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1
00:00:06,745 --> 00:00:08,660
[cheery music]
2
00:00:08,747 --> 00:00:11,620
[coffee trickling]
3
00:00:11,707 --> 00:00:18,627
♪ ♪
4
00:00:22,065 --> 00:00:24,981
[soft rumbling]
5
00:00:26,722 --> 00:00:28,550
- Lisa.
6
00:00:28,637 --> 00:00:30,160
You're trying to make this
a documentary?
7
00:00:30,247 --> 00:00:31,292
What are you trying
to do with it?
8
00:00:31,379 --> 00:00:33,033
- It's gonna be a documentary
9
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,644
trying to figure out
what happened to the Automat.
10
00:00:35,731 --> 00:00:38,212
- So how it began,
how it blossomed,
11
00:00:38,299 --> 00:00:39,822
and how it--
how it ended, right?
12
00:00:39,909 --> 00:00:41,215
- Yeah.
13
00:00:41,302 --> 00:00:42,433
- The big thing
is the nickels,
14
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,000
the little windows--
15
00:00:44,087 --> 00:00:45,001
that's the big thing.
16
00:00:45,088 --> 00:00:46,263
It's the Automat.
17
00:00:46,350 --> 00:00:47,830
You can drift a little
18
00:00:47,917 --> 00:00:49,832
to the good old times
back then,
19
00:00:49,919 --> 00:00:52,443
but you've got to concentrate
on the Automat.
20
00:00:52,530 --> 00:00:53,575
- Yes.
21
00:00:53,662 --> 00:00:54,793
- I-I will, you know--
22
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,752
I'm gonna give you what I can
23
00:00:56,839 --> 00:00:59,885
in terms of time and effort,
you know,
24
00:00:59,972 --> 00:01:03,976
and I'll try
to write the song for you,
25
00:01:04,064 --> 00:01:06,327
but let's get
some other names,
26
00:01:06,414 --> 00:01:08,068
other people who remember
about the Automat,
27
00:01:08,155 --> 00:01:09,330
'cause it's important.
28
00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:10,679
- Okay.
29
00:01:10,766 --> 00:01:13,638
[wondrous music]
30
00:01:13,725 --> 00:01:20,645
♪ ♪
31
00:01:37,445 --> 00:01:39,664
- Of course,
when you say Automat
32
00:01:39,751 --> 00:01:41,492
or Horn & Hardart,
33
00:01:41,579 --> 00:01:44,539
very few people know
what you're talking about,
34
00:01:44,626 --> 00:01:47,107
but one
of the greatest inventions
35
00:01:47,194 --> 00:01:52,982
in insane centers of paradise
36
00:01:53,069 --> 00:01:57,943
were these places
that had little glass windows
37
00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:00,598
framed in brass with knobs.
38
00:02:00,685 --> 00:02:03,471
And if you put two nickels
into the slot
39
00:02:03,558 --> 00:02:07,866
next to the windows,
the windows would open up,
40
00:02:07,953 --> 00:02:11,522
and you could take out
a piece of lemon meringue pie
41
00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:15,613
for 10¢, and you could eat it.
42
00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:17,311
And that was called
the Automat.
43
00:02:17,398 --> 00:02:21,141
♪ ♪
44
00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:25,841
I suggest you do some narration
45
00:02:25,928 --> 00:02:30,019
at the beginning just--
to frame
46
00:02:30,106 --> 00:02:33,631
what you're gonna talk about,
you know, with pictures.
47
00:02:33,718 --> 00:02:35,503
You have enough pictures
of Automats?
48
00:02:35,590 --> 00:02:37,809
- [chuckles]
49
00:02:37,896 --> 00:02:40,290
How you doing, kid?
50
00:02:40,377 --> 00:02:42,553
Let me see
if I can help you out.
51
00:02:44,381 --> 00:02:45,774
- See that?
- All kinds of stuff.
52
00:02:45,861 --> 00:02:47,428
- Let me see.
- Look at that.
53
00:02:47,515 --> 00:02:48,994
- I didn't know
he had all this stuff.
54
00:02:49,081 --> 00:02:50,648
- Where did you get
all of these photos?
55
00:02:50,735 --> 00:02:52,737
- Every time
we built something,
56
00:02:52,824 --> 00:02:54,086
we always saved
all the pictures.
57
00:02:57,525 --> 00:03:00,745
- Sure,
but what possessed you?
58
00:03:00,832 --> 00:03:02,834
You're about 11.
59
00:03:02,921 --> 00:03:04,314
What--what made you even think
60
00:03:04,401 --> 00:03:06,403
about doing a show
about the Automat?
61
00:03:06,490 --> 00:03:08,449
[projector whirring]
62
00:03:08,536 --> 00:03:11,191
- Even though Horn & Hardart
only operated in two cities,
63
00:03:11,278 --> 00:03:14,281
in its day
and for many decades,
64
00:03:14,368 --> 00:03:16,021
it was the largest
restaurant chain in America
65
00:03:16,108 --> 00:03:17,371
by any measure.
66
00:03:17,458 --> 00:03:18,894
The number
of restaurants it had,
67
00:03:18,981 --> 00:03:21,026
the number of people
it served every day,
68
00:03:21,113 --> 00:03:23,507
the number of people
it employed.
69
00:03:23,594 --> 00:03:25,683
It was a true phenomenon
of its time.
70
00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:27,163
- Well, how about the Automat?
71
00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:28,686
I heard a lot about that place.
72
00:03:28,773 --> 00:03:31,733
- It was what Philadelphia
was all about.
73
00:03:31,820 --> 00:03:34,344
When you said Philadelphia,
you said Horn & Hardart.
74
00:03:34,431 --> 00:03:36,303
They were interchangeable.
75
00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:37,782
- When you thought
of the Automat,
76
00:03:37,869 --> 00:03:39,610
you thought of New York,
and vice versa.
77
00:03:39,697 --> 00:03:41,438
It was a tourist destination
78
00:03:41,525 --> 00:03:42,961
on par
with the Statue of Liberty.
79
00:03:43,048 --> 00:03:45,181
[horn honking]
80
00:03:45,268 --> 00:03:49,794
- The little cubicles that
the food would come out of...
81
00:03:49,881 --> 00:03:51,274
- Allow me.
82
00:03:51,361 --> 00:03:54,103
- I mean, I've never seen
anything like it.
83
00:03:54,190 --> 00:03:57,106
- It was the excitement,
discovery, surprise,
84
00:03:57,193 --> 00:04:00,762
and delight on my first visit
as a young boy
85
00:04:00,849 --> 00:04:04,679
that inspired me
to think about the experience
86
00:04:04,766 --> 00:04:07,595
I wanted to create
at Starbucks Coffee Company.
87
00:04:07,682 --> 00:04:09,901
- Is there anything else
that you want?
88
00:04:09,988 --> 00:04:11,599
- Yes, I'd like
another cup of coffee.
89
00:04:11,686 --> 00:04:13,253
- At your service.
90
00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:16,212
[light music]
91
00:04:16,299 --> 00:04:18,170
♪ ♪
92
00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:21,086
- I didn't realize how good
it was until, like,
93
00:04:21,173 --> 00:04:27,658
there were no more Automats,
and I miss them.
94
00:04:27,745 --> 00:04:29,617
You might be--
where would you show this?
95
00:04:29,704 --> 00:04:32,054
There are film festivals
all over,
96
00:04:32,141 --> 00:04:33,925
but do they show
this kind of thing?
97
00:04:34,012 --> 00:04:38,452
It'd have to be over an hour
for it to be a documentary
98
00:04:38,539 --> 00:04:40,758
in a--in a theater, you know?
99
00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:42,282
Is there anybody alive
from Horn & Hardart?
100
00:04:44,893 --> 00:04:46,503
- I'm standing at the corner
101
00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:49,550
of Third Avenue
and 42nd Street.
102
00:04:49,637 --> 00:04:54,903
This location was
the last Automat that existed.
103
00:04:54,990 --> 00:04:57,862
- Do you remember when
the last Automat closed?
104
00:04:57,949 --> 00:04:59,690
- Oh, yes.
105
00:04:59,777 --> 00:05:02,040
I closed it.
I'm the one who closed it.
106
00:05:03,041 --> 00:05:05,740
- The Automat closing,
unfortunately,
107
00:05:05,827 --> 00:05:09,221
said something about the way
that the world was going to be.
108
00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:14,183
They had been the most
optimistic imaginable places.
109
00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:17,055
[indistinct chatter]
110
00:05:17,142 --> 00:05:21,669
But an original Automat
converted to a Burger King.
111
00:05:21,756 --> 00:05:24,715
This was exactly the opposite.
112
00:05:24,802 --> 00:05:31,200
- I would like to give you
a turn button
113
00:05:31,287 --> 00:05:33,768
from the very last Automat.
114
00:05:33,855 --> 00:05:39,164
The employees were able
to take pieces of remembrance.
115
00:05:39,251 --> 00:05:40,427
I loved the Automat.
116
00:05:40,514 --> 00:05:44,474
♪ ♪
117
00:05:44,561 --> 00:05:47,042
Has anyone given you
any indication
118
00:05:47,129 --> 00:05:48,826
of what their thoughts were
as to why
119
00:05:48,913 --> 00:05:53,440
this whole demise
of the Automat came about?
120
00:05:53,527 --> 00:06:00,360
♪ ♪
121
00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:05,582
- Now, what do you wanna know?
122
00:06:05,669 --> 00:06:08,498
- What's your earliest memory
of going to the Automat?
123
00:06:08,585 --> 00:06:10,021
[soft music]
124
00:06:10,108 --> 00:06:14,504
- Well, I was born in 1926
in Williamsburg.
125
00:06:14,591 --> 00:06:16,724
That's Brooklyn.
126
00:06:16,811 --> 00:06:18,334
My brothers:
127
00:06:18,421 --> 00:06:20,162
Irving, firstborn,
128
00:06:20,249 --> 00:06:22,033
there in the back,
129
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,298
Lenny, Bernie,
and me, Melvin.
130
00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:29,954
♪ ♪
131
00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:33,262
We were little boys
in Brooklyn,
132
00:06:33,349 --> 00:06:38,485
but if you take the BMT
and you go across the bridge,
133
00:06:38,572 --> 00:06:40,835
you can get into
this paradise,
134
00:06:40,922 --> 00:06:43,577
this wonderland
called New York.
135
00:06:43,664 --> 00:06:44,795
We--we never called it
Manhattan.
136
00:06:44,882 --> 00:06:46,449
We called it New York.
137
00:06:46,536 --> 00:06:49,757
We were Brooklyn,
and they were New York.
138
00:06:49,844 --> 00:06:53,064
And we lived--all of us
lived to get to New York
139
00:06:53,151 --> 00:06:56,503
so that we could visit
the Automat.
140
00:06:56,590 --> 00:06:58,026
♪ ♪
141
00:06:58,113 --> 00:07:00,376
There is a thin--
I got a book at home.
142
00:07:00,463 --> 00:07:04,032
There is one little book
about the Automat.
143
00:07:04,119 --> 00:07:06,251
All about starting
in Philadelphia.
144
00:07:06,338 --> 00:07:10,821
♪ ♪
145
00:07:10,908 --> 00:07:13,955
- So who wants to do--
146
00:07:14,042 --> 00:07:15,522
Probably you should if she's--
147
00:07:15,609 --> 00:07:18,568
- Okay, I'll do--I'll do Horn.
Right. Okay.
148
00:07:18,655 --> 00:07:21,441
Well, Joe Horn came
from Philadelphia.
149
00:07:21,528 --> 00:07:23,530
His two brothers were
in the restaurant business,
150
00:07:23,617 --> 00:07:26,141
and he wanted
a restaurant, too,
151
00:07:26,228 --> 00:07:28,578
so he goes on
a cross-country trip
152
00:07:28,665 --> 00:07:30,928
all over the country
to just sort of figure out
153
00:07:31,015 --> 00:07:33,627
the kind of restaurant
he wanted.
154
00:07:33,714 --> 00:07:35,803
One day, he's in Boston
155
00:07:35,890 --> 00:07:39,459
and he goes to
Thompson's Spa for lunch,
156
00:07:39,546 --> 00:07:42,592
and he sees the way
the place is working,
157
00:07:42,679 --> 00:07:44,899
and he sees these people
being served coffee.
158
00:07:44,986 --> 00:07:48,424
The whole choreography
that just enchanted him,
159
00:07:48,511 --> 00:07:51,601
and the--the bulb clicked
in his head, and he said,
160
00:07:51,688 --> 00:07:55,692
"This is exactly the kind
of place I want to open."
161
00:07:55,779 --> 00:07:58,565
So he put an ad in the paper
162
00:07:58,652 --> 00:08:02,569
saying that he needed someone
to co-partner with him,
163
00:08:02,656 --> 00:08:06,442
and enter Frank Hardart.
164
00:08:06,529 --> 00:08:08,444
- My great-grandfather,
Frank Hardart,
165
00:08:08,531 --> 00:08:10,925
he spent his youth
in New Orleans
166
00:08:11,012 --> 00:08:13,580
working in the kitchens
of restaurants.
167
00:08:13,667 --> 00:08:17,105
- At the time, New Orleans was
the only city in the country
168
00:08:17,192 --> 00:08:21,892
that was making French pressed
or French drip coffee.
169
00:08:21,979 --> 00:08:24,242
He understood
how special it was,
170
00:08:24,329 --> 00:08:27,115
and he knew that once he got
the rest of the country
171
00:08:27,202 --> 00:08:29,944
to taste it,
they would appreciate it too.
172
00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:32,120
- So Frank came up
to Philadelphia
173
00:08:32,207 --> 00:08:34,775
on this mission
to get working in a restaurant
174
00:08:34,862 --> 00:08:37,255
and bring that coffee
from New Orleans
175
00:08:37,342 --> 00:08:39,823
to the city of brotherly love,
176
00:08:39,910 --> 00:08:42,478
but he faced
continual rejection
177
00:08:42,565 --> 00:08:47,962
until, as folklore has it,
he saw an ad in a newspaper.
178
00:08:48,049 --> 00:08:49,703
- And the rest is history.
- And the rest is history.
179
00:08:49,790 --> 00:08:52,009
- Yeah, exactly.
180
00:08:53,315 --> 00:08:56,710
They opened their first place
at 39 South 13th Street,
181
00:08:56,797 --> 00:08:58,407
but they didn't
have Automats yet.
182
00:08:58,494 --> 00:09:01,062
Frank was in the back
doing the cooking,
183
00:09:01,149 --> 00:09:05,153
and Joe was out front
tending to the customers.
184
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,158
- For Joe Horn,
courtesy was the word.
185
00:09:10,245 --> 00:09:13,509
He was the one driving home
how to create an environment
186
00:09:13,596 --> 00:09:15,511
that was all about
treating people well.
187
00:09:15,598 --> 00:09:17,557
- And Frank was focused
on making sure
188
00:09:17,644 --> 00:09:20,037
that everyone got to taste
that wonderful
189
00:09:20,124 --> 00:09:22,474
New Orleans coffee,
and it worked.
190
00:09:22,562 --> 00:09:23,737
[bell dinging]
191
00:09:23,824 --> 00:09:25,260
After a little while,
192
00:09:25,347 --> 00:09:26,478
they opened
another restaurant,
193
00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:30,047
and then another restaurant.
194
00:09:30,134 --> 00:09:31,875
- Around the time
Horn & Hardart were opening
195
00:09:31,962 --> 00:09:33,877
their first restaurants
in Philadelphia,
196
00:09:33,964 --> 00:09:36,227
the automatic restaurant
was showing up
197
00:09:36,314 --> 00:09:38,795
in various parts
of Northern Europe.
198
00:09:38,882 --> 00:09:41,668
These restaurants were
basically dumbwaiter systems
199
00:09:41,755 --> 00:09:45,280
where you would order something
in a dining room upstairs,
200
00:09:45,367 --> 00:09:47,543
and that order would be
conveyed to people downstairs
201
00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:48,762
who'd prepare the food
and then send it up
202
00:09:48,849 --> 00:09:50,459
via a small dumbwaiter.
203
00:09:50,546 --> 00:09:53,027
Frank Hardart discovered
this Automat in Germany
204
00:09:53,114 --> 00:09:55,420
and arranged to import
the entire Automat
205
00:09:55,507 --> 00:09:57,553
along with some engineers
to install it
206
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,294
in what was then
207
00:09:59,381 --> 00:10:01,252
the first automatic restaurant
in America.
208
00:10:01,339 --> 00:10:04,168
[swanky music]
209
00:10:04,255 --> 00:10:05,735
♪ ♪
210
00:10:05,822 --> 00:10:09,086
- So wait,
you're an Automat historian.
211
00:10:09,173 --> 00:10:11,480
How did you pick that
for your PhD dissertation?
212
00:10:11,567 --> 00:10:14,657
- That's not a--[laughs]
213
00:10:14,744 --> 00:10:16,659
So that--
214
00:10:16,746 --> 00:10:19,096
I chose the Automat
as a--as a topic.
215
00:10:19,183 --> 00:10:21,577
I was studying to become
a historian of technology.
216
00:10:21,664 --> 00:10:23,361
I needed a topic
for my dissertation,
217
00:10:23,448 --> 00:10:25,233
and I was in Amsterdam
at the time
218
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,931
when I stumbled
across the Automatiek.
219
00:10:28,018 --> 00:10:29,977
That triggered
this vague memory
220
00:10:30,064 --> 00:10:32,893
because my parents took me
to one of--this restaurant
221
00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:35,330
that I thought had
had the same sort of machine,
222
00:10:35,417 --> 00:10:37,724
and when I returned,
I started researching,
223
00:10:37,811 --> 00:10:39,073
and only to discover that
224
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,031
that wasn't
just any restaurant.
225
00:10:41,118 --> 00:10:43,338
That was Horn & Hardart,
226
00:10:43,425 --> 00:10:45,819
and I had my chance
to, like any other kid,
227
00:10:45,906 --> 00:10:48,778
choose from the dozens
and dozens of boxes.
228
00:10:53,957 --> 00:10:55,480
This was the last Automat,
229
00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:59,659
the fourth generation
of that machine.
230
00:10:59,746 --> 00:11:01,443
The first generation
was the one
231
00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:04,359
that Hardart himself
brought back from Germany.
232
00:11:04,446 --> 00:11:06,448
- What is, in effect,
233
00:11:06,535 --> 00:11:09,059
the first Horn & Hardart
cafeteria
234
00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:12,323
was not really efficient.
235
00:11:12,410 --> 00:11:14,499
Fortunately, Horn & Hardart
236
00:11:14,586 --> 00:11:17,981
had a chief engineer
named John Fritsche.
237
00:11:18,068 --> 00:11:19,504
- Fritsche developed
a lot of patents
238
00:11:19,591 --> 00:11:22,377
related to
the Automat technology.
239
00:11:22,464 --> 00:11:25,249
He introduced the fundamental
innovation of the drum.
240
00:11:25,336 --> 00:11:28,992
He found ways to make them
hold both hot and cold food.
241
00:11:29,079 --> 00:11:31,865
He changed the way
the coin slots worked.
242
00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:35,042
- Fritsche came up with
the vending machine wall
243
00:11:35,129 --> 00:11:38,567
and all the little doors.
244
00:11:38,654 --> 00:11:40,612
- America at this time
had a real fascination
245
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,832
with machine-age technology,
246
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:46,314
and anything that acted like
that had a big attraction.
247
00:11:46,401 --> 00:11:49,099
And very quickly,
Horn & Hardart's new Automat
248
00:11:49,186 --> 00:11:51,536
was a success in Philadelphia.
249
00:11:51,623 --> 00:11:55,584
[bright sweeping music]
250
00:11:55,671 --> 00:11:58,892
And the decision to expand to
New York was an obvious one.
251
00:11:58,979 --> 00:12:02,199
It was the next really large
industrial urban center.
252
00:12:02,286 --> 00:12:04,245
♪ ♪
253
00:12:04,332 --> 00:12:05,942
- And that was the beginning
of one
254
00:12:06,029 --> 00:12:08,249
of the most successful
restaurant chains
255
00:12:08,336 --> 00:12:09,816
in America ever.
256
00:12:09,903 --> 00:12:11,731
♪ ♪
257
00:12:11,818 --> 00:12:13,950
- My big brother, Irving,
used to come at the beginning
258
00:12:14,037 --> 00:12:15,865
when I was very little,
259
00:12:15,952 --> 00:12:19,608
and he would dole out
whatever it was,
260
00:12:19,695 --> 00:12:22,045
five nickels to each of us.
261
00:12:22,132 --> 00:12:23,917
That was our lunch.
262
00:12:24,004 --> 00:12:26,310
We had to figure out
what we could get for that,
263
00:12:26,397 --> 00:12:28,704
'cause we were poor, you know?
264
00:12:28,791 --> 00:12:31,620
No money,
but that was the great thing
265
00:12:31,707 --> 00:12:33,100
about the Automat.
266
00:12:33,187 --> 00:12:34,188
You didn't need
a lot of money.
267
00:12:34,275 --> 00:12:35,624
You needed a lot of nickels,
268
00:12:35,711 --> 00:12:36,886
but you didn't need
a lot of money.
269
00:12:37,495 --> 00:12:40,324
[peppy piano music]
270
00:12:40,411 --> 00:12:47,288
♪ ♪
271
00:13:07,003 --> 00:13:08,788
- All right. Recording.
272
00:13:08,875 --> 00:13:11,921
- Okay, Lisa Keller. Take one.
273
00:13:12,008 --> 00:13:13,923
The question is, the Automat
274
00:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,970
hasn't been an active
cultural force in decades,
275
00:13:17,057 --> 00:13:19,711
but it's something that still
resonates with New Yorkers,
276
00:13:19,799 --> 00:13:22,192
and why is that?
277
00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:24,368
- Horn & Hardart--oh, okay.
278
00:13:24,455 --> 00:13:25,935
Let me start at the beginning.
279
00:13:29,504 --> 00:13:32,899
Horn & Hardart
is a cultural icon in New York.
280
00:13:34,770 --> 00:13:38,687
In the immigration wave
from 1880 to 1920,
281
00:13:38,774 --> 00:13:42,212
the immigrants
who came to New York
282
00:13:42,299 --> 00:13:45,346
were looking
for something American,
283
00:13:45,433 --> 00:13:51,004
and Horn & Hardart served
as an Americanization process.
284
00:13:51,091 --> 00:13:53,180
If you could go there,
you could feel like
285
00:13:53,267 --> 00:13:57,967
you were part of
the larger American stream.
286
00:13:58,054 --> 00:14:00,665
Horn & Hardart,
like the subways linked us
287
00:14:00,752 --> 00:14:03,799
and were universally
accessible,
288
00:14:03,886 --> 00:14:05,409
didn't matter whether
you were rich or poor.
289
00:14:05,496 --> 00:14:07,672
When you had to travel,
you took a subway.
290
00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:12,199
When you had to eat, you went
to the Horn & Hardart.
291
00:14:12,286 --> 00:14:13,678
We know you don't need English
292
00:14:13,765 --> 00:14:16,638
because nobody has to speak.
293
00:14:16,725 --> 00:14:18,858
In a land of foreigners,
294
00:14:18,945 --> 00:14:22,035
that became a place
of identification,
295
00:14:22,122 --> 00:14:25,821
and you feel almost patriotic.
296
00:14:25,908 --> 00:14:28,824
[soft music]
297
00:14:28,911 --> 00:14:35,222
♪ ♪
298
00:14:35,309 --> 00:14:37,877
- At that same time,
a new class of clientele
299
00:14:37,964 --> 00:14:39,748
started to come in the cities,
300
00:14:39,835 --> 00:14:42,403
drawn in by the new office work
that was being created.
301
00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:44,231
They started flooding
into cafeterias
302
00:14:44,318 --> 00:14:46,233
and into the Automats.
303
00:14:47,321 --> 00:14:50,280
- Women were just coming
into the workforce.
304
00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:52,326
They were stenographers.
They were sales clerks.
305
00:14:52,413 --> 00:14:54,545
They were secretaries.
306
00:14:54,632 --> 00:14:57,897
- Between the 1880s
and 1920 or so,
307
00:14:57,984 --> 00:14:59,202
the number of stenographers
in New York City
308
00:14:59,289 --> 00:15:03,119
jumped from 5,000 to 300,000.
309
00:15:03,206 --> 00:15:04,816
This enormous growth
310
00:15:04,904 --> 00:15:06,906
in the number of women
in the workforce
311
00:15:06,993 --> 00:15:08,559
meant that there was enormous
growth in the number of women
312
00:15:08,646 --> 00:15:10,779
who needed to eat lunch
out of their homes.
313
00:15:10,866 --> 00:15:13,564
- Well, I've had my lunch.
- Good.
314
00:15:13,651 --> 00:15:15,001
- But I'll go with you.
315
00:15:15,088 --> 00:15:16,741
- Not so good.
316
00:15:16,828 --> 00:15:19,962
- Social custom
was changing slowly.
317
00:15:20,049 --> 00:15:24,227
Women started being able
to go out to eat on their own,
318
00:15:24,314 --> 00:15:28,536
and women of the 1920s
went to Horn & Hardart.
319
00:15:28,623 --> 00:15:31,234
It was a place a woman would
feel comfortable and safe,
320
00:15:31,321 --> 00:15:33,367
and they had good quality food.
321
00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:35,064
- Yeah, and they didn't have
to worry about tipping.
322
00:15:35,151 --> 00:15:37,675
- That was a great thing
about the Automat.
323
00:15:37,762 --> 00:15:40,069
You never had to tip.
324
00:15:40,156 --> 00:15:42,115
- It's a very
important marriage
325
00:15:42,202 --> 00:15:45,205
between that--the time
it came into being
326
00:15:45,292 --> 00:15:49,600
and the sensibilities of women
in the workforce.
327
00:15:49,687 --> 00:15:51,689
- At that point,
Horn & Hardart in New York,
328
00:15:51,776 --> 00:15:54,301
which had been growing less
quickly than Philadelphia,
329
00:15:54,388 --> 00:15:57,608
started growing very rapidly,
and before long,
330
00:15:57,695 --> 00:16:00,481
there were a couple of dozen
of them throughout the city.
331
00:16:00,568 --> 00:16:03,440
[bright music]
332
00:16:03,527 --> 00:16:06,922
♪ ♪
333
00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:09,925
[soft music]
334
00:16:10,012 --> 00:16:15,626
♪ ♪
335
00:16:15,713 --> 00:16:17,628
- I'll tell you,
336
00:16:17,715 --> 00:16:21,328
the Automat had panache.
337
00:16:21,415 --> 00:16:22,938
The ceilings were big.
338
00:16:23,025 --> 00:16:25,114
- These were
enormous buildings.
339
00:16:25,201 --> 00:16:27,725
- Sometimes
there was a half balcony.
340
00:16:27,812 --> 00:16:29,205
- Grandiose design.
341
00:16:29,292 --> 00:16:32,600
- The floors were
pristine white marble.
342
00:16:32,687 --> 00:16:35,211
- Brass frames
on the little windows.
343
00:16:35,298 --> 00:16:36,560
- Those little doors
344
00:16:36,647 --> 00:16:39,955
and those Carrara
marble tables.
345
00:16:40,042 --> 00:16:41,957
- When you looked
at the interior,
346
00:16:42,044 --> 00:16:43,524
you felt that you
could dance in them.
347
00:16:43,611 --> 00:16:46,614
- And those dolphin spouts,
348
00:16:46,701 --> 00:16:50,966
nowhere was there
anything like that.
349
00:16:51,053 --> 00:16:53,838
- When did the dolphin heads
come about?
350
00:16:53,925 --> 00:16:55,797
- Yeah, well,
they were inspired
351
00:16:55,884 --> 00:17:00,149
by Italian fountains with
mythological sea creatures.
352
00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:01,803
- Joe Horn,
on a trip to Italy,
353
00:17:01,890 --> 00:17:04,197
had happened to spot
these statutes and says,
354
00:17:04,284 --> 00:17:06,938
"Oh, that's gonna be
my coffee spout."
355
00:17:09,593 --> 00:17:11,508
So that's
where they came from,
356
00:17:11,595 --> 00:17:14,076
but I love the fact
that these two men,
357
00:17:14,163 --> 00:17:16,470
Joseph Horn and Frank Hardart,
358
00:17:16,557 --> 00:17:19,168
built this beautiful,
beautiful space.
359
00:17:19,255 --> 00:17:22,128
All of that beauty so that
someone could walk in there
360
00:17:22,215 --> 00:17:24,434
with a handful of nickels
361
00:17:24,521 --> 00:17:27,481
and get themselves
a cup of coffee or some food.
362
00:17:27,568 --> 00:17:30,484
[light music]
363
00:17:30,571 --> 00:17:35,532
♪ ♪
364
00:17:35,619 --> 00:17:38,448
- In 1918,
through a twist of fate,
365
00:17:38,535 --> 00:17:42,800
just as the Automat came into
its own, Frank Hardart died.
366
00:17:42,887 --> 00:17:47,022
♪ ♪
367
00:17:47,109 --> 00:17:51,374
- My great-grandfather Frank
left the company to his sons,
368
00:17:51,461 --> 00:17:54,812
Augustin and Frank,
in New York City.
369
00:17:54,899 --> 00:17:59,382
So it stayed close
in the family.
370
00:17:59,469 --> 00:18:01,645
But at that point,
it had really become
371
00:18:01,732 --> 00:18:06,520
the Hardarts in New York
and the Horns in Philadelphia
372
00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:10,915
because Joe Horn did not want
to come to New York.
373
00:18:11,002 --> 00:18:13,179
Joe Horn
did not like New York.
374
00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:16,878
♪ ♪
375
00:18:16,965 --> 00:18:19,968
- Mr. Horn was very much
a Philadelphian.
376
00:18:20,055 --> 00:18:21,578
As a matter of fact,
377
00:18:21,665 --> 00:18:23,276
at the end of a long day
in New York,
378
00:18:23,363 --> 00:18:25,060
he would look at everybody
and say,
379
00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:27,671
"Thank God for the train
to Philadelphia."
380
00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:30,152
[laughing softly]
381
00:18:30,239 --> 00:18:32,502
My name is Edwin K. Daly Jr.
382
00:18:32,589 --> 00:18:35,766
I'm the son of the president
of Horn & Hardart,
383
00:18:35,853 --> 00:18:37,377
Edwin K. Daly,
who was president
384
00:18:37,464 --> 00:18:42,121
in New York from 1937 to 1960.
385
00:18:42,208 --> 00:18:44,297
- On the phone,
when you spoke of Joe Horn,
386
00:18:44,384 --> 00:18:46,690
you said you met him
when you were young.
387
00:18:46,777 --> 00:18:49,911
- I certainly met him
50 or 60 times.
388
00:18:49,998 --> 00:18:54,133
To be clear, though,
he was called Mr. Horn.
389
00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:58,659
Nobody within range of him
referred to him as Joe Horn.
390
00:18:58,746 --> 00:19:01,531
He'd have clobbered
somebody who did.
391
00:19:01,618 --> 00:19:05,970
Mr. Horn
was a very formal man,
392
00:19:06,057 --> 00:19:08,147
very genial, very pleasant,
393
00:19:08,234 --> 00:19:10,323
but very definitely
commanding person.
394
00:19:12,673 --> 00:19:15,850
I always found him very nice.
395
00:19:17,721 --> 00:19:20,202
He certainly established
the company's tradition
396
00:19:20,289 --> 00:19:21,899
of making certain
that Horn & Hardart
397
00:19:21,986 --> 00:19:24,293
was looking out
for its employees.
398
00:19:25,555 --> 00:19:27,209
- For Joe Horn,
399
00:19:27,296 --> 00:19:30,038
right from the start,
loyalty was a trademark.
400
00:19:30,125 --> 00:19:32,649
- Joseph Horn actually
wanted his employees
401
00:19:32,736 --> 00:19:34,956
to bring their troubles to him.
402
00:19:35,043 --> 00:19:37,959
If he could help them
in any way, he would.
403
00:19:38,046 --> 00:19:41,049
- The Horns and the Hardarts,
they went to the wakes.
404
00:19:41,136 --> 00:19:44,095
They went to the weddings.
They went to the funerals.
405
00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:45,706
They had holiday parties.
406
00:19:45,793 --> 00:19:48,274
[upbeat piano music]
407
00:19:48,361 --> 00:19:49,971
You became a member
of a family
408
00:19:50,058 --> 00:19:53,279
when you were employed
at Horn & Hardart.
409
00:19:53,366 --> 00:19:55,368
- Joseph Horn started
a foundation
410
00:19:55,455 --> 00:19:57,544
so that when his employees
were short of money,
411
00:19:57,631 --> 00:19:59,459
missed a mortgage payment,
412
00:19:59,546 --> 00:20:01,852
or anything like that,
he was there to help them.
413
00:20:01,939 --> 00:20:03,898
- And that inspired loyalty
414
00:20:03,985 --> 00:20:07,597
that went beyond
one generation.
415
00:20:07,684 --> 00:20:10,513
- That was the great strength
of the company.
416
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,385
People knew
they were cared about.
417
00:20:12,472 --> 00:20:19,348
♪ ♪
418
00:20:21,829 --> 00:20:23,744
[utensils clinking]
419
00:20:23,831 --> 00:20:25,572
[indistinct chatter]
420
00:20:25,659 --> 00:20:29,097
- There was a stern woman
with a red face,
421
00:20:29,184 --> 00:20:31,708
and her hair piled up,
422
00:20:31,795 --> 00:20:34,624
and she had a little booth,
423
00:20:34,711 --> 00:20:38,062
and the booth had wood,
and the wood was very smooth
424
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:41,283
'cause she used it every day,
425
00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:45,156
changing dollars into nickels.
426
00:20:45,244 --> 00:20:47,724
And when my brother, Irving,
427
00:20:47,811 --> 00:20:50,379
gave her a dollar
for all our nickels,
428
00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:52,599
she just reached behind her.
429
00:20:52,686 --> 00:20:54,253
Didn't count a thing.
430
00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:57,778
She grabbed from a bag
a bunch of nickels,
431
00:20:57,865 --> 00:20:59,910
and it was always 20 nickels.
432
00:20:59,997 --> 00:21:01,477
Just flipped them.
433
00:21:01,564 --> 00:21:05,264
It was just magic,
which thrilled me.
434
00:21:05,351 --> 00:21:09,224
[indistinct chatter]
435
00:21:09,311 --> 00:21:11,487
I said, "I wish I had
something like that."
436
00:21:11,574 --> 00:21:15,578
One day, I used to dream,
I would have a gift
437
00:21:15,665 --> 00:21:18,755
to stick my hand
and come up with 20 nickels.
438
00:21:18,842 --> 00:21:20,670
[projector whirring]
439
00:21:20,757 --> 00:21:22,629
[coins clinking]
440
00:21:24,108 --> 00:21:25,719
- Look at that.
441
00:21:25,806 --> 00:21:27,634
We had a machine
that counted the nickels.
442
00:21:27,721 --> 00:21:29,244
- Oh!
- Look at this.
443
00:21:29,331 --> 00:21:32,465
- There you go. Cool.
444
00:21:32,552 --> 00:21:34,641
So you had to make sure
all of that worked okay?
445
00:21:34,728 --> 00:21:36,947
- Oh, yeah,
or they'd lose money.
446
00:21:37,034 --> 00:21:38,297
- Oh, wow.
447
00:21:44,955 --> 00:21:47,349
- Oh, there you go. Up here.
448
00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:50,613
Remember that sign?
449
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:51,745
- There it is. Sure.
450
00:21:51,832 --> 00:21:54,661
These are all your drums.
451
00:21:57,751 --> 00:22:00,536
- How many years were you?
40 plus?
452
00:22:00,623 --> 00:22:02,756
- 44--45.
453
00:22:02,843 --> 00:22:04,714
- And Dad--
- My father had--
454
00:22:04,801 --> 00:22:06,020
- Was 44?
455
00:22:06,107 --> 00:22:08,196
- Yeah.
456
00:22:08,283 --> 00:22:10,111
My father
was one of the first guys
457
00:22:10,198 --> 00:22:12,287
working for the company
Horn & Hardart,
458
00:22:12,374 --> 00:22:17,510
and I used to come to New York
with him to help him out,
459
00:22:17,597 --> 00:22:20,600
so I learned a lot about
the Horn & Hardart equipment
460
00:22:20,687 --> 00:22:21,905
and how it operated.
461
00:22:21,992 --> 00:22:23,994
[projector whirring]
462
00:22:24,081 --> 00:22:25,431
There's--there's the back,
see?
463
00:22:25,518 --> 00:22:26,736
- Yeah.
- Can you do that?
464
00:22:26,823 --> 00:22:28,434
- Got you.
- I guess--
465
00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:29,478
I'm in charge of all those--
all those drums
466
00:22:29,565 --> 00:22:30,827
and stainless steel stuff.
467
00:22:30,914 --> 00:22:32,916
Look at that.
468
00:22:33,003 --> 00:22:34,135
There's--there's your coffee,
see?
469
00:22:34,222 --> 00:22:35,658
- Yeah.
470
00:22:35,745 --> 00:22:38,095
- Coming out
of my dolphin head.
471
00:22:38,182 --> 00:22:40,141
I have one upstairs.
472
00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:43,274
There's my dolphin head.
473
00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:44,972
It's amazing, huh?
474
00:22:47,931 --> 00:22:51,892
- You put a nickel
into a kind of dolphin...
475
00:22:51,979 --> 00:22:54,503
- And you put a cup underneath
the dolphin head's mouth...
476
00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:57,027
- And you push
the dolphin's tail.
477
00:22:57,114 --> 00:22:59,421
- There's a tube
that comes out of the mouth
478
00:22:59,508 --> 00:23:01,510
that goes into the back,
to the machine...
479
00:23:01,597 --> 00:23:05,079
- And coffee would come
into a thick little cup.
480
00:23:05,166 --> 00:23:07,211
- Very hot. [laughs]
481
00:23:07,298 --> 00:23:11,346
- Then, right at the end,
in an unseen little spigot,
482
00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:13,043
milk would come,
483
00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:16,133
and it would just be
a perfect cup of coffee.
484
00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:18,919
- It was very tasty coffee.
485
00:23:19,006 --> 00:23:20,921
- I've been to Paris.
I've been to Vienna.
486
00:23:21,008 --> 00:23:24,794
I've paid $35
for a cup of coffee.
487
00:23:24,881 --> 00:23:30,060
Not half as good as that
nickel Horn & Hardart coffee.
488
00:23:30,147 --> 00:23:32,236
And if I could save
enough nickels,
489
00:23:32,323 --> 00:23:33,934
I could have two cups.
490
00:23:34,021 --> 00:23:35,936
[indistinct chatter]
491
00:23:36,023 --> 00:23:39,592
[projector whirring]
492
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:40,984
- There's--there's the back.
See it?
493
00:23:41,071 --> 00:23:42,029
- Yeah.
- How it'd do that?
494
00:23:42,116 --> 00:23:43,944
- Yep. Got you.
495
00:23:44,031 --> 00:23:46,337
- It was my responsibility,
if any machine broke,
496
00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:49,428
those machines
gotta operate right away.
497
00:23:49,515 --> 00:23:50,951
And there's a lot of machines.
498
00:23:51,038 --> 00:23:53,649
[upbeat music]
499
00:23:53,736 --> 00:23:58,045
- These things were made
incredibly solidly.
500
00:23:58,132 --> 00:24:00,134
Some of them were made
out of solid brass.
501
00:24:00,221 --> 00:24:02,658
Some of them were made
out of solid nickel.
502
00:24:02,745 --> 00:24:05,835
Well, I was an architecturals
dealer in New York City,
503
00:24:05,922 --> 00:24:10,449
and one day, a scrap dealer
pulled up in his van,
504
00:24:10,536 --> 00:24:12,625
and he said,
505
00:24:12,712 --> 00:24:14,627
"Take a look at this.
You interested in this stuff?"
506
00:24:14,714 --> 00:24:16,106
♪ ♪
507
00:24:16,193 --> 00:24:17,978
And it was the Automats,
508
00:24:18,065 --> 00:24:19,501
and he had already taken them
509
00:24:19,588 --> 00:24:20,981
to all
the architectural dealers,
510
00:24:21,068 --> 00:24:23,113
and some of them bought one.
511
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,463
I told him I'd take them all.
512
00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:26,769
♪ ♪
513
00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:30,294
So I was restoring
these machines.
514
00:24:30,381 --> 00:24:32,296
I had six of them
in my window.
515
00:24:32,383 --> 00:24:33,863
And on a daily basis,
516
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:35,865
somebody would walk
into my shop
517
00:24:35,952 --> 00:24:39,086
with their jaw hanging down,
asking,
518
00:24:39,173 --> 00:24:43,046
"Is that what I think it is?
Is that the Automat?"
519
00:24:43,133 --> 00:24:45,658
And so many of them
had such strong feelings.
520
00:24:45,745 --> 00:24:48,312
I began to look
into the history
521
00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:50,053
as deeply as I could.
522
00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:52,099
♪ ♪
523
00:24:52,186 --> 00:24:56,277
And my responsibility,
I think, about the Automat,
524
00:24:56,364 --> 00:24:58,975
has more to do
with the--the concept
525
00:24:59,062 --> 00:25:02,936
of the Automat than it does
the machines themselves.
526
00:25:03,023 --> 00:25:05,939
It started with
a set of principles.
527
00:25:06,026 --> 00:25:08,028
Mr. Horn and Mr. Hardart said,
528
00:25:08,115 --> 00:25:11,379
"You can do something
the right way.
529
00:25:11,466 --> 00:25:13,947
"You don't have to compromise.
530
00:25:14,034 --> 00:25:18,299
"It's harder that way,
it's more work,
531
00:25:18,386 --> 00:25:21,868
but you can do it,
and you ought to do it."
532
00:25:21,955 --> 00:25:23,739
That's what they said,
533
00:25:23,826 --> 00:25:25,915
and then they proved it
by doing it.
534
00:25:26,002 --> 00:25:28,831
[projector whirring]
535
00:25:31,878 --> 00:25:33,444
- Around the turn
of the century,
536
00:25:33,532 --> 00:25:35,098
Horn & Hardart
were already operating
537
00:25:35,185 --> 00:25:38,145
a small chain of stores,
vending mostly baked goods.
538
00:25:38,232 --> 00:25:39,886
[pleasant music]
539
00:25:39,973 --> 00:25:41,583
The problem they had
was that each store
540
00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,150
was making its own baked goods
541
00:25:43,237 --> 00:25:44,717
and they didn't have
the consistency
542
00:25:44,804 --> 00:25:46,109
and the high level of quality
they wanted
543
00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:48,155
from one store to the other.
544
00:25:48,242 --> 00:25:51,680
This is what drove them to
start on the commissary model,
545
00:25:51,767 --> 00:25:53,900
the centralization
of the food preparation
546
00:25:53,987 --> 00:25:57,033
for the entire system.
547
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,948
- Oh, the Horn & Hardart
bakery,
548
00:25:59,035 --> 00:26:00,384
you remember the bakery, Dad?
549
00:26:00,471 --> 00:26:03,474
- 11th--to 12th Avenue.
550
00:26:03,562 --> 00:26:06,042
That's where all
the food came from.
551
00:26:06,129 --> 00:26:08,392
- Not all,
let's be clear on that.
552
00:26:08,479 --> 00:26:10,786
There was cooking
in the restaurant,
553
00:26:10,873 --> 00:26:14,181
but a great deal of the food
was prepared,
554
00:26:14,268 --> 00:26:16,226
and all of the baked goods,
of course,
555
00:26:16,313 --> 00:26:18,402
in a central commissary.
556
00:26:18,489 --> 00:26:19,882
- With their commissary,
557
00:26:19,969 --> 00:26:23,494
they could make
2,400 pies an hour.
558
00:26:23,582 --> 00:26:26,062
And what Horn & Hardart
realized
559
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:29,065
was if you did something
on a large enough scale,
560
00:26:29,152 --> 00:26:33,156
you could give people prices
they could afford.
561
00:26:33,243 --> 00:26:35,985
- But, to be clear,
it was all about quality.
562
00:26:36,072 --> 00:26:38,379
They had the sample table
every day
563
00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:41,730
in which the management
tasted the food
564
00:26:41,817 --> 00:26:43,427
that was coming
out of the bakery
565
00:26:43,514 --> 00:26:45,255
to make sure that the public
was getting
566
00:26:45,342 --> 00:26:48,084
what the public
was supposed to be getting.
567
00:26:48,171 --> 00:26:50,173
- The trucks supplying
the restaurants
568
00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:51,914
numbered in the hundreds
in each city
569
00:26:52,001 --> 00:26:54,134
and drove something
like 2,000 miles a day.
570
00:26:54,221 --> 00:26:56,919
- So everything was fresh
and seasonal.
571
00:26:57,006 --> 00:26:59,269
- It was real.
- Seasonal was important,
572
00:26:59,356 --> 00:27:01,707
because that's also the way
they kept the cost down,
573
00:27:01,794 --> 00:27:04,100
because they could buy
seasonal in bulk.
574
00:27:04,187 --> 00:27:06,059
♪ ♪
575
00:27:06,146 --> 00:27:08,888
And that's why, if you didn't
have the commissaries,
576
00:27:08,975 --> 00:27:12,543
you wouldn't have
a Horn & Hardart Automat.
577
00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:14,676
♪ ♪
578
00:27:15,416 --> 00:27:17,679
- The 1930s brought
the Great Depression,
579
00:27:17,766 --> 00:27:20,639
which was damaging
to almost every business.
580
00:27:20,726 --> 00:27:22,684
Horn & Hardart
was a notable exception.
581
00:27:22,771 --> 00:27:25,644
[indistinct chatter]
582
00:27:28,734 --> 00:27:30,518
[soft music]
583
00:27:30,605 --> 00:27:32,825
- The Automat
was a welcoming, warm place
584
00:27:32,912 --> 00:27:35,305
in the worst of times.
585
00:27:35,392 --> 00:27:38,308
It appealed to the poor
and downtrodden
586
00:27:38,395 --> 00:27:41,311
because, for a nickel,
you could get a lot.
587
00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:44,010
- We were providing good,
cheap, quality food
588
00:27:44,097 --> 00:27:45,402
when people didn't have
589
00:27:45,489 --> 00:27:47,622
a whole lot of money
in their pockets.
590
00:27:47,709 --> 00:27:49,319
- Because of its economies
of scale,
591
00:27:49,406 --> 00:27:51,017
because of its ability
592
00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:54,977
to tap into these values
of thrift and abundance,
593
00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:57,066
Horn & Hardart's restaurants
became a beacon and light
594
00:27:57,153 --> 00:28:00,548
in what was otherwise
a really dark decade.
595
00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:03,246
Irving Berlin captured this
by having the Vanderbilts
596
00:28:03,333 --> 00:28:06,728
and others of the very rich
dining in the Automat.
597
00:28:06,815 --> 00:28:09,426
- There was Irving Berlin
"Face the Music,"
598
00:28:09,513 --> 00:28:12,952
and the great song
that came from that was...
599
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:15,955
♪ Let's have
another cup of coffee ♪
600
00:28:16,042 --> 00:28:18,827
♪ And let's have
another piece of pie ♪
601
00:28:18,914 --> 00:28:21,961
[upbeat music]
602
00:28:22,048 --> 00:28:28,881
♪ ♪
603
00:28:36,932 --> 00:28:38,673
[crowd chanting indistinctly]
604
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,241
- 1935 in New York,
605
00:28:41,328 --> 00:28:44,200
and you will recall
that that was an era
606
00:28:44,287 --> 00:28:46,942
of a good bit of labor unrest
to begin with.
607
00:28:48,857 --> 00:28:51,164
There was a unionizing
campaign at that time
608
00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:54,733
which involved
some Horn & Hardart employees.
609
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:56,647
It was quite violent.
610
00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:59,650
[somber music]
611
00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:05,395
♪ ♪
612
00:29:05,482 --> 00:29:07,876
In the end, it didn't work.
613
00:29:07,963 --> 00:29:09,965
That's the simplest way
I can put it.
614
00:29:10,052 --> 00:29:12,272
Our employees stood by us.
615
00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:13,795
They were loyal
to the company.
616
00:29:13,882 --> 00:29:15,275
The company
had been loyal to them.
617
00:29:15,362 --> 00:29:18,278
[upbeat music]
618
00:29:18,365 --> 00:29:25,241
♪ ♪
619
00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:31,682
By 1941, Mr. Horn had been
ill for quite some time.
620
00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:34,120
♪ ♪
621
00:29:34,207 --> 00:29:36,905
It was very clear
he was going to die.
622
00:29:36,992 --> 00:29:38,602
The day before he died,
623
00:29:38,689 --> 00:29:40,387
Mr. Horn said,
"Look, I know I'm gonna die.
624
00:29:40,474 --> 00:29:42,302
"Get me a Horn & Hardart
beef pie.
625
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:44,086
I wanna eat that."
626
00:29:44,173 --> 00:29:45,740
And he did.
627
00:29:45,827 --> 00:29:47,481
It helped him die happy.
628
00:29:48,874 --> 00:29:51,572
[soft music]
629
00:29:51,659 --> 00:29:53,792
- Horn had no children,
no successors,
630
00:29:53,879 --> 00:29:55,576
but he had been very careful
to groom
631
00:29:55,663 --> 00:29:57,230
one man to take over
in his place.
632
00:29:57,317 --> 00:29:59,667
♪ ♪
633
00:29:59,754 --> 00:30:01,800
- My father understood
financial matters.
634
00:30:01,887 --> 00:30:04,715
He had the training.
He had a broad vision.
635
00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:06,369
He was intensely loyal
to the company,
636
00:30:06,456 --> 00:30:07,762
and Mr. Horn knew that.
637
00:30:07,849 --> 00:30:09,503
- When Daly took over
from Horn
638
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:12,898
after his death in 1941,
639
00:30:12,985 --> 00:30:14,595
the Horn & Hardart Company
expanded
640
00:30:14,682 --> 00:30:16,727
even faster
than they had previously.
641
00:30:16,815 --> 00:30:19,730
[light music]
642
00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:26,650
♪ ♪
643
00:30:28,304 --> 00:30:31,699
- This was a period
with a great deal of growth.
644
00:30:31,786 --> 00:30:34,484
As a matter of fact,
during the Second World War,
645
00:30:34,571 --> 00:30:37,139
Horn & Hardart supplied
the food on the troopships.
646
00:30:37,226 --> 00:30:40,012
So when the Queen Elizabeth
or the Queen Mary
647
00:30:40,099 --> 00:30:43,580
went out of New York
carrying troops,
648
00:30:43,667 --> 00:30:45,756
they were eating
Horn & Hardart food.
649
00:30:45,844 --> 00:30:48,237
♪ ♪
650
00:30:48,324 --> 00:30:50,283
- The 1940s and early '50s
651
00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:51,937
was Horn & Hardart
at its finest.
652
00:30:52,024 --> 00:30:53,895
♪ ♪
653
00:30:53,982 --> 00:30:58,857
- In 1953, the company
served 2,206,000 beef pies,
654
00:30:58,944 --> 00:31:04,863
1,427,000 chicken pies,
10,652,000 dessert pies,
655
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:10,825
3,388,000 hamburgers,
4,886,000 chopped sirloins,
656
00:31:10,912 --> 00:31:16,700
6,527,000 loaves of bread,
314,000 gallons of baked beans
657
00:31:16,787 --> 00:31:21,270
and 2,355,000 pounds
of macaroni.
658
00:31:21,357 --> 00:31:23,098
That's a lot of food.
659
00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:26,754
And they were feeding
800,000 people a day.
660
00:31:26,841 --> 00:31:28,625
- At this time, in terms
661
00:31:28,712 --> 00:31:30,540
of the volume of business
that they were doing,
662
00:31:30,627 --> 00:31:32,412
in terms of the number
of seats,
663
00:31:32,499 --> 00:31:33,979
the number of people
who were being served,
664
00:31:34,066 --> 00:31:35,589
there wasn't anything
to compare
665
00:31:35,676 --> 00:31:37,504
with the Horn & Hardart
Automat.
666
00:31:37,591 --> 00:31:42,378
♪ ♪
667
00:31:42,465 --> 00:31:44,424
- Looks pretty fancy, Fred.
668
00:31:44,511 --> 00:31:46,817
- Yeah, you get your food
by putting coins in a slot.
669
00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:50,082
♪ ♪
670
00:31:50,169 --> 00:31:51,431
- Hey, got a nickel, Mac?
671
00:31:51,518 --> 00:31:53,041
- Huh? Oh, yeah.
672
00:31:53,128 --> 00:31:54,869
- Thanks.
673
00:31:57,698 --> 00:32:00,527
[soft piano music]
674
00:32:00,614 --> 00:32:02,094
♪ ♪
675
00:32:02,181 --> 00:32:05,140
- On Saturdays,
I took piano lessons
676
00:32:05,227 --> 00:32:08,839
on West 73rd Street,
677
00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:13,192
and on 72nd Street
was an Automat.
678
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:16,717
I could usually
find a table upstairs
679
00:32:16,804 --> 00:32:19,720
where I could read a book
or do homework
680
00:32:19,807 --> 00:32:23,550
while eating lunch.
681
00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:26,596
You--you found
just the right one.
682
00:32:26,683 --> 00:32:31,253
So the hot table is back here.
683
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:34,996
On the side,
these are all the cubbyholes
684
00:32:35,083 --> 00:32:37,477
with cakes and pastries.
685
00:32:37,564 --> 00:32:41,133
And these are the dispensers
686
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:45,485
of coffee, tea, hot chocolate.
687
00:32:45,572 --> 00:32:49,445
- When I ask people about
the Automat, they light up,
688
00:32:49,532 --> 00:32:52,144
and I'm just wondering,
why do you think people love
689
00:32:52,231 --> 00:32:55,538
the Automat so much
and remember it so fondly?
690
00:32:57,366 --> 00:32:58,628
- It was a good place to eat.
691
00:32:58,715 --> 00:33:01,370
The food was delicious,
692
00:33:01,457 --> 00:33:04,634
the prices were right,
693
00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:09,204
but more than that,
I think it was the fact
694
00:33:09,291 --> 00:33:12,991
that there were all kinds
of people,
695
00:33:13,078 --> 00:33:18,866
from poor people
to matrons in furs.
696
00:33:18,953 --> 00:33:22,565
- You're sitting at a table
with a bunch of people,
697
00:33:22,652 --> 00:33:24,437
one of whom
might be a businessman.
698
00:33:24,524 --> 00:33:26,134
Another person
might be a worker.
699
00:33:26,221 --> 00:33:28,658
Another person
might be an artist.
700
00:33:28,745 --> 00:33:32,706
- It was an unspoken rule that
if there was no empty table,
701
00:33:32,793 --> 00:33:36,536
you could sit next to anybody
who was already eating.
702
00:33:36,623 --> 00:33:38,146
- It was true.
703
00:33:38,233 --> 00:33:39,974
You'd see--at a table,
you'd see a bum
704
00:33:40,061 --> 00:33:41,845
with an empty cup of coffee,
705
00:33:41,932 --> 00:33:45,240
someone on your left,
he'd get some hot water,
706
00:33:45,327 --> 00:33:48,156
and he'd put some mustard
or ketchup in it,
707
00:33:48,243 --> 00:33:51,638
and he'd have, like,
a condiment soup.
708
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:54,423
- There was no question
that the company's policy
709
00:33:54,510 --> 00:33:57,557
was distinctly serve everybody
710
00:33:57,644 --> 00:33:59,689
and serve everybody
the same way.
711
00:33:59,776 --> 00:34:02,040
♪ ♪
712
00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:05,130
- It was revolutionary
in a way,
713
00:34:05,217 --> 00:34:08,002
very democratic.
714
00:34:08,089 --> 00:34:10,483
- This was a remarkable place.
715
00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:16,532
An amazingly optimistic view
of what the future could be.
716
00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:20,058
It said, "There's enough
for everybody."
717
00:34:20,145 --> 00:34:23,365
- And it had certain
cultural markers
718
00:34:23,452 --> 00:34:26,368
that made it
a truly American place,
719
00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:31,286
ironically,
for a non-American audience.
720
00:34:31,373 --> 00:34:35,551
- Yes, this is the great USA
with people
721
00:34:35,638 --> 00:34:38,598
of all different colors
and religions
722
00:34:38,685 --> 00:34:43,124
and manner of dress,
723
00:34:43,211 --> 00:34:46,997
and yet we are all together.
724
00:34:48,825 --> 00:34:49,957
[horn honking]
725
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:51,785
[indistinct chatter]
726
00:34:51,872 --> 00:34:53,308
- The one we would usually
go to is the Automat
727
00:34:53,395 --> 00:34:55,397
that was on 42nd Street.
728
00:34:55,484 --> 00:34:56,877
I never even thought
about the fact
729
00:34:56,964 --> 00:34:58,444
that, "I'm a Black kid.
730
00:34:58,531 --> 00:34:59,967
"Should I go
into Horn & Hardart?
731
00:35:00,054 --> 00:35:01,882
Is it okay
to go to the Automat?"
732
00:35:01,969 --> 00:35:03,884
All the Automats had
that beautiful diversity
733
00:35:03,971 --> 00:35:06,843
that didn't exist in most
of the rest of the country,
734
00:35:06,930 --> 00:35:09,411
of economic standing,
of color,
735
00:35:09,498 --> 00:35:11,979
of ethnicity, of language.
736
00:35:12,066 --> 00:35:14,373
You never knew what you'd
run into in an Automat.
737
00:35:16,418 --> 00:35:20,292
- Can I adjust your tie
a little to cover your button?
738
00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,771
May I?
- Sure.
739
00:35:21,858 --> 00:35:24,905
- Okay. You keep scaring me.
740
00:35:24,992 --> 00:35:26,211
- What--what's wrong
with a button?
741
00:35:26,298 --> 00:35:27,821
I mean, does it...
742
00:35:27,908 --> 00:35:29,388
- Oh, no, no, no,
there's nothing wrong with it.
743
00:35:29,475 --> 00:35:30,519
- Mel Brooks is there
looking like a bum,
744
00:35:30,606 --> 00:35:32,347
and--and--
[laughter]
745
00:35:32,434 --> 00:35:33,783
- What is that? C--
746
00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:35,133
- There was just a little--
- Cake?
747
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:36,569
- I just wasn't--
I don't know.
748
00:35:36,656 --> 00:35:38,092
- Could be.
- Were you eating cake?
749
00:35:38,179 --> 00:35:39,049
- Yeah, I just came
from Junior's and--okay.
750
00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:40,225
- It's good.
751
00:35:40,312 --> 00:35:41,878
- So should we--
752
00:35:41,965 --> 00:35:43,619
- Come on.
753
00:35:43,706 --> 00:35:45,534
I've got a Colombian ambassador
waiting for me.
754
00:35:47,754 --> 00:35:48,929
- Is there any way--
755
00:35:49,016 --> 00:35:50,670
- You gotta get
a still of this.
756
00:35:52,106 --> 00:35:54,761
This photo was taken when
I was about seven years old
757
00:35:54,848 --> 00:35:56,676
living in the South Bronx,
758
00:35:56,763 --> 00:35:59,200
immigrant family, not making
a great deal of money.
759
00:35:59,287 --> 00:36:01,420
So you have to understand,
760
00:36:01,507 --> 00:36:03,291
we almost never went
to a restaurant.
761
00:36:03,378 --> 00:36:04,858
I don't ever remember
going to a restaurant
762
00:36:04,945 --> 00:36:06,599
anywhere in the South Bronx.
763
00:36:06,686 --> 00:36:08,166
We always ate at home
or with a relative.
764
00:36:10,516 --> 00:36:14,084
So going to an Automat
was not just the experience
765
00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,826
of seeing this mechanized
food delivery system.
766
00:36:16,913 --> 00:36:20,221
It was going to a restaurant,
and as a kid,
767
00:36:20,308 --> 00:36:23,529
it was such a thrill
to walk into this place.
768
00:36:23,616 --> 00:36:26,096
Sparkling. It shone.
769
00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:29,361
I mean, it literally
blasted you with the marble
770
00:36:29,448 --> 00:36:32,799
and the tables
that were marble.
771
00:36:32,886 --> 00:36:36,846
And there is this wall
where little compartments
772
00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:41,199
had the beautiful
chrome-rimmed knobs.
773
00:36:41,286 --> 00:36:42,809
And you knew
there was somebody
774
00:36:42,896 --> 00:36:44,419
behind those little
compartments.
775
00:36:44,506 --> 00:36:46,247
You never saw them,
776
00:36:46,334 --> 00:36:49,511
but you knew
they had to be there.
777
00:36:49,598 --> 00:36:52,993
And better than that,
the food was good.
778
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,516
The Automat
was where I learned
779
00:36:54,603 --> 00:36:57,171
to like creamed spinach.
780
00:36:57,258 --> 00:36:59,652
Macaroni and cheese.
781
00:36:59,739 --> 00:37:02,394
- Automat food
became so recognizable,
782
00:37:02,481 --> 00:37:05,048
particularly
the signature dishes.
783
00:37:05,135 --> 00:37:06,572
- There's baked beans
and baked beans,
784
00:37:06,659 --> 00:37:10,619
and then there's
Horn & Hardart's baked beans.
785
00:37:10,706 --> 00:37:13,622
- I really got excited
about a Salisbury steak.
786
00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:15,320
- Oh, don't tell
my mother this.
787
00:37:15,407 --> 00:37:19,019
I liked the ham and cheese
sandwich with mustard.
788
00:37:19,106 --> 00:37:20,325
I think there
was an olive stuck in it.
789
00:37:20,412 --> 00:37:22,022
It was great.
790
00:37:22,109 --> 00:37:23,328
I don't know what Carl ate
at the Automat.
791
00:37:23,415 --> 00:37:25,243
Did you ask him what he had?
792
00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:27,027
- It always consisted
of the same thing.
793
00:37:27,114 --> 00:37:31,640
A ham and cheese sandwich,
a cup of very good coffee.
794
00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:36,210
- Carl was much more frugal--
cheap.
795
00:37:36,297 --> 00:37:37,472
Cheaper than I am.
796
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,822
- It was cheap. Very cheap.
797
00:37:39,909 --> 00:37:42,738
- Eggs, bacon.
798
00:37:42,825 --> 00:37:44,653
- Chicken salad.
799
00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:49,658
- I loved the creamed spinach
and succotash
800
00:37:49,745 --> 00:37:51,791
and the sweet things.
801
00:37:51,878 --> 00:37:55,098
- One part mashed potatoes,
one part baked beans,
802
00:37:55,185 --> 00:37:57,013
and one part Salisbury steak,
803
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,015
and you've gone to heaven
without dying.
804
00:38:02,062 --> 00:38:04,151
- For my family,
it wasn't just the Automat.
805
00:38:04,238 --> 00:38:06,240
It was Horn & Hardart,
because there was also
806
00:38:06,327 --> 00:38:08,416
a retail store
in my neighborhood,
807
00:38:08,503 --> 00:38:10,853
and on the weekends,
on Saturday,
808
00:38:10,940 --> 00:38:13,247
I would usually get a couple
of dollars, and I was told,
809
00:38:13,334 --> 00:38:16,381
"Go get a Horn & Hardart
apple pie."
810
00:38:16,468 --> 00:38:19,253
And that was the height
of the week's experience.
811
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:20,907
[light music]
812
00:38:20,994 --> 00:38:22,343
- Can you describe
the presence
813
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:24,127
of the retail stores here?
814
00:38:24,214 --> 00:38:25,912
- The concept of the retail
stores is very simple.
815
00:38:25,999 --> 00:38:28,480
The idea was we would
sell our food
816
00:38:28,567 --> 00:38:32,092
so that it could
be taken home,
817
00:38:32,179 --> 00:38:35,617
and it was
a very successful move.
818
00:38:35,704 --> 00:38:39,273
The slogan was
"Less Work for Mother."
819
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,059
- Less Work for Mother
retail shops.
820
00:38:43,146 --> 00:38:45,018
Everything was fresh.
821
00:38:45,105 --> 00:38:49,152
Everything was made to order.
It was breathtaking.
822
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,678
But they also sponsored
a television show
823
00:38:52,765 --> 00:38:56,943
that was on Sundays
called "The Children's Hour."
824
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:59,075
- Good morning,
and welcome to the famous
825
00:38:59,162 --> 00:39:00,816
Sunday morning
"Children's Hour."
826
00:39:00,903 --> 00:39:02,992
- Ed Herlihy,
he was the announcer.
827
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,168
- Presented by Horn & Hardart
Automat cafeterias
828
00:39:05,255 --> 00:39:07,432
and Less Work for Mother
Retail Shops.
829
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:09,129
Today, as every Sunday morning
830
00:39:09,216 --> 00:39:11,523
for over 26 years,
"The Children's Hour"
831
00:39:11,610 --> 00:39:13,960
brings you New York's
most talented children.
832
00:39:14,047 --> 00:39:18,356
- I had been a child performer
and I knew some of the kids,
833
00:39:18,443 --> 00:39:21,881
and they could do things I
couldn't even dream of doing.
834
00:39:21,968 --> 00:39:25,319
- ♪ You belong to my heart ♪
835
00:39:25,406 --> 00:39:28,583
- They auditioned hundreds
of children every month.
836
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:31,717
- ♪ Now and forever ♪
837
00:39:31,804 --> 00:39:34,372
- You'd be surprised how many
people got their start
838
00:39:34,459 --> 00:39:36,243
on "The Children's Hour."
839
00:39:36,330 --> 00:39:40,334
Rosemary Clooney,
Eddie Fisher, Leslie Uggams,
840
00:39:40,421 --> 00:39:43,772
Arnold Stang,
Frankie Avalon,
841
00:39:43,859 --> 00:39:49,212
Bernadette Peters,
Gregory Hines, Madeline Kahn.
842
00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:51,867
- No kidding.
She never mentioned that.
843
00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:54,783
You know,
she was in a lot of my movies
844
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:58,178
like "Blazing Saddles,"
"Young Frankenstein,"
845
00:39:58,265 --> 00:40:01,355
and many others.
846
00:40:01,442 --> 00:40:04,358
And, of course,
she would come to the Automat.
847
00:40:04,445 --> 00:40:06,142
- This portion
of "The Children's Hour"
848
00:40:06,229 --> 00:40:07,840
has been brought to you
by Horn & Hardart Automat
849
00:40:07,927 --> 00:40:10,016
cafeterias and Less Work
for Mother retail shops.
850
00:40:10,103 --> 00:40:13,541
Complete meals
with less work for mother.
851
00:40:19,765 --> 00:40:21,810
- Carl,
even though he was, like,
852
00:40:21,897 --> 00:40:25,727
costarring with Sid Caesar
on the " Show of Shows,"
853
00:40:25,814 --> 00:40:28,556
when he came in
for rehearsals,
854
00:40:28,643 --> 00:40:32,125
he'd been at the Automat
having his breakfast.
855
00:40:32,212 --> 00:40:34,693
- Every morning at 9:30,
I had my breakfast.
856
00:40:34,780 --> 00:40:36,912
I was there for a half hour
because I had to get to work
857
00:40:36,999 --> 00:40:39,219
at 10:00.
858
00:40:39,306 --> 00:40:42,483
Mel was one of these guys who
couldn't get to work on time.
859
00:40:42,570 --> 00:40:45,094
So he never had breakfast
at Automats.
860
00:40:45,181 --> 00:40:47,575
- I don't remember there ever
being breakfast at the Automat.
861
00:40:47,662 --> 00:40:51,361
I don't remember there ever
being things like waffles.
862
00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:53,059
There may have been
scrambled eggs.
863
00:40:55,714 --> 00:41:01,023
There were a lot
of Broadway types.
864
00:41:01,110 --> 00:41:02,416
Not stars, mind you.
865
00:41:02,503 --> 00:41:05,463
Secondary players, bit players.
866
00:41:05,550 --> 00:41:08,857
- We were--
I guess we were actors.
867
00:41:08,944 --> 00:41:11,120
- I'm an actor, not a clown.
868
00:41:11,207 --> 00:41:15,168
- Hide the silverware.
Here come the actors.
869
00:41:15,255 --> 00:41:19,433
- To eat or not to eat.
That is the question.
870
00:41:20,826 --> 00:41:26,353
- My actor friends and I would
go to at least three locations
871
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,748
right near the theaters
that I would work at.
872
00:41:29,835 --> 00:41:34,448
We would sometimes go
and get napkins
873
00:41:34,535 --> 00:41:39,671
and put ketchup on the napkins
874
00:41:39,758 --> 00:41:43,588
and pretend that we were
eating the napkins.
875
00:41:43,675 --> 00:41:45,981
You know, the point being
in Horn & Hardart's,
876
00:41:46,068 --> 00:41:50,159
everything tasted delicious,
even the napkins.
877
00:41:50,246 --> 00:41:52,074
- Ms. Duncan and I
will be lunching here.
878
00:41:52,161 --> 00:41:53,815
Will you pick us up
in half an hour--
879
00:41:53,902 --> 00:41:56,339
- Once in a while, there'd
be a lighthearted movie,
880
00:41:56,426 --> 00:41:57,819
a love story.
881
00:41:57,906 --> 00:41:59,995
They'd use the Automat.
882
00:42:00,082 --> 00:42:01,910
They had lunch there
or something.
883
00:42:01,997 --> 00:42:05,174
- You like chicken pot pie?
- 25¢?
884
00:42:05,261 --> 00:42:08,351
- Doris Day, James Garner,
that kind of movie.
885
00:42:08,438 --> 00:42:12,225
- Where?
- She just went to the Automat.
886
00:42:12,312 --> 00:42:14,923
- See, I thought
this was my table.
887
00:42:15,010 --> 00:42:16,359
Mind if I sit down?
888
00:42:18,753 --> 00:42:22,104
- Remarkable.
She never makes a mistake.
889
00:42:22,191 --> 00:42:23,453
Fast as lightning too.
890
00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:24,759
- In an average eight-hour day
891
00:42:24,846 --> 00:42:29,198
that girl handles
18,240 nickels.
892
00:42:29,285 --> 00:42:30,983
- Ladies and gentlemen,
one of the many pleasures
893
00:42:31,070 --> 00:42:32,462
when a visitor
comes to New York
894
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:34,856
is going to the many fine
eating places.
895
00:42:34,943 --> 00:42:37,816
[upbeat music]
896
00:42:37,903 --> 00:42:40,296
♪ ♪
897
00:42:40,383 --> 00:42:43,082
- Hey, you're Bob Hope,
ain't ya?
898
00:42:44,823 --> 00:42:51,351
♪ ♪
899
00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:54,528
- In an Automat,
900
00:42:54,615 --> 00:42:56,095
by the early '60s,
901
00:42:56,182 --> 00:43:00,012
the Automat had become
incredibly popular.
902
00:43:00,099 --> 00:43:02,928
- Jack Benny
liked the Automat.
903
00:43:03,015 --> 00:43:06,540
He decided to launch
a TV series there.
904
00:43:06,627 --> 00:43:09,456
He had a reputation
for being cheap,
905
00:43:09,543 --> 00:43:12,372
and he invited all
the celebrities--Helen Hayes
906
00:43:12,459 --> 00:43:16,376
and people like that in their
long gowns in their tuxedos.
907
00:43:16,463 --> 00:43:18,204
And when they got
to the Automat,
908
00:43:18,291 --> 00:43:22,643
Jack Benny gave them
a roll of nickels.
909
00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:25,603
[indistinct chatter]
910
00:43:29,345 --> 00:43:31,696
[horn honking]
911
00:43:31,783 --> 00:43:33,436
- So you said you even
went to Horn & Hardart
912
00:43:33,523 --> 00:43:35,177
in Philadelphia?
- I did.
913
00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:37,397
When I was in Philadelphia,
I went to the Automat.
914
00:43:37,484 --> 00:43:41,140
Philadelphia had
the same thing, the Automat.
915
00:43:41,227 --> 00:43:43,229
- And people who came to it
in New York City,
916
00:43:43,316 --> 00:43:47,450
a lot of them don't even know
anything about Philadelphia.
917
00:43:47,537 --> 00:43:50,889
In Philadelphia, they were
more known as Horn & Hardart.
918
00:43:50,976 --> 00:43:53,413
You're going
to Horn & Hardart.
919
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,198
- Over the years, even though
to the country, as a whole,
920
00:43:56,285 --> 00:43:57,460
when they thought
of the Automat,
921
00:43:57,547 --> 00:43:58,418
they thought of New York.
922
00:43:58,505 --> 00:44:00,115
In Philadelphia,
923
00:44:00,202 --> 00:44:02,770
Horn & Hardart
couldn't be more popular.
924
00:44:02,857 --> 00:44:05,164
In 1941,
between its restaurants
925
00:44:05,251 --> 00:44:06,861
and its retail stores,
926
00:44:06,948 --> 00:44:08,820
Horn & Hardart was feeding
10% of the population
927
00:44:08,907 --> 00:44:10,996
of the entire city
of Philadelphia.
928
00:44:11,083 --> 00:44:13,912
One of the largest cities
in America at that time.
929
00:44:13,999 --> 00:44:17,089
♪ ♪
930
00:44:17,176 --> 00:44:21,615
- I moved to Philadelphia
in 1954
931
00:44:21,702 --> 00:44:24,966
as a young 16-year-old.
932
00:44:26,054 --> 00:44:28,274
And because there was not
a lot of money
933
00:44:28,361 --> 00:44:30,232
in the household,
934
00:44:30,319 --> 00:44:33,888
we used to go
to Horn & Hardart's.
935
00:44:33,975 --> 00:44:35,629
For years, I thought
936
00:44:35,716 --> 00:44:40,329
Horn & Hardart's
was only in Philadelphia.
937
00:44:40,416 --> 00:44:43,202
Yes, they had good food,
938
00:44:43,289 --> 00:44:47,685
but it was an important place
for me and other people.
939
00:44:47,772 --> 00:44:51,514
I can say there were parts
of Philadelphia that were
940
00:44:51,601 --> 00:44:56,694
segregated like skating rinks
and bowling alleys.
941
00:44:56,781 --> 00:45:00,132
But Horn & Hardart's
was a nice place
942
00:45:00,219 --> 00:45:04,136
where African Americans
could go and feel dignified.
943
00:45:08,183 --> 00:45:09,881
- Even though Horn and Hardart
in the '50s
944
00:45:09,968 --> 00:45:13,058
and early '60s was as big
as it had ever been,
945
00:45:13,145 --> 00:45:15,060
they were no longer making
money the way they used to.
946
00:45:15,147 --> 00:45:16,583
- In the late '50s,
947
00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:18,716
we were beginning
to see competition
948
00:45:18,803 --> 00:45:21,980
from a company called
Chock Full o'Nuts.
949
00:45:22,067 --> 00:45:24,286
People could come
into Chock Full o'Nuts,
950
00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:26,506
get some coffee, which is what
they were chiefly named for.
951
00:45:26,593 --> 00:45:29,335
Get out,
spend very little money.
952
00:45:29,422 --> 00:45:33,034
It represented the first
serious competition
953
00:45:33,121 --> 00:45:34,949
we'd had in a long while.
954
00:45:35,036 --> 00:45:37,169
I'd call that
the first cloud in the sky.
955
00:45:37,256 --> 00:45:40,085
[men grumbling]
956
00:45:43,828 --> 00:45:46,569
- Every time someone buys
Horn & Hardart coffee,
957
00:45:46,656 --> 00:45:48,397
it hurts us a little.
958
00:45:48,484 --> 00:45:50,182
Horn & Hardart uses
959
00:45:50,269 --> 00:45:51,879
such ridiculously expensive
coffee beans.
960
00:45:51,966 --> 00:45:53,968
We lose money on it.
961
00:45:54,055 --> 00:45:57,406
We could make money by buying
less expensive coffee beans,
962
00:45:57,493 --> 00:46:00,758
but then our coffee
would be less good.
963
00:46:00,845 --> 00:46:03,282
Horn & Hardart coffee:
964
00:46:03,369 --> 00:46:06,241
it's so good,
we lose money on it.
965
00:46:08,374 --> 00:46:10,071
- Horn & Hardart
was losing money
966
00:46:10,158 --> 00:46:12,465
on every cup of coffee
that they sold.
967
00:46:12,552 --> 00:46:15,947
Post-war inflation made
everything more expensive,
968
00:46:16,034 --> 00:46:19,733
and the nickel was no longer
worth what it once was.
969
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:22,823
They waited as long as they
could afford to until finally,
970
00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:26,479
Horn & Hardart raised
the price of coffee,
971
00:46:26,566 --> 00:46:29,177
but the vending machine
couldn't take pennies.
972
00:46:29,264 --> 00:46:32,964
So Horn & Hardart
had to go to 10¢.
973
00:46:33,051 --> 00:46:35,618
They doubled the price.
974
00:46:35,705 --> 00:46:39,057
The results were disastrous.
975
00:46:39,144 --> 00:46:40,972
Number of cups of coffee
sold immediately
976
00:46:41,059 --> 00:46:44,453
dropped from 70 million a year
to 45 million.
977
00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:47,761
[solemn music]
978
00:46:47,848 --> 00:46:51,330
- For some reason, there was
this emotional attachment.
979
00:46:51,417 --> 00:46:56,117
- Yeah, they were known
for that 5¢ cup of coffee.
980
00:46:56,204 --> 00:46:58,990
- The nickel subway ride
was gone.
981
00:46:59,077 --> 00:47:01,688
The nickel phone call
was gone,
982
00:47:01,775 --> 00:47:04,256
but when the nickel
cup of coffee changed,
983
00:47:04,343 --> 00:47:08,477
it created a very emotional
divide between the Automat
984
00:47:08,564 --> 00:47:09,870
that they knew
what was coming to them.
985
00:47:09,957 --> 00:47:11,698
- The beginning of the end.
986
00:47:11,785 --> 00:47:13,961
- I mean, it was called
the house that nickels built.
987
00:47:14,048 --> 00:47:20,315
♪ ♪
988
00:47:21,534 --> 00:47:25,059
- My father fought that battle
to keep it at 5¢,
989
00:47:25,146 --> 00:47:27,714
and when the decision
was finally made,
990
00:47:27,801 --> 00:47:29,498
he physically collapsed
991
00:47:29,585 --> 00:47:31,283
and required
medical assistance
992
00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:34,155
for several days
while he was flat on his back.
993
00:47:34,242 --> 00:47:37,158
The decision drained him
so much,
994
00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:39,813
but it had to be faced.
995
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:42,772
[sweeping music]
996
00:47:42,860 --> 00:47:45,819
♪ ♪
997
00:47:45,906 --> 00:47:48,169
- A quiet revolution
has been taking place
998
00:47:48,256 --> 00:47:49,867
for nearly a decade.
999
00:47:49,954 --> 00:47:51,912
More than a million persons
each year
1000
00:47:51,999 --> 00:47:54,132
have pulled up stakes
in the cities...
1001
00:47:54,219 --> 00:47:56,743
- In 1957,
President Eisenhower
1002
00:47:56,830 --> 00:47:59,659
put the interstate
highway system in.
1003
00:47:59,746 --> 00:48:02,792
The result was
to encourage businesses
1004
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,666
to locate outside
of the center cities.
1005
00:48:06,753 --> 00:48:10,713
The center city was no longer
going to be what it had been.
1006
00:48:11,801 --> 00:48:13,586
That was a major cloud
in the sky, and of course,
1007
00:48:13,673 --> 00:48:17,416
it became a torrent in the sky.
1008
00:48:17,503 --> 00:48:20,506
- We shall build hundreds
of thousands of homes
1009
00:48:20,593 --> 00:48:23,117
during the post-war return
to peacetime activities.
1010
00:48:23,204 --> 00:48:26,512
- Everyone was racing
toward the suburbs.
1011
00:48:26,599 --> 00:48:29,384
Women, for the most part,
were raising families now,
1012
00:48:29,471 --> 00:48:31,996
so they weren't
working in the city.
1013
00:48:32,083 --> 00:48:34,389
And men who were working
in the city
1014
00:48:34,476 --> 00:48:36,478
were not hanging around
for dinner here.
1015
00:48:36,565 --> 00:48:39,829
They were going home
to their home-cooked meals.
1016
00:48:39,917 --> 00:48:44,312
- The romance, the adventure
of choosing from foods
1017
00:48:44,399 --> 00:48:47,141
gathered from the four corners
of America.
1018
00:48:47,228 --> 00:48:49,448
- Also, tastes in food
were changing.
1019
00:48:49,535 --> 00:48:51,580
- Frozen foods
are the nearest thing
1020
00:48:51,667 --> 00:48:53,495
to fresh foods available.
1021
00:48:53,582 --> 00:48:56,368
They're convenient, easily
prepared, and palatable.
1022
00:48:56,455 --> 00:48:58,500
♪ ♪
1023
00:48:58,587 --> 00:49:00,154
- The people eating out
were younger.
1024
00:49:00,241 --> 00:49:02,026
They didn't care
about saving money.
1025
00:49:02,113 --> 00:49:05,812
They were willing to spend more
for a service experience.
1026
00:49:05,899 --> 00:49:07,640
Thrift started
to become something
1027
00:49:07,727 --> 00:49:09,903
that the consumers
were actually turned away by.
1028
00:49:12,123 --> 00:49:15,648
- We knew that the demographic
patterns were changing.
1029
00:49:15,735 --> 00:49:17,345
These were worries.
1030
00:49:17,432 --> 00:49:20,261
[indistinct chatter]
1031
00:49:28,269 --> 00:49:30,880
- March 28th, 1960,
1032
00:49:30,968 --> 00:49:35,581
my father unexpectedly died.
1033
00:49:37,452 --> 00:49:40,760
My father was a man
who cared about people
1034
00:49:40,847 --> 00:49:42,762
very, very strongly.
1035
00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:44,851
[soft music]
1036
00:49:44,938 --> 00:49:48,159
From the time of Mr. Horn
and Mr. Hardart and my father,
1037
00:49:48,246 --> 00:49:50,900
that's what Horn & Hardart
was about.
1038
00:49:50,988 --> 00:49:53,555
♪ ♪
1039
00:49:53,642 --> 00:49:56,863
Employees and customers cared
immensely about the company
1040
00:49:56,950 --> 00:50:01,737
because they knew the company
cared immensely about them.
1041
00:50:01,824 --> 00:50:04,740
I think you've sensed that
in the interviews you've had.
1042
00:50:06,568 --> 00:50:08,005
Be clear that wasn't
just a question
1043
00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:10,050
of sitting down
at a business school
1044
00:50:10,137 --> 00:50:12,705
and saying, "Well, this
is a good business practice."
1045
00:50:12,792 --> 00:50:15,186
It was done
because it was right.
1046
00:50:15,273 --> 00:50:21,844
♪ ♪
1047
00:50:21,931 --> 00:50:25,413
- Edwin Daly took the company
from 1941, when Horn died,
1048
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:29,504
into 1960,
when he himself died.
1049
00:50:29,591 --> 00:50:32,942
But Daly made a mistake
that Horn had not made.
1050
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:35,336
He didn't prepare the company
for a successor at all.
1051
00:50:35,423 --> 00:50:37,382
In the breaking
of the chain of people
1052
00:50:37,469 --> 00:50:38,905
with a real commitment
1053
00:50:38,992 --> 00:50:41,516
to the Horn & Hardart's
original vision
1054
00:50:41,603 --> 00:50:44,476
was a big part of what caused
the problems that followed.
1055
00:50:44,563 --> 00:50:51,135
♪ ♪
1056
00:50:53,224 --> 00:50:55,530
- I grew up in Brooklyn,
New York,
1057
00:50:55,617 --> 00:50:57,402
and as a young boy,
1058
00:50:57,489 --> 00:51:01,058
I had always heard about
New York City and Manhattan.
1059
00:51:01,145 --> 00:51:03,277
I must've been about
10 years old
1060
00:51:03,364 --> 00:51:05,627
when my Aunt Shirley
took me into Manhattan
1061
00:51:05,714 --> 00:51:07,325
for the first time in my life.
1062
00:51:09,501 --> 00:51:12,678
She took me
to Radio City Music Hall.
1063
00:51:12,765 --> 00:51:15,028
It was amazing.
1064
00:51:15,115 --> 00:51:16,595
We got out of Radio City,
and she said,
1065
00:51:16,682 --> 00:51:18,336
"I'm gonna take you
to a very special place."
1066
00:51:21,426 --> 00:51:24,385
Walked in.
1067
00:51:24,472 --> 00:51:28,215
I remember
putting money in the window,
1068
00:51:28,302 --> 00:51:31,044
and the next thing I knew,
the window opened,
1069
00:51:31,131 --> 00:51:35,440
and I received an apple pie.
1070
00:51:35,527 --> 00:51:41,141
And at that age of ten or so,
I was mystified.
1071
00:51:41,228 --> 00:51:43,056
How did this happen?
1072
00:51:43,143 --> 00:51:46,799
And I remember asking my aunt,
and she said,
1073
00:51:46,886 --> 00:51:51,238
"There's a magician
on the other side,"
1074
00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:56,069
and I believed that,
and I have never stopped
1075
00:51:56,156 --> 00:51:59,464
threading everything
we've done at Starbucks
1076
00:51:59,551 --> 00:52:02,336
with that initial experience.
1077
00:52:02,423 --> 00:52:05,774
When we had 11 stores
and a hundred people in 1987
1078
00:52:05,861 --> 00:52:08,560
and dreaming
about what we would do,
1079
00:52:08,647 --> 00:52:12,564
I always had the Automat
in my mind's eye.
1080
00:52:12,651 --> 00:52:16,481
How do you create that level
of theater, excitement,
1081
00:52:16,568 --> 00:52:19,527
surprise, and delight?
1082
00:52:19,614 --> 00:52:23,618
The Automat was something
unique and special.
1083
00:52:23,705 --> 00:52:26,621
And really, when I think
about my own career,
1084
00:52:26,708 --> 00:52:29,015
despite what we've been
able to dream about
1085
00:52:29,102 --> 00:52:33,106
and accomplish at Starbucks,
at the heart of it,
1086
00:52:33,193 --> 00:52:35,587
I'm a storyteller
trying to create
1087
00:52:35,674 --> 00:52:39,373
a sense of discovery
and romance.
1088
00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:42,637
The Automat for me
was a seminal moment
1089
00:52:42,724 --> 00:52:44,509
in my childhood,
1090
00:52:44,596 --> 00:52:46,554
and I became a merchant
1091
00:52:46,641 --> 00:52:49,253
the day that I
was in that Automat.
1092
00:52:49,340 --> 00:52:53,692
♪ ♪
1093
00:52:55,041 --> 00:52:56,825
[quirky music]
1094
00:52:56,912 --> 00:52:59,393
- ♪ When you least expect it,
you're elected ♪
1095
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,004
- These are people
who are gonna buy a roll.
1096
00:53:02,091 --> 00:53:06,008
[laughter]
1097
00:53:08,750 --> 00:53:12,450
Now, you can imagine
it's pretty frustrating.
1098
00:53:12,537 --> 00:53:15,627
[laughter]
1099
00:53:18,151 --> 00:53:19,805
This fellow with a roll--
[inaudible]
1100
00:53:19,892 --> 00:53:22,808
[laughter]
1101
00:53:25,289 --> 00:53:27,029
He's gonna try again,
you know.
1102
00:53:27,116 --> 00:53:28,988
He's very, very patient.
1103
00:53:31,947 --> 00:53:34,428
Now he tries to return
the two plates.
1104
00:53:44,090 --> 00:53:49,138
- In the '60s, there was
a group that we organized.
1105
00:53:49,226 --> 00:53:51,880
We met on the second floor
of Horn & Hardart's
1106
00:53:51,967 --> 00:53:53,578
at 15th and Market,
1107
00:53:53,665 --> 00:53:56,972
where there were ideas
about what could happen
1108
00:53:57,059 --> 00:53:59,279
if we work hard enough.
1109
00:53:59,366 --> 00:54:01,890
And we strategized about
1110
00:54:01,977 --> 00:54:06,199
how we would be able
to get into politics.
1111
00:54:06,286 --> 00:54:07,983
It was the birth
1112
00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,160
of the Black political
movement in Philadelphia
1113
00:54:11,248 --> 00:54:16,253
which led to my being able to
run for mayor of Philadelphia.
1114
00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:19,125
In the 1950s and '60s,
1115
00:54:19,212 --> 00:54:22,476
I ate so much
Horn & Hardart's meatloaf.
1116
00:54:22,563 --> 00:54:26,567
By 1970,
I really went off meat.
1117
00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:27,742
[laughs]
1118
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:31,746
[solemn music]
1119
00:54:31,833 --> 00:54:33,922
- I was in Vietnam
in the '60s.
1120
00:54:34,009 --> 00:54:36,447
When I went in the army,
it was still in the process
1121
00:54:36,534 --> 00:54:38,187
of ending segregation.
1122
00:54:38,275 --> 00:54:40,364
But I came in from Kelly Street
1123
00:54:40,451 --> 00:54:41,930
and Horn & Hardart
and the Automat.
1124
00:54:42,017 --> 00:54:43,845
So I knew what diversity
was all about.
1125
00:54:43,932 --> 00:54:45,586
So integration
wasn't anything new to me.
1126
00:54:45,673 --> 00:54:48,589
I lived in integration.
1127
00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:50,765
I was gonna help
transform the army
1128
00:54:50,852 --> 00:54:52,941
and make it
understand diversity.
1129
00:54:53,028 --> 00:54:59,905
♪ ♪
1130
00:54:59,992 --> 00:55:04,170
- In the '60s, my family
had moved out of the city
1131
00:55:04,257 --> 00:55:06,912
to the suburbs
to escape crime.
1132
00:55:06,999 --> 00:55:09,610
I had been the victim of crime.
1133
00:55:09,697 --> 00:55:14,398
Horn & Hardarts
were beginning to decline.
1134
00:55:14,485 --> 00:55:16,617
- As people kept
moving to the suburbs,
1135
00:55:16,704 --> 00:55:18,663
the breakfast and dinners
and the weekend business
1136
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:21,492
that Horn & Hardart had
always enjoyed disappeared.
1137
00:55:21,579 --> 00:55:23,320
They were no longer
serving meals
1138
00:55:23,407 --> 00:55:25,844
seven days a week;
they were serving them five,
1139
00:55:25,931 --> 00:55:28,368
having a huge impact
on the amount of sales
1140
00:55:28,455 --> 00:55:31,153
each restaurant
was able to do.
1141
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,027
- We needed to reduce
commitment in center cities.
1142
00:55:35,114 --> 00:55:38,596
I'm now addressing
Philadelphia.
1143
00:55:38,683 --> 00:55:40,598
Let's face facts.
1144
00:55:42,730 --> 00:55:46,255
- In 1966, Horn & Hardart
of Philadelphia
1145
00:55:46,343 --> 00:55:48,170
closed their central
city commissary
1146
00:55:48,257 --> 00:55:50,477
and opened a new one
in the suburbs
1147
00:55:50,564 --> 00:55:52,653
that had access
to superhighway routes
1148
00:55:52,740 --> 00:55:56,831
and would give them
a broader reach.
1149
00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:59,399
But for some reason,
instead of shrinking,
1150
00:55:59,486 --> 00:56:02,707
they built themselves
for enormous volumes of food,
1151
00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:04,491
and that cost sunk them
1152
00:56:04,578 --> 00:56:08,147
into debt from which
they never recovered.
1153
00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:10,410
- It was a blunder.
It was overbuilt.
1154
00:56:10,497 --> 00:56:12,369
It was badly located.
1155
00:56:13,718 --> 00:56:15,328
It was just wrong.
1156
00:56:16,982 --> 00:56:19,463
- Horn & Hardart system,
the commissary model,
1157
00:56:19,550 --> 00:56:21,421
had been a brilliant system.
1158
00:56:21,508 --> 00:56:23,162
It worked fantastically well,
1159
00:56:23,249 --> 00:56:26,774
as long as everybody went
and ate there,
1160
00:56:26,861 --> 00:56:30,952
but when they started
to suffer a drop in volume,
1161
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:32,301
things couldn't be scaled back.
1162
00:56:32,389 --> 00:56:37,655
♪ ♪
1163
00:56:37,742 --> 00:56:39,831
- My father became president
1164
00:56:39,918 --> 00:56:43,008
of Horn & Hardart
at a very difficult time.
1165
00:56:43,095 --> 00:56:45,053
I remember my mom saying
it was sort of like
1166
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:48,143
taking over
the helm of the Titanic.
1167
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:50,407
I don't think those
last several years
1168
00:56:50,494 --> 00:56:53,410
were pleasant
for him in any way.
1169
00:56:53,497 --> 00:56:55,847
There was a major recession
in the country,
1170
00:56:55,934 --> 00:56:57,892
but especially
in New York City,
1171
00:56:57,979 --> 00:57:00,982
and Horn & Hardart was a ship
that was taking on water.
1172
00:57:01,069 --> 00:57:06,248
♪ ♪
1173
00:57:06,335 --> 00:57:08,250
- The neighborhood declined
very badly
1174
00:57:08,337 --> 00:57:09,730
around Union Square.
1175
00:57:09,817 --> 00:57:12,211
It was full of homeless
and bums,
1176
00:57:12,298 --> 00:57:16,911
but we'd go down to meet
my grandfather at the Automat.
1177
00:57:16,998 --> 00:57:21,089
Grandpa liked the Automat.
He was a poor man.
1178
00:57:21,176 --> 00:57:23,091
He was a garment worker.
1179
00:57:23,178 --> 00:57:25,398
He would sit there
and talk about
1180
00:57:25,485 --> 00:57:28,009
how much he hated
the Vietnam War
1181
00:57:28,096 --> 00:57:30,838
in Yiddish to his friends
who would meet him there.
1182
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:35,626
[soft music]
1183
00:57:35,713 --> 00:57:38,585
♪ ♪
1184
00:57:38,672 --> 00:57:41,327
- One of their hallmarks
was that you could go
1185
00:57:41,414 --> 00:57:44,199
and spend a lot of time there,
have a cup of coffee,
1186
00:57:44,286 --> 00:57:47,681
meet interesting people,
1187
00:57:47,768 --> 00:57:50,467
but the problem was people
were coming and squatting.
1188
00:57:50,554 --> 00:57:53,165
So you started to get
homeless people and vagrants
1189
00:57:53,252 --> 00:57:55,080
in the Horn & Hardarts,
1190
00:57:55,167 --> 00:57:59,084
and so they went from being
these beautiful, clean,
1191
00:57:59,171 --> 00:58:03,610
art deco cathedrals
to dirty and smelly
1192
00:58:03,697 --> 00:58:06,483
and not a pleasant
place to be.
1193
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:13,490
♪ ♪
1194
00:58:15,796 --> 00:58:21,236
- I was the busboy
at Horn & Hardart 15 Park Row.
1195
00:58:21,323 --> 00:58:23,325
My first time really seeing
homeless people
1196
00:58:23,412 --> 00:58:27,199
was when I was working down
in that Wall Street area.
1197
00:58:27,286 --> 00:58:28,940
The Horn & Hardart was
the place where you could go
1198
00:58:29,027 --> 00:58:30,898
and nobody would bother you.
1199
00:58:30,985 --> 00:58:34,075
Where you could stay warm
and get out of the cold.
1200
00:58:34,162 --> 00:58:37,514
So they would just
sit there all day.
1201
00:58:37,601 --> 00:58:40,386
And I would at first
try to get 'em out,
1202
00:58:40,473 --> 00:58:43,824
but there was a policy
to just leave people alone.
1203
00:58:43,911 --> 00:58:46,392
In fact, sometimes I would
sneak some leftover food
1204
00:58:46,479 --> 00:58:48,655
over there--I would do that.
1205
00:58:48,742 --> 00:58:51,266
This is me.
I had the fro back then.
1206
00:58:51,353 --> 00:58:54,313
And this was my grandmother,
Sarah Perez.
1207
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,707
We worked at the same
Horn & Hardart.
1208
00:58:56,794 --> 00:58:58,926
She was a nickel thrower.
1209
00:58:59,013 --> 00:59:02,060
You know, Horn & Hardart
really cared for people,
1210
00:59:02,147 --> 00:59:04,758
and that was something
that just stuck with me.
1211
00:59:04,845 --> 00:59:07,935
In fact, I recently retired
after 26 years
1212
00:59:08,022 --> 00:59:09,763
of social services in New York,
1213
00:59:09,850 --> 00:59:12,505
besides all the other things
I've done in my life.
1214
00:59:12,592 --> 00:59:15,029
But that's what
I'm most proud of.
1215
00:59:15,116 --> 00:59:16,596
So I loved Horn & Hardart,
1216
00:59:16,683 --> 00:59:18,467
and I loved it
since I was a child
1217
00:59:18,555 --> 00:59:20,121
because they had
Christmas parties
1218
00:59:20,208 --> 00:59:22,080
for the employees' children.
1219
00:59:22,167 --> 00:59:23,995
♪ ♪
1220
00:59:24,082 --> 00:59:25,910
My grandmother took
my brother and me.
1221
00:59:25,997 --> 00:59:27,738
We couldn't wait to go
1222
00:59:27,825 --> 00:59:29,261
because they would have
all kinds of entertainment
1223
00:59:29,348 --> 00:59:31,524
and things for the kids.
1224
00:59:31,611 --> 00:59:33,134
Got to see Santa,
sit on his lap,
1225
00:59:33,221 --> 00:59:35,963
and get these great toys.
1226
00:59:36,050 --> 00:59:39,097
We loved Horn & Hardart,
1227
00:59:39,184 --> 00:59:42,143
even in the '60s
when it was kind of rough.
1228
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:44,711
In fact, my grandmother,
she got an award called
1229
00:59:44,798 --> 00:59:46,365
"I'm not fancy, but I'm good"
award,
1230
00:59:46,452 --> 00:59:50,021
which was an advertising
slogan back then.
1231
00:59:50,108 --> 00:59:52,980
- How did the campaign
get its name?
1232
00:59:53,067 --> 00:59:56,375
- It was the age
of the fancy coffee shop.
1233
00:59:56,462 --> 00:59:59,987
And so they were fancy
and not very good,
1234
01:00:00,074 --> 01:00:03,295
and Horn & Hardart,
the food was wonderful,
1235
01:00:03,382 --> 01:00:05,210
but the experience
that people had in there
1236
01:00:05,297 --> 01:00:07,995
was not always the best.
1237
01:00:08,082 --> 01:00:09,910
There's a story
about a Southern girl
1238
01:00:09,997 --> 01:00:11,999
who came to New York.
1239
01:00:12,086 --> 01:00:13,827
She said,
"I went into a Horn & Hardart,
1240
01:00:13,914 --> 01:00:17,918
"and I tried the baked beans,
and mmm, they were fine,
1241
01:00:18,005 --> 01:00:20,442
"and the--the candied
sweet potatoes,
1242
01:00:20,529 --> 01:00:22,923
"they were just like down home.
1243
01:00:23,010 --> 01:00:26,448
"And then I had some of that
lemon meringue pie,
1244
01:00:26,535 --> 01:00:30,191
"and--and then the man sitting
across the way from me,
1245
01:00:30,278 --> 01:00:32,629
he--he flopped it out
right in my pie."
1246
01:00:32,716 --> 01:00:34,456
- [snorts]
1247
01:00:34,543 --> 01:00:38,156
- Hey, Barn, disturbance in
the Automat over on Tenth.
1248
01:00:38,243 --> 01:00:40,375
- What kind of disturbance?
- Some guy's raising hell.
1249
01:00:40,462 --> 01:00:41,855
- The Automat on Tenth?
1250
01:00:41,942 --> 01:00:43,465
- Yeah,
he took his clothes off.
1251
01:00:43,552 --> 01:00:44,597
He's running around naked.
1252
01:00:44,684 --> 01:00:46,207
- Charming.
1253
01:00:46,294 --> 01:00:47,992
- Well, that was the story
of Horn & Hardart.
1254
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:50,255
You know, you'd go in there,
the food would be great,
1255
01:00:50,342 --> 01:00:55,521
and then you'd have someone
do something like that.
1256
01:00:56,478 --> 01:00:58,393
So I came up
with this campaign
1257
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,266
for a product
that had its flaws.
1258
01:01:01,353 --> 01:01:02,876
- These days, it's not enough
to have a restaurant
1259
01:01:02,963 --> 01:01:04,878
with good food and low prices.
1260
01:01:04,965 --> 01:01:07,228
You have to have
atmosphere too.
1261
01:01:07,315 --> 01:01:08,969
Trouble is,
this junk costs money,
1262
01:01:09,056 --> 01:01:10,797
and to pay for it,
you have to raise the prices
1263
01:01:10,884 --> 01:01:12,451
or cut the quality of the food.
1264
01:01:12,538 --> 01:01:16,107
But if you don't have
quality chandeliers
1265
01:01:16,194 --> 01:01:18,457
or canned music,
1266
01:01:18,544 --> 01:01:23,288
wallpaper,
1267
01:01:23,375 --> 01:01:25,986
you can put the money you save
into better quality food.
1268
01:01:26,073 --> 01:01:29,250
We think that's more important.
1269
01:01:29,337 --> 01:01:30,904
You can't eat atmosphere.
1270
01:01:33,298 --> 01:01:34,647
- I was born in the Bronx.
1271
01:01:34,734 --> 01:01:36,649
I grew up in Horn & Hardart's,
1272
01:01:36,736 --> 01:01:38,433
and it was always
a great treat for me
1273
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,263
to go into those places.
1274
01:01:42,350 --> 01:01:44,091
So this campaign,
1275
01:01:44,178 --> 01:01:47,442
it had an extra level
of meaning for me.
1276
01:01:47,529 --> 01:01:52,447
You know,
we tried to resurrect it.
1277
01:01:52,534 --> 01:01:54,362
We did what we could.
1278
01:01:54,449 --> 01:01:56,974
[solemn music]
1279
01:01:57,061 --> 01:02:01,152
This campaign was the closest
thing to self-expression
1280
01:02:01,239 --> 01:02:03,328
that I could ever have
in advertising,
1281
01:02:03,415 --> 01:02:05,983
I think, because it meant
so much to me.
1282
01:02:06,070 --> 01:02:08,159
♪ ♪
1283
01:02:08,246 --> 01:02:11,640
It was absolutely the closest
to my heart because...
1284
01:02:11,728 --> 01:02:18,647
♪ ♪
1285
01:02:18,735 --> 01:02:21,694
'Cause it's New York.
1286
01:02:21,781 --> 01:02:28,701
♪ ♪
1287
01:02:37,492 --> 01:02:40,539
- It was a sad day
when I would go
1288
01:02:40,626 --> 01:02:42,541
and look for Horn & Hardart's
1289
01:02:42,628 --> 01:02:46,240
and saw a sign--
"We're closing."
1290
01:02:46,327 --> 01:02:49,809
- The closing of the Automat
located at 818 Chestnut Street
1291
01:02:49,896 --> 01:02:52,899
marks the passing of the old
and the advent of the new.
1292
01:02:57,991 --> 01:03:01,734
- $271,000. Hold on!
1293
01:03:01,821 --> 01:03:03,954
- America's first Automat
1294
01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:06,130
today was put on
the auctioneer's block.
1295
01:03:06,217 --> 01:03:09,916
The building and most of
the equipment, that is.
1296
01:03:10,003 --> 01:03:12,701
- $271,000. Hold on!
1297
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:17,663
Once, twice,
third and last time.
1298
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:19,534
Hold on!
1299
01:03:19,621 --> 01:03:21,710
Right there.
- There it goes!
1300
01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:23,756
[soft music]
1301
01:03:23,843 --> 01:03:26,977
- For my father,
it was the family company,
1302
01:03:27,064 --> 01:03:29,022
and it had his family
name on it,
1303
01:03:29,109 --> 01:03:31,633
and it had been around
for a very long time.
1304
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,026
So to be in a position
to do that
1305
01:03:33,113 --> 01:03:35,072
must've been
really difficult for him.
1306
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:37,335
♪ ♪
1307
01:03:37,422 --> 01:03:39,685
- Horn and I used to have
lunch once in a while,
1308
01:03:39,772 --> 01:03:42,775
and I can still remember him
calling me and saying,
1309
01:03:42,862 --> 01:03:46,561
"John I'm gonna be packing up."
1310
01:03:49,303 --> 01:03:50,696
- The real estate
became the most valuable thing
1311
01:03:50,783 --> 01:03:52,480
that Horn & Hardart had.
1312
01:03:52,567 --> 01:03:54,352
Great real estate
throughout New York City,
1313
01:03:54,439 --> 01:03:56,615
and they leveraged that
real estate by franchising.
1314
01:03:58,312 --> 01:04:01,881
I think he felt like
the company and its core
1315
01:04:01,968 --> 01:04:04,623
and its soul was being gutted,
and its spirit.
1316
01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:08,583
♪ ♪
1317
01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:10,629
- It had been
not just a business,
1318
01:04:10,716 --> 01:04:12,326
it was a point of view.
1319
01:04:12,413 --> 01:04:14,502
It was almost a philosophy,
1320
01:04:14,589 --> 01:04:17,375
which these gentlemen,
Mr. Horn and Mr. Hardart,
1321
01:04:17,462 --> 01:04:21,335
had embraced and projected
through these places.
1322
01:04:21,422 --> 01:04:23,294
Not just making money
for themselves,
1323
01:04:23,381 --> 01:04:24,991
but really providing
the public
1324
01:04:25,078 --> 01:04:27,124
with what they needed
at the same time.
1325
01:04:27,211 --> 01:04:30,040
And I think the Automat proved
that there doesn't have to be
1326
01:04:30,127 --> 01:04:34,261
a contradiction
between those two notions,
1327
01:04:34,348 --> 01:04:38,178
and these people expected this
to last forever.
1328
01:04:38,265 --> 01:04:42,269
♪ ♪
1329
01:04:42,356 --> 01:04:45,403
- I came in at the tail end
of the Automat.
1330
01:04:45,490 --> 01:04:50,277
I had gone to the Automats
many times during my lifetime,
1331
01:04:50,364 --> 01:04:56,283
and here I was in the position
of being the undertaker
1332
01:04:56,370 --> 01:05:00,070
converting the Automat
into Burger Kings
1333
01:05:00,157 --> 01:05:02,637
and other restaurants.
1334
01:05:02,724 --> 01:05:05,249
- Horn & Hardart,
Burger King, Arby's.
1335
01:05:05,336 --> 01:05:06,728
- Yup.
- Bojangles.
1336
01:05:06,815 --> 01:05:08,165
- Bojangles, I remember.
1337
01:05:08,252 --> 01:05:12,647
- Mark Twain and Goodbody's.
- Hmm.
1338
01:05:12,734 --> 01:05:17,435
- There I am, and this
is my little crew, right here.
1339
01:05:20,177 --> 01:05:22,179
- John was in charge
of maintenance.
1340
01:05:22,266 --> 01:05:23,571
He was in charge
of construction.
1341
01:05:23,658 --> 01:05:25,834
He was in charge
of everything.
1342
01:05:27,227 --> 01:05:29,926
And John was sort of reluctant
about moving forward
1343
01:05:30,013 --> 01:05:32,406
because he had
a sentimental attachment.
1344
01:05:33,712 --> 01:05:35,757
What he had before was beauty.
1345
01:05:35,844 --> 01:05:38,630
What he had before
was elegance,
1346
01:05:38,717 --> 01:05:41,502
versus what I was creating.
1347
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:47,421
I was creating nuts and bolts,
and he was wine and flowers.
1348
01:05:49,336 --> 01:05:52,296
But the people that were now
sitting around the table
1349
01:05:52,383 --> 01:05:56,909
making decisions
were not Automat people.
1350
01:05:56,996 --> 01:05:59,651
They were fast food people.
1351
01:05:59,738 --> 01:06:03,655
I was moving ahead,
and I was part of progress.
1352
01:06:03,742 --> 01:06:07,789
I appreciate the old,
but you have to move forward.
1353
01:06:11,445 --> 01:06:16,624
- The Automat was archaic
at this point.
1354
01:06:16,711 --> 01:06:19,627
[somber music]
1355
01:06:19,714 --> 01:06:26,634
♪ ♪
1356
01:06:39,647 --> 01:06:42,868
- They date way back to 1912.
1357
01:06:42,955 --> 01:06:45,784
They were the place
where nickels went for lunch.
1358
01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:49,744
They were the Automats,
and now there's only one,
1359
01:06:49,831 --> 01:06:51,442
the last Automat.
1360
01:06:51,529 --> 01:06:53,531
Horn & Hardart's
on 42nd street
1361
01:06:53,618 --> 01:06:56,534
where the Third Avenue El
used to cast a shadow.
1362
01:06:56,621 --> 01:06:58,579
- My mother brought me here
when I was a little girl.
1363
01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:00,625
I brought my children here.
1364
01:07:00,712 --> 01:07:04,324
- I had one friend who--who
loved the macaroni and cheese.
1365
01:07:04,411 --> 01:07:06,370
She was a little bit hefty.
1366
01:07:06,457 --> 01:07:08,850
- I used to sit there,
and at nighttime, all night,
1367
01:07:08,937 --> 01:07:10,461
because I had no place to go.
1368
01:07:10,548 --> 01:07:12,158
You know,
I was one of the homeless,
1369
01:07:12,245 --> 01:07:14,465
and I used to sit in there,
1370
01:07:14,552 --> 01:07:16,815
but they never threw us out
or anything.
1371
01:07:16,902 --> 01:07:18,991
- Oh, forget about it,
are you kiddin' me?
1372
01:07:19,078 --> 01:07:21,515
Baked beans were the best.
A nickel, no?
1373
01:07:21,602 --> 01:07:23,039
You don't get nothing
for a nickel today.
1374
01:07:23,126 --> 01:07:25,215
- These days,
the Horn & Hardart Company
1375
01:07:25,302 --> 01:07:28,087
is mainly concerned with its
much faster food franchises,
1376
01:07:28,174 --> 01:07:31,395
operating more than
250 Arby's, Burger Kings,
1377
01:07:31,482 --> 01:07:34,528
and Bojangles.
1378
01:07:34,615 --> 01:07:39,272
- People think the Automat
was a precursor to fast food.
1379
01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:41,883
I wouldn't have
called it fast food.
1380
01:07:41,970 --> 01:07:47,280
Fast food is more simplified,
and that has to do with speed.
1381
01:07:47,367 --> 01:07:49,935
The Automat
was about many things,
1382
01:07:50,022 --> 01:07:51,763
but it was not about speed.
1383
01:07:51,850 --> 01:07:55,332
- Horn & Hardart, you knew
what you were going to get.
1384
01:07:55,419 --> 01:07:57,464
Fast service? Yes.
1385
01:07:57,551 --> 01:08:00,511
But Horn & Hardart
was not fast food.
1386
01:08:00,598 --> 01:08:04,167
We were above all
about good quality.
1387
01:08:04,254 --> 01:08:08,780
You don't go to McDonald's
for top-quality food.
1388
01:08:09,911 --> 01:08:14,568
And Horn & Hardart also had
a much wider range of foods.
1389
01:08:14,655 --> 01:08:16,962
I'm sure you've heard
in your interviews,
1390
01:08:17,049 --> 01:08:20,400
people thinking about
Horn & Hardart beef pies
1391
01:08:20,487 --> 01:08:22,010
or Horn & Hardart
creamed spinach
1392
01:08:22,098 --> 01:08:24,012
or Horn & Hardart
chocolate pudding,
1393
01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:27,233
to Horn & Hardart this,
that, or the other thing.
1394
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:29,496
A vast variety of...
1395
01:08:29,583 --> 01:08:32,978
- Carl liked baked beans.
We both loved baked beans.
1396
01:08:33,065 --> 01:08:36,808
He loved cream spinach,
I liked cream spinach,
1397
01:08:36,895 --> 01:08:42,292
but mostly,
we really loved the pies.
1398
01:08:42,379 --> 01:08:44,250
♪ ♪
1399
01:08:44,337 --> 01:08:46,992
The strawberry rhubarb--
great crust.
1400
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:49,081
Great tartness in the rhubarb.
1401
01:08:49,168 --> 01:08:51,997
The strawberries
were sweetened with sugar.
1402
01:08:52,084 --> 01:08:54,826
- If we didn't have that,
we settled for an apple pie,
1403
01:08:54,913 --> 01:08:56,393
which was also very good.
1404
01:08:56,480 --> 01:08:59,744
- Lemon meringue
not only looked big,
1405
01:08:59,831 --> 01:09:02,486
but you could smash
your face into it.
1406
01:09:02,573 --> 01:09:05,228
- Chocolate pudding pie,
which only came in the winter.
1407
01:09:05,315 --> 01:09:08,100
- Carl mentioned, probably,
the chocolate pudding pie
1408
01:09:08,187 --> 01:09:09,667
with the--with the cream.
1409
01:09:09,754 --> 01:09:10,711
He liked that.
1410
01:09:10,798 --> 01:09:12,757
- We waited patiently
1411
01:09:12,844 --> 01:09:14,672
all year for it.
1412
01:09:14,759 --> 01:09:17,805
That was the best pie.
1413
01:09:17,892 --> 01:09:22,636
- Really, it was nothing like
their coconut custard pie.
1414
01:09:22,723 --> 01:09:24,116
It was truly heaven.
1415
01:09:24,203 --> 01:09:26,162
I mean, how could anybody
even think
1416
01:09:26,249 --> 01:09:29,991
of putting together
the coconut and the custard
1417
01:09:30,078 --> 01:09:33,256
and the cream and--
coconut custard pie.
1418
01:09:33,343 --> 01:09:34,692
God made that.
1419
01:09:34,779 --> 01:09:37,695
[swanky music]
1420
01:09:37,782 --> 01:09:43,831
♪ ♪
1421
01:09:43,918 --> 01:09:47,487
- I think this
was the very last Automat.
1422
01:09:47,574 --> 01:09:50,534
- That's the one on
42nd Street and Third Avenue.
1423
01:09:50,621 --> 01:09:52,405
The last place I closed out.
1424
01:09:52,492 --> 01:09:56,496
They said close that one down
yourself personally.
1425
01:09:56,583 --> 01:09:59,238
And that completed my cycle.
1426
01:10:03,851 --> 01:10:05,723
- The door's slammed shut
on a piece
1427
01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:07,812
of New York restaurant history
as Horn & Hardart
1428
01:10:07,899 --> 01:10:12,251
closed the last of its famous
Automats in Midtown Manhattan.
1429
01:10:12,338 --> 01:10:14,949
In years past, there were
more than 40 Automats
1430
01:10:15,036 --> 01:10:16,821
scattered all around town,
1431
01:10:16,908 --> 01:10:19,389
but as fast food restaurants
proliferated in Midtown,
1432
01:10:19,476 --> 01:10:22,609
the popularity of the chain
lost favor with the public,
1433
01:10:22,696 --> 01:10:24,045
and now it's gone forever.
1434
01:10:24,132 --> 01:10:27,048
[solemn music]
1435
01:10:27,135 --> 01:10:34,055
♪ ♪
1436
01:10:49,810 --> 01:10:53,553
- That was the end,
and it was too bad,
1437
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:57,688
because it was such
a great experiment.
1438
01:10:57,775 --> 01:11:01,605
♪ ♪
1439
01:11:01,692 --> 01:11:05,609
It had some style,
and it was different.
1440
01:11:05,696 --> 01:11:09,917
The marble, the brass,
the floors, the pillars,
1441
01:11:10,004 --> 01:11:15,401
the chatter, the coffee.
1442
01:11:15,488 --> 01:11:18,186
It was the Automat.
1443
01:11:18,274 --> 01:11:20,754
And even though
it was beautiful,
1444
01:11:20,841 --> 01:11:22,713
it--it can't work again
1445
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:27,065
because of the logistics
and the economics of today.
1446
01:11:27,152 --> 01:11:31,765
Won't allow anything that
simple, naive, and eloquent
1447
01:11:31,852 --> 01:11:34,594
and beautiful
to flourish again.
1448
01:11:34,681 --> 01:11:36,640
♪ ♪
1449
01:11:36,727 --> 01:11:40,513
It was part of my youth
that I really loved.
1450
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,776
I loved the Automat.
1451
01:11:42,863 --> 01:11:44,648
I wish somebody
could bring it back,
1452
01:11:44,735 --> 01:11:47,041
but I don't know--
1453
01:11:47,128 --> 01:11:48,652
that lady isn't there anymore
1454
01:11:48,739 --> 01:11:50,567
who can give you
20 nickels, so...
1455
01:11:50,654 --> 01:11:55,485
♪ ♪
1456
01:11:55,572 --> 01:11:57,313
- They should have
never closed.
1457
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:02,579
I had a warehouse
loaded with the equipment
1458
01:12:02,666 --> 01:12:03,754
with the key.
1459
01:12:03,841 --> 01:12:05,712
I think I have a key.
1460
01:12:05,799 --> 01:12:08,411
I wonder if the stuff
is still there yet.
1461
01:12:08,498 --> 01:12:10,674
I'm talking about a load.
1462
01:12:10,761 --> 01:12:13,677
[wondrous music]
1463
01:12:13,764 --> 01:12:20,640
♪ ♪
1464
01:12:42,270 --> 01:12:43,924
- Life changes.
Things change.
1465
01:12:44,011 --> 01:12:45,012
We all get a little older,
1466
01:12:45,099 --> 01:12:46,187
but the older you get,
1467
01:12:46,274 --> 01:12:48,538
the more you reflect back on,
1468
01:12:48,625 --> 01:12:50,540
you know,
what came in the beginning,
1469
01:12:50,627 --> 01:12:54,587
and the Horn & Hardarts
and the Automats of the world.
1470
01:12:54,674 --> 01:12:56,154
It was
a remarkable institution
1471
01:12:56,241 --> 01:12:57,851
that meant a lot
to those of us
1472
01:12:57,938 --> 01:12:59,723
who are New Yorkers
or those in Philadelphia
1473
01:12:59,810 --> 01:13:02,552
that had the same experience.
1474
01:13:02,639 --> 01:13:07,078
- It took a while for society
to get it right.
1475
01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:11,387
Even when I moved
to Washington, D.C. in 1980,
1476
01:13:11,474 --> 01:13:15,216
many of the clubs
were closed to women.
1477
01:13:15,303 --> 01:13:21,614
So my practice was,
I wouldn't speak at any venue
1478
01:13:21,701 --> 01:13:23,703
that didn't admit people
1479
01:13:23,790 --> 01:13:26,097
without regard
to race, gender.
1480
01:13:26,184 --> 01:13:29,883
People from all walks of life.
1481
01:13:29,970 --> 01:13:31,537
- One of the great things
about being
1482
01:13:31,624 --> 01:13:33,496
a historian of the Automat
1483
01:13:33,583 --> 01:13:36,455
is the reaction that people
have when I mention it.
1484
01:13:36,542 --> 01:13:38,762
Big smile blossoms
across their face
1485
01:13:38,849 --> 01:13:41,068
as, suddenly, they're
cast back to the days
1486
01:13:41,155 --> 01:13:42,896
when they were getting
their pie
1487
01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:46,465
or a cup of coffee
out of that dolphin head.
1488
01:13:46,552 --> 01:13:49,729
- Those little knobs and doors
were a gimmick,
1489
01:13:49,816 --> 01:13:52,689
but the place
became something different.
1490
01:13:52,776 --> 01:13:56,606
From Edward Hopper's painting
of the isolated woman
1491
01:13:56,693 --> 01:14:00,740
to my grandfather sitting
in the Horn & Hardart,
1492
01:14:00,827 --> 01:14:04,048
it became a place
that everybody could go to.
1493
01:14:04,135 --> 01:14:06,877
- The generosity of spirit
was sublime,
1494
01:14:06,964 --> 01:14:08,444
and people got that.
1495
01:14:08,531 --> 01:14:11,577
And as a result,
they owned the Automat.
1496
01:14:11,664 --> 01:14:14,580
They felt a very strong
affection for it.
1497
01:14:14,667 --> 01:14:16,277
- Horn & Hardart
was about the people,
1498
01:14:16,364 --> 01:14:17,714
and I'm glad
to have been part of it
1499
01:14:17,801 --> 01:14:19,019
and part of this documentary.
1500
01:14:19,106 --> 01:14:20,717
High five.
1501
01:14:20,804 --> 01:14:23,807
Horn & Hardart rocks. [laughs]
1502
01:14:23,894 --> 01:14:25,678
- It seems very much like
1503
01:14:25,765 --> 01:14:27,680
the--the Automat
was a melting pot
1504
01:14:27,767 --> 01:14:29,769
and kind of an equalizer
of its time,
1505
01:14:29,856 --> 01:14:31,858
and I--I thank you so much
1506
01:14:31,945 --> 01:14:34,426
for taking the time
to--to meet with me.
1507
01:14:34,513 --> 01:14:36,297
- You're more than welcome.
1508
01:14:36,384 --> 01:14:39,910
I think this
is a wonderful project.
1509
01:14:39,997 --> 01:14:43,043
- So I wonder if you think it--
if it still lives on,
1510
01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:44,828
and I wonder
of what you think--
1511
01:14:44,915 --> 01:14:47,700
what the message or the lesson
can be learned from this.
1512
01:14:49,528 --> 01:14:51,269
- You know my feelings.
1513
01:14:51,356 --> 01:14:52,966
I remain very loyal
1514
01:14:53,053 --> 01:14:55,882
to the concept
of what Horn & Hardart was.
1515
01:14:55,969 --> 01:14:59,930
- Could you maybe think
of some modern reincarnations?
1516
01:15:00,017 --> 01:15:04,500
Where--where do you see
that kind of idealism today?
1517
01:15:04,587 --> 01:15:06,763
- Well, I think the idealism
was infused
1518
01:15:06,850 --> 01:15:09,461
into the lives of the people
who experienced the Automat.
1519
01:15:09,548 --> 01:15:14,335
In terms of institutions today,
I wonder.
1520
01:15:14,422 --> 01:15:16,381
Starbucks?
1521
01:15:16,468 --> 01:15:18,383
- This is a picture
of the Automat
1522
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:21,865
that I keep on a wall
in my office
1523
01:15:21,952 --> 01:15:26,739
as a constant reminder
of the theater, the romance,
1524
01:15:26,826 --> 01:15:29,786
and the sense of discovery
that existed in the Automat.
1525
01:15:29,873 --> 01:15:32,310
♪ ♪
1526
01:15:32,397 --> 01:15:34,704
- I think the principles
that they pioneered
1527
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:39,012
and the ideals that they had
are still alive today.
1528
01:15:39,099 --> 01:15:41,711
Anybody can do anything
1529
01:15:41,798 --> 01:15:44,452
and embrace the notion
that you can be successful
1530
01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:46,498
by being as inclusive
as possible,
1531
01:15:46,585 --> 01:15:51,285
as democratic as possible,
as generous as possible,
1532
01:15:51,372 --> 01:15:53,026
and still make it.
1533
01:15:53,113 --> 01:15:55,986
[sweeping music]
1534
01:15:56,073 --> 01:16:00,730
♪ ♪
1535
01:16:00,817 --> 01:16:04,342
- Well, I wish you
great good luck
1536
01:16:04,429 --> 01:16:06,126
with this adventure.
1537
01:16:06,213 --> 01:16:08,172
Use everything I've said.
1538
01:16:08,259 --> 01:16:11,610
I'm popular, I'm famous,
1539
01:16:11,697 --> 01:16:14,874
and make me the spearhead
1540
01:16:14,961 --> 01:16:18,574
of selling
this meshugganah documentary.
1541
01:16:18,661 --> 01:16:20,097
- Thank you so much.
1542
01:16:20,184 --> 01:16:21,185
- All right,
I'm leaving you now.
1543
01:16:21,272 --> 01:16:22,273
- Thank you.
1544
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:23,840
- And I'll be in touch.
1545
01:16:23,927 --> 01:16:25,711
I'll be calling
every once in a while.
1546
01:16:25,798 --> 01:16:27,234
"Anything happen?"
1547
01:16:27,321 --> 01:16:31,674
♪ Some people
just adore martinis ♪
1548
01:16:31,761 --> 01:16:36,548
♪ Others love iced tea ♪
1549
01:16:36,635 --> 01:16:41,553
♪ In Venice,
they all go for Bellinis ♪
1550
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:42,641
♪ But coffee ♪
1551
01:16:42,728 --> 01:16:46,427
♪ Ah, that's for me ♪
1552
01:16:46,514 --> 01:16:51,955
♪ I've tasted
every kind of brew ♪
1553
01:16:52,042 --> 01:16:57,264
♪ At every coffee shop ♪
1554
01:16:57,351 --> 01:17:02,226
♪ Some were good,
and some were great ♪
1555
01:17:02,313 --> 01:17:05,925
♪ But this one was the top ♪
1556
01:17:06,012 --> 01:17:10,060
♪ ♪
1557
01:17:10,147 --> 01:17:15,369
♪ There was nothing like
the coffee at the Automat ♪
1558
01:17:15,456 --> 01:17:20,940
♪ Its aroma
and its flavor was supreme ♪
1559
01:17:21,027 --> 01:17:26,380
♪ From a silver dolphin spout,
the coffee poured right out ♪
1560
01:17:26,467 --> 01:17:31,429
♪ Not to mention, at the end,
a little spurt of cream ♪
1561
01:17:31,516 --> 01:17:36,652
♪ There was nothing like
the coffee at the Automat ♪
1562
01:17:36,739 --> 01:17:42,396
♪ Nothing fancy
or pretentious like today ♪
1563
01:17:42,483 --> 01:17:44,268
♪ You have to understand ♪
1564
01:17:44,355 --> 01:17:47,663
♪ They had no latte grande ♪
1565
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:52,711
♪ No quizzical baristas
in your way ♪
1566
01:17:52,798 --> 01:17:58,064
♪ There was nothing like
the coffee at the Automat ♪
1567
01:17:58,151 --> 01:18:03,113
♪ You would find a seat,
hang up your coat and hat ♪
1568
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,290
♪ And for just a shiny nickel ♪
1569
01:18:06,377 --> 01:18:09,206
♪ Your taste buds
you could tickle ♪
1570
01:18:09,293 --> 01:18:13,689
♪ With that wonderful,
magnificent, unbelievable ♪
1571
01:18:13,776 --> 01:18:15,821
♪ Awesome coffee ♪
1572
01:18:15,908 --> 01:18:22,785
♪ At the Automat ♪
1573
01:18:22,872 --> 01:18:40,800
♪ ♪
112938
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