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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,250 --> 00:00:09,180 My name is JonBenét Ramsey, and I'm 5 1/2. 2 00:00:09,216 --> 00:00:11,016 5 1/2, okay. 3 00:00:11,050 --> 00:00:13,420 Pick one. Two left. 4 00:00:13,450 --> 00:00:15,200 Okay. 5 00:00:15,233 --> 00:00:18,223 "What is your favorite animal at the zoo?" 6 00:00:18,250 --> 00:00:20,000 The monkeys 7 00:00:20,033 --> 00:00:23,323 because they laugh and stuff and hang around. 8 00:00:23,350 --> 00:00:24,380 [ Laughter ] 9 00:00:24,416 --> 00:00:31,246 ♪♪ 10 00:00:31,283 --> 00:00:38,123 ♪♪ 11 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:39,450 Welcome to "How It Really Happened." 12 00:00:39,483 --> 00:00:41,133 I'm Hill Harper. 13 00:00:41,166 --> 00:00:45,026 People have heard the name JonBenét Ramsey for so long now. 14 00:00:45,066 --> 00:00:47,176 It's almost like we forget there was actually a little girl 15 00:00:47,216 --> 00:00:49,026 who lost her life, 16 00:00:49,066 --> 00:00:52,476 a smart, adorable 6-year-old who was brutally murdered. 17 00:00:53,016 --> 00:00:55,396 Over the years, police interviewed nearly 600 people, 18 00:00:55,433 --> 00:00:58,103 took a serious look at more than 100 suspects 19 00:00:58,133 --> 00:01:02,033 and built up an investigative file of more than 60,000 pages, 20 00:01:02,066 --> 00:01:03,476 and yet, despite all that police work, 21 00:01:04,016 --> 00:01:06,046 someone got away with murder. 22 00:01:06,083 --> 00:01:07,273 We sat down with the people who lived 23 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:09,170 and breathed that story back in the day 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,080 to find out how it really happened. 25 00:01:12,116 --> 00:01:20,366 ♪♪ 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,300 I found Boulder to be a gorgeous place 27 00:01:23,333 --> 00:01:25,423 on the front range of the Rockies. 28 00:01:25,450 --> 00:01:29,280 I think it'd be a great place to live. 29 00:01:29,316 --> 00:01:32,166 Zesbaugh: The Ramsey family was so involved in this community. 30 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,270 They'd been there, by now, 5 or 6 years. 31 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:37,230 Patsy Ramsey was kind of a socialite. 32 00:01:37,266 --> 00:01:39,476 John Ramsey was a C.E.O. of a big company. 33 00:01:40,016 --> 00:01:42,296 Phelan: They were avid churchgoers. 34 00:01:42,333 --> 00:01:44,153 They helped others. 35 00:01:44,183 --> 00:01:46,103 They were good people. 36 00:01:46,133 --> 00:01:49,023 Zesbaugh: JonBenét and the cute older brother, Burke, 37 00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:51,270 and her mom and her whole family seemed so loving. 38 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:54,230 Neighbors could only say good things about this family. 39 00:01:54,266 --> 00:01:58,316 This family was the least likely family 40 00:01:58,350 --> 00:02:00,400 to have something horrific happen to, 41 00:02:00,433 --> 00:02:04,133 and then Boulder, of course, itself is a town that's idyllic. 42 00:02:04,166 --> 00:02:05,266 It's peaceful. 43 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:06,480 Boulder at that time, you know, 44 00:02:07,016 --> 00:02:10,126 the idea was that something like this couldn't happen here. 45 00:02:10,166 --> 00:02:11,476 It's just unimaginable that there would be 46 00:02:12,016 --> 00:02:14,316 that kind of crime in that kind of neighborhood. 47 00:02:14,350 --> 00:02:23,170 ♪♪ 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,050 Patterson: The Ramseys, on Christmas Day, 49 00:02:26,083 --> 00:02:29,053 had a normal Christmas Day at home. 50 00:02:29,083 --> 00:02:31,233 Grace: JonBenét got up on what many children 51 00:02:31,266 --> 00:02:34,396 consider to be the greatest day of the year, 52 00:02:34,433 --> 00:02:36,033 saw her presents, 53 00:02:36,066 --> 00:02:39,066 had a wonderful day at home with her family. 54 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:42,000 Patterson: JonBenét was playing with her toys. 55 00:02:42,033 --> 00:02:45,203 Burke, the 9-year-old son, went down the block, 56 00:02:45,233 --> 00:02:48,023 played with one of the kids down the block. 57 00:02:48,050 --> 00:02:51,000 About 4:30, 5:00, Burke came home. 58 00:02:51,033 --> 00:02:52,403 They got cleaned up. 59 00:02:52,433 --> 00:02:57,453 The family went to a Christmas party at a friend's home. 60 00:02:57,483 --> 00:02:59,433 Patterson: The Whites' house. 61 00:02:59,466 --> 00:03:01,396 They had dinner over there. 62 00:03:01,433 --> 00:03:03,423 The kids played and everything. 63 00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:08,280 They arrived back home around 9:30 in the evening. 64 00:03:08,316 --> 00:03:10,366 JonBenét was said to have been so tired, 65 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,350 she actually fell asleep and had to be carried to bed. 66 00:03:14,383 --> 00:03:16,303 Woodward: She was carried into the house by her father, 67 00:03:16,333 --> 00:03:18,203 according to her parents. 68 00:03:18,233 --> 00:03:22,303 They took her up to her room. 69 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:25,470 Patterson: That would've been the last time 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,170 that John and Patsy say that they saw her. 71 00:03:31,016 --> 00:03:33,996 Man: 5:30 a.m. JonBenét's mother, Patsy, 72 00:03:34,033 --> 00:03:35,183 goes downstairs and finds 73 00:03:35,216 --> 00:03:38,166 an apparent ransom note three pages long. 74 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,420 Phelan: Patsy saw the ransom note 75 00:03:40,450 --> 00:03:42,430 on the steps near the kitchen 76 00:03:42,466 --> 00:03:46,396 and...like anyone, freaked out. 77 00:04:09,450 --> 00:04:13,380 Suddenly, frantic phone calls that JonBenét was missing. 78 00:04:13,416 --> 00:04:16,396 After Patsy called 911, she then called her good friends, 79 00:04:16,433 --> 00:04:18,023 Fleet and Priscilla White. 80 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:19,480 They came right over because they had seen 81 00:04:20,016 --> 00:04:21,326 the family just the night before, 82 00:04:21,366 --> 00:04:24,196 hours before at their Christmas party. 83 00:04:24,233 --> 00:04:27,103 Whitson: It was approximately 6:00 in the morning 84 00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:29,203 when I received a -- a page 85 00:04:29,233 --> 00:04:33,223 that we had a 6-year-old girl 86 00:04:33,250 --> 00:04:38,370 who had been kidnapped with a ransom note. 87 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,170 Patterson: My recollection of Patsy when we got to the house 88 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,180 was that she was on the couch in the living room, 89 00:04:46,216 --> 00:04:49,276 kind of in a fetal position, all balled up and everything, 90 00:04:49,316 --> 00:04:54,016 and John was more like somebody in charge. 91 00:04:54,050 --> 00:04:58,200 Mr. Ramsey was very calm, cool and collected. 92 00:04:58,233 --> 00:05:00,473 And they showed the police this ransom note, 93 00:05:01,016 --> 00:05:04,216 which is one of the most bizarre ransom notes 94 00:05:04,250 --> 00:05:06,100 anybody has ever seen. 95 00:05:06,133 --> 00:05:09,073 There were a number of things unusual about the note. 96 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:12,250 Number one, the length of the note was very long -- 97 00:05:12,283 --> 00:05:13,233 three pages. 98 00:05:13,266 --> 00:05:15,016 Walker: I've seen and worked 99 00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:17,080 a number of kidnappings for the FBI, 100 00:05:17,116 --> 00:05:19,216 and most of the notes are very short. 101 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:21,470 They're very terse, very succinct, 102 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,230 and they give very specific instructions 103 00:05:24,266 --> 00:05:26,346 almost like bullet points. 104 00:05:26,383 --> 00:05:29,003 So my first impression was, 105 00:05:29,033 --> 00:05:32,053 "This guy wrote the Magna Carta." 106 00:05:33,350 --> 00:05:35,120 "Listen carefully. 107 00:05:35,150 --> 00:05:37,020 We are a group of individuals 108 00:05:37,050 --> 00:05:40,230 that represent a small foreign faction. 109 00:05:40,266 --> 00:05:43,446 At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. 110 00:05:43,483 --> 00:05:46,353 You must follow our instructions to the letter. 111 00:05:46,383 --> 00:05:51,083 You will withdraw $118,000 from your account." 112 00:05:51,116 --> 00:05:54,266 I have never seen a ransom kidnapping that asks 113 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:59,470 for such a specific amount of money -- $118,000. 114 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,370 "Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police, 115 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,450 FBI, et cetera, will result in your daughter being beheaded." 116 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,370 It was very much directed at John. 117 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,330 It was addressed "Mr. Ramsey." 118 00:06:11,366 --> 00:06:13,376 It was all directed at him, 119 00:06:13,416 --> 00:06:17,166 no reference to Patsy in there that I recall at all. 120 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,080 "Don't try to grow a brain, John. 121 00:06:20,116 --> 00:06:23,376 Use that good Southern common sense of yours." 122 00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:25,376 The note had said that they were gonna call 123 00:06:25,416 --> 00:06:28,266 between 8:00 and 10:00 in the morning. 124 00:06:30,083 --> 00:06:32,303 Costello: So police were searching around the house. 125 00:06:32,333 --> 00:06:35,003 They were trying to figure out how someone might have gotten in 126 00:06:35,033 --> 00:06:36,373 or -- or gotten out. 127 00:06:39,266 --> 00:06:42,226 Patterson: There were no signs of a struggle in the house. 128 00:06:42,266 --> 00:06:44,366 There was no signs of forced entry. 129 00:06:46,266 --> 00:06:48,026 And that's when Mr. Ramsey went upstairs 130 00:06:48,066 --> 00:06:49,266 to wake up his son, Burke. 131 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:51,350 You know, he's 9 years old, and the father is gonna tell him 132 00:06:51,383 --> 00:06:53,423 that his sister is missing. 133 00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:55,270 Patterson: He was awakened 134 00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:57,320 and driven over to the Whites' house 135 00:06:57,350 --> 00:07:00,070 and left for the day. 136 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:03,430 Woodward: There was so much chaos and turmoil in the house. 137 00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:05,366 They wanted to get him away from it. 138 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:11,130 ♪♪ 139 00:07:11,166 --> 00:07:12,296 At this point, we realize, okay, 140 00:07:12,333 --> 00:07:14,323 we haven't had a call from the kidnapper 141 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:16,050 because the kidnapping note said, 142 00:07:16,083 --> 00:07:18,083 "I'm gonna call you between 8 and 10," 143 00:07:18,116 --> 00:07:20,116 and no call has come in. 144 00:07:20,150 --> 00:07:21,350 Hill: The house was filling up. 145 00:07:21,383 --> 00:07:23,423 The family's minister was there, their friends, the Whites, 146 00:07:23,450 --> 00:07:26,120 and also another couple, the Fernies. 147 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:27,350 And they were all out in the living room, 148 00:07:27,383 --> 00:07:28,483 and that's where the discussions 149 00:07:29,016 --> 00:07:32,216 were taking place with Detective Arndt. 150 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:34,070 Hill: By midday, 151 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:36,220 most of the police officers had returned to headquarters 152 00:07:36,250 --> 00:07:39,270 so they could try to figure out what they were dealing with. 153 00:07:42,266 --> 00:07:43,996 Velez-Mitchell: So by about 1:00, 154 00:07:44,033 --> 00:07:45,383 the only detective that was still there 155 00:07:45,416 --> 00:07:47,126 was Detective Linda Arndt, 156 00:07:47,166 --> 00:07:51,066 and it was clear that everybody was just getting antsy. 157 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:53,470 You know, they were, like, frazzled. 158 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,320 "W-what are we gonna do?" 159 00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:58,300 So she suggests to Mr. Ramsey 160 00:07:58,333 --> 00:08:01,223 and his friend, Fleet White, that they go, 161 00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:05,100 and they search the house again just one last time. 162 00:08:05,133 --> 00:08:07,453 John: When I opened the -- the door, 163 00:08:07,483 --> 00:08:11,303 then I turned the light on and I... 164 00:08:11,333 --> 00:08:14,123 [ Sighs ] 165 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:15,220 Patsy: She was down there. 166 00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:16,230 That was her. 167 00:08:23,433 --> 00:08:26,073 Velez-Mitchell: So it was about 8 hours after Patsy Ramsey 168 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:31,230 had called 911 that John Ramsey and his friend, Fleet White, 169 00:08:31,266 --> 00:08:35,216 searched the house one last time. 170 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:39,380 We waited until after the time that the call 171 00:08:39,416 --> 00:08:42,446 was supposed to have been made to us, 172 00:08:42,483 --> 00:08:47,053 and one of the detectives asked me and my friend 173 00:08:47,083 --> 00:08:50,203 who was there to go through every inch of the house to see 174 00:08:50,233 --> 00:08:53,323 if there was anything that was unusual or abnormal, 175 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:56,300 looked out of place. 176 00:08:56,333 --> 00:09:01,473 So we started in the basement, 177 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,280 and we're just looking. 178 00:09:03,316 --> 00:09:10,366 John says he then moved to the storage closet. 179 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,350 John: When I opened the -- the door 180 00:09:12,383 --> 00:09:14,083 and turned the light on... 181 00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:18,280 Patsy: She was down there. 182 00:09:18,316 --> 00:09:20,126 That was her. 183 00:09:20,166 --> 00:09:22,066 Woman: The body of JonBenét Ramsey, 184 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:23,120 strangled and beaten, 185 00:09:23,150 --> 00:09:24,320 is found in the basement 186 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:27,000 of her parent's Boulder, Colorado, home. 187 00:09:27,033 --> 00:09:29,133 John: I picked her up, and I just screamed, 188 00:09:29,166 --> 00:09:30,296 the -- the -- the -- the kind of scream you scream 189 00:09:30,333 --> 00:09:33,083 in a dream when you -- you -- you -- 190 00:09:33,116 --> 00:09:34,476 you're trying to speak, but you can't. 191 00:09:35,016 --> 00:09:36,126 It's just a scream. 192 00:09:36,166 --> 00:09:39,146 Woodward: Rigor mortis had already sent in, 193 00:09:39,183 --> 00:09:40,373 and he was in -- 194 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,030 I guess you would call it such shock. 195 00:09:43,066 --> 00:09:46,076 When I brought JonBenét up, Linda Arndt knelt over and -- 196 00:09:46,116 --> 00:09:49,076 And, I guess, felt for a pulse and looked at me, 197 00:09:49,116 --> 00:09:51,016 said, "She's dead." 198 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:53,280 At that point, kind of pandemonium 199 00:09:53,316 --> 00:09:56,116 broke out in the house. 200 00:09:56,150 --> 00:10:01,200 I remember seeing Mrs. Ramsey crying profusely. 201 00:10:01,233 --> 00:10:04,053 It was a mother's wail, 202 00:10:04,083 --> 00:10:08,023 rocking back and forth and holding JonBenét. 203 00:10:08,050 --> 00:10:10,150 Nobody could say anything. 204 00:10:10,183 --> 00:10:12,133 What do you say when that happens? 205 00:10:12,166 --> 00:10:15,326 There's nothing you can say to make it any better. 206 00:10:17,366 --> 00:10:21,226 Woodward: This little girl was tortured. 207 00:10:21,266 --> 00:10:23,096 Very few people realize that. 208 00:10:23,133 --> 00:10:25,383 Zesbaugh: She had a garotte around her throat 209 00:10:25,416 --> 00:10:29,266 and a nylon cord that was tied around her throat very tightly, 210 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:31,250 leaving a lot of rope burns. 211 00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:36,250 A ligature strangulation around the neck, now, that is serious. 212 00:10:36,283 --> 00:10:38,333 That's a very violent death. 213 00:10:38,366 --> 00:10:41,326 And I remember my first thought was, 214 00:10:41,366 --> 00:10:43,996 "I want to catch the person that did this." 215 00:10:44,033 --> 00:10:46,223 Camerota: So imagine this scenario -- 216 00:10:46,250 --> 00:10:49,120 The family and a couple friends are sitting around, 217 00:10:49,150 --> 00:10:52,320 and they're waiting for a kidnapper to get in contact, 218 00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:57,250 and then the father finds the body. 219 00:10:57,283 --> 00:11:00,233 Patterson: A lot of things didn't make sense. 220 00:11:00,266 --> 00:11:04,166 If, in fact, she was killed 221 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,450 while they were "attempting to kidnap her," 222 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,200 why would they leave a ransom note 223 00:11:09,233 --> 00:11:11,153 with her body still in the house? 224 00:11:11,183 --> 00:11:14,103 Walker: The only thing I could think of was, 225 00:11:14,133 --> 00:11:15,283 "This is now a murder case. 226 00:11:15,316 --> 00:11:17,046 It's not a kidnapping." 227 00:11:17,083 --> 00:11:22,003 My God, what -- what a mess this crime scene 228 00:11:22,033 --> 00:11:26,433 has been made of by all these people walking around, 229 00:11:26,466 --> 00:11:28,266 touching this, touching that. 230 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:29,450 You know, who knows who was upstairs? 231 00:11:29,483 --> 00:11:31,353 Who knows who was downstairs? 232 00:11:31,383 --> 00:11:33,123 In the eyes of a lot of people, 233 00:11:33,150 --> 00:11:35,070 this home has been completely contaminated 234 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:36,150 as far as a crime scene. 235 00:11:36,183 --> 00:11:40,283 I think the cops probably went, "Oh, no." 236 00:11:40,316 --> 00:11:43,376 In this split second, the police are now no longer 237 00:11:43,416 --> 00:11:46,096 looking for her kidnapper. 238 00:11:46,133 --> 00:11:49,173 Now they're looking for the killer of JonBenét. 239 00:11:51,166 --> 00:11:53,196 Hill: But instead of interrogating the Ramseys right then, 240 00:11:53,233 --> 00:11:55,073 they actually asked everyone to leave the house 241 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:57,270 so they could secure the crime scene. 242 00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:59,030 Woodward: They should've been told, "Come with us. 243 00:11:59,066 --> 00:12:02,166 Let's go to police headquarters. Let's sort this out." 244 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,380 Instead, they went to a friend's house. 245 00:12:06,416 --> 00:12:08,346 Zesbaugh: Then it was interesting 246 00:12:08,383 --> 00:12:11,253 over the next few days to see the Ramseys lawyer up. 247 00:12:11,283 --> 00:12:13,423 John got his own lawyer. Patsy got her own lawyer. 248 00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:15,320 They each got press people 249 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:18,030 and PR people to help them craft statements. 250 00:12:18,066 --> 00:12:20,116 And these high-powered lawyers tell them, 251 00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:21,450 "Don't talk to the police." 252 00:12:21,483 --> 00:12:23,103 Man 2: What is the status 253 00:12:23,133 --> 00:12:25,153 in regards to a formal sit-down interview? 254 00:12:25,183 --> 00:12:27,173 We are working obviously through their attorneys now, 255 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,100 which they have both secured. 256 00:12:29,133 --> 00:12:31,323 I think if you ask anybody on the street, 257 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:33,420 one of the first things they'll say is, 258 00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:37,420 "Gee, if this were my kid, I'd be -- 259 00:12:37,450 --> 00:12:40,120 I'd let them interview me 100 times, 260 00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:41,380 whatever it would take." 261 00:12:41,416 --> 00:12:44,166 Patterson: That's kind of the feeling that we had is, 262 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:45,300 "Why are they doing this? 263 00:12:45,333 --> 00:12:48,403 Why -- why aren't they cooperating?" 264 00:12:48,433 --> 00:12:54,483 ♪♪ 265 00:12:55,016 --> 00:13:01,066 ♪♪ 266 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,230 Man 3: One might say, "Wait a minute. 267 00:13:03,266 --> 00:13:05,066 The parents would be suspects 268 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:08,070 or at least early on would be looked at as suspects. 269 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,400 Why would they be allowed to leave the state 270 00:13:10,433 --> 00:13:12,423 if they hadn't been formally interviewed?" 271 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:16,270 There was no legal reason for us to detain the Ramseys. 272 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:17,450 They were not under arrest. 273 00:13:17,483 --> 00:13:19,233 They were not being held. 274 00:13:19,266 --> 00:13:22,166 No one had been formally identified as a suspect, 275 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,220 and we had no legal grounds on which to detain them 276 00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:26,270 from going to their daughter's funeral. 277 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,000 Man 4: A grief-stricken family said goodbye 278 00:13:29,033 --> 00:13:31,103 to 6-year-old JonBenét Ramsey Tuesday. 279 00:13:31,133 --> 00:13:32,473 Services were held in the very church 280 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,330 where JonBenét was baptized more than 5 years ago 281 00:13:35,366 --> 00:13:37,316 before her family moved. 282 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:39,430 I can tell you that the heart of God 283 00:13:39,466 --> 00:13:47,126 is broken by the tragic death of JonBenét Ramsey. 284 00:13:47,166 --> 00:13:49,126 Man 4: The questions persist, 285 00:13:49,166 --> 00:13:52,116 "Why a ransom note if the child was killed? 286 00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:54,300 Why was her body in the basement? 287 00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:57,323 And above all, why this little girl?" 288 00:13:57,350 --> 00:14:03,050 ♪♪ 289 00:14:03,083 --> 00:14:05,483 And then the very next day after burying their daughter, 290 00:14:06,016 --> 00:14:10,066 the Ramseys decide to talk but not with the police. 291 00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:12,370 They speak with CNN in Atlanta. 292 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,130 Cabell: Okay. Well, let me start out first of all. 293 00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:18,176 Why did you decide you wanted to talk? 294 00:14:18,216 --> 00:14:20,046 They had not yet really given 295 00:14:20,083 --> 00:14:24,203 any kind of substantive interviews with police, 296 00:14:24,233 --> 00:14:26,433 and they're on national television 297 00:14:26,466 --> 00:14:28,996 talking about this case. 298 00:14:29,033 --> 00:14:31,373 Cabell: An FBI spokesman was quoted as saying, 299 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,280 "At this point, they don't regard it 300 00:14:33,316 --> 00:14:36,066 necessarily as a kidnapping." 301 00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:40,000 Doesn't sound like kidnapping to me. 302 00:14:40,033 --> 00:14:42,123 Got to wonder what happened. 303 00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:47,020 W-was this a true attempt to... 304 00:14:47,050 --> 00:14:48,400 I don't know. ...get ransom? 305 00:14:48,433 --> 00:14:51,403 It does -- it makes no sense to me. 306 00:14:51,433 --> 00:14:53,253 I don't know. 307 00:14:53,283 --> 00:14:57,023 You believe it's someone outside your home? 308 00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:58,400 There is a killer on the loose. 309 00:14:58,433 --> 00:15:00,383 Absolutely. 310 00:15:00,416 --> 00:15:03,016 I don't know who it is. 311 00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:06,300 I don't know if it's a he or a she. 312 00:15:08,033 --> 00:15:11,323 But if I were a resident of Boulder, 313 00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:16,330 I would tell my friends to keep... 314 00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:19,296 It's okay. 315 00:15:19,333 --> 00:15:23,303 ...keep your babies close to you. 316 00:15:23,333 --> 00:15:27,103 There's someone out there. 317 00:15:27,133 --> 00:15:30,053 Prendergast: It was -- it was a somewhat histrionic interview 318 00:15:30,083 --> 00:15:31,453 by Patsy Ramsey in particular, 319 00:15:31,483 --> 00:15:34,323 who didn't look like she was in any kind of condition 320 00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:36,020 to be on -- on television. 321 00:15:36,050 --> 00:15:37,280 Cabell: When you return to Boulder, 322 00:15:37,316 --> 00:15:39,266 you will sit down with the Boulder police? 323 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,270 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 324 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:46,480 We want them to know everything possible -- 325 00:15:47,016 --> 00:15:48,046 Everything. 326 00:15:48,083 --> 00:15:49,053 if it can help them. 327 00:15:49,083 --> 00:15:50,283 Whatever they want. 328 00:15:50,316 --> 00:15:54,446 Whatever anyone wants, we will cooperate. 329 00:15:54,483 --> 00:15:57,203 Man 2: Did it surprise anybody with the police department 330 00:15:57,233 --> 00:15:59,433 that this interview was conducted on CNN 331 00:15:59,466 --> 00:16:01,396 given the fact that they hadn't been formally interviewed 332 00:16:01,433 --> 00:16:03,473 by the police department? 333 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,170 I think it would be very safe to say 334 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,000 police were very surprised at the interview. 335 00:16:07,033 --> 00:16:09,453 They did not know it was going to happen. 336 00:16:09,483 --> 00:16:12,283 They were as taken aback as anybody else. 337 00:16:12,316 --> 00:16:14,266 Walker: What's interesting is, you know, 338 00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:15,430 the Ramseys go on television 339 00:16:15,466 --> 00:16:17,426 to say that they fully cooperated with the police. 340 00:16:17,466 --> 00:16:19,066 They've given statements for the police, 341 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:20,280 and that was total B.S. 342 00:16:20,316 --> 00:16:23,346 There was a pendulum swing where you thought initially, "Okay. 343 00:16:23,383 --> 00:16:25,033 This family had nothing to do with it." 344 00:16:25,066 --> 00:16:27,196 But then the weird CNN interview 345 00:16:27,233 --> 00:16:30,203 where Patsy Ramsey looked drugged up, 346 00:16:30,233 --> 00:16:32,473 John Ramsey looked irritated with her 347 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,370 and very, very icy and stoney, and then you got sort of 348 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,130 the personalities of these two people. 349 00:16:37,166 --> 00:16:38,276 "Is this who's involved? 350 00:16:38,316 --> 00:16:40,466 Maybe they did have something to do with it". 351 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Hill: So when the Ramseys got back to Boulder 352 00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:44,080 after their daughter's funeral, 353 00:16:44,116 --> 00:16:47,246 the media was all there waiting for them, 354 00:16:47,283 --> 00:16:49,183 but so were the police. 355 00:16:49,216 --> 00:16:51,046 Woodward: And this police officer, 356 00:16:51,083 --> 00:16:52,223 he just burst into the room, 357 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:53,300 you know, "You can't believe what I've got. 358 00:16:53,333 --> 00:16:55,073 You can't believe this. 359 00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:57,100 You got to look at this piece of paper." 360 00:17:01,066 --> 00:17:04,146 Woman 2: 15, JonBenét Ramsey. 361 00:17:04,183 --> 00:17:05,483 JonBenét, hi. 362 00:17:06,016 --> 00:17:07,046 Costello: Around this time, 363 00:17:07,083 --> 00:17:08,323 the media gets ahold of this video, 364 00:17:08,350 --> 00:17:11,200 and it showed little JonBenét Ramsey 365 00:17:11,233 --> 00:17:15,283 dressed up like a grown-up woman in a beauty pageant. 366 00:17:15,316 --> 00:17:19,426 She has makeup on and -- and lipstick and big hair, 367 00:17:19,466 --> 00:17:24,066 and it was just bizarre to see something like that. 368 00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:26,420 Why did she do the -- the pageants? 369 00:17:26,450 --> 00:17:28,070 She loved it. We had a great time. 370 00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:29,450 She liked it herself? She was -- she -- she loved it. 371 00:17:29,483 --> 00:17:30,473 JonBenét was an entertainer. 372 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,170 She loved to entertain. 373 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,130 And you encouraged it? Absolutely. 374 00:17:35,166 --> 00:17:37,366 Were you a stage mother, honestly? 375 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,100 Probably. Yeah, that was you. 376 00:17:39,133 --> 00:17:40,203 What's wrong with that? 377 00:17:40,233 --> 00:17:44,153 She was in those child beauty pageants, 378 00:17:44,183 --> 00:17:47,323 which turned everybody against her and her family. 379 00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:50,080 I think that's the biggest crime of all. 380 00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:52,066 At that time, not a lot of people knew a lot 381 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:53,230 about child beauty pageants, 382 00:17:53,266 --> 00:17:56,316 but Patsy Ramsey was a former beauty queen. 383 00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:57,470 She'd been Miss West Virginia, 384 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,430 so this was a world that she knew pretty well. 385 00:18:00,466 --> 00:18:04,016 She introduced her to it to see if she liked it, and she waited 386 00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:07,430 till she was, like, 4 or 5 to gave her a choice. 387 00:18:07,466 --> 00:18:09,426 "Do you think you want to go up there and do that?" 388 00:18:09,466 --> 00:18:12,416 And -- and the child is kind of just a natural performer 389 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:14,380 and said, "Yes." 390 00:18:14,416 --> 00:18:16,076 Woman 3: Congratulations. 391 00:18:16,116 --> 00:18:18,396 Grant: It started with those videos 392 00:18:18,433 --> 00:18:20,403 of JonBenét and her outfits. 393 00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:26,083 Juxtaposing that with the horrendous killing, 394 00:18:26,116 --> 00:18:29,076 it just lends itself to sensationalism. 395 00:18:31,166 --> 00:18:34,096 Cabell: This started out as a simple but tragic murder 396 00:18:34,133 --> 00:18:36,083 of a child beauty queen, 397 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:38,466 but then questions arose, curiosity arose, 398 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,380 and suddenly the media descended on Boulder. 399 00:18:44,133 --> 00:18:47,153 It became a media frenzy. 400 00:18:48,466 --> 00:18:50,146 Reporters, producers, 401 00:18:50,183 --> 00:18:53,323 photographers and the tabloids were there. 402 00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:56,450 We are told now that as many as 300 media representatives 403 00:18:56,483 --> 00:19:00,083 may be here right now following this story. 404 00:19:00,116 --> 00:19:02,276 Prendergast: So suddenly, there was a national press here 405 00:19:02,316 --> 00:19:04,396 and a pretty aggressive press, 406 00:19:04,433 --> 00:19:07,403 much more than Boulder was used to. 407 00:19:07,433 --> 00:19:09,033 Estrich: I want to say nothing negative 408 00:19:09,066 --> 00:19:10,396 about a family going through hell, 409 00:19:10,433 --> 00:19:13,073 but why the hell aren't they talking to the police? 410 00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:14,280 I just don't understand. 411 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:16,226 Parshall: This is a bizarre case, a mother and father 412 00:19:16,266 --> 00:19:18,316 who get their own attorney, who get their own spokespeople, 413 00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:20,430 who don't immediately begin to cooperate 414 00:19:20,466 --> 00:19:23,066 and talk with the police to try to find the killer. 415 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:24,320 They wait. 416 00:19:24,350 --> 00:19:26,320 Why don't the police just take them downtown 417 00:19:26,350 --> 00:19:27,270 and talk to them? 418 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,170 Is that just not possible? 419 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,120 It doesn't work that way in a democracy, ma'am. 420 00:19:31,150 --> 00:19:33,430 You are entitled to Constitutional protections. 421 00:19:33,466 --> 00:19:37,216 You can't be dragged down and forced to participate in a -- 422 00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:39,080 In a formal police interview. 423 00:19:39,116 --> 00:19:41,146 Even though the Ramseys weren't talking, 424 00:19:41,183 --> 00:19:43,233 the police were actually making some headway 425 00:19:43,266 --> 00:19:45,196 with that ransom note. 426 00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:51,070 I asked Mr. Ramsey for a sample 427 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:54,370 of his and Mrs. Ramsey's handwriting, 428 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,420 and he gave me two notepads. 429 00:19:58,450 --> 00:20:02,170 These pads were pads that were kept by the telephone, 430 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,230 and each John and Patsy had their own pads. 431 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,080 Camerota: When the experts compared the tear patterns 432 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:13,996 from the ransom note to Patsy's note pad, 433 00:20:14,033 --> 00:20:17,183 they made a remarkable discovery. 434 00:20:17,216 --> 00:20:18,996 Woodward: Within about 15 minutes, came back, 435 00:20:19,033 --> 00:20:22,023 and he just burst into the room, this conference room. 436 00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:23,080 You know, "You can't believe what I've got. 437 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:24,366 You can't believe this. 438 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,130 You got to look at this piece of paper." 439 00:20:26,166 --> 00:20:28,346 It turned out that the kidnapper 440 00:20:28,383 --> 00:20:32,473 had written the ransom note on Patsy's note pad. 441 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,400 And this police officer, who was in that meeting, 442 00:20:34,433 --> 00:20:36,483 said everybody looks at each other and says 443 00:20:37,016 --> 00:20:40,996 "Oh, my gosh. What's going on here? 444 00:20:41,033 --> 00:20:46,083 These people may have done something to their daughter, 445 00:20:46,116 --> 00:20:48,166 and we need to look at this completely differently." 446 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,130 Whitson: That's the first tidbit of information that we had 447 00:20:53,166 --> 00:20:58,096 that made it look like the Ramseys were possible suspects. 448 00:20:58,133 --> 00:21:00,083 They may have been involved with this. 449 00:21:00,116 --> 00:21:02,146 Velez-Mitchell: So after weeks of searching for clues, 450 00:21:02,183 --> 00:21:05,273 the police come up with another clue. 451 00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:10,000 They find that the garotte, made of a broken paintbrush, 452 00:21:10,033 --> 00:21:13,453 that paintbrush actually belonged to Patsy Ramsey. 453 00:21:13,483 --> 00:21:16,103 I think at the time, people thought it was interesting 454 00:21:16,133 --> 00:21:18,273 that, "A," there was a paintbrush involved in it 455 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,200 that was Patsy Ramsey's that was kept in the basement. 456 00:21:21,233 --> 00:21:23,333 Also, the ransom note was written off a pad 457 00:21:23,366 --> 00:21:25,296 that was found in the home. 458 00:21:25,333 --> 00:21:28,273 Who writes a ransom note inside the home and leaves it there? 459 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:30,000 It's either the father or the mother. 460 00:21:30,033 --> 00:21:32,353 I mean, this is what everybody in America pretty much thinks. 461 00:21:32,383 --> 00:21:33,303 That's right. Yeah. 462 00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:34,353 The question is, which one? 463 00:21:34,383 --> 00:21:36,273 Were they together on the deal? 464 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:39,020 Everybody thought the Ramseys had some involvement in it. 465 00:21:39,050 --> 00:21:43,450 We know that, the next morning, the Ramseys were getting ready 466 00:21:43,483 --> 00:21:46,453 to leave to go to Charlevoix, Michigan, 467 00:21:46,483 --> 00:21:49,033 to enjoy the rest of the holiday. 468 00:21:49,066 --> 00:21:53,066 There's just no way that this was an intentional act. 469 00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:57,430 The only logical explanation for this offense 470 00:21:57,466 --> 00:22:02,076 is that it's an accident followed by a cover-up. 471 00:22:02,116 --> 00:22:05,046 It is the only logical explanation. 472 00:22:05,083 --> 00:22:06,303 Van Susteren: The only thing, obviously, the -- 473 00:22:06,333 --> 00:22:08,253 The child obviously was very well taken care of. 474 00:22:08,283 --> 00:22:10,123 She had the best of everything, 475 00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:12,070 and the only sort of thing is whether or not -- 476 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:13,100 Did you lose your -- 477 00:22:13,133 --> 00:22:14,283 you know, could someone lose his temper? 478 00:22:14,316 --> 00:22:15,366 No. 479 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,400 You know, that, I mean, that was the only thing. 480 00:22:16,433 --> 00:22:18,053 That was the -- the -- 481 00:22:18,083 --> 00:22:19,173 Greta, the key point -- people say, "well, you know, 482 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,370 80% of the time, 60%, it's the parents." 483 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,330 In every case, I will bet in -- 484 00:22:24,366 --> 00:22:26,446 Where a parent has murdered or harmed a child, 485 00:22:26,483 --> 00:22:29,283 there's been a previous history of that. 486 00:22:29,316 --> 00:22:31,276 The problem with the "accident" theory -- 487 00:22:31,316 --> 00:22:33,046 What kind of accident 488 00:22:33,083 --> 00:22:37,223 would cause a parent to kill their child? 489 00:22:37,250 --> 00:22:39,420 The most common trigger in older children 490 00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:42,250 who are killed is a toileting accident 491 00:22:42,283 --> 00:22:44,433 that leads to an explosion of rage 492 00:22:44,466 --> 00:22:48,346 and either a severe injury or occasionally a murder. 493 00:22:48,383 --> 00:22:50,033 Blitzer: Even bed-wetting could -- 494 00:22:50,066 --> 00:22:52,196 Could lead to this kind of a -- a -- a criminal act. 495 00:22:52,233 --> 00:22:54,403 I've seen dozens of cases where bed-wetting led 496 00:22:54,433 --> 00:22:56,123 to this kind of an act. 497 00:22:56,150 --> 00:22:58,100 Now, she had a bed-wetting problem, 498 00:22:58,133 --> 00:23:02,383 a serious bed-wetting problem, that was ongoing for years, 499 00:23:02,416 --> 00:23:05,396 even at this particular age, age 5 and 6. 500 00:23:05,433 --> 00:23:09,273 That was one of the theories that was out there, 501 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,330 that JonBenét had wet the bed 502 00:23:12,366 --> 00:23:14,176 and that Mrs. Ramsey 503 00:23:14,216 --> 00:23:17,116 went into a fit of rage over that. 504 00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:19,080 Velez-Mitchell: But the Ramseys' friends, 505 00:23:19,116 --> 00:23:20,996 they were having none of this idea, 506 00:23:21,033 --> 00:23:23,173 that John and Patsy murdered their own child. 507 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,220 I mean, to them, it seemed completely preposterous. 508 00:23:27,250 --> 00:23:29,030 It is just ludicrous. 509 00:23:29,066 --> 00:23:31,246 There is just -- there's no way. 510 00:23:31,283 --> 00:23:34,073 When you heard of this murder, 511 00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:36,100 first time you heard of it, where were you, 512 00:23:36,133 --> 00:23:37,283 and what did you think? 513 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:40,226 I was at work, and a mutual friend called from Denver, 514 00:23:40,266 --> 00:23:43,226 and I, you know, went numb, couldn't imagine it. 515 00:23:43,266 --> 00:23:46,446 And I guess what really got me was when I started 516 00:23:46,483 --> 00:23:48,333 realizing that they were suspecting them. 517 00:23:48,366 --> 00:23:50,066 I mean, that just blew my mind. 518 00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:51,170 It couldn't happen. Because? 519 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,450 Because they're such wonderful people. 520 00:23:53,483 --> 00:23:57,073 I think people want to believe the best in people 521 00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,300 until they're given a reason to believe the worst in people, 522 00:24:00,333 --> 00:24:05,103 and the sensationalist media gave people a reason 523 00:24:05,133 --> 00:24:09,203 to believe the worst about the Ramseys, wasn't evidence-based. 524 00:24:09,233 --> 00:24:11,423 It was based on media coverage. 525 00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,470 Then the case takes this shocking U-turn. 526 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,120 A new detective comes in, an outsider, goes back through 527 00:24:17,150 --> 00:24:18,430 all the evidence and tells the police, 528 00:24:18,466 --> 00:24:20,326 "You know what? You're wrong." 529 00:24:20,366 --> 00:24:23,416 Perhaps, at first, I leaned towards the parents doing it 530 00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:25,430 only because of what I had read 531 00:24:25,466 --> 00:24:27,476 and what I'd seen on television, 532 00:24:28,016 --> 00:24:30,416 but as I got into the case, I started seeing red flags, 533 00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:32,350 which started pointing the other way. 534 00:24:37,016 --> 00:24:39,096 Welcome back to "How It Really Happened." 535 00:24:39,133 --> 00:24:42,103 As detectives dug deeper into the JonBenét Ramsey case, 536 00:24:42,133 --> 00:24:45,273 some of them believed all signs were pointing to Patsy Ramsey. 537 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,170 Their colleagues at the Boulder D.A.'s office were split. 538 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,380 Some bought into the police theory, 539 00:24:49,416 --> 00:24:51,246 but others weren't so sure. 540 00:24:51,283 --> 00:24:53,003 Three months into the investigation, 541 00:24:53,033 --> 00:24:54,203 it was in disarray. 542 00:24:54,233 --> 00:24:56,003 The D.A., Alex Hunter, 543 00:24:56,033 --> 00:24:57,433 needed an objective take on the case. 544 00:24:57,466 --> 00:25:00,196 What he didn't expect was for that take 545 00:25:00,233 --> 00:25:03,023 to turn the investigation upside down. 546 00:25:05,266 --> 00:25:07,316 Hill: When the autopsy report was released 547 00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:10,220 and we found out how this little girl died, 548 00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:12,350 all of a sudden, it seemed really surprising 549 00:25:12,383 --> 00:25:16,033 for many people that the parents could've been involved at all. 550 00:25:16,066 --> 00:25:18,046 The autopsy does not read like an accident. 551 00:25:18,083 --> 00:25:20,153 It reads like a violent attack. 552 00:25:20,183 --> 00:25:22,433 It's a horrible death. 553 00:25:22,466 --> 00:25:26,016 Man 5: JonBenét Ramsey, 6 years old, had been strangled, 554 00:25:26,050 --> 00:25:28,470 had her mouth duct-taped, her hands bound, 555 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,280 her skull fractured. 556 00:25:30,316 --> 00:25:32,396 Whitson: If you believe Patsy Ramsey 557 00:25:32,433 --> 00:25:34,133 did this to her daughter, 558 00:25:34,166 --> 00:25:36,216 you have to believe she did all these things 559 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:42,200 and that then she had the whereabouts to sit down 560 00:25:42,233 --> 00:25:46,103 and write this ransom note. 561 00:25:46,133 --> 00:25:49,003 And there was one more horrifying detail 562 00:25:49,033 --> 00:25:51,353 in the autopsy report. 563 00:25:51,383 --> 00:25:56,253 Dr. Spitz: It's quite evident that there has been an assault 564 00:25:56,283 --> 00:26:00,333 that is interpretable as being sexual. 565 00:26:00,366 --> 00:26:04,446 There are other questions that relate to that, of course. 566 00:26:04,483 --> 00:26:07,203 Velez-Mitchell: When the news came out 567 00:26:07,233 --> 00:26:09,133 that JonBenét Ramsey had been sexually assaulted, 568 00:26:09,166 --> 00:26:13,126 rumors just started flying that maybe the father was involved. 569 00:26:13,166 --> 00:26:14,316 Spence: We've got enough information 570 00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:15,480 that 80% of the people 571 00:26:16,016 --> 00:26:18,416 think that the murderer in this case was the father. 572 00:26:18,450 --> 00:26:21,020 So, you know, the suggestion has always been, 573 00:26:21,050 --> 00:26:22,430 I'm sorry, John, but that you had 574 00:26:22,466 --> 00:26:25,026 somehow been involved with your child sexually. 575 00:26:25,066 --> 00:26:28,026 But the doctor who saw her regularly said, "No." 576 00:26:28,066 --> 00:26:30,116 It was almost like a fiction of the media. 577 00:26:30,150 --> 00:26:33,000 We were accused of -- of -- it was just bizarre. 578 00:26:33,033 --> 00:26:35,253 We were accused of taking her to the doctor too many times. 579 00:26:35,283 --> 00:26:36,353 She'd been to the -- see the doctor 580 00:26:36,383 --> 00:26:40,053 30 times in 2 years, the same doctor. 581 00:26:40,083 --> 00:26:41,183 King: Why? 582 00:26:41,216 --> 00:26:42,416 We had a good health-insurance program. 583 00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:44,320 Patsy: He enumerated it, bronchitis -- 584 00:26:44,350 --> 00:26:46,220 He just did all the -- she had asthma. 585 00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:50,400 You know, the doctor was 5 minutes away. 586 00:26:50,433 --> 00:26:53,033 Most of the experts agree 587 00:26:53,066 --> 00:26:57,016 that there was a sexual assault that night 588 00:26:57,050 --> 00:27:02,130 but that there was no prior sexual abuse. 589 00:27:02,166 --> 00:27:07,326 Four people testified that there was no prior sexual abuse. 590 00:27:07,366 --> 00:27:09,116 Costello: Speculation is continuing 591 00:27:09,150 --> 00:27:10,200 to fly around who did this. 592 00:27:10,233 --> 00:27:13,053 Like, was it JonBenét's mother, Patsy? 593 00:27:13,083 --> 00:27:15,153 Was it her dad, John? 594 00:27:15,183 --> 00:27:16,473 Well, the D.A. at this time has -- 595 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,180 has an idea of someone who can help him figure this out, 596 00:27:19,216 --> 00:27:21,466 and his name was detective Lou Smit. 597 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,450 Grant: Lou, in my mind, was an excellent investigator, 598 00:27:27,483 --> 00:27:31,403 a plotter, a fella who -- 599 00:27:31,433 --> 00:27:34,123 who went inch by inch over crime scenes 600 00:27:34,150 --> 00:27:35,320 and over investigations 601 00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:38,450 and didn't leave any stones unturned. 602 00:27:38,483 --> 00:27:42,083 Man 6: What's your attitude approaching this case? 603 00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:47,076 Great optimism, I'd say, and I'm ready to -- 604 00:27:47,116 --> 00:27:50,996 I'm really anxious to go to work and see what they got. 605 00:27:51,033 --> 00:27:52,173 And despite all these clues out there 606 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,330 that seemed to point to the Ramseys, this detective, 607 00:27:54,366 --> 00:27:57,446 he had a completely different idea. 608 00:27:57,483 --> 00:28:01,033 Perhaps, at first, I leaned towards the parents doing it 609 00:28:01,066 --> 00:28:03,046 only because of what I had read 610 00:28:03,083 --> 00:28:05,103 and what I'd seen on television, 611 00:28:05,133 --> 00:28:08,023 but as I got into the case, I started seeing red flags, 612 00:28:08,050 --> 00:28:10,350 which started pointing the other way. 613 00:28:10,383 --> 00:28:14,133 Lou Smit was a well-respected veteran police detective, 614 00:28:14,166 --> 00:28:17,116 had worked successfully on many cases. 615 00:28:17,150 --> 00:28:18,330 Costello: And there was really this feeling 616 00:28:18,366 --> 00:28:22,346 that this guy could really crack the case. 617 00:28:22,383 --> 00:28:25,153 Zesbaugh: Lou Smit found evidence in the crime scene 618 00:28:25,183 --> 00:28:28,103 that he thought directly pointed away from the Ramseys 619 00:28:28,133 --> 00:28:29,403 and to an intruder. 620 00:28:29,433 --> 00:28:32,473 I believe that, sometime 621 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,230 during December 25, 1996... 622 00:28:37,266 --> 00:28:39,266 King: Christmas night. ...Christmas night, 623 00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:42,420 someone got into the house of John and Patsy Ramsey. 624 00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:46,130 I believe there is some evidence to suggest strongly 625 00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:50,316 that he may have come in through a basement window. 626 00:28:50,350 --> 00:28:54,000 There was a scuff mark down the wall. 627 00:28:54,033 --> 00:28:55,303 There was leaves and debris on the floor 628 00:28:55,333 --> 00:28:57,053 directly below that open window. 629 00:28:57,083 --> 00:28:59,423 There was also foliage under the grate 630 00:28:59,450 --> 00:29:02,450 that covers this window well, which would indicate 631 00:29:02,483 --> 00:29:05,203 that someone may have opened and shut the grate. 632 00:29:05,233 --> 00:29:07,183 Also, there was the suitcase 633 00:29:07,216 --> 00:29:09,226 that was placed below the window. 634 00:29:09,266 --> 00:29:11,316 According to John Ramsey, 635 00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:14,270 that suitcase was not underneath that window 636 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:16,480 prior to that night. 637 00:29:17,016 --> 00:29:18,296 John Ramsey said that that's not 638 00:29:18,333 --> 00:29:20,333 where suitcases are normally kept. 639 00:29:20,366 --> 00:29:23,226 There is evidence on top of that suitcase, 640 00:29:23,266 --> 00:29:27,146 a very small, tiny, pea-sized piece of glass, 641 00:29:27,183 --> 00:29:31,133 which could've come off the shoe of the intruder. 642 00:29:31,166 --> 00:29:34,216 There is also what appears to be a disturbance 643 00:29:34,250 --> 00:29:35,480 on the top of that suitcase 644 00:29:36,016 --> 00:29:38,126 as if someone may have stood on it 645 00:29:38,166 --> 00:29:39,226 at some particular point. 646 00:29:39,266 --> 00:29:41,126 He used the suitcase to get out? 647 00:29:41,166 --> 00:29:42,296 Yes, it would make it much easier 648 00:29:42,333 --> 00:29:45,173 to get out of that basement. 649 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,170 He actually at one point demonstrated 650 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,350 how you could get through that window, 651 00:29:48,383 --> 00:29:50,483 and he fit through with -- with no problem. 652 00:29:51,016 --> 00:29:53,066 I'll show you how easily it can be done. 653 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:14,350 ♪♪ 654 00:30:14,383 --> 00:30:16,303 I believe that the killer 655 00:30:16,333 --> 00:30:19,223 did take JonBenét from her bed 656 00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:21,280 and brought her down to the deepest, 657 00:30:21,316 --> 00:30:25,196 farthest, dirtiest corner of that basement 658 00:30:25,233 --> 00:30:27,483 and did fashion a garotte there 659 00:30:28,016 --> 00:30:29,196 that was used to strangle her, 660 00:30:29,233 --> 00:30:33,073 and then he also brutally hit her 661 00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:35,130 on the head with a blunt object. 662 00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:36,246 According to Lou Smit, 663 00:30:36,283 --> 00:30:39,003 the intruder had left some evidence behind, 664 00:30:39,033 --> 00:30:43,483 a footprint and a palm print near JonBenét's body, 665 00:30:44,016 --> 00:30:48,146 and these were clues that could lead to her killer. 666 00:30:48,183 --> 00:30:50,083 Man 7: In the wine cellar, two footprints 667 00:30:50,116 --> 00:30:51,376 next to JonBenét's body. 668 00:30:51,416 --> 00:30:54,016 One still hasn't been identified. 669 00:30:54,050 --> 00:30:56,270 Nearby, a partial palm print. 670 00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,020 There is evidence that's there could have been an intruder. 671 00:30:59,050 --> 00:31:01,120 You got a weird shoe print in the basement. 672 00:31:01,150 --> 00:31:02,250 You got a broken window. 673 00:31:02,283 --> 00:31:03,423 You've got some debris. 674 00:31:03,450 --> 00:31:05,300 You've got a suitcase next to the window. 675 00:31:05,333 --> 00:31:07,223 Hill: The question then becomes, 676 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:10,450 how could an intruder coax JonBenét Ramsey 677 00:31:10,483 --> 00:31:12,403 down into the basement? 678 00:31:12,433 --> 00:31:15,083 Lou Smit also found tracks and marks 679 00:31:15,116 --> 00:31:17,296 on the little girl's back and neck 680 00:31:17,333 --> 00:31:20,433 that he thought pointed to a stun gun being used in the case, 681 00:31:20,466 --> 00:31:24,016 that perhaps she'd been taken from her bed and kept quiet 682 00:31:24,050 --> 00:31:27,080 because she'd been stunned. 683 00:31:27,116 --> 00:31:29,466 I think that the stun gun is one of the best clues 684 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,080 left behind by the killer as far as a clue, 685 00:31:34,116 --> 00:31:37,466 but it also may explain why JonBenét did not cry out 686 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,270 when she was first abducted. 687 00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:43,270 I am convinced that a stun gun was used. 688 00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:46,320 Lou detailed 10, 11, 12, 689 00:31:46,350 --> 00:31:49,480 13 points that led him to believe 690 00:31:50,016 --> 00:31:53,996 that an intruder had committed this homicide 691 00:31:54,033 --> 00:31:59,053 and not an inside job by any one of the three family members. 692 00:32:01,166 --> 00:32:04,046 So then, at this point, the question becomes, 693 00:32:04,083 --> 00:32:06,283 who was this intruder? 694 00:32:06,316 --> 00:32:09,076 Santa Claus was a darn good suspect. 695 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,120 We know one fact for certain, and that's an intruder 696 00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:18,070 was in our house and killed our daughter. 697 00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:19,380 That we know for a fact. 698 00:32:19,416 --> 00:32:22,026 So things were really looking up for the Ramseys. 699 00:32:22,066 --> 00:32:24,296 The evidence seemed to be pointing to an intruder, 700 00:32:24,333 --> 00:32:27,203 not them. 701 00:32:27,233 --> 00:32:29,353 Moret: Well, are we able to say at this point that John Ramsey, 702 00:32:29,383 --> 00:32:33,423 the father, has been ruled out as the writer of that note? 703 00:32:33,450 --> 00:32:35,330 Yes, he has been ruled out, 704 00:32:35,366 --> 00:32:38,276 and he is the only one ruled out. 705 00:32:38,316 --> 00:32:42,226 King: Was your handwriting cleared, both of you? 706 00:32:42,266 --> 00:32:44,266 John's definitively was cleared, and I scored... 707 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:47,000 And yours was not? ...a 4.5 out of 4. 708 00:32:47,033 --> 00:32:49,403 5 is definitely no match. 709 00:32:49,433 --> 00:32:51,403 And it just, you know... Patsy's handwriting was -- 710 00:32:51,433 --> 00:32:53,023 Because tabloids were printing that it was yours. 711 00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:54,070 Oh, yes, they love that. 712 00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,220 No, that's absurd. 713 00:32:56,250 --> 00:33:00,170 We've looked at leads whose handwriting 714 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,050 scored much, much higher than Patsy's 715 00:33:04,083 --> 00:33:07,083 on a -- on a comparison scale. 716 00:33:07,116 --> 00:33:10,176 So if John and Patsy didn't write the note, 717 00:33:10,216 --> 00:33:11,416 well, then who did? 718 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:14,270 You know, the police really did go through dozens and dozens 719 00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:17,250 and dozens of potential suspects. 720 00:33:17,283 --> 00:33:22,023 And one of the first suspects was the Ramseys' housekeeper. 721 00:33:22,050 --> 00:33:25,170 Patterson: The housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, 722 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,050 and her husband, Mervin, 723 00:33:27,083 --> 00:33:29,003 were suspects from the beginning. 724 00:33:29,033 --> 00:33:31,353 In fact, number one, they were needing money. 725 00:33:31,383 --> 00:33:37,353 She had asked Patsy to borrow $2,000 shortly before Christmas. 726 00:33:37,383 --> 00:33:40,473 Number two, they had a familiarity with the house 727 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,400 and with the people inside the house. 728 00:33:42,433 --> 00:33:44,233 They knew JonBenét. 729 00:33:44,266 --> 00:33:47,426 It would've been possible for them to go to the house, 730 00:33:47,466 --> 00:33:52,126 take JonBenét without having a disturbance. 731 00:33:54,433 --> 00:33:56,323 Hill: When police visited the Pughs, 732 00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:58,470 they discovered the same brand of duct tape 733 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,280 that had been used to cover JonBenét's mouth. 734 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,300 Years later, the Ramseys continued to name her 735 00:34:06,333 --> 00:34:09,403 as a suspect, but she always denied it. 736 00:34:09,433 --> 00:34:12,333 I think about JonBenét every day of my life 737 00:34:12,366 --> 00:34:15,296 and have ever since the day she died. 738 00:34:15,333 --> 00:34:17,303 I've never turned my porch light off. 739 00:34:17,333 --> 00:34:20,473 My porch light has been on every night since JonBenét died. 740 00:34:26,316 --> 00:34:28,166 Hill: Then there was the Santa Claus suspect, 741 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,320 who was a guy well known around town. 742 00:34:30,350 --> 00:34:32,170 His name was Bill McReynolds. 743 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,420 He was Santa Claus to the Boulder community 744 00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:37,370 for their parades and for certain events. 745 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,170 Santa Claus was a darn good suspect. 746 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,150 McReynolds actually played Santa Claus 747 00:34:43,183 --> 00:34:44,253 at the Ramseys' Christmas party 748 00:34:44,283 --> 00:34:47,333 just two days before JonBenét's murder. 749 00:34:47,366 --> 00:34:51,196 And he and JonBenét actually struck up a friendship. 750 00:34:51,233 --> 00:34:53,383 All children are special to Santa. 751 00:34:53,416 --> 00:34:56,366 She just happened to be extra special to me. 752 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,430 She was very thoughtful, a very caring little girl, 753 00:34:59,466 --> 00:35:02,066 and she actually gave Santa a present. 754 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:04,480 You can imagine how rare that is. 755 00:35:05,016 --> 00:35:07,466 Hill: Police learned the so-called Santa Claus suspect 756 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,370 may have told JonBenét that a secret Santa Claus 757 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,280 was gonna make a special visit to her. 758 00:35:14,316 --> 00:35:17,146 Because JonBenét Ramsey the day before made a comment 759 00:35:17,183 --> 00:35:20,123 to her friends, 760 00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:25,130 say Santa Claus gonna visit her that -- tonight. 761 00:35:25,166 --> 00:35:27,476 We later find out that he had had 762 00:35:28,016 --> 00:35:29,396 his own brush with kidnapping. 763 00:35:29,433 --> 00:35:31,273 Hill: It turns out McReynolds' own daughter 764 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:35,000 had also been kidnapped 22 years earlier, 765 00:35:35,033 --> 00:35:37,183 and it also happened on Christmas Day. 766 00:35:39,216 --> 00:35:42,116 Zesbaugh: His wife had written a play about a little girl 767 00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:43,280 who was killed. 768 00:35:43,316 --> 00:35:46,046 There were just very bizarre tentacles to this story 769 00:35:46,083 --> 00:35:49,473 that reached in places that none of us could've suspected. 770 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,020 ♪♪ 771 00:35:55,050 --> 00:36:00,050 ♪♪ 772 00:36:00,083 --> 00:36:01,283 Dr. Pitt: There's this perception, 773 00:36:01,316 --> 00:36:02,466 it's the wrong perception, 774 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,450 that the detectives really didn't look elsewhere. 775 00:36:05,483 --> 00:36:06,483 Velez-Mitchell: But the one interview 776 00:36:07,016 --> 00:36:08,146 that police were really hoping for, 777 00:36:08,183 --> 00:36:12,253 JonBenét's own parents, that was still on hold. 778 00:36:12,283 --> 00:36:13,383 Man 2: What is the status 779 00:36:13,416 --> 00:36:15,426 in regards to a formal sit-down interview? 780 00:36:15,466 --> 00:36:19,376 We are working obviously through their attorneys now. 781 00:36:19,416 --> 00:36:21,146 Velez-Mitchell: So four months after the murder, 782 00:36:21,183 --> 00:36:24,033 the Ramseys finally sit down with police. 783 00:36:27,166 --> 00:36:29,046 Man 8: It's the interview Boulder police 784 00:36:29,083 --> 00:36:30,453 have been trying to get since Christmas. 785 00:36:30,483 --> 00:36:33,383 John and Patsy Ramsey sat down for formal interviews 786 00:36:33,416 --> 00:36:36,096 four months since their daughter, JonBenét, 787 00:36:36,133 --> 00:36:37,183 was murdered. 788 00:36:37,216 --> 00:36:38,416 The interviews happen now, we're told, 789 00:36:38,450 --> 00:36:41,230 because the Ramseys have told their attorneys, "This is it. 790 00:36:41,266 --> 00:36:42,276 We did not kill our daughter. 791 00:36:42,316 --> 00:36:44,416 We are innocent, and we want this closure." 792 00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:48,330 Woman 4: JonBenét, she is the child of Patsy 793 00:36:48,366 --> 00:36:52,176 and John Ramsey from Boulder, Colorado. 794 00:36:52,216 --> 00:36:54,416 Camerota: So one of the things that we found out 795 00:36:54,450 --> 00:36:58,230 was that the Ramseys actually had two different stories 796 00:36:58,266 --> 00:37:00,096 about what happened that night. 797 00:37:06,216 --> 00:37:07,476 Woman 5: There's been tremendous mistrust 798 00:37:08,016 --> 00:37:10,026 between the Ramsey side and the Boulder police department, 799 00:37:10,066 --> 00:37:11,126 but the Ramseys said, "Enough," 800 00:37:11,166 --> 00:37:13,016 and today talked with Boulder police. 801 00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:15,100 When police sat down with the Ramseys, 802 00:37:15,133 --> 00:37:17,183 they had a specific goal in mind. 803 00:37:17,216 --> 00:37:20,476 They wanted to find out the timeline from the Ramseys. 804 00:37:21,016 --> 00:37:24,026 They wanted the timeline of the night their daughter died. 805 00:37:24,066 --> 00:37:26,296 And so there were some very, very specific things 806 00:37:26,333 --> 00:37:29,333 that they needed to get in terms of locking in the story, 807 00:37:29,366 --> 00:37:31,266 locking in the timeline. 808 00:37:34,116 --> 00:37:37,216 And the autopsy held an important clue. 809 00:37:37,250 --> 00:37:40,380 This child had undigested pineapple in her belly, 810 00:37:40,416 --> 00:37:43,116 which means she ate it within two hours of death. 811 00:37:43,150 --> 00:37:46,100 The evidence seemed to suggest that JonBenét Ramsey 812 00:37:46,133 --> 00:37:49,453 ate a piece of pineapple after returning home 813 00:37:49,483 --> 00:37:51,333 from the Whites' Christmas party, 814 00:37:51,366 --> 00:37:55,146 but John Ramsey said that she fell asleep in the car 815 00:37:55,183 --> 00:37:56,423 on the way home from the party 816 00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:59,170 and that he carried her into bed. 817 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,020 Her parents said that she had been asleep, came home, 818 00:38:02,050 --> 00:38:04,450 and they put her right to bed, and she never woke up. 819 00:38:04,483 --> 00:38:07,283 Velez-Mitchell: So if there was no pineapple 820 00:38:07,316 --> 00:38:10,246 served at the Whites' Christmas party that night, 821 00:38:10,283 --> 00:38:12,183 how did it get into her stomach? 822 00:38:12,216 --> 00:38:16,476 In my career, I never have a kidnapper or sex predator 823 00:38:17,016 --> 00:38:20,446 bring some pineapple, feed the victim, say, 824 00:38:20,483 --> 00:38:24,073 "Kid, eat some pineapple before we kidnap you 825 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:26,170 or before I sexual assault you." 826 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,350 Dr. Pitt: I'd like an answer 827 00:38:27,383 --> 00:38:29,283 for the pineapple in the child's gut. 828 00:38:29,316 --> 00:38:31,376 I'd like that to be explained. 829 00:38:31,416 --> 00:38:34,346 I'd like to understand the fact that the Ramseys said 830 00:38:34,383 --> 00:38:37,053 that everyone was asleep, that we have -- and -- 831 00:38:37,083 --> 00:38:40,123 And the child was not fed pineapple, 832 00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:43,220 how we end up with pineapple in the child's gut 833 00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:45,450 and fingerprints on the spoon and -- 834 00:38:45,483 --> 00:38:48,433 and on the bowl that were Patsy Ramsey's. 835 00:38:48,466 --> 00:38:50,176 So with so many unanswered questions, 836 00:38:50,216 --> 00:38:53,016 the district attorney was really feeling the heat 837 00:38:53,050 --> 00:38:56,380 to convene a grand jury. 838 00:38:56,416 --> 00:38:58,226 Kelley: In the summer of '98, 839 00:38:58,266 --> 00:39:03,016 and we're talking nearly two years after the crime, 840 00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:06,220 nothing had come of -- of the investigation. 841 00:39:06,250 --> 00:39:08,350 There was pressure from a lot of quarters, 842 00:39:08,383 --> 00:39:11,383 including the governor, to impanel a grand jury. 843 00:39:14,183 --> 00:39:18,073 Finally, after months and months of delays, 844 00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:20,250 the district attorney, Alex Hunter, 845 00:39:20,283 --> 00:39:23,373 finally does what everybody was waiting for. 846 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,200 Felt like, after two long years of this little girl 847 00:39:26,233 --> 00:39:29,323 not getting justice that finally it was moving forward. 848 00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:31,450 Cabell: And frequently lost behind the sensationalism, 849 00:39:31,483 --> 00:39:34,353 the police investigations and the legal maneuvering 850 00:39:34,383 --> 00:39:38,123 is the fact that the little girl died a brutal death. 851 00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:40,150 Zesbaugh: I think we were all very, very hopeful. 852 00:39:40,183 --> 00:39:42,353 How wrong we were. 853 00:39:42,383 --> 00:39:45,073 All of the original suspects, including the housekeeper 854 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:46,400 and the so-called Santa Claus suspect, 855 00:39:46,433 --> 00:39:49,373 Bill McReynolds, were cleared by police. 856 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,270 Now it was up to 12 grand jurors to decide whether or not 857 00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:55,100 there was enough evidence to indict anyone else. 858 00:39:55,133 --> 00:39:56,173 Would they find answers 859 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,220 the police and the D.A.'s office couldn't? 860 00:39:58,250 --> 00:40:01,220 That's in part 2 of "Who killed JonBenét?" 861 00:40:01,250 --> 00:40:04,050 I'm Hill Harper. Thanks for watching. 862 00:40:04,083 --> 00:40:09,183 ♪♪ 68445

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