Original subtitles

"Concrete and the Clay" by They Might Be Giants

You, to me Are sweet as roses in the morning You, to me

Are soft as summer in that dawning love we share That something rare

The sidewalks and the street The concrete and the clay beneath my feet

Begin to crumble But love will never die

Because we'll see the mountains tumble... Listen, I'm not gonna walk out.

You're gonna have to put me out.

He's basically throwing an insult with the "laugh out loud" at the end.

He came home and was just extra spicy with

everything that I was saying.

It's just like...

Hi.

Hey, buddy, I need your backup.

Begin to crumble But love will never die

Because we'll see the mountains crumble Before we say goodbye...

Hey.

Oh, wow.

This is Nico.

- Hi, I'm Orna. - Hi.

I met him when I was 21.

Three months later, we got married.

When we first got married, there was good and there was bad.

Big picture items, we're on the same page about,

like how to raise our children... Uh-huh.

The fact that we both... you know, we're Jewish, and we're,

uh... we're Orthodox, so we agree on everything having to do with

that, but over the course of the last few years,

things have definitely become more difficult.

I've been very disappointed with , like, where we are now

and... and... Where you are as far as...?

Everything.

Like, where we are financially, where we are as a couple,

where we are sexually.

Like, I want to be pregnant yesterday.

I ask him that all the time.

You know, I ask him, "When am I going to have another baby, Michael?"

"Well, we can't afford one right now" unless I do something.

So I'm constantly walking around with all this resentment and all

this anger and all this frustration,

so... and I feel like ultimately, the reason for that is I blame him.

Mm-hm.

Because if he were different, then the situation would be different.

If he acted differently, if he acted accordingly,

the situation would be different...

Then he would deliver the life you wa...

Yeah, he would deliver the life that I want.

So what happened?

Why am I answering all the questions?

Maybe you can pipe in.

What happened?

What happened?

Why am I not...

You know what happened?

He happened.

See, that's not a nice way to introduce me.

I mean, my general perspective on marriage is

more that, like, it's two people trying to make it through life

together as partners and they're each contributing whatever they

can, in whatever way they can, to get through it.

You know what that sounds like to me, when he says that?

Is I'm hearing, "That is what a lazy person would say."

Oh, you know what it is?

It's that every individual... It's like socialism, right?

So we are in a socialist co-operative now.

And every person has to contribute...

In the case of a marriage, I feel like socialism isn't the worst model.

Yeah, I'm sure you feel that way.

Every person has to contribute equally.

Can you both slow it down?

I'm the person that's screwed over by it because I'm the

person that's contributing on every front.

Michal, hold on.

Just to be clear, that's total nonsense.

- Right? - No, it isn't.

One second: I'm not doing anything towards improving our future?

- I'm doing more than... - How do you measure

when you're doing enough and when I'm not doing enough?

Because all I expect of you is literally one thing,

- and you don't do that thing. - What is that one thing?

Support me so that I don't have to work!

That's kind of a big umbrella to throw things under.

You're right, it's so hard because I'm demanding

billions of dollars out of you.

So it's just a number?

There's a number somewhere?

- "I expect this of you." - It's not a number!

"Call me when you've got it."

I don't know, yeah, maybe.

It feels a little bit like a ransom, honestly.

Okay, well if you're not willing to pay it then maybe you

should be married to someone else.

Is that a healthy dynamic?

I don't care!

I'm so tired of having these conversations with you!

Michal, Michal.

- Give some room. - I'm just... I'm so exhausted!

But you're... you're partially exhausted because you are working so hard.

You don't need to do all of that.

Because that's my life with him.

- I can't sit back. - You're here with me!

I always have to be in the driver's seat.

- Can I ask you to pause? - Sure.

What do you think about that?

I would say that she's probably right that I have a

laissez-faire attitude, and I'm just generally comfortable with

how things are.

I just think that life is more manageable if you enjoy it,

and I think that anyone who doesn't take it as a priority is

just gonna fail miserably in one way or another.

How are you feeling?

Very, very angry.

I've enabled you to relax and enjoy your life for the last

decade, and now it's time for you to get up off your ass and

start doing something and stop relaxing.

- Grow your damn law firm! - I am working on that.

I haven't seen you do anything!

I feel so exhausted by this marriage, you know?

It's like two people, and they're in the race,

and in order to get to the finish line, they both have to...

They both have to finish together, right?

Like a three-legged race.

Yeah, you're tied to each other, and I feel like our marriage is

that I am running with all my might.

And I'm dead weight.

I'm running as fast as I possibly can,

and he's inching along, saying, "It's okay, we'll get there."

That has been our marriage, and I am just tired.

Completely what I see right here.

- Yes. - Yes.

I see how hard you're working.

I get it.

Where are you?

- He thinks it's hysterical. - I mean, no...

But you're still doing the work for him.

I'm just... I'm like, at times like this, I'm ready to just

punch him in the face.

But you're doing so much work.

- And it's exhausting to me! - Let me do some work.

Stop it!

Why do you find this funny?!

Sometimes, I feel like I just hate him so much,

I can't stand being around him!

I'm sitting here, and I want to get somewhere,

and I want to fix it, and it's not as though I've sat back for

the past 10 years of our marriage and said, "You know what?

I want more children, so I'm just going to sit around

on my ass and eat bon-bons and pop out kid after kid,

and you figure out a way to support them!"

I've been there with him!

I've been doing everything that I need to do, and what is he doing?

He's laughing!

He thinks that this is funny!

I'm so tired of it.

I get it.

I get it.

It's like what is even the point?

What's the point?

Can you let me do some of the work and you relax?

Yeah, okay.

So how are you feeling when Michal is saying these things?

She's not wrong, like she's aware of the facts as well

- as I am. - Mm-hm.

Like, the reason I was chuckling was I was imagining

Michal running a three-legged race with my son,

and I could imagine her, like, dragging him along,

not caring that he was, like, crying,

and I feel like, "Yeah, I might lose the race if I ran with him,

but I think he'd enjoy it more."

It was more just, like, the absurdity struck me.

How do you feel when, um, Michal is describing you as...

lazy, unable to pull your weight...

- I mean, it hurts. - Exploiting her?

I don't think I'm lazy.

- I think I work pretty hard. - But how do you feel?

I don't like that it hurts her, but I do like that she provokes

me to do more and be better.

So there's something about this dynamic that's working for you?

Right, and that's probably unhealthy for me to just be

like, "Well, that works for me."

But what I'm trying to decipher is whether you're...

there's something about this kind of dynamic of being

provoked that is enjoyable, pleasurable to you?

Or are you actually humiliated?

Or both?

I wouldn't say that it's pleasurable.

I'd say that it's useful.

Funky music

We got pregnant very early.

We'd only been dating for a couple of months before she was pregnant.

It was, uh, a roller coaster, um, and still is.

But you're saying that the fact that it happened at all?

Or that it happened so fast?

I think that it happened so fast.

He wanted to move in right away, and he wanted to start a family,

and I pushed back 'til the very day that he moved in.

But what... What was your suggestion?

I thought that we should take our time.

I didn't think that having a baby meant that we needed to

force a relationship.

You know, at the end of the day, I was already a single parent, so...

You were a single parent...?

Yes, I have another child.

- I see. - Yes.

From a previous relationship?

From a previous marriage.

Got it.

So I kinda learned my mistakes and my lessons,

and I just didn't feel that his view of him needing to be there

was so much more important than us figuring out each other

because were were only together...

So you wanted, in a way, to prioritize the relationship?

Correct, yes.

- Developing slowly. - Yes.

Mm-hm.

I totally understand where she's coming from,

but at the same time, it's like how could you be okay with

having a part-time father for your kid?

And then on top of that, me seeing my child, what, on the weekends?

- Yeah. - No.

So, tell me, how has it been?

I mean, it has its ups and downs.

We're very much separated in the house.

- Um... - What does that mean?

You know, I sleep with the boys, and he sleeps in my eldest son's room.

And are you both happy with that?

No.

That's not the way I want it at all.

That's the way she feels most comfortable.

- Are you happy with that? - I mean, sometimes, yeah.

I need my space.

I have two kids, and sometimes I retreat to my room.

I don't think it's right that the boys see us separated

all the time, and I don't feel, you know,

the love in the house when that happens.

You're missing something that you want.

For sure.

Yeah.

And you?

She's getting what she wants because she's in her room.

Let's hear.

Sorry.

Um, I just...

it's difficult for me because it's just not a comfortable situation.

You know, and I know that he loves me.

I mean, that's for sure.

He won't go!

You know, he always tells me he's not gonna go.

It's forever.

Not in, like, a threatening way, though.

But it's just been hard to, like, have that connection and

kinda want that connection with him.

I'm gonna go back to, uh... Actually, I'll ask both of you.

What do you feel like Tashira would need from you to create

more togetherness?

Um...

I... I really don't know what she needs for her to,

you know, turn around.

I mean, I'm not saying it right but I don't know...

But it's interesting that you don't know.

Maybe you might want to figure that out.

I've tried for so long.

But you seem like you have no idea.

So, it sounds like Dru doesn't have any idea what would... No.

Actually bring you two closer from your end.

- Mm-hm. - Can you say?

Um, more understanding.

You know, I want him to have empathy.

I want him to listen to me.

For me it's just... it's not just touching and hugging and kissing.

I get that he needs affection.

I get that he needs all those things because that's what makes

him who he is.

But I'm not sure Dru feels understood.

No.

How do I not understand you?

Perfect example: You feel that I need affection,

and it's more about being seen.

You're so in with the boys and cooking,

and I appreciate it all to the max,

but I feel like I'm a ghost in the house.

And I feel like I'm a robot.

That I see, and I acknowledge that 100 percent.

Wait.

That sounds meaningful.

That I'm a robot and that he feels like a ghost?

No, I heard Dru say that when you say he needs

affection, you're not hearing him.

That he's saying he feels like a ghost, like you don't see him.

Right, I... I understand that.

Well, you did not convey that.

Your response was, "And I'm a robot."

And that is an issue.

It's always "But this."

It's never... It goes both ways.

You see?

It goes both ways.

Funky music

- Hello. - Good morning.

Hi, sweetheart.

- Good to see you. - Good to see you.

People come in convinced that the problem lives in their

partner, and what they're going to ask me to do is help them

change their partners, so that life gets better,

but that's not the work of couple's therapy.

I think that's right.

It's not just that they want to fix the other person.

They may want to accuse the other person.

Yeah.

They may want justice.

Yeah.

But we have a much bigger agenda.

Yeah.

They come with their own highly developed narratives about

what's going on, and here I come and try to disrupt those

narratives, and people don't like it.

Right.

Sometimes people fight me tooth and nail about it.

I have a lot to say, and then I feel like you're going to, like,

stop me and, like, kinda correct me and critique how I'm doing it.

- Listen, listen... - Why is it my job to have a method to convince him?

- You need... - No, no, no!

- Michal, let me work with you. - See, this is something that bothers me!

But you're doing the same with me!

Why do I need to have a method to teach this person how to adult?

People can get very dug into their view of the other

person, and sometimes it does require a real push

to confront them with the reality that, as convinced

as they are about their story, it's not working.

They have to know that you're going to do what

they hired you to do.

Yeah, that's why they're in my office.

- You okay? - You nervous?

You tired?

Yeah.

I can imagine.

- Sleepy. - Yeah.

- Hello. - Hello.

- Hello. - Welcome.

Thank you.

I recently entered rehab.

I mean, I hit what they call the rock bottom.

Mm-hm.

But just going through that process,

I think that I've realized, um, that there's a lot of

opportunity and things that we could and need to really talk

through and work through.

Some of the things that have happened... Mm-hm.

I think he tends to reflect on them quite frequently.

Mm-hm.

So it's almost as if we're living in my past mistakes.

- I see. - Yeah.

And past behaviors.

So there's still some haunting...

It's kind of like I can't let go.

Like, at the first excuse, I bring it up again.

- Mm-hm. - You know?

So...

Okay, so that's like a big thing the two of you

have been through together.

Right.

But something drew you to each other earlier on.

Yes.

What did you see?

I mean, I've never been into Americans before.

- And then... - Oh!

I've gotta be honest, I always thought my... I was

going to end up with a European guy,

you know, and then I met him, and I was never into red head,

and then, you know, he was really handsome, and we met,

and when we started dating, I was touring a lot for work

because I'm a dancer.

- You're a dancer? - Mm-hm.

- What kind of dancer? - Ballet, contemporary.

I performed in Seattle.

I was dancing in Swan Lake, and he came to see the show,

and, uh, end of the first act, we have a person delivering

flowers to the snow queen, and I was dancing

the prince that night, and then the bows come,

and then he comes on stage, gives the flowers

to the snow queen, and then turns to me,

takes a flower from his pocket and hands to me.

- Oh! - I know.

I was like, "What is he doing?"

And everybody backstage, all the dancers are like, "Aw."

And I still have the flower.

He's showing his love in front of an audience.

It was a huge theater and... it was beautiful.

Yep.

Do you want to say something?

I mean, there's so much to say.

I mean, um...

I'm just very fortunate... You know, this has been the

hardest time in my life, and to have him by my side and...

You know, I've been in other relationships,

and it's always been difficult for me to commit.

You know, I was still very much involved with drugs and alcohol

that, um, I felt like if I committed myself completely

into a relationship with him that I would...

lose my relationship with drugs and alcohol.

Right.

And I think that that...

I mean, I've never said it that way, but I guess... that's it.

Do you want to say something about that, Matthew?

Like, tell me about the... addiction?

I... you know, I would have described myself to be a social

drinker and then... it was...

a very highly-functioning alcoholic.

But alcohol was your substance?

Yeah, alcohol is what took me down.

Keep going.

You know, I... I would drink at happy hour and then it

was... three o'clock and then it was a drink at lunch...

and it progressed to then drinking while I was working to

being physically dependent on alcohol.

How are you feeling saying that?

It's s... it's scary.

I mean, I...

I've found myself in the hospital several times,

not knowing really how I got there.

Because of intoxication?

Yeah, I was giving myself heart problems.

You know, there was a point when we were at the hospital,

and I, you know, they wanted to take all of my blood out and do

a blood transfusion in order to keep me going.

My heart rate was... 175, which was crazy.

So then we started doing stuff to slow his heart down,

and the doctor told him, he was like, "This is caused from alcohol.

You can't drink anymore."

And I would go right back to drinking.

He went right back for drinking.

Right.

It's embarrassing.

Now I have to live with it for the rest of my life and... To live with...?

Just the challenge of everyday, of having to...

you know, to get through the day.

I mean, if I...

You know, if you have a bad day, like, first...

like, my first thought is, "Have a drink."

- It was my best friend. - Yeah.

- And now I don't have it. - Mm-hm.

And you're... available... for a relationship?

I mean, I feel like I finally been with Matthew since when he

went to rehab.

I am finally able to, like, talk to him and be with him and,

like, share life together because before he couldn't even

go through a day, you know, but I knew it was there,

that's why I didn't want to give up on this.

Mm-hm.

How are the two of you feeling talking?

Talking about it now with me, here?

I think it's nice to hear each other.

We couldn't have this conversation in our living room.

- Mm-hm. - You know?

At some point, I feel like we will stop talking.

We just, like, maybe talk briefly and then at some point

just, like, "Okay, let's do something else."

Interesting.

Which makes me think is there something bigger...

like, is there bigger issues there now?

Why aren't we able to sit there and have these types of conversations?

I don't know.

And if we're not on our own...

why not?

Thanks.

- See you next week. - Have a good day.

You too.

- Good night, see you in a week. - Yes.

Come on, we've got to read that book on open marriage.

- Yeah, we do. - Come on, man.

We should just snag it.

The beginning of a treatment is always excitement

and anxiety about whether I'm going to be able to come up with

this thing that they need.

Am I going to get it?

Yep.

Is it going to be too intense for them?

Is this going bring up stuff between them that they are not

ready to deal with?

If there's a treatment where I'm not surprised, I'm not doing my job.

Come, Nico.

You've got a lot of issues to work out

You take it out on society, no doubt

Doubt plus beliefs equals sanity