All language subtitles for The Keepers S01E01

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified) Download
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional) Download
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranรฎ)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,826 I've spent the last 30 years as a freelance writer... 2 00:00:36,912 --> 00:00:40,082 going wherever I could to do my job and make a living. 3 00:00:40,791 --> 00:00:45,341 It's been a life of wandering around... 4 00:00:46,463 --> 00:00:49,933 and finding a good story, getting an editor to agree to cover it... 5 00:00:51,051 --> 00:00:52,221 and assign me to it. 6 00:00:53,387 --> 00:00:57,557 As soon as, uh, it was done and over, "Thank you very much," 7 00:00:57,641 --> 00:00:59,851 I'd throw it in a box like these boxes you see... 8 00:00:59,935 --> 00:01:01,595 There are other rooms downstairs. 9 00:01:03,313 --> 00:01:05,113 ...and start cranking on the next one. 10 00:01:07,484 --> 00:01:09,324 Damn it, where the hell did I put it? 11 00:01:11,154 --> 00:01:15,494 Basically, this story, "Who Killed Sister Cathy?" 12 00:01:17,327 --> 00:01:21,037 It's a 6000-word monster review of the whole thing. 13 00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:27,420 I would not ever hear the name Sister Cathy Cesnik 14 00:01:27,879 --> 00:01:31,089 until 1994 when the first stories began to emerge. 15 00:01:33,927 --> 00:01:36,637 And that they included a woman who said she had witnessed 16 00:01:37,264 --> 00:01:39,144 the body of the dead nun. 17 00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:43,983 Of course, I was interested on a lot of levels. 18 00:01:47,274 --> 00:01:51,574 There's an on-the-record public story of what happened to Sister Cathy, 19 00:01:51,653 --> 00:01:54,823 and then there's the world beneath that was actually being lived. 20 00:01:54,906 --> 00:01:56,406 And to get at that mystery, 21 00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:00,950 I think, is our greatest journalistic responsibility. 22 00:02:04,708 --> 00:02:06,418 "Who Killed Sister Cathy? 23 00:02:06,793 --> 00:02:09,843 One of Maryland's Coldest Murder Cases Heats Up, 24 00:02:09,921 --> 00:02:11,301 by Tom Nugent." 25 00:02:14,676 --> 00:02:17,296 "She lies buried on the side of a steep hill 26 00:02:17,387 --> 00:02:18,967 in Sharpsburg, Pennsylvania, 27 00:02:19,473 --> 00:02:21,103 a threadbare suburban town 28 00:02:21,433 --> 00:02:23,983 directly across the Allegheny River from Pittsburgh. 29 00:02:27,689 --> 00:02:31,819 Her granite headstone offers the eye only four stone-carved words, 30 00:02:32,361 --> 00:02:39,331 Sister Catherine Cesnik, S.S.N.D., 1942-1969." 31 00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:51,507 And so, we find ourselves, what, 47 years after the murder? 32 00:02:52,422 --> 00:02:53,922 The case is unsolved... 33 00:02:55,884 --> 00:02:59,354 we all go on day after day, 34 00:02:59,679 --> 00:03:02,059 and the boil continues to swell, 35 00:03:02,516 --> 00:03:06,306 and the people who were injured most deeply continue to struggle and suffer. 36 00:03:06,686 --> 00:03:10,186 And the public continues to ask, "What happened?" 37 00:03:11,274 --> 00:03:15,534 But these clues to what it was linger on in a place like this attic. 38 00:03:16,822 --> 00:03:20,952 Those objects hold that energy and they twist you... 39 00:03:21,743 --> 00:03:23,623 and turn you in the wind, 40 00:03:24,454 --> 00:03:28,584 and you start asking, you know, "What was...? What is the past? 41 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:29,789 What was it?" 42 00:04:42,407 --> 00:04:45,367 Hey. Can we just sit down? Yeah, wherever you'd like. 43 00:04:45,452 --> 00:04:46,792 I'll be right over. Okay. 44 00:04:51,625 --> 00:04:53,955 Can I get you all started with something to drink? 45 00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:56,300 Um... 46 00:04:56,379 --> 00:05:00,179 What kind of chardonnay do you have? I have Yellow Tail. 47 00:05:00,258 --> 00:05:03,638 Oh, that's fine. That's what I drink at home... only. 48 00:05:08,809 --> 00:05:11,099 Hi. Um, I had a quick question. 49 00:05:11,186 --> 00:05:14,396 We've been using your excellent services for about two years. 50 00:05:14,481 --> 00:05:16,941 We're looking into an old unsolved murder case. 51 00:05:17,025 --> 00:05:21,355 My high-school teacher, Sister Catherine Cesnik, in '69. 52 00:05:24,741 --> 00:05:26,081 Hello. Hello. 53 00:05:26,159 --> 00:05:26,989 Come on over. 54 00:05:27,702 --> 00:05:30,372 Here, come on. I'm Gemma. So, they tell me-I'm Tom. 55 00:05:30,455 --> 00:05:31,705 You know where Keough is? 56 00:05:31,915 --> 00:05:33,535 No. Why? Next to Cardinal Gibbons. 57 00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:35,535 K-E-O-U-G-H. 58 00:05:35,627 --> 00:05:37,797 It's called Seton Keough now. Anyway... Yeah. 59 00:05:37,879 --> 00:05:42,549 in 1969, a nun at Archbishop Keough was murdered. 60 00:05:43,051 --> 00:05:44,511 In 1969? Mm-hm. 61 00:05:44,594 --> 00:05:47,064 And then her body was found about two months later. 62 00:05:47,138 --> 00:05:48,638 Wow. She had been murdered. 63 00:05:48,723 --> 00:05:50,933 This is my e-mail address. Uh-huh. 64 00:05:51,017 --> 00:05:52,307 'Cause you're not on Facebook, 65 00:05:52,394 --> 00:05:54,104 but you have e-mail? Yeah, I do. 66 00:05:54,187 --> 00:05:56,267 Okay. So, I'm not hitting on you, okay? 67 00:05:56,356 --> 00:05:58,276 No, that's okay. I seriously am not. 68 00:05:58,358 --> 00:06:00,398 Do you have much baggage? No. 69 00:06:00,902 --> 00:06:01,952 I'm one of the least... 70 00:06:04,406 --> 00:06:07,696 My personality is such that I'm really driven 71 00:06:07,784 --> 00:06:09,794 to find answers from other people. 72 00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:13,918 I will go out and talk to people, knock on doors, 73 00:06:13,999 --> 00:06:18,419 calling, questioning and asking them if they can help. 74 00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:21,264 I'd asked once in the past. 75 00:06:21,339 --> 00:06:23,879 Sometimes I find if I ask twice, they find them. 76 00:06:23,967 --> 00:06:25,982 Sometimes we have to dig a little deeper. 77 00:06:25,994 --> 00:06:27,927 But this-This is an old open warrant. 78 00:06:28,013 --> 00:06:29,143 Okay, let's take a look. 79 00:06:29,556 --> 00:06:31,726 Now, we looked at them maybe a year ago, 80 00:06:31,808 --> 00:06:35,018 and they said that there was a box of evidence that was missing 81 00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:37,693 and there were supposed to be three file folders. 82 00:06:38,189 --> 00:06:41,859 So, we're sort of hoping maybe they might have found their way back. 83 00:06:42,402 --> 00:06:44,152 If it's not there, we'll put a request in 84 00:06:44,237 --> 00:06:46,907 for them to get that refiled for you. I can come back. Thank you. 85 00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:49,080 Great. We're gonna keep our fingers crossed. 86 00:06:50,201 --> 00:06:53,201 Gemma Hoskins... bulldog. 87 00:06:54,205 --> 00:06:55,325 She's the bulldog. 88 00:06:56,082 --> 00:06:58,922 Abbie Schaub is the intellectual. 89 00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:01,209 They're feisty, tough women. 90 00:07:01,796 --> 00:07:02,956 I've asked both of them: 91 00:07:03,048 --> 00:07:05,838 "Don't you guys wanna become investigative journalists? 92 00:07:06,217 --> 00:07:10,257 Let's have some real fun." And they... They tell me, "We'll do it our way." 93 00:07:17,896 --> 00:07:21,776 The first day she walked in and said, "We're gonna read The Scarlet Letter," 94 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:22,858 I couldn't believe it. 95 00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:27,203 I was 13 and this really cool nun was gonna read The Scarlet Letter with us? 96 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:32,078 I have never ever had a teacher like that before. 97 00:07:32,744 --> 00:07:36,964 Sister Cathy could have been looked at as, like, a big sister. 98 00:07:37,415 --> 00:07:41,535 She exemplified this spirit of compassion and kindness. 99 00:07:41,628 --> 00:07:43,668 You felt like you were an individual with her 100 00:07:43,755 --> 00:07:47,335 and she was, like, encouraging you to bloom as a person. 101 00:07:49,469 --> 00:07:52,389 When we started doing Romeo and Juliet, 102 00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:53,772 I thought, "Oh, this..." 103 00:07:53,848 --> 00:07:55,518 You know, "I'm barely gonna survive 104 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,520 sitting through hours of Romeo and Juliet." 105 00:07:58,144 --> 00:07:59,736 But it got to the point where I began 106 00:07:59,748 --> 00:08:01,564 looking forward to going to English class. 107 00:08:01,648 --> 00:08:03,398 Who would've thought such a thing? 108 00:08:04,401 --> 00:08:07,111 I guess because she was so close in age to us, 109 00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:10,494 everything she said was romantic. 110 00:08:10,573 --> 00:08:14,493 You know, English literature, how you can express yourself through poems. 111 00:08:14,577 --> 00:08:17,747 When you're an adolescent and you're a girl, 112 00:08:17,831 --> 00:08:19,331 that resonates with you. 113 00:08:20,041 --> 00:08:23,501 And she was able to touch a lot of people in a short amount of time. 114 00:08:26,131 --> 00:08:27,971 She was murdered our senior year. 115 00:08:28,466 --> 00:08:32,756 And it's always haunted many people in the community. We're not the only ones. 116 00:08:33,304 --> 00:08:36,144 People pop up from 45, 50 years ago 117 00:08:36,224 --> 00:08:39,234 who say, "I have a story I'd like to tell you." 118 00:08:39,310 --> 00:08:41,730 So, it's been an ongoing urban legend almost. 119 00:08:43,106 --> 00:08:44,976 Abbie and I found each other 120 00:08:45,066 --> 00:08:48,606 because we had not been in contact with each other since we graduated. 121 00:08:49,029 --> 00:08:51,449 Gemma's been the Nancy Drew, I think. 122 00:08:51,531 --> 00:08:55,121 She's good at getting people to talk to her, calling them up and talk to her. 123 00:08:55,201 --> 00:08:59,711 Abbie does amazing research, like no one I've ever met. 124 00:08:59,789 --> 00:09:02,499 I like to get on the phone, talk to people, draw pictures... 125 00:09:02,584 --> 00:09:04,714 And I hate to talk to people, so, that works. 126 00:09:04,794 --> 00:09:06,384 ...of what-Of what's going on. 127 00:09:06,921 --> 00:09:10,631 Our mission, we were driven to find out who hurt Sister Cathy. 128 00:09:11,217 --> 00:09:13,297 We have people telling us to be careful. 129 00:09:14,637 --> 00:09:19,057 Our concern was that she fell into something evil, 130 00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:21,232 something bad, and got caught up with it. 131 00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:25,818 We're told that the story is not the nun's killing. 132 00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:28,149 The story is the cover-up of a nun's story. 133 00:09:28,693 --> 00:09:30,644 It worries me whether or not we're looking 134 00:09:30,656 --> 00:09:32,573 at something bigger than what we know of. 135 00:09:34,074 --> 00:09:37,204 It's a 45-year-old cold case, 136 00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:39,695 and I think we probably have more information 137 00:09:39,788 --> 00:09:43,998 than any police officer or detective has had on this case ever. 138 00:09:45,794 --> 00:09:46,844 We're in our 60s. 139 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,420 Time is getting short for us to be able to figure out what happened to Cathy. 140 00:09:52,884 --> 00:09:55,354 I don't think there's any shame in not succeeding, 141 00:09:55,428 --> 00:09:57,638 but it would be wrong not to try. 142 00:10:17,742 --> 00:10:23,122 Sister Cathy was my 11th-grade English teacher in 1969. 143 00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:26,915 November 7th... 144 00:10:27,794 --> 00:10:28,924 it was a Friday. 145 00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:31,336 We had discussions after class. 146 00:10:31,422 --> 00:10:36,262 Just talking about what was going on in my life and that kind of thing. 147 00:10:37,512 --> 00:10:41,222 She was standing behind her desk and I was standing next to her desk 148 00:10:41,307 --> 00:10:43,017 and... just talking. 149 00:10:43,101 --> 00:10:46,351 Um, I don't even remember what we were talking about 150 00:10:46,437 --> 00:10:50,437 until she said that she had to go shopping that night for a gift... 151 00:10:51,234 --> 00:10:53,744 for someone in her family. 152 00:10:54,779 --> 00:10:59,619 She seemed really happy about it, about this person, whoever it was. 153 00:11:00,118 --> 00:11:02,288 She was excited that they were getting married. 154 00:11:03,413 --> 00:11:05,673 And then I went on to my next class. 155 00:11:15,550 --> 00:11:19,390 Cathy left high school after her normal teaching day. 156 00:11:22,056 --> 00:11:24,386 She was back at her apartment at some point. 157 00:11:24,893 --> 00:11:28,103 Uh, might have been-I would assume around three o'clock or so. 158 00:11:30,982 --> 00:11:34,742 Sister Catherine and Sister Russell... 159 00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:36,610 they were roommates. 160 00:11:37,488 --> 00:11:40,158 They taught together at Keough and they... 161 00:11:40,783 --> 00:11:45,583 were the two nuns who left the order, became public-school teachers. 162 00:11:46,122 --> 00:11:50,342 They rented an apartment over on North Bend Road 163 00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:51,998 in the southwest part of the city. 164 00:11:54,339 --> 00:11:55,839 I interviewed Sister Russell... 165 00:11:57,091 --> 00:12:00,641 at her home in Carroll County. 166 00:12:01,179 --> 00:12:05,179 A very nice lady, but she was also very reluctant to talk. 167 00:12:06,225 --> 00:12:08,265 Sister Russell was, um... 168 00:12:08,895 --> 00:12:11,015 She was my algebra teacher. 169 00:12:12,273 --> 00:12:14,863 She was also the cheerleading coach. 170 00:12:14,943 --> 00:12:17,203 She was Cathy's friend. Everybody knew that. 171 00:12:17,946 --> 00:12:19,606 They laughed together a lot. 172 00:12:19,697 --> 00:12:21,237 You'd see them in the hallway 173 00:12:21,324 --> 00:12:23,284 and you see them at different places together. 174 00:12:24,285 --> 00:12:29,575 But Russell was more of the left brain and Cathy was the right. 175 00:12:40,551 --> 00:12:44,561 As far as we know, she left the apartment parking lot 176 00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:45,889 somewhere around 7. 177 00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:51,806 Sister Russell, her roommate, said that... this was a routine they did. 178 00:12:51,896 --> 00:12:54,936 She was gonna go shopping to pick up some bakery buns. 179 00:12:55,024 --> 00:12:57,654 She was gonna buy an engagement gift for her sister. 180 00:13:00,238 --> 00:13:05,408 She went from her apartment to the Edmondson Village Shopping Center. 181 00:13:15,128 --> 00:13:17,048 It was very safe at the time. 182 00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:20,760 It was a local attraction considered upscale. 183 00:13:24,387 --> 00:13:27,137 Sister Cathy went to the local bank, 184 00:13:27,223 --> 00:13:29,563 cashed her paycheck, bought some dinner rolls. 185 00:13:30,518 --> 00:13:32,438 Now, accounts vary here. 186 00:13:32,895 --> 00:13:35,975 Several witnesses have told the newspaper and the police 187 00:13:36,524 --> 00:13:40,614 there's no doubt that the nun returns to her parking space 188 00:13:41,154 --> 00:13:45,624 but no one has proved that she ever came back to her apartment. 189 00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:48,079 Instead, she vanished. 190 00:13:50,621 --> 00:13:56,001 We don't know exactly where Sister Catherine... was taken. 191 00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:02,052 You know, was she on her way back from Edmondson Village? 192 00:14:02,133 --> 00:14:05,223 Did she get back to the block where she lived 193 00:14:05,303 --> 00:14:07,513 and then this person grabbed her? 194 00:14:11,851 --> 00:14:15,401 She might have been grabbed right outside her own door for all we know. 195 00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:23,324 All we know is that she never came home from that trip. 196 00:14:26,199 --> 00:14:28,079 We have a witness. 197 00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:31,289 An airline stewardess had gone grocery shopping 198 00:14:31,371 --> 00:14:35,171 and was going up and down from her car carrying bags of groceries in and out. 199 00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:37,843 But on the third trip, about 8:30, 200 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:41,839 she remembers seeing Cathy sitting in her car in the parking lot 201 00:14:41,923 --> 00:14:43,883 as if she was waiting for something. 202 00:14:46,427 --> 00:14:48,137 One of the Keough girls, 203 00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:51,851 who was... embarrassed, I think, initially to admit it, 204 00:14:52,683 --> 00:14:56,313 was in the neighborhood of Sister Cathy's apartment that night. 205 00:14:56,979 --> 00:15:01,029 Um, she had a little bit of a crush on one of the male teachers, I think, 206 00:15:01,109 --> 00:15:03,529 and was sort of hanging around by his apartment, 207 00:15:03,611 --> 00:15:07,451 which was apparently a block or two away from Cathy's apartment. 208 00:15:13,996 --> 00:15:16,746 It was the beginning of November, 209 00:15:16,833 --> 00:15:18,543 and around that time... 210 00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:21,626 our, um, new phonebooks came out for the year. 211 00:15:21,712 --> 00:15:25,932 The-It was called back then the C&P Telephone Company. 212 00:15:27,844 --> 00:15:30,474 I was a sophomore in high school. 213 00:15:30,555 --> 00:15:33,385 It was a Friday night, and my girlfriend and I said: 214 00:15:33,474 --> 00:15:36,734 "Let's look in the phonebook, find out where all our teachers live." 215 00:15:39,105 --> 00:15:41,645 In that house lived Mr. Noone, 216 00:15:42,233 --> 00:15:44,743 and the light was on, on the second floor. 217 00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:50,736 And we said, "It's Mr. Noone! He's got his undershirt on." 218 00:15:51,242 --> 00:15:54,082 I believe he was in the room there above the door. 219 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,630 He was standing in front of a mirror, combing his hair. 220 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,260 The light went off. 221 00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:07,258 We ducked down and, you know, trying not to giggle. 222 00:16:08,551 --> 00:16:11,431 Before we knew it, we heard this yelling. 223 00:16:11,929 --> 00:16:15,139 And I would say it came from that direction. 224 00:16:17,518 --> 00:16:20,478 That's where Sister Cathy and Sister Russell lived. 225 00:16:23,316 --> 00:16:24,396 It was a man's voice. 226 00:16:25,193 --> 00:16:27,703 Loud, booming... 227 00:16:28,863 --> 00:16:32,283 garbled with emotion, anger. 228 00:16:33,951 --> 00:16:38,411 We really thought it was some kind of violence that was going on up there. 229 00:16:41,459 --> 00:16:43,589 And that's when we took off and went home. 230 00:17:00,895 --> 00:17:04,355 Sister Russell, her roommate and friend, became concerned 231 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,530 when Cathy never came back from the shopping trip. 232 00:17:09,403 --> 00:17:11,863 Around midnight, she became concerned enough 233 00:17:11,948 --> 00:17:15,828 that she... called... Gerry Koob. 234 00:17:18,204 --> 00:17:20,924 Father Koob and Cathy had met. 235 00:17:21,415 --> 00:17:22,875 Cathy was teaching English, 236 00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:26,169 and Father Gerry Koob was teaching religion. 237 00:17:27,255 --> 00:17:29,625 They apparently developed a friendship. 238 00:17:31,801 --> 00:17:34,051 That troubles us a bit, looking back. 239 00:17:35,513 --> 00:17:38,723 Why didn't Sister Russell call the police? 240 00:17:43,688 --> 00:17:46,068 Now, the Carriage House Apartments... 241 00:17:46,148 --> 00:17:48,608 Right here. ...are here, yeah. Okay. 242 00:17:50,027 --> 00:17:51,487 Okay. Keep going. All right. 243 00:17:55,825 --> 00:17:56,655 Down here? 244 00:17:59,495 --> 00:18:00,495 Hmm. 245 00:18:01,289 --> 00:18:02,829 Go up a little further. Yeah. 246 00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:10,462 Before five o'clock that afternoon, it was a typical day at the retreat house, 247 00:18:10,548 --> 00:18:12,838 and I didn't have a retreat going on, 248 00:18:13,634 --> 00:18:16,474 so, I have little or no recollection of anything. 249 00:18:16,554 --> 00:18:20,564 But I knew that then-Brother Peter... 250 00:18:20,641 --> 00:18:23,481 Pete McKeon and I had decided 251 00:18:23,561 --> 00:18:26,771 there's a movie playing in Baltimore tonight that we both wanna see. 252 00:18:30,151 --> 00:18:31,441 It was Easy Rider. 253 00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:39,237 I would venture it must have been about 10:30 or so by the time we got back. 254 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:42,460 And we were sitting and talking about it 255 00:18:42,913 --> 00:18:46,753 and the phone rings, and it's Sister Russell Phillips. 256 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,170 "Have you seen Cathy?" 257 00:18:53,174 --> 00:18:57,224 She tells us that Cathy went out around 8:00 or 8:30. 258 00:18:58,054 --> 00:19:02,684 She was gonna get an engagement present for her sister and she's not home yet. 259 00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:09,065 So, we got in the car and drove up to Catonsville immediately. 260 00:19:12,652 --> 00:19:14,822 This is... This is the apartment we were in. 261 00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:16,568 And, uh... 262 00:19:18,032 --> 00:19:19,532 we were on that ground floor. 263 00:19:21,952 --> 00:19:27,082 So, our approach was up those steps and right into this apartment. 264 00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:35,046 We spent maybe 45 minutes to an hour listening to Russell. 265 00:19:35,883 --> 00:19:40,893 And... since it was now three hours after what she expected, 266 00:19:40,971 --> 00:19:43,471 I said, "I think it's time for us to call the police." 267 00:19:49,397 --> 00:19:51,857 So, a single policeman responded to our call. 268 00:19:51,941 --> 00:19:53,361 He came to this apartment. 269 00:19:53,859 --> 00:19:56,149 We were describing her as a missing person. 270 00:19:57,905 --> 00:20:00,865 He wrote everything down, he left. 271 00:20:02,034 --> 00:20:04,374 The three of us gathered around a little table. 272 00:20:05,579 --> 00:20:06,499 And I said Mass. 273 00:20:09,041 --> 00:20:13,301 We did a little bread and wine, and I did the Mass, a consecration. 274 00:20:17,758 --> 00:20:21,388 And we saved some of the communion bread for Cathy. 275 00:20:22,888 --> 00:20:26,518 We were still hoping against hope that she would show up. 276 00:20:34,608 --> 00:20:37,108 After another hour or two, Peter and I left 277 00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:39,993 and went down those steps to take a walk. 278 00:20:47,121 --> 00:20:48,711 We're coming up this way... 279 00:20:50,249 --> 00:20:54,709 and when we get about here... we spot the car. 280 00:20:56,881 --> 00:20:59,841 This door was unlocked. 281 00:20:59,925 --> 00:21:00,835 Right. 282 00:21:00,926 --> 00:21:02,086 We went in. Uh-huh. 283 00:21:02,178 --> 00:21:05,718 And the famous twig was sticking... Hanging down from that. 284 00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:10,769 There are leaves, twigs, muddy tires. 285 00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:15,780 This car had been into a swampy area, unquestionable. 286 00:21:16,484 --> 00:21:20,244 The car had been into swampy, muddy ground. 287 00:21:24,492 --> 00:21:27,332 And why is that car found 288 00:21:27,787 --> 00:21:30,407 with its rear end sticking out in the street 289 00:21:30,498 --> 00:21:34,498 right adjacent to the Carriage House Apartments, where the nun lived? 290 00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:41,177 Whoever put that car there wanted it to be found. 291 00:21:42,593 --> 00:21:45,553 My elevator inside me is dropping down very rapidly, 292 00:21:46,055 --> 00:21:50,135 because up here, I know Cathy did not bring this car back here. 293 00:21:51,477 --> 00:21:55,307 Somebody else brought the car back and didn't bring her with them. 294 00:21:55,397 --> 00:21:56,317 Then where is she? 295 00:22:07,368 --> 00:22:09,538 Around this same period of time, 296 00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:12,117 Joyce Malecki is a young woman 297 00:22:12,206 --> 00:22:16,836 who was abducted three or four days after Sister Cathy was abducted. 298 00:22:19,964 --> 00:22:23,134 Back then, abductions and murders of random young women 299 00:22:23,217 --> 00:22:24,887 were almost unheard of. 300 00:22:26,512 --> 00:22:32,022 For two young women to be abducted within four days of each other, 301 00:22:32,101 --> 00:22:33,101 what are the odds? 302 00:22:35,145 --> 00:22:40,315 Same scenario, car was found, side of the road, door open, she was gone. 303 00:22:41,819 --> 00:22:43,859 Her family are charming people. 304 00:22:43,946 --> 00:22:46,816 She has several siblings still alive. We've met with them. 305 00:22:46,907 --> 00:22:51,577 So, we said, "As long as we're spending this time looking around, 306 00:22:51,662 --> 00:22:54,712 let's see if we can find any information to help the Maleckis." 307 00:22:58,669 --> 00:23:00,589 This is where it had first came out 308 00:23:00,671 --> 00:23:03,341 where she was missing and where she was missing from. 309 00:23:04,425 --> 00:23:05,925 "Joyce Helen Malecki, 310 00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:10,510 a pretty young 20-year-old Lansdowne girl who lived less than two miles 311 00:23:10,598 --> 00:23:13,178 from the apartment where Sister Catherine Cesnik 312 00:23:13,267 --> 00:23:16,057 was reported missing late yesterday. 313 00:23:16,145 --> 00:23:21,315 Similarities in the two cases. Both girls were young and attractive. 314 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,740 Packages were found in both cars. 315 00:23:24,361 --> 00:23:29,241 Both cars were found abandoned with no apparent signs of struggle, 316 00:23:29,325 --> 00:23:33,695 keys were still in the ignition, and both girls had went shopping." 317 00:23:37,708 --> 00:23:42,548 You know, where we grew up, we had no keys to the house. 318 00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:46,590 The house was not locked, so, we could come and go as we please. 319 00:23:47,051 --> 00:23:49,681 There was no crime rate. There was no trouble. 320 00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:53,182 Never had any problems. Everybody was there to help you. 321 00:23:53,932 --> 00:23:55,982 It was a nice neighborhood to grow up in. 322 00:23:57,519 --> 00:24:00,059 In November 1969, 323 00:24:00,648 --> 00:24:04,358 I was working at Gino's, which was a fast-food restaurant, 324 00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:06,993 probably within five miles from the house. 325 00:24:08,113 --> 00:24:12,833 I was working in the evening, and Joyce came up to Gino's 326 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:14,660 and asked me to switch vehicles. 327 00:24:16,038 --> 00:24:19,628 She left her car, and she took my parents' car. 328 00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:23,209 I was probably the last one to see her. 329 00:24:30,344 --> 00:24:34,564 This is the exact parking lot where her car was found. 330 00:24:35,516 --> 00:24:40,936 Once we converged here and met here, we contacted the state police. 331 00:24:41,021 --> 00:24:45,441 They responded rather rapidly, secured the area 332 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:49,450 and told us, you know, "Hey, don't go in, don't touch nothing." 333 00:24:50,322 --> 00:24:54,872 The car is parked just the same as we're parked right now, 334 00:24:55,452 --> 00:24:58,332 and it was unlocked, and the keys were in the ignition. 335 00:25:00,582 --> 00:25:03,752 The day that my sister went out shopping that evening, 336 00:25:03,836 --> 00:25:08,916 it was all over the local news about Sister Cathy's disappearance. 337 00:25:10,175 --> 00:25:15,505 My mother told her, "Joyce, be careful out there. 338 00:25:15,597 --> 00:25:18,597 The nun is missing. Make sure you come home safe." 339 00:25:20,185 --> 00:25:21,095 But she didn't. 340 00:25:42,666 --> 00:25:45,166 It's always like an interview getting into your e-mail. 341 00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:50,965 I sit right where I'm sitting now in the evening, 342 00:25:51,425 --> 00:25:53,545 whether I'm eating or watching TV, 343 00:25:53,635 --> 00:25:56,715 and I read everybody's posts. 344 00:25:57,765 --> 00:25:59,095 Abbie's the researcher. 345 00:26:00,601 --> 00:26:03,811 She and I are on here every night in the middle of the night. 346 00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:06,767 This Facebook page, 347 00:26:06,857 --> 00:26:10,397 Justice for Catherine Cesnik and Joyce Malecki... 348 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:16,660 Abbie Fitzgerald and I are the administrators on this page. 349 00:26:17,534 --> 00:26:21,794 And the purpose of the page is to collect information 350 00:26:21,872 --> 00:26:26,672 from anybody who might have information about what happened to Sister Cathy. 351 00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:33,625 We have journalists, law enforcement, retired police officers. 352 00:26:34,259 --> 00:26:36,969 People know that they can private message us. 353 00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:41,063 If I ask a question tonight on this page, 354 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,810 all we have to do is post it and we get so many responses. 355 00:26:49,274 --> 00:26:53,954 This is my very inelegant file system, very low-tech. 356 00:26:55,322 --> 00:26:59,792 But it became clear fairly early that so many names were coming up 357 00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:05,039 that I needed some way to try to store the information, find it again. 358 00:27:07,751 --> 00:27:08,791 Let's see. 359 00:27:10,295 --> 00:27:12,915 I have the letters to the City of Baltimore Police, 360 00:27:13,006 --> 00:27:18,176 to the... CIA, the FBI, Freedom of Information Act request. 361 00:27:19,179 --> 00:27:20,059 Okay. 362 00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:22,716 This Facebook post is from May. 363 00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:27,480 "We went on a field trip trying to better understand the events 364 00:27:27,563 --> 00:27:30,483 the evening Sister Cathy was abducted. 365 00:27:30,566 --> 00:27:35,146 Picture is attached. Tan brick building was Cathy's apartment. 366 00:27:35,237 --> 00:27:39,577 Parking lot next to that is where her car would have been parked. 367 00:27:39,658 --> 00:27:44,248 A silver SUV is parked where her car was found, 368 00:27:44,329 --> 00:27:48,419 parked illegally with back of car protruding into the street." 369 00:27:49,626 --> 00:27:53,796 Facebook has been such an integral part of our investigation. 370 00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:55,801 There's power in numbers, 371 00:27:55,883 --> 00:28:00,143 and we're all feeling driven to find out who hurt Sister Cathy. 372 00:28:00,929 --> 00:28:04,639 Sister Cathy and Joyce went missing in the same area 373 00:28:04,725 --> 00:28:07,435 of southwest Baltimore in the same week. 374 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,939 So, we've been working with the Malecki family 375 00:28:10,022 --> 00:28:12,442 to try and get information about Joyce 376 00:28:12,524 --> 00:28:16,364 and to try and make connections between the two murders 377 00:28:16,445 --> 00:28:19,275 and the people that we think were responsible. 378 00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:24,700 Okay, Buddy, let's go. 379 00:28:36,632 --> 00:28:39,012 After we found Joyce's car, 380 00:28:39,092 --> 00:28:42,762 it was the next day that two hunters found her body. 381 00:28:45,766 --> 00:28:48,266 Well, you can see how secluded this is. 382 00:28:49,102 --> 00:28:51,272 And like I said, at the time, it was a dirt road, 383 00:28:51,355 --> 00:28:53,225 so, somebody had to know 384 00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:55,902 where they were going and what they were doing. 385 00:28:56,902 --> 00:29:01,242 And in my opinion, she was placed back here not to be found any time soon. 386 00:29:08,872 --> 00:29:11,422 And somewhere... Somewhere back in here, 387 00:29:12,167 --> 00:29:14,747 you go back about 25, 30 yards, 388 00:29:14,836 --> 00:29:19,376 and there's the Little Patuxent River, and that's where her body was found. 389 00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:29,137 And they asked if someone would identify. 390 00:29:30,143 --> 00:29:32,903 And my mother and father, they were too upset. 391 00:29:33,897 --> 00:29:35,607 So, I said, "Well, I'll go back." 392 00:29:37,276 --> 00:29:38,896 So that they would be spared that. 393 00:30:03,635 --> 00:30:04,635 The hunters found her. 394 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,310 She was facedown in the stream with her hands tied behind her back. 395 00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:12,475 And her throat was cut. 396 00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:19,320 They had her body on this gurney and a sheet over her. 397 00:30:20,277 --> 00:30:23,777 And just the one thing I'll never ever forget, 398 00:30:23,864 --> 00:30:25,244 when they pulled the sheet back, 399 00:30:27,159 --> 00:30:32,959 her face was all dirty and muddy, and... her hair had sticks in it. 400 00:30:35,459 --> 00:30:37,539 But I could still tell it was my sister. 401 00:30:39,379 --> 00:30:43,219 So, that's when I went back and I... told my mother and father 402 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:45,510 and Donald and Darryl that it was her. 403 00:30:49,473 --> 00:30:50,933 But when it comes to my sister, 404 00:30:51,016 --> 00:30:52,788 the only thing I can see is what I saw 405 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,766 when I-When they pulled that sheet back. 406 00:30:55,312 --> 00:30:57,154 That's terrible. That's the only memory 407 00:30:57,166 --> 00:30:59,112 that I have, and it never ever goes away. 408 00:31:00,192 --> 00:31:02,032 It's just like it was yesterday. 409 00:31:03,195 --> 00:31:04,195 So, that's... 410 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:11,447 That's what you have to go through, I guess, in a situation like that, but... 411 00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:16,120 That's why I would like to see somebody pay for it. 412 00:31:17,751 --> 00:31:18,791 Somebody did it. 413 00:31:26,093 --> 00:31:28,053 "City police search for missing nun, 414 00:31:28,136 --> 00:31:32,306 26 officers combing area with K-9 corps dogs." 415 00:31:32,849 --> 00:31:36,229 It was a huge public event in 1969. 416 00:31:36,561 --> 00:31:39,521 We've got a terrible-Nun disappeared. It's all over the front page. 417 00:31:40,232 --> 00:31:42,942 And five days later, "Oh, my God, what's happened to Malecki? 418 00:31:43,026 --> 00:31:44,146 Are they connected?" 419 00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:47,526 And the FBI commissioner, the head guy in Baltimore, anyway, 420 00:31:47,614 --> 00:31:52,124 tells the press, "Rest assured, your Federal FBI is hard at work. 421 00:31:52,202 --> 00:31:58,172 We will find out if there's a connection between Malecki and Sister Cathy." 422 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,550 You start asking, "Who ran that investigation?" 423 00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:06,681 And that's Captain John Barnold. 424 00:32:07,384 --> 00:32:10,434 He's the chief of Homicide, Baltimore City cops. 425 00:32:14,266 --> 00:32:18,226 "We're coming in here a minute, hon, and take a few pictures." 426 00:32:22,023 --> 00:32:23,483 That was me in my good days. 427 00:32:24,276 --> 00:32:28,356 It was just a photo taken with my new captain's hat and badge and all. 428 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:33,620 I was 38. I was the youngest captain on the force at the time. 429 00:32:34,077 --> 00:32:35,907 And at that time, they only had... 430 00:32:36,496 --> 00:32:40,706 I think it was 18 captains in the whole force, and I was one of 18. 431 00:32:42,377 --> 00:32:44,337 I was fortunate. I had a good career. 432 00:32:45,338 --> 00:32:46,838 People are missing every day. 433 00:32:46,923 --> 00:32:50,643 They wander off, you know, and... And, usually, nothing comes of it. 434 00:32:50,719 --> 00:32:53,219 As a matter of fact, in the newspapers, they quote me... 435 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:56,215 No foul play was known at the time. 436 00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:01,439 And they kept coming to us, "Did you hear anything? Did you do anything?" 437 00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:05,730 Uh, they'd come to me and I'd say, "The investigation is still on. I..." 438 00:33:06,526 --> 00:33:07,986 That was all I could tell them. 439 00:33:12,073 --> 00:33:15,293 From day one, Barnold is essentially telling everybody: 440 00:33:15,368 --> 00:33:17,313 "We don't think it's kidnapping. We don't 441 00:33:17,325 --> 00:33:19,328 see a problem. We're okay. We'll be fine." 442 00:33:19,873 --> 00:33:21,963 "What's going on here? Where is she?" 443 00:33:22,417 --> 00:33:25,047 "We can't find her. We don't know. Nobody knows." 444 00:33:27,339 --> 00:33:28,719 I didn't wanna seem evasive, 445 00:33:28,798 --> 00:33:32,838 but as I said, I was supervising robberies, homicides. 446 00:33:32,928 --> 00:33:37,348 We were averaging 200 homicides a year even then in Baltimore City. 447 00:33:37,891 --> 00:33:42,271 So, with 200 homicides, numerous assaults, sex offenses, 448 00:33:43,063 --> 00:33:46,733 I couldn't really devote my time to one specific case. 449 00:33:47,692 --> 00:33:51,112 I just had to trust my supervisors, my lieutenants and sergeants 450 00:33:51,196 --> 00:33:52,356 to get the work done. 451 00:33:54,908 --> 00:33:57,738 The longer she was missing, the more we suspected foul play, 452 00:33:57,827 --> 00:33:59,957 but you don't wanna advertise it either. 453 00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:05,752 With the disappearance of Sister Cesnik and the disappearance of Joyce Malecki, 454 00:34:05,835 --> 00:34:11,165 and both of them being young white females, attractive, shopping, 455 00:34:11,258 --> 00:34:15,008 and nobody could give an excuse, under those circumstances, 456 00:34:15,637 --> 00:34:18,755 you have to... go with the possibility 457 00:34:18,767 --> 00:34:22,137 that there has been serious consequences, 458 00:34:22,227 --> 00:34:25,357 that there may have been a kidnapping or a murder. 459 00:34:39,494 --> 00:34:43,334 I remember going back to school and everybody just shaking their heads, 460 00:34:43,415 --> 00:34:46,125 because nobody could believe that she would disappear. 461 00:34:47,252 --> 00:34:51,262 It's hard to describe how you feel when you know somebody's in trouble 462 00:34:51,339 --> 00:34:53,219 and there's nothing you can do about it. 463 00:34:53,967 --> 00:34:56,677 Like, how can Cathy be kidnapped? 464 00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:58,141 That doesn't make sense. 465 00:34:58,555 --> 00:34:59,965 None of it made sense. 466 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,650 As school went on from November into the Christmas time, 467 00:35:06,605 --> 00:35:10,145 I kind of think we all thought she'd never be found. 468 00:35:11,943 --> 00:35:14,573 We knew there was an investigation going on, 469 00:35:14,654 --> 00:35:16,914 but it wasn't visible to us anymore. 470 00:35:17,282 --> 00:35:19,992 We didn't see pictures of people looking in the fields 471 00:35:20,076 --> 00:35:25,286 and people with dogs out looking for the presence of Cathy Cesnik. 472 00:35:27,208 --> 00:35:31,918 We had so many questions, and we didn't think we were gonna get any answers. 473 00:35:49,898 --> 00:35:53,278 From November the 7th until mid-January, 474 00:35:54,194 --> 00:35:56,074 I had no idea what happened to Cathy. 475 00:35:57,906 --> 00:35:58,736 And... 476 00:36:01,034 --> 00:36:04,834 what I learned from that is the imagination goes crazy... 477 00:36:06,665 --> 00:36:08,745 'cause you imagine it two different ways. 478 00:36:08,833 --> 00:36:14,263 You imagine in a way that keeps her alive, because you want her to be alive. 479 00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:17,093 But then what do you plug into that? 480 00:36:17,801 --> 00:36:20,141 She's being held captive. She's being tortured. 481 00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:23,600 She's being repressed. And that gets too hard to bear. 482 00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,859 So, then you start going the other way. "Let's imagine that she's dead." 483 00:36:32,273 --> 00:36:33,823 I don't want-I don't want that. 484 00:36:37,153 --> 00:36:41,073 So, that was a very black period in my life. 485 00:36:50,583 --> 00:36:57,343 "The body of 26-year-old Catherine Cesnik was found January 3rd, 1970, 486 00:36:57,424 --> 00:36:59,844 in southwest Baltimore County. 487 00:37:02,011 --> 00:37:04,811 She was lying on her back on the slope of a little hill. 488 00:37:05,306 --> 00:37:09,806 Sister Cathy wound up on the garbage dump with her skull caved in." 489 00:37:23,908 --> 00:37:27,078 I can remember I was leaning against a wall 490 00:37:27,162 --> 00:37:30,172 when somebody was telling me that they found the body. 491 00:37:31,458 --> 00:37:35,548 And I remember sliding my back down the wall to sit on the floor. 492 00:37:37,046 --> 00:37:39,216 And mostly, the feeling was relief. 493 00:37:42,510 --> 00:37:43,340 Now... 494 00:37:44,637 --> 00:37:47,137 Now the waiting to find out what happened is over. 495 00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:59,610 James Scannell is a retired 496 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,120 Baltimore County policeman, okay? 497 00:38:05,325 --> 00:38:06,905 Wonderful reputation. 498 00:38:07,535 --> 00:38:09,115 Was involved 499 00:38:09,204 --> 00:38:13,084 at the time that Sister Cathy's body was discovered in Lansdowne, 500 00:38:13,792 --> 00:38:18,462 took the call from the hunters who reported it and went out. 501 00:38:18,546 --> 00:38:21,296 He was the first officer on the scene. 502 00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:26,642 He has agreed to take us to the spot where Cathy's body was found. 503 00:38:27,096 --> 00:38:29,266 Alan Horn contacted him. 504 00:38:30,183 --> 00:38:34,103 Yeah, Alan Horn is a very helpful man 505 00:38:34,187 --> 00:38:39,027 who approached us through our public justice Facebook site. 506 00:38:39,609 --> 00:38:45,739 Um, he told us that he was mostly retired, 507 00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:48,584 that he didn't like to go fishing, 508 00:38:49,452 --> 00:38:54,622 and that as a hobby, he helped groups by doing research for them. 509 00:38:54,707 --> 00:38:56,667 We didn't know much about Alan. 510 00:38:56,751 --> 00:39:00,881 He came onto our Facebook page and started posting. 511 00:39:01,631 --> 00:39:06,511 Alan is great with talking to families, making cold calls 512 00:39:06,594 --> 00:39:11,644 to find out who's connected to whom and to reach out to people that we were... 513 00:39:11,724 --> 00:39:15,814 really felt like would be instrumental in giving us information and... 514 00:39:15,895 --> 00:39:17,515 But we weren't sure how to do it. 515 00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:39,090 I have a lot of doubts about Scannell, but he doesn't need to know that. 516 00:39:42,463 --> 00:39:43,423 I'm Alan Horn. 517 00:39:44,674 --> 00:39:45,514 Thank you. 518 00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:49,968 I will do my part to make him feel comfortable 519 00:39:50,054 --> 00:39:52,644 and honor what he's sharing with us. 520 00:39:53,766 --> 00:39:57,056 Hi, I was one of... I was one of Cathy's students. 521 00:39:57,145 --> 00:40:00,895 Oh, okay. So, it means a lot to me to meet you, 522 00:40:00,982 --> 00:40:05,652 and I can't tell you how much that means, so, thank you for... 523 00:40:05,737 --> 00:40:07,407 No problem. For sharing with us. 524 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:08,698 Yeah. I really mean that. 525 00:40:08,907 --> 00:40:11,077 She meant everything to me, so... 526 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,330 But I'm actually looking and listening for other signs... 527 00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:19,710 so, I will know what I'm going to do and say and... 528 00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:21,630 When I get there. 529 00:40:26,549 --> 00:40:30,759 I'm Jim Scannell, law enforcement for 38 years. 530 00:40:31,971 --> 00:40:34,681 I worked just about all over Baltimore County. 531 00:40:35,433 --> 00:40:37,273 Well, I was the lieutenant on duty... 532 00:40:38,102 --> 00:40:41,022 in Halethorpe at the time the body was found. 533 00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:44,068 And as the lieutenant, I responded. 534 00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:47,069 I met the officer at the scene. 535 00:40:47,153 --> 00:40:50,373 He took me to an area to the right side of the road. 536 00:40:51,032 --> 00:40:55,162 It was a small plot where they probably burned trash or something like that. 537 00:40:55,995 --> 00:40:57,865 And it wasn't a big dump 538 00:40:57,956 --> 00:41:02,536 or anything like-Just what would you find in a normal household 539 00:41:02,627 --> 00:41:06,167 or community where, you know, they get rid of debris. 540 00:41:07,048 --> 00:41:07,918 I can still... 541 00:41:09,217 --> 00:41:10,217 Still see the... 542 00:41:10,718 --> 00:41:12,848 Her laying on the ground, laying on her back. 543 00:41:12,929 --> 00:41:15,769 It stays with you, you know? You never forget it. 544 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:18,096 But it... 545 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,060 It's part of your job, and you accept it, I guess. 546 00:41:23,106 --> 00:41:26,146 And the question is, was she dumped there? Was she murdered there? 547 00:41:26,651 --> 00:41:27,901 What transpired? 548 00:41:28,236 --> 00:41:32,486 Prior to that, it was, I guess, almost two months, but, uh... 549 00:41:34,659 --> 00:41:38,449 If they haven't changed the terrain, I think I can get back there again. 550 00:42:06,315 --> 00:42:07,225 This one here. 551 00:42:07,942 --> 00:42:08,782 Right here. 552 00:42:13,906 --> 00:42:14,736 We were here. 553 00:42:16,367 --> 00:42:19,787 So, it was a good 20 yards off the road, where the body was. 554 00:42:25,168 --> 00:42:27,128 She was just laying there on her back, 555 00:42:27,211 --> 00:42:30,631 and her clothes were stripped down to her waist. 556 00:42:31,174 --> 00:42:33,804 Her purse was laying alongside of her. 557 00:42:36,179 --> 00:42:39,719 Condition of the body indicated that she was there for a while. 558 00:42:41,476 --> 00:42:42,556 No fresh blood. 559 00:42:43,227 --> 00:42:47,607 She wasn't shot. She wasn't stabbed... that I could see. 560 00:42:51,944 --> 00:42:54,164 I think probably she was dumped there, 561 00:42:54,906 --> 00:42:58,326 just dumped out of the car and laying there on her back. 562 00:43:00,286 --> 00:43:01,656 She hadn't deteriorated. 563 00:43:03,206 --> 00:43:06,036 No maggots or anything like that. 564 00:43:19,305 --> 00:43:20,925 I just wanna say goodbye to you 565 00:43:21,015 --> 00:43:23,765 and thank you for your help today. Oh, okay. No problem. 566 00:43:23,851 --> 00:43:26,271 We're really sorry we dragged you all over tarnation. 567 00:43:26,354 --> 00:43:30,324 Sorry it didn't turn out better. No. I mean, it's not a happy thing to do. 568 00:43:30,399 --> 00:43:32,779 Because I was one of her students... Uh-huh. 569 00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:36,360 ...I just feel like I need to know as much as I can about what happened to her. 570 00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:43,079 Well, between... her disappearance and there, 571 00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:45,251 that's where the answer lies. 572 00:43:46,791 --> 00:43:50,631 Everything in between is only known by the guy who did it. 573 00:43:50,711 --> 00:43:52,591 Can I ask you one more question? Yeah. 574 00:43:52,672 --> 00:43:56,882 Was it your gut instinct that she had been moved several times maybe 575 00:43:56,968 --> 00:43:58,508 before she was left there? 576 00:44:00,179 --> 00:44:02,639 They would probably know once they moved the body. 577 00:44:02,723 --> 00:44:03,683 They what? 578 00:44:03,766 --> 00:44:05,056 Once they moved the body. 579 00:44:05,768 --> 00:44:09,938 Other words, I-I could just base my observation on what I've seen. 580 00:44:10,022 --> 00:44:12,152 Because she was laying on her back? Yeah. 581 00:44:12,233 --> 00:44:13,693 Bud Roemer was there. Right. 582 00:44:13,776 --> 00:44:16,146 Baltimore City detectives were there. Right. 583 00:44:16,237 --> 00:44:18,237 Do you remember any of their names? 584 00:44:18,322 --> 00:44:20,782 Just Bud Roemer, and he's dead. Bud, and he's gone. 585 00:44:21,242 --> 00:44:22,742 When we were at your house, 586 00:44:22,827 --> 00:44:25,907 you told me some information. I wanted to ask you about it again. 587 00:44:25,997 --> 00:44:32,627 You said it might be possible to get the report from the patrol officer. 588 00:44:32,712 --> 00:44:36,632 And who would we call to do that besides you? 589 00:44:36,716 --> 00:44:38,506 Have to call headquarters. 590 00:44:38,593 --> 00:44:40,263 Do you know anybody that we...? 591 00:44:40,344 --> 00:44:42,644 Do you have any friends in the police department? 592 00:44:42,722 --> 00:44:44,642 Most of them are retired, dead. 593 00:44:44,724 --> 00:44:47,984 You wouldn't wanna make that call for me if I treat you to a crab cake? 594 00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:49,650 I don't think they'd know me. 595 00:44:49,729 --> 00:44:51,649 Truthful, they wouldn't know me. 596 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,610 I bet they would. 597 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,230 The people would. 598 00:44:55,318 --> 00:44:57,568 You look like Paul Newman. Is that what it was? 599 00:44:57,653 --> 00:44:59,743 The blue eyes and the beard. Yeah. 600 00:45:00,406 --> 00:45:01,406 Okay. That's all. 601 00:45:01,490 --> 00:45:03,080 Gory stuff, huh? Yeah. 602 00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:04,659 Again, thank you. Okay. 603 00:45:04,785 --> 00:45:06,365 I appreciate your help. Alrighty. 604 00:45:06,454 --> 00:45:07,294 Okay. 605 00:45:25,348 --> 00:45:28,598 "Bud Roemer always drank his coffee black. 606 00:45:29,352 --> 00:45:31,522 He was in the middle of his third or fourth cup 607 00:45:31,604 --> 00:45:34,444 on the morning of January 3rd, 1970, 608 00:45:34,523 --> 00:45:35,653 when the telephone rang. 609 00:45:36,275 --> 00:45:37,645 Roemer picked up the phone. 610 00:45:38,277 --> 00:45:41,817 Talking fast, James Scannell told the M squad captain 611 00:45:41,906 --> 00:45:45,366 that two hunters had just called to report what looked like a woman's body 612 00:45:45,451 --> 00:45:48,081 lying near a garbage dump off Monumental Avenue. 613 00:45:48,621 --> 00:45:52,001 Moments later, Roemer and several members of the M squad climbed 614 00:45:52,083 --> 00:45:54,673 into one of the department's unmarked black Plymouths 615 00:45:55,252 --> 00:45:57,512 for the 20-mile ride to Lansdowne. 616 00:45:59,674 --> 00:46:03,344 Bud Roemer. He was in charge of all criminal investigations 617 00:46:03,427 --> 00:46:05,757 at Baltimore County Police Headquarters 618 00:46:06,347 --> 00:46:09,177 as chief of the M squad, the homicide squad. 619 00:46:09,266 --> 00:46:10,096 M for murder. 620 00:46:12,645 --> 00:46:14,475 'It was snowing when we got to the dump 621 00:46:14,563 --> 00:46:17,533 and cold as a son of a bitch,' the detective recalled. 622 00:46:18,818 --> 00:46:23,108 'When I walked up on that dump, I said, "Hello, Cathy Cesnik." 623 00:46:28,035 --> 00:46:30,035 We worked that crime scene all day long. 624 00:46:30,121 --> 00:46:33,791 We called in the medical examiner and we asked for an autopsy right away.' 625 00:46:34,625 --> 00:46:37,495 The nun had died of blunt-force trauma to one side of her head, 626 00:46:37,586 --> 00:46:40,876 along with a blow that had left a round hole in the back of her skull." 627 00:47:07,700 --> 00:47:09,708 "Mulling the autopsy, Roemer soon found 628 00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:11,790 himself contemplating a likely scenario. 629 00:47:12,705 --> 00:47:15,035 A stranger had probably abducted Cesnik 630 00:47:15,124 --> 00:47:17,837 from the Edmondson Village Shopping Center 631 00:47:17,849 --> 00:47:20,384 on Edmondson Avenue near her apartment. 632 00:47:24,216 --> 00:47:27,886 In all likelihood, the unknown assailant had then killed the nun 633 00:47:28,304 --> 00:47:30,724 and dumped her body about five miles away. 634 00:47:35,644 --> 00:47:38,944 But his hypothesis was contradicted by one troubling fact. 635 00:47:40,441 --> 00:47:46,661 The nun's car, a green 1969 Ford Maverick, had been parked at an odd angle, 636 00:47:47,198 --> 00:47:51,368 illegally, near her Carriage House apartment complex 637 00:47:51,452 --> 00:47:54,712 only a few hours after she drove off to the shopping center. 638 00:47:56,332 --> 00:48:00,672 How had the dead woman's Ford gotten back to her apartment complex? 639 00:48:03,005 --> 00:48:06,125 In that situation, the killer wants to get the hell away from there. 640 00:48:06,509 --> 00:48:08,889 Last thing he wants is to return to the area 641 00:48:08,969 --> 00:48:11,679 where he might be spotted driving the victim's car." 642 00:48:15,643 --> 00:48:17,273 Yeah, with the Sister Cesnik case, 643 00:48:17,353 --> 00:48:19,693 until the body was found two months later... 644 00:48:20,356 --> 00:48:23,816 during the interim, we investigated numerous people, 645 00:48:23,901 --> 00:48:25,951 anybody that could have been involved with her. 646 00:48:26,028 --> 00:48:29,698 Students, friends, her roommate, the place she worked at. 647 00:48:32,868 --> 00:48:34,448 She was an attractive woman. 648 00:48:35,037 --> 00:48:38,997 It could have been somebody just living in that area... followed her 649 00:48:39,083 --> 00:48:42,593 or stopped her car or waved her down where her car was found. 650 00:48:45,506 --> 00:48:46,966 Somebody put the car there. 651 00:48:47,591 --> 00:48:51,851 And, yeah, it would have been so much easier if whoever killed her 652 00:48:51,929 --> 00:48:55,019 just dumped the car somewhere in the woods where she was. 653 00:48:59,895 --> 00:49:02,265 With homicides, time is a destroyer. 654 00:49:02,898 --> 00:49:05,358 In other words, you could see the bodies decompose. 655 00:49:05,442 --> 00:49:09,662 Blood work disintegrates. Weather washes things away. 656 00:49:10,322 --> 00:49:14,292 And the longer you wait, the harder it is to get good evidence. 657 00:49:16,871 --> 00:49:18,081 There's so many scenarios. 658 00:49:18,164 --> 00:49:21,754 You know, you can really go wild trying to find out different things. 659 00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:34,969 We have two facts. 660 00:49:36,557 --> 00:49:38,477 She was abducted and she was killed. 661 00:49:40,811 --> 00:49:43,361 Beyond that, I don't know exactly what we have. 662 00:49:45,024 --> 00:49:50,034 And the cops always told us that there was no forensic evidence in that car... 663 00:49:51,363 --> 00:49:54,163 but the fact of where the car was parked... 664 00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:58,622 combined with the fact of where her body was found 665 00:49:58,704 --> 00:49:59,874 some months later... 666 00:50:00,915 --> 00:50:03,915 is a detail that's always been stuck in my throat. 667 00:50:06,754 --> 00:50:09,424 Because where her body was found... 668 00:50:10,507 --> 00:50:14,257 was not an area where you would just casually drive by it 669 00:50:14,929 --> 00:50:17,599 and say, "Oh, here's a good place to dump a body." 670 00:50:19,099 --> 00:50:21,389 But this was a very out-of-the-way area... 671 00:50:22,937 --> 00:50:26,647 which led me to believe that it was somebody who knew that area very well. 672 00:50:29,652 --> 00:50:31,702 We went into this collecting information. 673 00:50:31,779 --> 00:50:33,319 We said, "We don't know what happened. 674 00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:35,603 Let's collect every little bit of scrap, 675 00:50:35,615 --> 00:50:37,825 listen to every story somebody tells us, 676 00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:40,540 and when we feel like we've hit a dead end, 677 00:50:40,621 --> 00:50:43,121 we'll sit down and go through all this and say: 678 00:50:43,207 --> 00:50:45,127 "What direction is this pointing us in?" 679 00:50:45,834 --> 00:50:47,999 This is not Abbie and Gemma sitting at a 680 00:50:48,011 --> 00:50:50,134 table being detectives or playing Clue. 681 00:50:50,798 --> 00:50:55,338 It's wrong. It's wrong what's happened, but they're still unsolved. 682 00:50:55,427 --> 00:50:59,057 We need justice for Cathy Cesnik and Joyce Malecki. 683 00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:02,479 I have this image of myself in a room 684 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,189 with all these wires hanging down, all these electric wires, 685 00:51:06,272 --> 00:51:07,822 and none of them are connecting. 686 00:51:09,191 --> 00:51:14,951 I'm tentatively optimistic, but I'm impatient for connections. 687 00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:23,040 I've been pursuing this for the last 15 years. 688 00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:27,000 I've been calling FBI and... 689 00:51:27,084 --> 00:51:30,384 Time in and time out. And I get the same answers. 690 00:51:30,462 --> 00:51:33,722 I visited them. I went and knocked on their door. 691 00:51:33,799 --> 00:51:36,429 "What have you done in the last 15, 20 years?" 692 00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:39,927 And the only thing they tell me is: 693 00:51:40,014 --> 00:51:42,434 "It's an open case and we cannot discuss it." 694 00:51:43,434 --> 00:51:47,984 It almost leads me, personally, to believe it's a cover-up, 695 00:51:48,647 --> 00:51:50,767 because I can't get any information. 696 00:51:51,275 --> 00:51:53,435 You know, and here's two big flags that go up, 697 00:51:54,111 --> 00:51:56,321 and both of them are unresolved. 698 00:51:57,072 --> 00:51:58,992 It's awful coincidental. 699 00:52:00,909 --> 00:52:03,949 Even if they come out and say, "We don't have anything," 700 00:52:04,038 --> 00:52:06,078 at least they would be talking. 701 00:52:06,165 --> 00:52:07,365 They won't even do that. 702 00:52:09,626 --> 00:52:11,166 You know, Baltimore is... 703 00:52:13,922 --> 00:52:18,182 Has its level of corruption, and it's got its hierarchy. 704 00:52:22,139 --> 00:52:24,979 A retired detective that I interviewed frequently 705 00:52:25,059 --> 00:52:27,479 who worked on it often says to me: 706 00:52:27,561 --> 00:52:32,111 "Nugent, the real problem here is the cover-up itself. 707 00:52:32,608 --> 00:52:36,738 The cover-up itself is the cancer inside Baltimore." 708 00:52:44,661 --> 00:52:45,951 This is where she's buried. 709 00:52:51,043 --> 00:52:53,503 My sister Joyce and Sister Cathy. 710 00:52:53,587 --> 00:52:56,917 They were put on this Earth same as the rest of us. 711 00:52:57,007 --> 00:53:01,297 Somebody needs to come out in the open and acknowledge the fact 712 00:53:01,387 --> 00:53:03,347 that this is how they were taken away. 713 00:53:05,682 --> 00:53:06,892 This was somebody's life, 714 00:53:06,975 --> 00:53:10,515 and people are ready to just say, "Oh, well," and move on to the next thing. 715 00:53:10,938 --> 00:53:12,728 It's never sat right with me. 716 00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:17,530 So, when I saw that there were other women that were like: 717 00:53:17,611 --> 00:53:19,821 "We wanna find out who killed Sister Cathy," 718 00:53:20,447 --> 00:53:25,447 you know, retired women, grandmothers that haven't let go of this... 719 00:53:26,745 --> 00:53:28,455 And Tom Nugent, who... 720 00:53:28,539 --> 00:53:33,879 This has been his lifelong pursuit, right, since he first heard about it. 721 00:53:35,796 --> 00:53:38,716 We're at a point now where we're not gonna let it go. 722 00:53:40,217 --> 00:53:44,137 We're gonna do whatever it is we need to do to get justice. 723 00:53:48,809 --> 00:53:51,809 So, how does this story begin? 724 00:53:56,024 --> 00:53:59,074 There are two key characters in this sad story. 725 00:54:00,821 --> 00:54:03,201 One is a murdered nun, Sister Cathy. 726 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,700 The other is the witness, Jane Doe... 727 00:54:12,374 --> 00:54:15,754 a student at the Catholic high school where Sister Cathy taught. 728 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,050 There was a mystery around Jane Doe's identity. 729 00:54:23,010 --> 00:54:27,600 Everything starts there, and everything still hinges there. 730 00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:32,849 Jane Doe probably knows exactly what happened, 731 00:54:32,936 --> 00:54:39,816 and it has taken her 45 years to gradually confront the full horror in herself. 732 00:54:42,863 --> 00:54:44,033 Who is Jane Doe? 733 00:54:45,574 --> 00:54:46,704 Jane Doe? 734 00:54:48,118 --> 00:54:49,998 I'd love to talk to her now... 735 00:54:51,538 --> 00:54:56,038 'cause she had a story to tell, but we never got to hear it. 62711

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.