All language subtitles for TWA.Flight.800.2013.1080p.WEBRip.x265-RARBG2_English

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional) Download
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian Download
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:21,934 --> 00:00:23,545 [ surf pounding, gulls calling ] 2 00:00:28,550 --> 00:00:32,380 Hank Hughes: I have thought about the TWA investigation 3 00:00:32,423 --> 00:00:34,991 very often over the years. 4 00:00:35,035 --> 00:00:37,950 It's almost been a nagging thought. 5 00:00:37,994 --> 00:00:40,518 It's the one assignment that I was given 6 00:00:40,562 --> 00:00:43,739 in my entire career of 42 years as an investigator 7 00:00:43,782 --> 00:00:46,698 in one form or another that I didn't finish. 8 00:00:46,742 --> 00:00:48,831 And I like to finish my work. 9 00:00:48,874 --> 00:00:53,053 Woman on radio: TWA 800, you're allowed to climb and maintain 13,000. 10 00:00:53,096 --> 00:00:56,056 Man on radio: TWA 800, climb and maintain 13,000. 11 00:00:56,099 --> 00:01:00,016 Man: It was about 8:30. 12 00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:04,064 I was standing on a bridge looking south. 13 00:01:04,107 --> 00:01:07,589 Woman: I was at Davis Park with my two young daughters. 14 00:01:07,632 --> 00:01:10,896 [ airline radio chatter ] 15 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:12,768 Man #2: So I'm actually heading east 16 00:01:12,811 --> 00:01:14,987 and I just got done talking to my coworker. 17 00:01:17,251 --> 00:01:19,122 Woman #2: It was a very warm night 18 00:01:19,166 --> 00:01:22,995 and it was just-- it was kind of stifling almost. 19 00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:24,606 Man #3: We were taking a walk that evening. 20 00:01:24,649 --> 00:01:26,260 Man #4: We were taking a nice night flight. 21 00:01:26,303 --> 00:01:27,957 Woman #3: I was walking with a friend of mine. 22 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,567 Man #5: I was standing on the dock and I was looking out 23 00:01:29,611 --> 00:01:31,047 in a southeasterly direction. 24 00:01:31,091 --> 00:01:32,440 Woman #4: I was on my boat. 25 00:01:32,483 --> 00:01:34,137 Woman #5: I was at Meschutt Beach. 26 00:01:34,181 --> 00:01:36,444 Man #6: We just happened to look up at the sky. 27 00:01:36,487 --> 00:01:39,577 And all of a sudden I see something rise up from behind these trees over here. 28 00:03:00,571 --> 00:03:03,313 Reporter: The US Coast Guard tonight is reporting an explosion 29 00:03:03,357 --> 00:03:05,924 about 10 miles south of Long Island. 30 00:03:05,968 --> 00:03:08,231 The 747 was on its way to Paris 31 00:03:08,275 --> 00:03:10,146 from JFK in New York. 32 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:12,496 Reporter #2: We now have it that TWA flight 800, 33 00:03:12,540 --> 00:03:15,064 a commercial 747 aircraft 34 00:03:15,107 --> 00:03:18,502 carrying 212 passengers, a crew of 17, 35 00:03:18,546 --> 00:03:20,765 has exploded in midair 36 00:03:20,809 --> 00:03:23,681 about 10 miles out into the Atlantic Ocean. 37 00:03:26,380 --> 00:03:28,599 Reporter #3: Bodies are being pulled out of the water right now. 38 00:03:28,643 --> 00:03:30,514 No survivors so far. 39 00:03:30,558 --> 00:03:33,082 Reporter #4: There's a lot of search boats. 40 00:03:33,125 --> 00:03:35,389 Reporter #5: One witness described a big fireball 41 00:03:35,432 --> 00:03:37,042 with pieces coming off it. 42 00:03:37,086 --> 00:03:38,870 Tom Kennedy: I was pulling my boat back in. 43 00:03:38,914 --> 00:03:40,263 I was tying it up and the guy next to me 44 00:03:40,307 --> 00:03:42,134 was tying his boat up. 45 00:03:42,178 --> 00:03:43,571 And the guy said, "Hey, look at the flare." 46 00:03:43,614 --> 00:03:45,921 And I turned around and I'm like, "Wow. 47 00:03:45,964 --> 00:03:47,749 Somebody must have some trouble in the bay." 48 00:03:47,792 --> 00:03:50,447 No sooner I said that, the thing just exploded. 49 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:53,581 Robert Young: The beeper went off. 50 00:03:53,624 --> 00:03:55,887 It was our flight operations dispatch. 51 00:03:55,931 --> 00:03:57,715 As the head of flight operation safety 52 00:03:57,759 --> 00:04:00,370 and the chief safety investigator, I was hoping it was a drill. 53 00:04:00,414 --> 00:04:01,893 But it wasn't. 54 00:04:13,818 --> 00:04:18,519 I was in Atlanta getting ready to support the '96 Olympics. 55 00:04:18,562 --> 00:04:21,652 My phone rang, which was my unit chief 56 00:04:21,696 --> 00:04:23,480 from the explosives unit telling me to catch 57 00:04:23,524 --> 00:04:25,265 the first plane out to New York tomorrow morning. 58 00:04:37,886 --> 00:04:40,584 I was at home and my pager went off 59 00:04:40,628 --> 00:04:42,847 and I was on the go team. 60 00:04:57,775 --> 00:05:00,778 We gathered all the people that we thought we would need 61 00:05:00,822 --> 00:05:04,608 and we arrived about 4:00 in the morning at JFK Airport in New York. 62 00:05:07,611 --> 00:05:09,961 [ speaking French ] 63 00:06:07,758 --> 00:06:11,022 Heckman: The command post was at the East Moriches Coast Guard station, 64 00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:13,721 which was the closet Coast Guard station to where the plane actually went down. 65 00:06:13,764 --> 00:06:15,636 Hughes: We went to the Coast Guard station 66 00:06:15,679 --> 00:06:18,203 at Moriches immediately. 67 00:06:18,247 --> 00:06:21,685 There were hundreds and hundreds of police officers there. 68 00:06:21,729 --> 00:06:24,079 James Speer: My first impression 69 00:06:24,122 --> 00:06:26,211 of the investigation was 70 00:06:26,255 --> 00:06:28,300 martial law. 71 00:06:42,358 --> 00:06:45,405 There were approximately 1,000 cops, it seemed, there 72 00:06:45,448 --> 00:06:47,276 of which half of them were FBI agents. 73 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:49,278 They had guards on the hangar, 74 00:06:49,321 --> 00:06:52,412 they had cops at the Coast Guard station, 75 00:06:52,455 --> 00:06:56,459 and it seemed very unusual for an accident investigation. 76 00:06:56,503 --> 00:06:58,722 Young: Helicopters were landing and taking off 77 00:06:58,766 --> 00:07:00,463 like every three or four minutes. 78 00:07:00,507 --> 00:07:05,294 Wreckage was coming in and bodies were coming in. 79 00:07:05,337 --> 00:07:07,644 One of the people who went out with me on the first morning 80 00:07:07,688 --> 00:07:10,168 was a former Army helicopter pilot 81 00:07:10,212 --> 00:07:13,476 who had significant experience with Black Hawk helicopters. 82 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,173 One of the helicopters came in and he said, 83 00:07:15,217 --> 00:07:18,220 "That's odd. That's a Special Operations helicopter." 84 00:07:18,263 --> 00:07:20,744 And I said, "Oh, that is odd. 85 00:07:20,788 --> 00:07:22,485 I guess maybe they just couldn't find one and they borrowed it." 86 00:07:22,529 --> 00:07:24,269 He said, "Well, I don't know." 87 00:07:24,313 --> 00:07:26,402 Reporter: Just a little while ago, a temporary morgue 88 00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:29,231 was set up on the beach in Long Island. 89 00:07:29,274 --> 00:07:32,843 Robert Golden: Right in here is the temporary morgue facilities. 90 00:07:32,887 --> 00:07:35,019 This is where the boats would dock 91 00:07:35,063 --> 00:07:37,282 and unload the victims. 92 00:07:37,326 --> 00:07:39,937 Notice that hoses and various bottles of chlorine 93 00:07:39,981 --> 00:07:42,810 would be here to hose down the boats if there was any spillage 94 00:07:42,853 --> 00:07:45,900 in the back of the boats of biological fluids. 95 00:07:45,943 --> 00:07:47,989 The bodies would be photographed. 96 00:07:48,032 --> 00:07:50,426 A tag would be placed on the body. 97 00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:52,602 And if there was any jewelry present, 98 00:07:52,646 --> 00:07:53,951 that also would be photographed. 99 00:07:56,388 --> 00:07:59,783 Speer: The FBI supervised the transport of the wreckage. 100 00:07:59,827 --> 00:08:02,307 It was put on Army National Guard trucks 101 00:08:02,351 --> 00:08:04,571 and trucked to Calverton, Long Island, 102 00:08:04,614 --> 00:08:06,224 which is about 10 miles away. 103 00:08:14,624 --> 00:08:17,714 I can still smell the hangar. 104 00:08:17,758 --> 00:08:20,325 It smelled of death. 105 00:08:20,369 --> 00:08:24,286 And it just was not a pleasant place to be. 106 00:08:24,329 --> 00:08:26,201 It was very-- 107 00:08:26,244 --> 00:08:29,117 it took a toll on all of us. 108 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,685 You walked in the hangar through all the guards. 109 00:08:31,728 --> 00:08:36,298 And it was not a pleasant work environment. 110 00:08:36,341 --> 00:08:39,344 Hughes: We set up the staging area at the hangar 111 00:08:39,388 --> 00:08:42,086 and I noticed there was a great deal of friction 112 00:08:42,130 --> 00:08:45,960 between the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. 113 00:08:46,003 --> 00:08:49,616 The ATF agents, most of whom have significant 114 00:08:49,659 --> 00:08:53,576 more experience in investigating explosions than any FBI agent, 115 00:08:53,620 --> 00:08:56,623 were relegated to sitting at picnic benches and tables. 116 00:08:56,666 --> 00:08:58,015 They weren't allowed to do anything. 117 00:08:58,059 --> 00:09:00,191 Speer: On my first day there 118 00:09:00,235 --> 00:09:02,411 when I had the tour of the Calverton hangar, 119 00:09:02,454 --> 00:09:05,109 there was a structural piece of the aircraft 120 00:09:05,153 --> 00:09:07,764 lying on the floor that had three holes 121 00:09:07,808 --> 00:09:10,506 blown through it like a .22 through a tin can 122 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:14,858 with an obvious entrance and exit side of the penetration. 123 00:09:14,902 --> 00:09:16,643 I was about to take a picture of it 124 00:09:16,686 --> 00:09:18,775 and somebody tapped me on the shoulder 125 00:09:18,819 --> 00:09:20,560 and said, "Don't take that picture." 126 00:09:20,603 --> 00:09:22,779 And I said, "Who are you to tell me not to take the picture?" 127 00:09:22,823 --> 00:09:25,434 And he said, "FBI. Don't take the picture." 128 00:09:31,832 --> 00:09:34,530 The word was in the press at that time 129 00:09:34,574 --> 00:09:36,793 that eyewitnesses had already begun to report 130 00:09:36,837 --> 00:09:40,057 smoke trails corkscrewing up toward the airplane. 131 00:09:40,101 --> 00:09:42,669 Reporter: The FBI today raised new questions 132 00:09:42,712 --> 00:09:45,062 that a missile or some kind of streaking object 133 00:09:45,106 --> 00:09:47,412 was seen in the sky at the same time 134 00:09:47,456 --> 00:09:49,937 TWA flight 800 exploded. 135 00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:52,679 We do have some information that there was something in the sky. 136 00:09:52,722 --> 00:09:55,377 A number of people have seen it. 137 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,467 A number of people have described it very similarly. 138 00:09:58,510 --> 00:10:00,861 Hughes: The attitude of our senior management was, 139 00:10:00,904 --> 00:10:03,341 "Don't get too involved. The FBI's gonna handle it. 140 00:10:03,385 --> 00:10:06,214 It's a missile or a bomb and we're not gonna get involved in it." 141 00:10:07,781 --> 00:10:09,434 Young: Most all of us felt 142 00:10:09,478 --> 00:10:12,742 that it was only a matter of time before we found the piece 143 00:10:12,786 --> 00:10:15,223 that would confirm that it was a criminal event. 144 00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:20,315 Explosive traces of unknown origin 145 00:10:20,358 --> 00:10:23,971 have been found relating to TWA flight 800. 146 00:10:27,322 --> 00:10:29,890 Heckman: The FBI, 147 00:10:29,933 --> 00:10:32,153 we had our own mini lab set up on the site. 148 00:10:32,196 --> 00:10:34,111 We got multiple positive hits. 149 00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:36,505 Anything we had a positive hit off 150 00:10:36,548 --> 00:10:38,725 had to be sent down to the FBI laboratory 151 00:10:38,768 --> 00:10:41,553 where they could actually run a confirmatory test. 152 00:10:41,597 --> 00:10:44,556 Three examples of that-- 153 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,169 it was rather disconcerting because the test at the lab 154 00:10:48,212 --> 00:10:49,953 was confirmatory on those, 155 00:10:49,997 --> 00:10:52,956 meaning that those were actual explosive residues. 156 00:11:15,936 --> 00:11:17,764 [ speaking French ] 157 00:11:49,621 --> 00:11:51,232 Young: It was very early on, 158 00:11:51,275 --> 00:11:53,408 we didn't have many pieces in the hangar. 159 00:11:53,451 --> 00:11:56,193 And Jim said, "Hey, I've got something here you need to look at." 160 00:11:56,237 --> 00:11:58,587 So I went over and looked at it and it was the leading edge 161 00:11:58,630 --> 00:12:00,720 of the right wing, as I recall. 162 00:12:00,763 --> 00:12:03,940 Speer: The part was really a very sturdy piece of metal. 163 00:12:03,984 --> 00:12:06,638 I was convinced that the part had been damaged 164 00:12:06,682 --> 00:12:09,511 by a high explosion because of the entrance hole 165 00:12:09,554 --> 00:12:12,993 and the exit hole where you could obviously see the entrance side 166 00:12:13,036 --> 00:12:15,604 and obviously see the exit side. 167 00:12:15,647 --> 00:12:17,780 Young: 'Cause Jim wasn't allowed to take a picture of that part, 168 00:12:17,824 --> 00:12:20,957 he looked around the hangar and found other parts 169 00:12:21,001 --> 00:12:23,568 with similar holes. And I'm looking at this 170 00:12:23,612 --> 00:12:26,789 and I just don't know how these could occur normally in a fire. 171 00:12:26,833 --> 00:12:31,272 I decided to take it over to the FBI field lab. 172 00:12:31,315 --> 00:12:34,754 Young: The FBI has a little room that they controlled 173 00:12:34,797 --> 00:12:37,060 and, of course, we couldn't go in there. 174 00:12:37,104 --> 00:12:39,410 Speer: I knocked on the door and said, 175 00:12:39,454 --> 00:12:41,717 "I hear you have a couple of machines that test for nitrates in here." 176 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:43,153 And they said, "Yes, we do." 177 00:12:43,197 --> 00:12:44,981 And I said, "Can you show me how it works?" 178 00:12:45,025 --> 00:12:48,593 They said, "Sure. We'll run a test sample for you." 179 00:12:48,637 --> 00:12:52,162 And I said, "Well, how about you running my test sample? 180 00:12:52,206 --> 00:12:54,948 Swab this piece and check that for me." 181 00:12:54,991 --> 00:12:58,255 And so they did and sure enough it tested positive, 182 00:12:58,299 --> 00:12:59,866 which I was sure it would do. 183 00:12:59,909 --> 00:13:02,912 Positive for residue of high explosives. 184 00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:05,349 So they picked up the phone and called somebody, 185 00:13:05,393 --> 00:13:07,525 and in 90 seconds, three FBI agents 186 00:13:07,569 --> 00:13:10,137 ran in the room in their coats and ties 187 00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:11,878 and physically pushed me aside 188 00:13:11,921 --> 00:13:13,923 and wouldn't let me hear the conversation. 189 00:13:13,967 --> 00:13:15,664 Then they turned to me and said the machine 190 00:13:15,707 --> 00:13:18,972 has frequent false positives. 191 00:13:19,015 --> 00:13:21,191 There were a considerable number of positives 192 00:13:21,235 --> 00:13:22,976 because the EGIS machine 193 00:13:23,019 --> 00:13:26,414 is susceptible to false positives. 194 00:13:26,457 --> 00:13:28,764 Interviewer: He was told that the machine 195 00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:32,115 frequently yields false positives. 196 00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:33,769 That's not true. 197 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,866 At the point of TWA 800, the EGIS detector 198 00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:46,913 was very specific 199 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:48,958 and very sensitive. 200 00:13:49,002 --> 00:13:50,264 Tom Stalcup: The FBI are saying there were 201 00:13:50,307 --> 00:13:52,266 frequent false positives with the EGIS. 202 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:54,355 Is that possible? 203 00:13:54,398 --> 00:13:56,836 No, on the contrary. 204 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:05,018 The EGIS is extremely sensitive. 205 00:14:05,061 --> 00:14:09,805 It's sensitive down to about 50-100 picograms. 206 00:14:09,849 --> 00:14:12,155 It's a very small amount of material. 207 00:14:12,199 --> 00:14:15,245 It's very rare, if ever, to see 208 00:14:15,289 --> 00:14:19,075 a false alarm with the EGIS. 209 00:14:19,119 --> 00:14:22,296 So they ran the test four more times they said, 210 00:14:22,339 --> 00:14:25,777 but they physically would not let me watch them run the tests. 211 00:14:25,821 --> 00:14:28,650 And they turned to me then and said, 212 00:14:28,693 --> 00:14:31,522 "The last four tests are negative. 213 00:14:31,566 --> 00:14:34,221 We're going to declare the first test a false positive 214 00:14:34,264 --> 00:14:36,614 and the overall results negative." 215 00:14:36,658 --> 00:14:38,486 The FBI then said, 216 00:14:38,529 --> 00:14:40,880 "Oh, we've got to take this down to our lab in Washington..." 217 00:14:40,923 --> 00:14:44,448 "And verify that diagnosis." 218 00:14:44,492 --> 00:14:49,279 I don't understand why material would be taken 219 00:14:49,323 --> 00:14:52,456 from that hangar to the FBI laboratory. 220 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,677 It could be sampled right at that hangar. 221 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,723 When you take it anywhere, you're exposing it 222 00:14:58,767 --> 00:15:02,031 to potential contamination factors. 223 00:15:02,075 --> 00:15:05,948 And the part disappeared never to be returned. 224 00:15:05,992 --> 00:15:07,036 It never returned. 225 00:15:19,788 --> 00:15:21,616 [ laughing ] 226 00:15:26,969 --> 00:15:29,102 Stalcup: I talked to Jim Kallstrom about this 227 00:15:29,145 --> 00:15:31,756 and he laughed when I told him things disappeared 228 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,671 from the hangar never to return. 229 00:15:33,715 --> 00:15:36,370 I laugh that he'd laughed. He knows better than that. 230 00:15:36,413 --> 00:15:38,633 What would happen to the wreckage once it got to Washington? 231 00:15:38,676 --> 00:15:42,028 After it was reexamined down in Washington, 232 00:15:42,071 --> 00:15:45,422 whether it was-- if it was positive 233 00:15:45,466 --> 00:15:48,773 where it was indicating it could be an actual piece of evidence, 234 00:15:48,817 --> 00:15:49,818 then it wouldn't come back. 235 00:15:59,175 --> 00:16:01,003 Charles Wetli: Many of the bodies had parts of metal 236 00:16:01,047 --> 00:16:02,222 imbedded in the bodies. 237 00:16:02,265 --> 00:16:03,919 Pieces of metal we couldn't identify. 238 00:16:12,449 --> 00:16:15,844 We initially separated out these particles of metal 239 00:16:15,887 --> 00:16:19,239 in plastic containers categorized by a number we gave them 240 00:16:19,282 --> 00:16:21,197 and whether they came from the surface of the body 241 00:16:21,241 --> 00:16:23,634 or they came from the internal tissues of the body. 242 00:16:23,678 --> 00:16:26,811 And these were turned over to the FBI. 243 00:16:26,855 --> 00:16:28,770 Normally, I'd expect to receive the parts 244 00:16:28,813 --> 00:16:31,338 as he had discharged them from his office. 245 00:16:31,381 --> 00:16:34,602 But then at some point, someone from the FBI 246 00:16:34,645 --> 00:16:38,258 presented some plastic containers 247 00:16:38,301 --> 00:16:39,955 with metal parts in them. 248 00:16:39,999 --> 00:16:44,003 They weren't separated as Dr. Wetli had described. 249 00:16:44,046 --> 00:16:46,092 They were pretty much together. 250 00:16:46,135 --> 00:16:48,398 We certainly lost identification 251 00:16:48,442 --> 00:16:51,575 as to who the parts were associated with. 252 00:16:51,619 --> 00:16:53,490 If you can associate a wound 253 00:16:53,534 --> 00:16:55,144 with a certain particle, 254 00:16:55,188 --> 00:16:56,928 it tells you something about direction, 255 00:16:56,972 --> 00:16:59,279 it tells you something about velocity 256 00:16:59,322 --> 00:17:01,672 of those parts. 257 00:17:01,716 --> 00:17:03,413 But once they're combined, 258 00:17:03,457 --> 00:17:05,546 there wasn't really much analysis we could do. 259 00:17:07,852 --> 00:17:09,898 Witness: That early evening, my wife and I 260 00:17:09,941 --> 00:17:12,901 were walking up this road right here at Smith Point County Park 261 00:17:12,944 --> 00:17:16,383 and I happened to notice on my left-hand side 262 00:17:16,426 --> 00:17:19,081 just over the dunes-- 263 00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:22,171 I seen a streak of light going just about straight up. 264 00:17:22,215 --> 00:17:24,913 It was, you know, leaning a little to the right. 265 00:17:24,956 --> 00:17:28,134 We started to get witnesses calling in. 266 00:17:28,177 --> 00:17:31,050 And then we sent agents out to interview these witnesses. 267 00:17:31,093 --> 00:17:32,921 And eventually, we interviewed 268 00:17:32,964 --> 00:17:35,402 several hundred witnesses 269 00:17:35,445 --> 00:17:37,317 that actually witnessed the event. 270 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,755 The initial witness statements all indicated 271 00:17:40,798 --> 00:17:42,365 that it might have been a missile 272 00:17:42,409 --> 00:17:43,714 because they were all describing 273 00:17:43,758 --> 00:17:45,847 seeing a streaking object 274 00:17:45,890 --> 00:17:47,414 in the sky 275 00:17:47,457 --> 00:17:49,720 and then a big fireball. 276 00:17:49,764 --> 00:17:51,679 Sounded very much like a missile. 277 00:17:51,722 --> 00:17:53,202 Witness: Half a second after that, 278 00:17:53,246 --> 00:17:56,292 there was this bright starburst, all white light. 279 00:17:56,336 --> 00:17:58,555 And it just expanded 280 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:00,862 in a matter of a split second and it was huge. 281 00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:03,952 Vernon Grose: What the FBI did, 282 00:18:03,995 --> 00:18:05,867 which was so onerous to me, 283 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:08,217 is that they did all the interviewing of eyewitnesses. 284 00:18:15,442 --> 00:18:19,359 It was the FBI now being sole interrogators. 285 00:18:19,402 --> 00:18:21,665 They kept the NTSB out. 286 00:18:21,709 --> 00:18:24,233 Hughes: We've always conducted our own interviews. 287 00:18:24,277 --> 00:18:25,539 We're pretty good at it. 288 00:18:25,582 --> 00:18:27,410 We've been doing it for years. 289 00:18:27,454 --> 00:18:30,979 The vast majority of witnesses have never been interviewed 290 00:18:31,022 --> 00:18:33,373 by the National Transportation Safety Board. 291 00:18:33,416 --> 00:18:36,637 I find it unconscionable. 292 00:18:54,829 --> 00:18:56,831 My name is Vassilis Bakounis. 293 00:18:56,874 --> 00:18:59,094 I'm from Greece. 294 00:18:59,138 --> 00:19:02,880 I worked for 25 years in Olympic Airways. 295 00:19:02,924 --> 00:19:06,493 In the mid-'90s I went to the United States 296 00:19:06,536 --> 00:19:09,887 to get my commercial pilot license. 297 00:19:09,931 --> 00:19:14,457 On that day, as I was flying at approximately 2,000 feet 298 00:19:14,501 --> 00:19:16,459 over the shore of Long Island, 299 00:19:16,503 --> 00:19:19,767 I saw the light coming out of the sea. 300 00:19:19,810 --> 00:19:22,596 I followed that light 301 00:19:22,639 --> 00:19:26,208 for many seconds 302 00:19:26,252 --> 00:19:29,385 before it makes 303 00:19:29,429 --> 00:19:31,605 a kind of radius to the right. 304 00:19:31,648 --> 00:19:35,391 And then I saw the explosion. 305 00:19:35,435 --> 00:19:38,960 And then it's aflame 306 00:19:39,003 --> 00:19:41,615 and was falling down like 307 00:19:41,658 --> 00:19:44,270 an umbrella of flames. 308 00:19:48,622 --> 00:19:53,235 When I saw the light starting climbing, 309 00:19:53,279 --> 00:19:57,065 it was really, really low. Very low. 310 00:19:57,108 --> 00:20:01,025 And then it start climbing, passing my altitude 311 00:20:01,069 --> 00:20:02,679 and the explosion. 312 00:20:12,820 --> 00:20:16,215 Kallstrom: We will know what happened on that airplane. 313 00:20:16,258 --> 00:20:19,261 And I guarantee you that the resources of the FBI 314 00:20:19,305 --> 00:20:22,830 and the great law enforcement team we have at every level 315 00:20:22,873 --> 00:20:26,050 will be used on that investigation. 316 00:20:26,094 --> 00:20:29,184 Virtually nothing that the FBI learned 317 00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,708 about the investigation 318 00:20:31,752 --> 00:20:33,493 was provided to us. 319 00:20:33,536 --> 00:20:36,060 We didn't have much cooperation from the FBI 320 00:20:36,104 --> 00:20:38,454 on any part of the investigation. 321 00:20:38,498 --> 00:20:41,152 They had their own explosive techs in the hangar. 322 00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:43,111 They had their own metallurgists in the hangar. 323 00:20:43,154 --> 00:20:47,289 Heckman: We actually had FBI agents on the Navy ships. 324 00:20:47,333 --> 00:20:51,075 And as soon as the divers would bring a piece of debris to the surface, 325 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,034 our agents would take possession of it. 326 00:20:53,077 --> 00:20:55,819 They controlled the access to the wreckage. 327 00:20:55,863 --> 00:20:57,473 We were never allowed to see it 328 00:20:57,517 --> 00:21:00,694 until all the evidence techs from the FBI had looked at it 329 00:21:00,737 --> 00:21:03,610 and decided that we could see it. 330 00:21:03,653 --> 00:21:05,568 I mean, this was unheard of. 331 00:21:07,614 --> 00:21:09,485 They had video recordings 332 00:21:09,529 --> 00:21:12,619 of the ROV searches under the water. 333 00:21:12,662 --> 00:21:15,448 Speer: It became almost adversarial. 334 00:21:15,491 --> 00:21:19,365 One time, they asked us to watch underground video 335 00:21:19,408 --> 00:21:21,541 looking for engine parts. 336 00:21:21,584 --> 00:21:23,891 There was a VCR tape and they got the machine set up and running. 337 00:21:23,934 --> 00:21:25,936 It was a basic machine. 338 00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:28,156 The FBI guy stayed there. 339 00:21:28,199 --> 00:21:30,593 And I said, "You know, you can go off and do whatever you need to do. 340 00:21:30,637 --> 00:21:32,552 We can run this machine." 341 00:21:32,595 --> 00:21:35,381 "No." "Okay." 342 00:21:35,424 --> 00:21:37,513 Anyway, in looking at the tape, 343 00:21:37,557 --> 00:21:40,168 there'd be a little time clock on the top 344 00:21:40,211 --> 00:21:43,737 that had all the data like the heading, the depth, and time. 345 00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:46,217 And after a while, I began noticing 346 00:21:46,261 --> 00:21:48,437 that on the same heading 347 00:21:48,481 --> 00:21:51,179 there'd be interruptions of the time clock. 348 00:21:51,222 --> 00:21:55,575 And I turned to the FBI guy and said, "This tape has been edited." 349 00:21:55,618 --> 00:22:00,362 And I said, "I want to see the unedited version." 350 00:22:00,406 --> 00:22:03,017 And he said, "No." 351 00:22:11,852 --> 00:22:13,897 Man: Death is nothing. 352 00:22:13,941 --> 00:22:16,857 I have only passed into the next room. 353 00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,773 I am me, you are you. 354 00:22:19,816 --> 00:22:23,864 We were for each other, we are always. 355 00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:27,868 Call me by the name you have always used. 356 00:22:27,911 --> 00:22:30,740 Speak to me as you have always done. 357 00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:32,655 Change not your tone, 358 00:22:32,699 --> 00:22:36,093 but be solemn or sad in manner. 359 00:22:36,137 --> 00:22:39,401 Laugh at the things we laughed at together. 360 00:22:39,445 --> 00:22:42,230 Pray, smile, think of me, 361 00:22:42,273 --> 00:22:43,405 pray for me. 362 00:22:50,107 --> 00:22:52,806 Speer: They had barges that they would load parts on. 363 00:22:52,849 --> 00:22:55,765 And they were to keep a log on all the parts they recovered 364 00:22:55,809 --> 00:22:57,550 so they knew where all the parts came from 365 00:22:57,593 --> 00:22:59,682 because they were trying to assess 366 00:22:59,726 --> 00:23:01,989 the breakup sequence of the airplane. 367 00:23:04,295 --> 00:23:06,472 Not all of the evidence from one part of the airplane 368 00:23:06,515 --> 00:23:08,430 is gonna fall in one spot. 369 00:23:08,474 --> 00:23:11,390 So there's actually three debris fields. 370 00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:13,522 Rocky Miller: We had tags and they were color-coded 371 00:23:13,566 --> 00:23:15,524 according to the area that they were found in. 372 00:23:15,568 --> 00:23:18,222 They also had latitude, longitude on them, 373 00:23:18,266 --> 00:23:19,223 the date that they were recovered. 374 00:23:26,056 --> 00:23:28,798 Hughes: About a month into the investigation, 375 00:23:28,842 --> 00:23:31,888 I noticed that some of the materials 376 00:23:31,932 --> 00:23:34,369 in the hangar had been disturbed at night. 377 00:23:36,937 --> 00:23:38,939 Miller: One of my investigators, John Desmond, 378 00:23:38,982 --> 00:23:42,203 came to me one day and said, "Some of these tags are being changed." 379 00:23:42,246 --> 00:23:43,639 I said, "What do you mean they're being changed?" 380 00:23:43,683 --> 00:23:45,336 He said, "They're being changed from yellow to white." 381 00:23:45,380 --> 00:23:48,514 Somebody was changing tags on us. 382 00:23:48,557 --> 00:23:50,951 Now, there are only two keys to that hangar. 383 00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:53,693 I had one, the security chief had the other. 384 00:23:53,736 --> 00:23:56,826 Miller: I went over to the FBI and informed them 385 00:23:56,870 --> 00:24:00,264 that we thought somebody was in our hangar after we'd locked down at night. 386 00:24:00,308 --> 00:24:03,485 Hughes: They set up video surveillance in my hangar 387 00:24:03,529 --> 00:24:07,750 and found that three FBI agents from another office 388 00:24:07,794 --> 00:24:11,711 had entered the hangar for purposes unknown 389 00:24:11,754 --> 00:24:13,800 in the wee hours of the morning. 390 00:24:13,843 --> 00:24:16,193 Miller: We were told it was a couple of new FBI agents. 391 00:24:16,237 --> 00:24:18,239 Interviewer: And did they ever tell you who they were? 392 00:24:18,282 --> 00:24:20,459 No. 393 00:24:20,502 --> 00:24:24,201 Hughes: On one occasion an agent from California was brought in. 394 00:24:24,245 --> 00:24:26,552 There was the famous incident where little Ricky Hahn 395 00:24:26,595 --> 00:24:28,902 was out with a piece of fuselage 396 00:24:28,945 --> 00:24:30,512 trying to bend it in the middle of the night. 397 00:24:30,556 --> 00:24:34,473 I found him in the main hangar 398 00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:38,041 with a hammer pounding on some of the wreckage trying to flatten it out. 399 00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:40,609 The guy was hammering on a piece of fuselage. 400 00:24:40,653 --> 00:24:44,178 That defies any common sense. 401 00:24:44,221 --> 00:24:46,310 You don't alter or destroy evidence. 402 00:24:46,354 --> 00:24:49,009 You're altering the shape of a material 403 00:24:49,052 --> 00:24:52,969 which has acquired that shape as a result of some forces. 404 00:24:53,013 --> 00:24:55,319 Hughes: That was brought to the investigator in charge's 405 00:24:55,363 --> 00:24:58,018 attention, Mr. Dickinson. Nothing happened. 406 00:24:58,061 --> 00:25:01,456 Every time there was a problem, it was ignored. 407 00:25:03,414 --> 00:25:06,461 Man: It was about 8:30. 408 00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:08,115 The sun was still up. 409 00:25:08,158 --> 00:25:11,292 Heckman: We interviewed several hundred witnesses 410 00:25:11,335 --> 00:25:12,815 that actually witnessed the event. 411 00:25:12,859 --> 00:25:15,470 Man: I was standing on the bridge looking south. 412 00:25:15,514 --> 00:25:17,124 Woman: It was a very warm night. 413 00:25:17,167 --> 00:25:18,560 Man #2: We were taking a walk that evening. 414 00:25:18,604 --> 00:25:20,257 Man #3: We were taking a nice night flight. 415 00:25:20,301 --> 00:25:21,345 Woman #2: I was walking with a friend of mine. 416 00:25:21,389 --> 00:25:22,956 Man #4: I was standing on the dock 417 00:25:22,999 --> 00:25:24,610 and I was looking out in a southeasterly direction. 418 00:25:24,653 --> 00:25:28,048 I was at the-- I'm very upset, 419 00:25:28,091 --> 00:25:30,180 even still all these years later. 420 00:25:34,837 --> 00:25:38,188 I was at Davis Park with my two young daughters. 421 00:25:38,232 --> 00:25:39,842 I had just put them to bed. 422 00:25:39,886 --> 00:25:42,453 I was standing on the bridge looking south. 423 00:25:42,497 --> 00:25:45,500 All of a sudden, I decided I had to go outside, 424 00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:48,111 get the towels off the front deck, bring them in the house. 425 00:25:48,155 --> 00:25:52,420 I go outside, turn to the left... 426 00:25:52,463 --> 00:25:53,682 Just happened to look up at the sky. 427 00:25:53,726 --> 00:25:56,380 ...and I see something that's going across 428 00:25:56,424 --> 00:25:58,600 right in my line of sight. 429 00:25:58,644 --> 00:26:02,082 I actually see something behind a tree line, 430 00:26:02,125 --> 00:26:05,128 much like my thumb, go up in the air. 431 00:26:05,172 --> 00:26:08,392 I saw what appeared to be cheap fireworks. 432 00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:10,873 I noticed a streak of light heading up towards the sky. 433 00:26:10,917 --> 00:26:13,484 I saw this white light shoot up in the sky. 434 00:26:13,528 --> 00:26:14,703 There's something going up in the sky. 435 00:26:14,747 --> 00:26:17,880 This rocket went up in the air. 436 00:26:17,924 --> 00:26:19,273 And I seen this white light. 437 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:20,927 And I said, "Someone shot off a flare." 438 00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:22,363 And it looked like a flare going up. 439 00:26:22,406 --> 00:26:24,147 And I'm trying to figure out what it is 440 00:26:24,191 --> 00:26:26,106 because it looked completely out of place. 441 00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:27,934 Larger than a standard flare. 442 00:26:27,977 --> 00:26:30,501 And it appeared behind a house to my right. 443 00:26:30,545 --> 00:26:33,156 And it went up and out to sea. 444 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,291 I watched this object go outbound towards the horizon. 445 00:26:37,334 --> 00:26:39,075 It was moving very rapidly. 446 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,556 - It was fast. - Zoop! Just like that. 447 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,863 It was going very quickly. It's very, very shiny. 448 00:26:43,906 --> 00:26:46,082 Kind of like a little smoke plume behind it. 449 00:26:46,126 --> 00:26:49,520 Looked like a missile vapor trail to me. 450 00:26:49,564 --> 00:26:51,044 Then it turned to the left. 451 00:26:51,087 --> 00:26:52,959 - Then it turned. - And it arced over. 452 00:26:53,002 --> 00:26:54,656 And it looked like it curved to the right. 453 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:57,659 Then it momentarily disappeared. 454 00:26:57,703 --> 00:26:59,487 It disappeared for a second or two. 455 00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:01,663 Then it just sort of disappeared from my vision. 456 00:27:01,707 --> 00:27:04,100 Then I lost it 'cause there was clouds. 457 00:27:04,144 --> 00:27:05,754 Then I saw it again. 458 00:27:05,798 --> 00:27:09,715 It goes up. And there was a plane that was flying along. 459 00:27:09,758 --> 00:27:12,239 And I saw a flash of an aircraft light. 460 00:27:12,282 --> 00:27:16,286 Blink, blink, blink. 461 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:18,158 It goes up right to the side of the plane, 462 00:27:18,201 --> 00:27:20,160 and I remember thinking to myself-- 463 00:27:20,203 --> 00:27:24,033 I was very frightened that it was gonna hit the plane. 464 00:27:24,077 --> 00:27:27,471 And it was-- poof! It didn't actually hit the plane. 465 00:27:27,515 --> 00:27:28,951 It exploded right next to it. 466 00:27:30,431 --> 00:27:32,259 Now,I know nothing about military 467 00:27:32,302 --> 00:27:34,609 or any of that, so I don't know 468 00:27:34,653 --> 00:27:37,656 if its exploding next to it is still significant. 469 00:27:37,699 --> 00:27:39,788 I also noticed on the horizon 470 00:27:39,832 --> 00:27:42,965 a very bright mast light of a ship. 471 00:27:43,009 --> 00:27:46,447 From the mast light, there was another flash 472 00:27:46,490 --> 00:27:50,233 and I saw another object rise out of the ocean. 473 00:27:50,277 --> 00:27:53,323 The next thing, something comes up from underneath the plane. 474 00:27:53,367 --> 00:27:54,716 I saw an explosion. 475 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,892 This big explosion. 476 00:27:56,936 --> 00:27:59,547 And I'm looking at this and I go-- 477 00:27:59,590 --> 00:28:01,854 I remember saying out loud to myself, 478 00:28:01,897 --> 00:28:04,900 "Gee, look at that. A plane broken in the sky." 479 00:28:04,944 --> 00:28:07,990 And then the very next day, the FBI came to talk to me. 480 00:28:08,034 --> 00:28:11,515 It was almost abusive in a sense. 481 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:12,952 They took me into the back room. 482 00:28:12,995 --> 00:28:15,476 They said, "Well, we heard that you saw something. 483 00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,870 Tell us what you saw." I told them what I saw 484 00:28:17,913 --> 00:28:20,350 and they looked me straight in the face and said, 485 00:28:20,394 --> 00:28:24,093 "You did not see that. You saw nothing." 486 00:29:04,655 --> 00:29:07,006 Then they decided to jump to a conclusion. 487 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,799 Once that happened, objectivity 488 00:29:17,843 --> 00:29:19,583 went out the window as far as I'm concerned. 489 00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:24,458 Young: That's when the NTSB put on their major push 490 00:29:24,501 --> 00:29:27,504 for a mechanical failure. 491 00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:32,771 Stalcup: And were you in agreement with that push? 492 00:29:32,814 --> 00:29:35,382 We didn't find any part of the airplane 493 00:29:35,425 --> 00:29:37,079 that indicated a mechanical failure. 494 00:29:41,475 --> 00:29:43,520 Speer: They said the airplane exploded 495 00:29:43,564 --> 00:29:45,566 from the center fuel tank. 496 00:29:45,609 --> 00:29:49,831 Cause unknown. Suspect a fuel explosion. 497 00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:51,964 Merritt Birky: Early in the investigation, 498 00:29:52,007 --> 00:29:54,357 some of the first hardware that was brought up 499 00:29:54,401 --> 00:29:56,707 was from that center wing tank. 500 00:30:05,847 --> 00:30:07,936 Some of the parts from that tank 501 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:11,897 showed evidence of burning, melted aluminum. 502 00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:15,204 So we knew we had a fire in that center wing tank. 503 00:30:15,248 --> 00:30:18,468 Hughes: I think you can see from the forensic evidence, 504 00:30:18,512 --> 00:30:21,471 something did happen in or around the center fuel tank. 505 00:30:21,515 --> 00:30:24,518 The plane sat out in the sun. 506 00:30:24,561 --> 00:30:26,650 It was pretty hot in July, 507 00:30:26,694 --> 00:30:30,306 which increased the temperature of the tank in the aircraft 508 00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:32,091 to vaporize the fuel, 509 00:30:32,134 --> 00:30:34,571 so you'd have enough vapor there to cause an explosion 510 00:30:34,615 --> 00:30:36,051 if you ignite the fuel. 511 00:30:39,185 --> 00:30:41,361 The question remaining is 512 00:30:41,404 --> 00:30:43,189 what sparked the explosion? 513 00:30:43,232 --> 00:30:45,365 Stalcup: What ignited those vapors? 514 00:30:45,408 --> 00:30:47,889 Well, that's-- that's-- 515 00:30:47,933 --> 00:30:50,805 that's never been fully proven. 516 00:30:50,849 --> 00:30:55,027 Hughes: The theory was that wiring had failed 517 00:30:55,070 --> 00:30:56,506 and sparked the explosion. 518 00:30:56,550 --> 00:30:58,117 We never found any of that. 519 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,946 We didn't find any evidence in the wiring 520 00:31:00,989 --> 00:31:04,253 on the aircraft that would have indicated that a spark occurred 521 00:31:04,297 --> 00:31:07,343 inside the center wing tank to blow it up. 522 00:31:07,387 --> 00:31:10,477 Interviewer: Did anybody in the investigation find this wiring? 523 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,913 Not to my knowledge, no. 524 00:31:11,957 --> 00:31:14,655 Speer: The only wiring in the center fuel tank 525 00:31:14,698 --> 00:31:16,918 is to the fuel quantity gauge, 526 00:31:16,962 --> 00:31:19,529 and that was the fine wire meant for milliamps. 527 00:31:19,573 --> 00:31:23,011 The main power on the airplane is 115 volt AC, 528 00:31:23,055 --> 00:31:25,448 and it would have taken 1,200 volts 529 00:31:25,492 --> 00:31:27,189 to arc the fuel quantity probe, 530 00:31:27,233 --> 00:31:30,889 and there's no 1,200 volt electricity on the airplane 531 00:31:30,932 --> 00:31:32,368 outside of the engine igniters 532 00:31:32,412 --> 00:31:34,849 and that's individual to each engine. 533 00:31:34,893 --> 00:31:39,636 So the cause of the ignition of the center fuel tank 534 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,076 had to be something other than airplane electronics. 535 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:45,991 James Traficant: What I'm going to do is to request 536 00:31:46,034 --> 00:31:48,210 that Mr. Kallstrom 537 00:31:48,254 --> 00:31:50,647 come up to the table at this point. 538 00:31:50,691 --> 00:31:53,737 Mr. James K. Kallstrom, who is assistant director 539 00:31:53,781 --> 00:31:55,217 in charge of the New York office 540 00:31:55,261 --> 00:31:57,350 of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 541 00:31:57,393 --> 00:32:00,005 Roy Blunt: Mr. Kallstrom, would you just give us some information 542 00:32:00,048 --> 00:32:03,312 on how many witnesses on the ground 543 00:32:03,356 --> 00:32:07,882 or in other airplanes at the time believe they saw something 544 00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:10,711 coming from the ground headed toward that plane? 545 00:32:10,754 --> 00:32:13,627 Well, I wouldn't want to say that they all saw something coming from the ground. 546 00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:16,760 There are about 200 people 547 00:32:16,804 --> 00:32:19,807 that saw events in the sky that they described. 548 00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:21,591 None of which described a missile. 549 00:32:36,345 --> 00:32:38,608 Blunt: How many of them would you say saw 550 00:32:38,652 --> 00:32:40,175 approximately the same thing? 551 00:32:41,785 --> 00:32:45,050 A good bulk of the people on the shore 552 00:32:45,093 --> 00:32:48,749 report and we triangulate 553 00:32:48,792 --> 00:32:51,317 that they're describing roughly the same event. 554 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,408 So let's say 60-70. 555 00:32:57,584 --> 00:33:01,022 We had witnesses that saw things in the sky. 556 00:33:01,066 --> 00:33:03,329 And we talked about the possibility that a missile, 557 00:33:03,372 --> 00:33:05,679 as horrid as that is, 558 00:33:05,722 --> 00:33:07,768 could have taken down this airplane. 559 00:33:07,811 --> 00:33:10,597 And we thought that needs to be addressed. 560 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,251 Could you play the videotape, please? 561 00:33:13,992 --> 00:33:15,645 Narrator: The following program was produced 562 00:33:15,689 --> 00:33:17,560 by the Central Intelligence Agency. 563 00:33:20,433 --> 00:33:22,043 [ music playing ] 564 00:33:33,881 --> 00:33:36,405 Stalcup: It was November 18, 1997. 565 00:33:36,449 --> 00:33:39,756 I was in the middle of grad school studying physics. 566 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,281 I was sitting on my couch flipping through the channels 567 00:33:42,324 --> 00:33:45,414 with my girlfriend and the FBI came on 568 00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:47,808 and they said it was about this plane crash, 569 00:33:47,851 --> 00:33:51,116 which I had heard things about in the past, and I was interested. 570 00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:53,770 Narrator: Of particular concern to FBI investigators 571 00:33:53,814 --> 00:33:55,642 were reports from dozens of eyewitnesses 572 00:33:55,685 --> 00:33:57,731 who, on the evening of July 17, 573 00:33:57,774 --> 00:34:01,039 recall seeing an object, usually described as a flare 574 00:34:01,082 --> 00:34:04,390 or firework, ascend and culminate in an explosion. 575 00:34:04,433 --> 00:34:06,044 Was it a missile? 576 00:34:06,087 --> 00:34:08,698 Did foreign terrorists destroy the aircraft? 577 00:34:08,742 --> 00:34:11,005 At the request of the FBI, 578 00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:14,704 CIA weapon analysts look into this possibility. 579 00:34:14,748 --> 00:34:16,706 The CIA's conclusion-- 580 00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:19,622 the eyewitnesses did not see a missile. 581 00:34:19,666 --> 00:34:21,798 Just after the aircraft exploded, 582 00:34:21,842 --> 00:34:23,713 it pitched up abruptly 583 00:34:23,757 --> 00:34:26,064 and climbed several thousand feet 584 00:34:26,107 --> 00:34:30,720 from 13,800 feet to about 17,000 feet. 585 00:34:30,764 --> 00:34:32,853 Those who said they saw something ascend 586 00:34:32,896 --> 00:34:35,247 and culminate in the explosion probably saw 587 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:38,380 the burning aircraft ascend and erupt into a fireball, 588 00:34:38,424 --> 00:34:41,035 not a missile. 589 00:34:41,079 --> 00:34:44,212 To date, there is no evidence 590 00:34:44,256 --> 00:34:48,564 that anyone saw a missile shoot down TWA flight 800. 591 00:34:48,608 --> 00:34:50,523 Not a missile. 592 00:34:50,566 --> 00:34:52,829 Never was, never will be. 593 00:34:54,962 --> 00:34:56,485 Stalcup: I felt assaulted. 594 00:34:56,529 --> 00:34:59,401 I felt as if I was being lied to. 595 00:34:59,445 --> 00:35:02,709 It looked more like a big piece of propaganda 596 00:35:02,752 --> 00:35:04,667 than the results 597 00:35:04,711 --> 00:35:06,930 of an air crash investigation. 598 00:35:06,974 --> 00:35:09,977 And I just knew that there was something wrong. 599 00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:13,154 Throughout the animation, they had the underlined words 600 00:35:13,198 --> 00:35:16,070 "not a missile" and the narrator would say, "It was not a missile." 601 00:35:16,114 --> 00:35:17,680 Narrator: Not a missile. 602 00:35:17,724 --> 00:35:19,726 It just seemed odd to me 603 00:35:19,769 --> 00:35:21,684 that they would have to focus so much on telling us 604 00:35:21,728 --> 00:35:23,208 what it wasn't rather than what it was. 605 00:35:23,251 --> 00:35:24,818 [ modem hissing ] 606 00:35:28,169 --> 00:35:30,911 That night, I went on my dial-up connection 607 00:35:30,954 --> 00:35:33,305 and that's when I found out there was an eyewitness 608 00:35:33,348 --> 00:35:35,524 in the air at the time, 609 00:35:35,568 --> 00:35:37,700 an Air National Guard captain who was in a Black Hawk helicopter 610 00:35:37,744 --> 00:35:40,138 who saw an object strike another object 611 00:35:40,181 --> 00:35:41,400 that was coming from the right. 612 00:35:41,443 --> 00:35:43,706 Right then and there I said, "My goodness." 613 00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:46,970 So I thought, "Well, do I believe this article 614 00:35:47,014 --> 00:35:48,929 that I'm reading on the Internet?" 615 00:35:48,972 --> 00:35:51,149 And I thought, "Well, I'll just go right to the source themselves." 616 00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:54,891 There was a website that listed eyewitnesses 617 00:35:54,935 --> 00:35:58,025 that were listed by the media, eyewitness names. 618 00:35:58,068 --> 00:35:59,940 There was a Runyan, there was an Angelides, 619 00:35:59,983 --> 00:36:01,507 there was a Myron. 620 00:36:01,550 --> 00:36:03,422 I think those were the first three people I called. 621 00:36:03,465 --> 00:36:07,426 And I said I'm this interested citizen over here 622 00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:10,385 and they told me what they saw and it was in vivid terms. 623 00:36:10,429 --> 00:36:12,257 And I said, "Thank you very much." And I called the next person. 624 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:15,695 They all had the same story. And that's when I got hooked. 625 00:36:18,088 --> 00:36:20,395 Because these people 626 00:36:20,439 --> 00:36:22,267 saw something that night. 627 00:36:25,574 --> 00:36:28,708 Stalcup: So the CIA video, what do you think of that? 628 00:36:28,751 --> 00:36:30,579 It's a nice cartoon. 629 00:36:30,623 --> 00:36:34,670 I think the zoom climb is fraud, waste, and abuse. 630 00:36:34,714 --> 00:36:37,282 I don't know how they got the CIA to get involved in this 631 00:36:37,325 --> 00:36:39,762 absolutely ridiculous 632 00:36:39,806 --> 00:36:41,634 animation. 633 00:36:41,677 --> 00:36:44,724 I don't think that there's any engineering justification 634 00:36:44,767 --> 00:36:48,162 that says that the airplane can do what their video said it did. 635 00:36:48,206 --> 00:36:52,079 Every pilot thought, "Baloney. That could never happen." 636 00:36:52,122 --> 00:36:54,429 Trying to claim that the airplane tipped up enough 637 00:36:54,473 --> 00:36:56,823 after the nose came off and climbed... 638 00:36:56,866 --> 00:36:59,260 The nose weighs about 90,000 pounds. 639 00:36:59,304 --> 00:37:01,654 If you disrupt the center of gravity that much 640 00:37:01,697 --> 00:37:04,961 and the airplane tips up, it's gonna either stall 641 00:37:05,005 --> 00:37:08,443 and fall or break apart instantly. 642 00:37:08,487 --> 00:37:11,838 Stalcup: Did you happen to watch the CIA animation about what happened? 643 00:37:11,881 --> 00:37:14,536 - Yes, I did. - And what did you think about that animation? 644 00:37:14,580 --> 00:37:17,844 That animation didn't resemble 645 00:37:17,887 --> 00:37:20,890 anything that I saw in any way whatsoever. 646 00:37:20,934 --> 00:37:24,198 I actually watched it to the point 647 00:37:24,242 --> 00:37:27,201 when they showed that the plane split in two 648 00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:29,334 and one half went up and one half went down. 649 00:37:29,377 --> 00:37:32,032 As soon as I seen that part of their video, 650 00:37:32,075 --> 00:37:34,382 I didn't watch any more after that 651 00:37:34,426 --> 00:37:37,342 because it's just incredibly wrong 652 00:37:37,385 --> 00:37:39,169 and that's not what I seen. 653 00:37:39,213 --> 00:37:41,128 That is not what happened that evening. 654 00:37:41,171 --> 00:37:45,132 Did you ever see anything rise up out of the fireball? 655 00:37:45,175 --> 00:37:47,177 No, absolutely not. 656 00:37:47,221 --> 00:37:50,311 That fireball fell like a stone. 657 00:37:50,355 --> 00:37:52,095 That streak you saw, 658 00:37:52,139 --> 00:37:54,359 could that have been an aircraft? 659 00:37:54,402 --> 00:37:56,752 No, it was far too fast. 660 00:37:56,796 --> 00:37:59,451 I've never seen a plane go that fast up like that. 661 00:37:59,494 --> 00:38:01,322 These people on the shoreline 662 00:38:01,366 --> 00:38:04,891 saw this bright streak originating from near the surface, 663 00:38:04,934 --> 00:38:07,415 not a point two and a half miles in the sky. 664 00:38:18,208 --> 00:38:20,210 How they calculated that zoom climb, 665 00:38:20,254 --> 00:38:22,952 if I could get that information, 666 00:38:22,996 --> 00:38:26,565 I could prove that they jimmied the data. 667 00:38:26,608 --> 00:38:29,568 I filed a Freedom of Information Act request 668 00:38:29,611 --> 00:38:32,832 to the CIA and NTSB 669 00:38:32,875 --> 00:38:36,575 for the data and calculations that they used for that zoom climb. 670 00:38:36,618 --> 00:38:39,186 They refused to give me the information. 671 00:38:39,229 --> 00:38:41,884 Stalcup: But Ray's efforts weren't a total loss. 672 00:38:41,928 --> 00:38:44,583 He actually got some internal memos from the CIA. 673 00:38:44,626 --> 00:38:47,890 And I filed a lawsuit against the CIA separately 674 00:38:47,934 --> 00:38:49,892 and got other documents and, between the two of us, 675 00:38:49,936 --> 00:38:52,068 we had a nice little history of e-mails 676 00:38:52,112 --> 00:38:54,332 from inside that small group in the CIA 677 00:38:54,375 --> 00:38:56,203 that did the animation. 678 00:38:56,246 --> 00:38:59,424 One of the documents specifically discussed 679 00:38:59,467 --> 00:39:01,643 eyewitness Mike Wire. 680 00:39:01,687 --> 00:39:04,167 He's standing on a bridge 681 00:39:04,211 --> 00:39:06,387 and he sees this what he calls a cheap firework 682 00:39:06,431 --> 00:39:09,782 come by a house and kind of arcs up and goes out. 683 00:39:09,825 --> 00:39:12,611 What I saw looked like cheap fireworks 684 00:39:12,654 --> 00:39:15,004 coming out from behind the roofline 685 00:39:15,048 --> 00:39:16,658 of the double chimney house. 686 00:39:16,702 --> 00:39:20,270 It went on a 45 to 50-degree angle out to sea 687 00:39:20,314 --> 00:39:23,273 and it wavered, zigzagged up and down. 688 00:39:23,317 --> 00:39:26,102 Stalcup: The memo shows that the team that created the animation 689 00:39:26,146 --> 00:39:28,801 knew that the ascending light that Mike Wire saw 690 00:39:28,844 --> 00:39:30,890 couldn't have been the aircraft. 691 00:39:30,933 --> 00:39:34,023 But their animation that went on national television 692 00:39:34,067 --> 00:39:35,851 told a completely different story. 693 00:39:35,895 --> 00:39:37,375 Narrator: A fourth eyewitness reported 694 00:39:37,418 --> 00:39:39,464 that he watched a white light, perhaps a firework, 695 00:39:39,507 --> 00:39:41,770 traveling upward at a steep angle. 696 00:39:41,814 --> 00:39:44,947 Stalcup: The video shows the light starting at a point high up in the sky, 697 00:39:44,991 --> 00:39:47,428 not behind the house the way Mike Wire described it. 698 00:39:47,472 --> 00:39:50,605 The CIA animation shows it approximately here in the sky. 699 00:39:50,649 --> 00:39:53,521 And then it proceeds from there 700 00:39:53,565 --> 00:39:55,958 as a streak of light up into the sky, 701 00:39:56,002 --> 00:39:57,960 but that's not what I saw. 702 00:39:58,004 --> 00:40:00,267 What I saw, 703 00:40:00,310 --> 00:40:02,443 something left behind the house 704 00:40:02,487 --> 00:40:06,055 and went up to the plane, the plane blew up. 705 00:40:06,099 --> 00:40:07,448 Stalcup: After watching the animation, 706 00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:08,667 did that cause you to do anything? 707 00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:10,886 Well, that's when I called the FBI, 708 00:40:10,930 --> 00:40:14,281 you know, and I said, "You seem to be a little off 709 00:40:14,324 --> 00:40:16,457 on what you're depicting here. 710 00:40:16,501 --> 00:40:19,286 That's not the way the events unfolded." 711 00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:24,639 And what did they say? 712 00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:26,728 They said, "Do you want to change your story?" 713 00:40:26,772 --> 00:40:28,469 And I said, "No." 714 00:40:28,513 --> 00:40:30,863 I said, "But you really need to send somebody out here 715 00:40:30,906 --> 00:40:34,606 that can understand what I'm explaining." 716 00:40:34,649 --> 00:40:36,651 Okay, and what happened? 717 00:40:36,695 --> 00:40:38,392 Never heard from them. 718 00:40:38,436 --> 00:40:40,960 Interviewer: People who don't know each other 719 00:40:41,003 --> 00:40:42,788 all up and down the coast, 720 00:40:42,831 --> 00:40:44,616 they saw the same thing 721 00:40:44,659 --> 00:40:47,575 and you're saying there was a mass misperception. 722 00:40:47,619 --> 00:40:49,882 Well... [ clears throat ] 723 00:40:49,925 --> 00:40:52,232 not necessarily a misperception. 724 00:40:52,275 --> 00:40:54,495 This has been documented over and over again 725 00:40:54,539 --> 00:40:56,105 in traumatic events. 726 00:40:56,149 --> 00:40:59,631 The human mind tends to change things 727 00:40:59,674 --> 00:41:02,372 or change the sequences just because of the trauma 728 00:41:02,416 --> 00:41:03,765 of what they saw. 729 00:41:03,809 --> 00:41:06,551 They don't remember things in the sequence. 730 00:41:06,594 --> 00:41:08,553 Well, they're all very consistent. 731 00:41:08,596 --> 00:41:12,121 So, if you're saying it's mass misperception, 732 00:41:12,165 --> 00:41:14,123 which you are, really, right? 733 00:41:14,167 --> 00:41:16,474 I guess. 734 00:41:16,517 --> 00:41:18,519 I find that very bizarre. 735 00:41:18,563 --> 00:41:20,478 I can't explain it. 736 00:41:20,521 --> 00:41:23,481 I'm not a psychology expert. 737 00:41:23,524 --> 00:41:24,917 But you did explain it. 738 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,049 Well, I explain it the way it was explained to me. 739 00:41:29,095 --> 00:41:31,053 Young: If you don't mind me being blunt, 740 00:41:31,097 --> 00:41:34,274 if the airplane didn't climb, 741 00:41:34,317 --> 00:41:38,452 then the answer for what the witnesses saw in the sky 742 00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:41,760 might be an unacceptable one. 743 00:41:41,803 --> 00:41:45,677 All of a sudden, this rocket went up in the air. 744 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,549 And then there was this big explosion. 745 00:41:48,593 --> 00:41:52,553 Days later, the FBI came to visit. 746 00:41:52,597 --> 00:41:55,469 And they sat down and they were talking to me 747 00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:58,341 and they're asking me questions and I told them my story. 748 00:41:58,385 --> 00:42:00,909 And he had his little pad. 749 00:42:00,953 --> 00:42:02,781 And then when the interview was over, 750 00:42:02,824 --> 00:42:04,434 they looked at me and said, 751 00:42:04,478 --> 00:42:06,828 "You have your papers in 752 00:42:06,872 --> 00:42:09,352 to become an American citizen, don't you?" 753 00:42:09,396 --> 00:42:12,791 And I said, "Yes. I'm waiting to be called." 754 00:42:12,834 --> 00:42:15,315 They said, "Well, it would be very wise of you 755 00:42:15,358 --> 00:42:17,970 if you want to become an American citizen 756 00:42:18,013 --> 00:42:21,016 to keep very quiet about this and not to talk about it." 757 00:42:21,060 --> 00:42:23,584 Incredible. 758 00:42:23,628 --> 00:42:26,587 And so I didn't because I figured, you know, 759 00:42:26,631 --> 00:42:29,372 I wanted to become an American citizen. 760 00:42:33,638 --> 00:42:37,293 Hughes: David Mayer was a relatively new NTSB employee 761 00:42:37,337 --> 00:42:40,470 who had no training or experience in any aspect 762 00:42:40,514 --> 00:42:43,038 of transportation accident investigation. 763 00:42:43,082 --> 00:42:47,260 Almost a year after the investigation began, 764 00:42:47,303 --> 00:42:50,611 I noticed that he had come to my hangar 765 00:42:50,655 --> 00:42:53,309 and started to change evidence tags. 766 00:42:53,353 --> 00:42:55,268 Never bothered to ask me. 767 00:42:55,311 --> 00:42:57,618 Just started changing them. 768 00:42:57,662 --> 00:43:00,099 The things that he did, technically, were illegal. 769 00:43:01,970 --> 00:43:04,364 There are, I think, 10 or 12 pieces of evidence 770 00:43:04,407 --> 00:43:07,149 where he altered the location from which they were recovered. 771 00:43:07,193 --> 00:43:09,499 Young: In one case, we had a piece 772 00:43:09,543 --> 00:43:11,676 that was originally recovered in the yellow zone 773 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,678 and it was moved to the red zone 774 00:43:13,721 --> 00:43:17,290 because it made things look nicer. 775 00:43:17,333 --> 00:43:20,510 One piece, the aft keel beam under the center tank, 776 00:43:20,554 --> 00:43:22,295 came down in the yellow zone. 777 00:43:22,338 --> 00:43:24,645 Well, it would have fit much better 778 00:43:24,689 --> 00:43:26,647 with the exploding center tank theory 779 00:43:26,691 --> 00:43:28,170 if it had come down in the red zone. 780 00:43:28,214 --> 00:43:30,738 So it was moved to the red zone. 781 00:43:32,566 --> 00:43:35,613 Interviewer: You're basically telling me 782 00:43:35,656 --> 00:43:39,747 that this was an agenda-driven investigation. 783 00:43:39,791 --> 00:43:42,881 I think there's a strong possibility of that. 784 00:43:42,924 --> 00:43:45,623 And the agenda was, "That this is an accident, 785 00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:47,363 make it so." 786 00:43:51,063 --> 00:43:54,153 It's about 22 minutes after the hour and Jim Hall, 787 00:43:54,196 --> 00:43:56,895 who is the chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, is in Baltimore. 788 00:43:56,938 --> 00:43:58,505 - Good morning, Mr. Hall. - Morning, Brian. 789 00:43:58,548 --> 00:44:00,115 Brian: Tell us what's gonna go on today. 790 00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:02,117 Hall: Well, Brian, we're gonna have a public hearing 791 00:44:02,161 --> 00:44:04,206 on the TWA 800 accident. 792 00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:06,992 It's the 121st hearing 793 00:44:07,035 --> 00:44:10,473 the Board has held on a major aviation accident. 794 00:44:10,517 --> 00:44:14,086 These hearings are an exercise in public accountability. 795 00:44:18,220 --> 00:44:20,092 Dan Rather: The National Transportation and Safety Board hearings 796 00:44:20,135 --> 00:44:22,660 on the TWA flight 800 crash 797 00:44:22,703 --> 00:44:26,098 focused today on the 747's center fuel tank. 798 00:44:26,141 --> 00:44:29,667 Grose: After they've gotten to a certain stage 799 00:44:29,710 --> 00:44:33,627 of investigation, the NTSB holds a public hearing. 800 00:44:33,671 --> 00:44:35,890 Miller: Prior to the public hearing in Baltimore, 801 00:44:35,934 --> 00:44:37,892 we had what you'd call a prehearing conference. 802 00:44:37,936 --> 00:44:40,982 At its conclusion, I was asked to come to the IIC, 803 00:44:41,026 --> 00:44:43,942 the investigator in charge's office, Al Dickinson. 804 00:44:43,985 --> 00:44:46,858 And in his office he sat me down and told me 805 00:44:46,901 --> 00:44:49,121 that I was not allowed to ask any questions 806 00:44:49,164 --> 00:44:52,559 or speak at the public hearing. And I asked him, I said, 807 00:44:52,602 --> 00:44:55,388 "Al, I've been on this investigation. I don't understand this." 808 00:44:55,431 --> 00:44:58,086 And he said, "If you believe in corporate memory, 809 00:44:58,130 --> 00:45:01,350 you won't ask any questions or speak at the public hearing." 810 00:45:07,052 --> 00:45:08,444 Interviewer: What could you possibly say 811 00:45:08,488 --> 00:45:09,750 that would disrupt the hearing? 812 00:45:09,794 --> 00:45:11,230 Oh, I could get up and say, 813 00:45:11,273 --> 00:45:13,667 "Well, you know, we have great concerns 814 00:45:13,711 --> 00:45:15,321 about the accuracy of your database 815 00:45:15,364 --> 00:45:17,149 and we'd like to have a thorough, 816 00:45:17,192 --> 00:45:19,412 complete audit of your database." 817 00:45:19,455 --> 00:45:21,501 We could have said that. 818 00:45:21,544 --> 00:45:24,199 In fact, our lawyer at TWA 819 00:45:24,243 --> 00:45:27,594 complained to the NTSB about the tag database being inadequate 820 00:45:27,637 --> 00:45:30,640 and too unreliable for any analysis or conclusions. 821 00:45:30,684 --> 00:45:34,732 And that "far-from-settled investigatory information 822 00:45:34,775 --> 00:45:37,299 and analysis" would be presented at the hearing. 823 00:45:37,343 --> 00:45:40,650 Lahr: In all of the accident investigations 824 00:45:40,694 --> 00:45:42,391 I have participated in, 825 00:45:42,435 --> 00:45:45,003 eyewitness testimony was an integral part of it. 826 00:45:45,046 --> 00:45:47,092 Not this time. 827 00:45:47,135 --> 00:45:49,181 Is it true you're not going to have any of the witnesses, 828 00:45:49,224 --> 00:45:53,838 the 200 and some witnesses that just were eyewitnesses? 829 00:45:53,881 --> 00:45:56,579 Well, Brian, that is part of the FBI investigation, 830 00:45:56,623 --> 00:45:58,581 which was a criminal investigation. 831 00:45:58,625 --> 00:46:00,366 The minute the news came out 832 00:46:00,409 --> 00:46:04,022 that the eyewitness portion of that hearing was cancelled, 833 00:46:04,065 --> 00:46:06,285 I started saying, "Oh, my God, what's going on? 834 00:46:06,328 --> 00:46:09,331 This is really big. They don't want these eyewitnesses to talk." 835 00:46:09,375 --> 00:46:11,594 Is there any doubt in your mind 836 00:46:11,638 --> 00:46:13,945 as to whether or not this was a missile? 837 00:46:13,988 --> 00:46:16,556 I have no-- 838 00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:19,037 no reason in my mind 839 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,909 to think that this was a bomb or a missile. 840 00:46:21,953 --> 00:46:23,911 And I feel that we've done everything we can 841 00:46:23,955 --> 00:46:25,783 to look at that issue. 842 00:46:25,826 --> 00:46:29,830 Mr. Hank Hughes joined the NTSB in 1985. 843 00:46:29,874 --> 00:46:32,354 He is a senior investigator assigned to the office 844 00:46:32,398 --> 00:46:33,442 of aviation safety. 845 00:46:33,486 --> 00:46:35,488 Hughes: My report, which was 846 00:46:35,531 --> 00:46:37,925 496 pages in length or thereabouts 847 00:46:37,969 --> 00:46:40,014 with photographic supplement 848 00:46:40,058 --> 00:46:42,930 was cut and amended without my knowledge. 849 00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:45,019 When I did find out about it, 850 00:46:45,063 --> 00:46:47,021 I complained. Nothing was done. 851 00:46:47,065 --> 00:46:51,765 We were required to provide a factual report, 852 00:46:51,809 --> 00:46:54,986 but ordered not to write an analysis. 853 00:46:57,336 --> 00:46:59,773 Interviewer: What? Could you say that again? 854 00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:02,341 We were directed to write a factual report, 855 00:47:02,384 --> 00:47:04,386 but not an analysis. 856 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:06,649 All we issued was factual reports. 857 00:47:06,693 --> 00:47:09,870 Wetli: I was basically requested to supply autopsy reports 858 00:47:09,914 --> 00:47:12,655 and photographs and so forth. But there was no analysis. 859 00:47:12,699 --> 00:47:15,658 In all of the other investigations that I've done 860 00:47:15,702 --> 00:47:18,705 and every other NTSB investigator I've worked with, 861 00:47:18,748 --> 00:47:21,926 the group chairman writes a factual report... 862 00:47:23,753 --> 00:47:26,017 and then based on that factual report, 863 00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:28,541 writes an analysis of the significance 864 00:47:28,584 --> 00:47:31,370 of the facts and circumstances 865 00:47:31,413 --> 00:47:33,024 of that aspect of the accident. 866 00:47:33,067 --> 00:47:35,940 Shanahan: To determine really what happened, 867 00:47:35,983 --> 00:47:37,942 you've got to put everybody's findings together 868 00:47:37,985 --> 00:47:39,769 and analyze it, 869 00:47:39,813 --> 00:47:41,728 which we've done that in every investigation 870 00:47:41,771 --> 00:47:43,164 I've been involved in except this one. 871 00:47:45,427 --> 00:47:47,690 Interviewer: What would your analysis have been? 872 00:47:50,171 --> 00:47:52,957 That the primary-- 873 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,872 the primary conclusion was... 874 00:47:56,830 --> 00:48:00,399 the explosive forces came from outside the airplane, 875 00:48:00,442 --> 00:48:02,401 not the center fuel tank. 876 00:48:02,444 --> 00:48:05,665 Stalcup: Would that statement have been in your analysis? 877 00:48:05,708 --> 00:48:08,842 If I got to write one. 878 00:48:08,886 --> 00:48:12,890 Let me tell you, this is an honest investigation 879 00:48:12,933 --> 00:48:16,545 and it is being conducted in an honest and open fashion. 880 00:48:17,851 --> 00:48:19,200 Traficant: I'd just like the panel 881 00:48:19,244 --> 00:48:20,985 to answer my questions yes or no. 882 00:48:21,028 --> 00:48:23,509 If you can't, I want you to say you can't answer it. 883 00:48:23,552 --> 00:48:25,119 First question, Mr. Hall. 884 00:48:25,163 --> 00:48:27,339 To this point, is there any physical evidence, 885 00:48:27,382 --> 00:48:29,602 conclusive forensic physical evidence, 886 00:48:29,645 --> 00:48:32,344 to prove that it was a mechanical failure 887 00:48:32,387 --> 00:48:36,174 that caused the explosion of the center fuel tank? 888 00:48:36,217 --> 00:48:37,915 Yes or no? 889 00:48:39,742 --> 00:48:41,962 No, but-- no, but we're looking at that. 890 00:48:42,006 --> 00:48:44,443 I want a one question answer. 891 00:48:44,486 --> 00:48:47,098 - I know this is tough. At this point-- - No. 892 00:48:47,141 --> 00:48:49,970 Mr. Kallstrom, 893 00:48:50,014 --> 00:48:54,322 were there in fact traces of PETN and RDX 894 00:48:54,366 --> 00:48:57,325 found in that plane wreckage? 895 00:48:57,369 --> 00:49:00,546 There were explosive chemicals found. 896 00:49:06,813 --> 00:49:11,296 Now, the FAA did a historical record search 897 00:49:11,339 --> 00:49:13,211 on the aircraft involved 898 00:49:13,254 --> 00:49:16,127 and found out that actually before the crash 899 00:49:16,170 --> 00:49:18,738 it was at St. Louis Airport overnight. 900 00:49:18,781 --> 00:49:21,262 We were told that in St. Louis 901 00:49:21,306 --> 00:49:24,962 a bomb-sniffing canine training session occurred 902 00:49:25,005 --> 00:49:28,008 where they left some residue 903 00:49:28,052 --> 00:49:31,185 by mistake of the explosives that the FBI had found. 904 00:49:31,229 --> 00:49:34,362 You know for sure that the dog was on that plane? 905 00:49:34,406 --> 00:49:36,756 Kallstrom: We know for sure. Well, we have the report 906 00:49:36,799 --> 00:49:38,758 that document the training. 907 00:49:38,801 --> 00:49:40,803 Very specifically document the training. 908 00:49:40,847 --> 00:49:43,719 Both Congressman Traficant and I 909 00:49:43,763 --> 00:49:46,809 would like sent to our offices immediately 910 00:49:46,853 --> 00:49:50,335 the documentation that shows the plane number. 911 00:49:50,378 --> 00:49:53,251 Stalcup: These are the documents the FBI supplied to Congress. 912 00:49:54,774 --> 00:49:56,210 The officer who conducted the exercise 913 00:49:56,254 --> 00:49:58,169 did not know the plane number, 914 00:49:58,212 --> 00:50:00,998 but testified he was on an empty plane. 915 00:50:01,041 --> 00:50:03,870 The plane that would later become flight 800 916 00:50:03,913 --> 00:50:06,786 left the gate fully boarded with more than 400 passengers 917 00:50:06,829 --> 00:50:08,396 at 12:35. 918 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,617 The officer finished the exercise at 12:00 noon. 919 00:50:11,660 --> 00:50:14,446 TWA regulations require the cabin crew 920 00:50:14,489 --> 00:50:16,883 to be on the plane an hour before departure. 921 00:50:16,926 --> 00:50:18,798 They would have been on this plane 922 00:50:18,841 --> 00:50:20,843 before the dog training exercise even began. 923 00:50:20,887 --> 00:50:23,368 So the exercise could not have happened on the plane 924 00:50:23,411 --> 00:50:26,675 that would become flight 800. 925 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,548 Was it conclusive that a dog 926 00:50:29,591 --> 00:50:31,680 - was on this plane that blew up? - Kallstrom: Yes. 927 00:50:39,514 --> 00:50:42,300 Stalcup: Flight 800 is just... 928 00:50:42,343 --> 00:50:44,302 a "fuck you" to the world. 929 00:50:44,345 --> 00:50:47,740 I mean, it's just-- it's just amazing. 930 00:50:49,655 --> 00:50:52,701 I think flight 800 is, you know, 931 00:50:52,745 --> 00:50:54,660 it's a watershed moment for this country. 932 00:50:54,703 --> 00:50:56,662 It was, "Wow. 933 00:50:56,705 --> 00:50:58,794 Look what we can really get away with." 934 00:50:58,838 --> 00:51:00,622 Even in the information age. 935 00:51:00,666 --> 00:51:02,537 Narrator: The CIA's conclusion-- 936 00:51:02,581 --> 00:51:05,410 the eyewitnesses did not see a missile. 937 00:51:05,453 --> 00:51:07,238 Interviewer: How do you feel about all this? 938 00:51:07,281 --> 00:51:08,935 Oh, it's terrible. 939 00:51:08,978 --> 00:51:12,286 First time I ever really distrusted my government. 940 00:51:12,330 --> 00:51:14,245 I... 941 00:51:14,288 --> 00:51:17,509 World War II, I couldn't wait to serve my country. 942 00:51:17,552 --> 00:51:21,252 And I stayed in the Navy Reserve. 943 00:51:21,295 --> 00:51:23,471 I believe in this country. 944 00:51:23,515 --> 00:51:27,345 And for that kind of cover-up 945 00:51:27,388 --> 00:51:30,522 to be tolerated, it makes me fighting mad. 946 00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:34,395 Wire: I always believed in the FBI, 947 00:51:34,439 --> 00:51:36,702 that they do a good job. 948 00:51:36,745 --> 00:51:38,095 Sometimes they have to bend some corners, 949 00:51:38,138 --> 00:51:40,227 but this is-- 950 00:51:40,271 --> 00:51:42,795 there's too much bending going on with this. 951 00:51:42,838 --> 00:51:45,232 I was very upset for a long time about this. 952 00:51:45,276 --> 00:51:48,017 Then I just kind of sat back and resigned to the fact 953 00:51:48,061 --> 00:51:50,237 that I could stand on my soapbox all day-- 954 00:51:50,281 --> 00:51:52,370 nobody's gonna listen to me, so... 955 00:51:52,413 --> 00:51:54,676 If somebody's interested in hearing what I have to say, I'll tell 'em. 956 00:51:57,201 --> 00:52:00,204 Hughes: I've been an investigator over 40 years 957 00:52:00,247 --> 00:52:03,381 and it was a one-of-a-kind experience 958 00:52:03,424 --> 00:52:06,688 that I wouldn't recommend anybody go through. 959 00:52:06,732 --> 00:52:09,126 As an American, I'm ashamed. 960 00:52:14,261 --> 00:52:16,307 Stalcup: The reason for me standing here today 961 00:52:16,350 --> 00:52:18,570 is to inform the news media and the public 962 00:52:18,613 --> 00:52:21,703 of an inexplicably flawed official investigation 963 00:52:21,747 --> 00:52:24,315 into our nation's worst air disaster. 964 00:52:24,358 --> 00:52:27,100 Stalcup: After the Baltimore hearing, 965 00:52:27,144 --> 00:52:30,495 I began researching the crash deeper and deeper. 966 00:52:30,538 --> 00:52:32,453 I called investigators involved directly, 967 00:52:32,497 --> 00:52:34,499 filed Freedom of Information Act requests, 968 00:52:34,542 --> 00:52:37,371 actually sued the CIA and the NTSB, 969 00:52:37,415 --> 00:52:40,853 I sued the FBI, and I analyzed thousands of pages of documents, 970 00:52:40,896 --> 00:52:43,508 reports, witness statements, radar data, 971 00:52:43,551 --> 00:52:46,380 and other documents pertaining to TWA 800. 972 00:53:13,102 --> 00:53:14,930 Two weeks before I graduated, 973 00:53:14,974 --> 00:53:17,324 I took out two student loans 974 00:53:17,368 --> 00:53:19,457 to fund a vacation. 975 00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:21,154 Interviewer: Where'd you go? 976 00:53:21,198 --> 00:53:23,678 Stalcup: I went back to Cape Cod. 977 00:53:23,722 --> 00:53:25,332 Interviewer: That's a vacation? That's home. 978 00:53:25,376 --> 00:53:27,247 I did not want to go-- 979 00:53:27,291 --> 00:53:30,250 vacation meaning not going directly to work anywhere. 980 00:53:30,294 --> 00:53:33,079 I was getting my doctorate in physics 981 00:53:33,122 --> 00:53:36,343 while at the same time being a citizen researcher. 982 00:53:36,387 --> 00:53:39,041 I was so burned out. I needed to just... 983 00:53:39,085 --> 00:53:41,348 not do anything. 984 00:53:41,392 --> 00:53:43,698 Interviewer: And how long did you not do anything? 985 00:53:43,742 --> 00:53:44,917 Stalcup: Well, not doing anything means 986 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,268 I did flight 800 100% of the time. 987 00:53:51,532 --> 00:53:55,188 Eventually I really got frustrated by the media's inaccurate reporting 988 00:53:55,232 --> 00:53:58,147 and by reporters ignoring the facts of the case. 989 00:53:58,191 --> 00:54:00,976 I decided to get in touch with Hank Hughes, 990 00:54:01,020 --> 00:54:03,805 Bob Young, Jim Speer, 991 00:54:03,849 --> 00:54:05,590 and other insiders who had the courage 992 00:54:05,633 --> 00:54:08,941 to come out and speak publically about their experience. 993 00:54:10,595 --> 00:54:12,597 And to make this documentary 994 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,556 to present our evidence and to show how the government 995 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,558 handled the investigation. 996 00:54:19,212 --> 00:54:21,301 Interviewer: Why should the audience 997 00:54:21,345 --> 00:54:22,868 believe you? 998 00:54:22,911 --> 00:54:25,218 I mean, who are you to be doing this? 999 00:54:27,916 --> 00:54:30,092 Why should the audience believe me? 1000 00:54:30,136 --> 00:54:32,356 Don't believe me. I don't want the audience to believe me. 1001 00:54:32,399 --> 00:54:34,358 I want them to look at the evidence 1002 00:54:34,401 --> 00:54:36,316 and see what it says. 1003 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,362 I think the most telling piece of evidence 1004 00:54:38,405 --> 00:54:40,538 is the splatter that we found on top of the center wing tank. 1005 00:54:43,715 --> 00:54:46,283 Stalcup: There was a splatter pattern. 1006 00:54:46,326 --> 00:54:48,720 A pattern of material that was deposited 1007 00:54:48,763 --> 00:54:51,244 in the top of the center wing fuel tank. 1008 00:54:51,288 --> 00:54:53,507 When the center wing fuel tank broke apart, 1009 00:54:53,551 --> 00:54:56,031 they pieced it back together again when they brought it back from the ocean. 1010 00:54:56,075 --> 00:54:58,469 They matched it up just like a jigsaw puzzle 1011 00:54:58,512 --> 00:55:00,732 and found this splatter pattern. 1012 00:55:00,775 --> 00:55:03,387 It was continuous across the fracture line 1013 00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:04,953 of the center wing tank, 1014 00:55:04,997 --> 00:55:06,868 but it was not found on the fracture's surface. 1015 00:55:06,912 --> 00:55:09,393 And this shows that it was deposited 1016 00:55:09,436 --> 00:55:11,743 prior to the center wing tank exploding. 1017 00:55:11,786 --> 00:55:14,572 Birky: We really never could identify 1018 00:55:14,615 --> 00:55:17,009 what that splatter pattern was from. 1019 00:55:17,052 --> 00:55:20,229 Stalcup: Really? It wasn't from anything that melted on the aircraft? 1020 00:55:22,710 --> 00:55:25,800 Well, it could have been something that was melted on the aircraft 1021 00:55:25,844 --> 00:55:29,151 because it went through a fiery-- a fireball. 1022 00:55:29,195 --> 00:55:32,633 Stalcup: But this material was deposited before the fireball. 1023 00:55:32,677 --> 00:55:35,680 Well... 1024 00:55:37,725 --> 00:55:41,425 there's some evidence that that might be the case. 1025 00:55:41,468 --> 00:55:43,296 Stalcup: Who is responsible for deciding 1026 00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:44,950 what potential evidence would be examined? 1027 00:55:44,993 --> 00:55:46,865 I was. 1028 00:55:46,908 --> 00:55:50,303 Were you aware of something called a splatter pattern 1029 00:55:50,347 --> 00:55:53,393 on top of the center wing tank? 1030 00:55:53,437 --> 00:55:55,134 No. 1031 00:55:55,177 --> 00:55:58,529 This splatter crossed the fracture boundaries. 1032 00:56:00,313 --> 00:56:02,228 Okay, but what is a splatter pattern? 1033 00:56:02,271 --> 00:56:04,796 It's a melted material. 1034 00:56:04,839 --> 00:56:06,624 The NTSB didn't share this with you? 1035 00:56:06,667 --> 00:56:08,713 I've never-- no. 1036 00:56:08,756 --> 00:56:10,584 I've never seen that. Never heard of that. 1037 00:56:10,628 --> 00:56:13,587 One person that should have known about this that didn't was me. 1038 00:56:13,631 --> 00:56:15,546 If I had heard at the time, 1039 00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:18,113 I would try and get some of the samples 1040 00:56:18,157 --> 00:56:19,680 of the residue and have it analyzed. 1041 00:56:21,421 --> 00:56:23,771 Stalcup: You sent a sample 1042 00:56:23,815 --> 00:56:26,339 from the top surface of the tank of that splatter pattern 1043 00:56:26,383 --> 00:56:28,646 down to NASA for testing. 1044 00:56:28,689 --> 00:56:32,432 Why would he send it down to NASA? 1045 00:56:32,476 --> 00:56:34,695 There was an instrument right there. 1046 00:56:34,739 --> 00:56:37,176 He already had the capability on the scene. 1047 00:56:37,219 --> 00:56:39,918 There was no reason, if you were looking for military explosives, 1048 00:56:39,961 --> 00:56:42,311 to send it down to NASA. 1049 00:56:42,355 --> 00:56:44,357 Stalcup: One of the persons that did the analysis 1050 00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:46,577 of the residue was a guy named Charlie Bassett down at NASA. 1051 00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:48,753 And that was another three- or four-hour, 1052 00:56:48,796 --> 00:56:51,190 maybe six-hour drive from where I was at. 1053 00:56:51,233 --> 00:56:53,366 So I drove down there to talk to him about that. 1054 00:56:53,410 --> 00:56:56,413 And he ended up saying, "Did you hear about my nitrates report?" 1055 00:56:56,456 --> 00:56:59,241 And I said, "What do you mean? You found nitrates in the wreckage?" 1056 00:56:59,285 --> 00:57:00,504 He said, "Sure, I did." 1057 00:57:00,547 --> 00:57:02,854 So he gave me a copy of the report. 1058 00:57:02,897 --> 00:57:05,813 NASA sent back a report giving them information 1059 00:57:05,857 --> 00:57:07,293 that there was nitrates in that splatter. 1060 00:57:07,336 --> 00:57:09,513 That's very interesting. 1061 00:57:09,556 --> 00:57:12,080 - You didn't know that? - No. 1062 00:57:12,124 --> 00:57:15,388 Stalcup: And the report that came back from Charlie Bassett-- 1063 00:57:15,432 --> 00:57:18,652 in the splatter pattern, he detected nitrates. 1064 00:57:23,831 --> 00:57:26,921 I can't remember that at this point. 1065 00:57:26,965 --> 00:57:29,533 You don't remember that nitrates were detected? 1066 00:57:29,576 --> 00:57:31,883 No, I don't remember that. 1067 00:57:31,926 --> 00:57:33,667 I'll have to go back and look at the reports 1068 00:57:33,711 --> 00:57:35,539 if I have them anymore. I don't know. 1069 00:57:35,582 --> 00:57:37,584 Stalcup: Actually, I had the report with me 1070 00:57:37,628 --> 00:57:39,978 and I gave it to Dr. Birky to review. 1071 00:57:41,893 --> 00:57:44,591 So, these tests 1072 00:57:44,635 --> 00:57:47,159 did not identify uniquely 1073 00:57:47,202 --> 00:57:50,205 whether it was-- what the source was. 1074 00:57:50,249 --> 00:57:55,123 It only tells you that there's nitrates there. 1075 00:57:55,167 --> 00:57:57,386 Stalcup: They have this evidence that something melted 1076 00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:59,911 on the center wing fuel tank before it broke to pieces. 1077 00:57:59,954 --> 00:58:03,523 It basically by itself proves that their theory is wrong. 1078 00:58:03,567 --> 00:58:06,091 But they stopped requesting further examination of that piece. 1079 00:58:06,134 --> 00:58:08,920 Nitrates could come from a number of different sources. 1080 00:58:08,963 --> 00:58:11,357 I mean, nitrates by themselves don't mean anything. 1081 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,142 You see, I didn't consider 1082 00:58:14,186 --> 00:58:18,190 the nitrates sufficient to identify 1083 00:58:18,233 --> 00:58:19,670 an explosive device. 1084 00:58:19,713 --> 00:58:22,150 You needed further testing to do that? 1085 00:58:22,194 --> 00:58:25,023 - Pardon? - It would have required further testing? 1086 00:58:25,066 --> 00:58:28,200 It would have required significant further testing. 1087 00:58:28,243 --> 00:58:30,463 That's correct. 1088 00:58:30,507 --> 00:58:33,031 And that testing was never done? 1089 00:58:37,122 --> 00:58:39,385 Well, I don't-- no, it was never done. 1090 00:58:39,428 --> 00:58:43,476 A nitrate doesn't-- in my estimation, 1091 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,697 my judgment, doesn't prove an explosive device. 1092 00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:49,961 I mean, you can get nitrates from many things. 1093 00:58:50,004 --> 00:58:53,660 But you just said you didn't order the follow-up testing. 1094 00:58:53,704 --> 00:58:56,402 - No, I didn't. - Why? 1095 00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,494 I don't have a recollection of why 1096 00:59:01,538 --> 00:59:03,801 other than to say that... 1097 00:59:03,844 --> 00:59:05,106 we didn't do it. 1098 00:59:07,108 --> 00:59:10,982 People watching might think that that's suspicious. 1099 00:59:11,025 --> 00:59:15,421 Well, I'm sure they could say that. 1100 00:59:15,464 --> 00:59:17,771 They would have felt that. 1101 00:59:17,815 --> 00:59:20,600 My argument is 1102 00:59:20,644 --> 00:59:23,734 the follow-up testing that needed to be done wasn't. 1103 00:59:25,823 --> 00:59:29,740 I can only answer by saying 1104 00:59:29,783 --> 00:59:32,525 that you're right, it was not done. 1105 00:59:32,569 --> 00:59:34,614 Um... 1106 00:59:34,658 --> 00:59:37,486 should more analytical work been done? 1107 00:59:37,530 --> 00:59:40,098 Well, that's-- 1108 00:59:40,141 --> 00:59:42,100 that would be appropriate. 1109 00:59:43,667 --> 00:59:45,451 Hall: We do everything we can. 1110 00:59:45,494 --> 00:59:49,411 It's our responsibility to do this in a professional, 1111 00:59:49,455 --> 00:59:53,241 thorough, and methodical way. 1112 00:59:55,113 --> 00:59:56,810 Stalcup: In their own animation, 1113 00:59:56,854 --> 00:59:59,378 the NTSB amended the CIA's version 1114 00:59:59,421 --> 01:00:01,162 by showing the plane turning to the left 1115 01:00:01,206 --> 01:00:03,382 before the climb. 1116 01:00:03,425 --> 01:00:05,732 But the NTSB's theory for what caused the crash 1117 01:00:05,776 --> 01:00:07,691 has no explanation for that left turn. 1118 01:00:10,868 --> 01:00:12,870 Stalcup: What about the left wing? 1119 01:00:12,913 --> 01:00:14,436 Do you remember any damage to the left wing 1120 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,221 that was interesting? 1121 01:00:16,264 --> 01:00:19,093 The left wing? No. That was different than the right wing? 1122 01:00:19,137 --> 01:00:21,792 Stalcup: The upper surface of the left wing 1123 01:00:21,835 --> 01:00:24,446 was shattered, but the right wing's upper surface wasn't. 1124 01:00:24,490 --> 01:00:25,839 It looks like-- I mean, you've got 1125 01:00:25,883 --> 01:00:28,712 decimation of the upper skin of the left wing, 1126 01:00:28,755 --> 01:00:30,583 but essentially nothing on the right. 1127 01:00:32,629 --> 01:00:34,631 Stalcup: The wings were carrying all of the plane's fuel 1128 01:00:34,674 --> 01:00:36,197 for its trip to Paris. 1129 01:00:36,241 --> 01:00:38,243 The NTSB says that when the left wing 1130 01:00:38,286 --> 01:00:40,680 impacted the ocean, the fuel in side the wing 1131 01:00:40,724 --> 01:00:42,987 was pressurized, causing it to burst. 1132 01:00:48,862 --> 01:00:51,343 Stalcup: But in their own animations, 1133 01:00:51,386 --> 01:00:54,694 the government shows the left wing breaking off on the air. 1134 01:00:54,738 --> 01:00:57,436 Narrator: Its left wing separated from the fuselage, 1135 01:00:57,479 --> 01:01:00,091 releasing unburned fuel. 1136 01:01:00,134 --> 01:01:02,441 Stalcup: With the wing broken off and no longer sealed, 1137 01:01:02,484 --> 01:01:04,661 with much of the fuel gone 1138 01:01:04,704 --> 01:01:06,880 and no longer evenly distributed throughout the wing, 1139 01:01:06,924 --> 01:01:09,491 on impact with the ocean, you're not gonna get 1140 01:01:09,535 --> 01:01:11,102 the hydraulic forces you need 1141 01:01:11,145 --> 01:01:14,279 to shatter the wing the way it did. 1142 01:01:14,322 --> 01:01:17,021 But at level flight with the wings full of fuel, 1143 01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:19,980 if you introduced high energy into that liquid, 1144 01:01:20,024 --> 01:01:21,808 you can get the hydraulic forces you need 1145 01:01:21,852 --> 01:01:24,071 to shatter that wing. 1146 01:01:24,115 --> 01:01:26,987 There would be a reduction of lift on that left wing. 1147 01:01:27,031 --> 01:01:30,121 The right wing, undamaged, would have its full lift. 1148 01:01:30,164 --> 01:01:33,733 And that is what would explain the left turn. 1149 01:01:33,777 --> 01:01:35,692 Witness: It seemed like the aircraft turned. 1150 01:01:35,735 --> 01:01:37,781 I could see the flash of the wing 1151 01:01:37,824 --> 01:01:40,740 'cause the sun was behind me setting out here. 1152 01:01:40,784 --> 01:01:43,438 Stalcup: There were eyewitnesses who saw the plane banking. 1153 01:01:43,482 --> 01:01:45,397 One eyewitness was in a boat and they thought it was gonna hit them. 1154 01:01:47,138 --> 01:01:50,358 Now, if the left wing did shatter first, 1155 01:01:50,402 --> 01:01:52,883 you would expect to find left wing debris 1156 01:01:52,926 --> 01:01:55,276 in the red zone, 1157 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,931 the earliest debris field closest to JFK Airport. 1158 01:01:59,803 --> 01:02:01,500 There was left wing debris 1159 01:02:01,543 --> 01:02:03,632 in the earliest debris field closest to JFK Airport. 1160 01:02:09,769 --> 01:02:12,032 Parallel to the horizon 1161 01:02:12,076 --> 01:02:15,079 was a cigar-shaped cloud. A long cigar-shaped cloud. 1162 01:02:15,122 --> 01:02:18,343 Stalcup: If powerful energy were introduced to the left wing 1163 01:02:18,386 --> 01:02:20,171 before it broke off, 1164 01:02:20,214 --> 01:02:22,869 fuel would spray out and immediately vaporize, 1165 01:02:22,913 --> 01:02:25,785 creating a cloud of white vapor behind the plane. 1166 01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:27,526 Stalcup: What color was the cigar-shaped cloud? 1167 01:02:27,569 --> 01:02:29,658 - White. - It was this white poof. 1168 01:02:29,702 --> 01:02:31,922 Like a crystally white poof. 1169 01:02:31,965 --> 01:02:33,314 A huge white ball. 1170 01:02:33,358 --> 01:02:34,968 A white phosphorus explosion. 1171 01:02:38,755 --> 01:02:40,582 Stalcup: I wanted to see for myself 1172 01:02:40,626 --> 01:02:42,323 if high explosives could have caused 1173 01:02:42,367 --> 01:02:43,803 that left wing shatter pattern. 1174 01:02:45,892 --> 01:02:48,590 So I sealed a piece of 747 wing 1175 01:02:48,634 --> 01:02:51,332 over a container 75% filled with liquid 1176 01:02:51,376 --> 01:02:53,595 just like the left wing was. 1177 01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:56,381 Then I put a quarter pound of TNT into the container 1178 01:02:56,424 --> 01:02:59,210 and blew it up. 1179 01:02:59,253 --> 01:03:01,342 Misted liquid blew out of the container 1180 01:03:01,386 --> 01:03:05,129 just like the misted fuel blew out of the left wing. 1181 01:03:05,172 --> 01:03:07,305 Let's go look for some pieces. 1182 01:03:07,348 --> 01:03:09,611 Man: I know I saw two more go over the trees. 1183 01:03:09,655 --> 01:03:11,788 - In there someplace. - Really? That far? 1184 01:03:11,831 --> 01:03:13,615 - Yeah. - It's right here. 1185 01:03:13,659 --> 01:03:15,400 Rivets sheared off. 1186 01:03:15,443 --> 01:03:16,923 Almost every rivet on the upper surface 1187 01:03:16,967 --> 01:03:19,621 of the left wing was sheared away. 1188 01:03:19,665 --> 01:03:23,408 We have the same fractures that we have pictures of from the wreckage. 1189 01:03:23,451 --> 01:03:25,453 This fracture right here is just like 1190 01:03:25,497 --> 01:03:26,628 the fracture that we see on the wreckage. 1191 01:03:26,672 --> 01:03:28,500 This fracture right here 1192 01:03:28,543 --> 01:03:29,849 is almost identical to fractures 1193 01:03:29,893 --> 01:03:31,416 that are found on the accident aircraft. 1194 01:03:31,459 --> 01:03:33,853 We have pictures of the wreckage that look just like this. 1195 01:03:33,897 --> 01:03:36,856 Yeah, it appears we replicated the damage from the accident aircraft. 1196 01:03:40,381 --> 01:03:42,601 Stalcup: And one more thing about that left turn 1197 01:03:42,644 --> 01:03:45,604 caused by the shattered left wing-- 1198 01:03:45,647 --> 01:03:49,695 you can clearly see it on radar. 1199 01:03:49,738 --> 01:03:52,916 Thanks to Captain Ray Lahr, who sued the CIA, 1200 01:03:52,959 --> 01:03:56,136 we now have the NTSB's own simulation software. 1201 01:03:56,180 --> 01:03:59,226 You see these blue triangles and green squares? 1202 01:03:59,270 --> 01:04:02,708 That's where the plane was according to two separate radar sites. 1203 01:04:02,751 --> 01:04:04,536 And as you can see here, the NTSB simulations 1204 01:04:04,579 --> 01:04:06,538 aren't going through those triangles and squares. 1205 01:04:06,581 --> 01:04:08,322 So they're wrong. 1206 01:04:08,366 --> 01:04:10,890 If it doesn't fit the radar data, it's not what happened. 1207 01:04:10,934 --> 01:04:12,500 This is showing the climb. 1208 01:04:12,544 --> 01:04:15,242 And this is exactly when they're not matching radar data. 1209 01:04:15,286 --> 01:04:17,897 So this climb is itself invalid. 1210 01:04:17,941 --> 01:04:20,030 What really happened to the aircraft is this. 1211 01:04:22,684 --> 01:04:24,643 When you fit it to the radar data, 1212 01:04:24,686 --> 01:04:26,732 there is no climb. 1213 01:04:30,344 --> 01:04:31,737 [ radio chatter ] 1214 01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:53,063 Hughes: Typically, you'll see a damage pattern 1215 01:04:53,106 --> 01:04:55,152 which will correlate with the injuries. 1216 01:04:55,195 --> 01:04:57,763 The center fuel tank blowing up 1217 01:04:57,806 --> 01:05:00,331 or an explosive device inside of the airplane 1218 01:05:00,374 --> 01:05:02,333 would have caused a burn pattern 1219 01:05:02,376 --> 01:05:04,204 that would have emanated from one area 1220 01:05:04,248 --> 01:05:06,598 and progressed in a direction away from where 1221 01:05:06,641 --> 01:05:08,382 the explosion originated. 1222 01:05:08,426 --> 01:05:11,255 In the instance of TWA flight 800, 1223 01:05:11,298 --> 01:05:13,779 there's no such correlation. 1224 01:05:13,822 --> 01:05:15,955 From front to back and right to left, 1225 01:05:15,999 --> 01:05:19,611 the injury patterns were completely atypical. 1226 01:05:19,654 --> 01:05:22,396 One person might have been severely burned, 1227 01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,095 the person sitting next to them didn't have a mark on their body, 1228 01:05:25,138 --> 01:05:27,532 and the person sitting next to them may have 1229 01:05:27,575 --> 01:05:29,708 been completely destroyed. 1230 01:05:29,751 --> 01:05:32,319 How do you account for absolutely no patterns? 1231 01:05:32,363 --> 01:05:36,236 We saw nothing where, for example, 1232 01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,412 those in the vicinity of the center fuel tank 1233 01:05:38,456 --> 01:05:42,242 would have more damage than those seated elsewhere on the airplane. 1234 01:05:42,286 --> 01:05:45,506 Shanahan: Many of the passengers were ejected from their seats 1235 01:05:45,550 --> 01:05:46,986 at some point during the crash. 1236 01:05:47,030 --> 01:05:50,076 You could look at seats that had fire damage 1237 01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,253 and see if the individuals who were supposedly sitting there 1238 01:05:53,297 --> 01:05:55,125 also had fire damage. 1239 01:05:55,168 --> 01:05:58,563 And in many cases we found out that they did not. 1240 01:05:58,606 --> 01:06:01,348 That tells me that the passenger 1241 01:06:01,392 --> 01:06:04,612 had left that seat prior to the time that the fire 1242 01:06:04,656 --> 01:06:06,440 had spread into the cabin. 1243 01:06:06,484 --> 01:06:10,096 To give you an idea of the crash, this is sometime in mid-August. 1244 01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:13,491 I walked down to the water and I see a piece of the plane laying there 1245 01:06:13,534 --> 01:06:16,450 and I said, "What's going on? Plane parts are supposed to go to Calverton, not here." 1246 01:06:16,494 --> 01:06:19,236 And when you look a little bit closer, you can see 1247 01:06:19,279 --> 01:06:23,022 a bone which has been shot like an arrow right through the fuselage of that plane. 1248 01:06:23,066 --> 01:06:25,764 This, I think, is something that wasn't appreciated by a lot of people, 1249 01:06:25,807 --> 01:06:27,679 the tremendous forces involved here. 1250 01:06:27,722 --> 01:06:30,899 Hughes: The damage to the seats 1251 01:06:30,943 --> 01:06:33,337 and the injuries to the passengers was random, 1252 01:06:33,380 --> 01:06:36,166 which in my mind indicates 1253 01:06:36,209 --> 01:06:38,559 a high ordnance detonation, 1254 01:06:38,603 --> 01:06:40,953 not a low-speed explosion 1255 01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:42,694 like a center fuel tank blowing up. 1256 01:06:42,737 --> 01:06:45,479 - A high-speed explosion. - Stalcup: Where? 1257 01:06:45,523 --> 01:06:48,091 Well, given the fact that we found no point 1258 01:06:48,134 --> 01:06:51,529 from which it emanated, I think it was external to the aircraft. 1259 01:06:57,056 --> 01:06:59,493 Young: April of 2000, 1260 01:06:59,537 --> 01:07:02,322 the NTSB decided that they would go down 1261 01:07:02,366 --> 01:07:03,976 to Eglin Air Force Base 1262 01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:07,675 and shoot Stingers, flares, and fireworks. 1263 01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,416 And they would put witnesses on the ground 1264 01:07:09,460 --> 01:07:11,418 in different locations 1265 01:07:11,462 --> 01:07:13,464 at various distances from the launch point. 1266 01:07:13,507 --> 01:07:15,683 And basically, the theory was 1267 01:07:15,727 --> 01:07:18,121 that when they do this, 1268 01:07:18,164 --> 01:07:20,514 the witnesses would be so at odds 1269 01:07:20,558 --> 01:07:24,170 at what the eyewitnesses claimed, 1270 01:07:24,214 --> 01:07:26,346 it would prove conclusively 1271 01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:29,262 that the eyewitnesses didn't know what they were talking about 1272 01:07:29,306 --> 01:07:31,699 and therefore it could be brought up 1273 01:07:31,743 --> 01:07:33,701 to refute the eyewitnesses at the final hearing. 1274 01:07:33,745 --> 01:07:34,746 Guess what? 1275 01:07:46,323 --> 01:07:48,673 They had a missile visibility test 1276 01:07:48,716 --> 01:07:50,849 and it was on the nightly news 1277 01:07:50,892 --> 01:07:52,590 and I happened to see it that night. 1278 01:07:52,633 --> 01:07:55,723 The missile launch was very similar 1279 01:07:55,767 --> 01:07:57,508 to what I saw out here. 1280 01:07:57,551 --> 01:07:59,771 It matched pretty identical to it. 1281 01:08:01,816 --> 01:08:03,644 Stalcup: Here's an example of how the US media 1282 01:08:03,688 --> 01:08:05,559 covered the missile visibility tests. 1283 01:08:05,603 --> 01:08:07,735 Government investigators have confirmed tonight 1284 01:08:07,779 --> 01:08:09,563 that the Army recently conducted 1285 01:08:09,607 --> 01:08:11,130 some dramatic tests 1286 01:08:11,174 --> 01:08:13,611 to disprove once and for all 1287 01:08:13,654 --> 01:08:15,569 whether or not a missile attack was responsible 1288 01:08:15,613 --> 01:08:18,833 for the explosion of TWA flight 800. 1289 01:08:18,877 --> 01:08:20,966 Stalcup: Actually, according to the official report, 1290 01:08:21,009 --> 01:08:23,186 the test was done to determine how far away 1291 01:08:23,229 --> 01:08:25,318 a witness could be and still see a missile. 1292 01:08:25,362 --> 01:08:26,841 Here's NBC's Robert Hager. 1293 01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,237 Stalcup: The report starts off with a visual cue 1294 01:08:31,281 --> 01:08:34,545 to remind viewers to connect missiles with conspiracy theories. 1295 01:08:34,588 --> 01:08:37,809 Hager: Three times Army contractors fire Stinger missiles 1296 01:08:37,852 --> 01:08:42,205 similar to this as NTSB investigators watch below. 1297 01:08:42,248 --> 01:08:44,207 Investigators did not stage the test 1298 01:08:44,250 --> 01:08:47,558 because they seriously believe a missile caused the TWA crash. 1299 01:08:47,601 --> 01:08:49,473 In fact, they're certain it was not a missile. 1300 01:08:49,516 --> 01:08:51,953 Stalcup: Now pay close attention to what he says next. 1301 01:08:51,997 --> 01:08:54,217 But they do feel it's important for the record 1302 01:08:54,260 --> 01:08:56,741 to match what they were able to see in the test 1303 01:08:56,784 --> 01:09:00,266 with what some eyewitnesses believe they saw off Long Island. 1304 01:09:00,310 --> 01:09:03,182 Stalcup: If they're so certain that a missile didn't cause the crash, 1305 01:09:03,226 --> 01:09:05,532 why would they have to match what the flight 800 witnesses 1306 01:09:05,576 --> 01:09:07,404 believe they saw with the missiles 1307 01:09:07,447 --> 01:09:10,320 the eyewitnesses actually saw during the test in Florida? 1308 01:09:10,363 --> 01:09:13,497 Hager: Eyewitnesses like Vietnam vet Fred Meyer 1309 01:09:13,540 --> 01:09:15,151 who was in a helicopter that night. 1310 01:09:15,194 --> 01:09:17,196 I followed the streak of light 1311 01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,416 red/orange in color, 1312 01:09:19,459 --> 01:09:22,201 moving from my left center to my further left. 1313 01:09:22,245 --> 01:09:25,987 Hager: Meyer says then he saw explosions similar to this. 1314 01:09:26,031 --> 01:09:28,860 Stalcup: Actually, this, the plane descending in a fireball, 1315 01:09:28,903 --> 01:09:31,863 is not what he saw next. What he saw next was... 1316 01:09:31,906 --> 01:09:33,778 I saw an explosion. 1317 01:09:33,821 --> 01:09:36,737 And the explosion was on the trajectory 1318 01:09:36,781 --> 01:09:38,609 of the streak of light I had been following. 1319 01:09:38,652 --> 01:09:40,524 Stalcup: The descending fireball 1320 01:09:40,567 --> 01:09:42,308 was the last thing Major Meyer saw. 1321 01:09:42,352 --> 01:09:45,050 Hager: Why are investigators sure it wasn't a missile? 1322 01:09:45,093 --> 01:09:46,965 It's this reconstruction. 1323 01:09:47,008 --> 01:09:49,968 No residue of any missile explosives. None. 1324 01:09:50,011 --> 01:09:51,535 Stalcup: This is false. 1325 01:09:51,578 --> 01:09:53,058 Government investigators did report 1326 01:09:53,101 --> 01:09:55,321 finding explosive residues on the plane. 1327 01:09:55,365 --> 01:09:58,106 Hager: Instead, a pattern of twisted metal 1328 01:09:58,150 --> 01:10:00,587 that shows the explosion that did bring the plane down 1329 01:10:00,631 --> 01:10:03,547 originated here in the center fuel tank. 1330 01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:05,375 Stalcup: And this is also false. 1331 01:10:05,418 --> 01:10:07,899 There is no evidence confirming that the explosion 1332 01:10:07,942 --> 01:10:10,945 that brought down the plane originated in the center fuel tank. 1333 01:10:10,989 --> 01:10:13,818 Hager: And no continuous holes in a straight line 1334 01:10:13,861 --> 01:10:16,168 through the wreckage, which would have had to have been left 1335 01:10:16,212 --> 01:10:18,214 if a missile penetrated. 1336 01:10:18,257 --> 01:10:21,260 Stalcup: Not if it were a proximity fuse missile 1337 01:10:21,304 --> 01:10:24,829 that does not penetrate, but explodes nearby. 1338 01:10:24,872 --> 01:10:27,614 This and many other media reports 1339 01:10:27,658 --> 01:10:31,357 persistently focused on missiles that could penetrate the plane. 1340 01:10:31,401 --> 01:10:34,055 Hager: So investigators believe what eyewitnesses saw 1341 01:10:34,099 --> 01:10:36,536 was the trail of fire left in the sky 1342 01:10:36,580 --> 01:10:38,625 by the falling plane itself. 1343 01:10:38,669 --> 01:10:40,975 Stalcup: Well before seeing this descending fireball, 1344 01:10:41,019 --> 01:10:43,587 many witnesses reported seeing an object rise up 1345 01:10:43,630 --> 01:10:45,023 off the surface. 1346 01:10:45,066 --> 01:10:46,546 Hager: What investigators really believe 1347 01:10:46,590 --> 01:10:48,331 is that the fuel tank exploded 1348 01:10:48,374 --> 01:10:49,636 because of an electrical short 1349 01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,421 or some other mechanical problem. 1350 01:10:51,464 --> 01:10:52,944 Stalcup: What investigators? 1351 01:10:52,987 --> 01:10:55,033 No ignition source was ever confirmed. 1352 01:10:55,076 --> 01:10:57,035 And what other mechanical problems? 1353 01:10:57,078 --> 01:10:59,298 The reporter provides no details. 1354 01:10:59,342 --> 01:11:01,866 Hager: And nothing they observed in the new missile tests 1355 01:11:01,909 --> 01:11:03,911 has changed their minds. 1356 01:11:03,955 --> 01:11:06,827 Stalcup: But he never reports the results of the tests. 1357 01:11:06,871 --> 01:11:09,134 The results that showed that all observers 1358 01:11:09,177 --> 01:11:11,615 easily saw the missile. 1359 01:11:11,658 --> 01:11:13,617 Hager: Robert Hager, "NBC News," Washington. 1360 01:11:21,494 --> 01:11:23,496 Frank Hilldrup: What about detonation at some distance? 1361 01:11:23,540 --> 01:11:25,672 Perhaps a self-destruct scenario? 1362 01:11:25,716 --> 01:11:29,546 It's possible that several types of missiles 1363 01:11:29,589 --> 01:11:33,376 could have been in the vicinity of TWA flight 800 1364 01:11:33,419 --> 01:11:37,510 at the time of the mishap. 1365 01:11:37,554 --> 01:11:41,514 But the possibility that that occurred 1366 01:11:41,558 --> 01:11:45,736 is hard to imagine. 1367 01:11:52,177 --> 01:11:54,005 Stalcup: Did you ever look at my analysis 1368 01:11:54,048 --> 01:11:55,528 of the radar information 1369 01:11:55,572 --> 01:11:57,095 that actually showed some evidence 1370 01:11:57,138 --> 01:11:58,923 of a high-energy explosion on radar? 1371 01:11:58,966 --> 01:12:00,968 Yes. 1372 01:12:01,012 --> 01:12:03,536 Stalcup: Since it happened so close to shore 1373 01:12:03,580 --> 01:12:06,060 and miles off of Long Island 1374 01:12:06,104 --> 01:12:07,845 in a very busy air corridor, 1375 01:12:07,888 --> 01:12:09,368 there are several FAA radar sites 1376 01:12:09,412 --> 01:12:11,152 that recorded the crash. 1377 01:12:11,196 --> 01:12:16,114 Man: The field to the left is consistent with the explosion. 1378 01:12:16,157 --> 01:12:18,072 Stalcup: At the Baltimore hearing, 1379 01:12:18,116 --> 01:12:20,988 they showed this radar image which shows 20 minutes of debris 1380 01:12:21,032 --> 01:12:24,122 drifting with the wind after the plane explodes. 1381 01:12:24,165 --> 01:12:27,212 But what they didn't talk about in their presentation 1382 01:12:27,255 --> 01:12:29,214 is this-- 1383 01:12:29,257 --> 01:12:33,044 the first few seconds after the plane lost electrical power. 1384 01:12:39,964 --> 01:12:42,488 The radar shows debris flying away from the plane 1385 01:12:42,532 --> 01:12:46,231 at a speed of at least Mach 4, 1386 01:12:46,274 --> 01:12:49,495 which is four times the speed of sound. 1387 01:12:49,539 --> 01:12:52,324 No detonation velocity lower than Mach 4 fit the data very well. 1388 01:12:52,368 --> 01:12:54,674 So, yeah. 1389 01:12:54,718 --> 01:12:57,416 That explosion of the center wing fuel tank 1390 01:12:57,460 --> 01:12:59,897 they determined was a low-velocity explosion, 1391 01:12:59,940 --> 01:13:03,030 meaning that it went slower than the speed of sound. 1392 01:13:03,074 --> 01:13:06,207 So any wreckage that is shown going faster than the speed of sound 1393 01:13:06,251 --> 01:13:08,384 could not have come from that explosion. 1394 01:13:08,427 --> 01:13:10,560 And so any high-speed debris that came out, 1395 01:13:10,603 --> 01:13:12,605 which we calculated at Mach 4, 1396 01:13:12,649 --> 01:13:15,826 definitely was not from the center wing tank explosion. 1397 01:13:15,869 --> 01:13:18,655 It couldn't have been. And that's what disproves this case. 1398 01:13:18,698 --> 01:13:20,047 I mean, that is the smoking gun. 1399 01:13:23,486 --> 01:13:26,010 Missiles are rounded-- have rounded surfaces 1400 01:13:26,053 --> 01:13:27,403 and, like stealth fighters, 1401 01:13:27,446 --> 01:13:29,230 do not give a very good signature. 1402 01:13:29,274 --> 01:13:31,711 However, once a missile explodes, 1403 01:13:31,755 --> 01:13:33,931 it's a bright light. 1404 01:13:33,974 --> 01:13:37,456 You throw up confetti at night and you shine a flashlight, you're gonna see it. 1405 01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:40,503 And that's what this was, a bunch of confetti moving at Mach 4. 1406 01:13:46,465 --> 01:13:49,381 Shanahan: You're looking at 3,000 miles an hour as the initial velocity. 1407 01:13:49,425 --> 01:13:51,992 - Somewhere in that range? - Probably greater than that. 1408 01:13:52,036 --> 01:13:54,125 - But, yeah. At least, yeah. - Okay. 1409 01:13:54,168 --> 01:13:56,432 Huh. 1410 01:13:56,475 --> 01:13:58,390 That's pretty high explosive. 1411 01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:04,962 It certainly smells like a missile 1412 01:14:05,005 --> 01:14:07,051 when you look at those findings. 1413 01:14:07,094 --> 01:14:09,880 When you see this kind of information, 1414 01:14:09,923 --> 01:14:12,578 you have to say, "It's a missile 1415 01:14:12,622 --> 01:14:15,668 and let's prove that it wasn't." 1416 01:14:15,712 --> 01:14:18,932 And I don't see any evidence that anybody attempted 1417 01:14:18,976 --> 01:14:20,978 to rule out that this was a missile. 1418 01:14:21,021 --> 01:14:23,981 Not in any honest scientific way at least. 1419 01:14:37,211 --> 01:14:38,517 [ radio chatter ] 1420 01:14:41,825 --> 01:14:44,218 Stalcup: After climbing out of JFK Airport, 1421 01:14:44,262 --> 01:14:47,091 flight 800 leveled off at 13,000 feet. 1422 01:14:47,134 --> 01:14:50,398 Moments later, a fast-moving object 1423 01:14:50,442 --> 01:14:53,401 was seen racing horizontally out to sea 1424 01:14:53,445 --> 01:14:55,403 from Long Island's south shore 1425 01:14:55,447 --> 01:14:57,231 heading east-southeast. 1426 01:14:57,275 --> 01:14:59,277 One of the dozens of eyewitnesses 1427 01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,975 who saw object one was Lisa Perry. 1428 01:15:02,019 --> 01:15:05,544 And I see something that's going across the sky. 1429 01:15:05,588 --> 01:15:09,113 It's going very quickly. It looked kind of like that Superman bullet. 1430 01:15:09,156 --> 01:15:11,811 Stalcup: A few miles offshore, it turned upward 1431 01:15:11,855 --> 01:15:14,161 and began climbing while heading south. 1432 01:15:14,205 --> 01:15:18,296 - And it wavered and zigzagged as it flew. - Then it turned. 1433 01:15:18,339 --> 01:15:20,559 Stalcup: At this time, a second object 1434 01:15:20,603 --> 01:15:23,910 rose off the ocean miles away and further to the east. 1435 01:15:23,954 --> 01:15:27,087 Both objects began converging on flight 800. 1436 01:15:27,131 --> 01:15:29,916 Object two approached the jetliner head on. 1437 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,659 And then it started climbing, passing my altitude. 1438 01:15:33,703 --> 01:15:37,445 Pilot Vassilis Bakounis, flying at 2,000 feet, 1439 01:15:37,489 --> 01:15:41,362 saw the object rising from below his altitude. 1440 01:15:41,406 --> 01:15:43,669 Meanwhile, object one headed behind 1441 01:15:43,713 --> 01:15:45,932 and to the right of flight 800. 1442 01:15:45,976 --> 01:15:49,414 It suddenly turned left toward the jetliner 1443 01:15:49,457 --> 01:15:53,287 and exploded near flight 800's left wing. 1444 01:15:53,331 --> 01:15:56,029 The detonation of object one near the airplane 1445 01:15:56,073 --> 01:15:58,728 caused the upper surface of the left wing to shatter. 1446 01:15:58,771 --> 01:16:01,078 As the plane banked to the left, 1447 01:16:01,121 --> 01:16:04,472 misted fuel coming out of the top of the left wing 1448 01:16:04,516 --> 01:16:07,606 made a thick white plume of vapor behind the jetliner. 1449 01:16:07,650 --> 01:16:09,956 Then object two exploded 1450 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,785 with two nearly simultaneous explosions. 1451 01:16:12,829 --> 01:16:15,614 Two ordnance explosions. 1452 01:16:15,658 --> 01:16:18,051 The timing difference between the two explosions 1453 01:16:18,095 --> 01:16:19,923 was a fraction of seconds. 1454 01:16:19,966 --> 01:16:21,794 Stalcup: A third object 1455 01:16:21,838 --> 01:16:24,667 came racing out of the ocean and climbed sharply. 1456 01:16:24,710 --> 01:16:26,799 It appeared to come from a ship. 1457 01:16:26,843 --> 01:16:29,759 Witness: At night in the evening, ships turn on their lights. 1458 01:16:29,802 --> 01:16:31,978 Sometimes they'll have a bright mast light. 1459 01:16:32,022 --> 01:16:36,417 This particular vessel had a very bright mast light. 1460 01:16:36,461 --> 01:16:39,333 From the mast light, 1461 01:16:39,377 --> 01:16:41,509 there was another flash 1462 01:16:41,553 --> 01:16:45,252 and I saw another object rise out of the ocean. 1463 01:16:45,296 --> 01:16:47,603 Stalcup: Object three exploded 1464 01:16:47,646 --> 01:16:49,213 underneath the aircraft's nose 1465 01:16:49,256 --> 01:16:51,041 causing it to fall off. 1466 01:16:51,084 --> 01:16:53,347 As the aircraft fell to the ocean, 1467 01:16:53,391 --> 01:16:54,827 its wings broke off, 1468 01:16:54,871 --> 01:16:58,439 creating two huge fireballs in the sky. 1469 01:17:00,267 --> 01:17:02,748 [ gavel banging ] 1470 01:17:02,792 --> 01:17:05,446 Good morning and welcome to this meeting 1471 01:17:05,490 --> 01:17:07,405 of the National Transportation Safety Board. 1472 01:17:09,363 --> 01:17:11,365 The cause of the in-flight breakup 1473 01:17:11,409 --> 01:17:14,455 of TWA flight 800 1474 01:17:14,499 --> 01:17:17,894 was a fuel/air explosion in the center wing tank. 1475 01:17:17,937 --> 01:17:20,548 After four years of working on this, 1476 01:17:20,592 --> 01:17:23,247 I assume that you would have liked to have been able 1477 01:17:23,290 --> 01:17:25,858 to come here today in front of the family members 1478 01:17:25,902 --> 01:17:28,078 and tell them what the ignition source was. 1479 01:17:28,121 --> 01:17:30,776 Sir, I would just love to be able to walk in here 1480 01:17:30,820 --> 01:17:32,909 with a molten piece of wire and say here it is, 1481 01:17:32,952 --> 01:17:36,521 but, no, sir, I cannot walk up and say this is the piece. 1482 01:17:47,227 --> 01:17:49,229 [ speaking French ] 1483 01:18:02,765 --> 01:18:04,723 Stalcup: No eyewitnesses testified at the hearing. 1484 01:18:04,767 --> 01:18:08,118 Instead, the NTSB's Dr. David Mayer, 1485 01:18:08,161 --> 01:18:10,555 the same guy who changed evidence tags in Hank's hangar, 1486 01:18:10,598 --> 01:18:12,818 gave an hour-long presentation 1487 01:18:12,862 --> 01:18:15,255 explaining why eyewitnesses are unreliable. 1488 01:18:15,299 --> 01:18:17,867 Psychologist Ira Hyman has written that people 1489 01:18:17,910 --> 01:18:19,912 combine knowledge from various sources 1490 01:18:19,956 --> 01:18:22,480 with their own personal experience to create memories. 1491 01:18:22,523 --> 01:18:25,091 It's been well documented that people's memories change over time. 1492 01:18:25,135 --> 01:18:29,139 Even memories that we're sure of can contain errors. 1493 01:18:29,182 --> 01:18:31,445 Witness accounts can change over time. 1494 01:18:31,489 --> 01:18:33,839 Witnesses' memories do change over time. 1495 01:18:33,883 --> 01:18:35,885 People's memories change over time. 1496 01:18:35,928 --> 01:18:38,104 Hughes: David Mayer is Mr. Fixit. 1497 01:18:38,148 --> 01:18:40,150 You know, he fixed the tags. 1498 01:18:40,193 --> 01:18:42,195 He fixed the witness statements. 1499 01:18:45,982 --> 01:18:48,549 A group put a four-page ad in the "Washington Times," 1500 01:18:48,593 --> 01:18:51,291 including six witness accounts. 1501 01:18:51,335 --> 01:18:52,510 What do you think about those accounts? 1502 01:18:55,165 --> 01:18:58,603 Well, I actually have the ad with me. 1503 01:18:58,646 --> 01:19:00,518 The final witness in the advertisement 1504 01:19:00,561 --> 01:19:02,694 is identified as witness 649. 1505 01:19:02,738 --> 01:19:06,132 Stalcup: Witness 649 is Joseph Delgado. 1506 01:19:06,176 --> 01:19:09,657 Witness 649 described events that certainly do 1507 01:19:09,701 --> 01:19:11,877 sound like a missile attacking the airplane. 1508 01:19:11,921 --> 01:19:14,793 Witness 649 said that everything he saw 1509 01:19:14,837 --> 01:19:16,621 occurred between two flagpoles. 1510 01:19:16,664 --> 01:19:19,363 The yellow line shows his line of sight 1511 01:19:19,406 --> 01:19:20,581 between those two flagpoles. 1512 01:19:20,625 --> 01:19:22,322 They said everything he saw 1513 01:19:22,366 --> 01:19:23,671 occurred between these two flagpoles. 1514 01:19:23,715 --> 01:19:25,543 And it looks like a single line. 1515 01:19:25,586 --> 01:19:27,110 It isn't a single line. It's two lines, 1516 01:19:27,153 --> 01:19:28,372 but they're two degrees apart. 1517 01:19:28,415 --> 01:19:30,635 It happened somewhere in here. 1518 01:19:30,678 --> 01:19:34,421 So we're looking at a 20, 30-degree angle separation. 1519 01:19:34,465 --> 01:19:36,728 - Or better. - He had a baseball field in front of him. 1520 01:19:36,772 --> 01:19:38,556 He wasn't constricted by his viewpoint. 1521 01:19:38,599 --> 01:19:40,819 - It wasn't just two degrees? - No. 1522 01:19:40,863 --> 01:19:43,126 - It wasn't just a very narrow angle? - No way. 1523 01:19:43,169 --> 01:19:45,345 - No way? - [ laughs ] No. 1524 01:19:45,389 --> 01:19:47,347 Mayer: So it doesn't appears that this witness was looking 1525 01:19:47,391 --> 01:19:50,133 in the right location to see flight 800 at the spot 1526 01:19:50,176 --> 01:19:52,091 where it would have been struck by a hypothetical missile. 1527 01:19:52,135 --> 01:19:55,965 Stalcup: Next, Dr. Mayer talks about eyewitness Fred Meyer, 1528 01:19:56,008 --> 01:19:59,359 a war veteran who flew rescue helicopters in Vietnam. 1529 01:19:59,403 --> 01:20:03,276 He observed a streak in flight 1530 01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:04,756 for about one or two seconds 1531 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,889 and then he saw the enormous fireball develop. 1532 01:20:06,932 --> 01:20:10,022 Mr. Mayer here did not tell the whole truth. 1533 01:20:10,066 --> 01:20:12,459 He mentioned something that occurred 1534 01:20:12,503 --> 01:20:14,897 at the very end of my statement. 1535 01:20:14,940 --> 01:20:18,204 I saw a streak of light crossing the sky 1536 01:20:18,248 --> 01:20:21,164 in a nearly horizontal direction. 1537 01:20:21,207 --> 01:20:23,557 And then I saw an explosion 1538 01:20:23,601 --> 01:20:26,778 which was, in my estimation, 1539 01:20:26,822 --> 01:20:30,477 a high-velocity explosion of military ordnance. 1540 01:20:30,521 --> 01:20:32,610 Something I'd seen many times before. 1541 01:20:32,653 --> 01:20:35,656 And then after having made that statement, 1542 01:20:35,700 --> 01:20:37,833 I made statements regarding watching 1543 01:20:37,876 --> 01:20:39,704 the fireball descend into the ocean. 1544 01:20:39,747 --> 01:20:42,925 The witness observations of a streak of light 1545 01:20:42,968 --> 01:20:44,796 were not related to a missile. 1546 01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:48,234 The TWA flight 800 in-flight breakup 1547 01:20:48,278 --> 01:20:50,628 was initiated by a fuel/air explosion 1548 01:20:50,671 --> 01:20:52,108 in the center wing tank. 1549 01:20:52,151 --> 01:20:55,285 The source of ignition energy for the explosion 1550 01:20:55,328 --> 01:20:57,678 could not be determined with certainty. 1551 01:20:57,722 --> 01:21:00,768 This then completes the four-year investigation 1552 01:21:00,812 --> 01:21:04,511 into the tragedy of TWA 800. 1553 01:21:04,555 --> 01:21:06,470 And I adjourn this board meeting. 1554 01:21:17,829 --> 01:21:19,613 Stalcup: I lived in Mashpee, 1555 01:21:19,657 --> 01:21:21,267 it's a little town on Cape Cod. 1556 01:21:21,311 --> 01:21:23,661 We made our own ice cream, made our own root beer. 1557 01:21:23,704 --> 01:21:26,882 We had four kids. It was a wonderful childhood. 1558 01:21:26,925 --> 01:21:28,448 My father was an oceanographer, 1559 01:21:28,492 --> 01:21:29,885 my mother was a stay-at-home mom. 1560 01:21:29,928 --> 01:21:32,496 It was like a dream. 1561 01:21:32,539 --> 01:21:34,585 Life was a dream and the birds were beautiful, 1562 01:21:34,628 --> 01:21:38,806 nature, go on canoe trips, camping. 1563 01:21:38,850 --> 01:21:40,896 When I was seven years old, my mother died. 1564 01:21:43,986 --> 01:21:46,989 When something like that happens, it changes you. 1565 01:21:47,032 --> 01:21:50,775 You start to see the value of life. 1566 01:21:50,818 --> 01:21:52,385 You know? 1567 01:21:52,429 --> 01:21:55,562 You, you know-- you have a-- 1568 01:21:57,913 --> 01:22:00,045 you know... 1569 01:22:07,966 --> 01:22:11,752 You have a, you know, beautiful mother that loves you 1570 01:22:11,796 --> 01:22:15,365 and you're very young and you're very dependent on that woman. 1571 01:22:15,408 --> 01:22:18,281 And they're gone. 1572 01:22:18,324 --> 01:22:22,633 It's probably the most painful thing you can ever go through. 1573 01:22:24,722 --> 01:22:27,246 And life goes on. 1574 01:22:29,509 --> 01:22:33,339 I was surprised that the cars just didn't stop. 1575 01:22:36,125 --> 01:22:39,128 And you see the importance of life, really. 1576 01:22:41,043 --> 01:22:43,436 You know, you value life a lot more 1577 01:22:43,480 --> 01:22:45,395 and you stand up for what's right. 1578 01:22:45,438 --> 01:22:48,006 Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, 1579 01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:51,575 my name is Joe Lychner from Houston, Texas. 1580 01:22:51,618 --> 01:22:54,970 And one year ago today on July 10, 1581 01:22:55,013 --> 01:22:57,537 I was the luckiest man in the world. 1582 01:22:57,581 --> 01:23:01,280 I had a great home, a loving family 1583 01:23:01,324 --> 01:23:04,109 including my beautiful wife Pam who was 37, 1584 01:23:04,153 --> 01:23:06,503 my daughter Shannon who was 10, 1585 01:23:06,546 --> 01:23:09,201 my daughter Katie who was eight. 1586 01:23:09,245 --> 01:23:12,552 We had it all. 1587 01:23:12,596 --> 01:23:15,338 I had recently started a new position with my company 1588 01:23:15,381 --> 01:23:17,818 and that's why I was not with my family 1589 01:23:17,862 --> 01:23:20,299 when they boarded TWA flight 800 1590 01:23:20,343 --> 01:23:22,693 for a short stay in Paris. 1591 01:23:40,276 --> 01:23:41,494 My name is Hank Hughes. 1592 01:23:41,538 --> 01:23:43,627 I'm a retired NTSB investigator. 1593 01:23:43,670 --> 01:23:47,587 I was one of the principal investigators of TWA flight 800. 1594 01:23:47,631 --> 01:23:49,546 And, of course, I worked with Bob Young, 1595 01:23:49,589 --> 01:23:51,939 who was the chief investigator for TWA. 1596 01:23:51,983 --> 01:23:56,074 I am here because of some concerns I've had 1597 01:23:56,118 --> 01:23:58,381 for well over 15 years. 1598 01:24:19,141 --> 01:24:22,448 The witnesses had the courage to come forward after this happened, 1599 01:24:22,492 --> 01:24:24,972 but they were ignored, some of them were berated. 1600 01:24:25,016 --> 01:24:27,149 No witness was ever allowed to testify. 1601 01:24:27,192 --> 01:24:30,456 Once it got to this point, you can see these little pieces right here, 1602 01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:31,588 well, this is the wind direction. 1603 01:24:40,162 --> 01:24:43,426 Hughes: The way to reopen the investigation legally 1604 01:24:43,469 --> 01:24:47,517 is to file what they call a petition for reconsideration. 1605 01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:51,651 This petition goes to the NTSB. 1606 01:24:51,695 --> 01:24:54,132 We're gonna write our name on the line. 1607 01:24:54,176 --> 01:24:56,395 If you would like to participate, 1608 01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:58,876 we welcome you to sign it, too. 1609 01:25:06,144 --> 01:25:07,711 Stalcup: We're gonna read our findings 1610 01:25:07,754 --> 01:25:09,756 and we're gonna all sign them here in front of you. 1611 01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:14,065 Number one: The explosion that caused the crash 1612 01:25:14,109 --> 01:25:16,154 was external to the aircraft. 1613 01:25:16,198 --> 01:25:20,289 Number two: FAA radar sites recorded fast-moving debris 1614 01:25:20,332 --> 01:25:22,682 that travelled perpendicular to the flight path. 1615 01:25:22,726 --> 01:25:25,859 No mechanism or event in the official theory 1616 01:25:25,903 --> 01:25:28,384 can account for this radar evidence. 1617 01:25:28,427 --> 01:25:31,648 A significant number of credible eyewitness accounts 1618 01:25:31,691 --> 01:25:34,433 are consistent with an external event. 1619 01:25:34,477 --> 01:25:38,655 The CIA produced an inaccurate crash animation. 1620 01:25:38,698 --> 01:25:42,528 Both the CIA and NTSB crash simulations are inaccurate. 1621 01:25:42,572 --> 01:25:45,662 There remains significant anomalies 1622 01:25:45,705 --> 01:25:47,968 in the way this investigation was conducted. 1623 01:25:48,012 --> 01:25:50,493 There were numerous violations of customary 1624 01:25:50,536 --> 01:25:53,060 and normal investigative protocol. 1625 01:25:53,104 --> 01:25:56,020 The NTSB's probable cause determination for this crash 1626 01:25:56,063 --> 01:25:58,805 of flight 800 is not supported 1627 01:25:58,849 --> 01:26:01,373 by the physical evidence, the eyewitness statements, 1628 01:26:01,417 --> 01:26:03,462 and other facts. 1629 01:26:49,204 --> 01:26:51,423 An object travelled a great distance 1630 01:26:51,467 --> 01:26:54,121 at great speed and converged with it. 1631 01:26:59,301 --> 01:27:01,390 I mean, it's... 1632 01:27:13,228 --> 01:27:15,447 You know, you try to-- 1633 01:27:15,491 --> 01:27:18,189 it's a very difficult thing. You have to try to forget and move on. 1634 01:27:18,233 --> 01:27:20,322 And I think that's important for a lot of people, 1635 01:27:20,365 --> 01:27:23,499 but to not have this explored 1636 01:27:23,542 --> 01:27:24,891 to the depth that it should be 1637 01:27:24,935 --> 01:27:27,024 is wrong. 125899

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.