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Tense music
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The first few days
after our last conversation,
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I was very, very angry and I
didn't really want to talk to him at all.
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So for a couple of days, I just
distanced myself from him as
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much as possible, whether
physically, verbally...
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- Like halfway...
- Can I ask... Michael, hold on.
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How do you feel when
you're kept out like that?
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When you're stonewalled?
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Uh... A mixture of
frustrated, scared...
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And the fear is
the fear of anger?
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No, fear of divorce.
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Theme music
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Honestly, I was again
sort of in a place where I'd
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been a few times over the course
of our marriage where I thought,
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"All right, I guess
there's nothing more I can do.
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Like, it's out of my hands."
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So I tried to, uh, bully
her into doing the homework.
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Michal, did you really
take two hours a day and...?
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So a slight variation.
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I took more than
two hours a day.
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Michael thinks I took a little
bit too much time to relax.
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- Excellent.
- He cleaned up.
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And I... he's been watching the kids
and I've just kind of been relaxing.
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Wonderful.
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Her homework was to take two
hours a day of doing absolutely nothing.
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Two hours a day
every day or some days?
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Every day.
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Oh my goodness.
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He just immediately filled
in the spaces and did a lot,
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took it upon himself
to, like, clean the house,
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take care of the
kids, and did work.
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And then they got into another
one of those horrible fights.
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Yeah.
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But then, the next
session, they came back and
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Michael took it upon himself to
try to draw the cycle between them.
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Here's what he created.
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I thought it was
really interesting.
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There's no way she's
gonna be able to read that.
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- Can you see this?
- Yes, I can.
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Hold it steady.
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1. Driven.
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2. Lull period.
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Which we should talk about
because I think there's a lot there.
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Upbeat music For him, it starts
with her being driven and needing
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something to happen.
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Yeah.
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And then, he goes into
what he calls a "lull period"
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when he loses motivation
and he just kind of rests.
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And then she gets increasingly
anxious and out of her mind and
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he slides back into
what they call "laziness."
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Mm-hm.
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And then there's, like, a breakdown
between them and silent resentment.
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Yeah.
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And then there's an explosion,
some kind of horrible fight.
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Sometimes, it's, like,
really talk about divorce.
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I feel like your existence
is worthless right now.
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It's absolutely worthless.
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And then they
make their comeback.
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They start talking
and unpacking it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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In this diagram, he was
looking at all these ways that
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they could cut this cycle.
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00:03:59,614 --> 00:04:04,661
So how do we prevent falling
into this zone is my question?
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00:04:05,036 --> 00:04:07,580
Because we sat down and we were
workshopping together what we
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should do, you were so anti-me.
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00:04:10,458 --> 00:04:13,002
You were fighting me so hard
and not doing the things that we
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00:04:13,044 --> 00:04:16,047
discussed because you just
wanted to revert back to,
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"Oh no, I want to do the lazy."
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You should be able to get past
whatever it is that's holding
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you back and actually
be successful in life
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and not fall back to this, again,
excuses, excuses, excuses.
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00:04:30,353 --> 00:04:34,440
But you know, um, Michal, I
understand what you're saying.
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You can imagine that, first
of all, as a psychoanalyst,
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I have a slightly
different take on things.
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I think that when you really
understand deeply what happened
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to you and what
dynamics shaped you,
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it's the actual only way that
you can have any sense of choice
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on the matter.
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When someone enters a
state of lull, there's a disconnect.
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What is this disconnect?
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Because this "lull,"
it's... it didn't start now.
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00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,727
Upbeat funky music
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We've been
trying to get healthy together.
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00:05:24,532 --> 00:05:29,329
We started working out
this week and eating better.
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We actually started sleeping in
the same room about a week and a
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- half...
- Wow.
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00:05:33,916 --> 00:05:35,084
Two weeks ago.
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00:05:35,126 --> 00:05:40,173
What made you decide to
allow Dru into your space?
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00:05:41,507 --> 00:05:46,262
I think the both of us kind of
have to show up for the other
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person if we're
gonna make this work.
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Yeah.
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She was the one
who actually brought up,
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um, "Let's go have
sexual intercourse.
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- Let's go have sex."
- Mm-hm.
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00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:02,695
And she's never done that
unless we've had, like, drinks
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00:06:02,737 --> 00:06:07,367
in us and stuff like that, but...
And how did you each feel?
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00:06:07,617 --> 00:06:09,869
Well, I felt great.
But I'll be honest
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00:06:09,911 --> 00:06:12,348
But in the back of my head I'm
thinking, "This is too good to be true.
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00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:14,374
This is not gonna last forever."
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00:06:14,499 --> 00:06:17,502
When it comes to
the physical contact,
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the sexual
intercourse, the affection,
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00:06:19,921 --> 00:06:23,549
all those things, she can
get it whenever she wants.
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And I can't.
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She controls it all.
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Ambient music Tashira had to
come clean with herself about whether
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she's in it or not.
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Whether she wants to
make it work or not.
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Which was interesting because
then we started to see some of
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Dru's anxiety about intimacy.
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Yeah.
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00:06:48,991 --> 00:06:54,038
So much of the turmoil
around sex has to do with the
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- initiation of it.
- Yeah.
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Who's initiating?
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What does it have to
do with vulnerability?
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With asking?
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Is it me?
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Am I not attractive
enough or...?
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00:07:07,593 --> 00:07:09,595
I don't wanna be
like, "Can we do it?"
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00:07:09,637 --> 00:07:11,764
You know, like, ask him
like it's a favor, you know?
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00:07:11,806 --> 00:07:14,559
Like, I'm 26 now.
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00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,021
Sex should be... I
shouldn't need to ask for it.
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00:07:21,441 --> 00:07:25,403
During this quarantine
time, it's like your nose is
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rubbed against
this all day long.
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Covid and kids
equals daydrinking.
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We have been
quarantined for eight weeks and
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we're officially
both unemployed now.
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It honestly stresses me out and I
don't even know how to handle that.
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00:07:51,429 --> 00:07:53,389
How's that for you, Gianni?
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00:07:53,431 --> 00:07:56,559
I don't know when I'm gonna see
my family and I don't know when
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I'm gonna be performing again.
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I don't know when I'm
gonna be working again.
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00:08:00,229 --> 00:08:03,774
At least he qualifies for
the benefits from the state.
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00:08:03,816 --> 00:08:05,610
I don't qualify for anything.
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00:08:05,651 --> 00:08:09,447
I literally have zero dollars
coming to my account until
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00:08:09,489 --> 00:08:11,449
- who-knows-when.
- Yeah.
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00:08:11,491 --> 00:08:15,661
After we spoke the last time,
he hasn't been keeping alcohol
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00:08:15,703 --> 00:08:18,456
- in the house that much.
- Great.
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00:08:18,498 --> 00:08:23,085
But now we're having
some issues with each other and
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00:08:23,127 --> 00:08:27,673
being on each others' case
and just kind of picking at one
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00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:31,594
another and, you know, we
got in an argument.
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Because now we are so
much together, you know?
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Like, all day, every day.
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Every little thing seems like
the end of the world.
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Of course.
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I mean, I ended up sleeping on
the couch that night because I
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00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:43,874
was upset about it, and
then the next day, we were like,
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"What are we doing?"
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I will say, through that
one argument where he slept
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out here by himself, it
took me to dark places.
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00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:58,871
You know, I've been in a
relationship before where I have
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00:08:59,163 --> 00:09:02,833
created arguments
so that I can use.
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00:09:02,875 --> 00:09:04,043
Aha.
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00:09:04,085 --> 00:09:07,296
And I don't feel like
that was one of them...
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00:09:07,338 --> 00:09:12,260
- Yeah.
- But I did have a moment of wanting to use.
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00:09:12,301 --> 00:09:14,637
When Gianni went away?
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00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:15,680
Right.
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I immediately felt alone.
158
00:09:17,348 --> 00:09:18,558
Yeah.
159
00:09:18,599 --> 00:09:23,896
He is... He was the number
one reason I got sober.
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00:09:23,938 --> 00:09:28,943
And it's extremely terrifying
now to me that he's the only
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00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:31,654
reason that I'm sober.
162
00:09:31,696 --> 00:09:34,490
Because I feel like it's
still the only reason.
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00:09:34,907 --> 00:09:39,245
At this point, I need to really
start working on having some
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00:09:39,287 --> 00:09:44,333
more solid foundation to my
sobriety, more so than him.
165
00:09:46,335 --> 00:09:47,628
Yeah.
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00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:51,507
To have your own
investment in your own life.
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00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:52,717
Right.
168
00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:55,511
How are you
feeling hearing that, Gianni?
169
00:09:55,553 --> 00:10:01,142
I didn't know because he
never tells me those things, so...
170
00:10:01,183 --> 00:10:04,687
I mean, he had told me one day,
"Thank God you're here because
171
00:10:04,729 --> 00:10:10,901
if you weren't here, I would be
drinking to make this go through faster."
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00:10:10,943 --> 00:10:12,528
Mm-hm.
173
00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:16,532
It's like how... we
always want time off, right?
174
00:10:16,574 --> 00:10:18,117
And now we have
all this time off.
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00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:19,368
The time!
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00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:21,746
And it's like the
worst thing in the world.
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00:10:23,748 --> 00:10:25,583
This is crazy.
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00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:30,630
Chill music
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Since we're
constantly in the same space,
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temporality is
kind of evaporated.
181
00:10:48,689 --> 00:10:51,484
Like, everything is
just one long day.
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There's a certain level of
porousness or lack of definition.
183
00:11:01,494 --> 00:11:04,664
Like everything
bleeds into everything.
184
00:11:05,873 --> 00:11:09,669
I don't know what week
is it, what year is it?
185
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:11,212
I know, what
day of the week is it?
186
00:11:11,253 --> 00:11:12,880
- What am I doing?
- Yeah.
187
00:11:35,069 --> 00:11:37,029
With these treatments,
it feels very different.
188
00:11:37,071 --> 00:11:38,864
The whole treatment
feels very different.
189
00:11:38,906 --> 00:11:40,449
Time feels different.
190
00:11:40,491 --> 00:11:42,201
I can't believe it's
been a month already.
191
00:11:43,911 --> 00:11:46,706
There's something about
working in person that I miss.
192
00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:52,878
Being like bodies in
the room, in a real room,
193
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:58,676
come on, there's just no alternative
for being full-bodied in the room.
194
00:11:58,718 --> 00:11:59,885
Yeah.
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00:11:59,927 --> 00:12:03,139
I mean, most of the
time, I've longed for my office.
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00:12:11,605 --> 00:12:14,734
It was Mother's Day.
197
00:12:14,775 --> 00:12:20,114
So I had gotten her a gift
and I wanted to surprise her.
198
00:12:20,156 --> 00:12:22,742
And I know she always
wanted a boymom t-shirt.
199
00:12:22,783 --> 00:12:25,911
So I actually bought the shirt,
and she was like... I said,
200
00:12:25,953 --> 00:12:26,579
"Do you like it?"
201
00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:28,914
And she was like, "No."
202
00:12:28,956 --> 00:12:31,834
She was like, "I don't like v-necks
and it's not a good material."
203
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:33,836
- And that got me so upset.
- Mm-hm.
204
00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:35,880
So I was just
like, "You know what?
205
00:12:35,921 --> 00:12:37,673
Throw this shit out.
206
00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:39,550
And that's it."
207
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,181
My issue with the shirt is just the
way that it was gonna look on me.
208
00:12:45,222 --> 00:12:47,349
The way that I'm feeling
about my body right now.
209
00:12:47,391 --> 00:12:51,103
It had nothing to do with...
So why didn't you say that?
210
00:12:51,145 --> 00:12:52,730
Oh my God, the baby again.
211
00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:54,106
Yeah, the baby again.
212
00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:57,401
I had said I didn't like the
material because it's embarrassing.
213
00:12:57,443 --> 00:12:58,962
Like, I didn't wanna be like,
"I don't like the shirt because
214
00:12:58,986 --> 00:13:00,279
it's gonna make me look fat."
215
00:13:00,321 --> 00:13:03,157
Oh, so rather just
hurt my feelings.
216
00:13:03,407 --> 00:13:07,953
No, I wasn't... Well, Tashira, but
there is... there is a way... I think
217
00:13:07,995 --> 00:13:10,956
there's something about...
218
00:13:12,833 --> 00:13:17,838
That you sometimes don't really
go all the way to consider the
219
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,967
impact of what you say.
220
00:13:22,009 --> 00:13:23,135
I agree with that.
221
00:13:23,177 --> 00:13:26,430
That you are kind of
reckless in the way you speak.
222
00:13:27,181 --> 00:13:27,973
I know.
223
00:13:28,015 --> 00:13:30,142
No, I totally agree with that.
224
00:13:30,184 --> 00:13:33,521
And I realized that when he
came back into the room and,
225
00:13:33,562 --> 00:13:36,732
you know, he started off with,
"This is really hard for me,
226
00:13:36,774 --> 00:13:38,317
you know, but I'm gonna say it.
227
00:13:38,359 --> 00:13:40,528
You know, that
really hurt my feelings."
228
00:13:40,569 --> 00:13:43,322
And he was, like,
huffing and puffing through it.
229
00:13:43,364 --> 00:13:44,532
I don't know.
230
00:13:44,573 --> 00:13:47,326
Maybe I'm harsh because I
try to push people away.
231
00:13:47,368 --> 00:13:52,998
Like, I just, um... You know, I
really don't have an excuse for it.
232
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,167
I don't have... You don't
need an excuse for it,
233
00:13:55,209 --> 00:14:01,423
but it's something you might
wanna... take a good look at.
234
00:14:01,465 --> 00:14:02,591
Yeah.
235
00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:04,009
I know.
236
00:14:04,051 --> 00:14:05,427
Yeah, hello!
237
00:14:05,469 --> 00:14:07,012
- Say hi.
- Good morning.
238
00:14:07,054 --> 00:14:09,890
Sorry.
239
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,351
- Good morning!
- It's okay, baby.
240
00:14:15,896 --> 00:14:17,982
He's like, "I didn't
wake up for therapy."
241
00:14:19,024 --> 00:14:21,235
I know, right?
242
00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:24,029
After, like, the
heated part about it,
243
00:14:24,071 --> 00:14:28,200
I said, "What I'm going to tell
you is super not easy for me,
244
00:14:28,242 --> 00:14:31,620
it is, like... it's
making me cringe inside."
245
00:14:31,662 --> 00:14:33,789
And it kind of took me a
little while to actually spit
246
00:14:33,831 --> 00:14:37,001
the words out because I don't
know why it's so hard for me,
247
00:14:37,042 --> 00:14:39,003
but I just told her, like...
248
00:14:39,044 --> 00:14:42,047
And I kind of mumbled it because
it was so hard for me to say.
249
00:14:42,089 --> 00:14:46,886
I was like, "It hurt my
feelings about what you said.
250
00:14:47,845 --> 00:14:50,431
- Or about your response."
- Yeah.
251
00:14:50,472 --> 00:14:51,974
Great.
252
00:14:52,016 --> 00:14:54,643
"It hurt my feelings.
253
00:14:54,685 --> 00:14:56,061
- That's all."
- Yeah.
254
00:14:56,103 --> 00:14:58,230
- That was super hard to say.
- Yes, it's hard to say.
255
00:14:58,272 --> 00:14:59,899
Practice it.
256
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,860
It's the truth!
257
00:15:02,902 --> 00:15:05,237
Everything else is nonsense.
258
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:08,073
No, I know, but it's j...
259
00:15:08,115 --> 00:15:12,494
I guess at that very moment
is when I realized how hard
260
00:15:12,536 --> 00:15:17,583
it is to get in
that vulnerability.
261
00:15:18,083 --> 00:15:19,251
Yeah.
262
00:15:19,293 --> 00:15:21,754
Exposing the truth.
263
00:15:21,962 --> 00:15:25,049
Yeah, but... exposing myself.
264
00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:26,091
Well, good, great.
265
00:15:26,133 --> 00:15:27,760
Dru, great.
266
00:15:28,594 --> 00:15:31,680
- Great.
- Yeah, I don't wanna feel like...
267
00:15:31,722 --> 00:15:34,034
like... I guess, like... like,
the little bitch who's like,
268
00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:36,101
"Oh, you hurt my feelings."
269
00:15:36,143 --> 00:15:37,645
The little bitch?
270
00:15:37,686 --> 00:15:38,187
You gotta stop.
271
00:15:38,188 --> 00:15:41,065
He's very much like that.
272
00:15:41,106 --> 00:15:42,691
He's just, like...
273
00:15:42,733 --> 00:15:45,235
Like, that's why I tell him,
like, I don't understand why he
274
00:15:45,277 --> 00:15:48,072
thinks that I'm
tough, but he's like...
275
00:15:48,113 --> 00:15:50,658
- tough tough sometimes.
- Mm-hm, right.
276
00:15:50,699 --> 00:15:54,244
Like, he just... it's hard
for him to express that.
277
00:15:54,286 --> 00:15:58,457
And then after he said that, the
conversation totally mellowed
278
00:15:58,499 --> 00:16:00,084
- out.
- Of course, mm-hm.
279
00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:04,129
We were able to... I apologized
to him and I put the shirt on
280
00:16:04,171 --> 00:16:06,924
and I took a picture and I
actually liked the shirt on me.
281
00:16:06,966 --> 00:16:09,718
So... You see all this?
282
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,136
You see this shit?
283
00:16:14,139 --> 00:16:20,729
Chill music After three
months of lockdown,
284
00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:23,732
offices, restaurants, and
hair salons are reopening in
285
00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:25,484
America's biggest city.
286
00:16:25,526 --> 00:16:28,487
Pretty soon, we're gonna
finally be meeting in person.
287
00:16:28,529 --> 00:16:28,862
Right.
288
00:16:28,904 --> 00:16:30,781
Yeah, that would be great.
289
00:16:30,823 --> 00:16:34,118
So I will see you
sometime soon in person.
290
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:35,077
Yes.
291
00:16:35,119 --> 00:16:36,078
Can't wait.
292
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,539
- That's gonna be amazing.
- Yes.
293
00:16:52,553 --> 00:16:57,558
Ambient music
294
00:17:22,207 --> 00:17:23,375
It's been, what?
295
00:17:23,417 --> 00:17:28,380
March... Five months.
296
00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:31,050
I've seen you every day.
297
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,803
Just kidding.
298
00:17:35,179 --> 00:17:37,097
You okay?
299
00:17:37,139 --> 00:17:38,807
Yeah.
300
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,194
- Hello.
- Hello.
301
00:17:50,235 --> 00:17:51,379
- Hello.
- I'm giving you space.
302
00:17:51,403 --> 00:17:52,780
Absolutely.
303
00:17:54,239 --> 00:17:55,032
Shall I shut this?
304
00:17:55,074 --> 00:17:56,074
Yes.
305
00:17:58,202 --> 00:17:59,203
New protocols.
306
00:17:59,244 --> 00:18:01,038
- Uh-huh.
- Oh, yeah.
307
00:18:01,538 --> 00:18:04,875
- Don't come too close.
- Yes.
308
00:18:06,418 --> 00:18:08,003
- So.
- So.
309
00:18:08,045 --> 00:18:09,379
How are you two?
310
00:18:09,421 --> 00:18:14,176
In his world, there are a lot of
limitations right now because he can't...
311
00:18:14,218 --> 00:18:16,053
He can't travel back.
312
00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:19,223
It's the first time since
when I left home that I haven't
313
00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:22,059
gone back for this long.
314
00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:24,269
- I haven't been back in a year.
- Oh.
315
00:18:24,311 --> 00:18:27,272
So it's... killing me inside.
316
00:18:27,314 --> 00:18:29,441
It really is
doing a number on him.
317
00:18:29,483 --> 00:18:30,984
He knows, yeah.
318
00:18:31,026 --> 00:18:35,155
And it's the stress
of missing your family?
319
00:18:35,197 --> 00:18:37,032
I feel stuck, you know?
320
00:18:37,074 --> 00:18:37,825
Because I'm in a
position that yes,
321
00:18:37,866 --> 00:18:42,371
I can go, but then he's like,
"When are you gonna be back?"
322
00:18:42,412 --> 00:18:44,206
And I can't say,
"Okay, let's go together,"
323
00:18:44,248 --> 00:18:45,207
because he can't go.
324
00:18:45,249 --> 00:18:47,042
Because Americans are
banned from Europe.
325
00:18:47,084 --> 00:18:49,837
So it's like... What do I do?
326
00:18:49,878 --> 00:18:52,047
I mean, I'm here
because he's here.
327
00:18:52,089 --> 00:18:53,233
You're here 'cause
you're in a relationship.
328
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:57,427
Yeah, 'cause...
- Now, I have my family here. -No pressure.
329
00:18:59,471 --> 00:19:00,264
It's true!
330
00:19:00,305 --> 00:19:01,473
I mean, he's the reason why.
331
00:19:01,515 --> 00:19:02,683
Let's get to work.
332
00:19:02,724 --> 00:19:04,268
No, I mean, do you hear this?
333
00:19:04,309 --> 00:19:05,435
"He's the reason."
334
00:19:05,477 --> 00:19:07,229
This is like his thing.
335
00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:10,274
- I'm the reason for everything.
- But you are.
336
00:19:10,315 --> 00:19:11,859
Well, for right now.
337
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,279
I could've been gone a month
ago because I can go back home.
338
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,114
- But you can't come back.
- I know.
339
00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:19,491
And that scares you
and it scares me.
340
00:19:19,533 --> 00:19:23,912
But you're willing to do it, so... I
know I'm gonna be back at some point.
341
00:19:23,954 --> 00:19:24,955
Do you hear this?
342
00:19:24,997 --> 00:19:30,002
But in this, who's feeling what?
343
00:19:30,711 --> 00:19:32,212
What are you feeling?
344
00:19:32,254 --> 00:19:33,672
Is it I'm holding him back?
345
00:19:33,714 --> 00:19:36,258
I'm keeping him from doing
something he wants to do?
346
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:37,801
I see.
347
00:19:37,843 --> 00:19:42,306
That, you know, I'm the reason
that he is in this state of mind
348
00:19:43,265 --> 00:19:45,225
that is awful for him.
349
00:19:45,267 --> 00:19:47,436
But let me just understand.
350
00:19:47,477 --> 00:19:52,232
Matthew, you're saying that
when Gianni's saying you're the
351
00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:57,321
reason, your experience is that
it makes you into the bad guy?
352
00:19:57,362 --> 00:19:58,113
Yeah.
353
00:19:58,155 --> 00:20:00,115
That you're doing it to him.
354
00:20:00,157 --> 00:20:02,367
Because he says I am.
355
00:20:04,578 --> 00:20:09,374
I wanna get from your end
how much of that do you feel.
356
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:12,336
Do you feel like Matthew's
doing something to you?
357
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:13,670
- Sometimes.
- When?
358
00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:15,356
Because he says, "Okay,
if you go, then we're done."
359
00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:17,132
- I did not say that.
- Oh, my God!
360
00:20:17,174 --> 00:20:19,176
- You said it so many times!
- Wait, wait, wait.
361
00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:20,552
- Are you kidding me?
- Hold on.
362
00:20:20,594 --> 00:20:22,179
Hold on.
363
00:20:22,554 --> 00:20:23,513
Say.
364
00:20:23,555 --> 00:20:26,558
Like, what's... that's not...
Matthew says, "If you're going,
365
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,744
- we're done."
- "If you're going, we're done."
366
00:20:27,768 --> 00:20:29,329
He's like, "What's the
point of being together?"
367
00:20:29,353 --> 00:20:30,812
And if I go, this
is over, you know?
368
00:20:30,854 --> 00:20:32,749
- Everything that we built...
- It feels like an ultimatum?
369
00:20:32,773 --> 00:20:34,399
- Yeah!
- It's like a pressure?
370
00:20:34,441 --> 00:20:36,401
That I have to
stay, yeah, exactly.
371
00:20:36,443 --> 00:20:39,821
- Uh-huh, it's a threat.
- To make him happy.
372
00:20:40,697 --> 00:20:41,406
Do you have any
thoughts about this?
373
00:20:41,407 --> 00:20:43,742
- I mean, I have a thought.
- Mm-hm, oh yeah, absolutely.
374
00:20:43,784 --> 00:20:44,743
Tell me.
375
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:48,372
I'm at the point
where... just go.
376
00:20:48,413 --> 00:20:50,999
But it's not an
ultimatum and it's not...
377
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:54,419
But what's that gonna
mean to you if I just go?
378
00:20:54,461 --> 00:20:58,590
That I'm very concerned on
when this return date is.
379
00:20:58,632 --> 00:21:03,428
What you're projecting into the
future is some very long separation.
380
00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:05,264
Something will come between you.
381
00:21:05,305 --> 00:21:07,065
I feel confident that
that's what it will be.
382
00:21:07,099 --> 00:21:08,267
Yeah.
383
00:21:08,308 --> 00:21:10,269
I think about
all of this all the time,
384
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:14,815
'cause what if he does
something stupid or... Like?
385
00:21:14,856 --> 00:21:18,277
I don't know, start drinking again,
or start seeing someone else?
386
00:21:18,318 --> 00:21:20,445
Right, so that's part of
what's sitting in this.
387
00:21:20,487 --> 00:21:25,284
Yeah, I mean, I blame him,
and it's because of him.
388
00:21:27,327 --> 00:21:30,455
I wanted to go many times last
year but I couldn't because you
389
00:21:30,497 --> 00:21:32,374
were in the
hospital every two months.
390
00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:36,003
And I was thinking, "If I go,
what is gonna happen to him?"
391
00:21:36,044 --> 00:21:39,464
If something happened to him,
then I'm gonna blame myself."
392
00:21:39,506 --> 00:21:40,632
Yeah.
393
00:21:40,674 --> 00:21:44,052
I'm missing a lot.
394
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:49,266
And... I'm kinda
over missing things.
395
00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:50,642
Mm-hm.
396
00:21:50,684 --> 00:21:53,478
You know, my grandad, he
turned 80 years old last month.
397
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,081
And he was like,
"You're not here again."
398
00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:57,316
I was supposed
to be there and...
399
00:21:58,525 --> 00:22:01,153
Sometimes, I feel
like he doesn't get it.
400
00:22:02,946 --> 00:22:05,490
Say more, Gianni.
401
00:22:05,532 --> 00:22:07,492
When I was a kid, I
didn't care 'cause, you know,
402
00:22:07,534 --> 00:22:10,871
I was living my life and
traveling and dancing but now...
403
00:22:10,912 --> 00:22:13,498
Right, but I think
it's cumulative.
404
00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:17,127
It sounds like this missing
and feeling like you didn't get
405
00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:21,131
enough of them is
really longstanding.
406
00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:22,507
Yeah.
407
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:25,886
I'm hearing two, let's
say, different kind of,
408
00:22:25,927 --> 00:22:32,434
um, emotional issues that we
need to find a way to talk about.
409
00:22:32,476 --> 00:22:39,066
I mean, one is the pain of missing
and then there's the question of blame.
410
00:22:39,107 --> 00:22:41,902
Which is a more
complicated thing.
411
00:22:42,277 --> 00:22:47,324
I think, Gianni, you still have
some resentments from the time
412
00:22:48,533 --> 00:22:51,328
that you were drinking, Matthew.
413
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:53,538
Just to put it all on the table.
414
00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:57,876
Can you just lay out the different
ways in which you're blaming Matthew?
415
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:05,133
Well, I always blame him
that I left my dream job.
416
00:23:05,175 --> 00:23:08,553
- What was your dream job?
- I was with this dance company.
417
00:23:08,595 --> 00:23:11,139
- Which one?
- Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo.
418
00:23:11,181 --> 00:23:12,140
I was with them.
419
00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:14,142
I had to go to
Japan for five weeks,
420
00:23:14,184 --> 00:23:17,145
and he kept saying, "Oh my
God, five weeks is a long time,
421
00:23:17,187 --> 00:23:18,730
five weeks is a long time.
422
00:23:18,772 --> 00:23:20,607
We're not gonna make it.
423
00:23:20,649 --> 00:23:21,775
It's not gonna happen.
424
00:23:21,817 --> 00:23:23,735
And if you go, we don't know."
425
00:23:23,777 --> 00:23:27,239
So for fear... I left.
426
00:23:27,489 --> 00:23:30,575
My entire hometown bought
tickets, my entire family,
427
00:23:30,617 --> 00:23:34,746
and it was the biggest disappointment
to my mom because I wasn't there.
428
00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:40,585
So yeah, I blame him, but at
the same time, it was my decision.
429
00:23:40,627 --> 00:23:44,381
So that's... It's not a regret.
430
00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:45,507
Do I regret it?
431
00:23:45,549 --> 00:23:47,717
Yes, you do, you've
said many times you do.
432
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:49,136
Just stick to the blame.
433
00:23:49,177 --> 00:23:50,762
What are we blaming me for?
434
00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:52,764
What else?
435
00:23:53,473 --> 00:23:54,558
But that's the big thing.
436
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,017
And then, the fact that...
437
00:23:56,059 --> 00:24:00,397
But that's a thing and it also...
You're saying it's in a way
438
00:24:00,439 --> 00:24:04,818
symbolic because it comes
back in other iterations.
439
00:24:05,068 --> 00:24:08,280
In a way, it's like that now.
440
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:13,827
It's interesting because the
two of you are focusing on the
441
00:24:15,078 --> 00:24:19,624
fighting about the blame but
what I hear is the two of you
442
00:24:19,666 --> 00:24:23,795
really cherish the contact, the
connection between the two of
443
00:24:23,837 --> 00:24:28,008
you and you're anxious about
it and you're protective of it.
444
00:24:28,049 --> 00:24:32,387
Just keeping the
thread that binds you.
445
00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,181
Mm-hm.
446
00:24:34,222 --> 00:24:39,603
Because I'm hearing you, Matthew,
in a way, you're like, "Don't go!
447
00:24:39,644 --> 00:24:40,645
Don't go!
448
00:24:40,687 --> 00:24:42,230
Something bad
could happen to us.
449
00:24:42,272 --> 00:24:43,565
- To us!"
- Right.
450
00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:46,776
And you're saying, "I
couldn't leave for more than two
451
00:24:46,818 --> 00:24:49,613
weeks because something
bad could happen to us."
452
00:24:49,654 --> 00:24:51,990
And you're both
saying, "This thread,
453
00:24:52,032 --> 00:24:54,993
this us, there's a lot of
threats to it and we've got to
454
00:24:55,035 --> 00:24:56,661
- keep it."
- Mm-hm.
455
00:24:56,703 --> 00:24:57,996
That actually sounds nice.
456
00:24:58,038 --> 00:24:59,664
Yeah.
457
00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:02,667
I actually feel better now.
458
00:25:02,709 --> 00:25:06,463
Well, good, I'm glad that
that worked out for you.
459
00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:08,006
We'll see how long it lasts.
460
00:25:08,048 --> 00:25:10,634
And what about you?
461
00:25:10,675 --> 00:25:12,636
What about me?
462
00:25:12,677 --> 00:25:13,678
How do you feel?
463
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,306
You're saying "It
worked out for you."
464
00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:20,018
No, I mean, I think that that's
a very nice way of looking
465
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:21,853
- at it.
- Mm-hm.
466
00:25:21,895 --> 00:25:23,313
Yeah.
467
00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:26,483
I mean, I still think that
there's some rooted concerns
468
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:29,277
that will continue to come
up and that this blame thing,
469
00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:31,613
I'm not... I don't
take it lightly.
470
00:25:31,655 --> 00:25:36,243
But Matthew, you might need to
kind of struggle with something
471
00:25:36,284 --> 00:25:40,247
there of what it means for
Gianni to have gone through
472
00:25:40,288 --> 00:25:42,040
this with you, right?
473
00:25:42,082 --> 00:25:44,501
To bear that responsibility.
474
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:46,127
Mm-hm.
475
00:25:46,169 --> 00:25:47,647
There might be something there
that might be useful for you to
476
00:25:47,671 --> 00:25:52,092
grasp and will help
Gianni let go of it.
477
00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:59,558
Tense ambient music
478
00:25:59,808 --> 00:26:04,729
I feel like now we're
in, like, the thick of the work.
479
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:09,693
No more beginning, getting to know
people, figuring out what's going on.
480
00:26:09,734 --> 00:26:13,405
It's deeper and more intense.
481
00:26:15,198 --> 00:26:18,994
And that's where change happens.
37344
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