All language subtitles for El do

- I have a feeling that,
inside you, somewhere,

there's something
nobody knows about.

- Something nobody knows?

- Something secret
and wonderful,

and I'll find it out.

- [laughs] It's not good to
find out too much, Charlie.

[tense upbeat music]

- James Whale and Alfred
Hitchcock was sort of the bridge,

to me, between horror
films and queerness.

- Now, you seem very interested
in the subject of murder.

- Well, no more
than anyone else.

- I think you'd be hard
pressed to not find a gay man

who doesn't relate,
at least, [laughs]

to being driven crazy by his
mother's voice in his head.

- [Mother] It's sad when a
mother has to speak the words

that condemn her own son.

- Hitchcock created a picture
that, as soon as you saw it,

you couldn't look away and
you couldn't let go of it.

[menacing music]

- Like Hitchcock,
James Whale's images

in those movies
are so indelible.

I never really know for sure

if I should be
repelled or intrigued.

- Alfred Hitchcock
recognized the fear

surrounding living your
life as a queer person.

- I really like James
Whale in a lot of ways

because I can say "Yes, yes,

it's because he's queer that I
connect with these monsters."

- Hitchcock was making
these gay characters

the more interesting characters

because maybe it
was a part of him.

[slow tense music]

- I think Hitchcock's kind of
weird about sex in general.

I think he finds the whole
thing a little bit unappetizing.

[creepy music]

- James Whale figured out

pretty early on how to
get past the censors.

- Alfred Hitchcock's like
balls out. He's like, "What?"

No rules.

[woman screaming]

- What you see is
filmmakers being

a little bit more explicit
about queer storylines

because they could get
away with them. [laughs]

[slow music]

- Am I giving you
bride? [laughs]

♪ You can get just
what you want ♪

♪ If you know where to go ♪

♪ What to do ♪

♪ Find just what
you need to find ♪

♪ Come and join me inside ♪

♪ The backroom ♪

♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪

- This creature of yours
should be kept under guard.

Mark my words. He
will prove dangerous.

- Have you never wanted to do
anything that was dangerous?

- When you talk
about queer cinema,

you have to talk
about James Whale.

[tense music]

- He did all kinds of movies,

but his kind of quartet

of horror movies are
what he's remembered for.

[tense music]

[Bride hissing]

- He created the archetypal
horror film in Hollywood.

- It's alive!

It's alive! It's alive!

It's alive!

- Now, I think with Whale's
films, you can definitely,

you know, he's not
making it hard for you

to do the queer read on them.

[footsteps creaking]

- My name is Femm, Horace Femm.

- There's plenty of
camp in those movies.

It's a, it's almost like
a language, I wanna say,

for queer artists and a coded
way of speaking about society

in a way that society won't
necessarily catch on to.

- Can I take your
coat and hat, sir,

and give 'em a nice
dry in the kitchen?

- No.

[chiming music]

- So, James Whale's
a fascinating figure.

He, you know, serves as
an officer for the British

in World War I, spends a
lot of time in a POW camp,

and in the camp, starts getting
involved in these dramatics,

these little plays
that are being put on

to sort of raise the
morale of the men,

give them something to do,

and that's where he discovers
this love of theater.

[creepy music]

He returns to London
after the war is over.

He winds up directing a
play called "Journey's End,"

which is considered by many

to be like the definitive
World War I play.

So, you know, he,

on the success of
"Journey's End"

goes to Broadway, eventually
goes to Hollywood.

[bomb blasting]

- Hello, Jimmy.

You got one quickly.

- He was an obvious talent,

and he signed a contract with
Carl Laemmle at Universal

and they gave him the
pick of the properties,

and being a homosexual with
a modern sense of humor,

he said, I'll do
"Frankenstein," please.

[thunder rumbling]

- We are about to unfold
the story of "Frankenstein,"

a man of science

who sought to create a
man after his own image

without reckoning upon God.

- Whale created a
groundbreaking film

because he incorporated German
expressionist cinema into it,

camera angles that had
never been used before,

all filtered through the
lens of his queerness.

- He found an actor
in the canteen

at Universal Studios
called Boris Karloff

and said, "I think your
face has possibilities."

[slow music]

- When I think of
monsters, I'm like,

"It's all about Frankenstein."

So classic, such a good look,

a strong brow,
handsome shoulders,

[Frankenstein roaring]

stitched together of
corpse body parts.

I love that guy.

- He's a monster.

And you know, just on
the most basic level,

gay people are called monsters

and have been for a long time.

So, there's that.

- There he is! The murderer!

[crowd shouting]

- If you've been on the
other side of the pitch fork,

you're maybe a little
sympathetic to the monster.

- "Frankenstein's Monster,"

how do you not fall
in love with that oaf?

You know, walking around,

just looking for love

and everybody keeps chasing
him with pitch forks.

[crowd shouting]

This sort of empathy towards
the monster is clearly a draw

for me with the genre.

It kind of begins there.

- The monster is innocent.

He is brought into being.

He is what he is, and it is the
society that is the monster.

[crowd shouting]

- The monster never
did anything to nobody.

He just, he's an innocent,
in a real sense of the word,

but he looks real
scary to people

because they don't get him.

[bride screaming]

[Frankenstein growling]

- There's something about
Frankenstein as a monster

that I think speaks to a
really quintessential part

of queer experience

and that like you
don't always realize

that you're different, right?

And once you do,

you realize that society sees
you as something monstrous.

It's like this
internalized self loathing.

[crowd muttering]

- Horror has always been
interwoven very deeply

with the idea of what it means

to be someone who is
not accepted by society

but nevertheless has a soul.

- Would you like
one of my flowers?

- [Emily] Which is the story
of Frankenstein's monster

in particular.

- "Frankenstein" is one of
the first movies I heard

of having a like
clear queer parallel.

- Is anything wrong?

- I've felt it all day.

Something is coming between us.

I know it.

I know it.

- When you look at James
Whale directing "Frankenstein"

and you look at the queer
theory surrounding it,

it is almost always
the homosexual subtext

because James Whale was
a homosexual director.

But what gets lost is the
transgender narrative.

- Think of it,

the brain of a dead man
waiting to live again

in a body I made
with my own hands,

with my own hands.

- "Frankenstein"
is about the idea

that science might
subvert the ways

that God has set
up the universe.

There is this element of
science helping you find

your true form that
is not, not trans,

but also society regards
that science as ghoulish.

Every day, trans people are
playing God for themselves.

- It's moving.

[thunder rumbling]

- They are saying,

I'm going to reanimate
the parts of myself

that everyone has told
me should be dead.

- Now I know what it
feels like to be God!

- That powerful metaphor creates

within us this kinship
with this monster

who really doesn't
deserve what comes to him.

[menacing music]

[dogs barking]

- "Frankenstein," which
was an immensely popular

and famous film.

[dramatic music]

- James Whale was,
by that point,

becoming number one or number
two director at Universal,

so he could have a little more
freedom to do what he wanted.

[man shouting]
[door banging]

[creepy music]
[rain dribbling]

- Good evening.

- I really love "The
Old Dark House."

I love the way that he seems
to be inventing a genre

and satirizing it.

[creepy music]

[thunder rumbling]

You are witnessing
construction and deconstruction

at the same time.

[man laughing]

He's giving us the, you know,

it was a darken
and stormy night,

the spooky house and
the weird people inside

and the don't go in that room
and all of that kind of stuff.

[woman screams]

And at the same time,

there's such a tongue in cheek
attitude to the whole thing.

- I'm dreadfully wet
and I would be so glad

if I could go and
change my clothes?

- What?

- I wondered if I
might change my things.

- You look wet. You better
go and change your things.

- There's an incredibly
effeminate gentleman

running the house.

- My sister was on the point
of arranging these flowers.

[mischievous music]

- And then he is got like a
really dykey lesbian sister.

- You think of nothing but
your long straight legs

and your white body and
how to please your man.

- Thinly veiled, thinly veiled.

Then there's like a hundred
and something year old man

like tucked away in
a room somewhere.

- Who are you?

- I'm Mrs. Waverton.
This is my husband.

Are you Sir Roderick Femm?

- Who's fully played
by a woman in a beard.

- You shouldn't have come here.

- "The Old Dark House" is
really spectacularly queer.

- Well, there's no accounting
for tastes, you know? [laughs]

- No.

- Ernest Thesiger was
a wonderful actor,

a decorated war hero, and
an absolute screaming queen.

- This is my room.

- Huh?

- There are one of two things
that I should very much like

for you to see.

- He was a great
friend of Queen Mary's.

They used to embroider together.

- It's only gin, you know.

Only gin. I like gin.

- Thesiger was a
female impersonator

and kind of a bawdy musical
comedian and he brings that

to all of his film
performances for Whale.

- You will have to stay here.

The misfortune is
yours, not ours.

- No beds. They can't have beds.

- As my sister hints, there
are, I'm afraid, no beds.

- "The Old Dark House" starts
to build the camp sensibility

and humor of James Whale's work

that we didn't really
see in "Frankenstein."

[wind whipping]

[woman screaming]

It's really a muscle
building exercise

that allows him to tell stories
like "The Invisible Man."

[creepy music]

- James Whale's
third horror film

for Universal was
"The Invisible Man,"

which is another
one of those stories

about a scientist who
forsakes his girlfriend

in order to do these
mad experiments.

- Why did you do this?

- Power, power to rule,

to make the world
grovel at my feet.

- Also pre-code, "The Invisible
Man" is really violent,

really deviant, and
you have this madness

that gives you a sense
of Whale's playfulness

as a storyteller.

- He's here, the Invisible Man!

[woman screaming]

- We'll begin with
a reign of terror,

a few murders here and there.

We might even break
a train or two.

[train engine rumbling]

[Invisible Man laughing]

- It might have been

one of the first maniacally
cackling villains

that I had ever seen.

- I'll show you who I am
and what I am! [laughs]

- Just, I mean that
cliche of the monster

who is so delighted
by his own evil

that he just can't
keep from giggling,

and I'm sure I was influenced.

[Chucky laughing]

- The concept of
"The Invisible Man,"

and of course,
there's the, you know,

the book about the Black
experience, "The Invisible Man,"

but this idea of a person
who was living among others

but can't be seen by them,

I was very aware that
other people were aware

that I was Black immediately
in every situation,

but queer, not so much,

and even in the Black
community that I came up in,

it really was not,

to be a man and to be
gay were not two things

that you could be
at the same time.

I think that that's probably

where the invisibility
thing comes in

because having to hide was
just a part of the fabric

of my understanding
of how to live.

- Huh? How do you like
that, eh? [laughs]

- James Whale is amazing for
how brilliant his movies were

and how far they went and he
was able to do that pre-code,

because at that
point, anything went.

[woman screaming]

♪ Here we go gathering
nuts in May ♪

♪ Nuts in May, nuts in May ♪

♪ Here we go gathering
nuts in May ♪

♪ On a cold and
frosty morning. ♪

- Hollywood had been
suspect for its morals

and sort of licentious
images on the screen,

[Invisible Man groaning]

and the Catholics and the
Protestants were very concerned

about Hollywood ruining
the morals of America.

- That's fine stuff,
but it'll rot.

That's finer stuff still,

but it'll rot too in time.

- Don't! How dare you?

- There was a seat
change in Hollywood

at the end of 1933
going into 1934

with the advancement
of the Hayes Codes.

- The code sets up high
standards of performance

for a motion picture producer.

It states the considerations
which good taste

and community value
make necessary

in this universal
form of entertainment.

- The Hays Code was something

that was written
by a Jesuit priest

and the intention was that
it was a set of standards

for film productions to follow.

[typewriter clicking]
- You can't intimate

homosexuality, you
can't show immorality.

- [BJ] Seductive dancing,
interracial kissing,

excessive use of
drugs and alcohol.

[typewriter bell rings]

- So, in "Frankenstein"
for example,

when the film was
released after 1934,

i.e. after the production code
seal of approval was put in,

- No!

- Both the drowning of the
little girl was cut out

as well as the line
about playing God.

- In the name of God,

now I know it feels
like to be God!

- Certainly, when the code
came in, what was great,

you saw him doing somersaults

and you saw him
figuring out new ways

to put meaning into
his material in a way

that he could get
it past the censors.

- He was dealing in
horror and fantasy.

And so, when the
censors would come in

and tell him he
couldn't do things,

it was like, but
this is not real.

This is somebody's dream.

- When you have these
fantastical movies

with these imaginary creatures,

it could, the story can
be whatever you want.

[upbeat band music]

- He agrees, I think
somewhat against his will,

to do a sequel to
"Frankenstein."

- Nothing can persuade me.

- We shall see.

[creepy music]

- No, not that.

- Oh, he's quite harmless,
except when crossed.

[creepy music]

- If you just sort of go into it

thinking he's gonna be the
return of "Frankenstein,"

then you should steady yourself

because it's an
absolutely bizarre film.

[scary music]

- She's alive!

Alive!

- James Whale's fourth
and final horror film

for Universal is the
"Bride of Frankenstein,"

and this film is really
quite a remarkable reworking,

inversion, deconstruction of
all of the horror movie tropes.

It's really Whale kind
of doing what he wants

and sending up the conventions
of the production code.

He puts all of this kind of
subversive stuff into the film

that just flew over the
head of the censors.

- Henry! Henry!

Henry! Henry! [sobbing]

- I guess the question is,

is how gay is "Bride
of Frankenstein?"

And to me, it's very gay,

but I think we have to
ask the question of,

how gay do they mean it to be?

And the answer is
very complicated.

[slow music]

[Una whimpering]

[Una shouting]

I really don't
think he was trying

to make a campy gay movie.

I think he was trying to
make something compelling

and entertaining and emotional.

- Before you came,

I was all alone.

It is bad to be alone.

- Alone, bad.

Friend, good.

- I think he was trying
to make a serious movie

but I think he
understood entertainment.

- Why have you
come here tonight?

- My business with
you, Baron, is private.

- The whole movie is predicated

on a marriage being interrupted

so that these two men
can go off together

and create life their
way, their special way.

You know? [laughs]

- He literally yanks that
man from his bed chamber

where he's about to have
sex with his wife, I assume,

and like he's like,
come together,

make a baby with me, Dr.
Frankenstein. [laughs]

- If you, Herr Baron,
will do me the honor

of visiting my humble abode,

I think you'll be interested
in what I have to show you.

- Every time I watch
"Bride of Frankenstein,"

I forget there's a scene
with weird little people

that live in glass cases.

And I'm like, what is this?

- There's a certain resemblance
to me, don't you think?

Or do I flatter myself?

- Pretorius, is sexless,
manipulative, properly evil.

- There are always
accidental deaths occurring.

- Always.

- With this bizarre agenda
for creating life without sex.

- Shall we put the heart in now?

- Yes.

- One of the ways that
James Whale was fearless

in making "Bride of
Frankenstein" was just the way

he directed Ernest Thesiger
to play the character

of Dr. Pretorius, 'cause he
is so camp and such a queen.

- I can't be the first person
to to call him Dr. Gay Torius.

I cannot be the first
person to do that.

- Alone, you have created a man.

Now, together, we
will create his mate.

- You know, he does this
thing with his hands

where he like
splays his fingers.

He goes,

- The Bride of Frankenstein.

- Like he's the
bride's publicist.

- Whale was able to
use his queer friends

in the most delightful ways.

- You've got this
gaggle of queer actors.

You've got Elsa Lanchester.

You've got Colin Clive.

You've got Ernest Thesiger.

You've got Una O'Connor.

- Let them all be
murdered in their beds.

- Una O'Connor is
a hilarious leader

of the torch bearing villagers.

- That's the best bar I ever
saw in all me life. [laughs]

- In "The Invisible Man"
and "Bride of Frankenstein,"

that you're just playing

similar Gladys Kravitz
type characters,

like that annoying neighbor

who's just not gonna
leave it alone.

[Una screaming]

- Whoa, look!
Milady, he's alive!

- James Whale gave them the
freedom to be who they are

because he knew who
they were inside,

and thus, was able to
bring out something in them

that they were safe to express,

which they could not ever
do with any other director.

- It is interesting
to think, Henry,

that once upon a time,
we should have been burnt

at the stake as wizards
for this experiment.

- Whale got much more dangerous

and aggressive and
transformative,

and he created a really,
really queer female protagonist

who is basically saying,

"I don't want that guy
that you made for me."

[Bride screaming]

- Her entire reason for
existence is to be the mate of,

you know, the man
they've created

and does not, not interested,

would rather not, thank you.

We'll pass.

- She was created for him and
she was like, no thank you.

- I don't think so.

I don't want him. No!

- No, that's not happening.

- Absolutely not.
Who is this man?

- I wanna have control
of my own body.

I wanna have control
of my own sexuality,

and I wanna go find
who I wanna find.

- "Bride of Frankenstein"
is like a peak bad bitch.

- She was able to
just be like, mm-mm.

I was really struck by that

'cause it just didn't
occur to me that you could,

that you could say, no.

- I mean I think it's
important for all women to see,

like "No" is a
complete sentence.

- There's no like
learning curve for her.

There's no section of the story

where you see her like
try to make it work.

No, she just wakes up and
she is like, absolutely not.

- You have created
life, and I'm alive,

which means that I have a mind
of my own and my own ideas

about what I would like to do,

and isn't that
fucking terrifying?

- She was like, I
don't even want him.

- We don't know what
her preference was

but we know it wasn't him.

- It was just a singular
"No" in a long line of no's

that I needed to be
able to hear women say

before I could fully
embrace my own "No."

[slow music]

[Frankenstein whimpering]

[Bride screaming]

- So many times these
monsters get agency

and they have power
like queer people,

but in the end,
they have to die,

and in fact, they
often kill themselves.

- He pushes Frankenstein

and his bride out of
the castle and says,

- Go. You live.

Go.

[tense music]

You'll stay.

- We belong dead.

- We belong dead.

[Bride hissing]

[dramatic music]

- He doesn't just take
the bride with him.

He takes Pretorius with him

'cause he knows that they're
all unnatural together.

It's glorious. [laughs]

[bombs exploding]
[upbeat dramatic music]

- What he was able to
bring in terms of queerness

to that film is remarkable

because the film is
absolutely a chronicle

of queer life in an odd way

because of these different
archetypal characters.

It's about the creation and
the demise of the monster,

but also, it's
looking at the demise

of the acceptance of gay life
as it was known in Hollywood.

It's the culmination
of of Whale's expertise

and his life's work,

even though he had no idea

that this was really the
beginning of the end for him.

[dramatic music]

- As his longtime partner
David Lewis would later put it,

you know, he never shouted
it from the rooftops,

but he was never in
the closet either.

- Everybody knew about him and
he was not, he didn't hide.

He didn't have a double life.

He didn't have a wife and
a bunch of kids as a cover.

He lived a gay life.

- It depends on who you ask

whether or not Whale's queerness
was an issue in his career.

Certainly, if you
look at, you know,

Bill Condon's "Gods
and Monsters,"

he was too much
for the industry.

They couldn't deal with him,

and that's sort of why
he gets pushed aside.

But there are other people
who were his contemporaries

who were like, "No, he made
some movies that bombed

and just kind of fell out
of favor with the studio."

So, you know, it's
one of those things

where historians
can't really agree.

I would certainly say, they
would probably all agree

that his being, you know,

unapologetically out in the
1940s was probably not seen

as a career boost.

[chiming music]

- He managed to become
a major league director

in a town that was, on the
face of it, totally homophobic.

- He did commit suicide.

Yet, in his suicide
note, he said,

- [James] To all I love,
do not grieve for me.

My nerves are shot.

And for the last year, I've
been in agony day and night.

I've had a wonderful
life, but it is over.

So, please forgive
me, all those I love,

and may God forgive me too.

Goodbye, and thank
you for all your love.

I must have peace, Jimmy.

[contemplative music]

- [Interviewer] Mr. Hitchcock,

why do you always
make mystery film?

- Well, life is a big
mystery. Isn't it?

It always has been.

I think people are
intrigued by mystery

to find out about things they
don't know anything about.

That's a mystery.

[dramatic music]

- [Norman] Mother? Oh God!

Mother! Blood, blood.

[chiming music]

- For queer people
who get so little

of ourselves reflected
back to us by culture,

we tend to pick up on
the things that we get.

[chiming music]

Especially those
powerful images,

and Hitchcock, if nothing else,

he knew how to create a
powerful image that would live

in your heart and soul.

[creepy music]

In a Hitchcock movie,

no image is sort of
just there by accident.

Every image is there
specifically, almost like using,

you know, words in a sentence.

[creepy music]

Hitchcock's filmmaking feels
queer in a number of ways.

He has an eye for feminine
detail that is unique to him

as a filmmaker.

He uses a lot of female
artifacts, things that, frankly,

male directors would normally
not even really notice

or pick up on or think
to isolate in a closeup

to tell their story.

- It's interesting with Hitchcock
because I think he was,

[thunder rumbling]

wrestling with both an
awe and a hatred of women

and expressions of femininity,

along with a very modern desire

to represent a lot of
different kinds of characters

who also might be queer.

- That's the most thrilling
compliment I ever got.

- For me, one of the
interesting parallels

to queer Hollywood was
queer Britain in the 1920s,

where cinema was bursting

with all kinds of
queer inspiration,

and Alfred Hitchcock
was part of that world.

He worked with a
lot of queer talent,

going back to Ivor
Novello with "The Lodger."

Ivor Novello was a matinee
idol in early cinema.

Hitchcock knew exactly
what he was doing

when he cast Novello.

And he knew exactly
what he was doing

when he cast Charles
Laughton in "Jamaica Inn."

- See, Lady Beston,
that's why he stays here

and never comes
to London anymore.

He keeps a girl
here, the monster.

- There she is,

my exquisite Nancy.

[horse neighing]

- Laughton was a
brilliant, brilliant actor

who was a very conflicted man.

- She was going to
tell you about me.

I didn't like that.

- You know Charles Laughton,

married for a very long
time to to Elsa Lanchester,

tormented by his bisexuality,

if not his homosexuality.

He has a certain famous,

in Hitchcock adaptation of
du Maurier's "Jamaica Inn."

- [Humphrey] Please be still.

[tense music]

- [Alonso] In his era,

no other filmmaker had
queer representation

like Alfred Hitchcock.

- We want a private
suite with a bath.

- Facing the mountain.

- And a shower, of course.

- Hot and cold.

- And a private
thingummy if you got one.

- Well, I'm sorry gentleman,

the only things I've
got is the maid room.

- What?
- The maid room?

- Well, don't get excited.
I'll remove the maid out.

- Yes, I should think so.

- What?

- Caldicott and Charters

in "The Lady Vanishes"
are not interested

in any women in the picture.

[mischievous music]

[paper rustling]

What's really important about
Caldicott and Charters is

that they're not the villains,
they're just in the story.

- Lock the door.

- Hello?
- Oh!

- [Bryan] Another example
is the character of Isobel

in "Suspicion."

- I was completely fascinated
by the way your villain,

- My villain?

My hero, you mean.

I always think of my
murderers as my heroes.

- She has a lover

and it's treated in a way
that's very matter of fact.

- Think of it.

This very minute,

there are hundreds of people
who've committed murder

and they're walking
about freely.

- [Bryan] And let's not forget
Mrs. Bundy in "The Birds."

- Ornithology happens
to be my avocation.

Birds are not aggressive
creatures, miss.

They bring beauty
into the world.

It is mankind-

- Sam? Three Southern
Fried Chicken.

- Hitchcock also operates
in that brand of,

homophobia might be putting
two strong a point on it,

but definitely a distrust and
an unease about queerness.

- Hitchcock clearly
had a a real interest

in these male characters
who were outside of society.

- And so, you get a
character like Uncle Charlie

in "Shadow of a Doubt."

- Charles is coming.

- Did you say Charles?

- Joseph Cotton is very
much a confirmed bachelor

and is killing these women
who are wealthy widows

who are living off of, you know,

their husband's toil.

[menacing music]

And that just, for some reason,
is greatly offensive to him.

And so, he sets about to
strangle a whole bunch of them.

- And at night, you
sleep your untroubled,

ordinary little sleep filled
with peaceful, stupid dreams.

[classical music]

And I brought you nightmares.

- There is this
notion that gay men,

not only don't want to
have sex with women,

but hate them and
want to kill them,

this notion that
radical misogyny

and homosexuality go hand
in glove, as it were.

- And he has that
wonderful speech

when they're at
the dinner table.

- The cities are full of
women, middle aged widows,

husbands dead, proud of their
jewelry but of nothing else.

Horrible, faded,
fat, greedy women.

- And we hear Theresa
right off screen saying,

"But they're human beings."

- [Theresa] They're alive,
they're human beings.

- [Don] And then
turning to the camera,

- Are they?

- It's not just that these guys
are somehow warped outsiders

of society, they are literal
menaces to the common good.

- [Theresa] Somebody come quick.

Help.

Somebody come quick,
bring some water.

- He got away with putting
these kind of characters in

in a time that you didn't
see gay characters.

- [Phillip] I've heard
nothing but innuendo.

- Call it my woman's
intuition, if you will.

- I think you're jealous.

No, I mean it, and
I'm very touched.

- Hm?

- Leonard?

[gunshot blasting]

- But the gay characters
weren't exactly heroes.

They are mostly villains.

[punch thudding]
[dramatic music]

[man screaming]

[tense music]

- "The Rope" is one of my
favorite Hitchcock movies.

I find that movie interesting,

primarily because of its
screaming gay subtext

that's barely subtext.

I think it's almost text.

- Brandon, how did you feel?

- When?

- During it.

- "Rope," okay,

if you have ever had a
gay threesome and died,

this is the movie for you.

- Now the fun begins.

- It was pretty revolutionary.

It would just be impossible
to not see the gay subtext

if you yourself were a gay
person living at that time,

walking to a movie
theater to see that movie.

It would be
impossible to miss it.

And yet, at the same
time, it's going over,

you know, a lot of
the audience's head's.

- "Rope" is Hitchcock's take

on the Leopold and Loeb killings

and the idea that this gay
couple read too much Nietzsche

and decided they
were ubermensches

and they were just gonna kill
people because they could.

- The Davids of this
world merely occupy space,

which is why he was
the perfect victim

for the perfect murder.

- "Rope" felt like

almost more explicitly
demonizing these gay characters.

- John Dall and Farley Granger,

they are clearly a
gay couple engaged

in a sadomasochistic
relationship.

- I don't think you
appreciate me, Phillip.

- I'm beginning to, Brandon.

- These men have a body in
the middle of their apartment,

in their table during a party.

- Trust you to find a
new use for a chest.

- I hate that movie,
I love that movie,

but I hate that movie because
it makes me so anxious.

It's "The Telltale Heart."

It's the beating of
that hideous heart

underneath the floorboards.

[tense music]

- These two men have
committed a murder,

but it's all set up
like they've had sex.

- Let's stay this
way for a minute.

[case clicking]

- That's Hitchcock
doing what he did,

which is he's winking
at the audience.

- I have never in my life
looked at another man

in the longing way that those
two men look at each other

throughout the whole film.

- You frighten me.

You always have,

from that very first
day in prep school,

part of your charm,
I suppose. [sighs]

- Farley Granger is so like
simultaneously terrified

yet turned on,

and he's completely
under John Dall's thumb.

- Man, I can't!

- You've got to.

- No, he knows,

- Shut up.

- You have a top and
a bottom. You know?

You, the one who's really
driving the train on this one

and the other one who's
like constantly skittish

and nervous, and are
we gonna get caught?

- Brandon, you're going too far.

- Why? What do you mean?

I just thought it'd be nice to
have supper in here on this.

- The queer writers that
Hitchcock worked with

on some of these films

included Thornton Wilder
from "Shadow of a Doubt,"

Patricia Highsmith who wrote
"Strangers on a Train,"

Daphne du Maurier who
wrote "Jamaica Inn,"

"Rebecca," and "The Birds,"

and Arthur Laurents from "Rope."

- Arthur Laurents was one

of those openly gay
Hollywood writers.

Laurents was in a relationship
with Farley Granger

who was a wonderful actor
and a fascinating guy

who lost his virginity
on the same day

to a man and to a woman.

Arthur Laurents
writes the screenplay.

So, he's writing the
part for his lover

to portray this queer man.

- Brandon had a
delightful evening.

Though I had a rotten evening.

- Keep drinking and you'll
have a worse morning.

- Arthur Laurents being an
openly gay screenwriter,

the intricacies of
the relationships

between the three
main characters would

obviously not be lost on him.

- Voice down.

- I hope I didn't upset Phillip.

- But that area was
all about the coding

of the relationships.

It wasn't about
making them explicit.

It was about making
them implicit,

and it was through their actions

that their desires are known,

not necessarily, apparently,
to Jimmy Stewart,

who I don't think he
knew he was playing gay.

Everyone else did
though. [laughs]

- I once thought of
inviting him to join us.

- Why didn't you?
The more the merrier.

- Because he hasn't the nerve.

- Jimmy Stewart,
as the [squeaking]

also possibly queer coded
professor who's a bit of a,

you know, he's kind of a bitch.

- In another moment,

you might have been
strangling each other

instead of the chicken.

- There's no lady on his
arm. I'm just saying.

- He's got it.

He's got it!

He knows.

He knows. He knows.

- All right. Easy.
- He knows.

- I'll take care of it.

- No you won't.

I'd just as soon
kill you as kill him.

- One way to read "Rope"
is overtly homophobic.

Another way to read it is
that it's not homosexuality

but a homophobic society that's
turning men into monsters.

[metal clattering]
- No.

- I'm thinking the guy
in the trunk is gay too,

but you know, we don't know.

- [Announcer] It's
history, bizarre.

It's amazing.
- Stick 'em up.

Bang. Bang.

[balloon popping]
[mischievous music]

- When I think of Hitchcock's
representation of queerness,

I think of "Strangers
on a Train."

- Guy?

[creepy music]

Guy?

Over here, Guy.

- Hitchcock worked with
women like Daphne du Maurier

and Patricia Highsmith

who were both gay as
a box of bird seed.

- Want to hear one of my
ideas for a perfect murder?

- What's interesting
about Patricia Highsmith

and her penchant for writing

about villainous and violent
and homicidal homosexuals,

in the most famous works,

which would be "The
Talented Mr. Ripley,"

as well as "Strangers
on a Train,"

these men are desperate
to take the identity

of the object of their desire.

- It must be pretty
exciting to be so important.

- A tennis player
isn't so important.

- Oh, but people who do
things are important.

Now, me, I never
seem to do anything.

- It's about wanting to
completely possess someone.

- Two fellows meet
accidentally, like you and me,

no connection
between them at all.

Never saw each other before.

Each one has somebody that
he'd like to get rid of.

- If you're a
Republican politician,

you know what's gay about
"Strangers on a Train."

[mischievous music]

There is tapping. There's looks.

It's, again, not explicit,

but they both know what
they're talking about.

- Oh, we do talk the
same language, don't we?

- Well sure, Bruno. We
talk the same language.

- I think, if you think
about Patricia Highsmith,

it's like these
thrillers that she wrote,

you know, thinking about
these queer characters

as these sort of like
very depraved figures,

like makes sense when
you think about her own,

like her own sort
of self hatred.

- Oh.
- Is your name Miriam?

- Why, yes.

What are you,

- She was a lesbian who
did not wanna be a lesbian.

She was like a homophobic,
self-hating lesbian,

and she would try
to have sex with men

and then be like, [groans]
sex with men is terrible.

[upbeat carnival music]

- When it comes to
queer characters,

I wanna say he's a product
of his age, you know?

There's so much Freud
floating around.

There's so many overbearing
mommies, you know,

who have turned their sons

into these kind of like
whipped queer dogs.

- Now, you haven't been
doing anything foolish.

- [Don] Whether it is Bruno
in "Strangers on a Train"

or Norman Bates,

they are mama's boys
who are not just queer

but also homicidal to boot.

[dramatic music]
[flames crackling]

[bomb exploding]

- As a queer filmmaker

who was in the closet
for a very long time

and struggled with
naming my own identity,

I always related with
Daphne du Maurier's work.

- I have never known
birds of different species

to flock together.

The very concept
is unimaginable.

Why? If that happened, we
wouldn't have a chance.

[steady music]

- Daphne du Maurier, she often,

when speaking about
her own gender,

talked about feeling
like deep down inside

in this box was her true
gender and that it was a boy

and that it wasn't something
that she could always be,

but it was something
that was always there.

- Who are you?

What are you?

- Whether we're talking
about Melanie in "The Birds"

or the second Mrs. de
Winter in "Rebecca,"

they have this idea
of who they should be

or who they would like to be

and it doesn't match
up with who they are.

- I feel so uncomfortable.

I try my best every day,

but it's very difficult with
people looking me up and down

as if I were a prize cow.

- Something I
really identify with

in Daphne du Maurier's work,
on a very personal level,

I can understand this deep
pain behind hiding who you are.

And yet, at the same time,

you're essentially telling
everybody very clearly

the type of prison that you
feel like you found yourself in.

- This is Mrs. Danvers.

- How do you do?

- How do you do?

- You know, you have this like
legendary bitch, "Rebecca."

Her absence was a blessing

to everyone except Mrs. Danvers

who was completely and
utterly obsessed with her.

- Did you ever see
anything so delicate?

- She's without a
doubt a big old dyke.

She is so in love with Rebecca.

It's so obvious, and it
becomes really obvious

in the panty scene.

- She's gonna show
you how sheer it is.

She's gonna be like, "Look."

- You can see my hand.

- I'm just gonna let you know
that I could see everything.

And not only that,

I'm gonna make it just
like a tiny bit hotter

and let you know that
nuns made these drawers.

[dramatic music]

- It's a lovely room, isn't it?

Loveliest room you've ever seen.

Everything is kept just as
Mrs. de Winter liked it.

- Mrs. Danvers in "Rebecca" is

like the ultimate
service bottom.

- I really do think that
she was a service top.

- Mrs. Danvers was
definitely a service bottom,

in my opinion.

- Mrs. Danvers is a top.

- A service bottom.

Don't you think?

- I think Mrs. Danvers
is a service top.

- Because she liked
to be in the shadows.

She liked to be like
around the blinds.

- I mean, I don't even know
why there's a discussion

on this point.

- It is very much DS,
dominant, submissive,

- Total top.

She might be a servant,
but that was a, that,

oh my God.

- But again, it depends how
you define top and bottom,

doesn't it?

So, that's a trick question.

[steady music]

- You know what I think?

We're all in our private
traps, clamped in them,

and none of us can ever get out.

We scratch and and claw
but only at the air,

only at each other,
and for all of it,

we never budge an inch.

[scary music]

I was born in mine.

[tense music]
[raindrops splattering]

- If you were to look at the
sort of killer cross dresser

or the murderous man
in a dress type trope,

Hitchcock was not the
first one to do it.

But "Psycho" is certainly like
the best known example of it.

- There are a lot of movies
about men who dress up as women

and use that as a
way to gain entry

to spaces that women
are traditionally in.

Famously, you have Norman Bates

in Marion Crane's
bathroom in "Psycho,"

which is kind of the original
trans bathroom panic.

[shower rod squeaking]
[scary music]

[Marion screaming]
- Hitchcock captured

the essence of female as victim.

[creepy music]
[Marion screaming]

He was able to raise that
ideal to such a height.

[creepy music]

I mean half the country
stopped showering.

[show curtain rings clicking]

[body thudding]

- One of the scariest
things about "Psycho,"

before we get to
the shower scene,

is Marion Crane's
moral ambiguity.

This is something that
is so truly upsetting

at the time in 1960,

that he very overtly
begins the film with her

in her black brassiere.

He is laying bare the
fact that this is a woman

who is essentially, quote,
"Asking for trouble."

- What are you
running away from?

- [Osgood] The parlor
scene, it's so magnetic.

It's like one of the more
magnetic scenes in movie history.

- Wouldn't it be better
if you put her someplace?

- You mean an institution?

- She's leaning in physically
to the conversation,

kind of trying to
figure this guy out.

And I think, it feels
like what she's trying

to figure out is,

why is this guy not
trying to fuck me?

[creepy music]

- We all go a little
mad sometimes.

Haven't you?

- When you watch
Hitchcock films,

sexuality is something

that comes up for the lead
characters almost always.

Like sometimes, it's a
little bit more subtextual,

but with something
like "Psycho,"

it feels like he is really
inviting the audience

to look at a particular
part of life, i.e. sex,

and how that's connected to
morals, ethics, identity,

anything else that
you hold dear.

[tense music]

- Hitchcock's legacy and
filmography are complicated.

He's had some really
interesting women characters,

but he also famously said that
we should torture the women

to create good entertainment.

[rain splattering]

- It makes sense that
some of the characters

that we villainize

in horror movies are the
products of suppression.

If you are treated as a
pathology, as a sickness,

then sickness is
what you become.

[tense music]

- [Michael] When I
see Anthony Perkins

in a movie like "Psycho,"

- I've caused you some trouble.

- No.

Mother, my mother,

what is a phrase?

She isn't quite herself today.

- The character
of Norman Bates is

a queer man playing a queer man.

- [Norman] Please, mother.

- [Mother] No, I will not
hide in the fruit cellar.

You think I'm fruity, huh?

- There's a different
kind of connection

between a mother and her gay son

and you really see
Hitchcock kind of exploiting

that in "Psycho"

without really having to
say much else about him.

We all kind of pick up
on, "Oh, that's why."

- Well, a a boy's best
friend is his mother.

- That was, in
Hitchcock's design,

essential that Norman be my dad.

[bright music]

- Are you alone?

[bright music]

♪ I've got a date with the
prettiest girl in school ♪

- It was very
comfortable for my father

to be an All
American straight kid

who could headline movies
in, and movie musicals.

That was easy.

- I don't want to die.

I don't know if I could
kill anyone if I tried.

- He was a young,
teenage heart throb.

He was always kind
of a little off

and that was what made
people interested, I think.

- And you're killing me. You've
been killing me for years.

Yes, you have,
and it's too much.

- He went to acting as a way
to be anything but himself.

- You are like all the
beautiful things in this wood.

- He was tender and warm

and everybody wanted
to take him home.

And then he did "Psycho."

Norman Bates changed Anthony
Perkins' life forever.

- Gee, I'm sorry I didn't
hear you in all this rain.

- "Psycho" appears, and
it's like there's no mask.

You're playing your
own internal stuff.

There's no remove.

- Did she arrive with anyone?

- No.

- Did you spend
the night with her?

- No.

- He is giving
you that character

in every twitch and in every
nervous, jittery, candy eating,

you know, thing that he's doing.

Hitchcock is cannily,
and maybe cruelly,

finding all the
Anthony Perkins parts

of Norman Bates and vice versa.

That just becomes a thing
that you just don't shake.

- The fact that, yet
again, in his career,

Hitchcock cast a
closeted gay actor

to play the monster male
figure in his movie,

I think is telling.

It was clearly a
pattern in his career.

[water bubbling]

- Hitchcock knew that my
father was queer and it,

that was sort of a motivator
in hiring him for the part.

Hitchcock was too
much of a trickster

and a little imp to not want
to add that really vital edge.

- Wife's taking a nap,

and I never can keep
quiet enough for her,

so, I just thought I'd
look you up and talk.

- The John Gavin scenes,
for me, with my dad are,

it's like my dad against
his old, discarded itself.

- You look frightened.

Have I been saying
something frightening?

- I don't know what
you've been saying.

- Hitchcock was
probably impish enough

to kind of really lean into that

and hire Gavin to
mop the floor with.

Norman couldn't
possibly stop him.

[menacing music]

And of course, he's wrong.

- He imbues Norman Bates
with colors and flavors

that are above and beyond
what's there on the page,

that I as a gay man who,

you know, spent some, at least,

thankfully not my whole
life, but you know,

some of my adolescence
certainly in the closet,

can really relate to.

I was a mama's
boy too. You know?

- Sometimes, when she
talks to me like that,

I feel I'd like to go
up there and curse her

and leave her forever
or at least a fire.

But I know I can't.

- Anthony Perkins is
really channeling the pain

of not being able to
express his queerness.

And that's why we remember it

as such a powerhouse performance

because it really is
somebody's real lived pain.

- So, the narrative,
in my house,

was "Psycho" had been
too right for my dad

and therefore, was the end
of him as an actor, really.

It was like his coming out and
his funeral at the same time.

In one swift move, the whole,

the whole jig was up.

"Psycho" was no good for him.

It was too good,

it was too good, and
therefore, no good.

It had damaged my
father's career

because now no one could
see him as anything else.

There was no freedom in 1960
to say, "Oh, and by the way,

the reason why I'm so
great in this role,

I'm just like that."

If my father had made "Psycho"

and then somehow miraculously
had been allowed to come out

and had said,
"Look, you fuckers,

out there in the audience
who ate that up."

I mean, you eat it up,

and what you're eating
up is truth, right?

You ate up Tony Perkins's truth

and he's got a lot more of that.

Like, he's got a lot of that.

He's a human being. You know?

That could have been mined in
a way that just couldn't be.

Do you know?

There just, there,
it just wasn't,

there wasn't an outlet for that.

[menacing music]

[chains jingling]
[scary music]

- It was perhaps inevitable
that, at some point,

he would step back into
the role for "Psycho II."

- [Narrator] It's
22 years later,

and Norman Bates is coming home.

Psycho II.
[scary music]

- It felt good to see him going

into a packed,
huge movie theater.

We toured the world,

and he would get up there
and talk before the movie,

and people were going nuts.

And so, it's like your dad's
Paul McCartney for 10 minutes.

- I just moved back here
after being many years away,

and I forgot to
bring any cutlery.

- And it was like, this is good.

This seems good. This seems
like this is all working.

[woman screaming]

[creepy music]

And then there was the
"People" magazine cover,

[thunder rumbling]

which basically said,

remember Tony Perkins who's
gay and played a mama's boy,

a killer who dressed
up like a woman?

Remember all that?
It's happening again.

That cover was,

I saw that as a kid.

There's no way that
I didn't get that

and then be fed a very
different narrative.

- We know all about
that. Don't we, Norman?

- And then "Psycho III"
was sort of triply,

sorry, interesting,

[upbeat tense music]

because he was authoring
this as the director.

He was, it was
his point of view.

"Psycho III" is like
this dirty movie.

- [Norman] She can't help it.

She can't help the
things she does.

- This was the dawning of
like, "Oh my dad's like,

like sex is like a
big thing for him."

There's no mistake about
how my dad is looking

at Jeff Fahey.

If Norman Bates could make
a movie about Norman Bates

as an older guy,

it'd probably be
really fucking dirty,

and good for him.

- You did a nice
job on her, Norman,

fresh as the day
she was croaked.

- It was so authentic, and
all of a sudden my dad,

who had been completely
inauthentic with me

for so long was
all of a sudden now

on a big screen being authentic.

- The past? It's
never really past.

It stays with me all the time,

and no matter how hard I try,

I can't really escape.

It's always there,

throbbing inside you.

- I don't know, it's almost
on the nose, you know?

How sad it is and how much
he was able to tap into

that energy in his film roles,

because he really did live it.

- For many years, our
next guest was one

of Hollywood's most
confirmed bachelors,

but a talented young
photographer has changed all of that.

Here are Mr. and
Mrs. Tony Perkins.

Tony Perkins and Berry Berenson.

- Do you know, like I think

my mom and dad's story
is a genuine one.

They loved each other for real

and they had a for real
sexual relationship.

- Was he anything like you had
imagined having seen him in,

on the screen and having
liked him on the screen?

- Everything and more. Yeah.

- Really?
- Yeah,

definitely. [laughs]

- That's great, let's
hear about the more,

'cause we know the abstract.

[group laughing]

- He needed to be hidden,
and so, she was gonna help.

And I don't think that, until
it became literally fatal,

I think she probably
would've done it forever.

- AIDS has claimed another
Hollywood star, Anthony Perkins.

Perkins, who was 60 years old,

did not discuss his
disease publicly.

He died in his Hollywood
home this weekend

with his wife and
two sons by his side.

[slow music]

- The story of how he
contracted HIV was made up.

I mean, my parents made it up.

It was a blood transfusion.

He'd had a surgery
on his face to get,

a little thing had been removed,

and they had used
some bad blood.

We were parrying reality
and choosing the lie.

And it's kind of a lot to untie.

I think we do it for love.

If my mom was gonna be
captain of the love team

and that was the route
she was charting for us,

then let's do it.

You know? Good.

That's love.

And it is love. It is.

Protecting somebody is love

and it just has other
things attached to it.

My dad was a really good dad.

He was a complete original.

He introduced a
significant wrinkle

into my understanding
of how the world works.

And you know, that's,

in a way, that's a privilege.

- Thank you.

- Thank you, Norman.

[upbeat electronic music]

♪ Hey there, it's really
nice to meet you ♪

♪ I've known you for a while ♪

♪ I'm not sure if
you see through ♪

♪ The intents of my smile ♪

♪ I think you might be unaware ♪

♪ 'Cause I look,
I've got a stare ♪

♪ And you might not even care ♪

♪ But you can get it ♪

♪ Let me know ♪

♪ Come and get it
if you want it ♪

♪ 'Cause you know that
you can get some ♪

♪ If you want it,
you can get it ♪

♪ 'Cause I got it,
come and have some ♪

♪ You can get it ♪

♪ I see you looking
at the night ♪

♪ Maybe just one night ♪

♪ You let me know
if it's night ♪

♪ 'Cause you can get it ♪

♪ I'd much rather
'cause you don't know ♪

♪ That's not really my style ♪

♪ But if you're feeling,
come around now ♪

♪ You can get it ♪

♪ Just let me know ♪

♪ Come and get it
if you want it ♪

♪ 'Cause you know that
you can get some ♪

♪ Get you some of this ♪

♪ If you want it,
you can get it ♪

♪ 'Cause I got it,
come and have some ♪

♪ Trying to help you out ♪

♪ You can get it ♪

♪ Get some of this ooh, ah, ah ♪

♪ Get some of this ah ♪

♪ Get some of this ooh, ah, ah ♪

♪ Get some of this ♪

♪ So if you're ever
feeling, you know ♪

♪ The slightest bit thirsty ♪

♪ You can get a sip ♪

♪ I can take you to a disco,
anyplace that you wanna go ♪

♪ I'm just trying
to let you know ♪

♪ You can get it ♪

♪ We can kick it
in the backroom ♪

♪ Or dance under
the floorboard ♪

♪ Anything that you want to ♪

♪ 'Cause you can get it ♪

♪ If you feel like
you deserve a treat ♪

♪ Well, I can be
that treat, baby ♪

♪ Or I can be the meal ♪

♪ Go ahead and
take a bite of me ♪

♪ Take a big old bite, sugar ♪

♪ Just let me know ♪

♪ Oh ♪

♪ Come and get it
if you want it ♪

♪ 'Cause you know that
you can get some ♪

♪ Get some of this ♪

♪ If you want it,
you can get it ♪

♪ 'Cause I got it,
come and have some ♪

♪ Trying to help you out ♪

♪ You can get it ♪

[upbeat electronic music]

♪ Let me know ♪

[rocks clattering]
[bird cawing]