Original subtitles

MUSIC: 'You Spin Me Round' by Dead Or Alive

There was immense joy when a record goes to number one.

We knew, every five clays, we had to churn out a hit.

It was only a matter of how did we make great pop music?

Everything else was secondary to that.

As a team - magic.

It's always clever, it's always catchy.

There was this smouldering genius taking place.

Over 100 top 40 hits in a period of four or five years.

I mean, nobody does that.

MUSIC: 'Better The Devil You Know' by Kylie Minogue

It was classic pop. It was uncompromised.

That's what the '80s were, you know. Stock Aitken Waterman defined it.

I always look for the magic.

There's some magic operating in all hit songs.

It was fun.

It was super exciting. But they were on a mission, big time.

You were on the crest of a wave.

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

MUSIC: 'Never Gonna Give You Up' by Rick Astley

It's a lot to have one hit,

but to have the whole of the top ten,

that's just showing off, isn't it?

Most people treated pop music as trivial.

It was more serious than life and death to us.

I knew the industry was out to screw us.

We had to fight all along.

That it ended the way it did was tragic.

# I stand accused

# Of love in the first degree. #

I'd probably had enough by that time, you know,

probably sick to death of each other.

I really do believe the three of them are geniuses.

I think the records still sound as good today

as they did 30, 35 years ago.

MUSIC: 'Step Back In Time' by Kylie Minogue

I'm just immensely proud that I'm part of that legacy.

It was a pretty wild ride.

# When you can't find the music

# To get down and boogie

# All you can do is Step back in time. #

I don't see anybody else's viewpoint,

because I was driving a ship

that was going in one direction successfully.

My job was to be absolutely focused on delivering hits.

Pete was like the, er, the circus leader.

Pete's larger than life.

Anything was possible.

Pete is the ideas man.

Pete is Pete. Pete Waterman is Pete Waterman,

and he... he's a strong presence.

He walks into the room, and he's taken over for a minute.

"Oh, I like that, I like that, keep that."

Ancl he'd be gone again, you know.

He's calmed down and chilled out an awful lot, I think,

over the years, but back then, he was like a box of fireworks.

He's got what we call a great ear for a pop song.

Matt and Mike, I only ever really saw them in the studio

just getting on with it and writing the songs.

Matt is the kind of groove merchant.

He's the guy that brings the, you know,

sometimes the kind of little Nile Rodgers guitar elements in.

I mean, Matt would get on that guitar and you'd be like...

As Jamaicans would say, "Oh, where you come from?"

You know?

Matt was more just kind of like the guy next door.

Like, he'd be your... that cool, laid back,

but at the same time, you knew he was about business.

And so it was easy working with him in the studio.

Mike was the melody.

A bit of a pop star in his own right, but quiet with it.

I mean, I watched Mike disappear into a room for an hour

and come back with a song.

He's a fantastic keyboard player. I love all the chords he uses.

I think I had a bit of a crush on Mike Stock, if I'm honest.

Yeah, and I think he knew it, if I'm honest.

They all needed each other, basically.

So without either of them, it doesn't work.

You know what I mean? Without Pete, it wouldn't work.

Without Mike and Matt, it wouldn't work.

We achieved a lot together.

Er... I don't think Mike and I, certainly in the early days,

wouldn't have done it without Pete.

Pete achieved a lot, but he wouldn't have done it without us,

he couldn't have possibly done it without us.

They were more like artists than writer/producers.

The three of us grew up in an era

where a single or an EP was affordable,

but an LP was a real expensive thing.

Singles was what we really understood, and so we did singles.

Welcome to the Hit Factory in London.

This is where a host of stars come every week to make their records.

Ancl for the last three years, a record from this building

has been in the top 40 every single week.

Everything they touched turned to gold.

# Take or leave us Only please believe us

# We ain't ever gonna be Respectable

# Like us, hate us But you'll never change us

# We ain't ever gonna be Respectable. #

# If you walk away You'll regret it someday

# Please stay

# I want you back

# Don't care what I have to do

# I want you back, back. #

# She told me a secret

# I promised that I'd keep it

# Cross my heart and hope to die. #

It was literally every record they then produced, wrote, whatever,

er, was a hit.

Never Gonna Give You Up,

that record is the absolute turning point of everything in my life.

I'm still unbelievably grateful for it.

I think more so now than I ever was while it was being a hit

and even for a few years after.

But America's the big one.

That's the one that usually, for most British records,

they go, "No, thanks."

With the current countdown to the number one hit in the USA,

this is Rick Astley live, Never Gonna Give You Up.

# Never gonna tell a lie And hurt you

# Never gonna give you up

# Never gonna let you down... #

I mean, I know Rick Astley took America by storm,

and that was Rick's personality and his vocal prowess.

You know that that record will be number one

for three weeks, four weeks, five weeks.

It will start to die down in the charts,

so in eight weeks, you've got to be looking for a new single.

# Whenever you need somebody

# I'll bring my love to you

# You don't have to say you love me

# I just wanna be with you

# Whoa, whoa, whoa

# I'll bring my love to you. #

We, with Rick, absolutely kept that ball spot on.

Bang, bang, bang-

# So don't stop me falling

# It's destiny calling... #

I used to remember some rhyme when we were kids.

Ancl I went into the office and said, "Do you remember this,

"when we used to say, 'Together forever'?"

Ancl Sherie said, "And never to part."

I said, "That was it!"

# Together forever and never to part

# Together forever, we two. #

I think having Together Forever become number one in America as well

after Never Gonna Give You Up almost meant more to me

because it meant, OK,

they might not be throwing me out the back door,

it might not just be a one-hit wonder, we've had two.

We ended up selling something like 12 million albums

on the first album with Rick.

Nobody in Britain was selling 12 million albums at that time.

It was extraordinary.

You were beginning to feel they had that Midas touch

and almost anything they did had a chance of being a number one

or a top five record.

Suddenly, that changed a lot of attitudes

towards what the guys were doing.

And it validated their song writing and production abilities,

without a doubt, with Rick Astley and then Kylie Minogue.

Wow, this is about to take off.

# I should be so lucky... #

I still had my day job, by the way.

I was still, you know, getting my scripts,

learning my lines for Neighbours, driving to work,

and those early clays, it was...

yeah, I guess I still had to pinch myself

that this was really happening.

The interesting thing on I Should Be So Lucky

is that it was number one in 16 countries,

and only two of those countries had run Neighbours.

So it wasn't about the TV show,

it was about Kylie Minogue's voice on that incredible song.

We're number one for five weeks

and somebody says, "What's the follow-up?"

And I'm... And then it's, "Mike, you gotta go to Melbourne!"

So I went out to Australia,

and I got another couple of songs recorded.

# I've got to be, got to be certain

# I've got to be so sure

# I've had my share

# Of hearts broken

# Ancl I don't wanna take that Any more. #

It was just hard work keeping up.

"Here's the song, here's the lyrics,

"do it, quick, move on to the next one."

Ancl I really had to learn everything on the job,

which is pretty much the story of my life.

RICK ASTLEY: I've got masses of respect for that woman.

There's very, very, very few women

who've managed to stick to their guns and have the careers

over the length of time that they've had.

Kylie was the perfect vehicle for us.

I suppose I'd been waiting all my life for that to happen.

I remember saying to Matt, "This is gonna be a real purple patch for us,

"because we can do any pop style we want with Kylie

"because she's just the ideal perfect person."

# I'm wondering why

# I still love you

#Je ne sais pas pourquoi... #

She dances, she sings. She's lovely.

#Je ne sais pas pourquoi. #

That's all I've ever wanted in my whole life as a professional writer

or musician - give me somebody like that, you know.

I was just a kid figuring it out.

Ancl I had amazing people to propel me in that direction.

There's a real collaboration there.

She was absolutely right for us,

and we were absolutely right for her at that time.

Knowing what I know now about the music industry, that's...

that was a pretty amazing run.

Being a, er, a partner of Kylie's at the time and watching her blossom,

you know, from the girl that I knew

into this sort of international pop star,

it made me sort of get off my arse a little bit, if I'm honest,

when I saw what Kylie was doing.

They sort of just asked me, would I be interested in a record deal?

When he arrived and came into my office for the first meeting,

he had a ponytail and he had the manner of a rocker.

Australia was kind of ten years behind Britain

at that point in the '80s in music

and they were very much into rock, that was their culture.

Jason, lovely lad.

Er, fine tone, very fine tone in his voice.

And we had a track we'd recorded with Rick

that was gonna be Rick's next number one.

Er, in fact, when we were working on it,

we called it Rick's next number one,

I think, before we'd even got a title.

So this was this buzz of excitement that Rick was coming in

to record Nothing Can Divide Us, which was written for him.

I really wish they'd written Never Gonna Give You Up part two.

I really, really do, believe me. But they didn't.

I saw Rick, you know, coming down the stairs ashen faced

just heading for the door.

It was just at the point when Rick was teetering on the edge

and he didn't like it and didn't want it to be finished.

So we had this number one hit sitting there

with nobody singing it.

And it was in Jason's key and Jason sang it really well,

and that was Nothing Can Divide Us,

and that was the start of his career.

# You must have heard Some things about me

# That made you turn away

# That made you have your doubts About me. #

How do we bring Jason up to date?

We introduced him to stylists,

we had a great team of stylists as well.

Ancl gradually, once he had his hair cut and the clothes were fantastic,

and he became a pop star.

# You can put your faith in me I would never set you free

# Hold your head up high And let everybody see

# With love to guide us

# Nothing can divide us. #

I always knew what clothes I wanted to wear

and how I wanted to present myself,

but when I cut my hair,

things suddenly got really good and really exciting.

Scott! I'll thump you.

I've only got half an hour to fix the oil leak.

All you have to say is yes and then you can get on with it.

I've heard that one before. "Yes," what?

Yes, I will. "Yes, I will," what?

Marry me?

I was a bit dubious about recording with Jason Donovan on his own,

let alone as a duet.

I was thinking, "Two soap stars?"

I said, "Oh, no, we're not doing a duet,

"not with Kyl... That would be too much."

We were dead set against the idea

of doing a duet between the two of them.

We thought it was naff.

The demand from the trade, the retailers and so on,

particularly Woolworths, was enormous.

Everybody was demanding this record.

It was just the right moment

with the kind of mania of Neighbours.

Ancl Jason had started recording and I'd...

You know, we'd both had our success.

Woolworths want to order 400,000 copies in advance.

Oh, God. We've gotta do it, then.

That is Mike Stock and Matt and Pete at their best.

That's where the team were.

That's where the genius of those guys came into play.

I'd already been to Melbourne to work with Kylie

after I Should Be So Lucky,

and then I'd gone out to Melbourne to work with Jason

to do his first album.

My wife said, "No, you're not going again,

"tell one of the other two to go."

So I recorded Especially For You

with one of my girl singers playing the Kylie part,

and I played the Jason part.

I recorded it, erm, and Matt and Pete went,

took the recording out to...

I think they met them in Sydney to record it.

# Especially for you

# I wanna tell you I was feeling that way, too

# And if dreams were wings

# You know I would have Flown to you

# To be where you are

# No matter how far... #

And the record was designed not to be a Christmas song

because Pete always said, "I want this record to be played

"on Boxing Day and on New Year's Day and into 1989."

# Together

# Together

# I wanna show you

# My heart is oh, so true

# And all the love I have

# Is especially for you. #

KYLIE: Especially For You, I'm always overwhelmed.

It's more than a hit song that people...

still love. It's... It's beyond that.

It just avoids being too slushy.

There's a lot of musical tension in the track itself.

Ancl a big part of that is the tempo,

which is really achingly slow for a four-on-the-floor beat,

and it really shouldn't work, but it just clings on by its fingertips.

I'm thinking back to that Top Of The Pops performance.

I think we were quite nervous about it.

INDISTINCT

All right, 9W5-

Stage one.

With gigantic great cluster earrings or something.

# Ancl all the love I have

# ls especially for you... #

AUDIENCE CHEERING

JASON: No, I didn't have any idea that the Especially For You spin

would be so iconic.

It is quite sort of cheesy in a way,

but it's sort of what the public wanted.

The kind of slow coming together, the lift, the swing.

It's so naive, but it became a thing.

This connection between two people.

And it was a connection as characters and as people,

as we were at the time, you know, as partners.

You know, are they or aren't they together?

And it sort of... It's a love story.

You know, it's a love story.

We did go to number one with that,

but we didn't get the Christmas number one,

it went in at number one in the January.

We were held off by Mistletoe And Wine.

Went on to sell, like, 950,000.

I've forgiven Cliff for that since then.

# And now we're back together

# Together

# I wanna show... #

When I perform that song, people's nostalgia neurons

are just firing everywhere.

It was about the moment and their childhood.

Any time they see Jason and I together,

it's like, is this... is this even happening?

And then when we did the show at the O2,

I didn't realise they'd never sung the song together live.

Probably he and I are thinking the same thing,

"God, we're still here, we're still doing this."

I thinkjason and I talked about it,

and we were going, "We'd better not muck this up."

You know, we weren't... we weren't in our 20s any more,

so we thought, we hope this works.

I can't guarantee we'll ever do it again.

I don't think being a pop star...

er, is a very natural thing for anybody,

but some people...

some people manage to do it.

Some people are born to do it, perhaps.

I don't think I was, really.

Ancl Rick had been out promoting all round the world on his own,

other than with a tour manager.

So we saw, pretty quickly, a worn out artist.

He'd come from the band.

If you're in a band and you've got that sort of a set-up,

you've got your mates with you, and you're having a good laugh,

and you can wreck a few hotel rooms, it makes it all worthwhile.

Rick on his own, I think, was a lonely business.

Rick didn't want it.

So at the height at all of this, Rick just went,

"No, no, I'm not doing it, I don't want to do it."

Cos he wasn't comfortable.

RICK: I developed a fear of flying.

I didn't want to go and promote records.

I didn't want to do any of it, really.

I was super lucky that I had a massive amount of success

in a very short space of time.

Somebody gave me a truckload of money for it,

and I went, "OK, I'm done."

Be careful what you can dream of.

It... It takes a lot of work.

It takes a lot of anxiety.

You know, my mates were in Australia surfing up and down the coast,

and I was, you know, on a plane, you know, working my arse off.

We'd written this song, Too Many Broken Hearts.

He comes into England on February 10th, we record it,

we finish the record, we shoot a video,

and the song is number one on March 10th.

At the time we were doing what we were doing,

I think we were the only ones in the world

doing what we were doing in the way we were doing it.

You know, that's how quickly we moved.

But we could move as an independent company.

Er, it would take a year-and-a-half now to try and do that.

# Last night You talked about leaving

# I said I can't let you go. #

And I'll never forget when Pete heard the record,

he went, "Kerching."

I mean, Too Many Broken Hearts was an amazing hit.

I mean, that shocked us.

I remember that week it went to number one...

He was in... On the Wednesday night, he was in a series about Anzacs.

Yeah, I got my hair actually cut not for the music,

I got my hair cut for a television series called The Heroes.

And I said to him, "Do me a favour, Jase, tell me you die tonight."

And he went, "I do." I went, "Thank God for that."

I said, "We'll sell double the records on Saturday."

Too Many Broken Hearts sort of enabled me

to create my own pop story,

and it was the perfect song, er, for the perfect time.

I was looking different, I was looking like a pop star.

I was becoming my own person

and I think Mike and Matt and Pete gave me the best song

to define me at that time.

# Too many broken hearts In the world

# There's too many Dreams can be broken in two

# Too many broken hearts In the world

# So I won't

# Give up the fight for you... #

They just took off.

I mean, really, really ballistic a lly took off.

# I don't wanna say goodbye For the summer

# Knowing the love we'll miss

# Oh, let us make a pledge

# To meet in September

# And seal it with a kiss... #

Kylie and Jason come out on our own in-house PWL label.

# Oh, every day

# My love is stronger

# And every day

# In every way I love you more

# Oh, every day... #

I think you can't now think of yourself as a cottage industry.

Over the years, the more I went there,

the more platinum and gold records there seemed to be on the walls.

At some point, we were 28% of the whole market.

# Put your hand on your heart And tell me... #

Being part of that era, it's amazing.

# Put your hand on your heart And tell me

# That we're through, ooh

# Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh'.!

# Put your hand on your heart Hand on your heart... #

There was a time when I thought,

"You know what, the eyes and the ears

"of the business are on us right now.

"They're waiting for our next move.

"They want to see what we're going to do next."

And that's a great feeling.

# If I had to do it all again

# I wouldn't change a single thing

# There's no questioning in my heart

# When it comes to our love

# I wouldn't change a thing... #

It was a resentment from the industry that was coming back at us,

where they were trying to keep us down.

And it's hard to, you know, over-emphasise how tough this was.

# You don't remember me

# But I remember you

# 'Twas not so long ago

# You broke my heart in two

# Tears on my pillow Pain in my heart

# Caused by you... #

When you're talking about the 20,000 people employed by Sony or CBS,

whoever they were at the time, or Warner's or EMI,

and the American bosses normally were screaming down the phone,

"Well, how come you're letting these guys take your market share?

"There's thousands of you, and there's five of them.

"What's going on?"

I'm in LA, at the California Hotel...

...and Bruce, who was Donna Summer's husband,

comes over, he said, "Pete, how are you?

"Can I bring Donna over to meet you?"

Straightaway, she said, "Could you write me a song?"

And I said, "Yeah, of course we can," you know.

GARY DAVIES: Donna Summer was just genius.

Giorgio Moroder was the sound for me for Donna Summer.

I couldn't see how Stock, Aitken and Waterman,

what they would do with her sound.

I grew up with the Moroder stuff.

Actually, that stuff was really influential

on our early hi-NRG stuff, you know, her '70s stuff.

We thought it was incredible that Donna was entertaining

working with Stock, Aitken and Waterman,

and that was no disrespect to them.

But, you know, it's a very kind of European, English sound.

Donna came from America.

"What can we do with Donna?"

And we've got a few other songs ready to go,

but I'm looking for something now that you can make a statement with.

I go to bed thinking about it. I've got this idea in my head.

I wake up, I go in the bath...

and I'm getting "This Time I Know It's For Real".

I drive in the car to the studio.

By that time, I've sort of worked it out.

There was a general hum went round the building,

and an atmosphere, you know, "Oh, Donna Summer's coming in today."

Ancl the whole building stops.

So here's a singer that, whatever you write,

can perform it better than you even dream about.

MIMING: # I just wanna tell you How I'm feeling

# Gotta make you understand... #

Donna comes in...

I always have to sing the tune to the singer, to the artist,

because it's the first time they've ever heard it.

And she sings it back to me.

VOCALISING

And she sings it back, with embellishment.

# I'd be a fool If I would let you know

# Oh, baby

# I couldn't keep it Even if I knew... #

Part of the deal with Donna was that we were gonna write with her.

"This Time I Know It's For Real" is an Americanism.

We'd never have used it.

# This time I know it's for real... #

"Shout it out with a megaphone," or "a neon sign",

those were her bits.

# To say I love you with a neon sign

# Anything to make you mine... #

She just absolutely leathered everything we gave her.

She was absolutely fantastic. What a voice.

# If I wait too long for you

# I might explode, oh, baby

# I've been around the block enough To know

# This time I know it's for real... #

It's just a killer track.

The fact she'd worked with Stock, Aitken and Waterman,

for us, it was like, "Wow!"

Ancl by this time,

we had the confidence not to put too much on tape.

So there's an economy on that track. There's nothing that's, er...

You know, there's no "tik-a-tik-a-tik" going on.

Donna Summer is different from any other act we ever did.

So we would do a single, er, it would be a hit.

We'd do a follow-up single, and then if that was a hit,

we'd do an album.

She was with Geffen Records in America.

They didn't understand that concept at all.

It wasn't an option for them.

So we had to do this album.

She had some real strong beliefs

about not singing songs in the negative.

I remember sitting her down and...

Because it did get difficult,

and I had to explain that Shakespeare wrote about death,

but he didn't actually die to do it.

# I don't wanna get hurt I don't wanna get hurt

# I'm not looking for just another heartache

# I don't wanna get hurt

# But I know it's a chance I've got to take... #

We'd made a few changes to a couple of things,

but she was absolutely delighted.

She just went, "This is exactly what I want."

# Love's about to change

# Love's about to change

# Change, change my...

# He-e-e-eart! #

You get that with the best singers.

I got it with Cliff, with Paul McCartney.

It was a great experience.

# Love's about to change

# Change

# Love's about to change Change... #

I got home one night from a club, and I put the telly on,

and they were talking about politics at two in the morning.

I thought, "I've just come in, I've had a few beers,

"the last thing I wanna hear about, bloody politics on the telly."

So about three weeks later, I'm with David Liddiment,

who was the controller at Granada,

and I said, "Christ, your station is rubbish at one in the morning."

He said, "Well, what's your answer, then?"

"Well, why don't they come in from the club

"and we start another club?"

"Go on." "Well, we put a club on live."

This is the Hitman. And this is Her.

Ancl this is Shelley's Laser do me in Stoke!

Yes!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Loads of stuff, all the usual sort of competitions,

and also, we've got some champion spinners in.

They're probably an awful lot better than I am. Oh!

Oh'. Whoa'.!

Terrible. Bloody awful program me. Awful idea.

People remember me more for The Hitman And Her

than they do for anything else.

I knew that The Hitman And Her

was important to Stock Aitken Waterman,

cos it kept us in that night-time club audience

when the club scene was changing dramatically.

And the only way to stay in that

was to have a brand that stayed there alongside it all.

The Hitman And Her created so much grief within the partnership.

I think he was on twin trajectories, yeah.

Possibly. Definitely.

I mean, maybe we all were to a certain extent,

but Mike and I didn't go and do a bloody radio show or a TV show,

because we were knackered by the end of the week.

I did the pilot for that.

# Turn it

into love. #

As one of The Hit man's artists, whenever we released a song,

we'd be invited to perform at one of The Hitman venues or locations.

I think I did it three times,

and, erm, yeah, it was just bonkers, wasn't it?

Before you go, just get a quick round in. Get a quick round in.

Go on, HazelL I'm gonna go and sing a few songs now, Pete.

Who's leaving who? That's the very one.

Hazell Dean, ladies and gentlemen!

We did Who's Leaving Who in 1988,

and that sort of turned it all over again.

Massive. It was a great song.

# I'm just trying

# Cos I don't even know

# Who's leaving who?

# Is it me? # Is it me? #

There was something about Stock Aitken Waterman.

You wanted to be a part of their gang, you know.

They were creating magic, you know,

that was reverberating around the world.

You'd hear records and you'd go, "They've nicked that off us!"

HE CHUCKLES

So it proved you were having a reach.

They were creating this little slice of three-and-a-half minutes

that made everyone feel fucking great, you know.

If we had Jason Donovan on a roadshow,

I mean, we would triple up on security.

It was just pandemonia.

These were things that had never happened since The Beatles,

in truth, and everywhere that they went,

it was just mayhem.

Now onto the stage, you've waited long enough -

Jason Donovan!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Thank you. Welcome.

Oh, there is a few people here today, isn't there?

I didn't feel sexualised in any way, shape or form.

I was very much in control of my image. Always have been.

It's the one thing I knew a lot about.

# Too many broken hearts In the world

# There's too many Dreams can be broken in two

# Too many broken hearts In the world

# So I won't give up the fight For you. #

There was these two girls called Donna and Anne-Marie,

who were, like, the Jason fans, and they literally had pen all over,

like, "Jason" written that many times all over their face.

And they got backstage,

and they both had bottles with Jason's name on it.

Ancl they sat down, they couldn't speak,

they were crying, they both had these empty bottles.

And he was like, "What are these bottles for?"

Ancl they were like, "Could you breathe into the bottles?"

The Jason bottled breath thing...

So, Jason undoes the top and he breathes into the bottle

and quickly put the top back on so they could keep his breath.

That's when it got sorta silly.

It was phenomenal. It was absolutely phenomenal.

Ancl you realise at this point what you had achieved

in the eyes of the public.

I wrote a letter to Pete, saying I wanted to be a record producer.

Surprisingly, he wrote back to me.

I am like a big sponge. I soak up information.

Ancl so when I got any letters, I responded,

on the grounds that one of 'em might know something I don't know.

Ancl I was DJ at the time, Saturday mornings on Radio City in Liverpool.

Of course, I went down to meet Pete as soon as he started the show.

He would stand outside the radio station.

He would talk to the kids. He would ask them what they wanted.

Tony Wilson once said I had the best A&R department

in playgrounds in the world.

Ancl he's right, cos kids knew everything we were doing.

Every Saturday, we would go to the radio station.

We would wait for Pete to arrive. He'd drive up in his big red GTO,

and there was always a girl outside, long red hair

and she would pass him a tape every week.

"Pete, Pete, listen, it's me. I'm Sonia. Sonia Evans.

"Please, please, you've got to listen to my voice."

Eventually, he did listen to the tape.

He said, "I'll tell you what, then, kid,

"come next Saturday on my radio show and let's see what you got."

Sonia performed live, and I think that was him

testing to see what the audience reaction would be.

And then the switchboards were going like crazy.

"Who's that girl?"

And he said, "You're in luck, kid. Would you like to sign with us?"

And I was like, "Whoa!"

We were in our peak period of just being able to write to order.

My big song came from talking to Matt, Mike and Matt,

and it must've took probably about 40 minutes.

And her voice was great, and she's got...

But she was rushing ahead all the time.

And that was just, I think, adrenaline

and enjoyment and enthusiasm.

And I was trying to get her to, "Hold back, Sonia, hold back."

The next thing I knew, you know, I'm on Top Of The Pops, number one.

# You could really love me

# You could really need me

# Maybe you could change your mind

# But you'll never stop me From loving you

# It doesn't really matter What you put me through

# You'll never stop

# Me from loving you. #

I was the first female artist

to have five top 20 singles from one album.

I was absolutely chuffed with that.

It was just hit after hit, really, just one after the other.

Being 18 years old...

Oh, wow, singing those love... brilliant songs,

meeting the people that I met, all the places I went to.

# just listen to your heart

# That's what they say

# Listen to your heart You'll be OK

# Listen to your heart

# Listen to your heart. #

I thank Pete from the bottom of my heart.

I was like a 30-year-old guy making records for kids of 15 to 17.

I can't possibly be in tune with what they are.

But by listening to them and working with them,

that's how you pick it up.

Pete said, you know, "Come down and visit us in the studio in London,"

probably, you know, just being nice.

I think we just arrived one clay, and he was kind of like,

"What, what are you doing here?"

Like, you know, these three kids from Liverpool.

It was at the time when Kylie was there recording her second album,

and Jason was recording his first album.

Of course, they were an item -

the much-rumoured Kylie and Jason stories.

You'd see them kissing in reception, and it was a bit like...

So she was the biggest pop star in the UK at this time,

and we were kids, and she was just sitting in reception with us,

hanging around, I guess, waiting to be called back into the studio.

Ancl we'd sit and chat with her.

I guess you couldn't get your fix of your pop stars

or celebrities on social media and that kind of thing then.

You'd just... They would trek to the Vine Yard

and hope to glimpse someone.

We did Stock Aitken Waterman tours,

where we would have tour buses that would take us around the country,

and we'd do afternoon discos to kids when they got out of school.

As successful as they got,

they still used to go to this little cafe around the corner.

They would go to the pub every night,

even though, at that point, they were, without question,

the most important people in the music business in the world.

# I guess you could say that I'm a fool

# To want you so badly So badly.

# But I'll never give up hoping

# Till I make you mine

# Whoa, oh, oh. #

It was just an incredible time. Lots of money coming in.

And it became more hated.

I mean, I think at one point, Stock, Aitken and Waterman

had seven or eight records in the top ten in one week.

Quite a lot of people have talked to me about Big Fun,

and they've been quite sneering about it.

# The minute I met you, I couldn't forget you

# I knew I was falling in love

# Ever since then To see you again was... #

Pop is supposed to be fun.

Some people think Big Fun was a bit fun too far.

# I have found emotions

# Stronger than anything

# I can't shake the feeling # Feeling... #

If I look back now, and I look at the Big Fun period,

I probably would not have done Big Fun, OK,

because it looked like we were taking the mickey.

It looked like we could take three kids from the park

and just turn them into hits.

Now, as it happens, they were probably the most popular

out of all of the acts we had on the Roadshow.

Other, obviously, than Kylie and Jason, and Sonia.

Big Fun went down better than anybody.

In a way, Stock, Aitken and Waterman really started what became

the boy bands and X Factor,

is you that can actually take a front person

and put a formula behind that person and have commercial success.

Sometimes, it lasts.

Sometimes, it's very ephemeral.

You know, we did make some stinkers. There's no question about that.

Some of them, you listen back, and you think,

"Oh, God, what were we thinking of?

Or, "We weren't giving it full knobs and whistles on that one, were we?

"That was a bad week."

# What happened to the radio?

# They never play The songs we know. #

Some tracks, you heard them and they'd just blow you away.

# I was such a fool

# To think that you would ever Change your ways. #

We made a terrific album with some of the best songs we've ever written

with Lonnie Gordon.

But Lonnie was probably a little mature to be a pop star.

It doesn't mean they weren't great records.

She's got a strong voice,

and the song just caught some...

another bit of magic.

# I know I should have Seen the light

# But I just let your love Go to my head

# I've taken you back before

# Cos you told me you've changed

# Looked in my eyes and said

# Believe me, then you

# Broke my heart and deceived me

# When you said You'd never leave me

# But it's happening All over again. #

In the very early '90s,

it's not... not throwing an idea that's too crazy here,

but the world changed.

Attitudes changed.

I think with Kylie,

she developed amazingly as an artist.

I wanted to get more involved.

I wanted to do more than turn up diligently,

do the song, deliver the song.

Pete said, "All right, kid,

"what do you like, what are you listening to?"

MUSIC: 'Better The Devil You Know' by Kylie Minogue

By this stage, you know, starting to get into club culture in London

and all of that, and getting a bit older and, you know,

having a bit of a rebellious late teens moment.

She was saying all along she wanted to do something

a little less teenage-y, more grown-up.

So we were up for that.

Yeah, music had changed a bit.

Club music had become very, very big.

Kylie wanted to move on.

# I'll forgive and forget

# If you say you'll never go... #

And I think it's an amazing illustration

of how Stock Aitken Waterman could really tap into the zeitgeist

of what was happening and spin that to work for them.

You know, you watched Kylie evolve into, you know,

Better The Devil You Know and Step Back In Time,

and you could see her maturity and her, I guess, sexuality

and change in her artistic expression move along with that.

# When you can't find the music

# To get down and boogie

# All you can do is Step back in time. #

We were right, at that time, the hottest writing team there was,

and we were right in that vein of just writing Kylie hits

as if they'd... they were easy to write.

# What do I have to do

# To get it through to you

# How can I prove that I really love you, love you? #

So we went back to a more clubbier bass,

and we went a little bit away from pop-dance,

a bit more back towards dance-pop.

And, actually, on that album,

there are quite a few sort of techniques that we used

that we hadn't used for a bit, and it was nice to rediscover those.

# Shocked by the power

# Shocked

# Shocked by the power of love

# I was shocked To my very foundations

# Shocked by the power Shocked by the power... #

By the time Rhythm Of Love came,

and we had those four songs that were just like a, you know,

poof-poof-poof-poof of such a solid collection,

I guess we had worked together long enough to nail it at that stage.

When I listen to them now,

I think, "That's good, that's got something about it,

"and there's a magic going on there."

That whole album is just brilliant.

It's brilliant.

Even when I didn't have the, erm...

the time constraint of getting from Australia to London,

having to work, and get back and go straight to work at the other end,

they still worked at an incredible pace.

I did four albums in four years, and then a greatest hits.

So we... we didn't waste any time.

You know, so when Kylie decided to leave home,

because we were like her dads, she left home.

We never really replaced her or Jason, really,

with people who had enough wind in their sails.

They had a forward thrust before we even worked with them.

I love the Kylie records. I loved...

Ancl we're still great friends to this clay.

It was just Kylie became too big.

I know that sounds crazy because of all the money we earnt,

but when an artist becomes so dominant,

then you have to take the money, you can't be creative.

You'd got three lads that took on the world and made a fortune.

There wasn't any lawyers involved, there wasn't any managers involved.

Then people get involved and it's always,

"Well, why has he got this and why has he got that?"

If you go from '85 to... to '91, that's it,

you know, you know, in terms of the big stuff.

We ran out of space,

so we did the only thing that was possible, really,

was to buy a building next door...

and move the administration staff into that.

I went across to what had been the accounts office,

which used to have three people in it,

and I walked through the door, and there were about...

I don't know, 20-30 desks in there.

Er... and I thought, "Who the hell are all these people?"

You know, this is not us. This has become something else.

We were just a recording studio, and they were the office.

Ancl whenever I'd go over there,

it was like walking into a firm of accountants.

So that destroyed whatever... alchemy was going on.

That was ripped apart at that point.

I screamed and shouted at Pete and told him that that was happening.

Er... I don't know.

When we were just doing it as a job of work

and going in and doing what we did best, it was brilliant.

It was...

If you made a million pound, you made a million pound.

If you lost a million pound, you lost a million pound.

That was, you know, the way it was.

It wasn't until later that everybody got accountants

that started to plan it all out that, to me, ruined it all.

Pete's desire to get back into the clubs, er...

was overriding a lot of things.

Pete's focus was elsewhere, I think.

Started an offshoot label called PWL Continental,

er... with the idea of signing more club records

that weren't necessarily made at the studio.

And this was a real bone of contention

between Stock and Nike“ and Waterman.

We didn't make the records.

They weren't Stock Aitken Waterman records.

These were made by the Belgians and the Dutch.

We were fighting our own company here.

We had a label and we had a team,

and we felt that if we put our efforts into making a decent record,

it gets released and gets promoted and... and we have a hit.

Towards the end of 1990, that wasn't happening any more.

Tracks that we were finishing

were being remixed by lots of other people,

and versions were being released

that were not really what we'd intended.

And then the standard of the music drops.

You know, commercially and business-wise, it was a good move,

and especially, you know, massive hits with 2 Unlimited,

but it had nothing to do with the studio team.

My thought at the time was that we should take a break for a few months

and just do something different.

And then we should have been in a position

where we could be selective about what we do.

But I think there was a requirement to keep the wheels turning,

keep... keep the, you know, the productivity going

because there were... I hate to say it,

there was, you know, there were mouths to feed,

there were other people that relied on us to do that.

I've got 60 staff that need paying every month.

I was running a business. That business was eating money.

The fun that I had was on keeping going,

not standing back and patting myself on the back.

I never did that. I just kept going.

But that was my drive and that was my, erm... that was what I loved.

That was it, working. It was its own reward.

But Mike and Matt had that relationship between themselves.

They'd been... Had that relationship well before I ever met them.

It could get testy at times, you know?

Ancl only Mike could handle that.

I mean, him and Matt would fight, and I mean fight.

The nearest we ever came to blows

was we were both walking up to the bank for some reason,

I don't know why, and we'd fallen out about something,

and he pushed me and I pushed him.

And, er... and we both looked at each other and thought, "Oh, for..."

You know? "No. Let's not go there."

What happened, really, Matt decided he'd had enough.

I had a fallout with Mike, which was very unusual.

He was being a complete arse.

And he'd been being a complete arse for two or three hours,

and I thought, "Oh, I'm not staying around here."

So I just got my tackle and drive... I drove home.

And I thought, "Well, what are you doing here? What are you doing?"

And I went, I remember, I got to High gate, where I lived,

and I went to The Prince Of Wales and had a pint of beer.

It was middle of the afternoon,

and this word came into my head, which was "disaffected".

I knew that Matt and Mike had had some sort of falling out.

Ancl I never saw Matt again.

MATT: I expected the phone to ring at some point,

but it didn't ring for two or three days, and I thought,

"Well, fine, if that's the way you feel, fine, screw you."

When we were fighting together as a team, we had common enemies.

We then start to fight against ourselves.

I'd probably had enough by that time, you know.

Probably sick to death of each other, you know?

And that was a shock to the company.

As I say, we had a lot of employees at that time.

We were a machine that was built to handle this kind of product.

As far as I was concerned, Matt had decided to go motor racing.

And I'd just had my daughter, and I had a family,

and I had my motor racing.

I had a few bob.

Matt decides to leave.

I decide to carry on for a while.

We soldiered on. Er... we had hits.

Er... you know, we were still going.

"Without us making music," I was saying to myself,

"everyone's out of a job."

But that was what I stayed for, so to keep it going for the others.

David Howells came to me and said, "Mike, look, if it was possible,

"we should get another album recorded with Kylie."

So I telephoned Kylie and she agreed, you know,

that she would record another album, and we'd co-write it.

And, you know, we had quite a few hits from that.

Following that, everything dried up, there was nothing else to do.

Kylie had finally left.

Ancl I found myself on my own, fighting everybody.

It wasn't the same, you know? Because Matt...

...in hindsight, added to Mike

something that all the rest of the musicians we brought in

just couldn't replicate.

Mike is really easy-going.

Mike probably is the probably the least high-strung

out of the bunch, you know?

I love Pete. But Pete is... Pete is Pete.

Pete Waterman is Pete Waterman, and he is going...

He's a strong presence.

But Mike was fun.

Lovely person, Sybil.

Erm... first of all, I did a cover of The Love I Lost.

The beginning of The Love I Lost,

one of the things I think what might have happened

is that I was probably just singing it before the track came on,

and the decision was made based on some of just me singing.

# I can remember planning Building my whole world around you

# And I can remember hoping... #

it just made sense.

# And I can remember hoping

# That you and I Could make it on through

# But something went wrong

# We loved each other We just couldn't get along

# Take a good look at me

# I'm in misery, can't you see?

# The love I lost The love, the love I lost

# Was a sweet love It was a sweet love... #

As soon as we put it in the clubs, it was, like... instant.

Probably the fastest hit we ever had in that respect.

Because everybody knew Sybil.

So all the radio stations like Kiss had all been supporting Sybil,

but they'd never had the big hit.

I was just actually trying to get into my groove,

and I think that that's how the idea was captured.

# I'm sorry to say

# You go your way And I'll go my way

# It hurts deep inside

# The day we said goodbye

# But the love The love, the love I lost

# Was a sweet love It was a sweet love

# The love I lost... #

I think she was probably in the studio

for about four-and-a-half minutes, which is the length of the single.

Just, you know, that was the great thing with Sybil, you know?

Singers like that just come in, do the job.

I could sing a pop record, but I could sing a R&B soul record

and I could sing a souly-dance record.

Those elements made me a little bit different, and set me apart.

# When I'm, when I'm good and ready

# I'll tell you when I'll give my love to ya

# When I'm, when I'm good and ready

# When I'm good and ready... #

Ancl in the last year I was working with Pete,

I did as much recording and wrote as many songs,

but I think I only had three records out.

We had some hits, but they were on... outside labels.

Er, and all of the focus of the company was moving into this,

"Bring records from here, bring records from there."

Ancl what's the point of having a writer,

what's the point of having a producer,

what's the point of having a studio if you do that?

Mike Stock decided he'd had enough, and made the move by leaving.

I had a real break-up with Pete.

I really let fly,

because something as brilliant as what we had

was being destroyed from the inside, slowly, taken apart.

I just sat back and just said,

"I'll wait, I'll let it all settle down

"and wait for it to come back to me,"

which, of course, it always does

if you just sit there and don't panic.

MIKE: Went round the corner, bought a building, built a studio,

and got going again.

He rang me up one day, he said, "Do you fancy making some records?"

I said, "Yeah, I'm not doing much."

We released Nicki French in the UK. Had a hit over here.

Nicki French, Total Eclipse Of The Heart,

got to number two in the States.

Kept off by Michael bloody Jackson.

# There's nothing I can do

# A total eclipse of the heart... #

We hooked up with Simon Cowell.

So, Simon said, "Mike, from now on,

"I'm only going to make number one records with you."

Post, er... Stock, Aitken and Waterman,

I had two actors signed called Robson and Jerome.

They'd sung this song on a TV show.

Mike, fortunately, saw what I saw,

which was if we got these two guys to actually record this song,

and, trust me, took a lot of calls to persuade them.

And we got them in the studio, and, Mike, thank God,

made that record Unchained Melody for me, and it just went... crazy.

# I-I-I need your love

# Godspeed your love

# To-oo-oo-oo

# Me-ee-ee-ee... #

And so Matt and me, we do, er... Unchained Melody,

and then three or four other singles for that project.

Ancl they're massive.

Well, that's how I started to sell millions and millions of records,

because I worked out the power of television.

Simon was, and still is, to me,

the greatest dynamo I've ever seen in my life.

I mean, Simon is focused,

and when he's focused, he can walk through a wall.

I mean, what Pete did with Steps was absolutely remarkable.

And he clearly took everything that he'd learnt

during his Stock, Aitken and Waterman days...

Because, you know, Steps, when they started off, they were...

they were a line dance group.

Where can they go from here? You know, that's it.

I met Tim and Vicky. Ancl they were the managers.

Tim and Vicky had styled it on, like, Mixed Spice,

so it was, like, equivalent of Spice Girls.

I walked out and just said, "No, it's ABBA on speed."

# Well, I'm one for sorrow

# Ain't it too, too bad? #

GARY DAVIES: He totally transformed them into another pop phenomenon.

Ancl I knew exactly where to take them,

and I knew that if I was...

absolutely ruthless...

...and guided where I wanted it to go, it would work.

Package-wise, clothes-wise, video-wise, presentation-wise,

they'd got it brilliant.

# Everybody, clap your hands

# Get on up and dance

# We're gonna stomp All night now... #

It worked perfectly.

Then, of course, everybody starts adding to it because it's so big.

I mean, they were so huge.

# We're gonna stomp All night now... #

They'd go over and they'd work for Disney,

and Disney'd want them to do this and that and...

...I'm no longer in charge.

And, you know, I go, "Well, you know what? I've been here before."

Don't get upset about it, move on.

Apart, it doesn't work. Together, it's magic.

Stock. Aitken. Waterman.

Oh, it's so different around here now. It's posh now.

Got windows in it. It didn't have windows in it when we were here.

Who'd have thought 30 years ago, we'd be here making a documentary?

People do come here.

Do they? Yeah. Fans.

To do what? To get snaps.

Shall we get a blue plaque? We've tried.

Nobody's interested.

The main studio was here, on the first floor.

Matt, that can't be the, er... control room, though, can it? Yes.

Yeah, that was, Mike. And that is where the tape machines were.

Ancl this was our office here.

That was Pete's office. That was my office.

That one there. Yeah. So that's where I had my train set.

# N-N-N-N-Nothing can divide us

--- 455'

JASON DONOVAN: It's never just one part, it's the sum of three

that made Stock, Aitken and Waterman the success they were.

Well, I think they'll be forever known for having a volume,

a body of work.

The Motown team of the '80s.

They wrote great pop songs.

Responsible for the biggest pop hits of the second half of the '80s.

They were great songwriters.

All the hits they achieved,

all the wonderful artists that they found,

and they really touched people.

They were true to who they were,

and they allowed me to be true to who I was.

It was a beautiful vibe because they allowed you to be,

and so, therefore, they got the best.

I think they're some of the greatest songwriters...

the world, and, without a shadow of a doubt, Britain,

have ever produced.

Legendary. I'd say they...

they have earned their place in music history.

The public, the people that matter,

they're the ones that bought them, they've always felt that.

But I think, in terms of the critics,

they're finally, 30 years later, starting to look at those records

and give them the respect that they deserve.

Well, cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

After 30 years. Or so.

As a musician, I'd started with pop,

and gone through heavy rock and jazz rock and all of these things,

and ended up back where I started, doing pop with these two.

What we did was new.

Everything you see today is because of Stock, Aitken and Waterman.

You know, we were just the three of us,

and we had, at one time, probably two staff.

I'm only now realising what kind of an effect it had, really.

They do sound good. They absolutely do sound good.

But I love the fact that people still like it.

# I should be so lucky Lucky, lucky, lucky

# I should be so lucky in love... #

You do know it!

I definitely spent a number of years

in a little personal wrestle with I Should Be So Lucky.

I did try and run away from it for a while.

And then, at a certain point in time,

I realised you can run, but you can't hide.

# And I would come a-running To give you all my loving... #

It kind of came full circle, and it became cool to do it again.

And now I love singing those songs.

Might have gone through a stage where it was really uncool,

but I think now it's eternally cool.

# Never gonna make you cry

# Never gonna say goodbye

# Never gonna tell a lie And hurt you...

# We've known each other For so long...

WILD CHEERING

# Your heart's been aching But you're too shy to say it

# Inside, we both know What's been going on

# We know the game Ancl we're gonna play it... #

RICK ASTLEY: I sang with her at Hyde Park,

and it's just a fun place to be.

# Don't tell me you're Too blind to see

# Never gonna give you up

# Never gonna let you down

# Never gonna run around And desert you... #

Even though we didn't all go on tours together on a bus,

we are kind of...

connected.

# Give you up

# Never gonna give, never gonna give # Give you up... #

Ancl the fact that Jason turns up.

Because, believe me, he turned up on his bike.

He just turned up. It was just, like, "Well, come on, then."

WILD CHEERING

BAND PLAYS 'ESPECIALLY FOR YOU'

JASON DONOVAN: Stock, Aitken and Waterman, they were doing it

to satisfy people who just loved music,

and I think that's the ultimate accolade.

And... I'm lucky and grateful to have been part of their time.

And, um... yeah, lucky me.

# Now we're back together

# Together

# I wanna show you

# My heart is, oh, so true... #

Ancl obviously, she's a grown woman. He's a grown man.

But for that moment, they're back again,

and so the whole audience, 100,000, they're all back with them.

Ancl I think that is... It's great. It's really great.

Ancl it's... it's nothing to sort of put down in any way.

It should be elevated.

There is one thing I'd like to add to all three of you - thank you.

I think they should do it one more time.

I'm in.

# Together, together

# I wanna show you

# My heart is, oh, so true

# And all the love I have

# ls especially... #

How would you sum up, musically, what you did?

FLM.

Fucking lovely, mate.

MUSIC: 'You Spin Me Round (Like A Record)' by Dead Or Alive

# If If I? I

# I got to be your friend now, baby

#And I, I, I, I

# Would like to move in just a little bit closer

# All I know is that to me

# You look like you're lots of fun

# Open up your lovin' arms Watch out, here I come

# You spin me right round Baby, right round... #

Three cheers for Stock, Aitken and Waterman.

The end.