Original subtitles

**

**

**

**

Welcome to "The Core."

This week on The Core

Director Steven Ellison gets into the squishy viscerality

of his knock out debut "KUSO"

Plus, we've got members of a bona-fide Freakshow,

to tell us why we can't stop staring

We actually had a funeral for "normal."

AND, our effects guru Jim Ojala you how to make puke from a buffet

We need, THAT, looking shit

Bon Appetit

I'm Mickey Keating, and this is "The Core."

The most insane Talk Show you've ever seen.

My first guest is Steve Ellison.

tknthowe hGrimam amys-n You migh

ominated musician Flying Lotus,

but his first film, the provocative "Kuso,"

prompted massive walkouts at its Sundance premiere,

and he's here today to talk about why.

So without further ado, the director of "Kuso,"

Mr. Steve Ellison.

Sir. Hey.

How are you?

Good, man, how are you? Good.

Uh, "Kuso," first movie,

of all the first movies you could possibly make,

why this one?

You know, I had never made a movie before.

That alone was, like...

I had to, like, drink that everyday, like,

"You don't know what you're doing," you know?

This is, like, brand-new territory.

But then, it would be

that kind of wave of confidence, like,

"Whoa, I've never done this before.

Let me -- Let's do something crazy.

Let's go for it." Mm-hmm.

People were kind of like, "Oh, it's a gross-out movie."

People were offended by it. Yeah.

But when, you know, you watch it,

it's got a lot of heart.

It's got a lot of, like, comedy in it.

So, like, what's the balance

of finding something like that?

I knew that I was just gonna have to

punch the biggest kid in the class

kind of thing, you know?

Totally, absolutely. It was that kind of feel because, like,

I know how it is with independent films.

There's so many of them, and a lot of them

just never get seen, or they just never get talked about.

I was like, "I'll give them something to talk about,"

you know. Right.

"Especially on my first one, I'll make sure, like,

I'm coming out swinging," you know? Totally.

That was, like, kind of my attitude, and kind of, like --

more of like a punk-rock kind of thing.

It was like -- I was like, "You know what?

Fuck everybody."

"Oh, this bothers you? Okay.

All right. I got you."

There's so much gross-out stuff in the movie,

but also, you get, like, great performances

from all these characters.

How do you have a movie

with a ton of cum and shitting

and people puking and boils,

but also, make something

that is kind of that work of art

atth'sat, 'sli, keli, keal, soaa sinom se omste rastngrae ngwaea

y?

Well, I think a lot of the stories

are about love in the end,

and I think that that's --

that's just your easy, relatable place,

you know, you come from,

and I think that a lot of the characters

are struggling to make their love -- work

I only realized that

after it had come out, you know?

but I'm like, "Man, is that just, like, my thing?"

You know, "Am I just, like, a struggling lover

or something like that?"

And, you know, you have some really,

kind of, fascinating collaborators on this. Mm-hmm.

And how'd you fall in with David Firth,

Mr. Salad Fingers himself? Oh, man, yeah. David Firth.

Had directed a music video for me a few years ago,

and when we were working on his video,

I asked him.

I was like, "Look, man,

I'll fly out to England tomorrow

if you just, like, make me your animation student."

That's how the whole movie started.

It started off as this kind of, like, 5-minute animation...

Uh-huh. ...that blossomed into a feature.

What's the reason for it?

We didn't have a lot of money to do this,

and I figured if, you know, I can use animation

as a way to get different looks

and different worlds, different feels, you know,

because I think, you know, when people look at films

and they see CG animations and stuff,

their minds just go to cartoon world anyway.

Right. So, just, like, they're like, "If it's not practical,

it just -- it all goes to cartoon land."

lik"Ie,'l And I was just

l just take advantage of that," you know,

because you have animation as this resource

to take people to different worlds.

What's your favorite piece of animation in "Kuso"?

There's a music video that plays

in the waiting room of the clinic. Okay.

And it's, yeah, this stop-motion music video.

A lot of tedious work went into that. Awesome.

Was there any scene, particularly,

where, just, the effects didn't work?

Just didn't work. And it sucked,

and it was just, like -- Uh...yeah, there was one

that I think of that breaks my heart.

There was this, this scene, the Japanese sequence,

where this girl, she's, like --

she's in a tunnel, she's climbing out,

and then, there's this poo monster

at the end of the tunnel. Right.

And in the movie, it's an animation,

but we actually tried to do that practically,

and we had this poo monster, and it opens up.

It had, like, the "Tremors."

Like, it looked like "Tremors," you know? Right.

p,It opens u

and then a head of, like, Louie Anderson in there.

Like, we made a fake Louie Anderson head.

Like, and that opens up,

and the tongue comes out, like, "Wa-la-la-la!"

It does all the stuff.

And it just didn't look good.

Yeah. It didn't look good in the end,

and it was just --

It just turned way sillier than I wanted to.

One thing I learned in that,

and that I'll try to share with y'all,

is we had saved that effect till the end of the night,

which is a bad idea.

Always start with your big gags first... Right.

...'cause those will never work as you want them to.

I read an interview with you that you said film school kind of fucked you up.

Yeah, it's true. And so what's the reason?

I was, like, fresh out of school,

and I fell right in line off what they were talking about.

I was doing everything that they told me to do,

and I think that really fucked me up. Right, right, right.

And it make me question

my natural instincts, you know? Totally.

Sometimes you don't know why you do things.

Sometimes you don't have a reasoning

that you can just explain to somebody.

It just feels right in that moment,

and you go with it, you know?

And I think that's something that

they try to steer you from in film school...

Totally. ...because they --

they come from that kind of idea

where you have to have everything

prepared in a notebook

before you show up on set, you know?

Right. That's what they told us.

They had -- we had to have

our director's homework with us all the time.

I had to take about, like, 10 years away from film school

and, like, forget all that .

The fun thing about the movie, too,

is, like, there's no moment where it's like --

Where it doesn't feel, like, consistent, in a weird way.

Ah, cool. Which is so awesome because that's so hard.

You know, you see a lot of bad old horror movies,

where it's, like, they used different stocks outside.

Yeah, yeah, I know. So it's all grainy on the outside.

Yeah, it's funny you say that because that's, like, uh --

I noticed that people just don't give a shit...

Right, yeah. ...about all the things like that

that we're hung up on,

the regular audience person, they fucking --

The viewer does not care.

At this point, they've been bombarded

with, like, everything.

I mean we shot on 35,

Hi8, iPhone, Blackmagic.

Right. You know, I think, at the end of the day,

it's true what they say -- it's all about story,

you know, really... Totally.

...and the formats and all that shit is just --

that's over. Yeah, yeah.

Like, forget about thinking about that shit.

It's just -- If you have any kind of camera,

that's all you need right now.

I've heard about this movie for a long time,

and as an artist, you obviously get, like, websites saying...

Yeah. ..."Oh, this is what 'Kuso' is gonna be"...

Sure. ...even before the movie gets made.

Sure. Is there any kind of pressure to kind of be like,

"Well, here it is, motherfuckers,"

or, like, do you feel any of that pressure. Yeah.'

yeah, I mean, when it first showed at Sundance,

everyone was like, "Yeah, 'Kuso' --

the grossest movie of all time."

I'm like, "It ain't that gross."

Yeah. "Shit, it's --

you know, there's some gross shit in there,

but, damn, is it the grossest of all time?"

And then, I started feeling like,

"man, they're gonna see this shit and be like,

'Man, it wasn't that gross.'" Right.

You know? Yeah.

Like, "Man, I was -- I was waiting to vomit,

and then I did not vomit, so this movie sucks,"

you know, I'm just waiting for all that commentary.

And so speaking of vomit,

has anyone actually puked during "Kuso"?

Fuck!

Well, that was awesome.

Yeah. Meaning of life awesome.

Let's take a look at your top-five favorite vomit scenes.

Come on. Oh, boy, saddle up.

All right.

So why don't you tell me about this one

and why it's your favorite?

"Bad Taste," Peter Jackson, he's amazing.

Look at him.

Yeah, he built all these effects

in his parents oven, I guess.

Did you use this kind of throw-up reference for, uh, "Kuso"?

I didn't. No.

But it's a reference for me

and my career and my future.

This is where we start.

Now, just imagine him with -- with all the, uh --

the hobbits.

Going from this to fucking "Lord of the Rings"

is pretty incredible. It is incredible, man.

Do you think he tried to hide this movie

when he was, like, taking movies at New Line?

"Yeah, don't check out that one."

Yeah. Yeah.

This is "Audition."

Yeah, apparently, he shot this movie in only 3 weeks.

Aw, shit. I remember seeing this for the first time,

and it fucked me up so hard.

I was like, "No, she's not." Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh.

No, she's not. Ugh.

That, to me, is, like,

prompts all the walkouts, you know?

Ugh.

This movie, apparently, allegedly,

sent a lot of people to the hospital.

Bless them. God bless them for it.

So this is -- "Raw!"

"Raw," the most vile movie ever.

Oh, yeah, this --

See, I love this hair stuff.

You know, upcoming director,

she had to outdo everybody with her hair stuff.

We're gonna be able to see it.

Look at that. Look at the struggle.

When you start getting hair,

and chunks, and things like that

is when it starts really getting disgusting, and --

And so, these interconnected, kind of.

Yeah, and here's "The Ring,"

and I think it's worse

because Naomi Watts is so beautiful,

and then you have this moment --

this, "ugh!"

Yeah, POV.

Ugh. That's fucking terrible.

And then, of course --

And, yes, of course, the greatest --

Cronenberg. The greatest of all time.

And this is "Fly."

Ugh, this is brilliant.

This is fucking disgusting.

Yeah, I love it.

I love that it's also like a two-parter of vomit.

It's not only the vomit. It's him melting, too.

Oh, and your ankle. Right, exactly.

It's the ultimate vomit scene, I feel like.

Was there any kind of throw-up in "Kuso"

that you didn't get a chance to do?

Um, we didn't get to do

the one that I just did, so it was great.

It was, like,

I didn't get to do a good projectile vomit,

so it was nice to be able to express myself

all over you.

[Cla[Csslaicssalic malus ms

]

This is "The Core" effects master, Jim Ojala.

Jim, sir, thank you for my new look. Anytime.

Why don't you tell everyone how we did that? Absolutely.

Um, we started with a simple base

of, like, Karo syrup -- All these things are disgusting --

All these things are disgusting. On their own, yes, yes.

And then combining them, they're even more disgusting.

So you can make a base with just Karo syrup,

and water, and food coloring,

but the most important thing is to figure out

what color your base is, first.

If it's a light base, you put something contrasting,

like dark beans in it.

If this is a dark base,

which, uh, was your recommendation,

that you wanted this nice, like, ass-y color,

which is fantastic. Bile-y, bile-y.

When that splatters against somebody... Moi.

...you're gonna see that lightness,

and then, you've got stuff like creamed spinach.

This is all stuff anybody can get.

And when that splatters against something,

you've got red, you've got -- That does look like my last vomit.

I mean, look at that. Yeah, yeah.

Like, that's, you know -- Tell me that's not vomit.

Wait a second, though, this kind of looks like, uh --

like your, uh, Sizzler, kind of, buffet, actually --

when you like, --

you know, zoom out a little bit, all right?

Absolutely. This is like -- this is --

This looks like buffet-style,

so maybe you just cruise down to your local buffet,

get a bunch of to-go containers,

then you don't have to spend shit. Exactly.

No opening cans or none of that crap, yeah. None of that.

What is this zinc oxide for? The zinc oxide is like a --

It's an additive that you can put in

to make it a little more opaque,

so it's not so translucent,

and then, you get that, like, milky white color, you know?

It's that what's currently

causing my eyelids to stick together?

Um, that's the Karo syrup.

Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So -- but the important thing is

to not add all this crap... Right.

if you're gonna be spraying it through a hose --

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Because this is gonna get caught up,

and nothing is gonna come out. ghSot. t Ri

his is if you're gonna stick it in somebody's mouth,

or maybe shoot it out of a cannon or something.

You've basically said

that you really kind of like dark colored vomit.

Is it the -- What's the preference? Yeah, you know --

Yo, here's the thing, look, I had --

I had vomit that looked like this at first --

this, like, kind of, uh -- What is this?

Clam-chowdery-looking shit? That's corn chowder, yeah.

Some clam-chowdery-looking shit,

And I was really upset, man. I was really upset.

I was just like, "Man, you guys got to --

You guys got to get on the level with me right now, okay?

Like, this is -- this unacceptable."

Look, we need that-looking shit right there, you know? Right.

You know, like, that right there,

this is a disturbing-looking color, right?

Look at the way -- Look at how it sits in the bowl, okay?

Like, the edges of the bowl -- that shit looks disturbed.

This? This looks like --

looks delicious.

Actually, if you light it correctly, it'll --

That is bad, okay? And that's what we like.

Yeah, I think there's something kind of, like, way more cool

about just, like, a dark, disgusting, horrifying vomit,

that it's, like -- like, just -- Yeah, same, same.

'Cause it comes from the depths. Right.

You know, it's that color, you know? Totally.

You know, like, this is like --

this is like a -- you know, a surface -- a surface puke.

This is, like, from -- from the beneath.

For what we just saw,

how much of this do you have to make

If we want that amount of spray at home?

Um, let's say, what you just got sprayed with,

that was a solid gallon, right there. Mm-hmm.

-That was a whole gallon. -And I felt every ounce of it.

There you go. Yeah, I thought it was over,

and it just kept going and going.

So that's how far a gallon will get you

at 80 pounds of pressure. Right.

Go to the Sizzler, ask for only the sides,

and load up, baby -- load up and fire.

For all of, like, the different bodily fluids,

like, what did you guys use?

We stained some underwear with coffee.

Oh, yeah. You know, to give it

that, like, kind of, like, skid mark undies. Right, right.

You know, the tighty-whities with skid marks in them.

And what was the smashing of the bug kind of thing,

because that's like a -- Actually, yeah, we had this thing

where the bug was smashed.

It'd be like, blam, and like that.

We used some peanut butter and jelly,

and it just had this, like, weird look to it.

Like you said, man, you can use any of this stuff

and go just as well.

You know, I like even doing funky textures on the wall.

Like, I was throwing some bean juice

on the walls back there,

and that just has a nice look to it.

I heard you hate baked beans.

I hate beans. You just hate beans in general.

Beans, all beans, I hate all beans.

All beans -- lima beans, baked beans, pinto beans,

black, whatever, fucking refried,

"whatever your grandma wants to make" beans --

I hate all of them.

Don't ever bring them around me

unless we're doing shit like this.

Would you prefer to eat

the bowl of vomit from "Audition"

or a bowl of these beans, right here, lukewarm?

The fact that I have to think about it

is already enough, right?

Because fuck that. Totally.

Well, so, you heard it from the master himself, I guess.

Go to your local Sizzler,

and, uh, make up a concoction of --

Bam!

I think I hate this movie.

**

**

Folks, you're about to see

the World Famous Freakshow,

the strangest show on Earth.

Inside, you're gonna see the Sword Swallower

and the Fire Eater,

the Electric Lady and the Bearded Lady,

the Bubble Boy and the Wolf Boy.

You're gonna meet the Smallest Man in America

and the Littlest Married Couple in the World.

**

They're all here. They're all real.

They're all live,

and you're about to see them with your own eyes.

**

Folks, the show is about to begin.

Come in now.

By any measure, "Kuso" is a shocking film

that we can't look away from.

So why do we watch it?

It would take a freak-show barker

to explain something like that to me.

And fortunately, I've got one.

Mr. Todd Ray, thank you for joining me.

Nice to meet you. The proprietor of

the Venice Beach Freakshow,

and I have Jessa the Bearded Lady,

-Howdy. -And Bob the Bubble Boy.

Let's talk freak shows.

Why do people love them?

Why are they so interested in them?

Well, you know, I think what it ultimately comes down to

is human curiosity.

I think we'd be apes if we weren't curious, you know?

Sure. What's in there?

Right. And could it be real?

And then, suddenly, you have to see it.

What does the term "freak" mean to all three of you.

I mean, the reason we named it the Freakshow

was not just to use that name,

but to redefine the word "freak." Okay.

To actually bring it back to the original meaning,

which means one of a kind...

We actually had a funeral for normal

in front of the Freakshow... Really?

...'cause we declared that normal is dead.

and so, for us, freak means that.

It means one of a kind.

And if you think about it, you, me, everyone here,

we're all unique in our own way. Mm-hmm.

To me, I think freak is, you know, the dark secret,

That taps on the back of your mind

"You've got to go see what this is."

I'm gonna ask you about

how you got into this entire crazy endeavor

in the first place.

Well, when I was a kid,

I was really into magic.

And I went to a carnival,

and there was this big tent

with this whole line of banners

with all these amazing people.

And when I walked in,

there was this man, Otis Jordan.

He could not use his limbs -- his arms, or his legs.

They were curled into his body,

and he was ossified, like stone.

So they carried him out,

and all he could use was his shoulder, his chin,

his lips, his tongue,

and he proceeded to roll a cigarette

right there on stage.

He took two puffs,

and he looked at everyone in the audience,

and looked me right in the face,

and he said, "Now, kids, that's why they call me

the Human Cigarette Factory."

And it was something about that act.

I -- I -- After it, I went and talked to him after the show,

and he said --

And I said, "Mr. Jordan, I'm a young magician,

There's no way I could do what you did."

And he looked at me, and he said,

"Son, if I can do

what I just did in my condition,

a young man like you

can do anything you ever dream of."

And I was hooked.

Wow. That was it.

What are the key ingredients

to making an awesome freak show?

The first ingredients you got to have

is the outside look -- the banners.

Uh-huh. You have to have the flash.

They say, "More flash, more cash."

And, uh, you know,

then you have to have amazing people,

like Jessa the Bearded Lady.

-Yes. -Uh, Bob the Bubble Boy,

The Wolf Boy from Mexico,

he's covered with hair, like, a werewolf. Oh, wow.

The Smallest Man in America is with us.

Can you, uh, show -- Sure.

Explain this guy to us?

Well, this is Myrtle and Squirtle,

the two-headed turtle.

And they have two minds.

Myrtle controls these two limbs.

Squirtle controls these two limbs.

What? Who controls the tail?

I don't know.

Okay, and so I'd like to move on

to -- to you two.

Bob, do you mind explaining

how you got into the Freakshow?

Well, my wife, and daughter, and I

were on vacation.

We decided to go to Venice Beach

and -- and check out the art.

And she goes, "Well, the Freakshow is here."

I said, "Well, what's the Freakshow?"

So we start getting closer,

and I just hear this incredible voice.

Enthralling. So I walk up,

and Todd looks at me and goes,

"I know what you have. Is it all over?"

I said, "Yeah."

Well, this one, here, Jessa, is up on the...

...up on the stairs,

yelling for me to take my shirt off. Take it off!

I took my shirt off, and the crowd went nuts.

They went ballistic.

It was -- It was just crazy.

It was overwhelming.

Hundreds of people, just screaming, "Yeah!"

It -- it was --

It was such an overwhelming feeling,

and Todd offered me a job.

tMionMi tckheo t?igh

Right on the spot? ht-R o-Rn igthhte ospn ot h.ot-Y.ea

Y eah.Do

you mind explaining your condition a little bit?

It's a genetic condition.

Um, it's called neurofibromatosis... Okay.

...which causes tumors to grow on the outside. Mm-hmm.

It can cause learning disabilities,

scoliosis, bowing of the legs,

misshapen heads, limbs.

You talk about what draws people

to want to look at things like "Kuso."

My condition -- I feel it's the same way.

It's -- it's so devastating,

but yet, so interesting. Of course.

And you -- you -- you can't look away.

You have to read about it. Right.

Jessa, I'd love to hear a little bit of backstory

on the -- on the Bearded Lady.

The long story short is gonna be that

I got caught between a rock and a hard place.

I have a condition called polycystic ovarian disease.

It eventually leads into cancer. Oh.

And if you start getting the fuzz,

well, that's your choice to grow it or not,

but at some point in time,

I got to stand up for people like myself

and go, "Hey, this happens."

Wow. Just roll with it.

Life gives you lemons, what do you do with it?

You grow a beard. There you go.

Then you make lemonade.

Mickey: Jessa, talk to me about

society's perception of beauty.

Well, to be honest, I challenge that

because I have both the feminine and the masculine.

I have this full beard,

yet, I am very much the southern belle. I love that.

So, I get the real vibe

that you guys are very much a family.

It feels that way.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mickey: So, tell me about the family life

when you guys aren't on the stage?

Out there in society, I get stared at... Mm-hmm.

...comments made,

but I don't let it bother me.

Inside the Freakshow, I still get stared at,

but I got the opportunity to educate and inform people.

You know, we go on

and do what everybody else does in life.

We just have it a little different. Well, you should see --

You really see when we're all out together. Yeah.

That's really when it's crazy. Yeah.

-That's when the stares come. -You know, I mean,

if you see Jessa go up to counter,

the woman trips out. Right.

But when she picks up the Smallest Man in America

and puts him up on the counter,

and then the Wolf Boy walks out,

everyone just trips.

Like, it's --

You know what it kind of reminds me of?

It's like the X-Men. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, the X-Men couldn't walk into to Target

and go unrecognized.

It would be ridiculous --

"Who are these people?" Right.

That's what I feel like we are when we walk out.

We're like the X-Men. Mm-hmm.

-Wow -You know?

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Are there other freak shows around the country

that people should know about,

or are you guys doing something completely --

We're pretty much it.

We're the last of the true freak show.

This is really it.

I mean, we are the last-standing show of its type

in the whole world. Mm-hmm.

When we created the Freakshow,

the goal was to bring wonder back into the world.

Thank you so much, again, to Todd, Jessa, and Bob.

This was incredibly awesome and very insightful.

**

**

**

You probably have that one friend

who knows everything about movies

and has killer recommendations, right?

Well, that guy doesn't know shit compared to Sam Zimmerman,

who happens to be the curator over at Shudder.

So, you like "Kuso"? I'll never be the same.

That blew my mind.

Do you like things that are, like, deeply weird?

I prefer those things to anything else. All right.

We're starting with "Tetsuo: The Iron Man."

Did you see this? Oh, shit. No, I've never seen it.

Huge influence on "Kuso,"

a 16-millimeter biomechanical nightmare.

this is incredible, frightening cinema

about the convergence of man and machine.

David Lynch on crack, it sounds like.

Crack might be a little too basic.

You like Cronenberg? I love David Cronenberg.

Well, yeah, also an influence on Steve,

also an influence on "Kuso,"

this is, like, straight from the family line,

his son Brandon's first feature film, "Antiviral."

**

It's about celebrity sickness.

It's, like, beautiful. It's grotesque.

It's -- it's amazing.

So, I mean, "Scanners," "The Fly,"

is he living up to his dad's legacy?

Yes, all in its DNA, he does it with aplomb.

It's -- it's totally rad,

and it stars, uh, Caleb Landry Jones,

who you might know as the brother in "Get Out."

Yeah, he's incredible.

What the fuck? I didn't do anything.

"Seoul Station."

Okay. This is a new Shudder exclusive

from Yeon Sang-Ho,

who directed "Train to Busan." Okay, awesome.

So that was like a huge Korean zombie hit, right?

Yeah. This is the prequel.

It's, like, savage and charged,

and it brings, like,

a whole new, fresh perspective to zombies.

Cannot wait. I love "Train to Busan."

We got "The Innkeepers." Okay.

Ti West, one of our modern masters of horror,

works with Graham Reznick,

one of our modern masters of sound design.

What they do here is just really make

this stunning, haunting atmosphere.

This is a great horror-comedy, a great ghost story.

It's a little bit more traditional

but it's a great palate cleanser,

and it's creepy as hell. All right.

So what's that last one?

How hard-core do you go?

Dude, look at me, I'm pretty hardcore.

This is a classic of shock-cinema --

Ruggero Deodato's "Cannibal Holocaust."

Man: I can't understand the reason for such cruelty.

A documentary crew goes down to the Amazon

to document the lives of untouched tribes.

Some get eaten. Oh, shit.

He almost went to jail over that, right? He did.

After they wrapped production in the Amazon,

director Deodato asked his actors

to hide out for a year

He had to pull them out, show them to the Supreme Court,

to prove they were very much still alive.

It's not only controversial, but it's also pioneering.

It's tough, but it's essential.

It's a must-see,

and it's a long line

that leads from here right up to "Kuso."

Hey, uh, what's that playing on Shudder TV?

That's "The Core."

I don't remember filming any of that.

It's happening now.

It's happening right now? Yes.

Mickey: That's all the time we've got on "The Core."

We'll be streaming new episodes

right here on Shudder every week,

and join us next week for our special --

Oh, God!