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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,932 --> 00:00:10,000 It was on my way to college. 2 00:00:10,916 --> 00:00:12,907 My dad told me the whole story. 3 00:00:14,818 --> 00:00:18,921 He took the 4 and 1/2 hour drive to tell me, "I was a KGB spy. 4 00:00:20,755 --> 00:00:22,447 "I was sent here to get closer 5 00:00:22,546 --> 00:00:24,778 "to some important people in politics 6 00:00:25,694 --> 00:00:28,124 "and steal some information." 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,489 He told me, "I have another family in Germany 8 00:00:31,587 --> 00:00:36,568 "and I was supposed to go back, but I stayed here for you." 9 00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:40,990 My whole life was not what I thought it was. 10 00:00:44,375 --> 00:00:47,103 My dad is a criminal, that is a fact, 11 00:00:47,204 --> 00:00:50,828 and my dad has hurt a lot of people, that's another fact. 12 00:00:54,971 --> 00:00:58,038 Finding out my dad was a spy turned my life upside down. 13 00:00:59,393 --> 00:01:01,404 I've struggled with relationships 14 00:01:01,503 --> 00:01:03,794 and it's made me doubt my whole upbringing 15 00:01:03,894 --> 00:01:05,965 and who I really am as a person. 16 00:01:07,877 --> 00:01:11,322 I still have so many questions and I really wonder 17 00:01:11,422 --> 00:01:13,314 are there other children of spies out there 18 00:01:13,414 --> 00:01:15,405 who feel like I do. 19 00:01:16,441 --> 00:01:18,492 The two sons of the accused spy couple 20 00:01:18,592 --> 00:01:21,918 in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the custody of US Marshals. 21 00:01:22,018 --> 00:01:23,312 Two of the spies live here 22 00:01:23,412 --> 00:01:25,404 with their two young daughters. 23 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:29,247 Just seemed like a nice quiet family. 24 00:01:29,347 --> 00:01:31,278 I would have been discombobulated 25 00:01:31,378 --> 00:01:33,548 if I found my parents were spies. 26 00:01:33,649 --> 00:01:36,337 People think that spies are like James Bond 27 00:01:36,437 --> 00:01:38,209 and it is absolutely nothing like that. 28 00:01:38,309 --> 00:01:39,723 The day was one of mourning 29 00:01:39,823 --> 00:01:42,113 for this teenage boy whose parents were sent 30 00:01:42,213 --> 00:01:44,922 to Russia last night as he was left behind. 31 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:48,923 There are children of spies out there 32 00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:52,131 and they've really gone through some traumatic things. 33 00:01:54,641 --> 00:01:58,306 I know this because my dad was a KGB spy. 34 00:02:00,935 --> 00:02:03,942 My dad is from East Germany or former East Germany 35 00:02:04,042 --> 00:02:06,551 and he was recruited by Russian intelligence. 36 00:02:08,024 --> 00:02:10,673 His real name was Albrecht Dittrich. 37 00:02:10,773 --> 00:02:14,138 He came to America in his 30s under the name Jack Barsky. 38 00:02:14,238 --> 00:02:15,891 The Russians had stolen the identity 39 00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:17,286 of a deceased American child 40 00:02:17,386 --> 00:02:19,714 and gave the identity to my dad. 41 00:02:19,815 --> 00:02:21,946 He worked at MetLife as an executive 42 00:02:22,046 --> 00:02:23,938 and he stole American information technology 43 00:02:24,037 --> 00:02:26,029 for the KGB. 44 00:02:27,981 --> 00:02:31,426 My dad met my mother who is an immigrant from Guyana. 45 00:02:31,525 --> 00:02:33,976 They got married and raised my younger brother Jessie and I 46 00:02:34,076 --> 00:02:36,066 in a Pennsylvania suburb. 47 00:02:36,944 --> 00:02:40,290 When I see in the current news about spies, 48 00:02:41,364 --> 00:02:43,536 I'm not really surprised. 49 00:02:43,636 --> 00:02:44,769 There are spies everywhere. 50 00:02:44,870 --> 00:02:46,762 But you don't really hear the stories 51 00:02:46,862 --> 00:02:48,853 of the loved ones of spies. 52 00:02:49,251 --> 00:02:53,692 The fact that my father was a spy tore my family apart 53 00:02:53,793 --> 00:02:55,484 and it completely changed my worldview 54 00:02:55,584 --> 00:02:58,154 and everything I knew about my life. 55 00:02:58,246 --> 00:03:00,046 It was always really hard for me to figure out 56 00:03:00,047 --> 00:03:04,209 who I really am because I didn't have all 57 00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:07,834 of the information that I wanted about my dad and his past. 58 00:03:08,164 --> 00:03:10,084 I have always wondered if there were other people 59 00:03:10,085 --> 00:03:12,137 out there like me. 60 00:03:12,237 --> 00:03:15,802 As a child, I always felt like there was something missing 61 00:03:15,901 --> 00:03:18,172 and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. 62 00:03:20,084 --> 00:03:23,210 I noticed some weird things growing up, 63 00:03:23,311 --> 00:03:25,303 things that I questioned. 64 00:03:27,892 --> 00:03:30,561 We had a house next door when we lived in Pennsylvania. 65 00:03:31,954 --> 00:03:35,440 I never saw anyone come in or out of the house. 66 00:03:35,540 --> 00:03:37,311 The blinds were always shut. 67 00:03:37,412 --> 00:03:39,941 The grass was always perfectly cut. 68 00:03:40,041 --> 00:03:41,641 There was a clothesline out there as well 69 00:03:41,674 --> 00:03:44,103 and I never saw any clothes on the clothesline. 70 00:03:45,377 --> 00:03:48,246 I just had a funny feeling about that house, 71 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,871 a feeling that I was being watched. 72 00:03:54,859 --> 00:03:57,586 It wasn't until many years later that I found out 73 00:03:57,686 --> 00:04:00,475 that the FBI had bought that little blue house next door. 74 00:04:15,890 --> 00:04:18,696 It's been years since I've been back to my childhood home 75 00:04:18,797 --> 00:04:21,845 in Pennsylvania where the FBI caught up with my dad. 76 00:04:22,343 --> 00:04:24,337 My old house. 77 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,106 There's the house that the FBI bought. 78 00:04:33,934 --> 00:04:36,923 Joe Reilly is the FBI agent that caught my dad. 79 00:04:38,954 --> 00:04:40,805 And it just so turns out he's now one 80 00:04:40,906 --> 00:04:42,439 of my dad's good friends. 81 00:04:42,539 --> 00:04:43,499 Hi, Chelsea, how are you? 82 00:04:43,574 --> 00:04:44,271 How are you? 83 00:04:44,324 --> 00:04:46,004 It's been a while. - It's been a few years. 84 00:04:46,005 --> 00:04:48,574 As long as I've known Joe, I've never sat down 85 00:04:48,623 --> 00:04:50,903 with him one on one to talk to him about the investigation 86 00:04:50,904 --> 00:04:52,518 on my dad. 87 00:04:52,617 --> 00:04:53,417 When you lived here, 88 00:04:53,495 --> 00:04:55,184 I remember the first time I saw you. 89 00:04:55,284 --> 00:04:58,393 You were this high and your dad was teaching you 90 00:04:58,494 --> 00:04:59,907 to play basketball in the, 91 00:05:00,008 --> 00:05:01,999 Yeah. in the driveway. 92 00:05:03,234 --> 00:05:05,565 And it was amazing how much 93 00:05:05,662 --> 00:05:08,670 I could learn just by watching you. 94 00:05:08,771 --> 00:05:12,056 I really could see that your dad loved you 95 00:05:12,157 --> 00:05:13,968 and he was very attentive. 96 00:05:14,069 --> 00:05:16,877 How did you guys find out about my dad? 97 00:05:16,975 --> 00:05:20,781 We found out through a defector source, 98 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:24,307 a man who worked for the KGB in Moscow. 99 00:05:24,405 --> 00:05:28,568 We didn't know about him at all until we got information, 100 00:05:28,669 --> 00:05:31,557 fragments of information from the defector. 101 00:05:31,655 --> 00:05:33,826 We didn't know where he was in the country, 102 00:05:33,927 --> 00:05:35,918 but we narrowed it down to here. 103 00:05:39,743 --> 00:05:42,730 And when we realised we found the right guy, 104 00:05:43,845 --> 00:05:47,131 then it intensified and we started surveillance. 105 00:05:52,807 --> 00:05:56,134 We would surveil from the windows there. 106 00:05:56,231 --> 00:05:59,001 You guys bought the house? 107 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,913 Yeah. 108 00:06:01,014 --> 00:06:03,760 We used the house probably well over a year. 109 00:06:06,510 --> 00:06:09,259 Your dad used to come out and jog down the road. 110 00:06:11,211 --> 00:06:13,201 We would surveil. 111 00:06:14,236 --> 00:06:18,121 I could sit up in that area because that was wide open. 112 00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:19,595 Yeah. 113 00:06:19,696 --> 00:06:21,985 I was pretending to be a birdwatcher 114 00:06:22,086 --> 00:06:24,972 and I had books on ornithology and I had a telescope 115 00:06:25,371 --> 00:06:29,275 and I just sat there when I knew you guys would be outside. 116 00:06:30,669 --> 00:06:33,239 When I found out that the FBI was living next door 117 00:06:33,338 --> 00:06:35,228 to our house in Pennsylvania, 118 00:06:35,329 --> 00:06:36,784 I was completely blown away by that 119 00:06:36,881 --> 00:06:38,876 'cause we never noticed it. 120 00:06:40,948 --> 00:06:44,391 I couldn't believe that they went to such great lengths 121 00:06:44,491 --> 00:06:46,482 to keep eyes on my dad. 122 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:51,902 You were away one weekend, your whole family. 123 00:06:52,003 --> 00:06:54,491 We had our technical team go in 124 00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:56,743 and they put microphones in the kitchen 125 00:06:58,374 --> 00:07:01,382 and in the family room so we could hear 126 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,214 your dad's conversations. 127 00:07:03,311 --> 00:07:05,523 What were you looking for, like an admission? 128 00:07:05,624 --> 00:07:06,320 Yes. 129 00:07:06,421 --> 00:07:08,470 And we got that about, oh, 130 00:07:08,571 --> 00:07:10,960 just a few weeks after we put the microphones in. 131 00:07:12,234 --> 00:07:14,406 Your dad and your mother had a conversation 132 00:07:14,507 --> 00:07:17,017 in the kitchen about his origin. 133 00:07:18,291 --> 00:07:20,541 Your mother was expressing her disappointment 134 00:07:20,642 --> 00:07:22,753 in not knowing who he really was. 135 00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:26,676 And that's when he told her the truth? 136 00:07:26,777 --> 00:07:28,268 Yeah, he told her everything. 137 00:07:28,368 --> 00:07:31,335 He really didn't think he was gonna get caught out here. 138 00:07:31,436 --> 00:07:32,411 No, he didn't. 139 00:07:32,512 --> 00:07:34,604 He had been here so long. 140 00:07:34,701 --> 00:07:36,393 In fact, when we arrested him, 141 00:07:36,494 --> 00:07:39,582 one of the first things he said to us was, 142 00:07:39,683 --> 00:07:40,896 "What took you so long?" 143 00:07:51,631 --> 00:07:54,997 Our goal was to recruit him, not to put him in prison, 144 00:07:55,097 --> 00:07:58,265 but to get him to work with us. 145 00:07:58,364 --> 00:08:01,491 It's really fascinating to listen to the details 146 00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:03,361 of the investigation of my dad, 147 00:08:03,462 --> 00:08:06,587 but there's an emotional side of this that has never really 148 00:08:06,688 --> 00:08:08,680 been discussed in my family. 149 00:08:11,549 --> 00:08:15,332 And I want to know if there's others out there like me. 150 00:08:23,337 --> 00:08:25,329 Dad. 151 00:08:25,808 --> 00:08:28,616 Oh boy, it's been a while huh? 152 00:08:28,717 --> 00:08:30,170 Like two years? 153 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:33,156 We've been living on different parts of the country 154 00:08:33,254 --> 00:08:36,106 and haven't had time to physically get together. 155 00:08:36,204 --> 00:08:39,012 So, I'm really looking forward to sitting down with him 156 00:08:39,111 --> 00:08:40,167 and talking about the past 157 00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:42,039 and I have some questions for him too. 158 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:44,430 It's been too long, but you know, you're over there, 159 00:08:44,530 --> 00:08:46,741 I'm over there, then you moved there, and I moved here, 160 00:08:46,839 --> 00:08:49,011 and you got that adventurous gene. 161 00:08:49,111 --> 00:08:50,444 You don't mind leaving. 162 00:08:50,545 --> 00:08:52,396 A lot of people have a problem leaving. 163 00:08:52,497 --> 00:08:53,313 I never had it. 164 00:08:53,414 --> 00:08:56,619 I can pick up and go tomorrow someplace. 165 00:08:56,718 --> 00:09:01,039 If given an opportunity to move to a new country, 166 00:09:01,141 --> 00:09:03,151 and I'm told, okay, you have to leave everything 167 00:09:03,251 --> 00:09:05,103 and everyone behind, you can never see them 168 00:09:05,195 --> 00:09:06,635 or talk to them again, I would do it. 169 00:09:06,636 --> 00:09:07,972 And I wouldn't feel bad about it. 170 00:09:08,071 --> 00:09:09,763 And that kinda scares me a little bit. 171 00:09:09,865 --> 00:09:11,914 Because your attachments 172 00:09:12,016 --> 00:09:14,206 aren't strong enough to keep you someplace. 173 00:09:15,081 --> 00:09:17,012 And I had the same thing going. 174 00:09:17,111 --> 00:09:18,805 I had some attachments, 175 00:09:18,905 --> 00:09:21,853 but in the end, the adventure was more important. 176 00:09:22,651 --> 00:09:24,641 It was, you know, just, I couldn't resist. 177 00:09:25,677 --> 00:09:27,847 So is that why you became a spy? 178 00:09:27,949 --> 00:09:31,155 The KGB was the most powerful single organisation 179 00:09:31,254 --> 00:09:33,067 on the planet and they wanted me. 180 00:09:33,165 --> 00:09:37,088 Boy, that flatters you doesn't it, right? 181 00:09:37,188 --> 00:09:40,914 It was powerful enough to make me say goodbye 182 00:09:41,012 --> 00:09:44,818 to everything and everybody I knew, my entire past. 183 00:09:44,917 --> 00:09:47,126 I'm sure you could do the same thing. 184 00:09:47,628 --> 00:09:49,618 I think it might be genetic. 185 00:09:50,415 --> 00:09:51,311 I'm 30 years old now 186 00:09:51,411 --> 00:09:55,574 and I don't feel capable of having kids 187 00:09:55,673 --> 00:09:59,636 because I know with my ability to disconnect emotionally 188 00:09:59,637 --> 00:10:01,646 even though I feel like I have a lot of love to give 189 00:10:01,647 --> 00:10:03,641 and I feel like I would be nurturing, 190 00:10:04,635 --> 00:10:08,359 it's not gonna be easy for me to overcome that 191 00:10:08,459 --> 00:10:09,356 with my own family. 192 00:10:09,455 --> 00:10:12,603 And I feel so terrified that I would repeat that. 193 00:10:15,624 --> 00:10:16,544 It's one of the things. 194 00:10:16,545 --> 00:10:17,978 You know, people who are not as strong as you 195 00:10:17,979 --> 00:10:20,508 and me have a hard time dealing with that kind of stuff. 196 00:10:20,611 --> 00:10:22,103 Sure, I mean, that's normal. 197 00:10:22,202 --> 00:10:23,458 We're not normal. 198 00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:25,011 No, we're not. 199 00:10:25,111 --> 00:10:27,103 I don't know what normal means. 200 00:10:28,497 --> 00:10:30,310 Yeah, that's nothing to be proud of either. 201 00:10:30,408 --> 00:10:32,400 We just are who we are. 202 00:10:34,234 --> 00:10:39,112 My normal is I grew up with a father who is ex-KGB. 203 00:10:39,213 --> 00:10:42,220 My normal is not knowing the answers to all the questions 204 00:10:42,319 --> 00:10:45,485 that I've been trying to find for my entire life up to now. 205 00:10:45,586 --> 00:10:48,076 That's my normal. 206 00:10:48,794 --> 00:10:51,762 I really wonder do other families of former spies 207 00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:53,554 have to go through the same thing. 208 00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:54,906 I may not have all the answers, 209 00:10:55,009 --> 00:10:57,915 but this just means I need to ask more questions. 210 00:11:03,213 --> 00:11:05,093 I wanna talk to other people who've gone through 211 00:11:05,094 --> 00:11:07,025 what I've gone through. 212 00:11:07,126 --> 00:11:09,296 Today, I'm gonna meet Robert Korczak. 213 00:11:09,398 --> 00:11:11,388 His father was a spy as well. 214 00:11:22,142 --> 00:11:24,033 I read an article about Boris and I found out 215 00:11:24,136 --> 00:11:25,748 his son Robert lives in Virginia 216 00:11:25,847 --> 00:11:27,780 and he was willing to share his story with me. 217 00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:29,690 I wanna know how his father 218 00:11:29,792 --> 00:11:31,784 being a spy has affected his life. 219 00:11:35,049 --> 00:11:39,787 Did you have any strange feelings when you were young? 220 00:11:40,626 --> 00:11:42,001 Starting when? 221 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:45,386 When my dad was active with the KGB 222 00:11:45,486 --> 00:11:49,767 or when my dad was exposed as a CIA plant? 223 00:11:49,863 --> 00:11:50,743 When did you find out? 224 00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:52,196 Seven, eight, something like that. 225 00:11:52,296 --> 00:11:54,465 Okay, so you found out young. 226 00:11:54,568 --> 00:11:56,261 How did you react? 227 00:11:56,361 --> 00:12:00,224 Well, I reacted by hiding in the foot-well of my dad's car 228 00:12:00,323 --> 00:12:03,112 as we sped through the streets of Copenhagen 229 00:12:05,063 --> 00:12:07,054 while in a car chase. 230 00:12:11,835 --> 00:12:12,890 That's how you found out? 231 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:15,640 That's when I found out something wasn't right. 232 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:16,794 Jesus. 233 00:12:16,894 --> 00:12:17,551 Yeah. 234 00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:20,660 That was my introduction to hey, your dad's a spy. 235 00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:22,967 Did someone actually tell you? 236 00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:25,061 My dad, eventually. 237 00:12:25,777 --> 00:12:28,048 It definitely became clear after he was shot. 238 00:12:30,438 --> 00:12:32,429 We're in the fruit department. 239 00:12:36,929 --> 00:12:39,419 He reaches back and he says, "Something bit me." 240 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:42,409 And he has a little bit of blood on his hand or something. 241 00:12:56,727 --> 00:13:00,690 We go home and I'm lying on the floor watching cartoons 242 00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:03,938 and my dad starts losing the ability to walk. 243 00:13:09,554 --> 00:13:11,666 He was fading in and out of consciousness. 244 00:13:15,250 --> 00:13:17,621 So, it passed eventually like a kidney stone 245 00:13:17,719 --> 00:13:20,708 which he captured in a coffee filter. 246 00:13:21,902 --> 00:13:23,157 It wasn't safe. 247 00:13:23,256 --> 00:13:25,368 I missed nine months of school after that. 248 00:13:26,602 --> 00:13:29,669 My dad's friends were obviously doing as much as they could. 249 00:13:30,705 --> 00:13:34,429 As for me, at 8 1/2, nine years old, 250 00:13:34,529 --> 00:13:37,515 I was the one carrying his nine millimetre Beretta. 251 00:13:40,386 --> 00:13:42,378 I had strict orders. 252 00:13:44,128 --> 00:13:46,121 If somebody knocks at the door, 253 00:13:46,717 --> 00:13:50,362 tell them exactly these words, I'm armed, 254 00:13:50,462 --> 00:13:51,835 I'm going to count to five 255 00:13:51,938 --> 00:13:54,027 and then I'm going to start shooting. 256 00:14:02,157 --> 00:14:04,147 - And did you ever have to... - No. 257 00:14:05,025 --> 00:14:05,745 Well, that's good. 258 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:06,596 That is fantastic, 259 00:14:06,698 --> 00:14:10,260 'cause I still have some marbles left because of that. 260 00:14:12,313 --> 00:14:14,128 I can't imagine. 261 00:14:14,227 --> 00:14:15,838 You ever feel paranoid? 262 00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:18,111 I have reoccurring nightmares. 263 00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:19,265 I have... - Me too. 264 00:14:19,365 --> 00:14:23,087 My reoccurring nightmare for decades now 265 00:14:23,188 --> 00:14:26,335 is that I'm being chased and I have a gun. 266 00:14:28,487 --> 00:14:30,756 The gun always turns into a toy. 267 00:14:35,537 --> 00:14:37,929 I have the exact same one. 268 00:14:39,959 --> 00:14:41,948 I'm always being chased. 269 00:14:42,909 --> 00:14:44,897 I need to defend myself. 270 00:14:47,048 --> 00:14:49,039 But the gun won't work. 271 00:14:51,272 --> 00:14:53,084 Exactly. 272 00:14:53,184 --> 00:14:54,384 That's really interesting that 273 00:14:54,459 --> 00:14:57,942 we have the same kind of recurring nightmare. 274 00:14:58,044 --> 00:15:03,140 Do you feel like, 'cause I feel like I have some traits 275 00:15:04,015 --> 00:15:06,907 that would allow me to do what my dad did. 276 00:15:07,006 --> 00:15:10,291 It scares me a little bit, it's like I could absolutely 277 00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:13,041 right now leave everything behind 278 00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:15,907 and move to another country and not feel bad about it. 279 00:15:16,006 --> 00:15:18,974 You've been keeping people at an arm's length. 280 00:15:19,073 --> 00:15:19,772 Yes. 281 00:15:19,871 --> 00:15:24,772 We are outsiders because there are no kids like us. 282 00:15:25,967 --> 00:15:27,958 We're always gonna be outsiders. 283 00:15:29,032 --> 00:15:31,285 This is why I wanted to meet other people 284 00:15:31,383 --> 00:15:33,313 that share the same thing, 285 00:15:33,414 --> 00:15:35,823 'cause I thought I was the only one. 286 00:15:35,926 --> 00:15:40,904 It is very difficult to have nobody to relate to 287 00:15:41,698 --> 00:15:43,692 about this stuff. 288 00:15:44,448 --> 00:15:48,150 And that's the life of a spy's kid. 289 00:15:54,327 --> 00:15:56,320 I wasn't expecting that. 290 00:15:56,835 --> 00:15:58,830 It's the truth. 291 00:15:59,862 --> 00:16:01,835 More similarities than I thought there would be. 292 00:16:01,936 --> 00:16:03,269 - Me too. - Really? 293 00:16:03,371 --> 00:16:04,981 I'm pretty surprised. 294 00:16:05,083 --> 00:16:08,048 I felt a lot less alone after talking to Robert. 295 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:12,448 It was like looking in a mirror and he understood me 296 00:16:14,006 --> 00:16:15,977 on a different level than anybody else. 297 00:16:16,073 --> 00:16:17,967 Give me a hug. 298 00:16:18,067 --> 00:16:18,842 Hang in there. 299 00:16:18,945 --> 00:16:21,115 Really confirmed that there's others out there like me 300 00:16:21,212 --> 00:16:22,669 and I don't have to feel alone 301 00:16:22,765 --> 00:16:24,761 in my conflict with my identity. 302 00:16:26,036 --> 00:16:28,683 I'm going to find other children of spies 303 00:16:28,782 --> 00:16:30,775 and hear their stories. 304 00:16:36,074 --> 00:16:38,124 Today, I'm meeting with my mom. 305 00:16:38,224 --> 00:16:40,753 Since my conversation with my dad the other day, 306 00:16:40,855 --> 00:16:43,384 I really just wanted to talk to my mom. 307 00:16:43,483 --> 00:16:45,257 I've made it a point to go visit her 308 00:16:45,355 --> 00:16:47,845 and try to maintain a relationship with her. 309 00:16:47,941 --> 00:16:49,797 But it's always been difficult. 310 00:16:49,893 --> 00:16:51,887 How are you? - I'm good. 311 00:16:52,326 --> 00:16:54,974 Got to talk to dad the other day, got to go see him. 312 00:16:55,074 --> 00:16:55,730 Really? 313 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:57,350 It had been awhile since I've seen him. 314 00:16:57,422 --> 00:16:58,836 And what did you ask him? 315 00:16:58,892 --> 00:17:00,092 We just had a good conversation 316 00:17:00,093 --> 00:17:02,124 relating to his life as a spy. 317 00:17:02,882 --> 00:17:07,322 Did he tell you the truth about things? 318 00:17:07,425 --> 00:17:08,280 Yeah. 319 00:17:08,379 --> 00:17:09,271 All right. 320 00:17:09,376 --> 00:17:11,367 Why, you don't think he's telling the truth? 321 00:17:13,041 --> 00:17:15,030 Not all the time. 322 00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:17,242 My parents are divorced now. 323 00:17:17,341 --> 00:17:20,110 My mom has never really forgiven my dad for being a spy 324 00:17:20,208 --> 00:17:22,697 and flipping her life upside down. 325 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,408 Different times, different things happened 326 00:17:25,509 --> 00:17:26,763 that you didn't know. 327 00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:28,275 Like what? 328 00:17:28,376 --> 00:17:30,545 When I got pregnant with you, 329 00:17:30,646 --> 00:17:35,047 he wasn't really interested in having a family. 330 00:17:35,147 --> 00:17:37,716 So, I said, "If you're not interested in having the baby, 331 00:17:37,817 --> 00:17:41,360 "I'll take my baby home to my mom in Guyana." 332 00:17:42,397 --> 00:17:43,092 For how long? 333 00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:45,184 After my two weeks vacation was up, 334 00:17:46,179 --> 00:17:50,763 I brought you back and he came to pick me up at the airport. 335 00:17:52,745 --> 00:17:57,387 And he says, "Why did you bring the baby back?" 336 00:17:57,483 --> 00:17:58,696 - Really? - Yes. 337 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,771 Hmm. 338 00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:02,962 So, do you believe that or? 339 00:18:03,062 --> 00:18:04,315 I believe anything you tell me. 340 00:18:04,416 --> 00:18:06,146 Okay, so that's what he told me 341 00:18:06,246 --> 00:18:08,757 and your father probably twist it. 342 00:18:09,715 --> 00:18:11,904 So you think everyone's against you. 343 00:18:17,041 --> 00:18:18,657 My mother and I have always 344 00:18:18,754 --> 00:18:21,683 had a very strained relationship. 345 00:18:21,783 --> 00:18:23,235 She really does not like the fact 346 00:18:23,337 --> 00:18:25,704 that I have a good relationship with my dad. 347 00:18:25,804 --> 00:18:28,771 Why didn't he ever say to me in any kind of moments 348 00:18:28,871 --> 00:18:31,322 this is the situation, I really need to tell you something. 349 00:18:31,425 --> 00:18:34,110 I have a wife in Germany, I have two children there. 350 00:18:34,212 --> 00:18:36,300 He never said any of that. 351 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,610 I think my mom is just gonna hold onto that pain 352 00:18:38,712 --> 00:18:41,840 and suffering and she's never gonna let it go. 353 00:18:41,937 --> 00:18:44,904 This is why I don't wanna talk to you about this 354 00:18:45,008 --> 00:18:47,817 because your father like to use his profession 355 00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:52,075 and his smarts and use it on people around him. 356 00:18:52,175 --> 00:18:54,186 One thing I wish I could get across to my mom 357 00:18:54,287 --> 00:18:56,657 is that I'm not choosing sides. 358 00:18:56,758 --> 00:18:59,229 And that I love her just the same as I love my dad. 359 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,046 And I just want her to move on and be happy again. 360 00:19:11,666 --> 00:19:13,121 10 Russian intelligence officers 361 00:19:13,219 --> 00:19:16,662 have been arrested allegedly for spying on the US. 362 00:19:16,766 --> 00:19:20,132 In 2010, the FBI busted a sleeper cell of Russian spies 363 00:19:20,229 --> 00:19:22,362 who were living in the United States. 364 00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:24,391 They posed as ordinary Americans 365 00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:26,883 while secretly feeding information over to Moscow. 366 00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:30,408 Some of them, like Richard and Cynthia Murphy 367 00:19:30,508 --> 00:19:32,277 were married couples who had children born 368 00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,033 in the United States. 369 00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:36,142 Some reports said that the marriages were arranged 370 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,490 by the Russian government and that they had kids 371 00:19:38,594 --> 00:19:41,920 to help their cover as regular American families. 372 00:19:42,017 --> 00:19:44,071 I can't imagine finding out that your own birth 373 00:19:44,171 --> 00:19:46,162 was part of a spy operation. 374 00:19:47,237 --> 00:19:49,967 The US government deported the 10 spies to Russia 375 00:19:50,066 --> 00:19:52,795 in exchange for Western spies being held in Moscow. 376 00:19:52,892 --> 00:19:55,181 I watched all of this news unfold just a few years 377 00:19:55,283 --> 00:19:57,853 after my dad told me that he was a Russian spy. 378 00:19:57,950 --> 00:20:00,821 So my first thought was, what happened to the kids? 379 00:20:01,975 --> 00:20:03,266 The day was one of mourning 380 00:20:03,371 --> 00:20:04,979 for this teenage boy whose parents 381 00:20:05,083 --> 00:20:06,653 were sent to Russia last night 382 00:20:06,757 --> 00:20:08,525 as he was left behind. 383 00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:11,275 Juan Lazaro Jr had no idea his parents were spies 384 00:20:11,374 --> 00:20:12,694 and when they were sent to Russia, 385 00:20:12,766 --> 00:20:14,304 he decided to stay in New York. 386 00:20:14,402 --> 00:20:15,854 I tried reaching out to Juan 387 00:20:15,958 --> 00:20:18,228 but he won't return my calls or emails. 388 00:20:19,141 --> 00:20:21,315 The Murphys, two young children, returned to Russia 389 00:20:21,412 --> 00:20:23,844 with their parents where they were repatriated. 390 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,129 Then there was Tim Foley who returned to Russia 391 00:20:27,229 --> 00:20:29,278 with his parents and brother. 392 00:20:29,382 --> 00:20:31,950 Foley was actually his mom's cover name. 393 00:20:32,046 --> 00:20:34,219 In 2010, he was given a Russian passport 394 00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:36,171 with the name Timofei Vavilov, 395 00:20:36,269 --> 00:20:38,603 which was his mom's real last name. 396 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,028 And that really struck me because 10 years ago 397 00:20:41,132 --> 00:20:43,816 I made the decision to change my name from Chelsea Barsky 398 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,892 to Chelsea Dittrich. 399 00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:47,681 Dittrich was my dad's real last name. 400 00:20:47,783 --> 00:20:50,074 Barsky was just a name that the KGB stole 401 00:20:50,171 --> 00:20:51,150 and gave to my dad. 402 00:20:51,246 --> 00:20:54,452 Out of respect for the real Jack Barsky and his family, 403 00:20:54,554 --> 00:20:57,758 I just didn't think it made sense to hold onto the name. 404 00:20:57,862 --> 00:20:59,989 And you know, under normal circumstances 405 00:21:00,091 --> 00:21:03,496 I would have been given the Dittrich name. 406 00:21:03,595 --> 00:21:06,525 I was not in normal circumstances obviously. 407 00:21:06,624 --> 00:21:10,687 So, I was given the false name. 408 00:21:12,719 --> 00:21:15,287 My dad's real name is Albrecht Dittrich 409 00:21:15,385 --> 00:21:18,711 and even though he does not use it legally, 410 00:21:18,815 --> 00:21:22,496 it was really important for me to have that emotional tie 411 00:21:22,595 --> 00:21:24,586 to his real name. 412 00:21:29,429 --> 00:21:32,437 I'm going to see my dad today at his house in Atlanta. 413 00:21:32,537 --> 00:21:35,746 Really just wanna know what he really did as a spy. 414 00:21:35,844 --> 00:21:38,490 Why do you have this stupid rock here? 415 00:21:38,594 --> 00:21:40,083 Why is the rock stupid? 416 00:21:40,084 --> 00:21:41,102 Let me tell you what that is. 417 00:21:41,103 --> 00:21:41,796 It's a rock. 418 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,306 Well no, no, this is a paperweight. 419 00:21:44,408 --> 00:21:46,854 That's sort of a memory from the past 420 00:21:46,958 --> 00:21:49,306 that I actually made myself. 421 00:21:53,690 --> 00:21:58,371 That is a replica of a container that I actually used 422 00:21:58,469 --> 00:22:02,295 for handing over material to my handlers. 423 00:22:04,922 --> 00:22:07,911 It's called a container for a dead drop operation. 424 00:22:11,652 --> 00:22:13,981 I've now sort of come to terms with, 425 00:22:14,083 --> 00:22:15,914 okay, he was really a spy. 426 00:22:16,016 --> 00:22:18,487 But now I'm thinking, okay, how did he do it? 427 00:22:19,641 --> 00:22:22,606 Now, I literally slid into a different identity, 428 00:22:22,708 --> 00:22:25,757 you've got to believe that you are that. 429 00:22:25,854 --> 00:22:28,466 So you have to believe your lie. 430 00:22:28,566 --> 00:22:30,537 Yeah, absolutely. 431 00:22:30,633 --> 00:22:32,487 It's just weird when you look back on it. 432 00:22:32,586 --> 00:22:34,719 You blended in so well. 433 00:22:34,816 --> 00:22:37,066 It was just something I did on the side, 434 00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,778 like, you know some people play golf 435 00:22:38,882 --> 00:22:43,479 and I did secret messages and did surveillance detection. 436 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,574 It's just the funny thing is that 437 00:22:44,575 --> 00:22:47,008 it's just so like casual to you. 438 00:22:48,155 --> 00:22:49,555 It's very hard to get my dad to have 439 00:22:49,556 --> 00:22:51,687 an emotional conversation because my dad 440 00:22:51,787 --> 00:22:55,470 is just always in an operative mode. 441 00:22:55,571 --> 00:22:58,420 Communication from the centre that was Moscow 442 00:22:58,517 --> 00:23:00,987 to me was always through shortwave radio. 443 00:23:02,941 --> 00:23:04,516 Oh, wait a minute. 444 00:23:04,612 --> 00:23:06,604 Can you hear it? 445 00:23:07,441 --> 00:23:08,336 Oh wow. 446 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,606 Yeah, you can see that. 447 00:23:10,708 --> 00:23:12,856 And this is the fine tuning here. 448 00:23:14,729 --> 00:23:16,720 It's gone. 449 00:23:17,162 --> 00:23:19,508 Yes, this is still used today by the way. 450 00:23:20,429 --> 00:23:22,200 I tell you what I would hear normally, 451 00:23:22,297 --> 00:23:23,275 it would go... 452 00:23:27,277 --> 00:23:28,853 And for like about a half hour. 453 00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:29,766 Morse code? 454 00:23:29,865 --> 00:23:31,240 Morse code, exactly. 455 00:23:31,344 --> 00:23:34,229 So this is how you received messages from your bosses. 456 00:23:34,327 --> 00:23:37,095 Right, it's the only way, only shortwave. 457 00:23:37,199 --> 00:23:39,129 How did you send them messages? 458 00:23:39,229 --> 00:23:42,237 Sometimes I had long reports, so I wrote them 459 00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:44,325 and I photographed 'em. 460 00:23:46,917 --> 00:23:51,892 And then I handed the undeveloped film in a container 461 00:23:52,254 --> 00:23:56,135 in what's called a drop operation to a local agent. 462 00:23:56,237 --> 00:23:58,365 I gotta show you how to make one of those containers. 463 00:23:58,469 --> 00:24:00,200 You'll be surprised. 464 00:24:00,298 --> 00:24:03,702 It's so cool to learn how my dad actually did his spy job. 465 00:24:03,804 --> 00:24:07,566 It's so different than it is in the movies. 466 00:24:07,670 --> 00:24:11,036 So, what I have here is the secret piece of material 467 00:24:11,133 --> 00:24:15,975 that I wanna hand in a drop operation to a Soviet agent. 468 00:24:16,075 --> 00:24:17,048 And I wrap it. 469 00:24:17,150 --> 00:24:19,879 So now I need to put this into something 470 00:24:19,979 --> 00:24:21,969 where it looks totally innocent. 471 00:24:23,603 --> 00:24:25,496 This is the stuff you used to make the drop? 472 00:24:25,594 --> 00:24:26,929 Yeah, sure. 473 00:24:27,027 --> 00:24:28,562 Did mom ever catch you doing this? 474 00:24:28,662 --> 00:24:29,356 No. 475 00:24:29,458 --> 00:24:32,025 I did this in this one room that I told your mother, 476 00:24:32,524 --> 00:24:34,300 "That's my room, don't go in there." 477 00:24:34,399 --> 00:24:37,128 This does not require a great deal of skill. 478 00:24:37,225 --> 00:24:39,216 You need a little bit more. 479 00:24:41,608 --> 00:24:43,820 And then we make a dirty rock out of it. 480 00:24:43,917 --> 00:24:46,206 You know, the whole idea is to use something 481 00:24:46,311 --> 00:24:48,561 that's so simple that nobody could even think 482 00:24:48,658 --> 00:24:50,550 that it's something special, you know? 483 00:24:50,649 --> 00:24:54,994 Okay, so when you go and you put this rock 484 00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:59,512 at your location, if you recognise that somebody 485 00:24:59,610 --> 00:25:01,345 is following you, were you trained 486 00:25:01,446 --> 00:25:04,052 on how to evade somebody on foot? 487 00:25:04,153 --> 00:25:06,245 If I'm trying to do an operation, 488 00:25:06,345 --> 00:25:07,755 I abort the operation. 489 00:25:07,858 --> 00:25:09,470 And I don't panic. 490 00:25:09,571 --> 00:25:12,697 Next thing is I go home and see whether there was sign 491 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,129 that somebody was going through my stuff. 492 00:25:16,225 --> 00:25:18,197 And when there was clear evidence 493 00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,024 that I was being investigated, 494 00:25:21,128 --> 00:25:23,954 I had a pretty brilliant escape plan. 495 00:25:25,629 --> 00:25:30,666 I would load my bicycle into the trunk of my hatchback 496 00:25:30,764 --> 00:25:34,870 and drive to a road adjacent to a park. 497 00:25:35,907 --> 00:25:39,091 There was a bike path, maybe a quarter mile. 498 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,114 Go through that park. 499 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:45,461 Come out on the other side. 500 00:25:46,816 --> 00:25:48,786 There was a subway station. 501 00:25:48,884 --> 00:25:50,876 Dive into the subway and I'm gone. 502 00:25:51,913 --> 00:25:54,182 Go to Canada via train. 503 00:25:56,536 --> 00:25:59,259 I also had escape documents. 504 00:25:59,364 --> 00:26:00,404 They were false documents. 505 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,240 I had a Canadian passport and driver's license. 506 00:26:04,241 --> 00:26:05,535 Do you think you would have started 507 00:26:05,536 --> 00:26:07,190 over completely there and... 508 00:26:07,288 --> 00:26:10,177 No, I would have joined my family and I don't know. 509 00:26:10,278 --> 00:26:12,605 Oh, you would have used Canada to go back to Germany? 510 00:26:12,706 --> 00:26:14,699 Oh sure. 511 00:26:15,295 --> 00:26:17,228 So this is where I'm coming to terms 512 00:26:17,326 --> 00:26:19,934 with this whole thing, because that escape, 513 00:26:20,036 --> 00:26:23,302 if you had to use it and you had to go to Canada, 514 00:26:25,087 --> 00:26:26,287 we wouldn't be here right now. 515 00:26:26,288 --> 00:26:28,364 Possibly you wouldn't even be alive. 516 00:26:29,394 --> 00:26:30,374 Or, 517 00:26:30,471 --> 00:26:32,999 or we wouldn't know each other, yeah sure. 518 00:26:33,103 --> 00:26:35,211 Wow, that's just crazy. 519 00:26:40,393 --> 00:26:42,701 Yeah, I didn't expect that. 520 00:26:44,134 --> 00:26:47,499 When my dad came to the US, it wasn't really his goal 521 00:26:47,603 --> 00:26:49,095 to have a family here. 522 00:26:49,192 --> 00:26:51,045 Eventually, he was gonna go back. 523 00:26:51,144 --> 00:26:52,960 I was torn, you know, 524 00:26:53,057 --> 00:26:55,105 I have a child here and I have a family there. 525 00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:58,536 This was for my own personal self-interest. 526 00:26:58,634 --> 00:27:02,259 I should have left you and I didn't. 527 00:27:03,374 --> 00:27:05,228 If I go back, I'm a hero. 528 00:27:05,326 --> 00:27:06,817 The Russians promised me a house. 529 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,451 Everything would have been great. 530 00:27:08,552 --> 00:27:13,530 If I stay, I have possibly the FBI after me, 531 00:27:14,088 --> 00:27:16,081 the KGB after me, 532 00:27:16,681 --> 00:27:18,449 and ultimately you won. 533 00:27:18,548 --> 00:27:20,201 It was close, I have to admit it, 534 00:27:20,306 --> 00:27:22,751 it was really close, but you won. 535 00:27:22,853 --> 00:27:24,845 You and your mother. 536 00:27:26,795 --> 00:27:29,903 My dad's not perfect, but when he decided to stay, 537 00:27:30,902 --> 00:27:32,513 he gave it 100%. 538 00:27:32,613 --> 00:27:36,299 He decided to really stay and be my dad. 539 00:27:36,398 --> 00:27:40,464 And I think I just got very, very lucky in that regard. 540 00:27:45,549 --> 00:27:48,078 I met Robert Korczak, who is also the child of a spy, 541 00:27:48,175 --> 00:27:51,501 and I learned how deeply his family was also affected 542 00:27:51,606 --> 00:27:53,856 by his father's past, but I wanted to learn more. 543 00:27:53,953 --> 00:27:56,644 So I'm meeting with Robert's mom, Barbara, 544 00:27:56,741 --> 00:27:59,232 who like my mom, was also the wife of a spy. 545 00:27:59,328 --> 00:28:03,294 One thing I know about Barbara, is that she and Boris 546 00:28:03,395 --> 00:28:06,559 are still married, and they still live under 547 00:28:06,659 --> 00:28:09,107 the same roof so they have kept their family together and 548 00:28:09,211 --> 00:28:13,335 I'm really interested in knowing how she's been able 549 00:28:13,432 --> 00:28:15,232 to keep the family together despite the things 550 00:28:15,306 --> 00:28:18,074 that they've gone through as a family. 551 00:28:18,173 --> 00:28:20,345 Knowing what you knew about your husband 552 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,086 being a double agent, did you ever confront him? 553 00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:30,461 No, because his idea was that working as a double agent, 554 00:28:30,558 --> 00:28:35,359 he is working his way that we can go to the 555 00:28:35,461 --> 00:28:38,009 United States and have better life. 556 00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,163 I always felt like we'd be better, more peaceful, 557 00:28:44,266 --> 00:28:47,586 more quiet, if he had just regular job 558 00:28:47,691 --> 00:28:49,682 like everybody else. 559 00:28:50,278 --> 00:28:52,490 Why did this happen to me? 560 00:28:52,586 --> 00:28:57,566 Why just me is exposed to such a strange environment 561 00:28:58,201 --> 00:29:00,336 and strange situations. 562 00:29:00,433 --> 00:29:04,220 I didn't do anything wrong, but it just happened. 563 00:29:09,634 --> 00:29:13,558 At the same time, I felt proud of my husband 564 00:29:13,661 --> 00:29:18,058 because he was extraordinary. 565 00:29:18,161 --> 00:29:20,288 He was not like everybody else. 566 00:29:20,393 --> 00:29:23,596 But he was special, and I like this about him. 567 00:29:23,699 --> 00:29:25,632 But, were you ever angry with him? 568 00:29:25,728 --> 00:29:28,576 It seems like you were sad that, you know, 569 00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:29,710 Why did this happen to me? 570 00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:31,882 My mom had the same reaction. 571 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,153 I, I'm not angry with him. 572 00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:38,076 Because he wanted the best for the family. 573 00:29:39,153 --> 00:29:42,913 Emotionally, I was not involved with his job 574 00:29:43,018 --> 00:29:45,007 so I was just a bystander. 575 00:29:47,655 --> 00:29:51,961 So my role as a wife was support him. 576 00:29:56,182 --> 00:30:00,483 And I had to be strong to keep this family together. 577 00:30:02,155 --> 00:30:07,213 And make them in a loving environment. 578 00:30:08,771 --> 00:30:11,098 The reason I'm getting really emotional right now 579 00:30:11,202 --> 00:30:14,225 is because your attitude is totally different than my mom's. 580 00:30:15,182 --> 00:30:19,068 My mom is the complete opposite of you 581 00:30:19,165 --> 00:30:21,499 in terms of how she took it. 582 00:30:21,595 --> 00:30:24,365 She was like "Why is this happening to me?" 583 00:30:24,463 --> 00:30:27,030 "This was not my plan for my life." 584 00:30:27,135 --> 00:30:30,857 She became angry and bitter and she never let that go. 585 00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:34,879 It's just the pain which she has inside 586 00:30:34,982 --> 00:30:37,470 is keeping her away. 587 00:30:37,569 --> 00:30:40,818 Tell her what bothers you. 588 00:30:40,915 --> 00:30:45,514 What is hurting you inside and ask her the same question. 589 00:30:45,616 --> 00:30:49,741 What is hurting her and how you two can make up 590 00:30:49,838 --> 00:30:52,704 to have mother-daughter relationship. 591 00:30:53,903 --> 00:30:56,290 And see how it's going to work this way. 592 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,771 I really just admired Barbara for her strength more 593 00:31:00,874 --> 00:31:03,982 than anything and especially her choice in wanting 594 00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:06,049 to keep the family together at all costs. 595 00:31:06,148 --> 00:31:11,705 When I talked to her, it really opened my eyes to the pain 596 00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:14,360 that my mom was going through. 597 00:31:14,456 --> 00:31:17,902 Because of what my dad did, this had affected my mom 598 00:31:18,007 --> 00:31:22,027 in a way that I just couldn't understand. 599 00:31:25,931 --> 00:31:28,499 After meeting with Barbara, and taking in her words 600 00:31:28,603 --> 00:31:31,325 of advice, I'm gonna see if there is a possibility 601 00:31:31,431 --> 00:31:34,835 to get my mom to open up. 602 00:31:34,931 --> 00:31:36,451 I just wanted to give you a quick call. 603 00:31:36,527 --> 00:31:41,728 I had this really interesting meeting with another spouse 604 00:31:41,824 --> 00:31:43,518 of a former spy and... 605 00:31:43,614 --> 00:31:46,902 So what it has to do with me? 606 00:31:46,999 --> 00:31:53,036 I thought about our talk, and, and how you processed, 607 00:31:53,133 --> 00:31:58,114 dad being a spy, and how you were pretty angry with him. 608 00:31:59,114 --> 00:32:02,556 And you're even angry with, you know, me and Jesse, and... 609 00:32:02,653 --> 00:32:05,228 Everything you say, it's like, that's your 610 00:32:05,325 --> 00:32:08,211 point of view of what I'm angry about. 611 00:32:08,315 --> 00:32:10,565 It's not your father being a spy. 612 00:32:10,662 --> 00:32:12,652 He was a damn liar. 613 00:32:13,172 --> 00:32:14,306 Boris Korczak's wife. 614 00:32:14,411 --> 00:32:16,815 She was in your exact position. 615 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,287 She was in your shoes. 616 00:32:18,393 --> 00:32:21,518 She went through a lot of, if not almost all 617 00:32:21,617 --> 00:32:23,217 of the same things that you went through, 618 00:32:23,287 --> 00:32:24,345 based on what you told me. 619 00:32:24,449 --> 00:32:26,136 You don't have a clue, really, 620 00:32:26,239 --> 00:32:27,970 what I've been through. 621 00:32:28,074 --> 00:32:30,603 He didn't want to get married to me. 622 00:32:30,699 --> 00:32:31,779 He didn't want to have you. 623 00:32:31,816 --> 00:32:34,324 And then he had this whole secret background. 624 00:32:35,278 --> 00:32:37,574 I just thought maybe you would want to talk to me 625 00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:39,364 a little bit about this stuff, and... 626 00:32:39,365 --> 00:32:40,815 I don't want to talk to you about anything 627 00:32:40,816 --> 00:32:44,066 because you have been supporting your father. 628 00:32:44,162 --> 00:32:45,056 He's my father. 629 00:32:45,057 --> 00:32:45,997 And you want me to tell my story? 630 00:32:45,998 --> 00:32:48,124 Right now I don't give a about him 631 00:32:48,228 --> 00:32:49,960 and his spy 632 00:32:50,056 --> 00:32:52,949 He's just a big liar. 633 00:32:53,045 --> 00:32:55,133 He never told me he was married, he never told me 634 00:32:55,239 --> 00:32:57,403 he had children, he just went through the whole life 635 00:32:57,507 --> 00:33:00,711 with me there with this big lie hanging behind him. 636 00:33:00,815 --> 00:33:03,940 I don't care anymore about talking about him 637 00:33:04,037 --> 00:33:05,412 and his bull 638 00:33:05,511 --> 00:33:06,210 Okay? 639 00:33:06,307 --> 00:33:08,278 So I don't need to talk to you about anything 640 00:33:08,382 --> 00:33:10,074 because you don't understand. 641 00:33:10,172 --> 00:33:12,182 That's just bringing up a lot of painful, 642 00:33:12,286 --> 00:33:15,132 hurtful memories that I don't want to talk about. 643 00:33:15,229 --> 00:33:18,835 Okay, Mom, all I really wanted to do was 644 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:21,864 share the conversation that I had with Barbara 645 00:33:21,961 --> 00:33:23,815 with you, and if you're not... 646 00:33:23,816 --> 00:33:25,073 Yeah, but I don't care about these people, 647 00:33:25,074 --> 00:33:25,970 I got my own story. 648 00:33:26,065 --> 00:33:27,124 Can I, can I finish? 649 00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:28,037 Can I please finish? 650 00:33:28,136 --> 00:33:29,795 If you are not ready to talk about it, 651 00:33:29,893 --> 00:33:32,065 we can just try another time. 652 00:33:32,161 --> 00:33:33,691 I don't even want to try anytime. 653 00:33:33,795 --> 00:33:35,047 How about that? 654 00:33:35,152 --> 00:33:37,161 Okay, Mom. 655 00:33:37,258 --> 00:33:38,432 Have a good night. 656 00:33:38,536 --> 00:33:40,527 Bye bye. 657 00:33:47,739 --> 00:33:48,939 I think after that phone call, 658 00:33:49,008 --> 00:33:51,739 I'm not going to try anymore. 659 00:33:51,838 --> 00:33:54,411 And I think she's made it pretty clear to me that 660 00:33:54,508 --> 00:33:56,402 she's not ready to forgive. 661 00:33:56,499 --> 00:33:58,729 She's not ready to open up. 662 00:33:58,835 --> 00:34:01,124 She's not ready to move on. 663 00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:03,652 You can't help someone that doesn't want to be helped. 664 00:34:04,527 --> 00:34:06,518 And she's just not ready. 665 00:34:10,819 --> 00:34:14,502 In a traditional family dynamic, you may not 666 00:34:14,605 --> 00:34:16,337 have this kind of drama. 667 00:34:16,435 --> 00:34:20,002 But, this drama was brought on because of the fact 668 00:34:20,102 --> 00:34:22,093 that my dad was a spy. 669 00:34:24,990 --> 00:34:27,918 My dad sent me an email recently and not just to me. 670 00:34:28,017 --> 00:34:30,008 He sent it to the whole family. 671 00:34:30,802 --> 00:34:34,052 He actually opens up the email with saying that, 672 00:34:34,151 --> 00:34:37,078 "Today, I got my second of 15 radiation treatments 673 00:34:37,177 --> 00:34:39,029 for prostate cancer. 674 00:34:39,124 --> 00:34:40,484 I really did not want to mention it 675 00:34:40,485 --> 00:34:43,691 because it is all under control and you should not worry." 676 00:34:43,788 --> 00:34:47,235 He ended the email by saying, "Sorry for all the 677 00:34:47,337 --> 00:34:50,142 medical stuff, but like an older model car, 678 00:34:50,243 --> 00:34:52,493 us veterans must spend a bit more time in the shop. 679 00:34:52,593 --> 00:34:54,584 Love you all, Dad." 680 00:34:55,740 --> 00:34:58,686 I had no idea he had cancer and I couldn't believe that 681 00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:00,820 he would even announce that in an email. 682 00:35:03,646 --> 00:35:05,637 So, what's up? 683 00:35:06,317 --> 00:35:08,308 I got your email. 684 00:35:11,616 --> 00:35:12,576 All right, so I'm sorry. 685 00:35:12,652 --> 00:35:15,299 I should have probably told you earlier that 686 00:35:15,396 --> 00:35:16,415 something was going on. 687 00:35:16,512 --> 00:35:19,043 I was actually trying to keep it a secret. 688 00:35:19,143 --> 00:35:22,030 I didn't respond to the email 689 00:35:22,128 --> 00:35:25,235 because I was pissed that you didn't tell me. 690 00:35:25,753 --> 00:35:28,125 You know, I didn't feel like telling you because to me 691 00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:30,076 it's almost like a non-issue. 692 00:35:30,177 --> 00:35:31,110 I understand, cancer... 693 00:35:31,213 --> 00:35:32,905 How do you think that's a non-issue? 694 00:35:33,003 --> 00:35:33,660 It's cancer. 695 00:35:33,762 --> 00:35:35,253 Yes, I'm taking things too lightly. 696 00:35:35,357 --> 00:35:40,174 I have always lived without fear. 697 00:35:41,168 --> 00:35:43,302 And I'm not afraid of this either. 698 00:35:43,402 --> 00:35:45,732 How can you operate undercover for 10 years 699 00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:48,119 and be afraid every day that you might go to jail 700 00:35:48,223 --> 00:35:50,610 or that somebody might do something bad to you? 701 00:35:52,125 --> 00:35:54,973 This fearlessness is the way I'm wired, fundamentally, 702 00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:58,477 and you operate like an island, an emotional island. 703 00:35:58,579 --> 00:36:00,848 That's part of my baggage. 704 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,669 It's just not a normal thing. 705 00:36:04,772 --> 00:36:07,678 To have no feelings and no fear. 706 00:36:09,669 --> 00:36:11,326 That's not normal. 707 00:36:11,424 --> 00:36:15,151 You know, this has developed into a pattern, with you. 708 00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:18,535 You told me, on my way to school, that, you know, you were a spy, 709 00:36:18,634 --> 00:36:22,834 and you just kind of dropped me off and said, you know, "Okay, go on, 710 00:36:22,937 --> 00:36:24,928 about your day." 711 00:36:25,446 --> 00:36:27,218 I wasn't able to focus because I spent 712 00:36:27,317 --> 00:36:29,446 so much time processing it. 713 00:36:29,549 --> 00:36:31,477 And it affected me. 714 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:35,263 And, fast-forward to now, you tell me after the fact 715 00:36:35,361 --> 00:36:39,245 that you have prostate cancer again thinking that it 716 00:36:39,348 --> 00:36:41,401 was not going to affect me, and it did affect me 717 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,062 and that's why I'm asking you to, in the future, 718 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,486 do better at telling me before it becomes a thing 719 00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:50,602 that I will get really upset about. 720 00:36:50,701 --> 00:36:55,580 All right, um, if... if you 721 00:36:55,678 --> 00:36:57,611 want me to feel guilty, 722 00:36:57,709 --> 00:37:01,870 you just achieved that. 723 00:37:01,973 --> 00:37:03,308 My dad still doesn't get it. 724 00:37:03,406 --> 00:37:07,093 He can't seem to break this spy mode and just be my dad. 725 00:37:07,192 --> 00:37:09,678 Everything is a mission and a strategy with him. 726 00:37:09,781 --> 00:37:12,227 I just want him to see that his actions have consequences 727 00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:14,437 for those who love him like me. 728 00:37:15,317 --> 00:37:16,334 I'll let you know. 729 00:37:16,433 --> 00:37:17,924 I'll keep you more informed. 730 00:37:18,026 --> 00:37:20,017 I promise. 731 00:37:26,861 --> 00:37:29,111 Today I'm going to meet with Boria Sax, 732 00:37:29,209 --> 00:37:32,973 who's the son of Saville Sax, who was a spy. 733 00:37:33,071 --> 00:37:34,169 Are you Boria? 734 00:37:34,267 --> 00:37:34,968 I sure am. 735 00:37:35,067 --> 00:37:36,401 I'm Chelsea, its nice to meet you. 736 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:38,491 Actually, I give hugs. 737 00:37:47,973 --> 00:37:49,584 How did you find out? 738 00:37:49,683 --> 00:37:52,968 I found out from a journalist. 739 00:37:53,071 --> 00:37:55,638 I was well into middle age. 740 00:37:55,736 --> 00:37:59,183 It was very hard for me to talk about it to anybody. 741 00:37:59,285 --> 00:38:02,687 Eventually, the desire to know, 742 00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:05,915 overcame all of my hesitations. 743 00:38:06,017 --> 00:38:10,000 Things from my childhood started to make sense. 744 00:38:11,151 --> 00:38:14,718 When I was growing up, there were all sorts of tensions 745 00:38:14,821 --> 00:38:16,473 in my home. 746 00:38:16,571 --> 00:38:21,611 People were following my parents around. 747 00:38:21,709 --> 00:38:25,392 That's why this spy thing is so distressing. 748 00:38:25,495 --> 00:38:29,794 It tells you that the world isn't what you think it is. 749 00:38:31,870 --> 00:38:34,834 When I found out that my dad was a former KGB agent, 750 00:38:34,937 --> 00:38:36,745 I had a moment where I thought, 751 00:38:36,848 --> 00:38:39,875 is he who he presented himself to me to be? 752 00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:43,718 There's just so much role playing. 753 00:38:43,817 --> 00:38:45,749 So many disguises. 754 00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:50,828 That finally you have to dig very intensely 755 00:38:51,502 --> 00:38:54,990 to find the real human being beyond all that. 756 00:38:55,091 --> 00:38:59,609 Were you ever able to uncover that about your father? 757 00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:02,798 When I finally found out about this, 758 00:39:02,895 --> 00:39:05,444 he had been dead for some time. 759 00:39:07,435 --> 00:39:11,560 What I saw in Boria Sax was a sadness in his eyes 760 00:39:11,658 --> 00:39:13,633 that made me feel really terrible for him 761 00:39:13,734 --> 00:39:17,734 because he has never been able to have a conversation 762 00:39:17,837 --> 00:39:19,886 with his dad about it. 763 00:39:19,984 --> 00:39:23,109 And I'm able to get the answers that I need out of my dad 764 00:39:23,212 --> 00:39:25,203 because my dad is still here. 765 00:39:26,401 --> 00:39:27,892 I just found out my dad has cancer 766 00:39:27,993 --> 00:39:30,721 and I need to talk to him while I still have the chance. 767 00:39:30,819 --> 00:39:33,252 He needs to know that his spy life has hurt me. 768 00:39:41,136 --> 00:39:43,726 I'm trying to create an environment with my dad 769 00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:46,677 where we can actually talk to each other about 770 00:39:46,775 --> 00:39:49,543 some of the more difficult topics that we've 771 00:39:49,637 --> 00:39:50,837 never been able to talk about. 772 00:39:50,838 --> 00:39:54,101 Particularly, that his actions as a spy has affected me. 773 00:39:55,619 --> 00:40:00,598 The things that you were doing as a spy. 774 00:40:00,954 --> 00:40:05,440 You might think that this didn't have any 775 00:40:05,537 --> 00:40:09,443 affect on the family like me or Jesse. 776 00:40:12,028 --> 00:40:14,916 You weren't directly impacted because it wasn't 777 00:40:15,019 --> 00:40:19,101 like I was absent for long periods of time. 778 00:40:19,102 --> 00:40:20,353 You remember I was always there. 779 00:40:20,354 --> 00:40:22,208 I was always supportive, right? 780 00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:25,833 The things that you did may not have impacted me directly, 781 00:40:25,934 --> 00:40:30,851 but they certainly impacted me psychologically 782 00:40:30,952 --> 00:40:33,001 and emotionally and these are things 783 00:40:33,104 --> 00:40:35,095 that I'm only now realising. 784 00:40:38,162 --> 00:40:43,019 I can only say to everybody who I hurt, I'm sorry. 785 00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:46,784 I can't, I can't. 786 00:40:46,885 --> 00:40:47,900 I didn't intend to. 787 00:40:48,001 --> 00:40:49,613 You know that. 788 00:40:49,711 --> 00:40:52,800 And it's one thing to analyse and to figure out, you know, 789 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:53,876 where that comes from. 790 00:40:53,976 --> 00:40:56,702 It's another thing to live the life that 791 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,784 you think you want to live as a good person. 792 00:41:02,894 --> 00:41:04,891 And that's what I'm trying to do. 793 00:41:06,403 --> 00:41:08,534 I'm very glad that I've been able to tell him 794 00:41:08,635 --> 00:41:10,644 I'm feeling a certain way and I'm glad he was 795 00:41:10,742 --> 00:41:12,001 willing to listen. 796 00:41:12,101 --> 00:41:17,077 And I feel a lot more comfortable with myself knowing 797 00:41:17,796 --> 00:41:22,595 what I know now about my dad and what his intentions were. 798 00:41:22,693 --> 00:41:25,742 So, Dad, this has been really helpful for me 799 00:41:25,842 --> 00:41:30,818 to be able to tell you, you know, what I think and how I feel. 800 00:41:31,659 --> 00:41:34,666 And this is a conversation we've never had before. 801 00:41:34,766 --> 00:41:39,425 So, um, so thank you for listening to me. 802 00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:41,635 All right girl, baby. 803 00:41:41,733 --> 00:41:48,684 Even though, you know, you're so big, you know, you're still my baby. 804 00:41:48,787 --> 00:41:49,403 All right. 805 00:41:50,101 --> 00:41:52,212 - Love you dad. - I love you. 806 00:42:00,242 --> 00:42:02,570 I reached out to dozens of children of spies, 807 00:42:02,668 --> 00:42:05,877 but the majority of them declined to tell their stories. 808 00:42:06,671 --> 00:42:09,084 But, I've been able to meet some amazing people 809 00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:11,176 who I share a unique bond with. 810 00:42:12,287 --> 00:42:14,278 They've helped me realise I'm not alone. 811 00:42:15,712 --> 00:42:18,403 No matter what country a spy is working for, 812 00:42:18,502 --> 00:42:21,671 the lies, the danger, the lost sense of identity 813 00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:24,595 are passed onto us, their children. 814 00:42:26,229 --> 00:42:28,162 Some of us are separated from our families 815 00:42:28,261 --> 00:42:29,953 or forced into witness protection. 816 00:42:30,055 --> 00:42:32,743 Others go into hiding to escape the scrutiny 817 00:42:32,843 --> 00:42:33,979 of their parents' actions. 818 00:42:34,078 --> 00:42:36,410 Espionage creates many victims. 819 00:42:36,508 --> 00:42:39,377 But the children of spies are among the innocent. 820 00:42:41,247 --> 00:42:43,238 Are we able to help them? 821 00:42:44,078 --> 00:42:46,104 Can they ever come out of the shadows? 63559

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