All language subtitles for Crime Beat_ Karissa Boudreau, up with the angels _ S2 E5 (1080p_30fps_H264-128kbit_AAC)

GOOD EVENING, I'M ANTONY  ROBART. THIS IS CRIME BEAT.

TONIGHT: A mother makes a

desperate public plea to her missing daughter. Penny: We just want you home safe. Please.

A father develops his own suspicions. Paul: Things never made sense to me from day one.

And the undercover operation that cracks the case John: When we saw it go down,

there were tears in our eyes.

AND NOW HERE S CRIME BEAT REPORTER ROSS LORD  WITH KARISSA BOUDREAU: UP WITH THE ANGELS.

The Lahave River winds its way inland  from the North Atlantic. Along its banks,

at the point where the river begins to narrow,  the town of Bridgewater, Nova Scotia About an

hour s drive south of Halifax...and farther  south along the coast -- the town of Shelburne.

Home to Paul Boudreau... father of Karissa. Paul: You know my mother always told me, you could

always turn a negative situation into a positive  thing. Well, she was the same way. She she liked

to laugh, she liked to play. She liked to hop,  skip and, you know, sing while she was running

and things like that, you know. And her and I were  very close. You know, I've I ve worn the tiaras.

Karissa was Paul Boudreau s first-born. Paul: She, she was daddy's little girl. She had,

she had a dog named Lady and I can  remember her hop skipping along and

singing, you know, "La la, I  love Lady, but she stinks!"

To her father, Karissa was a normal child,  with a rebellious streak. She enjoyed music,

teddy bears, and birthday sleepovers. Paul: I don't need to hang in dark places

to remember somebody. I don't want to remember  somebody in the dark times. I want to remember

when they're happy. Skipping in the hallway  singing their songs. That was Karissa.

Paul tries his best to block out bad  memories, and think about happy times

he shared with his daughter. Paul: When we were camping up in

Yarmouth one time, that's where our  dog we had to take with us. She was

due -- of course, we didn't know when. And we went  to the theater and we come back in the dark and

here's a bunch of screaming puppies all in the  campground. But that, that was her thing. She

you know, she scooped them up and got them warm  and I think that was what she aspired to be when

she got older, was probably a veterinarian. Karissa s parents had split up early on. She

lived primarily with her mom in Bridgewater. But,  Paul played an active role in her upbringing.

Paul:She worked, I babysat and things  like that. Like we got along that way.

It was Karissa who didn t  always get along with her mom.

In her early adolescence, she d asked to move  in with her dad. But, in grade 6, after living

with him for 5 months, she changed her mind. Paul: She missed her mother, you know. I had no

idea what was going on at the time down there.  And I always want what's best for my, you know,

I can't force you to stay here if you want  to go back to your mother's and stay, that's

that s fine. I want you to be happy. A few months go by, and Karissa appears

to be settling back into classes  at Bridgewater Elementary School.

But then, the news a parent never wants to hear. Ross: How did you learn that Karissa was reported

missing? Do you remember? Paul: I'm pretty sure it was

her mother that called me, and said that she was  missing. I'm like, what do you mean missing?

Sgt. John Collyer: Karissa was last seen  in the mall parking lot in front of Sobeys

store here in Bridgewater on LaHave Street. She  was involved in an argument with her mother and

mom went inside and, to make a  few purchases. When she came out

after ten, fifteen minutes, Karissa was gone. At this point, there are no signs of

no signs of foul play or anything like that.  But we have not ruled out any options. We

are exploring all options at this point. What's most disturbing to us is that she

was dressed inappropriately for the weather. She  is five feet in height. Hundred thirty pounds.

Straight, shoulder length, brown hair. And she  was last seen wearing a black hoodie, black vest,

blue jeans, and she had pink crocs on her feet. Paul: Well, I mean, I'm not a

survivalist or anything, but I spent a lot  of time in the woods and I know a wind chill

of minus 18 or whatever it was that night  with heavy snow and stuff, with a hoodie and

a pair of crocs. How far you gonna get? You know, one kilometer radius before

you freeze to death. That's why I said if she,

if that story was was true, they would  have found her right off the bat.

Things never made sense to me from day one. Penny: We all love you. We all love... Karissa,

we love you. Your grandparents are  looking for you. All of us are.

I don't know where you are, but just  come home or call or something. Please.

All your friends are looking for you. We're  all worried. We just want you home safe.

It's not like we're gonna get mad. We  just want you home safe. Please.

COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK PEOPLE  REPORT SIGHTINGS OF KARISSA,

AND THE COMMUNITY RALLIES  TOGETHER TO TRY AND FIND HER.

12-YEAR-OLD KARISSA BOUDREAU HAS BEEN  REPORTED MISSING BY HER MOTHER PENNY.

PENNY SAYS THEY D HAD AN ARGUMENT.  THAT SHE D LEFT KARISSA IN THE CAR

WHEN SHE WENT TO GRAB SOME GROCERIES. WHEN  SHE RETURNED, SHE SAYS KARISSA WAS GONE.

NOW BACK TO ROSS LORD... WITH KARISSA BOUDREAU:

UP WITH THE ANGELS. Sgt. John Collyer:

Given her age and the weather conditions  and the fact that we have not heard anything

from her since we, this has become public,

we we definitely have concerns. So at this point  in time, I'd like to to have Karissa s mom speak

directly to Karissa. Penny... Penny:

I don t know really what to say other than, I hope  she s listening. I don't know if I can do this.

It s okay. Reporter: That argument,

whatever it was, was certainly nowhere near as  important as what we're here talking about now.

Do you want to put that in perspective? Penny: It wasn't, it wasn t like a big argument

per say. I took her for a drive that day just to  try to have a heart to heart with her in a place,

like in a car she can't get away and slam the  door, what she usually does to me. I just wanted

to try to reach out to her as a mom and set some  things straight as far as typical teenage things

or whatever. And she didn't like what I had  to say. I mean, most kids don't. She didn't

want to go in the store with me, which was fine. I  mean, she doesn't usually like to go in, so...

The type of emotional account  that resonates with any parent.

Penny: To put it in plain English, not knowing  where your kids are is horrible because

she didn't go anywhere without me taking  her. So we always knew where she was.

Police launched a ground search of the  area but snow was slowing their efforts,

especially for search helicopters. Cop: It is grounded due to the weather conditions.

Low ceiling in the Shuby area. We  have a little higher ceiling here,

but unfortunately if they can't get off  the ground they can't make it here so...

With every passing hour, growing  concern about Karissa s safety.

Finally, the weather started to  clear the river started to thaw

and when it did, divers were sent in... Diver: Most of us have kids and you know,

from time to time, there's things that  happen in our lives as well. But you know,

we do this because we want to help people. And  you know, we can make a difference sometimes.

And hopefully here we're going to find out that  she's not here and that she's somewhere safe.

At the time of her disappearance, Karissa and  Penny had been living with Penny s boyfriend,

Vernon Macumber. Penny re-enacted the events of  January 27th for investigators. Explaining how

she d taken her daughter for a drive. They d gone  to this grocery store. Surveillance camera images,

obtained through a Freedom  of Information request, show

Penny went inside, while Karissa stayed  in the car. Penny said when she returned,

Karissa was gone. Cop: We have no reason to

to believe at this point that there's any any  reason to disbelieve what mom has told us.

Still, no answers for the  Bridgewater Police Service.

John: They had almost exhausted all of their  leads that they could do in a missing person.

They had interviewed many, many people,  classmates, relatives, friends, teachers,

whoever, whoever they, they could  try to get some information from.

At the time, John Elliott was with the  Southwest Nova Major Crime Unit and based

in the New Minas RCMP detachment. John: They investigated as well,

sightings of Karissa that people were calling in,

there were quite a few sightings, and they  were from Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario.

People were calling that thought  they had sightings of Karissa.

Parents pitched in to help find Karissa -- putting  up posters, and creating pages on social media.

Just makes you worry. Like I said, when  you have kids of your own especially,

well for anybody. But when you have kids of your  own, my my kids walk home to and from school.

A lot of kids around here hang out with older  people and she could be just staying with a

friend or she could have known somebody  farther away and went with them.

Even the mayor sensed the shift. Mayor: It's a mood of anxiety and

certainly moms and dads of young folks in the  community are fearful that this kind of thing,

where this kind of thing could lead. It had now been 5 days since Karissa

s mom reported her missing. At a second news  conference, Penny made another public plea.

Penny: I just want to tell you that you have  lots of people who love you and want your

home. If not Karissa herself, somebody let me  know. It's hard to not know where your kid is.

I'm done.

2 weeks after Karissa disappeared, a break  in the case -- a horrific discovery

A woman reported her 9-year-old boy had  seen human toes sticking out of the snow,

on a river bank, at a turn-off area. Ross: Investigators were at the scene

again this morning of a discovery of human remains  in Bridgewater, Nova Scotia. But the discovery on

Saturday still hasn't cleared up the mystery of  what happened to Karissa Boudreau, the 12-year-old

girl missing for more than two weeks. Cop: It's a young female Caucasian.

Ross: But police say answers about the  remains found on this riverbank won't come

until at least the Wednesday, after Nova Scotia  s chief medical examiner conducts an autopsy on

the remains. But is it Karissa? The question  is on everyone's mind in this small town.

COMING UP POLICE IDENTIFY THE BODY

AND REVEAL THE CAUSE OF DEATH SENDING  CHILLS THROUGH THE COMMUNITY.

TWO WEEKS AFTER 12-YEAR-OLD KARISSA  BOUDREAU IS REPORTED MISSING

THE DISCOVERY THAT EVERYONE  IS DREADING. HUMAN REMAINS.

HERE S ROSS LORD... WITH KARISSA  BOUDREAU: UP WITH THE ANGELS.

The autopsy on the frozen body discovered on the  banks of Bridgewater s LaHave River confirms the

remains as Karissa Boudreau. Because Karissa  s body was found just outside the town limits,

the RCMP is called in to lead the investigation. John: I was hoping at that point that it was maybe

misadventure on her part. You know,  she was injured. Fell down the bank.

Whatever it may be, I didn't want it  to be a homicide. That's for sure.

The Chief Medical Examiner concludes the cause of  death was asphyxiation, and that Karissa had been

strangled. Karissa s clothing had been arranged  in a way that suggested she d been sexually

assaulted. But there are no other injuries. John: I hadn't been to an autopsy in some years.

So I, I, I kind of put my hand up, if you  want to use that phrase to say, I'll go.

John Elliott willingly attends Karissa s autopsy  -- sparing younger officers whose own children

were around her age. His children were older. John: I didn't realize the effect

that it would have on me. I went to the autopsy,

they re never something anybody wants to attend.  Certainly not something that anybody would enjoy.

But being a child, a 12-year-old girl, it was  it was particularly hard. It was devastating.

When it was over, we were departing the the  autopsy room. And at that point, I was, I'll say

the last police officer to leave the room.  There was one of the pathologists attendants

in the background, but Karssa was still on the  table. Her body was still on the table and...

As I, as I left the room, I looked  back and... and her head was raised.

And her eyes were still open.

So it was that scene, or that picture, that I  have in my head. And it was that picture that

I said to Penny a few days later, I was the last  one to see her basically with her eyes open.

The entire family was devastated by what  happened including Karissa s grandmother,

Paul s mother Suzanne. Suzanne: Sweet little girl

she loves is what she is seen. Well, we're  just trying to take a moment by moment.

Sometimes it gets overwhelming and  we just don't how we're gonna go on.

And then I guess we calm down for a while  and we know we have to get through this.

At Karissa s funeral, an overflow crowd of

hundreds heard her favourite song --  the one she called her happy song.

Inside, Paul could not bring  himself to view Karissa s casket.

Paul: I myself I didn't go see her.  I didn't wanna ruin the image of my

beautiful little girl in my mind. Penny and Vernon also attended

the funeral. John s team starts to come up

with a theory of what might have happened. John: There was some thought that possibly

Penny Boudreau, Karissa's mother, and/or her  boyfriend, Vernon McCumber, may be involved.

They're... From the Bridgewater investigation,  Bridgewater Police Service investigation,

there was just no other suspects. And they had they had interviewed a

lot of people. There was just no reason  for this young girl to go missing.

Over the next couple of months, for sure,  we did look at other possible suspects.

Anybody in the area that was strange. Anybody  that had any type of criminal record involving

any type of sexual offenses or, you know with  children. We looked at all those possibilities.

But they kept coming back to Penny John: I recall quite vividly my

wife actually after the news, the  press release was done, saying

There's something wrong there. Penny s story of an argument with Karissa

right before she disappeared stood out to John. John: The times that I d met her, of course, she's

possibly a suspect. She was very quiet, she  she asked very few questions. Especially

when we told her that the body, a body was found.  She never did ask how, how Karissa had died.

She never asked that question once at any time.

In public, Karissa s dad, Paul, went  along with Penny s official explanation.

But privately, something seemed off. Paul: It didn't make sense. And once I got to

Bridgewater and seen her mother's body language  and that stuff. She was more concerned with

with Vernon and Vernon had blew his knee out  or hurt his leg or something like that. And

she was more worried about attending to him

than she was about the Amber Alert that  was on the radio. When her name was across

radio and the Amber Alert that's one of the  times when I kind of lost my composure.

The family history is unusual. Paul  and Penny parted during her pregnancy.

She entered a relationship with his brother,  Shane. They split up when Karissa was 10.

Paul: You know, somewhere along  the lines, whether whether it was

the experiences and the people she  met after her and my brother parted,

she became an altogether different person. You  know, that heartless side came out into her more

and more as it went on. I know how susceptible she  is to any suggestion when it comes to male, when

it comes to any male paying attention to her. In December, Karissa had expressed her own

thoughts, in a series of handwritten notes. Police discovered them in Karissa s bedroom

during a search of her mom s apartment. John: So on December 2nd, and you ll see it s

dated December 2nd 08 but it was actually in 07. I'm mad because mom is engaged to Vernon!

Mom made me move here. Mom broke up  with Shane! I want a bigger room!

I don't like Vernon living with us! The end my  life is ruined! By Karissa. Heart and a star.

She said I m sad because. And this  was written on December 2nd.

I'm sad because... One, I  have to go to school tomorrow!

Two, I miss Shane and Tracy! Three, I have to  go to bed at nine thirty instead of eleven!

Four, I live in an apartment! Five,  there is no room for my stuff!

Six, I feel crowded. Seven, end of story my life  sucks until we live in a house. By Karissa.

The Bridgewater apartment the three had shared  was becoming a source of valuable evidence.

Neighbour: People upstairs said that they  argued quite a bit. They could hear them

arguing and all that. John: We had hearsay from

neighbors of Vernon saying things  like, 'I know you did it. Penny',

'Why did you get me involved?' Those types of  comments that were heard by other neighbors

through the apartment walls. Some of that fighting  took place during the initial investigation by

the Bridgewater Police Service. And some of it  as well, when we took over the investigation.

It also, that was still still going on. RCMP brought in a criminal profiler to

compile a thorough outline of what they believed  happened. But, in their pursuit of the truth,

investigators were still stonewalled. John: We had cooperation up to a point with Penny

and Vernon. But that cooperation ended  on the 14th of February when we brought

them both in and actually arrested them. When asked, you know, did you have anything to do

with Karissa's murder? Her response  was basically, my lawyer advised me to

not say anything. She never denied it, that  she had nothing to do. She just said, my lawyer

advised me not to say anything about it. If she didn't have anything to do with it,

all she had to say was, 'No, I didn't do  it. I didn't do it.' But never once.

The day after police arrested Penny and  Vernon, they released the couple. There was

not enough information to lay charges. John: As they were being released,

Penny and Vernon were walking out  the back door of the detachment. And

I was probably 15 or 20 feet away. Anyways.  Myself and another corporal actually had

walked them to the door. And I told Penny  at that time, to keep looking over her

shoulder cause we're always gonna be there. Then came, a seismic shift in the investigation.

John: And we thought, well,  we've exhausted everything else.

We need to get to the truth. And an undercover  operation is just that. To find the truth.

To see if Penny was involved or if she wasn't  involved. Or if Vernon knew, or if he didn't know.

So we were into the investigation for a few weeks  before the undercover operation started.

WHEN WE RETURN INVESTIGATORS UNCOVER THE  TRUTH AND KARISSA S HAUNTING FINAL WORDS.

WELCOME BACK TO CRIME BEAT. AT THE TIME OF HER  MURDER, 12-YEAR-OLD KARISSA HAD BEEN LIVING WITH

HER MOTHER PENNY, AND PENNY S BOYFRIEND VERNON.  WITH SUSPICIONS MOUNTING, POLICE GO UNDERCOVER.

HERE S ROSS LORD WITH KARISSA BOUDREAU:

UP WITH THE ANGELS. John: Well, the intent of

the operation, as I said, is always to get the  truth. And that's what we were going after.

The RCMP had opened a Mister Big sting operation,  where undercover officers pose as criminals. After

gaining the trust of a suspect, the undercover  operators promise to make the problem go away.

First, they discuss exactly what happened. Mister Big stings are controversial.

Courts have ruled some have been abusive  and can lead to false confessions.

John Elliott says he and his RCMP colleagues  took precautions to preserve fairness.

John: The undercover operators themself actually  know nothing about what they're doing. They're

more or less instructed to stay out, or you know,  don't watch media reports or anything like that.

They come in to the operation fairly blind. John became the go-between from the main

investigation to undercover cops. John : The undercover operators came

to me and said, Vernon McCumber had nothing  to do with the homicide of Karissa Boudreau.

He may have had suspicions of some sort. But he  had nothing to do with that homicide. The focus

was then changed to Penny. Four months into the sting,

Penny finally told the truth. John: We were actually in an

adjoining room at the hotel. So we did have  a live feed, video feed that was coming from

the room where Penny was. And  we were watching it unfold.

We heard Penny, in her own words, say that she  had murdered her daughter, Karissa. And it was...

yeah, it was kind of a very surreal  moment for me to hear that. You know,

we were we were very happy that we heard it. But  at the same time, it was a sad thing to hear.

When we saw it go down, we looked at each  other and there were tears in our eyes that,

you know, we had we had solved it. We were we  were going to give the family some justice

Even those moments of relief were tainted  by Penny Boudreau s shocking behaviour.

John: Sometimes jovial, as she described what she  did and actually reenacted it. And it was it was

quite sobering to hear those words for sure. Ross: Do you think in those moments when you say

she was jovial, was she maybe trying to impress  who she thought this crime boss was? Or is that

something you think she actually felt? John: Hard to say, really. She she probably

trying to impress for sure, because she's  looking to be part of a crime family.

The prosecution team was also confident  Penny s confession would stand up in court.

Denise: She provided hold-back evidence. That is,  evidence that the police have uncovered that they

have not put into the public domain and that only  the killer would know. She provided those details.

And as well, that she provided information  that led to the recovery of physical evidence

of the crime that's that supported  the confession that she provided.

No video or audio recording of Penny s  Mr Big confession has ever been released.

Neither has the transcript. But we do have the  agreed-upon Statement of Facts. In it . the

graphic details of what Penny did to her daughter  -- a summary of what Penny disclosed to an

undercover operator during the sting operation. After buying juice and bacon at Sobeys, Penny

described returning to the car where Karissa was  waiting for her. Out of the trunk, Penny grabbed a

piece of beige twine and put it in her pocket. After driving Karissa around, once it was dark,

she drove to a secluded spot. They both got out of the car.

Penny said she pushed, tackled Karissa...  and Karissa fell on her back.

The only thing Karissa said  to her was mommy don t.

Penny said Karissa was scared.

Penny said she was face to  face with her daughter.

Which makes what she did next,  all the more horrific.

Penny used her knees to pin Karissa down. Then she strangled her with the twine.

Penny told the undercover officer that when there  was no more breathing, she dragged Karissa s body

and put her in the passenger side of the  vehicle, then she drove back into town.

Penny then drove to a second  location by the river.

Some of Karissa s clothing had come  off in the process of moving the body.

But Penny left her daughter undressed. She felt,

this would make people think Karrisa  had been sexually assaulted.

She said she rolled Karissa s  body over the edge of the bank

knowing that the weather was calling for lots of  snow and that she wouldn t be found for awhile.

Among the key hold-back evidence -- the  position of the body and the state in

which Karrisa was discovered and knowledge of  a pink croc left behind at the first scene.

Penny indicated she had been  considering the murder for

several days. (Boo ing)

Penny Boudreau was charged  with first degree murder,

accused of killing Karissa in a planned  and deliberate manner. She pleaded guilty,

to a reduced charge of 2nd-degree murder. Denise: A case of a mother killing a child,

and especially an adolescent child, is is a  rarity. You will find cases of of child abuse,

more often committed by men than by women,  cases where there is abuse of a minor child,

someone who is, you know, a toddler or an  infant, usually under under five years of

age. But to find a case where a mother kills  her adolescent child is without precedent.

Before sentencing, seasoned prosecutors struggled

to present the facts to the court. Denise: People started to sob and you could

hear it. And again, it's just something that you  have to steel yourself to in order to get through

the job that you have to do. The image of Penny, her knees on Karissa

s chest as Karissa said her final words. Paul: How do you go from being a loving mother to

standing on your child and strangling her to  death? The last words are, 'mommy, don't'.

John: Mommy, don't. Yes, it it sends chills. It  sends chills. Even to this day, those words.

Denise: I still can't say them. Yeah. Penny s guilty plea spared friends and families

from an agonizing trial. Paul: It would have been a long,

drawn out process that, as bad as it is,  would have probably made the situation worse.

Paul: The judge said herself, crocodile  tears. And that's all it's ever been

and that's all it ever will be. Penny have you you got anything to say?

Are you sorry Penny? John: She never showed any signs of remorse.

She did say she was sorry in court at the day  of the proceedings, but it was weak. And what

was she sorry for? That she got caught? Or  that you actually murdered her daughter?

And it wasn't until we showed her a bit of the  video of her talking to the crime boss, describing

what she did, that she she finally broke down.  And uh, and she even wrote a letter to Karissa.

The interviewer asked her to  write a letter to Karissa and and

give her feelings, but wasn't much of a letter. Ross: The feeling of relief here in Bridgewater

is tainted by new feelings of disgust. Members of  the community, even experienced police officers,

saying they're at a total loss to understand  how a mother could do this to her daughter.

Betrayal, for the thousands of people  who supported Penny -- to the point of

donating their hard-earned dollars, to her  fabricated campaign to find her daughter.

Streeter: Every single day that little  girl was gone we all prayed for her.

And we were just hoping and hoping  that she was going to come home safe.

Streeter: I am a mother too. And  you, and you fight you walk away.

you come back and things are better. You  don't take, give life and take life.

No-one could understand why a 34-year-old  grocery clerk with no previous criminal record

would commit such an atrocity. Penny suggested to undercover cops

she did it to save her relationship  with Vernon, that he gave her an

ultimatum -- to pick either him, or, Karissa. But Vernon said he had no idea Penny would murder

Karissa. He denies he gave Penny an ultimatum,  saying he only told Penny that the fighting

between her and Karissa could not continue. Paul: She catered to his every little,

every little whim. And pretty much, I  was gonna say, she was a robot to him.

John: I don't think for one moment that  he thought, you know, you're going to

have to murder your daughter if you want me to  stay. And it was I think he just meant, 'Look,

have Karissa go back to her father or stepfather.  And you and I can live together. But if you don't

want to do that, then I'm going to move on.' A Psychiatric Assessment found Penny had

Borderline Personality Traits. Including fear of  abandonment, distrust of others, and dissociative

experiences. She later told the Parole Board  she lost her mother to suicide at a young age.

But, at sentencing, Nova Scotia Supreme  Court Justice Margaret Stewart noted

there was no evidence of health issues, anger  management problems, drug use or depression.

Justice Stewart concluded: Ms. Boudreau is capable  of manipulation and articulate in doing so,

terminating a young vibrant life, full of promise  for Penny Boudreau s selfish desire to guarantee

a love life that had no room for a child. Justice Stewart added any remorse flows from

having an overwhelming case against her. Addressing Penny Boudreau directly, the judge said

you can never call yourself mother in conjunction  with Karissa s name again and the words mommy don

t from a trusting and loving Karissa are there to  haunt you for the rest of your natural life.

COMING UP, ENSURING KARISSA S LEGACY LIVES ON  AND PENNY BOUDREAU S INCREASING FREEDOMS.

The town of Bridgewater, Nova Scotia  betrayed by a mother faking tears and

pleading for help in securing the safe return of  her daughter -- 12-year-old Karissa Boudreau.

In January 2009, Penny Boudreau  pleaded guilty to murdering Karissa.

WE NOW RETURN TO ROSS LORD WITH THE CONCLUSION  OF KARISSA BOUDREAU: UP WITH THE ANGELS.

In Bridgewater, 12 years  have passed. But, the trauma

remains -- from a case that still defies belief. Mayor, David Mitchell: We're still dealing with

it. We know from coast to coast murders happen,  but not murders of children by parents. And so

it's just we're still struggling to process it. The current mayor of Bridgewater was a city

counsellor at the time of Karissa s murder. Mayor: So we do have a mother's of angels, a place

of reflection down in one of our parks. And  that's where people are going because they still

they still lay flowers where her  body was found to this day.

It s shaken how he sees the world. His  three children were close to Karissa s age.

Mayor, David Mitchell: My struggles now as a  parent where I, I'm actually not able to sit

through a movie where a child is being hurt. And  I think there's lots of people having the same

kind of trauma, if you will, from those events. John: I went to her grave site on two occasions.

And that was part of dealing with what I had to  deal with. She was just a normal 12 year old girl.

She wanted to grow up to be a veterinarian.  She loved animals. I think it's important that

she be remembered other than maybe a statistic  in Nova Scotia, crime reports or something.

I think Karissa has to be remembered. And then I got word that Penny Boudreau,

her mother, was applying for parole and they had  been granted some escorted day paroles, which

I guess infuriated me in some way, made me angry. Sealing John Elliott s determination to

write a book. John: So, yeah,

it was something that I wanted. I wanted to be  told. And that there are lives affected by these

these types of things and people should maybe  know that. I had thought about writing the book

for a number of years actually. The more  the more you talk about it, the more you,

in my case write about it, sort  of the easier it becomes.

Easier because John has suffered from PTSD,  which he traces in large part back to this case.

John: It hit home a lot harder than other homicide  investigations had and I've certainly work

more than one or two. Penny has completed just over half

of her 20-year prison sentence. She avoided  a longer life sentence by pleading guilty.

And she can apply for early parole after 15 years,  under a faint hope clause in the criminal code.

The inmate advocacy group, Elizabeth Fry  Society, says Penny has decided not to apply

for early release. But, she is gradually gaining  more freedom -- receiving escorted day passes,

to attend church several times a year. A Psychological Assessment, in 2017,

rated her as a very low risk to reoffend. But, the  assessment said her romantic relationships should

be monitored, to ensure her risk remains low. It  noted attachment disruptions in early childhood

appear to have made you vulnerable to engaging in  unhealthy relationships and reacting with extreme

distress when they are in jeopardy of ending.  Penny declined our request for an interview.

Paul says he understands  it s how the system works,

as part of an inmate s rehabilitation. But, he  says he will oppose her freedom at every turn.

Paul: Ever since this happened,  she's never faced any of us.

I want her to look me in the eye and tell me  that she's rehabilitated and she should be out

She should be back, back out and starting life  over again. Explain to me why you think that is.

And if she can give me a good reason, then you  know what? She's done her time whatever. And

you know, if she can give me one good reason,  why she thinks, why she thinks that she should

be out in the public and functioning  again. You know what? I won't argue.

But I guarantee that's not going to happen. ROSS: Do you feel like there's

been justice for Karissa? Paul: I don't know if there ll ever be

justice for her. You know. I hope I hope to this  day the horrors of that still in her mind every

time, every night, which she closes her eyes. Ross: Is there any prospect or any situation that

you can foresee where you would forgive Penny? Paul: Not a chance. Not a chance.

Paul is rebuilding his life with a new  wife, Kim, her 10 year old son, Logan,

and, another daughter -- 4 year old, Carmie.

Ow. Paul: Come here That's enough,

enough. Wanna go feed the fish? Yeah. Okay.

And I try to program my brain to leave  the negative stuff where it should be,

just locked away.

Paul is determined not to let what happened  to Karissa ruin the rest of his life.

Paul: We'll never forget her. Nobody will ever  forget her. And I'm not saying that people of

Bridgewater and that, shouldn't forget her and  that stuff. I mean, that's great that they got

the monument and that stuff down there. But for  myself and the family, bringing back that horror

doesn't help, desn't help anything. For years, he could not

visit the town of Bridgewater. Paul: There was the longest time

I had so much anxiety that I couldn't even  pull in the exit. I mean, I'm I'm okay now,

but it took me a long time to reprogram my brain  to not get that anxiety over over going there.

Paul says this will be the only time he  shares his emotional ordeal publicly.

Paul: You know, I agreed to do to do this one  and only, you know, interview with you guys.

But that's it you know what I mean. He s doing it, he says, for his mother,

Suzanne Grear -- who died recently, and  never got over her grand-daughter s murder.

And... to honour Karissa s memory. Paul: Like I want to remember my happy

go lucky girl, not what happened to her. Paul: Can you find Sissy in this picture?

Carmie: Right there. Paul: Right there, yeah.

Paul: She was four. Carmie: Four?

Paul: Four, I think. Yeah. Four years old. Carmie: Four years old, like me?!

Paul: Yeah. Like you. Every time my little one,

her little sister that she is now, does something,  you know, sometimes she reminds me you know,

Karissa used to look that way or she used to...  you know, there's different things like that.

(Carmie and Paul) I like this one the best.

You like that one the best? Yeah I like this one. Cause she got messy hair like you do? Yeah.

They're very nice aren't they. Where s Sissy at now, she's where?

She up with the angels? Yeah.

Is she up with the angels, is she?  She up with John John and Nanny.

That where she is?.

Yup Karissa's been in my life

every day. She's never left. Yup. That's my girl.

GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN FOR THOSE WHO KNEW AND LOVED KARISSA...

FOR THOSE WHO NEVER GOT THE CHANCE AND  FOR ALL THOSE TOUCHED BY HER CASE.

I M ANTONY ROBART, THANK YOU FOR  JOINING US TONIGHT ON CRIME BEAT.

Want more episodes of Crime Beat?  Listen to my Crime Beat podcast now,

for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  or wherever you find your favourite

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