All language subtitles for Making.a.Murderer.S02E01.Number.18.720p.NF.WEB-DL.DD5.1.x264-NTG-HI

Well, he is one of northeast Wisconsin's
most notorious murderers,

and now a new documentary is set to air

about the life and crimes of Steven Avery.

[newscaster]
From his 2003 release from prison

for a crime he did not commit,

all the way through his 2007 conviction
for Halbach's murder,

Steven Avery's notoriety has been followed
by the people in northeast Wisconsin,

and now, in a ten-part series
being released on Netflix next month:

Making a Murderer.

Many people in this community we talked to

are not interested in anything
dealing with Avery.

You get wrongly convicted,
and then, all of a sudden, you do that.

You get a second chance and you blow it.

[newscaster] In response to
the documentary, the Halbach family says,

"We are saddened to learn

that individuals and corporations
continue to create entertainment

and to seek profit from our loss.

We continue to hope
that the story of Teresa's life

brings goodness to the world."

- Making a Murderer.
- Making a Murderer.

Making a Murderer.

- Making...
- Making...

Making a Murderer.

I hadn't heard about this
until about a week ago.

It's been all the rage.

- [newscaster] People worldwide...
- Millions of views...

- [reporter] A sea of angry social media...
- People are extremely outraged.

Steven Avery's lawyers now are rock stars.

- Sex symbol.
- Good morning, heartthrobs.

Celebrities have taken to social media...

- Celebrities are tweeting...
- Tweeting like crazy.

Everyone is talking about this docuseries.

Petitions calling for the release
of Steven Avery continue to grow.

The most activity the site has ever seen.

There are now calls
for the President himself to get involved.

[newscaster] In a lengthy response,
the White House wrote in part:

"Since Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey
are both state prisoners,

the President cannot pardon them.

A pardon in this case would need
to be issued at the state level

by the appropriate authorities."

[reporter] The state's governor,
Scott Walker, refused.

People watching a TV series
calling for a pardon

without having little or no knowledge
of major pieces of evidence.

[reporter] The governor has not seen
Making a Murderer,

but calls it one-sided.

[Scott Walker] Documentaries tend to offer
a balanced approach.

It's really not a documentary.

[man] I'm gonna do everything in my power
to free Steve Avery,

and then I'm coming after you.

[newscaster] Viewers made death threats
against Kratz and his family.

His Yelp page
is under an active clean-up alert

because of all the negative comments.

"I hope your daughter gets raped
and murdered."

A decade later, you have no concern

that some of your people might have done
something inappropriate with the evidence?

No, I do not.

- [reporter] Zero?
- Zero.

[reporter]
Sheriff Robert Hermann is getting emails

from all over the world,
some he calls "hate mail."

"Your department is as crooked
as they come.

I hope you all rot in hell."

That I got this afternoon.

For those who think
Steven Avery didn't do it,

it comes down to one prominent attorney
famous for wrongful convictions

who says she's about to turn
this case upside-down.

[newscaster] Steven Avery
has a new high-profile lawyer.

Kathleen Zellner is famous for exonerating
17 other men of wrongful convictions.

[reporter] Zellner wasting no time
in criticizing former prosecutor Ken Kratz

for his role in putting Avery behind bars.

[reporter 2] Saying, "The Zellner Law Firm
is looking forward to adding Mr. Avery

to its long list
of wrongful conviction exonerations."

[reporter 3]
Now prosecutor Ken Kratz alleges

important evidence was left out
of the documentary.

What is the most persuasive evidence
that the series left out?

The DNA that was found on the hood latch
was the most persuasive.

His sweaty hands reached
underneath the hood

and got onto the hood latch.

You can't plant sweat.

How do you leave that out
of the documentary?

[reporter]
Not aired in the Netflix documentary,

DNA found inside the hood latch which,
according to Kratz,

came from the skin and sweat
of Avery's finger.

[reporter 2] The DNA was sweat.

DNA evidence from sweat.

Sweat DNA is not something
that you just carry around with you

and slap under the hood of a car.

[newscaster] Prosecutor Ken Kratz says,

"You don't want to muddy up
a perfectly good conspiracy movie

with what actually happened."

The main actor here, everybody believes,
is Steven Avery.

He was convicted.

He received a life sentence,
no possibility of parole.

That man is right where he needs to be.

[protestors]
Manitowoc County, take a stand!

Don't imprison an innocent man!

[woman] The Netflix documentary
really opened up everybody's eyes.

I couldn't sleep, couldn't rest.
I knew something had to be done.

We all live on Avery Road!

I don't believe in the corruption
in Manitowoc County.

I'm 100 percent
behind the police officers.

I think if they have nothing to hide,

they would give these two guys retrials.

[man] DNA evidence proved it,
so he's guilty.

Simple fact.

This could've happened to you
or to any of your family members.

I'd have to kill somebody first.

The Sheriff's Department framed
these two men.

Don't let Netflix tell you what to think!

[chanting] We want justice!
When do we want it? Now!

We got justice! We got...

[theme music plays]

[chair creaks]

[rattling]

[dog barks]

I got no spark at all.

I got no spark now at all.

- Did it spark before?
- Yeah.

With this one I did.

All these envelopes.

[Dolores] All them letters
are good letters about the guys...

from supporters.

That he was innocent and everything else.

And here's a...

Some woman made this.

"Dedicated to Steven Avery Family."

They write, like, nice letters in it.

Oh, this is a picture of me.

[laughs]

They call me... What they call me?

Mama Avery.

[chuckles]

I told him he better be home
for Christmas, though.

How many Christmases we all... I didn't
even make nothing the last couple years.

What for?

Yeah, I don’t know.

[Steven] You know,
I never had a bad letter here.

They're all good.

You know, some people,
they feel really bad and sad

that everything happened to me and...

you know, sometimes it feels like
you want to cry, but you can't.

Once I started,
I couldn't stop reading them.

I'd have to go to chow and then come back

and read the rest of them.

I'm kinda shocked sometimes, you know.

I didn't think all of these people would
care about, you know, this little thing.

Seems like I got the whole world for me.

[reporter] There are still blue ribbons
and hearts made of lights

on homes and businesses
in the Hilbert-Sherwood area

where Teresa Halbach lived
and was part of the community.

[reporter 2] Those that know the Halbachs
say they are sickened

by the Netflix series
and all of the attention it is getting.

I just can't get past
how badly I feel for her family,

I mean, with all of this coming up again
ten years later.

And just the ultimate sadness over,
you know, the death of a person

who had a lot to give the world
and didn't get the chance to give it.

Now, as some are questioning the guilt
of the men convicted for killing Teresa,

her friends are trying to focus on keeping
her memory as bright as her smile.

She really had an electricity,
or an electric personality.

She was always smiling.

[woman] She was the person
you wanted to be friends with

when you were in college.

Just a really great, solid person.

[woman 2] Just always a happy-go-lucky,
typical Midwestern girl.

[reporter] That's how Teresa Halbach's
college friends from UW-Green Bay

will remember her best.

[woman] She'd come in the room
and it lit up.

[Chris] I don't look at her
as someone that was murdered.

I look at her as my classmate
from UW-Green Bay.

We were all trying to get our degree
and get into the real world, I guess.

You're not taping that, are you?

[man laughs]

[Chris] In 2001, the Communications major
offered a class trip

to Australia and New Zealand.

[man] Yeah.

[woman] They're all facing
pretty much in the same direction.

[Chris]
Teresa was really into photography.

That was her passion.

[indistinct chatter]

[Teresa] I love taking pictures.

I love holding a camera in my hand.

I love kids.

I love babies.

[Chris] Who knows what she would've been?

It would've been pretty exciting, I think.

She'll never be able to advance
in her career,

have a family, spend time
with her parents, her siblings.

Teresa's gone.

It doesn't matter, at this point,
to our side of it,

Teresa's friends, her family.

Do we want to see
the right person convicted?

Yeah, I guess. But it's...

That's secondary compared
to anything else. She's gone.

And once she's gone, there's nothing else
you can do about that.

[Brendan] I got a lot of letters to do.

[Brendan laughs]

[Barb] Oh, you got a lot of them now?

[Brendan] Yeah, the past couple days,
I've been getting 20 of them.

[Barb] Ooh.

[Brendan] Like, my stack is up to 38 now.

[Barb] Ooh, you better start writing!

[Barb laughs]

[Brendan] That's what I'm trying to do,
but every time I try to catch up,

I get another fucking 20 of them.

[Barb laughs]

[Brendan] After a while,
my hand starts to hurt.

These are ones that we had at the protest.

[Barb] He loves all his supporters.

He gets anywhere from...

thirty to a hundred letters a week.

And that was in the beginning.

And he's still getting that many.

[Barb] I knew that there was
a lot of people out there that cared.

It makes me feel good.

I don't know, it's just...

It makes me sad that...

Not sad-sad; in a way, it's sad-happy.

That people take time to do this for him.

[Scott] Some amazing people out there.

This blanket here was made
from a lady from Arizona for Brendan.

Pictures of Brendan, little sayings.

Just pictures of my sweet little angel.

[Peter] I didn't know
what to tell everybody at the time.

I was really afraid for him.

I was thinking,
"Well, Brendan, did you really do it?

I mean, you know,
you're getting put away for life.

You know, it's..."

[man]...Brendan R. Dassey,
guilty of second-degree sexual assault...

[Peter] I forgot what
was going through my mind

because I probably want to get rid of it.

You know, but it, for sure,
wasn't really good stuff, I tell you.

I couldn't believe
that he was even a part of it.

Because the Brendan I know
wouldn't even pull wings off of a fly.

He just sits in his video-game room and,
you know, leaves you alone.

That's why I said,
"He did all these things?"

You know, it's impossible.

I guess they interviewed
all the rest of the boys,

like Bobby, Bryan,
but they didn't fall for all that,

so it didn't take them long for...

Like, Brendan,
he's so kind of sucked in with that, so...

He's a lot like me, a slow learner,
which I'm not saying it's bad.

But they never really gave him a chance,
you know?

[birds chirping]

Yeah, I built those, and every year,

they come and raise their babies here.

And then, at certain times of the year...
There's one right up there now.

See? They're going after a hawk.

They come, in three or four months
they have their young,

and then they go back to Brazil.

So...

That's a thing I've been doing for...
This is about my tenth year now.

[Brendan] So you're coming up
Sunday afternoon then, huh?

[Scott] No, we'll be there Sunday morning.

[Barb] Yeah, Sunday morning sometime.

- [Brendan] Yeah?
- [Barb] Yeah.

[Scott] Earlier than last Sunday.

[Brendan] Yeah?

[Scott] We didn't get home here
until ten to seven at night.

[Brendan] Yeah?

He was in Green Bay,

and they moved him back to Columbia.

That's almost three hours away.

So, now I don't get up there as much.

Well, I'd like to, but with working

and, you know, doing the stuff
around here that I gotta do,

it's hard to get up there all the time.

So much of post-conviction work
is emotional at this point.

You come on board a case
at the lowest point for a person.

They've just been convicted.

[Laura] They're in that hole.
It's a black moment for them.

This stuff takes years.
It can take decades.

The fights are so long,
and they can get ugly.

And they can be painful.

So, you know, you have faith,
you believe in your clients.

The truth is a really hard thing
to cover up for too long,

especially in a case like this
where it's just sitting there.

The truth is just sitting there
on the interrogation tape.

All you have to do is persuade someone
to take that close and careful look at it.

The deeper we get into this system,

the more losses that we accrue,
the harder it is to win.

[Drizin] We lost in the state trial court
in front of Judge Fox.

We lost in the appellate court.

We hoped the Wisconsin Supreme Court
would take the case.

The judge who's now looking at the case
has to overturn the decisions

of more other judges.

[Laura] When a petitioner
like Brendan Dassey

files a petition
for a writ of habeas corpus,

he's asking a federal court to review

the way the state court applied
the US Constitution to his case.

What's important to understand
about the federal court system,

which is where Brendan's case is now,

is that there is no federal right
not to be in prison if you're innocent,

which is incredible but true.

Somebody like Brendan
can't walk into federal court

and simply say,
"Here's evidence that I'm innocent.

Here's evidence
that I didn't do this crime."

You can't even walk in and say,
"Here's who did do this crime."

Instead, we have the show federal court
that the Constitution was violated

during Brendan's prosecution.

That's how we get a new trial.

[Laura] We've asked the federal court
to focus on two things in particular.

The first claim we're making
is that Brendan's interrogation

and the confession was involuntary.

That is, it was taken in violation
of Brendan's Fifth Amendment rights

because he was coerced into confessing

to the murder and rape of Teresa Halbach
by police.

[indistinct chatter]

The second claim
we're making in federal court

is that Brendan's
Sixth Amendment right to counsel

was violated by the actions
of Len Kachinsky.

That his actions so violated
the sacred duties

that an attorney owes his client,

essentially, that it was like
Brendan Dassey had no lawyer at all.

- [reporter] Hello, Len.
- Hi.

- Here we are for you.
- OK.

- Everybody good?
- [man] Good.

- [man 2] All set?
- [man] Yeah.

[reporter] What are your thoughts?

Well, we're disappointed in, uh...

uh...

We're, uh... Start over.

We're disappointed in Judge Fox's ruling.

I guess we'll take, uh...

You take a case the way the facts come in,

and Brendan and I will be discussing
the various options we've got in this case

sometime next week.

As a defense attorney,

how many confession cases
have you won that have gone to trial?

[laughs]

Actually, I have won a few,

although never with
a videotaped confession.

So, uh, since the judge ruled
it's admissible,

it would be very strong evidence

that I'm sure a jury would find
quite believable,

as it's right there on tape,
the whole thing,

and it's clear that it wasn't the result
of any intimidation type of tactics

by law enforcement.

We filed our petition
for a writ of habeas corpus

in front of a magistrate judge.

He's the man who will review the way
the state court handled Brendan's case.

There is no deadline
for the court to rule.

We could have a decision tomorrow,

or we could have a decision
a year from now.

Dean Strang actually made an appearance
at the Minnesota State Capitol today.

Later tonight, he's gonna be speaking
to a sold-out audience in Minneapolis.

The value to me of the documentary,
or of any book about the case,

ought to be asking bigger questions.

The things that seem to outrage people
and the questions that we've gotten

are things that Dean and I
have talked about for years.

But most people haven't been interested
in hearing about them until now.

[Dean] When we don't have confidence
in the workings of the system,

I think we have an obligation
to try to work towards a system

that makes fewer mistakes.

Yeah. How do you do that?

You talk about it.

The legal defense team featured
in the Netflix series Making a Murderer

is going on tour across the country.

[Jerry] We were talking at one point,
and said, "Wouldn't it be good

if we could have some kind of a forum
where we could actually let people

engage in a real conversation about this?"

And so the idea
of a speaking tour came up.

"A Conversation on Making a Murderer"

with attorneys Dean Strang
and Jerry Buting.

[newscaster]
"A Conversation on Making a Murderer"

is booking theaters across the country.

[Dean] It's a chance to reach hundreds,

or even thousands,
of people on a given evening

and to speak unedited at some length
about how justice is administered,

especially to those
who don't have many advantages.

As good as
America's system of justice is on paper,

in practice, it falls very short
of the ideals that it's based on.

And it doesn't have to be that way.

If people really take ownership of it,
they can make a difference.

[woman] How confident are you
that Avery will ever be a free man again?

You know, we're not directly involved
in representing him at this point,

but I remain optimistic.

WhenSteven found out that
the Supreme Court had denied his case,

that they wouldn't even look at it,
he was totally devastated.

I've never seen him so down.

[Sandy] He lost his lawyers,
he lost everything.

This was 2011.
He'd been there all that time.

That's when the law library stuff started,

where he was going to get himself out.

He said, "I had to do it the first time,
and I'll do it again."

He was on his own,
doing everything by himself,

and I knew he needed a lawyer to help him.

I started a very extensive search
for a lawyer

that would take a post-conviction case.

I didn't even say the name
in the beginning

because nobody wanted that case.

Most of them thought he was guilty.

I don't think
there was anybody that didn't.

[Steven] I wrote to a lot of lawyers
in that time period.

Some I got a response and some I didn't.

And some I just got the letter back.
They don't even want to open it.

[Sandy] He was in a pretty dark place.

I know he said many times,
"No one's ever going to know the truth.

They're always going to believe
what they think I did."

[Steven] And then I seen a commercial

on Dateline,
on innocent people in prison.

It looked good, so I watched it.

That's when I seen Kathleen.

I told Sandy to watch it.

I watched it, and I said right out loud
in my living room,

"That's the person
that's going to get Steven out."

[Steven] I never heard of a lawyer
who's got so many people out.

That convinced me to get her paperwork
on her law firm.

[Sandy] This is one
that takes them pro bono.

This is what she does.

And I was so excited.

And that's when he told me,
you know, "Get her."

I remember the words. "Get her."

[laughs]

And that's when I wrote the first letter,
which was in January of 2012.

I don't think I stopped after that.

[Steven] I wrote her, and wrote her.

Then Sandy wrote her.

With a good lawyer like that,
you know, it takes a while

because you're always busy.

I remember sending her emails saying,
"Just wonder if you could just answer me,

if you could just tell me yes or no."

[Steven] She won the case,
what she had on the TV.

She got it overturned.

[cheers and applause]

I always had a good feeling about her.

And I never got off of that.

[Sandy] And then there was the day
that I got the email from her.

She had watched the documentary

and she said that she thought
she was the best one for the case.

I thought, "Well, duh. I've been trying
to say this for four years."

Four years lost just went away.

I couldn't wait to get to the prison.

And I remember sitting down with him
and I said,

"Just don't even say anything.
Don't even talk to me.

I just want to say one thing.

Kathleen Zellner wants your case."

[Steven] I was a happy camper.

She's the best lawyer that I ever seen.

[reporter] Reaching out from jail,
his attorney, Kathleen Zellner,

tweeting this handwritten note
after meeting with Avery.

"To my supporters,
I want every forensic test possible done

because I am innocent."

[Steven] You know, I was
all by myself doing this stuff.

I couldn't do hardly no investigation
or have testing done.

When I wrote the labs,
they tell me that they can't get involved

because I need an attorney.

So that brought my spirits way up...

because she can do all of that
and I couldn't.

I knew she had 17 people
that she got overturned.

I'll be number 18, then.

And she can keep on going.

I told Steven Avery
the same thing I tell everyone.

If you hire me and you're guilty,

trust me, I'll do a way better job
than the prosecutors.

I will find out if you are guilty.

And we're gonna do testing.
We can't control the results.

The results will be turned over
to both sides.

So, really think about this.

You would have to be an idiot to be
hiring me to prove that you're guilty.

We begin tonight with the confessions
of a serial killer.

Tomorrow, the attorney
for murderer Larry Eyler

will reveal his secrets and his roles
in many unsolved murders.

Eyler died this weekend in prison
from complications of AIDS.

[newscaster] His attorney,
Kathleen Zellner,

has scheduled a news conference

to reveal Eyler's written confessions
and details of unsolved killings.

[Kathleen] I was really good
at gathering new evidence,

and I'd uncovered
a constitutional violation

that was going to reverse the case.

And it was the only murder
he'd been convicted of.

That was disconcerting to me,
that I could be...

My abilities could be used
to potentially free someone

who's killed 21 people.

[reporter]
Eyler was sentenced to death in 1986

for the grisly murder of a Chicago boy.

[reporter 2] Four years ago, he offered
to confess to other murders

in exchange for the death sentence
to be commuted

to a life sentence
with the possibility of parole.

There were murders in nine jurisdictions,

so my plan, uh, was to make deals

in exchange for the confessions,

because this was somebody extremely smart
that they had no evidence.

They were never gonna close the cases.

I ended up getting
21 detailed confessions.

We did it very piecemeal.

I mean, it was just torturous
trying to get these confessions from him.

[reporter] Commute the sentence,
and he'd admit to 20 other killings.

Only the state's attorney refused a deal.

So Eyler told only his lawyer,
and she could not speak while he lived.

[reporter 2] It was a secret she
was forced to keep for three long years

because of attorney-client privilege.

I had talked to Eyler about giving me
permission when he died,

because he knew he was dying,
I knew he was dying,

to release the confessions.

They were offered liquor and drugs
and money.

They were driven to remote areas.

When he was gone, it was a relief.

You know?

And I was glad to be able
to tell these families,

you know, give them that information.

Daniel Scott McNeive,
Indianapolis, age 21,

May 9, 1983.

Those are the murders committed
by Larry Eyler alone.

Larry Eyler murdered four victims
with an accomplice.

I really didn't want to do
another case like that,

and I didn't want to represent anyone
that was guilty.

[tires screech]

[Kathleen] When I became
Steven Avery's attorney,

it didn't take me very long to realize

that I had to buy the same vehicle
that Teresa had

because so much of the evidence
was concerned with the car.

I think the bloodstains in the car

are probably the biggest piece of evidence
against Steven Avery

in the whole case.

How does your DNA get inside of her truck?

My DNA ain't.
That's because they got blood out of me.

How much blood they got out of me?
A lot of blood.

- Steve.
- They got a lot of blood out of me.

- The sheriff...
- Steve. Come back to reality here.

- I am.
- No, you're not.

I did 18 years.
You think I want to do any more?

Steven Avery told investigators
during a taped interview

that he had never been
in Teresa Halbach's vehicle.

We now know that's a lie.

Because DNA evidence from the suspect,
Steven Avery,

was found on the key,

and Mr. Avery's blood is found inside
of Teresa Halbach's vehicle,

it is no longer a question,
at least in my mind

as the special prosecutor in this case,

who is responsible for the death
of Teresa Halbach.

To have your blood in the car, it's huge,

so I wanted to spend a lot of time on it
and I wanted to do a bunch of experiments.

I've consulted with Stuart James.

He's a very well-known
bloodstain pattern expert.

I've sent him all the photographs
to analyze.

Now, this stain is supposed to have come
from Steven's finger,

from that cut, OK?

So, the person would have to have
swiped that middle finger

across this area of...

Well, if you got some of the blood
drain down

or flow down to the finger,

uh, then that would be the object.

It would not necessarily be
the cut itself.

See what I'm saying?

Right, because it could have run down
to the tip of his finger, say.

Because if the cut was actively bleeding
and he touched that,

you're gonna see, I believe,
a higher volume.

You would get, maybe,
a little flow pattern coming down.

Concentrated to the tip
and then wipe it across.

However, was there any blood
on the key itself,

the key that was recovered?

There was no detectable blood on the key.

Nothing on the key.
What about the steering wheel?

No blood on the steering wheel.

Well, that's...

No blood on the door handle
getting into the car.

Well, how can it be said,

I think I read it in some testimony,

that that would be consistent
with an active source of bleeding,

that little stain?

And yet there's no blood
on the steering wheel

and no blood on the exterior door handle.

The gearshift level,
after you put the key in and start it,

- you would have to...
- And the gearshift level?

- The gearshift is right there.
- No blood on the gearshift.

It doesn't make sense
that it's an active source of bleeding.

Mr. Avery's blood is
in six different places in this vehicle.

Other DNA that is without blood
being visible

is in yet another.

That would be the hood latch.

We heard some questions
of some law enforcement officers

about planting evidence.

We didn't hear anything
about how an officer

might plant a stain like this,

what's called a contact stain,

which common sense would tell you
requires active bleeding.

Mr. Stahlke testified that,
upon his opinion

as a blood spatter expert,
and he does this for a living,

that this particular stain by the ignition
is absolutely consistent

with somebody with a cut
to the outside of the right hand

and turning an ignition.

This transfer,

contact transfer stain,
was absolutely consistent.

Given the location of these six areas,

including the CD case, the two seats,
the flakes in front of the seat,

and on the area adjacent to the ignition,
and then the rear one,

given these separate locations,

it's inexplicable how
an actively bleeding person...

Exactly.

...could go about and produce all these...

- [Kathleen] Selective depositing of blood.
- Selective placement.

You're saying the dots aren't connected.

The dots are far from connected.

The dots aren't connected.

- [Larry] They're in different books.
- They should be connected.

[Kathleen] So, his hands are
extremely similar to Steven's.

So, we've got the cut right here.
Same thickness, same... Yeah.

Not like your hands.
Your hands don't match his at all.

- So, what I want to do is drip...
- I'm sorry, I am...

- Just have some blood right there.
- Alright.

[Stuart] Where was the cut? Inside?

[Kathleen] It's right here
on the first joint. It's right there.

[Stuart] OK, let's just do this.

[Kathleen] OK.

- [Stuart] How's that?
- [Kathleen] Yeah, perfect.

And we can have him open the car up,

and let's just see if there's any blood
when you do that.

[Kathleen] I don't know if we can see it.
It's probably underneath, right?

[Stuart] Here, what if I do this?

[Kathleen] Yeah, up under the...

Hard to see it.

If you can just pick the key up.

So, you're right-handed,
so you'll have it in your right hand.

So, let's see if there'd be any way
you would make that smear.

[engine starts]

Yeah. You didn't even touch it.

Let's see if you touch the gearshift.

Yeah, he's not gonna move it,
but he left a big smear right there.

Do you see it?

Why don't we try it again
with a little bit more blood?

[Stuart] OK.

[starts engine]

[Kathleen] So, again,
you don't come anywhere near that spot.

Yeah, see? On the...

Yeah, look at it,
on the side of the wheel.

Oh, look, it's on here on the ring now.
See the silver?

- [Nick] Yeah. That's not surprising.
- [Kathleen] OK. Yeah.

[Kathleen] The blood is all over
on the silver and on the key itself.

Yeah, look, it's over...
If you hold the light for a minute.

See where the...

Right in there.

These are all places
where they found no blood, you know?

[Nick] Right.

[Kathleen] Another thing we could do...

There's a release latch over on the right,

and then I'll show you how
to open the hood.

Now we do right hand on the prop. Yeah.

Stuart, it's really amazing.

- [Stuart] Sorry?
- [Kathleen] Look at that.

- There's also some on the metal latch.
- [Kathleen] Look at that blob of blood.

[Stuart] Yep.

The prosecution presented testimony
that when Steven turned the ignition key,

that the cut on the first joint
of his middle finger

had made the blood pattern stain
by the ignition

and that he'd done that naturally
as part of turning the key.

Well, that's ludicrous
because once you get in the car

and you put the ignition key in
and you turn it,

you're two inches from that stain.

That is not how it happened.

I don't... You could get in that car

and do that a thousand times
with blood on your finger,

and you will never create that mark.

So, what does that tell me?

Once I uncover one lie like that,

I know there's a whole bunch
more lying going on.

Because no legitimate, honest prosecution
would ever resort to that.

So, when Kratz says in the closing,

"It doesn't matter if the key was planted.
We've got so much else."

Oh, yeah? Yeah, it matters, you know.

Because a whole case can collapse
on one piece of evidence.

But once I saw that, I thought,

"You know, all of this blood testimony
is just a complete lie."

[Norm] Would you look at the next exhibit?
Identify it, please.

Exhibit 299.

[Stahlke] This is the rear door
of the RAV4.

This is the interior panel of that door.

[Norm] And do you observe
any bloodstain patterns

on the interior panel
of the rear cargo door area?

Yes, I did.

[Norm] Please describe those
for the jurors.

[Stahlke] You can see here,
these are impact stains.

They're circular, or near-circular.

And then some of these stains
have a flow pattern.

[Norm] Were you able to determine
how those would be deposited,

the ones that you observed,
the impact stains with the flow pattern?

These stains... or this blood was...

appeared to have been flung off
or released from a bloody object.

Would that be consistent with a body,

with bloody hair being put
into the back of this vehicle?

Yes, it would.

And in this particular case,

these stains don't necessarily require
the bloody hair component.

However, it is consistent
with a bloody object, such as a body,

being loaded into the rear end
of this vehicle.

If you have a bloody object or person

that’s being flung parallel
to that door...

in this case,
from outside to inside the cargo door...

then the shape of the stain
is going to reflect that.

Meaning that for the horizontal motion
of the blood

that has been projected
as a result of cast-off

is going to create more angular stains

that would look more similar
to these more elongated stains here.

OK, so, on your example there,
just so I understand this,

if the body were flung
into the back of the trunk,

show me which stain I would expect to see

if the blood came directly off the body.

What would I be seeing
on the rear cargo door?

You would be seeing stains
that are more elongated,

with the tail of the stain
pointing in that direction of travel.

OK, so, if I were looking here...

I'm seeing stains with a tail on them.
But you're saying...

No, those are flow patterns.
That's entirely different.

If you have a stain of sufficient volume,
gravity will overtake it,

and you'll get a rundown,
which is a flow pattern.

Yeah, that's so huge, though,

because these stains just have
a little flow pattern down,

but they don't have
any horizontal dimension to them.

There's no... Right, there's no indication
of horizontal motion.

Can you give me your pen for a second?

So, I'm gonna give you
the cargo door again.

Are you telling me these things
would be sideways, like that?

Like, what would they look like
if she's been thrown in the back?

You would see stains that would be more...

They would show direction of travel
as opposed to being near-circular.

When Mr. Stahlke talked about the blood

that was found in the back of the RAV4,

Mr. Stahlke told you
the blood suggests impact,

or what's called "projected blood,"

as if an individual was thrown
into the back of the SUV.

That was on the back gate
that Mr. Stahlke talked about.

We'll show you some pictures about that.

As if the blood is splattering
or is actually in movement

as it hits the side of...
or the back gate.

We've got a mannequin that's the same
height as Teresa Halbach, the same weight.

We've put weights on her, 135 pounds.

And we've got human hair,
the same length as Teresa Halbach's hair.

So, the state claimed that Teresa Halbach
was shot twice in the head,

so we have blood on the hair in that area,
in the occipital and parietal.

So, the side and the back of her head.

Yeah. I don't know if that's enough
that's gonna be able to...

- [Kathleen] Let's do more. We'll do more.
- ...come off here.

I wanted to reenact it.

I wanted to understand it.

So, we got a mannequin,
got the blood from a lab,

and then brought Stuart James in

to try to recreate the blood
on the rear cargo door.

Interesting. That's right where that...

Yeah, you've got her in the right spot.

Do you see anything, Stuart? I don't
see any blood that hit the white sheet.

- [Stuart] No, he was kind of blocking it.
- Yeah.

[Nick] It's a lot heavier than it looks.

So, this time, why don't we
interject Scott into it with you?

So, if we had one of you on each side.

Just fling her like he's talking about.

[loud thud]

I think they have to fling her
a little sooner...

to get the blood to come off on the...

I think you ought to turn her sideways.

- You have to put more blood on her.
- Turn her like that.

- [Nick] OK.
- OK. Let's bring more blood.

[Kathleen] We can dump
all the rest of the blood in the hair.

[Nick] One, two, three.

There's no way you could throw
a body that heavy

and generate enough velocity.

[Stuart] Which is what he said happened.

[Kathleen]
Why don't we, just as an experiment,

take all the weight off of her?

You're slinging her exactly where she was,
and it isn't working.

So...

[Nick] There's some there.

With that kind of weight,
he was able to do it,

but with a heavier weight, it would
still require the same acceleration.

It would, yeah.

- Which is not very likely.
- Right.

So, even with taking all the weight off
so she weighs 20 or 25 pounds

and then standing here
and swinging it back and forth,

we're not creating the pattern
that was actually on the RAV4

when they discovered the car.

Now we've got
what you were describing to me before,

this elongated pattern.

[Stuart] The stains that were deposited

with a directionality
of going from right to left.

[indistinct chatter]

[Kathleen] My approach
on all of the post-conviction cases

that I've worked on over the years

is that I have to do two things
simultaneously.

I have to first take apart
the state's entire case.

But at the same time, I want to figure out
exactly what happened.

I'm actually driven more by the desire
to know what happened,

because once I figure out what happened,
then the state's case collapses.

Both things have to be done

because most courts are not going
to vacate a murder conviction.

Most courts want to know,
"What are you saying happened?"

You know?

I mean, if you're so bold that you're
taking apart the state's whole case...

Particularly in a case like this
where such enormous effort was spent

to convict Steven Avery.

[Kathleen] So, we're looking at the rear
cargo door of Teresa Halbach's vehicle.

How would you describe
this bloodstain pattern?

It would fall into the classification
of a cast-off pattern,

which means, by definition, that wet blood
has been flung from an object.

Is there any way that you can determine
from the pattern on the vehicle

where they were positioned
when they made that movement

that caused the pattern?

Again, you go back and look at the shape
of the stain and the distribution.

In this particular instance, these stains
are essentially near-circular,

which means they've come in almost in,
if you will, a horizontal perspective.

OK?

And the source of blood
was close enough to...

It overcame the parabolic arcing
of the blood,

so it still impacted at almost 90 degrees.

And...

the swing has got to be horizontal here,

because if the person,
or the object, wet with blood

was higher than the actual bottom portion
of the hatchback,

the blood would've had
a downward trajectory.

You would see tails
at the front edge of the stains.

So, an area of origin would be...

You know, in this case, I would probably
give it 12 to 15 inches either way.

Not on the floor,
but 12, 15, maybe 20 inches above.

Above ground level.

Six inches won't make a big difference
in the shape of the stains.

- You know what I'm saying?
- Right.

It's not an acute enough angle.

So, somewhere between kneeling
or further down.

[Kathleen] OK, so let's talk about...

I've got various weapons on the table,
or what could be weapons on the table.

If this victim were, say,
kneeling in front of that cargo door,

the cargo door were open,

and I shot the victim in the head...

[Stuart] Gunshots, you have the potential
of a forward spatter and a back spatter.

However, back spatter and forward spatter
produce small droplets

in the size range
of one tenth of a millimeter or less.

So, the size is when...

These are clearly, I would estimate,
two to two-and-a-half millimeters wide,

which, in the absence of other
misting patterns or very small stains,

it is simply not representative
of a pattern produced by gunshot.

But I could probably create
a similar pattern with all three of these,

depending upon where I put the blood.

[Kathleen] Yes, OK.

I mean, for one thing, I think
we can rule out the tip of a knife.

But when you start getting into
other blunt objects,

it's very difficult.

But what we're seeing here
that we're definitive about

is that it is a cast-off pattern

and the source of the blood,
the area of origin, if you will,

was in front of that door,

a couple... two to three feet away,

but also near the, you know...
at the back of the vehicle

with the hatch door open.

[Kathleen] OK, it's just a sling back.

[Stuart] Use a different paper.
Don't hit that one again.

And then put a mark on here, number one.

Yeah.

[Kathleen] That's matching pretty close.

[Kathleen] Experimentation in the case
is extremely important

because you can test the theories
of what you think happened.

It's like if you could go to a crime scene
when it was fresh

and you could redo the whole thing.

That's what I'm doing. I'm recreating it.

Just experiment with that.

Because we get it,
it's gonna, I think, be consistent. Yeah.

OK. Let me put quite a bit on there.

One thing I'm 100 percent sure of,

it did not occur the way
Mr. Kratz told the jury it occurred.

It's demonstrably false what he told them.

And I intend to do that on each piece
of evidence that he presented to the jury.

Because this case, more than anything,

more than a case
of ineffective assistance of counsel,

is a case of gross, extreme,
egregious prosecutorial misconduct.

And so that will be...

That will be a real pleasure,
like, unmasking Mr. Kratz.

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