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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,500 I was at Agenda 2000 2 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:08,900 and one of the people who was there, was Craig Mundie, 3 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:12,000 who is some kind of high mucky muck at Microsoft, 4 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:16,000 I think vice-president of consumer products or something like that, 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,800 and I hadn't actually met him. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,700 I bumped in to him in an elevator, in an elevator 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,800 and I looked at his badge and said, oh, I see you work for Microsoft, 8 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:30,800 and he looked back to me and said, oh, yeah and what do you do? 9 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:33,800 And I thought he seemed just a sort of a tad dismissive, 10 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:37,000 I mean, here's the archetypal, you know, guy in a suit 11 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:39,000 looking at a scruffy hacker, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,200 and so I gave him the thousand yard stare and said, 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,100 I'm your worst nightmare. 14 00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:02,100 For most its short, but colorful history, 15 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:04,100 the computer industry has been dominated 16 00:01:04,100 --> 00:01:06,000 by the Windows operating system, 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,000 but that could soon change, 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,900 as Windows faces a strong challenge from Linux. 19 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,000 Silicon Valley has long been the place 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,000 to develop new technology, 21 00:01:16,300 --> 00:01:19,800 start new companies and get really rich. 22 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:22,300 Now The Valley is the front line in a revolution 23 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:25,200 fighting for that most politically incorrect of ideas. 24 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:27,000 Individual freedom. 25 00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:29,300 Day and night, a loose confederation of 26 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:31,500 hackers and programmers zaps bits pieces of 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,300 computer code around the world as it builds the tools 28 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:36,500 to set computer users free 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,100 using open information and the free exchange of technology 30 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:40,500 to achieve its goals. 31 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,100 This revolution began in the 1980's with 32 00:01:43,100 --> 00:01:45,800 the Free Software Movement and GNU project, 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,500 and now is most commonly associated 34 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,100 with Linux and the Open Source Movement. 35 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:56,500 We do have one sector that is taking off today, 36 00:01:56,500 --> 00:01:58,600 it is the Linux-related sector, 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,700 and I thought this might be a good opportunity to say... 38 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,700 What is Linux? 39 00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:03,900 And I'll answer this question for you. 40 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Many of you probably already know, 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,500 but there are 12 million users out there, 42 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,100 a computer operating system developed by hundreds of 43 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:12,000 programmers collaborating on the internet, 44 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,900 a challenge to Microsoft Windows NT, 45 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,500 very popular for its speed 46 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:17,800 and so this is what the craze is about. 47 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:21,700 To kind of explain what Linux is you have to 48 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:23,700 explain what an operating system is, 49 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:26,200 and the thing about operating system is that you, I mean... 50 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,900 you're never ever supposed to see it 51 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:30,600 because... 52 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,800 nobody really uses an operating system, 53 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,000 people use programs on their computer 54 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 and the only mission in life 55 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,000 of an operating system is to help those programs run, 56 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,600 so an operating system never does anything on its own, 57 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,200 it's only waiting for the programs to 58 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,500 ask for certain resources or, 59 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,100 ask for a certain file on the disk 60 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:56,000 or ask for the programs to 61 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,800 connect them to the outside world, 62 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,600 and then the operating system comes, steps in and then 63 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,200 tries to make it easy for people to write programs. 64 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:10,500 Open source is a way for people to collaborate 65 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,200 on software without being encumbered by all of the problems of intellectual property, 66 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,700 having to negotiate contracts every time you buy a piece of software, 67 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,300 have a lot of lawyers involved. 68 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,500 In general, we just wanna get the software to work 69 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:28,300 and we want to be able to have 70 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:31,400 people contribute fixes to that, etc... 71 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:34,500 so we sort of sacrifice some of 72 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:36,400 the intellectual property rights 73 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:39,000 and just let the whole world use the software. 74 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,300 Before there could be Linux 75 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,700 there was Richard Stallman and the Free Software Movement. 76 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,700 They think of Richard Stallman as the... 77 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,500 great philosopher, right, 78 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:54,300 and think of me as the engineer. 79 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:58,900 Richard Stallman is the founding father of the Free Software Movement. 80 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:02,500 Through his efforts to build the GNU Operating System 81 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,400 he created the legal, philosophical and technological foundation 82 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,300 for the Free Software Movement. 83 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:09,900 Without these contributions, 84 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:12,400 it's unlikely that Linux and open source 85 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,500 would have evolved in to their current forms today. 86 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,200 I joined the MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab in 1971, 87 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:23,500 I joined a thriving community of hackers, 88 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,500 people who loved programming, 89 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:28,800 loved exploring what they could do with computers, 90 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,200 and they had developed a complete operating system, 91 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,700 entirely written there, 92 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,300 and I became one of the team, that 93 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:40,900 continued to improve the operating system, adding new capabilities. 94 00:04:40,900 --> 00:04:44,900 That was my job, and I loved it, we all loved it. That's why we were doing it. 95 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:48,600 And we called our system 96 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,100 the Incompatible Time Sharing System 97 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:53,100 which is an example of the 98 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:54,100 playful spirit 99 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:56,400 which defines a hacker. 100 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,700 Hackers are people who enjoy playful cleverness. 101 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:03,000 Well, it first started going wrong 102 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,500 as the outside world started pressuring us to have passwords. 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,800 We didn't have any passwords on our computer, 104 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000 and the reason was that the hackers 105 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,300 who'd originally designed the system 106 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:20,200 realized that passwords were a way the administrators could control all the users, 107 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:22,700 and they didn't want to build tools 108 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,400 you know, locks and keys for the administrators to control them, 109 00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:28,800 so they just didn't do it, they left that out, 110 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,000 and we had the philosophy that whoever sitting at the computer 111 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:35,500 should be able to do whatever he wants 112 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,000 and somebody else who was there yesterday shouldn't be controlling what you do today. 113 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,800 When they put passwords onto one of the machines at MIT 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,000 I and bunch of other hackers didn't like it, 115 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,000 I decided to try a subversive sort of hack. 116 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,900 I figured out how to decode the passwords, 117 00:05:54,900 --> 00:05:58,300 so by looking at the database of encoded passwords 118 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:01,800 I could figure out what each person would actually type to login, 119 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:04,700 and so I sent messages to people, saying... 120 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,100 Hello? I see that you've chosen the password mumble, 121 00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:10,500 whatever it was, how about if you do as I do, 122 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,000 just type Enter for your password, 123 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,000 it's much shorter, much easier to type. 124 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,000 And of course with this message I was 125 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,500 implicitly telling them the security was really just a joke. 126 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,800 Anyway, but in addition I was letting them in on this hack, 127 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:32,000 and eventually, a fifth of all the users on that computer joined me 128 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:35,500 in using just Enter as their passwords. 129 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,600 Where did the ideas that lead to what is now called Open Source world? 130 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:40,700 How did that begin? Who began that? 131 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,800 It actually began with the start of computers because at that time 132 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,900 software was just passed around between people 133 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,900 and I think it was only like in the lates 70's or early 80's 134 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:57,000 that people started really closing up their software, 135 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,200 and saying, no, you can never get a look at the source code, 136 00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:03,800 you can't change the software even if it's necessary 137 00:07:03,900 --> 00:07:06,800 for you to fix it, for your own application. 138 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:11,500 And you can actually blame some of that on Microsoft, 139 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:15,700 they are one of the real pioneers of the proprietary software model. 140 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,300 In the mid 1970's, a group of hackers 141 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,000 and computer hobbyist in Silicon Valley formed the Homebrew Computer Club. 142 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:27,000 In the club January 31, 1976 newsletter, 143 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,700 Bill Gates of the recently formed Microsoft, 144 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,500 wrote an open letter to the community 145 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:38,100 where he made a point by point argument for the relatively new concept of proprietary software 146 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:42,700 up to that point, the practice of computer users had been to freely pass around software 147 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,500 with not much thought given to its ownership, 148 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,600 known as An Open Letter to Hobbyists, Bill Gates writes, 149 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,300 to me the most critical thing in the hobby market right now 150 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,400 is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself, 151 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:57,600 without good software and an owner who understands programming, 152 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,800 a hobby computer is wasted. 153 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,500 Will quality software be written for the hobby market? 154 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:05,400 Gates goes on to write, the feedback we have gotten from 155 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,800 the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. 156 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,000 Two surprising things are apparent however. 157 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,000 One, most of these users never bought BASIC, and 158 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,000 two, the amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists 159 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,000 makes the time spent on of Altair BASIC worth less than 2 dollars an hour. 160 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,200 Why is this? 161 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,700 As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, 162 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:26,800 most of you steal your software. 163 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,700 Hardware must be paid for but software is something to share. 164 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:32,000 Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid? 165 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,400 Is this fair? 166 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,500 One thing you don't do by stealing software 167 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:38,000 is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had, 168 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,100 MITS doesn't make money selling software. 169 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:43,100 One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. 170 00:08:43,500 --> 00:08:45,800 Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? 171 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:48,800 What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, 172 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,400 finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute it for free? 173 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,300 The fact is, 174 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:56,900 no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. 175 00:08:56,900 --> 00:08:59,500 What about the guys who resell Altair BASIC? 176 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:01,800 Aren't they making money on hobby software? 177 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,300 Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. 178 00:09:05,300 --> 00:09:07,400 They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, 179 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,800 and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at. 180 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,700 I would appreciate letters from anyone who wants to pay up, 181 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:15,500 or has a suggestion or comment. 182 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:19,500 Signed Bill Gates, General partner, Micro-Soft. 183 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:23,600 In the late 70's and early 1980's, Richard Stallman was 184 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,900 doing Artificial Intelligence research and coding 185 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,500 at the MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab. 186 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:31,800 Richard had a number of negative experiences 187 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,800 during that period which soured him 188 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,900 on the whole idea of commercial software. 189 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:37,500 Such as? 190 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:41,500 Some company wanted to work on and wanted to fix was locked up, 191 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,200 and he couldn't get the company that owned on the code to let him fix it 192 00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:49,000 even though it would have been to their advantage to do so. 193 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,900 And that put me into a moral dilemma, you see? 194 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,600 Because to get one of the modern computers of the day, which was the early 80's, 195 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:00,900 you would have to get a proprietary operating system. 196 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,900 The developers of those systems didn't share with other people, 197 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,000 instead they tried to control the users, 198 00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:07,900 dominate the users, restrict them, 199 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,500 say, if to get the system, 200 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,000 you have to sign a promise you won't share with anybody else 201 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,900 and to me that was essentially a promise to be a bad person, 202 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:19,600 to betray the rest of the world, 203 00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:23,600 cut myself off from society from a co-operating community. 204 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,800 And I had already experienced what happened when other people did that to us, 205 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,300 when they refused to share with us, 206 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,000 because they had signed these contracts, 207 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:34,900 and it hurt the whole lab, 208 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,700 it kept us from doing useful things before, 209 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,100 so I just wasn't going to do that. 210 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,200 I thought, this is wrong, I am not going to live this way. 211 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,400 And from experiences like this he developed a profound hostility 212 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,100 to the idea of intellectual property and software. 213 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,800 He eventually acted this out by founding the Free Software Foundation. 214 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:59,400 So, I looked for another alternative and I realized... 215 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,000 I was an operating system developer. 216 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:04,800 If I were to develop another operating system, 217 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,600 and then as the author, encourage everyone to share it, 218 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:12,400 say, everyone, you come and get it, use this, form a new community, 219 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,700 not only could I gave myself a way to keep using computers without 220 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,000 betraying other people, but I'd give it to everybody else too. 221 00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:24,000 Everybody would have a way out of that moral dilemma 222 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:28,800 and so I realized this was what I had to do with my life. 223 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,200 I actually began the project in January of 1984, 224 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:36,000 that's when I resigned for my job at MIT 225 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:39,900 to start developing the GNU operating system. 226 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:44,200 Now I should explain the name GNU is a hack, 227 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200 because it's a recursive acronym, 228 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,600 it stands for GNU's Not Unix. 229 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,800 You see so the G in GNU stands for GNU. 230 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,900 And what the name means is 231 00:11:55,900 --> 00:12:00,400 I was developing a system that was like the Unix operating system, 232 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,800 but was not the Unix operating system. 233 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,300 This was a different system, 234 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:06,700 we would have to write it completely from scratch 235 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:08,600 because Unix was proprietary, 236 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:10,500 we were forbidden to share Unix, 237 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,200 we couldn't use Unix, it was useless for a community, 238 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:17,800 so we had to write a replacement for it. 239 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,600 Throughout the 1980s, 240 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:23,200 as Richard Stallman was building the GNU project, 241 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,800 computer scientists from the University of California at Berkeley 242 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,200 were developing their own free operating system, 243 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:32,000 known as Berkeley Unix, or BSD. 244 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:36,000 It was based upon the Unix kernel which had been licensed from AT&T. 245 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:40,800 However, due to legal problems with AT&T and fragmentation of the source code, 246 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,600 hackers and other non-institutional users were slow to adopt it. 247 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,800 Well, Unix consisted of a large number of separate programs 248 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,900 that communicated with each other, 249 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,900 so we just had to replace these programs one by one, 250 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,700 so what I started doing was writing a replacement for one program, 251 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,600 and then another, and then another, 252 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:01,400 and then people started joining me, 253 00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:05,100 because I published an announcement inviting other people to join me 254 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,800 to help write these programs. 255 00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:14,500 And by around 1991, we had replaced practically all of them. 256 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,300 What were some of the programs that you... 257 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,500 Well, we had to have a complete system, 258 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,200 you need to have a kernel, which is the program that 259 00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:26,100 allocates resources to all the other programs, 260 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,600 you need a compiler, which translates a program 261 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:35,000 from readable source code that programmers can understand into numbers, 262 00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,400 mysterious numbers that the computer can actually run. 263 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,000 You need other programs that go with the compiler to help do this job, 264 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,100 you need a debugger, 265 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,800 you need a text editor, 266 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:46,000 you need text formatters, 267 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,900 you need mailers, 268 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,300 you need lots and lots of things. 269 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,000 There are hundreds of programs in a Unix-like operating system. 270 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,000 I saw Stallman's announcement, 271 00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:58,400 actually I met him in February of 1987. 272 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:03,000 He came to give a five-day tutorial on Emacs at our company 273 00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,700 and during the day he would explain 274 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,900 new ways to think about Emacs 275 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000 and ways to extend it, enhance it, and to use the Emacs source code 276 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:12,900 for better or worse. 277 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,200 But in the evening, he was busily working on this compiler, 278 00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:18,600 and he had not yet released it to the public, 279 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,300 so he was being a little bit careful about 280 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,800 who got to see the source code, 281 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:28,300 but I was very eager, and when he first announced it in June, 282 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,000 I downloaded it immediately, 283 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,600 I played with it, 284 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:33,900 I got some pointers from him, 285 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:35,700 and when I sent the source code back to him, 286 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,000 he was very, 287 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,800 actually amazed that how quickly I was able to ramp up on his technology. 288 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,800 Whenever we worked on something at Stanford or in the university, 289 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:48,700 we would get, mostly at the time, 290 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,700 we were working off machines from Digital Equipment or Sun, mostly Sun. 291 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:54,400 Whenever we would get a Sun machine, 292 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,000 the first thing we would do is we would spend literally days 293 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:03,100 downloading GNU free software from the internet, 294 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,600 building it and installing it on that Sun machine. 295 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,300 The crucial thing about GNU is that it's free software, 296 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:13,200 and free software refers not to price, but to freedom, 297 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,700 so think of free speech, not free beer. 298 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,000 The freedoms that I am talking about 299 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,000 are the freedoms to make changes if you want to, 300 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:24,800 or hire somebody else to make changes for you 301 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,000 if you're using a software for your business, 302 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,800 to redistribute copies, to share with other people, 303 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,000 and to make improvements and publish them 304 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:37,000 so that other people can get the benefit of them too. 305 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,900 And those are the freedoms that distinguish free software from non-free software, 306 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,000 these are the freedoms that enable people to form a community. 307 00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:46,600 If you don't have all these freedoms, 308 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,400 you're being divided and dominated by somebody. 309 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,500 My first experience contributing to free software 310 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:57,500 came in late 1989, early 1990. 311 00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:00,700 I was working as a graduate student at Stanford University 312 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:03,100 on Computer Aided Design tools. 313 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,300 One of the pieces I needed was a tool 314 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,000 called a parser generator. 315 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:09,300 Well, the Free Software Foundation 316 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,800 under Richard Stallman created a great tool called bison. 317 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,900 I needed a tool that worked with C++. Bison worked with C. 318 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,600 I modified bison to create something called bison++ 319 00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:23,200 and it's a tremendous feeling of empowerment 320 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:26,400 be able to take a piece of software that was available 321 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:31,000 and create what you needed in a very short piece of time by modifying it, 322 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,600 I put it back on the internet 323 00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:35,400 and I was amazed at the number of people 324 00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:37,400 that picked it up and started using it. 325 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:41,500 In fact, I remember going to job interviews, 326 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,600 I, at various times, considered just going out getting a job, 327 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,600 and I'd gone to a job interview, 328 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,100 and I was talking to one of the people, 329 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,000 and I started asking them about what tools they used, 330 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:53,500 and they said, gee, we used bison++ 331 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,900 and I said, oh, I am the author of bison++. 332 00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:00,600 Free software generally does have a copyright, 333 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,300 it does have an owner 334 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,500 and it has a license. 335 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,400 It is not public domain. 336 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,100 If we put the software in the public domain, 337 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,400 somebody else would be able to make a little bit of changes 338 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,400 and turn that into a proprietary software package, 339 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,300 which means that the users would be running our software, 340 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,300 but they wouldn't have freedom to cooperate and share. 341 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,700 To prevent that, we use a technique called copyleft. 342 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,200 The idea of copyleft is that it's copyright flipped over, 343 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,700 and what we do is, we say, 344 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,700 this software is copyrighted 345 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,100 and we, the authors give you permission to redistribute copies, 346 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,700 we give you permission to change, 347 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,400 we give you permission to add to it, 348 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:43,200 but when you redistribute it, 349 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:47,000 it has to be under these terms, no more and no less, 350 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,300 so that whoever gets it from you 351 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,700 also gets the freedom to cooperate with other people, if he wants to, 352 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,300 and then, in this way everywhere the software goes, 353 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,000 the freedom goes too 354 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:02,400 and it becomes an inalienable right 355 00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:06,100 to cooperate with other people and form a community. 356 00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:09,600 And so, what is that? The license? What was that...? 357 00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:11,700 Well, copyleft being a general idea, 358 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,800 in order to use it, you have to have specific example. 359 00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:18,600 The specific example we use for most GNU software packages 360 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,600 is the GNU General Public License, 361 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,700 a particular document in legalese which accomplishes this job. 362 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,700 A lot of other people use that same license, for example, 363 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,200 Linus Torvalds uses that license for Linux as well. 364 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,700 Well, the license I use is the GNU General Public License, 365 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,700 that's the one Richard Stallman wrote, 366 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,700 and I think it is really astounding contribution, 367 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,800 it's one of the few software licenses that was written 368 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,500 from the standpoint of the community rather than 369 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,400 from the standpoint of protecting a company 370 00:18:54,500 --> 00:19:00,000 or as is the case with MIT and BSD license 371 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,900 performing the goals of a government grant program, 372 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,000 and the GPL is really unique in that. 373 00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,500 It's not just a license, it's a whole philosophy that, 374 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,600 I think, motivated the open source definition. 375 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:18,000 I don't hide that a lot of what I do came from Stallman. 376 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,400 A crucial step in the growth of GNU/Linux and the Free Software movement 377 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,100 was the creation of businesses based upon the software and philosophy. 378 00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:32,800 Grown zero for the beginning of the business phase 379 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:36,000 was the Electronics Research Lab at Stanford University, 380 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,600 known as ERL, the lab was the place for the first GNU 381 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,000 and Linux business founder inspiration. 382 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:44,100 So right here was where ERL was. 383 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,700 That would have been the entrance over there next to the... 384 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,100 electrical engineering McCullough building. 385 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,000 As you walk in, you come in, you walk down the hallway, down here. 386 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,100 My office would have been about here, 387 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,500 and then right across the hall, from that was Michael Tiemann's office. 388 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:06,200 Michael Tiemann took and started a company, Cygnus Software, 389 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:11,100 where the idea was to sell consulting and services around the GNU Free Software 390 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,500 and, well, Michael's done very well with Cygnus. 391 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:17,500 Well, I spend a lot of time working out... 392 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:19,500 how we were going to make money 393 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,500 and in the original GNU manifesto, 394 00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:24,500 which is the last chapter of the GNU Emacs manual, 395 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,500 Stallman proposed a number of different 396 00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,300 possible ways to make money. 397 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:30,300 From the beginning of the Free Software movement 398 00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:31,500 I had the idea that there's 399 00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,500 room in it for business to be done. 400 00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:36,200 One of the advantages of Free Software is that, there's 401 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,500 a free market for any kind of service or support. 402 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:41,500 So if you are using software in your business, 403 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,500 and you want good support, 404 00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,500 you have a choice of people to go to for it, 405 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:48,500 you have a choice of businesses that 406 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,500 are in the business of providing you with support. 407 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,500 So they are going to have to in general give you 408 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,500 good support or you go to somebody else. 409 00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:58,500 With proprietary software, 410 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,500 support is a monopoly, there is one company, 411 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:04,100 typically, that has the source code 412 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,000 and only they can give you support 413 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,800 so typically, you are at the mercy of a monopoly. 414 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,100 That's the case, for example with Microsoft, 415 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:15,200 so no wonder the support is so bad. 416 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,000 The benefits of Free Software were 417 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,700 tremendous but the cost of supporting it internally, 418 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:22,300 and made managers very very nervous and 419 00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:26,000 so the fundamental idea I had was if we can build a model 420 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,000 that could deliver two to four times the support 421 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,500 and hand holding capability 422 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:35,600 that an internal engineer could provide 423 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,600 and we could do it at 1/2 to 1/4 of the cost 424 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,800 that would meet the test of whether or not 425 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,400 people would actually buy. 426 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,900 And by about the Fall of that year, we had 427 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:46,800 all the things worked out about who 428 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,400 needed on the technical team, what 429 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,300 the terms the sale would be, what 430 00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,100 the key price point were, and we 431 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:56,100 actually received our incorporation in November of 1989. 432 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,300 One of the most difficult things in starting our company 433 00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:00,900 was actually finding a name for it. 434 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:03,500 I explained this to one of my friends 435 00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:04,900 we're having difficulty 436 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:07,400 and he returned an e-mail message 437 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,300 that basically just had a bunch of words with the name GNU in it. 438 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:16,100 And Cygnus was the one that looked least obnoxious and least obscene. 439 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,100 I can say very clearly that Cygnus 440 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,100 was the first business that specialized in Free Software. 441 00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,600 Cygnus supported Free Software, 442 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,600 filled a very essential niche because we had this great software, 443 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,600 you could get it for nothing but you couldn't get support, they made their money 444 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,700 by charging for support. 445 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:40,400 The GNU project started by building a toolkit, 446 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,300 basic development tools such as a C compiler, a debugger, a text-editor, 447 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,000 and other necessary apparatus. 448 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,500 And their intention was eventually to develop a kernel to sit underneath those 449 00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:56,100 and be the center of the operating system. 450 00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:59,900 By about 1990 they had successfully developed that toolkit, 451 00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,900 and it was in wide use on great many variants of Unix, 452 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,600 but there was still no free kernel. 453 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,600 The kernel happened to be one of the last things we started to do 454 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:12,900 and we had started it not long before 455 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:16,900 and that's when Linus Torvalds came along. 456 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:20,200 Lin-us or Line-us? What's the exact, do you prefer the pronunciation? 457 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,100 When I speak Swedish it's Lee-nus, 458 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,500 when I speak Finnish it's Leen-ous, 459 00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:27,300 when I speak English it's Line-us. 460 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:30,100 And I really don't care how people pronounce my name 461 00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,900 but Linux is always Linux. 462 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:37,300 He developed a kernel, and got it working faster than we got ours working, 463 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:40,400 and got it to work very nicely and solidly. 464 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,300 His kernel is called Linux. 465 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,000 The initial goal was my very personal goal 466 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,600 to be able to run a similar environment on my computer 467 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,800 that I had grown used to at the university computers 468 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,800 and I could not find anything that suited me for that. 469 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,900 So having been doing computers for all my life basically, 470 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:07,000 at that point I decided that I'll do my own. 471 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,500 Most of the inspiration early on came from SunOS 472 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:16,400 which was what I was using at the university at the time. 473 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,500 Which University? 474 00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:19,200 University of Helsinki in Finland. 475 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:24,600 From 1991 to about 1993 was really 476 00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:27,200 I guess the infancy period of Linux. 477 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,900 That was when it was still only alpha or beta quality, 478 00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:33,300 it was relatively unstable, 479 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:36,100 although, even then it was a good deal more stable 480 00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:40,100 than a lot of what are now called production operating systems. 481 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:44,100 Linus used the traditional tried-and-true method of writing one program 482 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000 that does the job, 483 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,300 and he got it to work 484 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,000 quickly in fact faster than I would have thought was possible. 485 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000 The term for it is monolithic, 486 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:03,900 which means that basically the OS itself is one entity, indivisible, 487 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,900 while in the microkernel, 488 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:10,400 the operating system kernel is actually 489 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:15,200 just a collection of servers that 490 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,000 do different things and then they have a common protocol 491 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,200 for doing communication between themselves. 492 00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:26,300 So why is that the GNU project that's had so much lead-time, that's been doing this... 493 00:25:26,300 --> 00:25:29,600 Why is it that he was able to kinda come in at the tail end so to speak? 494 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,300 Well we actually started the GNU Hurd not long before he started Linux 495 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,200 and it happened though we chose a design that's a very advanced design 496 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,800 in terms of the power gives you 497 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,400 but also turns out to be very hard to debug. 498 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:51,800 We decided to divide up the kernel which traditionally had been one program, 499 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,100 to divide it up into a lot of smaller programs 500 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:58,100 that would send messages to each other asynchronously to communicate. 501 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:04,000 The problem is that, that style of programming 502 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,300 has a great deal of potential for bugs, 503 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,200 which are often very hard to figure out because they depend on... 504 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:16,600 does this program send this message before or after this one sends that message... 505 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,800 and the result was, it took us years to get the thing to work. 506 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,200 What is Linux's relationship to the GNU project? 507 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,600 Well there's relationships to GNU on kind of multiple levels. 508 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:38,100 One is just the philosophical level of thinking that 509 00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:41,200 making your source open is a good idea. 510 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,800 When Linus developed the kernel he wasn't doing it for the GNU project. 511 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,300 He did it independently 512 00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:50,700 and he released it independently and we didn't know about it. 513 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,000 But some of the people who did know about it 514 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,500 decided to look for what else they could find 515 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,400 to put together with that kernel to make a whole system. 516 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:04,000 They looked around, and lo and behold everything they needed was already available. 517 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,100 What good fortune, they thought, 518 00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:08,400 but actually there was no chance about it 519 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,400 they had found all the pieces of the GNU system which was missing just the kernel, 520 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,100 so when they put all that together 521 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:19,100 really they were fitting Linux into the gap in the GNU system, 522 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:20,900 but they didn't know that. 523 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:25,300 There's a lot of these programs 524 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,100 done by the Free Software Foundation, 525 00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:31,300 and done by other people like Linux. 526 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:35,300 And there's a symbiosis between Linux and the programs 527 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,200 that the programs run on Linux and at the same time 528 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,600 and they take the advantage of Linux as a platform, 529 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,200 while Linux takes the advantage of the programs 530 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,200 by just being able to use them. 531 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,800 What programs? 532 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,600 The main one is actually the GNU C Compiler 533 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,800 which, without a C compiler it would not have been possible 534 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:04,000 to make Linux or most of the open progress available. 535 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,200 Linux uses the GPL, 536 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,900 and I agree with a kind of philosophy behind the GPL. 537 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,700 That said the GPL itself is not a very pretty document 538 00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:22,300 which is probably just because no lawyerese can ever be very pretty. 539 00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:32,300 I'd been playing around with Linux for actually, 540 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:35,800 late '92 or early '93, for about a year, 541 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,400 before I decided that it was to the point where actually had everything that I needed 542 00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:42,800 to really replace a Sun Workstation. 543 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,800 And I was looking for a way to have a Unix workstation at home 544 00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:50,900 at the time we used Sun Sparc Stations in the office at Stanford. 545 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,900 Those machines cost us about 7,000 dollars. 546 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:57,400 Now I desperately wanted a Unix machine at home. 547 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,100 There's always a this thought you get as a graduate student, 548 00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:01,400 gee, if I could work at home, 549 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,300 then I would be so much more productive, 550 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,400 I would graduate sooner because I would finish my thesis sooner. 551 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,500 Well, well, is it true? Well, you can judge. 552 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:14,300 You know, most people end up spending a lot of their time 553 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:15,800 becoming more productive so that 554 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000 they ever actually worked on their thesis they'd finish it in a day. 555 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,700 It takes a while sometimes 556 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:23,000 so I decided that I wanted a Unix machine at home 557 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,000 and I went out there I was able to use Linux together with the PC 558 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,000 for about 2,000 dollars I put together a system 559 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,900 that was one and a half to two times faster 560 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,600 than that 7,000 dollars Sun Sparc Station. 561 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,300 It was absolutely amazing. 562 00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:41,300 I had one and a half to two times the speed, 563 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:44,000 at a third to fourth the price. 564 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,300 Light bulbs went off. 565 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:47,500 I knew there was an opportunity here. 566 00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:51,500 This was the chance to really do something better than what Sun has done 567 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,200 around open source and Linux. 568 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,800 I called it Linux originally as working name 569 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,300 and that was just because Linus 570 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:02,500 and the X has to be there. 571 00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,600 It's Unix. It's like a law. 572 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:08,500 And what happened was that... 573 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,300 I initially thought that I can't call it Linux publicly, 574 00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:14,600 because it is just too egotistical. 575 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,900 And that was before I had a big ego, right. 576 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,200 They thought they were taking a whole bunch of components putting them around Linux 577 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,900 so they ended up calling the whole thing a Linux System 578 00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:27,600 and somehow that term caught on. 579 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,100 And the result is 580 00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:33,100 there are now ten million people using 581 00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,600 this variant of the GNU system... 582 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,900 the GNU/Linux operating system 583 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,000 and most of them don't know it. 584 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:43,300 Some people advocate it be described as GNU/Linux. 585 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:46,800 I mean what's your thought on that? I would say, justify or... 586 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,100 Well, I think it's justified but it is justified if you actually make GNU distribution of Linux. 587 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:59,600 The same way that I think that Red Hat Linux is fine or SUSE Linux, or Debian Linux 588 00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:03,500 because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux 589 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:05,300 you get to name the thing. 590 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,400 But calling Linux in general GNU Linux, I think, is just ridiculous. 591 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:13,100 I got involved in Fall '93 592 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,600 because I was sent a copy of the first CD-ROM commercial Linux distribution, 593 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,000 which was called Yggdrasi produced by Adam Richter. 594 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,100 And I got a copy because... 595 00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:29,000 I had been myself writing Free Software for a long time since the early 80's. 596 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,600 I was actually one of the early GNU contributors myself. 597 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,300 And I was absolutely astonished, 598 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:35,800 I was completely astonished, 599 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,800 because I've been a software engineer for nearly 15 years at that point 600 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:42,700 and according to all the rules I knew... 601 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:46,400 about controlling complexity, keeping a project group small, 602 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,200 having closely managed objectives, 603 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,500 Linux should have been a disaster, and it wasn't. 604 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:53,600 Instead, it was something wonderful, 605 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,900 and I was determined to figure out how they were getting away with that. 606 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,400 In order for Linux to grow beyond the world of the computer programmer 607 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,400 it needed a use, an application that made it a must-have technology. 608 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:08,400 That threshold was crossed 609 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,200 with the development of a program that made complex websites possible. 610 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,100 That program is the Apache web server. 611 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,100 The killer app of Linux was undoubtedly the Apache web server. 612 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,600 If you look at the history of Linux, 613 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,100 the adoption curve of Linux and the adoption curve of the internet 614 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:27,600 exactly track each other. 615 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,600 1993, which was when the Apache web server project really got started, 616 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,200 was also the beginnings of the popular ISP explosion 617 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,000 when the internet first became a mass market commodity 618 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,400 and the idea of web-based electronic commerce 619 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800 and mass communication became real. 620 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,600 I think it was one of the first applications that caused people to go, 621 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,500 well, if I install Linux, 622 00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:53,500 I get some tangible benefit from doing so, right. 623 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,300 I mean, clearly there were a lot of interesting applications on Linux 624 00:32:57,300 --> 00:32:59,200 at the time, this being maybe two or three years ago, 625 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,100 when the root thing really started to take off 626 00:33:01,100 --> 00:33:03,800 but there wasn't a driving, you know, 627 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,100 you could almost say business case 628 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:08,000 for someone to use Linux versus using NT 629 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,300 until, I think, Apache and a lot of the things that plugged into Apache 630 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:12,800 enhanced Apache. 631 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,800 I mean, when you want to go out and build a server farm, 632 00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:18,700 it was much more cost effective, cost effective... 633 00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:23,600 real dollar returns to build it on Linux and Apache than was to build it on IIS and NT, 634 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000 even if it meant that you have to spend a little bit of money 635 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,600 to train your staff to learn how to use that or 636 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,300 to find people who were knowledgeable. 637 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:30,400 But the good news was that 638 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,100 that knowledge wasn't very expensive 639 00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:33,800 because there were all those college students out there 640 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,200 who'd been using Linux for a long time and were very familiar with it. 641 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,400 If you look at the trend curves in web servers, 642 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,100 Apache has steadily been gaining a market share ever since 643 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,600 it's up to something like 66% now. 644 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,800 It's steadily clobbered all of the closed source competition 645 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,200 and that's because it's more reliable, it's more flexible, it's more extensible. 646 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,500 It does what webmasters actually need 647 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,500 and the combination of Apache and Linux 648 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,800 found its way into a great many commercial shops. 649 00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:08,300 Essentially, Apache became the application that motivated internet service providers 650 00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:12,300 and e-commerce companies to choose Linux over Microsoft's Windows. 651 00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,600 It would probably run best on Linux and on FreeBSD 652 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,200 and the reason is the communities around those operating systems 653 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,600 are also the communities that contribute the most back to Apache, right. 654 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,600 And there were also the operating systems that internet service providers 655 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,400 started using very heavily as well 656 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,900 and internet service providers really liked Apache 657 00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:35,300 because it allowed them to do 658 00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:38,600 a lot of different things that some of the commercial web servers didn't 659 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,600 such as the ability to host more than one web site on a single box, which clearly 660 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:45,300 if you are an ISP and you would have 40,000 users 661 00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:46,500 and they all want their web site, 662 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:48,100 is gonna be pretty important to you. 663 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,700 One of the key factors in the growth of Linux was 664 00:34:51,700 --> 00:34:54,500 the creation of companies that specialized in the distribution 665 00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:56,600 and support of the operating system itself. 666 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,200 Among these companies, Red Hat Software is the best known. 667 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,600 Red Hat started as a product of Marc Ewing 668 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,200 while he was working at IBM. 669 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,200 He wanted a little better Linux distribution. 670 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,600 He started playing around, 671 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,600 found out he spent more time maintaining his Linux distribution 672 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,800 than he did working on his new project. 673 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,500 So he sort of started the distribution himself. 674 00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:21,100 He met up with Bob Young, 675 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,000 who at the time was running company called ACC Bookstore 676 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,400 which was a mail-order PC Unix catalog. 677 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,300 And Bob kind of knew he wanted something, 678 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:31,400 you know, more his own to market, 679 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,800 rather than reselling other people's products, 680 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,900 and he was fairly good at marketing, and... 681 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:38,300 Mark knew he needed some marketing help 682 00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:41,300 because he was very good at the technical parts, so they kinda got together. 683 00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:45,600 I started working with Red Hat in May of 1995, basically right out of NC State, 684 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,600 along with Eric Troan who, me and him combined make up employees #4 and #5. 685 00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:55,500 We actually reported to work in an apartment that Mark Ewing used to live in. 686 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,700 We took it over as kind of the development part of Red Hat software 687 00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:04,600 and stayed that way till about November of 1995 when... 688 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,400 a toilet we had in the apartment kind of exploded, 689 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,800 flooded our downstairs neighbor 690 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,900 and she got little upset and... 691 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:14,100 the apartment folks found out we were running a business there 692 00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:16,200 instead of actually living there the same time. 693 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,600 So they decided to throw us out. 694 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,800 So at that point, we had about a week to go find 695 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,100 our first office, which we did 696 00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:24,100 and get ourselves moved in a hurry. 697 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,600 We started going in again '95 or so to the venture capital firms, 698 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,500 asking, saying, there's something happening here. 699 00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:44,600 There's a great business opportunity, 700 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,600 to build the next Sun for open source. 701 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,000 Well, the venture capitalists looked at this and said, 702 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,500 gee, you are selling systems, 703 00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:56,600 the software is free, this is kind of scary. 704 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,100 We're not sure that we want to put money in and... 705 00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:02,500 by the way, we funded other systems companies 706 00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,400 and it hasn't really panned out, we are scared. 707 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,700 I came to the US about 3 years ago, 708 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:13,000 and the reason really was that I'd been spending 709 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,300 like 6 or 7 years at Helsinki University, 710 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:21,600 and decided it was time to see the real world and not just university life. 711 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,600 Especially this area had a lot of the most interesting work being done. 712 00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:29,900 So I just decided that... 713 00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,900 let's try to move half way across the world, 714 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,600 and give this a try, 715 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,600 and it's turned out pretty well. 716 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,500 You see this as temporary or long term? 717 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,600 Well, we saw it as temporary at first. 718 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,600 And I think it's certainly looking like it's turning into long term. 719 00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:51,400 Our youngest daughter is both US and Finnish citizen, 720 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,900 because she was born here 721 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:57,500 and the older one is speaking both Swedish and English, so... 722 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:25,700 The next major event was one that I had a direct hand in. 723 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,600 I wrote a paper, called The Cathedral and The Bazaar, 724 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,300 which was my observations, my anthropological analysis 725 00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:34,600 of what it was that made the open source world work. 726 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,900 We didn't call it that then. We were still using the term Free Software primarily. 727 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:42,600 So it was my observation of what made the Free Software world work 728 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,900 and why we were able to produce extremely high quality software 729 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,400 in spite of constantly violating all of the standard rules of software engineering. 730 00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:55,000 In that paper, I was setting up a contrast 731 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,200 between two different styles of development, 732 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,900 two opposed styles of development. 733 00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:04,500 One, which is the conventional closed development style, 734 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,000 which I called the Cathedral style. 735 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,300 In that one, you have tight specification of objectives, 736 00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:15,600 small project groups which are run in a fairly hierarchical authoritarian manner, 737 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,300 and you have long release intervals. 738 00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:23,000 On the other hand, what I identified is happening in the Linux world 739 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,600 was a much more peer to peer decentralized, market or bazaar-like style, 740 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,600 which has a very short release intervals 741 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,600 and constant solicitation of feedback from people who are formally outside of the project. 742 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,600 A very intense peer review process. 743 00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,600 And the startling thing was that the more I looked at this, 744 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,600 the more it seemed that trading away all the supposed advantages 745 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,500 of conventional closed development, 746 00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:53,500 for that one single advantage of massive independent peer review 747 00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:57,500 actually seemed to win, actually seemed to get you good results. 748 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,900 The reason Netscape is important is 749 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:07,800 that they were the first large company to participate in open source. 750 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,600 We had Cygnus providing support, 751 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,200 but we didn't really have much business. 752 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,000 And Netscape went open source essentially as a way to fight Microsoft, 753 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,800 which was giving away Internet Explorer, 754 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,800 but not letting anyone else have the source code, not letting companies collaborate. 755 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,500 Working as part of the sales force, I got a bit of, 756 00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,900 I got a good idea of why people bought our software 757 00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,900 and what it took to make our software successful in the marketplace against competitive products. 758 00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:35,600 However, the problem was, 759 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,200 we were seeing, as that, as time went on, 760 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,600 our software was... 761 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,400 being competed against by other people's software, particularly Microsoft's, 762 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,200 and as time went on, the price of our software had to drop 763 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,300 because other people were giving their software away 764 00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,300 at no charge or at little charge. 765 00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:57,500 Now the real problem was that they feared 766 00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:01,000 Microsoft would achieve a monopoly lock on the browser market 767 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,800 and they would then use that monopoly lock to 768 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,400 pervert actually, 769 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,400 the HTTP and HTML standards that the web depends on 770 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,400 and once they had turned those standards in to lock in devices, 771 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,400 they could then use that control to drive Netscape out of the server market, 772 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,100 which was where it was making its real money. 773 00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:24,000 My concern was that as time went on, 774 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:27,800 Netscape's business would be threatened, 775 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,600 by the fact that we didn't have enough people to do what we needed to do as a company 776 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,500 in order to keep our software viable in the marketplace. 777 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,800 The Netscape release happened in early 1998 778 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,800 and I was told later, I had no idea at the time, 779 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,100 that it came about as a direct result of 780 00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:49,900 the right people having read The Cathedral and The Bazaar. 781 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,100 The Cathedral and The Bazaar, the paper by Eric Raymond, 782 00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:59,700 was a significant influence on Netscape's decision to release source code. 783 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,600 It came as a complete shock to me. 784 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,800 I wasn't really ready for the thought 785 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,000 that I was changing the world even by accident. 786 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:11,700 However he was not by any means the only influence on that decision 787 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,200 and not necessarily the most important one, 788 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,900 when all is said and done. 789 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,100 As I said, Netscape, 790 00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:22,100 Netscape had already been talking about releasing source code for quite some time before 791 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,700 anyone ever heard of Eric's paper. 792 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:27,100 Linux Congress in early 1997, 793 00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:30,100 which was the first place that I gave that paper. 794 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,400 And one of the people who heard it was Tim O'Reilly of O'Reilly and Associates. 795 00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:37,800 And he thought it was pretty intriguing 796 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,800 and he asked me to give it at his first PERL conference, which was... 797 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,400 later that year, in Fall of 97. 798 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:47,000 And apparently what happened, I was told later, 799 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,500 although I had no idea that this was happening at the time, 800 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:56,000 is that some people from Netscape actually heard the paper at the PERL conference 801 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,000 and took those ideas back to Netscape and they kind of lit a fire there. 802 00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:04,100 The role of my paper was essentially to make the internal case at Netscape... 803 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,200 to make the business case for why Netscape should release its source code. 804 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,000 The paper was called Netscape Source Code as Netscape Product. 805 00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:16,700 A strange title, essentially what the title meant was that, 806 00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:18,500 in my opinion we needed to 807 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,400 think of source code not just as something that was used in creating our products, 808 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,600 but as something that was a product in its own right. 809 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,700 Something that customers might use, other people might use. 810 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,000 I then looked at what the business models might be 811 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,900 if we released source code for our products. 812 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:35,600 How would we license them? 813 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,600 How do we sell products in this environment? 814 00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:44,100 Then I looked at the competition, particularly Microsoft. 815 00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:46,700 What would they be likely to do if we released source code? 816 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:49,300 Was there some way they could use our source code against us? 817 00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:53,300 I used Eric's paper as an example of how distributed development could work, 818 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:57,900 how a company could develop software not just using their own people, 819 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:00,700 but also working with people on the internet. 820 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,400 And that's why I included a reference to Eric's paper in my paper. 821 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:07,200 Once my paper was circulated, 822 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,600 the people who read my paper would naturally enough 823 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,600 find a reference to Eric's paper and read that as well. 824 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,200 And who was involved in making that happen at Netscape? 825 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,600 Primarily the person who made the actual decision was Jim Barksdale. 826 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,500 And this turned out to be important later, 827 00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,300 that our big win, the big score 828 00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:28,900 that gave us mainstream visibility and credibility with investors 829 00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:32,900 came not because of bottom up evangelism from a bunch of engineers, 830 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,100 but because one strategist at the top 831 00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:38,400 saw the potential power of this method and 832 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,300 then essentially imposed that vision on everyone underneath him. 833 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,600 When I completed the paper, I first gave a copy to Mark Andreessen, 834 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,600 who was co-founder of Netscape and was at the time one of, 835 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,400 on the senior management team at Netscape. 836 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,400 Mark then gave a copy of the paper to several other people within Netscape management, 837 00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,600 including Jim Barksdale. 838 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,700 I'm not sure exactly when Jim and the other senior managers 839 00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:02,800 made the actual decision. 840 00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:05,800 I believe it was in early January sometime. 841 00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:10,400 Netscape actually announced that it was gonna release the source code on January 22nd, 842 00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:14,400 the same time it was going to give Communicator away for free. 843 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,500 When Netscape decided to release the source code, 844 00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:19,900 people sort of got a wake up notice and said 845 00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:23,400 hey, maybe there is something to this idea of releasing source code 846 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,900 and doing development with people outside your company. 847 00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:32,700 So Netscape's decision brought a lot of public attention to the idea of Free Software, 848 00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:35,000 what became known as Open Source, 849 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,500 and brought a lot of attention to the Linux operating system, 850 00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:41,500 which was one of the most prominent examples of open source software at that time. 851 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,300 This is our first office, Mountain View, California. 852 00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:52,700 We moved here in early 1995. 853 00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:54,600 This is 4,000 square feet. 854 00:45:54,600 --> 00:46:01,200 It was an incredible leap of faith for us to move out and take the company to our own office. 855 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,200 Now what's really important about this place 856 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,800 is that this is the office where the term Open Source was invented. 857 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,500 If you walk in to an executive's office and say Free Software... 858 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,600 OK, if you're lucky, the response you'll get is something like, 859 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:23,100 Free Software must be cheap, shoddy, worthless. 860 00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:27,100 And if you're not lucky, it has associations with... 861 00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:32,500 with the Free Software Foundation's wholesale attack on intellectual property rights, 862 00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:35,500 which regardless of what you think about the ethics of that, 863 00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:39,500 it's lousy marketing, it's not something that businesses want to hear. 864 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,400 So Eric Raymond knew there was a problem. 865 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,600 We'd been calling this Free Software, 866 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,600 but people took the term free and associated with free of charge, 867 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,700 they thought they couldn't make money or couldn't sell, 868 00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:53,600 which is exactly the wrong concept. 869 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:59,200 We wanted to get across the idea the software was open and that the source code was available. 870 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,500 Very important pieces. 871 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,200 We had this meeting at the VA offices in Mountain View, where Eric, 872 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:11,700 myself, and Christine Peterson from Foresight Institute joined us as well as some other people. 873 00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:14,600 Christine Peterson was there by phone... 874 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:20,100 Jon "Mad dog" Hall was also there by phone... 875 00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:24,800 and then Todd Anderson, who later worked for SUSE for a while, was there. 876 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,800 Sam Ockman, who now runs Penguin Computing, was there. 877 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,200 He was an employee of VA at the time. 878 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,100 Well, we came up with the concept of Open Source, 879 00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:37,400 we called Linus in fact and asked Linus if he liked it. 880 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,600 He was interested, he liked it. 881 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,100 Eventually we came up with something that replaced Free Software. 882 00:47:43,100 --> 00:47:44,700 That was the beginning of open source. 883 00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:46,800 How did you chose the words open source? 884 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,600 You know, I think Christine Peterson was the person who really came up with the idea. 885 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:58,800 We wanted, again, the idea that the source code was out there and it was open. 886 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,200 There weren't many choices. 887 00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:06,300 Well, since the fist three recipients have spoken for the Open Source movement, 888 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:10,800 I think I should speak about the Free Software movement. 889 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,300 The Open Source movement focuses on practical advantages 890 00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:17,000 that you can get by having a community of users 891 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,000 who can cooperate on interchanging and improving software. 892 00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:24,900 I agree completely with the points they make about that. 893 00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:29,400 The reason why my views are different, while I am in the Free Software movement 894 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,500 rather than the Open Source movement, 895 00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:34,500 is that I believe there's something more important at stake. 896 00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:39,500 That freedom to cooperate with other people, freedom to have a community... 897 00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:41,700 is important for our quality of life. 898 00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:45,700 It's important for having a good society that we can live in. 899 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,800 And that is in my view, even more important than having powerful and reliable software. 900 00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:56,300 But I think some of the people in the Free Software camp... 901 00:48:57,100 --> 00:49:00,500 are a little scared by the commercialization. 902 00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:06,500 And you know, of course a rebel is put off by success. 903 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,400 I think that commercialization is very important. 904 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,200 We want to mainstream this software, 905 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,400 and I work with Richard Stallman who's the gray haired man of Free Software, 906 00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,900 on a regular basis, and I don't feel 907 00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:26,400 I have any philosophical differences, 908 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,500 me as author of The Open Source Definition and 909 00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:34,800 he as originator of Free Software as an organized thing. 910 00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:39,300 Except for one thing, Richard thinks that all software should be free, 911 00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:44,000 and I think that free software and non-free software should coexist. 912 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,700 That's the only difference we have. 913 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:49,300 We decided early on that what we needed, 914 00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:54,300 a definition, we needed a kind of meta-license to define the term open source. 915 00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:58,100 And what we came up with is a document called The Open Source Definition. 916 00:49:58,100 --> 00:50:03,300 It's derived from the Debian Free Software guidelines that were originally written by Bruce Parens. 917 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,100 I'd written the original draft of that, 918 00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:10,600 discussed it for a month with the Debian developers, 919 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,300 Debian is a Linux distribution, 920 00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:16,500 and made it their project policy. 921 00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:19,400 And Eric and I decided to relabel 922 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,300 what we'd written for Debian 923 00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:23,600 as The Open Source Definition 924 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,900 and to say open source is software 925 00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:28,800 that gives you a list of nine rights 926 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,100 which is in The Open Source Definition. 927 00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:34,900 The first right is free redistribution. 928 00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:37,300 This doesn't mean free as in no price. 929 00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:39,500 It means liberty, 930 00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:43,100 you have to be free to redistribute 931 00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:44,600 your software to someone else 932 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,800 and actually no price is a side effect. 933 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,100 You can charge for that redistribution or not. 934 00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,300 It has to come with source code 935 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,000 so that someone can maintain a program. 936 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,700 If they go from a PC to a Mac for example, 937 00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:02,100 they can change the software. 938 00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:04,500 Derived works have to be possible. 939 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:07,200 If someone has to improve your program, 940 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,500 they should be able to distribute the result. 941 00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:16,000 There is a provision about integrity 942 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,300 of the author's source code 943 00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:22,400 which says that the author can sort of maintain their honor 944 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,200 and if you make a change 945 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,900 you might have to change the name of the program 946 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:29,600 or mark out your change very clearly 947 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,000 so that your change doesn't reflect on the author. 948 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,800 There is no discrimination against people or groups. 949 00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:38,700 The example I usually use is 950 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,900 you can't stop an abortion clinic 951 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:45,100 or an anti-abortion activist from using the software. 952 00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:48,700 There is no discrimination against fields of endeavor 953 00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:51,900 and that means the software has to be usable 954 00:51:52,100 --> 00:51:55,400 in a business as well as in a school. 955 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,900 The license has to be distributable. 956 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,000 In other words, 957 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,400 I have to be able to give that license to someone 958 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,800 and that license then should work 959 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,500 if that someone gives it to yet a third person. 960 00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:13,300 The license can't be specific to a product. 961 00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:14,500 In other words, 962 00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:19,700 if I distribute my software on a Red Hat system, 963 00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:21,300 the license can't say 964 00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:25,000 you can't distribute this on a SUSE or Debian system. 965 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,500 The license can't contaminate other software. 966 00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:34,900 So if I distribute this on a CD with another program, 967 00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:38,100 it can't say that other program must be free, 968 00:52:38,100 --> 00:52:41,000 otherwise you can't distribute my software. 969 00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,700 And then the only other part of 970 00:52:43,700 --> 00:52:44,900 The Open Source Definition 971 00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:47,700 is a list of licenses that were accepted 972 00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:51,600 and the ones that we started with were the GPL 973 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,700 which was actually the example for a lot of 974 00:52:54,700 --> 00:52:58,200 what's in The Open Source Definition in the BSD license 975 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,200 because software for BSD system pre-existed Linux. 976 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,800 I think the next moment that I thought was really pivotal 977 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,000 was when the database vendors flipped over 978 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,000 which happened about three months sooner 979 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,100 than I expected to 980 00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:19,500 and actually happened in late July early August. 981 00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:23,500 Commitments to do tier one ports from Oracle and 982 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,600 Sybase and the other key database vendors. 983 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:27,900 And why was that critical? 984 00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:30,000 Because we knew that in order for 985 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,300 the open source story to be credible 986 00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:35,000 and especially in order for the Linux story to be credible, 987 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,000 we'd have to get commitments from independent software vendors 988 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,500 to do ports of their applications to these platforms. 989 00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,100 And I was actually kind of worried. 990 00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:46,500 I thought that we were in a window of vulnerability 991 00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:49,900 between the time that we announced the open source campaign 992 00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:51,700 and the database vendors flipped over. 993 00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:54,300 That was the point at which hostile action 994 00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:58,000 by Microsoft or other close-source software companies, 995 00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,300 that was the point in which 996 00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:01,800 a serious marketing blitz might have sunk us. 997 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,800 But once the big database vendors flipped over, 998 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,300 that opened the way for other ISVs 999 00:54:08,300 --> 00:54:10,200 that started the snow ball effect going. 1000 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,300 Every six months or so 1001 00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:13,900 I would come back to the venture capitalists. 1002 00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:15,600 I would show them the new numbers, 1003 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,700 showing more and more people adopting Linux 1004 00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:19,500 and new people porting, new users 1005 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:21,100 and I'd show them our customer list. 1006 00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:24,400 And our customer list was getting much more impressive. 1007 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,000 It was people like Cisco that were beginning to appear, 1008 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,500 people like, you know, those dot-com companies 1009 00:54:29,500 --> 00:54:31,900 were starting to show up on our customer list 1010 00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:34,500 and eventually the venture capitalists, 1011 00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:36,500 you know, they kept looking at it, 1012 00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:38,300 they kept saying, oh, we can't quite do it. 1013 00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:41,500 Finally, Linus appeared on the cover of Fortune. 1014 00:54:41,500 --> 00:54:43,800 There was something happening with open source. 1015 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,800 Well, at that point, the venture capitalists couldn't ignore it. 1016 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,100 They just got sick of hearing about Linux everywhere 1017 00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:53,000 and they got tired of me, just, you know, 1018 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,400 showing it to them every, at that point it was almost every week. 1019 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,000 So they decided it was time to invest, 1020 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,800 that there was something happening. 1021 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,300 I announced open source to the world on the internet. 1022 00:55:04,300 --> 00:55:07,700 I did a lot of the early administrative work of 1023 00:55:07,700 --> 00:55:11,200 starting the Open Source Initiative 1024 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,000 and I think six months later 1025 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,500 I was reading the words open source 1026 00:55:15,500 --> 00:55:18,100 in the news all the time 1027 00:55:18,100 --> 00:55:20,400 and was totally astounded. 1028 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,600 And a year later, I believe 1029 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,600 Microsoft was talking about releasing some source code 1030 00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:28,900 and someone in the press asked Steve Ballmer 1031 00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:31,500 if they were going to open source their code 1032 00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:33,000 and Steve Ballmer said, 1033 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,000 well, open source means more than just releasing the source code. 1034 00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:39,900 And I realized that he had read my document 1035 00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:42,700 and understood it and was now telling the press about this. 1036 00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:46,100 Now if you are like just a guy on the net 1037 00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:48,400 who's not doing this for a job at all 1038 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,200 and you sort of write a manifesto 1039 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,500 and it spreads out through the world 1040 00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:53,500 and a year later 1041 00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:56,600 the vice president of Microsoft is talking about that... 1042 00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,900 you'd think you were on drugs, wouldn't you? 1043 00:55:59,900 --> 00:56:01,600 But that's what really happened. 1044 00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:11,500 The Local Users Groups tend to be more an issue of 1045 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,500 building a social network, 1046 00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:22,300 especially getting people familiarized with the issues, 1047 00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:28,100 also just acting as a kind of supporting network 1048 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:33,400 for people who, who do not, for example, have the ability 1049 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,600 to pay for commercial support network. 1050 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,200 So one thing they're doing in this area, 1051 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,200 for example, is they're making these, 1052 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,200 I think it's once a month, 1053 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,900 they're having install fests, which means that 1054 00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:51,400 people who have problems getting Linux installed on their machines 1055 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,100 or have some issue, I mean, 1056 00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:54,500 maybe they've installed Linux 1057 00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:57,100 but want to set up the network in a specific way 1058 00:56:57,100 --> 00:56:59,200 can actually bring in their machines 1059 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,300 to this users group meeting 1060 00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:03,900 and there's a lot of people there willing to help 1061 00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:07,900 who may have seen the same problem before. 1062 00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:18,600 Well, actually things aren't so well. 1063 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,800 I tried it earlier myself. I had problems. 1064 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,200 And so I came to this install fest where 1065 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:25,900 all the gurus abound. 1066 00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:29,800 Hopefully I'll have better luck getting it in. 1067 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,600 Instead of having, sending e-mails or 1068 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,500 writing to news groups on the internet 1069 00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:37,000 and waiting several days for the answers sometimes, 1070 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,000 it's easy to come here and find other people 1071 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,200 who might know about your problem 1072 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,100 and may be able to help you. 1073 00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:44,200 And hopefully within a few hours 1074 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,400 you have your machine installed. 1075 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,400 Originally I wanted to install it on my larger laptop 1076 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,300 and so I just did a search on the net 1077 00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:56,300 and found where there were resources to get help. 1078 00:57:56,900 --> 00:57:58,600 And I'm here today 1079 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,300 cause I'm trying to put Linux on this little guy right here. 1080 00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:04,600 Just a Toshiba Libretto. 1081 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,200 It's not the easiest thing in the world to do 1082 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,800 because it's a weird piece of hardware, so... 1083 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,800 Any chairs around here? 1084 00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:25,500 I think that Department of Justice case 1085 00:58:25,500 --> 00:58:27,500 has made people aware of the fact that 1086 00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:30,500 you should at least look for alternatives to Microsoft. 1087 00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:34,500 And maybe Microsoft isn't the American dream after all, 1088 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,500 and that kind of shifting perception 1089 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,600 you can very clearly see 1090 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,600 that people just took Microsoft for granted 1091 00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:46,500 and maybe they're still buying Microsoft but at least 1092 00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:49,400 they're kind of more aware of the issue these days. 1093 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,100 Microsoft actually uses Linux as defense. 1094 00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:53,500 They used Linux to ground a claim 1095 00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:54,500 that they don't have a monopoly 1096 00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:57,600 because Linux could essentially 1097 00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,500 push them off their catbird seat at any time. 1098 00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:02,300 It was a very ingenious argument, totally specious 1099 00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:04,100 because it didn't 1100 00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:06,300 do anything to answer the charge 1101 00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:07,900 that they had previously engaged in 1102 00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:10,600 bullying and various anti-competitive practices. 1103 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,200 But it was clever of them, 1104 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,700 and, in an event, the judge didn't buy it. 1105 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,600 While ordinarily we in the Linux community are rather worried about 1106 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,000 letting Microsoft become the issue, 1107 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,200 but there was a Slashdot article about December of '98 1108 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:33,000 where a fellow named Matt at the noodle had pointed out that... 1109 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,000 a gentleman in Australia had managed to receive a refund for 1110 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,000 the unused copy of Windows that came with his computer. 1111 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:44,500 So he declared the 19th of January, was it January? 1112 00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:46,900 - No, it was February. - It was February. I'm sorry, the 19th of February. 1113 00:59:46,900 --> 00:59:49,000 He declared 19th of February Windows Refund Day 1114 00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,300 and he encouraged everyone to go to the computer manufacturers, 1115 00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:54,300 and return their unused copies of Windows... 1116 00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:57,500 as it was specified in the Windows End-User License Agreement. 1117 00:59:57,500 --> 01:00:00,600 It's important to remember that in the license itself, it says that 1118 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:05,500 you can receive a refund if you don't use the software, 1119 01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:08,500 and that the manufacture is bound by law to do this... 1120 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:10,500 or it was bond by contract. 1121 01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:13,500 And we found if you called up these manufactures, they basically said... 1122 01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:15,700 stop bothering me kid, and hung up on you. 1123 01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:18,700 We didn't really wanna sort of giving out our location, 1124 01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:21,900 or where we were going to meet, until... 1125 01:00:21,900 --> 01:00:22,900 you know, the very last seconds. 1126 01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:26,300 What we did is, we have people meet at the place where we could control 1127 01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:28,000 in the different towns around here. 1128 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,500 So I was the San Jose marshal, and I believe Nick you were... 1129 01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:33,900 I was... Rick Moen and I did San Francisco. 1130 01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:34,400 Right. 1131 01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:38,500 And so we had maps there and we handed them off to everybody who was coming. 1132 01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:42,500 Well, we actually met at a Denny's that's just outside the Foster City limits... 1133 01:00:42,500 --> 01:00:44,100 Foster City city limits, 1134 01:00:44,100 --> 01:00:47,500 which meant also just outside of Foster City Police jurisdiction, 1135 01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:51,100 which meant that any incidents that happened at the meeting point 1136 01:00:51,100 --> 01:00:53,400 happened in the jurisdiction of San Mateo, 1137 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,000 and if they told us to get lost, we'd say, fine, we are going to Foster City. Bye. 1138 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,500 It's sort of the Dukes of Hazzard method of avoiding the cops, so... 1139 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,500 Well, actually, originally we marched on the other side of this building. 1140 01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:09,500 We marched around and up onto the parking structure that's up there, 1141 01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:12,400 and that's where Microsoft had a reception laid out for us with 1142 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,500 drinks and a big sign that said... 1143 01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:16,900 Microsoft welcomes the Open Source Community. 1144 01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:20,900 And the local news cameras got shots of Eric Raymond and Microsoft representatives. 1145 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,900 Microsoft's story seems to mostly be that... 1146 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,500 this was not an issue for Microsoft, rather from the OEMs. 1147 01:01:29,500 --> 01:01:32,800 So we all needed to go back to our computer manufacturers and try yet again 1148 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,900 to try and get refund from them. 1149 01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,600 We responded to them saying, you know, 1150 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,600 that we tried that and it's not possible, we need Microsoft to take action at this point. 1151 01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:43,500 And they just repeated the tag line over and over again... 1152 01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:46,500 You need to go to the OEMs and manufacturers and get your refunds there. 1153 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:52,500 We had about 150 people, probably half of which had signs and such, so... 1154 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,500 Well, we ended up actually right in this courtyard here. 1155 01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,500 Basically we originally met, gathered outside, 1156 01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:05,500 various people sent groups in, people from FreeBSD camp sent a couple of folks in. 1157 01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:09,500 We had Eric Raymond and Chris actually tried to go up eventually. 1158 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,100 They had blocked the elevator off to us. 1159 01:02:12,100 --> 01:02:13,300 Where are the offices? 1160 01:02:13,300 --> 01:02:15,500 The offices are right up here on the 9th floor. 1161 01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:19,600 We got some really nice press out of it. 1162 01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,000 And we think as a result 1163 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,000 Toshiba made it possible for you to buy laptops without the operating system on it. 1164 01:02:25,700 --> 01:02:27,500 So, it's a small victory, but... 1165 01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,600 Well, even now, companies such as IBM and... 1166 01:02:31,700 --> 01:02:34,000 a lot of other computer manufacturers are allowing you... 1167 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,600 now to buy machines that don't have Windows on them. 1168 01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:48,300 When I was a kid and I went to school, 1169 01:02:48,300 --> 01:02:50,600 the teachers were trying to teach us to share. 1170 01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:52,600 They said if you bring some candy, 1171 01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,700 you can't eat it all yourself, you gotta share with other kids. 1172 01:02:55,700 --> 01:03:01,300 But now the administration says teachers should be teaching kids to say yes to licensing. 1173 01:03:01,300 --> 01:03:04,300 If you bring some software to school, oh, no, don't share it... 1174 01:03:04,300 --> 01:03:08,300 Sharing means you're pirate, sharing means you'll be put in jail. 1175 01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:12,500 That's not the way society should work. We need the good will. 1176 01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:17,500 The willingness to help other people at least when it's not too hard, 1177 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,000 because that's the basis of society, 1178 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,500 that's the fundamental resource, 1179 01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:26,400 that gives us a society instead of a dog-eat-dog jungle. 1180 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:27,600 So what about people say that if 1181 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,700 you have rampant piracy and eliminate the profit motive... 1182 01:03:30,700 --> 01:03:32,500 and creative works, software will not... 1183 01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:35,500 Well, they were wrong on both counts. For one thing, 1184 01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:39,500 people are making a profit from developing Free Software, 1185 01:03:39,500 --> 01:03:44,300 but for another, the freedom to have a community is more important. 1186 01:03:44,500 --> 01:03:48,300 People that look at, casually look at Open Source Free Software and think... 1187 01:03:48,300 --> 01:03:51,500 well, because you are supposed to share and do it for people's good will... 1188 01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:53,900 Doesn't that seem someone communist? What's your response? 1189 01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:57,700 Absolutely nonsense, it makes me really angry when people do that. 1190 01:03:57,700 --> 01:04:02,500 Well, back in, back in 1989, actually communism would have been a compliment. 1191 01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:05,100 The word people were using at that time was crazy, 1192 01:04:05,100 --> 01:04:07,000 and I want them to use capitalism. 1193 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,500 Communism is an ideology that forces people to share. 1194 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,200 If you don't share, you get thrown in jail or killed. 1195 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:20,500 In 1990, we got a visit from a director of an institute in Moscow University, 1196 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:24,500 and actually I saw him in Helsinki just 2 weeks ago, 1197 01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:27,500 but in any event, he came by, 1198 01:04:27,700 --> 01:04:31,500 and Richard Stallman had suggested that he visit Cygnus, 1199 01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:35,500 because he was interested in understanding how the Free Software model... 1200 01:04:35,500 --> 01:04:40,600 might apply to stimulating entrepreneurial innovation in Russia of all places, 1201 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,800 and we had been kind of secretive about our business plan, 1202 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,700 because you know, we weren't really sure that it was gonna work, 1203 01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:50,500 we didn't want to look too stupid if it failed. 1204 01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:52,800 But I was very very open with him. 1205 01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,700 The more I told him, the more he started to shake his head like this, 1206 01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:00,500 and I finally said, you know, what's wrong? 1207 01:05:00,500 --> 01:05:05,500 And he said, this sounds to much like communism to be successful in Russia. 1208 01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:11,500 You got to go a Gulag and end up in a mass grave with a bullet in the back of your head. 1209 01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:15,500 Open Source is not communism because it doesn't force people. 1210 01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:20,500 Karl Marx did not invent helping your neighbor. 1211 01:05:22,300 --> 01:05:26,300 It's not communist to have a commons. 1212 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:33,100 A commons existed long before communism as a philosophy of government. 1213 01:05:33,900 --> 01:05:36,000 There are many commons in our lives. 1214 01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,100 For example, we drive on the highway, 1215 01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:41,500 something that is maintained for our common good. 1216 01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:45,500 Actually labeling our business model... 1217 01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:48,200 means that it misses the point a little bit. 1218 01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:49,300 Whether it's communist, or whether it's capitalist, 1219 01:05:49,300 --> 01:05:52,900 the label doesn't matter, the real question is, 1220 01:05:52,900 --> 01:05:56,500 how much value can you deliver, how scalable is the business, 1221 01:05:56,500 --> 01:05:59,800 what kind of problems, what kind of rate of innovation can you sustain. 1222 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,500 And then, however you want to label that, it's really up to you. 1223 01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:33,600 A lot of people described, 1224 01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,500 that August LinuxWorld as Linux's coming-out party. 1225 01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:40,500 Linus Torvalds was very funny about this, he said, what, was Linux gay? 1226 01:06:42,500 --> 01:06:45,500 But some people said, yeah, that was our debutante ball. 1227 01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:47,200 That was when the... 1228 01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,200 Linux Gods, and the hardware hackers really got it together with the suits. 1229 01:07:01,300 --> 01:07:04,300 At 3 p.m. on August 10th 1999, 1230 01:07:04,300 --> 01:07:07,900 Linus Torvalds delivered the keynote address at LinuxWorld. 1231 01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:12,400 The crowds of 6000 people began lining up at 12 noon. 1232 01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,500 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Larry Augustin... 1233 01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:40,300 LinuxWorld Conference Chair and President and CEO of VA Linux Systems. 1234 01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:51,500 These guys have to clap, I pay them. 1235 01:07:51,500 --> 01:07:55,800 Thank you all for being here, looks like it's been a great show so far. 1236 01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:02,100 If you'll indulge me for a moment, I'm going to try to avoid the glare of the lights. 1237 01:08:02,300 --> 01:08:05,500 I still think there's lots of people, even though this is the 2nd show, 1238 01:08:05,500 --> 01:08:09,000 I still think there's lots of people who don't quite get... 1239 01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,500 what it is that's so exciting about Linux. 1240 01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:13,500 So there is a great show going on next door, 1241 01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:16,200 there's huge exhibits and everything, 1242 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:21,100 but it's the people out here that are real contributors, not those companies. 1243 01:08:21,100 --> 01:08:24,000 The person on next I know you all know, 1244 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,900 so I don't have to give anything in the way as introduction. 1245 01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:30,500 Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Linus Torvalds. 1246 01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:39,500 Thanks. 1247 01:08:42,500 --> 01:08:44,500 Calm down. 1248 01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,000 Calm down. 1249 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,500 Say ooooo... 1250 01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:54,500 Yes. 1251 01:08:54,700 --> 01:08:58,100 I don't want to just give one of my normal talks, 1252 01:08:58,100 --> 01:08:59,600 because I find them boring, 1253 01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,600 probably by now most of you find them boring too because you've heard them like 10 times. 1254 01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:07,200 But after the technical updates, we will actually try... 1255 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:11,700 whether we can do a question and answer session with 5,000 people, 1256 01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,500 or how many of you there are there. 1257 01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:17,700 And it may not actually work out, 1258 01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:21,400 because one of the 5,000 people is really loud. 1259 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:22,500 The one thing I will do, 1260 01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:26,500 which I always do in all my talks is the gratitude thing. 1261 01:09:26,900 --> 01:09:30,000 I want to kind of acknowledge the fact that... 1262 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,500 I'm obviously not been alone in doing Linux. 1263 01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,200 Red Hat, up 228%. 1264 01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,300 This is the IPO that everybody was waiting for. 1265 01:09:43,300 --> 01:09:45,800 They of course are behind the Linux operating software. 1266 01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:55,500 - R-H-A-T. - I know... 1267 01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:58,500 All I've gotten today, 1268 01:09:58,500 --> 01:10:01,900 are comments about what the stock price is, all morning, 1269 01:10:01,900 --> 01:10:05,400 you know it was at 41, it was at 42, it was at 47, 1270 01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,300 it was at 53, it was at 51... 1271 01:10:08,300 --> 01:10:12,100 Every machine as far as I can tell on the show floor 1272 01:10:12,100 --> 01:10:16,100 is pointed to their e-trade accounts or their broker accounts, they know the Red Hat's price. 1273 01:10:16,900 --> 01:10:19,400 - I can't believe this. - 47... 1274 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:21,200 I just heard 53. 1275 01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,200 Oh, boy. 1276 01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,200 Hang on, I didn't buy it. 1277 01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:25,600 You didn't buy? 1278 01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,800 No, no, I didn't buy. 1279 01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,500 I should've bought, but... 1280 01:10:29,500 --> 01:10:31,100 No, no, that's great. 1281 01:10:31,100 --> 01:10:32,600 If it's... If it's... 1282 01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:33,900 You guys don't know? 1283 01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:35,000 Well, you know 1284 01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,300 Red Hat being successful, just means that 1285 01:10:37,300 --> 01:10:40,800 it legitimizes Linux, so it's much easier for us to go out. 1286 01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:02,500 It's kind of been a little bit divided. 1287 01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:03,500 You've got a lot of people 1288 01:11:03,500 --> 01:11:04,500 that are pretty hardcore and 1289 01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:05,800 they're kind of offended by that, 1290 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,900 you know, cause they work really hard, they are not really getting... 1291 01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:11,400 maybe their fair share out of that. 1292 01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:12,600 Some people do get ticked, 1293 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:13,700 and you know the thing 1294 01:11:13,700 --> 01:11:15,900 that you see that on a lot of mailing lists or on Slashdot, you'll read, you know... 1295 01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:21,700 this guy is really mad because he didn't get a chance to, he didn't get a chance to do... 1296 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:24,200 to get stock from Red Hat, 1297 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:29,200 he didn't get a chance to get a job from this other company, you know. 1298 01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:33,200 But the kind of the shocking secret there is that, 1299 01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,300 most of the really hardcore guys, you know, they don't care so much. 1300 01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:38,100 The guys that are kind of really down in the trenches. 1301 01:11:38,100 --> 01:11:40,500 They're writing this code because they need this code. 1302 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:42,900 If we could invite Richard Stallman 1303 01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:46,300 who's the founder of the Free Software Association 1304 01:11:46,300 --> 01:11:48,200 and Tim Ney, who's the managing director. 1305 01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:49,500 There we go. 1306 01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:53,700 Ah, here it is. 1307 01:11:54,500 --> 01:11:59,300 Now, Richard, I saw you playing your recorder in Paris at that Linux conference 1308 01:11:59,300 --> 01:12:00,700 but I didn't have audio tracks. 1309 01:12:00,700 --> 01:12:02,900 So would you get them to add audio to their... 1310 01:12:02,900 --> 01:12:04,900 video downstream next time. 1311 01:12:04,900 --> 01:12:07,100 I don't have any control over that 1312 01:12:07,100 --> 01:12:11,100 unfortunately those things can only be done with non-free software. 1313 01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:17,900 We'll give you the award, and before you say a word, 1314 01:12:17,900 --> 01:12:22,800 we'll have Tim and yourself hold up a little representation of the contribution 1315 01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,300 towards the Free Software Association. 1316 01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:29,300 So, very ironic things have happened, 1317 01:12:29,700 --> 01:12:32,500 but nothing to match this 1318 01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:36,100 giving the Linus Tovarlds award to the Free Software Foundation 1319 01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:40,100 is sort of like giving the Han Solo award to the rebel fleet. 1320 01:12:44,700 --> 01:12:50,500 You see, some of you may not realize how far that analogy goes. 1321 01:12:52,300 --> 01:12:55,800 But actually let me tell you how this, how we got here. 1322 01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:57,300 See, what happened is, 1323 01:12:57,300 --> 01:12:59,900 15 years ago, if you wanted to use a computer, 1324 01:12:59,900 --> 01:13:03,900 the only way you could do it was to, was with proprietary software. 1325 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,500 Software that divides and subjugates the users. 1326 01:13:07,500 --> 01:13:09,400 And most people just... 1327 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:10,700 a lot of people didn't like it 1328 01:13:10,700 --> 01:13:12,200 but they saw no alternative. 1329 01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:16,000 But some of us were determined to make an alternative 1330 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,000 and we said we're gonna develop a free operating system, 1331 01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:21,900 a free software operating system 1332 01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:27,600 that will give users the chance to have freedom while they use their computers. 1333 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,800 Now a lot of people said, well, it's a nice idea 1334 01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,100 but it's so hard, you'll never get it done, 1335 01:13:33,100 --> 01:13:37,000 so I don't wanna participate, I don't believe you can ever get it done. 1336 01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,800 But luckily not everybody said that. 1337 01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,700 And clearly, we knew we would eventually get the kernel done. 1338 01:13:43,700 --> 01:13:45,000 But as it happens... 1339 01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,100 somebody else did a better kernel before we did. 1340 01:13:48,100 --> 01:13:51,700 Now in the old days, we had an overall strategy 1341 01:13:51,700 --> 01:13:55,300 from calling people's attention to the importance of freedom 1342 01:13:55,300 --> 01:13:59,300 to the freedom they can have, or not have, when they use a computer. 1343 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,100 Well what can we do about it? As far as I can tell, 1344 01:14:02,100 --> 01:14:08,100 the only workable way of trying to change this make that strategy work again 1345 01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:14,300 is to spread the word that the operating system you're using is actually the GNU system. 1346 01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,600 Somewhat modified of course. 1347 01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:19,600 And when people know this, 1348 01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,100 they'll take a look at the reasons we developed this system. 1349 01:14:23,100 --> 01:14:25,000 They'll think about these issues 1350 01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:27,800 and some of them will decide they agree. 1351 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,100 So I ask people, please tell the people this is the GNU system. 1352 01:14:31,100 --> 01:14:35,100 It's the combination of GNU and Linux, so we can call it GNU/Linux. 1353 01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:44,400 So Larry, when you were at Stanford 8, 9 years ago during your PhD. 1354 01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,100 Did you ever think you'd be in this position? 1355 01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:47,000 No. 1356 01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:48,400 All kidding aside. 1357 01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,300 No, I had no idea honestly. 1358 01:14:50,300 --> 01:14:53,100 What did you think you would be when you were finished up with your PhD? 1359 01:14:53,100 --> 01:14:54,500 You know that's a good question, 1360 01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:56,800 I really didn't have a good idea. I mean... 1361 01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,100 here we are, on this huge show floor. 1362 01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:03,100 There are people just going crazy about Linux. 1363 01:15:03,100 --> 01:15:06,500 We had 6,200 people crammed into a room 1364 01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:09,800 to see Linux, Linus, speak last night. 1365 01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,400 Here we are with, you know, 1366 01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,100 all of these huge venders all over the show. 1367 01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:17,200 It's, just, you have no idea that this is gonna happen. 1368 01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,000 I mean this is just this little operating system that we're happy with, 1369 01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,000 that a few people cared about, you know, 1370 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,000 I thought I'd have a nice little consulting business. 1371 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,400 And here I am suddenly, 1372 01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,900 with all of this huge show going on. 1373 01:15:27,900 --> 01:15:28,900 It's just incredible. 1374 01:15:28,900 --> 01:15:32,100 I mean, a year ago, you could look and say, you know, this is gonna be big 1375 01:15:32,100 --> 01:15:33,900 and everyone standing at the show going... 1376 01:15:33,900 --> 01:15:36,300 You know the show was big last year, 1377 01:15:36,300 --> 01:15:39,300 is it gonna, is it gonna be as big this year? 1378 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:40,600 Then you remind them... 1379 01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,800 You know, last year was only 6 months ago. 1380 01:15:42,900 --> 01:15:44,800 And then they go, oh, Linux time. 1381 01:16:11,500 --> 01:16:13,700 So leading up to the IPO... 1382 01:16:13,700 --> 01:16:19,700 we had arrived actually in San Diego on Tuesday night. 1383 01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:24,000 We spent Wednesday morning meeting investors in San Diego. 1384 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:25,800 We flew up to San Francisco, 1385 01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:29,700 spent Wednesday afternoon meeting investment firms in San Francisco. 1386 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,000 Then on Thursday morning of the IPO is 1387 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,500 when our stock would be traded publicly. 1388 01:16:36,500 --> 01:16:40,300 So it was nice we had ended the tour in San Francisco 1389 01:16:40,300 --> 01:16:44,200 because we could go to the Credit Suisse trading desk the next morning 1390 01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,100 to watch the public offering. 1391 01:16:46,100 --> 01:16:50,100 And in San Francisco being close enough to the company, and to our families, 1392 01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:54,100 we could invite people up to actually join us in the first trade. 1393 01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:57,200 So I invited my wife and we invited Linus and Tove, 1394 01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:00,700 and a number of other friends and people who worked in the company to join us. 1395 01:17:00,700 --> 01:17:02,200 Whenever we invite Linus and Tove, 1396 01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,300 they have two young children, 1397 01:17:05,300 --> 01:17:07,300 and I have a daughter, Andrea, 1398 01:17:07,300 --> 01:17:08,800 and we always bring the kids along, 1399 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,800 so we went in to the Credit Suisse trading floor 1400 01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,200 with all these traders and there are these 3 year old kids 1401 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,500 running around and chasing each other around the show floor, 1402 01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:16,500 around the trading floor. 1403 01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:21,700 So Linus and I walked in and we walked up in to the trading floor 1404 01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:23,100 and everyone was very excited, 1405 01:17:23,100 --> 01:17:26,300 and we kept asking them, well, how's it going? Are things going ok? 1406 01:17:26,300 --> 01:17:29,100 And they said, oh, it's... we're really excited, 1407 01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:30,300 I think things are going well. 1408 01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:33,900 We don't wanna, we don't wanna say, we don't wanna jinx anything. 1409 01:17:33,900 --> 01:17:37,900 We walked in and it was a big screen TV showing CNBC. 1410 01:17:38,500 --> 01:17:42,500 And it was amazing to us, but the theme for the day was Linux. 1411 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,000 Now we have an IPO that's gonna go today, 1412 01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,200 and when I mean go, it is going to go. 1413 01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:49,200 The estimates I'm hearing are staggering. 1414 01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,700 But watch VA Linux Systems. It goes at 12:40 today. 1415 01:17:52,700 --> 01:17:54,400 The symbol is L-N-U-X. 1416 01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,000 A provider of large scale computer servers and workstations, 1417 01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,200 specially designed for the Linux operating system. 1418 01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:06,300 The original range on this IPO was 11 to 13 dollars, then 21 to 23, then 28 to 30, 1419 01:18:06,500 --> 01:18:09,800 priced at 30, and the estimates I'm hearing I don't wanna repeat 1420 01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:11,100 because I don't have a confirmation. 1421 01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:16,000 But if they're true, they will blow your mind when this stock takes off at 12:40. 1422 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,400 I turned to Linus and I said, gee, did you ever think, 1423 01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:23,600 you know, you'd walk in here some day and Linux would be the theme on CNBC? 1424 01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,900 And Linus said in his joking way, said, oh, absolutely! 1425 01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:30,800 So we walk in and they show us the buy and sell orders coming in... 1426 01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:32,800 and it's incredible. 1427 01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:36,400 We're seeing numbers like 320 dollars, 340 dollars a share. 1428 01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:38,900 And I'm just in complete shock. 1429 01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:44,200 You know, this is over 10 times where we priced the offering. It was incredible. 1430 01:18:44,500 --> 01:18:48,500 And I remember Linus just kind of, sort of patting me on the back and saying, 1431 01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:52,500 you know, relax, and it was pretty exciting to see that. 1432 01:18:52,500 --> 01:18:55,400 We were, it was just amazing. We were stunned. 1433 01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,800 We were lucky that we were able to get back to the offices, 1434 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:02,600 we'd been in San Francisco, so we could come back to VA's offices 1435 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,100 to see everyone in the office for the IPO. 1436 01:19:05,100 --> 01:19:10,000 When we got back, we had, everyone was obviously very excited. 1437 01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,300 The IPO had done just tremendously well. 1438 01:19:13,300 --> 01:19:16,900 We had a little party that we put together. 1439 01:19:16,900 --> 01:19:18,600 It was interesting, while we were celebrating, 1440 01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,100 there were plenty of people that were still trying to work. 1441 01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:24,900 I recall cries of be quiet! We're on the phone! We're working! 1442 01:19:24,900 --> 01:19:28,600 As we went in to the offices 1443 01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:32,400 one of the things I did was I gave the road show presentation 1444 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:34,200 for the employees back at the office, 1445 01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:37,300 so they could have an idea of what we'd been telling investors, 1446 01:19:37,300 --> 01:19:40,900 and understand exactly what we'd put together for them. 1447 01:19:40,900 --> 01:19:49,600 But again the story of the day is VA Linux, now up 766% to 235 dollars to 265. 1448 01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,200 Sue, the best performing IPO ever. 1449 01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:57,700 Here it goes, Sycamore Networks was priced at 38 dollars, surged to $270. 1450 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,300 This has just beat it and by the way... 1451 01:20:00,300 --> 01:20:04,300 How do you feel about potentially billions of dollars of wealth being created 1452 01:20:04,500 --> 01:20:08,500 from your creation, that you're not directly cashing out? 1453 01:20:09,100 --> 01:20:12,500 So, if I hadn't made Linux available, I mean, 1454 01:20:12,500 --> 01:20:15,800 I wouldn't have gotten any money that way either. 1455 01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:18,700 So, I mean, it's a win-win situation. 1456 01:20:19,700 --> 01:20:25,500 Just the fact that there are a lot of commercial companies 1457 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:31,500 means that there are a lot of Linux people who used to work on Linux kind of on the side. 1458 01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,700 And now they get paid for doing what they wanted to do. 1459 01:20:34,700 --> 01:20:39,300 And that helps me in the sense that I wanted them to work on Linux anyway. 1460 01:21:00,900 --> 01:21:06,200 The whole GNU project is really one big hack. 1461 01:21:06,700 --> 01:21:10,700 It's one big act of subversive playful cleverness, 1462 01:21:10,700 --> 01:21:16,800 to change society for the better, because I'm only interested in changing it for the better, 1463 01:21:16,900 --> 01:21:21,100 but in a clever way. 1464 01:21:21,300 --> 01:21:25,300 Hi, we're the GNU/Stallmans, and this is the Free Software song. 1465 01:21:26,300 --> 01:21:29,900 Join us now and share the software 1466 01:21:29,900 --> 01:21:36,700 You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free 1467 01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:38,400 You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free 1468 01:21:46,100 --> 01:21:49,200 Hoarders may get piles of money 1469 01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:56,600 That is true, hackers, that is true 1470 01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,800 But they cannot help their neighbors 1471 01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:09,800 That's ain't good, hackers, that's ain't good 1472 01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,000 When we have enough free software 1473 01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:24,300 At our call, hackers, at our call 1474 01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,600 We'll throw out those dirty licenses 1475 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:37,400 Ever more, hackers, ever more 1476 01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,700 Join us now and share the software 1477 01:23:15,700 --> 01:23:22,900 You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free 1478 01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,800 Join us now and share the software 1479 01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:34,400 You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free 1480 01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,400 Oh, you'll be free 1481 01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:41,100 I let you know 1482 01:23:41,100 --> 01:23:44,000 That you'll be free 1483 01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:45,900 I let you know 1484 01:23:45,900 --> 01:23:49,900 That you'll be free 1485 01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:57,000 That you'll be free 131528

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