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Within NXIVM,
there's a secret sisterhood.
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They have to sign a lifetime
vow of obedience,
3
00:00:14,547 --> 00:00:17,005
and they have to provide blackmail,
4
00:00:17,089 --> 00:00:19,297
and they're branding girls.
5
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I just spoke to India,
6
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and she did admit to being branded.
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She thought it was wonderful.
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I will do whatever I can
to get India out.
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We knew there was
another branding ceremony
10
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that was about to happen,
and it was like
11
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"We have to get this story out
and Frank will report it."
12
00:00:35,923 --> 00:00:38,464
And when he came out with the news,
13
00:00:38,881 --> 00:00:41,381
it set the whole organization
into a panic.
14
00:00:42,339 --> 00:00:45,089
The idea was not just
to expose what was going on.
15
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It was about getting people
away from danger.
16
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This organization has taken my child.
17
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I will do whatever it takes
to get her back.
18
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And... whenever you're ready.
19
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You know, like, here we're doing this,
you know, wonderful,
20
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idealistic movement,
21
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and we're trying to create something,
22
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and we have created something
that just produces value.
23
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Enhances people's lives.
24
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And we're just minding our own
business and doing this great thing,
25
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and we're just being attacked.
26
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So, I just feel determined.
27
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You know, like,
"Motherfucker." You know?
28
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Like, how could they do this to us?
29
00:01:32,381 --> 00:01:34,964
When I think of how
destructive that is,
30
00:01:35,047 --> 00:01:38,089
I think, "Oh, my God.
That is just heinous."
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We're gonna uncover all these things,
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and then people are gonna say,
"Don't fuck with those people,
33
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because, you know,
they'll come after you."
34
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You know? "They will,
they will figure it out.
35
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"They will... They won't let it go.
36
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They're not...
They don't let things slide."
37
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Yeah!
38
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♪ Days we were young ♪
39
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♪ We took photographs ofeverything we could see ♪
40
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♪ We had to run from it ♪
41
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♪ Priest and prophetess ♪
42
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♪ We were nothing we would defy ♪
43
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♪ Oh, invisible skin ♪
44
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♪ Where is the world within ♪
45
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♪ Invincible skin ♪
46
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♪ It's how we all begin ♪
47
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He asks about Albany.
48
00:03:12,005 --> 00:03:15,255
He's like, "Mommy, when are
we going back to Albany?"
49
00:03:17,422 --> 00:03:20,005
- I wanna get down. I wanna get down.
- What about your sweatshirt?
50
00:03:20,089 --> 00:03:21,756
- I wanna get... I want...
- Ooh.
51
00:03:21,839 --> 00:03:24,381
What about your sweatshirt?
You wanna put it on like a cape?
52
00:03:24,464 --> 00:03:25,839
- Yeah.
- Put it on like a cape.
53
00:03:25,923 --> 00:03:28,005
I'm gonna give you this jacket in case.
54
00:03:28,089 --> 00:03:31,798
- Superman!
- Good?
55
00:03:32,464 --> 00:03:34,756
Bye, Troy. Love you!
56
00:03:37,339 --> 00:03:39,047
So I got a call from the police officer
57
00:03:39,130 --> 00:03:41,547
from the financial crimes unit
in Vancouver
58
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saying that they were trying to
get me arrested on three fronts:
59
00:03:45,464 --> 00:03:48,673
fraud, mischief, and theft.
60
00:03:48,756 --> 00:03:52,381
I knew this was coming,
because I'd heard
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00:03:52,464 --> 00:03:55,255
through someone who was
kind of playing both sides
62
00:03:55,339 --> 00:03:57,631
that they were preparing
a legal case against me.
63
00:03:57,714 --> 00:03:59,756
That's when I called Jim,
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00:03:59,839 --> 00:04:03,214
because he was one of
the main leaders of SOP,
65
00:04:03,297 --> 00:04:06,923
and also, I considered him
to be a friend.
66
00:04:18,881 --> 00:04:20,047
Yeah.
67
00:05:07,714 --> 00:05:11,714
Mm-hmm.
68
00:05:51,923 --> 00:05:54,089
I really don't.
69
00:06:12,756 --> 00:06:15,589
I'm not angry at
the people still in. I understand it.
70
00:06:15,673 --> 00:06:18,339
I've been on that side of it.
71
00:06:18,422 --> 00:06:20,881
Jim and a couple other friends
are the ones that, like,
72
00:06:20,964 --> 00:06:23,923
as I'm sitting here,
I'm struggling to...
73
00:06:24,005 --> 00:06:26,339
you know, I, I still feel...
74
00:06:31,673 --> 00:06:34,130
I still feel like
they're my buddies, you know?
75
00:06:34,214 --> 00:06:35,714
And I feel...
76
00:06:35,798 --> 00:06:37,464
You know, I spoke to him and Mark,
77
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you know, almost every other day.
78
00:06:38,964 --> 00:06:41,756
And he showed me
79
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,839
a level of compassion that,
you know, from a guy,
80
00:06:44,923 --> 00:06:47,130
you might even think
is somewhat uncomfortable.
81
00:06:47,214 --> 00:06:48,881
But, you know, he showed me love,
82
00:06:48,964 --> 00:06:52,464
uh, in a way that, you know,
another guy hadn't.
83
00:06:52,547 --> 00:06:53,964
He, he hung in there with me,
84
00:06:54,047 --> 00:06:56,047
and he really helped me,
where I just didn't have
85
00:06:56,130 --> 00:06:57,714
certain skill sets in certain areas,
86
00:06:57,798 --> 00:06:59,673
and he goes, "I know you
to want these things,
87
00:06:59,756 --> 00:07:00,923
"and when you behave like this,
88
00:07:01,005 --> 00:07:02,547
you undermine the things
that you want."
89
00:07:02,631 --> 00:07:04,673
You know, he was the kind
of guy who could tell me that,
90
00:07:04,756 --> 00:07:06,130
much like a brother could.
91
00:07:06,214 --> 00:07:08,506
I think a lot of times, we're doers.
92
00:07:08,589 --> 00:07:11,214
And men, we like to accomplish things.
93
00:07:11,297 --> 00:07:13,255
And sometimes, that gets in the way
94
00:07:13,339 --> 00:07:14,839
of our relationships with each other
95
00:07:14,923 --> 00:07:16,297
and standing up for each other.
96
00:07:16,381 --> 00:07:17,756
And there's nobody that I know
97
00:07:17,839 --> 00:07:19,923
that does that and represents that more
98
00:07:20,005 --> 00:07:21,547
than Keith Raniere.
99
00:07:21,631 --> 00:07:23,714
So, I give you Keith Raniere.
100
00:07:26,673 --> 00:07:30,089
And that's the
hard part of this whole thing.
101
00:07:30,172 --> 00:07:34,172
He's, you know, loyal to Keith,
I think to a fault.
102
00:07:44,714 --> 00:07:47,964
We kept getting
information through people that were
103
00:07:48,047 --> 00:07:49,881
on the inside, straddling things,
104
00:07:49,964 --> 00:07:51,839
that realized things were bad,
but didn't wanna,
105
00:07:51,923 --> 00:07:54,839
y ou know, make a big fuss.
That basically said, you know,
106
00:07:54,923 --> 00:07:57,464
message is the legal dogs
have been released,
107
00:07:57,547 --> 00:08:00,756
and that I am going to be
considered the enemy.
108
00:08:02,589 --> 00:08:04,798
Well, he's gonna find a way to get us.
109
00:08:04,881 --> 00:08:07,464
He has an army of people,
about a hundred strong,
110
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who are so devoted.
111
00:08:10,381 --> 00:08:13,381
They will sell us out.
They will lie about us.
112
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They will make up stuff about us.
113
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They will do everything
they possibly can
114
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to try to convince the world
that we're criminals.
115
00:08:20,631 --> 00:08:22,381
So we're up against not only him,
116
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but all of his agents, as well.
117
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When other people were leaving...
118
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It was like he
didn't want to get contaminated
119
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- by the evil, right?
- Yeah.
120
00:08:33,130 --> 00:08:35,339
At that point,
I trusted Keith completely.
121
00:08:35,422 --> 00:08:37,339
You think they're, like,
the most ethical...
122
00:08:37,422 --> 00:08:40,297
- Completely.
- Noble people in the world.
123
00:08:57,589 --> 00:08:58,923
Hello?
124
00:08:59,005 --> 00:09:01,381
- Hey.
- How's it going?
125
00:09:01,464 --> 00:09:02,964
Good.
126
00:09:14,964 --> 00:09:16,422
Mm-hmm.
127
00:09:26,422 --> 00:09:31,714
Kristin Keeffe was a proctor in ESP.
128
00:09:31,798 --> 00:09:34,089
And she was the legal liaison
for a long time.
129
00:09:34,172 --> 00:09:37,589
In fact, she worked with the
lawyers on all of the lawsuits.
130
00:09:42,798 --> 00:09:46,714
"I'm thinking of sit, like, doing,
like, belts, like martial arts,
131
00:09:46,798 --> 00:09:48,255
but instead of judo, sashes."
132
00:09:48,339 --> 00:09:51,214
And I was like, "Keith,
you can't do that. That's so queer."
133
00:09:51,297 --> 00:09:53,673
But like, that... I remember
that very specifically.
134
00:09:53,756 --> 00:09:55,172
You were like...
135
00:10:01,172 --> 00:10:02,464
Yeah.
136
00:10:02,547 --> 00:10:05,714
She seemed very
close to Keith Raniere, as well.
137
00:10:07,547 --> 00:10:10,214
But then she suddenly just disappeared,
138
00:10:10,297 --> 00:10:12,923
and I didn't know why.
139
00:10:13,005 --> 00:10:15,673
And I found out later she ran,
140
00:10:15,756 --> 00:10:19,464
because she had a baby
with Keith Raniere.
141
00:10:21,172 --> 00:10:23,381
Anywhere in
your body that there's a sensation
142
00:10:23,464 --> 00:10:27,089
that you try to... try to ignore,
or try to suppress,
143
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it just gets stronger and stronger.
144
00:10:29,798 --> 00:10:34,047
And perhaps there are areas in
your body you haven't noticed before.
145
00:10:34,130 --> 00:10:37,381
Like certainly you've noticed
your stomach, at times.
146
00:10:37,464 --> 00:10:40,673
And maybe the sensation
in your stomach now
147
00:10:40,756 --> 00:10:42,881
is changing,
148
00:10:42,964 --> 00:10:46,089
but not going away. Maybe intensifying.
149
00:10:46,172 --> 00:10:49,214
Maybe not. But probably intensifying.
150
00:10:49,297 --> 00:10:51,714
You may even be coming
less comfortable.
151
00:10:51,798 --> 00:10:54,422
But that's okay.
152
00:10:54,506 --> 00:10:57,214
I guess you're not gonna
let me finish my report.
153
00:10:57,297 --> 00:10:59,631
- No, you're almost done.
- I'm, I'm trying to read.
154
00:10:59,714 --> 00:11:02,839
- Yeah, that's okay. You can finish your report.
- Can you... can you stop?
155
00:11:02,923 --> 00:11:06,047
I, I can stop,
and you wanna know what else?
156
00:11:06,130 --> 00:11:07,798
I will stop.
157
00:11:07,881 --> 00:11:09,172
Right.
158
00:11:10,339 --> 00:11:11,547
Sorta.
159
00:11:23,381 --> 00:11:25,255
Right.
160
00:11:26,798 --> 00:11:28,589
Yeah.
161
00:11:29,506 --> 00:11:30,506
Mm-hmm.
162
00:11:37,756 --> 00:11:39,673
What I was told was,
163
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when you officially resign,
164
00:11:42,130 --> 00:11:45,005
give it a few weeks.
She'll reach out to you.
165
00:11:45,089 --> 00:11:47,756
It's fuckin' full espionage shit.
166
00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:49,381
And she does.
167
00:11:49,464 --> 00:11:51,005
And it's burner phones, man.
168
00:11:51,089 --> 00:11:52,923
Fuckin' different numbers every week.
169
00:11:53,005 --> 00:11:56,255
Just fuckin' never know
where she is, and like,
170
00:11:56,339 --> 00:11:58,172
we're talking all the time.
171
00:12:08,297 --> 00:12:10,255
And so that's when she says to me,
172
00:12:10,339 --> 00:12:14,798
"I can help you." And a few days later,
we called Sarah.
173
00:12:35,881 --> 00:12:37,506
Hmm.
174
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:00,673
Clare Bronfman,
heir to the Seagram's fortune,
175
00:13:00,756 --> 00:13:03,673
is the financier of NXIVM.
176
00:13:03,756 --> 00:13:07,005
But when I first came in,
she was a coach.
177
00:13:26,964 --> 00:13:28,673
Right.
178
00:13:30,839 --> 00:13:33,297
But,
she eventually took control of legal.
179
00:13:33,381 --> 00:13:36,089
She's on the executive board.
So she had more and more power,
180
00:13:36,172 --> 00:13:38,631
you know, as the years went on.
181
00:13:38,714 --> 00:13:41,964
At this point, in essence,
she's funding a lot of the lawsuits
182
00:13:42,047 --> 00:13:44,631
against the perceived enemies of ESP.
183
00:13:44,714 --> 00:13:47,714
She was probably told it
was the ethical thing to do.
184
00:14:36,339 --> 00:14:39,005
Okay, so a number of things
were happening
185
00:14:39,089 --> 00:14:43,589
in ESP and the company
that weren't necessarily good.
186
00:14:43,673 --> 00:14:47,047
Did you guys have a chance
to do any research on NXIVM?
187
00:14:47,130 --> 00:14:48,964
This is like Scientology.
188
00:14:49,047 --> 00:14:51,214
It is a cult, where the leader
189
00:14:51,297 --> 00:14:54,547
is keeping people through
fear and dependency
190
00:14:54,631 --> 00:14:56,714
and now, blackmail.
191
00:14:56,798 --> 00:14:58,923
I can't spell NXIVM for the life of me.
192
00:14:59,005 --> 00:15:02,839
ESP has had about
15,000 people go through it.
193
00:15:02,923 --> 00:15:05,464
In terms of permanent members,
194
00:15:05,547 --> 00:15:07,464
it's probably 700 to 800 people.
195
00:15:07,547 --> 00:15:10,589
What happened was,
I was invited into this women's group...
196
00:15:10,673 --> 00:15:12,589
The secret society is called DOS.
197
00:15:12,673 --> 00:15:13,631
DOS. D-O-S.
198
00:15:13,714 --> 00:15:17,547
Dominus obsequious sororium.
199
00:15:17,631 --> 00:15:20,881
Which I believe means "dominant
over submissive" or something like that.
200
00:15:20,964 --> 00:15:24,589
By the way, DOS does not stand
for "dominant over submissive."
201
00:15:24,673 --> 00:15:25,756
I made one error.
202
00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:28,089
That means
"dominant submissive sorority."
203
00:15:28,172 --> 00:15:32,172
I think there are about at least
50 women in this secret society.
204
00:15:32,255 --> 00:15:35,923
You are aware, I'm sure, that my
daughter is a DOS slave at this point.
205
00:15:36,005 --> 00:15:40,130
The girls were branded
in a branding ceremony.
206
00:15:40,214 --> 00:15:44,089
This business was ESP, right?
207
00:15:44,172 --> 00:15:47,631
- N-X-I-V-M?
- Yes.
208
00:15:47,714 --> 00:15:50,547
Just point me in the right
direction. I'm, like, a distraught mom.
209
00:15:50,631 --> 00:15:52,714
I will... I will knock
on anybody's door.
210
00:15:52,798 --> 00:15:55,172
I don't care anymore if I'm prepared,
not prepared.
211
00:15:55,255 --> 00:15:58,422
I've been living with this for
months now. I can't take it.
212
00:16:04,839 --> 00:16:07,756
This morning Sarah contacted
213
00:16:07,839 --> 00:16:10,297
the head of victim services
in Latham, New York.
214
00:16:10,381 --> 00:16:15,297
Uh, she referred Sarah to an
investigator in the police department.
215
00:16:15,381 --> 00:16:20,297
So, Sarah spoke to him and
I'm waiting to hear from her.
216
00:16:23,130 --> 00:16:25,089
- Hey.
- Hi.
217
00:16:25,172 --> 00:16:28,255
I have, uh, Catherine here,
and Bonnie here, as well.
218
00:16:28,339 --> 00:16:29,839
Hi.
219
00:16:29,923 --> 00:16:31,714
Hey, Sarah.
220
00:16:31,798 --> 00:16:33,631
So, the investigator.
221
00:16:33,714 --> 00:16:37,506
- Yeah.
- What was his conclusion so far?
222
00:16:37,589 --> 00:16:40,297
Um, that it's definitely fucked up.
223
00:16:40,381 --> 00:16:43,881
He's not totally sure
where the crimes are. Um...
224
00:16:44,881 --> 00:16:46,047
Yeah.
225
00:16:49,422 --> 00:16:51,798
You look like you need a rest.
226
00:16:53,297 --> 00:16:56,089
I'm sending you love from here.
227
00:16:57,964 --> 00:17:00,172
I feel it. Thank you.
228
00:17:05,589 --> 00:17:08,172
What else can we do?
229
00:17:08,255 --> 00:17:11,255
Speak. I mean, how do you get
230
00:17:11,339 --> 00:17:14,255
law enforcement to move
in this country?
231
00:17:14,339 --> 00:17:17,130
You fuckin' blow it up in the press.
232
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,130
Uh...
233
00:17:39,172 --> 00:17:40,089
Okay.
234
00:17:43,422 --> 00:17:44,381
Twelve years.
235
00:17:44,464 --> 00:17:46,839
I was one of the highest-ranking
236
00:17:46,923 --> 00:17:49,339
male members that's ever defected.
237
00:17:52,964 --> 00:17:55,631
Well, there is no, there is no
good way to leave this organization.
238
00:17:55,714 --> 00:17:59,798
You are usually harassed,
spied on, et cetera, et cetera.
239
00:18:02,547 --> 00:18:04,881
There are members
in our group of people
240
00:18:04,964 --> 00:18:07,297
that have left that have had threats.
241
00:18:07,381 --> 00:18:11,422
Now, we have spoken to law enforcement.
242
00:18:11,506 --> 00:18:13,756
Uh, there is this
Frank Report thing out,
243
00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:16,214
but it's a very marginal website.
244
00:18:16,297 --> 00:18:17,964
And we began thinking, you know,
245
00:18:18,047 --> 00:18:21,255
what needs to happen is
a reputable source
246
00:18:21,339 --> 00:18:23,047
needs to look at this,
247
00:18:23,130 --> 00:18:26,172
and, and I'll tell you,
there's a lot of reading you can do
248
00:18:26,255 --> 00:18:28,047
to understand the larger story.
And in fact,
249
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:32,005
there was an article
in "Forbes" magazine.
250
00:18:34,005 --> 00:18:37,130
There were many articles
from the "Times Union."
251
00:18:39,506 --> 00:18:43,422
There were many sort of
breaking news-type stories about
252
00:18:43,506 --> 00:18:46,839
different women that left
the organization.
253
00:18:52,547 --> 00:18:55,756
Pretty much all of it. I was
sleeping very, very little.
254
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:59,756
I was dedicating my time to
constantly solving different problems.
255
00:18:59,839 --> 00:19:02,214
I put my career on hold.
256
00:19:07,547 --> 00:19:10,381
My first year that I was kind of around,
in and out,
257
00:19:10,464 --> 00:19:12,673
I went to Keith Raniere and I said,
258
00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:14,464
"This bad press is a real problem."
259
00:19:14,547 --> 00:19:18,714
And he's like, "Eh,
not really." I'm like, "What?"
260
00:19:57,214 --> 00:19:58,881
Right.
261
00:20:01,214 --> 00:20:02,839
He said to me,
262
00:20:02,923 --> 00:20:05,506
"Fearful people that
can't think critically
263
00:20:05,589 --> 00:20:08,464
"hear something, and freak out.
264
00:20:09,714 --> 00:20:11,589
"We don't want those people.
265
00:20:11,673 --> 00:20:14,005
"We want the people that can
reason things out.
266
00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:17,005
"The ones that just,
don't just freak out over nothing.
267
00:20:17,089 --> 00:20:18,839
We want the critical thinkers."
268
00:20:18,923 --> 00:20:22,047
And I was like, "That is brilliant."
269
00:20:48,297 --> 00:20:50,881
And I
would say it with such confidence.
270
00:20:50,964 --> 00:20:54,047
Because, like, in some ways,
it's the guardian at the gate
271
00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:57,005
to make sure that we get the best.
272
00:20:57,673 --> 00:21:01,005
Camera. Marker.
273
00:21:01,089 --> 00:21:02,631
From the moment I get there,
274
00:21:02,714 --> 00:21:05,339
they want me to figure out
how to make the film
275
00:21:05,422 --> 00:21:08,756
to exonerate Keith
of all this terrible press.
276
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:11,464
And me and Keith and Kristin
Keeffe and a bunch of people
277
00:21:11,547 --> 00:21:13,464
begin having a discussion about, like,
278
00:21:13,547 --> 00:21:17,047
how do we show that what's
been done to Keith in the press
279
00:21:17,130 --> 00:21:18,547
is horrible,
280
00:21:18,631 --> 00:21:21,130
and this is the very
problem in civilization.
281
00:21:21,214 --> 00:21:23,589
That when somebody tries
to do extraordinary things,
282
00:21:23,673 --> 00:21:24,923
they get suppressed.
283
00:21:25,005 --> 00:21:27,422
And we start shooting this pro-Raniere
284
00:21:27,506 --> 00:21:28,923
anti-cult film,
285
00:21:29,005 --> 00:21:31,339
and it was basically to vindicate him.
286
00:21:32,923 --> 00:21:36,214
To think that Keith and Nancy's
names would go down as...
287
00:21:36,297 --> 00:21:38,422
They would go down
in history as schmucks,
288
00:21:38,506 --> 00:21:40,464
when in my opinion they're both,
289
00:21:40,547 --> 00:21:44,172
you know, intellectual
and humanitarian giants.
290
00:21:44,255 --> 00:21:45,631
Uh, I can't live with that.
291
00:21:45,714 --> 00:21:47,464
'Cause I understand that,
292
00:21:47,547 --> 00:21:49,130
you know, reality isn't
what it looks like.
293
00:21:49,214 --> 00:21:51,798
And I understand that
justice doesn't happen.
294
00:21:51,881 --> 00:21:53,798
You got to make justice happen.
295
00:21:53,881 --> 00:21:57,130
So, I just feel determined.
296
00:21:57,214 --> 00:21:59,756
We spent years
and years planning this film,
297
00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:03,005
but never made it, because the
bad press just kept on coming out,
298
00:22:03,089 --> 00:22:06,881
and we had to keep on coming
up with different strategies,
299
00:22:06,964 --> 00:22:09,381
which we never could.
300
00:22:09,464 --> 00:22:12,756
So, this is when the story
gets even more interesting.
301
00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:16,255
So, Raniere tells me that
the, the issue is
302
00:22:17,089 --> 00:22:18,798
all the negative press
303
00:22:18,881 --> 00:22:22,547
is written by journalists who,
in essence, are being paid off,
304
00:22:22,631 --> 00:22:25,881
funded in extremely high level
in the world,
305
00:22:25,964 --> 00:22:28,506
with billions of dollars behind it.
306
00:22:28,589 --> 00:22:32,172
Because, you know, you have young,
fairly open-minded children
307
00:22:32,255 --> 00:22:35,005
from very powerful families
come to take ESP,
308
00:22:35,089 --> 00:22:37,673
as apparently happened
with the Bronfmans,
309
00:22:37,756 --> 00:22:39,839
who came in 2002.
310
00:22:39,923 --> 00:22:42,506
And suddenly saw the world differently.
311
00:23:55,964 --> 00:23:58,339
So what happens if they stop responding
312
00:23:58,422 --> 00:24:03,422
to the parental pressures
that they used to respond to?
313
00:24:03,506 --> 00:24:07,381
And Keith would explain,
"Their family's extremely powerful,
314
00:24:07,464 --> 00:24:10,506
and they see this as a threat,
and they come after me."
315
00:24:13,005 --> 00:24:16,756
I was told that Clare
Bronfman got upset one day,
316
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:18,130
told her father something,
317
00:24:18,214 --> 00:24:21,214
and her father tried to
destroy ESP and the mission.
318
00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,339
He was behind the "Forbes" article.
319
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:33,506
She was basically responsible
for a lot of the bad press.
320
00:24:33,589 --> 00:24:36,589
That was considered her breach.
321
00:24:51,214 --> 00:24:53,422
And so it seemed
like she was gonna spend
322
00:24:53,506 --> 00:24:57,547
the rest of her life fixing it,
at Raniere's behest, I guess.
323
00:25:04,506 --> 00:25:06,631
I really struggled with
324
00:25:06,714 --> 00:25:08,339
the idea of going to the press.
325
00:25:08,422 --> 00:25:11,381
That being said,
I'd been speaking with Barry Meier.
326
00:25:11,464 --> 00:25:13,756
And I said to him, "I want this to be
327
00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:16,089
"a piece that could impact
328
00:25:16,172 --> 00:25:20,506
"a broader range of people
into really understanding
329
00:25:20,589 --> 00:25:22,422
the danger of this."
330
00:25:28,047 --> 00:25:30,297
I'm coming to pick up my mother.
331
00:25:30,381 --> 00:25:33,339
Because she's coming to give me
some emotional support right now,
332
00:25:33,422 --> 00:25:37,881
because I was feeling
particularly alone in this fight,
333
00:25:37,964 --> 00:25:40,673
as far as my family's concerned.
334
00:25:42,589 --> 00:25:45,673
Hello, Mama. Oh.
335
00:25:45,756 --> 00:25:49,214
You made it!
336
00:25:49,297 --> 00:25:51,089
That's cute.
337
00:25:57,798 --> 00:25:59,839
- No. No, I don't think so.
- You don't.
338
00:26:13,798 --> 00:26:14,923
To the girl...
339
00:26:26,631 --> 00:26:27,798
Yep.
340
00:26:32,005 --> 00:26:33,005
Mm-hmm.
341
00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:43,839
Yes, this is a slightly...
342
00:26:47,673 --> 00:26:49,130
It's ghastly.
343
00:26:58,464 --> 00:27:00,464
Yes. She will.
344
00:27:24,381 --> 00:27:26,422
I mean,
there are people in that organization
345
00:27:26,506 --> 00:27:28,964
that don't have relationships
with their families anymore,
346
00:27:29,047 --> 00:27:31,381
and they're not young anymore like her.
347
00:27:31,464 --> 00:27:33,589
They've dedicated their entire life to
348
00:27:33,673 --> 00:27:36,172
upholding this ideology.
349
00:29:02,047 --> 00:29:06,005
I think that the whole idea about
having him come was to basically...
350
00:29:07,339 --> 00:29:09,089
vindicate Raniere.
351
00:29:09,172 --> 00:29:11,923
And then what happened is,
that event got canceled.
352
00:29:14,422 --> 00:29:16,881
Because there was a lot
of negative press,
353
00:29:16,964 --> 00:29:18,255
the Dalai Lama was pressured,
354
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:20,089
and he said something
to the effect of, you know,
355
00:29:20,172 --> 00:29:23,464
"We need to examine these
things before we take the next step."
356
00:29:26,506 --> 00:29:29,964
That's when myself,
Nancy Salzman, Sara Bronfman,
357
00:29:30,047 --> 00:29:31,923
and Keith Raniere went to Dharamsala
358
00:29:32,005 --> 00:29:33,589
to try to convince the Dalai Lama
359
00:29:33,673 --> 00:29:36,089
that, you know,
Keith Raniere was a good guy,
360
00:29:36,172 --> 00:29:37,339
and to please come.
361
00:29:37,422 --> 00:29:40,964
And so, I went to document
the whole meeting.
362
00:29:41,047 --> 00:29:42,798
- It's that way.
- Which way?
363
00:29:42,881 --> 00:29:44,297
There it is.
364
00:30:07,464 --> 00:30:09,881
Good morning.
365
00:30:19,381 --> 00:30:20,839
Yes.
366
00:30:20,923 --> 00:30:24,923
I guess first and foremost,
I wanted to apologize.
367
00:30:26,297 --> 00:30:30,881
I... The things written
about me are not true.
368
00:30:30,964 --> 00:30:33,089
To the best of my knowledge,
369
00:30:33,172 --> 00:30:36,297
the factual information is not true.
370
00:30:36,381 --> 00:30:39,881
But it is my responsibility,
371
00:30:39,964 --> 00:30:42,255
and I do want to change that.
372
00:31:10,089 --> 00:31:11,589
Precautions.
373
00:31:36,756 --> 00:31:38,381
The different things proven against him
374
00:31:38,464 --> 00:31:40,756
and he has lawsuits against others.
375
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:42,714
These are going on, right?
376
00:31:42,798 --> 00:31:45,089
Are they all settled?
All lawsuits are settled?
377
00:31:47,214 --> 00:31:49,214
There's no lawsuit...
Don't you have lawsuits against, uh...
378
00:31:49,297 --> 00:31:50,589
We've actually...
379
00:31:50,673 --> 00:31:53,714
Yeah. Can I give you
a little bit of the history?
380
00:31:53,798 --> 00:31:56,339
- Sure.
- Um...
381
00:31:56,422 --> 00:32:00,964
It... It is my belief that all of
the accusations against us
382
00:32:01,047 --> 00:32:02,255
are not true.
383
00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:04,089
- Okay.
- Um...
384
00:32:04,172 --> 00:32:07,714
- And there's never... Now...
- Yes.
385
00:32:07,798 --> 00:32:09,047
Um...
386
00:32:09,130 --> 00:32:12,255
The things that are said are not only
387
00:32:12,339 --> 00:32:13,839
just opinion,
388
00:32:13,923 --> 00:32:16,381
but the facts that they use
are incorrect
389
00:32:16,464 --> 00:32:19,089
to propagate that we are cult,
we are a cult, we are cult
390
00:32:19,172 --> 00:32:20,881
with no evidence.
391
00:32:26,964 --> 00:32:29,923
Right?
392
00:32:39,506 --> 00:32:42,422
And he's
dedicated for some good things.
393
00:32:42,506 --> 00:32:44,172
- Isn't it?
- Okay.
394
00:32:45,381 --> 00:32:47,172
- So, thank you.
- Okay.
395
00:32:48,381 --> 00:32:50,631
Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
See you again tomorrow.
396
00:32:50,714 --> 00:32:53,172
And at the very end
of the tail end of the meeting,
397
00:32:53,255 --> 00:32:56,172
um, somehow, he said yes.
398
00:32:56,255 --> 00:32:58,130
You know, and this was
the moment that Raniere
399
00:32:58,214 --> 00:32:59,547
would be finally vindicated.
400
00:33:14,214 --> 00:33:15,255
Yes.
401
00:33:34,172 --> 00:33:37,089
But despite our
win with the Dalai Lama,
402
00:33:37,172 --> 00:33:41,005
the bad press just kept on coming.
403
00:33:41,089 --> 00:33:43,339
He has been involved with several women
404
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:46,464
younger than 16 years old.
405
00:33:46,547 --> 00:33:49,881
The girl pictured here lost
her virginity to Keith Raniere
406
00:33:49,964 --> 00:33:51,673
at age 15 or 16.
407
00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:53,089
Her older sister says,
408
00:33:53,172 --> 00:33:55,214
"He had told her that
she was a bodhisattva,
409
00:33:55,297 --> 00:33:58,964
whose soul could be much older
than her biological age."
410
00:33:59,047 --> 00:34:02,589
Hutchinson killed herself
outside a Buddhist monastery
411
00:34:02,673 --> 00:34:04,714
a t age 33.
412
00:34:04,798 --> 00:34:06,589
When 2012 rolled around
413
00:34:06,673 --> 00:34:09,255
and the "Times Union" article came out,
I read the whole thing.
414
00:34:09,339 --> 00:34:10,881
That disturbed the hell out of me.
415
00:34:10,964 --> 00:34:13,047
That was a lot to take in.
416
00:34:19,047 --> 00:34:21,506
But we were trained for years
417
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:23,381
to think that the most honorable thing
418
00:34:23,464 --> 00:34:24,923
is to maintain silence.
419
00:34:25,005 --> 00:34:27,005
To hold this position of
420
00:34:27,089 --> 00:34:29,923
nobility against these
terrible things in the media.
421
00:34:30,005 --> 00:34:32,381
And at that time,
as a fervent believer,
422
00:34:32,464 --> 00:34:34,464
of course one of my first calls
was to Keith Raniere saying,
423
00:34:34,547 --> 00:34:35,964
you know, "I think we should talk."
424
00:34:36,047 --> 00:34:38,631
But he was very well-prepared
for these things.
425
00:34:38,714 --> 00:34:40,964
He had answers for everything.
426
00:34:41,047 --> 00:34:42,964
You know, we get the negative press,
427
00:34:43,047 --> 00:34:45,297
- and I, I think I know where it comes from.
- Mm-hmm.
428
00:34:45,381 --> 00:34:47,547
But the good side of it is,
429
00:34:47,631 --> 00:34:50,422
in learning about it
and watching how it's done,
430
00:34:50,506 --> 00:34:52,547
and watching how it's done to me,
431
00:34:52,631 --> 00:34:54,798
I was able to come up with
432
00:34:54,881 --> 00:34:56,506
a useful tool set
433
00:34:56,589 --> 00:34:58,923
that can really transform media,
434
00:34:59,005 --> 00:35:02,547
and transform how
people interact with media,
435
00:35:02,631 --> 00:35:05,005
and with the data within media.
436
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:07,506
So 2014,
437
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:11,089
"The Knife" was born.
438
00:35:11,172 --> 00:35:13,130
I was one of the founding
members of "The Knife."
439
00:35:13,214 --> 00:35:16,547
So in essence, it was a media company,
440
00:35:16,631 --> 00:35:18,756
and the idea was to analyze the news
441
00:35:18,839 --> 00:35:22,255
for objectivity,
or lack of objectivity.
442
00:35:22,339 --> 00:35:25,297
So, I trained a group of people,
443
00:35:25,381 --> 00:35:26,631
what we called analysts,
444
00:35:26,714 --> 00:35:29,506
on logic and a series
of Raniere's ideas.
445
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:32,339
There was Rosa Laura Junco,
whose father owns
446
00:35:32,422 --> 00:35:34,297
one of the largest papers in Mexico,
447
00:35:34,381 --> 00:35:35,673
Nicki Clyne,
448
00:35:35,756 --> 00:35:38,172
Allison Mack, and Jens Erik Gould,
449
00:35:38,255 --> 00:35:40,047
who used to be with "Bloomberg."
450
00:35:44,172 --> 00:35:46,464
We would talk about the
kind of bias in the article.
451
00:35:46,547 --> 00:35:50,172
The slant, the skew, the use of,
you know, adjectives.
452
00:35:50,255 --> 00:35:53,464
Basically talk about
how objective something was,
453
00:35:53,547 --> 00:35:55,631
versus, you know, very subjective.
454
00:35:55,714 --> 00:35:59,923
The idea was to give every
newspaper article a rating.
455
00:36:01,547 --> 00:36:02,881
Joining us now to analyze
456
00:36:02,964 --> 00:36:05,631
is the editor-in-chief
of "The Knife" media,
457
00:36:05,714 --> 00:36:06,964
Jens Erik Gould.
458
00:36:07,047 --> 00:36:10,047
Your rating of the coverage
in three outlets
459
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:12,589
of the Trump Presidency
in the first six months.
460
00:36:12,673 --> 00:36:14,506
The language used in their stories
461
00:36:14,589 --> 00:36:16,589
have some sort of vagueness.
462
00:36:16,673 --> 00:36:18,881
Some sort of sensationalism.
Let me give you an example.
463
00:36:18,964 --> 00:36:21,089
Words like "constant chaos,"
464
00:36:21,172 --> 00:36:23,673
"in-fighting," "abrupt and angry,"
465
00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:25,964
"warring factions," "floundering."
466
00:36:26,047 --> 00:36:28,214
These are words
that are not measurable.
467
00:36:28,297 --> 00:36:30,172
They're not based on data or facts.
468
00:36:30,255 --> 00:36:32,130
They're emotional,
and they get us riled up,
469
00:36:32,214 --> 00:36:33,339
and we get into that.
470
00:36:33,422 --> 00:36:35,172
But they're not helping us
be more informed.
471
00:36:35,255 --> 00:36:37,130
So when the
President says it's fake news,
472
00:36:37,214 --> 00:36:38,673
what you're here to
tell me is, a lot of it,
473
00:36:38,756 --> 00:36:39,964
if it's not fake,
474
00:36:40,047 --> 00:36:41,881
it's heavily spun and very biased.
475
00:36:41,964 --> 00:36:43,005
It's an important distinction,
476
00:36:43,089 --> 00:36:44,464
because something can be a fact,
477
00:36:44,547 --> 00:36:46,881
but it can be distorted
in how it's presented to you.
478
00:36:46,964 --> 00:36:49,005
Very interesting.
"Knife Media" is what it's called.
479
00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:51,089
Jens Erik Gould,
thank you for being here today.
480
00:36:51,172 --> 00:36:53,673
At the time, I understood "The Knife"
481
00:36:53,756 --> 00:36:56,214
was a way to analyze the accuracy
482
00:36:56,297 --> 00:36:59,589
of media outlets...
483
00:36:59,673 --> 00:37:03,214
which I now understand
was literally to prepare people
484
00:37:03,297 --> 00:37:05,714
for any negative press
that would come against ESP,
485
00:37:05,798 --> 00:37:07,839
because they would,
in essence, discard it
486
00:37:07,923 --> 00:37:10,547
for its emotionality.
487
00:37:10,631 --> 00:37:13,381
You know, if you reduce
everything down to the simplest thing,
488
00:37:13,464 --> 00:37:15,381
you know, you go from,
489
00:37:15,464 --> 00:37:17,047
a man raped a woman to
490
00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:20,381
a man did something.
There was a woman involved.
491
00:37:20,464 --> 00:37:22,881
When you, when you basically
take all the emotionality out,
492
00:37:22,964 --> 00:37:25,005
you have no idea
what actually happened.
493
00:37:28,464 --> 00:37:29,798
Hello.
494
00:37:40,673 --> 00:37:41,839
Mm-hmm.
495
00:37:43,881 --> 00:37:46,756
Yeah. Here's the deal. I cannot...
496
00:37:46,839 --> 00:37:49,339
A year ago, I could not imagine
497
00:37:49,422 --> 00:37:51,089
that I would be talking to you,
498
00:37:51,172 --> 00:37:53,798
taking the position I'm taking.
I couldn't.
499
00:37:53,881 --> 00:37:56,297
Because I have a lot to lose
500
00:37:56,381 --> 00:37:59,255
if, if it's public that
we're having this conversation.
501
00:37:59,339 --> 00:38:02,339
This, this thing is a ligation machine
502
00:38:02,422 --> 00:38:04,964
funded, funded by a lot of wealth.
503
00:38:12,047 --> 00:38:15,172
Yeah.
504
00:38:17,798 --> 00:38:21,005
Yeah.
505
00:38:33,255 --> 00:38:35,255
All my paranoia...
506
00:38:35,339 --> 00:38:37,631
Literally my 20s in South Africa
507
00:38:37,714 --> 00:38:39,297
for seven years were watching my back,
508
00:38:39,381 --> 00:38:41,464
looking to see who's following me,
you know.
509
00:38:41,547 --> 00:38:44,756
Being, being, you know,
really espionage-minded,
510
00:38:44,839 --> 00:38:46,589
'cause my father was a spy.
511
00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:49,089
I now feel like I'm back there again,
512
00:38:49,172 --> 00:38:51,089
doing all the same things.
513
00:38:51,172 --> 00:38:53,964
Walking through a space,
memorizing faces.
514
00:38:54,047 --> 00:38:56,089
Watching cars, looking for tails.
515
00:38:56,172 --> 00:38:59,130
It's all like,
the same shit I went through.
516
00:38:59,214 --> 00:39:02,047
And it's hard on Bonnie, you know.
517
00:39:04,422 --> 00:39:07,172
So, Mark started this thing,
like, two years ago
518
00:39:07,255 --> 00:39:09,381
where he wanted to have
cameras in our house.
519
00:39:09,464 --> 00:39:11,673
And at first it felt like,
520
00:39:11,756 --> 00:39:14,839
like that was a good, protective,
you know, safe thing.
521
00:39:14,923 --> 00:39:18,172
So he put a camera here. And, uh...
522
00:39:18,255 --> 00:39:20,673
At first, that was good.
523
00:39:20,756 --> 00:39:23,255
Now, when I quit, um,
524
00:39:23,339 --> 00:39:27,005
I didn't trust him completely.
525
00:39:27,089 --> 00:39:29,798
I was very paranoid,
and I had called a cult counselor.
526
00:39:29,881 --> 00:39:32,089
And I literally tried to
avoid the camera
527
00:39:32,172 --> 00:39:33,673
so he wouldn't see me
making a phone call.
528
00:39:33,756 --> 00:39:35,798
And I'm, like, talking
in the corner of the kitchen
529
00:39:35,881 --> 00:39:37,673
calling the counselor, paranoid,
530
00:39:37,756 --> 00:39:40,255
saying, like,
"I'm so afraid to call you."
531
00:39:40,339 --> 00:39:43,673
Um, luckily he didn't rat me out.
532
00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:45,255
So that's fine.
533
00:39:47,756 --> 00:39:50,381
Now, it feels like
we're on the same page,
534
00:39:50,464 --> 00:39:52,589
which is, like,
the most important thing.
535
00:39:52,673 --> 00:39:54,214
We know what we're standing for.
536
00:39:54,297 --> 00:39:55,673
We know what happened to us.
537
00:39:55,756 --> 00:39:58,964
Now we're talking to "The
New York Times," and...
538
00:39:59,047 --> 00:40:02,214
none of us know what's gonna happen.
539
00:40:02,297 --> 00:40:04,589
Basically, we've been laying low.
540
00:40:04,673 --> 00:40:06,422
Not a lot of people
have known we were here,
541
00:40:06,506 --> 00:40:07,881
and actually the reason
542
00:40:07,964 --> 00:40:09,214
we're okay with shooting here
543
00:40:09,297 --> 00:40:11,005
is 'cause we're about to leave here.
544
00:40:14,506 --> 00:40:16,464
What we'd made a decision about
545
00:40:16,547 --> 00:40:19,631
was applying for the
government safe address program.
546
00:40:19,714 --> 00:40:21,130
To basically go off the grid,
547
00:40:21,214 --> 00:40:23,673
so that nobody can find out
where we really are.
548
00:40:23,756 --> 00:40:28,047
A nd all, all mail and all
everything points to Sacramento.
549
00:40:28,130 --> 00:40:30,172
It would be good if we're moved in,
550
00:40:30,255 --> 00:40:31,673
and then "The New
York Times" comes out,
551
00:40:31,756 --> 00:40:33,297
and the address protection
thing will happen
552
00:40:33,381 --> 00:40:35,798
in the next, like, two weeks. I think.
553
00:40:35,881 --> 00:40:38,756
And then we can be
pretty much off the radar.
554
00:40:38,839 --> 00:40:41,547
If they want to serve us papers,
they can't find us.
555
00:40:52,172 --> 00:40:54,172
All right, so I got correspondence
556
00:40:54,255 --> 00:40:55,756
from a lawyer,
557
00:40:55,839 --> 00:40:58,964
and a document from what
appears to be NXIVM Mexico,
558
00:40:59,047 --> 00:41:02,381
the letter and notice from
the State Attorney in Mexico
559
00:41:02,464 --> 00:41:03,589
that's notarized.
560
00:41:03,673 --> 00:41:05,547
"I hereby request the compliance of
561
00:41:05,631 --> 00:41:07,381
the following restraining measures."
562
00:41:16,714 --> 00:41:19,964
"Failure to comply with such
measures shall bring along
563
00:41:20,047 --> 00:41:22,798
"the imposition of urgency measures.
564
00:41:22,881 --> 00:41:25,964
"Such measures vary from a warning,
565
00:41:26,047 --> 00:41:28,130
"up to an arrest for 36 hours,
566
00:41:28,214 --> 00:41:32,589
alongside criminal
responsibilities that shall arrive."
567
00:41:33,214 --> 00:41:35,005
Are you serious?
568
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:43,839
I heard that Barry went up to Albany
569
00:41:43,923 --> 00:41:45,506
to try to get a statement
from NXIVM so I think...
570
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:48,756
I think that's what tipped
them off about the article.
571
00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:50,714
So I think they're trying to attack
572
00:41:50,798 --> 00:41:53,714
anyone that they think might
be speaking to the press.
573
00:41:53,798 --> 00:41:55,130
Yeah. I think so, too.
574
00:41:55,214 --> 00:41:57,089
So I immediately sent the letter
575
00:41:57,172 --> 00:41:59,422
to Barry Meier at "The New York Times,"
576
00:41:59,506 --> 00:42:00,839
because I wanted his reaction.
577
00:42:00,923 --> 00:42:04,381
Actually, my thought was
if he gets this letter,
578
00:42:04,464 --> 00:42:08,506
maybe he will push for
the article to come out sooner.
579
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:11,673
But he basically sent me back
an email this morning saying,
580
00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:13,297
"Welcome to the club."
581
00:42:13,381 --> 00:42:15,005
He said he got the same letter,
582
00:42:15,089 --> 00:42:18,047
so I'm baffled why they are doing this.
583
00:43:04,339 --> 00:43:06,798
Hold on one sec. What's going on, Troy?
584
00:43:07,339 --> 00:43:08,589
Hi, buddy.
585
00:43:09,506 --> 00:43:11,214
Are you gonna go to the park?
586
00:43:11,297 --> 00:43:14,381
I couldn't talk about it 'cause I didn't
want my collateral to be released.
587
00:43:14,464 --> 00:43:15,923
The biggest fear,
I think, is my family,
588
00:43:16,005 --> 00:43:17,589
and, like, the videos
of me trash-talking
589
00:43:17,673 --> 00:43:19,130
all my important relationships.
590
00:43:19,214 --> 00:43:21,297
Those are my biggest things.
591
00:43:21,381 --> 00:43:25,130
And also, I just don't
want a legal battle.
592
00:43:25,214 --> 00:43:26,798
- You know, I know what ESP does.
- Yeah.
593
00:43:26,881 --> 00:43:29,255
They go after
anyone who speaks against them.
594
00:43:29,339 --> 00:43:30,756
We have a three-year-old son.
595
00:43:30,839 --> 00:43:33,673
I don't want to make this
his backdrop to his childhood.
596
00:44:33,089 --> 00:44:34,506
Jesus.
597
00:45:20,297 --> 00:45:22,422
Putting myself out there
598
00:45:22,506 --> 00:45:24,964
and being the face of this...
599
00:45:25,047 --> 00:45:26,255
is terrifying.
600
00:45:26,339 --> 00:45:27,839
But, like, when I was in ESP,
601
00:45:27,923 --> 00:45:30,381
there were always allegations,
but there was no proof,
602
00:45:30,464 --> 00:45:33,172
or as they say, "class one data."
603
00:45:33,255 --> 00:45:35,631
You know, if anyone's gonna
say anything about it,
604
00:45:35,714 --> 00:45:38,172
it has to be someone
who's willing to say,
605
00:45:38,255 --> 00:45:39,255
"Hey, here's the proof."
606
00:45:39,339 --> 00:45:41,422
So now I have class one data,
607
00:45:41,506 --> 00:45:42,964
and it's on my body.
608
00:45:43,047 --> 00:45:44,798
And you cannot deny it.
609
00:45:44,881 --> 00:45:48,297
So, I've decided to go on the record,
610
00:45:48,381 --> 00:45:50,631
and expose this.
611
00:45:50,714 --> 00:45:54,214
I was reluctant to talk to
"The New York Times." Scared.
612
00:45:54,297 --> 00:45:57,089
And I don't want to be associated
with these things, you know?
613
00:45:57,172 --> 00:45:58,714
I'm embarrassed.
614
00:45:58,798 --> 00:46:00,255
You know. And then I was like,
615
00:46:00,339 --> 00:46:02,881
if embarrassment is the
only price to do the right thing,
616
00:46:02,964 --> 00:46:04,172
I'm just gonna go on the record,
617
00:46:04,255 --> 00:46:06,756
and do what I can to
expose this. Take this out.
618
00:46:06,839 --> 00:46:09,047
You'll be surprised
how many times I can say
619
00:46:09,130 --> 00:46:13,756
"Keith Raniere and Allison Mack's
initials are on people's vaginas."
620
00:46:13,839 --> 00:46:16,839
I will put that in
every single statement I can,
621
00:46:16,923 --> 00:46:19,547
and if you leave reading that article
622
00:46:19,631 --> 00:46:22,464
supporting that,
and you're in that camp,
623
00:46:22,547 --> 00:46:24,464
it's gonna be obvious
that the problem is you,
624
00:46:24,547 --> 00:46:26,839
and not people who are
standing against that stuff.
625
00:46:26,923 --> 00:46:28,422
Spin it however you want.
626
00:46:28,506 --> 00:46:30,964
That's the problem.
That's the bad thing.
627
00:46:31,047 --> 00:46:32,964
I tap out at that.
628
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:40,964
I'm doing a very slow,
low depth of field,
629
00:46:41,047 --> 00:46:44,297
just on your eyes.
That looks great, Mark.
630
00:46:44,381 --> 00:46:46,589
Tilt your head a little bit that way.
631
00:46:46,673 --> 00:46:49,506
And now, chin down every so
slightly... Right there. That's good.
632
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:51,130
- Good.
- I said to Barry,
633
00:46:51,214 --> 00:46:53,547
"I don't know if I can go
on the record with this."
634
00:46:53,631 --> 00:46:55,506
I wanted to back away.
635
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:58,631
And he said to me, "I,
I, I just want to tell you,
636
00:46:58,714 --> 00:47:00,673
"the reason this shit
keeps going on is because
637
00:47:00,756 --> 00:47:02,964
people don't want to go on the record."
638
00:47:03,047 --> 00:47:06,297
I was like, "Fuck you. That's so true."
639
00:47:06,381 --> 00:47:08,047
Oh, that's good. Straight ahead.
640
00:47:08,130 --> 00:47:09,631
Just into the camera, just there.
641
00:47:09,714 --> 00:47:11,381
They are gonna
look for us more and more,
642
00:47:11,464 --> 00:47:14,547
'cause we're talking about
people that have a lot of resources.
643
00:47:16,881 --> 00:47:18,297
No.
644
00:47:18,381 --> 00:47:20,130
So Bonnie and I spoke about it,
645
00:47:20,214 --> 00:47:22,297
and said, "Okay." And it was like,
it was like a suicide mission.
646
00:47:22,381 --> 00:47:24,964
Just, like, we can't
live with ourselves.
647
00:47:34,422 --> 00:47:35,881
What do I do with myself?
648
00:47:37,422 --> 00:47:40,464
Yeah.
649
00:47:40,547 --> 00:47:42,005
- That is true.
- You can even put it up
650
00:47:42,089 --> 00:47:43,798
a little bit higher, if you want.
651
00:47:43,881 --> 00:47:45,631
All right, you guys.
Look over here at me.
652
00:47:45,714 --> 00:47:47,923
Good.
653
00:47:52,255 --> 00:47:53,714
Hello.
654
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:59,547
So there's, uh,
Catherine on the record,
655
00:47:59,631 --> 00:48:03,297
there's Sarah on the record,
there's Sarah's husband,
656
00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:05,255
as well, on the record.
657
00:48:05,339 --> 00:48:08,381
And then, myself and Bonnie.
658
00:48:08,464 --> 00:48:10,547
Um, there are
659
00:48:10,631 --> 00:48:12,714
a number of other girls
that are coming out.
660
00:48:12,798 --> 00:48:14,673
But I don't know their status,
661
00:48:14,756 --> 00:48:16,506
whether they'd want to
talk about this or not.
662
00:48:16,589 --> 00:48:19,589
Mm-hmm.
663
00:48:23,756 --> 00:48:24,923
Okay.
664
00:48:26,464 --> 00:48:28,964
- I'm gonna talk to a few different people.
- Right.
665
00:48:29,047 --> 00:48:30,881
But I think in about 3 or 4 days,
666
00:48:30,964 --> 00:48:33,881
I'll probably have a pretty
clear list of who would talk.
667
00:48:44,714 --> 00:48:47,297
I wanted to just go
back to the question you had
668
00:48:47,381 --> 00:48:50,255
about that article.
669
00:48:50,339 --> 00:48:52,798
Um, what did you hear?
670
00:50:30,005 --> 00:50:31,798
I wasn't 100% sure,
671
00:50:31,881 --> 00:50:35,297
her level of involvement, but...
672
00:50:35,381 --> 00:50:38,673
My daughter India, she's a ringleader.
673
00:50:38,756 --> 00:50:41,756
She's a slave, and she's a master.
674
00:50:44,422 --> 00:50:47,381
I don't think I'm gonna get her out
675
00:50:47,464 --> 00:50:49,923
until the organization is taken down.
676
00:50:56,422 --> 00:50:59,422
Do you think it's too late to call?
677
00:51:00,422 --> 00:51:02,673
Hey, Barry.
678
00:51:02,756 --> 00:51:05,547
Obviously, you know why I'm calling.
679
00:51:05,631 --> 00:51:10,547
India's still in the clutches of...
680
00:51:10,631 --> 00:51:13,214
that in... that madman.
681
00:51:13,297 --> 00:51:16,255
And being subjected
to more mind control,
682
00:51:16,339 --> 00:51:17,756
so that's really hard on me.
683
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:19,881
- Yeah. We're, we're...
- What... tell... What do you know?
684
00:51:27,339 --> 00:51:28,673
Keep the faith. Keep the faith.
685
00:51:28,756 --> 00:51:30,214
- Okay, and so you can't...
- Keep the faith.
686
00:51:30,297 --> 00:51:33,422
Can you give me, like,
a vague ballpark?
687
00:51:33,506 --> 00:51:36,255
Well, like, how about a...
688
00:51:36,339 --> 00:51:38,297
day. Not the time, but just the day.
689
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:49,172
Mm.
690
00:52:08,172 --> 00:52:09,381
Yeah.
691
00:52:14,047 --> 00:52:15,673
Mm-hmm.
692
00:52:24,589 --> 00:52:25,839
God.
693
00:52:26,756 --> 00:52:28,464
This is nerve-wracking.
694
00:52:36,839 --> 00:52:38,631
He's ruining people's lives.
695
00:52:38,714 --> 00:52:41,381
People's lives that
I brought into the company.
696
00:52:41,464 --> 00:52:44,005
That is terrifying to me.
697
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:46,047
How do I reconcile that?
698
00:52:47,964 --> 00:52:50,214
And my friends in Albany,
my close friends,
699
00:52:50,297 --> 00:52:51,631
people who were at our wedding say,
700
00:52:51,714 --> 00:52:53,089
"Oh, you seem really fearful
701
00:52:53,172 --> 00:52:54,297
"and you're making a rash decision.
702
00:52:54,381 --> 00:52:55,881
It seems like you're having a tantrum."
703
00:52:56,005 --> 00:52:57,923
I'm not having a fucking tantrum.
704
00:52:58,005 --> 00:53:01,547
I'm the most principled I've
ever been in my fucking life.
705
00:53:01,631 --> 00:53:03,631
That's why I knew that
I had to do the article,
706
00:53:03,714 --> 00:53:06,172
because I had to reach them somehow.
707
00:53:06,255 --> 00:53:09,673
And Frank Parlato... The Frank
Report isn't the way to do it.
708
00:53:09,756 --> 00:53:11,589
It's too sensationalized.
709
00:53:13,881 --> 00:53:16,005
If we expose this, then, then they have
710
00:53:16,089 --> 00:53:17,506
the opportunity to leave
if they want to.
711
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:19,923
If they want to keep going, go ahead.
712
00:53:26,089 --> 00:53:27,589
Sarah?
713
00:53:27,673 --> 00:53:30,214
- Yeah.
- Hey, sorry to bother you,
714
00:53:30,297 --> 00:53:32,839
but I just found out some bad news.
715
00:53:32,923 --> 00:53:34,381
- Okay.
- So,
716
00:53:34,464 --> 00:53:38,130
"The New York Times" doesn't
consider this story urgent,
717
00:53:38,214 --> 00:53:40,339
and there's a chance that
718
00:53:40,422 --> 00:53:42,839
they may postpone it indefinitely.
719
00:53:44,589 --> 00:53:47,089
Basically, the story is
considered evergreen.
720
00:53:47,172 --> 00:53:50,381
There is no... They don't think
there's any urgency to this story.
721
00:53:50,464 --> 00:53:54,047
But they don't have a kid
in there that's wasting away.
722
00:53:54,130 --> 00:53:56,422
You just to talk
to him. You need to move this.
723
00:53:56,506 --> 00:53:57,881
This isn't the gossip column.
724
00:53:57,964 --> 00:54:00,422
People's lives are being ruined.
725
00:54:02,798 --> 00:54:04,297
I'm desperate.
726
00:54:04,381 --> 00:54:06,714
I don't know if you know
what's going on inside my body,
727
00:54:06,798 --> 00:54:08,547
but I am desperate.
728
00:54:08,631 --> 00:54:12,714
Because I don't know what
else we can do at this point.
729
00:54:12,798 --> 00:54:16,339
I really don't. Like,
somebody tell us... give us an option.
730
00:54:29,172 --> 00:54:33,130
I don't think that
someone signing up for
731
00:54:33,214 --> 00:54:36,255
self-improvement or
self-help is a horrible thing
732
00:54:36,339 --> 00:54:38,130
or a bad thing.
733
00:54:38,214 --> 00:54:42,089
I'm so incapable of
self-improvement, okay,
734
00:54:42,172 --> 00:54:45,923
that it just doesn't
appeal to me, straight up.
735
00:54:46,005 --> 00:54:48,089
Right? It's like
there's no hope for me.
736
00:54:48,172 --> 00:54:50,673
There's just no...
Nothing that could be done.
737
00:54:50,756 --> 00:54:53,547
Even if there was some
self-improvement program
738
00:54:53,631 --> 00:54:55,589
that actually worked,
739
00:54:55,673 --> 00:54:58,130
it wouldn't work on me.
740
00:54:59,798 --> 00:55:01,297
It's that simple.
741
00:55:01,381 --> 00:55:03,589
So, I'm, like,
protected from this shit.
742
00:55:03,673 --> 00:55:06,673
Because I'm fucking helpless.
743
00:55:13,255 --> 00:55:16,964
I would guess the central thing
that I took away from it
744
00:55:17,047 --> 00:55:20,297
was how extraordinarily
vulnerable we are,
745
00:55:20,381 --> 00:55:22,130
as people.
746
00:55:22,214 --> 00:55:26,964
And how even people who,
on the surface,
747
00:55:27,047 --> 00:55:30,214
are bright, are capable,
748
00:55:30,297 --> 00:55:34,964
talented, successful, in many ways,
749
00:55:35,047 --> 00:55:39,130
have this intense vulnerability.
750
00:55:39,214 --> 00:55:42,214
And that vulnerability
751
00:55:42,297 --> 00:55:45,756
is available for someone to exploit.
752
00:55:47,339 --> 00:55:51,255
The idea that in 2017,
753
00:55:51,339 --> 00:55:54,673
when we think of ourselves as living in
754
00:55:54,756 --> 00:55:58,923
an advanced,
culturally enlightened society,
755
00:55:59,005 --> 00:56:04,673
where there's hope for equality
between men and women,
756
00:56:04,756 --> 00:56:08,923
that this type of unspeakable cruelty
757
00:56:09,005 --> 00:56:10,839
can persist.
758
00:56:10,923 --> 00:56:13,506
And that people can partake
759
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:16,422
and be subjected to practices
760
00:56:16,506 --> 00:56:19,923
that could only be described
as barbaric.
761
00:56:20,005 --> 00:56:24,255
But, from the standpoint
of publication,
762
00:56:24,339 --> 00:56:28,464
it's important to have
as many people as possible
763
00:56:28,547 --> 00:56:30,756
speaking on the record.
764
00:56:30,839 --> 00:56:34,214
And throughout the reporting
of the story,
765
00:56:34,297 --> 00:56:38,130
the greatest fear that everyone
was expressing to me
766
00:56:38,214 --> 00:56:41,464
was the fear of legal retaliation.
767
00:56:42,798 --> 00:56:45,172
And they had a basis to believe that,
768
00:56:45,255 --> 00:56:49,297
because there was this other group
of women who had left the group,
769
00:56:49,381 --> 00:56:54,464
and in fact had been the
subject of numerous lawsuits.
770
00:56:54,547 --> 00:56:56,589
I was the first significant person
771
00:56:56,673 --> 00:56:59,589
in the entire organization
to ever leave.
772
00:56:59,673 --> 00:57:02,881
Over the years, I heard from members
773
00:57:02,964 --> 00:57:04,881
and ex-members and the media
774
00:57:04,964 --> 00:57:07,297
that people were terrified
775
00:57:07,381 --> 00:57:10,089
to be the next Barbara Bouchey.
776
00:57:10,172 --> 00:57:12,714
They needed to make
an example out of me,
777
00:57:12,798 --> 00:57:15,923
in order to instill in the community:
778
00:57:16,005 --> 00:57:18,673
This can happen to you, too.
779
00:57:18,756 --> 00:57:22,255
Buckle your seat belt, and get ready.
780
00:57:22,339 --> 00:57:25,297
'Cause they're comin' for you.
781
00:57:32,047 --> 00:57:34,964
♪ You better be careful, girl ♪
782
00:57:36,047 --> 00:57:38,172
♪ You're all alone ♪
783
00:57:39,631 --> 00:57:42,714
♪ You better be careful, girl ♪
784
00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:46,005
♪ You're on your own ♪
785
00:57:49,381 --> 00:57:52,381
♪ I see the tears begin ♪
786
00:57:53,130 --> 00:57:58,798
♪ There in your eyes ♪
787
00:58:43,172 --> 00:58:45,005
I'm front page of The New York Times.
788
00:58:45,547 --> 00:58:47,798
Holy shit, the whole world knows.
789
00:58:50,589 --> 00:58:53,673
Every now and then I'm getting, "What
the fuck? How could you let that happen?"
790
00:59:01,756 --> 00:59:03,631
Now that I'm out and I'm looking back,
791
00:59:03,714 --> 00:59:05,255
it was all for a man's pleasure.
792
00:59:05,339 --> 00:59:08,214
And these women feel it's
a beautiful, noble attempt
793
00:59:08,422 --> 00:59:10,839
to teach women strength and empowerment
794
00:59:10,964 --> 00:59:12,798
and I am fucking that up for them.
795
00:59:12,881 --> 00:59:16,047
I found out the board was all the women
796
00:59:16,130 --> 00:59:17,839
Keith had been sleeping with.
797
00:59:20,172 --> 00:59:22,506
I held a forum to confront Keith.
798
00:59:22,964 --> 00:59:24,339
This is extortion.
799
00:59:24,422 --> 00:59:26,506
So, we are filing criminal charges.
800
00:59:26,923 --> 00:59:29,047
They were bombarding the court.
801
00:59:29,130 --> 00:59:30,464
It was like a horror show.
64165
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