Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:30,633 --> 00:00:32,900
( Prison door buzzes )
2
00:00:49,233 --> 00:00:51,266
I knew from when
I was real small
3
00:00:51,266 --> 00:00:53,934
that people were gonna
know who I was.
4
00:00:53,934 --> 00:00:55,600
I always had that feeling.
5
00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,400
But I just never knew
how they were gonna learn.
6
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,800
I kinda enjoy it,
because now even after I die,
7
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,633
people are going
to remember me forever.
8
00:01:06,633 --> 00:01:08,900
They're gonna
talk about me for years.
9
00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:13,467
People in west Memphis
will tell their kids stories.
10
00:01:13,467 --> 00:01:14,867
It... it will be, like,
11
00:01:14,867 --> 00:01:17,367
sort of like I’m
the west Memphis bogey man.
12
00:01:17,367 --> 00:01:19,800
Little kids will be
looking under their bed
13
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,967
before they go to bed...
"Damien might be under there."
14
00:01:24,367 --> 00:01:27,734
If I had the opportunity
to speak to Damien Echols...
15
00:01:29,133 --> 00:01:33,133
I would tell him that I hope
he busts hell wide open.
16
00:01:35,033 --> 00:01:37,033
Period.
17
00:01:37,033 --> 00:01:39,767
And that if I could
get my hands on him,
18
00:01:39,767 --> 00:01:43,467
I would eat the skin
off of his face.
19
00:01:57,934 --> 00:02:01,033
"Paradise lost:
The child murders
at Robin hood hills,"
20
00:02:01,033 --> 00:02:03,567
this film tells the tale
of three teens who wore black,
21
00:02:03,567 --> 00:02:06,033
listened to Metallica
and, perhaps as a result,
22
00:02:06,033 --> 00:02:09,433
were convicted in the 1993
killing of three young boys.
23
00:02:09,433 --> 00:02:11,600
Two filmmakers
with incredible access
24
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,700
spent almost a year
in west Memphis documenting
the trial and the town.
25
00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:18,166
Everybody in the town
and in the courtroom
and on the jury
26
00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:21,700
are all blinded
by their fantasies
about satanic cults.
27
00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:23,867
Tom Brokaw:
The criminal confessions.
28
00:02:23,867 --> 00:02:26,567
Are too many manipulated
by the police?
29
00:02:26,567 --> 00:02:29,800
You've got to be
wondering if the true killers
were actually captured.
30
00:02:33,934 --> 00:02:35,900
The reason
I made the, um,
31
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:40,133
"west Memphis bogey man"
comment during the first film
32
00:02:40,133 --> 00:02:42,800
was because I was making
light of the situation.
33
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,533
I was joking.
I didn't realize that...
34
00:02:46,533 --> 00:02:50,266
I mean I didn't
even comprehend
35
00:02:50,266 --> 00:02:52,667
that the situation
could get this serious,
36
00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:55,133
that it could actually
go this far.
37
00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:59,934
Because I was thinking,
"if you haven't done anything,
38
00:02:59,934 --> 00:03:02,133
then they can't prove
that you did something
39
00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:04,200
you haven't
actually done."
40
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,800
That didn't make sense to me.
Now I see they can.
41
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,934
I wasn't even thinking
about it whenever I said it...
42
00:03:10,934 --> 00:03:12,500
a spur-of-the-moment thing.
43
00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,033
But a lot of people, it seems,
didn't take it that way.
44
00:03:16,033 --> 00:03:19,734
Mark Byers:
You're not gonna be
no bogey man in west Memphis
45
00:03:19,734 --> 00:03:22,133
because you're gonna
be dead in hell.
46
00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,533
Anchorman:
You're watching KATV
channel 7,
47
00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:30,300
the spirit of Arkansas.
48
00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:32,266
Today marks
the five-year anniversary
49
00:03:32,266 --> 00:03:35,433
of a west Memphis murder case
that gained national attention.
50
00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:37,633
The bodies of
three second graders:
51
00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:40,700
Steven branch, Christopher Byers
and Michael Moore
52
00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:43,033
were found mutilated
in a ditch.
53
00:03:43,033 --> 00:03:46,433
Now one of the three men
convicted for the murders,
Damien Echols,
54
00:03:46,433 --> 00:03:49,467
has prompted a hearing to try
to get his conviction
thrown out.
55
00:03:49,467 --> 00:03:52,700
- Norris.
- Norris Deajon: That hearing
started today in Jonesboro,
56
00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,700
where the trial
also took place.
57
00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,266
Damien Echols is trying
to avoid being executed
by lethal injection.
58
00:03:58,266 --> 00:04:00,533
He's claiming he didn't
get a fair trial
59
00:04:00,533 --> 00:04:03,567
because of misrepresentation
by his attorneys.
60
00:04:03,567 --> 00:04:06,533
Four years ago an Arkansas jury
found him guilty
61
00:04:06,533 --> 00:04:08,233
of murdering
three second graders
62
00:04:08,233 --> 00:04:10,967
in a horrific
ritualistic sacrifice.
63
00:04:10,967 --> 00:04:13,300
As our senior correspondent
Tim Sullivan reports,
64
00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:16,767
he wants a new trial
and a chance to live.
65
00:04:16,767 --> 00:04:18,867
Sullivan:
After a month
of investigation,
66
00:04:18,867 --> 00:04:22,300
police arrested Echols
and two of his teenage friends,
67
00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:25,100
Jessie Misskelley
and Jason Baldwin.
68
00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:29,433
Police theorized
the murders had been
part of a satanic ritual.
69
00:04:29,433 --> 00:04:31,000
In addition to local media,
70
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,200
the case attracted
a documentary team
71
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,166
that produced a film called
"paradise lost" for HBO.
72
00:04:38,166 --> 00:04:39,567
As a result of the film,
73
00:04:39,567 --> 00:04:41,700
a nationwide support group
has sprung up
74
00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:45,934
to help
the young men they call
"the west Memphis three."
75
00:04:45,934 --> 00:04:48,100
( Music playing )
76
00:05:08,133 --> 00:05:11,133
Chris Worthington:
If the world would only know
that this case is
77
00:05:11,133 --> 00:05:14,367
a travesty.
It is a non-case.
78
00:05:14,367 --> 00:05:18,533
It is a case where someone
is in prison right now
because of prejudice.
79
00:05:18,533 --> 00:05:23,000
My son Christopher was
the one that Jason Baldwin,
80
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,066
Jessie Misskelley
and Damien Echols murdered
81
00:05:27,066 --> 00:05:29,934
on may 5, 1993,
five years ago today.
82
00:05:29,934 --> 00:05:32,633
That's all we're really doing
is trying to promote the case.
83
00:05:32,633 --> 00:05:36,000
You know, we're not experts,
we're not lawyers,
we're not scientists.
84
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,533
We just need
to keep this case alive
so people will do something.
85
00:05:38,533 --> 00:05:41,133
- Reporter: And where
are you from?
- Los Angeles.
86
00:05:41,133 --> 00:05:43,433
- Where are you from?
- I'm from Arkansas...
87
00:05:43,433 --> 00:05:45,800
- Paris, Arkansas.
- And where are you from?
88
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,867
Akron, Ohio.
89
00:05:47,867 --> 00:05:51,533
Mark, how do you feel about
"the west Memphis three"
support group?
90
00:05:51,533 --> 00:05:55,133
To me it's like
a Jeffrey Dahmer fan club,
91
00:05:55,133 --> 00:05:58,066
Charles Manson fan club,
Ted Bundy.
92
00:05:58,066 --> 00:06:01,767
You could name them all.
Some people want to come to
the rescue of a savage
93
00:06:01,767 --> 00:06:05,300
to get maybe their 15-minutes'
notoriety on TV.
94
00:06:05,300 --> 00:06:08,100
Burk Sauls:
We get emails from
all over the world actually.
95
00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,467
You know, everybody knows
there's doubt about this case,
96
00:06:10,467 --> 00:06:14,033
but we just want
people to look at it again
and maybe question it.
97
00:06:14,033 --> 00:06:16,800
They keep wanting to find
someone else to blame
98
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,133
to get their three off.
99
00:06:18,133 --> 00:06:21,500
That's their job...
taking care of who they want;
100
00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:23,433
draw suspicion;
Do their thing.
101
00:06:23,433 --> 00:06:28,000
But the world knows who's
guilty and who's innocent.
102
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,633
Could you hold that out for me
and let me get another shot?
103
00:06:31,633 --> 00:06:34,100
Worthington:
We would like
to talk about the case.
104
00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:37,567
I'm here today because this is
a hearing for Damien Echols.
105
00:06:37,567 --> 00:06:40,100
It's the fifth anniversary
of the tragic murders
106
00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,500
which he was convicted for,
but we do not feel there was
107
00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:46,300
really sufficient evidence
to warrant that conviction.
108
00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:48,800
Yeah, they're guilty.
They're guilty as they are.
109
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,467
And that's an atrocity
for you to even want to sell...
110
00:06:51,467 --> 00:06:54,000
where's the profit going
for these t-shirts?
111
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,600
It all goes to raise
publicity about the case.
112
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,633
Every penny of it goes
back into doing that.
113
00:06:58,633 --> 00:07:01,433
Byers:
Why doesn't the profit go
to the victims' families?
114
00:07:01,433 --> 00:07:05,100
The son of Sam law says
that Echols and these three
can't make any money off it...
115
00:07:05,100 --> 00:07:08,033
- it doesn't go to them.
- It is going to
the victims' families.
116
00:07:08,033 --> 00:07:11,133
It is. It's trying
to find out who killed
these little boys.
117
00:07:11,133 --> 00:07:14,467
- They know who killed these
three little boys right there.
- I don't know it.
118
00:07:14,467 --> 00:07:17,467
- They're
cold-blooded murderers.
- Sauls: In your opinion.
119
00:07:17,467 --> 00:07:19,767
It doesn't... doesn't
add up that way for us.
120
00:07:19,767 --> 00:07:23,333
In my opinion
and 24 jurors out of
the state of Arkansas's opinion.
121
00:07:23,333 --> 00:07:26,033
Don't just say
my opinion.
122
00:07:26,033 --> 00:07:27,800
These T-shirts...
123
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,433
they're worth trash,
garbage.
124
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,667
Echols:
I've been locked up six years
for something that I didn't do.
125
00:07:56,667 --> 00:08:00,734
And sometimes, uh,
the things we go through
that make us suffer
126
00:08:00,734 --> 00:08:04,100
are very good teachers.
127
00:08:05,633 --> 00:08:10,200
I think my suffering
through this whole thing
128
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,700
has taught me
a very great deal.
129
00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:21,500
Jason Baldwin:
I have anger sometimes,
130
00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,533
but there's no one
to direct it towards, you know?
131
00:08:24,533 --> 00:08:28,767
So I just really try
to stay focused on, uh,
132
00:08:28,767 --> 00:08:31,600
just going home,
getting...
133
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,133
letting everybody
know that I am innocent,
that I didn't do this.
134
00:08:35,133 --> 00:08:38,967
Um, I don't really understand
how they convicted me
135
00:08:38,967 --> 00:08:42,166
or got me in here
or really how they did...
136
00:08:42,166 --> 00:08:45,033
how they just arrested me
in the first place, you know?
137
00:08:45,033 --> 00:08:49,266
But it happened,
so I just can't really
dwell on what's happened.
138
00:08:49,266 --> 00:08:52,767
I've just got to work
with what's going on now.
139
00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,367
Jessie Misskelley:
When they told me that
I was going to spend
140
00:09:01,367 --> 00:09:03,200
the rest of my life in prison,
at the time,
141
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,500
I wanted to tell them,
"look, I don't want to do that.
142
00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:07,967
Just... you might as well just
go ahead and kill me right now
143
00:09:07,967 --> 00:09:11,000
because there ain't
no way I'm going to spend
the rest of my life
144
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,367
in prison and miss my family.
I just can't do that."
145
00:09:13,367 --> 00:09:15,967
But you know, over the years
past and everything,
146
00:09:15,967 --> 00:09:17,734
I done... you know,
I done got used to it,
147
00:09:17,734 --> 00:09:19,633
done adjusted to it
and everything,
148
00:09:19,633 --> 00:09:21,734
how the system works
and all that, you know.
149
00:09:21,734 --> 00:09:24,133
I adjusted to it,
you know.
150
00:09:24,133 --> 00:09:27,600
Basically...
151
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,166
It's getting better
and better by the day.
152
00:09:30,166 --> 00:09:32,633
You know, I've just got
to adjust to it more often.
153
00:09:32,633 --> 00:09:34,400
And it's getting better.
154
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,233
But I lived... I'm gonna
make it through it.
155
00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:40,066
♪ Welcome to where
time stands still ♪
156
00:09:40,066 --> 00:09:43,800
♪ no one leaves
and no one will ♪
157
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,400
♪ the moon is full,
it never seems to change ♪
158
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,133
♪ just labeled
mentally deranged... ♪
159
00:09:50,133 --> 00:09:53,800
My name is Chris Worthington
and I'm from Akron, Ohio.
160
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,734
Debra Shue, I'm from
Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
161
00:09:56,734 --> 00:09:59,867
I'm Kathy Bakken
and I'm from California.
162
00:09:59,867 --> 00:10:04,000
Grove Pashley,
g-r-o-v-e p-a-s-h-l-e-y,
163
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,467
and I'm from Los Angeles.
164
00:10:05,467 --> 00:10:09,133
Anna Macek,
a-n-n-a m-a-c-e-k,
165
00:10:09,133 --> 00:10:11,800
from right outside
Houston, Texas.
166
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,834
I'm Ruth Carter
and I'm from Virginia.
167
00:10:14,834 --> 00:10:18,900
Bill Prichason,
p-r-i-c-h-a-s-o-n,
168
00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,867
- Stenographer: A-s-o-n?
- New Joisey.
169
00:10:21,867 --> 00:10:24,867
Gregory Fleming
from Alexander, Arkansas.
170
00:10:24,867 --> 00:10:28,934
I'm Marcia Ian,
m-a-r-c-i-a i-a-n,
171
00:10:28,934 --> 00:10:30,600
also from New Jersey.
172
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,734
My name's burk Sauls
and I'm an alcoholic.
173
00:10:32,734 --> 00:10:37,300
- ( Laughing )
- No, I'm burk Sauls,
b-u-r-k s-a-u-l-s,
174
00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:40,533
and I'm from
Los Angeles, California.
175
00:10:40,533 --> 00:10:44,166
I'd like it if you
could all tell me why...
176
00:10:44,166 --> 00:10:46,800
why some of you
have come from so far?
177
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,166
Some, I think, have driven
as far as from California,
178
00:10:50,166 --> 00:10:52,734
taken vacation time,
spent money and so forth
179
00:10:52,734 --> 00:10:55,033
to come to this...
180
00:10:55,033 --> 00:10:58,767
fairly obscure
in many ways... hearing.
181
00:10:58,767 --> 00:11:02,667
I think I saw "paradise lost"
the night it premiered on HBO
182
00:11:02,667 --> 00:11:04,533
in August of '96.
183
00:11:04,533 --> 00:11:06,967
And it just made me so mad
184
00:11:06,967 --> 00:11:09,767
that a modern-day
witch trial
185
00:11:09,767 --> 00:11:13,033
was being allowed
to occur in America.
186
00:11:13,033 --> 00:11:15,400
I mean, it's not just the fact
that they were making mistakes
187
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,467
and getting the wrong people,
it looked like,
188
00:11:17,467 --> 00:11:20,934
but the fact that people seemed
to be reaching their decisions,
189
00:11:20,934 --> 00:11:22,400
even the jury,
190
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,400
because of things
like emotions and prejudice
191
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,700
and hysteria
and their anger.
192
00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:30,300
And they weren't using
their reason or common sense
193
00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:32,567
or they weren't really
even applying the law.
194
00:11:32,567 --> 00:11:35,367
And I just think
that's the wrong way
195
00:11:35,367 --> 00:11:37,433
for things to happen
in America.
196
00:11:37,433 --> 00:11:40,033
And I couldn't
forget about it.
197
00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:43,834
I just got angrier,
so finally I decided
to look into the case
198
00:11:43,834 --> 00:11:47,033
and I wrote Damien
and read all I could about it
199
00:11:47,033 --> 00:11:50,300
and finally just
kind of stumbled upon
200
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:54,367
other people on the Internet
who felt like I did about it.
201
00:11:54,367 --> 00:11:56,900
It just made me cry.
It really made me cry,
because I was thinking,
202
00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,400
"how in the world
can they sentence
this guy to death
203
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,266
with what they have?
Which is nothing."
204
00:12:02,266 --> 00:12:05,500
Shue:
When I went to work,
you know, and they had
205
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,033
"caught" the people
that had done this,
206
00:12:08,033 --> 00:12:11,467
my boss at work,
she just thought it was great.
207
00:12:11,467 --> 00:12:15,533
She was like, "well,
they caught those freaks
that killed those kids."
208
00:12:15,533 --> 00:12:17,200
( Sarcastically )
What a relief!
209
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,100
Yeah, I mean,
those were her exact words...
"they caught those freaks."
210
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:22,233
And I said, "they haven't
even done the trial yet.
211
00:12:22,233 --> 00:12:24,667
What makes
you think they did it?"
And she was like,
212
00:12:24,667 --> 00:12:28,233
"well, look at them.
Look at the way they dress.
Of course they did it."
213
00:12:28,233 --> 00:12:30,667
I thought, "golly, I'd better
stay in the house then
214
00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:33,967
because it's not safe
for me out there then."
215
00:12:33,967 --> 00:12:35,800
( Scattered laughter )
216
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,967
Prichason:
I think that's a real typical
scenario people go through.
217
00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:44,333
Uh, they first join the list
is that... "I watched
'paradise lost.'
218
00:12:44,333 --> 00:12:48,333
I also wore black t-shirts.
I was an alienated teenager."
219
00:12:48,333 --> 00:12:52,533
And I think that might be
the initial attraction
that brings people in.
220
00:12:52,533 --> 00:12:56,700
But I think what's really
important and that brings
people together
221
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:59,166
to the point where you
travel across country
222
00:12:59,166 --> 00:13:01,700
to come
to Jonesboro, Arkansas,
223
00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:03,600
on your week of vacation
224
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,500
are the more important issues
such as justice,
225
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,400
such as a corrupt,
incompetent police force
226
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,333
and justice system
working in a vacuum
227
00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:17,600
here in Arkansas
when nobody's watching.
That's why I'm here.
228
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,333
I don't want them to think
they can operate in the dark,
229
00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:22,433
kind of like
a mushroom, and grow.
230
00:13:29,967 --> 00:13:34,934
No one enjoys sentencing
somebody to death.
231
00:13:34,934 --> 00:13:39,867
Nobody enjoys having
to go through the...
232
00:13:39,867 --> 00:13:42,900
the trial.
That's why they call it
a "trial," I guess,
233
00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:44,800
because it is
234
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,233
heart-jerking
235
00:13:47,233 --> 00:13:49,600
and difficult to deal with.
236
00:13:52,233 --> 00:13:56,533
When you read those words
imposing the death sentence,
237
00:13:56,533 --> 00:13:59,033
I don't know
if it was visible,
238
00:13:59,033 --> 00:14:01,033
but there was a catch
in my throat.
239
00:14:01,033 --> 00:14:05,100
I could feel it and certainly
you've had those feelings.
240
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:06,967
It's hard.
241
00:14:06,967 --> 00:14:10,633
All right, gentlemen,
if you'd have your clients
stand, please.
242
00:14:10,633 --> 00:14:14,667
All right, Mr. Echols,
the jury having found you
guilty of capital murder,
243
00:14:14,667 --> 00:14:17,000
three counts in the death
of Michael Moore,
244
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,633
Chris Byers
and Steve branch,
245
00:14:19,633 --> 00:14:21,533
you are to be
immediately transported
246
00:14:21,533 --> 00:14:23,700
to the Arkansas
department of corrections,
247
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:28,734
where the director or his
duly-appointed and designated
representative will...
248
00:14:28,734 --> 00:14:31,333
( clears throat )
On the 5th day of may of 1994,
249
00:14:31,333 --> 00:14:33,900
will be directed to cause
to be administered
250
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,233
a continuous
intravenous injection
251
00:14:36,233 --> 00:14:38,166
of a lethal quantity
252
00:14:38,166 --> 00:14:41,700
of an ultrashort-acting
barbiturate
253
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:44,934
in combination
with a chemical paralytic agent
254
00:14:44,934 --> 00:14:48,333
into your body
until you are dead.
255
00:14:48,333 --> 00:14:51,667
There's never been a moment
256
00:14:51,667 --> 00:14:54,567
that I've ever doubted
257
00:14:54,567 --> 00:14:58,967
that we did not arrest
the right individuals.
258
00:14:58,967 --> 00:15:00,400
Never in my mind.
259
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,400
There's never been a doubt.
260
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,500
I can go to bed
at night and sleep,
261
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:07,734
knowing that I did my job
and did it well.
262
00:15:07,734 --> 00:15:09,767
If there was a doubt
in my mind,
263
00:15:09,767 --> 00:15:11,934
I would still be
on the police department
264
00:15:11,934 --> 00:15:14,133
and I'd still be
working the case.
265
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,166
This is detective Bryn Ridge
266
00:15:27,166 --> 00:15:29,133
of the west Memphis
police department
267
00:15:29,133 --> 00:15:30,600
conducting an investigation
268
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,934
of the circumstance
of triple homicide
269
00:15:32,934 --> 00:15:37,033
case file number
9305-0-6-6-6,
270
00:15:37,033 --> 00:15:39,333
currently in the office with
271
00:15:39,333 --> 00:15:43,967
Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.
272
00:15:43,967 --> 00:15:46,500
What occurred while
you were there?
273
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,834
Ridge:
What did he hit him with?
274
00:16:16,133 --> 00:16:19,100
Well, I was telling them,
you know, I don't know
nothing about that.
275
00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,867
And they just kept on
egging it on, egging it on,
egging on.
276
00:16:21,867 --> 00:16:25,066
Finally I just...
just said something where they
would just leave me alone.
277
00:16:25,066 --> 00:16:27,667
Finally I told them, you know,
I chased them and everything
278
00:16:27,667 --> 00:16:29,500
and caught them
and brought them back.
279
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:32,000
But none of that happened.
280
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,100
You know, you just...
you can't kill nobody
281
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,200
and don't leave no evidence.
You can't do it.
282
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,333
You know, I don't
care who you are,
you cannot do that.
283
00:16:43,333 --> 00:16:46,400
You know, there was no blood,
no fingerprints,
284
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,967
no nothing
at the crime scene.
285
00:16:48,967 --> 00:16:51,266
You just can't
kill nobody like that.
286
00:16:51,266 --> 00:16:55,166
I don't care if you're...
287
00:16:55,166 --> 00:16:57,233
A genius or nothing,
288
00:16:57,233 --> 00:16:59,200
you just can't do that.
289
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,700
Dan Stidham:
Inspector, let's talk about
the things that Jessie told you
290
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:04,934
that are just
absolutely incorrect.
291
00:17:04,934 --> 00:17:08,200
Now on page 9
of his statement,
inspector Gitchell,
292
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,100
Jessie says that the murders
took place around noon.
293
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:13,266
How did you know
that was incorrect?
294
00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:17,133
Because the boys were...
the young boys were
still in school.
295
00:17:17,133 --> 00:17:19,767
Did at any time when he was
telling you these things
296
00:17:19,767 --> 00:17:21,800
that you knew
were incorrect,
297
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,967
did it ever occur
to you that what he was
telling you was false?
298
00:17:24,967 --> 00:17:26,900
His entire story was false?
299
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,600
Uh, Jessie simply
got confused.
300
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,066
This is a classic example
301
00:17:32,066 --> 00:17:35,600
of how police can produce
a false confession.
302
00:17:37,133 --> 00:17:40,066
They threaten Jessie.
They tell him that
he knows things,
303
00:17:40,066 --> 00:17:43,467
that they know he knows.
They use the polygraph.
304
00:17:43,467 --> 00:17:47,000
They tell him that he's flunked
the polygraph when he didn't.
305
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,500
They use that to convince him
that his situation is hopeless.
306
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:56,300
They upset him enormously
by showing him these
horrible photographs
307
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,066
of these dead children.
308
00:17:58,066 --> 00:18:00,333
And then they give him
the option
309
00:18:00,333 --> 00:18:04,734
of being with the bad guys,
with the consequences of that,
310
00:18:04,734 --> 00:18:06,400
or joining the police.
311
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,200
And at this point,
all he wants to do
312
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,533
is get out
from under the pressure.
313
00:18:11,533 --> 00:18:15,000
So now all he has to do is
agree with what they tell him
314
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,734
and that's how
they set it up.
315
00:18:16,734 --> 00:18:20,900
Initially, they're going
for a false witness statement.
316
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,367
But once they have him talking,
it's not difficult
317
00:18:24,367 --> 00:18:28,900
to get him to agree to things
that will make him appear to be
318
00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,767
a participant
in the crime.
319
00:18:31,767 --> 00:18:36,433
John Fogleman:
Out of the 100 or more people
that y'all talked to,
320
00:18:36,433 --> 00:18:39,300
are you aware of anybody
other than the defendant
321
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:42,734
who told you
one of the victims
322
00:18:42,734 --> 00:18:46,233
that had their
genitals removed
323
00:18:46,233 --> 00:18:48,934
and one of them had cuts
to the side of the face
324
00:18:48,934 --> 00:18:51,567
and there had been some
grabbing of the ears?
325
00:18:51,567 --> 00:18:54,333
Uh, there was no one else
that mentioned
326
00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:56,433
those particular injuries.
327
00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:59,066
Fogleman:
Was there any kind
of emotional response?
328
00:18:59,066 --> 00:19:01,133
He had tears
coming down his eyes.
329
00:19:01,133 --> 00:19:05,266
- Had you all yelled at him
or been mean to him...
- No sir.
330
00:19:05,266 --> 00:19:08,867
...or threatened him
or promised him anything?
Done any of those things?
331
00:19:08,867 --> 00:19:11,633
- None of those things
happened whatsoever.
- All right.
332
00:19:11,633 --> 00:19:14,100
( Music playing )
333
00:19:32,233 --> 00:19:36,433
I was down at the prison
a couple weeks ago
seeing Jessie
334
00:19:36,433 --> 00:19:40,200
and he tells me that you
come down about every Sunday.
335
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,800
Yeah, I try to boost
his morale up.
336
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,667
Just hang in there for me.
We're doing everything we can.
337
00:19:45,667 --> 00:19:49,533
Sometimes it seems that
things are kind of progressing
at a snail's pace
338
00:19:49,533 --> 00:19:52,000
but that's unfortunately
the wheels of justice.
339
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,300
- There is no justice.
- Well, I got to tell you
that I had to ask myself
340
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,133
whether I still wanted
to be a lawyer.
341
00:19:58,133 --> 00:19:59,934
But it just lit
a bigger fire under me
342
00:19:59,934 --> 00:20:02,266
and made me want to get up
and fight that much more.
343
00:20:02,266 --> 00:20:04,667
Well, they didn't let you
present your case
344
00:20:04,667 --> 00:20:06,667
up there in court,
I noticed that.
345
00:20:06,667 --> 00:20:09,667
But we've got to have hope.
Without hope we don't
have a chance.
346
00:20:09,667 --> 00:20:11,800
I made a promise
to that kid of yours
347
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,633
that I'd never
give up the fight
348
00:20:13,633 --> 00:20:15,834
and I don't
intend to do that.
349
00:20:15,834 --> 00:20:18,867
Maybe the quickest way to get
Jessie out of that prison
350
00:20:18,867 --> 00:20:20,300
is to catch a killer.
351
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:24,367
Yeah well, I think everybody
knows who done it.
352
00:20:24,367 --> 00:20:28,500
But the... ain't nobody
saying anything.
353
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:34,433
Leveri
if you wouldn't mind,
can you all... you three,
354
00:20:34,433 --> 00:20:38,900
tell us how...
what the Genesis of the list
and the website and everything.
355
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:43,066
How you came to create it?
356
00:20:43,066 --> 00:20:45,700
I saw the movie...
I got an advance screener
357
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:47,867
because I work for
an advertising agency.
358
00:20:47,867 --> 00:20:50,633
And we worked
on the key art,
359
00:20:50,633 --> 00:20:52,333
which is like
the movie poster art.
360
00:20:52,333 --> 00:20:55,433
So I saw it about
three or four months
before it actually aired.
361
00:20:55,433 --> 00:20:57,233
We saw the film together,
Kathy and I.
362
00:20:57,233 --> 00:21:00,667
And we immediately saw it
and said, "oh, gosh, burk
would probably like this."
363
00:21:00,667 --> 00:21:02,467
( Laughter )
364
00:21:02,467 --> 00:21:03,934
Actually not like it.
365
00:21:03,934 --> 00:21:05,834
But, uh... so we
handed it over to burk
366
00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,633
and then burk took a copy
of it and watched it.
367
00:21:08,633 --> 00:21:10,533
And I think about
four days later,
368
00:21:10,533 --> 00:21:12,633
not only had burk
seen the film,
369
00:21:12,633 --> 00:21:15,400
he'd already found a book
in a used bookstore
on the case.
370
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,133
And he called us up
and he says, "these guys
are innocent."
371
00:21:18,133 --> 00:21:20,667
Sauls:
I got on this crusade
372
00:21:20,667 --> 00:21:23,333
to find every scrap
of information I could.
373
00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:27,800
And we got all the...
all the documents we could
get our hands on.
374
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,900
And it became
an obsessive type of...
375
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,367
like a collector's
type thing
376
00:21:33,367 --> 00:21:34,800
where we were each...
377
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,967
we'd get another
tiny scrap of information
378
00:21:36,967 --> 00:21:38,867
and we'd add it
to the archive on the web.
379
00:21:38,867 --> 00:21:40,433
And we decided
to make it public too.
380
00:21:40,433 --> 00:21:43,166
We wanted it to not just be
in our own little
filing cabinets,
381
00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:45,633
but we said, "let's
give this to everybody."
382
00:21:45,633 --> 00:21:47,834
After a while it
became apparent that
383
00:21:47,834 --> 00:21:50,200
no one had actually
looked at evidence
384
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,467
and put together a scenario
that made sense.
385
00:21:53,467 --> 00:21:56,700
And so we started doing more
research about, you know,
386
00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,700
investigation and homicide
and forensics.
387
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,100
And we came across a website
388
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:06,100
that actually gave forensic
and investigative classes,
389
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:09,400
like criminal profiling
and homicide investigation
390
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,467
and that kind of thing.
391
00:22:11,467 --> 00:22:15,166
So I thought it would help me
in understanding the case more
if I took these classes.
392
00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:17,567
So I just started taking
the classes and...
393
00:22:17,567 --> 00:22:19,400
And in doing so
I read all the articles
394
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,133
that Brent Turvey
had written.
395
00:22:21,133 --> 00:22:24,700
He's the guy that
gives the classes through
"knowledge solutions"
396
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,000
and I liked
his philosophy.
397
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,867
It made sense.
It was about evidence.
398
00:22:28,867 --> 00:22:31,567
It was criminal profiling
as it relates to evidence.
399
00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:33,567
And I thought,
maybe this is what we need,
400
00:22:33,567 --> 00:22:36,700
someone who could
take this evidence
and tell us what happened.
401
00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:38,734
Because that's all
we want to know...
402
00:22:38,734 --> 00:22:40,600
guilty or innocent
I just want to know.
403
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,400
So I called him up and I started
explaining the case
404
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,233
and he just said, "stop,"
you know, "get the lawyers.
Tell them to call me."
405
00:22:49,233 --> 00:22:53,166
And so I did and then
the rest is history.
406
00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:58,867
( Door opens, closes )
407
00:22:58,867 --> 00:23:01,300
- Stidham: Hey.
- Man: Hi, Dan, how are you?
408
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:02,967
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
409
00:23:02,967 --> 00:23:04,767
This is my wife
and business partner Barbara.
410
00:23:04,767 --> 00:23:06,533
- Nice to meet you, Barbara.
- Nice to meet you.
411
00:23:06,533 --> 00:23:09,533
- She's taking my notes for me
so our hands can be free.
- Great.
412
00:23:09,533 --> 00:23:12,834
What if I were to put you
over there by the easel
so you could use that?
413
00:23:12,834 --> 00:23:15,767
Great! An assortment
of markers here for me.
414
00:23:15,767 --> 00:23:18,467
I want to really thank you
for agreeing to meet me here
415
00:23:18,467 --> 00:23:21,100
and talk about this.
I... I've been working
416
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,667
on this case for a long time.
It's been over four years.
417
00:23:24,667 --> 00:23:29,100
And when I got
the email from Kathy
at the support fund,
418
00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,900
for the first time
in a long time
419
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:32,767
I got to see
a ray of hope
420
00:23:32,767 --> 00:23:36,266
for some justice and maybe
having this thing analyzed
421
00:23:36,266 --> 00:23:38,767
and you don't how much
it means to us.
422
00:23:38,767 --> 00:23:41,233
We didn't have
a budget to work with.
423
00:23:41,233 --> 00:23:43,967
We didn't have access
to this kind of information.
424
00:23:43,967 --> 00:23:46,100
We tried to get it,
but we just couldn't...
425
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:47,834
we couldn't
accomplish it.
426
00:23:47,834 --> 00:23:51,266
And it's just...
uh, it's really...
427
00:23:51,266 --> 00:23:54,000
it's really good to be able
to look at this stuff now
428
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,133
and analyze it,
even if it is four years later.
429
00:23:56,133 --> 00:23:59,200
- Do you want to go right
and look at the...
- sure.
430
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,367
Okay, I brought
the crime scene photos.
431
00:24:02,367 --> 00:24:04,500
In every other case
that I've worked on,
432
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,700
the crime scene photos
are always these very...
433
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,867
they're like
endangered species.
You know, you never see them.
434
00:24:09,867 --> 00:24:12,600
The actual crime scene photos
are kind of spirited away
435
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,800
and what the defense
usually gets is nothing
436
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,633
or color photocopies
that are really bad.
437
00:24:17,633 --> 00:24:20,000
In this case, I was
very surprised to receive
438
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,500
all of the actual
crime scene photos.
439
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:26,400
One of the cornerstones
of the prosecution's case
440
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,967
- was that this was
a ritualistic, satanic...
- Right.
441
00:24:29,967 --> 00:24:31,633
...cult homicide.
442
00:24:31,633 --> 00:24:35,233
Do you see anything here
from the crime-scene
characteristics
443
00:24:35,233 --> 00:24:38,166
which would be
indicative
444
00:24:38,166 --> 00:24:40,633
of satanism
or ritualistic homicide
445
00:24:40,633 --> 00:24:43,000
by a cult or anything
of that nature?
446
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,600
Most certainly not.
447
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,433
There's a definite lack
of ritual element to this crime.
448
00:24:47,433 --> 00:24:49,867
It's very, uh...
it's very unfocused
449
00:24:49,867 --> 00:24:53,066
in terms of the nature
of the injuries.
450
00:24:53,066 --> 00:24:56,500
It's very much
a reactionary type
of behavior, not ritual.
451
00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,533
And these behaviors that we
see in this crime take time,
452
00:24:59,533 --> 00:25:01,500
so it would not be
plausible
453
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,600
for a serial killer
or a satanic cult group
454
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,800
to grab these victims
because of the fact that
455
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,166
they are going to be missed
almost immediately
456
00:25:08,166 --> 00:25:09,967
from the moment
that they are abducted.
457
00:25:09,967 --> 00:25:12,033
And whoever dumped
the bodies here
458
00:25:12,033 --> 00:25:14,333
knew that this place was here.
He knows the area.
459
00:25:14,333 --> 00:25:17,467
This is not someplace
that you can just find being
a trucker off the highway.
460
00:25:17,467 --> 00:25:19,800
You've got to know it's here.
You've got to be able
461
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,734
to walk in, dump the bodies
and walk out.
462
00:25:21,734 --> 00:25:23,767
You've got to know
that this is available.
463
00:25:23,767 --> 00:25:25,767
It's very clear to me
from the evidence
464
00:25:25,767 --> 00:25:27,734
that, uh... but we can get
into that later...
465
00:25:27,734 --> 00:25:29,700
that the offender
did know the victims.
466
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:31,767
( Phone ringing )
467
00:25:39,367 --> 00:25:41,066
Hello?
468
00:25:41,066 --> 00:25:44,233
Computer voice:
This is the MCI operator.
I have a collect call from...
469
00:25:44,233 --> 00:25:48,200
- Damien: Damien...
- ...Who is in an Arkansas
correctional facility.
470
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,166
All calls other than
properly-placed attorney calls
471
00:25:51,166 --> 00:25:52,767
will be monitored
and recorded.
472
00:25:52,767 --> 00:25:54,333
Bakken:
All right.
473
00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:56,967
- Damien: Am I on speakerphone?
- Bakken: Yeah. Yep.
474
00:25:56,967 --> 00:25:59,033
- Awwww!
- Pashley: How you doing?
475
00:25:59,033 --> 00:26:01,000
- Damien: All right.
- ( Typing )
476
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,767
Sauls:
So there's like about 15 people
saying "hello" right now.
477
00:26:03,767 --> 00:26:06,834
- Pashley: Hello, Damien.
- Hello, grove.
478
00:26:06,834 --> 00:26:09,300
Everybody's
saying "hello" now.
479
00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:11,200
"Hi, hello, hello, hi."
480
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,033
How many of them
is it on there now?
481
00:26:13,033 --> 00:26:14,867
25.
482
00:26:14,867 --> 00:26:19,066
I just put in the call
for questions on the
discussion group.
483
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:20,567
Okay.
484
00:26:20,567 --> 00:26:21,967
Beastie wants to know:
485
00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:25,066
"I teach at a university
and tell my students
about your case.
486
00:26:25,066 --> 00:26:27,467
What would you most like
them to know about you?"
487
00:26:27,467 --> 00:26:30,900
That I am neither
a freak nor a monster.
488
00:26:32,333 --> 00:26:36,166
Um, that I was basically
a victim of circumstance,
489
00:26:36,166 --> 00:26:39,200
that anyone
could have end...
490
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,400
end up in the same situation
that I am in.
491
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,133
Bakken:
"You ever... does the reality
of being executed
492
00:26:45,133 --> 00:26:48,400
ever bother you?
Like, do you ever think
that's gonna happen?"
493
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,100
I guess, yeah.
It... it bothers me sometimes.
494
00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:56,100
It doesn't bother me
in the area of being
afraid to die.
495
00:26:56,100 --> 00:27:00,266
What bothers me is leaving
so much left undone,
496
00:27:00,266 --> 00:27:03,967
and that us three
being behind bars
497
00:27:03,967 --> 00:27:06,066
or even sentenced to death
498
00:27:06,066 --> 00:27:08,166
or being in prison
for the rest of our lives,
499
00:27:08,166 --> 00:27:12,233
that is not going to,
in any way, bring
about justice,
500
00:27:12,233 --> 00:27:14,867
because we didn't
kill those children.
501
00:27:14,867 --> 00:27:18,633
I think it's pretty sad
that society can evolve
502
00:27:18,633 --> 00:27:22,300
to the stage that it has,
yet still be barbaric enough
503
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:27,200
that it puts innocent
people like myself,
Jason Baldwin
504
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,667
and even Jessie Misskelley
in prison
505
00:27:29,667 --> 00:27:31,467
and can even sentence you
to death
506
00:27:31,467 --> 00:27:34,867
while the real killer
still walks the streets.
507
00:27:41,066 --> 00:27:43,467
( Thunder rumbling )
508
00:27:46,567 --> 00:27:49,300
You know, here's where
I live today...
509
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:51,000
number 11.
510
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,834
An apartment somewhere
in the state of Arkansas.
511
00:27:55,834 --> 00:27:57,333
That's good enough.
512
00:27:57,333 --> 00:28:01,266
I came from
a real nice big home
513
00:28:01,266 --> 00:28:05,200
with all the amenities
and luxuries that you could have
514
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,834
to what I like to call
515
00:28:06,834 --> 00:28:10,867
"my humble modest
studio apartment;"
516
00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:13,400
a giant 300 square feet;
517
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,066
a bedroom, a living room,
a kitchen and a bathroom.
518
00:28:16,066 --> 00:28:17,800
But there's benefits to it.
519
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,834
It takes me five minutes
to vacuum,
520
00:28:19,834 --> 00:28:22,233
five minutes
for the air conditioner
to cool the place down
521
00:28:22,233 --> 00:28:25,467
and I don't have to walk far
to go to the bathroom.
522
00:28:25,467 --> 00:28:28,600
So it's a good little spot
to live, to be by yourself,
523
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,967
to control your thoughts,
your emotions,
524
00:28:30,967 --> 00:28:34,900
and to live the rest
of my life as god sees fit.
525
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:36,500
( Thunder rumbles )
526
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:39,800
As I look at
all these dark clouds
roaming in on me today,
527
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,033
it can very easily
remind me
528
00:28:42,033 --> 00:28:45,100
of may 5th, 1993.
529
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:47,533
This half was
a bright sunshiny day.
530
00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:50,800
This half became
gloom and doom
531
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,867
and as the death
and destruction
532
00:28:53,867 --> 00:28:56,066
rolled into
west Memphis, Arkansas,
533
00:28:56,066 --> 00:28:59,667
and consumed
three babies' life
and killed them,
534
00:28:59,667 --> 00:29:03,467
it's kind of like this
cloud front is rolling in
535
00:29:03,467 --> 00:29:06,166
and cooling off today
and consuming me
536
00:29:06,166 --> 00:29:10,100
as I stand here in the wind
amidst the storm.
537
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:13,467
And the storm
is what I have been in
for the last three years.
538
00:29:13,467 --> 00:29:16,900
But thank god
there's a bright side
on the other side.
539
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:19,300
I've been down
in a lot of low valleys
540
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:22,100
and people have tried
to take me out,
541
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:23,834
but I'm still here,
542
00:29:23,834 --> 00:29:27,233
Jessie, Jason, Damien.
543
00:29:27,233 --> 00:29:30,433
Those names ring
in my ears daily
544
00:29:30,433 --> 00:29:32,266
and I still hate you.
545
00:29:32,266 --> 00:29:35,166
Forever and a day
shall I still hate you.
546
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,567
Baldwin:
Byers, when he's
running around, cussing me
547
00:29:39,567 --> 00:29:41,867
and telling me that I should
go to hell and stuff,
548
00:29:41,867 --> 00:29:44,433
it seems like
he's play-acting.
549
00:29:44,433 --> 00:29:47,166
You know, trying to divert
the attention...
550
00:29:47,166 --> 00:29:51,300
trying to play
the role that he should be...
of an angered parent,
551
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,166
when really he's...
really I believe
552
00:29:54,166 --> 00:29:56,734
he's the one
that did it.
553
00:29:56,734 --> 00:29:59,500
The murders of three
west Memphis boys last year
554
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:01,166
shocked all of region 8.
555
00:30:01,166 --> 00:30:03,100
During the trials
earlier this year,
556
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:05,200
we empathized with
the parents and relatives
557
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,600
of those little boys.
558
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,200
And because
of television,
559
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,266
we were able to see
and hear the emotions
560
00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:12,100
those parents
were going through.
561
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:13,867
Now the parents
of one of the boys
562
00:30:13,867 --> 00:30:18,166
find themselves once again
under public scrutiny.
Jenna?
563
00:30:18,166 --> 00:30:20,266
Since the trials,
the Byers moved
564
00:30:20,266 --> 00:30:23,066
from west Memphis
to Cherokee village.
565
00:30:23,066 --> 00:30:25,367
Now they say they wanted
to start a new life,
566
00:30:25,367 --> 00:30:28,000
but now they face
criminal charges.
567
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,667
They're accused of taking
$20,000 worth of property
568
00:30:31,667 --> 00:30:33,867
from a neighbor's house.
569
00:30:33,867 --> 00:30:37,300
Police have witnesses
who claim they saw the Byers
570
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,100
loading stolen items
into their pickup truck.
571
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,333
And when police searched
the Byers' house,
572
00:30:42,333 --> 00:30:44,200
they found a few of them.
573
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,166
Mark and Melissa Byers face
additional charges
574
00:30:47,166 --> 00:30:48,900
in their old home town.
575
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:52,734
West Memphis police have
13 warrants for the Byers
576
00:30:52,734 --> 00:30:56,967
for allegedly writing
over $700 in bad checks.
577
00:30:56,967 --> 00:30:59,133
The Byers also face
other charges.
578
00:30:59,133 --> 00:31:01,900
When they moved
to Cherokee village,
579
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:04,667
the Byers became good friends
with their neighbors,
580
00:31:04,667 --> 00:31:06,700
John and Donna Kingsbury.
581
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:10,800
Problems began
when Mark spanked
the Kingsbury's five-year-old.
582
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,567
I took the fly swatter
and I just...
583
00:31:12,567 --> 00:31:14,600
on the...
just the plastic end,
584
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,367
just on the back
of his blue jeans.
585
00:31:16,367 --> 00:31:19,800
I said, "now you get home.
You've been a bad boy."
586
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,367
But the Kingsburys say
the whipping bruised their son.
587
00:31:23,367 --> 00:31:25,200
We did have to have
a restraining order
588
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,033
put on them, because I was
worried about my family.
589
00:31:30,033 --> 00:31:33,233
Newton:
Mark Byers' problems
began in July.
590
00:31:33,233 --> 00:31:35,633
He's been charged
with contributing
591
00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:37,433
to the delinquency
of a minor.
592
00:31:37,433 --> 00:31:40,200
Police say he stood by
holding a gun
593
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,567
and allowed a teenaged friend
to assault John shaver, Jr.
594
00:31:44,567 --> 00:31:46,066
According to a police report,
595
00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:49,667
the teenager used a closed
pocket knife in his fist
596
00:31:49,667 --> 00:31:51,100
to assault shaver.
597
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:54,567
The fight sent
shaver to the hospital
with a concussion.
598
00:31:54,567 --> 00:31:57,567
Byers admits
the knife was his.
599
00:31:57,567 --> 00:32:00,500
He also admits
there was a gun in his car.
600
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:02,834
The shavers say
Byers used the gun
601
00:32:02,834 --> 00:32:06,066
to prevent bystanders
from stopping the fight.
602
00:32:06,066 --> 00:32:07,467
I think
I'd be extremely...
603
00:32:07,467 --> 00:32:10,033
Newton:
Shaver's father
believes this raises
604
00:32:10,033 --> 00:32:12,066
serious questions
about Byers.
605
00:32:12,066 --> 00:32:15,533
There's a lot of people
that's talked to me about it,
which, I hate to say it,
606
00:32:15,533 --> 00:32:19,100
but they think maybe he
might have had something to do
with the... those murders.
607
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:22,433
Newton:
Mark Byers says
that's ridiculous,
608
00:32:22,433 --> 00:32:25,967
but these charges
and the questions
they dredge up
609
00:32:25,967 --> 00:32:29,700
may stick with
this family forever.
610
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,367
People are placing
a lot of emphasis on Mark
611
00:32:50,367 --> 00:32:53,000
and could
he have been a suspect.
612
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,100
And there again
it's the same question
that was asked to me,
613
00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:00,700
"did we pick Damien up
because he looked weird?"
614
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:02,400
Well, are we accusing
Mark Byers
615
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,834
because he has a ponytail
and looks a little weird
616
00:33:05,834 --> 00:33:09,934
and he's a big kind of guy
and is kind of boisterous?
617
00:33:09,934 --> 00:33:11,667
I mean, is that why
he's labeled as
618
00:33:11,667 --> 00:33:14,667
having something
to do with it? No.
619
00:33:14,667 --> 00:33:18,333
You have to look at the facts
and the facts are
620
00:33:18,333 --> 00:33:21,266
the three that we arrested
and that have been convicted
621
00:33:21,266 --> 00:33:22,900
are the ones
that did this.
622
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:26,066
Mark Byers didn't have anything
to do with this crime at all.
623
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Who did you receive
this knife from?
624
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,667
I received it
from, uh uh...
625
00:33:51,667 --> 00:33:54,567
how did I actually
receive it?
626
00:33:54,567 --> 00:33:56,934
No, who did you
receive the knife from?
627
00:33:56,934 --> 00:34:00,867
I received it
from, uh, Joe,
628
00:34:00,867 --> 00:34:04,834
and the people
with HBO productions.
629
00:34:04,834 --> 00:34:08,800
Here,
this red area here,
630
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,233
this is the shaft
of the penis
631
00:34:11,233 --> 00:34:14,033
and here is where the scrotal
sack and testes should be
632
00:34:14,033 --> 00:34:15,467
and they're missing.
633
00:34:15,467 --> 00:34:18,400
So what we have is that
the skin overlying the penis
634
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,567
and the head of the penis
has been carved off.
635
00:34:20,567 --> 00:34:21,967
It's gone.
It's not there.
636
00:34:21,967 --> 00:34:26,900
You can see, this is probably
the single worst case
637
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,166
of sexual
mutilation I've seen.
638
00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:32,767
This stab wound
right here?
639
00:34:32,767 --> 00:34:34,100
This one right here.
640
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,400
It's a nice
elliptical shape there?
641
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,300
Nice stab wound
right there?
642
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,767
See those little
sort of abrasions
643
00:34:41,767 --> 00:34:44,333
that come along the top there
and off the side there?
644
00:34:44,333 --> 00:34:47,934
- Stidham: Uh-huh.
- Those indicate movement.
645
00:34:47,934 --> 00:34:51,400
Now that is either
the person stabbing
the knife in and twisting it,
646
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,633
or the person who is
being stabbed is moving.
647
00:34:53,633 --> 00:34:55,867
And a lot of them, uh,
at all kinds of funny angles
648
00:34:55,867 --> 00:34:58,266
mean to me that the kid
was moving around.
649
00:34:58,266 --> 00:35:01,734
Dr. Peretti testified
at Misskelley's trial
in corning
650
00:35:01,734 --> 00:35:03,734
that this could have
been done with a knife
651
00:35:03,734 --> 00:35:06,033
or it could have been done
with a sharp piece of glass.
652
00:35:06,033 --> 00:35:09,734
Two weeks later he testifies
that this someone
653
00:35:09,734 --> 00:35:12,433
is someone who has a great deal
of knowledge of anatomy.
654
00:35:12,433 --> 00:35:16,066
- ( Chuckling )
- And that this penis is
skinned meticulously
655
00:35:16,066 --> 00:35:17,867
- which would take...
- Right.
656
00:35:17,867 --> 00:35:20,333
...a great deal of time
under laboratory conditions.
657
00:35:20,333 --> 00:35:21,934
What can you
tell me about that?
658
00:35:21,934 --> 00:35:24,033
On really close
examination...
659
00:35:24,033 --> 00:35:26,333
this is why I brought you
the magnifying glass...
660
00:35:26,333 --> 00:35:28,367
because I want you
to look right here.
661
00:35:28,367 --> 00:35:31,433
You can see the impression
of the handle of the knife
662
00:35:31,433 --> 00:35:34,700
as it is being plunged.
You see that little
squareness right there?
663
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:38,233
So whoever did this
went like this and grabbed it
and just went like that.
664
00:35:38,233 --> 00:35:39,667
And that's how
they cut it out.
665
00:35:39,667 --> 00:35:43,066
No precision, no accuracy,
no skill required to do that.
666
00:35:43,066 --> 00:35:45,133
And actually, to me,
it's consistent with
667
00:35:45,133 --> 00:35:48,633
a fishing knife that's got
the blade on one side
668
00:35:48,633 --> 00:35:50,867
and the serrated top
on the other.
669
00:35:50,867 --> 00:35:52,867
Because of the movement involved
and because of the depth,
670
00:35:52,867 --> 00:35:54,633
that right there
is something that
only somebody
671
00:35:54,633 --> 00:35:56,633
who is, like, really angry
is going to do.
672
00:35:56,633 --> 00:36:00,433
This is not... this is not
an act of deliberation
673
00:36:00,433 --> 00:36:02,934
or an act that's
well-thought-out
or well planned.
674
00:36:02,934 --> 00:36:05,667
- Is it an act of
sexual gratification?
- I don't believe so.
675
00:36:05,667 --> 00:36:07,734
I believe it's
an act of anger.
676
00:36:07,734 --> 00:36:10,333
Mr. Byers, I need
to ask you about
677
00:36:10,333 --> 00:36:12,433
defense exhibit
number e-6,
678
00:36:12,433 --> 00:36:15,934
this particular folding
lockblade kershaw knife.
679
00:36:15,934 --> 00:36:19,967
- If I can approach
the witness, your honor.
- Yes.
680
00:36:22,367 --> 00:36:25,934
So on January the 26th,
did Gitchell tell you,
681
00:36:25,934 --> 00:36:28,066
"let me explain
a problem we had
682
00:36:28,066 --> 00:36:30,066
and you need
to answer this for me,
683
00:36:30,066 --> 00:36:32,533
we have found blood
on this knife"?
684
00:36:32,533 --> 00:36:35,033
I don't remember if
he said there was or not.
685
00:36:35,033 --> 00:36:39,700
Did you have any idea how
human blood was on that knife?
686
00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:42,567
Well, yes,
I would have an idea.
I cut my thumb.
687
00:36:42,567 --> 00:36:45,867
All right, do you
recall stating,
688
00:36:45,867 --> 00:36:48,367
"I have no idea,
no idea
689
00:36:48,367 --> 00:36:51,500
how it could have
any human blood on it"?
690
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:54,100
- Do you recall
giving that answer?
- Yes sir.
691
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:58,467
Then do you recall stating,
"I don't even remember
nicking myself with it,
692
00:36:58,467 --> 00:37:00,667
cutting the deer meat
or anything"?
693
00:37:00,667 --> 00:37:03,066
- Is that the answer you gave?
- Yes sir.
694
00:37:03,066 --> 00:37:04,533
And is that the truth?
695
00:37:04,533 --> 00:37:07,200
I might not have
remembered it at that time
696
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,567
when he was
questioning me
697
00:37:08,567 --> 00:37:10,934
but I could have remembered it
later on in the day
698
00:37:10,934 --> 00:37:13,367
- and talked to him about it.
- Okay.
699
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:45,533
Michelle echols:
Mark Byers, everywhere he goes
trouble follows him.
700
00:37:45,533 --> 00:37:48,400
Didn't him and his wife
break in this house
701
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,567
and get these statues
and all this stuff?
702
00:37:50,567 --> 00:37:53,000
Yeah, and then they just
got slapped on the wrist.
703
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,834
And he can get into as much
trouble as he wants to get into
704
00:37:55,834 --> 00:37:58,100
and they just never
do anything to him.
705
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:00,967
Pam echols:
And he's apparently not
that great of a person
706
00:38:00,967 --> 00:38:03,300
because from hearing
people talk about
707
00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:05,100
places that
he wants to live
708
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:06,800
or houses that
he wants to get,
709
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,567
the neighborhood
freaks out
710
00:38:08,567 --> 00:38:10,467
and they don't want
him living there.
711
00:38:10,467 --> 00:38:13,967
Gail Grinnell:
I'll tell you what really
worries me about Mark Byers
712
00:38:13,967 --> 00:38:16,233
is he's got
a thing for knives,
713
00:38:16,233 --> 00:38:19,567
like the knife
he gave to HBO.
714
00:38:19,567 --> 00:38:21,767
And then later on
715
00:38:21,767 --> 00:38:25,100
he gives
a teenage boy a knife.
716
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,600
If you had a child that was
brutally murdered by a knife,
717
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,700
you wouldn't be
giving another kid
718
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,600
a knife to fight
another kid.
719
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,767
And then hold a gun on him
and make him do it?
720
00:38:36,767 --> 00:38:38,133
I mean...
721
00:38:38,133 --> 00:38:40,367
Pam:
Well, I wouldn't
go far enough to say
722
00:38:40,367 --> 00:38:42,600
that Mark Byers murdered
these little boys,
723
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,567
but I think he had
something to do with it
724
00:38:44,567 --> 00:38:47,333
and I just can't
figure out what.
725
00:38:47,333 --> 00:38:52,033
And I think
there's a lot of people
that probably do know.
726
00:38:52,033 --> 00:38:54,667
I had three or four people
come to my house
727
00:38:54,667 --> 00:38:59,066
to look me up to tell me
that they believe that
my son was innocent
728
00:38:59,066 --> 00:39:02,333
and that they personally
knew Mark Byers,
729
00:39:02,333 --> 00:39:06,333
and that they believed
that he was capable
730
00:39:06,333 --> 00:39:09,667
of doing
a crime like that.
731
00:39:09,667 --> 00:39:12,100
And they said they had
been to the police,
732
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:14,100
but the police
wouldn't listen.
733
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:18,700
And I feel really bad about
what happened to Melissa Byers
734
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:20,934
because it concerns me
735
00:39:20,934 --> 00:39:22,667
that maybe
she found out something
736
00:39:22,667 --> 00:39:24,600
that she shouldn't have.
737
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,300
And I'd like to know
what really happened to her.
738
00:39:40,633 --> 00:39:43,967
I wish you could have been here
to hear me sing lately.
739
00:39:43,967 --> 00:39:45,667
He liked to hear me sing.
740
00:39:45,667 --> 00:39:48,734
( Sniffs )
741
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,700
I think
his little Christmas tree
will stay there real well.
742
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:04,300
It's in there tight enough.
I don't think the wind will
blow it over or anything.
743
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,400
Come here and kneel
down here by me.
744
00:40:14,333 --> 00:40:16,500
( Music playing )
745
00:40:18,734 --> 00:40:22,867
Oh god, why did you
let this happen?
746
00:40:22,867 --> 00:40:26,033
Please help us through it.
747
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,500
God, please help us
through this.
748
00:41:24,767 --> 00:41:27,633
These are
for you, Melissa.
749
00:41:29,934 --> 00:41:34,266
I know how you love
red roses, baby.
750
00:41:35,533 --> 00:41:38,066
This is all
I can do for you.
751
00:41:39,767 --> 00:41:44,700
I know your heart
was broken.
752
00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:48,867
I know you couldn't stand
the death of your child.
753
00:41:50,066 --> 00:41:53,734
But, oh god, I wish
you hadn't left me.
754
00:41:55,834 --> 00:41:59,633
You remember when we were
on our honeymoon,
755
00:41:59,633 --> 00:42:02,467
how happy we were?
756
00:42:04,066 --> 00:42:06,800
( Crying )
We worked together.
We ate together.
757
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,800
We went everywhere together.
758
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,834
We weren't
husband and wife,
759
00:42:11,834 --> 00:42:15,500
we were best friends.
760
00:42:16,867 --> 00:42:20,834
I loved you
with all my heart.
761
00:42:23,834 --> 00:42:27,533
You remember when we opened
our jewelry store?
762
00:42:27,533 --> 00:42:30,300
We had finally
accomplished something.
763
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,867
Had two sons doing good,
a nice house,
764
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,300
a nice business,
765
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,533
two dogs and a cat.
766
00:42:43,533 --> 00:42:46,367
Just an average family,
767
00:42:46,367 --> 00:42:49,066
trying to live our lives
768
00:42:49,066 --> 00:42:51,400
the best we could.
769
00:42:52,900 --> 00:42:57,233
I can never put into words
how much I loved you.
770
00:43:00,767 --> 00:43:04,133
You were
everything to me.
771
00:43:04,133 --> 00:43:05,433
You were my life.
772
00:43:05,433 --> 00:43:09,500
I lived to see
you smile.
773
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:14,834
Those animals killed you.
774
00:43:16,133 --> 00:43:19,533
They're evil animals
and they killed you
775
00:43:19,533 --> 00:43:22,867
and I blame them
for your death.
776
00:43:22,867 --> 00:43:24,667
( Sniffling )
777
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,000
And all for you morons,
778
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,066
infidels and fools
779
00:43:33,066 --> 00:43:36,000
that think that I had
anything to do with it,
780
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,400
go to hell!
781
00:43:39,467 --> 00:43:41,900
Go to hell!
782
00:43:43,333 --> 00:43:47,066
I loved my wife more than
any man could love his wife
783
00:43:47,066 --> 00:43:49,867
on the face of the earth.
784
00:43:49,867 --> 00:43:52,367
I'd have died for her.
785
00:43:52,367 --> 00:43:55,800
I took care of her.
She was my life.
786
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,000
I didn't do anything
but love her.
787
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,133
And for all you sick
son of a bitches out there
788
00:44:05,133 --> 00:44:07,967
that think I had anything
to do with her life,
789
00:44:07,967 --> 00:44:09,967
go to hell!
790
00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:15,233
Go to hell.
791
00:44:15,233 --> 00:44:18,333
Think what you might,
792
00:44:18,333 --> 00:44:21,900
but you can kiss my ass!
793
00:44:23,467 --> 00:44:24,834
( Lock buzzes )
794
00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:29,734
Echols:
I can't understand
795
00:44:29,734 --> 00:44:32,600
why exactly people are
glossing over the obvious
796
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,333
when it comes to Byers
and the death of Melissa Byers
797
00:44:35,333 --> 00:44:39,233
and all the things
that Byers has said and done
798
00:44:39,233 --> 00:44:43,133
since this trial.
799
00:44:43,133 --> 00:44:45,800
I think maybe
for the general public,
800
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,266
it's not quite
as scary to believe
801
00:44:49,266 --> 00:44:53,133
that bloodthirsty satanists
were out murdering children
802
00:44:53,133 --> 00:44:56,767
as it is to believe that parents
are actually murdering
their own children.
803
00:45:11,166 --> 00:45:14,600
Now you're... you're aware
that you're here to take
a polygraph test today?
804
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,734
- Yes sir.
- And this is concerning
the deaths of three boys...
805
00:45:17,734 --> 00:45:20,333
- Yes sir.
- ...At west Memphis in 1993?
806
00:45:20,333 --> 00:45:25,166
- Yes sir.
- Okay, you're also aware
that this... a record,
807
00:45:25,166 --> 00:45:27,934
an audio and video
record is being made
of this procedure?
808
00:45:27,934 --> 00:45:30,233
- Correct, sir.
- You don't have any
problem with that?
809
00:45:30,233 --> 00:45:32,300
- No sir.
- If you do, I want
to know about it now
810
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:33,900
because I don't want
anything bothering you.
811
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:35,600
I don't have
any problem with it.
812
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,266
Okay, that sounds
good to me.
813
00:45:37,266 --> 00:45:39,367
Mark, what we're
going to do today,
814
00:45:39,367 --> 00:45:43,633
we're going to talk about
what happened in west Memphis.
815
00:45:43,633 --> 00:45:45,200
We're going
to talk about you,
816
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,367
- where you come from
and who you are.
- Okay, sir.
817
00:45:54,734 --> 00:45:56,567
What's your name...
your full name?
818
00:45:56,567 --> 00:46:01,266
John Mark Byers.
819
00:46:01,266 --> 00:46:04,166
- B-y-e-r?
- E-r-s, yes sir.
820
00:46:04,166 --> 00:46:05,567
Okay.
821
00:46:05,567 --> 00:46:08,166
What about your relationship
to Christopher?
822
00:46:08,166 --> 00:46:10,633
Uh, he was
my best buddy.
823
00:46:10,633 --> 00:46:14,500
Did you all...
did you all have disputes,
824
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:18,000
like all father and son
have, I'm sure?
825
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,400
Well, in the beginning,
of course, he was little.
826
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,834
But when he got up
to four or five,
827
00:46:23,834 --> 00:46:26,934
- he started having
behavior problems.
- Mm-hmm.
828
00:46:26,934 --> 00:46:29,433
And Melissa didn't know
what was wrong with him.
829
00:46:29,433 --> 00:46:31,667
I didn't know what
was wrong with him.
830
00:46:31,667 --> 00:46:34,900
In hindsight now,
I can look back and say,
831
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:38,133
"boy, if I had known that,
I'd have never spanked him
832
00:46:38,133 --> 00:46:40,467
or I'd have never
given him time out
833
00:46:40,467 --> 00:46:43,133
or I wouldn't have done
anything like that."
834
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:46,066
You say you spanked him.
What was your intent
when you spanked him?
835
00:46:46,066 --> 00:46:48,400
- Was it your intent
to hurt him?
- Oh, no sir.
836
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,266
- To discipline him?
- Discipline him.
837
00:46:50,266 --> 00:46:52,834
- Did you ever hurt him?
- No sir.
838
00:46:52,834 --> 00:46:56,000
Byers:
Son, I know there's
thousands of eyes
839
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,400
watching what
I'm going to do.
840
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,266
I know I made mistakes.
I'm not a perfect father,
841
00:47:01,266 --> 00:47:04,633
but I know I loved you
with all my heart.
842
00:47:04,633 --> 00:47:08,533
And I know I tried to keep you
from getting hurt.
843
00:47:08,533 --> 00:47:12,767
I know the times I had
to spank you or punish you
844
00:47:12,767 --> 00:47:15,800
it was 'cause
I loved you, son.
845
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,734
I loved you and I didn't
want anything terrible
to happen to you.
846
00:47:34,367 --> 00:47:37,233
With your knowledge
of the amount of blood
that was lost,
847
00:47:37,233 --> 00:47:39,433
from... not only Chris Byers
but these other boys
848
00:47:39,433 --> 00:47:42,433
who've had some pretty...
they're gonna bleed as well,
won't they?
849
00:47:42,433 --> 00:47:43,734
- Oh, yes.
- Okay.
850
00:47:43,734 --> 00:47:46,300
Do you have an opinion
as to whether or not
851
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:48,633
you could clean up
that amount of blood
852
00:47:48,633 --> 00:47:50,900
at a scene in the dark?
853
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:52,633
Do you have an opinion
as to that?
854
00:47:52,633 --> 00:47:54,734
I think it would be
quite difficult to do,
855
00:47:54,734 --> 00:47:57,767
to have injuries
of this nature
856
00:47:57,767 --> 00:47:59,600
without having any blood.
857
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:00,900
I mean, that's...
858
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:04,066
I would question that...
about the blood.
859
00:48:12,367 --> 00:48:14,166
One of the bodies was
860
00:48:14,166 --> 00:48:17,233
discovered in this area
right here.
861
00:48:17,233 --> 00:48:20,433
There's a place up
there on the hill
862
00:48:20,433 --> 00:48:23,100
where those two trees
grow together
right there.
863
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,800
- Mm-hmm.
- That was one of the other
reference points
864
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,200
on the crime-scene
diagram.
865
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:34,433
The prosecution,
their theory was
866
00:48:34,433 --> 00:48:38,967
that the murders occurred
here in the creek bank.
867
00:48:38,967 --> 00:48:41,467
And that actually...
868
00:48:41,467 --> 00:48:43,867
that actually the homicides
took place here
869
00:48:43,867 --> 00:48:46,633
on this little
kind of plateau area.
870
00:48:46,633 --> 00:48:49,467
And that the defendants
871
00:48:49,467 --> 00:48:52,033
threw water up on the bank
and washed all the blood away.
872
00:48:52,033 --> 00:48:53,900
The water was
about this high.
873
00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:57,000
And the theory
being that the water,
it would hit the bodies
874
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,467
- and wash the blood
back into the river?
- And wash away the evidence.
875
00:49:00,467 --> 00:49:02,300
( Incredulous chuckle )
Okay.
876
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:04,333
I'm not sure exactly
how that would work,
877
00:49:04,333 --> 00:49:07,066
or why they would think
it would work.
878
00:49:07,066 --> 00:49:09,667
Unless they had someone
throwing water at the same time
879
00:49:09,667 --> 00:49:11,500
the, uh, castration...
880
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:13,600
you can use a garden hose
on the bodies
881
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,800
and you wouldn't get
all the blood away.
882
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,667
That's like... there would
have been so much blood,
883
00:49:18,667 --> 00:49:20,667
the amount of blood
at this crime scene,
884
00:49:20,667 --> 00:49:23,800
if this had been the place
where Chris Byers alone
was emasculated,
885
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,800
there would have been
so much more blood
than that.
886
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,233
Plus they wouldn't have
been able to see it.
It would have been
887
00:49:28,233 --> 00:49:30,633
an incomplete job.
So this is only
a disposal site.
888
00:49:30,633 --> 00:49:33,767
Two of the kids did die here
because they were put in
the water and they drowned,
889
00:49:33,767 --> 00:49:38,033
but this is
a disposal site only,
not a primary crime scene.
890
00:49:46,734 --> 00:49:49,266
I'd have to say
that the making
891
00:49:49,266 --> 00:49:52,467
of the film
"paradise lost" was...
892
00:49:54,667 --> 00:49:57,667
was a new situation
for the court
893
00:49:57,667 --> 00:50:00,834
and I'm sure for all
of the lawyers involved.
894
00:50:00,834 --> 00:50:04,166
I think I had indicated
to the producers earlier
895
00:50:04,166 --> 00:50:08,800
that if either the defense
or the prosecution had objected,
896
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,433
there wouldn't have been
any filming in the courtroom.
897
00:50:13,734 --> 00:50:16,433
But if I had the decision
to do over again
898
00:50:16,433 --> 00:50:18,667
as to whether
a documentary was made,
899
00:50:18,667 --> 00:50:21,467
I probably
would not allow it.
900
00:50:21,467 --> 00:50:24,834
- Woman: Tim.
- Well, Beth, right now
the new attorneys,
901
00:50:24,834 --> 00:50:27,166
the appellate attorneys
for Damien echols
902
00:50:27,166 --> 00:50:29,834
are conducting a hearing
inside this courtroom.
903
00:50:29,834 --> 00:50:32,734
They have on the stand
a lawyer who represented
904
00:50:32,734 --> 00:50:36,000
one of Echol's
co-defendants at trial,
905
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,667
uh, a few years ago.
906
00:50:37,667 --> 00:50:39,300
What they're
trying to do
907
00:50:39,300 --> 00:50:41,667
is establish that
the trial lawyers in this case
908
00:50:41,667 --> 00:50:43,266
who represented
Damien echols
909
00:50:43,266 --> 00:50:45,900
were ineffective,
that they were incompetent.
910
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:48,700
The main argument is that
they had a conflict of interest
911
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:52,433
because they agreed
to cooperate with filmmakers
912
00:50:52,433 --> 00:50:54,934
who were making
a documentary about the case,
913
00:50:54,934 --> 00:50:57,767
an award-winning documentary
called "paradise lost."
914
00:50:57,767 --> 00:51:01,533
It was produced by HBO.
The argument these attorneys
are going to make
915
00:51:01,533 --> 00:51:03,800
is that because Damien echols'
trial lawyers
916
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,100
made an agreement to cooperate
with those filmmakers...
917
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,367
and the allegation is
that they accepted money
from those filmmakers...
918
00:51:12,367 --> 00:51:14,567
that that created
a conflict of interest
919
00:51:14,567 --> 00:51:18,233
which made them
incompetent and ineffective
920
00:51:18,233 --> 00:51:21,367
to assist Damien echols
at trial.
921
00:51:21,367 --> 00:51:24,000
We expect that when
the prosecutors cross-examine
922
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,133
the lawyers who represented
Damien echols,
923
00:51:26,133 --> 00:51:27,934
those lawyers
will testify that
924
00:51:27,934 --> 00:51:31,266
they did not make a deal to take
money from the filmmakers.
925
00:51:31,266 --> 00:51:33,000
That the agreement was that
926
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,867
the filmmakers would provide
money for a trust fund
927
00:51:35,867 --> 00:51:37,300
for the defendants,
928
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:39,667
that the money did not
go to the attorneys.
929
00:51:39,667 --> 00:51:41,200
It was not
for the attorneys
930
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,200
and it did not create
a conflict of interest.
931
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,200
That will be the argument
the prosecutors are
going to draw out
932
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,700
to try to make sure this
conviction stands up.
933
00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:51,600
I think one of the ironies
about this motion is that
934
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,700
a lot of the lawyers
who are involved in it now,
935
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,500
Ed Mallett,
Barry Scheck, Bob Fogelnest,
high-profile lawyers...
936
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:02,800
never would have
heard of this case before
the documentary came out.
937
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,433
Okay?
938
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:14,967
Man: Okay.
939
00:52:22,567 --> 00:52:24,166
Okay?
940
00:52:24,166 --> 00:52:27,400
( Speaking softly )
Can you tell me much about
your interview with him?
941
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,233
My interview with him?
Yeah, you know I'll
send you a...
942
00:52:30,233 --> 00:52:32,033
I can send you a copy
of the piece we did,
943
00:52:32,033 --> 00:52:34,800
- based on the interview.
- Really? Man, I'd love
to have it.
944
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,400
It's basically, you know,
we talked about death row,
945
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,066
what it's like to be
on death row, et cetera.
946
00:52:39,066 --> 00:52:42,200
- Um, you know...
- was his hair still long then?
947
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,066
Oh, yeah, his hair was
like down to here.
948
00:52:44,066 --> 00:52:46,800
Yeah. That's what
it looked like when
he was here last.
949
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,867
I guess they wanted
to clean him up
950
00:52:48,867 --> 00:52:50,633
and make him
look presentable.
951
00:52:50,633 --> 00:52:53,533
- He said that
wearing a white shirt...
- he had long fingernails too.
952
00:52:53,533 --> 00:52:56,133
He said wearing
a white shirt really
gave him a headache,
953
00:52:56,133 --> 00:52:58,734
so I know it's
just killing him sitting
there in the courtroom.
954
00:52:58,734 --> 00:53:01,166
He said white was
on the good side
955
00:53:01,166 --> 00:53:03,300
and he liked to stay
on the dark side.
956
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:04,900
He didn't
say that to me.
957
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:15,233
Reporter:
When you were going
through the treatment
958
00:53:15,233 --> 00:53:17,500
that you were going through
that led you to file that suit,
959
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:20,467
how did you finally get
to the point where you
did file it,
960
00:53:20,467 --> 00:53:23,333
talk to the lawyers,
et cetera?
961
00:53:27,767 --> 00:53:29,633
I don't really even know.
962
00:53:29,633 --> 00:53:31,166
I mean, it's...
963
00:53:33,133 --> 00:53:35,333
Umm...
964
00:53:35,333 --> 00:53:39,800
One day you wake up
and you figure out,
965
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,166
"what's the worst thing
they can do to you?
966
00:53:43,166 --> 00:53:45,166
Kill you?"
967
00:53:46,734 --> 00:53:48,934
I mean, I'm sitting here
on death row anyway.
968
00:53:48,934 --> 00:53:51,734
What else were
they going to do to me?
969
00:53:51,734 --> 00:53:53,567
You don't have
anything to lose
970
00:53:53,567 --> 00:53:56,033
when you're
in a situation like that.
971
00:53:56,033 --> 00:53:58,567
( Music playing )
972
00:54:07,066 --> 00:54:09,133
Pam:
I went to see Damien
yesterday.
973
00:54:09,133 --> 00:54:12,767
And for the first time
in four years, I got
to touch him.
974
00:54:12,767 --> 00:54:14,266
I got to hug him.
975
00:54:14,266 --> 00:54:16,734
And it was hard to believe
how much he had grown...
976
00:54:16,734 --> 00:54:19,533
taller... he was at least
a head taller than I was.
977
00:54:19,533 --> 00:54:22,734
I can't believe you
had to go all that time
978
00:54:22,734 --> 00:54:25,433
without even being able
to give him a hug.
979
00:54:25,433 --> 00:54:28,300
He's 20-something years old
but he's still my baby.
980
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:32,333
And that's what
it felt like when I put
my arms around him.
981
00:54:32,333 --> 00:54:35,367
And then he sat down.
You could tell he was
really nervous
982
00:54:35,367 --> 00:54:38,567
because he's been out...
by himself for so long.
983
00:54:38,567 --> 00:54:40,266
Grinnell: Yeah.
984
00:54:40,266 --> 00:54:44,266
He was having
a really hard time
being around people.
985
00:54:46,266 --> 00:54:50,066
I was allowed
to visit with Jason
after he was sentenced
986
00:54:50,066 --> 00:54:54,500
and it was the first
contact visit we had
had in a year.
987
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:58,133
It was just...
it was thrilling
to be able to hug him
988
00:54:58,133 --> 00:55:02,033
but then I had to let him go
and go to this horrible place
989
00:55:02,033 --> 00:55:06,266
for something he didn't do.
990
00:55:06,266 --> 00:55:08,367
When I start thinking about
991
00:55:08,367 --> 00:55:10,834
what all they
go through in prison,
992
00:55:10,834 --> 00:55:13,633
my mind... I just
can't handle it.
993
00:55:13,633 --> 00:55:15,567
You know, I just
start freaking out
994
00:55:15,567 --> 00:55:19,166
when I try to start imagining
what Jason's life must be like
995
00:55:19,166 --> 00:55:21,166
or Damien life's
must be like.
996
00:55:21,166 --> 00:55:24,000
Pam:
I heard a lot of stuff
that had happened to Damien,
997
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,400
but it's really
really hard to deal with.
998
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,834
You're in a position
where you can't do anything.
999
00:55:30,834 --> 00:55:34,800
And if you stop
and think about it very much,
1000
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,066
some of the things
that are done to him...
1001
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,834
It-it... I think it could
make you lose your mind,
1002
00:55:42,834 --> 00:55:46,100
knowing that something
like that's being done
to your child.
1003
00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:49,934
Because what's happened
to them in prison,
it's gonna...
1004
00:55:49,934 --> 00:55:53,300
it's gonna affect them
for the rest of their lives.
1005
00:55:53,300 --> 00:55:55,834
When they come home,
it will never be...
1006
00:55:55,834 --> 00:55:58,166
it'll never be
like it ever was.
1007
00:55:58,166 --> 00:56:00,667
Because these...
1008
00:56:00,667 --> 00:56:03,233
these boys were
just children too.
1009
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:08,033
Whenever these
little boys were murdered,
1010
00:56:08,033 --> 00:56:11,000
our boys were
just children too.
1011
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,567
Grinnell:
I never knew what
hell could be like
1012
00:56:14,567 --> 00:56:16,867
until these
last four years.
1013
00:56:16,867 --> 00:56:19,033
My whole life
has changed.
1014
00:56:19,033 --> 00:56:21,667
I lost my home,
1015
00:56:21,667 --> 00:56:24,667
my job.
1016
00:56:25,734 --> 00:56:28,533
Nothing seems
to matter anymore.
1017
00:56:28,533 --> 00:56:32,133
Kind of like that song.
I got a song I dedicated
to Jason.
1018
00:56:32,133 --> 00:56:35,133
It's "nothing else matters"
by Metallica.
1019
00:56:35,133 --> 00:56:37,433
That's my song to him,
because really,
1020
00:56:37,433 --> 00:56:38,967
I feel like most of the time
1021
00:56:38,967 --> 00:56:42,100
nothing else matters to me
but getting Jason home
1022
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:44,900
and I just don't
know how I do it.
1023
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:47,467
Damien, when our
visiting time's over
1024
00:56:47,467 --> 00:56:51,133
he always stands up
and puts his hand
against the glass
1025
00:56:51,133 --> 00:56:54,800
for me to put mine
against his.
1026
00:56:56,700 --> 00:57:01,000
We're not actually touching,
but we are.
1027
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,767
It's in the heart anyway.
1028
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:10,633
♪ So close
no matter how far ♪
1029
00:57:10,633 --> 00:57:15,400
♪ couldn't be much more
from the heart ♪
1030
00:57:16,567 --> 00:57:20,700
♪ forever trusting
who we are ♪
1031
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:25,600
♪ and nothing else
matters. ♪
1032
00:57:32,567 --> 00:57:35,467
Interviewer:
If you could speak
to the families
1033
00:57:35,467 --> 00:57:39,100
of these kids
who think you did it,
1034
00:57:39,100 --> 00:57:42,533
you know, what would
you say to them?
1035
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:55,400
I don't know.
1036
00:57:57,433 --> 00:58:01,567
If I could talk to the families
of the victims right now,
1037
00:58:01,567 --> 00:58:04,133
I don't know really
what I'd say.
1038
00:58:04,133 --> 00:58:08,266
Just... they were led
to believe by the police
1039
00:58:08,266 --> 00:58:11,633
that we'd done it
and so I understand
that they hate us,
1040
00:58:11,633 --> 00:58:13,166
you know, hate me,
1041
00:58:13,166 --> 00:58:15,433
but I didn't do it,
you know.
1042
00:58:15,433 --> 00:58:17,333
I didn't have
anything to do with it.
1043
00:58:17,333 --> 00:58:20,700
I'm sorry that
your kids are dead.
I'm sorry about that.
1044
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:22,800
I'm really
sorry about all that
1045
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,800
'cause I don't have a kid,
but if I was my little brother,
1046
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,567
I'd be real angry
at whoever had done it.
1047
00:58:28,567 --> 00:58:31,533
But all I ask is
1048
00:58:31,533 --> 00:58:34,800
y'all go back
and look at the evidence.
1049
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,533
Just stop and think and don't
let your emotions about it all
1050
00:58:39,533 --> 00:58:41,166
get to your head.
1051
00:58:41,166 --> 00:58:43,600
Just stop and think
and look back at the evidence
1052
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,100
and look where
the evidence does point.
1053
00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:47,767
And ask yourself,
1054
00:58:47,767 --> 00:58:50,433
"now who do you think
really done it?"
1055
00:58:50,433 --> 00:58:52,533
You know, because...
1056
00:58:52,533 --> 00:58:56,200
It was a great tragedy
that your kids was killed,
1057
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,367
but it's also
another great tragedy
1058
00:58:58,367 --> 00:59:01,367
that American citizens,
anybody in today's public
1059
00:59:01,367 --> 00:59:03,967
can just be picked up
for a crime they didn't commit
1060
00:59:03,967 --> 00:59:06,633
and be convicted of it
without no evidence.
1061
00:59:06,633 --> 00:59:08,600
That's another tragedy.
1062
00:59:12,433 --> 00:59:14,200
On this particular case
1063
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,166
you have the fortune
of having what appears
to be bite-Mark evidence
1064
00:59:17,166 --> 00:59:21,266
right there on the face that
was not originally mentioned,
documented or what have you.
1065
00:59:21,266 --> 00:59:25,367
But these type
of bite marks are...
there are two kinds...
1066
00:59:25,367 --> 00:59:27,400
wait a minute.
Are you talking
about bite marks
1067
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,867
- on the outside
of this victim's face?
- That's right.
1068
00:59:29,867 --> 00:59:31,767
- Not superficial
bite marks...
- No.
1069
00:59:31,767 --> 00:59:34,233
...on the inside of their mouth
caused by their own teeth?
1070
00:59:34,233 --> 00:59:36,533
Not superficial
on the inside caused
by their own teeth.
1071
00:59:36,533 --> 00:59:38,467
There are what appears
to be bite marks
1072
00:59:38,467 --> 00:59:40,767
all over certain parts
of these children's bodies.
1073
00:59:40,767 --> 00:59:43,000
Well, did he miss that?
Or did he...
1074
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,767
- I don't remember seeing it.
- It's not in the
autopsy report.
1075
00:59:45,767 --> 00:59:49,600
And the great thing
about bite-Mark evidence is
bite-Mark evidence is like...
1076
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,567
it's just as good
as a fingerprint
and it's better than DNA.
1077
00:59:53,567 --> 00:59:58,233
Because bite-Mark evidence
indicates a specific person
1078
00:59:58,233 --> 01:00:01,000
committing a specific behavior.
The bite Mark indicates
1079
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,333
that you bit somebody
at a certain spot
at a certain time.
1080
01:00:03,333 --> 01:00:06,433
So if we have somebody biting
this individual here...
a certain person...
1081
01:00:06,433 --> 01:00:08,934
we have a specific behavior
tied to a specific person.
1082
01:00:08,934 --> 01:00:11,734
So that's
the best kind of evidence,
as far as I'm concerned
1083
01:00:11,734 --> 01:00:13,166
for this type of crime.
1084
01:00:13,166 --> 01:00:17,533
Whenever you have teeth marks,
it's typically...
1085
01:00:17,533 --> 01:00:20,333
if you were to show this
to an emergency-room pathologist
1086
01:00:20,333 --> 01:00:23,066
who'd seen a lot of these,
he would arrest the mom,
1087
01:00:23,066 --> 01:00:25,166
because it's more
typically resembling
1088
01:00:25,166 --> 01:00:27,934
the type that's involved
in cases of child abuse.
1089
01:00:27,934 --> 01:00:32,100
We have a mother
of a victim who is
no longer alive.
1090
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:36,233
- Right.
- Melissa Byers has been dead
since march of '96.
1091
01:00:36,233 --> 01:00:39,066
I don't see any reason
why her autopsy
1092
01:00:39,066 --> 01:00:42,200
should still be...
be sealed.
1093
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,066
They claim they
are still conducting
a criminal investigation,
1094
01:00:45,066 --> 01:00:49,233
but, uh, how long
does it take to...
1095
01:00:49,233 --> 01:00:51,166
again in this
particular case,
1096
01:00:51,166 --> 01:00:54,066
since what
you've told me is that
the death is undetermined,
1097
01:00:54,066 --> 01:00:56,633
they can keep it open
as long as they want.
1098
01:00:56,633 --> 01:00:59,900
But the problem is,
if they are keeping it open,
1099
01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:02,967
that means they don't know
whether it's a suicide
or a homicide
1100
01:01:02,967 --> 01:01:06,400
and that means
it's undetermined which means
it's an equivocal death.
1101
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,266
But it's important to this case.
And the reason I originally
asked you for the materials
1102
01:01:10,266 --> 01:01:13,567
is because I'd like
to know if there's a connection.
I'd like to see her wounds.
1103
01:01:13,567 --> 01:01:15,367
I'd like to see if
there's any wounds on her.
1104
01:01:15,367 --> 01:01:18,600
I'd like to see if
there's a connection between
this case and that case.
1105
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,100
And the reality is that
I would like also...
1106
01:01:21,100 --> 01:01:25,133
Also if you get
a forensic odontologist
in here at any point in time,
1107
01:01:25,133 --> 01:01:27,533
they can yank her teeth
and see if they match
1108
01:01:27,533 --> 01:01:29,400
any of the bite-Mark
impressions.
1109
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,967
Because we need to, at least...
if there's nothing wrong,
if there's no connection,
1110
01:01:32,967 --> 01:01:36,300
we need to establish
that there's no connection
to these deaths.
1111
01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:42,600
Byers:
I've wondered why
it's been almost two years...
1112
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,767
and I have called everybody
they've told me to call
1113
01:01:45,767 --> 01:01:48,266
about getting
a death certificate
1114
01:01:48,266 --> 01:01:51,934
or an autopsy report on my wife
and they won't release it.
1115
01:01:51,934 --> 01:01:55,166
The newspaper people
have called... they won't
release it.
1116
01:01:55,166 --> 01:01:58,100
They want to say
it's still pending.
What's still pending?
1117
01:01:58,100 --> 01:02:01,233
If they can't say
cause of death wasn't
anything but a heart attack,
1118
01:02:01,233 --> 01:02:05,033
all they've said was
a prescription medication
that she was taking
1119
01:02:05,033 --> 01:02:07,934
was found in her bloodstream
and a foreign drug.
1120
01:02:07,934 --> 01:02:10,934
They never would release
what the foreign drug was.
1121
01:02:10,934 --> 01:02:13,066
I don't know.
1122
01:02:13,066 --> 01:02:15,867
I mean, I don't know
what caused her to die.
1123
01:02:15,867 --> 01:02:20,033
They won't tell me.
And I think that just
gives people suspicion.
1124
01:02:20,033 --> 01:02:22,834
The police up there,
they didn't care about us.
1125
01:02:22,834 --> 01:02:24,567
They didn't care
about her dying
1126
01:02:24,567 --> 01:02:26,633
and they're still
throwing gas on the fire
1127
01:02:26,633 --> 01:02:28,500
because if there
ain't nothing to hide,
1128
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:31,667
why won't they give me
the paperwork that
I'm entitled to?
1129
01:02:31,667 --> 01:02:33,800
Man:
Either that or bring
charges against you...
1130
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,867
- either one or the other.
- They ain't got no charges
1131
01:02:35,867 --> 01:02:37,700
to bring against me because
I didn't do nothing.
1132
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:40,867
I know that, I know.
You know, I ain't got
a doubt in my mind on that,
1133
01:02:40,867 --> 01:02:43,800
but that's... that's...
like you said, that's
not the point.
1134
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,567
Two years and they
won't release it.
1135
01:02:46,567 --> 01:02:49,700
They're just holding it open
so people can sit out here
1136
01:02:49,700 --> 01:02:51,767
and draw their
own conclusions
1137
01:02:51,767 --> 01:02:54,800
and tell it like
they want it to go.
1138
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:57,233
Because people would rather
talk any day of the week
1139
01:02:57,233 --> 01:03:00,467
about somebody else
than sit and talk about
their own problems.
1140
01:03:00,467 --> 01:03:04,567
I mean, what do you
think it makes me feel like
when I hear people say,
1141
01:03:04,567 --> 01:03:06,333
"I believe you
killed Christopher.
1142
01:03:06,333 --> 01:03:08,633
I believe you
had something to do
with killing Melissa"?
1143
01:03:08,633 --> 01:03:11,800
I can't tell you
how it hurts.
1144
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,367
Man, it tears me apart.
1145
01:03:13,367 --> 01:03:16,133
And go into a grocery store,
go anywhere,
1146
01:03:16,133 --> 01:03:18,300
and I'm subject to walking
into a fool who'll say that.
1147
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,100
You all been with me
when people walk up and say
"don't I know you?
1148
01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:24,133
- Wasn't you
the baby-killer on TV?"
- Man #2: Yeah.
1149
01:03:24,133 --> 01:03:26,333
Well, I've been
in two fights myself
over it.
1150
01:03:26,333 --> 01:03:27,600
Byers:
What was it?
1151
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,266
Well, at a bar one night
there in marked tree,
1152
01:03:30,266 --> 01:03:32,967
a dude come up and said,
"yeah, that sorry Mark Byers.
1153
01:03:32,967 --> 01:03:36,834
Hell, them boys
didn't kill his kid.
He was in on that.
1154
01:03:36,834 --> 01:03:39,100
He was probably
the ringleader on it."
1155
01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,667
Uh, excuse my French,
but I stomped his ass
right there on the spot.
1156
01:03:42,667 --> 01:03:45,433
Byers:
You know, I've had
an ignorant woman,
1157
01:03:45,433 --> 01:03:47,734
she was a schoolteacher
there in west Memphis,
1158
01:03:47,734 --> 01:03:51,967
taught Jessie Misskelley
in his G.E.D.... You know,
his alternative school?
1159
01:03:51,967 --> 01:03:56,200
- Yeah.
- And this woman showed
the movie "paradise lost"
1160
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,533
and talked about
how that I was basically
guilty for it,
1161
01:03:59,533 --> 01:04:03,533
and that the police
and everything framed them three
1162
01:04:03,533 --> 01:04:04,834
and there was no cult,
1163
01:04:04,834 --> 01:04:08,033
and Jessie Misskelley
was a good loving boy
1164
01:04:08,033 --> 01:04:10,533
and just such a kind person.
1165
01:04:10,533 --> 01:04:13,600
Those three animals
took my baby from me
1166
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,633
and they took
my wife from me.
1167
01:04:15,633 --> 01:04:17,333
And I self-destructed.
1168
01:04:17,333 --> 01:04:20,500
And, buddy,
I'm telling you about it,
I got downright mean.
1169
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,400
The pain
they've caused me,
1170
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,200
it cost me physically
and mentally
1171
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,367
and all the fights
and all that I got into
1172
01:04:27,367 --> 01:04:29,033
because I went
to looking for them,
1173
01:04:29,033 --> 01:04:30,900
and the bricks that
hit me in the head
1174
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:34,734
and the knives that cut
these scars on my face
1175
01:04:34,734 --> 01:04:37,033
and the jerks that
had the privilege
1176
01:04:37,033 --> 01:04:39,166
of knocking teeth
out of my mouth,
1177
01:04:39,166 --> 01:04:41,266
well, that's because
of them three animals
1178
01:04:41,266 --> 01:04:44,934
that provoked me so
to get into a violent
rage like I had.
1179
01:04:44,934 --> 01:04:47,333
And that's what it cost me...
a whole set of teeth.
1180
01:04:47,333 --> 01:04:50,233
But that's all right
because they're gonna
pay for it.
1181
01:04:50,233 --> 01:04:52,433
And I can't imagine
why people
1182
01:04:52,433 --> 01:04:54,533
want to say the things
that they say about me.
1183
01:04:54,533 --> 01:04:56,300
I mean, what do
you all think?
1184
01:04:56,300 --> 01:05:00,533
Why the hell do people
want to try to accuse me
of being involved in that?
1185
01:05:00,533 --> 01:05:02,500
You've always been
an out-front person.
1186
01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:04,200
You've been a leader,
not a follower.
1187
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,066
I was not meaning
to be an individual...
1188
01:05:06,066 --> 01:05:08,066
man #2:
Well no, but you
could have been.
1189
01:05:08,066 --> 01:05:11,333
I mean, you could be mean
when mean gets mean.
You can get mean.
1190
01:05:11,333 --> 01:05:13,767
- You've always been that way.
- People just don't know you.
1191
01:05:13,767 --> 01:05:16,166
It's the only reason
they're talking like
they are about you.
1192
01:05:16,166 --> 01:05:19,500
Because if they
knew anything about you,
they wouldn't be saying it.
1193
01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:22,633
And I can't tell you all how
much I love you, you know,
1194
01:05:22,633 --> 01:05:26,734
for being closer than a brother,
but always being there for me.
1195
01:05:26,734 --> 01:05:28,734
I've been there
and I'm gonna be there
1196
01:05:28,734 --> 01:05:32,700
- and I'll be there until...
until hell freezes over.
- I know you will.
1197
01:05:32,700 --> 01:05:34,734
If you
wasn't worthy of it,
it wouldn't be there.
1198
01:05:34,734 --> 01:05:37,633
- You've got my word on that.
- You ain't giving me nothing
for nothing, are you?
1199
01:05:37,633 --> 01:05:40,066
- No, sir.
- Ain't nothing
for free, is it?
1200
01:05:40,066 --> 01:05:41,767
- Huh-uh.
- And have I paid my dues?
1201
01:05:41,767 --> 01:05:43,900
- Yes sir, you sure have.
- You're damned right.
1202
01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:47,734
- You damned right.
- And the world needs to know
about it, don't they?
1203
01:05:47,734 --> 01:05:50,133
- They sure do.
- They need to know the truth
1204
01:05:50,133 --> 01:05:53,000
and that's what
we's sitting here
talking about is the truth.
1205
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,900
- That's right.
- And the devil-worshipping
son of a bitches
1206
01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:58,100
are the murderers
out there, not the victims.
1207
01:05:58,100 --> 01:06:01,300
- There it is.
- And there's three families
that's victims.
1208
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:05,667
And I'd just like
to catch those three.
1209
01:06:05,667 --> 01:06:09,200
If you ever get within arm's
reach of this arm right here,
1210
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,367
you a paid-for
son of a bitch.
1211
01:06:11,367 --> 01:06:13,667
You've got
my word on it.
1212
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,867
Female reporter:
Damien, how much hope do you
have of a favorable ruling?
1213
01:06:29,867 --> 01:06:32,266
I know this is
hard on you.
1214
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,367
Why is it so important
for you to be here,
1215
01:06:37,367 --> 01:06:39,200
for your son to see you
in the courtroom?
1216
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,333
There's no reason
for them to be here.
They were falsely accused.
1217
01:06:42,333 --> 01:06:45,467
The west Memphis
police department
did a botched job
1218
01:06:45,467 --> 01:06:47,166
just to get
these boys arrested.
1219
01:06:47,166 --> 01:06:50,166
Somebody had
to be arrested.
It's ridiculous.
1220
01:06:50,166 --> 01:06:53,767
- Do you feel like the HBO film
affected this case?
- I think it helped a lot.
1221
01:06:53,767 --> 01:06:55,633
- Woman: You think it helped?
- Yes, I do.
1222
01:06:55,633 --> 01:06:58,266
- Woman: It helped your son?
- Yes, I think so.
1223
01:06:58,266 --> 01:06:59,700
- Why's that?
- Woman: How is that?
1224
01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:02,266
Um, I just think that it
shows enough of both sides
1225
01:07:02,266 --> 01:07:04,333
to where
1226
01:07:04,333 --> 01:07:07,433
you can kind of see
a personal side of Damien.
1227
01:07:07,433 --> 01:07:09,967
Do you feel like
that his attorneys,
1228
01:07:09,967 --> 01:07:13,367
that his former attorney
did not do an adequate job?
1229
01:07:13,367 --> 01:07:16,667
Well, from what I'm seeing,
it looks like he didn't.
1230
01:07:16,667 --> 01:07:18,600
What is the personal
side of Damien?
1231
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,000
- Um...
- You know him
better than anyone.
1232
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,800
He's very much
like myself.
1233
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,433
He usually keeps
to himself
1234
01:07:24,433 --> 01:07:26,867
and he doesn't really ever
bother anyone.
1235
01:07:26,867 --> 01:07:28,934
We're both very private.
1236
01:07:28,934 --> 01:07:31,367
Man:
So what do you hope happens
when this wraps up?
1237
01:07:31,367 --> 01:07:35,900
I hope everyone can
see this for the joke
that it really is.
1238
01:07:37,100 --> 01:07:38,600
Okay.
1239
01:07:46,266 --> 01:07:48,133
Director:
Five seconds.
1240
01:07:48,133 --> 01:07:51,600
3:30, Tim, 3:30.
Two seconds.
1241
01:07:58,233 --> 01:08:00,367
Daniel stidham...
he defended
1242
01:08:00,367 --> 01:08:04,000
one of the three individuals
convicted in this case,
Jessie Misskelley.
1243
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,133
Thank you for being with us.
All right, Damien echols...
1244
01:08:07,133 --> 01:08:11,500
Uh, he received money
which was supposed to aid
in his defense.
1245
01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:15,967
How does this harm his trial,
his right to a fair trail?
1246
01:08:15,967 --> 01:08:18,367
In my opinion,
Gregg, it didn't.
1247
01:08:18,367 --> 01:08:23,000
I-i... I personally don't
subscribe to that point of view.
1248
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,767
Gregg Jarre interesting.
Let me turn now to ray brown
1249
01:08:25,767 --> 01:08:29,233
who is a veteran criminal
defense attorney and our
colleague here at court TV.
1250
01:08:29,233 --> 01:08:31,233
Is there a conflict
of interest here?
1251
01:08:31,233 --> 01:08:34,367
Mr. Stidham, who was
involved in it himself,
doesn't think so.
1252
01:08:34,367 --> 01:08:36,700
Let's get to the real question,
Gregg, which is that
1253
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:40,367
because this country is,
in many areas, so strongly
in favor of death penalty
1254
01:08:40,367 --> 01:08:44,066
that we underfund the defense.
I think Mr. Stidham can tell you
1255
01:08:44,066 --> 01:08:46,266
that he earned
something like $19 an hour
1256
01:08:46,266 --> 01:08:48,166
for his representation
of his client.
1257
01:08:48,166 --> 01:08:51,200
The lawyers for echols
got a little bit more,
1258
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,300
but nowhere near
the money needed...
1259
01:08:53,300 --> 01:08:55,500
and $1,000 limit
on money for experts
1260
01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:58,433
in a case that
is fairly saturated
with scientific proof.
1261
01:08:58,433 --> 01:09:00,367
So this is the kind
of case in which
1262
01:09:00,367 --> 01:09:03,834
we have to look at the question
of whether the defendants
were given a war chest.
1263
01:09:03,834 --> 01:09:06,367
Because it's really
the argument of the defense here
1264
01:09:06,367 --> 01:09:08,400
that, in fact,
the lawyers for echols
1265
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,300
were forced to make some kind
of an agreement that involved
1266
01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:14,033
letting their client's
conversations be overheard
1267
01:09:14,033 --> 01:09:16,467
because they didn't have
the resources to fight the case.
1268
01:09:16,467 --> 01:09:18,900
Not something to be lightly
tossed away or endangered.
1269
01:09:18,900 --> 01:09:21,233
Daniel stidham, if you had
had a lot of money,
1270
01:09:21,233 --> 01:09:22,934
what would you have
done with it?
1271
01:09:22,934 --> 01:09:26,100
We would do some of the things
that we're doing right now
1272
01:09:26,100 --> 01:09:28,066
with regard to
the forensic evidence.
1273
01:09:28,066 --> 01:09:29,600
Jarre
all right, Dan Stidham,
1274
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,300
anybody who defends somebody
in a capital death penalty case,
1275
01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:34,633
I take my hat off to you.
1276
01:09:34,633 --> 01:09:37,433
You're deserving
of many thanks for that,
1277
01:09:37,433 --> 01:09:40,433
regardless
of the circumstances,
guilt or innocence.
1278
01:09:40,433 --> 01:09:42,133
And thank you
for being with us.
1279
01:09:42,133 --> 01:09:43,900
We appreciate it.
1280
01:09:51,066 --> 01:09:54,133
Stidham:
How can the medical examiner,
1281
01:09:54,133 --> 01:09:57,266
when he conducts an autopsy,
how can he miss
1282
01:09:57,266 --> 01:10:00,867
a bite Mark on... on...
on the victim's face?
1283
01:10:00,867 --> 01:10:03,734
Turvey:
The reality is with any
kind of physical evidence,
1284
01:10:03,734 --> 01:10:06,500
with any kind of physical
imprint of evidence
like that
1285
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:10,166
or pattern injuries like that,
you have to really be trained
to look for them.
1286
01:10:10,166 --> 01:10:12,867
If you're not looking for it
you're not going to find it.
1287
01:10:12,867 --> 01:10:16,533
And in this particular case,
you have a preponderance
of bite-Mark evidence
1288
01:10:16,533 --> 01:10:19,967
that seems very good
and you're likely to get
a very good result off of.
1289
01:10:19,967 --> 01:10:22,433
Bite-Mark evidence is the kind
of evidence that got Bundy
1290
01:10:22,433 --> 01:10:24,700
and that's the kind of evidence
that's going to get
1291
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:27,100
the individual who's
responsible for these crimes.
1292
01:10:27,100 --> 01:10:29,734
We really have to be careful
to protect the information
1293
01:10:29,734 --> 01:10:32,633
that we have in that report,
and not disseminate it
to individuals
1294
01:10:32,633 --> 01:10:34,800
who are potentially
going to release it.
1295
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,467
Because in my experience
in cases that I've worked on
1296
01:10:37,467 --> 01:10:41,667
when there's an offender
who finds out there's
bite-Mark evidence
1297
01:10:41,667 --> 01:10:44,867
that's potentially going
to be used against them,
even in prison,
1298
01:10:44,867 --> 01:10:47,467
they're going to be making
a visit to the prison dentist
1299
01:10:47,467 --> 01:10:49,633
and they're going to have
those teeth removed
1300
01:10:49,633 --> 01:10:53,066
because they do not want that
evidence linked back to them.
1301
01:10:53,066 --> 01:10:55,133
They know that
bite-Mark evidence
1302
01:10:55,133 --> 01:10:57,600
is just as good as a fingerprint
in a court of law.
1303
01:10:59,166 --> 01:11:01,133
Mark, are you married?
1304
01:11:01,133 --> 01:11:02,367
No sir,
I'm widowed.
1305
01:11:02,367 --> 01:11:06,600
My wife passed away
march 29th of '96.
1306
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,533
I'm sorry to hear that.
March 29th of '96.
1307
01:11:09,533 --> 01:11:12,333
- Where was this at?
- In Cherokee village.
1308
01:11:12,333 --> 01:11:14,767
Cherokee village.
A natural death?
1309
01:11:14,767 --> 01:11:17,166
Uh, cause of death
undeterminable.
1310
01:11:17,166 --> 01:11:19,100
What do you...
1311
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,033
do you have any
feelings about it?
I mean...
1312
01:11:24,033 --> 01:11:28,166
- Yes sir.
- What are they, if you want
to reveal it to me?
1313
01:11:28,166 --> 01:11:31,900
My wife had given up
her will to live
1314
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:33,867
after our baby
was murdered.
1315
01:11:33,867 --> 01:11:37,066
And she just didn't
want to live anymore.
1316
01:11:37,066 --> 01:11:39,800
And she got
into an addiction
1317
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,900
and I think the addiction
helped kill her.
1318
01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:43,200
- Drugs?
- Yes sir.
1319
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,533
- What... what type?
- Dilaudid.
1320
01:11:45,533 --> 01:11:49,133
Have you had any other
problems with the police?
1321
01:11:49,133 --> 01:11:50,800
Not major, no sir.
1322
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,066
You've had problems,
is that what you saying?
1323
01:11:53,066 --> 01:11:54,934
Oh well,
speeding tickets,
1324
01:11:54,934 --> 01:11:58,967
I got a d.W.I. One time
after my wife was murdered.
1325
01:12:00,333 --> 01:12:03,967
Uh, nothing
really major, no.
1326
01:12:03,967 --> 01:12:07,934
- No robbery, no stealing?
- Oh no. No felonies
or anything like that.
1327
01:12:07,934 --> 01:12:09,567
Okay.
1328
01:12:09,567 --> 01:12:12,333
From what I see,
what you're telling me is
1329
01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:17,233
you are not a hateful
mean person,
1330
01:12:17,233 --> 01:12:19,333
you're not the kind of person
who goes around
1331
01:12:19,333 --> 01:12:23,266
causing distress to people.
You don't steal. You don't...
1332
01:12:23,266 --> 01:12:25,533
you don't
go out of your way
to harm people...
1333
01:12:25,533 --> 01:12:28,100
- No sir.
- ...Or anything like this.
1334
01:12:28,100 --> 01:12:31,166
- I pretty much...
- and you said there was
maybe one time ever
1335
01:12:31,166 --> 01:12:34,066
that you had hurt someone
in a fight or something.
1336
01:12:34,066 --> 01:12:37,834
Oh, I'm sure.
In football games
I hurt people, you know.
1337
01:12:37,834 --> 01:12:40,400
Yeah, but you know
football's one thing,
1338
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,400
but did you got out there
meaning to hurt somebody?
1339
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,867
Oh no, I went
out there for the sport
of the game, you know.
1340
01:12:44,867 --> 01:12:47,367
If you do something,
I think that kind of comes
with the territory.
1341
01:12:47,367 --> 01:12:48,900
If you get hurt,
it comes with it,
1342
01:12:48,900 --> 01:12:51,333
now if somebody
intentionally
low-blocks you
1343
01:12:51,333 --> 01:12:54,066
or trips you to injure you,
that's one thing.
1344
01:12:54,066 --> 01:12:55,567
- Did you ever do that?
- No sir.
1345
01:12:55,567 --> 01:12:57,900
I played tight end.
I caught the ball
and ran.
1346
01:12:57,900 --> 01:12:59,533
Did you ever want
to hurt somebody?
1347
01:12:59,533 --> 01:13:02,533
Yes sir,
there's three people
right now I'd like to hurt.
1348
01:13:02,533 --> 01:13:05,266
With the exception
of those three people?
1349
01:13:05,266 --> 01:13:07,500
No sir.
1350
01:13:10,433 --> 01:13:12,800
Gitchell:
There were a number of people
1351
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,133
that looked like
good suspects initially.
1352
01:13:16,133 --> 01:13:17,834
Like a phone call
would come in
1353
01:13:17,834 --> 01:13:19,834
and you would
start checking on it
1354
01:13:19,834 --> 01:13:22,834
and it was like, hey,
we may have something here.
1355
01:13:22,834 --> 01:13:24,200
And then you'd find out,
1356
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,367
well no, there's no way
this person could have done it.
1357
01:13:27,367 --> 01:13:31,367
So I mean, I think at the time
I referred to it as
1358
01:13:31,367 --> 01:13:33,567
"an emotional
roller coaster."
1359
01:13:33,567 --> 01:13:36,800
You just had ups and downs,
ups and downs.
1360
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,600
And that just
wears you out.
1361
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,467
I know that
for a period of time,
1362
01:13:41,467 --> 01:13:43,633
a couple of weeks
into the case...
1363
01:13:43,633 --> 01:13:46,533
maybe two to three weeks
into the case,
1364
01:13:46,533 --> 01:13:49,166
at that point I was
personally feeling like
1365
01:13:49,166 --> 01:13:51,967
Damien was
responsible for this.
1366
01:13:51,967 --> 01:13:55,800
And I got to the point
where I could see him
1367
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,200
at the doorway
of my bedroom.
1368
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,233
I'm sure a lot of that
had to do with
1369
01:14:00,233 --> 01:14:04,533
just being
exhausted physically
and mentally and no sleep.
1370
01:14:04,533 --> 01:14:08,066
But just really
really even becoming
1371
01:14:08,066 --> 01:14:10,867
a little paranoid
and terrified myself.
1372
01:14:10,867 --> 01:14:14,800
I think Gary gitchell has
an overactive imagination.
1373
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,133
I believe deep in his heart
that he knows
1374
01:14:18,133 --> 01:14:20,200
that we did not commit
those murders.
1375
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,500
But now it's too late for him
to come forward and say that...
1376
01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:26,433
to say he made a mistake.
And at this point in time,
1377
01:14:26,433 --> 01:14:30,000
I mean, that would... it's just
something he can't do now.
1378
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,700
So I think he's kind of been
playing this part for so long
1379
01:14:34,700 --> 01:14:36,867
that now
he probably believes
1380
01:14:36,867 --> 01:14:39,533
this part he's
been playing himself.
1381
01:14:39,533 --> 01:14:42,533
He's fooled himself
into thinking it's true.
1382
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:49,033
( Keyboard clacking )
1383
01:14:52,734 --> 01:14:54,834
Okay, here's the question:
Bill says,
1384
01:14:54,834 --> 01:14:59,433
what did you think
of "paradise lost"
and your haircut then?
1385
01:14:59,433 --> 01:15:01,934
Damien:
That haircut was
actually given to me
1386
01:15:01,934 --> 01:15:04,100
about five minutes
before the hearing,
1387
01:15:04,100 --> 01:15:05,800
by a woman
in the back room
1388
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:07,834
with a pair
of plastic scissors.
1389
01:15:07,834 --> 01:15:10,467
I was not to blame
for that haircut.
1390
01:15:10,467 --> 01:15:13,433
As for the movie itself,
1391
01:15:13,433 --> 01:15:18,033
it was
very emotional for me.
1392
01:15:19,433 --> 01:15:22,700
I think I went through
the entire range of emotions
1393
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:25,033
while I was watching it.
1394
01:15:26,700 --> 01:15:30,033
I think it made me
a little homesick.
1395
01:15:30,033 --> 01:15:32,500
- Sauls: Really?
- Yeah.
1396
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:35,834
Bakken:
Was it weird
to see Jason again?
1397
01:15:35,834 --> 01:15:38,967
Yeah, he didn't even
look like I remembered,
1398
01:15:38,967 --> 01:15:40,900
I guess because
so many years have gone by
1399
01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:43,467
that I had begun to forget
what he looked like
1400
01:15:43,467 --> 01:15:45,233
until I saw him on there.
1401
01:15:45,233 --> 01:15:47,767
And when I was
looking at that,
1402
01:15:47,767 --> 01:15:50,800
we were both children.
We were still kids.
1403
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,266
The entire way that I
carried myself back then,
1404
01:15:53,266 --> 01:15:56,033
my entire demeanor back
then as compared to now,
1405
01:15:56,033 --> 01:15:59,000
I think I've changed
a very great deal.
1406
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,467
Did you feel roped
into doing "paradise lost,"
1407
01:16:01,467 --> 01:16:03,667
forced into it?
Or did you pretty much
trust these guys?
1408
01:16:03,667 --> 01:16:05,433
No no, I wanted
to do it.
1409
01:16:05,433 --> 01:16:08,500
You know, at the time
we needed some kind of
positive publicity
1410
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:11,233
or at least some way,
some kind of forum
1411
01:16:11,233 --> 01:16:14,900
to express
what I wanted to say
1412
01:16:14,900 --> 01:16:18,300
to kind of combat just what
the prosecution was releasing
1413
01:16:18,300 --> 01:16:21,233
to the media, some kind
of objective thing where
1414
01:16:21,233 --> 01:16:23,200
I could actually
express something.
1415
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,800
But I also did it because
I just thought it would be fun.
1416
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:29,000
So you trusted
the filmmakers pretty much
1417
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,934
to do a fair portrayal
of what was going on?
1418
01:16:32,934 --> 01:16:35,700
Yeah, I trusted them.
But at the same time
even if I didn't,
1419
01:16:35,700 --> 01:16:39,166
- what did I have to lose?
- Bakken: This is true.
1420
01:16:39,166 --> 01:16:41,300
What did you
think of Byers?
1421
01:16:41,300 --> 01:16:43,734
I think Byers is probably
the fakest creature
1422
01:16:43,734 --> 01:16:46,066
to ever walk on two legs.
1423
01:16:46,066 --> 01:16:49,500
I don't think there's
a true thing about him.
1424
01:16:49,500 --> 01:16:52,100
He puts on all these
false faces.
1425
01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:54,900
He'll act one way whenever
they have cameras on him
1426
01:16:54,900 --> 01:16:56,967
and another way
when he's by himself.
1427
01:16:56,967 --> 01:17:00,567
He has about
30 different faces.
1428
01:17:00,567 --> 01:17:03,533
Bakken:
So seeing him
in the movie didn't change
1429
01:17:03,533 --> 01:17:06,100
how... any of your opinions
about him then?
1430
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:08,834
Well, I think it reinforced
1431
01:17:08,834 --> 01:17:10,333
the opinions that
I have about him.
1432
01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:11,900
I still believe
with all my heart
1433
01:17:11,900 --> 01:17:14,500
that he is the person who
killed those three children.
1434
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:18,033
- And...
- Bakken: Alone?
1435
01:17:18,033 --> 01:17:19,867
I have no sympathy
for Byers.
1436
01:17:19,867 --> 01:17:23,166
I'm sitting here
on death row for a crime
that he committed.
1437
01:17:23,166 --> 01:17:25,967
That in itself is
enough to make me have
no sympathy for him...
1438
01:17:25,967 --> 01:17:30,100
but then also the fact that
he killed three little kids.
1439
01:17:30,100 --> 01:17:32,633
Bakken:
Do you think Melissa had
anything to do with it?
1440
01:17:32,633 --> 01:17:34,633
I don't think
she actually participated
1441
01:17:34,633 --> 01:17:36,200
in the act
of killing them,
1442
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,700
but I think she participated
in covering it up.
1443
01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:40,967
I firmly believe
that she knew,
1444
01:17:40,967 --> 01:17:44,133
and I think that's
why she's dead now.
1445
01:17:44,133 --> 01:17:48,100
If you could say... if you
could give Byers a message,
what would it be?
1446
01:17:48,100 --> 01:17:50,333
I wouldn't say anything
to Mark Byers.
1447
01:17:50,333 --> 01:17:52,166
Mark Byers
is beneath me.
1448
01:17:52,166 --> 01:17:55,867
He doesn't even
deserve my contempt.
1449
01:17:58,867 --> 01:18:01,033
( Music playing )
1450
01:18:59,633 --> 01:19:03,667
Byers:
You butchered
my babies out here.
1451
01:19:03,667 --> 01:19:07,967
I swore that I'd stand
at your grave and cuss it.
1452
01:19:07,967 --> 01:19:10,967
Well, I'm doing it
a little bit early.
1453
01:19:16,100 --> 01:19:18,834
I'm going to Bury you
three bastards right here
1454
01:19:18,834 --> 01:19:21,300
and send you to hell.
1455
01:19:39,100 --> 01:19:40,867
This crime scene tape,
1456
01:19:40,867 --> 01:19:43,533
that come off of what they
stretched in front of me
1457
01:19:43,533 --> 01:19:46,600
when they found
my babies out here...
1458
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,166
wouldn't let me by.
1459
01:19:49,166 --> 01:19:51,400
I thought it was
just fitting
1460
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,066
to bring it back
to your memorial fund.
1461
01:19:57,066 --> 01:19:59,800
Jessie, you got
your flowers.
1462
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:04,133
That's your head marker,
you animal.
1463
01:20:04,133 --> 01:20:06,133
To Damien...
1464
01:20:08,533 --> 01:20:11,166
Jason, there's yours.
1465
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,400
You want to worship
the devil?
1466
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,333
See him.
I'm going to give you
a farewell party.
1467
01:20:31,867 --> 01:20:34,300
Now we're going
to have some fun.
1468
01:20:36,133 --> 01:20:38,734
I'm going to try to help
send you on your way.
1469
01:20:40,900 --> 01:20:43,800
You done got
all of my blessings,
which aren't none.
1470
01:20:55,066 --> 01:20:57,667
What you think,
you ready to die?
1471
01:20:57,667 --> 01:20:59,500
Fire for fire
1472
01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:02,100
and death for death.
1473
01:21:03,667 --> 01:21:06,433
Live through this fire,
you animal.
1474
01:21:08,133 --> 01:21:10,333
What, it ain't hot enough
for you?
1475
01:21:15,834 --> 01:21:18,900
This is the ditch
that you killed them in,
1476
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:20,567
do you remember?
1477
01:21:24,233 --> 01:21:26,834
You wanted to eat
my baby's testicles?
1478
01:21:26,834 --> 01:21:29,333
Burn, you son
of a bitch, burn.
1479
01:21:29,333 --> 01:21:31,700
Burn and go
to hell! Burn!
1480
01:21:33,066 --> 01:21:37,133
Can you remember screaming
and hearing them holler?
1481
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,233
I stomp on your grave!
I stomp on your grave!
1482
01:21:41,233 --> 01:21:44,934
I stomp
on your grave!
1483
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,633
Burn and go to hell!
1484
01:21:51,767 --> 01:21:54,066
Burn you like
you deserve to burn.
1485
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:59,633
♪ Well, dolls of voodoo ♪
1486
01:21:59,633 --> 01:22:03,767
♪ all stuck with pins ♪
1487
01:22:03,767 --> 01:22:10,000
♪ one for each of us
and our sins... ♪
1488
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,667
Fogleman:
Looking at young people
involved in the occult,
1489
01:22:13,667 --> 01:22:17,133
do you see any particular
type of dress?
1490
01:22:17,133 --> 01:22:22,100
I have personally observed
people wearing, um,
1491
01:22:22,100 --> 01:22:23,800
black fingernails,
1492
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,400
having their
hair painted black,
1493
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:28,867
wearing black t-shirts,
1494
01:22:28,867 --> 01:22:33,567
sometimes they will
tattoo themselves.
1495
01:22:33,567 --> 01:22:35,266
Look at history.
1496
01:22:35,266 --> 01:22:38,567
Look at hundreds of years
of religious history.
1497
01:22:38,567 --> 01:22:41,266
There have been hundreds
of people killed
1498
01:22:41,266 --> 01:22:43,066
in the name of religion.
1499
01:22:43,066 --> 01:22:45,000
It is a motivating force.
1500
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,066
It gives people
who want to do evil,
1501
01:22:48,066 --> 01:22:52,667
want to commit murders,
a reason to do what
they're doing.
1502
01:22:52,667 --> 01:22:54,867
West Memphis is
pretty much
1503
01:22:54,867 --> 01:22:58,500
like a second Salem, you know.
1504
01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:02,266
'Cause everything that
happens there... every crime
1505
01:23:02,266 --> 01:23:06,000
no matter what it is,
it's blamed on satanism.
1506
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,100
Pashley:
This case has attracted
a lot of young people
1507
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:13,000
that relate to Damien.
1508
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:16,266
And it scared the hell
out of them so that's why
they want to be there.
1509
01:23:16,266 --> 01:23:18,000
And yet,
you've got to tell them,
1510
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,767
if they dress in black, man,
that's not going to help
Damien at all,
1511
01:23:20,767 --> 01:23:23,333
'cause it's just going
to look like Damien has
a cult following.
1512
01:23:23,333 --> 01:23:26,667
We dressed in suits
and they still thought
we were in a cult.
1513
01:23:26,667 --> 01:23:28,767
So I mean if we get people
at the hearing
1514
01:23:28,767 --> 01:23:32,967
that insist on dressing
in all their goth glory,
1515
01:23:32,967 --> 01:23:36,066
then it's just going to confirm
everything that they think...
1516
01:23:36,066 --> 01:23:37,433
that there's still a cult,
1517
01:23:37,433 --> 01:23:39,734
that Damien's still controlling
the cult from prison.
1518
01:23:39,734 --> 01:23:42,400
I mean people were telling me
that stuff... I mean reporters.
1519
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,500
I was asked by a reporter
if I was a member
of Damien's cult.
1520
01:23:45,500 --> 01:23:48,834
- Me too.
- And I'm standing there
wearing a suit.
1521
01:23:48,834 --> 01:23:50,734
I thought I was
dressed like a guy,
1522
01:23:50,734 --> 01:23:52,266
like a normal person,
you know.
1523
01:23:52,266 --> 01:23:54,467
But the, um... I think what
we were trying to do is
1524
01:23:54,467 --> 01:23:56,467
we don't want to give them
any fuel for that.
1525
01:23:56,467 --> 01:23:59,166
- That's nuts.
- I think they're sort of afraid
if they dress conservative
1526
01:23:59,166 --> 01:24:01,567
they're going to be
on the other side,
"the enemy side."
1527
01:24:01,567 --> 01:24:03,967
Like they have to dress
like Damien or something
1528
01:24:03,967 --> 01:24:06,600
if they want to be on his side.
I don't know what that is.
1529
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,834
Well, look how he dresses
now in court, you know.
1530
01:24:08,834 --> 01:24:11,333
- He wears all white in prison.
- Bakken: Yeah.
1531
01:24:11,333 --> 01:24:14,900
And when he goes to court
he's wearing, you know,
like, nice clothes.
1532
01:24:14,900 --> 01:24:16,500
I mean
he's grown up a lot.
1533
01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:18,967
Bakken:
A lot of people only know
Damien from the movie,
1534
01:24:18,967 --> 01:24:21,300
so they see these little bits
of Damien in the movie
1535
01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:23,600
and that's what they think
they're reacting to.
1536
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,300
But they don't realize
that's, like, five years ago.
1537
01:24:29,934 --> 01:24:31,867
Woman:
I want to remind you
this is a fundraiser
1538
01:24:31,867 --> 01:24:34,233
so I want you
to give from your heart
because these young men
1539
01:24:34,233 --> 01:24:36,967
are kind of counting on us.
1540
01:24:38,433 --> 01:24:40,533
And just for the record,
anyone... if you know someone
1541
01:24:40,533 --> 01:24:42,400
that hasn't been able
to make it here today,
1542
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,233
or for whatever reason
left early,
1543
01:24:44,233 --> 01:24:47,000
if you'll remind them
this cauldron's going
to be available
1544
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:51,166
for the next couple of weeks
to continue to add to.
1545
01:24:51,166 --> 01:24:53,433
I'm puttin' money in here
because I want Damien
1546
01:24:53,433 --> 01:24:56,400
to be able
to go to college
outside of prison.
1547
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:58,333
I want him to go
to a real school.
1548
01:24:58,333 --> 01:25:00,934
- Woman: Really soon.
- ( Applause )
1549
01:25:00,934 --> 01:25:03,533
Woman:
And remember too that
he had the courage to say
1550
01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:05,166
he was wiccan in adversity
1551
01:25:05,166 --> 01:25:08,033
when he knew that
it would cost him a lot.
1552
01:25:08,033 --> 01:25:10,300
All of us who are here
are here because
1553
01:25:10,300 --> 01:25:13,000
we enjoy knowing
1554
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,867
that there is
religious freedom,
1555
01:25:14,867 --> 01:25:17,967
hopefully somewhere,
that we all respect each other
1556
01:25:17,967 --> 01:25:21,100
for our beliefs, for our loves,
for everything that we have.
1557
01:25:21,100 --> 01:25:23,467
They wrote it off as something,
"we don't understand that.
1558
01:25:23,467 --> 01:25:25,033
It's got to be
the work of the devil."
1559
01:25:25,033 --> 01:25:26,934
Well, you know,
Wicca... Wiccans
1560
01:25:26,934 --> 01:25:29,367
don't believe
in the devil, okay?
1561
01:25:29,367 --> 01:25:32,567
The devil is
a Christian deity.
1562
01:25:32,567 --> 01:25:36,200
They use the devil...
or they believe
that the devil
1563
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:38,500
is something that causes
them to do evil things.
1564
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:41,934
And in the wiccan read,
in the wiccan tradition,
those folks believe
1565
01:25:41,934 --> 01:25:45,734
that you are 100% responsible
for your actions.
1566
01:25:45,734 --> 01:25:48,433
And they believe
in the law of three...
1567
01:25:48,433 --> 01:25:51,934
- ( applause )
- ...Whatever you do
comes back on you threefold.
1568
01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:55,100
If you put out good energy,
that's coming back
to you threefold.
1569
01:25:55,100 --> 01:25:57,333
If you put out negative energy
and dark energy,
1570
01:25:57,333 --> 01:25:59,133
that's coming back
on you threefold.
1571
01:25:59,133 --> 01:26:01,834
That is what
the wiccan means.
1572
01:26:01,834 --> 01:26:03,333
I know that,
as a wiccan
1573
01:26:03,333 --> 01:26:05,400
that every religion
is important to me
1574
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,400
and if I felt like...
even Christians...
1575
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,600
that they were having
their right to be rel...
1576
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,700
you know they couldn't
practice in their way,
I would defend that.
1577
01:26:12,700 --> 01:26:14,400
It's not about
just me being wiccan,
1578
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,266
this is about how did this
affect three little boys
1579
01:26:17,266 --> 01:26:20,400
whose murderers, I personally
believe, went unfounded.
1580
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:22,400
And there's three young men
who are in jail
1581
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,533
and one of them's there
and he's on death row
1582
01:26:24,533 --> 01:26:26,300
just because he said
"I'm wiccan."
1583
01:26:26,300 --> 01:26:29,734
Val price:
Can you explain to the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury
1584
01:26:29,734 --> 01:26:32,700
what... some principles
about the Wicca religion?
1585
01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:36,600
Um, it acknowledges
a goddess
1586
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,300
in a higher regard
as a god
1587
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:40,066
because people
have always said
1588
01:26:40,066 --> 01:26:44,533
"we're all god's children"
and men cannot have children.
1589
01:26:44,533 --> 01:26:47,900
Um, it's basically like
1590
01:26:47,900 --> 01:26:50,767
a close involvement
with nature.
1591
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,100
( Keyboard clacking )
1592
01:26:56,467 --> 01:26:58,200
Sauls:
Okay, here's the question:
1593
01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:02,834
"I was wondering what made you
go change your religion
back to catholic?"
1594
01:27:02,834 --> 01:27:05,800
I haven't changed
my religion to anything.
1595
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:07,033
At this point in time
1596
01:27:07,033 --> 01:27:08,900
I don't really
make any distinctions
1597
01:27:08,900 --> 01:27:10,567
between religions anymore.
1598
01:27:10,567 --> 01:27:13,233
And they say that a lot
of people in prison find god.
1599
01:27:13,233 --> 01:27:15,533
Well, I never knew
god was lost.
1600
01:27:15,533 --> 01:27:19,166
And, um, I just...
1601
01:27:19,166 --> 01:27:23,166
I don't like to put a label
over myself anymore.
1602
01:27:23,166 --> 01:27:24,633
Did you ever?
1603
01:27:24,633 --> 01:27:27,266
Well, at one time
I didn't really mind
1604
01:27:27,266 --> 01:27:30,000
because I thought maybe
there was some sort of
1605
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,433
distinction
between religions.
1606
01:27:32,433 --> 01:27:35,233
But then I realized
that there's not.
1607
01:27:35,233 --> 01:27:37,867
I think all religions
basically teach...
1608
01:27:37,867 --> 01:27:40,166
recording:
Your time limit is
about to be exceeded.
1609
01:27:40,166 --> 01:27:42,834
Your call will be terminated
in 30 seconds.
1610
01:27:42,834 --> 01:27:45,633
I think all religions basically
teach the same message
1611
01:27:46,767 --> 01:27:51,133
and I think
it's the people who...
1612
01:27:52,567 --> 01:27:56,166
who create all these dogmas
and strict rules
1613
01:27:56,166 --> 01:27:59,400
and try to enforce
this belief
1614
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:01,333
that if you don't believe
the way they do,
1615
01:28:01,333 --> 01:28:04,533
that you're
going to suffer.
1616
01:28:05,967 --> 01:28:08,233
Have you forgotten
this face?
1617
01:28:08,233 --> 01:28:10,500
I hope not.
1618
01:28:10,500 --> 01:28:12,633
'Cause it's going
to come visit you
1619
01:28:12,633 --> 01:28:14,900
when you die
and look up from hell.
1620
01:28:14,900 --> 01:28:18,467
It'll be just like Lazarus
and the rich man.
1621
01:28:18,467 --> 01:28:20,934
Lazarus at Abraham's bosom,
1622
01:28:20,934 --> 01:28:23,667
the rich man
looks up from hell.
1623
01:28:23,667 --> 01:28:24,967
What's he do?
1624
01:28:24,967 --> 01:28:27,100
Beg for a drop
of water.
1625
01:28:27,100 --> 01:28:29,066
None was given.
1626
01:28:29,066 --> 01:28:30,467
You'll beg
1627
01:28:30,467 --> 01:28:34,367
'cause my baby shall put
his foot across your neck.
1628
01:28:34,367 --> 01:28:36,100
How do I know that?
1629
01:28:36,100 --> 01:28:39,867
Well, it's an easy song...
"the Bible tells me so."
1630
01:28:41,834 --> 01:28:45,200
And there's so much in here
that's in store for you.
1631
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:49,066
If you don't have one,
rush out to your nearest
bookstore
1632
01:28:49,066 --> 01:28:51,734
and get one,
you lowlife.
1633
01:28:51,734 --> 01:28:54,767
Have the Gideons
mail you one.
1634
01:28:54,767 --> 01:28:58,500
Read it, live it,
believe it.
1635
01:28:58,500 --> 01:29:00,500
It is your destiny.
1636
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:03,200
Hell awaits you.
1637
01:29:05,033 --> 01:29:08,533
- Man: Who's going to talk?
- Burk's gonna talk here.
1638
01:29:08,533 --> 01:29:10,934
Okay, burk,
tell 'em what it is.
1639
01:29:10,934 --> 01:29:13,500
- We got everybody in here?
- Who am I telling?
1640
01:29:13,500 --> 01:29:15,767
We have most
of the people here.
1641
01:29:15,767 --> 01:29:18,367
Well, this... should
I just start talking?
1642
01:29:18,367 --> 01:29:19,834
Yeah, go ahead.
1643
01:29:19,834 --> 01:29:22,700
Okay, this is a... this is
a collection of postcards
1644
01:29:22,700 --> 01:29:25,934
that we've received from people
from all over the world
1645
01:29:25,934 --> 01:29:28,133
in support of this cause.
1646
01:29:28,133 --> 01:29:30,400
They've all written
"free the west Memphis three"
1647
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,834
all over these postcards.
1648
01:29:32,834 --> 01:29:35,433
The goal is actually to deliver
this to the governor,
1649
01:29:35,433 --> 01:29:37,967
to show the governor the support
that these three have.
1650
01:29:37,967 --> 01:29:40,967
It's more like a... it's kind
of working as a petition
1651
01:29:40,967 --> 01:29:42,867
more than it is
anything else.
1652
01:29:42,867 --> 01:29:46,100
It's a way
for people to express
their concerns about this.
1653
01:29:46,100 --> 01:29:49,667
- Okay. Thanks a lot.
- Thank you.
1654
01:29:49,667 --> 01:29:53,900
Announcer:
You're watching KATV channel 7,
the spirit of Arkansas.
1655
01:29:53,900 --> 01:29:56,433
This is channel 7 news
at 6:00.
1656
01:29:56,433 --> 01:30:00,000
Anchorwoman:
Did defense attorneys
sabotage Damien echols' case
1657
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,500
by sitting on potentially
explosive evidence?
1658
01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:04,633
His new attorneys
think so.
1659
01:30:04,633 --> 01:30:08,433
Edward mallett says the men
who represented echols
in his first trial
1660
01:30:08,433 --> 01:30:12,567
not only botched the case
by selling the story to HBO,
1661
01:30:12,567 --> 01:30:15,467
but they failed to investigate
obvious leads.
1662
01:30:15,467 --> 01:30:18,133
Mallett also claims
that he has new evidence
1663
01:30:18,133 --> 01:30:20,600
of a human bite Mark
on one of the victims.
1664
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,834
Judge David Burnett
granted his motion
1665
01:30:22,834 --> 01:30:26,367
to get bite-Mark impressions
from Damien's two codefendants.
1666
01:30:26,367 --> 01:30:28,867
Under cross-examination,
val price,
1667
01:30:28,867 --> 01:30:30,400
echols' previous attorney,
1668
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,100
testified that he did
his best to represent echols.
1669
01:30:33,100 --> 01:30:36,967
But Brent turvey,
a forensic scientist,
disagrees.
1670
01:30:36,967 --> 01:30:39,400
He says price sat
on critical evidence,
1671
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:42,533
namely bite marks he's found
on the victims' bodies.
1672
01:30:42,533 --> 01:30:46,734
Bakken:
That kind of stuff is like
absolute proof of who did this.
1673
01:30:46,734 --> 01:30:49,300
I mean if they can get bite
impressions, it's like...
1674
01:30:49,300 --> 01:30:51,367
- man: It's like a fingerprint.
- It's done.
1675
01:30:51,367 --> 01:30:53,233
They can identify
who it is, period.
1676
01:30:53,233 --> 01:30:55,967
- Or we can at least
exclude these three boys...
- Bakken: Yeah.
1677
01:30:55,967 --> 01:30:58,367
...who that we have no question
that they're innocent.
1678
01:30:58,367 --> 01:31:00,667
So that's one way
of trying to prove that.
1679
01:31:00,667 --> 01:31:04,567
Byers:
The three they got are
the three that did it.
1680
01:31:04,567 --> 01:31:06,667
You are entitled
to your opinion,
1681
01:31:06,667 --> 01:31:08,300
but to spread
your propaganda
1682
01:31:08,300 --> 01:31:11,133
that you believe
they are innocent,
I think is crap.
1683
01:31:11,133 --> 01:31:14,333
- Bite marks aren't propaganda.
That's solid 100% evidence.
- It's fact.
1684
01:31:14,333 --> 01:31:18,300
- It hasn't been proven they're
bite marks yet though.
- It has been.
1685
01:31:18,300 --> 01:31:21,000
And you're very convinced
100% they're guilty, right?
1686
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,300
- No doubt.
- And you're 100% convinced
of your own innocence.
1687
01:31:24,300 --> 01:31:26,667
- So why don't you...
- no doubt in my mind about it.
1688
01:31:26,667 --> 01:31:29,700
Why don't you give
your bite impressions
to the defense?
1689
01:31:29,700 --> 01:31:31,667
Do you think
that I'm guilty,
1690
01:31:31,667 --> 01:31:33,667
that I had something to do
with murdering my son?
1691
01:31:33,667 --> 01:31:35,166
We're not saying
anything about that.
1692
01:31:35,166 --> 01:31:36,834
I don't know
if you had anything
to do with it.
1693
01:31:36,834 --> 01:31:38,500
I want to know
that you didn't,
and that would be
1694
01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:41,100
- by giving
your bite impression.
- Rule yourself out for it.
1695
01:31:41,100 --> 01:31:43,200
I've already been exonerated.
What else do I have to do?
1696
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:44,867
Sauls:
The public's been
kind of suspicious of you.
1697
01:31:44,867 --> 01:31:46,934
Bakken:
What happened to Melissa?
1698
01:31:46,934 --> 01:31:48,667
I believe she died
from a broken heart.
1699
01:31:48,667 --> 01:31:50,667
Bakken:
But you were there,
so you saw something.
1700
01:31:50,667 --> 01:31:54,600
I was asleep beside her
and woke up and found her
passed away beside me.
1701
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:58,033
There were no bruises,
abrasions, anything like that
1702
01:31:58,033 --> 01:31:59,834
of any foul play
whatsoever.
1703
01:31:59,834 --> 01:32:01,800
I've been
totally exonerated.
1704
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,700
All charges or suspicion
of anything dropped.
1705
01:32:04,700 --> 01:32:07,000
Bakken:
Well, I do know there
was a toxicology report
1706
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,233
and they talked about
actually quite a lot of drugs
that were in her system.
1707
01:32:10,233 --> 01:32:13,467
Yes, a lot
of prescription drugs that she
was taking, they sure did.
1708
01:32:13,467 --> 01:32:15,734
Also some prescription drugs
she wasn't taking.
1709
01:32:15,734 --> 01:32:18,600
She took like seven or eight
different types of medication
1710
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,867
for being bipolar,
manic depressive,
post-traumatic syndrome.
1711
01:32:21,867 --> 01:32:23,867
And as far as
the other medication,
1712
01:32:23,867 --> 01:32:26,333
I'm as puzzled
about it as anyone.
1713
01:32:26,333 --> 01:32:29,000
I read in the newspaper...
it was actually
"the Arkansas times"...
1714
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:33,166
- yes.
- Mara Leveritt said that there
were signs she was suffocated.
1715
01:32:33,166 --> 01:32:36,266
There were no signs
of suffocation or struggle.
1716
01:32:36,266 --> 01:32:38,400
She was laying
right there on the bed
1717
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:41,433
when the paramedics
and all came in.
1718
01:32:41,433 --> 01:32:43,934
If someone published something
in the newspaper about me
1719
01:32:43,934 --> 01:32:46,700
that was suspicious like that,
that pointed the finger at me
1720
01:32:46,700 --> 01:32:48,500
and said I was this
and said I was that,
1721
01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:51,600
I'd want to prove
to somebody
1722
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,233
that I had nothing
to do with it.
1723
01:32:53,233 --> 01:32:55,533
Okay, then tell me
what I have not done
1724
01:32:55,533 --> 01:32:58,767
to prove that I have not
been involved in any of it.
1725
01:32:58,767 --> 01:33:02,767
I have no problem
with a polygraph,
sodium pentothal,
1726
01:33:02,767 --> 01:33:06,133
being hypnotized,
bite marks or anything else,
1727
01:33:06,133 --> 01:33:09,400
which I've submitted
to every test they've asked,
1728
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,934
every question they have asked
because I know my innocence.
1729
01:33:12,934 --> 01:33:15,000
They didn't have
bite-Mark impressions.
1730
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,266
Did they take your
bite-Mark impressions?
1731
01:33:17,266 --> 01:33:19,834
Bakken:
I mean if you're
that convinced...
1732
01:33:21,300 --> 01:33:24,200
dental records.
1733
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:27,133
You know, how could you
give your bite impressions
1734
01:33:27,133 --> 01:33:28,800
if you don't
have your teeth?
1735
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,300
Maybe that's why you're
not so reluctant to do it.
1736
01:33:31,300 --> 01:33:34,100
Well, what if I told you that
the teeth that I had before
1737
01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:37,300
they were pulled or the teeth
that I had during it,
1738
01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:40,533
I know the oral surgeons
and all that did the work
1739
01:33:40,533 --> 01:33:42,700
and I would be glad
to sign a release
1740
01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:46,266
- for them to send my x-rays.
- Sauls: Will you do that?
1741
01:33:46,266 --> 01:33:48,667
If need be.
Like I said, I've cooperated
with the police.
1742
01:33:48,667 --> 01:33:50,633
Would you do that for us
and send it to Dan stidham?
1743
01:33:50,633 --> 01:33:52,100
I won't do
a damn thing for you.
1744
01:33:52,100 --> 01:33:54,400
- Do it for Dan stidham.
- Bakken: Do it for your kid.
1745
01:33:54,400 --> 01:33:56,367
Sauls:
Do it... just do it
to prove us wrong.
1746
01:33:56,367 --> 01:33:58,700
I don't have to prove
one damn thing to you.
1747
01:33:58,700 --> 01:34:00,867
If it turns out
that we're wrong,
1748
01:34:00,867 --> 01:34:03,567
we'll admit it,
I promise you.
1749
01:34:03,567 --> 01:34:06,834
Bend over and put
your head between your legs
and kiss your ass goodbye,
1750
01:34:06,834 --> 01:34:09,100
'cause you're
going to be wrong.
1751
01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:11,800
I think you all are
fighting a lost cause.
1752
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:14,567
We're just trying
to get to the truth.
1753
01:34:16,700 --> 01:34:19,600
Byers:
As a young boy
at the age of 13,
1754
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,700
I started down many
of the wrong roads
1755
01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:23,834
that a lot of teenagers
will go down.
1756
01:34:23,834 --> 01:34:25,600
I remember the first
dollar I stole
1757
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:27,934
was out of
my mama's purse.
1758
01:34:27,934 --> 01:34:31,667
The first people
I stole from were my parents.
1759
01:34:31,667 --> 01:34:35,500
Boy, it just went down a rough
and rugged road from there.
1760
01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:39,700
I can remember quite vividly
the day that I came to
1761
01:34:39,700 --> 01:34:41,367
from a comatose state.
1762
01:34:41,367 --> 01:34:43,734
I had overdosed
in my parents' home.
1763
01:34:43,734 --> 01:34:45,266
The next day,
they were on the phone
1764
01:34:45,266 --> 01:34:48,000
with my brother-in-law
and sister down in Jackson,
Mississippi.
1765
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:50,900
Said, "will you all take him?
He's out of control.
1766
01:34:50,900 --> 01:34:53,467
We can't do
anything with him."
1767
01:34:53,467 --> 01:34:56,600
I saw my brother-in-law,
a big tall red-headed feller
1768
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,967
and I said, "you don't know
all the wrongs I've done."
1769
01:34:59,967 --> 01:35:02,133
He said, "well, let me
show you over here."
1770
01:35:02,133 --> 01:35:04,500
He explained to me
about the apostle Paul.
1771
01:35:04,500 --> 01:35:07,233
He said, "don't get up there
and think that you're the worst
that's been."
1772
01:35:07,233 --> 01:35:09,767
He said, "the apostle Paul's
already took that privilege
1773
01:35:09,767 --> 01:35:12,367
and he says
I am the chief sinner."
1774
01:35:12,367 --> 01:35:16,233
So I thought,
"well, if the lord could
save the apostle Paul
1775
01:35:16,233 --> 01:35:19,400
and look beyond his sins,
he could save me too."
1776
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:22,433
When this last tragedy
came into our life,
1777
01:35:22,433 --> 01:35:25,600
I stood by
my son's casket
1778
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:30,300
and I said,
"oh god, help me.
1779
01:35:30,300 --> 01:35:32,667
Lord, I'm looking to you.
1780
01:35:32,667 --> 01:35:37,166
I want to be the dad
that stands in the gap,
1781
01:35:37,166 --> 01:35:39,066
that will stand for you
1782
01:35:39,066 --> 01:35:42,767
regardless to what
the world says.
1783
01:35:42,767 --> 01:35:44,767
I don't care.
1784
01:35:44,767 --> 01:35:47,767
Lord, I can't
do this on my own.
1785
01:35:47,767 --> 01:35:50,767
I need you."
1786
01:35:50,767 --> 01:35:53,533
And you know
there was a peace
1787
01:35:53,533 --> 01:35:56,633
that surpassed
all understanding
1788
01:35:56,633 --> 01:35:59,400
that came upon me
in that funeral home.
1789
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:02,233
And I thought,
"thank god for that."
1790
01:36:02,233 --> 01:36:05,233
Thank the lord, for after
20-something years
1791
01:36:05,233 --> 01:36:07,233
of living like a savage
on this earth,
1792
01:36:07,233 --> 01:36:10,333
that he knocked
at my heart's door
and spoke to me.
1793
01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:12,467
And I'm so glad
I invited him in.
1794
01:36:12,467 --> 01:36:15,934
Turvey:
I'd want to know
who in the community
1795
01:36:15,934 --> 01:36:19,533
had access to those victims,
who would be trusted
with those kids.
1796
01:36:19,533 --> 01:36:22,300
I'd want to know what
the relationships were
in that community,
1797
01:36:22,300 --> 01:36:26,200
because who was killed
tells you why they were killed.
1798
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:28,433
Look at how clear
of a line we're drawing
1799
01:36:28,433 --> 01:36:33,066
between the homicide
and the behavior of Chris...
of Chris Byers.
1800
01:36:33,066 --> 01:36:37,300
My feeling is
that this kid was
being abused.
1801
01:36:37,300 --> 01:36:38,934
Chris Byers
was setting fires.
1802
01:36:38,934 --> 01:36:41,100
He was playing
with his own excrement.
1803
01:36:41,100 --> 01:36:43,667
He was
beating up other kids,
picking fights.
1804
01:36:43,667 --> 01:36:45,433
He was, uh...
he was on Ritalin...
1805
01:36:45,433 --> 01:36:48,000
the doctor was saying he was
going to hospitalize him.
1806
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,100
He was a kid who had
behavioral problems
1807
01:36:50,100 --> 01:36:53,667
and problems of being
defiant and violent and
aggressive and impulsive
1808
01:36:53,667 --> 01:36:57,700
for at least three years
that this neurologist
had been seeing him.
1809
01:36:57,700 --> 01:37:00,500
And this doctor
in his report states,
1810
01:37:00,500 --> 01:37:03,600
I'm giving this kid...
I've been prescribing
him Ritalin
1811
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,600
for the past three years,
nothing's come of it.
1812
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,066
Not that he...
I can't under...
he even says,
1813
01:37:09,066 --> 01:37:11,266
"it does not...
it does not make
sense to me.
1814
01:37:11,266 --> 01:37:15,000
I'm at a loss to explain why
his behavior has not abated."
1815
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:17,533
'Cause what Ritalin is
it's a kiddie depressant.
1816
01:37:17,533 --> 01:37:20,233
What it does is it takes kids
and makes them...
1817
01:37:20,233 --> 01:37:24,300
it makes them more docile.
1818
01:37:24,300 --> 01:37:27,700
But Ritalin is a funny drug.
And it's my understanding...
1819
01:37:27,700 --> 01:37:30,900
and you'll have to talk
to somebody who really knows
what he's talking about...
1820
01:37:30,900 --> 01:37:35,166
but it's my understanding
that in adults,
Ritalin is like speed.
1821
01:37:35,166 --> 01:37:37,867
It has the exact
opposite effect.
1822
01:37:37,867 --> 01:37:41,100
So you think that maybe
the kid wasn't getting
the prescription...
1823
01:37:41,100 --> 01:37:42,800
if he was getting
the prescription,
1824
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,266
he wouldn't have
been exhibiting
those behaviors.
1825
01:37:45,266 --> 01:37:47,467
And he was exhibiting
those behaviors.
1826
01:37:47,467 --> 01:37:49,367
So my only thought
would be that
1827
01:37:49,367 --> 01:37:51,767
he was not getting
his prescription.
1828
01:37:53,066 --> 01:37:56,700
They had a little book
they wrote in at school.
1829
01:37:56,700 --> 01:37:58,834
I still can't go through
a lot of his things.
1830
01:37:58,834 --> 01:38:00,266
It's still too painful.
1831
01:38:00,266 --> 01:38:03,166
- Byers: It's his journal.
- It's his journal.
1832
01:38:03,166 --> 01:38:06,567
And it was
on a Wednesday.
1833
01:38:06,567 --> 01:38:10,066
And he had written nothing
on the page except just
1834
01:38:10,066 --> 01:38:12,867
"I love my mommy."
1835
01:38:14,834 --> 01:38:19,133
And that's all
he'd written on the page.
1836
01:38:19,133 --> 01:38:23,500
And I know that
if he could come to me,
1837
01:38:23,500 --> 01:38:27,000
he would say,
"mommy, it's okay,"
1838
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,867
and "I'm all right
1839
01:38:29,867 --> 01:38:32,667
and you need to be
all right too.
1840
01:38:32,667 --> 01:38:37,266
And I still love you
and I love daddy
and I love Ryan.
1841
01:38:37,266 --> 01:38:40,166
Now I want
you to pull yourself
together, mommy,
1842
01:38:40,166 --> 01:38:42,333
and I want you
to go ahead and live
1843
01:38:42,333 --> 01:38:45,600
because I'm okay now.
I'm okay.
1844
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:47,600
I'm all right.
1845
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:51,467
You don't have
to worry about me."
1846
01:38:51,467 --> 01:38:53,533
What was your relationship
with your wife?
1847
01:38:53,533 --> 01:38:55,467
Did y'all get along
pretty good?
1848
01:38:55,467 --> 01:38:59,467
As long as
I could keep her
from using, we did.
1849
01:38:59,467 --> 01:39:01,934
I could keep her off of it
a couple of months
1850
01:39:01,934 --> 01:39:05,233
and she'd go
back to it.
1851
01:39:05,233 --> 01:39:07,100
The first rehab
I put her in
1852
01:39:07,100 --> 01:39:09,834
was nine months
after we were married.
1853
01:39:09,834 --> 01:39:11,967
And I had a doctor
tell me then
1854
01:39:11,967 --> 01:39:14,300
that y'all just go ahead
and divorce her.
1855
01:39:14,300 --> 01:39:17,900
He said, "you know,
heroin junkies,
one out of..."
1856
01:39:17,900 --> 01:39:21,367
I don't know what
the statistic exactly is,
he said, "...ever stay clean.
1857
01:39:21,367 --> 01:39:24,133
This is just going
to cause you a lot
of pain and misery."
1858
01:39:24,133 --> 01:39:26,166
- Do you use drugs?
- No sir.
1859
01:39:26,166 --> 01:39:28,734
- Have you ever used drugs?
- Yes sir.
1860
01:39:28,734 --> 01:39:30,500
What did... what?
1861
01:39:30,500 --> 01:39:35,266
Marijuana.
I've tried coke,
some pills.
1862
01:39:35,266 --> 01:39:37,600
- Did you ever have a habit?
- No sir, never been...
1863
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,367
you were just casually
experimenting?
1864
01:39:39,367 --> 01:39:43,400
Just experimenting
as a teenager and going
to college.
1865
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,000
- Do you have a brain tumor?
- Yes sir.
1866
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,500
Is it troubling you now?
Have you got it
under control?
1867
01:39:49,500 --> 01:39:51,700
Well, I’m... I'm under
a doctor's care.
1868
01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:54,166
- Are you taking medication?
- Yes sir.
1869
01:39:54,166 --> 01:39:56,800
What, what?
1870
01:40:01,333 --> 01:40:03,266
Is it, uh...
well, just tell me
what it is,
1871
01:40:03,266 --> 01:40:05,734
tell me what it is.
Tell me what it does.
1872
01:40:05,734 --> 01:40:09,066
- Uh...
- Is it for
a nervous condition?
1873
01:40:09,066 --> 01:40:10,667
- Yes sir.
- Okay.
1874
01:40:10,667 --> 01:40:15,467
It helps... it helps me
for my anxiety
and panic attacks
1875
01:40:15,467 --> 01:40:18,000
and the terrible
nightmares that I have
1876
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:19,767
when I go to sleep
a lot of times.
1877
01:40:19,767 --> 01:40:21,433
Have you taken
your dosage today?
1878
01:40:21,433 --> 01:40:24,066
This one is
in the morning.
1879
01:40:24,066 --> 01:40:27,300
This one's in
the evening.
1880
01:40:27,300 --> 01:40:29,100
This one's
in the evening.
1881
01:40:29,100 --> 01:40:31,467
This one's
three times a day.
1882
01:40:31,467 --> 01:40:33,700
And this one's
three times a day.
1883
01:40:33,700 --> 01:40:38,467
The Xanax on me works like
Ritalin does on children.
1884
01:40:38,467 --> 01:40:40,266
What happens when you
don't take this?
1885
01:40:40,266 --> 01:40:42,467
I'll get real nervous
and just like my...
1886
01:40:42,467 --> 01:40:45,300
kind of paranoid feeling.
1887
01:40:45,300 --> 01:40:47,367
I'll just have
panic attacks.
1888
01:40:47,367 --> 01:40:50,600
Your doctor said
that you had a multitude
of psychiatric problems.
1889
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:52,700
What does
he mean by that?
1890
01:40:53,967 --> 01:40:56,667
Have you been diagnosed
as having a particular,
1891
01:40:56,667 --> 01:41:01,200
some sort of
psychiatric condition
that has a name to it
1892
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,467
that they've told you
about or anything?
1893
01:41:03,467 --> 01:41:04,900
Just from what she said,
1894
01:41:04,900 --> 01:41:08,533
"manic-depressive,
post-traumatic
stress syndrome."
1895
01:41:08,533 --> 01:41:10,066
You ever hallucinate?
1896
01:41:10,066 --> 01:41:11,767
Yes sir, I have.
1897
01:41:11,767 --> 01:41:14,200
I've seen a bug
on the floor
or something,
1898
01:41:14,200 --> 01:41:17,367
that's usually
when I'm in a manic
or a panic attack.
1899
01:41:17,367 --> 01:41:20,333
It'll seem like
I'll see things out
of the corner of my eye
1900
01:41:20,333 --> 01:41:22,467
and it's really
not there.
1901
01:41:22,467 --> 01:41:26,033
Have you ever believed
that you might have been
involved somehow...
1902
01:41:26,033 --> 01:41:28,667
- No sir, no sir.
- ...With those
little boys dying?
1903
01:41:28,667 --> 01:41:32,033
You've never had any
hallucinations or anything
dealing with that?
1904
01:41:32,033 --> 01:41:35,433
Only nightmares of hearing
my son crying for help
1905
01:41:35,433 --> 01:41:38,800
and I couldn't help him
'cause I didn't know
where he was.
1906
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:42,867
Michael Moore was found
in this area right here
at the bottom of the screen.
1907
01:41:42,867 --> 01:41:45,700
Steve branch was
found just behind
1908
01:41:45,700 --> 01:41:48,200
where these trees
are in the stream.
1909
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:52,934
And Christopher Byers was found
just below that body right here.
1910
01:41:52,934 --> 01:41:56,433
- This is exhibit 22, which is...
- ( Woman gasps )
1911
01:41:56,433 --> 01:41:58,400
...The body
of Michael Moore,
1912
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:02,967
after removing him
from the water
from where he was found.
1913
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,300
This is the body
of Steve branch.
1914
01:42:07,300 --> 01:42:11,400
Steve branch is
the young man that had
the injuries to his face.
1915
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,567
Lawyer:
Was it a particular
part of his face?
1916
01:42:14,567 --> 01:42:18,000
The left side
as you can see on there.
1917
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:22,133
Defense exhibit 24 is
the body of Christopher Byers.
1918
01:42:22,133 --> 01:42:24,133
Lawyer:
And what kind of injuries
1919
01:42:24,133 --> 01:42:27,400
did Chris Byers have
that you observed?
1920
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,734
It looked as though
his penis had been removed.
1921
01:42:30,734 --> 01:42:35,333
When they were describing
the injuries to my son,
1922
01:42:35,333 --> 01:42:37,600
of course I didn't see
many of the photos
1923
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:41,200
but just hearing
the description,
1924
01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:44,967
uh, it brought back things
1925
01:42:44,967 --> 01:42:48,400
that had happened
to me in my past
1926
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:51,433
when... ahem...
I was tortured
1927
01:42:51,433 --> 01:42:54,266
and when I was attacked
1928
01:42:54,266 --> 01:42:56,233
and when I had...
1929
01:42:56,233 --> 01:43:00,734
had five people
beat me up and torture me,
1930
01:43:00,734 --> 01:43:02,467
but I lived through it.
1931
01:43:02,467 --> 01:43:05,033
And it brought back
all those feelings
1932
01:43:05,033 --> 01:43:08,500
and all those emotions
of it happening to me.
1933
01:43:08,500 --> 01:43:13,500
And it was like they were
reading off what happened to me
1934
01:43:13,500 --> 01:43:17,567
and I lived through it instead
of what happened to Christopher.
1935
01:43:17,567 --> 01:43:20,934
And it was just almost
like a mental thing.
1936
01:43:20,934 --> 01:43:25,500
It just, uh... I basically
just had a mental breakdown
1937
01:43:25,500 --> 01:43:27,700
from just, you know,
from hearing it.
1938
01:43:27,700 --> 01:43:29,867
It was like
a living nightmare,
1939
01:43:29,867 --> 01:43:32,934
reliving it
all over again,
1940
01:43:32,934 --> 01:43:37,200
except it wasn't me that
they were reading it about.
It was my son.
1941
01:43:42,567 --> 01:43:44,367
Byers:
Uh, for my brain tumor.
1942
01:43:44,367 --> 01:43:46,800
It's been acting up,
giving me a lot of problems.
1943
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,367
I just passed out
the other day
1944
01:43:48,367 --> 01:43:50,100
and busted my head open
in the house,
1945
01:43:50,100 --> 01:43:52,767
- blacked out,
hit the door facing.
- Jeez.
1946
01:43:52,767 --> 01:43:55,033
It's going to have to be
operated on soon.
1947
01:43:55,033 --> 01:43:59,000
- Sauls: When are
you going to do that?
- Probably after Christmas.
1948
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:00,600
Sauls: Yeah?
1949
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,367
- Is some of these
Jonesboro folks?
- Sauls: Huh?
1950
01:44:04,367 --> 01:44:07,533
- Byers: Is this some
of these Jonesboro folks?
- Sauls: I don't know.
1951
01:44:07,533 --> 01:44:10,700
- Byers: Or are they
all out from west?
- All over the place.
1952
01:44:10,700 --> 01:44:13,934
There's about six or eight
from Arkansas, I think.
1953
01:44:13,934 --> 01:44:16,433
- Sauls: We got Ohio, we got...
- Man: New Jersey.
1954
01:44:16,433 --> 01:44:19,433
- New Jersey.
- Illinois.
1955
01:44:19,433 --> 01:44:20,767
California.
Tennessee.
1956
01:44:20,767 --> 01:44:22,700
Byers:
They say ignorance
spreads real fast.
1957
01:44:22,700 --> 01:44:24,934
Hey, why are you being so mean
to us now all of a sudden
1958
01:44:24,934 --> 01:44:27,166
- when the cameras are rolling?
- Byers: I'm not being mean.
1959
01:44:27,166 --> 01:44:28,934
You're so nice to us
when the cameras are off.
1960
01:44:28,934 --> 01:44:31,033
I'm not being mean to you.
I'm just speaking my mind.
1961
01:44:31,033 --> 01:44:33,333
- You are two people.
- Byers: No.
1962
01:44:33,333 --> 01:44:36,700
Yeah, you are.
You were my buddy last time.
What happened?
1963
01:44:36,700 --> 01:44:39,800
I never said you was
my best friend, you know.
1964
01:44:39,800 --> 01:44:41,433
Well, you were
nice to me at least.
1965
01:44:41,433 --> 01:44:43,834
Now you're telling me
I'm ignorant and an idiot
and all that.
1966
01:44:43,834 --> 01:44:45,700
It's like when
the cameras roll
I'm an idiot,
1967
01:44:45,700 --> 01:44:47,767
when they're not,
we're buddies.
What's up with that?
1968
01:44:47,767 --> 01:44:49,867
The truth hurts.
Might as well be
on film.
1969
01:44:49,867 --> 01:44:51,300
Okay, so this
is the truth?
1970
01:44:51,300 --> 01:44:53,433
So when the cameras stop
that's not the truth?
1971
01:44:53,433 --> 01:44:55,300
- No.
- That's the untrue part.
1972
01:44:55,300 --> 01:44:57,367
- No.
- Which one's true?
1973
01:44:57,367 --> 01:45:00,300
The way I act
around you is one thing.
1974
01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:03,600
Two things.
Which one's real though?
1975
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:05,834
Which one
you think's real?
1976
01:45:05,834 --> 01:45:08,633
- I don't know.
- Well, I guess
it'll stay a mystery then.
1977
01:45:08,633 --> 01:45:10,633
Okay.
1978
01:45:10,633 --> 01:45:13,166
Bakken: Mark, did you ever
give your bite impressions
to the defense?
1979
01:45:13,166 --> 01:45:15,233
Byers:
There's not going
to be any need to do that.
1980
01:45:15,233 --> 01:45:17,266
I'll be taking
a polygraph very soon.
1981
01:45:17,266 --> 01:45:21,066
And when that's all cleared,
why should I give bite marks?
1982
01:45:21,066 --> 01:45:23,667
Bakken: Just that
the bite marks would
exclude you absolutely.
1983
01:45:23,667 --> 01:45:26,600
- I think that would be good.
- Bite marks would
exclude me anyway.
1984
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,834
I don't have any teeth.
These are dentures.
1985
01:45:32,266 --> 01:45:34,333
- Bakken: The bottom ones
are too?
- Yeah.
1986
01:45:34,333 --> 01:45:36,900
So you're going to take bite
marks of two gum prints?
1987
01:45:36,900 --> 01:45:39,367
- Gimme a break.
- Bakken: Or some
old dental records.
1988
01:45:39,367 --> 01:45:41,934
They were done before
the kids were murdered.
1989
01:45:41,934 --> 01:45:44,967
Strikes all
that theory out.
1990
01:45:44,967 --> 01:45:46,867
When did you
get your dentures?
1991
01:45:46,867 --> 01:45:49,200
'Cause I think I remember
on the steps you said that
1992
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,533
that was a little...
you said it was after the kids.
1993
01:45:51,533 --> 01:45:53,033
Byers:
It was right then.
1994
01:45:53,033 --> 01:45:55,300
Bakken:
You had your dentures
right when they died?
1995
01:45:55,300 --> 01:45:58,200
No, I've had them
since '93... the start.
1996
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:00,633
Bakken:
'Cause last time
you said it was after.
1997
01:46:00,633 --> 01:46:03,433
- My mistake.
- Prichason: How did you
lose your teeth?
1998
01:46:03,433 --> 01:46:06,166
Because I've heard you
lost 'em but not how.
1999
01:46:06,166 --> 01:46:11,000
Because I was taking tegretol
for my epileptic seizures.
2000
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:14,567
And tegretol causes
periodontal disease
2001
01:46:14,567 --> 01:46:17,166
and they all started rotting
and falling and coming out.
2002
01:46:17,166 --> 01:46:19,433
They just fall out?
You didn't have
to pull 'em?
2003
01:46:19,433 --> 01:46:21,400
Yeah, you have
periodontal disease.
2004
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:25,100
That's when the gums literally
move away from your teeth.
2005
01:46:56,166 --> 01:46:59,200
It's my understanding
that the odontologist
2006
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:02,767
has now reviewed
bite-Mark impressions
from all three defendants,
2007
01:47:02,767 --> 01:47:07,100
compared them
with the bite Mark which
2008
01:47:07,100 --> 01:47:09,633
the odontologist
has identified.
2009
01:47:09,633 --> 01:47:13,300
And we can exclude the three
defendants who've been convicted
2010
01:47:13,300 --> 01:47:15,600
as the person who
made that bite Mark.
2011
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:17,934
What's exciting
about this is
2012
01:47:17,934 --> 01:47:22,633
we now know that this kid
was bitten by someone
2013
01:47:22,633 --> 01:47:27,400
and this someone was not
any of the three defendants.
2014
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,033
And it's just...
I wish and pray
2015
01:47:30,033 --> 01:47:33,400
that this information
would have been available
to us back at trial.
2016
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:36,233
I think the result would have
been dramatically different.
2017
01:47:36,233 --> 01:47:37,900
Turvey:
This is the interesting thing:
2018
01:47:37,900 --> 01:47:40,500
Brent Davis, the prosecutor,
claims that
2019
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:42,567
this is not a bite Mark.
2020
01:47:42,567 --> 01:47:46,367
But as frank peretti...
who performed the original
autopsy...
2021
01:47:46,367 --> 01:47:49,867
says, that this is
a bell-shaped pattern abrasion
2022
01:47:49,867 --> 01:47:53,033
that is consistent
with a belt buckle.
2023
01:47:53,033 --> 01:47:56,500
They're interpreting,
having... looking back
at this injury,
2024
01:47:56,500 --> 01:47:58,900
they're interpreting it...
and it's only a two-dimen...
2025
01:47:58,900 --> 01:48:00,734
this is a two-dimensional
surface.
2026
01:48:00,734 --> 01:48:02,900
If we were looking
at a three-dimensional surface
2027
01:48:02,900 --> 01:48:05,000
we would see that this
actually creates a circle
2028
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:07,266
because the eye socket
curves in and curves under.
2029
01:48:07,266 --> 01:48:10,066
The two-dimensional photograph
makes it look like a bell shape.
2030
01:48:10,066 --> 01:48:13,066
Basically they're
going to put on two guys...
2031
01:48:13,066 --> 01:48:16,066
one of which did
the original autopsy
2032
01:48:16,066 --> 01:48:17,467
and missed
this bite Mark
2033
01:48:17,467 --> 01:48:20,066
and basically state that
this isn't a bite Mark.
2034
01:48:20,066 --> 01:48:22,700
The bottom line here is that
this is not legal trickery.
2035
01:48:22,700 --> 01:48:25,333
This is
hard physical evidence
of somebody else
2036
01:48:25,333 --> 01:48:27,300
committing
this crime.
2037
01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:53,233
Woman:
I know you've been here
for just about every hearing.
2038
01:48:53,233 --> 01:48:55,100
Can you tell me
your opinion on this?
2039
01:48:55,100 --> 01:48:58,266
I think the fact that
there's bite marks and they
don't match the three
2040
01:48:58,266 --> 01:49:00,633
is pretty much proof
that they didn't do this.
2041
01:49:00,633 --> 01:49:04,266
And the big thing now is
that for the first time
in the history of this case,
2042
01:49:04,266 --> 01:49:08,200
we've got
qualified experts involved.
It's as simple as that.
2043
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:10,166
What does he think
it will do to his case?
2044
01:49:10,166 --> 01:49:12,700
Well, he knows
he's gonna be out
of prison before long.
2045
01:49:12,700 --> 01:49:15,066
Eventually the truth
is gonna come out.
2046
01:49:15,066 --> 01:49:17,133
- Woman: Are you gonna
be here till the end?
- Yes.
2047
01:49:17,133 --> 01:49:19,867
I'm gonna be here
however many times it takes.
2048
01:49:19,867 --> 01:49:22,734
- Have you been
following the case?
- No.
2049
01:49:22,734 --> 01:49:24,967
You know, but I seen
what happened.
2050
01:49:24,967 --> 01:49:26,834
- You saw what happened?
- Mm-hmm.
2051
01:49:26,834 --> 01:49:29,567
- What happened?
- I'm not sure if the three
boys done it or not,
2052
01:49:29,567 --> 01:49:32,066
but three boys were there...
excuse me...
2053
01:49:32,066 --> 01:49:33,700
the three boys
were there,
2054
01:49:33,700 --> 01:49:36,500
but there's one more that's
running around loose right now.
2055
01:49:36,500 --> 01:49:39,400
- And he lives here
in Jonesboro right now.
- Who he is?
2056
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:41,667
Mark Byers.
2057
01:49:41,667 --> 01:49:44,500
You believe Mark Byers
had something to do
with this?
2058
01:49:44,500 --> 01:49:47,800
He-he was
holding a knife.
2059
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,533
What more proof do you need?
He was holding a knife.
2060
01:49:50,533 --> 01:49:53,367
The three boys were not
holding a knife.
Mark Byers was.
2061
01:49:53,367 --> 01:49:56,200
- Woman #2: And how did
you witness this?
- Man: I seen it.
2062
01:49:56,200 --> 01:49:57,967
Man #2:
Have you told the police
what you saw?
2063
01:49:57,967 --> 01:50:00,300
I tried to tell the police,
but nobody wants
to listen to me.
2064
01:50:00,300 --> 01:50:02,867
I've tried to tell
the prosecutors, but they
don't want to listen to me.
2065
01:50:02,867 --> 01:50:04,133
Woman #3:
Why don't they want
to listen?
2066
01:50:04,133 --> 01:50:05,433
I been in an accident
before, you know,
2067
01:50:05,433 --> 01:50:06,800
and they think
I'm all scrambled up.
2068
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,333
I'm probably signing
my death warrant right now.
2069
01:50:09,333 --> 01:50:11,633
I'm probably
doing that right now,
but I don't care.
2070
01:50:11,633 --> 01:50:14,233
- Woman #4:
What is your name, sir?
- But I don't care.
2071
01:50:14,233 --> 01:50:16,500
You can get it
somewhere else.
2072
01:50:16,500 --> 01:50:18,533
I have no more comments.
2073
01:50:22,200 --> 01:50:25,333
The guy that you just
interviewed over there?
That's "sensational."
2074
01:50:25,333 --> 01:50:27,533
He's like... he's just
like Jessie Misskelley.
2075
01:50:27,533 --> 01:50:29,333
He's a guy
who's got a story
2076
01:50:29,333 --> 01:50:32,166
and you're gonna...
I bet... here's my bet...
2077
01:50:32,166 --> 01:50:33,734
I don't know
what I'm gonna do...
2078
01:50:33,734 --> 01:50:35,333
we're gonna see that
on the news tonight.
2079
01:50:35,333 --> 01:50:36,867
I don't know
what I'm gonna do.
2080
01:50:36,867 --> 01:50:39,333
And it's gonna be
"big groundbreaking
revelation confession."
2081
01:50:39,333 --> 01:50:42,300
- And you guys are gonna...
- just as long as that's
not the only thing.
2082
01:50:42,300 --> 01:50:45,166
Don't pre-empt
everything else
to show that.
2083
01:50:45,166 --> 01:50:47,367
But I wonder if you're
gonna use any footage
2084
01:50:47,367 --> 01:50:50,400
that you got of Steve baker
or anything that talks
about facts
2085
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:52,700
or anything that was
brought up in court today.
2086
01:50:52,700 --> 01:50:54,467
Any of the...
any of the "news"...
2087
01:50:54,467 --> 01:50:58,233
- Yes, I agree it's the news.
- ...As opposed to the fiction.
2088
01:50:58,233 --> 01:51:01,734
Only one news story
that I saw mentioned that
the bite-Mark impressions
2089
01:51:01,734 --> 01:51:04,600
did not match any
of the three boys in jail.
2090
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:07,600
That was the big news
yesterday and none
of the reporters were here.
2091
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:09,967
And nobody mentioned it
except for one news report
2092
01:51:09,967 --> 01:51:12,433
that I saw this morning
added it as an afterthought.
2093
01:51:12,433 --> 01:51:15,600
"Oh, and by the way,
none of the bite impressions
taken matched."
2094
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:18,467
Well, see, I got that
afterwards because
I couldn't stay here.
2095
01:51:18,467 --> 01:51:20,934
- So I had to call someone.
And so I added in...
- but you could have asked.
2096
01:51:20,934 --> 01:51:23,500
- Sauls: Everybody dashed out.
- Well, we did. We came here.
2097
01:51:23,500 --> 01:51:25,667
Oh, I did and I put that
at the end of my story.
2098
01:51:25,667 --> 01:51:27,767
- I had that at
the end of my story.
- Sauls: Okay.
2099
01:51:27,767 --> 01:51:30,834
But in the first case,
2100
01:51:30,834 --> 01:51:33,333
did the state bring
their own odontologist?
2101
01:51:33,333 --> 01:51:35,166
No, there was never
a mention of bite marks.
2102
01:51:35,166 --> 01:51:37,266
They wouldn't have
brought an odontologist.
2103
01:51:37,266 --> 01:51:39,967
If they had
brought an odontologist,
that would have suggested
2104
01:51:39,967 --> 01:51:43,133
that they knew
there were bite marks
or some reason to bring one.
2105
01:51:43,133 --> 01:51:46,667
But there was no...
originally it was either
overlooked or ignored,
2106
01:51:46,667 --> 01:51:49,367
so they had no reason
to bring in an odontologist
2107
01:51:49,367 --> 01:51:51,700
because it wasn't mentioned
in the first trial.
2108
01:51:51,700 --> 01:51:55,400
When would that...
I mean, 'cause someone
told me that and...
2109
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:57,533
Sauls:
Someone lied to you.
2110
01:51:57,533 --> 01:52:00,233
You probably saw it
on the news.
2111
01:52:00,233 --> 01:52:01,734
I don't...
( Laughs )
2112
01:52:01,734 --> 01:52:03,233
Maybe.
2113
01:52:11,533 --> 01:52:14,300
Announcer:
Now live from your
good neighbor station,
2114
01:52:14,300 --> 01:52:16,300
this is k8 news at 6.
2115
01:52:16,300 --> 01:52:18,266
Reporter:
It was a packed courtroom again
2116
01:52:18,266 --> 01:52:21,133
as supporters and families
of both victims and convicted
2117
01:52:21,133 --> 01:52:23,600
listened to the last day
of testimony.
2118
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:25,900
The state called
two state medical examiners
2119
01:52:25,900 --> 01:52:28,200
who testified they did not
find any bite marks.
2120
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:30,867
However, an ondontologist,
Dr. Thomas David,
2121
01:52:30,867 --> 01:52:34,600
testified for the defense
that in his opinion
it was a bite Mark.
2122
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:36,533
The state-called
Dr. Harry mincer,
2123
01:52:36,533 --> 01:52:38,367
also a forensic
ondontologist,
2124
01:52:38,367 --> 01:52:41,266
said that it was not
a human bite Mark.
2125
01:52:41,266 --> 01:52:43,800
While the state and defense
seesaw back and forth,
2126
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:46,834
Damien's supporters
remain optimistic.
2127
01:52:46,834 --> 01:52:48,433
- How are you doing?
- Byers: Fine.
2128
01:52:48,433 --> 01:52:50,734
Good.
Okay, here's the deal:
2129
01:52:50,734 --> 01:52:53,433
- They're gonna talk
to me from New York.
- Mm-hmm.
2130
01:52:53,433 --> 01:52:56,467
You're not gonna
be talking to me.
We're gonna put an earpiece in.
2131
01:52:56,467 --> 01:52:59,066
You're gonna
hear Gregg Jarrett.
He's the host in New York.
2132
01:52:59,066 --> 01:53:01,867
His name Gregg.
You can just call him Gregg,
if you want to.
2133
01:53:01,867 --> 01:53:04,300
- Gotcha.
- And when you
answer his questions
2134
01:53:04,300 --> 01:53:06,600
just look at the camera
instead of me.
2135
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:08,300
- Okay?
- No problem.
2136
01:53:09,667 --> 01:53:11,667
Act like I've done it
a hundred times.
2137
01:53:11,667 --> 01:53:13,700
You have done it
a hundred times.
2138
01:53:13,700 --> 01:53:15,500
Run this down
your shirt...
2139
01:53:15,500 --> 01:53:18,367
- Tim: Is he all right?
- He's fine. He's fine
where he is.
2140
01:53:18,367 --> 01:53:21,400
Is my son's
picture good?
2141
01:53:24,667 --> 01:53:27,133
We're joined now
by John Mark Byers,
2142
01:53:27,133 --> 01:53:30,600
adoptive father of the victim
Christopher Byers.
2143
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:32,567
Thank you for taking
the time with us.
2144
01:53:32,567 --> 01:53:35,433
- Mark, go ahead.
- Mr. Byers?
2145
01:53:35,433 --> 01:53:38,533
- They didn't ask me.
- Mr. Byers, do you hear me?
2146
01:53:38,533 --> 01:53:40,367
He hasn't said
a word to me.
2147
01:53:40,367 --> 01:53:43,166
- Can you hear him?
- No, there's nothing
coming through here.
2148
01:53:43,166 --> 01:53:45,367
Obviously we're having
some technical difficulties.
2149
01:53:45,367 --> 01:53:47,367
Man:
Mr. Byers, can you hear me?
This is New York.
2150
01:53:47,367 --> 01:53:49,367
- Mr. Byers?
- He's not speaking to me.
2151
01:53:49,367 --> 01:53:51,533
- Tim, can you...?
- Yeah, I can hear you, Gregg.
2152
01:53:51,533 --> 01:53:53,734
- Can you hear
them now, Mr. Byers?
- No, I cannot.
2153
01:53:53,734 --> 01:53:56,066
You're okay, Timmy.
Don't worry about your Mike.
2154
01:53:56,066 --> 01:53:57,734
- I got you dead.
- Can you hear him now?
2155
01:53:57,734 --> 01:54:00,266
So let's get it
checked in and we'll go
for the third block.
2156
01:54:00,266 --> 01:54:02,400
- Does that make sense, Tim?
- Yeah, that's fine.
2157
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:04,934
- See if his thing is kinked.
- Mr. Sauls is gonna join us.
2158
01:54:04,934 --> 01:54:06,333
It'll be
in two minutes.
2159
01:54:06,333 --> 01:54:08,767
( Production chatter )
2160
01:54:12,934 --> 01:54:14,967
- Timmy, you still
got me right?
- I got ya, dom, I got ya.
2161
01:54:14,967 --> 01:54:16,934
- Mr. Sauls can you
hear me, sir?
- Yes.
2162
01:54:16,934 --> 01:54:18,600
- You can.
- Yes.
2163
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:21,433
- And, Mr. Byers, can you
hear me, sir?
- Yes, I can.
2164
01:54:21,433 --> 01:54:23,500
Okay, thank you.
2165
01:54:25,333 --> 01:54:27,600
Mr. Byers
joins us again.
2166
01:54:27,600 --> 01:54:29,700
Hopefully we've solved
the technical problem.
2167
01:54:29,700 --> 01:54:31,867
- Can you hear me now?
- Yes, I can.
2168
01:54:31,867 --> 01:54:34,834
What do you think of echols
and the defense team
2169
01:54:34,834 --> 01:54:36,433
saying you're the killer?
2170
01:54:36,433 --> 01:54:38,400
I have a very
good answer for that:
2171
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:41,567
I'm 6'8"
and weigh 252 lbs.
2172
01:54:41,567 --> 01:54:43,734
I'm the largest
red herring
2173
01:54:43,734 --> 01:54:46,600
they've ever thrown
in a jury box.
2174
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:49,633
Someone else
to take the jury's mind
2175
01:54:49,633 --> 01:54:52,166
off the three
real murderers.
2176
01:54:52,166 --> 01:54:56,700
All right,
joining us now also is,
in Jonesboro, burk Sauls.
2177
01:54:56,700 --> 01:55:00,967
He helps run the free
the west Memphis three
support fund.
2178
01:55:00,967 --> 01:55:03,834
Do you believe
that Mr. Byers is
the real killer?
2179
01:55:03,834 --> 01:55:06,333
I don't really...
2180
01:55:06,333 --> 01:55:09,066
that's not the point
of what we're doing here.
2181
01:55:09,066 --> 01:55:10,633
I'm not here
to accuse anyone.
2182
01:55:10,633 --> 01:55:13,600
That's actually what happened
to these three guys.
2183
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:16,100
One of things that I guess
a lot of people can't get over
2184
01:55:16,100 --> 01:55:19,500
is one of the three defendants...
all three were convicted...
2185
01:55:19,500 --> 01:55:21,834
Jessie Misskelley
confessed.
2186
01:55:21,834 --> 01:55:24,467
Uh, how do you
account for that?
2187
01:55:24,467 --> 01:55:27,266
Well, to the experts that
testified in the trial
2188
01:55:27,266 --> 01:55:29,500
it was a... it was a...
2189
01:55:29,500 --> 01:55:34,100
to them it was a...
a forced confession.
It was coerced.
2190
01:55:34,100 --> 01:55:35,700
What was coercive
about it?
2191
01:55:35,700 --> 01:55:37,967
For one thing, there was
a timeline problem
2192
01:55:37,967 --> 01:55:41,300
where he stated it
happened early in the day
2193
01:55:41,300 --> 01:55:43,367
and they led him
down to the time
2194
01:55:43,367 --> 01:55:46,567
that they wanted him to say
that it had happened.
2195
01:55:46,567 --> 01:55:49,533
And he eventually
gave 'em what they wanted.
2196
01:55:49,533 --> 01:55:52,367
I want to thank all of you
for being with us.
We appreciate it.
2197
01:55:52,367 --> 01:55:54,100
Coming up next
on "prime time justice,"
2198
01:55:54,100 --> 01:55:56,900
President Clinton's war
with independent counsel
Ken Starr
2199
01:55:56,900 --> 01:55:58,533
isn't over yet.
2200
01:55:58,533 --> 01:56:01,033
( Music playing )
2201
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:38,033
Grinnell:
I really appreciate what
y'all have done for them.
2202
01:56:38,033 --> 01:56:40,467
I think just the fact
that we live in Los Angeles
2203
01:56:40,467 --> 01:56:42,967
where there may be some talents,
that we can probably
2204
01:56:42,967 --> 01:56:44,667
help this case out
somewhat.
2205
01:56:44,667 --> 01:56:47,333
Pam:
I know at the airport yesterday
there was a young guy
2206
01:56:47,333 --> 01:56:49,667
that walked past us
and he had on a black shirt,
2207
01:56:49,667 --> 01:56:52,133
black pants,
black trench coat
and black boots.
2208
01:56:52,133 --> 01:56:54,033
And I thought...
( Gasps )
2209
01:56:54,033 --> 01:56:56,333
"You get in trouble
in that at some places."
2210
01:56:56,333 --> 01:56:57,734
Bakken:
Yeah, welcome to L.A.
2211
01:56:57,734 --> 01:56:59,900
50% of the people
that live here dress
like that.
2212
01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:02,100
We were like, "well,
there's a guy wearing all black.
2213
01:57:02,100 --> 01:57:03,734
There's a woman wearing
all black.
2214
01:57:03,734 --> 01:57:07,633
There's another
guy wearing all black."
It's a flattering color.
2215
01:57:07,633 --> 01:57:10,033
Pam:
A lot of the reason
that Damien wore the black
2216
01:57:10,033 --> 01:57:12,767
was because someone told him
that he was sexy in the black.
2217
01:57:12,767 --> 01:57:16,200
And then he wore it
most of the time.
2218
01:57:16,200 --> 01:57:17,767
Pashley:
That's your argument.
2219
01:57:17,767 --> 01:57:19,900
That's your argument
that these guys are guilty.
2220
01:57:19,900 --> 01:57:21,867
It's like, "come on,
how silly is this?"
2221
01:57:21,867 --> 01:57:23,600
So... and of course
it was the media,
2222
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:25,934
that portrayed these guys
to start, anything that...
2223
01:57:25,934 --> 01:57:27,100
That's what did it.
2224
01:57:27,100 --> 01:57:29,667
And I couldn't
believe all the...
2225
01:57:29,667 --> 01:57:32,800
they overwhelmed us
from the very beginning
2226
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:34,200
when they arrested 'em
2227
01:57:34,200 --> 01:57:36,033
- and the media attacked them.
- Yeah.
2228
01:57:36,033 --> 01:57:38,633
See, now it's our turn
to use the media
to our advantage.
2229
01:57:38,633 --> 01:57:41,200
'Cause the first time
around there was
no critical thinking.
2230
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:43,900
They just reported
whatever they might
have heard or a rumor.
2231
01:57:43,900 --> 01:57:46,734
And they report it
and you hear it on the news
and you think it's true.
2232
01:57:46,734 --> 01:57:49,633
Well, now we have
the "Leeza" show
to show fact.
2233
01:57:49,633 --> 01:57:52,300
For once. You know,
it's not emotional.
2234
01:57:52,300 --> 01:57:54,367
It's not about
how people feel.
2235
01:57:54,367 --> 01:57:55,600
It's about facts.
2236
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:57,533
And we're glad to have
you guys here too.
2237
01:57:57,533 --> 01:58:00,734
It's really important to have
your guys' voices be heard.
2238
01:58:00,734 --> 01:58:04,133
- Bakken: Are you guys
nervous about the show?
- Very.
2239
01:58:04,133 --> 01:58:07,233
Just be yourselves.
You'll do good.
2240
01:58:07,233 --> 01:58:09,133
Sauls:
You'll be fine.
2241
01:58:10,533 --> 01:58:12,033
- You still a little nervous?
- ( Elevator dings )
2242
01:58:12,033 --> 01:58:14,400
Very. I'm very nervous.
2243
01:58:38,333 --> 01:58:41,266
( Theme music playing )
2244
01:58:46,700 --> 01:58:49,367
- ( Applause )
- Leeza: Hello, everyone.
Thank you.
2245
01:58:49,367 --> 01:58:51,500
Thanks for joining us
once again.
2246
01:58:51,500 --> 01:58:54,166
Stidham:
How do you feel like
the "leeza" show went?
2247
01:58:54,166 --> 01:58:57,100
- Do you think it went well or?
- I thought it really well.
2248
01:58:57,100 --> 01:58:58,834
You could hear people
in the background
2249
01:58:58,834 --> 01:59:00,700
that didn't know
anything about the case,
2250
01:59:00,700 --> 01:59:03,333
you could hear 'em
coming along as they
presented stuff.
2251
01:59:03,333 --> 01:59:06,100
Like the first...
when the mothers
were out there,
2252
01:59:06,100 --> 01:59:07,600
there was sort
of some skepticism.
2253
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:09,166
You could kind
of hear 'em talking,
2254
01:59:09,166 --> 01:59:11,367
like no one was sure whether
to believe it or not.
2255
01:59:11,367 --> 01:59:14,367
And then as more
and more came out and you guys
were talking more,
2256
01:59:14,367 --> 01:59:16,567
you could hear people
starting to get angry.
2257
01:59:16,567 --> 01:59:18,633
What was the audience
reaction about the...
2258
01:59:18,633 --> 01:59:20,734
when they learned
that all three defendants
2259
01:59:20,734 --> 01:59:22,834
had been excluded
from making the bite Mark?
2260
01:59:22,834 --> 01:59:25,133
It was like,
"match the bite Mark,
find the killer."
2261
01:59:25,133 --> 01:59:26,800
I mean, I think
everybody got that.
2262
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:28,934
It was like
"okay, so the kids don't
match the bite Mark."
2263
01:59:28,934 --> 01:59:30,567
I think
it sort of sunk in
that that means...
2264
01:59:30,567 --> 01:59:32,367
the kid shouldn't have
a bite Mark on his face.
2265
01:59:32,367 --> 01:59:34,400
He didn't leave home
with a big fat bite Mark
on his face.
2266
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:36,133
If they missed that,
what else did they miss?
2267
01:59:36,133 --> 01:59:39,000
So did you guys see anything
in Byers' interview,
2268
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:42,400
like, did you guys notice
the conflicting stories?
2269
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:44,200
What did you
read from that?
2270
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,066
Did you get
anything from that?
2271
01:59:46,066 --> 01:59:50,834
Well, obviously, I think
he's a little mixed up
2272
01:59:50,834 --> 01:59:54,400
- about his felony history.
- ( Both laugh )
2273
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,800
I noticed Byers wasn't
wearing his teeth
in the interview.
2274
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:59,867
- That's true.
- Now what happened
with his teeth, do you know?
2275
01:59:59,867 --> 02:00:02,667
Well, there's several
different versions
of what happened.
2276
02:00:02,667 --> 02:00:04,300
The first version
that I heard was
2277
02:00:04,300 --> 02:00:06,133
he got 'em knocked out
in a fight.
2278
02:00:06,133 --> 02:00:08,600
He changes his story.
First, a long time
ago he said
2279
02:00:08,600 --> 02:00:10,333
he got 'em knocked out
in a fight.
2280
02:00:10,333 --> 02:00:12,433
Then he told leeza that he
had 'em surgically removed.
2281
02:00:12,433 --> 02:00:14,300
And he told me that
he had taken tegretol
2282
02:00:14,300 --> 02:00:16,100
and that they had just
kind of rotted out.
2283
02:00:16,100 --> 02:00:18,133
- Oh boy.
- Burk and grove
told me last night
2284
02:00:18,133 --> 02:00:21,033
that something about Byers
had left his teeth somewhere
2285
02:00:21,033 --> 02:00:23,900
and that's why he didn't have
them on during the taping.
2286
02:00:23,900 --> 02:00:25,500
What was
the story on that?
2287
02:00:25,500 --> 02:00:28,767
I think the producers
of the show said that
2288
02:00:28,767 --> 02:00:30,166
um, Byers had told them
2289
02:00:30,166 --> 02:00:32,700
that he left them in
a restaurant somewhere.
2290
02:00:32,700 --> 02:00:35,200
And so his last parting words
to the producers
2291
02:00:35,200 --> 02:00:36,700
when he was
leaving the show,
2292
02:00:36,700 --> 02:00:38,667
which he had done
without his teeth, is
2293
02:00:38,667 --> 02:00:41,066
"I'm not leavin' L.A.
without my teeth!"
2294
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:44,300
The test is
about to begin.
2295
02:00:46,300 --> 02:00:48,900
Is this the month
of October?
2296
02:00:48,900 --> 02:00:51,166
Yes.
2297
02:00:51,166 --> 02:00:53,367
Regarding those deaths,
2298
02:00:53,367 --> 02:00:56,100
do you intend
to answer truthfully
each question about that?
2299
02:00:56,100 --> 02:00:58,400
Yes.
2300
02:01:00,166 --> 02:01:01,700
Other than what
we've talked about,
2301
02:01:01,700 --> 02:01:04,066
did you ever wish
any person would die?
2302
02:01:04,066 --> 02:01:06,333
No.
2303
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,166
Did you harm
any of those boys?
2304
02:01:10,166 --> 02:01:11,967
No.
2305
02:01:15,066 --> 02:01:16,834
Other than what
we've talked about,
2306
02:01:16,834 --> 02:01:19,233
did you ever think
about hurting anyone?
2307
02:01:19,233 --> 02:01:21,467
No.
2308
02:01:27,233 --> 02:01:30,133
Did you harm any
of those boys found
at Robin hood hills?
2309
02:01:30,133 --> 02:01:32,033
No.
2310
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:39,767
The test is over.
Remain seated,
looking straight ahead.
2311
02:01:43,934 --> 02:01:45,567
Bakken:
Here's the website.
2312
02:01:45,567 --> 02:01:47,133
This is how all
the people find us.
2313
02:01:47,133 --> 02:01:48,700
They can come on here
and they can read about
2314
02:01:48,700 --> 02:01:50,133
everything that's
been going on.
2315
02:01:50,133 --> 02:01:52,333
Sauls:
It's a pretty
good synopsis of...
2316
02:01:52,333 --> 02:01:55,600
- Mm-hmm.
- ...Of our involvement
and what happened.
2317
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:58,300
Bakken:
We have an individual page
for each...
2318
02:01:58,300 --> 02:02:01,100
Damien, Jason and Jessie.
They each have their own page.
2319
02:02:01,100 --> 02:02:02,934
Then there's
different links,
2320
02:02:02,934 --> 02:02:04,934
like the college fund
for Damien.
2321
02:02:04,934 --> 02:02:07,033
You know his...
where it stands
right now with him.
2322
02:02:07,033 --> 02:02:09,867
- That's a really
good picture of Damien.
- Man: That's a good picture.
2323
02:02:09,867 --> 02:02:13,533
- Oh yeah,
that looks good.
- Bakken: Kind of dapper.
2324
02:02:13,533 --> 02:02:17,533
Here's Jason's page.
He has some poems that we got.
2325
02:02:17,533 --> 02:02:20,600
So we have an extra page
just for his poetry.
2326
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:24,600
I never dreamed
he could write poetry
the way he does.
2327
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:26,800
Bakken:
Read his poem.
2328
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:29,767
"An electric charge
is in the air
2329
02:02:29,767 --> 02:02:31,900
the scent
of burning ozone,
2330
02:02:31,900 --> 02:02:34,667
the deep bass
of thunder rumbles,
2331
02:02:34,667 --> 02:02:36,934
we feel it
in our stomach.
2332
02:02:36,934 --> 02:02:39,734
The wind picks up,
the clouds choke up
2333
02:02:39,734 --> 02:02:42,166
to blot out
the blue skies.
2334
02:02:42,166 --> 02:02:44,900
The rain pours down,
drenching my soul.
2335
02:02:44,900 --> 02:02:46,266
You are there
2336
02:02:46,266 --> 02:02:51,200
and I no longer
face the storm alone."
2337
02:02:55,467 --> 02:02:57,100
Mark, are you
feeling better?
2338
02:02:57,100 --> 02:02:58,934
You got that arm
straightened out
2339
02:02:58,934 --> 02:03:00,967
- and had that smoke?
- The thing's remarkable.
2340
02:03:00,967 --> 02:03:03,266
- Congratulations.
- Well, thank you, sir.
2341
02:03:03,266 --> 02:03:05,567
I don't, uh... according
to what we have here,
2342
02:03:05,567 --> 02:03:07,200
your responses
on the chart,
2343
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:08,800
I feel you're
telling the truth
2344
02:03:08,800 --> 02:03:10,467
about the issues
we worked with
2345
02:03:10,467 --> 02:03:13,300
as far as you see them.
As you see them.
2346
02:03:13,300 --> 02:03:15,834
Give me a high-five.
2347
02:03:15,834 --> 02:03:17,967
Thank you!
I knew it was right.
2348
02:03:17,967 --> 02:03:19,333
I knew
I was innocent.
2349
02:03:19,333 --> 02:03:22,400
And to all of you morons,
fools and idiots
2350
02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:24,967
that thought I had
anything to do with it,
2351
02:03:24,967 --> 02:03:26,800
I am now vindicated.
2352
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,767
Maybe this'll serve a point
to some of y'all.
2353
02:03:29,767 --> 02:03:34,367
And I feel sorry
and my heart goes out
to the victims
2354
02:03:34,367 --> 02:03:39,333
that have to be put through
things such as this
2355
02:03:39,333 --> 02:03:41,834
to just already
try to clear my name
2356
02:03:41,834 --> 02:03:44,066
when it's already been
vindicated once...
2357
02:03:44,066 --> 02:03:48,467
now it's been vindicated twice
by a professional
2358
02:03:48,467 --> 02:03:51,567
who I have
the utmost respect for.
2359
02:03:51,567 --> 02:03:55,166
And I want each and every one
of you devil-worshippers to know
2360
02:03:55,166 --> 02:03:57,300
that you are wrong
and you need to go
2361
02:03:57,300 --> 02:04:01,667
on another ghost-hunt
and leave me alone.
2362
02:04:01,667 --> 02:04:03,367
( Beeps )
2363
02:04:03,367 --> 02:04:07,266
Computer voice:
Your call is being connected.
Thank you for using MCI.
2364
02:04:07,266 --> 02:04:10,033
- Hello?
- Damien: Hello.
2365
02:04:10,033 --> 02:04:12,433
- Bakken: How are you doing?
- Am I on speakerphone?
2366
02:04:12,433 --> 02:04:14,467
- Bakken: Yes.
- Pashley: Hey, Damien.
2367
02:04:14,467 --> 02:04:17,333
- Bakken: Your mom's here.
- Yes, say hi.
2368
02:04:17,333 --> 02:04:18,900
- Hi, son.
- Hello.
2369
02:04:18,900 --> 02:04:21,567
- How are you doing?
- Okay, I suppose.
2370
02:04:21,567 --> 02:04:24,667
- You okay?
- Pam: I miss you.
Yeah, I'm okay.
2371
02:04:24,667 --> 02:04:26,800
- Are you okay?
- Yeah.
2372
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:29,066
- Okay.
- Yeah.
2373
02:04:29,066 --> 02:04:31,133
- ( Crying )
I miss you.
- Miss you too.
2374
02:04:31,133 --> 02:04:33,367
I don't want to hear
any of that either.
2375
02:04:37,900 --> 02:04:40,967
I know you lie every time
you come here too,
2376
02:04:40,967 --> 02:04:44,400
whenever you say you're not
gonna cry on the way home.
2377
02:04:44,400 --> 02:04:46,567
But then you get out
in the parking lot...
2378
02:04:47,734 --> 02:04:50,667
- ( Whispers )
And you cry.
- Not every time.
2379
02:04:50,667 --> 02:04:53,767
- ( Sniffs )
- Why are you crying?
2380
02:04:53,767 --> 02:04:55,900
I just miss you.
2381
02:04:55,900 --> 02:04:59,200
I miss you too,
but I'm not doing all that.
2382
02:05:00,233 --> 02:05:02,734
Calm down.
2383
02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:08,500
- I love you.
- I love you, baby.
2384
02:05:08,500 --> 02:05:12,100
- Calm down.
- I'm okay. ( Sniffling )
2385
02:05:12,100 --> 02:05:15,433
- Stop crying.
- Computer voice: You have
exceeded your time limit.
2386
02:05:15,433 --> 02:05:17,900
- I'm not crying.
- Man: This call is
being terminated.
2387
02:05:17,900 --> 02:05:20,834
- Woman's voice:
Your call is terminated.
- ( Dial tone )
2388
02:05:28,767 --> 02:05:30,433
Byers:
Now that I live alone,
2389
02:05:30,433 --> 02:05:34,300
I have a lot
of time on my hands
for my own demise
2390
02:05:34,300 --> 02:05:36,467
or for my own
well-being,
2391
02:05:36,467 --> 02:05:38,467
whichever I so choose.
2392
02:05:38,467 --> 02:05:41,600
I so choose for my welfare
and my well-being
2393
02:05:41,600 --> 02:05:43,400
rather than my demise.
2394
02:05:43,400 --> 02:05:46,000
You might wonder
what do I do with
all my spare time.
2395
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:49,300
Well, I still
enjoy singing.
2396
02:05:49,300 --> 02:05:51,867
And I took several songs
and put 'em together,
2397
02:05:51,867 --> 02:05:54,700
went to a studio here
in the town I live in
2398
02:05:54,700 --> 02:05:57,633
and I recorded a song
that meant a lot to me
2399
02:05:57,633 --> 02:06:00,934
and has been
a great blessing
of faith and hope,
2400
02:06:00,934 --> 02:06:03,200
that has helped me
through every day.
2401
02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:05,667
And there's not a day go by
that I don't listen to it
2402
02:06:05,667 --> 02:06:08,333
or sing it or at least try
to remember part of it.
2403
02:06:08,333 --> 02:06:09,934
And if you'd like,
2404
02:06:09,934 --> 02:06:13,800
I'll sing a little
of this song for you today.
2405
02:06:21,133 --> 02:06:25,300
- This came
after hours of work...
- ( Music playing )
2406
02:06:25,300 --> 02:06:27,600
...and $45.
2407
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,367
And you can have
anything made.
2408
02:06:37,500 --> 02:06:42,900
♪ Amazing grace ♪
2409
02:06:42,900 --> 02:06:46,367
♪ shall always be ♪
2410
02:06:46,367 --> 02:06:51,433
♪ my song of praise ♪
2411
02:06:51,433 --> 02:06:57,133
♪ for it was grace ♪
2412
02:06:57,133 --> 02:07:05,633
♪ that bought
my Liberty ♪
2413
02:07:05,633 --> 02:07:11,333
♪ I do not know ♪
2414
02:07:11,333 --> 02:07:14,867
♪ just why he came ♪
2415
02:07:14,867 --> 02:07:20,000
♪ to love me so ♪
2416
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:25,834
♪ he looked beyond ♪
2417
02:07:25,834 --> 02:07:27,834
♪ my fault ♪
2418
02:07:27,834 --> 02:07:34,700
♪ and saw my needs ♪
2419
02:07:34,700 --> 02:07:41,633
♪ I shall forever lift ♪
2420
02:07:41,633 --> 02:07:48,700
♪ my eyes to Calvary ♪
2421
02:07:48,700 --> 02:07:53,967
♪ to view the cross ♪
2422
02:07:53,967 --> 02:08:02,300
♪ where Jesus died for me ♪
2423
02:08:02,300 --> 02:08:09,500
♪ I'm on the last terrain ♪
2424
02:08:09,500 --> 02:08:16,900
♪ that caught
my falling soul ♪
2425
02:08:16,900 --> 02:08:21,834
♪ he looked beyond ♪
2426
02:08:21,834 --> 02:08:30,066
♪ my fault
and saw my need ♪
2427
02:08:31,066 --> 02:08:36,266
♪ he looked beyond ♪
2428
02:08:36,266 --> 02:08:38,467
♪ my fault ♪
2429
02:08:38,467 --> 02:08:46,367
♪ and saw my need... ♪
2430
02:08:50,433 --> 02:08:53,600
- ( Clears throat )
- ( Music ends )
2431
02:09:26,467 --> 02:09:29,266
Every new little piece
of information
2432
02:09:29,266 --> 02:09:32,467
that surfaces
with this case
points away
2433
02:09:32,467 --> 02:09:35,600
from the three guys
who are currently serving
prison sentences.
2434
02:09:35,600 --> 02:09:37,533
And one of 'em's
on death row.
2435
02:09:44,367 --> 02:09:47,533
If the three defendants
ever got out,
2436
02:09:47,533 --> 02:09:49,967
uh, and were released
2437
02:09:49,967 --> 02:09:52,033
I would be sick.
2438
02:09:55,900 --> 02:09:59,233
I wasn't convinced
from the evidence
2439
02:09:59,233 --> 02:10:01,567
that it was
a bite Mark.
2440
02:10:01,567 --> 02:10:03,600
And so ruled.
2441
02:10:07,500 --> 02:10:10,567
The west Memphis police
are never going to admit
they botched this up.
2442
02:10:10,567 --> 02:10:13,133
They're not ever gonna admit
that they got the wrong people.
2443
02:10:17,033 --> 02:10:20,333
I'll watch you,
you bastard, Damien echols,
2444
02:10:20,333 --> 02:10:24,133
take your last breath,
you lowlife son of a bitch.
2445
02:10:28,066 --> 02:10:31,000
If I were released today,
2446
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:34,166
I would kind of want
to just blend into obscurity.
2447
02:10:34,166 --> 02:10:36,200
I wouldn't want
to be remembered.
2448
02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:39,133
You know, I wouldn't want
to walk down the street
and have someone say,
2449
02:10:39,133 --> 02:10:41,867
"hey, you're that kid
that was on death row
2450
02:10:41,867 --> 02:10:43,934
that they made
that documentary about."
2451
02:10:43,934 --> 02:10:46,100
( Music playing )
206164
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.