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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:18,736 --> 00:00:20,736 MULTIPLE LANGUAGE SUBTITLE TRACKS FROM ITUNES (moviesbyrizzo uploads) 2 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,880 My grandmother told me that I should always look for the emerald. 3 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,400 Islam was her emerald. 4 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,400 Justice, love and unity. 5 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,200 She told me that the falsified prophetic statements in Islam, - 6 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:46,000 - the strict Shariah laws and macho Imams, - 7 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,320 - had swallowed the light from the emerald. 8 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,800 Only when all these are removed, will the emerald start to shine again, - 9 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,840 - and women's suffering will cease. 10 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,000 Grandma was so lucky. 11 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,200 She was free to say what she meant. 12 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,280 I am not free. 13 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,600 When I criticize Islam in the Muslim world, - 14 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,560 - I'm considered reform-minded and progressive. 15 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,240 When I criticize Islam in the West, my words will be used by - 16 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,560 - anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim groups. 17 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,000 I am fed up with living in such a prison. 18 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,240 He won't meet us if we don't cover our hair. 19 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,040 He wants no perfume or makeup. He even suggested niqabs. 20 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:05,360 I will be visiting a young Salafist, Sheikh Mahmoud Mekki, in Cairo. 21 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,800 His Islam is the exact opposite of my grandmother's. 22 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,120 Let's try and go inside. 23 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:20,040 The Salafists view themselves as the only correct interpreters of the Quran. 24 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,000 For them, all moderate Muslims are almost heretics. 25 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,920 The reason I agreed to this interview, 26 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:58,840 - was that it might be beneficial for people outside the Arab world. 27 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:07,320 Otherwise I would have insisted on having a male photographer or director. 28 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,760 How many times have you had a female photographer film you? 29 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,600 -Never. -Okay. 30 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,320 -I'm the first one? -Yes. 31 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,080 I want to tell you something: my wife, during our six years of marriage, 32 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:35,560 - has never once left the house to go shopping. 33 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:44,920 I do the shopping. She never goes out, except once every three or four months, with me. 34 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,920 She's happy? And you're happy? 35 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,880 -Yes. -Okay. 36 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,840 Oh, it's strawberry? 37 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,480 I will learn Arabic. I will. 38 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,400 -Insha'Allah -That's good. 39 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:15,200 If I came here without wearing a hijab... 40 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,720 Do you think you'd have treated me differently? 41 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,720 I am the same person. I have the same smile. So do you. 42 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,520 And we share the same religion. 43 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,720 Even I, a Sheikh, if a woman comes to me unveiled, 44 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,160 - I will have desire for her. This is my nature as a man. 45 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:46,240 If a woman wearing an Islamic dress, 46 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:52,880 - with her face, hair and body veiled, walks in front of a man, 47 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,560 - while another woman passes perfumed, wearing modern clothes, 48 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,000 - revealing parts of her hair and body, 49 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:06,080 - which one of the two would excite the man and tempt him into committing rape? 50 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:11,680 So what if the man has nothing to... 51 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,800 He's not going to rape any of them, because he's a good human being. 52 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,840 In that sense, I'm unsure what you're talking about. 53 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,640 You are denying man's natural instinct to desire women. 54 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:30,200 You can't understand this from your female point of view, 55 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,800 - whereas I can understand it because I am a man. 56 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,440 Gamal Al Banna also lives in Cairo. 57 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:54,360 He has been a target of Islamic extremists, because of his progressive ideas. 58 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,200 He is now 90 years old. 59 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:05,160 He has lived with constant death threats for several years. 60 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,600 His courage gives me hope. 61 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,840 His perspective helps me in my quest for the emerald I'm seeking. 62 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,600 The woman issue needs a real revolution - 63 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,880 - within the backward Islamic thought, which is far away - 64 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:33,720 - from the texts of the Quran, its spirit and the spirit of Islam in general. 65 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:50,000 It is difficult for Europeans, whether right or left, to understand Islam, 66 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:56,920 - because they can only judge it by one of two things: 67 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,280 Either by Muslims and their actions, or by the ideas of religious scholars. 68 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,520 Those are the Europeans' references. 69 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:12,840 Muslims' situation is shit, just as the German convert said: 70 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,880 I thank God that I became a Muslim before I saw Muslims." 71 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,040 The Islamic scholars' views are in fact against Islam. 72 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,040 As I said before, there came a time when - 73 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,560 - falsifying Hadiths (the Prophet's sayings), was considered a necessity - 74 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,080 - and even a virtue. And all the details (of Shariah) come from the Hadiths, 75 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,160 - as there are no details in the Quran itself. 76 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,560 The Quranic text came down for a purpose. This purpose is justice. 77 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,040 So if evolution has made this text unable to achieve justice anymore, 78 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,840 - then we have to change it. 79 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,600 Because the fundament is the goal of the text, not its letters. 80 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:16,800 Family mysteries have always caught my attention. 81 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:29,120 Gamal's older brother, Hassan Al Banna, was the founder of the Muslim Brothers, - 82 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:35,680 - and a leading inspirational force behind today's Islamic fundamentalism. 83 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:43,000 How come these brothers have chosen two so very different Islam? 84 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:54,000 I wonder if Europeans can understand the various faces of Islam, at all? 85 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,880 Last night I had a strange dream. 86 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:12,720 In the dream I sent a balloon to Allah, and put all my wonder into it. 87 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,680 Suddenly I saw a tent that looked like the Sufi tent - 88 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,080 - in my grandmother's stories. 89 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,200 Everything was there. 90 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,920 The past, the present and the future. 91 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:47,240 I had to find an emerald that could bring a new light to us women. 92 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,200 I was free to go wherever I wanted. 93 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:04,160 No one asked me if I had a valid residence permit or a valid passport. 94 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,880 There I saw our origins, Adam and Eve. 95 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,520 Playful, joyful and erotic. 96 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,720 I also wanted to join them. 97 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:32,160 Time almost stood still. 98 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,160 Eve took an apple, and asked me: 99 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,560 What is your religion? 100 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,320 Why didn't I tell Eve that I'm Muslim? 101 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,560 What kept me silent? 102 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:57,000 Somehow, I had lost my language. 103 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:10,480 I am a filmmaker with an accent, living in-betweenness; 104 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:16,000 Europe, Asia, Asia, Europe. 105 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,440 I live with images and dreams, which belong to two different continents, - 106 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:31,880 - and I tell stories in several broken hybrid languages. 107 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Don't let them build their houses on the mountain tops." 108 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:02,200 Don't let them send their daughters to the far-away land." 109 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,720 - Women are oppressed! 110 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,280 - Even if you sing: "don't let them harass mother's precious daughter", 111 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,360 - you don't hesitate to beat your beloved. They say that's what it says in the Quran. 112 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:27,080 - Honestly, mom, I don't know which story I'm going to choose in this film, 113 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,240 - because it's a very complex subject. 114 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,760 Your choice is different from mine, 115 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,840 - the woman wearing hijab has made another choice, but all of us share the same goal; 116 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,520 A better and more dignified life. 117 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,200 And what do we need to make our lives better? 118 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,920 - I have to find out. - All of us need to and have the right to be happy. 119 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,040 - Yes. - Of course, without stepping on anyone's toes. 120 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,080 - There is something I don't understand. 121 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,440 - What's that, Nefise? 122 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,440 - Why didn't you wish for a daughter? 123 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,400 I mean, why did you always wish for a son? And then I showed up! 124 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:18,440 - I wanted a boy because I knew how girls are oppressed in our society. 125 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,640 I thought of the social oppression towards women, psychologically as well. 126 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,800 And I thought that a daughter would be exposed to all of that, 127 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,880 - whereas a son would have no problems. 128 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,640 Look at our five fingers. They are very important. 129 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,760 - I have five pieces of advice for you. - Okay, tell me. 130 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,560 - #1 is to educate woman, 131 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,840 - and let her stand on her own feet, 132 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,520 - and understand herself better. 133 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,080 #2; let her make her own decision in marriage. If it fails, 134 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,360 - she should not be humiliated. - Okay. 135 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:02,080 - #3; regarding inheritance, 136 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,280 - daughters and sons should have equal rights. 137 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,720 #4 is women's career and work situation. 138 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,120 Women should have wage equality, and should not be harassed at work. 139 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,800 You know, the most important thing for me? 140 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,880 The most horrible of all? 141 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,400 - What? - Domestic violence. 142 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,160 - What kind of life have you had? 143 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,200 - My life? 144 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,800 - Let's talk about it. - Let's talk about it. 145 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,120 That's private. 146 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,520 My life? Let me tell you... 147 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,600 I was never oppressed by my family. 148 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,840 What have I done? I finished my education. 149 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,920 I went to medical school, to be a doctor. 150 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:04,880 I decided my marriage freely, and I also divorced by my own choice. 151 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,840 - And then? - I remarried and started a new family. 152 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,760 - I was never oppressed! - Okay, but did you have a happy life? 153 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,760 I think of my dream. 154 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,280 How can I find the emerald that can alleviate women's sufferings? 155 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,880 I travel from my biological mother to my literary mother, - 156 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,360 - the Egyptian feminist, psychiatrist and novelist, Nawal El Saadawi. 157 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,280 To walk with her in the streets of Cairo, just after her final exile, - 158 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,440 - is an art in and of itself. Everyone knows who she is. 159 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:07,400 Several times I had to clarify to the police why I had a film camera with me. 160 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,880 I said I made a movie about balloons. 161 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,520 It was okay. 162 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,880 Nawal El Saadawi is the queen of the progressives, and one of the - 163 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,480 - main opponents to the Islamic extremists. 164 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,400 She was one of the first who took up the theme - 165 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,160 - of women, sex and oppression in the Muslim world. 166 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,680 She knows the bitter taste of prison and exile. 167 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,760 Last year I met her in the literature festival in Molde. 168 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,120 There, I had the opportunity to read out a letter I had written to her. 169 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:53,480 I don't know how to begin. I'm one of your daughters you haven't met yet. 170 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,720 Your work has influenced me for many, many years. 171 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:04,240 The core of my work has never been based on hate against religiosity, - 172 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,760 - but based on a great will to change, interpret, - 173 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,880 - create, repair and inherit. 174 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,840 Which way shall I go, Nawal? 175 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,120 Which fights will be my priority? 176 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:27,400 Do I need to have a religious, sexual and cultural identity? 177 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,000 What if my identity becomes a hinder? 178 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,560 I'll put all my balloons all around Cairo. 179 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,840 -And I'll follow it to Turkey... -And Norway. 180 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,640 I wrote a letter to God when I was a child. 181 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,200 -I didn't know where to send it. -Maybe I know. 182 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,400 -You know his fax? -I read it in your play. 183 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,600 But I can't send a fax. I have to send an e-mail. 184 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,000 Maybe he doesn't have e-mail. 185 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,320 We need to in fact go to the root of the problem. 186 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,360 How do you go to the root? 187 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,120 By asking questions. What do you mean by that? 188 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,480 When a boy in his childhood learns at school - 189 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,400 - that he's better than his sister, - 190 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,240 - that he shall inherit the double of her, - 191 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,920 - that she should be veiled, and not he, and all that, - 192 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,400 - his conscience is killed. 193 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,840 His sense of justice is killed. So that's the problem. 194 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,280 I want real secularism. 195 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,600 I need a secular law and value system. 196 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,800 I don't want a family law based on religion. 197 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,840 It must be secular. 198 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,560 It's religious in Egypt. It's religious in many countries. 199 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,680 So your daughter and son will inherit differently? 200 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,360 According to the law, yes. Unless I change it myself. 201 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:28,920 And before I die, I divide my money equally, and that's what I did. 202 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,840 -So you can do that? -I did it in my lifetime. 203 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,080 Because I'm free. I own my money. 204 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:42,720 So I told my daughter and my son they'd both get an equal share. 205 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:48,640 I've done it in my lifetime. But if I die, the government - 206 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,640 - will give my daughter half of what my son gets. 207 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:01,920 Because when you ask me whether Islam allows feminism, - 208 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,800 - then I have to know what you mean by both. 209 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,600 Because everybody has a definition of feminism. 210 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:16,680 There are many forms of feminism, of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. 211 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,640 Every country, every group, interprets - 212 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,120 - religion, feminism and humanism according to their own interests. 213 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,760 If men are going to have this, I want to have it too. 214 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:37,520 I don't want to have this one. I want to have the same. Feminism is justice. 215 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,120 And what is Islam to you? 216 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,080 That's... 217 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Islam is... 218 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,920 I can't say it's justice. 219 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:04,000 I'm more attached to Muslim culture than to Christian culture. 220 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:11,200 Though I live in a Christian country, have a Christian husband, my kids... 221 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:16,200 -You're married to a Christian? -A Norwegian man. 222 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 And the thing is... 223 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,840 I'm very attached to Sufism, and I'm really attached to spirituality. 224 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,160 And I feel like my existence... 225 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,240 I feel like my existence is related to others. 226 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,080 -I need you to be myself. -Exactly. That is creativity. 227 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:56,200 So as I told you, you know, the existence in the culture - 228 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,600 - where I grew up... I don't need to say who I am. 229 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:07,080 Because we have so many hidden things that we can say. 230 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,840 So many small words we can use to in a way - 231 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,760 - tell our hidden stories to each other. 232 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,920 That's why your mother was unhappy. 233 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,680 My mother died young. She was unhappy. 234 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,360 It's true that women are unhappy - 235 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,600 - regardless whether they live in Oslo, Turkey or Egypt. 236 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,360 Whether they are poor or rich. Even rich women are unhappy. 237 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,840 Because it's the patriarchal system, you know. 238 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,120 So we are all in the same boat. 239 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,920 And we need to show that in films. 240 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:55,760 And the silence is also very strange. Many women I know... 241 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,520 In my family. 242 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,920 They are... Let's see... They have education. 243 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:11,520 They have economy, money. And they have good status. 244 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,760 But they have had domestic violence. 245 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:24,440 When these women, very strong women, doctors, lawyers, teachers, - 246 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,480 - when they experience violence, - 247 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,560 - they don't talk about it. 248 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,040 Because it's not nice to be a broken glass. 249 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,280 -You want to be, you know, proper. -You hide... 250 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,520 And you hide your broken self. 251 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,680 And they don't want me to talk about it, because... 252 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,640 It's not nice to be a broken glass. 253 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,360 -Yes, exactly. -It's not. 254 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,600 I love that. I love this expression, a broken glass. 255 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,720 But I feel I am a witness - 256 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:19,480 - to much sorrow and much unhappiness. 257 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,800 And I myself haven't experienced either domestic violence - 258 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,360 - or violence in society. I'm the lucky generation. 259 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:35,200 I feel kind of... I don't know... guilty that's I'm the one - 260 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,120 - who receives all the time. The one who receives and receives. 261 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,920 I want to give back. Through films and everything. 262 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:51,800 Talking about women's situation is also a very private thing for me. 263 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,480 But... 264 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,120 But it's difficult because they don't want to talk about it. 265 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,600 We have lost our true self. 266 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,840 Now, in those moments you were crying, you were the real one. 267 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,920 You brought your real self out. But we are afraid, you know? 268 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:19,920 The first fear in our lives is to be real, to bring out our real self. 269 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,400 -Yes. -That's it. 270 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,400 How can we bring it into films? 271 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,120 When I write a novel, I try to bring my real self. 272 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,840 -What is your real self? -Despite everything, - 273 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,120 - the one that is full of fears and tears. Fears and tears. 274 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,840 All my life, I've been getting rid of my fears. 275 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,040 Tell me about your fears. 276 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,000 What are you afraid of? 277 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,400 -Say it, say it! -Okay. 278 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:12,040 If I come from Istanbul and make a film about how women have suffered... 279 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,400 How my mother has suffered, my aunts have suffered. 280 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:22,200 I can make a film. I can be like a bulldozer, you know? 281 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,640 And I see myself... Oh my God. 282 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,200 And I see myself in Oslo. 283 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,080 And if I'm saying the same things... 284 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,120 Real things. Real criticism. 285 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,080 Then... If... 286 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,640 -Then it doesn't work. -I know. 287 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,680 This split in me makes me cry. 288 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,880 When a man marries a woman, 289 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,800 - he may later discover that she has flaws. 290 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,840 There are 3 solutions: 291 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,840 The first is to divorce her, 292 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,880 - which will destroy the home and harm the children; 293 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,840 The second is to stay with her while hating the situation; 294 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:38,040 The third is to marry a new wife without ruining the first marriage, 295 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:44,560 - and at the same time making it easier to accept his first wife's flaws by having another one. 296 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:52,760 And statistics prove that there are up to 7 times as many women in the world as there are men, 297 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,840 - so if I give only one woman to every man, I will have condemned millions of women - 298 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,840 - to remain unmarried. Is that the kind of justice the liberals want? 299 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:27,800 As a fundamental rule in Islam, a woman is seen as a precious jewel. 300 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,800 Thus I ask: if you have a jewel, 301 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,520 - will you leave it unprotected in the street, for anyone to grab, 302 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:44,200 - or will you keep it in a velvet box, and hide it from everyone except yourself, the owner of the jewel? 303 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,120 What's on a Muslim woman's mind when she meets a fireman? 304 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,280 Lust? 305 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,160 Well then, he must be protected. 306 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:05,440 What does a Muslim woman feel when she meets an officer? 307 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,880 Desire? 308 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120 He should be covered. 309 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:19,640 What makes a Muslim woman excited when she meets a carpenter? 310 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,840 His naked body? 311 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Sex? 312 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,840 He should be wrapped. 313 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:35,920 What's on a Muslim woman's mind when she meets a doctor? 314 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,880 Orgasm? 315 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,360 He must be hidden away. 316 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,840 We don't believe in hijab at all, 317 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,160 - but as for niqab, we see it as a stain of shame. 318 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:57,360 It is 100% unacceptable, because it erases a woman's personality, 319 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,400 - and paralyzes her freedom to work and to truly participate. 320 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,880 Even the glance the Salafists consider a sin, 321 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,120 - let alone intermingling or kissing! 322 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,760 The last fatwa that we recieved from Saudi Arabia - 323 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,600 - says that anyone who permits intermingling is a pimp! 324 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,080 Of course, their talk is just nonsense. 325 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:49,840 Polygamy in the Quran was allowed in order to limit polygamy, 326 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,800 - because polygamy was widespread among Arabs. 327 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,640 A man could marry 8 or even 10 women. 328 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,840 Islam wanted to resist that trend, 329 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,920 - so there came a very strange Quranic verse (4:3). 330 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,480 This verse has one condition at the beginning and another at the end, 331 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,920 - for polygamy to be permissable. 332 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,640 Muslims have neither understood the first nor the second condition; 333 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,800 they just kept marrying! 334 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,800 The only part they understood form the verse was Marry women of your choice, 2, 3, or 4. 335 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,920 A "polytheist", in the Quran, referred to the Arabs who worshipped idols - 336 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,000 - and were the enemies of Islam. 337 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,400 There was always a war going on against them. 338 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:58,400 So, what is prohibited in Islam is not that a Muslim woman marries a Jew or a Christian, 339 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,000 - but that she marries a polytheist. 340 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,760 However, we can no longer say - 341 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,000 - that today's Buddhists, for example, or the adherents of a Chinese religion - 342 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:26,520 - are polytheists like the polytheists back in the time when Islam first came into being. 343 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,440 Maybe in the past, a woman was not autonomous, 344 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,560 - and was too shy to speak out when a suitor proposed. 345 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:42,920 Nowadays, women aren't shy at all, thanks God! 346 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,840 She has the right to decide freely about marriage, 347 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,840 - without needing the consent of any "guardian". 348 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:58,880 We also believe that divorce should be validated in the same way as marriage, 349 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,160 - that is through mutual consent. 350 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,880 But that a man monopolizes the right to instant divorce, 351 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,080 - just by saying "you are divorced!" - 352 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,920 - this should have no value at all. 353 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,720 Even if he keeps saying the words all day and night, it is pure nonsense! 354 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:34,480 I can give you an example of the difference between the Quran and Muslims' conceptions: 355 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:43,840 If a Muslim hears a rumor about his wife betraying him, 356 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,600 - he will grab a knife and kill her, exclaiming "my honor!" 357 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,520 The Quran is totally different. 358 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,440 In the Quran, even if a man saw with his own eyes - 359 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,240 - his wife in bed with another man, 360 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,800 - he couldn't do anything to her. 361 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,560 Why? Because there are no witnesses. 362 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,880 There are three crimes for which execution is instituted: 363 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,160 if a man or a woman leaves Islam, 364 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:58,600 - commits adultery or commits murder. 365 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,920 But can a Muslim woman marry a Christian man? 366 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,520 The Prophet, praise be upon him, said whoever changes his religion, kill him! 367 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:15,240 The case is not as most people think, that there is an absolute freedom of faith. 368 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:19,400 So when a Muslim woman marries a non-Muslim, 369 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,080 - she may be influenced by his religion and may leave Islam. 370 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,440 And if she leaves her religion, it would be obligatory for us Muslims - 371 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,480 - (via the Islamic state) to kill her for apostasy. 372 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,600 This issue has harmful consequences in both respects: 373 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:42,240 In this life, an apostate should be killed, and in the next, he/she will burn in Hell. 374 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,920 Let there be no compulsion in religion. 375 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,520 This is written in the Quran. 376 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:16,400 I don't know how one can interpret this as a justification for violence and hatred. 377 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,920 I hope that my children, in the future, through their marriages and their lives, 378 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:29,640 - will bring new religions, new cultures and new languages to our family. 379 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,840 It isn't just the fundamentalists, but also the media - 380 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:57,000 - which is obsessed with the fall and misery of Muslim women. 381 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,760 The world is fixated on statistics! 382 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,000 Now it's my turn to be measured. 383 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,640 My sexual oppression level is 52. 384 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,760 My cultural oppression measures 78. 385 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,000 My longing for freedom increases when I see the progressive Muslims - 386 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,480 who want to create a new democratic Islam and change women's oppression - 387 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,240 - in this patriarchal culture. 388 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,880 This demonstration is against the violence and aggression. 389 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,800 The majority of Muslims need to be aware - 390 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,840 - that silence can give a wrong impression - 391 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,680 - of supporting those who do violence in the name of Islam. 392 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,400 I like your balloon to God. It's like my letter to God. 393 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:50,680 When I was a child, I was very furious. So I went to my room - 394 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:56,000 - and wrote a letter to God. I told him, "Dear God." 395 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,800 My grandmother told me that you are justice." 396 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:07,080 But now I face injustice in the family, in your name." 397 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:13,080 Because they preferred my brother, though I am much better in school." 398 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:19,000 Because he is a boy. They say you said so. Did you say that?" 399 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,280 Because if you prefer boys to girls, you are unjust," - 400 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,360 - "and I am not ready to believe in you." 401 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,440 I feel that my God is in me. 402 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,480 And God... In Turkish, we don't have "she" and "he". 403 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:42,880 So my God is sitting inside me, but without any gender, genderless. 404 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,800 And God moves in my body, and this is how I feel it protects me. 405 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,200 You must explain what you mean by God in your body. 406 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,520 Is it your liver, your spleen? 407 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,920 -Your uterus? What's in your body? -It's everything. 408 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,760 -It's in your mind. -My brain. My imagination. 409 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,840 It's the idea, yes. Imagine the idea of God. 410 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000 The idea of justice. 411 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,840 The word of God in the Old Testament, The New Testament, the Quran, - 412 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,240 - the word of God is not clear. 413 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:29,360 One needs human beings to clarify the word of God. 414 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,840 My next destination is Turkey. 415 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,480 I will film a seminar where, for the first time in history, - 416 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,000 - will be trained about women's rights and violence against women. 417 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,680 This is just amazing! 418 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,120 All the Imams in Turkey will take this course. 419 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:05,440 - When did you start giving courses to Imams? - We have been working on it for two years. 420 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,840 - The issue of violence towards women is a very touchy subject. 421 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:16,400 I think what you're doing is very important, 422 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:22,640 - but there are still groups in Turkey where men legitimize beating their wives, 423 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,800 - because they see themselves as masters of the household. 424 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,160 Imams have immense importance in the shaping of the perception - 425 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,200 - of what is right and what is wrong. 426 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,200 And still, many men think they can beat women in the name of Allah. 427 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,200 So absurd. 428 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,280 - We Imams have incredible power. 429 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,880 A woman came to me, and thought that the domestic violence she was suffering, 430 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,640 - was her payment to God, and was meant to happen. 431 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,000 She said: "it's true, my husband beats me, but if I'm patient," 432 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,760 - I will earn my place in heaven. 433 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,280 I don't advise her to contact the police, but I enlighten her. 434 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,920 She says: "my husband prays five times a day." 435 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,480 I find him at work and drink tea with him. 436 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,280 I tell him: "if you beat your wife ever again, I will publically disgrace you," 437 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,840 - which is easy in a small community. 438 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:24,800 - But what if he tells you to stay out of his business? - Oh, he wouldn't dare! 439 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,480 - Our ways of understanding Islam might be different. 440 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,240 I don't think I need to use hijab in order to call myself a Muslim. 441 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:45,200 - In my understanding, you don't need to use hijab either. 442 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,840 I cover myself out of personal choice, 443 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,840 - but you are just as free to be a Muslim and still wear a bathing suit. 444 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:08,040 - A Salafist sheikh from Egypt, told me that a Muslim woman in an interfaith marriage, 445 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:12,720 - can be killed if she leaves Islam. 446 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:20,000 - It has nothing to do with Islam. It shows how his ideas are associated with violence. 447 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,160 The writer of the Koran is Allah. 448 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,760 He has spoken once before, now he is silent. 449 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,840 Who is talking now? We are talking. 450 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:35,920 Nobody can speak on Allah's behalf. 451 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:59,280 - Even if a woman won't admit she's being physically abused, 452 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,720 - you are like doctors, 453 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,000 - who look at her bruises, 454 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,840 - and determine when and how they occurred. 455 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,800 You have that same ability to discover such things, 456 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,720 - only you are doctors of the soul. 457 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,240 - Do we have any examples of Mohammed beating his wives? 458 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:28,480 Isn't it about time we found a new translation for the word "beat"? 459 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,640 - Your question is very good. 460 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,600 Why do we create this distance between us and violence? 461 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:47,600 Even though we all seem to agree inside this room, 462 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,800 - our male sub-consciousness will always be in us. 463 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:57,840 As an Imam, I don't know if I'm able to see this issue objectively, 464 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,040 - without the influence of customs and traditions. 465 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,080 - It's very simple; we raise our daughters and sons alike. 466 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,920 Now I've gotten reactions from some Imams, 467 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,640 - who think that boys should be raised as warriors. 468 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,600 I told them that I have two sons, and I don't want any of them to be warriors. 469 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,400 When the Imams speak about a new interpretation of the Quran, - 470 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,560 - it triggers my imagination. 471 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,840 In the Quran it says: if your wife is disobedient, - 472 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,160 - you should first talk to her, then throw her out of bed, - 473 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:41,560 - and if she is still not obedient, you should beat her. 474 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,160 But what is the instruction for women? 475 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:56,000 What should a Muslim woman do if her husband isn't obedient? 476 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,720 First of all, she should talk to him. 477 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:21,560 Then, she should throw him out of her bed. 478 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,040 No sex for you, darling. 479 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,800 And finally, she should beat him. 480 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,640 Or should we find a new interpretation of the word "beat"? 481 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:57,080 Islam is not the only religion struggling with its views on women. 482 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:04,040 Islam, Christianity and Judaism share the same origin: Abraham. 483 00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:08,920 And these 3 religions also have in common their belief in only one God. 484 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,400 And they all have a history of the oppression of women. 485 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:20,000 I wish the women of these 3 religions would talk together more. 486 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,800 We have scriptures - 487 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:29,160 - that tell us to shut up and hide, in a way. 488 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,400 Christianity tells us that women should be silent. 489 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,840 It's Paul, isn't it? 490 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,280 He's particularly good at that, isn't he? 491 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:46,560 The question that remained, was why this God, neither male nor female, - 492 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,760 - should speak to empower men? 493 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,840 Judaism separates women and men in prayer. 494 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,000 That can take a variety of forms. 495 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,800 Traditionally, if you go into older synagogues in Europe, - 496 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,800 - you'll find balconies. The women were meant to be on balconies. 497 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:15,120 Behind latticework or some sort of... partition of some description. 498 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:21,400 It was thought that men were unable to pray if they could see women. 499 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,120 I find that line of reasoning - 500 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,840 - oppressive to women's spirituality and demeaning to men. 501 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:34,520 Is having female religious leaders important to prevent violence? 502 00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:41,000 I don't romanticize women. Women are not necessarily better than men. 503 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,920 Women do some things differently. Call attention to other perspectives. 504 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:52,920 That's absolutely a responsibility. The Muslim reading of the Quran - 505 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,040 - is that there's complete equality in the religious domain. 506 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,240 But women are inferior in society, - 507 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,680 - which strikes me as a really incoherent argument. It's like: 508 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,680 So women and men are equal before God," - 509 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,800 - "but unequal in the eyes of men?" How did we get there? 510 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,680 If I'm in Pakistan, my awareness, intelligence and knowledge - 511 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,920 - counts for nothing. 512 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,680 Because the system is already centered on males. 513 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,680 Even to speak as a Muslim woman, - 514 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,800 - an interpreter of the Quran, is like, "Who are you?" 515 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:44,400 Asma Barlas is one of the most important contemporary female interpreters of Islam. 516 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,800 For hundreds of years, there have been only men - 517 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,800 - who have told us how the Quran should be interpreted. 518 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:58,040 Now is the time to hear how women read the text. 519 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,000 You know, I first found you on the Internet. 520 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,640 I was goggling Muslim feminists. 521 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,280 Even though you don't call yourself a feminist. Why? 522 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,000 Well, I think... 523 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:19,160 Once you use that label, many other conversations get shut down. 524 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:25,160 My country was colonized by Britain. It was disturbing to see that, even - 525 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,920 - among modern feminists, there's this notion of rescuing the other. 526 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:36,240 And for many Western feminists, Muslim women are the other. 527 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:43,680 A long time ago, through orientalism, Muslim women were described as nude. 528 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:51,640 All the Turkish harems, the theme of all the famous orientalists. 529 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:58,480 All those women lolling around, semi- naked in Turkish baths and hamams. 530 00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,440 And they always have this style. 531 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,720 That was the other. European notions have also changed. 532 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:11,360 Western feminists love this, because it's the exact opposite of them. 533 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,520 They associate freedom with nudity. 534 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:18,920 But historically only slaves were denied clothing. 535 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,840 It's always, "Muslim women are helpless, who shall rescue them?" 536 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,920 Feminists? The West? 537 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:33,400 Anyone can call themselves feminists now, even Bush and his wife. 538 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,440 They use women to justify war. 539 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:41,560 I also want to speak directly to Muslims worldwide. 540 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,080 We respect your faith. 541 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,560 But we condemn the Taliban regime! 542 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:06,040 If I understand you correctly, you say no to some of the hadiths. 543 00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:12,360 I say no to all the hadiths which are contrary to the Quran or undercut it. 544 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,800 We cannot attribute something to the Prophet that would undermine him. 545 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,800 Which runs contrary to his methods. 546 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,520 It's simple. Anyone could figure it out. 547 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:38,680 The parts of the Quran that describe women's relationship to God, - 548 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:45,840 - have mostly been stamped out of the scripture, usually through the law. 549 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,920 Much of it is done through secondary religious texts. 550 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:56,160 -And certain changes need to happen. -So we need to have reform in Islam? 551 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:02,240 If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be reading the Quran as a text - 552 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,920 - with multiple possibilities. 553 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,920 So why do we continue to make bad choices? Give me one good reason. 554 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,920 They claim it's in the Quran. Then say it's in the hadiths. 555 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:22,120 You say, "Why accept hadiths that contradict the word of God?" 556 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:27,520 Then they say it's in the Sharia or the Sunnah. They keep evading you. 557 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,840 Just like you have a particular understanding and relationship - 558 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,760 - to Islam through your grandma, I have a relationship to Islam - 559 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,720 - through my understanding of the scripture. 560 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,840 This is grandmother again. 561 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,280 -My goodness! -And this is her. 562 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,000 You were pretty serious. 563 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,000 And it was actually she who taught me how to be a good Muslim. 564 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:12,000 Sharia is a human interpretation of provisions in the Quran - 565 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:18,040 - to make laws out of it. It's not a law book, but a scripture. 566 00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:22,600 But many people do that. Many nations do that. 567 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:28,360 And in many Islamic nations they use the Quran as Sharia, as a law book. 568 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:53,080 We should see which verses of the Quran would be different now. 569 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,040 Taking the same meaning without the institution is foolish. 570 00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:03,760 So it means that, in that sense, there are some verses in the Quran... 571 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,800 I don't mean we can freeze them, but read them as a historical fact. 572 00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,680 Yes. 573 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,920 Imagine that the story goes like this: 574 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,720 Once upon a time, there were 575 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,400 One of them had a cross, another a Star of David - 576 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,800 - and the third had a crescent. 577 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,200 They gathered around an apple tree - 578 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,720 - that had once introduced the misery in the world. 579 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,840 These 3 religious sisters wanted new interpretations - 580 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,640 - of the sacred writings. 581 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:22,280 Women's lives would no longer be characterized by suffering and violence, 582 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,440 - but by freedom and love. 583 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:36,640 Such a religion would give space to women, and also to me. 584 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,280 I had a dream that I sent a balloon to Allah. 585 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,980 Now I look forward to getting an answer. 52281

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