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1
00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:08,379
She had been written by men
and drawn by men
2
00:00:08,459 --> 00:00:11,340
because that was
the comics' tradition.
3
00:00:11,420 --> 00:00:12,459
When I was younger,
4
00:00:12,539 --> 00:00:14,980
my mother told me
superheroes were for boys.
5
00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:18,459
Some readers felt, "How come
you're writing so many girls?"
6
00:00:18,540 --> 00:00:20,260
You know,
there'd always be one girl,
7
00:00:20,339 --> 00:00:22,779
and she had the least powers.
8
00:00:22,860 --> 00:00:26,459
Whenever a woman gets there,
she's not worthy.
9
00:00:26,540 --> 00:00:29,339
The poor thing died
in solitude and poverty,
10
00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:32,300
and it's not fair.
11
00:00:32,380 --> 00:00:34,980
We have a serious problem
as a society, I think,
12
00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:37,899
with the hypersexualization
of women.
13
00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:42,740
And we are playing with 50% of
the world population's feelings!
14
00:00:42,819 --> 00:00:46,100
Today, we are seeing
a reversing trend.
15
00:00:46,179 --> 00:00:48,020
The idea has always been
16
00:00:48,100 --> 00:00:52,219
to look on these characters
as people who can grow,
17
00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:55,020
who can change,
who can surprise you.
18
00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:57,579
What's great is that
she actually reclaims
19
00:00:57,660 --> 00:00:59,499
the artifices of femininity.
20
00:00:59,579 --> 00:01:03,700
Minorities bonded with the team
to a remarkable extent.
21
00:01:03,779 --> 00:01:07,259
For the time, she was
a revolutionary character.
22
00:01:07,339 --> 00:01:10,940
She is a symbol
for the entire LGBT community.
23
00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:15,860
It was very fascinating to see
a woman in a leadership role.
24
00:01:15,940 --> 00:01:17,500
There are a lot
of female writers,
25
00:01:17,580 --> 00:01:19,780
a lot of female artists,
a lot of female editors.
26
00:01:19,860 --> 00:01:21,979
The reader is not
the traditional male reader.
27
00:01:22,059 --> 00:01:24,819
They will be our kids' heroes.
28
00:01:24,899 --> 00:01:26,819
Matriarchy will save the world!
29
00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:04,500
Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel,
30
00:02:04,580 --> 00:02:06,780
Black Widow, Supergirl...
31
00:02:06,860 --> 00:02:09,100
Superheroines are taking over
movie screens
32
00:02:09,180 --> 00:02:10,259
and people's hearts
33
00:02:10,340 --> 00:02:12,699
but they are also milestones
in a story
34
00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:15,340
that began over 80 years ago.
35
00:02:15,419 --> 00:02:17,900
Social progress
as well as sexist backward steps
36
00:02:17,979 --> 00:02:20,060
have marked the journey
of these superwomen
37
00:02:20,139 --> 00:02:21,419
and their female readers.
38
00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:23,340
We've met with men and women
39
00:02:23,419 --> 00:02:25,579
who spearhead
these characters' adventures.
40
00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:28,220
From the United States
to France, and even Italy,
41
00:02:28,299 --> 00:02:31,859
they all speak of the worldwide
influence of superheroines.
42
00:02:31,940 --> 00:02:34,900
Australian comic book artist
Nicola Scott, for instance,
43
00:02:34,979 --> 00:02:38,019
has long been fascinated
by a particular amazon
44
00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:39,859
whose adventures
she draws today.
45
00:02:40,579 --> 00:02:42,460
The very first time
I saw Wonder Woman,
46
00:02:42,539 --> 00:02:45,259
it was the very first time
I saw a superhero.
47
00:02:45,340 --> 00:02:46,660
And it was when I was four,
48
00:02:46,739 --> 00:02:49,419
watching TV in the afternoon,
49
00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:51,500
and Lynda Carter's TV show
came on.
50
00:02:51,579 --> 00:02:55,180
And I had never seen anything
like it and it blew my mind,
51
00:02:55,259 --> 00:02:59,699
and I was 100% a convert
from that moment on.
52
00:02:59,780 --> 00:03:01,180
Before seeing the show,
53
00:03:01,259 --> 00:03:03,539
I didn't know
that superheroes were a thing,
54
00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:06,699
so that was the very first time
I saw a superhero.
55
00:03:06,780 --> 00:03:08,019
And it wasn't long after that
56
00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:12,539
that the Super Friends cartoon
started playing on TV
57
00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:15,579
and I'd go, "Oh my God,
there's Wonder Woman again!"
58
00:03:15,660 --> 00:03:17,900
I knew Wonder Woman
as a character before the movie
59
00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:21,139
because she's the superheroine.
60
00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:23,100
Perhaps not the most important
but an icon,
61
00:03:23,180 --> 00:03:24,900
the one everyone
is familiar with,
62
00:03:24,979 --> 00:03:26,739
because there aren't
that many superwomen.
63
00:03:27,259 --> 00:03:29,739
From the little
town of Cortona in Italy,
64
00:03:29,819 --> 00:03:31,780
comic book artist
Maria Laura Sanapo
65
00:03:31,859 --> 00:03:35,460
works for American publishers
like DC Comics or Dynamite,
66
00:03:35,539 --> 00:03:38,259
producing pages
for Wonder Woman.
67
00:03:38,340 --> 00:03:43,259
My favorite superheroine is,
without a doubt, Wonder Woman.
68
00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:46,579
She marked my childhood
because when I was little,
69
00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:49,060
I discovered Lynda Carter.
70
00:03:49,139 --> 00:03:51,859
I really love Lynda Carter,
71
00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:54,220
her beauty, her elegance,
72
00:03:54,299 --> 00:03:59,019
because she is both
strong and elegant.
73
00:04:06,579 --> 00:04:11,979
And so, I love that Wonder Woman
I admired as a little girl.
74
00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:13,739
She is dear to me.
75
00:04:13,819 --> 00:04:15,699
I also like the modern version
by Gal Gadot,
76
00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:17,539
but not to the same extent.
77
00:04:17,619 --> 00:04:18,660
When I was younger,
78
00:04:18,739 --> 00:04:21,499
my mother told me
superheroes were for boys.
79
00:04:21,580 --> 00:04:23,580
She said it was
out of the question,
80
00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:25,379
I had to act like a girl.
81
00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:27,939
So, I went to newsstands
in secret
82
00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:29,140
to buy my comic books,
83
00:04:29,220 --> 00:04:31,780
and I read them in bed under
the covers with a flashlight.
84
00:04:31,859 --> 00:04:35,619
That's when I began
to dive into that world
85
00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:39,660
and get caught up
in who was who,
86
00:04:39,739 --> 00:04:42,020
why did he do that,
87
00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:44,660
and oh, my God,
there are girls, too, awesome!
88
00:04:45,260 --> 00:04:47,979
In Rome, Emanuela
Lupacchino is one of the most
89
00:04:48,059 --> 00:04:49,939
internationally renowned
figureheads
90
00:04:50,020 --> 00:04:52,539
of this new generation
of female artists.
91
00:04:52,619 --> 00:04:54,900
In the course of my career,
92
00:04:54,979 --> 00:04:59,059
I've been able to work
mainly on superheroines
93
00:04:59,140 --> 00:05:01,739
because I feel that
it is with them
94
00:05:01,820 --> 00:05:07,179
that I can express myself
in the best possible way.
95
00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:14,140
And readers appreciate the way
I portray superwomen.
96
00:05:14,220 --> 00:05:18,100
But that doesn't mean
that I'm not also a big fan
97
00:05:18,179 --> 00:05:20,499
of how the male body
is represented
98
00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:23,619
with male superheroes,
such as Conan.
99
00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:25,619
Heroines are fierce
and intelligent,
100
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:27,539
and they manage
to solve problems.
101
00:05:27,619 --> 00:05:30,220
It's been a source
of inspiration,
102
00:05:30,299 --> 00:05:32,939
Girl Power, as we call it.
103
00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:36,539
I want to be as strong
as they are mentally,
104
00:05:36,619 --> 00:05:38,379
perhaps even physically,
I don't know,
105
00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:40,220
but in any case,
it was a huge inspiration
106
00:05:40,299 --> 00:05:43,739
for my professional life,
with drawing for instance.
107
00:05:43,820 --> 00:05:46,220
It was a source of inspiration
and motivation.
108
00:05:51,340 --> 00:05:53,820
But might not
Wonder Woman sometimes be
109
00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:55,580
the tree that hides the forest?
110
00:05:55,660 --> 00:05:58,020
Not only is she not
the only superheroine out there,
111
00:05:58,100 --> 00:05:59,900
but she is also not the first.
112
00:05:59,979 --> 00:06:01,859
Several months
before her appearance,
113
00:06:01,939 --> 00:06:04,780
a mysterious adventuress
disguised as a cat
114
00:06:04,859 --> 00:06:06,140
was already turning heads,
115
00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:07,900
but not the one
you might think.
116
00:06:07,979 --> 00:06:12,299
Miss Fury could be considered
as a kind of Catwoman,
117
00:06:12,379 --> 00:06:13,939
but the truth is
she was there first.
118
00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:16,059
Miss Fury was created,
119
00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:22,939
She beat Wonder Woman
120
00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:18,660
to the stands.
121
00:06:18,739 --> 00:06:22,939
by about six months, I think.
122
00:06:23,020 --> 00:06:27,340
She was created in 1941
by a woman also,
123
00:06:27,419 --> 00:06:30,379
which makes her really
the first woman,
124
00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:34,059
costumed action heroine
drawn by a woman,
125
00:06:34,140 --> 00:06:35,900
created and written by a woman,
126
00:06:35,979 --> 00:06:37,100
Tarpé Mills,
127
00:06:37,179 --> 00:06:39,700
who just happened to look
exactly like her heroine.
128
00:06:39,780 --> 00:06:42,539
She's a very wealthy woman.
129
00:06:42,619 --> 00:06:48,460
She's rich,
but she's very strong, too.
130
00:06:48,539 --> 00:06:52,179
She's a very humane character,
and she's a crime-fighter.
131
00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:58,499
She has a panther skin and at
one point she starts to wear it.
132
00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:03,859
At first,
she only pulls it on for fun.
133
00:07:03,939 --> 00:07:07,140
But then, things start to happen
134
00:07:07,220 --> 00:07:09,739
and she begins to show
extraordinary abilities.
135
00:07:09,820 --> 00:07:12,499
That's when she becomes
a superheroine.
136
00:07:12,580 --> 00:07:15,260
This picture, in particular,
137
00:07:15,340 --> 00:07:18,580
was done as a pin-up
for the troops,
138
00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:20,299
during the war.
139
00:07:20,379 --> 00:07:22,859
Miss Fury had a lot of fans.
140
00:07:22,939 --> 00:07:26,299
And G.I.s would write
her fan letters.
141
00:07:26,379 --> 00:07:28,900
And she had this picture
printed out,
142
00:07:28,979 --> 00:07:31,580
and she would send it to them
and sign it for them.
143
00:07:31,660 --> 00:07:34,739
Miss Fury is a heroine
144
00:07:34,820 --> 00:07:37,179
that I'm lucky
to be drawing right now.
145
00:07:37,260 --> 00:07:42,260
When they contacted me to draw
her, I said yes immediately,
146
00:07:42,340 --> 00:07:46,460
because she was not only drawn
147
00:07:46,539 --> 00:07:48,580
but also entirely created
by a woman in the 40s,
148
00:07:48,660 --> 00:07:55,859
a woman who succeeded as a
comic book artist at that time.
149
00:07:55,939 --> 00:07:59,900
This clearly inspired me
because, since the early 2000s,
150
00:07:59,979 --> 00:08:03,460
many female artists
have become famous.
151
00:08:03,539 --> 00:08:07,700
But, in the 40s,
it was much harder.
152
00:08:07,780 --> 00:08:11,580
The other reason
why I accepted this project
153
00:08:11,660 --> 00:08:14,619
is that it was an opportunity to
talk about June Tarpé Mills,
154
00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:17,979
who created Miss Fury.
155
00:08:18,059 --> 00:08:20,700
The poor thing died
in solitude and poverty,
156
00:08:20,780 --> 00:08:22,619
and it's not fair.
157
00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:25,539
It's not fair
that this woman was forgotten
158
00:08:25,619 --> 00:08:28,460
because she had so much talent.
159
00:08:42,659 --> 00:08:45,300
In 1941, America
was on the brink of war.
160
00:08:45,379 --> 00:08:48,820
Superheroines took their cue
from patriotic tradition,
161
00:08:48,899 --> 00:08:50,700
and most particularly
from Columbia,
162
00:08:50,779 --> 00:08:53,340
the female personification
of the United States,
163
00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:56,300
to find inspiration for
costumes reflecting the times.
164
00:08:56,379 --> 00:08:59,019
Wonder Woman first made
her appearance in this context.
165
00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:02,060
Wonder Woman was created
by William Moulton Marston
166
00:09:02,139 --> 00:09:04,739
using the pseudonym
Charles Moulton,
167
00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:08,659
and he specifically aimed it
at girls.
168
00:09:08,739 --> 00:09:11,820
He was quoted as saying,
169
00:09:11,899 --> 00:09:14,139
"Even girls don't want
to be girls."
170
00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:18,460
Because they don't get to do
all the exciting things boys do.
171
00:09:18,540 --> 00:09:22,979
So, he wanted to create
a role model for girls,
172
00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:28,499
to show that they could be
as good, better, than boys.
173
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:33,739
All they needed
174
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:30,739
was the training.
175
00:09:30,820 --> 00:09:33,739
was to work at it.
176
00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:35,139
And they could do it.
177
00:09:35,220 --> 00:09:37,379
We could all be Wonder Woman.
178
00:09:37,460 --> 00:09:38,499
At the end of the day,
179
00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:44,420
it's only doing what superhero
culture has been doing all along
180
00:09:44,499 --> 00:09:46,619
namely following
the evolutions of society
181
00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:48,739
and, ahead of time
or a little late,
182
00:09:48,820 --> 00:09:51,220
addressing those questions.
183
00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:53,820
All superheroines
are great characters,
184
00:09:53,899 --> 00:09:56,139
but they were minor characters,
185
00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:57,580
and Wonder Woman...
186
00:09:58,420 --> 00:10:00,739
She was an amazon.
187
00:10:00,820 --> 00:10:02,859
None of the others were amazons.
188
00:10:04,060 --> 00:10:07,100
And she hit
at just the right time,
189
00:10:07,180 --> 00:10:10,820
just as America
was about to go to war.
190
00:10:10,899 --> 00:10:15,259
Just as the war was starting,
she shows up.
191
00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:18,300
And she goes to the man's world
with Steve Trevor
192
00:10:18,379 --> 00:10:21,139
to fight the bad guys,
to fight the Axis.
193
00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:23,420
She was just
at the right moment.
194
00:10:23,499 --> 00:10:25,499
She was an amazon.
195
00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:26,779
She didn't fly.
196
00:10:26,859 --> 00:10:28,580
She didn't have superpowers.
197
00:10:28,659 --> 00:10:31,100
She had amazon training,
198
00:10:31,180 --> 00:10:35,220
which made her
the best possible athlete.
199
00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:37,700
She could run, she could leap,
200
00:10:37,779 --> 00:10:40,180
and she did them
all marvelously.
201
00:10:40,259 --> 00:10:43,619
And it didn't hurt
that she was also beautiful
202
00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:45,940
and that she was a princess.
203
00:10:46,019 --> 00:10:49,019
William Moulton
Marston was also a psychologist
204
00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:50,540
whose research contributed
205
00:10:50,619 --> 00:10:53,100
to the development
of the lie detector.
206
00:10:53,180 --> 00:10:55,580
In the comic,
Wonder Woman's golden lasso
207
00:10:55,659 --> 00:10:57,379
is an illustration
of that research.
208
00:10:57,460 --> 00:10:59,940
It is a magical variant
of the lie detector.
209
00:11:00,019 --> 00:11:02,499
Wonder Woman's creator
was also very ahead of his time
210
00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:04,180
with the amazon's love life.
211
00:11:04,259 --> 00:11:08,979
William Moulton Marston
hypothesized,
212
00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:13,259
or suggested
in a rather evident way,
213
00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:16,460
that she was an LGBT character.
214
00:11:16,540 --> 00:11:20,739
She was bisexual at least,
or pansexual.
215
00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:23,340
Later, depending
on her evolution
216
00:11:23,420 --> 00:11:26,060
and the people who wrote her,
217
00:11:26,139 --> 00:11:29,420
we had a lesbian Wonder Woman,
218
00:11:29,499 --> 00:11:32,259
a bisexual or pansexual
Wonder Woman,
219
00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,739
or a heterosexual Wonder Woman.
220
00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:36,659
If Wonder Woman's costume
221
00:11:36,739 --> 00:11:38,540
is based on the American flag,
222
00:11:38,619 --> 00:11:41,700
a large part
of her roots and appearance
223
00:11:41,779 --> 00:11:44,259
is grounded
in Greek and Roman mythology.
224
00:11:44,340 --> 00:11:46,580
This could explain
why this particular heroine
225
00:11:46,659 --> 00:11:48,259
quickly reached beyond borders
226
00:11:48,340 --> 00:11:50,139
and why today,
in Italy or elsewhere,
227
00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:53,580
female artists can work on her
with such ease.
228
00:11:53,659 --> 00:11:55,499
It's a concept
229
00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:58,540
that has been brought
to my attention many times,
230
00:11:58,619 --> 00:12:00,259
although being immersed in it,
231
00:12:00,340 --> 00:12:01,739
I am not
consciously aware of it.
232
00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:04,580
Many American colleagues
tell me,
233
00:12:04,659 --> 00:12:07,700
"You're so lucky
to have been born in a country
234
00:12:07,779 --> 00:12:10,259
with such a rich tradition
in art, ancient history...
235
00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:15,580
...and culture."
236
00:12:15,659 --> 00:12:20,060
Drawing Wonder Woman and
the island world of Themyscira
237
00:12:20,139 --> 00:12:22,420
has been relatively easy
for me.
238
00:12:22,499 --> 00:12:24,820
Wonder Woman
is most certainly a warrior,
239
00:12:24,899 --> 00:12:26,460
but she fights
for the greater good.
240
00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:31,220
She has to fight because
she's in the middle of a war,
241
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:34,739
but she never does it
in a perverse way
242
00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:37,259
or just to fight for herself.
243
00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:40,540
As soon as I was able
to cross two streets
244
00:12:40,619 --> 00:12:44,060
to get to the candy store
that sold comics,
245
00:12:44,139 --> 00:12:49,060
I would just look
at all the comics on the rack.
246
00:12:51,259 --> 00:12:53,060
Once a week,
I could buy a comic.
247
00:12:53,139 --> 00:12:55,220
I took my allowance
and I could buy a comic,
248
00:12:55,300 --> 00:13:00,180
and I would buy whatever comic
starred a woman.
249
00:13:00,259 --> 00:13:04,340
Whatever comic had a woman
or a girl on the cover
250
00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:05,820
who was powerful,
251
00:13:05,899 --> 00:13:08,859
not somebody
who was tied to a chair
252
00:13:08,940 --> 00:13:11,100
and waiting for a hero
to rescue her,
253
00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:15,580
but a woman who was
her own person, her own heroine,
254
00:13:15,659 --> 00:13:17,619
right there on the cover.
255
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:20,820
And it even helped
if that was her name,
256
00:13:20,899 --> 00:13:23,180
her name was the title
of the book.
257
00:13:23,259 --> 00:13:25,779
So, it wasn't just Wonder Woman
that I bought.
258
00:13:25,859 --> 00:13:28,619
I bought Sheena,
Queen of the Jungle.
259
00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:31,700
She really was my favorite
260
00:13:31,779 --> 00:13:34,540
because my fantasy
was to live in a treehouse
261
00:13:34,619 --> 00:13:35,979
with my pet chimpanzee,
262
00:13:36,060 --> 00:13:38,779
in the jungle
and wearing leopard skin.
263
00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:40,619
And I still love leopard skin.
264
00:13:41,220 --> 00:13:43,899
Wonder Woman's
success quickly paved the way
265
00:13:43,979 --> 00:13:45,820
for the appearance
of other superwomen,
266
00:13:45,899 --> 00:13:47,460
like the all-powerful
Mary Marvel
267
00:13:47,540 --> 00:13:50,700
whose sales soon rivalled
those of Wonder Woman.
268
00:13:50,779 --> 00:13:52,580
I bought Mary Marvel.
269
00:13:52,659 --> 00:13:54,979
She was a girl.
270
00:13:55,060 --> 00:13:57,340
She was Mary Batson,
271
00:13:57,420 --> 00:14:00,659
and all she had to do
was say the magic word "Shazam"
272
00:14:00,739 --> 00:14:02,820
and she became Mary Marvel.
273
00:14:02,899 --> 00:14:05,379
And Mary Marvel could fly.
274
00:14:05,460 --> 00:14:10,060
And bullets bounced off her,
and she had fists of iron.
275
00:14:10,139 --> 00:14:12,700
And she was only 12 years old
276
00:14:12,779 --> 00:14:16,619
which meant that you didn't have
to become a woman.
277
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:19,540
You could still be a girl
and have superpowers.
278
00:14:19,619 --> 00:14:25,619
So, I bought all the comics
that had female heroes.
279
00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:34,700
But during the 50s,
280
00:14:34,779 --> 00:14:36,659
things began to take
a backwards slide.
281
00:14:36,739 --> 00:14:39,899
Even Supergirl's spectacular
debut wasn't a step forward,
282
00:14:39,979 --> 00:14:41,460
at least at first.
283
00:14:42,019 --> 00:14:43,739
Supergirl was...
284
00:14:44,540 --> 00:14:47,379
She was so tame, really,
you know?
285
00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:50,420
Her cousin, Superman, told her
286
00:14:50,499 --> 00:14:53,499
that the world must not know
about her, you know,
287
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:56,379
so she kept herself secret.
288
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:59,940
And she lived in an orphanage,
for God's sake.
289
00:15:01,899 --> 00:15:03,820
She never interested me.
290
00:15:03,899 --> 00:15:09,379
She was only really
Superman's sidekick at the time.
291
00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:11,540
She wasn't
a very interesting character,
292
00:15:11,619 --> 00:15:14,019
except to expand
Superman's universe
293
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,940
with what we call
the Super Family.
294
00:15:17,019 --> 00:15:18,499
The war was over.
295
00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:20,859
War had been over for 20 years,
296
00:15:20,940 --> 00:15:24,220
and women had been driven back.
297
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,300
All these wonderful things
they had done,
298
00:15:27,379 --> 00:15:30,499
you know, driving the trucks,
and working in the factories,
299
00:15:30,580 --> 00:15:35,580
and making ships and planes,
and flying planes.
300
00:15:35,659 --> 00:15:36,859
That was over.
301
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:39,019
They've been sent back
to the kitchen.
302
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,940
The guys came back
and got their old jobs back.
303
00:15:42,019 --> 00:15:44,899
This is evident throughout
all the comics of that period,
304
00:15:44,979 --> 00:15:46,979
even with another heroine
like Wonder Woman.
305
00:15:47,060 --> 00:15:50,540
It really was a peculiar era
306
00:15:50,619 --> 00:15:54,499
in terms of how female
characters were represented.
307
00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:05,220
The 60s also saw the arrival
308
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:07,100
of a new generation
of superheroines
309
00:16:07,180 --> 00:16:08,499
created by Marvel.
310
00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:11,739
But at first,
they were limited to unexciting,
311
00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:13,340
almost invisible roles.
312
00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:17,379
I think, for me,
the basic rationale was,
313
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:20,180
I looked at all these teams.
314
00:16:20,259 --> 00:16:21,580
I looked at the Fantastic Four.
315
00:16:21,659 --> 00:16:22,979
I looked at the Justice League.
316
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:25,379
I looked at the Avengers.
317
00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:29,820
And they were all predominantly
white men.
318
00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:32,340
With a girl.
319
00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:34,499
And it was always a girl.
320
00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:35,940
Marvel Girl.
321
00:16:36,019 --> 00:16:37,139
Supergirl.
322
00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:38,540
Aquagirl.
323
00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:40,739
The Invisible Girl!
324
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:45,300
There'd always be one girl,
and she had the least powers.
325
00:16:45,379 --> 00:16:48,940
She didn't run around and jump
and punch people out.
326
00:16:49,019 --> 00:16:50,019
I mean, think about it.
327
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:54,019
The Fantastic Four
is the core hero group
328
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:56,420
in the Marvel universe.
329
00:16:56,499 --> 00:16:57,820
They are the foundation
330
00:16:57,899 --> 00:17:02,019
upon which all the subsequent
heroes derived.
331
00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:03,379
Mr. Fantastic.
332
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:07,100
He's brilliant, he stretches,
he's a cool guy.
333
00:17:07,179 --> 00:17:08,300
The Thing.
334
00:17:08,379 --> 00:17:12,219
A giant monster,
the heart of the quartet.
335
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:13,859
Johnny Storm.
336
00:17:13,939 --> 00:17:15,899
He catches fire
337
00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:19,939
and races around the world
to save things.
338
00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:21,419
And Sue...
339
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:23,139
What is Sue Storm?
340
00:17:23,219 --> 00:17:25,179
She turns invisible.
341
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:28,340
She vanishes. She disappears.
342
00:17:28,419 --> 00:17:33,540
It is, intentionally or not,
the most powerful metaphor
343
00:17:33,619 --> 00:17:37,820
for how the world
tended to view women,
344
00:17:37,899 --> 00:17:41,580
and women in the workplace
at that era.
345
00:17:41,659 --> 00:17:42,820
They were invisible.
346
00:17:42,899 --> 00:17:46,859
Oh, the Wasp, she's this tiny,
little character, you know?
347
00:17:46,939 --> 00:17:48,100
And what do they do?
348
00:17:48,179 --> 00:17:49,540
They go shopping a lot.
349
00:17:49,619 --> 00:17:52,980
You see this in the comics
of the period.
350
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:56,980
Although I believe that Stan Lee
and Jack Kirby both thought
351
00:17:57,060 --> 00:18:00,179
that they were doing
the modern woman, you know?
352
00:18:00,260 --> 00:18:04,179
They really did think this,
but they were guys.
353
00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:06,179
There were no women involved!
354
00:18:07,659 --> 00:18:09,219
At the end of the day,
355
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:13,419
truly independent heroines in
the 60s were mostly 'bad girls',
356
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:16,139
like Catwoman or Poison Ivy.
357
00:18:16,699 --> 00:18:22,659
The very first time I saw Poison
Ivy was many years ago.
358
00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:25,020
It was in the cartoon
359
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:27,500
in which Harley Quinn appears
for the first time.
360
00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:29,179
In the French version
of this cartoon,
361
00:18:29,260 --> 00:18:32,939
Poison Ivy was called
"the Poisoner"
362
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:36,659
and I really liked her.
363
00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:39,540
Even if she's a little
too extreme
364
00:18:39,619 --> 00:18:42,020
in what she says and does,
365
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:46,139
she really wants Nature
to take back its rightful place,
366
00:18:46,219 --> 00:18:49,699
and she thinks
that men damage Nature.
367
00:18:49,780 --> 00:18:52,379
This is something
I really like about her,
368
00:18:52,459 --> 00:18:55,659
even if she should
temper her actions.
369
00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:58,859
Today, Poison Ivy would probably
be considered a superheroine,
370
00:18:58,939 --> 00:19:00,939
because Nature
needs to be protected!
371
00:19:01,020 --> 00:19:04,899
But still, she does have
a rather evil side.
372
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:11,740
Meanwhile,
far from mainstream books,
373
00:19:11,820 --> 00:19:14,379
American comics
began to present heroines
374
00:19:14,459 --> 00:19:17,100
enjoying much greater freedom
in magazines
375
00:19:17,179 --> 00:19:18,459
for an older readership.
376
00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:20,020
At the end of the 60s,
377
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:22,740
Warren Publishing
launched the adventures
378
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:25,939
of a bikini-clad bloodsucker,
Vampirella.
379
00:19:26,020 --> 00:19:29,980
Well, really, my only part in
the creation of Vampirella was,
380
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:31,740
I designed her costume.
381
00:19:31,820 --> 00:19:33,899
And the costume, by the way,
that I designed
382
00:19:33,980 --> 00:19:37,820
was not as brief
as this little red ribbon
383
00:19:37,899 --> 00:19:39,340
that she wears these days.
384
00:19:39,419 --> 00:19:40,459
It wasn't a comic.
385
00:19:40,540 --> 00:19:45,540
It was really a comic magazine
published by Jim Warren.
386
00:19:45,619 --> 00:19:51,179
And it was the first of these
books that starred a woman,
387
00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:54,379
Vampirella,
who told the stories
388
00:19:54,459 --> 00:19:57,699
and who also took part
in the stories.
389
00:19:57,780 --> 00:20:03,139
And that was very revolutionary
for comics in 1969.
390
00:20:03,219 --> 00:20:04,580
I really love Vampirella.
391
00:20:04,659 --> 00:20:06,619
That's partly because
she's a vampire,
392
00:20:06,699 --> 00:20:08,939
and vampires fascinate me.
393
00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:13,139
They always have because
they can do whatever they like.
394
00:20:13,219 --> 00:20:17,619
So, they're rather
sexual characters.
395
00:20:17,699 --> 00:20:20,500
They're mesmerizing,
and they're charming.
396
00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:22,540
It's therefore natural
397
00:20:22,619 --> 00:20:27,219
that their clothes reflect
that sexy side.
398
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:28,500
You have to know
399
00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:32,780
that she has been exaggerated
and exaggerated and exaggerated,
400
00:20:32,859 --> 00:20:34,820
as the years go by.
401
00:20:34,899 --> 00:20:40,500
So, she really does not, today,
bear any resemblance,
402
00:20:40,580 --> 00:20:42,219
as far as I'm concerned,
403
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,780
to the costume that I created.
404
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:49,740
She was beautifully drawn
in those days
405
00:20:49,820 --> 00:20:52,899
by Spanish artists,
Filipino artists.
406
00:20:54,820 --> 00:20:59,740
For the time, she was
a revolutionary character.
407
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:03,500
In those comics, they didn't
really deal with sex very much,
408
00:21:03,580 --> 00:21:06,139
but she was certainly
a sexy creature.
409
00:21:06,219 --> 00:21:08,219
True activism made its way
410
00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:10,939
through fanzines
and underground comics.
411
00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:16,659
In 1973, Trina Robbins brought
an icon from World War II,
412
00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:18,780
Rosie the Riveter,
back to life in her comics
413
00:21:18,859 --> 00:21:20,179
to give her new relevance
414
00:21:20,260 --> 00:21:22,060
in the context
of women's liberation.
415
00:21:22,139 --> 00:21:26,859
Rosie the Riveter, she's become
much more well-known now.
416
00:21:26,939 --> 00:21:28,419
She's famous, in fact.
417
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:30,419
Everyone knows
Rosie the Riveter.
418
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,419
But at the time, people had
kind of forgotten her.
419
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:38,459
But she represented
the strength of women
420
00:21:38,540 --> 00:21:41,100
during World War II, you know?
421
00:21:41,179 --> 00:21:44,659
When suddenly women were taken
out of their homes
422
00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:48,379
and working in factories,
making planes,
423
00:21:48,459 --> 00:21:52,179
making ships,
even flying the planes.
424
00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:54,300
That's what she represented.
425
00:21:54,379 --> 00:21:58,139
That wonderful period
during the war,
426
00:21:58,219 --> 00:22:00,659
when women were
as strong as men,
427
00:22:00,740 --> 00:22:04,419
when women did all the things
that men had done before.
428
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:06,780
Trina Robbins
is a personal icon.
429
00:22:06,859 --> 00:22:10,740
She's a living symbol
of feminism in comics.
430
00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:12,260
She's a real pioneer.
431
00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:14,340
She took the first step
432
00:22:14,419 --> 00:22:16,899
to turn the spotlight
on feminism in comics,
433
00:22:16,980 --> 00:22:19,780
when independent comics
began to appear in the 70s
434
00:22:19,859 --> 00:22:21,139
in San Francisco.
435
00:22:21,219 --> 00:22:24,580
She's a figurehead for
a whole comic book movement.
436
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:27,379
Next to Vampirella or Rosie,
437
00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:30,260
traditional superheroines
seemed outdated.
438
00:22:30,340 --> 00:22:32,699
A young beginner writer
called Chris Claremont
439
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:34,899
became part
of a new generation of writers
440
00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:37,139
who decided
to shake things up.
441
00:22:37,219 --> 00:22:41,139
When I came aboard at Marvel,
ten years later,
442
00:22:41,219 --> 00:22:44,300
roughly ten years later,
very little had changed.
443
00:22:44,379 --> 00:22:48,179
Women were still primarily
an afterthought.
444
00:22:48,260 --> 00:22:50,619
With comic book
artist Dave Cockrum,
445
00:22:50,699 --> 00:22:53,260
Chris Claremont was rapidly
put in charge
446
00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,540
of producing new episodes
for X-Men.
447
00:22:55,619 --> 00:22:57,100
Female characters in the series
448
00:22:57,179 --> 00:22:59,419
quickly became
varied and strong.
449
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:03,580
Mature or teenage,
powerful or even controlling,
450
00:23:03,659 --> 00:23:06,820
heroines acquired
a diversity of profiles.
451
00:23:06,899 --> 00:23:08,659
The point here is...
452
00:23:08,740 --> 00:23:13,300
I know women who are courageous,
who are smart,
453
00:23:13,379 --> 00:23:18,500
who are all of the attributes
of a superhero,
454
00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:22,219
except for one element,
their gender.
455
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:26,139
So, I thought,
no one else is doing it,
456
00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:29,419
I'll take a shot
and see what happens.
457
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:32,219
So, I found, with the X-Men,
458
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:33,980
especially with the X-Men
459
00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:39,500
that Dave Cockrum and Len Wein
created in Giant-Size No.1,
460
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:43,740
not only a diversity of gender,
461
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:46,060
in Ororo and Jean,
462
00:23:46,139 --> 00:23:50,939
but of societal, racial gender.
463
00:23:51,020 --> 00:23:52,899
Seven years after the death
464
00:23:52,980 --> 00:23:53,980
of Martin Luther King,
465
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:57,419
Ororo a.k.a. Storm
brought new changes.
466
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,100
For the first time,
467
00:23:59,179 --> 00:24:02,899
a black woman became a regular
member of a superhero team.
468
00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:04,780
Under Chris Claremont's
leadership,
469
00:24:04,859 --> 00:24:07,619
this heroine evolved
to the point of becoming
470
00:24:07,699 --> 00:24:09,780
a leader of the team
a few years later.
471
00:24:09,859 --> 00:24:11,820
Basically,
I gave shape to Storm
472
00:24:11,899 --> 00:24:13,820
the way I give shape
to all characters,
473
00:24:13,899 --> 00:24:15,820
which is look at them
474
00:24:15,899 --> 00:24:19,139
and try to imagine
who they are as people.
475
00:24:19,219 --> 00:24:24,899
Ororo has spent her adolescence
on top of Mount Kilimanjaro
476
00:24:24,980 --> 00:24:28,379
or a reasonable fac-simile,
in Kenya,
477
00:24:28,459 --> 00:24:30,780
being worshipped as a goddess,
478
00:24:30,859 --> 00:24:35,340
which is somewhat removed
from the reality of Kenya but...
479
00:24:35,419 --> 00:24:36,500
That's comics.
480
00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:38,500
And suddenly, she is uprooted
481
00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:42,100
and brought over
to the first world.
482
00:24:42,179 --> 00:24:45,379
If I had to mention one comic,
it would be X-Men.
483
00:24:45,459 --> 00:24:47,100
It's my favorite
superhero series.
484
00:24:47,179 --> 00:24:50,139
It's wonderful.
485
00:24:50,219 --> 00:24:53,179
The characters...
Everyone can identify.
486
00:24:53,260 --> 00:24:55,419
It was fun.
487
00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:02,379
She was distinct because she was
a leader of the X-Men team.
488
00:25:02,459 --> 00:25:05,820
Although I may have been exposed
to other X-Men members,
489
00:25:05,899 --> 00:25:10,659
it was very fascinating to see
a woman in a leadership role
490
00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:12,300
with that much power.
491
00:25:12,379 --> 00:25:14,219
With Ororo, it's more personal
492
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:16,740
because her father
is from New York.
493
00:25:17,899 --> 00:25:22,820
But it takes time
for her to arrive
494
00:25:22,899 --> 00:25:25,619
at what that realization means.
495
00:25:25,699 --> 00:25:28,100
John Byrne and I did a story
496
00:25:28,179 --> 00:25:32,379
where she goes to what
she remembers as her home
497
00:25:32,459 --> 00:25:34,540
in New York City, in Harlem.
498
00:25:34,619 --> 00:25:37,699
And what she remembers
as a loving apartment
499
00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:40,379
has now become a drug den,
500
00:25:40,459 --> 00:25:43,139
full of young adolescents
501
00:25:43,219 --> 00:25:47,139
overdosing on crack and heroin.
502
00:25:47,219 --> 00:25:50,459
It is a voyage of discovery.
503
00:25:51,179 --> 00:25:53,699
For her,
as with all the characters,
504
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:55,100
it's dealing with them
505
00:25:55,179 --> 00:26:01,179
as I imagine real people would
act in a similar situation.
506
00:26:01,260 --> 00:26:04,100
The change and
revival brought about by Storm
507
00:26:04,179 --> 00:26:05,899
was only the beginning
of a new wave.
508
00:26:05,980 --> 00:26:07,179
With new recruits,
509
00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:09,980
Chris Claremont diversified
female character profiles.
510
00:26:10,060 --> 00:26:12,179
Before then,
within a given comic book panel,
511
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:13,980
heroines were
mostly distinguished
512
00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:15,139
by their hair colour.
513
00:26:15,219 --> 00:26:17,699
From that point on,
female members of the X-Men
514
00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:21,899
cultivated diversity in terms
of race, shape, and age.
515
00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:27,300
Yeah, probably Kitty Pryde and
Rachel Summers from Excalibur,
516
00:26:27,379 --> 00:26:31,740
because I think
that how I see female characters
517
00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:35,580
is very close to the work
of Chris Claremont.
518
00:26:36,459 --> 00:26:39,139
The reader response was varied.
519
00:26:39,219 --> 00:26:43,500
Some readers felt, "How come
you're writing so many girls?"
520
00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:48,899
I went to work on an X-Men book
with the X-Women.
521
00:26:48,980 --> 00:26:54,060
And I was so lucky because
we had the chance of doing X-Men
522
00:26:54,139 --> 00:26:58,379
with an all-female
character roster.
523
00:26:59,419 --> 00:27:02,300
The only guy was Colossus.
524
00:27:03,699 --> 00:27:06,580
I didn't have to make
too many sketches
525
00:27:06,659 --> 00:27:10,659
to find my Storm
or to find my Psylocke,
526
00:27:10,740 --> 00:27:12,699
or to find my Rogue.
527
00:27:12,780 --> 00:27:15,419
They were already there.
528
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,100
The idea has always been
529
00:27:18,179 --> 00:27:22,859
to look on these characters
not as characters,
530
00:27:22,939 --> 00:27:28,419
not as functions
of a defined paradigm,
531
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,500
but as people who can grow,
532
00:27:31,580 --> 00:27:34,899
who can change,
who can surprise you.
533
00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:37,100
The way women
began to take power
534
00:27:37,179 --> 00:27:40,580
is perfectly illustrated
by Jean Grey,
535
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:43,379
formerly one of the weakest
members of the X-Men
536
00:27:43,459 --> 00:27:45,859
but then reinvented as Phoenix,
537
00:27:45,939 --> 00:27:48,939
the most powerful being
in the Universe.
538
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:52,020
The Saga of the Phoenix
and then of the Dark Phoenix
539
00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:53,100
remains, to this day,
540
00:27:53,179 --> 00:27:56,540
one of the most famous stories
of the X-Men series,
541
00:27:56,619 --> 00:27:59,899
marking many generations
of male and female readers.
542
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:03,060
Jean became Phoenix.
543
00:28:03,139 --> 00:28:07,740
Phoenix, within eight issues
of that transformation,
544
00:28:07,820 --> 00:28:10,300
saved the universe.
545
00:28:11,060 --> 00:28:13,060
That is not a small thing.
546
00:28:13,139 --> 00:28:19,020
She saved every living being
in Creation at that time.
547
00:28:19,780 --> 00:28:21,580
No hero had ever done that.
548
00:28:22,419 --> 00:28:27,419
And yet, within 25 issues,
549
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,859
Phoenix became Dark Phoenix
and she destroyed a world.
550
00:28:32,939 --> 00:28:36,899
She killed eight billion,
six billion people.
551
00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:39,540
That action had consequences.
552
00:28:39,619 --> 00:28:43,740
It didn't matter
that she saved the universe.
553
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:49,740
She did something unforgivable
that had to be atoned for.
554
00:28:49,820 --> 00:28:54,300
And the nice thing was that,
555
00:28:54,379 --> 00:28:57,300
for women characters,
556
00:28:57,379 --> 00:29:02,459
because they were new and the
readers weren't expecting them,
557
00:29:02,540 --> 00:29:07,780
their journeys could be
more dramatically portrayed.
558
00:29:08,659 --> 00:29:12,219
Changing Cyclops is a challenge
559
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:16,379
because he'd existed for ten
years before I came on board.
560
00:29:16,459 --> 00:29:19,500
Whereas with Ororo,
she was brand new.
561
00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,939
Jean, by the time
I was done with her,
562
00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:24,260
was brand new, as Phoenix.
563
00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:26,260
Kitty was brand new.
564
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:28,500
Rogue was brand new.
565
00:29:28,580 --> 00:29:30,699
There were
all these opportunities
566
00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:35,100
to change and to build
a new reality around the team,
567
00:29:35,179 --> 00:29:36,939
a reality which reached out
568
00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:41,780
to so many different aspects
of the audience,
569
00:29:41,859 --> 00:29:48,459
people who hadn't seen anything
like themselves in the X-Men.
570
00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:54,179
Minorities bonded with the team
to a remarkable extant.
571
00:29:54,939 --> 00:29:57,899
While women in the
X-Men series were emancipating,
572
00:29:57,980 --> 00:30:00,859
a feminist icon in comic books
returned to the fore
573
00:30:00,939 --> 00:30:02,300
through the TV series
574
00:30:02,379 --> 00:30:04,820
in which Lynda Carter
plays Wonder Woman.
575
00:30:04,899 --> 00:30:06,179
Thanks to Lynda Carter,
576
00:30:06,260 --> 00:30:09,219
Wonder Woman became a symbol
for several generations.
577
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:14,939
The Wonder Woman TV series is
very important even for comics,
578
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:16,300
for comic book creators
579
00:30:16,379 --> 00:30:21,580
who, still today, claim
the legacy of Lynda Carter,
580
00:30:21,659 --> 00:30:27,300
a character that really marked
American minds and even beyond.
581
00:30:27,379 --> 00:30:29,540
The series dates back to 1975
582
00:30:29,619 --> 00:30:33,219
and the context
of women's rights
583
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:37,459
and the minorities' rights
584
00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:39,740
and civil rights movements
in the United States.
585
00:30:39,820 --> 00:30:42,459
This series really puts forward
a feminist agenda.
586
00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:46,980
It's very clear, very explicit,
as early as the first episode,
587
00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:49,219
and even the pilot episode
of the series,
588
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,459
in which Wonder Woman,
played by Lynda Carter,
589
00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:55,219
says that
matriarchy will save the world.
590
00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:58,340
But, other fervent
super-feminists began to appear
591
00:30:58,419 --> 00:30:59,619
besides Wonder Woman.
592
00:30:59,699 --> 00:31:00,859
Aware of lost time,
593
00:31:00,939 --> 00:31:04,379
Marvel Comics launched
a new wave of comics
594
00:31:04,459 --> 00:31:06,659
such as Spider-Woman
and She-Hulk,
595
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:09,939
all variations
of existing male heroes.
596
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:12,219
One of these new characters
is Carol Danvers,
597
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:14,340
first known as Ms. Marvel.
598
00:31:14,419 --> 00:31:15,500
In this version,
599
00:31:15,580 --> 00:31:17,300
she is first described
as the editor
600
00:31:17,379 --> 00:31:20,219
of a feminist magazine
called Woman.
601
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,060
Then you had
Jim Starlin's Captain Marvel
602
00:31:23,139 --> 00:31:27,500
with the best costume in comics
for a superhero.
603
00:31:27,580 --> 00:31:29,219
It was great!
604
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:32,020
And then, for Ms. Marvel,
605
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,179
they just put that costume
on a woman.
606
00:31:35,139 --> 00:31:36,699
Except...
607
00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:41,260
This is where the train begins
to go off the rail a little.
608
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:46,500
If you look
at a comic book male body,
609
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:48,859
it is a perfect triangle.
610
00:31:48,939 --> 00:31:51,020
You have the broad shoulders
611
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:56,419
and this ferocious descent
to the hips.
612
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,939
And wow!
613
00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:02,139
You look at that and you think,
"Oh, baby, he's a hunk!'"
614
00:32:02,219 --> 00:32:04,859
But when you put
that same design
615
00:32:04,939 --> 00:32:06,379
on a woman's body,
616
00:32:06,459 --> 00:32:08,540
you run into problems.
617
00:32:08,619 --> 00:32:12,260
The reality was,
she's 29 years old.
618
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:15,379
So, here's a woman who's 29
619
00:32:15,459 --> 00:32:19,379
and, in her life,
she's been a secret agent,
620
00:32:19,459 --> 00:32:22,820
chief of security
at Kennedy Space Center,
621
00:32:22,899 --> 00:32:24,780
thrown out of the Air Force.
622
00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:28,179
She becomes the editor-in-chief
of Woman Magazine.
623
00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:31,820
She has done
in a half dozen years
624
00:32:31,899 --> 00:32:35,500
what most of the rest of us
625
00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:40,379
would devote a lifetime,
an entire career, to achieving.
626
00:32:40,459 --> 00:32:42,419
And she isn't even 30 yet!
627
00:32:46,139 --> 00:32:48,859
When superheroes
began to appear in cinemas,
628
00:32:48,939 --> 00:32:51,020
superwomen swiftly followed.
629
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:52,659
After Superman,
630
00:32:52,740 --> 00:32:56,500
Hollywood decided to devote
an entire film to Supergirl.
631
00:32:56,580 --> 00:33:00,379
However, the results
were rather mixed.
632
00:33:00,459 --> 00:33:03,619
When the movie Supergirl
was released in the early 80s,
633
00:33:03,699 --> 00:33:05,260
it was on the heels
of the success
634
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:07,699
of Superman
with Christopher Reeve,
635
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:10,659
a movie we know, and that was
the first big superhero movie
636
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:12,260
shown in theaters.
637
00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:14,100
And what's interesting
about Supergirl
638
00:33:14,179 --> 00:33:15,459
is seeing how a character
639
00:33:15,540 --> 00:33:18,100
with exactly the same powers
and skills as Superman,
640
00:33:18,179 --> 00:33:19,980
so, Supergirl, his cousin,
641
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:22,699
was not at all portrayed
in the same way
642
00:33:22,780 --> 00:33:24,540
and did not do the same things.
643
00:33:24,619 --> 00:33:27,419
When she arrives on Earth,
in order to try out her eyes,
644
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:29,219
the rays that beam out
from her eyes,
645
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:34,419
instead of destroying rocks
or something else as impressive,
646
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:37,340
she makes a little flower grow
using her eyes,
647
00:33:37,419 --> 00:33:40,260
because of course, all girls
love flowers, don't they?
648
00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:43,580
So, she makes a daisy grow
using her eyes.
649
00:33:43,659 --> 00:33:45,100
And when Supergirl flies,
650
00:33:45,179 --> 00:33:48,580
it's not fist forwards
like a warrior,
651
00:33:48,659 --> 00:33:50,300
like a conqueror,
like Superman.
652
00:33:50,379 --> 00:33:53,699
No, she flits,
she's very graceful,
653
00:33:53,780 --> 00:33:57,020
probably because she did ballet
as a girl, like all girls,.
654
00:33:57,100 --> 00:33:59,659
It's worth
mentioning that, for decades,
655
00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:02,820
most superheroines
had been created by men.
656
00:34:02,899 --> 00:34:08,100
Even Wonder Woman had to wait
40 years after her debut
657
00:34:08,179 --> 00:34:12,219
for a woman to finally be able
to illustrate her adventures.
658
00:34:12,299 --> 00:34:14,940
So, yes, I drew
the first Wonder Woman.
659
00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:16,860
Why did it take so long?
660
00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:19,219
Because comics, comic books,
661
00:34:19,299 --> 00:34:22,139
have traditionally been
male-oriented.
662
00:34:22,219 --> 00:34:24,380
I mean, she was created
by a man.
663
00:34:24,460 --> 00:34:26,860
He was a super-feminist,
you know,
664
00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:28,739
William Moulton Marston.
665
00:34:28,819 --> 00:34:31,380
And he really... In fact,
666
00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:35,860
I believe that he thought
women were better than men.
667
00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:39,139
He was definitely
a super-feminist.
668
00:34:39,219 --> 00:34:42,659
But she was created by a man,
669
00:34:42,739 --> 00:34:46,179
and she had been written by men
and drawn by men,
670
00:34:46,259 --> 00:34:49,259
because that was
the comics' tradition.
671
00:34:49,339 --> 00:34:52,380
And I just happened to be around
672
00:34:52,460 --> 00:34:55,739
when the tradition
was starting to be broken
673
00:34:55,819 --> 00:34:59,699
and women were
finally, finally, very slowly,
674
00:34:59,779 --> 00:35:01,179
getting into comics.
675
00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:04,100
The door opened
by Trina Robbins
676
00:35:04,179 --> 00:35:06,179
paved the way for women
to play a bigger role
677
00:35:06,259 --> 00:35:08,259
in writing and illustrating
comic books.
678
00:35:08,339 --> 00:35:11,020
So, I made the decision
to draw comics,
679
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,139
actually knowing nothing
about the industry
680
00:35:14,219 --> 00:35:16,179
or how to do the job,
681
00:35:16,259 --> 00:35:19,299
or the art
of sequential storytelling.
682
00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:23,420
So, to sort of make it happen,
I just had to push myself
683
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:25,860
and learn as fast as possible,
684
00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:28,699
make sure I was
challenging myself all the time,
685
00:35:28,779 --> 00:35:31,100
asking a lot of questions,
686
00:35:31,179 --> 00:35:33,299
sometimes
really dumb questions,
687
00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:36,179
so that I could get informed
and get better.
688
00:35:36,259 --> 00:35:37,900
And constantly drawing,
689
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:41,860
constantly trying to stick
to short jobs,
690
00:35:41,940 --> 00:35:45,060
so that I could evolve quickly,
691
00:35:45,139 --> 00:35:48,980
and making sure
that I put myself out there
692
00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:52,259
and not be shy or embarrassed,
693
00:35:52,339 --> 00:35:56,219
just be arrogant
694
00:35:56,299 --> 00:35:59,339
about the potential
of my ability.
695
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,219
I don't know
that it was difficult for me
696
00:36:02,299 --> 00:36:03,739
to break in as a woman,
697
00:36:03,819 --> 00:36:10,020
and I know that my story
is a little unique in that way
698
00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,020
because I know
a lot of my female peers
699
00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:14,219
have had a slightly harder time,
700
00:36:14,299 --> 00:36:17,420
or a much harder time,
depending.
701
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:21,219
For me, I think
it was a combination
702
00:36:21,299 --> 00:36:23,299
of being a little older
when I started...
703
00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:27,420
I was already in my late 20s,
early 30s, when I was starting.
704
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:31,739
...coupled with the fact that
being an Australian in America,
705
00:36:31,819 --> 00:36:35,420
and also I'm kind of loud,
and bossy and tall.
706
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:40,139
And, so, people kind of were...
707
00:36:42,020 --> 00:36:46,819
...a little surprised to see me.
708
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,699
While Supergirl's
first appearance in cinemas
709
00:36:49,779 --> 00:36:51,259
was a missed opportunity,
710
00:36:51,339 --> 00:36:52,699
another character stepped in
711
00:36:52,779 --> 00:36:55,139
to represent women's rights
on the big screen.
712
00:36:55,219 --> 00:36:58,380
Catwoman became
more than just a criminal.
713
00:36:58,460 --> 00:37:01,219
I was moved by Catwoman
714
00:37:01,299 --> 00:37:04,100
because her journey
is not cliché, to my mind.
715
00:37:04,179 --> 00:37:05,940
Her story doesn't
give the impression
716
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:08,900
of showing a revelation
or a political act,
717
00:37:08,980 --> 00:37:10,540
and, in the end,
it does become one
718
00:37:10,619 --> 00:37:12,219
because no one wants
to show it.
719
00:37:12,299 --> 00:37:13,299
In fact, Catwoman,
720
00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:14,940
who was first
an enemy of Batman,
721
00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:19,020
appeared before Miss Fury but
with a very different disguise.
722
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,699
She gradually drew inspiration
from Miss Fury
723
00:37:21,779 --> 00:37:24,819
and finally acquired the
costume we know her to wear.
724
00:37:25,299 --> 00:37:27,699
She most closely resembles
my own character.
725
00:37:27,779 --> 00:37:29,699
I love her costume.
726
00:37:29,779 --> 00:37:34,619
I love her whole personality.
727
00:37:35,179 --> 00:37:39,500
I drew Catwoman
for 30 issues in a row.
728
00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:44,460
That's 22 pages,
so that's 440...
729
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:49,500
660 pages of Catwoman.
730
00:37:49,580 --> 00:37:52,580
I made those many pages
731
00:37:52,659 --> 00:37:55,460
for two years and a half.
732
00:37:55,540 --> 00:37:59,339
It was my daily job,
and it was super cool.
733
00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:03,060
She is sexy, and at the same
time, she is quite free.
734
00:38:03,139 --> 00:38:04,420
She has a bold personality.
735
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:06,659
She is independent.
I really like this character.
736
00:38:06,739 --> 00:38:08,540
All the while,
she remains very feminine.
737
00:38:08,619 --> 00:38:12,460
For me, Catwoman is Tim Burton.
It's Tim Burton,
738
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:15,540
and it's especially Michelle
Pfeiffer in Batman Returns.
739
00:38:15,619 --> 00:38:17,259
That was around 1992.
740
00:38:17,339 --> 00:38:23,540
She's really a superwoman
between good and evil.
741
00:38:23,619 --> 00:38:25,259
She's a super-feminist,
742
00:38:25,339 --> 00:38:27,659
she defends women
who are attacked in the streets,
743
00:38:27,739 --> 00:38:30,299
and she defies Batman.
744
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:32,779
For me, she's the perfect
superheroine.
745
00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:35,139
I think it's modern poetry,
actually.
746
00:38:35,219 --> 00:38:38,860
It is about how
a being is suffocated
747
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:40,940
to the point of forgetting
they even exist,
748
00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:43,580
and about how they awaken
to who they really are.
749
00:38:43,659 --> 00:38:45,460
It's a bit cliché of course,
750
00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:49,779
and it reflects the values
of the early 90s
751
00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:53,259
so, women are represented
in a very particular way.
752
00:38:53,339 --> 00:38:54,339
But at the end of the day,
753
00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:56,500
because the character
is played by an actress
754
00:38:56,580 --> 00:38:58,900
who is portrays her brilliantly,
755
00:38:58,980 --> 00:39:00,699
it's not cliché after all.
756
00:39:00,779 --> 00:39:02,699
And what's great about Catwoman
757
00:39:02,779 --> 00:39:04,540
is the fact
that she has a real life.
758
00:39:04,619 --> 00:39:06,860
She works, she has a boss,
759
00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:09,500
and like many women in real life
and many people in real life,
760
00:39:09,580 --> 00:39:13,179
she is harassed by her boss.
He throws her out the window,
761
00:39:13,259 --> 00:39:15,900
so, of course, that's a bit
more extreme than in real life.
762
00:39:15,980 --> 00:39:18,980
With Catwoman's character
in the movie by Tim Burton,
763
00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:21,460
what's great is that
she actually reclaims
764
00:39:21,540 --> 00:39:24,380
the artifices of femininity
765
00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:26,779
and everything
that's supposed to oppress her,
766
00:39:26,860 --> 00:39:30,779
like the clichés
that women sow,
767
00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:36,739
that women have to be
gentle and sweet.
768
00:39:36,819 --> 00:39:40,020
Catwoman, Selina Kyle,
actually, reclaims all that
769
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:41,259
to make her costume.
770
00:39:41,339 --> 00:39:43,940
And we see it in
her amazing transformation scene
771
00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:45,339
where she gets home
772
00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:48,420
after being thrown out the
window by her boss, Max Shreck.
773
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,699
She gets home,
paints her whole house black,
774
00:39:51,779 --> 00:39:55,580
brings out her sowing machine,
and makes her costume.
775
00:39:55,659 --> 00:39:59,380
She reclaims what was a cliché
of traditional femininity
776
00:39:59,460 --> 00:40:01,020
to make a weapon,
777
00:40:01,100 --> 00:40:05,139
and she makes her costume
out of vinyl patchwork
778
00:40:05,219 --> 00:40:08,580
and creates her claws
at the end of her fingers.
779
00:40:08,659 --> 00:40:11,580
Her claws are made
of elements used for sowing,
780
00:40:11,659 --> 00:40:13,779
sowing machine spools.
781
00:40:13,860 --> 00:40:15,900
So, she really
reclaims everything
782
00:40:15,980 --> 00:40:18,779
that makes up
the oppression of women.
783
00:40:18,860 --> 00:40:21,100
And she rules the movie
by Tim Burton, in fact,
784
00:40:21,179 --> 00:40:24,100
something that future Catwomen
won't do.
785
00:40:24,179 --> 00:40:28,779
I remember the Tim Burton
movie, with Michelle Pfeiffer.
786
00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:32,699
She was really, really sexy,
but elegant, too.
787
00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:37,219
What interested me most
about superheroines
788
00:40:37,299 --> 00:40:39,500
is that they are both
elegant and strong.
789
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:42,940
In the comics,
Catwoman, a.k.a. Selina Kyle,
790
00:40:43,020 --> 00:40:46,219
started out
as a clearly corrupt criminal.
791
00:40:46,299 --> 00:40:48,219
It was not until
about 30 years later
792
00:40:48,299 --> 00:40:50,739
that she began to display
a more ambiguous attitude
793
00:40:50,819 --> 00:40:53,580
and then was allowed to have
her own solo comics.
794
00:40:53,659 --> 00:40:56,339
Since then, she is clearly
a more positive character,
795
00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:59,100
with a role of her own
in Batman mythology.
796
00:40:59,179 --> 00:41:01,100
My understanding
of the character
797
00:41:01,179 --> 00:41:03,299
is that she's the queen
of Gotham
798
00:41:03,380 --> 00:41:07,219
because she can beat the heroes,
799
00:41:07,299 --> 00:41:08,500
because she's a villain,
800
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:12,580
and she can beat the villains
because she's a hero.
801
00:41:12,659 --> 00:41:16,739
And she's the only one that
Batman is not going to beat up,
802
00:41:16,819 --> 00:41:18,739
because Batman
is in love with her.
803
00:41:18,819 --> 00:41:21,540
He deals with crazy people,
804
00:41:21,619 --> 00:41:26,420
but the only sane person
in Gotham City is Selina Kyle.
805
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:29,380
And she fakes
to be crazy sometimes,
806
00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:32,060
but she's in charge
of everything.
807
00:41:32,139 --> 00:41:34,580
I like that about the character.
It's very deep.
808
00:41:34,659 --> 00:41:36,219
You know,
someone like Catwoman,
809
00:41:36,299 --> 00:41:38,739
who kind of weaponizes
her sex-appeal,
810
00:41:38,819 --> 00:41:43,739
she's a character that
I would absolutely draw in...
811
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:49,100
...sexual and suggestive ways.
812
00:41:49,179 --> 00:41:52,900
But not in a way
that's compromising to her,
813
00:41:52,980 --> 00:41:54,619
because she's very much
in control.
814
00:41:55,540 --> 00:42:00,179
But then, in the late 90s,
early 2000s,
815
00:42:00,259 --> 00:42:03,580
Darwyn Cooke took Catwoman,
816
00:42:05,100 --> 00:42:07,100
not changing her backstory,
817
00:42:07,179 --> 00:42:09,860
but making her less sexualized
818
00:42:09,940 --> 00:42:11,980
and more utilitarian.
819
00:42:12,060 --> 00:42:18,060
Every single part of the costume
that he designed had a purpose.
820
00:42:18,139 --> 00:42:22,380
Versus putting on high heels,
like we saw in the 90s.
821
00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:24,100
She had boots,
822
00:42:24,179 --> 00:42:26,659
she was wearing things
that a thief would need,
823
00:42:26,739 --> 00:42:28,380
she had googles
to see in the dark.
824
00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:31,460
So, you can see Catwoman change,
825
00:42:31,540 --> 00:42:34,460
and she's a reflection
of the time that she's in,
826
00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:36,900
just like other characters
that old.
827
00:42:36,980 --> 00:42:39,060
Catwoman is a sexy character,
828
00:42:39,139 --> 00:42:44,100
but she uses that,
she's in charge of it.
829
00:42:44,179 --> 00:42:45,619
That's the difference.
830
00:42:45,699 --> 00:42:47,779
She's not an object.
She's an actor.
831
00:42:47,860 --> 00:42:49,500
Yes, she's sexy, of course,
832
00:42:49,580 --> 00:42:52,940
and she uses that to tease
people, men and women.
833
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:56,659
But the line
between sexy and sexualisation
834
00:42:56,739 --> 00:42:58,659
can be a very fine one.
835
00:42:58,739 --> 00:43:01,659
Militant heroines claiming
ownership of their bodies
836
00:43:01,739 --> 00:43:05,339
sometimes gives way
to clichés.
837
00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:10,819
What annoys me
is having to represent women
838
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:13,540
through hyper-sexualized
objects.
839
00:43:14,380 --> 00:43:16,940
In everyday life
that just doesn't help us.
840
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:21,739
When I work
on younger characters,
841
00:43:23,460 --> 00:43:26,619
I try to be respectful
842
00:43:26,699 --> 00:43:30,259
because we have a serious
problem as a society, I think,
843
00:43:30,339 --> 00:43:33,060
with the hypersexualization
of women,
844
00:43:33,139 --> 00:43:35,380
and especially teenage women.
845
00:43:35,460 --> 00:43:38,699
We have top models
that are 14 years old.
846
00:43:40,299 --> 00:43:42,380
Those are kids.
847
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:45,100
They don't know about things.
848
00:43:45,179 --> 00:43:46,659
They're not allowed to vote,
849
00:43:46,739 --> 00:43:49,139
and they are selling stuff.
850
00:43:49,219 --> 00:43:50,940
I tend to think
851
00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:56,739
that things mustn't be
all of one or all of the other.
852
00:43:56,819 --> 00:43:58,460
Room must be made for stuff.
853
00:43:58,540 --> 00:44:03,100
Of course, is the
objectification of characters,
854
00:44:03,179 --> 00:44:08,619
who aren't always of age,
not a little controversial?
855
00:44:08,699 --> 00:44:12,860
We've beauty standards
that are absolutely impossible.
856
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:14,420
I remember Cindy Crawford,
857
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,619
the top model in the 90s,
saying,
858
00:44:16,699 --> 00:44:19,580
"Oh, I would love so much
to look like Cindy Crawford."
859
00:44:19,659 --> 00:44:21,100
It's impossible.
860
00:44:21,179 --> 00:44:23,900
There's a song by Ladytron.
861
00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:28,420
They sing, "You're only funny
when you're 17."
862
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,339
"When you're 21, you're no fun."
863
00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:31,500
And we are selling that.
864
00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:35,219
That's not fine as a society.
865
00:44:35,299 --> 00:44:37,779
And as a comic book artist,
866
00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:42,179
you have to know how to draw
a 16-year-old woman.
867
00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:47,500
So, the girl has to be pretty,
she has to show cleavage...
868
00:44:47,580 --> 00:44:49,299
You have to have
a whole list of things
869
00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:51,779
that will really sexualize
the character.
870
00:44:51,860 --> 00:44:55,659
It's very hard
to handle certain things,
871
00:44:55,739 --> 00:45:00,100
like the fact of not looking
like that famous Power Girl
872
00:45:00,179 --> 00:45:01,980
with her big breasts,
dressed in a body,
873
00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:04,460
looking amazing and having
a lot of people drool.
874
00:45:04,540 --> 00:45:07,980
We're in a moment
of our history
875
00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:11,619
that we have to know
what we are playing with.
876
00:45:11,699 --> 00:45:18,500
And we're playing with 50% of
the world population's feelings.
877
00:45:18,580 --> 00:45:20,259
You know, it's not fair!
878
00:45:20,339 --> 00:45:23,339
When I work on female
characters, whoever they are,
879
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:27,259
I generally always try
to find their humanity.
880
00:45:27,339 --> 00:45:31,580
It's more of an inner
representation.
881
00:45:31,659 --> 00:45:33,540
I work on micro expressions
a lot.
882
00:45:33,619 --> 00:45:36,619
I work on the expression of
character and strength a lot.
883
00:45:36,699 --> 00:45:38,699
I try to give
a great deal of majesty
884
00:45:38,779 --> 00:45:40,779
to the characters I represent.
885
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:42,259
But there is still this thing
886
00:45:42,339 --> 00:45:45,860
with your basic superheroine
having to be pretty and sexy,
887
00:45:45,940 --> 00:45:47,940
and that bothers me a little.
888
00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:50,179
Whenever a woman
in our society...
889
00:45:52,299 --> 00:45:55,860
looks far from
the beauty standards,
890
00:45:55,940 --> 00:45:58,580
the impossible beauty standards
that we have,
891
00:45:58,659 --> 00:46:03,500
whenever a woman gets there,
she's not worthy.
892
00:46:04,659 --> 00:46:05,900
And it's absurd!
893
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:08,540
I feel like there are
some female characters
894
00:46:08,619 --> 00:46:11,779
whose sex-appeal is very much
part of their personality.
895
00:46:13,659 --> 00:46:16,219
And, for those characters,
896
00:46:16,299 --> 00:46:20,219
I'm interested in finding
897
00:46:20,299 --> 00:46:25,420
the different flavors of female
sexuality and sensuality
898
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:29,339
that are appropriate
to that specific character.
899
00:46:30,179 --> 00:46:31,819
But there are
other female characters
900
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:33,619
where I find it
really inappropriate.
901
00:46:33,699 --> 00:46:37,420
There certainly was
a whole period
902
00:46:37,500 --> 00:46:41,900
when female characters,
in particular,
903
00:46:41,980 --> 00:46:44,219
were shown
in very improbable poses.
904
00:46:44,299 --> 00:46:46,259
Especially on covers
905
00:46:46,339 --> 00:46:48,980
with that traditional pose
called the "broke back".
906
00:46:49,060 --> 00:46:51,219
There are characters
that I couldn't...
907
00:46:51,299 --> 00:46:53,860
that I wouldn't like to draw,
because...
908
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:56,540
Well.
909
00:46:57,380 --> 00:47:01,619
Some characters
don't inspire me.
910
00:47:01,699 --> 00:47:04,619
They just wear too few clothes.
911
00:47:04,699 --> 00:47:10,100
At first, I was very inspired
by male artists to draw women,
912
00:47:10,179 --> 00:47:11,580
the interpretation of women.
913
00:47:11,659 --> 00:47:13,299
My vision was very masculine.
914
00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:15,619
A character like Wonder Woman,
915
00:47:15,699 --> 00:47:22,179
who is beautiful, and is sexy,
and is empowered,
916
00:47:22,259 --> 00:47:23,699
she's not someone
917
00:47:23,779 --> 00:47:26,500
who I would necessarily
be doing a butt shot of,
918
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:31,139
because she represents a
different kind of feminine power
919
00:47:31,219 --> 00:47:36,860
and a different kind
920
00:47:31,219 --> 00:47:33,779
of feminine sexuality
921
00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:36,860
of sex-appeal.
922
00:47:36,940 --> 00:47:38,580
It was very sexy,
very accentuated
923
00:47:38,659 --> 00:47:40,299
in terms of appearance and pose.
924
00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:42,940
It wasn't that natural.
925
00:47:43,020 --> 00:47:45,460
I wanted keep that sexy side
926
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:48,819
because that's what I like most
about male characters,
927
00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:50,860
but in a more natural,
less forced way.
928
00:47:50,940 --> 00:47:53,819
There are things
that I couldn't draw
929
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:59,219
because I find them overkill.
930
00:47:59,299 --> 00:48:05,339
Like those poses showing
the character's bottom.
931
00:48:05,420 --> 00:48:08,619
It looks misshapen.
932
00:48:08,699 --> 00:48:10,819
The body is not natural.
933
00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:14,100
Superheroines have therefore
934
00:48:14,179 --> 00:48:15,980
sometimes been looked upon
as bimbos.
935
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:17,380
But things started to change
936
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:19,179
as more female writers
and readers
937
00:48:19,259 --> 00:48:20,659
made their voices heard.
938
00:48:20,739 --> 00:48:22,619
The injustice
began to be redressed
939
00:48:22,699 --> 00:48:26,779
through projects that reinvent
and restore a forgotten past.
940
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:28,739
Women have been fighting
for a long time,
941
00:48:28,819 --> 00:48:30,380
and it is time
to point that out.
942
00:48:30,460 --> 00:48:32,860
In this regard,
the modern comic DC Bombshells
943
00:48:32,940 --> 00:48:33,940
is rewriting history
944
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:36,619
by giving the principal heroines
in DC Comics
945
00:48:36,699 --> 00:48:39,779
the lead role in World War II.
946
00:48:39,860 --> 00:48:45,219
I've worked on the DC Bombshells
heroines for DC Comics.
947
00:48:45,299 --> 00:48:48,179
It's a very special project
948
00:48:48,259 --> 00:48:50,259
because it's not every day
that you're asked
949
00:48:50,339 --> 00:48:52,339
to improvise heroines
from the 40s,
950
00:48:52,420 --> 00:48:53,779
to draw something
951
00:48:53,860 --> 00:48:57,460
that's supposed to work
in the context of the 40s.
952
00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:01,100
When I started working
for DC Comics,
953
00:49:01,179 --> 00:49:04,380
the Bombshells project was
still in its development stage.
954
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:07,020
I saw it come alive
and grow before my very eyes.
955
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:09,980
So, all the superheroes
in the DC world
956
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:14,060
have been reinvented,
957
00:49:14,139 --> 00:49:18,900
with clothes, contextualizations
958
00:49:18,980 --> 00:49:21,020
and references
to a historical period
959
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:24,659
that more or less goes
from the 1920s to the 1950s.
960
00:49:24,739 --> 00:49:28,739
Therefore, everything we find
in the Bombshells world
961
00:49:28,819 --> 00:49:31,219
is determined
by a specific historical period.
962
00:49:31,299 --> 00:49:32,779
And the nice thing is that
963
00:49:32,860 --> 00:49:38,659
each character is reinvented in
relation to their specific role.
964
00:49:38,739 --> 00:49:41,940
Working on Bombshells
was an amazing experience
965
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:46,779
because, like I said,
966
00:49:46,860 --> 00:49:51,259
heroines from the 1940s
have largely been forgotten,
967
00:49:51,339 --> 00:49:52,500
except for Wonder Woman
968
00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:55,060
who lasted well beyond
that era.
969
00:49:55,139 --> 00:49:59,179
And then,
we added modern heroines
970
00:49:59,259 --> 00:50:03,139
who were reinvented
to adapt to the 1940s.
971
00:50:03,219 --> 00:50:08,299
I had the privilege
of creating the designs
972
00:50:08,380 --> 00:50:14,179
for a number of these characters
from scratch with Ant Lucia,
973
00:50:14,259 --> 00:50:15,860
a very good colleague,
974
00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:17,739
who is involved
in the development
975
00:50:17,819 --> 00:50:19,900
of the entire
DC Bombshells world.
976
00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:22,739
I was also offered
to create statues
977
00:50:22,819 --> 00:50:25,380
and DC Bombshells-version busts
978
00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:29,380
of Supergirl, Mera,
and Wonder Woman,
979
00:50:29,460 --> 00:50:33,060
restyled according
to a particular concept
980
00:50:33,139 --> 00:50:37,380
evoking the various sectors
of the American army.
981
00:50:37,460 --> 00:50:43,219
One of the characteristics found
in the Bombshells characters
982
00:50:43,299 --> 00:50:46,500
is a reference, by analogy, to
the poster of Rosie the Riveter.
983
00:50:46,580 --> 00:50:51,460
You can see it in the statues
of Supergirl and Wonder Woman,
984
00:50:51,540 --> 00:50:55,139
represented with
that classic gesture
985
00:50:55,219 --> 00:51:00,540
of raised arm and closed fist,
as a sign of courage,
986
00:51:00,619 --> 00:51:04,420
to convey the idea
that we can do anything.
987
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,699
This concept is inseparable
from the Bombshells.
988
00:51:06,779 --> 00:51:10,819
Their job is
to encourage enthusiasm,
989
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:14,299
to send a positive message
to people,
990
00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:17,699
the message that
we can all roll up our sleeves
991
00:51:17,779 --> 00:51:21,259
and move on
at any point in our life
992
00:51:21,339 --> 00:51:23,060
and face any difficulty.
993
00:51:23,139 --> 00:51:26,940
I think that the combination
of Supergirl and Wonder Woman
994
00:51:27,020 --> 00:51:29,460
is perfect for expressing
that concept
995
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:34,259
and that it fully represents
the spirit of the Bombshells.
996
00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:38,500
Marvel's Black Widow
997
00:51:38,580 --> 00:51:40,739
was born out of another
conflict, the Cold War.
998
00:51:42,139 --> 00:51:44,699
She starts out
as a dangerous Soviet spy
999
00:51:44,779 --> 00:51:47,779
before redeeming herself and
going over to the heroes' side.
1000
00:51:48,659 --> 00:51:51,860
But her popularity with the
general public remained limited
1001
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:53,659
until she began to appear
in cinemas
1002
00:51:53,739 --> 00:51:56,179
alongside Iron Man
and the Avengers.
1003
00:51:56,259 --> 00:51:58,299
At first, Black Widow
is incredible,
1004
00:51:58,380 --> 00:51:59,580
and then, as time goes by,
1005
00:51:59,659 --> 00:52:02,060
a few small things
shift her back onto the rails
1006
00:52:02,139 --> 00:52:05,139
of a more admissible
femininity.
1007
00:52:05,219 --> 00:52:07,460
She starts taking care
of Hawkeye's baby,
1008
00:52:07,540 --> 00:52:10,940
she takes an interest
in how people are doing.
1009
00:52:11,020 --> 00:52:13,339
She's involved with care,
with how people are doing,
1010
00:52:13,420 --> 00:52:16,699
while Iron Man, Thor,
and Captain America
1011
00:52:16,779 --> 00:52:18,699
sort out
the world's real problems.
1012
00:52:18,779 --> 00:52:19,980
It also presents a problem
1013
00:52:20,060 --> 00:52:22,380
because the characters'
costumes in the movies
1014
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:25,900
are much more elaborate
than the original costumes.
1015
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:28,299
For example,
if you look at Black Widow,
1016
00:52:28,380 --> 00:52:31,460
her costume basically
is just a black leather jumpsuit
1017
00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:34,339
with bracelets, the belt,
and that's it.
1018
00:52:34,420 --> 00:52:37,299
The jumpsuit she wears
in the movie
1019
00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:42,500
has lots of little seams
everywhere, accessories...
1020
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:43,659
In Age of Ultron,
1021
00:52:43,739 --> 00:52:46,299
she suddenly becomes the one
who has to appease the Hulk,
1022
00:52:46,380 --> 00:52:47,980
who has to pat his hand.
1023
00:52:48,060 --> 00:52:52,139
In a scene where she is opposed
to the Hulk, to Bruce Banner,
1024
00:52:52,219 --> 00:52:55,420
she even describes herself
as a monster
1025
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:57,739
because she can't
have children.
1026
00:52:57,819 --> 00:53:00,179
It's completely unbelievable.
1027
00:53:00,259 --> 00:53:02,940
The issue of refusing or being
unable to become a mother
1028
00:53:03,020 --> 00:53:05,219
comes up at that point
in Black Widow's story
1029
00:53:05,299 --> 00:53:09,580
and makes her a monster,
which is just staggering.
1030
00:53:11,139 --> 00:53:12,259
In France,
1031
00:53:12,339 --> 00:53:15,500
film director Simon Astier
created Hero Corp,
1032
00:53:15,580 --> 00:53:17,980
a television series
that turned out to be so popular
1033
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:20,179
as to be turned
into a comic book.
1034
00:53:20,259 --> 00:53:22,739
The comedy series
describes the adventures
1035
00:53:22,819 --> 00:53:24,860
of very French supermen.
1036
00:53:24,940 --> 00:53:26,819
There aren't many superheroines
in HeroCorp.
1037
00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:30,139
In my writing today,
I do things differently.
1038
00:53:30,219 --> 00:53:33,179
I think it's to counter
that pattern.
1039
00:53:33,259 --> 00:53:36,739
What I did
with my last projects,
1040
00:53:36,819 --> 00:53:41,380
specifically to counter
that law
1041
00:53:41,460 --> 00:53:43,739
or way of doing things,
1042
00:53:43,819 --> 00:53:47,739
was write characters that
I find cool, stylish, and funny,
1043
00:53:47,819 --> 00:53:49,380
and give them names at the end.
1044
00:53:49,460 --> 00:53:53,659
I also tried to create
other characters,
1045
00:53:53,739 --> 00:53:55,179
female characters,
1046
00:53:55,259 --> 00:53:58,219
that are double-sided
1047
00:53:58,299 --> 00:54:04,219
with a cool side
and a darker side.
1048
00:54:04,299 --> 00:54:06,940
The first movies
featuring superheroines,
1049
00:54:07,020 --> 00:54:08,020
far from successful,
1050
00:54:08,100 --> 00:54:11,540
were booed and ignored by the
general public and by critics.
1051
00:54:11,619 --> 00:54:13,420
There was a saying in Hollywood
1052
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:17,659
to the effect that superwomen
movies were guaranteed to bomb.
1053
00:54:17,739 --> 00:54:20,100
Real filmmaking success
began to happen
1054
00:54:20,179 --> 00:54:23,580
when Wonder Woman finally
appeared on the big screen,
1055
00:54:23,659 --> 00:54:25,980
and shortly after
in films of her own.
1056
00:54:26,060 --> 00:54:29,580
I decided to make
this Wonder Woman costume
1057
00:54:29,659 --> 00:54:32,779
for a competition at Japan Expo.
1058
00:54:32,860 --> 00:54:34,420
That choice was based
on an idea I'd had
1059
00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:36,299
for a performance
with the character.
1060
00:54:36,380 --> 00:54:39,100
I wanted to create something
that could really move on stage,
1061
00:54:39,179 --> 00:54:41,299
and we were in full
Wonder Woman craze.
1062
00:54:41,380 --> 00:54:42,819
The movie had just
been released.
1063
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:46,380
And superheroines were something
I was interested in.
1064
00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:48,020
She remains an icon.
1065
00:54:48,100 --> 00:54:52,100
When you see her, you can hardly
mistake her for someone else.
1066
00:54:52,179 --> 00:54:56,219
In the movie by Patty Jenkins,
1067
00:54:56,299 --> 00:54:58,420
Wonder Woman is also
a feminist.
1068
00:54:58,500 --> 00:54:59,900
I think that can be argued,
1069
00:54:59,980 --> 00:55:06,219
even if it's a much more
tender, soft kind of feminism
1070
00:55:06,299 --> 00:55:11,219
compared to Lynda Carter
and the 70s version
1071
00:55:11,299 --> 00:55:14,580
where it was really displayed,
explicit and really stated.
1072
00:55:14,659 --> 00:55:17,339
Wonder Woman is justice.
1073
00:55:17,420 --> 00:55:19,060
I mean, she fights for truth,
1074
00:55:19,139 --> 00:55:23,380
she has her Lasso of Truth
to which no one can lie.
1075
00:55:23,460 --> 00:55:25,060
In the movie by Patty Jenkins,
1076
00:55:25,139 --> 00:55:26,540
Wonder Woman still has the idea
1077
00:55:26,619 --> 00:55:28,219
of making the world
a better place,
1078
00:55:28,299 --> 00:55:30,420
with as little violence
as possible it seems,
1079
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:31,659
even if she does fight.
1080
00:55:31,739 --> 00:55:35,699
It's a lot more low-key
than in the series.
1081
00:55:35,779 --> 00:55:39,540
Despite her very powerful,
"nothing can touch me" side,
1082
00:55:39,619 --> 00:55:41,460
she does have
an inner sensitivity
1083
00:55:41,540 --> 00:55:44,460
and something that makes her
a bit human.
1084
00:55:44,540 --> 00:55:45,779
Even if...
1085
00:55:45,860 --> 00:55:48,139
Well, if I were to take a bullet
in the shoulder,
1086
00:55:48,219 --> 00:55:49,779
I'd burst into tears!
1087
00:55:49,860 --> 00:55:52,259
What's interesting
about the film by Patty Jenkins
1088
00:55:52,339 --> 00:55:53,940
is the way
she films Wonder Woman.
1089
00:55:54,020 --> 00:55:58,339
Unlike Zack Snyder, she doesn't
focus on her buttocks,
1090
00:55:58,420 --> 00:56:01,580
with tons of shots of Wonder
Woman viewed from behind
1091
00:56:01,659 --> 00:56:03,259
when she's fighting,
for example.
1092
00:56:03,339 --> 00:56:05,339
Patty Jenkins takes
a greater interest
1093
00:56:05,420 --> 00:56:09,819
in everything that has to do
with actual action.
1094
00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:12,460
So, she focuses on Wonder
Woman's biceps, her calves...
1095
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:16,100
She also films her views
from the front and in motion.
1096
00:56:16,179 --> 00:56:18,259
Like that incredible scene
1097
00:56:18,339 --> 00:56:21,100
where Wonder Woman
runs through the trenches,
1098
00:56:21,179 --> 00:56:25,779
with wide, front shots of her
in full motion.
1099
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:28,860
The Boys,
a comic book series
1100
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:30,619
by Garth Ennis
and Darick Robertson,
1101
00:56:30,699 --> 00:56:33,980
is a blithe pastiche
of the Justice League.
1102
00:56:34,060 --> 00:56:36,299
But under false airs
of trashy parody,
1103
00:56:36,380 --> 00:56:40,900
room is given to a feminist
message through two superwomen,
1104
00:56:40,980 --> 00:56:45,339
cynical Queen Maeve
and innocent Starlight.
1105
00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:49,020
The concept has become a hit
TV series on Amazon Prime.
1106
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:51,940
Even The Boys talk
about girls!
1107
00:56:52,020 --> 00:56:53,020
As far as the women
1108
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:55,659
and how they're treated
in the original Boys comic,
1109
00:56:55,739 --> 00:56:58,219
the idea back then
that Garth had
1110
00:56:58,299 --> 00:57:02,580
was inspired by true stories
from the 1930s
1111
00:57:02,659 --> 00:57:04,420
about Hollywood casting couches
1112
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,540
and the way women were treated
back in the day.
1113
00:57:07,619 --> 00:57:09,819
Queen Maeve is not Wonder Woman.
1114
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:13,060
She just does things like Wonder
Woman would do with her powers.
1115
00:57:13,139 --> 00:57:14,619
But she's not Wonder Woman
1116
00:57:14,699 --> 00:57:17,020
because Wonder Woman has
a good heart, a good soul,
1117
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:18,259
and cares about people,
1118
00:57:18,339 --> 00:57:21,100
and Queen Maeve
is shattered inside.
1119
00:57:21,179 --> 00:57:23,739
The conversation that,
in the comic,
1120
00:57:23,819 --> 00:57:25,940
Starlight and Queen Maeve have
1121
00:57:26,020 --> 00:57:29,299
when she first meets her after
she's throwing up in the toilet
1122
00:57:29,380 --> 00:57:31,940
and runs into Queen Maeve
in the bathroom,
1123
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:34,699
that was based on
a real conversation
1124
00:57:34,779 --> 00:57:37,619
between Marilyn Monroe and
Bette Davis that Garth had read,
1125
00:57:37,699 --> 00:57:40,179
where Marilyn Monroe
said to Bette Davis,
1126
00:57:40,259 --> 00:57:43,779
"Oh, I'm so happy to meet you,
I'm your biggest fan!"
1127
00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:46,619
And Bette Davis told her
to fuck off.
1128
00:57:46,699 --> 00:57:50,299
In the television show,
they're doing a great job
1129
00:57:50,380 --> 00:57:54,259
of updating that concept
to a more socially aware world,
1130
00:57:54,339 --> 00:57:58,339
where Starlight is
fighting back a little bit more,
1131
00:57:58,420 --> 00:58:01,219
and she's not as victimized.
1132
00:58:01,299 --> 00:58:03,860
And Queen Maeve is a little bit
more sensitive to the fact
1133
00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:07,179
that, you know, she's not going
to make it easy on her
1134
00:58:07,259 --> 00:58:12,060
but at the same time, Queen
Maeve is more sympathetic
1135
00:58:12,139 --> 00:58:14,380
to what Starlight
is going through.
1136
00:58:28,619 --> 00:58:30,980
While Wonder Woman
and her variations
1137
00:58:31,060 --> 00:58:32,339
began to appear on-screen,
1138
00:58:32,420 --> 00:58:36,339
Marvel profoundly reinvented
another heroine, Carol Danvers.
1139
00:58:36,420 --> 00:58:38,460
Divested of her identity
as Ms. Marvel,
1140
00:58:38,540 --> 00:58:41,420
she was promoted
to Captain Marvel
1141
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:43,179
with a less tight-fitting
costume
1142
00:58:43,259 --> 00:58:45,940
and a soaring popularity.
1143
00:58:46,020 --> 00:58:48,779
When I started working
with Captain Marvel,
1144
00:58:48,860 --> 00:58:52,219
I had conversations
with Kelly Sue DeConnick.
1145
00:58:52,299 --> 00:58:55,779
She worked her ass off to make
her from a very small character
1146
00:58:55,860 --> 00:58:57,139
to something huge.
1147
00:58:57,219 --> 00:58:59,100
For a couple of years,
maybe three,
1148
00:58:59,179 --> 00:59:01,380
she went to all the conventions
in the tour.
1149
00:59:01,460 --> 00:59:06,940
She wanted a character
that's power in the best ways.
1150
00:59:07,020 --> 00:59:09,900
I think that sometimes,
people make comparisons
1151
00:59:09,980 --> 00:59:12,980
between Captain Marvel
and Wonder Woman.
1152
00:59:13,060 --> 00:59:14,139
But that's wrong.
1153
00:59:14,219 --> 00:59:16,060
Captain Marvel is Superman.
1154
00:59:16,139 --> 00:59:21,100
In the comparison,
she's the strongest one,
1155
00:59:21,179 --> 00:59:24,980
the fairest one,
the best human being possible,
1156
00:59:25,060 --> 00:59:28,139
and she knows
that if she's that powerful,
1157
00:59:28,219 --> 00:59:30,699
she must be good.
1158
00:59:30,779 --> 00:59:33,900
It's like, "With great powers
comes great responsibility."
1159
00:59:33,980 --> 00:59:37,779
And today, Captain Marvel
sends out a stronger message
1160
00:59:37,860 --> 00:59:40,619
that "I'm a woman and I take
care of myself in this world,
1161
00:59:40,699 --> 00:59:41,900
today, as I am."
1162
00:59:41,980 --> 00:59:43,619
"I'm a woman
and I take care of myself."
1163
00:59:43,699 --> 00:59:48,219
She's never threatening unless
she must threaten somebody.
1164
00:59:48,299 --> 00:59:50,460
She knows people can fail,
1165
00:59:50,540 --> 00:59:53,100
because she has failed
so many times.
1166
00:59:53,179 --> 00:59:56,819
I think she's a good example
for people,
1167
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:58,540
not only for women of course.
1168
00:59:58,619 --> 01:00:02,100
A hero is not the one who flies.
1169
01:00:02,179 --> 01:00:06,060
A hero is the one who, when
he falls down, he gets up again.
1170
01:00:06,139 --> 01:00:10,020
You're never beat until the
moment you don't get up again.
1171
01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:11,980
And that's the thing
about Captain Marvel.
1172
01:00:12,060 --> 01:00:13,619
She's been an alcoholic.
1173
01:00:13,699 --> 01:00:16,540
She's been through a lot
of crazy shit.
1174
01:00:16,619 --> 01:00:18,380
In the movies, Captain Marvel
1175
01:00:18,460 --> 01:00:22,540
sort of embodies the message
driven home by Wonder Woman
1176
01:00:22,619 --> 01:00:26,420
that yes, female superheroes
can carry a film
1177
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:27,980
and be box office hits.
1178
01:00:28,060 --> 01:00:30,339
Did you think
that being a cosplayer
1179
01:00:30,420 --> 01:00:32,860
was just about the costume?
Think again.
1180
01:00:32,940 --> 01:00:34,940
While it's true
that reproducing costumes
1181
01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:38,299
is technically difficult,
there's also a moral challenge.
1182
01:00:38,380 --> 01:00:40,259
Wearing these
heroines' clothes
1183
01:00:40,339 --> 01:00:42,259
also means
representing their values.
1184
01:00:42,339 --> 01:00:45,739
From the moment you become
Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel,
1185
01:00:45,819 --> 01:00:47,699
that also involves another form
of heroism.
1186
01:00:49,020 --> 01:00:52,420
I found out about Captain Marvel
through her movie.
1187
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:55,100
And then I said to myself,
1188
01:00:55,179 --> 01:01:01,219
"I have to start reading the
comics in which she appears."
1189
01:01:01,299 --> 01:01:06,900
After fighting my body
for a long time,
1190
01:01:06,980 --> 01:01:09,699
because, if I may say so,
I used to be obese,
1191
01:01:09,779 --> 01:01:10,860
I lost weight and I said,
1192
01:01:10,940 --> 01:01:14,500
"I too, one day, will not be
vulgar, for one thing,
1193
01:01:14,580 --> 01:01:16,980
and for another,
I will wear a morph suit
1194
01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:20,179
and interpret
a strong heroine."
1195
01:01:20,259 --> 01:01:21,420
She's just great.
1196
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:24,100
She's really amazing
1197
01:01:24,179 --> 01:01:29,659
because she's a character
that reveals nothing.
1198
01:01:29,739 --> 01:01:31,980
We get the feeling
she keeps everything to herself,
1199
01:01:32,060 --> 01:01:33,100
she's very sensitive.
1200
01:01:33,179 --> 01:01:36,980
And I thought,
"Yes, she's you, really,"
1201
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:40,779
because I really compared myself
1202
01:01:40,860 --> 01:01:45,500
to the actress's attitude
in the movie,
1203
01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:47,819
and in fact, we have a lot
of things in common,
1204
01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:49,339
even in terms of my personality.
1205
01:01:49,420 --> 01:01:51,460
I had to make
my very own Captain Marvel.
1206
01:01:51,540 --> 01:01:55,980
So, my costume
is 100% designed...
1207
01:01:57,299 --> 01:01:58,219
in here.
1208
01:01:59,380 --> 01:02:00,580
It's my very own creation.
1209
01:02:00,659 --> 01:02:02,219
It's my Captain Marvel.
1210
01:02:02,299 --> 01:02:05,779
The position she's in
at the end of the movie
1211
01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:11,980
when she sends her former boss
packing, when she beats him up
1212
01:02:12,060 --> 01:02:13,860
and tells him,
"I have nothing to prove,"
1213
01:02:13,940 --> 01:02:15,139
that's kind of how I feel.
1214
01:02:15,219 --> 01:02:16,779
Today, I have nothing to prove.
1215
01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:19,179
I've taken a 180 degree turn.
1216
01:02:19,259 --> 01:02:22,020
It's the same with work.
1217
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:23,940
I made certain decisions
a year ago,
1218
01:02:24,020 --> 01:02:27,259
and it really coincided
with the moment
1219
01:02:27,339 --> 01:02:30,819
when I decided to play Captain
Marvel's character in cosplay.
1220
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:31,900
Captain Marvel,
1221
01:02:31,980 --> 01:02:34,299
from an economic and strategic
point of view,
1222
01:02:34,380 --> 01:02:38,259
is very important because
she gives the green light,
1223
01:02:38,339 --> 01:02:40,739
somehow, to other projects
1224
01:02:40,819 --> 01:02:44,739
and to the possibility of having
superheroines in movies.
1225
01:02:44,819 --> 01:02:47,619
And she's a message
sent out to producers too,
1226
01:02:47,699 --> 01:02:49,420
telling them to go ahead.
1227
01:02:50,980 --> 01:02:52,659
Over the past 15 years,
1228
01:02:52,739 --> 01:02:54,659
female cosplayers
have become more present
1229
01:02:54,739 --> 01:02:56,020
in geek festivals than men.
1230
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:58,179
They have profoundly changed
an atmosphere
1231
01:02:58,259 --> 01:03:00,739
that until recently
was mostly masculine.
1232
01:03:00,819 --> 01:03:03,819
Female readers
used to feel isolated
1233
01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:05,420
in a hobby for boys.
1234
01:03:05,500 --> 01:03:06,980
But when young women cosplayers
1235
01:03:07,060 --> 01:03:09,420
began to appear
as Oracle, Starfire, or Raven,
1236
01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:11,980
their presence
changed the rules.
1237
01:03:12,060 --> 01:03:13,980
Thanks to cosplay,
women have gained
1238
01:03:14,060 --> 01:03:16,619
increasing visibility
in comic book culture.
1239
01:03:16,699 --> 01:03:18,860
When we cosplay,
there's the character aspect
1240
01:03:18,940 --> 01:03:20,940
but there also the challenge
of the costume.
1241
01:03:21,020 --> 01:03:22,980
I hadn't made armors
in a very long time,
1242
01:03:23,060 --> 01:03:25,219
I wanted to test new materials,
1243
01:03:25,299 --> 01:03:28,139
so my costume became
a matter of course.
1244
01:03:28,219 --> 01:03:29,779
What's cool in cosplay
1245
01:03:29,860 --> 01:03:32,060
is that it involves more
than just the conventions.
1246
01:03:32,139 --> 01:03:34,699
Yes, we have the photoshoots
and the interviews,
1247
01:03:34,779 --> 01:03:36,739
but then there are
the hospitals.
1248
01:03:36,819 --> 01:03:42,060
I would like to create a group
of people or something,
1249
01:03:42,139 --> 01:03:44,139
to go and visit
those poor children
1250
01:03:44,219 --> 01:03:48,100
or even adult enthusiasts
or people who are suffering.
1251
01:03:48,179 --> 01:03:50,219
Success changes everything.
1252
01:03:50,299 --> 01:03:51,299
For a long time,
1253
01:03:51,380 --> 01:03:53,580
the point was to give heroines
a place in comics.
1254
01:03:53,659 --> 01:03:55,339
But now that this place
is acquired,
1255
01:03:55,420 --> 01:03:57,779
variety can be brought
to these women's profiles.
1256
01:03:57,860 --> 01:03:59,540
Rather than fitting
a unique model,
1257
01:03:59,619 --> 01:04:01,619
superwomen are unlimited
in their types.
1258
01:04:01,699 --> 01:04:03,339
This provides room
for diversity,
1259
01:04:03,420 --> 01:04:06,179
including for characters
that have been around for ages.
1260
01:04:06,259 --> 01:04:12,259
The first superheroine I
followed as a kid was She-Ra.
1261
01:04:12,339 --> 01:04:15,699
I think everyone remembers
the Masters of the Universe.
1262
01:04:15,779 --> 01:04:18,580
For me, the first superheroine
was She-Ra.
1263
01:04:18,659 --> 01:04:21,060
I became so enthusiastic
about this genre,
1264
01:04:21,139 --> 01:04:23,219
this fantasy genre,
1265
01:04:23,299 --> 01:04:26,900
in which the protagonist
isn't a damsel in distress
1266
01:04:26,980 --> 01:04:32,060
but the person
in charge of her own actions
1267
01:04:32,139 --> 01:04:35,060
and with the power
to save people.
1268
01:04:35,139 --> 01:04:39,100
I think it's something that has
brought me to perceive women
1269
01:04:39,179 --> 01:04:41,699
as unlimited
in what they can do.
1270
01:04:41,779 --> 01:04:43,819
It's true that I was impressed
by She-Ra
1271
01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:46,540
because it was
a rather revolutionary cartoon
1272
01:04:46,619 --> 01:04:48,259
in the sense that...
1273
01:04:48,339 --> 01:04:49,540
Careful, spoiler!
1274
01:04:49,619 --> 01:04:53,380
...the female protagonist
ends up with a woman.
1275
01:04:53,460 --> 01:04:57,699
Today, I've come out, and that's
why I did She-Ra because...
1276
01:04:57,779 --> 01:05:00,779
Like I said, my cosplay therapy
always matches something,
1277
01:05:00,860 --> 01:05:04,179
and She-Ra matched
my coming out.
1278
01:05:04,940 --> 01:05:06,779
Supergirl also evolved.
1279
01:05:06,860 --> 01:05:09,020
No longer just Superman's
unassuming cousin,
1280
01:05:09,100 --> 01:05:11,219
living in his shadow,
she began to be described
1281
01:05:11,299 --> 01:05:13,619
as having come to Earth
to protect her cousin.
1282
01:05:13,699 --> 01:05:15,860
Today, she even has
her own TV series,
1283
01:05:15,940 --> 01:05:19,339
in which Superman starts out
as a secondary character.
1284
01:05:19,420 --> 01:05:21,900
Supergirl is acquiring
new relevance
1285
01:05:21,980 --> 01:05:24,060
and becoming a positive symbol
for young girls.
1286
01:05:25,339 --> 01:05:27,460
Supergirl...
1287
01:05:28,259 --> 01:05:34,659
Well, I'm not a huge fan
of Superman and that world,
1288
01:05:34,739 --> 01:05:37,659
but I liked Supergirl
1289
01:05:37,739 --> 01:05:41,380
because she's was
a bit different, a bit younger.
1290
01:05:41,460 --> 01:05:44,420
For me,
Supergirl symbolizes hope.
1291
01:05:45,380 --> 01:05:47,860
It's the symbol
she wears on her chest.
1292
01:05:47,940 --> 01:05:51,100
She's also a young character,
1293
01:05:51,179 --> 01:05:53,900
quite juvenile
in the ways she responds
1294
01:05:53,980 --> 01:05:55,940
to the world in which she lives.
1295
01:05:56,020 --> 01:05:59,940
She doesn't react like Superman,
for instance.
1296
01:06:00,020 --> 01:06:05,699
She's a bit rough around
the edges, a bit hotheaded.
1297
01:06:05,779 --> 01:06:11,699
Supergirl is the first
important superheroine
1298
01:06:11,779 --> 01:06:12,900
in my life
1299
01:06:12,980 --> 01:06:16,900
because the first major title
I worked on
1300
01:06:16,980 --> 01:06:20,339
for DC Comics was Supergirl.
1301
01:06:20,420 --> 01:06:23,060
She opened the door to the vista
of the whole DC world for me.
1302
01:06:23,139 --> 01:06:24,699
And I liked her from the start,
1303
01:06:24,779 --> 01:06:28,460
maybe because
when I began to draw her,
1304
01:06:28,540 --> 01:06:34,100
we were pretty much the same
age, Supergirl and I.
1305
01:06:34,179 --> 01:06:36,779
To me, she was very clear
as a character.
1306
01:06:36,860 --> 01:06:37,860
I understood her well,
1307
01:06:37,940 --> 01:06:39,219
because she was my age
1308
01:06:39,299 --> 01:06:41,540
and I assumed she could do
the same things I did,
1309
01:06:41,619 --> 01:06:45,219
have the same friends
I hung out with.
1310
01:06:45,299 --> 01:06:52,139
For me, representing her
almost came from the gut
1311
01:06:52,219 --> 01:06:56,779
because I didn't have to study
much for her.
1312
01:06:56,860 --> 01:06:59,299
She's also
a very sunny character,
1313
01:06:59,380 --> 01:07:02,299
and I like that positive side
she embodies.
1314
01:07:04,580 --> 01:07:07,779
I think that, in the series,
1315
01:07:07,860 --> 01:07:10,219
that aspect of her
is very well represented.
1316
01:07:10,299 --> 01:07:14,060
What's nice is that the audience
is very different,
1317
01:07:14,139 --> 01:07:16,860
not necessarily people
who are comics fans,
1318
01:07:16,940 --> 01:07:21,020
but pretty much anyone can
recognize this character
1319
01:07:21,100 --> 01:07:24,179
from her symbol.
1320
01:07:24,259 --> 01:07:26,940
So, it's fun to play her
1321
01:07:27,020 --> 01:07:31,219
because you can really reach
and bond with everyone,
1322
01:07:31,299 --> 01:07:32,500
with children too.
1323
01:07:32,580 --> 01:07:35,219
You can see a lot more
in this character
1324
01:07:35,299 --> 01:07:37,420
than just
a super-strong heroine
1325
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:40,100
that is an absolute symbol
or something like that.
1326
01:07:40,179 --> 01:07:42,860
While Batwoman
was an uninspiring variation
1327
01:07:42,940 --> 01:07:44,420
of Batman in the 50s,
1328
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:47,659
she was entirely reinvented
in the early 2000s
1329
01:07:47,739 --> 01:07:51,299
as a much more competent
and modern character.
1330
01:07:51,380 --> 01:07:52,460
An LGBT heroine
1331
01:07:52,540 --> 01:07:54,619
claiming ownership
of her own place in Gotham.
1332
01:07:55,779 --> 01:07:57,779
Batwoman is
exactly the same thing.
1333
01:07:57,860 --> 01:07:58,980
She's a symbol.
1334
01:07:59,060 --> 01:08:03,900
But she's a symbol for
the entire LGBT community.
1335
01:08:05,819 --> 01:08:07,020
And, at the same time,
1336
01:08:07,100 --> 01:08:09,739
she's gone through almost
the same evolution as Supergirl.
1337
01:08:09,819 --> 01:08:11,259
In the 50s,
1338
01:08:11,339 --> 01:08:16,539
Batwoman was not represented
in the way she is now.
1339
01:08:17,459 --> 01:08:21,419
Rather like Supergirl,
1340
01:08:21,499 --> 01:08:26,900
she wasn't charismatic
or a feminist.
1341
01:08:26,980 --> 01:08:31,980
She used all sorts
of rather useless accessories,
1342
01:08:32,060 --> 01:08:38,539
like her famous eyeshadow.
1343
01:08:38,620 --> 01:08:41,339
She was also
just Batman's sidekick, really,
1344
01:08:41,419 --> 01:08:44,419
and, for the same reason,
here to develop the Bat Family.
1345
01:08:44,499 --> 01:08:46,980
But in the early 2000s...
1346
01:08:47,060 --> 01:08:50,060
It was in 2006 that Greg Rucka,
the screenwriter,
1347
01:08:50,139 --> 01:08:51,740
created that character.
1348
01:08:51,820 --> 01:08:55,539
...we are poles apart
from the 50s Batwoman.
1349
01:08:55,620 --> 01:08:58,459
She becomes a very strong,
very charismatic character,
1350
01:08:58,539 --> 01:09:01,820
she's a soldier,
part of the army,
1351
01:09:01,900 --> 01:09:05,179
and she goes through a lot
of terrible things in her life.
1352
01:09:05,259 --> 01:09:09,419
That's the character
that appealed to me,
1353
01:09:09,499 --> 01:09:13,020
even with regard
to my own experience,
1354
01:09:13,100 --> 01:09:15,179
and that helped me
move forward,
1355
01:09:15,259 --> 01:09:18,259
especially with regard
to her own sexuality
1356
01:09:18,339 --> 01:09:20,579
and her own personal journey.
1357
01:09:20,660 --> 01:09:24,060
Today, we have Batwoman, who's
in a relationship with a woman.
1358
01:09:24,860 --> 01:09:25,980
It's a cause of mine,
1359
01:09:26,060 --> 01:09:28,700
not only women in movies
but also homosexuality,
1360
01:09:28,780 --> 01:09:30,459
and I think it is important
to say it.
1361
01:09:30,539 --> 01:09:32,780
And today, things are
being taken even further.
1362
01:09:32,860 --> 01:09:37,299
To me, LGBT representation
in comics is essential
1363
01:09:37,379 --> 01:09:42,780
because it brings diversity
to comics,
1364
01:09:42,860 --> 01:09:44,860
even if that diversity
has always been there.
1365
01:09:46,020 --> 01:09:48,139
What was impossible in 1941,
1366
01:09:48,219 --> 01:09:49,700
when Wonder Woman's creator
1367
01:09:49,780 --> 01:09:52,660
only implied
the heroine's bisexuality,
1368
01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:55,339
is, today, explicit
in many titles.
1369
01:09:55,419 --> 01:09:58,219
She-Ra and Batwoman aren't
the only characters concerned.
1370
01:09:58,299 --> 01:10:02,499
Even Marvel's Asgard takes
an interest in LGBT issues.
1371
01:10:02,579 --> 01:10:05,740
Angela is
a pansexual character.
1372
01:10:07,579 --> 01:10:11,299
She's in a relationship
with a trans woman,
1373
01:10:11,379 --> 01:10:12,980
who was developed
for the series.
1374
01:10:13,060 --> 01:10:15,980
She's Thor
and Loki's forgotten sister.
1375
01:10:16,060 --> 01:10:18,219
There was
no particular pressure.
1376
01:10:19,219 --> 01:10:21,820
With Kieron and Jimenez,
1377
01:10:21,900 --> 01:10:28,299
we tried to deal with
the question rather quickly
1378
01:10:28,379 --> 01:10:31,700
because that wasn't
the most important point.
1379
01:10:31,780 --> 01:10:32,980
The character is important
1380
01:10:33,060 --> 01:10:35,539
but that particular story
isn't the focus.
1381
01:10:35,620 --> 01:10:37,299
Their collective story
is the focus.
1382
01:10:37,379 --> 01:10:38,940
She's a character
like any other,
1383
01:10:39,020 --> 01:10:40,820
with a background
like everyone else.
1384
01:10:40,900 --> 01:10:42,900
That's one of the things
I appreciate the most,
1385
01:10:42,980 --> 01:10:47,379
I have always been given free
rein to interpret things my way.
1386
01:10:47,459 --> 01:10:53,060
I was never asked to reframe
things one way or another.
1387
01:10:53,139 --> 01:10:56,179
Alters, a series
by Paul Jenkins and Leila Leiz,
1388
01:10:56,259 --> 01:10:58,660
issued by independent publisher
Aftershock,
1389
01:10:58,740 --> 01:11:00,499
also addresses these issues
1390
01:11:00,579 --> 01:11:02,299
through the prism
of superheroes.
1391
01:11:02,379 --> 01:11:06,539
Alters is the story
of a young boy, Charlie,
1392
01:11:06,620 --> 01:11:09,179
who is transitioning
to become a woman.
1393
01:11:09,259 --> 01:11:10,860
In the meantime,
he also discovers
1394
01:11:10,940 --> 01:11:12,539
that he has special powers.
1395
01:11:12,620 --> 01:11:16,900
And as he's in that transition
to become a woman,
1396
01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:20,419
he transforms into Chalice
to do justice in the city.
1397
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:25,060
Diversity also
means differences in appearance
1398
01:11:25,139 --> 01:11:27,940
as well as in tone
and story type.
1399
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:29,740
Who would have thought
that one day
1400
01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:32,459
we would meet a superwoman
with squirrel powers?
1401
01:11:32,539 --> 01:11:33,620
At the same time,
1402
01:11:33,700 --> 01:11:39,700
there's a lot of superheroes
who don't have that standard,
1403
01:11:39,780 --> 01:11:43,259
that unrealistic proportions
that they had in the 90s,
1404
01:11:43,339 --> 01:11:45,499
and they find
their audience too.
1405
01:11:45,579 --> 01:11:49,139
For example, Squirrel Girl
is a college student
1406
01:11:49,219 --> 01:11:55,700
who's drawn, these days,
a little bigger,
1407
01:11:55,780 --> 01:11:56,860
not tiny-waisted,
1408
01:11:56,940 --> 01:12:00,379
the way characters
in the 90s were drawn.
1409
01:12:00,459 --> 01:12:03,299
I found out about her
in the comics,
1410
01:12:03,379 --> 01:12:07,579
and, for me,
she was completely kitsch.
1411
01:12:07,660 --> 01:12:11,539
A woman with squirrel powers,
to me, was completely absurd.
1412
01:12:11,620 --> 01:12:13,820
What are your superpowers?
1413
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:15,419
Well, I have squirrel powers
1414
01:12:15,499 --> 01:12:19,020
and I can beat the biggest
bad guys in the Marvel world.
1415
01:12:19,100 --> 01:12:23,780
But she's also intelligent
enough to build strategies
1416
01:12:23,860 --> 01:12:27,179
to defeat bad guys
1417
01:12:27,259 --> 01:12:29,780
that no other character
has managed to overcome.
1418
01:12:29,860 --> 01:12:32,419
Following in
Captain Marvel's footsteps,
1419
01:12:32,499 --> 01:12:33,499
a number of heroines
1420
01:12:33,579 --> 01:12:35,459
are claiming equality
with male heroes
1421
01:12:35,539 --> 01:12:36,740
by replacing them.
1422
01:12:36,820 --> 01:12:40,499
In comics, Jane Foster,
Thor's former fiancée,
1423
01:12:40,579 --> 01:12:44,219
ended up taking on her friend's
identity and powers.
1424
01:12:44,299 --> 01:12:45,860
And Wolverine, for a few years,
1425
01:12:45,940 --> 01:12:47,940
took a back seat
to a female clone,
1426
01:12:48,020 --> 01:12:50,100
his biological daughter
of sorts.
1427
01:12:50,179 --> 01:12:56,259
Sometimes,
a character takes the mantle
1428
01:12:56,339 --> 01:12:58,219
of another superhero.
1429
01:12:58,299 --> 01:13:00,020
We have seen it in Thor.
1430
01:13:00,100 --> 01:13:02,740
We have seen it in Wolverine.
1431
01:13:03,539 --> 01:13:05,820
The point is that,
1432
01:13:05,900 --> 01:13:11,299
lately,
there's a reactionary movement
1433
01:13:11,379 --> 01:13:15,780
against women becoming powerful,
1434
01:13:15,860 --> 01:13:20,100
having their part of power,
the part they deserve.
1435
01:13:21,299 --> 01:13:22,539
And they get angry
1436
01:13:22,620 --> 01:13:26,780
because now Wolverine can be
a woman for a while.
1437
01:13:26,860 --> 01:13:30,339
But they didn't complain
when Thor was a frog.
1438
01:13:30,419 --> 01:13:32,660
And Thor was a frog
for some time,
1439
01:13:32,740 --> 01:13:35,020
and nobody cared about that!
1440
01:13:35,100 --> 01:13:40,980
I think it's OK as long
as the story is a good story.
1441
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:44,020
And All-New Wolverine
was a good story.
1442
01:13:44,100 --> 01:13:45,419
I think that
1443
01:13:45,499 --> 01:13:51,980
the perfect image of superheroes
was readjusted over the years.
1444
01:13:52,060 --> 01:13:56,620
They began to be designed
as more human
1445
01:13:56,700 --> 01:13:58,060
in terms of appearance.
1446
01:13:58,139 --> 01:14:00,499
I remember Ms. Marvel.
1447
01:14:00,579 --> 01:14:01,660
As the years went by,
1448
01:14:01,740 --> 01:14:03,459
she was
completely revolutionized
1449
01:14:03,539 --> 01:14:09,820
to become closer to a concept
of someone we could meet
1450
01:14:09,900 --> 01:14:13,700
in our neighborhood, someone we
could meet at the supermarket.
1451
01:14:13,780 --> 01:14:15,900
And I think
that's a very beautiful thing.
1452
01:14:16,579 --> 01:14:19,980
Carol Danvers
abandoned the name Ms. Marvel
1453
01:14:20,060 --> 01:14:21,940
in order for her
to better become Captain,
1454
01:14:22,020 --> 01:14:23,299
and the Ms. Marvel identity
1455
01:14:23,379 --> 01:14:25,339
was attributed
to a young, modern heiress
1456
01:14:25,419 --> 01:14:27,579
in Marvel's first
regular series
1457
01:14:27,660 --> 01:14:30,060
with a Muslim female
protagonist.
1458
01:14:30,139 --> 01:14:34,339
Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan,
is really a small revolution.
1459
01:14:34,419 --> 01:14:35,740
She was even a big revolution
1460
01:14:35,820 --> 01:14:37,459
at the time
when she first appeared.
1461
01:14:37,539 --> 01:14:38,860
She was everywhere.
1462
01:14:38,940 --> 01:14:41,499
It was amazing to see a new
generation of heroines arrive
1463
01:14:41,579 --> 01:14:44,940
and represent a new generation
of female readers too.
1464
01:14:45,020 --> 01:14:47,900
She's a young Pakistani
and Muslim girl,
1465
01:14:47,980 --> 01:14:51,980
created by two Muslim women.
1466
01:14:52,060 --> 01:14:55,499
At the time, when she appeared
in the Marvel world,
1467
01:14:55,579 --> 01:14:56,900
it was a small revolution,
1468
01:14:56,980 --> 01:15:00,299
not only because her character
didn't exist before that point,
1469
01:15:00,379 --> 01:15:03,700
but also because she reached
a new readership.
1470
01:15:03,780 --> 01:15:06,539
Other people,
other female readers,
1471
01:15:06,620 --> 01:15:09,900
began to take an interest
in this type of heroine,
1472
01:15:09,980 --> 01:15:12,259
and it really revolutionized,
in a way,
1473
01:15:12,339 --> 01:15:14,060
the comic's readership
at the time.
1474
01:15:14,139 --> 01:15:16,940
Maybe a Muslim girl
might find herself
1475
01:15:18,100 --> 01:15:20,259
sharing stories of Ms. Marvel
1476
01:15:20,339 --> 01:15:23,539
more than sharing stories
about Captain America and stuff.
1477
01:15:23,620 --> 01:15:25,459
But I think...
1478
01:15:25,539 --> 01:15:28,980
I like the growth, but it should
only be the beginning.
1479
01:15:38,900 --> 01:15:41,620
Diversity can be
achieved at any level.
1480
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:45,740
There is room for heroines such
as Kamala Khan or Squirrel Girl,
1481
01:15:45,820 --> 01:15:48,940
but also for more cynical
female characters
1482
01:15:49,020 --> 01:15:52,100
marked by life,
such as Jessica Jones.
1483
01:15:52,179 --> 01:15:56,940
Jessica Jones is superheroine
meets American film detective.
1484
01:15:57,020 --> 01:16:01,139
To me, she's really
a true-fake superheroine.
1485
01:16:01,219 --> 01:16:04,740
She's a heroine adapted
from a comic for Netflix,
1486
01:16:04,820 --> 01:16:07,139
but she's been adapted
by a woman
1487
01:16:07,219 --> 01:16:11,020
who has, to my mind,
brought new balance to things
1488
01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:12,299
compared to the comics.
1489
01:16:12,379 --> 01:16:14,379
A woman who has changed
a few things.
1490
01:16:14,459 --> 01:16:16,379
She doesn't wear a sexy costume
in the series.
1491
01:16:16,459 --> 01:16:18,539
She won't smile,
1492
01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:22,219
and so, she's actually
an anti-supergirl.
1493
01:16:22,299 --> 01:16:23,339
In Jessica Jones,
1494
01:16:23,419 --> 01:16:25,860
the first bad guy
sent against her is Kilgrave,
1495
01:16:25,940 --> 01:16:29,379
a man who invades her thoughts
and forces her to do things.
1496
01:16:29,459 --> 01:16:34,060
And even if it's not
very explicit in the series,
1497
01:16:34,139 --> 01:16:36,740
it seems that Kilgrave raped
and assaulted Jessica Jones
1498
01:16:36,820 --> 01:16:38,539
before we meet her
in the series.
1499
01:16:38,620 --> 01:16:41,419
So, Jessica Jones is a very
modern series and character
1500
01:16:41,499 --> 01:16:43,539
because if she raises
the issue of consent,
1501
01:16:43,620 --> 01:16:45,860
she raises the issue of rape.
1502
01:16:45,940 --> 01:16:50,100
What Kilgrave forces her to do
is smile.
1503
01:16:50,179 --> 01:16:51,740
He tells her, "Smile."
1504
01:16:51,820 --> 01:16:56,299
as Jessica Jones' smile
is a mark of her submission.
1505
01:16:56,379 --> 01:16:59,020
It's why she refuses to smile
1506
01:16:59,100 --> 01:17:00,579
for a very long time
in the series
1507
01:17:00,660 --> 01:17:04,499
and it's why, for her, smiling
is a form of domination.
1508
01:17:04,579 --> 01:17:06,139
Be it in the movies
or in real life,
1509
01:17:06,219 --> 01:17:08,620
there's always this thing
about women having to smile,
1510
01:17:08,700 --> 01:17:10,940
to be nice, to be cute.
Jessica Jones rejects all that.
1511
01:17:14,700 --> 01:17:17,179
At the end
of our trip, it is clear
1512
01:17:17,259 --> 01:17:20,860
that 80 years after Miss Fury
and Wonder Woman were created,
1513
01:17:20,940 --> 01:17:23,579
superheroines have become
a phenomenon
1514
01:17:23,660 --> 01:17:26,020
representing many profiles
of women.
1515
01:17:26,100 --> 01:17:28,100
A female comic book artist
in San Francisco
1516
01:17:28,179 --> 01:17:29,980
now speaks
much the same language
1517
01:17:30,060 --> 01:17:32,700
as other female artists
in Rome or Toulouse.
1518
01:17:32,780 --> 01:17:35,139
New heroines
are created every month
1519
01:17:35,219 --> 01:17:36,940
and are gradually helping
to make up
1520
01:17:37,020 --> 01:17:38,299
for decades of lost time.
1521
01:17:38,379 --> 01:17:40,820
As long as injustice remains,
1522
01:17:40,900 --> 01:17:42,740
superwomen will be there
to fight it.
1523
01:17:42,820 --> 01:17:47,259
Today, I think we are seeing
a reversing trend,
1524
01:17:47,339 --> 01:17:49,499
and we now have
interesting heroines.
1525
01:17:49,579 --> 01:17:50,700
We started off
1526
01:17:50,780 --> 01:17:53,539
with more female customers
than male customers here,
1527
01:17:53,620 --> 01:17:56,219
from 2017.
1528
01:17:56,299 --> 01:17:59,539
Whatever the direction
comics were going,
1529
01:18:00,740 --> 01:18:05,940
we were benefitting from
it being more open to others.
1530
01:18:06,020 --> 01:18:09,419
I think the representation
of women in comics,
1531
01:18:09,499 --> 01:18:12,499
both in the stories
as characters and as creators,
1532
01:18:12,579 --> 01:18:16,339
has been problematic
in the past
1533
01:18:16,419 --> 01:18:18,539
but it's getting
better and better.
1534
01:18:18,620 --> 01:18:21,620
The reader is not
the traditional male reader.
1535
01:18:21,700 --> 01:18:25,419
The fanbase really shifted
in the last ten years.
1536
01:18:26,459 --> 01:18:31,060
I think around 2009, 2010,
1537
01:18:31,139 --> 01:18:35,740
there was a definite shift
in the fanbase
1538
01:18:35,820 --> 01:18:39,700
towards a more
female-dominated group.
1539
01:18:39,780 --> 01:18:41,700
We are not an exception.
1540
01:18:41,780 --> 01:18:46,259
I am convinced that a great many
of us in the world read comics.
1541
01:18:46,339 --> 01:18:50,900
We realize that the girls
can save the day for the guys,
1542
01:18:50,980 --> 01:18:53,419
that they can succeed in
finding the necessary solution
1543
01:18:53,499 --> 01:18:55,339
to solving one problem
or another.
1544
01:18:55,419 --> 01:18:57,900
Today we have our place
in comics and that's beautiful.
1545
01:18:57,980 --> 01:19:01,860
It's nice to see girls and
superheroines finally come along
1546
01:19:01,940 --> 01:19:05,179
and prove that
they're just as strong as men.
1547
01:19:05,259 --> 01:19:06,620
That does feel good.
1548
01:19:06,700 --> 01:19:08,259
There are
a lot of female writers,
1549
01:19:08,339 --> 01:19:11,620
a lot of female artists,
a lot of female editors.
1550
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:15,299
The era of Supergirl, Catwoman,
Elektra characters,
1551
01:19:15,379 --> 01:19:18,860
who were box office duds,
is over.
1552
01:19:18,940 --> 01:19:21,259
Now, money can be made
with superwomen,
1553
01:19:21,339 --> 01:19:25,820
and I think that's helping
to start new projects
1554
01:19:25,900 --> 01:19:27,339
with such characters.
1555
01:19:27,419 --> 01:19:29,379
There's a huge female audience
1556
01:19:29,459 --> 01:19:31,459
and so, I think
that's really exciting.
1557
01:19:31,539 --> 01:19:32,820
It's make comics better.
1558
01:19:32,900 --> 01:19:36,259
We're in an era where the girls
are taking their place.
1559
01:19:36,339 --> 01:19:40,700
They will be our kids' heroes.
1560
01:19:40,780 --> 01:19:44,780
I think there is a wide variety
of superheroes
1561
01:19:44,860 --> 01:19:49,780
of different races, and ages,
and genders,
1562
01:19:49,860 --> 01:19:51,860
but it is only the beginning,
I think.
1563
01:19:53,020 --> 01:19:54,900
Superheroines of tomorrow
1564
01:19:54,980 --> 01:19:57,740
will be invented by young
female readers of today,
1565
01:19:57,820 --> 01:20:00,179
just as Trina Robbins
or Nicola Scott
1566
01:20:00,259 --> 01:20:03,700
once admired these characters
before starting to draw them.
1567
01:20:04,740 --> 01:20:07,299
Today, young girls in turn
are passionately interested
1568
01:20:07,379 --> 01:20:09,060
in Wonder Woman
and Captain Marvel.
1569
01:20:09,139 --> 01:20:11,539
They will be the ones to carry
the torch into the future.
1570
01:20:12,419 --> 01:20:15,459
The reign of superwomen
is far from over!
124497
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