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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:20,447 --> 00:00:25,343 I'm gonna get you mic'd up and then I will text, Ash to... 4 00:00:25,393 --> 00:00:29,153 ...so we can go in the door, he'll let us in from the inside so... 5 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,320 Oh it's Ray, hello Ray 6 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,064 How you doing man? 7 00:00:41,088 --> 00:00:43,088 Wow 8 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,940 Taken care of... taken care of... bless you 9 00:00:50,330 --> 00:00:53,635 Oh yeah, I was Detective Banks - Detective Banks! 10 00:00:53,685 --> 00:00:58,488 Yes I brought that little guy back to his family after eight years missing 11 00:00:58,538 --> 00:01:01,716 Good, good, I'll let you do your thing... Hey folks 12 00:01:01,766 --> 00:01:04,301 All right you're good to button that up 13 00:01:21,859 --> 00:01:24,190 Joey Cramer... 14 00:01:36,356 --> 00:01:40,483 Randal had called me one day and said "did you hear about Joey?" and I said "No I hadn't" 15 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:42,830 I wondered always what had happened to him 16 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,553 Someone had sent me a link about Joey being arrested 17 00:01:47,603 --> 00:01:50,786 Like you're kidding me? What was it a bank robbery or something? 18 00:01:51,103 --> 00:01:53,173 I was startled, really startled 19 00:01:53,223 --> 00:01:56,110 Joe seemed like a totally normal kid when I worked with him 20 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,350 I didn't see any sign that there was any problems 21 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,053 I was kind of surprised when I saw his mug shot and thought "what happened to him?" 22 00:02:03,103 --> 00:02:07,306 I didn't know how early he had started drugs until much later 23 00:02:07,814 --> 00:02:11,264 It's not just a story about a kid actor that goes to jail, it's about... 24 00:02:11,314 --> 00:02:12,284 ...what happened? 25 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,739 I think acting as a child is wonderful, though I think it's really important not to 26 00:02:17,789 --> 00:02:20,186 turn it into their only identity 27 00:02:20,567 --> 00:02:24,489 When I tried to go back to school and be normal, I was anything but normal 28 00:02:24,539 --> 00:02:28,100 and before I knew it my childhood was gone 29 00:04:06,938 --> 00:04:09,722 so 30 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,040 Hi, it's getting close to Christmas 31 00:04:16,483 --> 00:04:21,455 21st today, so it's the winter solstice, 32 00:04:21,709 --> 00:04:27,459 which, I was told by a good friend of mine, it's good to 33 00:04:28,259 --> 00:04:35,498 to pray and meditate and stuff on what we want to manifest for the next year 34 00:04:35,548 --> 00:04:41,280 and our lives and everything so did a lot of that last night 35 00:04:43,043 --> 00:04:45,782 Sometimes it's really hard 36 00:04:46,987 --> 00:04:49,652 because I think... 37 00:04:53,556 --> 00:05:00,488 Sometimes I think "Oh I'm 44 now and I like totally thrown my whole life away and..." 38 00:05:00,538 --> 00:05:04,298 "...what if this, and what if that, what if this?" but 39 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,840 oh man 40 00:05:13,843 --> 00:05:16,298 I don't really know what to say 41 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:25,440 Up until this last time every time I went to jail yeah I... I pretty much knew I'd be back 42 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,440 They don't make it easy to come out and succeed 43 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,710 It's just this cycle, I was here with guys who'd been in and out of jail for 44 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,134 most of their lives 45 00:05:35,184 --> 00:05:39,279 We're gonna go I guess around the corner, and I haven't been back here since that 46 00:05:39,329 --> 00:05:40,540 infamous day 47 00:05:40,590 --> 00:05:46,331 I just started feeling more and more hopeless, so I started looking up crimes 48 00:05:46,381 --> 00:05:50,488 I felt like I... that I let a lot of people down 49 00:05:51,578 --> 00:05:55,713 and that I, um... 50 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,686 and that that's not me. 51 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,350 I like these electronic clap boards.. 52 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,847 "Flight of the Navigator" was a really interesting project 53 00:06:12,897 --> 00:06:15,702 from the point of view of how it began 54 00:06:15,752 --> 00:06:19,390 My partner Robby Wald and I found the original script, it was 55 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,596 written by someone who'd never written a script before 56 00:06:22,646 --> 00:06:25,910 "Flight of the Navigator" was my first original screenplay, and it was called 57 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,461 "Vanished"... it came from a dream 58 00:06:28,511 --> 00:06:32,430 We took it to Disney - Richard Berger was the president of Disney at that time, 59 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,150 he took the project to the board of directors actually, 60 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,950 very unusual step and he got the board to approve picking up the domestic distribution rights 61 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,780 They had made a partnership with Producers Sales Organization, 62 00:06:43,830 --> 00:06:47,607 which was an action company... Disney wanted to make a family movie so I was 63 00:06:47,657 --> 00:06:50,021 caught in the middle, you know I was back and forth and back and 64 00:06:50,045 --> 00:06:53,326 of course Disney won because they they were more powerful 65 00:06:53,376 --> 00:06:57,870 It was the Disney of Jeff Katzenberg, they only owned the movie for the US rights... 66 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,550 They had a great deal of control over the process 67 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:07,504 Most of the elements that I had in my film were in the final film, but it's the changes that really 68 00:07:07,554 --> 00:07:08,682 make it different 69 00:07:08,732 --> 00:07:13,966 It was more of a serious film, in my story they build the ship from his memory so 70 00:07:14,016 --> 00:07:19,310 they're experimenting with technology that they don't understand but David does 71 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,990 and it gets to a point where he realizes they're never going to let him go 72 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,065 John Avildsen was attached at one point... 73 00:07:26,115 --> 00:07:28,730 Brian de Palma wanted to direct 74 00:07:28,780 --> 00:07:30,883 finally Randal became director 75 00:07:30,933 --> 00:07:33,558 I originally wanted to be a cartoonist for Walt Disney 76 00:07:33,608 --> 00:07:36,270 I made some cartoons in junior high school 77 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,329 Our family drove out to California and tried to show it to Walt Disney but 78 00:07:40,379 --> 00:07:41,870 we were turned away at the gate 79 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,509 So I gave up cartoons and I decided to do live action, and then in high school I made lots of 80 00:07:46,559 --> 00:07:51,668 8mm films, applied to USC film school, and at that time it was not thought of 81 00:07:51,718 --> 00:07:54,190 as a serious major 82 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,909 So I came out to California from Philadelphia, had a wonderful group of classmates 83 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:03,150 including George Lucas, Caleb Deschanel, John Carpenter, it was quite a class 84 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,264 We were all told that we would never be able to get into the movie business because no one 85 00:08:07,314 --> 00:08:08,244 had at that point 86 00:08:08,294 --> 00:08:10,896 The studio system was in place and they were making movies like 87 00:08:10,946 --> 00:08:13,131 Doris Day, Rock Hudson movies 88 00:08:13,181 --> 00:08:17,695 The industry was a closed industry, you had to be related to someone or 89 00:08:17,745 --> 00:08:20,830 have contacts of some kind to get any kind of a job but 90 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,938 the tide changed, the industry changed, the viewing habits of the public changed, 91 00:08:24,988 --> 00:08:30,910 and suddenly people who were our age were going to movies made by people their own age: us 92 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,150 I started doing TV movies and then moved on to "Grease", and 93 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,573 "Blue Lagoon" and "White Fang", and then 94 00:08:37,623 --> 00:08:39,950 "Flight of the Navigator" came along at Disney 95 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,499 There I was back at Disney where I was turned away many years ago, as a 96 00:08:44,549 --> 00:08:47,851 13-year old with a little can of animated film 97 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,280 Hi, my name is Chris O'Donnell and I'm from Stuartown 98 00:08:53,788 --> 00:08:58,855 "Is this thing gonna leak?" "Navigator, I do not leak, you leak, remember?" 99 00:08:58,905 --> 00:09:01,166 "You know something? I don't think I like you" 100 00:09:01,216 --> 00:09:05,263 One of the biggest aspects of the movie was the casting of the kid 101 00:09:05,313 --> 00:09:07,895 We had had casting people in New York, 102 00:09:07,945 --> 00:09:10,190 we had casting people in LA, 103 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,622 we had casting people I believe in Chicago 104 00:09:12,672 --> 00:09:15,157 We saw hundreds of boys one of them was Joaquin Phoenix 105 00:09:15,207 --> 00:09:18,389 We saw everybody that was eligible at that time 106 00:09:18,439 --> 00:09:21,434 When I was working with Mike Fenton and Jane Feinberg, which was 107 00:09:21,484 --> 00:09:25,914 the top casting directors in town at that time, they had done "E.T", 108 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:31,310 "Back to the Futures", "Indiana Jones"... we even put River Phoenix in one of the Indiana Jones 109 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:36,270 They didn't want children that were trained, they wanted somebody who kind of walked in the 110 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:37,710 door and was natural 111 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,040 So it was important for them to find an organic experience 112 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:49,840 I didn't say under the ocean..all I... - Let's start again okay, all set? 113 00:09:51,081 --> 00:09:54,479 - Ready? - Caged animal and action! 114 00:09:54,971 --> 00:09:58,554 I didn't say take us under the ocean, all I asked for was a 115 00:09:58,604 --> 00:09:59,884 place they couldn't find us 116 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,840 I was hoping they would get a good kid, 'cos it all depended on him 117 00:10:04,116 --> 00:10:07,182 You know something? I don't think I like you 118 00:10:07,499 --> 00:10:13,870 All right, so I first got into acting and interested when I was about 8 years old 119 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,095 My mom worked at UBC, the university in Vancouver 120 00:10:18,145 --> 00:10:19,630 in the theater department 121 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,255 The head of the department was doing the musical South Pacific 122 00:10:24,305 --> 00:10:26,983 so he asked if Joe would do it 123 00:10:27,033 --> 00:10:33,500 People thought he was adorable, and he was, he's adorable. I mean he was adorable! 124 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:36,750 People kept saying to me "Oh you want to get him in the movies!" 125 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,412 I wanted nothing to do with it because I didn't want to be a stage mother 126 00:10:41,462 --> 00:10:44,064 I had none of that in me at all 127 00:10:44,114 --> 00:10:50,830 But my friend said "Well you know, you could get a head shot and see what happens" 128 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,494 Sure enough he started getting commercials 129 00:10:53,544 --> 00:10:58,670 The next thing was an audition for a movie with Tom Selleck 130 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,698 and before we even got home he'd got that one 131 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,437 Once "Runaway" came out, he was seen 132 00:11:06,487 --> 00:11:11,310 We got a call from Jeff Katzenberg in fact, and he said "Well I have some tapes of some kids..." 133 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,641 ...I'd like you to look at them" and Joey was in the group 134 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,181 So, I got the audition, they flew me to California 135 00:11:17,231 --> 00:11:22,146 That was a big deal, they flew us to Los Angeles and we stayed in a 136 00:11:22,196 --> 00:11:26,340 motel on Franklin Avenue, and Randal just talked to Joe 137 00:11:26,390 --> 00:11:32,910 and I started to talk a little bit and Randal said "no no, just let him talk" 138 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,364 My feeling is that once he met Joe it was hands down 139 00:11:37,998 --> 00:11:43,630 He was very very personable, and I could feel that I connected with him as a person 140 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:49,150 When he did the crying scene that's what made me realize this is a guy because he was so 141 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:55,390 emotionally available, so easily triggered to cry and that was an important part of this character 142 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,110 and sometimes when you're working with kids it's hard to get that out of them but with him you just 143 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,733 turn it on and bam it's there and you get it on the first take 144 00:12:02,783 --> 00:12:06,023 When I'm sitting in a room, and I'm watching one actor after another 145 00:12:06,073 --> 00:12:08,590 do the same dialogue and the same scenes 146 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,910 and there's somebody that walks in that room, that gets you to forget that you're even in that room 147 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,890 you know you've got something special 148 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:19,525 I didn't have reservations about Joe being a child actor because 149 00:12:19,575 --> 00:12:21,550 I didn't think of it in that way 150 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,381 We weren't in it for the money or anything except the adventure 151 00:12:25,431 --> 00:12:28,591 I mean, not every little kid gets to do that 152 00:12:28,641 --> 00:12:32,777 My first impressions of Joey, working with Joey was "Ugh..." 153 00:12:32,827 --> 00:12:36,270 "...he's so much better than I am as an actor" 154 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,150 His emotional life seemed to be real 155 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,959 When you think about it, Joey is in almost every frame of that movie 156 00:12:43,009 --> 00:12:45,150 and so you've got to carry a film 157 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,099 at his age, that's a daunting responsibility 158 00:12:48,149 --> 00:12:52,910 What was so interesting about Joey is, ' cos I'd worked with child actors before... 159 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,061 having been a child actor myself 160 00:12:55,111 --> 00:12:59,916 He was very accessible to his emotions, he was that boy 161 00:12:59,966 --> 00:13:03,981 He was darling, he was just darling. What was he, 12? 162 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,350 I had been driven out to the set to sort of meet everybody and it was very very pink and 163 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:16,990 this beautiful sunset that only happens in that latitude and there were these tiny just 164 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,560 thousands of these tiny puffy puffy white clouds, and Randal pointed at the sky and he was like 165 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,616 "that's why we're shooting in Florida" 166 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,630 We talked about filming the movie in a lot of different places 167 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,436 We started out thinking we could do it up in like Salt Lake City 168 00:13:31,486 --> 00:13:35,945 and then the weather started to get bad, and we kept being boxed out of places 169 00:13:35,995 --> 00:13:37,390 where we could do the project 170 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,425 Ultimately Florida seemed to be the only place where you actually had white puffy clouds 171 00:13:42,475 --> 00:13:46,416 and blue skies. We were based in Fort Lauderdale and that's where we shot the movie 172 00:13:46,466 --> 00:13:50,830 Going on, on a location to shoot a movie was my favourite thing to do 173 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,052 As a little kid, I think big picture was I'm excited I don't have to be in school 174 00:13:55,102 --> 00:13:58,529 Being the first major role that I had, I remember thinking 175 00:13:58,579 --> 00:14:02,190 "Wow, there's a lot of down time", so we did get to spend a lot of time together 176 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,550 We just all had such a great time on the movie, it was terrific 177 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,151 So I was cast to play the young girl who, um... 178 00:14:10,201 --> 00:14:11,787 David had a crush on 179 00:14:11,837 --> 00:14:15,950 and I was riding my bike, I had to say "hi David" in a way that was a little bit flirty 180 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,150 "Hi David"..."hi Jennifer" 181 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,652 The funniest thing that I really remember is, I wasn't actually riding down the street 182 00:14:23,702 --> 00:14:29,230 This one guy, his job was to push me out on the bike from behind the tree 183 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:34,640 I was just sitting there waiting on the bike, and I must have been pushed out from behind that bush 184 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:37,390 I mean probably 300 times 185 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,056 There's really not much more to it other than he kind of gets busted looking at me 186 00:14:41,106 --> 00:14:44,950 so, there's some of that father-son interaction, which is kind of cute 187 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,350 Well the first challenge was 188 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,510 there's a first scene where there's a Frisbee throwing contest and when the dogs are jumping 189 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:56,127 It's Miami, it's sunny, I was a somewhat chubby little kid and sitting there on his shoulders 190 00:14:56,177 --> 00:15:02,510 This took all day... my shoulders ached for a couple of days, I said "damn is he heavy or what?" 191 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,082 I didn't tell Jeff, I didn't want to upset him, but later I said 192 00:15:07,132 --> 00:15:10,990 "Let's not have any more kid on the shoulders scenes, please" 193 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,310 The scene when I'm trying to signal Joey back to the house was probably the most 194 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,320 viscerally memorable scene for me just in terms of the action sequence of doing that 195 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,093 Going up on the roof was pretty scary 196 00:15:23,143 --> 00:15:26,731 It was very windy, I can't even believe they let me do it actually 197 00:15:26,781 --> 00:15:29,520 I don't think they would let some... an actor do that nowadays 198 00:15:30,345 --> 00:15:33,630 Can you see him yet? - Not yet 199 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:41,070 In all honesty, things went so smoothly for me the challenge that I had was believing everything 200 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:46,190 which was very easy, because the environment was created and it was so real 201 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,012 I mean, we believed we were in that police station 202 00:15:49,062 --> 00:15:52,430 You know, when we get into the car it's real 203 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,412 and then the... the moment which even when I think of it now it affects me emotionally 204 00:15:57,462 --> 00:16:02,132 is bringing him to the door of his house to meet his parents for the first time in eight years 205 00:16:02,182 --> 00:16:05,212 It was like a very, very vulnerable and powerful moment 206 00:16:05,262 --> 00:16:07,840 and I was so glad to be a part of something like that 207 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,230 One of the things that always amazed me was the very beginning, when David falls into the crevasse 208 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,910 where that was done, which was down in Miami, they turned a somewhat 209 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,792 jungle location during the middle of the day 210 00:16:19,842 --> 00:16:23,644 into a scary evening scene with fog 211 00:16:23,694 --> 00:16:28,383 Little known fact, there's the one scene where he walks across the train tracks, David, and he 212 00:16:28,433 --> 00:16:31,109 throws a stone - that's not me, that's a stand-in 213 00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:34,462 My stand-in was a wonderful woman named Rosie 214 00:16:34,843 --> 00:16:39,630 Chronologically the opening scene was not filmed first 215 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,112 I'm wondering what the first scene was? 216 00:16:42,162 --> 00:16:46,585 I think it was actually when uh, they pull up home from the Frisbee competition 217 00:16:46,635 --> 00:16:51,407 and funny enough on the radio... "You're The One That I Want" 218 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,150 The movie takes place in 1978, and when they're driving up to the house I thought 219 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,870 it'd be fun to put "You're The One That I Want" on the radio 'cos it was just a little nod 220 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,065 to a movie I did before this 221 00:17:04,115 --> 00:17:07,440 Randal had one of the first cell phones I'd ever seen 222 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,370 That was about the size of a WWII American army walkie-talkie 223 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:17,167 I mean it was huge 224 00:17:17,217 --> 00:17:22,091 and I would see him between takes talking on this thing 225 00:17:22,141 --> 00:17:25,760 "What is that?" - "It's a cell phone"... I thought 226 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,710 You must be in contact with NASA through this thing 227 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,750 I just remember him being very open to improvisation 228 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,310 The beginning of the film, jumped out of the car and there was 229 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,830 "Weasel, dork... buttface, scuzzbucket..." 230 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,030 And that was Randal just saying "Hey, what would you guys say?" 231 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,093 During the very beginning in the back of the car and 232 00:17:45,143 --> 00:17:49,070 "You little dehydrated pizza face!" 233 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,456 That was my line as well, Randal was like "what would you call your little brother?" 234 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,270 So I had a fat lip in that scene, which you can kind of see 235 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,350 I can't remember exactly what happened... 236 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,674 I vividly remember, the sidewalk that I ride the bike down, 237 00:18:02,724 --> 00:18:07,402 there's a shrubbery before you see me come out, and right on the other side of the shrubbery 238 00:18:07,452 --> 00:18:11,123 Joey and I were on skateboards crashing into each other 239 00:18:11,173 --> 00:18:14,954 I think by accident like my skateboard popped up and smacked him in the mouth 240 00:18:15,004 --> 00:18:17,228 and it was like panic on set 241 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,336 Ever since I saw the opening of the red sea in "The Ten Commandments" 242 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,350 I wanted to do some special effects because that affected me so much 243 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,255 That's when I started looking around for a way to make this movie different 244 00:18:30,305 --> 00:18:33,870 make the spaceship different, something we haven't seen before 245 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,740 ...so I went to my brother Jeff 246 00:18:36,057 --> 00:18:40,910 We've worked on films since his high school films, you know I was an actor in his first film 247 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,190 At the time in 1985, I was about seven years into 248 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,368 a first company that I founded in New York doing computer animation, 249 00:18:50,418 --> 00:18:53,985 we had worked on "Tron" before that, the company was called Digital Effects 250 00:18:54,035 --> 00:18:58,676 I was hanging out with Jeff and saw this Tide bottle that he was doing for a commercial 251 00:18:58,726 --> 00:18:59,950 and it changed shape 252 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,872 Smoothly morphing it into a map of the United States 253 00:19:02,922 --> 00:19:05,550 and I thought "wow, I've never seen that before" 254 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,829 He's talked about how he wanted the spaceship to start out to have a certain configuration 255 00:19:09,879 --> 00:19:12,865 when it's hovering and moving slowly and then when it goes faster it 256 00:19:12,915 --> 00:19:15,920 elongates and changes into a more aerodynamic vehicle 257 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,576 To my knowledge "Flight of the Navigator" was the first time that 258 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,003 reflection mapping was used in a feature film 259 00:19:24,053 --> 00:19:28,268 At the back of a book called "Special Effects" was a picture of a chrome dog 260 00:19:28,318 --> 00:19:32,174 which was a computer generated form that they 261 00:19:32,224 --> 00:19:36,110 took the background and mapped it onto it, it's called 'reflectance mapping' 262 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,190 The last chapter said "This is the future", and I thought "Okay if that's the future, let's use it" 263 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,430 If the ship was flying say over the water, we needed to have every frame 264 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,457 that was reflecting off the ship slightly different 265 00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:51,614 We'd get a helicopter, we'd shoot the sky and the surroundings and form those into kind of a... 266 00:19:51,664 --> 00:19:56,430 an image sphere, that we could mathematically put around the spaceship and reflect 267 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,371 that imagery off of it so the spaceship would look like it was reflecting the environment 268 00:20:00,421 --> 00:20:05,413 I remember how excited people were, and how excited Randal was when he was 269 00:20:05,463 --> 00:20:08,702 seeing the spaceship like flying over the water and the reflection on the money 270 00:20:08,752 --> 00:20:10,281 it was like groundbreaking 271 00:20:10,331 --> 00:20:14,830 I talked with Jim Cameron later and he said that the "Flight of the Navigator" spaceship 272 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,858 was his inspiration for the chrome terminator 273 00:20:17,908 --> 00:20:20,880 When he saw that he said "ah, I can do that on Terminator" 274 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,870 It was the beginning of a whole new era in visual effects photography 275 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,049 In those days whenever you did an optical shot, a special effects shot, 276 00:20:30,099 --> 00:20:33,550 it cost about $30,000, so I wanted to come up with ways to 277 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,934 save that money and have more shots, so we hired Doug Henning to come in... 278 00:20:37,984 --> 00:20:42,830 "What can we do using stage magic to do some of these effects so that it won't be so expensive?" 279 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,620 When the boy walks up the steps into the spaceship that was an in-camera effect 280 00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:52,590 where we built those steps with steel rods going away from the camera 281 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,831 so you couldn't see them, so that Joe could walk on the steps and they would give a little bit 282 00:20:57,881 --> 00:21:01,964 he couldn't really do that with special effects, it was in camera and it looked really great 283 00:21:02,281 --> 00:21:06,322 When they land in Florida, the kids push on it too and it bounces a little bit, 284 00:21:06,372 --> 00:21:09,710 people wonder how it was done, and the other thing he helped us with was 285 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,529 the spaceship the way it floated in some scenes 286 00:21:12,579 --> 00:21:14,990 Well, on the gas station we had the full-size ship 287 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,513 We shot at Burt Reynolds ranch. We didn't meet Burt Reynolds but the ranch was cool 288 00:21:19,563 --> 00:21:22,050 It was on like a tow truck that held it 289 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:26,041 There's a crane that went right into the side of it, so it looks like it's floating but it's really 290 00:21:26,091 --> 00:21:27,632 suspended from the side 291 00:21:27,682 --> 00:21:32,750 The only thing then, that had to be erased, was the arm that was holding the ship out 292 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,086 Same thing with - the ship comes out of a hangar, well 293 00:21:36,136 --> 00:21:39,960 the ship was this size, the only difference was a perspective shift 294 00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:44,875 so that we had a real building with two doors... the ship was on a little pole 295 00:21:44,925 --> 00:21:49,659 and the pole came out - one door was real, the other door was a miniature door 296 00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:54,167 and we just had the ship coming out behind the door, and it looked like the ship was 297 00:21:54,217 --> 00:21:58,415 200 feet away, and over a bunch of people, even though it was only this big 298 00:21:58,465 --> 00:22:02,388 an old trick that old movie makers knew how to do, but today 299 00:22:02,438 --> 00:22:03,760 nobody knows how to do anymore 300 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,070 The idea of the spaceship being mirrored on the outside, I wanted to do that on the inside too and 301 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,270 everyone said "you're crazy!". I said "well, if it's difficult... 302 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,830 ...that's why no one's done it before" So we did it 303 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,545 We used this new Mylar material, where you could put lights behind it 304 00:22:19,595 --> 00:22:23,034 that would shine through, but they were all practical effects 305 00:22:23,084 --> 00:22:25,070 that you were actually shooting in-camera 306 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,058 and then when you shine light from the inside out, it was clear 307 00:22:28,108 --> 00:22:30,510 and this is pretty unusual, this had not been done before 308 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,720 I never saw the ship when I was working. When I finally saw the ship... 309 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,070 ...that was fantastic 310 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:42,510 The ship design was done by a young artist named Ed Eyth, who I ran into 311 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,311 sitting in the lobby of a VFX house with his book, he just graduated from Cal Arts, 312 00:22:48,361 --> 00:22:53,442 and I said to him "Hey, hi how are you? What's that?" and he said "I'm interviewing for a job here" 313 00:22:53,492 --> 00:22:56,836 so he showed me his stuff it was fantastic, so I hired him right away and he... 314 00:22:56,886 --> 00:23:00,808 he became the main designer of the ship 315 00:23:00,858 --> 00:23:05,057 We talked about the spaceship, Randal was very open to ideas, 316 00:23:05,107 --> 00:23:07,816 he just said he wanted to be chrome on the inside, and chrome on the outside 317 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,888 the shape could be anything, the only other constraint was, and this is 318 00:23:10,938 --> 00:23:13,853 really a common catch phrase in Hollywood, is they wanted something that had 319 00:23:13,877 --> 00:23:17,677 never been seen before, and the fact that it was going to be chrome would make it unique enough 320 00:23:17,727 --> 00:23:22,543 I did a page or two of sketches, actually five or six pages of sketches of thumbnails, 321 00:23:22,593 --> 00:23:27,767 just little studies to explore different shapes and different configurations for this 322 00:23:27,817 --> 00:23:29,583 It's my favourite part of the process you're just 323 00:23:29,607 --> 00:23:33,260 coming up with ideas, it's the "what if?" part of the process - "what if it looked like this?" and 324 00:23:33,284 --> 00:23:34,775 "what if it was shaped like this?" 325 00:23:34,825 --> 00:23:38,451 Went in, met with Randal again, showed him the drawings and he said "yeah, these..." 326 00:23:38,501 --> 00:23:41,880 There's a lot here, I just need some time to think about it" so 327 00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:45,200 I called back in met with Randal again a few days later and he said "Okay..." 328 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,532 "I showed these to Spielberg..." and I said "Wait a minute, you showed these to who?" 329 00:23:50,582 --> 00:23:55,814 And I just couldn't believe it, that the first sketches I put a marker to paper on 330 00:23:55,864 --> 00:23:59,035 went, you know, to Randal and then they went to Steven Spielberg 331 00:23:59,085 --> 00:24:02,912 Started sketching more... at some point we decided okay, with the spaceship 332 00:24:02,962 --> 00:24:06,062 maybe it's going to be, since it's chrome, why don't we just make it like a blob of mercury so it can 333 00:24:06,086 --> 00:24:10,510 change shapes, which makes it even more innovative, and more never been seen before, so 334 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,264 I had to design these variations on the shape of the ship and I decided if it was rounded 335 00:24:15,314 --> 00:24:20,535 in it's stationary form, then maybe when it takes off and goes faster it gets more aerodynamic 336 00:24:20,585 --> 00:24:24,124 and then at some point I realized if this is mercury, we should do something with the door 337 00:24:24,148 --> 00:24:28,389 Instead of just having a door open, or a door on hinges, I thought wouldn't be great if just 338 00:24:28,439 --> 00:24:32,594 part of the wall the ship just sort of melted down and became these stairs 339 00:24:32,644 --> 00:24:34,324 that he could walk up to get into the ship 340 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,470 One of my most favourite scenes inside the spaceship, 341 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,230 that I really am proud of 342 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,105 So when we're driving in the desert, and all of a sudden that... the red mustang pulls up 343 00:24:49,155 --> 00:24:53,687 and we're kind of following it, like "oh what?" and uh... and David goes 344 00:24:53,737 --> 00:24:57,031 "I wonder if that's that Twisted Sister stuff Carolyn was talking about?" 345 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,574 I actually made that line up 346 00:24:58,624 --> 00:25:03,080 Before that it was just a big long gap, we were kind of following and stuff 347 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:08,664 and I said "Hey Randal, what if I said hey is that that Twisted Sister stuff?" and he said cool great 348 00:25:08,714 --> 00:25:13,520 I was auditioning for two different roles, believe it or not. I was auditioning for Jennifer Bradley, 349 00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:16,735 and for Carolyn, but young Carolyn and 350 00:25:16,785 --> 00:25:18,604 in the script there was a... 351 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,430 there was a portion of the movie at the end that was young Carolyn when he comes back, 352 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,017 so I auditioned for both roles, and I specifically remember 353 00:25:28,067 --> 00:25:32,087 I was in a McDonald's for the young Carolyn role like, that's... that was my setting 354 00:25:32,137 --> 00:25:35,603 I think maybe three months went by after the audition 355 00:25:35,653 --> 00:25:39,418 when we got the call that I actually got the part of Jennifer Bradley, 356 00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:43,035 and at the time I didn't know that young Carolyn was not going to be in the film 357 00:25:43,085 --> 00:25:45,230 I did find that out once we got on set 358 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,197 Those are the closest memories that come to me about the film 359 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,147 was spending time with Sarah Jessica Parker who just knocked me out as a human being 360 00:25:54,197 --> 00:26:00,432 (laughs) That grin... oh it was... it was awesome 361 00:26:00,482 --> 00:26:04,941 I remember her having a hard time because they had to light up that piece of purple hair, 362 00:26:04,991 --> 00:26:08,239 ...couldn't quite get it right so that was probably the most difficult part 363 00:26:08,289 --> 00:26:11,371 Then there's that scene where she's like "You know, you're cute..." 364 00:26:11,421 --> 00:26:13,280 "...did a girl ever tell you that before?" 365 00:26:14,483 --> 00:26:18,001 "Nobody but my mom, but I don't think she counts" 366 00:26:18,051 --> 00:26:21,120 and I've just got this look on my face... 367 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,150 Oh wow, yeah... yeah... it was... uh... it was fun 368 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,950 One day, Randal came over to me and he said "I've been trying to cast a doctor in the movie" 369 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,819 So I said "Okay, well... so?" 370 00:26:33,869 --> 00:26:37,870 And he said "Well, all the doctors here, they all look like pharmacists..." 371 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,310 "...but you look like a doctor" 372 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:44,110 Howard Hesseman and I have to tell the parents what we know about the child 373 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,661 It's outside the hospital 374 00:26:45,711 --> 00:26:49,390 "This hospital is not prepared to offer, am I correct doctor?" 375 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,305 My family had always wanted me to be a doctor all my life so 376 00:26:52,355 --> 00:26:55,874 When I finally came out in the movie I told my mother, I said "Well..." 377 00:26:55,924 --> 00:26:59,882 "...you finally get to see me as a doctor" This is a... this was an important moment 378 00:26:59,932 --> 00:27:01,780 "Could I see you outside for a few minutes, please?" 379 00:27:01,804 --> 00:27:07,023 It was the hospital scenes that were the crux of my story about me and David 380 00:27:07,073 --> 00:27:11,487 I first come back and, you know, "What happened to you mom? You too dad?" 381 00:27:11,537 --> 00:27:14,211 "Where have you been all this time?" - "All this time?" 382 00:27:14,261 --> 00:27:15,719 "All this time?" 383 00:27:15,769 --> 00:27:18,960 "I just went to get Jeff at the Johnson's a few hours ago" 384 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,750 (Stutter) Get Jeff, he'll tell you 385 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,775 I remember I had to re-dub that, 386 00:27:22,825 --> 00:27:26,499 and had to do that exact little stutter... (stutter) 387 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,070 Over and over till it... till it matched up 388 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,470 get Jeff he'll tell you 389 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,506 I was trying to try to... 390 00:27:34,711 --> 00:27:38,089 ...try to just make that as truthful as possible 391 00:27:38,139 --> 00:27:40,431 and what would that... what would that be like? 392 00:27:40,481 --> 00:27:44,557 I mean, I have an older brother, and what would it be like if I walked into a hospital and saw him 393 00:27:44,607 --> 00:27:51,440 as now my young... I mean, it's a very hard thing to try to... you can't... 394 00:27:51,948 --> 00:27:59,948 You just have to accept that this is the reality that we're in, and I'm just gonna be his brother 395 00:28:01,598 --> 00:28:05,390 and play this scene, and that's really what I tried to do, and when I say that 396 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,305 I realized immediately how much of a better actor Joey was than me, 397 00:28:09,355 --> 00:28:13,870 he was so connected to that sense of being lost 398 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,670 What could have possibly happened to lead us to this moment, where I'm 399 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,286 looking at my younger, older brother. It would be so shocking 400 00:28:22,336 --> 00:28:28,466 "Buttface" "Scuzzbucket" (laughs) 401 00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:34,430 After "Flight of the Navigator" he was very much sought after, Disney wanted him 402 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:42,430 I remember being very reticent to do that because the Brat Pack in Hollywood at that 403 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,550 time, were having all kinds of problems 404 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,839 That was what was really holding me back from pushing him, 405 00:28:49,889 --> 00:28:55,241 we would have had to move to Los Angeles and our home was here 406 00:28:55,291 --> 00:28:57,840 But I'm not sorry that we didn't, 407 00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,789 'cos Joe got in trouble anyway (laughs) 408 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,844 It's uh... 409 00:29:09,379 --> 00:29:17,069 Yeah, it's all I could ask for is to just ugh, still be connected 410 00:29:17,982 --> 00:29:23,305 connection heals shame... 411 00:29:23,686 --> 00:29:29,121 right, that vulnerability, that uh... 412 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,430 ...true spark of life by being vulnerable, by 413 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,530 connecting to people, by risking 414 00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:44,508 creates these pathways for beautiful things to grow and to 415 00:29:46,769 --> 00:29:48,538 blossom 416 00:29:48,855 --> 00:29:56,855 As scary as it is to change, being stagnant is so much worse for me 417 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:07,070 My mom moved up from southern California in the 60s, and then in the early 70s she bought a farm 418 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,168 We called it Sleepy Hollow. It was 75 acres. 419 00:30:10,218 --> 00:30:13,108 Mostly what was on it was shacks, 420 00:30:13,158 --> 00:30:17,740 but one of them was a quite well-built chicken house 421 00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:23,962 I went inside, took it all apart, I built a floor in the bottom of it, I painted it all... 422 00:30:24,012 --> 00:30:29,440 and we put a loft in the top, with a bed up there, and a little tiny stove 423 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,064 and that's where Joe was born 424 00:30:32,952 --> 00:30:36,371 My full name...(laughs) 425 00:30:36,421 --> 00:30:40,741 My full name is Delirious Joe August Fisher Cramer 426 00:30:40,791 --> 00:30:46,510 My dad, Gary Steven Cramer... he wanted to name me "Yes" 427 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,815 and Gary's mother said "You can't call him 'Yes', every time somebody says 428 00:30:49,865 --> 00:30:51,787 'Yes' he'll be turning his head around" 429 00:30:51,837 --> 00:30:55,567 One of his pseudonyms for poetry and songwriting was 'Delirious Manch' 430 00:30:56,122 --> 00:30:58,510 I mean, this is all very complicated 431 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,470 My mom said "Well how about Delirious?" then they said "Well, isn't that crazy or delusional?" 432 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,245 I looked up the word 'delirious' in the dictionary, 433 00:31:07,295 --> 00:31:11,421 it said "wild with excitement or joy" 434 00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:17,906 So I decided to spell Delirious "d-e-I-e-r-i-y-e-s" 435 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,110 So we got the 'yes' in there 436 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,686 Gary's grandfather, during the time that I was pregnant, he said 437 00:31:25,736 --> 00:31:30,541 "His name's going to be Joe", he said it like that, "His name's going to be Joe..." 438 00:31:30,591 --> 00:31:35,439 "...it's going to be a boy and his name is Joe" Then, he was going to be born in August, 439 00:31:35,489 --> 00:31:38,572 so now it's Delirious Joe August 440 00:31:38,622 --> 00:31:43,200 Fisher, 'cos that's my name and we weren't married, and Cramer 441 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:50,131 So, we got five names out of it... it's very hippy ...very hippy (laughs) 442 00:31:50,181 --> 00:31:58,181 It was 1972 and it was the beginning of when women decided to have kids on their own. 443 00:31:58,673 --> 00:32:01,150 I just decided I wanted to have a kid 444 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,204 I asked one guy and he said "No, I've already got one..." 445 00:32:06,254 --> 00:32:10,270 So he told his friend, which was Gary 446 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,436 and Gary said "Yeah, I'll do it!" 447 00:32:12,486 --> 00:32:16,101 He really wasn't involved in at all 448 00:32:16,151 --> 00:32:18,990 I never understood why he didn't want to be around 449 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,355 He was about 20 when he had me... 21. My mom was 31 450 00:32:23,405 --> 00:32:28,583 I remember him coming for some birthdays, up until the age of ten maybe? 451 00:32:28,633 --> 00:32:31,373 And then he pretty much disappeared 452 00:32:31,423 --> 00:32:35,073 I started seeing a psychiatrist when I was younger, 453 00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:37,987 but I remember feeling 454 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:40,497 dark 455 00:32:41,195 --> 00:32:46,247 Something I've learned, is that kids who grow up without a parent, 456 00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:52,389 but especially without a father figure, tend to steal at young ages 457 00:32:52,439 --> 00:32:57,182 He stole a bunch of smurfs at the department store at the Bay 458 00:32:57,232 --> 00:33:01,000 I remember being in the aisle, and filling my pockets... well I went home 459 00:33:01,050 --> 00:33:05,788 and I filled my stocking up, and I thought "Yeah, Santa will come tomorrow..." 460 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,792 "...and my mom will never know" so, that's how young I was 461 00:33:09,842 --> 00:33:13,531 I talked to him and he knew it was wrong 462 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,936 He stole things when he was little. I never knew what to do about that 463 00:33:18,986 --> 00:33:24,996 - When we spoke to Joe he had told us that even by Navigator, he had started stealing... 464 00:33:25,046 --> 00:33:26,764 - Did you ever have any inclination? 465 00:33:26,814 --> 00:33:30,190 Wow, I had no idea 466 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,830 We were just worried about doing the scenes, and making sure that his Canadian-isms... 467 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,503 Every once in a while there was an "out" and a "house", and someone had to say "cut"... 468 00:33:39,553 --> 00:33:47,553 So no, I'm sorry, that didn't occur to me... did he? Was he doing that at that time? Wow 469 00:33:48,356 --> 00:33:54,480 Honestly, I truly believe that, that all stemmed from my dad not being around 470 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,022 Years later, I'd reached out to him for some help 471 00:33:59,072 --> 00:34:02,240 Not financially, I just wanted somebody to talk to 472 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,375 I just wanted some sort of support 473 00:34:05,425 --> 00:34:07,992 I wanted a dad 474 00:34:08,309 --> 00:34:13,230 I don't remember exactly what I said, what he said to me... 475 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,309 You think you got problems, kid? 476 00:34:16,817 --> 00:34:19,670 I've got 20 years of problems on you 477 00:34:20,051 --> 00:34:23,105 Don't phone me with your problems 478 00:34:23,155 --> 00:34:24,644 You want to know what to do? 479 00:34:24,694 --> 00:34:29,008 Why don't you do us all a favor, and go jump off a bridge? 480 00:34:29,058 --> 00:34:32,110 Why don't you just go slit your throat and wrists? 481 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,548 Do us all a favor and kill yourself 482 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,550 Because I'd always been open and honest with him, and he'd always been 483 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:51,230 an open and honest little kid, I just assumed that he would be comfortable talking to me 484 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,490 about anything 485 00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:58,563 I was probably in denial about a lot of things that he was doing 486 00:34:58,613 --> 00:35:02,756 I didn't know how early he had started drugs until much later 487 00:35:02,806 --> 00:35:06,582 We'd watched ninja movies and sit around and smoke weed when we were little, and 488 00:35:06,632 --> 00:35:10,589 I remember us looking for quarters to go play video games and 489 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:14,141 came across this bag of... I thought it was bulk soap 490 00:35:14,191 --> 00:35:16,320 so I took some of the soap 491 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,874 and that was kind of my first introduction to... to coke 492 00:35:21,924 --> 00:35:24,764 Like yeah, what - 14, 15? 493 00:35:25,081 --> 00:35:27,437 I was really addicted 494 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,691 Probably, I think, right before Navigator we moved up here 495 00:35:31,741 --> 00:35:36,104 It was like a real transitional house where we had these wonderful memories and 496 00:35:36,154 --> 00:35:39,629 this wonderful upbringing and then things changed. I remember 497 00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:43,488 walking the streets in the rain and drinking 498 00:35:43,538 --> 00:35:47,364 Then I started getting in trouble at school and I started doing drugs and staying out late, and 499 00:35:47,414 --> 00:35:52,624 I'd sneak out the back window and go off in the middle of the night, and... 500 00:35:52,674 --> 00:35:54,042 yeah... 501 00:35:54,092 --> 00:36:00,548 Lord Byng was my high school after I finished Navigator, I didn't really fit in, I was 502 00:36:00,598 --> 00:36:05,560 surprisingly teased for being a conceited movie star, or like the older guys 503 00:36:05,610 --> 00:36:10,221 would chase me around and throw me in trash cans and lock me in lockers 504 00:36:10,271 --> 00:36:15,360 You know, I had some friends but to fit in I started smoking a lot of dope, I started drinking a lot... 505 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,897 I started cutting myself a lot 506 00:36:18,947 --> 00:36:22,106 and burning myself, so that I could feel... 507 00:36:22,156 --> 00:36:23,677 - Watch your step 508 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,714 ...something besides what I was feeling inside, which was just 509 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,657 black 510 00:36:31,707 --> 00:36:33,968 There's one scar here where I used to put out 511 00:36:34,018 --> 00:36:36,569 cigarettes all the time, there's two of them there 512 00:36:36,619 --> 00:36:44,619 Um, when I was about 29 or 30, there's a big long scar there which I... 513 00:36:45,746 --> 00:36:48,720 ...I cut myself with a scalpel and, and um... 514 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,992 Yeah, I almost, I mean... I yeah, so... 515 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,241 Um, again I'm here obviously but... 516 00:36:59,291 --> 00:37:02,339 That's a real scar and he turned it into a 517 00:37:02,389 --> 00:37:06,658 right, a scar on the... on this heart which I thought was really well placed 518 00:37:06,708 --> 00:37:10,670 The way that the scar comes through the bone of the... of the wing 519 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,932 Yeah, there's some more scars in there so... 520 00:37:12,982 --> 00:37:18,190 As long as I can remember, I lied and I stole, and that turned into my identity 521 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:23,789 From 15 to 18, I was stealing cars. Lots of cars. 522 00:37:24,233 --> 00:37:27,360 I stole money from my mom all the time 523 00:37:27,614 --> 00:37:33,433 The most stressful things that are coming to my mind about Joe's teenage years 524 00:37:33,483 --> 00:37:38,458 are remembrances of not knowing where he was 525 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,510 I suppose he was out of control 526 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,341 I remember Spring Break, and I didn't sleep for like 13 days 527 00:37:46,391 --> 00:37:50,818 I was doing about seven grams of coke a day 528 00:37:50,868 --> 00:37:55,021 and acid, and I actually got really heavy into GHB 529 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,229 As far as funding my habit, I had access to my movie money 530 00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,985 He had money because he made the money 531 00:38:04,035 --> 00:38:07,602 I know child stars whose parents pushed them and 532 00:38:07,652 --> 00:38:10,221 took all their money and they didn't have anything 533 00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,091 So, when he asked me for the money... 534 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,101 ...he shouldn't have had it, I realize that now 535 00:38:19,151 --> 00:38:23,564 There was a 10-year hiatus when he was sober, 536 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,310 except for drinking, and that was really good 537 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,461 Virtually my problems, that... that serious 538 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:37,947 depression and self-hatred and loathing, seemed to go away 539 00:38:38,645 --> 00:38:42,969 I went to Maple Ridge Treatment Center. I had a slip while I was there. 540 00:38:43,019 --> 00:38:48,320 I went back in 2008, and then I went back in 2010 541 00:38:48,574 --> 00:38:51,172 and that's when I had the most success 542 00:38:51,426 --> 00:38:55,493 I got out of there and I had got my own apartment 543 00:38:55,543 --> 00:38:57,901 I got a couple of jobs, I was working 544 00:38:57,951 --> 00:39:02,474 and I think it was like the night of my Step 12, I'd finished my first set of steps, 545 00:39:02,524 --> 00:39:07,416 and I met a girl on the way home and that was a huge nightmare 546 00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:10,479 That's when I first got introduced to heroin 547 00:39:14,857 --> 00:39:19,728 We're hanging out in Gastown, downtown Vancouver and it's a beautiful old part of the city 548 00:39:19,982 --> 00:39:24,590 It's grown a lot since I've been here, you know, the old brick roads and stuff like that and... 549 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,313 - "Is this the trendy bit of town now?" 550 00:39:26,828 --> 00:39:30,000 It's kind of... kind of like touristy trendy, right? 551 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,658 Oh, I got just, yeah, fall down drunk in that place once 552 00:39:35,708 --> 00:39:37,068 The Lamplighter 553 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,426 Do I have anything in my teeth? - "No" 554 00:39:40,743 --> 00:39:44,990 - "Over to our tour guide, Joe. Where are we, Joe?" (laughs) 555 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,877 All right, so we're downtown Gastown still, and we're on Cambie and Water and 556 00:39:49,927 --> 00:39:55,790 Interesting fact is this is where I did some of my first extra work on "The NeverEnding Story", 557 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,510 and I ran across this street back here 558 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,136 so in the film, you can see me and another kid are running across the street 559 00:40:02,186 --> 00:40:03,411 - "Hey, it's the weirdo" 560 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,270 I think this used to be a place called Sonar, where I knew all the bartenders and managers 561 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,446 and I'd always be on the list, and all the good, like... 562 00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:15,025 and actually I think it used to be the Town Pump where like, um... 563 00:40:15,406 --> 00:40:19,969 I think maybe even like, well, my dad used to play a lot, but Pearl Jam played when they were still 564 00:40:20,019 --> 00:40:22,238 when they called themselves Mookie Blaylock 565 00:40:23,063 --> 00:40:26,745 Here's the infamous alley where I got to do my first stunt double work 566 00:40:26,795 --> 00:40:30,000 and so "The NeverEnding Story" and, and uh... 567 00:40:30,508 --> 00:40:33,886 and one of the kids couldn't make it so we... 568 00:40:33,936 --> 00:40:36,750 they asked me if I could, you know, stand in for him and 569 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,129 the camera was up on a big crane, and chased us down the alley, and I had to 570 00:40:41,179 --> 00:40:44,624 dive into the big pile of garbage next to the dumpster where 571 00:40:44,674 --> 00:40:47,470 Falkor is chasing us down, right, these bullies... 572 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,792 Ah... Falkor... oh my God... (laughs) 573 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,854 He'd been through several different rehabs, several different times 574 00:40:59,904 --> 00:41:05,589 and one of the times that he came out and was feeling so good, 575 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:11,581 got a hold of some girl who laced his cigarettes, and that's what got him onto heroin 576 00:41:11,631 --> 00:41:14,950 He didn't like those kinds of drugs at all 577 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,564 I remember him standing saying "Ugh... I hate this drug..." 578 00:41:19,614 --> 00:41:26,361 You know, just hated it - because he didn't like being out of control 579 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,166 So every morning I've got to go to the pharmacy for my methadone 580 00:41:31,216 --> 00:41:33,390 It's to help you get off heroin 581 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,801 It is actually an opiate 582 00:41:35,851 --> 00:41:39,201 Some people they say "Well, if you're on methadone that you're not really clean..." 583 00:41:39,251 --> 00:41:45,726 Whereas I consider it to be clean because I'm using a prescription to the right way, and stuff like that 584 00:41:45,776 --> 00:41:48,387 The worst part is the fear of getting sick. 585 00:41:48,437 --> 00:41:54,510 It's something that I always hated because I felt so powerless over it. It affects your whole body... 586 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,680 You won't die, but you feel like you're going to. 587 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,970 Once again, he had stolen some money from my wallet 588 00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:06,560 so when he came home, I confronted him with that 589 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:15,120 and I said, you know, "You're gonna have to leave, I can't live with you like this" 590 00:42:18,883 --> 00:42:22,381 and he was just so amazing 591 00:42:25,586 --> 00:42:27,540 He said... 592 00:42:30,649 --> 00:42:35,636 "I know you're not kicking me out mom, because you don't love me..." 593 00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:40,334 "I know you're not kicking me out because you don't love me..." 594 00:42:40,715 --> 00:42:44,640 And he just left 595 00:42:46,083 --> 00:42:49,035 but I knew I had to kick him out 596 00:42:52,386 --> 00:42:55,872 Even though we loved each other... 597 00:42:56,951 --> 00:42:59,945 ...I didn't kick him out with hate 598 00:43:01,123 --> 00:43:04,047 I never... I never hated him 599 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,274 I don't remember where he went then 600 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,545 There's only so much a mom can do 601 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,432 So this is one place where I spent a lot of time where I was living in my car 602 00:43:22,482 --> 00:43:25,861 The morning would come, and those realizations would come in, and like 603 00:43:25,911 --> 00:43:29,680 "What the hell am I doing?" and "Why am I here?" and "This can't be my life" 604 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,243 I got into a bunch of crap and... and screwed up a bunch of my teeth 605 00:43:35,624 --> 00:43:40,732 Some of it I got in some really violent situations, some got broken, some I just didn't take care of 606 00:43:40,782 --> 00:43:45,337 So for a long time I didn't have any like, any teeth whatsoever 607 00:43:45,387 --> 00:43:50,435 So I wouldn't get recognised for the movie for sure, not... not in that state 608 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,630 I couldn't even imagine being fully on the street with no shelter 609 00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,448 Vancouver was really harsh 'cos I didn't have a car, literally packing a huge bag around 610 00:44:02,466 --> 00:44:10,466 (singing) "Under these bridges religions are built, but no one pays the tithe..." 611 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,680 "...stretching out the time only to find..." 612 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,661 "...there ain't much point in being alive..." 613 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,731 So we're in downtown Vancouver and I spent some long nights down here 614 00:44:30,781 --> 00:44:33,227 There were some pretty dark times definitely 615 00:44:33,277 --> 00:44:37,982 But um, there's a with a safe injection site behind me here where 616 00:44:38,032 --> 00:44:41,737 It's somewhere where you can go to, you know, to do your drugs and stuff where 617 00:44:41,787 --> 00:44:46,408 you're not on the street, you're not out there in the elements... not contract diseases... 618 00:44:46,458 --> 00:44:50,723 Make sure that if something happens when you're doing your drugs, that you don't O.D 619 00:44:51,675 --> 00:44:55,367 When you're in it, you feel like there's no other way to live 620 00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,309 It goes back to wanting to be connected, even if it's in this, you know, really negative um... 621 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,250 self... self-defeating space, right? 622 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:11,566 'Cos we're all down here just like, you know, hurting ourselves and feeling horrible and stuff 623 00:45:11,616 --> 00:45:16,370 but you still want that connection, right? Even if it's through drug use, you're part of a little community 624 00:45:17,449 --> 00:45:21,070 The thing about whether there's people down here trying to help people, 625 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,590 you can't really help anyone unless they... unless they want to 626 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,790 It's a huge process getting into rehabs, 627 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,467 there's waiting lists, you can't just walk in somewhere and do it 628 00:45:31,517 --> 00:45:33,185 Ah, it's heartbreaking 629 00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:42,010 (singing) "Walking that road, the only bed that I laid, was still warm with the life that I betrayed..." 630 00:45:46,188 --> 00:45:50,952 "...I've made mistakes and that I'll admit..." 631 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,223 "...but I've staked my life to pay for it..." 632 00:45:57,667 --> 00:46:01,164 My girlfriend at the time and I, we didn't have a car 633 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,830 We slept under the Sky Train, and made us a little camp with like, cardboard boxes and a 634 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,159 little shopping cart turned over and she was always really sick in the morning 635 00:46:11,209 --> 00:46:16,467 We thought she was dope sick. I'd be running out hustling up heroin... 636 00:46:16,517 --> 00:46:18,000 ...and it turned out she was pregnant 637 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,417 When we figured that out, we got into a recovery house and started to try and clean up 638 00:46:28,467 --> 00:46:33,321 When Celecta was born she tested positive for coke and methadone 639 00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:41,494 I don't believe that she went through any of the screaming and pain that a lot of babies do 640 00:46:41,544 --> 00:46:43,782 Then we had to figure out what to do 641 00:46:44,099 --> 00:46:49,335 There's no point in me stringing Celecta along, while I'm going in and out of treatment 642 00:46:49,385 --> 00:46:54,660 and I wanted to get my life together, so that I could be part of her life then 643 00:46:55,041 --> 00:46:59,120 (singing) "Whoa to give someone a chance..." 644 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,174 We got the most wonderful foster mother 645 00:47:04,428 --> 00:47:07,534 She's a lucky little girl 646 00:47:08,359 --> 00:47:11,559 She's a really lucky little girl 647 00:47:13,189 --> 00:47:18,638 (singing) "Don't we all deserve love?" 648 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,590 Hi! Okay, so this is the window to my little room at the VITC 649 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:37,432 This is where I've been living for six months, and I'll be here for about another six months 650 00:47:37,482 --> 00:47:41,685 Little nice cozy space, but I brought a nice rug from home 651 00:47:41,735 --> 00:47:47,434 I've got pictures of my daughter, and one of my favorite pictures too 652 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,781 is this one, I just love it - it's my mom and Celecta 653 00:47:51,831 --> 00:47:54,080 and I've got my little happy cat, 654 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,164 it just ugh, was sent from my friend Anna, she's one of my biggest fans 655 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,590 There's certain things that you're not allowed to have when you're in jail, like crayon, glitter... 656 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:13,783 lip gloss, no nail polish because you can transfer contraband into into the prison through... 657 00:48:13,833 --> 00:48:18,791 ...through, I guess through lip gloss, and crayons and things like that 658 00:48:18,841 --> 00:48:23,481 I was inside 18 months, and then coming to a small room, it's really taught me to 659 00:48:23,531 --> 00:48:28,125 appreciate just necessities, not... not what I want to have to make me feel better but that I... 660 00:48:28,175 --> 00:48:30,830 ...I have everything that I need from the inside 661 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,832 I actually started this at Guthrie, and that's taking a dry erase marker and writing on the mirror, 662 00:48:36,882 --> 00:48:42,140 so I write things like 'I am health', 'I am joy", 'I am love' and 663 00:48:42,190 --> 00:48:44,173 sometimes I like draw... funny, like a 664 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,777 a happy face or with a mustache and 665 00:48:47,827 --> 00:48:52,273 and then I'd like, look at it and "ho ho!" and then I'd laugh at myself right, stuff like that, you know 666 00:48:52,323 --> 00:48:56,234 "I love you Joe, I love you, I love you, I love you" 667 00:48:56,551 --> 00:49:01,063 and it feels weird at first, it really does feel a little weird at first, but... 668 00:49:01,317 --> 00:49:07,793 ...although...not but...although the more we say it, the better it feels and 669 00:49:08,047 --> 00:49:13,622 I think everybody deserves to feel love from themselves inside, so, yeah... 670 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,767 I think he was lonely sometimes 671 00:49:17,817 --> 00:49:24,159 I knew that if I went with him to the set, I would be 672 00:49:24,209 --> 00:49:30,069 on him all the time "do this, do this, do this..." and I didn't want to interfere in that at all 673 00:49:30,323 --> 00:49:34,966 I know that when they went to Norway, they took a friend 674 00:49:35,016 --> 00:49:38,317 Joe just called, and then it was like "Yeah, I want you to come to Norway..." 675 00:49:38,367 --> 00:49:40,430 "Oh hang on a sec, Dad, can I go to Norway?" 676 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,122 I said "Norway? Why, I mean, are you kidding?" 677 00:49:43,172 --> 00:49:47,369 One of the producers was Producer Sales Organization, Mark Damon's company, and 678 00:49:47,419 --> 00:49:50,888 they had blocked funds in Norway, they had to spend the money in Norway, that was 679 00:49:50,938 --> 00:49:52,291 the only way they could get it out 680 00:49:52,315 --> 00:49:55,376 They said "Well, what could you shoot of this movie in Norway?" 681 00:49:55,426 --> 00:49:58,990 We thought about it, and then said "Well, we could do all the interiors of the spaceship" 682 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,822 We went directly from Miami to Oslo, and it was in February 683 00:50:03,872 --> 00:50:09,230 Have you ever tried to buy a parka in Fort Lauderdale, Florida? 684 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,876 Well, we all arrived at the airport in Norway, literally in T-shirts and shorts, 685 00:50:13,926 --> 00:50:18,163 and the people in the airport looked at us like we were all crazy, you know, it's 30 below 686 00:50:18,213 --> 00:50:20,430 While we were there, we were filming in a warehouse 687 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,774 and then we'd take a bus for an hour each day in the winter 688 00:50:23,824 --> 00:50:26,619 We would go in in the morning at say, seven o'clock in the morning, 689 00:50:26,669 --> 00:50:28,661 we'd come out at six o'clock in the evening, 690 00:50:28,711 --> 00:50:32,270 we never saw daylight during the week at all. 691 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,113 When we shot the scenes where Joey was flying the ship, and we were shooting from behind 692 00:50:36,163 --> 00:50:39,150 we used a Norwegian boy who didn't speak English. 693 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,633 I had to time his movements to the back projection, so that he would move to the right when 694 00:50:44,683 --> 00:50:49,222 the ship went to the right, and to the left, so it went right, and then they'd translate it into Norwegian, 695 00:50:49,272 --> 00:50:54,472 and by the time they did, he was left, and so that was very, very complicated trying to work out 696 00:50:54,725 --> 00:50:56,590 telling the kid which way to move 697 00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,814 The set was amazing, I remember wanting to take it home with me 698 00:51:00,864 --> 00:51:03,805 and like, build it in a garage or something 'cos 699 00:51:03,855 --> 00:51:07,026 it was basically, the whole inside of the ship was all real 700 00:51:07,076 --> 00:51:11,310 In the floor, the chair came up - just popped up out of the ground, and 701 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,350 Max hanging down was on a trolley, 702 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,150 and even in his eye - it lit up 703 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:22,830 Then the wall, it was right there - they pulled the front off and there was the setup of all the 704 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,707 little creatures all puppeted from behind - "What are these?" 705 00:51:27,024 --> 00:51:29,070 The uh, creatures which were just so much fun 706 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,873 I think I did several dozen creatures that Randal picked out the ones he liked 707 00:51:33,923 --> 00:51:35,873 It was just a wonderful first film to work on 708 00:51:35,923 --> 00:51:42,000 I was the head puppeteer, I was the principal manipulator of Max 709 00:51:42,050 --> 00:51:49,888 I was the assistant puppeteer on Max, and the puppeteer for this guy - the Puckmarin 710 00:51:49,938 --> 00:51:55,720 So, I did his voice and I also helped puppeteer the creatures in the lab on the spaceship 711 00:51:56,545 --> 00:52:00,430 Funny story, the really weird little slimy creature... 712 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,310 That was one of my favorite things to work, I did that... 713 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,030 He's very proud of it - Yes, I'm very proud of it 714 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:12,430 We covered with Purell hair lotion, and KY... other lotion 715 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,954 I don't know if I should say this but, originally it was going to be the sex worm 716 00:52:16,004 --> 00:52:22,196 It was supposed to be a sexual thing but um, they changed it to a cold 717 00:52:22,246 --> 00:52:24,270 to get it through the Disney group 718 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,751 - "He's got a cold..." - "Ew, gross" 719 00:52:27,801 --> 00:52:30,830 We had just come off another film called "Short Circuit" 720 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,976 He did the voice for the robot "Short Circuit" - "I think the chauffeur did it" 721 00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:37,507 and did the mouth, I did the eyes, 722 00:52:37,557 --> 00:52:42,670 so we had really gotten a lot of training how to be a robot 723 00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:48,385 It was a small set, and we had four weeks to really get into this 724 00:52:48,435 --> 00:52:53,390 Tim had more to worry about with the Puckmarin, which was a brand new character 725 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,550 The Puckmarin, wow, yeah I mean he was incredible 726 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:04,088 This by the way is not an actual Puckmarin puppet - a fan made this for Joey 727 00:53:04,138 --> 00:53:10,118 It was so neat, it was like these pulleys to move his eyes and his eyebrows, and his mouth 728 00:53:10,168 --> 00:53:14,172 He was small, you couldn't understand him and he was kind of cute, so 729 00:53:14,222 --> 00:53:18,303 I just kind of... tried to find an alien sounding kind of... 730 00:53:18,353 --> 00:53:23,150 ...thing and then...kind of gibberish him into a into a cute character that was 731 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:31,200 (puckmarin sounds) 732 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,470 Remember when I'm looking at the cool creatures and stuff and, 733 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:40,251 and then I turn and that one guy grabs my hat, and he bites it off and he's like 734 00:53:40,301 --> 00:53:43,040 (chomping sounds) 735 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,381 And then the thing goes (burps) and it does that huge long burp? 736 00:53:47,431 --> 00:53:49,403 Well, that was me 737 00:53:49,453 --> 00:53:50,702 (burp sound) 738 00:53:50,752 --> 00:53:56,601 I think that they maybe toned it down a little bit, 'cos I had a pretty high pitched voice 739 00:53:57,236 --> 00:54:03,150 But uh, but still I did a really good nasty long burp, and then they... they used it 740 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,222 At that point, they didn't have a lot of technology to remove strings 741 00:54:08,272 --> 00:54:11,500 There's a spindly kind of character that was marionetted, 742 00:54:11,550 --> 00:54:15,668 we used monofilament to make him move, he was kind of like a thing and he moved around like this, 743 00:54:15,718 --> 00:54:21,440 and they used some mist or smoke to kind of help with making the strings disappear 744 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,590 Max was a challenge because he was the star of the show 745 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,710 He really was this alien character that, even though it was also chrome, and also 746 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,870 harmonized visually with the interior of the ship, he had to be able to emote and perform 747 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:39,950 so that's when the suggestion for making the interior of the glass orb on his face, 748 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,072 animate and get video projections in there, and have some things happening 749 00:54:43,122 --> 00:54:47,150 that make it a little bit more interesting than just a static puppeted character 750 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,208 The scene where Joey and Max come face to face 751 00:54:51,258 --> 00:54:54,990 was done with the character operated from above 752 00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:00,266 That scene had to be choreographed a little more carefully than the others 753 00:55:00,316 --> 00:55:02,350 with the camera at the very end 754 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,839 There were two grips that helped to move Max around the spaceship 755 00:55:06,889 --> 00:55:13,113 We were about eight feet above where Joey was sitting on an elevated stage, 756 00:55:13,163 --> 00:55:16,177 so we were about 14, 15 feet off the ground 757 00:55:16,227 --> 00:55:21,870 There was a platform that spanned the whole set, and it was on dollies and a track 758 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,235 so you had grips moving the front to back, and a grip moving side to side 759 00:55:26,285 --> 00:55:28,270 and they had to memorize their marks 760 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,150 - "You are, the Navigator!" 761 00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,636 "You are the Navigator!" and the first time we did that scene, 762 00:55:36,686 --> 00:55:40,574 they didn't have quite control of the uh, trolley, 763 00:55:40,828 --> 00:55:43,102 and it started coming, and coming, and coming, 764 00:55:43,152 --> 00:55:46,987 and I was like "oh!" - I slid down in my seat and it went 'whip!' right over my 765 00:55:47,037 --> 00:55:48,430 head, we were like "woah!" so... 766 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,173 I think there was also a time we made a foam mock-up of Max 767 00:55:52,223 --> 00:55:57,645 We had a duplicate hand puppet, so I would be crouched down around Joey's feet 768 00:55:57,695 --> 00:56:01,004 and trying to stay out of the way, and 769 00:56:01,054 --> 00:56:04,739 we would do the close-ups of Max and Joey with this small hand puppet 770 00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:08,903 I was assisting him on Max, and I think I was helping with the... 771 00:56:08,953 --> 00:56:12,916 there was a sliding... finding what looked like what emotion 772 00:56:13,214 --> 00:56:16,939 'cos he was... he just basically had these things that went like this... and like this... 773 00:56:16,989 --> 00:56:21,390 that's your sort of limited toolbox for trying to... - Give him character 774 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,330 - "Okay turkey, you fly it" 775 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:29,537 And after the mind-meld transfer he got very loosey-goosey with his 776 00:56:29,587 --> 00:56:31,470 and into 'Pee-wee Herman' esque 777 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,190 - "That's it?" - "That's it, Davey!" 778 00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:38,498 When we filmed, I did the voice - it's called a 'scratch track' 779 00:56:38,548 --> 00:56:43,350 When we tried to get the voice of the Navigator, we tried all kinds of stuff including 780 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,190 those machines that people use who have lost their voices 781 00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:49,230 We didn't really know what the sound of that voice was going to be 782 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,630 We tried speeding things up... slowing them down... 783 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:57,070 but we knew we wanted something kid-like and fun, and something that could change 784 00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:02,190 I saw "Pee-wee's Playhouse" and I thought "wow, maybe Paul Reubens would be good for this?" 785 00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,230 - "...but when you're finished I'm sure it'll be beautiful... ha ha" 786 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,138 In the earlier portions of their relationship, I was noting last night, 787 00:57:10,455 --> 00:57:13,842 he's working very nicely to create a different voice 788 00:57:13,892 --> 00:57:15,790 So the voice starts one way... 789 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,390 - "Protective hover is advised" 790 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,895 ...and then it gradually turns into Paul Reuben's voice as 791 00:57:21,945 --> 00:57:24,772 this ship is beginning to get into the kid's head 792 00:57:24,822 --> 00:57:29,070 When he starts to get loose, you know who it is! 793 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,750 - (laughing) 794 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,790 I'd be happy to shake hands with Paul Reubens no matter what shape he materialized in 795 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:43,012 Compliance! 796 00:57:43,062 --> 00:57:47,451 Randal had asked me "Hey, do you think that you would want to maybe... 797 00:57:48,306 --> 00:57:50,818 ...be the voice of the Navigator?" 798 00:57:50,868 --> 00:57:53,165 And I don't know why that occurred to him, maybe he had decided 799 00:57:53,189 --> 00:57:55,878 maybe the voice should be someone that he knew, maybe? 800 00:57:56,766 --> 00:58:02,029 And I was so excited, and we went in and we did a bunch of voice over recordings and then he 801 00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:05,249 ended up going with Paul, so that was disappointing to me 802 00:58:05,299 --> 00:58:09,741 but I knew that that was going to happen... he asked... what was the song that they sing in the...? 803 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,452 The Beach Boys song... I was singing that in this studio and I was like 804 00:58:15,502 --> 00:58:17,475 "Wow, I'm really singing this badly" 805 00:58:17,525 --> 00:58:19,630 and I was like "maybe that's what sunk me" 806 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,720 - "How important was music to the film?" 807 00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:23,470 Oh, I think music was greatly important 808 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,830 I think Alan Silvestri did... he did a fantastic job 809 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,830 It was a short schedule, we didn't have time or budget to do a big orchestra 810 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,002 and Alan was willing to do it all with synthesizers, and so we thought 811 00:58:35,052 --> 00:58:40,110 "Since it's a space movie, why not use synthesizer?" So I think it was all synth 812 00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,054 He's done all the Marvel movies now, right? - He has 813 00:58:43,104 --> 00:58:44,110 and he has an orchestra 814 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,470 One of my favorite scenes is when he's flying around listening to The Beach Boys 815 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,870 We had to have that song, and we knew that early on 816 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,527 We were afraid we wouldn't be able to afford it, Disney wasn't sure they wanted to pay for it 817 00:58:54,577 --> 00:58:58,720 Randal and I kept leaning on them and they finally... they gave us the right to that 818 00:58:58,974 --> 00:59:02,229 - (singing) "I'm getting bugged driving up and down the same old strip..." 819 00:59:02,279 --> 00:59:05,390 "...I gotta find a new place where they kids are hip..." 820 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,870 When we were filming it, they were like "Joe, have you practiced your singing uh, scene?" 821 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,776 And he's like "yeah, yeah I've been practicing" and I didn't know he'd been 822 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,822 practicing, or I didn't know anything about it but my ears perked up, I was like 823 00:59:15,846 --> 00:59:18,510 "Oooh, Joe's gonna sing, so this will be cool!" 824 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,901 It was mostly just lip-syncing and singing along 825 00:59:20,951 --> 00:59:25,632 He was kind of dancing and pushing the... all the things in the ship around... 826 00:59:25,682 --> 00:59:27,496 I don't know if that even made it into the film 827 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:35,520 - (singing) "I Get Around..." 828 00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,310 I was always happy when he was in jail, because I knew he'd get fed and 829 00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,165 he was off the street 830 00:59:59,677 --> 01:00:07,677 Up until this last time, every time I went to jail yeah... I pretty much knew I'd be back 831 01:00:10,174 --> 01:00:13,512 They don't make it easy to come out and succeed 832 01:00:14,020 --> 01:00:16,455 So this was basically the 833 01:00:16,505 --> 01:00:22,656 third time that I'd really done a significant amount of time - I got six months one time, 834 01:00:22,706 --> 01:00:27,345 I got six months another time, and then I did this two years less a day, but 835 01:00:27,395 --> 01:00:33,175 in between there, there were little bits where maybe I went away for a week, or a few days, or 836 01:00:33,225 --> 01:00:35,280 kind of in and out numerous times 837 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,990 So the Guthrie Therapeutic Community is based inside NCC: Nanaimo Corrections Center, it's 838 01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,634 actually fenced off from the main population 839 01:00:46,684 --> 01:00:51,430 I think as a center we believe that everybody matters, everybody should have a chance 840 01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,425 that hoping and believing in someone can be the very thing that they need 841 01:00:56,475 --> 01:01:01,720 to see that change is possible for them, and giving them every opportunity to make good decisions 842 01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:04,133 is part of what we do here 843 01:01:05,212 --> 01:01:09,550 This main room that we're in is where we'd have our morning meetings, and evening meetings 844 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,030 The morning meeting would be like our morning philosophy, and then we have 845 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:18,409 a board where we go through news, weather and sports - just kind of getting used to chit chat 846 01:01:18,459 --> 01:01:24,474 Guthrie is based in stages, like, so you have orientation phase then... 847 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,380 What's it called? What's the middle phase called? Primary, right (laughs) 848 01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:36,158 We've got orientation phase, then primary phase, and then re-entry phase, so it's going through 849 01:01:36,208 --> 01:01:40,364 um, you know getting used to being here and being in a community, and how this program works 850 01:01:40,414 --> 01:01:44,750 getting used to thinking different ways than just being in a jail mentality, 851 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,710 and then the primary phase where you're really getting into the classes about guilt and shame, and 852 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:55,182 forgiveness, and then the re-entry phase which is getting yourself ready to be back in the community 853 01:01:55,232 --> 01:01:58,674 Yeah, we'll get the gist of what a room was like... 854 01:01:58,724 --> 01:02:02,670 Often you're dealt with on a last name basis, or by your number 855 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,744 Here at Guthrie it's so cool because we're on a first name basis with each other, with 856 01:02:06,794 --> 01:02:10,990 the counselors - actually connected with the people that you're incarcerated with 857 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,369 It's like there's still humanity there that can be shared right, on both... both ends 858 01:02:17,321 --> 01:02:21,942 I don't know if it's like, comfortable coming back but it gets to be a habit and it 859 01:02:21,992 --> 01:02:23,489 gets to be familiar 860 01:02:23,539 --> 01:02:27,150 I was here with guys who had been in and out of jail for most of their lives 861 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:33,174 It's scary, change is scary, I mean for anyone whether it's, right, a stock broker or 862 01:02:33,224 --> 01:02:38,479 you know, a mom or you know, a criminal or addict - it doesn't really matter 863 01:02:38,529 --> 01:02:43,152 change is hard and scary, for moving from job to job, or a home or whatever, so 864 01:02:43,202 --> 01:02:46,171 when you get familiar and comfortable it's easy to get 865 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,871 used to it, and feel like that's the only way to live 866 01:02:49,921 --> 01:02:52,110 and feel like there's no other way out 867 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,406 That snowballing in that negative way where it's 868 01:02:55,456 --> 01:02:59,438 you know, it's just from one crime to the other, or one fix to the other, or one 869 01:02:59,488 --> 01:03:01,790 you know, mistake or... yeah 870 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:09,840 (piano playing) 871 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,160 Ah, I need to practice more! 872 01:03:23,210 --> 01:03:27,757 So that was my house right there - my window with the gray, right... 873 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:33,868 This is Guthrie - it's pretty cool, pretty cool! Yeah 874 01:03:33,918 --> 01:03:38,354 Because of our environment, because of the type of jail we are with medium and open custody 875 01:03:38,404 --> 01:03:42,735 men can have opportunities to go for a walk, just be outside in fresh air 876 01:03:42,785 --> 01:03:48,499 just be outside in fresh air a center that has cells and big heavy metal doors it's very different how that feels 877 01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:52,183 This environment allows them, I think, to feel safe 878 01:03:52,233 --> 01:03:55,760 We're there to support them, and to help, them try and change their lives 879 01:03:56,331 --> 01:03:58,190 When we have our alumni come back, 880 01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,424 especially a success story - someone who's doing well in the community 881 01:04:01,474 --> 01:04:04,933 Them coming back and sharing the experience that they've had 882 01:04:04,983 --> 01:04:09,535 since their release, and giving these other guys motivation saying, like, "Hey..." 883 01:04:09,585 --> 01:04:12,233 "...if this guy can do it, so can I" 884 01:04:12,283 --> 01:04:15,581 It just kind of gives them a sense of relief in terms of 885 01:04:15,631 --> 01:04:17,700 what they're putting their time into 886 01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:21,274 A lot of people who did see the movie knew who Joe was, so 887 01:04:21,298 --> 01:04:23,775 they got to see that it can happen to anybody 888 01:04:23,825 --> 01:04:26,816 and the fact that he still comes back is... is huge 889 01:04:26,866 --> 01:04:31,520 A lot of respect in terms of showing support for the community that supported him 890 01:04:32,281 --> 01:04:34,585 This was my job for many months 891 01:04:34,635 --> 01:04:38,836 I got to just do the zen of laundry and you know, folding clothes, but also 892 01:04:38,886 --> 01:04:43,555 I could sit down here and I could read, or write, and I wrote a lot of songs down here and there's 893 01:04:43,872 --> 01:04:47,639 fairly like, you know, there's a little bit of an echo like, decent acoustics 894 01:04:47,689 --> 01:04:51,122 so I would sit down and sometimes bring a guitar down and play, or 895 01:04:51,172 --> 01:04:53,915 whatever and stuff like that while I was working... 896 01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,419 I don't know if I was allowed to play guitar while I was working, so 897 01:04:58,469 --> 01:05:02,405 maybe don't... we won't tell that... no anyway, but... (laughs) 898 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:09,038 - (singing) "Well there is something I have learned..." 899 01:05:09,088 --> 01:05:14,096 "...of the virtues I have earned..." 900 01:05:14,146 --> 01:05:18,618 "...What's given free will be returned..." 901 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,719 "...when love has taken over..." 902 01:05:24,734 --> 01:05:27,470 I was kind of a mess when I first got here, I was 903 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,251 I'd been holding all this stuff together for years and years, and then 904 01:05:31,301 --> 01:05:36,271 coming in here, I could really just let go of that guilt, and shame, and 905 01:05:36,321 --> 01:05:39,385 self-loathing, hate... and all that stuff that was just 906 01:05:39,435 --> 01:05:43,150 burning me up and tearing me apart inside, and actually get it out there 907 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,030 and release it and... and then rebuild 908 01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:54,080 - (singing) "Love... has taken over..." 909 01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,633 Yeah, there's always those... those thoughts, right? 910 01:05:57,683 --> 01:06:01,876 When I've been looking at pictures recently of me when I was younger, and after the movies 911 01:06:01,926 --> 01:06:06,526 If I had stayed in Hollywood yeah, I mean I would have been a star I'm sure 912 01:06:06,843 --> 01:06:11,503 And then also I got offered a part on the Star Trek series - "The Next Generation" as 913 01:06:11,553 --> 01:06:14,950 the Wesley Crusher... which Will Wheaton, you know... 914 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,030 But I was 14 and I remember it being 10 years of my life, 915 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,780 Is that where really what I want to be doing? and... 916 01:06:20,830 --> 01:06:24,976 and at the time I had been in film and TV for so long, I'd missed my childhood 917 01:06:25,026 --> 01:06:27,004 and I just wanted to be a kid again 918 01:06:27,054 --> 01:06:30,236 I figured "Oh well, the right thing to do is finish high school..." 919 01:06:30,286 --> 01:06:33,164 "...and then get back into acting if not" Right? So... 920 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:39,724 Sometimes I think yeah... I mean oh, if I had stayed in movies I would have you know, 921 01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,448 made a million dollars, or whatever it was 922 01:06:42,498 --> 01:06:47,040 At the same time, the way my trajectory went I... I don't... 923 01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,270 Had I moved to LA by myself, unless I had a really good mentor or someone around, 924 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,800 I'm pretty sure that I would probably be dead by now 925 01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,888 - (singing) "...has taken over..." 926 01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,555 Do I wish that I could take things back? 927 01:07:04,605 --> 01:07:10,964 Like, if I could have not committed a crime, and still come here for the amount of time... 928 01:07:11,014 --> 01:07:13,715 ...I would have, I mean I remember phoning, 929 01:07:13,765 --> 01:07:16,903 and I think I talked to Dana and was like "Can I just come to your program?" 930 01:07:16,953 --> 01:07:21,180 She's like "well no, it's based in the correction, you have to be incarcerated" and 931 01:07:21,230 --> 01:07:24,518 that was like a year or so before I actually committed the crime but it 932 01:07:24,568 --> 01:07:32,568 kind of planted the seed "well, maybe I just need to get put away for a decent amount of time" 933 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,830 We're gonna go, I guess around the corner to... and 934 01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,297 I'll just kind of show you where the bank was 935 01:07:41,347 --> 01:07:45,204 and I haven't been back here since... since that infamous day 936 01:07:45,254 --> 01:07:52,717 I was so at a loss, I just so didn't... I was so frustrated and I was so angry at myself 937 01:07:52,767 --> 01:07:54,243 and I was so sad 938 01:07:54,293 --> 01:07:59,950 Well, what can I do to either, maybe get myself a whack of cash so that then I could 939 01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,551 pay for treatment? 940 01:08:01,601 --> 01:08:04,221 I didn't want to go to a 35-day program, 941 01:08:04,271 --> 01:08:08,110 or even a three-month program, I wanted to go to like a year program 942 01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,750 So I'm grateful that it's actually a holiday Monday, and the bank isn't open 943 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,550 I just started feeling more and more hopeless, 944 01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:22,600 more and more handcuffed, backed into a wall like, just at my wits 945 01:08:22,650 --> 01:08:25,390 I was very suicidal 946 01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:31,084 I don't think that I would really be recognizable now, per se, because I look so different 947 01:08:31,134 --> 01:08:34,348 I just wanted to get a whole bunch of heroin and just kill myself 948 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,950 and I remembered about the Guthrie program, in Nanaimo Corrections, 949 01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,267 and I thought that was basically like my only option to get clean 950 01:08:46,092 --> 01:08:47,950 So I started looking up crimes 951 01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,118 I was on methadone at the time 952 01:08:50,372 --> 01:08:53,799 I think if anything, that I was probably... 953 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,017 ...that I'd probably smoke some crack 954 01:08:56,271 --> 01:09:03,487 I didn't want to do it violently, and I can't remember exactly why I chose the day that I did or 955 01:09:03,537 --> 01:09:05,828 what happened or anything, I just... 956 01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:08,665 I just finally did it 957 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,373 I don't know how I feel, I... I mean I feel... 958 01:09:14,423 --> 01:09:21,655 I felt like bad for people who loved the movie 959 01:09:23,596 --> 01:09:25,537 (crying) 960 01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:39,548 And I just... I've just been really messed up 961 01:09:42,466 --> 01:09:50,138 and I felt horrible when, when I read that the poor woman was terrified 962 01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:59,196 It's not just a story about a kid actor that goes to jail, it's about what happened 963 01:09:59,246 --> 01:10:02,572 I wrote a letter, an apology letter, to her 964 01:10:02,622 --> 01:10:06,519 I tried to get it to her, I don't know if it ever got to her though 965 01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:12,430 Those choices seem so silly to anybody who's clean, and has been all their life, but 966 01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:16,217 if you've ever been in that position, it's not a far reach 967 01:10:16,267 --> 01:10:19,722 When I saw what had happened, my heart broke 968 01:10:19,772 --> 01:10:26,190 I was upset for him, and angry at the industry for letting it happen 969 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,579 It's a tough life being an actor, and as a kid actor it's double 970 01:10:30,629 --> 01:10:33,459 Yes it's the old story, but it's a true story 971 01:10:33,509 --> 01:10:35,816 Oh, you're hot when you're hot, and you're not when you're not, and 972 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,363 when you're cute and you're young, and you're adorable and you're fresh, and 973 01:10:38,387 --> 01:10:41,540 you're doing a movie and, you know, everybody's all over you, and then 10 years later 974 01:10:41,564 --> 01:10:44,677 you're not that cute little adorable child any longer, and 975 01:10:44,727 --> 01:10:47,469 somehow you know, you don't have a slot that you fit into 976 01:10:47,519 --> 01:10:50,990 I think child actors always have problems 977 01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,026 A lot is expected of them, and they're working in a field that is totally unreal 978 01:10:56,076 --> 01:11:00,403 That becomes part of your growth experience, and you think that's the way life is going to be 979 01:11:00,453 --> 01:11:04,270 and life isn't going to be that way, it's a very unforgiving business 980 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,230 I think Joey was on the verge of massive stardom, to be honest 981 01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:13,099 but it's very easy sometimes to zig when you should have zagged 982 01:11:13,607 --> 01:11:17,550 I think it's a very difficult way to grow up 983 01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:23,492 It's the rare child, I would say, that comes through the experience of having been a child actor 984 01:11:23,542 --> 01:11:25,943 and doesn't suffer some consequence of it 985 01:11:25,993 --> 01:11:29,550 There's very few of us that have ever made the transition 986 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,044 It happens, but not often, and I think it's particularly hard on kids 987 01:11:34,425 --> 01:11:38,826 I would think that the issues around the industry, in kids are 988 01:11:38,876 --> 01:11:41,496 a sense of normalcy, and what is normal when you're a kid? 989 01:11:41,546 --> 01:11:46,174 There's so many areas in our lives where we have to have training, 990 01:11:46,224 --> 01:11:48,029 It was missing there in the movies 991 01:11:48,079 --> 01:11:51,292 It is a stereotype, but it's a stereotype for a reason, it's 992 01:11:51,316 --> 01:11:58,318 story after story of kids who are expected to be adults, 993 01:11:58,368 --> 01:12:02,990 and are treated as adults, far earlier than they should be treated as adults 994 01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,959 One of the worst things that can happen to a child prodigy, or a child singer, or a child actor, 995 01:12:09,009 --> 01:12:10,717 is they grow up 996 01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,950 You see, when they're young everybody's going "You should hear this kid play the piano, you 997 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:20,030 "...should hear this kid, they are incredible" and they get all that attention because they're a child 998 01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:28,080 and so the unique aura that is around a child, when they're an adult, that disappears 999 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,353 and that can be especially brutal when you've made your life being a child, 1000 01:12:32,403 --> 01:12:34,444 and everybody loved you as a child 1001 01:12:34,494 --> 01:12:40,187 It's almost like being typecast as a kid, and you grow out of being a kid 1002 01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,812 He has access to something that I don't, 1003 01:12:43,862 --> 01:12:47,268 and maybe that vulnerability was a liability 1004 01:12:47,318 --> 01:12:51,584 in dealing with what we all know is true about this business 1005 01:12:51,634 --> 01:12:59,150 and when it's stymied, when it's resisted by the real world 1006 01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:00,631 ...it beats you up 1007 01:13:00,681 --> 01:13:08,270 It's easy to understand turning towards some kind of relief, whether it's meditation or drugs, 1008 01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,455 or simply acting out, aberrant behavior 1009 01:13:11,505 --> 01:13:16,965 Any combination of those makes life hell, not only for yourself, but for others around you 1010 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:18,875 But I'm not a psychiatrist... 1011 01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,731 I'm just a former drug user 1012 01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,950 So I was going through my stuff today, and I found an old picture of me and my aunt and 1013 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,718 uncle from 2006 at my my dad's funeral 1014 01:13:39,099 --> 01:13:41,563 It reminded me that, um... 1015 01:13:42,197 --> 01:13:44,938 regardless of... of 1016 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:50,320 the little time we'd spent together during my life um, 1017 01:13:50,370 --> 01:13:55,887 the first time I went to rehab in 2005, I reached out to him and he actually came, uh 1018 01:13:55,937 --> 01:13:59,923 met up for a family counseling session thing, 1019 01:13:59,973 --> 01:14:06,943 and then once I was released, he offered me to come and stay with him on Galliano Island 1020 01:14:06,993 --> 01:14:12,909 I connected with my dad, and went and lived with him for the six months while he was dying 1021 01:14:12,959 --> 01:14:20,938 and I finally started to see and understand, kind of, why he was emotionally 1022 01:14:20,988 --> 01:14:24,030 unavailable for me - he shared things about his 1023 01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,350 childhood and... and his life 1024 01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:32,777 It created some closure when he did pass away, and I realized that 1025 01:14:32,827 --> 01:14:37,885 you know, I was... I was there holding his hand when he died, and I realized that 1026 01:14:37,935 --> 01:14:45,674 he was there for me when I was born, and I was there for him when he died, so... 1027 01:14:45,724 --> 01:14:48,381 ...pretty uh, special thing 1028 01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,790 When I first got released, I went straight to Vancouver Island Therapeutic Community 1029 01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:04,590 and I spent almost nine months there, and that's like the sister program to Guthrie 1030 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:09,762 Now, I've had the opportunity to move into this house, so it's kind of a third stage 1031 01:15:09,812 --> 01:15:13,442 We're a lot more independent, taking care of ourselves, going to school, 1032 01:15:13,492 --> 01:15:15,630 getting a job, get all our own groceries 1033 01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:19,047 and you can pretty much stay here as long as you need to 1034 01:15:19,097 --> 01:15:22,416 Generally, like a three to four year, you know, window to... 1035 01:15:22,466 --> 01:15:25,550 to really get fully integrated back into the community 1036 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,950 I live with four other guys who are... also have been through the program and 1037 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,352 I had one roommate who, he had a bit of a slip and, you know, and relapsed and 1038 01:15:34,402 --> 01:15:40,000 ended up going back to VITC for a little while, so did another four months at VITC 1039 01:15:40,050 --> 01:15:44,515 and then ended up moving back into the third stage house, and is now doing really well so 1040 01:15:44,565 --> 01:15:50,110 sometimes it takes those... those times of, you know, of trial and error and... 1041 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:54,551 and learning that it's not a failure to relapse or to slip up because 1042 01:15:54,601 --> 01:15:58,306 those behaviors and those habits are so ingrained that 1043 01:15:58,356 --> 01:16:01,389 it ends up being the normal thing to do, right? 1044 01:16:01,706 --> 01:16:06,033 My goal is to move out on my own and start acting, and for me 1045 01:16:06,083 --> 01:16:09,573 I want to keep moving forward, and keep going on to the next stage, and the next 1046 01:16:09,623 --> 01:16:15,754 challenge, and the next goals and keep... keep uh, keep going 1047 01:16:16,896 --> 01:16:22,510 - So we're going to concentrate on the words that drive you, and drive your personality 1048 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,583 Hi, my name is Joe Cramer, I'm represented by Spotlight Academy 1049 01:16:26,633 --> 01:16:30,924 - There's nobody new in this classroom, you've now all known me for quite some time, 1050 01:16:30,974 --> 01:16:32,066 - some longer than others 1051 01:16:32,116 --> 01:16:38,776 The environment has allowed me to really be myself, and be vulnerable and be open, and just 1052 01:16:39,157 --> 01:16:40,590 and just do what I love 1053 01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,572 You can just see now, you know, all of those skills coming back 1054 01:16:45,622 --> 01:16:50,510 but now as a man, with all of those life skills, and all of that maturity 1055 01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,670 and all of that beautiful vulnerability, that most people don't get 1056 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:56,868 and such an understanding of life 1057 01:16:56,918 --> 01:16:59,256 (laughs) Way to go tiger 1058 01:16:59,573 --> 01:17:05,107 Okay, you know what? Let's get going, I want to make it back down to camp before dark 1059 01:17:05,424 --> 01:17:08,595 We'll stay the night, and then we'll head back out home tomorrow morning 1060 01:17:08,645 --> 01:17:11,233 Acting is a journey of self-discovery, 1061 01:17:11,283 --> 01:17:15,950 and learning that my experience is a gift, and that it's not a curse 1062 01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,527 What you're doing is inspirational 1063 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,887 You give people hope through your journey 1064 01:17:23,204 --> 01:17:28,870 This is a home that we've created, a safe environment for you, to be able to feel 1065 01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,922 free and to fly... fly with a skill that you were given as a child 1066 01:17:33,972 --> 01:17:40,000 and now coming back, that flight is so much more powerful as a man, right? Yeah 1067 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:47,053 I've learned to be humble enough to ask for help and to say 1068 01:17:47,103 --> 01:17:51,264 "Okay, I put some pretty big blocks in my path, and I can't move them all on my own" 1069 01:17:51,314 --> 01:17:55,528 I've changed my life, and I believe that for all people struggling 1070 01:17:55,578 --> 01:18:00,590 We all have the power inside of us to do it, and make those choices, 1071 01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,435 and we don't have to do it alone 1072 01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,248 I can't ever take back things that I've done 1073 01:18:06,565 --> 01:18:09,545 I feel like I'm living the life that I was meant to, now 1074 01:18:09,595 --> 01:18:11,090 Hi Sarah! No (laughs) 1075 01:18:11,407 --> 01:18:16,644 When I went back to high school, and then I didn't fit in, and I was bullied and I was chased, and 1076 01:18:16,694 --> 01:18:21,142 those memories kind of stuck in my mind, but now that I'm 1077 01:18:21,192 --> 01:18:26,221 like living, you know, a normal life it's like, I barely remember the bad times anymore 1078 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:31,149 I know he's grown up, you know, he's growing up... he's a man 1079 01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:37,240 Now I don't know where he is because he's busy, not because he's out somewhere doing some 1080 01:18:37,290 --> 01:18:38,455 horrible thing 1081 01:18:38,505 --> 01:18:45,483 and it's just so wonderful to see him come back into himself again over this 1082 01:18:45,533 --> 01:18:49,025 is it, two years now, he's out? 1083 01:18:49,075 --> 01:18:53,436 Sometimes I think "God, it would be so easy for him to go back" but 1084 01:18:53,753 --> 01:18:59,520 I really don't think he wants to go back, I hope... I hope 1085 01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,310 - Joe, you're back in Hollywood 1086 01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,788 - How does it feel to be back in LA? 1087 01:19:09,838 --> 01:19:15,310 "You know, being back here it's pretty amazing, I mean Hollywood is like, it's 'Lights, Camera, Action" 1088 01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:20,886 I wasn't sure if I was, just kind of a child actor who looked the part 1089 01:19:20,936 --> 01:19:24,584 and if it was what I was really meant to do, and after all this time 1090 01:19:24,634 --> 01:19:29,035 I still come back to something that reminded me, is that it's never too late to be 1091 01:19:29,085 --> 01:19:32,083 who you might have been, and then 1092 01:19:32,133 --> 01:19:38,175 pretty exciting, we've coordinated this "Navigator" reunion 1093 01:19:38,225 --> 01:19:42,670 Not really sure exactly... exactly who's going to be here and stuff so, it'll be a surprise 1094 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:49,710 but I'm really excited like, it felt like a family, and it just it was a huge part of my young... young life 1095 01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:54,831 I have butterflies, I'm nervous, I'm not really sure what to expect, I mean 1096 01:19:54,881 --> 01:19:59,429 There was many times over the years that I thought about reaching out 1097 01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:04,775 I was embarrassed or ashamed of how my life was at the time, so I never reached out 1098 01:20:04,825 --> 01:20:09,769 That being said, now that I'm in such a good place, and with myself, and in my life 1099 01:20:09,819 --> 01:20:12,727 it's going to be really exciting to see all these people 1100 01:20:12,777 --> 01:20:15,548 Joey Cramer... - Oh my gosh 1101 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,384 How are you buddy? - I'm so good 1102 01:20:21,018 --> 01:20:25,310 Hello... - Hi... so good to see you 1103 01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:26,910 Do I call you Joey, or Joe? 1104 01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,950 Whatever you want, I'm easy, Joey's good - Yeah? 1105 01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:32,517 It's so good, so good to see you! - Wow, look at you... 1106 01:20:32,567 --> 01:20:39,293 Randal has always been wonderful and supportive, and I'd want him to know that he's 1107 01:20:39,343 --> 01:20:45,710 a huge part of my life, and like that, I didn't really have much of a father figure, 1108 01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:51,470 I always felt cared for and loved, and appreciated, and just such a 1109 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:58,104 generous spirit, and such a good man like, I just... I couldn't say enough really 1110 01:20:58,154 --> 01:21:01,390 and I mean, who's kidding like, "Grease"? 1111 01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:06,510 Well, there's one guy over there... uh, oh Detective... Detective Banks... 1112 01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:08,250 Remember this guy? 1113 01:21:08,300 --> 01:21:11,307 Finally gonna deliver you home - That's right 1114 01:21:12,512 --> 01:21:17,600 So good to see you! - You too... get the family back together 1115 01:21:17,650 --> 01:21:23,148 I think that the notion of a movie becoming a cult classic, is something that 1116 01:21:23,198 --> 01:21:27,327 always is for people other than the filmmakers to make happen 1117 01:21:27,377 --> 01:21:31,310 Oh hey, good to see you, Tim! - Albie Whitaker 1118 01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,326 Oh my God, Albie... this is your little brother! 1119 01:21:34,376 --> 01:21:37,263 Oh yeah, how are you? - Good to see you, man 1120 01:21:37,313 --> 01:21:40,742 You know, the picture opened, okay 1121 01:21:40,792 --> 01:21:45,776 The fact is that the picture played for years on the Disney Channel, and 1122 01:21:45,826 --> 01:21:51,339 developed a real, I would say, a cult following, more as a result of television, and video 1123 01:21:51,389 --> 01:21:52,910 than theatrical 1124 01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,250 You're out? - I'm out 1125 01:21:55,300 --> 01:21:59,950 Yeah, no probation, no, you know, no ankle bracelet, nothing (laughs) 1126 01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,390 And just, yeah it's great, I got my NASA shoes on - Okay! 1127 01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:08,581 This movie had a lot of things in it that were new for the time 1128 01:22:08,631 --> 01:22:11,630 and I think when you add all of those different elements, the 1129 01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:16,684 ...the puppetry, Joey particularly, the ship itself, it became something 1130 01:22:16,734 --> 01:22:20,584 larger than something we even imagined, and regardless of 1131 01:22:20,634 --> 01:22:24,590 the box office outcome of a movie like that is, a movie like that 1132 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,992 tends to continue to play, and play 1133 01:22:27,042 --> 01:22:29,954 There's been talk of... of doing a sequel 1134 01:22:30,004 --> 01:22:32,961 I would kill to work on a sequel to that movie, that'd be fun 1135 01:22:33,011 --> 01:22:38,030 I love the original and sometimes these remakes don't work out 1136 01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:39,950 If you're gonna do it, it has to be better 1137 01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:45,470 I'm trying to think of one where it did, and I can't think of one (laughs) 1138 01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:48,222 And I had this really funny thing happen 1139 01:22:48,272 --> 01:22:51,319 where um, well because you know I've been through ups and downs and I 1140 01:22:51,369 --> 01:22:54,373 was in jail for a while and all this stuff right, you know? - Yeah 1141 01:22:54,423 --> 01:22:58,372 but I actually had some officers who loved the movie, - Yeah 1142 01:22:58,422 --> 01:23:04,628 print off the script and ask me the questions while we were driving 1143 01:23:04,678 --> 01:23:08,192 We were driving to go to some appointment or something, and they were like 1144 01:23:08,242 --> 01:23:11,645 "So you know, David right, who's the President of the United States?" I'm like 1145 01:23:11,695 --> 01:23:15,567 "Duh, you want to know that for your paperwork?" Anyway right, but uh... 1146 01:23:15,617 --> 01:23:19,235 But they... we did the whole scene, and I still remembered it after all these years 1147 01:23:19,285 --> 01:23:22,606 That's fantastic, man, that's fantastic - But super fun 1148 01:23:22,987 --> 01:23:25,280 I can't believe it's 33 years 1149 01:23:25,597 --> 01:23:29,194 I do conventions, and you'd be amazed how many people come 1150 01:23:29,244 --> 01:23:31,248 and have seen "Flight of the Navigator" 1151 01:23:31,298 --> 01:23:35,310 I remember seeing the picture for the first time, 1152 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:37,647 seeing the picture for the first time, and being so moved by it 1153 01:23:37,671 --> 01:23:40,634 It's lovely when they come up and they say "Oh..." 1154 01:23:40,684 --> 01:23:45,710 My favourite movie is "Flight of the Navigator", it's not "Alien", it's "Flight of the Navigator" 1155 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:51,133 Kids were always coming up to me saying "Oh you were the dad in "Flight of the Navigator!" 1156 01:23:51,183 --> 01:23:55,440 And I said "Yeah", they said "Oh you know, I really loved it, and it changed my life and..." 1157 01:23:55,490 --> 01:23:59,331 "...I was having trouble with my parents but then I saw that" and 1158 01:23:59,381 --> 01:24:03,576 and it was really touching to me how it touched them, 1159 01:24:03,626 --> 01:24:08,626 So it's always surprising to me, the emotional resonance that some of these things have 1160 01:24:08,943 --> 01:24:12,905 It comes up and I would say "Well, I was in a movie" and they're like "Well, what movie? and I say 1161 01:24:12,955 --> 01:24:18,990 "Flight of the Navigator"...everybody has the same response, they go "Oh my God, I love that movie" 1162 01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,262 Why is Navigator so revered and special to so many? 1163 01:24:22,312 --> 01:24:23,470 Because it has heart 1164 01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,688 When we do movies, it lasts forever 1165 01:24:27,738 --> 01:24:30,830 It's another world in which anything is possible 1166 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,767 I think the reason that "Flight of Navigator" still works is the performance of Joey 1167 01:24:34,817 --> 01:24:37,376 It sets off a child's imagination 1168 01:24:37,426 --> 01:24:44,270 And I think also, people relate to the idea of you never really leave home 1169 01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:49,056 It's a really fun movie with a great message about love, and family, and 1170 01:24:49,106 --> 01:24:54,361 It was sweet... sweet as can be, and of a different era, those movies are gone, 1171 01:24:54,411 --> 01:24:55,963 and we won't see them again 1172 01:24:56,013 --> 01:24:59,431 I didn't realize when I was that young, how many people did watch it 1173 01:24:59,481 --> 01:25:02,586 because people still "Oh, 'Flight of the Navigator', I know that movie" 1174 01:25:02,636 --> 01:25:08,000 I'm always surprised that they say "Yes, that moved me, and thank you" 1175 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,395 What scares me about the future? 1176 01:25:11,445 --> 01:25:15,093 With the most humility I almost don't fear the future 1177 01:25:15,143 --> 01:25:17,749 because I live moment to moment, and 1178 01:25:17,799 --> 01:25:21,434 right now in this moment I'm doing everything I can to be the best 1179 01:25:21,484 --> 01:25:22,688 version of me 1180 01:25:22,712 --> 01:25:29,509 I was the movie star kid who had no identity, and now I do 1181 01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,520 Now I do 1182 01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:40,160 My life after the navigator has been pretty crazy uh, it has been a roller coaster 1183 01:25:44,619 --> 01:25:48,360 It has been very painful 1184 01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,045 I don't need to numb out anymore 1185 01:25:53,426 --> 01:25:56,312 I don't need to hide who I am anymore 1186 01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:58,549 I'm not afraid anymore 1187 01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:03,117 Let's say that only the greatest navigators find new worlds 1188 01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,396 but they also find their way home 1189 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:26,801 It's the day of the Barney Bental concert at the Port Theater 1190 01:26:26,851 --> 01:26:29,018 I'm going, uh... 1191 01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:31,672 going downtown for an audition 1192 01:26:31,722 --> 01:26:34,608 Woo hoo! I'm technically a high school grad 1193 01:26:34,658 --> 01:26:38,346 My first audition in probably 15 years or something 1194 01:26:38,396 --> 01:26:43,550 Just a quick hello, I'm off to VIU today to... this morning to 1195 01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:46,194 um, I think officially register for school 1196 01:26:46,244 --> 01:26:51,034 Today I'm off to court well, to have my 1197 01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,663 probation terminated early 1198 01:26:53,713 --> 01:26:56,775 Working on set today, working on a commercial 1199 01:26:56,825 --> 01:26:59,269 and doing some PA work, so it's super fun 1200 01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:01,972 I got approved 1201 01:27:02,022 --> 01:27:04,829 just awesome to be where I love to be 1202 01:27:04,879 --> 01:27:08,910 August 31st my probation will end 1203 01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:14,487 It's my birthday, happy birthday to me... 47! 1204 01:27:14,537 --> 01:27:17,790 - Hi Joe, good morning! Welcome to Alamo City Comic Con! 1205 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,470 Ahhhh! (laughs) 1206 01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:20,817 I'm having so much fun 1207 01:27:20,867 --> 01:27:22,591 Who doesn't need a golf cart? 1208 01:27:22,641 --> 01:27:27,822 One of the coolest things about today is that I am two years off of methadone 1209 01:27:27,872 --> 01:27:31,163 Joe Cramer, "Flight of the Navigator" Hey, who am I? Sam J Jones 1210 01:27:31,213 --> 01:27:32,648 Yeah, Flash Gordon! 1211 01:27:32,698 --> 01:27:34,617 I met some really cool people this morning 1212 01:27:34,667 --> 01:27:38,190 but it's just one of those movies that you loved as a kid 1213 01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,045 and you carried it over into your adulthood 1214 01:27:41,095 --> 01:27:44,255 Here's the Majestic in downtown San Antonio 1215 01:27:44,305 --> 01:27:49,000 And I had, of course, the biggest crush on Joe, I mean right, what what kid didn't? 1216 01:27:49,050 --> 01:27:52,520 Pretty much, you know, like one meeting with someone who really 1217 01:27:52,570 --> 01:27:56,175 like, loved "Flight of the Navigator" and came all this way, it's worth 1218 01:27:56,225 --> 01:28:00,275 like the full day - I could sit here and not meet another person, and I'd be happy 1219 01:28:00,325 --> 01:28:03,376 "One, two, three...!" (laughs) 1220 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:08,830 I don't know what I was trying to say, okay I'm gonna start it over (laughs) 1221 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:15,150 One of the hardest decisions, and also best decisions, that I had to make was letting 1222 01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,351 Celecta become formally adopted 1223 01:28:18,401 --> 01:28:23,193 I was working hard to stay clean, and I wanted her to grow up with the 1224 01:28:23,243 --> 01:28:28,910 best possible opportunities, so Celecta's foster parents - Joanne and Claude 1225 01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,638 offered to formally adopt her 1226 01:28:31,688 --> 01:28:37,751 Over the past few years, Celecta and I have gotten to bond and connect more and more 1227 01:28:37,801 --> 01:28:41,840 I feel so grateful that we did this 1228 01:28:50,124 --> 01:28:54,863 - Tonight we're going to have a 35mm presentation of the classic "Flight of the Navigator" 1229 01:28:54,913 --> 01:28:58,642 followed by the Q&A with our guests, but I'd like to bring them out now 1230 01:28:58,692 --> 01:29:00,797 to say hello, they'll be sitting with you 1231 01:29:01,526 --> 01:29:06,630 - We have the director of this film, the amazing Randal Kleiser 1232 01:29:08,723 --> 01:29:14,657 - We have the casting director Valorie Massalas is here, put it together for this wonderful cast 1233 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:22,761 - And lastly, we have the navigator himself, Joe Cramer's here - the Navigator! 1234 01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,590 - There's a lot of in-jokes in here, you have "Grease" playing 1235 01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,550 Oh yeah, the film was set in 1978 1236 01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,503 - And you directed an episode of "Starsky and Hutch"? 1237 01:29:36,527 --> 01:29:38,571 I did...(laughs) 1238 01:29:38,621 --> 01:29:42,533 You were the voice of Johnny 5 in "Short Circuit" as well, is that correct? Because these people... 1239 01:29:42,557 --> 01:29:49,321 Yes! No disassemble... need input... 1240 01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:56,637 I was sort of thinking like "God, that poor kid, he thought that hair and those glasses look cool" 1241 01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,691 Hi Joey, how are you doing? This is one of my favorite movies like, 1242 01:30:03,741 --> 01:30:05,840 I'm totally geeking out right now - That's okay 1243 01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:12,925 I'm really proud, and I know I'm really worthy 1244 01:30:12,975 --> 01:30:16,714 and I totally deserve this, so... 1245 01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:21,620 I want to thank everybody who never gave up on me 1246 01:30:21,670 --> 01:30:25,845 I know that there's a lot of you out there, and... 1247 01:30:30,099 --> 01:30:31,619 Thank you 119212

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