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[Gwen] The dreamstarts like this.
4
00:00:28,294 --> 00:00:31,530
I see myself getting
out of the water
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00:00:39,105 --> 00:00:42,908
and I see somebody,
I can't see it very clearly,
6
00:00:42,942 --> 00:00:45,778
but I see a person
from the back.
7
00:00:49,449 --> 00:00:50,849
I follow him.
8
00:00:57,791 --> 00:01:00,292
And then I see a lot of people
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00:01:00,326 --> 00:01:01,860
standing
in the communal showers.
10
00:01:02,562 --> 00:01:03,862
Nobody is looking at me.
11
00:01:11,071 --> 00:01:16,041
There's a little hallway
with four bathroom stalls.
12
00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:19,578
After those four
regular bathroom doors,
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00:01:19,612 --> 00:01:20,779
there's a big door.
14
00:01:28,688 --> 00:01:31,256
From the moment
I opened the door,
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00:01:31,291 --> 00:01:33,425
it's like things
moved really quickly.
16
00:01:34,694 --> 00:01:35,861
[water running]
17
00:01:42,669 --> 00:01:45,270
At that moment,
I see just a lot of blood.
18
00:01:47,107 --> 00:01:48,941
It's everywhere and I panicked.
19
00:01:58,618 --> 00:02:01,820
How can something
that wasn't scary at the time
20
00:02:01,855 --> 00:02:02,988
be so scary later?
21
00:02:03,022 --> 00:02:06,125
Like, how can I wake up
at night now being terrified,
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00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:07,659
even though back then
it was like,
23
00:02:07,694 --> 00:02:10,095
"All right, let's go into the
shower. Let's just do this."
24
00:02:25,678 --> 00:02:28,113
My mom
always called me "Waterrat."
25
00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:31,416
Literally, It'd be a water rat.
26
00:02:31,451 --> 00:02:33,118
That's somebody
who just always wants
27
00:02:33,153 --> 00:02:34,019
to be in the water.
28
00:02:35,788 --> 00:02:38,423
I always loved swimming,
I was always in the water.
29
00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:47,232
I grew up in a small town
in Southern Holland,
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00:02:47,267 --> 00:02:49,768
in what I would call
a very normal family.
31
00:02:49,802 --> 00:02:52,237
I had loving parents,
I had an older brother.
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00:02:54,674 --> 00:02:56,642
One of my favorite memories
growing up
33
00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:58,777
was getting together for Easter
34
00:02:58,811 --> 00:03:00,045
and it'd be the whole family
35
00:03:00,079 --> 00:03:01,813
and we would do
this Eastern egg hunt
36
00:03:01,848 --> 00:03:03,949
and I would always try
to beat my cousins,
37
00:03:03,983 --> 00:03:06,985
usually not successfully
cause I was the smallest.
38
00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,520
I was the youngest one
in the family.
39
00:03:13,726 --> 00:03:15,994
My childhood was loving,
it was happy.
40
00:03:16,029 --> 00:03:17,062
It was comfortable.
41
00:03:29,342 --> 00:03:30,175
Yeah.
42
00:04:25,398 --> 00:04:27,065
The first memory I have,
43
00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:29,101
we were biking to a swim camp.
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00:04:30,536 --> 00:04:33,438
I would bike
and he would bike next to me,
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00:04:33,473 --> 00:04:35,374
and it was very clear
that his focus
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00:04:35,408 --> 00:04:36,908
was entirely on me.
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00:04:37,877 --> 00:04:39,778
And that felt really nice.
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00:04:39,812 --> 00:04:41,280
[alarm goes off]
49
00:04:46,653 --> 00:04:49,087
He was an adult
that was swimming on my team,
50
00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:51,890
but would also coach us
when the head couch was out.
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00:04:53,826 --> 00:04:56,728
"And I just thought, " Wow,
why is this big swimmer,
52
00:04:56,763 --> 00:04:59,631
this cool guy, that everybody
has respect for...
53
00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:01,400
why does he put so much emphasis
54
00:05:01,434 --> 00:05:02,567
on getting to know me?
55
00:05:02,602 --> 00:05:04,703
"And why is he asking me
all these questions?"
56
00:05:05,705 --> 00:05:08,073
I just felt
like he really cared,
57
00:05:08,107 --> 00:05:09,675
and he became my best friend.
58
00:05:26,726 --> 00:05:28,627
There were moments
where I was afraid of him,
59
00:05:28,661 --> 00:05:30,128
but most of the time I wasn't
60
00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:32,831
and that just feels off.
That feels weird.
61
00:05:32,865 --> 00:05:35,100
It feels like if somebody
hurts you,
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00:05:35,134 --> 00:05:36,835
you should be afraid of them
63
00:05:36,869 --> 00:05:39,438
and you should be angry
at them afterward.
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00:05:39,472 --> 00:05:42,808
So, when you don't feel anger
and you don't feel...
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00:05:44,711 --> 00:05:47,145
like you were afraid of them
66
00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:49,948
then it must not be
something that was wrong.
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00:05:49,982 --> 00:05:52,484
It's not logical.
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00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:18,944
[starts crying]
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00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:35,227
My boyfriend, actually, he said,
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00:06:35,261 --> 00:06:37,162
"I think you need
to not run away from it
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00:06:37,196 --> 00:06:39,264
and really try to face it."
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00:06:41,534 --> 00:06:45,704
Actually, what a lot of people
don't realize is how much traumatic is
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00:06:45,738 --> 00:06:48,907
with something
that happens so long ago.
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00:06:48,941 --> 00:06:50,475
Well, even 18 years later,
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00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:53,812
almost every week that
something happens that, like,
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00:06:53,846 --> 00:06:58,116
triggers some, like,
tears or even panics.
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00:07:02,522 --> 00:07:06,525
[Gwen] I know I need help.So I started calling experts.
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00:07:07,627 --> 00:07:09,561
[phone rings]
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00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:13,131
Thank you for making the time
to chat. Hey, how are you?
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00:07:13,166 --> 00:07:15,400
He was both an older teammate
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00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:18,069
and then he would swap in
for the coach.
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00:07:18,104 --> 00:07:21,706
So he would get me
gifts and cards and letters,
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00:07:21,741 --> 00:07:25,076
and he would say,
"Gosh, you... I know you're 11,
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00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:29,247
but you're actually 18
in the way that you behave."
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00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:32,851
And after hearing my story,
they all said the same thing.
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00:07:33,419 --> 00:07:34,786
It's classic grooming.
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00:07:34,821 --> 00:07:36,988
I started thinking,
"What's this grooming thing?"
88
00:07:37,023 --> 00:07:39,524
I feel like it's something that
I really need to understand.
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00:07:49,936 --> 00:07:52,437
[Oprah] Most kids are molested
by people that they trust.
90
00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:55,373
Either a family member
or a close friend.
91
00:07:55,408 --> 00:07:57,542
That is how it happens,
92
00:07:57,577 --> 00:08:00,512
and the grooming
is what makes it possible.
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00:08:00,546 --> 00:08:01,446
I liked him
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00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:02,881
and I would tell him
I liked him,
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00:08:02,915 --> 00:08:04,082
and I liked the attention.
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00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:07,853
He makes the child feel
that the child is a part of it.
97
00:08:07,887 --> 00:08:09,654
[Gwen] I thoughtthat because I liked him
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00:08:09,689 --> 00:08:11,256
it wasn't really abuse.
99
00:08:11,991 --> 00:08:13,291
But maybe it was.
100
00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:16,862
Confusion is actually
the biggest thing
101
00:08:16,896 --> 00:08:19,598
that keeps people powerless.
102
00:08:25,738 --> 00:08:27,973
After learning about grooming,
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00:08:28,007 --> 00:08:32,310
I was, first of all,
really angry.
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00:08:32,345 --> 00:08:34,946
[Gwen] Why had I never heardfrom this before?
105
00:08:34,981 --> 00:08:36,882
Why don't we all know
about this?
106
00:08:38,417 --> 00:08:41,353
So I decided that I wanted
to make a film.
107
00:08:43,155 --> 00:08:45,790
This is what I need to do,
and this is a story
108
00:08:45,825 --> 00:08:48,159
that I can tell
because I went through it.
109
00:09:19,292 --> 00:09:21,126
[man] Okay, let me know
when you're good.
110
00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:22,427
Hey, Barbi.
111
00:09:24,297 --> 00:09:25,463
[man] And it's all yours.
112
00:09:25,498 --> 00:09:28,266
What happened when you learned
what grooming was?
113
00:09:28,301 --> 00:09:30,035
[Barbi]
When I learned about grooming,
114
00:09:30,069 --> 00:09:33,038
I started really reflecting back
115
00:09:33,072 --> 00:09:34,406
and remembering,
116
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,242
"wow, like, all these incidents
117
00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:40,378
that I thought
were joyful and fun, he...
118
00:09:40,413 --> 00:09:42,447
he was grooming me.
119
00:09:42,481 --> 00:09:45,784
He was setting me up
for this abuse.
120
00:09:48,554 --> 00:09:49,955
I think he targeted me
121
00:09:49,989 --> 00:09:54,693
because he could spot
my desire to please.
122
00:09:54,727 --> 00:09:57,529
It was hard for me
to express myself
123
00:09:57,563 --> 00:10:00,231
and I never really felt
like I fit in.
124
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:01,933
I was really quiet.
125
00:10:01,968 --> 00:10:04,669
I really kept to myself.
126
00:10:04,704 --> 00:10:07,505
I think I was always quiet
and sort of reserved,
127
00:10:07,540 --> 00:10:11,376
and always had, like, a book
that I would be reading.
128
00:10:11,410 --> 00:10:13,011
My parents fought constantly
129
00:10:13,045 --> 00:10:15,080
about finances
and lack of money.
130
00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:19,150
That constant emotional
upheaval within the house
131
00:10:19,986 --> 00:10:23,121
made me feel very vulnerable.
132
00:10:23,155 --> 00:10:26,391
What I started to realize
is that what happened to me
133
00:10:26,425 --> 00:10:28,793
wasn't the exemption,
it was the rule.
134
00:10:41,474 --> 00:10:44,609
[Andy] I would suggest youconsider proxy clarification
135
00:10:44,644 --> 00:10:47,379
and what happens
is you take the victim,
136
00:10:47,413 --> 00:10:51,583
have an offender match them
who's really in recovery
137
00:10:51,617 --> 00:10:54,319
and have them
just have a conversation.
138
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,795
There's a woman who called
me one day after I did a workshop
139
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:05,130
and she said,
140
00:11:05,164 --> 00:11:07,966
"Could you hook me up with
one of these proxy clarifications?"
141
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,933
We did it,
142
00:11:08,968 --> 00:11:11,936
and 'til she died,
I got a card every year
143
00:11:11,971 --> 00:11:13,772
and the essence
of what she said was,
144
00:11:13,806 --> 00:11:15,573
"I felt responsibility,
145
00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:17,609
like, almost
a physical sensation of it
146
00:11:17,643 --> 00:11:18,977
lifting from me,
147
00:11:19,011 --> 00:11:20,945
and I finally felt
free at last."
148
00:12:01,721 --> 00:12:03,421
[man] Up and here you go.
149
00:12:04,623 --> 00:12:06,157
Okay.
150
00:12:06,192 --> 00:12:08,760
This is file 1.
Mark, cameras A and B.
151
00:12:10,463 --> 00:12:12,964
Okay, give me
about 30 seconds in here.
152
00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,336
[Gwen] Okay, it's good? Awesome.
153
00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:20,305
What are the steps
that you go through
154
00:12:20,339 --> 00:12:23,241
when you would groom a child?
155
00:12:23,275 --> 00:12:25,677
[Dennis] Well, I was
very confident in my grooming.
156
00:12:25,711 --> 00:12:26,978
I was very confident
157
00:12:27,012 --> 00:12:28,847
that I could make a kid like me.
158
00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:42,360
First of all, you have
to pick the right child.
159
00:12:43,562 --> 00:12:46,030
You know, the one you
feel most comfortable with.
160
00:12:46,065 --> 00:12:48,666
The one that you heard things
about him in the family,
161
00:12:48,701 --> 00:12:50,301
that's may be having
a hard time.
162
00:12:50,336 --> 00:12:53,071
"Who do I think I could train?"
163
00:12:53,105 --> 00:12:54,372
I was very trusting.
164
00:12:54,406 --> 00:12:56,040
- Insolated.
- Alone.
165
00:12:56,075 --> 00:12:57,008
Quiet.
166
00:12:57,042 --> 00:12:58,109
On my own a little bit.
167
00:13:01,347 --> 00:13:04,149
[Gwen] I wasan insecure little girl.
168
00:13:04,183 --> 00:13:06,718
My body language probably
showed up a little bit.
169
00:13:06,752 --> 00:13:09,788
I was really struggling
with who I was,
170
00:13:09,822 --> 00:13:12,724
why were my friends
not accepting me.
171
00:13:12,758 --> 00:13:15,393
I was really looking
for somebody
172
00:13:15,427 --> 00:13:16,528
that cared for me.
173
00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:21,900
[Jim] Can you spotthe sex offender?
174
00:13:21,934 --> 00:13:25,570
Is it Mr. Businessman here
or is it Deathroll tall guy?
175
00:13:25,604 --> 00:13:28,206
The answer is yes, no,
both, maybe, I don't know.
176
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,209
So, how does a sex offender
groom a victim?
177
00:13:31,243 --> 00:13:33,278
Adolescent female victims
tell us,
178
00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:35,647
"He was my best friend."
179
00:13:35,681 --> 00:13:38,750
"I'm going to do things
and buy things for you."
180
00:13:38,784 --> 00:13:40,385
"I'm going to send you cards,
181
00:13:40,419 --> 00:13:43,655
I'm going to give you
little bracelets
182
00:13:43,689 --> 00:13:45,557
or I'm going to send you
flowers.
183
00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:47,158
I'm going to give you things."
184
00:13:47,193 --> 00:13:49,127
[Gwen] As you were talking,I was remembering
185
00:13:49,161 --> 00:13:51,329
the letters and the cards
that he would give me,
186
00:13:51,363 --> 00:13:53,865
and it almost felt like
you were telling my story.
187
00:13:53,933 --> 00:13:57,068
Guess I always viewed him
as somebody who just made
188
00:13:57,102 --> 00:13:58,069
a little misstep
189
00:13:58,103 --> 00:14:00,772
and he just happened
to fall in love with me
190
00:14:00,806 --> 00:14:02,173
at the wrong time.
191
00:14:02,208 --> 00:14:05,476
[Jim] If the offender
has done their job grooming,
192
00:14:05,511 --> 00:14:07,979
it's going to feel like,
"I was special to him."
193
00:14:08,013 --> 00:14:10,815
You know, you are one of many
who are special to him.
194
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,517
- That's the issue.
- Do you think that?
195
00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:14,953
From what I know about your
case, I can almost assure you
196
00:14:14,987 --> 00:14:16,721
there were other victims
out there.
197
00:14:16,755 --> 00:14:18,823
Absolutely other victims.
198
00:14:18,858 --> 00:14:20,925
His grooming process
was very smooth.
199
00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:22,660
Very smooth.
200
00:14:23,395 --> 00:14:25,396
You mentioned you have letters,
201
00:14:25,431 --> 00:14:29,000
I think that if we look
at those letters,
202
00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:30,835
that we're going to see
that that process
203
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:32,537
is very well done.
204
00:14:32,571 --> 00:14:35,874
You don't get to be
that good at it by accident.
205
00:14:35,908 --> 00:14:38,476
[Jim] You get to be that good
at it through practice.
206
00:14:38,510 --> 00:14:41,679
I've always firmly believe
it was just me.
207
00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:43,882
That he would never do this
to someone else,
208
00:14:43,916 --> 00:14:45,516
and I've never really thought
209
00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:47,719
about there being other victims.
210
00:14:47,753 --> 00:14:49,487
[Gwen] And it changes the story.
211
00:14:49,521 --> 00:14:52,924
So, I'm considering
potentially going to Holland
212
00:14:54,026 --> 00:14:57,362
to talk to my family
and maybe talk to the police.
213
00:14:57,396 --> 00:14:58,630
Your family knows nothing?
214
00:14:58,664 --> 00:15:00,832
[Gwen] When I was starting
to get all these dreams,
215
00:15:00,866 --> 00:15:02,934
and I remembered
what had happened,
216
00:15:02,968 --> 00:15:04,102
I actually told them.
217
00:15:04,136 --> 00:15:05,503
[Jim] And how long ago was that?
218
00:15:05,537 --> 00:15:06,905
That's when I was about 17.
219
00:15:06,939 --> 00:15:08,339
- [Jim] Okay.
- So, long time ago.
220
00:15:08,374 --> 00:15:10,608
- [Jim] So, where did that happened?
- The "where."
221
00:15:10,643 --> 00:15:12,210
So we had one conversation
at night,
222
00:15:12,244 --> 00:15:14,412
and I remember my dad
running out on the street
223
00:15:14,446 --> 00:15:17,181
with a baseball bat and he was
like, "I'm going to kill him."
224
00:15:17,216 --> 00:15:19,717
And, like, so, so, so angry.
225
00:15:19,752 --> 00:15:21,619
And then we never
talked about it again.
226
00:15:21,654 --> 00:15:24,188
The location
while thinking about this
227
00:15:24,223 --> 00:15:26,824
is going to be
a heck of a trigger.
228
00:15:28,727 --> 00:15:32,063
Expect to be affected a lot.
229
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:46,277
[Gwen] I'm going to Holland,actually, in two days.
230
00:15:46,312 --> 00:15:48,346
It makes me very nervous,
cause on the one hand,
231
00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:51,215
I feel a lot of conviction
and I feel a lot of power
232
00:15:51,250 --> 00:15:53,418
and, like, I need to go
do this and I need to,
233
00:15:53,452 --> 00:15:56,521
you know, make sure that
there's no other people and...
234
00:15:56,555 --> 00:15:58,389
But then there's
other days when I think,
235
00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:00,792
"But I don't want
to mess up his life.
236
00:16:00,826 --> 00:16:01,926
What if he's married?"
237
00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:04,862
I've got no idea where he is.
I don't know anything
238
00:16:04,897 --> 00:16:06,397
about what has happened to him.
239
00:16:12,938 --> 00:16:15,907
I have not said his name
in 20 years.
240
00:16:15,941 --> 00:16:19,510
I've never been able
to look him up,
241
00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:20,678
I've never... I don't know.
242
00:16:20,713 --> 00:16:23,781
It's like a physical block.
243
00:16:23,816 --> 00:16:27,051
But I need to cause I do want
to know before I go.
244
00:16:27,119 --> 00:16:29,354
I want to have
a little bit of information.
245
00:16:29,388 --> 00:16:33,024
I'm really afraid
to see a picture.
246
00:16:33,058 --> 00:16:35,994
I don't... I really don't want
to see his face.
247
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,466
I really don't know
if I want to.
248
00:16:46,338 --> 00:16:47,505
[sighs]
249
00:16:50,109 --> 00:16:52,210
I can't even...
I don't want to see it.
250
00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:53,711
[sighs]
251
00:16:58,617 --> 00:16:59,484
[sighs]
252
00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:11,696
He showed up.
253
00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:31,049
[starts crying harder]
254
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:36,554
It makes you want to throw up.
255
00:17:39,591 --> 00:17:42,226
I don't know. I guess I
started questioning it again
256
00:17:42,261 --> 00:17:45,430
and start thinking,
"was it just me? Was it..."
257
00:17:47,633 --> 00:17:49,200
"Did you not do anything wrong?"
258
00:17:52,905 --> 00:17:55,239
Yeah, I just want to make sure
it doesn't happen again
259
00:17:56,175 --> 00:17:57,241
to other people.
260
00:17:59,678 --> 00:18:01,312
[Harriet] You have to organize
261
00:18:02,514 --> 00:18:06,084
and accept the disorganization
about what you feel.
262
00:18:06,852 --> 00:18:08,619
In that case, it's a step.
263
00:18:09,121 --> 00:18:10,088
It's progress.
264
00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:19,263
[Gwen] After 20 years,the memories of my childhood
265
00:18:19,298 --> 00:18:21,599
are just messy and blurry
and incomplete.
266
00:18:24,503 --> 00:18:26,637
I want to have a better
picture of what happened.
267
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,942
Mostly I'm going to go to
Holland to speak with my family
268
00:18:30,976 --> 00:18:33,311
after so many years of silence.
269
00:18:33,345 --> 00:18:34,545
This is the one thing
270
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:37,415
that feels like it's
still standing in between us.
271
00:18:41,854 --> 00:18:44,255
I am going to look
for the letters.
272
00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:47,191
They should all be
in this little cabinet.
273
00:18:49,194 --> 00:18:51,162
But is possible
my parents found them
274
00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:52,830
at some point
and threw them out.
275
00:19:01,006 --> 00:19:04,709
I want to report publicly
if I can do it.
276
00:19:04,743 --> 00:19:06,878
It's still something
that I'm not sure of.
277
00:19:06,912 --> 00:19:09,847
I think it depends
on the conversations
278
00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:10,781
I'm going to have.
279
00:19:10,816 --> 00:19:12,350
It's going to depend
on the letters,
280
00:19:12,384 --> 00:19:14,352
it's going to depend
on how I feel in the moment.
281
00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:49,193
[Asia] He alsogroomed my family.
282
00:23:49,227 --> 00:23:52,196
Like, for example, he asked
my dad for piano lessons.
283
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:55,499
He had a sister
into our dance club.
284
00:23:55,534 --> 00:23:57,568
And I asked my mom
recently, I was like,
285
00:23:57,602 --> 00:23:59,804
"Why did you
let me go with him?"
286
00:23:59,838 --> 00:24:00,905
Like, "He was a man."
287
00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:03,274
Like, "Didn't you think
it was weird that some man
288
00:24:03,308 --> 00:24:05,443
wanted to spend time
with your 5-year-old?"
289
00:24:05,477 --> 00:24:07,778
And she was like,
"No, you wanted to go,"
290
00:24:07,813 --> 00:24:08,913
and you were so happy.
291
00:24:08,947 --> 00:24:11,615
"You know, I didn't think
anything was going on."
292
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:14,385
Like, he didn't set off
that vibe.
293
00:24:14,419 --> 00:24:17,321
He didn't set off
on a pedophile vibe.
294
00:24:17,355 --> 00:24:20,791
Always having priests
come to our home
295
00:24:20,826 --> 00:24:23,961
was like Jesus Christ himself
was in our house.
296
00:24:23,995 --> 00:24:28,399
[Keith] He infiltrated our
family structure in such a way.
297
00:24:28,433 --> 00:24:30,901
I mean, my parents
went to confession to him.
298
00:24:30,936 --> 00:24:32,803
He knew
what all their sins were.
299
00:25:02,701 --> 00:25:04,602
[Gwen] This is May, '97.
300
00:25:04,636 --> 00:25:07,471
So that's right about
when he first saw me.
301
00:25:16,915 --> 00:25:19,049
This was my group,
I mean, my class,
302
00:25:19,084 --> 00:25:20,518
they were kind of bullying me,
303
00:25:20,552 --> 00:25:22,720
and I was really unhappy
in this period.
304
00:25:22,754 --> 00:25:27,057
They always called me,
like, "Sheep. Dork."
305
00:25:27,092 --> 00:25:30,194
But the last day of school,
we had like a little party
306
00:25:30,228 --> 00:25:33,697
and there was a song popular
at the time
307
00:25:33,732 --> 00:25:36,267
that was called, "Girl,
you are as ugly as the night,"
308
00:25:36,301 --> 00:25:37,935
and they started
playing that song
309
00:25:37,969 --> 00:25:39,336
and then they all...
310
00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:41,472
They've thought about it,
clearly.
311
00:25:41,506 --> 00:25:43,474
Cause they all,
like, went to the back
312
00:25:43,508 --> 00:25:44,708
and kind of, like, moved,
313
00:25:44,743 --> 00:25:46,844
so I would be the only one
in the middle of the room
314
00:25:46,878 --> 00:25:49,146
and then everybody would be
in a circle around me
315
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:51,315
and started pointing
and singing the song.
316
00:25:51,349 --> 00:25:54,785
And it was so mean,
it's like so...
317
00:25:54,819 --> 00:25:56,654
I don't know.
I'll never forget that moment.
318
00:26:20,545 --> 00:26:21,378
Yeah.
319
00:26:24,783 --> 00:26:25,616
Yeah.
320
00:28:44,456 --> 00:28:46,023
So I'm going to go upstairs
321
00:28:46,057 --> 00:28:49,159
and see if the letters
that he kind of wrote me
322
00:28:49,194 --> 00:28:50,794
like 20 years ago are upstairs.
323
00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:53,063
And I don't know
if they're there,
324
00:28:53,098 --> 00:28:54,832
and I don't know
what's going to be in them
325
00:28:54,866 --> 00:28:55,866
if they're there and...
326
00:28:57,435 --> 00:29:01,105
I'm actually nervous to see
if there's stuff in there
327
00:29:01,139 --> 00:29:02,272
that I don't remember
328
00:29:02,307 --> 00:29:04,308
and I think there's
pictures there too.
329
00:29:10,148 --> 00:29:12,349
So they're in that
bottom drawer, I think.
330
00:29:20,492 --> 00:29:22,126
This one's empty.
That's bad news.
331
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,194
I'm afraid that they
threw them out.
332
00:29:28,566 --> 00:29:30,100
Oh, my God, it's all empty.
333
00:29:45,683 --> 00:29:47,451
They cleaned it out,
it's all gone.
334
00:29:59,764 --> 00:30:00,597
[sighs]
335
00:30:27,959 --> 00:30:29,259
Can I take a moment?
336
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:41,405
[starts crying]
337
00:30:55,753 --> 00:30:57,421
I don't know if I want
to read them now.
338
00:31:15,807 --> 00:31:17,708
I'm worried
that it's going to confuse me.
339
00:31:17,742 --> 00:31:19,142
It's going to confuse me.
340
00:31:23,481 --> 00:31:26,149
I'm worried that it's going
to say all these nice things
341
00:31:26,184 --> 00:31:27,017
and then...
342
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:34,324
and I'm going
to question it again.
343
00:31:41,966 --> 00:31:43,467
[exhales]
344
00:31:51,409 --> 00:31:53,210
This one's really short. But...
345
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:59,783
[man voice] "Dear Gwen,
346
00:31:59,817 --> 00:32:02,352
I've known you
for two and a half years now.
347
00:32:02,387 --> 00:32:03,854
You know that most of the time
348
00:32:03,888 --> 00:32:05,923
I've had very special
feelings for you.
349
00:32:06,958 --> 00:32:09,259
That I would do
anything for you.
350
00:32:09,294 --> 00:32:11,194
That you can come to me
with anything,
351
00:32:11,229 --> 00:32:13,730
no matter how big
or small the problem,
352
00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:15,732
I want to solve
everything for you.
353
00:32:16,868 --> 00:32:19,403
Gwenny,
look at your beautiful eyes,
354
00:32:19,437 --> 00:32:21,571
your sweet, beautiful,
innocent face.
355
00:32:22,907 --> 00:32:25,175
Put your soft arms around me.
356
00:32:25,209 --> 00:32:26,877
Surrender
to what you're feeling.
357
00:32:27,745 --> 00:32:29,346
It wasn't just that little ass
358
00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:31,548
that caused my little spark.
359
00:32:31,582 --> 00:32:35,385
Also that playful wrestling
made my desire grow.
360
00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:38,455
"The thought of you
makes my whole body tremble."
361
00:32:38,489 --> 00:32:40,757
It's so gross. It's so gross!
362
00:32:42,593 --> 00:32:44,861
[man voice] "I just wantto wake up next to you"
363
00:32:44,896 --> 00:32:46,463
in a single bed
on Sunday morning.
364
00:32:47,065 --> 00:32:48,532
I just want to take off
365
00:32:48,566 --> 00:32:50,701
"your blue lingerie
with my teeth."
366
00:32:53,471 --> 00:32:55,672
[Gwen] I remember likingwhat was in them,
367
00:32:55,707 --> 00:32:59,209
now I'm disgusted about them.
But I remember thinking,
368
00:32:59,243 --> 00:33:01,945
"It's so great all these
things that he's talking about."
369
00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:05,515
Like, "You're so beautiful,
you're so..."
370
00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:08,285
"When you do this with your
mouth, you're so bla, bla, bla."
371
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:09,920
"The way you do this,
you look so cute.
372
00:33:09,954 --> 00:33:11,588
You look so innocent.
You look so..."
373
00:33:11,622 --> 00:33:13,623
It's disgusting.
374
00:33:15,026 --> 00:33:17,027
Back then, I would read them,
and I would think,
375
00:33:17,061 --> 00:33:19,563
"Oh, somebody likes me."
You know?
376
00:33:24,135 --> 00:33:26,336
First of all, he would send me
postcards like this.
377
00:33:27,605 --> 00:33:30,107
And he's an idiot. He clearly
didn't know what he was doing.
378
00:33:30,141 --> 00:33:34,144
You wouldn't write
all these stuff on paper
379
00:33:34,178 --> 00:33:35,245
with dates on them
380
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:36,947
if you knew what the hell
you were doing.
381
00:33:36,981 --> 00:33:39,327
I don't think he knew that he
was doing something wrong.
382
00:33:39,351 --> 00:33:41,351
He doesn't. He still doesn't.
383
00:33:42,620 --> 00:33:44,454
And that makes me sad.
384
00:33:44,489 --> 00:33:48,058
It's like, it's just
a sad soul that, like,
385
00:33:49,627 --> 00:33:51,294
fell in love with an 11-year-old
386
00:33:51,329 --> 00:33:53,764
and now I'm going ruin
his life for it.
387
00:33:53,798 --> 00:33:55,832
That doesn't feel right,
you know?
388
00:34:18,589 --> 00:34:20,690
[Dennis] It starts from
the moment they get there.
389
00:34:22,093 --> 00:34:24,261
When they get to my house,
I'm grooming.
390
00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:26,396
To build a trusted relationship.
391
00:34:26,431 --> 00:34:27,998
I'm showing her more affection,
392
00:34:28,032 --> 00:34:28,932
I'm holding her.
393
00:34:28,966 --> 00:34:31,234
You know, I want her
to be my best friend,
394
00:34:31,269 --> 00:34:32,169
that's what I want.
395
00:34:32,203 --> 00:34:33,970
I always loved my uncle,
396
00:34:34,005 --> 00:34:37,507
'til 20 years later
when I had my best memory.
397
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:39,876
He was special to me.
398
00:34:39,911 --> 00:34:41,711
[Barbi] They would buy me gifts,
399
00:34:41,746 --> 00:34:43,580
they would take me
to feed the ducks.
400
00:34:43,614 --> 00:34:47,017
My uncle would let me
play on his CB radio,
401
00:34:47,051 --> 00:34:48,351
and he would let me go in there
402
00:34:48,386 --> 00:34:50,687
and I would be this big girl
403
00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:51,588
sitting in the seat
404
00:34:51,622 --> 00:34:53,056
with the microphone
in front of me
405
00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:57,694
and he even gave me a CB name,
he called me, "Baby face."
406
00:34:57,728 --> 00:35:03,767
Just imagine how it would be
if the one who's grooming you
407
00:35:03,801 --> 00:35:05,735
is of your own family
408
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:10,140
and very much liked
by your father and mother
409
00:35:10,174 --> 00:35:12,609
or it is even
your father and mother.
410
00:35:12,643 --> 00:35:14,611
How complicated is that?
411
00:35:14,645 --> 00:35:16,480
To me, my dad was my hero,
412
00:35:16,514 --> 00:35:18,148
so, like, I wanted
to be like him.
413
00:35:18,182 --> 00:35:19,816
I always thought
that he was smart
414
00:35:19,851 --> 00:35:23,220
and like, that he made
something of himself.
415
00:35:23,254 --> 00:35:26,556
He kind of seemed
like a father figure to me.
416
00:35:26,591 --> 00:35:29,226
[Nicole] He was around 65.
417
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:31,161
He would take me privately
into the back
418
00:35:31,195 --> 00:35:32,729
and ask me how I was doing.
419
00:35:32,763 --> 00:35:34,331
You know, what my opinions were,
420
00:35:34,365 --> 00:35:35,799
how I was doing in school.
421
00:35:35,833 --> 00:35:37,767
He would make me special meals.
422
00:35:37,802 --> 00:35:38,902
He was affectionate.
423
00:35:38,936 --> 00:35:40,537
[Dennis]
I would show the affection.
424
00:35:40,571 --> 00:35:42,216
First thing when she got
out of the car,
425
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:43,340
I'd be there to greet her,
426
00:35:44,308 --> 00:35:47,110
hug her and hold her.
I almost never left her.
427
00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:49,112
She was my girlfriend to me,
you know?
428
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:50,580
Rather than a little kid.
429
00:35:51,582 --> 00:35:53,483
When she came in my room,
I'd be on my computer.
430
00:35:53,518 --> 00:35:56,119
"Come on, sit on my lap.
You can play the computer."
431
00:35:56,154 --> 00:35:57,320
You know?
432
00:35:57,355 --> 00:35:59,456
"I don't let anybody else
play it,
433
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:00,857
but I'll let you play it."
434
00:36:02,059 --> 00:36:05,362
Well, I definitely
was clearly his favorite.
435
00:36:05,396 --> 00:36:07,330
He bought me some fragrances.
436
00:36:07,365 --> 00:36:09,299
- He gave me a ring.
- Lotions.
437
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:10,878
- Flowers.
- Money.
438
00:36:10,902 --> 00:36:12,369
- Jewelry.
- Perfumes.
439
00:36:12,403 --> 00:36:13,503
Ice cream.
440
00:36:13,538 --> 00:36:14,437
Plane tickets.
441
00:36:14,472 --> 00:36:16,339
[Dennis] I was a con artist,
442
00:36:16,374 --> 00:36:19,342
and I was constantly putting
thoughts on their head.
443
00:36:19,377 --> 00:36:21,645
You know, I guess you
can call it brainwashing.
444
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:23,446
I guess it is brainwashing.
445
00:36:23,481 --> 00:36:25,215
That's what it was
all about, you know?
446
00:36:25,249 --> 00:36:28,218
I was getting what I want.
You know, they loved me.
447
00:36:28,252 --> 00:36:30,153
I knew that I had
to make them think
448
00:36:30,188 --> 00:36:32,322
I was the greatest grandpa
in the world.
449
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:36,126
Did you, like, have code words
450
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,994
with your abuser
451
00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:41,464
that meant something special
to you and him?
452
00:36:41,499 --> 00:36:43,833
[Gwen] There was this thing
which I had forgotten about,
453
00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:45,502
but it came back
through the letters
454
00:36:45,536 --> 00:36:50,440
where nine is my lucky number
and he...
455
00:36:50,474 --> 00:36:52,475
kind of made it
his lucky number too
456
00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:55,712
and there is
so many references to that,
457
00:36:55,746 --> 00:36:57,280
so that became like a thing.
458
00:36:57,315 --> 00:36:59,649
And then
when I was googling him,
459
00:36:59,684 --> 00:37:02,252
what I found was that he
started a company...
460
00:37:02,286 --> 00:37:03,587
Don't tell me it had nine in it.
461
00:37:03,621 --> 00:37:05,021
- [Gwen] With nine in it.
- Oh.
462
00:37:05,056 --> 00:37:07,023
[Gwen] Something
that was meaningful...
463
00:37:07,058 --> 00:37:09,392
- That only you and him would recognize.
- [Gwen] Right.
464
00:37:10,261 --> 00:37:12,062
Talk about being groomed,
like...
465
00:37:13,731 --> 00:37:15,665
It's just unbelievable
the depth of it
466
00:37:15,733 --> 00:37:20,370
- and how intricate it all became.
- [Gwen] Yes.
467
00:37:21,872 --> 00:37:25,075
You think it's about you,
it probably isn't.
468
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:27,277
It's kind of hard to admit,
469
00:37:27,311 --> 00:37:29,946
especially if you're still
470
00:37:29,981 --> 00:37:31,715
in a very vulnerable place,
to say,
471
00:37:31,749 --> 00:37:33,583
"Oh, that guy
who was saying I'm so special,
472
00:37:33,618 --> 00:37:36,620
"yeah, he's a criminal. I'm actually
not that special." That sucks.
473
00:37:38,556 --> 00:37:42,225
The letters, the gifts,
the many bike rides home.
474
00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:44,594
He had become
a huge part of my life.
475
00:37:45,896 --> 00:37:49,366
But the crazy thing is,
after I left the swim team,
476
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,902
I completely forgot
that any of it ever happened.
477
00:37:52,937 --> 00:37:55,438
It's fascinating how the
minds can just block out
478
00:37:55,473 --> 00:37:57,107
what's too painful to remember,
479
00:37:57,908 --> 00:37:59,409
but then five years later,
480
00:37:59,443 --> 00:38:01,378
when I had my first boyfriend,
481
00:38:01,445 --> 00:38:03,913
I started to have nightmares.
482
00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:06,850
Every night I was in the
shower, I didn't recognize.
483
00:38:07,818 --> 00:38:10,153
It was months later
before I realized
484
00:38:10,187 --> 00:38:12,355
that those dreams
were actually a memory.
485
00:38:13,491 --> 00:38:15,759
And when it finally all
became clear,
486
00:38:15,793 --> 00:38:17,627
I wrote him a letter.
487
00:38:17,662 --> 00:38:19,629
I said,
"I'm not going to report you,
488
00:38:19,664 --> 00:38:21,197
but I want you to seek help."
489
00:38:25,036 --> 00:38:26,803
And, at some point,
I was walking the dog.
490
00:38:26,837 --> 00:38:28,405
We were walking here
491
00:38:28,439 --> 00:38:30,940
and suddenly he had this red car
492
00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:34,277
and he just parked it.
Like this.
493
00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:36,780
In front of me and got out
of the car, and I...
494
00:38:36,814 --> 00:38:38,448
That's only the second time
495
00:38:38,482 --> 00:38:40,183
that I was ever
really scared of him
496
00:38:40,217 --> 00:38:43,119
and he just gets out and says,
497
00:38:43,154 --> 00:38:46,456
"I got your letter",
and he said,
498
00:38:46,524 --> 00:38:48,892
"You know that's a lie.
You know this was real love."
499
00:38:49,627 --> 00:38:50,660
And he turned around,
500
00:38:50,695 --> 00:38:52,262
went back into his car
and drove off.
501
00:38:52,296 --> 00:38:55,131
And that's the last time
I've ever seen him,
502
00:38:55,166 --> 00:38:57,434
but I remember in that moment
when he got out of the car
503
00:38:57,468 --> 00:38:58,301
I thought I was dead.
504
00:39:00,771 --> 00:39:04,641
[Harriet] So you can see howfeeling sorry for the person,
505
00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:07,677
and also doubting,
"maybe it was pure love."
506
00:39:07,712 --> 00:39:09,379
Of course you can confuse them.
507
00:39:12,883 --> 00:39:14,384
[Gwen]
So I'm starting to wonder,
508
00:39:14,418 --> 00:39:17,687
"Do I want to report
my offender or do I not?"
509
00:39:17,722 --> 00:39:20,724
And part
of why it's so difficult
510
00:39:20,758 --> 00:39:24,060
is, "Oh, maybe
it wasn't a big deal,"
511
00:39:24,095 --> 00:39:27,163
and, you know,
"I was... I never said no.
512
00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:28,398
I feel complicit."
513
00:39:30,234 --> 00:39:32,369
"Do I really want
to ruin his life?"
514
00:39:32,403 --> 00:39:34,003
[Dennis] Right. Well,
515
00:39:34,038 --> 00:39:36,139
he was very good at grooming
516
00:39:36,173 --> 00:39:38,475
because he groomed you
to think that.
517
00:39:38,509 --> 00:39:42,078
It puts a lot of confusion,
I think, in my mind
518
00:39:42,113 --> 00:39:43,079
because then I think,
519
00:39:43,114 --> 00:39:44,514
"He didn't realize it was wrong.
520
00:39:44,548 --> 00:39:45,515
He made a mistake,
521
00:39:45,549 --> 00:39:47,984
maybe I shouldn't throw him
under the bus."
522
00:39:48,018 --> 00:39:50,720
But, you know,
you saying things like,
523
00:39:50,755 --> 00:39:52,066
"It's not going to stop."
524
00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:53,723
- Like, if you're...
- [Dennis] Right.
525
00:39:53,758 --> 00:39:55,925
You know, his sense of sexuality
526
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,560
is fully developed at that age,
527
00:39:57,595 --> 00:39:59,896
he's not going to suddenly
not be attracted to kids,
528
00:39:59,930 --> 00:40:01,064
that's not going to end.
529
00:40:01,098 --> 00:40:03,733
[Dennis] Oh, no.
I mean, it's not natural.
530
00:40:03,768 --> 00:40:05,135
24-year-old
531
00:40:05,169 --> 00:40:07,404
wants to get together
with a 12-year-old?
532
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:09,205
Not unless he gets caught,
it won't end.
533
00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:10,740
Cause I know me.
534
00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:14,411
You know, I might have stopped
for a while,
535
00:40:14,445 --> 00:40:15,845
but sooner or later
536
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,213
I would've found the right kid.
537
00:40:18,182 --> 00:40:22,552
My opinion, end it.
You'll feel better.
538
00:40:22,586 --> 00:40:29,592
[music]
539
00:41:32,156 --> 00:41:39,162
[music]
540
00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:55,912
[typing]
541
00:41:55,946 --> 00:42:03,019
[music]
542
00:45:08,205 --> 00:45:09,072
[Gwen] The first time
543
00:45:09,106 --> 00:45:10,673
I remember something happening.
544
00:45:13,677 --> 00:45:16,212
We were at a camp
with the swim team
545
00:45:17,614 --> 00:45:19,449
and at some point
we were in a jacuzzi.
546
00:45:20,718 --> 00:45:22,885
Three or four kids
were sitting on one side
547
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,755
and he and I were sitting
on the other side.
548
00:45:25,789 --> 00:45:27,423
And we were just having
a conversation,
549
00:45:27,458 --> 00:45:28,858
we were having fun.
550
00:45:28,892 --> 00:45:31,394
We were just talking about
what 12-year-olds talk about.
551
00:45:32,629 --> 00:45:36,099
When he first touched me
I thought he made a mistake.
552
00:45:36,133 --> 00:45:37,834
I thought
he just touched me somewhere
553
00:45:37,868 --> 00:45:39,135
where he wasn't supposed to
554
00:45:39,169 --> 00:45:41,904
but that was because his hand
was there by accident.
555
00:45:42,773 --> 00:45:43,773
And then he kept going.
556
00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:47,710
And I remember
just being really confused.
557
00:45:48,779 --> 00:45:49,679
But I was trapped,
558
00:45:50,848 --> 00:45:53,015
and I remember sitting there
with a blank face
559
00:45:53,050 --> 00:45:55,418
and making sure
that nobody would see
560
00:45:55,452 --> 00:45:57,386
because I didn't want
to get him in trouble.
561
00:45:59,022 --> 00:46:01,591
And that was the first time
I vividly remember
562
00:46:01,625 --> 00:46:03,259
not wanting
to get him in trouble.
563
00:46:12,903 --> 00:46:16,572
They had to specifically know
what physically happened,
564
00:46:16,607 --> 00:46:18,141
and they were really validating.
565
00:46:18,175 --> 00:46:20,243
It doesn't matter what you said
566
00:46:20,277 --> 00:46:23,146
or what you thought
or how you felt,
567
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:25,114
how he felt, what he...
Doesn't matter.
568
00:46:25,149 --> 00:46:26,949
He is wrong. Period.
569
00:46:26,984 --> 00:46:28,718
And then there's
like a computer system
570
00:46:28,752 --> 00:46:30,553
where they put all the dates
and his age
571
00:46:30,587 --> 00:46:32,755
and his date of birth
or whatever,
572
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:37,460
what they know
and then it spits out the term
573
00:46:37,494 --> 00:46:39,095
and, like,
the cite of limitation
574
00:46:39,830 --> 00:46:42,265
and on most things
575
00:46:42,299 --> 00:46:43,800
is like 5 years,
10 years, 20 years,
576
00:46:43,834 --> 00:46:44,801
and this was like none.
577
00:46:44,835 --> 00:46:46,536
There's none. This is wrong.
578
00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:49,205
He should've, in, like,
a Dutch expression, he said...
579
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,807
[in Dutch]
580
00:46:50,841 --> 00:46:53,609
When he should've been
the grown up here
581
00:46:53,644 --> 00:46:55,812
and, like, understood
what he was doing
582
00:46:55,846 --> 00:46:58,080
and no, not okay.
583
00:46:58,115 --> 00:46:58,981
That was nice.
584
00:46:59,016 --> 00:47:06,088
[music]
585
00:47:46,063 --> 00:47:47,830
[Asia] Dear heavenly Father,
thank you Lord
586
00:47:47,865 --> 00:47:50,333
and praise you
for watching over all of us
587
00:47:50,367 --> 00:47:53,135
last night and this morning
at keeping us safe.
588
00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:55,137
- [Voice on phone] Amen.
- [Asia] Amen.
589
00:47:55,172 --> 00:47:59,141
♪ You're the heart
of my contentment ♪
590
00:47:59,176 --> 00:48:03,112
♪ Hope for all I do ♪
591
00:48:03,146 --> 00:48:09,285
♪ Jesus, you're the center
of my joy ♪
592
00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:14,790
[Gwen] I wanted to ask youif you would be comfortable
593
00:48:14,825 --> 00:48:17,193
describing what happened,
where were you at
594
00:48:17,227 --> 00:48:18,294
and what was going on.
595
00:48:18,629 --> 00:48:19,462
Okay.
596
00:48:24,801 --> 00:48:26,736
[Denis] After I get their trust
597
00:48:26,770 --> 00:48:29,272
and I feel that I could do
almost anything with them,
598
00:48:31,608 --> 00:48:32,708
I try to molest them.
599
00:48:35,412 --> 00:48:37,546
[Asia] The first timewas at the church.
600
00:48:38,482 --> 00:48:40,249
I go in the back office
to get the CDs,
601
00:48:40,284 --> 00:48:41,183
he followed me.
602
00:48:41,218 --> 00:48:42,451
And I was wearing these pants
603
00:48:42,486 --> 00:48:43,653
that had the zipper in the back
604
00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:48,024
and I'm bent overlooking for,
605
00:48:48,058 --> 00:48:49,926
um, some CDs,
606
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,930
he then holds me down
and unzips the pants.
607
00:48:55,332 --> 00:48:56,265
And, um...
608
00:48:58,268 --> 00:48:59,168
Well yeah.
609
00:48:59,202 --> 00:49:00,436
When he was done,
610
00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:02,738
he told me to go clean myself up
611
00:49:02,773 --> 00:49:04,273
because I was probably bleeding.
612
00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:07,977
One of the FOC group practices
613
00:49:08,011 --> 00:49:10,813
he told me it was going to be
at his house.
614
00:49:10,847 --> 00:49:12,815
So I started playing and singing
615
00:49:12,849 --> 00:49:14,083
and he was playing his organ
616
00:49:14,117 --> 00:49:16,552
and pulling out different
sheet music to practice.
617
00:49:17,988 --> 00:49:20,690
And then at one point
he pulled out
618
00:49:20,724 --> 00:49:22,024
a pornographic magazine.
619
00:49:22,893 --> 00:49:24,660
He told me
that that was my lucky day
620
00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:26,595
and then at one point
621
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:30,566
I remember him grabbing me
by the back of my neck
622
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,504
and pushing myself down
on top of him and, uh...
623
00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:42,411
I can remember feeling
like I was disconnecting
624
00:49:42,446 --> 00:49:44,146
from my body.
625
00:49:45,382 --> 00:49:48,684
Feeling
like I was dying in a way.
626
00:49:51,054 --> 00:49:54,957
20 years after the abuse
I was walking with my son
627
00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:57,093
through their part of the house
628
00:49:57,127 --> 00:50:00,596
and I remember
smelling his cologne
629
00:50:00,630 --> 00:50:01,897
and just wanting to throw up.
630
00:50:02,966 --> 00:50:08,504
I had a flash
of my sister and me,
631
00:50:08,538 --> 00:50:11,807
5-years-old, in his bed
632
00:50:11,842 --> 00:50:15,678
and I see my little,
beautiful sister bouncing...
633
00:50:15,712 --> 00:50:19,482
He's bouncing her
but on this area
634
00:50:19,516 --> 00:50:23,085
and you just hear her
crying and crying.
635
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:30,126
[music]
636
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:42,138
[videocall ringing]
637
00:53:21,598 --> 00:53:24,833
I'd call it
soul murder when you, um...
638
00:53:26,703 --> 00:53:30,072
when you attack a child
and when you rape a child.
639
00:53:31,241 --> 00:53:32,975
You leave the body intact,
640
00:53:33,009 --> 00:53:36,845
but the soul could quite
possibly be killed,
641
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:38,814
destroyed, you know,
642
00:53:38,848 --> 00:53:40,783
it totally changed the chemistry
643
00:53:40,817 --> 00:53:43,686
in the child's brain,
they've proven.
644
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,121
Um, and you're not
the same person anymore
645
00:53:46,156 --> 00:53:47,122
once that happens.
646
00:53:47,157 --> 00:53:47,990
No.
647
00:53:58,802 --> 00:54:02,071
[Gwen] Yeah, I definitely
started to get sick here already.
648
00:54:02,105 --> 00:54:05,641
And then I think I lost
like 10-15 kilos after this.
649
00:54:07,477 --> 00:54:10,212
"This afternoon on the boat
I was looking at my legs"
650
00:54:10,247 --> 00:54:12,581
and I just saw
two enormous pieces of meat.
651
00:54:13,116 --> 00:54:15,284
So enormous", it says.
652
00:54:15,318 --> 00:54:17,720
And "So fat and so ugly."
653
00:54:17,754 --> 00:54:20,756
So now I feel the need
to stop eating
654
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:22,891
to get skinny, really skinny.
655
00:54:22,926 --> 00:54:24,426
No more needing to feel
656
00:54:24,494 --> 00:54:26,729
how I can be judged
for everything I do,
657
00:54:26,763 --> 00:54:29,565
for every move I make,
for every bite that I eat.
658
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:31,900
I want to be gone.
659
00:54:31,935 --> 00:54:33,068
"Gone. Gone."
660
00:54:34,537 --> 00:54:37,640
It's something I wrote
when I was anorexic.
661
00:54:38,975 --> 00:54:43,746
It was like a 5 year, 6 year
or whatever process and...
662
00:54:45,548 --> 00:54:47,616
But my therapist,
that's the one who...
663
00:54:48,885 --> 00:54:50,219
The guy told me,
the psychologist,
664
00:54:50,253 --> 00:54:51,920
psychiatrist, whatever,
and nothing worked
665
00:54:51,955 --> 00:54:54,723
and then she kind of...
666
00:54:56,092 --> 00:54:57,393
I feel like she just
understood me
667
00:54:57,427 --> 00:55:00,663
and just listened to me
and tried to forget
668
00:55:00,697 --> 00:55:02,931
about the eating all together
669
00:55:02,966 --> 00:55:04,300
and just let go of that,
670
00:55:04,334 --> 00:55:05,501
and of course we had to touch it
671
00:55:05,535 --> 00:55:06,802
every now and then, but,
672
00:55:07,337 --> 00:55:08,804
um, she was just like,
673
00:55:08,838 --> 00:55:10,906
"It's not about that,"
and that gave me...
674
00:55:10,940 --> 00:55:11,940
That made me trust her,
675
00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:12,975
cause I felt like everybody
676
00:55:13,009 --> 00:55:15,311
was just trying to stuff food
down my throat,
677
00:55:15,345 --> 00:55:18,180
but she was trying to actually
understand what was going on.
678
00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:22,885
"I want to be so skinny that
there's nothing left of me."
679
00:55:26,690 --> 00:55:30,793
I was 75 pound,
could barely go to school,
680
00:55:30,827 --> 00:55:32,328
and became too weak to swim.
681
00:55:41,538 --> 00:55:44,239
[Keith] I was sufferingfrom anorexia.
682
00:55:44,274 --> 00:55:47,409
My life was, you know,
spinning out of control
683
00:55:47,444 --> 00:55:50,446
and, um, after the abuse ended,
684
00:55:50,513 --> 00:55:53,115
everything just kind of rose
to the surface
685
00:55:53,149 --> 00:55:55,351
so it resulted
in an eating disorder
686
00:55:55,385 --> 00:55:57,453
and severe depression,
687
00:55:57,487 --> 00:56:01,523
anxiety, you know,
night terrors, nightmares.
688
00:56:01,558 --> 00:56:06,195
There was all this going on
in my life at that time.
689
00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:10,065
It made me physically sick.
690
00:56:10,133 --> 00:56:13,135
I've been in and out
of hospitals since then.
691
00:56:13,169 --> 00:56:16,705
Things I can't really
explain except for stress.
692
00:56:17,741 --> 00:56:19,742
I mean,
I was just in the hospital
693
00:56:19,776 --> 00:56:21,410
for two weeks.
694
00:56:21,444 --> 00:56:23,045
I mean, stress into stroke.
695
00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:26,582
And I'm kind of young
for all that...
696
00:56:31,354 --> 00:56:32,855
[Denis] After the molesting,
697
00:56:32,889 --> 00:56:35,257
the big thing is use the trust
698
00:56:35,291 --> 00:56:36,592
to keep her quiet.
699
00:56:40,597 --> 00:56:44,400
This is secret,
don't tell anybody.
700
00:56:44,434 --> 00:56:46,034
You don't want
to get grandpa in trouble.
701
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:47,669
Then I won't see you anymore.
702
00:56:47,704 --> 00:56:49,405
You know,
we can't go and do things.
703
00:56:49,439 --> 00:56:51,240
You know, and I build that up
a little bit more.
704
00:56:51,274 --> 00:56:52,641
You know?
705
00:56:52,675 --> 00:56:55,577
Uh, but getting somebody
to tell you something
706
00:56:55,612 --> 00:56:57,513
that she hasn't told
anybody else
707
00:56:57,547 --> 00:56:59,348
or he hasn't told anybody else
708
00:56:59,382 --> 00:57:00,916
and then holding that,
709
00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:04,086
you know, so that you know
that if you ever tell on me,
710
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,587
I'm going to tell on you.
711
00:57:05,622 --> 00:57:07,423
I go back and forth
on everything,
712
00:57:07,457 --> 00:57:09,558
he explicitly said,
713
00:57:09,592 --> 00:57:11,794
"don't tell anyone,
you need to keep it a secret."
714
00:57:11,828 --> 00:57:13,962
But it was...
It was just really clear
715
00:57:13,997 --> 00:57:15,497
that it was supposed
to be a secret.
716
00:57:15,532 --> 00:57:17,599
I don't know how I knew
or why I knew,
717
00:57:17,634 --> 00:57:19,435
but I knew to not say anything.
718
00:57:19,469 --> 00:57:21,236
[Barbi] Like,
why didn't I say anything?
719
00:57:21,271 --> 00:57:23,439
They must've said
something to me
720
00:57:23,473 --> 00:57:26,008
to convince me
not to say something.
721
00:57:26,976 --> 00:57:28,410
They start with little secrets,
722
00:57:28,445 --> 00:57:30,746
they're testing to see
if you'll keep the secret.
723
00:57:30,780 --> 00:57:32,648
- Oh, interesting.
- So it might be
724
00:57:32,682 --> 00:57:34,249
that he takes you some place
725
00:57:34,284 --> 00:57:35,617
that you weren't supposed to go
726
00:57:35,652 --> 00:57:37,553
or gives you a little tiny gift
727
00:57:37,587 --> 00:57:40,155
that he can explain away
if it ever comes to light.
728
00:57:40,190 --> 00:57:42,558
And so there's
this building up to secrecy.
729
00:57:42,592 --> 00:57:45,394
You start with ones, you test.
"Okay, will he hold that one."
730
00:57:45,428 --> 00:57:48,831
Then "will he hold that one?"
That's grooming. Straight up.
731
00:57:48,865 --> 00:57:53,702
He started putting extra money
in my pay checks every week.
732
00:57:53,736 --> 00:57:56,238
He would say, "Oh, just
don't tell anyone about this.
733
00:57:56,272 --> 00:57:57,940
This is
just between me and you."
734
00:57:57,974 --> 00:58:00,309
I just remember him
always saying
735
00:58:00,343 --> 00:58:02,044
"Don't trust other people.
736
00:58:02,078 --> 00:58:03,312
Don't talk to other people
737
00:58:03,346 --> 00:58:05,447
about what happens
in the house."
738
00:58:05,482 --> 00:58:09,518
My dad asked
why I didn't tell him...
739
00:58:23,366 --> 00:58:25,968
I had to keep telling myself,
"Okay, I'm a good girl.
740
00:58:26,002 --> 00:58:26,869
I'm a good girl.
741
00:58:26,903 --> 00:58:29,171
I'm still a good girl,
it's okay.
742
00:58:29,205 --> 00:58:31,173
I'm okay. I'll be okay."
743
00:58:33,009 --> 00:58:34,676
But for some reason I just...
744
00:58:36,579 --> 00:58:40,382
I felt like I shamed
the family somehow.
745
00:58:41,484 --> 00:58:42,751
So I didn't want
to talk about it.
746
01:00:07,537 --> 01:00:14,543
[typing]
747
01:00:19,749 --> 01:00:24,886
Whoever is a sex offender
is going to deny.
748
01:00:25,788 --> 01:00:27,389
They're great at lying,
749
01:00:27,423 --> 01:00:28,790
they're the best at lying
750
01:00:28,825 --> 01:00:30,359
and it's funny
because when I was younger
751
01:00:30,393 --> 01:00:31,893
that's when I started lying.
752
01:00:31,928 --> 01:00:34,363
"Did you do that?"
"No, I didn't do it."
753
01:00:34,397 --> 01:00:37,666
As I went through life
it got easier, you know?
754
01:00:37,700 --> 01:00:41,637
And it just got to be
a part of my being, I guess.
755
01:00:44,107 --> 01:00:46,208
The part of me that is groomed
756
01:00:46,242 --> 01:00:48,777
would expect him to be arrested,
757
01:00:48,811 --> 01:00:53,782
go in and say,
"I'm so sorry that I hurt her."
758
01:00:54,450 --> 01:00:56,885
I never intended to do so.
759
01:00:56,919 --> 01:01:00,389
I really loved her,
cared for her,
760
01:01:00,423 --> 01:01:02,658
and I'm so sorry to hear
761
01:01:02,692 --> 01:01:05,160
"that this is the impact
that it's had on her."
762
01:01:05,194 --> 01:01:07,996
That would be consistent
with the person that I saw
763
01:01:08,031 --> 01:01:12,234
and the person that portrayer
care for me and love for me.
764
01:01:12,268 --> 01:01:14,503
He is taking a stance
against me,
765
01:01:15,471 --> 01:01:17,839
makes me see
a different side of him
766
01:01:17,874 --> 01:01:20,108
and it's almost
like he's ungrooming me
767
01:01:20,143 --> 01:01:22,778
in a way, it's making me see
768
01:01:22,812 --> 01:01:24,613
he maybe more for what he is
769
01:01:24,647 --> 01:01:26,748
versus how he portrayed himself
770
01:01:26,783 --> 01:01:28,150
towards me for all those years.
771
01:01:29,552 --> 01:01:32,254
That's just exactly
why it's good
772
01:01:32,288 --> 01:01:33,488
to have the knowledge
773
01:01:33,523 --> 01:01:37,025
of maybe you've seen two sides
of the person.
774
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:41,630
That helps.
That helps to clear confusion.
775
01:01:42,665 --> 01:01:43,799
He doesn't even want to admit
776
01:01:43,833 --> 01:01:45,701
to have sent me the letter,
are you kidding me?
777
01:01:46,302 --> 01:01:53,308
[music]
778
01:02:00,783 --> 01:02:06,955
I got pregnant as a result
of the abuse of my father.
779
01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:08,623
Um...
780
01:02:11,627 --> 01:02:12,961
I was 15.
781
01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:19,067
He tried a natural remedy
for an abortion.
782
01:02:19,102 --> 01:02:23,205
Aspirin mixed
with some other things
783
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:27,876
and that then
led to him taking me
784
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:29,344
to an abortion clinic
785
01:02:30,947 --> 01:02:36,184
when I was pretty far along
in the pregnancy
786
01:02:36,219 --> 01:02:40,722
and I was awake while
the procedure happened.
787
01:02:42,058 --> 01:02:43,291
He even said,
788
01:02:44,293 --> 01:02:46,595
"You should be thankful
789
01:02:46,629 --> 01:02:49,064
that your dad brought you here,
790
01:02:49,098 --> 01:02:51,867
there's not a lot of parents
who would do that."
791
01:02:53,202 --> 01:02:54,035
Um...
792
01:02:57,106 --> 01:02:58,774
That moment I think shaped
793
01:03:00,810 --> 01:03:02,410
the beginning of me, like,
794
01:03:02,445 --> 01:03:06,248
really separating
in a way from him.
795
01:03:12,455 --> 01:03:14,790
He got a sentence of 20 years.
796
01:03:15,925 --> 01:03:18,426
[Gwen] How did it feel
when he was convicted?
797
01:03:43,953 --> 01:03:45,086
[Denis] I just got off of work,
798
01:03:45,121 --> 01:03:46,655
it was 6 o'clock in the morning
799
01:03:47,323 --> 01:03:49,057
and as I was driving home,
800
01:03:49,091 --> 01:03:51,827
whoever was on back on me,
kept following me.
801
01:03:51,861 --> 01:03:53,328
And I started to get nervous.
802
01:03:53,362 --> 01:03:55,430
When I came around,
I pulled on my driveway,
803
01:03:56,465 --> 01:03:58,800
in front of me there's
the state police.
804
01:03:58,835 --> 01:04:00,602
Federal officers.
805
01:04:00,636 --> 01:04:01,703
I'm like,
"How am I going to lie?
806
01:04:01,737 --> 01:04:02,838
What am I going to say?"
807
01:04:02,872 --> 01:04:05,440
I didn't even think
about what I did yet, I mean,
808
01:04:05,474 --> 01:04:07,375
I did it, but now
I want to get out of it.
809
01:04:07,410 --> 01:04:09,211
I sat down with my head
between my legs
810
01:04:09,245 --> 01:04:12,414
and I though,
"My God what did I do?"
811
01:04:13,416 --> 01:04:14,416
You know, "What's..."
812
01:04:16,185 --> 01:04:17,385
I'm thinking of prison,
813
01:04:17,420 --> 01:04:19,988
the bars and these crazy guys
that are there.
814
01:04:20,022 --> 01:04:21,590
I mean, all these things
went through my head
815
01:04:22,525 --> 01:04:24,025
and I get a call,
816
01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,861
and I'm thinking
"Who is this now?"
817
01:04:25,895 --> 01:04:26,795
I answered it
818
01:04:26,829 --> 01:04:28,864
and it was
my step-granddaughter.
819
01:04:28,898 --> 01:04:29,865
She's the one I molested.
820
01:04:29,899 --> 01:04:31,533
She says, "Grandpa," you know,
821
01:04:31,567 --> 01:04:32,400
"I'm sorry
822
01:04:33,569 --> 01:04:36,004
that I had to get you
in trouble."
823
01:04:36,038 --> 01:04:37,205
You know? I mean, see?
824
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:38,974
The lies I told her,
825
01:04:39,008 --> 01:04:41,343
she was actually feeling
so much guilt
826
01:04:41,811 --> 01:04:43,278
because of that.
827
01:04:43,312 --> 01:04:45,513
You know,
she was apologizing for,
828
01:04:45,548 --> 01:04:46,915
you know, doing the right thing.
829
01:07:39,388 --> 01:07:40,655
I want to share something
with you
830
01:07:40,689 --> 01:07:42,290
that happened this morning.
831
01:07:43,626 --> 01:07:44,459
Um...
832
01:07:45,861 --> 01:07:47,228
You're, like, the second person
833
01:07:47,296 --> 01:07:48,496
that I'm telling,
834
01:07:48,531 --> 01:07:51,466
and I got an e-mail this morning
835
01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:55,403
completely out of nowhere
from a girl in the same team
836
01:07:55,738 --> 01:07:56,704
who said,
837
01:07:56,739 --> 01:07:58,807
"Are you talking
about this person?
838
01:07:58,841 --> 01:08:00,075
Cause this happened to me."
839
01:08:01,010 --> 01:08:03,244
And it just, I don't know.
840
01:08:03,279 --> 01:08:04,612
It just broke my heart,
you know?
841
01:08:06,949 --> 01:08:09,584
But I think
I've never been prouder
842
01:08:09,618 --> 01:08:12,420
that I reported or proud
of anything I've done,
843
01:08:12,455 --> 01:08:14,889
maybe, after when I got
that e-mail
844
01:08:14,924 --> 01:08:16,001
I just thought
I did the right thing,
845
01:08:16,025 --> 01:08:17,025
you know?
846
01:08:18,127 --> 01:08:22,564
I would be interested
in hearing your process
847
01:08:22,598 --> 01:08:25,800
of how you did that because
I've never reported anything.
848
01:08:25,835 --> 01:08:27,902
I think for everybody
the process is different
849
01:08:27,937 --> 01:08:29,304
and what is right is different.
850
01:08:29,338 --> 01:08:30,572
I don't think there is an answer
851
01:08:30,606 --> 01:08:32,240
for everybody that's the same.
852
01:08:32,274 --> 01:08:34,042
But in my case, it was hard.
853
01:08:34,076 --> 01:08:36,778
It was so hard to talk about it
854
01:08:36,812 --> 01:08:38,379
and to go through the question.
855
01:08:38,414 --> 01:08:39,581
They told me
that if this happened
856
01:08:39,615 --> 01:08:41,916
it is a crime
and a really serious one.
857
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:46,454
[sobbing]
858
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,603
Now I feel
more motivated also to go
859
01:09:01,637 --> 01:09:05,173
and appeal
and tell the prosecutor
860
01:09:05,207 --> 01:09:06,307
that they're wrong. It's like,
861
01:09:06,342 --> 01:09:08,009
"You've got to get this guy
off the street."
862
01:09:09,411 --> 01:09:10,512
I didn't really
feel that before.
863
01:09:10,546 --> 01:09:12,881
Before I was, "Oh, I didn't
validate me a little bit.
864
01:09:12,915 --> 01:09:14,182
Maybe I didn't want
to take it seriously,
865
01:09:14,216 --> 01:09:15,450
then you start feeling like,
doing it."
866
01:09:15,484 --> 01:09:17,719
Now, I'm like "Go get this guy.
867
01:09:17,753 --> 01:09:18,853
Go get him now."
868
01:09:26,328 --> 01:09:28,296
I was told
that to have any chance
869
01:09:28,330 --> 01:09:31,166
of reopening my case
I needed to do two things,
870
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,601
try to get DNA on the letters.
871
01:09:33,636 --> 01:09:34,969
Even though the prosecutors
872
01:09:35,004 --> 01:09:36,304
said they couldn't find any DNA,
873
01:09:36,338 --> 01:09:37,539
try to find it,
874
01:09:37,573 --> 01:09:40,175
and then try to get
a handwriting sample from him
875
01:09:40,209 --> 01:09:42,677
to match to the writing
of the letters.
876
01:09:42,711 --> 01:09:45,513
As a first step
I took the letters to a lab.
877
01:09:45,548 --> 01:09:47,015
- Welcome.
- Nice to meet you, thank you.
878
01:09:47,049 --> 01:09:48,149
- Follow me.
- Thank you.
879
01:09:49,919 --> 01:09:51,886
[Gwen] We are lookingfor a second opinion.
880
01:09:51,921 --> 01:09:54,389
We have evidence
in the form of letters,
881
01:09:54,423 --> 01:09:57,358
but they're not able to match
the suspect to the letters.
882
01:09:57,393 --> 01:09:58,893
And so what we want
to try and see
883
01:09:58,928 --> 01:10:00,028
is there really no DNA,
884
01:10:00,062 --> 01:10:02,330
cause we still have
the stamp on the card.
885
01:10:02,364 --> 01:10:04,299
Does that mean
that the stamp was no tested?
886
01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:05,333
Would you take it out?
887
01:10:05,367 --> 01:10:08,036
Usually if we would test
the stamp on DNA
888
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:09,671
then we would,
indeed take it out.
889
01:10:09,705 --> 01:10:11,172
Especially
if it's an old letter,
890
01:10:11,207 --> 01:10:13,541
maybe the person
who left the DNA licked it.
891
01:10:13,576 --> 01:10:15,543
- Mm-hmmm.
- And it's well isolated
892
01:10:15,578 --> 01:10:18,746
on the card so it would be one
of the best places to start.
893
01:10:19,582 --> 01:10:21,549
So is my DNA
going to be all over?
894
01:10:21,584 --> 01:10:23,518
Your DNA is definitely
going to be there
895
01:10:23,552 --> 01:10:24,786
- if you touched it.
- Right.
896
01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:25,987
So I think it would be best
897
01:10:26,021 --> 01:10:27,722
if we take a reference sample
of you too.
898
01:10:32,995 --> 01:10:35,730
It takes about four weeks
until we send the answer.
899
01:10:37,900 --> 01:10:44,906
[typing]
900
01:10:56,252 --> 01:10:57,252
[doorbell rings]
901
01:10:59,321 --> 01:11:00,221
Hey.
902
01:11:18,440 --> 01:11:19,907
[Gwen] Raimondo told meit would probably
903
01:11:19,942 --> 01:11:21,242
take a while before he would get
904
01:11:21,277 --> 01:11:23,578
the right opportunity
to get a handwriting sample.
905
01:11:24,713 --> 01:11:25,913
But in the meantime,
906
01:11:25,948 --> 01:11:27,181
he found out that my offender
907
01:11:27,216 --> 01:11:29,384
lives just five minutes away
from my parents house.
908
01:11:31,086 --> 01:11:33,755
He had blacked out
all his windows.
909
01:11:33,789 --> 01:11:36,224
He never married
and he doesn't have a family.
910
01:11:38,761 --> 01:11:40,094
He found out that he remained
911
01:11:40,129 --> 01:11:42,797
at the swim club for years
after I left,
912
01:11:42,831 --> 01:11:45,066
and as recently
as three years ago
913
01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:46,634
he was working at summer camps.
914
01:11:50,606 --> 01:11:51,939
I'm a little nervous.
915
01:11:51,974 --> 01:11:54,342
Well should I get straight
to the point then?
916
01:11:54,376 --> 01:11:57,979
Yes. Let's do it the Dutch way
and get straight to the point.
917
01:11:58,781 --> 01:12:00,782
Okay. So as we investigated
918
01:12:00,816 --> 01:12:03,151
five of your letters
that you gave
919
01:12:04,386 --> 01:12:09,157
and we found two profiles,
one female profile,
920
01:12:10,025 --> 01:12:12,327
which was yours
921
01:12:12,361 --> 01:12:14,362
and so there was one other
profile too.
922
01:12:15,130 --> 01:12:16,998
And is it a male profile?
923
01:12:17,032 --> 01:12:19,267
Unfortunately,
I'm not able to say
924
01:12:19,301 --> 01:12:20,635
or disclose that
925
01:12:20,669 --> 01:12:23,805
because of the regulation
with respect of privacy.
926
01:12:23,839 --> 01:12:25,506
- Okay.
- Same profile
927
01:12:25,541 --> 01:12:27,175
on three different items.
928
01:12:27,810 --> 01:12:28,910
Yeah.
929
01:12:28,944 --> 01:12:30,178
That's really good news.
930
01:12:31,613 --> 01:12:32,580
Yeah.
931
01:12:32,614 --> 01:12:33,748
It's a great result,
932
01:12:33,782 --> 01:12:35,516
especially after such
a long time
933
01:12:35,551 --> 01:12:36,918
that we were able
to find something.
934
01:12:36,952 --> 01:12:39,787
It was rather quite
a clear profile.
935
01:12:39,822 --> 01:12:42,256
It's really good news, so...
936
01:12:42,291 --> 01:12:43,925
Yeah, I think
it's the best result
937
01:12:43,959 --> 01:12:45,026
that you could've hoped for.
938
01:12:45,494 --> 01:12:46,661
Thank you.
939
01:12:46,695 --> 01:12:48,129
- Okay.
- Have a good day.
940
01:12:59,641 --> 01:13:02,577
I have zero...
There's zero part of me
941
01:13:02,611 --> 01:13:04,379
that feels bad for him.
942
01:13:04,413 --> 01:13:06,280
Literally, there's nothing.
943
01:13:11,587 --> 01:13:13,388
After weeks of surveillance,
944
01:13:13,422 --> 01:13:15,390
Raimondo finally
had his opportunity
945
01:13:15,424 --> 01:13:16,991
to try and get
the handwriting sample
946
01:13:17,025 --> 01:13:17,892
we needed.
947
01:13:37,513 --> 01:13:39,747
[music]
948
01:14:50,752 --> 01:14:52,119
[Gwen] When I sawthe handwriting sample
949
01:14:52,154 --> 01:14:54,222
that Raimondo was able to get
950
01:14:54,256 --> 01:14:56,457
I was amazed
at how similar it was
951
01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,493
to the handwriting
I had been so familiar with
952
01:14:58,527 --> 01:14:59,460
as a little girl.
953
01:14:59,495 --> 01:15:06,534
[music]
954
01:15:28,891 --> 01:15:33,194
It feels a little bit
like a point in time
955
01:15:33,228 --> 01:15:36,697
where I have now truly done
everything I can
956
01:15:36,732 --> 01:15:40,501
and there's no possible move
for me to make
957
01:15:40,536 --> 01:15:43,104
other than going
to the prosecutor and saying,
958
01:15:43,138 --> 01:15:44,539
"This is everything we found."
959
01:15:44,573 --> 01:15:46,107
Please take a look and see
960
01:15:46,141 --> 01:15:47,375
"if you want to reopen the case."
961
01:15:47,409 --> 01:15:48,976
That's all we can ask for.
962
01:15:49,011 --> 01:15:50,444
I don't want him to be out there
963
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:52,647
and just be able to do
whatever he wants
964
01:15:52,681 --> 01:15:55,049
and go to summer camps
just because nobody
965
01:15:55,083 --> 01:15:56,050
is trying hard enough.
966
01:15:57,185 --> 01:15:58,853
Now we have to wait and see.
967
01:16:10,499 --> 01:16:13,200
[Denis] I'll probably
never stop crying about it,
968
01:16:13,936 --> 01:16:15,603
but I understand
it a lot better.
969
01:16:15,637 --> 01:16:18,105
I can't change the past
and what I did,
970
01:16:19,141 --> 01:16:20,875
so if you're going
to evaluate me,
971
01:16:20,909 --> 01:16:22,743
evaluate before you see now.
972
01:16:22,778 --> 01:16:23,711
You know that kind of thing?
973
01:16:24,646 --> 01:16:26,280
I want to be that better person
974
01:16:26,315 --> 01:16:27,782
and I know I am,
975
01:16:27,816 --> 01:16:30,318
but I still have
those thoughts, you know?
976
01:16:31,453 --> 01:16:32,887
That I did do that.
977
01:16:53,575 --> 01:16:54,642
Tell me how you're feeling.
978
01:17:09,524 --> 01:17:10,958
And one thing
we talked about a lot
979
01:17:10,993 --> 01:17:13,928
is the need to separate
the healing process
980
01:17:13,962 --> 01:17:15,363
from the legal process.
981
01:17:15,397 --> 01:17:17,598
That's one of the biggest
learnings I've had.
982
01:17:17,633 --> 01:17:20,468
You know, if nobody validates me
983
01:17:20,502 --> 01:17:22,003
and if he never goes to jail
984
01:17:22,037 --> 01:17:24,605
or if he'd never gotten arrested
985
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,807
that doesn't mean
that I can't heal.
986
01:17:26,842 --> 01:17:28,309
I feel better. I feel stronger.
987
01:17:29,311 --> 01:17:30,911
Computer hug.
988
01:17:30,946 --> 01:17:33,648
[Barbi] Okay, I've beentaking care of myself
989
01:17:33,682 --> 01:17:36,417
and going to therapy
and everybody
990
01:17:36,451 --> 01:17:37,518
that I'm close say, like,
991
01:17:37,552 --> 01:17:39,754
"You just seem so much lighter."
992
01:17:39,788 --> 01:17:41,956
Like I don't have
that weight on me.
993
01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:44,692
I mean, I still...
There's days that are hard,
994
01:17:44,726 --> 01:17:47,161
but generally speaking
just been able
995
01:17:47,195 --> 01:17:48,262
to go through with it
996
01:17:48,296 --> 01:17:50,431
and to tell you guys
and to share with you guys
997
01:17:50,465 --> 01:17:52,600
my story
it's made such a difference.
998
01:17:52,634 --> 01:17:55,369
It's just so powerful to feel
like you're not alone in it.
999
01:17:55,804 --> 01:17:56,671
Thank you.
1000
01:17:58,040 --> 01:17:59,840
As the abuse ended,
1001
01:17:59,875 --> 01:18:03,544
I had a very difficult time
1002
01:18:03,578 --> 01:18:07,248
connecting with my own
first name, Keith
1003
01:18:07,282 --> 01:18:11,652
because my first abuser,
his name was Keith.
1004
01:18:11,687 --> 01:18:13,688
And so I used
my grandparent's name.
1005
01:18:15,023 --> 01:18:17,491
35 years I've been using
that name
1006
01:18:17,526 --> 01:18:19,326
and it's only recently
1007
01:18:19,361 --> 01:18:21,796
that I've been able
to feel more comfortable
1008
01:18:22,597 --> 01:18:23,998
with my name
1009
01:18:24,032 --> 01:18:27,968
and having been able
to integrate
1010
01:18:28,003 --> 01:18:30,137
full three names,
now I feel complete.
1011
01:18:30,172 --> 01:18:32,339
Now I use Keith Renard Brennen.
1012
01:18:33,909 --> 01:18:35,843
And feel comfortable with that.
1013
01:18:35,877 --> 01:18:38,579
I try to put myself
in a position
1014
01:18:38,613 --> 01:18:40,881
where childhood abuse,
that whole experience,
1015
01:18:40,916 --> 01:18:42,683
was the worst part of my life.
1016
01:18:42,717 --> 01:18:45,753
There seems to be
a future beyond
1017
01:18:46,621 --> 01:18:49,090
trying to outlive pain.
1018
01:18:49,124 --> 01:18:52,693
I mean, whether like
dream more about my life.
1019
01:18:57,399 --> 01:19:00,835
Music is my life.
For me is a second language.
1020
01:19:01,903 --> 01:19:04,071
I wrote "March on"
1021
01:19:04,106 --> 01:19:07,775
because I wanted to feel better.
1022
01:19:07,809 --> 01:19:10,745
♪ It hurts so bad ♪
1023
01:19:10,779 --> 01:19:18,452
♪ Dropping a melody
that lasted all night ♪
1024
01:19:18,487 --> 01:19:24,992
♪ I know that joy comes
in the morning light ♪
1025
01:19:25,026 --> 01:19:28,796
♪ So I march on to a new song ♪
1026
01:19:28,830 --> 01:19:35,369
♪ Cause something's marching
to all unwavering love ♪
1027
01:19:35,403 --> 01:19:38,806
♪ And I move on ♪
1028
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,476
♪ And take no steps every day ♪
1029
01:19:42,511 --> 01:19:49,116
♪ Cause I know there
has got to be another way ♪
1030
01:19:49,151 --> 01:19:52,486
♪ And bright on day, ♪
1031
01:19:52,521 --> 01:19:55,589
♪ So I march on ♪
1032
01:20:16,111 --> 01:20:18,646
[Gwen] Thinking backto how I was or felt
1033
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:20,447
when I started
this whole process
1034
01:20:20,482 --> 01:20:22,049
and how I feel now,
1035
01:20:22,083 --> 01:20:24,318
it's a little bit like
there's a different person.
1036
01:20:24,352 --> 01:20:27,488
It used to be
this soup of confusion
1037
01:20:27,522 --> 01:20:28,756
of "I don't know if it's wrong,"
1038
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:30,925
"I don't know what he..."
"Was I wrong?"
1039
01:20:30,959 --> 01:20:32,793
"Was he wrong?"
"Was it even wrong?"
1040
01:20:32,828 --> 01:20:34,295
"Is he a bad person"
"Is he a good person?"
1041
01:20:34,329 --> 01:20:35,229
"Is he nice?" "Is he not?"
1042
01:20:35,263 --> 01:20:36,530
"Is he going to do it again?"
1043
01:20:36,565 --> 01:20:38,799
That's... All those thoughts
were in my head all the time,
1044
01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:41,402
but now I know
that he was wrong,
1045
01:20:41,469 --> 01:20:42,403
and I wasn't.
1046
01:20:43,605 --> 01:20:50,611
[music]
1047
01:21:41,196 --> 01:21:45,666
♪ I thought it was nothing
more than a papercut ♪
1048
01:21:45,700 --> 01:21:48,569
♪ But it ripped me open
like an envelope ♪
1049
01:21:49,704 --> 01:21:52,172
♪ And I thought
I could stand the scars, ♪
1050
01:21:52,207 --> 01:21:57,711
♪ but I found myself
crumpled on the floor ♪
1051
01:21:57,746 --> 01:22:03,284
♪ Being cured
of all your letters with ♪
1052
01:22:03,318 --> 01:22:06,587
♪ I sled the darkness
stains on my soul ♪
1053
01:22:06,621 --> 01:22:09,590
♪ They won't wash away, ♪
1054
01:22:10,926 --> 01:22:15,195
♪ they just only fade ♪
1055
01:22:15,230 --> 01:22:17,298
♪ I let it fade ♪
1056
01:22:17,332 --> 01:22:19,433
♪ I smooth myself out ♪
1057
01:22:19,467 --> 01:22:23,737
♪ Don't let it get under
my skin no more ♪
1058
01:22:23,772 --> 01:22:26,407
♪ I let is fade ♪
1059
01:22:26,441 --> 01:22:32,379
♪ Until there's nothing
left but papercuts ♪
1060
01:22:32,414 --> 01:22:36,583
♪ You thought you had me
shred to pieces ♪
1061
01:22:36,618 --> 01:22:39,787
♪ But I put me
back together now ♪
1062
01:22:40,956 --> 01:22:44,091
♪ Stronger now
I'm good with love ♪
1063
01:22:44,125 --> 01:22:49,196
♪ It's like there's
nothing on me anymore ♪
1064
01:22:49,230 --> 01:22:54,501
♪ Being cured
of all your letters with ♪
1065
01:22:54,536 --> 01:22:58,038
♪ I sled the darkness
stains on my soul ♪
1066
01:22:58,073 --> 01:23:01,275
♪ They won't wash away, ♪
1067
01:23:02,377 --> 01:23:06,747
♪ they just only fade ♪
1068
01:23:06,781 --> 01:23:08,749
♪ I let it fade ♪
1069
01:23:08,783 --> 01:23:10,918
♪ I smooth myself out ♪
1070
01:23:10,952 --> 01:23:15,189
♪ Don't let it get under
my skin no more ♪
1071
01:23:15,223 --> 01:23:17,825
♪ I let is fade ♪
1072
01:23:17,859 --> 01:23:23,764
♪ Until there's nothing
left but papercuts ♪
1073
01:23:23,798 --> 01:23:25,899
♪ I let it fade ♪
1074
01:23:25,934 --> 01:23:28,002
♪ I smooth myself out ♪
1075
01:23:28,036 --> 01:23:32,306
♪ Don't let it get under
my skin no more ♪
1076
01:23:32,340 --> 01:23:34,975
♪ I let is fade ♪
1077
01:23:35,010 --> 01:23:40,414
♪ Until there's nothing
left but papercuts ♪
1078
01:23:40,448 --> 01:23:44,651
♪ I won't let it.
I won't let it ♪
1079
01:23:44,686 --> 01:23:48,922
♪ I won't let it
bring me down again ♪
1080
01:23:48,957 --> 01:23:50,457
♪ I won't let it ♪
1081
01:23:51,059 --> 01:23:53,193
♪ I won't let it ♪
1082
01:23:53,228 --> 01:23:57,965
♪ I won't let it
bring me down again ♪
1083
01:23:57,999 --> 01:24:00,134
♪ I let it fade ♪
1084
01:24:00,168 --> 01:24:02,336
♪ I smooth myself out ♪
1085
01:24:02,370 --> 01:24:06,573
♪ Don't let it get under
my skin no more ♪
1086
01:24:06,608 --> 01:24:09,309
♪ I let is fade ♪
1087
01:24:09,344 --> 01:24:15,182
♪ Until there's nothing
left but papercuts ♪
1088
01:24:15,216 --> 01:24:17,885
♪ I let is fade ♪
1089
01:24:17,919 --> 01:24:23,724
♪ Until there's nothing left
but papercuts ♪
78969
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