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On 27th July 50 years ago,
the decriminalisation of sexual acts
between consenting males
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over 21 - in private -
in England and Wales
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00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,920
was given the royal assent
by a young queen.
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And I can only imagine
what my father would have thought
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as he took the 8.17 train
from Witham into Liverpool Street,
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and then the news,
homosexuality had been legalised,
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not knowing that,
far away across the country,
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I was sitting there in my
little shorts,
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plotting and preparing for
a long career as, you know,
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a screaming queen!
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Since then, a lot has changed for
gay people in Britain.
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There we go. I do.
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What do you call yourself now, then?
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An accidental lesbian. Right.
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Tres-bien. Tres-bien!
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But in the long journey towards
mainstream acceptance,
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has something also been lost?
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It was rare to be gay, and it was
fun finding a world that was.
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Have we sacrificed community
and the spirit of the outsider
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for the rather conservative
values of the straight world?
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Never in a million years
would I have thought
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that I could marry a man.
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I'm taking a trip around the country
to see just how much a nation
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that used to lock men up for being
homosexual has really changed.
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Excuse me, sir.
Do you know that he's bent?
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Well, I do now.
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Is Britain finally able to accept
the full 50 shades of gay?
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To many people, the idea of being
criminalised for being gay
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might seem like ancient history,
but even after decriminalisation,
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gay men still risked police
persecution and disgrace.
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In Manchester, I'm visiting a now
boarded-up public convenience
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with former police officer Roger.
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And you were a young police officer.
Yes, I was. Yes.
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And you were sent down there
to do what?
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We were in what was called
the plainclothes department.
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It was a licensing vice department
and we would look
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into complaints and take whatever
action we thought was necessary.
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So you would come down here
and what would happen, exactly?
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Well, you'd come down the staircase
here and see men using these
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toilets in and out, in and out,
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but then you'd notice that some
men weren't going in and out
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and we would wait and watch,
see what they were doing.
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Did they have to do something
that was incriminating?
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What we would find sometimes,
the men were masturbating. Hm.
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Not each other, that would be
an offence of gross indecency,
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but what you'd find,
they'd be standing, facing the wall
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and masturbating,
and staying there for a period,
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looking sideways and that would...
That would be enough?
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That would be our...
Yeah, importuning.
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So you'd go and stand next to
somebody, I'd be here,
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observed by you coming and going
as someone who's not leaving. Yes.
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And then you move up towards here...
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Probably here.
I love you saying there.
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How are you going to see if I've got
an erection from over there?
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We can see over the top.
If it comes up high?
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And we can probably see your arm
moving for masturbation.
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And then, so, wank, wank,
wank, wank, wank,
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and then look, look, look, look,
look, and then you'd say...
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I'm a police officer,
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I'm arresting you for importuning
for an immoral purpose.
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And what were their faces like at
that point?
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00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,240
Aghast. Aghast? Yeah.
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00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,280
When these things happened and
you saw that aghast face,
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00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,600
and you knew someone was going
to get a criminal record,
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basically, for these things,
didn't they? Yes.
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It's quite a responsibility,
in a way.
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It was, and I wasn't happy about it
because my true feelings were
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live and let live, but that was my
job at the time
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and I had to do that.
I didn't have a choice, really.
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It's kind of unimaginable
that you'd have to...
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You'd think people would even
think of going down to a
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public toilet to have sex, really.
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It's like being in the Titanic here,
almost.
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It wasn't probably to have sex,
it was more to pick up. Yeah.
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We used to be arresting
people for importuning
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because we thought they were then
going to commit... An immoral act.
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It must have seemed like the
end of the world for a poor guy
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00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,240
who's already hiding his sexual
identity to be suddenly faced with
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00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,720
the, kind of, spotlight of a court
appearance and in the courts,
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always, there were
journalists from the local paper
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00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,440
just on the off-chance that
something exciting would happen,
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so you really had a chance
to be quite...
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00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,800
..ruined by these experiences,
right up, I think, until the '70s.
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00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,240
But this dangerous and illicit
atmosphere didn't put any of us off.
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In fact, in some ways,
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it strengthened
the sense of solidarity we felt.
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You walked into the shadows
and found a whole new world.
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My parents sent me
to a sixth form college in London
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and I was what was called a PG -
a paying guest -
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in a very nice house, and they had
two dogs called Samson and Biscuit.
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I would take Samson and Biscuit
for a walk and, one day,
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I saw this extraordinary
figure in total black leather
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and I had never, ever seen anything
like this before. He squeaked.
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He had, like, high boots on, he had
a biker's hat, and we couldn't
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believe what was happening, me
and Samson and Biscuit, and...
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He turned left in this road,
and we followed,
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and then he went into this pub
and we followed and we went,
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looked through the windows
of this pub
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and it was full of
cowboys and Indians...
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..and more of these people
in extraordinary leather outfits.
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The next day,
I decided I'd go in myself.
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Right in the heart of respectable
West London,
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this scene of fantasy
and defiance would open my eyes.
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I'm now on my way into the
renowned ex-Coleherne Arms,
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which has now been renamed
The Pembroke.
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It was quite an extraordinary place
and every time I used to come,
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I used to walk around the block
about five times
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before coming in to get the
courage up, to make sure there
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were no friends of my parents or
something who would see me going in
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because it was a well-known
den of iniquity.
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Coming to the Coleherne meant so
much more
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than just coming for a
drink in a bar.
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You were joining a community
with its own codes,
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its sense of identity and belonging,
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and even its own language.
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I'm meeting up with some of the
other surviving stalwarts
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from the old days.
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I loved Polari.
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Can you speak any Polari?
I remember it.
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Vada your eek. Vada your eek, yeah.
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If someone gives me a phone,
I should read you the beginning
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of the Bible in Polari cos it's
absolutely brilliant.
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Yes, "In the beginning,
Gloria created heaven and the earth.
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"And the earth was nanti form
and void,
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"and munge upon the eke of the deep.
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"And the Fairy of Gloria trolled
upon the eke of the aquas.
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"And Gloria cackled, 'Let there be
sparkle.' And there was sparkle.
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"And Gloria vardad the sparkle,
that it was bona.
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00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,200
"And Gloria medzered
the sparkle from the munge.
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00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,000
"And Gloria screeched
the sparkle journo,
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"and the munge she
screeched nochy.
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"And the bijou nochy and the morning
were the first journo."
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LAUGHTER
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It's genius.
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The thing I remember about coming
in here was that there
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was something about, you counted
just for daring to come in, somehow.
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Yes. Because we were still...
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We weren't illegal in
the '70s and '80s,
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but it was still a
difficult position,
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so the whole feeling of community,
which there really was in the '70s,
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particularly since it was such a
small community, that seems to me...
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It's all gone.
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That community that we had
because of it, the joy was finding
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other people who were like you
in those sort of situations.
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It was exciting to meet people,
to find people who were gay.
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It was rare to be gay and it was fun
finding a world that was.
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Even after the change in the law
in '67, all through the '70s,
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the television imagery was
still either screaming queens
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or people who were deviants.
It was so negative.
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There were no positive role models.
But it made us resilient.
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Even the feyest queen is actually
quite macho in a way
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because they knew how to protect
themselves. Oh, absolutely.
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If you're going to be camp or drag
or semi-drag or anything,
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you had to be tough as nails.
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One of the things that was
marvellous about the time in here,
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everyone would be standing,
quite a lot of people on their own,
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you could just go up behind them
and fiddle with their bums
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or touch their cock and stuff
like that, and no-one really minded.
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If they didn't want it,
they would just push you off.
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Let's go outside
and go around the corner.
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All the motorbikes were here. Yes.
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And everyone stood at this corner.
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That was quite intimidating,
arriving at this corner. Yeah.
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And then cruising would
happen round here.
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And this is where my friend
Tom Bell lived,
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and we used to just sit in this
window at closing time in the pub
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and if we saw someone we fancied,
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we'd come beetling out
and follow them around,
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cos everyone just went round
and round and round the block.
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You'd go to the end here, and then
you could go into the mews
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back there, and then that's where,
quite often,
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things really kicked off.
This was great.
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Oh, yes.
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You used to go through here
and then you'd be found like this.
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It used to look
different in the dark.
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You'd disappear round the corner,
get arranged and then...
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LAUGHTER
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Happy memories? Yes.
Without a doubt.
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Really, really happy, yeah.
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Although I loved the camaraderie
and the spirit of defiance of the
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gay scene in those days, it's hard
to convey at this distance just how
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00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,800
weird and conflicted wider British
attitudes to homosexuality seemed.
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It had been legal to be gay for
ten years, but I don't think that
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00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,040
really had changed very much,
to be quite honest.
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I think it was still seen as...
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..something quite horrific.
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I find them to dress
very effeminate,
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plus speak very effeminate as well,
you know?
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The way they walk
and the way they talk.
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And yet, at the same time,
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00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,080
the likes of Freddie Mercury
and David Bowie were massive stars.
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00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,040
Extraordinary things
happening in mainstream television,
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it's all about drag.
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England was a very, very peculiar
place because it was
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just a huge, mass of different
standards and contradictions.
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APPLAUSE
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Oh, what a gay day.
How are you? All right?
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So did that sexually messed-up
and deeply hypocritical nation
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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,160
I remember really
vanish into thin air?
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I'm setting off around
Britain to find out.
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00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:17,360
she had an elaborate kind of, erm,
ritual which she had lovely...
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She was lovely, my mum.
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00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,760
She had hair like this
and she'd pull up strands
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00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,880
and she backcombed
then, like this, and they'd stand up
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00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,560
and then she had this big can
of Elnett hairspray and I would hold
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00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:33,040
the Elnett and she would backcomb
the thing and I'd go, kssssssh!
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00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,160
Like this and I was obviously
enthralled by this process
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00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,760
and one day she said... We caught
each other's eyes in the mirror
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00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,200
and she said, "I'll kill you if
you're queer." And I went, "Oh!"
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00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,840
So I knew by that
point there was going to be some
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00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,120
kind of battle ahead.
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Of course she didn't mean it
and mother came round in the end.
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00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,200
Since those days, gay visibility has
become part of the cultural
mainstream
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00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,920
but I wonder if it's been on terms
dictated by the straight world.
215
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,480
My own career took a new
turn as Julia Roberts'
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00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,640
gay sidekick in
My Best Friend's Wedding.
217
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:20,520
And he comes towards you,
the moves of a jungle cat
218
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,600
and although you quite correctly
sense that he is...gay,
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00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:31,000
like most devastatingly handsome
single men of his age are,
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00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:37,480
you think, "What the hell.
Life goes on."
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00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,000
Maybe there won't be a marriage,
maybe there won't be sex...
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00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,080
..but by God, there'll be dancing.
223
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,840
As this scene shows,
it was a gift of a role
224
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,600
but on the other hand,
my character was the heroine's witty
225
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,560
sidekick and not, unfortunately,
the romantic lead.
226
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,080
20 years later, there's
possibly a greater range of gay
227
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,400
characters in mainstream film
and television.
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00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,400
WOLF WHISTLE
229
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,040
Oh, my God!
230
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,200
Looking pretty hot
there in your Marigolds.
231
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,600
Want me to keep them on?
232
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,040
I'm watching Hollyoaks
and basically this is like porn.
233
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:44,840
Well, the reason I'm so fascinated
by Hollyoaks, is that it's full of
234
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,600
young people, some of them gay, but
a lot of them straight and play...
235
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,440
Playing in mainstream television,
236
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,600
going into the houses
of everyone around England.
237
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,800
You know, amazing gay stories
including crystal meth
238
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:06,120
addiction and HIV. There's no holds
barred in the Hollyoaks approach.
239
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,320
Kieron is gay
and plays gay character, Ste.
240
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,680
Parry is straight
and plays Ste's gay lover, Harry.
241
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,200
I've come to visit them
on set in Liverpool.
242
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,640
It's been challenging at various
points in my career being gay,
243
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,000
at least certainly for
when I was younger,
244
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,200
it was suddenly a much more
complicated thing.
245
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,000
How does it feel...
How does it feel for you?
246
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,920
Before I came out publicly, I ended
up coming out on a television show.
247
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,440
Oh, right. Hang on, let's go back.
So when you came into this show...
248
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,880
When I was first in the show,
my character was straight.
249
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,880
Hadn't explored his sexuality
and I wasn't out publicly, either.
250
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,160
But you were gay then. Yeah. Right.
But not publicly.
251
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,360
I remember before I did it,
there was one person that was like,
252
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,880
as soon as you do this,
you're going to end your career.
253
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,280
And I'll never forget those words.
254
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,480
But in actual fact,
it was completely the opposite
255
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,840
and I can't believe that I was
ever in the closet, as they say.
256
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,520
You, for example, aren't gay. No.
257
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,160
So that must be quite a pressure
in one sense. How does that feel?
258
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,640
Erm... I don't really know. To me,
because I've had no...
259
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,840
Anyone that comes up to me
in the street and says,
260
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520
I like your character and stuff,
261
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,000
I've been really lucky that no-one
said anything negative or
262
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,240
no-one's come up to me
and said anything homophobic
263
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,440
which I thought would be if I was
on their screens every day.
264
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,360
Who, for example, is the fan base?
Is it girls, is it gays or is it...?
265
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,480
A lot of teenage girls, I think,
love it but the female fan base
266
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,600
are the ones that obviously get
involved on the social media.
267
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,720
They have this thing
called FanFicts where
268
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,160
they create their own storylines...
You should be doing.
269
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,920
What they should be doing. Lots
of them are sexual ones, as well.
270
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,040
It's a lot of teenage girls that
write these FanFicts.
271
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,040
Maybe straight sexuality,
because of porn and everything,
272
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,040
it's become quite shocking to young
girls and maybe this is slightly...
273
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,480
There's a little bit of distance for
them and they can observe men but
274
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,160
without feeling that, God, they're
going to have to do all of this...
275
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,480
Fantasy to it. It's strange, though.
276
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,120
For all the shades of gay
on display in Hollyoaks,
277
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,400
it's striking that some of the most
popular gay characters seem
278
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,240
to appeal to teenage girls.
279
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,640
But enough of youth
and beauty in Liverpool.
280
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,680
I want to go to a conventional
British wedding.
281
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,760
To many, the clearest indication
of a gay friendly Britain was
282
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,680
the legalisation of gay
marriage in 2013.
283
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,680
I'm not a particular
fan of marriage in general.
284
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,480
Either straight or gay,
to be honest.
285
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,040
In my day, they were kind of
slightly gruesome events where the
286
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,520
stag do, some poor hookers would be
got in to give blow jobs
287
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,440
to men on coke under the table
288
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:04,400
and I always found it quite horrible
and none of the marriages lasted.
289
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,120
And I remember thinking,
thank God, I'm gay
290
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,120
and I don't have to go through
all this.
291
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,440
I'm on my way to one of the most
impeccably respectable gay
292
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,640
weddings of the season.
293
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,640
Paul Burrell is the former
royal butler
294
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000
and the man Princess Diana
called, Her Rock.
295
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,000
At a five-star
hotel in the Lake District,
296
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,600
he's preparing for his wedding
to his partner, Coop.
297
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,760
Until recently,
Paul was in a heterosexual marriage
298
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,040
and has two grown-up sons.
299
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,360
Here we are today and you are
getting married. Tell me one thing.
300
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:52,080
Was civil partnership not enough?
No. So why is that?
301
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,880
Because marriage
now between two men,
302
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,160
after all the struggles that
people are enduring and everything
303
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,600
else, and everything that's
happened in history,
304
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,440
now is a time to stand up and say,
"Yes, we can get married, yes,
305
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,080
"we can stand side-by-side in
public,"
306
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,240
and that is fantastic for me.
307
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,160
Never in a million years would
I have thought that
308
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,400
I could marry a man.
309
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,120
I'm in my element as I help
Paul with the floral
310
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:20,400
arrangements for the day.
311
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:25,720
Pull it through their like that
and then pull it up like that. OK?
312
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,440
Fill me in on the format of the day.
313
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,680
OK, ceremony is going to
be in that room, there.
314
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,200
And then we come down and I think
that's when it's going to
315
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:41,280
really hit me that I'm actually
getting married to a man.
316
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,960
This is the man!
317
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,560
To that man.
How embarrassing. And do you know?
318
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,280
It's only been, for me, a couple of
months since I...
319
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,520
I hate this word, came out. It's
horrible, it's horrible. Is it?
320
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,480
Yes. Oh, right. Yes.
321
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,840
Because I wanted to marry Coop,
322
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,400
our bands had to be read and then
the media found out and I was outed.
323
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,600
Oh, they didn't think you
were gay before?
324
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,440
I mean you're very butch,
I understand,
325
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,880
but I thought you were married
but gay-ish. Gay-ish.
326
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:21,040
What is gay, Rupert? Well, I don't
need to give you a geographical...
327
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,400
You see I think we are
all on that sliding scale.
328
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,520
How did being gay hit you
when you were aged 18, 19?
329
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,680
When I was reaching puberty,
of course,
330
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,440
you begin to realise then who you're
attracted to and I was going
331
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,360
to a boy's school and I thought,
there's something wrong with me.
332
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:38,920
Why do I feel this way?
333
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,960
After football and rugby,
334
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,000
getting changed and going into the
showers was a nightmare for me.
335
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,760
You should've come to my school.
Was it much fun at your school?
336
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,360
Unbelievable, my school.
337
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,400
I had sex with almost everybody
in the school before I was eight.
338
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,240
So when did you have your first...
339
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,560
When did it kind of hit
you being properly gay?
340
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,440
When you came to London?
341
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,960
Coming to London, of course,
342
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,840
as a young 18-year-old having no
sexual experience at all, was
343
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,800
an eye-opener and going to work
at Buckingham Palace, of course...
344
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,440
Was that aged 18. 18. My first job.
345
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,680
The royal family seem to be rather
gay friendly to you
346
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,120
if you ask me, it seems.
347
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,480
I met, of course,
every member of the royal family
348
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,600
and all their friends too.
And it is a very flamboyant society.
349
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,800
The thing is,
the institution of marriage,
350
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,680
as the Queen said to me one day
whilst we were feeding the corgis,
351
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,040
she said, "Do you know, Paul,
marriage is a fine institution
352
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,040
"and when you have
children inside a marriage,
353
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,800
"it's a wonderful foundation on
which to build your life.
354
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,640
"Have you thought about getting
married?"
355
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,400
And I said, "Well,
Your Majesty, I have, yes,
356
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,280
I'd love to have children." She
said, "Well, look around the palace.
357
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,640
"There's some beautiful young
girls around the palace."
358
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,040
And your wife was one of them?
359
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,760
My wife was one of them so I went
into the Queen's bedroom one
360
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,440
day and there's this young girl
pulling over-the-counter pain
361
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080
over the Queen's bed and she says,
"Could you give me hand with this?"
362
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,560
And I did. I pulled over the...
And I thought, you are very sweet.
363
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,040
And that was my wife. I met why
wife in the Queen's bedroom.
364
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,000
Will she be coming tomorrow? No.
365
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,520
I don't think it would
be appropriate for her to be here.
366
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000
Because this is another world,
it's a different world.
367
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,520
Rupert, I am absolutely
amazed that you do not
368
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,000
believe in the institution of gay
marriage.
369
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,960
As a gay achievement, I absolutely
see it as being a major thing.
370
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,640
For me, personally,
371
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,120
I suppose I was just brought up
not to like marriage.
372
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,720
But that's sad and you'll never wake
up with a partner whom you've
373
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,480
just married and say, "I'm going to
spend the rest of my life with you."
374
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,520
Yes, but I could be saying that to
someone I hadn't been married to.
375
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,960
Yes, you could,
but it's still transient.
376
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,680
The whole of life is transient. We
mustn't get into a fight about it.
377
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,640
One other question. Is it very rude?
378
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,520
Do you think
I could see your outfit?
379
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,840
There we go. I do.
380
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,960
Yes, well, you see tomorrow,
you said, "Will Diana be with me?"
381
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,280
She will because she had those made
for me and so I'll wear those
tomorrow.
382
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,920
They're gorgeous, aren't they? Yes,
they're lovely.
383
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,920
Is this everyone...? Yes,
this is my family.
384
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,640
Hello, hello.
385
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,080
Good to see you. Are you good?
386
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,320
Rupert, this is my little baby,
Nick.
387
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,240
Hi there, how are you?
And Alex. Hi, Alex, how are you?
388
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,840
Thank you very, very much. Have a
lovely time. We well. Bye.
389
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,480
It's a long road from the coal
hearne to a wedding in the
Lake District.
390
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,600
But when it comes to gay
acceptability in Britain,
391
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,560
I sense there's still some way to
go.
392
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,400
I think everything at the moment is
Alice in Wonderland in our country.
393
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,000
Nothing is quite what it seems
394
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160
so there's Paul Burrell's wedding
accepted by everyone around.
395
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,440
The hotel, the people working in the
hotel, no-one raised eyebrows
396
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,680
but elsewhere, you can
just never tell how things are.
397
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,640
Now that you can't say faggot
or poof or all the things that you
398
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,920
used to be able to say, you now
don't really know who's
399
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,160
thinking faggot or poof.
400
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,200
So the gay world should not just
think, "Oh, the job's being done."
401
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,960
but being an outsider brought with
it a marvellous sense of freedom.
402
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,880
You felt you belonged nowhere
and everywhere.
403
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,040
It feels as if there's no
sense of community in the same
404
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,760
way as there was.
405
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560
Now, on Grindr, you just send
a picture of your arsehole
406
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,480
and say, "I'm five minutes away."
407
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:57,560
Hooking up for sex is
now infinitely easier.
408
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,520
We've all become more virtual.
409
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,960
The world is a screen where anything
is available at a swipe,
410
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,880
and I wonder about the consequences
for gay life.
411
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,960
At a nightclub called Heaven
in London,
412
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,960
I'm meeting my old friend,
DJ Fat Tony.
413
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,160
A self-described former junkie,
he now helps other gay men
414
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,240
who are addicted to chem-sex,
drug-fuelled sex parties.
415
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,200
The gay scene at the moment,
the way it stands,
416
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,960
you don't go out to pick up men.
417
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,960
You don't go out to find sex.
You don't go out for a date.
418
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,480
It's all done by iPhone.
It comes to you.
419
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,560
The sad thing about it for me
420
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,240
is the fact that the gay scene has
lost that intimacy.
421
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,720
Sex parties took over,
so people stay in now.
422
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,360
They stay in
and they do their drugs at home.
423
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,160
They kind of think it's
glamorous to slam.
424
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,360
They think it's glamorous to have
these sex parties where
425
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,200
they've got 20 guys in the house
all weekend,
426
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,880
that rotate from house to house.
427
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240
These kids,
they don't go to one sex party.
428
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,520
They go out on a Thursday
or a Friday,
429
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,240
they go to a sex party,
they stay there for 24 hours.
430
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,680
From the minute they go in that
house, they are all on Grindr.
431
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,000
They're all sitting there on those
apps looking for the next party.
432
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,040
They exhaust the drugs at that
party, they go to the next party.
433
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,640
What is the solution?
434
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200
Do you, for example, agree with
the legalisation of drugs?
435
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,120
That's a tough one,
because, you know, for me...
436
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,640
Drugs aren't the problem for me.
437
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,720
I'm the problem. What made you stop?
438
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,800
I got to that point in my life where
it was either stopping or dying.
439
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,520
Right. I literally weighed 7st,
I had no teeth,
440
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,760
I'd pulled all my teeth out.
I had a thing called meth mouth,
441
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,680
where, when I smoked cigarettes,
I used to have to literally
442
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,240
open my mouth, like that, because my
cheeks would stick together.
443
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:47,160
Do you think a need to conform is
driving people to excess?
444
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,000
Oh, without a doubt.
We don't have tribes any more.
445
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,520
We don't have that look.
We don't have punks.
446
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,080
We don't have all of that
freedom of the way we are,
447
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,680
but what we do have is, we have this
conformity to be a gay male,
448
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440
to go to the gym,
to take steroids, to be as pumped
449
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,880
and ripped as possible,
and to do as many drugs as possible.
450
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,360
That's our aim.
451
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,480
That's kind of, like, the gay
lifestyle that we have today.
452
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:11,880
You know?
453
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,320
Growing up around that and being a
16-, 17-year-old kid that
454
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,040
strives to be the perfect gay male,
it's conforming.
455
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,600
Of course it is.
456
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,360
With some gay men in Tony's world
behaving in self-destructive ways,
457
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,960
perhaps we can't really
say that the problems of being
458
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,520
gay in Britain have
entirely gone away,
459
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,960
and in some communities, the path to
acceptance is much slower.
460
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,240
The lyrics and performances
like this show that
461
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,720
overt homophobia is still seen as OK
in some Jamaican music, for example.
462
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,160
I'm meeting rapper Jay Rouge
and his friend Hannah,
463
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,840
whose plucky reaction to the
hostility they'd experienced
464
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,040
strikes a powerful chord.
465
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:19,040
# When will the change
The change gon' come?
466
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,800
# The change is gonna come
467
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,240
# I swear down
I will make your pussy run
468
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,120
# If you regret, say you've fucked
it, this one
469
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,920
# You're over there shouting
Yo, suck your mum
470
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,160
# Batty boy, he take it up the bum
471
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,960
# I'm looking like she's got the
wrong one
472
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,680
# Tolerance? I ain't got none
473
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,400
# You seein' me
I'm a gangsta gay. #
474
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,560
So, were you always out gay? No?
475
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,760
Not at all? No. No.
476
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,360
I was outed.
477
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,240
My cousin,
who I was really close to, she knew.
478
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,120
We had a disagreement... Right.
..and then she told my family.
479
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,600
My family are from Jamaica. Jamaica,
480
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,280
that's the one thing I really don't
understand,
481
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,440
is the homophobia in Jamaica.
482
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,560
It's more of a thing where
they are just set in their ways.
483
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800
It's been there for so long. It's
one of the most homophobic places,
484
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,800
and it's got such a large
homosexual population,
485
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,320
but growing up in my community,
486
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,240
I listened to hip-hop,
487
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,080
it was very homophobic, so even if
no-one said to you
488
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,800
being gay is wrong,
the songs told you gay is wrong.
489
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,120
So, when I was outed,
everyone who was close to me,
490
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,680
like, in my family, I lost.
491
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,600
Coming out, not through choice,
I dated someone at my church.
492
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,800
I really, really, really
was in love with them, but then
493
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,000
a deacon at my church found out and
ended up going to the person's...
494
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,800
well, my ex's house, and telling
her mother and threatening
495
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,800
to tell my mother, and having the
pastor talk to me and stuff.
496
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,000
It was ridiculous. Yeah, my mother
struggles with it. Still? Yes.
497
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,560
I think she always will.
498
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,600
What about the music business
and being gay?
499
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800
What's that like?
500
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,160
It's one of them taboo things,
especially rapping as well,
501
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,440
because obviously it's more seen
as a butch thing,
502
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,720
more of like, you know, homeboy
thing, girls and money and stuff,
503
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,440
but when we talk about dick and
stuff, it's like, "Wow!"
504
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280
So, it's a bit of a controversial
thing. Tell me about the lyrics.
505
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,640
They're quite explicit,
these lyrics.
506
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,160
My lyrics are explicit
because when I spit
507
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,760
I feel like I shouldn't have to dumb
down or water down anything
508
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,360
that's got to do with me,
509
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,040
because of how I was treated in the
black community,
510
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,360
and because I feel like no-one
should have to
511
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,160
suppress their feelings,
or be oppressed or be depressed,
512
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,800
and I've been through
all those stages.
513
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,800
So I'm basically
unapologetically gay and, also,
514
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,720
literally just saying, "Fuck you,
it is what it is."
515
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,520
# You puts it in my mouth
I'm gonna feel you growin'
516
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,520
# Sink it in deep
Feel it in my throat
517
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,360
# The face fucking me
You know I'm not gaggin'
518
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,000
# And when you're bustin' nuts
You know I'm swallowin'... #
519
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,320
In the black community, things can
still be fairly complicated,
520
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,240
and I think his
way of dealing with it,
521
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,160
his way of giving himself
courage is, in a way,
522
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,880
to make his lyrics very,
very explicit
523
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,960
and very, very shocking, so that at
least, in the middle of that shock,
524
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,720
he is out there saying, "This is who
the fuck I am, and get used to it."
525
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,320
The feeling of gay identity still
being a struggle,
526
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,360
and perhaps a source of
secret shame,
527
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,840
isn't always to be found in the
places you might most expect it.
528
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,600
In 2007, former Chief Executive of
BP, Lord Browne,
529
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,440
was forced to resign after a scandal
involving a male escort
530
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,560
he'd met on a website called
suitedandbooted.com.
531
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,280
I'd made my mind up that
I was absolutely
532
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,320
going to keep my sexuality
to myself.
533
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,400
I had decided that I was going to
run two lives - a public life
534
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,640
and a private life -
535
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,160
so I decided to have an escort
once in a while... Heaven.
536
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,360
Then I found one, and I made
a relationship with him. Mm-hm.
537
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,480
The big mistake of course was,
this was not really a relationship,
538
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,800
so we stopped it,
539
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,640
and then he sold his story to the
Mail On Sunday.
540
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,240
So, in 2007, I think,
right at the beginning of the year,
541
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,280
I get a phone call from the
BP press office,
542
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,600
I'm on New Year's holiday,
543
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,200
they're saying, "Well, John, the
Mail On Sunday is on the phone..."
544
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,840
This was a Friday.
545
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,800
"..and they've got 39 questions,
or something,
546
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,360
"and they're all about you
being gay. Is that true?"
547
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,840
What was the feeling of sheer
cold terror?
548
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,560
Terrifying. Terrifying?
549
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,680
And on May 1st 2007,
550
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,640
I had decided that
I would resign from BP.
551
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,000
What you think about the City of
London? Is it easy...
552
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,640
It's mixed. It's very mixed.
553
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,680
What I'm struck by, I think it is
the case still,
554
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:35,040
that two-thirds of gay graduates
555
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,840
who have been open at university
556
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,040
go back into the closet
when they go into business. Really?
557
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,520
And most of that's in finance.
Still now? Still now.
558
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,880
Hmm. The top 500 companies
in the entire world,
559
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,680
you'd think that there are a few gay
people running those,
560
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,960
statistically, you know,
25, maybe 5%.
561
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,680
Actually, there is one,
and that's Tim Cook.
562
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Everyone is either in the closet,
or no gay person made it
563
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,440
to the top of one of the big 500
companies in the world.
564
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,800
Which is impossible. Which is
impossible.
565
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,720
I mean, I don't think my role
model was a role model
566
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:16,800
I'd want anyone to follow,
in hiding their sexuality,
567
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,680
and now you don't have to.
You really don't have to. Hmm.
568
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,440
In your head, you have these
terrible fears that, you know,
569
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,360
now everyone knows I'm gay,
I'm an open homosexual,
570
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,200
no-one will take me seriously,
no-one will talk to me.
571
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,160
All my friends will go away,
572
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520
people will cross the street, no
government will take me seriously,
573
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,160
they'll try and put me in jail
in the Middle East...
574
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,600
Uganda. ..and Russia and so forth.
Actually, none of that was true.
575
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,040
And people would stop me in the
street and want to shake my hand
576
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,000
and say, "We're right with you.
We're right with you."
577
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,080
If Lord Browne has
realised that his world
578
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,240
isn't as prejudiced as he feared
it would be, all across Britain
579
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,840
gay men and women have been making
a similar discovery.
580
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,880
Well, here I am again.
581
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,440
Now I'm in Southend, dragged
up in my hard hat again, as usual,
582
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,800
and I'm off to find a gay carpenter
called Steve
583
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,520
on this building site on the
Chichester Road in Southend.
584
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,080
So, let's go.
585
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,840
Excuse me, I'm looking for Steve.
586
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,640
I'm Steve. You're Steve? I'm Rupert.
How are you doing, Rupert?
587
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,520
How are you? How many
people are working on this site?
588
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,120
There's probably about 30 builders
at the moment, I think.
589
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,640
And are these people you work
with all the time?
590
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,080
No, they change every day.
They change every day?
591
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,400
Yeah, so sometimes when you're
coming out as gay, I might sit
592
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480
in the lunch room and someone will
go, "What's your wife's name?"
593
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,440
And I'm like, "I'm into guys."
594
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,680
And it's one of those things -
I either say or I just keep quiet
595
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,480
and don't say. I don't lie,
I just don't say anything.
596
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,960
That's quite interesting.
597
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,960
Because I'm sort of coming out every
job that I go to, yeah.
598
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,240
When I first came out, there weren't
any gay builders around,
599
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,440
so this young labourer that was
working for me
600
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,160
at the time came into work
and said to me,
601
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,400
"I heard you're a bit of a batty
boy, you like it up the arse,"
602
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,000
and I just stood at the top of this
scaffold thinking, "Shit."
603
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,800
It was like a pause moment for ages,
and I said to him, "Why?
604
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,240
"Have you got a fucking problem
with it?"
605
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,760
"No, no, I've not got a
problem with it,"
606
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:19,840
and he just suddenly backed down,
607
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,320
but for about three months
no-one spoke about it.
608
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,560
I knew people knew, but they didn't
know how to talk to me
609
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,240
until the youngsters, I think
610
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,160
it was more the youngsters who
started with a bit of banter,
611
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,880
then it became more acceptable
612
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,440
and they could communicate through
banter. Right.
613
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,760
Excuse me, sir.
Do you know that he is bent?
614
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,720
I do now. Did you know before? No.
615
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,360
Is he the first bent person you have
ever come across on a building site?
616
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,280
Yes. Yes? To be honest, yeah.
617
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,440
And what you think about that?
618
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,240
It's all right. It don't matter to
me.
619
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,320
And have you ever
come across anyone else?
620
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,440
No, not that I know of.
But you never know, do you?
621
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,400
Steve here is gay. Did you
that before? This morning, yeah.
622
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,720
This morning? Yeah.
Was it a shock? Not really, no.
623
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:13,080
Did these reactions surprise you?
No, not really. I think nowadays...
624
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,400
Talking about your sexuality,
no-one's really that interested.
625
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,520
Bothered. Everyone just
wants to know that they can get on.
626
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,560
No-one's really bothered what
you do back at home.
627
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,760
It's always nice to come back to the
town you were brought up in.
628
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,960
But I never thought I'd come back to
the lesbian capital of Britain.
629
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:39,720
They reckon it could be as high
as one in ten
630
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,960
declaring themselves lesbian.
631
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,960
So, I'm watching Bernard Ingham,
632
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,360
Margaret Thatcher's former
press secretary,
633
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,720
returning to
Hebden Bridge 15 years ago,
634
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,640
and he's absolutely appalled that
there are so many lesbians there.
635
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,720
He's pretty appalling.
636
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,960
I'm surprised he's not in the Tory
government right now.
637
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,720
I'm on my way to Hebden Bridge
myself,
638
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,640
and Bernard's words make me more,
not less, keen to experience it.
639
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,640
I'm very much looking forward to
letting my inner lesbian come out.
640
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,440
I joined the local women's choir
for a rousing rendition
641
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,680
of I Am Woman.
642
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,720
# If I have to, I can do anything
643
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,800
# I am strong
644
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:49,920
# Strong
645
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,680
# I am invincible
646
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:52,960
# Invincible
647
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,040
# I am woman. #
648
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,400
THEY LAUGH AND CHEER
649
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,480
I feel really empowered!
650
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,920
THEY LAUGH
651
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,480
Hebden Bridge looks like any gritty,
Northern, former mill town.
652
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,360
But it's also a vision of how much
Britain has changed.
653
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,320
At the school gates,
I meet mums, Amanda and Debbie.
654
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:24,080
In this school, how many of the kids
are from same-sex couples?
655
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,200
I'm not sure about how many, in
terms of percentage of this school,
656
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,200
but the primary school that the
kids came from last year... Mmm.
657
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,000
..over 50% of the kids - there's
about 20 kids in that class -
658
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,640
about 50% of them had lesbian mums.
Right.
659
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,840
So we didn't have to explain
anything, cos it was done for us.
660
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,360
And what about... Between
children themselves, obviously,
661
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,640
there's some children who have
two mothers, and then some children
662
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,840
who have a mother and father.
How did they talk among themselves,
663
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,760
for example, when they talk about
fathers and stuff like that?
664
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,920
Some kids here have two mums
and two dads. Right.
665
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,440
So they might have used
a gay male as a donor.
666
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,480
A friend or some sort of...
A friend. Yeah, right.
667
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,200
So they might have two dads,
two mums.
668
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,640
We've also got friends that
have said to us their kids have
669
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,560
come home and gone, "It's not fair,
Billie's got two mums
670
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,280
"and I've only got one."
But actually, you know...
671
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,280
One of the issues we've got
in Hebden, though,
672
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,400
which probably doesn't happen
anywhere else, is quite a lot
673
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:16,640
of lesbians use the
same clinic in Manchester.
674
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,680
So we have this kind of conversation
about, "OK, what was your
675
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,000
"donor profile? What did it
look like?"
676
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,120
"OK, well, I went for the fireman,
I went for the GP,
677
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,560
"I went for the security guard."
678
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,080
And then we kind of go,
"Oh, OK, great, they're not...
679
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,360
"biological siblings."
680
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,800
Hello, gorgeous. Hello.
681
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,000
How are you?
682
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,440
Hiya. Hello!
683
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600
That's Rupert.
Hello, Rupert Everett.
684
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,200
THEY LAUGH
685
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,480
How are you? Good. What's your name?
Alfie.
686
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,280
Excellent. Hi, there. Hello.
I'm Rupert. Nice to meet you.
687
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,200
What's your name? Billie. Billie.
Will we walk through the park with
688
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,840
you all? ALL: Yeah.
Absolutely.
689
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,400
Are you applying for the job, Alfie?
690
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,560
THEY LAUGH
691
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,000
So when Debbie and I decided that
we wanted to have children,
692
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,080
at that point we had to
pay for magic seed, didn't we?
693
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,520
So we went to a doctor
who could get us some magic seed,
694
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,280
and your donor offered
to come along...
695
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,880
Sperm.
Oh, Billie.
696
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,400
THEY LAUGH AND GIGGLE
697
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,120
What's a sperm? They've obviously
discovered it. Oh, my God!
698
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,600
Our kind of attitude towards it
is that we just keep talking
699
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,080
when they ask and stuff like that.
700
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,840
And they can meet him,
if they want to.
701
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,840
I mean, I think
Hebden's been fantastic for us.
702
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,800
So when we first had Billie,
we lived in a different town
703
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,240
and we got quite a lot of...
704
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:42,440
Harassment.
705
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,400
When you've experienced
homophobia from an early age,
706
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,600
it's really exhausting.
And to come here, it just feels like
707
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,080
you can recover. That's how I feel.
708
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,800
I feel like I've recovered. Living
here, your sexuality doesn't matter.
709
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,320
You're seen as a parent first,
and you can just get on with
710
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,920
being a parent.
711
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,120
And that's all we've
ever wanted, really. Yeah.
712
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,000
Can't get a better place, can you?
713
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,240
No, you're right. I think
it's just really lovely.
714
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:06,400
Are you happy here? Yeah.
715
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,520
And it isn't just lesbians who feel
freed up by the atmosphere
716
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,000
of Hebden.
717
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,960
The owners of the local tea shop,
Charlie and Kim,
718
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,080
moved here four years ago to find
a place they could be themselves.
719
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,640
When you met...?
I was still living male, yeah.
720
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,760
And did you always think,
in the back of your mind,
721
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,120
that you wanted to...? Yeah, I had
been thinking it for quite
722
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,480
a long time.
723
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,160
It was kind of a process of sort of
getting up the courage, I suppose.
724
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,720
Dunno, it seemed to have, like,
a stigma attached to it, you know.
725
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:49,520
We thought we were gonna lose
the business.
726
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,320
I had to sort of, like,
prepare myself that my transition
727
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,680
was gonna be seen by the whole town
and everybody was gonna be
728
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,600
involved in it.
729
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,040
You know... I mean, but Kim
presented quite male, really,
730
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,880
when we first met, you know.
731
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,280
A lot of people were
really quite shocked.
732
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,560
It's such a difficult journey
you're negotiating.
733
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,280
Did you ever, at any point,
think of splitting up,
734
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,120
or did you always think of going
straight on through?
735
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,640
I always wanted to be with Kim,
that's never come under question.
736
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,280
You know, it's just whether or not
I could handle everything
737
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,320
that came with that, really,
you know?
738
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,880
And, you know, throughout the
whole journey, we've not known
739
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,680
how I'm gonna end up
feeling towards Kim,
740
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,120
if the attraction's gonna fade.
741
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,880
And, luckily, you know...
742
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,480
Which has been a strange
experience for me.
743
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,120
My sexuality's completely opened up,
you know, throughout this journey.
744
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,080
Really? Yeah, you know. So, it's
like, obviously, I'm in a
745
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,640
committed relationship with Kim, so
I can't really go and explore,
746
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,800
you know, the women. But I do feel
differently about
747
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,920
my own sexuality now.
748
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,800
What would you describe
yourself as now?
749
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,240
An accidental lesbian, tresbian.
750
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,600
Tresbian. Tresbian!
751
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,200
I don't know. I don't really see
myself in any boxes, really.
752
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,880
Right, just the same as...
Just happen to love Kim. Yeah.
753
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,000
Do you think here was
a key place for this to happen,
754
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,840
or do you think you could have
done it anywhere?
755
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,760
I'll tell you a funny thing
that happened once.
756
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,760
So I was in there
and I was scooping ice cream,
757
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:13,320
and I was like bent over the ice
cream freezer, scooping away.
758
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,720
And a woman came in with
her granddaughter and she said,
759
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,960
"Oh, do you want an ice cream?
We'll get the lady to get you one
760
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,560
"in a minute." And I was like,
"Oh, brilliant, lady."
761
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,920
And then I turned round
and she was like, "Sorry, man."
762
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,960
And then she went...
763
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,720
And then after that,
she goes, "I mean, lady. Oh!"
764
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,240
And she got herself really upset.
765
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:32,400
She was really upset!
766
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,880
And I'd forgotten all about it.
767
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,400
And then about a week later,
she came in with a card,
768
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,320
she was mortified that
she'd offended me.
769
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,880
And I was like,
"You haven't offended me.
770
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,960
"If you were doing something to be
cruel, that would be offensive,
771
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,120
"but you just didn't know
what to say."
772
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,560
Being in Hebden, I mean, on the
whole it's been so supportive,
773
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,640
we've been so well received,
you know.
774
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,800
It's just such an
extraordinary place.
775
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,440
How does the straight community...?
776
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,480
How does everyone work in
with each other?
777
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,320
It just is. I never
give it a second thought,
778
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,640
in any way, shape or form.
779
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,800
Nobody does, do they?
I don't think...
780
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:08,800
I think if you're...
781
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,200
I think, in a privileged position,
you don't realise
782
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,840
what a privileged position,
you know...
783
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,040
lesbian people have, and I'd never
considered that, actually.
784
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,720
That it is just as it is.
785
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,200
You know, and how comfortable
everybody feels. That's remarkable.
786
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,200
It's just an amazing,
kind of, success story.
787
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,040
In a way that the whole world
has managed to create this place,
788
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,840
this cafe, you two.
789
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,400
It's incredible, really. Yeah.
790
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,560
For some young gay people, the
painful experience of coming out
791
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,160
is still a million miles
from the welcome of Hebden Bridge.
792
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,640
But the town represents
the best of modern Britain.
793
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,720
A place where it's acceptable to
be any shade of gay or straight.
794
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,440
Where sexuality becomes just
one part of who you are.
795
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,240
Now, 50 years after
decriminalisation,
796
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:06,440
there's clearly no going back.
797
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,200
45 of the MPs in this place,
14% of the total, are out gay -
798
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,920
a new record.
799
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,200
And none of the major parties,
at least, would ever dream
800
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,320
of reversing
the direction of travel.
801
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,760
We are, of course, a minority.
We will always need to be vigilant.
802
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,640
But in 2017, there's no better place
in the world than Great Britain
803
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:33,480
to be gay.
804
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:04,000
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