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I'm gonna get you mic'd up and then
I will text, Ash to...
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...so we can go in the door,
he'll let us in from the inside so...
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Oh it's Ray, hello Ray
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How you doing man?
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Wow
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Taken care of...
taken care of... bless you
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Oh yeah, I was Detective Banks
- Detective Banks!
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Yes I brought that little guy back to
his family after eight years missing
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Good, good, I'll let you do your thing...
Hey folks
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All right you're good to button that up
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Joey Cramer...
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Randal had called me one day and said "did
you hear about Joey?" and I said "No I hadn't"
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I wondered always what had happened to him
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Someone had
sent me a link about Joey being arrested
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Like you're kidding me? What
was it a bank robbery or something?
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I was startled, really startled
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Joe seemed like a totally normal kid
when I worked with him
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I didn't see any sign that
there was any problems
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I was kind of surprised when I saw his mug
shot and thought "what happened to him?"
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I didn't know how early he had
started drugs until much later
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It's not just a story about a kid
actor that goes to jail, it's about...
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...what happened?
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I think acting as a child is wonderful,
though I think it's really important not to
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turn it into their only identity
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When I tried to go back to school and
be normal, I was anything but normal
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and before I knew it my childhood was gone
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so
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Hi, it's getting close to Christmas
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21st today, so it's the winter solstice,
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which, I was told by a good friend of mine,
it's good to
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to pray and meditate and stuff on what
we want to manifest for the next year
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and our lives and everything so did a lot
of that last night
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Sometimes it's really hard
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because I think...
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Sometimes I think "Oh I'm 44 now and I like
totally thrown my whole life away and..."
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"...what if this, and what
if that, what if this?" but
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oh man
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I don't really know what to say
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Up until this last time every time I went to
jail yeah I... I pretty much knew I'd be back
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They don't make it easy
to come out and succeed
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It's just this cycle, I was here with
guys who'd been in and out of jail for
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most of their lives
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We're gonna go I guess around the corner,
and I haven't been back here since that
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infamous day
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I just started feeling more and more
hopeless, so I started looking up crimes
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I felt like I...
that I let a lot of people down
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and that I, um...
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and that that's not me.
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I like these electronic clap boards..
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"Flight of the Navigator" was a really
interesting project
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from the point of view of how it began
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My partner Robby Wald and I
found the original script, it was
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written by someone who'd never written
a script before
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"Flight of the Navigator" was my first
original screenplay, and it was called
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"Vanished"...
it came from a dream
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We took it to Disney - Richard Berger
was the president of Disney at that time,
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he took the
project to the board of directors actually,
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very unusual step and he got the board to approve
picking up the domestic distribution rights
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They had made a partnership
with Producers Sales Organization,
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which was an action company... Disney
wanted to make a family movie so I was
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caught in the middle, you know I
was back and forth and back and
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of course Disney won because they they were
more powerful
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It was the Disney of Jeff Katzenberg, they
only owned the movie for the US rights...
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They had a great deal of
control over the process
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Most of the elements that I had in my film were in
the final film, but it's the changes that really
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make it different
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It was more of a serious film, in my story
they build the ship from his memory so
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they're experimenting with technology that
they don't understand but David does
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and it gets to a point where he realizes
they're never going to let him go
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John Avildsen was attached at one point...
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Brian de Palma wanted to direct
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finally Randal became director
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I originally wanted to be a
cartoonist for Walt Disney
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I made some cartoons in junior high school
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Our family drove out to California
and tried to show it to Walt Disney but
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we were turned away at the gate
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So I gave up cartoons and I decided to do live
action, and then in high school I made lots of
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8mm films, applied to USC film school,
and at that time it was not thought of
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as a serious major
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So I came out to California from Philadelphia,
had a wonderful group of classmates
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including George Lucas, Caleb Deschanel,
John Carpenter, it was quite a class
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We were all told that we would never be able
to get into the movie business because no one
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had at that point
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The studio system was in place
and they were making movies like
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Doris Day, Rock Hudson movies
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The industry was a closed industry,
you had to be related to someone or
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have contacts of some kind to get any
kind of a job but
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the tide changed, the industry changed, the
viewing habits of the public changed,
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and suddenly people who were our age were going
to movies made by people their own age: us
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I started doing TV movies and then moved
on to "Grease", and
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"Blue Lagoon" and "White Fang", and then
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"Flight of the Navigator"
came along at Disney
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There I was back at Disney where I was
turned away many years ago, as a
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13-year old with a little
can of animated film
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Hi, my name is Chris O'Donnell and
I'm from Stuartown
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"Is this thing gonna leak?" "Navigator,
I do not leak, you leak, remember?"
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"You know something?
I don't think I like you"
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One of the biggest aspects of
the movie was the casting of the kid
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We had had casting people in New York,
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we had casting people in LA,
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we had casting people I believe in Chicago
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We saw hundreds of boys one
of them was Joaquin Phoenix
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We saw everybody that was eligible
at that time
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When I was working with Mike
Fenton and Jane Feinberg, which was
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the top casting directors in town
at that time, they had done "E.T",
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"Back to the Futures", "Indiana Jones"... we even
put River Phoenix in one of the Indiana Jones
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They didn't want children that were trained,
they wanted somebody who kind of walked in the
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door and was natural
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So it was important
for them to find an organic experience
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I didn't say under the ocean..all I...
- Let's start again okay, all set?
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- Ready?
- Caged animal and action!
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I didn't say take us under the ocean,
all I asked for was a
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place they couldn't find us
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I was hoping they would get a good kid,
'cos it all depended on him
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You know something?
I don't think I like you
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All right, so I first got into acting and
interested when I was about 8 years old
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My mom worked at UBC,
the university in Vancouver
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in the theater department
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The head of the department was doing
the musical South Pacific
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so he asked if Joe would do it
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People thought he was adorable, and he was,
he's adorable. I mean he was adorable!
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People kept saying to me
"Oh you want to get him in the movies!"
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I wanted nothing to do with it because
I didn't want to be a stage mother
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I had none of that in me at all
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But my friend said "Well you know, you
could get a head shot and see what happens"
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Sure enough he started getting commercials
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00:10:53,544 --> 00:10:58,670
The next thing was an audition for a
movie with Tom Selleck
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and before we even got
home he'd got that one
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Once "Runaway" came out, he was seen
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We got a call from Jeff Katzenberg in fact, and
he said "Well I have some tapes of some kids..."
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...I'd like you to look at them"
and Joey was in the group
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So, I got the audition,
they flew me to California
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That was a big deal, they flew us
to Los Angeles and we stayed in a
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motel on Franklin Avenue, and
Randal just talked to Joe
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and I started to talk a little bit and
Randal said "no no, just let him talk"
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My feeling is that once he met Joe
it was hands down
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He was very very personable, and I could
feel that I connected with him as a person
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When he did the crying scene that's what made
me realize this is a guy because he was so
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emotionally available, so easily triggered to cry
and that was an important part of this character
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and sometimes when you're working with kids it's
hard to get that out of them but with him you just
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turn it on and bam it's there and you
get it on the first take
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When I'm sitting in a room, and
I'm watching one actor after another
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do the same dialogue and the same scenes
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and there's somebody that walks in that room, that
gets you to forget that you're even in that room
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you know you've got something special
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I didn't have reservations
about Joe being a child actor because
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I didn't think of it in that way
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We weren't in it for
the money or anything except the adventure
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I mean, not every
little kid gets to do that
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My first impressions of Joey,
working with Joey was "Ugh..."
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00:12:32,827 --> 00:12:36,270
"...he's so much better
than I am as an actor"
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His emotional life seemed to be real
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When you think about it, Joey is in almost
every frame of that movie
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and so you've got to carry a film
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at his age, that's a
daunting responsibility
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What was so interesting about Joey is, '
cos I'd worked with child actors before...
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having been a child actor myself
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He was very accessible to his emotions,
he was that boy
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He was darling, he was just darling.
What was he, 12?
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I had been driven out to the set to sort of
meet everybody and it was very very pink and
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this beautiful sunset that only happens in
that latitude and there were these tiny just
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thousands of these tiny puffy puffy white clouds,
and Randal pointed at the sky and he was like
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"that's why we're shooting in Florida"
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We talked about filming the movie in
a lot of different places
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We started out thinking we could do it
up in like Salt Lake City
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and then the weather started to get
bad, and we kept being boxed out of places
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where we could do the project
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Ultimately Florida seemed to be the only place
where you actually had white puffy clouds
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and blue skies. We were based in Fort
Lauderdale and that's where we shot the movie
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Going on, on a location to shoot a
movie was my favourite thing to do
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As a little kid, I think big picture was
I'm excited I don't have to be in school
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Being the first major role that I had,
I remember thinking
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"Wow, there's a lot of down time", so
we did get to spend a lot of time together
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We just all had such a great time
on the movie, it was terrific
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So I was cast to play
the young girl who, um...
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David had a crush on
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and I was riding my bike, I had to say "hi
David" in a way that was a little bit flirty
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"Hi David"..."hi Jennifer"
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00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,652
The funniest thing that I really remember
is, I wasn't actually riding down the street
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This one guy, his job was to push me out
on the bike from behind the tree
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I was just sitting there waiting on the bike, and
I must have been pushed out from behind that bush
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I mean probably 300 times
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There's really not much more to it other
than he kind of gets busted looking at me
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00:14:41,106 --> 00:14:44,950
so, there's some of that father-son
interaction, which is kind of cute
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00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,350
Well the first challenge was
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00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,510
there's a first scene where there's a Frisbee
throwing contest and when the dogs are jumping
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00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:56,127
It's Miami, it's sunny, I was a somewhat chubby
little kid and sitting there on his shoulders
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This took all day... my shoulders ached for a
couple of days, I said "damn is he heavy or what?"
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00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,082
I didn't tell Jeff, I didn't want to
upset him, but later I said
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00:15:07,132 --> 00:15:10,990
"Let's not have any more kid on the
shoulders scenes, please"
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The scene when I'm trying to signal Joey
back to the house was probably the most
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00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,320
viscerally memorable scene for me just in
terms of the action sequence of doing that
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Going up on the roof was pretty scary
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00:15:23,143 --> 00:15:26,731
It was very windy, I can't even believe
they let me do it actually
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00:15:26,781 --> 00:15:29,520
I don't think they
would let some... an actor do that nowadays
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Can you see him yet?
- Not yet
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00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:41,070
In all honesty, things went so smoothly for me
the challenge that I had was believing everything
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which was very easy, because the
environment was created and it was so real
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I mean, we believed we
were in that police station
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You know, when we
get into the car it's real
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00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,412
and then the... the moment which even when
I think of it now it affects me emotionally
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is bringing him to the door of his house to meet
his parents for the first time in eight years
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00:16:02,182 --> 00:16:05,212
It was like a very, very vulnerable
and powerful moment
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00:16:05,262 --> 00:16:07,840
and I was so glad to be a part of
something like that
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00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,230
One of the things that always amazed me was the
very beginning, when David falls into the crevasse
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where that was done, which was
down in Miami, they turned a somewhat
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jungle location during
the middle of the day
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00:16:19,842 --> 00:16:23,644
into a scary evening scene with fog
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00:16:23,694 --> 00:16:28,383
Little known fact, there's the one scene where
he walks across the train tracks, David, and he
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00:16:28,433 --> 00:16:31,109
throws a stone - that's
not me, that's a stand-in
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00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:34,462
My stand-in was a wonderful
woman named Rosie
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Chronologically the opening scene was not
filmed first
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00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,112
I'm wondering what the first scene was?
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00:16:42,162 --> 00:16:46,585
I think it was actually when uh, they
pull up home from the Frisbee competition
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00:16:46,635 --> 00:16:51,407
and funny enough on the radio...
"You're The One That I Want"
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00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,150
The movie takes place in 1978, and when
they're driving up to the house I thought
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00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,870
it'd be fun to put "You're The One That I Want"
on the radio 'cos it was just a little nod
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00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,065
to a movie I did before this
221
00:17:04,115 --> 00:17:07,440
Randal had one of the first
cell phones I'd ever seen
222
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,370
That was about the size of a WWII
American army walkie-talkie
223
00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:17,167
I mean it was huge
224
00:17:17,217 --> 00:17:22,091
and I would see him between takes
talking on this thing
225
00:17:22,141 --> 00:17:25,760
"What is that?"
- "It's a cell phone"... I thought
226
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,710
You must be in contact with NASA
through this thing
227
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,750
I just remember him being
very open to improvisation
228
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,310
The beginning of the film,
jumped out of the car and there was
229
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,830
"Weasel, dork...
buttface, scuzzbucket..."
230
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,030
And that was Randal just saying
"Hey, what would you guys say?"
231
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,093
During the very beginning in the
back of the car and
232
00:17:45,143 --> 00:17:49,070
"You little dehydrated pizza
face!"
233
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,456
That was my line as well, Randal was like
"what would you call your little brother?"
234
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,270
So I had a fat lip in that scene,
which you can kind of see
235
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,350
I can't remember exactly what happened...
236
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,674
I vividly remember, the sidewalk that
I ride the bike down,
237
00:18:02,724 --> 00:18:07,402
there's a shrubbery before you see me come out,
and right on the other side of the shrubbery
238
00:18:07,452 --> 00:18:11,123
Joey and I were on skateboards
crashing into each other
239
00:18:11,173 --> 00:18:14,954
I think by accident like my skateboard
popped up and smacked him in the mouth
240
00:18:15,004 --> 00:18:17,228
and it was like panic on set
241
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,336
Ever since I saw the opening of the red sea
in "The Ten Commandments"
242
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:26,350
I wanted to do some special effects
because that affected me so much
243
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,255
That's when I started looking around
for a way to make this movie different
244
00:18:30,305 --> 00:18:33,870
make the spaceship different,
something we haven't seen before
245
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,740
...so I went to my brother Jeff
246
00:18:36,057 --> 00:18:40,910
We've worked on films since his high school
films, you know I was an actor in his first film
247
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,190
At the time in 1985, I was about
seven years into
248
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,368
a first company that I founded in New York
doing computer animation,
249
00:18:50,418 --> 00:18:53,985
we had worked on "Tron" before that,
the company was called Digital Effects
250
00:18:54,035 --> 00:18:58,676
I was hanging out with Jeff and saw this Tide
bottle that he was doing for a commercial
251
00:18:58,726 --> 00:18:59,950
and it changed shape
252
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,872
Smoothly morphing it into a map of
the United States
253
00:19:02,922 --> 00:19:05,550
and I thought "wow, I've never
seen that before"
254
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,829
He's talked about how he wanted the spaceship
to start out to have a certain configuration
255
00:19:09,879 --> 00:19:12,865
when it's hovering and moving
slowly and then when it goes faster it
256
00:19:12,915 --> 00:19:15,920
elongates and changes into a more
aerodynamic vehicle
257
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,576
To my knowledge "Flight of the Navigator"
was the first time that
258
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,003
reflection mapping was
used in a feature film
259
00:19:24,053 --> 00:19:28,268
At the back of a book called "Special
Effects" was a picture of a chrome dog
260
00:19:28,318 --> 00:19:32,174
which was a computer
generated form that they
261
00:19:32,224 --> 00:19:36,110
took the background and mapped it onto it,
it's called 'reflectance mapping'
262
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,190
The last chapter said "This is the future", and I
thought "Okay if that's the future, let's use it"
263
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,430
If the ship was flying say over the
water, we needed to have every frame
264
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,457
that was reflecting off
the ship slightly different
265
00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:51,614
We'd get a helicopter, we'd shoot the sky and
the surroundings and form those into kind of a...
266
00:19:51,664 --> 00:19:56,430
an image sphere, that we could mathematically
put around the spaceship and reflect
267
00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,371
that imagery off of it so the spaceship would
look like it was reflecting the environment
268
00:20:00,421 --> 00:20:05,413
I remember how excited people were,
and how excited Randal was when he was
269
00:20:05,463 --> 00:20:08,702
seeing the spaceship like flying over the
water and the reflection on the money
270
00:20:08,752 --> 00:20:10,281
it was like groundbreaking
271
00:20:10,331 --> 00:20:14,830
I talked with Jim Cameron later and he said
that the "Flight of the Navigator" spaceship
272
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,858
was his inspiration for
the chrome terminator
273
00:20:17,908 --> 00:20:20,880
When he saw that he said
"ah, I can do that on Terminator"
274
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,870
It was the beginning of a whole new era in
visual effects photography
275
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,049
In those days whenever you did
an optical shot, a special effects shot,
276
00:20:30,099 --> 00:20:33,550
it cost about $30,000, so I wanted to
come up with ways to
277
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,934
save that money and have more shots,
so we hired Doug Henning to come in...
278
00:20:37,984 --> 00:20:42,830
"What can we do using stage magic to do some of
these effects so that it won't be so expensive?"
279
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,620
When the boy walks up the steps into
the spaceship that was an in-camera effect
280
00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:52,590
where we built those steps with
steel rods going away from the camera
281
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,831
so you couldn't see them, so that Joe could walk
on the steps and they would give a little bit
282
00:20:57,881 --> 00:21:01,964
he couldn't really do that with special effects,
it was in camera and it looked really great
283
00:21:02,281 --> 00:21:06,322
When they land in Florida, the kids
push on it too and it bounces a little bit,
284
00:21:06,372 --> 00:21:09,710
people wonder how it was done,
and the other thing he helped us with was
285
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,529
the spaceship the way
it floated in some scenes
286
00:21:12,579 --> 00:21:14,990
Well, on the gas station
we had the full-size ship
287
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,513
We shot at Burt Reynolds ranch. We didn't
meet Burt Reynolds but the ranch was cool
288
00:21:19,563 --> 00:21:22,050
It was on like a tow truck that held it
289
00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:26,041
There's a crane that went right into the side of
it, so it looks like it's floating but it's really
290
00:21:26,091 --> 00:21:27,632
suspended from the side
291
00:21:27,682 --> 00:21:32,750
The only thing then, that had to be erased,
was the arm that was holding the ship out
292
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,086
Same thing with - the ship comes out of
a hangar, well
293
00:21:36,136 --> 00:21:39,960
the ship was this size, the only difference
was a perspective shift
294
00:21:40,010 --> 00:21:44,875
so that we had a real building with
two doors... the ship was on a little pole
295
00:21:44,925 --> 00:21:49,659
and the pole came out - one door was real,
the other door was a miniature door
296
00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:54,167
and we just had the ship coming out behind
the door, and it looked like the ship was
297
00:21:54,217 --> 00:21:58,415
200 feet away, and over a bunch of
people, even though it was only this big
298
00:21:58,465 --> 00:22:02,388
an old trick that old movie makers knew
how to do, but today
299
00:22:02,438 --> 00:22:03,760
nobody knows how to do anymore
300
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,070
The idea of the spaceship being mirrored on the
outside, I wanted to do that on the inside too and
301
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,270
everyone said "you're crazy!".
I said "well, if it's difficult...
302
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,830
...that's why no one's done it before"
So we did it
303
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,545
We used this new Mylar material,
where you could put lights behind it
304
00:22:19,595 --> 00:22:23,034
that would shine through, but
they were all practical effects
305
00:22:23,084 --> 00:22:25,070
that you were actually shooting in-camera
306
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,058
and then when you shine light from the
inside out, it was clear
307
00:22:28,108 --> 00:22:30,510
and this is pretty unusual,
this had not been done before
308
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,720
I never saw the ship when I was working.
When I finally saw the ship...
309
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,070
...that was fantastic
310
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:42,510
The ship design was done by a
young artist named Ed Eyth, who I ran into
311
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,311
sitting in the lobby of a VFX house with
his book, he just graduated from Cal Arts,
312
00:22:48,361 --> 00:22:53,442
and I said to him "Hey, hi how are you? What's
that?" and he said "I'm interviewing for a job here"
313
00:22:53,492 --> 00:22:56,836
so he showed me his stuff it was fantastic,
so I hired him right away and he...
314
00:22:56,886 --> 00:23:00,808
he became the main designer of the ship
315
00:23:00,858 --> 00:23:05,057
We talked about the spaceship, Randal was
very open to ideas,
316
00:23:05,107 --> 00:23:07,816
he just said he wanted to be chrome
on the inside, and chrome on the outside
317
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,888
the shape could be anything, the
only other constraint was, and this is
318
00:23:10,938 --> 00:23:13,853
really a common catch phrase in Hollywood,
is they wanted something that had
319
00:23:13,877 --> 00:23:17,677
never been seen before, and the fact that it was
going to be chrome would make it unique enough
320
00:23:17,727 --> 00:23:22,543
I did a page or two of sketches, actually
five or six pages of sketches of thumbnails,
321
00:23:22,593 --> 00:23:27,767
just little studies to explore different
shapes and different configurations for this
322
00:23:27,817 --> 00:23:29,583
It's my favourite part of
the process you're just
323
00:23:29,607 --> 00:23:33,260
coming up with ideas, it's the "what if?" part of
the process - "what if it looked like this?" and
324
00:23:33,284 --> 00:23:34,775
"what if it was shaped like this?"
325
00:23:34,825 --> 00:23:38,451
Went in, met with Randal again, showed him
the drawings and he said "yeah, these..."
326
00:23:38,501 --> 00:23:41,880
There's a lot here, I just need some
time to think about it" so
327
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:45,200
I called back in met with Randal again
a few days later and he said "Okay..."
328
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,532
"I showed these to Spielberg..." and I said
"Wait a minute, you showed these to who?"
329
00:23:50,582 --> 00:23:55,814
And I just couldn't believe it, that the
first sketches I put a marker to paper on
330
00:23:55,864 --> 00:23:59,035
went, you know, to Randal and
then they went to Steven Spielberg
331
00:23:59,085 --> 00:24:02,912
Started sketching more... at some
point we decided okay, with the spaceship
332
00:24:02,962 --> 00:24:06,062
maybe it's going to be, since it's chrome, why don't
we just make it like a blob of mercury so it can
333
00:24:06,086 --> 00:24:10,510
change shapes, which makes it even more
innovative, and more never been seen before, so
334
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,264
I had to design these variations on the shape
of the ship and I decided if it was rounded
335
00:24:15,314 --> 00:24:20,535
in it's stationary form, then maybe when it takes
off and goes faster it gets more aerodynamic
336
00:24:20,585 --> 00:24:24,124
and then at some point I realized if this is
mercury, we should do something with the door
337
00:24:24,148 --> 00:24:28,389
Instead of just having a door open, or a door
on hinges, I thought wouldn't be great if just
338
00:24:28,439 --> 00:24:32,594
part of the wall the ship just sort of
melted down and became these stairs
339
00:24:32,644 --> 00:24:34,324
that he could walk up to get into the ship
340
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,470
One of my most favourite
scenes inside the spaceship,
341
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,230
that I really am proud of
342
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,105
So when we're driving in the desert, and all
of a sudden that... the red mustang pulls up
343
00:24:49,155 --> 00:24:53,687
and we're kind of following it, like
"oh what?" and uh... and David goes
344
00:24:53,737 --> 00:24:57,031
"I wonder if that's that Twisted
Sister stuff Carolyn was talking about?"
345
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,574
I actually made that line up
346
00:24:58,624 --> 00:25:03,080
Before that it was just a big long
gap, we were kind of following and stuff
347
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:08,664
and I said "Hey Randal, what if I said hey is that
that Twisted Sister stuff?" and he said cool great
348
00:25:08,714 --> 00:25:13,520
I was auditioning for two different roles, believe
it or not. I was auditioning for Jennifer Bradley,
349
00:25:13,570 --> 00:25:16,735
and for Carolyn, but young Carolyn and
350
00:25:16,785 --> 00:25:18,604
in the script there was a...
351
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,430
there was a portion of the movie at the end
that was young Carolyn when he comes back,
352
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,017
so I auditioned for both roles, and I
specifically remember
353
00:25:28,067 --> 00:25:32,087
I was in a McDonald's for the young Carolyn
role like, that's... that was my setting
354
00:25:32,137 --> 00:25:35,603
I think maybe three months went by
after the audition
355
00:25:35,653 --> 00:25:39,418
when we got the call that I
actually got the part of Jennifer Bradley,
356
00:25:39,468 --> 00:25:43,035
and at the time I didn't know that young
Carolyn was not going to be in the film
357
00:25:43,085 --> 00:25:45,230
I did find that out once we got on set
358
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,197
Those are the closest memories that
come to me about the film
359
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,147
was spending time with Sarah Jessica Parker
who just knocked me out as a human being
360
00:25:54,197 --> 00:26:00,432
(laughs) That grin... oh it was...
it was awesome
361
00:26:00,482 --> 00:26:04,941
I remember her having a hard time because they
had to light up that piece of purple hair,
362
00:26:04,991 --> 00:26:08,239
...couldn't quite get it right so that
was probably the most difficult part
363
00:26:08,289 --> 00:26:11,371
Then there's that scene where she's like
"You know, you're cute..."
364
00:26:11,421 --> 00:26:13,280
"...did a girl ever tell you that before?"
365
00:26:14,483 --> 00:26:18,001
"Nobody but my mom,
but I don't think she counts"
366
00:26:18,051 --> 00:26:21,120
and I've just got this look on my face...
367
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,150
Oh wow, yeah... yeah... it was... uh...
it was fun
368
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,950
One day, Randal came over to me and he said
"I've been trying to cast a doctor in the movie"
369
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,819
So I said "Okay, well... so?"
370
00:26:33,869 --> 00:26:37,870
And he said "Well, all the doctors
here, they all look like pharmacists..."
371
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,310
"...but you look like a doctor"
372
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:44,110
Howard Hesseman and I have to tell
the parents what we know about the child
373
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,661
It's outside the hospital
374
00:26:45,711 --> 00:26:49,390
"This hospital is not prepared to offer,
am I correct doctor?"
375
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,305
My family had always wanted me to be a
doctor all my life so
376
00:26:52,355 --> 00:26:55,874
When I finally came out in the
movie I told my mother, I said "Well..."
377
00:26:55,924 --> 00:26:59,882
"...you finally get to see me as a doctor"
This is a... this was an important moment
378
00:26:59,932 --> 00:27:01,780
"Could I see you outside
for a few minutes, please?"
379
00:27:01,804 --> 00:27:07,023
It was the hospital scenes that were
the crux of my story about me and David
380
00:27:07,073 --> 00:27:11,487
I first come back and, you know,
"What happened to you mom? You too dad?"
381
00:27:11,537 --> 00:27:14,211
"Where have you been all this time?"
- "All this time?"
382
00:27:14,261 --> 00:27:15,719
"All this time?"
383
00:27:15,769 --> 00:27:18,960
"I just went to get Jeff at the Johnson's
a few hours ago"
384
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,750
(Stutter) Get Jeff, he'll tell you
385
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,775
I remember I had to re-dub that,
386
00:27:22,825 --> 00:27:26,499
and had to do that exact little stutter...
(stutter)
387
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,070
Over and over till it... till it matched up
388
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,470
get Jeff he'll tell you
389
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,506
I was trying to try to...
390
00:27:34,711 --> 00:27:38,089
...try to just make that
as truthful as possible
391
00:27:38,139 --> 00:27:40,431
and what would that...
what would that be like?
392
00:27:40,481 --> 00:27:44,557
I mean, I have an older brother, and what would
it be like if I walked into a hospital and saw him
393
00:27:44,607 --> 00:27:51,440
as now my young... I mean, it's a
very hard thing to try to... you can't...
394
00:27:51,948 --> 00:27:59,948
You just have to accept that this is the reality
that we're in, and I'm just gonna be his brother
395
00:28:01,598 --> 00:28:05,390
and play this scene, and that's really
what I tried to do, and when I say that
396
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,305
I realized immediately how much
of a better actor Joey was than me,
397
00:28:09,355 --> 00:28:13,870
he was so connected
to that sense of being lost
398
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,670
What could have possibly happened
to lead us to this moment, where I'm
399
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,286
looking at my younger, older brother.
It would be so shocking
400
00:28:22,336 --> 00:28:28,466
"Buttface"
"Scuzzbucket" (laughs)
401
00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:34,430
After "Flight of the Navigator" he was
very much sought after, Disney wanted him
402
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:42,430
I remember being very reticent to do that
because the Brat Pack in Hollywood at that
403
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,550
time, were having all kinds of problems
404
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,839
That was what was really holding me back
from pushing him,
405
00:28:49,889 --> 00:28:55,241
we would have had to move to Los Angeles
and our home was here
406
00:28:55,291 --> 00:28:57,840
But I'm not sorry that we didn't,
407
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,789
'cos Joe got in trouble anyway
(laughs)
408
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,844
It's uh...
409
00:29:09,379 --> 00:29:17,069
Yeah, it's all I could ask for is to
just ugh, still be connected
410
00:29:17,982 --> 00:29:23,305
connection heals shame...
411
00:29:23,686 --> 00:29:29,121
right, that vulnerability, that uh...
412
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,430
...true spark of life by
being vulnerable, by
413
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,530
connecting to people, by risking
414
00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:44,508
creates these pathways for beautiful things
to grow and to
415
00:29:46,769 --> 00:29:48,538
blossom
416
00:29:48,855 --> 00:29:56,855
As scary as it is to change,
being stagnant is so much worse for me
417
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:07,070
My mom moved up from southern California in the
60s, and then in the early 70s she bought a farm
418
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,168
We called it Sleepy
Hollow. It was 75 acres.
419
00:30:10,218 --> 00:30:13,108
Mostly what was on it was shacks,
420
00:30:13,158 --> 00:30:17,740
but one of them was a quite well-built
chicken house
421
00:30:17,790 --> 00:30:23,962
I went inside, took it all apart, I built a
floor in the bottom of it, I painted it all...
422
00:30:24,012 --> 00:30:29,440
and we put a loft in the top, with a
bed up there, and a little tiny stove
423
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,064
and that's where Joe was born
424
00:30:32,952 --> 00:30:36,371
My full name...(laughs)
425
00:30:36,421 --> 00:30:40,741
My full name is
Delirious Joe August Fisher Cramer
426
00:30:40,791 --> 00:30:46,510
My dad, Gary Steven Cramer...
he wanted to name me "Yes"
427
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,815
and Gary's mother said "You can't
call him 'Yes', every time somebody says
428
00:30:49,865 --> 00:30:51,787
'Yes' he'll be turning his head around"
429
00:30:51,837 --> 00:30:55,567
One of his pseudonyms for poetry
and songwriting was 'Delirious Manch'
430
00:30:56,122 --> 00:30:58,510
I mean, this is all very complicated
431
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,470
My mom said "Well how about Delirious?" then
they said "Well, isn't that crazy or delusional?"
432
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,245
I looked up the word
'delirious' in the dictionary,
433
00:31:07,295 --> 00:31:11,421
it said "wild with excitement or joy"
434
00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:17,906
So I decided to spell
Delirious "d-e-I-e-r-i-y-e-s"
435
00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,110
So we got the 'yes' in there
436
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,686
Gary's grandfather, during the time that
I was pregnant, he said
437
00:31:25,736 --> 00:31:30,541
"His name's going to be Joe", he said it
like that, "His name's going to be Joe..."
438
00:31:30,591 --> 00:31:35,439
"...it's going to be a boy and his name is
Joe" Then, he was going to be born in August,
439
00:31:35,489 --> 00:31:38,572
so now it's Delirious Joe August
440
00:31:38,622 --> 00:31:43,200
Fisher, 'cos that's my name and
we weren't married, and Cramer
441
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:50,131
So, we got five names out of it...
it's very hippy ...very hippy (laughs)
442
00:31:50,181 --> 00:31:58,181
It was 1972 and it was the beginning of when
women decided to have kids on their own.
443
00:31:58,673 --> 00:32:01,150
I just decided I wanted to have a kid
444
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,204
I asked one guy and he said
"No, I've already got one..."
445
00:32:06,254 --> 00:32:10,270
So he told his friend, which was Gary
446
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,436
and Gary said "Yeah, I'll do it!"
447
00:32:12,486 --> 00:32:16,101
He really wasn't involved in at all
448
00:32:16,151 --> 00:32:18,990
I never understood why he didn't want
to be around
449
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,355
He was about 20 when he had me... 21.
My mom was 31
450
00:32:23,405 --> 00:32:28,583
I remember him coming for some birthdays,
up until the age of ten maybe?
451
00:32:28,633 --> 00:32:31,373
And then he pretty much disappeared
452
00:32:31,423 --> 00:32:35,073
I started seeing a psychiatrist
when I was younger,
453
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:37,987
but I remember feeling
454
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:40,497
dark
455
00:32:41,195 --> 00:32:46,247
Something I've learned, is that
kids who grow up without a parent,
456
00:32:46,297 --> 00:32:52,389
but especially without a father figure,
tend to steal at young ages
457
00:32:52,439 --> 00:32:57,182
He stole a bunch of smurfs at
the department store at the Bay
458
00:32:57,232 --> 00:33:01,000
I remember being in the aisle, and
filling my pockets... well I went home
459
00:33:01,050 --> 00:33:05,788
and I filled my stocking up, and I
thought "Yeah, Santa will come tomorrow..."
460
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,792
"...and my mom will never know" so,
that's how young I was
461
00:33:09,842 --> 00:33:13,531
I talked to him and he knew it was wrong
462
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,936
He stole things when he was little.
I never knew what to do about that
463
00:33:18,986 --> 00:33:24,996
- When we spoke to Joe he had told us that
even by Navigator, he had started stealing...
464
00:33:25,046 --> 00:33:26,764
- Did you ever have any inclination?
465
00:33:26,814 --> 00:33:30,190
Wow, I had no idea
466
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,830
We were just worried about doing the scenes,
and making sure that his Canadian-isms...
467
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,503
Every once in a while there was an "out" and
a "house", and someone had to say "cut"...
468
00:33:39,553 --> 00:33:47,553
So no, I'm sorry, that didn't occur to me...
did he? Was he doing that at that time? Wow
469
00:33:48,356 --> 00:33:54,480
Honestly, I truly believe that, that
all stemmed from my dad not being around
470
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,022
Years later, I'd reached
out to him for some help
471
00:33:59,072 --> 00:34:02,240
Not financially, I just
wanted somebody to talk to
472
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,375
I just wanted some sort of support
473
00:34:05,425 --> 00:34:07,992
I wanted a dad
474
00:34:08,309 --> 00:34:13,230
I don't remember exactly what I said,
what he said to me...
475
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,309
You think you got problems, kid?
476
00:34:16,817 --> 00:34:19,670
I've got 20 years of problems on you
477
00:34:20,051 --> 00:34:23,105
Don't phone me with your problems
478
00:34:23,155 --> 00:34:24,644
You want to know what to do?
479
00:34:24,694 --> 00:34:29,008
Why don't you do us all a favor, and go
jump off a bridge?
480
00:34:29,058 --> 00:34:32,110
Why don't you just go slit your throat
and wrists?
481
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,548
Do us all a favor and kill yourself
482
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,550
Because I'd always been open and
honest with him, and he'd always been
483
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:51,230
an open and honest little kid, I just assumed
that he would be comfortable talking to me
484
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,490
about anything
485
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:58,563
I was probably in denial about
a lot of things that he was doing
486
00:34:58,613 --> 00:35:02,756
I didn't know how early he had
started drugs until much later
487
00:35:02,806 --> 00:35:06,582
We'd watched ninja movies and sit around
and smoke weed when we were little, and
488
00:35:06,632 --> 00:35:10,589
I remember us looking for
quarters to go play video games and
489
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:14,141
came across this bag of... I thought it
was bulk soap
490
00:35:14,191 --> 00:35:16,320
so I took some of the soap
491
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,874
and that was kind of my first
introduction to... to coke
492
00:35:21,924 --> 00:35:24,764
Like yeah, what - 14, 15?
493
00:35:25,081 --> 00:35:27,437
I was really addicted
494
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,691
Probably, I think, right before
Navigator we moved up here
495
00:35:31,741 --> 00:35:36,104
It was like a real transitional house
where we had these wonderful memories and
496
00:35:36,154 --> 00:35:39,629
this wonderful upbringing and
then things changed. I remember
497
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:43,488
walking the streets
in the rain and drinking
498
00:35:43,538 --> 00:35:47,364
Then I started getting in trouble at school and
I started doing drugs and staying out late, and
499
00:35:47,414 --> 00:35:52,624
I'd sneak out the back window and
go off in the middle of the night, and...
500
00:35:52,674 --> 00:35:54,042
yeah...
501
00:35:54,092 --> 00:36:00,548
Lord Byng was my high school after I finished
Navigator, I didn't really fit in, I was
502
00:36:00,598 --> 00:36:05,560
surprisingly teased for being a conceited
movie star, or like the older guys
503
00:36:05,610 --> 00:36:10,221
would chase me around and throw me
in trash cans and lock me in lockers
504
00:36:10,271 --> 00:36:15,360
You know, I had some friends but to fit in I started
smoking a lot of dope, I started drinking a lot...
505
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,897
I started cutting myself a lot
506
00:36:18,947 --> 00:36:22,106
and burning myself, so that I could feel...
507
00:36:22,156 --> 00:36:23,677
- Watch your step
508
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,714
...something besides what I
was feeling inside, which was just
509
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,657
black
510
00:36:31,707 --> 00:36:33,968
There's one scar here
where I used to put out
511
00:36:34,018 --> 00:36:36,569
cigarettes all the time,
there's two of them there
512
00:36:36,619 --> 00:36:44,619
Um, when I was about 29 or 30,
there's a big long scar there which I...
513
00:36:45,746 --> 00:36:48,720
...I cut myself with a
scalpel and, and um...
514
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,992
Yeah, I almost, I mean... I yeah, so...
515
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,241
Um, again I'm here obviously but...
516
00:36:59,291 --> 00:37:02,339
That's a real scar and he turned it into a
517
00:37:02,389 --> 00:37:06,658
right, a scar on the... on this heart
which I thought was really well placed
518
00:37:06,708 --> 00:37:10,670
The way that the scar comes through the
bone of the... of the wing
519
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,932
Yeah, there's some
more scars in there so...
520
00:37:12,982 --> 00:37:18,190
As long as I can remember, I lied and
I stole, and that turned into my identity
521
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:23,789
From 15 to 18, I was stealing cars.
Lots of cars.
522
00:37:24,233 --> 00:37:27,360
I stole money from my mom all the time
523
00:37:27,614 --> 00:37:33,433
The most stressful things that are coming
to my mind about Joe's teenage years
524
00:37:33,483 --> 00:37:38,458
are remembrances of
not knowing where he was
525
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,510
I suppose he was out of control
526
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,341
I remember Spring Break,
and I didn't sleep for like 13 days
527
00:37:46,391 --> 00:37:50,818
I was doing about seven grams of coke a day
528
00:37:50,868 --> 00:37:55,021
and acid, and I actually
got really heavy into GHB
529
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,229
As far as funding my habit, I
had access to my movie money
530
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,985
He had money because he made the money
531
00:38:04,035 --> 00:38:07,602
I know child stars whose parents
pushed them and
532
00:38:07,652 --> 00:38:10,221
took all their money and
they didn't have anything
533
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:14,091
So, when he asked me for the money...
534
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,101
...he shouldn't have
had it, I realize that now
535
00:38:19,151 --> 00:38:23,564
There was a 10-year
hiatus when he was sober,
536
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,310
except for drinking,
and that was really good
537
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,461
Virtually my problems, that... that serious
538
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:37,947
depression and self-hatred and loathing,
seemed to go away
539
00:38:38,645 --> 00:38:42,969
I went to Maple Ridge Treatment Center.
I had a slip while I was there.
540
00:38:43,019 --> 00:38:48,320
I went back in 2008,
and then I went back in 2010
541
00:38:48,574 --> 00:38:51,172
and that's when I had the most success
542
00:38:51,426 --> 00:38:55,493
I got out of there and I
had got my own apartment
543
00:38:55,543 --> 00:38:57,901
I got a couple of jobs, I was working
544
00:38:57,951 --> 00:39:02,474
and I think it was like the night of my
Step 12, I'd finished my first set of steps,
545
00:39:02,524 --> 00:39:07,416
and I met a girl on the way home and
that was a huge nightmare
546
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:10,479
That's when I first got
introduced to heroin
547
00:39:14,857 --> 00:39:19,728
We're hanging out in Gastown, downtown Vancouver
and it's a beautiful old part of the city
548
00:39:19,982 --> 00:39:24,590
It's grown a lot since I've been here, you know,
the old brick roads and stuff like that and...
549
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,313
- "Is this the trendy bit of town now?"
550
00:39:26,828 --> 00:39:30,000
It's kind of... kind of
like touristy trendy, right?
551
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,658
Oh, I got just, yeah, fall down drunk
in that place once
552
00:39:35,708 --> 00:39:37,068
The Lamplighter
553
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,426
Do I have anything in my teeth?
- "No"
554
00:39:40,743 --> 00:39:44,990
- "Over to our tour guide, Joe.
Where are we, Joe?" (laughs)
555
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,877
All right, so we're downtown Gastown
still, and we're on Cambie and Water and
556
00:39:49,927 --> 00:39:55,790
Interesting fact is this is where I did some of
my first extra work on "The NeverEnding Story",
557
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,510
and I ran across this street back here
558
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,136
so in the film, you can see me and
another kid are running across the street
559
00:40:02,186 --> 00:40:03,411
- "Hey, it's the weirdo"
560
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,270
I think this used to be a place called Sonar,
where I knew all the bartenders and managers
561
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,446
and I'd always be on the list,
and all the good, like...
562
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:15,025
and actually I think it used to be
the Town Pump where like, um...
563
00:40:15,406 --> 00:40:19,969
I think maybe even like, well, my dad used to play
a lot, but Pearl Jam played when they were still
564
00:40:20,019 --> 00:40:22,238
when they called themselves Mookie Blaylock
565
00:40:23,063 --> 00:40:26,745
Here's the infamous alley where I
got to do my first stunt double work
566
00:40:26,795 --> 00:40:30,000
and so "The NeverEnding
Story" and, and uh...
567
00:40:30,508 --> 00:40:33,886
and one of the kids
couldn't make it so we...
568
00:40:33,936 --> 00:40:36,750
they asked me if I could, you know, stand
in for him and
569
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,129
the camera was up on a big crane,
and chased us down the alley, and I had to
570
00:40:41,179 --> 00:40:44,624
dive into the big pile of garbage
next to the dumpster where
571
00:40:44,674 --> 00:40:47,470
Falkor is chasing
us down, right, these bullies...
572
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,792
Ah... Falkor... oh my God...
(laughs)
573
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,854
He'd been through several different rehabs,
several different times
574
00:40:59,904 --> 00:41:05,589
and one of the times that he came out and
was feeling so good,
575
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:11,581
got a hold of some girl who laced his
cigarettes, and that's what got him onto heroin
576
00:41:11,631 --> 00:41:14,950
He didn't like those kinds of drugs at all
577
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,564
I remember him standing saying
"Ugh... I hate this drug..."
578
00:41:19,614 --> 00:41:26,361
You know, just hated it -
because he didn't like being out of control
579
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,166
So every morning I've got to go
to the pharmacy for my methadone
580
00:41:31,216 --> 00:41:33,390
It's to help you get off heroin
581
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,801
It is actually an opiate
582
00:41:35,851 --> 00:41:39,201
Some people they say "Well, if you're on
methadone that you're not really clean..."
583
00:41:39,251 --> 00:41:45,726
Whereas I consider it to be clean because I'm using
a prescription to the right way, and stuff like that
584
00:41:45,776 --> 00:41:48,387
The worst part is the fear of getting sick.
585
00:41:48,437 --> 00:41:54,510
It's something that I always hated because I felt
so powerless over it. It affects your whole body...
586
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,680
You won't die, but you
feel like you're going to.
587
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,970
Once again, he had stolen some
money from my wallet
588
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:06,560
so when he came home, I confronted
him with that
589
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:15,120
and I said, you know, "You're gonna have
to leave, I can't live with you like this"
590
00:42:18,883 --> 00:42:22,381
and he was just so amazing
591
00:42:25,586 --> 00:42:27,540
He said...
592
00:42:30,649 --> 00:42:35,636
"I know you're not kicking me out
mom, because you don't love me..."
593
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:40,334
"I know you're not kicking me out
because you don't love me..."
594
00:42:40,715 --> 00:42:44,640
And he just left
595
00:42:46,083 --> 00:42:49,035
but I knew I had to kick him out
596
00:42:52,386 --> 00:42:55,872
Even though we loved each other...
597
00:42:56,951 --> 00:42:59,945
...I didn't kick him out with hate
598
00:43:01,123 --> 00:43:04,047
I never... I never hated him
599
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,274
I don't remember where he went then
600
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,545
There's only so much a mom can do
601
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,432
So this is one place where I spent a
lot of time where I was living in my car
602
00:43:22,482 --> 00:43:25,861
The morning would come, and those
realizations would come in, and like
603
00:43:25,911 --> 00:43:29,680
"What the hell am I doing?" and "Why
am I here?" and "This can't be my life"
604
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,243
I got into a bunch of crap and...
and screwed up a bunch of my teeth
605
00:43:35,624 --> 00:43:40,732
Some of it I got in some really violent situations,
some got broken, some I just didn't take care of
606
00:43:40,782 --> 00:43:45,337
So for a long time I didn't have any like,
any teeth whatsoever
607
00:43:45,387 --> 00:43:50,435
So I wouldn't get recognised for the
movie for sure, not... not in that state
608
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,630
I couldn't even imagine being
fully on the street with no shelter
609
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,448
Vancouver was really harsh 'cos I didn't have
a car, literally packing a huge bag around
610
00:44:02,466 --> 00:44:10,466
(singing) "Under these bridges religions
are built, but no one pays the tithe..."
611
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,680
"...stretching out the
time only to find..."
612
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,661
"...there ain't much
point in being alive..."
613
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,731
So we're in downtown Vancouver
and I spent some long nights down here
614
00:44:30,781 --> 00:44:33,227
There were some pretty
dark times definitely
615
00:44:33,277 --> 00:44:37,982
But um, there's a with a safe
injection site behind me here where
616
00:44:38,032 --> 00:44:41,737
It's somewhere where you can go to,
you know, to do your drugs and stuff where
617
00:44:41,787 --> 00:44:46,408
you're not on the street, you're not out there
in the elements... not contract diseases...
618
00:44:46,458 --> 00:44:50,723
Make sure that if something happens when
you're doing your drugs, that you don't O.D
619
00:44:51,675 --> 00:44:55,367
When you're in it,
you feel like there's no other way to live
620
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,309
It goes back to wanting to be connected, even
if it's in this, you know, really negative um...
621
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,250
self... self-defeating space, right?
622
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:11,566
'Cos we're all down here just like, you know,
hurting ourselves and feeling horrible and stuff
623
00:45:11,616 --> 00:45:16,370
but you still want that connection, right? Even if it's
through drug use, you're part of a little community
624
00:45:17,449 --> 00:45:21,070
The thing about whether there's
people down here trying to help people,
625
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,590
you can't really help anyone
unless they... unless they want to
626
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,790
It's a huge process getting into rehabs,
627
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,467
there's waiting lists, you can't
just walk in somewhere and do it
628
00:45:31,517 --> 00:45:33,185
Ah, it's heartbreaking
629
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:42,010
(singing) "Walking that road, the only bed that I
laid, was still warm with the life that I betrayed..."
630
00:45:46,188 --> 00:45:50,952
"...I've made mistakes
and that I'll admit..."
631
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,223
"...but I've staked
my life to pay for it..."
632
00:45:57,667 --> 00:46:01,164
My girlfriend at the time and I,
we didn't have a car
633
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,830
We slept under the Sky Train, and made us a
little camp with like, cardboard boxes and a
634
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,159
little shopping cart turned over and
she was always really sick in the morning
635
00:46:11,209 --> 00:46:16,467
We thought she was dope sick.
I'd be running out hustling up heroin...
636
00:46:16,517 --> 00:46:18,000
...and it turned out she was pregnant
637
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,417
When we figured that out, we got into a
recovery house and started to try and clean up
638
00:46:28,467 --> 00:46:33,321
When Celecta was born she tested
positive for coke and methadone
639
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:41,494
I don't believe that she went through any of
the screaming and pain that a lot of babies do
640
00:46:41,544 --> 00:46:43,782
Then we had to figure out what to do
641
00:46:44,099 --> 00:46:49,335
There's no point in me stringing Celecta
along, while I'm going in and out of treatment
642
00:46:49,385 --> 00:46:54,660
and I wanted to get my life together,
so that I could be part of her life then
643
00:46:55,041 --> 00:46:59,120
(singing) "Whoa to give
someone a chance..."
644
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,174
We got the most wonderful foster mother
645
00:47:04,428 --> 00:47:07,534
She's a lucky little girl
646
00:47:08,359 --> 00:47:11,559
She's a really lucky little girl
647
00:47:13,189 --> 00:47:18,638
(singing) "Don't we all deserve love?"
648
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,590
Hi! Okay, so this is the window
to my little room at the VITC
649
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:37,432
This is where I've been living for six months,
and I'll be here for about another six months
650
00:47:37,482 --> 00:47:41,685
Little nice cozy space, but I
brought a nice rug from home
651
00:47:41,735 --> 00:47:47,434
I've got pictures of my daughter,
and one of my favorite pictures too
652
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,781
is this one, I just love it -
it's my mom and Celecta
653
00:47:51,831 --> 00:47:54,080
and I've got my little happy cat,
654
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,164
it just ugh, was sent from my friend
Anna, she's one of my biggest fans
655
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,590
There's certain things that you're not allowed to
have when you're in jail, like crayon, glitter...
656
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:13,783
lip gloss, no nail polish because you can transfer
contraband into into the prison through...
657
00:48:13,833 --> 00:48:18,791
...through, I guess through lip
gloss, and crayons and things like that
658
00:48:18,841 --> 00:48:23,481
I was inside 18 months, and then coming
to a small room, it's really taught me to
659
00:48:23,531 --> 00:48:28,125
appreciate just necessities, not... not what I
want to have to make me feel better but that I...
660
00:48:28,175 --> 00:48:30,830
...I have everything that
I need from the inside
661
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,832
I actually started this at Guthrie, and that's
taking a dry erase marker and writing on the mirror,
662
00:48:36,882 --> 00:48:42,140
so I write things like 'I am health',
'I am joy", 'I am love' and
663
00:48:42,190 --> 00:48:44,173
sometimes I like draw... funny, like a
664
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,777
a happy face or with a mustache and
665
00:48:47,827 --> 00:48:52,273
and then I'd like, look at it and "ho ho!" and then
I'd laugh at myself right, stuff like that, you know
666
00:48:52,323 --> 00:48:56,234
"I love you Joe,
I love you, I love you, I love you"
667
00:48:56,551 --> 00:49:01,063
and it feels weird at first, it really
does feel a little weird at first, but...
668
00:49:01,317 --> 00:49:07,793
...although...not but...although the
more we say it, the better it feels and
669
00:49:08,047 --> 00:49:13,622
I think everybody deserves to feel love
from themselves inside, so, yeah...
670
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,767
I think he was lonely sometimes
671
00:49:17,817 --> 00:49:24,159
I knew that if I went with him to the set,
I would be
672
00:49:24,209 --> 00:49:30,069
on him all the time "do this, do this, do this..."
and I didn't want to interfere in that at all
673
00:49:30,323 --> 00:49:34,966
I know that when they went to Norway, they
took a friend
674
00:49:35,016 --> 00:49:38,317
Joe just called, and then it was like
"Yeah, I want you to come to Norway..."
675
00:49:38,367 --> 00:49:40,430
"Oh hang on a sec,
Dad, can I go to Norway?"
676
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,122
I said "Norway?
Why, I mean, are you kidding?"
677
00:49:43,172 --> 00:49:47,369
One of the producers was Producer Sales
Organization, Mark Damon's company, and
678
00:49:47,419 --> 00:49:50,888
they had blocked funds in Norway, they
had to spend the money in Norway, that was
679
00:49:50,938 --> 00:49:52,291
the only way they could get it out
680
00:49:52,315 --> 00:49:55,376
They said "Well, what could you
shoot of this movie in Norway?"
681
00:49:55,426 --> 00:49:58,990
We thought about it, and then said "Well, we
could do all the interiors of the spaceship"
682
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,822
We went directly from Miami to Oslo,
and it was in February
683
00:50:03,872 --> 00:50:09,230
Have you ever tried to buy a parka in
Fort Lauderdale, Florida?
684
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,876
Well, we all arrived at the airport in
Norway, literally in T-shirts and shorts,
685
00:50:13,926 --> 00:50:18,163
and the people in the airport looked at us
like we were all crazy, you know, it's 30 below
686
00:50:18,213 --> 00:50:20,430
While we were there, we were filming
in a warehouse
687
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,774
and then we'd take a bus for an hour
each day in the winter
688
00:50:23,824 --> 00:50:26,619
We would go in in the morning at say,
seven o'clock in the morning,
689
00:50:26,669 --> 00:50:28,661
we'd come out at six
o'clock in the evening,
690
00:50:28,711 --> 00:50:32,270
we never saw daylight
during the week at all.
691
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,113
When we shot the scenes where Joey was flying
the ship, and we were shooting from behind
692
00:50:36,163 --> 00:50:39,150
we used a Norwegian boy who
didn't speak English.
693
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,633
I had to time his movements to the back
projection, so that he would move to the right when
694
00:50:44,683 --> 00:50:49,222
the ship went to the right, and to the left, so it went
right, and then they'd translate it into Norwegian,
695
00:50:49,272 --> 00:50:54,472
and by the time they did, he was left, and so
that was very, very complicated trying to work out
696
00:50:54,725 --> 00:50:56,590
telling the kid which way to move
697
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,814
The set was amazing, I remember
wanting to take it home with me
698
00:51:00,864 --> 00:51:03,805
and like, build it in a
garage or something 'cos
699
00:51:03,855 --> 00:51:07,026
it was basically, the whole inside of the
ship was all real
700
00:51:07,076 --> 00:51:11,310
In the floor, the chair came up -
just popped up out of the ground, and
701
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,350
Max hanging down was on a trolley,
702
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,150
and even in his eye - it lit up
703
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:22,830
Then the wall, it was right there - they pulled
the front off and there was the setup of all the
704
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,707
little creatures all puppeted from behind
- "What are these?"
705
00:51:27,024 --> 00:51:29,070
The uh, creatures which
were just so much fun
706
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,873
I think I did several dozen creatures that
Randal picked out the ones he liked
707
00:51:33,923 --> 00:51:35,873
It was just a wonderful
first film to work on
708
00:51:35,923 --> 00:51:42,000
I was the head puppeteer, I was
the principal manipulator of Max
709
00:51:42,050 --> 00:51:49,888
I was the assistant puppeteer on Max, and
the puppeteer for this guy - the Puckmarin
710
00:51:49,938 --> 00:51:55,720
So, I did his voice and I also helped puppeteer
the creatures in the lab on the spaceship
711
00:51:56,545 --> 00:52:00,430
Funny story, the really
weird little slimy creature...
712
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,310
That was one of my favorite things to work,
I did that...
713
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,030
He's very proud of it
- Yes, I'm very proud of it
714
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:12,430
We covered with Purell hair
lotion, and KY... other lotion
715
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,954
I don't know if I should say this but,
originally it was going to be the sex worm
716
00:52:16,004 --> 00:52:22,196
It was supposed to be a sexual
thing but um, they changed it to a cold
717
00:52:22,246 --> 00:52:24,270
to get it through the Disney group
718
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,751
- "He's got a cold..."
- "Ew, gross"
719
00:52:27,801 --> 00:52:30,830
We had just come off another film
called "Short Circuit"
720
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,976
He did the voice for the robot "Short
Circuit" - "I think the chauffeur did it"
721
00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:37,507
and did the mouth, I did the eyes,
722
00:52:37,557 --> 00:52:42,670
so we had really gotten a lot of training
how to be a robot
723
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:48,385
It was a small set, and we had
four weeks to really get into this
724
00:52:48,435 --> 00:52:53,390
Tim had more to worry about with the
Puckmarin, which was a brand new character
725
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,550
The Puckmarin, wow, yeah I mean he
was incredible
726
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:04,088
This by the way is not an actual
Puckmarin puppet - a fan made this for Joey
727
00:53:04,138 --> 00:53:10,118
It was so neat, it was like these pulleys to
move his eyes and his eyebrows, and his mouth
728
00:53:10,168 --> 00:53:14,172
He was small, you couldn't understand
him and he was kind of cute, so
729
00:53:14,222 --> 00:53:18,303
I just kind of... tried to find
an alien sounding kind of...
730
00:53:18,353 --> 00:53:23,150
...thing and then...kind of gibberish
him into a into a cute character that was
731
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:31,200
(puckmarin sounds)
732
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,470
Remember when I'm looking at
the cool creatures and stuff and,
733
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:40,251
and then I turn and that one guy grabs
my hat, and he bites it off and he's like
734
00:53:40,301 --> 00:53:43,040
(chomping sounds)
735
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,381
And then the thing goes (burps) and it does
that huge long burp?
736
00:53:47,431 --> 00:53:49,403
Well, that was me
737
00:53:49,453 --> 00:53:50,702
(burp sound)
738
00:53:50,752 --> 00:53:56,601
I think that they maybe toned it down a little
bit, 'cos I had a pretty high pitched voice
739
00:53:57,236 --> 00:54:03,150
But uh, but still I did a really good nasty
long burp, and then they... they used it
740
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,222
At that point, they didn't have a
lot of technology to remove strings
741
00:54:08,272 --> 00:54:11,500
There's a spindly kind of character
that was marionetted,
742
00:54:11,550 --> 00:54:15,668
we used monofilament to make him move, he was kind
of like a thing and he moved around like this,
743
00:54:15,718 --> 00:54:21,440
and they used some mist or smoke to kind
of help with making the strings disappear
744
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,590
Max was a challenge because he was the
star of the show
745
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,710
He really was this alien character that,
even though it was also chrome, and also
746
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,870
harmonized visually with the interior of the
ship, he had to be able to emote and perform
747
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:39,950
so that's when the suggestion for making
the interior of the glass orb on his face,
748
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,072
animate and get video projections in
there, and have some things happening
749
00:54:43,122 --> 00:54:47,150
that make it a little bit more interesting
than just a static puppeted character
750
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,208
The scene where Joey
and Max come face to face
751
00:54:51,258 --> 00:54:54,990
was done with the character
operated from above
752
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:00,266
That scene had to be choreographed a little
more carefully than the others
753
00:55:00,316 --> 00:55:02,350
with the camera at the very end
754
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,839
There were two grips that helped to
move Max around the spaceship
755
00:55:06,889 --> 00:55:13,113
We were about eight feet above where
Joey was sitting on an elevated stage,
756
00:55:13,163 --> 00:55:16,177
so we were about 14, 15 feet off the ground
757
00:55:16,227 --> 00:55:21,870
There was a platform that spanned the whole
set, and it was on dollies and a track
758
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,235
so you had grips moving the front to
back, and a grip moving side to side
759
00:55:26,285 --> 00:55:28,270
and they had to memorize their marks
760
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,150
- "You are, the Navigator!"
761
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,636
"You are the Navigator!" and the first time
we did that scene,
762
00:55:36,686 --> 00:55:40,574
they didn't have quite control of
the uh, trolley,
763
00:55:40,828 --> 00:55:43,102
and it started coming, and coming,
and coming,
764
00:55:43,152 --> 00:55:46,987
and I was like "oh!"
- I slid down in my seat and it went 'whip!' right over my
765
00:55:47,037 --> 00:55:48,430
head, we were like "woah!" so...
766
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,173
I think there was also a time
we made a foam mock-up of Max
767
00:55:52,223 --> 00:55:57,645
We had a duplicate hand puppet, so I
would be crouched down around Joey's feet
768
00:55:57,695 --> 00:56:01,004
and trying to stay out of the way, and
769
00:56:01,054 --> 00:56:04,739
we would do the close-ups of Max and Joey
with this small hand puppet
770
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:08,903
I was assisting him on Max,
and I think I was helping with the...
771
00:56:08,953 --> 00:56:12,916
there was a sliding... finding what looked
like what emotion
772
00:56:13,214 --> 00:56:16,939
'cos he was... he just basically had these
things that went like this... and like this...
773
00:56:16,989 --> 00:56:21,390
that's your sort of limited toolbox for trying to...
- Give him character
774
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,330
- "Okay turkey, you fly it"
775
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:29,537
And after the mind-meld transfer he got
very loosey-goosey with his
776
00:56:29,587 --> 00:56:31,470
and into 'Pee-wee Herman' esque
777
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,190
- "That's it?"
- "That's it, Davey!"
778
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:38,498
When we filmed, I did the
voice - it's called a 'scratch track'
779
00:56:38,548 --> 00:56:43,350
When we tried to get the voice of the
Navigator, we tried all kinds of stuff including
780
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,190
those machines that people use who have
lost their voices
781
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:49,230
We didn't really know what the
sound of that voice was going to be
782
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,630
We tried speeding things up...
slowing them down...
783
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:57,070
but we knew we wanted something kid-like
and fun, and something that could change
784
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:02,190
I saw "Pee-wee's Playhouse" and I thought "wow,
maybe Paul Reubens would be good for this?"
785
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,230
- "...but when you're finished
I'm sure it'll be beautiful... ha ha"
786
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,138
In the earlier portions of their
relationship, I was noting last night,
787
00:57:10,455 --> 00:57:13,842
he's working very nicely to create a
different voice
788
00:57:13,892 --> 00:57:15,790
So the voice starts one way...
789
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,390
- "Protective hover is advised"
790
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,895
...and then it gradually turns into
Paul Reuben's voice as
791
00:57:21,945 --> 00:57:24,772
this ship is beginning
to get into the kid's head
792
00:57:24,822 --> 00:57:29,070
When he starts to get
loose, you know who it is!
793
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,750
- (laughing)
794
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,790
I'd be happy to shake hands with Paul Reubens
no matter what shape he materialized in
795
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:43,012
Compliance!
796
00:57:43,062 --> 00:57:47,451
Randal had asked me "Hey, do
you think that you would want to maybe...
797
00:57:48,306 --> 00:57:50,818
...be the voice of the Navigator?"
798
00:57:50,868 --> 00:57:53,165
And I don't know why that occurred to him,
maybe he had decided
799
00:57:53,189 --> 00:57:55,878
maybe the voice should be someone
that he knew, maybe?
800
00:57:56,766 --> 00:58:02,029
And I was so excited, and we went in and we did
a bunch of voice over recordings and then he
801
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:05,249
ended up going with Paul,
so that was disappointing to me
802
00:58:05,299 --> 00:58:09,741
but I knew that that was going to happen... he
asked... what was the song that they sing in the...?
803
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,452
The Beach Boys song... I was
singing that in this studio and I was like
804
00:58:15,502 --> 00:58:17,475
"Wow, I'm really singing this badly"
805
00:58:17,525 --> 00:58:19,630
and I was like "maybe that's
what sunk me"
806
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,720
- "How important was music to the film?"
807
00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:23,470
Oh, I think music was greatly important
808
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,830
I think Alan Silvestri
did... he did a fantastic job
809
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,830
It was a short schedule, we didn't
have time or budget to do a big orchestra
810
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,002
and Alan was willing to do it all with
synthesizers, and so we thought
811
00:58:35,052 --> 00:58:40,110
"Since it's a space movie, why not use
synthesizer?" So I think it was all synth
812
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,054
He's done all the Marvel movies now, right?
- He has
813
00:58:43,104 --> 00:58:44,110
and he has an orchestra
814
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,470
One of my favorite scenes is when he's
flying around listening to The Beach Boys
815
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,870
We had to have that song, and we
knew that early on
816
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,527
We were afraid we wouldn't be able to afford
it, Disney wasn't sure they wanted to pay for it
817
00:58:54,577 --> 00:58:58,720
Randal and I kept leaning on them and they
finally... they gave us the right to that
818
00:58:58,974 --> 00:59:02,229
- (singing) "I'm getting bugged driving
up and down the same old strip..."
819
00:59:02,279 --> 00:59:05,390
"...I gotta find a new place where they
kids are hip..."
820
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,870
When we were filming it, they were like "Joe,
have you practiced your singing uh, scene?"
821
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,776
And he's like "yeah, yeah I've been
practicing" and I didn't know he'd been
822
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,822
practicing, or I didn't know anything
about it but my ears perked up, I was like
823
00:59:15,846 --> 00:59:18,510
"Oooh, Joe's gonna
sing, so this will be cool!"
824
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,901
It was mostly just
lip-syncing and singing along
825
00:59:20,951 --> 00:59:25,632
He was kind of dancing and pushing
the... all the things in the ship around...
826
00:59:25,682 --> 00:59:27,496
I don't know if that
even made it into the film
827
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:35,520
- (singing) "I Get Around..."
828
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,310
I was always happy when he was in
jail, because I knew he'd get fed and
829
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,165
he was off the street
830
00:59:59,677 --> 01:00:07,677
Up until this last time, every time I went to
jail yeah... I pretty much knew I'd be back
831
01:00:10,174 --> 01:00:13,512
They don't make it easy to
come out and succeed
832
01:00:14,020 --> 01:00:16,455
So this was basically the
833
01:00:16,505 --> 01:00:22,656
third time that I'd really done a significant
amount of time - I got six months one time,
834
01:00:22,706 --> 01:00:27,345
I got six months another time, and
then I did this two years less a day, but
835
01:00:27,395 --> 01:00:33,175
in between there, there were little bits where
maybe I went away for a week, or a few days, or
836
01:00:33,225 --> 01:00:35,280
kind of in and out numerous times
837
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:42,990
So the Guthrie Therapeutic Community is based
inside NCC: Nanaimo Corrections Center, it's
838
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,634
actually fenced off
from the main population
839
01:00:46,684 --> 01:00:51,430
I think as a center we believe that everybody
matters, everybody should have a chance
840
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,425
that hoping and believing in someone
can be the very thing that they need
841
01:00:56,475 --> 01:01:01,720
to see that change is possible for them, and giving
them every opportunity to make good decisions
842
01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:04,133
is part of what we do here
843
01:01:05,212 --> 01:01:09,550
This main room that we're in is where we'd
have our morning meetings, and evening meetings
844
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,030
The morning meeting would be like our
morning philosophy, and then we have
845
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:18,409
a board where we go through news, weather and
sports - just kind of getting used to chit chat
846
01:01:18,459 --> 01:01:24,474
Guthrie is based in stages,
like, so you have orientation phase then...
847
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,380
What's it called? What's the middle
phase called? Primary, right (laughs)
848
01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:36,158
We've got orientation phase, then primary phase,
and then re-entry phase, so it's going through
849
01:01:36,208 --> 01:01:40,364
um, you know getting used to being here and
being in a community, and how this program works
850
01:01:40,414 --> 01:01:44,750
getting used to thinking different
ways than just being in a jail mentality,
851
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,710
and then the primary phase where you're really
getting into the classes about guilt and shame, and
852
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:55,182
forgiveness, and then the re-entry phase which is
getting yourself ready to be back in the community
853
01:01:55,232 --> 01:01:58,674
Yeah, we'll get the gist
of what a room was like...
854
01:01:58,724 --> 01:02:02,670
Often you're dealt with on a last
name basis, or by your number
855
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,744
Here at Guthrie it's so cool because we're
on a first name basis with each other, with
856
01:02:06,794 --> 01:02:10,990
the counselors - actually connected with
the people that you're incarcerated with
857
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,369
It's like there's still humanity there that
can be shared right, on both... both ends
858
01:02:17,321 --> 01:02:21,942
I don't know if it's like, comfortable
coming back but it gets to be a habit and it
859
01:02:21,992 --> 01:02:23,489
gets to be familiar
860
01:02:23,539 --> 01:02:27,150
I was here with guys who had been
in and out of jail for most of their lives
861
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:33,174
It's scary, change is scary, I mean for
anyone whether it's, right, a stock broker or
862
01:02:33,224 --> 01:02:38,479
you know, a mom or you know, a criminal
or addict - it doesn't really matter
863
01:02:38,529 --> 01:02:43,152
change is hard and scary, for moving
from job to job, or a home or whatever, so
864
01:02:43,202 --> 01:02:46,171
when you get familiar and comfortable it's
easy to get
865
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,871
used to it, and feel like
that's the only way to live
866
01:02:49,921 --> 01:02:52,110
and feel like there's no other way out
867
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,406
That snowballing in that negative
way where it's
868
01:02:55,456 --> 01:02:59,438
you know, it's just from one crime to
the other, or one fix to the other, or one
869
01:02:59,488 --> 01:03:01,790
you know, mistake or... yeah
870
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:09,840
(piano playing)
871
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,160
Ah, I need to practice more!
872
01:03:23,210 --> 01:03:27,757
So that was my house right there
- my window with the gray, right...
873
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:33,868
This is Guthrie - it's pretty
cool, pretty cool! Yeah
874
01:03:33,918 --> 01:03:38,354
Because of our environment, because of the type
of jail we are with medium and open custody
875
01:03:38,404 --> 01:03:42,735
men can have opportunities to go
for a walk, just be outside in fresh air
876
01:03:42,785 --> 01:03:48,499
just be outside in fresh air a center that has cells and
big heavy metal doors it's very different how that feels
877
01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:52,183
This environment allows
them, I think, to feel safe
878
01:03:52,233 --> 01:03:55,760
We're there to support them, and to
help, them try and change their lives
879
01:03:56,331 --> 01:03:58,190
When we have our alumni come back,
880
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,424
especially a success story - someone who's
doing well in the community
881
01:04:01,474 --> 01:04:04,933
Them coming back and sharing
the experience that they've had
882
01:04:04,983 --> 01:04:09,535
since their release, and giving these other
guys motivation saying, like, "Hey..."
883
01:04:09,585 --> 01:04:12,233
"...if this guy can do it, so can I"
884
01:04:12,283 --> 01:04:15,581
It just kind of gives them
a sense of relief in terms of
885
01:04:15,631 --> 01:04:17,700
what they're putting their time into
886
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:21,274
A lot of people who did see
the movie knew who Joe was, so
887
01:04:21,298 --> 01:04:23,775
they got to see that it
can happen to anybody
888
01:04:23,825 --> 01:04:26,816
and the fact that he still comes back is...
is huge
889
01:04:26,866 --> 01:04:31,520
A lot of respect in terms of showing
support for the community that supported him
890
01:04:32,281 --> 01:04:34,585
This was my job for many months
891
01:04:34,635 --> 01:04:38,836
I got to just do the zen of laundry
and you know, folding clothes, but also
892
01:04:38,886 --> 01:04:43,555
I could sit down here and I could read, or write,
and I wrote a lot of songs down here and there's
893
01:04:43,872 --> 01:04:47,639
fairly like, you know, there's a little
bit of an echo like, decent acoustics
894
01:04:47,689 --> 01:04:51,122
so I would sit down and sometimes
bring a guitar down and play, or
895
01:04:51,172 --> 01:04:53,915
whatever and stuff like that while
I was working...
896
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,419
I don't know if I was allowed to
play guitar while I was working, so
897
01:04:58,469 --> 01:05:02,405
maybe don't... we won't tell that...
no anyway, but... (laughs)
898
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:09,038
- (singing) "Well there is
something I have learned..."
899
01:05:09,088 --> 01:05:14,096
"...of the virtues I have earned..."
900
01:05:14,146 --> 01:05:18,618
"...What's given free will be returned..."
901
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,719
"...when love has taken over..."
902
01:05:24,734 --> 01:05:27,470
I was kind of a mess
when I first got here, I was
903
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,251
I'd been holding all this stuff
together for years and years, and then
904
01:05:31,301 --> 01:05:36,271
coming in here, I could really just
let go of that guilt, and shame, and
905
01:05:36,321 --> 01:05:39,385
self-loathing, hate... and
all that stuff that was just
906
01:05:39,435 --> 01:05:43,150
burning me up and tearing me apart
inside, and actually get it out there
907
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,030
and release it and... and then rebuild
908
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:54,080
- (singing) "Love... has taken over..."
909
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,633
Yeah, there's always
those... those thoughts, right?
910
01:05:57,683 --> 01:06:01,876
When I've been looking at pictures recently
of me when I was younger, and after the movies
911
01:06:01,926 --> 01:06:06,526
If I had stayed in Hollywood yeah, I
mean I would have been a star I'm sure
912
01:06:06,843 --> 01:06:11,503
And then also I got offered a part on the
Star Trek series - "The Next Generation" as
913
01:06:11,553 --> 01:06:14,950
the Wesley Crusher... which
Will Wheaton, you know...
914
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,030
But I was 14 and I remember
it being 10 years of my life,
915
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,780
Is that where really what I want to be
doing? and...
916
01:06:20,830 --> 01:06:24,976
and at the time I had been in film and
TV for so long, I'd missed my childhood
917
01:06:25,026 --> 01:06:27,004
and I just wanted to be a kid again
918
01:06:27,054 --> 01:06:30,236
I figured "Oh well, the right
thing to do is finish high school..."
919
01:06:30,286 --> 01:06:33,164
"...and then get back into acting if not"
Right? So...
920
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:39,724
Sometimes I think yeah... I mean oh, if I
had stayed in movies I would have you know,
921
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,448
made a million dollars, or whatever it was
922
01:06:42,498 --> 01:06:47,040
At the same time, the way
my trajectory went I... I don't...
923
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,270
Had I moved to LA by myself, unless I had
a really good mentor or someone around,
924
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,800
I'm pretty sure that I would probably
be dead by now
925
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,888
- (singing) "...has taken over..."
926
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,555
Do I wish that I could take things back?
927
01:07:04,605 --> 01:07:10,964
Like, if I could have not committed a crime,
and still come here for the amount of time...
928
01:07:11,014 --> 01:07:13,715
...I would have,
I mean I remember phoning,
929
01:07:13,765 --> 01:07:16,903
and I think I talked to Dana and was like
"Can I just come to your program?"
930
01:07:16,953 --> 01:07:21,180
She's like "well no, it's based in the
correction, you have to be incarcerated" and
931
01:07:21,230 --> 01:07:24,518
that was like a year or so before I
actually committed the crime but it
932
01:07:24,568 --> 01:07:32,568
kind of planted the seed "well, maybe I just
need to get put away for a decent amount of time"
933
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,830
We're gonna go, I guess
around the corner to... and
934
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,297
I'll just kind of show
you where the bank was
935
01:07:41,347 --> 01:07:45,204
and I haven't been back here since...
since that infamous day
936
01:07:45,254 --> 01:07:52,717
I was so at a loss, I just so didn't... I was
so frustrated and I was so angry at myself
937
01:07:52,767 --> 01:07:54,243
and I was so sad
938
01:07:54,293 --> 01:07:59,950
Well, what can I do to either, maybe get
myself a whack of cash so that then I could
939
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,551
pay for treatment?
940
01:08:01,601 --> 01:08:04,221
I didn't want to go to a 35-day program,
941
01:08:04,271 --> 01:08:08,110
or even a three-month program,
I wanted to go to like a year program
942
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:12,750
So I'm grateful that it's actually
a holiday Monday, and the bank isn't open
943
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,550
I just started feeling
more and more hopeless,
944
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:22,600
more and more handcuffed,
backed into a wall like, just at my wits
945
01:08:22,650 --> 01:08:25,390
I was very suicidal
946
01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:31,084
I don't think that I would really be recognizable
now, per se, because I look so different
947
01:08:31,134 --> 01:08:34,348
I just wanted to get a whole
bunch of heroin and just kill myself
948
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,950
and I remembered about the Guthrie
program, in Nanaimo Corrections,
949
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:45,267
and I thought that was basically like
my only option to get clean
950
01:08:46,092 --> 01:08:47,950
So I started looking up crimes
951
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,118
I was on methadone at the time
952
01:08:50,372 --> 01:08:53,799
I think if anything, that I was probably...
953
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,017
...that I'd probably smoke some crack
954
01:08:56,271 --> 01:09:03,487
I didn't want to do it violently, and I can't
remember exactly why I chose the day that I did or
955
01:09:03,537 --> 01:09:05,828
what happened or anything, I just...
956
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:08,665
I just finally did it
957
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,373
I don't know how I feel, I...
I mean I feel...
958
01:09:14,423 --> 01:09:21,655
I felt like bad for people
who loved the movie
959
01:09:23,596 --> 01:09:25,537
(crying)
960
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:39,548
And I just...
I've just been really messed up
961
01:09:42,466 --> 01:09:50,138
and I felt horrible when, when I read
that the poor woman was terrified
962
01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:59,196
It's not just a story about a kid actor
that goes to jail, it's about what happened
963
01:09:59,246 --> 01:10:02,572
I wrote a letter, an apology letter, to her
964
01:10:02,622 --> 01:10:06,519
I tried to get it to her, I don't know
if it ever got to her though
965
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:12,430
Those choices seem so silly to anybody who's
clean, and has been all their life, but
966
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:16,217
if you've ever been in that
position, it's not a far reach
967
01:10:16,267 --> 01:10:19,722
When I saw what had
happened, my heart broke
968
01:10:19,772 --> 01:10:26,190
I was upset for him, and angry
at the industry for letting it happen
969
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:30,579
It's a tough life being an actor,
and as a kid actor it's double
970
01:10:30,629 --> 01:10:33,459
Yes it's the old story,
but it's a true story
971
01:10:33,509 --> 01:10:35,816
Oh, you're hot when you're hot, and
you're not when you're not, and
972
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,363
when you're cute and you're young,
and you're adorable and you're fresh, and
973
01:10:38,387 --> 01:10:41,540
you're doing a movie and, you know, everybody's
all over you, and then 10 years later
974
01:10:41,564 --> 01:10:44,677
you're not that cute little
adorable child any longer, and
975
01:10:44,727 --> 01:10:47,469
somehow you know, you don't have a
slot that you fit into
976
01:10:47,519 --> 01:10:50,990
I think child actors always have problems
977
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,026
A lot is expected of them, and they're
working in a field that is totally unreal
978
01:10:56,076 --> 01:11:00,403
That becomes part of your growth experience,
and you think that's the way life is going to be
979
01:11:00,453 --> 01:11:04,270
and life isn't going to be that
way, it's a very unforgiving business
980
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,230
I think Joey was on the verge of massive
stardom, to be honest
981
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:13,099
but it's very easy sometimes to
zig when you should have zagged
982
01:11:13,607 --> 01:11:17,550
I think it's a very
difficult way to grow up
983
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:23,492
It's the rare child, I would say, that comes
through the experience of having been a child actor
984
01:11:23,542 --> 01:11:25,943
and doesn't suffer some consequence of it
985
01:11:25,993 --> 01:11:29,550
There's very few of us that have
ever made the transition
986
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,044
It happens, but not often, and I think it's
particularly hard on kids
987
01:11:34,425 --> 01:11:38,826
I would think that the issues around
the industry, in kids are
988
01:11:38,876 --> 01:11:41,496
a sense of normalcy,
and what is normal when you're a kid?
989
01:11:41,546 --> 01:11:46,174
There's so many areas in our
lives where we have to have training,
990
01:11:46,224 --> 01:11:48,029
It was missing there in the movies
991
01:11:48,079 --> 01:11:51,292
It is a stereotype, but it's a stereotype
for a reason, it's
992
01:11:51,316 --> 01:11:58,318
story after story of kids who are
expected to be adults,
993
01:11:58,368 --> 01:12:02,990
and are treated as adults, far earlier
than they should be treated as adults
994
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,959
One of the worst things that can happen to a child
prodigy, or a child singer, or a child actor,
995
01:12:09,009 --> 01:12:10,717
is they grow up
996
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,950
You see, when they're young everybody's going
"You should hear this kid play the piano, you
997
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:20,030
"...should hear this kid, they are incredible" and
they get all that attention because they're a child
998
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:28,080
and so the unique aura that is around a
child, when they're an adult, that disappears
999
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,353
and that can be especially brutal
when you've made your life being a child,
1000
01:12:32,403 --> 01:12:34,444
and everybody loved you as a child
1001
01:12:34,494 --> 01:12:40,187
It's almost like being typecast
as a kid, and you grow out of being a kid
1002
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,812
He has access to something that I don't,
1003
01:12:43,862 --> 01:12:47,268
and maybe that
vulnerability was a liability
1004
01:12:47,318 --> 01:12:51,584
in dealing with what we all
know is true about this business
1005
01:12:51,634 --> 01:12:59,150
and when it's stymied, when it's resisted
by the real world
1006
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:00,631
...it beats you up
1007
01:13:00,681 --> 01:13:08,270
It's easy to understand turning towards some
kind of relief, whether it's meditation or drugs,
1008
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,455
or simply acting out, aberrant behavior
1009
01:13:11,505 --> 01:13:16,965
Any combination of those makes life hell, not
only for yourself, but for others around you
1010
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:18,875
But I'm not a psychiatrist...
1011
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,731
I'm just a former drug user
1012
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,950
So I was going through my stuff today, and
I found an old picture of me and my aunt and
1013
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,718
uncle from 2006 at my my dad's funeral
1014
01:13:39,099 --> 01:13:41,563
It reminded me that, um...
1015
01:13:42,197 --> 01:13:44,938
regardless of... of
1016
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:50,320
the little time we'd spent together during
my life um,
1017
01:13:50,370 --> 01:13:55,887
the first time I went to rehab in 2005, I
reached out to him and he actually came, uh
1018
01:13:55,937 --> 01:13:59,923
met up for a family
counseling session thing,
1019
01:13:59,973 --> 01:14:06,943
and then once I was released, he offered me
to come and stay with him on Galliano Island
1020
01:14:06,993 --> 01:14:12,909
I connected with my dad, and went and lived
with him for the six months while he was dying
1021
01:14:12,959 --> 01:14:20,938
and I finally started to see and
understand, kind of, why he was emotionally
1022
01:14:20,988 --> 01:14:24,030
unavailable for me - he
shared things about his
1023
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,350
childhood and... and his life
1024
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:32,777
It created some closure when he
did pass away, and I realized that
1025
01:14:32,827 --> 01:14:37,885
you know, I was... I was there holding
his hand when he died, and I realized that
1026
01:14:37,935 --> 01:14:45,674
he was there for me when I was born,
and I was there for him when he died, so...
1027
01:14:45,724 --> 01:14:48,381
...pretty uh, special thing
1028
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,790
When I first got released, I went straight
to Vancouver Island Therapeutic Community
1029
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:04,590
and I spent almost nine months there, and
that's like the sister program to Guthrie
1030
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:09,762
Now, I've had the opportunity to move into
this house, so it's kind of a third stage
1031
01:15:09,812 --> 01:15:13,442
We're a lot more independent, taking
care of ourselves, going to school,
1032
01:15:13,492 --> 01:15:15,630
getting a job, get all our own groceries
1033
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:19,047
and you can pretty much stay here as
long as you need to
1034
01:15:19,097 --> 01:15:22,416
Generally, like a three to four
year, you know, window to...
1035
01:15:22,466 --> 01:15:25,550
to really get fully integrated
back into the community
1036
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,950
I live with four other guys who are...
also have been through the program and
1037
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,352
I had one roommate who, he had a bit
of a slip and, you know, and relapsed and
1038
01:15:34,402 --> 01:15:40,000
ended up going back to VITC for a little
while, so did another four months at VITC
1039
01:15:40,050 --> 01:15:44,515
and then ended up moving back into the third
stage house, and is now doing really well so
1040
01:15:44,565 --> 01:15:50,110
sometimes it takes those... those times of,
you know, of trial and error and...
1041
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:54,551
and learning that it's not a failure
to relapse or to slip up because
1042
01:15:54,601 --> 01:15:58,306
those behaviors and those habits are
so ingrained that
1043
01:15:58,356 --> 01:16:01,389
it ends up being the
normal thing to do, right?
1044
01:16:01,706 --> 01:16:06,033
My goal is to move out on my
own and start acting, and for me
1045
01:16:06,083 --> 01:16:09,573
I want to keep moving forward, and keep
going on to the next stage, and the next
1046
01:16:09,623 --> 01:16:15,754
challenge, and the next goals and keep...
keep uh, keep going
1047
01:16:16,896 --> 01:16:22,510
- So we're going to concentrate on the words
that drive you, and drive your personality
1048
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,583
Hi, my name is Joe Cramer, I'm
represented by Spotlight Academy
1049
01:16:26,633 --> 01:16:30,924
- There's nobody new in this classroom,
you've now all known me for quite some time,
1050
01:16:30,974 --> 01:16:32,066
- some longer than others
1051
01:16:32,116 --> 01:16:38,776
The environment has allowed me to really be
myself, and be vulnerable and be open, and just
1052
01:16:39,157 --> 01:16:40,590
and just do what I love
1053
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,572
You can just see now, you know,
all of those skills coming back
1054
01:16:45,622 --> 01:16:50,510
but now as a man, with all of those
life skills, and all of that maturity
1055
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,670
and all of that beautiful vulnerability,
that most people don't get
1056
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:56,868
and such an understanding of life
1057
01:16:56,918 --> 01:16:59,256
(laughs) Way to go tiger
1058
01:16:59,573 --> 01:17:05,107
Okay, you know what? Let's get going, I want
to make it back down to camp before dark
1059
01:17:05,424 --> 01:17:08,595
We'll stay the night, and then we'll
head back out home tomorrow morning
1060
01:17:08,645 --> 01:17:11,233
Acting is a journey of self-discovery,
1061
01:17:11,283 --> 01:17:15,950
and learning that my experience
is a gift, and that it's not a curse
1062
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,527
What you're doing is inspirational
1063
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,887
You give people hope through your journey
1064
01:17:23,204 --> 01:17:28,870
This is a home that we've created, a safe
environment for you, to be able to feel
1065
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,922
free and to fly... fly with a skill
that you were given as a child
1066
01:17:33,972 --> 01:17:40,000
and now coming back, that flight is
so much more powerful as a man, right? Yeah
1067
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:47,053
I've learned to be humble
enough to ask for help and to say
1068
01:17:47,103 --> 01:17:51,264
"Okay, I put some pretty big blocks in my
path, and I can't move them all on my own"
1069
01:17:51,314 --> 01:17:55,528
I've changed my life, and I believe that
for all people struggling
1070
01:17:55,578 --> 01:18:00,590
We all have the power inside of
us to do it, and make those choices,
1071
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,435
and we don't have to do it alone
1072
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:06,248
I can't ever take back
things that I've done
1073
01:18:06,565 --> 01:18:09,545
I feel like I'm living the life that I was
meant to, now
1074
01:18:09,595 --> 01:18:11,090
Hi Sarah! No (laughs)
1075
01:18:11,407 --> 01:18:16,644
When I went back to high school, and then I didn't
fit in, and I was bullied and I was chased, and
1076
01:18:16,694 --> 01:18:21,142
those memories kind of stuck in my mind,
but now that I'm
1077
01:18:21,192 --> 01:18:26,221
like living, you know, a normal life it's
like, I barely remember the bad times anymore
1078
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:31,149
I know he's grown up, you know, he's
growing up... he's a man
1079
01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:37,240
Now I don't know where he is because he's
busy, not because he's out somewhere doing some
1080
01:18:37,290 --> 01:18:38,455
horrible thing
1081
01:18:38,505 --> 01:18:45,483
and it's just so wonderful to see him
come back into himself again over this
1082
01:18:45,533 --> 01:18:49,025
is it, two years now, he's out?
1083
01:18:49,075 --> 01:18:53,436
Sometimes I think "God, it would
be so easy for him to go back" but
1084
01:18:53,753 --> 01:18:59,520
I really don't think he wants to go back,
I hope... I hope
1085
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,310
- Joe, you're back in Hollywood
1086
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,788
- How does it feel to be back in LA?
1087
01:19:09,838 --> 01:19:15,310
"You know, being back here it's pretty amazing, I
mean Hollywood is like, it's 'Lights, Camera, Action"
1088
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:20,886
I wasn't sure if I was, just kind of
a child actor who looked the part
1089
01:19:20,936 --> 01:19:24,584
and if it was what I was really
meant to do, and after all this time
1090
01:19:24,634 --> 01:19:29,035
I still come back to something that reminded
me, is that it's never too late to be
1091
01:19:29,085 --> 01:19:32,083
who you might have been, and then
1092
01:19:32,133 --> 01:19:38,175
pretty exciting, we've coordinated
this "Navigator" reunion
1093
01:19:38,225 --> 01:19:42,670
Not really sure exactly... exactly who's going
to be here and stuff so, it'll be a surprise
1094
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:49,710
but I'm really excited like, it felt like a family, and
it just it was a huge part of my young... young life
1095
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:54,831
I have butterflies, I'm nervous, I'm
not really sure what to expect, I mean
1096
01:19:54,881 --> 01:19:59,429
There was many times over the
years that I thought about reaching out
1097
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:04,775
I was embarrassed or ashamed of how my life
was at the time, so I never reached out
1098
01:20:04,825 --> 01:20:09,769
That being said, now that I'm in such a
good place, and with myself, and in my life
1099
01:20:09,819 --> 01:20:12,727
it's going to be really exciting
to see all these people
1100
01:20:12,777 --> 01:20:15,548
Joey Cramer...
- Oh my gosh
1101
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,384
How are you buddy?
- I'm so good
1102
01:20:21,018 --> 01:20:25,310
Hello...
- Hi... so good to see you
1103
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:26,910
Do I call you Joey, or Joe?
1104
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,950
Whatever you want, I'm easy, Joey's good
- Yeah?
1105
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:32,517
It's so good, so good to see you!
- Wow, look at you...
1106
01:20:32,567 --> 01:20:39,293
Randal has always been wonderful and
supportive, and I'd want him to know that he's
1107
01:20:39,343 --> 01:20:45,710
a huge part of my life, and like that, I
didn't really have much of a father figure,
1108
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:51,470
I always felt cared for and loved, and
appreciated, and just such a
1109
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:58,104
generous spirit, and such a good man like,
I just... I couldn't say enough really
1110
01:20:58,154 --> 01:21:01,390
and I mean, who's kidding like, "Grease"?
1111
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:06,510
Well, there's one guy over there...
uh, oh Detective... Detective Banks...
1112
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:08,250
Remember this guy?
1113
01:21:08,300 --> 01:21:11,307
Finally gonna deliver you home
- That's right
1114
01:21:12,512 --> 01:21:17,600
So good to see you!
- You too... get the family back together
1115
01:21:17,650 --> 01:21:23,148
I think that the notion of a movie becoming
a cult classic, is something that
1116
01:21:23,198 --> 01:21:27,327
always is for people other than
the filmmakers to make happen
1117
01:21:27,377 --> 01:21:31,310
Oh hey, good to see you, Tim!
- Albie Whitaker
1118
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,326
Oh my God, Albie...
this is your little brother!
1119
01:21:34,376 --> 01:21:37,263
Oh yeah, how are you?
- Good to see you, man
1120
01:21:37,313 --> 01:21:40,742
You know, the picture opened, okay
1121
01:21:40,792 --> 01:21:45,776
The fact is that the picture
played for years on the Disney Channel, and
1122
01:21:45,826 --> 01:21:51,339
developed a real, I would say, a cult following,
more as a result of television, and video
1123
01:21:51,389 --> 01:21:52,910
than theatrical
1124
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,250
You're out?
- I'm out
1125
01:21:55,300 --> 01:21:59,950
Yeah, no probation, no, you know,
no ankle bracelet, nothing (laughs)
1126
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,390
And just, yeah it's great, I
got my NASA shoes on - Okay!
1127
01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:08,581
This movie had a lot of things
in it that were new for the time
1128
01:22:08,631 --> 01:22:11,630
and I think when you add all of those
different elements, the
1129
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:16,684
...the puppetry, Joey particularly, the
ship itself, it became something
1130
01:22:16,734 --> 01:22:20,584
larger than something we even imagined,
and regardless of
1131
01:22:20,634 --> 01:22:24,590
the box office outcome
of a movie like that is, a movie like that
1132
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,992
tends to continue to play, and play
1133
01:22:27,042 --> 01:22:29,954
There's been talk of... of doing a sequel
1134
01:22:30,004 --> 01:22:32,961
I would kill to work on a sequel
to that movie, that'd be fun
1135
01:22:33,011 --> 01:22:38,030
I love the original and
sometimes these remakes don't work out
1136
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:39,950
If you're gonna do it, it has to be better
1137
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:45,470
I'm trying to think of one where it
did, and I can't think of one (laughs)
1138
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:48,222
And I had this really funny thing happen
1139
01:22:48,272 --> 01:22:51,319
where um, well because you know
I've been through ups and downs and I
1140
01:22:51,369 --> 01:22:54,373
was in jail for a while and all this stuff right, you know?
- Yeah
1141
01:22:54,423 --> 01:22:58,372
but I actually had some officers
who loved the movie, - Yeah
1142
01:22:58,422 --> 01:23:04,628
print off the script and ask me
the questions while we were driving
1143
01:23:04,678 --> 01:23:08,192
We were driving to go to some appointment
or something, and they were like
1144
01:23:08,242 --> 01:23:11,645
"So you know, David right, who's the
President of the United States?" I'm like
1145
01:23:11,695 --> 01:23:15,567
"Duh, you want to know that for your
paperwork?" Anyway right, but uh...
1146
01:23:15,617 --> 01:23:19,235
But they... we did the whole scene, and
I still remembered it after all these years
1147
01:23:19,285 --> 01:23:22,606
That's fantastic, man, that's fantastic
- But super fun
1148
01:23:22,987 --> 01:23:25,280
I can't believe it's 33 years
1149
01:23:25,597 --> 01:23:29,194
I do conventions, and you'd be
amazed how many people come
1150
01:23:29,244 --> 01:23:31,248
and have seen "Flight of the Navigator"
1151
01:23:31,298 --> 01:23:35,310
I remember seeing the
picture for the first time,
1152
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:37,647
seeing the picture for the first time, and
being so moved by it
1153
01:23:37,671 --> 01:23:40,634
It's lovely when they come up
and they say "Oh..."
1154
01:23:40,684 --> 01:23:45,710
My favourite movie is "Flight of the Navigator",
it's not "Alien", it's "Flight of the Navigator"
1155
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:51,133
Kids were always coming up to me saying "Oh
you were the dad in "Flight of the Navigator!"
1156
01:23:51,183 --> 01:23:55,440
And I said "Yeah", they said "Oh you know, I
really loved it, and it changed my life and..."
1157
01:23:55,490 --> 01:23:59,331
"...I was having trouble with my
parents but then I saw that" and
1158
01:23:59,381 --> 01:24:03,576
and it was really touching to me
how it touched them,
1159
01:24:03,626 --> 01:24:08,626
So it's always surprising to me, the emotional
resonance that some of these things have
1160
01:24:08,943 --> 01:24:12,905
It comes up and I would say "Well, I was in a
movie" and they're like "Well, what movie? and I say
1161
01:24:12,955 --> 01:24:18,990
"Flight of the Navigator"...everybody has the same
response, they go "Oh my God, I love that movie"
1162
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,262
Why is Navigator so revered
and special to so many?
1163
01:24:22,312 --> 01:24:23,470
Because it has heart
1164
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,688
When we do movies, it lasts forever
1165
01:24:27,738 --> 01:24:30,830
It's another world in which
anything is possible
1166
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:34,767
I think the reason that "Flight of Navigator"
still works is the performance of Joey
1167
01:24:34,817 --> 01:24:37,376
It sets off a child's imagination
1168
01:24:37,426 --> 01:24:44,270
And I think also, people relate to the
idea of you never really leave home
1169
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:49,056
It's a really fun movie with a great
message about love, and family, and
1170
01:24:49,106 --> 01:24:54,361
It was sweet... sweet as can be, and of a
different era, those movies are gone,
1171
01:24:54,411 --> 01:24:55,963
and we won't see them again
1172
01:24:56,013 --> 01:24:59,431
I didn't realize when I was that young,
how many people did watch it
1173
01:24:59,481 --> 01:25:02,586
because people still "Oh, 'Flight
of the Navigator', I know that movie"
1174
01:25:02,636 --> 01:25:08,000
I'm always surprised that they say
"Yes, that moved me, and thank you"
1175
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,395
What scares me about the future?
1176
01:25:11,445 --> 01:25:15,093
With the most humility I almost don't
fear the future
1177
01:25:15,143 --> 01:25:17,749
because I live moment to moment, and
1178
01:25:17,799 --> 01:25:21,434
right now in this moment I'm doing
everything I can to be the best
1179
01:25:21,484 --> 01:25:22,688
version of me
1180
01:25:22,712 --> 01:25:29,509
I was the movie star kid
who had no identity, and now I do
1181
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,520
Now I do
1182
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:40,160
My life after the navigator has been pretty
crazy uh, it has been a roller coaster
1183
01:25:44,619 --> 01:25:48,360
It has been very painful
1184
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,045
I don't need to numb out anymore
1185
01:25:53,426 --> 01:25:56,312
I don't need to hide who I am anymore
1186
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:58,549
I'm not afraid anymore
1187
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:03,117
Let's say that only the greatest
navigators find new worlds
1188
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,396
but they also find their way home
1189
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:26,801
It's the day of the Barney Bental
concert at the Port Theater
1190
01:26:26,851 --> 01:26:29,018
I'm going, uh...
1191
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:31,672
going downtown for an audition
1192
01:26:31,722 --> 01:26:34,608
Woo hoo! I'm technically
a high school grad
1193
01:26:34,658 --> 01:26:38,346
My first audition in probably
15 years or something
1194
01:26:38,396 --> 01:26:43,550
Just a quick hello, I'm off to
VIU today to... this morning to
1195
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:46,194
um, I think officially register for school
1196
01:26:46,244 --> 01:26:51,034
Today I'm off to court well, to have my
1197
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,663
probation terminated early
1198
01:26:53,713 --> 01:26:56,775
Working on set today,
working on a commercial
1199
01:26:56,825 --> 01:26:59,269
and doing some PA work, so it's super fun
1200
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:01,972
I got approved
1201
01:27:02,022 --> 01:27:04,829
just awesome to be where I love to be
1202
01:27:04,879 --> 01:27:08,910
August 31st my probation will end
1203
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:14,487
It's my birthday, happy
birthday to me... 47!
1204
01:27:14,537 --> 01:27:17,790
- Hi Joe, good morning!
Welcome to Alamo City Comic Con!
1205
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,470
Ahhhh! (laughs)
1206
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:20,817
I'm having so much fun
1207
01:27:20,867 --> 01:27:22,591
Who doesn't need a golf cart?
1208
01:27:22,641 --> 01:27:27,822
One of the coolest things about today
is that I am two years off of methadone
1209
01:27:27,872 --> 01:27:31,163
Joe Cramer, "Flight of the Navigator"
Hey, who am I? Sam J Jones
1210
01:27:31,213 --> 01:27:32,648
Yeah, Flash Gordon!
1211
01:27:32,698 --> 01:27:34,617
I met some really cool people this morning
1212
01:27:34,667 --> 01:27:38,190
but it's just one of those movies
that you loved as a kid
1213
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:41,045
and you carried it over into your adulthood
1214
01:27:41,095 --> 01:27:44,255
Here's the Majestic in downtown San Antonio
1215
01:27:44,305 --> 01:27:49,000
And I had, of course, the biggest crush
on Joe, I mean right, what what kid didn't?
1216
01:27:49,050 --> 01:27:52,520
Pretty much, you know, like one
meeting with someone who really
1217
01:27:52,570 --> 01:27:56,175
like, loved "Flight of the Navigator"
and came all this way, it's worth
1218
01:27:56,225 --> 01:28:00,275
like the full day - I could sit here and
not meet another person, and I'd be happy
1219
01:28:00,325 --> 01:28:03,376
"One, two, three...!" (laughs)
1220
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:08,830
I don't know what I was trying to
say, okay I'm gonna start it over (laughs)
1221
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:15,150
One of the hardest decisions, and also best
decisions, that I had to make was letting
1222
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,351
Celecta become formally adopted
1223
01:28:18,401 --> 01:28:23,193
I was working hard to stay clean,
and I wanted her to grow up with the
1224
01:28:23,243 --> 01:28:28,910
best possible opportunities, so Celecta's
foster parents - Joanne and Claude
1225
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,638
offered to formally adopt her
1226
01:28:31,688 --> 01:28:37,751
Over the past few years, Celecta and I have
gotten to bond and connect more and more
1227
01:28:37,801 --> 01:28:41,840
I feel so grateful that we did this
1228
01:28:50,124 --> 01:28:54,863
- Tonight we're going to have a 35mm presentation
of the classic "Flight of the Navigator"
1229
01:28:54,913 --> 01:28:58,642
followed by the Q&A with our guests,
but I'd like to bring them out now
1230
01:28:58,692 --> 01:29:00,797
to say hello, they'll be sitting with you
1231
01:29:01,526 --> 01:29:06,630
- We have the director of this film, the
amazing Randal Kleiser
1232
01:29:08,723 --> 01:29:14,657
- We have the casting director Valorie Massalas
is here, put it together for this wonderful cast
1233
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:22,761
- And lastly, we have the navigator
himself, Joe Cramer's here - the Navigator!
1234
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,590
- There's a lot of in-jokes in here, you
have "Grease" playing
1235
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,550
Oh yeah, the film was set in 1978
1236
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,503
- And you directed an
episode of "Starsky and Hutch"?
1237
01:29:36,527 --> 01:29:38,571
I did...(laughs)
1238
01:29:38,621 --> 01:29:42,533
You were the voice of Johnny 5 in "Short Circuit"
as well, is that correct? Because these people...
1239
01:29:42,557 --> 01:29:49,321
Yes! No disassemble... need input...
1240
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:56,637
I was sort of thinking like "God, that poor kid,
he thought that hair and those glasses look cool"
1241
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,691
Hi Joey, how are you doing? This
is one of my favorite movies like,
1242
01:30:03,741 --> 01:30:05,840
I'm totally geeking out right now
- That's okay
1243
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:12,925
I'm really proud, and I know I'm really
worthy
1244
01:30:12,975 --> 01:30:16,714
and I totally deserve this, so...
1245
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:21,620
I want to thank everybody
who never gave up on me
1246
01:30:21,670 --> 01:30:25,845
I know that there's a lot
of you out there, and...
1247
01:30:30,099 --> 01:30:31,619
Thank you
119212
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