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In the criminal justice system
the people are represented
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00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,920
by two separate
yet equally important groups -
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00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,080
the police who investigate crime,
4
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,800
and the Crown prosecutors
who prosecute offenders.
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00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,840
These are their stories.
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00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,600
It's an oxymoron.
No, it's not.
7
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,320
Matty, what are you talking about?
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00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,240
Sausages are made from meat,
not soya.
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00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,520
They certainly ain't made
from vegetables.
10
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,720
Why should veggies be denied
the pleasure of a sausage roll?
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00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,560
And it is half the fat.
And half the taste.
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00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,600
I'm at the peak of my fitness.
13
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,040
Do not let
this cuddly exterior fool you.
14
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,680
Blimey! Who died?
15
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,400
My office...now.
16
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,520
He's in there.
17
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,560
How could anyone?
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00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,120
He's five, maybe six.
19
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,920
Looks like he's only been dead
a few hours.
20
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,720
Contusions round the...
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00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,000
Are you OK, Joy?
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00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,040
Take your time, love.
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00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,040
Contusions round the neck.
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00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,160
Petichiae round the eyes.
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00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,240
A bang to the back of the head.
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00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,600
There's curvilinear abrasions here
and here,
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suggesting strangulation.
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00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,760
And there's this.
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00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,240
Caused by
something sharp and pointed,
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00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,840
bigger than a pin or a needle,
though.
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00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,880
Looks like a letter R.
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00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,120
What's that on his lips?
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00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,600
There was a popping noise
when I moved him
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00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,640
to examine the head wound.
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00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,960
This was on the floor.
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00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,880
Someone's poured the whole lot
into his mouth.
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00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,920
Crackle Candy.
38
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,000
Just when you think
you've seen it all.
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00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,720
How can we have a body when
the kid hasn't even been missed?
40
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,160
Cos the parents probably did it.
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00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,840
Maybe they're at work.
It's half term.
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00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,600
Even the parents here with jobs
can't afford a child minder.
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00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,160
They haven't even noticed
he's missing.
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00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,840
Keep them as far away as possible.
45
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,840
There's CCTV all over this estate.
They must have caught something.
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00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,760
If you can find one that works.
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00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,040
I'll get Intel onto it.
Talk to the kids.
48
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,240
See if any of their mates
have gone AWOL.
49
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,880
Darren's in the park doing it
with Shania Chapman.
50
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,120
How old's Darren?
11.
51
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,080
11. Whatever happened
to a game of conkers?
52
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,120
What's conkers?
53
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,560
Conor. Conor.
54
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,280
Conor.
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00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:27,160
What's happening here?
You all right, son. What's up?
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00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,480
My brother Conor was supposed
to meet me hours ago.
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00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,280
How old's your brother?
Six.
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00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:36,160
When did you last see him?
This morning.
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00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,040
I saw him.
He was playing over there.
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00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,960
Then this smelly man
come and took him.
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00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,760
Baseball cap,
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00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,800
with like a beard.
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00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,360
And wearing a leather jacket.
That's what you said.
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00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,400
And you saw him with Conor?
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00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,080
He smelled like petrol.
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00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,120
Right.
Devlin.
67
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,200
You were so close
you could smell him?
68
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,440
He walked past her, didn't he?
69
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,520
When he walked past you,
was Conor with him then? No.
70
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,840
He went in with Conor,
but he come out on his own. OK.
71
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,560
They just picked up Conor's mum
from work.
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00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,920
She's on her way to the mortuary.
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00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,520
I was late for work.
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00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,280
I didn't kiss him goodbye.
75
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,200
I'm very sorry, but we're going
to need to ask you some questions.
76
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,480
Do you think he was really scared?
77
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,560
You've had some contact with
Social Services over the kids?
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00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,720
My ex hit Liam once.
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00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,080
When I found out I packed his bags.
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00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,440
So there wasn't an adult
you could leave him with?
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00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,920
You think I could afford
a supernanny?
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00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,960
I work 12 hours a day to keep a roof
over our heads.
83
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,920
I can't give up
cos it's the school holidays.
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00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,280
So Liam looks after Conor
while you're at work? Yeah.
85
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,080
Liam and the girls.
86
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,760
That's Paige Ward?
Paige and her mate.
87
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,280
Always coming round
asking if they can babysit.
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00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,840
Conor loved them.
89
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,760
Can I get Buddy back?
90
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,880
That's his toy dog.
He took him everywhere.
91
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,760
Of course. We need to keep him
a bit longer,
92
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,200
but we'll let you have him back
as soon as we can. I promise.
93
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,640
Julie, have you ever seen this man
around the estate?
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00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,040
We think he's a mechanic.
95
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,800
Yeah. He looks like my neighbour's
boyfriend - Rob something.
96
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,960
No. He works at the garage
on Cold Harbour Lane.
97
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,920
You think it was him?
98
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,320
Maybe you should call your brief.
99
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,320
I don't need one cos I know nothing
about no little boy.
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00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,560
I'm a red-blooded bloke. Look under
my mattress if you don't believe me.
101
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,800
A witness saw you take him
into the flats.
102
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,360
Only, you came out alone
and he ended up dead.
103
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,120
The boy lived in the flat
next door to your girlfriend.
104
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,640
A witness spotted you abduct him.
They need their eyes testing.
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00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,120
I banged on my missus' door
for ten minutes.
106
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,280
Then I went back to work.
Did anyone see you leave?
107
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,320
I don't know, do I?
108
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,600
There was a girl. There was a girl.
109
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,040
She must have been about twelve-ish.
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00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,760
That's it?
Yeah.
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00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,360
She had like fair hair.
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00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,880
She was a skinny thing.
113
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,400
And an Arsenal shirt.
114
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,360
And this was at Lexden House?
Right by the door,
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00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,320
like she was waiting
for someone to come out.
116
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,880
Here's the problem, Paige.
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00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720
You say you saw the man at
the empty flats they're pulling
down.
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00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,760
He went inside with Conor.
119
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,000
I don't like her playing
near them flats.
120
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,200
We think you saw the man
at Lexden House where Conor lived.
121
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,720
No. Are you sure
it wasn't Lexden House?
122
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,080
It was Peldon. I ain't lying, Mum.
123
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,840
Paige don't tell lies.
She's a good girl.
124
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,400
You've never been to Lexden House
at any time? No.
125
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,040
Are you sure about that?
I said, didn't I? I told you.
126
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,440
Why's he picking on me?
We just need you to help us out.
127
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,440
Yeah. Would you like a drink?
Want a cup of tea, Matty?
128
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,200
Mrs Ward, would you like
a cup of tea?
129
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,880
Cheers. Two sugars.
OK.
130
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,440
I chewed my nails when I was a kid.
131
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,640
Especially if I was nervous.
132
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,800
We had a teacher who'd bang his hand
on the table when he saw me do it.
133
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,480
Of course,
that only made me do it even more.
134
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,480
You chew your nails
cos you're nervous, don't you?
135
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,040
The thing is, Paige,
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00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,600
we've spoken to the man
that you saw with Conor.
137
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,200
He says you saw him at Lexden House
where Conor lived.
138
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,520
He was by Peldon.
And you're absolutely certain?
139
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:16,040
Cross my heart. I won't be angry
if you've made a mistake. We all do.
140
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,600
If you don't believe her,
you can ask her mate.
141
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,640
Joined at the hip them two.
142
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,320
Someone else saw what happened?
143
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,800
Rose. She was with me
the whole time.
144
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,960
Who is it?
Police.
145
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,000
Open up, please.
146
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,040
Got a warrant?
147
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,040
Is your mum there, Rose?
She's busy.
148
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,560
We just need you to open the door.
149
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,160
I'm only supposed to open the door
if she screams.
150
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,280
Thank you.
151
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,160
I don't do threesomes.
Your mate will have to wait.
152
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,920
Actually, we would like
to talk to Rose
153
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,680
about the boy who died
in the empty flats.
154
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,000
Rose don't know nothing about it.
155
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,560
Well, we think
she could be a witness.
156
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,560
So we'd like you both to come
to the station for a video ID.
157
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,920
Both girls picked out Denton
from the video ID.
158
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,760
We have enough to charge him.
159
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,080
And Denton identified Paige
outside the dead boy's flat.
160
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,320
Or he saw her at the murder scene.
Denton has no previous with kids.
161
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,520
The cause of death
was by manual strangulation.
162
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,560
No signs of sexual assault.
163
00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:03,680
He's been flying under the radar.
The girls saw him.
164
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,760
I still think Paige is lying.
Because she chews her nails?
165
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,680
It's just a feeling.
We can talk to her again.
166
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,720
If the girls saw Denton take
the kid, someone else must have.
167
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,440
Someone did.
168
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,000
There's something you need to see.
169
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,480
This is Denton outside
his girlfriend's flat.
170
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,680
At 9:31 he heads
towards the car park.
171
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,320
Then at 9:35...
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00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,800
Another camera picks them up
heading towards Peldon House.
173
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,880
Please, God, tell me
this isn't what I think it is.
174
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,120
Look at her. Face of an angel.
175
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,520
Paige seems to trust you.
176
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,760
You take Rose, but I want a CPS
member watching the interviews.
177
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,840
I want both girls arrested
and cautioned before they speak.
178
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,360
You understand that you can have
a solicitor here if you want one?
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00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,920
We don't need one. She ain't done
nothing wrong, have you? No.
180
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,960
OK.
181
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,720
I want to talk about what happened
to little Conor.
182
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,400
'You went out to play with
your friend Paige. Is that right?'
183
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,680
'Yeah. We played football.'
'OK.'
184
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,360
Do you know Conor -
You know she does.
185
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,080
Miss Shaw, I need Rose to answer.
Come on, then.
186
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,800
Rose, did you go to Conor's flat
the morning he died?
187
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,560
Yeah. Liam left him alone.
188
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:53,040
So you and Paige
took him out to play?
189
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,560
It ain't nice being left alone.
Will this take much longer?
190
00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,560
Is there somewhere you need to be?
I can get a social worker.
191
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:04,600
You don't know me.
Just get on with it, yeah?
192
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,160
Where did you take Conor to play?
193
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,200
By Peldon House.
194
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,680
But then this man come
and took Conor inside.
195
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,720
You know that's where we found
Conor, Peldon House?
196
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,480
Did he just lay down and die?
197
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,120
I think you know how he died, Rose.
198
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,440
I don't think there was
any man there at all.
199
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,480
Yes, there was a man.
Look, the man took him.
200
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,520
Ask him what happened to Conor.
201
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,320
I don't think you're telling me
the truth. Yes, I am!
202
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,360
You can call that social worker.
Mum, you can't leave me.
203
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,160
Just listen to what he says.
You say, "No comment."
204
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,600
I want to go home with my mum.
Stay there.
205
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,440
I used to sit in these rooms
just as twitchy as you. Calm down.
206
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,800
Kelly, listen to me.
207
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,960
I was worrying about
when I'd get my next drink.
208
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,720
Mum!
Shut up!
209
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,360
Kelly! Today could be the first day
you don't use. You do have a choice.
210
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,400
Your habit or your daughter.
211
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,920
Mum. Mum! Mum! Mum, please!
212
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,080
So you like Arsenal?
213
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,000
They're the best. It's OK to support
them if you're from South London
214
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,680
cos really they're from Woolwich.
They moved north in the past.
215
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,600
That's right. And you have number
11 on your shirt. Van Persie?
216
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,440
Rachel Yankey done this talk
at our school. Arsenal Ladies.
217
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,760
It's all she goes on about.
218
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,120
Maybe one day
you'll be the next Yankey.
219
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,680
I'll never be as good as her.
I played a bit as a kid.
220
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,160
We had a scout from Arsenal
come round our school.
221
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,040
Only, I was so nervous
about not being picked
222
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,960
I pulled a sickie.
So you didn't even try?
223
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,680
I wanted to, but the truth is
I was too scared of messing up.
224
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,000
I've never told anyone that before.
I feel better now I've told you.
225
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,040
You know when you try
and keep a secret,
226
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,760
and you wanna tell,
it sort of hurts to keep it inside.
227
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,760
If you share it with a friend,
it feels better.
228
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,000
You see, Paige,
I think you have a secret
229
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,520
about what happened to little Conor.
230
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,320
And we're friends, aren't we?
231
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,600
Let me share your secret.
232
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,400
Make it stop hurting.
233
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,440
Mum.
234
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,760
She's so close I can smell it.
235
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,920
When my girls were little,
I took them to the fair one Sunday.
236
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,840
We were queuing up. I was paying
for them to go on this ride.
237
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,760
A typical Sunday dad,
over-compensating.
238
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,520
I've got toys and prizes I'd won.
239
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,320
Pop corn. Candy floss.
All that stuff.
240
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,920
I turned round,
and the little un' had gone.
241
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,560
Just disappeared,
and the place was mobbed.
242
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,800
That is
really, truly frightening to me.
243
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,600
Do you know where she was?
244
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,640
And me a copper, an' all!
245
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,880
She'd sneaked
into the stall next door,
246
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,160
and was trying to nick a goldfish.
247
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,800
I tell you, kids, mate!
248
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,200
It's frightening.
249
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,160
We should get back in there.
250
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,200
Yeah.
251
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,360
Just give us a minute.
252
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,920
Tell me it ain't true
you got them girls in there.
253
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,840
They wouldn't hurt my Conor.
They wouldn't!
254
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,720
We're just talking to them
at the moment.
255
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,760
But they're just kids.
Tell me they didn't do it!
256
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,800
Please, I need it.
257
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,240
That's you, isn't it, Paige?
258
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,200
Number 11, like Rachel Yankey.
259
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,640
And that's Rose, isn't it?
260
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,720
And that's Conor.
261
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,320
You see, there's cameras
all over the estate.
262
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,640
They take pictures
of people walking about,
263
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,240
going in and out of the blocks.
264
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,480
This picture was taken about
20 minutes before Conor died.
265
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,040
There's other pictures
that show the man you picked out
266
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,160
leaving the estate
before Conor died.
267
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:29,720
Do you think mum realises
just how serious this is?
268
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,000
Who wants to believe their kid's
involved with something like this?
269
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,520
The poor woman's in shock.
270
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,000
I would be if that was
one of my girls sat there.
271
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,880
Maybe we should get Matt to ask
again if they want a brief.
272
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320
She's gonna spill any second.
273
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,280
You know I love you, babe,
no matter what you done.
274
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,960
You have to tell
the policeman the truth.
275
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,640
Who went into Peldon House
with Conor?
276
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680
Just me and Rose.
277
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,520
And little Conor. We took him.
278
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,560
And did someone hurt Conor?
279
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,400
He was crying.
280
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,440
He wanted his mum.
281
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,760
And Rose put her hands
around his neck.
282
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,760
He tried to get her off,
283
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,320
but he fell back and banged his head
against the wall.
284
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,120
It's OK, baby. It's OK.
285
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520
What happened next, Paige?
She got on top of him.
286
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,800
'Started squeezing his neck again.
287
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,240
When she got off he just lay there.'
288
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640
And then she got out this compass,
289
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,680
like we use in Maths,
290
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,720
and told me to scratch my name
on his tummy.
291
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,040
And you did it?
292
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,960
I only did the P.
293
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,400
I couldn't do the rest.
294
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,560
Then she took it off me,
295
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,240
and done another line
to make it an R for Rose.
296
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,280
Can we go home now?
297
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,560
'Police have arrested
two girls aged 10 and 13
298
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,320
on suspicion of the murder
of five-year-old Conor Reid.
299
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,200
Conor was found dead
at the Kelvedon Estate last week.
300
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,080
It's believed the girls were moved
to a secret location last night
301
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,800
after the police station came under
siege from angry protestors.'
302
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,360
This is getting out of hand,
and we haven't even charged them.
303
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:49,440
Little girl killers -
the public can't stomach it.
304
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,480
It's understandable.
305
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,320
Kids killing kids.
306
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,640
This is as bad as it gets.
307
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,600
What are the girls saying?
308
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,760
They blame each other.
What about the forensics?
309
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,240
The girls were tested too late
for contact trace evidence.
310
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,400
We're waiting on the analysis
of their clothing.
311
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,680
Till then there's no way to know
who is telling the truth?
312
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,640
The police believe
Paige is telling the truth,
313
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,680
that Rose is the killer.
She cooperated fully.
314
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,360
She'll give evidence
against Rose in court.
315
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,320
What does her brief want in return?
A Section 73 agreement.
316
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,600
Paige has given a statement
317
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,040
detailing exactly how Rose Shaw
killed Conor Reid.
318
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,840
She's a witness, nothing more.
319
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,320
Your client carved her initial
into the dead boy's skin.
320
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,360
She colluded with her friend
to concoct a story.
321
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,560
Under duress from Rose Shaw.
Come on, Luke!
322
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,080
Rose is three years younger
than your client.
323
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,520
And bright as a button.
Paige has learning difficulties.
324
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,880
The police believe Rose Shaw
acted alone. A jury will, too.
325
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,080
Paige pleads guilty
to assisting an offender.
326
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,640
She's practically handing you
Rose Shaw with bells on.
327
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,280
The least you can do
is drop the charges.
328
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,720
That's the deal.
Take it or leave it.
329
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,360
We sign that agreement,
there's no going back.
330
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:25,640
Paige gets immunity except
on assisting an offender.
331
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,880
OK. Get the papers signed.
332
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,720
But we charge Rose with murder.
333
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,760
Who's her brief?
334
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,240
You so don't want to know.
335
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,040
Come on. How bad can it be?
336
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,960
There he is, Balls of Steel.
337
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,080
Kim.
You don't call. You don't write.
338
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,800
You didn't seriously expect
any deals?
339
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,520
You did get my email? Don't tell me
it's still floating in cyberspace.
340
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,000
I told our new clerk when we need
to disclose something to the Crown
341
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,040
now means now.
What are you disclosing?
342
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,720
I've brought you a spare copy
just in case.
343
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000
Deep breaths.
344
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,360
Rose Shaw is ten years old.
345
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,000
She played no part
in this horrific crime,
346
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,840
and is devastated to learn
her best friend says otherwise.
347
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,200
I ask you to release this poor child
into her mother's care.
348
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,480
Miss Sharkey, much as it irks me
to have to consider
349
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,760
locking up a ten-year-old,
Paige Ward has your client
350
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,520
choking a boy to death
with her bare hands.
351
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,560
I simply cannot ignore
such a statement.
352
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,440
Indeed you cannot, My Lord,
were said statement taken legally.
353
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,080
However... I suggest
that is not the case,
354
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,680
and hereby apply to have
Paige Ward's interview excluded.
355
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,560
I request an immediate adjournment.
The Crown have not been informed
of any such application.
356
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,240
And yet Miss Phillips
appears to have a copy
right there in front of her.
357
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,280
Because you handed it over
five minutes ago.
358
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,440
Either it was disclosed
or it was not, Mr Steel.
359
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Continue, Ms Sharkey.
360
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,120
At her interview, Paige was not
accompanied by a solicitor
361
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,280
or an appropriate adult.
362
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,720
She was accompanied by her mother
who refused legal representation.
363
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,960
A woman with
an IQ below a 12-year-old's.
364
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,440
Unlike their morals,
which my colleague shares.
365
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,320
Miss Sharkey, Mr Steel,
my chambers now, please.
366
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,200
After meeting Paige's mother
I had her IQ tested.
367
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,080
We also found she has learning
difficulties and mild autism.
368
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760
There wasn't time
to second-guess her IQ.
369
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,680
The police had act quickly
to gather evidence.
370
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,240
They coerced a 13-year old girl into
saying what they wanted to hear.
371
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,800
They bribed her with a meal,
and chatted about her hobbies.
372
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480
The officer was creating
a bond of trust.
373
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840
They assumed the mother would
intervene if she was unhappy.
374
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,840
She wouldn't have intervened if
DS Devlin had danced the fandango.
375
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,240
The only one making
a song and dance is you.
376
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,480
What have you got for your finale -
Enough!
377
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,120
The whole point
of an appropriate adult
378
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,640
is to safeguard the rights and
welfare of young people in custody.
379
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,560
I intend to play this one
with a straight bat.
380
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,560
I'm granting
Ms Sharkey's application
381
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,600
to exclude the statement.
382
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280
That statement
put Rose's hands round Conor's neck.
383
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840
The Section 73 based on it,
now we can't even use it!
384
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,880
You must have realised Tina Ward
wasn't an appropriate adult.
385
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,920
Do I look like Derren Brown?
386
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,680
She came across
like half the adults we meet.
387
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,120
We don't deal with Mensa candidates.
388
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,360
Any other judge would have thrown
Sharkey out of court.
Blame Justice Pedotti.
389
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,680
Do we have a case
without that statement?
390
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,160
Please tell me forensics
will confirm Rose's guilt.
391
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720
Without a doubt. Conor's DNA will
be all over Rose Shaw's clothing.
392
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,200
Let's get this over with, then.
393
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,080
We represent Conor,
which means we represent you.
394
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,720
We're certain the forensic analysis
of the girl's clothing
395
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,600
will give us the evidence we need
to put Rose behind bars
for a long time.
396
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,640
She'll go to prison?
397
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,520
Initially she'll remain
in secure local authority care.
398
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,520
When she's old enough she'll go
to a young offenders' institution.
399
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,560
Then an adult prison.
400
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,160
Her whole childhood. She won't be
released until her early 20s.
401
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,000
I saw this woman
on the news last night.
402
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,840
She said Rose Shaw was Satan reborn,
403
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,080
that they should bring back hanging
just for her.
404
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,200
I've never heard so much hate
in someone's voice.
405
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,680
Public feeling is very strong.
406
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,320
All these flowers on the estate,
407
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,760
sack loads of cards every day
like they all knew him.
408
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,880
All of them out there
feeding off my boy's death.
409
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,640
Then it takes over their lives.
410
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,560
It's like they need it.
411
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120
The funny thing is all I want...
412
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,920
..all I need is to let it go.
413
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240
The trial can help you do that.
414
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,360
Sending her to prison won't help me.
415
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,720
It won't bring my boy back.
416
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,920
Most victims' families find
it gives them a sense of closure.
417
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120
Closure? This ain't closure.
418
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,600
This is revenge.
419
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,040
No, that little girl
don't deserve it.
420
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,880
She's been through enough.
421
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,720
We live on the same estate.
I know what goes on in there.
422
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,480
She broke the law
in the most terrible way.
423
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,520
She's a child.
424
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,600
Want to hide her behind a ten-foot
wall so no-one has to look at her?
425
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,480
No-one has to ask her who's really
responsible for Conor's death?
426
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,520
No.
427
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,200
No, no. It's too easy.
428
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,320
Prosecuting kids is never easy.
429
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160
My Conor, he used to...
430
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,640
he liked to draw them pictures,
431
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,960
the ones where you put
the paint through straws.
432
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480
He loved dogs.
433
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,240
That's how I wanna remember him.
434
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,920
My happy little boy.
435
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,800
I don't want
my memories clouded by hate.
436
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,800
Would you want your son brought up
in a world with no hope?
437
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,720
You can't save Conor.
438
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,760
But you can save her.
439
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Yeah, you can give
Rosie Shaw a life.
440
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,040
You can forgive her?
441
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,920
I hate what she did
442
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,720
with every bone in my body, but...
443
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,960
..but I'm a mum.
444
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,080
I can't hate a child.
445
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,480
You say you represent me,
446
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,120
then this is what you do.
447
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,040
You make Conor's life
mean something.
448
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,040
You find out why she did it,
and you get that little girl help.
449
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,760
We have to help her.
450
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,080
We can't just drop a murder charge.
451
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,280
The DPP will have your balls
and mine. Not just the DPP.
452
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,360
The Attorney General
wants Rose convicted of murder.
453
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,960
So that's it. Our hands are tied.
454
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,880
Not on my watch.
455
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,920
You heard what Mrs Reid wants.
456
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,560
What do we do?
457
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,720
My granddaughter is the same age.
458
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880
She spends her time riding ponies
and making daisy chains.
459
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600
I want to know
what makes a girl of ten
460
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,960
put her hands round a child's neck,
461
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,240
and squeeze the life out of him.
462
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,760
Rose, did you worry what your mum
was doing with these men?
463
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,520
My mum says that psychiatrists
mess up your brain waves.
464
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,320
Is that what you're gonna do to me?
465
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,800
Dr Marsh believes
the abuse changed the physiology
of Rose's nervous system,
466
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,840
which means her responsibility
was diminished at the killing.
467
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,800
We offer Sharkey a deal, then,
468
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,600
get Rose the help she needs.
469
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,440
The police just called.
Forensics are in.
470
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Are you sure?
Forensics don't lie. Kids do.
471
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,360
But everyone was so certain.
472
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,200
There are 148 microscopic spots
of blood on the front of her shirt.
473
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,040
Which means that when the boy died,
474
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,480
the one with her hands
around his throat was Paige Ward.
475
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,680
We have a Section 73
signed and sealed.
476
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,520
You can't charge Paige
with anything further in this case.
477
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Your client had Conor's blood
all over her shirt.
478
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440
Which means
that when Conor Reid died
479
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,000
the person in contact with him
was indeed Paige,
480
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,440
and not Rose Shaw.
481
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,480
It isn't true. It was Rose.
482
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920
Must I remind you again, gentlemen,
483
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,680
my client isn't here
to be interrogated.
484
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,920
Paige, you trust me, don't you?
485
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,200
I need you to tell me the truth.
486
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,240
We can walk out of here right now.
487
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,440
It's not what you think.
You don't have to say another word.
488
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,880
I want to explain.
After she done it, Rose just left.
489
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,360
I picked Conor up,
490
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,760
but he made this noise,
like a cough sort of.
491
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,320
Why did you move him? I wanted
to take him home to his mum.
492
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,600
But then Rose come back
with the compass.
493
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,160
I swear I didn't hurt Conor.
494
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,240
I put the toys there
in case he got lonely.
495
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,880
The pathologist
has re-examined Conor's body.
496
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,200
He found pulmonary
interstitial emphysema -
497
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,760
a build up of pressure
in Conor's lungs
498
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,600
caused by blood
blocking the airways.
499
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,040
It could have been released
when Paige lifted him up
500
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,000
or when she was choking him.
501
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,080
So much for forensics proving
which one did it.
502
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,240
Sharkey will have a field day
with this.
503
00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:25,160
Maybe not.
504
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,360
According to the forensic report,
505
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,560
there were seven curvilinear
abrasions on Conor's neck.
506
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,760
Three at the front
were made by Conor trying to prise
his attacker's hands off.
507
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,480
Four at the back made by
his attacker choking him.
508
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,920
The report said
without finding Conor's skin
509
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,960
in the fingernail scrapings
510
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,400
there was no way to know
which girl made them.
511
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,400
But Paige's fingernails
are bitten to the quick.
512
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,520
The nail marks
on the back of Conor's neck.
513
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,040
Rose Shaw has a defect on the nail
of her left forefinger.
514
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,160
The same defect
can be seen in those marks.
515
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,560
148 spots of blood on a shirt
spell murder to a jury.
516
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,360
Four nail marks
spell a bit of rough play.
517
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,920
You should give juries
more credit, Kim.
518
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,760
Lucky for you we don't intend
to put this to a jury.
519
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,560
A deal?
I'll accept a manslaughter plea
520
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,600
due to diminished responsibility.
521
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,560
Rose gets a hospital order
with a Section 41 restriction.
522
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,920
You want to put her in hospital?
523
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,160
Don't you? Rose needs treatment.
524
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Thanks, but no thanks.
525
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,360
I'm giving your client
a way out of a murder charge.
526
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,240
It's in Rose's best interests
to have someone try and fix her.
527
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:40,680
The child's a monster.
I doubt anyone could fix her.
528
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,760
You're only offering a deal
because you're worried I'll win.
529
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,760
Forget Rose. You just don't want
to give up your 15 minutes.
530
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,480
Cases like this come along
once in a lifetime.
531
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,040
They're career makers.
This isn't a short cut to silk!
532
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,800
It's a child's life.
Do calm down, James,
533
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,720
or you'll be comparing ulcers
with George.
534
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,960
The jury are going to see
a very pretty little girl
535
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
and hear how the Crown made a deal
with a teenager
536
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,200
who had the victim's blood
all over her shirt.
537
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,320
I know who I'd believe.
538
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160
She's a killer.
539
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,440
When the jury see photographs
of a strangled five-year-old,
540
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,720
they'll want her in a prison cell.
541
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:30,840
The prison system can't provide
the treatment this girl needs.
542
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,120
Why the preoccupation
about treatment?
543
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,000
The public don't care about
treating killers. They ought to.
544
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,680
If we send her to hospital,
she will be released
545
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,760
only if and when
she's no longer a danger.
546
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,840
Justice Pedotti will make sure
she gets a minimum of 12 years.
547
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,560
There's no votes in being soft
on children who commit crimes.
548
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,560
I don't decide on the basis of what
gets the Home Secretary most votes.
549
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,960
Lock her away,
and you might as well kill her.
550
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,920
I'm not asking. As Director
of Public Prosecutions, I'm telling.
551
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,080
You try that girl for murder...
552
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,120
and you make sure she's convicted.
553
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,640
That woman was put on this earth
just to irritate my duodenum.
554
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,880
Whatever it takes,
you guarantee that that jury find
555
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,760
on manslaughter,
diminished responsibility,
556
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,400
and not murder. I want that girl
in a hospital, not a prison.
557
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,640
What about the DPP?
Screw the DPP?
558
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,880
I answer to Conor's mother
on this one.
559
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,400
Dr Guinott talks about kids being
like white cement.
560
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,240
Whatever falls on them
makes an impression.
561
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,680
In Rose's case,
her abusive upbringing
562
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,040
means she has a callous
lack of concern for others.
563
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,080
So she lashes out.
564
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,520
Is she in control of her actions?
565
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,640
I don't believe at the time of
the killing she intended to kill
566
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,080
or understood
the permanency of death.
567
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,440
Can her condition be treated?
It must be treated.
568
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,960
Rose needs intensive psychotherapy
569
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,200
and pharmaceutical treatment.
Thank you.
570
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,640
No further questions.
571
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,920
Did you examine Paige Ward?
572
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,080
No. Because the Crown
didn't ask you to.
573
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:24,600
That's right. Yet Rose told you
repeatedly Paige killed Conor.
574
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,640
Yes, but denial -
575
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,600
How are we to know
what Paige Ward's mental state was
576
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,560
when Conor's blood splashed all over
the front of her shirt
577
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,480
or when she carved her initial
into his stomach?
578
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,320
Does my learned friend assume
the witness has psychic powers?
579
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,560
How else could he answer
such questions?
580
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,600
Please reserve questions regarding
blood evidence
581
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,320
for the appropriate expert witness.
Apologies. No further questions.
582
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,280
"Evil from the day she was born."
583
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,800
How can a mother say that
about her own child?
584
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,280
Trial by tabloid,
just what we needed.
585
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,320
The trial's not even over
586
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,880
and she has the public baying
for her daughter's blood!
587
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,400
Along with the jury.
588
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,760
Any chance of them believing
her diminished responsibility,
her mum just blew it.
589
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,200
Find a way to make
that jury see what we see.
590
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,400
I'm sorry. I don't know
what else we can do.
591
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,560
Make them see Conor Reid
is not the only victim.
592
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,560
Rose Shaw is an abused child.
She's a victim, too.
593
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,200
No comment.
594
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,360
Reporting restrictions exist
to protect your daughter.
595
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,080
You don't care about her welfare.
596
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,200
I don't know what you mean.
Thanks to your snivelling
to the tabloids,
597
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,360
the whole country have already made
up their minds about her.
598
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,520
You shouldn't be talking to her.
599
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,960
Why not? She isn't a witness.
She should be.
600
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,720
If the jury saw her true colours,
they'd lock her up, not Rose.
601
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,920
So let's call her.
602
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,080
Can you tell the court
how you make your living?
603
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,960
I ain't on trial here.
604
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,040
Can you answer the question, please?
605
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,880
I'm a masseur. You're a prostitute,
are you not?
606
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,120
We don't all have parents
to fund us through university.
607
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,720
Is Rose aware of what you do?
608
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,320
When the police came
to talk to Rose,
609
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,560
you were engaged in a sex act
while she was in the next room.
610
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,840
Plenty of mums
work from home these days.
611
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,440
Rose told Dr Marsh
she'd seen her mother working.
612
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,720
Doctors twist things. She'd also
seen sadistic pornographic films
613
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,400
which you watched with clients.
They turn her into a killer?
614
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,480
Did one DVD show a man passing out
having been manually asphyxiated
615
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,120
during sex, and another showed a man
taking pleasure in being cut?
616
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,720
You can't prove she saw them.
Can you prove she didn't?
617
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,000
I done my best for her.
Were you doing your best for Rose
618
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,280
when you tried to give her to
a stranger when she was six weeks?
619
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,160
I was 16. It weren't easy
stuck on your own with a kid.
620
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,640
What about when you sold her cot
to fund your crystal meth habit?
621
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,040
I had a problem then. I owed money.
Rose don't go without now.
622
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,560
Because you work as a prostitute
in a room next door to hers?
623
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,280
She don't see nothing.
She doesn't hear it?
624
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,880
She doesn't deal with the fallout?
625
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,720
Like the time you were beaten
senseless by a client?
626
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,080
That only happened once.
How would you have protected Rose
627
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,360
if this client had decided
to turn his attentions to her?
628
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,040
He didn't.
Can you be sure of that?
629
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
You were unconscious
for quite some time.
630
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,440
It wasn't until your next client
turned up six hours later
631
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,800
that an ambulance was called.
Rose was OK.
632
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,120
Rose was four.
She thought you were dead.
633
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,560
But you don't really care
what happens to her. Not true.
634
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,560
You don't care that she's choking
a five-year-old boy so long as it
doesn't interfere with your habit.
635
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,520
You're making out I'm a bad mum.
636
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,200
I am shouting it loud and clear.
You are a terrible mum.
637
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,200
You haven't got the first idea
how to take care of your own child.
638
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,240
I didn't kill that kid.
You might as well have done.
639
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:15,200
You turned her into exactly
what she is, did you not?
640
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,760
No further questions, My Lord.
641
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,680
On the charge of murder,
how do you find?
642
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,560
Guilty.
643
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,760
Rose Shaw,
644
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,680
you have been found guilty
of murder.
645
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,320
You alone are responsible
for the death
646
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,680
of a defenceless five-year-old boy.
647
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:16,760
What you did to that child is
every parent's worst nightmare.
648
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,880
I've heard all I need
regarding your state of mind
649
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,560
and the circumstances
of your background,
650
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,640
and see no need to wait for
further reports before sentencing.
651
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,520
I hereby sentence you to be detained
at Her Majesty's pleasure
652
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,920
with a minimum term of 12 years.
653
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:47,960
Rose!
654
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,800
Mum! Mum, please!
655
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,960
Will she serve the whole 12 years?
656
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,760
I don't know.
657
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,440
Dr Marsh has agreed to work with her
in the secure unit
658
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,680
and when she's 15,
659
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,640
rest assured, I will personally
appeal against her move to prison.
660
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,160
Connor used to sleep in my bed.
661
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Never could settle him into a cot.
662
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,040
In my arms, he'd sleep ten hours
straight.
663
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,760
I used to watch him half the night
thinking how lucky I was.
664
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,760
Bet no-one ever looked at Rose
and felt lucky.
665
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,760
Thanks.
56348
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