All language subtitles for The.Vow.S02E05.WEBRip.x264

You should
assume that everything

I'm gonna tell you
is secret for now.

And I want you guys
to come up with a plan

of how to implement this stuff.

Just imagine someone that
you really, really care for,

your best friend or a child
or whatever, become delusional

and start hurting
people or whatever.

What is the procedure
you would use with them?

Exile.

We're not out to punish them.

We are out to rehabilitate them

or stop them from
damaging others

because of their illness.

So you exile them to some place

in the hopes that
they will come around.

Maybe you exile them
for an amount of time

or forever.

And it's a type of shunning.

It's the, uh, ultimate
shunning so to speak.

An update
as the NXIVM trial

continues in federal court.

The woman allegedly
kept confined to a room

is expected to be
on the stand today.

This witness
says that she and her family

traveled to the United States

specifically to
take NXIVM courses.

But she says, instead
of being taught

self-improvement,
she was broken.

When I
think about the crimes

that were being committed,
some of the most serious

related to the
imprisonment of Daniela.

I thought it would
also be very impactful

to the jury as they
learned about this family

and the way it was
systematically destroyed.

- Good morning, Daniela.
- Good morning.

How do you describe
your childhood?

My childhood
was idyllic.

We grew up in a relatively
abundant financial setting.

My family was like
the center of gravity.

I felt safe.

I had a very good
relationship with my parents.

And my elder sister,
Marianna, was my best friend.

They used to joke
about our family,

saying that we were
like the Flanders

in The Simpsons because
we got along so well.

It was a pretty
wonderful way to grow up.

Can you provide the
first names of the members

of your immediate family?

My father is
Hector. My mother, Adriana.

My elder sister, Marianna.

My little brother, Adrian.
And my baby sister, Camila.

I
remember that the parents

took the training in Mexico
and then came to Albany.

Keith had a very private
relationship with the parents.

And they were very close.

No, no, no.

They saw Keith as a
mentor, a teacher, a guru

who you put ultimate faith in

and trust more than
you trust yourself.

This...

In Mexico, a lot of
powerful families

were connected to NXIVM

and Daniela's mother and
father were convinced

that Keith Raniere and
the NXIVM community

were good.

And that they would be
good for their children.

Daniela, when did you
first become involved in NXIVM?

In 2002,

during my second
semester of high school.

At that time, I
was preparing to go

to an elite school
in Switzerland.

I was being granted
the only scholarship

that they gave out that year.

As a parting gift
before I went to school,

my parents enrolled me
into a 16-Day Intensive.

Hector and Adriana
brought Dani and Marianna.

Bye.

And then, they
went back to Mexico.

Aw, Keith.

- Soon?
- Yeah.

- Pronto. Soon.
- Yeah.

But Dani and
Marianna were left behind.

Have fun. Bye.

Pam and Keith
must have appeared

to be a couple to them.

We all believed Pam
was like a saint.

She gave Keith credibility.

So here they are...

these young teenage girls.

I remember the day that their
parents dropped them off

on NXIVM's door stoop.

Suddenly Marianna is
hooked at the hip with Pam.

She's getting a little
bit out of hand.

What's gonna happen
when your mommy comes?

You've changed mamas.

Pam was
like, "Well, you know,

she's my little sister. I'm
taking her under my wing."

I'm like, "Okay."

It was puzzling.

Are you guys coming
back to Flintlock?

And then the
next thing I knew,

Dani started to
hang out with Keith.

This is more of a
dissonant version.

First cymbals.

Dani and Marianna

and Pam and Keith had
their special relationship.

They were like a family.

Everybody who had a close
relationship with Keith

was jealous of at least
one of the daughters.

Because they
saw that there was like

this really special
relationship with that family.

Very
subtle. Very subtle.

I'll take a bite.

- There's an interesting problem.
- Mm-hmm.

Think about this, Dani.

If there's someone in
the woods and they know

that they are exactly one mile
from the edge of the woods,

they just don't
know what direction.

What is the optimal path
for them to travel...

to be able to get
out of the woods?

And in particular,

what is the longest distance
they will have to travel

before they ultimately find
their way out of the woods?

Right.

I remember
in the early days,

Keith sounding perfectly.

He gave me a brain teaser

and I gave him the
answer right away.

He seemed very pleased.

He said, "Don't go to
school, I will teach you."

And how old
were you at that point?

I was 16.

She was so brilliant.
She's so curious.

She's so engaged. She
has so much potential.

She had this scholarship
to study in Switzerland.

But ultimately, she doesn't go.

Uh-uh.

I have...

He told me that
Dani was brilliant.

Like a Mega Society brilliant.

And so what
Keith wanted her to do

was follow him around
with a video camera.

Dani, the camera woman.

He wanted
his life documented

because future generations
would want access to it.

The best movie...

is where the audience walks away

thinking they know
the character.

And that'd be a valuable thing

'cause if people came to know
how I worked in the world,

well, you know, a lot of
the rumors wouldn't be true.

They don't seem to catch any
of my humanity or my humor,

but they don't seem to catch
any of my abilities, either.

What do you think, Dani?

But, like, you don't have
me jumping over... someone.

How did I look
going over people?

He wanted everything videoed.

I like the way you
opened that cereal, Keith.

Yeah?

The rest of the world
will appreciate it as well.

No. No, never.

Keith was always saying, "If
anybody ever scrutinizes us,

they'll see the videos
and they'll know

we didn't do anything wrong."

Be good if you had
several cameras.

- You know what I mean?
- Mm-hmm.

Is that any good?

- Is that one?
- Have you read that one?

No, I haven't read it. I know
about that particular book.

Some of these books I know about
and some of them I've read.

Daniela was
working for Raniere.

So basically, he
would have her read

incredibly complex
books on science

and give him abridged versions
of what the books were about.

And she was pretty smart,
so she could do it.

Did you ever get
paid for the book reports?

No. Because I was
there on a visitor's visa.

They couldn't figure
out how to pay me.

I had no structure, no job,
and no legal way to make money.

Did there come a
time when you took money

from the office?

Yes. About a year
into my time at NXIVM,

I stole six thousand dollars
from the admin office.

It was a stupid,
impulsive decision

and I felt terrible about it.

So I put the money
back right away,

but the feeling of
guilt consumed me.

Daniela makes the mistake
of confessing this

to Keith Raniere. Keith
Raniere tells her,

"Okay, I'm going to have
to tell Nancy Salzman."

Most of my beliefs about
people in the organization

were colored by the
things Keith told me.

And so he caused
me not to like her.

Or, you know, to have feelings
about her, like she was sneaky.

And then he told me other things
where she was problematic.

How did your relationship
with the defendant change?

At the time,

it felt like everyone
thought I was bad.

And he didn't adopt that stance.

He kept being my friend.

I became
closer to him.

I remember one day,

we were in the room next
to Prefect's office.

The door was closed.

I was telling him how my
parents were getting a divorce.

And then, in the
middle of sharing this,

he moved closer and kissed me.

Did the
defendant say anything?

He asked me if I
liked that he had done that.

What did you say?

I said, "Yes."

But, I mean, the truth is,
I had never been kissed

or had any type
of sexual contact.

When I got home, I received
a phone call from Keith.

He said, "I think it's better

if you don't tell
anybody about our kiss.

I think that should
stay between us."

And I complied.

But I look back,

I think I could have changed
the course of history

if I had told my mother.

I mean, I don't think
she would have been

very happy to hear
that a 40-year-old man

had kissed her
17-year-old daughter.

Vanguard or not.

After that night,

did the nature of the
conversations progress?

Yes. They
escalated in a sexual way.

One night, there was, like,
open flirting going on.

But I was extremely shy,

so it took a lot of
prodding on his part

to really move the conversation
forward in that way.

But he'd also say,

"We can't have sex
because you're too young."

And so, he'd basically
tell me about his sex life.

So then, was
your 18th birthday

something that was
being built up to?

Yes. In fact,

there was a particular
conversation that happened

maybe a month or so before.

We were at volleyball.

He said, "Your
birthday is coming up.

What do you want
for your birthday?"

And in my mind,

the clear answer
was, "I want sex."

But I was still too
shy to say that.

So he said, "Well, if
you're too shy to say it,

why don't you just write
it on the palm of my hand?"

So with my hand I
spelled out S-E-X.

I remember feeling
very insecure.

He said, "Is there something
that you're insecure about?"

I told him I was insecure
about my body. That I felt fat.

And he said I needed
to lose weight.

That when a woman
was overweight,

it interrupted the energy.

So he couldn't share
his sexual energy

with somebody like that.

I felt rejected.

But then, he called
me a few days later

and he said it was time.

He told me to meet
him at the office

of an old business he had.

What happened
when you got there?

He led me to this
room that had a dim light,

so I couldn't see very well.
There were stacks of boxes

and on the floor, there
was an old dirty mattress

that had, like, raggy,
used sheets on it.

He asked me
to take my clothes off

and lay down, so I did.

Then, he too started
doing oral sex on me.

Eventually,
he took off his clothes

and he climbed on top of me

for a little while and
gave me a long hug.

And then, he just
got up, got dressed,

and I drove him home.

Daniela, she was young

and with a man who
was in his forties.

Raniere is someone
that she adores.

Possibly worships.

Like the power dynamic
is so messed up.

You already have someone who
is incredibly impressionable

and then she's humiliated
for making that request

for sex for her 18th birthday.

Which she is confused
about wanting

and can't consult anyone about

because she is young and
she is alone in Albany

with all of these...

Where no one's
supervising Raniere,

where there are no
ethical checks on Raniere.

These are the first
sexual encounters.

This is the foundation
upon which she, like,

understands sex

and sex as it relates
to relationships.

After you began having
sex with the defendant,

what changed?

My entire life changed.

I mean, I had full
access to Keith

and I became part
of the inner circle.

I was literally spending

all my waking
moments in Flintlock.

Flintlock was a place

that was almost
exclusively accessed

by members of the inner circle.
And specifically, mostly people

who were in a
sexual relationship

with Keith Raniere or
had been in the past.

Now it's f...

Every
time we were alone,

my role was to
give him oral sex.

My mind is racing as I
am listening to this,

because, you know, I'm
having flashbacks of memories

in Flintlock and around and...

You know, I've learned about
three women just this week

that Keith had sexual
relationships with

during the time I was there,
that I didn't know about.

One of them was Lauren,

and now I just
learned about Daniela.

The jurors have to understand

this is a very
clever, masterful,

artful manipulation of
people, and it's a chess game

and he's been
playing it for years.

And to him, we're just
pawns on that chess board.

So Daniela had a value
he wanted to extract.

And
the way to extract that

is by having an intimate
sexual connection.

What he wanted is her mind.

Did you ever
talk with the defendant

- about illegal activities?
- Yes.

There was a time when
Keith wanted to gain access

to a certain email account.

Keith said, "Do you
think you could do it?"

So I took it as a challenge.

Was the defendant
trying to gather information

- about other people?
- Yes.

There was a long list of people.

Who stands out?

Edgar Bronfman.
Claire Bronfman's father.

What Keith
Raniere wanted was to see

what connections there
were between Edgar Bronfman

and efforts to take
down the organization.

We were a little tiny
three-million-dollar business

and we ended up on
the cover of Forbes.

"You don't end up on
the cover of Forbes

as a three-million-dollar
company,

unless somebody puts you
there," is what Keith said.

He wanted to know who
paid for that article

'cause he believed that
that article was paid for

and we needed to get
to the bottom of it.

And I think that's probably why
he did the computer hacking.

I started researching

and discussing my
ideas with Keith.

I said, "Isn't this wrong?

NXIVM is supposed
to teach ethics

but this is illegal,
this is unethical.

Why are we breaking the rules?"

And Keith said, "Look,

if we're trying to
build a better world,

we have to do unethical
things ethically."

I think he found a way to...

find the personality
of each of us.

And know how to...

manipulate us.

He used people to
get what he wanted.

These were good people...

really good people
with amazing values,

led to believe...

that they were doing
something good.

Did there come a
time when you had difficulty

renewing your visa?

Yes.

My visa was withdrawn
in late 2004

and I was sent back to Mexico.

I was crushed because
I couldn't go back

for at least a year.

That's when Keith
said he came up

with a plan to bring me back.

Daniela ends
up flying to Canada

and being driven by
members of the enterprise

back to Clifton Park, New York.

Now, she's in the
United States illegally.

When I got back,

there was a Christmas
Eve get-together.

Merry Christmas.

And everyone,
including Keith,

were partaking in the fun.

Discussing the exploits
of this triumphant story

of how we'd successfully
crossed the border.

But later that night,
Keith, Marianna, and I

were just hanging
out in Flintlock.

And then, Keith
wanted to take a nap

with the both of us.

He brought us upstairs
and we laid down.

All of a sudden,

he's like, kissing
her and touching me.

It felt dirty. It was wrong.

So I start crying, then
Marianna starts crying.

Like, really messed up crying,
and eventually, he stopped.

Did you ever
discuss that incident

with the defendant?

No. I just
pretended it never happened

and he did exactly the same.

I had a conversation
with my daughter recently

who explained to me
that the only time

that Keith Raniere ever enjoyed
any kind of sexual relationship

was when there was something a
little bit depraved about it.

And I said, "What do you mean?"
And she... he said, like...

She said to me, like, "When
you went away on vacation,

he used to love to have
sex all over your house.

And you wouldn't know."

He would love that
sort of thing.

Or it had to be a threesome,

or it had to be some
kind of off thing.

Get it. Dani. Dani.

- It's just not okay.
- It's better with...

- You guys don't like it?
- It's okay.

- It's better than putting it...
- A scrunchie!

It's so pretty, it's
distracting to your team.

- That's the problem.
- Well, that's not okay.

If we start blowing
points over it...

- Yeah, true.
- Then that's a problem.

I remember

all of a sudden,
Marianna and Daniela

were talking about
bringing their sister

and their brother,
Adrian and Camila,

to Albany as well.

Apparently, Keith thought
it would be a good idea

for the whole family
to be together here.

When they
first arrived,

they were spending
all their time

with us and Keith.
Almost like a family.

Keith's plan for Cami

was that she would clean
Nancy's house for money

to attend classes.

But the house they
found for her to live in

was far away from where I lived.

So shortly after they arrived,
I lost control of them.

Keith would give people

what he called
"affectionate," um, nicknames.

Camila's nickname was V.C.
I never knew what it was.

Did you ever
hear the defendant

say anything sexual in front
of your sister, Camila?

Yes. He would
make sexual jokes.

And he used to tease her
about her innocent demeanor.

He even nicknamed
her "Virgin Camila."

I met
Cami since I arrived.

I met the entire family.

Yeah, with Cami I... I felt
proud that she was so young.

I almost felt like, "Oh, my God,
I wish I would have had that.

Your entire family committed

to personal growth,
to community,

to loving each other."

And...

I had no idea, no clue...

by then that she was going
through such hard times.

When Camila first
came, she was very sweet.

She was everybody's favorite.

As time went on...

she became more
and more withdrawn

and it became harder and
harder to communicate with her.

And I would ask Keith questions
from time to time about Camila.

How come nobody knows
where she lives?

And he said to me,
"Well, you know,

her mother was very invasive

and she had no privacy

and privacy is very
important to her

and so she doesn't want anyone
to know where she lives."

Looking back now,

do you have any thoughts
on where Camila was placed?

I think it
was very manipulative.

She was isolated
for easy access.

Did you come to
learn that the defendant

was having sex with
your sister Camila?

Yes. Some time
around the fall of 2006,

I asked Keith if he was
having sex with Cami.

How did the
defendant respond?

He asked
me if I minded.

Then, he told me that
some girls were more

emotionally mature than others.

I also remember, on
top of being concerned

about him having a
relationship with her,

I was also kind of jealous.

He made me wait until
after my 18th birthday,

and he's having sex
with my sister now.

It's all kind of messed
up that I felt that way,

and I deeply regret that
I didn't at that moment

get my sister out of there.
But that's how it happened.

Keith Raniere's sexual
relationship with Camila

started when he was
already having sex

with both of her sisters.

I think for Daniela,

recounting the aspects of
her family's involvement

was incredibly painful

because they really
were so close-knit

until Keith Raniere
came into their lives.

Daniela, did
there come a time

when you became pregnant?

Yes. In late
2006. I was terrified.

What were
you terrified of?

Having a
baby with Keith.

I mean, I liked Keith.
In fact, I idolized him.

But he was with a
lot of other women,

including my sisters.

Plus, I was very young
and I didn't feel ready.

Did you tell anyone?

I told Keith.

His response was very
surprising to me.

He said, "It's not
the end of the world."

Then, he proceeded to
tell me about other women

who had had abortions in an
effort to make it normal.

Who did he mention?

Pam and my
sister, Marianna.

Did he talk through
any logistics with you?

Yes.

He said that he was
going to pay for it

and that Pam was going
to take me to the doctor

and stay with me throughout
the entire process.

Did you have any
conversations with Pam?

She said when they ask
about the father of the child,

under no circumstances
I was to name Keith.

Once the
abortion had happened,

did you talk to the
defendant about it?

Yes.

A few days after
we went on a walk,

and Keith told me that this
was a great opportunity

for me to lose
weight and get fit.

He said, in fact, that
there were Olympic athletes

that get pregnant on purpose
just to have an abortion

as part of their training.

How did you
feel when the defendant

said that to you?

Shocked.

You know,
very tough. Tough to hear.

I mean, I don't think
Keith committed a crime,

but I do think that...
that... The... the jury

is going to seriously
consider that evidence

when deciding whether

he is showing good
or bad intention.

I mean, so far,

there's a lot of evidence
of questionable behavior,

bad judgment, um, you
know, things like that.

But I don't know that

the government's really
made out the charges.

Uh, my fear is that
it's not gonna matter.

You know, that the jury's
gonna have a hard time

acquitting Keith just
because of, you know,

kind of the... the parade of
bad facts and bad evidence,

not necessarily
indicative of guilt

but just indicative
of, you know,

a... a... A radically
different lifestyle

that, uh, an average juror
really doesn't appreciate.

Can't convict him
because people came here

and said that they felt pain.
That's... That's not a crime.

Now, Daniela,
at some point

you had a falling-out with
the defendant, correct?

Yes, in 2006.

I started hanging out with
a fellow student at DSP.

One night, after
a community event,

I think the slang word
is, we "made out."

And it felt real. It
felt true. It felt nice.

Did you tell
anybody about this feeling

- that you experienced?
- Yes. I told Keith.

Why did you
tell the defendant?

I guess,
in all my innocence,

I thought he was my best friend.

I had nobody else to tell,

and it never crossed
my mind to hide it.

And how did
the defendant react?

Keith was angry.

I had never seen
him angry before,

and it was dramatic.

There was no reasoning with him.
It was this huge, huge fight.

He said I wasn't pure anymore,
that I had destroyed everything,

and that this was an
ethical breach for me.

He locked himself
up in the bathroom.

I remember Karen
asked me to leave

and I was like, "No. I
wanna figure this out.

This makes no sense to me."

He stayed in the bathroom
for a little while

and then he went upstairs. So
I chased him into Pam's room.

He grabbed me by the
arm and threw me over

onto a mattress on
the floor and ran out.

And that was the
end of the argument.

My life changed
completely overnight.

Just like sex with
Keith meant access,

not being with Keith meant
loss of access and isolation.

I couldn't be
anywhere Keith was.

Which meant I couldn't
go to volleyball

or any community
events whatsoever.

It was, like, an
immediate shunning.

Dani was painted

as being awful, nasty, prideful.

He never told me what
the problem really was.

What they were fighting over,
I wasn't allowed to know,

but I was asked
to work with her.

He paints this as
Daniela's only salvation.

That she's so prideful,
if we don't break it,

her life is going
to be miserable.

So I coached Daniela
and tried to help her

through whatever so-called
"pride issues" she had.

It was a problem
that was unfixable

'cause there was no problem.

She was interested
in another guy.

At one point,

I couldn't handle it
anymore, working with Dani.

And then he asked
Lauren to take over.

That's also when he instituted

the whole idea of
the room.

So was there an
additional escalation

in your punishment?

Yes.

They said, "You can
go into this room

with no possibility
of indulgences."

I remember asking how
long I need to stay,

and they said, "As
long as it takes

to heal your ethical breach."

By that point, Keith had
stopped talking to me

and the community
had shunned me.

They had taken all my
property, everything I owned,

including my papers.

So it was truly impossible
for me to leave.

I had no choice.

I went into the room
March 9th, 2010.

And I was there
for over two years.

The room was completely empty.

There was a one-and-a-half-inch
foam mattress on the floor

and the window had
been blocked out

so I couldn't look outside.

They gave me some paper and pen

because I was supposed to
write to Keith every day.

I'd write to Keith saying,

"I love you. I'm so
sorry I did this to you."

I tried to make the most
sincere apology possible

because that was
the only way out.

But none of it worked.

I had no books...

nothing to read...

nothing to listen to...

and nothing to grab onto.

At times, I would
lay on the ground

and listen through
the vent on the floor,

or with my ear to the
crack underneath the door,

trying to catch
any sounds I could.

I had no connection
to anything whatsoever.

When Lauren would
come, I hated her...

but she was the only
human that I was seeing,

so I was happy to see her.

Every conversation with
Lauren, it was all about Keith.

Because Keith,
through my letters,

was going to know
when I was ready

to leave the room.

I wasn't going to know.

My parents weren't.
It was Keith.

Keith was the one who
was going to determine

when I had healed
my ethical breach.

Marianna
was mostly living

with us at that point.

But Camila was there and
her brother was there.

They're the ones that
were feeding her.

But most of the community
didn't understand

why Dani wasn't around anymore.

I don't think many people knew.

I just wanted to illustrate
the point, I go nowhere

without my Guru.

There was a training right
before she went in the room.

It was all a set
up for her parents

to buy into that thing.

Community at first is
something we have to work at.

Work at ourselves to be able
to appreciate contributing

and what we get back so much

that we would not
have it any other way.

And when you look around,
you know, this community,

there are things that
all of you won't like.

There might be someone
in the community

that you think is going
and destroying everything.

And you know something, maybe
they don't even realize it.

You have to be willing to go
and give them the feedback.

That's part of being
in a community.

By your being able to do

the most distasteful
of activities,

you're gonna be the
agent of change.

The way that Keith
got Dani into the room

was by enrolling
her whole family

in the problem of Dani.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm?

It's hard for me
to explain exactly

the power that Keith
Raniere was able to have

over Daniela's family.

But it's this real, like,
this absolute trust in him.

Daniela is a very
family-oriented person

and the desperation

to maintain those relationships
with her family is in large part

what kept her committed
to staying in that room.

Meals were brought

to me by someone in my family.

They would knock on the door

and leave the plate on the
floor outside the bedroom,

so I would never see anyone.

Honestly, I broke
pretty quickly.

It's hard to describe
my emotional state.

But I'd get really
crazy and really dark.

After one of those episodes,

I would be completely
numb for days.

It felt like my breach
destroyed everything,

and I had to fix it.

So I started with my family.

I drafted a newsletter
that I would send

to every member of my family.

But that was shut down
as a huge indulgence.

At the time, my hair
hung below my waist

because Keith liked long hair,

but someone left
scissors in the bathroom

and I cut it off.

Lauren came with the big
news that cutting my hair

was a new, huge ethical breach.

She said, "Now you're going
to have to stay in this room

until your hair grows
back to where it was."

I remember thinking, "My
God! It's gonna be years."

Around that time,

I started accumulating
cleaning supplies,

and I thought, "Soon
as I have enough,

I'll just drink it and
everything will be over."

Then, I
looked out the window

and I saw this cardinal.

I don't know what
it was about that bird...

but at that moment, I
remember thinking...

"I want to live."

All of a sudden, there
was this sense of freedom.

I thought, "Fuck everyone.

I give up. I can't
do this anymore.

Go fuck yourselves.
I'm going to live."

I walked out of the
room, down the stairs,

and out the front door.

I was done.

Hard day.

I think I didn't expect it to
be this emotionally grueling.

I definitely got to a point...

not that long ago,
where I kind of

considered myself to
be fairly dead inside

because nothing, like I
had no reaction to so...

Like I had no reaction
basically to anything,

to, like, any
testimony.

And it still stands
for a lot of things.

Like, I can hear pretty
gruesome testimony

about a lot of different
things and it doesn't f...

It doesn't, like,
emotionally affect me,

but I have noticed
that the tra...

Like, that this
trial specifically...

...um,
like, sticks with me

and bothers me in ways...

that others haven't.

Whatever the
prosecution is doing

to paint Raniere
in a terrible light

has been so effective
on me that it's like,

I think it's because I feel,
like, a personal loathing

and it's... it's sticking.
It's all sticking.

I mean, I wasn't locked
in a room for two years,

but I heard about someone's
experience of that today

and, like, I'm gonna
continue to think about that

for a long time and, like,

I'm gonna carry that testimony
with me for a long time and I...

That's...

that's what it means
to bear witness

to something like
this, is that you take

a little bit of that with you.

Certainly,
her story on direct

was a very dramatic story

of her being locked in
the room against her will,

and... and, uh, you
know, kind of put upon

in all these different ways

and was the recipient
of attention

that she didn't want,

and the question is
whether that's whole story,

whether that story
is even valid.

Maybe the room was overkill,

maybe it was too much pressure.

You know, maybe it's appropriate
given the circumstances.

Maybe it's important that
her father who seems to be

a very capable,
intelligent, successful man

was, um, you know,
on board with this.

You know, maybe
that's significant.

I mean, this is his daughter
and if he's on board with this,

you have to ask yourself, "Why?"

And all the
facts aren't out yet

and we still have a ways to go.

We'll see what the
cross has to add.

Good afternoon, Daniela.

Good afternoon.

I want to ask you a few
questions about your father.

He wanted you to do well

- in the world, right?
- Yes.

And did you discuss
with your father the fact

that he wanted you to stay in
a room in your family's house

until you did certain things?

No. That...

That was not at
all the proposal.

Nor did I have a discussion
with just my father.

It was my father, my mother,
Lauren Salzman, and Karen.

Did they say that
you could do certain things

and leave the room?

No. I wasn't
given an actual plan

to go outside the room.

And before you
went in the room,

you started to write
to Keith, correct?

I had been writing

to Keith for years,
as instructed.

And what
you write here is,

"From my love to you

and what is
unfinished between us,

I gather the strength to
go against my own momentum

and be honest with myself."

This is a
very complex situation.

I'm getting drilled from
my parents and Karen

about how I should be doing,

what I have done,
and how bad I am.

I'm already very
isolated from everyone,

I'm very confused,
I'm very angry,

I'm pretty broken,

and there's a tightly
controlled environment

around me.

Well, at some
point, you decided

you wanted to leave
the room, correct?

Yes.

Were you
locked in the room?

No.

So you could open the door

and just walk out of the room
whenever you wanted, right?

No. That is not true.

Were you threatened

with something happening
to you if you left?

I had no money, no
papers, and I was threatened

with both being
sent back to Mexico

and also threatened with
being completely cut off

from everyone I knew.

And how old were you
when you went in the room?

I believe I was 24.

So you could
have left, right?

You were 24 years old,

and no one was forcing
you to stay, correct?

No.

That is not an
accurate statement.

Your Honor, I
have nothing else.

The crimes
that we charged

don't require there to be

any sort of physical
imprisonment.

Psychological coercion

doesn't depend on a
physically locked door.

There were all of these fences
that were keeping her in.

Someone on the outside
doesn't understand

the years and years
of manipulation

we all experienced.

You've got all these
ideas that Keith implanted

in your head...

leading you to make the
decision he wants you to make.

The reason why Dani
was in the room

was because she didn't
make the decisions

Keith wanted her to make.

It feels like he
went after the whole family,

which is similar to what
he did to my family.

But the parents weren't here.

I can't tell you how
sad I feel for Dani

and what she went through.

Even Marianna.

I feel... I feel
horrible for all of them.

But... but I feel
really sad for Camila

because that should
never have happened.

She is probably one of
the most damaged people

by Keith Raniere.

The prosecution
in the trial of NXIVM leader

Keith Raniere produced
240 pages of text messages

between one victim called
Camila and Raniere.

Going into this, I
thought Keith was innocent.

But when I got to
see the text thread

between Camila and Keith...

that was pretty much
what flipped me totally

to believe that Keith...

had done some very bad things.

I remember calling my attorney

and telling him
that I was wrong.

These texts are
the beginning of DOS.