Original subtitles

♪♪

>> Let's take a car

to the city instead of flying.

>> What's underneath us?

Look, if the U.S. attorney

is really coming,

maybe it's better

if we don't make you

more of a target.

And more important, Garth Sykes,

from Flagship.

He did see you on the cover

of the Post, that --

oceanfront mansion.

Teachers in that pension fund

make 40 grand a year.

>> People who have it spend it.

>> People who don't have it,

like Billy's better,

spend it on other folks,

charity, good works.

>> I do.

I have, and you know it.

>> Today, they only remember

the house.

>> Well, I have a feeling there

will be another one of us

on the front pages soon enough,

and they'll forget about that.

>> But if Flagship does try

and withdraw --

>> We can't let him.

If Flagship pulls its

1.5 billion, it gets public.

Other institutions go, too.

The whole thing could domino.

Get with Sykes.

Keep him onboard.

>> Which is why I'm telling you

to keep it a little more

low-key.

>> Who is more low-key than me?

>> ♪ Not that it's wrong ♪

♪ That it needs righting ♪

[ Applause ]

>> Oh, the episode you just saw

was written by Wes Jones,

who is here with us.

[ Applause ]

As you can tell

from what you've just seen,

Wes is a terrific writer.

He worked on the HBO series

"Brink" among other projects,

and he'll be back with season

two of "Billions."

Willie Reale here.

Willie's worked for a lot

of different television shows

including "Homicide:

Life on the Street,"

a number of others,

"Blue Bloods"

and now on "Billions."

Also too, he's also the founder

of a terrific organization

called The 52nd Street

Project here in New York,

which brings --

And now it's all over the world,

really, that brings theater

and puts actors

with young kids to make plays.

And they do incredible work,

especially with a lot

of underserved communities.

So just a little pitch

for The 52nd Street

Project there.

>> Thanks.

>> It's really great.

>> Anyway, well, that was

a really wonderful episode in

what's been

a wonderful season so far.

But I guess I want to kind of

roll back a little bit

and talk to both of you

how you get to the point where,

here you were on this hot

new hit

show shot here in New York.

I mean, Wes, you told me

something interesting

when we were back.

We were talking about it.

I said, "Well,

a lot of people here

are going to want to know

how you got in this business."

And I also mentioned that this

is our first time

out that this is being sponsored

by the Mayor's Office

of Media and Entertainment.

And, Wes, you said --

[ Chuckles ]

>> I said the first job

I ever got in the industry

as a PA was from The Mayor's

List.

in '99 when I first moved here,

and I was looking for work.

They had, you know,

listings of all the productions

and TV and independent

film and everything,

and I, you know, sent out

my info to them, got something.

It wasn't like a straight arrow

from there to "Billions," but --

[ Laughter ]

>> What was the production you

worked at?

>> I think it was

an independent film

that never came out called

"Get Well Soon."

No, no --

>> And it never did?

>> No, no. That one did.

I don't even remember

what it was called.

>> "DOA."

[ Laughter ]

>> But I'm curious about that,

too.

I mean, we've talked

a little bit about this.

And becoming a producer,

writer for series television,

it's not exactly like you decide

to go to law school

to become a lawyer or a CPA

or an engineer.

Willie, can you give us,

like, just the arc?

>> Yes, I can.

There's no set way

to go about it.

Everybody has his own

or her own path to it.

Mine was really circuitous.

I started as an actor,

and I was clawing my way

to the middle.

And then I couldn't sleep

one night,

and a friend of mine

had encouraged me to write

because he found me amusing.

And he said, "Write me a role."

And I said, "All right, Ben."

And I just wrote

this 20-page play.

I just had this little moment.

And the play was done

at Circle Rep,

which is now defunct,

but it was an Off-Broadway

theater back in the day.

And I was doing a production

of "Servant of Two Masters"

in Ohio,

and I get a phone call

from this ICM agent saying,

"Is this Willie Reale?"

It was 9:00 in the morning.

"Is this Willie Reale?"

I said, "Yes, it is."

He said, "You know,

my name is Luis Sanjurjo."

He was a good agent

who's since passed.

"And I saw your little play

last night."

>> He said little?

>> It was short.

[ Laughter ]

"And I want to talk to you about

the rest of your career."

And so this guy

was taking me more seriously

than my acting agent was.

And so, you know,

I went and had lunch with him,

and he said, "You know,

you really have a voice,"

and all this stuff

that you want to hear.

And he started to rep me.

And then, simultaneously,

I went to work at

The 52nd Street Project.

I fell into these kids,

and I founded this thing.

And then, 18 years later,

I...

You know, my wife got pregnant,

and I needed to make some dough.

And I had a friend who worked

on "Homicide"

working for Fontana, and he --

>> Tom Fontana.

>> Yeah, Tom Fontana.

>> Is kind of a legend

in the television business

and has kind of mentored scores

of great writers.

>> So this guy, Jim Yoshimura,

had been a volunteer writer

at The 52nd Street Project

and always liked me

and always liked my writing.

And he's one of these,

like, Chicago guys,

and he's, you know, really loyal

and said, "Willie,

when you need some money,

you let me know, and I'm going

to...

When you're ready

to make the jump into TV,

you let me know."

And so, you know,

my wife got pregnant,

and I said,

"Jim, today's the day.

Let's go."

And so he got me

a script assignment,

which was essentia-- You know,

they were making 22 episodes.

You know, it's the Bataan

Death March,

those, you know, network shows.

You know, you get to episode 17.

You're like, "Okay.

There's a perp.

You know, I don't know!"

And so, you know, the staff

was absolutely depleted,

and I came on.

Fontana calls me up,

the head guy,

and he says, "All right, Willie.

Here's your story."

And he and Eric Overmyer

marched me

through 13 story points.

That was it.

And he said, "You got it?

You know what happens?"

And I said, "Well,

I know 13 things that happen."

He said, "Good.

That's enough. You just fill out

the rest from there.

We usually give a guy two weeks

to bring it in,

but we're really behind,

so you've got a week."

And I said, "Okay, Tom.

I'll do my best."

He said, "Yeah. Do that."

And I hung up the phone,

and I started to write.

And I wrote, and I wrote,

and I wrote,

and I wrote a good episode.

And so I was able to,

you know, deliver for him.

And then Jim Yoshimura said,

"All right. Now,

you're going to meet my agent."

And so I go over to...

And he's with the evil empire,

I mean,

the wonderful people at CAA.

[ Laughter ]

And I met this guy, Joe Cohen,

who was sort of

a mid-level agent.

Now he's got the corner office

and all, and, you know

he's a great agent.

And so, Joe read my work

and thought that...

You know, I was here.

I wasn't like the normal guy.

You know, I was 40 years old.

I had written musicals.

I had won a MacArthur for,

you know, for the work

I did with the kids.

And so I was an interesting

candidate

who could manage people,

and I had, you know,

skills that were beyond,

you know,

a degree and a BFA.

And so he was interested

in what I had to say

because I was sort of bringing

a life

to it the work that other people

probably couldn't do.

And I've been in and out of TV

and theater ever since,

and that's how I got there.

>> So, Wes, your turn.

>> Oh, how can I follow that?

[ Chuckles ]

I thought you were going to say

you hung up the phone

and started to cry.

Started to write.

So I wrote, a few years ago,

like, 2009 or so,

I wrote a script called

"College Republicans."

And it ended up being on

The Black List,

but that was much later.

At the time, I was --

I wrote it at night.

I had a day job. I wasn't --

>> What is The Black List?

>> Oh, The Black List is sort of

a annual competition

or a vote by Hollywood

industry people on what

the best unproduced script

of the year is.

And so it's typically, like,

all the things development

execs read, the best thing

to come across their desk

that they, you know,

couldn't get made or, you know,

really want to crow about.

And it's become, like,

a sort of a launching

emerging writers

sort of platform.

But, yeah, I basically wrote

the script without an agent,

without any connections

in the industry,

and I knew about

10 people around town

that had agents or, you know,

knew or were hooked in some way.

And I gave them the script

and asked

if they could pass it on,

and none of them did.

>> Not one?

>> Not at first.

I had to pester them.

But because there were 10,

I could pester one person a day

without...cycling back

to bugging the same person

once every 10 days.

But eventually, it got read,

and my current manager,

Ken Freimann

at Circle of Confusion,

he got ahold of it.

And on the phone, you know,

he wants to, like, represent me.

He wants me to come out there.

He says, like,

"This is the best script

I've read all year,

and you've got

to come out here."

And I'm thinking, like,

"Is he trying to molest me?"

[ Laughter ]

"Is he asking for payment

for this? What's going on?"

Because

it just didn't make sense.

It didn't, like, really add up.

And it just seems like that's

what you tell everybody

who's fresh off the boat.

You know, but I went out to L.A,

and I did, like, you know,

30 meetings in 5 days

or something or 10 days.

And I met

with one person at Sony,

like, a development exec,

and all these people

had read my script by then.

And she said,

"This script is...

You know, you're going

to get work off this for years."

And I just thought she was

so full of [bleep],

that this is just what they say.

But that actually happened.

>> How old were you at the time

when you made that trip?

>> You know, it was 6 years ago,

so we'll call it early 30s.

>> And it should be noted that

Wes was making arty

wedding videos.

>> That was my job at the time.

I went from Mayor's List PA

to doing the wedding films

to writing at night.

And the funny thing

about the script that I wrote,

it's basically

about the first campaign

of Karl Rove in 1973.

And it's sort of reimagined

as a buddy comedy,

an origin story into evil

for Karl Rove

and another famed political

consultant, Lee Atwater.

And it just touched

a nerve in some way.

And I don't know.

It's like one of those

lightning-in-a-bottle things.

You can't really quantify it,

but ever since, you know...

Everybody

who read that script loved it,

and then it put a stamp

on my head of,

like, their bosses telling them

and them hearing from peers,

like, "Oh, this guy's good,

and you should listen to him."

And all of a sudden,

I was saying

all the exact same things I said

before and all the same ideas

I had that didn't work.

All of a sudden,

everybody loved them.

There's, like, this kind

of groupthink mentality.

And if you find a way

to crack it through,

like, hard work, or luck

or some combination of the two,

then, you know,

you can get to work

with some great people.

>> Terrific. I'm wondering, too.

Like, Willie, I know you just

had about a year of college,

and you were in the world

working and acting

and writing plays.

Wes, was there something in your

educational background that --

>> I went to art school.

I have a BFA.

[ Laughter ]

I went to Minneapolis College

of Art and Design,

and I moved to the city

right after I graduated

because, you know,

I wanted to make it

and be a writer-director

and rule the world and all that.

And it didn't work out at all.

[ Laughter ]

And so I was like a 10-year

overnight success.

And the script that I wrote

that everybody read and loved,

it was not the first one,

you know.

I wrote many scripts, many that

I never even showed to anyone

because I was afraid, you know.

But in a way,

that's kind of good

because the one that you really

get out there

and harass your 10 friends

with connections about,

you know, you want to make sure

that it's representing

the best you, not just now,

but the best you

that's going to be, you know.

So I always tell people that,

that it's like,

if you have your one script

that's your masterpiece,

put it aside

and write the next one because,

you know, it'll only be better.

>> Absolutely.

I say to young writers

all the time that that's...

The move to make is

to not spend too much time

perfecting that one script.

Write it until you're done

with it, and write

another one right away.

Hurry up because you learned

something from the first one

that you're going to apply

to the second one.

And then,

once you get into number four

and five, you'll really begin

to understand

the geography of a screenplay,

if that's what you're writing,

or a TV show.

>> Another thing I always tell

beginning writers

is it always helps

to write something

based on a true story

or about known characters or

even known fictional characters

reimagined in a different way

like somebody

from the public domain,

like Robin Hood or whatever,

because it grabs...

if you're looking

for attention in the industry,

that's a thing to do because

people

don't want to read scripts.

And they read through,

and it becomes work.

It becomes like,

"Oh, who's Steve again?

I've got to turn back five pages

to his introduction." You know?

And so you've already crossed

that hurdle if it's about people

they've heard of

who are from history

or from the news

or something like that.

>> Jumping forward a little bit

to now,

to "Billions,"

really fascinating show.

I'm curious about,

and I know, Willie,

you've worked on other shows

produced here in New York.

Talk about "Billions"

and about kind of the challenges

and opportunities

about shooting here in New York.

>> The challenges only have

to do with the weather,

when the weather's not good,

and the opportunities

are myriad.

First of all,

there's so many landscapes

in New York.

You go a half hour upstate

into Westchester

to Rockland County,

and it's a bucolic setting.

In episode five, we shot

Long Island for Iowa,

and it's totally,

totally believable.

You know, this town

is so film-friendly that,

you know, you get

your truck permits

and all that stuff easily.

And, you know, the rails are

just greased for all that.

And you can

get great crews here.

And most importantly,

the acting pool here

is just superb,

and you can't replicate

it anywhere but in L.A.

And in L.A,

and I'm just going to say this,

people have done so much

TV that they feel like TV.

In New York, people, you know,

they're doing theater and film

and television all the time,

and all the faces

just seem fresher.

They're edgier.

And you just get more,

you know, crayons in your box

to work with,

and it's thrilling.

>> Wes, I mean,

in a way, too, I mean, New York,

and the financial community

and just this whole kind

of energy really looms large

in "Billions."

I mean, it's like the city

really is a character.

How does that...

And also, both of you being

New York writers

for some time now,

how does that fit into

the writer's process

when you're thinking

things through?

>> Well, I think, for us,

it was less

a matter of the city itself

as a character of just being

very close to the world

which we were trying to portray

and, you know,

having that access to people

from that world

from like Wall Street

and from law enforcement

and the U.S. Attorney's Office

come into the writers' room

and get to hear their

experiences

and firsthand what it's like

to be in that world

and then be able to go out

and film in and around

some of those same places,

I think, just brings

a real authenticity to the world

we're trying to portray.

>> I mean, you're dealing

with this world of high finance.

I mean, that's not the world

you guys come from.

I know that one

of the executive produ--

[ Laughs ]

I keep waiting for you

to invite me on your private jet

to go see Metallica.

I guess how

do you educate yourself on that?

And how do you make,

in a sense, "high finance"?

I mean, how do you make numbers?

How do you make "Billions"

compelling storytelling?

>> Well, the stakes are high.

Millions of dollars

are traded every day.

There's good guys

and bad guys and all of that.

And all you need to do is...

I mean,

I have a subscription to

The Wall Street Journal,

and they write about

the good guys and the bad guys.

And sometimes,

they're a little bit of both.

So I dug into the paper

pretty good.

And then, as Wes said,

we had these guests

come in that were...

And we'll have a lot

more this year

because we're kind of popular.

I mean, like,

the people on Wall Street

are watching our show.

"Oh, it's about us."

[ Laughter ]

And so, you know,

they are going to come in,

and they are going

to tell us their stories.

And that's going to be,

you know, those will be

entertaining lunches

and entertaining episodes.

That's what's going to happen

because they really are going

to want to talk.

I know they are.

>> So part of your job,

it's almost you guys

are reporters.

I mean, and one of the executive

producers

is Aaron Ross Sorkin and --

>> Andrew.

>> Andrew. Excuse me.

Andrew.

A different Sorkin.

Andrew Ross Sorkin, thank you.

>> When somebody types

in Sorkin,

it comes up on the wrong --

>> Anyway, but, you know,

who's --

>> He's provided

incredible access.

We've had how many billionaires?

Like, a half a dozen

billionaires

came in to have lunch with us.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> And, you know,

he knows these guys,

and he writes about them,

and they all, I repeat,

they all answer the call

when The New York Times calls.

That happens.

So he's got incredible access.

And you get them in the room

for a little while,

and, you know,

they reveal

themselves beautifully.

It's really fun to be around.

>> One billionaire who will go

unnamed let us

in on the term "billies."

He referred to billionaires

as billies and said,

"A billy doesn't like

to hang out with other billies

because then he's not

the center of attention."

[ Laughter ]

>> Then he, like,

dipped into the sushi

like he didn't say anything.

You know, it was great.

>> How do you keep

a straight face?

>> You just nod, think,

"Using it. Using it."

>> Have there been times...

I mean, with what we see here,

I mean, this is, I mean,

there's a lot of excess

in this show,

and there's a lot of ego.

Are you getting...

Has that happened where

somebody said, "Wait a second.

How did you know that?" Or --

>> I've had one experience.

You know, I'm on the board of

The 52nd Street Project,

which continues to thrive,

and one of the finance people

came to me and said,

"How did you know that?"

And it wasn't true.

He thought that we were writing

about a friend of his,

and it wasn't.

>> In a way, it's kind of like

a "lessons learned,"

where you are now.

You know, you're on a show.

You're working

with incredible actors.

You got picked up

for another season.

I mean, kind of looking back

at the prism of your careers

and where you are now,

what's the kind of advice

you would give to somebody

starting out, somebody who's...

whether they're a student

or they're in that PA job

like you were

once upon a time, Wes?

I mean, what's the most

valuable piece of advice

if you want to end up being

a co-executive producer

or a writer

on a really compelling series?

>> Well, if you want...

I'll start it.

I mean, if you want to write TV

or you want to write film,

you've got to write.

It sounds stupid, but it's true.

You just have to get up and...

Because if you're a waiter

and all you do is wait

on tables, then you're a waiter.

But if you get up every morning,

and you write

and you're a waiter,

then you're a writer

who happens to have to wait.

But unless you're writing

all the time,

then you can't expect good

things to happen, number one,

and secondly,

you're not really a writer.

You're just someone that

wishes they were doing that.

You know, you need a pencil.

It's not a complicated machine,

but...

And you need some ideas,

and you need to express them.

And sometimes, that requires --

Not sometimes, all the time,

it requires discipline.

I get up super early.

I get up so early because

that's when I'm able to focus.

And I would prefer to be asleep.

But if I sleep,

then I don't get anything...

You know what I mean?

It's so simple.

But if you want to make

a living expressing yourself,

then you have to continually

explore that

and express yourself.

Amen.

>> Very good.

[ Applause ]

>> I'll just add, also,

be smart.

Be smart. Read a lot.

Read as much as you can about

current events, about the world.

Know the way things work,

you know, and live life.

Be, like,

a good functional human,

a go-getter that knows stuff.

>> When you're working,

for example, when the PAs,

the junior people on a set,

what makes somebody

good at that?

What's going to get...

How is somebody

going to get your attention,

the attention of

the executive producer of --

>> Just being smart and just

knowing

what you need before you need it

and getting it for you, doing it

and just that anticipation

and that willingness to do

whatever without hesitation.

That's the most important thing

in terms of, like,

what impresses,

you know, from a low-level job.

It's not that sense of, like,

"I don't belong here,"

or, "I'm just biding my time

for the next thing to move up

the ladder or whatever,"

but presence, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Be present in the moment.

>> Yeah, be on the rung you're

on

because we know that we...

[ Chuckles ]

You know, you get to, you know,

some vaunted title,

which they hand out.

Believe me.

But, you know,

you get a big title, and, like,

I know that you

want to be doing what I'm doing.

I know that. It's clear to me.

But in fact, what I really

need you to right now

is take really good notes

in the room so that,

when I go over them later,

I can, like, make sense of them,

and then

they will be useful to me.

Or thank you.

How did you know

that I needed coffee?

Was it because my eyelids

were going down?

I mean, anybody

that can anticipate, you know,

what is going to help me

is going to get my attention

and subsequently,

will get my sympathy

or my interest

when we get to the point

in our relationship,

which is usually down the road,

where

I'm going to read your script

and tell you what it looks like,

tell you how I feel about it.

>> We have some questions

from the audience.

Please come to the microphone,

and if you can,

identify yourself.

>> Hi. I'm from the Bronx.

I usually don't have to speak

into a microphone to be heard.

But, yeah, my name is Joe Rosen.

I think this is wonderful.

My son is out in L.A.

for the last 4 1/2 years

with his MIT degree,

go figure, I mean,

but pursuing his passion.

The question is,

how much of your success,

Willie and Wes, I mean,

do you attribute to luck?

I mean, it's a tough question,

and I know the old saying,

"The harder you work,

the luckier you get," and so on.

But how much is luck?

And if it's an unfair question,

forgive me.

>> I will say yeah.

I wonder about that myself.

You know, you waffle towards...

I mean, I kind of have

come around to the belief

that luck happens to the people

who deserve to be lucky,

you know, because

the script that I wrote

that launched my career,

I just happened to see

a documentary on TV

one night about Lee Atwater,

one of the guys

I wrote the script about,

and I didn't know

a lot about him.

And I saw that, and, you know,

it sparked something.

Now, it was

a PBS "Frontline" show.

They don't air

that all the time.

What if I hadn't been

watching TV that night?

What if I had decided to write

and, you know, be productive?

[ Laughs ]

You know, I --

>> The moral of the story

is watch more TV.

>> Especially "Billions."

>> I think there's not a lot

of luck involved.

I mean, I think,

in certain areas of...

Like, there are lucky actors,

actors that I look at and think,

"I really don't know why

you're a famous person.

I don't get it."

I think there are some

super lucky politicians,

and many of them

are getting attention now.

>> Trump! Excuse me.

>> But no.

I mean, as, you know,

at a certain level,

the goods are the goods

for writers.

And, you know,

after a certain amount of time,

you know, the cream

does sort of bubble up.

I believe that.

>> Other questions?

I can keep...

Please go to the microphone

for your question, please.

>> I'm a little short. Hi.

My name is Wendy Seib.

I'm a director-

writer-choreographer.

I just wanted to find out

how you guys came together

into "Billions" and how it...

sort of the inception of it.

>> Well, Brian Koppelman

and David Levien wrote a pilot

for Showtime that Showtime loved

and they casted

with these great actors,

and they ordered it to series.

And at that point,

the show runners

try to surround themselves

with colleagues

and writers that they think

are going to help them

deliver the 12 episodes

that they need to to fully

realize

their vision for the story.

And at that time, they put

together a writers' room,

and, you know, through word

of mouth and, you know,

scripts that they read

of submissions from agents,

they hit on a staff.

And Willie had

a prior relationship

with the guys, as we call them,

from working on past projects,

so they knew right away,

that Willie Reale was somebody

they wanted in that room.

And there were a few open spots

that they went out

and searched for people

that they hadn't worked

with before,

and I was one of those people.

They read my script,

met with me.

It all happened very fast

because

I don't follow the trades a ton.

So I didn't know that "Billions"

was a Showtime pilot

that existed.

I found out about it,

like, on a Friday.

I met with Brian

and David on Wednesday,

and then I was

in the writers' room

every day on Monday.

It was, like, less than 10 days.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

And I'd worked with those guys

on...

Actually, I interviewed

with them in 2006,

I think, for this show called

"Tilt," a limited series on ESPN

about poker,

and they didn't hire me.

And then they fired

their whole staff when

they got to about episode five,

and they were so screwed.

They were so far behind.

They were shooting in Toronto.

And Toronto -- bad.

New York -- good.

And so they were

like back and forth to Toronto.

They had scripts that...

So they got

three new writers in.

I was among them.

They had four more episodes

to write, and I wrote one,

and they were like,

"Phew! Thank you, Willie.

You saved the day."

I'm like, "Fellows, I

enjoyed"...

It was a whirlwind

because you had to, like, learn,

you know, poker terms

and all this stuff, you know,

And then the next script,

the script after mine, came in,

and it was a disaster.

It was an unqualified disaster,

and they called me up the day

after I had handed in my script,

after I'd, like,

really worked hard

for eight days to write it

because they were behind.

And they said, "Willie,

this script for episode

eight came in. It's a nightmare.

Can you help us, please?"

And I said, "Fellows,

when does it go

into preproduction?"

They said, "Thursday."

And it was Sunday night,

about 7:00.

And I said, "I will write

until Thursday."

And I wrote the [bleep]

out of that script.

It was really... I mean,

you know, blow my own horn,

but it was really good.

And, you know, they hugged me,

and they didn't forget.

So the minute

they got picked up,

they gave me a call, said,

"Willie, can you come?

Can you come?"

And I said, "Yeah."

>> Great. Great.

>> Gentleman over here.

>> Yes, how are you doing?

My name is Richard.

I'm also from the Bronx as well.

I'm currently in my first

semester at my college,

and I'm an aspiring screenwriter

for, like, the distant future.

And I also just wanted

to find out...

Hey, thanks.

How difficult is the process

of getting an agent

and just the process

in general of picking up

one or being noticed?

>> Want to go?

>> That's one of those things

that's a big question,

and it's different

for everybody.

Everybody has their own path.

I talked a little bit

about mine earlier,

and mine was something

that was akin

to lighting in a bottle.

It's hard to replicate.

My life changed overnight

with one script that I wrote.

But, I mean, as uncommon

as that might be,

it can happen. I mean, you know,

it's just a matter of getting

the right piece of material

that connects with people.

And anybody's capable

of doing it.

And if you live around movies

in New York for long enough,

even in the lower levels,

you come to find

that people you knew

have gone on to other places,

and there are people that you

can give your script to.

Some of your classmates

right now probably will be

in a position to help

any of you later on.

So it's about, like,

having those relationships

and, you know, not forgetting

about the interview

that didn't go well.

They didn't hire you,

Brian and David,

in that interview.

>> No.

>> But they called you back.

>> I didn't hold a grudge.

>> Yeah.

You didn't burn the bridge.

>> I needed a gig.

>> Exactly.

[ Laughter ]

>> Yeah, the agent thing

is a very tough question.

How do you get on the pile?

I don't know how you get

on the pile,

but I know that once...

All I can tell you

is write your best stuff,

and when it gets onto the pile,

and it will some way,

some odd way, get onto the pile.

You know,

if it pops, they'll notice.

I mean, the one thing that

I'm kind of confident

about is that,

if you write something good,

it won't be kept

a secret for long.

So focus on the work,

and the rest of the stuff

will come.

And I'm sorry,

but there is no real answer

about the agent thing.

I really don't believe there is.

>> Hi. My name is Sade.

This is to piggyback

of Max's question

when he was talking about,

how do you get to be

in the position

of being a show runner

or a writer on the set?

You say just be

really good at it,

but how do you get into that

position

to be the assistant to grow

and be really good at it?

Because to apply is just

not good enough these days,

to apply for the job, to be a PA

or a writer's assistant.

>> Well, are you...

You're talking about

getting the assistant job?

Or you're talking

about being a --

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

How do you get an assistant job?

I was never --

>> How do we get our assistants?

>> Brian's wife.

>> Yeah.

>> Somebody did proofreading

for her.

>> It's really a lot of that.

You know, like, we had this one

assistant on this other show

I was working on,

and she was somebody's nanny.

And that's how she, you know,

put her foot in the door.

On this other show

I was working on,

they had been through

a number of assistants,

and someone said to me,

"We're looking

for a new assistant."

And at the same time, that guy,

Jim Yoshimura,

that I was talking about

who gave me the gig,

his niece was moving into town

and looking

for an assistant job.

You know, and I said,

"We'll meet Yoshimura's..."

And, "Oh, yeah.

I've read his stuff.

He's really good."

And so, you know, she got in

because of literally nepotism.

>> But, however --

>> It's such a who you know --

>> I guarantee you that nanny

was impressive in some way --

>> Yeah.

>> With what they did

with the nannying or whatever.

I mean, you never know.

I mean, just be impressive

in everything you do

and be in the moment and do,

like, a really great job at it.

>> Yeah.

>> Don't kick it down the road.

And also be smart.

>> Yeah, if she were

a crappy nanny,

we wouldn't be talking

about her.

>> But how do you get

in that chair to be

considered as good or smart?

>> We really need you up

here on the mic.

>> She asked --

>> How do you get in the chair

to be at that point?

>> You find your way.

You know, I mean,

you just follow

the passion that you have.

I mean, my friend said to me,

"Willie, you're funny.

Write a play."

I'm like, "All right."

So I just took a flier.

It was one of those things,

and I gave it to him.

And he took it down

to Circle Rep,

and they did it, and then,

all of a sudden, I was a writer.

I mean, it was really just that.

>> Yeah.

Life's funny sometimes.

>> There's not a...

This is not

a prescriptive situation.

I can't say, "Okay.

Take two aspirin,

and then you'll be a writer."

But as Wes points out,

always be ready and always,

always, always do good work.

And really, that's true of,

like...

Oh, here's a good story.

Steve Olsen, the West Bank.

>> Sure.

>> Had, you know,

this aspiring writer

as a waiter at his place.

You know, and I met the guy,

and he was a really good waiter.

And, you know,

at the end of the night,

you'd say, "Thank you, Marc.

You're a good guy."

And then you learn

that Marc is a screenwriter

and blah, bl--

And so then somebody was looking

for an assistant somewhere,

and I said, "Oh, Marc."

And he was just, like,

being a good waiter.

But it just sort of, you know,

I just recognized him

as a useful guy.

>> And I will say,

when I say be smart,

life smarts goes much further

than book smarts, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean,

you can be an Ivy League,

you know,

student that doesn't know

how to grind coffee,

and that does not make

a good impression

on your employers, you know.

So yeah.

>> Yes, sir?

>> Hi.

My name is Soren Petu.

I'm actually one of the alumnis

from the original

Made in New York

PA Training Program,

and now I'm an associate

producer with the PGA.

So I do have much respect

for you, Wes.

My question is, as writers,

I know there's back and forth

with the studio

as far as creativity because

sometimes writers

are kept on a short leash,

and they can't do

whatever they want to do.

What is your relationship

with Showtime, the studio?

Do they let you just go for it,

"Write me anything"?

Or do they say, "You know --"

>> Have you seen the pilot

of this show?

[ Laughter ]

You've seen the first scene?

You might not.

>> Showtime is really supportive

of this show.

I can say that the notes

are smart.

This is not always the case,

but, you know, like, when I...

Rarely have I sat through

a note session --

and they're not, like,

heaving notes on you --

but rarely have I been

in a situation where

I'm just sitting there like,

"That's a pretty good idea,

David. You're right.

Yeah, we'll knock that out.

Oh, was that unclear?

Yeah, we can mop that up.

That's not a biggie."

You know, and so that

has not been the case with here.

Other times,

you just tear your hair out

because you feel like people

are giving you notes

because they want

to justify their position.

But Showtime has functioned

as a really good third eye

on this show.

And, you know, the creators

of the show are very, very,

very clear about,

you know, what the parameters

of the relationships in the show

are and what the standard

of drama is.

>> I'll add one thing

that's not about Showtime

because Showtime has been great

to work with.

Some studio notes

from my feature writing jobs

that I've gotten baffle

and confuse the -- out of you.

And you'll have this

initial thing

where it's like,

"Oh, my God, these horrible

hacks, an empty suit

trying to justify his position.

Right?

And they don't understand

what I'm going for at all."

But there is something there

because they didn't understand

what I was going for at all,

and they need to.

Somebody needs to.

So what you try to look for,

even in the worst note,

there is a note behind the note

that they don't have

the vocabulary to say.

There's something

that they're responding to

that's making them give you

this terrible note,

and you need to dig under it

and figure out what's behind it.

>> Gentleman over here.

>> Sure. Yeah.

Hi, guys. I'm Arnold.

I'm in my sophomore year

at the School

For Visual Arts doing film.

So my question

is how do you find jobs, like,

after you graduate into film?

Or, like, how much usually

is the pay cost usually, like,

if they pay you, for example,

Showtime or any other companies

or, like, stuff.

>> You're wondering

what an entry-level job

pays or --

>> Pays. Yeah, pays.

>> Well, it usually pays crap

at entry level,

I mean, you know,

because it's so competitive.

Like, you know,

all of you are going to be

competing for the same job,

and so they --

>> You're turning them against

each other, Willie.

>> So it's really --

I mean, you're going to be in

a four-roommate situation.

You know, hat's going to happen.

And you're going to be

reading the menu

from right to left.

You know, so just know that.

I mean, you know,

and you'll be happy

to have the job, and then,

when you perform really well,

then they'll give you a raise.

I mean, it's sort of like

anything else

except it's so competitive

that they take advantage.

I mean, they take advantage

of the fact that they can...

You know, there's somebody else

that wants your job right away.

>> I'll say another note

on entry-level stuff.

I'm reminded of a story

our colleague Peter Blake

told us about a bad

assistant he had

who wouldn't answer the phone

because this guy was told that,

if you answer phones,

that's all people

are going to see you as,

is someone who answers

the phone.

If anybody tells you that,

don't listen to them.

That's the worst advice

you've ever heard.

>> Okay. Over here.

>> Hi, I'm Brian Edgar.

I'm a screenwriter.

Wonderful show, "Billions."

I'm guessing there is

quite a narrative road map

for the first season

and now the second season.

How much discovery actually

happens

with each episode, though,

in terms of character arc,

narrative development,

plot twists and turns

in that larger spectrum

of the first season?

>> A lot of it

is mapped out in the room.

I mean, we sort of had tent-pole

events across the season

that the guys

knew that they wanted.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But the moment-to-moment

stories

and the general story arcs

for the individual episodes

were very much broken

in the room in a very,

very collaborative way.

And, you know, you just talk

and talk and talk

until someone goes [ Gasp ]

And then you get a card

on the board.

And if you get three [ Gasp ]s

in a day around the room,

that's pretty good.

Let's get three really

good cards up, maybe five.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> You know,

and then it really is...

You know, I mean,

it's kind of fascinating

to be writing, essentially,

a novel as a group.

>> Right.

>> And you're in a hurry

because, you know,

we're shooting soon, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

>> Oh, okay. Hi.

My name is Donna.

I work in mobile, digital,

social,

so my question pertains to that.

So Showtime is partnered

with Hulu,

and I think, you know, overall,

you see shows and entertainment

a lot having

really big digital partners.

So how has that, you know,

changed your process today

versus the writing process

you might've observed

four or five years ago

when digital wasn't quite

a big piece of the picture?

>> I'm going to go out on a limb

and say not at all

because it just doesn't...

That's more of, like,

about distribution.

The process of creation

is the same no matter

what, like,

the output medium is and the way

that people are seeing it.

Now, in terms of, like,

letting the audience

and having a conversation

with them about the process

as it's going on, like,

social media

has facilitated that a lot,

but I don't think it changes

the way we write episodes.

>> And I still say,

"I'm taping it."

[ Laughter ]

So I'm the wrong guy

for that question.

I don't understand.

I think it's great,

but I don't know what...

I'm not good at it.

[ Laughter ]

>> Right.

>> I'll take a quick stab

at that, but part of it

is I think it's less a factor

on a scripted drama than it

is when... I think

where you see the real impact

on that is on late-night

television or where

they're really thinking about,

"How is that going to clip out?

How is that bit going to work?"

I think it's true too with a lot

of comedies.

They use social media

in a very successful manner

to stay connected

to their audience.

I think it's a little bit less

so with this kind of a drama.

>> Yeah. Yes.

I just know from what

my kids d--

Like, my kids will look at,

like, little clips,

scenes from comedies, like, "Oh,

did you see this thing on --"

Or John, you know,

certainly John Oliver,

who gets, you know,

that great show that he makes.

And, you know,

there's just plenty of fun

to be had in small bites there.

>> Thank you. Gentleman here.

You've been waiting.

Okay. Go. All right.

We're going to finish up

with the three people

who are in line here.

>> Yeah? Okay.

Well, nice to meet you.

Nice to be here

sharing the episode

and your insights here.

My name is Jacob.

I'm from Spain.

I graduated a month ago

in December, actually.

I'm working now

as a PA for Marvel,

and my question is,

as an aspiring writer,

what would you recommend

while being a PA,

which is more in field

kind of work

and wanted to transition

into writers' office,

if that's worth it

or if it's better to do

what you did, your own way,

try to find an agent

and not going

through writer's assistant

but as an actual writer

with an agent?

And --

>> Yeah.

Do both if you can.

Do your job in the day

and have another one at night

or early in the morning,

whatever works best for you.

But I do...

There is that question of,

like, "Do you want to be

in the office

in production, or do

you want to be on the field?"

I do feel like being, like,

a field PA, like,

locking up the sidewalk

or whatever,

especially on smaller films

where it's not an army

where you really get to see

what the different people do

and talk to the gaffer and all

that is really invaluable

experience in terms of, like,

seeing how

a professional production works.

But it's also like

there's a cap to it.

There's not much of a ladder

out of being a set PA.

And so, once you have that

under your belt, yeah,

it may be better

to be in development

at a production company

or on a TV show

as an office PA or whatever.

Then, you get to see

a different side of it.

And, you know, it's where

your interest is, basically.

>> But to Wes's point,

be the best PA possible.

Just be the great--

And, like, everybody, like,

"God, that guy's really good."

And then, when the producer

comes over, say, "You know what?

You're really --

Thank you so much"

at the wrap party.

"You were so sunny.

You're just a really good spirit

on the set and thanks a lot."

To which you say to him,

"Thank you very much.

And you know what?

If there's ever an opening

in the office, let me know."

>> Thank you.

>> Over here.

>> Thank you guys for coming.

My name is Frank Gresham.

I'm a faculty member

here at SVA.

and two questions.

One is, in the old days,

when I was growing up, you know,

most television shows

were stand-alones.

They weren't

typically serialized.

And suddenly, the paradigm's

completely changed,

and now all the big hit

shows seem to be serialized.

I'd like to hear more from you,

and the screenwriter

a moment ago touched on it

with more of sort of

a sophisticated question,

but for the lay person

seeking to understand

how you guys go about

building a series,

how does the individual writer

figure into building a series?

What are the different

components of building a series?

You know, how do you start?

And then my second question is,

if you were to deconstruct

the talents

of a good scriptwriter,

does it come down

to cinematographer,

being a good cinematographer,

understanding the structure

of a story?

Does it come down to being

a good conversationalist

and knowing

how to write good conversation?

But either or both questions.

I'll take whatever you got.

>> Okay.

A writers' room is like

a potluck supper.

Wes is a really good story man.

I'm kind of like

a C-plus story guy,

but I can put some sparkle

on the stuff.

You know,

you can feel us right now.

I write like I'm like.

He writes like he's like.

You know what I mean?

And so when you're putting

together a writers' room,

you're casting a room

full of people that

are going to have some sort of,

"That guy makes great

potato salad.

We're going to need

his potato salad."

And that's what happens.

And it's the show runners

dictate all this stuff.

So Brian and David

have a sense of what they need,

which is ever evolving

because they figured out

some stuff in the first season.

They know what they need now.

I think we have a writer

who's a lawyer

coming on next season.

That's what I'm told.

And that guy's going to

be really useful

when we're trying to figure out

strategies

for the U.S. Attorney's Office

and stuff like that.

>> So the show runners

formulate the basic story arc?

>> Generally speaking, yeah.

>> They have the ultimate say

in what goes into the show

and what doesn't.

I mean, they are moderating

the discussion.

They are the leaders.

They are the generals

of the thing.

Everybody has ideas,

and they're the ones that decide

if this is a "Billions" thing

that's going to be in the show,

that it works or not.

They have

to have the global view.

You have to have the small view

of moments and developments.

And then everybody,

like we said earlier,

you talk to it all out.

You get cards

on the board.

Every episode is set.

What happens?

So the guy that asked,

"How much plot twist do you

put into your episode?"

Zero. The plot is set.

What you put in your episode

is moments, moments and dialogue

and, like, the sparkle

and just unexpected phrases

and unexpected moments

rather than plot because that's,

you know, the global view.

>> We have time

for one more question here.

>> Hello.

My name is Erica Howard.

I'm from the North Shore

of Long Island.

I'm part of a film

festival there.

I had the pleasure last fall

of seeing you film out in Roslyn

and heard

you're also in Port Washington,

which is great.

And also, congratulations

on the success of the show,

which is fantastic to see.

I have a question

about producing,

being that writing and producing

are completely

different skill sets, of

how you were able

to start those steps

to make the transition

to becoming a good producer.

>> Well, there's a kind of

de facto...

Writers are sort of de facto

producers --

>> In TV.

>> In TV.

>> Yeah.

>> And so when you're covering

set, I mean, you know,

Wes comes to it

with... much more

honestly than I do

because he has served on crews

and stuff like that.

You know, I just sort of waltzed

in, and, you know, like, fake,

I was such a faker

in the beginning

because I didn't...

Like, well, I don't know.

What a gaffer doe--

You know,

he must have gaffer's tape.

I didn't know what his job was.

And then you pick it up

over the course of time,

and that's how one figures out

what producing is.

And producers --

Some producers are --

I think part of the job

of being a producer

is to make decisions

that are going to keep the train

moving and to understand

what the triage in any situation

is and to know whether or not

it's really worth going into

the second-meal penalty.

Those little pieces

are really important

to put together.

But as a TV writer, you kind

of pick it up on the fly.

>> Yeah, I also want to say

the great thing

about being... writing

in TV versus film in features.

You know, the director

is king in features,

and the writer is king in TV.

Like, you know, the head writers

are the show runners

of the show,

and the director comes in

and is a hired gun

who does what

the show runners want,

and that's a big difference

whereas the director

is the tops in film.

And everybody

in a writers' room,

if you've been in one

for more than a couple years,

you get

to be a producer by default.

It's just like the ranks.

It's just what you're called,

you know.

And then, because you have

a responsibility beyond

just writing your episode,

you're like guardian of the tone

of the show

because you're the one

who's there with it

nine months of the year.

And, you know,

certain day players

or directors come on there.

They're there for, you know,

what, two weeks of prep

and two weeks of shooting.

>> Yeah.

>> They're the new guy.

>> Thank you for explaining that

because in film,

when you're a writer,

unless you're invited

onto the set --

>> Right. Oh, yeah.

>> You're, like, locked out.

So thank you

for explaining that.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

One quick last question.

>> I'm Nick Coleman.

I'm an actor, writer, filmmaker.

I actually was on episode

three of "Billions."

>> Oh!

>> You look familiar! Yeah!

>> So my question is actually

a natural progression from hers,

which is, if you're a filmmaker

and you're wanting

to be more of a writer,

these days with digital,

it's so easy to make things.

Do you feel

that there's more value...

If your interest is being

a TV writer,

is it more valuable

to just write more scripts

or to produce the material

that you're writing?

>> That's a really

good question.

I think it's a little bit

of both.

I think once you have something

that's discrete

and you can afford to shoot

and you think

is going to really pop,

and you have the horses,

and by that,

I mean you've got actors

that are going to come in

and give you their weekend

to do something, you know,

that they're not going

to get paid to do, really,

because you can't afford that...

I think it's really good

to have, like, because something

good can happen from that.

>> Thanks.

>> So a little of both.

>> Okay.

>> Well, you gave us a lot of

a lot of things,

so thank you both for being

so generous with your time.

Wes, Willie, thanks again.

[ Applause ]

[ Indistinct conversations ]