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So tonight.
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Matthew's fallen off his chair and he
sprained his ankle.
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He badly hurt. No, but it's not the first
time this has happened.
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Air says that he hasn't done the manual
handling training.
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Probably an oversight there.
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And I need to carry out a minimal
investigation.
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See why this keeps happening.
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Are you free to attend interviews and make
notes?
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Not only proper training, but I've seen
plenty of cop shows.
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It's just common sense, to be honest with
you.
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Are you able to book a training room for an
hour this afternoon?
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00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,400
Yeah, no problem. I'll get cracking with
this time line to take him with us.
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This is just a checklist so we can tick
things off as we go.
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Let me know if I forget anything.
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00:00:56,370 --> 00:00:57,840
Right? Yeah, everything is in order.
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00:00:58,620 --> 00:01:00,570
You know, I'm actually looking forward to
this.
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Apparently, Matthew's been moaning about
Susie taking advantage of his good nature,
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but I know Susie isn't like that.
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Just think about your line of questioning.
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Okay. We're not here to make assumptions or
to fight corners or listen to gossip.
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It's just to gather the evidence.
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Yeah, fine. Yeah, of course.
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Just try to remain unbiased.
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How you doing, Matthew?
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Not too bad. Just a sprained ankle.
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I'm glad. It's nothing serious.
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Come on in. Firstly, Matt, HR are going to
arrange for some manual handling training for
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you. Okay.
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Terrific. Thanks, David. I didn't even think
of that.
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Great. So we're just here to get the facts
about the incident.
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I've got a checklist here.
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Oh, sorry, guys.
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It's the MD.
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Looks like he needs me in a board meeting.
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I'm so sorry, I.
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I don't mind doing it if Matthew's alright
with it.
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Look, I'm really sorry, Matthew.
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Thanks. Thanks so much, Paul.
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Don't need that. Okay.
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00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,950
Matthew, could you tell me what happened
earlier today, before, during and after the
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incident?
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00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:19,830
Well, Suzi asked me to get a box down from
the top of the filing cabinet, which I did.
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I'm always happy to help.
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And then about 15 minutes later, she asked
me to put it back up again.
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Well, I was quite annoyed.
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Why were you so enraged?
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I. Enraged.
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Well, you said you were annoyed.
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Well, yeah, I said I was annoyed.
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I didn't say I was enraged.
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Look, I've got targets to meet.
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I can't get any work done if I'm shifting
things around for her all day.
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What else did she say?
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She basically told me to get on with it.
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So there's some animosity between you and
Susie.
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Sounds as though you don't really like or
respect her.
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I don't see what that has to do with
anything.
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And besides, for the record, I get on really
well with Susie.
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Right. Okay. So you're suggesting that Susie
told you to stand on the chair?
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I'm not suggesting that.
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I just said that I was busy.
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And what did she say?
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Well, she told me to get on with it.
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Look, I know she has a back injury, right?
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But I have a job to do.
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I find it strange that Susie told you to
stand on a chair.
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I don't hear her saying that in my head.
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I never said that.
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Why do you keep saying that?
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You've worked her long enough, Matt.
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You should have challenged Susie and use the
ladder.
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So you don't care about your health now?
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Yes, but I'm doing all Susie's jobs, Paul,
and I'm missing my target.
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Right.
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Okay. It's fine.
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Just calm down. So you're saying that Susie
told you not to use the ladder?
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Yes. And what happened when you stood on the
chair?
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I fell and hurt my ankle.
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Could you elaborate?
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No. Look, I've got work to do.
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I've told you what happened, Paul.
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And you're trying to pin the blame on me.
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I'm not.
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Thanks for this, Caroline.
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I know how busy you are. Oh, it's no
problem.
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Come on in. Are you okay after witnessing
that incident earlier?
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Never. Nice to see that. Is it?
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No. I'm okay, though.
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Thank you. I sort of expected it to happen.
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Paul said to make notes for the report.
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Is that okay?
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Yeah, of course.
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Can I get you anything before we start tea?
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Coffee?
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No, thank you. I'm fine.
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There's a pen and paper down there if you
just need to make some notes.
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00:04:35,890 --> 00:04:40,240
Okay, so we'll start with the events leading
up to the incident.
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What time did it happen?
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I checked my log sheets and I had finished a
call at 1052, so it was no more than 10
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minutes after that accident.
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And what happened?
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I finished my call and Matthew shouted me
over.
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He was stood on his office chair and he was
asking me to pass him a box, which he wanted
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to put on top of the filing cabinet.
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00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,680
I said he should probably get a stepladder
and not store anything else on top of the
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cabinet. But he said he'd done it loads of
times.
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Hundreds of times, is what he said actually.
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Famous last words.
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So you warned him about standing on the chair
and also storing it.
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Paul? Paul, it's Matthew.
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Paul. We're in the middle of an interview
here.
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Come on. Sorry, Davis.
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Sorry, Caroline. You were saying?
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I just told him to get the stepladder.
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He was muttering something about Suzy.
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I think from what I gather, he's got a bit
of a problem with her.
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Sounds like there's animosity between Matthew
and Suzy.
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That's not very helpful, Paul.
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We just need an understanding of the events.
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But I'll make a note of Matt's reluctance.
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Carry on, Caroline. You told him it wasn't
safe?
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Yeah. He asked me to pass the box, so I did.
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And I went back to my desk.
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But then I heard him shout.
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So I turned around and it looked as though
the chair had rolled out from underneath him
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when he was leaning forward with the box,
and it possibly tried to grab onto the filing
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cabinet, but he'd fallen anyway.
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00:06:05,140 --> 00:06:07,930
Okay. And how were the surrounding
conditions?
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The lights, the flooring?
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00:06:10,690 --> 00:06:14,560
Well, the floor was carpet tiles, so it was
flat and clear.
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Okay. Did you do anything else?
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I checked to see that he wasn't badly hurt.
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And then I called the first aid.
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So you call the first aider?
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Did you examine Matthew in any way?
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No. I just asked him if he was okay and he
said he'd hurt his ankle.
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Were you aware of anything else?
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He was lucky the box didn't hit him when he
fell.
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Oh, and after I called the first aider, I
got the stepladder and put the box on top of
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the filing cabinet just so that it was out
of everyone's way.
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I took some photographs of the box when it
fell and just the scene.
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So if you like, I can email you those after
we've finished.
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00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:59,150
Thanks, Caroline. Is there anything else
you'd like to ask Paul?
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Um, I'll just recap the events.
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So Matthew asked for your assistance in
place in the box on top of the cabinet.
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After telling Matthew to get a ladder and
not store boxes on the cabinets, which you
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refused to do, you climbed onto his chair.
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You passed in the box and returned to your
desk.
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You heard him shout and turned around to see
the chair rolling out from underneath him.
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You asked if he'd been hurt, to which he
replied, he had a sore ankle.
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So you call the first aid.
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After that, you fetch STEPLADDER and put the
box back on the cabinet.
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And you feel there's some tension between
Matthew and Susie.
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Yeah, that's it.
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Paul. Please remove that last comment we've
established the animosity isn't relevant to
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this investigation.
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My apologies, David.
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Thanks, Caroline. I think that's all for now.
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If you've got any more questions than just
get in touch, but check that your contact
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details are correct on that.
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Yeah, that's.
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It. So once we've done the other interviews,
we'll have your statement typed up.
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Thanks for your time.
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00:07:58,430 --> 00:07:59,460
No problem, Jess.
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See you.
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00:08:02,990 --> 00:08:05,000
So how do you think that went?
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Better. I need to stop with Matt and Susie.
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Anything you're learning.
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Right. Let's go and grab a coffee and we'll
see how these notes tie in with the evidence.
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Yeah.
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Sounds good. Come on.
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Hi, Suzy. Thanks for coming.
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No problem at all.
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How are you doing?
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I'm okay, thanks. How are you?
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Very well. So the purpose of the interview is
just to get the facts from you regarding
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Matthew's fault. We're not here to point any
fingers.
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We just want to know how to stop it
happening to somebody else.
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Paul's here to record what we say for the
interview and to clarify any points.
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We'll type up your statement.
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This will be sent to you after the
interview, and we'll use these statements to
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compile our incident reports.
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00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,220
Are you okay with the aims of the process
and also with Paul's presence?
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That's fine.
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Before we start, are you comfortable?
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Absolutely right.
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Could you start by telling me what time the
event happened?
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While I think it had gone noon and I asked
Matthew to put a box of files back on top of
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the filing cabinet because I'd finished with
it.
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Are you sure it was noon?
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00:09:17,930 --> 00:09:20,810
Another witness said it might have been
around 10:45 a.m..
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Oh, do you know?
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It could have been. It was such a small
request.
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I didn't think much of it.
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Could I ask what was in the box?
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Just some.
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Files. Were they loose?
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Could they move around suddenly or.
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00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,900
No, they were jammed in.
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It was well packed.
201
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,160
Can I ask, why didn't you lift the box back
up yourself?
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00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,220
Susie From my understanding, it's only five
or six kilograms.
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00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:42,560
I've an issue with my back, an old sports
injury.
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00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,460
And what did you say to Matthew when you
asked him to move the box?
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00:09:46,820 --> 00:09:49,970
Well, I asked him to put it back because I'd
finished with it.
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00:09:50,060 --> 00:09:51,050
How did he react?
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00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:53,600
He wasn't very pleased.
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Can you remember exactly what you asked him
to do?
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00:09:56,750 --> 00:10:01,280
Well, I definitely asked him to get a
stepladder from the stationary cupboard and
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00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,800
put the box of files back on top of the
filing cabinet.
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00:10:04,250 --> 00:10:06,050
And he said he was busy.
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00:10:06,050 --> 00:10:09,320
And I said, Well, we're all busy and that he
should just do it.
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00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:13,760
He still didn't do it. So I asked him again.
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00:10:14,510 --> 00:10:16,070
Maybe I should look at his workload.
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I don't know. And then, well, I'll have to
go to a meeting.
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00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:21,380
So you definitely asked him to use a
stepladder?
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00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:23,090
Absolutely.
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00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,180
And how far away are the stepladder kept?
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Just down the corridor, in the cleaner's
cupboard.
220
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,680
It's taken a minute to grab them, but I know
it's not the most convenient location.
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00:10:32,690 --> 00:10:35,030
I thought you said that they were kept in the
stationary cupboard.
222
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,470
Oh, that's right. Sorry.
223
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:38,540
Thanks for the clarification.
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00:10:38,810 --> 00:10:40,910
And do we routinely store things on top of
cabinets?
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00:10:41,690 --> 00:10:42,710
I'm afraid so.
226
00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:44,900
Yeah, there's just so much old stock lying
around.
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00:10:45,410 --> 00:10:48,980
So you're saying that the reason that we
store things at height is that there's old
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00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:50,510
stock taking up too much space?
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00:10:50,660 --> 00:10:51,710
Yeah, that's right.
230
00:10:52,190 --> 00:10:55,220
Thanks, Susie. Well, I think that's all I
need.
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00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:56,810
You got any questions, Paul?
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00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,090
I'll just recap if that's okay.
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00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:04,010
So my understanding is that us, Matthew, for
assistance in place in a box on top of the
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cabinets, you'd instructed him to use a
stepladder, but you had to ask him twice as
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00:11:08,180 --> 00:11:09,760
he wasn't happy with the first request.
236
00:11:09,770 --> 00:11:14,210
The contents of the box were well packaged
together and evenly balanced, and we have to
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store boxes at height because there's a lack
of storage.
238
00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:17,100
Is that correct?
239
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,490
Yes. It's such a shame someone got hurt over
such a trivial thing.
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00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:22,790
Is there anything else you'd like to add,
Susie?
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00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,100
No, that's everything.
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00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:26,670
Okay. Thanks, Susie.
243
00:11:26,690 --> 00:11:28,910
Next, I'm going to email you your statement.
244
00:11:28,910 --> 00:11:32,300
Please read through it and sign it and send
it back to me.
245
00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:36,650
If you're happy with your account, if you
disagree with anything, give me a call and
246
00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:38,270
then we'll resolve any issues.
247
00:11:38,570 --> 00:11:41,630
I'm going to review all this evidence and
then I'll write up the report for the
248
00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:43,730
management team. I'll send you a copy.
249
00:11:43,730 --> 00:11:48,110
Also, again, if there's anything that you
disagree with, please let me know.
250
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:50,120
Okay? Okay. And you've got my contact
information.
251
00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:52,070
I have. Yes.
252
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:52,730
Thank you.
253
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:53,480
Okay.
254
00:11:53,510 --> 00:11:54,650
Brilliant. Thanks for your time.
255
00:11:54,770 --> 00:11:55,220
Okay. Cheers.
256
00:11:55,310 --> 00:11:55,910
Cheers.
257
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:04,170
Yes. Yeah.
258
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:16,260
So it turns out the manual handling policy
is out of date.
259
00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:22,290
I'll ask the health and safety team to do a
review and make sure it's fit for purpose.
260
00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:24,000
What about the risk assessment?
261
00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:29,820
Well, the last risk assessment picked up on
items being stored on filing cabinets.
262
00:12:30,510 --> 00:12:34,500
One of the actions was for a storage and a
housekeeping review.
263
00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:37,620
But I can't find anything here that says
that was done.
264
00:12:37,770 --> 00:12:39,000
I'm going to have to follow this up with
Suzy.
265
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,700
I'll take it. That goes in the report.
266
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:45,630
Absolutely. Thanks for your help, Paul.
267
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,100
Really appreciate this.
268
00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:49,560
All right, David. So what's next?
269
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,560
I just need to take a look through what we've
got now.
270
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,770
How do you think that last interview went?
271
00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:56,220
That was the best of the day by far.
272
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:57,240
Why, sir?
273
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:58,770
Well, no interruptions.
274
00:12:58,770 --> 00:13:00,780
And we had a good rapport with Suzy.
275
00:13:00,810 --> 00:13:02,040
She was easy to talk to.
276
00:13:02,070 --> 00:13:04,680
Well, I think we can both learn from today.
277
00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:09,240
I shouldn't have left you in that interview
with Matthew and not because of you.
278
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,780
They're important, and we really need to
demonstrate that.
279
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:15,060
We'll have to organize for some additional
training.
280
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:21,180
Right. Let's go through all of this evidence
and then we can get on with the action plan.22012
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