Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: {40}{160}Downloaded From www.AllSubs.org {1792}{1869}The life of a playwright is tough. {1887}{1959}It's not easy,|as some people seem to think. {1977}{2067}You work hard writing plays,|and nobody puts them on. {2088}{2161}You take up other lines of work|to try to make a living... {2178}{2226}I became an actor... {2237}{2292}...and people don't hire you. {2307}{2407}So you just spend your days|doing the errands of your trade. {2457}{2514}Today I'd had to be up|by 10.:00 in the morning... {2529}{2581}...to make some|important phone calls. {2595}{2700}Then I'd gone to the stationery store|to buy envelopes. Then to the Xerox shop. {2727}{2774}There were dozens of things to do. {2957}{3022}By 5.:00 I'd finally made it|to the post office... {3038}{3098}...and mailed off|several copies of my plays... {3113}{3171}...meanwhile checking constantly|with my answering service... {3185}{3268}...to see if my agent|had called with any acting work. {3286}{3374}In the morning, the mailbox|had just been stuffed with bills. {3394}{3459}What was I supposed to do?|How was I supposed to pay them? {3476}{3551}After all, I was already doing my best. {3616}{3676}I've lived in this city all my life. {3692}{3754}I grew up on the Upper East Side... {3770}{3867}...and when I was 10 years old|I was rich, I was an aristocrat... {3889}{3976}...riding around in taxis,|surrounded by comfort... {3997}{4072}...and all I thought about|was art and music. {4090}{4225}Now I'm 36,|and all I think about is money. {5142}{5189}It was now 7.:00... {5202}{5292}...and I would have liked nothing better than|to go home and have my girlfriend Debby... {5312}{5382}...cook me a nice, delicious dinner. {5400}{5462}But for the last several years|our financial circumstances... {5478}{5558}...have forced Debby to work|three nights a week as a waitress. {5576}{5654}After all, somebody had to|bring in a little money. {5676}{5743}So I was on my own. {5760}{5855}But the worst thing of all was that I'd been|trapped by an odd series of circumstances... {5876}{5994}...into agreeing to have dinner|with a man I'd been avoiding literally for years. {6020}{6068}His name was Andr� Gregory. {6080}{6160}At one time he'd been|a very close friend of mine... {6179}{6249}...as well as my most valued colleague|in the theater. {6266}{6324}In fact, he was the man|who had first discovered me... {6337}{6420}...and put one of my plays|on the professional stage. {6439}{6534}When I'd known Andr�, he'd been at the height|ofhis career as a theater director. {6557}{6629}The amazing work he did with his company,|the Manhattan Project... {6647}{6724}...had just stunned audiences|throughout the world. {6781}{6854}But then something|had happened to Andr�. {6871}{6946}He dropped out of the theater.|He sort of disappeared. {6964}{7039}For months at a time, his family seemed|only to know that he was traveling... {7057}{7120}...in some odd place like Tibet... {7135}{7203}...which was really weird|because he loved his wife and children. {7219}{7284}He never used to like|to leave home at all. {7300}{7385}Or else you'd hear that someone had met him|at a party and he'd been telling people... {7404}{7489}...that he talked with trees|or something like that. {7510}{7597}Obviously, something terrible|had happened to Andr�. {7810}{7870}The whole idea of meeting him|made me very nervous. {7884}{7939}I mean, I really wasn't up|for that sort of thing. {7954}{8049}I had problems of my own.|I mean, I couldn't help Andr�. {8070}{8123}Was I supposed to be a doctor, or what? {8235}{8282}- Hello.|- Hello. {8337}{8384}- Here you go.|- Thank you. {8523}{8625}- Yes, sir.|- Ah, sir, my name is Wallace Shawn. {8649}{8711}I'm expected at the table|of Andr� Gregory. {8799}{8849}That table will be a moment, sir. {8861}{8924}If you like,|you may have a drink at the bar. {9502}{9577}- Good evening, sir.|- Uh, could I have a club soda, please? {9596}{9671}I'm sorry, sir.|We only serve Source de Pavilion. {9688}{9743}Oh, that'd be fine, thank you. {10201}{10283}When I'd called Andr�, and he'd suggested|that we meet in this particular restaurant... {10303}{10410}I'd been rather surprised, because|Andr�'s taste used to be very ascetic... {10435}{10515}...even though people have always known|that he had some money somewhere. {10533}{10621}I mean, how the hell else could he have|been flying off to Asia and so on... {10641}{10711}...and still have been supporting his family? {10779}{10867}The reason I was meeting Andr� was that|an acquaintance of mine, George Grassfield... {10887}{10982}...had called me|and just insisted that I had to see him. {11005}{11107}Apparently, George had been walking his dog|in an odd section of town the night before... {11130}{11180}...and he'd suddenly come upon Andr�... {11193}{11281}...leaning against a crumbling old building|and sobbing. {11301}{11364}Andr� had explained to George|that he'd just been watching... {11379}{11439}...the Ingmar Bergman movie|Autumn Sonata... {11454}{11501}...about 25 blocks away... {11514}{11599}...and he'd been seized|by a fit of ungovernable crying... {11622}{11694}...when the character played|by Ingrid Bergman had said... {11714}{11829}"I could always live in my art,|but never in my life. " {12012}{12077}Wallyl... {12092}{12155}- Wow.|- My God. {12275}{12337}I remember, when I first|started working with Andr�'s company... {12353}{12448}I couldn't get over the way the actors|would hug when they greeted each other. {12470}{12548}"Wow. Now I'm really in the theater, "|I thought. {12565}{12618}Well, you look terrific. {12635}{12702}Well, I feel terrible. {12781}{12831}Good evening, sir.|Nice to see you again. {12845}{12927}Thank you. Good evening.|Ah, I think I'll have a spritzer, if I could. {12947}{12994}- Yes, sir.|- Thank you. {13055}{13107}I was feeling incredibly nervous. {13121}{13181}I wasn't sure I could stick through|an entire meal with him. {13195}{13235}Great. {13246}{13293}So we talked about this and that. {13306}{13363}He told me a few things|aboutJerzy Grotowski... {13378}{13425}...the great Polish theater director... {13438}{13515}...who was a friend and almost like|a kind of a guru of Andr�'s. {13534}{13594}He'd also dropped out of the theater. {13608}{13686}Grotowski was a pretty|unusual character himself. {13704}{13799}At one time, he'd been quite fat, then he'd|lost an incredible amount of weight... {13822}{13879}...and become very thin|and grown a beard. {13894}{13964}- Your table is ready, if you feel like sitting down.|- Oh. {13980}{14028}- Oh.|- Yes. Thank you. {14268}{14348}I was beginning to realize|that the only way to make this evening bearable... {14367}{14437}...would be to ask Andr�|a few questions. {14454}{14524}Asking questions always relaxes me. {14541}{14598}In fact, I sometimes think|that my secret profession... {14613}{14690}...is that I'm a private investigator,|a detective. {14709}{14776}I always enjoy finding out about people. {14795}{14923}Even if they're in absolute agony,|I always find it very... interesting. {14993}{15091}- By the way, is he still thin?|- What? {15113}{15203}Grotowski. Is he still thin? {15224}{15276}Oh. Absolutely. {15398}{15473}Oh, waiter?|Uh, I think we can do without this. {15491}{15549}- Yes, sir.|- Thank you. {15563}{15611}What about this one? {15626}{15703}Seven swimming shrimp. {15790}{15840}- Ready for your order?|- Ah, yes. {15854}{15924}Uh, the Galuska...|How... How do you prepare that? {15940}{16000}Andr� seemed|to know an awful lot about the menu. {16016}{16076}- Dumpling with raisins, blanched almonds.|- I didn't understand a word of it. {16090}{16143}- Very good, I think.|- Hmm. {16156}{16221}No, I... I think I'll have|the Cailles aux Raisin, the quail. {16237}{16297}- Very good.|- Oh, quails! I'll have that as well. {16312}{16360}- Two. -|Great. - Great! {16372}{16440}And then I think, to begin with,|the Terrine de Poissons. {16456}{16504}- Yes.|- What is that? {16516}{16596}Uh, it's a sort of p�te...|light, made of fish. {16615}{16687}- Does it have bones in it?|- No bones. {16705}{16757}Perfectly safe. {16773}{16888}Well, um...What is|the, um, Bramborov� Pol�vka? {16915}{17012}It's a potato soup.|It's quite delicious. {17035}{17087}Oh, well, that's great.|I'll have that. {17103}{17161}- Thank you very kindly.|- Thank you very much. {17259}{17307}Well. {17349}{17399}When was the last time|that we saw each other? {17412}{17479}So we talked for a while|about my writing and my acting... {17496}{17543}...and about my girlfriend, Debby. {17556}{17651}And we talked about his wife, Chiquita,|and his two children, Nicolas and Marina. {17673}{17728}And I'd stayed back in New York. {17744}{17827}Finally, I got around to asking him|what he'd been up to in the last few years. {17846}{17894}Oh, God. I'm just dying to hear it. {17906}{17949}- Really?|- Really. {17960}{18030}At first, he seemed|a little reluctant to go into it... {18048}{18138}...so I just kept asking,|and finally he started to answer. {18158}{18223}...conference|on paratheatrical work then. {18240}{18335}And, uh, this must have been|about five years ago... {18356}{18469}...and, uh, Grotowski and I were walking|along Fifth Avenue and we were talking. {18494}{18582}You see, he'd invited me to come|to teach that summer in Poland. {18602}{18690}You know, to teach a workshop|to actors and directors and whatever. {18710}{18820}And I had told him that I didn't want to come,|because, really, I had nothing left to teach. {18845}{18905}I had nothing left to say.|I didn't know anything. {18919}{18969}I couldn't teach anything. {18983}{19038}Exercises meant nothing to me anymore. {19051}{19109}Working on scenes from plays|seemed ridiculous. {19123}{19213}I - I didn't know what to do.|I mean, I just couldn't do it. {19235}{19337}So he said, " Why don't you tell me anything|you'd like to have if you did a workshop for me. {19360}{19442}No matter how outrageous.|And maybe I can give it to you. " {19462}{19542}So I said,|"Well, if you could give me... {19561}{19634}"40 Jewish women who speak|neither English nor French... {19651}{19731}"either women who've been in the theater|for a long time and want to leave it... {19750}{19797}"but don't know why... {19810}{19890}"or young women who love the theater,|but have never seen a theater they could love. {19908}{19968}"And if these women could play|the trumpet or the harp... {19984}{20031}...and if I could work in a forest, I'd come. " {20088}{20156}A week later, or two weeks later,|he called me from Poland. {20172}{20255}And he said, " Well, 40 Jewish women...|that's a little hard to find. " {20274}{20374}But he said, " I do have 40 women.|They all pretty much fit the definition. " {20397}{20457}And he said, " I also have|some very interesting men... {20472}{20522}"but you don't have to work with them. {20535}{20607}"These are all people who have in common|the fact that they're questioning the theater. {20625}{20700}"They don't all play the trumpet or the harp,|but they all play a musical instrument. {20718}{20771}And none of them speak English. " {20783}{20833}And he'd found me a forest, Wally. {20847}{20954}And the only inhabitants of this forest|were some wild boar and a hermit. {20979}{21026}So that was an offer I couldn't refuse. {21039}{21086}I had to go. {21099}{21196}So, I went to Poland, and it was this|wonderful group of young men and women. {21219}{21294}And the forest he had found us|was absolutely magical. {21311}{21359}You know, it was a huge forest. {21371}{21419}I mean, the trees were so large... {21431}{21541}...that four or five people linking their arms|couldn't get their arms around the trees. {21566}{21653}So we were camped out beside|the ruins of this tiny little castle... {21674}{21784}...and we would eat around this great stone slab|that served as a sort of a table. {21808}{21886}And our schedule was that usually|we'd start work around sunset... {21904}{21977}...and then generally we'd work|until about 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning. {21994}{22054}And then, because the Poles|love to sing and dance... {22070}{22150}...we'd sing and dance until about|10:00 or 11:00 in the morning. {22168}{22283}And then we'd have our food, which|was generally bread,jam, cheese and tea. {22310}{22392}And then we'd sleep|from around noon to sunset. {22450}{22500}Now, technically, of course... {22513}{22573}Technically, the situation|is a very interesting one... {22588}{22658}...because if you find yourself in a forest|with a group of 40 people... {22675}{22765}...who don't speak your language,|then all your moorings are gone. {22789}{22836}What do you mean exactly? {22849}{22916}Well, what we'd do|is just sit there and wait... {22933}{23013}...for someone to have|an impulse to do something. {23031}{23111}Now, in a way that's... That's something|like a theatrical improvisation. {23131}{23206}I mean, you know, if you were a director|working on a play by Chekhov... {23223}{23303}...you might have the actors playing|the mother, the son and the uncle... {23323}{23410}...all sit around in a room and do|a made-up scene that isn't in the play. {23431}{23478}For instance, you might say to them... {23490}{23572}"All right. Let's say that it's a rainy|Sunday afternoon on Sorin's estate... {23592}{23647}...and you're all trapped|in the drawing room together. " {23661}{23711}And then everyone would improvise... {23724}{23831}...saying and doing what their character|might say and do in that circumstance. {23856}{23956}Except that in this type of improvisation...|the kind we did in Poland... {23978}{24048}...the theme is oneself. {24066}{24128}So, you follow|the same law of improvisation... {24144}{24226}...which is that you do whatever your impulse,|as the character, tells you to do... {24246}{24316}...but in this case,|you are the character. {24332}{24417}So there's no imaginary situation|to hide behind... {24438}{24513}...and there's no other person|to hide behind. {24530}{24603}What you're doing, in fact,|is you're asking those same questions... {24623}{24745}...that Stanislavsky said the actor should|constantly ask himself as a character: {24773}{24860}Who am I? Why am I here? {24881}{24971}Where do I come from,|and where am I going? {24991}{25099}But instead of applying them to a role,|you apply them to yourself. {25123}{25178}- Hmm.|- Or, to look at it a little differently... {25193}{25243}...in a way, it's like going|right back to childhood... {25255}{25330}...where a group of children simply come|into a room or are brought into a room... {25349}{25404}...without toys... And begin to play. {25417}{25510}Grown-ups were learning|how to play again. {25531}{25626}So, you would, uh,|all sit together somewhere... {25648}{25715}...and, uh, you would play in some way. {25732}{25807}- But what would you actually do?|- Well, I could give you a good example. {25828}{25913}You see, we worked, uh, together|for a week in the city... {25933}{25983}...before we went off to our forest. {25996}{26053}And of course,|Grotowski was there in the city too. {26068}{26138}I heard that every night,|he conducted something called a beehive. {26154}{26202}I loved the sound of this beehive... {26214}{26289}...so a night or two before we were|supposed to go off to the country... {26308}{26385}I grabbed him by the collar, and I said,|"Listen, about this beehive. {26404}{26454}"You know, I'd kind of like|to participate in one. {26466}{26536}Just instinctively I feel it would|be something interesting. " {26554}{26629}And he said, " Well, certainly.|In fact, why don't you, with your group... {26646}{26711}...lead the beehive|instead of participating in one?" {26727}{26824}You know, I... I got very nervous,|you know, and I said, " Well, what is a beehive?" {26847}{26912}He said, " Well, a beehive is... {26928}{27001}...at 8:00 a hundred strangers|come into a room. " {27045}{27105}I said, " Yes?" He said,|"Yes, and whatever happens is a beehive. " {27119}{27199}I said, " Yes, but what am I supposed to do?"|He said, " That's up to you. " {27219}{27314}I said, " No, no. I really don't want to do this.|I'll just participate. " {27335}{27428}And he said,|"No, no. You lead the beehive. " {27449}{27499}Well, I was terrified, Wally. {27513}{27595}I mean, in a way, I felt on stage. {27644}{27701}I did it anyway. {27719}{27777}God. Well, tell me about it. {27791}{27891}You see, there was this song...|I have a tape of it. I can play it for you one day. {27917}{27997}And it's just unbelievably beautiful. {28016}{28133}You see, one of the women in our group knew|a few fragments of this song of Saint Francis... {28160}{28237}...and it's a song in which you|thank God for your eyes... {28256}{28336}...and you thank God for your heart,|and you thank God for your friends... {28354}{28404}...and you thank God for your life. {28418}{28493}And it, uh... It repeats itself|over and over again. {28510}{28558}And this became our theme song. {28570}{28620}I really must play this thing|for you one day... {28633}{28743}...because you just can't believe that a group|of people who don't know how to sing... {28768}{28861}...could create something so beautiful. {28882}{28997}So, I decided that when the people|arrived for the beehive... {29023}{29093}...that our group would already be there|singing this very beautiful song... {29109}{29204}...and that we would simply sing it|over and over again. {29227}{29347}One of the people decided to bring|her very large teddy bear, you know. {29373}{29423}Well, she's a little afraid of this event. {29437}{29494}And somebody wanted|to bring a... A sheet. {29509}{29576}And somebody else wanted|to bring a large bowl of water... {29593}{29648}...in case people got hot or thirsty. {29661}{29719}And somebody suggested|that we have candles... {29733}{29836}...that there be no artificial light,|but candlelight. {29859}{29922}And I remember watching people|preparing for this evening. {29937}{29992}Of course, there was no makeup,|and there were no costumes... {30006}{30071}...but it was exactly the way that people|prepare for a performance. {30086}{30166}You know, people sort of taking off|their jewelry and their watches... {30186}{30263}...and stowing it away|and making sure it's all secure. {30282}{30354}And then slowly people arrived,|the way they would arrive at the theater... {30372}{30442}...in ones and twos and 10s and 15s|and what have you. {30458}{30533}And we were just sitting there,|and we were singing this very beautiful song. {30552}{30634}And people started to sit with us|and started to learn the song. {30654}{30781}Now, there is, of course,|as in any performance or improvisation... {30812}{30872}...instinct for when things|are gonna get boring. {30887}{30984}So, at a certain point... It may have taken|an hour to get there, an hour and a half... {31007}{31107}I suddenly grabbed this teddy bear|and threw it in the air... {31129}{31219}...at which 140 or 130 people|suddenly exploded. {31241}{31316}You know, it was like|a... A Jackson Pollack painting, you know. {31333}{31443}Human beings exploded out of this tight|little circle that was singing the song. {31469}{31541}And before I knew it,|there were two circles, dancing, you know... {31559}{31641}...one dancing clockwise,|the other dancing counterclockwise... {31663}{31716}...with this rhythm|mostly from the waist down. {31732}{31839}In other words, like an American Indian dance,|with this thumping, persistent rhythm. {31999}{32082}Now, you could easily see,|'cause we're talking about group trance... {32101}{32211}...where the line between something like this|and something like Hitler's Nuremberg rallies... {32236}{32291}...is, in a way, a very thin line. {32370}{32473}Anyway, after about an hour|of this wild, hypnotic dancing... {32496}{32576}Grotowski and I found ourselves sitting opposite|each other in the middle of this whole thing. {32596}{32656}And we threw the teddy bear|back and forth. {32670}{32733}You know, on one level,|you could say this is childish. {32751}{32806}And I gave the teddy bear suck,|suddenly, at my breast. {32820}{32898}And then I threw the teddy bear to him,|and he gave it suck at his breast. {32916}{32976}And then the teddy bear|was thrown up into the air again... {32991}{33073}...at which there was another explosion|of form into... Something. {33093}{33163}And these...What was it like?|You know, this is the... {33179}{33269}There's something like a kaleidoscope,|like a human kaleidoscope. {33291}{33396}The evening was made up|of shiftings of the kaleidoscope. {33419}{33469}Now, the only other things|that I remember... {33483}{33530}...other than constantly trying|to guide this thing... {33543}{33655}...which was always involved with either|movement, rhythm, repetition or song... {33683}{33736}Or chanting, because,|uh, two people in my group... {33749}{33799}...had brought musical instruments,|a flute and a drum... {33812}{33862}...which, of course,|are sacred instruments... {33875}{33938}...was that sometimes the room|would break up... {33953}{34036}...into six or seven different things|going on at once. {34055}{34128}You know, six or seven|different improvisations... {34145}{34240}...all of which seemed, in some way,|related to each other. {34262}{34344}It was... It was like|a magnificent cobweb. {34402}{34505}And at one point, I noticed that Grotowski|was at the center of one group... {34528}{34598}...huddled around a bunch of candles|that they'd gathered together. {34618}{34696}And like a little child|fascinated by fire... {34714}{34817}I saw that he had his hand right in the flame|and was holding it there. {34840}{34913}And as I approached his group,|I wondered if I could do it. {34930}{35050}I put my left hand in the flame and I found|I could hold it there for as long as I liked... {35077}{35137}...and there was no burn|and no pain. {35152}{35255}But when I tried to put my right hand in the|flame, I couldn't hold it there for a second. {35277}{35400}So Grotowski said, " If it burns,|try to change some little thing in yourself. " {35427}{35515}And I tried to do that.|Didn't work. {35535}{35648}Then I remember a very, very beautiful|procession with the sheet... {35677}{35737}...and there was somebody|being carried below the sheet. {35751}{35829}You know, the sheet was like|some great biblical canopy. {35847}{35952}And the entire group was weaving|around the room and chanting. {36015}{36083}And then at one point,|people were dancing... {36099}{36157}...and I was dancing with a girl... {36171}{36234}...and suddenly our hands began|vibrating near each other... {36249}{36297}...like this...vibrating, vibrating. {36308}{36396}And we went down to our knees,|and suddenly I was sobbing in her arms... {36416}{36521}...and she was sort of cradling me in her arms,|and then she started to cry too. {36546}{36606}And then we... Then we just|hugged each other for a moment. {36624}{36704}And, uh, then we joined the dance again. {36726}{36811}And then at a certain point,|hours later... {36830}{36905}...we returned to the singing|of the song of Saint Francis... {36923}{36980}...and that was the end of the beehive. {37034}{37139}And then, again, when it was over, it was|just like the theater after a performance. {37163}{37243}You know, people sort of put on|their earrings and their wristwatches... {37262}{37310}...and we went off|to the railroad station... {37321}{37424}...to drink a lot of beer|and have a good dinner. {37447}{37517}Oh, and there was one girl,|who wasn't in our group... {37535}{37620}...but who just wouldn't leave,|so we took her along with us. {37693}{37741}Huh. {37906}{37993}God. Well, tell me some of the other things|you did with your group. {38014}{38106}Well... Oh, I remember once|when we were in the city... {38128}{38213}...we tried doing an improvisation...you know,|the kind that I used to do in New York. {38233}{38293}Uh, everybody was supposed to be|on an airplane... {38308}{38378}...and they've all learned from the pilot|there's something wrong with the motor. {38394}{38467}But what was unusual|about this improvisation... {38484}{38577}...was that two people who|participated in it... Fell in love. {38598}{38646}They've, in fact, married. {38658}{38726}And when we were...|Yeah, out of fear... {38742}{38822}...of being on this plane,|they fell in love... {38842}{38894}...thinking they were going to die|at any moment. {38908}{39000}And when we went to the forest,|these two disappeared... {39021}{39081}...because they understood|the... The experiment so well... {39096}{39189}...that they realized that to go off together|in the forest was much more important... {39210}{39298}...than any kind of experiment|the group could do as a whole. {39318}{39401}So, uh, about halfway|through the week... {39419}{39474}...we stumbled into|a clearing in the forest... {39489}{39574}...and the two of them|were fast asleep in each other's arms. {39593}{39661}It was around dawn,|and we put flowers on them... {39677}{39755}...to let them know we'd been there,|and then we crept away. {39773}{39856}And then on the last day of our stay|in the forest, these two showed up... {39875}{39948}...and they shook me by my hands,|and they thanked me very much... {39965}{40030}...for the wonderful work|they'd been able to do, you see. {40046}{40123}They understood what it was about. {40142}{40227}I mean, that, of course, poses|the question of what was it about. {40286}{40371}But it has...has something|to do with living. {40472}{40539}And then on the final day|of our stay in the forest... {40556}{40618}...the whole group did something|so wonderful for me, Wally. {40636}{40691}They arranged a christening...|a baptism... For me. {40706}{40763}And they filled the castle with flowers. {40778}{40838}And it was just a miracle of light... {40852}{40950}...because they had literally set up|hundreds of candles and torches. {40972}{41042}I mean, no church|could have looked more beautiful. {41059}{41136}There was a simple ceremony, and one|of them played the role of my godmother... {41155}{41205}...and another played the role|of my godfather. {41218}{41308}And I was given a new name.|They called me Yendrush. {41329}{41414}And some of the people|took it completely seriously... {41433}{41488}...and some of them found it funny. {41503}{41583}But, uh, I really felt|that I had a new name. {41637}{41732}And then we had an enormous feast,|with blueberries picked from the field... {41755}{41817}...and chocolate someone|had gone a great distance to buy... {41835}{41883}...and raspberry soup and rabbit stew. {41899}{41974}And we sang Polish songs|and Greek songs... {41991}{42064}...and everybody danced|for the rest of the night. {42081}{42134}- Hmm.|- Oh, I have a picture. {42222}{42297}See, this was... Let's see. {42342}{42414}Oh, yeah.|This was me in the forest. See? {42432}{42497}- God!|- That's what I felt like. {42602}{42660}- That's the state I was in.|- God. {42704}{42799}Yeah. I remember George, uh, told me|he'd seen you around that time. {42822}{42879}He said you looked like|you'd come back from a war. {42894}{42979}Yeah, I remember meeting him. He, uh...|He asked me a lot of friendly questions. {42998}{43053}I think I called you up, too,|that summer, didn't I? {43067}{43114}Huh. {43127}{43202}I think I was out of town. {43220}{43313}Yeah, well, most people I met thought|there was something wrong with me. {43334}{43414}They didn't say that, but I could tell that|that was what they thought. {43433}{43485}But... {43499}{43616}...you see, what I think|I experienced... was... {43645}{43713}...for the first time in my life... {43729}{43792}...to know what it means|to be truly alive. {43807}{43855}Now, that's very frightening... {43867}{43930}...because with that comes|an immediate awareness of death... {43945}{43993}'cause they go hand in hand. {44005}{44090}You know, the kind of impulse that led to|Walt Whitman, that led to Leaves of Grass. {44110}{44172}That feeling of being connected|to everything... {44188}{44245}...means to also be connected to death. {44260}{44315}And that's pretty scary. {44329}{44442}But I really felt as if I were floating|above the ground, not walking. {44467}{44532}You know, and I could do things|like go out to the highway... {44548}{44645}...and watch the lights go from red to green|and think, " How wonderful. " {44668}{44750}And then one day, in the early fall... {44770}{44832}I was out in the country,|walking in a field... {44848}{44933}...and I suddenly heard a voice|say, "Little Prince. " {44952}{45022}Of course, The Little Prince|was a book that I always thought of... {45040}{45087}...as disgusting, childish treacle. {45100}{45180}But still, I thought, " Well, you know,|if a voice comes to me in a field"... {45198}{45256}This was the first voice I had ever heard. {45270}{45320}Maybe I should go and read the book. {45333}{45390}Now, that same morning|I'd got a letter... {45405}{45462}...from a young woman|who'd been in my group in Poland. {45477}{45532}And in her letter she'd written,|"You have dominated me. " {45545}{45595}You know,|she spoke very awkward English. {45609}{45684}So she'd gone to the dictionary,|and she'd crossed out the word " dominated"... {45705}{45775}...and she'd said,|"No. The correct word is 'tamed. "' {45791}{45871}And then when I went to town|and bought the book and started to read it... {45891}{45993}I saw that " taming" was the most|important word in the whole book. {46017}{46112}By the end of the book, I was in tears,|I was so moved by the story. {46133}{46198}And then I went and tried to write|an answer to her letter... {46214}{46264}'cause she'd written me a very long letter. {46277}{46362}But I just couldn't find the right words,|so finally I took my hand... {46382}{46452}I put it on a piece of paper,|I outlined it with a pen... {46469}{46539}...and I wrote in the center something|like, " Your heart is in my hand. " {46556}{46598}Something like that. {46610}{46660}Then I went over|to my brother's house to swim... {46672}{46732}'cause he lives nearby in the country|and he has a pool. {46748}{46798}And he wasn't home.|I went into his library... {46810}{46885}...and he had bought at an auction|the collected issues of Minotaure. {46906}{47016}You know, the surrealist magazine? Oh, it's a great,|great surrealist magazine of the '20s and '30s. {47042}{47117}And I never...You know,|I consider myself a bit of a surrealist. {47134}{47199}I had never, ever seen|a copy of Minotaure. {47215}{47270}And here they all were,|bound, year after year. {47284}{47369}So, at random,|I picked one out, I opened it up... {47389}{47471}...and there was a full-page reproduction|of the letter " A"... {47491}{47543}...from Tenniel's Alice In Wonderland. {47557}{47637}And I thought, that...Well, you know,|it's been a day of coincidences... {47659}{47726}...but that's not unusual that the surrealists|would have been interested in Alice... {47743}{47793}...and I did a play of Alice. {47805}{47910}So at random,|I opened to another page... {47935}{48022}...and there were four handprints. {48043}{48115}One was Andr� Breton,|another was Andr� Derain... {48133}{48198}...the third was Andr�...|I've got it written down somewhere. {48213}{48311}It's not Malraux. It's, like, someone...|Another of the surrealists. {48333}{48453}All A's, and the fourth|was Antoine de Saint-Exup�ry... {48480}{48532}...who wrote The Little Prince. {48546}{48608}And they'd shown these handprints|to some kind of expert... {48624}{48694}...without saying|whose hands they belonged to. {48710}{48805}And under Exup�ry's,|it said that he was an artist... {48828}{48885}...with very powerful eyes... {48900}{48995}...who was a tamer of wild animals. {49016}{49071}I thought,|"This is incredible, you know. " {49086}{49178}And I looked back to see|when the issue came out. {49200}{49297}It came out on the newsstands|May 12, 1934... {49319}{49424}...and I was born during the day|of May 11, 1934. {49478}{49606}So, well, that's what started me on, uh,|Saint-Exup�ry and The Little Prince. {49861}{49924}Now, of course today... {49939}{50024}...today I think there's a very fascistic thing|under The Little Prince. {50045}{50102}You know, I...|Well, no, I think there's a kind of... {50117}{50252}I think a kind of S.S. Totalitarian|sentimentality in there somewhere. {50281}{50349}You know, there's something, you know...|that... {50365}{50420}...that love of, um... {50434}{50541}Well, that masculine love|of a certain kind of oily muscle. {50566}{50648}You know what I mean?|I mean, I can't quite put my finger on it. {50668}{50758}But I can just imagine|some beautiful S.S. Man... {50778}{50828}...loving The Little Prince. {50842}{50907}Now, I don't know why, but there's|something wrong with it. It stinks. {51096}{51206}Well, didn't George tell me that you were gonna|do a play that was based on The Little Prince? {51232}{51312}Hmm. Well, what happened, Wally... {51363}{51400}...was that fall I was in New York... {51411}{51496}...and I met this young Japanese|Buddhist priest named Kozan... {51516}{51579}...and I thought he was Puck|from the Midsummer Night's Dream. {51594}{51649}You know,|he had this beautiful, delicate smile. {51666}{51714}I thought he was the Little Prince. {51726}{51811}So, naturally, I decided|to go off to the Sahara desert... {51831}{51916}...to work on The Little Prince|with two actors and this Japanese monk. {51939}{51986}You did? {51999}{52121}Well, I mean, I was still in a very|peculiar state at that time, Wally. {52149}{52234}You know, I would... I would look|in the rearview mirror of my car... {52253}{52323}...and see little birds|flying out of my mouth. {52370}{52475}And I remember always being|exhausted in that period. {52499}{52602}I always felt weak. You know, I really|didn't know what was going on with me. {52625}{52723}I would just sit out there all alone|in the country for days... {52745}{52825}...and do nothing but write in my diary. {52844}{52914}- And I was always thinking about death.|- Huh. {52930}{52980}But you went to the Sahara. {52994}{53046}Oh,yes, we went off into the desert... {53060}{53112}...and we rode through the desert|on camels. {53126}{53173}And we rode and we rode. {53186}{53246}And then at night we would walk out|under that enormous sky... {53260}{53310}...and look at the stars. {53324}{53414}I just kept thinking about the same things|that I was always thinking about at home... {53434}{53484}...particularly about Chiquita. {53497}{53582}In fact, I thought about|just about nothing but my marriage. {53659}{53716}And then I remember|one incredibly dark night... {53731}{53811}...being at an oasis, and there were|palm trees moving in the wind... {53829}{53922}...and I could hear Kozan singing|far away in that beautiful bass voice. {53943}{54011}And I tried to follow his voice|along the sand. {54087}{54162}You see, I thought he had|something to teach me, Wally. {54225}{54275}And sometimes|I would meditate with him. {54289}{54361}Sometimes I'd go off|and meditate by myself. {54417}{54490}You know,|I would see images of Chiquita. {54507}{54565}Once I actually saw her growing old... {54579}{54644}...and her hair turning gray|in front of my eyes. {54660}{54782}And I would just wail and yell my lungs out|out there on the dunes. {54900}{54997}Anyway,|the desert was pretty horrible. {55020}{55067}It was pretty cold. {55080}{55167}We were searching for something, but we|couldn't tell if we were finding anything. {55188}{55238}You know that once Kozan and I... {55250}{55313}...we were sitting on a dune,|and we just ate sand. {55328}{55388}No, we weren't trying to be funny.|I started, then he started. {55404}{55499}We just ate sand and threw up.|That's how desperate we were. {55520}{55610}In other words, we didn't know why we were|there. We didn't know what we were looking for. {55634}{55709}The entire thing seemed|completely absurd, arid and empty. {55730}{55815}It was like, uh...|like a last chance or something. {55835}{55892}Huh. {55907}{55964}So what happened then? {55979}{56049}Well, in those days... {56065}{56120}I went completely on impulse. {56135}{56215}So on impulse I brought Kozan back|to stay with us in New York... {56233}{56321}...after we got back from the Sahara,|and he stayed for six months. {56341}{56441}- And he really sort of took over the whole family, in a way.|- What do you mean? {56465}{56570}Well, there was certainly a center|missing in the house at the time. {56593}{56656}There certainly wasn't a father,|'cause I was always thinking... {56671}{56756}...about going off to Tibet|or doing God knows what. {56776}{56836}And so he taught the whole family|to meditate... {56851}{56956}...and he told them all about Asia and the East|and his monastery and everything. {56980}{57090}He really captivated everybody|with an incredible bag of tricks. {57114}{57184}He had literally|developed himself, Wally... {57202}{57319}...so that he could push on his fingers|and rise off out of his chair. {57346}{57396}I mean, he could literally go like this... {57408}{57463}You know, push on his fingers|and go into like a headstand... {57478}{57530}...and just hold himself there|with two fingers. {57543}{57603}Or if Chiquita would suddenly get|a little tension in her neck... {57618}{57698}...well, he'd immediately have her down on the|floor, he'd be walking up and down on her back... {57717}{57792}...doing these unbelievable massages,|you know. {57843}{57893}And the children found him amazing. {57906}{57986}I mean, you know, we'd visit friends|who had children... {58005}{58057}...and immediately|he'd be playing with these children... {58071}{58121}...in a way that, you know, we just can't do. {58133}{58201}I mean, those children...|just giggles, giggles, giggles... {58217}{58302}...about what this Japanese monk|was doing in these holy robes. {58323}{58398}I mean, he was an acrobat,|a ventriloquist... {58415}{58478}...a magician, everything. {58493}{58541}You know,|the amazing thing was that... {58553}{58613}I don't think he had any interest|in children whatsoever. {58628}{58683}None at all.|I don't think he liked them. {58697}{58750}I mean, you know,|when he stayed with us... {58763}{58831}...in the first week, really, the kids|were just googly-eyed over him. {58847}{58920}But then a couple of weeks later,|Chiquita and I could be out... {58937}{59012}...and Marina could have flu|or a temperature of 104... {59030}{59095}...and he wouldn't even go in|and say hello to her. {59110}{59195}But he was taking over more and more. {59216}{59281}I mean, his own habits|had completely changed. {59296}{59416}You know, he started wearing these elegant|Gucci shoes under his white monk's robes. {59444}{59494}He was eating huge amounts of food. {59506}{59594}I mean, he ate twice as much|as Nicolas ate, you know? {59614}{59677}This tiny little Buddhist|when I first met him, you know... {59692}{59765}...was eating a little bowl of milk...|hot milk with rice... {59782}{59847}...was now eating huge beef. {59920}{59988}It was just very strange. {60003}{60091}You know, and we had tried working together,|but really our work consisted mostly... {60111}{60231}...of my trying to do these incredibly painful|prostrations that they do in the monastery. {60259}{60334}You know, so really we hadn't|been working very much. {60351}{60486}Anyway, we were out in the country, and|we all went to Christmas mass together. {60517}{60572}You know, he was all dressed up|in his Buddhist finery. {60585}{60685}And it was one of those... One of those awful,|dreary Catholic churches on Long Island... {60708}{60808}...where the priest talks about|communism and birth control. {60831}{60929}And as I was sitting there in mass, I was|wondering, " What in the world is going on?" {60951}{61001}I mean, here I am. I'm a grown man... {61014}{61079}...and there's this strange person living|in the house, and I'm not working... {61094}{61182}You know, I was doing nothing|but scribbling a little poetry in my diary. {61202}{61315}And I can't get a job teaching anymore,|and I don't know what I want to do. {61340}{61478}When all of a sudden a huge creature|appeared, looking at the congregation. {61508}{61618}It was about, I'd say, 6'8"...|something like that, you know... {61643}{61718}...and it was...|it was half bull, half man... {61736}{61786}...and its skin was blue. {61802}{61892}It had violets growing out of its eyelids|and poppies growing out of its toenails. {61913}{62005}And it just stood there|for the whole mass. {62027}{62087}I mean, I could not make|that creature disappear. {62101}{62176}You know, I thought, " Oh, well. You know,|I'm just seeing this 'cause I'm bored. " {62195}{62325}You know, close my...|I could not make that creature go away. {62353}{62451}Okay. Now, I didn't talk with people about it,|because they'd think I was weird... {62473}{62611}...but I felt that this creature|was somehow coming to comfort me... {62641}{62721}...that somehow|he was appearing to say... {62743}{62856}"Well, you may feel low and you might|not be able to create a play right now... {62881}{62981}"but look at what can come to you|on Christmas Eve. Hang on, old friend. {63004}{63074}"I may seem weird to you,|but on these weird voyages... {63090}{63140}"weird creatures appear. {63154}{63251}It's part of the journey.|You're okay. Hang in there. " {63430}{63490}By the way, uh, did you ever see... {63504}{63594}...that play, uh, The Violets are Blue? {63670}{63717}No. {63729}{63809}Oh, when you mentioned the violets,|it-it reminded me of that. {63828}{63901}It-It was about, um, people... {63918}{63996}...being, uh, strangled|on a... On a submarine. {64014}{64069}Hmm. {64199}{64322}Well, so that was...|that was Christmas. {64349}{64417}What happened after that? {64433}{64506}- Do you really want to hear about all this?|- Yeah. {64523}{64616}Well, around that time... {64730}{64822}I was beginning to think about going to India.|And Kozan suddenly left one day. {64844}{64929}I was beginning to get into a lot|of very strange ideas around that time. {64949}{65049}Now, for example, I'd developed this...|Well, I got this idea which I... {65072}{65152}Now, it was very appealing to me|at the time, you know... {65170}{65253}...which was that I would have a flag,|a large flag... {65272}{65332}...and that wherever I worked,|this flag would fly. {65348}{65453}Or if we were outside, say, with a group, that|the flag could be the thing we lay on at night... {65476}{65571}...and that somehow, between|working on this flag and lying on this flag... {65594}{65641}...this flag flying over us... {65654}{65751}...that the flag would pick up|vibrations of a kind... {65776}{65844}...that would still be in the flag|when I brought it home. {65860}{65938}So I went down to meet this flag maker|that I'd heard about. {65956}{66006}And you know, there was|this very straightforward-looking guy. {66019}{66139}You know, very sweet, really healthy-looking|and everything. Nice big, blond. {66166}{66241}And he had a beautiful, clean loft|down in the village with lovely, happy flags. {66259}{66344}And I was all into The Little Prince,|and I talked to him about The Little Prince... {66363}{66461}...these adventures and everything, how I|needed the flag and what the flag should be. {66483}{66541}He seemed to really connect with it. {66555}{66618}So, two weeks later, I came back. {66633}{66726}He showed me a flag that I thought|was very odd, you know... {66747}{66797}'cause I had, you know...|well, you know... {66810}{66895}I had expected something|gentle and lyrical. {66915}{66973}There was something about this|that was so powerful... {66987}{67035}...it was almost overwhelming. {67047}{67097}And it did include the Tibetan swastika. {67155}{67210}He put a swastika in your flag? {67224}{67291}No, it was the Tibetan swastika,|not the Nazi swastika. {67308}{67365}It's one of the most ancient|Tibetan symbols. {67380}{67455}And it was just strange, you know? {67472}{67562}But I brought it home,|because my idea with this flag... {67584}{67646}...was that before I left...|you know, before I left for India... {67662}{67759}I wanted several people who were close to me|to have this flag in the room for the night... {67782}{67867}...to sleep with it, you know, and then|in the morning to sew something into the flag. {67886}{67986}So I took the flag into Marina, and I said,|"Hey, look at this. What do you think of this?" {68009}{68079}And she said, " What is that? That's awful. "|I said, " It's a flag. " {68096}{68136}And she said, " I don't like it. " {68147}{68227}I said, " I kind of thought you might like|to spend the night with it, you know. " {68245}{68320}But she really thought|the flag was awful. {68339}{68446}So then Chiquita threw this party|for me before I left for India... {68471}{68523}...and the apartment|was filled with guests. {68537}{68612}And at one point Chiquita said,|"The flag, the flag. Where's the flag?" {68633}{68730}And I said, " Oh, yeah. The flag. "|And I go and get the flag, and I open it up. {68755}{68850}Chiquita goes absolutely white|and runs out of the room and vomits. {68872}{68954}So the party just comes to a halt|and breaks up. {68974}{69041}And then the next day|I gave it to this young woman... {69058}{69123}...who'd been in my group in Poland,|who was now in New York. {69139}{69227}I didn't tell her anything|about any of this. {69247}{69307}At 5:00 in the morning,|she called me up and she said... {69322}{69382}"I gotta come and see you right away. "|I thought, " Oh, God. " {69396}{69491}She came up, and she said, " I saw things...|I saw things around this flag. {69514}{69589}"Now, I know you're stubborn, and I know|you want to take this thing with you... {69606}{69681}"but if you'd follow my advice,|you'd put it in a hole in the ground... {69700}{69770}...and burn it and cover it with earth,|cause the devil's in it. " {69786}{69834}I never took the flag with me. {69846}{69959}In fact, I gave it to her, and, uh,|she... She had a ceremony with it... {69984}{70044}...six months later, in France,|with some friends... {70059}{70114}...in which, uh, they did burn it. {70158}{70216}God. {70230}{70313}That's really, really amazing. {70379}{70444}So, did you ever go to India? {70461}{70543}Oh, yes, I... I went to India|in the spring, Wally... {70563}{70625}...and I came back home|feeling all wrong. {70641}{70751}I mean, you know, I'd been to India,|and I'd just felt like a tourist. {70775}{70845}I'd found nothing. {70863}{70980}So I was... I was spending, uh, the summer|on Long Island with my family... {71006}{71081}...and I heard about this community|in Scotland called Findhorn... {71099}{71187}...where people sang and talked|and meditated with plants. {71207}{71345}And it was founded by several rather|middle-class English and Scottish eccentrics. {71374}{71434}Some of them intellectuals,|and some of them not. {71450}{71510}And I'd heard that they'd|grown things in soil... {71524}{71602}...that supposedly nothing can grow in,|'cause it's almost beach soil... {71624}{71726}...and that they'd built... Not built... They'd|grown the largest cauliflowers in the world... {71750}{71800}...and there are sort of cabbages. {71812}{71907}And they've grown trees|that can't grow in the British Isles. {71930}{71997}So I went there.|I mean, it is an amazing place, Wally. {72013}{72118}I mean, if there are insects|bothering the plants... {72142}{72230}...they will talk with the insects|and, you know, make an agreement... {72250}{72353}...by which they'll set aside a special patch|of vegetables just for the insects... {72375}{72428}...and then the insects|will leave the main part alone. {72441}{72491}- Huh.|- Things like that. {72505}{72565}And everything they do|they do beautifully. {72579}{72649}I mean, the buildings just shine. {72667}{72767}And I mean, for instance, the icebox,|the stove, the car... They all have names. {72789}{72844}And since you wouldn't treat Helen,|the icebox... {72859}{72919}...with any less respect|than you would Margaret, your wife... {72933}{73028}...you know, you make sure that Helen is as clean|as Margaret, or treated with equal respect. {73119}{73232}And when I was there, Wally,|I remember being in the woods... {73257}{73372}...and I would look at a leaf,|and I would actually see that thing... {73398}{73478}...that is alive in that leaf. {73496}{73571}And then I remember just running|through the woods as fast as I could... {73590}{73652}...with this incredible laugh|coming out of me... {73668}{73798}...and really being in that state,you know,|where laughter and tears seem to merge. {73826}{73874}I mean, it absolutely blasted me open. {73886}{73964}When I came out of Findhorn,|I was hallucinating nonstop. {73982}{74047}I was seeing clouds as creatures. {74063}{74128}The people on the airplane|all had animals' faces. {74144}{74247}I mean, I was on a trip. It was like being|in a William Blake world suddenly. {74270}{74318}Things were exploding. {74330}{74438}So immediately I went to Belgrade,|'cause I wanted to talk to Grotowski. {74461}{74541}Grotowski and I got together|at midnight in my hotel room... {74561}{74648}...and we drank instant coffee|out of the top of my shaving cream... {74669}{74769}...and we talked from midnight|until 11:00 the next morning. {74795}{74855}- God. What did he say?|- Nothing! {74869}{74922}I talked. He didn't say a word. {74935}{75028}And...And then I guess really... {75076}{75176}...the last big experience of this kind|took place that fall. {75199}{75247}It was out at Montauk on Long Island... {75259}{75349}...and there were only about nine|of us involved, mostly men. {75370}{75445}And we borrowed Dick Avedon's property|out at Montauk. {75462}{75542}And the country out there|is like Heathcliff country. {75562}{75624}It's absolutely wild. {75642}{75702}What we wanted to do was|we wanted to take, you know... {75718}{75775}We wanted to take All Souls' Eve,|Halloween... {75790}{75847}...and use it as a point of departure|for something. {75862}{75947}So each one of us prepared|some sort of event for the others... {75970}{76040}...somehow in the spirit|of All Souls' Eve. {76056}{76129}But the biggest event|was three of the people... {76146}{76206}...kept disappearing|in the middle of the night each night... {76221}{76278}...and we knew they were|preparing something big... {76293}{76343}...but we didn't know what. {76356}{76461}And midnight on Halloween,|under a dark moon, above these cliffs... {76485}{76580}...we were all told to gather at the topmost cliff|and that we would be taken somewhere. {76601}{76709}And we did.|And we waited, and it was very, very cold. {76733}{76826}And then the three of them... Helen, Bill|and Fred... Showed up wearing white. {76847}{76950}You know, something they'd made out|of sheets... Looked a little spooky, not funny. {76973}{77091}And they took us into the basement of this house|that had burned down on the property. {77117}{77217}And in this ruined basement, they had set up|a table with benches they'd made. {77240}{77367}And on this table they had laid out paper,|pencils, wine and glasses. {77396}{77528}And we were all asked to sit at the table|and to make out our last will and testament. {77558}{77645}You know, to think about and write down|whatever our last words were to the world... {77668}{77723}...or to somebody we were very close to. {77740}{77805}And that's quite a task. {77822}{77907}I must have been there for about|an hour and a half or so, maybe two. {77930}{78015}And then one at a time they would ask|one of us to come with them... {78034}{78084}...and I was one of the last. {78098}{78158}And they came for me,|and they put a blindfold on me... {78172}{78227}...and they ran me through these fields...|two people. {78241}{78343}And they'd found a kind of potting shed...|you know, a kind of shed, on the grounds... {78367}{78454}...a little tiny room|that had once had tools in it. {78475}{78550}And they took me down the steps,|into this basement... {78567}{78690}...and the room was just filled|with harsh white light. {78717}{78805}Then they told me to get undressed|and give them all my valuables. {78825}{78885}Then they put me on a table,|and they sponged me down. {78901}{79013}Well, you know, I just started flashing|on-on-on death camps and secret police. {79039}{79134}I don't know what happened to the other people,|but I just started to cry uncontrollably. {79155}{79268}Uh, then-then they got me to my feet|and they took photographs of me, naked. {79293}{79363}And then naked, again blindfolded,|I was run through these forests... {79380}{79460}...and we came to a kind of tent made of sheets,|with sheets on the ground. {79479}{79529}And there were all these naked bodies... {79542}{79629}...huddling together|for warmth against the cold. {79652}{79705}Must have been left there|for about an hour. {79718}{79796}And then again, one by one,|one at a time, we were led out. {79814}{79864}The blindfold was put on... {79878}{79970}...and I felt myself being lowered|onto something like a stretcher. {79992}{80114}And the stretcher was carried a long way,|very slowly, through these forests... {80142}{80284}...and then I felt myself|being lowered into the ground. {80315}{80407}They had, in fact, dug six graves... {80429}{80496}...eight feet deep. {80513}{80620}And then I felt these pieces of wood|being put on me. {80645}{80730}And I cannot tell you, Wally,|what I was going through. {80749}{80832}And then the stretcher was lowered|into the grave... {80851}{80901}...and then this wood was put on me... {80915}{80977}...and then my valuables were put on me,|in my hands. {80993}{81060}And they'd taken, you know,|a kind of sheet or canvas... {81077}{81139}...and they'd stretched about this much|above my head... {81155}{81225}...and then they shoveled dirt|into the grave... {81277}{81392}...so that I really had the feeling|of being buried alive. {81481}{81551}And after being in the grave|for about half an hour... {81568}{81650}I mean, I didn't know how long|I'd be in there... {81670}{81732}I was resurrected,|lifted out of the grave... {81748}{81808}...blindfold taken off,|and run through these fields. {81822}{81932}And we came to a great circle of fire,|with music and hot wine... {81958}{82010}...and everyone danced until dawn. {82024}{82106}And then at dawn... {82126}{82201}...to the best of our ability,|we filled up the graves... {82218}{82286}...and went back to New York. {82392}{82485}And that was really the last big event.|I mean, that was the end. {82506}{82554}I mean, you know, I began to realize... {82566}{82634}I just didn't want to do these things|anymore, you know? {82650}{82763}I felt sort of becalmed, you know,|like that chapter in Moby Dick... {82787}{82862}...where the wind goes out of the sails. {82883}{82951}And then last winter, without, uh,|thinking about it very much... {82967}{83075}I went to see this agent I know to tell him|I was interested in directing plays again. {83099}{83159}Actually,|he seemed a little surprised... {83175}{83260}...to see that Rip Van Winkle|was still alive. {83447}{83495}Mmm. {83507}{83557}God. {83570}{83617}I didn't know they were so small. {83714}{83766}Well,you know, frankly... {83780}{83850}I'm sort of repelled by the whole story,|if you really want to know. {83866}{83926}- What?|- Ah, you know... {83942}{83992}Who did I think I was, you know? {84004}{84119}I mean, that's the story of some kind|of spoiled princess, you know. {84146}{84203}Who did I think I was,|the Shah of Iran? {84218}{84338}You know, I really wonder if people such|as myself are really not Albert Speer, Wally. {84364}{84469}- You know, Hitler's architect, Albert Speer?|- What? {84493}{84583}No, I've been thinking a lot about him recently|because, uh, I think I am Speer. {84604}{84679}And I think it's time that I was caught|and tried the way he was. {84700}{84740}What are you talking about? {84751}{84846}Well, you know, he was a very cultivated man,|an architect, an artist, you know... {84867}{84952}...so he thought the ordinary rules of life|didn't apply to him either. {85051}{85146}I mean, I really feel|that everything I've done... {85167}{85230}...is horrific,just horrific. {85245}{85320}My God. But why? {85339}{85451}You see...You see, I've seen a lot of death|in the last few years, Wally... {85476}{85533}...and there's one thing|that's for sure about death... {85548}{85610}You do it alone, you see.|That seems quite certain, you see. {85626}{85703}That I've seen. That the people|around your bed mean nothing. {85722}{85797}Your reviews mean nothing.|Whatever it is, you do it alone. {85814}{85917}And so the question is, when I get on my|deathbed, what kind of a person am I gonna be? {85940}{86010}And I'm just very dubious about the kind|of person who would have lived his life... {86028}{86075}...those last few years the way I did. {86088}{86153}Why should you feel that way? {86168}{86281}You see, I've had a very rough time|in the last few months, Wally. {86306}{86404}Three different people in my family|were in the hospital at the same time. {86426}{86474}Then my mother died. {86486}{86561}Then Marina had something wrong with her back,|and we were terribly worried about her. {86579}{86656}You know, so... So, I mean,|I'm feeling very raw right now. {86678}{86756}I mean, uh... I mean, I can't sleep,|my nerves are shot. {86774}{86824}I mean, I'm affected by everything. {86837}{86939}You know, la-last week I had this really nice|director from Norway over for dinner... {86963}{87018}...and he's someone|I've known for years and years... {87031}{87086}...and he's somebody|that I think I'm quite fond of. {87101}{87181}And I was sitting there just thinking|that he was a pompous, defensive... {87199}{87259}...conservative stuffed shirt|who was only interested in the theater. {87275}{87362}He was talking and talking. His mother|had been a famous Norwegian comedienne. {87383}{87490}I realized he had said " I remember my mother"|at least 400 times during the evening. {87514}{87591}And he was telling story after story|about his mother. {87610}{87682}You know, I'd heard these stories|20 times in the past. {87700}{87767}He was drinking this whole bottle|of bourbon very quietly. {87784}{87836}His laugh was so horrible. {87850}{87940}You know, I could hear his laugh...|the pain in that laugh, the hollowness. {87960}{88020}You know, what being that woman's son|had done to him. {88036}{88128}You know, so at a certain point I just had|to ask him to leave... Nicely, you know. {88150}{88235}I told him I had to get up early|the next morning, 'cause it was so horrible. {88254}{88314}It was just as if he had died|in my living room. {88330}{88432}You know, then I went into the bathroom|and cried 'cause I felt I'd lost a friend. {88456}{88508}And then after he'd gone,|I turned the television on... {88521}{88581}...and there was this guy who had|just won the something-something. {88596}{88684}Some sports event... Some kind of a great big|check and some kind of huge silver bottle. {88704}{88764}And he, you know... He couldn't stuff|the check in the bottle... {88779}{88859}...and he put the bottle in front of his nose|and pretended it was his face. {88877}{88935}He wasn't really listening|to the guy who was interviewing him... {88949}{89034}...but he was smiling malevolently at his friends,|and I looked at that guy and I thought... {89055}{89155}"What a horrible, empty,|manipulative rat. " {89177}{89275}Then I thought, " That guy is me. " {89297}{89377}Then last night actually, you know,|it was our 20th wedding anniversary... {89397}{89452}...and I took Chiquita to see|this show about Billie Holiday. {89465}{89553}I looked at these show business people who|know nothing about Billie Holiday, nothing. {89573}{89666}You see, they were really kind of,|in a way, intellectual creeps. {89687}{89782}And I suddenly had this feeling. I mean, you know I|was just sitting there, crying through most of the show. {89804}{89874}And I suddenly had this feeling|I was just as creepy as they were... {89891}{89941}...and that my whole life|had been a sham... {89954}{90024}...and I didn't have the guts|to be Billie Holiday either. {90040}{90135}I mean, I really feel|that I'm just washed up, wiped out. {90158}{90225}I feel I've just squandered my life. {90344}{90441}Andr�, now, how can you say|something like that? {90464}{90511}I mean... {90754}{90894}Well, you know, I may be in|a very emotional state right now, Wally... {90925}{91000}...but since I've come back home I've just|been finding the world we're living in... {91017}{91080}...more and more upsetting. {91095}{91168}I mean, last week I went down|to the Public Theater one afternoon. {91185}{91240}You know, when I walked in,|I said hello to everybody... {91255}{91325}'cause I know them all, and they all know me,|they're always very friendly. {91341}{91439}You know that seven or eight people|told me how wonderful I looked? {91461}{91549}And then one person... One... A woman|who runs the casting office, said... {91569}{91619}"Gee, you look horrible.|Is something wrong?" {91632}{91707}Now, she...You know, we started talking.|Of course, I started telling her things. {91725}{91823}And she suddenly burst into tears|because an aunt of hers who's 80... {91848}{91953}...whom she's very fond of, went into|the hospital for a cataract, which was solved. {91976}{92064}But the nurse was so sloppy,|she didn't put the bed rails up... {92084}{92162}...and so the aunt fell out of bed|and is now a complete cripple. {92180}{92238}So you know, we were talking|about hospitals. {92252}{92335}Now, you know, this woman,|because of who she is... {92354}{92412}You know, 'cause this had happened|to her very, very recently. {92426}{92514}- She could see me with complete clarity.|- Uh-huh. {92534}{92584}She didn't know anything|about what I'd been going through. {92597}{92662}But the other people, what they saw|was this tan, or this shirt... {92678}{92728}...or the fact that the shirt|goes well with the tan. {92741}{92788}So they said, " Gee, you look wonderful. " {92801}{92883}Now, they're living|in an insane dreamworld. {92903}{92983}They're not looking.|That seems very strange to me. {93001}{93081}Right, because they just didn't|see anything, somehow... {93101}{93186}...except, uh, the few little things|that they wanted to see. {93295}{93408}Yeah, you know, it's like what happened|just before my mother died. {93433}{93493}You know, we'd gone to the hospital|to see my mother... {93509}{93569}...and I went in to see her... {93583}{93696}...and I saw this woman who looked as bad|as any survivor of Auschwitz or Dachau. {93724}{93816}And I was out in the hall|sort of comforting my father... {93838}{93938}...when a doctor who was a specialist|in a problem she had with her arm... {93961}{94031}...went into her room|and came out just beaming. {94048}{94143}And he said, " Boy, don't we have|a lot of reason to feel great? {94164}{94254}Isn't it wonderful|how she's coming along?" {94276}{94398}Now, all he saw was the arm.|That's all he saw. {94426}{94536}Now, here's another person|who's existing in a dream. {94560}{94620}Who, on top of that,|is a kind of butcher... {94638}{94693}...who's committing|a kind of familial murder... {94707}{94787}...because when he comes out of that room,|he psychically kills us... {94806}{94856}...by taking us into a dream world... {94869}{94954}...where we become confused|and frightened... {94974}{95057}'cause the moment before,|we saw somebody who already looked dead... {95075}{95188}...and now here comes a specialist|who tells us they're in wonderful shape. {95213}{95281}I mean, they were literally|driving my father crazy. {95297}{95375}I mean, you know, here's an 82-year-old man|who's very emotional... {95393}{95468}...and you know, and if you go in one moment,|and you see the person's dying... {95487}{95562}...and you don't want them to die, and then|a doctor comes out five minutes later... {95579}{95629}...and tells you they're in wonderful shape... {95643}{95708}I mean, you know, you can go crazy. {95723}{95818}- Yeah. I know what you mean.|- I mean, the doctor didn't see my mother. {95840}{95902}The people at the Public Theater|didn't see me. {95918}{95993}I mean, we're just walking around|in some kind of fog. {96011}{96114}I think we're all in a trance.|We're walking around like zombies. {96136}{96226}I don't... I don't think we're even aware|of ourselves or our own reaction to things. {96248}{96320}We...We're just going around all day|like unconscious machines... {96338}{96415}...and meanwhile there's all of this rage|and worry and uneasiness... {96434}{96486}...just building up|and building up inside us. {96500}{96557}That's right. It just builds up, uh... {96572}{96654}...and then it just leaps out|inappropriately. {96716}{96781}I mean, I remember|when I was, uh, acting in this play... {96799}{96846}...based on The Master and Margarita|by Bulgakov. {96859}{96919}And I was playing the part of the cat. {96934}{96994}But they had trouble, uh,|making up my cat suit... {97009}{97101}...so I didn't get it delivered to me|till the night of the first performance. {97123}{97213}Particularly the head... I mean,|I'd never even had a chance to try it on. {97233}{97321}And about four of my fellow actors|actually came up to me... {97341}{97406}...and they said these things|which I just couldn't help thinking... {97423}{97470}...were attempts to destroy me. {97483}{97580}You know, one of them said, uh,|"Oh, well, now that head... {97603}{97665}"will totally change your hearing|in the performance. {97688}{97766}"You may hear everything|completely differently... {97783}{97838}"and it may be very upsetting. {97853}{97933}"Now, I was once in a performance|where I was wearing earmuffs... {97951}{98044}...and I couldn't hear anything|anybody said. " {98065}{98158}And then another one said, " Oh, you know,|whenever I wear even a hat on stage... {98179}{98227}I tend to faint. " {98239}{98314}I mean, those remarks|were just full of hostility... {98332}{98417}...because, I mean, if I'd listened to those people,|I would have gone out there on stage... {98437}{98507}...and I wouldn't have been able to hear anything,|and I would have fainted. {98524}{98574}But the hostility|was completely inappropriate... {98587}{98635}...because, in fact,|those people liked me. {98646}{98734}I mean, that hostility was just|some feeling that was, you know... {98754}{98824}...left over from|some previous experience. {98842}{98927}Because somehow|in our social existence today... {98946}{99026}...we're only allowed to|express our feelings, uh... {99046}{99098}...weirdly and indirectly. {99112}{99174}If you express them directly,|everybody goes crazy. {99189}{99266}Well, did you express your feelings|about what those people said to you? {99285}{99387}No. I mean, I didn't even know|what I felt till I thought about it later. {99411}{99496}And I mean, at the most, you know,|in a situation like that, uh... {99515}{99570}...even if I had known what I felt... {99585}{99652}I might say something,|if I'm really annoyed... {99669}{99764}...like, uh, " Oh, yeah.|Well, that's just fascinating... {99785}{99878}...and, uh, I probably will|faint tonight,just as you did. " {99899}{99972}I do just the same thing myself. {99989}{100072}We can't be direct, so we end up|saying the weirdest things. {100091}{100171}I mean, I remember a night. It was|a couple of weeks after my mother died. {100190}{100237}And I was in pretty bad shape. {100250}{100302}And I had dinner with three|relatively close friends... {100316}{100366}...two of whom had|known my mother quite well... {100379}{100442}...and all three of whom|had known me for years. {100456}{100526}You know that we went through that|entire evening without my being able to... {100544}{100594}...for a moment,|get anywhere near what... {100606}{100661}Not that I wanted to sit|and have this dreary evening... {100676}{100746}...in which I was talking about all this pain|that I was going through and everything. {100762}{100805}Really, not at all. {100816}{100869}But the fact that nobody could say... {100882}{100955}"Gee, what a shame about your mother"|or " How are you feeling?" {100972}{101055}It was just as if nothing had happened.|They were all making these jokes and laughing. {101074}{101124}I got quite crazy, as a matter of fact. {101137}{101199}One of these people mentioned|a certain man whom I don't like very much... {101215}{101312}...and I started screeching about how|he had just been found in the Bronx River... {101335}{101437}...and his penis had dropped off from gonorrhea,|and all kinds of insane things. {101461}{101578}And later, when I got home, I realized I'd just|been desperate to break through this ice. {101605}{101642}Yeah. {101653}{101753}I mean, do you realize, Wally, if you brought|that situation into a Tibetan home... {101775}{101850}That'd be just so far out. I mean,|they wouldn't be able to understand it. {101869}{101929}That would be simply...|simply so weird, Wally. {101943}{102041}If four Tibetans came together,|and tragedy had just struck one of the ones... {102063}{102178}...and they spent the whole evening going... {102204}{102259}I mean,you know,|Tibetans would have looked at that... {102272}{102350}...and would have thought that was|the most unimaginable behavior. {102368}{102426}- But for us, that's common behavior.|- Mm-hmm. {102440}{102535}I mean, really, the... The Africans would have|probably put their spears into all four of us... {102558}{102605}'cause it would have driven them crazy. {102618}{102680}They would have thought we were|dangerous animals or something like that. {102696}{102791}- Right.|- I mean, that's absolutely abnormal behavior. {102812}{102867}Is everything all right, gentlemen? {102881}{102928}- Great.|- Yeah. {103061}{103116}But those are|typical evenings for us. {103130}{103235}I mean, we go to dinners and parties|like that all the time. {103259}{103334}These evenings are really|like sort of sickly dreams... {103351}{103414}...because people are talking in symbols. {103429}{103534}Everyone is sort of floating through|this fog of symbols and unconscious feelings. {103559}{103619}No one says what they're|really thinking about. {103633}{103758}Then people will start making these jokes|that are really some sort of secret code. {103786}{103846}Right. Well, what often happens|in some of these evenings... {103861}{103971}...is that these really crazy little fantasies|will just start being played with, you know... {103996}{104073}...and everyone will be talking at once|and sort of saying... {104092}{104187}"Hey, wouldn't it be great if Frank Sinatra|and Mrs. Nixon and blah-blah-blah... {104208}{104271}...were in such and such a situation?" {104286}{104371}You know, always with famous people,|and always sort of grotesque. {104392}{104457}Or people will be talking about|some horrible thing... {104472}{104585}...like... Like, uh, the death of that girl|in the car with Ted Kennedy... {104610}{104670}...and they'll just be|roaring with laughter. {104685}{104747}I mean, it's really amazing.|It's just unbelievable. {104763}{104890}That's the only way anything is expressed,|through these completely insane jokes. {104919}{104999}I mean, I think that's why I never understand|what's going on at a party. {105017}{105097}I'm always completely confused. {105117}{105234}You know, uh, Debby once said,|after one of these New York evenings... {105261}{105318}...she thought she'd traveled|a greater distance... {105333}{105420}...just by journeying from her origins|in the suburbs of Chicago... {105441}{105488}...to that New York evening... {105501}{105576}...than her grandmother had traveled|in, uh, making her way... {105596}{105661}...from the steppes of Russia|to the suburbs of Chicago. {105677}{105735}I think that's right. {105782}{105847}You know, it may... it may be, Wally,|that one of the reasons... {105863}{105911}...that we don't know|what's going on... {105922}{105995}...is that when we're there at a party,|we're all too busy performing. {106012}{106045}Uh-huh. {106054}{106139}That was one of the reasons|that, uh, Grotowski gave up the theater. {106160}{106262}He just felt that people in their lives now|were performing so well... {106286}{106353}...that performance in the theater|was sort of superfluous... {106370}{106417}...and, in a way, obscene. {106429}{106481}Huh. {106498}{106566}Isn't it amazing|how often a doctor... {106582}{106650}...will live up to our expectation|of how a doctor should look? {106666}{106754}When you see a terrorist on television,|he looks just like a terrorist. {106774}{106837}I mean, we live in a world|in which fathers... {106851}{106906}...or single people, or artists... {106921}{106976}...are all trying to live up|to someone's fantasy... {106989}{107087}...of how a father, or a single person,|or an artist should look and behave. {107109}{107179}They all act as if they know exactly how|they ought to conduct themselves... {107197}{107244}...at every single moment... {107257}{107309}...and they all seem totally self-confident. {107323}{107385}Of course, privately people|are very mixed up about themselves. {107400}{107427}Yeah. {107436}{107491}They don't know what they should|be doing with their lives. {107505}{107558}- They're reading all these self-help books.|- Oh, God! {107574}{107634}I mean, those books are just so touching,|because they show... {107652}{107724}...how desperately curious we all are|to know how all the others of us... {107742}{107789}...are really getting on in life... {107802}{107869}...even though, by performing|these roles all the time... {107886}{107961}...we're just hiding the reality of ourselves|from everybody else. {107978}{108043}I mean, we live in such|ludicrous ignorance of each other. {108060}{108115}We usually don't know|the things we'd like to know... {108128}{108178}...even about our supposedly|closest friends. {108192}{108239}I mean... I mean, you know... {108251}{108313}...suppose you're going through|some kind of hell in your own life. {108329}{108414}Well, you would love to know if your friends|have experienced similar things. {108434}{108482}But we just don't dare to ask each other. {108494}{108554}No. It would be like asking|your friend to drop his role. {108569}{108654}I mean, we just put no value at all|on perceiving reality. {108673}{108763}I mean, on the contrary, this incredible|emphasis that we all place now... {108785}{108835}...on our so-called careers... {108847}{108962}...automatically makes perceiving reality|a very low priority... {108989}{109104}...because if your life is organized around|trying to be successful in a career... {109129}{109257}...well, it just doesn't matter what|you perceive or what you experience. {109285}{109368}You can really sort of shut your mind off|for years ahead, in a way. {109387}{109460}You can sort of|turn on the automatic pilot. {109477}{109562}You know,just the way your mother's doctor|had on his automatic pilot... {109582}{109637}...when he went in|and he looked at the arm... {109650}{109710}...and he totally failed|to perceive anything else. {109726}{109826}That's right. Our... Our minds are just|focused on these goals and plans... {109848}{109896}...which in themselves|are not reality. {109908}{109991}No. Goals and plans are not... {110010}{110120}I mean, they're... They're fantasy.|They're part of a dream life. {110145}{110232}I mean, you know, it always just|does seem so ridiculous, somehow... {110253}{110345}...that everybody has to have|his little... His little goal in life. {110367}{110474}I mean, it's so absurd, in a way, when you|consider that it doesn't matter which one it is. {110499}{110559}Right. And because people's|concentration is on their goals... {110573}{110648}...in their life|they just live each moment by habit. {110667}{110747}Really, like the Norwegian telling|the same stories over and over again. {110765}{110828}- Mm-hmm.|- Life becomes habitual. {110843}{110898}And it is today. {110913}{110963}I mean, very few things happen now|like that moment... {110975}{111045}...when Marlon Brando sent the Indian woman|to accept the Oscar... {111062}{111109}...and everything went haywire. {111122}{111182}Things just very rarely|go haywire now. {111197}{111272}And if you're just operating by habit... {111290}{111360}...then you're not really living. {111380}{111445}I mean, you know, in Sanskrit,|the root of the verb " to be"... {111460}{111518}...is the same as " to grow"|or " to make grow. " {111532}{111580}Huh. {111692}{111739}- Do you know about Roc?|- Hmm? {111752}{111804}Oh, well. {111818}{111868}Roc was a wonderful man. {111880}{111935}He was one of the founders|of Findhorn... {111949}{112056}...and he was one of Scotland's...well,|he was Scotland's greatest mathematician... {112081}{112143}...and he was one of the century's|great mathematicians. {112159}{112286}And he prided himself on the fact|that he had no fantasy life, no dream life... {112315}{112382}...nothing to stand be...|no imaginary life... {112399}{112509}...nothing to stand between him|and the direct perception of mathematics. {112533}{112631}And one day when he was in his mid-50s,|he was walking in the gardens of Edinburgh... {112657}{112727}...and he saw a faun. {112743}{112833}The faun was very surprised because fauns|have always been able to see people... {112854}{112919}...but you know,|very few people ever see them. {112935}{113003}You know, uh,|those little imaginary creatures. {113019}{113067}- Not a deer.|- Oh. {113079}{113159}- You call them fauns, don't you?|- I thought a fawn was a baby deer. {113178}{113258}Yeah, well, there's a deer that's called a fawn,|but these are like those little imagi... {113276}{113341}- Oh! The kind that Debussy...|- Yes. Right. {113358}{113443}Well, so he got to know the faun,|and he got to know other fauns... {113462}{113520}...and a series of conversations began... {113534}{113604}...and more and more fauns would|come out every afternoon to meet him. {113622}{113669}And he'd have talks with the fauns. {113682}{113764}Then one day, after a while, when, you know,|they'd really gotten to know him... {113783}{113845}...they asked him|if he would like to meet Pan... {113861}{113913}...because Pan would like to meet him. {113927}{113977}And of course,|Pan was afraid of terrifying him... {113990}{114055}...because he knew|of the Christian misconception... {114071}{114161}...which portrayed Pan as an evil creature,|which he's not. {114181}{114254}But Roc said he would love to meet Pan,|and so they met... {114271}{114339}...and Pan indirectly sent him|on his way on a journey... {114359}{114466}...in which he met the other people|who began Findhorn. {114491}{114566}But Roc used to practice|certain exercises... {114587}{114664}...like, uh, for instance,|if he were right-handed... {114682}{114739}...all today he would do everything|with his left hand. {114754}{114821}All day... Eating, writing,|everything... Opening doors... {114838}{114908}...in order to break the habits of living. {114925}{114988}Because the great danger,|he felt, for him... {115002}{115085}...was to fall into a trance,|out of habit. {115104}{115217}He had a whole series of very simple|exercises that he had invented... {115242}{115347}...just to keep|seeing, feeling, remembering. {115372}{115422}Because you have to learn now. {115434}{115507}It didn't used to be necessary,|but today you have to learn something... {115524}{115577}...like, uh, are you really hungry... {115590}{115668}...or are you just stuffing your face... {115686}{115741}Because that's what you do,|out of habit? {115755}{115820}I mean, you can afford to do it,|so you do it... {115836}{115884}...whether you're hungry or not. {115895}{115965}You know, if you go to|the Buddhist Meditation Center... {115983}{116045}...they make you taste|each bite of your food... {116061}{116151}...so it takes two hours...|it's horrible... To eat your lunch. {116171}{116256}But you're conscious|of the taste of your food. {116277}{116359}If you're just eating out of habit,|then you don't taste the food... {116379}{116451}...and you're not conscious of the reality|of what's happening to you. {116468}{116518}You enter the dream world again. {116531}{116619}Now, do you think maybe|we live in this dream world... {116639}{116722}...because we do so many things every day|that affect us in ways... {116741}{116826}...that somehow|we're just not aware of? {116846}{116953}I mean, you know, I was thinking,|um, last Christmas... {116978}{117058}Debby and I were given|an electric blanket. {117076}{117194}I can tell you that it is just|such a marvelous advance... {117220}{117335}...over our old way of life, and it is just great. {117361}{117446}But, uh, it is quite different|from not having an electric blanket... {117466}{117539}...and I sometimes sort of wonder,|well, what is it doing to me? {117556}{117646}I mean, I sort of feel, uh,|I'm not sleeping quite in the same way. {117667}{117714}No, you wouldn't be. {117727}{117799}I mean, uh, and my dreams|are sort of different... {117817}{117887}...and I feel a little bit different|when I get up in the morning. {117933}{118021}I wouldn't put an electric blanket on|for anything. {118041}{118159}First, I'd be worried I might get electrocuted.|No, I don't trust technology. {118185}{118275}But I mean, the main thing, Wally,|is that I think that that kind of comfort... {118296}{118376}...just separates you from reality|in a very direct way. {118395}{118463}- You mean...|- I mean, if you don't have that electric blanket... {118479}{118547}...and your apartment is cold|and you need to put on another blanket... {118563}{118648}...or go into the closet and pile up coats|on top of the blankets you have... {118668}{118723}...well, then you know it's cold. {118736}{118791}And that sets up a link of things. {118806}{118893}You have compassion for the per...|Well, is the person next to you cold? {118914}{118969}Are there other people in the world|who are cold? {118982}{119042}What a cold night!|I like the cold. {119058}{119143}My God, I never realized.|I don't want a blanket. It's fun being cold. {119162}{119247}I can snuggle up against you even more|because it's cold. {119267}{119329}All sorts of things occur to you. {119348}{119431}Turn on that electric blanket,|and it's like taking a tranquilizer... {119450}{119513}...or it's like being lobotomized|by watching television. {119527}{119575}I think you enter|the dream world again. {119635}{119713}I mean, what does it do to us, Wally,|living in an environment... {119731}{119831}...where something as massive|as the seasons, or winter, or cold... {119855}{119910}...don't in any way affect us? {119923}{119971}I mean, we're animals, after all. {119983}{120031}I mean, what does that mean? {120043}{120121}I think that means that instead|of living under the sun... {120139}{120207}...and the moon and the sky|and the stars... {120223}{120293}...we're living in a fantasy world|of our own making. {120310}{120392}Yeah, but I mean, I would never|give up my electric blanket, Andr�. {120414}{120482}I mean, because New York|is cold in the winter. {120498}{120578}I mean, our apartment is cold.|It's a difficult environment. {120598}{120653}I mean, our lives|are tough enough as it is. {120666}{120754}I'm not looking for ways to get rid of|the few things that provide relief and comfort. {120774}{120844}I mean, on the contrary,|I'm looking for more comfort... {120862}{120919}...because, uh, the world is very abrasive. {120934}{120994}I mean, uh,|I'm trying to protect myself... {121008}{121098}...because, really, there are these abrasive|beatings to be avoided everywhere you look. {121119}{121219}But, Wally, don't you... Don't you see|that comfort can be dangerous? {121242}{121322}I mean, you like to be comfortable,|and I like to be comfortable too... {121341}{121428}...but comfort can lull you|into a dangerous tranquillity. {121479}{121554}I mean, my mother knew|a woman, Lady Hatfield... {121571}{121624}...who was one of the richest women|in the world... {121637}{121720}...and she died of starvation|because all she would eat was chicken. {121739}{121809}I mean, she just liked chicken, Wally,|and that was all she would eat. {121827}{121902}And actually her body was starving,|but she didn't know it... {121919}{122009}'cause she was quite happy eating her chicken,|and so she finally died. {122030}{122135}See, I honestly believe|that we're all like Lady Hatfield now. {122159}{122257}We're having a lovely, comfortable time|with our electric blankets and our chicken... {122278}{122376}...and meanwhile we're starving because|we're so cut off from contact with reality... {122398}{122493}...that we're not getting any real sustenance,|'cause we don't see the world. {122516}{122563}We don't see ourselves. {122576}{122628}We don't see how our actions|affect other people. {122642}{122719}Have you read Martin Buber's book|On Hasidism? {122738}{122793}- No.|- Well, here's a view of life. {122806}{122881}I mean, he talks about the belief|of the HasidicJews... {122899}{122946}...that there are spirits chained|in everything. {122959}{123031}There are spirits chained in you.|There are spirits chained in me. {123049}{123106}Well, there are spirits chained|in this table. {123121}{123243}And that prayer is the action of liberating|these enchained embryo-like spirits... {123271}{123323}...and that every action of ours in life... {123337}{123412}...whether it's, uh,|doing business, or making love... {123429}{123479}...or having dinner together,|or whatever... {123493}{123558}...that every action of ours|should be a prayer... {123573}{123618}...a sacrament in the world. {123631}{123696}Now, do you think we're living like that? {123711}{123761}Why do you think|we're not living like that? {123774}{123849}I think it's because if we allowed ourselves|to see what we do every day... {123867}{123917}...we might just find it too nauseating. {123930}{123977}I mean, the way we treat other people. {123990}{124080}You know, every day, several times a day,|I walk into my apartment building. {124100}{124188}The doorman calls me Mr. Gregory,|and I call him Jimmy. {124208}{124286}Already, what's the difference|between that... {124304}{124374}...and the Southern plantation owner|who's got slaves? {124392}{124467}You see, I think that an act of murder|is committed in that moment... {124484}{124534}...when I walk into that building. {124548}{124650}Because here's a dignified, intelligent man...|a man of my own age... {124673}{124763}...and when I call him Jimmy,|then he becomes a child, and I'm an adult... {124784}{124842}...because I can buy my way|into the building. {124856}{124921}Right. That's right. {124937}{125034}I mean, my God,|when I was a Latin teacher... {125057}{125109}I mean, people used to treat me... {125123}{125190}I mean, uh, you know,|if I would go to a party... {125207}{125279}...of professional or literary people... {125297}{125384}I mean, I was just treated, uh,|in the nicest sense of the word... {125405}{125445}...uh, like a dog. {125459}{125509}I mean, in other words,|there was no question... {125521}{125611}...of my being able to participate on|an equal basis in a conversation with people. {125632}{125694}I mean, you know, I'd occasionally|have conversations with people... {125710}{125772}...but then, uh,|when they asked what I did... {125788}{125848}...which would always happen|after about five minutes... {125863}{125918}...uh, you know, their faces... {125932}{126024}Even if they were enjoying the conversation, or|they were flirting with me, or whatever it was... {126046}{126131}...their faces would just have that expression|just like the portcullis crashing down. {126150}{126235}You know, those medieval gates.|They would just walk away. {126256}{126338}I mean, I literally lived like a dog. {126360}{126448}And I mean, uh, when Debby was|working as a secretary, you know... {126468}{126556}...if she would tell people what she did,|they would just go insane. {126579}{126636}I mean, it would be just|as if she'd said, uh... {126651}{126771}"Oh, well, I've been serving a life sentence|recently, uh, for child murdering. " {126831}{126931}I mean, my God, you know, when you talk|about our attitudes toward other people... {126989}{127039}I mean, I think of myself... {127053}{127153}...as just a very decent,|good person, you know... {127175}{127233}...just because I think|I'm reasonably friendly... {127247}{127302}...to most of the people|I happen to meet every day. {127317}{127384}I mean, I really think|of myself quite smugly. {127400}{127477}I just think I'm a perfectly nice guy,|uh, you know... {127496}{127573}...so long as I think of the world|as consisting of, you know... {127592}{127662}...just the small circle of the people|that I know as friends... {127679}{127754}...or the few people that we know|in this little world of our little hobbies... {127772}{127819}...the theater or whatever it is. {127832}{127907}And I'm really quite self-satisfied.|I'm just quite happy with myself. {127924}{127977}I just have no complaint about myself. {127990}{128040}I mean, you know, let's face it. {128054}{128149}I mean, there's a whole enormous world|out there that I just don't ever think about. {128170}{128275}I certainly don't take responsibility|for how I've lived in that world. {128299}{128369}I mean, you know, if I were actually|to sort of confront the fact... {128386}{128439}...that I'm sort of sharing this stage... {128455}{128515}...with-with-with this starving person|in Africa somewhere... {128533}{128593}...well, I wouldn't feel so great|about myself. {128611}{128728}So naturally I just... I just blot all those|people right out of my perception. {128755}{128832}So, of course...|of course, I'm ignoring... {128851}{128933}...a whole section of the real world. {128955}{129015}But frankly, you know... {129031}{129138}...when I write a play, in a way, one of the things|I guess I think I'm trying to do... {129162}{129242}...is I'm trying to bring myself up|against some little bits of reality... {129261}{129336}...and I'm trying to share that, uh,|with an audience. {129399}{129472}I mean... I mean,|of course we all know, uh... {129489}{129552}...the theater is, uh,|in terrible shape today. {129566}{129676}I mean, uh... I mean, at least a few years ago|people who really cared about the theater... {129702}{129759}...used to say, " The theater is dead. " {129774}{129846}And now everybody's redefined|the theater in such a trivial way... {129864}{129911}...that, I mean... I mean, God... {129924}{130029}I know people who are involved with|the theater who go to see things now that... {130052}{130110}I mean, a few years ago|these same people... {130124}{130197}...would have just been embarrassed|to have even seen some of these plays. {130214}{130277}I mean, they would have just shrunk,|you know,just in horror... {130292}{130347}...at the superficiality of these things. {130361}{130426}But now they say,|"Oh, that was pretty good. " {130441}{130491}It's just incredible. {130505}{130582}And I really just find that attitude|unbearable... {130601}{130696}...because I really do think the theater|can do something very important. {130717}{130837}I mean, I do think the theater can help|bring people in contact with reality. {130865}{130982}Now, now, you may not feel that at all.|You may just find that totally absurd. {131047}{131120}Yeah, but, Wally,|don't you see the dilemma? {131137}{131237}You're not taking into account|the period we're living in. {131260}{131312}I mean, of course that's what|the theater should do. {131326}{131376}I mean, I've always felt that. {131388}{131473}You know, when I was a young director,|and I directed the Bacchae at Yale... {131494}{131574}...my impulse, when Pentheus has been|killed by his mother and the Furies... {131592}{131657}...and they pull the tree back,|and they tie him to the tree... {131674}{131756}...and fling him into the air, and he flies|through space and he's killed... {131776}{131848}...and they rip him to shreds|and I guess cut off his head... {131865}{131957}...my impulse was that the thing to do was|to get a head from the New Haven morgue... {131979}{132026}...and pass it around the audience. {132039}{132111}Now, I wanted Agawe|to bring on a real head... {132129}{132189}...and that this head should be|passed around the audience... {132204}{132294}...so that somehow people realized|that this stuff was real, see? {132315}{132380}That it was real stuff. {132395}{132488}- Now, the actress playing Agawe|absolutely refused to do it. {132509}{132562}You know, Gordon Craig|used to talk about... {132575}{132680}...why is there gold or silver in the churches|or something... The great cathedrals... {132705}{132792}...when actors could be wearing|gold and silver? {132812}{132904}And I mean, people who saw Eleonora Duse|in the last couple of years of her life, Wally... {132926}{133011}...people said that is was like|seeing light on stage, or mist... {133031}{133079}...or the essence of something. {133091}{133159}I mean, then when you think|about Bertolt Brecht... {133174}{133252}He somehow created a theater|in which people could observe... {133270}{133325}...that was vastly entertaining|and exciting... {133340}{133415}...but in which the excitement|didn't overwhelm you. {133436}{133541}He somehow allowed you the distance|between the play and yourself... {133564}{133637}...that, in fact, two human beings need|in order to live together. {133654}{133754}You know, the question is whether|the theater now can do for an audience... {133777}{133862}...what Brecht tried to do|or what Craig or Duse tried to do. {133882}{133930}Can it do it now? {133942}{134025}'Cause, you see, I think that|people today are so deeply asleep... {134044}{134112}...that unless, you know, you're putting on|those sort of superficial plays... {134127}{134182}...that just help your audience|to sleep more comfortably... {134197}{134267}...it's very hard to know|what to do in the theater. {134343}{134458}Because, you see, I think that if you|put on serious, contemporary plays... {134485}{134532}...by writers like yourself... {134545}{134612}...you may only be helping to deaden|the audience in a different way. {134628}{134690}What do you mean? {134706}{134758}Well, I mean, Wally... {134772}{134854}...how does it affect an audience|to put on one of these plays... {134874}{134949}...in which you show that people|are totally isolated now... {134966}{135046}...and they can't reach each other,|and their lives are desperate? {135066}{135148}Or how does it affect them to see a play|that shows that our world... {135168}{135273}...is full of nothing but shocking|sexual events, and terror, and violence? {135296}{135354}Does that help to wake up|a sleeping audience? {135368}{135446}See, I don't think so,|'cause I think it's very likely... {135464}{135539}...that the picture of the world that you're|showing them in a play like that... {135560}{135635}...is exactly the picture of the world|they have already. {135653}{135723}I mean, you know, they know|their own lives and relationships... {135740}{135790}...are difficult and painful. {135803}{135855}And if they watch the evening news|on television... {135869}{135949}...well, there what they see|is a terrifying, chaotic universe... {135967}{136067}...full of rapes and murders|and hands cut off by subway cars... {136091}{136178}...and children pushing their parents|out of windows. {136199}{136281}So the play tells them that|their impression of the world is correct... {136301}{136351}...and that there's absolutely no way out. {136363}{136411}There's nothing they can do. {136423}{136496}And they end up feeling|passive and impotent. {136513}{136576}I mean, look... Look, at something|like that christening... {136591}{136649}...that my group arranged for me|in the forest in Poland. {136663}{136738}Well, there was an example of something|that really had all the elements of theater. {136756}{136836}It was worked on carefully.|It was thought about carefully. {136854}{136912}It was done with|exquisite taste and magic. {136926}{136981}And they, in fact, created something... {136996}{137088}...which, in this case, was, in a way,|just for an audience of one...just for me. {137110}{137207}But they created something|that had ritual, love, surprise... {137230}{137277}...denouement,|beginning, a middle and end... {137290}{137372}...and was an incredibly beautiful|piece of theater. {137391}{137446}And the impact that it had|on its audience... On me... {137460}{137518}...was somehow a totally positive one. {137532}{137595}It didn't deaden me.|It brought me to life. {137693}{137751}Yeah, but I mean, are you saying|that it's impossible... {137765}{137868}I mean, uh... I mean...|I mean, uh, isn't it a little upsetting... {137891}{137986}...to come to the conclusion that there's|no way to wake people up anymore... {138009}{138116}...except to involve them in some kind|of a strange, uh, christening in Poland... {138141}{138206}...or some kind of a strange experience|on top of Mount Everest? {138221}{138329}I mean, uh, because, uh,|you know that the awful thing is... {138356}{138408}...if you really say that it's-it's necessary... {138425}{138488}...to, uh, take everybody to, uh, Everest... {138503}{138603}...it's really tough, because everybody|can't be taken to Everest. {138626}{138706}I mean, there must have been periods in history|when it would have been possible... {138724}{138797}...to, uh, save the patient|through less drastic measures. {138814}{138879}I mean, there must have been periods|when in order to give people... {138896}{138946}...a strong or meaningful experience... {138958}{139033}...you wouldn't actually have to|take them to Everest. {139052}{139109}But you do now.|In some way or other, you do now. {139124}{139194}You know, there was a time when you|could have just, for instance, written... {139210}{139295}I don't know,|uh, Sense and Sensibility byJane Austen. {139315}{139405}And I'm sure the people who read it had|a pretty strong experience. I'm sure they did. {139426}{139494}I mean, all right, now you're saying|that people today wouldn't get it. {139509}{139599}Maybe that's true. But I mean, isn't there|any kind of writing or any kind of a play... {139621}{139683}I mean, isn't it still legitimate|for writers... {139699}{139781}...to try to portray reality|so that people can see it? {139801}{139901}I mean, really, tell me, why do we|require a trip to Mount Everest... {139923}{139981}...in order to be able to perceive|one moment of reality? {139995}{140065}I mean... I mean, is Mount Everest|more real than New York? {140082}{140134}I mean, isn't New York real? {140148}{140250}I mean, you see, I think if you|could become fully aware... {140274}{140359}...of what existed in the cigar store|next door to this restaurant... {140382}{140429}I think it would just|blow your brains out. {140442}{140504}I mean... I mean, isn't there|just as much reality to be perceived... {140520}{140570}...in a cigar store|as there is on Mount Everest? {140582}{140622}I mean, what do you think? {140634}{140701}I think that not only is there nothing|more real about Mount Everest... {140718}{140768}I think there's nothing that different,|in a certain way. {140780}{140843}I mean, because reality|is uniform, in a way... {140858}{140908}...so that if your...|if your perceptions are... {140922}{140992}I mean, if your own mechanism|is operating correctly... {141008}{141091}...it would become irrelevant to go|to Mount Everest, and sort of absurd... {141110}{141180}...because, I mean... it just...|I mean, of course, on some level, I mean... {141197}{141287}...obviously it's very different|from a cigar store on 7 th Avenue. {141308}{141388}- But I mean...|- Well, I agree with you, Wally. {141407}{141472}But the problem is that people|can't see the cigar store now. {141491}{141551}I mean, things don't affect people|the way they used to. {141565}{141625}I mean, it may very well be|that 10 years from now... {141641}{141711}...people will pay $10,000 in cash|to be castrated... {141727}{141792}...just in order to be affected by something. {141853}{141931}Well, why...why do you think that is?|I mean, why is that? {141949}{142062}I mean, is it just because people|are lazy today, or they're bored? {142087}{142165}I mean, are we just|like bored, spoiled children... {142183}{142246}...who've just been lying|in the bathtub all day... {142260}{142318}...just playing with their plastic duck... {142332}{142417}...and now they're just thinking,|"Well, what can I do?" {142480}{142550}Okay. Yes. We're bored. {142566}{142614}We're all bored now. {142626}{142681}But has it every occurred to you, Wally,|that the process... {142696}{142758}...that creates this boredom|that we see in the world now... {142773}{142883}...may very well be a self-perpetuating,|unconscious form of brainwashing... {142908}{142988}...created by a world totalitarian government|based on money... {143007}{143074}...and that all of this is much more dangerous|than one thinks... {143091}{143161}...and it's not just a question|of individual survival, Wally... {143177}{143237}...but that somebody who's bored|is asleep... {143253}{143330}...and somebody who's asleep|will not say no? {143351}{143419}See, I keep meeting these people...|I mean, uh,just a few days ago... {143439}{143486}I met this man whom I greatly admire. {143499}{143556}He's a Swedish physicist.|Gustav Bj�rnstrand. {143571}{143633}And he told me that he|no longer watches television... {143649}{143721}...he doesn't read newspapers,|and he doesn't read magazines. {143738}{143795}He's completely|cut them out of his life... {143810}{143922}...because he really does feel that we're living|in some kind of Orwellian nightmare now... {143948}{144048}...and that everything that you hear now|contributes to turning you into a robot. {144100}{144190}And when I was at Findhorn, I met|this extraordinary English tree expert... {144212}{144264}...who had devoted his life|to saving trees. {144278}{144338}Just got back from Washington,|lobbying to save the redwoods. {144352}{144425}He's 84 years old,|and he always travels with a backpack... {144442}{144490}'cause he never knows|where he's gonna be tomorrow. {144502}{144577}And when I met him at Findhorn,|he said to me, " Where are you from?" {144595}{144672}I said, " New York. " He said, " Ah, New York.|Yes, that's a very interesting place. {144691}{144788}Do you know a lot of New Yorkers who keep talking|about the fact that they want to leave, but never do?" {144811}{144876}And I said, " Oh, yes. " And he said,|"Why do you think they don't leave?" {144892}{144990}I gave him different banal theories.|He said, " Oh, I don't think it's that way at all. " {145011}{145124}He said, " I think that New York is the new|model for the new concentration camp... {145149}{145212}"where the camp has been built|by the inmates themselves... {145227}{145315}"and the inmates are the guards, and they|have this pride in this thing they've built. {145339}{145386}"They've built their own prison. {145399}{145446}"And so they exist|in a state of schizophrenia... {145461}{145509}"where they are both guards|and prisoners. {145521}{145604}"And as a result, they no longer have...|having been lobotomized... {145623}{145683}"the capacity to leave|the prison they've made... {145698}{145770}...or to even see it as a prison. " {145788}{145868}And then he went into his pocket,|and he took out a seed for a tree... {145886}{145934}...and he said, " This is a pine tree. " {145946}{146036}He put it in my hand and he said,|"Escape before it's too late. " {146094}{146159}See, actually,|for two or three years now... {146174}{146282}Chiquita and I have had this very unpleasant|feeling that we really should get out. {146306}{146376}We really feel likeJews in Germany|in the late '30s. {146394}{146441}Get out of here. {146453}{146503}Of course, the problem is|where to go. {146519}{146639}'Cause it seems quite obvious that the|whole world is going in the same direction. {146723}{146805}See, I think it's quite possible|that the 1960s... {146825}{146942}...represented the last burst of the human being|before he was extinguished... {146969}{147036}...and that this is the beginning|of the rest of the future, now... {147053}{147153}...and that from now on there'll simply be|all these robots walking around... {147175}{147233}...feeling nothing, thinking nothing. {147247}{147322}And there'll be nobody left almost|to remind them... {147340}{147420}...that there once was a species|called a human being... {147442}{147489}...with feelings and thoughts... {147502}{147574}...and that history and memory|are right now being erased... {147592}{147664}...and soon nobody|will really remember... {147682}{147737}...that life existed on the planet. {147796}{147908}Now, of course, Bj�rnstrand feels|that there's really almost no hope... {147934}{148016}...and that we're probably|going back to a very savage... {148036}{148113}...lawless, terrifying period. {148132}{148192}Findhorn people|see it a little differently. {148206}{148276}They're feeling that there'll be|these pockets of light... {148293}{148345}...springing up|in different parts of the world... {148359}{148466}...and that these will be, in a way,|invisible planets on this planet... {148491}{148553}...and that as we, or the world,|grow colder... {148569}{148659}...we can take invisible space journeys|to these different planets... {148679}{148767}...refuel for what it is we need to do|on the planet itself... {148787}{148845}...and come back. {148859}{148929}And it's their feeling that|there have to be centers now... {148947}{149054}...where people can come and reconstruct|a new future for the world. {149079}{149129}And when I was talking|to, uh, Gustav Bj�rnstrand... {149141}{149221}...he was saying that actually these centers|are growing up everywhere now... {149240}{149315}...and that what they're trying to do,|which is what Findhorn was trying to do... {149336}{149388}...and, in a way, what I was trying to do... {149405}{149463}I mean,|these things can't be given names... {149477}{149582}...but in a way, these are all attempts|at creating a new kind of school... {149606}{149661}...or a new kind of monastery. {149674}{149737}And Bj�rnstrand talks about|the concept of" reserves"... {149752}{149820}...islands of safety where history|can be remembered... {149836}{149901}...and the human being|can continue to function... {149918}{150008}...in order to maintain the species|through a dark age. {150088}{150148}In other words, we're talking|about an underground... {150163}{150228}...which did exist in a different way|during the Dark Ages... {150244}{150312}...among the mystical orders|of the church. {150328}{150381}And the purpose of this underground... {150394}{150524}...is to find out how to preserve|the light, life, the culture... {150553}{150638}...how to keep things living. {150657}{150730}You see, I keep thinking|that what we need... {150747}{150817}...is a new language... {150835}{150890}...a language of the heart... {150903}{151001}...a language, as in the Polish forest,|where language wasn't needed. {151023}{151146}Some kind of language between people|that is a new kind of poetry... {151173}{151288}...that's the poetry of the dancing bee|that tells us where the honey is. {151314}{151389}And I think that in order|to create that language... {151410}{151495}...you're going to have to learn how|you can go through a looking glass... {151518}{151565}...into another kind of perception... {151578}{151700}...where you have that sense|of being united to all things... {151728}{151808}...and suddenly you understand everything. {152099}{152154}Are you ready for some dessert? {152168}{152223}Uh, I think I'll just have an espresso.|Thank you. {152237}{152334}- Very good.|- I'll... I'll also have one. Thank you. {152357}{152439}And...And, uh, could I also|have, uh, an amaretto? {152459}{152524}Certainly, sir. {152543}{152595}Thank you. {152609}{152714}You see, Wally, there's this incredible|building that they built at Findhorn. {152737}{152802}And the man who designed it|had never designed anything in his life. {152818}{152868}He wrote children's books. {152881}{152959}And some people wanted it to be|a sort of hall of meditation... {152977}{153037}...and others wanted it to be|a kind of lecture hall. {153052}{153154}But the psychic part of the community|wanted it to serve another function as well... {153178}{153268}...because they wanted it to be a kind|of spaceship which at night could rise up... {153288}{153358}...and let the U.F.O.'s know that this|was a safe place to land... {153376}{153426}...and that they would find friends there. {153438}{153531}So, the problem was...|'cause it needed a massive kind of roof... {153552}{153630}...was how to have a roof|that would stay on the building... {153648}{153733}...but at the same time be able to fly up|at night and meet the flying saucers. {153753}{153823}So, the architect|meditated and meditated... {153840}{153910}...and he finally came up with|the very simple solution... {153927}{153984}...of not actually joining the roof|to the building... {153999}{154046}...which means that it should fall off... {154059}{154139}...because they have great gales|up in northern Scotland. {154157}{154245}So, to keep it from falling off,|he got beach stones from the beach... {154265}{154333}...or we did,|'cause I-I worked on this building... {154353}{154403}...all up and down the roof,|just like that. {154415}{154523}And the idea was that the energy|that would flow from stone to stone... {154547}{154597}...would be so strong, you see... {154610}{154692}...that it would keep the roof down|under any conditions... {154712}{154824}...but at the same time, if the roof needed|to go up, it would be light enough to go up. {154850}{154942}Well...|it works, you see. {154964}{155026}Now, architects|don't know why it works... {155042}{155092}...and it shouldn't work,|'cause it should fall off. {155104}{155152}But it works. It does work. {155164}{155257}The gales blow, and the roof should fall off,|but it doesn't fall off. {155416}{155464}Yep. {155476}{155524}Well, uh... {155566}{155634}...do you want to know|my actual response to all this? {155650}{155708}- Do you want to hear my actual response?|- Yes! {155773}{155830}See, my actual response...|I mean... {155845}{155972}I mean... I mean,|I'm just trying to... To survive, you know? {156001}{156078}I mean,|I'm just trying to earn a living... {156097}{156162}...just trying to pay my rent and my bills. {156177}{156237}I mean, uh... {156253}{156335}Ah, I live my life. {156357}{156432}I enjoy staying home with Debby. {156450}{156522}I'm reading Charlton Heston's|autobiography. {156540}{156580}And that's that. {156591}{156664}I mean, you know...|I mean, occasionally, maybe... {156681}{156791}Debby and I will step outside,|we'll go to a party or something. {156816}{156903}And if I can occasionally get my little talent|together and write a little play... {156924}{156979}...well, then that's just...|that's just wonderful. {156992}{157065}And I mean, I enjoy reading about|other little plays people have written... {157082}{157167}...and reading the reviews of those plays|and what people said about them... {157188}{157268}...and what people said|about what people said. {157286}{157399}And I mean, I have... I have a list of errands|and responsibilities that I keep in a notebook. {157424}{157484}I enjoy going through the notebook... {157499}{157559}...carrying out the responsibilities,|doing the errands... {157574}{157654}...and crossing them off the list. {157673}{157783}And, I mean, I just... I just don't know|how anybody could enjoy anything more... {157807}{157917}...than I enjoy, uh, reading|Charlton Heston's autobiography... {157943}{158013}...or, uh, you know, uh,|getting up in the morning... {158029}{158117}...and having the cup of cold coffee|that's been waiting for me all night... {158137}{158200}...still there for me|to drink in the morning... {158215}{158300}...and no cockroach or fly|has-has died in it overnight. {158320}{158385}I mean, I'm just so thrilled|when I get up... {158404}{158489}...and I see that coffee there,|just the way I wanted it. {158509}{158567}I mean, I just can't imagine... {158581}{158646}...how anybody could enjoy something else|any more than that. {158662}{158757}I mean... I mean, obviously, if the cockroach...|if there is a dead cockroach in it... {158778}{158848}...well, then I just have a feeling|of disappointment, and I'm sad. {158866}{158943}But I mean, I... I just...|I just don't think... {158962}{159019}I feel the need for anything more|than all this. {159034}{159099}Whereas, you know,|you seem to be saying... {159114}{159187}...that, uh... {159204}{159287}...it's inconceivable that anybody could|be having a meaningful life today... {159306}{159361}...and, you know,|everyone is totally destroyed... {159375}{159437}...and we all need to live|in these outposts. {159456}{159521}But I mean, you know,|I just can't believe... Even for you... {159537}{159619}I mean, don't you find... Isn't it pleasant|just to get up in the morning... {159639}{159726}...and there's Chiquita,|there are the children... {159747}{159807}...and The Times is delivered,|you can read it. {159821}{159894}I mean, maybe you'll direct a play,|maybe you won't direct a play. {159911}{159976}But forget about the play|that you may or may not direct. {159993}{160108}Why is it necessary to...Why not lean back|and just enjoy these details? {160133}{160246}I mean, and there'd be a delicious cup|of coffee and a piece of coffeecake. {160271}{160339}I mean, why is it necessary|to have more than this... {160355}{160413}...or to even think about|having more than this? {160426}{160509}I mean, I don't really know|what you're talking about. {160564}{160632}I mean... I mean,|I know what you're talking about... {160648}{160718}...but I don't really know|what you're talking about. {160736}{160816}And I mean, you know, even if I were|to totally agree with you, you know... {160834}{160914}...and even if I were to accept the idea|that there's just no way for anybody... {160934}{160984}...to have personal happiness now... {160996}{161056}...well, you know,|I still couldn't accept the idea... {161071}{161136}...that the way to make life wonderful|would be to just totally... {161152}{161210}...you know,|reject Western civilization... {161224}{161307}...and fall back into some kind of belief|in some kind of weird something... {161325}{161385}I mean, I don't even know how|to begin talking about this... {161403}{161486}...but you know, in the Middle Ages... {161505}{161595}...before the arrival of|scientific thinking as we know it today... {161617}{161674}...well, people could believe anything. {161689}{161754}Anything could be true...|the statue of the Virgin Mary... {161769}{161819}...could speak or bleed|or whatever it was. {161833}{161883}But the wonderful thing|that happened... {161895}{161970}...was that then in the development|of science in the Western world... {161988}{162105}...certain things did come slowly|to be known and understood. {162132}{162197}I mean, you know... {162213}{162298}...obviously, all ideas in science|are constantly being revised. {162318}{162365}I mean, that's the whole point. {162378}{162503}But we do at least know that the universe|has some shape and order... {162530}{162643}...and that, uh, you know, trees do not|turn into people or goddesses... {162668}{162726}...and there are very good reasons|why they don't... {162740}{162798}...and you can't just believe|absolutely anything. {162812}{162860}Whereas, the things|that you're talking about... {162872}{162960}I mean... I mean, you found|the handprint in the book... {162980}{163080}...and there were... There were three Andr�s|and one Antoine de Saint-Exup�ry. {163103}{163170}And to me that is a coincidence. {163187}{163262}But...And-And then, you know,|the people who put that book together... {163279}{163334}...well, they had their own reasons|for putting it together. {163349}{163429}But to you it was significant, as if that book|had been written 40 years ago... {163447}{163545}...so that you would see it,|as if it was planned for you, in a way. {163571}{163621}I mean, really... I mean... {163633}{163748}I mean, all right, let's say, if I get|a fortune cookie in a Chinese restaurant... {163774}{163824}I mean, of course,|even I have a tendency... {163837}{163907}I mean, you know... I mean, of course,|I would hardly throw it out. {163924}{163996}I mean, I read it.|I read it, and... And, uh... {164014}{164096}I just instinctively sort of...|You know, if it says something like, uh... {164116}{164206}"A conversation with a dark-haired man|will be very important for you"... {164226}{164301}...well, I just instinctively think, you know,|"Who do I know who has dark hair? {164320}{164390}Did we have a conversation?|What did we talk about?" {164406}{164514}In other words, uh, there's something|in me that makes me read it... {164538}{164628}...and I instinctively interpret it|as if it were an omen of the future. {164649}{164739}But in my conscious opinion, which is|so fundamental to my whole view of life... {164760}{164838}I mean, I would just have to change totally|to not have this opinion. {164856}{164906}In my conscious opinion,|this is simply something... {164919}{165024}...that was written in the cookie factory|several years ago and in no way refers to me. {165047}{165115}I mean, you know,|the... The fact that I got it... {165131}{165199}I mean, the man who wrote it|did not know anything about me. {165215}{165265}I mean, he could not have known|anything about me. {165279}{165346}There's no way that this cookie|could actually have to do with me. {165363}{165425}And the fact that I've gotten it|is just basically a joke. {165441}{165511}And I mean, if I were gonna go|on a trip on an airplane... {165527}{165577}...and I got a fortune cookie|that said " Don't go"... {165590}{165685}I mean, of course, I admit I might feel|a bit nervous for about one second. {165707}{165770}But in fact, I would go because,|I mean... {165785}{165845}...that trip is gonna be successful|or unsuccessful... {165860}{165925}...based on the state of the airplane|and the state of the pilot. {165940}{166008}And the cookie is in no position|to know about that. {166024}{166072}And I mean, you know, it's the same... {166084}{166154}...with any kind of, uh, prophecy,|or a sign, or an omen. {166172}{166282}Because if you believe in omens,|then that means that the universe... {166306}{166366}I mean, I don't even know how|to begin to describe this. {166382}{166467}That means that the future|is somehow sending messages... {166489}{166539}...backwards to the present. {166552}{166635}Which-Which means that the future|must exist in some sense already... {166654}{166729}...in order to be able|to send these messages. {166747}{166849}And it also means that things in the universe|are there for a purpose... To give us messages. {166873}{166933}Whereas I think that things|in the universe are just there. {166947}{166995}I mean, they don't mean anything. {167007}{167120}I mean, you know, if the turtle's egg falls out|of the tree and splashes on the paving stones... {167145}{167223}...it's just because that turtle was clumsy...|by accident. {167241}{167344}And-And to decide whether to send|my ships off to war on the basis of that... {167367}{167417}...seems a big mistake to me. {167433}{167521}Well, what information would|you send your ships to war on? {167544}{167586}Because if it's all meaningless... {167598}{167645}...what's the difference whether|you accept the fortune cookie... {167661}{167711}...or the statistics|of the Ford Foundation? {167724}{167774}It doesn't seem to matter. {167786}{167889}Well, the meaningless fact|of the fortune cookie or the turtle's egg... {167912}{168007}...can't possibly have any relevance|to the subject you're analyzing. {168030}{168110}Whereas a group of meaningless facts|that are collected and interpreted... {168128}{168213}...in a scientific way|may quite possibly be relevant. {168233}{168300}Because the wonderful thing|about scientific theories about things... {168317}{168407}...is that they're based on experiments|that can be repeated. {168458}{168506}Hmm. {168961}{169014}Well, it's true, Wally. {169027}{169095}I mean, you know,|following omens and so on... {169111}{169181}...is probably just a way|of letting ourselves off the hook... {169198}{169305}...so that we don't have to take individual|responsibility for our own actions. {169330}{169387}But I mean, giving yourself over|to the unconscious... {169402}{169534}...can leave you vulnerable to all sorts|of very frightening manipulation. {169564}{169646}And in all the work that I was involved in,|there was always that danger. {169666}{169756}And there was always that question|of tampering with people's lives... {169776}{169866}...because if I lead one of these workshops,|then I do become partly a doctor... {169888}{169940}...and partly a therapist,|and partly a priest. {169954}{170064}And I'm not a doctor,|or a therapist, or a priest. {170088}{170153}And already some|of these new monasteries... {170169}{170231}...or communities or whatever|we've been talking about... {170247}{170299}...are becoming institutionalized... {170313}{170393}...and I guess even in a way, at times,|sort of fascistic. {170411}{170511}You know, there's a sort of self-satisfied|elitist paranoia that grows up... {170535}{170610}...a feeling of" them" and " us"...|that is very unsettling. {170631}{170736}But I mean, uh, the thing is, Wally, I think|it's the exaggerated worship of science... {170759}{170807}...that has led us into this situation. {170819}{170884}I mean, science has been held up to us|as a magical force... {170901}{170951}...that would somehow solve everything. {170963}{171018}Well, quite the contrary.|It's done quite the contrary. {171032}{171082}It's destroyed everything. {171095}{171143}So that is what has really led,|I think... {171155}{171255}...to this very strong, deep reaction|against science that we're seeing now... {171278}{171345}...just as the Nazi demons that were|released in the '30s in Germany... {171362}{171457}...were probably a reaction against|a certain oppressive kind of knowledge... {171478}{171541}...and culture and rational thinking. {171556}{171644}So I agree that we're talking about|something potentially very dangerous. {171664}{171744}But modern science has not been|particularly less dangerous. {171764}{171814}Right. Well, I agree with you. {171826}{171874}I completely agree. {171940}{172003}No, you know, the truth is... {172018}{172121}I think I do know what really disturbs me|about the work you've described... {172144}{172219}...and I don't even know if I can express it. {172237}{172334}But somehow it seems that the whole point|of the work that you did in those workshops... {172357}{172454}...when you get right down to it|and you ask what was it really about... {172477}{172524}The whole point, really, I think... {172537}{172617}...was to enable the people in the workshops,|including yourself... {172635}{172743}...to somehow sort of strip away|every scrap of purposefulness... {172767}{172832}...from certain selected moments. {172848}{172928}And the point of it was so that you would|then all be able to experience... {172947}{173027}...somehow just pure being. {173046}{173143}In other words, you were trying to discover what|it would be like to live for certain moments... {173166}{173243}...without having any particular thing|that you were supposed to be doing. {173262}{173319}And I think|I just simply object to that. {173334}{173411}I mean, I just don't think I accept the idea|that there should be moments... {173430}{173485}...in which you're not trying|to do anything. {173498}{173598}I think, uh,|it's our nature, uh, to do things. {173622}{173669}I think we should do things. {173681}{173733}I think that, uh, purposefulness... {173747}{173854}...is part of our ineradicable|basic human structure. {173879}{173949}And to say that we ought to|be able to live without it... {173966}{174066}...is like saying that, uh, a tree ought to|be able to live without branches or roots. {174089}{174156}But... But actually, without branches|or roots, it wouldn't be a tree. {174173}{174243}I mean, it would just be a log.|Do you see what I'm saying? {174259}{174302}Uh-huh. Uh-huh. {174313}{174396}I mean, in other words, if I'm sitting at home|and I have nothing to do... {174419}{174466}...well, I naturally reach for a book. {174479}{174571}I mean, what would be so great about|just sitting there and, uh, doing nothing? {174592}{174639}It just seems absurd. {174652}{174689}And if Debby is there? {174736}{174783}Well, that's just the same thing. {174796}{174868}I mean, is there really|such a thing as, uh... {174886}{174983}...two people doing nothing|but just being together? {175006}{175056}I mean, would they simply then... {175068}{175143}...be, uh, " relating,"|to use the word we're always using? {175162}{175209}I mean, what would that mean? {175222}{175272}I mean, either we're|gonna have a conversation... {175284}{175337}...or we're going to, uh,|carry out the garbage... {175354}{175441}...or we're going to do something,|separately or together. {175462}{175509}I mean, do you see what I'm saying? {175521}{175618}I mean, what does it mean|to just, uh, simply, uh, sit there? {175641}{175698}That makes you nervous. {175713}{175823}Well, well, why shouldn't it make me nervous?|It just seems ridiculous to me. {175848}{175898}That's interesting, Wally. {175941}{176036}You know, when I went to Ladakh in western|Tibet and stayed on a farm for a month... {176057}{176155}...well, there, you know, when people come over|in the evening for tea, nobody says anything. {176177}{176230}Unless there's something to say,|but there almost never is. {176243}{176331}So they just sit there and drink their tea,|and it doesn't seem to bother them. {176441}{176509}I mean, you see, the trouble, Wally,|with always being active and doing things... {176525}{176603}...is that I think it's quite possible|to do all sorts of things... {176621}{176706}...and at the same time|be completely dead inside. {176726}{176786}I mean, you're doing all these things,|but are you doing them... {176800}{176853}...because you really feel|an impulse to do them... {176866}{176936}...or are you doing them mechanically,|as we were saying before? {176954}{177019}Because I really do believe|that if you're just living mechanically... {177034}{177089}...then you have to change your life. {177104}{177179}I mean, you know, when you're young,|you go out on dates all the time. {177196}{177269}You go dancing or something.|You're floating free. {177286}{177364}And then one day suddenly|you find yourself in a relationship... {177385}{177437}...and suddenly everything freezes. {177451}{177521}And this can be true|in your work as well. {177538}{177608}And I mean, of course,|if you're really alive inside... {177625}{177672}...then of course there's no problem. {177685}{177742}I mean, if you're living with somebody|in one little room... {177757}{177827}...and there's a life going on between you|and the person you're living with... {177843}{177953}...well, then a whole adventure|can be going on right in that room. {177979}{178069}But there's always the danger|that things can go dead. {178089}{178179}Then I really do think you have to kind of|become a hobo or something, you know... {178201}{178253}...like Kerouac,|and go out on the road. {178266}{178321}I really believe that. {178335}{178433}You know, it's not that wonderful|to spend your life on the road. {178455}{178568}My own overwhelming preference|is to stay in that room if you can. {178592}{178672}But you know, if you live with somebody for|a long time, people are constantly saying... {178692}{178782}"Well, of course it's not as great|as it used to be, but that's only natural. {178802}{178890}The first blush of a romance goes,|and that's the way it has to be. " {178910}{178990}Now, I totally disagree with that. {179010}{179125}But I do think that you have to constantly ask|yourself the question, with total frankness: {179150}{179203}Is your marriage still a marriage? {179216}{179271}Is the sacramental element there? {179285}{179350}Just as you have to ask about|the sacramental element in your work... {179366}{179424}Is it still there? {179441}{179506}I mean, it's a very frightening thing, Wally,|to have to suddenly realize... {179521}{179629}...that, my God, I thought I was living my life,|but in fact I haven't been a human being. {179653}{179701}I've been a performer. {179713}{179791}I haven't been living. I've been acting.|I've... I've acted the role of the father. {179809}{179899}I've acted the role of the husband.|I've acted the role of the friend. {179921}{180006}I've acted the role of the writer,|or director, or what have you. {180025}{180120}I've lived in the same room with this person,|but I haven't really seen them. {180142}{180244}I haven't really heard them.|I haven't really been with them. {180268}{180333}Yeah, I know some people|are just sometimes... {180352}{180414}...uh, existing just side by side. {180432}{180555}I mean, uh, the other person's, uh, face|could just turn into a great wolf's face... {180582}{180652}...and, uh, it just wouldn't be noticed. {180670}{180752}And it wouldn't be noticed, no.|It wouldn't be noticed. {180808}{180863}I mean, when I was in Israel|a little while ago... {180876}{180941}I mean, I have this picture of Chiquita|that was taken when she... {180957}{181047}I always carry it with me. It was taken|when she was about 26 or something. {181068}{181138}And it's in summer,|and she's stretched out on a terrace... {181155}{181227}...in this sort of old-fashioned long skirt|that's kind of pulled up. {181245}{181307}And she's slim and sensual|and beautiful. {181323}{181433}And I've always looked at that picture|and just thought about just how sexy she looks. {181457}{181515}And then last year in Israel,|I looked at the picture... {181529}{181637}...and I realized that that face in the picture|was the saddest face in the world. {181661}{181739}That girl at that time was just lost... {181757}{181805}...so sad and so alone. {181817}{181907}I've been carrying this picture for years|and not ever really seeing what it is, you know. {181928}{182005}I just never really|looked at the picture. {182081}{182189}And then, at a certain point, I realized I'd|just gone for a good 18 years unable to feel... {182213}{182268}...except in the most extreme situations. {182282}{182357}I mean, to some extent, I still had|the ability to live in my work. {182378}{182425}That was why I was such a work junkie. {182438}{182543}That was why I felt that every play that I did|was a matter of my life or my death. {182566}{182619}But in my real life, I was dead. {182632}{182697}I was a robot. {182714}{182786}I mean, I didn't even allow myself|to get angry or annoyed. {182803}{182873}I mean, you know, today|Chiquita, Nicolas, Marina... {182890}{182988}All day long, as people do, they do things that|annoy me and they say things that annoy me. {183010}{183078}And today I get annoyed.|And they say, " Why are you annoyed?" {183094}{183147}And I say, " Because you're annoying,"|you know. {183207}{183265}And when I allowed myself|to consider the possibility... {183279}{183342}...of not spending|the rest of my life with Chiquita... {183361}{183451}I realized that what I wanted most in life|was to always be with her. {183513}{183596}But at that time, I hadn't learned what|it would be like to let yourself react... {183615}{183663}...to another human being. {183675}{183725}And if you can't react|to another person... {183738}{183818}...then there's no possibility|of action or interaction. {183837}{183962}And if there isn't, I don't really know|what the word " love" means... {183990}{184110}...except duty, obligation,|sentimentality, fear. {184208}{184271}I mean... {184314}{184364}I don't know about you, Wally, but I... {184380}{184480}I just had to put myself into a kind of training|program to learn how to be a human being. {184502}{184557}I mean, how did I feel about anything?|I didn't know. {184572}{184679}What kind of things did I like? What kind of|people did I really want to be with? You know? {184703}{184763}And the only way|that I could think of to find out... {184778}{184876}...was to just cut out all the noise|and stop performing all the time... {184898}{184983}...and just listen to what was inside me. {185003}{185078}See, I think a time comes|when you need to do that. {185095}{185170}Now, maybe in order to do it,|you have to go to the Sahara... {185189}{185239}...and maybe you can do it at home. {185251}{185309}But you need to cut out the noise. {185449}{185499}Yeah. Of course, personally,|I- I just, uh... {185512}{185602}I usually don't, uh...|like those quiet moments, you know. {185623}{185666}I really don't. {185677}{185795}I mean, uh, I don't know if|it's that, uh, Freudian thing or what... {185821}{185886}But, uh, you know, the fear|of unconscious impulses... {185902}{185982}...or my own aggression|or whatever, but, uh... {186000}{186093}...if things get too quiet, and I find myself|just, uh, sitting there... {186114}{186162}...you know,|as we were saying before... {186174}{186289}I mean, whether I'm by myself,|or-or I'm-I'm with someone else... {186316}{186393}I just, uh...|I just have this feeling of... {186411}{186511}...uh, my God,|I'm going to be revealed. {186537}{186639}In other words, I'm adequate|to do any sort of a task, um... {186663}{186760}...but I'm not adequate, uh,|just to... To be a human being. {186783}{186830}I mean, in other words, I'm not, uh... {186843}{186925}If I'm just, uh, trapped there|and I'm not allowed to do things... {186945}{187030}...but all I can do is just,|um, be there... {187049}{187107}...well, I'll just fail. {187121}{187169}I mean, in other words, uh... {187181}{187241}I can pass any other sort of a test... {187257}{187352}...and, you know, I can even get an " A"|if I put in the required effort... {187373}{187426}...but I just don't, uh... {187442}{187507}I just don't have a clue|how to pass this test. {187526}{187611}I mean... I mean, of course,|I realize this isn't a test... {187631}{187699}...but, um, I see it as a test... {187714}{187764}...and I feel I'm going to fail it. {187778}{187825}I mean, it's... it's very scary. {187838}{187945}I just feel, uh,just totally at sea.|I mean... {187970}{188030}Well, you know,|I could imagine a life, Wally... {188044}{188164}...in which each day would become|an incredible, monumental, creative task... {188192}{188247}...and we're not necessarily up to it. {188260}{188345}I mean, if you felt like walking out|on the person you live with, you'd walk out. {188365}{188415}Then if you felt like it,|you'd come back. {188428}{188518}But meanwhile, the other person|would have reacted to your walking out. {188542}{188622}It would be a life of such feeling. {188641}{188698}I mean, what was amazing|in the workshops I led... {188713}{188803}...was how quickly people seemed|to fall into enthusiasm... {188823}{188931}...celebration,joy, wonder,|abandon, wildness, tenderness. {188955}{189010}Could we stand to live like that? {189025}{189100}Yeah, I think it's that moment of contact|with another person. {189117}{189165}I mean, that's what scares us. {189177}{189262}I mean, that moment of being|face to face with another person. {189282}{189329}I mean, now... {189342}{189447}You wouldn't think it would be so frightening.|It's strange that we find it so frightening. {189471}{189519}Well, it isn't that strange. {189530}{189610}I mean, first of all, there are some|pretty good reasons for being frightened. {189630}{189737}I mean, you know, the human being|is a complex and dangerous creature. {189762}{189827}I mean, really,|if you start living each moment? {189842}{189892}Christ, that's quite a challenge. {189906}{189996}I mean, if you really reach out and you're|really in touch with the other person... {190016}{190101}...well, that really is something|to strive for, I think, I really do. {190121}{190188}Yeah, it's just so pathetic|if one doesn't do that. {190205}{190312}Of course there's a problem, because the closer|you come, I think, to another human being... {190340}{190415}...the more completely mysterious...|and unreachable... {190433}{190480}...that person becomes. {190493}{190585}I mean, you know, you have to reach out,|you have to go back and forth with them... {190607}{190704}...and you have to relate, and yet you're|relating to a ghost or something. {190727}{190777}I don't know,|because we're ghosts. {190789}{190884}We're phantoms.|Who are we? {190907}{190977}And that's to face, to confront the fact|that you're completely alone. {190993}{191063}And to accept that you're alone|is to accept death. {191080}{191160}You mean, because somehow when you|are alone, you're alone with death. {191179}{191284}I mean, nothing's obstructing your view of it,|or something like that. {191308}{191353}Right. {191364}{191437}You know, if I understood it correctly,|I think, uh, Heidegger said... {191454}{191559}...that, uh, if you were to experience|your own being to the full... {191584}{191709}...you'd be experiencing the decay|of that being toward death... {191736}{191794}...as a part of your experience. {191808}{191888}You know, in the sexual act there's|that moment of complete forgetting... {191907}{191947}...which is so incredible. {191958}{192013}Then in the next moment,|you start to think about things: {192027}{192082}...work on the play,|what you've got to do tomorrow. {192096}{192184}I don't know if this is true of you,|but I think it must be quite common. {192204}{192267}The world comes in quite fast. {192281}{192369}Now, that again may be because we're|afraid to stay in that place of forgetting... {192389}{192439}...because that, again, is close to death. {192453}{192513}Like people|who are afraid to go to sleep. {192527}{192625}In other words, you interrelate, and you|don't know what the next moment will bring. {192647}{192697}And to not know|what the next moment will bring... {192711}{192761}...brings you closer|to a perception of death. {192773}{192866}You see, that's why I think|that people have affairs. {192887}{192947}I mean, you know, in the theater,|if you get good reviews... {192962}{193022}...you feel for a moment|that you've got your hands on something. {193037}{193092}You know what I mean?|I mean, it's a good feeling. {193106}{193163}But then that feeling goes quite quickly. {193178}{193260}And once again you don't know|quite what you should do next. {193280}{193320}What'll happen? {193330}{193393}Well, have an affair,|and up to a certain point... {193412}{193477}...you can really feel|that you're on firm ground, you know. {193492}{193582}There's a sexual conquest to be made.|There are different questions. {193604}{193654}Does she enjoy the ears being nibbled? {193666}{193751}How intensely can you talk about Schopenhauer|at some elegant French restaurant? {193771}{193831}Whatever nonsense it is. {193846}{193946}It's all, I think, to give you the semblance|that there's firm earth. {193969}{194066}Well, have a real relationship|with a person that goes on for years... {194089}{194156}That's completely unpredictable. {194173}{194253}Then you've cut off all your ties to the land,|and you're sailing into the unknown... {194271}{194331}...into uncharted seas. {194349}{194464}I mean, you know, people hold on to these|images of father, mother, husband, wife... {194493}{194541}...again for the same reason... {194553}{194638}'cause they seem to provide|some firm ground. {194661}{194719}But there's no wife there. {194733}{194783}What does that mean?|A wife. {194796}{194863}A husband. A son. {194880}{194930}A baby holds your hands... {194943}{195033}...and then suddenly there's this huge man|lifting you off the ground... {195054}{195101}...and then he's gone. {195114}{195161}Where's that son? {195746}{195846}All the other customers|seemed to have left hours ago. {195869}{195974}We got the bill,|and Andr� paid for our dinner. {195997}{196035}Really? {196830}{196885}I treated myself to a taxi. {196942}{197004}I rode home through the city streets. {197052}{197120}There wasn't a street,|there wasn't a building... {197136}{197216}...that wasn't connected|to some memory in my mind. {197278}{197355}There, I was buying a suit|with my father. {197451}{197536}There, I was having|an ice cream soda after school. {197676}{197761}When I finally came in,|Debby was home from work... {197781}{197868}...and I told her everything|about my dinner with Andr�. {197908}{198308}Downloaded From www.AllSubs.org 143020