Original subtitles

welcome to the Kennedy report I'm

Kennedy Hall I'm here with a friend

who's not my brother we just happen to

both be Canadian and wearing flannel and

having beards but that's just you're

actually required to look that way or

they kick out of the country so when

Joe comes to visit he's actually going

to have to have a flannel shirt and a

beard otherwise they won't let him in

it's actually it's a fact

and super special show tonight ladies

and gentlemen we've got our friend Rob Morrow here

who has an incredible story about

a friendship with none other than

the notorious Infamous mysterious whatever

adjective you want to use Malachi Martin

we had a huge reception to our Martin

episode and and Rob just fell

into my lap through mutual friend

and we've been talking

getting to know each other he's a great guy

he's got a great story

and we're going to share some information

about Malachi Martin that I don't know

if I've heard anywhere else

and there is a chance that Malachi and

Martin was actually a cardinal

of the Catholic church and this is something

we're going to talk about on this show

but first ladies and gentlemen

before we get going we're gonna just say

thank you to our friends

over at prey Latin so pre-latin is

an apostolate and business essentially

where they are giving people

the opportunity to learn how to say prayers

in Latin pray the traditional prayers

to Catholic church so you can see here

on the screen I have the Saint Michael

praying and I love these cards that they make

where you got to buy the card to see

the whole video obviously a little bit

of marketing involved there but they

show you where they actually have

the Latin word

and under it they have the phonetic spelling

and as someone who taught

languages for about a decade I can tell you

that these are extremely helpful and useful

I wish I had stuff like this when

I was teaching French and Spanish

to my students this is much more useful

than the the universal phonetic symbols

that no one knows anymore unless they're like

- you know - a Linguistics nerd like I was

students are not learning these things

so because we're talking

about Malachi Martin who was definitely

an enemy of the devil

I can imagine that the Old Scratch

as Martin called him probably doesn't

like us doing this stream so we're

actually going to start with the Saint

Michael Prayer in Latin

all right that's enough of me first

how's everybody doing tonight

doing well yeah Joe how are you buddy

doing well over here Kennedy are you

here to help are you living the dream

always here to help 24 7 365. yeah

that's right that's right the standby

and get some as Jacob

all right so Rob why don't you give us a

quick background and tell us how you

came to be a friend of Malachi Martin

okay very good

my most recent job since 19

1999 I was in

anti-money laundering

Financial crimes prevention compliance officer

in New York on Wall Street

prior to that it's almost 15 years

I was an operations officer with Central

Intelligence Agency

it's CIA

yes and it was during my tenure

with the CIA that I became friends

with a formal title Reverend Dr Malachi Martin

that I became friends with Father Malachi

and it's actually there's there's

no mystery about it

we have been talking about it earlier

today what brought about the meeting was

if you remember back in the early

I think it was 1991

the Irish singer Sinead O'Connor

appeared on the American TV show

Saturday Night Live and she held up

a picture of Pope John Paul II and

she said we have to fight the real enemy and

she ripped his picture up into little pieces on stage

and the next day

a priest at Old Saint Agnes's Church

before the wooden church burned down

Father John Pericon he gave a rousing

sermon about how

had that been done

to a picture of a prominent Jewish or

Muslim leader

that there would literally be crowds

of people outside of 30 Rockefeller plazas

stoning the building

he said but Catholics have been so conditioned

by a mistaken understanding of turning

the other cheek

that they're willing to almost accept anything

thrown their way

so I just went backstage backstage

I went back to the soccer city after Mass

to congratulate father

on the Excellence of this sermon and

we ended up meeting for some cheap

Chinese food on the upper west side

of Manhattan later that

and then of course the conversation

I told him that I was reading a book

entitled "The Keys of This Blood"

by Malachi Martin and he told me

he said oh he says I know Malachi

would you like to have dinner with him

some night

and I did my best not to leave out of my seat

and I said of course

you wouldn't

and it was it was that

that

meeting at a restaurant

on the Upper East Side of New York City

where we got there at about 6 p.m and

then I'm closing the restaurant around

11:30 only because the

the head waiter came over to his kind

of semi-apologetically and said

we don't mean to rush you home but

the wait staff wants to go home for

the evening

so

that's what

that's how that's how I met father

Malachi so like like a good Irishman he

was able to stay in the tavern until

the wee hours of the morning if need be

oh yes without a doubt

and and when you guys met

were you a practicing Catholic

yes I was I was a I guess what you

would call today a conservative Nova

supportive Catholic who had just discovered

the the traditional Roman mask

it was

right after 1988

when

it was the second motor proprio

from John Paul II came out

regarding it and it was one of very few

locations in New York City where it was

offered as a high mass on Sundays

and that was Fulton Sheen's old church in fact

East

43rd Street in New York City next to

Grand Central Station is known as Fulton

Sheen Plaza

Joe Joe's from New York Joe are you

familiar with that location oh sure

I'm familiar with the names I'm familiar

with the places I'm familiar father

Perricone is still at large out there

saying saying the traditional Mass

on Sunday and then I think in Queens

yeah Queens New York now yeah so he's

do you know father Perricon? I don't know him

personally he is a friend of mine

spiritual director though so he's

sort of entering very good hands yes

yeah so his father Perricone's been

in my sort of my periph in my peripheral

vision but not I've not crossed paths

with some yet I'm a long Islander but

and in and out of the city very often

Malachi Martin I I wrote an article and

I'm not doing but what you know trying

to plug my own stuff here but I wrote

an article for one Peter five on hold

on how dare you plug your stuff everyone

please click the link in the description

to to like the video subscribe to the channel

donate to the Kennedy report

if you'd like and buy my books but Joe

go on sorry yeah so I wrote an article

for one Peter 5 on on New York

Catholicism right and I'd like I'm going

to I would like to write a follow-up on

it because I what it was it mostly was

about Dietrich Von Hildebrand but

Malachi Martin is to me while not being

a native to New York is actually is just

in many ways the embodiment

of New York Catholicism by being this

enigmatic Irish

intellectual that and New York City

is some something of a refugee

for intellectuals which is what

Von Hildebrand was and I think we saw

the same in with Martin

who at one point was even driving a city

taxi cab so the narrative

of his life is just so apropos living

here my whole life so

so Rob you are going to tell us this

idea that Malachi Martin was a cardinal

but before you become a cardinal

normally speaking you have to become

a bishop so why don't you tell us that

story about how Malachi actually became

a bishop

sure it was in late 1950s

in the waning days of the pontificate...

is he venerable Pius the 12th yep yes

he's venerable

I will keep going in and how

I'm just putting you on when you're

telling your stories it's solo layout so

they can just listen to your story better

okay very good thank you

it was in the waning days of the pontificate

of Pius XII and what had happened was

of course it was just after

the reign of stalinism in Eastern Europe

and the the iron boot of the Marxist

leninist party state was still heavily

upon the countries of Eastern Europe

well what happened was in Czechoslovakia

in the underground Church of the time

in the underground Catholic Church one

of the priests had had kind of gone off

the rails and

he had fathered several children

with an unmarried woman

and I know a lot of people

these days would at least roll their

eyes and say well at least he was with a woman

but back at the time

it was quite scandalous as it should be

and when the underground Bishop went

to this priest the priest said if you say

anything about it wrong

I will denounce you to the Czech StB

which was the Czechoslovakian secret

police controlled by the Soviet KGB

well

the bishop sent word via the underground

messaging system to the Vatican

that he had a very serious problem

on his hands

because not only was he at risk but

the other underground priests in the church

were arrested as well

not just in Prague but cities like Bratislava Etc

Malachi at this point was a Jesuit priest

on being a young one

he had kind of burned his stripes

in terms of being

he earned his stripes in terms of his

trustworthiness

with being an aide Cardinal Bea

very high ranking Jesuit priest

can you give us a little before

we continue a lot of these people are

cut it sort of it's sort of inside

baseball and the Vatican was Cardinal Bea

a good guy a bad guy how would we

describe him in your opinion

If we would described him today

he would by described as a good guy

and and I'll tell you why

because

although he was somewhat liberal

he was liberal in the classic sense

of liberal the same way as if someone

were to say

25 years ago I'm going to college to get

a liberal arts education

it does not mean today's liberal

you know off the deep end wacky

political viewpoint

as well as social perspectives he was

a classic liberal

so you know in in that respect he was

he was a good guy

he wasn't what you would think of like

currently as like

like

a cardinal Cupich

of Chicago or someone of that old well you

know to add to that you know

someone like John Paul II would be

a liberal in this in a lot of ways but

at the same time was still very socially

conservative was still very Orthodox

in certain ways not that liberalism is good

but you know

you hear about Paul VI being a liberal

and yeah it definitely was in some ways

but you look at some of the things

Paul VI said and the Credo of the

people of God and stuff and it's like it

he looks like Leo XIII compared

to Pope Francis some of the time

you know so it's a good distinction to make

yes so he was an aid to Cardinal Bea

and obviously the word had gotten

to Cardinal Bea regarding what was going on

in Czechoslovakia

and I guess the powers that be in the

Vatican ruminated over what the solution

to this was and they decided they had to send

a bishop because a priest can't laicize

another priest it has to be

a bishop who laicizes the priest

they decided the man for the job or

the priest for the job was

father Malachi Martin

and

when they describe the problem to him

in the Vatican Malachi said but I'm not

a bishop and

whoever the Cardinal secretary of state

was at the time said we can take care

of that in that little chapel over there

in about 20 minutes

and

he was made a bishop

of the Catholic Church albeit

in pectorate meaning in secret held close

to the chest

and

he went to Czechoslovakia he first

he met with the underground Bishop

and the bishop fully filled him in

on what was going on then

the next day and he traveled there by train

the next day he met with this priest

this priest said I don't know who you are

and he said I'm a bishop from

the Vatican that's all you need to know

and

you know you now have a chance

to renounce this life of sin

that you have adopted

and you know you know recant what you

have done and see Christ's forgiveness

and

the priest said no

and Malachi said: Are you sure

because there will be consequences

for you as a priest

and the priest said

I'm very sure I'm not changing

and Malachi said then you know

as a successor of the Apostles

I am declaring that you will be

laicized and you're all of your

Priestly faculties will be withdrawn

officially

we will no longer be a priest able

to celebrate the sacrifice

the holy sacrifice of the mass or your confessions

and no sooner was Malachi out this priest's door

then the priest was on the phone

to Czech secret police

and he said there's going to be a man

showing up at the train station he's

going to look like this he's going to be

dressed like this I suggest you arrest

him because he's a spy from the Vatican

and Malachi was arrested

by the Czech secret police

and he was subsequently held

for an indetermined period of time where

he was questioned and it was only when

the Vatican threatened to make

a very large international stink

out of one of their priests being held

by the Czech secret police that Malachi

was released and put on a railroad train

to Austria

so so that was in about 55 56 somewhere

around there no that would have been

a little bit later probably around 1957

okay because that because yeah Paul or

Pius XII was done in 58 so just before

he ended his Reign correct it was just

it was just prior to his going to his

terminal reward

okay and then after that Malachi

he decides to what would the term be

he wants to be secularized he's not laicized

he's not penalized but he just

sort of wants to go live a scholarly

life or something

right well what he what he did was

he approached Pope Paul VI because

he was at the time a Vatican functionary

and he requested what is called

in the Vatican name rescript

because he asked to be released

from two of his three vows his vow

of obedience so he could be released

from the Jesuit order

and from his vow of poverty so

he could earn a living

in the west because he would have to do

something to earn money to earn his keep

he did not request to be released

from his valve celibacy in fact

there's a -

I call it the big lie as it concerns

father Malachi and that is that he was

laicized and you know

reduced to the lay stake from being

a member of the clergy that's not true

and the late William Kennedy actually contacted

the United States Jesuit conference

in Washington DC

in 2003 - 2004 and

he spoke with the spokesman and

got a letter from him

Father Tom Whitmer

who went to father I believe Vincent O'Keefe

at the time in the midnight 60s was the head

of the Jesuit provincials in North America

and he confirmed father O'Keefe confirmed

that Malachi Martin was a priest in good

standing his entire life up until his death

that he that he had not been reduced

to the state of a layman

now okay

given the amount of garbage that

the Jesuits threw at Malachi Martin

for his 1976 book "The Jesuits"

why father O'Keefe decided to kind

of come clean at that moment because

he didn't pass away for a number of years

after that is anyone's guess but

the letter and correspondence are out

there in the public domain if you look

for them on Google

okay so he's made a bishop and then

decides in the reign of Paul VI to sort

of live a different way

he had his reasons I mean

he probably saw the direction

of the Jesuits maybe he wanted to do

a different thing

eventually

he finds himself in a position where

he's going to be a cardinal

now this is something that I only ever

heard from you I've never heard it

from anybody else

could you please tell us this story and

how Malachi Martin became a cardinal and

the geopolitical scenario that was

at play at that time

I'd be happy too

first of the person who told me that

Malachi Martin was a cardinal was Malachi himself

I don't know if you are aware who

the late Dr Rama Kumaraswamy was

I've never heard of him no

okay he was very prominent in the city

of a contest circles

all right he wrote an Infamous but very

accurate book that used to be available

through 10 books called the problems

with the new Mass

anyway

Dr Kumarswami wanted to be ordained a priest

but he was

he was married

all right however

when he wanted to be ordained a priest

he and his wife were already

in their early 70s

so there was not a question of him

remaining you know physically continent

from his wife she obviously was

in completing her name was Bernadette

they've both gone to their reward

there's not a problem

and there were two Bishops there

who were I were told

independent catholic Bishops

I do not remember their names

I was seeing them over being an accident

while making the movie "Hostage to the devil"

and I sustained a traumatic brain injury

as well as other injuries

so I apologize that I cannot

remember the bishop's name

but now I drove Malachi up there

on secular days and

they had just moved to Kumarswamy family

and just do a very large house

in rural Wilton Connecticut

there were packing boxes everywhere

basically we were offered bottled water

as a refreshment

and

Malachi in a rare show of being peeved

because I never saw him got get angry

very much

he said these words to me in my Jeep

on the way back

on the second day

after the ordination to the priesthood

first day was the ordination

to the diaconate the second day was

the ordination of the priesthood

apparently it's in the code of canon law

that those ordinations cannot take place

on the same day

anyway so let me just let me pause you

there because I want to clarify and then

I Joe maybe you can jump in because

there's been some ideas that Malachi was

involved in the state of a contest

situation so was this

was your ordaining state of Kansas

priest or was it more of just sort

of an independent priest thing and then

the kind of their own ideas how did that work

That's easily explained

I have no proof that Malachi Martin

was a state of a contest

he told me that he was greatly troubled

by some of the actions and ideas that

Pope John Paul II had expressed

he said but I'm not in a position

to declare him

deposed from the sea of Peter he said

because that can only be done if it is

merited at some point in the future

by the church

he says I am not the confident authority

the reason why he was there with those

two Bishops

was because

he was also and I saw him do this

there's part of the ordination ceremony

where they do a position of hands

on the ordinand

he did that

and on the way back

like I said it was the only time

I ever saw him a little bit peeved he said

he was on a first name basis with Dr Kumarswami

his name was Rama

and he said

Rama pestered me and pestered me

to ensure that a cardinal from the Vatican

would be there at his ordination and

he didn't even offer me a cup of coffee

so so Joe is our as our resident

New Yorker here if there's ever a cause

for Malachi's canonization he's Irish and

a New Yorker which you know a little bit

about I don't think they're allowed

to not have tempers what do you think Joe

yeah I mean yeah I'm 60% Irish and I live

right here in you know Long Island New

York but you know come from you know

basically a Catholic Catholic stock

so I you know the temper yeah it dies

hard really you know I'm 31 years old

and it still hasn't gone away in fact it

only seems to get worse the worse traffic gets

but and it's not I'll tell you

it's not getting any better I don't know

if Rob is a New Yorker but yeah yeah but

born in Brooklyn Bay Ridge are you

still in New York

no I live in - I live in central

New Jersey now oh oh both frying pan

of the fiery but

fair enough yeah I you know the...

I've taken somewhat

of an interest lately and what the history

of the set of a sede vacante movement and

I've had some conversations

with people regarding this and well

one of whom is at the the WM review runs

a good block but

yeah it's my understanding actually that

you might you may or may not be able

to verify whether or not this is true

that the Bishops at the ordination there

sort of didn't do

the formula correctly and

I have heard actually that Malachi Martin said

as a bishop I could fix

where they messed up would you be

able to confirm that

yes I can there's an old phrase

I don't know where it comes from

that says once more into the breach but

that's exactly what Malachi did

because apparently there's a prayer that

when that prayer is said the ordaining

bishop must have his hands on the over

the ordinand

and

that's when

Malachi said that prayer and imposed

his hands over Dr Kumarswami on his head

Okay so how does Malachi (Malachi

we should say the Irish way) how does

Malachi end up being a cardinal

of the Catholic Church how does

it get to the point where I believe was

1984 around there let's explain that

situation how that comes to pass sure

in everyone remembers because it's kind

of Infamous now but everyone remembers

back in March 1984 Pope John Paul II had

the original Pilgrim virgin statue

of Our Lady of Fatima brought from the shrine

to Saint Peter's Square

for a consecration of the human race

in March 1984 to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

and if you because the consecration

prayer is online

and look it up

as part of that consecration prayer

he said we especially consecrate to you

those peoples and that Nation

who are awaiting our consecration

which clearly means that I'm not really

consecrating them right now God but you

know who I'm talking about

he was going to say Russia

and he was prevailed upon

due to the delicacy apparently

of the international situation it was

the literally part of the military height of Cold War

use prevailed upon by his circle

of advisors don't say Russia holiness

but it was

in the Litany of prayers where he said

from the scourge

and I'm paraphrasing

from the scourge

of War preserve us

from the scourge of nuclear war

preserve us

and

what had happened was Vatican

intelligence which

is the Envy of any intelligence

organization in the world

Vatican intelligence had received word

that at the time

the General Secretary of the Communist Party

of the Soviet Union was a man

named Yuri Andropov

he was the former head of KGB

the initial standing for in Russian

the committee for State security

Vatican intelligence was informed that in 1985

before what Russian military theorists

and Marxist military theorists referred

to as the correlation of forces

that the Russians intended to launch

what's known as a short warning

military attack against NATO

because it was at the time

that

President Reagan had

approximately three and a half to four years

to make good

on his promise to revitalize him militarily

the North Atlantic Alliance that meant

a couple of thousand of the new M1

Abrams Tanks to replace the m60a3 patent

tank aircraft like the F-16 Fighting Falcon

the F-15 Eagle to replace the F4 Phantom

Soviets knew that at the time

that had Reagan's plan come to fruition

that the NATO qualitative Edge would more

than offset their numerical Edge

sheer military terms

I don't know if any of you are young

enough to remember but at the time I was

in college in Washington

at the Catholic University

and the Russians had deployed in Eastern

Europe and the Western military

districts of the old Soviet Union

the SS-20 intermediate range nuclear missile

and

the Soviets ginned up a huge propaganda

effort to get the West

specifically the United States

not to install as a countervailing

measure on NATO's part the Pershing two

nuclear missile

there were huge protests across

Western Europe at the time

led by Soviet farmers

leading crowds

of what we used to call the agency

the useful Indians

this is a long-winded way of saying that

the Soviets had planned

to punch a hole in NATO's defenses

in Western Europe

and they were going to use tactical

nuclear weapons on the ss-20 missiles to do so

and they had units

in addition to things like the guards

tank armies

guards units being an honorific

leftover from World War II

to punch through these irradiated fire

breaks that they're created in Western

NATO's defenses at both the folded Gap

and

the northern reaches

of the inner German border

the plan I don't remember the Russian

name but in English it translates

to seven days to the Rhine

in the Rhine River

they were going to stop at the French border

because they were not about to invade

a country that had its own independent

nuclear force not on very good under

the control of the Pentagon

this word got

to the Vatican, Pope John Paul II took it

very very seriously

which is why he had the pilgrim virgin

statue brought to wrong and there are

photos of him kneeling in Saint Peter's

Square before immediate Fatima statue

with the crowds behind barriers in the background

he said the prayer

in March of 1984

and on May 13th of 1984.

in the Soviet city of Severomorsk

which is

way up around

the top of the North Sea

around

the Kola peninsula

I don't have a map in front of me

near Murmansk

which was the base the headquarters

of the Soviet northern red banner Fleet

charged with interdicting NATO

reinforcement convoys across Europe

it was one of the infamously

closed cities

of the old Soviet Union

there were massive explosions

at served ammunition storage depots

Soviet Northern Fleet on May 13 1984.

explosions were so strong

that there are pictures

not many but there are pictures online

you can find it actually looks like

a nuclear bomb with mushroom clouds

with the explosions were of such an intensity

that

they were registered on seismic

equipment in Sweden and England

at the time and

they basically knocked out

the warfighting capability of the Soviet

northern red banner Fleet

for approximately two years because they

destroyed all of the cruise missiles

anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles

that the fleet had

with the exception

of what was already on board the ships

the ships would not be able to replenish

once firing off their initial combat

what's called load after

the same day

at a city called Schwerin

s-c-h-w-e-r-i-n East Germany

there was a huge explosion

Ammunition Depot

for one of the red Army's Premier tank

Soviet forces Germany the GSFG

apparently it blew out

explosion was of such force that blew

out windows in like a five kilometer radius

and not to be outdone either that day or

one or two days later

at a Soviet strategic bomber base

inside the Soviet Union

an air regiment because they called

at the time the red Air Force referred

to their bomber units as not wings but regiments

at either a backfire or Badger regimen

there were also explosions that

destroyed their stockpiles of what were

called I believe the AS16

kelt NATO code name (k-e-l-t)

and if I'm wrong I'm sure there is someone

who corrects me but taken together

what it did was it took the option

of a viable start

to a Soviet Warsaw act defensive again

the West off the table for approximately

two years

well the Vatican didn't know that this

was going to happen

all right but Pope John Paul II had

the intelligence

that

the Soviets were planning something

but you know that in in the world

of politics International politics you

don't have only military preparations

but you also have diplomatic preparations

and

apparently this Council of 12 Cardinals

no longer exists now because

the Soviet Marxist Leninist party state

Empire is now gone

but there was apparently formed

the Council of 12 administrative Cardinals

in various parts of the world that

if war broke out in Europe

and the Soviets hit Rome because

Italy was a member of the NATO alliance

if they hit Rome with a thermonuclear warhead

and if the pope died as a result

then the administrators the Cardinal

administrators in various parts

of the world would function as the de facto

leadership of the church

until

a conclave could be called

and new supreme pontiff elected

Malachi was the de facto Cardinal

for the United States and Canada

but that was only something that would be exercised

in Latin I believe

the phrases "in extremis"

you're not going to find

you're not going to find it on Google

you know I doubt that anyone would be able

to produce documents to that effect

because

Malachi Malachi was

let me put it this way

he was three things to me first and

foremost he was my spiritual director

and confessor

he was also my best friend

he was also my Confessor

and he trust me

so

so basically

Malachi Malachi and others were made

Cardinals do you know who any

of the other ones were or is that sort of

you know I don't know that that was helped

to be that was

that was in strict confidence

and I would never know who those other

individuals were well you know it's funny

and then I want to get your opinion

here Joe in a sec but

I'm a friend with Father Charles Murr and

he was close with Cardinal Gagnon and

Mario Marini and these various big players

in the Vatican and and he was

in his late 20s had just been ordained

where he kind of got in with this crowd

these guys were all

you know grown men 30s 40s 50s 60s had been

in the priests in the Vatican for a while

and he had all these stories that

he knew he could tell when they died

because people need to hear them but

he waited till they died you know so he was

in confidence for sure but there came

a point when you know he could tell you

where the bodies were buried

Joe have you ever heard this story

that Malachi Martin was a cardinal

and your musings and stuff

on the internet about Malachi

like research Malachi Martin a bit

I like Malachi Martin a whole lot I mean

I've listened to his the Jazz and

interviews for instance mostly and

I haven't come across this just yet

you know I've heard a lot about Fatima and

you know his you know takes

on the crisis in the church and his thoughts

on the black mass that occurred

but nothing like nothing like him being a cardinal

I guess I'm still a little unclear

on it in a way

so was he did

he hold the office of cardinal or

would he was he only going to be

a cardinal should X Y and Z happen

he was a cardinal

all right

but he did not administratively

exercise the office in the traditional

way that we think of it

however when I found that out

and I didn't press him on this

but it cleared up a number of things

for me for example

we all know that at the time Cardinal

Bernardin in Chicago was

no a notorious

heretic among other things

and it had always puzzled me why someone

like Cardinal Bernardin didn't squash Malachi

Martin like a bug

because given his contacts within the church

he certainly could have done so

but then when I found out what the truth

was then all of a sudden the little

light bulb went on over my head

I just want to mess off ah okay well

now I know and by the way

back in 1995 I went

to Italy on vacation and

a month before I went to Italy I met

Malachi for lunch and a little greasy

food Deli in Lexington Avenue

in Manhattan we'd like to go to between

61st and 62nd Street

I think it's called The Stage Deli but

I told him I said you know I'm going

to Italy A friend of mine has done a pen

and ink rendition of image

of Our Lady of Fatima that you can

just barely see over my shoulder

I would love to present that to the Holy Father

he said meet me here meet me back here

for lunch tomorrow I'll see what I can do

and

he placed a call to the Vatican

several weeks later

I was handing

that pending rendition of our Lady

it was about 20 by 24. to Pope John Paul II

immediately prior to his Wednesday audience

in the nervy hall but it was not

in the nervy Hall per se it was like

in a private anti-chamber where there were

maybe 15 - 20 people there

I was there with a friend of mine who

traveled with me from the United States

so you know the phrase when they say

does someone have juice

okay

does did he have access

okay he made one call and three weeks later

I was looking into Pope John Paul II's face

it you know there's something

I'll never forget it

I ended him it was very quick because

he he looked at the picture and then he smiled

and the monsignori who was accompanying him

took the picture from me and handed me

papal rosaries white people rosaries

the pope obviously had a huge smile on his face

but it proved to me that father Malachi

you know

you know had the access within the Vatican

to get someone in to see the Holy Father

there's no other way how it could happen

believe so that's amazing now we've got

so many questions in the chat because

there's a million things we could say

about Malachi you know

so one of the ones that people

keep asking me goodness gracious

is there's a question here

about Malachi must have known that Bernadin

was involved in the ritual in South Carolina

that took place this is to do

with the satanic and the enthronement

and so forth

we Joe and I touched on that a little bit

in our show we did it but we don't know enough

to to go into detail could you give us

some background on on that event

in the United States

yes the event in the United States

took place in South Carolina at Church

they knew that for what they were

planning they could not hold it

in the Pauline Chapel

within the bounds of Vatican City state

so

they had an open telephone line and

he was a priest at the time

and his character's name

in Windswept house is

the Cardinal of Century City

cardinal Leonardine I mean he didn't go

to great lengths to hide

the link between him and Bernadin

but

the nastier parts

of the ritual were held in South Carolina

okay

and Joe did you have I know you had

a pen and paper there did you have

any questions that you wanted to ask I did

yeah one of them was it's funny

well not funny really you said

well Martin's stature

and Bernadin's position as

a cardinal in the Catholic church is

in a way what prevented him from what you

said like being squashed like

a bug by Cardinal Bernadin and

the Cardinal Archbishop of Chicago is

basically you know almost a de facto

like Cardinal of the country

really because that's one of the...

you know it's one of the most important

archdiocese in the in the whole

in the whole country

well what I was going to ask is

that the circumstances surrounding

Martin's death seem a bit odd when

you look into them

and in a way I was wondering if perhaps

Bernadin didn't

I can clear that up

a couple of days before Malachi Martin died

or died but fell in his apartment

there was nothing nefarious about it

Malachi and I

our birthdays were separated in July

by only a few days and instead

of exchanging gifts

what we would do is we would just go out

for a nice Italian meal

I look for Capri Restaurant

and

he had called me that morning and

in a very strange voice said

Rob apparently Old Scratch was not

pleased with what we were up to in Connecticut

last week he was called to consult on an exorcism

because Dr Kumarswami was a psychiatrist

he was called to consult

on an exorcism

potential exorcism case

he was standing on a small I guess stool

in his tiny little I mean a little

rabbit warren of an apartment within

Lovanos's apartment complex

and he says if he told me

he was kicked out from under him

and he struck his head on his desk

but he struck his head on his desk

he was apologetic look at that and

he said I'm sorry I'm not going to be on the dinner tonight

and he said I've got to go now

and then the phone line clicked off and

it wasn't like he was being rushed off the phone

and it's very matter-of-factly said

in a weak voice he says I've got to go now

and those are the last words I were

I spoke with him

but he

the event that led to his death and

what's one of the first things he does

calls me up to apologize he can't make dinner

and that was

98 - 99 around there

19 July 1999

wow

Okay so

do you have any questions -

nefarious from a human agency perspective

but then a lot of people

say he was pushed down a flight

of stairs he was brought down

he was murdered I can put those things

to rest to the point that I'm probably one

of the last people around

to know the straight facts

it was as a result of a consultation

on the pending exorcism

you have a question mark well I was just

going to say

do we know who it was who maybe started

those rumors as to you know a nefarious

end to his death do you have any idea or

was that just a natural cause I think

that was in the early days of the internet and

you know if you think the internet

for as politically correct and woke as it is today

still isn't the Wild West

go back 25 years

and it was insane so I mean

he was accused of being an agent of the Mossad

yeah I've heard that I've heard that one

before that's that's but just I mean

he spoke Hebrew right I think he was

well versed he spoke several languages

he was one of the people who originally

worked on the Dead Sea schools

yeah you know this is the thing

about Malachi Martin that I find so fascinating

you know

if you didn't have people

to corroborate the stories that know him

and you didn't have these interviews

with Bernard Jensen and so forth

he'd be too he'd be he'd be too it'd be

like he's made in a lab you know

he's amazing at languages he's

actually I mean just from a strictly

academic level he was an incredible mind

he's got this being imprisoned

in the Soviet Union as a secret bishop and

a secret Cardinal and all these things and

it's actually astonishing but

you know when you actually put

the pieces together it turns out that it's all

I mean there's too many people who are

too trustworthy

and his intellect was too sharp and

his stories were too consistent

for these silly rumors to keep being taken

seriously by people in my opinion that's

just how I see it

well one thing well a couple of things

that I want to show you good folks

I hope you can

see it well enough and that there's no glare

do you see that picture

yes we see that yeah

okay that's a very young me

with Father Martin in the Lebanos apartment

and those are Mrs Lebanos's works of art

she did a very unique kind of religious iconography

at the school the Isabella Middle School

the painted finish

and that was one of those fortunate times when

and he didn't stand on the ceremony when

he went out to grab a bite to eat or

sometimes I would just bring

submarine sandwiches up there and we'd

have lunch in there

in their little kitchen

that's just he was he was very informal

that way he would sometimes hear

my confession when we were just walking

around the streets of the city

on the upper east side and

a lot of people knew a lot of people knew him

very casually

as Dr Martin

I mean Cappy's would slow down in the street

and I'd hear them yell out yo Dr Martin

turned around he'd say

Freddy how are you how's Bernadette and

the kids

if he was

he was very very well known because

he had been in that part of New York

on that point for over 20 years

Joe you got something to ask I think

yeah well I mean I'm having very much

a Nostalgia trip just thinking

of the upper east side of Manhattan but

I mean I could go back there whenever

I want but you know it's it's changed a bit

this is actually kind of I don't know

kind of a a dumb question in some ways

but

has he ever said anything about the correlation

between him at there seems to be

a link between him and

the character of Father Marin

from The Exorcist movie I don't know if that

if that's completely by accident but has

has he ever mentioned anything like that

because his father never mentioned

anything about the movie The Exorcist

to me with the exception of the fact that

to his knowledge you know

the exorcisms he'd ever consulted on or performed

no one's had to ever spun 360 degrees

he never said anything about being

identifiable or co-identified

with Max Boncino's character father Marin

but he said that a lot of the effect

of that movie was as a pure horror movie

in what he called the vein

of Frankenstein and Dracula

he would have classified an exorcism

as a very dirty exorcism

he said there were some that were very dirty

and not dirty as in pornographic but

dirty as in just messy exactly

and then there were some that

he referred to as hammer and tongues

in which it was just a constant back and

forth spiritual battle

where any paranormal manifestations

on the physical plane were held

to a minimum but it made them no less

intense on the exorcism

now there's a question I have

Malachi Martin was

a fan of friendly with the Society

of Saint Pius X attempt could you tell us

about that

yes he was back in the early 1990s

after I met father Malachi

I was assigned

by the agency to an assignment out

at Kirtland Air Force Base

in Albuquerque New Mexico

and I could spell Albert

I defy any of you to spell

Albuquerque

but I asked him I said where will I be able

to attend the traditional mass

and he said to his knowledge

because of whoever the Archbishop was

out there at the time was a rather

notorious modernist

he said the only place you're going

to be able to get in Albuquerque will be

in a chapel of what is called

the Society of Saint Pius X

he said

if you tell anyone you go

you've gone to their masses they will say

that they're in schism

they're not incism

their mass is perfectly valid you're

going to receive the body blood soul and

Divinity of our blessed Lord

and you will receive it validly

and you are not committing a schismatic act

said you know and I said and that peaked

my interest because at that point

I'd never heard of the SSPX

he said well if you want to educate yourself

he said go to Angela's press

look up the writings of a gentleman

named Michael Davies

that's why I educated myself

I bought his Trilogy the mammoth

magnum opus of his on

you know the price of revolution

in the Catholic church and as well as

his apologia Pro Marcel of that

and he told me he said one day when

sanity has returned to the church that

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre will be

the canonized saint

here here I believe that

I believe that too

so okay someone in the chat here

they're asking about Kiesa Viva

I've heard them before they said they did

a great job on him did Father Martin

know father Villa who did Kiesa Viva

he made he may have known him

I don't know I only know of the priest that

father Martin spoke to me of

he was very good friend with

the late Father Charles Fiore

he was friend with Father Alfred

Kunz the priest who was

murdered I believe out in Wisconsin

he was friend with father

Brian Harrison

in fact the two of them on the day or

the day after the luciferian

enthronement was supposed to be attempted

the Dual chapels in Rome and South Carolina

Malachi in his little apartment in New York

and father Harrison had a chapel

in the Vatican said masses of reparation

for that Blasphemous Act

yeah Joe and I talked about that

there was an article in the remnant that

was quite instructive on that okay

question here

person says I have heard father Martin

saying that Satan and Lucifer are two

different entities

always wondered why do you have any

insight into that

I don't know why but I do remember Malachi telling me that

Lucifer was the Fallen Archangel who was kind

of like head of the whole show

and Satan was

one of his chief underlings and chief

accuser of souls before God

but any anything further than that

I can't elaborate on

and I'm not gonna pretend it okay

that's good yeah I've heard similar

things to listening to Talks by father

Ripperger and other exorcists that

they're separate

entities technically but we say demonic

satanic luciferian kind

of interchangeably just sort of gets

in common I want to interact with either

of them yeah exactly

Mem Lagu in the chat asks

he said he had interaction

with Malachi who tried to stop him

from point Eastern Orthodoxy because

he said there were more Masonic Bishops and

Orthodoxy than in the Catholic church is

that anything you've ever spoken about

with him

no Malachi told me

that Masonry, the hight levels

of Freemasonry as opposed to like

the Shriners who drive the funny little cars

around Philadelphia

raising money for their hospitals but

he said the higher levels of Freemasonry

starting back around or before the time

of their Infamous document called

the permanent structure instruction

of the ultimate data

he said that they had begun their efforts

a systemic and Global penetration

of the Roman Catholic Church

and he said that continues down

to the present day

in fact

one of the more Infamous people involved

in Freemasonry was the late Archbishop

Annibale Bugnini yes and Malachi he said

that they brought

irrefutable evidence

of Archbishop Bugnini's masonic

membership to Pope Paul VI and

the next day he was on a one-way ticket

Alitalia flight to Tehran Iran

as the apostolic nuncio to all six

Catholics in the capital of Iran

all six of them yeah yeah

so but he he was quite clear about that

I yeah I had a question about what

Martin's perspective on Pope John XXIII

might have been so obviously you have

the ordeal with him and the Third Secret

and John the 23rd you know revealing

well you know according to Martin

which seems accurate that

the Third Secret is not for our time right

which is which is what John 23rd said in 1960.

John XXIII otherwise seems like

you know the U.S. certain set

of a contest that maybe he's a Freemason

or something like that but John XXIII

by all appearances is orthodox

had Martin spoken on John XXIII

as a man or potentially as a Freemason

or anything of this sort to you

he never told me he was a Freemason

he never made any inference to that

to that fact

what he told me though was that

Pope John XXIII

was very naive

and very easily manipulated by the more

cunning Cardinals and archbishops

surrounding him

and

he did kick off the second Vatican ecumenical council

with very very

what we would call Orthodox Roman Catholic intent

he said however he realized just

before his death

that the council had been hijacked

by the northern European contingent

which were bent on imposing a much more Progressive

liberal and Insidious Vision upon the church

then

John XXIII had ever in his wildest dreams thought

the council would do

and what he told me was his statement

was John XXIII died in his regrets

yeah I've actually if you read father Mers

I don't know which number one of his

for one of his books before his recent

Freemasonry book

he talks about his interaction

with Madre Pascalino who was Pius XII

personal secretary

and she was there right after he passed away

and John XXIII came in and

for all intents and purposes

he was Orthodox but he just wasn't

a strong enough figure for the time essentially

as a man it was it wasn't about his beliefs

or his Orthodoxy it was just

his personality basically correct yeah

one person's a chat asking what did

Malachi Martin

think about Medjugorje

oh

you can say I'm not saying you can say

it I'm not saying it

no

Malachi told me that he thought that

perhaps

the first two or three of the alleged apparitions

may have been legitimate

but then after that

that the sears had succumbed

to what I'm laughingly refer to

as an old Sinatra song called The Good Life

all right and

and they

they like the notoriety they like the intention

and there was a priest who

I don't remember his name it's

one of those weird Slavic names

that just escapes me at the moment Drago or something

but that he was directly disobedient

to the bishop there with regard

to the alleged apparitions

that's when Malachi said that

if it was a true apparition

the sears would be obedient

to the bishop instead of defiant

and

he said that in his mind

with the exception of perhaps the first couple

of alleged apparitions

the whole thing in his word his direct words

was a satanic fraud

wow

what do you what do you think Joe

you're still you're muted yourself Joe I think

it's not coming

maybe just unplug your headphones

can't hear you

throw some holy water on your screen

I told you I told you you're leaving come back

yeah no it's interesting

oh this is what I want to get from you

this is what I want we talked about this

on the phone Rob I need this is the...

this is a break the internet kind of thing

an Art Bell caller asked about the Antichrist

having already been born

and Malachi cut him off and said no

I said alive not born alive yes but born

is something else

so you've told me before about Malachi

said that the Antichrist might actually

have been born and he's and that's

a whole other thing so what why don't you

just give us the lowdown on that

okay if this topic came up when we were

on the Lexington Avenue subway line

going down to a religious good store

and I was asking him about it and

he said that

I recall himself

that

the Antichrist

came into existence

in approximately the year 1962.

born in the Middle East

that he would reveal himself

most likely towards the middle

to end of the 21st Century

I was kind of incredulous about that and

I said how's that possible now because

if that's the case you know

he's going to be in whatever they're using

for a wheelchair in the year 2060

and he said no no he says you're

overlooking something

because his father is Lucifer

he will appear ageless

he will hit approximately

the physical appearance of the age

of about 35 and then his aging progression

will stop

you know

just to go down a rabbit hole here about

how that's possible just for the sake

of conversation and then Joe you can ask

your question that you got muted from

there's a lot of the great Saints and

theologians say that the Antichrist will

actually resemble Christ look like him

like an actual almost doppelgänger kind

of way and

Christ died at the age of 33

of course and

the book Lord of the World by Hugh Benson

he in that book there's

this theme back and forth where

the last remaining spoiler alert but

he's one of the last running priests

on Earth after a freemasonic takeover and

you know genocide and all this kind of stuff

the Antichrist comes along and

there's this reference where they keep

saying well they look so much alike

they look so much alike basically the last

the last Pope who's sort of the Savior

who's the last remaining you know Holy Catholic

looks like the Antichrist that's sort

of play on that theme

he wasn't writing a strictly theological

work it was more of just teasing out

some ideas from early kind of 1900s but

also

one thing that's strong

in the church fathers

about the Nephilim is that there is

some way I don't understand it I don't know

but there is some way that

essentially

the fallen angels are able

to procreate somehow with the human race

and I wonder I just wonder I don't know

but I wonder if that's where

a possibility like that would happen

that's just totally out in left field

but that that reminds me

of the things that the church fathers have said

about the ability for fallen angels

to procreate and create the Nephilim so

I guess something like this could be found

in Tradition

you know okay Joe you had a question

how am I now am I audible you're good

yeah you sound good all right yeah I got

a call during the during during that

so I think that that's what happened

anyway

yeah actually I've been on to Malachi

Martin's thoughts on things

I was specifically I mean I know when

he wrote the Keys of this Blood he was

in a kind of writing from a more pro

John Paul II standpoint

I was wondering more what

his opinion of John Paul II was when

he passed away and you know

in his time in New York if there was any

I don't know if the two would have been

there at the same time but

if they're Gene at all

If that was it would be very discrete

very very discrete

I do know that

John Paul II started out with Malachi

as being a pope of great promise

but ultimately ended up disappointing him

when I asked why

he said

because of his philosophical background

of what he termed a phenomenologist

versus someone who is a thomistic

scholar and a follower

of St Thomas Aquinas

and

me being dumb as a brick on some of this

I said what's the difference between

phenomenology

and Thomism

and in his very pithy way

he explained me it in this way

Malachi said

imagine that you walk

into your house and you just have

a new white rug installed in your living room

and

your your little doggie has made

a doo-doo mess in the middle of the rug

he said a phenomenologist will look at it

ponder it and say

I see what appears to be dog doo-doo

in the middle of the rug

I do sincerely wonder what that means

and he said whereas a Thomist would open

the door see the doo doo on the rug and go honey

the dog went to the bathroom

on the rug again

yeah yeah and

and he said it was because

of his background as a phenomenologist

that led him to always like

want to keep an open mind

regarding things that other people would have seen

as blatantly heretical

such as the prayer gathering in Asisi

that's a really good observation

in the last however many years

in the church like you look at men

like Ratzinger and John Paul II

they've got big brains they're super smart

you know I think Bishop Williamson

said incredible hardware but not the right software

like these men obviously

you know John Paul II knew

a ton of languages I mean he was up there

with the big brains in the church but it was

like paralysis of analysis you know

paralysis by analysis we know

the problems in the church let's have

another Synod let's have another

whatever and we'll try to figure out how

we can understand those in a way that

Etc et cetera et cetera whereas no

if it doesn't drive with your Baltimore

catechism or your Pius X catechism

it's probably just not Catholic

you should probably just move on right

yeah well I'll tell you something

going back to your question

about Medjugorje before

all right

I remember Malachi told me one way

to drive partisans of Medjugorje screening

up a wall

he said look at them and say

you know likelihood

Garabandal was a very valid

apparition, Medjugorje is a spose

he said and then just sit back and watch

the fireworks

it's funny maybe Joe you won't know I've never...

I have never waded into Garabandal or

Medjugorje like I just haven't I've just...

I reverted to the faith roughly eight years ago

and I've just been trying to learn

all the essentials the whole time

you know

I haven't really gone into it but Joe

do you have opinion on Garabandal

I've heard mixed things on it

I don't really know enough about it

I don't have an opinion per se

you know I remember listening to some videos

about it from the Fatima Center

but and not being particularly

convinced one way or the other

more with Garabandal and "owner proved" apparitions

I was always

sort of detach in the sense that

I was like well I don't really need these

because I have Akita and La Salette

and "buen suceso" I was gonna kind

of sequel to another question kind of that

Malachi Martin having having known the Third Secret

did he indicate that

any of the other apparitions were kind

of the telling of the Third Secret by other means?

I'm thinking specifically of Akita

in the following you don't follow

Garabandal very much but he indicated that

Garabandal let part of the Canada on the back but

then more of the cat was let out of the bag

by the apparitions in Akita to Sister

Agnes Sasagawa as well as interestingly

you know, Pope John Paul too himself

in his 1981 visit to Fulda Germany

because... and he did it

in an almost passive aggressive way when

someone asked him why hasn't the Third Secret released

and he said that

his predecessors in the Petron office declined to reveal it

so as not to give the worldwide power of communism

the ability to make certain military

moves against the West

that the West would be almost powerless against

then he went on to say it should suffice

to say this much

if there does exist a message

in which it is said that there will be

great earthquakes

great tidal waves

and then entire nations and millions of people

will be wiped out off the Earth from one moment to the next

if you're only interested in the content

of that message for sensationalism's purposes

is there any real point in wanting

to publish it in the first place?

think about that

because he basically said you know

to my mind what's in part of the message

and you know whenever Malachi would say

you know parts of the Third Secret are

far far worse than that

I don't know... he never told me

what he meant by that

all right

except to allude to the fact that

when John XXIII read the secret

and put it back and declined to publish it

and said this does not pertain to our pontificate

and this is speculation, O.K.

that it was referring to a future Pope

or claimant to the Petron office

who would be under the de facto

if not de jure influence

or control of global Freemasonry

that makes sense

and the only thing

I'm going to say is

anyway

all right

so me and my friend Mark here

he's not my brother people been asking

we're just both really handsome

but

we have - he's got 10 kids I've got

five kids we've got 15 rambunctious

screaming children in the house

and our wives are doing amazing jobs

entertaining them and so forth but

we just wanted to make sure we didn't miss this

we're gonna have to call it a night

here gentlemen

we'll have you on again at some point

Rob because there's so much more and

in fact people in the chat people want

to know things people watching this after

the fact

click in the description to the show

and you will find the contact us

for the website: the Kennedy Report website

you can join the email list and

you can email us questions and

if you email questions about Malachi Martin

what we'll do is we'll actually kind of put some together

and then we'll have Rob back

on the show you know a month or two whatever

and we will we'll if

he's available and we'll do something else

and talk about it is there anything else

you want to say before we signed off

here Rob?

yes real quickly

this corporal cloth that I'm holding in my hand

is a corporal cloth that father Martin

said Mass on each day

okay one of several he had I consider it

to be one of my most precious possessions

that plus

he gave me one year

as a Christmas gift

an inlaid solid silver

icon crucifix on one side - you can see -

is our Lord

surrounded by various Saints

on the other side

on the other side

it's our lady holding the Christ child

and she's also surrounded by depictions

of the evangelists in their biblical symbiology

as a man or lion or eagle or whatever

those are some of my most precious possessions

wonderful

all right well gentlemen thank you very much

any last words Joe not like you're gonna die

or something but last words for the show

no I appreciate I appreciate

you coming on Rob this was fascinating

to me as an admirer of Malachi Martin

yeah all right ladies and gentlemen

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we have the same Barber, yeah

all right ladies and gentlemen

this has been the Kennedy report, until next time

God bless