All language subtitles for Episode 05 The Murder of Bridie Skehan

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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:06,520 This was my very first day on a murder team in the met police 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,200 and I got the call to say, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,800 "Looks like there may be a job in Paddington 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:13,320 "down near Marble Arch." 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,400 It was Colin Sutton's first day in the office 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,480 and Colin said "Dave, we've got a call, 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:21,520 "we're ready now." 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,480 It was as quick as that. 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,240 It was a funny sort of situation that day 10 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 because we were quite literally thrown in at the deep end. 11 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,160 We go to the scene, 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,680 of what we were told was a missing lady, 13 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,320 hadn't been seen for a few days. 14 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,360 This particular case was a very big job 15 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,440 in terms of involving proper detective work. 16 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,840 And it gave me an opportunity to see 17 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,720 most of the members of my team in action for real. 18 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,360 It was really just what I needed 19 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,680 at the very start of my career with my new team. 20 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,200 It was a crime of almost breathtaking... 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,520 The man who tried to kill her will never be free to harm again... 22 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,080 The life sentence may provide some closure 23 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,920 for his victims' families. 24 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,200 ..targeted young women unable to defend themselves. 25 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,520 Colin Sutton was a detective chief inspector 26 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 and senior investigating officer at the Metropolitan Police. 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,400 He led the investigations 28 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,040 into some of the most complex and high-profile cases ever, 29 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,080 bringing dangerous criminals to justice. 30 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,280 He showed his... 31 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,520 Then the screaming... 32 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,880 ..another 146 victims. 33 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,520 In this series, we will take you inside those cases 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,160 and show you how he caught these criminals using nothing 35 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,400 but pure detective work. 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,640 This is The Real Manhunter. 37 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,440 Now been found guilty on all... 38 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,520 - ..place charges... - The oldest victim... 39 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,800 The officer in charge described it as a senseless tragedy. 40 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,480 The life sentence may provide some closure 41 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,960 for his victims' families. 42 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:11,880 When I joined the police, 43 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,880 I had no idea what specialism I might want to do, 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,720 I just thought, you know, I wanted to be a policeman. 45 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,520 I wanted to be in uniform 46 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,520 and run around chasing people and driving after people, 47 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,840 and catching criminals and helping people, 48 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:26,840 and all the other things you do. 49 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:28,000 What I did know or thought 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,320 I knew is that I didn't want to be a detective. 51 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,480 And it all kind of changed the very first time 52 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,160 I went into a room where there was a murder squad in operation. 53 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,320 I just thought, "That's actually a really good job, 54 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,560 "that is, I quite fancy doing that." 55 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:42,080 It was just a hopeless dream at the time, 56 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,920 I never thought it would actually happen, 57 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,040 and I was on a different career path completely 58 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,240 which meant a quick promotion 59 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,200 to at least to inspector and working in uniform, 60 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:52,280 and I did all that. 61 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Then I got the chance to go to be a detective. 62 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,160 On the first day I met Colin, 63 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,800 I immediately realised that... 64 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:01,880 here was a man 65 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,240 that was very warm and friendly, 66 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,200 and he was in a raincoat, 67 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,000 a smart suit and shiny leather shoes which policemen always have, 68 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,720 and I was probably in scutches which journalists always have. 69 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,880 He's jovial, he's intelligent, he's a fair man, 70 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,640 and he doesn't let himself 71 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,040 be led by peer pressure, 72 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,120 he's somebody 73 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,040 who is his own individual character. 74 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,080 I've always just found him 75 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,800 to be fair and sensible and straightforward. 76 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:31,880 He was a good boss. 77 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,200 Colin and I, and other reporters built up a good relationship, 78 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,280 one of trust... 79 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,400 and I suppose understanding for each other's different roles. 80 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,920 Colin Sutton joined the murder team that I was on at Barnes 81 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,840 and it was the first time I'd ever met Colin. 82 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,360 Colin is a nice guy, he's very personable, 83 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,560 very down to earth 84 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,360 and he is, or was, 85 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,400 what I would call 86 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:04,480 a collaborative manager, 87 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,400 so at my level, at DC level, 88 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,040 it was refreshing to have a DCI who would talk to you, 89 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,120 you know, about anything 90 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,440 and you could go to him about anything 91 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,000 and there wouldn't be any heirs or graces. 92 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,720 He was quite a character. 93 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,360 I first met Colin Sutton when he was addressing the team, 94 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,480 he introduced himself 95 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,520 in what I would consider to be a humble way. 96 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:25,760 He seemed relaxed. 97 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:27,880 We were a strong, capable group... 98 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,600 of detectives and police staff 99 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,200 and I think it enabled us 100 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,680 to hit the ground running. 101 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,000 On 3 January 2003, 102 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,520 that was my first day with my new murder team 103 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,880 at Barnes in South West London on the western part 104 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,640 of the homicide and serious crime command. 105 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,760 And although I had been senior investigating officer 106 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:57,480 on a few other cases 107 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,000 when I was serving with other forces, 108 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,280 this was the first time I had a team 109 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:05,880 that was dedicated 110 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,920 to only doing serious crime all the time 111 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,440 and I knew that in that respect, 112 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,200 most of my team had more experience than I did. 113 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:18,400 So, you know, it was something I approached 114 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,560 with a little bit of apprehension, 115 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,680 I wanted to make sure that I did it well 116 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,080 and that I could prove to the team that they could trust me 117 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,920 just the same as I was going to have to watch them and see 118 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,160 that I could trust them. 119 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,640 I went in that day and was sort of introducing myself 120 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,400 to the members of the team and talking 121 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,000 and they were talking me through 122 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,600 a few of the sort of current outstanding investigations. 123 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,520 And about 1:30 in the afternoon, 124 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,440 I got a phone call from the main office 125 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,000 for the homicide group 126 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,240 and they said, "Your team is now in the frame." 127 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,160 At that time, Colin was so brand-new. 128 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,160 I mean, actually, I remember Colin remarking. 129 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,800 I think that day, he said, "I'm a lucky cop, 130 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,120 "everything I do, I get lucky." 131 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,200 When a job comes in, usually a call will come in via, 132 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,080 certainly in that era, 133 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,880 would have come in usually to one of the DIs or to Colin, 134 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,000 direct, saying, "There is a case, there's a potential murder... 135 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,800 and wherever that case is, 136 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,360 we would send out a kind of core team, 137 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,400 a core role team to the scene 138 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,200 which would involve exhibits officers, 139 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:33,320 house to house inquiry team, CCTV teams, 140 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,560 just to really start the ball rolling to kind of gather 141 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,640 as much evidence as we possibly can in particularly the first hour, 142 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:40,720 which is really important. 143 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,640 It was a funny sort of situation that day in some ways 144 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,160 because we were quite literally thrown in at the deep end. 145 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,760 You know, I didn't have time to sit down 146 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:49,880 and talk to each one of the officers 147 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,400 and find out what they thought about things 148 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:53,840 and how they worked. 149 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,600 I just about moved my things into the office... 150 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,040 and we were out on a job. 151 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,200 I suppose in some ways, 152 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,760 I didn't really know how best to deal with it. 153 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:08,800 Do I just send somebody to have a look and report back to me 154 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,600 or what would they be expecting me to do? 155 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,480 I thought, well, it can't really do any harm 156 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,520 if I'm there, can it? 157 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,280 Because if I'm there making decisions on the scene, 158 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,680 then it's probably the best way to do it, 159 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,920 so I grabbed a handful of officers 160 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,080 and said, "Come on, let's go down and take a look." 161 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,400 We very quickly have to step 162 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,320 into a professional manner and off we went... 163 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,160 in our various roles, my brother was exhibits, 164 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,680 and I was part of a general team who were combing the area for CCTV 165 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,800 and other bits and pieces that we had to do. 166 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,680 First thing would have been to identify any potential witnesses. 167 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,280 It was a 92-year-old lady 168 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,120 who had been missing from her flat at Lanchester Court 169 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,120 for the best part of a week. 170 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,240 So, I came down here with some of the members of my team, 171 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,000 we met the local police and a local DI here 172 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,120 and he told us this woman was Bridie Skehan. 173 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,120 She was a colourful character, an interesting character, 174 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,160 she had quite a life. 175 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,040 During the Second World War, 176 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,960 she had worked at the American embassy, 177 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,160 and after that, she became an interior designer. 178 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,840 She had a love for big, sort of ostentatious American cars. 179 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,760 She kind of led a life with the party set 180 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,200 and the money set in London... 181 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,480 and was something of, I don't know, a socialite, a sort of celebrity. 182 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,200 Bridie had been married at some point of her life, 183 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:44,680 but it didn't work out, she was divorced, 184 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,080 and she lived alone for many years. 185 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,400 And now, in her 90s, she lived here, 186 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,360 she had a flat, she rented out rooms in it to lodgers, 187 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,960 one of the lodgers came back from Christmas with his family 188 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,720 while we were in the premises and he started talking to us 189 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,800 and he told us that Bridie had last been seen by Molly 190 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,000 who was her neighbour, who lived opposite. 191 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,320 She had been missing for around about a week 192 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:10,760 and obviously with her age, 92, 193 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,680 you can understand why the local police 194 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,200 and indeed her lodger and Molly, 195 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,320 her friend were fearful for her safety. 196 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,400 We got talking to them 197 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,680 and they told us there were two other lodgers, 198 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,200 a couple, a Filipino woman and a Middle Eastern man 199 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,600 who weren't here, but they should have been here, 200 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,760 they were meant to be staying in the flat all over Christmas. 201 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,680 A pillar of the local catholic community in that area, 202 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,240 a woman who was reasonably well off, who had close friends. 203 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,880 There was no earthly reason for her to go missing 204 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,640 at this time in these circumstances. 205 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,800 We went to the ground floor flat 206 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,720 and we made inquiries with the lady who lived opposite, 207 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,520 a very good friend. 208 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,680 And she told us all about Bridie and that she hadn't seen her, 209 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,280 gave us a bit of lifestyle, and... 210 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:04,920 we went into the flat. 211 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,160 There was a local detective inspector 212 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,560 from Paddington Green, 213 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,240 and he was telling us what Molly had told him 214 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,040 and what the sort of current state of knowledge was. 215 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,720 Although there was the mystery of her whereabouts at that time, 216 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,120 it would have been quite clear to those detectives 217 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,400 from a very early stage that all was not right 218 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,960 and there was a very good prospect that harm had come to Bridie. 219 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,560 We had a uniformed cop there with us, 220 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,200 a local cop who was kind of looking at the missing person side. 221 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,440 So, we went into the kitchen... 222 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,800 and as we were talking... 223 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,680 we looked around and clearly the place was tidy, 224 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,600 we didn't know at the time that it had been tidied up, 225 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:52,440 but it was tidy. 226 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,040 On the floor, I remember seeing what looked like blood staining, 227 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,240 just on the floor in the kitchen near the back door. 228 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,760 Not enough the way you're talking bright red blood, 229 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,520 but you could tell there was something there, 230 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,120 but we couldn't get out the back door, 231 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,200 the back door was locked. 232 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,800 While we were there, one of the lodgers came back. 233 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,480 He'd been away with his family for Christmas 234 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,400 and you know, he had sort of asked what we were doing, 235 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:15,440 and we explained, 236 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,280 and he was sort of scratching his head 237 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,360 and looking around with us. 238 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,040 And I saw his sort of gaze 239 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,000 was on some hooks in the kitchen and it was clear 240 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,920 that there was something that caught his eye, 241 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,520 so I said, "What's wrong? 242 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:30,600 What's the matter?" 243 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,880 We were having sort of a cursory look around the flat 244 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,040 and there was nothing obviously amiss, 245 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,800 no signs of any struggle or anything 246 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,760 that would have sort of raised alarm bells, 247 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,000 but while we were there, one of the lodgers came back. 248 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,880 And he told us that there was a key to the shed for the flat 249 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,560 that ought to have been hanging on a hook in the kitchen 250 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,640 and it was missing. 251 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,760 The key moment in this case really fell 252 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,200 when the detectives were standing in her kitchen 253 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,520 and their attention alighted on a key hook, 254 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,680 a key hook missing a key, 255 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,600 a key which eventually unlocked 256 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:15,560 this murder investigation. 257 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,640 I kind of looked at the local DI and he looked at me 258 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,240 and we sort of shrugged our shoulders 259 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,080 because we weren't aware that this flat had a shed 260 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,120 which went with it 261 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,720 and the lawyer explained that if you go back out into the street 262 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,640 and along the end of the block, there was like an archway 263 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,040 and that took you to sort of the service alley 264 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,400 round behind the block of flats, 265 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,000 and there was sort of brick built outhouses, 266 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,040 they weren't very big 267 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,920 and some of the flats had one allocated to them 268 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,120 and Bridie's flat did. 269 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,560 By this time, the weather had become quite foul 270 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,360 and it was snowing really, really heavily. 271 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,920 Given that the key was missing, and we now knew there was another, 272 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,440 essentially, part of the premises that hadn't been searched, 273 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,160 we thought we better go around there and do it. 274 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,560 We went back out into the street, walked around the building 275 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,240 and ended up here in the alley behind Lanchester Court. 276 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,440 At the time, it was thick with snow and we went to the shed 277 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,320 and of course it was locked, and we didn't have the key. 278 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,760 On the floor, on the concrete step, in and around... 279 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,000 I saw what I thought was blood again, 280 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,480 you can't be sure, obviously without testing it, 281 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,600 but there looked like there was blood on the inside, 282 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,240 there wasn't literally a blood trail, 283 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,840 but it looked like blood, couldn't be sure, 284 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,760 but we decided we were gonna go in. 285 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,880 Dave Leach put his shoulder against the door 286 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,120 and very quickly we were in. 287 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,040 And through some torchlight, we could see a lot of clutter. 288 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,360 As is the case with all potential crime scenes, 289 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,160 you try to limit the number of people going in. 290 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,080 Colin stayed at the door, 291 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,400 and I went in, I had a torch and as I went in... 292 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,280 I could see a large television box. 293 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,760 Over at the far wall was this big cardboard box. 294 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,560 At the very bottom corner of the television box, 295 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,840 there was what looked like blood staining. 296 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,640 There was a quadrant at the bottom corner 297 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,160 that was a sort of a dark brown, red-y colour 298 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,800 and it looked as if something had leaked onto it... 299 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,320 and it was very ominous. 300 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,920 So, Dave Leach put his suit on 301 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,560 and went in and very carefully, with a scalpel, 302 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,360 just cut away enough of this reddened area 303 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,400 so that we could see inside the box. 304 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,160 I had a torch in one hand, and I was on my knees 305 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,640 and I just cut the corner of the box out. 306 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,080 We shone a bright torch on, 307 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,640 and we saw this fine silvery hair which was Bridie's head. 308 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,600 As you can imagine, from that point in, 309 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,680 we knew it was a murder scene 310 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,200 and he needed to get the team down here, 311 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,760 that meant local inquiries, CCTV retrieval, 312 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,520 whatever route that Colin was deciding to go at that stage. 313 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,200 He really had to just allow the team to just do its job 314 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,560 because he'd newly arrived, 315 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,400 he would have had no concept of people's capability, 316 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,120 who was strong in which department. 317 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,720 And for him, 318 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,240 and what he did particularly well was to sit there 319 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:52,120 and allow the DIs and the DSs to divide the roles 320 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,960 amongst the detectives who were there at the time 321 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,840 and his role really was to be strategic 322 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,400 and to concentrate his resources on areas 323 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,240 he felt would be important. 324 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,280 We waited then, went outside, spoke to Colin, 325 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,000 got the team on standby, 326 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,320 I've got them all racing down to where we were. 327 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,480 When the crime scene coordinator turned up, 328 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,680 we then carefully removed everything from that particular box 329 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,320 and then we, in an effort to preserve the tape, 330 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,320 we then cut around the box with a scalpel 331 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,400 and lifted the box off... 332 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,600 and then we removed some material from inside 333 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,000 and then in a kind of foetal position, 334 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,440 dressed in a dressing gown from memory, was the old lady, 335 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,040 who even from the first look had clearly been beaten. 336 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,440 And then we removed the body, and the body was taken away. 337 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,360 We would have managed that scene very tightly and very quickly 338 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,360 and identified prime suspects pretty quickly. 339 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,280 The last time Bridie was seen was when she went with Molly, 340 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,480 her friend from the adjacent flat, 341 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,480 and they'd been to midnight mass at Westminster Cathedral 342 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,040 and they'd walked back from midnight mass together, 343 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:13,200 and that was the last time Molly saw her. 344 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,640 She was reported missing in between Christmas and New Year by Molly 345 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,960 and we had now got to 3 January, 346 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,440 so it was like getting on to 10 days that since she was last seen. 347 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,520 One of the things that Molly was able to tell us 348 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,200 was something about what was going on 349 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,760 in the flat prior to Christmas. 350 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,640 Bridie supplemented her pretty sort of low income 351 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,320 really by having lodgers in her big flat with her. 352 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,760 Bridie lived in her flat with a lodger who was a lawyer, 353 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,080 another lodger who was an accountant and then she had two other lodgers 354 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,080 who were kind of a couple 355 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,440 and they'd been there for a few months. 356 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,760 The woman was called Nimpha Ong 357 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,440 and the man in the couple was called Ahmed Al Haddad. 358 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,560 The lady gave us a bit of a flavour for who they were 359 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,160 and what age, etcetera, they were. 360 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,360 I believe she was about 49 from memory and he was 24. 361 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,960 It's an unusual age gap. 362 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,120 She was described as the dominant force 363 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,160 in the relationship 364 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,360 and he would basically do as he was told. 365 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,200 Just a young impressionable kind of guy, Middle Eastern 366 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,120 and she was, I believe, from the Philippines. 367 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,560 Once we knew the circumstances 368 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,760 of the tenancy and all that, 369 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,760 they became our prime suspects right away. 370 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,800 It was a four-bedroom flat, the lawyer lived in one bedroom, 371 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,440 accountant in another, and in theory, 372 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,080 Ong and Al Haddad had a bedroom each, 373 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,960 but what was really happening was that Ong and Al Haddad 374 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:56,280 were mostly always sharing a bed or sharing a bedroom. 375 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,160 And this kind of upset Bridie because of her morality 376 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,360 and she didn't want sort of two unmarried people 377 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,000 living under her roof. 378 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,920 In fact, Bridie who owned the flat had taken, because of this, 379 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,480 to sleeping on the sofa in the living room. 380 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:10,680 And they'd had words about it 381 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,360 and ultimately, Bridie had asked them 382 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,520 to leave the flat 383 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,520 and not to come back to it after Christmas. 384 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,240 The old lady opposite didn't speak fondly of them at all 385 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,280 and was quite openly saying 386 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,800 that she thinks that they were the ones 387 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,040 that killed poor Bridie. 388 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,040 She told me there was about 45,000, 50,000 pounds 389 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,160 hidden in the flat. 390 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,440 They found money everywhere, under the carpet, 391 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,800 in the settee, under the cushions, 392 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,600 they were finding wads of money everywhere, 393 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,480 and in the hallway, 394 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,160 wrapped up in a towel in the airing cupboard... 395 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,800 was a little safe with, from memory, about 50,000 pounds in cash. 396 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,120 Everybody had disappeared from the flat, there was nobody, 397 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,640 none of the lodgers were there. 398 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,920 They'd gone back home sort of for Christmas 399 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,240 and likewise, Al Haddad and Ong were not there. 400 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:08,920 From that point, 401 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,680 resources would have gone into finding the people 402 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,120 who were our prime suspects 403 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,960 and in particular that job did develop into a manhunt. 404 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,560 In the early hours of the morning, Colin had given some instructions 405 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,160 that they'd made some inquiries and they'd found a brother 406 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,320 who lived not far away off the Edgware road. 407 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,160 Several cars arrived and we were gonna go 408 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,600 and make some inquiries with the brother to see 409 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,120 what he knew about his brother and where he was 410 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,680 or where he could potentially be. 411 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:54,040 Trying to find the missing lodgers Nimpha Ong and Ahmed Al Haddad, 412 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,400 we came here to these flats 413 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,040 because that's where Al Haddad's brother 414 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,600 was meant to live and we thought that he might 415 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,440 or they might have gone and fled to stay with him. 416 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,600 We came and knocked on the door and got no reply 417 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,320 and by this time it was 1:30 in the morning, 418 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,080 the team had been working all day, 419 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,320 and I thought the best thing we could probably do was go home 420 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,480 and regroup in the morning. 421 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,160 And we're just by the police car here organising that 422 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,600 and a man came around the corner down there. 423 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,080 And one of the officers, , 424 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,840 who sort of said "That bloke there looks a bit like Al Haddad." 425 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,000 It was a bit of stretch really, a bit of a pun, 426 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,280 you know, of all the people walking around in Central London, 427 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,760 he went over to him and went, "Are you Ahmed Al Haddad," 428 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,880 and the man said, "No, I'm not, I'm his brother, 429 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,320 "but he is just behind me." 430 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,480 And there was our suspect walking around the corner 431 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,880 and it was quite remarkable because in an effort, 432 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,800 he said later, to disguise himself, he had dyed his hair, 433 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,120 but instead of going blonde, it had gone sort of orange, 434 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,720 so you had this man with sort of dark skin, 435 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,440 an Arab looking man with orange hair! 436 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,960 During the second interview, 437 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,640 he explained that when they went on the run from London, 438 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,840 they went out to Surrey, Englefield Green in Surrey 439 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,240 and his partner, Nimpha Ong 440 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,600 had said that he stands out in Surrey as an Asian man, 441 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,000 therefore he should change his appearance, 442 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,480 so she dyed his hair, at which point the solicitor said... 443 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,000 "Yeah, and that really worked, didn't it?" 444 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,600 He just stood out like a sore thumb more than anything else, 445 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,680 it would have done nothing. 446 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,200 That morning when I talked to my team for the very first time, 447 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,520 I said to them 448 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,320 that I wasn't necessarily sure 449 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,280 that I was any good at being an SIO, 450 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,040 but I did seem to be lucky 451 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,720 in the past. 452 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,560 And I think I demonstrated that to them straight away 453 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,280 on the first day because I went to talk to this man 454 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,880 and there was Al Haddad, 455 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,360 he came into view and it was quite bizarre. 456 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,600 My officers spoke to Al Haddad and he was pretty open 457 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,920 right from the start. 458 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,400 To the guys when I had him in the car, 459 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,640 he made admissions. 460 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,080 Unsolicited admissions, 461 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,160 rather than an interview, 462 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,480 they would have asked him a few questions 463 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,080 like, "Where have you been, what have you done," 464 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,120 you know, basic stuff. 465 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,200 But what he didn't do, 466 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,920 he didn't make any direct confession of being involved directly himself. 467 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,040 He was there, he was part of, but he blamed Nimpha Ong. 468 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,600 He was never going to be "No comment" 469 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,440 or tell lies or try and lie his way out of it. 470 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,640 He was quite open and said, "Yeah, we killed her 471 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,880 "and it was all my girlfriends idea," 472 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,200 and he said that "My girlfriend and I fled to a house 473 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,520 "of a friend of hers in Surrey, 474 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,400 "in a place called Englefield Green." 475 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,880 He was promptly put into one of our cars 476 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,240 and we rather than go home, 477 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,200 there was a convoy through the snow out 478 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,280 into to Surrey to Englefield Green 479 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:33,320 and we went to this sort of modern estate 480 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,400 and there was a small terraced house there, 481 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,320 where she had a friend who spent a lot of time working abroad, 482 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,000 he let her sort of house sit while he was away. 483 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,680 She thought that was the ideal place 484 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,600 to flee to after they had killed Bridie. 485 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,840 They were both then arrested at the Englefield Green address... 486 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,840 and separated and taken back to the police station. 487 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:58,960 Two suspects are taken 488 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,040 to different police stations... 489 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,320 as is the normal process 490 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,920 in that situation, keep them apart. 491 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,640 Al Haddad was interviewed over two days 492 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,040 at Richmond Police Station. 493 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,880 Myself and another DC did the interviews. 494 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:18,200 First interview was fairly concise, he did speak to some extent, 495 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,200 but it was very, very on edge, it wasn't detailed... 496 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,920 there was obviously lies 497 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,200 and lots of gaps in what had gone on. 498 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,960 Really from the very start, 499 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,320 both of them just did that effectively, 500 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,080 which is quite common when you get sort of two handed murders. 501 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,120 Each said it was the other's idea, the others responsibility 502 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,560 and, no, they hadn't had anything to do with it themselves, 503 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,360 but they'll tell you all about what their other half did. 504 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,280 After the first interview, he's obviously telling lies. 505 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,520 Whilst we're undergoing certain processes we have to do, 506 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,320 i.e., fingerprints, fingernail scrapings, 507 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,640 hair pulling, all of this kind of thing. 508 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,720 And we're talking to him 509 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,320 while he's kind of having a cigarette in the cage 510 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,800 out the back of the police station. 511 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,440 Now, there are procedures around that process. 512 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,480 Strictly speaking, are we interviewing him off tape? 513 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Are we... 514 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,600 All of these kinds of things, 515 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,960 but it's really about the police, us, 516 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,160 identifying someone 517 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,760 who should tell the truth and encouraging that, 518 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,880 and that's what went on in that little interim period. 519 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,520 And you can't put that over 520 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,000 because that is a behind the scenes 521 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,920 type effort 522 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,080 to get this man to tell the truth, it's not arms up his back, 523 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,520 it's not shouting in his face, it's none of that. 524 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,960 It is a "You need to tell the truth, 525 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,720 your brother is really destroyed by what's gone on here, 526 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,000 you've got a good family, what are you doing this for? 527 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,440 What's going on?" 528 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,080 And he cracked and that's not very often. 529 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,640 From then on, it was about him playing down his role in the murder 530 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,600 and pushing the main blame 531 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,320 if you like onto his partner, Nimpha Ong. 532 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,440 When we started speaking to both of them, 533 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,960 Al Haddad was reasonably open 534 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,160 and was telling us roughly what had happened. 535 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,800 But he was saying all the while that it was Nimpha Ong, 536 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,600 his older, more experienced, more cunning girlfriend 537 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,560 who had duped him into following along with her plans. 538 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,840 She was saying very little, she was sort of no commenting 539 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,080 and being pretty non-committal about anything that went on. 540 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,680 She was hard as nails, 541 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,120 point blank, face like steel, 542 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,760 unmovable, no remorse, nothing. 543 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,200 So, what we really had to do was to take the bones 544 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,680 of what Al Haddad had been telling us 545 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,400 and see if we could find evidence 546 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,320 that would corroborate the story he gave us 547 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280 because if that was the case then we could corroborate it, 548 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,960 we could probably prove that Nimpha Ong 549 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,680 was the driving force behind this murder. 550 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,720 He told us that Ong had been working 551 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,320 for estate agents in the locality 552 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,880 and the whole idea of the murder was not just that they were fed up 553 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,160 that Bridie had told them they had to leave 554 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,400 and they had nowhere to live but that Ong was convinced 555 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,120 that Bridie had the deeds to the flat somewhere in the flat. 556 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,920 And she thought if they could get their hands on them, 557 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,800 they could use them to procure some sort of loan 558 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,400 or some sort of financial advantage 559 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,760 and disappear into the sunset together with lots of money. 560 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,280 So, that kind of gave us the motive. 561 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,680 He told us some facts about how it had happened. 562 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,280 And essentially he said that 563 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:50,840 they had kind of jumped onto Bridie 564 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,280 while she was in the house, and this would have been Boxing Day, 565 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,760 and that they had... 566 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,600 asked her for the deeds for the house, 567 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,040 she told them to go away and to get out 568 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:07,640 and that Al Haddad had taken her walking stick 569 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,480 and beaten her with it and that was what had killed her. 570 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,960 And then they had the issue of sort of disposing of the body, 571 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,240 and they borrowed this large suitcase... 572 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,280 What that interview did was that enabled us in the police 573 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,280 to identify a number of items 574 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,440 that were really vital to the investigation 575 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,560 i.e., to contact the exhibits team at the property 576 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,360 to obtain the walking stick, the suitcase, 577 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,520 all for forensic examination. 578 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,640 So, I phoned Dave up saying, 579 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,880 "You need to get all the walking sticks 580 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,760 "in the property and bag them up, and the suitcase," 581 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,440 and that is a forensic leap forward. 582 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,360 We retrieved the walking stick, and now it was clear that 583 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,080 there was a bit of a scene inside the flat 584 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,480 where even though it had been tidied up, 585 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,640 you could kind of work out where it had taken place. 586 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,040 But we couldn't find the suitcase. 587 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,000 Ahmed Al Haddad told us that they'd come here, 588 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,080 he'd came with Nimpha Ong to friends in Penfold Street to a flat 589 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,560 and that's where they borrowed a large suitcase 590 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,200 in which they intended to dispose of Bridie's body. 591 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,320 So, we came here and spoke to those friends to see 592 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,960 if they could substantiate the story. 593 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,200 And not only did they corroborate it but they told us 594 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,440 that Al Haddad and Ong had come here on Boxing Day, 595 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,240 they had a little bit of a party, 596 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,320 and as people do with their friends at Christmas, 597 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,160 they'd been taking photographs. 598 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,800 So, before we left, 599 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,160 they gave us a roll of film and said on there, 600 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,880 there should be photos of our two suspects 601 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,200 there on Boxing Day. 602 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,720 When we had that film developed, it was quite ominous 603 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,680 because one of the shots 604 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,680 showed Al Haddad and Ong with this large suitcase, 605 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,320 a suitcase in which they tried to get rid of Bridie's body 606 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,280 and in which we found Bridie's blood. 607 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,680 They then phoned for a minicab... 608 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,840 Ong phoned and she specified 609 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,720 that they needed an estate car because they had a lot of luggage, 610 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,120 so they were going to move the body in the suitcase somewhere... 611 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,600 but Al Haddad said he didn't know where the intended destination was. 612 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,720 To try to kind of throw people off the scent I suppose, 613 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,720 instead of ordering for the minicab to come to Lanchester Court, 614 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,600 she asked for it to come to Connaught Square, 615 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,320 round the corner and the idea 616 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,120 was that they would take the suitcase around there 617 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,800 and wait for the minicab. 618 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:35,920 But there was a problem... 619 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,520 as you came out into the communal hall 620 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,120 from Bridie's flat, 621 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,360 there was a flight of steps that went upwards to the front door 622 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,760 and then you had to go down to the street. 623 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,280 They put her in the suitcase and they call a cab, 624 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,760 but they couldn't carry the suitcase if you imagine even a lady who is 93 625 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,760 and is quite frail is a dead weight 626 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,920 and it's a serious bit of weight in a suitcase. 627 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,960 And as they were trying to get it up this flight of carpeted steps, 628 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,840 Nimpha Ong realised that there were fluids, 629 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,960 blood leaking out of the corner of the suitcase. 630 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,520 And so they had to stop and re-assess their plans 631 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,600 because quite logically it wasn't gonna be a good idea 632 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,320 to take a suitcase leaking blood into a minicab 633 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,040 and trying to escape with it. 634 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,160 So, they took the suitcase back into the flat 635 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,200 and Ong thought about the shed outside 636 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,920 and thought that might be a place they could hide her. 637 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,280 And she sent Al Haddad round with the key and he came back 638 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,480 and said, "Yes, there is a box." 639 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,240 They couldn't carry it, so then plan B, 640 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,440 "We'll have to put her in a box, put her in the outhouse." 641 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:44,520 I think the hope 642 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,040 there was that they would make their getaway. 643 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,840 So, what they did was they took the suitcase with Bridie in it 644 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,960 around to the back... 645 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,960 and transferred her into the TV box that we'd found her in. 646 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,240 And then they went to clean up 647 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,680 and they did their best to clean up the steps with the carpet on, 648 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,040 cleaned up Bridie's flat and indeed cleaned up the suitcase 649 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,400 that they'd brought from their friends. 650 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,080 So, we had a really good sort if chain of evidence for this, 651 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,440 we've got the suitcase, 652 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,720 it's got Bridie's blood in it and in between times, 653 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,480 we know that Ong and Al Haddad had it 654 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,720 because we've got photographic evidence of them 655 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,800 standing there with the suitcase. 656 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,280 So, everything that we were being told 657 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,160 was standing up and was being corroborated, 658 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,880 so it was starting to be a good case. 659 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,960 Ahmed Al Haddad and Nimpha Ong stood trial 660 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,440 for the murder of Bridie Skehan here at the Inner London Crown Court. 661 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,200 The trial lasted for a couple of weeks 662 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,040 and throughout it, they blamed each other really. 663 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,160 Each said that it was 664 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,960 the other one's idea to kill Bridie 665 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,800 and that they could make some money out of it. 666 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,240 Well, during the trial, one of the things 667 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,640 that came out was this change during the interview 668 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,480 because it's not very often that that happens 669 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,720 and there was a defensive play, if you like, 670 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,480 a defensive council play on the fact 671 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,400 that how did Mr Al Haddad gone 672 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,960 from giving one story on one day 673 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,840 to a different story the second day, 674 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,880 but it was very well put by our council, 675 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,080 Brian Altman QC who explained that away 676 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,280 as saying "This is officers seeking the truth" 677 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,440 which is in effect, what we do, and that's exactly what happened. 678 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,880 As the evidence went on, 679 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,160 it was pretty clear that the major part in the partnership 680 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,520 was taken by Nimpha Ong, 681 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,960 she was some 20 years older than him 682 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,880 and she pulled all the strings and I think the court realised that, 683 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,080 although they were both found guilty of murder eventually, 684 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,080 the length of sentence recommendations given by the judge 685 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,560 really reflected that Ong, at 49, 686 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,120 was the bad influence on the young man, Al Haddad. 687 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,960 The trial went very well from the prosecution point of view, 688 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,560 everyone was gonna get found guilty. 689 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,560 The prosecuting council really took them apart to be fair, 690 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,920 Al Haddad in particular was still pleading 691 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,400 that he was just another young lad that fell under her spell, 692 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,960 she just was hard as nails 693 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560 and I think that was reflected in the sentencing in the end. 694 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,320 After the pair were convicted of murder, 695 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,200 the judge in sentencing them 696 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,680 remarked that this was a brutal murder 697 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,560 of a vulnerable victim for some sort of financial gain. 698 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,080 And his recommendations reflected the parts 699 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,240 that each had played in the murder. 700 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,160 Ong received a recommendation to serve for at least 17 years, 701 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:54,880 whereas Al Haddad who was very much led on by her, 702 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,000 the recommendation for him was only 10. 703 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,000 He's a murderer... 704 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,520 encouraged by Nimpha Ong, no doubt, 705 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,560 and that the whole process was engineered by Nimpha Ong 706 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,680 for financial gain, but... 707 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:19,880 it doesn't excuse what he did. 708 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,640 Ong was clearly the main driver within the scenario. 709 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,320 Al Haddad was accomplice, 710 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,640 but there must be a point within that 711 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,200 that he was a willing accomplice 712 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,920 and he still went along, 713 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,800 however you might want to try and excuse his actions 714 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,800 if anybody did, he still went along 715 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,400 with Ong's plan to get rid of Bridie, 716 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,960 get rid of her body and to try and steal 717 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,760 the deeds to her flat. 718 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,600 The sentencing was a real concern to us, 719 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,080 Al Haddad 10 years and Nimpha Ong 17 years. 720 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:56,640 We all felt that was far too low, 721 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:58,440 given what they had done to an elderly lady, 722 00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:59,920 a truly awful crime. 723 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,280 And I think that on reflection, 724 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:03,400 that's probably the worst part 725 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,040 was the sentencing of the whole case. 726 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,960 It's an appalling, financially motivated crime 727 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,520 and I think in this era, 728 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,280 where sentences are much harsher where there is a financial motive, 729 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,760 their tariff would have been double actually what they were back then. 730 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,360 She was just a lady 731 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,320 who didn't deserve to end her long life in that way. 732 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,920 She had let Nimpha Ong into her home, 733 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,400 you know, as a lodger, to provide her somewhere to live, 734 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,840 and because Ong and Al Haddad wouldn't live their lives 735 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,640 under her roof in the way that she wanted, 736 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,120 she'd asked them to leave, 737 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,480 but there wasn't any dramatic arguing about it. 738 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,800 She just said, "Look, that's not what I like going on under my roof, 739 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,880 "so we are gonna have to let you go as it were," 740 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,520 and as a result of that... 741 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,520 Ong formed this murderous plan, 742 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,440 this idea to threaten 743 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,760 and offer violence to this old lady to get some documents 744 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:08,840 that to be honest 745 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,920 she couldn't have done very much with anyway. 746 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,480 It was a plan that was always gonna fail 747 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,360 in terms of providing a financial gain 748 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:18,840 for her and Al Haddad 749 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,280 and yet Bridie lost her life for it 750 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,520 and she lost her life in her own home... 751 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,760 battered to death with her own walking stick 752 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,120 and then, you know, suffered the indignity 753 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,040 of being chucked in a cardboard box to rot really. 754 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,920 I suppose it was almost like a desecration of her body 755 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,440 after killing her to treat her in such a manner. 756 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,720 At that kind of age having had a blameless life, 757 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,560 loved by her friends... 758 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,480 by the people in her Catholic community, 759 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,960 to end up like that, it was obscene. 760 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,040 Poor woman, poor woman, 761 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,640 just the thought of that happening to somebody who is 93 is just awful. 762 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,800 Sadly for her, she picked two lodgers 763 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,120 which resulted in her demise, 764 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,280 which is a tragic end to somebody 765 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,880 who lived a real life, 766 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,560 I think, a real good life in London. 767 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,320 And I think the people concerned in her murder were truly awful. 768 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,600 It was a very good job in terms 769 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,440 of involving proper detective work... 770 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,480 in this era, it's very easy for us all 771 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,080 to assume that criminal detection 772 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,440 is something which is purely forensic based 773 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,400 using DNA techniques, fingerprints. 774 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,040 Perhaps there are less opportunities 775 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,160 for detectives to apply their trade 776 00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:50,560 perhaps in the way 777 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,440 that they were used to before forensic advances, 778 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,880 but this particular case was a good example of detectives 779 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,600 thinking on their feet when the opportunity arose 780 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,760 to move in on the case and in this instance, 781 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,320 it was in terms of finding the whereabouts, 782 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,520 sadly, of Bridie's body. 783 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,560 While like in this case, we were lucky 784 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,520 because there were circumstances 785 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,200 that got us over sort of humps and problems 786 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,520 in the evidence of the case that meant we could prove it. 787 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,360 And I guess that was kind of the sort of thing that I meant 788 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,160 when I said to the team 789 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:35,200 that I don't know if I'm any good at being an SIO, 790 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,520 but I'm certainly very lucky at it. 791 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,200 Colin always says he's a lucky detective 792 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,360 and perhaps he is. 793 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,600 To be fair to him, I think you make your own luck. 794 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,000 And I kind of recognised that in him, but lo and behold, 795 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,800 that particular day, on his first day... 796 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,280 we get the call, and we go out. 797 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,800 When they saw that key hook with no key on it, 798 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,160 that wasn't anything to do with luck, 799 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:02,480 that was to do with moving in on, solving the case, 800 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,320 breaking the case, finding her body. 801 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,360 And from that point onwards, once they knew it was murder, 802 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,040 they had her body. 803 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,640 Going backwards, looking at the suspects, 804 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,440 immediately moving in on the right suspects 805 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,920 and literally shaking the case like a ragdoll 806 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,280 to bring about the conclusion of justice. 807 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,680 Fundamentally, in the police, 808 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,240 we are ordinary people doing an extraordinary job. 809 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,160 When he came to the team, we were all strong and capable 810 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,080 and he didn't want to mess anything up 811 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,760 and he kept to that mantra, 812 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,560 and it's to his credit that he operates the way he does. 813 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:45,640 We call come to work 814 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,760 because we want to put really horrible people in prison, 815 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,160 that's our job, and he was exactly the same. 816 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,080 Looking back, 10 years on almost or 15 years on from that moment, 817 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,280 I wonder if that luck didn't kind of grow 818 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,640 and work in a slightly different way, 819 00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:06,120 and as well as being quite lucky 820 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,240 in terms of being able to find bits of evidence 821 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,320 and make cases, the sort of case, 822 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,320 the number of cases and the sort of high profile cases 823 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,320 that sort of fell into my lap somehow... 824 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,200 gave me the opportunity to do some work 825 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,600 that most people even in the world of senior investigating officers 826 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:29,880 don't get the chance to do. 827 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,360 And to look at, you know, very high profile... 828 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,320 public, important cases, and important cases 829 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,120 where arresting the suspect actually meant 830 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,880 that you saved other people from becoming his victims, 831 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,920 and that's kind of almost the most important work you can do. 68363

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