All language subtitles for The.12th.Victim.S01E04.1080p.WEB.H264-BIGDOC

Ominous music

do you believe I'll only ask
you those questions that have

been reviewed?

Yes.

Did starkweather threaten to
kill your family if you didn't

accompany him in January of '58?

Yes.

Did you believe your family
would be killed if you didn't

accompany him?

Yes.

This test is over.

Remain still for
10 seconds, please.

Suspenseful music

this is the most terrible thing
that's ever happened in Lincoln.

Her hands were
bound in front of her,

and there was a
gag on her mouth.

[Man vo] It was the first of
its kind... these rebels without

a cause killing
people for no reason.

You could feel the fear
just on the TV itself.

[Man vo] Charley starkweather
saw himself as James Dean.

I think he's crazy.

[Man vo] Caril always
wanted to be somebody.

She wanted to be a star.

[Woman vo] I thought, "oh, wow,
is she a hard-lookin' broad."

[Man vo] I see,
really, a scared little girl.

[Man vo] The only two people
who witnessed what went on were

Charles
starkweather and caril fugate,

and everybody else is dead.

[TV flicks off]

It's nearly 13
minutes past the hour now.

Caril fugate was released on
parole yesterday after serving

18 years of a life
sentence for murder.

Miss fugate had accompanied mass
killer Charles starkweather on a

murder rampage some years ago.

She was held in a
state prison in Nebraska,

but under terms of her parole,
she'll be able to start a new

life in Clinton
county, Michigan.

Sensitive ambient music

[male reporter vo] All she
wants now is to live quietly,

to get married
and have a family.

Just an ordinary
old dumpy housewife.

I would, that's
all I want to be.

Caril wanted to live a
different life... a normal life.

Everyone's friendly and
she'll have a good life here...

And if she wants to,
you know, start out...

A new future, I don't think
she'd find a better place than

St. John's.

[Woman vo] After
she got out of prison,

caril was a hospital
orderly in Michigan.

She lived kind of
a secluded life,

working at a hospital.

She got along
well with everybody.

Caused some resentment, but
it seems to be directed more

against newsmen for revealing
those plans than against caril

for making them.

I was looking for a nanny,
someone to come in evenings and

watch two girls.

And caril answered the ad.

She says, "I'm caril fugate,
and I would like to meet your

girls."

When I tell my mother, she
might have dropped the phone.

I mean, it got...

And I'm like, "mom?

Mom?
[Laughing] Are you still there?"

She's like, "oh, oh my god!

Don't you know who that is?!"

She just kinda threw Charles
starkweather's name out there,

and I'm thinking, "oh...

No, no way.

No way."

[Static]

Monday, July the 30th, and
we're secretly planning caril's

birthday party.

[Woman] Here she comes.

[All] Surprise!

Happy birthday to you

happy birthday to you

happy birthday, dear caril

happy birthday to you

what a surprise!

Did you suspect somethin'?!

[Caril] No, I didn't!

Not a thing!

I couldn't believe it!

I thought, "well, gee,
someone must have went

fishing, then."

[Laughter]

[Kathy Ross vo] We didn't even
tell most of the family for a

while, because we know
they would have said,

"are you crazy?"

[Laughing] You know, like,
"you've gotta be insane!"

But you know what?

Everybody deserves
a second chance.

I can't... [laughing] I
really am so surprised.

[Laughter]

Aw, isn't that...

Isn't that darling?

[Gasps]

Who's this from?

Me.

From you?

[Laughs]

I love that...

[Kathy Ross vo] She was in
her 40s when she started.

She would come right from
the hospital where she worked,

but she had so much energy.

When she was in prison,
she missed out on a lot.

She was, like,
trying to do things that,

you know, she would have loved
to have had the opportunity to

do.

She taught her to ride a bike...

Water balloon fights.

[Laughter]

Catch!

[Kathy Ross vo] We invited
her to all our birthday parties.

Oh, it's everybody's birthday!

Hello!

[Danielle Ross vo] I mean, I
just felt like she was like a

best friend to me
and I was to her.

Oooh!

Boy, yum yum!

Let's put pounds on these hips.

Oh!
[Chuckles]

Hey, my favorite.

One thing I've always noticed
about caril is that she loved

children.

But she didn't want to bring
children into this world herself

because there still
were stories about caril.

If she had children, they would
have to live with this legacy.

She'd never told
me details of, like,

being with him, but she
wanted to share a lot.

[Daniell Ross vo]
As I grew older,

I found out more about her past.

She was 14 and...

He forced her to go with him.

She was kidnapped.

She was taken.

Now, my granddaughter's 14.

My oldest is 14.

[Danielle] Woo!

Hi, I'm riding my new
first bike and it's pretty!

Woo!

Tender ambient music

once the media realized
where she was living at,

I can't tell you how many people
have wanted to talk to her or

get her story.

Dark music

she got off of work one time and
the local media caught her in

the parking lot...

Put the lights on her and
started to question her.

She went into a
panic mode because...

She wanted to
forget all that stuff.

Because for some reason,
this captured the people's

imagination.

It seems like about once
every three months or so,

there was a segment
on Charley and caril.

People just treated her
horrible at the hospital,

whispering and making comments.

There were certain people
that would refuse to get in the

elevator with her.

This story just kept coming
up and kept coming up and kept

being told over and over.

Even if you can just imagine
what it'd be like having gone

through such a
horrible traumatic event,

(and a) Nobody believes you, and
b) They're saying that you're

guilty, that you were one of the
reasons why all of this horrible

stuff happened.

I think she's guilty.

I'm pretty convinced
that she is guilty.

I think she's guilty.

Well, I think she was guilty.

She was right along with
him; I'm sure of that.

[Man vo] I think caril has
always been concerned about the

narrative, that it's going
to last long beyond her.

She wanted
people to believe her,

that what she was
saying was the truth,

and so she wanted at least the
facts to come out and for people

to see what
really the truth was.

I'm f Lee Bailey, your
host on 'lie detector.'

if you've been falsely accused
and would like to take a lie

detector test on
national television,

call me on our
hotline: 1-800-lie-test.

[Static]

[Man vo] F Lee Bailey had
started this show on which he

invited people who thought they
had been wrongly convicted to

come on 'lie detector test.'

caril had refused many,
many, many interviews.

She thought if she could
pass this lie detector test,

it would actually show the world
that she was innocent and give

her credibility.

She decided to go on
sort of this truth tour,

if you will, trying
publicly to show everybody,

"look, I'm innocent, I didn't do
these things that you think that

I did."

Energetic '80s theme music

[male announcer vo] With almost
half her life spent behind bars,

caril fugate wants to prove once
and for all that she was not

Charles starkweather's willing
accomplice in the Nebraska

killings, but instead, a
frightened and threatened

hostage.

Caril, you are presenting us
with an extremely difficult

issue on the polygraph.

Let me explain to you:
We're willing to try...

To develop the fact
that you believe...

Or did believe...
You now, of course,

know much better...

[Caril] Yes.

At the time that
you went with him...

[Caril] Right.

[Bailey] That your
parents were still alive,

number one...

That you had nothing
to do with their death,

number two, and number three, if
it hadn't been for his threat to

kill them, you would
have somehow escaped,

disassociated yourself from him.

Right, absolutely.

We'll take a crack at whether
or not you knew your parents

were dead when you
went off on this trip.

Okay.

Ominous music

did starkweather threaten to
kill your family if you didn't

accompany him in January of '58?

Yes.

Did you know your family had
already been killed when Charles

asked you to go with
him in January of '58?

No.

As you can see, we're getting
no reaction whatsoever in the

galvanic skin response.

Notice the cardio
pattern; Nothing at all there.

Based on all of these charts
that we conducted during this

examination, it appears to
me that you didn't know your

parents had been killed when you
started off with starkweather.

I wanna tell you, caril, i'm
pretty convinced that there was

enough there, I think, to
say that that probably is what

happened.

Thank you.

[Bailey] All right.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for being
with us on the program.

We'll be back right after this.

Teen caril Ann fugate was
convicted as starkweather's

accomplice.

During an appearance on f
Lee Bailey's syndicated 'lie

detector' program, fugate said
she was a helpless hostage who

did not know her family
was dead from the start.

The polygraph agreed.

The lights are kinda bright.

I really can't see you all.

Um...

The reason I asked you to come
was because there had been many

phone calls made to the
place of my employment.

As far as, uh, going
on 'lie detector test, '

um, I feel that, uh...

The injustice that was
done to me 25 years ago...

Has been rectified.

I feel personally that
I have been vindicated.

At that time, I said, "some day,
you're going to find out that

you've made a mistake."

And I feel, with the
help of 'lie detector, '

that this has been proven.

Uh, it had been in the news.

This is what... this is
basically what prompted it.

Uh...

You know I had eluded the, uh,
medium and I had refused to talk

to 'em, and this
thing of sorts, because,

see, I know...

[Chuckles] I know
what the press can do.

I feel free.

I feel free.

I really do.

I was, um, free
physically, but...

Well, you can't
know what it's like...

To know that you're...
You're a person in history,

and everyone hates you.

They hate you!

And knowing...

Knowing you were a
victim, and to have the hate...

And the maliciousness...

And... and...

It's... it's like
being in an iron grip.

[Male reporter vo] At
his home in Lincoln,

retired police detective
Bob sodden disagrees with the

sympathetic portrayal of
fugate as a frightened,

innocent hostage.

Only time she put on an
Oscar-winning performance was in

Douglas, Wyoming, when she knew
the jig was up and she broke and

ran for the
deputy sheriff there.

Before that, she
was high on the hog,

she was doing good, you know.

It was Bonnie and
Clyde all over again.

Hey, boy!

What you doin'
with my mama's car?

[Murley vo] There are really
strong correlations to be drawn

between Bonnie
Parker and caril fugate.

They were both from the west
and the midwest of america.

So strongly a part of
the American identity.

Good afternoon, this
is the barrow gang.

The story was typically
portrayed as a 1950s version of

the Bonnie and Clyde story.

This is a very different story.

This isn't a legend,
this isn't romance,

this was horror,
this was terror.

Dark music

[murley vo] It would have been
a different story if Charles

starkweather had acted alone.

But it's not a good story unless
they are lovers who are so

committed to...

Individualism...

And freedom...

And just doing
whatever the fuck they want.

Look, I don't want you
to worry about nothing.

[Murley vo]
Americans love that.

Did I ever tell you that this
here jacket represents a symbol

of my individuality and my
belief in personal freedom?!

About 50,000 times.

Those characteristics have to
be part of the story that gets

told about caril fugate,
otherwise it's not appealing.

Nobody really wants to know
about a 14-year-old girl being

raped and forced to
partake in a murder spree;

that's a horrible story.

Dramatic music

mellow jazzy music

[johnston vo] There's a
French term: "Folie deux."

If two people who might not
commit crimes separately,

but when they come in
contact with each other,

they become sort of this one
entity and do things that they

would never normally do, and I
think that's probably true with

them.

[Siren]

[Charles vo] I
done it, caril Ann.

I killed a man.

I swear, with god as my witness,
the only reason I did that was

for you.

[Johnston vo] I do enough
research that I do feel like I

know the characters
and I know the story.

Read two or three books,
found some documentaries.

And I try to be...

Respectful for,
perhaps, the victims.

I figure if you've been
convicted of your crimes,

then you no longer
really deserve of respect.

Narrative can be so powerful
in making us think we understand

reality clearly.

Caril Ann, let me inside and
let me talk to your mom and

stepdaddy.

No, the flu.

[Anderson vo] Having an
older actress play a character

inspired by caril Ann fugate in
these films makes her seem more

guilty.

Get in there.

[Giggles]

True crime, as a genre, shows
us the dark side of who we are.

You have a story
with multiple murders,

quite-shocking, rather-cinematic
figures in Charles and caril

that have been duplicated on a
fictional level multiple times.

It's a
fascination for the public.

But caril was a
different story, and that,

to me, was what was
truly fascinating.

Eerie music

in college, I was a huge
Bruce Springsteen fan,

and one of my favorite
albums was 'Nebraska, '

and the first track was all
about Charles starkweather and

caril Ann fugate.

So many years passed, I ended
up at a show called 'a current

affair.'

I started digging and I found
out that caril Ann fugate was

alive and well in
Lansing, Michigan.

And I tracked her down.

And my first show ever
produced was a show about the

starkweather murders.

Spacey theme music

this was caril
Ann fugate age 14,

30 years ago.

And this is caril Ann today.

I mean, an entire
state was terrified.

But my god...

He had me in his clutches.

[Larkin vo] When
we were out there...

She was in good spirits, and
we walked around and we saw her

house.

I remember she had this parakeet
that she was quite close to and

affectionate towards.

She was quite worried about how
people were gonna perceive her,

what our spin was gonna be.

But I think she really wanted to
get things off her chest about

this experience from her life.

It had not been
properly exorcised.

I was not a Bonnie
and Clyde having fun,

as it was depicted.

His words were to me...

"If I can't have you, I'm going
to make sure that no man ever

has you."

And that's one
prophecy that he has seen to.

While she had
built this quite...

Solid life for herself over
the years since the incident,

it was all still right
there on the surface.

[Caril vo] I... I feel cheated.

I feel cheated, yeah.

But see, I'm not gonna... I'm not
gonna let the little green rage

monster destroy, you know,
what I have left of my life.

I'm not gonna do it.

Next three decades was one
which claimed that caril calmly

watched television while
starkweather murdered her

family.

I sat and watched television?

While he rammed a gun
down my sister's throat?

And I'm going...

[Crying] "What is this?

And how do they
have the right...

To put something like this in
a book when it's not true?"

It's not true!

[Cries]

I'm sorry.

[Crying] It's just so...

Painful.

She was discouraged that
she wasn't getting through to

people, but she kept trying.

She wouldn't accept that they
wouldn't change their minds

about her.

It's emotional for me that
people have always been so mean

and hateful.

For decades, I feel like, she
tried to prove her innocence.

Just no one believed her.

And then, they'd come out
with a movie or something...

It would resurface;
Every so many years,

it seems like it would all
be brought up again and...

She would just
kind of, "oh, well,

here we go again."

The deadly woman you voted
number nine has entered American

folklore as our most famous case
of teen rebellion gone wrong.

[Camera flashes]

[Male announcer vo] They're
the world's most infamous serial

killers.

[Female announcer
vo] Caril fugate.

[Female announcer
vo] Caril fugate.

[Male announcer vo] Her
name was... caril Ann fugate.

Tense ambient music

the off-the-charts popularity
of true crime speaks to our fear

that's very real, in some ways.

Here is a genre that narrates
the dark sides of our lives.

It allows us to make
sense of the senseless.

There's no other
genre that does that.

[Male narrator vo] He
discovered Janice at the bottom

of the stairs.

There were two victims, and
three more women were missing.

[Woman vo] The pocketbook was
found right near where another

murdered woman had been found.

[Murley vo] For women, we
see ourselves in true crime,

for better or for worse.

[Girl] I can't leave
the house right now.

What's wrong?
Is somebody there?

[Girl] Yeah.

[Murley vo] We get to hear
about domestic violence...

And sexual assault...

That many of us experience.

And for centuries,
we've been told,

"it's all in your head.

It's not that bad."

[Man vo] And
then, she disappeared.

True crime, for women, is a
kind of a collective "what the

fuck?

What is actually
happening that we are murdered,

raped, abducted, tortured,
thrown away in ditches,

buried in shallow graves
en mass in this country?"

We are not imagining it.

I was in my late 40s when my
Rose-colored glasses literally

fell off.

Sensitive ambient music

when I was
practicing law, my boss,

he was sexually
obsessed with me,

and if he couldn't get me, he
was going to ruin my career,

and he did!

I had a complete
breakdown over that.

I was pretty vulnerable.

And really, that's what
drew me into caril's story.

The dread...

And the darkness
you've gotta live with.

That's when it hit me: I
have to show her innocence...

And I'm going to use my
legal skills to show it.

I never looked back.

Something inside
of me was saying,

"keep going, keep
going, keep going.

You've gotta write this book."

I had to be very consistent
with what I was writing.

I wanted this to be the
complete truth of what happened.

It was very in-depth
analysis of both trials.

And caril called me.

She called me in my office.

I closed the door.

We were on the phone
for over two hours.

I told her, "maybe one day,
we could get you a pardon."

And she goes, "you know, here's
what I want the book to do.

I want that book to convince one
person who thought I was guilty

that I'm innocent.

Just one person, and that book
will be a success in my eyes.

Dark music

[ward vo] When I was a
child, I'd just never sleep.

I couldn't settle,
and I still can't.

When I was five, we had
grandparents day at school,

and I wondered where my
father's parents were.

[Man speaking indistinctly]

And my parents told me that
they had died in their sleep,

so I was afraid to sleep.

Eventually, they told me that
my grandparents were killed by a

very bad man.

I asked him name and I knew that
his name was "starkweather."

Her story was
something I dug out of...

Little bits of
television shows or movies.

I found a book in a
library called 'starkweather.'

and I read it
over and over again.

And there she was.

Caril was the last person to
see my grandparents alive,

and I feel like if I
looked in her eyes,

I could tell whether she was
culpable and see into the past.

The night is a long...

Piece of time.

[Chuckles]

[Indistinct overlapping voices]

Dark theme music

it was a murder spree
straight from the heartland.

And america would soon come
face-to-face with two of its own

children: Charles starkweather
and caril Ann fugate.

Delicate piano music

caril fugate agreed to
interviewed for this program.

What he told me was that...

If I did not do as he said, then
he would make one phone call and

they would be dead.

[Male reporter vo] She then
has to tell her story under

hypnosis.

Ominous music

now, caril says...

"I wanted to know
the truth for myself."

[Clock and metronome ticking]

I wanted to know if maybe there
was some repressed memory."

That was kind of a
big thing at that time.

And she says, "if I find
out that I did something...

I'll kill myself."

You've been telling the truth."

She says, "James, I had a bunch
of copies of that recording

made.

And I sent them to
everybody involved.

The county attorney,
the judges, the police.

I'm asking for understanding.

It's in this packet; Everything
I'm saying is in here.

I think it's something that the
public deserves to see and hear.

She got a Lincoln, Nebraska
phonebook and went down the

phonebook and started randomly
sending them to anybody...

Whoever she got
in the phonebook.

I know that caused quite a stir.

I think maybe it's time that
we let starkweather die and Bury

him...

And let me get on with my life.

Dramatic music

[gun cocks]

What are you doing back?

[Charles] Where's your husband?

What do you think you're doing?!

[Smack]

[Groans]

Marion!

[Baby cries]

[Gunshot]

[Gun cocks]

[Gunshot]

[Larkin vo] When I had gotten
out to la in the early '90s,

I had brought
this project to abc.

I had never really
pitched anything before,

and I literally spoke about the
entire story to this particular

executive, and the
project was bought in the room.

It became a
four-hour miniseries.

Speed rolling.

[Man] Speeding sound.

[Man through
megaphone] Background action.

We had enormous
amount of research.

[Larkin vo] We could take a
stance of just tackling it

head-on, almost as a
documentary in some respects.

[O'Hara vo] We were able to
pretty much copy the costumes

down to the socks.

[James mcarthur vo] Mike Larkin
asked me to be the technical

advisor on the film.

I got caril on the phone and
she seemed to be relieved.

I was there on
the set every day,

working with the director...

Specifically to make sure every
last inch of that miniseries was

truthful.

What has happened here
is we have now left 1957.

[Man] Yes.

And we are moving into 1958,
so I'm changing out this license

plate to 1958.

Uplifting ambient music

there was no reason to take
huge creative liberties because,

uh...

Truth is stranger than fiction.

[Gunshot, scream]

Starkweather's story changed
something along the lines of

eight, nine times by the
time he was put to death.

[Groaning]

Somebody help me!

[Larkin vo] But caril's story
remained the same to this day,

all of these years later.

It's never changed.

Didn't you go out with Charley
starkweather for quite a while?

[Both carils] Yes, I went
with him the year before,

and then I told him that I
never wanted to see him again.

Why didn't you wanna
go with him anymore?

[Both carils]
Because he was crazy.

Ominous music

[Larkin vo] It was important
that we laid the facts out and

let the audience have this
experience for themselves.

But then, a critic for the
Washington post described it as

"violence porn."

He accused us of turning Charley
starkweather into a folk hero.

And the next thing you know,
starkweather became the poster

boy for violence on television.

We had a
firestorm of controversy.

There have been thousands of
studies of television violence

and most come to the same
conclusion: That the violence on

the small screen does have a
big impact on violence in the

streets.

A senate subcommittee meets
today to listen to complaints

about excessive violence
in television programming.

'Murder in the heartland.'

Washington post reports that a
18-year-old Canadian saw it and

repeated the murders in the same
way that he saw on that movie.

The charge was
led by Paul Simon.

He was a very
theatrical guy with a bowtie,

so it was great theater for him.

This is a serious problem in
the minds of those of us in

congress.

Abc surrendered immediately.

You know, there's been some
comment about 'murder in the

heartland.'

I mean, we tried do... you know,
we tried to do the best job we

could on it, we
thought is was a good idea,

obviously, at the time.

But I would certainly
hope that by next may,

that we would have less
violence in our may sweeps.

I mean, they basically just
went on their knees and begged

for forgiveness.

All the advertisers dropped out.

And abc had to run four hours of
hemorrhoid commercials to fill

in the space.

Preparation h actually helps
shrink swelling of hemorrhoidal

tissues caused by inflammation.

I'll try it.

There were people who felt we
shouldn't have told the story

because we kept it alive, and
they didn't want it kept alive,

they wanted it buried, they
didn't want to talk about it,

they never wanted to
hear about it again.

We had real problems [chuckling]
coming out of Lincoln,

Nebraska over it.

[Radio tuning]

[Man on radio]
Broadcasting from Lincoln,

Nebraska, 1400 klin.

I am John Stevens
Berry, reminding you...

The torch burns...

The flame endures...

The human spirit will prevail.

In the '90s, caril
fugate's pardon was in the news,

so I invited Jim
mcarthur on the show.

I said, "let's talk
about the pardon hearing."

Of course, Steve has known this
case from the very beginning,

and I told him,
before he started,

I said, "you're gonna find
even now..." And this is 35 years

after the incident, but I said,
"you're gonna find a lot of

pent-up anger at caril."

[James mcarthur vo] We were
talking along there and got one

call...

"Caril fugate is calling."

So of course, he put
her through right away.

Now, that took me by
surprise that she would do that.

I hadn't
expected to have her on.

And I was startled.

So we ran through commercials,

and we ran
through a sports show...

That was supposed to follow.

There were so many calls
of people who supported her.

[Berry vo] The most satisfying
moment is when you can bring the

truth to light, and
here it was: The truth.

Tender ambient music

different people calling
from different places...

Witnesses for caril...

Who got to speak out.

[Berry vo] People use the
metaphor of a blade of grass

growing through concrete.

Sometimes, that will
happen, and the blade of grass,

which was the truth,
emerged, and I was shaken.

It changed my life.

At the moment of
that radio show,

I began wondering what I
could do to right that wrong,

to bring justice.

Tender ambient music

[Kathy Ross vo] I remember her
being so excited to tell me that

she met him at the casino.

They just hit it off.

And she was just...
Just like a young girl,

you know, in love.

Caril and Freddy, it was one of
the happiest times of her life.

Asked all my
brothers and me to gather.

He said he was
gonna get married,

but there was a
story he had to tell.

And caril was there.

And I said, "well,
you're caril fugate.

You were involved in
the Nebraska murders...

With Charles starkweather."

It was hard for her to even talk
about it 'cause she didn't know

how we were gonna
react, and trust me,

every word that ever
came out of her mouth,

I questioned.

[Typing]

I got on the computer and
started digging everything up.

[Chuckling] Probably
stayed up 'til three,

four o'clock in the
morning googling,

and I must have went through 500
pages of Google searches to find

everything.

I'm thinking, "wow,
what's my dad getting into?"

They seemed to be
good for one another,

and, you know, I accepted it.

Mellow jovial music

my dad had a camper and they
went all over the United States

together.

For her, because she's
never been cared for.

There's no doubt in my mind that
it was the best years of her

life.

But it didn't last.

Dark music

they were going to the gambling
casino up in Michigan... to

battle creek.

And they were going 79 miles an
hour when my dad fell asleep.

[Tires screeching]

And he hit a mile marker.

And it flipped the
truck over in mid-air...

And it came down
and smashed the top.

[Sirens and
police radio chatter]

Caril broke a lot
of bones in her...

One leg and her...

Wrist and her arm.

Seven ribs, she broke.

But, uh...

Miraculously, she survived.

But, um, my dad didn't make it.

The accident and the
headlines were just...

I just couldn't believe it.

Dark music

[Clair vo] When I
went to the hospital,

the local news was there.

They said, "are
you tommie Clair?

Did caril kill your dad?"

That was the first
words out of their mouth!

You wanna see me
get angry and mad,

and say a few cuss words?

I did!

[Danielle Ross vo] And then
I remember seeing comments.

These comments are
just, like, horrific.

Just that she should have...
She should have been murdered,

she should have died, she should
have got the death penalty.

[Kathy Ross vo] You
know, "I wonder...

What part she played in this?

Was she driving?

Do you think she
grabbed the steering wheel?"

Why would people
even think this?!

[Danielle Ross
vo] Just hate, hate, hate.

We cleaned up the house and got
it all nice and put new carpet

in, bought some new
furniture, tried to make it...

Her house, you know?

And, um...

We found pictures of my dad
and we put them up and stuff.

And she'd just
break down and cry.

[Kathy Ross vo] She lost
him and then she had a stroke.

We went to see her
about three years ago.

Wasn't she writing on a...

Mm-hm.

Chalkboard?

She was.

She was just in a huge
state of depression.

She said to me, "i
don't know why...

God didn't let me die then."

And then she said...
And I always tell her,

"it's not your time to die.

This is not your time."

[Kathy Ross vo] She
used to talk fast.

Very fast.

Very fast.

So fast, you were
like, "whoa, slow down."

You had to say,
"slow down, wait, what?

[Chuckles]

Tell me that again."

'Cause she was so
full energy and bubbly,

and then to see her like that...

She was trying so hard...

To talk to us and reminisce,
and she just couldn't.

Sad ambient music

and she would be
trying to say one word,

and it would take
her several minutes.

And we were
struggling to understand her.

So I had to read Linda
battisti's book to her.

And it would get
to parts where, ah,

she'd break down.

I mean, I'm sitting right beside
her and she's breaking down,

and she's saying,
"yes, this is true.

Yes, this is true."

It was so hard for her to
even reconcile what happened.

And there's parts in the book
of... where somebody's getting

murdered, and she says, "no,
it was even worse than that."

You know, um...

The horror was even worse
than the book described.

[Ward vo] My
grandparents were murdered.

I can see very well what my
father had been hiding from.

I had figured out, by going
through trial transcripts,

court documents, by
reading 'the twelfth victim.'..

That the story was
much more complicated.

Maybe you could talk a little
bit or tell me what it was

like...

When you found
out... what happened...

At the house.

I just wish it
would all go away.

It's hard to be discussing this.

I stayed away most of the time.

I remember all the newspaper
people at the cemetery,

climbing up on...

[Sighs]

Tombstones to get
pictures of me.

They were like parasites...

At the time when...

You were burying your parents.

That was awful.

[Liza ward] When I asked
about what happened to my

grandparents, I remember you
just told me that they were

killed by a bad man.

Dark music

I don't think there was any
mention of an accomplice or

anything.

I see caril fugate
as not culpable,

and I know that that has
been probably really difficult

for you.

I remember you saying, "well,
she was there and there's guilt

by association.

Well, I...

Yeah, well,
that's the way I feel.

And she did nothing to stop it.

[Michael ward] Yes.

Sometimes, you burn with a hard,

gem-like flame on a subject,
and this became one of those

subjects for a lot of people.

Of pardons.

I met Steve Berry,

and he asked me
if I would write a letter...

In petition for caril's pardon.

I was applying for
a complete pardon,

a complete and full pardon.

[Liza ward vo] I felt like
it was really a betrayal of my

father.

But when I asked him, he
said, "I can never go there,

but if you're going to write a
letter for the pardons board,

just make sure that it's good."

The caril fugate pardon...

Ties into the right of
effective assistance of counsel,

and it ties into juvenile law.

If this case was
tried now, it would be...

It wouldn't even
look nearly the same.

It wouldn't look
anywhere close to the same.

[Berry] Yeah.

[Berry vo] I talked to caril
the night before the hearing.

I said we'd do
the best we could.

She said she would pray for me.

I thanked her.

Tense dark music

I had descendants of victims
not just Liza but other

descendants of victims
in the hearing room...

Who wanted caril pardoned.

I would say 15 seconds.

[Man] Caril Ann Clair, formerly
known as caril Ann fugate.

Ms Clair gave as a reason for
her request for a pardon is:

"The idea that my posterity has
been made to believe that I knew

about and/or witnessed the death
of my beloved family and left

with starkweather willingly on a
murder spree is too much for me

to bear anymore.

Receiving a pardon may somehow
alleviate this terrible burden."

There have been seven different
state or federal court opinions

on the case.

There's been
books, movies, songs...

All towards this case.

But I think it's important, as
you look to the purpose of her

request, to understand that
that's not the role of the

pardons board.

So for that reason...

[Berry vo] That was an
act of political cowardice.

It was a disgrace.

And then, they said, "well,
she was listed as having been

convicted of
first-degree murder!"

This was wrong.

And I said, "could I at least
correct the record as to what

she was convicted of?"

[Berry] May I offer a correction
of the record, please, sir?

No, you may not.

You may not.

Governor ricketts very bravely
shook his ballpoint pen at me.

That is not part... please wait
until the public comment period

and you can talk then, but
you may not comment now.

And he said, "no!"

I try not to
criticize my colleagues,

but no witnesses were allowed,

no testimony was really taken.

That was something
I was not used to.

[Chuckles]
I was, frankly, disappointed.

I'm gonna tell you something:
People who want to blame caril

fugate for what
starkweather did,

why don't you go out and put
flowers on starkweather's grave!

Now, I know that someone
from the governor's office said,

"well, we've heard
the last of this."

Well, I don't think so.

Tender ethereal music

[Liza ward vo] Caril, she'd
been living this for so long

that she also had
become the story.

Who else was she?

What had happened to her?

And she was lying
in a hospital bed,

holding her little dog
and watching crime shows.

[Man on TV] The last Cheryl
Chapman saw her sister alive...

[Liza ward vo] And
I said, "you know, i'm...

The granddaughter of
Clara and lauer ward."

It sank in and she just...

Dissolved into fits of sobbing.

And I...

Said, "I didn't come
here to upset you,

I came here to tell
you that I believe you."

And I hugged her.

"I just want to know why we
always go along with him.

Why do we go along with him?

When there were no bars, and
there were [chuckling] no locks,

and there was no reason why...

You had to say yes.

Why have we learned to do that?"

And she just
started to weep and cry.

Betty Jean...

[Sighs]

From 1955 to 1958.

Velda m, 1921 to
January 25th, 1958.

So sad that one man
can do so much damage.

And her little Betty Jean.

She wants to be buried
right there with her mom when

she dies.

I lost my family too.

I've wondered...

Why I was the one that, uh...

Only survived.

It's something that
will always be with me,

it's something that
I'll always carry with me,

and, uh...

I've learned to... accept it...

And it lives in
the back of my mind.

It's behind a little door.

And right now, um,
the past is over with.

There's nothing I can
do; I can't change it.

Tomorrow, and my future.

There's no way to go back.