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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:08,449 --> 00:01:10,409 Ford: One week ago, New York City... 2 00:01:11,329 --> 00:01:14,050 tottered on the brink of financial default. 3 00:01:15,329 --> 00:01:18,369 The big Metropolitan city has become obsolescent. 4 00:01:20,129 --> 00:01:23,649 Decay and pollution have brought a deterioration 5 00:01:23,809 --> 00:01:25,570 in the quality of urban life. 6 00:01:26,370 --> 00:01:28,369 The financial resources of the city 7 00:01:28,450 --> 00:01:30,529 and the State of New York were exhausted. 8 00:01:31,489 --> 00:01:33,689 Responsibility for New York City's 9 00:01:33,849 --> 00:01:35,290 financial problems 10 00:01:35,810 --> 00:01:38,010 is being left on the front doorstep 11 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:40,529 of the federal government... 12 00:01:40,689 --> 00:01:42,649 and unless the federal government 13 00:01:42,929 --> 00:01:43,889 intervenes, 14 00:01:44,249 --> 00:01:46,169 New York City within a short time, 15 00:01:46,530 --> 00:01:49,250 will no longer be able to pay its bills. 16 00:01:50,049 --> 00:01:51,170 I can tell you... 17 00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:52,690 I can tell you now... 18 00:01:54,370 --> 00:01:56,889 that I am prepared to veto any bill... 19 00:01:56,650 --> 00:02:00,770 that has as its purpose... 20 00:02:00,930 --> 00:02:03,329 a federal bailout of New York City 21 00:02:03,489 --> 00:02:05,409 to prevent a default. 22 00:02:06,169 --> 00:02:07,250 There's an old saying... 23 00:02:08,050 --> 00:02:11,330 the harder you try, the luckier you get... 24 00:02:12,450 --> 00:02:15,769 and I kind of like that definition of luck. 25 00:02:25,249 --> 00:02:26,889 McCormick: Because New York had gone through 26 00:02:27,089 --> 00:02:29,330 one of the most insane white flights, 27 00:02:29,730 --> 00:02:32,369 neighbourhoods which were historically low income, 28 00:02:32,769 --> 00:02:33,850 totally fell apart. 29 00:02:34,329 --> 00:02:36,089 One of the biggest blights would have been 30 00:02:36,249 --> 00:02:37,369 the Lower East Side at that time. 31 00:02:37,729 --> 00:02:40,769 Sante: Landlords were faced with 20 percent, 32 00:02:41,049 --> 00:02:43,609 30 percent, occupancy and at some point or other, 33 00:02:43,730 --> 00:02:46,610 they started figuring out that there wasn't going to be any 34 00:02:46,689 --> 00:02:48,689 new flood of occupants anytime soon, 35 00:02:48,849 --> 00:02:50,970 and they might as well just get the place burned down 36 00:02:51,130 --> 00:02:52,249 for the insurance money. 37 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:54,010 Adler: It was dangerous. 38 00:02:54,369 --> 00:02:56,409 Anything could happen basically. 39 00:02:57,049 --> 00:02:58,690 There was no law. 40 00:02:59,729 --> 00:03:02,329 People were selling drugs right out on the street. 41 00:03:03,009 --> 00:03:05,089 And it was just totally empty, empty, empty, 42 00:03:05,209 --> 00:03:07,329 empty, empty. And quiet. 43 00:03:08,290 --> 00:03:11,169 From my apartment on Saint Marks between 1st and A, 44 00:03:11,489 --> 00:03:13,089 there was a polish bar down the street 45 00:03:13,409 --> 00:03:15,769 uh, where the juke box was just completely stocked 46 00:03:15,810 --> 00:03:17,409 with some Bobby Vinton records. 47 00:03:17,730 --> 00:03:20,289 And, um, when they had the door open on a warm night 48 00:03:20,409 --> 00:03:22,329 you could hear Bobby Vinton all over the streets, 49 00:03:22,449 --> 00:03:23,569 that's how quiet it was. 50 00:03:23,809 --> 00:03:28,209 ♪ I have nobody for my own ♪ 51 00:03:28,449 --> 00:03:30,369 Jazz: The streets were so intimate and so loving, 52 00:03:30,610 --> 00:03:33,049 like, you could just sit on a bench and meet somebody 53 00:03:33,169 --> 00:03:34,769 who you could spend the whole day with, 54 00:03:34,929 --> 00:03:36,209 you didn't even know who they were. 55 00:03:36,569 --> 00:03:41,170 And share really... secrets, intimacies, uh, eat together, 56 00:03:41,330 --> 00:03:42,609 share a joint and then meet others 57 00:03:42,769 --> 00:03:45,809 on the way from one point to another, to the park, 58 00:03:46,009 --> 00:03:47,770 end up at some club or a party. 59 00:03:51,969 --> 00:03:54,210 Nares: I guess the punk thing happened. 60 00:03:54,849 --> 00:03:57,490 There was this very sudden shift, 61 00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:03,010 um, of separation between people who were remaining 62 00:04:03,169 --> 00:04:05,809 in the old school and people that were branching into this, 63 00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:08,569 sort of new, unknown territory. 64 00:04:10,049 --> 00:04:13,569 McCormick: New York's like this insane magnet for people, 65 00:04:13,690 --> 00:04:17,209 for their aspirations and desire to reinvent themselves. 66 00:04:18,210 --> 00:04:20,849 Certainly the poverty, the crime, the danger, the... 67 00:04:20,929 --> 00:04:23,690 all those, uh, seductive aspects that would fit in 68 00:04:23,889 --> 00:04:25,809 with a generation kind of coming of age 69 00:04:25,890 --> 00:04:28,849 with a lot of neolism, the no future generation. 70 00:04:29,409 --> 00:04:33,249 Sante: We wanted turbulence, you know, we wanted risk, 71 00:04:33,730 --> 00:04:35,770 um, we wanted danger, 72 00:04:36,289 --> 00:04:39,729 and we wanted to play to a crowd, frankly. 73 00:04:39,809 --> 00:04:43,329 There were a couple of years, it seemed, when everybody 74 00:04:43,489 --> 00:04:46,369 knew everybody and everybody was doing everything. 75 00:04:46,489 --> 00:04:47,609 Everything came together. 76 00:04:47,809 --> 00:04:48,889 Monforton: Upstairs at the Mudd Club 77 00:04:49,409 --> 00:04:52,409 at the end of the night were filmmakers, artists, 78 00:04:52,729 --> 00:04:54,169 there were musicians 79 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:57,089 and interested in what each other were up to, 80 00:04:57,409 --> 00:04:59,849 uh, finding tremendous overlap. 81 00:05:00,689 --> 00:05:02,930 Sante: Meanwhile the downtown art scene 82 00:05:03,330 --> 00:05:04,929 people were opening themselves up 83 00:05:05,089 --> 00:05:06,369 to other cultures. 84 00:05:07,170 --> 00:05:10,210 Foye: A lot of traditional hierarchies had broken down. 85 00:05:10,529 --> 00:05:11,970 African American cultures, 86 00:05:12,130 --> 00:05:16,090 urban culture was entering into the art world. 87 00:05:17,089 --> 00:05:19,489 Cortez: I mean for forward thinking people 88 00:05:19,889 --> 00:05:21,009 the age of the... 89 00:05:21,369 --> 00:05:23,409 of the white male was already over. 90 00:05:52,609 --> 00:05:54,209 I guess he was always... 91 00:05:56,129 --> 00:05:59,529 around, as we all were from one club to another. 92 00:05:59,729 --> 00:06:01,649 He was definitely everywhere I went, 93 00:06:01,809 --> 00:06:03,410 like he would be there, right. 94 00:06:03,569 --> 00:06:05,649 You know, you'd be at Tier 3, you'd be at CBGB's, 95 00:06:05,729 --> 00:06:09,209 you'd be at Mudd Club, he'd be at all the art openings 96 00:06:09,489 --> 00:06:11,009 and he'd always be quiet. 97 00:06:11,809 --> 00:06:13,729 Jarmusch: And he was striking once you met him, 98 00:06:14,209 --> 00:06:17,410 it's like you knew him, he was... you couldn't... he was indelible. 99 00:06:18,529 --> 00:06:22,049 You and me, and we're walking, a nice little romantic walk. 100 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:24,449 Out of nowhere Jean came running up 101 00:06:24,609 --> 00:06:26,369 and was talking to us and like, 102 00:06:26,529 --> 00:06:29,369 "Hey Jim, hey, oh you're Sara, what are you guys doing here?" 103 00:06:29,729 --> 00:06:32,929 And then he just disappeared and you said something like, 104 00:06:33,089 --> 00:06:34,369 "Well, wow that was strange," 105 00:06:34,809 --> 00:06:36,889 and I said "Yeah, I think ...you know, he's just like that," 106 00:06:37,049 --> 00:06:39,249 and then he came running toward us from having gone 107 00:06:39,329 --> 00:06:42,609 around the block with a large red flower 108 00:06:42,849 --> 00:06:44,769 in his hand that he'd obviously stolen 109 00:06:44,929 --> 00:06:48,209 from some market, and he ran back up to us 110 00:06:48,409 --> 00:06:52,409 and gave you the flower, and he said something like, 111 00:06:52,609 --> 00:06:54,209 "You're beautiful," or something and then whoosh 112 00:06:54,369 --> 00:06:55,329 he was gone again. 113 00:06:55,810 --> 00:06:58,129 But he was always trying to steal all the girls. 114 00:07:00,129 --> 00:07:01,489 Diaz: When I first met him... 115 00:07:02,129 --> 00:07:04,729 I guess just a few months short of 16... 116 00:07:05,729 --> 00:07:09,009 he was living on the street, you know, he'd run away. 117 00:07:09,489 --> 00:07:11,649 The Earl and the Albert, like they were really 118 00:07:11,809 --> 00:07:13,409 sleazed out hotels and he would end up 119 00:07:13,569 --> 00:07:15,649 staying there with God knows who. 120 00:07:17,089 --> 00:07:19,489 He had a great way of expressing himself, so, 121 00:07:19,649 --> 00:07:23,089 he was really language oriented, and I guess I was too. 122 00:07:22,650 --> 00:07:26,369 And we kind of ...kind of connected on that level. 123 00:07:26,530 --> 00:07:28,729 So we came up with this thing, SAMO, you know, 124 00:07:28,929 --> 00:07:30,689 this is the same old shit. I mean, it was... 125 00:07:30,969 --> 00:07:35,729 it was a logo, you know, SAMO, copyright, dot dot dot. 126 00:07:36,289 --> 00:07:38,089 Me being a graffiti artist, I thought 127 00:07:38,289 --> 00:07:41,169 it would be a great idea to start writing it 128 00:07:41,369 --> 00:07:42,369 on the walls. 129 00:07:44,729 --> 00:07:46,849 The first ones were, "SAMO is coming," 130 00:07:47,329 --> 00:07:49,409 or "SAMO 4 U," dot dot dot. 131 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:51,649 Jazz: You would see, like, "SAMO as an antidote 132 00:07:51,769 --> 00:07:52,729 to blah blah blah," 133 00:07:53,409 --> 00:07:55,689 and then you'd see a broken bottle, you'd see... 134 00:07:56,449 --> 00:07:59,569 you know, just the environment of the city around it, 135 00:07:59,809 --> 00:08:03,970 his work was a texture like the crystals in the ground. 136 00:08:04,289 --> 00:08:07,249 I saw his writing on the street 137 00:08:07,569 --> 00:08:11,249 before I ever met him, and I loved them instantly. 138 00:08:11,409 --> 00:08:13,489 One didn't know who SAMO was, but his work 139 00:08:13,729 --> 00:08:16,289 was extraordinarily memorable because frankly, 140 00:08:16,449 --> 00:08:19,129 there was a lot of graffiti around at that time. 141 00:08:19,769 --> 00:08:20,729 Freddy: I remembered... 142 00:08:21,409 --> 00:08:25,009 theVillage Voicepiece on SAMO, which is like incredible, 143 00:08:25,209 --> 00:08:27,449 like you know, for anybody that did anything 144 00:08:27,729 --> 00:08:31,889 connected to graffiti to get any kind of relatively positive 145 00:08:32,129 --> 00:08:33,969 exposure was a revelation. 146 00:08:34,209 --> 00:08:38,489 Diaz: After the Voice article, Jean did actually jump on that. 147 00:08:39,289 --> 00:08:42,129 Decided he wanted to be the face for SAMO. 148 00:08:42,929 --> 00:08:45,649 I was kind of, um, bitter about it. 149 00:08:49,088 --> 00:08:50,689 Scharf: All of a sudden Al was gone 150 00:08:51,009 --> 00:08:53,729 and then I found out they had a falling out... 151 00:08:54,609 --> 00:08:57,329 Jean's not letting Al write SAMO anymore 152 00:08:57,728 --> 00:09:02,129 and I never really understood, um, what that was all about, 153 00:09:02,329 --> 00:09:05,849 but pretty much didn't see Al again after that. 154 00:09:07,009 --> 00:09:09,649 Diaz: He kept it going in a different kind of thing, 155 00:09:09,889 --> 00:09:11,649 he started writing, like, his musings 156 00:09:11,809 --> 00:09:13,249 and these little poems. 157 00:09:13,889 --> 00:09:16,089 Scharf: His work was just ...it was odd, 158 00:09:16,249 --> 00:09:18,369 it was very conceptual, it was very curious, 159 00:09:18,529 --> 00:09:20,289 it was... it was almost alien. 160 00:09:20,529 --> 00:09:21,969 You saw it once and you remembered it. 161 00:09:22,209 --> 00:09:24,409 Monforton: I mean it wasn't, like, your name 162 00:09:24,569 --> 00:09:27,769 or some kind of beautifully crafted piece, 163 00:09:28,089 --> 00:09:29,969 it was, uh, something to consider. 164 00:09:30,049 --> 00:09:32,889 You know you took a minute, you read it... 165 00:09:33,729 --> 00:09:35,729 and you contemplated that. 166 00:09:36,769 --> 00:09:39,169 Jarmusch: "The whole livery line bow like this, 167 00:09:39,729 --> 00:09:42,769 with the big money all crushed into these feet." 168 00:09:44,929 --> 00:09:48,369 Fitzgibbon: You know, plush, safe, I think, you go like... 169 00:09:48,608 --> 00:09:51,289 what the hell is that? 170 00:09:54,049 --> 00:09:55,089 Several of the SAMO quotes 171 00:09:55,569 --> 00:09:58,129 would be attacking kind of people trying to play 172 00:09:58,289 --> 00:10:00,369 the art game with their parents’ money, 173 00:10:00,449 --> 00:10:04,369 exposing people trying to be bohemian 174 00:10:04,569 --> 00:10:05,809 on their parents’ dime, 175 00:10:06,529 --> 00:10:09,729 whereas we were really scuffling and trying to make ends meet. 176 00:10:11,489 --> 00:10:13,969 I had these shows, you know, and film shows 177 00:10:14,049 --> 00:10:16,689 and art exhibitions at 5 Bleeker Store 178 00:10:17,008 --> 00:10:19,089 and suddenly there would be all these, like, 179 00:10:19,169 --> 00:10:23,409 SAMO tags outside. I was like, "Who's doing that?" 180 00:10:26,328 --> 00:10:28,409 Cortez: Not on trains, not in the subways, 181 00:10:28,569 --> 00:10:29,849 not around the town, they were just 182 00:10:30,329 --> 00:10:33,369 specifically close to Soho which was an art neighbourhood. 183 00:10:33,569 --> 00:10:35,489 He just wanted to get attention from the art world 184 00:10:35,648 --> 00:10:39,289 more than the general people on the street. 185 00:10:39,969 --> 00:10:42,209 His approach to the art world, at first was, 186 00:10:42,529 --> 00:10:45,409 he'd be this gadfly. He was adding his asterisk, 187 00:10:45,569 --> 00:10:49,889 you know, he was adding his unanswerable... answer, 188 00:10:50,129 --> 00:10:51,409 you know, um, 189 00:10:51,649 --> 00:10:54,129 and that had to do with his ambition 190 00:10:54,369 --> 00:10:56,729 but also his, kind of, impishness, you know, 191 00:10:57,048 --> 00:11:00,569 um, and also his sense of being an outsider too. 192 00:11:01,409 --> 00:11:05,849 Yes, you saw SAMO, and it was really different 193 00:11:06,049 --> 00:11:07,449 but you were noticing a lot of stuff 194 00:11:07,569 --> 00:11:10,929 so it was part of a conversation happening. 195 00:11:11,929 --> 00:11:14,809 Graffiti had had such a profound impact 196 00:11:14,969 --> 00:11:17,849 on the consciousness of New York, so to be an artist 197 00:11:17,969 --> 00:11:19,809 in New York then, you couldn’t help 198 00:11:20,088 --> 00:11:21,569 but be, uh, informed by it. 199 00:11:22,049 --> 00:11:24,208 Scharf: The graffiti kids, they had a huge impact, 200 00:11:24,409 --> 00:11:25,889 it was a whole worldview, 201 00:11:26,289 --> 00:11:29,329 uh, that I found incredibly inspiring, 202 00:11:29,489 --> 00:11:30,609 I still do. 203 00:11:32,089 --> 00:11:34,329 Freddy: Nothing about graffiti was celebrated. 204 00:11:34,449 --> 00:11:37,529 It was the scourge of the city at that time, it was hated. 205 00:11:37,849 --> 00:11:39,929 I mean it was a blight to a great extend 206 00:11:40,128 --> 00:11:42,009 but there was a lot of creative energy 207 00:11:42,048 --> 00:11:44,969 within that blight, which people didn’t take the time 208 00:11:45,169 --> 00:11:46,369 to look at and examine. 209 00:11:57,209 --> 00:11:59,089 Wait a minute, there's something developing here, 210 00:11:59,168 --> 00:12:01,729 that’s a real creative expressive form. 211 00:12:15,969 --> 00:12:18,528 Freddy: And Lee is just the Leonardo da Vinci 212 00:12:18,689 --> 00:12:20,288 of subway spray-painting. 213 00:12:22,809 --> 00:12:25,009 Well over 100 whole cars. 214 00:12:26,208 --> 00:12:29,049 To paint one of those cars you have to imagine, you know, 215 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:31,449 you have an eight, ten hour window of time 216 00:12:31,569 --> 00:12:33,328 to be able to go to a place, you know, 217 00:12:33,489 --> 00:12:34,968 be very vulnerable for that. 218 00:12:35,329 --> 00:12:37,969 But the results the next day was fantastic. 219 00:12:38,369 --> 00:12:39,849 You know, when that train arrived, 220 00:12:40,048 --> 00:12:41,968 you felt like you arrived with it. 221 00:12:43,809 --> 00:12:47,969 When I met Fab 5 Freddy, he caught up to me in my school, 222 00:12:48,209 --> 00:12:51,809 basically asked the teacher to ask me to step out of the room. 223 00:12:51,969 --> 00:12:52,769 I thought he was a cop, 224 00:12:53,329 --> 00:12:55,489 I thought he was an undercover police officer coming 225 00:12:55,809 --> 00:12:58,209 to apprehend me, you know, he was the first one that 226 00:12:58,369 --> 00:13:01,089 I experienced as a person that came on as a fan. 227 00:13:01,889 --> 00:13:04,289 Fred was very well-versed about the art world 228 00:13:04,409 --> 00:13:07,929 and art movements and he even actually tried 229 00:13:08,089 --> 00:13:10,809 to bring the group into conversations 230 00:13:11,009 --> 00:13:14,049 having to do with reflecting on the arts, 231 00:13:14,169 --> 00:13:15,568 on the outside art world. 232 00:13:16,889 --> 00:13:20,569 I had known about the beginnings of rap music 233 00:13:20,729 --> 00:13:23,769 and DJ culture before any of this was known 234 00:13:23,969 --> 00:13:25,089 as hip-hop, and I thought, 235 00:13:25,369 --> 00:13:28,409 this is a part of a whole cultural picture. 236 00:13:28,689 --> 00:13:31,449 The music, this kind of painting that we're doing 237 00:13:31,649 --> 00:13:34,129 and breakdancing, which would typically go along 238 00:13:34,368 --> 00:13:37,569 with the rap music, I felt was one important thing 239 00:13:37,889 --> 00:13:39,649 that if we could showcase together 240 00:13:39,968 --> 00:13:42,849 and put a frame around it, it would make everything else 241 00:13:43,008 --> 00:13:44,088 we're doing, look good. 242 00:13:44,849 --> 00:13:47,289 It didn’t take long for me to realize, yeah he’s... 243 00:13:47,569 --> 00:13:49,328 he’s trying to make comparisons, you know, 244 00:13:49,409 --> 00:13:52,249 like the Italian futurists were moved by World War I. 245 00:13:52,769 --> 00:13:57,248 You know the horrors of that and the Industrial Revolution. 246 00:14:01,169 --> 00:14:03,168 I mean, you know, the city was burning down, literally. 247 00:14:03,329 --> 00:14:06,608 I remember going to the Bronx and seeing the hues of orange 248 00:14:06,809 --> 00:14:10,489 in the sky and the murder rate was at the highest point ever. 249 00:14:10,689 --> 00:14:12,449 And then to go back into the sanctuary 250 00:14:12,569 --> 00:14:14,169 and the quietness of the subway yards 251 00:14:14,329 --> 00:14:16,728 while hearing the gunshots right outside the subway yards, 252 00:14:16,929 --> 00:14:19,329 somebody's life is ending right now and I'm painting. 253 00:14:20,409 --> 00:14:21,528 It was a weird feeling. 254 00:14:22,368 --> 00:14:23,608 There was a sense of urgency. 255 00:14:23,969 --> 00:14:25,569 We were painting in rapid session 256 00:14:25,729 --> 00:14:27,168 because we didn't want to get killed 257 00:14:27,649 --> 00:14:30,249 and people thought the crime wave was conducive 258 00:14:30,448 --> 00:14:31,889 with what was going on on the trains, 259 00:14:32,049 --> 00:14:33,009 the subway painting. 260 00:14:33,649 --> 00:14:36,208 You know, these young people are opening the floodgates 261 00:14:36,449 --> 00:14:40,768 to a wave of crime, couldn't be... more wrong. 262 00:14:40,929 --> 00:14:42,049 There were no other options 263 00:14:42,169 --> 00:14:43,449 on the plate and if you was 264 00:14:43,488 --> 00:14:45,889 a very creative person and you was immersed 265 00:14:46,049 --> 00:14:48,769 in this... this city that was falling apart, you know, 266 00:14:48,929 --> 00:14:52,528 it was a miracle that we were... we took that vehicle 267 00:14:52,769 --> 00:14:54,969 and we made it into a conceptual work of art. 268 00:14:55,649 --> 00:14:58,968 I knew that I was working with... with other artists 269 00:14:59,089 --> 00:15:01,649 and I was creating art and, uh, 270 00:15:02,049 --> 00:15:04,289 that’s what kept my... my candle lit. 271 00:15:05,409 --> 00:15:07,648 You know, it was a movement for the times... 272 00:15:08,728 --> 00:15:13,169 but I knew that Jean... was not one of the writers. 273 00:15:13,889 --> 00:15:15,968 He was never really a graffiti artist, you know, 274 00:15:16,209 --> 00:15:18,369 I mean, he was not part of the culture, you know. 275 00:15:18,529 --> 00:15:20,289 I mean, there was a way we dressed 276 00:15:20,368 --> 00:15:22,448 or how we spoke, he wasn’t part of that. 277 00:15:22,609 --> 00:15:24,888 Well graffiti, I mean, anyone that's scribbling something 278 00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:26,128 on the wall, it becomes graffiti, 279 00:15:26,369 --> 00:15:28,088 you know, being black, and writing words, 280 00:15:28,208 --> 00:15:29,649 he's tagged as a graffiti artist, 281 00:15:29,809 --> 00:15:32,369 but that was his canvas, you know, he didn't really have 282 00:15:32,448 --> 00:15:34,849 a place to live, so if he wanted to create something 283 00:15:35,009 --> 00:15:37,008 he'd put it outside on the wall, right? 284 00:15:41,488 --> 00:15:42,929 Fitzgibbon: I was coming down Ludlow 285 00:15:43,089 --> 00:15:45,328 and I ran into him and he goes, "Oh, 286 00:15:45,488 --> 00:15:47,248 Coleen, do you have a place to stay?" 287 00:15:47,329 --> 00:15:51,689 and I was like, "Ah, not really but if you want to crash 288 00:15:51,889 --> 00:15:54,209 on our floor, I've got... you know my boyfriend is there," 289 00:15:54,368 --> 00:15:56,409 and he was like, "Oh, you have boyfriend?" 290 00:15:56,929 --> 00:15:59,809 I was like, "Yeah." He goes, "Oh..." 291 00:16:00,448 --> 00:16:02,048 "No thanks," you know. 292 00:16:03,489 --> 00:16:04,769 Monforton: He needed a place to stay 293 00:16:05,009 --> 00:16:08,569 and he was cute, right? And he was also, um, 294 00:16:09,088 --> 00:16:12,928 so charismatic and interesting, that he was magnetic. 295 00:16:13,168 --> 00:16:16,088 It was hard to... not want to be around. 296 00:16:16,448 --> 00:16:19,328 I mean I have vivid memories of us sitting on my stoop. 297 00:16:19,928 --> 00:16:22,528 We would often be sitting there smoking joints, 298 00:16:22,928 --> 00:16:27,089 it was right next door to a... a flat tires fix joint, 299 00:16:27,649 --> 00:16:30,048 a lot of the old signage which was largely, 300 00:16:30,208 --> 00:16:33,529 I think Puerto Ricans and Dominican establishments 301 00:16:33,689 --> 00:16:35,968 in the neighbourhood, there was a lot going on there 302 00:16:36,208 --> 00:16:37,488 in the Puerto Rican culture. 303 00:16:37,809 --> 00:16:41,008 Jorge Brandon, you know, the Teatro Ambulante, 304 00:16:41,409 --> 00:16:47,048 spewed poetry like on a soap box right on the street. 305 00:16:55,649 --> 00:16:57,048 I mean, he would do funny things, 306 00:16:57,169 --> 00:16:59,089 like he would get up and take off, 307 00:16:59,288 --> 00:17:00,729 like he went to the Mudd Club 308 00:17:00,849 --> 00:17:03,088 and danced to like Sex Machine and then came back. 309 00:17:03,488 --> 00:17:05,168 He was famous for going into the bathroom, 310 00:17:05,328 --> 00:17:07,808 the girls bathroom at Club 57 and creating havoc. 311 00:17:08,208 --> 00:17:10,368 Everybody was crazy about him, 312 00:17:10,688 --> 00:17:12,529 you know, I mean it wasn't just me... 313 00:17:13,248 --> 00:17:14,129 everyone. 314 00:17:14,809 --> 00:17:18,649 But I was well aware I was never the only one. 315 00:17:31,328 --> 00:17:35,969 ♪ I'm a young barracuda Swimming in the deep blue sea ♪ 316 00:17:36,568 --> 00:17:37,528 Adler: When I met him, 317 00:17:38,009 --> 00:17:40,889 I went to a club and we partied all night. 318 00:17:41,169 --> 00:17:43,128 - Dancing and stuff... - And dancing, you know, 319 00:17:43,249 --> 00:17:44,609 - which is what we did. - Yeah. 320 00:17:44,889 --> 00:17:47,288 ♪ ...Baby and I’m starved For some of your love ♪ 321 00:17:47,489 --> 00:17:50,168 After leaving, and I was joking around 322 00:17:50,288 --> 00:17:51,808 and I said, "Oh, here's our ride," 323 00:17:52,048 --> 00:17:54,288 and I pretend to open this car door, 324 00:17:54,369 --> 00:17:57,408 real fancy car door, and the door opens, 325 00:17:57,568 --> 00:18:00,448 so I was like, "Oh my gosh," and I closed it right away. 326 00:18:00,688 --> 00:18:03,089 And then these two guys, Italian guys come out at us 327 00:18:03,168 --> 00:18:05,248 and go, "What were you doing in our friend's car?" 328 00:18:05,408 --> 00:18:07,249 And we’re like, "Nothing. Nothing," 329 00:18:07,489 --> 00:18:10,168 and this guy throws me to the ground. 330 00:18:10,488 --> 00:18:12,729 One of the guys, like, did like that with a knife, 331 00:18:12,928 --> 00:18:15,889 like at my stomach, like swung, and I like, you know, 332 00:18:16,088 --> 00:18:17,688 moved back like that. 333 00:18:17,888 --> 00:18:19,808 I remember Jean coming out 334 00:18:20,088 --> 00:18:22,329 and coming upon this scene 335 00:18:22,688 --> 00:18:25,688 and, sort of, going after these guys 336 00:18:25,889 --> 00:18:29,088 and sticking up for us, and then we ran off. 337 00:18:29,248 --> 00:18:30,689 Rosser: Yeah. 338 00:18:32,769 --> 00:18:35,089 People always didn't have a place to stay. 339 00:18:35,329 --> 00:18:37,608 "So, where you staying tonight?" "Well, I don't know," 340 00:18:37,728 --> 00:18:38,848 so, "Well, you can stay here." 341 00:18:39,169 --> 00:18:41,249 I went to bed, so I guess he found a place 342 00:18:41,369 --> 00:18:45,408 to sleep and he slept there and so then he started to stay 343 00:18:45,848 --> 00:18:48,728 from time to time. Alexis was living with me, 344 00:18:48,769 --> 00:18:50,049 and I had a small room in the front, 345 00:18:50,289 --> 00:18:52,048 and she was living with me in that small room, 346 00:18:52,288 --> 00:18:54,368 so Jean would crash in the living room. 347 00:18:54,809 --> 00:18:56,729 You know people would come by, you know, 348 00:18:56,889 --> 00:18:59,769 it was like this fluid thing, my friend Jennifer and stuff. 349 00:19:00,289 --> 00:19:02,209 If I had been out all night I'd ring her bell 350 00:19:02,328 --> 00:19:04,129 maybe four or five o’clock in the morning, 351 00:19:04,289 --> 00:19:07,009 pray to God she'd let me in, and she usually did, 352 00:19:07,088 --> 00:19:08,529 and I would get the couch. 353 00:19:08,608 --> 00:19:09,889 Jean was having issues at home, 354 00:19:10,049 --> 00:19:11,809 Jennifer was having issues at home, 355 00:19:12,288 --> 00:19:15,008 you know, but they could come to my house and we could just 356 00:19:15,168 --> 00:19:16,528 listen to music and hang out, 357 00:19:16,609 --> 00:19:19,168 and no one would be judging them. 358 00:19:21,048 --> 00:19:23,168 Jazz: Jean-Michel took Felice's couch from me, 359 00:19:23,648 --> 00:19:25,368 I felt like that couch was mine 360 00:19:25,409 --> 00:19:27,648 and it led to some rivalry between us. 361 00:19:28,449 --> 00:19:30,209 We would just argue and chase each other 362 00:19:30,368 --> 00:19:32,608 around her apartment, she'd have to separate us. 363 00:19:32,888 --> 00:19:36,568 I think we were actually reliving our own experience 364 00:19:36,728 --> 00:19:38,009 with siblings at home... 365 00:19:38,849 --> 00:19:42,488 something that was very, very warm and familiar 366 00:19:42,608 --> 00:19:44,928 about him to me, like a brother or a cousin 367 00:19:45,088 --> 00:19:48,288 and that's how we worked that out. We loved each other, 368 00:19:48,528 --> 00:19:51,928 I mean we shared everything, clothes, food, money. 369 00:19:52,128 --> 00:19:53,369 We were family. 370 00:20:02,009 --> 00:20:04,248 Rosser: You know Jean loved, like, industrial music, 371 00:20:04,408 --> 00:20:06,328 like, um, you know, Test Dept, 372 00:20:06,448 --> 00:20:08,848 and Einstürzende Neubauten and whatever. 373 00:20:09,248 --> 00:20:11,728 Boom boom, boom boom. 374 00:20:12,288 --> 00:20:14,769 And you know everyone used to carry boomboxes, right, 375 00:20:15,008 --> 00:20:16,208 so, everything else was carrying 376 00:20:16,368 --> 00:20:18,328 The Message or Grandmaster Flash 377 00:20:18,609 --> 00:20:21,688 and Jean was carrying, like, industrial noise. 378 00:20:22,049 --> 00:20:23,648 So he used to come into my building 379 00:20:23,808 --> 00:20:26,528 at three o'clock in the morning to stay there, 380 00:20:26,768 --> 00:20:31,288 blaring this industrial beat box and my super, Mr. Galzavez, 381 00:20:31,488 --> 00:20:33,969 he'd come out and say, "You motherfucker, 382 00:20:34,288 --> 00:20:36,208 turn that shit off, it's three o'clock 383 00:20:36,408 --> 00:20:37,969 in the morning. Fuck you," 384 00:20:38,048 --> 00:20:39,889 and Jean used to say, "Fuck you!" 385 00:20:40,569 --> 00:20:43,768 So, you know, I started to get a little more uptight, you know, 386 00:20:43,928 --> 00:20:46,008 and, uh, with the late-night scenes 387 00:20:46,208 --> 00:20:49,528 and the late-night arguments and it started to become me 388 00:20:49,728 --> 00:20:51,969 and them, you know like me in the back room 389 00:20:52,128 --> 00:20:53,008 and then... 390 00:20:53,568 --> 00:20:56,609 Alexis and Jean, you know, in the front room, 391 00:20:56,768 --> 00:20:59,489 and like Jennifer trying to find a place to be, 392 00:20:59,808 --> 00:21:02,808 so I told Alexis you have to go. 393 00:21:04,289 --> 00:21:06,209 Adler: Felice and I had that argument, 394 00:21:06,448 --> 00:21:10,128 we moved out of the house and... her house 395 00:21:10,288 --> 00:21:11,128 and we didn’t speak 396 00:21:11,808 --> 00:21:13,088 which was huge for us ’cause we always speak. 397 00:21:13,168 --> 00:21:14,928 Rosser: I'd still see Jean everywhere, 398 00:21:15,088 --> 00:21:16,728 I'd still see Alexis everywhere. 399 00:21:16,929 --> 00:21:19,568 We all were going to see the same bands, you know, 400 00:21:19,728 --> 00:21:22,608 and if there’s only like, 40 people in the audience, 401 00:21:22,848 --> 00:21:25,009 you know, and you're like hating someone 402 00:21:25,208 --> 00:21:26,808 who's there, I mean that's no fun, is it? 403 00:21:27,248 --> 00:21:28,569 So, you know, we just... 404 00:21:29,249 --> 00:21:30,888 we just became friends again. 405 00:21:31,169 --> 00:21:34,168 And so I found this gold coat, and I just thought 406 00:21:34,368 --> 00:21:37,489 it was the coolest thing, and I knew she would love it 407 00:21:37,568 --> 00:21:41,248 because anyone would love it. It's a great coat, you know. 408 00:21:41,729 --> 00:21:44,128 You know, I was wearing this gold lamé coat 409 00:21:44,288 --> 00:21:45,888 down the street, feeling really good, 410 00:21:46,048 --> 00:21:47,168 brought it home. 411 00:21:47,649 --> 00:21:50,768 The next morning I wake up and it's painted... 412 00:21:51,488 --> 00:21:54,048 and it's painted really beautifully. 413 00:21:54,288 --> 00:21:55,888 Rosser: Jean had painted all over it. 414 00:21:56,129 --> 00:21:59,009 I was like, "Oh, that's cool," you know, so it was great, 415 00:21:59,248 --> 00:22:01,728 it was like we all three became friends again. 416 00:22:07,968 --> 00:22:10,368 Adler: I found this place on 12th Street... 417 00:22:11,128 --> 00:22:13,528 and it was his first stable home, 418 00:22:13,689 --> 00:22:16,048 the first place he had a key to. 419 00:22:16,448 --> 00:22:20,009 Jean was about 18 and I was about 22. 420 00:22:20,409 --> 00:22:22,329 I never felt that he was my boyfriend 421 00:22:22,488 --> 00:22:25,968 but we did have sex, we enjoyed each other’s company 422 00:22:26,128 --> 00:22:27,568 on a lot of fronts. 423 00:22:30,688 --> 00:22:33,088 He was discovering his own art form, 424 00:22:33,368 --> 00:22:36,448 having this apartment allowed him some possibility 425 00:22:36,608 --> 00:22:38,848 of working on that, developing it. 426 00:22:39,168 --> 00:22:41,848 The walls and floor were his canvas. 427 00:22:43,088 --> 00:22:45,488 In the living room there was this turntable 428 00:22:45,649 --> 00:22:46,768 and his art. 429 00:22:47,968 --> 00:22:49,368 Yeah, I remember him fiddling. 430 00:22:49,728 --> 00:22:50,729 Obviously, I didn't... 431 00:22:51,448 --> 00:22:53,528 you know, it wasn't him with a brush and easel, 432 00:22:53,688 --> 00:22:57,688 it was just him crazy gluing something onto something else. 433 00:22:58,208 --> 00:23:02,048 Jean would be making art the way we'd be smoking pot, 434 00:23:02,168 --> 00:23:03,608 you know we're having conversation, 435 00:23:03,648 --> 00:23:04,608 it was just like... 436 00:23:05,328 --> 00:23:08,048 it was just part of the stream of things that were going on 437 00:23:08,289 --> 00:23:09,249 in that house. 438 00:23:10,848 --> 00:23:12,128 Adler: Anything could be brought up 439 00:23:12,288 --> 00:23:15,128 from the street and take on a life of its own 440 00:23:15,328 --> 00:23:16,768 at the hands of Jean. 441 00:23:16,929 --> 00:23:18,208 They all did that. 442 00:23:18,849 --> 00:23:21,848 You know, I mean, you know, Jean-Michel did that, 443 00:23:22,048 --> 00:23:25,208 Keith was doing that, we were all hauling stuff out 444 00:23:25,528 --> 00:23:27,128 from the trash that was interesting 445 00:23:27,248 --> 00:23:28,608 and modifying it, and doing things to it, 446 00:23:28,768 --> 00:23:31,568 and going into abandon lots and creating little... 447 00:23:32,208 --> 00:23:34,768 ephemeral, kind of installations. 448 00:23:38,528 --> 00:23:40,848 And I guess he was doing all this writing too. 449 00:23:48,768 --> 00:23:51,008 Sante: Jean's writing and my writing at that time 450 00:23:51,168 --> 00:23:52,928 had an awful lot of overlap, 451 00:23:53,048 --> 00:23:54,928 you know, probably ...I don’t know, we were reading 452 00:23:55,008 --> 00:23:56,888 William Burroughs and crime novels, you know. 453 00:23:57,048 --> 00:23:59,288 The important thing about Jean is he’s not just 454 00:23:59,448 --> 00:24:01,688 a great visual artist, he's a great writer, 455 00:24:01,888 --> 00:24:04,929 and the words are as important as the visuals 456 00:24:05,048 --> 00:24:07,448 and this was a period when Jean was, 457 00:24:07,808 --> 00:24:11,008 uh, exploring the words, the writing. 458 00:24:12,728 --> 00:24:17,008 Sante: "Set, desk, Andy talking into red tape recorder on desk. 459 00:24:17,248 --> 00:24:19,888 Institutional drab office with some objects 460 00:24:20,088 --> 00:24:21,648 that indicate home. 461 00:24:22,688 --> 00:24:24,288 I was having cold sweat nightmares 462 00:24:24,448 --> 00:24:27,968 about being chased, so I became an alcoholic 463 00:24:28,288 --> 00:24:29,568 and now I'm an engineer. 464 00:24:30,288 --> 00:24:33,328 I retired at an early age to avoid embarrassment. 465 00:24:33,888 --> 00:24:36,608 Two stops later, I'm plagued by not having any money 466 00:24:36,768 --> 00:24:38,808 to go into diners and spread a rap 467 00:24:38,928 --> 00:24:42,928 as thin as margarine. I become good at petty crime. 468 00:24:43,168 --> 00:24:46,848 Now in the zenith of my life with my television best friends 469 00:24:47,128 --> 00:24:49,368 and six months down on my instalments. 470 00:24:49,968 --> 00:24:53,968 I think back to those times and a smile comes to my face. 471 00:24:54,328 --> 00:24:56,408 I’m scared to look at my x-rays. 472 00:24:56,768 --> 00:24:59,168 Priest: You should never have lived. 473 00:24:59,488 --> 00:25:02,968 Andy: Yeah, maybe not. It’s really hot in here. 474 00:25:03,288 --> 00:25:05,208 You think I can get a ginger ale? 475 00:25:05,408 --> 00:25:07,968 Priest: You really gonna push it aren't you? 476 00:25:08,368 --> 00:25:11,248 Like some fat executive with a big expense account, 477 00:25:11,488 --> 00:25:13,248 eating Rolaids like candy. 478 00:25:13,568 --> 00:25:14,688 Andy: 479 00:25:15,328 --> 00:25:16,368 I'm running out of Brillo 480 00:25:16,848 --> 00:25:18,368 and I don't have any cucumbers left. 481 00:25:18,688 --> 00:25:21,248 Priest: All you can think about is yourself. 482 00:25:21,728 --> 00:25:25,048 Andy: This is my last day alive." 483 00:25:26,048 --> 00:25:27,328 Fade to black. 484 00:25:29,088 --> 00:25:31,008 Sante: This is poetry, you know, 485 00:25:31,168 --> 00:25:33,008 it's kind of got a narrative form, 486 00:25:33,247 --> 00:25:37,088 it resembles crime novels and crime movies, 487 00:25:37,368 --> 00:25:40,848 but he's using it like poetry, he's chopping it up 488 00:25:41,048 --> 00:25:42,488 like Burroughs, you know. 489 00:25:44,528 --> 00:25:47,008 Cortez: You know, they call graffiti artists, writers... 490 00:25:48,088 --> 00:25:49,208 but are they poets? 491 00:25:50,048 --> 00:25:53,808 Yes and no. Are they writers? Yes and no. 492 00:25:54,168 --> 00:25:55,288 It's a different type of writing, 493 00:25:55,648 --> 00:25:58,688 it's more like what we say in the news media 494 00:25:58,848 --> 00:26:01,248 as sound bites, because originally, 495 00:26:01,408 --> 00:26:04,768 they were made for places where trains would go by, 496 00:26:04,928 --> 00:26:06,528 you'd have to see them in a flash, 497 00:26:06,688 --> 00:26:07,968 read them really quickly... 498 00:26:08,608 --> 00:26:11,008 so they had to have a quick eidetic bite. 499 00:26:17,208 --> 00:26:19,288 Quiñones: I was taught by virtue of what the group 500 00:26:19,448 --> 00:26:21,968 and what the movement was that it had to be just for 501 00:26:22,168 --> 00:26:25,848 the enclosed group, but I had exhausted everything 502 00:26:25,968 --> 00:26:27,768 that you could do in the underground, 503 00:26:28,128 --> 00:26:30,808 and I thought it was a time to turn the chapter. 504 00:26:33,528 --> 00:26:34,808 It was the first of its kind, 505 00:26:34,967 --> 00:26:37,168 it was the first full handball court mural, 506 00:26:37,368 --> 00:26:39,448 created by someone from the subways. 507 00:26:39,648 --> 00:26:40,888 I did it on my own, 508 00:26:41,048 --> 00:26:42,848 uh, under the cover of darkness 509 00:26:43,008 --> 00:26:44,888 again in an eight-ten hour window. 510 00:26:45,648 --> 00:26:47,888 The neighbourhood was completely blown away 511 00:26:48,128 --> 00:26:51,168 and the school was totally blown away. 512 00:26:51,488 --> 00:26:53,568 All the students were at those windows 513 00:26:53,728 --> 00:26:54,847 for two to three weeks. 514 00:26:55,568 --> 00:26:59,888 It was such a monumental feat that even other artists 515 00:26:59,968 --> 00:27:01,488 were in awe that it was done. 516 00:27:01,728 --> 00:27:04,447 They felt the vulnerable state that I felt. 517 00:27:04,768 --> 00:27:07,768 How was he able to apply this imagery 518 00:27:07,968 --> 00:27:11,128 with this little bit of time on a non-moving object 519 00:27:11,488 --> 00:27:14,368 in front of everyone’s eyes and I think people needed to go 520 00:27:14,528 --> 00:27:18,208 and do these visitation rights and even Keith was like, 521 00:27:18,328 --> 00:27:19,407 "Wow, how'd you do it?" 522 00:27:19,768 --> 00:27:22,488 I was like, "You just get a ladder." 523 00:27:23,647 --> 00:27:26,768 And that was the point of time where I had arrived 524 00:27:26,928 --> 00:27:27,808 as an artist. 525 00:27:28,408 --> 00:27:31,128 I felt something different from the subways. 526 00:27:31,768 --> 00:27:33,968 The subways are sort of like very intrusive you know, 527 00:27:34,128 --> 00:27:36,687 they came to the audience, but here we are at a wall 528 00:27:36,848 --> 00:27:38,448 where people came to the wall, 529 00:27:38,768 --> 00:27:41,568 and they had to, um, now question themselves 530 00:27:41,728 --> 00:27:44,928 why they were at that wall and what was it that kept them 531 00:27:45,088 --> 00:27:48,448 at that wall, and pretty much instigated thoughts 532 00:27:48,607 --> 00:27:52,888 about art and placement and where should art be. 533 00:27:53,728 --> 00:27:57,288 Uh, this is now the running legs that this movement deserves. 534 00:27:57,968 --> 00:28:00,368 This is my proclamation that this is an art. 535 00:28:00,768 --> 00:28:01,927 This is an art form 536 00:28:02,168 --> 00:28:04,088 and if you’re gonna point fingers at me, 537 00:28:04,408 --> 00:28:05,528 I’ll stay around long enough 538 00:28:06,008 --> 00:28:09,248 to keep the light on for you when you do come to your senses. 539 00:28:11,648 --> 00:28:13,688 Because the art world had no sense 540 00:28:13,847 --> 00:28:14,968 of what was going on. 541 00:28:15,328 --> 00:28:18,728 It wasn’t common to bring out your thoughts about it 542 00:28:18,968 --> 00:28:20,688 because it was such a young movement 543 00:28:20,768 --> 00:28:23,648 and it was so radical and so fleeting. 544 00:28:27,167 --> 00:28:28,927 McCormick: Soho, a lot of those galleries, 545 00:28:29,207 --> 00:28:31,568 kind of, had their stable of artists. 546 00:28:32,128 --> 00:28:36,767 They weren't actively looking for not just... not new artists, 547 00:28:36,928 --> 00:28:38,687 but for a whole different project. 548 00:28:39,488 --> 00:28:42,288 Sante: You know Leo Castelli, Ileana Sonnabend, 549 00:28:42,527 --> 00:28:45,168 you'd pass these places and occasionally, you know, 550 00:28:45,328 --> 00:28:47,928 you might still be interested in some of those old artists, 551 00:28:48,088 --> 00:28:48,728 you know. 552 00:28:49,208 --> 00:28:50,487 Might still want to go see a Rosenquist 553 00:28:50,688 --> 00:28:53,168 or a Rauschenberg show, so you'd go in, 554 00:28:53,408 --> 00:28:55,448 but the galleries just seemed like... 555 00:28:55,648 --> 00:28:57,688 they were like banks or something. 556 00:28:58,167 --> 00:28:59,728 We'd followed this modernist thing, 557 00:28:59,968 --> 00:29:03,248 and Soho kind of left us with minimalism at that point. 558 00:29:03,647 --> 00:29:05,528 Sante: People were making art with index cards 559 00:29:05,687 --> 00:29:10,647 and Polaroid photographs and writing on walls and... 560 00:29:10,848 --> 00:29:13,968 and it did get to be a little academic. 561 00:29:16,368 --> 00:29:17,487 McCormick: It wasn’t just graffiti 562 00:29:17,728 --> 00:29:19,168 that was being ignored by the art world, 563 00:29:19,488 --> 00:29:20,688 but young artists in general. 564 00:29:21,047 --> 00:29:24,248 In many ways, uh, the eruption of graffiti inspired 565 00:29:24,408 --> 00:29:26,967 a lot of younger artists to take control 566 00:29:27,168 --> 00:29:29,048 over that situation on their own terms, 567 00:29:29,248 --> 00:29:32,088 and form their own groups, their own gangs, like COLAB, 568 00:29:32,608 --> 00:29:38,688 which was more, uh, inspired by the ’70s DIY of punk rock. 569 00:29:39,007 --> 00:29:40,288 One, two, three, four! 570 00:29:43,808 --> 00:29:46,287 Scharf: We were part of the street, 571 00:29:46,688 --> 00:29:49,248 the street was, what was happening, 572 00:29:49,648 --> 00:29:53,648 so, don’t wait around for some gallery 573 00:29:54,048 --> 00:29:56,128 to show interest in you, just do it. 574 00:29:58,328 --> 00:30:02,648 Fitzgibbon: COLAB was this group of 40 to 60 downtown artists 575 00:30:02,808 --> 00:30:04,247 all around the same age, 576 00:30:04,368 --> 00:30:05,487 and everybody wanted to do something 577 00:30:05,568 --> 00:30:07,608 as a group, have shows, have magazines, 578 00:30:07,768 --> 00:30:09,968 have live cable television shows. 579 00:30:10,967 --> 00:30:12,848 People were like really sort of angry 580 00:30:13,008 --> 00:30:15,728 at the galleries and the establishment of the art 581 00:30:15,968 --> 00:30:17,888 so because of that we sort of went, 582 00:30:18,168 --> 00:30:19,568 okay well, we'll do this collective 583 00:30:19,928 --> 00:30:23,008 and we'll show ourselves and we'll show other people 584 00:30:23,168 --> 00:30:24,208 that don’t get shown. 585 00:30:24,928 --> 00:30:28,608 We didn’t have to wait to be appointed or anointed 586 00:30:28,848 --> 00:30:32,208 to be in the art world, we could just be the art world. 587 00:30:36,607 --> 00:30:38,608 The artists wanted to make something that 588 00:30:38,768 --> 00:30:42,968 was a statement politically about the time of being, 589 00:30:43,168 --> 00:30:46,207 sort of, everyone who was disenfranchised. 590 00:30:46,528 --> 00:30:47,727 Soho could have the old left 591 00:30:47,928 --> 00:30:50,128 and you could have Lucy Lippard and Hans Haacke, 592 00:30:50,207 --> 00:30:51,688 and people like that getting together 593 00:30:51,968 --> 00:30:54,847 and talking about their field trips to Nicaragua 594 00:30:55,167 --> 00:30:59,648 and the march of, kind of, uh, Imperial America. 595 00:31:00,288 --> 00:31:02,048 The rest of us were kind of going 596 00:31:02,368 --> 00:31:04,968 but I just stepped over a body to get here, 597 00:31:05,248 --> 00:31:07,008 where is the actual address 598 00:31:07,128 --> 00:31:09,048 about what's going on in New York. 599 00:31:09,488 --> 00:31:12,528 They kind of just went forward with their ideologies 600 00:31:12,608 --> 00:31:14,408 or projects and their aesthetics, 601 00:31:14,928 --> 00:31:19,248 but they couldn’t quite fathom the real slippage, uh, 602 00:31:19,488 --> 00:31:21,887 in terms of cultural traction that was happening. 603 00:31:23,168 --> 00:31:26,168 Sante: The immediacy of the art that was going on downtown, 604 00:31:26,368 --> 00:31:30,527 the... you know, the COLAB stuff, all their theme shows, 605 00:31:30,687 --> 00:31:31,968 that was alive. 606 00:31:33,888 --> 00:31:35,968 Fitzgibbon: Diego said I want to do this Batman show, 607 00:31:36,128 --> 00:31:38,848 he had a lot of people come and bring Batman stuff. 608 00:31:39,248 --> 00:31:41,848 There was this little kid and he had all these like 609 00:31:42,047 --> 00:31:46,608 really tiny like little drawings and they were really great, 610 00:31:46,928 --> 00:31:49,207 very like... stick figures and I think 611 00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:52,607 that's when Jean-Michel really started coming in more 612 00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:53,727 to look at the art. 613 00:31:54,208 --> 00:31:55,887 He would just come in and look at the artwork 614 00:31:55,968 --> 00:31:58,568 and then asked me questions about, "Who did this, 615 00:31:58,767 --> 00:31:59,607 who did that?" 616 00:32:00,368 --> 00:32:02,848 You could tell he was like, "This is good, this is not." 617 00:32:03,088 --> 00:32:05,568 You know, like, really well informed, right? 618 00:32:05,728 --> 00:32:08,888 Knew his history, knew his political history... 619 00:32:09,727 --> 00:32:13,088 and it's interesting that he didn’t bring in any drawings 620 00:32:13,248 --> 00:32:15,647 for it, because it was... the shows were open, right, 621 00:32:15,807 --> 00:32:19,927 he could’ve brought stuff in to any of those shows. 622 00:32:20,207 --> 00:32:22,487 I think also Jean-Michel, saw like yes, 623 00:32:22,688 --> 00:32:25,007 it's very political, but also these people are not 624 00:32:25,087 --> 00:32:27,128 making any money, and they're not getting anywhere, 625 00:32:27,248 --> 00:32:28,088 right? 626 00:32:28,847 --> 00:32:31,328 ♪ ...Thumping into my gut Soldier soldier... ♪ 627 00:32:31,488 --> 00:32:33,568 McCormick: One of the first really powerful, 628 00:32:33,727 --> 00:32:38,967 important gestures COLAB created was in 1979. 629 00:32:39,448 --> 00:32:42,687 They took over a building on the south side 630 00:32:42,848 --> 00:32:44,968 of Delancey Street, with the idea that... 631 00:32:45,728 --> 00:32:48,047 why are we dealing with homelessness, 632 00:32:48,287 --> 00:32:51,488 why are we dealing with people not having anything 633 00:32:51,648 --> 00:32:55,727 proper to live and survive in, when we have all these buildings 634 00:32:55,807 --> 00:32:56,448 that are empty? 635 00:32:57,168 --> 00:32:59,088 And the show opened basically, New Year’s Eve... 636 00:32:59,728 --> 00:33:04,047 and come New Year’s Day 1980, the police shut down the show. 637 00:33:04,288 --> 00:33:06,208 There were figures like Joseph Boyce, going, 638 00:33:06,328 --> 00:33:08,727 "No, you cannot do this, you can't shut artists 639 00:33:08,887 --> 00:33:10,328 out of the ability to show their work. 640 00:33:10,767 --> 00:33:13,807 You can't shut down these voices of dissent and activism." 641 00:33:14,008 --> 00:33:16,247 It became a big news story and in many ways 642 00:33:16,407 --> 00:33:18,808 a lot of other artists who weren't as familiar 643 00:33:19,007 --> 00:33:22,167 with what COLAB was trying to do became attracted to them, 644 00:33:22,327 --> 00:33:24,608 to that kind of energy to what they could manifest. 645 00:33:25,248 --> 00:33:27,968 It’s gradually gotten bigger, 646 00:33:28,128 --> 00:33:30,328 but you know, not at a huge scale, 647 00:33:30,527 --> 00:33:34,048 you know the crossover finally got started for COLAB. 648 00:33:36,768 --> 00:33:39,567 Certainly it was not lost on Jean-Michel. 649 00:33:46,047 --> 00:33:47,488 We had, uh, bumped into each other 650 00:33:47,608 --> 00:33:50,167 on the street one day and we just ended up hanging out 651 00:33:50,528 --> 00:33:53,407 for the rest of the day, and dropping some acid 652 00:33:53,528 --> 00:33:55,128 and staying up all night on the street. 653 00:33:55,288 --> 00:33:57,727 At one point, he did turn to me and say that 654 00:33:57,967 --> 00:34:00,368 he knew that he was gonna be very famous. 655 00:34:03,648 --> 00:34:05,407 "I'm gonna be... I'm gonna be a superstar. 656 00:34:05,647 --> 00:34:08,367 I'm gonna be famous. I'm gonna be a famous artist," 657 00:34:08,448 --> 00:34:10,528 and we used to be like, "Okay Jean, you know, cool," 658 00:34:10,648 --> 00:34:11,407 you know. 659 00:34:11,967 --> 00:34:13,727 Sante: Being ambitious in terms of your art 660 00:34:13,887 --> 00:34:15,647 was what we all had in common. 661 00:34:16,047 --> 00:34:17,847 It was sort of about being a rock star 662 00:34:18,048 --> 00:34:19,968 even if you didn't play an instrument. 663 00:34:20,447 --> 00:34:22,687 Basquiat is like, pretty ambitious, right, 664 00:34:22,848 --> 00:34:24,847 I mean, he always would go where somebody 665 00:34:25,048 --> 00:34:27,887 was doing something and want to, sort of be part of it, 666 00:34:28,048 --> 00:34:30,207 without saying he wanted to be part of it. 667 00:34:33,008 --> 00:34:36,207 It is theCanal Zone and it’s happening here and now. 668 00:34:36,367 --> 00:34:38,208 If you're lost, you can find yourself 669 00:34:38,368 --> 00:34:40,207 right here, right now in theCanal Zone. 670 00:34:40,408 --> 00:34:42,127 One day, looking in theVillage Voice, 671 00:34:42,448 --> 00:34:46,288 I noticed this little blurb that was about Fabulous 5. 672 00:34:46,487 --> 00:34:47,968 They would come to your space 673 00:34:48,128 --> 00:34:50,168 and do giant graffiti burners for a fee. 674 00:34:50,207 --> 00:34:51,808 Well, I decided, let me call this guy up, 675 00:34:51,968 --> 00:34:53,568 I'd never met Fab 5 Freddy before, 676 00:34:53,728 --> 00:34:56,608 I called him and we talk about doing events 677 00:34:56,768 --> 00:35:01,128 and projects and what came up was this idea of doing a party 678 00:35:01,568 --> 00:35:05,047 in which we would show the work of the Fab 5, 679 00:35:05,248 --> 00:35:07,968 the graffiti artists, where what would later be called 680 00:35:08,128 --> 00:35:12,128 hip-hop, street, you know, graffiti art world, 681 00:35:12,447 --> 00:35:16,727 would meet the downtown, fine art world of New York. 682 00:35:17,007 --> 00:35:19,088 There was one person that came uninvited 683 00:35:19,327 --> 00:35:21,168 was Jean-Michel Basquiat. 684 00:35:22,368 --> 00:35:24,247 I was well aware of the punk rock scene 685 00:35:24,367 --> 00:35:26,488 at the time and so people that were close to punk 686 00:35:26,687 --> 00:35:29,248 and also new wave were doing interesting things 687 00:35:29,408 --> 00:35:31,448 to themselves visually like with the hair, 688 00:35:31,607 --> 00:35:33,687 and so when I saw Jean-Michel it was clear, like, 689 00:35:33,888 --> 00:35:35,968 he was connected to that sensibility. 690 00:35:36,127 --> 00:35:37,967 That's how I remember, uh, meeting him 691 00:35:38,168 --> 00:35:41,967 at thisCanal Zone, uh, party on Canal Street. 692 00:35:43,007 --> 00:35:45,728 Holman: He shows up, sees these giant pieces 693 00:35:45,887 --> 00:35:48,767 by the Fabulous 5 and says, "I want to do a piece too," 694 00:35:48,927 --> 00:35:52,128 and all of a sudden, we're like, "Woah, this is SAMO." 695 00:35:52,288 --> 00:35:55,887 Everyone knew SAMO's pieces, these genius pieces of poetry, 696 00:35:56,087 --> 00:35:58,487 I mean all these brilliant SAMO tags 697 00:35:58,687 --> 00:35:59,647 and poems. 698 00:36:00,127 --> 00:36:02,087 But nobody knew who it was, it was a mystery. 699 00:36:02,807 --> 00:36:04,888 He understands already at this point that 700 00:36:05,007 --> 00:36:06,167 he wants to be a famous artist, 701 00:36:06,528 --> 00:36:07,967 he already knows how to be a famous artist, 702 00:36:08,127 --> 00:36:11,327 he showed up at that party as part of his to do list 703 00:36:11,488 --> 00:36:12,527 to become a famous artist. 704 00:36:12,687 --> 00:36:14,127 He knew to show up at this party. 705 00:36:14,207 --> 00:36:15,647 And then when he saw the video cameras, 706 00:36:15,767 --> 00:36:17,808 he knew he had to be on video, and this is a time 707 00:36:17,887 --> 00:36:19,967 when we really weren't doing a lot of video interviewing. 708 00:36:20,087 --> 00:36:23,288 SAMO, S-A-M-O, come on, you've seen it on the walls, 709 00:36:23,408 --> 00:36:24,528 especially down in the village. 710 00:36:24,607 --> 00:36:26,527 This gentleman right here is SAMO. 711 00:36:26,848 --> 00:36:29,927 Soon after the interview, you know, I sought Jean out, 712 00:36:30,047 --> 00:36:31,928 because I didn't know who he was, I'd never met him, 713 00:36:31,967 --> 00:36:34,047 never really even said hello to him before the interview. 714 00:36:34,207 --> 00:36:35,807 He goes, "Do you want to start a band?" 715 00:36:35,927 --> 00:36:39,247 And I'm like, "Yeah!" And that's how Gray started. 716 00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:43,448 So the Canal Zone party was super important at the time. 717 00:36:43,647 --> 00:36:46,048 It was the first time that SAMO was revealed, 718 00:36:46,487 --> 00:36:48,928 Jean-Michel and I started our band Gray, 719 00:36:49,407 --> 00:36:52,368 it was also the first time hip-hop was experienced 720 00:36:52,527 --> 00:36:53,647 by the downtown art scene. 721 00:36:54,047 --> 00:36:56,367 You know, so it was people like myself and Fab 5 Freddy 722 00:36:56,567 --> 00:37:00,127 bringing these artists downtown and then rubbing shoulders 723 00:37:00,407 --> 00:37:02,487 with the downtown art scene artists 724 00:37:02,687 --> 00:37:05,367 like Jean-Michel Basquiat and everybody else. 725 00:37:05,727 --> 00:37:08,927 Um, uh, really put... really helped put hip-hop on the map. 726 00:37:09,207 --> 00:37:12,087 ♪ Party people, party people ♪ 727 00:37:12,368 --> 00:37:15,447 ♪ Can y’all get funky? Just hit me ♪ 728 00:37:17,087 --> 00:37:19,248 ♪ Just taste the funk and hit me ♪ 729 00:37:20,608 --> 00:37:22,688 ♪ Just get on down and hit me ♪ 730 00:37:23,888 --> 00:37:26,287 ♪ Bambaataa’s gettin’ So funky, now, hit me ♪ 731 00:37:27,487 --> 00:37:28,607 ♪ Yeah ♪ 732 00:37:29,167 --> 00:37:32,527 As the idea of hip-hop now is becoming a thing 733 00:37:32,727 --> 00:37:34,807 amongst the downtown world, these people 734 00:37:34,967 --> 00:37:36,087 are all partying together. 735 00:37:36,447 --> 00:37:39,167 I had met all the key players in the rap music scene 736 00:37:39,408 --> 00:37:43,087 from the Bronx, Bambaataa, Flash, Grand Wizard Theodore, 737 00:37:43,327 --> 00:37:44,727 Busy Bee and all these guys. 738 00:37:44,927 --> 00:37:48,448 When I curated the exhibit at the Mudd Club, "Beyond Words" 739 00:37:48,527 --> 00:37:50,607 I got a bunch of them to come and perform. 740 00:37:51,127 --> 00:37:55,127 This was like a graffiti based, rooted and inspired exhibit that 741 00:37:55,287 --> 00:37:57,207 I curated in the third floor of the Mudd Club. 742 00:37:57,727 --> 00:38:00,687 And people came out the woodwork and a lot of people were like, 743 00:38:00,767 --> 00:38:02,367 "Oh my God, I love this new energy, 744 00:38:02,527 --> 00:38:03,808 all this new music." 745 00:38:05,048 --> 00:38:08,407 Afrika Bambaataa was excited to come and play for a different 746 00:38:08,567 --> 00:38:11,927 kind of audience, young, white, new-wave, punk rock kids. 747 00:38:12,127 --> 00:38:15,888 Those experiences, Bam says, inspired him 748 00:38:15,967 --> 00:38:18,127 to make "Planet Rock" which is a record that 749 00:38:18,327 --> 00:38:20,607 changed the whole face of dance music. 750 00:38:27,408 --> 00:38:31,567 I was turning Jean on to the, like, early hip-hop party tapes, 751 00:38:31,807 --> 00:38:34,167 this is before rap records really are coming out. 752 00:38:34,487 --> 00:38:38,047 The Cold Crush Brothers, Grandmaster Flash and the guys, 753 00:38:38,207 --> 00:38:40,127 you know, this is from street parties in the Bronx. 754 00:38:40,568 --> 00:38:43,927 We were becoming closer friends and we, you know, 755 00:38:44,087 --> 00:38:46,687 really connected with music, I mean, I'm telling him, 756 00:38:46,847 --> 00:38:49,047 like, hey man, you know this guy Max Roach 757 00:38:49,247 --> 00:38:52,247 who’s this noted drummer from the bebop scene 758 00:38:52,447 --> 00:38:53,407 is my godfather. 759 00:38:54,008 --> 00:38:55,647 I grew up listening to this music all the time, 760 00:38:55,807 --> 00:38:58,527 in fact, I had just brought one of my first jazz records, 761 00:38:58,808 --> 00:39:01,367 "Jazz at Massey Hall" and I'm turning Jean on, 762 00:39:01,527 --> 00:39:04,568 and we're playing this music really loud and dancing 763 00:39:04,767 --> 00:39:06,007 and laughing and making art. 764 00:39:06,488 --> 00:39:09,207 Charlie Parker and Dizzy had been having a little beef 765 00:39:09,327 --> 00:39:11,247 when they played this particular show, 766 00:39:11,647 --> 00:39:14,127 and so Charlie Parker introduces the song, 767 00:39:14,287 --> 00:39:16,127 he goes, "I'd like to play a tune written 768 00:39:16,287 --> 00:39:18,687 by my worthy constituent Mr. Dizzy Gillespie, 769 00:39:18,847 --> 00:39:21,527 I sincerely hope you do enjoy, Salt Peanuts." 770 00:39:22,367 --> 00:39:24,447 When each one of these guys, Charlie Parker 771 00:39:24,608 --> 00:39:26,207 and Dizzy Gillespie takes their solo, 772 00:39:26,367 --> 00:39:28,207 they're playing at blistering speed 773 00:39:28,287 --> 00:39:29,727 each trying to outdo each other. 774 00:39:29,887 --> 00:39:31,007 So it was like 775 00:39:31,127 --> 00:39:32,127 they were having a battle 776 00:39:32,607 --> 00:39:35,007 with their instruments, which I found, like fascinating, 777 00:39:35,168 --> 00:39:37,567 and it was similar to what early rappers 778 00:39:37,727 --> 00:39:39,807 and early DJs, they would battle as well, 779 00:39:39,968 --> 00:39:42,207 like who's the best, like, in their craft, 780 00:39:42,367 --> 00:39:44,767 and I remember explaining that to Jean, 781 00:39:45,007 --> 00:39:46,767 Jean was really excited about those stories, 782 00:39:47,007 --> 00:39:49,247 he was like, "Wow man, tell me more, tell me more." 783 00:39:49,647 --> 00:39:51,967 It must have been not more than a few weeks later, 784 00:39:52,127 --> 00:39:55,167 I went by to visit Jean and he was really absorbing 785 00:39:55,647 --> 00:39:57,087 all of this bebop music. 786 00:40:07,287 --> 00:40:09,807 Obviously Jean was very aware that artists 787 00:40:09,887 --> 00:40:13,687 were gonna be in bands and musicians wanted to make art 788 00:40:13,887 --> 00:40:16,207 and, you know, I mean Jim was in The Del-Byzanteens, 789 00:40:16,448 --> 00:40:19,487 you know, and James Nares was... was in The Contortions. 790 00:40:20,087 --> 00:40:22,807 Nares: The way we made music was the same 791 00:40:22,927 --> 00:40:26,607 as the way we made films, which was just, you know, 792 00:40:26,807 --> 00:40:29,727 pick up the camera and do it, pick up the guitar and do it. 793 00:40:29,887 --> 00:40:32,727 A lot of people were looking for a way out and noise... 794 00:40:33,527 --> 00:40:36,567 and oblivion and drugs... were... 795 00:40:37,367 --> 00:40:39,927 completely in line with everything else we were doing. 796 00:40:40,567 --> 00:40:42,167 O'Brien: I think when I first heard Gray 797 00:40:42,287 --> 00:40:44,288 they were still called Test Pattern. 798 00:40:44,927 --> 00:40:48,128 It had this sort of quiet at the center of it... 799 00:40:49,247 --> 00:40:51,647 in the same way that, like Miles Davis' 800 00:40:51,807 --> 00:40:54,207 like earliest electric stuff did. 801 00:40:54,367 --> 00:40:56,407 It just seemed really futuristic... 802 00:40:57,247 --> 00:40:59,247 and homemade at the same time. 803 00:40:59,967 --> 00:41:02,087 It just had a free jazz feel. 804 00:41:03,247 --> 00:41:05,167 Holman: Jean was clearly the leader of the band, 805 00:41:05,247 --> 00:41:07,807 and again keep in mind, I'm like five years older 806 00:41:07,967 --> 00:41:09,527 than he is, right. I mean I’m supposed to be 807 00:41:09,567 --> 00:41:12,167 the wiser one. I mean no, that's not the case. 808 00:41:12,287 --> 00:41:14,127 It was certainly democratic in that, you know, 809 00:41:14,287 --> 00:41:16,567 the way we wrote music, and in many other things. 810 00:41:16,767 --> 00:41:20,127 I actually was in charge of our stage set and design. 811 00:41:20,287 --> 00:41:21,927 I saw them play a bunch of places, 812 00:41:22,047 --> 00:41:23,287 like one university 813 00:41:23,487 --> 00:41:26,047 and Mudd Club was kind of the most memorable 814 00:41:26,207 --> 00:41:28,767 ’cause they actually built like a crazy, sort of, 815 00:41:28,927 --> 00:41:30,927 Russian constructivist set. 816 00:41:32,287 --> 00:41:36,527 Freddy: I remember they built this like metal frame on stage 817 00:41:36,727 --> 00:41:39,447 and Jean I think was in a box and he came up 818 00:41:39,607 --> 00:41:40,607 out of this box and... 819 00:41:40,847 --> 00:41:43,567 Holman: I had this idea to... 820 00:41:44,407 --> 00:41:48,527 create this ignorant geodesic dome, 821 00:41:48,727 --> 00:41:51,327 made out of scaffolding and lumber and garbage, 822 00:41:51,487 --> 00:41:53,407 in which I put all my drums and me. 823 00:41:53,647 --> 00:41:56,047 And all you could see from the audience was my head. 824 00:41:56,247 --> 00:41:59,407 Above me, Wayne Clifford and Vince Gallo, 825 00:41:59,607 --> 00:42:03,567 strapped in at 45 degree angles inside this jungle gym. 826 00:42:03,767 --> 00:42:07,287 And then Nick Taylor is so high up in the set design, 827 00:42:07,487 --> 00:42:09,887 all you could see was him from the knees down. 828 00:42:10,167 --> 00:42:13,527 Jean shows up at sound check and the thing's built. 829 00:42:13,807 --> 00:42:15,567 He turns around and walks right out. 830 00:42:15,807 --> 00:42:19,207 Five minutes later, Jean returns with this shipping crate 831 00:42:19,407 --> 00:42:22,127 with Chinese characters written on it, walks up to the stage, 832 00:42:22,367 --> 00:42:25,647 tosses this wooden cube onto the stage, 833 00:42:25,887 --> 00:42:28,767 Jean scrunches his body up and squeezes his body 834 00:42:28,887 --> 00:42:32,087 into this cube, he pulls his little wasp synthesizer 835 00:42:32,127 --> 00:42:36,247 in with him, and his clarinet and looks out at me and smiles. 836 00:42:36,447 --> 00:42:39,647 And I realized that in five minutes, 837 00:42:40,367 --> 00:42:42,127 without knowing what we were doing, 838 00:42:42,527 --> 00:42:46,007 he goes out into the streets, into the alleys 839 00:42:46,167 --> 00:42:50,007 around the Mudd Club and finds this wooden crate... 840 00:42:50,767 --> 00:42:55,126 that not only works perfectly with the design... 841 00:42:55,806 --> 00:42:59,127 but has made him the centre of attention. 842 00:43:00,127 --> 00:43:03,887 And I was like, "You motherfucker." 843 00:43:05,247 --> 00:43:06,967 Freddy: I remember David Byrne being there, 844 00:43:07,087 --> 00:43:09,047 and Chris and Debbie Harry from Blondie, 845 00:43:09,207 --> 00:43:11,887 it was like people came out the woodwork to see them play, 846 00:43:11,967 --> 00:43:13,407 it was really exciting. 847 00:43:16,367 --> 00:43:19,247 The Mudd Club was incredible. 848 00:43:20,607 --> 00:43:21,927 And I think that’s where the art world 849 00:43:22,487 --> 00:43:25,207 got its running legs, you know, there was a whole new attitude 850 00:43:25,527 --> 00:43:28,087 and atmosphere being ushered into the art world 851 00:43:28,247 --> 00:43:29,327 via through those clubs. 852 00:43:29,887 --> 00:43:33,087 McCormick: If we think 1979, 1980, you have two clubs 853 00:43:33,247 --> 00:43:35,327 in particular that aren't just places 854 00:43:35,487 --> 00:43:38,207 where artists go, they're kind of clubhouses. 855 00:43:38,687 --> 00:43:41,206 And they come up with a, kind of, groupthink, 856 00:43:41,367 --> 00:43:42,487 in their own way. 857 00:43:42,846 --> 00:43:44,366 One would be Club 57 858 00:43:44,447 --> 00:43:45,967 and the other would be the Mudd Club. 859 00:43:53,087 --> 00:43:54,287 McCormick: They're quite similar, 860 00:43:54,767 --> 00:43:58,687 and quite different. Club 57 was, okay we're gonna create 861 00:43:58,847 --> 00:44:00,367 a miniature golf course... 862 00:44:01,087 --> 00:44:04,447 in the bar and then we're gonna give it a reggae theme 863 00:44:04,727 --> 00:44:06,487 and it will be the putt-putt golf course. 864 00:44:08,607 --> 00:44:10,727 Scharf: It was an incredibly exciting space, 865 00:44:10,927 --> 00:44:13,487 every single night was a completely different theme. 866 00:44:13,567 --> 00:44:15,807 ♪ Can I have a taste of your ice cream? ♪ 867 00:44:15,967 --> 00:44:19,647 The Club 57 regulars, I'd say we were a lot more obnoxious. 868 00:44:19,807 --> 00:44:22,887 We'd be on psychedelics, bouncing around the walls, 869 00:44:23,327 --> 00:44:24,247 screaming. 870 00:44:24,607 --> 00:44:26,967 Even though Jean would hang out there, 871 00:44:27,167 --> 00:44:30,127 I think he had a little like, "You guys are 872 00:44:30,446 --> 00:44:31,567 a little too silly for me." 873 00:44:31,967 --> 00:44:34,207 He didn't really take part in our shenanigans. 874 00:44:34,527 --> 00:44:37,007 ♪ Can I lick the crumbs from your table ♪ 875 00:44:37,166 --> 00:44:37,967 ♪ No ♪ 876 00:44:38,367 --> 00:44:40,607 But eventually, most of the Club 57 kids 877 00:44:40,767 --> 00:44:43,326 were hired to work at... 878 00:44:43,647 --> 00:44:44,566 at the Mudd Club. 879 00:44:44,767 --> 00:44:47,407 ♪ No, mind your own business ♪ 880 00:44:51,087 --> 00:44:54,967 The Mudd Club was cool, it was way hipper, 881 00:44:55,327 --> 00:44:57,726 a lot of great bands played there. 882 00:44:58,447 --> 00:45:00,687 Quiñones: The B-52s, Talking Heads, 883 00:45:00,766 --> 00:45:03,887 and James White and the Blacks, and all those cats playing, 884 00:45:04,087 --> 00:45:06,807 you know, it’s like, "Oh, whoa, what a smorgasbord 885 00:45:07,007 --> 00:45:08,767 of all these different temperatures." 886 00:45:10,206 --> 00:45:13,007 McCormick: The most, kind of, interesting people 887 00:45:13,167 --> 00:45:14,127 of that generation, 888 00:45:14,527 --> 00:45:16,367 kind of acting the coolest that they could. 889 00:45:19,167 --> 00:45:20,366 You could say the difference was, 890 00:45:20,567 --> 00:45:23,246 everyone at Club 57 was taking mushrooms 891 00:45:23,487 --> 00:45:25,566 and everyone at Mudd Club was taking heroin. 892 00:45:25,846 --> 00:45:27,567 Pot, coke... 893 00:45:28,407 --> 00:45:31,407 Quaaludes. You couldn’t go to the after after after hours 894 00:45:31,606 --> 00:45:34,646 clubs unless you had had some coke somewhere along the line, 895 00:45:34,766 --> 00:45:35,887 I mean... 896 00:45:36,286 --> 00:45:37,847 it was just... it was... 897 00:45:38,527 --> 00:45:39,566 everywhere. 898 00:45:40,926 --> 00:45:42,487 Fitzgibbon: The sort of downsides was... 899 00:45:42,647 --> 00:45:45,046 of running a club is that the Mafia 900 00:45:45,247 --> 00:45:46,207 started moving in. 901 00:45:46,807 --> 00:45:49,207 There was a period where there's lots of free coke 902 00:45:49,407 --> 00:45:51,247 and then suddenly it all disappeared 903 00:45:51,486 --> 00:45:54,207 and then it was replaced by this other white substance, 904 00:45:54,367 --> 00:45:58,206 which they offered for free for, like, maybe a month, 905 00:45:58,366 --> 00:45:59,287 a couple months. 906 00:45:59,807 --> 00:46:04,287 If downtown had been gutted of its economic base 907 00:46:04,607 --> 00:46:06,726 there were hardly any businesses left. 908 00:46:07,126 --> 00:46:08,086 There was one 909 00:46:08,567 --> 00:46:09,687 incredibly lucrative... - 910 00:46:10,207 --> 00:46:13,046 ...uh, thriving business which was cocaine and heroin. 911 00:46:13,207 --> 00:46:15,127 With cocaine, you had a fair amount of denial, 912 00:46:15,287 --> 00:46:18,007 people thinking that it just made them more successful, 913 00:46:18,447 --> 00:46:22,127 and heroin with a whole... well, maybe self-denial, 914 00:46:22,366 --> 00:46:26,367 but a whole lot of, uh, mythologies attached to it. 915 00:46:27,807 --> 00:46:30,407 Jazz: Heroin, heroin, heroin, heroin. 916 00:46:30,606 --> 00:46:32,526 William Burroughs Naked Lunch. 917 00:46:32,767 --> 00:46:36,447 It was definitely considered a rite of passage 918 00:46:36,606 --> 00:46:39,607 for a lot of the young guys who thought it would give them 919 00:46:39,807 --> 00:46:41,087 some type of a... 920 00:46:41,887 --> 00:46:44,846 pathway into a deeper creativity 921 00:46:45,246 --> 00:46:48,127 and there were so many people that people admired 922 00:46:48,286 --> 00:46:53,366 who had done heroin that, it was part of the culture. 923 00:46:55,487 --> 00:46:57,127 McCormick: And it wasn’t just the artists 924 00:46:57,367 --> 00:46:58,487 who were doing drugs. 925 00:46:59,327 --> 00:47:01,325 In our neighbourhood if you like, kind of, stayed up all night 926 00:47:01,326 --> 00:47:03,086 and you were coming home in the early hours 927 00:47:03,167 --> 00:47:04,927 in the morning you would see already 928 00:47:05,087 --> 00:47:08,207 the big heroin spots, lines of town cars 929 00:47:08,407 --> 00:47:10,926 because it was all the Wall Street people 930 00:47:11,007 --> 00:47:14,007 getting their heroin before they went to work. 931 00:47:15,407 --> 00:47:17,327 Jazz: Isolation with a vengeance, 932 00:47:17,486 --> 00:47:18,807 it's like the valley of death. 933 00:47:19,087 --> 00:47:21,807 The paraphernalia associated with it, 934 00:47:21,967 --> 00:47:22,767 it was so medical. 935 00:47:23,487 --> 00:47:24,886 It should’ve been clinically 936 00:47:25,046 --> 00:47:26,607 administered in a hospital setting, 937 00:47:26,686 --> 00:47:28,447 there was no joy to it. 938 00:47:30,686 --> 00:47:34,486 Quiñones: You know I'm still in wonder of why people escape 939 00:47:34,607 --> 00:47:35,807 while they're escaping. 940 00:47:36,927 --> 00:47:40,087 I was very happy to be painting, ’cause I felt like 941 00:47:40,207 --> 00:47:42,487 I was doing something really fantastic. 942 00:47:43,006 --> 00:47:45,567 Why would I want to be in another headspace 943 00:47:45,727 --> 00:47:47,567 to not experience this in its rawness? 944 00:47:47,647 --> 00:47:50,367 It just was very foreign to me, and I saw a lot of lives 945 00:47:50,487 --> 00:47:52,447 being taken right before my eyes. 946 00:47:53,966 --> 00:47:55,886 You know some of these venues were celebrated 947 00:47:55,967 --> 00:47:57,887 because of the drugs that they had inside of them, 948 00:47:58,127 --> 00:47:59,767 and people still remember them to this day, 949 00:48:00,126 --> 00:48:03,007 but when you think about it, they were actually little igloos 950 00:48:03,127 --> 00:48:05,687 where people went and destroyed their lives. 951 00:48:29,086 --> 00:48:30,687 Field: He was intelligent... 952 00:48:31,487 --> 00:48:34,647 you know he came to conclusions based on... 953 00:48:36,287 --> 00:48:39,167 his philosophies, most people don’t have any philosophies, 954 00:48:39,327 --> 00:48:40,687 they're just walking around. 955 00:48:41,807 --> 00:48:45,006 And you know he was thinking up all these angles... 956 00:48:46,047 --> 00:48:46,766 correctly. 957 00:48:47,407 --> 00:48:49,487 He was giving himself these different brands, 958 00:48:49,847 --> 00:48:52,566 "I’m no longer SAMO, SAMO is dead." 959 00:48:55,487 --> 00:48:57,807 And then, you know, when he did the clothes 960 00:48:57,967 --> 00:48:59,406 he called it Man Made. 961 00:49:00,206 --> 00:49:01,046 He was clever. 962 00:49:05,686 --> 00:49:08,247 As he might have said, "I can paint clothes for you, 963 00:49:08,367 --> 00:49:11,127 I could paint on clothes," and I might have said, 964 00:49:11,486 --> 00:49:15,647 "All right, paint on clothes, that sounds like an idea." 965 00:49:16,846 --> 00:49:20,246 Scharf: When Jean had his painted sweatshirts 966 00:49:20,447 --> 00:49:22,527 in the windows of Pat Fields store 967 00:49:22,687 --> 00:49:25,326 on 8th Street and I remember looking at them 968 00:49:25,407 --> 00:49:29,407 going, "Who's gonna buy these?" ’Cause they just looked so... 969 00:49:30,366 --> 00:49:31,246 fucked up. 970 00:49:31,766 --> 00:49:34,167 The aesthetic was so... rough. 971 00:49:34,687 --> 00:49:36,527 I don't know if they sold at the time, 972 00:49:36,887 --> 00:49:38,326 but I do remember the impression 973 00:49:38,447 --> 00:49:39,967 that I had from looking at them. 974 00:49:41,887 --> 00:49:44,126 Field: At that point I had ordered 975 00:49:44,287 --> 00:49:46,046 these paper jumpsuits. 976 00:49:46,647 --> 00:49:48,086 I said, "You could paint on these, 977 00:49:48,287 --> 00:49:50,286 I have... I can get a bunch of these for you." 978 00:49:50,446 --> 00:49:51,967 ♪ ...Baby, jukebox baby... ♪ 979 00:49:52,127 --> 00:49:56,206 I personally found it inspiring... 980 00:49:57,727 --> 00:50:00,607 entertaining, interesting... 981 00:50:01,806 --> 00:50:05,486 and I responded to it because it wasn't, like, 982 00:50:05,646 --> 00:50:07,247 mass-produced stuff. 983 00:50:08,207 --> 00:50:09,527 McCormick: Beyond the gallery system, 984 00:50:09,807 --> 00:50:11,767 artists were looking at other ways of, kind of, 985 00:50:11,966 --> 00:50:14,367 inserting their art into public consciousness. 986 00:50:14,686 --> 00:50:17,966 The shop windows had been this, kind of, other voice 987 00:50:18,126 --> 00:50:20,206 going on in our culture, especially with Bonwit Teller, 988 00:50:20,446 --> 00:50:22,766 where you have Salvador Dali working there 989 00:50:22,926 --> 00:50:24,767 as far back as the ’30s, and certainly 990 00:50:24,927 --> 00:50:28,087 with the early Johns and Rauschenberg through Warhol. 991 00:50:28,607 --> 00:50:34,286 I think what Basquiat understood was the nature of public space. 992 00:50:34,686 --> 00:50:37,326 He was really interested in how he could get his art out 993 00:50:37,527 --> 00:50:39,926 into this public place in a way that, uh, 994 00:50:40,127 --> 00:50:42,487 could have durability and autonomy. 995 00:50:43,167 --> 00:50:45,006 There was another, uh, wonderful artist working 996 00:50:45,087 --> 00:50:46,686 at the same time in the East Village, 997 00:50:47,127 --> 00:50:50,007 Greer Lankton, and she was doing all the windows for Einsteins. 998 00:50:51,486 --> 00:50:53,287 Field: It might have been his suggestion 999 00:50:53,406 --> 00:50:54,967 to have a show in my store, 1000 00:50:55,487 --> 00:50:57,646 but whatever it was, it was a good idea 1001 00:50:57,886 --> 00:50:58,846 and it happened. 1002 00:50:59,327 --> 00:51:01,846 Before he had any gallery or anything like that, 1003 00:51:02,046 --> 00:51:05,886 and he came in with about seven pieces, 1004 00:51:06,327 --> 00:51:09,367 there was a men's suit jacket, then there was a typewriter, 1005 00:51:09,526 --> 00:51:12,566 and there was, I don't know, some other electrical, 1006 00:51:12,767 --> 00:51:15,166 electronic thing. And I said to him, 1007 00:51:15,326 --> 00:51:17,887 "Okay, if people want to buy them, 1008 00:51:18,127 --> 00:51:19,606 how much do you want for them?" 1009 00:51:20,286 --> 00:51:22,846 And he was like, "Well, this one 10,000 1010 00:51:23,006 --> 00:51:25,766 and that one 20,000," and I was like, "Jean-Michel..." 1011 00:51:27,006 --> 00:51:29,886 "I don't think... I think that's a little bit high." 1012 00:51:30,767 --> 00:51:33,806 But he said, "No," and I said, "Fine, you want the 10,000, 1013 00:51:34,047 --> 00:51:36,126 I'll say 10,000, it's your deal." 1014 00:51:40,286 --> 00:51:41,526 But that was Jean-Michel. 1015 00:51:45,526 --> 00:51:48,567 We took the show down, I had somebody working for me 1016 00:51:48,766 --> 00:51:50,966 at the time, and he called Jean-Michel 1017 00:51:51,167 --> 00:51:53,566 and he said, "I'm getting a new apartment 1018 00:51:53,966 --> 00:51:56,046 and if I could have them in my house, 1019 00:51:56,287 --> 00:51:57,887 all my friends can come and see them," 1020 00:51:58,047 --> 00:52:00,846 and so on and so forth, and after two months 1021 00:52:01,006 --> 00:52:04,286 or three months, whatever, he didn't pay his rent. 1022 00:52:05,406 --> 00:52:09,407 They padlocked his apartment and they threw all the contents 1023 00:52:09,567 --> 00:52:10,527 in the dumpster. 1024 00:52:12,686 --> 00:52:13,567 I was like... 1025 00:52:14,846 --> 00:52:15,966 "Oh, my God." 1026 00:52:19,246 --> 00:52:21,686 Monforton: He was at that time into Man Made, 1027 00:52:22,047 --> 00:52:25,607 ’cause he had a coat on that was sort of abstract painted 1028 00:52:25,887 --> 00:52:28,367 and it had Man Made with a copyright. 1029 00:52:31,647 --> 00:52:34,927 He took me one time to Soho because he had postcards 1030 00:52:35,006 --> 00:52:36,167 he wanted to sell. 1031 00:52:38,686 --> 00:52:42,366 Actually me, Keith and Jean were making these colour Xerox, 1032 00:52:42,686 --> 00:52:44,766 um, collages, postcards. 1033 00:52:45,326 --> 00:52:47,246 There was that store, Rocks In Your Head, they had 1034 00:52:47,407 --> 00:52:49,646 my colour Xerox postcards, they had Jean-Michel's. 1035 00:52:52,286 --> 00:52:57,007 Holman: He's really playing a lot with collage and Xeroxing 1036 00:52:57,206 --> 00:52:59,286 and that collage work would oftentimes 1037 00:52:59,446 --> 00:53:01,967 necessitate him going to copy shops 1038 00:53:02,166 --> 00:53:04,407 and that almighty colour copier. 1039 00:53:04,766 --> 00:53:07,646 It was a big part of his visual voice. 1040 00:53:08,846 --> 00:53:10,286 Sante: Xerox machines had been around 1041 00:53:10,447 --> 00:53:12,886 in general circulation since the late ’60s, 1042 00:53:13,047 --> 00:53:17,047 but they were really terrible until around the mid-70s. 1043 00:53:17,206 --> 00:53:21,726 Suddenly they start being able to reproduce on plain paper 1044 00:53:21,886 --> 00:53:23,446 with a fair amount of detail. 1045 00:53:23,767 --> 00:53:25,206 Suddenly xerography made 1046 00:53:25,326 --> 00:53:27,566 the whole band flyer revolution possible, 1047 00:53:27,766 --> 00:53:31,167 and associated forms of art, and zines, you know, 1048 00:53:31,327 --> 00:53:33,686 zines started happening around the same time. 1049 00:53:34,206 --> 00:53:36,766 You know a lot of people were using collage work downtown 1050 00:53:37,006 --> 00:53:40,846 in the... in the punk days, so he was inspired by that. 1051 00:53:42,046 --> 00:53:45,206 Nares: These experiments with the photocopier, 1052 00:53:45,406 --> 00:53:47,326 which became a large part of the paintings, 1053 00:53:47,487 --> 00:53:50,767 when he slaps the photocopied images all over, 1054 00:53:51,006 --> 00:53:52,046 glue them on. 1055 00:53:55,806 --> 00:53:58,686 One time he came in and he said, "Oh, Andy Warhol 1056 00:53:58,846 --> 00:54:01,767 bought one of my postcards," and we were like, "Wow, man, 1057 00:54:01,966 --> 00:54:04,207 that's great." We were so happy for him. 1058 00:54:04,367 --> 00:54:07,087 Scharf: I was like, "What? You actually talked to him, 1059 00:54:07,326 --> 00:54:09,886 and you actually sold something to him?" 1060 00:54:10,206 --> 00:54:12,846 It was like a very pivotal point, 1061 00:54:12,926 --> 00:54:18,246 like you made that connection to, like, our hero. 1062 00:54:21,726 --> 00:54:23,646 Everyone was in some way... 1063 00:54:24,366 --> 00:54:26,806 brought to the city by... 1064 00:54:27,486 --> 00:54:28,927 the kind of visage of their heroes. 1065 00:54:29,366 --> 00:54:31,927 You couldn’t deny that we'd all heard about The Factory 1066 00:54:32,126 --> 00:54:34,606 and we'd all read Andy’s books and things like that. 1067 00:54:34,766 --> 00:54:36,526 This is fundamental to that generation 1068 00:54:36,886 --> 00:54:40,686 because Warhol, by that time, by the art world standards, 1069 00:54:40,847 --> 00:54:45,647 he was so passé and so tacky, he was considered pretty low 1070 00:54:45,806 --> 00:54:47,086 at that point in his career. 1071 00:54:47,326 --> 00:54:50,646 Kenny Scharf and Keith Herring and Jean-Michel Basquiat 1072 00:54:50,806 --> 00:54:52,927 and... and a whole generation of people, 1073 00:54:53,246 --> 00:54:54,806 Andy was still their hero. 1074 00:54:55,006 --> 00:54:58,166 I found Andy Warhol to be like a really exciting artist 1075 00:54:58,286 --> 00:54:59,886 because he worked in these different mediums. 1076 00:54:59,966 --> 00:55:02,806 Andy was surrounded by music and he was working in film 1077 00:55:03,006 --> 00:55:04,766 and doing all these different things that 1078 00:55:04,926 --> 00:55:06,526 I saw that they are interrelated. 1079 00:55:06,686 --> 00:55:09,606 He seemed to be having really a lot of fun and a good time 1080 00:55:09,806 --> 00:55:10,646 while making art. 1081 00:55:11,246 --> 00:55:13,406 Jean-Michel would agree because he was a favourite 1082 00:55:13,566 --> 00:55:15,407 of ours, we'd both talk about all his... 1083 00:55:15,486 --> 00:55:16,767 the things that he was doing. 1084 00:55:17,206 --> 00:55:19,606 He represented... uh, 1085 00:55:20,126 --> 00:55:21,526 what an artist could be. 1086 00:55:21,726 --> 00:55:25,086 The creative process is transferable. 1087 00:55:25,646 --> 00:55:27,327 It doesn't need to be... 1088 00:55:27,887 --> 00:55:29,326 I’m a visual artist... 1089 00:55:30,326 --> 00:55:34,006 she's a writer, he's a musician... 1090 00:55:35,006 --> 00:55:36,046 they make films. 1091 00:55:37,406 --> 00:55:41,366 The creative process, it can cover the whole shebang of it. 1092 00:55:41,646 --> 00:55:44,526 The thing that Jean and I were both in agreement on, 1093 00:55:44,726 --> 00:55:47,767 is, like the Malcolm X quote, "By any means necessary," 1094 00:55:47,926 --> 00:55:50,846 Jean had a copy of that poster I remember at his house 1095 00:55:51,126 --> 00:55:53,406 and I... and I went out and bought one too. 1096 00:55:53,726 --> 00:55:55,727 You know Jean was like, "Yo, whether it's music, 1097 00:55:55,806 --> 00:55:59,167 whether it's acting, film, painting, it's gonna happen, 1098 00:55:59,406 --> 00:56:00,446 we're gonna do whatever," 1099 00:56:00,606 --> 00:56:02,566 and I was like, "Yes, absolutely." 1100 00:56:02,846 --> 00:56:04,686 That was I think... part of that was 1101 00:56:04,886 --> 00:56:06,486 the Warhol influence, that you could work 1102 00:56:06,686 --> 00:56:08,726 in these different mediums and it was all good. 1103 00:56:18,367 --> 00:56:21,726 Hi, and welcome to TVParty, the TV show 1104 00:56:21,886 --> 00:56:23,966 that's a cocktail party but which could be 1105 00:56:24,127 --> 00:56:25,087 a political party. 1106 00:56:26,526 --> 00:56:27,606 Thank you very much. 1107 00:56:27,806 --> 00:56:28,526 Oh! 1108 00:56:28,927 --> 00:56:30,686 There he is, standing in the back, 1109 00:56:31,006 --> 00:56:33,246 Jean de New Orleans. 1110 00:56:39,487 --> 00:56:42,846 Freddy: What had been happening was, um, through both of our 1111 00:56:43,006 --> 00:56:45,086 relationship with Glenn O'Brien, 1112 00:56:45,406 --> 00:56:48,246 Glenn was also one the editors of High Times Magazine 1113 00:56:48,366 --> 00:56:50,446 and Glenn was like, "Hey man, I'm gonna write a story 1114 00:56:50,526 --> 00:56:51,967 about what you guys are doing," 1115 00:56:52,286 --> 00:56:54,366 and that story focused on myself, 1116 00:56:54,606 --> 00:56:55,886 Lee Quiñones and Jean-Michel. 1117 00:56:56,246 --> 00:57:00,126 The issue had just come out and Jean said, "Yeah man, um, 1118 00:57:00,286 --> 00:57:01,806 come by my house tomorrow." 1119 00:57:01,966 --> 00:57:04,766 This was Alexis' apartment that Jean was crashing at. 1120 00:57:04,926 --> 00:57:07,006 It was one of those classic New York things 1121 00:57:07,166 --> 00:57:09,726 where you have to yell up ’cause there’s no doorbell 1122 00:57:09,886 --> 00:57:10,846 working on the building. 1123 00:57:11,446 --> 00:57:14,846 "Yo, Jean, Jean-Michel, SAMO," and Jean woke up. 1124 00:57:15,126 --> 00:57:17,366 He put the key in a sock, and balled it up 1125 00:57:17,526 --> 00:57:18,606 and threw it out. 1126 00:57:19,006 --> 00:57:21,726 He had a few sketchbooks, scribble scrabble, 1127 00:57:21,886 --> 00:57:24,726 paint splattered everywhere, and here's this magazine 1128 00:57:24,846 --> 00:57:27,126 and Jean had a copy and there's photos 1129 00:57:27,286 --> 00:57:30,846 of me and Lee, and talking about what we were doing 1130 00:57:31,006 --> 00:57:33,766 and the scene that we were kind of helping create. 1131 00:57:33,966 --> 00:57:35,926 I was just really excited and Jean was like, "Yeah man, 1132 00:57:36,086 --> 00:57:38,806 it's a good thing, man, but... but it's just one article man, 1133 00:57:38,966 --> 00:57:41,726 it's just one article." I remember going like, "Wow!" 1134 00:57:42,166 --> 00:57:46,446 Like he was so, like, confident that, "Yeah, there'll be more." 1135 00:57:46,526 --> 00:57:48,607 And I remember the thing that really struck me was, 1136 00:57:48,766 --> 00:57:51,446 on the door of the refrigerator it said, "grape jelly," 1137 00:57:51,486 --> 00:57:52,966 He's like, "Yeah man, I just did... 1138 00:57:53,406 --> 00:57:55,286 I just did that man, I think it's still wet." 1139 00:57:55,926 --> 00:57:57,886 And I was like, "Grape jelly?" 1140 00:57:58,046 --> 00:58:00,526 It looked like somebody had literally taken grape jelly 1141 00:58:00,766 --> 00:58:02,446 and smeared it and like smeared it 1142 00:58:02,606 --> 00:58:04,046 with his fingers, it was just so funny. 1143 00:58:04,126 --> 00:58:06,366 It was strange to me because it had nothing to do 1144 00:58:06,526 --> 00:58:08,926 with style, he was like the anti-style. 1145 00:58:09,526 --> 00:58:11,606 And at that time I would never want my work 1146 00:58:11,766 --> 00:58:15,286 to drip and he was like into letting it drip. 1147 00:58:16,086 --> 00:58:18,006 He was into letting art be itself 1148 00:58:18,366 --> 00:58:21,166 and that’s why his work was very, you know, crude 1149 00:58:21,246 --> 00:58:23,806 and maybe childlike in some ways because, you know, 1150 00:58:23,966 --> 00:58:26,206 when a child is drawing, there's no... 1151 00:58:26,526 --> 00:58:29,486 there's no holdings, you know, you're not being held back 1152 00:58:29,686 --> 00:58:31,606 by anything, you're just going by... 1153 00:58:32,886 --> 00:58:33,886 spirit of the moment... 1154 00:58:34,486 --> 00:58:37,166 and that in itself made for speed, rapidness. 1155 00:58:37,326 --> 00:58:38,606 We were painting in rapid session 1156 00:58:38,686 --> 00:58:40,206 because we didn't want to get caught, 1157 00:58:40,366 --> 00:58:42,766 but Jean was doing it because he felt 1158 00:58:43,006 --> 00:58:45,086 and probably knew that he only had a limited amount 1159 00:58:45,246 --> 00:58:47,726 of time and in that urgent moment 1160 00:58:47,806 --> 00:58:49,246 in his life I don't think he knew 1161 00:58:49,406 --> 00:58:51,806 he was gonna die, but I think the passing 1162 00:58:51,926 --> 00:58:54,326 of the moment was very frightening to him. 1163 00:58:55,446 --> 00:58:58,006 To not have an idea to get created, 1164 00:58:58,206 --> 00:59:01,886 you know life and... and art is very fleeting 1165 00:59:02,206 --> 00:59:04,486 and, uh, he was very much afraid of that 1166 00:59:04,766 --> 00:59:06,806 and I think that's what kept his wheels turning 1167 00:59:06,926 --> 00:59:08,285 faster than everybody else. 1168 00:59:10,366 --> 00:59:13,726 Holman: He pretty much abandoned that... that collage style 1169 00:59:14,006 --> 00:59:16,046 at least within the context of the baseball cards, 1170 00:59:16,126 --> 00:59:20,366 Pez cards, to go deeper into a drawing style 1171 00:59:20,606 --> 00:59:24,086 in which now he's going back and incorporating 1172 00:59:24,286 --> 00:59:27,806 figurative work in with this text. 1173 00:59:30,126 --> 00:59:32,406 Kliment: So he was moving from words into something 1174 00:59:32,606 --> 00:59:35,646 that was pictorial and you really see that 1175 00:59:35,926 --> 00:59:37,686 evolution as you look at those things 1176 00:59:37,846 --> 00:59:40,046 on pieces of paper, they seem like they’re writing, 1177 00:59:40,206 --> 00:59:45,206 but, uh, slowly but surely, they're turning into images. 1178 00:59:45,406 --> 00:59:47,686 Sur: I think it’s very interesting, 1179 00:59:47,925 --> 00:59:51,446 his association between language and, you know, media 1180 00:59:51,646 --> 00:59:55,006 and television and radio and what you hear and music, 1181 00:59:55,166 --> 00:59:57,046 and that was all integrated and collaged 1182 00:59:57,206 --> 00:59:59,766 into this visual representation of something. 1183 00:59:59,926 --> 01:00:02,606 Most of his stuff comes from cartoons 1184 01:00:02,766 --> 01:00:06,006 and bad movies and a lot of his stuff 1185 01:00:06,446 --> 01:00:08,526 is kind of spoofing textbooks. 1186 01:00:08,765 --> 01:00:12,446 My chemistry and biology books, he studied those, 1187 01:00:12,726 --> 01:00:15,926 you can definitely see the chemical compounds, 1188 01:00:16,086 --> 01:00:18,326 graphs... and charts. 1189 01:00:19,006 --> 01:00:20,886 Cortez: He always was sampling 1190 01:00:21,086 --> 01:00:24,366 anything with diagrams or... or pictures. 1191 01:00:24,926 --> 01:00:27,806 He would, uh, lift and make them his own. 1192 01:00:28,086 --> 01:00:30,486 The thing about Jean-Michel was taking things 1193 01:00:30,646 --> 01:00:33,366 from everywhere and if they move you, 1194 01:00:33,486 --> 01:00:35,566 they become part of you, and then you can 1195 01:00:35,646 --> 01:00:37,246 put them back out. He's like a filter. 1196 01:00:37,726 --> 01:00:41,366 It was like living in a gallery and it was constantly changing, 1197 01:00:41,566 --> 01:00:44,126 it was always exciting to wake up in the morning 1198 01:00:44,366 --> 01:00:45,486 and see what had happened. 1199 01:00:45,966 --> 01:00:48,846 Jazz: Alexis' refrigerator door was a Basquiat, 1200 01:00:49,085 --> 01:00:52,406 I think her bathroom door was a Basquiat. 1201 01:00:53,006 --> 01:00:57,646 He was definitely developing his language and his symbols. 1202 01:00:57,846 --> 01:01:01,845 It was pretty amazing to see him becoming the artist 1203 01:01:02,006 --> 01:01:03,806 that he... he did become. 1204 01:01:16,766 --> 01:01:19,125 Diego showed me some of his drawings, 1205 01:01:19,486 --> 01:01:24,286 by ’79, like towards the Times Square Show. 1206 01:01:25,206 --> 01:01:27,606 Freddy: Diego Cortez was like a curator 1207 01:01:27,966 --> 01:01:29,406 who had this new wave connection. 1208 01:01:29,565 --> 01:01:32,606 He got it, Diego, so he worked with Jean, I know. 1209 01:01:34,846 --> 01:01:38,246 Cortez: Well, I met him, maybe in 1979 or something. 1210 01:01:39,326 --> 01:01:43,005 He told me about doing graffiti on the streets and uh, 1211 01:01:43,166 --> 01:01:44,605 I never saw the SAMO graffiti 1212 01:01:44,606 --> 01:01:46,446 for months and months and months. 1213 01:01:46,845 --> 01:01:49,886 Finally after knowing him just socially at the Mudd Club, 1214 01:01:50,286 --> 01:01:53,166 I ran into one of those graffiti works, 1215 01:01:53,526 --> 01:01:55,446 then I made a little meeting with him, 1216 01:01:55,646 --> 01:01:57,246 said I wanted to work with him. 1217 01:01:58,966 --> 01:02:00,726 I mean the first time I saw his graffiti, 1218 01:02:01,046 --> 01:02:02,966 I said to him, you know, literally... 1219 01:02:03,126 --> 01:02:05,846 I mean, it's like a scene out of a bad movie, 1220 01:02:06,126 --> 01:02:07,326 I said, "You know, 1221 01:02:07,606 --> 01:02:09,646 you're going to be as big as Andy Warhol." 1222 01:02:11,646 --> 01:02:13,526 Monforton: I think he probably spotted him 1223 01:02:13,725 --> 01:02:17,806 early on as very important and someone to promote 1224 01:02:17,886 --> 01:02:19,006 and watch. 1225 01:02:22,046 --> 01:02:24,766 I think that he probably made the connection 1226 01:02:24,926 --> 01:02:27,086 between Jean and Henry. 1227 01:02:27,926 --> 01:02:31,405 Diego was a pivotal character in all of this, absolutely. 1228 01:02:35,486 --> 01:02:37,566 Diego, you know, it was him that took me 1229 01:02:37,725 --> 01:02:40,605 to the Times Square Show, uh, because he knew the people 1230 01:02:40,766 --> 01:02:42,446 at COLAB that organized the show. 1231 01:02:42,805 --> 01:02:48,726 Do you suffer from agoraphobia? 1232 01:02:49,886 --> 01:02:51,005 So do I. 1233 01:02:51,966 --> 01:02:55,486 To be or not to be, another night around the palace 1234 01:02:55,726 --> 01:02:58,806 of exotic landlordism or going out... 1235 01:02:59,645 --> 01:03:05,726 to the Times Square extravaganza, on 41st Street. 1236 01:03:13,406 --> 01:03:19,166 ♪ There’s a new sun Rising up angry in the sky ♪ 1237 01:03:19,766 --> 01:03:24,726 ♪ There’s a new voice Crying we’re not afraid to die ♪ 1238 01:03:25,246 --> 01:03:28,205 ♪ Let the old world make believe ♪ 1239 01:03:28,446 --> 01:03:30,805 ♪ It’s blind and deaf and dumb ♪ 1240 01:03:31,006 --> 01:03:32,766 Nineteen eighty, there was this big exhibit, 1241 01:03:32,926 --> 01:03:35,486 it was the front-page Village Voice cover story, 1242 01:03:35,966 --> 01:03:38,045 the first radical art show of the ’80s. 1243 01:03:38,686 --> 01:03:41,406 The Times Square Show was kind of the first survey 1244 01:03:41,566 --> 01:03:43,326 of... of the underground. 1245 01:03:44,726 --> 01:03:51,245 It actually opened June 1st, 1980 and it went seven days 1246 01:03:51,406 --> 01:03:56,206 a week, 24 hours a day, in an abandoned massage parlor. 1247 01:03:56,606 --> 01:03:59,605 Well, they called it a massage parlor back then, 1248 01:03:59,806 --> 01:04:01,726 but essentially that was a whorehouse. 1249 01:04:01,966 --> 01:04:02,806 Art everywhere, 1250 01:04:03,285 --> 01:04:06,325 Jane Dickson, a number of other artists were involved. 1251 01:04:06,366 --> 01:04:07,806 Fitzgibbon: There must’ve been 75 artists 1252 01:04:07,965 --> 01:04:10,206 in the show, including performance artists 1253 01:04:10,326 --> 01:04:11,606 and filmmakers. 1254 01:04:12,605 --> 01:04:15,765 Jarmusch: Charlie Ahearn, Freddy Brathwaite and Lee 1255 01:04:15,925 --> 01:04:18,846 came up with the idea to make Charlie Ahearn's film 1256 01:04:19,006 --> 01:04:20,926 Wild Style, while they were hanging out 1257 01:04:21,086 --> 01:04:22,846 at the Times Square Show. 1258 01:04:23,286 --> 01:04:25,566 It starred Lee Quiñones. 1259 01:04:28,766 --> 01:04:30,366 Fitzgibbon: Jeffrey Deitch showed up, 1260 01:04:30,526 --> 01:04:33,246 Barbara Gladstone showed up, Brooke Alexander showed up, 1261 01:04:33,526 --> 01:04:36,566 they were all gallery dealers. A lot of people got started 1262 01:04:36,686 --> 01:04:39,606 in the Times Square Show that basically, 1263 01:04:39,805 --> 01:04:41,326 hadn’t had galleries before. 1264 01:04:41,725 --> 01:04:43,126 And that’s where I met Keith... 1265 01:04:44,206 --> 01:04:44,845 and Kenny. 1266 01:04:45,405 --> 01:04:48,766 About a week after that, that’s when Keith 1267 01:04:49,046 --> 01:04:51,766 started his chalk drawings in the subway. 1268 01:04:52,086 --> 01:04:54,205 So for Keith, that made a huge impact, 1269 01:04:54,485 --> 01:04:56,125 meeting Freddy and Lee. 1270 01:04:57,085 --> 01:04:59,486 Quiñones: Jean made a piece, he had to install something 1271 01:04:59,645 --> 01:05:00,446 on the walls. 1272 01:05:01,086 --> 01:05:05,086 Scharf: I do remember a painting that he just whipped out 1273 01:05:05,246 --> 01:05:07,966 on a wall somewhere and you know, 1274 01:05:08,126 --> 01:05:12,606 like everything he did, it just had this amazing energy 1275 01:05:12,766 --> 01:05:15,565 that would emanate from the lines. 1276 01:05:17,085 --> 01:05:18,366 Jarmusch: I remember a write-up 1277 01:05:18,646 --> 01:05:21,485 in Art in America about the Times Square Show 1278 01:05:21,566 --> 01:05:25,045 and they mentioned SAMO and they were really impressed 1279 01:05:25,205 --> 01:05:27,406 with this painting he had done on the wall. 1280 01:05:31,085 --> 01:05:34,686 He goes yet through another transformation in which, 1281 01:05:35,006 --> 01:05:38,925 now he's using oil stick, using crayon on, uh, 1282 01:05:39,005 --> 01:05:42,406 different forms of art paper, but he’s maintaining 1283 01:05:42,605 --> 01:05:45,166 and holding onto that childlike hand, 1284 01:05:45,526 --> 01:05:48,566 which I think personally, I mean this is just coming from me, 1285 01:05:48,925 --> 01:05:50,366 is... is his signature. 1286 01:05:58,846 --> 01:06:01,446 Freddy: So after the Times Square Show had happened, 1287 01:06:01,726 --> 01:06:04,565 Diego was determined to do his own show 1288 01:06:04,685 --> 01:06:06,765 which would happen a year later, 1289 01:06:06,846 --> 01:06:11,645 called, New York New Wave, which would feature myself, Lee, 1290 01:06:11,805 --> 01:06:13,485 and several other people that had came from 1291 01:06:13,646 --> 01:06:17,526 the subway graffiti world, as well as a lot of photography 1292 01:06:17,845 --> 01:06:20,565 and other paintings, and it was a huge blockbuster 1293 01:06:20,686 --> 01:06:25,365 exhibit. The line was massive to get into this exhibit. 1294 01:06:27,725 --> 01:06:29,645 Nares: The first artwork I saw of his 1295 01:06:30,045 --> 01:06:33,166 was in the show that Diego put together at P.S. 1, 1296 01:06:33,885 --> 01:06:35,005 when it was... 1297 01:06:35,965 --> 01:06:38,525 beginning to become what he did. 1298 01:06:39,166 --> 01:06:42,925 There were shows like little pictures of a car crash. 1299 01:06:44,205 --> 01:06:47,566 Sur: Jean-Michel with his work... 1300 01:06:48,445 --> 01:06:52,125 had an effect on everybody that saw it, 1301 01:06:52,445 --> 01:06:53,886 particularly the artists. 1302 01:06:54,365 --> 01:06:56,446 Nares: The writing, and the visuals, 1303 01:06:56,726 --> 01:06:59,645 he had figured out how to bring it all together. 1304 01:06:59,965 --> 01:07:02,526 I mean we'd already... none of us were surprised, 1305 01:07:03,645 --> 01:07:06,766 I mean he was the one person that all the artists 1306 01:07:06,925 --> 01:07:08,845 were talking about as being really interesting 1307 01:07:09,086 --> 01:07:11,006 and really great and doing all this stuff. 1308 01:07:11,966 --> 01:07:15,646 O'Brien: That’s where the first, you know, big Basquiat publicity 1309 01:07:15,885 --> 01:07:17,966 came from ’cause his stuff looked so great. 1310 01:07:18,686 --> 01:07:21,325 Yeah, that first show was, what... 1311 01:07:22,126 --> 01:07:24,365 put him suddenly into... 1312 01:07:25,485 --> 01:07:26,606 orbit. 1313 01:07:27,486 --> 01:07:31,046 Jarmusch: I remember I saw Jean at an after-party 1314 01:07:31,326 --> 01:07:34,205 and he was sitting at a bar, I remember him saying, 1315 01:07:34,645 --> 01:07:36,845 "What's your next movie, what's your next movie idea, 1316 01:07:36,926 --> 01:07:39,165 what's it gonna be?" And I was like, "I'm not sure, 1317 01:07:39,325 --> 01:07:41,205 I have a few ideas." And he said, 1318 01:07:41,566 --> 01:07:43,486 "If you want to hang out sometime and just talk 1319 01:07:43,646 --> 01:07:45,406 about your ideas or tell them to me, man, 1320 01:07:45,525 --> 01:07:47,445 I'd love that, you know, I love just hearing ideas, 1321 01:07:47,486 --> 01:07:49,445 you know, I'd love to know what you're thinking." 1322 01:07:49,725 --> 01:07:51,485 Said, "Man, maybe you can hang out sometime." 1323 01:07:51,645 --> 01:07:54,965 And then immediately he was... shortly thereafter, 1324 01:07:55,125 --> 01:07:57,165 swarmed by a bunch of people. 1325 01:08:05,405 --> 01:08:10,205 Cortez: From mid 1980 through spring of 1981 1326 01:08:10,366 --> 01:08:13,566 or summer of 1981, his works were mostly small 1327 01:08:14,486 --> 01:08:17,165 and then the work started to be larger. 1328 01:08:23,325 --> 01:08:27,445 Foye: Henry Geldzahler went down to a studio that Jean-Michel had 1329 01:08:27,806 --> 01:08:30,686 just at the entry of the Brooklyn Bridge, 1330 01:08:31,005 --> 01:08:35,005 and he'd made the first painting that he ever made really, 1331 01:08:35,285 --> 01:08:39,125 um, and Henry went to the studio, he saw it, 1332 01:08:39,805 --> 01:08:43,885 he bought it for 500 dollars, brought it home, 1333 01:08:44,126 --> 01:08:46,046 he had it hanging in his apartment 1334 01:08:46,525 --> 01:08:50,525 and he was giving me a lecture that this guy was as good 1335 01:08:50,645 --> 01:08:51,765 as early Rauschenberg. 1336 01:08:52,245 --> 01:08:56,565 Now, I mean, here’s an artist... he’s... it’s his first painting, 1337 01:08:56,766 --> 01:08:58,845 he’s only made it the day before, 1338 01:08:59,125 --> 01:09:01,885 Henry’s already bought it, he’s got a hanging in his house 1339 01:09:02,206 --> 01:09:04,925 next to David Hockney and Ellsworth Kelly 1340 01:09:05,246 --> 01:09:07,765 and Jasper Johns and... and I didn’t argue with him 1341 01:09:07,925 --> 01:09:09,045 because he clearly was. 1342 01:09:09,405 --> 01:09:12,086 You just knew it, I mean Jean just had it. 1343 01:09:13,565 --> 01:09:16,445 And then at a certain point, he just took off 1344 01:09:16,845 --> 01:09:20,125 and you knew he was not coming back. 1345 01:09:24,885 --> 01:09:26,285 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1346 01:09:27,965 --> 01:09:29,405 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1347 01:09:31,166 --> 01:09:32,765 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1348 01:09:34,365 --> 01:09:36,005 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1349 01:09:37,405 --> 01:09:38,846 ♪ Forever ♪ 1350 01:09:43,646 --> 01:09:47,606 I'm so honoured to have known him at all, you know. 1351 01:09:48,205 --> 01:09:50,125 What an example of a real artist, 1352 01:09:50,325 --> 01:09:54,365 a true investigator, of visual ideas 1353 01:09:54,525 --> 01:09:56,286 and language too, for sure, and music. 1354 01:09:56,565 --> 01:09:59,006 ♪ Keep them dreams burnin’ forever ♪ 1355 01:10:02,205 --> 01:10:04,766 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1356 01:10:05,365 --> 01:10:11,445 The first time I saw his work in a museum was, um, accidental. 1357 01:10:12,365 --> 01:10:15,125 And I'm drifting, daydreaming, not really caring 1358 01:10:15,326 --> 01:10:18,206 about the work around me, and the next thing you know 1359 01:10:18,366 --> 01:10:20,845 there's two Basquiat's in this small room, 1360 01:10:21,405 --> 01:10:23,725 and everything starts spinning around me 1361 01:10:23,885 --> 01:10:26,805 and once I got past that shock of seeing 1362 01:10:27,006 --> 01:10:29,166 someone who I considered a dude from the street, 1363 01:10:29,365 --> 01:10:31,445 I realized that I was in the presence 1364 01:10:31,605 --> 01:10:34,365 of the most vivid representation of an era. 1365 01:10:34,845 --> 01:10:36,606 I was really proud of how he disrupted 1366 01:10:36,846 --> 01:10:40,205 the whole damn thing. It was just radical. 1367 01:10:41,365 --> 01:10:43,925 ♪ Forever ♪ 1368 01:10:50,685 --> 01:10:53,085 Rosser: When they talk about Leonardo da Vinci 1369 01:10:53,405 --> 01:10:55,325 and when they talk about Willem de Kooning, 1370 01:10:55,485 --> 01:10:57,085 and when they talk about Jackson Pollock 1371 01:10:57,325 --> 01:10:58,925 and when they talk about Titian, 1372 01:10:59,165 --> 01:11:01,566 and talk about whoever, they will also mention 1373 01:11:01,686 --> 01:11:04,765 Jean-Michel Basquiat and in a world 1374 01:11:04,925 --> 01:11:07,885 where black people are not celebrated or supported, 1375 01:11:08,085 --> 01:11:12,445 the art world, right, he did it, he did it, he blew the roof off 1376 01:11:12,605 --> 01:11:15,165 that sucker and you have to love him, 1377 01:11:15,325 --> 01:11:18,686 the power of that, and the possibilities for you. 1378 01:11:18,846 --> 01:11:22,365 I tell my son always, you know he was like my son, 1379 01:11:22,526 --> 01:11:25,605 he's laughing, funny, joking, you know... 1380 01:11:26,445 --> 01:11:29,325 he's not so different than you, what can you do? 1381 01:11:45,365 --> 01:11:48,205 ♪ Oh, ya keep that flame burnin’ ♪ 1382 01:11:49,205 --> 01:11:50,485 ♪ Mm-hm ♪ 1383 01:11:51,326 --> 01:11:54,045 ♪ Yeah, you gotta keep that flame burnin’ forever baby ♪ 1384 01:11:55,645 --> 01:11:57,325 ♪ Ohh-ho ♪ 1385 01:11:58,165 --> 01:11:59,445 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1386 01:11:59,966 --> 01:12:01,565 ♪ Yeah come on baby keep them dreams burnin’ ♪ 1387 01:12:02,046 --> 01:12:03,325 ♪ Yeah ♪ 1388 01:12:04,605 --> 01:12:06,365 ♪ Forever ♪ 1389 01:12:07,485 --> 01:12:09,325 ♪ And ever ♪ 1390 01:12:10,965 --> 01:12:12,405 ♪ Forever ♪ 1391 01:12:14,045 --> 01:12:15,565 ♪ And ever ♪ 1392 01:12:16,285 --> 01:12:19,925 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1393 01:12:36,245 --> 01:12:38,845 ♪ Yeah it’s the dreams That keep you free baby ♪ 1394 01:12:40,125 --> 01:12:42,125 ♪ Yeah, you gotta make Them dreams come true ♪ 1395 01:12:42,525 --> 01:12:44,686 ♪ Oh, keep them dreams burnin’ baby ♪ 1396 01:12:45,525 --> 01:12:48,126 ♪ Yea-eah keep them Dreams burnin’ forever ♪ 1397 01:12:48,925 --> 01:12:52,245 ♪ Oh, dream baby, dream baby, dream baby, dream baby ♪ 1398 01:12:52,405 --> 01:12:55,765 ♪ Dream baby, dream baby, dream baby-eah ♪ 1399 01:12:55,925 --> 01:12:57,205 ♪ Forever ♪ 1400 01:12:58,805 --> 01:13:00,085 ♪ And ever ♪ 1401 01:13:01,725 --> 01:13:03,445 ♪ Forever ♪ 1402 01:13:05,085 --> 01:13:06,685 ♪ And ever ♪ 1403 01:13:07,445 --> 01:13:12,885 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1404 01:13:34,365 --> 01:13:36,605 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1405 01:13:40,685 --> 01:13:43,485 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1406 01:13:45,245 --> 01:13:49,485 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1407 01:13:52,765 --> 01:13:57,085 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1408 01:13:59,765 --> 01:14:02,645 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1409 01:14:03,165 --> 01:14:05,485 ♪ Yeah I see that smiling face now baby ♪ 1410 01:14:06,485 --> 01:14:08,445 ♪ Yeah you got the idea now ♪ 1411 01:14:09,405 --> 01:14:11,645 ♪ Yeah it’s the dreams you know ♪ 1412 01:14:11,965 --> 01:14:13,725 ♪ Yeah it makes you free baby ♪ 1413 01:14:14,526 --> 01:14:17,645 ♪ Yeah you gotta make it happen You know, yeah I know you are ♪ 1414 01:14:18,165 --> 01:14:19,925 ♪ I see that smile ♪ 1415 01:14:21,485 --> 01:14:22,645 ♪ Oh babe ♪ 1416 01:14:24,285 --> 01:14:27,805 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 1417 01:14:31,925 --> 01:14:34,765 ♪ Dream baby dream ♪ 1418 01:14:37,405 --> 01:14:40,925 ♪ Oh, dream baby dream ♪ 110045

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