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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:19,987 --> 00:00:22,255 - It's a perfect night for mystery and horror. 2 00:00:22,256 --> 00:00:26,059 The air itself is filled with monsters. 3 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:27,694 - I'm all ears. 4 00:00:27,695 --> 00:00:29,663 Open up your pits of hell. 5 00:00:37,538 --> 00:00:42,110 - As queer people, we are considered outside of society 6 00:00:43,311 --> 00:00:47,380 and I think horror is outside of society. 7 00:00:55,389 --> 00:00:58,057 - Horror stories upset all the right people. 8 00:00:58,058 --> 00:01:01,594 People who can't handle ambiguity, 9 00:01:01,595 --> 00:01:06,166 people who can't handle violence or eroticism, 10 00:01:06,167 --> 00:01:10,271 people who think of the world in these very clear-cut terms. 11 00:01:14,108 --> 00:01:15,575 - Most Americans are repelled 12 00:01:15,576 --> 00:01:17,944 by the mere notion of homosexuality. 13 00:01:17,945 --> 00:01:20,980 The CBS News survey shows that two out of three Americans 14 00:01:20,981 --> 00:01:24,517 look upon homosexuals with disgust, discomfort, or fear. 15 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:27,754 - What was that? 16 00:01:27,755 --> 00:01:29,789 - The main thing about horror was 17 00:01:29,790 --> 00:01:32,225 that it was exciting to get scared 18 00:01:32,226 --> 00:01:34,161 and that there was an honesty to it, 19 00:01:34,162 --> 00:01:36,796 because I was responding to how my body felt. 20 00:01:36,797 --> 00:01:38,598 So, kind of like porn. 21 00:01:40,134 --> 00:01:41,634 - Your blood starts pumping. 22 00:01:41,635 --> 00:01:44,705 There is something very, very primal about being afraid. 23 00:01:46,140 --> 00:01:48,641 - Horror designed to make you incredibly uncomfortable. 24 00:01:50,178 --> 00:01:51,711 And I think that queer people 25 00:01:51,712 --> 00:01:53,079 are just generally better at being uncomfortable. 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,815 - Now kindly undo these straps. 27 00:01:56,184 --> 00:01:59,452 - Because queer has been seen as bad, 28 00:01:59,453 --> 00:02:00,653 has been seen as the other, 29 00:02:00,654 --> 00:02:02,689 of course we're gonna put anything bad 30 00:02:02,690 --> 00:02:04,591 and anything the other as the monster. 31 00:02:04,592 --> 00:02:06,426 - I know who I am now, Sam. 32 00:02:07,661 --> 00:02:09,061 - You wait till mom finds out, buddy. 33 00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:10,697 - I always thought of myself as a monster 34 00:02:10,698 --> 00:02:12,499 or a freak or a weirdo. 35 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:15,835 - My, I'll bet you monsters lead interesting lives. 36 00:02:15,836 --> 00:02:20,273 - I'm Frankenstein, I'm Dracula, I'm Mrs. Danvers. 37 00:02:21,909 --> 00:02:23,109 - So many of us can relate 38 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:24,577 to being the the monster in the room. 39 00:02:24,578 --> 00:02:28,381 - I want to walk amongst the commoners unnoticed. 40 00:02:28,382 --> 00:02:30,417 A prince amongst paupers. 41 00:02:30,418 --> 00:02:32,919 - The reason queer people have latched onto these monsters 42 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:36,656 is because we see in them that society 43 00:02:36,657 --> 00:02:38,891 is always trying to eradicate us. 44 00:02:42,496 --> 00:02:44,631 And we're always waiting to fight back. 45 00:02:46,534 --> 00:02:48,235 - That's how we're represented in film. 46 00:02:49,703 --> 00:02:50,970 We're the bogeyman. 47 00:02:50,971 --> 00:02:52,138 We're the ones who are out to get you. 48 00:02:54,041 --> 00:02:57,544 - A flood tide of filth is engulfing our country 49 00:02:57,545 --> 00:02:59,346 and is threatening to pervert 50 00:02:59,347 --> 00:03:02,114 an entire generation of our American children. 51 00:03:06,254 --> 00:03:08,154 - You sit the fuck down! 52 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:13,560 - They constantly portray abnormal sexual behavior. 53 00:03:13,561 --> 00:03:16,296 They glorify unnatural sex acts. 54 00:03:16,297 --> 00:03:17,130 - Show me. 55 00:03:18,165 --> 00:03:20,467 - With so many queer creators, 56 00:03:20,468 --> 00:03:23,836 we see this affinity with the shadowy margins 57 00:03:23,837 --> 00:03:26,006 of what's considered respectable society. 58 00:03:26,974 --> 00:03:28,508 - Are you a member? 59 00:03:28,509 --> 00:03:30,943 - I'm looking for somebody. 60 00:03:30,944 --> 00:03:32,144 - Aren't we all? 61 00:03:32,145 --> 00:03:35,047 - The moment there's some kind of queer lens 62 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:37,049 being used to create, 63 00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:39,552 it immediately reflects and reverberates 64 00:03:39,553 --> 00:03:41,521 throughout the piece. 65 00:03:41,522 --> 00:03:43,490 - The evolution of queer horror 66 00:03:43,491 --> 00:03:46,993 really parallels the evolution of queer liberation. 67 00:03:46,994 --> 00:03:49,729 - They're waiting for you. 68 00:03:50,665 --> 00:03:52,799 - You begin with queer artists 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,034 taking the spaces we're allowed to have 70 00:03:55,035 --> 00:03:58,805 and slipping what we can say into those spaces. 71 00:03:58,806 --> 00:04:01,107 ♪ I'm afraid there's no denyin' ♪ 72 00:04:01,108 --> 00:04:03,042 ♪ I'm just a dandy-lion ♪ 73 00:04:03,043 --> 00:04:06,346 - There's something affirming about that vision in horror, 74 00:04:06,347 --> 00:04:07,780 because at least we know we exist, 75 00:04:07,781 --> 00:04:09,316 at least we know we are out there, 76 00:04:09,317 --> 00:04:10,617 even if we're only there 77 00:04:10,618 --> 00:04:13,854 to put the fear of God into straight people. 78 00:04:17,791 --> 00:04:20,393 - Through this material, today's youth can be enticed 79 00:04:20,394 --> 00:04:23,830 to enter the world of homosexuals, lesbians, 80 00:04:23,831 --> 00:04:26,299 and other sex deviants. 81 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:28,601 We know that once a person is perverted, 82 00:04:28,602 --> 00:04:31,571 it is practically impossible for that person 83 00:04:31,572 --> 00:04:35,074 to adjust to normal attitudes in regard to sex. 84 00:05:13,981 --> 00:05:16,483 - We queers have been a part of the genre of horror 85 00:05:16,484 --> 00:05:17,717 since the beginning, right? 86 00:05:17,718 --> 00:05:18,718 Since the beginning. 87 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:44,577 - The horror genre as we know it 88 00:05:44,578 --> 00:05:47,179 really dates back to folkloric traditions 89 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:49,549 and then the gothic tradition in literature 90 00:05:49,550 --> 00:05:51,552 in the 17th and 18th century. 91 00:05:52,986 --> 00:05:54,887 When you wanted to write about queers, 92 00:05:54,888 --> 00:05:57,591 you had to find a sort of coded way to do it. 93 00:06:00,127 --> 00:06:02,463 - We queers have always had our own language. 94 00:06:04,465 --> 00:06:05,965 - If you know, you know, 95 00:06:05,966 --> 00:06:07,968 but otherwise it just kind of goes over your head. 96 00:06:09,202 --> 00:06:11,571 And if somebody sees it, it's on them. 97 00:06:11,572 --> 00:06:13,773 It's not quite on you. 98 00:06:15,743 --> 00:06:18,778 - The gothic is literally about sublimated, 99 00:06:18,779 --> 00:06:20,448 hidden things coming to light. 100 00:06:22,382 --> 00:06:25,418 The dead, or the past, or desires, 101 00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:27,254 or things that have been pushed down. 102 00:06:28,422 --> 00:06:29,722 The whole point is you can't suppress the dead, 103 00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:31,023 you can't suppress the past. 104 00:06:31,024 --> 00:06:33,794 It's always gonna come up and erupt 105 00:06:35,162 --> 00:06:37,964 in some really interesting and terrifying way. 106 00:06:42,202 --> 00:06:45,237 - One of the defining characteristics of those gothic novels 107 00:06:45,238 --> 00:06:49,208 is that they are all about transgression. 108 00:06:49,209 --> 00:06:52,512 Resurrecting the dead, drinking blood, 109 00:06:52,513 --> 00:06:55,314 making Faustian deals with the devil. 110 00:06:55,315 --> 00:07:00,287 And tied to that is, of course, sexual transgression. 111 00:07:02,556 --> 00:07:05,057 - We've now reached a sort of stage 112 00:07:05,058 --> 00:07:07,860 with a very, very long history of the gothic 113 00:07:07,861 --> 00:07:09,896 in literature and in film, 114 00:07:09,897 --> 00:07:12,632 where we can actually start to look back at things and say, 115 00:07:12,633 --> 00:07:14,634 "You know, that's not quite 116 00:07:14,635 --> 00:07:16,402 what it appeared to be at the time." 117 00:07:19,473 --> 00:07:21,741 - The general names from the 19th century 118 00:07:21,742 --> 00:07:23,943 that we associate with horror 119 00:07:23,944 --> 00:07:27,580 are really Bram Stoker, Robert Louis Stevenson, 120 00:07:27,581 --> 00:07:29,982 but before that is Mary Shelley. 121 00:07:29,983 --> 00:07:32,218 She is an angel. 122 00:07:32,219 --> 00:07:33,720 - You think so? 123 00:07:33,721 --> 00:07:37,423 - It is no surprise that a woman created the horror genre. 124 00:07:38,692 --> 00:07:39,726 We're suppressed in more ways than one, 125 00:07:39,727 --> 00:07:42,061 especially a queer woman. 126 00:07:43,196 --> 00:07:46,398 She had all the ammunition in the world 127 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:49,837 to create monsters, and she did. 128 00:07:57,077 --> 00:07:59,145 - Mary, what an icon. 129 00:07:59,146 --> 00:08:01,247 I'm just gonna invent science fiction in an afternoon. 130 00:08:01,248 --> 00:08:02,414 Do you guys want anything? 131 00:08:02,415 --> 00:08:03,851 Like, "Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Mary." 132 00:08:05,418 --> 00:08:10,423 - Mary Shelly is not only the mother of the horror genre 133 00:08:11,291 --> 00:08:12,525 and the science fiction genre. 134 00:08:12,526 --> 00:08:16,362 She is a leading feminist idealist 135 00:08:16,363 --> 00:08:20,366 and also the goth-est of the goth girls. 136 00:08:20,367 --> 00:08:21,968 - Mary Shelley is so goth. 137 00:08:21,969 --> 00:08:25,238 She lost her virginity on her mother's gravestone. 138 00:08:26,239 --> 00:08:27,274 - Here I come! 139 00:08:28,976 --> 00:08:31,143 - We all know this image of Mary Shelley, 140 00:08:31,144 --> 00:08:32,211 hanging out in the graveyards, 141 00:08:32,212 --> 00:08:34,547 and there's a much more romantic 142 00:08:34,548 --> 00:08:36,082 and heartfelt way to look at it. 143 00:08:36,083 --> 00:08:38,718 Her mother, Mary Goodwin, was a prolific writer 144 00:08:38,719 --> 00:08:40,620 before feminism was even a word, 145 00:08:40,621 --> 00:08:43,055 was very much so of the feminist spirit. 146 00:08:43,056 --> 00:08:45,892 She died within weeks of Mary being born. 147 00:08:45,893 --> 00:08:47,960 The only way for Mary Shelly 148 00:08:47,961 --> 00:08:50,529 to have a connection with her mother 149 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:53,465 was to be in the space that her mother left her 150 00:08:53,466 --> 00:08:54,967 and to read her literature 151 00:08:54,968 --> 00:08:57,770 and sort of piece together a relationship 152 00:08:57,771 --> 00:08:59,639 with this woman she never got to meet. 153 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,709 - Mary Shelly was pretty radical. 154 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:05,144 She was very sexually liberal, 155 00:09:05,145 --> 00:09:08,347 experimenting, very open-minded. 156 00:09:08,348 --> 00:09:09,916 And what was also great 157 00:09:09,917 --> 00:09:11,618 was just her equality with the men 158 00:09:11,619 --> 00:09:13,485 that she was spending time with. 159 00:09:13,486 --> 00:09:16,656 - Mary Shelley was married to Percy Bysshe Shelley. 160 00:09:16,657 --> 00:09:19,258 They were also part of a who knows exactly 161 00:09:19,259 --> 00:09:21,260 relationship with Lord Byron. 162 00:09:21,261 --> 00:09:23,663 The trio was allegedly booted out of England 163 00:09:23,664 --> 00:09:26,733 because of their notorious behavior. 164 00:09:26,734 --> 00:09:28,935 - She was one of the original hags, right? 165 00:09:28,936 --> 00:09:31,070 I mean, she could hang out, you know? 166 00:09:31,071 --> 00:09:35,074 She was there for her gays, and they were there for her. 167 00:09:35,075 --> 00:09:37,844 Hanging out with these sexually fluid men 168 00:09:37,845 --> 00:09:40,112 and also having her own secrets 169 00:09:40,113 --> 00:09:42,448 really speaks to her being a pioneer 170 00:09:42,449 --> 00:09:46,786 in the art of monsters and of horror and storytelling 171 00:09:46,787 --> 00:09:49,522 at that time when those stories were so new. 172 00:09:51,391 --> 00:09:53,125 - She's so goth. 173 00:09:53,126 --> 00:09:56,195 - They ended up in Europe at Villa Diodati 174 00:09:56,196 --> 00:09:58,264 where they all decided to write ghost stories 175 00:09:58,265 --> 00:10:00,733 fueled by drugs and sex and alcohol. 176 00:10:00,734 --> 00:10:04,203 - She's really turning it for the goths, honey. 177 00:10:04,204 --> 00:10:08,407 - She's 18, she's hanging out with her husband and his bros. 178 00:10:08,408 --> 00:10:09,342 I shouldn't call them bros. 179 00:10:09,343 --> 00:10:10,542 They were all having sex. 180 00:10:10,543 --> 00:10:12,745 - It is an age of dreams and nightmares. 181 00:10:12,746 --> 00:10:15,181 - Yes, and we are merely the children of the age. 182 00:10:15,182 --> 00:10:18,350 - And she has a nightmare about this shambling behemoth. 183 00:10:23,590 --> 00:10:26,458 She writes it down, and she kind of invents science fiction 184 00:10:26,459 --> 00:10:27,493 and horror in the same moment. 185 00:10:30,263 --> 00:10:31,764 - As the story goes, 186 00:10:31,765 --> 00:10:34,867 Mary Shelley came up with the concept of Frankenstein 187 00:10:34,868 --> 00:10:36,102 when she was debating, 188 00:10:36,103 --> 00:10:38,470 what's the scariest story you can think of? 189 00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:41,007 Kind of fitting that a female author 190 00:10:41,008 --> 00:10:43,910 would think the scariest thing I can think of 191 00:10:43,911 --> 00:10:46,714 is a man trying to create life. 192 00:10:47,848 --> 00:10:50,149 - It's such a commentary on a man's world, 193 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:52,719 and it's such a commentary on the audacity of men 194 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,453 to think that they could even create 195 00:10:54,454 --> 00:10:57,323 a functioning creature without a woman. 196 00:11:00,427 --> 00:11:02,194 Like, the balls it must have took for her 197 00:11:02,195 --> 00:11:04,030 to put those words on that page. 198 00:11:04,031 --> 00:11:05,898 - She's writing in an era where there aren't a lot 199 00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:07,900 of female authors to begin with. 200 00:11:07,901 --> 00:11:09,769 It's certainly not a respectable thing 201 00:11:09,770 --> 00:11:10,970 for her to be doing. 202 00:11:10,971 --> 00:11:12,905 Just by virtue of her writing this book, 203 00:11:12,906 --> 00:11:15,307 this is like this radical statement that, 204 00:11:15,308 --> 00:11:20,313 I, a bisexual woman, am capable of these manly pursuits. 205 00:11:21,681 --> 00:11:23,349 - The Frankenstein monster is literally made up 206 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:26,919 of bits and pieces of other people and other psyches, 207 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,856 is this extraordinary outsider. 208 00:11:29,857 --> 00:11:33,392 - This idea that you can recombine the elements 209 00:11:33,393 --> 00:11:38,130 of a human to create something is inherently terrifying. 210 00:11:38,131 --> 00:11:41,600 But I think that that's sort of what it means to be queer 211 00:11:41,601 --> 00:11:43,502 is you're sort of taking all these elements 212 00:11:43,503 --> 00:11:47,073 of masculinity or femininity and you're redesigning them 213 00:11:47,074 --> 00:11:48,742 into the person that you are. 214 00:11:50,778 --> 00:11:52,578 - The monster chooses to attack 215 00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:54,580 and kill Victor Frankenstein's wife 216 00:11:54,581 --> 00:11:57,583 on their wedding night so that they never consummate. 217 00:11:57,584 --> 00:11:58,985 And from that point on, 218 00:11:58,986 --> 00:12:03,891 Victor Frankenstein is obsessed with his male creation 219 00:12:05,292 --> 00:12:06,725 and is chasing the male creation all over the world. 220 00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:09,428 And if that's not a queer narrative, I don't know what is. 221 00:12:09,429 --> 00:12:11,798 - The literature shows Frankenstein 222 00:12:11,799 --> 00:12:16,804 as so much more articulate and smart and charismatic 223 00:12:18,138 --> 00:12:22,008 instead of this mumbling, horrible creature. 224 00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:26,745 - The monster and Frankenstein are kind of constantly 225 00:12:26,746 --> 00:12:29,148 ever changing, two beings within the same 226 00:12:29,149 --> 00:12:30,616 that are overlapping. 227 00:12:30,617 --> 00:12:33,185 Frankenstein catches up with the doctor and explains, 228 00:12:33,186 --> 00:12:34,954 oh yeah, I learned language. 229 00:12:34,955 --> 00:12:36,488 You know what I mean? 230 00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:39,091 Like, here I am, I'm you, which is a monster, 231 00:12:39,092 --> 00:12:41,829 but I'm gonna reflect back to you what you are. 232 00:12:45,465 --> 00:12:48,134 - There is something very, very dream girls about it, 233 00:12:48,135 --> 00:12:50,903 of showing up at somebody's doorstep and being like. 234 00:12:50,904 --> 00:12:54,274 - ♪ And I am telling you ♪ 235 00:12:55,742 --> 00:12:57,209 - I am telling you I am not going. 236 00:12:57,210 --> 00:12:59,745 - ♪ I'm not going ♪ 237 00:12:59,746 --> 00:13:01,747 - You are going to love me and if you're not gonna love me, 238 00:13:01,748 --> 00:13:03,582 you are going to admit that you don't love me 239 00:13:03,583 --> 00:13:05,084 and you are gonna tell me why, 240 00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:08,087 and you will not be able to hide from that. 241 00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:14,660 - My favorite part of Frankenstein 242 00:13:14,661 --> 00:13:16,863 is that Mary Shelly was queer, 243 00:13:16,864 --> 00:13:20,332 because as many historians love to argue against, 244 00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:25,338 we have written texts from Mary Shelly to her friend saying 245 00:13:26,739 --> 00:13:28,941 that she likes to get tousey-mousey with women. 246 00:13:31,011 --> 00:13:35,247 - "April 8th, 1825. 247 00:13:35,248 --> 00:13:36,949 When I return to Italy, 248 00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:40,052 I shall not come without my Jane, 249 00:13:40,053 --> 00:13:44,623 who is now necessary to my existence almost." 250 00:13:44,624 --> 00:13:48,094 Girl, she's not going without Jane, so don't even ask. 251 00:13:48,095 --> 00:13:52,164 "I never saw a woman I thought so fascinating. 252 00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:53,732 Had I been a man, 253 00:13:53,733 --> 00:13:56,936 I should certainly have fallen in love with her 254 00:13:56,937 --> 00:13:59,005 and had she taken the trouble, 255 00:13:59,006 --> 00:14:02,474 she might have wound me round her finger." 256 00:14:02,475 --> 00:14:04,877 Oh girl, I bet. 257 00:14:04,878 --> 00:14:08,114 "I was so ready to give myself away, 258 00:14:08,115 --> 00:14:10,249 and being afraid of men, 259 00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:14,887 I was apt to get tousey-mousey for women." 260 00:14:14,888 --> 00:14:15,956 Tousey-mousey? 261 00:14:21,794 --> 00:14:23,529 She was like, you know what? 262 00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:25,497 Yeah, I was a lesbian for a while. 263 00:14:25,498 --> 00:14:27,066 I was like dating a girl. 264 00:14:27,067 --> 00:14:29,535 No, you know, that didn't work out. 265 00:14:29,536 --> 00:14:30,370 I don't know. 266 00:14:30,371 --> 00:14:31,904 I don't really like men. 267 00:14:31,905 --> 00:14:35,541 She's so progressive. 268 00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:36,675 I like her. 269 00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:38,044 - Can you believe that bland 270 00:14:38,045 --> 00:14:40,646 and lovely brow conceived of Frankenstein? 271 00:14:40,647 --> 00:14:43,082 - Such an audience needs something stronger 272 00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:45,184 than a pretty little love story. 273 00:14:45,185 --> 00:14:47,519 So why shouldn't I write of monsters? 274 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,657 - She saw it as a gruesome story of what it was like 275 00:14:51,658 --> 00:14:55,061 to create a version of yourself from nothing. 276 00:14:55,062 --> 00:14:57,829 That's her through line, I think, through Frankenstein, 277 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:00,132 is she had to create herself from nothing. 278 00:15:00,133 --> 00:15:02,868 It was like all the pieces just came together 279 00:15:02,869 --> 00:15:04,971 and she was able to really, I mean quite literally, 280 00:15:04,972 --> 00:15:06,472 all the pieces came together 281 00:15:06,473 --> 00:15:09,208 and she was able to make this masterpiece. 282 00:15:15,748 --> 00:15:18,651 - You wake foul dreams of sensual life. 283 00:15:23,823 --> 00:15:25,092 - What a strange poem. 284 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:27,326 Who wrote it? 285 00:15:27,327 --> 00:15:29,395 - Brilliant young Irishman out of Oxford. 286 00:15:29,396 --> 00:15:30,597 His name is Oscar Wilde. 287 00:15:38,972 --> 00:15:42,308 - Oscar Fingal O'Flahertie Wills Wilde. 288 00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:44,276 He's an extremely modern figure. 289 00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:48,280 He became really a sort of self-made celebrity, 290 00:15:48,281 --> 00:15:53,286 but as a writer, he became a phenomenon of the age. 291 00:15:57,957 --> 00:16:00,726 - Oscar Wilde was so brilliant and so successful 292 00:16:00,727 --> 00:16:04,296 and so capable with language and with the art form, 293 00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:05,931 but he was keeping a secret. 294 00:16:05,932 --> 00:16:07,566 - I like persons better than principles 295 00:16:07,567 --> 00:16:09,035 and persons with no principles 296 00:16:09,036 --> 00:16:10,502 better than anything else in the world. 297 00:16:10,503 --> 00:16:11,837 Now I remember. 298 00:16:11,838 --> 00:16:13,272 - Remember what, Henry? 299 00:16:13,273 --> 00:16:15,041 - When I heard the name of Dorian Gray. 300 00:16:15,042 --> 00:16:16,942 - What's beautiful about Dorian Gray 301 00:16:16,943 --> 00:16:20,912 is he created the myth of what happens with repression. 302 00:16:20,913 --> 00:16:23,049 Ultimately, repression will eat you up inside 303 00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:24,616 and you will turn into a monster. 304 00:16:24,617 --> 00:16:26,619 - Each of us has heaven and hell in him. 305 00:16:27,487 --> 00:16:28,720 - But if this is true, 306 00:16:28,721 --> 00:16:30,189 if this is what you've done with your life, 307 00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:32,658 it is far worse than anything that's been said or done. 308 00:16:32,659 --> 00:16:34,026 - The Picture of Dorian Gray 309 00:16:34,027 --> 00:16:36,095 is one of those horror classics. 310 00:16:36,096 --> 00:16:38,930 There's this guy who never seems to get any older 311 00:16:38,931 --> 00:16:41,100 and it turns out he has a magic painting 312 00:16:41,101 --> 00:16:43,035 that ages while he doesn't, 313 00:16:43,036 --> 00:16:45,904 and it's becoming darker and more decrepit 314 00:16:45,905 --> 00:16:49,308 and there is something horrible at the center of it. 315 00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:50,542 - What is your secret, Dorian? 316 00:16:50,543 --> 00:16:51,643 You don't look a day older than you did 317 00:16:51,644 --> 00:16:53,212 when that portrait was painted. 318 00:16:53,213 --> 00:16:54,713 - Perhaps I'll tell you someday. 319 00:16:54,714 --> 00:16:56,148 - Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray, 320 00:16:56,149 --> 00:16:59,551 which is a much more queer take on this idea 321 00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:02,721 of the multiple selves that are contained 322 00:17:02,722 --> 00:17:07,727 within someone and our capacity for debauchery or evil. 323 00:17:08,928 --> 00:17:12,765 - Dorian is sort of an amoral character 324 00:17:13,633 --> 00:17:14,766 and a very queer character. 325 00:17:14,767 --> 00:17:18,804 Beautiful, vain, consumed with pleasure. 326 00:17:18,805 --> 00:17:20,972 If you're talking about the horror continuum, 327 00:17:20,973 --> 00:17:24,376 I think you can draw a line from Dorian Gray 328 00:17:24,377 --> 00:17:27,579 through a character like The Talented Mr. Ripley 329 00:17:27,580 --> 00:17:29,081 by Patricia High Smith, 330 00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:33,352 all the way to Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. 331 00:17:33,353 --> 00:17:36,288 - The Picture of Dorian Gray is very much about 332 00:17:36,289 --> 00:17:38,557 the dangers of being in the closet, 333 00:17:38,558 --> 00:17:41,127 of having a thing that you feel like you can't speak about 334 00:17:41,128 --> 00:17:42,661 to anyone else. 335 00:17:42,662 --> 00:17:47,167 - He is a wounded, deeply tortured queer character, 336 00:17:48,801 --> 00:17:51,470 trapped in a narrative that he's desperately trying 337 00:17:51,471 --> 00:17:52,938 to break out of. 338 00:17:52,939 --> 00:17:55,374 - He's taking his and our collective experience 339 00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:57,543 of being suppressed and repressed and punished 340 00:17:57,544 --> 00:18:00,112 for who we are and he's birthing it 341 00:18:00,113 --> 00:18:01,648 into this beautiful metaphor. 342 00:18:03,049 --> 00:18:06,185 That, to me, is wildly powerful that he was able to do that 343 00:18:06,186 --> 00:18:08,053 before it all came crashing down. 344 00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:12,858 What's amazing is that he's also foreseeing where his life 345 00:18:12,859 --> 00:18:16,862 is going to go once he actually gets caught and charged 346 00:18:16,863 --> 00:18:20,433 and then placed into jail for his homosexuality. 347 00:18:22,302 --> 00:18:25,904 - 1895 is two years before Dracula is published. 348 00:18:25,905 --> 00:18:28,640 The sort of high water mark of so much of, 349 00:18:28,641 --> 00:18:31,009 of what we associate is that, 350 00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:33,245 that kind of gothic literature. 351 00:18:33,246 --> 00:18:36,482 And that was the year that Wilde fell from grace. 352 00:18:36,483 --> 00:18:39,485 Buggery had been a crime for centuries, 353 00:18:39,486 --> 00:18:42,120 but it was rarely prosecuted until 354 00:18:42,121 --> 00:18:47,126 a man called Henry Labouchère suddenly changed the rules 355 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:49,127 and Wilde was the first 356 00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:52,232 and most famous casualty of the whole thing. 357 00:18:54,234 --> 00:18:58,870 But he was fascinatingly given the chance to go. 358 00:18:58,871 --> 00:19:00,706 I think it's either a combination 359 00:19:00,707 --> 00:19:02,741 of a very sympathetic magistrate 360 00:19:02,742 --> 00:19:05,277 or actually the establishment not wanting 361 00:19:05,278 --> 00:19:08,514 to lift the rug on an awful lot of stuff 362 00:19:08,515 --> 00:19:10,148 they didn't want to come out, 363 00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:11,617 but he decided not to go. 364 00:19:11,618 --> 00:19:15,254 So he was arrested. 365 00:19:15,255 --> 00:19:16,855 - It would've been very easy for Wilde 366 00:19:16,856 --> 00:19:19,191 to have fled the country, to have become an expat, 367 00:19:19,192 --> 00:19:22,828 to have run off to France to avoid the prison sentence. 368 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:24,530 But you know, he stood and fought. 369 00:19:24,531 --> 00:19:28,133 That's a really great act of heroism that I don't know 370 00:19:28,134 --> 00:19:30,337 that Oscar Wilde always gets the credit for. 371 00:19:33,306 --> 00:19:36,942 - And then he was sentenced to two years of hard labor 372 00:19:36,943 --> 00:19:41,948 and for a man like him, it was a death sentence. 373 00:19:43,983 --> 00:19:46,485 The judge hideously said he thought 374 00:19:46,486 --> 00:19:48,554 it was completely insufficient 375 00:19:48,555 --> 00:19:50,789 for the gravity of his crime 376 00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:53,726 of daring to love someone of his own sex. 377 00:19:56,463 --> 00:20:01,334 He is conflated in the popular imagination with monstrosity. 378 00:20:03,836 --> 00:20:04,936 - Heaven, forgive me. 379 00:20:04,937 --> 00:20:06,905 - Once his identity was exposed 380 00:20:06,906 --> 00:20:09,508 and it was out there and he was living with it, 381 00:20:09,509 --> 00:20:12,110 it seems like it kind of opened up corridors for him to use 382 00:20:12,111 --> 00:20:14,546 all of that brilliance that he had been sublimating 383 00:20:14,547 --> 00:20:16,815 into a heteronormative structure 384 00:20:16,816 --> 00:20:19,985 and then he kind of found his own, to me, 385 00:20:19,986 --> 00:20:21,921 authenticity and queerness. 386 00:20:24,624 --> 00:20:27,058 - Wilde was a brilliant writer 387 00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:30,262 who actually put his genius into his life. 388 00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:34,533 His life is why we really remember him. 389 00:20:34,534 --> 00:20:37,469 - There's no such thing as a good influence, Mr. Gray. 390 00:20:37,470 --> 00:20:39,371 All influence is immoral. 391 00:20:39,372 --> 00:20:40,839 Why? 392 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,774 - Because the aim of life is self development. 393 00:20:42,775 --> 00:20:44,944 To realize one's nature perfectly. 394 00:20:45,912 --> 00:20:47,178 That's what we're here for. 395 00:20:47,179 --> 00:20:50,916 - I think he was a man who actually worried 396 00:20:50,917 --> 00:20:52,584 that he was trivial, 397 00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:55,687 that in the end he would be remembered for some funny plays 398 00:20:55,688 --> 00:21:00,359 and some funny quips, and incredibly, 399 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,429 by not running away, he became immortal. 400 00:21:30,557 --> 00:21:32,391 - There've been a lot of rumors about Bram Stoker 401 00:21:32,392 --> 00:21:35,861 over the decades about what his actual sexuality was. 402 00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:40,066 - First of all, Bram Stoker was kind of cute. 403 00:21:43,503 --> 00:21:44,703 Like he kind of could get just a tad bit. 404 00:21:44,704 --> 00:21:46,105 That's one thing I wanna say. 405 00:21:47,474 --> 00:21:50,241 - Even if Bram Stoker was queer in some way, 406 00:21:50,242 --> 00:21:54,647 my understanding is that he was not out. 407 00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:58,684 And I think that that can be a very conflicted place 408 00:21:58,685 --> 00:22:00,319 from which to create. 409 00:22:02,188 --> 00:22:03,389 - A few years ago, 410 00:22:03,390 --> 00:22:05,290 David Skal, a horror film historian, 411 00:22:05,291 --> 00:22:08,394 found a letter that Stoker had written to Walt Whitman, 412 00:22:08,395 --> 00:22:10,195 who was probably the most famous homosexual 413 00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:11,663 of the 19th century. 414 00:22:11,664 --> 00:22:14,099 - His letters to Walt Whitman are clearly love letters. 415 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,569 They sort of quake with the quiet longing 416 00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:19,371 that I remember having 417 00:22:19,372 --> 00:22:22,207 for my secret male crushes growing up 418 00:22:22,208 --> 00:22:24,810 and he says everything but, you know, 419 00:22:24,811 --> 00:22:27,112 what he wants to say and even then, 420 00:22:27,113 --> 00:22:29,280 inferring that there are some things 421 00:22:29,281 --> 00:22:30,549 that he would rather say in person. 422 00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:33,786 I don't know, it feels pretty darn gay to me. 423 00:22:36,989 --> 00:22:38,591 "My dear Mr. Whitman, 424 00:22:39,726 --> 00:22:42,327 Do not think me cheeky for writing this. 425 00:22:42,328 --> 00:22:44,696 I only hope we may sometime meet 426 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:48,868 and I shall be able to perhaps to say what I cannot write. 427 00:22:50,069 --> 00:22:52,538 I have to thank you for many happy hours, 428 00:22:52,539 --> 00:22:56,908 for I've read your poems with my door locked late at night. 429 00:22:56,909 --> 00:23:00,045 You who wrote the words know them better than I do 430 00:23:00,046 --> 00:23:04,182 and to you, who sing of your land of progress, 431 00:23:04,183 --> 00:23:07,786 the words have a meaning that I can only imagine. 432 00:23:07,787 --> 00:23:11,523 But be assured of this Walt Whitman, 433 00:23:11,524 --> 00:23:15,393 that a man of less than half your own age here 434 00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:19,197 felt his heart leap toward you across the Atlantic 435 00:23:19,198 --> 00:23:24,203 and his soul swelling at the words or rather the thoughts. 436 00:23:25,772 --> 00:23:30,777 How sweet a thing it is for a strong, healthy man 437 00:23:31,944 --> 00:23:35,547 with a woman's eye and a child's wishes to feel 438 00:23:35,548 --> 00:23:39,851 that he can speak to a man who can be, if he wishes, 439 00:23:39,852 --> 00:23:44,857 father and brother and wife to his soul. 440 00:23:48,495 --> 00:23:52,864 You have shaken off the shackles and your wings are free. 441 00:23:52,865 --> 00:23:56,468 I have the shackles on my shoulders still, 442 00:23:56,469 --> 00:23:58,270 but I have no wings." 443 00:24:01,541 --> 00:24:05,844 - Bram Stoker feels emboldened at some point to perhaps, 444 00:24:05,845 --> 00:24:08,013 you know, start making his way out of the closet. 445 00:24:08,014 --> 00:24:10,849 Talking about his correspondence with Walt Whitman 446 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:14,686 and then in light of cultural events, 447 00:24:14,687 --> 00:24:16,455 suddenly does a full 180. 448 00:24:18,925 --> 00:24:22,661 - We know that he was part of Oscar Wilde's circle. 449 00:24:22,662 --> 00:24:25,296 He was another Irish expatriate. 450 00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:27,933 - Stoker knew Oscar Wilde well. 451 00:24:27,934 --> 00:24:29,601 They were friends and contemporaries. 452 00:24:29,602 --> 00:24:33,805 Wilde's arrest and and prosecution detonated a bomb 453 00:24:33,806 --> 00:24:36,441 in British society. 454 00:24:36,442 --> 00:24:41,012 - After the Wilde trial, there was a lot more burrowing, 455 00:24:41,013 --> 00:24:44,115 a lot more marriages, a lot more hiding 456 00:24:44,116 --> 00:24:47,553 from what was obviously gonna be a very unaccepting public. 457 00:24:47,554 --> 00:24:51,690 - Stoker married Oscar Wilde's ex, Florence, 458 00:24:51,691 --> 00:24:54,492 which is a curious turn of events. 459 00:24:54,493 --> 00:24:56,595 Stoker's passion was the theater 460 00:24:56,596 --> 00:24:59,732 and his great hero was the English actor Henry Irving. 461 00:25:00,767 --> 00:25:02,668 It was an extraordinary relationship. 462 00:25:02,669 --> 00:25:04,736 Irving treated him appallingly. 463 00:25:04,737 --> 00:25:06,972 It's very hard not to interpret 464 00:25:06,973 --> 00:25:10,542 from our perspective as being sub/dom. 465 00:25:10,543 --> 00:25:12,143 - Wake up, master. 466 00:25:13,379 --> 00:25:16,582 - The character of Renfield in the book, 467 00:25:16,583 --> 00:25:19,918 I think there's a kind of transference there. 468 00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:24,356 - I will be one of those who benefits from your generosity. 469 00:25:26,358 --> 00:25:28,493 - That Stoker is putting himself in the position 470 00:25:28,494 --> 00:25:32,664 of this imprisoned madman enthralled to his master. 471 00:25:33,833 --> 00:25:35,333 - Good evening. 472 00:25:35,334 --> 00:25:37,803 - Stoker's working out a lot of his own issues in Dracula. 473 00:25:37,804 --> 00:25:39,871 There's this idea of sexuality 474 00:25:39,872 --> 00:25:44,142 as being this enticing force and difficult to resist, 475 00:25:44,143 --> 00:25:47,679 but one must, because ultimately you know it's monstrous 476 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,548 and it's going to destroy you. 477 00:25:55,087 --> 00:25:56,823 - Welcome to my home. 478 00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:01,793 - Dracula is largely more an expression 479 00:26:01,794 --> 00:26:05,431 of a fear of queerness. 480 00:26:09,602 --> 00:26:14,607 In that Dracula's modus operandi appears to be 481 00:26:15,474 --> 00:26:18,276 to enslave women and torture men 482 00:26:18,277 --> 00:26:23,014 with a kind of psychological psychosexual obsession. 483 00:26:23,015 --> 00:26:27,619 - When the three vampire brides try and feast off Harker, 484 00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:31,122 Dracula appears and he's absolutely furious and he says, 485 00:26:31,123 --> 00:26:32,523 "This man belongs to me." 486 00:26:32,524 --> 00:26:35,661 In Stoker's notes that is written constantly. 487 00:26:35,662 --> 00:26:37,495 Every time he comes back to his notes over a period 488 00:26:37,496 --> 00:26:39,831 of seven years, he writes it again. 489 00:26:39,832 --> 00:26:41,532 It's very important to him. 490 00:26:41,533 --> 00:26:44,302 Seems to mean something quite primal. 491 00:26:44,303 --> 00:26:46,204 - After the publication of Dracula, 492 00:26:46,205 --> 00:26:48,740 Bram Stoker becomes very vocally homophobic, 493 00:26:48,741 --> 00:26:50,575 writing letters to parliament saying 494 00:26:50,576 --> 00:26:52,945 that gay writers should all be put in prison. 495 00:26:58,084 --> 00:27:01,653 One could argue that the existence of Dracula itself 496 00:27:01,654 --> 00:27:05,590 is as much of a dodge as those letters to parliament were. 497 00:27:05,591 --> 00:27:08,493 That Stoker is basically saying, yes, 498 00:27:08,494 --> 00:27:11,096 I know that sexuality seems like something 499 00:27:11,097 --> 00:27:12,964 that you really want to give into, 500 00:27:12,965 --> 00:27:16,467 but you mustn't or you will be doomed for all eternity. 501 00:27:16,468 --> 00:27:18,770 - And then obviously what Stoker is famous for, 502 00:27:18,771 --> 00:27:22,073 he drew together over a period of several years 503 00:27:22,074 --> 00:27:26,311 these myths and legends about vampires into a book which 504 00:27:26,312 --> 00:27:28,714 is originally called The Undead, 505 00:27:28,715 --> 00:27:31,683 featuring a character called Count Vampire. 506 00:27:31,684 --> 00:27:33,218 It's very on the nose. 507 00:27:33,219 --> 00:27:36,722 And then, brilliantly, he came across the legend 508 00:27:36,723 --> 00:27:41,728 of a real life Transylvanian warlord. 509 00:27:42,594 --> 00:27:44,896 Son of the Dragon, Dracula. 510 00:27:44,897 --> 00:27:47,999 I've seen it, the actual page of the manuscript, 511 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,402 and he's crossed out The Undead and writes Dracula. 512 00:27:51,403 --> 00:27:52,238 That's it. 513 00:27:53,439 --> 00:27:54,806 It's a game changer, 514 00:27:54,807 --> 00:27:57,175 the way that Shelley's Frankenstein is a game changer. 515 00:27:57,176 --> 00:27:58,509 Something happens there 516 00:27:58,510 --> 00:28:01,479 which pulls all these legends together 517 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,284 and starts to make the vampire into a popular figure 518 00:28:06,285 --> 00:28:08,353 that we all understand. 519 00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:15,260 - Dracula becomes the sort of heir text for vampires 520 00:28:15,261 --> 00:28:17,095 and it's probably one of the most filmed stories 521 00:28:17,096 --> 00:28:18,296 of all time. 522 00:28:18,297 --> 00:28:20,832 - As we see literary storytelling giving way 523 00:28:20,833 --> 00:28:22,801 to cinematic storytelling, 524 00:28:22,802 --> 00:28:24,102 there are a lot of queer artists who are there 525 00:28:24,103 --> 00:28:26,371 to make sure that that subtext survives 526 00:28:26,372 --> 00:28:29,307 and in fact flourishes as presented on the big screen. 527 00:28:29,308 --> 00:28:31,943 - So, F.W. Murnau. 528 00:28:31,944 --> 00:28:34,913 - After fighting in World War I, 529 00:28:34,914 --> 00:28:38,016 Murnau is existing in Weimar, Germany 530 00:28:38,017 --> 00:28:41,086 and if we know anything from Cabaret, 531 00:28:41,087 --> 00:28:42,320 it's that Germany was a great place 532 00:28:42,321 --> 00:28:43,823 to be gay until it wasn't. 533 00:28:46,192 --> 00:28:48,259 He got out when the getting was good 534 00:28:48,260 --> 00:28:51,029 and came to the United States but not before, you know, 535 00:28:51,030 --> 00:28:55,166 making obviously some singularly iconic queer horror, 536 00:28:55,167 --> 00:28:58,804 including Der Januskopf, Faust, and Nosferatu. 537 00:28:58,805 --> 00:29:00,538 - It's extraordinary to think 538 00:29:00,539 --> 00:29:03,842 that he had his hand in Dracula with Nosferatu 539 00:29:03,843 --> 00:29:05,743 and he had his hand in Jekyll and Hyde. 540 00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:08,279 - Murnau made an unauthorized version 541 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,348 of Dr. Jekyll and Hyde in the early twenties 542 00:29:10,349 --> 00:29:11,850 called Der Januskopf. 543 00:29:11,851 --> 00:29:14,786 These themes of doubled selfs, 544 00:29:14,787 --> 00:29:16,287 a self that is presented 545 00:29:16,288 --> 00:29:19,090 to the world and a self that is secret and hidden, 546 00:29:19,091 --> 00:29:21,860 that is the more libidinal, eroticized self, 547 00:29:21,861 --> 00:29:22,761 appealed to him. 548 00:29:25,031 --> 00:29:26,798 - In a film that is tragically lost to us, 549 00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:28,433 the metaphors are all just kind of sitting there. 550 00:29:28,434 --> 00:29:30,768 This thing inside me that I can't control 551 00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:32,037 and it wants to come out 552 00:29:32,038 --> 00:29:33,805 and I mustn't let it because if it does, 553 00:29:33,806 --> 00:29:35,874 then horrible things will happen. 554 00:29:39,278 --> 00:29:40,979 - We can't help but express 555 00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:43,181 this sort of duality that we all feel. 556 00:29:43,182 --> 00:29:45,283 And if you're aware of being queer, 557 00:29:45,284 --> 00:29:48,820 that parallel is sort of unmistakable and delicious. 558 00:29:53,659 --> 00:29:55,894 - The devil is almost always portrayed as a man 559 00:29:55,895 --> 00:29:57,596 because, you know, the Bible. 560 00:29:59,565 --> 00:30:01,499 And so in a story like Faust, 561 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:04,702 you are left with one man trying to show a man 562 00:30:04,703 --> 00:30:06,972 all the possibilities that life might entail 563 00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:10,741 if only he'll sign up for his dark forces. 564 00:30:10,742 --> 00:30:13,544 You have the devil being the person who's trying 565 00:30:13,545 --> 00:30:17,182 to seduce the central figure away from the beautiful 566 00:30:17,183 --> 00:30:18,918 and wholesome love of a woman. 567 00:30:20,352 --> 00:30:23,388 - There's always a neglected woman over there, isn't there? 568 00:30:23,389 --> 00:30:26,358 Faust is having to choose between her and the devil. 569 00:30:29,795 --> 00:30:32,197 And I think we might hope that he gets taken for good. 570 00:30:32,198 --> 00:30:34,532 I don't know, at least a little part of me does. 571 00:30:34,533 --> 00:30:36,334 To come up with some of that imagery, 572 00:30:36,335 --> 00:30:40,940 I think it requires a willingness to play in the dark. 573 00:30:43,876 --> 00:30:45,810 There are things that go on in the dark, 574 00:30:45,811 --> 00:30:47,846 there are freedoms to explore in the dark 575 00:30:49,048 --> 00:30:51,716 and Faust is very much like Nosferatu 576 00:30:51,717 --> 00:30:54,119 in that the world of the so called devil, 577 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,656 enemy, evil figure, is so intoxicating. 578 00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:02,261 It makes it so clear why you want to dance with the devil. 579 00:31:06,966 --> 00:31:10,201 - Nosferatu is the one that changed everything. 580 00:31:10,202 --> 00:31:12,370 - Where do horror movies really start? 581 00:31:12,371 --> 00:31:14,005 They start with Nosferatu. 582 00:31:14,006 --> 00:31:17,508 They start with this coded, phallic, 583 00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:20,178 vampire cinematic image. 584 00:31:20,179 --> 00:31:23,414 That's where our understanding of what a monster is begins 585 00:31:23,415 --> 00:31:26,952 and it's no wonder that the monster is so captivating 586 00:31:26,953 --> 00:31:30,588 and so seductive even as they're horrifying. 587 00:31:30,589 --> 00:31:33,658 So much of that must have come from F.W. Murnau's 588 00:31:33,659 --> 00:31:37,162 being a queer artist, from Bram Stoker being a queer artist. 589 00:31:37,163 --> 00:31:42,000 That stuff is kind of in the DNA of what a movie monster is. 590 00:31:44,003 --> 00:31:46,037 - I love a lot of the Dracula films, 591 00:31:46,038 --> 00:31:50,442 but the one that hits closest to home for me is Nosferatu. 592 00:31:52,544 --> 00:31:56,181 All of the other depictions of Dracula tend to be 593 00:31:56,182 --> 00:32:01,087 a dashing romantic hero and I've never seen Dracula 594 00:32:01,820 --> 00:32:03,321 as a romantic hero. 595 00:32:03,322 --> 00:32:07,058 I've always seen him as hobbled and made sort of, 596 00:32:07,059 --> 00:32:12,064 despite his power, pitifully small by his monstrousness. 597 00:32:13,265 --> 00:32:16,234 - Unlike in the book where Dracula begins 598 00:32:16,235 --> 00:32:19,804 as a hideous old man and then gradually gets younger, 599 00:32:19,805 --> 00:32:24,810 he stays hideous and Max Schreck's look is iconic. 600 00:32:26,245 --> 00:32:27,912 - On my bucket list was always to play a vampire, 601 00:32:27,913 --> 00:32:30,148 but the one I really related to was Nosferatu 602 00:32:30,149 --> 00:32:33,951 because he looked, he was perceived to look as hideous. 603 00:32:33,952 --> 00:32:36,621 He doesn't know that yet and I kinda love that, 604 00:32:36,622 --> 00:32:39,224 I find the beauty in that. 605 00:32:42,061 --> 00:32:47,065 - Nosferatu actually evokes this sniffling rodent 606 00:32:47,066 --> 00:32:49,734 that is, I think in a way, 607 00:32:49,735 --> 00:32:52,238 a truer expression of the character. 608 00:32:53,739 --> 00:32:57,076 And then because of that also becomes strangely more human. 609 00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:02,213 - 'Cause Murnau was a gay director, 610 00:33:02,214 --> 00:33:03,648 I think he sort of plays up 611 00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:05,083 some of the gay undertones in the story. 612 00:33:05,084 --> 00:33:08,019 It features what some scholars called 613 00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:09,454 the beast in the boudoir motif, 614 00:33:09,455 --> 00:33:11,956 which is where the monster comes into the bedroom at night. 615 00:33:11,957 --> 00:33:15,126 And in Murnau's version there's a bedroom seduction scene 616 00:33:15,127 --> 00:33:18,096 between Count Orlok, as he's called in Noserfatu 617 00:33:18,097 --> 00:33:20,299 and Jonathan Hutter or Harker. 618 00:33:23,535 --> 00:33:25,570 - Having the monster out at the edge of town 619 00:33:25,571 --> 00:33:27,873 is a horror idea that we keep coming back to, 620 00:33:29,041 --> 00:33:31,442 but it also sort of spoke to the place 621 00:33:31,443 --> 00:33:33,844 that queer people held in society. 622 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:36,781 - Nosferatu is sort of a cornerstone 623 00:33:36,782 --> 00:33:41,086 of what we would see over and over again in vampire cinema 624 00:33:41,087 --> 00:33:43,521 where there's the outsider, 625 00:33:43,522 --> 00:33:46,524 and there's the sexual nature of the bites 626 00:33:46,525 --> 00:33:49,394 and the entrancement and so yeah, 627 00:33:49,395 --> 00:33:51,229 he is already, in the silent era, 628 00:33:51,230 --> 00:33:54,332 bringing this very kind of queer coding 629 00:33:54,333 --> 00:33:55,834 to this kind of storytelling. 630 00:33:57,269 --> 00:34:00,205 - It's very simple to find antisemitic overtones 631 00:34:00,206 --> 00:34:04,675 in vampire movies from Stoker 632 00:34:04,676 --> 00:34:07,346 through to Murnau's film Nosferatu. 633 00:34:08,647 --> 00:34:10,581 In the late 19th century, 634 00:34:10,582 --> 00:34:14,952 many, many Jews arrived in London from Eastern Europe. 635 00:34:14,953 --> 00:34:16,887 You can easily map the horror 636 00:34:16,888 --> 00:34:19,224 of the Eastern European vampire 637 00:34:19,225 --> 00:34:24,195 to this new cluster of immigrant communities. 638 00:34:24,196 --> 00:34:26,897 - If I were sort of around at that time 639 00:34:26,898 --> 00:34:28,766 and I was aware of that bias, 640 00:34:28,767 --> 00:34:31,336 sort of seeing Orlok as anything other than a gay Jew 641 00:34:31,337 --> 00:34:33,738 would be quite difficult I think. 642 00:34:33,739 --> 00:34:38,744 - Conflating Jews and homosexuals as the evil, as the bad. 643 00:34:39,878 --> 00:34:41,546 The fact that he utilized any of that 644 00:34:41,547 --> 00:34:44,715 in his making of Nosferatu, of course it makes sense, 645 00:34:44,716 --> 00:34:47,318 it's good to be good at your craft and to scare people, 646 00:34:47,319 --> 00:34:49,521 but it's also really, really dangerous. 647 00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:53,691 - This fear of the other, 648 00:34:53,692 --> 00:34:55,493 whether that other is homosexual or Jewish 649 00:34:55,494 --> 00:34:57,628 or just an outsider, 650 00:34:57,629 --> 00:35:01,065 he is certainly relying upon that fear 651 00:35:01,066 --> 00:35:02,734 as a driver of the movie. 652 00:35:05,204 --> 00:35:08,139 - I just think, as a Jew and as homosexual, 653 00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:11,409 I'm very aware and scared of these narratives. 654 00:35:11,410 --> 00:35:15,713 - Nosferatu was the first adaptation 655 00:35:15,714 --> 00:35:19,518 of Bram Stoker's Dracula and it was an illegal adaptation. 656 00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:25,224 - He's basically doing unofficial Dracula fan fiction. 657 00:35:26,725 --> 00:35:31,730 - Florence Stoker sued because it was just a rip off. 658 00:35:32,864 --> 00:35:35,833 There was no royalty paid to Stoker's estate 659 00:35:35,834 --> 00:35:37,935 for making this version of Dracula. 660 00:35:37,936 --> 00:35:41,606 - The court ordered every print of Nosferatu destroyed. 661 00:35:41,607 --> 00:35:46,612 One print survived the massacre of Nosferatu prints 662 00:35:47,746 --> 00:35:51,148 and that one print gave birth to every print 663 00:35:51,149 --> 00:35:54,319 that has been circulated around the world. 664 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,922 If it weren't for one person who hid that print, 665 00:35:57,923 --> 00:36:00,759 we would not know Nosferatu the way that we know it today. 666 00:36:01,893 --> 00:36:05,596 Nosferatu became, really the first cult film. 667 00:36:05,597 --> 00:36:10,602 The Bram Stoker estate actively hunting down every print 668 00:36:11,970 --> 00:36:14,004 of Nosferatu greatly contributed to the success of Dracula 669 00:36:14,005 --> 00:36:15,873 because it created this buzz, 670 00:36:15,874 --> 00:36:19,277 at first on Broadway and then at the movies. 671 00:36:24,916 --> 00:36:26,717 - The early pillars of horror 672 00:36:26,718 --> 00:36:30,588 were these Universal monster movies starting with Dracula. 673 00:36:37,496 --> 00:36:40,365 - I am Dracula. 674 00:36:40,366 --> 00:36:43,734 - When I was a kid, I started buying Aurora model kits 675 00:36:43,735 --> 00:36:46,871 from Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine. 676 00:36:46,872 --> 00:36:50,841 And I remember my two sisters on the floor playing 677 00:36:50,842 --> 00:36:53,378 with Barbie and Ken and I'm up there playing 678 00:36:53,379 --> 00:36:55,813 with Frankenstein and the Wolfman. 679 00:36:55,814 --> 00:36:59,049 Oh I love them, I love all the Universal monsters. 680 00:36:59,050 --> 00:37:02,587 I like Dracula the best because even though 681 00:37:02,588 --> 00:37:04,689 I was a little kid, I knew he was really sexy. 682 00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:06,324 - Laugh all you like. 683 00:37:06,325 --> 00:37:08,726 I think he's fascinating. 684 00:37:08,727 --> 00:37:12,697 - Bela Lugosi's Dracula presents as like 685 00:37:12,698 --> 00:37:14,832 if elegance was a gender. 686 00:37:14,833 --> 00:37:16,033 - Is it cyclical? 687 00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:18,303 There are sort of fashions in vampirism. 688 00:37:18,304 --> 00:37:21,105 Bela Lugosi took over it from Max Schreck 689 00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:23,308 and Dracula became much more urbane. 690 00:37:23,309 --> 00:37:25,776 - Bela Lugosi's Dracula has a certain, 691 00:37:25,777 --> 00:37:28,479 it's this like glide across the room energy 692 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,981 that I've always wanted. 693 00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:36,354 - I once had said it was manic bisexual energy, 694 00:37:36,355 --> 00:37:40,024 but it is manic, pansexual, omnisexual energy. 695 00:37:40,025 --> 00:37:42,727 - Anything I can do, gladly. 696 00:37:42,728 --> 00:37:46,364 - The Dracula costume kit is basically drag. 697 00:37:46,365 --> 00:37:51,370 You have face paint and then you have blood red lips, 698 00:37:52,771 --> 00:37:54,705 and then you slick your hair back, you put on a cape, 699 00:37:54,706 --> 00:37:57,308 you put on fancy antique jewels. 700 00:37:57,309 --> 00:37:59,209 - I bid you welcome. 701 00:37:59,210 --> 00:38:01,211 - And then you go live in a castle 702 00:38:01,212 --> 00:38:04,549 and you can turn into a bat. 703 00:38:06,251 --> 00:38:11,121 So like, this to me is the experience of being a gay man. 704 00:38:11,122 --> 00:38:14,693 - I hope you will find this comfortable. 705 00:38:15,861 --> 00:38:17,928 - Thanks, it looks very inviting. 706 00:38:17,929 --> 00:38:19,464 - I think if Bram Stoker were alive, 707 00:38:19,465 --> 00:38:21,832 he'd probably have said Bela Lugosi was his favorite 708 00:38:21,833 --> 00:38:24,535 because he was strange and exotic. 709 00:38:24,536 --> 00:38:28,339 - The spider spinning his we for the unwary fly. 710 00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:31,410 The blood is the light, Mr. Renfield. 711 00:38:32,778 --> 00:38:34,745 - He had a quality to him. 712 00:38:34,746 --> 00:38:36,280 You didn't think he was that monstrous. 713 00:38:36,281 --> 00:38:39,049 I mean, when the wolves are baying and he says. 714 00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:40,318 - Children of the night. 715 00:38:41,953 --> 00:38:43,789 What music they make. 716 00:38:45,591 --> 00:38:47,492 - It's kind of like, oh. 717 00:38:47,493 --> 00:38:50,861 He has an aesthetic soul. 718 00:38:50,862 --> 00:38:53,431 - When Dwight Frye, as Renfield, 719 00:38:53,432 --> 00:38:55,332 first meets Bela Lugosi's Dracula, 720 00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:57,168 he practically gets the vapors. 721 00:39:00,171 --> 00:39:02,608 - It's really good to see you. 722 00:39:03,742 --> 00:39:05,776 - Dwight Frye commits kind of a fruity, 723 00:39:05,777 --> 00:39:08,613 over the top, excessive performance. 724 00:39:08,614 --> 00:39:10,915 - Yes, master. 725 00:39:10,916 --> 00:39:13,751 - And how did he get to be so over the top? 726 00:39:13,752 --> 00:39:15,152 - It's just a scratch. 727 00:39:15,153 --> 00:39:16,754 - He is bitten by Dracula 728 00:39:16,755 --> 00:39:18,689 in the opening sequence of the film. 729 00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:20,290 And again, it's quite pronounced 730 00:39:20,291 --> 00:39:22,560 that this is a homoerotic act 731 00:39:22,561 --> 00:39:25,129 because he sort of passes out 732 00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:28,065 and then Dracula enters the scene 733 00:39:28,066 --> 00:39:30,735 and then he bends down in almost sort of like 734 00:39:30,736 --> 00:39:33,203 a spider like crouch as he moves 735 00:39:33,204 --> 00:39:35,707 in on the supine Renfield. 736 00:39:38,109 --> 00:39:38,944 - Dracula? 737 00:39:46,051 --> 00:39:49,620 I never even heard the name before. 738 00:39:49,621 --> 00:39:52,490 - It is a hysterical over the top performance 739 00:39:52,491 --> 00:39:54,892 that is perceived today perhaps as being camp. 740 00:39:54,893 --> 00:39:56,827 - Who wants to eat flies? 741 00:39:56,828 --> 00:39:59,363 - You do, ya loony. 742 00:39:59,364 --> 00:40:04,369 - Not when I can get nice fat spiders. 743 00:40:05,537 --> 00:40:06,737 - It is absolutely a feeling of connection 744 00:40:06,738 --> 00:40:08,673 that many gay people have for that character 745 00:40:08,674 --> 00:40:10,641 because it is being marginalized, 746 00:40:10,642 --> 00:40:12,042 it's being told that you're crazy, 747 00:40:12,043 --> 00:40:14,244 it's being told that you don't fit in. 748 00:40:14,245 --> 00:40:15,513 - Come along, now. 749 00:40:15,514 --> 00:40:16,714 Come along. 750 00:40:16,715 --> 00:40:18,449 - Yet absolutely having a conviction 751 00:40:18,450 --> 00:40:19,884 that nobody else shares. 752 00:40:23,121 --> 00:40:24,388 Why, he's mad. 753 00:40:24,389 --> 00:40:26,190 - The queerness of that performance, 754 00:40:26,191 --> 00:40:27,892 that's Todd Browning's reaction 755 00:40:27,893 --> 00:40:29,860 to the world outside of Universal Studios, 756 00:40:29,861 --> 00:40:32,229 which was really embracing the Pansy Craze. 757 00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:36,166 - Tod Browning's Dracula came out to the 1931 758 00:40:36,167 --> 00:40:37,835 at the height of the Pansy Craze. 759 00:40:37,836 --> 00:40:40,938 - The Pansy Craze referred to drag entertainers 760 00:40:40,939 --> 00:40:43,040 who performed in mainly nightclubs. 761 00:40:43,041 --> 00:40:45,876 Some of the most significant pansy clubs 762 00:40:45,877 --> 00:40:47,912 were very close to Universal Studios 763 00:40:47,913 --> 00:40:50,414 when these horror films were being made. 764 00:40:50,415 --> 00:40:54,552 At that time, there was a celebration of gay life 765 00:40:54,553 --> 00:40:57,154 in a very big way in Tinseltown. 766 00:40:57,155 --> 00:41:00,658 All the intelligentsia of Hollywood came to these clubs 767 00:41:00,659 --> 00:41:02,960 to hear these different performers and see them 768 00:41:02,961 --> 00:41:05,395 because they were witty, they were smart, they were fun, 769 00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:09,501 they were outrageous, and they were daring. 770 00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:13,504 - The wonderful thing about the Pansy Craze 771 00:41:13,505 --> 00:41:16,273 in cities like New York, in Los Angeles and London 772 00:41:16,274 --> 00:41:18,275 is this invitation for the normies 773 00:41:18,276 --> 00:41:19,777 to engage with the queers. 774 00:41:19,778 --> 00:41:22,279 A lot of that had to do with prohibition and it was one of 775 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,015 the only places where straight people could get a drink. 776 00:41:25,016 --> 00:41:27,852 - I never drink wine. 777 00:41:27,853 --> 00:41:30,487 - Tod Browning used a lot of gay actors. 778 00:41:30,488 --> 00:41:31,722 David Manners, 779 00:41:31,723 --> 00:41:34,759 who plays the romantic interest in Dracula 780 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,594 - Mina. 781 00:41:36,828 --> 00:41:40,264 You're so, like a changed girl. 782 00:41:40,265 --> 00:41:43,233 - Who retired from films because he was gay 783 00:41:43,234 --> 00:41:45,069 and he couldn't be cast as a leading man 784 00:41:45,070 --> 00:41:46,403 when people knew that he was queer. 785 00:41:46,404 --> 00:41:47,705 - What's he done to you, dearie? 786 00:41:47,706 --> 00:41:49,173 Tell me. 787 00:41:49,174 --> 00:41:51,275 - He came to me. 788 00:41:51,276 --> 00:41:56,046 He opened a vein in his arm and he made me drink. 789 00:41:57,583 --> 00:42:01,920 - There is this kind of tragic subtext for Dracula 790 00:42:03,121 --> 00:42:06,591 because he's never fully in that life 791 00:42:06,592 --> 00:42:09,794 that he's been dealt. 792 00:42:09,795 --> 00:42:13,363 He becomes a perfect metaphor in many ways, 793 00:42:13,364 --> 00:42:15,265 I think, for queer people. 794 00:42:15,266 --> 00:42:18,502 - What's always worked for vampires, 795 00:42:18,503 --> 00:42:19,971 even when they're monstrous, 796 00:42:21,406 --> 00:42:24,475 is there's something that we shouldn't like about them. 797 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,685 - He is meant to be the plague and so it's very interesting 798 00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:37,988 that there has been adaptation after adaptation 799 00:42:37,989 --> 00:42:40,825 after adaptation of the Dracula myth 800 00:42:40,826 --> 00:42:43,427 in which he becomes the central character. 801 00:42:43,428 --> 00:42:47,131 But in fact, that's not the story of Dracula. 802 00:42:47,132 --> 00:42:50,601 The story of Dracula is ordinary people visited 803 00:42:50,602 --> 00:42:53,738 by this terrible force. 804 00:42:53,739 --> 00:42:56,473 - How long have you had those little marks? 805 00:42:56,474 --> 00:42:57,742 - Marks? 806 00:42:57,743 --> 00:42:59,309 - The interesting thing is to me, 807 00:42:59,310 --> 00:43:01,912 he has always been a ambiguous sexual figure. 808 00:43:01,913 --> 00:43:06,918 He is the sort of definition of forbidden desire, 809 00:43:07,653 --> 00:43:09,520 whatever that may be. 810 00:43:11,857 --> 00:43:13,858 - I think what made Dracula so timeless 811 00:43:13,859 --> 00:43:16,226 as a character is sex. 812 00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:20,765 - I felt it's breath on my face. 813 00:43:20,766 --> 00:43:22,232 And then it's lips. 814 00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:24,769 - Something tapping at the window is frightening, 815 00:43:24,770 --> 00:43:26,871 but it's also quite sexy 816 00:43:26,872 --> 00:43:28,906 'cause you never know what it's going to be 817 00:43:28,907 --> 00:43:30,908 and it's massively tied up 818 00:43:30,909 --> 00:43:34,511 in all these kind of oppressed desires. 819 00:43:34,512 --> 00:43:36,480 It's representing something very, 820 00:43:36,481 --> 00:43:39,616 very powerful inside us all. 821 00:43:39,617 --> 00:43:44,388 That actually, one night with Dracula is worth dying for. 61722

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