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What about this Internet thing?

Do you-- Do you know
anything about that?

Sure.

Wha-- what
the hell is that exactly?

Well, it's-- it's become a place

where people are
publishing information,

-Right.
-so everybody can have their own

home page, companies are there.

The latest information,
it's wild what's going on.

You can send electronic
mail to people.

Uh, it is the big new thing.

Yeah, but, you know, uh,
it's easy to criticize

something you don't
fully understand,

which is my position here.

Let's make that set,
guys, pictures up.

We like that position.

Okay, guys,
check your cellphones.

Make sure everybody's
set on vibrate, please.

No open walkies on set.

Okay. Let's do last looks,
please. Thank you.

Okay, let's get
everybody in place

let's get ready
to lock up the doors.

-Thank you.
-Okay, cool.

Lock it up, gang.
Here we go.

From the top.
Reading from the dolly prompter.

Settle in, please. Let's roll
sound and roll cameras.

Rolling.

All right. Here we go, guys.

That's four cameras.
On your mark.

And action.

I'm Brian Armstrong,
co-founder and CEO of Coinbase.

When Coinbase first got started,

we were a simple place for
people to buy and sell Bitcoin.

The largest
US cryptocurrency exchange

is about to be a publicly
traded company

after years of scepticism
from Wall Street about Bitcoin.

Coinbase is a company

to create more economic
freedom for every--

Try that one again.

Get ready to go again.

Coinbase really helped
to take cryptocurrency

from an internet hobby
for coders

to a mainstream
investment today.

I imagined a world where
anybody with a smartphone

could have access to sound
money and financial services,

where every payment
could be as fast,

cheap and global
as sending an email.

We're helping make this happen

by building the open financial
system for the world.

That sounded like a question.

-For the world?
-Still rolling.

-For the world!
-Action.

By building the open financial
system for the world.

We're cut.

We're flying.

I grew up
in San Jose, California.

The early days
of the dot-com boom

was happening in
Silicon Valley.

Pretty cool ride, Bri.

The spacecraft has landed.

It was kind of
a nerdy household.

Right there with the camera. Hi.

What is your name
and how are you related to me?

I'm Dave Armstrong
and I'm your dad.

My dad was an
environmental engineer.

Okay, and you.

If you don't know now,
it's too late.

My mom worked at IBM.

She was one of the early women
computer programmers.

-Ow!
-I was really shy as a kid,

and I felt like I have
these good ideas,

but people don't listen to me.

Hello, everyone.

This is Brian's room.

My molecule poster
and my iguana.

He was very interested
in computers,

so we shopped around and tried
to find a deal on a used one,

and we finally got him one

that was a pretty good
working computer,

but it had a German keyboard.

And so we said, uh,

"Here's your computer, Brian.

Uh, it's up to you to
figure out how to use it."

In high school,
I built this website.

I remember, I went to sleep
and I woke up in the morning

and I checked the stats

and, like, a thousand people
looked at it

while I was sleeping.

It's like making
a copy of myself,

talking to these thousand
people all over the world.

That was, like,
the coolest feeling ever.

And when I went to college,

my roommate and I
were trying to think

about how to make
some extra cash.

And I realized if we were
to tutor high school students,

yeah, we could
make great money.

We decided,
let's make a web app.

It was called University Tutor.

I thought getting customers
would be the hard part,

but the movement of the money
was actually the hardest part.

Somebody from our bank
called us one day

and they're like,
"What are you guys doing?

Why is this money moving
in these certain patterns?"

And, you know, um, "Are you
aggregating customer funds?"

And I'm like, "I don't know
what that means."

And it felt like I was actually
being treated like a criminal.

I was disappointed, I couldn't
ever get it to break out

and be a real success.

So, after I graduated college,

I ended up selling it.

I felt like, what do
I want to do with my life?

I wanted to put myself
out of my comfort zone.

So, I decided to move
to Buenos Aires for a year.

"Where are you going
to live?" "Well, I don't know.

There's this
or something."

"I'll go see
if they have a room there."

And I mean,
it's just sort of really loose,

freer than I would have been.

One of the things I did
notice living in Argentina

is that they have
this really amazing culture

and people there
are really proud,

but they also have this history

of really deep distrust
of the government.

I got to see what an economy
and a culture looked like

that had gone through, um,
hyperinflation

and didn't have a well-run
monetary system.

I remember these menus
I saw at a restaurant.

Prices would update due to
inflation frequently enough

that they had to put
new stickers on top

instead of printing new menus.

One of the things
that stuck with me was that

they didn't believe that
the future could be better.

I remember feeling kind
of frustrated about that.

It felt like, "Yeah,
this is just kind of wrong."

Around Christmas time, 2010,

I came back to California and I
was just home with my family

and I happened to come across
the Bitcoin Whitepaper.

I think it was Christmas dinner,
and we were saying,

"Come on down, we got dinner
hot on the table."

And he was saying,
"Just wait, just wait."

It was describing

something kind of like
the Internet that was global

and decentralized that
no company or country owned.

But instead of
for moving information around

like the Internet,
it was for moving value around.

I thought,
"Oh my gosh, this could have

an enormous impact
on the world."

I remember my mother
at some point was like,

you know, "Come down
and spend time with the family."

And I was like, "I'm reading
this really important thing."

I don't know. He didn't come
down and talk about it, though.

No, no, no. Because we wouldn't
have understood it, if he did.

After Christmas,
I got back on the plane.

I started flying
back to Buenos Aires.

And I remember having this
sinking feeling in my stomach.

"Oh, my gosh. Why am I leaving?
I'm going the wrong direction."

The Bitcoin Whitepaper

was a major technological
breakthrough.

It actually solved
the number of major

computer science challenges,

and it allowed a new thing
to exist in the world

that people found valuable.

Each time we figured out how to
do a new thing on the Internet,

we fundamentally disrupted
a major industry.

Email disrupted
the postal office,

the World Wide Web disrupted
all of media and advertising.

SSL allowed us to do
commerce over the Internet.

One way to conceive of Bitcoin

is it's the technology
that allows us

to move money over the Internet.

We've had lots of digital
monies for a long time,

but they were regulated by banks

and other big large institutions
like a national government.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency
that takes a very different view

where it's decentralized

and not in the control
of a central state.

Anyone can access and earn and
receive, store and send bitcoin

without asking
anyone for permission,

no matter where
they are in the world.

All they need
is internet access.

Bitcoin is providing
a form of economic freedom

to everybody on Earth
that we never had before.

Bitcoin is giving
the power to the people

and making it more of
an even playing field.

Doesn't matter their background
or race or ethnicity.

Poor kids, black kids,
Spanish kids, whoever,

you can participate and not have
to be from Wall Street.

Modern money,
as we know it

more or less started in
the Depression, in the 1930s.

And yet it feels to us
that the way money is now

is the way money
has always been,

and that any other way
to do money is ridiculous.

Money becomes money

when a lot of people
believe that it is money, right?

Like if I make up
Goldstein Bucks

and only I think it's money,
it's not money.

But if 100 people
think it's money,

then it's, like, kind of money
for those hundred people.

If we all buy
and sell stuff with it,

it's like money
a little bit for us.

If a million people
think it's money,

like, it's pretty money-ish now.

If 100 million people
think it's money,

it is definitely money.

Bitcoin today still feels to
many people like an uncertain,

slightly crazy, outside
of the mainstream idea.

Back up ten years ago,

people would've thought
you absolutely insane.

I came back
from Argentina

and eventually,
took a job at Airbnb,

but I kind of just couldn't
stop thinking about Bitcoin.

I just had this very
visceral sense

that the economy
is becoming more global,

but many of the countries
around the world

don't have stable financial
systems, and it's deeply unfair.

lI really believed
in the potential of Bitcoin

to create empowerment
for people,

but it needs to be
dramatically easier to use

and trusted and safe.

Using Bitcoin at that time
was pretty difficult.

If you wanted to buy some,
you had to send a wire

to one of the only
Bitcoin exchanges

at that time called Mt. Gox,
which was in Japan.

Frankly, it was not the most
trustworthy place.

Authorities in Tokyo arrested

the former head
of the Japan-based

Mt. Gox for allegedly
falsifying financial records.

Several hundred million dollars
were unaccounted for.

Also, by the way, if you
actually acquire any bitcoin

and your hard drive crashed,
your bitcoin would be gone.

So, I felt like the solution
is a hosted Bitcoin wallet.

In the evenings and weekends,

I started tinkering
with this prototype.

The big idea was
make Bitcoin easier to use.

Just the concept
of cryptocurrency, what's that--

And how are you going
to make a living off of it?

I'm not sure
we still understand that.

-Yeah.

The analogies
that I had in my mind

were services like Gmail.

If you lost your phone
or your computer,

your email wasn't all gone,
it was in the cloud

and people were doing security
and backups for you.

I remember I was
talking to somebody,

"Yeah, I'm thinking
about launching

a hosted Bitcoin wallet."

And this guy was like, "Oh, my
gosh, that's a terrible idea."

I thought, maybe I'm crazy.
You know, I was like,

"I think this is kind of
cool and interesting,

but like, nobody else
seems to think so."

Let me apply to Y Combinator
and see what they say.

Y Combinator
is a startup incubator,

meaning it funds a whole
bunch of startups at once

and then tries to
help them get rolling.

The minute I got
accepted into Y Combinator,

I decided I was quitting
my job at Airbnb

and starting this new company.

How is he going to survive?
Does he have health care?

What's going to happen here?

Does he have enough to eat?

So, unfortunately,
very few startups succeed.

We tend to think
of the ones that do.

Google or PayPal,

these kind of iconic
public companies.

This is why we created HUD Log.

Statistically, the chance
of a startup going public

is less than a percent for sure.

I can't wait to tell you more.

Going public is for founders

what winning an Academy Award
is for an actor.

All right, I need to
pick some name for this thing.

I'd happen to be reading
the Wikipedia entry

for the Bitcoin protocol, and I
saw the word Coinbase in there.

Coinbase is okay.

I didn't love the name,
but I'll change it later.

Coinbase is a hosted
Bitcoin platform.

You can access your money
from any device.

You don't have to worry
about security and backups.

We'd love to
have you bring it...

We'd love to have you help us

bring it to the rest of them.
I need to...

For three months, you go through
this Y Combinator boot camp

and then you go pitch
at Demo Day

in front of all these investors.

Coinbase is doing for Bitcoin

what iTunes did to the MP3.

Brian's idea
was not a hot deal

with investors after Demo Day.

This was not the one
that every investor

in the Valley was talking about

and felt like they had
to have a piece of.

It was really depressing.

After I graduated
from Y Combinator,

there was a lot of things that
I couldn't figure out how to do,

and I needed to find
a co-founder.

I kind of grew up
on the Internet,

played way too many video games.

My parents thought that
was a total waste of time.

Fred was,
certainly in high school,

into that in a pretty
serious way.

To the point where,
in my opinion,

he was kind of losing sleep

and we needed to tell him
to kind of go to bed.

One time to try
to get me to stop playing,

my mom shut off the circuit
breaker for the whole house.

Needless to say,
she was unsuccessful.

After college, I went
to work at Goldman Sachs

as a foreign exchange trader.

I thought it was
the closest I would get

to playing a video game
for a real reputable job.

Goldman is an elite institution,

and the job that he got
was well into the 1%.

When I got there,
I learned

that this video game wasn't that
much fun unfortunately.

I'd found Bitcoin on a blog
one night and became obsessed.

It got to the point
where I was trading Bitcoin

in the bathroom at work.

One day I see this post saying,

"I've created this demo app

that makes it really easy
to use crypto

and I'm looking for somebody
to work on it with."

Here I am thinking,

"Yeah, it kind of seems like
cryptocurrency is small

and crazy and feels like
a toy right now, but, um...

that seems like something
I would really

want to spend
my time working on."

My cell phone rings
and it's Fred.

And Fred says,

"Dad, I think I'm going
to go join this startup."

And I said, "Okay."

He decided to turn his back
on lifetime financial security,

sell all his stuff,

go out to the West Coast
for a highly risky venture.

The office was
a glorified apartment.

It looked like
a bachelor pad.

-I think I--
-It was an old building.

And as a matter of fact,

about a year or two after
they were in there,

a piece of the building
fell over-- fell off

and hit somebody in the head.

-I was-- It was serious, I--
-Inside the building?

Outside the building. I mean,
it was an old, old building.

We spent all of
our waking hours together.

Six to seven days a week.

Constantly thinking about what
can we do to make this better.

It became clear that
Fred had insane work ethic

and we had very
complementary skill sets.

I didn't know for sure
if it would work out,

but there was something
special happening.

At some level, it almost
didn't even feel like work

just because I think
we were having so much fun

while we were doing it.

We both did a bunch
of coding and engineering,

worked on the product,

and then we both did a lot of
customer support late at night.

It was getting to
a place where, like,

our whole day was
answering support tickets

and we realized
we need to start hiring.

Hmm, I re-- I mean, I remember

I came into their office

and, uh I thought I had
a good chat with them.

I remember thinking,
"This guy

is really high-potential."

I reached out to him and asked

if you would be willing
to consider joining Coinbase.

I am just like,

"Unfortunately, I am kind of,

uh, busy with this thing,

but, you know,
best of luck with your journey."

I was in Washington state
working as a lumberjack,

but I was paying very close
attention to what was happening

in the cryptocurrency landscape.

And I wanted to see this
in the world.

So, I just emailed Jobs@Coinbase
and said, "I'll do anything."

I knew I didn't have
any concrete skills other than

I knew a lot about Bitcoin
and I was ready to work hard.

The team felt like a family.

What's special about
a startup, right,

is that everybody is sort
of like "sick" with you

and share a vision
for the future.

We felt at the time like

we're doing
something incredible,

but people would sign up
for the product

and they would never
come back and use it.

So, business wasn't growing
and we were on the verge

of running out of money and we
did not have product market fit.

One of the key attributes
of entrepreneurs is

being too stupid to know
they're going to fail.

There's really
very few startups

that make any sense
at-- at the point of startup.

Otherwise that firm
would already exist.

I called up some people
who had signed up to use the app

and I was like,
"What do you think?"

And they would say,
"Well, I like the product,

but I don't really
have any bitcoin,

so I didn't have
anything to use it for."

So that kind of made
me think, "Well,

if there was a button
to buy bitcoin in the app,

so you had some,
would you use that?"

And they were like,
"Maybe, yeah."

We posted online
that the feature was live.

We went to bed, the next day,
bunch of people used it.

And the day after
even more people used it.

And the day after even more.

It goes from pushing
a boulder up a hill every day

to the boulders
rolling downhill

and you're chasing it
as fast as you can.

We were being inundated
with customer support inquiries.

The website was
periodically going offline.

We had all kinds of hackers
trying to break into the site.

From 8:00 p.m. until 2:00 a.m.
was Brian's uninterrupted moment

to actually build the website.

We developed this system
where, interrupt me if it is a--

if it is some kind of emergency,

but we had to define emergency.

I would run up to him
with a Post-it note

and I would write "red alert"

and hold it up for him
while he was still working.

I think it was, like,
the number of digits of money

we would lose if this wasn't
fixed in the next hour.

Our bank was, like,
calling us every day.

"We're probably gonna
turn off your bank account

if you don't get some more
money in your account."

And at that moment, we rushed
out to raise the Series-A.

The Series-A is where
a venture capital firm

will place a bold bet
on the company, saying,

"Hey, we think this
has a chance of being

a billion-dollar-plus company."

So, in late 2012,
I got an email from Paul Graham.

It said, "Hey, Fred, we're ready
to do the Series-A in Coinbase.

Can I introduce
you to Brian and Fred?"

We were so burned out
and sleep deprived,

we didn't really have
a slide deck or anything.

And we basically said,
"Here's our revenue graph.

We're using our working
capital to fund this

and we're going to
run out of money

in the next two weeks.
Do you want to invest?"

In the super early days,

Crypto company founders
were either scam artists

or they were almost
like religious zealots.

I meet Brian
and he explains to me,

"I'm a former security
engineer at Airbnb.

I know how to secure
crypto assets,

we'll comply
with the regulations."

And he just seemed pragmatic.

All right. We're, uh,
uncapping the champagne.

-We're just getting ready.
-What are we celebrating?

We're celebrating, uh,

the fact that
earlier this morning

we, uh, checked our bank account
and it happened to have

five million more dollars in it
than it did last night.

That is accurate.

-It didn't go.
-What?

We briefly
took a adjournment

from the monitors in the
office to go up to the roof

and celebrate.

-You want some?
-Yeah.

Kind of popped it
and we kind of drank it,

mostly just spilled a lot
of champagne everywhere.

-Cheers.
-Cheers, boys.

But I remember
it was maybe two minutes

and then it was like, "All
right, we got shit to do now."

Today we're talking
about Bitcoin

and we're talking to the founder
and CEO of Coinbase.

Coinbase's Brian Armstrong.

Co-founder of Coinbase,
Fred Ehrsam.

I'm really excited tonight
to, um, share with you

a little bit about Coinbase.

Okay, what is Bitcoin?

What is Bitcoin?

A digital currency

without the need
for a central bank.

-What is a Bitcoin?
-Yes.

Same thing email has
done for communication,

-Bitcoin is doing for money.
-It's quicker.

It works everywhere
in the world.

You don't buy bitcoin.

No, you can. There are
currency traders online.

Yeah, one bitcoin
is worth $3.

We literally have our
parents try the product.

Does it look like
a normal wallet?

It's on your phone.

So, instead of carrying
it in your back pocket--

Yeah, let's see
what's in your wallet.

It's kind of--

I'm told that the, uh, protocol
was developed

by a anonymous programmer,
Satoshi Nakamoto.

You don't think
it was Al Gore, do you?

Bitcoin's big day.

The, uh, cryptocurrency's hit

the $1,000 value mark.

It was pretty remarkable.

The traffic on the site
would grow tenfold

in a matter of a month or two.

We felt like all hands on deck
just to keep everything running

and we had to scale really fast,
we hired a ton of people.

We almost 3Xed in headcount.

You know,
it's the launch of the first

US-based Bitcoin exchange.

I think we're now the largest
exchange in the US by volume.

-High five. Nice.
-Thank you.

And it's like nothing
that I've ever experienced.

You feel like you're at the
centre of the universe,

you know?

The price of bitcoin
went through $11,000.

I could care less
what bitcoin trades for,

how it trades,
why it trades,

who trades it.
If you're stupid to buy,

you'll pay the price
for it one day.

Crypto is out there
and it's not going away.

But the question is, can we take

the same technology
behind Bitcoin

and can we use it
for more than just money?

That's basically
what Ethereum is.

When Ethereum
first came out,

Fred came to me and he was like,
"This actually is a big deal."

We should go beyond
just being a Bitcoin company.

We have to add Ethereum.

Initially
I was a little sceptical,

but I-- the more
I looked into it,

the more I felt like
he was right.

Our mission at Coinbase

is to create an open

financial
system for the world.

Billions of people
have smartphones,

but they don't have
a bank account.

So, the cost of opening
a bank account is zero.

Soon the world
is only going to buy

and sell products
using bitcoins.

Bitcoin has no
unique value at all.

It doesn't produce anything.
You can stare at it all day

and no little bitcoins come out
or anything like that.

It's a delusion.

I fundamentally believe
it is being used

primarily for
illegal activities.

This is Silk Road.

It's an eBay for drugs
that use Bitcoin

as the means of exchange.

One of the biggest Bitcoin
exchanges called Mt. Gox,

based in Tokyo, went bust.

Calls into question
the future of Bitcoin.

Mt. Gox got hacked
and, like, Bitcoin crashed

and the media went away
and things cooled off.

The numbers
are pretty eye-watering

in terms of the scale of
the drop that we are seeing.

Price of crypto have
been trending down.

Our revenue is flat to down.

A lot of our competitors decided
to pivot to do something else.

We were getting to a place
where we felt like,

if this doesn't
turn around soon,

we're going to
have to do a lay-off.

Did anyone read that article
about Bitcoin I sent you?

At the end of 2017,
we started

to see another crypto rally.

Bitcoins are booming.

Bitcoin broke another record.

We are going through
this period of growth

that is almost never seen.

This started as two
people in an apartment

and now we're discussing
global expansion.

-The Wild West.
-It is.

-It really is, you're like--
-Yeah.

You're like a cowboy
in the Wild West.

-Well, thanks, Brian.
-Thanks, Fred.

Brian's a very
sort of calm, reserved,

strategic, long-term thinker.

And Fred's-- kind of was like--
want to mix it up, you know,

constantly mixing it up.

And of course, that combo
is what made things work.

But there was a lot of
tension in the relationship.

The closest parallel

to having co-founders
is a marital relationship.

You're spending a huge
amount of time together.

Your economic futures
are conjoined.

Uh, you have visions
about where you're going,

where those visions, you're
always going to be working.

They're never going
to be perfectly aligned.

Brian and I met in August of
2013, and what he told me was,

"I'm looking for a coach

to take care of
the co-founder relationship."

Fred and I had our first
difficult conversation.

"Would you be willing
to meet with us?"

I think co-founder
relationships are

just like any
other relationship.

They're all complicated

and you have to keep
investing in them,

like going to the gym.

It's not like you just
do it once and you're done.

Brian started sharing with me
a bit about what was going on,

a conversation between them,

and a couple minutes
into the session,

I looked at Fred and I said,
"You don't want to be here."

And his response was,
"No fucking way."

Pejoratively, I viewed it
as armchair therapy.

This is for weak people.

I don't want my brain
reprogrammed this way.

What Brian and Fred
needed to work out

is at the end of the day,

one of you is CEO
and one of you's not.

And that's a difficult situation
for the non-CEO co-founder.

Fred always wanted
to run the company

and it was never
going to happen.

Brian was and is
the CEO at Coinbase.

I think he's done
a great job in that role,

but ultimately, I think that
was a limiting factor for me.

So, over time, I got
really excited about,

um, I'm removing that
glass ceiling for myself

and starting something where,

uh, the sky was the limit
personally.

Fred, he's kind
of a natural leader

and he wasn't going to be
the CEO of Coinbase.

I didn't want to
step down as CEO,

and I was really sad to lose him

because Fred and I
are kind of like brothers.

Brian's one of my closest
friends in the world.

Of course, it's emotional,

but, um, I look back on that

and-- and think we handled it
pretty well.

I do feel emotions.

I don't express them
the same way as other people.

You know,
I probably have Asperger's,

like, somewhere on the spectrum.

When I left Coinbase,
I took some time off.

I thought it was
really important

to explore all the different
potential ideas

I could try
and-- and venture into next.

On to Bitcoin now.
The cryptocurrency kicked off

the New Year by tumbling.

It's down 50% from the record

set just about a month ago.

Bitcoin is going to collapse

because Bitcoin itself
has no value.

It's gonna come
caving in,

it's-- it's almost
a guarantee.

Let me actually do
the hard Q&A first.

Okay, that's fine.

I just
want you to really nail this.

I want you to tell this audience

what the heck
it's used for today.

Can you-- can you buy stuff?

Is it investment?

It seems quite volatile.

Please explain Bitcoin to us.

Well, that was a lot, so, uh,

I'll-- I'll try to start
at the beginning.

Uh, cryptocurrency
is just digital money

and that's the simplest
way to understand it.

And people don't need to
understand all the technology,

how it works underneath.
They're buying crypto

because they wanna
own a little piece of it

because they think it
might go up in the future.

And really, there's just
a ton of potential

about how it can evolve
in the next ten years.

So, for that answer,

start with Bitcoin.

-Start pretty simply

-with Bitcoin.
-Yeah.

Brian, these days
when you talk about

cryptocurrencies to laymen,

how quickly do people's
eyes glaze over?

It's kind of this
mind-bending thing

when you first read about it,
uh,

that takes people a little while
to wrap their head around.

The short explanation
I give to people,

I say, "This is digital money."

And instead of for moving
information around

like the Internet,
this is for moving value around.

So, what effect
do the crypto scandals

have on what
you're trying to do?

Whenever a new technology
gets created,

it can be used for good or bad.

It's kind of the Wild West.

And so, um, that's been--
I feel like our role

is to be hopefully
an adult in the room

and go proactively
seek out, uh, regulators

and see how we can create, um,
a more trusted environment.

So, you've been described
as a Vulcan Swiss banker.

I haven't heard
that one in a while.

I didn't quite know what
that meant, uh, when I read it.

It's sort of inscrutable and,

you know,
hard to get information out of.

But actually, I find you
quite charming and open.

Is-- is this the-- the new
Brian Armstrong?

Um...

Well, I was a software
engineer, right?

I had never managed anybody.

And when you-- when you go make
something and then suddenly it's

like, "Oh, shoot, I need to
figure out how to be a CEO,"

right? I'm trying to find
my voice as CEO.

But, you know,

I'm-- I'm hopefully becoming
a little more comfortable

in my own skin and, um, I
think- I think- we got along

-pretty well, Bill.
-Yeah. Great to meet you.

And, uh, we'll carry on.

Part of me actually
really doesn't like the idea

of being a public figure

because I feel like
it's so risky.

People treat you weird,
in weird ways

and, um, you know, you could
slip up and say the wrong

thing and just be--

The angry mob
will come after you.

I've been getting
all this advice that's like,

"Well, crypto needs
a face of the industry.

-Maybe you can be it."
-Yeah!

And it's like, oh!

-The--
-It's-- I'm-- I'm like a relu

I'm, like, reluctantly
trying it out,

we'll see how it goes.

To be a successful entrepreneur,
it's very difficult

to not develop the skills
of an extrovert.

They might be introverts,
naturally,

but they figure out a way to be

very extroverted when it comes
to their stakeholders.

They say, "The meek
will inherit the earth."

They're not going
to inherit the Nasdaq.

I remember
seeing other CEOs

and I would
always be so impressed.

I was like,
"Man, they're so confident.

And that doesn't
look anything like me."

While Fred was at the company,

a lot of the decisions
were made.

Just Fred and I
would get in a room,

hash out all the options,

choose the least bad one
and move forward.

When he left, I was feeling
a little overwhelmed

running the whole thing.

You can feel like

your identity is wrapped up
in this thing,

and so if it fails, I've failed.

Now I'm questioning, it's like,
"What does it even mean

for me to build something?

I'm not writing
the code any more.

I haven't written a code
in five years.

-Um--
-Do you enjoy it?

-Um--
-What do you love?

Forgetting everything
that is today--

-Yeah.
-that you-- that you've done

already in your life,
what did you love doing?

I like just coming up
with an idea for something

and-- and going and making it
exist in the world.

We live
in an extroverted world.

Most introverts feel like they
don't fit in because of that.

Introverts now,

I think, are forming majority
of tech leaders

in Silicon Valley

because, of course, most
tech leaders are themselves

world class programmers.

And you don't become
a world class programmer

unless you start young

and spend a fairly significant
amount of time on the machine,

which means not interacting
with other humans.

The elephant in the room is that
you don't love to manage people,

and my prediction, therefore,
is that you're not good at it.

Now I'd like you to go.

I want you to go Cro-Magnon,

whether you think
you're Cro-Magnon or not.

-Wow.
-Doesn't matter.

-Okay.
-And the structure of "I blame"

-forces you to go Cro-Magnon.
-Okay.

Matt, I-- I blame you for, um,

being so persistent on this

and not letting it un-- unfold
naturally.

Every time we meet,
we have to talk about

the same Goddamn issue.

And we've been over
this a million times.

Just like,
let me do my own thing.

Awesome.
Who else can you blame?

Um, yeah, I blame myself,
too,

for trying to hold onto this
thing that I'm not great at

and, um, isn't bringing me--
it isn't raising my energy.

Are you willing to sort of see
how these are crazy thoughts,

you blaming yourself
and you blaming other people?

-Yeah.
-That no one's a villain here.

-Yeah.
-They're all just people that

are trying to do their best.

-Yeah.
-Right on.

Awesome.

If I can share
a thought with him,

like Brian, you're completely

fucking up your role as CEO,

and here's what
I recommend you do.

And with almost any other person
the-- their ego would go, "What?

How dare you
say such a thing to me?

I am all powerful."

And with Brian, a big smile
comes over on his face.

And the first thing
he says is, "Thank you."

Because all he cares
about is improving

and therefore feedback
is the most precious gift

that he can receive.

Because of how
fast we're growing,

the dynamics of trust within the
company change really quickly.

Not too far before I joined,

it was like this level
of assumed best

because we were, like,
fewer than 150 people.

We all kind of know each other,

um, and pretty quickly we move
far beyond that number

and there isn't the same sort of
assumed trust between employees.

Yeah, I agree.
At 150 people,

I can keep in my mind everything
we're basically working on

and who everybody is
and their name and what they do.

And past 150, it's like, that's
even difficult to keep track of.

And occasionally,
you'll pop into some meeting

to hear a status update,

and you're like,
"That's happening

in the company I created?"

And, like, I can't believe it.

We're about 800 employees now

and we're learning how to
operate at this larger scale.

You're never going
to retain great talent

if you don't treat
them with respect

and give them opportunities
for growth.

And also top people,
they don't want

to come work at companies

unless they have some
mission or purpose

that's bigger
than just making money.

Looking at the event
object and just printing out

everything that it has...

It feels like I could be
building the infrastructure

for the future
of the financial industry.

Democratizing
money is a huge deal.

So, as soon as I read
the Bitcoin Whitepaper,

I was immediately like,
"Yes, I have to do this."

I work on key storage,
but it's all designed.

So, like, especially
I can't take the key.

I mean,
I like to think of myself

as, like,
a blue-collar engineer.

I'm here less about,
like, speculating on cryptos

and more because there's
cool problems to work on.

A lot of the people in crypto

grew up during
the 2008 financial crisis.

I grew up seeing
my neighbourhoods

being decimated by foreclosures

and family members
losing their houses and jobs.

So, I don't trust banks.

A bank is a
testament to a belief system.

You trust that the bank
will take care of your cash,

but you also trust

in the overall financial
system that it represents.

And in so many towns
and villages and cities,

the major buildings for a long
time were banks and churches.

The idea of the bank was to be

the place that protected
your money

and everything about
the architecture

was intended to make you feel
that your money was safe.

The banks made that impressive
architecture in part

because that's the psychological
game of, like,

making people feel
like they can trust them.

And so, you know,

if you have the impressive
columns and like,

"Oh, look, you know,
this is like the Acropolis,

come on, like, this bank
is totally going to last

2,000 years."

Let me just try to paint
a picture of what

a bank would look like

if it were decentralized,

because a bank
is a centralized thing.

They have your account balance,

their power over you
and everyone

drives from
their exclusive access

to those account balances.

But there's a different way

to organize those
account balances

where each of, say,
a thousand computers

has a copy of those
account balances.

If they then agree
on each change

because they see
a digital signature

by the account owners,

they can move money
from my account

and a majority of them agree

it will always be a consistent
set of account balances.

So, it's a beautiful thing.

Part of the genius
thing about Bitcoin is

you don't have to trust
any one person.

There is no one
person in charge.

Nobody runs Bitcoin.

Nobody is the boss
of Bitcoin, right?

The code is what
you're trusting.

So, it doesn't matter
who Satoshi Nakamoto is,

it doesn't matter at all.

You don't have to trust
Satoshi Nakamoto to use Bitcoin.

You just have to trust the code.

If you think about the history
of financial scandals

recently, the London Whale
trade, the mortgage crisis,

things like that,

all of those things at some
level were examples of where

human-trusted parties
are fallible

or-- or even potentially
criminal.

But technology is technology.

It-- it isn't criminal.
It has no motive.

It's not looking
to make more money.

It just balances accounts.

That's why crypto
ultimately is solving

a-- a thousand-year
financial problem

and it will supply the trust
that has been lacking.

Oh, my god.
Donut Day.

We're here
highlighting different features

and products to figure out ways

to actually use cryptocurrencies

to buy, like, day-to-day items
such as donuts and burritos.

My personal favourites.

I'm so glad you guys are
doing these dogfooding sessions.

The reason it's
called a dogfooding event

is the idea that when
you're trying to, like,

teach your dog new things,
you give it treats.

You're basically
incentivizing people

to try out this new product that
we are going to launch tomorrow.

That's weird. I can't use
my, um, USD coin as payment

to instantly buy.

-You have to do a conversion.
-Yeah, conversion.

That's a fail.

Where's my--
Where's the consumer team?

Awaiting payments.

-Actually I sent-- Hmm.
-So, it says pending?

Yeah, it should take
a little bit of time,

this is from the consumer app.

This is one of the things I want
to try to instrument this here

that's like end-to-end, what is
our average time from a person,

like, pulling out their phone
to seeing a green check box?

-Hi, Brian.
-Hey, how's it going?

-I'm Marilyn. Just joined.
-Good to meet you.

-Oh, nice. Which--
-Compliance.

Compliance? Welcome to the team.

-When Bitcoin came out it was--
-You got excited about it?

Oh, my God,
this can change the world.

-Yeah.
-And, uh, but, uh, yeah.

I-- I thought by now we would be
mainstream.

-Yeah, well, this is--
-And, uh...

This is why I want
to do stuff like this,

'cause for it to be mainstream,

we have to iron out
all these little bugs.

All right, good stuff, guys.

I'll send in my feedback,

-but this is really good.
-Thanks, Brian.

Yeah, cheers.

Even something as simple
as the credit card,

when it was first created,

no one knew how to use it.

When you walk up to the store,
do you give it with one hand?

Do you give it with two hands?

We had to learn
how to do all of those things

and the same thing
is true of crypto.

It doesn't feel native
to a lot of people today.

In order to actually get
to mainstream adoption,

we have to demystify this space.

All right,
we're live on YouTube.

Hey, everyone.
I'm here with Sam McIngvale.

We've had a lot of good
questions from the community.

"What is the next level
in, quote, 'trust'?

To become the most trusted is
a low bar in digital currency."

I would push back
a little bit on that

"Trust is a low bar
in digital currency."

Having seen firsthand
how much effort

goes into securing
digital assets,

it's incredible. I mean,
it is a level of investment

that, uh, is actually
unparalleled

in any other asset class.

And then how
do you build trust?

Trust, I mentioned
this briefly earlier,

to me, it's track record.

Many banks have existed
for well over a hundred years.

I mean, Wells Fargo's logo
is people coming west,

you know, in the late 1800s.

Um, it's going to take some time
for trust to really build.

Trust is like this reservoir.

You know, you can-- Every
little action that you take,

you can put a little bit into
the reservoir and bank it up.

And then,
you know, if something--

You make a mistake, you can--

you might have to make a little
withdrawal of that reservoir.

Um, so, I-- I'd like to think
we're putting those in-- in

there so that if we ever do make
a mistake, at some point,

we can come back and fix it
and people will kind of give us

the benefit of the doubt.

People are mad.

Delete Coinbase
is a movement that

just started recently
after the acquisition

of Neutrino by Coinbase.

Neutrino is a, we'll say,

controversial blockchain
analytics company.

Coinbase acquired Neutrino,

which was a group of people
from Hacking Team,

which was an organization

that used to, like,
work for dictators

to hunt down dissidents.

Hacking Team are responsible

for selling spyware
to oppressive governments.

I have to talk to
you about Hacking Team.

It's a really--
I know it's a tough one

-Yeah.
-and you've taken a lot of,

I-- I think, well-deserved
criticism for this one.

It's definitely a-- an area
where we made a mistake.

We went on and did some
diligence on the team,

but most of our diligence was
around the technology itself.

What we failed to do
was the diligence

that was kind of
more around, um, our values

and our culture
and-- and that kind of thing.

So, when we did
make the acquisition,

we started to see
a lot of noise online

about people saying,
"Hey, do you know--

do you know
who you just acquired?"

While we looked hard
at the technology

and the security
of the Neutrino products,

we did not properly
evaluate everything

from the perspective
of our mission

and our values
of the crypto company.

We took some time
to dig further into this

and together with
the Neutrino team

have come to an agreement.

Those who previously worked
at Hacking Team

will transition out of Coinbase.

If your due
diligence fails on this,

how are people meant to
trust you with the privacy

related to their
purchase of bitcoin?

Yeah, there-- there's really no
excuse I can give you.

So, all I can tell you is that
we make mistakes as well.

And, um, a lot of
building a company is like

trying to learn
from the mistakes

and just get better over time.

If you don't have the ability
to be beaned in the face

and then get up

and, you know,
blood spewing everywhere,

get back to the plate
and try and swing harder,

you know, you're not meant
to be an entrepreneur.

All right, sorry I'm late.

It's easier to consume content

when it's in sort of
a template, you know?

So, I was almost imagining

we could get this down
to three slides.

I mean, I'm going to
be nit-picky here,

but let's just kill
all the text.

That'd be my
default solution.

I think sometime
next week you should see

a new version ship
that'll be much more stable.

This is really cool,
I'm glad that we're doing

such extensive user testing.

'Cause, like, if we're actually
gonna get a hundred million

people or a billion people
using this thing,

it's like-- it's got to be
way simpler.

-Absolutely.
-Yeah.

We're kind of caught in,
I think, an inflection point

where we have to be
eyes wide open about

what really is gonna
resonate with people?

Well, and crypto is
just not understood.

I think people tell themselves
that's not for me.

A few things need to happen

for Bitcoin to become
more mainstream.

We need to drive real world
utility of Bitcoin because

um, today people are speculating
on the eventual uses of it

and they're, like, this is going
to be, you know,

the future of the entire
Internet economy

or it's going to be useless.

And they-- they hav--
They oscillate

between irrational
exuberance and despair.

Cryptocurrencies
went on a wild ride today,

wiping out recent gains.

Bitcoin has
now plummeted about 60%,

falling below $6,000,

and trading right around
an eight-month low...

You have to understand.

Whenever crypto
has, like, a cold moment,

you have to see my phone.

People are telling me
their lives are over.

I'm like, "Guys,
like, the key to crypto

is that every time
we have a crash,

the ceiling raises
a little more every time."

So, the first time Bitcoin
crashes to a couple hundred

bucks, next time it
crashes to a thousand.

Next time it crashes to five,
next time it crashes to 20.

We've seen the volatility
of Bitcoin decrease every year

for, like, the last five years

and it's now less volatile
than some fiat currencies.

From my commerce experience,

this is how commerce
kind of works, right?

It works in spikes.

If you have some
users kind of coming

and then you do a big
sell event and it spikes,

and then it settles in a next

-kind of higher baseline--
-Right.

and then it spikes again
and it spikes again,

-Yeah.
-Kind of like similar problem--

-It's like crypto.
-Hopefully-- like crypto.

I'm trying
to always hire people

who are better than me
at each of their disciplines.

Our Chief Product Officer,
Surojit, who just joined,

was at Google previously
and then at Flipkart.

He helped both
of those companies

grow to the next level.

When I joined
Coinbase, people were like,

"Every few years we have
this bull runs in crypto

and then everything breaks

because we just cannot estimate

how much demand will--
will come to our platform."

So, I thought, okay,
let's create a project

to prepare for
this bull run scenario

and we have to do it now
when there is no bull run.

And what could be a good
name for that project?

Pamplona is this city in Spain

where they have these
bull runs every year

Project Pamplona.

The next bull run
in crypto happens

and our systems start failing,
the opposite happens.

You actually-- your baselines
shifts downward.

That's a big risk for us.

There will be glitches

and you have to prepare
for the glitches.

It's like how NASA, for example,
sends that rover on Mars.

They will have, like,
ways to fix those

failures or glitches remotely.

They have backup systems
and so forth.

That's how we always
think about it.

When I look back
at early days of Google,

there was always this thinking

that we are building a company
that comes once in a lifetime.

I see a similar ambition
and possibilities

and I think that possibility
exists not just for Coinbase,

for the entire crypto industry.

Of the 90% of people who
have heard of cryptocurrency,

I'd say half have probably
just heard it in passing

and know that it's some
kind of new crazy

Internet money thing.

And then I think there
is a small minority

who start to have a glimpse
of the larger picture,

which is crypto will
be the biggest force

in driving quality of life
across the board.

Crypto has the highest
likelihood of being helpful

in places where
something is broken.

Governance, financial
institutions, social bonds.

There are over two billion
smartphones out there

and far fewer
than that bank accounts.

And now with this technology,

you can effectively have
a bank account on your phone.

And that may not be
interesting to, you know,

an American or Western European,

but it's very interesting
to someone living

under hyperinflation,
like in Venezuela.

Their money is depreciating
by about 50% a month.

The money is becoming worthless.

Fundamentally, we just wanna see
if we can help people with this.

But one of ancillary goals
or secondary goals

is can we actually spark
crypto economies in the world?

Because that would probably
bring more economic freedom.

Bitcoin is revolutionary
human rights tool.

We're talking about this
tremendous opportunity

for all these people
to be their own bank.

They can actually
control their own value,

their time and energy
that they put into their wages.

They can custody into something
that can't be taken from them.

Cryptocurrency is
the first time you can have

electronic transaction
that is censorship-resistant.

Violence sent
a wave of anger...

In Belarus, we saw
pro-democracy protests.

Police were detaining
thousands of people.

We saw
protesters cut off

from financial services
in their country.

This non-profit
was able to then raise

$3 million in Bitcoin

in order to support people

who'd lost their jobs in
the Belarussian government

or elsewhere

because they were
protesting for democracy.

What happened here has
deeply unsettled Nigerians.

And in Nigeria, we saw
protests against police violence

where people cut off
from the banking system

were able to live and
be supported because of Bitcoin,

despite the corruption
in that country.

There's this balance
between freedom

and state control and certainly,

uh, cryptocurrency in general
and Bitcoin in particular

makes you think about that.

And I-- and I-- and I think
the challenge to regulators

is the bar is moving
pretty far pretty fast.

Because there's a lot of
scepticism in government

about crypto in general.

Do you ever get that
feeling that, you know what,

I just want to tell them
how this actually works?

I want to educate them?

Um, well, it wouldn't surprise
me if that happens

I-- 'cause I do think crypto
is going to keep becoming

more and more
relevant in the world.

It's actually funny,
when I go to DC,

usually all the staffers

that are in the--
kind of the waiting room,

they all come up
and they're like,

"Coinbase, like, I love
Coinbase, I have the app."

And then I go meet
with, like, the senator

or the congressman,
and they're like, "Hmm,

what is this technology about?"

For the first time
in his presidency,

President Trump publicly
commented on crypto

and he doesn't like it.

Bitcoin, I-- I--
just seems like a scam.

Coinbase CEO
Brian Armstrong

tweeted,

Crypto could be even more
dangerous for consumers.

It helped terrorists
and criminals

move money around the world.

Terrorism, financing a criminal
activity of all kinds.

They present real risks through
their use by the criminal

and terrorist organizations

trying to conceal
their illicit activity.

I was a federal
prosecutor for over a decade,

prosecuting organized crime

with the United States
Department of Justice.

I felt a deep sense
of doing what's right

and bringing people who have
broken the law to justice.

The Mongols are in a fierce,

bloody feud
with the Hells Angels.

I prosecuted
a high profile murder

involving the Hells Angels
and the Mongols

motorcycle gangs.

A case involving the Nuestra
Familia prison gang.

I also prosecuted corrupt
federal agents investigating

the Silk Road case.

Late 2012,

one of my bosses
in the Justice Department

came to me and said,

"There's this new technology

that's being used criminally
called Bitcoin.

We need to get to
the bottom of this."

A new website sells
illegal drugs to anyone

who is willing to pay.

Payment was in bitcoin.

I thought,
"This sounds criminal."

And I started looking into it
like, "What was Bitcoin?"

And that was when I had
a really powerful aha-moment.

This is a technology
like the Internet.

It's not inherently good or bad

and it's not a thing
that can be prosecuted.

In fact, we were able
to use crypto technology

to trace criminal activity.

The first time I met Brian,
I actually remember it well.

The first impression

that some of us in
the government had was that

people involved in crypto
didn't believe in laws

or regulation at all.

Brian really stood
in stark contrast to that.

The main transaction
where we see funds

leaving the fraudster account,

this goes actually
to a Coinbase customer.

Our job is to assist
law enforcement

and other agencies around
the world help catch bad guys.

The interesting thing about
crypto is we can see everything.

If we were bank investigators,

it'd be like following every
bill that has left a bank

and gone around the world.

We've got really good tools.

We've got a great relationship
with law enforcement.

Our primary goal is we wanna be
able to protect our customers.

My dad was an air force officer,
we moved around a lot

and I was always kind
of the new kid in class

and, um, I was bullied
a little bit in school.

After I became bigger
than most bullies,

then I was able to kind of help

some of the other kids
that were being bullied.

It gave me some
compassion for people

who have been victimized online.

It's our job to gain their trust

and know that
we're doing the right thing

with this technology.

We are responsible
for safeguarding

the financial well-being
of, at this point,

30 million people
around the world.

You can think about
cybersecurity as chess.

You made a great opening move.

The attacker made their move,
but what's next?

How far ahead are you thinking?

Getting security right

is foundationally critical for
the future of cryptocurrency.

I think it's natural
that it takes a while

for there to be infrastructure
and an ecosystem of tools

built up around
a foundation of new technology.

When electricity was invented,

it took a long time
from the original spark

until we lived
in an electrified world.

I think we're just going
through a similar

arc of development
with cryptocurrency.

The most important technologies
in our lives today

are the ones that we don't
see or think about.

We don't think about

the electrical system
unless it's off.

We don't think about the very
complicated system that we have

of bringing running water
into our homes

unless something happens to it.

And crypto, I think,
is headed in that direction

where yes, it will become
embedded in essential

component of
the infrastructure as essential

as water or plumbing, sewage,

electricity.

A shelter in place order

for some seven million people
in the city by the bay.

They are expected to stay home,
all in hopes, of course,

of stopping the spread
of COVID-19.

Everybody is working as hard
or harder than they have,

and in the face of this change,

feels less productive
than they have.

This may be just me
out of touch or something,

like, I mean, I don't have kids.

So, let's put that
aside for a minute,

people with kids at home.

I mean, I feel like I'm just
as productive at home

in-- in the last week, is...

What-- I mean--

But maybe I just-- I don't--
I just deal with stress well.

Like, I-- these things
don't really faze me.

So, what's the deal?
What am I missing here?

Someone was, like,
literally in an alley today

because their partner
needed their one living room

for the call and they
don't have a bedroom.

I think it's also about
the, like, emotional burden

that people
have adjusting to, like,

what's going on in the world.

I mean, Brian, the way
I would think about it,

if I can just be really
candid is,

I suspect you have
the single best setup

in the whole company, right?

Like, you're a single guy,

you have a high speed thing,
you're well-prepared.

There's nobody in the room.

Like, I-- I-- I have
a good setup. I'm good.

But, like, I think we need
to think of ourselves

as in the vast minority and
that everybody else is facing

a greater tax than we are.

Yeah, totally fair.

Once the COVID stuff is over,

some percentage of the company

is going to want to come
back to the offices.

Other people seem to be
more productive at home,

so we'll have to see
what employees want to do

and where they
feel most productive.

The virus
is continuing to spread.

Growing fears the virus

could tip economies
into recession.

6.6 million people filed for
unemployment over the last week.

And the question now is

when are the jobs
going to come back?

March of 2020,

much to my horror, I was
watching the entire economy

shut down while Wall Street had
the biggest rally in a decade.

The monetary response
of the central banks

was to expand the money supply

and take the interest rates
to zero.

The result of this was a quick

V-shaped recovery
on Wall Street.

While we had a L-shaped
recovery on Main Street.

You know, if you had
a billion dollars invested in

Wall Street assets,

you were going to make
25% this year doing nothing.

And if you worked 25%
harder on Main Street,

you were going to get nothing.

And it struck me that
money was broken, right?

The economy was broken.

The problem
that everybody faces,

every company, every individual,

is, "How do I store my money
without having it dwindle away?"

So, what is this Bitcoin thing?

Went down that rabbit hole,
I started researching

and I came to conclusion
that Bitcoin represents

an instrument of economic
empowerment.

It becomes a solution to
billions of people's problems.

It becomes a solution to
100 million companies' problems,

and it becomes a solution

to every investor
store of value dilemma.

Michael Saylor
says Bitcoin is the safe bet

after moving his
firm's cash to crypto.

His company, MicroStrategy,

has bought more than
a billion dollars' worth.

What's critical for the human
race is to keep upgrading

its technology,

and, uh, Bitcoin represents
a material upgrade

to monetary technology.

Technology is the
highest leverage way that I know

to have an impact on the world.

Other people, they'll tell me,

"You know, I really
like mentoring kids

because they're going
to have a much bigger impact

than some app."
I get that.

But for my skill set or my mind,
the way it works, I'm like,

"I want to go for scale."

We still have lots
of hoops to jump through

with the FCC to make this work,

but everyone
is working basically

from 8:00 a.m. 'til
midnight daily.

Yeah, maybe we should just shut
down the company for a week,

make everybody go
take time off or something.

Whenever you're
trying to go public,

it's always a lot of work.

Fall Fruits is our
internal code name

for our process to go public.

We're having a
lot of discussions

about all the mechanics
of how it all works.

It's like drinking
from the fire hose

and trying to not make
any major mistakes.

So, my initial thought was like,

"Okay, maybe Coinbase
should just go public

in a crypto native way
and issue a crypto token

that is a security token,
meaning it represents

a share in Coinbase," and list
our token on our own exchange.

That's kind of where
the future is going.

Someday it'll all go
through a computer, Brian.

It's like-- it's on its way
to-- to your utopia.

But it's not there yet.

Okay, I guess. Yeah.

So, now we're becoming
a public company.

Do we wanna do a direct listing
versus a traditional IPO?

I think the arguments for-- for
direct listing better align

with the internal-external
reputation we want to have.

You know, in-- in the direct
listing, you're saying

we're going to let
the market set the price.

We don't know what the price is.

Goldman doesn't know that--
these investors don't know.

Let's let the market
set the price.

Anybody who
wants to buy can buy. Um...

Direct listing feels more,
quote-unquote, fair to me.

One of the things
a lot of entrepreneurs

try to figure out is like,
"Do I even want to be

a public company's CEO?"

Because there comes with
its own set of challenges,

but I think it comes
with a lot of positives.

It's a way to have big impact.

I have a very specific
vision in mind

about what I want us
to accomplish.

A lot of it comes
to economic freedom.

That's what the mission
of Coinbase is about.

It was a painful night
in Minneapolis

and a day of difficult questions
about the death of George Floyd.

According to new
reports in a company town hall

an employee
asked Brian Armstrong

a question about
Black Lives Matter

and whether he supports
that movement,

and he declined
to answer that question.

And there was actually a small
employee walkout as a result.

Part of the leadership EQ
is knowing that there's certain

events that basically
you have to say something.

There are people who
are really affected by this

and they're reading
into your actions.

I'm kind of like a believer

in Black Lives Matter,
the movement, right?

But I don't-- I don't want
employees to have an expectation

that a company
should be a mouthpiece

for their own personal views.

So, it was our Q3 All Hands

where we're going over
what's been going on.

And I think Brian
was, like, pretty emotional

while presenting it, too.

When I look back on
the walkout that happened,

I know a lot of you were
disappointed in me as a leader

um, in terms of my lack of
response in that moment or,

um, you know, just not leading
in the way that you wanted.

And I get that and, um, you know

I'm not going to get
everything perfect.

The mission is what
we all came here to do,

it's kind of the thing
that unites us.

You know, it wouldn't be fair
to kind of jump into

another topic or another,
um, cause in the world

that we didn't
all come here to join.

I feel passionate that I want
the workplace to be a refuge

from the division
that's out there in the world.

Some feel like, um, you know,
you have red and blue states.

There need to be
red and blue companies

or something like that and I
reject the extreme positions

on-- on either side there.

I feel like there's an
opportunity to create a place

that's welcoming for all people.

Brian Armstrong
wants his employees to know

that they are in
the cryptocurrency business,

not the business
of social activism.

Armstrong says Coinbase,
quote, "Won't debate causes

or political
candidates internally

and will not engage in things
unrelated to their core

mission," offering about four
to six months of severance

if they decide to quit
because of that new policy.

So, when Brian made that
statement, I was like,

"Oh, he's going to get
crushed for this."

Brian Armstrong
essentially said,

"You either shut up or get out."

That notion is actually
anti-Bitcoin, right?

We talked about the
democratization

of Bitcoin, right?
It wasn't intended to create

a space where
we censor people.

Brian Armstrong's
memo basically said,

"We want to be mission-driven."

Clearly, the company is
having an internal crisis.

People are still really
connecting this back to BLM.

It has nothing to do
with BLM specifically.

It's about an alignment
in our culture

about where we're going
to spend our time and energy.

What they are
really caring about

and they want to know is that

does the exec team
care about them as humans?

And we specifically expect
this empathy from Brian.

I mean, hopefully
we all do that with the--

with the people
on our team doing--

just checking--
how are you doing, right?

That's what it means
to, like, care about somebody.

There's a part of me,
when I hear that,

I'm like, "That's not really
what was happening here.

It's not just that."

People pin this on the spot
about whether we were

going to make
an external commitment

to this political movement.

Leadership is hard,
and I think for Brian,

an innovator who wants
to build, wants to focus,

but also, leaders
have to create spaces

for people to talk about things

that happened
outside of the company.

So, you have to have
all of these considerations

that have nothing to do
with the business,

but it's about the welfare
of your workforce.

I do believe that people deserve
to have their voice heard

and I would never make
that decision that Brian did.

But my company,
we're small shop.

When there's 15 people
in a room

and few of us disagree,
compared to 500, it's different.

But I understand why he did it

because there are
too many variables,

like, in the world to-- to think

that you're going
to be able to have

that kind of open dialogue
in an office setting.

And things are going to be--
No, it's chaos, war.

It's going to be Twitter
in your office.

When I was leaving,
I do think I felt some

anger that his position is
what made me want to leave.

But he did what he needed
to shape his company

the way he saw best fit.

You said that companies
shouldn't get involved

in these issues,
can you explain?

You know, I think every company
should really pick something big

that they want to try
to solve in the world.

And for us,
that's economic freedom.

And it's important
to have everybody aligned

and rowing
in the same direction, um,

to really go tackle something
that big and ambitious.

I think if I were going
to do it again today,

I probably
would have acted sooner

and I would have made it
even more clear.

Part of the reason
it got to the place it did

was that I just--
I noticed that it was an issue,

but I kept trying to sweep
it under the rug

because I didn't have
the words to really

deal with it or the experience.

Really kind
of unfortunate thing.

It was really stressful, uh,
for everybody involved,

but it was actually the-- one
of the most important things

we did to get
clarity as a company,

to all be aligned in moving
towards the mission again.

So, the
cryptocurrency boosters argue

that crypto is the yellow
brick road to a faster,

cheaper and safer financial
system that works for everyone,

not just for the biggest banks.

There is no question that our
financial system needs change,

but I'm not convinced
that crypto is the solution.

Instead of leaving
our financial system

at the whims of giant banks,

crypto puts the system
at the whims of some shadowy,

faceless group of super coders.

Which doesn't sound better.

I'm meeting with as many
people from the Treasury

and senators
and executive branch that I can

to establish relationships
and try to be helpful

as people try to wrap
their head around crypto

and what this industry
is going to be.

I'm just picking up, Katie,
by the way, at the hotel.

Eventually, hopefully,
this can turn into

a clear regulatory framework
for the industry.

-Hey.
-Although he was always wanting

to play by the rules
and all the company

that abides by them,
Brian himself

never had any interest
in going to DC meetings.

I think that's one of the signs
that Brian's really matured

into being a CEO, is he knows
this is his responsibility.

Fred and I were co-founders.

He-- he was always the one who'd
be, like, tromping around DC

and, like, doing all these--
you know, meet with DFS

and I could just focus
on product every day.

Crypto is
a brand new industry

and therefore, it is undefined.

We have to go educate the
government about what crypto is

and what the advantages are.

With innovation,

we're always going to come
against entrenched interests.

35 years ago,
when I started practising

shoe leather politics,

I was working for
National Semiconductor.

Maybe someday
all watches will be made

like the Seiko Digital
Alarm Chronograph.

Up until then,
all watches were mechanical.

The old watch industry

passed a law

forbidding any watch
in the United States

-that had a chip in it.
-Same old story.

We had to repeal that.
We repealed that law.

Being the CEO and founder

of the biggest company
in the industry,

Brian has that responsibility.

I was nervous that maybe

he wouldn't put on
a coat and tie.

In DC, it's about respect.

If you wear a turtleneck,

they're still
going to talk to you,

but it's going to
get them off focus.

They're going to be thinking
about the turtleneck.

Let's keep them on focus and
we can get right down to work.

We've all seen this movie
before. Just like the Internet,

we believe
that the crypto industry

is going to create
millions of jobs

if we can get
regulatory clarification.

One of the biggest
hindrance on this space

has been lack
of regulatory clarity.

The government
has a number of problems

in providing clarity for crypto.

The American financial
regulatory system

is insanely fragmented.

How's it going? Good.

The senator's just wrapping
up his prior meetings.

You've got The OCC,
you have the FDIC,

the Federal Reserve Board,

the Securities and
Exchange Commission,

the Commodity Futures
Trading Commission,

the Treasury Department, FinCEN.
It's crazy.

And then there's also
the state law issues.

And so, that multiplies
your problems

by 53 states and territories
who all have

to have some base of education

in order to figure out
how to apply their laws.

And they are going
to treat this thing

with respect to their
specific policy concerns.

The next meeting,
i-- is Pelosi's office.

Since we're in the Capital,
I'm going to tell her,

"Hey, just have somebody walk
us over at Schumer's office."

There might be some

anarchist type folks
that are like,

"Why would you ever meet
with the government?"

I love freedom
and I want there to be

an open financial
system for the world.

I also am a practical
person and I realize

we live in a country
that has laws

and I'm trying to navigate
a path through that.

We have a lot
of problems in our society

and the only way
you're gonna fix them

is if you change things.

So, changes
is a natural part of life.

And I think you
have to write your rules

and enforce your rules

in a way that recognizes
that change is going to happen.

We've got to embrace innovation.

We've got to let
people try things.

Some things are going to fail

and some things
are going to work.

But as long as we think
that it can be done

in a way that's consistent with
the rules in our marketplace,

we should let it go forward
and let investors decide.

Love the idea that a whole
new generation of people

is thinking about
solutions to problems

that have really plagued us
for a long time.

I couldn't really read him.

Is he just a very calm
and thoughtful and kind man

or was he disinterested?
I couldn't tell.

I think very much the former.

-Really?
-Yeah.

Yeah. He's quite stoic.

Most of the politicians
we've met are so extroverted

they're just-- they can't help

but, like, launch
into all these stories.

He was just like,
"Hmm, thank you for telling me."

And he wouldn't say
anything else.

He said he had
an engineering background,

-didn't he? So, maybe--
-Mm. A pattern.

-there's something to that.
-Yeah.

I am here trying to build trust,

which says a lot to show up
in person and then meet people

that can't really be replicated
in any other way.

And hopefully when they meet me,

they realize I'm trying to do
something good in the world.

Well, if there's
a bill introduced,

then they'd have
to go get educated on it.

Imagine that Electronic
Commerce Act,

so what if there was

-a crypto commerce act?
-Yeah.

I don't know,
I'm just making this up.

But it's such a nebulous
concept,

to get all the different parties
to actually work together

is like pulling teeth.

I think the way
to look at it is it's a game

and the government
makes the rules

and they can keep changing
the rules until they win.

And they have to win

because they have to collect
taxes, fight wars.

There's no way we're going to
live in some libertarian world

where there's no government
thanks to cryptocurrency.

That's just nonsense.

Crypto is just like

any new technology,
like the internet.

Are some bad people
gonna try to use it? Yes.

But the vast majority of people
in the world are good.

So, with appropriate controls
and protections and regulations,

you can mitigate the risk.

But 99% of people
in the world are good,

let's-- let's let them
use the new technology.

That's what propels
the world forward

and creates jobs

and improves human quality
of life and everything.

I don't wear a suit
too often for work.

But I'm going to DC.

When in Rome,
I guess, wear the suit.

Seems to help.

If you let people keep
the upsides of their success,

you get economic growth,
which benefits everybody.

I think it has
all these positive

downstream effects in society,

whether that's health metrics

like infant mortality
or around education

or how well
the environment is protected

or the income
of the poorest people.

Apparently,
it positively correlates

with, like, happiness
and society and less war.

So, I think that's what
cryptocurrency

can actually enable.

Ready to go.

We set a realistic
bar for ourselves.

Anyone who we felt like, yeah,
we had some synergy with,

that we counted as a huge win.

Hi, this is Brian Armstrong
from Coinbase.

I got a note that, uh,

Senator Schumer wanted
to connect real quick.

Because that meant
we can go back to that person

and continue the conversation.

Hello, Senator Schumer.

Yes, thank you for saying that.

I really appreciate
the time we had

and, uh, looking forward
to staying in touch.

Yeah, that was great.

Thank you so much.
Have a good day.

Bye.

All right.

He was real chatty,
wasn't he? Yes.

Well, he's busy.

But he said he wants
to keep-- keep in touch.

He wants to make sure I knew
that his door was open, so...

Whenever you talk to him on the
phone, he just about hangs up.

That's an efficient meeting.

I like-- I like
efficient meetings.

A lot of these people
we're meeting with,

they're very optimistic and
they're going to get it done.

But it's-- I mean,
it could take many, many years.

So, in the meantime,
we just kind of keep building.

... going
bananas over the weekend.

The cryptocurrency topping
61,000 for the first time ever.

What an exciting
three days we've had

for the coin ecosystem.

I'm sure.
I'm sure it has been

for all you Bitcoin followers
and watchers.

Not long after we invested
in Coinbase, Brian emailed me

and he said, "Fred doesn't
own enough of this company.

I want to give him
some of my stock.

He's brought enormous value
to what we're doing,

and, you know,
I just really feel like

he needs to own more
and I'm going to

give him some of my stock.

Could you advise me
how to do it?"

And, you know,
ultimately it happened.

That never happens.

Like... Never does
somebody come and say,

"My co-founder
doesn't own enough.

I'm giving them more."
Like, it's always the opposite.

"I can't believe how much
I gave my co-founder.

They're not
carrying their weight.

I want to get rid of them."

Fred demonstrated
his value to Brian

and Brian matched it
with generosity.

That's a big part
of what binds them together.

Boom! Head shot.

Come on, there's lots of
other people in the field.

-I didn't know there's--
-Shoot other people.

-Sure.

We went through
building this company together,

which was incredibly challenging
and formative experience.

And it was really critical
to have a true friendship.

Your girlfriend posted
a picture of a kitten

that needs fostering and now
my girlfriend wants to adopt it.

How does this work?

The other way around.

-What do you mean?
-Oth-- Turn it upside down.

There are a number
of reasons why we work together

really well that also make
for a really great friendship.

That's something that I really
value and I think transcends

anything that happens
in the business.

Switch.

They built something
amazing together.

Fred remains on the board.
He's Brian's biggest supporter.

I have a very fun job now
on the board at Coinbase.

I just get to lob fruit
and rotten vegetables at Brian

and occasionally pitch in
my crazy crypto futuristic ideas

for the business.

I feel extremely privileged to
have been able to build

something that has gotten as big
as Coinbase has,

and I'm really excited about
doing that all over again

with Paradigm,
a crypto investment company

where we're helping
entrepreneurs

build the next things

that are going
to be world-changing.

So, that's, like,
an $80 million trade.

You can see, like, it routes on,
like, USDT .

I think eventually
all of finance

will be built
on top of this technology.

My sort of hope for Uniswap
is for it to be this

fared, uh, piece of the
financial infrastructure

that is powering this more
equitable financial system.

The word cryptocurrency implies

that crypto is just
about currency,

when actually crypto itself
is about much more.

I feel like this is
basically giving people

Goldman-Sachs-level
trading tools

in an interface
that anybody can use.

We're at the early stages of
a digital financial renaissance,

and I think it's really exciting
to see what this could mean.

Could we make finance
more inclusive?

Could we make finance
much more innovative?

There's definitely
a perception

of crypto as anarchists.

When you actually learn
about the community,

a lot of the people have
very reasonable beliefs

and they usually
kind of relate to

you know, wanting
to make a better world.

As society and civilization
become more complex,

more and more of
the things that we do,

do depend on large groups
of people's ability

to cooperate with each other.

The social layer
of any technology

is something that's, uh,
more important today

than it was 100 years ago.

Again, it's
definitely going to be

even more important
50 years in the future.

If you actually step back

and look at where we are
in literally, like, history,

this is a significant,
significant moment.

If you actually
want to do some shit

and you're not satisfied with
the way things are currently,

crypto is offering this promise

to effect real change for
so many people around the world.

All of us ultimately
want to change the world.

We want to create value
in the world, and we all feel

that this technology
might be the fastest way

of achieving the vision
that we have for the future.

It's history in
the making at the Nasdaq.

Welcome, welcome, welcome.

We have an exciting
morning here at the Nasdaq.

All right. Stand by.
Secondary line.

Crypto trading platform,
Coinbase

finally making its highly
anticipated Wall Street debut.

All right. The auction
will officially start at 10:10.

As it becomes
the first major crypto business

to go public
in the United States.

Eyeshadow, eyeliner
and bells on, ready to go.

Today is certainly an important
milestone for Coinbase,

but it's also an
important milestone

for the crypto industry.

If you want to give
it an early look,

um, and this is gonna-
this'll change

because, like, a lot of stuff
goes into the book

right around the time
the auction starts,

but right now
it's looking for $320.

-Hey, Benny.
-I'm just touching base. Uh,

this is super preliminary,
but it does feel like right

below three hundreds
is the right zip code.

Yeah, it's-- I feel very--
I feel very comfortable.

So, there's Jay Heller
that you're seeing right there.

So, he's actually on the phone
right now with Goldman Sachs,

and he's really giving them
very detailed information

where all the buyers
and all the sellers are

to make sure that we come up
with the right price

before we open up
the stock for trading.

So, the auction will start

and the lights will
turn on at 10:10

and things will change in the
few seconds leading up to that.

But right now,
the auction clears at $310

on 1.6 million shares.

All the buying that we're seeing

as retail right now
that will change.

Institutions don't want
to show their hands

early before the auction starts.

And the goal here is to--
is to open the stock at

at the right price
and as stable price as possible.

Not open it quickly.

Most important trading event
in-- in Coinbase's life.

You're going to get it right,

but I hope you, uh,
all wore comfortable shoes

because this will take a while.

Sounds good.
Thanks for the update.

So, I'm gonna
go back to work.

You should treat everything that
you hear on here as, uh--

as confidential.

All right. Coinbase,
first update, demand's

been building all morning
on the Nasdaq auction.

The auction
will officially start...

I woke up with
fucking jet fuel in my legs.

I went for a run this morning.
It just went crushed.

You're a better man than me,

getting up that early on--
on today.

-Going for a run.
-What did you do?

I-- I just woke up and came to
check in on the--

the livestream. I-- I'm not that
much of an early riser.

Hopefully, it all plays out
according to plan.

-Yep.
-All right.

Hold on. All right.
Well, I guess I'll, uh--

-I'll see you on the Interwebs?
-Yep.

-See you on the livestream.
-All right, bye.

All righty. Bye.

All right, the Coinbase
Nasdaq auction

is going to start
in, uh, two minutes at 10:10...

There's no more
fun day on the trading floor.

Everyone gives me a fist bump
and says, "Game day, Benny."

And it is game day.

-All right. Here we go.

There's the opening bell.

They're doing this countdowns
of, uh, 21 seconds,

symbolizing the 21 million
bitcoin that can be mined.

Right now, we're coming up
with what's called

an indicative price based off
of the supply and the demand.

A million and a half shares
of retail demand

came in in the last,
uh-- in the last second

before the auction started.

And so, the, uh-- the
first look in Coinbase

is $340 on three million shares.

Coinbase first look,
$340 on three million.

That wa-- that was
a bigger uptick in demand

than I would have expected.

-Wow.
- I love Coinbase.

And Cramer's on CNBC,

that'll be some more
upward pressure.

350 on four million.
Tick-tick-tick.

Current look,
350 on 5.2 million.

-Hello.
- I'm gonna work with you

on audio and video.
Is there a way you

or somebody can tilt the
camera down a little bit for me

for framing?

Yeah, let me try to-- let me try
putting it down just a tiny bit.

It's the new world of TV.

-How's that looking?
- Thank you, sir.

Five, four,
three, two, one.

Good morning.
Uh, thank you, everybody,

for joining us on Coinbase's
big public listing day.

Brian, could you tell us
how you came up

with the idea for Coinbase?

Yeah, sure. So, it was 2010,

and I was home for the holidays
at my parents' house,

and I happened to read
the Bitcoin Whitepaper

written by Satoshi Nakamoto.

-All right.

Still building here at Coinbase.

Plan is to open the stock
in the next 30 minutes.

We learned a new piece
of information

about 30 minutes out.

We were in this because
we wanted crypto to work,

we wanted there to be more
economic freedom in the world.

We are getting closer
in Coinbase,

377 on eight million.

So, finish your lunch.

Goldman Sachs,
when they are ready

to give us the green light
to open up the stock,

they will verbally repeat
the size of the order

as well as the indicative price.

People no longer
need to be scared of it

like in the early days.

The-- There's gonna be
a tremendous

amount of
activity here after the open.

Five-minute warning, Coinbase,

Get your flow. And if you're
sitting on the sidelines,

382 on 8.7 million,

Got stock to buy
on balance there

within five minutes,
standby for the open.

Don't go too far here
'cause I guarantee you,

um, we are getting close.

...truly is the new economy.
It has hundreds and thousands

of companies being
created in this space.

The stock will open
within the next two minutes.

I got the two-minute warning.
Two-minute warning.

How can we really leverage this
opportunity to create more jobs,

more economic growth for people

in every country in the world
that embraces this?

This is like the moment
at the wedding.

Speak now
or forever hold your peace.

All right. Here we go.
All right. Hi, guys.

Hey, man.

All right. I see the stock,
$381 on 8.83 million shares.

That is confirmed.
That is what I say.

Open the stock.

Opening at 381. Standby.

All right! There's nothing
cryptic about this!

The first public block of stock
in the blockchain,

the Coinbase Genesis trade
is 8.8 million shares at $381.

That's an of nearly

$3.5 billion,

the largest opening trade
in Nasdaq history.

I think the second largest trade
in exchange history.

-Let's go, Coinbase!

-We're opening at $381.

All right, ladies and gentlemen,

we officially opened up
the stock

at $381 on 8.8 million shares.

It is a historic moment
for cryptocurrency.

The IPO is really
the start of the next phase

of adoption and the future
of the digital economy.

Welcome to the Nasdaq family.

And I--I
should mention, uh, we are live

and I can prove that we're live,

which is that, uh, Coinbase
stock is now listed and trading.

Uh, so, uh, congratulations.

Oh, man, it's kind of--

it's kind of
an overwhelming, uh, moment.

There's so many things
happening, so many emotions.

And I mean-- Uh, the biggest
thing I just want to say

is that this is a--
entirely a group effort.

Like, the-- the customers that
helped us get here,

all the employees.

It's a really rare group
of people

who saw this trend early,

made a bet on it, came together

and I think it helped us
get to where we are today.

This is not the end. This is the
beginning. We all have a lot...

If you think about
the way the Internet changed

from, like, 95 to 2005,

I mean, from going--
from getting your AOL CD in

the-- in the-- in the post mail

to having an iPhone
in your pocket,

I mean, that's what
we're about to go through.

It's not
a once-in-a-decade thing.

It's a once-in-the-history-
of-the-human race thing.

I think that we'll see some of
the promise, the early promise

of this industry
really blossoming

into something that affects
people's daily lives,

in-- in-- in what I hope
is a positive way.

Cryptography has created

something very exciting
to highlight its true power,

and now it's gifted
us the opportunity

to do something, to make
the world a better place,

and this is the time to do it.

How's it going?

Um, I'm doing all right.

I slept a little bit last night.
Not much the night before.

On the day Coinbase went public,

I briefly stepped out
to give my dad a call.

I feel like my
conversations with my dad

are pretty consistent.

Yeah. Yeah, that's funny.

He definitely makes sure
that I remain grounded

and I very much
appreciate that about him.

We had been talking about this
for so long. I knew this

was going
to happen at some point.

It was a bit like
dropping your child off

on the first day of college.

You know if things go right,
there's a high probability

four years later
they're going to graduate.

Okay. Love you.

When I talked to Fred,
I had a-- several different

kind of feelings
running through my body. Um--

Um--

I think the, um...

... one feeling that, um...

I got really close to was...

was, um...

wish-- wishing my dad
could have seen it.

Um--

I was proud of Fred
before Coinbase,

and I look forward to
continuing to be proud of him.

Nobody knows for sure

how this technology revolution
is going to turn out.

Yeah, I don't know
that I understand it.

I really don't. But I do trust

-that Brian understands.

We're really proud
of what he has done,

not so much as a company,
which the company is amazing.

I mean, we kept
watching it and saying--

you know,
but it's just-- He's still

the kind, generous,
thoughtful person

that we grew up with, too.

So, we're proud of him
for both of those things.

I've never
really been good

at celebrating things.

I just like building things.
I'm always thinking like,

"All right, what's next?
What's next? What's next?

On IPO day,
I had a mix of emotions.

All right! There's
nothing cryptic about this!

As everyone
was focusing on the valuation

and the financial outcome,

I sent both Brian
and Fred a text.

Largest opening trade
in Nasdaq history...

And that text simply said,
"While everybody's celebrating,

the thing that I'm most proud of

is that you two
are still best friends."

- Let's go, Coinbase!

They're all clapping
on the trading--

-the trading floor.
-Holy shit.

You worked on the trading
floor--

That-- I, like,
literally sat right there.

There isn't a sliver
of light between them

that people can pierce to say

those two aren't as close
in reality as they appear to be.

And I think it is a fundamental
part of the success of Coinbase

and for them individually.

A Jackalope
is a fictional character, right?

What's a jackalope?

It's an antelope
and a jackrabbit.

Why do you never
see lizard eggs?

I assume they must lay eggs.
Right?

I wonder
what the frontiersmen thought

when they saw this.
Think, like,

"Oh, this is really
beautiful."

They're just, like, super on
task. "Gotta build this down."

-This is super cool.
-Wow.

It's machinery
to sift the gold out.

It's probably, like, pretty
advanced technology that, um...

Yup.

I wonder why they
call it the Wall Street Mill.

They left Wall Street
due to other opportunities,

-just like you.

I feel like we always fall
into a natural rhythm

where on hikes you go out first.

It just feels more natural for
some reason, I don't know why.

-Me walking first?
-Yeah, yeah.

I feel like that's--

There's probably a deeper
meaning in that thought.

Yeah.

Do you think you would've
made a good frontiersman?

-Mm... Questionable.