Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:01,266 --> 00:00:04,300
[dramatic music]
2
00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:11,333
♪ ♪
3
00:00:21,766 --> 00:00:24,800
[light music]
4
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:31,800
♪ ♪
5
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,100
- When I was a teenager,
that's when I first found
6
00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:38,700
Roberta Gregory
and Mary Wings' comics.
7
00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:44,266
And I remember reading those
and just being transfixed.
8
00:00:44,266 --> 00:00:46,466
- I was very tired
of feeling hidden.
9
00:00:46,466 --> 00:00:49,400
I was very tired
of feeling misunderstood.
10
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,833
I needed to speak
to other people.
11
00:00:51,833 --> 00:00:54,766
- I started creating
these Black characters.
12
00:00:54,766 --> 00:00:59,666
And I was just super into
drawing the Brown Bomber.
13
00:00:59,666 --> 00:01:03,433
The Brown Bomber was not
only African American,
14
00:01:03,433 --> 00:01:06,500
but he was a gay superhero.
15
00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:11,133
- Defining ourselves was
an exciting thing for me.
16
00:01:11,133 --> 00:01:13,633
- Doing "Gay Comix"
essentially was a turning
17
00:01:13,633 --> 00:01:15,600
point for me artistically.
18
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,466
The experience
19
00:01:17,466 --> 00:01:18,933
of being totally honest,
20
00:01:18,933 --> 00:01:23,433
suddenly it is a greater
chance for high-voltage art.
21
00:01:23,433 --> 00:01:27,133
- It's so out there about
something that's so hidden.
22
00:01:27,133 --> 00:01:30,100
I was just torn to doing it.
23
00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:35,833
- I remember so clearly when
I discovered "Gay Comix."
24
00:01:35,833 --> 00:01:39,966
All of a sudden,
here was this permission
25
00:01:39,966 --> 00:01:43,566
and a roadmap for exactly
what I felt like
26
00:01:43,566 --> 00:01:46,333
I wanted to do in my life.
27
00:01:46,333 --> 00:01:49,266
♪ ♪
28
00:01:49,266 --> 00:01:50,300
[cat meows]
29
00:01:52,666 --> 00:01:59,733
♪ ♪
30
00:02:02,566 --> 00:02:05,500
- The idea of creating
comics that aren't really
31
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,433
about making people heroic
is one of the things
32
00:02:08,433 --> 00:02:10,466
that I think queer comics
have done the best.
33
00:02:10,466 --> 00:02:12,500
[school bell rings]
34
00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:14,733
- I grew to hate being
photographed as a teenager,
35
00:02:14,733 --> 00:02:16,800
specifically after puberty.
36
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,900
And it was because
I didn't recognize
37
00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:21,033
myself in a photograph.
38
00:02:21,033 --> 00:02:22,766
But when you're
drawing yourself,
39
00:02:22,766 --> 00:02:24,533
you can draw yourself
however you want.
40
00:02:24,533 --> 00:02:26,200
And that's another
reason why I think
41
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,300
that comics is a medium that's
so friendly to a queer author.
42
00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:34,900
- You know, you're gay,
you're lesbian,
43
00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:37,133
whatever you are,
your identity, all of a sudden,
44
00:02:37,133 --> 00:02:38,733
you don't know how to be that.
45
00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:42,033
There's nothing at all,
no fairy tales even, no movies.
46
00:02:42,033 --> 00:02:45,200
♪ ♪
47
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,433
- As a kid, I was always on
the lookout for something
48
00:02:50,433 --> 00:02:52,966
that resonated with my
perspective of the world,
49
00:02:52,966 --> 00:02:56,333
which was tough,
beautiful, kickass women.
50
00:02:56,333 --> 00:03:00,766
♪ ♪
51
00:03:00,766 --> 00:03:02,833
And so in the comics,
those were the kinds
52
00:03:02,833 --> 00:03:07,433
of female characters
I was drawn to,
53
00:03:07,433 --> 00:03:09,133
especially the villains.
54
00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:12,266
Like in Steve Canyon, the
female villains were gorgeous
55
00:03:12,266 --> 00:03:15,000
and powerful and exotic.
56
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,533
[telephone rings]
57
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,533
And then, of course, there
was Hank in "Brenda Starr,"
58
00:03:22,533 --> 00:03:25,333
who was very
masculine appearing.
59
00:03:25,333 --> 00:03:29,033
So I was finding dykes in
comics from a very early age,
60
00:03:29,033 --> 00:03:30,600
I think.
61
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:37,600
♪ ♪
62
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,900
- When I was in my early 20s
and had ambitions,
63
00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:44,100
I thought I would do
a newspaper strip.
64
00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:47,166
Comic books were considered
slightly lowbrow
65
00:03:47,166 --> 00:03:48,533
compared to newspaper strips,
66
00:03:48,533 --> 00:03:50,366
because everyone
saw newspaper strips.
67
00:03:50,366 --> 00:03:54,100
And there were people
that became famous and rich.
68
00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:57,666
So that seemed like
a worthy ambition.
69
00:03:57,666 --> 00:03:59,866
Eventually,
I learned that newspaper
70
00:03:59,866 --> 00:04:01,400
strips were highly censored.
71
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,400
[dramatic music]
72
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,033
- [cackling]
73
00:04:04,033 --> 00:04:06,000
- In the '50s,
there was a big scandal
74
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,800
over the horror comics
and crime comics,
75
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,200
widely known as EC Comics.
76
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,333
Kids loved them.
77
00:04:13,333 --> 00:04:15,333
Parents hated them.
78
00:04:15,333 --> 00:04:17,733
Government people hated them.
79
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,200
There was a book about how
horrible comics were for kids.
80
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,866
There started to be
censorship in the air.
81
00:04:26,866 --> 00:04:29,366
The Comics Code Authority
was imposed.
82
00:04:29,366 --> 00:04:32,800
And any comic that was
displayed on a newsstand
83
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,533
had to follow a
certain set of rules.
84
00:04:35,533 --> 00:04:39,966
You could never show law
enforcement in a bad light.
85
00:04:39,966 --> 00:04:42,566
There could be no mention
of homosexuality,
86
00:04:42,566 --> 00:04:46,166
all sorts of things that were
designed to reinforce
87
00:04:46,166 --> 00:04:50,733
the most bland vision of what
American life should be like.
88
00:04:50,733 --> 00:04:57,266
♪ ♪
89
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,900
[rock music]
90
00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:04,700
Then when you had
the counterculture revolution,
91
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:06,566
Underground Comix
could never have passed
92
00:05:06,566 --> 00:05:08,200
the Comics Code Authority.
93
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,533
They were sold, in general,
at head shops where they sold
94
00:05:10,533 --> 00:05:13,966
drug paraphernalia
and psychedelic posters
95
00:05:13,966 --> 00:05:15,833
and things that hippies liked.
96
00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:19,166
Anything you could
think of could be
97
00:05:19,166 --> 00:05:21,733
in an underground comic.
98
00:05:21,733 --> 00:05:24,266
[rapid gunfire]
99
00:05:24,266 --> 00:05:29,000
♪ ♪
100
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,033
And they were full of stuff
about drugs
101
00:05:31,033 --> 00:05:32,766
and uncensored sex,
102
00:05:32,766 --> 00:05:35,066
because Underground Comix
were only sold
103
00:05:35,066 --> 00:05:39,800
to adults, theoretically.
104
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,800
[accordion music]
105
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,933
♪ ♪
106
00:05:45,933 --> 00:05:48,800
- We felt very
alone and isolated.
107
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,766
Most of our parents hated us
108
00:05:50,766 --> 00:05:52,333
or would have nothing
to do with us.
109
00:05:52,333 --> 00:05:53,800
And we were all
living in secret.
110
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,800
And we started to read all
111
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,233
the underground things
that were coming out.
112
00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:03,133
[rock music]
113
00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:06,566
I had seen R. Crumb
comic books,
114
00:06:06,566 --> 00:06:09,933
which were really,
really disturbing
115
00:06:09,933 --> 00:06:12,300
and an example
of why feminists
116
00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:15,600
would want to make their own.
117
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,600
[accordion music]
118
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,066
♪ ♪
119
00:06:21,066 --> 00:06:23,733
So, there was a Portland
women's bookstore.
120
00:06:23,733 --> 00:06:29,333
And I happened upon Trina
Robbins' the
121
00:06:23,733 --> 00:06:29,333
Wimmen's Comix.
122
00:06:29,333 --> 00:06:33,466
And I was so happy to see
123
00:06:33,466 --> 00:06:37,633
there in
Wimmen's Comix
was,
"Sandy Comes Out."
124
00:06:37,633 --> 00:06:42,833
♪ ♪
125
00:06:42,833 --> 00:06:45,833
And then I was disappointed.
126
00:06:45,833 --> 00:06:47,000
♪ ♪
127
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,533
It looked
very superficial to me.
128
00:06:49,533 --> 00:06:51,633
It's sort of as if
one day she wakes up.
129
00:06:51,633 --> 00:06:53,166
She takes a karate class.
130
00:06:53,166 --> 00:06:54,400
She sleeps with a woman.
131
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,866
Men can't come into her house.
132
00:06:55,866 --> 00:06:58,133
She's going to wear
overalls forever
133
00:06:58,133 --> 00:06:59,566
and never shave her armpits.
134
00:06:59,566 --> 00:07:00,633
Goodbye. The end.
135
00:07:00,633 --> 00:07:03,000
♪ ♪
136
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,966
And I thought, well,
this has nothing to do with
137
00:07:06,966 --> 00:07:08,366
what it really feels like.
138
00:07:08,366 --> 00:07:12,466
♪ ♪
139
00:07:12,466 --> 00:07:14,433
And I didn't know
what I was doing.
140
00:07:14,433 --> 00:07:17,633
I grabbed a Rapidograph pen,
and I sat on a sofa
141
00:07:17,633 --> 00:07:19,033
with bad lighting.
142
00:07:19,033 --> 00:07:21,600
And I just sort of went at it.
143
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:28,633
♪ ♪
144
00:07:31,433 --> 00:07:35,033
"Come Out Comix" is a very
simple story about a woman
145
00:07:35,033 --> 00:07:39,266
who gets attracted to another
woman, and oh, dear,
146
00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:40,466
what are they going
to do about it?
147
00:07:40,466 --> 00:07:42,866
And do they really
feel that way?
148
00:07:42,866 --> 00:07:49,900
♪ ♪
149
00:07:54,366 --> 00:07:59,266
I really wanted to do something
that showed all the emotion,
150
00:07:59,266 --> 00:08:00,766
all the sort of worry
and trauma
151
00:08:00,766 --> 00:08:02,566
that you have
about coming out,
152
00:08:02,566 --> 00:08:08,700
and all those things
about really being a queer.
153
00:08:11,766 --> 00:08:14,533
I did have two friends
who had an offset press.
154
00:08:14,533 --> 00:08:17,766
And they were two women
who ran a karate studio.
155
00:08:17,766 --> 00:08:20,700
So, we kind of printed
it in the off hours.
156
00:08:23,933 --> 00:08:26,900
I created "Come Out Comix"
with absolutely
157
00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:29,700
no idea of distribution.
158
00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:32,733
♪ ♪
159
00:08:32,733 --> 00:08:35,833
I'm not even sure the word
"marketing" had been invented.
160
00:08:35,833 --> 00:08:38,400
I mean, it was sort of the
boondocks, the nowhere.
161
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,766
It was-- the field was open.
162
00:08:39,766 --> 00:08:41,300
It didn't exist.
163
00:08:41,300 --> 00:08:43,733
And when I think more and
more about why I did it,
164
00:08:43,733 --> 00:08:45,033
it was just a gift.
165
00:08:45,033 --> 00:08:49,100
♪ ♪
166
00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:51,166
I wanted women
to have something
167
00:08:51,166 --> 00:08:55,500
that mirrored their
experience, that felt good.
168
00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:57,600
Because most of us just
settle down into lives
169
00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,566
that are pretty repetitive.
170
00:08:59,566 --> 00:09:04,933
And I wanted my lesbian sisters
to go on an insane adventure
171
00:09:04,933 --> 00:09:06,433
while they're sitting
in their armchairs
172
00:09:06,433 --> 00:09:08,200
and they have to go
to work the next day.
173
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,533
♪ ♪
174
00:09:09,533 --> 00:09:12,066
[dog barking]
175
00:09:12,066 --> 00:09:14,566
"Come Out Comix" came
out of a period
176
00:09:14,566 --> 00:09:17,266
of great transformation.
177
00:09:17,266 --> 00:09:19,700
Women were transforming
themselves,
178
00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:21,900
breaking barriers
right and left.
179
00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:24,566
It was a very,
very exciting time.
180
00:09:24,566 --> 00:09:28,166
[dog barking]
181
00:09:28,166 --> 00:09:30,900
I had no idea that
I was going to be
182
00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:32,400
part of such a big adventure.
183
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:39,433
♪ ♪
184
00:09:43,333 --> 00:09:45,600
- I was in the room
with Mary Wings,
185
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,000
Trina Robbins, and Lee Mars.
186
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,566
And I definitely
had a panic attack.
187
00:09:50,566 --> 00:09:53,233
I remember us all sitting
on the couch together
188
00:09:53,233 --> 00:09:56,833
and them telling us how they
first got started in comics
189
00:09:56,833 --> 00:09:58,733
and how drastically
different it was.
190
00:09:58,733 --> 00:10:01,133
And it was just
so overwhelming,
191
00:10:01,133 --> 00:10:02,666
because I was just
so grateful
192
00:10:02,666 --> 00:10:04,233
that these people
had come before
193
00:10:04,233 --> 00:10:06,900
and had helped me get to
the point where I am today,
194
00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:10,300
where I can make comics
about being a queer person
195
00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:15,033
and have people acknowledge
them and take them seriously.
196
00:10:15,033 --> 00:10:16,633
And without them,
I don't think I would
197
00:10:16,633 --> 00:10:18,200
have been able to do that.
198
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,600
- I was born in San Francisco.
199
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,733
And just knowing,
like, years later
200
00:10:24,733 --> 00:10:27,566
that there was
an Underground Comix movement,
201
00:10:27,566 --> 00:10:29,900
but there was also
like this critique
202
00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:32,133
initiated by women
and queer folks,
203
00:10:32,133 --> 00:10:34,700
like,
to create their own space.
204
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:38,133
To know that these
are like the footsteps
205
00:10:38,133 --> 00:10:43,200
that we're walking in
for this generation,
206
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,300
that's something
I don't want to ever forget.
207
00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:50,533
♪ ♪
208
00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,366
- When I was a kid, I got into
so many different comic books.
209
00:11:00,366 --> 00:11:02,066
I got into
the "Fantastic Four."
210
00:11:02,066 --> 00:11:03,466
I really, really loved them.
211
00:11:03,466 --> 00:11:05,766
They were
my favorite comic strip.
212
00:11:05,766 --> 00:11:06,900
So I drew Batman.
213
00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:09,700
I drew Spider-Man, Superman.
214
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:12,033
And I drew them well
enough that I gained
215
00:11:12,033 --> 00:11:14,133
notoriety in the neighborhood.
216
00:11:14,133 --> 00:11:15,966
"Oh, Rupert can draw the Hulk.
217
00:11:15,966 --> 00:11:17,166
Have Rupert draw the Hulk."
218
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:20,166
[upbeat funky music]
219
00:11:20,166 --> 00:11:23,900
♪ ♪
220
00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:25,733
I grew up in Chicago.
221
00:11:25,733 --> 00:11:30,566
And my hero in popular
culture was Muhammad Ali.
222
00:11:30,566 --> 00:11:33,800
- Cassius Clay of Chicago
challenges Garry Jawish.
223
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,000
- Muhammad Ali didn't merely
say he was the greatest.
224
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000
He said, "I am so pretty."
225
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,133
- He's too ugly
to be the world's champ.
226
00:11:43,133 --> 00:11:46,033
The world's champ should
be pretty like me.
227
00:11:46,033 --> 00:11:50,866
- The degree to which white
people hated his brashness
228
00:11:50,866 --> 00:11:53,700
increased my love for him.
229
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:57,933
One of the things
that struck me
230
00:11:57,933 --> 00:12:00,966
was his confidence
during a period of time
231
00:12:00,966 --> 00:12:03,600
where Black men
were almost like not
232
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,900
wanting to be seen, be
literally the Invisible Man.
233
00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:12,466
Once I started becoming
really enamored
234
00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:15,033
of Muhammad Ali
and his message,
235
00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:16,966
it was like a wake-up call.
236
00:12:16,966 --> 00:12:19,266
I looked at these
characters I was drawing.
237
00:12:19,266 --> 00:12:21,566
And I thought,
my God, why the hell
238
00:12:21,566 --> 00:12:24,833
am I drawing
white superheroes?
239
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,800
And there was
a certain degree of anger.
240
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,933
The word that keeps coming
to mind, oddly enough,
241
00:12:33,933 --> 00:12:37,233
is "bamboozled."
242
00:12:37,233 --> 00:12:41,733
I felt that I had accepted
243
00:12:41,733 --> 00:12:46,066
that the world of comics
were white.
244
00:12:46,066 --> 00:12:49,600
And that led me
to create Superbad.
245
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,266
He had this giant
'fro that was designed
246
00:12:53,266 --> 00:12:56,166
to strike fear in the hearts
of every white person.
247
00:12:56,166 --> 00:13:00,666
His costume was the Black
Liberation flag colors.
248
00:13:00,666 --> 00:13:03,200
It was the very beginning
of my comics
249
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,100
for me being cathartic.
250
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:08,100
[light music]
251
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:15,000
♪ ♪
252
00:13:15,933 --> 00:13:19,566
I decided I wanted to create
a more whimsical superhero
253
00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:21,233
that was more original.
254
00:13:21,233 --> 00:13:23,900
And I actually started
discovering the history
255
00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:27,233
of another boxer, Joe Louis.
256
00:13:27,233 --> 00:13:32,033
Joe Louis always struck me
as more meek, more humble.
257
00:13:32,033 --> 00:13:35,366
His nickname
was the Brown Bomber.
258
00:13:35,366 --> 00:13:37,466
And I started drawing
these little sketches
259
00:13:37,466 --> 00:13:39,000
of this character.
260
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,566
He had these socks
that went up to right
261
00:13:41,566 --> 00:13:44,633
below his knees and a cape.
262
00:13:44,633 --> 00:13:49,333
I just became more and
more humored by the whimsy.
263
00:13:49,333 --> 00:13:52,333
[upbeat music]
264
00:13:52,333 --> 00:13:59,366
♪ ♪
265
00:14:00,966 --> 00:14:03,833
I was at Cornell College
in Iowa.
266
00:14:03,833 --> 00:14:06,866
And I was approached
by the editor
267
00:14:06,866 --> 00:14:09,366
of the school newspaper
saying that they wanted
268
00:14:09,366 --> 00:14:11,933
an editorial cartoonist.
269
00:14:11,933 --> 00:14:14,966
So it was an incredibly
pivotal part
270
00:14:14,966 --> 00:14:16,733
of my whole career.
271
00:14:16,733 --> 00:14:19,666
♪ ♪
272
00:14:19,666 --> 00:14:21,800
All of a sudden,
the Brown Bomber
273
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:27,133
became melded with this idea
of editorial content.
274
00:14:27,133 --> 00:14:29,833
And it was campus life.
275
00:14:29,833 --> 00:14:32,166
So I did comics
about the way men
276
00:14:32,166 --> 00:14:34,133
were treating women,
277
00:14:34,133 --> 00:14:38,166
kids who were pampered
by their parents.
278
00:14:38,166 --> 00:14:40,633
The Brown Bomber
really had morphed
279
00:14:40,633 --> 00:14:43,933
into being a school mascot.
280
00:14:43,933 --> 00:14:47,700
But he wasn't identified
as a gay character, per se.
281
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:50,666
It happened my senior year,
where I came up
282
00:14:50,666 --> 00:14:54,833
with the idea of these
totally black panels,
283
00:14:54,833 --> 00:14:57,000
where the Brown Bomber
is contemplating
284
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,600
being in the dark
285
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,400
and wanting to reveal
who he truly was.
286
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,000
But he wasn't sure
if he would be accepted.
287
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,200
[knock on door]
288
00:15:08,533 --> 00:15:13,000
I actually had people come
to my dorm room and say,
289
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,833
"Wow,
I had no idea all along
290
00:15:14,833 --> 00:15:16,100
"you meant
for the Brown Bomber
291
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,966
to be gay, that he's gay."
292
00:15:18,966 --> 00:15:21,100
And then there would be
this light, they'd go,
293
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:23,266
"Are you gay?"
294
00:15:23,266 --> 00:15:24,900
And I'd have to say,
"Well, yeah,
295
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,266
I've been gay all along."
296
00:15:32,233 --> 00:15:35,033
- Come on, Molly.
297
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,233
[gentle music]
298
00:15:42,233 --> 00:15:46,766
♪ ♪
299
00:15:46,766 --> 00:15:49,200
From the time I was eight
or so
300
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,700
and my father told me that
some people earned a living
301
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:55,266
doing this drawing
that I was doing.
302
00:15:55,266 --> 00:15:59,300
That got my interest
because the adults
303
00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:01,433
that surrounded me
in the little farm town,
304
00:16:01,433 --> 00:16:04,266
Springville, Alabama,
none of their jobs
305
00:16:04,266 --> 00:16:05,866
looked terribly interesting.
306
00:16:05,866 --> 00:16:08,066
And particularly the farmers.
307
00:16:08,066 --> 00:16:11,266
Looked like that was an
incredibly heavy labor job.
308
00:16:11,266 --> 00:16:14,266
And that didn't appeal to me.
309
00:16:14,266 --> 00:16:16,766
So I began wanting
to be a cartoonist.
310
00:16:16,766 --> 00:16:20,600
♪ ♪
311
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,033
The first time I was aware
that any cartoonists anywhere
312
00:16:24,033 --> 00:16:27,666
were doing cartoons
about gay people
313
00:16:27,666 --> 00:16:32,466
was in the "Advocate,"
the pre-Stonewall "Advocate."
314
00:16:32,466 --> 00:16:34,100
It was called "Miss Thing."
315
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:36,700
And it was very campy.
316
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,233
Basically, he was someone
that a straight person
317
00:16:44,233 --> 00:16:45,600
would never know about.
318
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,066
Like Tom of Finland,
who is now well known.
319
00:16:48,066 --> 00:16:50,033
And they have gallery
shows in New York.
320
00:16:50,033 --> 00:16:51,866
But for my generation,
it was just porn.
321
00:16:51,866 --> 00:16:53,766
It was just particularly
excellent porn.
322
00:16:53,766 --> 00:16:56,900
♪ ♪
323
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:59,300
It was a big step
when I moved to New York.
324
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:02,966
I wasn't just interested
in doing comics about gayness
325
00:17:02,966 --> 00:17:04,433
or even just in doing comics.
326
00:17:04,433 --> 00:17:06,533
I wanted to do
magazine illustrations
327
00:17:06,533 --> 00:17:09,066
and other things.
328
00:17:09,066 --> 00:17:11,433
I didn't want
to be pigeonholed.
329
00:17:13,966 --> 00:17:15,966
[engine revving]
330
00:17:15,966 --> 00:17:18,300
[rock music]
331
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:22,733
In 1969, by happenstance,
I and some friends of mine
332
00:17:22,733 --> 00:17:26,533
happened to be witnesses
to the Stonewall riots.
333
00:17:26,533 --> 00:17:33,566
♪ ♪
334
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,133
[crowd booing]
335
00:17:41,133 --> 00:17:44,233
[crowd cheering]
336
00:17:50,133 --> 00:17:52,200
[horns honking]
337
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,500
[door slamming]
338
00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:00,533
[glass shattering]
339
00:18:00,533 --> 00:18:07,533
♪ ♪
340
00:18:07,533 --> 00:18:10,766
Within the days immediately
following the Stonewall riots,
341
00:18:10,766 --> 00:18:15,366
it became clear
that a fuse had been lit.
342
00:18:15,366 --> 00:18:18,333
♪ ♪
343
00:18:18,333 --> 00:18:21,566
[cheers and applause]
344
00:18:21,566 --> 00:18:23,433
♪ ♪
345
00:18:23,433 --> 00:18:26,466
I became aware that
there was a civil rights
346
00:18:26,466 --> 00:18:28,833
battle to be fought.
347
00:18:28,833 --> 00:18:32,700
Then I felt like, you know,
something has to be done
348
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,900
so that every
generation does not go
349
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:36,000
through what I went through.
350
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,666
♪ ♪
351
00:18:38,666 --> 00:18:41,800
And one of the ways that
I felt I could contribute
352
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,200
was to represent a world
that had gay people in it.
353
00:18:56,666 --> 00:18:59,733
- I have only just began
to grasp
354
00:18:59,733 --> 00:19:03,166
the wealth of queer comics
history, so to speak.
355
00:19:03,166 --> 00:19:04,533
It's something that I feel.
356
00:19:04,533 --> 00:19:06,166
You should always
know your roots.
357
00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:08,733
But these are very
new roots for me.
358
00:19:08,733 --> 00:19:10,566
- I remember Mary Wings
said she thought
359
00:19:10,566 --> 00:19:13,266
she was the only lesbian.
360
00:19:13,266 --> 00:19:15,900
To put yourself out there in
a situation where you're going,
361
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:20,966
"Am I a total anomaly?" and to
still put yourself out there,
362
00:19:20,966 --> 00:19:23,233
I mean, that's just amazing.
363
00:19:23,233 --> 00:19:26,766
- If it hadn't been for people
who came out before me
364
00:19:26,766 --> 00:19:29,133
in a time when it was much
more dangerous to do so
365
00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:31,900
and been willing to make work,
then my work
366
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:34,400
wouldn't be received
the way that it is now.
367
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,400
- I read
"Dykes to Watch Out For"
368
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,266
cover to cover
at the Lucy Parsons Library
369
00:19:39,266 --> 00:19:40,900
in Boston, Massachusetts.
370
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:44,000
And that experience
of finding that book
371
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,966
and sitting in this
library by myself
372
00:19:46,966 --> 00:19:49,800
and just really delving deep
into these characters
373
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,900
that this person
had spent 25 years creating,
374
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:55,300
that had a huge impact on me.
375
00:20:12,066 --> 00:20:15,466
- I'm filling in the blacks
on a very old comic strip.
376
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,000
It's very easy
to fill in the blacks.
377
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,500
It's just a mouse click
in Photoshop.
378
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:23,633
But for them to really
look nice on their own,
379
00:20:23,633 --> 00:20:25,200
they should be inked in.
380
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,633
So I'm doing that
after the fact.
381
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,633
I remember so clearly
when I discovered gay comics.
382
00:20:37,633 --> 00:20:40,900
The thought that I could
draw about my own queer life
383
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,666
was really
revolutionary for me.
384
00:20:45,266 --> 00:20:48,566
Let me think.
385
00:20:48,566 --> 00:20:52,166
It was soon after seeing that
first issue of gay comics,
386
00:20:52,166 --> 00:20:54,400
and being exposed
to this wonderful world
387
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,100
of these stories,
that I forced myself
388
00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:59,933
to start drawing lesbians.
389
00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:01,966
Because although
I had drawn all my life,
390
00:21:01,966 --> 00:21:07,300
I almost exclusively drew men,
391
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:09,533
which started to seem
really odd to me
392
00:21:09,533 --> 00:21:12,500
once I came out
and realized that I was, like,
393
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:13,500
really interested in women.
394
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,000
Why was I just drawing men?
395
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,866
Donny, you're so funny today.
396
00:21:18,866 --> 00:21:21,500
I just use Rapidograph ink.
397
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,966
But I put it in a bottle
so I can get at it.
398
00:21:24,966 --> 00:21:29,433
And I use a dip pen,
a Hunt number 100.
399
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:34,500
But you can see
it can be a very fine line
400
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:35,866
or a very thick line.
401
00:21:35,866 --> 00:21:39,700
It's very sharp and precise,
but it's also--
402
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:41,666
it's got this emotionality
to it, you know,
403
00:21:41,666 --> 00:21:45,866
in a way you can get
so many different widths.
404
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,533
"Dykes to Watch Out For"
evolved really slowly,
405
00:21:51,533 --> 00:21:53,266
first from these
just silly drawings
406
00:21:53,266 --> 00:21:57,033
I was doing for my friends,
407
00:21:57,033 --> 00:21:59,700
just one image with a caption.
408
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:01,900
That was kind of
like "The New Yorker"
409
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:03,766
influence of my childhood.
410
00:22:03,766 --> 00:22:06,133
I would always read the
comics in "The New Yorker."
411
00:22:06,133 --> 00:22:07,300
- [gasps]
412
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:09,100
[dish clattering]
413
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,100
[upbeat jazzy music]
414
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:13,866
♪ ♪
415
00:22:13,866 --> 00:22:16,333
They were all
just single-panel comics
416
00:22:16,333 --> 00:22:19,400
in the early days.
417
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,066
It was something
that I published
418
00:22:21,066 --> 00:22:22,466
in the feminist newspaper
419
00:22:22,466 --> 00:22:25,200
where I worked
in New York City.
420
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,333
♪ ♪
421
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,433
So this is kind of like my--
422
00:22:35,433 --> 00:22:38,600
my final sketch
that I'm going to draw from.
423
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,133
So I put my good paper down
on top of it on a light box.
424
00:22:43,133 --> 00:22:45,200
So this shines through.
425
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,666
And then I draw--
426
00:22:46,666 --> 00:22:50,466
I redraw it all in pencil.
427
00:22:50,466 --> 00:22:51,800
And then ink over it.
428
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,700
So the pencil is this
beautiful evanescent stage
429
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:55,766
that no longer exists,
because I have erased it,
430
00:22:55,766 --> 00:22:57,333
and I've drawn over it.
431
00:22:57,333 --> 00:23:01,066
But it's my favorite
part of the process,
432
00:23:01,066 --> 00:23:03,066
is when the pencil
is all finished
433
00:23:03,066 --> 00:23:04,466
and I haven't inked it yet.
434
00:23:04,466 --> 00:23:05,866
- Why is that your favorite?
435
00:23:05,866 --> 00:23:09,300
- Because it still has the
possibility of perfection.
436
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,066
I haven't
[bleep] anything up yet.
437
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,633
[delicate piano music]
438
00:23:17,633 --> 00:23:24,666
♪ ♪
439
00:23:30,233 --> 00:23:31,733
I didn't earn a living
for a long time.
440
00:23:31,733 --> 00:23:34,733
It took me until
I was 30 to really
441
00:23:34,733 --> 00:23:38,266
have enough gigs that
I could take that risk
442
00:23:38,266 --> 00:23:39,733
of quitting my day job.
443
00:23:39,733 --> 00:23:42,166
My day job, at that point,
was cutting and pasting.
444
00:23:42,166 --> 00:23:44,000
It was before computers.
445
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,266
Really, like,
wax and rubber cement,
446
00:23:47,266 --> 00:23:49,533
which was great training
for being a cartoonist.
447
00:23:49,533 --> 00:23:50,633
I loved it.
448
00:23:50,633 --> 00:23:52,000
I love that challenge
of having to fit
449
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,733
a certain amount of text
and a certain number of images
450
00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:56,500
into a given space.
451
00:23:56,500 --> 00:24:03,600
♪ ♪
452
00:24:12,333 --> 00:24:15,066
- If I can find
what I'm looking for--
453
00:24:15,066 --> 00:24:16,800
that's not the drawer.
454
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,733
That's not the drawer.
That's not the drawer.
455
00:24:19,733 --> 00:24:21,466
That's what I'm looking for.
456
00:24:21,466 --> 00:24:23,300
These are drawings
that were either
457
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,466
drawn while I was
tripping on acid
458
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:30,933
or that were inspired
by the acid experience.
459
00:24:30,933 --> 00:24:34,800
[light piano music]
460
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,100
I was down in Alabama
in Birmingham.
461
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:40,833
And I discovered
Kitchen Sink Comics
462
00:24:40,833 --> 00:24:43,300
published by Denis Kitchen.
463
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:46,566
So I sent him some
of my stuff
464
00:24:46,566 --> 00:24:49,633
I'd been doing for underground
newspapers locally.
465
00:24:49,633 --> 00:24:52,400
And Denis liked those
and asked me to send more.
466
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,500
And so he began to
regularly publish my stuff.
467
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:58,600
♪ ♪
468
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,466
In 1979, Denis, with whom
I had this long relationship
469
00:25:02,466 --> 00:25:04,433
by then, he had published
most of my underground comics,
470
00:25:04,433 --> 00:25:07,300
he said he was thinking about
starting a new series called
471
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:08,866
"Gay Comix."
472
00:25:08,866 --> 00:25:11,000
So he said, would I be
interested in editing it?
473
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,433
I realized it was
really an ideal way
474
00:25:13,433 --> 00:25:15,400
to come out professionally.
475
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,866
♪ ♪
476
00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:20,866
Denis.
477
00:25:20,866 --> 00:25:23,833
- Howard, hey.
478
00:25:23,833 --> 00:25:25,300
- You remember Molly.
479
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:27,033
- Of course.
480
00:25:27,033 --> 00:25:29,633
Hey, Molly.
481
00:25:29,633 --> 00:25:30,833
- Let's sit in here.
- Yeah?
482
00:25:30,833 --> 00:25:31,833
- We can have some tea.
483
00:25:31,833 --> 00:25:33,033
- All right.
484
00:25:37,366 --> 00:25:39,933
Nice cup.
485
00:25:39,933 --> 00:25:43,766
- You know, we were talking
about "Gay Comix" a while back.
486
00:25:43,766 --> 00:25:45,366
- Yeah.
- And I remember
487
00:25:45,366 --> 00:25:46,566
getting a letter
from you about it.
488
00:25:46,566 --> 00:25:48,000
But I don't know
if you ever told me
489
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,700
sort of what led you
to think of it.
490
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,866
- I think-- was it a
story you did in "Snarf,"
491
00:25:54,866 --> 00:25:58,500
maybe, one of the comics,
where Headrack came up.
492
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:00,233
- Yeah, that was
"Barefootz" No. 2.
493
00:26:00,233 --> 00:26:01,733
- Okay.
494
00:26:01,733 --> 00:26:04,733
[funky music]
495
00:26:04,733 --> 00:26:07,266
♪ ♪
496
00:26:07,266 --> 00:26:11,366
- It just seemed to me
the time was right.
497
00:26:11,366 --> 00:26:12,866
I mean, I was doing--
you've got to remember,
498
00:26:12,866 --> 00:26:14,233
I'm doing
other anthologies.
499
00:26:14,233 --> 00:26:17,066
"Dope Comics," well,
I was a card-carrying
500
00:26:17,066 --> 00:26:18,400
marijuana smoker.
501
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,300
That was easier for me.
502
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:22,533
I was doing
"Bizarre Sex" comics.
503
00:26:22,533 --> 00:26:24,733
- I was doing--
- Yeah, "Bizarre Sex Lives."
504
00:26:24,733 --> 00:26:27,166
- "Wimmen's Comix"
with Trina and others.
505
00:26:27,166 --> 00:26:31,333
And it just seemed like,
for me, what Underground Comix
506
00:26:31,333 --> 00:26:34,500
were partly about
is for a forum
507
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,800
for groups and individuals
to speak their mind.
508
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,466
And it was kind of an offshoot
of the Free Speech Movement.
509
00:26:42,466 --> 00:26:43,733
And it's, like, it's time.
510
00:26:43,733 --> 00:26:46,033
Comics were so
suppressed for so long,
511
00:26:46,033 --> 00:26:49,100
my feeling was,
let all the voices out.
512
00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:51,833
And once I figured out--
513
00:26:51,833 --> 00:26:53,933
it took me a while--
that you were gay.
514
00:26:53,933 --> 00:26:55,500
And I just thought,
well, jeez,
515
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,533
you'd be the perfect guy
to edit it.
516
00:26:57,533 --> 00:27:00,433
♪ ♪
517
00:27:00,433 --> 00:27:02,633
- That was scary.
518
00:27:02,633 --> 00:27:05,633
You can't take it back.
The cat's out of the bag.
519
00:27:05,633 --> 00:27:06,966
[bell dings]
520
00:27:06,966 --> 00:27:08,900
So I wrote to everybody
who was in the world
521
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:11,300
of Underground Comix.
522
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,900
I said, "I know that many
of you may feel
523
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,333
"that it's threatening
to your career for you
524
00:27:17,333 --> 00:27:19,566
to be open about being gay."
525
00:27:19,566 --> 00:27:21,933
As a gay person,
I felt those feelings too.
526
00:27:21,933 --> 00:27:24,866
But I feel like, you know,
given the onslaught
527
00:27:24,866 --> 00:27:29,100
of anti-gay activity
that it was really
528
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:32,466
important that people be out.
529
00:27:32,466 --> 00:27:35,066
And it's not just
for political reasons.
530
00:27:35,066 --> 00:27:37,933
People should be able
to do art about their lives.
531
00:27:37,933 --> 00:27:42,533
[typewriter tapping]
532
00:27:42,533 --> 00:27:44,700
We sent this letter
to every cartoonist
533
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:46,933
in Denis Kitchen's Rolodex.
534
00:27:46,933 --> 00:27:51,500
- I know there were more than
a handful of rather macho guys
535
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:53,600
who were quite
indignant that they'd
536
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,866
gotten this form letter.
537
00:27:55,866 --> 00:27:58,166
But I mean,
like I said, who knows?
538
00:27:58,166 --> 00:28:00,400
And there were
a number of surprises
539
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,933
that we never
could have guessed,
540
00:28:02,933 --> 00:28:04,533
including some
people who were bi and...
541
00:28:04,533 --> 00:28:05,666
- Mm-hmm.
542
00:28:05,666 --> 00:28:08,666
[funky music]
543
00:28:08,666 --> 00:28:12,366
♪ ♪
544
00:28:12,366 --> 00:28:14,966
- I wanted to establish
this is co-gender.
545
00:28:14,966 --> 00:28:17,833
This is not a boys' club.
546
00:28:17,833 --> 00:28:21,100
I said, I want this to be
an honest comic book
547
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:23,333
about the human experience
of being gay.
548
00:28:23,333 --> 00:28:26,000
I mean, even if you want
to do a funny animal story,
549
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,166
it needs to grow out
of the real-life experiences
550
00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:32,100
of gay people in spirit.
551
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:33,733
I mean, it could be fanciful.
552
00:28:33,733 --> 00:28:35,733
It could-- you could take
all sorts of liberties
553
00:28:35,733 --> 00:28:37,066
with reality.
554
00:28:37,066 --> 00:28:38,866
But what I didn't
want was something
555
00:28:38,866 --> 00:28:43,133
that was all about
camp or that was
556
00:28:43,133 --> 00:28:45,833
specifically just about sex.
557
00:28:45,833 --> 00:28:48,533
I said in my little opening
statement, I wanted this to be
558
00:28:48,533 --> 00:28:50,566
about people, not penises.
559
00:28:50,566 --> 00:28:54,133
And some of the artists took
me so literally that the issue
560
00:28:54,133 --> 00:28:59,366
was in danger of being
so sex-free that I made--
561
00:28:59,366 --> 00:29:00,800
my contribution
to the first issue
562
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,600
was the very sexually
explicit story.
563
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,100
It was called--
"Billy Goes Out,"
564
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:07,600
was the name of the story.
565
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,200
It was about going out
for a night of hopefully sex
566
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,466
in Greenwich Village
in the late '70s
567
00:29:13,466 --> 00:29:16,266
before the AIDS epidemic.
568
00:29:16,266 --> 00:29:19,633
Externally, the guy
was out looking for sex.
569
00:29:19,633 --> 00:29:21,200
He was cruising.
570
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,000
It was about the inner
life of the character.
571
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,400
Every panel had his
thought processes
572
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,800
above his actual actions.
573
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,900
And he had this thing called
the rejection checklist.
574
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:37,900
[quirky music]
575
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:44,233
♪ ♪
576
00:29:44,233 --> 00:29:46,566
But also talked about--
had things about his family
577
00:29:46,566 --> 00:29:48,566
relationships,
all the things that
578
00:29:48,566 --> 00:29:50,233
might go through your head.
579
00:29:50,233 --> 00:29:55,100
And the point was, people who
entered that sexual world that
580
00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:58,300
was so freewheeling
during the '70s,
581
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,400
they were full-fledged
human beings who had lives.
582
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,400
[upbeat funky music]
583
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:11,433
♪ ♪
584
00:30:19,966 --> 00:30:25,700
- I remember in 1979
585
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:29,400
I had a friend
who was always sick.
586
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,300
And nobody could
figure out what it was.
587
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:34,000
And he would go to the doctor.
588
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,200
And they would give him
some sort of diagnosis
589
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,033
and give him some
kind of medication.
590
00:30:40,033 --> 00:30:42,366
And he never got better.
591
00:30:42,366 --> 00:30:44,566
And then we started
hearing about GRID,
592
00:30:44,566 --> 00:30:47,766
the Gay Related Immune
Deficiency, and then AIDS.
593
00:30:47,766 --> 00:30:52,333
- 800 cases nationwide,
300-plus of those fatal.
594
00:30:52,333 --> 00:30:55,366
And every day, three more
cases are identified.
595
00:30:55,366 --> 00:30:58,433
And yet still,
surprisingly few people
596
00:30:58,433 --> 00:31:02,500
are familiar with the Acquired
Immune Deficiency Syndrome.
597
00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:05,500
[somber music]
598
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:09,466
♪ ♪
599
00:31:09,466 --> 00:31:11,533
- And we lived
through this period
600
00:31:11,533 --> 00:31:14,000
where it was this mystery.
601
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,500
And then it was
this death sentence.
602
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:24,533
♪ ♪
603
00:31:41,633 --> 00:31:44,666
AIDS was a huge
part of our lives.
604
00:31:44,666 --> 00:31:48,133
And our friends were
getting sick and dying.
605
00:31:48,133 --> 00:31:51,333
And we were helpless
to stop it.
606
00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:54,633
♪ ♪
607
00:31:54,633 --> 00:31:58,166
And our whole community--
608
00:31:58,166 --> 00:32:00,766
I don't know if I can
talk about this.
609
00:32:00,766 --> 00:32:07,800
♪ ♪
610
00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:20,833
I can't talk about it.
611
00:32:20,833 --> 00:32:27,866
♪ ♪
612
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:36,600
[crying]
613
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,466
all: Fight AIDS!
Act up! Fight back!
614
00:32:40,466 --> 00:32:43,333
Fight AIDS!
Act up! Fight back!
615
00:32:43,333 --> 00:32:46,500
Fight AIDS!
Act up! Fight back!
616
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,466
Fight AIDS! Act up!
Fight back!
617
00:32:49,466 --> 00:32:52,200
Fight AIDS!
Act up! Fight back!
618
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,533
Fight AIDS!
619
00:32:53,533 --> 00:32:54,966
- It was a frightening time.
620
00:32:54,966 --> 00:32:56,733
It was a heartbreaking time.
621
00:32:56,733 --> 00:33:00,433
I watched people behave
in terrible ways.
622
00:33:00,433 --> 00:33:03,000
And we wrote
about it in comics.
623
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,166
It was hard to write
about sometimes.
624
00:33:06,166 --> 00:33:07,900
It was difficult.
625
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:14,933
♪ ♪
626
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,100
Some people told
personal stories
627
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:33,333
about characters
with HIV and AIDS,
628
00:33:33,333 --> 00:33:36,100
like Howard did in "Wendel."
629
00:33:37,233 --> 00:33:40,600
"7 Miles a Second"
by David Wojnarowicz
630
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,666
was really about the rage
and the horror
631
00:33:43,666 --> 00:33:47,033
that was involved
in this epidemic.
632
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:52,666
[water splashing]
633
00:33:52,666 --> 00:33:56,733
Some people did satirical
comics about the reaction
634
00:33:56,733 --> 00:33:58,466
to HIV and AIDS.
635
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,366
[water splashing]
636
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,333
- That's the kind
of humor you would get
637
00:34:09,333 --> 00:34:11,400
from people with AIDS.
638
00:34:13,666 --> 00:34:17,566
Humor is one of the ways
that people deal with tragedy.
639
00:34:19,066 --> 00:34:20,800
Death was in the air.
640
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,166
They weren't
pretending it wasn't.
641
00:34:24,633 --> 00:34:27,433
- Jerry Lopresti.
642
00:34:27,433 --> 00:34:30,933
LHM.
643
00:34:30,933 --> 00:34:32,366
Michael--
644
00:34:32,366 --> 00:34:34,133
- Basically, you know,
America at large was
645
00:34:34,133 --> 00:34:36,566
not interested in reacting.
646
00:34:36,566 --> 00:34:38,266
Gay people stepped
up to the plate.
647
00:34:38,266 --> 00:34:40,066
- Michael McDowell.
648
00:34:40,066 --> 00:34:42,933
- Joe Avella.
- William Maysle.
649
00:34:42,933 --> 00:34:43,966
- Michael Babcock.
650
00:34:43,966 --> 00:34:46,133
- Peter Neihaus.
651
00:34:46,133 --> 00:34:47,900
- There's no other
group of people
652
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:50,200
I would rather go
through a deadly epidemic with
653
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,133
than the gay community.
654
00:34:53,633 --> 00:34:55,033
- Howard Dill.
655
00:34:56,733 --> 00:34:59,133
- Our response
to the AIDS epidemic,
656
00:34:59,133 --> 00:35:03,600
as horrible as it was,
made you proud to be gay.
657
00:35:05,066 --> 00:35:07,833
- Alex Kovnor.
658
00:35:12,566 --> 00:35:15,800
[seagulls squawking]
659
00:35:17,466 --> 00:35:20,500
[upbeat violin music]
660
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:27,533
♪ ♪
661
00:35:29,166 --> 00:35:34,033
- Look at the highlights
on that sausage sign.
662
00:35:34,033 --> 00:35:35,666
The lettering is amazing.
663
00:35:35,666 --> 00:35:36,933
You've got drop shadows.
664
00:35:36,933 --> 00:35:38,066
You've got italics.
665
00:35:38,066 --> 00:35:39,400
You've got outline.
666
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,633
Some have serifs, some don't.
667
00:35:41,633 --> 00:35:47,066
It's classic, old-style,
hand-painted sign lettering.
668
00:35:47,066 --> 00:35:51,233
I love these two characters
on the roof of the building.
669
00:35:51,233 --> 00:35:53,333
But it always cracks me
up that the little girl
670
00:35:53,333 --> 00:35:56,766
is carrying a mug that looks
like a giant mug of beer.
671
00:35:56,766 --> 00:36:00,866
And I think originally those
were root beer stand signs.
672
00:36:00,866 --> 00:36:04,333
But now, it looks like
she's an exclusively drunken
673
00:36:04,333 --> 00:36:06,466
child, which I love.
674
00:36:09,033 --> 00:36:11,333
I always drew comics.
675
00:36:11,333 --> 00:36:14,466
In school, it was making
fun of the teachers
676
00:36:14,466 --> 00:36:16,866
or the people in authority.
677
00:36:16,866 --> 00:36:23,733
And art was a way for me to
comment on what was going on.
678
00:36:23,733 --> 00:36:25,533
And I am very opinionated.
679
00:36:25,533 --> 00:36:27,100
And I have something
to say about everything.
680
00:36:29,733 --> 00:36:32,066
I didn't really think
of being a cartoonist.
681
00:36:32,066 --> 00:36:35,000
I just-- it was something
that was accessible to me.
682
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,933
It was a pencil
and a piece of paper.
683
00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:42,133
And it didn't require a whole
lot of expensive equipment.
684
00:36:42,133 --> 00:36:45,133
[light violin music]
685
00:36:45,133 --> 00:36:52,166
♪ ♪
686
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,833
I come from
a mixed background.
687
00:36:55,833 --> 00:36:59,633
I'm half Lebanese, half
white-bread American mongrel.
688
00:36:59,633 --> 00:37:02,800
And I didn't relate
to the little girls
689
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,033
in the books I was reading.
690
00:37:05,033 --> 00:37:08,800
And I didn't relate
to the downtrodden,
691
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,233
struggling whatever.
692
00:37:10,233 --> 00:37:14,566
I wanted characters
like me to be victorious.
693
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:17,566
[dramatic music]
694
00:37:17,566 --> 00:37:24,600
♪ ♪
695
00:37:31,266 --> 00:37:32,800
[billiard balls clattering]
696
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,300
I remember going to a gay
bar when I was underage.
697
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:38,600
And that was amazing.
698
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,666
[laughs]
Those are some stories.
699
00:37:42,233 --> 00:37:45,033
I remember seeing
all these older dykes
700
00:37:45,033 --> 00:37:47,133
and being fascinated by them.
701
00:37:47,133 --> 00:37:49,833
And the drink was the--
702
00:37:49,833 --> 00:37:51,333
what was that orange drink?
703
00:37:51,333 --> 00:37:52,800
Tequila Sunrises.
704
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,866
All those pretty drinks,
that bright colors.
705
00:37:55,866 --> 00:37:58,733
And there were these big
old dykes who had, like,
706
00:37:58,733 --> 00:38:00,333
been kicked out of the army.
707
00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:03,466
And they were like buying
drinks for their girls.
708
00:38:03,466 --> 00:38:05,666
And I was watching
everything and learning, oh,
709
00:38:05,666 --> 00:38:06,966
this is how you do it, right?
710
00:38:06,966 --> 00:38:10,066
[indistinct chatter]
711
00:38:10,066 --> 00:38:13,600
And I remember hanging out,
being just a little brat.
712
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,533
And that's really how
I saw the queer world
713
00:38:17,533 --> 00:38:21,600
and learned about
dyke behavior.
714
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,266
[upbeat music]
715
00:38:23,266 --> 00:38:25,033
[cat growls]
716
00:38:25,033 --> 00:38:32,066
♪ ♪
717
00:38:41,733 --> 00:38:48,433
My feeling was, I was creating
sexual imagery for dykes.
718
00:38:48,433 --> 00:38:51,166
And I felt like,
well, why can't
719
00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:53,633
we have our own sexy comics?
720
00:38:53,633 --> 00:38:56,633
[quirky music]
721
00:38:56,633 --> 00:39:03,733
♪ ♪
722
00:39:09,333 --> 00:39:12,200
Some women felt that
my work was too sexist
723
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,266
and I was objectifying women.
724
00:39:15,266 --> 00:39:16,266
I'm a dyke.
725
00:39:16,266 --> 00:39:17,700
I do objectify women.
726
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:18,700
I love them.
727
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:20,333
I find them sexy.
728
00:39:20,333 --> 00:39:23,100
I love the fact that people
were paying attention.
729
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:25,900
And if they got mad,
then I was doing my job.
730
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:28,900
[upbeat quirky music]
731
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:35,933
♪ ♪
732
00:39:41,066 --> 00:39:45,066
I never had an idea
that this was a career.
733
00:39:47,166 --> 00:39:51,533
This was what I did because I
loved it, because it was fun.
734
00:39:51,533 --> 00:39:56,433
In the early '80s,
Howard Cruse had started
735
00:39:56,433 --> 00:40:00,200
the anthology comic,
"Gay Comix," with an X.
736
00:40:01,700 --> 00:40:04,066
And I sent something in.
737
00:40:04,066 --> 00:40:06,633
And Howard said
he would print it.
738
00:40:06,633 --> 00:40:10,866
And Howard was just an amazing
editor, an amazing mentor.
739
00:40:10,866 --> 00:40:13,400
And as I went
along in my career,
740
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,200
every time I hit a wall of,
oh, how do I do a contract,
741
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,400
or how do I--
742
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,766
how much should
I charge for this?
743
00:40:19,766 --> 00:40:21,333
Or what if they don't pay me?
744
00:40:21,333 --> 00:40:23,400
You know, call Howard
because he'd know.
745
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:24,766
He'd done it, you know?
746
00:40:24,766 --> 00:40:29,800
And so he really is the
godfather of queer comics.
747
00:40:36,633 --> 00:40:41,266
- My now husband,
and for 37 years, partner,
748
00:40:41,266 --> 00:40:45,300
Eddie Sedarbaum, I met
in 1979 after I had lived
749
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:47,400
in New York for two years.
750
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,600
We met at a gay
discussion group.
751
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,500
I quickly detected
that he was a really
752
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:55,166
interesting person to talk to.
753
00:40:55,166 --> 00:40:57,466
And he had thoughtful
things to say.
754
00:40:57,466 --> 00:41:02,233
And it had possibilities of
moving beyond just a hook up.
755
00:41:03,466 --> 00:41:05,200
Here we are 37 years later.
756
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,000
- Have you ever
remembered your coffee?
757
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,433
- Once. I think I did once.
758
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,433
And starting with "Gay Comix"
and then continuing
759
00:41:16,433 --> 00:41:19,700
through the '80s,
I was drawing about the kind
760
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:26,466
of people like Eddie
and me and our friends.
761
00:41:26,466 --> 00:41:29,566
In the third issue,
I felt all the stories were
762
00:41:29,566 --> 00:41:33,100
about young, buff, gay men.
763
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:36,000
And I wanted to do
something about older gays
764
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,700
who were underrepresented.
765
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:41,000
So I created these two
characters, Luke and Clark.
766
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,000
And the story was
called "Dirty Old Lovers."
767
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,100
It spun off of some
of the kind of times
768
00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:46,500
that Eddie and I would have.
769
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:48,533
Eddie and I have always been
very uninhibited about,
770
00:41:48,533 --> 00:41:51,100
you know, saying lascivious
things about what
771
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:54,333
was going on around us
or taking note of cute guys.
772
00:41:54,333 --> 00:41:55,800
- Nice smile.
773
00:41:57,966 --> 00:41:59,166
- And so
the "Dirty Old Lovers,"
774
00:41:59,166 --> 00:42:00,466
it was just about a stroll
775
00:42:00,466 --> 00:42:01,666
they took in their
neighborhood.
776
00:42:01,666 --> 00:42:03,466
And ultimately,
they wound up at a bar.
777
00:42:03,466 --> 00:42:06,266
And all of the other guys
in this gay bar
778
00:42:06,266 --> 00:42:10,466
were being really snotty
about these two older gay men.
779
00:42:10,466 --> 00:42:13,433
This guy took umbrage at that
and went home with them.
780
00:42:13,433 --> 00:42:15,500
And so they had a nice,
cuddly threesome.
781
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:17,700
[door hinge squeaks]
782
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,900
It was an affirmative thing
about getting older.
783
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:26,833
It was also just fun to write,
because these guys
784
00:42:26,833 --> 00:42:28,900
are just so uninhibited.
785
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,833
And their repartee
wrote itself.
786
00:42:36,533 --> 00:42:37,800
- I have a--
787
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,666
I have a very early
"Dykes to Watch Out For."
788
00:42:39,666 --> 00:42:41,066
Oh my God, look it,
yeah, it's crappy.
789
00:42:41,066 --> 00:42:43,400
It's like just normal
drawing paper with Wite-Out
790
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,966
that's all chipping off.
791
00:42:44,966 --> 00:42:47,533
And I can tell you I drew it
with a Niji Stylus.
792
00:42:47,533 --> 00:42:49,133
Isn't that weird
that I can tell just by looking
793
00:42:49,133 --> 00:42:50,633
at the line what pen it was?
794
00:42:50,633 --> 00:42:54,133
[accordion music]
795
00:42:54,133 --> 00:42:57,133
It was almost a mission
of mine for a long time
796
00:42:57,133 --> 00:43:02,900
to show this stuff,
just to show real bodies,
797
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:05,666
people's real sex lives.
798
00:43:05,666 --> 00:43:10,233
♪ ♪
799
00:43:10,233 --> 00:43:12,633
I wanted to
de-stigmatize lesbian
800
00:43:12,633 --> 00:43:15,433
sexuality and women's bodies.
801
00:43:15,433 --> 00:43:19,033
It was something I felt
really passionately about.
802
00:43:19,033 --> 00:43:22,433
♪ ♪
803
00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:26,200
Well, here's one after
I introduced the characters.
804
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,400
And it's an episode where
they're all on their way
805
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,566
to the 1987
March on Washington.
806
00:43:30,566 --> 00:43:33,500
[engines revving]
807
00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:39,900
♪ ♪
808
00:43:39,900 --> 00:43:43,100
About four years after
I drew the first cartoon,
809
00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:47,666
I finally took the plunge into
creating regular characters,
810
00:43:47,666 --> 00:43:50,133
like I had seen Howard do.
811
00:43:50,133 --> 00:43:52,666
Never looked back.
812
00:43:52,666 --> 00:43:55,033
Every two weeks,
I had to further
813
00:43:55,033 --> 00:43:56,166
my characters' narrative.
814
00:43:56,166 --> 00:43:59,000
And I had to weave in
the latest
815
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,800
horror that had happened
on the political scene.
816
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,800
♪ ♪
817
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,500
Many of my characters
were also consumed
818
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:07,933
with all of this stuff
that was going on,
819
00:44:07,933 --> 00:44:13,333
the Patriot Act, and all this
sort of creeping fascism.
820
00:44:13,333 --> 00:44:14,466
I kept track of this all
821
00:44:14,466 --> 00:44:16,633
with this
crazy spreadsheet.
822
00:44:16,633 --> 00:44:18,733
You keep track of the
episodes across the top.
823
00:44:18,733 --> 00:44:22,233
And down the side
are all your characters.
824
00:44:22,233 --> 00:44:25,900
So I would map out my stories
almost like they were
825
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:27,133
spontaneously generated.
826
00:44:27,133 --> 00:44:28,500
Like, I put all this
information
827
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,000
into the spreadsheet,
and I got a story out of it.
828
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:39,033
♪ ♪
829
00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:51,933
- The first time I can remember
seeing a trans guy represented
830
00:44:51,933 --> 00:44:53,666
in comics,
I think, was probably
831
00:44:53,666 --> 00:44:55,700
in "Dykes to Watch Out For."
832
00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:58,433
Oh look, I exist.
833
00:44:58,433 --> 00:45:00,800
- You know, one way or another,
we all have someone we're
834
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,433
scared to tell something to.
835
00:45:02,433 --> 00:45:04,466
And it's just a--
836
00:45:04,466 --> 00:45:07,333
it's a great starting
point for stories.
837
00:45:07,333 --> 00:45:09,500
- [slurping]
838
00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:14,200
♪ ♪
839
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,833
- I would religiously read
Robb Kirby's "Curbside."
840
00:45:17,833 --> 00:45:20,700
Wow, I really wanted to
be a gay man in New York,
841
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:23,366
because I'm still, deep in
my heart, a huge fan girl.
842
00:45:23,366 --> 00:45:24,366
[bottle pops]
843
00:45:24,366 --> 00:45:27,300
[people cheering]
844
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:31,400
- I love that Jen Camper
is an out Arab American
845
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,533
hardcore feminist woman.
846
00:45:33,533 --> 00:45:37,333
- The first queer
comic that I saw--
847
00:45:37,333 --> 00:45:38,966
that I was like,
OK, this is gay,
848
00:45:38,966 --> 00:45:41,233
and like, I have to hide
this from my family,
849
00:45:41,233 --> 00:45:42,633
was the "Wendel" comic.
850
00:45:42,633 --> 00:45:47,166
♪ ♪
851
00:45:47,166 --> 00:45:49,800
- Most of my comics
are not about violence.
852
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,700
But this was a scene where
Wendel and his friends
853
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:57,100
are attacked by homophobes.
854
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,933
And you have a scene
such as this where Wendel
855
00:46:00,933 --> 00:46:02,100
is getting hit in the face.
856
00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:03,566
It's very central on the page.
857
00:46:03,566 --> 00:46:07,033
For regular "Wendel" readers,
it's shocking.
858
00:46:07,033 --> 00:46:08,666
You know, we love Wendel.
859
00:46:08,666 --> 00:46:10,366
We don't want him to get hit.
860
00:46:10,366 --> 00:46:11,933
[seagull squawking]
861
00:46:11,933 --> 00:46:14,933
[delicate piano music]
862
00:46:14,933 --> 00:46:16,833
♪ ♪
863
00:46:16,833 --> 00:46:19,300
I decided, well,
maybe I should have
864
00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:23,233
Wendel find himself
in love with a guy
865
00:46:23,233 --> 00:46:25,333
and form a relationship.
866
00:46:25,333 --> 00:46:27,800
♪ ♪
867
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,800
It was an area that had
not been covered a lot,
868
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,333
the actual development
of a gay relationship.
869
00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:37,166
♪ ♪
870
00:46:37,166 --> 00:46:41,766
Wendel didn't have scars
from being in the closet.
871
00:46:41,766 --> 00:46:44,166
Ollie, you know,
had a lot of leftover fears
872
00:46:44,166 --> 00:46:46,833
about consequences
of being openly gay,
873
00:46:46,833 --> 00:46:49,166
had trouble coming
out to his parents.
874
00:46:49,166 --> 00:46:51,933
So that was drawing on the
part of me that remembered
875
00:46:51,933 --> 00:46:53,933
that experience vividly.
876
00:46:55,466 --> 00:46:57,866
There's a sequence
when Ollie finally decides
877
00:46:57,866 --> 00:46:59,900
to come out to his family.
878
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,666
He's being very bold about it.
879
00:47:01,666 --> 00:47:05,166
And he gets his
little mass letter.
880
00:47:05,166 --> 00:47:07,633
You know, and he puts
it in the mailbox
881
00:47:07,633 --> 00:47:09,900
and then has
an anxiety attack, you know,
882
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:11,233
hugging the mailbox,
883
00:47:11,233 --> 00:47:13,333
and what have I done?
884
00:47:17,266 --> 00:47:20,366
- Ten years or so after I wrote
"Come Out Comix,"
885
00:47:20,366 --> 00:47:23,366
there was a gay and lesbian
comic scene.
886
00:47:23,366 --> 00:47:25,133
It happened so fast.
887
00:47:25,133 --> 00:47:26,600
And it grew so huge.
888
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,766
And I met amazing people.
889
00:47:28,766 --> 00:47:30,500
And suddenly, I had a--
890
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:32,833
I had a whole wonderful group,
891
00:47:32,833 --> 00:47:34,900
national and international,
around me.
892
00:47:34,900 --> 00:47:36,500
It was very exciting.
893
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:37,933
[rock music]
894
00:47:37,933 --> 00:47:39,733
- I'm here
at A Different Light bookstore
895
00:47:39,733 --> 00:47:42,766
for the opening
of "Queer Cartoons!" show.
896
00:47:42,766 --> 00:47:46,600
And we have 51 artists
in this show,
897
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,900
168 pages
of fabulous cartoon art.
898
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:53,466
I put this show together with
my good friend Dan Seitler,
899
00:47:53,466 --> 00:47:55,000
who's a wonderful cartoonist.
900
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,433
And we wanted to
celebrate cartoonists
901
00:47:57,433 --> 00:48:00,633
and the gay artists
that we know and promote--
902
00:48:00,633 --> 00:48:03,733
We got to do pretty much
whatever we wanted.
903
00:48:03,733 --> 00:48:06,233
And that was really exciting.
904
00:48:06,233 --> 00:48:07,566
I'm Jennifer Camper.
905
00:48:07,566 --> 00:48:09,500
And I'm hanging out
here in the bathtub.
906
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,700
[toilet flushes]
907
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:15,400
[laughter]
908
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,133
None of us made money.
909
00:48:17,133 --> 00:48:19,833
But we had a whole lot
of creative freedom.
910
00:48:19,833 --> 00:48:21,233
- I'm Alison Bechdel.
911
00:48:21,233 --> 00:48:23,066
And I draw "Dykes to Watch Out
For" cartoons.
912
00:48:23,066 --> 00:48:25,000
Another thing that was
terribly exciting to me
913
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,300
about comics was,
no one was judging it.
914
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:34,366
No one was-- it was like
this free play zone.
915
00:48:34,366 --> 00:48:36,366
[upbeat piano music]
916
00:48:36,366 --> 00:48:39,900
There were absolutely
no rules or limits.
917
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:42,400
People were drawing
all kinds of naked bodies
918
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,166
and sexual activities.
919
00:48:44,166 --> 00:48:46,166
And the crazier something
could be, the better.
920
00:48:46,166 --> 00:48:47,333
- [belches]
921
00:48:47,333 --> 00:48:52,966
♪ ♪
922
00:48:52,966 --> 00:48:56,066
- I didn't feel like there
was competition,
923
00:48:56,066 --> 00:48:59,333
because nobody
was doing the same thing.
924
00:48:59,333 --> 00:49:01,866
Each of us had
a really distinctive
925
00:49:01,866 --> 00:49:04,766
drawing style and voice.
926
00:49:04,766 --> 00:49:08,866
And we all were talking
about different aspects
927
00:49:08,866 --> 00:49:10,566
of queer community.
928
00:49:10,566 --> 00:49:17,600
♪ ♪
929
00:49:32,566 --> 00:49:35,633
[engine revving]
930
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:45,966
♪ ♪
931
00:49:49,533 --> 00:49:54,633
In the '90s, every major
city had a gay newspaper.
932
00:50:00,966 --> 00:50:04,300
We were all doing comics maybe
for one or two newspapers.
933
00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:05,866
And then suddenly,
it was like, whoa,
934
00:50:05,866 --> 00:50:07,800
there's 50 newspapers
in the United States
935
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,500
that we could send
our comics to.
936
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:11,666
[upbeat music]
937
00:50:11,666 --> 00:50:15,033
People got the idea that
we can syndicate our comics.
938
00:50:15,033 --> 00:50:22,066
♪ ♪
939
00:50:23,733 --> 00:50:25,800
- "Windy City Times"
in Chicago,
940
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,400
I think they offered
$25 for each strip.
941
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:34,366
And I think I thought, oh,
OK, that would really help.
942
00:50:34,366 --> 00:50:36,800
And then you get
somewhat syndicated
943
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,266
to a couple of other papers,
and then they pay you.
944
00:50:39,266 --> 00:50:43,433
Then it starts
being significant.
945
00:50:43,433 --> 00:50:45,566
[knock at door]
946
00:50:45,566 --> 00:50:48,400
I went from having
the strip published
947
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,866
in college, that community,
and then in Portland.
948
00:50:52,866 --> 00:50:55,033
And then when I went
to the Bay Area,
949
00:50:55,033 --> 00:50:56,200
it was published in
950
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,566
a queer newspaper,
"Bay Times,"
951
00:50:59,566 --> 00:51:02,300
and then in "The Sentinel."
952
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:09,066
♪ ♪
953
00:51:09,066 --> 00:51:12,200
When I left "The Sentinel,"
954
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,266
the biggest step for me
with my comic strip
955
00:51:15,266 --> 00:51:18,200
is when it first started
956
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,366
being published in "SF Weekly."
957
00:51:20,366 --> 00:51:22,100
♪ ♪
958
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,833
It was like
a larger playground.
959
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:33,000
I realized that I had a unique
voice in those publications
960
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,900
to challenge.
961
00:51:38,266 --> 00:51:41,400
I experienced a lot
in the gay community
962
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,266
as an African American.
963
00:51:44,266 --> 00:51:47,033
So I'm like-- I'm using
this as an opportunity
964
00:51:47,033 --> 00:51:50,733
to talk about these things
that we should be addressing.
965
00:51:50,733 --> 00:51:52,700
[bell dings]
966
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:56,700
[accordion music]
967
00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:58,833
- From the very
first time I saw
968
00:51:58,833 --> 00:52:02,033
an image of the Brown Bomber
and Diva of the World,
969
00:52:02,033 --> 00:52:04,700
I was just like who is that?
970
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:05,933
Who are these characters?
971
00:52:05,933 --> 00:52:08,200
I love them.
972
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,200
Upon reading more
of his work,
973
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,100
I was just struck
by the level of analysis
974
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:15,233
and the intersectionality
that he
975
00:52:15,233 --> 00:52:17,333
was able to portray
in his work,
976
00:52:17,333 --> 00:52:19,900
talking about the experience
of being Black and gay
977
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:21,366
or being Black and woman.
978
00:52:27,933 --> 00:52:29,600
- To be Black and queer
979
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,133
and only know
about Rupert's work,
980
00:52:32,133 --> 00:52:34,266
Rupert Kinnard's work
two years ago,
981
00:52:34,266 --> 00:52:37,433
at Queers & Comics,
is kind of--
982
00:52:37,433 --> 00:52:38,733
it was profound to me.
983
00:52:38,733 --> 00:52:40,466
But also it made me very sad.
984
00:52:40,466 --> 00:52:42,166
Because I'm like,
how many other Ruperts
985
00:52:42,166 --> 00:52:45,500
are there that I don't know
about that I could have used?
986
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:47,333
Not only was he
making queer comics
987
00:52:47,333 --> 00:52:51,733
about being Black and queer,
but this was way, way back.
988
00:52:51,733 --> 00:52:53,133
And it's not a new thing.
989
00:52:53,133 --> 00:52:56,566
And it would have been nice
to not have to struggle,
990
00:52:56,566 --> 00:52:58,066
is it OK for me to do this?
991
00:52:58,066 --> 00:53:02,433
♪ ♪
992
00:53:02,433 --> 00:53:05,133
[crowd cheering]
993
00:53:05,133 --> 00:53:07,533
- The differences
between Rupert's work
994
00:53:07,533 --> 00:53:10,866
and my work kind of reflect the
times that we were working in.
995
00:53:10,866 --> 00:53:14,566
You know, Rupert's
characters were very much
996
00:53:14,566 --> 00:53:18,833
directly interfacing with white
characters that didn't get it.
997
00:53:18,833 --> 00:53:22,133
And here and now, as artists,
we don't necessarily
998
00:53:22,133 --> 00:53:25,266
have to put a white character
at the center of the
999
00:53:25,266 --> 00:53:26,833
narrative anymore.
1000
00:53:26,833 --> 00:53:30,400
- I'm privileged that I have
access to so many people
1001
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,966
who happen to look like me.
1002
00:53:31,966 --> 00:53:39,000
♪ ♪
1003
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:01,533
- Everybody takes inspiration
from the generation before.
1004
00:54:01,533 --> 00:54:04,066
After Art Spiegelman
came out with "Maus,"
1005
00:54:04,066 --> 00:54:07,866
there began to be serious
literary graphic novels.
1006
00:54:07,866 --> 00:54:09,033
There was always
the question that,
1007
00:54:09,033 --> 00:54:11,266
could I do a graphic novel?
1008
00:54:15,033 --> 00:54:17,000
And I thought,
there's been very little
1009
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,666
coverage about what gay life
before Stonewall
1010
00:54:20,666 --> 00:54:22,633
in the South was like.
1011
00:54:22,633 --> 00:54:25,633
[light music]
1012
00:54:25,633 --> 00:54:32,666
♪ ♪
1013
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,466
And it was all of this
ferment in Birmingham
1014
00:54:37,466 --> 00:54:40,133
about civil rights
at the same time.
1015
00:54:40,133 --> 00:54:41,766
So I would be able
to cover some ground
1016
00:54:41,766 --> 00:54:45,033
that hadn't been covered
in other gay literature.
1017
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:50,900
Going into a project as long
as "Stuck Rubber Baby,"
1018
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:52,900
it was a big, scary step.
1019
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,066
I got a contract.
1020
00:54:56,066 --> 00:54:59,033
And I had an advance
covering two years.
1021
00:54:59,033 --> 00:55:00,833
♪ ♪
1022
00:55:00,833 --> 00:55:04,166
But I realized that
to tell this story,
1023
00:55:04,166 --> 00:55:09,333
you needed to feel the world
around the characters.
1024
00:55:09,333 --> 00:55:13,733
It couldn't be done without
putting time into drawing
1025
00:55:13,733 --> 00:55:15,833
in more detail,
with more shading
1026
00:55:15,833 --> 00:55:18,133
than I had ever done before.
1027
00:55:18,133 --> 00:55:25,166
♪ ♪
1028
00:55:35,566 --> 00:55:38,966
I began to panic when I saw
that I couldn't go nearly
1029
00:55:38,966 --> 00:55:41,100
as fast as I had thought.
1030
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:42,733
And then I was
thinking, oh, no,
1031
00:55:42,733 --> 00:55:45,533
this is going to be
a disaster.
1032
00:55:45,533 --> 00:55:49,566
How would I--
how would I pay the rent?
1033
00:55:49,566 --> 00:55:51,900
And finally, I just had
to change my attitude,
1034
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:53,800
and I said, well,
I'll just have to take
1035
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,000
whatever time it takes.
1036
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,600
And it wound up
taking four years.
1037
00:56:00,633 --> 00:56:03,033
A lot of people
are surprised that these
1038
00:56:03,033 --> 00:56:05,600
are as large as they are.
1039
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,500
These are actually
2 1/2 times the size
1040
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:10,400
that they appear in the book.
1041
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,366
It allows me to put in
detail the large amount
1042
00:56:13,366 --> 00:56:15,000
of cross-hatching
to try to create
1043
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,100
a shading, a graduated shading
from lighter to darker.
1044
00:56:19,100 --> 00:56:22,200
The book uses a lot of that.
1045
00:56:25,233 --> 00:56:28,100
This is an example
of comic book conventions.
1046
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:30,600
So things like,
in this case, the dog,
1047
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,933
which intrudes
into the surrounding panels.
1048
00:56:33,933 --> 00:56:38,166
The feeling of threat is right
at the center of the page.
1049
00:56:38,166 --> 00:56:40,166
If possible,
I like to always have
1050
00:56:40,166 --> 00:56:42,666
what I call an anchor panel,
the panel
1051
00:56:42,666 --> 00:56:44,466
I most want the eye
to fall on when
1052
00:56:44,466 --> 00:56:46,000
the person turns the page.
1053
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,366
And in this one,
it would be this.
1054
00:56:48,366 --> 00:56:50,300
But they still need to read
the panels that go before
1055
00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:51,900
to see how it fits
into the story.
1056
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:54,566
But it gives coherence,
you know,
1057
00:56:54,566 --> 00:56:59,033
if you-- so it's not just
a bunch of random rectangles.
1058
00:56:59,033 --> 00:57:01,700
In each given layout
for the page,
1059
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:04,933
I tried to suggest
the atmosphere
1060
00:57:04,933 --> 00:57:06,633
that's going on in the scene.
1061
00:57:06,633 --> 00:57:10,433
Here you have, I wanted
a certain feeling of chaos,
1062
00:57:10,433 --> 00:57:13,366
because they're
in the middle of a riot.
1063
00:57:13,366 --> 00:57:14,833
[dog barking]
1064
00:57:14,833 --> 00:57:16,333
[brakes screech]
1065
00:57:16,333 --> 00:57:18,233
[whistle tweets]
1066
00:57:18,233 --> 00:57:21,266
[crowd chanting indistinctly]
1067
00:57:28,366 --> 00:57:30,800
It was a wonderful
artistic experience,
1068
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,900
as financially disastrous
as it was.
1069
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:41,933
♪ ♪
1070
00:58:00,866 --> 00:58:03,400
- For a long time,
I kept getting more
1071
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,166
gay newspapers every year.
1072
00:58:05,166 --> 00:58:07,733
It was like
this growing thing.
1073
00:58:08,966 --> 00:58:10,800
I was selling more
of my books.
1074
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,333
I was publishing
these collections
1075
00:58:12,333 --> 00:58:13,366
of the comic strip.
1076
00:58:16,133 --> 00:58:18,366
And then all of a sudden,
in the late '90s,
1077
00:58:18,366 --> 00:58:22,766
turn of the millennium,
everything started drying up.
1078
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,100
There was the internet,
but there was also
1079
00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:32,066
the rise of Amazon.com
and Barnes & Noble, these--
1080
00:58:32,066 --> 00:58:33,433
you know,
these chain bookstores
1081
00:58:33,433 --> 00:58:36,700
that were changing the
whole publishing landscape,
1082
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:38,966
you know.
1083
00:58:38,966 --> 00:58:41,700
Anything fringe
or alternative
1084
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:45,033
or independent was dying.
1085
00:58:47,133 --> 00:58:50,966
- "Gay Comix"
stopped publishing.
1086
00:58:50,966 --> 00:58:52,866
A lot of us were
doing great work.
1087
00:58:52,866 --> 00:58:56,066
But we weren't really
finding places to publish it.
1088
00:58:56,066 --> 00:58:57,500
That pissed me off.
1089
00:58:57,500 --> 00:59:01,733
So I decided to do an anthology
called "Juicy Mother."
1090
00:59:01,733 --> 00:59:04,133
And the cover is
by Karen Platt.
1091
00:59:04,133 --> 00:59:07,266
And it's a big gay party.
1092
00:59:07,266 --> 00:59:10,266
Each "Juicy Mother"
had a cartoon jam.
1093
00:59:12,766 --> 00:59:16,833
And a cartoon jam works where
one person does a panel...
1094
00:59:19,266 --> 00:59:21,700
Gives it to the next person,
and they do a panel,
1095
00:59:21,700 --> 00:59:23,033
and they give it
to the next person.
1096
00:59:23,033 --> 00:59:25,733
And it goes around
a few times.
1097
00:59:28,033 --> 00:59:30,466
And you get a whole story.
1098
00:59:35,133 --> 00:59:37,500
What's fun about
a cartoon jam is,
1099
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:39,300
you get to draw
each other's comics.
1100
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,466
But what's weird about it is,
you don't have control.
1101
00:59:43,466 --> 00:59:45,633
And suddenly, you've got
to give up your character.
1102
00:59:45,633 --> 00:59:47,933
And somebody else
could kill them off.
1103
00:59:47,933 --> 00:59:51,933
So I did a lot of cartoon jams
where I kind of edited them
1104
00:59:51,933 --> 00:59:53,333
and brought people together.
1105
00:59:53,333 --> 00:59:55,566
And back in the day,
it was all done by mail.
1106
00:59:55,566 --> 00:59:57,433
And they're great.
They're crazy.
1107
00:59:57,433 --> 00:59:58,466
They're nuts.
1108
00:59:58,466 --> 01:00:00,266
And they're a lot of fun.
1109
01:00:03,700 --> 01:00:06,733
[upbeat punk music]
1110
01:00:06,733 --> 01:00:13,433
♪ ♪
1111
01:00:13,433 --> 01:00:16,900
- As the gay ghetto
was crumbling in a way,
1112
01:00:16,900 --> 01:00:20,233
there was also the rise
of the punk and DIY movement.
1113
01:00:20,233 --> 01:00:24,200
And so people started
making their own zines.
1114
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,633
♪ ♪
1115
01:00:27,633 --> 01:00:29,566
Maybe you couldn't
get published
1116
01:00:29,566 --> 01:00:32,466
by a major publishing house or
even a minor publishing house,
1117
01:00:32,466 --> 01:00:34,066
but you could make
your own zine.
1118
01:00:34,066 --> 01:00:41,100
♪ ♪
1119
01:00:44,133 --> 01:00:46,033
- To make a zine,
all you need to do
1120
01:00:46,033 --> 01:00:49,466
is write or draw something,
photocopy it,
1121
01:00:49,466 --> 01:00:50,966
fold it, you staple it.
1122
01:00:50,966 --> 01:00:53,000
You make hundreds of copies,
and you sell and trade
1123
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,600
them with all your friends.
1124
01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:00,800
The storytelling became very
personal, raw, and visceral.
1125
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,333
Diane DiMassa
did "Hothead Paisan."
1126
01:01:03,333 --> 01:01:05,866
And it's one of
the most amazing
1127
01:01:05,866 --> 01:01:08,500
little self-published
comics to come out.
1128
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:11,733
"Hothead Paisan" is a
homicidal lesbian terrorist.
1129
01:01:11,733 --> 01:01:14,300
And she's filled
with rage.
1130
01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:15,633
[upbeat music]
1131
01:01:15,633 --> 01:01:17,800
And she goes
through life reacting
1132
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,133
to all the injustice
that's around her.
1133
01:01:20,133 --> 01:01:27,166
♪ ♪
1134
01:01:32,033 --> 01:01:34,900
- She was this-- almost
like a cavewoman unleashed.
1135
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,400
She walked like this.
1136
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,833
And her hair was like
crazy and sticking out.
1137
01:01:38,833 --> 01:01:40,100
And she would get
so angry at men
1138
01:01:40,100 --> 01:01:42,500
that she would grab like
a labrys or something
1139
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:44,100
and chop them up
or threaten to.
1140
01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:45,433
- We'd get away
with a lot of stuff,
1141
01:01:45,433 --> 01:01:47,100
because no one even knows
to stop it sometimes.
1142
01:01:47,100 --> 01:01:48,633
They're not paying
attention to us.
1143
01:01:48,633 --> 01:01:50,100
There's a lot of freedom there.
1144
01:01:50,100 --> 01:01:53,000
- Right now, the emphasis
I'm seeing a lot more
1145
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,633
in the zine communities
is about heritage,
1146
01:01:55,633 --> 01:01:58,200
about culture, really
more and more artists
1147
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,166
who are going back
to their histories,
1148
01:02:00,166 --> 01:02:04,700
back to their family history
and saying, "This is who I am.
1149
01:02:04,700 --> 01:02:06,900
"This is what defines me,
my identity.
1150
01:02:06,900 --> 01:02:08,133
"Yes, I'm a queer person.
1151
01:02:08,133 --> 01:02:11,266
But I'm also
this other person."
1152
01:02:11,266 --> 01:02:14,166
[light music]
1153
01:02:14,166 --> 01:02:16,633
♪ ♪
1154
01:02:16,633 --> 01:02:18,866
- So then when
the internet really
1155
01:02:18,866 --> 01:02:21,233
became part of
everybody's world,
1156
01:02:21,233 --> 01:02:23,700
people started
putting their comics
1157
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:25,900
online and getting responses.
1158
01:02:25,900 --> 01:02:32,500
And webcomics became a huge
community for all cartoonists,
1159
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:35,500
particularly for people
who were marginalized.
1160
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:38,500
[light guitar music]
1161
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:45,533
♪ ♪
1162
01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:52,466
[bat cracks]
1163
01:02:52,466 --> 01:02:59,400
♪ ♪
1164
01:03:16,333 --> 01:03:20,600
- I was in Mississippi
for my grandmother's funeral.
1165
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,566
And the very next day,
I was on a two-lane highway.
1166
01:03:24,566 --> 01:03:27,466
I encountered a car
veering into my lane.
1167
01:03:27,466 --> 01:03:33,833
And I turned my steering wheel
sharply and went into a ditch.
1168
01:03:33,833 --> 01:03:36,933
It was a freak
accident in that there
1169
01:03:36,933 --> 01:03:41,033
was no damage to the car, no
damage to me except my hands
1170
01:03:41,033 --> 01:03:42,233
could feel my legs.
1171
01:03:42,233 --> 01:03:45,533
But my legs didn't
feel my hand.
1172
01:03:51,233 --> 01:03:56,133
Scott had to fly
to the hospital in Memphis.
1173
01:03:56,133 --> 01:03:58,000
And there was my mother
and father.
1174
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,133
And Scott came into
the room and basically
1175
01:04:02,133 --> 01:04:05,466
turned to the nurse and said,
"I'm his partner.
1176
01:04:05,466 --> 01:04:06,466
"I'll need a cot.
1177
01:04:06,466 --> 01:04:09,166
I'll be sleeping next to him."
1178
01:04:09,166 --> 01:04:11,100
It wasn't any of this,
"I'm wondering
1179
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:14,433
"if it's possible that I might
be able to get a cot.
1180
01:04:14,433 --> 01:04:15,733
"I'm not sure.
1181
01:04:15,733 --> 01:04:18,966
I'm not really related,
but he's my partner."
1182
01:04:18,966 --> 01:04:21,033
It was just gung ho.
1183
01:04:21,033 --> 01:04:23,066
My father is like,
what the hell?
1184
01:04:23,066 --> 01:04:25,466
My mom is like,
1185
01:04:25,466 --> 01:04:26,666
really?
1186
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:31,666
She didn't have to be
the primary person.
1187
01:04:31,666 --> 01:04:36,600
She got to see my partner
do what partners do.
1188
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:40,100
And boy, was that the beginning
of an incredible relationship
1189
01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:42,500
between Scott and my mom.
1190
01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:45,533
[indistinct chatter]
1191
01:04:58,066 --> 01:05:01,733
[accordion music]
1192
01:05:01,733 --> 01:05:05,200
I saw a few of
John Callahan's drawings
1193
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,966
and work before I even
realized he's a paraplegic.
1194
01:05:08,966 --> 01:05:12,500
♪ ♪
1195
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:15,233
I ran into him,
and he was in a chair.
1196
01:05:15,233 --> 01:05:18,233
And that was long
before my accident.
1197
01:05:18,233 --> 01:05:19,866
♪ ♪
1198
01:05:19,866 --> 01:05:24,200
In no way was he gay, but he
knew of my work in "Just Out."
1199
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,233
So we connected
as these two cartoonists.
1200
01:05:28,233 --> 01:05:31,066
Years later,
I run into Callahan.
1201
01:05:31,066 --> 01:05:32,766
He goes, "What's up with you?"
1202
01:05:32,766 --> 01:05:36,566
"Well, there needs to be more
than one paraplegic cartoonist
1203
01:05:36,566 --> 01:05:37,600
in Portland."
1204
01:05:44,666 --> 01:05:48,533
It was a little bit of
serendipity that I knew him,
1205
01:05:48,533 --> 01:05:55,000
because there's this anger
1206
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,166
about the way you're treated
1207
01:05:57,166 --> 01:06:01,000
and how it affects you
that makes
1208
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,300
it fascinating
for me to see how you
1209
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:05,300
represent that in your work.
1210
01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:12,333
♪ ♪
1211
01:06:20,833 --> 01:06:24,300
- So this is a cartoon that
I was doing at that difficult
1212
01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:27,166
period when I didn't know
if I was going to be
1213
01:06:27,166 --> 01:06:29,100
able to keep affording--
1214
01:06:29,100 --> 01:06:30,633
being able to afford
being a cartoonist.
1215
01:06:30,633 --> 01:06:33,666
[telephone ringing]
1216
01:06:37,066 --> 01:06:39,700
I was losing newspapers,
losing bookstores.
1217
01:06:39,700 --> 01:06:42,700
My publisher said,
"You know, the only sector
1218
01:06:42,700 --> 01:06:45,300
"of this industry that's
growing is graphic novels.
1219
01:06:45,300 --> 01:06:47,000
You should write
a graphic novel."
1220
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,333
And I thought, well,
I've always wanted to tell
1221
01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:51,300
this story about my family.
1222
01:06:51,300 --> 01:06:54,300
[accordion music]
1223
01:06:54,300 --> 01:06:58,466
♪ ♪
1224
01:06:58,466 --> 01:07:00,366
After graduating from college,
I was going through
1225
01:07:00,366 --> 01:07:01,666
all these old family photos.
1226
01:07:01,666 --> 01:07:03,933
And in an envelope
of pictures of me
1227
01:07:03,933 --> 01:07:05,333
and my brother at the beach,
1228
01:07:05,333 --> 01:07:08,400
there was also a picture
of this young man
1229
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,500
in his tighty-whities
lying on a bed.
1230
01:07:12,933 --> 01:07:17,433
I had stumbled along
in my blithe, happy way,
1231
01:07:17,433 --> 01:07:18,733
coming out to my parents.
1232
01:07:18,733 --> 01:07:23,800
I unearthed their dark,
hidden, painful secret...
1233
01:07:25,433 --> 01:07:30,300
That my father had had affairs
with other men
1234
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,600
and boys, some of his
high school students
1235
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,633
over the course
of their marriage.
1236
01:07:36,233 --> 01:07:38,833
And then, it was very
shortly after that
1237
01:07:38,833 --> 01:07:39,900
that my father died.
1238
01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:46,933
♪ ♪
1239
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:54,100
My mom said, you know,
I think he did it on purpose.
1240
01:07:55,466 --> 01:07:57,300
[tires screech]
1241
01:08:09,133 --> 01:08:13,166
You know, it's hard to pinpoint
the exact causal relationship
1242
01:08:13,166 --> 01:08:14,200
between everything.
1243
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,966
But yeah, I feel
like if I hadn't--
1244
01:08:16,966 --> 01:08:19,900
if I hadn't come out
or if I hadn't told them,
1245
01:08:19,900 --> 01:08:22,433
things would have
happened differently.
1246
01:08:22,433 --> 01:08:25,266
You know,
he might still be alive.
1247
01:08:25,266 --> 01:08:27,166
I don't know.
1248
01:08:33,533 --> 01:08:35,200
Writing "Fun Home" was--
1249
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:36,200
it was hard.
1250
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,833
And I felt a little crazy.
1251
01:08:37,833 --> 01:08:39,900
I didn't know
what I was doing.
1252
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:42,400
I didn't know how to write
a serious story like that.
1253
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,733
I had Howard's "Stuck Rubber
Baby" as a model.
1254
01:08:45,733 --> 01:08:47,966
But I knew that that had
taken him years and years
1255
01:08:47,966 --> 01:08:50,433
and driven him almost mad.
1256
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,966
I spent many,
many hours trying to recreate
1257
01:08:55,966 --> 01:08:59,533
that blurry color photo.
1258
01:09:01,333 --> 01:09:04,166
And then I had to draw,
you know, stuff like my father
1259
01:09:04,166 --> 01:09:06,633
in the casket.
1260
01:09:06,633 --> 01:09:10,033
I posed for my dead father
in the coffin.
1261
01:09:10,033 --> 01:09:12,733
I posed for almost
everything in that book.
1262
01:09:12,733 --> 01:09:15,700
I mean, at the time,
it was just a drawing aid.
1263
01:09:15,700 --> 01:09:20,266
But it was also a way for me to
enter into the emotional world
1264
01:09:20,266 --> 01:09:21,500
of the story.
1265
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:28,533
♪ ♪
1266
01:09:30,266 --> 01:09:32,400
- I fell in love with the book.
1267
01:09:35,266 --> 01:09:40,533
I was immediately taken
by the mere accomplishment.
1268
01:09:41,900 --> 01:09:44,333
Then when
the story unfolded,
1269
01:09:44,333 --> 01:09:46,166
it was like
I know this person.
1270
01:09:46,166 --> 01:09:49,266
I always wondered
about her background.
1271
01:09:49,266 --> 01:09:52,866
Not only is it explaining
things; it's just--
1272
01:09:52,866 --> 01:09:55,966
I'm awestruck
with every revelation.
1273
01:09:55,966 --> 01:10:00,433
♪ ♪
1274
01:10:00,433 --> 01:10:02,300
[telephone rings]
1275
01:10:05,100 --> 01:10:06,933
- I wasn't thinking
about it reaching
1276
01:10:06,933 --> 01:10:08,333
a mainstream audience.
1277
01:10:08,333 --> 01:10:10,600
I didn't know who was going
to read this weird book.
1278
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,700
You know, I hoped that the
people who read my comic strip
1279
01:10:13,700 --> 01:10:15,833
would be interested.
1280
01:10:15,833 --> 01:10:17,833
But even that I wasn't sure of
1281
01:10:17,833 --> 01:10:19,366
because it was so different
and weird.
1282
01:10:19,366 --> 01:10:20,933
And it was becoming
this much more
1283
01:10:20,933 --> 01:10:25,333
literary-sounding thing
that I thought
1284
01:10:25,333 --> 01:10:27,300
they might not like.
1285
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:32,333
And then it was
actually successful.
1286
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,200
Book critics read it
and reviewed it as a book
1287
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,333
and not as a comic book,
you know.
1288
01:10:39,333 --> 01:10:43,100
So that was a huge gift
and a part of what enabled it
1289
01:10:43,100 --> 01:10:45,833
to reach a bigger audience.
1290
01:10:45,833 --> 01:10:49,066
♪ ♪
1291
01:10:49,066 --> 01:10:53,300
Because of how comics had been
progressing toward being taken
1292
01:10:53,300 --> 01:10:56,700
seriously as a literary
form in recent years,
1293
01:10:56,700 --> 01:10:59,133
"Fun Home" made it
over that threshold.
1294
01:10:59,133 --> 01:11:03,066
♪ ♪
1295
01:11:03,066 --> 01:11:05,900
- "TIME" magazine voted it
one of the Books of the Year.
1296
01:11:05,900 --> 01:11:09,166
And I thought Alison has
really reached the pinnacle.
1297
01:11:09,166 --> 01:11:10,733
And then the next
thing I hear are
1298
01:11:10,733 --> 01:11:12,366
these stirrings of a musical.
1299
01:11:12,366 --> 01:11:16,966
♪ ♪
1300
01:11:16,966 --> 01:11:18,333
- It is so strange to me.
1301
01:11:18,333 --> 01:11:21,033
I don't even know
how to think about it.
1302
01:11:21,033 --> 01:11:23,933
Like the butch delivery
woman I saw once
1303
01:11:23,933 --> 01:11:26,800
with my dad in a luncheonette,
how bizarre
1304
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,700
to see that very private
and what I always
1305
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:33,166
thought was a super
idiosyncratic memory,
1306
01:11:33,166 --> 01:11:37,933
to see it turned into this
scene in a Broadway musical.
1307
01:11:37,933 --> 01:11:40,666
I mean, I can't even believe
I'm saying those words.
1308
01:11:40,666 --> 01:11:45,400
- ♪ Wearing your short hair
and your dungarees ♪
1309
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:50,366
♪ And your lace-up boots
and your keys ♪
1310
01:11:50,366 --> 01:11:56,533
♪ Oh your ring of keys ♪
1311
01:11:57,833 --> 01:11:59,800
♪ I know you ♪
1312
01:12:00,966 --> 01:12:03,900
- It was revolutionary that
the play allowed this child
1313
01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:07,733
to have this moment
of recognition
1314
01:12:07,733 --> 01:12:10,633
that she's a lesbian
and also of desire, you know?
1315
01:12:10,633 --> 01:12:12,933
♪ ♪
1316
01:12:12,933 --> 01:12:16,066
- Me and Scott saw it
with Alison.
1317
01:12:16,066 --> 01:12:19,300
Then it was nominated
for Tony Awards.
1318
01:12:19,300 --> 01:12:21,433
And then she wins.
1319
01:12:21,433 --> 01:12:23,066
♪ ♪
1320
01:12:23,066 --> 01:12:24,466
- It was crazy.
1321
01:12:24,466 --> 01:12:25,800
It changed everything.
1322
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:28,600
And it meant I got
to keep being a cartoonist.
1323
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,300
♪ ♪
1324
01:12:30,300 --> 01:12:34,000
I'm not even sure whose
life I'm leading anymore.
1325
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:40,700
♪ ♪
1326
01:12:40,700 --> 01:12:46,933
- I had met Alison a number
of years before my accident.
1327
01:12:46,933 --> 01:12:50,033
Once the surgery was done,
I was in a back brace.
1328
01:12:50,033 --> 01:12:53,633
I was longing to get
back to Portland.
1329
01:12:55,066 --> 01:12:57,700
Maybe a day or two
after I'd gone to work,
1330
01:12:57,700 --> 01:12:59,700
I got a package in the mail.
1331
01:12:59,700 --> 01:13:01,733
And I opened up the box,
and there
1332
01:13:01,733 --> 01:13:04,566
was a little card saying,
"I heard about your accident.
1333
01:13:04,566 --> 01:13:07,266
"And I wanted to send
you a get well card.
1334
01:13:07,266 --> 01:13:09,600
"But then I knew other
people might want to be
1335
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,533
"involved in it.
1336
01:13:11,533 --> 01:13:13,100
Love, Alison."
1337
01:13:13,100 --> 01:13:15,066
I thought,
this is from Alison Bechdel.
1338
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:21,933
I remember opening the box
and seeing the very first panel
1339
01:13:21,933 --> 01:13:24,466
and then pulling it
and just watching
1340
01:13:24,466 --> 01:13:29,166
the whole stream just unfurl.
1341
01:13:29,166 --> 01:13:31,600
And it just really,
really touched my heart.
1342
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,900
Because I kept
recognizing the style
1343
01:13:34,900 --> 01:13:39,466
of cartoonists that I really
appreciated and admired
1344
01:13:39,466 --> 01:13:43,666
and remember coming across
the original drawing by Alison,
1345
01:13:43,666 --> 01:13:45,800
and actually,
one of my favorite characters
1346
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,166
of hers, of course.
1347
01:13:48,166 --> 01:13:51,266
I love the whimsy
of the Trina Robbins
1348
01:13:51,266 --> 01:13:55,200
panel and Jennifer Camper.
1349
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:59,166
I love the contrast of hers,
how dark they were.
1350
01:14:02,466 --> 01:14:04,033
- You're going to have to
figure out the magic of it all.
1351
01:14:04,033 --> 01:14:05,566
Here we go.
Do you like that height?
1352
01:14:05,566 --> 01:14:08,133
Is that horrible?
1353
01:14:08,133 --> 01:14:10,566
A lesser man would
need a hammer.
1354
01:14:10,566 --> 01:14:13,033
- I fancied myself as someone
1355
01:14:13,033 --> 01:14:16,600
who really appreciated
the communities
1356
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,033
that I was a part of.
1357
01:14:18,033 --> 01:14:21,366
This was the first time
I so immediately
1358
01:14:21,366 --> 01:14:25,266
felt embraced by
the cartoonist community.
1359
01:14:27,166 --> 01:14:30,200
There's just something
about being
1360
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:36,100
in that community
where you genuinely don't
1361
01:14:36,100 --> 01:14:38,433
feel like there's competition.
1362
01:14:38,433 --> 01:14:42,800
All of the ways that
we represent the community
1363
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:47,966
and all of the ways
our work--it's personal.
1364
01:14:47,966 --> 01:14:49,966
It's yet one more
thing that I never
1365
01:14:49,966 --> 01:14:52,233
want to take for granted.
1366
01:14:52,233 --> 01:14:56,433
♪ ♪
1367
01:14:56,433 --> 01:14:58,533
- We're no longer
token sidekicks.
1368
01:14:58,533 --> 01:15:00,233
Were no longer sad stories.
1369
01:15:00,233 --> 01:15:02,633
♪ ♪
1370
01:15:02,633 --> 01:15:05,833
- I got my mainstream work
because of the queer comics.
1371
01:15:05,833 --> 01:15:09,200
I'm very proud to have my queer
roots and my mainstream roots.
1372
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,433
But now,
I can mix them together.
1373
01:15:11,433 --> 01:15:14,166
- A lot of the people
coming to buy comics
1374
01:15:14,166 --> 01:15:15,766
are actually parents.
1375
01:15:15,766 --> 01:15:18,900
And they're looking for
material for their trans kid
1376
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:20,133
who just came out.
1377
01:15:20,133 --> 01:15:21,800
That's something that
I definitely did not see
1378
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:23,166
when I started making comics.
1379
01:15:23,166 --> 01:15:26,166
[delicate piano music]
1380
01:15:26,166 --> 01:15:31,066
♪ ♪
1381
01:15:31,066 --> 01:15:34,100
[razor buzzing]
1382
01:15:37,300 --> 01:15:38,566
- Queer comics
have really created
1383
01:15:38,566 --> 01:15:41,066
a space for complexity
that didn't exist
1384
01:15:41,066 --> 01:15:43,700
in a lot of other comics.
1385
01:15:43,700 --> 01:15:45,833
The space for
different ways of being
1386
01:15:45,833 --> 01:15:48,400
a person of color, different
ways of being gendered.
1387
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,466
It was really amazing.
1388
01:15:50,466 --> 01:15:52,800
It was like nothing
I'd ever seen before.
1389
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:59,833
♪ ♪
1390
01:17:00,633 --> 01:17:02,300
- Up next
on "Independent Lens,"
1391
01:17:02,300 --> 01:17:06,033
a community of LGBTQ
retirees celebrate life,
1392
01:17:06,033 --> 01:17:08,300
love, and legacies
of resistance
1393
01:17:08,300 --> 01:17:10,300
in the short film,
"Senior Prom."
1394
01:17:11,733 --> 01:17:14,733
[spacey music]
1395
01:17:14,733 --> 01:17:16,700
♪ ♪
1396
01:17:18,633 --> 01:17:21,933
- I did not, because
I've been gay from day one.
1397
01:17:21,933 --> 01:17:24,466
- Yes, I did.
- I didn't. I was too gay.
1398
01:17:24,466 --> 01:17:26,033
- And I was still
doing straight.
1399
01:17:26,033 --> 01:17:27,500
[laughter]
1400
01:17:27,500 --> 01:17:30,500
- Yeah, I double-dated with
my best friend at the time,
1401
01:17:30,500 --> 01:17:34,366
Gary, and I would have
rather gone with Gary.
1402
01:17:34,366 --> 01:17:36,766
- Anne has made
a difficult decision
1403
01:17:36,766 --> 01:17:40,766
to go to her senior prom,
a big night for most kids,
1404
01:17:40,766 --> 01:17:43,466
but a night
most gay teens avoid.
1405
01:17:43,466 --> 01:17:45,500
- The junior prom,
semi-formal,
1406
01:17:45,500 --> 01:17:47,533
is the best dance of the year.
1407
01:17:47,533 --> 01:17:51,166
The rules are simple,
and they are very important.
1408
01:17:51,166 --> 01:17:54,500
- Wouldn't you rather go to
the prom with your girlfriend?
1409
01:17:54,500 --> 01:17:56,566
- Oh, yeah.
1410
01:17:56,566 --> 01:17:58,266
But it wouldn't be allowed.
1411
01:17:58,266 --> 01:18:05,066
♪ ♪
1412
01:18:05,066 --> 01:18:07,066
- Oh!
1413
01:18:07,066 --> 01:18:08,600
66.
1414
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:09,666
- Bingo.
- Bingo.
1415
01:18:09,666 --> 01:18:10,666
- Andi.
1416
01:18:10,666 --> 01:18:12,966
Okay, let's go check out Andi.
1417
01:18:12,966 --> 01:18:14,433
Andi, are you a top
or a bottom?
1418
01:18:14,433 --> 01:18:15,600
- I have it on top.
1419
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,000
- You're a top, okay.
1420
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,366
- My name is Andi Segal.
1421
01:18:20,366 --> 01:18:24,000
And I'm 71 years old.
1422
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:29,866
I became gay when I was--
gay, lesbian when I was 17.
1423
01:18:29,866 --> 01:18:33,500
I live in Hollywood
in a gay and lesbian village.
1424
01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:35,100
Every year we have the prom.
1425
01:18:35,100 --> 01:18:36,666
You dress up.
1426
01:18:36,666 --> 01:18:37,933
You look your best.
1427
01:18:37,933 --> 01:18:40,500
Who can ask for more?
1428
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:45,866
Many of us that are lesbian
and gay or transgender,
1429
01:18:45,866 --> 01:18:47,566
they couldn't go
to their prom,
1430
01:18:47,566 --> 01:18:52,166
because people are very cruel
in the straight world.
1431
01:18:52,166 --> 01:18:54,700
- My name is Nancy Valverdi,
1432
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:57,200
born in March 1932.
1433
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:01,466
I didn't go to anybody's prom
because of my attire.
1434
01:19:01,466 --> 01:19:04,066
And I wasn't gonna put on
a dress to please anybody.
1435
01:19:04,066 --> 01:19:05,700
♪ ♪
1436
01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:07,766
- Did you go
to your high school prom?
1437
01:19:07,766 --> 01:19:12,566
- I went, but I wasn't
very happy about it.
1438
01:19:12,566 --> 01:19:15,266
This was a heterosexual world.
1439
01:19:15,266 --> 01:19:19,433
This is a world where
we can be ourselves.
1440
01:19:19,433 --> 01:19:20,800
- Welcome to prom.
1441
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,800
[Earth, Wind & Fire's
"Boogie Wonderland"]
1442
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,800
♪ ♪
1443
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:29,933
- ♪ Dance ♪
1444
01:19:29,933 --> 01:19:31,900
- I love to dance,
and she loves to dance.
1445
01:19:31,900 --> 01:19:33,166
- Yes.
1446
01:19:33,166 --> 01:19:34,266
- Oh.
1447
01:19:34,266 --> 01:19:36,000
- Oh, you got lipstick
on your lip.
1448
01:19:37,900 --> 01:19:39,266
- It's good exercise.
1449
01:19:39,266 --> 01:19:42,133
It's a sexual release as well.
1450
01:19:42,133 --> 01:19:43,600
- Oh, my.
1451
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,300
Oh, my.
- Yes.
1452
01:19:45,300 --> 01:19:47,966
♪ ♪
1453
01:19:47,966 --> 01:19:51,066
- At 88 years old,
I like to sit around
1454
01:19:51,066 --> 01:19:54,800
and see other people dance
and see the action.
1455
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:58,100
By the law of average,
I should not be here today.
1456
01:19:58,100 --> 01:20:00,666
I grew up in east Los Angeles.
1457
01:20:00,666 --> 01:20:04,166
I was the only Latin lesbian
out there.
1458
01:20:04,166 --> 01:20:07,466
My friends, you couldn't tell
they were lesbians,
1459
01:20:07,466 --> 01:20:11,000
because they didn't dress
like me.
1460
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,900
I just like to wear
my male attire.
1461
01:20:16,966 --> 01:20:21,866
I was about 17
first time they arrested me.
1462
01:20:21,866 --> 01:20:24,500
It was illegal
to wear men's clothing.
1463
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:26,333
I went to jail for that.
1464
01:20:26,333 --> 01:20:30,100
It was worth every bit
of everything I went through.
1465
01:20:30,100 --> 01:20:33,133
Because now you can wear
anything you want.
1466
01:20:33,133 --> 01:20:35,866
- ♪ Oh-oh-ahh-ahh ♪
1467
01:20:35,866 --> 01:20:36,866
♪ Dance ♪
1468
01:20:36,866 --> 01:20:38,266
♪ ♪
1469
01:20:38,266 --> 01:20:41,333
♪ Boogie wonderland ♪
1470
01:20:41,333 --> 01:20:43,300
♪ ♪
1471
01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:45,133
♪ Dance ♪
1472
01:20:45,133 --> 01:20:48,100
- I remember the first dance
I ever had with a girl.
1473
01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:54,133
She leaped on me,
and she stuck her tongue
1474
01:20:54,133 --> 01:20:57,333
in my mouth, okay?
1475
01:20:57,333 --> 01:20:59,633
And I liked it.
1476
01:20:59,633 --> 01:21:01,833
I liked it.
1477
01:21:01,833 --> 01:21:04,500
I didn't go to straight places
after that.
1478
01:21:04,500 --> 01:21:08,100
But it was very,
very hard for us to dance
1479
01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:09,400
out in the open.
1480
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,666
- Gay people want
to be themselves, flirt,
1481
01:21:12,666 --> 01:21:16,800
hold hands, kiss,
just as heterosexuals do.
1482
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,766
- Well, we weren't wanted
in the world.
1483
01:21:18,766 --> 01:21:19,766
We were scorned.
1484
01:21:19,766 --> 01:21:21,300
We were outsiders.
1485
01:21:21,300 --> 01:21:22,833
We were outcasts.
1486
01:21:22,833 --> 01:21:25,066
I realized I was gay,
1487
01:21:25,066 --> 01:21:29,300
but I'd already decided
I wanted to be a priest.
1488
01:21:29,300 --> 01:21:34,066
I felt that I had
to hide myself.
1489
01:21:34,066 --> 01:21:38,366
I was in the closet
until I broke free.
1490
01:21:38,366 --> 01:21:42,866
And when you break that free
there's no going back.
1491
01:21:42,866 --> 01:21:49,500
I came out as a gay man
who was going to be a priest.
1492
01:21:49,500 --> 01:21:51,966
- We preach in our church that
the people should be proud
1493
01:21:51,966 --> 01:21:53,666
of themselves,
proud of being gay,
1494
01:21:53,666 --> 01:21:56,300
and all parts of their life,
and being gay is good,
1495
01:21:56,300 --> 01:21:57,400
so one should be proud of it.
1496
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,500
[crowd chanting indistinctly]
1497
01:22:04,133 --> 01:22:08,933
- Everyone should know
that they are worthy of love,
1498
01:22:08,933 --> 01:22:12,966
that they have worth
in just being a human being.
1499
01:22:12,966 --> 01:22:14,733
[gentle music]
1500
01:22:14,733 --> 01:22:18,433
- Raise your hand
if you believe in love.
1501
01:22:18,433 --> 01:22:20,800
Do you believe in love?
1502
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,433
Well, come on, seniors.
1503
01:22:23,433 --> 01:22:26,100
I have something
to say about it.
1504
01:22:26,100 --> 01:22:28,000
♪ ♪
1505
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:32,366
- I didn't feel
that I deserved to be loved.
1506
01:22:32,366 --> 01:22:37,100
When my mom discovered
that I was lesbian,
1507
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:40,566
she would say, "You're gonna
grow up to be a nothing."
1508
01:22:40,566 --> 01:22:44,033
When I started going
to the lesbian bars,
1509
01:22:44,033 --> 01:22:46,800
that's where I found myself.
1510
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,100
I was just dating, you know,
different women,
1511
01:22:49,100 --> 01:22:50,633
and then I met Skid.
1512
01:22:50,633 --> 01:22:53,266
♪ ♪
1513
01:22:53,266 --> 01:22:55,533
My life began with her.
1514
01:22:55,533 --> 01:22:58,533
♪ ♪
1515
01:22:58,533 --> 01:23:03,000
I never had anybody love me
the way she did.
1516
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:05,900
And I loved her
because of it.
1517
01:23:05,900 --> 01:23:10,766
♪ ♪
1518
01:23:10,766 --> 01:23:13,333
She died in 2005,
1519
01:23:13,333 --> 01:23:16,666
February 2nd.
1520
01:23:16,666 --> 01:23:20,600
When she passed away,
she's gone.
1521
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:23,533
She's not in my bed
holding me
1522
01:23:23,533 --> 01:23:27,366
and telling me
that she loves me.
1523
01:23:27,366 --> 01:23:30,333
I know that I'm blessed
to have her for 36 years.
1524
01:23:30,333 --> 01:23:33,833
You know what? I--all those
years that I had her.
1525
01:23:33,833 --> 01:23:36,866
♪ ♪
1526
01:23:36,866 --> 01:23:39,533
It was time for me
to move on.
1527
01:23:39,533 --> 01:23:42,500
I went to grief group
at the village,
1528
01:23:42,500 --> 01:23:44,400
and Nancy was there.
1529
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:47,233
I looked at her,
and I thought,
1530
01:23:47,233 --> 01:23:50,300
"My God, she's gorgeous."
1531
01:23:50,300 --> 01:23:54,133
♪ ♪
1532
01:23:54,133 --> 01:23:57,333
They need to know,
the young ones,
1533
01:23:57,333 --> 01:23:59,633
that you can have
lasting relationships
1534
01:23:59,633 --> 01:24:01,800
until the end,
1535
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,200
that you can make it last.
1536
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:06,800
♪ ♪
1537
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:10,433
- Now we're at the big moment
of the evening
1538
01:24:10,433 --> 01:24:13,233
where we're gonna crown
a king and queen
1539
01:24:13,233 --> 01:24:14,733
of the senior prom.
1540
01:24:14,733 --> 01:24:16,266
[cheers and applause]
1541
01:24:16,266 --> 01:24:19,000
We're first gonna do
the oldest.
1542
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:22,200
Who here is between the ages
of 80 and 85?
1543
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:23,866
Raise your hand.
1544
01:24:23,866 --> 01:24:27,366
- I look in the mirror,
and I see this older man.
1545
01:24:27,366 --> 01:24:32,933
Try and remember
when you were 21, 22, 23.
1546
01:24:32,933 --> 01:24:37,366
That's the person
that's inside my skull.
1547
01:24:39,733 --> 01:24:42,600
- Gertie and Robert
are our new king and queen.
1548
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:43,633
Come on up.
1549
01:24:43,633 --> 01:24:45,200
[cheers and applause]
1550
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,766
- We've come quite
a nice distance.
1551
01:24:48,766 --> 01:24:51,733
But there's still more to go.
1552
01:24:51,733 --> 01:24:54,366
[cheers and applause]
1553
01:24:54,366 --> 01:24:56,133
We're here, we're queer,
1554
01:24:56,133 --> 01:24:58,100
and we're not going
to curl up and die.
1555
01:24:58,100 --> 01:25:01,166
["Dancing Queen" playing]
1556
01:25:01,166 --> 01:25:03,000
♪ ♪
1557
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,333
- Are you all having fun
tonight?
1558
01:25:05,333 --> 01:25:06,333
[cheers]
1559
01:25:06,333 --> 01:25:08,833
- Good night, everybody.
1560
01:25:13,066 --> 01:25:15,466
- Like a queen.
1561
01:25:15,466 --> 01:25:17,300
- Thank you. Good night.
1562
01:25:17,300 --> 01:25:20,066
I look forward to seeing
the whole bunch of you
1563
01:25:20,066 --> 01:25:22,800
at the next big affair.
1564
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,633
Ciao, bambinos.
1565
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:36,966
♪♪
115682
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.