Original subtitles

Awesome. Can everyone see that now? Is that better?

Okay, awesome.

Minimize that yeah so it's just literally

like Cubase distortion going into it and fab filter taking out the lows.

I'll explain that in a second.

But yeah, naturally.

This just goes back on the removal thing, right, because the pluck synth at the

bottom has the beefier bottom end.

So I just decided that that needed to

come through yeah.

So that's a, that's a very, that's

definitely the serum one.

That's there's a Steve Aoki serum thing

somewhere that I had found.

So that's where that base would have come

from. But I think I really turned up the slack

delay on that as well.

But the reason that the loads are out of

this is because I wanted the energy to come out of this one so that they kind of

work as one element.

Oh, that's so clean.

So that's kinda how that works.

What is that lead sound that you used?

That is a a woodblock thingy that acts.

This part actually came from Justin.

Wow, it's a woodblock sound.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It almost sounds like a bird.

Hey, it should almost take like

woodpecker. Yeah, yeah.

Like that yeah and together that just like sort of like makes that whole

section yeah wow.

And then Tim, can I ask you cuz, OK, I'm

hearing all of this stuff and definitely like every single sound is so good, you

know? And it's definitely kind of minimal than

most of the tracks that we hear in KPOP.

But every single sound has like its

meaning, its character.

Can you just tell us a little bit on how

you do that, like maybe some of your tips or the way you think about sounds?

Because it's definitely not.

Very common. This is.

I love every sound that you put into this section.

Thank you.

Yeah, I guess like sound design.

It's really funny you say this cuz I have a really weird opinion about this.

I always start making parts with a really blank sound.

So if it's like a lead hook or something then you know the default patch in masses

yeah and it's like that sizzly like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like if it's a lead hook or something I will make the part on that sound right or

if it's like gonna be something keys based.

I'll start with either like a piano or like a pluck bell thing.

The reason you play first.

Yeah, I'll I'll sort of like figure out

what the part should be first right because and my I guess my psychology

behind that is once you.

Like what you you want to get attached to

the part and not the sound itself, if that makes sense.

Because then you can sit down for like you can spend 30 hours finding the right

sound. You know what I mean?

Exactly but then like if you start off with a really cool sound, sometimes

you'll just really enjoy the sound and not necessarily the part musically.

So like starting sometimes with like a more jarring sound kind of helps you.

Something that you find something you actually grow.

Yeah, you you get attached to.

But then in certain other scenarios which

I'll get to as well, it's really helpful to let a sound I guess like inspire you

to do something like actually that's probably a really good part to to, to

mention this. So this is one of my favorite things

about I guess the current world of producing that we have, right, because we

have things like splice and we have things like like companies, people like

Kashmir who are constantly.

Creating, like, really amazing resources

to make music with.

And I think there's a certain element to

that in which you're able to sort of make anything your own, right?

Yeah so there's this thing that goes in this song.

I think this is the original.

Let me just double check.

That's too short to be it.

It's not helpful.

Let me, I'm gonna find it and then import it maybe on here somewhere.

I like that you're doing this 'cause I was gonna ask about this lead sound to

the vocal chop sounding one.

Is that the one you're looking for right

now? yeah.

Which is hilarious because I just realized I could just copy and paste the

title, which would be so much easier.

Okay, awesome.

So this is I guess the opposite of what I was just saying in the sense that you

like sometimes you'll you'll want to create something from an existing sound

to be inspired when you're stuck.

So you want to like I would do like

arrangement stuff and figure out.

I guess your your chord progression and

stuff like that with sort of like blank sounds and stuff like that.

But when you when you're trying to find things that grab people it's often really

easy like a lot easier to manipulate things.

So this thing here which runs through like majority of the song and in the like

post section it turns up like this.

So that came from this, which is a Taylor

parks sample called Taylor Parks vocal ad Lib Beautiful.

So wait, this was from the top liner or was it from splice?

No so this is from splice.

So Taylor Parks, who's an incredible

songwriter and top liner and producer, has a splice pack, right?

So I was just like, I was stuck.

There was a whole bunch of different

plucky things that I hated about the the hook at the time.

So I'd like gotten rid of all of that stuff and then just loaded in this,

right. And essentially chopped it to.

So this is how the actual sample sounds.

No way beautiful, no, which essentially

just eventually turned into.

I think this is probably the earlier

iteration of it, which is like essentially like there's a bend in the

word beautiful. And it's just like, you just have to do

it like, I don't know like you just do you have the process of how you did it or

you done that? I was, I was honestly, I was looking for

it all night, but I have a feeling this one was manually chopped, which again

Cubase. Everyone should go to Cubase.

So do that.

Became super sampler in Cubase or so I'll

use a sampler.

There's certain ones where there's

different transients for different parts of the melody.

Which I I guess with the sampler allows you to sort of cut each transient as a

new note on your keyboard and do that.

I have a strong feeling with this one

that I've mapped that beautiful tempo to the song one.

Ok, let me just drag and zoom thing out of the way again, I have a strong feeling

with this one.

I've just hit musical mode on this right

is that already? My qubit just has so many functions.

Sorry, Cuba.

Just have so many functions.

Like a lot of the things that you're doing, like, I don't even do, you know?

But yeah, right.

But other people tell me that too, like,

oh, how'd you do that? I was like, what do you mean this size?

Yeah i'm still learning to be completely efficient with with Cubase totally me

too. Like, there's just so much, so many

options. I actually won't yeah because you

essentially have like, we just duplicated that so we can get the back end of this.

But essentially, with this sample in particular, you had the first main bend

here, even that it's more like I definitely had the tea out of the beauty

as well, yeah.

Yeah I honestly like, I I won't I like

won't be able to show you exactly because I don't have the like first chop version

of it. But it's like you'll hear like the band

of so anything with the R sort of thing is the full part of it and the you let

you just I guess like the way that you would think about it is you just like

listen to the actual.

Sample and find.

Cuz the reason we use the sample right is that that's gonna have more like Taylor

Park's voice is gonna have so much more life than any synth that I could sort of

load up right? Yeah this sounds amazing.

Do you have the processing for the sound? The actual chain?

yeah. Yeah, I think that should be this one here yeah.

There we go sorry sorry, I didn't realize that that's what you were asking.

So there's this one, which is.

So this is in its most natural chopped

form that would have been hybrided, and because there's already so much reverb on

the sample itself every time you like.

Slice Edit the silences.

It almost feels like a slap delay, like it almost adds a bit of like air to it

without having like a big reverb.

Yeah, first bit was vocal synth, which is

this patch that I really like for this sort of stuff.

I think it's that one.

No, it's it's not that one at all.

It's a completely different one.

Yeah, it's got like.

It's the Poly box and then it's the vocoder, which is really funny cuz I

actually didn't realize I'd used the delay directly out of vocal syns.

It's not something that I usually do.

I know, right?

That's and then it's kind of fresh Cubase distortion.

Which is a lot of damage, but it helps it cut through in the two.

Plug in is all you needed to do this.

That's awesome.

Honestly, even me now probably would have done that instead, to be honest.

Like this, there was way too much high end out of that.

Yeah, I could have saved myself a lot of time fixing that up if I didn't have that

much. It's a top end on there, but yeah, so

that's like essentially like so from the chop, which then gets further put into

this plugin pull rc twenty, which I used way too much yet again, me too rc.

Twenty yeah, we can't do anything about it.

It's just so good.

There's a noise thing to sort of like

emulate a bit of like tape stuff and then the chorus wobble, which helps it feel

wider because of, I guess, like how Chorus works.

So this is, I believe, the one that goes into the verse, so that's so a lot more

understated, whereas this one would have a different sort of treatment because

it's supposed to cut through a bit more yeah and then I just removed the stuff

that I created when I put the distortion on question.

Tim, did you think about that first and then you made a vocal chop out of it?

Or were you just playing around with the sample and then you came up with the,

the, the melody line being completely honest with you like.

I what what would have happened with that scenario because I remember because that

was the final piece, the whole song was done at that point and I like the whole

track of the side of stuff that I had was done at that point.

And I didn't have like your central like moment I guess.

Yeah, something that leads, but that's the only part because it sounds like the

that that vocal chop is leading the song.

But that was the last thing you added for

flavor. That was literally the last thing I

added. And then in terms of its place in the

song, got completely replaced once Josephine had sent this one through.

Because the moment she sent that through, I was like, OK, that's the hook of the

song, that I can turn all of these instances down.

But essentially what would have happened was I would have loaded it in and I would

have like, just like, listened to, like the fact that.

You, you essentially have like 3 syllables out of that beautiful thing,

right? You've got the the first band, you've got

the TI syllable, which is the like short staccato note, and then the word full,

which lasts a little bit longer, but it's a straight note.

And then from hearing that, I would have just like I guess, tried to hum certain

things and then try and like cut it together from there.

But it was definitely inspired from hearing that initial sample, if that

makes any sense.

Yeah, that's definitely like a really

important part of that.

And then, yeah, like, and this stuff

again, like, the song wouldn't be the same without that thing, yeah.

And then here I've just realized there's a lot of like brassy, stringy stuff that

I haven't addressed.

It's like, which I've actually, I've

never realized how disorientating that is without drums.

But essentially you've got like the brass accenting the section, which is a fairly,

fairly itsy thing to do and then you've got like this counter string thing which

essentially. The way that it's positioned sort of

offsets momentum, right? So you've got your because that brass

thing follows the kick.

You have like an uneven grouping, which

makes people hopefully want to move.

Actually Justin had added more to, so

Justin added a brass one yeah and then in there ohh can you please just solo the

drums? I I hear some really cool sounds ear

candy, but it's kind of like spooky like ohh that'll be the yeah the snare.

Yeah that'll be like that almost.

Ohh, which one?

Sorry, it sounds it has like a snare top end.

I think that's the one that one the the the SNARE vocal, Unruh snare vocal.

Is that the one no.

Up, up, up the Unruh snare vocal?

Yeah is that ohh yeah.

You're you're you are literally teaching

me more about my track than than I know.

Ohh yeah yeah yeah yeah without that it

would have sounded so different yeah wow.

I think I would have found that during

the time of like working on like a lot of Espers stuff.

I think that's actually where that would have been, I guess like in my library

from. Well, there's that.

And there's also just like random different things that you'll find and

some things just don't sound like they're supposed to work.

Like it would be very easy to sit here and go like like I'm going to have, I'm

going to have no use for this, right, because it's so like it's both percussive

and has a lot of like low end residents.

Like if I actually just like take all of

this off, like that's a fairly like deep.

Like almost like muddy, sort of like loop

there and then you sort of like just go through and figure out how it would then

fit in with your song, right? Like if I put all of that back on, which

is essentially this stuff that's cutting low end out, there is, man, you're always

using the best distortion.

That's crazy.

Yeah, actually actually actually use some of that too.

Like I'm using a lot of different distortion, but I didn't use the Cubase

one. Well, the Cubase ones are actually really

good for certain things.

And then I find myself also using

radiator and little radiator a lot now from sound toys, which are also both like

staples yeah and again rc twenty just making it feel a little bit wider because

of the chorus and how well that works.

It seems like the way you do sound

designing is very intentional, like.

You have a specific sound in mind in your

head already.

And then like, I don't know, am I right?

Do you do you do that probably half and half.

I think there's, there's an element of the first for like the first.

I would say 40 % of the journey is just like figuring out what you want to do and

like sort of what is coming out of you.

And then the next 40 % of the journey is

sort of like finding other inspiring things that maybe you haven't thought of.

Yeah, exactly.

The happy access is actually probably the

perfect way to put that because you that's the part of it that's like, I

think as a creator, the most scary because you just never know.

I always have this conversation with friends where it's like, it's crazy with

what we do, right? Because if we like make something

specifically today as opposed to tomorrow or the day before, like.

Our decision our little micro decisions to go.

I'm going to work on this now as opposed to I'm going to wait until working on it

later make such a huge impact on what the actual idea becomes.

I know right if you wait like a multi hours, exactly exactly.

There's different versions of you somewhere else that have done the

complete opposite of what you've just done.

Yeah but even that like weird pong sample thing like together makes sense.

Because that it's pretty boring, right? That's huge yeah.

But it started off as a sample that's like almost purely low end yeah.

But like, I guess the motivation for that as soon as I heard that sample would have

been how, like, you'll hear the timing of the little, like the, I guess, the

metallic taps. Yeah, yeah. And it just creates like

momentum and percussive elements that I think would be really hard to achieve

like actually putting them in.

So it's I always actually, yeah when I'm

looking for like things to manipulate, I'm always looking for like same reason

why I would have gone with that original Taylor parks sample to chop up.

There's there's a life to it that I can't access myself with a computer and I think

it's that.

Especially with Kpop, it's like, it's

like super important to have that like blend where you have like you're really

more organic elements and you're really sort of like on the grid elements, if

that makes sense yeah wow, Tim, I was gonna say it's already six thirty.

Five, here ah perfect, man.

I, I.

I can keep you here all day listening through this stuff because it's like so

informative, informative are you have you like taught before and stuff too, because

like it feels like you're a really good teacher too.

I've never taught before but I got really excited about this idea because I like, I

think there's just so much things that can be shared like like all of this stuff

for example is like really exciting to me.

So like I guess being able to.

Show people and talk about it is super

exciting. Like I don't know if that makes any sense

but it's it's like it's it's like when you when when when we jumped on the zoom

before everyone got here and you're like oh you're on Cubase.

Like it's that excitement because we all we're all here because we love doing this

thing right.

Yeah like I yeah I don't know if I'd be a

a good teacher but I I I definitely just love talking about it with peers and

friends and just everyone.

Wow man but.

I mean, personally, I'm just very like speechless, like like seeing your session

and all the sounds that I I hearing, all the details that you've done and some of

the things that you're talking about has been really like a different approach

than how I would usually do it.

And, you know, every musician is

different and the way they express creativity so different, but it really

seems like. You have such a good feel for music, but

also for like the love for music is really felt in in your music.

And I love that.

It's just very inspiring because it

doesn't sound like someone who just had to slap together a song or had to do it

for a living.

It just sounded like you actually really

enjoyed manipulating sound, creating different.

Organic creative elements to make it inspiring for for you and for the

audience. It's really it's really wonderful to see

thank you. Like yeah I just there's there's just a

whole universe of sounds yet to be made which you guys all get to sort of do.

So that's yeah that's the best part.

Yeah like nothing nothing gets better

than that I think for me anyway like.

Yeah, you can just like every, especially

with K pop, you are quite literally limitless with sort of what you sort of

want to create.

And there's like over 3030 of you in

here. So like all of you are going to have

something different to bring to the table, if that makes any sense yeah.

And everybody's from different parts of the world is the things that they can

bring is is so original, you know, it can be really original as long as we don't

think in this.

In this box of just kpop of what we heard

from KPOP and it seems like that's what you're doing, you're not like putting

yourself in the KPOP box, but but you're trying to do something that inspires you,

something that is original to you.

Yeah, like I think like, I think that's a

really important element to maintain because that way you're always just

excited about doing what you're doing.

Therefore you're gonna be working on

something that you find really cool and exciting.

Yeah, like it.

Like KPOP, at the end of the day, as long

as you're able to do choreo to it and as long as it has a specific amount of

energy, like you can do most things, that's really not an exaggeration.

Yeah, like, it's even like, and the more you start to collaborate with other

people and the more that you start to hear work from other people, you start to

hear all these things of like.

I would have never thought of doing that

or I would have never thought of things that way.

There's just so much perspective there, which is really awesome.

You know, if it's OK with you, we would love to just take few questions, but I

know you're really busy, so we want to honor the time too.

Are you OK with few questions from the take it as many questions, whatever,

whatever questions are there.

Thank you.

Ok, guys, if you have questions, raise your hands.

And we'll take some questions from you guys.

Should I stop the sharing? Yeah, can you start the sharing?

All right.

Let's start with you, Corey cool yeah,

thanks a lot again, Tim, that was really, really great.

And I wanted to ask you how you first got into the industry or like how you started

to make contacts in the industry to start to work in Cape I?

So after yeah, after I started making like pop music a little while, it's it's

really weird how this happens, all right.

And this is I could probably tie this

into like a more important lesson, right? That and that being you don't know, like

you want to approach relationship building as actual relationship building

in the sense that it can't be a sense of sort of like talking to someone with a

specific purpose, right.

Like if you think about any other

relationship your life if someone tried to approach.

Having that relationship with you for a specific purpose it it, it, it doesn't

work right. So it's always about sort of like

building a community of people around you sort of thing, right?

Because I got into songwriting and and producing because I was, I had just

finished up on like the last band project that I was in and I had like a solo album

worth of pop songs that I wanted to release, but I lived in Australia and

like. Pop music is one of those things where

you kind of have to have a budget behind it.

So I'm like I need a platform of some sort.

So I'd like emailed the management of there's an electronic duo from Perth

called Slumberjack who? Yeah and then their manager just so

happened to give me a shot by setting me up with a meeting with them again as a

singer of this like project that I hadn't launched yet, and then in conversation

with them and sharing demos with them.

They looped me in with the person that

eventually became my manager for the first two to three years of my career as

a songwriter, and that's sort of where those relationships came from.

So again, it's like a whole bunch of accidental things to sort of bring that

together. But since then, like same thing like

where I meet moonji and other people similar to moonji sort of just comes from

like your rapport with people and being like.

Creating genuine friendships, right, which is actually really nice to be a

part of. Like, yeah, it's, it's nice to know that

there's like such a big cohort of people out there that just like, enjoy having

these kinds of conversations.

Like, yeah, it makes it a lot less

sterile, I think.

If that helps, yeah.

But just always attempting to reach out to people and stuff like that.

But it doesn't always have to immediately result in anything, just like.

Chatting and sort of like sharing thoughts and ideas around the world.

Because, again, like, I do my sessions at this point based on people's energy and

yeah. And I said that from the beginning as

like the most important thing to keep you sane cool thank you.

Absolutely, shania.

Hi, Tim, thank you so much.

I had a question about if you were to go back to earlier on in your journey as

producer and specifically Kpop producer, what do you wish that you would have

spent more time in like earlier like knowing what you know now, what would you

have focused on if you told your kind of earlier producer self?

That's a really good question also.

Also side note, I was laughing at the

start cuz I just realized that cuz you had said hand like put your hand up.

I didn't realize that that was a zoom thing like you could.

I know there's a button that puts your hand up.

It's so useful I lost it.

Told previous producer self.

Yeah that's a wild one.

Like I guess the example would be like.

I wish.

I like spent more time creating like a

track a day, or like more time on chord progressions, or just throwing random

stuff on there.

Yeah, it's really funny, right?

Like, I almost think that.

Like, I almost wish that I spent less

time stressing about outcomes.

And you'll find that like the more you

get into it, the more you like because at the end of the day I think having a like

a relative amount of self-awareness allows you to make those decisions of

like I need to upskill this side of my journey, I need to upskill this side of

my journey but the I guess the the stress mindset of certain aspects or like the.

Oh, I'm not aware that I hoped that I would be yet or like my productions

aren't where I hope that that like all of that time really doesn't help.

And I think as you get deeper and deeper it's it's super important to sort of

learn to like phase that out because that can be really like unproductive a lot of

the times. But if I had to pick something to that I

would have spent more time on and I've said this from the very beginning is is

playing piano like yeah I wish that like as.

An 8 year old kid I had like picked like sat on the piano instead of like picked

up guitar just because of how easily translatable it is over to like a door.

But yeah, I would say like more importantly than the upskilling side

though is is sort of like knowing within myself at the time that the things that

are going to happen will just happen irrespectively and I just got to really

enjoy the process of doing it.

Because at the end of the day, if it ends

up becoming a stressful process, you'll look back in two years time and not

really wanna keep going.

If that makes any sense yeah it burns you

out yeah.

Thank you so much for that perspective.

I think it's super relatable.

I hope it was helpful.

Like Moonji and I, we were talking today for like an hour.

We're like, cuz like.

Because you know what we have our our

team UMP members and we also have UMP trainees who are who, whom.

We are like training them to become part of our team, the professional team.

But the but the thing that we always discussed about is it feels like whenever

we have like a that whenever we give them deadline or like a lead or some kind of

project or assignment like it's.

Inevitably, like, it feels like people

are putting a lot of pressure on themselves.

And when we feel that pressure, music just doesn't come out as fun as it should

come out to be, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

I, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this.

So feel free to veto this opinion if if that's like, not OK, but like at at this

point, I'm also like.

Like deadlines are sort of like, they're

kind of just like a rough guide at this point.

So at the end of the day, if you send something in that's five days late or

seven days late, right? But you send in something that's at 200 %

of your capacity, and the A and R's listen to the song and they believe

that's 200 %, they'll take the song anyway.

Like, the like, like.

That's a confident man right there.

No, no.

It's like it's a hard one, right?

Because I'm like if I if I hyper stress because like all all this does right is

creates a backlog of like deadlines that I'm submitting to now right because you

you're still working on all the stuff.

But at the end of the day especially when

it comes to like these pictures where like for example like Josephine who Co

wrote. Cheshire with me and and Chiara and stuff

like Josephine lives in Sweden, is from Sweden.

So that communication process already takes an extra 24 hours or so because of

time schedules of of trying to catch the time in which we can back and forth with

each other sometimes if the song just needs I just read in the chat arturia

mini V3 go to plug in Elijah Elijah's exactly correct, sorry but.

Yeah, like I was also, I was going with that.

But like the song should be the most important part at the end of the day.

Like if it's two days late, you still end up with a great song.

If you rush to finish it within the deadline and you've put the song to 70 %

capacity, you have a song that's at 70 % capacity.

Again, feel free to readvise that into a more like.

Media, movies, version of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, please yeah.

I didn't say this, Moody.

It's a great advice.

I mean, I tell the guys like when you guys are on song challenges, I will not,

we will not give any, uh, disadvantages to anybody because they submitted it late

or whatever it's and it's not to like test you guys or like oh, let's see what

we can do or let's see what we what they can do is, is not.

Part of that, it's just like really a guideline of like you know, being a

producer, being a songwriter usually about 10 days.

They should kind of like train themselves to bring something to the table within

that time. But you know, if it takes longer, if they

need more time, you know it, feel free to do so.

And regarding like the labels, I would have to second you on that one because

Tim, you have a lot of great connections that you're because you're already very

like. You're already placed in the industry,

yeah. And you're very established so that you

have that one-on-one connection with the label a NRS and the lay NRS you know,

they are in a state of where they trust your songwriting skills and that

whatever, it takes you extra 5 days, they know that they're going to hear something

great. So they have that credibility of you

already that's, you know, meaning.

Established in the with the labels so but

for us you know we still need to be able to like train how to direct our

songwriting skills into that 10 mark at least that 10 mark time because you know

as you know is it just me or you know before back in my the other other

publisher days I feel like the deadlines have become shorter.

Is it just me or.

Yeah, it's like they're like asking for

like a track in like 3 days and stuff like yeah, yeah.

So I don't know what the change up is, but it's become shorter and shorter and

sometimes I'm not able to even touch those yeah so it's just been kind of

wild, but, but definitely second you on where where it's a guideline for

everybody and there will be no disadvantages or or or if somebody turns

it in late.

I'm not gonna say all that person is lazy

or, you know nothing yeah.

So it's just to like give you guys

guidelines on and also becomes a good motivation.

Yeah, when you guys have a set deadline on like when to turn something in.

So that's me.

Like I used to really like, I was like,

like I was like almost never late to deadlines just because I work so well

with that lines.

And, like, it just motivates the heck out

of me.

If I have that nice job, I'm gonna finish

that no matter what.

That was always like my mindset.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And sorry, I should have rephrased

specifically in those circumstances where they're like, you have three days to do

this and I'm like cool i've already got three other songs due in that three days

time. I'm going to need to be like use five

like yeah I should have provided a bit more context but you are right as well.

Like having it's a really important skill to be able to meet timeframes no but but

the but the perspective of just song is more important.

The quality of the song is more important than meeting that the deadline you know

like that's. It just shows that you also have so much

love for the song that you actually believe the quality is more important

than just presenting whatever you have.

Yeah, I I think that's, that's really

profound yeah well, the the song that you end up with lives forever sort of thing.

Like that's how it's going to be after irrespective of how long it took to make

it. So you like, you might as well give it.

Everything, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, Aspen or Ryan.

All right.

Hey, man.

Thank you so much for doing this.

It's awesome.

I agree.

I think one question I have is like it's obvious from looking at your session that

you put a lot of time into it and I'm kind of curious like maybe two-part

You're you're talking a lot about like staying inspired in that piece, but also

how much time do you put into tracks that you're doing, like do you have kind of

ballpark idea and how many, how many songs do you work on in a year?

That's that's a really good question.

Actually I I think the biggest challenge

for me at the moment because I top line as well, I'm I'm struggling to separate

the time that I spend creating tracks and the time that I spend top lining things.

But when it's like if I have a week where I can focus just on track making because

I find it hard to really separate the two.

So like I'll I'll more likely sink into like 2 weeks worth of producing and then

two weeks worth of like top lining other people's tracks sort of thing as opposed

to going back and forth.

I don't know why that is, it's just

that's just how my brain functions.

But at at the moment it's gone to a point

where I think I'll need on my own.

I'll need like a day of where I just get

the idea out.

So a day of.

Figuring out what the drum arrangement is, figuring out what all the instrument

arrangements are and sort of like what their relationships are with everything

else and get like basic effects and sort of figure out how I would want it to

transition and stuff like that.

And then the second day to sort of scroll

through the right sounds and like start a mix going and sort of that sort of thing.

So you're probably looking at like 1 and a half to two days sort of thing where

like. The first day is just getting as much of

I guess the inspiring part in and then the second day towards really fine tuning

it, if that makes any sort of sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's sort of just like in terms of songs I think you with like with the

industry like this that is so demanding with deadlines, you do end up creating

like, like. A lot of songs, like too many songs, and

that's totally OK like, I don't know anyone who in this industry makes like 30

songs a year and they just happen to get 20 cuts out of that.

Like, I don't think that's a thing.

I think it's, it's very much like, for me

anyway. Like, I've got a playlist that runs from

the end of, sorry, the start of 2020 and there's like 380 songs in that.

And it's like no one has heard the rest of them.

The rest of them sit on a hard drive somewhere for the like 10 to 13 ones that

do come out sort of thing, if that makes sense.

But that. But the good thing is that I get to enjoy every step of that.

So it's and again, just to go back to the original question, like the song kind of

lives forever. So if you spend a little bit of extra

time getting it to like 200 %, that's pitchable again, like 50 % of songs that

I've been a part of.

At this point, weren't really initially

intended for that specific artist.

It happens a lot where things just sort

of like go somewhere else.

And that's absolutely fine.

If you have a good song, they'll want a good song.

I hope that was helpful awesome it's cool.

Thank you.

We appreciate it yeah thank you so much

great thank you.

You're welcome. All right gabriel.

Hey, can you hear me? Yes yeah.

So hi Tim.

Thank you so much.

It was awesome.

I love to Shire and I'll never listen to

this song the same way.

And I agree with Papi.

You're a great teacher.

I love to like learn more for you.

I don't know, I don't know if you have a YouTube channel like Papi or if you give

tips or talk about music in your Instagram, but I I would love to check it

out if you do yeah.

And my question, I'd love to do more.

I would love to learn more for you.

You're really a great teacher and

thinking about this my question I have asked this for other producers in other

master class. But I would love to see your thoughts on

making something more Kpop because this is something I have.

I have heard a lot and.

You kind of know what this means, but you

don't. There's not a practical, a practical way

to do this.

So I would love to know if you have

thought on thoughts on how to make something more capable or how to

translate it to a more tangible thing.

Yeah, that's a that's a really good

question, actually, because I've never ever thought of it in that way before but

and also puppy and mooji, whenever you want to add 2 cents to this please feel

free. I guess like to make something more

capable. The really important things to remember

is most of the time there needs to be a way to dance to it.

So what? But I guess more practically what that

would mean is drums is a really important thing for me.

So like. I'll often, especially in the last like year and a half, I'll often

start a drum groove first so I know where I'm headed.

And I can amend that as I go because there's just certain sweet spots for

danceable tempos. And again, that goes on to like listening

to more and more music, right? Like finding more and more music in which

you like the energy of that.

People are also either dancing to or

also. Really popular in Kpop, right?

And finding a way to translate those tempos into sort of like the right drum

arrangements because that is essentially what's making people want to dance.

So the energy and sort of like drum relationships with time and stuff like

that is a really important thing.

The other thing is inherently Korean

music love r and b like outside of kpop.

K r and b and and artists that dabble

into like r and b are, like massive right like?

There are some like like smaller artists that like, you don't hear anywhere else.

But then in Korea they're like huge, right.

So there's always got to be somewhat an r and b element, not necessarily in

arrangement but chord choices.

So there's a lot of like r and b chord

progressions that are really useful to use in like pre choruses and bridges.

And just have specifically in those two sections, right, because being able to

then articulate your musical taste throughout the verses and Chorus helps it

be more K pop, if that makes sense.

Like, yeah, r and, b genre wise is, is a

really, I find a really big part of Korean music so so being able to time

introducing that into your songs, I think it's really important yeah.

So it makes sense.

Thank you so much.

No, you're welcome.

That's like, yeah, the exciting thing is

with kpop, like everything can be kpop outside of that.

So as long as, as long as it's danceable and as long as there's somewhat RB

notions in your progressions like that's you can do anything else, that's a good

point. It's a very practical point cuz like I

can't even imagine not playing.

Not not knowing how to play like 7 course

in pre courses, that would be really tough you know, to do and like 70 % of my

songs will have some kind of like sevens in pre courses you know.

And even like learning I guess with like the sevens and the nines sort of create.

Because I think another thing that I noticed with like a lot of producers

especially in K Pop that are really loved that they do really well is you're able

to sing the top note of each.

Chord progression, not not the root note,

but the like.

You're able to follow the extensions in a

way that it's almost a melody in itself.

And sort of.

Finding ways to dip in and out of your seventh chords ninth chords and your

standard triads like in a way that you can create a melody out of is actually

really, really important.

Because then that also gives your top

liner something to lean on and something to sort of.

Express and then it almost feels intentional that way even if it wasn't

yeah but like yeah, like you said like those those super important with creating

Kpop, I think cool so we're just gonna take two more questions cuz Tim is really

busy guys, so we're just gonna try to end there, right here.

So Jeff was your question buddy.

Hey Tim, just wanna say dude, your

session was amazing.

Learned so much and your sound design is

super inspiring. Thank you yeah so I was just curious

because, you know, like the author Robert Greene talks about how when you become

like a master, you're fusing like intuitive with the rational.

Like it just comes.

And I'm kind of curious like what do you

think about you is like your version of your mastery kind of makes a difference

from other masters where.

Like you've kind of made more placements

or like a lot of your music has translated to more like success with the

industry. I'm just curious what you think that is.

Yeah, yeah.

Master's an interesting word because I

really don't think that that that it's there yet.

But in terms of identifying, I think like a unique part of the skill set.

Like maybe like, I don't know, like I was, it's.

So the, the, the question essentially you're you're asking what I think is like

an important strength to have sort of thing yeah and I'm actually curious to

think like does it have to do with the fact that you're a songwriter and top

writer and producer? Like does that have a big part do with

it? And like if so like what like flavors

like do you incorporate where you think like man, like this is like really

working the last few years kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, that makes more sense.

It definitely helps.

But it also definitely comes with its own

set of challenges as well.

But it's helpful in the sense that I

guess, like with songs that I have been a part of, I have played very different

roles in each one.

Like I've been the producer who hasn't

touched the top line.

I've been a producer who's sort of worked

on some of the melodies on the song as well, and then I've also been purely a

top liner who had.

Literally as far away from anything to do

with the track as possible and just solely focus on top lining.

And I think my goal is like the opposite in each side, right?

Like as a producer, I'm trying to create as many moments to help inspire a top

line as ideas and my goal is to sort of like.

Here is enough information to let you do your thing.

And then when you send me your stuff, if there's stuff that needs to override some

of the stuff in the production, I'm just going to remove the stuff in the

production, right? Whereas my goal is top line there is

totally different and probably inherently a little bit more, probably stylistically

a little bit more Korean in the sense that I like and I get excited by lots of

different melody ideas and I'm trying to give as many.

Colors and options as possible.

So there's like 2 very different like one

is where you're providing all the options and one is where you're trying to cater

for as many options as you can.

So like, yeah, my mindset with top lining

is trying to create a journey where I can almost plot point where it's moving up

and down yeah and then outside of that, like honestly being able to wire yourself

into just like doing things is really helpful like because a lot of a lot of

this stuff is like at the end of the day, using times like this and times where

you're with Papi and stuff like that to like absorb information.

But once you have the information and you have, I guess, the the right things

nudging you into place, like the most important part is just doing it again and

again and again and again, like even that Cheshire session, if I had loaded up a

session from like this year, they're like night and day.

There's those like micro changes that happen.

And if you keep making things over the course of a year, like you're gonna be a

different person in a year's time entirely, which is another exciting part

about it. I hope that's helpful in some way.

Oh, no.

That was super helpful yeah thank you so

much for the compliance for actually, you're totally welcome.

All right.

Last question yuki.

Oh, Yuki.

Someone walked in the door.

Yuki, are you there? Yeah hi hello how are you?

Hi hi sorry yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you for sharing some tips and yeah,

project, but I I'm just curious about the aspects of the publishing deals because I

I was just about the assistant producer of.

Yeah, many producers.

But I'm just trying to find some

publishing deals how? How can you find some publishing deals?

First, there's a lot of different ways, and it depends on which one.

It depends on what is going to be better for you and what you need, right?

Like, sometimes I know some people who just need people to.

Pitch the songs so they some people do song by song, some people do exclusively

and they they reach out.

There's many, many companies sort of

handling music publishing and stuff like that.

And I think here, here as well, right.

And then, yeah, so it just depends in

terms of like the types of deals like some deals will be.

For mainly like admin where they pitch the song and then they they sort of

collect on your behalf sort of thing and then some deals there's like a specific

amount of time and there's there's a lot of different things.

But sometimes I don't know if it works the same way.

But over here in Australia there's like music lawyers are a good way to sort of

introduce you to people but honestly for K pop I think most people you can email.

So like most companies or most people that you sort of can work with, you can

access via email quite.

Easily yeah.

I hope that's helpful.

Okay, thank you.

You're welcome.

All right.

Well, Tim, we are so, so grateful for all the time and.

You just, it just feels like you really poured out your heart and it kind of goes

back to one thing that you shared like you you said that we should create

context and relationships not just for the sake of, you know, just using each

other's things, but it just feels like you're a genuine person that really

likes, enjoys relationships and you've really poured out that to us today.

So we're so thankful, so grateful.

I hope to see you back here with us and

yeah to collaborate with you that that would be really amazing as well.

So thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you, Tim.

Thank you absolutely thank you so much for having me and and listening today.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good luck with everything that you're doing and we you can go right now and

I'll i'll cuz they're gonna go on breakout rooms after this.

So perfect awesome well, thank you so much, everyone, for having me yeah i'll

be back whenever, whenever they are.

Thank you.

No, thank you so much enjoy have a wonderful day or night.

All right.

Bye, Tim.

Thank you.

Thank you.