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1
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It was on my way
to college.
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00:00:10,916 --> 00:00:12,907
My dad told me the whole story.
3
00:00:14,818 --> 00:00:18,921
He took the 4 and 1/2 hour drive
to tell me, "I was a KGB spy.
4
00:00:20,755 --> 00:00:22,447
"I was sent here to get closer
5
00:00:22,546 --> 00:00:24,778
"to some important
people in politics
6
00:00:25,694 --> 00:00:28,124
"and steal some information."
7
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,489
He told me, "I have
another family in Germany
8
00:00:31,587 --> 00:00:36,568
"and I was supposed to go back,
but I stayed here for you."
9
00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:40,990
My whole life was not
what I thought it was.
10
00:00:44,375 --> 00:00:47,103
My dad is a criminal,
that is a fact,
11
00:00:47,204 --> 00:00:50,828
and my dad has hurt a lot of
people, that's another fact.
12
00:00:54,971 --> 00:00:58,038
Finding out my dad was a spy
turned my life upside down.
13
00:00:59,393 --> 00:01:01,404
I've struggled
with relationships
14
00:01:01,503 --> 00:01:03,794
and it's made me doubt
my whole upbringing
15
00:01:03,894 --> 00:01:05,965
and who I really am as a person.
16
00:01:07,877 --> 00:01:11,322
I still have so many
questions and I really wonder
17
00:01:11,422 --> 00:01:13,314
are there other children
of spies out there
18
00:01:13,414 --> 00:01:15,405
who feel like I do.
19
00:01:16,441 --> 00:01:18,492
The two sons
of the accused spy couple
20
00:01:18,592 --> 00:01:21,918
in Cambridge, Massachusetts
in the custody of US Marshals.
21
00:01:22,018 --> 00:01:23,312
Two of
the spies live here
22
00:01:23,412 --> 00:01:25,404
with their two young daughters.
23
00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:29,247
Just seemed
like a nice quiet family.
24
00:01:29,347 --> 00:01:31,278
I would have been
discombobulated
25
00:01:31,378 --> 00:01:33,548
if I found my
parents were spies.
26
00:01:33,649 --> 00:01:36,337
People think that
spies are like James Bond
27
00:01:36,437 --> 00:01:38,209
and it is absolutely
nothing like that.
28
00:01:38,309 --> 00:01:39,723
The day was one of mourning
29
00:01:39,823 --> 00:01:42,113
for this teenage boy
whose parents were sent
30
00:01:42,213 --> 00:01:44,922
to Russia last night
as he was left behind.
31
00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:48,923
There are children
of spies out there
32
00:01:49,024 --> 00:01:52,131
and they've really gone
through some traumatic things.
33
00:01:54,641 --> 00:01:58,306
I know this because
my dad was a KGB spy.
34
00:02:00,935 --> 00:02:03,942
My dad is from East Germany
or former East Germany
35
00:02:04,042 --> 00:02:06,551
and he was recruited by
Russian intelligence.
36
00:02:08,024 --> 00:02:10,673
His real name was
Albrecht Dittrich.
37
00:02:10,773 --> 00:02:14,138
He came to America in his 30s
under the name Jack Barsky.
38
00:02:14,238 --> 00:02:15,891
The Russians had
stolen the identity
39
00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:17,286
of a deceased American child
40
00:02:17,386 --> 00:02:19,714
and gave the identity to my dad.
41
00:02:19,815 --> 00:02:21,946
He worked at MetLife
as an executive
42
00:02:22,046 --> 00:02:23,938
and he stole American
information technology
43
00:02:24,037 --> 00:02:26,029
for the KGB.
44
00:02:27,981 --> 00:02:31,426
My dad met my mother who is
an immigrant from Guyana.
45
00:02:31,525 --> 00:02:33,976
They got married and raised my
younger brother Jessie and I
46
00:02:34,076 --> 00:02:36,066
in a Pennsylvania suburb.
47
00:02:36,944 --> 00:02:40,290
When I see in the
current news about spies,
48
00:02:41,364 --> 00:02:43,536
I'm not really surprised.
49
00:02:43,636 --> 00:02:44,769
There are spies everywhere.
50
00:02:44,870 --> 00:02:46,762
But you don't really
hear the stories
51
00:02:46,862 --> 00:02:48,853
of the loved ones of spies.
52
00:02:49,251 --> 00:02:53,692
The fact that my father was
a spy tore my family apart
53
00:02:53,793 --> 00:02:55,484
and it completely
changed my worldview
54
00:02:55,584 --> 00:02:58,154
and everything I
knew about my life.
55
00:02:58,246 --> 00:03:00,046
It was always really
hard for me to figure out
56
00:03:00,047 --> 00:03:04,209
who I really am because
I didn't have all
57
00:03:04,309 --> 00:03:07,834
of the information that I wanted
about my dad and his past.
58
00:03:08,164 --> 00:03:10,084
I have always wondered if
there were other people
59
00:03:10,085 --> 00:03:12,137
out there like me.
60
00:03:12,237 --> 00:03:15,802
As a child, I always felt like
there was something missing
61
00:03:15,901 --> 00:03:18,172
and I couldn't put my
finger on what it was.
62
00:03:20,084 --> 00:03:23,210
I noticed some weird
things growing up,
63
00:03:23,311 --> 00:03:25,303
things that I questioned.
64
00:03:27,892 --> 00:03:30,561
We had a house next door when
we lived in Pennsylvania.
65
00:03:31,954 --> 00:03:35,440
I never saw anyone come
in or out of the house.
66
00:03:35,540 --> 00:03:37,311
The blinds were always shut.
67
00:03:37,412 --> 00:03:39,941
The grass was always
perfectly cut.
68
00:03:40,041 --> 00:03:41,641
There was a clothesline
out there as well
69
00:03:41,674 --> 00:03:44,103
and I never saw any
clothes on the clothesline.
70
00:03:45,377 --> 00:03:48,246
I just had a funny
feeling about that house,
71
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,871
a feeling that I
was being watched.
72
00:03:54,859 --> 00:03:57,586
It wasn't until many years
later that I found out
73
00:03:57,686 --> 00:04:00,475
that the FBI had bought that
little blue house next door.
74
00:04:15,890 --> 00:04:18,696
It's been years since I've
been back to my childhood home
75
00:04:18,797 --> 00:04:21,845
in Pennsylvania where the
FBI caught up with my dad.
76
00:04:22,343 --> 00:04:24,337
My old house.
77
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,106
There's the house
that the FBI bought.
78
00:04:33,934 --> 00:04:36,923
Joe Reilly is the FBI
agent that caught my dad.
79
00:04:38,954 --> 00:04:40,805
And it just so turns
out he's now one
80
00:04:40,906 --> 00:04:42,439
of my dad's good friends.
81
00:04:42,539 --> 00:04:43,499
Hi, Chelsea,
how are you?
82
00:04:43,574 --> 00:04:44,271
How are you?
83
00:04:44,324 --> 00:04:46,004
It's been a while.
- It's been a few years.
84
00:04:46,005 --> 00:04:48,574
As long as I've known
Joe, I've never sat down
85
00:04:48,623 --> 00:04:50,903
with him one on one to talk
to him about the investigation
86
00:04:50,904 --> 00:04:52,518
on my dad.
87
00:04:52,617 --> 00:04:53,417
When you lived here,
88
00:04:53,495 --> 00:04:55,184
I remember the first time
I saw you.
89
00:04:55,284 --> 00:04:58,393
You were this high and
your dad was teaching you
90
00:04:58,494 --> 00:04:59,907
to play basketball in the,
91
00:05:00,008 --> 00:05:01,999
Yeah.
in the driveway.
92
00:05:03,234 --> 00:05:05,565
And it was amazing how much
93
00:05:05,662 --> 00:05:08,670
I could learn just
by watching you.
94
00:05:08,771 --> 00:05:12,056
I really could see
that your dad loved you
95
00:05:12,157 --> 00:05:13,968
and he was very attentive.
96
00:05:14,069 --> 00:05:16,877
How did you
guys find out about my dad?
97
00:05:16,975 --> 00:05:20,781
We found out through
a defector source,
98
00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:24,307
a man who worked for
the KGB in Moscow.
99
00:05:24,405 --> 00:05:28,568
We didn't know about him at
all until we got information,
100
00:05:28,669 --> 00:05:31,557
fragments of information
from the defector.
101
00:05:31,655 --> 00:05:33,826
We didn't know where
he was in the country,
102
00:05:33,927 --> 00:05:35,918
but we narrowed it down to here.
103
00:05:39,743 --> 00:05:42,730
And when we realised
we found the right guy,
104
00:05:43,845 --> 00:05:47,131
then it intensified and
we started surveillance.
105
00:05:52,807 --> 00:05:56,134
We would surveil from
the windows there.
106
00:05:56,231 --> 00:05:59,001
You guys bought the house?
107
00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,913
Yeah.
108
00:06:01,014 --> 00:06:03,760
We used the house
probably well over a year.
109
00:06:06,510 --> 00:06:09,259
Your dad used to come out
and jog down the road.
110
00:06:11,211 --> 00:06:13,201
We would surveil.
111
00:06:14,236 --> 00:06:18,121
I could sit up in that area
because that was wide open.
112
00:06:18,220 --> 00:06:19,595
Yeah.
113
00:06:19,696 --> 00:06:21,985
I was pretending
to be a birdwatcher
114
00:06:22,086 --> 00:06:24,972
and I had books on ornithology
and I had a telescope
115
00:06:25,371 --> 00:06:29,275
and I just sat there when I
knew you guys would be outside.
116
00:06:30,669 --> 00:06:33,239
When I found out that the
FBI was living next door
117
00:06:33,338 --> 00:06:35,228
to our house in Pennsylvania,
118
00:06:35,329 --> 00:06:36,784
I was completely
blown away by that
119
00:06:36,881 --> 00:06:38,876
'cause we never noticed it.
120
00:06:40,948 --> 00:06:44,391
I couldn't believe that they
went to such great lengths
121
00:06:44,491 --> 00:06:46,482
to keep eyes on my dad.
122
00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:51,902
You were away one
weekend, your whole family.
123
00:06:52,003 --> 00:06:54,491
We had our technical team go in
124
00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:56,743
and they put microphones
in the kitchen
125
00:06:58,374 --> 00:07:01,382
and in the family
room so we could hear
126
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,214
your dad's conversations.
127
00:07:03,311 --> 00:07:05,523
What were you looking
for, like an admission?
128
00:07:05,624 --> 00:07:06,320
Yes.
129
00:07:06,421 --> 00:07:08,470
And we got that about, oh,
130
00:07:08,571 --> 00:07:10,960
just a few weeks after we
put the microphones in.
131
00:07:12,234 --> 00:07:14,406
Your dad and your mother
had a conversation
132
00:07:14,507 --> 00:07:17,017
in the kitchen about his origin.
133
00:07:18,291 --> 00:07:20,541
Your mother was expressing
her disappointment
134
00:07:20,642 --> 00:07:22,753
in not knowing
who he really was.
135
00:07:24,027 --> 00:07:26,676
And that's when he
told her the truth?
136
00:07:26,777 --> 00:07:28,268
Yeah, he told her everything.
137
00:07:28,368 --> 00:07:31,335
He really didn't think he
was gonna get caught out here.
138
00:07:31,436 --> 00:07:32,411
No, he didn't.
139
00:07:32,512 --> 00:07:34,604
He had been here so long.
140
00:07:34,701 --> 00:07:36,393
In fact, when we arrested him,
141
00:07:36,494 --> 00:07:39,582
one of the first things
he said to us was,
142
00:07:39,683 --> 00:07:40,896
"What took you so long?"
143
00:07:51,631 --> 00:07:54,997
Our goal was to recruit him,
not to put him in prison,
144
00:07:55,097 --> 00:07:58,265
but to get him to work with us.
145
00:07:58,364 --> 00:08:01,491
It's really fascinating
to listen to the details
146
00:08:01,590 --> 00:08:03,361
of the investigation of my dad,
147
00:08:03,462 --> 00:08:06,587
but there's an emotional side
of this that has never really
148
00:08:06,688 --> 00:08:08,680
been discussed in my family.
149
00:08:11,549 --> 00:08:15,332
And I want to know if there's
others out there like me.
150
00:08:23,337 --> 00:08:25,329
Dad.
151
00:08:25,808 --> 00:08:28,616
Oh boy, it's been a while huh?
152
00:08:28,717 --> 00:08:30,170
Like two years?
153
00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:33,156
We've been living on
different parts of the country
154
00:08:33,254 --> 00:08:36,106
and haven't had time to
physically get together.
155
00:08:36,204 --> 00:08:39,012
So, I'm really looking forward
to sitting down with him
156
00:08:39,111 --> 00:08:40,167
and talking about the past
157
00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:42,039
and I have some
questions for him too.
158
00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:44,430
It's been too long, but
you know, you're over there,
159
00:08:44,530 --> 00:08:46,741
I'm over there, then you
moved there, and I moved here,
160
00:08:46,839 --> 00:08:49,011
and you got that
adventurous gene.
161
00:08:49,111 --> 00:08:50,444
You don't mind leaving.
162
00:08:50,545 --> 00:08:52,396
A lot of people have
a problem leaving.
163
00:08:52,497 --> 00:08:53,313
I never had it.
164
00:08:53,414 --> 00:08:56,619
I can pick up and go
tomorrow someplace.
165
00:08:56,718 --> 00:09:01,039
If given an opportunity
to move to a new country,
166
00:09:01,141 --> 00:09:03,151
and I'm told, okay, you
have to leave everything
167
00:09:03,251 --> 00:09:05,103
and everyone behind,
you can never see them
168
00:09:05,195 --> 00:09:06,635
or talk to them
again, I would do it.
169
00:09:06,636 --> 00:09:07,972
And I wouldn't
feel bad about it.
170
00:09:08,071 --> 00:09:09,763
And that kinda scares
me a little bit.
171
00:09:09,865 --> 00:09:11,914
Because your attachments
172
00:09:12,016 --> 00:09:14,206
aren't strong enough
to keep you someplace.
173
00:09:15,081 --> 00:09:17,012
And I had the same thing going.
174
00:09:17,111 --> 00:09:18,805
I had some attachments,
175
00:09:18,905 --> 00:09:21,853
but in the end, the
adventure was more important.
176
00:09:22,651 --> 00:09:24,641
It was, you know, just, I couldn't resist.
177
00:09:25,677 --> 00:09:27,847
So is that why
you became a spy?
178
00:09:27,949 --> 00:09:31,155
The KGB was the most
powerful single organisation
179
00:09:31,254 --> 00:09:33,067
on the planet and
they wanted me.
180
00:09:33,165 --> 00:09:37,088
Boy, that flatters
you doesn't it, right?
181
00:09:37,188 --> 00:09:40,914
It was powerful enough
to make me say goodbye
182
00:09:41,012 --> 00:09:44,818
to everything and everybody
I knew, my entire past.
183
00:09:44,917 --> 00:09:47,126
I'm sure you could
do the same thing.
184
00:09:47,628 --> 00:09:49,618
I think it might be genetic.
185
00:09:50,415 --> 00:09:51,311
I'm 30 years old now
186
00:09:51,411 --> 00:09:55,574
and I don't feel
capable of having kids
187
00:09:55,673 --> 00:09:59,636
because I know with my ability
to disconnect emotionally
188
00:09:59,637 --> 00:10:01,646
even though I feel like I
have a lot of love to give
189
00:10:01,647 --> 00:10:03,641
and I feel like I
would be nurturing,
190
00:10:04,635 --> 00:10:08,359
it's not gonna be easy
for me to overcome that
191
00:10:08,459 --> 00:10:09,356
with my own family.
192
00:10:09,455 --> 00:10:12,603
And I feel so terrified
that I would repeat that.
193
00:10:15,624 --> 00:10:16,544
It's one of the things.
194
00:10:16,545 --> 00:10:17,978
You know, people who
are not as strong as you
195
00:10:17,979 --> 00:10:20,508
and me have a hard time dealing
with that kind of stuff.
196
00:10:20,611 --> 00:10:22,103
Sure, I mean, that's normal.
197
00:10:22,202 --> 00:10:23,458
We're not normal.
198
00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:25,011
No, we're not.
199
00:10:25,111 --> 00:10:27,103
I don't know what normal means.
200
00:10:28,497 --> 00:10:30,310
Yeah, that's nothing
to be proud of either.
201
00:10:30,408 --> 00:10:32,400
We just are who we are.
202
00:10:34,234 --> 00:10:39,112
My normal is I grew up
with a father who is ex-KGB.
203
00:10:39,213 --> 00:10:42,220
My normal is not knowing the
answers to all the questions
204
00:10:42,319 --> 00:10:45,485
that I've been trying to find
for my entire life up to now.
205
00:10:45,586 --> 00:10:48,076
That's my normal.
206
00:10:48,794 --> 00:10:51,762
I really wonder do other
families of former spies
207
00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:53,554
have to go through
the same thing.
208
00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:54,906
I may not have all the answers,
209
00:10:55,009 --> 00:10:57,915
but this just means I need
to ask more questions.
210
00:11:03,213 --> 00:11:05,093
I wanna talk to other
people who've gone through
211
00:11:05,094 --> 00:11:07,025
what I've gone through.
212
00:11:07,126 --> 00:11:09,296
Today, I'm gonna
meet Robert Korczak.
213
00:11:09,398 --> 00:11:11,388
His father was a spy as well.
214
00:11:22,142 --> 00:11:24,033
I read an article about
Boris and I found out
215
00:11:24,136 --> 00:11:25,748
his son Robert lives in Virginia
216
00:11:25,847 --> 00:11:27,780
and he was willing to
share his story with me.
217
00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:29,690
I wanna know how his father
218
00:11:29,792 --> 00:11:31,784
being a spy has
affected his life.
219
00:11:35,049 --> 00:11:39,787
Did you have any strange
feelings when you were young?
220
00:11:40,626 --> 00:11:42,001
Starting when?
221
00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:45,386
When my dad was
active with the KGB
222
00:11:45,486 --> 00:11:49,767
or when my dad was
exposed as a CIA plant?
223
00:11:49,863 --> 00:11:50,743
When did you find out?
224
00:11:50,744 --> 00:11:52,196
Seven, eight,
something like that.
225
00:11:52,296 --> 00:11:54,465
Okay, so
you found out young.
226
00:11:54,568 --> 00:11:56,261
How did you react?
227
00:11:56,361 --> 00:12:00,224
Well, I reacted by hiding in
the foot-well of my dad's car
228
00:12:00,323 --> 00:12:03,112
as we sped through the
streets of Copenhagen
229
00:12:05,063 --> 00:12:07,054
while in a car chase.
230
00:12:11,835 --> 00:12:12,890
That's how you found out?
231
00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:15,640
That's when I found out
something wasn't right.
232
00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:16,794
Jesus.
233
00:12:16,894 --> 00:12:17,551
Yeah.
234
00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:20,660
That was my introduction
to hey, your dad's a spy.
235
00:12:20,758 --> 00:12:22,967
Did someone actually tell you?
236
00:12:23,070 --> 00:12:25,061
My dad, eventually.
237
00:12:25,777 --> 00:12:28,048
It definitely became
clear after he was shot.
238
00:12:30,438 --> 00:12:32,429
We're in the fruit department.
239
00:12:36,929 --> 00:12:39,419
He reaches back and he
says, "Something bit me."
240
00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:42,409
And he has a little bit of
blood on his hand or something.
241
00:12:56,727 --> 00:13:00,690
We go home and I'm lying on
the floor watching cartoons
242
00:13:00,791 --> 00:13:03,938
and my dad starts losing
the ability to walk.
243
00:13:09,554 --> 00:13:11,666
He was fading in and
out of consciousness.
244
00:13:15,250 --> 00:13:17,621
So, it passed eventually
like a kidney stone
245
00:13:17,719 --> 00:13:20,708
which he captured
in a coffee filter.
246
00:13:21,902 --> 00:13:23,157
It wasn't safe.
247
00:13:23,256 --> 00:13:25,368
I missed nine months
of school after that.
248
00:13:26,602 --> 00:13:29,669
My dad's friends were obviously
doing as much as they could.
249
00:13:30,705 --> 00:13:34,429
As for me, at 8
1/2, nine years old,
250
00:13:34,529 --> 00:13:37,515
I was the one carrying his
nine millimetre Beretta.
251
00:13:40,386 --> 00:13:42,378
I had strict orders.
252
00:13:44,128 --> 00:13:46,121
If somebody knocks at the door,
253
00:13:46,717 --> 00:13:50,362
tell them exactly
these words, I'm armed,
254
00:13:50,462 --> 00:13:51,835
I'm going to count to five
255
00:13:51,938 --> 00:13:54,027
and then I'm going
to start shooting.
256
00:14:02,157 --> 00:14:04,147
- And did you ever have to...
- No.
257
00:14:05,025 --> 00:14:05,745
Well, that's good.
258
00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:06,596
That is fantastic,
259
00:14:06,698 --> 00:14:10,260
'cause I still have some
marbles left because of that.
260
00:14:12,313 --> 00:14:14,128
I can't imagine.
261
00:14:14,227 --> 00:14:15,838
You ever feel paranoid?
262
00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:18,111
I have reoccurring nightmares.
263
00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:19,265
I have...
- Me too.
264
00:14:19,365 --> 00:14:23,087
My reoccurring
nightmare for decades now
265
00:14:23,188 --> 00:14:26,335
is that I'm being
chased and I have a gun.
266
00:14:28,487 --> 00:14:30,756
The gun always turns into a toy.
267
00:14:35,537 --> 00:14:37,929
I have the exact same one.
268
00:14:39,959 --> 00:14:41,948
I'm always being chased.
269
00:14:42,909 --> 00:14:44,897
I need to defend myself.
270
00:14:47,048 --> 00:14:49,039
But the gun won't work.
271
00:14:51,272 --> 00:14:53,084
Exactly.
272
00:14:53,184 --> 00:14:54,384
That's really interesting that
273
00:14:54,459 --> 00:14:57,942
we have the same kind
of recurring nightmare.
274
00:14:58,044 --> 00:15:03,140
Do you feel like, 'cause I
feel like I have some traits
275
00:15:04,015 --> 00:15:06,907
that would allow me
to do what my dad did.
276
00:15:07,006 --> 00:15:10,291
It scares me a little bit,
it's like I could absolutely
277
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:13,041
right now leave
everything behind
278
00:15:13,140 --> 00:15:15,907
and move to another country
and not feel bad about it.
279
00:15:16,006 --> 00:15:18,974
You've been keeping
people at an arm's length.
280
00:15:19,073 --> 00:15:19,772
Yes.
281
00:15:19,871 --> 00:15:24,772
We are outsiders because
there are no kids like us.
282
00:15:25,967 --> 00:15:27,958
We're always gonna be outsiders.
283
00:15:29,032 --> 00:15:31,285
This is why I wanted
to meet other people
284
00:15:31,383 --> 00:15:33,313
that share the same thing,
285
00:15:33,414 --> 00:15:35,823
'cause I thought I
was the only one.
286
00:15:35,926 --> 00:15:40,904
It is very difficult to
have nobody to relate to
287
00:15:41,698 --> 00:15:43,692
about this stuff.
288
00:15:44,448 --> 00:15:48,150
And that's the life
of a spy's kid.
289
00:15:54,327 --> 00:15:56,320
I wasn't expecting that.
290
00:15:56,835 --> 00:15:58,830
It's the truth.
291
00:15:59,862 --> 00:16:01,835
More similarities than I
thought there would be.
292
00:16:01,936 --> 00:16:03,269
- Me too.
- Really?
293
00:16:03,371 --> 00:16:04,981
I'm pretty surprised.
294
00:16:05,083 --> 00:16:08,048
I felt a lot less alone
after talking to Robert.
295
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:12,448
It was like looking in a
mirror and he understood me
296
00:16:14,006 --> 00:16:15,977
on a different level
than anybody else.
297
00:16:16,073 --> 00:16:17,967
Give me a hug.
298
00:16:18,067 --> 00:16:18,842
Hang in there.
299
00:16:18,945 --> 00:16:21,115
Really confirmed that there's
others out there like me
300
00:16:21,212 --> 00:16:22,669
and I don't have to feel alone
301
00:16:22,765 --> 00:16:24,761
in my conflict with my identity.
302
00:16:26,036 --> 00:16:28,683
I'm going to find
other children of spies
303
00:16:28,782 --> 00:16:30,775
and hear their stories.
304
00:16:36,074 --> 00:16:38,124
Today, I'm meeting with my mom.
305
00:16:38,224 --> 00:16:40,753
Since my conversation
with my dad the other day,
306
00:16:40,855 --> 00:16:43,384
I really just wanted
to talk to my mom.
307
00:16:43,483 --> 00:16:45,257
I've made it a point
to go visit her
308
00:16:45,355 --> 00:16:47,845
and try to maintain a
relationship with her.
309
00:16:47,941 --> 00:16:49,797
But it's always been difficult.
310
00:16:49,893 --> 00:16:51,887
How are you?
- I'm good.
311
00:16:52,326 --> 00:16:54,974
Got to talk to dad the
other day, got to go see him.
312
00:16:55,074 --> 00:16:55,730
Really?
313
00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:57,350
It had been awhile
since I've seen him.
314
00:16:57,422 --> 00:16:58,836
And what did you ask him?
315
00:16:58,892 --> 00:17:00,092
We just had a
good conversation
316
00:17:00,093 --> 00:17:02,124
relating to his life as a spy.
317
00:17:02,882 --> 00:17:07,322
Did he tell you the
truth about things?
318
00:17:07,425 --> 00:17:08,280
Yeah.
319
00:17:08,379 --> 00:17:09,271
All right.
320
00:17:09,376 --> 00:17:11,367
Why, you don't think
he's telling the truth?
321
00:17:13,041 --> 00:17:15,030
Not all the time.
322
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:17,242
My parents are divorced now.
323
00:17:17,341 --> 00:17:20,110
My mom has never really
forgiven my dad for being a spy
324
00:17:20,208 --> 00:17:22,697
and flipping her
life upside down.
325
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,408
Different times,
different things happened
326
00:17:25,509 --> 00:17:26,763
that you didn't know.
327
00:17:26,860 --> 00:17:28,275
Like what?
328
00:17:28,376 --> 00:17:30,545
When I got pregnant with you,
329
00:17:30,646 --> 00:17:35,047
he wasn't really interested
in having a family.
330
00:17:35,147 --> 00:17:37,716
So, I said, "If you're not
interested in having the baby,
331
00:17:37,817 --> 00:17:41,360
"I'll take my baby home
to my mom in Guyana."
332
00:17:42,397 --> 00:17:43,092
For how long?
333
00:17:43,195 --> 00:17:45,184
After my two weeks
vacation was up,
334
00:17:46,179 --> 00:17:50,763
I brought you back and he came
to pick me up at the airport.
335
00:17:52,745 --> 00:17:57,387
And he says, "Why did
you bring the baby back?"
336
00:17:57,483 --> 00:17:58,696
- Really?
- Yes.
337
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,771
Hmm.
338
00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:02,962
So, do you believe that or?
339
00:18:03,062 --> 00:18:04,315
I believe anything
you tell me.
340
00:18:04,416 --> 00:18:06,146
Okay, so that's
what he told me
341
00:18:06,246 --> 00:18:08,757
and your father
probably twist it.
342
00:18:09,715 --> 00:18:11,904
So you think
everyone's against you.
343
00:18:17,041 --> 00:18:18,657
My mother and I have always
344
00:18:18,754 --> 00:18:21,683
had a very strained
relationship.
345
00:18:21,783 --> 00:18:23,235
She really does
not like the fact
346
00:18:23,337 --> 00:18:25,704
that I have a good
relationship with my dad.
347
00:18:25,804 --> 00:18:28,771
Why didn't he ever say to
me in any kind of moments
348
00:18:28,871 --> 00:18:31,322
this is the situation, I really
need to tell you something.
349
00:18:31,425 --> 00:18:34,110
I have a wife in Germany,
I have two children there.
350
00:18:34,212 --> 00:18:36,300
He never said any of that.
351
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,610
I think my mom is just
gonna hold onto that pain
352
00:18:38,712 --> 00:18:41,840
and suffering and she's
never gonna let it go.
353
00:18:41,937 --> 00:18:44,904
This is why I don't wanna
talk to you about this
354
00:18:45,008 --> 00:18:47,817
because your father like
to use his profession
355
00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:52,075
and his smarts and use
it on people around him.
356
00:18:52,175 --> 00:18:54,186
One thing I wish I
could get across to my mom
357
00:18:54,287 --> 00:18:56,657
is that I'm not choosing sides.
358
00:18:56,758 --> 00:18:59,229
And that I love her just
the same as I love my dad.
359
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,046
And I just want her to
move on and be happy again.
360
00:19:11,666 --> 00:19:13,121
10 Russian
intelligence officers
361
00:19:13,219 --> 00:19:16,662
have been arrested allegedly
for spying on the US.
362
00:19:16,766 --> 00:19:20,132
In 2010, the FBI busted a
sleeper cell of Russian spies
363
00:19:20,229 --> 00:19:22,362
who were living in
the United States.
364
00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:24,391
They posed as ordinary Americans
365
00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:26,883
while secretly feeding
information over to Moscow.
366
00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:30,408
Some of them, like
Richard and Cynthia Murphy
367
00:19:30,508 --> 00:19:32,277
were married couples
who had children born
368
00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,033
in the United States.
369
00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:36,142
Some reports said that the
marriages were arranged
370
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,490
by the Russian government
and that they had kids
371
00:19:38,594 --> 00:19:41,920
to help their cover as
regular American families.
372
00:19:42,017 --> 00:19:44,071
I can't imagine finding
out that your own birth
373
00:19:44,171 --> 00:19:46,162
was part of a spy operation.
374
00:19:47,237 --> 00:19:49,967
The US government deported
the 10 spies to Russia
375
00:19:50,066 --> 00:19:52,795
in exchange for Western
spies being held in Moscow.
376
00:19:52,892 --> 00:19:55,181
I watched all of this news
unfold just a few years
377
00:19:55,283 --> 00:19:57,853
after my dad told me that
he was a Russian spy.
378
00:19:57,950 --> 00:20:00,821
So my first thought was,
what happened to the kids?
379
00:20:01,975 --> 00:20:03,266
The day was one of mourning
380
00:20:03,371 --> 00:20:04,979
for this teenage
boy whose parents
381
00:20:05,083 --> 00:20:06,653
were sent to Russia last night
382
00:20:06,757 --> 00:20:08,525
as he was left behind.
383
00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:11,275
Juan Lazaro Jr had no
idea his parents were spies
384
00:20:11,374 --> 00:20:12,694
and when they were
sent to Russia,
385
00:20:12,766 --> 00:20:14,304
he decided to stay in New York.
386
00:20:14,402 --> 00:20:15,854
I tried reaching out to Juan
387
00:20:15,958 --> 00:20:18,228
but he won't return
my calls or emails.
388
00:20:19,141 --> 00:20:21,315
The Murphys, two young
children, returned to Russia
389
00:20:21,412 --> 00:20:23,844
with their parents where
they were repatriated.
390
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,129
Then there was Tim Foley
who returned to Russia
391
00:20:27,229 --> 00:20:29,278
with his parents and brother.
392
00:20:29,382 --> 00:20:31,950
Foley was actually
his mom's cover name.
393
00:20:32,046 --> 00:20:34,219
In 2010, he was given
a Russian passport
394
00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:36,171
with the name Timofei Vavilov,
395
00:20:36,269 --> 00:20:38,603
which was his mom's
real last name.
396
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,028
And that really struck
me because 10 years ago
397
00:20:41,132 --> 00:20:43,816
I made the decision to change
my name from Chelsea Barsky
398
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,892
to Chelsea Dittrich.
399
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:47,681
Dittrich was my
dad's real last name.
400
00:20:47,783 --> 00:20:50,074
Barsky was just a name
that the KGB stole
401
00:20:50,171 --> 00:20:51,150
and gave to my dad.
402
00:20:51,246 --> 00:20:54,452
Out of respect for the real
Jack Barsky and his family,
403
00:20:54,554 --> 00:20:57,758
I just didn't think it made
sense to hold onto the name.
404
00:20:57,862 --> 00:20:59,989
And you know, under
normal circumstances
405
00:21:00,091 --> 00:21:03,496
I would have been given
the Dittrich name.
406
00:21:03,595 --> 00:21:06,525
I was not in normal
circumstances obviously.
407
00:21:06,624 --> 00:21:10,687
So, I was given the false name.
408
00:21:12,719 --> 00:21:15,287
My dad's real name
is Albrecht Dittrich
409
00:21:15,385 --> 00:21:18,711
and even though he does
not use it legally,
410
00:21:18,815 --> 00:21:22,496
it was really important for
me to have that emotional tie
411
00:21:22,595 --> 00:21:24,586
to his real name.
412
00:21:29,429 --> 00:21:32,437
I'm going to see my dad today
at his house in Atlanta.
413
00:21:32,537 --> 00:21:35,746
Really just wanna know what
he really did as a spy.
414
00:21:35,844 --> 00:21:38,490
Why do you have this
stupid rock here?
415
00:21:38,594 --> 00:21:40,083
Why is the rock stupid?
416
00:21:40,084 --> 00:21:41,102
Let me tell you what that is.
417
00:21:41,103 --> 00:21:41,796
It's a rock.
418
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,306
Well no, no, this
is a paperweight.
419
00:21:44,408 --> 00:21:46,854
That's sort of a
memory from the past
420
00:21:46,958 --> 00:21:49,306
that I actually made myself.
421
00:21:53,690 --> 00:21:58,371
That is a replica of a
container that I actually used
422
00:21:58,469 --> 00:22:02,295
for handing over
material to my handlers.
423
00:22:04,922 --> 00:22:07,911
It's called a container
for a dead drop operation.
424
00:22:11,652 --> 00:22:13,981
I've now sort of
come to terms with,
425
00:22:14,083 --> 00:22:15,914
okay, he was really a spy.
426
00:22:16,016 --> 00:22:18,487
But now I'm thinking,
okay, how did he do it?
427
00:22:19,641 --> 00:22:22,606
Now, I literally slid
into a different identity,
428
00:22:22,708 --> 00:22:25,757
you've got to believe
that you are that.
429
00:22:25,854 --> 00:22:28,466
So you have to
believe your lie.
430
00:22:28,566 --> 00:22:30,537
Yeah, absolutely.
431
00:22:30,633 --> 00:22:32,487
It's just weird
when you look back on it.
432
00:22:32,586 --> 00:22:34,719
You blended in so well.
433
00:22:34,816 --> 00:22:37,066
It was just something
I did on the side,
434
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,778
like, you know some
people play golf
435
00:22:38,882 --> 00:22:43,479
and I did secret messages and
did surveillance detection.
436
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,574
It's just the
funny thing is that
437
00:22:44,575 --> 00:22:47,008
it's just so like casual to you.
438
00:22:48,155 --> 00:22:49,555
It's very hard to
get my dad to have
439
00:22:49,556 --> 00:22:51,687
an emotional conversation
because my dad
440
00:22:51,787 --> 00:22:55,470
is just always in
an operative mode.
441
00:22:55,571 --> 00:22:58,420
Communication from the
centre that was Moscow
442
00:22:58,517 --> 00:23:00,987
to me was always through
shortwave radio.
443
00:23:02,941 --> 00:23:04,516
Oh, wait a minute.
444
00:23:04,612 --> 00:23:06,604
Can you hear it?
445
00:23:07,441 --> 00:23:08,336
Oh wow.
446
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,606
Yeah, you can see that.
447
00:23:10,708 --> 00:23:12,856
And this is the
fine tuning here.
448
00:23:14,729 --> 00:23:16,720
It's gone.
449
00:23:17,162 --> 00:23:19,508
Yes, this is still
used today by the way.
450
00:23:20,429 --> 00:23:22,200
I tell you what I
would hear normally,
451
00:23:22,297 --> 00:23:23,275
it would go...
452
00:23:27,277 --> 00:23:28,853
And for like about a half hour.
453
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:29,766
Morse code?
454
00:23:29,865 --> 00:23:31,240
Morse code, exactly.
455
00:23:31,344 --> 00:23:34,229
So this is how you received
messages from your bosses.
456
00:23:34,327 --> 00:23:37,095
Right, it's the only
way, only shortwave.
457
00:23:37,199 --> 00:23:39,129
How did you send
them messages?
458
00:23:39,229 --> 00:23:42,237
Sometimes I had long
reports, so I wrote them
459
00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:44,325
and I photographed 'em.
460
00:23:46,917 --> 00:23:51,892
And then I handed the
undeveloped film in a container
461
00:23:52,254 --> 00:23:56,135
in what's called a drop
operation to a local agent.
462
00:23:56,237 --> 00:23:58,365
I gotta show you how to make
one of those containers.
463
00:23:58,469 --> 00:24:00,200
You'll be surprised.
464
00:24:00,298 --> 00:24:03,702
It's so cool to learn how my
dad actually did his spy job.
465
00:24:03,804 --> 00:24:07,566
It's so different than
it is in the movies.
466
00:24:07,670 --> 00:24:11,036
So, what I have here is
the secret piece of material
467
00:24:11,133 --> 00:24:15,975
that I wanna hand in a drop
operation to a Soviet agent.
468
00:24:16,075 --> 00:24:17,048
And I wrap it.
469
00:24:17,150 --> 00:24:19,879
So now I need to put
this into something
470
00:24:19,979 --> 00:24:21,969
where it looks totally innocent.
471
00:24:23,603 --> 00:24:25,496
This is the stuff you
used to make the drop?
472
00:24:25,594 --> 00:24:26,929
Yeah, sure.
473
00:24:27,027 --> 00:24:28,562
Did mom ever catch
you doing this?
474
00:24:28,662 --> 00:24:29,356
No.
475
00:24:29,458 --> 00:24:32,025
I did this in this one room
that I told your mother,
476
00:24:32,524 --> 00:24:34,300
"That's my room,
don't go in there."
477
00:24:34,399 --> 00:24:37,128
This does not require
a great deal of skill.
478
00:24:37,225 --> 00:24:39,216
You need a little bit more.
479
00:24:41,608 --> 00:24:43,820
And then we make a
dirty rock out of it.
480
00:24:43,917 --> 00:24:46,206
You know, the whole
idea is to use something
481
00:24:46,311 --> 00:24:48,561
that's so simple that
nobody could even think
482
00:24:48,658 --> 00:24:50,550
that it's something
special, you know?
483
00:24:50,649 --> 00:24:54,994
Okay, so when you go
and you put this rock
484
00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:59,512
at your location, if you
recognise that somebody
485
00:24:59,610 --> 00:25:01,345
is following you,
were you trained
486
00:25:01,446 --> 00:25:04,052
on how to evade
somebody on foot?
487
00:25:04,153 --> 00:25:06,245
If I'm trying to do
an operation,
488
00:25:06,345 --> 00:25:07,755
I abort the operation.
489
00:25:07,858 --> 00:25:09,470
And I don't panic.
490
00:25:09,571 --> 00:25:12,697
Next thing is I go home and
see whether there was sign
491
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,129
that somebody was
going through my stuff.
492
00:25:16,225 --> 00:25:18,197
And when there
was clear evidence
493
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,024
that I was being investigated,
494
00:25:21,128 --> 00:25:23,954
I had a pretty
brilliant escape plan.
495
00:25:25,629 --> 00:25:30,666
I would load my bicycle into
the trunk of my hatchback
496
00:25:30,764 --> 00:25:34,870
and drive to a road
adjacent to a park.
497
00:25:35,907 --> 00:25:39,091
There was a bike path,
maybe a quarter mile.
498
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,114
Go through that park.
499
00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:45,461
Come out on the other side.
500
00:25:46,816 --> 00:25:48,786
There was a subway station.
501
00:25:48,884 --> 00:25:50,876
Dive into the
subway and I'm gone.
502
00:25:51,913 --> 00:25:54,182
Go to Canada via train.
503
00:25:56,536 --> 00:25:59,259
I also had escape documents.
504
00:25:59,364 --> 00:26:00,404
They were false documents.
505
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,240
I had a Canadian passport
and driver's license.
506
00:26:04,241 --> 00:26:05,535
Do you think you
would have started
507
00:26:05,536 --> 00:26:07,190
over completely there and...
508
00:26:07,288 --> 00:26:10,177
No, I would have joined
my family and I don't know.
509
00:26:10,278 --> 00:26:12,605
Oh, you would have used
Canada to go back to Germany?
510
00:26:12,706 --> 00:26:14,699
Oh sure.
511
00:26:15,295 --> 00:26:17,228
So this is where
I'm coming to terms
512
00:26:17,326 --> 00:26:19,934
with this whole thing,
because that escape,
513
00:26:20,036 --> 00:26:23,302
if you had to use it and
you had to go to Canada,
514
00:26:25,087 --> 00:26:26,287
we wouldn't be here right now.
515
00:26:26,288 --> 00:26:28,364
Possibly you
wouldn't even be alive.
516
00:26:29,394 --> 00:26:30,374
Or,
517
00:26:30,471 --> 00:26:32,999
or we wouldn't know
each other, yeah sure.
518
00:26:33,103 --> 00:26:35,211
Wow, that's just crazy.
519
00:26:40,393 --> 00:26:42,701
Yeah, I didn't expect that.
520
00:26:44,134 --> 00:26:47,499
When my dad came to the US,
it wasn't really his goal
521
00:26:47,603 --> 00:26:49,095
to have a family here.
522
00:26:49,192 --> 00:26:51,045
Eventually, he
was gonna go back.
523
00:26:51,144 --> 00:26:52,960
I was torn, you know,
524
00:26:53,057 --> 00:26:55,105
I have a child here and
I have a family there.
525
00:26:55,210 --> 00:26:58,536
This was for my own
personal self-interest.
526
00:26:58,634 --> 00:27:02,259
I should have left
you and I didn't.
527
00:27:03,374 --> 00:27:05,228
If I go back, I'm a hero.
528
00:27:05,326 --> 00:27:06,817
The Russians
promised me a house.
529
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,451
Everything would
have been great.
530
00:27:08,552 --> 00:27:13,530
If I stay, I have
possibly the FBI after me,
531
00:27:14,088 --> 00:27:16,081
the KGB after me,
532
00:27:16,681 --> 00:27:18,449
and ultimately you won.
533
00:27:18,548 --> 00:27:20,201
It was close, I
have to admit it,
534
00:27:20,306 --> 00:27:22,751
it was really
close, but you won.
535
00:27:22,853 --> 00:27:24,845
You and your mother.
536
00:27:26,795 --> 00:27:29,903
My dad's not perfect, but
when he decided to stay,
537
00:27:30,902 --> 00:27:32,513
he gave it 100%.
538
00:27:32,613 --> 00:27:36,299
He decided to really
stay and be my dad.
539
00:27:36,398 --> 00:27:40,464
And I think I just got very,
very lucky in that regard.
540
00:27:45,549 --> 00:27:48,078
I met Robert Korczak, who
is also the child of a spy,
541
00:27:48,175 --> 00:27:51,501
and I learned how deeply
his family was also affected
542
00:27:51,606 --> 00:27:53,856
by his father's past, but
I wanted to learn more.
543
00:27:53,953 --> 00:27:56,644
So I'm meeting with
Robert's mom, Barbara,
544
00:27:56,741 --> 00:27:59,232
who like my mom, was also
the wife of a spy.
545
00:27:59,328 --> 00:28:03,294
One thing I know about
Barbara, is that she and Boris
546
00:28:03,395 --> 00:28:06,559
are still married, and
they still live under
547
00:28:06,659 --> 00:28:09,107
the same roof so they have
kept their family together and
548
00:28:09,211 --> 00:28:13,335
I'm really interested in
knowing how she's been able
549
00:28:13,432 --> 00:28:15,232
to keep the family
together despite the things
550
00:28:15,306 --> 00:28:18,074
that they've gone
through as a family.
551
00:28:18,173 --> 00:28:20,345
Knowing what you knew
about your husband
552
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,086
being a double agent, did
you ever confront him?
553
00:28:24,190 --> 00:28:30,461
No, because his idea was
that working as a double agent,
554
00:28:30,558 --> 00:28:35,359
he is working his way
that we can go to the
555
00:28:35,461 --> 00:28:38,009
United States and
have better life.
556
00:28:40,359 --> 00:28:44,163
I always felt like we'd
be better, more peaceful,
557
00:28:44,266 --> 00:28:47,586
more quiet, if he had
just regular job
558
00:28:47,691 --> 00:28:49,682
like everybody else.
559
00:28:50,278 --> 00:28:52,490
Why did this happen to me?
560
00:28:52,586 --> 00:28:57,566
Why just me is exposed to
such a strange environment
561
00:28:58,201 --> 00:29:00,336
and strange situations.
562
00:29:00,433 --> 00:29:04,220
I didn't do anything wrong,
but it just happened.
563
00:29:09,634 --> 00:29:13,558
At the same time, I
felt proud of my husband
564
00:29:13,661 --> 00:29:18,058
because he was extraordinary.
565
00:29:18,161 --> 00:29:20,288
He was not like everybody else.
566
00:29:20,393 --> 00:29:23,596
But he was special, and
I like this about him.
567
00:29:23,699 --> 00:29:25,632
But, were you ever
angry with him?
568
00:29:25,728 --> 00:29:28,576
It seems like you were
sad that, you know,
569
00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:29,710
Why did this happen to me?
570
00:29:29,711 --> 00:29:31,882
My mom had the same reaction.
571
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,153
I, I'm not angry with him.
572
00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:38,076
Because he wanted the
best for the family.
573
00:29:39,153 --> 00:29:42,913
Emotionally, I was not
involved with his job
574
00:29:43,018 --> 00:29:45,007
so I was just a bystander.
575
00:29:47,655 --> 00:29:51,961
So my role as a wife
was support him.
576
00:29:56,182 --> 00:30:00,483
And I had to be strong to
keep this family together.
577
00:30:02,155 --> 00:30:07,213
And make them in a
loving environment.
578
00:30:08,771 --> 00:30:11,098
The reason I'm getting
really emotional right now
579
00:30:11,202 --> 00:30:14,225
is because your attitude is
totally different than my mom's.
580
00:30:15,182 --> 00:30:19,068
My mom is the complete
opposite of you
581
00:30:19,165 --> 00:30:21,499
in terms of how she took it.
582
00:30:21,595 --> 00:30:24,365
She was like "Why is
this happening to me?"
583
00:30:24,463 --> 00:30:27,030
"This was not my plan
for my life."
584
00:30:27,135 --> 00:30:30,857
She became angry and bitter
and she never let that go.
585
00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:34,879
It's just the pain
which she has inside
586
00:30:34,982 --> 00:30:37,470
is keeping her away.
587
00:30:37,569 --> 00:30:40,818
Tell her what bothers you.
588
00:30:40,915 --> 00:30:45,514
What is hurting you inside
and ask her the same question.
589
00:30:45,616 --> 00:30:49,741
What is hurting her and
how you two can make up
590
00:30:49,838 --> 00:30:52,704
to have mother-daughter
relationship.
591
00:30:53,903 --> 00:30:56,290
And see how it's going
to work this way.
592
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,771
I really just admired
Barbara for her strength more
593
00:31:00,874 --> 00:31:03,982
than anything and especially
her choice in wanting
594
00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:06,049
to keep the family
together at all costs.
595
00:31:06,148 --> 00:31:11,705
When I talked to her, it really
opened my eyes to the pain
596
00:31:11,810 --> 00:31:14,360
that my mom was going through.
597
00:31:14,456 --> 00:31:17,902
Because of what my dad did,
this had affected my mom
598
00:31:18,007 --> 00:31:22,027
in a way that I just
couldn't understand.
599
00:31:25,931 --> 00:31:28,499
After meeting with Barbara,
and taking in her words
600
00:31:28,603 --> 00:31:31,325
of advice, I'm gonna see
if there is a possibility
601
00:31:31,431 --> 00:31:34,835
to get my mom to open up.
602
00:31:34,931 --> 00:31:36,451
I just wanted to give
you a quick call.
603
00:31:36,527 --> 00:31:41,728
I had this really interesting
meeting with another spouse
604
00:31:41,824 --> 00:31:43,518
of a former spy and...
605
00:31:43,614 --> 00:31:46,902
So what it
has to do with me?
606
00:31:46,999 --> 00:31:53,036
I thought about our talk,
and, and how you processed,
607
00:31:53,133 --> 00:31:58,114
dad being a spy, and how you
were pretty angry with him.
608
00:31:59,114 --> 00:32:02,556
And you're even angry with,
you know, me and Jesse, and...
609
00:32:02,653 --> 00:32:05,228
Everything you
say, it's like, that's your
610
00:32:05,325 --> 00:32:08,211
point of view of
what I'm angry about.
611
00:32:08,315 --> 00:32:10,565
It's not your
father being a spy.
612
00:32:10,662 --> 00:32:12,652
He was a damn liar.
613
00:32:13,172 --> 00:32:14,306
Boris Korczak's wife.
614
00:32:14,411 --> 00:32:16,815
She was in your exact position.
615
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,287
She was in your shoes.
616
00:32:18,393 --> 00:32:21,518
She went through a lot
of, if not almost all
617
00:32:21,617 --> 00:32:23,217
of the same things
that you went through,
618
00:32:23,287 --> 00:32:24,345
based on what you told me.
619
00:32:24,449 --> 00:32:26,136
You don't
have a clue, really,
620
00:32:26,239 --> 00:32:27,970
what I've been through.
621
00:32:28,074 --> 00:32:30,603
He didn't want to
get married to me.
622
00:32:30,699 --> 00:32:31,779
He didn't want to have you.
623
00:32:31,816 --> 00:32:34,324
And then he had this
whole secret background.
624
00:32:35,278 --> 00:32:37,574
I just thought maybe you
would want to talk to me
625
00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:39,364
a little bit about
this stuff, and...
626
00:32:39,365 --> 00:32:40,815
I don't want to
talk to you about anything
627
00:32:40,816 --> 00:32:44,066
because you have been
supporting your father.
628
00:32:44,162 --> 00:32:45,056
He's my father.
629
00:32:45,057 --> 00:32:45,997
And you want
me to tell my story?
630
00:32:45,998 --> 00:32:48,124
Right now I don't give
a about him
631
00:32:48,228 --> 00:32:49,960
and his spy
632
00:32:50,056 --> 00:32:52,949
He's just a big liar.
633
00:32:53,045 --> 00:32:55,133
He never told me he was
married, he never told me
634
00:32:55,239 --> 00:32:57,403
he had children, he just
went through the whole life
635
00:32:57,507 --> 00:33:00,711
with me there with this
big lie hanging behind him.
636
00:33:00,815 --> 00:33:03,940
I don't care anymore
about talking about him
637
00:33:04,037 --> 00:33:05,412
and his bull
638
00:33:05,511 --> 00:33:06,210
Okay?
639
00:33:06,307 --> 00:33:08,278
So I don't need to talk
to you about anything
640
00:33:08,382 --> 00:33:10,074
because you don't understand.
641
00:33:10,172 --> 00:33:12,182
That's just bringing
up a lot of painful,
642
00:33:12,286 --> 00:33:15,132
hurtful memories that I
don't want to talk about.
643
00:33:15,229 --> 00:33:18,835
Okay, Mom, all I
really wanted to do was
644
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:21,864
share the conversation
that I had with Barbara
645
00:33:21,961 --> 00:33:23,815
with you, and if you're not...
646
00:33:23,816 --> 00:33:25,073
Yeah, but I don't
care about these people,
647
00:33:25,074 --> 00:33:25,970
I got my own story.
648
00:33:26,065 --> 00:33:27,124
Can I, can I finish?
649
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:28,037
Can I please finish?
650
00:33:28,136 --> 00:33:29,795
If you are not ready
to talk about it,
651
00:33:29,893 --> 00:33:32,065
we can just try another time.
652
00:33:32,161 --> 00:33:33,691
I don't even
want to try anytime.
653
00:33:33,795 --> 00:33:35,047
How about that?
654
00:33:35,152 --> 00:33:37,161
Okay, Mom.
655
00:33:37,258 --> 00:33:38,432
Have a good night.
656
00:33:38,536 --> 00:33:40,527
Bye bye.
657
00:33:47,739 --> 00:33:48,939
I think after that phone call,
658
00:33:49,008 --> 00:33:51,739
I'm not going to try anymore.
659
00:33:51,838 --> 00:33:54,411
And I think she's made it
pretty clear to me that
660
00:33:54,508 --> 00:33:56,402
she's not ready to forgive.
661
00:33:56,499 --> 00:33:58,729
She's not ready to open up.
662
00:33:58,835 --> 00:34:01,124
She's not ready to move on.
663
00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:03,652
You can't help someone that
doesn't want to be helped.
664
00:34:04,527 --> 00:34:06,518
And she's just not ready.
665
00:34:10,819 --> 00:34:14,502
In a traditional family
dynamic, you may not
666
00:34:14,605 --> 00:34:16,337
have this kind of drama.
667
00:34:16,435 --> 00:34:20,002
But, this drama was brought
on because of the fact
668
00:34:20,102 --> 00:34:22,093
that my dad was a spy.
669
00:34:24,990 --> 00:34:27,918
My dad sent me an email
recently and not just to me.
670
00:34:28,017 --> 00:34:30,008
He sent it to the whole family.
671
00:34:30,802 --> 00:34:34,052
He actually opens up
the email with saying that,
672
00:34:34,151 --> 00:34:37,078
"Today, I got my second of
15 radiation treatments
673
00:34:37,177 --> 00:34:39,029
for prostate cancer.
674
00:34:39,124 --> 00:34:40,484
I really did not
want to mention it
675
00:34:40,485 --> 00:34:43,691
because it is all under control
and you should not worry."
676
00:34:43,788 --> 00:34:47,235
He ended the email by
saying, "Sorry for all the
677
00:34:47,337 --> 00:34:50,142
medical stuff, but like
an older model car,
678
00:34:50,243 --> 00:34:52,493
us veterans must spend a
bit more time in the shop.
679
00:34:52,593 --> 00:34:54,584
Love you all, Dad."
680
00:34:55,740 --> 00:34:58,686
I had no idea he had cancer
and I couldn't believe that
681
00:34:58,790 --> 00:35:00,820
he would even announce
that in an email.
682
00:35:03,646 --> 00:35:05,637
So, what's up?
683
00:35:06,317 --> 00:35:08,308
I got your email.
684
00:35:11,616 --> 00:35:12,576
All right, so I'm sorry.
685
00:35:12,652 --> 00:35:15,299
I should have probably
told you earlier that
686
00:35:15,396 --> 00:35:16,415
something was going on.
687
00:35:16,512 --> 00:35:19,043
I was actually trying
to keep it a secret.
688
00:35:19,143 --> 00:35:22,030
I didn't respond
to the email
689
00:35:22,128 --> 00:35:25,235
because I was pissed that
you didn't tell me.
690
00:35:25,753 --> 00:35:28,125
You know, I didn't feel like
telling you because to me
691
00:35:28,227 --> 00:35:30,076
it's almost like a non-issue.
692
00:35:30,177 --> 00:35:31,110
I understand, cancer...
693
00:35:31,213 --> 00:35:32,905
How do you think
that's a non-issue?
694
00:35:33,003 --> 00:35:33,660
It's cancer.
695
00:35:33,762 --> 00:35:35,253
Yes, I'm taking
things too lightly.
696
00:35:35,357 --> 00:35:40,174
I have always
lived without fear.
697
00:35:41,168 --> 00:35:43,302
And I'm not afraid of this either.
698
00:35:43,402 --> 00:35:45,732
How can you operate
undercover for 10 years
699
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:48,119
and be afraid every day
that you might go to jail
700
00:35:48,223 --> 00:35:50,610
or that somebody might
do something bad to you?
701
00:35:52,125 --> 00:35:54,973
This fearlessness is the way
I'm wired, fundamentally,
702
00:35:55,070 --> 00:35:58,477
and you operate like an
island, an emotional island.
703
00:35:58,579 --> 00:36:00,848
That's part of my baggage.
704
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,669
It's just not a normal thing.
705
00:36:04,772 --> 00:36:07,678
To have no feelings and no fear.
706
00:36:09,669 --> 00:36:11,326
That's not normal.
707
00:36:11,424 --> 00:36:15,151
You know, this has developed
into a pattern, with you.
708
00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:18,535
You told me, on my way to
school, that, you know, you were a spy,
709
00:36:18,634 --> 00:36:22,834
and you just kind of dropped me
off and said, you know, "Okay, go on,
710
00:36:22,937 --> 00:36:24,928
about your day."
711
00:36:25,446 --> 00:36:27,218
I wasn't able to
focus because I spent
712
00:36:27,317 --> 00:36:29,446
so much time processing it.
713
00:36:29,549 --> 00:36:31,477
And it affected me.
714
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:35,263
And, fast-forward to now,
you tell me after the fact
715
00:36:35,361 --> 00:36:39,245
that you have prostate
cancer again thinking that it
716
00:36:39,348 --> 00:36:41,401
was not going to affect
me, and it did affect me
717
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,062
and that's why I'm asking
you to, in the future,
718
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,486
do better at telling me
before it becomes a thing
719
00:36:48,589 --> 00:36:50,602
that I will get
really upset about.
720
00:36:50,701 --> 00:36:55,580
All right, um, if... if you
721
00:36:55,678 --> 00:36:57,611
want me to feel guilty,
722
00:36:57,709 --> 00:37:01,870
you just achieved that.
723
00:37:01,973 --> 00:37:03,308
My dad still doesn't get it.
724
00:37:03,406 --> 00:37:07,093
He can't seem to break this
spy mode and just be my dad.
725
00:37:07,192 --> 00:37:09,678
Everything is a mission
and a strategy with him.
726
00:37:09,781 --> 00:37:12,227
I just want him to see that
his actions have consequences
727
00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:14,437
for those who love him like me.
728
00:37:15,317 --> 00:37:16,334
I'll let you know.
729
00:37:16,433 --> 00:37:17,924
I'll keep you more informed.
730
00:37:18,026 --> 00:37:20,017
I promise.
731
00:37:26,861 --> 00:37:29,111
Today I'm going to
meet with Boria Sax,
732
00:37:29,209 --> 00:37:32,973
who's the son of Saville
Sax, who was a spy.
733
00:37:33,071 --> 00:37:34,169
Are you Boria?
734
00:37:34,267 --> 00:37:34,968
I sure am.
735
00:37:35,067 --> 00:37:36,401
I'm Chelsea,
its nice to meet you.
736
00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:38,491
Actually, I give hugs.
737
00:37:47,973 --> 00:37:49,584
How did you find out?
738
00:37:49,683 --> 00:37:52,968
I found out from a journalist.
739
00:37:53,071 --> 00:37:55,638
I was well into middle age.
740
00:37:55,736 --> 00:37:59,183
It was very hard for me to
talk about it to anybody.
741
00:37:59,285 --> 00:38:02,687
Eventually, the desire to know,
742
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:05,915
overcame all of my hesitations.
743
00:38:06,017 --> 00:38:10,000
Things from my childhood
started to make sense.
744
00:38:11,151 --> 00:38:14,718
When I was growing up, there
were all sorts of tensions
745
00:38:14,821 --> 00:38:16,473
in my home.
746
00:38:16,571 --> 00:38:21,611
People were following
my parents around.
747
00:38:21,709 --> 00:38:25,392
That's why this spy
thing is so distressing.
748
00:38:25,495 --> 00:38:29,794
It tells you that the world
isn't what you think it is.
749
00:38:31,870 --> 00:38:34,834
When I found out that my
dad was a former KGB agent,
750
00:38:34,937 --> 00:38:36,745
I had a moment where I thought,
751
00:38:36,848 --> 00:38:39,875
is he who he presented
himself to me to be?
752
00:38:40,830 --> 00:38:43,718
There's just so
much role playing.
753
00:38:43,817 --> 00:38:45,749
So many disguises.
754
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:50,828
That finally you have
to dig very intensely
755
00:38:51,502 --> 00:38:54,990
to find the real human
being beyond all that.
756
00:38:55,091 --> 00:38:59,609
Were you ever able to
uncover that about your father?
757
00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:02,798
When I finally
found out about this,
758
00:39:02,895 --> 00:39:05,444
he had been dead for some time.
759
00:39:07,435 --> 00:39:11,560
What I saw in Boria Sax
was a sadness in his eyes
760
00:39:11,658 --> 00:39:13,633
that made me feel
really terrible for him
761
00:39:13,734 --> 00:39:17,734
because he has never been
able to have a conversation
762
00:39:17,837 --> 00:39:19,886
with his dad about it.
763
00:39:19,984 --> 00:39:23,109
And I'm able to get the answers
that I need out of my dad
764
00:39:23,212 --> 00:39:25,203
because my dad is still here.
765
00:39:26,401 --> 00:39:27,892
I just found out
my dad has cancer
766
00:39:27,993 --> 00:39:30,721
and I need to talk to him
while I still have the chance.
767
00:39:30,819 --> 00:39:33,252
He needs to know that
his spy life has hurt me.
768
00:39:41,136 --> 00:39:43,726
I'm trying to create an
environment with my dad
769
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:46,677
where we can actually
talk to each other about
770
00:39:46,775 --> 00:39:49,543
some of the more difficult
topics that we've
771
00:39:49,637 --> 00:39:50,837
never been able to talk about.
772
00:39:50,838 --> 00:39:54,101
Particularly, that his actions
as a spy has affected me.
773
00:39:55,619 --> 00:40:00,598
The things that you
were doing as a spy.
774
00:40:00,954 --> 00:40:05,440
You might think that
this didn't have any
775
00:40:05,537 --> 00:40:09,443
affect on the family
like me or Jesse.
776
00:40:12,028 --> 00:40:14,916
You weren't directly
impacted because it wasn't
777
00:40:15,019 --> 00:40:19,101
like I was absent for
long periods of time.
778
00:40:19,102 --> 00:40:20,353
You remember I was always there.
779
00:40:20,354 --> 00:40:22,208
I was always supportive, right?
780
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:25,833
The things that you did may
not have impacted me directly,
781
00:40:25,934 --> 00:40:30,851
but they certainly
impacted me psychologically
782
00:40:30,952 --> 00:40:33,001
and emotionally and
these are things
783
00:40:33,104 --> 00:40:35,095
that I'm only now realising.
784
00:40:38,162 --> 00:40:43,019
I can only say to everybody
who I hurt, I'm sorry.
785
00:40:45,568 --> 00:40:46,784
I can't, I can't.
786
00:40:46,885 --> 00:40:47,900
I didn't intend to.
787
00:40:48,001 --> 00:40:49,613
You know that.
788
00:40:49,711 --> 00:40:52,800
And it's one thing to analyse
and to figure out, you know,
789
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:53,876
where that comes from.
790
00:40:53,976 --> 00:40:56,702
It's another thing
to live the life that
791
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,784
you think you want to
live as a good person.
792
00:41:02,894 --> 00:41:04,891
And that's what
I'm trying to do.
793
00:41:06,403 --> 00:41:08,534
I'm very glad that I've
been able to tell him
794
00:41:08,635 --> 00:41:10,644
I'm feeling a certain
way and I'm glad he was
795
00:41:10,742 --> 00:41:12,001
willing to listen.
796
00:41:12,101 --> 00:41:17,077
And I feel a lot more comfortable
with myself knowing
797
00:41:17,796 --> 00:41:22,595
what I know now about my dad
and what his intentions were.
798
00:41:22,693 --> 00:41:25,742
So, Dad, this has been
really helpful for me
799
00:41:25,842 --> 00:41:30,818
to be able to tell you, you know, what
I think and how I feel.
800
00:41:31,659 --> 00:41:34,666
And this is a conversation
we've never had before.
801
00:41:34,766 --> 00:41:39,425
So, um, so thank you for
listening to me.
802
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:41,635
All right girl, baby.
803
00:41:41,733 --> 00:41:48,684
Even though, you know, you're so big,
you know, you're still my baby.
804
00:41:48,787 --> 00:41:49,403
All right.
805
00:41:50,101 --> 00:41:52,212
- Love you dad.
- I love you.
806
00:42:00,242 --> 00:42:02,570
I reached out to dozens
of children of spies,
807
00:42:02,668 --> 00:42:05,877
but the majority of them
declined to tell their stories.
808
00:42:06,671 --> 00:42:09,084
But, I've been able to
meet some amazing people
809
00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:11,176
who I share a unique bond with.
810
00:42:12,287 --> 00:42:14,278
They've helped me
realise I'm not alone.
811
00:42:15,712 --> 00:42:18,403
No matter what country
a spy is working for,
812
00:42:18,502 --> 00:42:21,671
the lies, the danger,
the lost sense of identity
813
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:24,595
are passed onto
us, their children.
814
00:42:26,229 --> 00:42:28,162
Some of us are separated
from our families
815
00:42:28,261 --> 00:42:29,953
or forced into
witness protection.
816
00:42:30,055 --> 00:42:32,743
Others go into hiding
to escape the scrutiny
817
00:42:32,843 --> 00:42:33,979
of their parents' actions.
818
00:42:34,078 --> 00:42:36,410
Espionage creates many victims.
819
00:42:36,508 --> 00:42:39,377
But the children of spies
are among the innocent.
820
00:42:41,247 --> 00:42:43,238
Are we able to help them?
821
00:42:44,078 --> 00:42:46,104
Can they ever come
out of the shadows?
63559
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