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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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[Music]
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this is Cambodia in 1990 one year ago in
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a film broadcast around the world we
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showed that this uniquely tragic country
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was once more in danger of falling to
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the greatest mass murderers since Hitler
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the Khmer Rouge of Pol Pot and that
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Western governments and the United
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Nations were allowing this to happen for
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reasons of Cold War politics the
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response from the public was
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unprecedented tens of thousands of
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people wrote to their governments
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seeking for Cambodia not charity but
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action unfortunately this film is not a
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celebration of a Cambodia now freed from
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the threat of another Holocaust
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it's about betrayal a betrayal of those
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who ask for help for Cambodia regardless
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of whether that help meant offending the
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United States and China which give
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direct and indirect support to the Khmer
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Rouge above all it's a betrayal of a
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people who have struggled virtually
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alone to rebuild their stricken country
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for tonight's film will show that
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Western governments are among those
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secretly providing the means for Pol
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Pot's return to power
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see
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lately Cambodia has become a newspaper
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headline about peace talks that never
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bring peace for those of you who have
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shown your concern about Cambodia
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beware recent reports of peace
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agreements deceive and manipulate public
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opinion there have been no agreements
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only the imposition of the strategic
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aims of great powers upon a suffering
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nation this has been done by coercion
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and bribery what it souls is diplomatic
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embarrassment what it threatens is a
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fragile normality that is the remarkable
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achievement of the Cambodian people
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[Music]
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this is Phnom Penh for more than a
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decade the United Nations led by the
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Western China has isolated these
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resourceful and resilient people barring
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them from all international agreements
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on trade and communications even from
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the World Health Organization instead
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Pol Pot and his gang have been allowed
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to occupy Cambodia seat at the United
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Nations behind the facade of a coalition
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invented by America and China and all
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because the liberators of Cambodia the
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Vietnamese had the temerity not only to
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get rid of Pol Pot but to turn back
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invasions by both America and China this
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is the logic and spite of Cambodia's
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punishment
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they have started from scratch I would
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say worse than scratch without means
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isolated without anybody to to come and
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see what was going on in this country
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without strength without human resources
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that have been decimated is incredible
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the resilience of these people and I
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really feel bad that when I I read the
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press outside and the media and they
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speak like these people do not exist
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since the first American bomb fell on
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neutral Cambodia 21 years ago the people
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here have been prey to those who call
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themselves peacemakers the latest peace
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plan has been put forward by the United
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Nations the permanent five members of
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the Security Council which is dominated
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by the United States and its allies
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demand the resignation of the Hun Sen
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government in Phnom Penh even though
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this is Cambodia's only effective
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government providing the only opposition
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to the return of Pol Pot under this UN
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plan the Khmer Rouge will be given a
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share of power it's really the West or
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the free world or whoever want to help
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this people if they are really sincere
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then they should come here and seek what
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these people see and then try to
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strengthen their their their sense of
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first of all they are dignity because
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they don't lose dignity de cámara they
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die but they don't lose their dignity
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and then strengthen their sense of
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Independence they are grouping in all
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the ways to do that
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fear is like a presence here the other
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day 56 people were taken off two trains
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and shot dead by the Khmer Rouge simply
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because they work for the government
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Pol Pot's Defense Minister has boasted
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an enemies list of two million people
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when the curfew comes the night belongs
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to the prospect of a second Holocaust at
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the end of World War two
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The Times correspondent on arrival as
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the Nazi death camp at Belsen wrote it's
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my duty to describe something beyond the
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imagination of mankind that was how I
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felt in 1979 when I reached Cambodia in
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the aftermath of Pol Pot's
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terror once again it's necessary to come
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here and say that once again it's
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necessary to guide the camera to these
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mass graves which are everywhere in this
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country here murdered people were dumped
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many of them children headless and naked
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horrors that were photographed and
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documented by Pol Pot's Gestapo known as
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s21 in three and a half years a fifth of
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the population were put to death
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not a single Western leader has come to
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the killing fields of Cambodia just to
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pay their respects as almost all of
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D'Arnot Belson and the shrines in Israel
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in the past year there have even been
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attempts to rewrite the evidence
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provided by those of us who saw and
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smelt and cannot forget these graves
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when they were discovered the United
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Nations Security Council dropped the
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word genocide from its reference to the
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Pol Pot years so as not to offend China
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Pol Pot's underwriter American and other
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Western documents no longer refer to
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genocide and mass murder preferring to
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describe the extermination of more than
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a million people as human rights abuses
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or merely the policies and practices of
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the recent past the universally
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condemned policies and practices of a
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recent path
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unquote referred to in an earlier report
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are in fact the policies and practices
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of the 1975 to 1978 period while the
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West publicly tries to distance itself
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from Pol Pot American officials in
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embassy background briefings described
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the Khmer Rouge as different and changed
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out of all recognition this insidious
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campaign has been echoed in the media
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Pol Pot may have been brutal but he was
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no mass murderer he may have been a bit
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paranoid but there was no genocide this
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article has been widely distributed by
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Pol Pot's man in New York and by the
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Foreign Office in London
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it says the West must stop moralizing
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about the Khmer Rouge and reach out to
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them it complains that the genocide
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issue has been exploited to the full and
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says that Pol Pot's followers are now
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regarded as honest and are admired for
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their discipline and self-respect
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qualities that most fears of Cambodian
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society lack this campaign of
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rehabilitation suppresses the fact that
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the Khmer Rouge are masters of coercion
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intimidation and propaganda we have
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evidence of Pol Pot's secret plans to
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fool Western governments and to take
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power as he did before these notes are
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of secret speeches made by Pol Pot and
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discussions with his leadership Pol Pot
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spokesman q san-pan who has smiled his
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way around the world at so-called peace
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conferences made the following
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declaration to Khmer Rouge commanders
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the outside world
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he said keeps demanding a political end
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to the war in Cambodia I could end the
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war if I wanted because the outside
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world is waiting for me but I am buying
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time to give you comrades the
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opportunity to carry out all the
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military tasks at this point
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Pol Pot added that to end the war
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politically would make his movement fade
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away and this must be prevented from
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happening we shall push a liberal
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capitalist line he said
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but we are not changing our true nature
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following the showing of our film a year
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ago Western governments appeared to
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listen to public opinion Sweden changed
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its vote at the United Nations public
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opinion in Sweden and in other
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democratic countries has strongly voiced
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its revulsion at the prospect of the
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possible return of the Khmer Rouge this
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is a healthy reaction which my
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government cannot and will not ignore
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Australia launched its own peace plan
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Britain sent diplomats to Cambodia for
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the first time in 15 years
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however at international conferences a
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different game was being played as one
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diplomat put it ministers from Britain
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and other Western governments actually
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reinforced Cambodia's isolation by
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treating the Khmer Rouge not as
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international criminals but to quote
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mrs. Thatcher in an unguarded moment as
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reasonable people will have to play some
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part in a future Cambodian government a
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term was invented to help cover Western
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deceit the term is comprehensive
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settlement it means that no settlement
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is acceptable to the West in China
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unless the Khmer Rouge are given a share
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of power in Cambodia before elections
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are held this is the equivalent of
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inviting the Nazis to take part in the
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reunification of Germany in other words
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by allowing him to manipulate
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international diplomacy the West has
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given Pol Pot a veto over peace in
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Cambodia and as a result he has come
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within an ace of achieving his aims
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this is kompong spur province one year
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ago when we were here the villages along
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this road were considered secure today
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the Khmer Rouge are all around and this
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is the front line less than 50 miles
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from the capital Phnom Penh
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the Khmer Rouge have captured several
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villages they've separated men and women
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held forced marriages and enslaved
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able-bodied people those trying to
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escape have been shot anyone seriously
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injured from stepping on Khmer Rouge
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mines has been shot or simply left to
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die as Western diplomacy has sought ways
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of accommodating the Khmer Rouge their
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shadow grows longer here where there is
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no diplomacy
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the situation is worse than it was a
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year ago the Khmer Rouge are putting
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mines in paddy fields and the number of
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casualties is increasing every day every
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organization working with people is
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worried stiff about the number of
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amputees this and serious injury Red
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Cross has estimated that there are at
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least a hundred thousand displaced
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people and the indications are that
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number will increase if the war goes on
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and the fear of Khmer Rouge remains so
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the situation is deteriorating and still
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no large-scale aid is going from the
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West to assist the people of that
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country
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in the last year Cambodians have gained
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a new distinction with the Lebanese they
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are now the most disabled people in the
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world from stepping on mines there are
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now 80 new amputees every day can you
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tell me about this man what happened to
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him this man go to the fields not rice
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field of the field for who they feel and
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00:14:20,279 --> 00:14:26,519
plant some some weed yes and in this
280
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:31,230
moment he cuts the mind the mind and the
281
00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:37,619
glow of his life what will happen to him
282
00:14:37,619 --> 00:14:41,059
when he goes back to his village he
283
00:14:41,059 --> 00:14:56,279
can't cannot feed his face why did his
284
00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:00,869
family survive the Pol Pot years yeah he
285
00:15:00,869 --> 00:15:02,329
lost a family member
286
00:15:02,329 --> 00:15:10,290
during Papaji the great political
287
00:15:10,290 --> 00:15:12,480
changes in Europe are bad news for
288
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,839
Cambodia until recently the Soviet Union
289
00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:17,759
and its former allies in Eastern Europe
290
00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:20,999
helped to keep this country going 10
291
00:15:20,999 --> 00:15:23,189
years ago it was the Soviet Union that
292
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:25,910
saved much of Cambodia from starvation
293
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:28,949
since then the Russians have supplied up
294
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:31,499
to 80 percent of vital materials such as
295
00:15:31,499 --> 00:15:34,889
medical equipment and drugs now this aid
296
00:15:34,889 --> 00:15:36,179
is being withdrawn
297
00:15:36,179 --> 00:15:39,449
in the new world order the Russians can
298
00:15:39,449 --> 00:15:41,790
no longer afford to help the enemies of
299
00:15:41,790 --> 00:15:44,869
their new friends
300
00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:49,440
this patient is bullied my explosion of
301
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:55,160
my in the mission in the battlefield yes
302
00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:01,610
and how has that affected him the brain
303
00:16:01,610 --> 00:16:06,360
for the Ice Age well will he survive do
304
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,800
you think you don't think and you know
305
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,890
yeah could we could you tell me about
306
00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:20,360
perhaps this this lady here this woman
307
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,920
is funded by your mind from when she go
308
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,910
to the the field this year rice field
309
00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:35,579
and left and this is her this is her
310
00:16:35,579 --> 00:16:39,860
infant here on the bed component son
311
00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:42,750
person how old is she
312
00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:44,990
well she's 23 years old
313
00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:50,969
[Music]
314
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,410
[Applause]
315
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:57,210
Minister the arms that you are facing on
316
00:16:57,210 --> 00:17:01,320
the battlefield from the Khmer Rouge and
317
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,319
their allies what countries are
318
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:09,660
supplying them but don't walk by now if
319
00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:14,069
you come from India the weapons used
320
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:17,040
against us by the Khmer Rouge have brand
321
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,160
names and trademarks which show that
322
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,609
they come from Western countries
323
00:17:22,609 --> 00:17:28,610
including France Sweden and West Germany
324
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,020
didn't come with you
325
00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:35,670
baloney we understood that most of the
326
00:17:35,670 --> 00:17:39,180
arms come from China but this is not the
327
00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:43,040
impression that we're getting here today
328
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,300
that's right the guerillas aren't only
329
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,120
using Chinese weapons they're also
330
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,690
getting weapons from Western countries
331
00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:57,450
don't they more time when half of the in
332
00:17:57,450 --> 00:17:59,850
a local lady are you certain then that
333
00:17:59,850 --> 00:18:03,060
weapons being supplied from Western
334
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:06,150
sources to the so called non communist
335
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:09,450
resistance either get to or directly
336
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:11,460
assist the Khmer Rouge on the
337
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:14,580
battlefield Nicholas on my hand but
338
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:18,120
pocket long-term or porn action why
339
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,430
perhaps it is very obvious in the
340
00:18:20,430 --> 00:18:22,560
battlefield that all three factions
341
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,500
including the Khmer Rouge are using the
342
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,280
same weapons
343
00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:38,390
I've gotten on who Jarno frothy and like
344
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:41,510
looking like all these weapons came from
345
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:45,380
Western countries who supply arms to the
346
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:50,090
KP NLF and the Khmer Rouge Hannibal papa
347
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:53,120
of course we captured many weapons like
348
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,330
these on the battlefield but we've only
349
00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:58,539
brought some of them here to Phnom Penh
350
00:18:58,539 --> 00:19:03,500
to show people the rest we use to defend
351
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:11,240
ourselves to is the German anti-tank
352
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,909
weapon Swedish anti-tank weapon and
353
00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:20,390
these are French the discovery of these
354
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:23,419
arms which include American weapons set
355
00:19:23,419 --> 00:19:25,090
us off on a journey around the world
356
00:19:25,090 --> 00:19:28,070
revealing direct American and British
357
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:32,409
involvement in the return of Pol Pot
358
00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:41,510
of all the mysteries surrounding support
359
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:43,610
for pol pot two questions are
360
00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:44,510
outstanding
361
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:47,330
how and why Western arms are getting to
362
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:49,940
the Khmer Rouge the evidence we have
363
00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:52,940
tells us to begin in Europe here in Bonn
364
00:19:52,940 --> 00:20:01,490
capital of Germany what is the German
365
00:20:01,490 --> 00:20:04,910
connection with Cambodia the West German
366
00:20:04,910 --> 00:20:06,890
government is still supporting the Khmer
367
00:20:06,890 --> 00:20:09,400
Rouge or the coalition government
368
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:15,110
it's totally immoral a position but the
369
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:17,420
government can afford it because people
370
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:19,010
don't know nothing about Cambodia and
371
00:20:19,010 --> 00:20:23,300
West Germany and that is the political
372
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,510
support and then the more vital and more
373
00:20:26,510 --> 00:20:28,310
effective German support for the
374
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:31,280
closures a weapon called Armbrust which
375
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,560
is an anti-tank missile it's very
376
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,120
effective weapon of the Khmer Rouge and
377
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,670
the canal which usually - the tanks of
378
00:20:40,670 --> 00:20:43,100
the government forces and I found a
379
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,500
Khmer Rouge who was really proud of this
380
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:48,670
weapon who was yeah giving me my
381
00:20:48,670 --> 00:20:51,200
congratulations as a West German for
382
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:58,280
this great weapon alone is that mr.
383
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,980
palinka I called the German arms
384
00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:03,920
manufacturer mbb to ask how their
385
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,310
weapons got to Cambodia to say that I'm
386
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:10,160
returned from Cambodia recently with new
387
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,650
information which I would like to pass
388
00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:14,510
along to you and also to say that I'm
389
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:17,000
recording this conversation for for
390
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,560
accuracy we came upon in Cambodia
391
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,860
Armbrust weapons and I have a serial
392
00:21:24,860 --> 00:21:27,350
number which I'd like to give to you and
393
00:21:27,350 --> 00:21:28,640
perhaps you could help us with the
394
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,850
origin of this particular weapon ok the
395
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:36,590
full inscription is lot on a 8 four oh
396
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:43,150
four oh six oh seven nine three
397
00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:50,500
well we can't comment on this had come
398
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:52,390
about the company spokesman revealed
399
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:55,510
because mbb had sold the license to make
400
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:57,789
the weapon to a Belgian company called
401
00:21:57,789 --> 00:22:02,549
PRB whose headquarters are in Brussels
402
00:22:04,169 --> 00:22:07,539
PR be like many in the arms business has
403
00:22:07,539 --> 00:22:10,419
a secret life it's owned by aspera the
404
00:22:10,419 --> 00:22:12,549
huge British arms and fireworks company
405
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:15,789
based in Ramsgate in Kent the company is
406
00:22:15,789 --> 00:22:17,380
currently under investigation for
407
00:22:17,380 --> 00:22:20,230
contractual irregularities fraud in
408
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:22,750
other words it also made part of the
409
00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:25,150
super gun that ended up in Iraq this
410
00:22:25,150 --> 00:22:26,409
much is public knowledge
411
00:22:26,409 --> 00:22:29,799
what is not known is PR B's links to pol
412
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:33,820
pot in 1981-82 the company arranged for
413
00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:36,100
chartered industries of Singapore to
414
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:39,840
produce the German armed breath weapon
415
00:22:41,159 --> 00:22:44,830
we asked PR b to comment not only did
416
00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:46,419
they deny all knowledge of this weapon
417
00:22:46,419 --> 00:22:48,730
they denied having anything to do with
418
00:22:48,730 --> 00:22:53,190
weapons at all Lenart wha-la feeling
419
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:56,340
fear be Houdini de belgique
420
00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:59,799
others activity rahi here they are
421
00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:02,350
preserved in the Mossad fear happy I'm
422
00:23:02,350 --> 00:23:04,630
not here to fabrication all down it is
423
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:06,909
fabrication munition control gas
424
00:23:06,909 --> 00:23:10,690
reporter Commission arcade the Las
425
00:23:10,690 --> 00:23:11,200
Ramblas
426
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,140
present our basic su relievers and a
427
00:23:14,140 --> 00:23:16,750
middle initial and provocative more to
428
00:23:16,750 --> 00:23:22,750
PayPal City payable we have a very
429
00:23:22,750 --> 00:23:26,830
manifesto masters City at their peak $1
430
00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:31,059
and City the kunta a port on the Elysee
431
00:23:31,059 --> 00:23:36,070
Vichy day this most important contract
432
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:37,260
led us to Singapore
433
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:39,220
[Applause]
434
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:41,660
once the last bastion of the British
435
00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:44,420
Empire Singapore is now a supermarket
436
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:46,700
with banks docks and a widely promoted
437
00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:49,910
image as a tourist centre run by the
438
00:23:49,910 --> 00:23:53,120
autocrat Lee Kuan Yew Singapore is both
439
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,700
America's and China's most active ally
440
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:58,970
in Southeast Asia for the past eleven
441
00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:01,670
years at the United Nations Singapore
442
00:24:01,670 --> 00:24:03,350
has been the stalking horse of the
443
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:06,430
Trinity of Pol Pot Washington and Peking
444
00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:09,320
here at last year's UN vote on Cambodia
445
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,630
the Singapore representative leads
446
00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:13,640
delegates who voted for the Khmer Rouge
447
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,340
dominated coalition to meet Pol Pot's
448
00:24:16,340 --> 00:24:18,770
man at the United Nations himself
449
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:21,860
complicit in mass murder Prime Minister
450
00:24:21,860 --> 00:24:23,780
Lee has said the Khmer Rouge must be
451
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:26,240
part of a settlement journalist he said
452
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,080
have made them into demons the image
453
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,090
that is certainly not promoted here is
454
00:24:32,090 --> 00:24:34,540
that of Singapore arms capital of Asia
455
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:37,790
occupying an entire city block all along
456
00:24:37,790 --> 00:24:40,280
here is the heavily guarded compound of
457
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,440
Chartered industries it's here that
458
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,450
Western arms are made under license and
459
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:46,040
shipped straight to the Cambodian
460
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,860
guerrillas
461
00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:50,240
we asked chartered industries for an
462
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,130
interview but like everyone in this
463
00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:54,460
business they suffer from acute shyness
464
00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:57,650
this is hardly surprising as Chartered
465
00:24:57,650 --> 00:24:59,330
Industries is owned by the Singapore
466
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:59,990
government
467
00:24:59,990 --> 00:25:02,510
this means that Singapore is a prime
468
00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:04,430
mover in the flow of arms that end up
469
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:07,130
with the Khmer Rouge and it means that
470
00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:09,590
the Bush administration can continue its
471
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:12,380
secret aid through Singapore aid that
472
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:14,630
breaks a law passed by Congress only
473
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:17,390
last year with Washington's backing
474
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:19,310
Singapore supplies the Cambodian
475
00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:21,530
gorillas not only with German weapons
476
00:25:21,530 --> 00:25:24,140
but also with this Swedish anti-tank
477
00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:27,890
weapon we filmed these weapons soon
478
00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:29,510
after they'd been captured from Pol
479
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:34,070
Pot's army from Singapore they are
480
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:36,380
shipped here to the port of Sattahip in
481
00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:38,860
Thailand
482
00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:44,460
Thailand is critical to peace in
483
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:45,270
Cambodia
484
00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:48,000
Prime Minister chatter chai has made
485
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,060
peace moves towards Phnom Penh and
486
00:25:50,060 --> 00:25:52,560
indicated he wants the Khmer Rouge out
487
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,860
of their bases in Thailand this is so
488
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:58,080
alarmed the bush administration that
489
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,520
Washington has threatened to cut off
490
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,640
trade privileges to Thailand
491
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,140
price action event is a senior
492
00:26:04,140 --> 00:26:06,600
government adviser I asked him why
493
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,850
Thailand still allowed arms to reach the
494
00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:11,880
Khmer Rouge to close the door completely
495
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,340
on shipment of arms or whatever that
496
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:16,380
that you you say is flowing through
497
00:26:16,380 --> 00:26:20,600
Thailand it's also a very difficult
498
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,420
situation without a settlement those
499
00:26:24,420 --> 00:26:26,220
arms are coming from a variety of
500
00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:28,560
sources something yes not only from
501
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,330
China they're coming through Singapore
502
00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:35,480
indirectly from Western Gulf yes yes
503
00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:38,670
would you like those Western governments
504
00:26:38,670 --> 00:26:41,730
that are indirectly helping this supply
505
00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:45,690
of arms to stop that yes yes I mean I
506
00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:48,410
could go on record of asking for all
507
00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:51,620
Western powers in China to stop you know
508
00:26:51,620 --> 00:26:58,380
arming the fighting forces and this is
509
00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:00,810
where the weapons arrived a Khmer Rouge
510
00:27:00,810 --> 00:27:04,050
munitions warehouse in Thailand filmed
511
00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:05,910
for the first time from inside the
512
00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:08,850
compound but who owns this place
513
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:11,220
we had Land Registry records searched
514
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:12,750
and found the identity of the owner
515
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:15,900
classified however our sources tell us
516
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:17,760
that the land is owned by the United
517
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,920
Nations border elite operation and
518
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,640
leased to the United States government
519
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,330
this is ironic
520
00:27:24,330 --> 00:27:26,700
a humanitarian agency renting its
521
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:28,320
property to a foreign government
522
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,840
which allows the Khmer Rouge to use it
523
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,220
as a military base near here is zone 87
524
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:37,680
where Pol Pot lives and plans his
525
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,490
reconquest of Cambodia this rare map was
526
00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:43,740
originally drawn by American researcher
527
00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:47,790
Roger Normand zone 87 is an enclave
528
00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:51,450
inside Thailand's trap province in which
529
00:27:51,450 --> 00:27:54,690
several times a year the leadership the
530
00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:55,149
highly
531
00:27:55,149 --> 00:27:57,309
the Khmer Rouge holds training sessions
532
00:27:57,309 --> 00:28:00,099
for high-level military cadre the Khmer
533
00:28:00,099 --> 00:28:03,029
Rouge plays a very high premium on
534
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:05,950
indoctrinating their troops there are 13
535
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:07,869
days sessions which are led by Pol Pot
536
00:28:07,869 --> 00:28:09,940
and some other top Khmer Rouge
537
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:11,830
leadership which includes some saying
538
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:13,839
who is currently the Minister of Defence
539
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:16,419
for the Khmer Rouge - some paan who is
540
00:28:16,419 --> 00:28:18,309
the vice president and also Tom milk and
541
00:28:18,309 --> 00:28:20,499
yang Suri it's the exact same leadership
542
00:28:20,499 --> 00:28:23,589
that controlled from 75 to 78 that is
543
00:28:23,589 --> 00:28:25,749
now controlling these training sessions
544
00:28:25,749 --> 00:28:29,469
and more than that from this space Pol
545
00:28:29,469 --> 00:28:31,960
Pot is really directing the political
546
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,919
and military strategy the kr Pol Pot and
547
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:38,499
his leadership are clearly important to
548
00:28:38,499 --> 00:28:41,320
the survival of the Khmer Rouge why
549
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,719
don't you boot them out of Thailand
550
00:28:42,719 --> 00:28:47,739
there's a few refugee camps that are in
551
00:28:47,739 --> 00:28:49,599
Thailand and are controlled by the Khmer
552
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:52,869
Rouge we are so afraid that if we do
553
00:28:52,869 --> 00:28:56,320
anything drastic to these civilians
554
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,070
under their control they will be pushed
555
00:28:59,070 --> 00:29:02,469
dragged inside Cambodia altogether and
556
00:29:02,469 --> 00:29:06,190
they will suffer a lot more there was
557
00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:09,399
one incident that the UN bro with the
558
00:29:09,399 --> 00:29:10,989
United Nations organizations who was
559
00:29:10,989 --> 00:29:13,239
running the camp there that they wanted
560
00:29:13,239 --> 00:29:16,479
to move some of the to another camp but
561
00:29:16,479 --> 00:29:17,859
the Khmer Rouge didn't allowed and they
562
00:29:17,859 --> 00:29:19,539
they're preventable with their weapons
563
00:29:19,539 --> 00:29:22,570
that the families who wanted to go to a
564
00:29:22,570 --> 00:29:25,749
civilian camp they couldn't go because
565
00:29:25,749 --> 00:29:27,820
they had to go to vote every camera in
566
00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:30,460
these camps the people are used by the
567
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:32,950
guerrilla groups both as hostages and a
568
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:36,070
human shield the camps are overseen by a
569
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:38,889
clandestine Thai army unit called task
570
00:29:38,889 --> 00:29:41,950
force 838 which is funded and armed
571
00:29:41,950 --> 00:29:46,899
largely by the United States nearby is
572
00:29:46,899 --> 00:29:50,270
another armed supply warehouse
573
00:29:50,270 --> 00:29:53,300
at this warehouse sources have told me
574
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:55,940
who who are very quaint aware house that
575
00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:58,010
an American comes into the warehouse
576
00:29:58,010 --> 00:30:01,370
every few weeks and asks is there
577
00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:03,320
anything that is needed and that
578
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,480
includes military equipment requests are
579
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,070
then put in and the military equipment
580
00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:10,100
arrives I doubt that it comes directly
581
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:11,600
from the United States it's much more
582
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,980
likely that that would then come from
583
00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:16,190
Singapore but I find it highly unlikely
584
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:18,140
that Singapore is by itself
585
00:30:18,140 --> 00:30:20,390
paying for the arms that would end up to
586
00:30:20,390 --> 00:30:22,160
the Mackay penal F and it's more likely
587
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,710
that it comes from a deeper pocket like
588
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:27,740
the United States if our assistance our
589
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:30,100
overt and our covert assistance is
590
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,170
successful it will have the direct
591
00:30:33,170 --> 00:30:35,210
result of returning the Khmer Rouge to
592
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:39,860
power that's the end result of any kind
593
00:30:39,860 --> 00:30:41,900
of military successes of the people were
594
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:43,400
supporting it's the only time I can
595
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,190
think of in history where we would
596
00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:50,030
desperately not want the military
597
00:30:50,030 --> 00:30:52,760
success of the people whom we are
598
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,820
supporting and I think we're playing a
599
00:30:54,820 --> 00:31:01,100
very very dangerous game with you know
600
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:02,750
with our policy and the United States
601
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:05,600
policy is is just simply an obscenity
602
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,150
then why with the Khmer Rouge within
603
00:31:08,150 --> 00:31:10,490
striking distance of Phnom Penh is this
604
00:31:10,490 --> 00:31:12,559
policy which you described as an
605
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:15,410
obscenity still being pursued here in
606
00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:17,630
Washington well I think it's because
607
00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:19,700
there's a small group of people at the
608
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:22,250
top and the State Department and in the
609
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:24,230
National Security Council who are still
610
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:27,610
fighting the Vietnam War
611
00:31:28,110 --> 00:31:30,120
this is the State Department in
612
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,850
Washington last July Secretary of State
613
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:35,039
James Baker said that America had
614
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:37,860
changed its policy towards Cambodia but
615
00:31:37,860 --> 00:31:40,710
he gave few details I went to try and
616
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:42,600
find out exactly what America's policy
617
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,809
was
618
00:31:45,790 --> 00:31:49,340
sorry no I haven't been pre-cleared
619
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:58,580
no thank you first of all we don't
620
00:31:58,580 --> 00:32:09,770
permit any filming inside the camera I'd
621
00:32:09,770 --> 00:32:12,230
like to see married Colin Yates is the
622
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:14,090
head of the public affairs department
623
00:32:14,090 --> 00:32:20,300
please hello yes good yes I've been
624
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:23,480
trying to contact an official of the
625
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,700
press depart in state department for
626
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:29,000
more than a year to get upon a statement
627
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,760
of American policy on Cambodia and
628
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,530
that's why I've had to come here today
629
00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:37,160
to deliver this letter we believe our
630
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,720
urgent questions should be answered
631
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,920
that's the letter
632
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,740
I'll give us tomorrow and everything
633
00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:45,970
thank you very much for more than a year
634
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:47,440
now we've been asking the State
635
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,470
Department to speak about Cambodia
636
00:32:49,470 --> 00:32:52,600
simply to state American policy each
637
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,700
time we've been refused or fobbed off
638
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,100
I've never known such reticence in
639
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:59,740
Washington on any issue we've now
640
00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:01,630
learned that last April a policy
641
00:33:01,630 --> 00:33:03,640
decision was taken to keep the whole
642
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,220
question of Cambodia's future and of
643
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:08,529
American support for the Khmer Rouge off
644
00:33:08,529 --> 00:33:10,960
television the administration media
645
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,390
policy has is very clear that they feel
646
00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:15,450
they can take all of the editorials
647
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:17,799
against their policy in every newspaper
648
00:33:17,799 --> 00:33:20,679
in the country and that those are just
649
00:33:20,679 --> 00:33:24,370
glancing blows but they need to stay off
650
00:33:24,370 --> 00:33:26,679
of television and they have done
651
00:33:26,679 --> 00:33:29,080
everything they possibly could at time
652
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,240
and time again they've made commitments
653
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,149
to do TV interviews and national
654
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:36,700
networks and then reneged on the
655
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,380
commitments and then tried to bring
656
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:42,190
people it has low down a position in the
657
00:33:42,190 --> 00:33:44,500
bureaucracy to be the on-camera
658
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,980
spokespeople this is a policy that dares
659
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:51,039
not speak its name this is a policy
660
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:54,669
which cannot stand the light of public
661
00:33:54,669 --> 00:33:57,610
scrutiny this is a policy which is a
662
00:33:57,610 --> 00:34:02,460
cancer on the body politic of America
663
00:34:02,460 --> 00:34:04,259
but what are the roots of current
664
00:34:04,259 --> 00:34:07,710
American policy in Cambodia after Pol
665
00:34:07,710 --> 00:34:10,409
Pot had taken over in Cambodia in 1975
666
00:34:10,409 --> 00:34:13,319
his army attacked Vietnam killing
667
00:34:13,319 --> 00:34:15,809
thousands of villagers as this rare film
668
00:34:15,809 --> 00:34:19,949
shows in 1978 the Vietnamese overthrew
669
00:34:19,949 --> 00:34:22,339
the genocidal regime in Phnom Penh
670
00:34:22,339 --> 00:34:25,050
almost immediately the United States
671
00:34:25,050 --> 00:34:29,030
began to give secret aid to Pol Pot
672
00:34:29,659 --> 00:34:32,040
Washington was then courting the Chinese
673
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,649
who were Viet Nam's ancient enemies and
674
00:34:34,649 --> 00:34:38,339
Pol Pot's main backers the American aid
675
00:34:38,339 --> 00:34:40,530
to Pol Pot was critical in restoring the
676
00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:43,020
Khmer Rouge as a military force now
677
00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:46,469
operating from Thailand the extent of
678
00:34:46,469 --> 00:34:48,839
American support was revealed in this
679
00:34:48,839 --> 00:34:50,730
correspondence from congressional lawyer
680
00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:53,940
Jonathan Winer when this letter was
681
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:56,369
circulated the Reagan administration was
682
00:34:56,369 --> 00:34:59,819
furious then without explaining why the
683
00:34:59,819 --> 00:35:01,559
author appear da turd the information
684
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:03,390
although it had come from the
685
00:35:03,390 --> 00:35:06,720
Congressional Research Service however
686
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:08,849
the information in this second letter
687
00:35:08,849 --> 00:35:13,200
was he told me absolutely correct it
688
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,660
amounted to the same conclusion he was
689
00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:17,640
clear evidence that Pol Pot's secret
690
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,349
backer was Washington as a cover for its
691
00:35:22,349 --> 00:35:24,960
secret war against Cambodia Washington
692
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,299
set up the Kampuchea emergency group in
693
00:35:27,299 --> 00:35:30,869
Thailand known as CAG it ensured that
694
00:35:30,869 --> 00:35:32,970
Western supplies were delivered to Khmer
695
00:35:32,970 --> 00:35:37,530
Rouge camps in 1980 bowing to US
696
00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:40,319
pressure the World Food Programme handed
697
00:35:40,319 --> 00:35:42,900
over 12 million dollars worth of food to
698
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:45,480
the Thai army to pass on to the Khmer
699
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,970
Rouge in November of that year dr. ray
700
00:35:50,970 --> 00:35:52,799
Klein a former deputy director of the
701
00:35:52,799 --> 00:35:55,400
CIA and close advisor to Ronald Reagan
702
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,079
made a secret visit to a Khmer Rouge
703
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,010
base camp inside Cambodia
704
00:36:01,010 --> 00:36:04,859
within a year 50 CIA agents were running
705
00:36:04,859 --> 00:36:06,930
Americas Cambodia operation from
706
00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:10,049
Thailand Kang was now known as the
707
00:36:10,049 --> 00:36:12,720
working group it's job is to provide
708
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,720
battle plans war materiel and satellite
709
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:16,320
Intel
710
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,600
to the so called non-communist
711
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,060
resistance most of it paid for by
712
00:36:21,060 --> 00:36:24,390
Washington today American policy
713
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:27,270
continues unchanged behind the front of
714
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:29,940
United Nations involvement which may
715
00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:32,340
well have the final effect of turning
716
00:36:32,340 --> 00:36:35,870
Cambodia into another Lebanon
717
00:36:38,350 --> 00:36:40,550
Cambodia is the only country in the
718
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:42,380
world to be denied United Nations
719
00:36:42,380 --> 00:36:45,410
Development Aid and America with China
720
00:36:45,410 --> 00:36:48,880
has led this embargo
721
00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:52,670
without development aid Cambodia will
722
00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:54,680
never for example have uncontaminated
723
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,000
water and children such as these will
724
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,500
continue to die from preventable
725
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:07,190
diseases hang it's exactly one year
726
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:09,440
since we were here and walk down this
727
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,410
corridor of these children and nothing
728
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:14,720
appears to have changed at all the
729
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,300
patient sees the capacity of this
730
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:19,370
hospital you know that's why they still
731
00:37:19,370 --> 00:37:24,080
stay in the corridor see this little
732
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,910
child's exactly the same as a child
733
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:28,730
lying there a year ago who I doubt would
734
00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:32,900
have survived you ask the mother won't
735
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:36,560
you suffering from will Minkus or don't
736
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,940
you I mean this child is suffering from
737
00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:44,360
diarrhoea and fuel around nothing has
738
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:51,800
changed in one year there we have
739
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,140
children who are suffering and embargo
740
00:37:54,140 --> 00:37:56,870
means denying them the basic needs that
741
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:58,520
could help these children recover so
742
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,770
quickly those who sit in the United
743
00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:06,650
Nations in great comfort ought to be
744
00:38:06,650 --> 00:38:09,860
confronted by scenes like this actually
745
00:38:09,860 --> 00:38:13,460
stand next to a child in such need what
746
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:15,290
they did in United Nation energy is
747
00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:17,780
really unfair because they vote against
748
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:21,950
Cambodia and let children die because of
749
00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:24,640
diarrhea
750
00:38:27,009 --> 00:38:30,079
last year the United States stopped the
751
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:32,150
United Nations Development aid mission
752
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:36,349
from going to Cambodia Pol Pot has
753
00:38:36,349 --> 00:38:39,019
described American policy as very
754
00:38:39,019 --> 00:38:40,780
correct
755
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:44,309
[Music]
756
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,220
American officials have constantly
757
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:49,440
denied that they give any aid to Pol Pot
758
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,650
but US Army weapons are reaching the
759
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:55,799
Khmer Rouge via their allies and we have
760
00:38:55,799 --> 00:38:58,890
evidence of direct American and British
761
00:38:58,890 --> 00:39:02,099
assistance to Pol Pot from New Zealand
762
00:39:02,099 --> 00:39:05,160
su Elliot a senior official working with
763
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,099
Cambodian refugees talk to me on behalf
764
00:39:08,099 --> 00:39:10,380
of a former Cambodian gorilla who
765
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:12,119
fearing for his life must remain
766
00:39:12,119 --> 00:40:01,109
anonymous and also could you tell me
767
00:40:01,109 --> 00:40:04,799
what your source told you as far as his
768
00:40:04,799 --> 00:40:07,710
training outside Cambodia was concerned
769
00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:09,749
how did he get there and what happened
770
00:40:09,749 --> 00:40:25,710
when he what was the nationality of the
771
00:40:25,710 --> 00:40:31,710
principal advisors of the camp can you
772
00:40:31,710 --> 00:40:34,410
tell me what he told you about the
773
00:40:34,410 --> 00:40:36,359
training itself what were the particular
774
00:40:36,359 --> 00:40:39,029
military skills that were passed on to
775
00:40:39,029 --> 00:40:42,390
them by the British and American
776
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:44,269
advisers
777
00:40:44,269 --> 00:40:46,729
the training consisted on military
778
00:40:46,729 --> 00:40:51,409
strategy gorillas wolf attacked my plane
779
00:40:51,409 --> 00:40:55,549
and weapon handling they mine maying was
780
00:40:55,549 --> 00:40:58,609
one of the particular skills they were
781
00:40:58,609 --> 00:41:01,719
taught is that correct
782
00:41:06,570 --> 00:41:08,830
Britain's involvement was vividly
783
00:41:08,830 --> 00:41:10,869
demonstrated in September last year
784
00:41:10,869 --> 00:41:13,150
during the Vietnamese withdrawal from
785
00:41:13,150 --> 00:41:16,330
Cambodia in Phnom Penh were MPs and
786
00:41:16,330 --> 00:41:18,490
Claude and Jim Lester as parliamentary
787
00:41:18,490 --> 00:41:21,250
observers but there were two other
788
00:41:21,250 --> 00:41:25,380
mysterious British representatives
789
00:41:25,390 --> 00:41:29,950
I was introduced to them and I had some
790
00:41:29,950 --> 00:41:32,410
conversation with one of them initially
791
00:41:32,410 --> 00:41:35,529
and then the second one and I asked them
792
00:41:35,529 --> 00:41:37,180
what they were doing there so I was
793
00:41:37,180 --> 00:41:39,130
rather curious because clearly they
794
00:41:39,130 --> 00:41:41,559
weren't official delegates from the
795
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:44,499
United Kingdom and they told me that
796
00:41:44,499 --> 00:41:46,900
they were there on holiday but on the
797
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:48,969
official list of observers they are
798
00:41:48,969 --> 00:41:51,549
named as anthony norman and christopher
799
00:41:51,549 --> 00:41:54,849
mckenzie representing Great Britain from
800
00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:59,229
the Ministry of Defence now when you got
801
00:41:59,229 --> 00:42:01,329
back to London did you make inquiries
802
00:42:01,329 --> 00:42:03,459
about these two men yes because
803
00:42:03,459 --> 00:42:05,229
obviously I was very curious about them
804
00:42:05,229 --> 00:42:06,249
so I went to the House of Commons
805
00:42:06,249 --> 00:42:09,489
library and asked them to ring the Royal
806
00:42:09,489 --> 00:42:11,799
United Services Institute which was
807
00:42:11,799 --> 00:42:14,950
apparently where these men worked and is
808
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:16,930
based in Whitehall and make inquiries
809
00:42:16,930 --> 00:42:19,390
first of all to establish that they did
810
00:42:19,390 --> 00:42:21,700
work there and secondly to ask what
811
00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:25,150
their jobs were and back came the answer
812
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:26,559
who wants to know
813
00:42:26,559 --> 00:42:29,140
and then now scums library told me with
814
00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:32,349
when they told people the other end who
815
00:42:32,349 --> 00:42:35,589
wanted to know the response was the
816
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:37,079
information is classified
817
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:40,029
this is McKenzie and we know to have
818
00:42:40,029 --> 00:42:41,589
been a member of Britain's highly
819
00:42:41,589 --> 00:42:45,339
secretive SAS at the time of his visit
820
00:42:45,339 --> 00:42:47,920
to Cambodia McKenzie was a member of the
821
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,979
SAS our squadron which officially
822
00:42:50,979 --> 00:42:53,380
doesn't exist and therefore its
823
00:42:53,380 --> 00:42:56,650
activities can be officially denied this
824
00:42:56,650 --> 00:42:58,930
is the other mysterious Briton Captain
825
00:42:58,930 --> 00:43:01,630
Anthony de Norman known by his friends
826
00:43:01,630 --> 00:43:04,329
as the monster de Norman has a long
827
00:43:04,329 --> 00:43:07,420
history in the SAS at the end of last
828
00:43:07,420 --> 00:43:09,099
year covering as a freelance
829
00:43:09,099 --> 00:43:11,650
photographer the norman returned to the
830
00:43:11,650 --> 00:43:14,799
thai Cambodian border members of our
831
00:43:14,799 --> 00:43:17,440
squadron often passed themselves off as
832
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,920
photographers or tourists time after
833
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,390
time we've been told in the House of
834
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:24,459
Commons but there is no military
835
00:43:24,459 --> 00:43:27,309
involvement inside Cambodia minister
836
00:43:27,309 --> 00:43:29,799
after minister has stood at the box and
837
00:43:29,799 --> 00:43:33,039
repeatedly given us those assurances and
838
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:35,369
they mr. Waldegrave himself not long ago
839
00:43:35,369 --> 00:43:38,829
repeated this assurance concerned people
840
00:43:38,829 --> 00:43:39,579
in Britain
841
00:43:39,579 --> 00:43:41,259
received a copy of a parliamentary
842
00:43:41,259 --> 00:43:42,700
statement by the Foreign Secretary
843
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:45,880
Douglas heard it read we have never
844
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,339
given and we'll never give support of
845
00:43:48,339 --> 00:43:51,729
any kind to the Khmer Rouge this was
846
00:43:51,729 --> 00:43:53,170
echoed in a letter from the prime
847
00:43:53,170 --> 00:43:55,089
minister to the leader of the opposition
848
00:43:55,089 --> 00:43:59,380
but these statements were false Foreign
849
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:01,900
Office Minister Timothy Sainsbury later
850
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:03,910
wrote that Britain does not give
851
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:05,950
military aid in any form to the
852
00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:09,569
Cambodian factions but this too is false
853
00:44:09,569 --> 00:44:12,819
the SAS has given secret training to the
854
00:44:12,819 --> 00:44:15,069
Cambodian guerrillas for five years and
855
00:44:15,069 --> 00:44:18,279
as we can now reveal British support for
856
00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:20,789
Pol Pot has never been more crucial
857
00:44:20,789 --> 00:44:25,979
began around 1985 with first one
858
00:44:25,979 --> 00:44:29,229
training team going out from the SAS
859
00:44:29,229 --> 00:44:31,719
regiment in he referred to the Thai
860
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,269
Cambodian border to begin what became a
861
00:44:34,269 --> 00:44:39,579
series of training courses seminars for
862
00:44:39,579 --> 00:44:41,559
both the sea analysts and the Khmer
863
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,989
Rouge so the British knew they were
864
00:44:43,989 --> 00:44:47,410
teaching the Khmer Rouge yes quite quite
865
00:44:47,410 --> 00:44:49,900
quite definitely these were active
866
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:53,099
service SAS personnel up until October
867
00:44:53,099 --> 00:44:58,089
1989 when the whole question of the SAS
868
00:44:58,089 --> 00:45:00,789
role in training the Khmer Rouge became
869
00:45:00,789 --> 00:45:04,239
public and the stink that that resulted
870
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,599
in the in the Commons yes these were
871
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:11,769
serving assess troops what is the nature
872
00:45:11,769 --> 00:45:14,319
of British assistance to the Khmer Rouge
873
00:45:14,319 --> 00:45:16,779
now well my understanding is that
874
00:45:16,779 --> 00:45:19,209
following the route that erupted last
875
00:45:19,209 --> 00:45:21,849
autumn as a result of partly your
876
00:45:21,849 --> 00:45:24,670
program and partly because my own
877
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:26,559
newspaper the government put the word
878
00:45:26,559 --> 00:45:29,289
out that support from that date onwards
879
00:45:29,289 --> 00:45:31,900
was to be very much more covert in its
880
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:32,499
nature
881
00:45:32,499 --> 00:45:38,140
so that has passed very clearly to be an
882
00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:41,109
mi6 operation the result of that has
883
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:44,410
been that there are a number of former
884
00:45:44,410 --> 00:45:48,009
SS people who are now out of the service
885
00:45:48,009 --> 00:45:50,180
and who are private individuals
886
00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:52,430
but that are working to some form of
887
00:45:52,430 --> 00:45:56,779
contract to provide training and mines
888
00:45:56,779 --> 00:46:00,650
technology to the Kaveri what exactly do
889
00:46:00,650 --> 00:46:05,299
you mean by mines technology one can lay
890
00:46:05,299 --> 00:46:07,819
anti-personnel nor fruit mines which can
891
00:46:07,819 --> 00:46:11,089
be detonated automatically by the sound
892
00:46:11,089 --> 00:46:13,210
of people moving along with a track
893
00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:15,890
there are an increasing number of xxx
894
00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:19,010
personnel mines which fire thousands of
895
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:22,099
pellets into the air and once they bed
896
00:46:22,099 --> 00:46:23,720
themselves in people's bodies are
897
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:26,299
incredibly difficult to find for doctors
898
00:46:26,299 --> 00:46:28,789
working with fairly rudimentary field
899
00:46:28,789 --> 00:46:32,690
equipment and so these are the kinds of
900
00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:36,980
minds that being supplied by the British
901
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:38,720
my understanding is that the British are
902
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,099
still involved in supplying those
903
00:46:40,099 --> 00:46:42,880
hormones and how they British made mines
904
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,859
mines themselves need not necessarily be
905
00:46:45,859 --> 00:46:49,240
British because there are a series of
906
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:51,230
licensing agreements that obviously
907
00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:54,500
exists worldwide bringing with it the
908
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:57,440
element of deniability yes we're not
909
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,890
laying mines with made in UK on them
910
00:46:59,890 --> 00:47:03,079
like the US State Department the Foreign
911
00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:04,670
Office in London has shown a mark
912
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:07,520
reluctance to talk about Cambodia for
913
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,109
more than two months we sought answers
914
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:11,119
to questions raised in this
915
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:14,510
investigation but without success we
916
00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:15,740
asked for an interview with foreign
917
00:47:15,740 --> 00:47:18,170
secretary Douglas Hurd but this has been
918
00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:22,309
repeatedly refused last year millions
919
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:25,579
asked people watching your program to
920
00:47:25,579 --> 00:47:28,789
pick up their pens and write expressing
921
00:47:28,789 --> 00:47:31,099
their concern to ministers and members
922
00:47:31,099 --> 00:47:34,069
of parliament of all persuasions all
923
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:36,650
those people not only have a duty but in
924
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:40,880
my view have a right to write again to
925
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,589
those with political responsibilities
926
00:47:42,589 --> 00:47:45,470
saying look we gave our money we
927
00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:47,359
provided our support
928
00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:51,029
the solutions can only be found by
929
00:47:51,029 --> 00:47:53,759
governments providing aid on the scale
930
00:47:53,759 --> 00:47:55,979
that's necessary and by government's
931
00:47:55,979 --> 00:47:57,539
taking the political action that's
932
00:47:57,539 --> 00:47:58,249
necessary
933
00:47:58,249 --> 00:48:01,679
stopping the arm supplies stopping the
934
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:06,269
fighting people seeing the Pol Pot
935
00:48:06,269 --> 00:48:08,869
nightmare for what it was cannot imagine
936
00:48:08,869 --> 00:48:12,329
how that could be allowed to recur and
937
00:48:12,329 --> 00:48:14,189
what we see now on the ground those of
938
00:48:14,189 --> 00:48:16,650
us who are working with the people in
939
00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:19,529
humanitarian programs is gaining ground
940
00:48:19,529 --> 00:48:22,709
again poised ready to take over the
941
00:48:22,709 --> 00:48:25,799
reins of power once more now if that
942
00:48:25,799 --> 00:48:27,989
were to happen how could any of us live
943
00:48:27,989 --> 00:48:30,689
with ourselves into the future in the
944
00:48:30,689 --> 00:48:32,640
West we are told that the Cold War is
945
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,359
over but this is not so the Cold War was
946
00:48:36,359 --> 00:48:38,309
never just about attrition between the
947
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:40,919
two superpowers it was fought mostly
948
00:48:40,919 --> 00:48:42,839
with the blood of faraway people
949
00:48:42,839 --> 00:48:45,569
considered expendable in poor countries
950
00:48:45,569 --> 00:48:49,169
like El Salvador and Panama Vietnam and
951
00:48:49,169 --> 00:48:52,439
Cambodia it's surely the cruelest irony
952
00:48:52,439 --> 00:48:55,499
of 1990 that as the Berlin Wall is torn
953
00:48:55,499 --> 00:48:57,869
down the Western democracies have
954
00:48:57,869 --> 00:49:00,269
rebuilt its equivalent around a nation
955
00:49:00,269 --> 00:49:02,999
of people who threaten no one and with
956
00:49:02,999 --> 00:49:05,909
whom none of us have any quarrel indeed
957
00:49:05,909 --> 00:49:07,349
the extraordinary efforts of the
958
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:09,779
Cambodian people to recover from their
959
00:49:09,779 --> 00:49:12,689
nightmare of bombs and genocide ought to
960
00:49:12,689 --> 00:49:14,880
be the object of our lasting admiration
961
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,849
at the very least the willingness of our
962
00:49:17,849 --> 00:49:20,339
representatives to help them not hurt
963
00:49:20,339 --> 00:49:24,089
them the Khmer Rouge must be stopped
964
00:49:24,089 --> 00:49:26,579
they must be brought to trial at the
965
00:49:26,579 --> 00:49:28,650
international court of justice and
966
00:49:28,650 --> 00:49:31,679
expelled from the United Nations all aid
967
00:49:31,679 --> 00:49:33,749
and comfort to Pol Pot and his allies
968
00:49:33,749 --> 00:49:38,489
guns mines bombs uniforms training food
969
00:49:38,489 --> 00:49:41,880
and so called diplomacy must stop and
970
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,849
their bases in Thailand closed down and
971
00:49:44,849 --> 00:49:48,150
the wall built around Cambodia must be
972
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:50,640
torn down and aid to rebuild this
973
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,449
country denied no more every day these
974
00:49:54,449 --> 00:49:57,269
steps are not taken every day that
975
00:49:57,269 --> 00:49:59,999
governments are peas and deceives is a
976
00:49:59,999 --> 00:50:01,150
day lost
977
00:50:01,150 --> 00:50:04,109
for the people of Cambodia
978
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:31,410
[Music]
979
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:49,380
[Music]
69797
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