Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:06,424 --> 00:00:07,664
"Star Trek the next generation"
2
00:00:08,801 --> 00:00:09,945
had successfully
returned the franchise
3
00:00:09,969 --> 00:00:10,134
to television and flourished.
4
00:00:10,553 --> 00:00:11,553
How true.
5
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,200
The syndicated model
had worked so well
6
00:00:15,224 --> 00:00:17,244
for "next generation." Even
on the business side of things,
7
00:00:17,268 --> 00:00:19,121
"next generation" was
this amazing paradigm shift.
8
00:00:19,145 --> 00:00:23,355
Paramount knew that they
had a cash cow in "Star Trek."
9
00:00:23,441 --> 00:00:27,309
So Paramount did what any
studio does with its prized cow.
10
00:00:27,403 --> 00:00:28,643
Indubitably.
11
00:00:28,738 --> 00:00:30,404
Milk it for all it's worth.
12
00:00:30,489 --> 00:00:32,406
We were a few seasons
into "next generation"
13
00:00:32,491 --> 00:00:34,149
when they said, "let's
get another show."
14
00:00:34,243 --> 00:00:36,618
This is the story of
how "deep space nine"
15
00:00:36,704 --> 00:00:40,080
attempted to take "Star Trek"
somewhere it had never been.
16
00:00:40,166 --> 00:00:41,823
- A space station.
- Or in other words...
17
00:00:41,917 --> 00:00:43,208
Inside a starship boldly going.
18
00:00:43,294 --> 00:00:44,793
So even though...
19
00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:46,128
Some things are still the same.
20
00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:48,338
Most things were very different.
21
00:00:48,466 --> 00:00:50,999
So beam aboard and hold on tight
22
00:00:51,093 --> 00:00:54,928
as we boldly go into
the depths of "Star Trek."
23
00:00:57,308 --> 00:01:01,727
And you can see it all from
here in "the center seat."
24
00:01:06,650 --> 00:01:09,851
With the death of gene
roddenberry in 1991,
25
00:01:09,945 --> 00:01:13,197
the next chapter of the
"Star Trek" saga on TV
26
00:01:13,324 --> 00:01:15,616
would be untouched
by its creator.
27
00:01:15,701 --> 00:01:18,827
But "Star Trek" was now in
the hands of Rick berman,
28
00:01:18,913 --> 00:01:21,163
someone gene trusted
more than anyone.
29
00:01:21,248 --> 00:01:25,626
I felt it was my responsibility
to keep gene's optimism alive.
30
00:01:25,711 --> 00:01:27,869
Which, as the new
series approached,
31
00:01:27,963 --> 00:01:29,338
was easier said than done.
32
00:01:29,423 --> 00:01:31,924
One of the biggest
bugaboos driving writers crazy
33
00:01:32,009 --> 00:01:33,884
was the ideal of gene's
"perfect humans."
34
00:01:34,011 --> 00:01:36,261
How do you have
conflict among characters
35
00:01:36,347 --> 00:01:38,380
and have it be "Star Trek"
and its perfect humans
36
00:01:38,474 --> 00:01:40,048
in the advanced
24th-century world?
37
00:01:40,142 --> 00:01:41,600
There was another problem, too.
38
00:01:41,685 --> 00:01:43,552
We can't have two
"Star Trek" ships
39
00:01:43,646 --> 00:01:45,053
out at the same time.
40
00:01:45,147 --> 00:01:47,898
Do you want to
"confused" the audience
41
00:01:48,025 --> 00:01:49,724
with another ship show?
42
00:01:49,819 --> 00:01:52,111
With "the next
generation" still on the air,
43
00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:54,446
the network was looking
for something different.
44
00:01:54,532 --> 00:01:56,949
They've got the well-oiled
machine up and running.
45
00:01:57,034 --> 00:01:59,734
Their problem was
how to distinguish it,
46
00:01:59,829 --> 00:02:01,286
to go where you
hadn't gone before.
47
00:02:01,372 --> 00:02:03,539
- Meaning...
- It can't be just about
48
00:02:03,624 --> 00:02:06,575
going from planet to planet
and solving problems, you know,
49
00:02:06,669 --> 00:02:08,460
with aliens in space.
50
00:02:08,546 --> 00:02:11,588
So Rick berman and
showrunner Michael piller
51
00:02:11,715 --> 00:02:14,082
came up with something
exactly opposite.
52
00:02:14,176 --> 00:02:15,801
Let's do it on a space station.
53
00:02:15,886 --> 00:02:18,554
Let's knock be locked
on to an enterprise.
54
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,764
The premise, as Michael
piller used to explain it,
55
00:02:20,891 --> 00:02:23,016
was the action is
gonna come to us.
56
00:02:23,102 --> 00:02:24,768
Like dodge city, you
know, in "gunsmoke."
57
00:02:26,564 --> 00:02:28,480
And immediately now
you're telling a story
58
00:02:28,566 --> 00:02:30,315
that is different to
what has come before.
59
00:02:30,401 --> 00:02:32,767
Well, different. That's
what the network wanted.
60
00:02:32,862 --> 00:02:34,736
This is where the adventure is.
61
00:02:34,822 --> 00:02:38,106
No sooner had the adventure
begun than the worries set in.
62
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,609
Every new challenge to come
up with an original "Star Trek"
63
00:02:40,703 --> 00:02:43,445
is fraught with worry. Are
we making it too different?
64
00:02:43,539 --> 00:02:45,414
You know, it was
a little bit risky.
65
00:02:45,499 --> 00:02:46,957
And is some of it just gonna be,
66
00:02:47,084 --> 00:02:49,044
"we're gonna have a
certain aspect of the audience
67
00:02:49,086 --> 00:02:51,753
that's just gonna be so,
you know, bullheaded
68
00:02:51,839 --> 00:02:53,955
that they won't come in
and accept something new."
69
00:02:54,049 --> 00:02:57,050
Although risky, the writers
were more than ready
70
00:02:57,136 --> 00:02:59,219
to explore this new
style of "Star Trek."
71
00:02:59,305 --> 00:03:01,597
Let's push the boundaries
and see where are the edges,
72
00:03:01,682 --> 00:03:04,391
where are the limitations
of what "Star Trek" can be.
73
00:03:04,476 --> 00:03:07,477
Someone who was very
interested in pushing the edges
74
00:03:07,605 --> 00:03:10,105
with both his writing
and his beard color
75
00:03:10,191 --> 00:03:12,608
was "next generation"
writer ira behr.
76
00:03:12,693 --> 00:03:14,401
Man, he was just into it.
77
00:03:14,486 --> 00:03:16,236
[Laughs] I don't know
how else to say it.
78
00:03:16,322 --> 00:03:18,155
And coming over
to "deep space nine,"
79
00:03:18,282 --> 00:03:20,482
ira brought some bold ideas.
80
00:03:20,576 --> 00:03:22,651
Ira got very involved
81
00:03:22,745 --> 00:03:27,831
in wanting to do long
strings of continuing episodes.
82
00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:30,659
Which is now bingeworthy TV.
83
00:03:30,753 --> 00:03:33,253
But since the original series,
84
00:03:33,339 --> 00:03:35,839
"Star Trek" had made its
name as an episodic epic.
85
00:03:35,966 --> 00:03:37,341
It follows a definite pattern.
86
00:03:37,468 --> 00:03:39,092
The minute you
have serialization,
87
00:03:39,178 --> 00:03:40,677
you have lots of arcs going.
88
00:03:40,804 --> 00:03:42,179
You can't miss those things.
89
00:03:42,306 --> 00:03:43,838
At this point in
television, you know,
90
00:03:43,933 --> 00:03:45,307
almost everything was episodic.
91
00:03:45,392 --> 00:03:47,142
Yeah, when we will learn?
92
00:03:47,228 --> 00:03:49,010
And there were very
few serialized shows.
93
00:03:49,104 --> 00:03:50,812
"Dallas" was a serialized show.
94
00:03:50,898 --> 00:03:54,233
"Dynasty's" a serialized
show. Primetime soap operas.
95
00:03:54,318 --> 00:03:56,184
The studio wanted
a fresh approach,
96
00:03:56,278 --> 00:03:57,819
but not that fresh.
97
00:03:57,905 --> 00:04:00,355
- The studio said no.
- Paramount feared viewers
98
00:04:00,449 --> 00:04:03,242
would be adrift in this
new "Star Trek" universe.
99
00:04:03,327 --> 00:04:04,767
These shows were
gonna be syndicated.
100
00:04:04,828 --> 00:04:07,371
They were not necessarily
going to be syndicated in order.
101
00:04:07,498 --> 00:04:09,698
And they wanted
stand-alone episodes.
102
00:04:09,792 --> 00:04:11,833
And even though...
103
00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:14,869
Ira was very good at talking me
into doing what he wanted to do.
104
00:04:14,964 --> 00:04:16,371
He wasn't that good.
105
00:04:16,465 --> 00:04:18,632
The studio absolutely said no.
106
00:04:18,717 --> 00:04:23,878
Okay, well, that's the last
we'll hear of that most likely.
107
00:04:23,973 --> 00:04:26,723
It may not have been
ready for serialized plot lines,
108
00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:29,017
but "Star Trek" was
ready for something else
109
00:04:29,103 --> 00:04:30,719
far more groundbreaking.
110
00:04:30,813 --> 00:04:33,146
Your hero's a negro captain.
111
00:04:33,232 --> 00:04:36,224
Avery being the first
African-American captain
112
00:04:36,318 --> 00:04:38,893
of a "Star Trek" series
like that in that day and age
113
00:04:38,988 --> 00:04:40,395
was a big deal.
114
00:04:40,489 --> 00:04:42,897
People won't accept
it. It's not believable.
115
00:04:42,992 --> 00:04:44,199
It just didn't happen.
116
00:04:44,285 --> 00:04:45,701
It was exciting to know
117
00:04:45,786 --> 00:04:48,737
that we were going to
change history really with that.
118
00:04:48,831 --> 00:04:51,290
This was before there
was a black president.
119
00:04:51,375 --> 00:04:54,126
So this was really
groundbreaking at the time.
120
00:04:54,211 --> 00:04:57,629
Not only did starfleet have
its first commander of color,
121
00:04:57,715 --> 00:04:59,756
but unlike the
captains before him,
122
00:04:59,883 --> 00:05:02,417
Benjamin sisko was
carrying a lot of baggage.
123
00:05:02,511 --> 00:05:03,760
He was coming aboard
124
00:05:03,887 --> 00:05:06,421
with a very specific,
complicated backstory.
125
00:05:06,515 --> 00:05:09,099
And so we start with a
captain losing his wife.
126
00:05:09,226 --> 00:05:11,810
Damn it! We just
can't leave her here!
127
00:05:11,895 --> 00:05:13,353
Being left with his son.
128
00:05:13,439 --> 00:05:16,732
I was just thinking how
much you look like your mom.
129
00:05:16,817 --> 00:05:20,319
Not only would sisko be
unlike any captain before him...
130
00:05:20,404 --> 00:05:23,822
He believes captain picard
is personally responsible
131
00:05:23,907 --> 00:05:27,275
for the death of his wife.
132
00:05:27,369 --> 00:05:29,703
And he now has to
come to terms with all that.
133
00:05:29,788 --> 00:05:31,663
Otherwise, he
has no future at all.
134
00:05:31,749 --> 00:05:33,269
One who does not
wish to be among us...
135
00:05:33,334 --> 00:05:36,460
In that sense, he's very much
like captain pike in "the cage."
136
00:05:36,587 --> 00:05:39,046
I'm tired of being
responsible for 203 lives.
137
00:05:39,131 --> 00:05:42,123
By choosing all these
elements, Michael piller set up
138
00:05:42,217 --> 00:05:44,551
the incredible possibilities
for this character.
139
00:05:44,636 --> 00:05:47,220
But creating a complex,
conflicted captain
140
00:05:47,306 --> 00:05:50,640
would prove to be a
double-edged sword.
141
00:05:50,768 --> 00:05:53,268
That was a difficult
fit for "Star Trek."
142
00:05:53,354 --> 00:05:56,638
Like, that's not how a
starfleet captain should be.
143
00:05:56,732 --> 00:06:00,025
Avery Brooks's audition, though
he didn't know it at the time,
144
00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:01,810
turned out to be a
previous production
145
00:06:01,904 --> 00:06:04,404
that showcased
his emotional range.
146
00:06:04,490 --> 00:06:07,532
I had done a movie of
the week for showtime.
147
00:06:07,618 --> 00:06:09,493
It was a version of
"uncle Tom's cabin."
148
00:06:09,620 --> 00:06:12,746
Nobody gettin' behind my soul.
149
00:06:12,831 --> 00:06:16,491
Avery came off as an
incredibly powerful man
150
00:06:16,585 --> 00:06:20,921
with hurt, with damage,
which works perfectly for sisko.
151
00:06:21,006 --> 00:06:22,831
I was ready to die with her.
152
00:06:22,925 --> 00:06:24,903
We settled on Avery Brooks
because he was the best.
153
00:06:24,927 --> 00:06:26,718
He was the best captain.
154
00:06:26,804 --> 00:06:28,762
And this captain's
leadership would be tested
155
00:06:28,847 --> 00:06:33,174
as much off the bridge
as on it by a 15-year-old.
156
00:06:33,268 --> 00:06:36,478
I was instructed to not be like
wil wheaton and Wesley crusher.
157
00:06:36,563 --> 00:06:40,065
He was too much of a
problem solver-slash-know-it-all,
158
00:06:40,150 --> 00:06:44,519
and they wanted my character
to be more human and fallible.
159
00:06:44,613 --> 00:06:46,905
- Just like a regular kid.
- Wanna go for a swim?
160
00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:48,857
Like "the next
generation" before it,
161
00:06:48,951 --> 00:06:52,527
"deep space nine" imagined
real-life family struggles
162
00:06:52,621 --> 00:06:54,195
in the 24th century.
163
00:06:54,289 --> 00:06:56,623
Is this the food replicator?
164
00:06:56,708 --> 00:06:59,793
And this dose of
20th-century reality
165
00:06:59,878 --> 00:07:02,370
was more alien to
American television
166
00:07:02,464 --> 00:07:04,372
than even the weirdest aliens.
167
00:07:04,466 --> 00:07:08,468
How often did you see a
single father raising a child
168
00:07:08,554 --> 00:07:11,221
in those days of
television? Not very often.
169
00:07:11,348 --> 00:07:14,048
So Paramount would be
getting just what they wanted...
170
00:07:14,143 --> 00:07:16,384
A very different "Star Trek"
171
00:07:16,478 --> 00:07:19,187
with a very different captain,
172
00:07:19,273 --> 00:07:21,723
captaining a very
different starship.
173
00:07:21,817 --> 00:07:23,233
It's not a starship.
174
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,444
- It's a station.
- Space station?
175
00:07:25,529 --> 00:07:28,229
Indeed. The days of
the enterprise were over,
176
00:07:28,323 --> 00:07:31,032
and captain sisko would
need a station to captain.
177
00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:32,951
It was very difficult to come by
178
00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:34,578
that station's design.
179
00:07:34,705 --> 00:07:36,329
There was a huge
evolution to it all.
180
00:07:36,415 --> 00:07:39,908
In its whole different approach,
we were going about the station
181
00:07:40,002 --> 00:07:42,794
as being a kind of
tower of babel place
182
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,914
that was built over
a long period of time
183
00:07:46,008 --> 00:07:47,916
by several cultures.
184
00:07:48,010 --> 00:07:49,676
So we started doing sketching
185
00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:52,086
of things that looked
like an alien platform
186
00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:53,763
with different levels
187
00:07:53,891 --> 00:07:55,599
and different
hardware hanging off
188
00:07:55,726 --> 00:07:57,425
and places for ships to dock.
189
00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:59,603
So we had these crazy designs.
190
00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:01,771
In the end, producers decided
191
00:08:01,899 --> 00:08:04,265
the solution to the
space station dilemma
192
00:08:04,359 --> 00:08:07,486
was a simple matter of
keeping up with the cardassians.
193
00:08:07,571 --> 00:08:09,362
I'm allowed to do
whatever I want.
194
00:08:09,448 --> 00:08:12,324
Oh, no, no, no. The cardassians.
195
00:08:12,409 --> 00:08:15,443
You can understand
that we are skeptical.
196
00:08:15,537 --> 00:08:16,778
When it was finally decided
197
00:08:16,872 --> 00:08:18,246
it would be a
cardassian station,
198
00:08:18,332 --> 00:08:20,268
that was still a blank slate.
What did that look like?
199
00:08:20,292 --> 00:08:22,617
We have to start
thinking like cardassians.
200
00:08:22,711 --> 00:08:24,953
Who knows how cardassians think?
201
00:08:25,047 --> 00:08:28,131
But Rick berman knew one thing
about cardassian architecture.
202
00:08:28,258 --> 00:08:31,176
Rick berman rightly
said this should be a ship
203
00:08:31,261 --> 00:08:34,295
that any kid watching the show
could draw in a few strokes.
204
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:36,349
All right, I haven't got
a title for this one yet.
205
00:08:36,433 --> 00:08:37,799
Anybody got any ideas?
206
00:08:37,893 --> 00:08:39,643
And it eventually came around
207
00:08:39,770 --> 00:08:43,638
to maybe the station
could be kind of a wheel.
208
00:08:43,732 --> 00:08:48,026
A circular station with a
hub, you know, with a core
209
00:08:48,111 --> 00:08:50,028
made a lot of sense.
210
00:08:50,113 --> 00:08:55,158
At the end of the process,
the station looked very alien.
211
00:08:55,285 --> 00:08:58,486
The model for deep space
nine was six feet around,
212
00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:01,122
and it was the most
beautiful model.
213
00:09:01,208 --> 00:09:04,325
The designers had
reinvented the wheel for space.
214
00:09:04,419 --> 00:09:06,628
They were like cogs in a wheel.
215
00:09:06,713 --> 00:09:10,674
They actually had cogs
that rolled in a cogged floor.
216
00:09:10,801 --> 00:09:12,467
Berman built,
up until that point,
217
00:09:12,553 --> 00:09:15,670
the largest standing interior
set ever made for "Star Trek"
218
00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:17,389
was the promenade.
219
00:09:17,474 --> 00:09:20,225
You walk on and
you were enveloped.
220
00:09:20,310 --> 00:09:24,271
You came on the set,
and it was hard not to think
221
00:09:24,356 --> 00:09:26,106
that you were on a space station
222
00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:28,108
and that everything
was fully functional.
223
00:09:28,193 --> 00:09:29,734
It was beautiful.
224
00:09:29,820 --> 00:09:31,820
Beautiful. Unusual.
225
00:09:31,905 --> 00:09:34,489
It was like nothing "Star
Trek" had seen before.
226
00:09:34,575 --> 00:09:35,991
Unfortunately...
227
00:09:36,076 --> 00:09:37,993
"Deep space nine"
and "Babylon 5,"
228
00:09:38,078 --> 00:09:40,412
they came out right
about the same time.
229
00:09:40,497 --> 00:09:44,532
"Babylon 5," like "Star Trek,"
was set on a space station.
230
00:09:44,626 --> 00:09:45,812
Excuse me, but I'm in the middle
231
00:09:45,836 --> 00:09:47,146
of 15 things, all
of them annoying.
232
00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:49,337
I think that there
were a lot of people
233
00:09:49,423 --> 00:09:50,984
who thought that one
stole from the other,
234
00:09:51,008 --> 00:09:53,049
that "Star Trek" was
ripping off "Babylon 5."
235
00:09:53,176 --> 00:09:55,043
And it certainly didn't help
236
00:09:55,137 --> 00:09:58,722
that "Babylon 5" had already
been pitched to Paramount.
237
00:09:58,849 --> 00:10:00,381
J. Michael Straczynski
had come in,
238
00:10:00,475 --> 00:10:02,642
pitched what we all
now know as "Babylon 5."
239
00:10:02,728 --> 00:10:05,562
Not every dream I've heard
lately ends well for you.
240
00:10:05,689 --> 00:10:06,888
Paramount turned it down.
241
00:10:06,982 --> 00:10:08,648
Stracynski. I believe he thought
242
00:10:08,734 --> 00:10:10,442
that "Star Trek"
was ripping him off.
243
00:10:10,527 --> 00:10:12,402
"Deep space nine"
ripping off "Babylon 5?"
244
00:10:12,529 --> 00:10:14,404
I sincerely doubt
it. I really do.
245
00:10:14,531 --> 00:10:17,398
I just think that those
are ironic similarities.
246
00:10:17,492 --> 00:10:19,784
Similarities that ended there
247
00:10:19,870 --> 00:10:22,787
because "deep space
nine" was forging ahead,
248
00:10:26,752 --> 00:10:29,243
[McFadden] With a big cast,
big set, and big expectations,
249
00:10:29,338 --> 00:10:32,047
shooting on the pilot
began in August of 1992
250
00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:35,008
with "the next generation"
alumnus David Carson
251
00:10:35,093 --> 00:10:36,468
in the director's chair.
252
00:10:36,553 --> 00:10:38,072
It wasn't the first
pilot that I'd done,
253
00:10:38,096 --> 00:10:39,554
but it was certainly
the biggest.
254
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,589
Also big were the stakes.
255
00:10:41,683 --> 00:10:44,476
I had this meeting with the
production people at Paramount
256
00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:47,095
who said to me, "this is
the first time we're doing
257
00:10:47,189 --> 00:10:49,764
a 'Star Trek' series
without gene roddenberry."
258
00:10:49,858 --> 00:10:51,983
Paramount feared
that if "deep space nine"
259
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:54,936
ventured too far from
"Star Trek's" traditions,
260
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:56,988
the fans might desert them.
261
00:10:57,074 --> 00:10:58,823
There is that risk.
262
00:10:58,909 --> 00:11:01,993
So the studio instructions
were crystal clear.
263
00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:05,113
"This pilot and this series is
very important to Paramount,
264
00:11:05,207 --> 00:11:06,948
so we want you to know
265
00:11:07,042 --> 00:11:09,117
that it's very important
that we get it right."
266
00:11:09,211 --> 00:11:11,044
And, of course, a
director on a pilot
267
00:11:11,129 --> 00:11:13,129
isn't just coming
in for the week,
268
00:11:13,256 --> 00:11:15,131
getting an episode
together and helping.
269
00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:16,486
A director on a pilot
really sets the tone.
270
00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:17,959
Cut!
271
00:11:18,053 --> 00:11:20,512
David had his
work cut out for him
272
00:11:20,597 --> 00:11:24,099
with a complicated pilot
script called "emissary."
273
00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:27,769
The "emissary" was
such a difficult story to tell.
274
00:11:27,854 --> 00:11:31,472
And David needed to get it
right from the very first frame.
275
00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:34,475
The first scene that I
shot of "deep space nine"
276
00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:36,069
was the scene on the bridge,
277
00:11:36,154 --> 00:11:38,146
and there was a lot of
movement in the scene.
278
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,864
So I thought this is a great way
279
00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:41,533
for us all to get to
know this bridge.
280
00:11:41,618 --> 00:11:43,284
So I followed them
around on the crane.
281
00:11:43,370 --> 00:11:45,161
It was problematic,
and it caused Livingston
282
00:11:45,288 --> 00:11:46,821
to come and tell
me what am I doing.
283
00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:49,499
"You're still doing this
shot at lunchtime?" [Laughs]
284
00:11:49,626 --> 00:11:51,104
'Cause I had to represent
the production end,
285
00:11:51,128 --> 00:11:52,605
and I had to come
at him and tell him,
286
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:54,662
"David, you've got to move on."
287
00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:56,664
He didn't want to, and
a lot of times he didn't.
288
00:11:56,758 --> 00:11:58,332
Damn it! What's the problem?
289
00:11:58,427 --> 00:12:01,469
The problem was to do with
some awkward introductions.
290
00:12:01,555 --> 00:12:03,337
We had a lot of
characters to introduce.
291
00:12:03,432 --> 00:12:04,839
Who the hell are you?
292
00:12:04,933 --> 00:12:07,100
And they were all not
cookie-cutter type of people.
293
00:12:07,185 --> 00:12:09,561
- [Laughing]
- They were all kinds of people
294
00:12:09,646 --> 00:12:11,229
that we had really
never seen before.
295
00:12:11,314 --> 00:12:13,064
Some weren't
really people at all.
296
00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:15,400
The trill is an
implant. It's ancient.
297
00:12:15,485 --> 00:12:17,277
Trying to figure
out that relationship.
298
00:12:17,362 --> 00:12:19,779
A symbiotic relationship
299
00:12:19,865 --> 00:12:22,782
between basically an
ancient asexual slug
300
00:12:22,868 --> 00:12:24,868
and an alien
race called the trill,
301
00:12:24,995 --> 00:12:26,494
played by Terry Farrell.
302
00:12:26,580 --> 00:12:29,864
"Deep space nine"
was not just about man.
303
00:12:29,958 --> 00:12:33,418
It was about a whole bunch
of different races and species.
304
00:12:33,503 --> 00:12:36,379
And for the actors who
played these races and species,
305
00:12:36,506 --> 00:12:39,466
well, even some of
them were a little lost.
306
00:12:39,551 --> 00:12:41,760
I think there's been a
mistake. This is a man's role.
307
00:12:41,845 --> 00:12:45,430
It's not written for a woman,
and that was my conditioning.
308
00:12:45,515 --> 00:12:47,849
Nana visitor was invited to read
309
00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:50,518
for the character of a
bajoran revolutionary.
310
00:12:50,604 --> 00:12:53,605
She found the way it
was written revolutionary.
311
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:55,501
Science fiction needs more
strong women characters.
312
00:12:55,525 --> 00:12:57,150
I'm always saying
that, aren't I, Jules?
313
00:12:59,029 --> 00:13:01,007
Nana certainly came on
strong for her audition as Kira.
314
00:13:01,031 --> 00:13:04,073
There was a long table
with Rick berman and me
315
00:13:04,201 --> 00:13:06,567
and two other people
sitting around behind it,
316
00:13:06,661 --> 00:13:09,996
and she stormed into the
room really and started reading.
317
00:13:10,081 --> 00:13:13,741
I think it was the first scene
with commander sisko.
318
00:13:13,835 --> 00:13:16,795
I don't believe the federation
has any business being here.
319
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,746
I was pretty pissed
off in that scene.
320
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,026
And she got hold of these chairs
321
00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:22,300
and started to throw
them around the room.
322
00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:24,418
And it was extraordinary.
And we sat there going,
323
00:13:24,513 --> 00:13:26,087
"wow. This really
is a revolutionary
324
00:13:26,181 --> 00:13:27,421
who wants to be doing stuff.
325
00:13:27,516 --> 00:13:30,266
I remember terrifying
someone in the room.
326
00:13:30,393 --> 00:13:32,260
And then she did her last line,
327
00:13:32,354 --> 00:13:35,271
banged her hands on the
tabletop and glared at us
328
00:13:35,398 --> 00:13:39,100
as if to say, "okay,
I got it, right?"
329
00:13:39,194 --> 00:13:41,027
And turned and
walked out of the room.
330
00:13:41,112 --> 00:13:43,196
And she was right.
She got it. That was it.
331
00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:44,948
I'll find a way to
make it happen.
332
00:13:45,075 --> 00:13:47,992
The aggressive audition
technique was all the rage...
333
00:13:48,078 --> 00:13:50,787
René auberjonois came
in, stalked into the room,
334
00:13:50,914 --> 00:13:52,622
shut the door firmly behind him.
335
00:13:52,749 --> 00:13:55,959
With some cast members
virtually demanding their roles.
336
00:13:56,086 --> 00:13:57,919
He didn't say hello to anybody.
337
00:13:58,004 --> 00:14:00,672
He finished his last
line, turned his back,
338
00:14:00,757 --> 00:14:02,360
walked through the door,
and slammed it behind him.
339
00:14:02,384 --> 00:14:06,460
He came in with the body
posture and the attitude
340
00:14:06,555 --> 00:14:08,462
and everything that was odo.
341
00:14:08,557 --> 00:14:09,931
It was wild.
342
00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:12,600
He was as rude as he
could possibly be to all of us,
343
00:14:12,686 --> 00:14:14,936
and that was odo.
344
00:14:15,021 --> 00:14:16,396
You're gonna get sloppy
345
00:14:16,481 --> 00:14:18,273
without me to
keep an eye on you.
346
00:14:18,358 --> 00:14:20,233
I don't think so.
347
00:14:20,318 --> 00:14:22,643
Armin shimerman
reprised his ferengi act
348
00:14:22,737 --> 00:14:26,072
from "the next generation,"
but this time as quark,
349
00:14:26,157 --> 00:14:29,650
and was now an
occasionally affable bartender.
350
00:14:29,744 --> 00:14:34,822
I like to discuss arranging
a line of credit. [Laughing]
351
00:14:34,916 --> 00:14:37,825
The cardassians had come over
from "the next generation," too,
352
00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:41,421
but the inscrutable garak,
played by Andrew Robinson,
353
00:14:41,506 --> 00:14:44,665
was derived in part from
an unlikely inspiration.
354
00:14:44,759 --> 00:14:47,668
I played liberace
once on a TV movie.
355
00:14:47,762 --> 00:14:49,053
I have a wonderful song.
356
00:14:49,139 --> 00:14:50,513
There was something about garak
357
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,557
that always was reminding me...
358
00:14:52,642 --> 00:14:55,602
He became kind
of liberace's cousin.
359
00:14:55,687 --> 00:14:58,846
I do appreciate making
new friends whenever I can.
360
00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:00,481
But the main
influence for garak,
361
00:15:00,567 --> 00:15:03,693
a cardassian spy, drew
on contemporary literature.
362
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:05,403
Our conception of garak
363
00:15:05,488 --> 00:15:07,614
was a character out
of a le carré novel.
364
00:15:07,699 --> 00:15:09,449
"Tinker tailor soldier spy"
365
00:15:09,534 --> 00:15:12,118
was a common reference
point in the writers' room,
366
00:15:12,203 --> 00:15:14,162
that garak was created
with that in mind.
367
00:15:14,247 --> 00:15:16,748
If you can't beat it, spy on it.
368
00:15:16,833 --> 00:15:19,200
Which may explain
garak's other peculiarity.
369
00:15:19,294 --> 00:15:21,252
I have a clothing shop nearby.
370
00:15:21,338 --> 00:15:24,756
For garak to end up
on "deep space nine,"
371
00:15:24,841 --> 00:15:26,540
and as a tailor,
372
00:15:26,635 --> 00:15:29,427
it's one of the most
bizarre dramatic situations.
373
00:15:29,512 --> 00:15:31,095
It's Dr. Bashir, isn't it?
374
00:15:31,181 --> 00:15:33,714
Alexander siddig
provided "Star Trek"
375
00:15:33,808 --> 00:15:38,052
with, hmm, arguably its
first truly dashing doctor
376
00:15:38,146 --> 00:15:41,189
as its chief medical
officer, Julian bashir.
377
00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:45,726
Dr. Bashir is this wide-eyed,
idealistic starfleet officer.
378
00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:47,395
This is where the adventure is.
379
00:15:47,489 --> 00:15:49,197
Siddig. He was just terrific.
380
00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:51,616
I think we all agreed on
him as soon as he arrived.
381
00:15:51,701 --> 00:15:53,076
Along with Irish
actor colm meaney.
382
00:15:53,203 --> 00:15:55,069
Another neutrino disruption.
383
00:15:55,163 --> 00:15:57,705
There were a lot of
characters in the first episode,
384
00:15:57,791 --> 00:16:00,959
something that posed quite
a challenge for the director.
385
00:16:01,044 --> 00:16:02,910
What the hell is
happening out there?
386
00:16:03,004 --> 00:16:06,464
Very often, directors
on television
387
00:16:06,549 --> 00:16:08,091
are trying to come in on budget.
388
00:16:08,218 --> 00:16:09,926
They got a lot of pressure,
389
00:16:10,053 --> 00:16:13,346
and they are going to
try to move you through
390
00:16:13,431 --> 00:16:16,424
as fast as possible.
That's good enough.
391
00:16:16,518 --> 00:16:20,094
Well, they didn't come in
on budget nor on schedule.
392
00:16:20,188 --> 00:16:22,263
Don't ask my opinion next time!
393
00:16:22,357 --> 00:16:24,983
So much so, David fell behind
394
00:16:25,068 --> 00:16:27,860
with the feature-length
special effects laden premiere.
395
00:16:27,946 --> 00:16:30,271
"Emissary" went over budget.
We went over schedule.
396
00:16:30,365 --> 00:16:32,031
This is outrageous.
397
00:16:32,117 --> 00:16:35,443
Paramount was soon breathing
down the young director's neck.
398
00:16:35,537 --> 00:16:38,830
He did get a lot of
crap from the studio
399
00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:41,791
about falling behind schedule
and about going over budget.
400
00:16:41,918 --> 00:16:43,617
But in David's defense...
401
00:16:43,712 --> 00:16:45,586
It's the hardest
pilot I've ever done.
402
00:16:45,672 --> 00:16:48,506
And, unfortunately, the
director has to take the wrath.
403
00:16:48,591 --> 00:16:49,790
It's show business.
404
00:16:49,884 --> 00:16:50,884
Exactly.
405
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:55,304
You will disarm your weapons.
406
00:16:55,390 --> 00:16:57,223
The pilot for "deep space nine"
407
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:59,767
premiered on January 3, 1993.
408
00:16:59,853 --> 00:17:01,561
And the music comes on.
409
00:17:01,646 --> 00:17:04,972
♪♪♪
410
00:17:05,066 --> 00:17:07,641
It started very strongly.
411
00:17:07,736 --> 00:17:11,821
And all I could think of
was, "that's what we made?"
412
00:17:11,948 --> 00:17:13,647
And I was impressed.
I was like, "wow."
413
00:17:13,742 --> 00:17:16,826
I found it beautiful.
I found it powerful.
414
00:17:16,953 --> 00:17:19,287
Critics lauded its ambition.
415
00:17:19,372 --> 00:17:20,913
And I think when we made it,
416
00:17:20,999 --> 00:17:23,708
it was the most expensive
pilot on record. A lot of money.
417
00:17:23,793 --> 00:17:26,127
$12 million to be precise.
418
00:17:26,212 --> 00:17:27,606
They spent so much
money on the pilot
419
00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:30,006
that they didn't have a
lot of money after that.
420
00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:32,675
So they did a bunch of bottle
shows on the space station.
421
00:17:32,802 --> 00:17:37,346
Bottle shows are shot primarily
in one location to save money.
422
00:17:37,474 --> 00:17:39,557
And it fed into this mythology
423
00:17:39,642 --> 00:17:42,185
that this was a show
that boldly goes nowhere.
424
00:17:42,312 --> 00:17:45,354
While shooting in one
location reduced costs,
425
00:17:45,482 --> 00:17:47,899
the makeup budget was
going in the opposite direction.
426
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:50,684
Oh. Oh.
427
00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:54,363
Even by "Star Trek's" standards,
there were more alien races
428
00:17:54,491 --> 00:17:55,907
than you could
shake a phaser at.
429
00:17:55,992 --> 00:17:58,034
Klingons and
cardassians and romulans,
430
00:17:58,161 --> 00:18:00,620
much less the ferengi, much
less the aliens of the week.
431
00:18:00,705 --> 00:18:03,030
In a way off the wall
and kind of wacky,
432
00:18:03,124 --> 00:18:05,792
and it had so many
challenges that were so great.
433
00:18:05,877 --> 00:18:07,502
And so expensive.
434
00:18:07,587 --> 00:18:11,380
Keeping up with the
cardassians was proving costly.
435
00:18:11,508 --> 00:18:12,799
Well, the cardassians were part
436
00:18:12,884 --> 00:18:14,884
of "Star Trek the
next generation."
437
00:18:15,011 --> 00:18:17,378
It was improved upon greatly.
438
00:18:17,472 --> 00:18:21,048
Improved upon by master
makeup magician Michael Westmore
439
00:18:21,142 --> 00:18:24,718
who now had his hands
very full as head of makeup
440
00:18:24,813 --> 00:18:27,855
for "the next generation"
and "deep space nine."
441
00:18:27,941 --> 00:18:30,066
We had a thing called
the Westmore alien.
442
00:18:30,193 --> 00:18:33,903
The Westmore alien was boxes
of noses and heads and ears
443
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:35,655
from previous aliens.
444
00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:37,824
And that is good enough for me.
445
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:40,576
But for the non-randomly
put-together aliens...
446
00:18:40,703 --> 00:18:42,954
The jem'hadar are often
one step ahead of the vorta.
447
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,164
I always had something in earth
448
00:18:45,250 --> 00:18:46,916
that the people
could associate with,
449
00:18:47,043 --> 00:18:48,075
but they didn't know.
450
00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:49,418
It's like the jem'hadar
451
00:18:49,546 --> 00:18:51,587
was a little bit of
dinosaur and rhinoceros.
452
00:18:51,714 --> 00:18:54,048
And you can see. It's like,
where do you put the horn?
453
00:18:54,134 --> 00:18:56,094
The horn was their hair
on the back of their head.
454
00:18:56,886 --> 00:18:59,031
For Michael, "deep space
nine's" aliens were his canvas.
455
00:18:59,055 --> 00:19:01,764
Did you tell him about
that slug inside of you?
456
00:19:01,891 --> 00:19:04,100
Yes, Benjamin.
He knows I'm a trill.
457
00:19:04,227 --> 00:19:08,429
With Terry Farrell, I spotted it
by hand. Take me 20 minutes.
458
00:19:08,523 --> 00:19:11,065
For some, the
rigorous makeup routine
459
00:19:11,151 --> 00:19:13,234
was just a way to
get into character.
460
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:15,111
They have us come in
early, get our makeup on
461
00:19:15,238 --> 00:19:16,904
and wait for our scenes.
462
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:19,448
So I would walk
around Paramount,
463
00:19:19,576 --> 00:19:22,109
and it was one of the best ways
464
00:19:22,203 --> 00:19:26,706
to prepare for being a bajoran
who's looked at with prejudice,
465
00:19:26,791 --> 00:19:28,791
because no one was really aware
466
00:19:28,918 --> 00:19:31,085
there was a new
"Star Trek" filming.
467
00:19:31,171 --> 00:19:32,628
And I get double takes,
468
00:19:32,755 --> 00:19:35,047
and I get people
looking at my nose.
469
00:19:35,133 --> 00:19:37,717
And after a while,
it would piss me off.
470
00:19:37,802 --> 00:19:40,803
It would be like,
"what?" [Laughs]
471
00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:44,640
And that attitude I
definitely brought to Kira.
472
00:19:44,767 --> 00:19:46,559
Commander, let's
not be confused here.
473
00:19:46,644 --> 00:19:48,477
My loyalties are to bajor.
474
00:19:48,605 --> 00:19:50,855
Well, no one
would question that.
475
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,940
But when it came to
what Nana was wearing,
476
00:19:53,026 --> 00:19:54,734
well, that was a
little on the nose.
477
00:19:54,819 --> 00:19:57,820
Bob blackman gave it such a look
478
00:19:57,947 --> 00:20:00,948
and such a texture
to the whole show.
479
00:20:01,034 --> 00:20:03,284
Well, Nana, she needed to appeal
480
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:06,078
to the 18-to-43-year-old
group more.
481
00:20:06,164 --> 00:20:09,081
And so we put her
into spandex-like fabric
482
00:20:09,167 --> 00:20:11,918
that was form-fitting as
she had a great figure.
483
00:20:12,003 --> 00:20:13,836
It's not necessarily
comfortable.
484
00:20:13,963 --> 00:20:17,548
I didn't love being
in orange latex.
485
00:20:17,634 --> 00:20:19,884
Oh, I love a woman in uniform.
486
00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:21,669
But it wasn't just
Nana's uniform
487
00:20:21,763 --> 00:20:23,262
that was stretched thin.
488
00:20:23,348 --> 00:20:26,098
As season 1
turned into season 2,
489
00:20:26,184 --> 00:20:28,175
the writers were
feeling stretched as well.
490
00:20:28,269 --> 00:20:29,872
We're still trying to
repair all the damage
491
00:20:29,896 --> 00:20:31,176
your forces did
before they left.
492
00:20:31,231 --> 00:20:33,356
Because the station
didn't go anywhere,
493
00:20:33,483 --> 00:20:34,732
stories that you did last week
494
00:20:34,817 --> 00:20:36,128
were still kind of
with you this week
495
00:20:36,152 --> 00:20:37,610
'cause those people
were still here.
496
00:20:37,695 --> 00:20:39,353
And despite the
clear instructions
497
00:20:39,447 --> 00:20:42,240
from the studio regarding
serialized plot lines...
498
00:20:42,325 --> 00:20:45,025
The studio absolutely said no.
499
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,702
There was really
no way to avoid it.
500
00:20:46,829 --> 00:20:48,246
As a result,
501
00:20:48,331 --> 00:20:51,198
you had ongoing relationships
and ongoing stories
502
00:20:51,292 --> 00:20:53,125
that you had to
pay attention to.
503
00:20:53,211 --> 00:20:56,587
And despite ira clearly
starting to get his way,
504
00:20:56,673 --> 00:20:58,706
the audience wasn't so sure.
505
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,132
There were a lot of people
506
00:21:00,218 --> 00:21:01,801
who didn't like the
way it was going,
507
00:21:01,886 --> 00:21:03,552
the fact that it was serialized.
508
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,930
A defiant slap in
the face to the studio
509
00:21:06,015 --> 00:21:08,432
which promptly slapped
the show right back.
510
00:21:08,518 --> 00:21:10,351
Because as they
initially said...
511
00:21:10,436 --> 00:21:13,229
These shows were not necessarily
gonna be syndicated in order,
512
00:21:13,356 --> 00:21:15,940
and they wanted
stand-alone episodes.
513
00:21:16,025 --> 00:21:17,858
Which meant for viewers...
514
00:21:17,944 --> 00:21:19,893
Who knows when you're
going to be able see it,
515
00:21:19,988 --> 00:21:21,904
much less when
you can record it.
516
00:21:22,031 --> 00:21:23,990
Lot of the audience gave up.
517
00:21:24,075 --> 00:21:27,568
Poor ratings confirmed
Paramount's worst fears.
518
00:21:27,662 --> 00:21:29,662
The studio was concerned
about the ratings.
519
00:21:29,747 --> 00:21:31,998
They wanted something
that was equally
520
00:21:32,083 --> 00:21:35,001
and then, ideally,
surpassing "next generation."
521
00:21:35,086 --> 00:21:37,253
Well, as it happens,
522
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:41,340
"the next generation" was
ending its seven-year run,
523
00:21:41,426 --> 00:21:45,720
leaving "deep space nine"
adrift and all by its lonesome.
524
00:21:45,805 --> 00:21:47,972
[Quark] Now I know we're doomed.
525
00:21:48,057 --> 00:21:49,423
For all the fans at the time
526
00:21:49,517 --> 00:21:51,258
who loved to say,
"oh, yeah, ds9.
527
00:21:51,352 --> 00:21:53,144
It's the show that
doesn't go anywhere."
528
00:21:53,229 --> 00:21:55,062
Because there wasn't a starship,
529
00:21:55,148 --> 00:21:57,189
it had a little trouble
finding its place
530
00:21:57,275 --> 00:21:58,858
as a "Star Trek" show.
531
00:21:58,943 --> 00:22:01,694
Paramount wanted more
from its most valuable property.
532
00:22:01,779 --> 00:22:03,029
They want some change.
533
00:22:03,114 --> 00:22:04,591
They wanna see a
spike in the ratings.
534
00:22:04,615 --> 00:22:06,615
They wanna see a bigger
popularity for the series.
535
00:22:06,743 --> 00:22:09,910
They wanted to match the
success of "next generation."
536
00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:12,288
And short of importing
key personnel
537
00:22:12,415 --> 00:22:15,624
over from "the next
generation," "deep space nine"...
538
00:22:15,752 --> 00:22:18,461
Actually, maybe
they should bring
539
00:22:18,588 --> 00:22:20,065
some people over from
"the next generation."
540
00:22:20,089 --> 00:22:22,465
Like senior writer Ron Moore.
541
00:22:22,592 --> 00:22:24,383
When I came on
in the third season,
542
00:22:24,469 --> 00:22:26,844
I was really a little
burned out at tng
543
00:22:26,929 --> 00:22:28,804
by the time the show ended,
544
00:22:28,931 --> 00:22:31,891
and I was happy and grateful
to start doing something new.
545
00:22:31,976 --> 00:22:33,704
And it was a very different
challenge, you know,
546
00:22:33,728 --> 00:22:35,895
and I was really
energized by it.
547
00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:38,981
Perhaps even a little defiant,
548
00:22:39,108 --> 00:22:41,809
an issue that Rick berman,
the keeper of gene's vision,
549
00:22:41,903 --> 00:22:43,644
was more than aware of.
550
00:22:43,738 --> 00:22:46,906
You know, he knew we had
been straining at the leash
551
00:22:46,991 --> 00:22:48,816
for quite a while,
and now gene's gone,
552
00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:50,326
and I think he just sensed
553
00:22:50,453 --> 00:22:52,912
that okay, these
guys are wild people,
554
00:22:52,997 --> 00:22:54,747
and they'll, like,
just destroy this thing
555
00:22:54,832 --> 00:22:57,157
if he didn't hold
the reins really tight.
556
00:22:57,251 --> 00:23:00,336
And in Ron Moore's
first defiant act...
557
00:23:00,463 --> 00:23:02,830
They created the defiant
558
00:23:02,924 --> 00:23:05,132
so that they could go
away from the station.
559
00:23:05,218 --> 00:23:07,760
Release docking clamps.
Aft thrusters at one quarter,
560
00:23:07,845 --> 00:23:09,762
port and starboard
at station keeping.
561
00:23:09,847 --> 00:23:12,556
So "Star Trek"
pimped its own ride
562
00:23:12,642 --> 00:23:15,768
with a brand-new battleship
and a revised mission.
563
00:23:15,853 --> 00:23:18,687
Let's give sisko a ship. Let's
see him getting out there.
564
00:23:18,815 --> 00:23:20,439
The defiant was a prototype,
565
00:23:20,525 --> 00:23:22,024
the first ship in what
would have been
566
00:23:22,151 --> 00:23:23,692
a new federation battle fleet.
567
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:25,861
The ship was new,
but in launching it,
568
00:23:25,988 --> 00:23:29,198
"Star Trek" was actually
returning to its roots.
569
00:23:29,325 --> 00:23:31,117
Stand by, weapons and shields.
570
00:23:31,202 --> 00:23:32,576
Oh, look. It's the
"Star Trek" crew
571
00:23:32,662 --> 00:23:34,056
getting off on a
ship and doing stuff.
572
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,622
Well, that's the DNA
in "Star Trek" all along.
573
00:23:36,707 --> 00:23:38,999
Thank you for finally
figuring that out.
574
00:23:39,085 --> 00:23:41,585
And just to make
sure no one missed
575
00:23:41,671 --> 00:23:43,712
that "Star Trek"
was back on track,
576
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,539
producers threw in a
little shock and awe.
577
00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:46,633
Fire!
578
00:23:49,804 --> 00:23:51,971
It's got gatling gun
phasers, oh, my god.
579
00:23:52,056 --> 00:23:54,557
They may have gained
some gatling guns,
580
00:23:54,684 --> 00:23:56,642
but in season 3,
581
00:23:56,727 --> 00:24:00,721
the big gun, Michael piller,
the showrunner, would depart,
582
00:24:00,815 --> 00:24:03,983
leaving "deep space
nine's" future uncertain.
583
00:24:07,905 --> 00:24:09,842
With a new injection of
talent from the wildly popular
584
00:24:09,866 --> 00:24:11,282
"Star Trek" "the
next generation"...
585
00:24:11,367 --> 00:24:13,325
Wild. We would go crazy.
586
00:24:13,453 --> 00:24:15,661
Showrunner
Michael piller had left
587
00:24:15,788 --> 00:24:18,330
to work on other upcoming
"Star Trek" projects.
588
00:24:18,458 --> 00:24:20,749
That was good news for ira behr
589
00:24:20,835 --> 00:24:22,585
who would finally
have his chance
590
00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:24,828
to take the reins as showrunner.
591
00:24:24,922 --> 00:24:28,507
We gave more and
more input to ira behr
592
00:24:28,634 --> 00:24:30,634
who was one of our top writers.
593
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,720
So that took a lot
of the load off of us.
594
00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:35,431
Ira "the blue
beard genius" behr.
595
00:24:35,516 --> 00:24:36,849
He is phenomenal.
596
00:24:36,976 --> 00:24:39,343
You never know what
color his beard is going to be
597
00:24:39,437 --> 00:24:40,603
from day to day.
598
00:24:40,688 --> 00:24:43,355
He was beyond energized.
599
00:24:43,483 --> 00:24:45,441
He was just on fire.
600
00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:47,526
And despite his bright beard...
601
00:24:47,653 --> 00:24:49,195
As the series went on,
602
00:24:49,322 --> 00:24:50,779
they certainly went
to darker places.
603
00:24:50,865 --> 00:24:52,573
They had a lot
more shades of gray.
604
00:24:52,658 --> 00:24:56,952
Ira wanted more
warfare, more violence.
605
00:24:57,038 --> 00:24:59,497
- Aah!
- But the darker hues
606
00:24:59,582 --> 00:25:01,865
of the rejuvenated
"deep space nine"
607
00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:04,960
seem to leave its audience
in a dark place, too.
608
00:25:05,046 --> 00:25:07,880
We've added the defiant
in the mix. Ooh! Action.
609
00:25:08,007 --> 00:25:10,716
And yet the viewer numbers,
the ratings aren't going up.
610
00:25:10,843 --> 00:25:13,210
And so for season 4,
611
00:25:13,304 --> 00:25:16,096
they just brought in more
people from "the next generation."
612
00:25:16,182 --> 00:25:17,640
Michael dorn was brought over
613
00:25:17,725 --> 00:25:19,558
to try and bring over
some of that flavor.
614
00:25:19,685 --> 00:25:21,644
It must be an exciting prospect.
615
00:25:21,729 --> 00:25:24,313
They wanted to juice the
show in some capacity,
616
00:25:24,398 --> 00:25:26,106
so, you know, bring
over a tng character.
617
00:25:26,192 --> 00:25:28,192
- Look who's here.
- Unfortunately,
618
00:25:28,277 --> 00:25:30,277
klingons are not known
619
00:25:30,363 --> 00:25:33,322
for blending easily
into their environments.
620
00:25:33,407 --> 00:25:36,283
It took a little while for him
to warm up to us, you know,
621
00:25:36,369 --> 00:25:38,577
'cause he was almost
like his character.
622
00:25:38,704 --> 00:25:40,996
Like, "I will not talk to
you unless it's necessary."
623
00:25:41,082 --> 00:25:42,665
What more is there to say?
624
00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:46,544
My only fear was that they
were going to replace me
625
00:25:46,629 --> 00:25:47,962
with Michael dorn.
626
00:25:48,047 --> 00:25:50,256
I really, really
worried about that,
627
00:25:50,383 --> 00:25:52,007
and that did not happen.
628
00:25:52,093 --> 00:25:54,751
For the writers, worf
was just as unwelcome.
629
00:25:54,845 --> 00:25:57,596
I do apologize again
for the inconvenience.
630
00:25:57,723 --> 00:26:00,766
I felt the hand of the studio
forcing us to do something
631
00:26:00,893 --> 00:26:03,018
that wasn't organic to the show,
632
00:26:03,104 --> 00:26:05,596
but if they feel this strongly,
let's try to make 'em happy
633
00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:07,459
so that we could do the
things we really wanna do.
634
00:26:07,483 --> 00:26:09,163
And, okay, let's find
something interesting
635
00:26:09,235 --> 00:26:12,444
and new to do with worf that
we haven't done up until now.
636
00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:14,113
It will be a glorious adventure.
637
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,906
When worf failed to bring
638
00:26:15,992 --> 00:26:19,118
"the next generation"-level
ratings to "deep space nine"...
639
00:26:19,245 --> 00:26:20,805
It continues to
struggle in the ratings.
640
00:26:20,913 --> 00:26:23,614
Not even captain sisko's
season 4 makeover
641
00:26:23,708 --> 00:26:25,165
could bring in viewers.
642
00:26:25,251 --> 00:26:27,396
Avery was trying to find the
character at the same time,
643
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:28,794
and part of it was his look.
644
00:26:28,921 --> 00:26:30,254
I couldn't agree more.
645
00:26:30,339 --> 00:26:32,548
Ira thought really hard
646
00:26:32,633 --> 00:26:34,653
to let him shave his head
and let him have the goatee,
647
00:26:34,677 --> 00:26:38,762
because ira felt it makes
Avery comfortable in his skin.
648
00:26:38,848 --> 00:26:41,473
After all, the more
heroic the lead,
649
00:26:41,601 --> 00:26:44,310
the greater the chance
of hero-worthy ratings.
650
00:26:44,437 --> 00:26:47,396
Avery Brooks's biggest
claim to fame before ds9
651
00:26:47,481 --> 00:26:49,231
was playing hawk
on "spenser: For hire."
652
00:26:49,317 --> 00:26:50,733
The name is hawk.
653
00:26:50,818 --> 00:26:53,652
- He was a hero in my community.
- Yeah.
654
00:26:53,779 --> 00:26:56,071
I prefer the bald Avery Brooks
655
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,616
because there is
power in that baldness.
656
00:26:58,701 --> 00:27:00,409
And it gave him authority.
657
00:27:00,494 --> 00:27:02,494
There's no question
bald with the goatee
658
00:27:02,622 --> 00:27:03,654
is the best sisko.
659
00:27:03,748 --> 00:27:05,831
Well, he would say that.
660
00:27:05,958 --> 00:27:07,666
There's no guarantee of that!
661
00:27:07,793 --> 00:27:11,920
"Deep space nine" had weathered
four years of disappointment,
662
00:27:12,006 --> 00:27:14,331
and neither worf's
whimsical ways,
663
00:27:14,425 --> 00:27:18,344
captain sisko's shiny
head, nor ira's blue beard
664
00:27:18,471 --> 00:27:22,848
were enough to stop "Star
Trek" trying one last thing.
665
00:27:22,975 --> 00:27:26,727
Unfortunately, it had nothing
to do with "deep space nine."
666
00:27:26,812 --> 00:27:28,646
They got busy
with the next show.
667
00:27:28,731 --> 00:27:32,775
Paramount had already begun
developing "Star Trek voyager,"
668
00:27:32,860 --> 00:27:35,319
putting ds9 further
in the shade.
669
00:27:35,404 --> 00:27:37,321
Well, we were never
the shiny new thing,
670
00:27:37,406 --> 00:27:38,947
so the idea of
"voyager" coming along
671
00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:41,283
was like, "yeah,
they're gonna try again
672
00:27:41,369 --> 00:27:42,471
'cause they didn't
get it with us."
673
00:27:42,495 --> 00:27:44,695
And because they were network,
674
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:48,332
they got more money,
bigger budget, better trailers,
675
00:27:48,417 --> 00:27:50,250
the whole gambit.
676
00:27:50,336 --> 00:27:51,919
Their craft service was amazing.
677
00:27:52,004 --> 00:27:54,880
I mean, everything that could
be better was better for "voyager."
678
00:27:55,007 --> 00:27:56,610
We were sitting there
like, "wait a minute.
679
00:27:56,634 --> 00:27:57,986
We've been here for,
you know, all this time.
680
00:27:58,010 --> 00:27:59,488
How come we didn't get
the brand-new trailers?"
681
00:27:59,512 --> 00:28:01,512
Not everything was better.
682
00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:04,014
But let's not get
ahead of ourselves.
683
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:06,975
Producer ira behr felt his
show had been abandoned
684
00:28:07,061 --> 00:28:08,894
by Paramount brass
685
00:28:09,021 --> 00:28:12,398
and left to fend for
itself in the war of ratings.
686
00:28:12,525 --> 00:28:15,442
He just felt like "voyager"
was getting all the attention
687
00:28:15,528 --> 00:28:17,111
for being a "network" show.
688
00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:21,031
He felt like no one was
paying attention to little ds9.
689
00:28:21,117 --> 00:28:24,410
Oh. No one is paying
attention, you say?
690
00:28:24,537 --> 00:28:27,404
With Paramount no longer
breathing down its neck,
691
00:28:27,498 --> 00:28:31,542
ds9 had a unique
opportunity to spread its wings.
692
00:28:31,627 --> 00:28:34,169
At some point, Paramount
just threw up their hands.
693
00:28:34,255 --> 00:28:36,088
Paramount left us alone.
694
00:28:36,215 --> 00:28:38,006
"The show's still dark.
The ratings are okay.
695
00:28:38,092 --> 00:28:39,758
They're never gonna
pick up the ratings.
696
00:28:39,885 --> 00:28:42,010
Ah, whatever. Let 'em
do whatever they want."
697
00:28:42,096 --> 00:28:43,532
And they just started
leaving us alone.
698
00:28:43,556 --> 00:28:48,308
Ds9 got to do pretty
much what it wanted to do.
699
00:28:48,394 --> 00:28:50,769
With a free hand creatively,
700
00:28:50,896 --> 00:28:53,689
ds9 was able to ask
questions of itself,
701
00:28:53,774 --> 00:28:56,567
of "Star Trek," and
ultimately of its audience.
702
00:28:56,652 --> 00:28:59,945
For example, in the episode
"far beyond the stars,"
703
00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:03,031
they asked a lot of questions.
704
00:29:03,117 --> 00:29:05,784
That was one of the
most special episodes.
705
00:29:05,911 --> 00:29:09,163
Take a look at these readings.
706
00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:13,125
[Boy] Are you gonna
buy that or not?
707
00:29:13,252 --> 00:29:14,710
It was a period piece.
708
00:29:14,795 --> 00:29:16,235
We're talking about
police brutality.
709
00:29:16,297 --> 00:29:18,547
Stop it! Stop it!
710
00:29:18,632 --> 00:29:20,799
This was a special
subject matter
711
00:29:20,926 --> 00:29:22,904
that you wanted to make
sure you were getting right.
712
00:29:22,928 --> 00:29:27,556
[Sobbing] I am a
human being, damn it.
713
00:29:27,641 --> 00:29:29,911
In case you haven't been
paying attention to the headlines,
714
00:29:29,935 --> 00:29:31,301
but it hasn't gone away.
715
00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:33,437
"Star Trek" is the future,
716
00:29:33,522 --> 00:29:36,565
and that means that these
people were writing these.
717
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:40,360
They are hopeful in
heart that the future,
718
00:29:40,446 --> 00:29:42,321
people will eventually
see the world
719
00:29:42,448 --> 00:29:43,980
the way the world truly is.
720
00:29:44,074 --> 00:29:46,116
Things are going to
change. They have to.
721
00:29:46,202 --> 00:29:48,744
This was the original
"Star Trek" ethos
722
00:29:48,829 --> 00:29:51,655
of infinite diversity,
warts and all.
723
00:29:51,749 --> 00:29:54,792
The world full of people
who have red skin,
724
00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:57,836
brown skin, black
skin, and white skin.
725
00:29:57,963 --> 00:30:00,831
And if any skin I left
out, that's in that, too.
726
00:30:00,925 --> 00:30:02,591
But don't worry.
727
00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:04,635
Ira, Ron, and the
writers were not done yet.
728
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,221
Let's push further than
anyone thinks we can.
729
00:30:07,306 --> 00:30:09,223
Let's challenge
what "Star Trek" is.
730
00:30:09,308 --> 00:30:10,599
How good is the federation?
731
00:30:10,684 --> 00:30:12,509
Don't they have
their own problems?
732
00:30:12,603 --> 00:30:15,163
What happens when they face
this kind of crisis? What about this?
733
00:30:18,442 --> 00:30:19,753
With ira behr in
the driver's seat...
734
00:30:19,777 --> 00:30:21,485
That's when we really
started to feel like
735
00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:25,030
we were a sailing ship
and ira was at the wheel.
736
00:30:25,115 --> 00:30:27,699
A wheel that ira had been
spinning in the background
737
00:30:27,785 --> 00:30:30,619
for quite a while,
because if you remember...
738
00:30:30,746 --> 00:30:32,788
Ira got very involved
739
00:30:32,915 --> 00:30:38,001
in wanting to do long
strings of continuing episodes.
740
00:30:38,087 --> 00:30:41,129
The studio absolutely said no.
741
00:30:41,257 --> 00:30:43,290
But with the studio's
attention elsewhere,
742
00:30:43,384 --> 00:30:45,759
ira really only had
Rick to convince.
743
00:30:45,845 --> 00:30:47,469
That wouldn't be too
much of a problem.
744
00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:50,130
Ira was really good at pulling
the wool over your eyes.
745
00:30:50,224 --> 00:30:51,431
He would say,
746
00:30:51,517 --> 00:30:54,643
"we're not gonna
have a continual,
747
00:30:54,770 --> 00:30:57,896
long series of episodes
that aren't stand-alone."
748
00:30:57,982 --> 00:31:00,473
And all of a sudden,
they would occur.
749
00:31:00,568 --> 00:31:03,068
Ira had planted the
seed of one such arc
750
00:31:03,153 --> 00:31:05,812
way back in season 2 right here.
751
00:31:05,906 --> 00:31:08,574
Let's just say if you want to do
business in the gamma quadrant,
752
00:31:08,659 --> 00:31:11,451
you have to do business
with the dominion.
753
00:31:11,537 --> 00:31:13,820
The dominion? What's that?
754
00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:16,707
With this tiny mention
of the dominion,
755
00:31:16,792 --> 00:31:19,668
ira would spawn one
of "deep space nine's"
756
00:31:19,795 --> 00:31:21,879
biggest arcing plot lines...
757
00:31:21,964 --> 00:31:23,797
You belong to the
dominion, don't you?
758
00:31:23,883 --> 00:31:25,403
Which would not
only fly in the face
759
00:31:26,719 --> 00:31:28,780
- of the network's wishes...
- These keep you strong.
760
00:31:28,804 --> 00:31:30,156
But possibly gene
roddenberry's as well.
761
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:32,347
The dominion. Rick
said so at the time.
762
00:31:32,474 --> 00:31:34,683
He said, "gene would
absolutely have killed this story."
763
00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:37,811
But we were able to get it
done, and we did talk him into it.
764
00:31:37,897 --> 00:31:40,939
And so, you know, even
though he'd draw these lines,
765
00:31:41,025 --> 00:31:42,983
he was willing to
kind of move the lines
766
00:31:43,068 --> 00:31:45,185
and move the goalpost
with us every once in a while,
767
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,854
'cause he could recognize
that this was a really good story.
768
00:31:47,948 --> 00:31:49,698
Ron Moore and ira behr
769
00:31:49,825 --> 00:31:52,525
were waging a war
on "Star Trek" tradition.
770
00:31:52,620 --> 00:31:54,703
They would push
the series' boundaries
771
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:56,363
into new territory
772
00:31:56,457 --> 00:31:58,832
with the season 6
dominion war episode
773
00:31:58,918 --> 00:32:01,868
that was unlike anything
"Star Trek" had done before.
774
00:32:01,962 --> 00:32:04,037
I can see where
it all went wrong.
775
00:32:04,131 --> 00:32:06,757
"In the pale moonlight."
It's a controversial episode.
776
00:32:06,842 --> 00:32:08,675
Michael Taylor
wrote the first draft.
777
00:32:08,761 --> 00:32:10,969
That's freelance
writer Michael Taylor
778
00:32:11,055 --> 00:32:12,971
who would later
join the writing staff.
779
00:32:13,057 --> 00:32:14,556
We were having
trouble making it work,
780
00:32:14,683 --> 00:32:16,183
and it got handed to me,
781
00:32:16,268 --> 00:32:18,143
and I came up with the
wraparound structure
782
00:32:18,228 --> 00:32:20,020
and sisko talking to the camera.
783
00:32:20,105 --> 00:32:21,688
Captain's personal log.
784
00:32:21,774 --> 00:32:23,565
Recording a captain's log.
785
00:32:23,692 --> 00:32:25,192
And then that was
gonna be the frame.
786
00:32:25,277 --> 00:32:28,561
Maybe if I just lay
it all out in my log,
787
00:32:28,656 --> 00:32:30,364
it'll finally make sense.
788
00:32:30,449 --> 00:32:33,909
Ron Moore thought the title of
the episode made sense, too,
789
00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:37,746
because everybody knows
about the pale moonlight, right?
790
00:32:37,873 --> 00:32:39,581
When I wrote that title,
791
00:32:39,708 --> 00:32:42,242
I was under the impression
that that was just a saying.
792
00:32:42,336 --> 00:32:44,628
You ever dance with the
devil in the pale moonlight?
793
00:32:44,713 --> 00:32:47,172
And everybody
kept coming up to me
794
00:32:47,257 --> 00:32:49,749
and saying, "oh, it's a
'Batman' reference?"
795
00:32:49,843 --> 00:32:52,636
And I said, "no. I mean,
no, it's not about 'Batman.'
796
00:32:52,721 --> 00:32:54,554
it's just about the
phrase, about the saying.
797
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,700
Dance with the devil
in the pale moonlight."
798
00:32:55,724 --> 00:32:57,140
And then later came to find
799
00:32:57,226 --> 00:32:58,892
that it's not really a phrase.
800
00:32:58,978 --> 00:33:01,937
It's really just something
that was said in 'Batman.'"
801
00:33:02,064 --> 00:33:03,689
I just like the sound of it.
802
00:33:03,774 --> 00:33:05,440
Whatever Ron thought it meant,
803
00:33:05,567 --> 00:33:08,235
the episode was
a radical departure
804
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,438
with "Star Trek's" heroes
taking a devilish turn.
805
00:33:11,532 --> 00:33:14,533
[Sisko's voice] I was going to
bring the romulans into the war.
806
00:33:14,618 --> 00:33:15,993
The dominion war.
807
00:33:16,078 --> 00:33:18,370
With the federation losing,
808
00:33:18,455 --> 00:33:20,789
captain sisko
conspires with garak
809
00:33:20,916 --> 00:33:23,450
in a dance of disinformation.
810
00:33:23,544 --> 00:33:25,752
It was willing to
push characters
811
00:33:25,838 --> 00:33:28,171
into darker and more
ambiguous territory
812
00:33:28,257 --> 00:33:30,007
than the other "star treks" did.
813
00:33:30,092 --> 00:33:32,459
You have sisko and
garak both engaged
814
00:33:32,553 --> 00:33:35,795
in this really untoward
tale of darkness.
815
00:33:35,889 --> 00:33:37,889
And it may be
816
00:33:37,975 --> 00:33:41,435
a very messy, very
bloody business.
817
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,355
When sisko asks him for
help, he has a pretty good idea
818
00:33:45,441 --> 00:33:47,566
of the lengths to which
garak is going to go.
819
00:33:47,651 --> 00:33:51,653
Sometimes fairness
doesn't win the day,
820
00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:54,656
and there are dirty tricks
that have to be used.
821
00:33:54,783 --> 00:33:57,484
You knew I could do those things
822
00:33:57,578 --> 00:33:59,819
that you weren't
capable of doing.
823
00:33:59,913 --> 00:34:03,498
So perhaps for the first
time in "Star Trek's" history,
824
00:34:03,625 --> 00:34:06,251
the dirty tricks weren't
being played by the villains,
825
00:34:10,591 --> 00:34:11,735
"in the pale moonlight,"
was a "Star Trek" episode
826
00:34:11,759 --> 00:34:13,091
unlike any other.
827
00:34:13,218 --> 00:34:14,858
And it is about a
disinformation campaign.
828
00:34:14,928 --> 00:34:16,608
It's about fake news
that the good guys use
829
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,838
in order to start a war,
830
00:34:18,932 --> 00:34:21,516
or a different part of the
war, with the romulans.
831
00:34:21,643 --> 00:34:24,436
Five years before
the second war in Iraq,
832
00:34:24,521 --> 00:34:26,354
"Star Trek" actually
foreshadowed
833
00:34:26,482 --> 00:34:29,107
the rise of manufactured truths.
834
00:34:29,193 --> 00:34:30,776
It's a fake.
835
00:34:30,861 --> 00:34:32,778
- It's a fake.
- It's a fake!
836
00:34:32,863 --> 00:34:34,687
It's a fake.
837
00:34:34,782 --> 00:34:39,034
We're dealing with fake
news and the use of fake news.
838
00:34:39,161 --> 00:34:41,203
How, you know,
news and information
839
00:34:41,330 --> 00:34:43,705
could be used by governments
and people in power
840
00:34:43,832 --> 00:34:45,248
to get what they wanted.
841
00:34:45,334 --> 00:34:48,460
And you don't usually
see the good guys do that
842
00:34:48,545 --> 00:34:49,795
on television.
843
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,922
And if I had to do
it all over again...
844
00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:55,175
I would.
845
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:57,427
Freed from the
traditional scruples,
846
00:34:57,513 --> 00:34:59,546
"in the pale
moonlight" took fans
847
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,057
into the darkest
territory of them all.
848
00:35:02,184 --> 00:35:04,717
Garak kills the forger. I
mean, he murders him.
849
00:35:04,812 --> 00:35:07,562
And I deliberately
played it off camera,
850
00:35:07,689 --> 00:35:10,899
because the episode as a
whole is already pretty dark.
851
00:35:11,026 --> 00:35:14,060
I'll be along shortly
to say... Hello.
852
00:35:14,154 --> 00:35:16,655
And I just sort of
had an intuitive sense
853
00:35:16,740 --> 00:35:20,325
that if I have one of our
semi-regulars who we love
854
00:35:20,410 --> 00:35:24,079
in cold blood murder
another character on camera,
855
00:35:24,206 --> 00:35:25,789
it was gonna be a whole thing.
856
00:35:25,874 --> 00:35:27,707
So I just buried
it in the story,
857
00:35:27,793 --> 00:35:29,251
and it happens off camera,
858
00:35:29,378 --> 00:35:32,879
and I just knew that that
would make it easier to slip by.
859
00:35:32,965 --> 00:35:36,842
The joy of playing garak
was derived so much
860
00:35:36,927 --> 00:35:41,421
from his lack of what we
think as being moral or ethical.
861
00:35:41,515 --> 00:35:43,807
Well, I suppose that
depends on how you look at it.
862
00:35:43,892 --> 00:35:47,352
And the captain, too, was
suddenly machiavellian,
863
00:35:47,437 --> 00:35:50,313
light-years from "Star
Trek's" original hero.
864
00:35:50,399 --> 00:35:52,190
Sisko does things in that show
865
00:35:52,276 --> 00:35:53,775
that you can't
imagine kirk doing
866
00:35:53,902 --> 00:35:55,861
or any of the other
starship captains.
867
00:35:55,946 --> 00:35:57,904
We took that
character pretty far
868
00:35:57,990 --> 00:36:00,440
and engaged in
deception and murder
869
00:36:00,534 --> 00:36:03,118
and, you know, criminality,
and all kinds of things
870
00:36:03,245 --> 00:36:04,578
in service of a higher goal,
871
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,057
and I think that's
an interesting place
872
00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:07,780
to take a character.
873
00:36:07,875 --> 00:36:09,833
And when sisko's
dance with the devil...
874
00:36:09,918 --> 00:36:12,419
- Get up!
- Spins out of control...
875
00:36:12,504 --> 00:36:14,713
- You killed him!
- He faces a reckoning.
876
00:36:14,798 --> 00:36:17,090
Sisko might have
even expected it
877
00:36:17,176 --> 00:36:18,884
to have been a worse price.
878
00:36:18,969 --> 00:36:20,969
Like, sisko might have
had a deeper, darker fear
879
00:36:21,096 --> 00:36:23,138
in the back of his head
that "once I go to garak,
880
00:36:23,265 --> 00:36:25,223
who knows what the
price is going to be?"
881
00:36:25,309 --> 00:36:28,643
You may have just saved
the entire Alpha quadrant,
882
00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:33,106
and all it cost was the
life of one romulan senator,
883
00:36:33,192 --> 00:36:35,525
one criminal,
884
00:36:35,611 --> 00:36:40,739
and the self-respect
of one starfleet officer.
885
00:36:40,824 --> 00:36:43,325
And so we see
a starfleet captain
886
00:36:43,452 --> 00:36:46,986
forced to make peace with
himself before his enemies.
887
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,999
So I will learn...
To live with it.
888
00:36:51,126 --> 00:36:53,919
At the end when he says,
"and I can live with it,"
889
00:36:54,004 --> 00:36:56,922
he can live with the fact
that he made those choices.
890
00:36:57,007 --> 00:36:59,799
That's the moral of the
story, and he embraces it,
891
00:36:59,885 --> 00:37:02,177
and he hates himself
for it at the same time.
892
00:37:02,304 --> 00:37:03,887
I can live with it.
893
00:37:03,972 --> 00:37:05,847
Someone breaks the fourth wall
894
00:37:05,974 --> 00:37:08,183
and speaks directly
into the camera,
895
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:10,018
that's the deepest you can go.
896
00:37:10,145 --> 00:37:12,187
What makes sisko
such a great leader
897
00:37:12,314 --> 00:37:15,348
is that he deliberates and
he tries to do the right thing
898
00:37:15,442 --> 00:37:18,109
even when it means that
he has to do the wrong thing.
899
00:37:18,195 --> 00:37:20,904
It's a great morality
tale of how far is too far.
900
00:37:20,989 --> 00:37:22,656
When it deals with
complex issues
901
00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:24,699
and dives into things
that are meaningful,
902
00:37:24,826 --> 00:37:26,284
that's when "Star
Trek" really works.
903
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:28,536
Only "deep space
nine" could do that,
904
00:37:28,664 --> 00:37:30,121
and I think it is one
905
00:37:30,207 --> 00:37:31,768
of the very best "deep
space nine" episodes.
906
00:37:31,792 --> 00:37:33,333
I'm very proud of that.
907
00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:35,418
But no matter how
proud or how good,
908
00:37:35,504 --> 00:37:38,129
ratings remained uneven
909
00:37:38,215 --> 00:37:41,216
as one of "Star Trek's" most
creatively ambitious chapters
910
00:37:41,343 --> 00:37:42,759
neared its end.
911
00:37:42,844 --> 00:37:44,302
We sort of knew that [bleep]
912
00:37:44,388 --> 00:37:46,554
Probably are only
gonna go one more year.
913
00:37:46,682 --> 00:37:49,057
Tng got seven years.
It stood to reason
914
00:37:49,184 --> 00:37:51,643
that we probably weren't
gonna get more than seven years
915
00:37:51,728 --> 00:37:54,854
'cause we weren't ratings-wise
as successful as they were.
916
00:37:54,940 --> 00:37:56,564
With the end in sight,
917
00:37:56,692 --> 00:37:59,526
they began tying
up all the loose ends.
918
00:37:59,611 --> 00:38:02,112
You're trying to give these
actors a satisfying end.
919
00:38:02,197 --> 00:38:04,531
It was a melancholy
sadness to it.
920
00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:06,678
Next year's your senior
year, and that's gonna be it.
921
00:38:06,702 --> 00:38:08,034
All the pieces were in place
922
00:38:09,538 --> 00:38:11,099
for "deep space nine's"
seventh and last season
923
00:38:11,123 --> 00:38:13,406
to go out with a bang.
924
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,292
Unfortunately,
925
00:38:15,377 --> 00:38:18,670
before they could even
start, there was a bombshell.
926
00:38:18,755 --> 00:38:21,006
Heading into its final season,
927
00:38:21,091 --> 00:38:23,341
"deep space nine"
was dealing with the loss
928
00:38:23,427 --> 00:38:24,843
of a key cast member.
929
00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:28,096
Dax would not see
a seventh season.
930
00:38:28,223 --> 00:38:29,514
You go into a seventh season.
931
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:31,077
You know it's gonna
be your last season,
932
00:38:31,101 --> 00:38:33,685
so the network isn't gonna
start throwing more money at you
933
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:35,937
because this is it,
so she got squeezed.
934
00:38:36,064 --> 00:38:37,522
Unimpressed with her offer,
935
00:38:37,607 --> 00:38:40,266
actress Terry
Farrell checked out
936
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,029
and Nicole De boer wormed
her way in, so to speak,
937
00:38:44,114 --> 00:38:45,488
as the same character
938
00:38:45,574 --> 00:38:47,282
but, of course, in
a different body.
939
00:38:47,409 --> 00:38:49,776
Basically, an alien
slug named Dax
940
00:38:49,870 --> 00:38:53,413
found a new alien host,
and Nicole was that alien.
941
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:56,041
It's me. Dax.
942
00:38:56,126 --> 00:38:58,877
What kind of
alien is it? [Laughs]
943
00:38:58,962 --> 00:39:01,504
Because I had done
some prosthetic work before
944
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:03,298
on an episode of "outer limits."
945
00:39:03,425 --> 00:39:05,133
Which had proved to
be at the outer limits
946
00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:06,718
of Nicole's
tolerance for makeup.
947
00:39:06,803 --> 00:39:10,347
I would not probably be able
to do that on a daily basis.
948
00:39:10,432 --> 00:39:12,849
So he said, "don't worry.
It's very minimal makeup."
949
00:39:12,934 --> 00:39:14,976
And I said, "okay.
I'd love that."
950
00:39:15,103 --> 00:39:18,229
It's a relatively complicated,
symbiotic relationship.
951
00:39:18,315 --> 00:39:20,306
And the whole thing is
that she wasn't trained
952
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,309
to be joined, so that is going
to be complicated for her.
953
00:39:23,403 --> 00:39:25,653
People need time to
get over losing jadzia.
954
00:39:25,781 --> 00:39:28,823
But an even more complicated
relationship for worf.
955
00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:31,242
No. Of course worf wasn't
too excited about me.
956
00:39:31,328 --> 00:39:32,911
I was your wife.
957
00:39:32,996 --> 00:39:34,871
You are not jadzia.
958
00:39:34,956 --> 00:39:36,790
Now in its final season,
959
00:39:36,875 --> 00:39:39,826
the production raced to
complete its 26 episodes.
960
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,273
They're getting kind of tired.
It's, like, the seventh season.
961
00:39:42,297 --> 00:39:43,838
And the hours were grueling.
962
00:39:43,965 --> 00:39:49,168
For at least 16 hours a day
and longer, it was insane.
963
00:39:49,262 --> 00:39:50,670
There were people there
964
00:39:50,764 --> 00:39:52,284
that didn't see their
children grow up.
965
00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:55,767
And it all came together
for the very last episode.
966
00:39:55,852 --> 00:39:58,511
You always said I
look good in a tuxedo.
967
00:39:58,605 --> 00:40:00,772
They just went where
they felt the story took them
968
00:40:00,857 --> 00:40:03,015
and then finally landed
this sucker at the end
969
00:40:03,110 --> 00:40:04,776
with an amazing finale.
970
00:40:04,861 --> 00:40:07,946
Inarguably, the biggest
story arc of them all,
971
00:40:08,031 --> 00:40:10,356
teased from the
very first episode,
972
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:13,076
captain sisko finally
takes his place
973
00:40:13,161 --> 00:40:15,036
among the bajoran prophets.
974
00:40:15,163 --> 00:40:17,530
Your time of trial has ended.
975
00:40:17,624 --> 00:40:19,416
The dominion war
comes to an end,
976
00:40:19,501 --> 00:40:22,794
and the crew lit it
up for one last night.
977
00:40:22,879 --> 00:40:25,296
To the best crew
any captain ever had.
978
00:40:25,382 --> 00:40:26,589
People like myself,
979
00:40:26,675 --> 00:40:28,842
other members
of the support staff
980
00:40:28,927 --> 00:40:31,094
got to be in the episode.
981
00:40:31,179 --> 00:40:34,714
So all of us were the
extras for those scenes,
982
00:40:34,808 --> 00:40:36,716
and ira planted perfectly
983
00:40:36,810 --> 00:40:39,018
to be shot the very
last day of shooting.
984
00:40:39,104 --> 00:40:40,553
It was just an amazing day.
985
00:40:40,647 --> 00:40:42,480
This one's from the heart.
986
00:40:42,566 --> 00:40:45,066
The final episode of "Star
Trek deep space nine"
987
00:40:45,193 --> 00:40:48,570
went out on June 2, 1999,
988
00:40:48,697 --> 00:40:51,156
leaving the audience
wanting more,
989
00:40:51,241 --> 00:40:53,908
which now, thanks to
streaming, they can have.
990
00:40:54,035 --> 00:40:57,579
Ds9 has definitely
stood up over time
991
00:40:57,706 --> 00:40:59,497
more so than the other shows,
992
00:40:59,583 --> 00:41:01,833
which is ironic
because at the time,
993
00:41:01,918 --> 00:41:04,752
it was thought of
as the lesser show.
994
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,546
And as it happens,
995
00:41:06,631 --> 00:41:09,132
that controversial
serialized format
996
00:41:09,217 --> 00:41:11,593
turned out to be
ahead of its time,
997
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,137
and the vast story arc
gave the show a long life.
998
00:41:14,222 --> 00:41:16,422
Today, the definition
of the word "streaming"
999
00:41:16,516 --> 00:41:18,641
shows that people
watch these shows
1000
00:41:18,727 --> 00:41:21,895
because they are continuing
arcs, continuing storylines.
1001
00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:24,764
And "deep space nine"
is bigger than ever now.
1002
00:41:24,858 --> 00:41:26,941
It's found a whole
new following.
1003
00:41:27,068 --> 00:41:28,610
Routinely landing
1004
00:41:28,737 --> 00:41:31,613
at the top of the best
"Star Trek" series list,
1005
00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:33,740
thanks largely to
its wide-ranging
1006
00:41:33,825 --> 00:41:36,242
and eclectic storylines.
1007
00:41:36,328 --> 00:41:39,913
And now I get a lot
of transgender people
1008
00:41:39,998 --> 00:41:41,873
coming up to me
saying, you know,
1009
00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:45,543
"do you know how important
this character has been for me?
1010
00:41:45,629 --> 00:41:48,338
It was someone I could
turn to that was like me."
1011
00:41:48,423 --> 00:41:50,465
Out of the entire franchise,
1012
00:41:50,592 --> 00:41:52,800
I think "deep space
nine" was the best
1013
00:41:52,928 --> 00:41:54,293
because it dealt with issues
1014
00:41:54,387 --> 00:41:57,096
that a whole bunch
of people were facing,
1015
00:41:57,182 --> 00:41:58,473
especially people of color.
1016
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,850
With captain Benjamin sisko,
1017
00:42:00,936 --> 00:42:03,728
Avery Brooks had
made "Star Trek" history.
1018
00:42:03,813 --> 00:42:06,814
Avery. He just put his
heart and soul into it.
1019
00:42:06,942 --> 00:42:09,567
It was really stunning to watch.
1020
00:42:09,653 --> 00:42:11,736
He taught me a lot.
1021
00:42:11,821 --> 00:42:14,113
The advice that he gave me
along the way were life lessons
1022
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:17,200
that just make you a better man.
1023
00:42:17,285 --> 00:42:20,486
He, by example,
led in so many ways
1024
00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:22,580
that I believe without it,
1025
00:42:22,666 --> 00:42:24,146
I would have been
on a different path.
1026
00:42:25,627 --> 00:42:27,271
As "deep space nine"
completed its mission,
1027
00:42:27,295 --> 00:42:30,255
a new "Star Trek"
show was already on air
1028
00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:33,424
with its own first to boast of.
1029
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:36,719
I was the first female captain.
It was an established fact.
1030
00:42:36,805 --> 00:42:39,013
- You're serious.
- Very.
1031
00:42:39,140 --> 00:42:43,009
But like all firsts, this
one wouldn't come easy.
1032
00:42:43,103 --> 00:42:45,979
This was an unprecedented
moment in the history of television.82158
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.