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This film begins with a book.
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The kind you find displayed
next to the register,
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00:00:44,872 --> 00:00:47,081
an impulse buy for
uncertain times.
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00:00:48,565 --> 00:00:50,912
The dystopian book of the week,
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00:00:50,947 --> 00:00:54,537
suggested reading for
the coming catastrophe.
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The cover catering to our
deepest fears and anxieties.
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The title loudly
promising answers
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00:01:01,061 --> 00:01:04,202
to urgent questions
during daily commutes.
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The Meaning Of
Hitler by Sebastian Haffner.
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"Chaos."
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Hitler never had nor
sought an occupation;
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on the contrary,
he positively avoided one.
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His shyness of occupation
is as striking a trait
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00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:28,295
as his shyness
of marriage or intimacy.
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He did not wish to be the
first servant of the state
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but der Fuührer,
an absolute master.
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And he perceived correctly that
absolute rule was not possible
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in an intact state organism
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but only amidst
controlled chaos.
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That was why from the outset,
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"he replaced the states
with chaos."
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You undermine the
institutions of the state
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because that magnifies
your own position.
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Everything's dependent on you.
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00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:06,712
You might as well get onto
his similarities with Trump.
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00:02:06,747 --> 00:02:09,750
We begin with
the novelist Martin Amis.
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00:02:09,784 --> 00:02:12,787
He's been thinking about
Hitler a lot lately.
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The similarities are,
in fact, an odd lot
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00:02:14,651 --> 00:02:17,930
between Trump and Hitler.
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Fanatical cleanliness
is one trait
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and, of course,
lying is another.
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Here was a head of state
who didn't mind lying.
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There is no downside to lying.
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It's terrific at first
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because it looks for a moment
as if everything is possible.
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My understanding is
you wanna clear the air
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'cause you think you're
being unfavorably compared
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to Donald Trump.
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Don't get me wrong, Conan.
I agree with a lot he says, a lot.
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00:02:49,514 --> 00:02:52,965
Like 90% of what he says,
I'm like, "This guy gets it."
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00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,622
Okay.
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00:02:54,657 --> 00:02:57,280
Perhaps the most
extraordinary thing about Hitler
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is how he resists understanding.
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00:03:01,871 --> 00:03:05,702
And there's not one historian,
apart from Haffner,
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who claims to understand it.
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Born in Berlin in 1907,
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Sebastian Haffner witnessed
Hitler come to power.
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For Haffner, Hitler was
the original radical loser,
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a man whose whole identity
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00:03:24,549 --> 00:03:26,999
was staked on
a fanatical project,
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born from the radicalization
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of his and his followers'
perceived victimhood.
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00:03:34,766 --> 00:03:37,182
In 1940, Haffner observed
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that for the world to
be done with Hitler,
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it had to kill not just the
man, but the legend as well.
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As the newspaper
Der Spiegel put it,
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- "Hitler is here again."
- Was he a martyr to German nationalism?
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Was he something of
a German Jesse James?
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Fast forward four decades,
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00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:57,582
wary of cultural amnesia,
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00:03:57,616 --> 00:03:59,929
Haffner aimed to
kill the legend.
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00:04:01,793 --> 00:04:06,073
- " Hitler lived
from April 20th, 1889
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until April 30th, 1945.
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For 30 years, he was
an obscure failure.
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00:04:13,114 --> 00:04:16,566
Then almost overnight,
a local celebrity
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and eventually the man
around whom
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the whole of world policy
revolved.
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"How does that go together?"
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Uh, I don't really know.
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I don't think anyone knows.
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00:04:27,957 --> 00:04:29,752
Fortunately,
you cannot put Hitler
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on a psychologist's couch.
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Maybe I could start by the fact
that in the course of history,
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Hitler has been assigned almost any
psychiatric diagnosis that's available.
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Why can't he make appointments
like any normal person?
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Because, my dear Anna,
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00:04:50,945 --> 00:04:53,431
our patient is not
exactly a normal person.
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00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:56,779
Oedipus complex, megalomania.
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00:04:57,469 --> 00:05:01,335
Bipolar disorder or schizophrenic
and also as hysterical.
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00:05:01,370 --> 00:05:05,477
So, I think any psychiatric
diagnosis has been assigned to him.
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00:05:05,512 --> 00:05:07,893
Our understanding
of Hitler is central
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00:05:07,928 --> 00:05:09,792
to our self-understanding.
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00:05:09,826 --> 00:05:13,140
It's a reckoning
you have to make
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00:05:13,174 --> 00:05:16,281
if you're a serious person.
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00:05:16,316 --> 00:05:19,457
And if anyone can advance
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00:05:19,491 --> 00:05:22,805
the understanding of Hitler
by so much as a millimeter,
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00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,842
then that is well
worth undertaking.
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Well, good luck.
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I mean...
He has no... not a chance
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because I think there is
such a num... such a vast
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conjunction of reasons,
of factors.
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00:05:42,307 --> 00:05:43,826
Historians are endlessly arguing
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00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:46,829
about the past
and the meaning of the past.
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There isn't any consensus
on many, many issues.
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It was at this point
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that we began to
question the wisdom
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of making a film called
The Meaning of Hitler,
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because you can't begin to
understand the meaning of Hitler
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00:06:01,913 --> 00:06:06,400
without first understanding
the meaning of history itself.
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00:06:06,435 --> 00:06:08,195
Professor Saul Friedlaänder
would know.
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00:06:08,229 --> 00:06:10,024
He's spent the better
part of his life
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studying Hitler
and the Holocaust.
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00:06:13,027 --> 00:06:15,305
He was born Pavel in Prague,
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baptized Paul in France,
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renamed Shaul in Palestine,
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and is now simply
Saul in California.
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00:06:23,383 --> 00:06:28,526
Understanding Hitler is, in
my opinion, not the problem.
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00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,012
We are drawn towards Nazis
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and towards the
personality of Hitler
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and that, I think,
is the main problem.
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- Heil, do you know me?
- I'm fighting for Germany!
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My whole life has been one
long struggle for Germany!
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Adolf Hitler.
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00:07:22,545 --> 00:07:24,927
Hollywood
has always loved Hitler,
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but the most famous Hitler film
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is the one he commissioned
about himself.
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Triumph of the Will,
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Leni Riefenstahl's
propaganda film
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about the 1934 Nuremberg Rally
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is arguably the most recycled
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and imitated film in history.
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The Nuremberg Rally was
a kind of work of art.
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It was kind of performance art.
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It's very aesthetic.
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The lighting, the fire-lit
faces of those young men.
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When Hitler's plane is coming in,
the shadow of his little plane
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is being cast on the spires
and rooftops of Nuremberg.
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It's pure kitsch.
But if you knew nothing,
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I think you really might
think, "How beautiful."
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00:08:06,693 --> 00:08:09,489
It's like the Rockettes or something.
It's like, you know, Radio City.
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00:08:09,523 --> 00:08:13,458
It's so... I mean, if it's divorced
from its origins and its purpose,
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00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:15,805
it's this kind of
gorgeous pageantry,
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00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,499
but the minute you know anything,
it makes your flesh creep.
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00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:36,170
The Nazis understood
that martyrdom and death
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were much more potent
than "long live life"
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because it was much closer to
religious... to a religious feeling
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and a sense of eternity,
in a way.
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00:08:52,704 --> 00:08:56,536
The Nazis had a feeling
that they were acting
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00:08:57,364 --> 00:09:01,195
in some huge historical play
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00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:03,888
for the future, for history,
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00:09:03,922 --> 00:09:07,201
and then people
will remember this
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00:09:07,236 --> 00:09:10,342
for the next centuries
and centuries.
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00:09:10,377 --> 00:09:14,036
That's the Wagnerian
sense of him.
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He was speaking of a performance
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but a performance for
eternity in a way, you see?
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00:09:21,837 --> 00:09:25,565
Adolf Hitler.
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00:09:25,599 --> 00:09:27,221
If you switch on German TV,
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you have a 95% chance to
get a Hitler documentary.
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- Hitler's Friends.
- Hitler in Private.
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00:09:34,884 --> 00:09:36,403
Hitler's Household.
151
00:09:36,437 --> 00:09:38,198
The Ten Things You
Didn't Know About Hitler,
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00:09:38,232 --> 00:09:40,417
and it's always the ten things
you already know about Hitler.
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00:09:40,441 --> 00:09:42,685
Call it the Hitler Channel.
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00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,723
We've seen Hitler's dogs,
his women, his cars,
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00:09:45,757 --> 00:09:49,416
his food, his generals, his
secretaries, his secret weapons
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00:09:49,450 --> 00:09:52,730
and his drug habits,
never before seen footage
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00:09:52,764 --> 00:09:54,386
in glorious color.
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00:09:54,421 --> 00:09:56,768
Fascinating fascism.
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Has history lost all meaning?
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00:10:02,256 --> 00:10:03,603
Which begs the question,
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00:10:05,087 --> 00:10:07,227
is it possible to
make a film like this
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00:10:07,261 --> 00:10:09,229
without contributing
to the expansion
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00:10:09,263 --> 00:10:11,783
of the Nazi cinematic universe?
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00:10:12,784 --> 00:10:16,098
I mean, the images you can
show are very well known.
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00:10:16,132 --> 00:10:19,066
So, it would be
redundant in many ways
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00:10:19,101 --> 00:10:21,482
and it's all propaganda.
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00:10:26,902 --> 00:10:28,455
After the war,
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00:10:28,489 --> 00:10:31,113
all Nazi monuments
were destroyed,
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00:10:31,147 --> 00:10:33,149
but the images live on,
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00:10:33,184 --> 00:10:37,637
each and every frame
a tribute to Nazism.
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00:10:37,671 --> 00:10:40,640
This is the spell of fascination
we were warned about,
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00:10:40,674 --> 00:10:43,815
where propaganda is
repackaged as reality,
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00:10:43,850 --> 00:10:46,335
sensation is
confused with meaning,
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00:10:46,369 --> 00:10:49,441
and the Nazi past is normalized.
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00:10:49,476 --> 00:10:52,134
- Hitler did nothing wrong.
- Hitler did nothing wrong.
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00:10:52,168 --> 00:10:54,067
Hitler actually wasn't that bad.
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00:10:54,101 --> 00:10:55,378
Hitler was right.
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00:10:57,208 --> 00:10:59,486
What we are saying
is that this image
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00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,974
of National Socialism
and of Hitler,
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00:11:05,009 --> 00:11:09,841
uh, ultimately
has a greater impact
181
00:11:09,876 --> 00:11:15,847
on the minds and the emotions
of younger generations today
182
00:11:15,882 --> 00:11:17,642
than...
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00:11:22,336 --> 00:11:24,891
Is that what you were saying?
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00:11:51,676 --> 00:11:53,333
Momentarily rid of the impulse
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00:11:53,367 --> 00:11:55,197
to make yet another
archival film,
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00:11:56,888 --> 00:12:00,236
we wondered if there
was a better approach.
187
00:12:00,271 --> 00:12:02,342
Perhaps we could come
closer to understanding
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00:12:02,376 --> 00:12:03,377
the meaning of Hitler
189
00:12:03,412 --> 00:12:05,448
if we started at the source.
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00:12:11,075 --> 00:12:12,904
Doöersheim, Austria,
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00:12:12,939 --> 00:12:14,561
Hitler's ancestral village
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00:12:14,595 --> 00:12:16,943
and the source of
much speculation.
193
00:12:17,875 --> 00:12:19,704
Was Hitler abused as a child?
194
00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:22,569
A sexual deviant?
195
00:12:22,603 --> 00:12:25,572
Or was there some dark
secret in his family tree?
196
00:12:26,884 --> 00:12:29,334
To control the many
rumors about his past,
197
00:12:29,369 --> 00:12:31,992
Hitler simply erased it
198
00:12:32,027 --> 00:12:35,271
and Doöersheim was declared
a restricted military area.
199
00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:38,723
But the question remains.
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00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:41,139
What made Hitler Hitler?
201
00:12:41,726 --> 00:12:45,109
Part of the spell
of great evil doers
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00:12:45,143 --> 00:12:48,422
is that they do have this
capacity to astonish.
203
00:12:48,457 --> 00:12:51,460
And you can't believe
anyone's going to behave
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00:12:51,494 --> 00:12:57,224
as demonically as that
205
00:12:57,259 --> 00:13:01,263
and that in itself
confers a kind of aura.
206
00:13:01,297 --> 00:13:03,092
"Hitler's life lacked everything"
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00:13:03,127 --> 00:13:06,095
that normally lends
weight, warmth, and dignity
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00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:07,579
to a human life.
209
00:13:07,614 --> 00:13:09,754
Education, occupation,
210
00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:13,931
love and friendship,
marriage, parenthood.
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00:13:13,965 --> 00:13:15,415
There were a few women,
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00:13:15,449 --> 00:13:17,244
but he treated them as
unimportant
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00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:19,453
"and did not make them happy."
214
00:13:20,351 --> 00:13:27,185
He liked his dog,
but tested a cyanide pill on it.
215
00:13:27,668 --> 00:13:34,330
He got married 24 hours before he and his
wife went through with a suicide pact.
216
00:13:34,365 --> 00:13:37,299
I mean, it's almost like
a travesty
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00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:39,819
of what human relationships are.
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00:13:41,475 --> 00:13:43,443
"Hitler had no friends."
219
00:13:43,477 --> 00:13:47,171
He enjoyed sitting for hours
on end with subordinate staff,
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00:13:47,205 --> 00:13:49,829
drivers, bodyguards,
secretaries,
221
00:13:49,863 --> 00:13:52,348
but he alone did
all the talking.
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00:13:54,385 --> 00:13:57,802
He refused to think
beyond his own lifespan.
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00:13:57,837 --> 00:14:00,356
Everything had to
happen through himself.
224
00:14:01,495 --> 00:14:03,463
A continuous
readiness for suicide
225
00:14:03,497 --> 00:14:07,501
accompanied Hitler throughout
his political career.
226
00:14:07,536 --> 00:14:10,125
And at its end, almost
as a matter of course,
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00:14:10,159 --> 00:14:12,058
"stood a real suicide."
228
00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:17,960
Yeah, we are standing here
in the middle of Berlin.
229
00:14:17,995 --> 00:14:21,136
That's the Holocaust
Shoah Memorial over there
230
00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:23,034
and here's the Mall of Berlin.
231
00:14:23,069 --> 00:14:26,313
And yeah, this is
just a parking lot
232
00:14:26,348 --> 00:14:31,249
with very unspectacular
prebuilt houses
233
00:14:31,698 --> 00:14:36,116
and, well, somewhere
down below the ground is the...
234
00:14:38,532 --> 00:14:40,051
My name is Enno Lenze
235
00:14:40,086 --> 00:14:42,743
and I run the
Berlin Story Bunker
236
00:14:42,778 --> 00:14:45,850
and the documentation
Hitler How Could It Happen?
237
00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,888
I'm doing a lot of tours
with school classes here
238
00:14:48,922 --> 00:14:53,030
and if you were born
like in the year 2000,
239
00:14:53,064 --> 00:14:55,204
then it was 55 years ago.
240
00:14:55,239 --> 00:14:57,206
So, it's like dinosaurs for you
241
00:14:57,241 --> 00:14:59,415
and you would say, "What
do I have to do with it?"
242
00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:02,073
Because you have never
heard of any war.
243
00:15:02,108 --> 00:15:05,559
Often we really have to
explain what a war is
244
00:15:05,594 --> 00:15:08,562
and what a bunker is
because they think a bunker
245
00:15:08,597 --> 00:15:12,773
is a place which rich
people buy to set up lofts.
246
00:15:12,808 --> 00:15:15,569
But there are many
questions like this like,
247
00:15:15,604 --> 00:15:17,433
"Were you forced to be a Nazi?"
248
00:15:17,468 --> 00:15:21,368
Or, especially, from
the US, people ask us,
249
00:15:21,403 --> 00:15:25,579
"Why were the Nazis
able to invade Germany?"
250
00:15:25,614 --> 00:15:28,272
So, yeah, we're already
beyond that point
251
00:15:28,306 --> 00:15:31,033
that people lost the
meaning of Hitler
252
00:15:31,068 --> 00:15:33,933
and it's really often
several times a day
253
00:15:33,967 --> 00:15:38,075
that people ask us about,
"Are you sure that he's dead?"
254
00:15:38,109 --> 00:15:42,320
If he's still alive, he doesn't
have jaws and teeth, so...
255
00:15:42,355 --> 00:15:45,116
I'm Mark Benecke
and I'm a forensic biologist.
256
00:15:45,151 --> 00:15:47,567
In the Fuührerbunker, there
was one room and it had a sofa
257
00:15:47,601 --> 00:15:50,259
and on the sofa Hitler
and his wife, Eva Hitler,
258
00:15:50,294 --> 00:15:51,295
were just sitting
259
00:15:51,329 --> 00:15:52,952
and then they killed themselves
260
00:15:52,986 --> 00:15:57,957
by taking a cyanide capsule
and shooting themselves.
261
00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:13,973
Stalin first said that Hitler poisoned
himself, his words, "like a wife."
262
00:16:14,007 --> 00:16:16,596
Some people think that females
have a tendency to use poison
263
00:16:16,630 --> 00:16:18,115
to kill themselves.
264
00:16:18,149 --> 00:16:22,291
Instead of soldiers,
especially leading soldiers,
265
00:16:22,326 --> 00:16:25,915
officers who are supposed
to kill themselves
266
00:16:25,950 --> 00:16:27,676
manly with a bullet.
267
00:16:33,647 --> 00:16:35,615
Many people think that
once you take cyanide,
268
00:16:35,649 --> 00:16:36,996
it's like in a movie.
269
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:38,628
Your eyes start to roll,
which they don't,
270
00:16:38,652 --> 00:16:41,621
or you gasp or you move.
271
00:16:41,655 --> 00:16:44,175
None of this happens.
You just suffocate
272
00:16:44,210 --> 00:16:47,489
because the oxygen cannot bind to
your blood anymore and then you die.
273
00:16:47,523 --> 00:16:48,800
So, during that time,
274
00:16:48,835 --> 00:16:50,630
you can still shoot,
275
00:16:50,664 --> 00:16:52,149
write a letter or
do whatever you want
276
00:16:52,183 --> 00:16:53,633
for half a minute or a minute.
277
00:16:53,667 --> 00:16:54,841
Now, darling.
278
00:16:56,670 --> 00:16:58,327
Afterwards, Hitler
was taken outside
279
00:16:58,362 --> 00:16:59,811
and wrapped in a blanket
280
00:16:59,846 --> 00:17:00,996
and then they burned the body
281
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:02,883
because Hitler was very afraid
282
00:17:02,918 --> 00:17:07,716
that his body would be
presented like a loser.
283
00:17:08,889 --> 00:17:11,685
So, he said, "Okay, just destroy
my body." It's very child-like.
284
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,653
You know, like,
"Okay, I don't want to be shown."
285
00:17:13,687 --> 00:17:16,483
"So, burn me."
286
00:17:16,518 --> 00:17:17,898
But that it was just him.
287
00:17:19,176 --> 00:17:21,868
There was a lot of
childishness in Hitler.
288
00:17:21,902 --> 00:17:27,391
Suicidal ideation, as they
call it, was always with him.
289
00:17:28,185 --> 00:17:30,808
He just...
It's the answer to everything.
290
00:17:30,842 --> 00:17:32,499
The tap doesn't work.
291
00:17:32,534 --> 00:17:33,673
I know what I'll do.
292
00:17:33,707 --> 00:17:35,709
I'll blow my brains out.
293
00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:41,543
Did you ever notice
how the door always closes
294
00:17:41,577 --> 00:17:45,719
or the camera pans away right
before Hitler pulls the trigger?
295
00:17:45,754 --> 00:17:47,997
- Why does Hollywood
grant Hitler
296
00:17:48,032 --> 00:17:49,689
the kind of honorable death
297
00:17:49,723 --> 00:17:53,244
that is never given
to his victims?
298
00:17:53,279 --> 00:17:57,248
We see them suffer every atrocity
and humiliation on screen,
299
00:17:57,283 --> 00:18:00,596
but Hitler is always allowed
to die on his own terms.
300
00:18:02,426 --> 00:18:05,912
And so, his legend lives on.
301
00:18:46,642 --> 00:18:48,610
Well, we are here in Braunau.
302
00:18:48,644 --> 00:18:51,751
You can hear the bell.
303
00:18:51,785 --> 00:18:55,479
It's number six among
Austrian bell towers.
304
00:18:56,825 --> 00:19:01,968
Braunau is a small town,
about 17,000 inhabitants.
305
00:19:02,451 --> 00:19:05,282
It's close to the
border to Germany.
306
00:19:05,316 --> 00:19:08,008
The house behind me
307
00:19:09,113 --> 00:19:11,150
is the place where
Adolf Hitler was born
308
00:19:11,184 --> 00:19:14,705
on the 20th of April in 1889.
309
00:19:15,188 --> 00:19:20,159
The family lived there for
only a short period of time.
310
00:19:20,676 --> 00:19:24,784
It's sure that he was
born in this building
311
00:19:24,818 --> 00:19:28,615
because there are other
opinions he was born
312
00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:33,310
in another part of this complex,
313
00:19:33,344 --> 00:19:35,553
which was a stable.
314
00:19:36,554 --> 00:19:40,317
You know? A stable birth place?
315
00:19:40,351 --> 00:19:42,526
So...
316
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,356
But it's not true. Um...
317
00:19:45,874 --> 00:19:48,394
- That... it's...
- That would be very convenient, though.
318
00:19:48,428 --> 00:19:49,428
Pardon?
319
00:19:50,879 --> 00:19:52,363
Yeah, yes.
320
00:19:52,398 --> 00:19:54,710
You have the connection
to another.
321
00:19:54,745 --> 00:20:01,855
Yeah, it's... was...
there's a book, uh...
322
00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:06,929
which had the title Braunau,
Bethlehem of the Third Reich.
323
00:20:08,241 --> 00:20:12,832
Mm-hmm. It was an ordinary house
and it was an ordinary family
324
00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:16,353
and he started his life there,
325
00:20:16,387 --> 00:20:20,080
but he did not start his
career as a political criminal,
326
00:20:21,254 --> 00:20:22,704
but it's connected.
327
00:20:22,738 --> 00:20:25,224
You can't separate.
328
00:20:25,258 --> 00:20:30,781
You can't cut his life
from his political career.
329
00:20:31,575 --> 00:20:33,024
This stone was brought here
330
00:20:33,059 --> 00:20:37,546
from the concentration
camp of Mauthausen.
331
00:20:37,581 --> 00:20:43,380
This inscription is from the...
It's the political ideology.
332
00:20:43,414 --> 00:20:46,728
It's the wording of the 1990s.
333
00:20:46,762 --> 00:20:48,937
Maybe now we should have another
334
00:20:48,971 --> 00:20:52,561
because the name Hitler
is not mentioned.
335
00:20:52,596 --> 00:20:55,254
The authorities are
not hiding the fact.
336
00:20:55,288 --> 00:20:59,050
But, uh, in my opinion, they are
not dealing in the proper way.
337
00:20:59,085 --> 00:21:01,915
We have to deal
with the history,
338
00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:06,610
but it's not fixed on
there on some bricks.
339
00:21:07,783 --> 00:21:09,889
It's not only the building.
340
00:21:09,923 --> 00:21:11,546
The building,
it's not as beautiful.
341
00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:13,582
It's not a...
342
00:21:13,617 --> 00:21:17,379
Well, it's a building,
but it's all the connection
343
00:21:17,414 --> 00:21:19,899
in the brains of the
people who are coming here.
344
00:21:19,933 --> 00:21:22,419
That's what we can influence.
345
00:21:24,006 --> 00:21:25,629
Two doors
down from the Hitler house
346
00:21:25,663 --> 00:21:27,803
is an Arab grocery store.
347
00:21:27,838 --> 00:21:31,255
In 2015, Braunau was a hotspot
348
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:34,569
because we had thousands
and thousands of people
349
00:21:34,603 --> 00:21:38,814
from Africa, from Syria,
who wanted to go to Germany.
350
00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:42,439
Well, at this special time,
351
00:21:42,473 --> 00:21:45,131
the people assisted
the immigrants.
352
00:21:45,165 --> 00:21:47,927
They tried to to help them.
353
00:21:47,961 --> 00:21:50,447
They welcome them.
354
00:21:50,481 --> 00:21:52,966
But after a period of time,
355
00:21:53,001 --> 00:21:55,797
people began to think
about the future.
356
00:21:55,831 --> 00:21:58,662
If there really will come
357
00:21:58,696 --> 00:22:00,802
thousands and thousands
of immigrants,
358
00:22:00,836 --> 00:22:02,666
how to deal with this?
359
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,980
People are mostly
afraid of strangers
360
00:22:07,015 --> 00:22:09,845
where there are
very few strangers.
361
00:22:11,191 --> 00:22:14,781
Those people who have no
feelings of their borders
362
00:22:14,816 --> 00:22:20,684
and put the borders of
the country as their own.
363
00:22:21,063 --> 00:22:23,825
So, if you sit somewhere
in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
364
00:22:23,859 --> 00:22:26,137
near of Berlin and the country,
365
00:22:26,172 --> 00:22:30,452
and somebody on the
Italian or Austrian border
366
00:22:30,487 --> 00:22:31,867
is pouring into Germany,
367
00:22:31,902 --> 00:22:34,974
it's a threat to their skin.
368
00:23:07,938 --> 00:23:11,010
It's a nationalist movement.
369
00:23:11,044 --> 00:23:14,013
So, this is, once again,
a movement
370
00:23:14,047 --> 00:23:18,742
to separate one country or
one community from the other.
371
00:23:19,225 --> 00:23:21,503
Of course, this
is connected then
372
00:23:21,538 --> 00:23:27,198
with trying to get a
distance to the Nazi time.
373
00:23:27,233 --> 00:23:30,857
So, what the call the
revision of history
374
00:23:30,892 --> 00:23:34,413
is quite a central element
375
00:23:34,447 --> 00:23:38,727
of right-wing
extremist thinking.
376
00:23:54,087 --> 00:23:56,711
Say it loud, say it clear.
377
00:23:56,745 --> 00:23:59,161
Refugees are welcome here.
378
00:24:15,246 --> 00:24:17,145
Nazis out!
379
00:24:45,691 --> 00:24:48,590
Wird sind das volk,
"we are the people,"
380
00:24:48,625 --> 00:24:50,592
was the rallying cry
of these Germans
381
00:24:50,627 --> 00:24:53,112
that led to the collapse
of the Berlin Wall.
382
00:24:53,146 --> 00:24:54,976
But here the words don't unite.
383
00:24:55,010 --> 00:24:56,840
They divide.
384
00:25:00,499 --> 00:25:03,122
"Luünpresse," the lying press.
385
00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:05,158
The enemy of the people.
386
00:25:05,193 --> 00:25:08,127
This is the language of Nazism.
387
00:25:16,342 --> 00:25:17,826
What is happening now
388
00:25:17,861 --> 00:25:20,829
is the great replacement.
389
00:25:20,864 --> 00:25:24,971
By mass migration,
by failed migration policy
390
00:25:25,006 --> 00:25:26,535
you see a shift in
European demographics
391
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:28,665
in every Western
European nation.
392
00:25:28,699 --> 00:25:31,840
In a few decades, the
populations will be replaced.
393
00:25:31,875 --> 00:25:34,843
Nationalisms look for enemies.
394
00:25:34,878 --> 00:25:38,019
This is true of 2018, '19,
395
00:25:38,053 --> 00:25:42,471
just as it is of the
beginning of the 20th century.
396
00:25:51,895 --> 00:25:54,380
Much has been made
of Hitler's time in Vienna,
397
00:25:54,414 --> 00:25:57,072
especially by Hitler himself.
398
00:25:57,107 --> 00:26:01,042
Hitler lived here,
here, here, here,
399
00:26:01,076 --> 00:26:03,872
and here he lived in
a homeless shelter.
400
00:26:05,425 --> 00:26:09,429
This is the art school he
famously failed to enter twice.
401
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,881
He's an artist,
but a failed artist
402
00:26:12,916 --> 00:26:17,576
and I think that's worth
giving some thought to.
403
00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:23,167
We're in the US Army's
Museum Support Center
404
00:26:23,202 --> 00:26:26,239
at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.
405
00:26:26,274 --> 00:26:27,586
You know the warehouse
406
00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:29,104
at the end of
Raiders of the Lost Ark,
407
00:26:29,139 --> 00:26:31,106
where the US government
stores artifacts
408
00:26:31,141 --> 00:26:32,936
too dangerous to see
the light of day?
409
00:26:34,109 --> 00:26:36,077
This is that place.
410
00:26:38,976 --> 00:26:43,498
So, this is an oversized
head of Adolf Hitler.
411
00:26:44,292 --> 00:26:47,467
It came to us from
the Eagle's Nest.
412
00:26:47,502 --> 00:26:49,953
When this piece was
examined by conservators,
413
00:26:49,987 --> 00:26:56,131
they noted graffiti along
both sides of his neck,
414
00:26:56,166 --> 00:26:59,445
um, and it has been removed.
415
00:26:59,479 --> 00:27:02,413
But at one point, somebody
painted the word "fool"
416
00:27:02,448 --> 00:27:04,208
on one side of his face
417
00:27:04,243 --> 00:27:08,247
and an anatomically correct,
418
00:27:08,281 --> 00:27:12,113
um, phallus on the other side.
419
00:27:12,147 --> 00:27:15,081
So I never know
how to explain that.
420
00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:18,671
You know? A portion of the male
anatomy on the other side of his face.
421
00:27:20,742 --> 00:27:22,917
The army holds nearly 600 pieces
422
00:27:22,951 --> 00:27:26,299
of confiscated art
classified as either propaganda
423
00:27:26,334 --> 00:27:29,095
or dangerously promoting
Hitler and Nazism,
424
00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:31,442
including work
by Hitler himself.
425
00:27:31,477 --> 00:27:34,273
So, the four watercolors
by Adolf Hitler
426
00:27:34,307 --> 00:27:37,138
were a part of Heinrich
Hoffman's collection.
427
00:27:37,172 --> 00:27:40,106
Heinrich Hoffmann was Hitler's
personal photographer.
428
00:27:40,141 --> 00:27:44,317
And at the end of the war,
his collection of photographs
429
00:27:44,352 --> 00:27:46,147
as well as these
four watercolors
430
00:27:46,181 --> 00:27:48,977
were confiscated by the US Army.
431
00:27:49,012 --> 00:27:52,981
This one here is the first
chronologically out of the four.
432
00:27:53,016 --> 00:27:56,813
It was done during his period
as a street artist in Vienna
433
00:27:56,847 --> 00:27:59,505
around 1910 or so.
434
00:27:59,539 --> 00:28:03,129
Um, it portrays, you know,
a random street scene in Vienna.
435
00:28:03,164 --> 00:28:05,649
There is one human figure,
436
00:28:05,684 --> 00:28:08,203
uh, portrayed right
there in the center.
437
00:28:08,238 --> 00:28:10,171
You know,
he has the attention to detail
438
00:28:10,205 --> 00:28:13,174
that you might want to
see in an architect,
439
00:28:13,208 --> 00:28:15,624
um, but, you know, could he
create this
440
00:28:15,659 --> 00:28:17,316
if he was not standing
in front of it
441
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:20,008
or copying from a postcard?
442
00:28:20,043 --> 00:28:21,492
Probably not.
443
00:28:21,527 --> 00:28:24,150
If I were on the board
of the Vienna art school
444
00:28:24,185 --> 00:28:25,807
when he applied,
445
00:28:25,842 --> 00:28:29,984
and if he applied just based
on these four watercolors,
446
00:28:30,018 --> 00:28:34,195
my feedback would be "I wanna
see more variety in your work."
447
00:28:34,713 --> 00:28:37,577
You know, as an artist,
he was not that good.
448
00:28:38,751 --> 00:28:44,412
He could have ended his life
as an unsuccessful artist,
449
00:28:45,758 --> 00:28:47,726
just like Himmler could
have ended his life
450
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,108
as a chicken farmer, which
is something that he studied.
451
00:28:51,764 --> 00:28:55,423
Uh, and Goebbels as a
journalist at some paper.
452
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:58,875
But condition was such
that it made it possible
453
00:28:58,909 --> 00:29:02,637
for people like that to represent
large numbers of people.
454
00:30:39,182 --> 00:30:41,805
"According to
his account inMein Kampf,"
455
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,359
the observation that
Jews were different
456
00:30:44,394 --> 00:30:46,465
was enough for the conclusion,
457
00:30:46,499 --> 00:30:49,330
"'Because they are different,
they have to be removed.'"
458
00:30:49,364 --> 00:30:51,988
A lot of what he talks
about in Mein Kampf
459
00:30:52,022 --> 00:30:56,026
about his earlier life
is invented or imagined.
460
00:30:56,061 --> 00:31:00,203
It's not factually reliable but
it is a clue to his ideology.
461
00:31:00,237 --> 00:31:05,173
You can look at it and see quite a
lot of what he actually believes in.
462
00:31:05,208 --> 00:31:07,175
Hitler believed every word
463
00:31:07,210 --> 00:31:10,834
of what he was saying,
every word.
464
00:31:10,869 --> 00:31:13,043
What is antisemitism?
465
00:31:13,078 --> 00:31:16,495
Antisemitism is a
conspiracy theory.
466
00:31:16,529 --> 00:31:19,360
And when social scientists
talk about conspiracy theories,
467
00:31:19,394 --> 00:31:23,088
they're talking about something
that has no basis in rational fact.
468
00:31:23,571 --> 00:31:26,022
You know, I was... if I was late
to this interview this morning,
469
00:31:26,056 --> 00:31:30,198
and I'd tell you the traffic
on Broadway was horrendous
470
00:31:30,233 --> 00:31:32,683
because they knew I was
coming to this interview
471
00:31:32,718 --> 00:31:34,375
and the antisemites
were out there
472
00:31:34,409 --> 00:31:35,859
to prevent me from getting here,
473
00:31:35,894 --> 00:31:38,689
you'd say, "Cut,
this woman is nuts."
474
00:31:38,724 --> 00:31:40,381
We'll go onto the next person."
475
00:31:44,281 --> 00:31:45,731
You know,
think about the charges
476
00:31:45,765 --> 00:31:48,389
that the antisemite
makes against the Jews.
477
00:31:48,423 --> 00:31:51,944
The Jews are clannish.
The Jews are pushy.
478
00:31:51,979 --> 00:31:54,429
How can you be clannish
and pushy at the same time?
479
00:31:54,464 --> 00:31:59,538
The Jews are all communists, leftists, and
today's Soros, trying to overthrow society.
480
00:31:59,572 --> 00:32:01,585
Well, how can you be a capitalist
and a communist at the same...
481
00:32:01,609 --> 00:32:04,025
It doesn't make sense.
It's irrational.
482
00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:08,547
So, when we try to figure out
483
00:32:08,581 --> 00:32:12,275
where Hitler's
antisemitism came from,
484
00:32:12,309 --> 00:32:13,793
what we're trying to do
485
00:32:13,828 --> 00:32:18,626
is rationally explain
an irrational sentiment.
486
00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:22,457
When people say, "Oh, well, his
mother was treated by a Jewish doctor
487
00:32:22,492 --> 00:32:24,701
and he couldn't save her."
488
00:32:24,735 --> 00:32:26,392
So what?
489
00:32:26,427 --> 00:32:28,439
The minute you're trying to
give a rational explanation
490
00:32:28,463 --> 00:32:30,569
for an irrational sentiment,
491
00:32:30,603 --> 00:32:32,260
you're gonna be lost.
492
00:32:45,929 --> 00:32:47,137
I think we're lost.
493
00:32:51,486 --> 00:32:54,627
"Recently, an English
historian, David Irving,"
494
00:32:54,662 --> 00:32:56,940
has disputed Hitler's
responsibility
495
00:32:56,975 --> 00:32:58,597
for the murder of the Jews,
496
00:32:58,631 --> 00:33:00,323
which Irving claims
497
00:33:00,357 --> 00:33:03,429
was performed by Himmler
on his own initiative
498
00:33:03,464 --> 00:33:05,984
behind Hitler's back.
499
00:33:06,018 --> 00:33:08,331
"Irving's thesis is untenable."
500
00:33:08,365 --> 00:33:11,334
I'll offer you $1,000
if you can prove that
501
00:33:11,368 --> 00:33:14,613
there's even one page,
one wartime page
502
00:33:14,647 --> 00:33:16,649
showing Adolf Hitler
ordering the extermination,
503
00:33:16,684 --> 00:33:18,617
or even knowing it was
going on, whatever it was,
504
00:33:18,651 --> 00:33:20,308
the extermination of the Jews.
505
00:33:20,343 --> 00:33:22,966
David Irving, please.
506
00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:27,626
David Irving, whom I met
several times way back,
507
00:33:27,660 --> 00:33:30,456
is really not a
serious historian
508
00:33:30,491 --> 00:33:34,460
and already in the
late '70's, early '80's,
509
00:33:34,495 --> 00:33:39,155
David Irving was considered
very close to neo-Nazis,
510
00:33:39,189 --> 00:33:40,915
if not to a neo-Nazi.
511
00:33:40,949 --> 00:33:42,813
In his books on the Nazi era,
512
00:33:42,848 --> 00:33:45,506
British writer David Irving
has argued Adolf Hitler
513
00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:48,129
never ordered the
mass killing of Jews.
514
00:33:48,164 --> 00:33:51,201
His views have endeared him to
neo-Nazis
515
00:33:51,236 --> 00:33:54,653
and gotten him arrested
in Germany and Canada.
516
00:33:54,687 --> 00:33:57,380
He insists Auschwitz
was no death camp
517
00:33:57,414 --> 00:34:00,866
and he's suing an American
author who calls him a liar.
518
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,213
It's an unfortunate
consequence of this trial
519
00:34:03,248 --> 00:34:06,561
that Auschwitz will lose all credibility
by the time the trial is over.
520
00:34:06,596 --> 00:34:09,012
The defendant is
Deborah Lipstadt.
521
00:34:09,047 --> 00:34:13,223
I defended myself with everything
I possibly could... history.
522
00:34:13,258 --> 00:34:14,914
That's how we defended.
523
00:34:14,949 --> 00:34:19,367
We brought historians
into the courtroom
524
00:34:19,402 --> 00:34:23,544
and we followed the footnotes
back to their sources
525
00:34:23,578 --> 00:34:27,858
so that Richard Evans could
say, "It's simply not true."
526
00:34:27,893 --> 00:34:29,860
If you go through, as I did,
527
00:34:29,895 --> 00:34:32,242
saw all his publications
and his speeches,
528
00:34:32,277 --> 00:34:34,555
you can see right to
the very beginning
529
00:34:34,589 --> 00:34:37,730
he tried to exonerate
Hitler all the way through
530
00:34:37,765 --> 00:34:40,078
from any involvement
in the Holocaust
531
00:34:40,112 --> 00:34:44,047
unless it was to try and
stop it or minimize it.
532
00:34:44,082 --> 00:34:46,049
"Hitler was probably
the best friend
533
00:34:46,084 --> 00:34:47,671
that Jews ever had
in the Third Reich,"
534
00:34:47,706 --> 00:34:49,397
he said on one occasion.
535
00:34:49,432 --> 00:34:51,537
And I think he
genuinely believed that.
536
00:34:51,572 --> 00:34:54,747
The court called him
a neo-Nazi polemicist.
537
00:34:54,782 --> 00:34:56,715
The court described his work
538
00:34:56,749 --> 00:34:59,718
as having no facilitated
antisemitism.
539
00:34:59,752 --> 00:35:01,720
The court spoke of his racism.
540
00:35:01,754 --> 00:35:02,893
The verdict will be welcomed
541
00:35:02,928 --> 00:35:04,412
by many around the world,
542
00:35:04,447 --> 00:35:06,380
who see it as a triumph of truth
543
00:35:06,414 --> 00:35:10,246
over attempts to rewrite a
terrible chapter in history.
544
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,110
Irving now says
he will appeal...
545
00:35:12,144 --> 00:35:14,077
You can't
make a film about Hitler
546
00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:16,459
and not talk to his
biggest admirer.
547
00:35:16,493 --> 00:35:19,772
So we reached out to
David Irving for an interview.
548
00:35:19,807 --> 00:35:22,603
He replied with an
email that began,
549
00:35:22,637 --> 00:35:25,088
"You may be a Jew."
550
00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:26,779
He suggested that
we meet in Poland
551
00:35:26,814 --> 00:35:30,093
during one of his so-called
real history tours
552
00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:32,268
through notable Hitler sites.
553
00:36:28,531 --> 00:36:30,084
Yeah. Yeah.
554
00:36:34,157 --> 00:36:35,986
He's a man who,
according to the enemy,
555
00:36:36,021 --> 00:36:40,336
has millions of notches on
his rifle butt so to speak.
556
00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:42,855
Millions of deaths that
he's responsible for.
557
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:45,858
And so, that what's people
know about him.
558
00:36:45,893 --> 00:36:49,724
I announce that if people
can come on the tours
559
00:36:49,759 --> 00:36:53,211
and make up their own minds
and see what they're saying,
560
00:36:53,245 --> 00:36:55,730
see what they see and then
see what they believe.
561
00:36:55,765 --> 00:36:58,871
I don't try and push them
one way or the other.
562
00:36:58,906 --> 00:37:01,011
They're interested in this
man who's been lied about.
563
00:37:01,046 --> 00:37:02,565
They want to see him.
564
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:04,222
They want to see him close up
565
00:37:04,256 --> 00:37:06,016
and this is about as
close up as you get
566
00:37:06,051 --> 00:37:08,053
with Adolf Hitler
and the legend.
567
00:37:08,087 --> 00:37:11,056
Seeing the actual bunkers
where he and his staff lived.
568
00:37:11,090 --> 00:37:13,576
And the interesting thing
is to come and look at it here.
569
00:37:13,610 --> 00:37:15,992
He was protected from the enemy
570
00:37:16,026 --> 00:37:18,546
by these immense concrete walls,
571
00:37:19,754 --> 00:37:21,687
but in the long run,
572
00:37:21,722 --> 00:37:24,897
the truth will filter
through, filter out.
573
00:37:30,558 --> 00:37:33,181
No, Hitchens did, though.
574
00:37:33,216 --> 00:37:34,838
He came to see
Christopher in Washington,
575
00:37:34,873 --> 00:37:36,219
went down in the elevator
576
00:37:36,254 --> 00:37:40,982
with Christopher's
wife and and daughter
577
00:37:41,949 --> 00:37:47,092
and sang a terrible
song to the daughter.
578
00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:51,924
It was a sort of
racist limerick.
579
00:37:51,959 --> 00:37:54,962
- About my little daughter?
- Your not a...
580
00:37:56,412 --> 00:37:58,414
"I am a something-something
Aryan,"
581
00:37:58,448 --> 00:38:00,381
not Jewish or sectarian.
582
00:38:00,416 --> 00:38:04,627
"I have no plans to marry
an ape or Rastafarian."
583
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,253
Christopher's wife, Carol,
who's not easily shocked said,
584
00:38:10,288 --> 00:38:13,774
"Don't ever leave me alone
with that man again."
585
00:38:14,809 --> 00:38:17,571
It was a very good poem
or a very clever poem.
586
00:38:17,605 --> 00:38:19,952
It was so clever. In fact,
I wrote it down in my diary,
587
00:38:19,987 --> 00:38:21,792
which is where the the enemy
found it in the Lipstadt trial,
588
00:38:21,816 --> 00:38:23,301
in my diaries.
589
00:38:23,335 --> 00:38:24,647
And right at the very end,
590
00:38:24,681 --> 00:38:27,305
they kind of dredged
it up as being proof
591
00:38:27,339 --> 00:38:29,341
Mr. Irving being a racist.
592
00:38:29,376 --> 00:38:32,965
In this organized attempt
to smear me into oblivion,
593
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,588
the enemy, as I recall,
594
00:38:34,622 --> 00:38:36,935
traditional enemies
of the truths
595
00:38:36,969 --> 00:38:38,937
have generated... constructed
this picture
596
00:38:38,971 --> 00:38:40,939
of me being a Holocaust denier,
597
00:38:40,973 --> 00:38:42,293
which is a strange
kind of phrase.
598
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,976
I never met this phrase,
Holocaust denier.
599
00:38:44,011 --> 00:38:47,463
It's one of these
artificial kind of phrases.
600
00:38:47,497 --> 00:38:49,119
It means nothing
when you analyze it.
601
00:38:49,154 --> 00:38:51,501
Old-fashioned Holocaust deniers
602
00:38:51,536 --> 00:38:54,642
are essentially
neo-Nazis or neo-fascists.
603
00:38:54,677 --> 00:38:57,680
So, people with ultra
right-wing views,
604
00:38:57,714 --> 00:38:59,337
who are antisemitic
605
00:38:59,371 --> 00:39:03,168
and believe that the Jews
have invented all this...
606
00:39:03,202 --> 00:39:09,692
It is a form of antisemitism,
clothed in historical-like garb.
607
00:39:09,726 --> 00:39:11,832
We're just examining history.
608
00:39:11,866 --> 00:39:14,490
We only wanna get to
the truth in history
609
00:39:14,524 --> 00:39:16,284
and if this history
can be rewritten,
610
00:39:16,319 --> 00:39:18,804
any history can be rewritten.
611
00:39:18,839 --> 00:39:21,473
And we've seen that today. We're
seeing that today in the United States.
612
00:39:21,497 --> 00:39:24,810
We're seeing that today
in parts of Europe
613
00:39:24,845 --> 00:39:28,227
where history just becomes
a political play thing.
614
00:39:28,262 --> 00:39:33,025
And this is what the danger of the
times we are now living through,
615
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:36,374
when the very concept of truth
itself has been questioned.
616
00:39:38,583 --> 00:39:40,457
So, let's take this
a little closer to home, right?
617
00:39:40,481 --> 00:39:42,172
- So, I'm Jewish...
- Mm-hmm.
618
00:39:42,207 --> 00:39:45,037
Um, and there's a set
of people who deny
619
00:39:45,072 --> 00:39:46,522
that the Holocaust
happened, right?
620
00:39:46,556 --> 00:39:48,351
I find that deeply offensive.
621
00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:50,836
But at the end of the day,
622
00:39:50,871 --> 00:39:54,909
I don't believe that our
platform should take that down
623
00:39:54,944 --> 00:39:58,706
because I think that there are things
that different people get wrong.
624
00:39:58,741 --> 00:40:01,191
Um, either...
I don't think that they're
625
00:40:01,226 --> 00:40:03,573
intentionally getting it
wrong, but I think that they...
626
00:40:03,608 --> 00:40:06,069
In the case of the Holocaust
deniers, they might be, but go ahead.
627
00:40:06,093 --> 00:40:09,061
It's hard to impugn intent.
628
00:40:09,786 --> 00:40:12,271
The minute you
give room to people
629
00:40:12,306 --> 00:40:18,899
who are clearly twisting
history and distorting history,
630
00:40:18,933 --> 00:40:21,867
not just a different
interpretation of history,
631
00:40:21,902 --> 00:40:23,731
but such a distortion
632
00:40:23,766 --> 00:40:27,390
and you say, "Oh, everybody's
a right to their opinion."
633
00:40:27,425 --> 00:40:29,530
There are facts,
634
00:40:29,565 --> 00:40:30,842
there are opinions,
635
00:40:30,876 --> 00:40:32,430
and there're lies,
636
00:40:32,464 --> 00:40:33,776
and that's lies.
637
00:40:33,810 --> 00:40:35,881
History is not propaganda.
638
00:40:49,654 --> 00:40:52,967
"During the war,
Hitler was politically happy."
639
00:40:53,002 --> 00:40:57,282
Only his antisemitism
remained unsatisfied
640
00:40:57,316 --> 00:41:02,080
"but otherwise, things went
splendidly well for four years."
641
00:41:02,114 --> 00:41:05,324
He was here in the
chaotic phase of the war.
642
00:41:05,359 --> 00:41:08,742
The war... The front was not
consolidated at that time,
643
00:41:08,776 --> 00:41:10,433
but everything was very chaotic.
644
00:41:10,468 --> 00:41:13,471
There was still very
hard fighting over here.
645
00:41:21,306 --> 00:41:23,584
When we stand here today,
it's a very peaceful,
646
00:41:23,619 --> 00:41:26,138
a very beautiful and
a nice landscape.
647
00:41:26,173 --> 00:41:30,108
It's very difficult
to get in touch
648
00:41:30,142 --> 00:41:32,973
with the atmosphere
of those days.
649
00:41:33,007 --> 00:41:36,666
The noise and the smell
and the war material,
650
00:41:36,701 --> 00:41:41,119
but we still miss
the part of the story.
651
00:41:41,153 --> 00:41:45,641
It's too quiet.
It's too touristic.
652
00:42:01,035 --> 00:42:04,004
In 1940, as the
British evacuated Dunkirk,
653
00:42:04,038 --> 00:42:07,214
Hitler went on a car tour
of World War I sites.
654
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:13,323
Here is the village where
his first wound was treated.
655
00:42:17,327 --> 00:42:19,191
A command bunker.
656
00:42:23,886 --> 00:42:28,476
At one point, he stopped the
car and asked some locals,
657
00:42:28,511 --> 00:42:30,893
"My name is Hitler.
Do you remember me?"
658
00:42:32,515 --> 00:42:34,379
He then visited a cemetery.
659
00:42:51,051 --> 00:42:53,881
- I am blind.
- No organic damage.
660
00:42:53,916 --> 00:42:55,918
No sign of gas poisoning.
661
00:42:55,952 --> 00:42:57,885
His eyes are completely normal
662
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,715
but he insists
that he can't see.
663
00:42:59,749 --> 00:43:01,371
He probably can't.
664
00:43:01,406 --> 00:43:03,408
A case of hysteria, shock.
665
00:43:03,442 --> 00:43:05,203
An emotional, unbalanced mind
666
00:43:05,237 --> 00:43:07,067
retreating into illness.
667
00:43:07,101 --> 00:43:08,896
We know from other documents
668
00:43:08,931 --> 00:43:13,211
that the diagnosis he's
been given was gas poisoning,
669
00:43:13,245 --> 00:43:15,258
but there has been a
tremendous speculation going on
670
00:43:15,282 --> 00:43:19,217
that he was actually being
treated for psychiatric reasons
671
00:43:19,251 --> 00:43:21,944
and the speculation
goes like this.
672
00:43:21,978 --> 00:43:25,085
He underwent
psychiatric treatment
673
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,225
that he had been
hypnotized, actually.
674
00:43:27,259 --> 00:43:28,778
Hypnosis is often effective
675
00:43:28,813 --> 00:43:31,022
in certain types
of battle neuroses,
676
00:43:31,056 --> 00:43:33,265
such as amnesia.
677
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:34,922
Put your mind on going to sleep.
678
00:43:34,957 --> 00:43:37,615
All right.
Now keep your eyes on mine.
679
00:43:37,649 --> 00:43:41,135
Keep your eyes on mine.
Going into a deep, deep sleep.
680
00:43:41,170 --> 00:43:45,277
- Going into a deep, deep sleep...
- Had been suggested that, okay,
681
00:43:45,312 --> 00:43:48,246
a person of exceptional
qualities can overcome
682
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,283
the blindness you suffer from.
683
00:43:51,318 --> 00:43:56,599
And you are this person and
you're born to be Germans' savior
684
00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,428
in the moment of surrender.
685
00:43:58,463 --> 00:44:00,914
This was used to
overcome his blindness,
686
00:44:00,948 --> 00:44:03,744
but it was never
taken back, the hypnosis.
687
00:44:03,779 --> 00:44:07,437
And he acted under
control or manipulated
688
00:44:07,472 --> 00:44:11,925
by the hypnotic suggestion
for which there is
689
00:44:11,959 --> 00:44:14,824
no evidence whatsoever.
690
00:44:14,859 --> 00:44:18,138
We have the desire
to fill in the blanks
691
00:44:18,172 --> 00:44:22,798
and make up stories where we
have no certain knowledge.
692
00:44:22,832 --> 00:44:26,111
But the underlying rationale
is always the same.
693
00:44:26,146 --> 00:44:28,596
It's that of reduced
responsibility.
694
00:44:28,631 --> 00:44:30,253
We have been hypnotized.
695
00:44:30,288 --> 00:44:32,290
He was hypnotized.
696
00:44:32,324 --> 00:44:35,465
So in the end,
it's no one's guilt.
697
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:41,161
It's some obscure illness
or hypnotic process.
698
00:44:41,195 --> 00:44:43,819
People are afraid of identifying
699
00:44:43,853 --> 00:44:46,200
with the Nazis and with Hitler.
700
00:44:46,235 --> 00:44:48,720
But Hitler was a
perfectly normal person.
701
00:44:49,376 --> 00:44:52,206
Uh, his psychological
problems are no different
702
00:44:52,241 --> 00:44:55,313
from those of many
millions of others.
703
00:45:14,056 --> 00:45:17,162
Munich is from the outside,
704
00:45:17,197 --> 00:45:20,510
not much connected
with the Nazi history,
705
00:45:20,545 --> 00:45:23,237
but everything started here.
706
00:45:23,272 --> 00:45:29,727
We are here exactly at
the place where until 1945
707
00:45:29,761 --> 00:45:35,594
was the representative
headquarters of the Nazi Party.
708
00:45:35,629 --> 00:45:39,391
Here we are at the place
of the perpetrators.
709
00:45:39,426 --> 00:45:43,741
And here we do not
want to create empathy.
710
00:45:43,775 --> 00:45:47,365
We do not want to make
an event out of history.
711
00:45:47,399 --> 00:45:51,921
We want to have a
distant, rational approach
712
00:45:51,956 --> 00:45:55,235
so that you can
learn out of history.
713
00:45:55,269 --> 00:46:00,102
We do not want to make
Nazi history interesting.
714
00:46:00,136 --> 00:46:03,381
We do not want to
make it an event.
715
00:46:03,415 --> 00:46:06,246
Hitler started his career here.
716
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,974
Hitler founded the Nazi Party
717
00:46:10,008 --> 00:46:13,253
here in 1920
and he got help from
718
00:46:13,287 --> 00:46:15,980
all different groups of society.
719
00:46:16,774 --> 00:46:20,122
Munich was called the
capital of the movement.
720
00:46:22,158 --> 00:46:23,919
"The party,
when Hitler joined it,"
721
00:46:23,953 --> 00:46:26,300
was an obscure
backroom organization
722
00:46:26,335 --> 00:46:28,786
with a few hundred members
of little importance.
723
00:46:30,304 --> 00:46:32,928
The breakthrough experience
was his own discovery
724
00:46:32,962 --> 00:46:34,757
of his power as an orator,
725
00:46:34,792 --> 00:46:36,621
when with sweeping success,
726
00:46:36,655 --> 00:46:39,797
"he made his first
speech at a mass rally."
727
00:46:39,831 --> 00:46:43,766
So he studied his audience.
728
00:46:43,801 --> 00:46:48,288
And he had all these
kind of ideas about mass.
729
00:46:48,322 --> 00:46:50,428
The mass being feminine,
730
00:46:50,462 --> 00:46:54,259
the mass being easily won over
731
00:46:54,294 --> 00:46:57,607
by a certain way of
addressing the mass,
732
00:46:57,642 --> 00:47:01,301
by the mass being
open to contagion.
733
00:47:01,335 --> 00:47:02,958
When you are in the crowd
734
00:47:02,992 --> 00:47:05,477
and the crowd is very close
735
00:47:05,512 --> 00:47:08,101
and the crowd has this certain
736
00:47:08,135 --> 00:47:10,275
power of changing you,
737
00:47:10,310 --> 00:47:12,622
then it can be like
in a love affair.
738
00:47:12,657 --> 00:47:14,624
You can become another person.
739
00:47:14,659 --> 00:47:18,180
He wanted to whip up
their emotions,
740
00:47:18,214 --> 00:47:21,977
but also tame them
and channel them.
741
00:47:22,011 --> 00:47:24,842
The masses are put into a form
742
00:47:25,566 --> 00:47:27,534
and then they are
no longer a threat.
743
00:47:28,017 --> 00:47:29,777
'Cause that's one thing
that he never wanted.
744
00:47:29,812 --> 00:47:31,538
He didn't want chaos.
745
00:47:31,572 --> 00:47:34,506
Hitler puts those
people into blocks.
746
00:47:34,541 --> 00:47:40,133
They have to... stand like
this on the field in a row,
747
00:47:40,167 --> 00:47:43,446
in a vertical and horizontal
row and all of them,
748
00:47:43,481 --> 00:47:45,379
their gun in the same way.
749
00:47:45,414 --> 00:47:48,486
Blocks and blocks
and blocks and blocks.
750
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,490
A nation of 80 million people
standing in blocks.
751
00:47:52,524 --> 00:47:55,355
That's the fascist fantasy.
752
00:47:55,838 --> 00:47:57,184
He then would give them
753
00:47:57,219 --> 00:47:59,359
an outlet for their emotions
754
00:47:59,393 --> 00:48:01,637
and say, "Well,
look, it's the Jew."
755
00:48:01,671 --> 00:48:03,811
"It's the system." It's...
756
00:48:03,846 --> 00:48:08,506
In this way of talk,
they... smell
757
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:11,026
a proposal, something...
758
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:13,580
There will be the day
you are allowed
759
00:48:13,614 --> 00:48:16,514
to put your structure
into violent actions
760
00:48:16,548 --> 00:48:20,759
and to get in your
own way of big living.
761
00:48:20,794 --> 00:48:25,592
What's threatening them
has to disappear, totally.
762
00:48:26,075 --> 00:48:27,594
You don't have to worry
763
00:48:27,628 --> 00:48:30,045
and you don't have
to think anymore.
764
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:32,392
That is his mastership.
765
00:48:32,426 --> 00:48:34,394
That way he is the
loud speaker of
766
00:48:34,428 --> 00:48:36,534
that what was present
767
00:48:36,568 --> 00:48:38,363
in the German nation,
768
00:48:38,398 --> 00:48:40,089
in the German population.
769
00:48:41,401 --> 00:48:43,921
Oh, you are really
intent in having
770
00:48:43,955 --> 00:48:46,371
good sound of this
microphone already?
771
00:48:46,406 --> 00:48:47,890
Okay, all right.
772
00:48:47,925 --> 00:48:50,548
Believe it or not, there
are still people today
773
00:48:50,582 --> 00:48:53,068
that care about good sounds.
774
00:48:53,102 --> 00:48:58,038
Whether it's Barbra Streisand
or Brian Adams or Adele,
775
00:48:58,073 --> 00:49:01,214
these are all people
that care very much
776
00:49:01,248 --> 00:49:04,734
that their emotional delivery
is translated properly.
777
00:49:04,769 --> 00:49:06,564
And it started with
this microphone.
778
00:49:06,598 --> 00:49:09,256
It started in the late 1920s.
779
00:49:09,291 --> 00:49:11,120
There was all of a
sudden a revolution.
780
00:49:11,155 --> 00:49:15,297
So what we have
here is the CMV3, uh,
781
00:49:15,331 --> 00:49:17,575
sometimes referred to
as the Neumann bottle,
782
00:49:17,609 --> 00:49:20,060
but more often now,
especially in America,
783
00:49:20,095 --> 00:49:23,063
referred to as
the Hitler bottle.
784
00:49:23,098 --> 00:49:25,755
Up to mid 1920s,
785
00:49:25,790 --> 00:49:29,656
the microphones that were
used were carbon microphones.
786
00:49:29,690 --> 00:49:31,934
Little carbon
crystals suspended,
787
00:49:31,969 --> 00:49:35,489
and when they get
excited by audio waves
788
00:49:35,524 --> 00:49:38,630
or by sound waves,
they would generate electricity.
789
00:49:38,665 --> 00:49:42,462
The problem was that you had
to be incredibly close to it.
790
00:49:42,496 --> 00:49:46,121
If you would go even this
far away from the microphone,
791
00:49:46,155 --> 00:49:48,606
the volume would
drop by 50% or more.
792
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,297
So all of a sudden,
793
00:49:50,332 --> 00:49:53,921
Hitler was able to
be more evocative,
794
00:49:53,956 --> 00:49:56,510
more animated in
his delivery because
795
00:49:56,545 --> 00:49:59,272
he wasn't shackled
by the technology.
796
00:49:59,306 --> 00:50:03,621
He could actually use the
technology to help him deliver.
797
00:50:03,655 --> 00:50:06,658
By being able to move,
by being soft,
798
00:50:06,693 --> 00:50:09,661
by being whispering
and then building up
799
00:50:09,696 --> 00:50:13,631
and then getting super loud
and it would still sound good.
800
00:50:13,665 --> 00:50:14,977
I bet you it was
just the same as
801
00:50:15,012 --> 00:50:17,324
when the Beatles
performed at Shea Stadium.
802
00:50:17,359 --> 00:50:19,775
All of a sudden,
there was a dimension
803
00:50:19,809 --> 00:50:22,122
that was part of his delivery,
804
00:50:22,157 --> 00:50:25,539
part of the masses
responding in the same way,
805
00:50:25,574 --> 00:50:28,508
uniformly, that was infectious.
806
00:50:28,542 --> 00:50:31,718
And the microphone was
able to allow that.
807
00:50:33,685 --> 00:50:35,653
Hello.
808
00:50:35,687 --> 00:50:36,826
And it's a feedback.
809
00:50:36,861 --> 00:50:38,311
It goes back and forth
810
00:50:38,345 --> 00:50:41,659
and it builds up and
it gets to a crescendo.
811
00:50:41,693 --> 00:50:43,557
And you see it in the
footage of Hitler.
812
00:50:43,592 --> 00:50:46,388
That was exactly how it worked.
813
00:50:46,422 --> 00:50:49,356
He heard himself also
through the loudspeakers.
814
00:50:49,391 --> 00:50:51,358
They were to the
side of the stage.
815
00:50:51,393 --> 00:50:55,397
That means he also
heard himself amplified.
816
00:50:55,431 --> 00:50:58,158
It's almost like Jimi Hendrix
hearing himself
817
00:50:58,193 --> 00:50:59,539
through a Marshall stack.
818
00:50:59,573 --> 00:51:02,335
That also was a
positive feedback loop
819
00:51:02,369 --> 00:51:03,888
in terms of the performance.
820
00:51:03,922 --> 00:51:06,718
So, that whole technology,
microphone all the way
821
00:51:06,753 --> 00:51:13,035
to the loudspeakers, amplified
the emotional translation
822
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:14,761
of the message.
823
00:51:14,795 --> 00:51:16,521
I don't even know what
that would be now.
824
00:51:16,556 --> 00:51:19,248
Is it Twitter now that
we don't quite get yet,
825
00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:22,562
that some people use very effectively?
I don't know.
826
00:51:22,596 --> 00:51:25,703
So I know a lot about
Twitter and Facebook.
827
00:51:25,737 --> 00:51:30,535
- Actually, somebody said
I'm the Ernest Hemingway
828
00:51:30,570 --> 00:51:33,745
of 140 characters.
Can you believe it?
829
00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:36,231
Also the effect he had on women.
830
00:51:36,265 --> 00:51:40,373
The National Socialists were
the least friendly to women
831
00:51:40,407 --> 00:51:45,378
of all the parties that were
bobbing around in the '20s.
832
00:51:45,412 --> 00:51:51,418
It was a very bad bet for a
woman to be swooning at Hitler.
833
00:51:52,281 --> 00:51:54,421
But swoon they did.
834
00:51:54,456 --> 00:51:56,043
The object of desire,
835
00:51:56,078 --> 00:51:58,598
you can see very good
in pop groups.
836
00:51:58,632 --> 00:52:00,047
The Beatles were
not standing with
837
00:52:00,082 --> 00:52:03,568
their women before the cameras,
838
00:52:03,603 --> 00:52:07,262
when the girls were
shouting and so on.
839
00:52:07,296 --> 00:52:10,886
So, he had to hide his own wife.
840
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,440
Eva Braun didn't
appear in public,
841
00:52:13,475 --> 00:52:18,445
so the place had to be open for
the feelings of the totality
842
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,830
of German women to become
Fuührer's brides in their,
843
00:52:23,864 --> 00:52:26,108
not only fantasy,
in their feeling.
844
00:52:26,143 --> 00:52:27,775
He said, "We were nothing
without your work."
845
00:52:27,799 --> 00:52:29,249
We would be nothing.
846
00:52:29,284 --> 00:52:32,597
It's your economy and
leading the household.
847
00:52:32,632 --> 00:52:35,462
"And that's the way we
have to lead the state."
848
00:52:35,497 --> 00:52:37,154
How despicable can it get?
849
00:52:37,188 --> 00:52:39,673
I mean, it's
something that he...
850
00:52:39,708 --> 00:52:42,952
That's wax, he uses
as wax in his hands,
851
00:52:42,987 --> 00:52:48,510
but that he does
not respect or love.
852
00:52:49,856 --> 00:52:53,894
In a way it's kind of weird
that the masses didn't get that.
853
00:52:55,033 --> 00:52:59,003
He produced his environment
that sustained him
854
00:52:59,037 --> 00:53:03,697
and that confirmed
his quest for power,
855
00:53:03,732 --> 00:53:06,148
um, through all kinds
of mythologies,
856
00:53:06,183 --> 00:53:09,669
but also a kind of
day-to-day consent.
857
00:53:09,703 --> 00:53:14,329
It's consent. He never
found anybody who objected.
858
00:53:14,363 --> 00:53:16,986
They all said, "Well,
we believe you."
859
00:53:17,021 --> 00:53:19,679
We trust you. We love you."
860
00:53:19,713 --> 00:53:21,336
This is a big crowd.
861
00:53:21,370 --> 00:53:23,510
And normally I like
talking about my crowds
862
00:53:23,545 --> 00:53:25,098
'cause I get
crowds like nobody...
863
00:53:26,927 --> 00:53:28,515
"Hitler was all his life"
864
00:53:28,550 --> 00:53:32,139
exceedingly full of himself.
865
00:53:32,174 --> 00:53:34,383
And from his earliest
to his last days
866
00:53:34,418 --> 00:53:36,385
tended to self-conceit.
867
00:53:37,697 --> 00:53:39,526
With the Hitler cult,
868
00:53:39,561 --> 00:53:41,183
Hitler was not only its object,
869
00:53:41,218 --> 00:53:43,703
but also the earliest,
most persistent
870
00:53:43,737 --> 00:53:46,430
"and the most
passionate devotee."
871
00:53:47,948 --> 00:53:53,091
My name is Werner Muüller. I'm the general
manager of Kempinski Hotel, Berchtesgarten.
872
00:54:14,941 --> 00:54:16,736
Obersalzberg had a crucial part
873
00:54:16,770 --> 00:54:20,084
for world history because
Adolf Hitler and some other
874
00:54:20,118 --> 00:54:22,880
leading Nazi figures lived here,
875
00:54:22,914 --> 00:54:25,262
had their private houses.
876
00:54:25,296 --> 00:54:29,921
And also, they made some
crucial decisions here,
877
00:54:29,956 --> 00:54:33,097
which meant the death
of millions of people.
878
00:54:37,308 --> 00:54:41,139
Adolf Hitler and basically his
photographer, Heinrich Hoffman,
879
00:54:41,174 --> 00:54:45,454
they really saw how they
could use this area.
880
00:54:45,489 --> 00:54:48,733
So in 1932, 1933,
881
00:54:48,768 --> 00:54:52,461
they started to make
a lot of pictures here
882
00:54:52,496 --> 00:54:56,741
and to use the area to form
an image of Adolf Hitler
883
00:54:56,776 --> 00:55:02,437
as a person who makes walks
in the nice countryside,
884
00:55:02,471 --> 00:55:06,786
who visits neighbors,
who talks to small children.
885
00:55:06,820 --> 00:55:10,445
So who is the...
Kind of the caring uncle
886
00:55:10,479 --> 00:55:14,103
or he is some kind
of this lonely guy.
887
00:55:14,138 --> 00:55:15,657
He's standing in the mountains
888
00:55:15,691 --> 00:55:18,660
and thinking about
the fate of Germany.
889
00:55:18,694 --> 00:55:21,283
So, basically the
image of the Fuührer,
890
00:55:21,318 --> 00:55:25,183
of the leader, was that
he's kind of omnipotent.
891
00:55:25,218 --> 00:55:27,772
So he can do everything,
he knows everything.
892
00:55:27,807 --> 00:55:29,809
He's an expert in everything.
893
00:55:29,843 --> 00:55:32,259
But what is quite,
it's interesting,
894
00:55:32,294 --> 00:55:34,296
Hitler lived here
in the mountain
895
00:55:34,331 --> 00:55:37,955
and he showed himself in
front of the mountain view,
896
00:55:37,989 --> 00:55:40,164
but he never tried
to make himself
897
00:55:40,198 --> 00:55:42,822
a sports person, for example.
898
00:55:42,856 --> 00:55:45,134
So he didn't go for hikes.
899
00:55:45,169 --> 00:55:48,172
He didn't do any
skiing in the winter.
900
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:53,626
If you see back down there,
you can see the flag.
901
00:55:53,660 --> 00:55:55,006
And behind the flag,
902
00:55:55,041 --> 00:55:57,802
there was some kind
of a small hill
903
00:55:57,837 --> 00:56:00,978
where Hitler used
to go afternoon.
904
00:56:01,012 --> 00:56:02,635
And when he made this walk,
905
00:56:02,669 --> 00:56:05,845
he just walked down and
then they went back by car.
906
00:56:05,879 --> 00:56:08,019
So if he made any walks,
907
00:56:08,054 --> 00:56:10,850
it was always down,
not up the hill.
908
00:56:10,884 --> 00:56:12,472
Still, people come here,
909
00:56:12,507 --> 00:56:15,026
also journalists with cameras
910
00:56:15,061 --> 00:56:17,201
and then they say,
"Ah, I'm standing here,"
911
00:56:17,235 --> 00:56:19,341
you can see the
historic photograph
912
00:56:19,376 --> 00:56:20,860
and it's exactly this place
913
00:56:20,894 --> 00:56:23,310
"where I'm standing,
Adolf Hitler stood."
914
00:56:23,345 --> 00:56:27,349
And this is the kind of
fascination about Hitler
915
00:56:27,384 --> 00:56:31,111
we regard carefully.
916
00:56:34,252 --> 00:56:37,394
That's the place where
the Berghof Adolf Hitler,
917
00:56:37,428 --> 00:56:39,879
the private house
of Adolf Hitler was.
918
00:56:39,913 --> 00:56:44,539
The ruins were... blew up in 1952
919
00:56:44,573 --> 00:56:46,920
because the people were afraid
920
00:56:46,955 --> 00:56:51,062
that this will be, yeah,
some kind of Nazi shrine.
921
00:56:51,097 --> 00:56:54,031
They planted those
trees to keep the people
922
00:56:54,065 --> 00:56:55,550
away from this area,
923
00:56:55,584 --> 00:56:58,207
but they came every year.
924
00:56:58,242 --> 00:56:59,692
Lots of people came here
925
00:56:59,726 --> 00:57:02,453
because they still
believe in this.
926
00:57:03,627 --> 00:57:07,803
Yeah, in Hitler, they still
believe in the Nazi ideology.
927
00:57:08,425 --> 00:57:10,530
And that's the reason
why the discussion,
928
00:57:10,565 --> 00:57:13,291
how to deal with the
history will never stop.
929
00:57:55,782 --> 00:57:57,957
"Worse had been expected."
930
00:57:57,991 --> 00:58:00,338
During 1933 and '34,
931
00:58:00,373 --> 00:58:03,445
the terror slowly
died down to give way
932
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,758
to the 'good Nazi years, '
933
00:58:05,792 --> 00:58:07,829
to almost normal conditions,
934
00:58:07,863 --> 00:58:10,452
only slightly disturbed by
the continued existence of
935
00:58:10,487 --> 00:58:13,317
"the now less crowded
concentration camps."
936
00:58:14,145 --> 00:58:16,941
Haffner is 26 in '33
937
00:58:16,976 --> 00:58:20,773
and he said the dominant
emotion wasn't horror.
938
00:58:20,807 --> 00:58:23,638
It was this utter unreality,
939
00:58:23,672 --> 00:58:25,985
as if everything was clockwork,
940
00:58:26,019 --> 00:58:30,023
that people moved
around like mannequins.
941
00:58:30,541 --> 00:58:35,615
Well, at the very beginning,
enthusiasm was still mixed.
942
00:58:35,650 --> 00:58:39,170
But as years went by,
943
00:58:39,205 --> 00:58:44,659
through the '30s, enthusiasm
grew for two obvious reasons.
944
00:58:44,693 --> 00:58:48,283
The economic reorganization
and reshaping
945
00:58:48,317 --> 00:58:50,388
of the German economy.
946
00:58:50,423 --> 00:58:53,530
And there were the
successes in foreign policy
947
00:58:53,564 --> 00:58:58,017
and those who were opposed
were either in camps
948
00:58:58,051 --> 00:59:00,882
like the communists and so on.
949
00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:03,022
The Jews, that came later,
950
00:59:03,056 --> 00:59:06,715
nobody really protested,
as far as I know,
951
00:59:07,751 --> 00:59:10,029
mainly in the
universities and so on.
952
00:59:10,063 --> 00:59:14,240
I mean, people took it
in stride, you know, saying,
953
00:59:14,274 --> 00:59:20,867
"Well, the reawakening
of the country"
954
00:59:20,902 --> 00:59:23,076
and so on is so important,
955
00:59:23,111 --> 00:59:25,907
"so these are little problems."
956
00:59:25,941 --> 00:59:27,218
And others would say,
957
00:59:27,253 --> 00:59:29,876
"Well, good that
Hitler is doing that.
958
00:59:29,911 --> 00:59:34,053
"I mean, after all, the Jews
are foreigners," and so on.
959
00:59:34,087 --> 00:59:37,850
I mean, there is a
segment of the population
960
00:59:37,884 --> 00:59:41,163
who certainly knew that this was
961
00:59:41,198 --> 00:59:45,616
a very problematic regime.
962
00:59:46,065 --> 00:59:49,689
But most Germans
were enthusiastic.
963
00:59:49,724 --> 00:59:54,245
And you should see the
enthusiasm of the elites.
964
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,594
Doctors, lawyers, engineers.
965
00:59:57,628 --> 00:59:59,906
The people who pioneered,
966
00:59:59,941 --> 01:00:02,944
the people who first engaged
967
01:00:02,978 --> 01:00:06,982
in the ways of killing
968
01:00:08,087 --> 01:00:09,295
were doctors.
969
01:00:09,329 --> 01:00:11,677
You see doctors
who just flipped,
970
01:00:12,298 --> 01:00:18,649
just flipped and began
to talk in medical terms
971
01:00:18,684 --> 01:00:23,102
of the need to starve patients
before they start gassing them.
972
01:00:23,136 --> 01:00:26,761
In certain places, they're
killing them by starving them.
973
01:00:26,795 --> 01:00:31,662
This was done in the
most advanced society
974
01:00:32,836 --> 01:00:39,152
with the active participation
of those elements of society
975
01:00:39,187 --> 01:00:44,261
that we generally see
as a counterweight
976
01:00:44,295 --> 01:00:48,092
to this kind of authoritarian,
977
01:00:48,127 --> 01:00:50,819
genocidal regime.
978
01:00:50,854 --> 01:00:52,959
How is that possible?
979
01:00:52,994 --> 01:00:56,825
But what is really
historically important
980
01:00:56,860 --> 01:01:02,831
is the readiness of an immense
number of people in Germany
981
01:01:02,866 --> 01:01:08,665
at the beginning to go after
him and then to take even steps
982
01:01:08,699 --> 01:01:11,184
beyond what the Nazis demanded.
983
01:01:11,219 --> 01:01:15,016
Sir Ian Kershaw in Britain
put it very clearly,
984
01:01:15,050 --> 01:01:17,674
"Working towards the Fuührer."
985
01:01:18,536 --> 01:01:19,986
He didn't have to say anything.
986
01:01:23,024 --> 01:01:26,199
"The Third Reich
was producing guns and butter"
987
01:01:26,234 --> 01:01:28,029
and a great many other things.
988
01:01:29,202 --> 01:01:30,652
'The man may have his faults,
989
01:01:30,687 --> 01:01:33,172
but he has given us
work and bread again, '
990
01:01:33,206 --> 01:01:35,692
was the million-fold view.
991
01:01:35,726 --> 01:01:38,039
In the prologue to his
biography of Hitler,
992
01:01:38,073 --> 01:01:42,699
Joachim Fest performs an
interesting speculative experiment.
993
01:01:42,733 --> 01:01:46,392
He says, 'If Hitler had
succumbed to an assassination
994
01:01:46,426 --> 01:01:50,223
or an accident at
the end of 1938,
995
01:01:50,258 --> 01:01:52,018
few would hesitate
to call him one of
996
01:01:52,053 --> 01:01:54,020
"the greatest of
German statesmen.'"
997
01:01:56,574 --> 01:01:58,197
Was he a great man?
998
01:01:58,231 --> 01:02:00,820
Well, that's a strange question.
999
01:02:00,855 --> 01:02:04,341
His appeal was to promise,
1000
01:02:04,375 --> 01:02:08,207
let's be very, very basic here,
1001
01:02:08,241 --> 01:02:11,486
work and a better life.
1002
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,350
And they got it.
1003
01:02:13,384 --> 01:02:15,835
They were looking for a savior.
1004
01:02:15,870 --> 01:02:17,423
So here he was.
1005
01:02:18,113 --> 01:02:20,184
It wasn't an ideology.
1006
01:02:20,219 --> 01:02:24,257
It was more like
characterology in that
1007
01:02:24,292 --> 01:02:27,882
the ideology consisted
of a rallying cry.
1008
01:02:27,916 --> 01:02:30,574
And this is quite close
to what Haffner wrote.
1009
01:02:30,608 --> 01:02:34,923
He said, "And it was
saying, with a bullhorn",
1010
01:02:34,958 --> 01:02:38,858
'Those of you who
are willing to rob,
1011
01:02:38,893 --> 01:02:44,450
cheat, beat and kill people
who have done you no harm,
1012
01:02:45,244 --> 01:02:47,729
"then gather around my flag.'"
1013
01:02:47,764 --> 01:02:50,249
Well, Hitler was a
racist and he believed that
1014
01:02:50,283 --> 01:02:53,217
human history is
defined by the struggle
1015
01:02:53,252 --> 01:02:56,393
between different races for
the survival of the fittest
1016
01:02:56,427 --> 01:02:57,946
and indeed for domination.
1017
01:02:57,981 --> 01:03:00,397
And that struggle
had to be perpetual.
1018
01:03:00,431 --> 01:03:04,953
You had to keep going or you
became soft and weak as a race.
1019
01:03:04,988 --> 01:03:08,577
Master race and what
are they in daily life?
1020
01:03:08,612 --> 01:03:10,303
A piece of little shit.
1021
01:03:10,338 --> 01:03:12,098
When you belong to
the master race,
1022
01:03:12,133 --> 01:03:15,274
you have to have
the proof someday.
1023
01:03:15,308 --> 01:03:16,551
If it's a secret at all,
1024
01:03:16,585 --> 01:03:18,311
that would be the secret
1025
01:03:18,346 --> 01:03:20,417
that he gives the
people the feeling
1026
01:03:20,451 --> 01:03:22,246
they will be allowed one day
1027
01:03:22,281 --> 01:03:25,594
to do the killings
they are full with
1028
01:03:25,629 --> 01:03:27,804
and they are fantasizing.
1029
01:03:27,838 --> 01:03:30,151
And that's what really happened.
1030
01:03:36,847 --> 01:03:39,332
"For three years, day after day,"
1031
01:03:39,367 --> 01:03:41,472
Jewish families
throughout Europe
1032
01:03:41,507 --> 01:03:44,648
were taken from their homes
or hiding places,
1033
01:03:44,682 --> 01:03:47,685
transported to the east
and driven naked
1034
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,481
into the death factories
where the chimneys
1035
01:03:50,516 --> 01:03:54,347
"of the cremating furnaces
smoked day and night."
1036
01:04:04,702 --> 01:04:07,844
They're coming.
1037
01:04:07,878 --> 01:04:10,501
They hear the whistle and they're
frightened and they run this way.
1038
01:04:11,192 --> 01:04:12,296
We'll go further.
1039
01:04:12,331 --> 01:04:13,366
We're gonna go left.
1040
01:04:15,506 --> 01:04:17,346
Here we've got the road
to the execution sites.
1041
01:04:17,370 --> 01:04:19,200
It's going to be a
very pleasant walk.
1042
01:04:22,065 --> 01:04:27,346
Treblinka. Between 1942 and '43,
1043
01:04:27,380 --> 01:04:30,418
the Nazis murdered over
900,000 people here.
1044
01:04:32,765 --> 01:04:35,561
It's also one of the
highlights of Irving's tour.
1045
01:04:53,579 --> 01:04:55,305
The stones are symbolic of...
1046
01:05:30,133 --> 01:05:33,067
These Jews have a particular
habit of inflating numbers.
1047
01:05:33,101 --> 01:05:34,620
They want big numbers.
1048
01:05:35,448 --> 01:05:37,968
We find out usually that
the numbers are smaller.
1049
01:05:41,420 --> 01:05:43,284
I love seeing things like this.
1050
01:05:44,561 --> 01:05:46,425
This is where history began.
1051
01:06:27,949 --> 01:06:28,949
That's true.
1052
01:06:34,611 --> 01:06:35,784
Hmm?
1053
01:06:43,309 --> 01:06:45,208
Got no idea. Got no idea.
1054
01:07:41,195 --> 01:07:44,715
Beate and Serge
Klarsfeld are Nazi hunters
1055
01:07:44,750 --> 01:07:47,580
responsible for bringing
many Nazis to justice,
1056
01:07:47,615 --> 01:07:50,928
including, most famously,
Klaus Barbie.
1057
01:08:04,149 --> 01:08:08,567
Paris is celebrating Bastille
Day and the World Cup final.
1058
01:08:08,601 --> 01:08:11,087
But Serge and Beate are worried.
1059
01:09:56,295 --> 01:09:57,986
A few months later,
1060
01:09:58,021 --> 01:09:59,643
Serge and Beate's concerns
1061
01:09:59,678 --> 01:10:02,232
about rising nationalism
feel urgent.
1062
01:10:17,351 --> 01:10:19,525
It's an important event,
1063
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:24,047
the restoration of independence
after the First World War.
1064
01:10:24,081 --> 01:10:28,707
It became a kind of an occasion
1065
01:10:28,741 --> 01:10:32,124
for nationalist fringe
1066
01:10:34,368 --> 01:10:39,890
movements to come up in
public space
1067
01:10:39,925 --> 01:10:42,548
and demonstrate.
1068
01:10:42,583 --> 01:10:46,863
And it became just a huge thing.
1069
01:10:46,897 --> 01:10:51,419
It's organized by these
very radical fascists,
1070
01:10:51,454 --> 01:10:53,594
some of them organizations,
1071
01:10:53,628 --> 01:10:57,908
but it brings in also a
lot of people who kind of
1072
01:10:57,943 --> 01:11:01,360
go there for a big
demonstration and...
1073
01:11:07,918 --> 01:11:10,231
There is, from the
interwar years,
1074
01:11:10,266 --> 01:11:15,961
a very well established
and articulated fascist,
1075
01:11:16,444 --> 01:11:20,759
if you will, trajectory
in Polish politics.
1076
01:11:21,311 --> 01:11:24,590
A party, which
carries the same name
1077
01:11:24,625 --> 01:11:27,421
and uses the same
paraphernalia, the same symbols.
1078
01:11:27,455 --> 01:11:30,941
Some of these flags,
if you look closely,
1079
01:11:30,976 --> 01:11:35,394
you will see that it carries
a symbol that in some way
1080
01:11:35,429 --> 01:11:39,433
is reminiscent of the
swastika, of the hakenkreuz.
1081
01:11:39,467 --> 01:11:44,645
Made of a bent arm with a sword.
1082
01:11:45,473 --> 01:11:50,789
Before the war, it was a
right radical splinter group
1083
01:11:50,823 --> 01:11:52,791
from the nationalist movement.
1084
01:11:52,825 --> 01:11:55,794
It had the same
name then as now,
1085
01:11:55,828 --> 01:12:00,005
Obóz Narodowo-Radykalny,
the National Radical Camp.
1086
01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:04,596
And they were just beating
Jews in the streets.
1087
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:08,600
And their ideology, heart
of their nationalistic,
1088
01:12:08,634 --> 01:12:12,328
if you will, message
to get rid of the Jews.
1089
01:12:13,398 --> 01:12:16,504
And this is a legal
organization in Poland today.
1090
01:12:17,505 --> 01:12:21,129
This regime kind of winks to
these groups and tells them,
1091
01:12:21,164 --> 01:12:24,616
"We're not going to touch you."
1092
01:12:24,650 --> 01:12:27,757
And they thrive.
1093
01:12:28,723 --> 01:12:33,038
- In a natural way, what they
would want to do is also,
1094
01:12:33,072 --> 01:12:38,802
of course, expunge these
complicated parts of the history.
1095
01:12:38,837 --> 01:12:43,531
They are not interested in
having it told as it was.
1096
01:12:46,223 --> 01:12:51,815
As a Pole, this is an
extraordinarily upsetting
1097
01:12:51,850 --> 01:12:55,543
and dramatic event,
1098
01:12:55,578 --> 01:12:59,720
given what Poland
has gone through.
1099
01:13:00,203 --> 01:13:01,653
Wartime history is on one hand
1100
01:13:01,687 --> 01:13:04,414
a history of
incredible sacrifice
1101
01:13:04,449 --> 01:13:07,900
and suffering on the part
of the Polish population.
1102
01:13:07,935 --> 01:13:11,179
And then slowly we discover
that it is fraught,
1103
01:13:11,214 --> 01:13:14,907
the history of the Second World
War, with this very dramatic story
1104
01:13:14,942 --> 01:13:20,706
of complicity in the
persecution of the Polish Jews
1105
01:13:20,741 --> 01:13:22,708
during the Second World War.
1106
01:13:22,743 --> 01:13:24,227
This is not a
Polish specificity.
1107
01:13:24,261 --> 01:13:27,230
This is a phenomenon of
all of occupied Europe.
1108
01:13:27,264 --> 01:13:31,372
It makes confronting the
history of the Second World War
1109
01:13:31,407 --> 01:13:32,994
very complicated.
1110
01:13:49,286 --> 01:13:51,116
Saul Friedlaänder
is in Berlin to address
1111
01:13:51,150 --> 01:13:54,602
the German Bundestag for
Holocaust Memorial Day.
1112
01:13:54,637 --> 01:13:57,743
Among the audience are far
right members of Parliament,
1113
01:13:57,778 --> 01:14:01,264
including Alexander Gauland,
who as you may remember,
1114
01:14:01,298 --> 01:14:03,887
likened the Nazi period
to a mere bird dropping
1115
01:14:03,922 --> 01:14:05,268
on German history.
1116
01:15:08,020 --> 01:15:12,024
Every historian has some
other historians he likes
1117
01:15:12,059 --> 01:15:15,165
and some other
historians he likes less.
1118
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:19,169
So I happen to like
Saul Friedlaänder's approach.
1119
01:15:19,204 --> 01:15:22,069
We went to the same school,
by the way, in Prague.
1120
01:15:25,659 --> 01:15:28,178
- Elementary school?
- Pardon?
1121
01:15:28,213 --> 01:15:30,353
- High school?
- No, elementary school.
1122
01:15:30,387 --> 01:15:32,355
He is six years
younger than I am.
1123
01:15:32,389 --> 01:15:35,565
So we didn't know each other,
you know, but, uh...
1124
01:15:36,014 --> 01:15:39,017
You know, they went to France,
huh?
1125
01:15:39,051 --> 01:15:41,364
They went to France, why?
1126
01:15:41,398 --> 01:15:45,851
Because they were aware
of the Hitler regime
1127
01:15:45,886 --> 01:15:49,027
and the occupation
of Czechoslovakia.
1128
01:15:49,061 --> 01:15:52,030
And so, we managed to
get out before that.
1129
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:58,036
My father decided to
leave Europe in 1934.
1130
01:15:58,070 --> 01:16:01,764
It took him four years to
collect the money to do that.
1131
01:16:03,559 --> 01:16:06,872
But the decision
was made way before.
1132
01:16:06,907 --> 01:16:08,909
One year after
Hitler came to power.
1133
01:16:08,943 --> 01:16:11,049
He... that's it.
1134
01:16:12,775 --> 01:16:16,192
Bauer's family
went to Palestine.
1135
01:16:16,226 --> 01:16:19,091
Friedlaänder's parents found
refuge for him in France
1136
01:16:19,126 --> 01:16:21,887
and then tried to
escape to Switzerland.
1137
01:16:24,269 --> 01:16:26,582
After the war,
Friedlaänder learned
1138
01:16:26,616 --> 01:16:29,792
that his mother and father
were killed in Auschwitz.
1139
01:16:35,660 --> 01:16:39,215
I've been asked many a time
whether writing the memoir
1140
01:16:39,249 --> 01:16:43,426
created a kind of catharsis, you
know, therapeutic, as you say.
1141
01:16:43,460 --> 01:16:48,086
No, it didn't create anything.
Um...
1142
01:16:48,811 --> 01:16:51,779
The memoir was what it was.
1143
01:16:51,814 --> 01:16:54,748
And then I decided to write
1144
01:16:54,782 --> 01:16:59,269
the history of the whole period.
1145
01:16:59,615 --> 01:17:02,100
I didn't know it
would take so long,
1146
01:17:03,342 --> 01:17:06,622
but it did take 16 years
or something.
1147
01:17:06,656 --> 01:17:11,557
But now I feel, you know,
in this old age
1148
01:17:11,592 --> 01:17:16,355
that I've done what
I wanted to do.
1149
01:17:17,149 --> 01:17:21,982
Look, one cannot compel
memory to move in a...
1150
01:17:23,121 --> 01:17:25,641
It moves in its own direction.
1151
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:30,680
You cannot do anything
about it, right?
1152
01:17:31,232 --> 01:17:32,648
Speaking of that...
1153
01:17:34,995 --> 01:17:38,792
There are ways of putting
an end to the spell, I think.
1154
01:17:38,826 --> 01:17:42,174
But what happened with
many films is that
1155
01:17:42,209 --> 01:17:48,491
they prefer the spell because
it's attracting the viewers.
1156
01:17:48,525 --> 01:17:53,323
But you should end in
Sobibór or in Belzec.
1157
01:17:53,358 --> 01:17:59,467
I mean, you should end on the,
in my opinion, I cannot...
1158
01:17:59,502 --> 01:18:01,262
You asked me,
"How should we end?"
1159
01:18:01,297 --> 01:18:03,506
So, I took the...
1160
01:18:03,540 --> 01:18:08,304
In a way, I took the...
1161
01:18:08,338 --> 01:18:11,169
I answer your question.
1162
01:18:11,203 --> 01:18:14,172
Maybe you should end
in a place like that.
1163
01:18:14,206 --> 01:18:17,693
That would put an end
to the fascination.
1164
01:21:20,116 --> 01:21:25,156
It suddenly makes sense why Professor
Friedlaänder implored us to come here.
1165
01:21:25,190 --> 01:21:28,884
This is what he calls
the unknowable spot.
1166
01:21:28,918 --> 01:21:34,027
Here there is nothing. Little was
photographed and nothing was filmed.
1167
01:21:34,061 --> 01:21:36,857
Everything was erased.
1168
01:21:36,892 --> 01:21:41,551
Himmler, speaking to the SS
in 1943 said of the killing,
1169
01:21:41,586 --> 01:21:45,072
"This is the page
never to be written."
1170
01:21:45,107 --> 01:21:49,249
Had the Nazis won the war and
had there been no survivors,
1171
01:21:49,283 --> 01:21:52,424
the extermination would
have remained secret.
1172
01:21:52,459 --> 01:21:54,426
The forest the only witness.
1173
01:21:56,773 --> 01:22:00,260
That is why Wojciech and
the historians keep digging.
1174
01:22:33,396 --> 01:22:35,019
Hi...
1175
01:22:50,620 --> 01:22:54,693
People believe in the
destruction of other people.
1176
01:22:55,487 --> 01:22:59,146
People actually believe
that this is the only way
1177
01:22:59,181 --> 01:23:02,494
to rescue their society,
humanity, whatever.
1178
01:23:02,529 --> 01:23:06,291
And one of the great problems
that people today have
1179
01:23:06,326 --> 01:23:11,503
who are educated in liberal
or semi-liberal societies,
1180
01:23:12,642 --> 01:23:13,781
is they don't understand
1181
01:23:13,816 --> 01:23:16,301
how people can
believe that stuff.
1182
01:23:16,336 --> 01:23:18,165
Contrary to others,
1183
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:20,512
I don't think that Nazism
1184
01:23:20,547 --> 01:23:24,516
or the ideas behind
Nazism are dead.
1185
01:23:43,190 --> 01:23:45,686
In the world of the internet where
people are spending more and more
1186
01:23:45,710 --> 01:23:49,196
of their lives online, the
currency is, of course, attention.
1187
01:23:49,231 --> 01:23:52,130
And we are all probably familiar
with the idea of click bait,
1188
01:23:52,165 --> 01:23:54,339
but in order to gain
attention online,
1189
01:23:54,374 --> 01:23:55,996
you have to be sensational.
1190
01:23:56,031 --> 01:23:57,549
You have to be irreverent.
1191
01:23:57,584 --> 01:23:59,137
You have to be controversial.
1192
01:23:59,172 --> 01:24:01,139
You have to get
eyeballs looking at you.
1193
01:24:01,174 --> 01:24:03,659
And, of course, Hitler
is a very easy way
1194
01:24:03,693 --> 01:24:06,041
to accomplish that precise goal.
1195
01:24:07,249 --> 01:24:08,802
What?
1196
01:24:08,836 --> 01:24:10,252
What's with the Christmas...
1197
01:24:11,908 --> 01:24:13,255
I like the editing.
1198
01:24:16,534 --> 01:24:18,674
Subscribe to Keemstar.
1199
01:24:25,060 --> 01:24:26,923
Normalizing Hitler
pays off for people.
1200
01:24:26,958 --> 01:24:29,512
But while they're doing that,
they're radicalizing people.
1201
01:24:29,547 --> 01:24:33,344
They're introducing them
to much more controversial
1202
01:24:33,378 --> 01:24:35,346
and extreme content.
1203
01:24:35,380 --> 01:24:38,418
I was invited to go
to Charlottesville.
1204
01:24:39,591 --> 01:24:42,905
I was told, and this
is what the event was.
1205
01:24:42,939 --> 01:24:45,701
It was called Unite the Right.
1206
01:24:45,735 --> 01:24:47,392
It's pretty self-explanatory.
1207
01:24:47,427 --> 01:24:50,223
You shall not replace us.
1208
01:24:50,257 --> 01:24:52,639
Hell, yeah. What's up fam?
1209
01:24:53,571 --> 01:24:56,608
Let's keep moving forward.
Okay, it's a zoo out here.
1210
01:24:56,643 --> 01:24:59,232
Out here with Brittany Venti.
1211
01:24:59,266 --> 01:25:00,578
What up, fam?
1212
01:25:00,612 --> 01:25:02,062
We're live too.
1213
01:25:02,097 --> 01:25:03,788
Shit is wild out here.
1214
01:25:04,823 --> 01:25:07,447
We got hundreds of people
out here with torches.
1215
01:25:07,481 --> 01:25:12,555
It was a full-on like, almost
like a mob, but not quite,
1216
01:25:12,590 --> 01:25:15,144
because a mob is like
angry and disorganized.
1217
01:25:15,179 --> 01:25:18,768
Everyone here was very
like calm and like focused.
1218
01:25:18,803 --> 01:25:21,633
Like calm at first,
and then focused.
1219
01:25:21,668 --> 01:25:24,740
Everyone has their tiki torches.
Everyone managed to bring one.
1220
01:25:24,774 --> 01:25:25,948
There was like 600 people.
1221
01:25:25,982 --> 01:25:27,743
I don't know, maybe
there was 1000.
1222
01:25:27,777 --> 01:25:30,746
It just seemed like a
sea of endless people.
1223
01:25:30,780 --> 01:25:31,919
I was breathless.
1224
01:25:31,954 --> 01:25:34,612
My breath was taken away.
1225
01:25:34,646 --> 01:25:36,303
Yeah, torchlight,
it's beautiful.
1226
01:25:36,338 --> 01:25:39,272
You know, the way, the light
on people's faces and so forth.
1227
01:25:39,306 --> 01:25:41,412
I mean, there's
something very romantic
1228
01:25:41,446 --> 01:25:42,654
and very dramatic about it.
1229
01:25:42,689 --> 01:25:44,898
I mean, tiki torches, basically.
1230
01:25:44,932 --> 01:25:47,418
But in the context,
it's horrifying.
1231
01:25:47,452 --> 01:25:48,772
So, you have
beautiful on one hand
1232
01:25:48,798 --> 01:25:50,110
and horrifying on the other.
1233
01:25:50,145 --> 01:25:51,663
And you have to know the history
1234
01:25:51,698 --> 01:25:53,803
to know why it
might be horrifying.
1235
01:25:53,838 --> 01:25:57,290
Oh, my God. History isn't
pretty all the time, guys.
1236
01:25:57,324 --> 01:26:00,293
People get fucking
slaughtered and killed.
1237
01:26:00,327 --> 01:26:06,091
We are in the process
of undergoing a phenomenon
1238
01:26:06,126 --> 01:26:08,680
that's comparable to
industrial revolutions,
1239
01:26:08,715 --> 01:26:11,683
like the invention of
steam engines suddenly
1240
01:26:11,718 --> 01:26:15,687
and this information
revolution that's taking place.
1241
01:26:15,722 --> 01:26:20,451
And there are no institutions
1242
01:26:20,485 --> 01:26:24,040
within this democratic, uh,
1243
01:26:24,075 --> 01:26:29,943
paradigm, if you will, to
contain somehow and manage
1244
01:26:29,977 --> 01:26:32,152
the fact that people
can communicate
1245
01:26:32,187 --> 01:26:35,673
with tens of millions of
people instantaneously
1246
01:26:35,707 --> 01:26:38,158
without any sort of filters.
1247
01:26:38,193 --> 01:26:39,815
We grew up with the Internet.
1248
01:26:39,849 --> 01:26:41,782
So we have no centralized
source of information
1249
01:26:41,817 --> 01:26:43,543
that controls what we think.
1250
01:26:43,577 --> 01:26:47,961
You have demagogues
now that can reach
1251
01:26:47,995 --> 01:26:50,239
on their own instantaneously,
1252
01:26:51,827 --> 01:26:53,691
untold numbers of people.
1253
01:26:53,725 --> 01:26:55,831
Because you see,
I know the truth
1254
01:26:55,865 --> 01:26:57,695
and people out
there in the world,
1255
01:26:57,729 --> 01:27:00,215
they really don't know the truth.
They don't know what it is.
1256
01:27:08,947 --> 01:27:10,846
The people, my people
are so smart
1257
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:12,720
and you know what else
they say about my people?
1258
01:27:12,744 --> 01:27:14,850
The polls. They say I have
the most loyal people.
1259
01:27:14,884 --> 01:27:16,541
Did you ever see that?
1260
01:27:16,576 --> 01:27:18,278
Where I could stand in
the middle of Fifth Avenue
1261
01:27:18,302 --> 01:27:20,545
and shoot somebody and I
wouldn't lose any voters, okay?
1262
01:27:20,580 --> 01:27:22,098
It's like incredible.
1263
01:27:23,445 --> 01:27:25,723
No, they say, "Trump,
we love you too, man."
1264
01:27:25,757 --> 01:27:27,690
Trump's voters are by far... "
1265
01:27:27,725 --> 01:27:29,830
I'm at 68, 69%.
1266
01:27:29,865 --> 01:27:32,902
I'm at 90% total.
1267
01:27:32,937 --> 01:27:35,871
Like, will you say absolutely,
1268
01:27:35,905 --> 01:27:38,253
I think it's 68 or 69%.
1269
01:27:38,287 --> 01:27:40,772
If there's no limit
to what you can say,
1270
01:27:40,807 --> 01:27:43,913
it's easy to believe there's
no limit to what you can do.
1271
01:27:43,948 --> 01:27:47,227
When somebody is the
President of the United States,
1272
01:27:47,262 --> 01:27:49,194
the authority is total.
1273
01:27:49,229 --> 01:27:50,851
It's all a lie.
1274
01:27:59,101 --> 01:28:02,035
We are back in the city
where this movie started.
1275
01:28:06,453 --> 01:28:09,456
It took a catastrophe
to see the obvious.
1276
01:28:12,597 --> 01:28:16,429
Never has age and human
experience felt so precious.
1277
01:28:18,534 --> 01:28:20,605
Saul Friedlaänder is 87.
1278
01:28:23,608 --> 01:28:25,748
Yehuda Bauer turned
94 a week ago.
1279
01:28:25,783 --> 01:28:28,095
I'm still working.
1280
01:28:29,821 --> 01:28:32,099
I'm not quite dead yet.
1281
01:28:32,134 --> 01:28:34,723
Soon, but not yet.
1282
01:28:34,757 --> 01:28:37,588
With that,
he gets the final word
1283
01:28:37,622 --> 01:28:39,452
on the meaning of Hitler.
1284
01:28:39,486 --> 01:28:43,248
Humans are animals
who kill other animals
1285
01:28:43,283 --> 01:28:45,837
of the same species.
1286
01:28:45,872 --> 01:28:48,323
They also develop the opposite,
1287
01:28:48,944 --> 01:28:50,635
because we are herd animals.
1288
01:28:50,670 --> 01:28:54,812
So we develop sympathy and love
and collaboration and so on
1289
01:28:54,846 --> 01:28:57,711
because a herd cannot
exist without that.
1290
01:28:58,540 --> 01:29:02,164
And so, there are two
conflicting elements
1291
01:29:02,198 --> 01:29:07,652
in all of human society
and all attempts to fight
1292
01:29:07,687 --> 01:29:11,553
the kind of Hitlerism that
we are discussing here
1293
01:29:12,657 --> 01:29:16,178
are really the
attempt to strengthen
1294
01:29:16,212 --> 01:29:20,907
one human reaction against
another human reaction.
1295
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,982
The problem that we have is not
that the Nazis were inhuman,
1296
01:29:27,016 --> 01:29:28,397
but that they were human.
1297
01:29:29,398 --> 01:29:31,504
That's the basic
problem that we have,
1298
01:29:31,538 --> 01:29:33,989
with ourselves,
not with the Nazis.
1299
01:29:34,023 --> 01:29:36,474
We also act out our ideas.
1300
01:29:36,509 --> 01:29:39,063
Fortunately,
they are not Nazi ideas,
1301
01:29:39,097 --> 01:29:43,343
but the Nazi ideas
were acted out
1302
01:29:43,378 --> 01:29:45,690
by people who were
absolutely normal.
102545
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