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[upbeat music]

Please welcome our
panel of Power Dykes.

Frances Stevens, publisher
and editor-in-chief

of "Deneuve," the hottest
lesbian magazine.

REPORTER: "Deneuve," the
leading lesbian magazine....

-There wasn't a glossy magazine
for lesbians. Anywhere!

-She decided one day
I'm gonna make one.

That's total rock-n-roll.

I love my job!
[kiss, laughter]

I love my job. I love my job.

-There hadn't been a lesbian
lifestyle magazine before.

-"Deneuve" gave the community
the gift of connection in a time

when it wasn't
okay to be a lesbian.

-We were excited
because it was like

all the other magazines,

which in 1990,
that did not happen.

-This magazine was
really gonna change things.

-I know lesbians,
including myself,

who collected
every issue.

-One of the principles of
social change for lesbians

has been visibility.

-Lesbian visibility
is absolutely essential

if we want anyone
coming of age now to think

that there's a
culture worth joining.

-I definitely would
go to the bookstore

and read "Curve" magazine.

-Whoever was in
"Curve", that was it.

That's how you knew
what was going on.

-Like the latest
musicians, the latest artists.

-Yep!

-Franco just explodes
on the scene with pride

and with elegance and honesty.

-Just to bring a magazine to
the newsstands so that lesbians

could see a little bit
of themselves reflected

on the pages required a lot of
courage and tremendous grit,

and no doubt,
significant sacrifice.

[wheels rolling
lightly along sidewalk]

[buzz of scooter motor,
dog's tags clinking]

[car door opens]

-Can I take your tea?
-Oh, thank you.

Up, up.

Whoo!
Your paws are wet.

[engine rumbles]

-Oh, right on the dress.

Okay.

What's going on?

-I got this email from Silke.

She wants to talk.

Doesn't sound good.

-Are you all right?
-Yeah.

-Okay.

Can I have a kiss?

Can I have a better one?

Thank you.
-Of course.

[many conversations
throughout the lobby]

[gentle guitar music]

It's really cool seeing
this dichotomy of really,

like, those people in the lobby.

Was that a mother and her child?

Or was that just an older
woman [laughing] and a teenager?

-I don't know.

I don't know, but I like that
you used the word "dichotomy."

-Ahh!!! [laughs]

[video call rings]

-Can you hear me?

-I can hear you,
but I can't see you.

-Oh.
-Oh!

Now I can see you.

Now you're jumping
all over the place.

So, what's been
going on over there?

Your email was
a little alarming.

-Well, the one that said,
"I don't know if we'll

be in business in a year."
I guess that one.

-What do you need me to do?

What can I do to be helpful?

-Mmhmm.

-You know, something has to...

has to shift in order

for "Curve" to keep going
in whatever format that is.

-Yes.

-I think she's lost.

-Mm.

Yeah. And who am I

to point fingers for
things that I believe are

not the right decision that
she's made along the way?

-Are you kidding me?!

Who are you?!

-I lost the right to criticize.

Are you biting your lip?
-A little bit.

[quiet laugh]
Yeah, I don't, I don't....

You know, it's like, in the last
24 hours, I heard this thing

that I never wanted to hear
that the magazine

could be coming to an end.

Should it come to an end?

Or should it change
into something else?

-Right.
-So, what does it become?

I don't know. I really don't.

-So, then I guess the big
question is, do you wanna be

part of figuring out what it is?

[pensive music]

GERALDO: Hi, everybody,
and welcome to a show

that's all about power dykes.
[applause]

They are here,
and they are queer.

Frances Stevens, at 26 years
old, how long have you been

a self-described lesbian?

-A self-described lesbian.

I was actually married for
three and a half years.

-Ah, I didn't know.

And may the great
spirit watch over you, amen.

[applause]

FRANCO: It was a really
expensive, elaborate,

beautiful, amazing day.

I was living the fairy tale.

Here was this great guy.

Everything was
great with my family.

And I had no idea
that I was gay.

[pensive music fades
into "Jesse's Girl"]

I didn't know any out gay
people when I was growing up.

There was one character on a
TV show that was a gay guy.

I went to school at San
Francisco State University.

There was one
prerequisite called

Variations in Human Sexuality.

It's like as if somebody
hit me over the head

with a baseball bat.

Like they explained
what being a lesbian was.

I just knew, all of a
sudden, that that was me.

It was like somebody
just said, "Wake up!"

♪ Why can't I find
a woman like that? ♪

Wait a second.

The fairy tale has
just been blown up.

What do I do?

[somber music]

I think we should do
away with gays if possible.

You can't hold hands in public.

You can't be
affectionate in public.

It's a hard road.

We have got nothing
behind us legally.

-I was shell-shocked
to work the phone lines

at the National
Center for Lesbian Rights

and to take call after call

from lesbians,
and also gay men, who

had been kicked out
of their families,

lost custody of their kids,

been fired from their jobs,

been stripped of
a sense of hope and future.

I could not believe how devoid
of just the most basic sense

of belonging and dignity existed
for LGBT people in this country.

You had Don't Ask Don't Tell.

REPORTER: Gays
could reveal their status

only at their own risk.

Being homosexual is
still grounds for dismissal.

-We need to protect our
social and moral foundations.

KATE: You had Bill Clinton

signing The Defense
of Marriage Act.

REPORTER: States are
not obliged to recognize

the legal gay marriage
of another state.

KATE: You did not have openly
gay, queer elected officials.

You did not have celebrities
who were out and proud.

We did not see
ourselves represented

in any positive mainstream way.

-I love you!
-Come on.

-Cindy, what's wrong with you?
-What do you mean?

-All this touching and
hugging girls and, "I love you."

Boy, are you strange.
-Well, I didn't mean anything.

-I'll just bet.

You better think
about what you mean. [tsk]

JEN: Frank,
what if this magazine

goes out of business
in the next year?

FRANCO: It's very
likely that it could.

-And?
-And will people care?

I don't know what other
people think, you know?

The magazine was a way, it was a
vehicle for lesbians to disperse

information to other lesbians.
Now, anyone can do a blog.

Anyone can have their
own YouTube channel.

It's much more immediate.

It gives way more
access to the people.

I think the year I started
the magazine there were

over 700 magazines
founded that year.

I remember hearing a
statistic that there were like

6 or 7 of those left.

30 years! That's a
long time, you know?

-I guess we'll see what
people think tomorrow.

[high energy music]

[happy crowds cheering]

-Is anybody gonna
come to our panel?

-[laughs]
-Maybe no one will come.

-Hey!
-Hey!!

-Hey, Andrea.
Nice to meet you.

-Yeah, nice to meet you too.

We thought we would start
just with a quick introduction.

Franco Stevens, who's the woman
who started "Curve" Magazine,

which is the longest-running,
best-selling

lesbian magazine in the world.

[room fills with applause,
cheers]

When I started the magazine,
it was a big controversy:

Do I put the word
"lesbian" on the cover?

And women were like,
"You can't do that.

No bookstores will carry it.

I can't be seen
buying this thing."

I mean, I can't even verbalize
today how much I was ridiculed

and bashed, even from within
our own community, by putting

the word "lesbian" on the cover.

And I just wanna know by a show
of hands, how many of you are

still embracing of that or okay
if people identify as lesbian?

Can you raise your hand?

That's way more than I thought.

How many of you
think it's outdated

and doesn't represent
our community?

A couple people.
Thank you for being honest.

It's made a difference.
It's made an impact.

Why do we wanna erase
it from our history?

-I, personally, would never use
it to describe myself because

I feel like it's been
co-opted by straight men

as this overly sexualized term.

FRANCO: We've heard from
multiple women of a certain age

[laughter] who are feeling like
they're becoming invisible,

like they're being cast aside.

-I use either lesbian
or queer interchangeably.

But a lot of folks in Gen Z are
actually more likely to identify

as queer or pan or bi.

And there's nothing wrong with
that, but again, it's this idea,

is the word exclusionary?

SEVERAL: Yes. Yeah.

-Some lesbians spaces can be
super inclusive, but there is

also a history of lesbians
not being so inclusive.

-Yeah.
-I identify as a trans woman.

And I'm not super comfortable
with the word "lesbian,"

but I do feel safe using
"queer" because I feel like

it is a broader term.

It is sort of a, I know that
queer spaces are safe spaces.

FRANCO: I can
totally understand that.

You know, a lot of old-school
lesbians are trans exclusionary

radical feminists.
We call them TERFS.

-I think "lesbian" is an
important word 'cause

it describes
exactly who you are.

But inside the group,
there's a really hot and heavy

discussion about it.

-The only word that
anybody seems to globally have

an issue with is the one
word that women can own

for themselves
that is about women.

-Exactly.

-I totally understand that
the word "lesbian" can feel

exclusionary to a woman
who loves women

who doesn't identify
as a lesbian.

But that's the one word
that we have that is only ours

and nobody else's.

ANDREA: So, I actually just came
out to my abuela in December.

And I was like,
"Abuela, soy lesbiana."

And she's just like...
"¿!¡En serio!?"

[laughter]

And that was it.
She's just like, "Really!"

I was like, "Oh, you know."

Like, "I knew that there was no
guy ever good enough for you,

but now it all makes sense."
I was like....

[laughter, applause]

I was so shocked.

And the worst
comment she said was like,

"But vaginas are so much work."
And I was just like....

[boisterous laughter]

Like, I somehow ended up
here in this conversation.

By being visibly queer and being
visibly Latinx, I can hopefully

make it easier for
younger folks in my family

and other folks in my community.

Regardless of whatever word you
choose or what label you want to

attribute to yourself,
literally being visible

is the most important
thing you can be.

[applause]

ANDREA: You know what's funny?

I didn't pick up a "Curve"
magazine till I was in college.

And I literally picked it up
when I was in a journalism class

my freshman year.
I was like, what is this?

And I just got so excited
because, as it is, I was just so

excited to see a magazine about
women that wasn't sexualized.

You know, going and hearing all
these women say, "I'm too scared

to use the word 'lesbian'," or
"I don't use the word 'lesbian'

because...I don't feel safe
doing it," makes me think that,

God, there's so much
more work to be done.

-The reason why "lesbian"
gets so much heat, I think

is many things. I think
it's because it is seen

as being political,
women owning their identity.

Like that one person said,
it's the one label that's ours.

-Mm.

-But I do think also it's
because of that loud minority

that has that reputation
of being exclusionary.

FRANCO: I made the magazine
to say however you choose to

present yourself, you're
still a part of this community.

But a magazine has
a limited distribution.

Like there's other ways
for lesbians to connect

besides a print magazine.

We can never be
too visible, right?

And that's because they've
wanted us to be invisible

for so long that any type
of visibility is radical.

It's political.

[somber music]

[tv static]

Hilton head, South Carolina.
Step this way, please.

-You know what...?

-We drove to beach week.
We rented a house.

Blaine came storming
into the living room.

He was screaming...

"My wife is a dyke."

Like it stung his
tongue to even say it.

[gulls calling,
somber music continues]

FRANCO: When my husband
outed me to my family,

I felt like it was
my story to tell.

That was my decision to tell
my family when I was ready.

Ugh.

He had just kind of
blown up my world,

which meant that
I never had to do it.

But it was kind of something
that was taken away from me.

ROBIN: I don't think
Frank lied intentionally.

I think she needed to
come to terms with it herself.

But not telling my parents
when she did figure it out,

that was hard.

If you felt this way, you
should not have gotten married.

[echoing voices
from the recording]

[family singing
"Dayenu," Passover song]

-I think it was like
a shocking thing,

like this is something
that they did wrong.

You know, nobody
wanted to have the gay kid.

FRANCO: I grabbed my
car keys, and I walked out.

And that was it.
That was the end.

I just took what was
on my back and left.

So, I didn't have
anywhere to go.

And I lived in my car.

And it was humiliating
for me, and I didn't want

anyone to know.
It was bad.

After about a month,
I called the house.

And my mom picked up,
and I said,

"I know that this isn't
what you want for me.

Can you please lend me $500
so I can get a place to live?"

NANNY: I said,
"You made your bed. I'm sorry.

I've spent all the
money on you I can do.

Do what you have to do
to make your own way,

but I cannot support you."

I felt like I was
completely alone.

[pensive music]

The victim of what many
people say was a hate crime

in Wyoming this
morning has died.

REPORTER: Shepard, a gay man,
was allegedly beaten,

left to die.

-It was very hard to be out
and open in the late '80s.

There was a
history of gay bashing.

-It was nothing to
walk down the street

and have somebody
smack you or hit you.

Once, I had a guy
spit in my face.

-We are ostracized by society.

They call you "dyke."
They spit on you.

They think that you're,
they think that you're fat,

and they think
that you're ugly.

And that's because
that's the image

that's been projected about us.

KATE: These two women
hiking The Appalachian Trail,

a man identified them
as a lesbian couple.

He ended up murdering
one of the women

while they slept in their tent.

It's a stone's throw,
in terms of history,

away from where
we sit right now.

[birdsong,
dogs in the distance]

FRANCO: I still really want
"Curve" in whatever form

to continue, you know,
if it's still needed.

I think what I need to do is
find some young activists,

find young people, people
who are like what I was like

at 25 and 30.

Who are they?
What are their goals?

What are they
bringing to the community?

What do they need?
What does the community need?

And then maybe, if we talk to
some of them, we can get an idea

of what the mission
of the magazine,

or the mission of this
project, should be.

This is a poem called
"Dear Straight People"

by Denice Frohman.

Apparently, it won
the World Poetry Slam.

Dear Straight People,
[audience chuckles]

Who do you think you are?

Do you have to make it
so obvious that

I make you uncomfortable?
Why do I make you uncomfortable?

Do you know that
makes me uncomfortable?

Now we both uncomfortable.
[laughter]

Dear Straight People,
Sexuality and gender?

Two different things
[cheers, finger snaps]

combined in many different ways.

If you mismatch your socks,
you understand.

Dear Straight People, Kissing
my girlfriend in public without

looking to see who's around is a
luxury I do not fully have yet.

But tonight, I am drunk in my
freedom, grab her hand on

the busiest street corner in
Philadelphia, zip my fingers

into hers and press our lips
firmly, until we melt

their stares into a
standing ovation, imagine

that we are in a sea of smiling
faces, even when we're not

and when we're not, we start
shoveling, digging deep into

each other's eyes we say,
"Hey Baby, can't nothing

stop this tonight" 'cause
tonight, this world is broken

and we're the only thing
that's gonna keep it together.

[cheers, applause]
JEN: Damn.

FRANCO: Yeah,
pretty powerful huh?

-Just the significance of the
magazine for so many years

has meant a lot to
a lot of queer folks,

a lot of LGBT folks.

It meant a lot to me.

It was the first magazine that
I saw as a young kid walking

around New York City, and
I was like, "What's that?"

And seeing women on the cover.

And I'm like, became
a lot more curious about

sorta just the community.

It was a way for us to
connect to each other.

And so, it's important for
young people to know that

this magazine's a part
of their lineage, too.

FRANCO: You know, the first time
that I saw you, I just remember

feeling that
total feel of power.

Like, "Wow! This person
is speaking to me."

And then I imagined what
would it be like if I was 20,

and I was
hearing you go get it.

I was just so blown away
that I was like, "This is where

I hope our community's going."

-Young people were sort of
messaging me from all over

the world saying, "I found this
poem, and I came out to my mom."

Or you know,
"I came out to myself."

One of the reasons I'm
drawn to work with young people

is because I believe
in their wisdom.

Poetry is a way to fall in love
with the power of your voice.

-Why do my parents
despise so much?

Why couldn't I be the
"daughter" they wanted.

Why can't you
be like your cousin?

Why can't you be like
most "normal" girls?

I'm sorry I like girls.

They saw it as a sickness
that was able to be cured.

The guilt is unbearable.

[sniffs back tears]

[snapping in support]

DENICE: There are students on
this campus who may not even

know that they're queer or
questioning yet, but maybe 5,

10 years from now
will look back and see how

courageous and visible
you're living your truth

and will be inspired
to do the same.

What I'm saying is that your
impact extends beyond this room.

-What does queer love
look like to you?

DENICE: Unapologetic.
Radical. Liberated.

[snapping]

It looks like a harbor.
It looks like a heaven.

I love the word "queer" because
I feel like it encompasses

both my sexuality and my
gender presentation, right?

My queerness is what my
womanhood looks like on me

as much as it is who I'm with.

And it's really the ultimate
risk but also the ultimate and

greatest joy and the most
radical love I've ever known.

That's what queer love is to me.

[snapping fills the room]

FRANCO: When I left
my marriage, it was scary.

But at least I was free.

Where I really wanted to work
was A Different Light Bookstore.

This was the gay bookstore in
the gayest street in America.

I went in, and I had
a conversation with

the one female employee there
named Rachel Pepper.

RACHEL: I just liked
Franco right away.

I felt I need to help
this person get hired.

I wanna be this person's friend.

FRANCO: Everyone that worked
there was an artist or a writer

and the most creative
people that I'd ever met.

One of my friends
from school, he asked me,

"So, where you living?"

And when I admitted that I
didn't have a place to live,

they said, "Come live with us.
We won't charge you any rent."

And they gave me
this tiny little bedroom.

But I was so happy to have this
place that I could be myself in.

One night, I went out
to a club, and I met

my first official
girlfriend, Vicki.

VICKI: When I met Franco,
I thought she looked a lot

like Demi Moore.

She had makeup
and nails and the hair.

And I was just
like, wow, you know? Yeah.

So, we started going to
Rolo and all these little stores

and shopping together.

And then gradually, I noticed
she was like kinda changing.

I just noticed her
discovering who she was.

She said to me, "If you
wanna stay with me,

you have to wear the dress."

FRANCO: I was like, "Can you
please put on a dress for me?"

And she's like "No!"

I was like, oh no,
I think I like femme girls.

And then I got kind of upset
that they weren't treated

like real lesbians
in the lesbian community.

You had to look the part.

You needed Doc Martins on
your feet, and you needed

short haircut and no makeup.

You had to be able to
identify each other by that.

I think that's just wrong.

-So, what is an average lesbian?
-There is no average lesbian.

We've always been
in every segment.

We're doctors, lawyers,
engineers,

sanitation engineers too.

If you look around, how many
of you could decipher

who was lesbian and who was not?

If you looked at this panel
walking out on the street,

what would you think?
Average lesbian?

-Of course. Of course.
[laughter]

FRANCO: Average lesbian?
Average lesbian?

Our whole life does not
revolve around sex

and who we sleep with.
[applause]

RACHEL: We wanted to see
representation of our diversity

in the pages of a magazine.

We wanted fashion.
We wanted lifestyle.

We wanted to talk about books
and music that were not

on the mainstream
lesbian grid at the moment.

-There were gay magazines.

There just weren't
the right ones.

FRANCO: Okay, come on.
Let's take some selfies.

ANDREA: Okay, we're
taking some selfies.

-Am I a bar stool?

Put your arm around me
or something.

-Well, I mean,
it's a little tall.

-Here, no, here.
-Okay, there.

Yeah, I guess I'll lean then.
Bar stool. You get it?

-[laughs] I turn into
everyone's coat rack.

What am I, a coat rack?

-I don't think
you're a coat rack!

-So, right down here
is the bookstore

that I used to work at.

It used to be called
A Different Light.

When I used to work here,
mostly at the time it was

gay men's porn.

"The Advocate" didn't say
"lesbian" on the front cover.

It only said, "gay."
"Out" showed up shortly after.

"On Our Backs" was there:
full nudity,

in-your-face lesbian erotica.

KATIE: There was nothing for
the general lesbian population.

FRANCO: One day, it hit me:
if you want something

you need to take action
and do something.

I was the one that was
supposed to start this magazine.

-So, she got the idea.

And then she's just
like, ooh, my God.

I need money.

FRANCO: So, I dressed up in my
little suit, and I went to the

bank with my business plan and
my little pleather briefcase.

I don't think they wanted
anything to do with me.

We were shot down so hard.

"What are you thinking?
You know you're gonna fail."

First of all,
the economy's tanking.

Second of all, the magazine
industry's in the toilet.

Magazines are flailing left
and right, and you wanna put

the word "lesbian"
on the front cover.

Good luck to ya.

JEN: I wasn't out in the '90s.

Why was it a big deal to put
the word "lesbian" on the cover?

-It was essentially coming out
every time you wanted

to look at the magazine.
It was a big deal back then.

You're reading this,
you're guilty by association.

Well, that was
everybody's perception

that nobody would buy it.

So, I just applied for a bunch
of credit cards on the same day.

I just cashed them all in.

ANNOUNCER: Here they come....

FRANCO: I had been homeless, I'd
lived in my car, I'd been broke.

So what if I didn't have
any credit after this?

So what if I
declared bankruptcy?

Everyone said along the way
that I couldn't do it.

Well, the more you told me no,
the more I wanted it to happen.

I picked the first race,
clear favorite.

I went down to the paddock,
and I noticed when the jockey is

getting on the horse, he keeps
looking back, looking back.

There's something
wrong with this horse.

So, it was like oh, that
horse is out. All right.

I'm gonna bet an exacta
with two longshots,

and my horses came in
first and second.

[hooves thundering
on the track]

I took all the money, and I
did the same thing: just taking

that money and parlaying
it into the next race.

I knew I had to risk everything.

And I just remember
thinking okay,

if this is supposed
to happen, it will.

And I'll tell ya, it was like I
was standing at the finish line

in every race, as if somebody
had just told me

these are gonna be
the winners of these races.

At the end of the day,
I had enough money

to start the magazine
and print three editions worth.

So, I was at Different Light
at the time, and I hand wrote

a sign that just said
"Looking for lesbian writers

and photographers for
new lesbian magazine."

And I put the sign up, and I
got 300 calls the first month.

So, at that point, I knew that
there was a need and a want.

RACHEL: There was a lot
of interest in getting this

new lesbian publication
off the ground.

KATIE: I called, and I said,
"I'm interested in the magazine

that you were talking about."

And she goes, "Well, do
you want to be an editor."

And I thought well, that
was an easy interview!

DEB: Franco got this huge
tray with just so much sushi.

And she said, "If you can
eat more sushi than me,

you'll get the job."
That was.... [laughs]

And I remember thinking
oh, I can do that.

FRANCO: Do you know what
the difference is between

parsley and pussy?
DEB: What, Franco?

FRANCO: I don't know.

I don't eat parsley.
[clicks tongue]

Back to you, Deb.

KATIE: I think she was 23.

So, to see somebody that was
grasping these opportunities

and just going for it
was really inspiring.

FRANCO: Oh, the
name of the magazine.

[clears throat] I've been
told never to talk about that.

The name Deneuve
was Franco's first cat.

Franco had a girlfriend
whose cat was named Deneuve.

Long-haired American
fluffy cat, tabby. Deneuve.

What!? [laughs]

She once told me that it sounded
like it meant, "the new thing."

I think we all felt it had a
little bit of a je ne sais quoi.

I knew immediately that it was

homage to Catherine Deneuve.

"The Hunger" was one
of my favorite movies.

Franco named the magazine
after her camp counselor.

KATIE: She told me, "There was a
girl that I met at summer camp

that I fell madly in love with."

Franco's first girlfriend,
her name was Deneuve.

How sweet is that?

For the record, my first
girlfriend was not a cat.

[machines whirring]

[chill pop music]

From the get-go, I knew exactly

what I wanted the
magazine to be like.

I wanted it to be
color and glossy.

I wanted it to be a resource
for women in the community,

and I wanted it to be
a place where we could

feel proud to
represent all of us.

This is our life.
This is our style.

Yes, this is our news
and our politics,

but this is where we are,

and this is how we're
gonna push ourselves forward.

DEB: What I was really
interested in was making sure

everybody looked gorgeous.

'Cause I think at that time,
a lot of people didn't really

feel good about themselves.

Put down by society.
Really rough time with families.

It was really a place
where we looked positive,

we looked great, we looked sexy.

♪ Still, there's many who
turned out their porch lights

♪ Just so I would think
they were not home

♪ And hid in the
dark of the windows

♪ Till I passed.... ♪

It says on the very first issue,
"lesbian," a lesbian magazine.

You know, just being
in this magazine

was like taking a big chance.

I mean, there's nothing more
out loud and proud than

being in a magazine with
the L word on the cover.

I can tell you there
was two paid ads;

one from A Different Light
Bookstore, which was tiny,

and then one from my
dad's computer business,

which was his latest
entrepreneurial venture.

[pensive music]

My relationship with my mom
at the point of just starting

the magazine was on the mend.

ROBIN: My mother knew
she didn't react well.

FRANCO: One time for
Thanksgiving, she called up

and said, "I'd really like you
to come home for Thanksgiving."

And without missing a beat,
I just said,

"Okay, we will be there.

I will be coming with my
girlfriend," which was Vicki.

I didn't give her a chance
to say anything else.

ROBIN: The first time I heard
my mother use the word,

"my daughter's a lesbian,"
was in relation to the magazine.

Somebody was asking
what everybody was up to.

And my mother said, "Oh, and
Frank started this magazine."

"Really?
What kind of magazine?"

"Well, it's a lesbian magazine."
And that was just it.

NANNY: Frances said,
"Mom, I know what I want,

and I'm gonna do it."

And I said, "Hurray.
Let's start over."

[birds singing]

FRANCO: I don't know if you
remember Kim Katrin Milan.

Her TED Talk went viral.

Yeah, she has an amazing family.

So, take a look at this.

TIQ: I am a transgender man,
which means

the "F" on my birth certificate
should've stood for

false instead of female.
[laughter]

KIM: I am a
cisgender queer woman.

Cisgender means the gender
I was assigned at birth is still

and has always been female.

I've identified in a few
different ways - as a bisexual,

as a lesbian - but for me,
queerness encompasses

all of the layers of who
I am and how I've loved.

I'm layers and not fractions.

FRANCO: What are they saying
that's bringing so many viewers?

What is the message of today?
What are people hungry for?

When I created the magazine, it
was for women who love women.

So, what does that mean today?

JEN: Who identifies as
a woman might have shifted.

FRANCO: Yeah. Mmhmm.

-But it's the same thing.

-And who identifies
as a man now.

-Right.

-So, I think it's
looking at the community

a really different way.

[chill music]

KIM: I'd been speaking since
2009, trying to involve people

in having a broader
dialogue about what it means

to support LGBT people.

-You know, having
a speaker like you come in

could just change everything.
-Yeah.

-They picture queer people
as one specific way.

What I wanted to do with
the magazine too is kinda

break that mold and say
that people don't have to

be a certain way to be
accepted within the community.

KIM: I think that that
conversation is still something

that's so important
to keep having.

I think everything
ends up having to evolve.

-People will make fun of
the extension of LGBTQI2s,

but the way that exists is
actually a really accurate

reflection of the work
we're trying to do.

-Totally, totally.
And what we're seeing now

with this desire for people

to name themselves,
is really that,

is a reclaiming of this power
that we've never had access to.

-It's self-empowering
to take those words back.

-And I think in the naming
is you find your tribe.

You find your community.

[mellow music]

FRANCO: I knew the owner of the
largest lesbian romance novel

publishing company, Naiad Press.

Barbara Grier, the publisher,
said to me, "Oh my God.

You're the cutest little
baby dyke I've ever seen!"

-[laughs]
-"Print this flyer.

It will cost you $600,
and I will send it out

to all my people
on my entire mailing list.

And I'll even put a quote
from me in there saying that

this is the greatest thing
to happen to lesbian culture.

I support it.
You need to buy a subscription."

So, I was like, $600?
We didn't have 600 cents.

VICKI: We were putting
our heads together

'cause this was
so important to us.

So, there used to be
motorcycle parking down there

at the corner of
18th and Castro Street,

and there'd be tons of people

that'd come and would park
their motorcycles there.

We can go down there and
start detailing motorcycles.

VICKI: [laughing] I do not
want to wash motorcycles.

And she was like "C'mon!"

I would be like,
"Hey, nice bike.

But really, your bike
is pretty dirty.

Look at mine!
It's immaculate.

You go into that bar,
give me 20 bucks.

By the time you get out, your
bike will look as good as mine."

We had like little toothbrushes.

By the end of the day,
we were so exhausted.

FRANCO: I was surprised
she didn't break up with me

just right then and there.

After a weekend, we were
high on those fumes from

the de-greaser, but
we had gotten the money.

So, Naiad Press
sent out the mailer.

And after about two weeks,
I opened up the mailbox,

and there were like
two subscriptions.

I was like two
subscriptions, YES!

The next day there was
like 12 subscriptions.

I was like wow, this is awesome.

And I come in the next day.

I open that little box,
and I look in. Empty.

And I'm like, I guess that's it
'cause this is the third issue.

So, as I'm walking out the door
with my head kind of slung like

let's see, how old will I be
after my bankruptcy's cleared

from my record, the guy
behind the desk said, "Oh, wait.

Frank, Franco, wait a second!"
And I said, "Yeah?"

He goes, "Oh,
your mail would not

fit in the P.O. box.
There was too much of it."

So, he plunked down this
sack of subscriptions.

It was like Santa's gift bag.
I couldn't believe it.

For the next few weeks,
it continued at that rate.

Like either there was a tub,
one of those mail tubs,

or a sack of thousands
of subscriptions.

It was like...
God was a lesbian. [laughs]

[upbeat music]

VICKI: So many women were
interested in the magazine.

And I mean, it was
just flooding in.

We were in the apartment,
typing in the addresses,

stuffing these magazines
into manila envelopes.

And I'm like,
I'm thinking to myself,

what day and age
are we living in?

Why does this have to be in a
manila envelope and mailed out?

And it's like well,
it's going to the Midwest

to people that
probably aren't out.

So, this is where I lived when
I first started the magazine.

But when women called here, they
thought they were reaching some

big-ass publication, where
it was a couple of dykes

sitting up in that room all
smooshed together and like -

ANDREA: You were
all the departments.

FRANCO: I was
all the departments.

We did so many photo
shoots in the back.

Sometimes they'd call
and be like, "Oh, yeah,

I have a question
about my subscription."

They were really
looking for community.

Calling us up and hearing
another voice of somebody

who is actually an out lesbian
was so moving for them.

Sometimes they'd end up
keeping somebody on the phone

here at the office
for an hour or two.

It wasn't uncommon.

Brings back a lot of memories.

[mellow music]

RACHEL: How are you going to
publicize this magazine

at a time when women
really didn't have access

to a lot of media to get
their voices heard?

And there was no
Internet to publicize it.

Franco was great
about hitting the road

at every opportunity possible.

She would go to every Pride
event all around the country

to set up a booth
and sell subscriptions.

It's the night before the tour,
and I'm just getting ready.

And our first stop
is Winnemucca, Nevada,

until we can make it
to Salt Lake City the next day.

We're doing Chicago on Friday,

the Michigan Womyn's
Music Festival on Sunday.

Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland,
Columbus, Indianapolis,

St. Louis, Kansas City,
Denver, and then back home.

I just don't know where
we're gonna fit 47 boxes

that we're gonna get
in Chicago in the car.

Magazines, magazines.

We're going to Michigan.

We're gonna see us
some naked ladies. Buh-bye!

FRANCO: And that was our whole
idea of going on these tours,

is like drive 600 miles.

DEB: Have you had okra?

I didn't know what
okra was until tonight.

FRANCO: Show up at the bookstore
for cocktails and snacks.

They have "Deneuve" magazine
beautifully displayed.

FRANCO: Followed by five
minutes for dinner and going

to a dance club until 3:00
or 4:00 in the morning.

We're on our way to Atlanta.

Every place we go, they ask
who the three triplets are,

since we're obviously the only
lesbians they've ever seen.

Or so they think.

And we all have
exactly the same haircut.

And we'd just cover as
much ground as we could.

RACHEL: When we rolled up,
people would just be ecstatic

to see us, and
particularly to see Franco.

Actually, one beautiful woman
standing right in front of me.

[laughs]

Can I turn this off
now, Franco, please?

-I love my job.
[kiss, laughter]

I love my job.
I love my job.

More babes in
the community tent.

-The big boss is just
working so hard! [chuckles]

Oh yeah, just peeling
the babes off her carcass.

The women of the South
really have loved the magazine.

-And we just wanna
say, "Hey, 'Deneuve'."

-Wanna say hi to all
you "Deneuve" fans.

[cheering]

Woo woo!

[bright music]

-I started reading the magazine
when I first started coming out.

It kinda helped me remember
that I wasn't all alone.

DEB: A woman came up
to us, and she was crying.

And I said, "Are you upset?"
She goes, "No, I'm really happy.

I live out here.

There are no other gay
people that I know of,

and I get this magazine.

It comes every month, and
it's like my only connection

to the gay community."

And I realized at that moment
that this has a little more

importance than
I actually realize.

-We probably get an
average of 100 letters a week.

KATIE: Let me just share
with you this one letter.

The header on it is, "Saved
from the Patriarchal South.

May the Goddesses bless you!

Your magazine 'Deneuve,' has
saved me from the patriarchy.

I now feel connected
to the Lesbian World.

Back here in Kentucky
where the KKK still march,

positive publications
such as yours

can only bring us more support."

[upbeat music]

-Welcome to the 6th annual

Lesbians Who Tech
and Allies Summit!

[boisterous cheers, applause]

I started Lesbians Who Tech

because I felt like
my voice was missing.

I just had never seen
professional queer women

in one place like that, that
immense kind of realness.

We live in a systemic, racist,
sexist, anti-LGBTQ world.

That's just the way it is.
And we have to fight it.

We have to fight it every day.

-So, you have all of
these conversations

that are happening,
but they don't necessarily

always include us, right?

They don't include
the LGBTQ community.

They don't include
the Black community.

They don't include quote-unquote
"marginalized" communities.

And so, by creating a space
and place for people,

you're creating community.

LEANNE: I became an adult around
the age of queer versus lesbian.

Anyone over a certain age
is team lesbian,

and anyone under
a certain age is team queer.

And I was like, why?

And obviously, older women,
the word "queer" was derogatory.

I just think a lot
of young people kind of

felt like "lesbian"
is this like,

softball coach in the
Midwest, you know?

I thought long and hard
about the name

when I was starting this.

I mean "lesbian" is not
the greatest-sounding word.

"Gay" is much better.

It's one syllable. It's shorter.

But it's our word,
and I was like, fuck it.

We need to claim this, and we
need to make it not this

stuffy, Birkenstock,
old white lady thing.

I don't think Lesbians Who Tech
would be able to exist

without things like "Curve."

I mean, we're built upon the
foundation of that early work.

I mean, this conference
is lesbian visibility.

KATE: What's happening here
right now is Franco's legacy!

[many conversations]

[motorcycles rev,
dance music starts]

[music with a heavy beat]

-The early '90s in San
Francisco was the heyday.

San Francisco was
so on fire and so alive.

We owned Valencia Street
in the Mission.

You'd just walk from
Artemis Cafe to Amelia's Bar

to Osento Bathhouse because
we'd never been able to do that.

So, we went
to this extreme of like,

we're gonna make
our own culture.

-I grew up in Ohio.

If I were to have been out,

I would've immediately
been gay bashed.

I escaped [laughs] on
the Greyhound out here,

and I found my tribe.

-Growing up in a small town,
I had to silence myself a lot.

So, when I arrived
in San Francisco,

I was not silent at all.

I took up as much space
as I possibly could.

To be in a place
where you're just literally

running down the street
with your shirt off,

which I did
in many circumstances.

[cheering]

FRANCO: It was really
an exciting, amazing,

sexually-freeing time.

RACHEL: Queer sexuality was
really coming into its own, and

the founding of this magazine
was really part of that.

[gentle music]

FRANCO: My plan for the magazine
was to show the inclusiveness

of the lesbian community.

We put African-American women
on the cover,

we put older women on the cover,
we put all shapes and sizes.

ANITA: Upcoming lesbians
could identify with

someone in those pages.

JEWELLE: For the magazine
to have photographs

of all different
kinds of lesbians,

that was a huge deal.

It wasn't a glamour magazine.
It was a community magazine.

And everybody in the community
saw themselves in "Curve."

PAGE: The media pours
this avalanche of identity,

and well, it's missing 75%
of the people in the world.

Frank's magazine brought
all the women forward and said,

look how beautiful we are.

-This magazine was about
arts and theater and sports

and culture and politics.

Talking about marriage equality.

No one was talking
about that in the '90s.

Today, there are 700
LGBTQ elected officials

in the United States.

Back then?
Maybe 20-25 and growing.

But she would highlight them
every single month in there,

to ensure that people were
talking about how important

it is to have LGBTQ
representation.

-Knowing about other people's
experiences, their stories,

helping you to overcome
your own insecurities

about your sexuality,
coming out.

There was a lotta
coming out stories.

And then stories about marriage
and about the legal struggles

of gay women trying to adopt.

RACHEL: When I was trying to
get pregnant, I wrote a piece

on that journey
for the magazine.

That was a really
groundbreaking topic to cover.

-It showcased feminine
lesbians for the first time.

I mean, that was huge for me.

It's like if you wanna be really
butch, that is completely cool.

But if you don't, if you wanna
be femme, if you wanna

wear lipstick, if you wanna
wear dresses, if you wanna

cut your hair short or not,
that's your business.

And it's all okay.

LEA: When the magazine put me
on the cover, it allowed women

in our own community to see a
well-spoken, funny, intelligent,

charming, gentlemanly butch,
which is basically who I am

unless you cross
my fuckin' path.

JUDEA: They had a article,
"Lipstick and Dipstick,"

which I thought was so brilliant
that they would have

the feminine and the masculine
side of lesbianism together.

ANITA: The first time I saw the
magazine, I remember there was

this brown woman on the
cover, Linda Villarosa.

Just the power of seeing me.
[sniffs back tears]

KATE: There's so much
about the word "lesbian"

that is freighted with
shame and stigma.

That word has been sullied,
it has been cheapened,

it's been mocked.

The dominant culture has tried
to strip it of honor and dignity

and pride and nuance and beauty
and sacredness and all of that.

The magazine said, here
we are, and it's "lesbian!"

And all of the sudden,
you felt like maybe you were

rebuilt a little bit inside.

-After I saw the first issue,
I knew right then that being

the editor of a magazine like
"Deneuve" was gonna be

what I wanted
to do with my life.

I'd been married 16 years
as a lesbian.

And she'd always been butch.

And by the time she
came to me and said,

"I think I'm trans," I was like,
"Yeah, you know. I know."

We went to Franco
first and just said,

"Jake is coming out as trans.

Do you want us
to keep this secret?

Or will I lose my job,
or what's gonna happen?"

Franco said,
"No, absolutely not.

You are the best person
to be running this magazine.

We love Jake and accept him,
and he's part of the family."

And it meant everything.

The magazine was
never just a job.

It was a lifestyle.

To know that I wasn't gonna
lose that because my partner

had found himself after 16
years, I was happy for him

and then thrilled
for me. [chuckles]

You can actually see the
imprint of the impact we had

by welcoming trans men.

And the same thing for
bringing in transgender women

who identify as lesbian.

We covered some
trans lesbians very early

compared to some
other publications.

We didn't do as
great of a job of covering

black and brown women.

Our failing was that we didn't
push more to make it happen.

The goal was always to be
as intersectional as possible,

and we were able to accomplish
that as the years went on.

We're able to see how
much more we need to do now.

DENICE: So, Amber Hikes,
I'm really excited that you're

gonna be able to meet her
because she,

for the past two years,

has led the Mayor's
office of LGBT affairs and has

done some really
incredible work addressing

racism within the
LGBTQ community.

FRANCO: Hey!
AMBER: Hey!

It's good to see you. [laughs]

DENICE: It's good
to see you too!

FRANCO: I'm so
excited to meet you.

AMBER: Same here.

I'm really excited
to meet you as well.

There were not a lot of ways
that you could see yourself.

Way before "The L Word"
there was "Curve,"

and I could see myself
represented there.

DENICE: There's something to be
said around that moment that

a young person watches a video
where they feel affirmed

in their sexuality or their
gender presentation or identity.

And walking into a bookstore
and looking at "Curve,"

right, on a table.

I see that same moment, that
coming of age moment where

something in you unlocks
and says, "It's okay."

AMBER: It's okay.

And there's other people
that are like me. Yeah.

DENICE: You know, one of
the things about social media,

like folks who've been most
marginalized really having,

taking the microphone, being
able to create their own content

and tell their own stories
in their own words and then

be connected to a wide audience.

We want representation,
but we also want ownership.

We also want to be able
to make decisions, right?

-'Cause folks were saying
over and over again, they just

didn't feel like they
had that seat at the table.

They didn't feel
like they had a voice.

They weren't reflected in the
leadership of our organizations,

our LGBT organizations.

Policy wasn't
really impacting them.

So, the symbolic change was

to add these black and brown
stripes to the flag.

So, we raised the flag literally
right here at these flag poles

on a Thursday,
and by Friday morning,

it had gone completely viral.

CNN had picked it up,
"HuffPost" picked it up,

Breitbart picked it up. [laughs]
It was a scary time.

I joke about it now, but the
hate mail was out of control.

The death threats
were out of control.

The mayor got death
threats on my behalf!

Even people were so angry,
it's like at least you're

finally talking about it.
-Right.

-Because I feel like white folks
in the LGBT community have,

I mean, that's
how privilege works.

You were able to ignore
it for so long, right?

-Right. Exactly.
-And so, now, it's like fine.

Yell at me and tell me
racism doesn't exist.

But at least you're
talking about it. [laughs]

-I think something that
Amber and I often have to

remind folks of, and just
in conversation within

the LGBTQ community
or certain parts of it,

is that LGBTQ rights
is immigrant rights.

-That's right. That's right.
-Is black and brown rights.

-It's disability rights.
-Is disability rights.

And that these issues are
connected, and systems

of oppression are layered
and connected as well.

And so, we can't have
these siloed conversations.

-I know for me and the work
that I do, I am reminded very

literally every day about my
predecessors and the giants that

really paved the way for any of
the work that we're able to do.

-I would not be here if
it wasn't for the work of

Gloria Anzaldua,
Cherrie Moraga in particular,

Tatiana De La Tierra
who really were the first -

-All women we've covered
in the magazine too.

-And this is why "Curve"...
-It's amazing!

-You know? It's amazing!

-Hey, Franco, this
was such an honor.

-Thank you so much.
-God, this was amazing.

And thank you.

Thank you from younger me,
from like age 16.

-From little baby gay, pre-gay!
Almost bi, not really though.

-[laughs] Oh, you
doing all of it.

-We doing all of it! [laughter]

[upbeat music]

FRANCO: If you don't have a good
cover, you're not gonna attract

somebody to buy it
on the newsstand.

To start off with, we put women
in the community, either that

we thought were hot and sexy,
or somebody on staff

was possibly sleeping with,
I don't know.

But we'd always hoped
to have a celebrity.

The only out lesbian that
I could think of at the time

was Martina Navratilova.

And I'm pretty sure I thought
Lily Tomlin was a lesbian,

although she was not out.

-Johnny, it's a pleasure.

-So, I tried writing to
Martina Navratilova's people,

didn't get a response.

I tried writing to
Lily Tomlin's person.

One day, an intern said to me,

"Oh, somebody called while
you were in the bathroom.

She said her name was Lily
Tomlin or something like that."

And I'm like, "Wait. Lily Tomlin

called this office,
and I was in the bathroom?"

And I said,
"Tell me what she said."

"She said she would
love to be on the cover,

but she just doesn't think
the timing is right.

She can't, and she's
sure you will understand."

RACHEL: It was very frustrating
to have these singers and actors

that we knew, as a community,
were lesbian-identified

and were adored
by so many lesbians,

and we couldn't
get them on the cover!

FRANCO: Our first big
celebrity was Melissa Etheridge.

I was so blown away
that she said yes.

It was justifying
that hey, we've arrived.

We actually landed
our first celebrity,

"celesbian."

I got very involved in
the election of Clinton.

REPORTER: For the first time
in a race for the White House,

gay and lesbian issues were an
important part of the campaign.

MELISSA: I was invited to
the first ever triangle ball

at the inaugural celebration.

This was the first time
that gays

put anything like this together.

The gays were acknowledged

in helping Bill Clinton
get elected.

We were having a blast!
Everyone was.

KD Lang, she had just recently
come out, and she calls me up.

And I'm proud to say right now,
I'm very proud to have been

a lesbian all my life.
[cheers, applause]

Wow! The place went crazy.

And I was ah,
I think I just came out.

Someone called and said,
"Hey, there's this

new magazine for lesbians."

And I was like,
well, this is amazing!

This is great.

I was so happy to be
able to help the magazine,

and for them to help me.

I think it worked both ways.

So, a year went by till we
landed our next celebrities,

which were the Indigo Girls.

RACHEL: We were actually
the first glossy magazine

to put Ani DiFranco
on its cover.

And while I was interviewing her
on the telephone, she told me

she had backed up the
toilet in her hotel room

by shaving her head
into the toilet.

I remember young Rachel Maddow
in her leather jacket,

seeing her for the first time.

CAL: We all lusted over
the covers though, right?

And we were often elbowing
each other out of the way

to who would get
to go on the photo shoot,

who would get
to go on the interview,

who would get
to be on the phone call.

Lucy Lawless was my favorite.

Lea DeLaria.

Marga Gomez.

I just wanna say, my favorite
show is "Love Connection."

The favorite show of many gay
men, lesbians, and bisexuals.

Because it makes us feel
better about our choices.

[cheering]

FRANCO: We thought it
would be a no-brainer to get ads

like tampons and razors.

But the misconceived notion that
lesbians don't shave their legs,

and that we don't use tampons.

Advertisers really, you know,
struggled with figuring out

how are they going to
advertise in there.

INTERVIEWER: Is there a risk for
a company when it advertises in

gay magazines that a right wing
group might then indeed boycott?

GUEST: Absolutely.

The right is very organized, and
they've used gays and lesbians

as demon figures for years now.

REPORTER: "Deneuve," now
in its third year, has only

two mainstream ads
in its latest issue.

FRANCO: It's hard
selling a gay product,

and it's very hard selling
a lesbian product.

So, I do think
that there's kind of this

double negative going on.

KATIE: The day we got Bud
Light to advertise was huge.

We felt like we'd
suddenly arrived.

FRANCO: Bud Light was our
feather in the cap with our

first national ad.

Subaru was known as the
lesbian car of choice, and they

reinforced that by
making lesbian-specific ads.

And it just sort of opened up
different avenues for us

to break into different
advertising markets.

LAURA: She had this amazing
effect that was way beyond

just the readership
of "Curve" magazine

and way beyond the community.

The things that were
discussed in the magazine

were then picked up by
mainstream publications.

Those were the things that led

to all the gains
that we have made.

LEA: The magazine
contributed greatly to that.

It was all over the world.

Something shifted,
where lesbians started

to enter popular culture.

It began with KD Lang,
Melissa Etheridge,

and very soon after that time,
Ellen and Rosie.

ELLEN: Susan...I'm gay.

[uproarious laughter,
cheers from audience]

We do find out that the
character is Lebanese. And....

[laughter]

-Lebanese.
-Yeah, yeah.

-Just outta the blue? She just -
-No, there've been clues.

-Oh, really?
-I mean, you've seen her eating

baba ghanoush, if you've
watched the show at all.

[laughter]
-Baba ghanoush.

-And hummus and big,
big fan of Casey Casem

and Kathy and Jimmy's.
[laughter]

Yeah, and -
-Hey! Wait a minute!

I'm a big fan of Casey Casem.
Listen.

CASEY: You go, girl!

[laughter, applause]

-Maybe I'm Lebanese.
-You could be Lebanese.

-I could be Lebanese myself.
I didn't know that.

[laughter, cheers]
-You know, sometimes that's odd.

'Cause I pick up sometimes
that you might be Lebanese.

-Yeah!
[laughter]

MERRYN: There was
Sandra Bernhard.

There was Madonna.

They were glamorous, they
were successful, they were at

the top of their fields,
and this was newsworthy.

And on top of that,
it became fashionable.

Cindy Crawford did that
famous "Vanity Fair" cover

with KD Lang.
So, it was in the air.

And it really entered
the zeitgeist,

and it became attractive.

Straight women are now
seeing lesbians as chic,

although we always have been.

MERRYN: The impact of
lesbian chic was to give us

a sense of identity.

It was to give us a
profile that we hadn't had.

LAURA: When "The L Word" came
out, for example, people were

skeptical about it, particularly
'cause there were a lot of

femmes in there, more than
I think some people wanted.

And yet, they were able
to not only create a dialogue

in the magazine
and let people talk about

the good things of it,

the things they wished
they had seen differently,

but they were putting those
images on the cover.

They made "The L Word" credible.

They made it part
of the mainstream.

[driving music]

♪ I got this feeling on a
summer day when you were gone

♪ I crashed my car
into the bridge

♪ I watched and let it burn

♪ I threw your shit into a bag
and pushed it down the stairs

♪ I crashed my car
into the bridge

♪ I. Don't. Care.
I love it

♪ I don't care ♪

MARIAH: I started The Dinah
in 1991.

We really try to create an
environment of empowerment

and female visibility.

I can't tell you
how many stories

of people who come here to
find a sense of community

that will make them feel whole.

We are becoming so accepted
in mainstream society.

We're not quite there yet
but we're much closer

than we've ever been.

And yet, we still need
our own spaces because

we still have our own culture.

"Curve" created a bridge for
people that connected them

to our community and
to their own self-worth.

Because our spaces, and
having our spaces, are critical

to our collective self-esteem.

[driving music continues]

♪ I don't care I love it

♪ I don't care I love it ♪

RACHEL: We got someone
we wanted for the cover.

We got all these great
writers to contribute pieces.

We got columnists who
would write regularly.

We got a great reception
everywhere we went.

FRANCO: And what she's
done is so courageous.

She's risked her friends,
her family, her job, her house

to come and tell you who she is.

And for that, I think every
woman and every person

in this audience should
give her a hand.

RACHEL: Franco becoming
a celebrity and representative

of a new wave of lesbians
in the community,

everything was a triumph,
and everything felt good.

SANDI: It had become a name
that was recognizable.

FRANCO: Our subscription
numbers were rising.

Our newsstand sales were great.

We're starting
to get national ads.

Things are really good.

And then one day
this letter arrived at the door:

a lawsuit.

The air just went out of
everything like phhhooooo.

[somber music]

We were sued by a French
actress named Catherine Deneuve

over the name of the magazine.

She didn't want
her name associated

with a lesbian magazine.

She didn't want anybody to
think she might be a lesbian.

Really, you can sue
anybody for any reason.

Those with the
deeper pockets win.

RACHEL: The lawsuit came
as a complete surprise.

We couldn't believe that such
a prestigious film star would

really be bothering about us.

And if anything, why wasn't she
delighted that this wonderful

lesbian magazine
potentially bore her name?

After all, she had been
in "The Hunger,"

which is a lesbian cult film.

DEB: It's like if I starred
in three lesbian movies, but I

don't want you to call your
magazine "Deb," you know?

SANDI: It seemed homophobic
and all sorts of other things.

And so, it really hit Frank
in a lotta different areas.

I suppose if I had been
her lawyer at the time,

and she would've called me
and said, "Hey, I have this

great idea for the name
of a lesbian magazine.

I'd like to call it 'Deneuve,'"
I probably woulda said,

"Do you have her permission?"

We were sued in two
different countries:

two separate lawsuits,
two sets of different counsel,

two sets of bills,
two sets of filing fees.

We had to come up with lawyers,
we had to come up with money,

and we had to go down
and do a deposition.

Their focus was really on
the name of the magazine.

Where did the name of
the magazine come from?

It was her name,
and we had no right to it.

And we were using it
to sell our magazine.

All I kept thinking was

wow, they're gonna
put us out of business.

Was this magazine gonna fold?
Were we gonna lose our jobs?

We were terrified.
And Franco was terrified.

She lost weight, got real pale.

You could tell the stress
was really affecting her.

ROBIN: There was a light that
was gone for a little while.

And at one point, she said,
"Do I keep fighting,

or do I just take this
as a sign and close it up?"

FRANCO: The lawsuit was the most
stressful time in my whole life.

My hair started to fall out.

And I didn't let on
to the true extent

of the financial difficulties
that we were having.

DEB: Franco came to the office,
and she was really stressed out.

Her face was red.
She was sweating.

She slapped this
thing down on the table.

[sighs] "We got the
money for the next issue."

And in this roll of paper that
she had set on the table was

a giant stack of money,
like from a movie.

When I walked in to take
money from a loan shark,

I thought,
I have hit rock bottom.

And if this fails, I might be
really physically in danger.

Everybody was just up in
arms like, are you kidding?

You can't take
this away from us.

We're gonna have to fight
this together as a community.

We really had this urgency that
we were not gonna be defeated.

You know, you come so far,
you're not gonna go backward.

That's how people felt.

There was no way that
we could let it happen.

She had this lesbian army
behind her willing to

go into battle with her.

The magazine was
definitely worth fighting for.

There's nothing I wouldn't
do to save the magazine.

CAL: One morning, she comes in,
in her full combat fatigues,

and she said, "Girls, we are
not gonna let this beat us."

It turned the page.

FRANCO: Somebody had
an idea that we could

throw a big fundraiser
to save the magazine.

-I'd like to say good
morning to everybody.

We didn't sleep
at all last night.

-Not at all?
-No ma'am.

Well, I actually snuck
in a couple of hours.

Franco, 45 minutes.

-Good morning, sunshine.

PAGE: The idea was to gather
all of the artists that we knew

and throw this massive party
to raise resources

to help Frank fight.

It was our community really,
really banding together

to support Frank.

-Tell us how
you're feeling today.

-I'm really hoping -
-That everybody comes today.

-[sobbing]

-There's lotsa love here.
I'm seeing love.

FRANCO: People we had
interviewed through the magazine

found out, and they wanted
to come and fly themselves

to San Francisco and
be part of this event.

People wanted to donate stuff
for a silent auction

and a live auction, and lesbian
celebrities even auctioned off

dates with themselves.

I remember Lea DeLaria.

What was happening to the
magazine was fucking bullshit.

And I wanted to help.

We got $800 over here.
We're looking for $850.

We're looking for $850.
We got $850 on the line!

[cheering]

I wish I could say
it's the first time

I've auctioned myself
off for a date!

KATIE: So many people
came out to support us.

-It was like a Who's Who
of lesbian comedians,

lesbian music, lesbian authors.

-She'll read to you
in a limo, okay?

PAGE: It was packed,
completely packed.

There was so much
power in the room.

It was mecca.

[energetic, pulsing dance music]

FRANCO: I had never seen the
lesbian community come together

as a whole for
something that wasn't

strictly a political movement.

I mean, maybe coming together
to save the magazine

was a political action.

DEB: And it was just by
the love of the community

and the contributions of
the people that performed

that allowed us to keep going.

FRANCO: And now I'm overwhelmed
by the support you're giving me

and the support you're
giving the magazine.

And thank you so, so much.

[cheers, applause]

We got to a point where
we were either like, all right,

change the name and live
to publish another day.

Or be stubborn,
keep the name, and go under

from just the legal fees alone.

And we were able to settle,
and the settlement required us

to change our name.

One day, Franco came
and she says, "I got it."

And she had been sitting
on a bench somewhere

looking out at a view.

And she noticed that
the hills were curvaceous,

and she thought "Curve."

"Curve."

We were like what?!
We loved it.

VICKI: That's a great name!

We've changed
the name starting

with the January '96
Martina Navratilova cover.

The same magazine, the same
product with just a new name.

"Curve" isn't straight.

It's bent, it's gay, it's...

the curves of a woman's body,
it's beautiful.

It's a much better name.

People can pronounce it!

-Thanks, "Curve."

[pensive music]

[music slowly fades out]

[birds singing, distant traffic]

[hooves against the dirt track]

FRANCO: Every month,
we'd get in these boxes.

Each box weighed
33 to 35 pounds.

Magazines, like a
little box like this.

But they were heavy.

So, I would pile
two or three boxes up,

and I would just
carry them to the back.

We'd get done twice
or three times as fast!

And I would cut through the
kitchen, and we had this carpet.

And I must've just hit
the carpet wrong because....

I hit the carpet wrong,
and I just remember

that feeling of like...you know.

The next thing I knew
I was just in a lot of pain,

and I was on my way
to the hospital.

[pensive music]

LAURA: When I walked
into the hospital room,

I was like, what happened?

I mean, dropping boxes on her
feet, they dropped and literally

crushed the bones in her feet,
the tendons in her feet.

And the doctors
were like, oh, it'll heal.

It's just, it's like
a broken foot. You'll be fine.

I don't think that I or
any of her friends really

at the time knew how much
pain she really was in.

I think we all thought
an accident happened,

no problem, it'll heal.
And she'll be back.

Week after week of doing that,
it clearly was, we were starting

to realize that something
was not, it was not fine.

The pain wasn't
decreasing at all.

She's going to multiple doctors.

Now she's having
multiple surgeries.

Every time I seem
like I had surgery,

instead of getting better,

my feet would just get
more and more sensitive

to the point where I could not
wear shoes and socks.

I couldn't have the
covers touching my feet.

I couldn't even put my
feet in running water.

-What did it feel like?

-Like knives
or like being burnt.

She hid a lot of her pain.

She hid, I think, a lot of
how it was affecting her.

Because she wanted to portray

the person that
everyone saw her as:

this very strong, invincible
person that could do anything.

Finally, she realized, I have to
change how I'm living my life.

And it started to dawn on
her that she was probably

not gonna be able to continue
to run the magazine.

FRANCO: This is what it's like.
Give me your hand.

JEN: Uuuuuh.... No.

FRANCO: Give me your hand.
This is what it's like.

I'm sitting here.

I'm in a meeting, and this is
what's happening with my foot.

Talk to me. Talk to me.

You might get stabbed at
any time by this sharp object.

You know, this is why I didn't
continue to do the magazine.

This is why
I had to turn it over.

It's like, I can't sit here
and be completely present

because of the pain.

And not only like the
physical pain, but this anx-,

this pain of like, okay,
concentrate now.

You never know when this is
gonna come down and stab you.

And it's very exhausting.

People had wanted to buy
the magazine for a long time,

but I was not ready.

I wanted to sell it to
somebody who really was in it

for the right reasons,
and that was her.

-Yeah.
-So.

No regrets.

I felt like my work needed to
be carried on by other people.

-It's Merryn.
How are you?

Franco did a very brave thing
when she put the word "lesbian"

on the cover of
"Curve" magazine.

And to just get that on
the front of a magazine

was a victory.

To have many requests from
readers asking me to take that

word off, because they felt it
was excluding or erasing them

seemed to me like we were
going back in history.

I think it's necessary for
individuals to use the words

that they, themselves, identify
with, without fear of reprisal

or without fear of being
accused of erasing somebody

with a different
identity to them.

In the end, I and my
publisher, Silke Bader,

decided to remove the word.

For better or worse,
it is now gone.

The magazine has a much
broader aesthetic now.

It can be whatever
you want it to be for you.

-Yeah, there it is!

So, it definitely
looks a lot different today

than it did back then.

-It kinda looks like a
"Vogue"-type magazine,

like high fashion.

-Yeah, it would be.

I just don't know how
you would know that that's

a lesbian magazine
from the front cover.

-Gay media used
to be a very big deal:

"The Advocate,"
"Curve," all the others.

And now that's
been mainstreamed.

There's so much gay material
in mainstream media,

which is sort of
the success, right?

That it's there,
so you don't need

these separate publications.

And so, it's happened not
just with gay magazines,

but you know,
African-American magazines.

Now things have
been mainstreamed.

And so, that's a good
thing and a bad thing.

That's a success, and it's
also a loss at the same time.

FRANCO: We're trying to
figure out is a lesbian magazine

still needed today?

I mean the mission was really to
foster lesbian visibility within

our community and also
externally from the outside in.

And is the mission
still relevant?

-It's still really relevant
and very important.

Yeah.

-We still need a reminder
of the history of our movement

and also a beat
on what's happening.

FRANCO: But does it need to
be a physical print magazine?

EMILY: No, I don't think so.
-Do you read magazines?

-No, I don't.
-Do you read magazines?

-No.
-[laughs]

-Magazines? Magazines?

I think there's different
ways to tell stories than just

actually writing them out.

-There's this huge
misconception that

because we have
marriage equality,

we must have
employment protections.

We must have
housing protections.

We must have public
accommodation discrimination

protections, and we
don't on a national level.

So, we get calls every day from
people whose children are being

taken away from them by the
courts because the judge is

homophobic or transphobic.

We get calls every day
by people who are denied

basic medical care
because of their identity.

-People are really scared.

People are really scared
of what's coming next.

And it's not safe
to be queer right now.

It just isn't.

MARCHERS: What do we want?
Gay rights!

When do we want them?
Now!

-We've been
fighting for equality.

We've been fighting to not get
beat up or to have our job

taken away because of who we
love: very, very sort of basic.

And in that fight,
we became more visible.

As we became more visible,
we also became a target.

-You know, you're obviously

a strong advocate
for lesbian rights,

and you've mentioned
that you'd someday like

to have a child or children.

How would you raise the child?
Could you be neutral?

FRANCO: I'd raise a child
as a child should be raised,

in a loving family.

-I wonder if you can
give the child options.

GERALDO: What she's saying is -

and we're skirting
around it -

she's saying that
you're gonna propagandize

and brainwash the child
into being gay like you.

-I mean, shouldn't the kid
have a right to a father?

What are you gonna tell the kid
when he asks, "Where's Daddy?"

"Oh, he's the one with the
breasts." I mean, come on.

KATIE: I looked forward to the
day that a magazine like ours

wouldn't be necessary
because we wouldn't

be discriminated against.
We wouldn't be isolated.

We would see ourselves
reflected everywhere.

And to some extent,
we've made huge strides.

I feel like in the last
couple of years,

we've started to go backwards,

and things that
we took for granted

are now in question again.

DEB: What's at risk right
now for the gay community is a

throwback to discrimination
and being seen as "other."

And I think it's
really important

to not let up for a minute.

The old line, people who don't
know their history are doomed to

repeat it, what everybody fought
so hard for could be lost.

-There's a sense that because
gay marriage is no longer

an impossibility, people
have an illusion of safety.

How safe any of us are...
I don't know.

[suspenseful music]

There is growing concern
in this country, and fear,

about deadly attacks against
transgender Americans,

particularly trans
women of color.

More than 100 anti-LGBT
bills have been

introduced in 29 states.

The U.S. Supreme Court sided
today with a Colorado baker

who refused, on religious
grounds, to make a wedding cake

for a same-sex couple.

REPORTER: Georgia became
the first U.S. state to pass

a so-called religious freedom
bill, allowing businesses and

organizations to withhold
services from gays and lesbians.

Mississippi passed
its own version.

Critics say it's
the harshest yet.

-When it comes to marriage,
obviously the Supreme Court

handed us a huge victory in
2015 recognizing the freedom

to marry for same-sex couples.

But in another sense,
we're subject to a patchwork

of state protections: Only 28
states expressly protecting

people who are LGBT
from being fired

or turned away from
housing or public places

simply because of who they are.

All of a sudden,
the rights that

we didn't even
realize we had are gone.

Like little things that
protected us in our jobs

in different cities and stuff
like that, they've all been

just like picked,
picked, picked away.

The Trump administration has
told the Supreme Court that

employers should be free
to fire people simply because

they're gay or transgender.

Similarly, the administration
has told transgender troops

they're not welcome
to serve in our military

unless they hide who they are.

The new regulation
keeps transgender troops

from serving openly.

It also blocks troops
from receiving care

if they transition
to another gender.

-...the fact that
we're being erased by

this current administration
from the websites.

We're being erased
from the census bureau.

-You know, if we're not
counted, we're not visible.

All of these moves are efforts
to push LGBTQ people

out of public life,
to push us back

to where they think we
belong, and to roll back

civil rights protections we've
enjoyed for decades now.

[uplifting music,
flags waving in the wind]

FRANCO: I thought that once
we achieved marriage equality,

that we would have equal
rights across the board.

Instead of now, we're doing this
slide down the hill, of yes,

we got that right, but we're
really under attack now.

Conservative forces are
trying to dehumanize us

every single day.

When I think of "Curve,"
I think again,

it's this power of a space
that's ours, right?

And the space doesn't
have to be just publication.

I mean,
it's creating that space,

it's fighting for that space,

and also letting
younger folks know that

there is that space,
when they're ready.

And that we're
ready to support them.

-You know, that's always
been the mission at "Curve."

[knocking]

FRANCO: Come in!
[dog barks]

LAURA: Hey, Frank!

What you started was, at
the time, and granted you were

on the shoulders
of other lesbians -

and women before you.
-The greats, yes.

For sure.

I didn't start the movement.
That's for darn sure!

-Right, right, right.
No, of course not.

But you created a foundation
to fight for equality.

You created a foundation
for dialogue and creating

conversations and content
that nobody was creating.

-I think it's really
interesting that you keep

using this word "foundation."

Because maybe "Curve" could be
a foundation going forward:

a foundation to foster
women's voices, and give money

to projects that
women are doing.

You know, from going around
North America, really, and

speaking to younger activists,
they all said the same thing:

that our voices
need to be heard.

Meeting them was very powerful.

They really are true
advocates for our community.

Maybe a print magazine
isn't needed anymore.

Maybe I've fulfilled
that mission.

-Yeah.

-But giving a voice
to the LGBT community,

that vision is not accomplished.

Having equal rights
is not accomplished.

-Are you ready to let
the print magazine go?

-[heavy sigh]

If the community's saying
they don't need that anymore,

I have to come to grips with it.

It's gonna be one of those
hard days in my life for sure,

when the last print edition
of "Curve" comes out.

I don't feel like
without a magazine,

there's no me, you know?

I feel like I have...

you know, I have
made a difference.

Running a magazine, you...

learn that the impossible things
can become possible.

[mellow music]

DENICE: It's so incredibly
important for us to be connected

to our lineage, to those
who came before us.

I often think about those who
walk through a door and cracked

it open wider, so that we could
walk through it after them.

There's still a lot of work
to do to fight homophobia,

to fight transphobia,
to fight gender violence.

So, when I hear young people
say, "I feel less alone because

I listen to your poems every
night," or, "I wrote my own poem

because of your poem,"
I feel like maybe

I'm doing a little bit
of good in the world.

KIM: Fifty years ago,
I could not exist!

I could not have this family.
I could not have this life.

I could not do the things that I
do or say the things that I say.

And there are so many people
who have made it possible

for this moment in time.

I feel like, "thank you!"

And so, I have work to do
with this, because this space

is constantly under threat.

Ideally, visibility looks like
us being able to be the authors

of our own experience and to
be able to tell our own stories.

I mean, I'm committed to
making sure that generations

in the future see more
visibility, more freedom

than what we have access to now.

ANDREA: The reality is that our
movement still needs mentorship.

And I see myself as a person
who can be that for other people

by living authentically,
by telling my story,

by being all of who I am.

When there is so much at stake
right now, our positive stories

are some of the most
powerful tools that we have.

I want folks to pay attention
rather than to just think

that this is something
that we can't correct.

Now is the time to go to that
8:00 AM march on a Saturday,

to vote in every single
election, to run for office

if you feel like you can, to
speak up, to share your story.

This is what makes our
visibility so powerful.

[upbeat music in the parade,
happily cheering crowds]

[dance music: "Everybody
Everybody" by Black Box]

♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

[dance music continues]

♪ You won't belong to me
I let you down

♪ I walk around and
see your night skyline

♪ I feel the light but
you don't want to stay

♪ So lonely now,
just let me off downtown

♪ Set it free, set it free

♪ Set it free, set it free....

FRANCO: I feel lucky.

Most people can
spend a lifetime

and still never know why
they were put here on earth.

I was here
to create the magazine.

Every time we put out
a magazine, it felt

groundbreaking, like the
work was so important.

And the work is not done.

I feel hopeful.

I'm really excited to see what
the next generation of activists

do and how they use make the
changes that need to happen.

Maybe I helped
lay the foundation

for what will come next.

Now, that would be my legacy.

♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

♪ Everybody, everybody
Everybody, everybody

♪ Oh, everybody! Everybody!
Everybody!

♪ Everybody, everybody
Everybody, everybody

♪ Oh, everybody
Everybody, everybody

♪ Everybody, everybody ♪

[upbeat music]