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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:05,792 --> 00:00:09,042 [wind blowing] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:09,542 --> 00:00:14,418 [slow atmospheric singing] 5 00:00:18,459 --> 00:00:21,126 I've had to renegotiate that memory 6 00:00:21,292 --> 00:00:23,751 over and over and over again. 7 00:00:26,167 --> 00:00:29,668 Gravel spitting and water flying and kids screaming. 8 00:00:30,709 --> 00:00:33,418 It was the summer after I turned eight. 9 00:00:35,792 --> 00:00:38,917 We never really knew what to expect from mum. 10 00:00:39,019 --> 00:00:41,144 During a particularly bad swing, 11 00:00:41,167 --> 00:00:44,945 she went through some really desperate days there and 12 00:00:45,250 --> 00:00:47,375 she put us all in the Bronco 13 00:00:47,584 --> 00:00:50,460 and took us for a drive down to the river. 14 00:00:55,459 --> 00:00:59,251 Before we got to the river, she was just purely robotic. 15 00:01:00,542 --> 00:01:03,001 She decided it was time for all of us... 16 00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:04,709 to die. 17 00:01:04,834 --> 00:01:07,668 It's time to die; we re all gonna feel better soon; 18 00:01:07,751 --> 00:01:09,377 "we'll all feel better soon, 19 00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:11,834 "we re all gonna feel better soon" 20 00:01:14,834 --> 00:01:18,668 My memories of that moment are really in black and white. 21 00:01:20,209 --> 00:01:24,209 I'm not sure I ever really met my mum again after that point. 22 00:01:32,125 --> 00:01:34,125 [slow guttural singing] 23 00:01:44,292 --> 00:01:46,626 - A strange story out of Florida this morning, 24 00:01:46,686 --> 00:01:49,020 where the mother of three children drove 25 00:01:49,045 --> 00:01:51,504 into the ocean off of Daytona Beach. 26 00:01:52,667 --> 00:01:54,876 The pregnant mum spoke of demons 27 00:01:54,876 --> 00:01:57,335 before driving into the Atlantic... 28 00:01:59,459 --> 00:02:02,960 Police say they've never seen anything like this... 29 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:09,334 The tiny city of Newburgh New York is trying to come to grips 30 00:02:09,375 --> 00:02:11,625 with the deaths of 3 young children 31 00:02:11,667 --> 00:02:14,876 who died when their mother drove them into the Hudson River. 32 00:02:14,918 --> 00:02:17,377 We are talking about a tragedy in this city 33 00:02:17,417 --> 00:02:19,834 that I would say is probably second-to-none. 34 00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:23,085 - It all unfolded at this boat ramp Tuesday evening. 35 00:02:23,209 --> 00:02:25,626 - Any effort to locate the vehicle, 36 00:02:25,834 --> 00:02:29,126 difficult at best, it was not floating, it was underwater. 37 00:02:29,334 --> 00:02:31,876 - Among the victims are 2-year old Lance Pierre 38 00:02:31,876 --> 00:02:33,752 and his 11-month old sister. 39 00:02:34,109 --> 00:02:36,709 - Perhaps we should take nothing for granted: 40 00:02:36,709 --> 00:02:38,627 not our loves, nor our lives, 41 00:02:39,081 --> 00:02:40,706 our families or friends, 42 00:02:41,042 --> 00:02:42,292 even our sanity. 43 00:02:42,912 --> 00:02:44,621 One minute, all is well, 44 00:02:44,626 --> 00:02:47,252 the next, we re plunged into darkness, 45 00:02:47,417 --> 00:02:49,459 unable to process what is real, 46 00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:51,210 and what is madness. 47 00:02:52,834 --> 00:02:56,084 Autumn Stringham realized this all-too-young. 48 00:02:56,626 --> 00:02:59,460 - It was the summer after I turned eight. 49 00:02:59,626 --> 00:03:02,626 - She should not be alive, and she knows it. 50 00:03:02,918 --> 00:03:05,710 - That was the moment 51 00:03:06,292 --> 00:03:08,251 that shattered trust. 52 00:03:09,542 --> 00:03:11,460 How do you... 53 00:03:14,334 --> 00:03:17,501 You know, how do you trust anybody after that? 54 00:03:18,209 --> 00:03:21,168 - Forced to confront a mystery beyond her comprehension, 55 00:03:21,209 --> 00:03:23,209 she spent decades haunted, 56 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:24,625 in search of answers, 57 00:03:24,792 --> 00:03:26,293 in pursuit of peace. 58 00:03:26,626 --> 00:03:30,085 When something like killing all six of her children 59 00:03:31,083 --> 00:03:34,001 made sense enough to put the kids in the Bronco 60 00:03:34,042 --> 00:03:35,584 and drive into the river... 61 00:03:35,584 --> 00:03:36,584 I see it. 62 00:03:38,709 --> 00:03:42,251 Gravel spitting and water flying and kids screaming. 63 00:03:42,667 --> 00:03:46,459 Somehow she managed to dig it up to back out of that. 64 00:03:48,106 --> 00:03:50,379 And that's an incredible victory 65 00:03:50,420 --> 00:03:52,585 for somebody in that state of mind. 66 00:03:52,626 --> 00:03:54,377 You know, there are other mothers 67 00:03:54,417 --> 00:03:55,876 who don't win that battle. 68 00:03:56,155 --> 00:03:57,989 - In exchange for this redemption, 69 00:03:58,042 --> 00:03:59,876 there was a price, however. 70 00:04:02,834 --> 00:04:07,168 And it's taken me thirty years 71 00:04:07,959 --> 00:04:08,959 to, um... 72 00:04:14,542 --> 00:04:17,251 to be able to find the... 73 00:04:19,751 --> 00:04:22,085 the beautiful side of that memory. 74 00:04:22,918 --> 00:04:25,918 - Autumn's mum did eventually die by suicide, 75 00:04:25,918 --> 00:04:27,502 alone on a country road. 76 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,918 Tony Stephan was now widowed 77 00:04:29,918 --> 00:04:31,794 with eight children at home. 78 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,751 - I'm laying in bed at night in my room 79 00:04:35,834 --> 00:04:38,710 listening to a house full of mourning; 80 00:04:39,375 --> 00:04:42,042 and it just shattered the whole family. 81 00:04:42,167 --> 00:04:44,668 It just shattered the children, it shattered me. 82 00:04:44,761 --> 00:04:46,887 - It has become so commonplace, 83 00:04:46,918 --> 00:04:49,710 these irrational acts and horrific deeds, 84 00:04:49,876 --> 00:04:51,959 that we've almost become numb to it. 85 00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:54,875 We've seen them in schools and public spaces, 86 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,459 in homes and churches. 87 00:04:57,167 --> 00:04:58,918 They're all over the news. 88 00:04:59,417 --> 00:05:02,500 Try as we might to understand them, we can't. 89 00:05:02,626 --> 00:05:06,293 Try as we might to ignore them, they call to us still. 90 00:05:06,626 --> 00:05:09,709 We called the paramedics, 91 00:05:10,375 --> 00:05:13,084 they tried feverishly to revive her. 92 00:05:14,042 --> 00:05:17,209 And I was trying to give her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation 93 00:05:17,292 --> 00:05:20,126 but I knew something was wrong because her body was cold. 94 00:05:20,292 --> 00:05:24,793 - It's 2004. Andy Downing's world has just been shattered; 95 00:05:25,375 --> 00:05:29,625 his daughter, a victim of an unimaginable act of violence. 96 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:32,042 But it was how this 11-year old girl 97 00:05:32,083 --> 00:05:34,542 died that truly horrified the world: 98 00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:36,750 - Hello, I'm Candace Downing. 99 00:05:37,125 --> 00:05:39,250 - Candace... hanged herself. 100 00:05:39,626 --> 00:05:43,293 When Candace first died, we asked ourselves, 101 00:05:43,375 --> 00:05:46,126 how could we not know that she was unhappy? 102 00:05:46,209 --> 00:05:49,085 - The Downings didn't realize it at the time, of course, 103 00:05:49,167 --> 00:05:51,376 but her case was not a rare event. 104 00:05:51,751 --> 00:05:55,377 No. Candace was far from alone. 105 00:05:56,792 --> 00:06:00,126 - She started on this drug somewhere around January. 106 00:06:00,751 --> 00:06:04,252 And these things make you unafraid. 107 00:06:04,501 --> 00:06:08,710 They make you do things you wouldn't do normally. 108 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:10,625 They make you... 109 00:06:12,375 --> 00:06:16,042 able to put a rope around your neck and hang yourself. 110 00:06:17,334 --> 00:06:20,001 Caitlin died at home and we found her, 111 00:06:20,417 --> 00:06:22,459 and she'd probably had been dead 112 00:06:22,501 --> 00:06:24,460 for maybe at the most five minutes 113 00:06:24,501 --> 00:06:25,751 when we found her. 114 00:06:27,501 --> 00:06:30,584 She'd hanged herself in the guest bedroom upstairs. 115 00:06:31,083 --> 00:06:36,750 It really is like a perfect mystery murder novel. 116 00:06:37,042 --> 00:06:39,709 I mean, it's almost like killing somebody 117 00:06:39,792 --> 00:06:42,543 with an icicle and it melts and the weapon is gone. 118 00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:44,959 - They were still dizzy from death, 119 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:46,501 traumatized and broken, 120 00:06:46,828 --> 00:06:48,787 when they solved the mystery. 121 00:06:48,834 --> 00:06:53,168 The drugs responsible, they say, are called SSRIs 122 00:06:53,417 --> 00:06:56,335 and they're among the best-selling drugs in the world. 123 00:06:56,459 --> 00:06:59,085 It was a sample pack of Paxil. 124 00:06:59,501 --> 00:07:00,501 Cipralex. 125 00:07:00,667 --> 00:07:02,126 Sertraline, which is Zoloft. 126 00:07:02,250 --> 00:07:06,917 And the maximum dose of Zoloft legally allowed. 127 00:07:07,334 --> 00:07:11,252 There was one thing in her system in the coroner's report: 128 00:07:11,626 --> 00:07:15,460 a therapeutic dose of Fluoxetine hydrochloride. 129 00:07:15,918 --> 00:07:19,252 SSRIs are better known as antidepressants. 130 00:07:19,375 --> 00:07:21,458 These are some symptoms of depression. 131 00:07:21,501 --> 00:07:24,584 Psychiatric drugs like SSRIs have been defended 132 00:07:24,667 --> 00:07:26,667 with religious zeal by their believers 133 00:07:26,834 --> 00:07:28,209 and damned by others 134 00:07:28,209 --> 00:07:30,918 as some of the most dangerous drugs on the planet. 135 00:07:31,167 --> 00:07:34,126 Distinguishing truth from fiction has been a challenge, 136 00:07:34,203 --> 00:07:37,620 and this has placed the public in the unenviable position 137 00:07:37,673 --> 00:07:39,686 of de-constructing the scientific 138 00:07:39,711 --> 00:07:41,788 and medical dogma on their own, 139 00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:44,918 in the midst of a 30-year social experiment. 140 00:07:45,459 --> 00:07:48,673 As Director of the National Institutes of Mental Health, 141 00:07:48,751 --> 00:07:51,960 Thomas Insel has been at the centre of a storm 142 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,417 of contradictions about the use of these drugs. 143 00:07:54,709 --> 00:07:57,751 I think that we have to be very humble about this right now, 144 00:07:57,792 --> 00:08:00,501 because we've often been so self-congratulatory, 145 00:08:00,542 --> 00:08:03,001 because we have, after all, 146 00:08:03,751 --> 00:08:06,293 many people feel, made great strides. 147 00:08:06,918 --> 00:08:09,293 The numbers don't really support that. 148 00:08:09,459 --> 00:08:12,834 - Dr. Insel's candour is sure to shock and upset many, 149 00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:14,752 on all sides of the debate. 150 00:08:14,834 --> 00:08:18,376 The word failure is one few have dared to utter. 151 00:08:18,584 --> 00:08:20,751 Fundamentally, why have we failed here? 152 00:08:20,792 --> 00:08:23,459 Why has the suicide rate not come down? 153 00:08:23,667 --> 00:08:27,042 Why have the measures, disability, 154 00:08:27,083 --> 00:08:28,542 whatever those might be, 155 00:08:28,542 --> 00:08:31,376 why have those continued to go up instead of down? 156 00:08:31,501 --> 00:08:34,168 All of the numbers are going in the wrong direction, 157 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:37,542 so where, where have we failed? What's gone wrong here? 158 00:08:37,709 --> 00:08:39,876 - The answers, according to Insel, 159 00:08:40,042 --> 00:08:42,751 run contrary to the standard arguments put forth 160 00:08:42,751 --> 00:08:44,834 by mental health professionals. 161 00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:48,042 - A lot of people say it's because of stigma and access. 162 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:50,333 The fact is that actually more people are 163 00:08:50,358 --> 00:08:52,400 getting more treatment than ever before, 164 00:08:52,448 --> 00:08:54,573 so it's hard for me to quite believe that. 165 00:08:54,709 --> 00:08:58,251 I would just submit that from the NIMH perspective, 166 00:08:59,083 --> 00:09:01,417 the answer about why we've failed 167 00:09:01,459 --> 00:09:04,918 is a little more disruptive. 168 00:09:05,125 --> 00:09:07,792 And that answer is that we don't know enough. 169 00:09:08,042 --> 00:09:11,292 - To hear the Director of the NIMH say now that 170 00:09:11,334 --> 00:09:14,210 all of the exultations about psychotropics 171 00:09:14,459 --> 00:09:16,542 from the media, from academia, 172 00:09:16,667 --> 00:09:18,959 from the profession, from governments, 173 00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:21,792 were not merited is unsettling. 174 00:09:22,237 --> 00:09:24,362 After billions of prescriptions 175 00:09:24,417 --> 00:09:28,084 and hundreds of billions of dollars in drug company profits, 176 00:09:28,153 --> 00:09:29,445 how did this occur? 177 00:09:29,501 --> 00:09:33,085 I think that our field has gone off track here 178 00:09:33,125 --> 00:09:35,751 by devoting so much of its resources 179 00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:37,959 over the last 20 to 30 years, 180 00:09:38,042 --> 00:09:40,001 both publicly and privately, 181 00:09:40,042 --> 00:09:42,709 just trying to understand how the drugs work. 182 00:09:42,792 --> 00:09:45,042 If the drugs were truly curative, 183 00:09:45,542 --> 00:09:47,625 if it was like trying to understand how 184 00:09:47,709 --> 00:09:49,876 insulin helps somebody with diabetes, 185 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,667 that might be defensible. 186 00:09:51,918 --> 00:09:55,013 But you've got medications here that, at most 187 00:09:55,083 --> 00:09:59,042 reduce some of the symptoms of mood disorders, 188 00:09:59,452 --> 00:10:01,078 of psychotic disorders. 189 00:10:01,122 --> 00:10:03,914 They don't, in any sense, provide a cure. 190 00:10:04,417 --> 00:10:07,417 This change of heart contradicts what we've been told 191 00:10:07,451 --> 00:10:10,017 about psychiatric drugs for a generation now 192 00:10:10,042 --> 00:10:13,417 and raises serious questions about how and why these drugs 193 00:10:13,417 --> 00:10:17,209 have been dispensed so indiscriminately to millions. 194 00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:19,168 - I was massively drugged. 195 00:10:19,209 --> 00:10:20,626 I tried drug after drug. 196 00:10:20,667 --> 00:10:22,667 I did what they told me to do. 197 00:10:22,751 --> 00:10:25,126 I used to take tranquillizers, 198 00:10:25,292 --> 00:10:26,667 bezodiazepines, 199 00:10:27,083 --> 00:10:29,750 that's all I did was pop pills all day. 200 00:10:29,959 --> 00:10:32,084 They just kept handing me pills, you know, 201 00:10:32,125 --> 00:10:34,834 here, let's try this, let's try this, let's try this. 202 00:10:34,876 --> 00:10:38,126 And I felt like a walking pharmaceutical company, really. 203 00:10:38,334 --> 00:10:40,459 And nothing was working. 204 00:10:40,459 --> 00:10:41,709 I was drugged out. 205 00:10:41,709 --> 00:10:43,792 I was a non-existent person. 206 00:10:43,792 --> 00:10:45,209 I mean, I was just... 207 00:10:45,334 --> 00:10:48,417 I had a heartbeat and that's really all that I had. 208 00:10:48,417 --> 00:10:50,751 I was just sort of given these pills and said, 209 00:10:50,792 --> 00:10:52,751 Swallow this. Take that. Chew this. 210 00:10:52,876 --> 00:10:54,377 And I was never told: 211 00:10:54,417 --> 00:10:56,876 well, you might experience these side-effects, 212 00:10:56,904 --> 00:10:58,655 or this actually might not work. 213 00:10:58,694 --> 00:11:01,249 It's sort of like they were just was given to me 214 00:11:01,274 --> 00:11:03,490 as like a panacea like, 215 00:11:03,501 --> 00:11:05,419 This is going to fix your Tourette's. 216 00:11:05,459 --> 00:11:07,085 "This is going to fix your OCD. 217 00:11:07,125 --> 00:11:08,917 "This is going to fix everything and 218 00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:10,918 "everything is going to be all better. 219 00:11:10,973 --> 00:11:13,724 Really, as an 8 or 9-year-old, I really believed that, 220 00:11:13,745 --> 00:11:16,162 until I began really experiencing 221 00:11:16,207 --> 00:11:17,916 all those horrible side-effects 222 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,692 and it eventually changed me into not even a person, 223 00:11:21,725 --> 00:11:23,143 but like a monster. 224 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:24,459 I was horrible. 225 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,085 Doctors, to a large degree, have abandoned 226 00:11:27,167 --> 00:11:30,334 their Hippocratic oath, which is to do no harm. 227 00:11:30,542 --> 00:11:33,334 And that is, it's like a pill for every ill. 228 00:11:33,709 --> 00:11:36,418 They are knee jerk prescribers, many of them. 229 00:11:36,626 --> 00:11:39,168 In fact, it has been shown that the average doctor 230 00:11:39,209 --> 00:11:41,543 will make a decision to prescribe a drug 231 00:11:41,667 --> 00:11:44,543 within 19 seconds of seeing a patient. 232 00:11:44,709 --> 00:11:48,376 Using antidepressants, or any of the psychiatric drugs 233 00:11:48,751 --> 00:11:51,210 is simply not understood, 234 00:11:51,250 --> 00:11:54,417 it's not explained, it's not dwelt upon. 235 00:11:55,083 --> 00:11:58,875 I think they're in a different class of drug from 236 00:11:58,876 --> 00:12:02,710 most of the drugs we take for our other ailments. 237 00:12:02,834 --> 00:12:05,876 - In the 80s and 90s, SSRIs were the first 238 00:12:05,959 --> 00:12:08,751 in a class of new mental health potions 239 00:12:08,918 --> 00:12:12,127 heralded as wonder drugs and miracle cures. 240 00:12:12,334 --> 00:12:14,459 They were extolled as safe and effective 241 00:12:14,501 --> 00:12:17,480 solutions for the age-old problem of depression 242 00:12:17,501 --> 00:12:19,293 and were marketed as such. 243 00:12:19,417 --> 00:12:23,876 Thus began an aggressive march towards a new era in psychiatry, 244 00:12:23,918 --> 00:12:27,377 one which boasted chemicals for the mental health conditions 245 00:12:27,417 --> 00:12:29,834 that had dogged humankind for millennia. 246 00:12:30,083 --> 00:12:33,292 Thirty years later, however, the window on that era, 247 00:12:33,334 --> 00:12:36,334 and its bold proclamations, appears to be closing. 248 00:12:36,751 --> 00:12:38,001 What are we doing? 249 00:12:38,299 --> 00:12:40,633 I mean, especially when it comes to children, 250 00:12:40,667 --> 00:12:42,667 we don't really know how the drugs work, 251 00:12:42,667 --> 00:12:44,376 we don't know whether they work, 252 00:12:44,417 --> 00:12:46,542 we don't know whether they're neurotoxic, 253 00:12:46,584 --> 00:12:48,584 and so that means we re all in the middle 254 00:12:48,667 --> 00:12:50,209 of a public health experiment 255 00:12:50,275 --> 00:12:52,567 that's been going on for the last 50-60 years 256 00:12:52,584 --> 00:12:54,709 and more intensively for the last 30 years. 257 00:12:54,987 --> 00:12:57,445 My prediction, I don't think I'll live to see it 258 00:12:57,584 --> 00:13:00,751 but my prediction is, that some day, 259 00:13:01,042 --> 00:13:04,584 we will look back at the antidepressant era 260 00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:08,918 and have the view of prescribing antidepressants 261 00:13:09,083 --> 00:13:11,584 that now we have of blood-letting. 262 00:13:11,959 --> 00:13:14,293 - Irving Kirsch rocked psychiatry 263 00:13:14,334 --> 00:13:16,293 with an appearance on 60 Minutes 264 00:13:16,375 --> 00:13:19,584 and an explosive book, The Emperor's New Drugs. 265 00:13:19,709 --> 00:13:22,959 Three times he tested the data on SSRIs, 266 00:13:23,083 --> 00:13:26,500 three times, he verified that prescription antidepressants 267 00:13:26,667 --> 00:13:29,244 were no better than taking a sugar pill. 268 00:13:29,417 --> 00:13:32,001 Still, he was under fire from critics 269 00:13:32,083 --> 00:13:33,792 who vowed to prove him wrong. 270 00:13:34,209 --> 00:13:36,584 People started doing other studies. 271 00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:39,834 They said, well maybe you did your statistics wrong. 272 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,501 Critics, opponents, they took our data an re-did it. 273 00:13:43,709 --> 00:13:46,418 The FDA has done its own meta-analysis, 274 00:13:46,459 --> 00:13:49,043 looking at all of the antidepressants 275 00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:51,250 they've ever approved. 276 00:13:51,626 --> 00:13:55,377 And they got the same result. Everybody gets the same result. 277 00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,794 In the immediate, it could make a huge difference. 278 00:13:58,918 --> 00:14:01,252 You could have someone going from being 279 00:14:01,292 --> 00:14:03,168 psychotic to being non-psychotic, 280 00:14:03,292 --> 00:14:06,375 which is a pretty amazing change in behaviour. 281 00:14:06,959 --> 00:14:09,710 But what I think what we need to recognize 282 00:14:09,792 --> 00:14:11,795 that's happened over the last 50 years 283 00:14:11,834 --> 00:14:17,585 is that they haven't shown to be as good as we thought they were. 284 00:14:18,459 --> 00:14:20,876 - Yet, in the case of psychiatric drugs, 285 00:14:20,897 --> 00:14:23,383 informed choice is a bit of a misnomer 286 00:14:23,438 --> 00:14:27,251 and finding the path of least risk can be daunting. 287 00:14:27,272 --> 00:14:30,148 In this vacuum, millions have been harmed, 288 00:14:30,209 --> 00:14:32,085 simply due to a lack of knowledge. 289 00:14:32,167 --> 00:14:34,834 Psychiatrists knowledge and training 290 00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:36,751 in the area of psycho-pharmacology 291 00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:39,084 is completely inadequate, in my view. 292 00:14:39,125 --> 00:14:40,959 And this is partly because of the focus 293 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,584 on the disease-centred model. 294 00:14:42,643 --> 00:14:44,435 Psychiatrists have been so obsessed 295 00:14:44,475 --> 00:14:46,309 with what disease different drugs treat, 296 00:14:46,334 --> 00:14:48,376 they haven't looked at the drugs as drugs, 297 00:14:48,417 --> 00:14:50,043 and they haven't understood all the 298 00:14:50,083 --> 00:14:51,709 harmful effects the drugs can produce. 299 00:14:51,751 --> 00:14:54,310 It's time for us to stop and reflect on this and say, 300 00:14:54,375 --> 00:14:57,251 Okay. Where are we at with the use of medications? 301 00:14:57,375 --> 00:14:59,584 It serves a purpose, it's got a place, 302 00:14:59,751 --> 00:15:02,669 but we need to also stop and recognize 303 00:15:02,751 --> 00:15:04,627 that there is a cost to this 304 00:15:04,709 --> 00:15:09,001 and that there are people who are struggling 305 00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:12,167 for other reasons now because of the side effects 306 00:15:12,209 --> 00:15:14,085 associated with these medications. 307 00:15:14,375 --> 00:15:16,876 - While the drug companies ruthlessly defended 308 00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:19,794 their magic bullets in the Courts and through the Press, 309 00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:22,085 they were, in effect, stigmatising 310 00:15:22,125 --> 00:15:24,375 people who were harmed by using them. 311 00:15:24,584 --> 00:15:26,709 The long lens of history has revealed 312 00:15:26,751 --> 00:15:29,918 that the troubling effects of these chemicals were well-known, 313 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,292 years before FDA and other regulatory bodies 314 00:15:33,334 --> 00:15:35,709 actually approved SSRIs. 315 00:15:35,792 --> 00:15:38,001 This is hard for me because I tried to 316 00:15:38,125 --> 00:15:40,709 commit suicide in front of my five children. 317 00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:43,210 I attacked him with a kitchen knife. 318 00:15:43,375 --> 00:15:45,334 I took the 9mm automatic, 319 00:15:45,417 --> 00:15:48,209 sat down on the bed and put the gun to my head. 320 00:15:48,375 --> 00:15:50,667 After being on Prozac for 21 days, 321 00:15:50,918 --> 00:15:53,960 my wife shot and killed both of these two boys right here. 322 00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:57,834 Eli Lilly calls Prozac the wonder drug and I wonder why? 323 00:15:57,918 --> 00:16:00,585 Thinking back on how this drug affected me, 324 00:16:00,709 --> 00:16:03,293 does a wonder drug rob you of a conscience? 325 00:16:03,334 --> 00:16:05,252 Does a wonder drug make you forget 326 00:16:05,292 --> 00:16:07,210 the difference between right and wrong? 327 00:16:07,292 --> 00:16:10,584 In the early 1990's this issue had reached a peak, 328 00:16:10,667 --> 00:16:13,001 was Prozac causing violence and suicide? 329 00:16:13,083 --> 00:16:17,208 But what happened was that their psycho-pharmacology committee, 330 00:16:17,334 --> 00:16:19,501 almost everybody on the committee 331 00:16:19,584 --> 00:16:21,376 worked for the drug companies. 332 00:16:21,542 --> 00:16:24,667 So the conflicts of interest was so enormous 333 00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:27,181 that the FDA had to give them all letters 334 00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:29,500 forgiving them of their conflicts of interest 335 00:16:29,584 --> 00:16:30,876 so they couldn't be sued. 336 00:16:31,098 --> 00:16:33,140 - What about your concern regarding 337 00:16:33,209 --> 00:16:34,876 something like Prozac that, 338 00:16:34,959 --> 00:16:38,293 very well documented: 28,000 adverse reports, 339 00:16:38,501 --> 00:16:42,127 1600 suicides associated with that drug. 340 00:16:43,167 --> 00:16:47,417 Well, drugs that go through our very rigorous testing 341 00:16:47,501 --> 00:16:51,626 and review process are very well understood chemicals. 342 00:16:51,792 --> 00:16:55,668 And drugs are recognized to have both risks and benefits, 343 00:16:55,751 --> 00:16:58,293 that's why they go through a rigorous evaluation, 344 00:16:58,335 --> 00:17:00,786 and when those products are put out on the market, 345 00:17:00,834 --> 00:17:02,752 we have a good scientific understanding 346 00:17:02,834 --> 00:17:04,460 of both the risks and benefits. 347 00:17:04,542 --> 00:17:06,834 And that's laid out in very detailed labelling 348 00:17:06,876 --> 00:17:09,821 that physicians then use to decide whether to 349 00:17:09,918 --> 00:17:12,210 prescribe those products to their patients. 350 00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:14,917 Side effects are part of pharmaceuticals, 351 00:17:14,959 --> 00:17:16,710 that's recognized, and that's why 352 00:17:16,792 --> 00:17:18,792 we re so carefully scientifically. 353 00:17:18,918 --> 00:17:22,001 Well, nothing could be further from the truth than 354 00:17:22,042 --> 00:17:23,834 the chemical is well understood 355 00:17:23,918 --> 00:17:25,794 or that the FDA was careful. 356 00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:28,585 Actually, what the FDA was careful about 357 00:17:28,834 --> 00:17:33,335 was to consciously cover-up every 358 00:17:33,584 --> 00:17:36,918 really dangerous adverse effect of Prozac. 359 00:17:37,292 --> 00:17:40,168 - ...was on the list of things we were gonna get into... 360 00:17:40,209 --> 00:17:41,376 - Why don't you... 361 00:17:41,542 --> 00:17:43,834 turn the camera off so we can talk? 362 00:17:44,334 --> 00:17:47,001 - They did nothing, absolutely nothing. 363 00:17:47,125 --> 00:17:50,485 Meanwhile, Eli Lilly was busily hiding 364 00:17:50,584 --> 00:17:54,834 everything they could about the increased rates of suicidality. 365 00:17:55,417 --> 00:17:59,209 It was a matter of how do we cover it up? How do we hide it? 366 00:17:59,292 --> 00:18:01,084 At every step of the process, 367 00:18:01,125 --> 00:18:03,626 towards approval and marketing thereafter, 368 00:18:03,667 --> 00:18:08,876 was designed to hide and mislead the public 369 00:18:08,918 --> 00:18:11,210 and physicians about the suicide side effect. 370 00:18:11,542 --> 00:18:14,418 Leigh Thompson, the chief scientist at Lilly 371 00:18:14,542 --> 00:18:16,584 writes in February 7, 1990, 372 00:18:16,751 --> 00:18:19,210 that he had a conversation with 373 00:18:19,292 --> 00:18:21,417 Dr. Paul Leber at 6:15 in the morning. 374 00:18:21,751 --> 00:18:23,085 Now, think about that. 375 00:18:23,209 --> 00:18:25,321 You work for the United States government, 376 00:18:25,417 --> 00:18:27,667 the taxpayers of the United States government, 377 00:18:27,751 --> 00:18:29,460 and your job is to be my watchdog. 378 00:18:29,584 --> 00:18:32,335 Do you think I'm going to call you at 6:15 in the morning? 379 00:18:32,375 --> 00:18:35,251 And oh, by the way, if you want to send me something, 380 00:18:35,292 --> 00:18:38,001 I've got this special back line over here at the FDA. 381 00:18:38,068 --> 00:18:40,110 Send it through back channels, you know, 382 00:18:40,167 --> 00:18:42,085 so other people don't get it 383 00:18:42,167 --> 00:18:44,918 just feed me this info on the QT. 384 00:18:45,209 --> 00:18:46,918 I mean it's extraordinary. 385 00:18:47,375 --> 00:18:49,792 - Lilly's own secret files implicate 386 00:18:49,834 --> 00:18:54,168 the FDA's Paul Leber, Robert Temple and Thomas Laughren 387 00:18:54,292 --> 00:18:56,126 as being complicit in a scheme to 388 00:18:56,209 --> 00:18:58,835 whitewash the dark facts about Prozac. 389 00:18:59,584 --> 00:19:01,834 There are some very telling documents 390 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,209 that show the cosy relationship between FDA officials 391 00:19:06,334 --> 00:19:10,085 and Eli Lilly in those early years, in the early 1990s. 392 00:19:10,501 --> 00:19:13,793 Lilly employees or Lilly personnel 393 00:19:13,876 --> 00:19:18,460 referring to certain members of FDA as our friend in the FDA. 394 00:19:18,584 --> 00:19:20,460 they're our defender. 395 00:19:20,918 --> 00:19:25,377 They were working hard to get over this suicide issue 396 00:19:25,417 --> 00:19:27,500 and they referred to the suicide issue 397 00:19:27,542 --> 00:19:29,959 as a public relations problem. 398 00:19:30,209 --> 00:19:33,626 - Eli Lilly has been called The House That Prozac Built. 399 00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:35,543 Before the drug was introduced, 400 00:19:35,667 --> 00:19:39,001 Lilly reported earnings of 600 million dollars annually. 401 00:19:39,083 --> 00:19:41,250 Prozac changed Lilly's fortunes, 402 00:19:41,334 --> 00:19:44,210 and the company banked at least 21 billion dollars 403 00:19:44,334 --> 00:19:47,584 in profits from the drug over the life of their patent. 404 00:19:49,459 --> 00:19:53,793 [pop music] 405 00:19:54,821 --> 00:19:56,446 - When I say to some people, 406 00:19:56,459 --> 00:19:58,584 prescriptions drugs are the fourth leading 407 00:19:58,626 --> 00:20:00,168 cause of death in our society, 408 00:20:00,209 --> 00:20:01,960 that seems to be the dividing line. 409 00:20:02,042 --> 00:20:04,292 There's some people who already know it's true, 410 00:20:04,375 --> 00:20:06,375 who have read about it and understand it. 411 00:20:06,417 --> 00:20:08,001 Then there's others who think, 412 00:20:08,042 --> 00:20:10,125 Oh, that's a myth. That can't be true. 413 00:20:10,292 --> 00:20:13,417 They simply can't conceive of that, so they stop listening. 414 00:20:13,626 --> 00:20:16,709 - Terence Young is a Member of Parliament in Canada, 415 00:20:16,834 --> 00:20:20,293 serving Oakville, Ontario, just outside of Toronto. 416 00:20:20,584 --> 00:20:22,460 After a prescription drug caused 417 00:20:22,542 --> 00:20:24,376 the death of his daughter Vanessa, 418 00:20:24,459 --> 00:20:27,501 he founded an advocacy group, Drug Safety Canada. 419 00:20:27,709 --> 00:20:29,460 Vanessa collapsed in front of me. 420 00:20:29,626 --> 00:20:33,626 Her heart had stopped, basically as she stood up to go upstairs. 421 00:20:34,042 --> 00:20:36,876 When you lose a child your world is upside down. 422 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,167 I was thrown into a study of medicine, 423 00:20:40,542 --> 00:20:44,709 of medical jargon, of how the health care system works 424 00:20:44,959 --> 00:20:46,626 and when it doesn't work. 425 00:20:47,042 --> 00:20:50,668 And I didn't ask for it, but it was my way of dealing 426 00:20:50,709 --> 00:20:52,376 with the loss of Vanessa. 427 00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:55,502 So it was, in a sense, my way of grieving. 428 00:20:55,834 --> 00:20:56,917 And, um... 429 00:20:57,167 --> 00:20:59,918 It started the day she died. 430 00:21:00,167 --> 00:21:02,626 - For five years, Young investigated the 431 00:21:02,751 --> 00:21:05,043 practices of the medical and drug industries. 432 00:21:05,167 --> 00:21:09,167 And in doing so, he says, he realized how Pharma's influence 433 00:21:09,292 --> 00:21:12,542 had permeated every construct of modern society. 434 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,334 They find a way to create a financial interest 435 00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:18,758 in every institution in our society 436 00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:20,752 that we rely on for critical thought. 437 00:21:20,876 --> 00:21:23,752 They have money in our universities, in our colleges, 438 00:21:23,792 --> 00:21:26,334 in our hospital boards, in the media, 439 00:21:26,459 --> 00:21:28,251 and they almost always win. 440 00:21:28,448 --> 00:21:29,906 - The loss of his daughter, 441 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,250 coupled with the shocking truths he uncovered 442 00:21:32,375 --> 00:21:34,084 through his medical research, 443 00:21:34,167 --> 00:21:36,766 led him to write Death By Prescription 444 00:21:36,876 --> 00:21:39,126 and become one of Canada's most ardent 445 00:21:39,209 --> 00:21:41,376 proponents of informed choice. 446 00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:45,794 - GlaxoSmithKline just paid the largest fine 447 00:21:46,042 --> 00:21:47,751 in the history of the United States 448 00:21:47,802 --> 00:21:50,678 related to fraud and criminal acts for a drug company. 449 00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:54,376 They paid 3 billion dollars for illegal marketing 450 00:21:54,459 --> 00:21:58,001 of Paxil, Wellbutrin, and Avandia, 451 00:21:58,167 --> 00:22:01,417 Paxil and Avandia both having been drugs that caused 452 00:22:01,501 --> 00:22:04,210 a lot of deaths due to adverse drug reactions. 453 00:22:04,375 --> 00:22:06,667 And they paid it in cash. 454 00:22:07,417 --> 00:22:11,335 This action constitutes the largest healthcare settlement 455 00:22:11,459 --> 00:22:13,126 in United States history. 456 00:22:13,209 --> 00:22:15,085 It was in their business plan. 457 00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:16,709 Because those three drugs, 458 00:22:16,792 --> 00:22:19,959 in the years involved sold 25 billion dollars worth. 459 00:22:20,083 --> 00:22:22,875 And the drugs are marked up in the thousands of percent. 460 00:22:23,042 --> 00:22:27,042 GSK distributed Paxil with false and misleading labelling. 461 00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:31,709 What GSK did was encourage the use of Paxil for children 462 00:22:31,792 --> 00:22:33,710 who are dealing with depression, 463 00:22:33,918 --> 00:22:37,544 with false messages about safety and effectiveness. 464 00:22:38,042 --> 00:22:40,376 This unlawful promotion put children at risk 465 00:22:40,501 --> 00:22:42,876 of taking drugs that were unproven 466 00:22:42,959 --> 00:22:44,626 to be effective for them, 467 00:22:44,751 --> 00:22:47,855 and have been shown to increase the risk of suicide. 468 00:22:47,959 --> 00:22:51,209 - These fraudulent practices were locked away for decades, 469 00:22:51,334 --> 00:22:53,918 protected by institutions and doctors 470 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,042 and the drug companies themselves. 471 00:22:56,083 --> 00:22:57,959 Psychiatric and scientific ethics 472 00:22:58,042 --> 00:23:00,751 were cast aside in exchange for profits. 473 00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:04,668 No one went to jail and real people paid the price. 474 00:23:06,083 --> 00:23:12,001 [singing Oh Danny Boy] 475 00:23:17,209 --> 00:23:19,751 Brennan wore his heart on his sleeve. 476 00:23:20,042 --> 00:23:23,292 He just adored social situations. 477 00:23:23,375 --> 00:23:26,126 He loved to sing from a very young age, 478 00:23:26,209 --> 00:23:30,751 music was part of our life and part of what he adored. 479 00:23:30,918 --> 00:23:33,794 To the point where one of the nicest memories we have, 480 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:37,043 was he was at Peggy's Cove with his aunt Meryl 481 00:23:37,125 --> 00:23:39,250 and decided at the gift shop 482 00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:41,626 that he would sing Danny Boy 483 00:23:41,834 --> 00:23:44,876 to all the senior citizens on the bus tour there 484 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,626 and just broke out into song 485 00:23:46,751 --> 00:23:49,669 and had his own little audience at Peggy's Cove. 486 00:23:50,167 --> 00:23:52,834 [singing Oh Danny Boy] 487 00:23:55,584 --> 00:23:59,751 Yeah, what I miss most about Brennan is, he came in, 488 00:23:59,876 --> 00:24:01,460 he'd always give me a hug. 489 00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:03,126 Hey dad, how're you doing? 490 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:05,292 Give me a hug. I still think to this day 491 00:24:05,334 --> 00:24:07,210 he's going to walk through the door. 492 00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:09,292 We were driving, not too long ago, 493 00:24:09,292 --> 00:24:11,918 Nancy, myself and our other son Hayden, 494 00:24:12,042 --> 00:24:14,793 and I looked in the back seat and Hayden was sleeping, 495 00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:17,210 and I looked to see if Brennan was there. 496 00:24:17,334 --> 00:24:20,001 Just out of habit, to see if he was sleeping too. 497 00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:24,126 I saw Brennan walk out of this house, he was very robotic. 498 00:24:24,417 --> 00:24:26,043 Brennan, where you going? 499 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:28,029 It's okay mum, I just got to go. 500 00:24:28,125 --> 00:24:29,500 Puts on his winter coat. 501 00:24:29,542 --> 00:24:31,126 Brennan, it's hot out today. 502 00:24:31,209 --> 00:24:33,043 It's okay mum, I just got to go. 503 00:24:33,125 --> 00:24:34,375 Puts on his winter hat. 504 00:24:34,501 --> 00:24:37,252 I said, Brennan, It's hot out today you won't need that. 505 00:24:37,334 --> 00:24:39,210 It's okay mum, I just got to go. 506 00:24:39,292 --> 00:24:41,834 And I said, well, I need you here for a minute. 507 00:24:41,918 --> 00:24:43,918 No, it's okay mum, I just got to go. 508 00:24:43,959 --> 00:24:45,710 And that's all he could say to me, 509 00:24:45,834 --> 00:24:49,043 and this was a child who was very articulate, 510 00:24:49,501 --> 00:24:53,127 who was so verbose that sometimes you would just say 511 00:24:53,459 --> 00:24:56,001 okay, okay, enough, enough already. 512 00:24:56,292 --> 00:24:58,168 - Four days prior, Brennan went to 513 00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:00,250 the family doctor with a chest cold 514 00:25:00,375 --> 00:25:03,209 and inexplicably came home with a sample pack 515 00:25:03,292 --> 00:25:05,375 of the antidepressant Cipralex. 516 00:25:05,626 --> 00:25:07,544 At the time of his disappearance, 517 00:25:07,709 --> 00:25:11,043 he was exhibiting the classic signs of Akathisia. 518 00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:14,500 When Brennan went missing I drove the roads 519 00:25:14,542 --> 00:25:17,834 for hours just north of here. 520 00:25:17,959 --> 00:25:21,543 And I did every side road, every conservation area, 521 00:25:21,584 --> 00:25:23,709 every lane way looking for him. 522 00:25:23,745 --> 00:25:25,662 One of the things that he didn't have 523 00:25:25,792 --> 00:25:27,376 was a great sense of direction. 524 00:25:27,417 --> 00:25:29,918 I thought maybe he had gone for a hike in the bush 525 00:25:29,959 --> 00:25:32,710 and got turned around and couldn't find his way out, 526 00:25:32,766 --> 00:25:34,224 and I went looking for him. 527 00:25:34,292 --> 00:25:36,735 that's what was going through my mind the whole time. 528 00:25:36,834 --> 00:25:39,168 I let him go out the door 529 00:25:41,042 --> 00:25:43,709 and that was the last time I saw him alive. 530 00:25:46,417 --> 00:25:49,209 And he bought his rope from a local store 531 00:25:50,626 --> 00:25:52,793 and drove to a conservation area, 532 00:25:54,792 --> 00:25:56,293 texted us, 533 00:25:57,125 --> 00:25:58,876 and then hanged himself. 534 00:25:59,709 --> 00:26:02,043 - Before long, other teens across 535 00:26:02,167 --> 00:26:04,709 the Canadian province of Ontario were dying, 536 00:26:04,751 --> 00:26:06,297 just like Brennan did. 537 00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:09,876 For Terence Young, the problem hit close to home again, 538 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,083 when friends and constituents faced the same horror 539 00:26:13,209 --> 00:26:15,043 he and the McCartneys had. 540 00:26:15,417 --> 00:26:17,459 My wife called my son Hart to the phone 541 00:26:17,501 --> 00:26:19,168 and we heard him say a few words 542 00:26:19,250 --> 00:26:22,196 and he banged the phone down and ran upstairs, 543 00:26:22,335 --> 00:26:23,544 obviously quite upset. 544 00:26:23,658 --> 00:26:25,534 We went and said, What happened? 545 00:26:25,555 --> 00:26:27,459 he said, Sara Carlin hanged herself. 546 00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:29,675 And we had met Sara, who was 18 years old, 547 00:26:29,751 --> 00:26:31,751 just a few weeks before on our back deck, 548 00:26:31,792 --> 00:26:34,376 they were part of the same social group in Oakville. 549 00:26:34,459 --> 00:26:36,126 They'd play guitar and sing songs 550 00:26:36,167 --> 00:26:37,584 and do karaoke or whatever. 551 00:26:38,542 --> 00:26:40,792 [piano and singing] 552 00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:52,877 Because of my own research the first thing I thought about 553 00:26:52,959 --> 00:26:55,626 when an otherwise healthy young person dies is, 554 00:26:55,751 --> 00:26:58,126 Was a prescription drug involved? 555 00:26:58,292 --> 00:26:59,751 And of course it was. 556 00:26:59,834 --> 00:27:02,501 In fact, there is no doubt in my mind that Paxil 557 00:27:02,584 --> 00:27:04,959 and withdrawing from Paxil was the cause 558 00:27:05,042 --> 00:27:07,834 of Sara Carlin's demise, her suicide. 559 00:27:08,459 --> 00:27:11,960 She started on this drug somewhere around January. 560 00:27:12,375 --> 00:27:16,042 And these things make you unafraid. 561 00:27:16,125 --> 00:27:20,584 They make you do things you wouldn't do normally. 562 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,709 They make you... 563 00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:27,793 able to put a rope around your neck and hang yourself. 564 00:27:28,751 --> 00:27:30,960 A young woman hanging herself is 565 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,667 an extremely rare thing to happen. 566 00:27:34,083 --> 00:27:37,417 She went home one Saturday night at two o'clock in the morning, 567 00:27:37,501 --> 00:27:41,002 took off her make-up and hanged herself in her parents basement. 568 00:27:41,501 --> 00:27:44,043 I reached out to Terence at one point because 569 00:27:44,125 --> 00:27:46,792 I was in contact with the Coroner's office. 570 00:27:46,918 --> 00:27:49,168 I was starting to put the pieces together. 571 00:27:49,292 --> 00:27:52,001 It wasn't until after Sara's death that 572 00:27:52,083 --> 00:27:54,458 we actually started to connect the dots. 573 00:27:54,584 --> 00:27:56,126 We're bereaved fathers, 574 00:27:56,250 --> 00:27:58,876 we have a great connection and with Terence's help, 575 00:27:58,959 --> 00:28:00,126 we got the inquest. 576 00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:02,209 The doctors wouldn't talk to us after. 577 00:28:02,292 --> 00:28:04,375 We fought hard for an inquest because 578 00:28:04,417 --> 00:28:07,667 we needed to understand, and after Sara had died, 579 00:28:07,709 --> 00:28:10,126 then we started doing research on the drug. 580 00:28:10,167 --> 00:28:12,542 that's when we really found out about the drug. 581 00:28:12,709 --> 00:28:16,251 that's the first time that we realized that Paxil, 582 00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:20,584 one of the side effects was suicidal thinking. 583 00:28:20,876 --> 00:28:23,668 Everyone told us it's not going to happen, 584 00:28:23,918 --> 00:28:26,627 you'll never get an inquest on a prescription drug. 585 00:28:26,876 --> 00:28:29,585 So it goes to show you what a couple of Dads can do. 586 00:28:29,792 --> 00:28:31,459 I worked with Sara's dad, Neil. 587 00:28:31,501 --> 00:28:33,501 We pushed very hard to get an inquest. 588 00:28:33,584 --> 00:28:36,126 Um, I asked as Chair of Drug Safety Canada 589 00:28:36,250 --> 00:28:39,168 to be party to that inquest and I was turned down. 590 00:28:39,709 --> 00:28:42,918 But the coroner did allow me to be an expert witness 591 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000 on drug communications, which I did. 592 00:28:46,542 --> 00:28:49,209 There's a videotape of the coroner's counsel 593 00:28:49,292 --> 00:28:52,180 saying on the very first day of the inquest, 594 00:28:52,304 --> 00:28:54,471 We will show that Paxil did not 595 00:28:54,542 --> 00:28:56,501 "play a part in Sara Carlin's death. 596 00:28:56,667 --> 00:28:59,667 Well, the whole point of the inquest was to see 597 00:28:59,709 --> 00:29:02,751 whether or not antidepressants played a part in Sara's death! 598 00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:06,126 The courts acknowledge that this medication 599 00:29:06,292 --> 00:29:10,751 can increase thoughts of suicide in particular patients, 600 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,918 but they don't think the medication 601 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,083 played a role in Sara Carlin's death. 602 00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:18,032 - The Coroner in Ontario resisted every request 603 00:29:18,125 --> 00:29:19,834 by the Carlin's to get the truth 604 00:29:19,892 --> 00:29:21,643 about the death of their daughter. 605 00:29:21,667 --> 00:29:24,834 But the Carlin's were willing to risk everything to get it. 606 00:29:24,959 --> 00:29:27,805 We basically mortgaged our home to the hilt 607 00:29:27,863 --> 00:29:29,780 to try and get some answers, 608 00:29:29,834 --> 00:29:34,243 but to me, it was worth it to have that doctor up on the stand 609 00:29:34,334 --> 00:29:35,918 and the lawyer asked him, 610 00:29:36,042 --> 00:29:39,501 Did you tell Sara that Paxil might 611 00:29:39,584 --> 00:29:42,085 cause her to want to kill herself? 612 00:29:43,709 --> 00:29:45,627 And he said, No, I didn't. 613 00:29:46,709 --> 00:29:48,918 Why didn't you tell her that? 614 00:29:49,042 --> 00:29:52,376 Well because, he said, she wouldn't have taken it. 615 00:29:53,626 --> 00:29:55,668 Did you tell her parents? "No." 616 00:29:56,083 --> 00:29:58,250 "Did you tell anybody? No. 617 00:29:58,501 --> 00:30:01,293 Coroners see the suicides; 618 00:30:02,667 --> 00:30:04,376 investigate the suicides. 619 00:30:04,501 --> 00:30:06,501 Coroners don't want to do anything. 620 00:30:06,577 --> 00:30:08,453 Coroners are medical doctors. 621 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,626 The coroners are the first line of defence for the industry. 622 00:30:13,042 --> 00:30:14,501 - And at the inquest, 623 00:30:14,667 --> 00:30:17,209 the odds were stacked against the Carlins. 624 00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:19,667 - The jury, I think, was very courageous. 625 00:30:19,792 --> 00:30:23,334 But they were specifically instructed by the coroner 626 00:30:23,667 --> 00:30:28,626 that they couldn't actually find Paxil as a cause. 627 00:30:29,297 --> 00:30:32,089 - The jury made 12 key recommendations, 628 00:30:32,172 --> 00:30:33,964 these were detailed recommendations 629 00:30:34,044 --> 00:30:35,419 to prevent similar deaths, 630 00:30:35,459 --> 00:30:37,793 six of them were aimed at the drug industry 631 00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:39,126 and the drug company. 632 00:30:39,209 --> 00:30:42,127 So if they didn't think that Paxil caused or played 633 00:30:42,209 --> 00:30:44,292 a critical role in Sara Carlin's death, 634 00:30:44,417 --> 00:30:47,126 they certainly wouldn't have put six recommendations 635 00:30:47,209 --> 00:30:50,043 aimed at the pharmaceutical industry in their decision. 636 00:30:50,417 --> 00:30:52,500 It took me a year to get the strength 637 00:30:52,584 --> 00:30:54,876 to write to the Chief Coroner. 638 00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:57,625 I said, you know, It came to my attention that 639 00:30:57,751 --> 00:31:01,793 "you, in fact, had the cause of death changed. 640 00:31:01,834 --> 00:31:04,959 I said, how can the coroner's office 641 00:31:05,042 --> 00:31:07,459 "have such a lack of transparency? 642 00:31:07,501 --> 00:31:10,002 I received a letter back basically telling me 643 00:31:10,125 --> 00:31:12,876 that it was criminal offence to meddle with the jury. 644 00:31:12,959 --> 00:31:15,710 And if I didn't stop meddling 645 00:31:15,751 --> 00:31:18,168 I would be charged and put in jail. 646 00:31:18,626 --> 00:31:20,335 I believe where we are right now, 647 00:31:20,417 --> 00:31:22,500 those of us who understand the true risks 648 00:31:22,542 --> 00:31:25,001 and have been trying to warn others and make change, 649 00:31:25,083 --> 00:31:26,797 we're at the bleeding edge. 650 00:31:26,834 --> 00:31:28,501 Not the leading edge, because the 651 00:31:28,584 --> 00:31:30,335 leading edge hasn't even started yet. 652 00:31:30,417 --> 00:31:31,834 We're at the bleeding edge, 653 00:31:31,876 --> 00:31:34,085 we're the ones they think we sort of lost it. 654 00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:35,709 I know drug reps have been telling 655 00:31:35,792 --> 00:31:37,251 people in Ontario for years, 656 00:31:37,292 --> 00:31:39,043 oh this poor guy lost his daughter, 657 00:31:39,083 --> 00:31:41,292 "he's lost his mind, he's exaggerating stuff. 658 00:31:41,375 --> 00:31:43,584 Then there's others that realize I'm not exaggerating. 659 00:31:43,626 --> 00:31:46,668 In fact, the evidence backs it up. My book has 200 footnotes. 660 00:31:46,709 --> 00:31:48,335 It's totally evidence based. 661 00:31:48,375 --> 00:31:49,792 I've never been challenged. 662 00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:51,835 I've never been threatened with a lawsuit. 663 00:31:51,918 --> 00:31:53,836 The hurdle is trying to get people to 664 00:31:53,959 --> 00:31:55,918 believe something that's so unbelievable. 665 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,959 - Our mission, per Se, is to be vocal about this, 666 00:32:01,584 --> 00:32:06,001 because if It saves one life, then it's all worth it. 667 00:32:06,876 --> 00:32:10,959 As much as it, um, every time we talk about it, 668 00:32:11,083 --> 00:32:13,292 it re-traumatizes us, 669 00:32:14,834 --> 00:32:17,293 makes us relive the experience. 670 00:32:19,292 --> 00:32:22,292 But it is what Brennan would have wanted us to do. 671 00:32:25,417 --> 00:32:30,335 [music - Danny Boy] 672 00:32:46,501 --> 00:32:48,335 - Were you 240lbs of fury? 673 00:32:48,542 --> 00:32:49,792 Oh Goodness, yes. 674 00:32:50,167 --> 00:32:52,584 And I was not easy to deal with. 675 00:32:53,209 --> 00:32:56,876 My son Joseph at that time was 15 years of age. 676 00:32:57,209 --> 00:32:58,835 Extremely ill. 677 00:32:59,083 --> 00:33:00,959 - Like, it didn't matter what it was. 678 00:33:01,042 --> 00:33:02,417 - Very very violent. 679 00:33:02,501 --> 00:33:04,626 - The drop of a pin would set me off. 680 00:33:04,709 --> 00:33:06,679 - You could actually say he would be 681 00:33:06,751 --> 00:33:09,210 everything a school yard shooting is made out of. 682 00:33:09,292 --> 00:33:10,334 [phone rings] 683 00:33:10,417 --> 00:33:12,251 911, where's your emergency? 684 00:33:12,334 --> 00:33:17,085 He was diagnosed with bipolar effective disorder one. 685 00:33:21,626 --> 00:33:24,793 In the years after Debbie Stephan drove the family's 686 00:33:24,918 --> 00:33:29,085 1990 Bronco into a raging river with her children inside, 687 00:33:29,209 --> 00:33:31,793 the mental states of both Autumn Stringham 688 00:33:31,876 --> 00:33:34,752 and her brother Joseph Stephan deteriorated. 689 00:33:34,918 --> 00:33:37,794 - They didn't understand what their Mother was going through, 690 00:33:37,959 --> 00:33:40,001 that would take her to that point 691 00:33:40,083 --> 00:33:44,083 that she would be prepared to remove herself from this life, 692 00:33:44,167 --> 00:33:46,167 and all of the children with her. 693 00:33:46,417 --> 00:33:49,667 - Whether the cause was genetics or sheer trauma, 694 00:33:49,751 --> 00:33:52,585 they both were diagnosed with bipolar disorder, 695 00:33:52,667 --> 00:33:54,001 just like their mum. 696 00:33:54,292 --> 00:33:55,709 I was very very down. 697 00:33:56,375 --> 00:34:00,667 You begin to lose hope because there's no joy in life at all. 698 00:34:01,209 --> 00:34:03,459 There's no happiness to be found. 699 00:34:03,959 --> 00:34:06,585 And that was the state of our family. 700 00:34:07,542 --> 00:34:10,625 - Joseph, in particular, seemed headed for disaster. 701 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,918 He was just a sweetheart, but, boy, 702 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,042 when he hit puberty, he really went over, 703 00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:21,500 and became incredibly manic and incredibly violent in his mania. 704 00:34:21,542 --> 00:34:22,709 He was scary. 705 00:34:22,876 --> 00:34:24,251 My dad was scared. 706 00:34:24,834 --> 00:34:27,668 Joseph was medicated with lithium. 707 00:34:28,042 --> 00:34:31,918 I believe he was taking 750 milligrams of lithium 708 00:34:32,042 --> 00:34:34,918 and he was up to 900 milligrams of lithium 709 00:34:35,542 --> 00:34:38,209 for a period of time to try and control it. 710 00:34:38,417 --> 00:34:40,584 Was I having huge mood swings? 711 00:34:40,834 --> 00:34:43,501 Yeah, that stuff definitely started, I mean, 712 00:34:43,626 --> 00:34:46,626 I'd been through a lot of pain with the death of my mother 713 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:49,959 and various events that happened in my life. 714 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,751 After my mother had committed suicide, 715 00:34:52,834 --> 00:34:53,959 uh, 716 00:34:54,042 --> 00:34:59,084 I was the most violent person that I knew of. 717 00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:01,959 I used to wander the streets at night 718 00:35:02,042 --> 00:35:04,960 and I'd go pick fights with the local people 719 00:35:05,125 --> 00:35:08,125 and I had this aluminium bat I'd found 720 00:35:08,209 --> 00:35:11,127 and I beat it against the curb 721 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,876 so it was just jagged and torn up, 722 00:35:13,959 --> 00:35:16,959 and, you know, that was my weapon of choice. 723 00:35:17,334 --> 00:35:22,584 And, I mean, I'm lucky I never touched anybody with that thing, 724 00:35:23,751 --> 00:35:25,876 but that's where it was headed. 725 00:35:25,959 --> 00:35:28,251 I mean, it wouldn't have been very long 726 00:35:28,375 --> 00:35:30,750 before something actually happened. 727 00:35:32,584 --> 00:35:34,626 - My children were already saying to me, 728 00:35:34,751 --> 00:35:35,918 Come on dad. 729 00:35:35,918 --> 00:35:37,960 "You've got to get him out of the house. 730 00:35:38,042 --> 00:35:39,543 "he's going to kill somebody. 731 00:35:39,584 --> 00:35:41,210 "You've got to do something, Dad. 732 00:35:41,292 --> 00:35:43,626 It didn't matter what we threw at this situation, 733 00:35:43,709 --> 00:35:45,293 it wasn't going to get better 734 00:35:45,334 --> 00:35:47,293 and I'm going to lose him to a suicide, 735 00:35:47,375 --> 00:35:49,834 or he's going to have to be institutionalized. 736 00:35:49,918 --> 00:35:54,252 - A thousand miles away, Autumn was also struggling desperately. 737 00:35:54,459 --> 00:35:56,918 Now married with a child, she, too, 738 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,459 was caught in the grip of her mother's madness. 739 00:35:59,542 --> 00:36:01,584 - At that point in my life, 740 00:36:01,667 --> 00:36:04,251 I just felt like everything was ashes. 741 00:36:04,375 --> 00:36:06,667 You know, I'd just lost my mum to suicide. 742 00:36:06,709 --> 00:36:09,210 My diagnosis had been upgraded, so now I was 743 00:36:09,292 --> 00:36:12,210 rapid-cycling bipolar one with schizophrenic tendencies, 744 00:36:12,334 --> 00:36:14,252 which was, it seemed really dark, 745 00:36:14,334 --> 00:36:16,417 like I wasn't going to get over that. 746 00:36:16,584 --> 00:36:20,918 And so I had actually planned to commit suicide. 747 00:36:21,209 --> 00:36:24,292 With one child ingesting a five-drug cocktail 748 00:36:24,334 --> 00:36:25,960 and contemplating suicide 749 00:36:26,042 --> 00:36:28,751 and the other engulfed by violent thoughts, 750 00:36:28,834 --> 00:36:31,460 Tony Stephan's family was under siege. 751 00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:34,792 My daughter at the same time had 752 00:36:34,959 --> 00:36:36,959 been in and out of the psych ward, 753 00:36:37,125 --> 00:36:41,292 struggling with the same issues as her mother and her brother 754 00:36:41,417 --> 00:36:44,001 and was on five different medications. 755 00:36:44,125 --> 00:36:46,751 She had been through major medication changes. 756 00:36:46,834 --> 00:36:48,084 It wasn't working. 757 00:36:48,709 --> 00:36:51,585 At the very, very best, it wasn't working. 758 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,667 So, I was left in a terrible state, 759 00:36:54,792 --> 00:36:57,209 a terrible state where I had to find an answer, 760 00:36:57,292 --> 00:37:00,043 because you see, my family was literally 761 00:37:00,125 --> 00:37:02,375 coming unglued before my eyes. 762 00:37:02,626 --> 00:37:04,709 I was going to lose my family. 763 00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:07,043 - Beset by grief and confused by 764 00:37:07,125 --> 00:37:09,084 the cruelty of his circumstances, 765 00:37:09,292 --> 00:37:13,417 he began to look for answers; some way out of this madness. 766 00:37:13,626 --> 00:37:15,876 - Sheer and utter desperation. 767 00:37:16,167 --> 00:37:19,751 It was a journey that would reshape his life forever. 768 00:37:19,918 --> 00:37:23,252 - he started studying everything that he could about bipolar 769 00:37:23,292 --> 00:37:25,667 and recognizing a lot of the patterns 770 00:37:25,751 --> 00:37:27,335 that he'd seen with my mum 771 00:37:27,375 --> 00:37:30,293 in all the years that they've been married, and 772 00:37:30,667 --> 00:37:32,917 I think it really helped him to 773 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,918 see that the needed to do something about it. 774 00:37:36,083 --> 00:37:37,834 - Do something, but what? 775 00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:40,292 The experts had all weighed in: 776 00:37:40,334 --> 00:37:42,168 both his children were spiralling 777 00:37:42,209 --> 00:37:43,960 into the same orbit as their mum 778 00:37:44,083 --> 00:37:46,709 and there seemed little hope he could save them. 779 00:37:46,792 --> 00:37:49,084 But Stephan resolved to find an answer 780 00:37:49,167 --> 00:37:52,376 and prevent any further suicides in his family. 781 00:37:58,250 --> 00:38:00,417 I was at the bottom of a pit and I 782 00:38:00,709 --> 00:38:03,001 had many different psychiatrists, 783 00:38:03,167 --> 00:38:07,459 many different hospitals, many facilities that I had to go to. 784 00:38:07,709 --> 00:38:09,876 And they just kept handing me pills. 785 00:38:09,959 --> 00:38:13,001 I wouldn't call it angst, I would just clearly call it hell. 786 00:38:13,083 --> 00:38:15,417 You know, how could such a beautiful thing 787 00:38:15,459 --> 00:38:18,584 of life, giving birth, cause such trauma? 788 00:38:19,167 --> 00:38:22,709 I just remember being very unhappy, very sad and hopeless. 789 00:38:22,834 --> 00:38:25,001 I never thought it would end and 790 00:38:25,083 --> 00:38:27,417 just saw no way to get out of it. 791 00:38:27,918 --> 00:38:30,752 The drugs made me completely emotionless; 792 00:38:30,834 --> 00:38:32,335 they made me not care; 793 00:38:32,792 --> 00:38:35,792 I didn't care about anything around me. 794 00:38:36,167 --> 00:38:38,793 The only thing I saw was my pain 795 00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:42,250 and the drugs made me numb to anything else. 796 00:38:42,626 --> 00:38:44,918 - I was diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome. 797 00:38:44,959 --> 00:38:47,460 So in order to treat the Tourette Syndrome, 798 00:38:47,501 --> 00:38:49,460 I was put on medications. 799 00:38:49,792 --> 00:38:52,792 When I was little, I would just have these really violent 800 00:38:52,876 --> 00:38:57,335 mood swings and panic attacks, insomnia, hypersomnia; 801 00:38:57,375 --> 00:38:59,542 there were periods where I couldn't eat, 802 00:38:59,626 --> 00:39:01,960 there were periods I would eat too much. 803 00:39:02,209 --> 00:39:04,376 So, all of these really confusing things 804 00:39:04,417 --> 00:39:05,459 were happening to me 805 00:39:05,501 --> 00:39:07,252 and I, at that time, didn't realize 806 00:39:07,292 --> 00:39:09,084 that it was because of the medication 807 00:39:09,167 --> 00:39:11,751 that I was going through all these horrible changes. 808 00:39:11,876 --> 00:39:14,418 I will probably never get over 809 00:39:14,542 --> 00:39:18,959 the horrible guilt and the horrible - 810 00:39:19,042 --> 00:39:22,292 I think that part of her childhood was stolen from her. 811 00:39:22,667 --> 00:39:26,042 They began to basically 812 00:39:27,918 --> 00:39:30,460 just force me to take the medication 813 00:39:30,542 --> 00:39:33,584 which made me feel as though I had been betrayed 814 00:39:33,626 --> 00:39:36,335 by absolutely everybody, because I felt as though 815 00:39:36,459 --> 00:39:38,918 they were giving me these toxic things that 816 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,083 were making me sick and violent and horrible. 817 00:39:43,667 --> 00:39:46,792 I didn't know by her not wanting to take the medicine 818 00:39:46,876 --> 00:39:48,918 that she was really trying to say to me, 819 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,792 You know what? This isn't working. 820 00:39:50,918 --> 00:39:53,210 But what eight year old can verbalize that? 821 00:39:53,417 --> 00:39:55,918 And the psychiatrist kept saying to me, 822 00:39:55,959 --> 00:39:58,376 she needs this. She has to have this, 823 00:39:58,501 --> 00:40:02,626 and the psychiatrist was our family friend and I trusted him. 824 00:40:03,334 --> 00:40:07,126 They completely put their faith in this particular psychiatrist 825 00:40:07,667 --> 00:40:12,959 who I don't think had my best interests in mind at all. 826 00:40:13,292 --> 00:40:16,626 My doctor decided that electric shock therapy would be good 827 00:40:16,724 --> 00:40:18,308 because I was drug-resistant. 828 00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:22,001 So I mean, we had tried for almost a year. 829 00:40:22,209 --> 00:40:24,376 He just kept saying, let's try more drugs. 830 00:40:24,501 --> 00:40:27,210 We'll give you this. We'll do this. More shock therapy. 831 00:40:27,292 --> 00:40:29,793 Well, really? Like, how much more can my body take? 832 00:40:29,876 --> 00:40:33,502 I was 100 pounds and dying. I literally was dying. 833 00:40:34,125 --> 00:40:36,125 My psychiatrist decided that 834 00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:39,126 electric shock would be the next step, 835 00:40:39,209 --> 00:40:43,001 so I did a series of eight, 836 00:40:43,375 --> 00:40:45,126 so eight sessions of that. 837 00:40:45,542 --> 00:40:47,584 The ECT was a horrible experience. 838 00:40:47,709 --> 00:40:49,543 I loved going to school and learning, 839 00:40:49,667 --> 00:40:51,168 I had to drop out of school 840 00:40:51,250 --> 00:40:53,333 and really couldn't do the things in life 841 00:40:53,375 --> 00:40:55,251 that I'd always done and wanted to do. 842 00:40:55,501 --> 00:40:57,668 For about 16 years, 843 00:40:57,751 --> 00:41:02,168 I was hospitalized every year for up to three months. 844 00:41:02,292 --> 00:41:06,043 Finally in the last five years of my illness, 845 00:41:06,125 --> 00:41:07,792 I... I just said, "no more." 846 00:41:07,876 --> 00:41:10,460 "If you ever take me to the hospital again," I said, 847 00:41:10,501 --> 00:41:11,584 "I will kill myself. 848 00:41:11,709 --> 00:41:13,876 When my mum would call him, sort of frantic, 849 00:41:13,959 --> 00:41:15,959 like, Melissa's having a reaction, 850 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,000 or Melissa's having an episode of violence, 851 00:41:19,042 --> 00:41:20,876 or Melissa's hurting herself, 852 00:41:20,959 --> 00:41:24,376 he would say, make her take the medication! 853 00:41:24,542 --> 00:41:27,542 The psychiatrist said, "If she doesn't listen, 854 00:41:27,584 --> 00:41:29,751 and she doesn't want to take the medication, 855 00:41:29,876 --> 00:41:31,543 you just call 911 856 00:41:31,584 --> 00:41:33,793 and go over and visit the psych hospital 857 00:41:33,834 --> 00:41:35,710 because that's where she'll go." 858 00:41:35,876 --> 00:41:39,085 Gosh, I've got a list of like 20 different medications 859 00:41:39,167 --> 00:41:41,334 I was on by the time I was about 11. 860 00:41:41,459 --> 00:41:44,709 Um, we just had bags and bags full of pills and pills, 861 00:41:45,959 --> 00:41:48,877 in massive doses that I shouldn't have been, 862 00:41:48,959 --> 00:41:50,793 no child should have been prescribed. 863 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,542 It got to the point where they prescribed Haldol 864 00:41:53,667 --> 00:41:56,876 and that's when I really got more concerned than ever. 865 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,292 My mum and my sister basically found me 866 00:41:59,375 --> 00:42:01,667 in the game room sitting on the floor like, 867 00:42:01,751 --> 00:42:04,085 completely zoned-out. 868 00:42:04,209 --> 00:42:06,543 And I just remember this feeling of, 869 00:42:06,584 --> 00:42:09,335 "I'm going to die, I'm going to die, I'm going to die." 870 00:42:09,709 --> 00:42:12,251 [singing] And if she falls, 871 00:42:12,709 --> 00:42:17,709 There will be no one there to catch her 872 00:42:17,918 --> 00:42:26,127 When she falls, there will be no one there to catch her 873 00:42:26,751 --> 00:42:30,502 And hold on. 874 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,042 Melissa ended up in the emergency room. 875 00:42:34,167 --> 00:42:37,959 She had a very serious psychotic reaction. 876 00:42:38,334 --> 00:42:40,751 I was like, oh, this is it, I've completely... 877 00:42:40,792 --> 00:42:41,834 gone crazy. 878 00:42:41,959 --> 00:42:44,710 This is insane. I don't, I don't know who I am anymore. 879 00:42:44,792 --> 00:42:46,293 I don't know what I'm doing anymore. 880 00:42:46,334 --> 00:42:49,210 I called my paediatrician and he was there in ten minutes 881 00:42:49,334 --> 00:42:52,876 and he said to the nurse, "Get her off of that shit." 882 00:42:52,959 --> 00:42:54,293 that's what he said. 883 00:42:54,417 --> 00:42:56,084 - It was a very very low point, 884 00:42:56,209 --> 00:42:58,584 often the case that I would contemplate suicide 885 00:42:58,667 --> 00:43:01,585 just because I... 886 00:43:01,834 --> 00:43:03,376 didn't know who I was anymore 887 00:43:03,459 --> 00:43:05,668 and, um, all these side effects 888 00:43:05,751 --> 00:43:08,085 that I as experiencing were so scary. 889 00:43:08,417 --> 00:43:10,876 You don't give a 9-year kid Haldol. 890 00:43:18,584 --> 00:43:21,918 - As millions filled their psychotropic prescriptions, 891 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,167 most without anything resembling sound medical advice, 892 00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:28,042 other dark and troubling events kept occurring, 893 00:43:28,167 --> 00:43:30,085 without a whisper of warning. 894 00:43:30,125 --> 00:43:31,167 [phone ringing] 895 00:43:31,292 --> 00:43:32,959 911, what is your emergency? 896 00:43:33,083 --> 00:43:35,917 - ...been shot at West-side school... middle school. 897 00:43:36,042 --> 00:43:37,125 - Been what? 898 00:43:37,125 --> 00:43:39,043 - Been shot at West-side middle school. 899 00:43:39,125 --> 00:43:40,167 - OK. 900 00:43:40,209 --> 00:43:42,334 - We need an ambulance as soon as possible 901 00:43:42,375 --> 00:43:44,667 - OK. Do you know who's done the shooting? 902 00:43:45,876 --> 00:43:48,543 - Every time we get one of these horrible killings, 903 00:43:48,709 --> 00:43:52,126 mass murder, some will take advantage of that to say, 904 00:43:52,209 --> 00:43:54,376 look, we need more forced treatment. 905 00:43:54,417 --> 00:43:56,500 What we really need to investigate 906 00:43:56,626 --> 00:43:58,585 is what role are psychiatric drugs 907 00:43:58,667 --> 00:44:01,001 playing in such mass killings? 908 00:44:01,167 --> 00:44:03,043 Are people coming off drugs? 909 00:44:03,167 --> 00:44:06,501 Are they on the drugs and experiencing akathisia? 910 00:44:11,042 --> 00:44:13,960 And there's plenty of evidence in the research literature 911 00:44:14,125 --> 00:44:16,500 in the way that actually psychiatric drugs can 912 00:44:16,584 --> 00:44:18,418 lend themselves to violent actions. 913 00:44:18,501 --> 00:44:21,168 One, You can have this inner-agitation. 914 00:44:21,417 --> 00:44:24,293 Two, coming off, you can have a worsening of symptoms, 915 00:44:24,334 --> 00:44:26,168 and the third part is, these drugs 916 00:44:26,292 --> 00:44:28,709 can diminish frontal lobe activity, 917 00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:31,710 the very part of the brain that when you get a really 918 00:44:31,876 --> 00:44:34,794 bad idea like taking a gun and going into a school 919 00:44:34,876 --> 00:44:36,418 that's the part of your brain 920 00:44:36,501 --> 00:44:38,210 that's supposed to kick in and say, 921 00:44:38,334 --> 00:44:41,126 that's a really evil idea, don't do it. 922 00:44:41,375 --> 00:44:44,251 But these drugs will diminish that activity. 923 00:44:44,334 --> 00:44:47,293 Every time there is some bizarre act of violence 924 00:44:47,375 --> 00:44:49,126 in the United States or Canada, 925 00:44:49,167 --> 00:44:51,584 like a school shooting or mass shooting, 926 00:44:51,792 --> 00:44:56,418 it is so difficult to find any mention if the shooter 927 00:44:56,459 --> 00:44:59,584 was on anti-psychotics or antidepressant drugs. 928 00:44:59,876 --> 00:45:02,585 And yet in every case I've been able to find, 929 00:45:02,667 --> 00:45:04,876 the person who was shooting was either 930 00:45:04,959 --> 00:45:06,334 on an antidepressant drug 931 00:45:06,375 --> 00:45:09,126 or had recently withdrawn from an antidepressant drug. 932 00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:12,084 And so there is some kind of real correlation 933 00:45:12,250 --> 00:45:14,542 which no one is properly investigating. 934 00:45:20,667 --> 00:45:22,626 - As part of the research for his book 935 00:45:22,751 --> 00:45:24,460 called The Book of Woe, 936 00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:27,084 Gary Greenberg was embedded with psychiatrists 937 00:45:27,167 --> 00:45:29,292 as they debated the new edition of the 938 00:45:29,375 --> 00:45:32,584 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 939 00:45:32,584 --> 00:45:34,335 the DSM-5. 940 00:45:34,626 --> 00:45:37,709 All along, It's been clear that the DSM 941 00:45:37,834 --> 00:45:40,251 is essentially a work of fiction. 942 00:45:40,626 --> 00:45:45,668 It's the way psychiatrists have of saying that 943 00:45:45,709 --> 00:45:48,001 if there are mental disorders, 944 00:45:48,042 --> 00:45:49,960 if they exist in nature the way 945 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,417 that illnesses like Diabetes exist, 946 00:45:52,501 --> 00:45:54,419 then these are what they are. 947 00:45:54,834 --> 00:45:57,501 Changing the way we understand ourselves, 948 00:45:57,626 --> 00:46:00,585 is intimately related to the development 949 00:46:00,709 --> 00:46:03,751 of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. 950 00:46:03,959 --> 00:46:06,501 The DSM is often referred to as 951 00:46:06,542 --> 00:46:08,834 the Bible of psychiatric disorders. 952 00:46:08,959 --> 00:46:11,334 It is the quintessential diagnostic instrument. 953 00:46:11,459 --> 00:46:13,793 Over 400,000 mental health professionals 954 00:46:13,834 --> 00:46:15,876 in the United States use the DSM, 955 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,667 and in order to get 3rd party reimbursement, 956 00:46:19,792 --> 00:46:22,042 one has to have a DSM diagnosis. 957 00:46:22,209 --> 00:46:24,710 So the DSM is extremely instrumental. 958 00:46:25,167 --> 00:46:28,709 - In 2005, two respected academics, 959 00:46:28,792 --> 00:46:30,875 Lisa Cosgrove of UMass-Boston 960 00:46:31,042 --> 00:46:32,960 and Sheldon Krimsky of Tufts, 961 00:46:33,083 --> 00:46:36,250 released their investigation into conflicts-of-interest 962 00:46:36,375 --> 00:46:40,458 between DSM-4 panel members and the pharmaceutical industry. 963 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,792 - I think the data really speak for themselves. 964 00:46:43,834 --> 00:46:47,585 The strongest statistics include the panel members for 965 00:46:47,626 --> 00:46:49,335 the mood disorders and schizophrenia 966 00:46:49,375 --> 00:46:50,500 and psychotic disorders. 967 00:46:50,626 --> 00:46:52,918 A hundred percent of those panel members 968 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,334 and yes, that's right, every single panel member 969 00:46:55,375 --> 00:46:58,334 has financial associations with the pharmaceutical industry. 970 00:46:58,417 --> 00:47:02,084 And if you look at it in terms of the sheer amount of money, 971 00:47:02,125 --> 00:47:06,417 um, the antidepressant market and the anti-psychotic markets 972 00:47:06,501 --> 00:47:09,377 are the fourth and fifth leading therapy classes 973 00:47:09,501 --> 00:47:11,876 of drugs with annual sales 974 00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:14,543 of 20 billion and 14 billion respectively. 975 00:47:14,667 --> 00:47:17,834 You know, the argument is well we're getting the best people; 976 00:47:17,876 --> 00:47:20,876 the best people are consulting for the industry, 977 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,918 and therefore, the concept of 978 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,292 disinterestedness is completely destroyed. 979 00:47:25,334 --> 00:47:27,876 And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. 980 00:47:27,959 --> 00:47:31,918 If you set up the system so that you permit people 981 00:47:32,042 --> 00:47:36,001 with conflictual relationships to be on committees 982 00:47:37,209 --> 00:47:39,543 whose decisions will have 983 00:47:39,626 --> 00:47:42,709 financial impacts on an industry, 984 00:47:43,334 --> 00:47:45,709 then the whole thing is running on 985 00:47:45,792 --> 00:47:49,959 its own cycle of self-interest. 986 00:47:50,375 --> 00:47:53,251 So there are 170 DSM panel members. 987 00:47:53,292 --> 00:47:56,168 That is the total inclusive of all the working groups. 988 00:47:56,417 --> 00:47:59,001 Of those 170 panel members, 989 00:47:59,083 --> 00:48:03,166 56 percent had at least one financial association 990 00:48:03,209 --> 00:48:05,209 with a pharmaceutical company. 991 00:48:05,375 --> 00:48:08,500 - Embedded with the new DSM-5 working committee, 992 00:48:08,542 --> 00:48:10,625 Gary Greenberg found himself caught 993 00:48:10,667 --> 00:48:12,792 in a fire fight of words and passions 994 00:48:12,876 --> 00:48:15,001 over the future of psychiatry. 995 00:48:15,209 --> 00:48:18,876 When the DSM is revised, there are fights, 996 00:48:18,918 --> 00:48:20,836 and in this particular case there 997 00:48:20,876 --> 00:48:22,668 were some really intense fights, 998 00:48:22,709 --> 00:48:25,918 because there was an attempt on the part 999 00:48:25,959 --> 00:48:28,168 of the American Psychiatric Association 1000 00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:31,333 to finally come up with the DSM to end all DSMs. 1001 00:48:31,501 --> 00:48:35,210 Now you can't expect to revise a staple like the DSM 1002 00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:37,333 for the first time in 20 years 1003 00:48:37,417 --> 00:48:39,417 without experiencing some glitches, 1004 00:48:39,459 --> 00:48:41,626 and believe me, we had more than our share. 1005 00:48:41,667 --> 00:48:43,876 It was like being in the middle of a war. 1006 00:48:44,042 --> 00:48:46,001 But the APA kept its composure, 1007 00:48:46,083 --> 00:48:48,625 rallied when attacked by our enemies, 1008 00:48:48,918 --> 00:48:51,460 and occasionally by our friends, too, 1009 00:48:51,751 --> 00:48:54,876 to make the DSM a resounding success. 1010 00:48:55,459 --> 00:48:57,043 And uh, it didn't work. 1011 00:48:57,501 --> 00:49:01,168 They failed and they found it very difficult to 1012 00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:05,250 walk back from the promises that they'd made. 1013 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,375 And the people that took them on weren't the scientologists, 1014 00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:12,126 they were psychiatrists. 1015 00:49:12,250 --> 00:49:15,625 One of them, in fact, had written the last DSM. 1016 00:49:16,375 --> 00:49:20,001 - This political infighting left millions of consumers 1017 00:49:20,083 --> 00:49:22,750 with psychiatric diagnoses in limbo. 1018 00:49:23,083 --> 00:49:26,500 The DSM decision-makers may not have considered that 1019 00:49:26,584 --> 00:49:30,709 but their actions over the last 30 years have reverberated 1020 00:49:30,834 --> 00:49:33,168 in sad and profound ways. 1021 00:49:33,375 --> 00:49:35,709 - Pretend that I'm the Glaxo CEO. 1022 00:49:35,751 --> 00:49:38,001 What would you like to say to me? 1023 00:49:44,626 --> 00:49:46,168 [chuckles] 1024 00:49:46,459 --> 00:49:47,459 Yeah... 1025 00:49:49,667 --> 00:49:52,418 - For David Carmichael, there are good reasons 1026 00:49:52,501 --> 00:49:54,876 why this is is not an easy question to answer. 1027 00:49:55,209 --> 00:49:57,543 - My Dad and I have always been really close. 1028 00:49:57,626 --> 00:50:00,043 Um, you know, both my parents did everything 1029 00:50:00,125 --> 00:50:01,417 for my brother and I. 1030 00:50:01,459 --> 00:50:04,210 If there was, you know, a sport we wanted to pick up, 1031 00:50:04,292 --> 00:50:07,251 or if there was something we wanted to do, we did everything. 1032 00:50:07,292 --> 00:50:10,417 My dad built my brother a half pipe in our backyard 1033 00:50:10,459 --> 00:50:13,043 and it was like a professionally built half pipe. 1034 00:50:13,167 --> 00:50:14,876 Like, this thing was phenomenal. 1035 00:50:14,959 --> 00:50:17,334 And we had kids from all over the neighbourhood 1036 00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:19,458 come there to ride it because it was huge. 1037 00:50:19,542 --> 00:50:22,209 There's nothing more exhilarating than being a dad. 1038 00:50:22,292 --> 00:50:25,168 In everything I've ever done, it was magical moments. 1039 00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:27,459 Our daughter, Gillian was born in 1990, 1040 00:50:27,542 --> 00:50:29,542 and our son, Ian was born in 1992. 1041 00:50:30,083 --> 00:50:33,667 And both my wife and I took a nurturing approach to parenting. 1042 00:50:33,709 --> 00:50:35,709 They didn't get everything they wanted, 1043 00:50:35,792 --> 00:50:37,334 but they certainly had a lot of opportunity 1044 00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:41,209 when they were young. And it was wonderful. 1045 00:50:41,584 --> 00:50:44,376 My brother got into dirt jumping as well, 1046 00:50:44,542 --> 00:50:47,917 so my Dad built my brother a dirt jump at our cottage. 1047 00:50:48,125 --> 00:50:52,542 My brother would just spend hours out there and he loved it. 1048 00:50:52,918 --> 00:50:56,502 - I remember the deliveries like they were yesterday. 1049 00:50:56,792 --> 00:50:59,084 I remember the snowstorm I had to get through 1050 00:50:59,125 --> 00:51:01,500 when Ian was being delivered in 1992. 1051 00:51:01,542 --> 00:51:04,001 It was December the 14th, that's when he was born, 1052 00:51:04,083 --> 00:51:06,584 I got a call at the organization I was working at, 1053 00:51:06,626 --> 00:51:08,085 got home, got in the car. 1054 00:51:08,125 --> 00:51:10,417 He was rushed right in the delivery room. 1055 00:51:10,501 --> 00:51:12,043 It was a very quick delivery. 1056 00:51:12,083 --> 00:51:14,208 Gillian took over 20 hours. 1057 00:51:15,334 --> 00:51:16,626 Ian was very quick. 1058 00:51:16,834 --> 00:51:18,793 We were the ideal family on the block 1059 00:51:18,876 --> 00:51:20,794 and I had a lot of friends who just 1060 00:51:20,834 --> 00:51:22,585 would continuously tell me that, 1061 00:51:22,626 --> 00:51:24,626 that we were a perfect family. 1062 00:51:24,751 --> 00:51:27,876 - The Carmichael's perfect family began to unhinge 1063 00:51:27,959 --> 00:51:30,918 shortly after David began taking Paxil. 1064 00:51:30,959 --> 00:51:33,418 I really didn't know very much about mental illness 1065 00:51:33,501 --> 00:51:35,127 until when I was 45 years old, 1066 00:51:35,167 --> 00:51:36,709 and I had my first major depression. 1067 00:51:36,751 --> 00:51:38,377 And I was treated with Paxil and in fact, 1068 00:51:38,417 --> 00:51:39,918 when I look back on it now, 1069 00:51:39,918 --> 00:51:41,544 there's no question I was a manic 1070 00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:43,502 when I was on Paxil for the first time. 1071 00:51:43,542 --> 00:51:45,959 That was the very first time that I 1072 00:51:46,667 --> 00:51:49,168 I ever even looked at the issues around drugs, 1073 00:51:49,250 --> 00:51:50,917 and side effects of drugs. 1074 00:51:51,375 --> 00:51:54,625 I noticed that there was a big difference 1075 00:51:54,918 --> 00:51:56,836 before he started taking medication 1076 00:51:56,876 --> 00:51:59,418 and then while he was taking the medication. 1077 00:51:59,584 --> 00:52:03,834 I remember him snapping on me about something very small 1078 00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,835 and I remember him spending so much time at his office. 1079 00:52:06,918 --> 00:52:10,043 I remember him being... 1080 00:52:10,167 --> 00:52:12,459 just being more quiet and 1081 00:52:12,542 --> 00:52:16,418 not being himself and looking stressed out, and... 1082 00:52:17,334 --> 00:52:19,876 just looking different. 1083 00:52:20,334 --> 00:52:23,293 You know, when I went to the doctor I was prescribed Paxil. 1084 00:52:23,375 --> 00:52:25,417 And I had gained a fair bit of weight, 1085 00:52:25,542 --> 00:52:28,959 I, um, had sexual dysfunction issues, 1086 00:52:28,959 --> 00:52:31,543 and my resting heart rate was higher. 1087 00:52:31,876 --> 00:52:33,460 And there was just... 1088 00:52:34,167 --> 00:52:38,376 this tremendous discomfort with being on that particular drug. 1089 00:52:38,792 --> 00:52:42,459 It really made me wonder, you know, should I be on it? 1090 00:52:42,667 --> 00:52:44,876 - Like so many who tumbled into the world 1091 00:52:44,959 --> 00:52:47,001 of antidepressants without forethought, 1092 00:52:47,083 --> 00:52:50,959 David Carmichael did so unaware of the potential dangers. 1093 00:52:51,542 --> 00:52:54,792 When I was on Paxil, we had no idea it could trigger delusions, 1094 00:52:54,876 --> 00:52:57,668 or, none of that was out in the public domain. 1095 00:52:57,959 --> 00:53:01,168 For so many years, I just assumed my doctor knew best. 1096 00:53:01,292 --> 00:53:03,584 I learned about the side effects the hard way. 1097 00:53:03,792 --> 00:53:05,792 It's like I can't participate in life, 1098 00:53:05,876 --> 00:53:07,043 I'm too busy worrying. 1099 00:53:07,125 --> 00:53:08,959 - When everything happened, 1100 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,209 I had just finished Grade 8. 1101 00:53:11,375 --> 00:53:13,625 For my friends, who knew my father, 1102 00:53:13,709 --> 00:53:15,959 they just knew that something was wrong, 1103 00:53:16,042 --> 00:53:19,001 because they knew who my dad was. 1104 00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:21,959 And you just would never in a million years think 1105 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,918 that he would do something that he did. 1106 00:53:25,448 --> 00:53:29,239 Yeah I... parenting was a high priority of mine, 1107 00:53:29,339 --> 00:53:31,423 to be the best parent possible. 1108 00:53:35,214 --> 00:53:37,673 And to have it end this way is pretty devastating. 1109 00:53:38,959 --> 00:53:41,751 [slow soulful singing] 1110 00:53:42,933 --> 00:53:47,057 - David Carmichael had been on 60mg of Paxil for two weeks 1111 00:53:47,291 --> 00:53:49,208 when he and Ian set out for one of 1112 00:53:49,256 --> 00:53:51,464 their favourite father-son activities: 1113 00:53:51,667 --> 00:53:54,834 a BMX bike competition in London, Ontario. 1114 00:54:00,648 --> 00:54:02,564 - What I've learned in this journey is 1115 00:54:02,626 --> 00:54:05,835 I no longer take for granted even one breath. 1116 00:54:06,501 --> 00:54:08,918 Things get reduced to the minutes, 1117 00:54:08,959 --> 00:54:12,209 and you know you have the strength for that minute. 1118 00:54:12,375 --> 00:54:15,042 [girls singing] It's a whole new world 1119 00:54:15,209 --> 00:54:19,376 and that's the place I've never been, 1120 00:54:19,584 --> 00:54:23,709 When I'm way up here... 1121 00:54:24,334 --> 00:54:26,417 David and I were friends in college. 1122 00:54:26,501 --> 00:54:28,335 We were both accounting majors. 1123 00:54:28,375 --> 00:54:30,834 David was that funny, 1124 00:54:30,918 --> 00:54:33,419 brilliant guy that you always wanted in your group. 1125 00:54:33,667 --> 00:54:36,543 - David was a guy you'd want to be around. 1126 00:54:36,876 --> 00:54:38,876 that's about the best way to explain. 1127 00:54:38,918 --> 00:54:41,043 When you met him, he was gregarious, 1128 00:54:41,125 --> 00:54:43,917 he was open, he was funny; he was very witty. 1129 00:54:44,125 --> 00:54:47,500 - My dad was a very caring Father, 1130 00:54:48,626 --> 00:54:49,835 very funny, too. 1131 00:54:49,876 --> 00:54:52,043 He'd wake me up in the morning singing 1132 00:54:52,125 --> 00:54:54,959 whatever group I was into at the time: 1133 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,542 it was Spice Girls when I was little 1134 00:54:57,918 --> 00:54:59,585 he's a brilliant auditor. 1135 00:54:59,626 --> 00:55:02,043 Auditing for a major corporation is stressful 1136 00:55:02,125 --> 00:55:04,459 and there's a lot of things that go with it 1137 00:55:04,501 --> 00:55:06,210 if you want to do the right thing. 1138 00:55:06,292 --> 00:55:09,126 - David was a guy who, like any of us, 1139 00:55:09,626 --> 00:55:12,918 had his share of challenges in life, we all do. 1140 00:55:13,292 --> 00:55:15,334 Especially in a big financial company, 1141 00:55:15,417 --> 00:55:18,251 there's stresses in our work, there's pressures. 1142 00:55:18,292 --> 00:55:21,084 Um, you know, we have kids to raise, bills to pay. 1143 00:55:21,167 --> 00:55:24,001 We went to the psychiatrist in early 2006 and he said, 1144 00:55:24,042 --> 00:55:25,459 well, what about Prozac? 1145 00:55:25,667 --> 00:55:29,209 - You have a chemical imbalance. Let's put you on Prozac. 1146 00:55:29,709 --> 00:55:32,168 It's the standard of care. It's what they do. 1147 00:55:32,292 --> 00:55:35,959 It's almost a marketing strategy that works, you know? 1148 00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:39,334 It's not my fault. I have a disease. 1149 00:55:39,918 --> 00:55:44,127 Within days of ingesting Prozac, David Crespi became troubled. 1150 00:55:44,375 --> 00:55:47,458 Towards the end of just talking back and forth and he said, 1151 00:55:47,626 --> 00:55:52,377 Do you ever feel like life is too dark to go on? 1152 00:55:52,584 --> 00:55:55,168 It's crazy. It's not the way I think. 1153 00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:57,667 Those thoughts aren't natural to me. 1154 00:55:57,834 --> 00:56:00,834 I recall a few events from the day before 1155 00:56:00,918 --> 00:56:04,127 that would suggest that he was going psychotic. 1156 00:56:04,375 --> 00:56:08,709 David was jumping out of the bed and walking around a throw rug 1157 00:56:08,751 --> 00:56:11,543 and hitting each corner and then jumping back into bed. 1158 00:56:11,584 --> 00:56:13,460 And I'm going, what are you doing? 1159 00:56:13,542 --> 00:56:15,126 He goes, it just feels good. 1160 00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:18,001 Well, now I attribute that to akathisia. 1161 00:56:18,250 --> 00:56:19,625 [police radio] 1162 00:56:19,667 --> 00:56:21,792 Code 6 - 105 North Avenue 52. 1163 00:56:22,209 --> 00:56:24,751 Our tragedy was January 20, 2006. 1164 00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:28,125 On that day, took all the kids to school, 1165 00:56:28,167 --> 00:56:29,584 left to go get my haircut, 1166 00:56:29,626 --> 00:56:32,168 left the girls in the care of their loving father; 1167 00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,042 they wanted to spend time with him. 1168 00:56:34,125 --> 00:56:36,375 When I came back into the neighbourhood after 1169 00:56:36,459 --> 00:56:38,751 being gone for an hour and fifteen minutes, 1170 00:56:38,792 --> 00:56:41,959 I saw a police barricade, and I saw some of my 1171 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,167 very concerned neighbours coming towards me. 1172 00:56:44,250 --> 00:56:46,417 The police officer asked my name and he said, 1173 00:56:46,501 --> 00:56:48,751 we're going to need you in this house 1174 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,083 [phone rings] 1175 00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:51,334 - Police Department. 1176 00:56:51,459 --> 00:56:53,918 - Yes. I just killed my two daughters. 1177 00:56:55,417 --> 00:56:56,500 - You just what? 1178 00:56:56,584 --> 00:56:58,584 - I just killed my two daughters. 1179 00:56:59,459 --> 00:57:01,293 I called my dad in California and 1180 00:57:01,334 --> 00:57:04,417 I made sure my stepmother was right next to him, and I said, 1181 00:57:04,501 --> 00:57:07,335 you know, Dad, I have to tell you something really hard." 1182 00:57:07,375 --> 00:57:09,584 I said, "I'm in the back of a police car and 1183 00:57:09,626 --> 00:57:12,168 I've just been told that David killed Sam and Tess. 1184 00:57:12,250 --> 00:57:13,584 - What did you do to them? 1185 00:57:13,626 --> 00:57:15,335 - I stabbed them. - You stabbed them? 1186 00:57:15,417 --> 00:57:16,376 - Yeah. 1187 00:57:16,417 --> 00:57:18,001 - How many times did you stab them? 1188 00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,751 - I don't know. I don't remember. 1189 00:57:19,751 --> 00:57:21,543 - OK, keep talking to me, because you 1190 00:57:21,667 --> 00:57:23,418 sound like you're a little bit tired. 1191 00:57:23,542 --> 00:57:24,584 - This is for real 1192 00:57:24,667 --> 00:57:26,293 - I know, I know It's real, Sir. 1193 00:57:26,375 --> 00:57:28,417 Everybody is on their way, okay? 1194 00:57:28,542 --> 00:57:31,917 Cathy, my stepmother adored Sam and Tess, as we all did 1195 00:57:32,125 --> 00:57:33,334 started wailing. 1196 00:57:33,417 --> 00:57:36,376 And I could hear her on the speaker phone and my dad goes, 1197 00:57:36,417 --> 00:57:38,126 Honey, Dave would not do that. 1198 00:57:38,209 --> 00:57:41,085 "David is not like that. You're mistaken. 1199 00:57:41,250 --> 00:57:44,625 I went, I wish I were, but I'm in the back of a squad car... 1200 00:57:44,959 --> 00:57:46,460 [siren] 1201 00:57:47,584 --> 00:57:49,335 The Crespi children were escorted 1202 00:57:49,417 --> 00:57:51,001 from school by the police 1203 00:57:51,042 --> 00:57:54,167 and were told nothing until Kim arrived at the station. 1204 00:57:54,250 --> 00:57:57,001 - they really thought that their dad had killed himself. 1205 00:57:57,209 --> 00:58:00,168 - My Mum came in and told us, 1206 00:58:00,334 --> 00:58:05,210 they're telling me that Dad killed your sisters. 1207 00:58:05,709 --> 00:58:09,251 We had to use the language, they're telling me , 1208 00:58:09,417 --> 00:58:13,417 because we couldn't believe that that's what actually happened. 1209 00:58:14,083 --> 00:58:17,750 - The idea of him killing Tess and Sam was so foreign, 1210 00:58:18,292 --> 00:58:20,751 but they knew something had happened. 1211 00:58:20,876 --> 00:58:23,918 And that's how the whole thing started. 1212 00:58:24,417 --> 00:58:26,918 - I went to the doctor and I can remember saying, 1213 00:58:26,959 --> 00:58:28,668 I'm afraid I may hurt someone. 1214 00:58:28,709 --> 00:58:32,210 Well she said, You re too compassionate to do that. 1215 00:58:32,292 --> 00:58:34,210 "that's just the depression talking. 1216 00:58:34,334 --> 00:58:38,751 Never was anybody saying, the medicine can do this. 1217 00:58:39,292 --> 00:58:42,459 Psychosis, the drug, killed our daughters. 1218 00:58:43,083 --> 00:58:46,208 Who I am was chemically altered. 1219 00:58:46,584 --> 00:58:48,168 My Dad in his right mind 1220 00:58:48,250 --> 00:58:50,209 wouldn't have done anything like this. 1221 00:58:50,292 --> 00:58:53,126 I can remember this battle of these thoughts aren't real. 1222 00:58:53,209 --> 00:58:56,085 Because when you have a complete psychotic break like that, 1223 00:58:56,209 --> 00:59:01,418 and you kill two of your most treasured people in your life, 1224 00:59:01,501 --> 00:59:03,168 people that every other day, 1225 00:59:03,209 --> 00:59:05,085 every other day he would have died for them. 1226 00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:09,751 What I did was done on a cocktail of legal drugs. 1227 00:59:09,959 --> 00:59:12,626 We were doing what the doctors told us to do. 1228 00:59:12,709 --> 00:59:14,418 We were being responsible. 1229 00:59:14,542 --> 00:59:18,209 Just because something's legal doesn't mean It's safe. 1230 00:59:19,417 --> 00:59:22,251 I suspect anybody hearing my story will go, 1231 00:59:22,334 --> 00:59:24,376 yeah, that's not going to happen to me, 1232 00:59:24,459 --> 00:59:25,542 but it could. 1233 00:59:25,584 --> 00:59:27,959 If it happened to us, it could happen to anyone. 1234 00:59:28,042 --> 00:59:29,584 But I know for certain, 1235 00:59:30,034 --> 00:59:33,451 that I know what caused the death of my daughters. 1236 00:59:33,792 --> 00:59:35,376 I know it was the pills. 1237 00:59:35,918 --> 00:59:37,794 And for all of that, we're serving 1238 00:59:37,876 --> 00:59:39,543 two back-to-back life sentences. 1239 00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:45,876 [slow soulful singing] 1240 00:59:48,792 --> 00:59:55,376 On July 31st, 2004, I had been on Paxil for three weeks. 1241 00:59:56,042 --> 00:59:59,584 I took Ian to a hotel room in London, Ontario and... 1242 01:00:00,209 --> 01:00:01,751 at 3 o'clock in the morning, 1243 01:00:01,792 --> 01:00:03,792 thinking that he had permanent brain damage, 1244 01:00:03,834 --> 01:00:06,335 that he was in living hell, he was going to kill my daughter, 1245 01:00:06,417 --> 01:00:08,500 Gillian, and he was going to harm other kids 1246 01:00:08,542 --> 01:00:10,625 and my wife was going to have a nervous breakdown, 1247 01:00:10,709 --> 01:00:12,376 which were my five delusions, 1248 01:00:12,459 --> 01:00:13,834 I strangled him, 1249 01:00:13,959 --> 01:00:16,793 and I sat with his body for six hours until 1250 01:00:16,834 --> 01:00:19,209 I called the police at 9 o'clock in the morning, 1251 01:00:19,292 --> 01:00:21,584 very calmly saying that I'd committed homicide 1252 01:00:21,667 --> 01:00:24,209 and opened the door for them, and then I was arrested 1253 01:00:24,292 --> 01:00:26,210 and charged with first degree murder. 1254 01:00:26,250 --> 01:00:28,209 When the police came in and arrested me, 1255 01:00:28,292 --> 01:00:30,001 they asked me why didn't I run. 1256 01:00:30,042 --> 01:00:32,042 I said, I wanted to stay with my son. 1257 01:00:32,083 --> 01:00:34,709 "he's in a better place now. He was in living hell. 1258 01:00:34,792 --> 01:00:37,251 And I stayed with him as long as possible. 1259 01:00:37,501 --> 01:00:41,626 - For 14 long days, David Carmichael was psychotic, 1260 01:00:41,792 --> 01:00:44,501 and suffered drug withdrawals in his jail cell, 1261 01:00:44,626 --> 01:00:47,377 before awakening to the ultimate terror. 1262 01:00:47,709 --> 01:00:50,029 - The psychosis lasted for two weeks 1263 01:00:50,083 --> 01:00:51,917 and after I came out of my psychosis 1264 01:00:51,959 --> 01:00:54,543 a couple of weeks after everything happened, 1265 01:00:54,626 --> 01:00:55,835 I was devastated. 1266 01:00:55,876 --> 01:00:57,168 I cried for three days 1267 01:00:57,209 --> 01:01:00,459 in segregation at the London Middlesex Detention Centre. 1268 01:01:00,542 --> 01:01:02,501 I could not believe what I had done. 1269 01:01:02,626 --> 01:01:05,502 - Ian was laid to rest by David's family. 1270 01:01:05,584 --> 01:01:07,709 It would be months before DNA tests 1271 01:01:07,792 --> 01:01:10,376 indicated that Carmichael's body was unable 1272 01:01:10,417 --> 01:01:12,792 to metabolize the Paxil he'd ingested 1273 01:01:12,876 --> 01:01:16,668 and that the drug was the likely cause of this unthinkable act. 1274 01:01:16,876 --> 01:01:20,085 Dr. Peter Breggin says he's seen it all before. 1275 01:01:20,417 --> 01:01:26,417 Many people do not have the array of enzymes in their livers 1276 01:01:26,501 --> 01:01:30,835 to properly destroy SSRI drugs 1277 01:01:30,918 --> 01:01:32,544 when they get in the bloodstream. 1278 01:01:32,626 --> 01:01:34,668 So the drugs pass through the liver, 1279 01:01:34,751 --> 01:01:37,085 and they don't get, quote, "metabolised", 1280 01:01:37,167 --> 01:01:39,209 meaning they don't get broken down. 1281 01:01:39,417 --> 01:01:44,751 So might get the equivalent of a 10 mg dose of an SSRI, 1282 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,667 but your blood level is 30 or 40 mg. 1283 01:01:47,834 --> 01:01:50,251 And there are studies out of Australia 1284 01:01:50,292 --> 01:01:52,459 correlating the violence 1285 01:01:52,542 --> 01:01:56,001 with the lack of the enzyme for these drugs. 1286 01:01:56,626 --> 01:01:58,460 The public has no understanding 1287 01:01:58,501 --> 01:02:00,501 of how Paxil or other SSRI 1288 01:02:00,584 --> 01:02:03,126 could trigger a homicidal psychotic episode 1289 01:02:03,417 --> 01:02:05,084 and they may not care, 1290 01:02:05,667 --> 01:02:08,709 you know, but there is evidence based on DNA 1291 01:02:08,751 --> 01:02:11,751 that Paxil did cause me to kill my son, Ian. 1292 01:02:12,709 --> 01:02:15,293 And it's something that I have to live with. 1293 01:02:15,542 --> 01:02:17,376 Even when I'm out in the public, 1294 01:02:17,417 --> 01:02:19,293 you know, my stigma is off the chart 1295 01:02:19,375 --> 01:02:21,750 compared to the stigma around mental illnesses. 1296 01:02:21,959 --> 01:02:24,168 But if people beat me up emotionally 1297 01:02:24,209 --> 01:02:25,876 when I'm out there, that's fine. 1298 01:02:25,918 --> 01:02:27,460 They'll never beat me up as much as 1299 01:02:27,501 --> 01:02:28,793 I beat myself up for a long time. 1300 01:02:28,918 --> 01:02:31,127 - For her part, Gillian, who was 1301 01:02:31,167 --> 01:02:33,250 only 14 when the tragedy occurred, 1302 01:02:33,292 --> 01:02:35,417 says she grew up the day she grasped 1303 01:02:35,459 --> 01:02:37,668 what had really happened to her father. 1304 01:02:37,792 --> 01:02:39,875 I realized who he was before, 1305 01:02:39,918 --> 01:02:42,043 who he was during the period of time 1306 01:02:42,083 --> 01:02:44,375 that he was taking the medication, 1307 01:02:44,501 --> 01:02:47,210 and I realized that they were two different people. 1308 01:02:47,334 --> 01:02:49,668 - David credits Gillian as the reason he 1309 01:02:49,751 --> 01:02:52,085 did not take his own life while in prison. 1310 01:02:52,417 --> 01:02:55,043 There were several times when I was either in jail 1311 01:02:55,083 --> 01:02:57,125 or in a psychiatric hospital where 1312 01:02:57,209 --> 01:02:59,251 I felt like taking my own life. 1313 01:02:59,292 --> 01:03:01,709 What kept me going was my daughter, Gillian. 1314 01:03:01,834 --> 01:03:04,585 I had one line and it was, 1315 01:03:04,709 --> 01:03:07,251 I'm a good dad. I'm going to be a dad again. 1316 01:03:07,334 --> 01:03:08,793 And that was my hope. 1317 01:03:08,876 --> 01:03:12,377 And I know Gillian, whatever she was doing, wherever she was, 1318 01:03:12,459 --> 01:03:15,709 was thinking that she wanted her dad back in her life too. 1319 01:03:16,375 --> 01:03:18,001 How can I not accept him back? 1320 01:03:18,042 --> 01:03:20,125 he's, you know, he's an amazing man. 1321 01:03:20,167 --> 01:03:21,918 he's my father and I love him. 1322 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,667 - David Carmichael was found 1323 01:03:23,667 --> 01:03:26,626 not criminally responsible for his son's death 1324 01:03:26,751 --> 01:03:28,418 as two psychiatrists, 1325 01:03:28,459 --> 01:03:31,377 one working for the defence and one for the prosecution, 1326 01:03:31,459 --> 01:03:33,377 both agreed that he was psychotic 1327 01:03:33,417 --> 01:03:34,918 at the time of the tragedy. 1328 01:03:35,167 --> 01:03:37,376 The public is not going to care about this. 1329 01:03:37,417 --> 01:03:39,542 You know, no empathy for me, but I think, 1330 01:03:39,584 --> 01:03:44,251 I'll tell you what the pain will never go away. 1331 01:03:45,918 --> 01:03:49,710 - Ian was just an amazing person and he was an amazing brother. 1332 01:03:49,918 --> 01:03:55,252 And he was an amazing friend and amazing son. 1333 01:03:57,125 --> 01:03:59,876 He just, he had so much life. 1334 01:04:01,417 --> 01:04:02,417 Yeah. 1335 01:04:03,834 --> 01:04:04,834 Sorry. 1336 01:04:06,542 --> 01:04:08,709 - Pretend that I'm the Glaxo CEO. 1337 01:04:08,751 --> 01:04:11,043 What would you like to say to me? 1338 01:04:17,709 --> 01:04:18,709 [chuckles] 1339 01:04:19,542 --> 01:04:20,542 Yeah. 1340 01:04:24,876 --> 01:04:27,335 If you were the GlaxoSmithKline CEO, 1341 01:04:28,417 --> 01:04:29,584 I would like to... 1342 01:04:29,918 --> 01:04:32,877 encourage you to be more honest with the Canadian public. 1343 01:04:32,918 --> 01:04:34,918 And if there are serious side effects 1344 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,876 to any one of your drugs, 1345 01:04:37,083 --> 01:04:39,792 it's not just about sending out notices 1346 01:04:39,876 --> 01:04:42,627 to health care professionals that many of them never read. 1347 01:04:43,083 --> 01:04:45,667 You've got to go directly to consumers and 1348 01:04:45,709 --> 01:04:48,335 make them aware of some of these dangers. 1349 01:04:48,542 --> 01:04:52,376 That's a responsibility that you have as a drug company. 1350 01:04:56,876 --> 01:04:59,502 - I was only put on for weight loss - weight loss! 1351 01:04:59,751 --> 01:05:02,418 - My sister did commit suicide in front of Lindsay... 1352 01:05:02,792 --> 01:05:04,459 - That gun I later learned was 1353 01:05:04,542 --> 01:05:06,376 loaded with hollow point bullets... 1354 01:05:06,584 --> 01:05:08,543 [cacophony of voices] 1355 01:05:09,125 --> 01:05:10,667 -... and the only way to have 1356 01:05:10,709 --> 01:05:12,668 peace and serenity again was to die. 1357 01:05:12,876 --> 01:05:14,543 - Do all of you want to take this drug? 1358 01:05:14,584 --> 01:05:16,043 Do all of you want to walk around 1359 01:05:16,125 --> 01:05:17,792 humiliated for the rest of your life? 1360 01:05:17,834 --> 01:05:20,376 - Thirteen years had passed since 1361 01:05:20,459 --> 01:05:23,377 the dramatic 1991 FDA-Prozac hearings. 1362 01:05:23,584 --> 01:05:27,251 By 2004, The British government had virtually 1363 01:05:27,334 --> 01:05:30,252 banned SSRIs for children and young adults, 1364 01:05:30,501 --> 01:05:33,419 in light of the real risk of suicide and violence. 1365 01:05:33,792 --> 01:05:37,584 But in America, the US FDA remained unconvinced, 1366 01:05:37,876 --> 01:05:39,627 and demanded more studies. 1367 01:05:39,709 --> 01:05:42,668 This was welcome news at Pfizer, GSK, 1368 01:05:42,751 --> 01:05:44,751 and The House That Prozac Built. 1369 01:05:44,918 --> 01:05:46,877 - We didn't know what the result was going to be. 1370 01:05:46,918 --> 01:05:49,794 We had no idea, but we wanted, we thought 1371 01:05:49,959 --> 01:05:51,877 getting as right an answer as possible 1372 01:05:51,918 --> 01:05:53,210 was the right thing to do. 1373 01:05:53,250 --> 01:05:56,333 In 1983, nine years before the launch 1374 01:05:56,375 --> 01:05:59,500 of Zoloft in the United States, 1375 01:05:59,918 --> 01:06:04,085 21 years before the FDA required Pfizer 1376 01:06:04,167 --> 01:06:06,459 to put a black box warning on it, 1377 01:06:07,375 --> 01:06:10,584 Pfizer had done a healthy volunteer trial 1378 01:06:10,626 --> 01:06:14,210 on Zoloft in the UK. 1379 01:06:14,375 --> 01:06:17,001 They recruited 12 women to this trial. 1380 01:06:17,501 --> 01:06:20,043 Half of them were to be given Zoloft, 1381 01:06:20,334 --> 01:06:22,793 the other half were given a placebo. 1382 01:06:23,501 --> 01:06:25,751 The trial was due to run for two weeks 1383 01:06:25,834 --> 01:06:28,126 but stopped after a week because 1384 01:06:28,167 --> 01:06:31,876 every single woman taking Zoloft 1385 01:06:31,959 --> 01:06:35,751 had become anxious, apprehensive, agitated. 1386 01:06:35,876 --> 01:06:39,543 One or two had begun to voice thoughts about harming others. 1387 01:06:39,751 --> 01:06:41,751 All of the things that led FDA to put 1388 01:06:41,834 --> 01:06:45,251 a black box warning on this drug 21 years later 1389 01:06:45,292 --> 01:06:47,001 were there in 83. 1390 01:06:47,375 --> 01:06:52,792 What was more, Pfizer looked at this trial and wrote down, 1391 01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:56,625 Zoloft has caused this problem. 1392 01:06:57,209 --> 01:07:00,168 - For Mathy Downing, and thousands like her, 1393 01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:03,584 the earth-shattering epiphanies came weeks too late. 1394 01:07:03,709 --> 01:07:08,834 Ironically, it happens that the doctor that 1395 01:07:08,876 --> 01:07:12,627 approved Zoloft as an antidepressant for children, 1396 01:07:12,709 --> 01:07:16,126 Tom Laughren, ironically, I know this man. 1397 01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:19,375 because both of his daughters attended school 1398 01:07:19,459 --> 01:07:21,626 with my daughters for eight years. 1399 01:07:21,751 --> 01:07:24,543 - For over 20 years, Thomas Laughren was 1400 01:07:24,584 --> 01:07:27,376 head of FDA's psycho-pharmacology division. 1401 01:07:28,042 --> 01:07:31,376 I had no idea he worked at FDA until I saw him 1402 01:07:31,459 --> 01:07:35,168 on the FDA panel three weeks after Candace died. 1403 01:07:35,834 --> 01:07:39,293 I sat there with my husband and we listened for eight hours 1404 01:07:39,375 --> 01:07:43,834 while person after person after person basically told our story. 1405 01:07:44,501 --> 01:07:49,751 I went up to speak with him when the meeting was over and I said, 1406 01:07:49,834 --> 01:07:53,959 where can I find information about those contraindications? 1407 01:07:54,042 --> 01:07:56,001 And he told me he would give me 1408 01:07:56,042 --> 01:07:57,918 a list of people for me to talk to, 1409 01:07:58,042 --> 01:08:00,793 and then I never spoke to him again. 1410 01:08:01,209 --> 01:08:04,584 I mean, he's a father of two of my daughters friends. 1411 01:08:04,626 --> 01:08:06,502 I really did think he would help me, 1412 01:08:06,584 --> 01:08:08,293 I thought he would follow through 1413 01:08:08,334 --> 01:08:11,668 and help me gain the information I needed, but he didn't. 1414 01:08:11,918 --> 01:08:15,001 - As fate would have it, yet another FDA hearing 1415 01:08:15,083 --> 01:08:19,458 on SSRIs and violence was held in September 2004. 1416 01:08:19,709 --> 01:08:22,585 In one brief, emotionally-charged moment, 1417 01:08:22,626 --> 01:08:25,335 Mathy Downing stepped up the microphone. 1418 01:08:25,667 --> 01:08:30,418 And when I spoke at the FDA hearings on September 13, 1419 01:08:30,834 --> 01:08:32,626 I addressed him personally. 1420 01:08:32,918 --> 01:08:36,544 - After months of grieving and too-few answers, 1421 01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:38,834 Mathy Downing finally let loose. 1422 01:08:39,375 --> 01:08:41,834 The blood of these children are on your hands. 1423 01:08:42,292 --> 01:08:45,709 I remember seeing Mathy Downing stand up at the hearing 1424 01:08:45,792 --> 01:08:48,792 and confront the... Laughren and the other 1425 01:08:48,834 --> 01:08:51,418 FDA panel members and say, you know, 1426 01:08:51,459 --> 01:08:53,668 the blood of my daughter is on your hands. 1427 01:08:53,792 --> 01:08:55,084 And she was right. 1428 01:08:55,125 --> 01:08:58,584 - Later, Mathy Downing learned that Thomas Laughren 1429 01:08:58,626 --> 01:09:01,793 had been in the thick of the sSRI controversy 1430 01:09:01,834 --> 01:09:05,168 since well before the 1991 Prozac hearings. 1431 01:09:05,501 --> 01:09:07,377 Some of the people we find as 1432 01:09:07,417 --> 01:09:09,626 the original culprits, the problem at FDA, 1433 01:09:09,667 --> 01:09:15,418 Dr. Bob Temple; Thomas Laughren is horribly guilty. 1434 01:09:15,834 --> 01:09:19,084 All these same individuals were involved 1435 01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:22,043 back in the early 90s when this risk 1436 01:09:22,125 --> 01:09:24,334 was being raised and identified, 1437 01:09:24,501 --> 01:09:27,668 and rather than pursuing safety concerns 1438 01:09:27,709 --> 01:09:30,792 or requiring drug companies to do more 1439 01:09:30,834 --> 01:09:33,834 to determine if this is a serious risk, 1440 01:09:34,125 --> 01:09:35,542 they looked the other way. 1441 01:09:35,709 --> 01:09:40,251 - Laughren left FDA in 2012 and started a new business, 1442 01:09:40,417 --> 01:09:42,376 dedicated to helping drug companies 1443 01:09:42,417 --> 01:09:44,709 get FDA approval for their drugs. 1444 01:09:44,834 --> 01:09:47,001 But he was not alone at the intersection 1445 01:09:47,042 --> 01:09:49,668 of public service and personal profit. 1446 01:09:50,167 --> 01:09:53,085 I do not find from the evidence today 1447 01:09:53,125 --> 01:09:55,917 that there is credible evidence to support a conclusion 1448 01:09:55,959 --> 01:09:58,668 that antidepressant drugs cause the emergence 1449 01:09:58,792 --> 01:10:01,668 and/ or the intensification of suicidality 1450 01:10:01,959 --> 01:10:04,001 and/or other violent behaviours. 1451 01:10:04,334 --> 01:10:06,751 - When Dr. Daniel Casey resurfaced, 1452 01:10:06,834 --> 01:10:10,418 nine years after the 1991 Prozac hearings he chaired, 1453 01:10:10,626 --> 01:10:14,001 he did so as a paid expert witness for Pfizer. 1454 01:10:14,209 --> 01:10:17,543 Attorney Andy Vickery conducted the deposition. 1455 01:10:17,834 --> 01:10:19,460 - You were the Chairman of that 1456 01:10:19,542 --> 01:10:21,334 committee for several years, right? 1457 01:10:21,375 --> 01:10:22,417 Yes. 1458 01:10:22,459 --> 01:10:24,001 The chairman of that committee 1459 01:10:24,042 --> 01:10:26,918 who is moderating it in a public building in a public place 1460 01:10:26,959 --> 01:10:28,918 was wearing a bullet proof vest. 1461 01:10:28,959 --> 01:10:30,251 - Dr. Casey, did you wear 1462 01:10:30,292 --> 01:10:32,084 a bulletproof vest to that meeting? 1463 01:10:32,125 --> 01:10:33,125 Yes. 1464 01:10:33,542 --> 01:10:35,709 - Had you ever worn one prior to that time? 1465 01:10:35,751 --> 01:10:36,793 No. 1466 01:10:36,876 --> 01:10:39,043 - Have you ever worn one since? - No. 1467 01:10:39,209 --> 01:10:41,626 ...because he thought one of the family members 1468 01:10:41,709 --> 01:10:44,501 of the people being harmed by Prozac would shoot him. 1469 01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:47,168 - You certainly did not believe it was the folks 1470 01:10:47,209 --> 01:10:50,127 on the Eli Lilly side of the coin, did you? 1471 01:10:50,375 --> 01:10:51,375 No. 1472 01:10:51,626 --> 01:10:53,001 No conflict of interest? 1473 01:10:53,167 --> 01:10:56,001 - And yet that would not effect your objectivity. 1474 01:10:56,292 --> 01:10:57,959 - Is that your testimony? - Yes. 1475 01:10:59,626 --> 01:11:01,751 - Others, like Harvard University's 1476 01:11:01,792 --> 01:11:04,042 influential Dr. Joseph Biederman, 1477 01:11:04,209 --> 01:11:07,001 also seem to display an unnerving indifference 1478 01:11:07,042 --> 01:11:08,793 to their conflicts-of-interest. 1479 01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,709 Here, Biederman was being deposed 1480 01:11:10,751 --> 01:11:12,377 as a key thought-leader , 1481 01:11:12,459 --> 01:11:14,751 one of those most responsible for spreading 1482 01:11:14,792 --> 01:11:17,584 the off-label use of the anti-psychotic Risperdal 1483 01:11:17,667 --> 01:11:19,418 to millions of teens. 1484 01:11:50,167 --> 01:11:52,668 In a remote town in western Canada, 1485 01:11:52,792 --> 01:11:55,459 the Stephan family was facing a life and death 1486 01:11:55,501 --> 01:11:58,293 struggle in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. 1487 01:11:58,417 --> 01:12:01,168 Two of Debbie Stephan's children were exhibiting 1488 01:12:01,250 --> 01:12:04,168 the same symptoms that had ultimately claimed her life: 1489 01:12:04,375 --> 01:12:06,959 Joseph was becoming frighteningly violent 1490 01:12:07,042 --> 01:12:10,334 and his sister Autumn was succumbing to severe bipolar, 1491 01:12:10,417 --> 01:12:12,667 with its mercurial mood swings. 1492 01:12:12,876 --> 01:12:15,752 Their father, Tony Stephan, was desperate 1493 01:12:15,876 --> 01:12:18,668 and searching for any way to save his children, 1494 01:12:18,792 --> 01:12:20,668 when drug after drug failed. 1495 01:12:21,167 --> 01:12:25,085 The answer came from what seemed the unlikeliest of places: 1496 01:12:25,167 --> 01:12:28,085 micro nutrients, mainly minerals. 1497 01:12:28,459 --> 01:12:33,251 - I remember the earlier days of doing the testing 1498 01:12:33,334 --> 01:12:35,793 with nutrients and different things. 1499 01:12:36,042 --> 01:12:38,793 I think they were trying to reduce 1500 01:12:38,834 --> 01:12:41,126 some liquid mineral thing to... 1501 01:12:41,209 --> 01:12:44,459 you know, so you didn't have to drink a whole cup of something, 1502 01:12:44,542 --> 01:12:45,709 it could be an ounce, 1503 01:12:45,751 --> 01:12:47,627 and I don't think it worked very good, 1504 01:12:47,709 --> 01:12:48,834 and it smelled funny. 1505 01:12:48,834 --> 01:12:50,917 I remember the smell and I can still 1506 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,876 taste it in the back of my throat. 1507 01:12:52,876 --> 01:12:55,460 I think they burned it, I'm not sure. 1508 01:12:55,751 --> 01:12:59,418 At first it didn't work. It did not work. 1509 01:13:00,125 --> 01:13:02,125 - I just remember I was out camping 1510 01:13:02,292 --> 01:13:06,709 and I had a little bottle of, I call it rust water, 1511 01:13:06,792 --> 01:13:08,501 it was the colour of rust, 1512 01:13:08,542 --> 01:13:10,625 and I was supposed to drink a little ounce 1513 01:13:10,751 --> 01:13:12,543 of that every day, a couple of times. 1514 01:13:12,584 --> 01:13:14,293 And so I would be doing that. 1515 01:13:14,375 --> 01:13:15,959 I mean, it was so experimental, 1516 01:13:16,042 --> 01:13:19,834 I didn't even really understand what we were really doing here. 1517 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:24,042 We put him on a cocktail that contained vitamins, 1518 01:13:24,083 --> 01:13:27,709 minerals, antioxidants and amino acids. 1519 01:13:28,334 --> 01:13:31,376 I was absolutely livid when I found out that 1520 01:13:31,417 --> 01:13:34,084 he had taken Joseph off of his medication, 1521 01:13:34,125 --> 01:13:36,125 and I said some terrible things to him. 1522 01:13:36,209 --> 01:13:38,626 I, I... told him it was on his head, 1523 01:13:39,083 --> 01:13:42,001 the next suicide in this family was going to be his fault. 1524 01:13:42,083 --> 01:13:45,208 - I remember about six weeks into this program 1525 01:13:45,792 --> 01:13:49,042 that we sat together on the couch and he said, 1526 01:13:49,584 --> 01:13:52,502 where was I? What happened to me? 1527 01:13:52,584 --> 01:13:55,085 "Why was I so angry all of the time? 1528 01:13:55,167 --> 01:13:57,376 I said, don't go there, you don't have to. 1529 01:13:57,501 --> 01:14:00,960 "Live the day now. You re here. Be in the present. 1530 01:14:01,083 --> 01:14:04,125 It was like one day waking up and a fog 1531 01:14:04,209 --> 01:14:07,793 had completely lifted, and that was amazing. 1532 01:14:07,918 --> 01:14:10,918 It was a very real turning point in my life. 1533 01:14:11,125 --> 01:14:13,834 - With Joseph on the mend, Tony Stephan 1534 01:14:13,876 --> 01:14:16,543 then turned his attention to his daughter Autumn, 1535 01:14:16,584 --> 01:14:18,751 who had been in and out of psych wards. 1536 01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,751 - I ended up in my dad's custody 1537 01:14:20,834 --> 01:14:23,293 and he has a friend who was a male psych nurse 1538 01:14:23,375 --> 01:14:26,709 who decided to hang around the house a lot and honestly, 1539 01:14:26,751 --> 01:14:28,793 I look back on it now, I think that 1540 01:14:28,834 --> 01:14:32,126 they were waiting for a moment 1541 01:14:32,209 --> 01:14:35,209 when they would have legal justification 1542 01:14:35,375 --> 01:14:40,084 to force me to go on this micro-nutrient stuff. 1543 01:14:40,751 --> 01:14:43,043 And at time, it was like this crazy concoction 1544 01:14:43,125 --> 01:14:45,917 with liquids and powders, and you know, pills and things 1545 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,083 and I had said no, and my husband had said, 1546 01:14:48,167 --> 01:14:50,001 No. We re not doing that. 1547 01:14:50,042 --> 01:14:52,125 And my psychiatrist said, No! 1548 01:14:52,584 --> 01:14:54,667 In fact, he said, don't rock the boat. 1549 01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:57,168 "You will die. Do not go off of this medication. 1550 01:14:57,292 --> 01:14:59,959 And I was on that five-drug cocktail at the time. 1551 01:15:00,042 --> 01:15:03,125 And so I had absolutely no intention of 1552 01:15:03,209 --> 01:15:05,209 doing what my dad had already started 1553 01:15:05,292 --> 01:15:07,751 with my brother Joseph, no intention. 1554 01:15:08,125 --> 01:15:10,500 I won't say that I forced her to do it because 1555 01:15:10,584 --> 01:15:12,793 that doesn't sound politically correct, 1556 01:15:13,042 --> 01:15:15,084 but I constrained her to do it. 1557 01:15:15,459 --> 01:15:17,335 You know, and she just didn't believe 1558 01:15:17,375 --> 01:15:19,126 that this was going to work at all. 1559 01:15:19,209 --> 01:15:21,584 And I said, Just keep taking your medications. 1560 01:15:21,667 --> 01:15:23,959 "I don't care. You know how to take your meds. 1561 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,959 Take this with it. Just keep taking it. 1562 01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:28,750 So they waited until I had a little med breakthrough 1563 01:15:28,792 --> 01:15:30,501 and I went rummaging for a knife, 1564 01:15:30,542 --> 01:15:32,667 and there was some screaming involved, 1565 01:15:32,751 --> 01:15:36,001 and he and this friend of his who 1566 01:15:36,083 --> 01:15:38,458 happened to be a psychiatric nurse, 1567 01:15:38,834 --> 01:15:43,917 um, stuffed me with a bunch of Ativan and put me to bed. 1568 01:15:44,542 --> 01:15:47,959 And then, while I was still really nicely sedated, 1569 01:15:48,209 --> 01:15:51,418 began force feeding me the concoctions. 1570 01:15:51,959 --> 01:15:56,751 - Back in 1996, when I first met Autumn Stringam, 1571 01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,334 it was the first day I also met her father Tony Stephan. 1572 01:16:00,459 --> 01:16:03,459 And was sitting there in front of us, completely normal, 1573 01:16:03,542 --> 01:16:07,917 very bright, very articulate, very charming young woman, 1574 01:16:08,417 --> 01:16:12,126 um, doing very well on vitamins and minerals, 1575 01:16:12,417 --> 01:16:16,126 but she had lived through this horrible, horrible period 1576 01:16:16,209 --> 01:16:18,459 and could remember it so vividly. 1577 01:16:18,667 --> 01:16:20,501 Uh, it was very impressive. 1578 01:16:20,542 --> 01:16:23,001 You knew that you were hearing a true story, 1579 01:16:23,417 --> 01:16:25,417 and I think that that has come through 1580 01:16:25,501 --> 01:16:27,168 consistently with Autumn. 1581 01:16:27,417 --> 01:16:29,876 I recognize that a huge percentage 1582 01:16:29,959 --> 01:16:32,543 of people with bipolar commit suicide 1583 01:16:32,667 --> 01:16:35,251 and it just as easily could have been me, 1584 01:16:35,709 --> 01:16:38,792 and it isn't, because something 1585 01:16:38,876 --> 01:16:40,794 really beautiful happened in my life. 1586 01:16:40,834 --> 01:16:43,834 And I have to acknowledge that, you know, that's not just mine 1587 01:16:43,918 --> 01:16:45,835 to take and run away with, but that there's 1588 01:16:45,876 --> 01:16:47,835 a lot of good that can be done in the world, 1589 01:16:47,876 --> 01:16:49,001 knowing what I know now. 1590 01:16:49,209 --> 01:16:52,584 - These were just three people from Southern Alberta, 1591 01:16:52,751 --> 01:16:58,418 who believed that they had fixed two children in Tony's family 1592 01:16:58,584 --> 01:17:02,293 and they did it with vitamins and minerals off the shelf. 1593 01:17:02,334 --> 01:17:05,876 And they just desperately wanted a scientist somewhere 1594 01:17:05,918 --> 01:17:08,669 to take them seriously and do some research. 1595 01:17:09,292 --> 01:17:13,375 - When Stephan and Truehope approached Dr. Kaplan in 1996, 1596 01:17:13,501 --> 01:17:15,960 she was the Director of Behavioural Research 1597 01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,792 for the University of Calgary. 1598 01:17:17,876 --> 01:17:20,876 As a scientist, she was highly sceptical, 1599 01:17:20,918 --> 01:17:22,794 and thought the notion of utilising 1600 01:17:22,834 --> 01:17:25,752 minerals for mental illness was simply preposterous. 1601 01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:28,709 I think Bonnie, when we first met her, 1602 01:17:28,792 --> 01:17:31,376 she kind of thought that we were flaky 1603 01:17:31,667 --> 01:17:35,042 because all of a sudden, you have these two strange dudes 1604 01:17:35,125 --> 01:17:37,917 coming from Southern Alberta and they've got this idea 1605 01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,792 that you can take people suffering with these 1606 01:17:40,876 --> 01:17:44,876 intractable, incurable mental disorders 1607 01:17:45,334 --> 01:17:47,501 and change them and bring them around, 1608 01:17:47,584 --> 01:17:50,709 when all along, science hasn't been able to do that. 1609 01:17:51,209 --> 01:17:53,168 I thought, well, that's impossible. 1610 01:17:53,292 --> 01:17:56,501 "You can't do that. There's no way it would have that effect. 1611 01:17:56,792 --> 01:17:59,710 But I think that line of thought 1612 01:17:59,792 --> 01:18:03,626 is reflective of our lack of education about nutrition, 1613 01:18:03,751 --> 01:18:06,960 and the fact that blood is bathing the neurons 1614 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,542 in our brain every minute of every day, 1615 01:18:09,667 --> 01:18:11,917 bringing oxygen and what? 1616 01:18:11,959 --> 01:18:15,084 Micro-nutrients to make those brain cells work. 1617 01:18:15,417 --> 01:18:17,500 - Stephan and his co-founder created 1618 01:18:17,584 --> 01:18:19,626 a non-profit called Truehope 1619 01:18:19,751 --> 01:18:22,126 and after years of experimentation, 1620 01:18:22,167 --> 01:18:26,167 they developed a mineral-based formula called Empower Plus. 1621 01:18:26,417 --> 01:18:30,084 Intrigued by Autumn and Joseph's successful transformations, 1622 01:18:30,209 --> 01:18:33,793 Dr. Kaplan and others continued studying the formula 1623 01:18:33,876 --> 01:18:37,668 for bipolar disorder, ADHD, and depression. 1624 01:18:37,959 --> 01:18:41,042 Some people call this a micro-nutrient sledgehammer, 1625 01:18:41,125 --> 01:18:43,084 because it's all of the vitamins, 1626 01:18:43,167 --> 01:18:45,834 and a very long list of dietary minerals. 1627 01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,501 The patients in this sample got much better, 1628 01:18:48,542 --> 01:18:50,501 in fact more than 50 percent better. 1629 01:18:50,834 --> 01:18:54,209 Quite a few of them were more than 75 percent better. 1630 01:18:55,417 --> 01:18:57,417 - He wasn't trying to build an empire 1631 01:18:57,542 --> 01:18:59,917 when he set out to save me and Joe. 1632 01:19:00,042 --> 01:19:04,376 It was not a deliberate act. He's not a formulator. 1633 01:19:04,751 --> 01:19:08,293 It was a conversation that led to an idea 1634 01:19:08,375 --> 01:19:11,792 that led to an answer and that's all he was ever in it for. 1635 01:19:12,083 --> 01:19:15,125 And he's faced so much opposition 1636 01:19:15,375 --> 01:19:17,126 for doing the right thing. 1637 01:19:17,250 --> 01:19:19,292 He's faced a lot of opposition for that 1638 01:19:19,334 --> 01:19:22,043 and I think it's changed the course of his whole life. 1639 01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,375 - As it has with Dr. Kaplan. 1640 01:19:24,501 --> 01:19:26,543 When she first presented her findings 1641 01:19:26,626 --> 01:19:29,252 about the Truehope mineral-vitamin combination 1642 01:19:29,334 --> 01:19:31,459 to the Canadian Psychiatric Association's 1643 01:19:31,501 --> 01:19:33,710 Annual Meeting in 2001, 1644 01:19:33,751 --> 01:19:37,085 she and the company were immediately under attack. 1645 01:19:37,417 --> 01:19:39,084 When I went to graduate school, 1646 01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:41,792 they did not prepare me to be personally attacked 1647 01:19:41,876 --> 01:19:44,210 for just doing objective research. 1648 01:19:44,375 --> 01:19:46,417 That was a little shocking. 1649 01:19:46,667 --> 01:19:50,543 We took a lot of arrows for about five years especially, 1650 01:19:50,626 --> 01:19:54,668 longer for the Truehope people, but it was very, very tough. 1651 01:19:55,209 --> 01:19:59,251 When you try and investigate a new paradigm, 1652 01:19:59,959 --> 01:20:01,959 the resistance is incredible. 1653 01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,292 I watched Dr. Kaplan go through this. 1654 01:20:04,417 --> 01:20:07,126 We had major resistance form Health Canada 1655 01:20:07,167 --> 01:20:08,542 shutting down trials. 1656 01:20:08,626 --> 01:20:10,544 I mean, here, the Alberta government 1657 01:20:10,626 --> 01:20:13,377 had provided 554,000 dollars 1658 01:20:13,542 --> 01:20:15,792 so that she could continue the work. 1659 01:20:15,918 --> 01:20:19,001 And Health Canada came in and swathed the trial. 1660 01:20:19,209 --> 01:20:20,418 They destroyed it. 1661 01:20:20,459 --> 01:20:23,251 - Health Canada not only shut down Dr. Kaplan's 1662 01:20:23,334 --> 01:20:25,001 scientific investigation into 1663 01:20:25,042 --> 01:20:27,001 micro-nutrients and mental health, 1664 01:20:27,042 --> 01:20:30,918 they ordered Truehope to stop manufacturing Empower Plus. 1665 01:20:31,083 --> 01:20:32,917 When the company refused, 1666 01:20:33,042 --> 01:20:35,960 they seized the product at the US-Canadian border 1667 01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,250 and banned it for sale in Canada. 1668 01:20:38,751 --> 01:20:39,751 - Why? 1669 01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,209 We're talking about vitamins and minerals here. 1670 01:20:43,250 --> 01:20:45,417 Well, what that tells you is anything that 1671 01:20:45,501 --> 01:20:47,419 challenges commercial interests, 1672 01:20:47,626 --> 01:20:50,418 such as that maybe micro-nutrients or 1673 01:20:50,459 --> 01:20:52,960 nutrients are a good thing to do, 1674 01:20:54,167 --> 01:20:58,043 boy, there are powerful forces behind a commercial story, 1675 01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,125 and they will come forth. 1676 01:21:01,542 --> 01:21:04,959 - When Truehope fought back through the Courts, and won, 1677 01:21:05,083 --> 01:21:07,584 it wasn't long thereafter that Health Canada 1678 01:21:07,667 --> 01:21:10,042 mobilized the Royal Canadian Mounted Police 1679 01:21:10,209 --> 01:21:14,543 to conduct a guns-drawn raid at the Truehope offices in Alberta. 1680 01:21:15,209 --> 01:21:17,793 Health Canada spent 2 million dollars 1681 01:21:17,918 --> 01:21:20,836 to prosecute Truehope for charges, 1682 01:21:20,876 --> 01:21:22,668 that had they been found guilty, 1683 01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:25,418 would have amounted to a 375 dollar fine. 1684 01:21:25,459 --> 01:21:28,043 Um, they lost. Health Canada lost, 1685 01:21:28,209 --> 01:21:31,127 but all of those costs to defend ourselves 1686 01:21:31,209 --> 01:21:33,751 were not recouped from Health Canada. 1687 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,667 Despite Pharma's falsified science 1688 01:21:36,751 --> 01:21:39,669 and billion-dollar fines for fraudulent marketing 1689 01:21:39,834 --> 01:21:43,376 and in spite of millions who were harmed by psychiatric drugs 1690 01:21:43,584 --> 01:21:47,251 Health Canada decided that it was this tiny non-profit 1691 01:21:47,459 --> 01:21:49,668 that needed to be shown the full might 1692 01:21:49,709 --> 01:21:51,168 of the Canadian government. 1693 01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:56,751 There has been a huge bias against nutrition research. 1694 01:21:57,417 --> 01:21:58,876 Who's triggering that? 1695 01:21:59,250 --> 01:22:01,917 Who, what is the political agenda 1696 01:22:02,083 --> 01:22:07,083 that is continually bombarding us with the message 1697 01:22:07,125 --> 01:22:08,917 that taking vitamins and minerals 1698 01:22:08,959 --> 01:22:11,209 might not be a good thing? I don't get that. 1699 01:22:11,334 --> 01:22:14,210 But the result is that there is a lot of bias 1700 01:22:14,292 --> 01:22:17,126 against people who say not only should we take them, 1701 01:22:17,209 --> 01:22:18,751 we should be studying it more 1702 01:22:18,792 --> 01:22:20,501 and we should see whether or not 1703 01:22:20,542 --> 01:22:23,168 there's treatment benefit from vitamins and minerals. 1704 01:22:23,334 --> 01:22:25,043 What I'm going to talk about today 1705 01:22:25,125 --> 01:22:27,375 may sound as radical as hand washing sounded 1706 01:22:27,417 --> 01:22:29,168 to a mid-19th century doctor, 1707 01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:31,418 and yet it is equally as scientific. 1708 01:22:31,542 --> 01:22:34,792 It is the simple idea that optimizing nutrition 1709 01:22:34,876 --> 01:22:38,377 is a safe and viable way to avoid, 1710 01:22:38,501 --> 01:22:41,210 treat or lessen mental illness. 1711 01:22:41,542 --> 01:22:44,959 - After nearly two decades of wrangling with Health Canada, 1712 01:22:45,042 --> 01:22:47,709 and three-quarters of a million dollars in court costs 1713 01:22:47,751 --> 01:22:49,627 and legal fees for Truehope, 1714 01:22:49,751 --> 01:22:52,751 Bonnie Kaplan, Julia Rucklidge, and 1715 01:22:52,834 --> 01:22:54,418 others continue to investigate 1716 01:22:54,459 --> 01:22:56,584 the use of nutrients as a primary treatment 1717 01:22:56,626 --> 01:22:58,043 for mental health. 1718 01:22:58,083 --> 01:23:00,417 Yet the road has been anything but easy. 1719 01:23:00,834 --> 01:23:04,917 I was very aware of how many people 1720 01:23:05,209 --> 01:23:08,835 were incredibly sceptical about this work. 1721 01:23:09,292 --> 01:23:11,334 I was trained as a scientist 1722 01:23:11,584 --> 01:23:14,667 and we need to evaluate the evidence. 1723 01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,501 What has astounded me is the obstacles that we faced 1724 01:23:19,626 --> 01:23:22,751 in order to try to answer what's a, I think, 1725 01:23:22,876 --> 01:23:25,668 a very important question for our community. 1726 01:23:25,918 --> 01:23:28,669 I happen to think that medications are very important, 1727 01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:30,501 especially in acute crises. 1728 01:23:30,584 --> 01:23:34,335 But, to me they're the supplement, in the ideal world. 1729 01:23:34,584 --> 01:23:37,418 I believe that it would be more beneficial 1730 01:23:37,501 --> 01:23:40,918 to a lot of people especially developing children, 1731 01:23:41,125 --> 01:23:45,292 um, to be treated first with everything psychosocial, 1732 01:23:45,334 --> 01:23:47,043 family therapy, etcetera, 1733 01:23:47,125 --> 01:23:48,959 and nutritional, which is not 1734 01:23:49,042 --> 01:23:51,376 going to cause any long term harm, 1735 01:23:51,542 --> 01:23:54,251 and that that should be primary intervention. 1736 01:23:54,292 --> 01:23:56,210 It took me two more months to get off 1737 01:23:56,250 --> 01:23:57,959 of the rest of my medication 1738 01:23:58,042 --> 01:24:00,334 and I'd say the better part of the year 1739 01:24:00,375 --> 01:24:03,792 before I felt like I was just really stable. 1740 01:24:04,334 --> 01:24:07,459 There are going to be people who want to say 1741 01:24:07,542 --> 01:24:10,209 that, you know, I'm just trying to make a lot of money 1742 01:24:10,334 --> 01:24:13,543 off of a big made-up story, but my mother's dead in the ground. 1743 01:24:13,584 --> 01:24:15,085 Her dad's dead. 1744 01:24:15,417 --> 01:24:17,417 We all know how that happened. 1745 01:24:18,459 --> 01:24:20,834 She had a prescription, and there's 1746 01:24:20,876 --> 01:24:23,043 some things you just can't argue with, you know? 1747 01:24:23,334 --> 01:24:24,376 And uh... 1748 01:24:24,417 --> 01:24:25,918 and I'm not dead. 1749 01:24:26,375 --> 01:24:29,209 And I've got four healthy kids and a great marriage. 1750 01:24:29,250 --> 01:24:31,084 And that's something I didn't expect 1751 01:24:31,125 --> 01:24:32,876 would ever happen with me. 1752 01:24:34,876 --> 01:24:37,668 [slow music] 1753 01:24:42,792 --> 01:24:46,751 The lesson of a generation's worth of psychiatric experiments 1754 01:24:46,834 --> 01:24:49,543 is that regulators didn't protect the public; 1755 01:24:49,584 --> 01:24:51,959 doctors didn't protect their patients; 1756 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,918 journalists refused to ask the tough questions; 1757 01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,792 the pharmaceutical companies played 1758 01:24:56,834 --> 01:24:58,876 the system and profited handsomely; 1759 01:24:58,918 --> 01:25:02,085 and millions suffered, died, became addicts, 1760 01:25:02,209 --> 01:25:03,876 or were otherwise harmed. 1761 01:25:04,459 --> 01:25:06,584 You know, a lot of times parents think that 1762 01:25:06,667 --> 01:25:09,209 their eight or nine-year-old just won't understand; 1763 01:25:09,292 --> 01:25:11,850 it's just easier to just give them the medications. 1764 01:25:11,918 --> 01:25:14,752 But not telling your kid why they're taking the medication 1765 01:25:14,792 --> 01:25:16,792 or what the medication is supposed to do 1766 01:25:16,834 --> 01:25:18,251 can be really harmful. 1767 01:25:18,292 --> 01:25:20,709 And having that kernel of knowledge 1768 01:25:20,751 --> 01:25:22,876 that these things that I was experiencing 1769 01:25:22,918 --> 01:25:25,168 weren't me but were caused by a medication, 1770 01:25:25,209 --> 01:25:26,626 I think would've been... 1771 01:25:26,709 --> 01:25:29,709 would've saved a lot of pain. 1772 01:25:30,792 --> 01:25:31,917 A lot of pain. 1773 01:25:32,250 --> 01:25:33,584 We've been through a lot. 1774 01:25:33,626 --> 01:25:35,668 And she stopped taking the drugs and 1775 01:25:35,709 --> 01:25:37,668 a new kid, you know, came forward. 1776 01:25:37,792 --> 01:25:41,001 Straight As at the University of St. Thomas; 1777 01:25:41,083 --> 01:25:44,458 summa cum laude; valedictorian; unbelievable. 1778 01:25:44,584 --> 01:25:48,168 Here is this child that I was afraid would never get 1779 01:25:48,209 --> 01:25:51,001 out of her bedroom is now doing what she's doing. 1780 01:25:51,167 --> 01:25:52,626 So... 1781 01:25:53,250 --> 01:25:55,250 Um, at any rate, 1782 01:25:55,334 --> 01:25:58,835 it's, it's a great thing that I have a kid who has 1783 01:25:58,918 --> 01:26:02,419 the tenacity and the... had the ability 1784 01:26:02,501 --> 01:26:04,085 to tell us what she needed. 1785 01:26:04,125 --> 01:26:07,125 And I'm afraid there are a lot of kids who aren't like that, 1786 01:26:07,209 --> 01:26:09,793 and they're going to be in a stupor or worse. 1787 01:26:10,042 --> 01:26:12,626 - These are stories of those who have fallen 1788 01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:15,376 and of those who have somehow survived. 1789 01:26:15,626 --> 01:26:19,293 Many lost sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, 1790 01:26:19,584 --> 01:26:21,751 and their tragedies forced these 1791 01:26:21,834 --> 01:26:24,209 private people out of the shadows. 1792 01:26:24,292 --> 01:26:25,834 They wanted answers 1793 01:26:25,918 --> 01:26:28,836 and were not interested in the politics of medicine. 1794 01:26:28,959 --> 01:26:31,835 If the truth had been afforded us decades ago, 1795 01:26:31,959 --> 01:26:35,084 millions would have been spared similar fates. 1796 01:26:35,667 --> 01:26:38,585 It's a very primitive thing, missing your children. 1797 01:26:38,667 --> 01:26:41,293 You miss their warmth and their smell 1798 01:26:41,375 --> 01:26:45,084 and their lovely, lovely presence. 1799 01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:49,584 - Perhaps change is coming, albeit too slowly. 1800 01:26:50,083 --> 01:26:53,875 But until it occurs, we should take nothing for granted: 1801 01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:56,875 not our loves, nor our lives, 1802 01:26:56,959 --> 01:26:59,751 or the gift of our families and friends. 1803 01:26:59,834 --> 01:27:03,335 As these Letters From Generation Rx have taught us, 1804 01:27:03,459 --> 01:27:05,335 there is peril in the conventional 1805 01:27:05,417 --> 01:27:07,918 wisdom of treating so many people 1806 01:27:08,250 --> 01:27:13,084 so indiscriminately, with such powerful, life-changing drugs. 1807 01:27:13,959 --> 01:27:15,835 You know, if somebody said to me that 1808 01:27:15,918 --> 01:27:19,168 Brennan could come back to life and I'd never see him again, 1809 01:27:19,250 --> 01:27:21,417 but I know that he could live his life, 1810 01:27:21,459 --> 01:27:22,918 the biggest loss for me, 1811 01:27:22,959 --> 01:27:24,959 is the wonderful life he could have had. 1812 01:27:24,996 --> 01:27:26,914 'Cause he would have been a great dad. 1813 01:27:26,959 --> 01:27:28,668 He was a great friend to everybody. 1814 01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:33,084 If that's what it took, then I would do that in a second. 1815 01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:43,042 - As they mourn every birthday, every holiday; 1816 01:27:43,834 --> 01:27:46,626 every anniversary of a loved one's death, 1817 01:27:47,459 --> 01:27:50,751 their only prayer is to stop this from happening 1818 01:27:51,083 --> 01:27:52,375 to anyone else. 138004

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