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(theme music)
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- Yeah, I was the Crime Editor
at the Sydney Morning Herald
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00:00:26,626 --> 00:00:28,926
when the arrests were made.
I still remember the day.
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00:00:28,995 --> 00:00:31,025
The cruise ship docking in
Sydney harbour
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00:00:31,097 --> 00:00:33,627
and the press release coming out
from police
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00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:36,470
that two young women
and a slightly older gentleman
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00:00:36,536 --> 00:00:39,536
had been picked up with
95 kilograms of cocaine
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00:00:39,606 --> 00:00:41,036
on board this cruise ship.
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- This case jumped
right out at me.
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00:00:44,577 --> 00:00:48,677
At the time, I was the Deputy
Digital Editor
for Maxim Magazine,
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00:00:48,748 --> 00:00:52,318
And Maxim Magazine
has a special interest
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00:00:52,385 --> 00:00:54,045
in beautiful women
in bikinis.
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00:00:56,956 --> 00:01:00,786
You know, we knew just based on
Maxim's history as a magazine
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00:01:00,860 --> 00:01:02,660
that we were gonna get
plenty of readers.
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00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:06,699
My instinct said, Yeah, you need
to write something about this.
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00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:12,469
- Britain's tabloid press
is both intensely moralizing
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00:01:12,539 --> 00:01:15,979
but also loves to show pictures
of beautiful women
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00:01:16,042 --> 00:01:18,012
in not much clothing.
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If you ask a news editor
for the elements he wants
in a story,
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00:01:23,216 --> 00:01:25,146
it would be this story.
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- So we just started
writing about it
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and our readers couldn't get
enough of this story.
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00:01:32,358 --> 00:01:33,958
- Once we got off,
it was in the press,
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it was absolutely everywhere,
it was on TV,
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all channels seemed to have it.
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00:01:38,765 --> 00:01:40,395
- Once we wrote one story,
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00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:43,167
readers just wanted to read
more and more and more.
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- Yeah, poor Dad.
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I remember, um...
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00:01:53,746 --> 00:01:57,616
when I was able to put numbers
on my "roster" they'd call,
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00:01:57,684 --> 00:02:01,094
like a line-up of phone numbers
that you can have in prison.
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00:02:01,154 --> 00:02:03,164
I just decided to ring him
and he's like,
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00:02:03,223 --> 00:02:05,833
"Now you gotta give me
your passwords to Facebook
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00:02:05,892 --> 00:02:08,662
and Instagram and Snapchat,
because it's not fine."
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00:02:08,728 --> 00:02:10,528
People were so mean.
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- First of all,
it'd attract attention
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00:02:13,099 --> 00:02:15,339
because they were young
and good-looking,
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00:02:15,401 --> 00:02:18,711
and then second of all, it was
of a way to laugh at them,
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00:02:18,771 --> 00:02:22,711
to kind of think of them as,
I guess, vacuous
or narcissistic.
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00:02:22,775 --> 00:02:26,205
- It was just bad comments,
very degrading,
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00:02:26,279 --> 00:02:29,349
very, very degrading
about, like, appearance first,
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00:02:29,415 --> 00:02:32,015
and these girls were looking
for attention,
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00:02:32,085 --> 00:02:33,185
they were so stupid
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00:02:33,253 --> 00:02:35,723
'cause they were posting
all of their journey...
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00:02:35,788 --> 00:02:38,628
- You know, they're calling
my niece off, like
they're calling her an idiot,
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and like, a pretentious little
fucking like Instagram twat
or whatever.
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00:02:43,796 --> 00:02:47,226
- One of the problems
in reporting news like this
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is you're very aware that
your audience, no matter
how neutral you try to be,
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00:02:51,471 --> 00:02:52,841
is going to judge.
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00:02:56,376 --> 00:02:59,546
- People were really creative,
actually, made me laugh.
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00:02:59,612 --> 00:03:02,452
People were like, don't read it,
you're gonna be hurt and stuff,
52
00:03:02,515 --> 00:03:04,475
but I thought that
people were really creative.
53
00:03:04,551 --> 00:03:07,251
Some were pretty funny,
I must admit.
54
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,660
You gotta always laugh
at yourself a little bit.
55
00:03:10,723 --> 00:03:15,093
I remember a picture I posted.
I was in the water in Tahiti
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00:03:15,161 --> 00:03:19,101
with the nice mountain and I was
drinking a coconut water,
57
00:03:19,165 --> 00:03:21,965
and the quote was like,
coconut water detox,
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00:03:22,035 --> 00:03:25,665
and then people were like,
"Oh now, you're gonna have
the prison food detox."
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00:03:25,738 --> 00:03:28,238
And stuff like that,
like being all stupid.
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00:03:28,308 --> 00:03:32,778
But yeah, I didn't expect much
from Internet, you know?
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00:03:32,845 --> 00:03:34,605
It's alright.
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00:03:38,885 --> 00:03:40,915
- Like, the headlines
were click bait.
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00:03:40,987 --> 00:03:42,987
They were embarrassing to read.
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00:03:43,056 --> 00:03:48,596
It looked very unprofessional
at work reading some of these
stories on my computer.
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00:03:48,661 --> 00:03:53,101
- I saw "Cocaine babes",
I saw "Cocaine cuties" as well.
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00:03:53,166 --> 00:03:56,296
- Once one person calls them
the Cocaine Babe,
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00:03:56,369 --> 00:03:58,739
then other people,
editors would go,
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00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:01,565
"Oh, we need to call them
Cocaine Babes 'cause
that's what they are."
69
00:04:01,641 --> 00:04:05,311
- You know, it's a photocopy
of a photocopy of a story,
which is normal.
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00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:08,278
It's not the first or last time
that's gonna occur
around the world,
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00:04:08,348 --> 00:04:10,418
but I'm not gonna throw
everybody under the bus,
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I mean, they're operating
on limited information,
which is fine,
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00:04:12,418 --> 00:04:13,988
and they have a story to write.
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00:04:14,053 --> 00:04:16,893
There's timelines,
there's things you have
to strike when the iron is hot.
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00:04:16,956 --> 00:04:18,826
This is the story
of the day.
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00:04:18,891 --> 00:04:21,561
But what I saw firsthand was...
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I wanna use the word
perhaps, uh...
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00:04:27,367 --> 00:04:30,037
Lazy. That's all.
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00:04:33,072 --> 00:04:35,942
- I mean, the press were getting
things wrong.
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The press said that they were
getting on at Southampton,
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we never went to Southampton,
we were in Dover.
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00:04:40,580 --> 00:04:43,220
We know they definitely
got on in Dover.
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00:04:43,283 --> 00:04:45,923
- They did board the ship,
the MS Sea Princess,
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00:04:45,985 --> 00:04:48,285
you can see it here,
in Southampton, England.
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00:04:48,354 --> 00:04:51,564
- They had boarded the vessel
in Southampton, England.
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00:04:52,392 --> 00:04:54,892
- There was good journalism
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00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:57,831
which did a lot of researches
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and did a pretty good job.
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00:05:00,366 --> 00:05:04,036
But most of them
really rushed articles, I feel,
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00:05:04,103 --> 00:05:06,243
and they didn't
really do research.
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00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:08,706
There was a lot of mistakes
about, for example,
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00:05:08,775 --> 00:05:11,475
it was Melina's photo
with my name underneath it.
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00:05:11,544 --> 00:05:15,114
- 23-year-old Melina Roberge
has pleaded guilty
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00:05:15,181 --> 00:05:18,991
after being caught
with 95 kilograms of cocaine.
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00:05:19,052 --> 00:05:24,162
- I feel like they did very much
get covered like
basically one person,
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00:05:24,223 --> 00:05:26,293
one bad girl, so to speak.
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00:05:29,929 --> 00:05:35,029
- I know that there was many
stories calling her a porn star.
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That's all we kind of heard
for a long time.
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00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:41,170
- I felt like it wasn't even
about the story no more,
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00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,510
it was about us being escorts.
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00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:06,703
- I mean, I did one sexy
photo shoot, I was 19 years old.
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They took the photos and just
made it out to be that I was--
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That was my career, you know?
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00:06:12,038 --> 00:06:14,238
So when I was 19, um,
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a friend of the family
was a photograph
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and she was
working on a project
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and she needed models.
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So I wasn't aware of the impact
that such photos would have,
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and I didn't expect to become
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"famous-infamous" in that sense.
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So, I was fine with my body,
I was fine with nudity,
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it's beautiful photos.
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00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:41,430
But I didn't think I would
regret it as much as, um,
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00:06:41,501 --> 00:06:44,541
I regretted it
when I got arrested.
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00:06:45,438 --> 00:06:49,138
Because it was used
on a porn site
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and also overused afterwards,
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people could save the photos
for themselves
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00:06:54,147 --> 00:06:56,017
then share it
on other porn sites.
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So it ended up on porn sites,
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00:06:58,351 --> 00:07:01,521
but I'm not a porn star,
or porn model,
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00:07:01,587 --> 00:07:05,057
it was just a young girl
who decided to do
a nice photo shoot,
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00:07:05,124 --> 00:07:07,664
and then it just went...
You know.
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00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,540
- I think the coverage
of André's story was
so interesting.
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00:07:50,603 --> 00:07:53,173
He had more drugs,
they were worth more,
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00:07:53,239 --> 00:07:55,939
yet there's no attention
of his photos on the beaches,
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00:07:56,008 --> 00:07:57,678
or him in his swimsuit.
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00:07:57,743 --> 00:08:00,113
- Yeah, he was paid
more money,
128
00:08:00,179 --> 00:08:02,449
he did have more drugs
with him.
129
00:08:02,515 --> 00:08:04,715
But we just never hear
about him,
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00:08:04,784 --> 00:08:07,194
because he didn't take photos
and put them up on Instagram.
131
00:08:07,253 --> 00:08:08,993
- So I don't know a lot
about him.
132
00:08:09,055 --> 00:08:13,285
Obviously, the report intended
to focus on the two
extremely attractive women,
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00:08:13,359 --> 00:08:15,559
as opposed
to the 64-year-old man.
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00:08:18,931 --> 00:08:20,771
- Um...
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00:08:22,068 --> 00:08:23,838
He's not as sexy.
136
00:08:23,903 --> 00:08:26,573
He's not as...
He's not as interesting.
137
00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:29,109
64-year-old man gets done for--
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00:08:29,175 --> 00:08:31,635
Gets convicted
for drug smuggling...
139
00:08:31,711 --> 00:08:34,611
The stories of the two ladies,
that's...
140
00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:37,150
That's just the way
British tabloid media works.
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00:08:42,121 --> 00:08:47,191
- Hmm, of course, he didn't
have, like, bikini shots
on the beach in Tahiti.
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00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:50,460
So he was less enticing
for them.
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00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:52,160
Like... less...
144
00:08:52,231 --> 00:08:56,271
It was easier to make stories
about us,
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00:08:56,335 --> 00:09:00,565
because we were more active
on the socials, I guess.
146
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,580
They did what they could
to just sell clicks,
147
00:09:02,642 --> 00:09:05,652
and it was the story
so I think they wanted to...
148
00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:07,881
get the story out quick
149
00:09:07,947 --> 00:09:10,047
and just didn't really research
anything.
150
00:09:10,116 --> 00:09:11,576
And yeah.
151
00:09:11,651 --> 00:09:14,221
- Looking at it from their point
of view, I don't blame them
152
00:09:14,287 --> 00:09:16,857
if they feel a little salty
about the kind of coverage
they got.
153
00:09:16,923 --> 00:09:20,663
Either from my publication,
or the publication
where I was at at the time,
154
00:09:20,726 --> 00:09:22,696
or any newspaper coverage.
155
00:09:22,762 --> 00:09:24,762
- I can only use the information
I'm presented with.
156
00:09:24,830 --> 00:09:27,970
If an Australian media outlet
is saying they...
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00:09:28,034 --> 00:09:30,204
They engaged in sex work,
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00:09:31,370 --> 00:09:32,470
you know,
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00:09:32,538 --> 00:09:35,168
with hindsight, I'd like
to have checked that up,
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00:09:35,241 --> 00:09:37,511
would I have had the time?
'Cause you know,
161
00:09:37,577 --> 00:09:39,307
it's high turnover news
these days.
162
00:09:39,378 --> 00:09:42,978
But there is a salacious aspect
to that sometimes,
163
00:09:43,049 --> 00:09:45,589
made it a little bit hard
to look in the mirror.
164
00:09:52,558 --> 00:09:55,758
- You can't quantify or qualify
how it hurts.
165
00:09:57,129 --> 00:10:00,499
But you would have
to be born yesterday
166
00:10:00,566 --> 00:10:02,196
to think that it doesn't.
167
00:10:02,268 --> 00:10:05,538
Right? And just because
you can't quantify or qualify
something
168
00:10:05,605 --> 00:10:07,635
doesn't mean
that it's not apparent.
169
00:10:07,707 --> 00:10:09,877
And it certainly was apparent.
170
00:10:09,942 --> 00:10:13,782
- She wanted to be
the envy of others.
171
00:10:15,214 --> 00:10:17,754
I doubt she is now.
172
00:10:23,689 --> 00:10:25,559
- The first move was
to develop a strategy
173
00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:27,225
and get
the brief of evidence.
174
00:10:27,293 --> 00:10:29,633
The evidence was prima facie.
175
00:10:29,695 --> 00:10:32,525
It was illicit substances
in the room,
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00:10:32,598 --> 00:10:35,638
with their names on the manifest
with control.
177
00:10:35,701 --> 00:10:39,641
- It's a pretty hard case
to argue
178
00:10:39,705 --> 00:10:43,205
when there's large amounts
of cocaine inside
your cruise ship cabin.
179
00:10:43,275 --> 00:10:47,945
- There was no way
that I would win in a trial.
180
00:10:48,014 --> 00:10:50,084
- They had done the crime,
181
00:10:50,149 --> 00:10:52,749
so they're always gonna be
sent to jail.
182
00:10:54,353 --> 00:10:59,133
- But when you plead guilty
early, you get a discount.
183
00:11:01,027 --> 00:11:03,527
- So in Australia,
if you plead guilty,
184
00:11:03,596 --> 00:11:05,396
you usually get a discount
on your sentence.
185
00:11:05,464 --> 00:11:07,704
And usually it's 25 %.
186
00:11:07,767 --> 00:11:09,537
To kind of unclog
the court system,
187
00:11:09,602 --> 00:11:11,542
otherwise,
everyone would just go,
188
00:11:11,604 --> 00:11:13,974
"Even if I know I did it,
I'll take a chance."
189
00:11:35,661 --> 00:11:37,601
(laughing)
190
00:11:37,663 --> 00:11:39,273
- Aw, poor Alex.
191
00:11:39,331 --> 00:11:43,571
He really thought like Australia
was like a third-world country
or something,
192
00:11:43,636 --> 00:11:46,636
I could just run away and...
I don't know.
193
00:12:12,932 --> 00:12:16,902
- Yeah, Louis was... really
wary of that in the beginning.
194
00:12:16,969 --> 00:12:19,339
Before they called it
a committal.
195
00:12:20,306 --> 00:12:23,036
She was already a bit weird,
you know, in the wing,
196
00:12:23,109 --> 00:12:26,279
like avoiding me,
being very evasive
197
00:12:26,345 --> 00:12:28,405
about her meetings
with her lawyer,
198
00:12:28,481 --> 00:12:30,481
not really
opening up to me,
199
00:12:30,549 --> 00:12:32,179
and I was like,
that's weird, you know,
200
00:12:32,251 --> 00:12:35,191
because I was always like,
You need help?
You need anything?
201
00:12:35,254 --> 00:12:36,764
We're sticking together,
202
00:12:36,822 --> 00:12:39,192
we gotta have the same story,
blah blah blah.
203
00:12:41,227 --> 00:12:43,697
But yeah, at committal,
it was such a betrayal.
204
00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:46,103
Yeah, I felt betrayed.
205
00:12:49,368 --> 00:12:51,538
- It was quite the moment,
if you will.
206
00:12:52,171 --> 00:12:54,071
- Our legal teams were just
207
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:58,680
presenting our intention of plea
in front of the judge.
208
00:13:00,546 --> 00:13:04,416
And there was André,
Melina and I.
209
00:13:04,483 --> 00:13:05,853
And Louis spoke first.
210
00:13:05,918 --> 00:13:09,018
Said that I was showing
intention of pleading guilty.
211
00:13:09,088 --> 00:13:12,258
Then it was her lawyer,
and I remember she sat...
212
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,460
- There was a legal opening
for the co-defendant, Melina,
213
00:13:18,531 --> 00:13:20,231
that their lawyer used.
214
00:13:20,299 --> 00:13:22,939
From a legal strategy
point of view, rightly so.
215
00:13:23,869 --> 00:13:27,639
Isabelle, when the border patrol
officers came in,
216
00:13:27,706 --> 00:13:30,406
stated that, "That's my bag."
217
00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:32,376
- They asked if it was my bed,
I said yes,
218
00:13:32,444 --> 00:13:34,354
and they asked if it was
my luggage and I said yes.
219
00:13:34,413 --> 00:13:38,253
- That was the bag
that ultimately contained
the cocaine.
220
00:13:38,317 --> 00:13:39,847
With that,
221
00:13:39,919 --> 00:13:43,689
and because we were
pleading guilty very early,
222
00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:46,526
there was an opening,
strategically speaking,
223
00:13:46,592 --> 00:13:49,632
to allow the other co-defendant
who was in the room with her,
224
00:13:49,695 --> 00:13:52,695
to state that, Hey, why do
I have a case to answer for
225
00:13:52,765 --> 00:13:55,065
because she clearly states
that that's her bag,
226
00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,304
and she's pleading guilty
to this?
227
00:13:57,369 --> 00:13:59,409
(soft music)
228
00:14:06,445 --> 00:14:07,845
- Broke her heart.
229
00:14:09,014 --> 00:14:11,224
She felt heartbroken.
230
00:14:11,283 --> 00:14:14,753
- These women were frightened,
they were in a foreign country,
231
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:19,020
facing serious jail time.
Melina, I'm sure, was scared.
232
00:14:19,091 --> 00:14:23,631
- 28-year-old Isabelle Lagacé
pleaded guilty
to cocaine trafficking,
233
00:14:23,696 --> 00:14:26,226
two other Quebecers are also
accused in the case,
234
00:14:26,298 --> 00:14:28,168
they have pleaded not guilty.
235
00:14:46,285 --> 00:14:48,815
- I wished that she would've
just told me.
236
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,858
As a 22-year-old
237
00:14:50,923 --> 00:14:54,093
that wanted to go back
to her life
238
00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:56,899
and be with her family,
I totally understand,
I get that.
239
00:14:56,962 --> 00:14:58,902
I understand, you know?
240
00:14:58,964 --> 00:15:00,804
She's young,
she wants to get out.
241
00:15:00,866 --> 00:15:02,666
But you won't get out,
you know?
242
00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:04,995
I put myself in that situation,
you know?
243
00:15:05,070 --> 00:15:07,470
Okay, I met bad people
and they offered me this,
244
00:15:07,539 --> 00:15:09,639
but I also wanted the money
245
00:15:09,708 --> 00:15:12,438
and I knew exactly
what I was getting myself into.
246
00:15:12,511 --> 00:15:15,081
Not... 100 % knowing,
247
00:15:15,147 --> 00:15:19,177
but I knew that I was going
to do something illegal.
248
00:15:19,251 --> 00:15:22,421
And you know,
you don't do the crime
249
00:15:22,488 --> 00:15:24,618
if you can't do the time,
250
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:26,790
it's super cliché
but that's really it.
251
00:15:26,859 --> 00:15:29,329
- This was really a decision
that she made,
252
00:15:29,395 --> 00:15:33,725
and she was willing to face
the penalties of that decision.
253
00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:36,999
And... you have to respect
that.
254
00:16:18,277 --> 00:16:20,247
(birds chirping)
255
00:16:20,312 --> 00:16:24,322
- Ooh, I don't think I slept
a lot the night before.
256
00:16:24,383 --> 00:16:26,623
It was a pretty big day too.
257
00:16:26,685 --> 00:16:29,315
They get you up
at like 4:00 A.M.
258
00:16:29,388 --> 00:16:31,358
You can put normal clothes on.
259
00:16:31,423 --> 00:16:33,493
Then when they call you and
they bring you up, ugh,
260
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:35,389
it's just nerve-wracking.
261
00:16:35,461 --> 00:16:37,401
(soft music)
262
00:16:50,542 --> 00:16:53,082
Everything happened so fast
and...
263
00:16:53,145 --> 00:16:57,015
I didn't understand that
she was saying it, you know?
264
00:16:57,082 --> 00:16:59,792
I was really afraid
I would get--
265
00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:03,292
You know, I was facing 25 years
and then she said,
266
00:17:03,355 --> 00:17:06,055
with a non-parole period
of four and a half years,
267
00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:08,525
and I was... so happy.
268
00:17:08,594 --> 00:17:12,464
I thought to myself,
this is a win for me,
269
00:17:12,531 --> 00:17:16,941
and it's a win
because I didn't drop names,
270
00:17:17,002 --> 00:17:18,842
and I still have
four and a half years
271
00:17:18,904 --> 00:17:20,874
and I have a life after that.
You know?
272
00:17:21,874 --> 00:17:25,214
- We were all quite pleased
with that outcome.
273
00:17:25,844 --> 00:17:29,724
You're not the orchestrator of,
and that was shown at court,
274
00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:31,722
you're not the orchestrator
of anything.
275
00:17:31,784 --> 00:17:36,094
I would imagine the vast
financial benefit is not yours,
276
00:17:36,155 --> 00:17:41,755
you're really
a pawn in a chessboard
277
00:17:41,827 --> 00:17:44,127
that's disposable.
278
00:17:46,098 --> 00:17:49,498
These people who were involved
in this were really,
279
00:17:49,568 --> 00:17:51,168
without a doubt,
280
00:17:51,236 --> 00:17:54,836
disposable at every junction,
it seemed like.
281
00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:57,137
- Silence, please, all stand.
282
00:17:58,177 --> 00:18:00,377
- Melina Roberge,
283
00:18:00,446 --> 00:18:04,376
you are sentenced to a term
of imprisonment
284
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:06,520
for eight years.
285
00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:09,515
- The young escort was recruited
by a man
286
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:12,088
referred to in court
as the "Sugar Daddy"
287
00:18:12,157 --> 00:18:14,557
to draw attention away
from the drug mules,
288
00:18:14,626 --> 00:18:18,056
look glamourous and post
Instagram photos of her voyage.
289
00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:23,840
- It is sad that a 22-year-old
was prepared
290
00:18:23,902 --> 00:18:28,172
to be involved
in the importation of cocaine
291
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,650
so she could post glamourous
photos of herself
292
00:18:33,712 --> 00:18:37,082
on social media and get likes.
293
00:18:37,149 --> 00:18:40,389
- I think she was kind
of obligated to say to anyone
294
00:18:40,452 --> 00:18:42,922
who was listening or reading,
295
00:18:42,988 --> 00:18:46,628
if you think that you can get
a free holiday
296
00:18:46,692 --> 00:18:48,762
and take Instagram photos
and just not think about
297
00:18:48,827 --> 00:18:50,427
what's in that bag
under the bed,
298
00:18:50,496 --> 00:18:51,756
you should think again.
299
00:19:46,852 --> 00:19:49,152
- Like, in his case,
if someone pleads guilty
300
00:19:49,221 --> 00:19:51,321
to what they've been charged
with,
301
00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:52,960
we don't go through
the whole trial process,
302
00:19:53,025 --> 00:19:54,655
so we don't get to hear from...
303
00:19:54,726 --> 00:19:58,356
witnesses, we don't really get
to hear the police evidence
in full,
304
00:19:58,430 --> 00:20:01,200
and we don't get a lot
of explanation
305
00:20:01,266 --> 00:20:02,866
as to how this happened,
why did this happen
306
00:20:02,935 --> 00:20:05,035
and how did we end up here.
307
00:20:05,103 --> 00:20:08,113
It does leave you
asking a lot of questions.
308
00:20:10,542 --> 00:20:12,952
You know, I talk about these
two women being drug mules,
309
00:20:13,011 --> 00:20:15,481
and being picked up
and now arrested
310
00:20:15,547 --> 00:20:19,147
and spending 8 years in jail,
but these drug organizations,
311
00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:21,318
they don't think anything
of that.
312
00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:25,486
They immediately would've been
finding two other women or men
313
00:20:25,557 --> 00:20:27,187
or other mules.
314
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:33,330
- It is rare that you get
the Mr. Big.
315
00:20:33,398 --> 00:20:35,768
You know, the man
who really organizes it.
316
00:20:35,834 --> 00:20:40,044
That's... That's a bit of a
rarity catching such a person.
317
00:20:40,105 --> 00:20:44,835
Most of the people before the
courts are small-time users
318
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:48,210
and small-time dealers.
319
00:20:49,348 --> 00:20:51,818
And the people that come in
from overseas,
320
00:20:51,883 --> 00:20:54,723
carrying quantities of drugs
on them.
321
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:14,340
- Prison is another planet.
322
00:21:15,474 --> 00:21:17,844
The first thing you realize
when you go into a prison
323
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:20,179
is that when you're past that...
(buzzing)
324
00:21:20,245 --> 00:21:23,675
And the door opens, clang,
and you walk in,
325
00:21:23,749 --> 00:21:26,689
it's the prisoners
who run the prison.
326
00:21:38,497 --> 00:21:42,297
- I would've paid millions
to be free.
327
00:21:42,367 --> 00:21:44,167
I just wanted out.
328
00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:46,196
I wanted to do whatever
I want whenever I want.
329
00:21:46,271 --> 00:21:48,671
Not to have to put it
on a request form,
330
00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:50,810
to ask permission to breathe,
you know?
331
00:21:56,515 --> 00:21:59,445
- It's military, like,
you wake up when they want you
to wake up,
332
00:21:59,518 --> 00:22:02,488
you are locked in your cell
for many hours.
333
00:22:02,554 --> 00:22:05,794
All you hear is metal tapping...
334
00:22:06,458 --> 00:22:09,388
Girls that are upset.
335
00:22:09,461 --> 00:22:12,231
- Prison is definitely
no summer camp.
336
00:22:12,297 --> 00:22:14,667
It's pretty intense,
337
00:22:14,733 --> 00:22:16,373
especially in the beginning.
338
00:22:16,435 --> 00:22:20,265
You don't really know the rules
and how it works.
339
00:22:21,606 --> 00:22:23,706
At the beginning,
you don't have anything,
340
00:22:23,775 --> 00:22:25,335
you don't have money.
341
00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:27,350
I remember the first cell
that they put me in,
342
00:22:27,412 --> 00:22:29,352
it had a camera,
343
00:22:29,414 --> 00:22:32,354
and there was no television,
I had no paper and pen,
344
00:22:32,417 --> 00:22:36,357
so you're just sitting there
with nothing but your thoughts.
345
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:40,256
With a heroin addict
who was just shaking
346
00:22:40,325 --> 00:22:43,425
because her legs hurt because
she's in need of her dose.
347
00:22:43,495 --> 00:22:46,425
And it's a reality check.
348
00:22:46,498 --> 00:22:49,598
You realize, I'm in another
country in prison.
349
00:22:49,668 --> 00:22:51,838
This is messed up.
350
00:22:57,376 --> 00:23:02,106
The first summer, because I got
arrested at the end of August,
351
00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:06,420
so their summer is end
of the year.
352
00:23:06,485 --> 00:23:10,385
It's like, you know,
when you open an over,
353
00:23:10,455 --> 00:23:12,485
you feel the heat?
354
00:23:13,425 --> 00:23:16,955
That's what summer's like
in Australia.
355
00:23:17,028 --> 00:23:18,958
It's so hot.
356
00:23:19,030 --> 00:23:21,470
It goes up to like 48 degrees.
357
00:23:22,467 --> 00:23:24,367
That's insane,
358
00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:28,566
insanely hot to be in a prison
with no air conditioning.
359
00:23:29,207 --> 00:23:31,207
I'm telling you.
360
00:23:38,617 --> 00:23:40,817
I lost a lot of people.
361
00:23:41,653 --> 00:23:46,193
People that I thought were
my friends, my ride-or-die...
362
00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:49,088
Some people just took the door
363
00:23:49,161 --> 00:23:51,601
and I didn't fight to keep them.
364
00:23:53,298 --> 00:23:56,398
- You realize everybody
doesn't love you and...
365
00:23:56,468 --> 00:23:58,468
And the world will do
just fine without you.
366
00:23:58,537 --> 00:24:01,237
I think it's a pretty lonely
feeling.
367
00:24:05,343 --> 00:24:07,513
- Alex, he was sad.
368
00:24:07,579 --> 00:24:10,679
I mean, he knew what I was in,
he lived it, so...
369
00:24:10,749 --> 00:24:12,779
I think he really wanted
to help.
370
00:24:14,419 --> 00:24:18,659
- He would contact us
to let us know
what was going on.
371
00:24:18,723 --> 00:24:21,963
I think he sent her
what she needed.
372
00:24:22,027 --> 00:24:24,057
Clothing, whatever.
373
00:24:24,129 --> 00:24:26,159
- He was always answering
my phone calls,
374
00:24:26,231 --> 00:24:29,701
always trying to reassure me
and listening to me.
375
00:24:29,768 --> 00:24:31,768
He was sending me
a lot of money as well,
376
00:24:31,837 --> 00:24:33,167
like $600 a month.
377
00:24:33,238 --> 00:24:35,268
And I remember him saying,
378
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:38,880
"I want you to be the biggest
baller of the prison."
379
00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:41,775
So sweet.
380
00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:47,846
I did 14 months
in the maximum security,
381
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:51,159
and then when I got sentenced,
I got um,
382
00:24:51,223 --> 00:24:52,893
a re... class
they say,
383
00:24:52,958 --> 00:24:55,458
and they sent me
to a working prison.
384
00:24:58,196 --> 00:25:01,826
- Emu Plains is a minimum
security prison.
385
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:05,940
And basically any prisoner who
wanted to could just walk out.
386
00:25:07,105 --> 00:25:09,405
There wouldn't be much
to stop them.
387
00:25:09,474 --> 00:25:11,544
They don't have big
high-wired fences.
388
00:25:11,610 --> 00:25:14,310
They don't have armed guards
prowling around the place
389
00:25:14,379 --> 00:25:16,179
keeping an eye on them.
(mooing)
390
00:25:16,248 --> 00:25:17,418
- I think someone escaped
from there
391
00:25:17,482 --> 00:25:19,422
by simply walking out
of the door
392
00:25:19,484 --> 00:25:21,254
because there wasn't any...
393
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:23,559
Like, there wasn't anyone
watching them.
394
00:25:23,622 --> 00:25:26,392
So I think to be in Emu Plains,
that just shows
395
00:25:26,458 --> 00:25:29,258
they judged that she didn't pose
any risk at all.
396
00:25:56,655 --> 00:25:58,485
(♪♪)
397
00:26:22,547 --> 00:26:24,517
- Some days,
she was more handling it.
398
00:26:24,583 --> 00:26:27,593
And some days
she was just crushed.
399
00:26:28,887 --> 00:26:33,587
But most of the time,
I was amazed at how positive
she stayed.
400
00:26:41,333 --> 00:26:45,343
- Letters and photos and cards
is always something you look
forward to at the end of the day
401
00:26:45,403 --> 00:26:47,013
when you come back from work,
402
00:26:47,072 --> 00:26:49,412
I'd always go and ask,
"Do I have mail?"
403
00:26:49,474 --> 00:26:51,544
And you read it
and it's just uh,
404
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:55,080
a little more time that
you spend with your family
and friends,
405
00:26:55,146 --> 00:26:57,416
and it was always something
that you would look forward to
406
00:26:57,482 --> 00:26:59,152
at the end of the day.
407
00:26:59,217 --> 00:27:02,087
Keeping in touch with
the outside world a little bit.
408
00:27:06,791 --> 00:27:09,291
(soft music)
409
00:27:47,065 --> 00:27:48,965
(♪♪)
410
00:29:10,248 --> 00:29:13,248
- Yeah, he left me.
(laughing)
411
00:29:13,318 --> 00:29:16,218
He left me for a hotter chick!
412
00:29:16,287 --> 00:29:18,057
No, just kidding. Um...
413
00:29:18,123 --> 00:29:22,293
You know, it's life, no hard
feelings. I understand.
414
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,030
It's behind me now.
Hmm.
415
00:29:26,831 --> 00:29:29,171
I wasn't ready, he chose that.
416
00:29:30,335 --> 00:29:32,335
He needed to live his life
417
00:29:32,403 --> 00:29:34,943
and I think
it was hurting him too.
418
00:29:35,006 --> 00:29:39,006
But I wish that he'd just told
me that instead of just
419
00:29:39,077 --> 00:29:42,347
stop answering and stop writing.
420
00:29:42,413 --> 00:29:45,183
It was really painful for me.
421
00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:47,890
I felt like I was losing
my best friend.
422
00:30:11,543 --> 00:30:16,113
- I wanted to work
because it makes your time fly
so much more.
423
00:30:17,615 --> 00:30:21,985
Once you have, I think it's two
years after your sentence,
424
00:30:22,053 --> 00:30:24,863
you can apply and write
to the commissioner,
425
00:30:24,923 --> 00:30:29,133
and you can ask to be accepted
426
00:30:29,194 --> 00:30:31,634
on what's called
a work's release program,
427
00:30:31,696 --> 00:30:36,566
where they allow inmates
to go outside to work
428
00:30:36,634 --> 00:30:38,944
and reintegrate society.
429
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:51,580
- Yeah, I got an interview and
I got hired in a garage there.
430
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:53,179
(♪♪)
431
00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:56,819
It was called Rigoli.
432
00:30:56,888 --> 00:31:00,828
And it was in Kirrawee,
which is in Sutherland,
433
00:31:00,892 --> 00:31:03,702
it was very far.
I used to take the train.
434
00:31:03,761 --> 00:31:07,631
It was like a two-hour ride
to go.
435
00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:11,739
So yeah, I would wake up at 4:30
to take the train a 5, 5:10.
436
00:31:11,803 --> 00:31:15,973
I would start at 8.
So it was a long ride.
437
00:31:17,809 --> 00:31:19,809
- It's not just given
to anybody.
438
00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:22,708
The jailees have to prove
themselves.
439
00:31:22,780 --> 00:31:28,150
And we employed Isabelle
and other people
through the program.
440
00:31:29,954 --> 00:31:32,964
- It was a garage where
the people get accidents
441
00:31:33,024 --> 00:31:34,664
and they make insurance claims
442
00:31:34,726 --> 00:31:36,896
and I got to like
answer phone calls,
443
00:31:36,961 --> 00:31:39,401
and it was so hectic,
super busy, I remember.
444
00:31:39,464 --> 00:31:43,304
And I wasn't used to this
anymore, real life.
445
00:31:43,368 --> 00:31:44,768
Crazy life.
446
00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:46,906
Phone is ringing,
people are calling,
447
00:31:46,971 --> 00:31:49,271
people are upset,
I'm like, using a computer,
448
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:51,840
I haven't used a computer
for like three years,
449
00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:53,750
and I was so nervous.
450
00:31:54,979 --> 00:31:57,649
- She was a pleasure,
she always was smiling,
451
00:31:57,715 --> 00:32:00,485
she was always...
She was going through
a rough time,
452
00:32:00,551 --> 00:32:03,321
but she always tried,
she never gave up.
453
00:32:16,367 --> 00:32:19,497
- There's confirmation
that Coronavirus
has reached Australia.
454
00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:22,340
- The number of infected people
on the Diamond Princess
455
00:32:22,407 --> 00:32:24,007
has tripled overnight.
456
00:32:24,075 --> 00:32:27,945
- The world will soon enter
a pandemic phase
of the Coronavirus.
457
00:32:28,846 --> 00:32:31,716
- Covid changed my life
458
00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:33,893
and the fact that I wasn't able
to go out working
459
00:32:33,952 --> 00:32:37,622
and it sucked because it was
such a great opportunity for me.
460
00:32:37,689 --> 00:32:40,219
You know, one morning they just
said, "You're not going."
461
00:32:42,593 --> 00:32:45,763
- So it was very restrictive
in terms of
462
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:47,930
how outside people interact
with the prison,
463
00:32:47,999 --> 00:32:50,029
how the prisoners interact
with each other.
464
00:32:53,071 --> 00:32:57,211
- The jail would not accept
any visitors.
465
00:32:57,275 --> 00:33:01,345
But they invested in tablets
466
00:33:01,412 --> 00:33:04,052
and we could have Zoom visits
with our family.
467
00:33:04,115 --> 00:33:07,085
And it would also include
people from overseas.
468
00:33:13,424 --> 00:33:17,164
- I was able to have two visits
during the week
if I wasn't working,
469
00:33:17,228 --> 00:33:19,898
but it was good to be able
to see my family face to face,
470
00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:22,004
and everybody's changing...
471
00:33:22,066 --> 00:33:23,996
It was just good to see them.
472
00:33:25,036 --> 00:33:27,666
(soft music)
473
00:33:27,739 --> 00:33:29,869
It was the pandemic,
474
00:33:29,941 --> 00:33:31,811
so I didn't meet
the parole board
475
00:33:31,876 --> 00:33:34,206
or parole officer
but she called me.
476
00:33:34,278 --> 00:33:37,578
And started asking questions
and stuff,
477
00:33:37,648 --> 00:33:39,748
and it's getting real,
you know?
478
00:33:39,817 --> 00:33:41,787
It was, I think it was...
479
00:33:41,853 --> 00:33:44,323
maybe 10 months
before my release or something.
480
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:46,489
And then I was like,
you know,
481
00:33:46,557 --> 00:33:47,887
maybe they're not
gonna release me,
482
00:33:47,959 --> 00:33:49,589
because that's
my non-parole period,
483
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:52,730
I'm like, maybe they're gonna
say, "No, you're staying
another year" you know?
484
00:33:52,797 --> 00:33:55,827
I was ready for this, 'cause
that was a possibility.
485
00:33:56,834 --> 00:33:59,204
So yeah,
I just didn't believe it.
486
00:34:00,038 --> 00:34:01,308
But it happened.
487
00:34:09,514 --> 00:34:11,584
- When she told me,
I was ecstatic.
488
00:34:11,649 --> 00:34:13,519
I lost my-- I was...
(indistinct)
489
00:34:23,795 --> 00:34:27,365
- International travellers
return to a lot of changes
at the airport.
490
00:34:27,432 --> 00:34:30,842
After a Covid test, they have
to go to a hotel for three days.
491
00:34:30,902 --> 00:34:32,802
And no one's very happy
about it.
492
00:34:32,870 --> 00:34:36,370
- So, I guess for her, that
would've been almost like going
into another prison,
493
00:34:36,441 --> 00:34:41,051
but one that was slightly
more luxurious I guess.
494
00:34:42,113 --> 00:34:44,483
- It was like $900
for three days.
495
00:34:44,549 --> 00:34:46,579
With gross food.
496
00:34:46,651 --> 00:34:50,151
And it was freezing cold,
you know like, 27th of February,
497
00:34:50,221 --> 00:34:52,521
it was like the first time
in years that I'd seen snow.
498
00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:54,360
And I was freezing.
499
00:34:54,425 --> 00:34:58,495
But yeah, I was just happy
to be in my country.
500
00:34:58,563 --> 00:35:00,363
(♪♪)
501
00:35:01,766 --> 00:35:04,036
(soft music)
502
00:35:41,806 --> 00:35:44,676
- I could just get home,
chill a little bit,
503
00:35:44,742 --> 00:35:46,512
breathe and just...
504
00:35:46,577 --> 00:35:49,047
take time to think what I wanna
do without the stress
505
00:35:49,113 --> 00:35:51,653
of going to work straight away,
you know?
506
00:36:21,212 --> 00:36:24,952
- I don't know what makes him
think that I will come back
with him, I mean...
507
00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:27,886
I felt hurt, I felt...
508
00:36:27,952 --> 00:36:30,492
Why can't you be there for me?
509
00:36:30,555 --> 00:36:33,215
And now you want me back?
No, sorry,
510
00:36:33,291 --> 00:36:35,991
I can't go back. So...
511
00:36:48,606 --> 00:36:53,206
- He's my friend, he's been
there at the very worst time
of my life,
512
00:36:53,277 --> 00:36:55,707
but yeah, I just can't go back
to my past life,
513
00:36:55,780 --> 00:36:58,080
I gotta leave my past behind
and move on.
514
00:36:58,149 --> 00:37:00,989
(soft music)
515
00:37:09,126 --> 00:37:12,226
(birds chirping)
516
00:37:23,975 --> 00:37:26,035
I feel a lot of judgement,
517
00:37:26,110 --> 00:37:30,550
I feel a lot of whispering
and curiosity.
518
00:37:31,749 --> 00:37:33,249
Yeah, I can feel it.
519
00:37:34,952 --> 00:37:36,452
It's destroyed my life
520
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,860
and those around me were
pretty affected by this.
521
00:37:42,326 --> 00:37:47,266
Job-wise and to get
an apartment as well...
522
00:37:48,299 --> 00:37:51,069
I was aware that it would be
another fight.
523
00:37:51,135 --> 00:37:56,165
But I didn't know
that it would be this hard.
524
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,210
I opened a bank account
and they did some research
afterward,
525
00:37:59,277 --> 00:38:01,147
and they closed it.
526
00:38:01,212 --> 00:38:04,222
They said that
the risk was too high,
527
00:38:04,282 --> 00:38:09,092
because I was taking part
in criminal activity.
528
00:38:09,153 --> 00:38:11,663
Yeah, true story.
529
00:38:11,722 --> 00:38:14,432
I'm not gonna say which bank,
but uh,
530
00:38:14,492 --> 00:38:16,862
it's pretty frustrating.
531
00:38:18,429 --> 00:38:21,469
I'm not saying I'm not done
paying what I did,
532
00:38:21,532 --> 00:38:23,772
it's a very serious crime.
533
00:38:25,436 --> 00:38:31,036
But it sucks because I'm trying
to get back on my feet
534
00:38:31,108 --> 00:38:34,648
and move on from this story
535
00:38:34,712 --> 00:38:37,822
and people are closing doors
in my face because of...
536
00:38:38,683 --> 00:38:42,053
the media attention
that the whole case got.
537
00:38:45,489 --> 00:38:47,219
- Yeah, I mean it's just
538
00:38:47,291 --> 00:38:53,001
the natural consequences
of committing a crime, one,
539
00:38:53,064 --> 00:38:57,904
and the natural consequences
in direct effect
540
00:38:57,968 --> 00:39:01,138
of being reported in the media.
541
00:39:04,275 --> 00:39:06,905
- The crime and the punishment
tend to fit,
542
00:39:06,977 --> 00:39:09,447
most of time there's
a high correlation there.
543
00:39:09,513 --> 00:39:11,983
And yes, we write about
the times that they're not
correlated,
544
00:39:12,049 --> 00:39:14,119
and that's what makes good
narratives and stories.
545
00:39:14,185 --> 00:39:17,185
But most of the time,
those fit.
546
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:20,792
You know, we all make mistakes
in life, all of us.
547
00:39:20,858 --> 00:39:24,358
The only difference is
some of us pay a different cost
than others.
548
00:39:25,196 --> 00:39:27,296
My biggest issue with that was,
549
00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:29,495
once she comes back to Montreal
or Canada,
550
00:39:29,567 --> 00:39:31,767
which I knew would be the day
after she got her parole,
551
00:39:31,836 --> 00:39:34,206
'cause Australia wasn't gonna
keep her there,
552
00:39:34,271 --> 00:39:37,711
it was... what next?
Right?
553
00:39:37,775 --> 00:39:41,975
And that's almost as daunting
as the time served incarcerated.
554
00:39:42,046 --> 00:39:45,376
Now, you Google my name when
I'm just trying to get a job
555
00:39:45,449 --> 00:39:48,289
after I paid the price,
556
00:39:48,352 --> 00:39:50,292
how long do you pay
the price for?
557
00:39:53,424 --> 00:39:55,994
These are large
existential questions
558
00:39:56,060 --> 00:39:59,660
that I don't believe lawmakers
and the criminal justice systems
559
00:39:59,730 --> 00:40:01,570
ever take into account.
560
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:05,140
- She's not just what she did.
561
00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:10,244
You know, when one person
tells you or you hear
562
00:40:10,307 --> 00:40:13,037
of one person judging you...
563
00:40:14,478 --> 00:40:16,948
Can you imagine having
30,000 people,
564
00:40:17,014 --> 00:40:19,524
300,000 people judging you now?
565
00:40:22,019 --> 00:40:24,189
Try it at home.
566
00:40:26,056 --> 00:40:28,726
(♪♪)
567
00:41:17,641 --> 00:41:20,951
- It was doomed for fire
from the beginning.
568
00:41:21,011 --> 00:41:24,011
And I'm sure she's learned
a lot of lessons.
569
00:41:24,081 --> 00:41:27,321
And it's a shame they had to go
through what they went through.
570
00:41:29,019 --> 00:41:30,789
You know.
571
00:41:30,855 --> 00:41:34,385
At the end of the day, to me,
in my eyes, they're still kids.
572
00:41:34,458 --> 00:41:35,828
- Yeah.
573
00:41:35,893 --> 00:41:37,963
- Uh, and they're not bad kids,
they're good kids.
574
00:41:38,929 --> 00:41:39,829
You know.
575
00:41:39,897 --> 00:41:41,997
But they did
the wrong thing.
576
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:47,003
Yeah. Anyhow, that's how it is.
577
00:41:47,071 --> 00:41:49,641
(bright music)
578
00:41:50,908 --> 00:41:54,608
- This story changed me
completely actually.
579
00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:57,478
I mean, I don't know who I would
be today or where I would be
580
00:41:57,548 --> 00:41:59,948
if I didn't get caught,
you know?
581
00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:03,087
I would probably be a big
asshole with a lot of money.
582
00:42:03,153 --> 00:42:05,963
Probably end up in Asia
somewhere.
583
00:42:06,023 --> 00:42:09,263
You know, executed, so,
584
00:42:09,326 --> 00:42:13,496
I got caught in a beautiful
country with great values.
585
00:42:13,564 --> 00:42:16,034
And good prison conditions.
586
00:42:17,334 --> 00:42:21,114
And it changed me
for the best.
587
00:42:24,041 --> 00:42:27,281
This lifestyle is behind me,
I just want peace and quiet.
588
00:42:28,279 --> 00:42:31,579
I just want to buy myself
a house
589
00:42:31,649 --> 00:42:34,819
and lock myself in
and just have peace.
590
00:42:34,885 --> 00:42:36,845
I just wanna have peace.
591
00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:39,591
But um, yeah, just...
592
00:42:39,657 --> 00:42:41,987
Normal life.
593
00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:45,500
Friends, family, travel.
594
00:42:45,563 --> 00:42:48,573
And no luggage full of cocaine,
just...
595
00:42:50,601 --> 00:42:52,841
Just peace of mind. Hmm.
596
00:42:52,903 --> 00:42:52,943
(♪♪)
597
00:43:08,218 --> 00:43:09,848
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