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Downloaded from
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[wind blowing]
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[slow atmospheric singing]
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I've had to renegotiate
that memory
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over and over and over again.
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Gravel spitting and water
flying and kids screaming.
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It was the summer
after I turned eight.
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We never really knew
what to expect from mum.
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During a particularly bad swing,
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00:00:41,167 --> 00:00:44,945
she went through some really
desperate days there and
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00:00:45,250 --> 00:00:47,375
she put us all in the Bronco
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and took us for a drive
down to the river.
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Before we got to the river,
she was just purely robotic.
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She decided it was time
for all of us...
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00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:04,709
to die.
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It's time to die; we re all
gonna feel better soon;
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"we'll all feel better soon,
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00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:11,834
"we re all gonna
feel better soon"
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00:01:14,834 --> 00:01:18,668
My memories of that moment are
really in black and white.
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00:01:20,209 --> 00:01:24,209
I'm not sure I ever really met
my mum again after that point.
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[slow guttural singing]
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- A strange story out of
Florida this morning,
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00:01:46,686 --> 00:01:49,020
where the mother of
three children drove
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00:01:49,045 --> 00:01:51,504
into the ocean off
of Daytona Beach.
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00:01:52,667 --> 00:01:54,876
The pregnant mum spoke of demons
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00:01:54,876 --> 00:01:57,335
before driving into
the Atlantic...
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00:01:59,459 --> 00:02:02,960
Police say they've never
seen anything like this...
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00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:09,334
The tiny city of Newburgh New
York is trying to come to grips
30
00:02:09,375 --> 00:02:11,625
with the deaths of
3 young children
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00:02:11,667 --> 00:02:14,876
who died when their mother drove
them into the Hudson River.
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00:02:14,918 --> 00:02:17,377
We are talking about
a tragedy in this city
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00:02:17,417 --> 00:02:19,834
that I would say is
probably second-to-none.
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00:02:19,876 --> 00:02:23,085
- It all unfolded at this
boat ramp Tuesday evening.
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00:02:23,209 --> 00:02:25,626
- Any effort to
locate the vehicle,
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00:02:25,834 --> 00:02:29,126
difficult at best, it was not
floating, it was underwater.
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00:02:29,334 --> 00:02:31,876
- Among the victims are
2-year old Lance Pierre
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00:02:31,876 --> 00:02:33,752
and his 11-month old sister.
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00:02:34,109 --> 00:02:36,709
- Perhaps we should take
nothing for granted:
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00:02:36,709 --> 00:02:38,627
not our loves, nor our lives,
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00:02:39,081 --> 00:02:40,706
our families or friends,
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00:02:41,042 --> 00:02:42,292
even our sanity.
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00:02:42,912 --> 00:02:44,621
One minute, all is well,
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00:02:44,626 --> 00:02:47,252
the next, we re plunged
into darkness,
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00:02:47,417 --> 00:02:49,459
unable to process what is real,
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00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:51,210
and what is madness.
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00:02:52,834 --> 00:02:56,084
Autumn Stringham realized
this all-too-young.
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00:02:56,626 --> 00:02:59,460
- It was the summer
after I turned eight.
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00:02:59,626 --> 00:03:02,626
- She should not be alive,
and she knows it.
50
00:03:02,918 --> 00:03:05,710
- That was the moment
51
00:03:06,292 --> 00:03:08,251
that shattered trust.
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00:03:09,542 --> 00:03:11,460
How do you...
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00:03:14,334 --> 00:03:17,501
You know, how do you trust
anybody after that?
54
00:03:18,209 --> 00:03:21,168
- Forced to confront a mystery
beyond her comprehension,
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00:03:21,209 --> 00:03:23,209
she spent decades haunted,
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00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:24,625
in search of answers,
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00:03:24,792 --> 00:03:26,293
in pursuit of peace.
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00:03:26,626 --> 00:03:30,085
When something like killing
all six of her children
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00:03:31,083 --> 00:03:34,001
made sense enough to put
the kids in the Bronco
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00:03:34,042 --> 00:03:35,584
and drive into the river...
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00:03:35,584 --> 00:03:36,584
I see it.
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00:03:38,709 --> 00:03:42,251
Gravel spitting and water
flying and kids screaming.
63
00:03:42,667 --> 00:03:46,459
Somehow she managed to dig
it up to back out of that.
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00:03:48,106 --> 00:03:50,379
And that's an
incredible victory
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00:03:50,420 --> 00:03:52,585
for somebody
in that state of mind.
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00:03:52,626 --> 00:03:54,377
You know, there
are other mothers
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00:03:54,417 --> 00:03:55,876
who don't win that battle.
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- In exchange for
this redemption,
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00:03:58,042 --> 00:03:59,876
there was a price, however.
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00:04:02,834 --> 00:04:07,168
And it's taken me thirty years
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00:04:07,959 --> 00:04:08,959
to, um...
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00:04:14,542 --> 00:04:17,251
to be able to find the...
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00:04:19,751 --> 00:04:22,085
the beautiful side
of that memory.
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00:04:22,918 --> 00:04:25,918
- Autumn's mum did
eventually die by suicide,
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00:04:25,918 --> 00:04:27,502
alone on a country road.
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00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,918
Tony Stephan was now widowed
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00:04:29,918 --> 00:04:31,794
with eight children at home.
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00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,751
- I'm laying in bed
at night in my room
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00:04:35,834 --> 00:04:38,710
listening to a house
full of mourning;
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00:04:39,375 --> 00:04:42,042
and it just shattered
the whole family.
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00:04:42,167 --> 00:04:44,668
It just shattered the
children, it shattered me.
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00:04:44,761 --> 00:04:46,887
- It has become so commonplace,
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00:04:46,918 --> 00:04:49,710
these irrational acts
and horrific deeds,
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00:04:49,876 --> 00:04:51,959
that we've almost
become numb to it.
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00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:54,875
We've seen them in schools
and public spaces,
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00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,459
in homes and churches.
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00:04:57,167 --> 00:04:58,918
They're all over the news.
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00:04:59,417 --> 00:05:02,500
Try as we might
to understand them, we can't.
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00:05:02,626 --> 00:05:06,293
Try as we might to ignore them,
they call to us still.
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00:05:06,626 --> 00:05:09,709
We called the paramedics,
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00:05:10,375 --> 00:05:13,084
they tried feverishly
to revive her.
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00:05:14,042 --> 00:05:17,209
And I was trying to give her
mouth-to-mouth resuscitation
93
00:05:17,292 --> 00:05:20,126
but I knew something was wrong
because her body was cold.
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00:05:20,292 --> 00:05:24,793
- It's 2004. Andy Downing's
world has just been shattered;
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00:05:25,375 --> 00:05:29,625
his daughter, a victim of
an unimaginable act of violence.
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00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:32,042
But it was how this
11-year old girl
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00:05:32,083 --> 00:05:34,542
died that truly
horrified the world:
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00:05:34,667 --> 00:05:36,750
- Hello, I'm Candace Downing.
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00:05:37,125 --> 00:05:39,250
- Candace... hanged herself.
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00:05:39,626 --> 00:05:43,293
When Candace first died,
we asked ourselves,
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00:05:43,375 --> 00:05:46,126
how could we not know
that she was unhappy?
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00:05:46,209 --> 00:05:49,085
- The Downings didn't realize it
at the time, of course,
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00:05:49,167 --> 00:05:51,376
but her case
was not a rare event.
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00:05:51,751 --> 00:05:55,377
No. Candace was far from alone.
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00:05:56,792 --> 00:06:00,126
- She started on this drug
somewhere around January.
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00:06:00,751 --> 00:06:04,252
And these things
make you unafraid.
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00:06:04,501 --> 00:06:08,710
They make you do things
you wouldn't do normally.
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00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:10,625
They make you...
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00:06:12,375 --> 00:06:16,042
able to put a rope around
your neck and hang yourself.
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00:06:17,334 --> 00:06:20,001
Caitlin died at home
and we found her,
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00:06:20,417 --> 00:06:22,459
and she'd probably had been dead
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00:06:22,501 --> 00:06:24,460
for maybe at the
most five minutes
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00:06:24,501 --> 00:06:25,751
when we found her.
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00:06:27,501 --> 00:06:30,584
She'd hanged herself
in the guest bedroom upstairs.
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It really is like a perfect
mystery murder novel.
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00:06:37,042 --> 00:06:39,709
I mean, it's almost like
killing somebody
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00:06:39,792 --> 00:06:42,543
with an icicle and it melts
and the weapon is gone.
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00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:44,959
- They were still
dizzy from death,
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00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:46,501
traumatized and broken,
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00:06:46,828 --> 00:06:48,787
when they solved the mystery.
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00:06:48,834 --> 00:06:53,168
The drugs responsible,
they say, are called SSRIs
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00:06:53,417 --> 00:06:56,335
and they're among the
best-selling drugs in the world.
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00:06:56,459 --> 00:06:59,085
It was a sample pack of Paxil.
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00:06:59,501 --> 00:07:00,501
Cipralex.
125
00:07:00,667 --> 00:07:02,126
Sertraline, which is Zoloft.
126
00:07:02,250 --> 00:07:06,917
And the maximum dose of
Zoloft legally allowed.
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00:07:07,334 --> 00:07:11,252
There was one thing in her
system in the coroner's report:
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00:07:11,626 --> 00:07:15,460
a therapeutic dose of
Fluoxetine hydrochloride.
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00:07:15,918 --> 00:07:19,252
SSRIs are better known
as antidepressants.
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00:07:19,375 --> 00:07:21,458
These are some
symptoms of depression.
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00:07:21,501 --> 00:07:24,584
Psychiatric drugs like
SSRIs have been defended
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00:07:24,667 --> 00:07:26,667
with religious zeal
by their believers
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00:07:26,834 --> 00:07:28,209
and damned by others
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00:07:28,209 --> 00:07:30,918
as some of the most dangerous
drugs on the planet.
135
00:07:31,167 --> 00:07:34,126
Distinguishing truth from
fiction has been a challenge,
136
00:07:34,203 --> 00:07:37,620
and this has placed the public
in the unenviable position
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00:07:37,673 --> 00:07:39,686
of de-constructing
the scientific
138
00:07:39,711 --> 00:07:41,788
and medical dogma on their own,
139
00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:44,918
in the midst of a 30-year
social experiment.
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00:07:45,459 --> 00:07:48,673
As Director of the National
Institutes of Mental Health,
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00:07:48,751 --> 00:07:51,960
Thomas Insel has been at
the centre of a storm
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00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,417
of contradictions about
the use of these drugs.
143
00:07:54,709 --> 00:07:57,751
I think that we have to be very
humble about this right now,
144
00:07:57,792 --> 00:08:00,501
because we've often been
so self-congratulatory,
145
00:08:00,542 --> 00:08:03,001
because we have, after all,
146
00:08:03,751 --> 00:08:06,293
many people feel,
made great strides.
147
00:08:06,918 --> 00:08:09,293
The numbers don't
really support that.
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00:08:09,459 --> 00:08:12,834
- Dr. Insel's candour is sure
to shock and upset many,
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00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:14,752
on all sides of the debate.
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00:08:14,834 --> 00:08:18,376
The word failure is one
few have dared to utter.
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00:08:18,584 --> 00:08:20,751
Fundamentally, why
have we failed here?
152
00:08:20,792 --> 00:08:23,459
Why has the suicide
rate not come down?
153
00:08:23,667 --> 00:08:27,042
Why have the measures,
disability,
154
00:08:27,083 --> 00:08:28,542
whatever those might be,
155
00:08:28,542 --> 00:08:31,376
why have those continued
to go up instead of down?
156
00:08:31,501 --> 00:08:34,168
All of the numbers are going
in the wrong direction,
157
00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:37,542
so where, where have we failed?
What's gone wrong here?
158
00:08:37,709 --> 00:08:39,876
- The answers,
according to Insel,
159
00:08:40,042 --> 00:08:42,751
run contrary to the standard
arguments put forth
160
00:08:42,751 --> 00:08:44,834
by mental health professionals.
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00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:48,042
- A lot of people say it's
because of stigma and access.
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00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:50,333
The fact is that
actually more people are
163
00:08:50,358 --> 00:08:52,400
getting more treatment
than ever before,
164
00:08:52,448 --> 00:08:54,573
so it's hard for me to
quite believe that.
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00:08:54,709 --> 00:08:58,251
I would just submit that
from the NIMH perspective,
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00:08:59,083 --> 00:09:01,417
the answer about
why we've failed
167
00:09:01,459 --> 00:09:04,918
is a little more disruptive.
168
00:09:05,125 --> 00:09:07,792
And that answer is that
we don't know enough.
169
00:09:08,042 --> 00:09:11,292
- To hear the Director
of the NIMH say now that
170
00:09:11,334 --> 00:09:14,210
all of the exultations
about psychotropics
171
00:09:14,459 --> 00:09:16,542
from the media, from academia,
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00:09:16,667 --> 00:09:18,959
from the profession,
from governments,
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00:09:19,083 --> 00:09:21,792
were not merited is unsettling.
174
00:09:22,237 --> 00:09:24,362
After billions of prescriptions
175
00:09:24,417 --> 00:09:28,084
and hundreds of billions of
dollars in drug company profits,
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00:09:28,153 --> 00:09:29,445
how did this occur?
177
00:09:29,501 --> 00:09:33,085
I think that our field
has gone off track here
178
00:09:33,125 --> 00:09:35,751
by devoting so much
of its resources
179
00:09:35,876 --> 00:09:37,959
over the last 20 to 30 years,
180
00:09:38,042 --> 00:09:40,001
both publicly and privately,
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00:09:40,042 --> 00:09:42,709
just trying to understand
how the drugs work.
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00:09:42,792 --> 00:09:45,042
If the drugs were
truly curative,
183
00:09:45,542 --> 00:09:47,625
if it was like trying
to understand how
184
00:09:47,709 --> 00:09:49,876
insulin helps somebody
with diabetes,
185
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,667
that might be defensible.
186
00:09:51,918 --> 00:09:55,013
But you've got medications
here that, at most
187
00:09:55,083 --> 00:09:59,042
reduce some of the symptoms
of mood disorders,
188
00:09:59,452 --> 00:10:01,078
of psychotic disorders.
189
00:10:01,122 --> 00:10:03,914
They don't, in any
sense, provide a cure.
190
00:10:04,417 --> 00:10:07,417
This change of heart contradicts
what we've been told
191
00:10:07,451 --> 00:10:10,017
about psychiatric drugs
for a generation now
192
00:10:10,042 --> 00:10:13,417
and raises serious questions
about how and why these drugs
193
00:10:13,417 --> 00:10:17,209
have been dispensed so
indiscriminately to millions.
194
00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:19,168
- I was massively drugged.
195
00:10:19,209 --> 00:10:20,626
I tried drug after drug.
196
00:10:20,667 --> 00:10:22,667
I did what they told me to do.
197
00:10:22,751 --> 00:10:25,126
I used to take tranquillizers,
198
00:10:25,292 --> 00:10:26,667
bezodiazepines,
199
00:10:27,083 --> 00:10:29,750
that's all I did was
pop pills all day.
200
00:10:29,959 --> 00:10:32,084
They just kept handing
me pills, you know,
201
00:10:32,125 --> 00:10:34,834
here, let's try this, let's
try this, let's try this.
202
00:10:34,876 --> 00:10:38,126
And I felt like a walking
pharmaceutical company, really.
203
00:10:38,334 --> 00:10:40,459
And nothing was working.
204
00:10:40,459 --> 00:10:41,709
I was drugged out.
205
00:10:41,709 --> 00:10:43,792
I was a non-existent person.
206
00:10:43,792 --> 00:10:45,209
I mean, I was just...
207
00:10:45,334 --> 00:10:48,417
I had a heartbeat and that's
really all that I had.
208
00:10:48,417 --> 00:10:50,751
I was just sort of given
these pills and said,
209
00:10:50,792 --> 00:10:52,751
Swallow this. Take that.
Chew this.
210
00:10:52,876 --> 00:10:54,377
And I was never told:
211
00:10:54,417 --> 00:10:56,876
well, you might experience
these side-effects,
212
00:10:56,904 --> 00:10:58,655
or this actually
might not work.
213
00:10:58,694 --> 00:11:01,249
It's sort of like they
were just was given to me
214
00:11:01,274 --> 00:11:03,490
as like a panacea like,
215
00:11:03,501 --> 00:11:05,419
This is going to fix
your Tourette's.
216
00:11:05,459 --> 00:11:07,085
"This is going to fix your OCD.
217
00:11:07,125 --> 00:11:08,917
"This is going to
fix everything and
218
00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:10,918
"everything is going
to be all better.
219
00:11:10,973 --> 00:11:13,724
Really, as an 8 or 9-year-old,
I really believed that,
220
00:11:13,745 --> 00:11:16,162
until I began
really experiencing
221
00:11:16,207 --> 00:11:17,916
all those horrible side-effects
222
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,692
and it eventually changed
me into not even a person,
223
00:11:21,725 --> 00:11:23,143
but like a monster.
224
00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:24,459
I was horrible.
225
00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,085
Doctors, to a large
degree, have abandoned
226
00:11:27,167 --> 00:11:30,334
their Hippocratic oath,
which is to do no harm.
227
00:11:30,542 --> 00:11:33,334
And that is, it's like
a pill for every ill.
228
00:11:33,709 --> 00:11:36,418
They are knee jerk
prescribers, many of them.
229
00:11:36,626 --> 00:11:39,168
In fact, it has been shown
that the average doctor
230
00:11:39,209 --> 00:11:41,543
will make a decision
to prescribe a drug
231
00:11:41,667 --> 00:11:44,543
within 19 seconds of
seeing a patient.
232
00:11:44,709 --> 00:11:48,376
Using antidepressants, or any
of the psychiatric drugs
233
00:11:48,751 --> 00:11:51,210
is simply not understood,
234
00:11:51,250 --> 00:11:54,417
it's not explained,
it's not dwelt upon.
235
00:11:55,083 --> 00:11:58,875
I think they're in a
different class of drug from
236
00:11:58,876 --> 00:12:02,710
most of the drugs we take
for our other ailments.
237
00:12:02,834 --> 00:12:05,876
- In the 80s and 90s,
SSRIs were the first
238
00:12:05,959 --> 00:12:08,751
in a class of new
mental health potions
239
00:12:08,918 --> 00:12:12,127
heralded as wonder drugs
and miracle cures.
240
00:12:12,334 --> 00:12:14,459
They were extolled as
safe and effective
241
00:12:14,501 --> 00:12:17,480
solutions for the age-old
problem of depression
242
00:12:17,501 --> 00:12:19,293
and were marketed as such.
243
00:12:19,417 --> 00:12:23,876
Thus began an aggressive march
towards a new era in psychiatry,
244
00:12:23,918 --> 00:12:27,377
one which boasted chemicals for
the mental health conditions
245
00:12:27,417 --> 00:12:29,834
that had dogged humankind
for millennia.
246
00:12:30,083 --> 00:12:33,292
Thirty years later, however,
the window on that era,
247
00:12:33,334 --> 00:12:36,334
and its bold proclamations,
appears to be closing.
248
00:12:36,751 --> 00:12:38,001
What are we doing?
249
00:12:38,299 --> 00:12:40,633
I mean, especially when
it comes to children,
250
00:12:40,667 --> 00:12:42,667
we don't really know
how the drugs work,
251
00:12:42,667 --> 00:12:44,376
we don't know whether they work,
252
00:12:44,417 --> 00:12:46,542
we don't know whether
they're neurotoxic,
253
00:12:46,584 --> 00:12:48,584
and so that means we re
all in the middle
254
00:12:48,667 --> 00:12:50,209
of a public health experiment
255
00:12:50,275 --> 00:12:52,567
that's been going on for
the last 50-60 years
256
00:12:52,584 --> 00:12:54,709
and more intensively
for the last 30 years.
257
00:12:54,987 --> 00:12:57,445
My prediction, I don't
think I'll live to see it
258
00:12:57,584 --> 00:13:00,751
but my prediction
is, that some day,
259
00:13:01,042 --> 00:13:04,584
we will look back at
the antidepressant era
260
00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:08,918
and have the view of
prescribing antidepressants
261
00:13:09,083 --> 00:13:11,584
that now we have
of blood-letting.
262
00:13:11,959 --> 00:13:14,293
- Irving Kirsch
rocked psychiatry
263
00:13:14,334 --> 00:13:16,293
with an appearance on 60 Minutes
264
00:13:16,375 --> 00:13:19,584
and an explosive book,
The Emperor's New Drugs.
265
00:13:19,709 --> 00:13:22,959
Three times he tested
the data on SSRIs,
266
00:13:23,083 --> 00:13:26,500
three times, he verified that
prescription antidepressants
267
00:13:26,667 --> 00:13:29,244
were no better than
taking a sugar pill.
268
00:13:29,417 --> 00:13:32,001
Still, he was under
fire from critics
269
00:13:32,083 --> 00:13:33,792
who vowed to prove him wrong.
270
00:13:34,209 --> 00:13:36,584
People started doing
other studies.
271
00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:39,834
They said, well maybe you
did your statistics wrong.
272
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,501
Critics, opponents, they
took our data an re-did it.
273
00:13:43,709 --> 00:13:46,418
The FDA has done its
own meta-analysis,
274
00:13:46,459 --> 00:13:49,043
looking at all of
the antidepressants
275
00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:51,250
they've ever approved.
276
00:13:51,626 --> 00:13:55,377
And they got the same result.
Everybody gets the same result.
277
00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,794
In the immediate, it could
make a huge difference.
278
00:13:58,918 --> 00:14:01,252
You could have someone
going from being
279
00:14:01,292 --> 00:14:03,168
psychotic to being
non-psychotic,
280
00:14:03,292 --> 00:14:06,375
which is a pretty amazing
change in behaviour.
281
00:14:06,959 --> 00:14:09,710
But what I think what
we need to recognize
282
00:14:09,792 --> 00:14:11,795
that's happened
over the last 50 years
283
00:14:11,834 --> 00:14:17,585
is that they haven't shown to be
as good as we thought they were.
284
00:14:18,459 --> 00:14:20,876
- Yet, in the case of
psychiatric drugs,
285
00:14:20,897 --> 00:14:23,383
informed choice is
a bit of a misnomer
286
00:14:23,438 --> 00:14:27,251
and finding the path of
least risk can be daunting.
287
00:14:27,272 --> 00:14:30,148
In this vacuum, millions
have been harmed,
288
00:14:30,209 --> 00:14:32,085
simply due to a
lack of knowledge.
289
00:14:32,167 --> 00:14:34,834
Psychiatrists
knowledge and training
290
00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:36,751
in the area of
psycho-pharmacology
291
00:14:36,792 --> 00:14:39,084
is completely
inadequate, in my view.
292
00:14:39,125 --> 00:14:40,959
And this is partly
because of the focus
293
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,584
on the disease-centred model.
294
00:14:42,643 --> 00:14:44,435
Psychiatrists have
been so obsessed
295
00:14:44,475 --> 00:14:46,309
with what disease
different drugs treat,
296
00:14:46,334 --> 00:14:48,376
they haven't looked at
the drugs as drugs,
297
00:14:48,417 --> 00:14:50,043
and they haven't
understood all the
298
00:14:50,083 --> 00:14:51,709
harmful effects the
drugs can produce.
299
00:14:51,751 --> 00:14:54,310
It's time for us to stop and
reflect on this and say,
300
00:14:54,375 --> 00:14:57,251
Okay. Where are we at with
the use of medications?
301
00:14:57,375 --> 00:14:59,584
It serves a purpose,
it's got a place,
302
00:14:59,751 --> 00:15:02,669
but we need to also
stop and recognize
303
00:15:02,751 --> 00:15:04,627
that there is a cost to this
304
00:15:04,709 --> 00:15:09,001
and that there are people
who are struggling
305
00:15:09,125 --> 00:15:12,167
for other reasons now
because of the side effects
306
00:15:12,209 --> 00:15:14,085
associated with
these medications.
307
00:15:14,375 --> 00:15:16,876
- While the drug companies
ruthlessly defended
308
00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:19,794
their magic bullets in the
Courts and through the Press,
309
00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:22,085
they were, in effect,
stigmatising
310
00:15:22,125 --> 00:15:24,375
people who were
harmed by using them.
311
00:15:24,584 --> 00:15:26,709
The long lens of
history has revealed
312
00:15:26,751 --> 00:15:29,918
that the troubling effects of
these chemicals were well-known,
313
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,292
years before FDA and
other regulatory bodies
314
00:15:33,334 --> 00:15:35,709
actually approved SSRIs.
315
00:15:35,792 --> 00:15:38,001
This is hard for me
because I tried to
316
00:15:38,125 --> 00:15:40,709
commit suicide in front
of my five children.
317
00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:43,210
I attacked him with
a kitchen knife.
318
00:15:43,375 --> 00:15:45,334
I took the 9mm automatic,
319
00:15:45,417 --> 00:15:48,209
sat down on the bed and
put the gun to my head.
320
00:15:48,375 --> 00:15:50,667
After being on
Prozac for 21 days,
321
00:15:50,918 --> 00:15:53,960
my wife shot and killed both
of these two boys right here.
322
00:15:54,083 --> 00:15:57,834
Eli Lilly calls Prozac the
wonder drug and I wonder why?
323
00:15:57,918 --> 00:16:00,585
Thinking back on how
this drug affected me,
324
00:16:00,709 --> 00:16:03,293
does a wonder drug rob
you of a conscience?
325
00:16:03,334 --> 00:16:05,252
Does a wonder drug
make you forget
326
00:16:05,292 --> 00:16:07,210
the difference between
right and wrong?
327
00:16:07,292 --> 00:16:10,584
In the early 1990's this
issue had reached a peak,
328
00:16:10,667 --> 00:16:13,001
was Prozac causing
violence and suicide?
329
00:16:13,083 --> 00:16:17,208
But what happened was that their
psycho-pharmacology committee,
330
00:16:17,334 --> 00:16:19,501
almost everybody
on the committee
331
00:16:19,584 --> 00:16:21,376
worked for the drug companies.
332
00:16:21,542 --> 00:16:24,667
So the conflicts of
interest was so enormous
333
00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:27,181
that the FDA had to
give them all letters
334
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:29,500
forgiving them of their
conflicts of interest
335
00:16:29,584 --> 00:16:30,876
so they couldn't be sued.
336
00:16:31,098 --> 00:16:33,140
- What about your
concern regarding
337
00:16:33,209 --> 00:16:34,876
something like Prozac that,
338
00:16:34,959 --> 00:16:38,293
very well documented:
28,000 adverse reports,
339
00:16:38,501 --> 00:16:42,127
1600 suicides associated
with that drug.
340
00:16:43,167 --> 00:16:47,417
Well, drugs that go through
our very rigorous testing
341
00:16:47,501 --> 00:16:51,626
and review process are very
well understood chemicals.
342
00:16:51,792 --> 00:16:55,668
And drugs are recognized to
have both risks and benefits,
343
00:16:55,751 --> 00:16:58,293
that's why they go through
a rigorous evaluation,
344
00:16:58,335 --> 00:17:00,786
and when those products are
put out on the market,
345
00:17:00,834 --> 00:17:02,752
we have a good
scientific understanding
346
00:17:02,834 --> 00:17:04,460
of both the risks and benefits.
347
00:17:04,542 --> 00:17:06,834
And that's laid out in
very detailed labelling
348
00:17:06,876 --> 00:17:09,821
that physicians then use
to decide whether to
349
00:17:09,918 --> 00:17:12,210
prescribe those products
to their patients.
350
00:17:12,250 --> 00:17:14,917
Side effects are part
of pharmaceuticals,
351
00:17:14,959 --> 00:17:16,710
that's recognized,
and that's why
352
00:17:16,792 --> 00:17:18,792
we re so carefully
scientifically.
353
00:17:18,918 --> 00:17:22,001
Well, nothing could be
further from the truth than
354
00:17:22,042 --> 00:17:23,834
the chemical is
well understood
355
00:17:23,918 --> 00:17:25,794
or that the FDA was careful.
356
00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:28,585
Actually, what the FDA
was careful about
357
00:17:28,834 --> 00:17:33,335
was to consciously
cover-up every
358
00:17:33,584 --> 00:17:36,918
really dangerous adverse
effect of Prozac.
359
00:17:37,292 --> 00:17:40,168
- ...was on the list of things
we were gonna get into...
360
00:17:40,209 --> 00:17:41,376
- Why don't you...
361
00:17:41,542 --> 00:17:43,834
turn the camera off
so we can talk?
362
00:17:44,334 --> 00:17:47,001
- They did nothing,
absolutely nothing.
363
00:17:47,125 --> 00:17:50,485
Meanwhile, Eli Lilly
was busily hiding
364
00:17:50,584 --> 00:17:54,834
everything they could about the
increased rates of suicidality.
365
00:17:55,417 --> 00:17:59,209
It was a matter of how do we
cover it up? How do we hide it?
366
00:17:59,292 --> 00:18:01,084
At every step of the process,
367
00:18:01,125 --> 00:18:03,626
towards approval and
marketing thereafter,
368
00:18:03,667 --> 00:18:08,876
was designed to hide
and mislead the public
369
00:18:08,918 --> 00:18:11,210
and physicians about the
suicide side effect.
370
00:18:11,542 --> 00:18:14,418
Leigh Thompson, the chief
scientist at Lilly
371
00:18:14,542 --> 00:18:16,584
writes in February 7, 1990,
372
00:18:16,751 --> 00:18:19,210
that he had a
conversation with
373
00:18:19,292 --> 00:18:21,417
Dr. Paul Leber at 6:15
in the morning.
374
00:18:21,751 --> 00:18:23,085
Now, think about that.
375
00:18:23,209 --> 00:18:25,321
You work for the United
States government,
376
00:18:25,417 --> 00:18:27,667
the taxpayers of the
United States government,
377
00:18:27,751 --> 00:18:29,460
and your job is to
be my watchdog.
378
00:18:29,584 --> 00:18:32,335
Do you think I'm going to call
you at 6:15 in the morning?
379
00:18:32,375 --> 00:18:35,251
And oh, by the way, if you
want to send me something,
380
00:18:35,292 --> 00:18:38,001
I've got this special back
line over here at the FDA.
381
00:18:38,068 --> 00:18:40,110
Send it through
back channels, you know,
382
00:18:40,167 --> 00:18:42,085
so other people don't get it
383
00:18:42,167 --> 00:18:44,918
just feed me this
info on the QT.
384
00:18:45,209 --> 00:18:46,918
I mean it's extraordinary.
385
00:18:47,375 --> 00:18:49,792
- Lilly's own secret
files implicate
386
00:18:49,834 --> 00:18:54,168
the FDA's Paul Leber, Robert
Temple and Thomas Laughren
387
00:18:54,292 --> 00:18:56,126
as being complicit
in a scheme to
388
00:18:56,209 --> 00:18:58,835
whitewash the dark
facts about Prozac.
389
00:18:59,584 --> 00:19:01,834
There are some very
telling documents
390
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,209
that show the cosy relationship
between FDA officials
391
00:19:06,334 --> 00:19:10,085
and Eli Lilly in those early
years, in the early 1990s.
392
00:19:10,501 --> 00:19:13,793
Lilly employees or
Lilly personnel
393
00:19:13,876 --> 00:19:18,460
referring to certain members of
FDA as our friend in the FDA.
394
00:19:18,584 --> 00:19:20,460
they're our defender.
395
00:19:20,918 --> 00:19:25,377
They were working hard to
get over this suicide issue
396
00:19:25,417 --> 00:19:27,500
and they referred to
the suicide issue
397
00:19:27,542 --> 00:19:29,959
as a public relations problem.
398
00:19:30,209 --> 00:19:33,626
- Eli Lilly has been called
The House That Prozac Built.
399
00:19:33,709 --> 00:19:35,543
Before the drug was introduced,
400
00:19:35,667 --> 00:19:39,001
Lilly reported earnings
of 600 million dollars annually.
401
00:19:39,083 --> 00:19:41,250
Prozac changed Lilly's fortunes,
402
00:19:41,334 --> 00:19:44,210
and the company banked at
least 21 billion dollars
403
00:19:44,334 --> 00:19:47,584
in profits from the drug over
the life of their patent.
404
00:19:49,459 --> 00:19:53,793
[pop music]
405
00:19:54,821 --> 00:19:56,446
- When I say to some people,
406
00:19:56,459 --> 00:19:58,584
prescriptions drugs are
the fourth leading
407
00:19:58,626 --> 00:20:00,168
cause of death in our society,
408
00:20:00,209 --> 00:20:01,960
that seems to be
the dividing line.
409
00:20:02,042 --> 00:20:04,292
There's some people who
already know it's true,
410
00:20:04,375 --> 00:20:06,375
who have read about
it and understand it.
411
00:20:06,417 --> 00:20:08,001
Then there's others who think,
412
00:20:08,042 --> 00:20:10,125
Oh, that's a myth.
That can't be true.
413
00:20:10,292 --> 00:20:13,417
They simply can't conceive of
that, so they stop listening.
414
00:20:13,626 --> 00:20:16,709
- Terence Young is a Member
of Parliament in Canada,
415
00:20:16,834 --> 00:20:20,293
serving Oakville, Ontario,
just outside of Toronto.
416
00:20:20,584 --> 00:20:22,460
After a prescription drug caused
417
00:20:22,542 --> 00:20:24,376
the death of his
daughter Vanessa,
418
00:20:24,459 --> 00:20:27,501
he founded an advocacy
group, Drug Safety Canada.
419
00:20:27,709 --> 00:20:29,460
Vanessa collapsed
in front of me.
420
00:20:29,626 --> 00:20:33,626
Her heart had stopped, basically
as she stood up to go upstairs.
421
00:20:34,042 --> 00:20:36,876
When you lose a child your
world is upside down.
422
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,167
I was thrown into a
study of medicine,
423
00:20:40,542 --> 00:20:44,709
of medical jargon, of how the
health care system works
424
00:20:44,959 --> 00:20:46,626
and when it doesn't work.
425
00:20:47,042 --> 00:20:50,668
And I didn't ask for it, but
it was my way of dealing
426
00:20:50,709 --> 00:20:52,376
with the loss of Vanessa.
427
00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:55,502
So it was, in a sense,
my way of grieving.
428
00:20:55,834 --> 00:20:56,917
And, um...
429
00:20:57,167 --> 00:20:59,918
It started the day she died.
430
00:21:00,167 --> 00:21:02,626
- For five years, Young
investigated the
431
00:21:02,751 --> 00:21:05,043
practices of the medical
and drug industries.
432
00:21:05,167 --> 00:21:09,167
And in doing so, he says, he
realized how Pharma's influence
433
00:21:09,292 --> 00:21:12,542
had permeated every construct
of modern society.
434
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,334
They find a way to create
a financial interest
435
00:21:16,375 --> 00:21:18,758
in every institution
in our society
436
00:21:18,834 --> 00:21:20,752
that we rely on for
critical thought.
437
00:21:20,876 --> 00:21:23,752
They have money in our
universities, in our colleges,
438
00:21:23,792 --> 00:21:26,334
in our hospital
boards, in the media,
439
00:21:26,459 --> 00:21:28,251
and they almost always win.
440
00:21:28,448 --> 00:21:29,906
- The loss of his daughter,
441
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,250
coupled with the shocking
truths he uncovered
442
00:21:32,375 --> 00:21:34,084
through his medical research,
443
00:21:34,167 --> 00:21:36,766
led him to write Death
By Prescription
444
00:21:36,876 --> 00:21:39,126
and become one of
Canada's most ardent
445
00:21:39,209 --> 00:21:41,376
proponents of informed choice.
446
00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:45,794
- GlaxoSmithKline just
paid the largest fine
447
00:21:46,042 --> 00:21:47,751
in the history of
the United States
448
00:21:47,802 --> 00:21:50,678
related to fraud and criminal
acts for a drug company.
449
00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:54,376
They paid 3 billion dollars
for illegal marketing
450
00:21:54,459 --> 00:21:58,001
of Paxil, Wellbutrin, and
Avandia,
451
00:21:58,167 --> 00:22:01,417
Paxil and Avandia both having
been drugs that caused
452
00:22:01,501 --> 00:22:04,210
a lot of deaths due to
adverse drug reactions.
453
00:22:04,375 --> 00:22:06,667
And they paid it in cash.
454
00:22:07,417 --> 00:22:11,335
This action constitutes the
largest healthcare settlement
455
00:22:11,459 --> 00:22:13,126
in United States history.
456
00:22:13,209 --> 00:22:15,085
It was in their business plan.
457
00:22:15,167 --> 00:22:16,709
Because those three drugs,
458
00:22:16,792 --> 00:22:19,959
in the years involved sold
25 billion dollars worth.
459
00:22:20,083 --> 00:22:22,875
And the drugs are marked up
in the thousands of percent.
460
00:22:23,042 --> 00:22:27,042
GSK distributed Paxil with
false and misleading labelling.
461
00:22:27,459 --> 00:22:31,709
What GSK did was encourage the
use of Paxil for children
462
00:22:31,792 --> 00:22:33,710
who are dealing with depression,
463
00:22:33,918 --> 00:22:37,544
with false messages about
safety and effectiveness.
464
00:22:38,042 --> 00:22:40,376
This unlawful promotion
put children at risk
465
00:22:40,501 --> 00:22:42,876
of taking drugs
that were unproven
466
00:22:42,959 --> 00:22:44,626
to be effective for them,
467
00:22:44,751 --> 00:22:47,855
and have been shown to
increase the risk of suicide.
468
00:22:47,959 --> 00:22:51,209
- These fraudulent practices
were locked away for decades,
469
00:22:51,334 --> 00:22:53,918
protected by
institutions and doctors
470
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,042
and the drug companies
themselves.
471
00:22:56,083 --> 00:22:57,959
Psychiatric and
scientific ethics
472
00:22:58,042 --> 00:23:00,751
were cast aside in
exchange for profits.
473
00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:04,668
No one went to jail and
real people paid the price.
474
00:23:06,083 --> 00:23:12,001
[singing Oh Danny Boy]
475
00:23:17,209 --> 00:23:19,751
Brennan wore his
heart on his sleeve.
476
00:23:20,042 --> 00:23:23,292
He just adored
social situations.
477
00:23:23,375 --> 00:23:26,126
He loved to sing from
a very young age,
478
00:23:26,209 --> 00:23:30,751
music was part of our life
and part of what he adored.
479
00:23:30,918 --> 00:23:33,794
To the point where one of the
nicest memories we have,
480
00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:37,043
was he was at Peggy's
Cove with his aunt Meryl
481
00:23:37,125 --> 00:23:39,250
and decided at the gift shop
482
00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:41,626
that he would sing Danny Boy
483
00:23:41,834 --> 00:23:44,876
to all the senior citizens
on the bus tour there
484
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,626
and just broke out into song
485
00:23:46,751 --> 00:23:49,669
and had his own little
audience at Peggy's Cove.
486
00:23:50,167 --> 00:23:52,834
[singing Oh Danny Boy]
487
00:23:55,584 --> 00:23:59,751
Yeah, what I miss most about
Brennan is, he came in,
488
00:23:59,876 --> 00:24:01,460
he'd always give me a hug.
489
00:24:01,542 --> 00:24:03,126
Hey dad, how're you doing?
490
00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:05,292
Give me a hug. I still
think to this day
491
00:24:05,334 --> 00:24:07,210
he's going to walk
through the door.
492
00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:09,292
We were driving,
not too long ago,
493
00:24:09,292 --> 00:24:11,918
Nancy, myself and our
other son Hayden,
494
00:24:12,042 --> 00:24:14,793
and I looked in the back
seat and Hayden was sleeping,
495
00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:17,210
and I looked to see
if Brennan was there.
496
00:24:17,334 --> 00:24:20,001
Just out of habit, to see
if he was sleeping too.
497
00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:24,126
I saw Brennan walk out of this
house, he was very robotic.
498
00:24:24,417 --> 00:24:26,043
Brennan, where you going?
499
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:28,029
It's okay mum, I
just got to go.
500
00:24:28,125 --> 00:24:29,500
Puts on his winter coat.
501
00:24:29,542 --> 00:24:31,126
Brennan, it's hot out today.
502
00:24:31,209 --> 00:24:33,043
It's okay mum, I
just got to go.
503
00:24:33,125 --> 00:24:34,375
Puts on his winter hat.
504
00:24:34,501 --> 00:24:37,252
I said, Brennan, It's hot out
today you won't need that.
505
00:24:37,334 --> 00:24:39,210
It's okay mum, I
just got to go.
506
00:24:39,292 --> 00:24:41,834
And I said, well, I need
you here for a minute.
507
00:24:41,918 --> 00:24:43,918
No, it's okay mum,
I just got to go.
508
00:24:43,959 --> 00:24:45,710
And that's all he
could say to me,
509
00:24:45,834 --> 00:24:49,043
and this was a child who
was very articulate,
510
00:24:49,501 --> 00:24:53,127
who was so verbose that
sometimes you would just say
511
00:24:53,459 --> 00:24:56,001
okay, okay, enough,
enough already.
512
00:24:56,292 --> 00:24:58,168
- Four days prior,
Brennan went to
513
00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:00,250
the family doctor
with a chest cold
514
00:25:00,375 --> 00:25:03,209
and inexplicably came
home with a sample pack
515
00:25:03,292 --> 00:25:05,375
of the antidepressant Cipralex.
516
00:25:05,626 --> 00:25:07,544
At the time of his
disappearance,
517
00:25:07,709 --> 00:25:11,043
he was exhibiting the
classic signs of Akathisia.
518
00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:14,500
When Brennan went missing
I drove the roads
519
00:25:14,542 --> 00:25:17,834
for hours just north of here.
520
00:25:17,959 --> 00:25:21,543
And I did every side road,
every conservation area,
521
00:25:21,584 --> 00:25:23,709
every lane way looking for him.
522
00:25:23,745 --> 00:25:25,662
One of the things
that he didn't have
523
00:25:25,792 --> 00:25:27,376
was a great sense of direction.
524
00:25:27,417 --> 00:25:29,918
I thought maybe he had gone
for a hike in the bush
525
00:25:29,959 --> 00:25:32,710
and got turned around and
couldn't find his way out,
526
00:25:32,766 --> 00:25:34,224
and I went looking for him.
527
00:25:34,292 --> 00:25:36,735
that's what was going through
my mind the whole time.
528
00:25:36,834 --> 00:25:39,168
I let him go out
the door
529
00:25:41,042 --> 00:25:43,709
and that was the last
time I saw him alive.
530
00:25:46,417 --> 00:25:49,209
And he bought his rope
from a local store
531
00:25:50,626 --> 00:25:52,793
and drove to a
conservation area,
532
00:25:54,792 --> 00:25:56,293
texted us,
533
00:25:57,125 --> 00:25:58,876
and then hanged himself.
534
00:25:59,709 --> 00:26:02,043
- Before long,
other teens across
535
00:26:02,167 --> 00:26:04,709
the Canadian province
of Ontario were dying,
536
00:26:04,751 --> 00:26:06,297
just like Brennan did.
537
00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:09,876
For Terence Young, the problem
hit close to home again,
538
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,083
when friends and constituents
faced the same horror
539
00:26:13,209 --> 00:26:15,043
he and the McCartneys had.
540
00:26:15,417 --> 00:26:17,459
My wife called my son
Hart to the phone
541
00:26:17,501 --> 00:26:19,168
and we heard him say a few words
542
00:26:19,250 --> 00:26:22,196
and he banged the phone
down and ran upstairs,
543
00:26:22,335 --> 00:26:23,544
obviously quite upset.
544
00:26:23,658 --> 00:26:25,534
We went and said,
What happened?
545
00:26:25,555 --> 00:26:27,459
he said, Sara Carlin
hanged herself.
546
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:29,675
And we had met Sara,
who was 18 years old,
547
00:26:29,751 --> 00:26:31,751
just a few weeks before
on our back deck,
548
00:26:31,792 --> 00:26:34,376
they were part of the same
social group in Oakville.
549
00:26:34,459 --> 00:26:36,126
They'd play guitar
and sing songs
550
00:26:36,167 --> 00:26:37,584
and do karaoke or whatever.
551
00:26:38,542 --> 00:26:40,792
[piano and singing]
552
00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:52,877
Because of my own research the
first thing I thought about
553
00:26:52,959 --> 00:26:55,626
when an otherwise healthy
young person dies is,
554
00:26:55,751 --> 00:26:58,126
Was a prescription
drug involved?
555
00:26:58,292 --> 00:26:59,751
And of course it was.
556
00:26:59,834 --> 00:27:02,501
In fact, there is no doubt
in my mind that Paxil
557
00:27:02,584 --> 00:27:04,959
and withdrawing from
Paxil was the cause
558
00:27:05,042 --> 00:27:07,834
of Sara Carlin's
demise, her suicide.
559
00:27:08,459 --> 00:27:11,960
She started on this drug
somewhere around January.
560
00:27:12,375 --> 00:27:16,042
And these things
make you unafraid.
561
00:27:16,125 --> 00:27:20,584
They make you do things
you wouldn't do normally.
562
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,709
They make you...
563
00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:27,793
able to put a rope around
your neck and hang yourself.
564
00:27:28,751 --> 00:27:30,960
A young woman hanging herself is
565
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,667
an extremely rare
thing to happen.
566
00:27:34,083 --> 00:27:37,417
She went home one Saturday night
at two o'clock in the morning,
567
00:27:37,501 --> 00:27:41,002
took off her make-up and hanged
herself in her parents basement.
568
00:27:41,501 --> 00:27:44,043
I reached out to Terence
at one point because
569
00:27:44,125 --> 00:27:46,792
I was in contact with
the Coroner's office.
570
00:27:46,918 --> 00:27:49,168
I was starting to put
the pieces together.
571
00:27:49,292 --> 00:27:52,001
It wasn't until after
Sara's death that
572
00:27:52,083 --> 00:27:54,458
we actually started
to connect the dots.
573
00:27:54,584 --> 00:27:56,126
We're bereaved fathers,
574
00:27:56,250 --> 00:27:58,876
we have a great connection
and with Terence's help,
575
00:27:58,959 --> 00:28:00,126
we got the inquest.
576
00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:02,209
The doctors wouldn't
talk to us after.
577
00:28:02,292 --> 00:28:04,375
We fought hard for
an inquest because
578
00:28:04,417 --> 00:28:07,667
we needed to understand,
and after Sara had died,
579
00:28:07,709 --> 00:28:10,126
then we started doing
research on the drug.
580
00:28:10,167 --> 00:28:12,542
that's when we really
found out about the drug.
581
00:28:12,709 --> 00:28:16,251
that's the first time that
we realized that Paxil,
582
00:28:16,375 --> 00:28:20,584
one of the side effects
was suicidal thinking.
583
00:28:20,876 --> 00:28:23,668
Everyone told us it's
not going to happen,
584
00:28:23,918 --> 00:28:26,627
you'll never get an inquest
on a prescription drug.
585
00:28:26,876 --> 00:28:29,585
So it goes to show you what
a couple of Dads can do.
586
00:28:29,792 --> 00:28:31,459
I worked with Sara's dad, Neil.
587
00:28:31,501 --> 00:28:33,501
We pushed very hard
to get an inquest.
588
00:28:33,584 --> 00:28:36,126
Um, I asked as Chair
of Drug Safety Canada
589
00:28:36,250 --> 00:28:39,168
to be party to that inquest
and I was turned down.
590
00:28:39,709 --> 00:28:42,918
But the coroner did allow
me to be an expert witness
591
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000
on drug communications,
which I did.
592
00:28:46,542 --> 00:28:49,209
There's a videotape of
the coroner's counsel
593
00:28:49,292 --> 00:28:52,180
saying on the very first
day of the inquest,
594
00:28:52,304 --> 00:28:54,471
We will show that Paxil did not
595
00:28:54,542 --> 00:28:56,501
"play a part in Sara
Carlin's death.
596
00:28:56,667 --> 00:28:59,667
Well, the whole point of
the inquest was to see
597
00:28:59,709 --> 00:29:02,751
whether or not antidepressants
played a part in Sara's death!
598
00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:06,126
The courts acknowledge
that this medication
599
00:29:06,292 --> 00:29:10,751
can increase thoughts of suicide
in particular patients,
600
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,918
but they don't think
the medication
601
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,083
played a role in
Sara Carlin's death.
602
00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:18,032
- The Coroner in Ontario
resisted every request
603
00:29:18,125 --> 00:29:19,834
by the Carlin's to get the truth
604
00:29:19,892 --> 00:29:21,643
about the death
of their daughter.
605
00:29:21,667 --> 00:29:24,834
But the Carlin's were willing
to risk everything to get it.
606
00:29:24,959 --> 00:29:27,805
We basically mortgaged
our home to the hilt
607
00:29:27,863 --> 00:29:29,780
to try and get some answers,
608
00:29:29,834 --> 00:29:34,243
but to me, it was worth it to
have that doctor up on the stand
609
00:29:34,334 --> 00:29:35,918
and the lawyer asked him,
610
00:29:36,042 --> 00:29:39,501
Did you tell Sara
that Paxil might
611
00:29:39,584 --> 00:29:42,085
cause her to want
to kill herself?
612
00:29:43,709 --> 00:29:45,627
And he said, No, I didn't.
613
00:29:46,709 --> 00:29:48,918
Why didn't you tell her that?
614
00:29:49,042 --> 00:29:52,376
Well because, he said, she
wouldn't have taken it.
615
00:29:53,626 --> 00:29:55,668
Did you tell her parents?
"No."
616
00:29:56,083 --> 00:29:58,250
"Did you tell anybody?
No.
617
00:29:58,501 --> 00:30:01,293
Coroners see the suicides;
618
00:30:02,667 --> 00:30:04,376
investigate the suicides.
619
00:30:04,501 --> 00:30:06,501
Coroners don't want
to do anything.
620
00:30:06,577 --> 00:30:08,453
Coroners are medical doctors.
621
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,626
The coroners are the first line
of defence for the industry.
622
00:30:13,042 --> 00:30:14,501
- And at the inquest,
623
00:30:14,667 --> 00:30:17,209
the odds were stacked
against the Carlins.
624
00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:19,667
- The jury, I think,
was very courageous.
625
00:30:19,792 --> 00:30:23,334
But they were specifically
instructed by the coroner
626
00:30:23,667 --> 00:30:28,626
that they couldn't actually
find Paxil as a cause.
627
00:30:29,297 --> 00:30:32,089
- The jury made 12 key
recommendations,
628
00:30:32,172 --> 00:30:33,964
these were detailed
recommendations
629
00:30:34,044 --> 00:30:35,419
to prevent similar deaths,
630
00:30:35,459 --> 00:30:37,793
six of them were aimed
at the drug industry
631
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:39,126
and the drug company.
632
00:30:39,209 --> 00:30:42,127
So if they didn't think
that Paxil caused or played
633
00:30:42,209 --> 00:30:44,292
a critical role in
Sara Carlin's death,
634
00:30:44,417 --> 00:30:47,126
they certainly wouldn't have
put six recommendations
635
00:30:47,209 --> 00:30:50,043
aimed at the pharmaceutical
industry in their decision.
636
00:30:50,417 --> 00:30:52,500
It took me a year
to get the strength
637
00:30:52,584 --> 00:30:54,876
to write to the Chief Coroner.
638
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:57,625
I said, you know, It
came to my attention that
639
00:30:57,751 --> 00:31:01,793
"you, in fact, had the
cause of death changed.
640
00:31:01,834 --> 00:31:04,959
I said, how can the
coroner's office
641
00:31:05,042 --> 00:31:07,459
"have such a lack
of transparency?
642
00:31:07,501 --> 00:31:10,002
I received a letter back
basically telling me
643
00:31:10,125 --> 00:31:12,876
that it was criminal offence
to meddle with the jury.
644
00:31:12,959 --> 00:31:15,710
And if I didn't stop meddling
645
00:31:15,751 --> 00:31:18,168
I would be charged
and put in jail.
646
00:31:18,626 --> 00:31:20,335
I believe where
we are right now,
647
00:31:20,417 --> 00:31:22,500
those of us who
understand the true risks
648
00:31:22,542 --> 00:31:25,001
and have been trying to warn
others and make change,
649
00:31:25,083 --> 00:31:26,797
we're at the bleeding edge.
650
00:31:26,834 --> 00:31:28,501
Not the leading
edge, because the
651
00:31:28,584 --> 00:31:30,335
leading edge hasn't
even started yet.
652
00:31:30,417 --> 00:31:31,834
We're at the bleeding edge,
653
00:31:31,876 --> 00:31:34,085
we're the ones they think
we sort of lost it.
654
00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:35,709
I know drug reps
have been telling
655
00:31:35,792 --> 00:31:37,251
people in Ontario for years,
656
00:31:37,292 --> 00:31:39,043
oh this poor guy
lost his daughter,
657
00:31:39,083 --> 00:31:41,292
"he's lost his mind, he's
exaggerating stuff.
658
00:31:41,375 --> 00:31:43,584
Then there's others that
realize I'm not exaggerating.
659
00:31:43,626 --> 00:31:46,668
In fact, the evidence backs it
up. My book has 200 footnotes.
660
00:31:46,709 --> 00:31:48,335
It's totally evidence based.
661
00:31:48,375 --> 00:31:49,792
I've never been challenged.
662
00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:51,835
I've never been threatened
with a lawsuit.
663
00:31:51,918 --> 00:31:53,836
The hurdle is trying
to get people to
664
00:31:53,959 --> 00:31:55,918
believe something
that's so unbelievable.
665
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,959
- Our mission, per Se, is
to be vocal about this,
666
00:32:01,584 --> 00:32:06,001
because if It saves one life,
then it's all worth it.
667
00:32:06,876 --> 00:32:10,959
As much as it, um, every
time we talk about it,
668
00:32:11,083 --> 00:32:13,292
it re-traumatizes us,
669
00:32:14,834 --> 00:32:17,293
makes us relive the experience.
670
00:32:19,292 --> 00:32:22,292
But it is what Brennan would
have wanted us to do.
671
00:32:25,417 --> 00:32:30,335
[music - Danny Boy]
672
00:32:46,501 --> 00:32:48,335
- Were you 240lbs of fury?
673
00:32:48,542 --> 00:32:49,792
Oh Goodness, yes.
674
00:32:50,167 --> 00:32:52,584
And I was not easy to deal with.
675
00:32:53,209 --> 00:32:56,876
My son Joseph at that
time was 15 years of age.
676
00:32:57,209 --> 00:32:58,835
Extremely ill.
677
00:32:59,083 --> 00:33:00,959
- Like, it didn't
matter what it was.
678
00:33:01,042 --> 00:33:02,417
- Very very violent.
679
00:33:02,501 --> 00:33:04,626
- The drop of a pin
would set me off.
680
00:33:04,709 --> 00:33:06,679
- You could actually
say he would be
681
00:33:06,751 --> 00:33:09,210
everything a school yard
shooting is made out of.
682
00:33:09,292 --> 00:33:10,334
[phone rings]
683
00:33:10,417 --> 00:33:12,251
911, where's your emergency?
684
00:33:12,334 --> 00:33:17,085
He was diagnosed with bipolar
effective disorder one.
685
00:33:21,626 --> 00:33:24,793
In the years after Debbie
Stephan drove the family's
686
00:33:24,918 --> 00:33:29,085
1990 Bronco into a raging river
with her children inside,
687
00:33:29,209 --> 00:33:31,793
the mental states of
both Autumn Stringham
688
00:33:31,876 --> 00:33:34,752
and her brother Joseph
Stephan deteriorated.
689
00:33:34,918 --> 00:33:37,794
- They didn't understand what
their Mother was going through,
690
00:33:37,959 --> 00:33:40,001
that would take
her to that point
691
00:33:40,083 --> 00:33:44,083
that she would be prepared to
remove herself from this life,
692
00:33:44,167 --> 00:33:46,167
and all of the
children with her.
693
00:33:46,417 --> 00:33:49,667
- Whether the cause was
genetics or sheer trauma,
694
00:33:49,751 --> 00:33:52,585
they both were diagnosed
with bipolar disorder,
695
00:33:52,667 --> 00:33:54,001
just like their mum.
696
00:33:54,292 --> 00:33:55,709
I was very very down.
697
00:33:56,375 --> 00:34:00,667
You begin to lose hope because
there's no joy in life at all.
698
00:34:01,209 --> 00:34:03,459
There's no happiness
to be found.
699
00:34:03,959 --> 00:34:06,585
And that was the
state of our family.
700
00:34:07,542 --> 00:34:10,625
- Joseph, in particular,
seemed headed for disaster.
701
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,918
He was just a
sweetheart, but, boy,
702
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,042
when he hit puberty,
he really went over,
703
00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:21,500
and became incredibly manic and
incredibly violent in his mania.
704
00:34:21,542 --> 00:34:22,709
He was scary.
705
00:34:22,876 --> 00:34:24,251
My dad was scared.
706
00:34:24,834 --> 00:34:27,668
Joseph was medicated
with lithium.
707
00:34:28,042 --> 00:34:31,918
I believe he was taking
750 milligrams of lithium
708
00:34:32,042 --> 00:34:34,918
and he was up to 900
milligrams of lithium
709
00:34:35,542 --> 00:34:38,209
for a period of time
to try and control it.
710
00:34:38,417 --> 00:34:40,584
Was I having huge mood swings?
711
00:34:40,834 --> 00:34:43,501
Yeah, that stuff definitely
started, I mean,
712
00:34:43,626 --> 00:34:46,626
I'd been through a lot of pain
with the death of my mother
713
00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:49,959
and various events that
happened in my life.
714
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,751
After my mother had
committed suicide,
715
00:34:52,834 --> 00:34:53,959
uh,
716
00:34:54,042 --> 00:34:59,084
I was the most violent
person that I knew of.
717
00:34:59,709 --> 00:35:01,959
I used to wander the
streets at night
718
00:35:02,042 --> 00:35:04,960
and I'd go pick fights
with the local people
719
00:35:05,125 --> 00:35:08,125
and I had this
aluminium bat I'd found
720
00:35:08,209 --> 00:35:11,127
and I beat it against the curb
721
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,876
so it was just
jagged and torn up,
722
00:35:13,959 --> 00:35:16,959
and, you know, that was
my weapon of choice.
723
00:35:17,334 --> 00:35:22,584
And, I mean, I'm lucky I never
touched anybody with that thing,
724
00:35:23,751 --> 00:35:25,876
but that's where it was headed.
725
00:35:25,959 --> 00:35:28,251
I mean, it wouldn't
have been very long
726
00:35:28,375 --> 00:35:30,750
before something
actually happened.
727
00:35:32,584 --> 00:35:34,626
- My children were
already saying to me,
728
00:35:34,751 --> 00:35:35,918
Come on dad.
729
00:35:35,918 --> 00:35:37,960
"You've got to get him
out of the house.
730
00:35:38,042 --> 00:35:39,543
"he's going to kill somebody.
731
00:35:39,584 --> 00:35:41,210
"You've got to do
something, Dad.
732
00:35:41,292 --> 00:35:43,626
It didn't matter what we
threw at this situation,
733
00:35:43,709 --> 00:35:45,293
it wasn't going to get better
734
00:35:45,334 --> 00:35:47,293
and I'm going to lose
him to a suicide,
735
00:35:47,375 --> 00:35:49,834
or he's going to have to
be institutionalized.
736
00:35:49,918 --> 00:35:54,252
- A thousand miles away, Autumn
was also struggling desperately.
737
00:35:54,459 --> 00:35:56,918
Now married with a
child, she, too,
738
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,459
was caught in the grip
of her mother's madness.
739
00:35:59,542 --> 00:36:01,584
- At that point in my life,
740
00:36:01,667 --> 00:36:04,251
I just felt like
everything was ashes.
741
00:36:04,375 --> 00:36:06,667
You know, I'd just lost
my mum to suicide.
742
00:36:06,709 --> 00:36:09,210
My diagnosis had been
upgraded, so now I was
743
00:36:09,292 --> 00:36:12,210
rapid-cycling bipolar one with
schizophrenic tendencies,
744
00:36:12,334 --> 00:36:14,252
which was, it
seemed really dark,
745
00:36:14,334 --> 00:36:16,417
like I wasn't going
to get over that.
746
00:36:16,584 --> 00:36:20,918
And so I had actually
planned to commit suicide.
747
00:36:21,209 --> 00:36:24,292
With one child ingesting
a five-drug cocktail
748
00:36:24,334 --> 00:36:25,960
and contemplating suicide
749
00:36:26,042 --> 00:36:28,751
and the other engulfed
by violent thoughts,
750
00:36:28,834 --> 00:36:31,460
Tony Stephan's family
was under siege.
751
00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:34,792
My daughter at the same time had
752
00:36:34,959 --> 00:36:36,959
been in and out of
the psych ward,
753
00:36:37,125 --> 00:36:41,292
struggling with the same issues
as her mother and her brother
754
00:36:41,417 --> 00:36:44,001
and was on five
different medications.
755
00:36:44,125 --> 00:36:46,751
She had been through major
medication changes.
756
00:36:46,834 --> 00:36:48,084
It wasn't working.
757
00:36:48,709 --> 00:36:51,585
At the very, very best,
it wasn't working.
758
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,667
So, I was left in
a terrible state,
759
00:36:54,792 --> 00:36:57,209
a terrible state where I
had to find an answer,
760
00:36:57,292 --> 00:37:00,043
because you see, my
family was literally
761
00:37:00,125 --> 00:37:02,375
coming unglued before my eyes.
762
00:37:02,626 --> 00:37:04,709
I was going to lose my family.
763
00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:07,043
- Beset by grief and confused by
764
00:37:07,125 --> 00:37:09,084
the cruelty of his
circumstances,
765
00:37:09,292 --> 00:37:13,417
he began to look for answers;
some way out of this madness.
766
00:37:13,626 --> 00:37:15,876
- Sheer and utter desperation.
767
00:37:16,167 --> 00:37:19,751
It was a journey that would
reshape his life forever.
768
00:37:19,918 --> 00:37:23,252
- he started studying everything
that he could about bipolar
769
00:37:23,292 --> 00:37:25,667
and recognizing a
lot of the patterns
770
00:37:25,751 --> 00:37:27,335
that he'd seen with my mum
771
00:37:27,375 --> 00:37:30,293
in all the years that
they've been married, and
772
00:37:30,667 --> 00:37:32,917
I think it really helped him to
773
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,918
see that the needed to
do something about it.
774
00:37:36,083 --> 00:37:37,834
- Do something, but what?
775
00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:40,292
The experts had all weighed in:
776
00:37:40,334 --> 00:37:42,168
both his children
were spiralling
777
00:37:42,209 --> 00:37:43,960
into the same orbit
as their mum
778
00:37:44,083 --> 00:37:46,709
and there seemed little
hope he could save them.
779
00:37:46,792 --> 00:37:49,084
But Stephan resolved
to find an answer
780
00:37:49,167 --> 00:37:52,376
and prevent any further
suicides in his family.
781
00:37:58,250 --> 00:38:00,417
I was at the bottom
of a pit and I
782
00:38:00,709 --> 00:38:03,001
had many different
psychiatrists,
783
00:38:03,167 --> 00:38:07,459
many different hospitals, many
facilities that I had to go to.
784
00:38:07,709 --> 00:38:09,876
And they just kept
handing me pills.
785
00:38:09,959 --> 00:38:13,001
I wouldn't call it angst, I
would just clearly call it hell.
786
00:38:13,083 --> 00:38:15,417
You know, how could
such a beautiful thing
787
00:38:15,459 --> 00:38:18,584
of life, giving birth,
cause such trauma?
788
00:38:19,167 --> 00:38:22,709
I just remember being very
unhappy, very sad and hopeless.
789
00:38:22,834 --> 00:38:25,001
I never thought it would end and
790
00:38:25,083 --> 00:38:27,417
just saw no way
to get out of it.
791
00:38:27,918 --> 00:38:30,752
The drugs made me
completely emotionless;
792
00:38:30,834 --> 00:38:32,335
they made me not care;
793
00:38:32,792 --> 00:38:35,792
I didn't care about
anything around me.
794
00:38:36,167 --> 00:38:38,793
The only thing I saw was my pain
795
00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:42,250
and the drugs made me
numb to anything else.
796
00:38:42,626 --> 00:38:44,918
- I was diagnosed with
Tourette's Syndrome.
797
00:38:44,959 --> 00:38:47,460
So in order to treat
the Tourette Syndrome,
798
00:38:47,501 --> 00:38:49,460
I was put on medications.
799
00:38:49,792 --> 00:38:52,792
When I was little, I would
just have these really violent
800
00:38:52,876 --> 00:38:57,335
mood swings and panic attacks,
insomnia, hypersomnia;
801
00:38:57,375 --> 00:38:59,542
there were periods
where I couldn't eat,
802
00:38:59,626 --> 00:39:01,960
there were periods I
would eat too much.
803
00:39:02,209 --> 00:39:04,376
So, all of these really
confusing things
804
00:39:04,417 --> 00:39:05,459
were happening to me
805
00:39:05,501 --> 00:39:07,252
and I, at that time,
didn't realize
806
00:39:07,292 --> 00:39:09,084
that it was because
of the medication
807
00:39:09,167 --> 00:39:11,751
that I was going through all
these horrible changes.
808
00:39:11,876 --> 00:39:14,418
I will probably never get over
809
00:39:14,542 --> 00:39:18,959
the horrible guilt
and the horrible -
810
00:39:19,042 --> 00:39:22,292
I think that part of her
childhood was stolen from her.
811
00:39:22,667 --> 00:39:26,042
They began to basically
812
00:39:27,918 --> 00:39:30,460
just force me to
take the medication
813
00:39:30,542 --> 00:39:33,584
which made me feel as
though I had been betrayed
814
00:39:33,626 --> 00:39:36,335
by absolutely everybody,
because I felt as though
815
00:39:36,459 --> 00:39:38,918
they were giving me
these toxic things that
816
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,083
were making me sick and
violent and horrible.
817
00:39:43,667 --> 00:39:46,792
I didn't know by her not
wanting to take the medicine
818
00:39:46,876 --> 00:39:48,918
that she was really
trying to say to me,
819
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,792
You know what? This
isn't working.
820
00:39:50,918 --> 00:39:53,210
But what eight year old
can verbalize that?
821
00:39:53,417 --> 00:39:55,918
And the psychiatrist
kept saying to me,
822
00:39:55,959 --> 00:39:58,376
she needs this. She
has to have this,
823
00:39:58,501 --> 00:40:02,626
and the psychiatrist was our
family friend and I trusted him.
824
00:40:03,334 --> 00:40:07,126
They completely put their faith
in this particular psychiatrist
825
00:40:07,667 --> 00:40:12,959
who I don't think had my best
interests in mind at all.
826
00:40:13,292 --> 00:40:16,626
My doctor decided that electric
shock therapy would be good
827
00:40:16,724 --> 00:40:18,308
because I was drug-resistant.
828
00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:22,001
So I mean, we had tried
for almost a year.
829
00:40:22,209 --> 00:40:24,376
He just kept saying,
let's try more drugs.
830
00:40:24,501 --> 00:40:27,210
We'll give you this. We'll do
this. More shock therapy.
831
00:40:27,292 --> 00:40:29,793
Well, really? Like, how
much more can my body take?
832
00:40:29,876 --> 00:40:33,502
I was 100 pounds and dying.
I literally was dying.
833
00:40:34,125 --> 00:40:36,125
My psychiatrist decided that
834
00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:39,126
electric shock would
be the next step,
835
00:40:39,209 --> 00:40:43,001
so I did a series of eight,
836
00:40:43,375 --> 00:40:45,126
so eight sessions of that.
837
00:40:45,542 --> 00:40:47,584
The ECT was a
horrible experience.
838
00:40:47,709 --> 00:40:49,543
I loved going to
school and learning,
839
00:40:49,667 --> 00:40:51,168
I had to drop out of school
840
00:40:51,250 --> 00:40:53,333
and really couldn't
do the things in life
841
00:40:53,375 --> 00:40:55,251
that I'd always done
and wanted to do.
842
00:40:55,501 --> 00:40:57,668
For about 16 years,
843
00:40:57,751 --> 00:41:02,168
I was hospitalized every year
for up to three months.
844
00:41:02,292 --> 00:41:06,043
Finally in the last five
years of my illness,
845
00:41:06,125 --> 00:41:07,792
I... I just said, "no more."
846
00:41:07,876 --> 00:41:10,460
"If you ever take me to the
hospital again," I said,
847
00:41:10,501 --> 00:41:11,584
"I will kill myself.
848
00:41:11,709 --> 00:41:13,876
When my mum would call
him, sort of frantic,
849
00:41:13,959 --> 00:41:15,959
like, Melissa's
having a reaction,
850
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,000
or Melissa's having an
episode of violence,
851
00:41:19,042 --> 00:41:20,876
or Melissa's hurting herself,
852
00:41:20,959 --> 00:41:24,376
he would say, make her
take the medication!
853
00:41:24,542 --> 00:41:27,542
The psychiatrist said,
"If she doesn't listen,
854
00:41:27,584 --> 00:41:29,751
and she doesn't want to
take the medication,
855
00:41:29,876 --> 00:41:31,543
you just call 911
856
00:41:31,584 --> 00:41:33,793
and go over and visit
the psych hospital
857
00:41:33,834 --> 00:41:35,710
because that's
where she'll go."
858
00:41:35,876 --> 00:41:39,085
Gosh, I've got a list of like
20 different medications
859
00:41:39,167 --> 00:41:41,334
I was on by the time
I was about 11.
860
00:41:41,459 --> 00:41:44,709
Um, we just had bags and bags
full of pills and pills,
861
00:41:45,959 --> 00:41:48,877
in massive doses that I
shouldn't have been,
862
00:41:48,959 --> 00:41:50,793
no child should have
been prescribed.
863
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,542
It got to the point where
they prescribed Haldol
864
00:41:53,667 --> 00:41:56,876
and that's when I really got
more concerned than ever.
865
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,292
My mum and my sister
basically found me
866
00:41:59,375 --> 00:42:01,667
in the game room sitting
on the floor like,
867
00:42:01,751 --> 00:42:04,085
completely zoned-out.
868
00:42:04,209 --> 00:42:06,543
And I just remember
this feeling of,
869
00:42:06,584 --> 00:42:09,335
"I'm going to die, I'm going
to die, I'm going to die."
870
00:42:09,709 --> 00:42:12,251
[singing] And
if she falls,
871
00:42:12,709 --> 00:42:17,709
There will be no one
there to catch her
872
00:42:17,918 --> 00:42:26,127
When she falls, there will
be no one there to catch her
873
00:42:26,751 --> 00:42:30,502
And hold on.
874
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,042
Melissa ended up in
the emergency room.
875
00:42:34,167 --> 00:42:37,959
She had a very serious
psychotic reaction.
876
00:42:38,334 --> 00:42:40,751
I was like, oh, this is
it, I've completely...
877
00:42:40,792 --> 00:42:41,834
gone crazy.
878
00:42:41,959 --> 00:42:44,710
This is insane. I don't, I
don't know who I am anymore.
879
00:42:44,792 --> 00:42:46,293
I don't know what
I'm doing anymore.
880
00:42:46,334 --> 00:42:49,210
I called my paediatrician and
he was there in ten minutes
881
00:42:49,334 --> 00:42:52,876
and he said to the nurse,
"Get her off of that shit."
882
00:42:52,959 --> 00:42:54,293
that's what he said.
883
00:42:54,417 --> 00:42:56,084
- It was a very very low point,
884
00:42:56,209 --> 00:42:58,584
often the case that I
would contemplate suicide
885
00:42:58,667 --> 00:43:01,585
just because I...
886
00:43:01,834 --> 00:43:03,376
didn't know who I was anymore
887
00:43:03,459 --> 00:43:05,668
and, um, all these side effects
888
00:43:05,751 --> 00:43:08,085
that I as experiencing
were so scary.
889
00:43:08,417 --> 00:43:10,876
You don't give a
9-year kid Haldol.
890
00:43:18,584 --> 00:43:21,918
- As millions filled their
psychotropic prescriptions,
891
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,167
most without anything
resembling sound medical advice,
892
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:28,042
other dark and troubling
events kept occurring,
893
00:43:28,167 --> 00:43:30,085
without a whisper of warning.
894
00:43:30,125 --> 00:43:31,167
[phone ringing]
895
00:43:31,292 --> 00:43:32,959
911, what is your emergency?
896
00:43:33,083 --> 00:43:35,917
- ...been shot at West-side
school... middle school.
897
00:43:36,042 --> 00:43:37,125
- Been what?
898
00:43:37,125 --> 00:43:39,043
- Been shot at West-side
middle school.
899
00:43:39,125 --> 00:43:40,167
- OK.
900
00:43:40,209 --> 00:43:42,334
- We need an ambulance
as soon as possible
901
00:43:42,375 --> 00:43:44,667
- OK. Do you know who's
done the shooting?
902
00:43:45,876 --> 00:43:48,543
- Every time we get one of
these horrible killings,
903
00:43:48,709 --> 00:43:52,126
mass murder, some will take
advantage of that to say,
904
00:43:52,209 --> 00:43:54,376
look, we need more
forced treatment.
905
00:43:54,417 --> 00:43:56,500
What we really need
to investigate
906
00:43:56,626 --> 00:43:58,585
is what role are
psychiatric drugs
907
00:43:58,667 --> 00:44:01,001
playing in such mass killings?
908
00:44:01,167 --> 00:44:03,043
Are people coming off drugs?
909
00:44:03,167 --> 00:44:06,501
Are they on the drugs and
experiencing akathisia?
910
00:44:11,042 --> 00:44:13,960
And there's plenty of evidence
in the research literature
911
00:44:14,125 --> 00:44:16,500
in the way that actually
psychiatric drugs can
912
00:44:16,584 --> 00:44:18,418
lend themselves
to violent actions.
913
00:44:18,501 --> 00:44:21,168
One, You can have
this inner-agitation.
914
00:44:21,417 --> 00:44:24,293
Two, coming off, you can have
a worsening of symptoms,
915
00:44:24,334 --> 00:44:26,168
and the third part
is, these drugs
916
00:44:26,292 --> 00:44:28,709
can diminish frontal
lobe activity,
917
00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:31,710
the very part of the brain
that when you get a really
918
00:44:31,876 --> 00:44:34,794
bad idea like taking a gun
and going into a school
919
00:44:34,876 --> 00:44:36,418
that's the part of your brain
920
00:44:36,501 --> 00:44:38,210
that's supposed to
kick in and say,
921
00:44:38,334 --> 00:44:41,126
that's a really evil
idea, don't do it.
922
00:44:41,375 --> 00:44:44,251
But these drugs will
diminish that activity.
923
00:44:44,334 --> 00:44:47,293
Every time there is some
bizarre act of violence
924
00:44:47,375 --> 00:44:49,126
in the United States or Canada,
925
00:44:49,167 --> 00:44:51,584
like a school shooting
or mass shooting,
926
00:44:51,792 --> 00:44:56,418
it is so difficult to find
any mention if the shooter
927
00:44:56,459 --> 00:44:59,584
was on anti-psychotics or
antidepressant drugs.
928
00:44:59,876 --> 00:45:02,585
And yet in every case
I've been able to find,
929
00:45:02,667 --> 00:45:04,876
the person who was
shooting was either
930
00:45:04,959 --> 00:45:06,334
on an antidepressant drug
931
00:45:06,375 --> 00:45:09,126
or had recently withdrawn
from an antidepressant drug.
932
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:12,084
And so there is some
kind of real correlation
933
00:45:12,250 --> 00:45:14,542
which no one is
properly investigating.
934
00:45:20,667 --> 00:45:22,626
- As part of the
research for his book
935
00:45:22,751 --> 00:45:24,460
called The Book of Woe,
936
00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:27,084
Gary Greenberg was embedded
with psychiatrists
937
00:45:27,167 --> 00:45:29,292
as they debated the
new edition of the
938
00:45:29,375 --> 00:45:32,584
Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual of Mental Disorders,
939
00:45:32,584 --> 00:45:34,335
the DSM-5.
940
00:45:34,626 --> 00:45:37,709
All along, It's been
clear that the DSM
941
00:45:37,834 --> 00:45:40,251
is essentially a
work of fiction.
942
00:45:40,626 --> 00:45:45,668
It's the way psychiatrists
have of saying that
943
00:45:45,709 --> 00:45:48,001
if there are mental disorders,
944
00:45:48,042 --> 00:45:49,960
if they exist in nature the way
945
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,417
that illnesses like
Diabetes exist,
946
00:45:52,501 --> 00:45:54,419
then these are what they are.
947
00:45:54,834 --> 00:45:57,501
Changing the way we
understand ourselves,
948
00:45:57,626 --> 00:46:00,585
is intimately related
to the development
949
00:46:00,709 --> 00:46:03,751
of the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual.
950
00:46:03,959 --> 00:46:06,501
The DSM is often
referred to as
951
00:46:06,542 --> 00:46:08,834
the Bible of
psychiatric disorders.
952
00:46:08,959 --> 00:46:11,334
It is the quintessential
diagnostic instrument.
953
00:46:11,459 --> 00:46:13,793
Over 400,000 mental
health professionals
954
00:46:13,834 --> 00:46:15,876
in the United
States use the DSM,
955
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,667
and in order to get 3rd
party reimbursement,
956
00:46:19,792 --> 00:46:22,042
one has to have a DSM diagnosis.
957
00:46:22,209 --> 00:46:24,710
So the DSM is extremely
instrumental.
958
00:46:25,167 --> 00:46:28,709
- In 2005, two
respected academics,
959
00:46:28,792 --> 00:46:30,875
Lisa Cosgrove of UMass-Boston
960
00:46:31,042 --> 00:46:32,960
and Sheldon Krimsky of Tufts,
961
00:46:33,083 --> 00:46:36,250
released their investigation
into conflicts-of-interest
962
00:46:36,375 --> 00:46:40,458
between DSM-4 panel members and
the pharmaceutical industry.
963
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,792
- I think the data really
speak for themselves.
964
00:46:43,834 --> 00:46:47,585
The strongest statistics include
the panel members for
965
00:46:47,626 --> 00:46:49,335
the mood disorders
and schizophrenia
966
00:46:49,375 --> 00:46:50,500
and psychotic disorders.
967
00:46:50,626 --> 00:46:52,918
A hundred percent of
those panel members
968
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,334
and yes, that's right,
every single panel member
969
00:46:55,375 --> 00:46:58,334
has financial associations with
the pharmaceutical industry.
970
00:46:58,417 --> 00:47:02,084
And if you look at it in terms
of the sheer amount of money,
971
00:47:02,125 --> 00:47:06,417
um, the antidepressant market
and the anti-psychotic markets
972
00:47:06,501 --> 00:47:09,377
are the fourth and fifth
leading therapy classes
973
00:47:09,501 --> 00:47:11,876
of drugs with annual sales
974
00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:14,543
of 20 billion and 14
billion respectively.
975
00:47:14,667 --> 00:47:17,834
You know, the argument is well
we're getting the best people;
976
00:47:17,876 --> 00:47:20,876
the best people are
consulting for the industry,
977
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,918
and therefore, the concept of
978
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,292
disinterestedness is
completely destroyed.
979
00:47:25,334 --> 00:47:27,876
And it's a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
980
00:47:27,959 --> 00:47:31,918
If you set up the system
so that you permit people
981
00:47:32,042 --> 00:47:36,001
with conflictual relationships
to be on committees
982
00:47:37,209 --> 00:47:39,543
whose decisions will have
983
00:47:39,626 --> 00:47:42,709
financial impacts
on an industry,
984
00:47:43,334 --> 00:47:45,709
then the whole thing
is running on
985
00:47:45,792 --> 00:47:49,959
its own cycle of self-interest.
986
00:47:50,375 --> 00:47:53,251
So there are 170
DSM panel members.
987
00:47:53,292 --> 00:47:56,168
That is the total inclusive
of all the working groups.
988
00:47:56,417 --> 00:47:59,001
Of those 170 panel members,
989
00:47:59,083 --> 00:48:03,166
56 percent had at least
one financial association
990
00:48:03,209 --> 00:48:05,209
with a pharmaceutical company.
991
00:48:05,375 --> 00:48:08,500
- Embedded with the new
DSM-5 working committee,
992
00:48:08,542 --> 00:48:10,625
Gary Greenberg found
himself caught
993
00:48:10,667 --> 00:48:12,792
in a fire fight of
words and passions
994
00:48:12,876 --> 00:48:15,001
over the future of psychiatry.
995
00:48:15,209 --> 00:48:18,876
When the DSM is revised,
there are fights,
996
00:48:18,918 --> 00:48:20,836
and in this
particular case there
997
00:48:20,876 --> 00:48:22,668
were some really intense fights,
998
00:48:22,709 --> 00:48:25,918
because there was an
attempt on the part
999
00:48:25,959 --> 00:48:28,168
of the American
Psychiatric Association
1000
00:48:28,250 --> 00:48:31,333
to finally come up with
the DSM to end all DSMs.
1001
00:48:31,501 --> 00:48:35,210
Now you can't expect to
revise a staple like the DSM
1002
00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:37,333
for the first time in 20 years
1003
00:48:37,417 --> 00:48:39,417
without experiencing
some glitches,
1004
00:48:39,459 --> 00:48:41,626
and believe me, we had
more than our share.
1005
00:48:41,667 --> 00:48:43,876
It was like being in
the middle of a war.
1006
00:48:44,042 --> 00:48:46,001
But the APA kept its composure,
1007
00:48:46,083 --> 00:48:48,625
rallied when attacked
by our enemies,
1008
00:48:48,918 --> 00:48:51,460
and occasionally by
our friends, too,
1009
00:48:51,751 --> 00:48:54,876
to make the DSM a
resounding success.
1010
00:48:55,459 --> 00:48:57,043
And uh, it didn't work.
1011
00:48:57,501 --> 00:49:01,168
They failed and they found
it very difficult to
1012
00:49:01,250 --> 00:49:05,250
walk back from the
promises that they'd made.
1013
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,375
And the people that took them
on weren't the scientologists,
1014
00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:12,126
they were psychiatrists.
1015
00:49:12,250 --> 00:49:15,625
One of them, in fact, had
written the last DSM.
1016
00:49:16,375 --> 00:49:20,001
- This political infighting
left millions of consumers
1017
00:49:20,083 --> 00:49:22,750
with psychiatric
diagnoses in limbo.
1018
00:49:23,083 --> 00:49:26,500
The DSM decision-makers may
not have considered that
1019
00:49:26,584 --> 00:49:30,709
but their actions over the last
30 years have reverberated
1020
00:49:30,834 --> 00:49:33,168
in sad and profound ways.
1021
00:49:33,375 --> 00:49:35,709
- Pretend that I'm
the Glaxo CEO.
1022
00:49:35,751 --> 00:49:38,001
What would you
like to say to me?
1023
00:49:44,626 --> 00:49:46,168
[chuckles]
1024
00:49:46,459 --> 00:49:47,459
Yeah...
1025
00:49:49,667 --> 00:49:52,418
- For David Carmichael,
there are good reasons
1026
00:49:52,501 --> 00:49:54,876
why this is is not an
easy question to answer.
1027
00:49:55,209 --> 00:49:57,543
- My Dad and I have
always been really close.
1028
00:49:57,626 --> 00:50:00,043
Um, you know, both my
parents did everything
1029
00:50:00,125 --> 00:50:01,417
for my brother and I.
1030
00:50:01,459 --> 00:50:04,210
If there was, you know, a
sport we wanted to pick up,
1031
00:50:04,292 --> 00:50:07,251
or if there was something we
wanted to do, we did everything.
1032
00:50:07,292 --> 00:50:10,417
My dad built my brother a
half pipe in our backyard
1033
00:50:10,459 --> 00:50:13,043
and it was like a
professionally built half pipe.
1034
00:50:13,167 --> 00:50:14,876
Like, this thing was phenomenal.
1035
00:50:14,959 --> 00:50:17,334
And we had kids from all
over the neighbourhood
1036
00:50:17,375 --> 00:50:19,458
come there to ride it
because it was huge.
1037
00:50:19,542 --> 00:50:22,209
There's nothing more
exhilarating than being a dad.
1038
00:50:22,292 --> 00:50:25,168
In everything I've ever done,
it was magical moments.
1039
00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:27,459
Our daughter, Gillian
was born in 1990,
1040
00:50:27,542 --> 00:50:29,542
and our son, Ian
was born in 1992.
1041
00:50:30,083 --> 00:50:33,667
And both my wife and I took a
nurturing approach to parenting.
1042
00:50:33,709 --> 00:50:35,709
They didn't get
everything they wanted,
1043
00:50:35,792 --> 00:50:37,334
but they certainly had
a lot of opportunity
1044
00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:41,209
when they were young.
And it was wonderful.
1045
00:50:41,584 --> 00:50:44,376
My brother got into
dirt jumping as well,
1046
00:50:44,542 --> 00:50:47,917
so my Dad built my brother a
dirt jump at our cottage.
1047
00:50:48,125 --> 00:50:52,542
My brother would just spend
hours out there and he loved it.
1048
00:50:52,918 --> 00:50:56,502
- I remember the deliveries
like they were yesterday.
1049
00:50:56,792 --> 00:50:59,084
I remember the snowstorm
I had to get through
1050
00:50:59,125 --> 00:51:01,500
when Ian was being
delivered in 1992.
1051
00:51:01,542 --> 00:51:04,001
It was December the 14th,
that's when he was born,
1052
00:51:04,083 --> 00:51:06,584
I got a call at the
organization I was working at,
1053
00:51:06,626 --> 00:51:08,085
got home, got in the car.
1054
00:51:08,125 --> 00:51:10,417
He was rushed right
in the delivery room.
1055
00:51:10,501 --> 00:51:12,043
It was a very quick delivery.
1056
00:51:12,083 --> 00:51:14,208
Gillian took over 20 hours.
1057
00:51:15,334 --> 00:51:16,626
Ian was very quick.
1058
00:51:16,834 --> 00:51:18,793
We were the ideal
family on the block
1059
00:51:18,876 --> 00:51:20,794
and I had a lot of
friends who just
1060
00:51:20,834 --> 00:51:22,585
would continuously tell me that,
1061
00:51:22,626 --> 00:51:24,626
that we were a perfect family.
1062
00:51:24,751 --> 00:51:27,876
- The Carmichael's perfect
family began to unhinge
1063
00:51:27,959 --> 00:51:30,918
shortly after David
began taking Paxil.
1064
00:51:30,959 --> 00:51:33,418
I really didn't know very
much about mental illness
1065
00:51:33,501 --> 00:51:35,127
until when I was 45 years old,
1066
00:51:35,167 --> 00:51:36,709
and I had my first
major depression.
1067
00:51:36,751 --> 00:51:38,377
And I was treated with
Paxil and in fact,
1068
00:51:38,417 --> 00:51:39,918
when I look back on it now,
1069
00:51:39,918 --> 00:51:41,544
there's no question
I was a manic
1070
00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:43,502
when I was on Paxil
for the first time.
1071
00:51:43,542 --> 00:51:45,959
That was the very
first time that I
1072
00:51:46,667 --> 00:51:49,168
I ever even looked at the
issues around drugs,
1073
00:51:49,250 --> 00:51:50,917
and side effects of drugs.
1074
00:51:51,375 --> 00:51:54,625
I noticed that there
was a big difference
1075
00:51:54,918 --> 00:51:56,836
before he started
taking medication
1076
00:51:56,876 --> 00:51:59,418
and then while he was
taking the medication.
1077
00:51:59,584 --> 00:52:03,834
I remember him snapping on me
about something very small
1078
00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,835
and I remember him spending
so much time at his office.
1079
00:52:06,918 --> 00:52:10,043
I remember him being...
1080
00:52:10,167 --> 00:52:12,459
just being more quiet and
1081
00:52:12,542 --> 00:52:16,418
not being himself and
looking stressed out, and...
1082
00:52:17,334 --> 00:52:19,876
just looking different.
1083
00:52:20,334 --> 00:52:23,293
You know, when I went to the
doctor I was prescribed Paxil.
1084
00:52:23,375 --> 00:52:25,417
And I had gained a
fair bit of weight,
1085
00:52:25,542 --> 00:52:28,959
I, um, had sexual
dysfunction issues,
1086
00:52:28,959 --> 00:52:31,543
and my resting heart
rate was higher.
1087
00:52:31,876 --> 00:52:33,460
And there was just...
1088
00:52:34,167 --> 00:52:38,376
this tremendous discomfort with
being on that particular drug.
1089
00:52:38,792 --> 00:52:42,459
It really made me wonder, you
know, should I be on it?
1090
00:52:42,667 --> 00:52:44,876
- Like so many who
tumbled into the world
1091
00:52:44,959 --> 00:52:47,001
of antidepressants
without forethought,
1092
00:52:47,083 --> 00:52:50,959
David Carmichael did so unaware
of the potential dangers.
1093
00:52:51,542 --> 00:52:54,792
When I was on Paxil, we had no
idea it could trigger delusions,
1094
00:52:54,876 --> 00:52:57,668
or, none of that was out
in the public domain.
1095
00:52:57,959 --> 00:53:01,168
For so many years, I just
assumed my doctor knew best.
1096
00:53:01,292 --> 00:53:03,584
I learned about the side
effects the hard way.
1097
00:53:03,792 --> 00:53:05,792
It's like I can't
participate in life,
1098
00:53:05,876 --> 00:53:07,043
I'm too busy worrying.
1099
00:53:07,125 --> 00:53:08,959
- When everything happened,
1100
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,209
I had just finished Grade 8.
1101
00:53:11,375 --> 00:53:13,625
For my friends, who
knew my father,
1102
00:53:13,709 --> 00:53:15,959
they just knew that
something was wrong,
1103
00:53:16,042 --> 00:53:19,001
because they knew
who my dad was.
1104
00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:21,959
And you just would never
in a million years think
1105
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,918
that he would do
something that he did.
1106
00:53:25,448 --> 00:53:29,239
Yeah I... parenting was
a high priority of mine,
1107
00:53:29,339 --> 00:53:31,423
to be the best parent possible.
1108
00:53:35,214 --> 00:53:37,673
And to have it end this way
is pretty devastating.
1109
00:53:38,959 --> 00:53:41,751
[slow soulful singing]
1110
00:53:42,933 --> 00:53:47,057
- David Carmichael had been on
60mg of Paxil for two weeks
1111
00:53:47,291 --> 00:53:49,208
when he and Ian set
out for one of
1112
00:53:49,256 --> 00:53:51,464
their favourite
father-son activities:
1113
00:53:51,667 --> 00:53:54,834
a BMX bike competition
in London, Ontario.
1114
00:54:00,648 --> 00:54:02,564
- What I've learned in
this journey is
1115
00:54:02,626 --> 00:54:05,835
I no longer take for
granted even one breath.
1116
00:54:06,501 --> 00:54:08,918
Things get reduced
to the minutes,
1117
00:54:08,959 --> 00:54:12,209
and you know you have the
strength for that minute.
1118
00:54:12,375 --> 00:54:15,042
[girls singing] It's
a whole new world
1119
00:54:15,209 --> 00:54:19,376
and that's the place
I've never been,
1120
00:54:19,584 --> 00:54:23,709
When I'm way up here...
1121
00:54:24,334 --> 00:54:26,417
David and I were
friends in college.
1122
00:54:26,501 --> 00:54:28,335
We were both accounting majors.
1123
00:54:28,375 --> 00:54:30,834
David was that
funny,
1124
00:54:30,918 --> 00:54:33,419
brilliant guy that you
always wanted in your group.
1125
00:54:33,667 --> 00:54:36,543
- David was a guy you'd
want to be around.
1126
00:54:36,876 --> 00:54:38,876
that's about the best
way to explain.
1127
00:54:38,918 --> 00:54:41,043
When you met him,
he was gregarious,
1128
00:54:41,125 --> 00:54:43,917
he was open, he was
funny; he was very witty.
1129
00:54:44,125 --> 00:54:47,500
- My dad was a very
caring Father,
1130
00:54:48,626 --> 00:54:49,835
very funny, too.
1131
00:54:49,876 --> 00:54:52,043
He'd wake me up in
the morning singing
1132
00:54:52,125 --> 00:54:54,959
whatever group I was
into at the time:
1133
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,542
it was Spice Girls
when I was little
1134
00:54:57,918 --> 00:54:59,585
he's a brilliant auditor.
1135
00:54:59,626 --> 00:55:02,043
Auditing for a major
corporation is stressful
1136
00:55:02,125 --> 00:55:04,459
and there's a lot of
things that go with it
1137
00:55:04,501 --> 00:55:06,210
if you want to do
the right thing.
1138
00:55:06,292 --> 00:55:09,126
- David was a guy who,
like any of us,
1139
00:55:09,626 --> 00:55:12,918
had his share of challenges
in life, we all do.
1140
00:55:13,292 --> 00:55:15,334
Especially in a big
financial company,
1141
00:55:15,417 --> 00:55:18,251
there's stresses in our work,
there's pressures.
1142
00:55:18,292 --> 00:55:21,084
Um, you know, we have kids
to raise, bills to pay.
1143
00:55:21,167 --> 00:55:24,001
We went to the psychiatrist
in early 2006 and he said,
1144
00:55:24,042 --> 00:55:25,459
well, what about Prozac?
1145
00:55:25,667 --> 00:55:29,209
- You have a chemical imbalance.
Let's put you on Prozac.
1146
00:55:29,709 --> 00:55:32,168
It's the standard of care.
It's what they do.
1147
00:55:32,292 --> 00:55:35,959
It's almost a marketing
strategy that works, you know?
1148
00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:39,334
It's not my fault.
I have a disease.
1149
00:55:39,918 --> 00:55:44,127
Within days of ingesting Prozac,
David Crespi became troubled.
1150
00:55:44,375 --> 00:55:47,458
Towards the end of just talking
back and forth and he said,
1151
00:55:47,626 --> 00:55:52,377
Do you ever feel like life
is too dark to go on?
1152
00:55:52,584 --> 00:55:55,168
It's crazy. It's not
the way I think.
1153
00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:57,667
Those thoughts aren't
natural to me.
1154
00:55:57,834 --> 00:56:00,834
I recall a few events
from the day before
1155
00:56:00,918 --> 00:56:04,127
that would suggest that
he was going psychotic.
1156
00:56:04,375 --> 00:56:08,709
David was jumping out of the bed
and walking around a throw rug
1157
00:56:08,751 --> 00:56:11,543
and hitting each corner and
then jumping back into bed.
1158
00:56:11,584 --> 00:56:13,460
And I'm going, what
are you doing?
1159
00:56:13,542 --> 00:56:15,126
He goes, it just feels good.
1160
00:56:15,250 --> 00:56:18,001
Well, now I attribute
that to akathisia.
1161
00:56:18,250 --> 00:56:19,625
[police radio]
1162
00:56:19,667 --> 00:56:21,792
Code 6 - 105
North Avenue 52.
1163
00:56:22,209 --> 00:56:24,751
Our tragedy was
January 20, 2006.
1164
00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:28,125
On that day, took all
the kids to school,
1165
00:56:28,167 --> 00:56:29,584
left to go get my haircut,
1166
00:56:29,626 --> 00:56:32,168
left the girls in the care
of their loving father;
1167
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,042
they wanted to spend
time with him.
1168
00:56:34,125 --> 00:56:36,375
When I came back into
the neighbourhood after
1169
00:56:36,459 --> 00:56:38,751
being gone for an hour
and fifteen minutes,
1170
00:56:38,792 --> 00:56:41,959
I saw a police barricade,
and I saw some of my
1171
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,167
very concerned neighbours
coming towards me.
1172
00:56:44,250 --> 00:56:46,417
The police officer asked
my name and he said,
1173
00:56:46,501 --> 00:56:48,751
we're going to need
you in this house
1174
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,083
[phone rings]
1175
00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:51,334
- Police Department.
1176
00:56:51,459 --> 00:56:53,918
- Yes. I just killed my two
daughters.
1177
00:56:55,417 --> 00:56:56,500
- You just what?
1178
00:56:56,584 --> 00:56:58,584
- I just killed
my two daughters.
1179
00:56:59,459 --> 00:57:01,293
I called my dad
in California and
1180
00:57:01,334 --> 00:57:04,417
I made sure my stepmother was
right next to him, and I said,
1181
00:57:04,501 --> 00:57:07,335
you know, Dad, I have to tell
you something really hard."
1182
00:57:07,375 --> 00:57:09,584
I said, "I'm in the back
of a police car and
1183
00:57:09,626 --> 00:57:12,168
I've just been told that David
killed Sam and Tess.
1184
00:57:12,250 --> 00:57:13,584
- What did you do to them?
1185
00:57:13,626 --> 00:57:15,335
- I stabbed them.
- You stabbed them?
1186
00:57:15,417 --> 00:57:16,376
- Yeah.
1187
00:57:16,417 --> 00:57:18,001
- How many times
did you stab them?
1188
00:57:18,125 --> 00:57:19,751
- I don't know. I
don't remember.
1189
00:57:19,751 --> 00:57:21,543
- OK, keep talking
to me, because you
1190
00:57:21,667 --> 00:57:23,418
sound like you're a
little bit tired.
1191
00:57:23,542 --> 00:57:24,584
- This is for real
1192
00:57:24,667 --> 00:57:26,293
- I know, I know It's real, Sir.
1193
00:57:26,375 --> 00:57:28,417
Everybody is on their way, okay?
1194
00:57:28,542 --> 00:57:31,917
Cathy, my stepmother adored Sam
and Tess, as we all did
1195
00:57:32,125 --> 00:57:33,334
started wailing.
1196
00:57:33,417 --> 00:57:36,376
And I could hear her on the
speaker phone and my dad goes,
1197
00:57:36,417 --> 00:57:38,126
Honey, Dave would not do that.
1198
00:57:38,209 --> 00:57:41,085
"David is not like that.
You're mistaken.
1199
00:57:41,250 --> 00:57:44,625
I went, I wish I were, but I'm
in the back of a squad car...
1200
00:57:44,959 --> 00:57:46,460
[siren]
1201
00:57:47,584 --> 00:57:49,335
The Crespi children
were escorted
1202
00:57:49,417 --> 00:57:51,001
from school by the police
1203
00:57:51,042 --> 00:57:54,167
and were told nothing until
Kim arrived at the station.
1204
00:57:54,250 --> 00:57:57,001
- they really thought that
their dad had killed himself.
1205
00:57:57,209 --> 00:58:00,168
- My Mum came in and told us,
1206
00:58:00,334 --> 00:58:05,210
they're telling me that
Dad killed your sisters.
1207
00:58:05,709 --> 00:58:09,251
We had to use the language,
they're telling me ,
1208
00:58:09,417 --> 00:58:13,417
because we couldn't believe that
that's what actually happened.
1209
00:58:14,083 --> 00:58:17,750
- The idea of him killing
Tess and Sam was so foreign,
1210
00:58:18,292 --> 00:58:20,751
but they knew something
had happened.
1211
00:58:20,876 --> 00:58:23,918
And that's how the
whole thing started.
1212
00:58:24,417 --> 00:58:26,918
- I went to the doctor and
I can remember saying,
1213
00:58:26,959 --> 00:58:28,668
I'm afraid I may hurt someone.
1214
00:58:28,709 --> 00:58:32,210
Well she said, You re too
compassionate to do that.
1215
00:58:32,292 --> 00:58:34,210
"that's just the
depression talking.
1216
00:58:34,334 --> 00:58:38,751
Never was anybody saying,
the medicine can do this.
1217
00:58:39,292 --> 00:58:42,459
Psychosis, the drug,
killed our daughters.
1218
00:58:43,083 --> 00:58:46,208
Who I am was chemically altered.
1219
00:58:46,584 --> 00:58:48,168
My Dad in his right mind
1220
00:58:48,250 --> 00:58:50,209
wouldn't have done
anything like this.
1221
00:58:50,292 --> 00:58:53,126
I can remember this battle of
these thoughts aren't real.
1222
00:58:53,209 --> 00:58:56,085
Because when you have a complete
psychotic break like that,
1223
00:58:56,209 --> 00:59:01,418
and you kill two of your most
treasured people in your life,
1224
00:59:01,501 --> 00:59:03,168
people that every other day,
1225
00:59:03,209 --> 00:59:05,085
every other day he would
have died for them.
1226
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:09,751
What I did was done on a
cocktail of legal drugs.
1227
00:59:09,959 --> 00:59:12,626
We were doing what the
doctors told us to do.
1228
00:59:12,709 --> 00:59:14,418
We were being responsible.
1229
00:59:14,542 --> 00:59:18,209
Just because something's legal
doesn't mean It's safe.
1230
00:59:19,417 --> 00:59:22,251
I suspect anybody hearing
my story will go,
1231
00:59:22,334 --> 00:59:24,376
yeah, that's not going
to happen to me,
1232
00:59:24,459 --> 00:59:25,542
but it could.
1233
00:59:25,584 --> 00:59:27,959
If it happened to us, it
could happen to anyone.
1234
00:59:28,042 --> 00:59:29,584
But I know for certain,
1235
00:59:30,034 --> 00:59:33,451
that I know what caused the
death of my daughters.
1236
00:59:33,792 --> 00:59:35,376
I know it was the pills.
1237
00:59:35,918 --> 00:59:37,794
And for all of that,
we're serving
1238
00:59:37,876 --> 00:59:39,543
two back-to-back life sentences.
1239
00:59:41,375 --> 00:59:45,876
[slow soulful singing]
1240
00:59:48,792 --> 00:59:55,376
On July 31st, 2004, I had been
on Paxil for three weeks.
1241
00:59:56,042 --> 00:59:59,584
I took Ian to a hotel room
in London, Ontario and...
1242
01:00:00,209 --> 01:00:01,751
at 3 o'clock in the morning,
1243
01:00:01,792 --> 01:00:03,792
thinking that he had
permanent brain damage,
1244
01:00:03,834 --> 01:00:06,335
that he was in living hell, he
was going to kill my daughter,
1245
01:00:06,417 --> 01:00:08,500
Gillian, and he was going
to harm other kids
1246
01:00:08,542 --> 01:00:10,625
and my wife was going to
have a nervous breakdown,
1247
01:00:10,709 --> 01:00:12,376
which were my five delusions,
1248
01:00:12,459 --> 01:00:13,834
I strangled him,
1249
01:00:13,959 --> 01:00:16,793
and I sat with his body
for six hours until
1250
01:00:16,834 --> 01:00:19,209
I called the police at 9
o'clock in the morning,
1251
01:00:19,292 --> 01:00:21,584
very calmly saying that
I'd committed homicide
1252
01:00:21,667 --> 01:00:24,209
and opened the door for them,
and then I was arrested
1253
01:00:24,292 --> 01:00:26,210
and charged with
first degree murder.
1254
01:00:26,250 --> 01:00:28,209
When the police came
in and arrested me,
1255
01:00:28,292 --> 01:00:30,001
they asked me why didn't I run.
1256
01:00:30,042 --> 01:00:32,042
I said, I wanted to
stay with my son.
1257
01:00:32,083 --> 01:00:34,709
"he's in a better place now.
He was in living hell.
1258
01:00:34,792 --> 01:00:37,251
And I stayed with him
as long as possible.
1259
01:00:37,501 --> 01:00:41,626
- For 14 long days, David
Carmichael was psychotic,
1260
01:00:41,792 --> 01:00:44,501
and suffered drug withdrawals
in his jail cell,
1261
01:00:44,626 --> 01:00:47,377
before awakening to
the ultimate terror.
1262
01:00:47,709 --> 01:00:50,029
- The psychosis
lasted for two weeks
1263
01:00:50,083 --> 01:00:51,917
and after I came out
of my psychosis
1264
01:00:51,959 --> 01:00:54,543
a couple of weeks after
everything happened,
1265
01:00:54,626 --> 01:00:55,835
I was devastated.
1266
01:00:55,876 --> 01:00:57,168
I cried for three days
1267
01:00:57,209 --> 01:01:00,459
in segregation at the London
Middlesex Detention Centre.
1268
01:01:00,542 --> 01:01:02,501
I could not believe
what I had done.
1269
01:01:02,626 --> 01:01:05,502
- Ian was laid to rest
by David's family.
1270
01:01:05,584 --> 01:01:07,709
It would be months
before DNA tests
1271
01:01:07,792 --> 01:01:10,376
indicated that Carmichael's
body was unable
1272
01:01:10,417 --> 01:01:12,792
to metabolize the
Paxil he'd ingested
1273
01:01:12,876 --> 01:01:16,668
and that the drug was the likely
cause of this unthinkable act.
1274
01:01:16,876 --> 01:01:20,085
Dr. Peter Breggin says
he's seen it all before.
1275
01:01:20,417 --> 01:01:26,417
Many people do not have the
array of enzymes in their livers
1276
01:01:26,501 --> 01:01:30,835
to properly destroy SSRI drugs
1277
01:01:30,918 --> 01:01:32,544
when they get in
the bloodstream.
1278
01:01:32,626 --> 01:01:34,668
So the drugs pass
through the liver,
1279
01:01:34,751 --> 01:01:37,085
and they don't get,
quote, "metabolised",
1280
01:01:37,167 --> 01:01:39,209
meaning they don't
get broken down.
1281
01:01:39,417 --> 01:01:44,751
So might get the equivalent
of a 10 mg dose of an SSRI,
1282
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,667
but your blood level
is 30 or 40 mg.
1283
01:01:47,834 --> 01:01:50,251
And there are studies out of
Australia
1284
01:01:50,292 --> 01:01:52,459
correlating the violence
1285
01:01:52,542 --> 01:01:56,001
with the lack of the
enzyme for these drugs.
1286
01:01:56,626 --> 01:01:58,460
The public has no understanding
1287
01:01:58,501 --> 01:02:00,501
of how Paxil or other SSRI
1288
01:02:00,584 --> 01:02:03,126
could trigger a homicidal
psychotic episode
1289
01:02:03,417 --> 01:02:05,084
and they may not care,
1290
01:02:05,667 --> 01:02:08,709
you know, but there is
evidence based on DNA
1291
01:02:08,751 --> 01:02:11,751
that Paxil did cause me
to kill my son, Ian.
1292
01:02:12,709 --> 01:02:15,293
And it's something that
I have to live with.
1293
01:02:15,542 --> 01:02:17,376
Even when I'm out in the public,
1294
01:02:17,417 --> 01:02:19,293
you know, my stigma
is off the chart
1295
01:02:19,375 --> 01:02:21,750
compared to the stigma
around mental illnesses.
1296
01:02:21,959 --> 01:02:24,168
But if people beat
me up emotionally
1297
01:02:24,209 --> 01:02:25,876
when I'm out there, that's fine.
1298
01:02:25,918 --> 01:02:27,460
They'll never beat
me up as much as
1299
01:02:27,501 --> 01:02:28,793
I beat myself up
for a long time.
1300
01:02:28,918 --> 01:02:31,127
- For her part, Gillian, who was
1301
01:02:31,167 --> 01:02:33,250
only 14 when the
tragedy occurred,
1302
01:02:33,292 --> 01:02:35,417
says she grew up the
day she grasped
1303
01:02:35,459 --> 01:02:37,668
what had really
happened to her father.
1304
01:02:37,792 --> 01:02:39,875
I realized who he was before,
1305
01:02:39,918 --> 01:02:42,043
who he was during
the period of time
1306
01:02:42,083 --> 01:02:44,375
that he was taking
the medication,
1307
01:02:44,501 --> 01:02:47,210
and I realized that they
were two different people.
1308
01:02:47,334 --> 01:02:49,668
- David credits Gillian
as the reason he
1309
01:02:49,751 --> 01:02:52,085
did not take his own
life while in prison.
1310
01:02:52,417 --> 01:02:55,043
There were several times
when I was either in jail
1311
01:02:55,083 --> 01:02:57,125
or in a psychiatric
hospital where
1312
01:02:57,209 --> 01:02:59,251
I felt like taking my own life.
1313
01:02:59,292 --> 01:03:01,709
What kept me going was
my daughter, Gillian.
1314
01:03:01,834 --> 01:03:04,585
I had one line and it was,
1315
01:03:04,709 --> 01:03:07,251
I'm a good dad. I'm going
to be a dad again.
1316
01:03:07,334 --> 01:03:08,793
And that was my hope.
1317
01:03:08,876 --> 01:03:12,377
And I know Gillian, whatever she
was doing, wherever she was,
1318
01:03:12,459 --> 01:03:15,709
was thinking that she wanted
her dad back in her life too.
1319
01:03:16,375 --> 01:03:18,001
How can I not accept him back?
1320
01:03:18,042 --> 01:03:20,125
he's, you know, he's
an amazing man.
1321
01:03:20,167 --> 01:03:21,918
he's my father and I love him.
1322
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,667
- David Carmichael was found
1323
01:03:23,667 --> 01:03:26,626
not criminally responsible
for his son's death
1324
01:03:26,751 --> 01:03:28,418
as two psychiatrists,
1325
01:03:28,459 --> 01:03:31,377
one working for the defence
and one for the prosecution,
1326
01:03:31,459 --> 01:03:33,377
both agreed that
he was psychotic
1327
01:03:33,417 --> 01:03:34,918
at the time of the tragedy.
1328
01:03:35,167 --> 01:03:37,376
The public is not going
to care about this.
1329
01:03:37,417 --> 01:03:39,542
You know, no empathy
for me, but I think,
1330
01:03:39,584 --> 01:03:44,251
I'll tell you what the
pain will never go away.
1331
01:03:45,918 --> 01:03:49,710
- Ian was just an amazing person
and he was an amazing brother.
1332
01:03:49,918 --> 01:03:55,252
And he was an amazing
friend and amazing son.
1333
01:03:57,125 --> 01:03:59,876
He just, he had so much life.
1334
01:04:01,417 --> 01:04:02,417
Yeah.
1335
01:04:03,834 --> 01:04:04,834
Sorry.
1336
01:04:06,542 --> 01:04:08,709
- Pretend that I'm
the Glaxo CEO.
1337
01:04:08,751 --> 01:04:11,043
What would you
like to say to me?
1338
01:04:17,709 --> 01:04:18,709
[chuckles]
1339
01:04:19,542 --> 01:04:20,542
Yeah.
1340
01:04:24,876 --> 01:04:27,335
If you were the
GlaxoSmithKline CEO,
1341
01:04:28,417 --> 01:04:29,584
I would like to...
1342
01:04:29,918 --> 01:04:32,877
encourage you to be more honest
with the Canadian public.
1343
01:04:32,918 --> 01:04:34,918
And if there are
serious side effects
1344
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,876
to any one of your drugs,
1345
01:04:37,083 --> 01:04:39,792
it's not just about
sending out notices
1346
01:04:39,876 --> 01:04:42,627
to health care professionals
that many of them never read.
1347
01:04:43,083 --> 01:04:45,667
You've got to go directly
to consumers and
1348
01:04:45,709 --> 01:04:48,335
make them aware of
some of these dangers.
1349
01:04:48,542 --> 01:04:52,376
That's a responsibility that
you have as a drug company.
1350
01:04:56,876 --> 01:04:59,502
- I was only put on for weight
loss - weight loss!
1351
01:04:59,751 --> 01:05:02,418
- My sister did commit
suicide in front of Lindsay...
1352
01:05:02,792 --> 01:05:04,459
- That gun I later learned was
1353
01:05:04,542 --> 01:05:06,376
loaded with hollow
point bullets...
1354
01:05:06,584 --> 01:05:08,543
[cacophony of voices]
1355
01:05:09,125 --> 01:05:10,667
-... and the only way to have
1356
01:05:10,709 --> 01:05:12,668
peace and serenity
again was to die.
1357
01:05:12,876 --> 01:05:14,543
- Do all of you want to take
this drug?
1358
01:05:14,584 --> 01:05:16,043
Do all of you want
to walk around
1359
01:05:16,125 --> 01:05:17,792
humiliated for the
rest of your life?
1360
01:05:17,834 --> 01:05:20,376
- Thirteen years
had passed since
1361
01:05:20,459 --> 01:05:23,377
the dramatic 1991
FDA-Prozac hearings.
1362
01:05:23,584 --> 01:05:27,251
By 2004, The British
government had virtually
1363
01:05:27,334 --> 01:05:30,252
banned SSRIs for children
and young adults,
1364
01:05:30,501 --> 01:05:33,419
in light of the real risk
of suicide and violence.
1365
01:05:33,792 --> 01:05:37,584
But in America, the US
FDA remained unconvinced,
1366
01:05:37,876 --> 01:05:39,627
and demanded more studies.
1367
01:05:39,709 --> 01:05:42,668
This was welcome
news at Pfizer, GSK,
1368
01:05:42,751 --> 01:05:44,751
and The House That Prozac Built.
1369
01:05:44,918 --> 01:05:46,877
- We didn't know what the
result was going to be.
1370
01:05:46,918 --> 01:05:49,794
We had no idea, but
we wanted, we thought
1371
01:05:49,959 --> 01:05:51,877
getting as right an
answer as possible
1372
01:05:51,918 --> 01:05:53,210
was the right thing to do.
1373
01:05:53,250 --> 01:05:56,333
In 1983, nine years
before the launch
1374
01:05:56,375 --> 01:05:59,500
of Zoloft in the United States,
1375
01:05:59,918 --> 01:06:04,085
21 years before the
FDA required Pfizer
1376
01:06:04,167 --> 01:06:06,459
to put a black box
warning on it,
1377
01:06:07,375 --> 01:06:10,584
Pfizer had done a
healthy volunteer trial
1378
01:06:10,626 --> 01:06:14,210
on Zoloft in the UK.
1379
01:06:14,375 --> 01:06:17,001
They recruited 12
women to this trial.
1380
01:06:17,501 --> 01:06:20,043
Half of them were
to be given Zoloft,
1381
01:06:20,334 --> 01:06:22,793
the other half were
given a placebo.
1382
01:06:23,501 --> 01:06:25,751
The trial was due to
run for two weeks
1383
01:06:25,834 --> 01:06:28,126
but stopped after a week because
1384
01:06:28,167 --> 01:06:31,876
every single woman
taking Zoloft
1385
01:06:31,959 --> 01:06:35,751
had become anxious,
apprehensive, agitated.
1386
01:06:35,876 --> 01:06:39,543
One or two had begun to voice
thoughts about harming others.
1387
01:06:39,751 --> 01:06:41,751
All of the things
that led FDA to put
1388
01:06:41,834 --> 01:06:45,251
a black box warning on
this drug 21 years later
1389
01:06:45,292 --> 01:06:47,001
were there in 83.
1390
01:06:47,375 --> 01:06:52,792
What was more, Pfizer looked
at this trial and wrote down,
1391
01:06:53,250 --> 01:06:56,625
Zoloft has caused
this problem.
1392
01:06:57,209 --> 01:07:00,168
- For Mathy Downing, and
thousands like her,
1393
01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:03,584
the earth-shattering epiphanies
came weeks too late.
1394
01:07:03,709 --> 01:07:08,834
Ironically, it happens
that the doctor that
1395
01:07:08,876 --> 01:07:12,627
approved Zoloft as an
antidepressant for children,
1396
01:07:12,709 --> 01:07:16,126
Tom Laughren, ironically,
I know this man.
1397
01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:19,375
because both of his
daughters attended school
1398
01:07:19,459 --> 01:07:21,626
with my daughters
for eight years.
1399
01:07:21,751 --> 01:07:24,543
- For over 20 years,
Thomas Laughren was
1400
01:07:24,584 --> 01:07:27,376
head of FDA's
psycho-pharmacology division.
1401
01:07:28,042 --> 01:07:31,376
I had no idea he worked
at FDA until I saw him
1402
01:07:31,459 --> 01:07:35,168
on the FDA panel three
weeks after Candace died.
1403
01:07:35,834 --> 01:07:39,293
I sat there with my husband and
we listened for eight hours
1404
01:07:39,375 --> 01:07:43,834
while person after person after
person basically told our story.
1405
01:07:44,501 --> 01:07:49,751
I went up to speak with him when
the meeting was over and I said,
1406
01:07:49,834 --> 01:07:53,959
where can I find information
about those contraindications?
1407
01:07:54,042 --> 01:07:56,001
And he told me he
would give me
1408
01:07:56,042 --> 01:07:57,918
a list of people for
me to talk to,
1409
01:07:58,042 --> 01:08:00,793
and then I never
spoke to him again.
1410
01:08:01,209 --> 01:08:04,584
I mean, he's a father of two
of my daughters friends.
1411
01:08:04,626 --> 01:08:06,502
I really did think
he would help me,
1412
01:08:06,584 --> 01:08:08,293
I thought he would
follow through
1413
01:08:08,334 --> 01:08:11,668
and help me gain the information
I needed, but he didn't.
1414
01:08:11,918 --> 01:08:15,001
- As fate would have it,
yet another FDA hearing
1415
01:08:15,083 --> 01:08:19,458
on SSRIs and violence was
held in September 2004.
1416
01:08:19,709 --> 01:08:22,585
In one brief,
emotionally-charged moment,
1417
01:08:22,626 --> 01:08:25,335
Mathy Downing stepped
up the microphone.
1418
01:08:25,667 --> 01:08:30,418
And when I spoke at the FDA
hearings on September 13,
1419
01:08:30,834 --> 01:08:32,626
I addressed him personally.
1420
01:08:32,918 --> 01:08:36,544
- After months of grieving
and too-few answers,
1421
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:38,834
Mathy Downing finally let loose.
1422
01:08:39,375 --> 01:08:41,834
The blood of these children
are on your hands.
1423
01:08:42,292 --> 01:08:45,709
I remember seeing Mathy Downing
stand up at the hearing
1424
01:08:45,792 --> 01:08:48,792
and confront the...
Laughren and the other
1425
01:08:48,834 --> 01:08:51,418
FDA panel members
and say, you know,
1426
01:08:51,459 --> 01:08:53,668
the blood of my daughter
is on your hands.
1427
01:08:53,792 --> 01:08:55,084
And she was right.
1428
01:08:55,125 --> 01:08:58,584
- Later, Mathy Downing
learned that Thomas Laughren
1429
01:08:58,626 --> 01:09:01,793
had been in the thick
of the sSRI controversy
1430
01:09:01,834 --> 01:09:05,168
since well before the
1991 Prozac hearings.
1431
01:09:05,501 --> 01:09:07,377
Some of the people
we find as
1432
01:09:07,417 --> 01:09:09,626
the original culprits,
the problem at FDA,
1433
01:09:09,667 --> 01:09:15,418
Dr. Bob Temple; Thomas
Laughren is horribly guilty.
1434
01:09:15,834 --> 01:09:19,084
All these same individuals
were involved
1435
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:22,043
back in the early
90s when this risk
1436
01:09:22,125 --> 01:09:24,334
was being raised and identified,
1437
01:09:24,501 --> 01:09:27,668
and rather than pursuing
safety concerns
1438
01:09:27,709 --> 01:09:30,792
or requiring drug
companies to do more
1439
01:09:30,834 --> 01:09:33,834
to determine if this
is a serious risk,
1440
01:09:34,125 --> 01:09:35,542
they looked the other way.
1441
01:09:35,709 --> 01:09:40,251
- Laughren left FDA in 2012
and started a new business,
1442
01:09:40,417 --> 01:09:42,376
dedicated to helping
drug companies
1443
01:09:42,417 --> 01:09:44,709
get FDA approval
for their drugs.
1444
01:09:44,834 --> 01:09:47,001
But he was not alone
at the intersection
1445
01:09:47,042 --> 01:09:49,668
of public service and
personal profit.
1446
01:09:50,167 --> 01:09:53,085
I do not find from
the evidence today
1447
01:09:53,125 --> 01:09:55,917
that there is credible evidence
to support a conclusion
1448
01:09:55,959 --> 01:09:58,668
that antidepressant drugs
cause the emergence
1449
01:09:58,792 --> 01:10:01,668
and/ or the intensification
of suicidality
1450
01:10:01,959 --> 01:10:04,001
and/or other violent behaviours.
1451
01:10:04,334 --> 01:10:06,751
- When Dr. Daniel
Casey resurfaced,
1452
01:10:06,834 --> 01:10:10,418
nine years after the 1991
Prozac hearings he chaired,
1453
01:10:10,626 --> 01:10:14,001
he did so as a paid expert
witness for Pfizer.
1454
01:10:14,209 --> 01:10:17,543
Attorney Andy Vickery
conducted the deposition.
1455
01:10:17,834 --> 01:10:19,460
- You were the Chairman of that
1456
01:10:19,542 --> 01:10:21,334
committee for several
years, right?
1457
01:10:21,375 --> 01:10:22,417
Yes.
1458
01:10:22,459 --> 01:10:24,001
The chairman of that committee
1459
01:10:24,042 --> 01:10:26,918
who is moderating it in a public
building in a public place
1460
01:10:26,959 --> 01:10:28,918
was wearing a bullet proof vest.
1461
01:10:28,959 --> 01:10:30,251
- Dr. Casey, did you wear
1462
01:10:30,292 --> 01:10:32,084
a bulletproof vest
to that meeting?
1463
01:10:32,125 --> 01:10:33,125
Yes.
1464
01:10:33,542 --> 01:10:35,709
- Had you ever worn one
prior to that time?
1465
01:10:35,751 --> 01:10:36,793
No.
1466
01:10:36,876 --> 01:10:39,043
- Have you ever worn one since?
- No.
1467
01:10:39,209 --> 01:10:41,626
...because he thought one
of the family members
1468
01:10:41,709 --> 01:10:44,501
of the people being harmed
by Prozac would shoot him.
1469
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:47,168
- You certainly did not
believe it was the folks
1470
01:10:47,209 --> 01:10:50,127
on the Eli Lilly side
of the coin, did you?
1471
01:10:50,375 --> 01:10:51,375
No.
1472
01:10:51,626 --> 01:10:53,001
No conflict of interest?
1473
01:10:53,167 --> 01:10:56,001
- And yet that would not
effect your objectivity.
1474
01:10:56,292 --> 01:10:57,959
- Is that your testimony?
- Yes.
1475
01:10:59,626 --> 01:11:01,751
- Others, like
Harvard University's
1476
01:11:01,792 --> 01:11:04,042
influential
Dr. Joseph Biederman,
1477
01:11:04,209 --> 01:11:07,001
also seem to display an
unnerving indifference
1478
01:11:07,042 --> 01:11:08,793
to their conflicts-of-interest.
1479
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,709
Here, Biederman
was being deposed
1480
01:11:10,751 --> 01:11:12,377
as a key thought-leader ,
1481
01:11:12,459 --> 01:11:14,751
one of those most
responsible for spreading
1482
01:11:14,792 --> 01:11:17,584
the off-label use of the
anti-psychotic Risperdal
1483
01:11:17,667 --> 01:11:19,418
to millions of teens.
1484
01:11:50,167 --> 01:11:52,668
In a remote town in western
Canada,
1485
01:11:52,792 --> 01:11:55,459
the Stephan family was
facing a life and death
1486
01:11:55,501 --> 01:11:58,293
struggle in the shadow
of the Rocky Mountains.
1487
01:11:58,417 --> 01:12:01,168
Two of Debbie Stephan's
children were exhibiting
1488
01:12:01,250 --> 01:12:04,168
the same symptoms that had
ultimately claimed her life:
1489
01:12:04,375 --> 01:12:06,959
Joseph was becoming
frighteningly violent
1490
01:12:07,042 --> 01:12:10,334
and his sister Autumn was
succumbing to severe bipolar,
1491
01:12:10,417 --> 01:12:12,667
with its mercurial mood swings.
1492
01:12:12,876 --> 01:12:15,752
Their father, Tony
Stephan, was desperate
1493
01:12:15,876 --> 01:12:18,668
and searching for any way
to save his children,
1494
01:12:18,792 --> 01:12:20,668
when drug after drug failed.
1495
01:12:21,167 --> 01:12:25,085
The answer came from what seemed
the unlikeliest of places:
1496
01:12:25,167 --> 01:12:28,085
micro nutrients,
mainly minerals.
1497
01:12:28,459 --> 01:12:33,251
- I remember the earlier
days of doing the testing
1498
01:12:33,334 --> 01:12:35,793
with nutrients and
different things.
1499
01:12:36,042 --> 01:12:38,793
I think they were
trying to reduce
1500
01:12:38,834 --> 01:12:41,126
some liquid mineral thing to...
1501
01:12:41,209 --> 01:12:44,459
you know, so you didn't have to
drink a whole cup of something,
1502
01:12:44,542 --> 01:12:45,709
it could be an ounce,
1503
01:12:45,751 --> 01:12:47,627
and I don't think it
worked very good,
1504
01:12:47,709 --> 01:12:48,834
and it smelled funny.
1505
01:12:48,834 --> 01:12:50,917
I remember the smell
and I can still
1506
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:52,876
taste it in the
back of my throat.
1507
01:12:52,876 --> 01:12:55,460
I think they burned
it, I'm not sure.
1508
01:12:55,751 --> 01:12:59,418
At first it didn't work.
It did not work.
1509
01:13:00,125 --> 01:13:02,125
- I just remember
I was out camping
1510
01:13:02,292 --> 01:13:06,709
and I had a little bottle
of, I call it rust water,
1511
01:13:06,792 --> 01:13:08,501
it was the colour of rust,
1512
01:13:08,542 --> 01:13:10,625
and I was supposed to
drink a little ounce
1513
01:13:10,751 --> 01:13:12,543
of that every day,
a couple of times.
1514
01:13:12,584 --> 01:13:14,293
And so I would be doing that.
1515
01:13:14,375 --> 01:13:15,959
I mean, it was so
experimental,
1516
01:13:16,042 --> 01:13:19,834
I didn't even really understand
what we were really doing here.
1517
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:24,042
We put him on a cocktail
that contained vitamins,
1518
01:13:24,083 --> 01:13:27,709
minerals, antioxidants
and amino acids.
1519
01:13:28,334 --> 01:13:31,376
I was absolutely livid
when I found out that
1520
01:13:31,417 --> 01:13:34,084
he had taken Joseph off
of his medication,
1521
01:13:34,125 --> 01:13:36,125
and I said some
terrible things to him.
1522
01:13:36,209 --> 01:13:38,626
I, I... told him
it was on his head,
1523
01:13:39,083 --> 01:13:42,001
the next suicide in this family
was going to be his fault.
1524
01:13:42,083 --> 01:13:45,208
- I remember about six
weeks into this program
1525
01:13:45,792 --> 01:13:49,042
that we sat together on
the couch and he said,
1526
01:13:49,584 --> 01:13:52,502
where was I? What
happened to me?
1527
01:13:52,584 --> 01:13:55,085
"Why was I so angry
all of the time?
1528
01:13:55,167 --> 01:13:57,376
I said, don't go there,
you don't have to.
1529
01:13:57,501 --> 01:14:00,960
"Live the day now. You re here.
Be in the present.
1530
01:14:01,083 --> 01:14:04,125
It was like one day
waking up and a fog
1531
01:14:04,209 --> 01:14:07,793
had completely lifted,
and that was amazing.
1532
01:14:07,918 --> 01:14:10,918
It was a very real turning
point in my life.
1533
01:14:11,125 --> 01:14:13,834
- With Joseph on the
mend, Tony Stephan
1534
01:14:13,876 --> 01:14:16,543
then turned his attention
to his daughter Autumn,
1535
01:14:16,584 --> 01:14:18,751
who had been in and
out of psych wards.
1536
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,751
- I ended up in my dad's custody
1537
01:14:20,834 --> 01:14:23,293
and he has a friend who
was a male psych nurse
1538
01:14:23,375 --> 01:14:26,709
who decided to hang around the
house a lot and honestly,
1539
01:14:26,751 --> 01:14:28,793
I look back on it
now, I think that
1540
01:14:28,834 --> 01:14:32,126
they were waiting for a moment
1541
01:14:32,209 --> 01:14:35,209
when they would have
legal justification
1542
01:14:35,375 --> 01:14:40,084
to force me to go on this
micro-nutrient stuff.
1543
01:14:40,751 --> 01:14:43,043
And at time, it was like
this crazy concoction
1544
01:14:43,125 --> 01:14:45,917
with liquids and powders, and
you know, pills and things
1545
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,083
and I had said no, and
my husband had said,
1546
01:14:48,167 --> 01:14:50,001
No. We re not doing that.
1547
01:14:50,042 --> 01:14:52,125
And my psychiatrist said, No!
1548
01:14:52,584 --> 01:14:54,667
In fact, he said,
don't rock the boat.
1549
01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:57,168
"You will die. Do not go
off of this medication.
1550
01:14:57,292 --> 01:14:59,959
And I was on that five-drug
cocktail at the time.
1551
01:15:00,042 --> 01:15:03,125
And so I had absolutely
no intention of
1552
01:15:03,209 --> 01:15:05,209
doing what my dad
had already started
1553
01:15:05,292 --> 01:15:07,751
with my brother
Joseph, no intention.
1554
01:15:08,125 --> 01:15:10,500
I won't say that I forced
her to do it because
1555
01:15:10,584 --> 01:15:12,793
that doesn't sound
politically correct,
1556
01:15:13,042 --> 01:15:15,084
but I constrained her to do it.
1557
01:15:15,459 --> 01:15:17,335
You know, and she
just didn't believe
1558
01:15:17,375 --> 01:15:19,126
that this was going
to work at all.
1559
01:15:19,209 --> 01:15:21,584
And I said, Just keep
taking your medications.
1560
01:15:21,667 --> 01:15:23,959
"I don't care. You know
how to take your meds.
1561
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,959
Take this with it.
Just keep taking it.
1562
01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:28,750
So they waited until I had
a little med breakthrough
1563
01:15:28,792 --> 01:15:30,501
and I went rummaging
for a knife,
1564
01:15:30,542 --> 01:15:32,667
and there was some
screaming involved,
1565
01:15:32,751 --> 01:15:36,001
and he and this
friend of his who
1566
01:15:36,083 --> 01:15:38,458
happened to be a
psychiatric nurse,
1567
01:15:38,834 --> 01:15:43,917
um, stuffed me with a bunch
of Ativan and put me to bed.
1568
01:15:44,542 --> 01:15:47,959
And then, while I was still
really nicely sedated,
1569
01:15:48,209 --> 01:15:51,418
began force feeding
me the concoctions.
1570
01:15:51,959 --> 01:15:56,751
- Back in 1996, when I first
met Autumn Stringam,
1571
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,334
it was the first day I also
met her father Tony Stephan.
1572
01:16:00,459 --> 01:16:03,459
And was sitting there in front
of us, completely normal,
1573
01:16:03,542 --> 01:16:07,917
very bright, very articulate,
very charming young woman,
1574
01:16:08,417 --> 01:16:12,126
um, doing very well on
vitamins and minerals,
1575
01:16:12,417 --> 01:16:16,126
but she had lived through this
horrible, horrible period
1576
01:16:16,209 --> 01:16:18,459
and could remember
it so vividly.
1577
01:16:18,667 --> 01:16:20,501
Uh, it was very impressive.
1578
01:16:20,542 --> 01:16:23,001
You knew that you were
hearing a true story,
1579
01:16:23,417 --> 01:16:25,417
and I think that that
has come through
1580
01:16:25,501 --> 01:16:27,168
consistently with Autumn.
1581
01:16:27,417 --> 01:16:29,876
I recognize that a
huge percentage
1582
01:16:29,959 --> 01:16:32,543
of people with bipolar
commit suicide
1583
01:16:32,667 --> 01:16:35,251
and it just as
easily could have been me,
1584
01:16:35,709 --> 01:16:38,792
and it isn't, because something
1585
01:16:38,876 --> 01:16:40,794
really beautiful
happened in my life.
1586
01:16:40,834 --> 01:16:43,834
And I have to acknowledge that,
you know, that's not just mine
1587
01:16:43,918 --> 01:16:45,835
to take and run away
with, but that there's
1588
01:16:45,876 --> 01:16:47,835
a lot of good
that can be done in the world,
1589
01:16:47,876 --> 01:16:49,001
knowing what I know now.
1590
01:16:49,209 --> 01:16:52,584
- These were just three
people from Southern Alberta,
1591
01:16:52,751 --> 01:16:58,418
who believed that they had fixed
two children in Tony's family
1592
01:16:58,584 --> 01:17:02,293
and they did it with vitamins
and minerals off the shelf.
1593
01:17:02,334 --> 01:17:05,876
And they just desperately
wanted a scientist somewhere
1594
01:17:05,918 --> 01:17:08,669
to take them seriously
and do some research.
1595
01:17:09,292 --> 01:17:13,375
- When Stephan and Truehope
approached Dr. Kaplan in 1996,
1596
01:17:13,501 --> 01:17:15,960
she was the Director of
Behavioural Research
1597
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,792
for the University of Calgary.
1598
01:17:17,876 --> 01:17:20,876
As a scientist, she
was highly sceptical,
1599
01:17:20,918 --> 01:17:22,794
and thought the
notion of utilising
1600
01:17:22,834 --> 01:17:25,752
minerals for mental illness
was simply preposterous.
1601
01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:28,709
I think Bonnie, when
we first met her,
1602
01:17:28,792 --> 01:17:31,376
she kind of thought
that we were flaky
1603
01:17:31,667 --> 01:17:35,042
because all of a sudden, you
have these two strange dudes
1604
01:17:35,125 --> 01:17:37,917
coming from Southern Alberta
and they've got this idea
1605
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,792
that you can take people
suffering with these
1606
01:17:40,876 --> 01:17:44,876
intractable, incurable
mental disorders
1607
01:17:45,334 --> 01:17:47,501
and change them and
bring them around,
1608
01:17:47,584 --> 01:17:50,709
when all along, science
hasn't been able to do that.
1609
01:17:51,209 --> 01:17:53,168
I thought, well,
that's impossible.
1610
01:17:53,292 --> 01:17:56,501
"You can't do that. There's no
way it would have that effect.
1611
01:17:56,792 --> 01:17:59,710
But I think that line of thought
1612
01:17:59,792 --> 01:18:03,626
is reflective of our lack of
education about nutrition,
1613
01:18:03,751 --> 01:18:06,960
and the fact that blood
is bathing the neurons
1614
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,542
in our brain every
minute of every day,
1615
01:18:09,667 --> 01:18:11,917
bringing oxygen and what?
1616
01:18:11,959 --> 01:18:15,084
Micro-nutrients to make
those brain cells work.
1617
01:18:15,417 --> 01:18:17,500
- Stephan and his
co-founder created
1618
01:18:17,584 --> 01:18:19,626
a non-profit called Truehope
1619
01:18:19,751 --> 01:18:22,126
and after years of
experimentation,
1620
01:18:22,167 --> 01:18:26,167
they developed a mineral-based
formula called Empower Plus.
1621
01:18:26,417 --> 01:18:30,084
Intrigued by Autumn and Joseph's
successful transformations,
1622
01:18:30,209 --> 01:18:33,793
Dr. Kaplan and others continued
studying the formula
1623
01:18:33,876 --> 01:18:37,668
for bipolar disorder,
ADHD, and depression.
1624
01:18:37,959 --> 01:18:41,042
Some people call this a
micro-nutrient sledgehammer,
1625
01:18:41,125 --> 01:18:43,084
because it's all
of the vitamins,
1626
01:18:43,167 --> 01:18:45,834
and a very long list
of dietary minerals.
1627
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,501
The patients in this
sample got much better,
1628
01:18:48,542 --> 01:18:50,501
in fact more than
50 percent better.
1629
01:18:50,834 --> 01:18:54,209
Quite a few of them were more
than 75 percent better.
1630
01:18:55,417 --> 01:18:57,417
- He wasn't trying
to build an empire
1631
01:18:57,542 --> 01:18:59,917
when he set out to
save me and Joe.
1632
01:19:00,042 --> 01:19:04,376
It was not a deliberate act.
He's not a formulator.
1633
01:19:04,751 --> 01:19:08,293
It was a conversation
that led to an idea
1634
01:19:08,375 --> 01:19:11,792
that led to an answer and that's
all he was ever in it for.
1635
01:19:12,083 --> 01:19:15,125
And he's faced so
much opposition
1636
01:19:15,375 --> 01:19:17,126
for doing the right thing.
1637
01:19:17,250 --> 01:19:19,292
He's faced a lot of
opposition for that
1638
01:19:19,334 --> 01:19:22,043
and I think it's changed the
course of his whole life.
1639
01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,375
- As it has with Dr. Kaplan.
1640
01:19:24,501 --> 01:19:26,543
When she first
presented her findings
1641
01:19:26,626 --> 01:19:29,252
about the Truehope
mineral-vitamin combination
1642
01:19:29,334 --> 01:19:31,459
to the Canadian
Psychiatric Association's
1643
01:19:31,501 --> 01:19:33,710
Annual Meeting in 2001,
1644
01:19:33,751 --> 01:19:37,085
she and the company were
immediately under attack.
1645
01:19:37,417 --> 01:19:39,084
When I went to graduate school,
1646
01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:41,792
they did not prepare me
to be personally attacked
1647
01:19:41,876 --> 01:19:44,210
for just doing
objective research.
1648
01:19:44,375 --> 01:19:46,417
That was a little shocking.
1649
01:19:46,667 --> 01:19:50,543
We took a lot of arrows for
about five years especially,
1650
01:19:50,626 --> 01:19:54,668
longer for the Truehope people,
but it was very, very tough.
1651
01:19:55,209 --> 01:19:59,251
When you try and investigate
a new paradigm,
1652
01:19:59,959 --> 01:20:01,959
the resistance is incredible.
1653
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,292
I watched Dr. Kaplan
go through this.
1654
01:20:04,417 --> 01:20:07,126
We had major resistance
form Health Canada
1655
01:20:07,167 --> 01:20:08,542
shutting down trials.
1656
01:20:08,626 --> 01:20:10,544
I mean, here, the
Alberta government
1657
01:20:10,626 --> 01:20:13,377
had provided 554,000 dollars
1658
01:20:13,542 --> 01:20:15,792
so that she could
continue the work.
1659
01:20:15,918 --> 01:20:19,001
And Health Canada came in
and swathed the trial.
1660
01:20:19,209 --> 01:20:20,418
They destroyed it.
1661
01:20:20,459 --> 01:20:23,251
- Health Canada not only
shut down Dr. Kaplan's
1662
01:20:23,334 --> 01:20:25,001
scientific investigation into
1663
01:20:25,042 --> 01:20:27,001
micro-nutrients and
mental health,
1664
01:20:27,042 --> 01:20:30,918
they ordered Truehope to stop
manufacturing Empower Plus.
1665
01:20:31,083 --> 01:20:32,917
When the company refused,
1666
01:20:33,042 --> 01:20:35,960
they seized the product
at the US-Canadian border
1667
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,250
and banned it for
sale in Canada.
1668
01:20:38,751 --> 01:20:39,751
- Why?
1669
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,209
We're talking about
vitamins and minerals here.
1670
01:20:43,250 --> 01:20:45,417
Well, what that tells
you is anything that
1671
01:20:45,501 --> 01:20:47,419
challenges
commercial interests,
1672
01:20:47,626 --> 01:20:50,418
such as that maybe
micro-nutrients or
1673
01:20:50,459 --> 01:20:52,960
nutrients are a
good thing to do,
1674
01:20:54,167 --> 01:20:58,043
boy, there are powerful forces
behind a commercial story,
1675
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,125
and they will come forth.
1676
01:21:01,542 --> 01:21:04,959
- When Truehope fought back
through the Courts, and won,
1677
01:21:05,083 --> 01:21:07,584
it wasn't long thereafter
that Health Canada
1678
01:21:07,667 --> 01:21:10,042
mobilized the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police
1679
01:21:10,209 --> 01:21:14,543
to conduct a guns-drawn raid at
the Truehope offices in Alberta.
1680
01:21:15,209 --> 01:21:17,793
Health Canada spent
2 million dollars
1681
01:21:17,918 --> 01:21:20,836
to prosecute Truehope
for charges,
1682
01:21:20,876 --> 01:21:22,668
that had they been found guilty,
1683
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:25,418
would have amounted
to a 375 dollar fine.
1684
01:21:25,459 --> 01:21:28,043
Um, they lost.
Health Canada lost,
1685
01:21:28,209 --> 01:21:31,127
but all of those costs
to defend ourselves
1686
01:21:31,209 --> 01:21:33,751
were not recouped
from Health Canada.
1687
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,667
Despite Pharma's
falsified science
1688
01:21:36,751 --> 01:21:39,669
and billion-dollar fines
for fraudulent marketing
1689
01:21:39,834 --> 01:21:43,376
and in spite of millions who
were harmed by psychiatric drugs
1690
01:21:43,584 --> 01:21:47,251
Health Canada decided that
it was this tiny non-profit
1691
01:21:47,459 --> 01:21:49,668
that needed to be
shown the full might
1692
01:21:49,709 --> 01:21:51,168
of the Canadian government.
1693
01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:56,751
There has been a huge bias
against nutrition research.
1694
01:21:57,417 --> 01:21:58,876
Who's triggering that?
1695
01:21:59,250 --> 01:22:01,917
Who, what is the
political agenda
1696
01:22:02,083 --> 01:22:07,083
that is continually bombarding
us with the message
1697
01:22:07,125 --> 01:22:08,917
that taking vitamins
and minerals
1698
01:22:08,959 --> 01:22:11,209
might not be a good thing?
I don't get that.
1699
01:22:11,334 --> 01:22:14,210
But the result is that
there is a lot of bias
1700
01:22:14,292 --> 01:22:17,126
against people who say not
only should we take them,
1701
01:22:17,209 --> 01:22:18,751
we should be studying it more
1702
01:22:18,792 --> 01:22:20,501
and we should see whether or not
1703
01:22:20,542 --> 01:22:23,168
there's treatment benefit
from vitamins and minerals.
1704
01:22:23,334 --> 01:22:25,043
What I'm going to
talk about today
1705
01:22:25,125 --> 01:22:27,375
may sound as radical as
hand washing sounded
1706
01:22:27,417 --> 01:22:29,168
to a mid-19th century doctor,
1707
01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:31,418
and yet it is equally
as scientific.
1708
01:22:31,542 --> 01:22:34,792
It is the simple idea
that optimizing nutrition
1709
01:22:34,876 --> 01:22:38,377
is a safe and viable
way to avoid,
1710
01:22:38,501 --> 01:22:41,210
treat or lessen mental illness.
1711
01:22:41,542 --> 01:22:44,959
- After nearly two decades of
wrangling with Health Canada,
1712
01:22:45,042 --> 01:22:47,709
and three-quarters of a million
dollars in court costs
1713
01:22:47,751 --> 01:22:49,627
and legal fees for Truehope,
1714
01:22:49,751 --> 01:22:52,751
Bonnie Kaplan, Julia
Rucklidge, and
1715
01:22:52,834 --> 01:22:54,418
others continue to investigate
1716
01:22:54,459 --> 01:22:56,584
the use of nutrients
as a primary treatment
1717
01:22:56,626 --> 01:22:58,043
for mental health.
1718
01:22:58,083 --> 01:23:00,417
Yet the road has been
anything but easy.
1719
01:23:00,834 --> 01:23:04,917
I was very aware
of how many people
1720
01:23:05,209 --> 01:23:08,835
were incredibly sceptical
about this work.
1721
01:23:09,292 --> 01:23:11,334
I was trained as a scientist
1722
01:23:11,584 --> 01:23:14,667
and we need to
evaluate the evidence.
1723
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,501
What has astounded me is the
obstacles that we faced
1724
01:23:19,626 --> 01:23:22,751
in order to try to answer
what's a, I think,
1725
01:23:22,876 --> 01:23:25,668
a very important question
for our community.
1726
01:23:25,918 --> 01:23:28,669
I happen to think that
medications are very important,
1727
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:30,501
especially in acute crises.
1728
01:23:30,584 --> 01:23:34,335
But, to me they're the
supplement, in the ideal world.
1729
01:23:34,584 --> 01:23:37,418
I believe that it would
be more beneficial
1730
01:23:37,501 --> 01:23:40,918
to a lot of people especially
developing children,
1731
01:23:41,125 --> 01:23:45,292
um, to be treated first with
everything psychosocial,
1732
01:23:45,334 --> 01:23:47,043
family therapy, etcetera,
1733
01:23:47,125 --> 01:23:48,959
and nutritional, which is not
1734
01:23:49,042 --> 01:23:51,376
going to cause any
long term harm,
1735
01:23:51,542 --> 01:23:54,251
and that that should be primary
intervention.
1736
01:23:54,292 --> 01:23:56,210
It took me two more
months to get off
1737
01:23:56,250 --> 01:23:57,959
of the rest of my medication
1738
01:23:58,042 --> 01:24:00,334
and I'd say the better
part of the year
1739
01:24:00,375 --> 01:24:03,792
before I felt like I was
just really stable.
1740
01:24:04,334 --> 01:24:07,459
There are going to be
people who want to say
1741
01:24:07,542 --> 01:24:10,209
that, you know, I'm just
trying to make a lot of money
1742
01:24:10,334 --> 01:24:13,543
off of a big made-up story, but
my mother's dead in the ground.
1743
01:24:13,584 --> 01:24:15,085
Her dad's dead.
1744
01:24:15,417 --> 01:24:17,417
We all know how that happened.
1745
01:24:18,459 --> 01:24:20,834
She had a prescription,
and there's
1746
01:24:20,876 --> 01:24:23,043
some things you just
can't argue with, you know?
1747
01:24:23,334 --> 01:24:24,376
And uh...
1748
01:24:24,417 --> 01:24:25,918
and I'm not dead.
1749
01:24:26,375 --> 01:24:29,209
And I've got four healthy
kids and a great marriage.
1750
01:24:29,250 --> 01:24:31,084
And that's something I didn't
expect
1751
01:24:31,125 --> 01:24:32,876
would ever happen with me.
1752
01:24:34,876 --> 01:24:37,668
[slow music]
1753
01:24:42,792 --> 01:24:46,751
The lesson of a generation's
worth of psychiatric experiments
1754
01:24:46,834 --> 01:24:49,543
is that regulators didn't
protect the public;
1755
01:24:49,584 --> 01:24:51,959
doctors didn't protect
their patients;
1756
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,918
journalists refused to
ask the tough questions;
1757
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,792
the pharmaceutical
companies played
1758
01:24:56,834 --> 01:24:58,876
the system and
profited handsomely;
1759
01:24:58,918 --> 01:25:02,085
and millions suffered,
died, became addicts,
1760
01:25:02,209 --> 01:25:03,876
or were otherwise harmed.
1761
01:25:04,459 --> 01:25:06,584
You know, a lot of times
parents think that
1762
01:25:06,667 --> 01:25:09,209
their eight or nine-year-old
just won't understand;
1763
01:25:09,292 --> 01:25:11,850
it's just easier to just
give them the medications.
1764
01:25:11,918 --> 01:25:14,752
But not telling your kid why
they're taking the medication
1765
01:25:14,792 --> 01:25:16,792
or what the medication
is supposed to do
1766
01:25:16,834 --> 01:25:18,251
can be really harmful.
1767
01:25:18,292 --> 01:25:20,709
And having that
kernel of knowledge
1768
01:25:20,751 --> 01:25:22,876
that these things that
I was experiencing
1769
01:25:22,918 --> 01:25:25,168
weren't me but were
caused by a medication,
1770
01:25:25,209 --> 01:25:26,626
I think would've been...
1771
01:25:26,709 --> 01:25:29,709
would've saved a lot
of pain.
1772
01:25:30,792 --> 01:25:31,917
A lot of pain.
1773
01:25:32,250 --> 01:25:33,584
We've been through a lot.
1774
01:25:33,626 --> 01:25:35,668
And she stopped
taking the drugs and
1775
01:25:35,709 --> 01:25:37,668
a new kid, you know,
came forward.
1776
01:25:37,792 --> 01:25:41,001
Straight As at the
University of St. Thomas;
1777
01:25:41,083 --> 01:25:44,458
summa cum laude;
valedictorian; unbelievable.
1778
01:25:44,584 --> 01:25:48,168
Here is this child that I
was afraid would never get
1779
01:25:48,209 --> 01:25:51,001
out of her bedroom is now
doing what she's doing.
1780
01:25:51,167 --> 01:25:52,626
So...
1781
01:25:53,250 --> 01:25:55,250
Um, at any rate,
1782
01:25:55,334 --> 01:25:58,835
it's, it's a great thing that
I have a kid who has
1783
01:25:58,918 --> 01:26:02,419
the tenacity and the...
had the ability
1784
01:26:02,501 --> 01:26:04,085
to tell us what she needed.
1785
01:26:04,125 --> 01:26:07,125
And I'm afraid there are a lot
of kids who aren't like that,
1786
01:26:07,209 --> 01:26:09,793
and they're going to be
in a stupor or worse.
1787
01:26:10,042 --> 01:26:12,626
- These are stories of
those who have fallen
1788
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:15,376
and of those who have
somehow survived.
1789
01:26:15,626 --> 01:26:19,293
Many lost sons and daughters,
brothers and sisters,
1790
01:26:19,584 --> 01:26:21,751
and their tragedies forced these
1791
01:26:21,834 --> 01:26:24,209
private people out
of the shadows.
1792
01:26:24,292 --> 01:26:25,834
They wanted answers
1793
01:26:25,918 --> 01:26:28,836
and were not interested in
the politics of medicine.
1794
01:26:28,959 --> 01:26:31,835
If the truth had been
afforded us decades ago,
1795
01:26:31,959 --> 01:26:35,084
millions would have been
spared similar fates.
1796
01:26:35,667 --> 01:26:38,585
It's a very primitive thing,
missing your children.
1797
01:26:38,667 --> 01:26:41,293
You miss their warmth
and their smell
1798
01:26:41,375 --> 01:26:45,084
and their lovely,
lovely presence.
1799
01:26:46,250 --> 01:26:49,584
- Perhaps change is coming,
albeit too slowly.
1800
01:26:50,083 --> 01:26:53,875
But until it occurs, we should
take nothing for granted:
1801
01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:56,875
not our loves, nor our lives,
1802
01:26:56,959 --> 01:26:59,751
or the gift of our
families and friends.
1803
01:26:59,834 --> 01:27:03,335
As these Letters From
Generation Rx have taught us,
1804
01:27:03,459 --> 01:27:05,335
there is peril in
the conventional
1805
01:27:05,417 --> 01:27:07,918
wisdom of treating
so many people
1806
01:27:08,250 --> 01:27:13,084
so indiscriminately, with such
powerful, life-changing drugs.
1807
01:27:13,959 --> 01:27:15,835
You know, if somebody
said to me that
1808
01:27:15,918 --> 01:27:19,168
Brennan could come back to life
and I'd never see him again,
1809
01:27:19,250 --> 01:27:21,417
but I know that he
could live his life,
1810
01:27:21,459 --> 01:27:22,918
the biggest loss for me,
1811
01:27:22,959 --> 01:27:24,959
is the wonderful life
he could have had.
1812
01:27:24,996 --> 01:27:26,914
'Cause he would have
been a great dad.
1813
01:27:26,959 --> 01:27:28,668
He was a great
friend to everybody.
1814
01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:33,084
If that's what it took, then
I would do that in a second.
1815
01:27:39,250 --> 01:27:43,042
- As they mourn every
birthday, every holiday;
1816
01:27:43,834 --> 01:27:46,626
every anniversary of
a loved one's death,
1817
01:27:47,459 --> 01:27:50,751
their only prayer is to
stop this from happening
1818
01:27:51,083 --> 01:27:52,375
to anyone else.
138004
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