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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:05,839 in 1920 the leader 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,599 of an obscure german political party 3 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:10,150 made what seemed at the time 4 00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:10,809 an insignificant decision 5 00:00:10,150 --> 00:00:13,040 [Music] 6 00:00:10,810 --> 00:00:15,599 [Applause] 7 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:19,519 adolf hitler adopted a symbol for his 8 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:22,320 national democratic socialist party 9 00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:23,198 it was a symbol which over the next two 10 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,480 decades 11 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:30,640 would become synonymous with hatred fear 12 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:34,799 and a regime that slaughtered millions 13 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:38,239 the swastika the swastika means 14 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:42,959 nazism it means evil death 15 00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:44,718 and genocide in outfits it was an emblem 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:48,799 that i 17 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:51,760 hated and i didn't even want to see it 18 00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:54,238 but the swastika has a long and complex 19 00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:57,439 history 20 00:00:54,238 --> 00:00:58,718 for thousands of years this has been a 21 00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:02,399 religious symbol 22 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:06,320 with a sacred past a sign of benevolence 23 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:06,320 luck and good fortune 24 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:12,320 and for the nearly one billion hindus 25 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,799 around the world today 26 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,599 it lies at the heart of their religious 27 00:01:14,799 --> 00:01:17,600 practices 28 00:01:15,599 --> 00:01:19,280 and beliefs for me personally the 29 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:21,280 swastika means 30 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,359 hope it means purity it means 31 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,159 auspiciousness 32 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:26,879 the swastika will be used by hindus to 33 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:29,520 evoke 34 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:31,519 a sense of the sacred to draw the 35 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:33,759 attention of the divine 36 00:01:31,519 --> 00:01:37,840 to human undertakings 37 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:39,920 [Music] 38 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,079 but because of its recent past in the 39 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:45,280 west the hindu swastika 40 00:01:42,078 --> 00:01:48,559 has sometimes provoked hostility 41 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:50,719 i've got a tattoo of swastika on my lip 42 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,000 and when i got it done the tattoo artist 43 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:52,719 was a little taken aback and he's like 44 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,959 ah 45 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:56,959 do killer and i said no 46 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:01,519 in the week when hindus across britain 47 00:01:59,599 --> 00:02:02,640 are celebrating the holy festival of 48 00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:07,359 diwali 49 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,359 we tell the story of their sacred symbol 50 00:02:07,519 --> 00:02:10,799 and we bring together members of the 51 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,680 communities for whom 52 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,760 it has the most potent meaning to see if 53 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,959 a new experience of the swastika 54 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:20,959 could break down long-held prejudices 55 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:22,239 it's very beautiful i mean it's 56 00:02:20,959 --> 00:02:25,680 obviously quite different 57 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:28,080 being gold compared to red and black 58 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,439 can hindus restore the reputation of a 59 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:37,840 symbol they believe 60 00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:37,840 invokes the blessings of the divine 61 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:49,200 sunday morning chalfont cricket club in 62 00:02:46,318 --> 00:02:52,000 leafy buckinghamshire 63 00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:53,598 a place associated with english teas and 64 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,878 the gentle competitiveness 65 00:02:53,598 --> 00:02:56,878 of the weekend sportsmen 66 00:02:57,039 --> 00:03:01,598 certainly not a place you'd expect to 67 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,840 see a symbol most commonly associated 68 00:03:01,598 --> 00:03:05,389 with the fascist regimes of pre-war 69 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,598 germany 70 00:03:05,389 --> 00:03:11,359 [Music] 71 00:03:07,598 --> 00:03:11,359 but today is an exception 72 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:14,949 [Music] 73 00:03:17,519 --> 00:03:21,360 the club is host to a hindu wedding 74 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:25,740 celebration 75 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:29,659 in which the swastika plays a vital role 76 00:03:25,740 --> 00:03:29,659 [Music] 77 00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:35,039 as the guests congregate and the happy 78 00:03:32,878 --> 00:03:36,939 couple arrive the hindu priest 79 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:39,199 has an important task 80 00:03:36,939 --> 00:03:41,680 [Music] 81 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:43,119 this is hindu where is the kunkum 82 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,799 placing a swastika 83 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,420 in front of the sacred area where the 84 00:03:44,799 --> 00:03:48,879 couple will sit during the ceremony 85 00:03:47,419 --> 00:03:51,280 [Music] 86 00:03:48,878 --> 00:03:53,989 and the meaning of this swastika is a 87 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,598 world away from that of nazi germany 88 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:58,000 [Music] 89 00:03:55,598 --> 00:03:59,199 it's a diagram the moment you look at 90 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,400 the diagram which should 91 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:04,479 invoke the peace within you so it has 92 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,599 the swastika trustee means well-being 93 00:04:04,479 --> 00:04:08,659 swastika 94 00:04:05,598 --> 00:04:11,679 asking the well-being of the gods 95 00:04:08,659 --> 00:04:13,759 [Music] 96 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,599 a statue of the elephant-headed god 97 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:17,839 ganesh is placed at the center of the 98 00:04:15,598 --> 00:04:21,680 swastika 99 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,839 ganesh is the remover of all obstacles 100 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,319 and as the priest rotates him it's 101 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,049 believed any hindrances to the ceremony 102 00:04:26,319 --> 00:04:29,439 are removed 103 00:04:28,050 --> 00:04:31,919 [Music] 104 00:04:29,439 --> 00:04:33,439 for hindus the swastika isn't only a 105 00:04:31,918 --> 00:04:35,918 sacred power for good 106 00:04:33,439 --> 00:04:38,000 but an essential element of any right of 107 00:04:35,918 --> 00:04:43,839 passage 108 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,839 ramesh bhutni is the father of the groom 109 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:48,478 the words fastik actually comes from the 110 00:04:46,959 --> 00:04:52,159 sanskrit word for 111 00:04:48,478 --> 00:04:52,159 a state of auspiciousness 112 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,960 wherever any ceremony is performed and 113 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,160 hindus have got 16 ceremonies during the 114 00:04:56,959 --> 00:05:00,000 lifetime 115 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,320 and each one of them will have one way 116 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,360 or the other in which the swastika 117 00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:06,079 is represented in the wedding the 118 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,600 swastika 119 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:10,240 it is the most important because the 120 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:14,320 wedding ceremony marks a transition from 121 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,319 one period of life to another 122 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,319 and therefore all the auspiciousness is 123 00:05:19,038 --> 00:05:23,439 required 124 00:05:20,319 --> 00:05:26,159 hold their hands and get up yes it's the 125 00:05:23,439 --> 00:05:26,160 first exercise 126 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,680 as unlikely as it might seem to those 127 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,000 not brought up in the hindu faith 128 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,720 for the hindus here today a wedding 129 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,839 without a swastika would be unusual 130 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,759 i now declare you wife and husband may 131 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:45,038 god bless you look beautiful 132 00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:47,280 live happily ever after 133 00:05:45,038 --> 00:05:48,560 for this young couple the swastika 134 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,758 ensures their marriage 135 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:54,240 is blessed by the gods 136 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:55,310 it's a far cry from its associations in 137 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,038 the west 138 00:05:55,310 --> 00:05:59,120 [Music] 139 00:05:57,038 --> 00:06:00,399 most western people when they see it 140 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,720 they 141 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:07,279 see a nazi german symbol 142 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,759 shawnaka has been a hindu priest for 143 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:12,079 more than 30 years 144 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:13,439 it is interesting that hindus themselves 145 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:15,038 they're brought up with the swastika 146 00:06:13,439 --> 00:06:16,319 it's perfectly normal for them you see 147 00:06:15,038 --> 00:06:18,079 all the children at the wedding 148 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:19,680 they're just seeing it from birth then 149 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:21,519 they go to school and learn that the 150 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,240 nazis use it in this way 151 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:25,758 but you have to understand that here's a 152 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,759 tradition that's ancient 153 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:29,840 and the germans borrow it from a 154 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:33,199 different culture and misuse it 155 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,719 over less than two decades and all of a 156 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:37,520 sudden it develops an internationally 157 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,520 bad reputation 158 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,038 of all the symbols produced by ancient 159 00:06:42,079 --> 00:06:46,478 and modern man 160 00:06:43,038 --> 00:06:47,199 this is the most contradictory and its 161 00:06:46,478 --> 00:06:50,800 origins 162 00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:50,800 are shrouded in mystery 163 00:06:50,959 --> 00:06:56,000 images of the swastika have been found 164 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,000 across the world 165 00:06:56,478 --> 00:07:02,800 and the earliest examples date back 166 00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:04,478 thousands of years well the swastika is 167 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,879 one of those strange symbols that you 168 00:07:04,478 --> 00:07:07,199 find 169 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:08,399 in lots of different cultures you see it 170 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,960 in china and japan 171 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:13,279 you see it mongolia you see it in the 172 00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:15,359 ancient mediterranean world in greece 173 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:18,959 even over in native american cultures 174 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,960 and in the british isles as well 175 00:07:19,038 --> 00:07:22,719 but despite the swastika's prolificness 176 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,520 its original meaning 177 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,520 is an enigma 178 00:07:25,918 --> 00:07:29,519 perhaps it's just a simple elegant 179 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,160 geometry 180 00:07:29,519 --> 00:07:32,959 maybe it was a solar symbol it's so 181 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,960 universal 182 00:07:32,959 --> 00:07:36,719 that we can't really find a first point 183 00:07:34,959 --> 00:07:38,079 of use it just has a kind of an 184 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:44,060 instinctive appeal 185 00:07:38,079 --> 00:07:46,560 across the world 186 00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:48,879 [Music] 187 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,918 some of the most ancient swastikas were 188 00:07:48,879 --> 00:07:52,560 found here 189 00:07:49,918 --> 00:07:52,560 in india 190 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,720 [Music] 191 00:07:54,478 --> 00:07:58,318 and over the centuries it's been adopted 192 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,680 across the subcontinent 193 00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:04,720 by many different religions 194 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:07,598 hindus buddhists and jains 195 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,400 all see it as a holy symbol it's 196 00:08:07,598 --> 00:08:11,839 displayed 197 00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:14,399 just about everywhere to bring good 198 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:14,399 fortune 199 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,790 [Music] 200 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:22,080 and there's one time of year that it's 201 00:08:20,079 --> 00:08:27,839 especially prominent 202 00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:27,839 at the hindu festival of diwali 203 00:08:32,190 --> 00:08:35,249 [Music] 204 00:08:35,839 --> 00:08:41,839 it's a five-day celebration to mark the 205 00:08:38,158 --> 00:08:41,838 hindu new year 206 00:08:43,038 --> 00:08:49,919 also known as the festival of lights it 207 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,920 marks the triumph of good over evil 208 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:58,480 and in india the streets are a riot of 209 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,480 noise and color 210 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,600 the festival honors deities such as the 211 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,160 goddess of wealth lakshmi 212 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,120 and so the swastika is painted on the 213 00:09:08,159 --> 00:09:11,919 account books 214 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,720 for the new financial year to ensure 215 00:09:11,919 --> 00:09:14,719 prosperity 216 00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:23,838 but it's not just in the east that the 217 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:23,838 swastika features in diwali festivities 218 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,649 this is nisdan temple in north west 219 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,000 london 220 00:09:30,649 --> 00:09:34,838 [Music] 221 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,519 it's the spiritual home to thousands of 222 00:09:34,839 --> 00:09:39,519 hindus 223 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:40,639 and every diwali the ladies of the 224 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:43,679 temple spend 225 00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:46,639 hours making an incredible display 226 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:48,000 known as a rangoli like this one in 227 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:51,838 which the swastika 228 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,839 plays a central role 229 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,440 mongolia patterns are literal forms of 230 00:09:54,958 --> 00:09:57,919 art 231 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,519 and they're created by hand generally by 232 00:09:57,919 --> 00:10:04,319 women 233 00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:06,959 who use rice or coloured rice 234 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,600 avni chag has been celebrating diwali 235 00:10:06,958 --> 00:10:13,039 here for most of her life 236 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,278 tavali represents the festival of light 237 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:16,719 if you go back to physics lessons you'd 238 00:10:15,278 --> 00:10:18,720 always be taught how 239 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,480 the spectrum of colors originate from 240 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,879 white light 241 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,320 and i think that's completely it's 242 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:25,360 completely honoured within these 243 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,200 beautiful 244 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,039 beautiful geometric patterns within 245 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,000 these beautiful designs that 246 00:10:29,039 --> 00:10:33,120 are created during diwali and most 247 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,879 commonly you will see 248 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,278 the hindu swastika and for some it may 249 00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:39,679 mean 250 00:10:37,278 --> 00:10:40,399 prosperity for some it may mean good 251 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,529 luck 252 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:44,839 for me personally the swastika means 253 00:10:43,529 --> 00:10:47,838 [Music] 254 00:10:44,839 --> 00:10:47,839 hope 255 00:10:48,958 --> 00:10:53,439 for hindus who've grown up with the 256 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,440 swastika finding out that this emblem of 257 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,399 light has been used for the darkest of 258 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,000 purposes 259 00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:02,320 can be horrifying i was pretty 260 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,440 much born with the symbols surrounding 261 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,480 me 262 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:10,000 and at special occasions uh festivals 263 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:13,759 this symbol would be prevalent and then 264 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,360 when i finally uh started studying about 265 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:19,679 the second world war 266 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,680 in history lessons at school i freaked 267 00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:26,360 [Music] 268 00:11:26,839 --> 00:11:31,279 out 269 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:34,320 i saw the symbol and i was just 270 00:11:31,278 --> 00:11:34,320 completely gobsmacked 271 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,680 seeing it in this textbook associated 272 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,720 with the holocaust with genocide 273 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,599 with racial intolerance was quite a 274 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,959 shock 275 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:51,120 and i wondered how it could have been 276 00:11:48,958 --> 00:11:54,479 sort of mutated from something so 277 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,480 positive to something so negative 278 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,839 so how did this sacred symbol come to 279 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,759 symbolize one of the most 280 00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:03,760 evil regimes in history 281 00:12:07,278 --> 00:12:11,200 the swastika's metamorphosis began with 282 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:14,399 an archaeological dig 283 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,399 in the 19th century 284 00:12:16,078 --> 00:12:22,078 in 1874 excavations started at a site 285 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:25,360 believed to be the ancient city of troy 286 00:12:22,078 --> 00:12:27,439 in turkey 287 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,800 they were led by a german businessman 288 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,800 named heinrich schliemann 289 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:35,599 schliemann was an adventurer and his 290 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:36,320 real mission was was to find the real 291 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,680 troy 292 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:42,560 the troy of the homeric epics now 293 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,359 as he dug he found spheres strange 294 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,000 spheres with 295 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,680 an equator around them bearing the image 296 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,600 of what we would call the swastika 297 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,159 and plenty of fragments of pottery 298 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,320 bearing swastikas 299 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:57,838 what schliemann hadn't covered was to 300 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,839 have deadly consequences 301 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:01,360 his work would inadvertently lay the 302 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,600 foundations 303 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,680 for a new mythology of the swastika to 304 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,839 be constructed 305 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:10,319 one which would transform it from a 306 00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:12,959 sacred symbol of benevolence 307 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,278 into the nazi emblem of the aryan master 308 00:13:12,958 --> 00:13:15,278 race 309 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,278 now fleming did not know what these 310 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:20,799 symbols were but there were 311 00:13:19,278 --> 00:13:23,120 scholars who were willing to interpret 312 00:13:20,799 --> 00:13:24,879 these objects and these symbols for him 313 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,440 one of these men was a man called emil 314 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:27,439 bernouff 315 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,680 banoof was a scholar of ancient indian 316 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,680 literature 317 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,599 and it was to a hindu epic called the 318 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,519 rig veda that he turned 319 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,720 to try and make sense of schliemann's 320 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:41,360 find 321 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,480 in the rigvedas there are a people 322 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,720 called the arias 323 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,000 mentioned and in the lexicon of the 324 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,959 rigvedas 325 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,120 the word swastika is mentioned and 326 00:13:48,958 --> 00:13:53,119 scholars like bruneuf 327 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,959 put the swastika together with the arias 328 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,440 and said ah this was the 329 00:13:54,958 --> 00:13:58,479 the ancient symbol of these people the 330 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,600 arias 331 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:03,600 and these people were invaders 332 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,720 warriors who came from the north who 333 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,199 displaced 334 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,879 the existing people of of india and 335 00:14:07,198 --> 00:14:12,078 these were the same people 336 00:14:08,879 --> 00:14:13,759 who we find represented in the pottery 337 00:14:12,078 --> 00:14:15,198 fragments of troy 338 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:17,838 [Music] 339 00:14:15,198 --> 00:14:19,759 two entirely unconnected mythologies 340 00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:22,320 were becoming one 341 00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:24,559 the people of ancient troy were being 342 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,920 fused with the aryans of the hindu rig 343 00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:28,078 vaders 344 00:14:25,919 --> 00:14:31,360 and the swastika was the symbol that 345 00:14:28,078 --> 00:14:34,479 bernouf claimed united them 346 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:37,120 so really the the swastika fragment 347 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,199 became for pseudo scholars like bernouf 348 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,320 the perfect excuse to to build a new 349 00:14:39,198 --> 00:14:44,319 mythology 350 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:47,920 and invent a single pan-european 351 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,110 colonial warrior race using the swastika 352 00:14:47,919 --> 00:14:51,278 as their emblem 353 00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:53,519 [Music] 354 00:14:51,278 --> 00:14:54,399 for hitler a symbol with such a 355 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:57,278 mythology 356 00:14:54,399 --> 00:15:00,000 albeit invented was the perfect emblem 357 00:14:57,278 --> 00:15:01,759 for his ambitions for germany 358 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,198 the nazis were involved in this huge 359 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,519 project of trying to create 360 00:15:03,198 --> 00:15:07,198 a new history for themselves they 361 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,198 weren't really happy with their 362 00:15:07,198 --> 00:15:11,278 association with christian history 363 00:15:09,198 --> 00:15:14,799 because they saw that as having hebrew 364 00:15:11,278 --> 00:15:17,439 jewish roots and it was that notion of a 365 00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:19,278 history that was being kind of imagined 366 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,000 out of these different symbols and 367 00:15:19,278 --> 00:15:25,360 sources that hitler wanted to use 368 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:28,720 to give the nazi movement 369 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,720 its own foundation 370 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,399 within decades the swastika had been 371 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,039 ripped from its ancient 372 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:40,078 religious roots and become shorthand for 373 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:43,360 the nazis 374 00:15:40,078 --> 00:15:43,359 and their chilling agenda 375 00:15:44,799 --> 00:15:50,399 it was perhaps the most successful 376 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:52,958 example of cultural theft in history 377 00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:55,919 when you look at the swastika you don't 378 00:15:52,958 --> 00:15:59,599 think this is the symbol of hinduism 379 00:15:55,919 --> 00:16:04,559 no the swastika means nazism 380 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,560 it means evil death and genocide 381 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,480 with its new connotations across europe 382 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,360 so entrenched 383 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,680 it seems unlikely that the hindu symbol 384 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,399 can 385 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:18,879 ever rid itself of the shadow of nazism 386 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:20,799 especially when for those who suffer 387 00:16:18,879 --> 00:16:24,879 directly in the holocaust 388 00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:24,879 it unlocks terrifying memories 389 00:16:26,958 --> 00:16:37,198 i was taken into my first camp at 390 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:40,399 11 and a half it was just 391 00:16:37,198 --> 00:16:40,399 a horrendous place 392 00:16:40,450 --> 00:16:44,560 [Music] 393 00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:47,920 eric hirsch lost 81 members of his 394 00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:47,919 family under the nazis 395 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:53,039 as hussmen were there 396 00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:54,958 [Music] 397 00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:56,480 they were beating people and hanging 398 00:16:54,958 --> 00:16:59,919 people and 399 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:05,838 just few of us survived but you see 400 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:05,838 the swastika everywhere 401 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,500 and i applaud it actually 402 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:14,500 [Music] 403 00:17:15,038 --> 00:17:32,480 i hated to to look at the demon 404 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:35,199 because i suffered very much under it 405 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,839 and even for young jews today it's a 406 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,410 symbol 407 00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:40,548 they still struggle with 408 00:17:37,410 --> 00:17:40,548 [Music] 409 00:17:41,919 --> 00:17:49,440 i do shudder when i see it 410 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,960 it's something that is very infamous in 411 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,960 the jewish community 412 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,798 and is something i think it would be 413 00:17:52,960 --> 00:18:00,400 very difficult 414 00:17:54,798 --> 00:18:02,639 to change 415 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,720 the nazi theft of the hindu's sacred 416 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,600 symbol changed the perception of the 417 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,360 swastika 418 00:18:05,599 --> 00:18:09,359 in the west forever 419 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:16,400 and yet at the time in india it was 420 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,400 something most hindus were unaware of 421 00:18:17,038 --> 00:18:20,480 the vast majority of hindus especially 422 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,200 in rural areas 423 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,720 mostly illiterate obviously did not know 424 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,000 for a very long time 425 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:30,400 how it had been used by the nazis but 426 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,839 for the educated classes i think there 427 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,480 was a sense of being appalled 428 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:39,038 and amongst hindus today feelings 429 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:42,160 against the nazi's theft of the swastika 430 00:18:39,038 --> 00:18:44,079 run high germany 431 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,320 thought they can hijack this sacred 432 00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:48,720 symbol from the vedic culture 433 00:18:46,319 --> 00:18:50,720 and use it you know to enforce their 434 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,079 white supremacy and all that 435 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:57,360 and people are very angry and upset that 436 00:18:54,079 --> 00:18:59,439 you know a sacred symbol so dear to them 437 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:02,399 in their religion is hijacked by 438 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,400 somebody like this 439 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,960 after the war the feeling against the 440 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:11,840 swastika was so strong 441 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,840 that in germany and poland it was banned 442 00:19:12,079 --> 00:19:16,319 and since then it's become shorthand not 443 00:19:14,798 --> 00:19:19,599 for divine blessings 444 00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:19,599 but for race hatred 445 00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:27,119 it's a misappropriation that's had a 446 00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:29,279 real impact on hindus today 447 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,439 the difficult thing is that the swastika 448 00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:34,798 that hitler uses and the swastika 449 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:38,400 that indian culture uses really do 450 00:19:34,798 --> 00:19:39,918 look a lot the same often the indian 451 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,240 swastika will have dots 452 00:19:39,919 --> 00:19:44,000 between the forearms but there aren't 453 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,319 any definite differences that you can 454 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,160 always use to separate them out 455 00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:49,359 and that can make it hard for people to 456 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,400 distinguish which 457 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:55,199 symbol they're looking at 458 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,600 and it's this confusion in a society 459 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,679 with little understanding of hinduism 460 00:19:57,599 --> 00:20:01,519 that's led to the hindu symbol 461 00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:06,320 inadvertently finding itself 462 00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:10,158 under attack 463 00:20:06,319 --> 00:20:13,038 in 2007 german meps proposed a ban 464 00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:13,679 of the public use of swastikas right 465 00:20:13,038 --> 00:20:17,759 across 466 00:20:13,679 --> 00:20:18,720 the european union it was a proposition 467 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:23,279 that upset 468 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:26,400 many hindus the british hindus 469 00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:28,798 woke up to this and they carried out 470 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,320 a campaign to bring awareness to the 471 00:20:28,798 --> 00:20:33,359 members of the parliament of 472 00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:35,918 british parliament to 473 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,678 make them understand that how sacred 474 00:20:35,919 --> 00:20:38,830 this swastika is to the 475 00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:41,840 hindu faith 476 00:20:38,829 --> 00:20:43,599 [Music] 477 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:48,319 the british hindu response was that this 478 00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:49,918 was a eurocentric proposal 479 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:51,918 it wasn't taking into account the bigger 480 00:20:49,919 --> 00:20:54,159 picture 481 00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:56,880 millions of people use this symbol on a 482 00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:56,880 daily basis 483 00:20:57,919 --> 00:21:01,280 what had started out as an anxiety about 484 00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:03,678 nazism 485 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:06,079 had turned into a fight for religious 486 00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:06,080 freedom 487 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,400 if europe wants to be seen as a truly 488 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,720 liberal society 489 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,480 then it has to really be liberal in the 490 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,600 bigger picture 491 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,279 it has to let go of its history maybe to 492 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,599 look at how this symbol 493 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:23,759 has been used in the world in such a 494 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:26,719 positive way for thousands of years 495 00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:27,679 compared to the european historical 496 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,919 aberration 497 00:21:27,679 --> 00:21:32,159 that we have that needs to be recognized 498 00:21:29,919 --> 00:21:36,000 but also needs to be balanced 499 00:21:32,159 --> 00:21:39,760 with the bigger picture the reaction 500 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,759 stopped the ban in its tracks 501 00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:45,520 and british hindus were free to display 502 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,279 their sacred symbol once more 503 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:49,200 but even though it's not illegal in 504 00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:52,038 britain to show the swastika 505 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,279 hindus who do display it sometimes face 506 00:21:52,038 --> 00:21:56,798 misunderstandings 507 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:58,000 and even insults one of the things about 508 00:21:56,798 --> 00:22:01,279 hindus is we don't 509 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:04,798 always explain ourselves very very well 510 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:08,079 and children if they take into school 511 00:22:04,798 --> 00:22:10,480 something which displays the swastika if 512 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:12,720 their friends and even the teachers 513 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,159 don't know the meaning they sometimes 514 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,079 get chastised 515 00:22:14,159 --> 00:22:21,520 or even worse you know bullied for 516 00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:23,678 being associated with nazism so 517 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:24,720 barty taylor spends much of her time 518 00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:27,679 teaching children 519 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,279 about hinduism so it's a holy symbol for 520 00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:30,080 us whether you draw it the other way or 521 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:32,480 this way 522 00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:34,399 for her the key to hindus being able to 523 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,599 show the sign without fear 524 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,679 is knowledge i think that 525 00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,199 we should have more education so that 526 00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:44,798 everybody understands 527 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:48,240 that symbol is meant to be for the good 528 00:22:44,798 --> 00:22:50,879 not an evil symbol 529 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:55,839 but can western european perceptions 530 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,840 really be changed 531 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,240 well where better to start than with the 532 00:22:58,159 --> 00:23:03,320 community for whom the swastika 533 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,359 holds the greatest fears the jews 534 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:08,158 [Music] 535 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,959 today josh de bell a member of a london 536 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:11,039 synagogue 537 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,240 has been invited to the local hindu 538 00:23:11,038 --> 00:23:14,240 temple in nisden 539 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,359 the hindus want to show him the 540 00:23:17,038 --> 00:23:21,279 beautiful rangoli they've created 541 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,119 and to talk to him about their 542 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:25,440 connection with the swastika 543 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,798 in the hope that he might begin to see 544 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,798 it in a different light 545 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,038 if i saw a swastika on the wall in my 546 00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:35,360 local area 547 00:23:33,038 --> 00:23:36,960 i would report it straight away as an 548 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:40,158 anti-semitic attack 549 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:43,819 it's uh something that is synonymous 550 00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:46,640 with uh with hate crimes 551 00:23:43,819 --> 00:23:48,240 [Music] 552 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,200 but i can understand that when josh 553 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,558 comes he'll come with some idea of the 554 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,319 swastika 555 00:23:52,558 --> 00:23:56,000 and it'll be interesting to see how he 556 00:23:54,319 --> 00:23:59,839 feels when he does see it 557 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,839 when it's portrayed within the temple 558 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:03,919 [Music] 559 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:06,000 i don't know that much about it as a 560 00:24:03,919 --> 00:24:09,120 hindu symbol 561 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:18,150 so i really hope to learn about 562 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:21,119 what it means to the hindu faith 563 00:24:18,150 --> 00:24:24,150 [Applause] 564 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,558 avni is going to show him around 565 00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:29,679 [Music] 566 00:24:26,558 --> 00:24:31,119 hello hello hi josh nice to meet you 567 00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:31,440 nice to meet you too how are you i'm 568 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,359 good 569 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,789 welcome to nathan temple we're very 570 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,399 happy to be here yeah 571 00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:38,720 [Music] 572 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:43,038 and the first swastika josh encounters 573 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,038 appears before he even gets inside 574 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,840 the mainstream world like to point out 575 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:51,278 to you is on the doors 576 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:51,599 and the swastika oh yes and i guess what 577 00:24:51,278 --> 00:24:54,319 it 578 00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:55,038 represents or means here is a sign of 579 00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:57,439 welcome 580 00:24:55,038 --> 00:24:58,240 and it's welcoming and wishing them good 581 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,200 luck as they 582 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,839 enter the temple to pray it's really 583 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,919 interesting 584 00:25:01,839 --> 00:25:05,759 i mean me and my people seeing that 585 00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:08,159 symbol in the past has not really 586 00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:10,480 provided me with that as many times as 587 00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:12,799 you can see it yeah yeah 588 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:16,159 [Music] 589 00:25:12,798 --> 00:25:19,679 how do you feel about it it's 590 00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:21,679 it's it's just a little uh taken aback a 591 00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,840 little bit by the uh 592 00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:25,360 seeing it like this it's obviously quite 593 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:28,480 different being gold 594 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,719 compared to red and black oh yeah yeah 595 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,599 but it's it's uh it's really really 596 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,200 beautiful 597 00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:37,318 are you going in yeah sure 598 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,318 [Music] 599 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,120 the swastikas on the doors had a real 600 00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:43,679 impact on josh 601 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,109 and what lies inside is even more 602 00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:46,640 striking 603 00:25:45,109 --> 00:25:49,199 [Music] 604 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,080 how do you feel now seeing seeing this 605 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,519 and this is 606 00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:56,158 more in red now oh right 607 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:57,440 so this is called a rangoli and i guess 608 00:25:56,159 --> 00:25:59,600 it's an expression of 609 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,919 worship and you find it as well at times 610 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:03,119 of like really big religious occasions 611 00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:05,520 or ceremonies 612 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,399 the swastika represents prosperity and 613 00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:08,798 good luck and 614 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,798 wealth 615 00:26:09,759 --> 00:26:13,200 how do you feel like in terms of the 616 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,319 shape or is it 617 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,200 something that's different obviously to 618 00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:19,278 me it's the most 619 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,558 anti-jewish symbol that i've ever seen 620 00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:23,200 in terms of 621 00:26:20,558 --> 00:26:24,079 the death of a lot of my people in my my 622 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,720 religion and 623 00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:27,439 uh i mean it seems a little bit less 624 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,278 harsh 625 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,038 okay yeah because of the cow yeah i 626 00:26:29,278 --> 00:26:34,319 think so see um 627 00:26:31,038 --> 00:26:37,200 when i was growing up i always had this 628 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:38,240 positive view of swastika so i never 629 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,159 understood 630 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,278 how it could mean something you know 631 00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:43,278 that it may mean to you 632 00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:49,038 as josh's visit draws to an end he's got 633 00:26:46,558 --> 00:26:50,558 a lot to think about 634 00:26:49,038 --> 00:26:51,839 i was taking him back on the doors and 635 00:26:50,558 --> 00:26:54,480 taking it back a little bit but now you 636 00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:55,839 talk about it a little bit more 637 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,839 and that's why i think the dialogue is 638 00:26:55,839 --> 00:26:58,639 really really important we talk a lot 639 00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:00,399 about what 640 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,679 separates us but hopefully we can use 641 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,960 this symbol to 642 00:27:01,679 --> 00:27:06,640 come together and talk about the things 643 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,640 that we have in common 644 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,679 of knee and josh's experiences of the 645 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,799 swastika 646 00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:15,038 are worlds apart but their meeting 647 00:27:12,798 --> 00:27:17,200 has started to break down long-held 648 00:27:15,038 --> 00:27:19,679 prejudice 649 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,519 it's still very very strange and a 650 00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:24,798 little alien to me 651 00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:26,879 but it's actually uh changed some of my 652 00:27:24,798 --> 00:27:31,509 opinions about 653 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,840 the swastika maybe it can be used for 654 00:27:31,509 --> 00:27:34,558 [Music] 655 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,480 good 656 00:27:34,558 --> 00:27:38,798 i think josh's visit is like the first 657 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,798 step in the jewish community coming to 658 00:27:38,798 --> 00:27:43,119 understand that the swastika 659 00:27:40,798 --> 00:27:44,158 means so many different things he 660 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,479 understood that 661 00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:47,760 it doesn't necessarily have to mean one 662 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,759 thing 663 00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:52,029 universally it can mean different things 664 00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:54,879 for different people 665 00:27:52,029 --> 00:27:56,398 [Music] 666 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,200 i don't know whether the jewish 667 00:27:56,398 --> 00:28:01,278 community will 668 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,120 feel the same way as i do but you know 669 00:28:01,278 --> 00:28:04,319 what hopefully we can really start to 670 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,678 educate ourselves 671 00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:07,039 that this symbol can be used for 672 00:28:05,679 --> 00:28:13,120 something positive 673 00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:15,918 [Music] 674 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,599 perhaps this ancient hindu symbol which 675 00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:19,200 for so long has held such 676 00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:20,798 different meanings for these two 677 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,720 religious communities 678 00:28:20,798 --> 00:28:23,220 might actually bring them closer 679 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,159 together 680 00:28:23,220 --> 00:28:28,720 [Music] 681 00:28:26,159 --> 00:28:30,080 and as hindus across britain prepare to 682 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,000 celebrate the valley 683 00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:34,639 the festival that marks the banishment 684 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,278 of darkness and the coming of light 685 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,320 maybe it's a first step towards the 686 00:28:37,278 --> 00:28:41,359 swastika 687 00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:43,439 being reclaimed for good 688 00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:44,719 i think over time the swastika will be 689 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,880 redeemed in europe 690 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,798 just because something in one context 691 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,240 looks bad doesn't mean we slam it 692 00:28:48,798 --> 00:28:52,798 we have to look at the bigger picture 693 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,759 always so the change will come 694 00:28:52,798 --> 00:28:55,759 it'll just take time 695 00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:59,918 wouldn't it be nice if one day there are 696 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:02,319 people who saw the swastika being used 697 00:28:59,919 --> 00:29:05,679 in public and said oh i know that symbol 698 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:09,278 that's a indian symbol and hindus use it 699 00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:10,960 to signify auspiciousness and blessing 700 00:29:09,278 --> 00:29:12,480 and when they later come to see the nazi 701 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,679 use of the symbol they think gosh that's 702 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,720 horrific that's really inappropriate 703 00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:27,840 if we can get to that point then finally 704 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:27,839 hitler will really have been defeated 705 00:29:34,299 --> 00:29:37,838 [Music] 706 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:45,288 um 707 00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:45,288 [Music] 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