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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:02:10,665 --> 00:02:13,566 Shake this square world and blast off for Kicksville. 2 00:02:14,268 --> 00:02:17,103 America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. 3 00:02:18,506 --> 00:02:20,406 Just say "No". 4 00:02:20,441 --> 00:02:22,441 The mafia is a major player in the international 5 00:02:22,477 --> 00:02:23,943 drug underworld. 6 00:02:24,545 --> 00:02:26,746 At the end of the day, it's all about the dollar. 7 00:02:26,781 --> 00:02:28,514 It's all about the dollar. 8 00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:30,983 American people want the mob and its associates 9 00:02:31,019 --> 00:02:33,352 brought to justice and their power broken. 10 00:02:34,122 --> 00:02:36,489 There's now an understanding that the war on 11 00:02:36,524 --> 00:02:38,357 drugs was an abject failure. 12 00:02:38,393 --> 00:02:40,159 You have to stop and ask yourself, 13 00:02:40,194 --> 00:02:42,094 "How did we get here?" 14 00:02:43,518 --> 00:02:49,718 ~subtitles ripped and corrected by~ Rapunzel@addic7ed.com 15 00:02:59,847 --> 00:03:03,115 The first time I took ecstasy was in Manchester, 16 00:03:05,052 --> 00:03:05,968 thinking, what is this? 17 00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:08,020 This is pretty boring. 18 00:03:08,055 --> 00:03:10,656 Then, all of a sudden, my knees just completely buckled, 19 00:03:12,726 --> 00:03:14,893 and time just started to stand still. 20 00:03:18,933 --> 00:03:20,499 Woo! 21 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:24,736 The whole room is just throbbing, 22 00:03:24,772 --> 00:03:26,672 and everybody is dancing and the music's 23 00:03:26,707 --> 00:03:29,208 just pulsing into my head. 24 00:03:29,243 --> 00:03:32,844 All these beeps and weird noises, 25 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,214 like signals from outer space that I didn't understand are 26 00:03:35,249 --> 00:03:37,282 now completely making sense. 27 00:03:40,321 --> 00:03:42,654 I never wanted the party to end after that night. 28 00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:44,756 Raving became my religion. 29 00:03:45,226 --> 00:03:46,425 I'm Shawn Attwood, 30 00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:48,126 known as one of the biggest ecstasy traffickers 31 00:03:48,162 --> 00:03:49,895 in the US rave scene. 32 00:03:50,531 --> 00:03:52,364 My local nickname was English Shaun. 33 00:03:52,399 --> 00:03:57,352 I was up against one of the Cosa Nostra's most notorious killers. 34 00:04:07,481 --> 00:04:11,416 As a young person, I set a goal to be a millionaire by age 30. 35 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,721 "Greed is good" was my mantra. 36 00:04:16,257 --> 00:04:21,360 I flew out to Arizona because it had dazzled me as a teenager. 37 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,868 The plane comes in, and you're looking out the window, 38 00:04:29,903 --> 00:04:32,404 and you're seeing all these swimming pools in people's backyards. 39 00:04:33,507 --> 00:04:35,307 The sun's always shining. 40 00:04:35,342 --> 00:04:38,744 It's almost 50 degrees in the summer and, 41 00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:40,178 as soon as they hear the english accent, 42 00:04:40,214 --> 00:04:42,047 they roll out the red carpet. 43 00:04:43,484 --> 00:04:47,836 But the rave scene was barely starting. 44 00:04:47,888 --> 00:04:50,022 They didn't even know what ecstasy was, 45 00:04:50,057 --> 00:04:52,324 so there was this huge gap in the market. 46 00:05:00,934 --> 00:05:02,467 When I threw my first rave, 47 00:05:02,503 --> 00:05:06,171 looking down at all the ravers just going off, 48 00:05:07,374 --> 00:05:09,941 with the strobe lights pulsing, 49 00:05:09,977 --> 00:05:12,577 I knew that this was my calling in life. 50 00:05:15,816 --> 00:05:18,617 It's quarter to six in the morning. 51 00:05:20,204 --> 00:05:21,920 As an experiment, 52 00:05:21,955 --> 00:05:24,423 I decided to order 1,000 pills out of LA. 53 00:05:25,926 --> 00:05:28,443 All this stuff goes in one weekend. 54 00:05:30,097 --> 00:05:33,298 I've made thousands of dollars, just like that. 55 00:05:33,334 --> 00:05:35,367 Partying my ass off. 56 00:05:35,402 --> 00:05:39,504 And that was when I decided to go full time trafficking. 57 00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:52,017 One thing about my father, he is a businessman, 58 00:05:52,052 --> 00:05:53,819 outside of being a gangster. 59 00:05:53,854 --> 00:05:55,654 Some people call it a racketeer, whatever, 60 00:05:55,689 --> 00:05:58,056 I say he was a businessman because he knew business. 61 00:05:58,359 --> 00:06:00,425 He's gonna make money. 62 00:06:01,362 --> 00:06:02,961 My name's Karen Gravano. 63 00:06:02,996 --> 00:06:05,964 I'm the daughter of Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano. 64 00:06:07,167 --> 00:06:10,535 He was the under boss of the Gambino organized crime family, 65 00:06:11,305 --> 00:06:13,271 which was the most powerful organized crime family 66 00:06:13,307 --> 00:06:15,073 in New York City. 67 00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:30,756 Gravano was a mean, vicious, horrible person. 68 00:06:32,693 --> 00:06:34,659 Better known as "Sammy the Bull", 69 00:06:34,695 --> 00:06:37,529 a man who pleaded guilty to 19 murders. 70 00:06:46,707 --> 00:06:49,241 My father was released from prison in 1995. 71 00:06:49,276 --> 00:06:52,611 The FBI wanted him to go into witness protection, 72 00:06:52,646 --> 00:06:53,879 so he agreed. 73 00:06:54,214 --> 00:06:56,047 He went into the program. 74 00:06:57,818 --> 00:06:59,785 Being a cooperator, and then, 75 00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:01,253 the witness protection program, 76 00:07:01,288 --> 00:07:03,188 and walking away from the mafia life, 77 00:07:03,223 --> 00:07:06,091 very few of them can succeed at it. 78 00:07:06,126 --> 00:07:09,094 It is an enormously difficult task. 79 00:07:11,398 --> 00:07:13,432 There's so many restrictions. 80 00:07:13,467 --> 00:07:16,968 He wasn't able to talk to us because we didn't go in the program, 81 00:07:19,706 --> 00:07:21,940 so he signed himself out, 82 00:07:21,975 --> 00:07:24,643 and he joined my mother and my brother in Arizona. 83 00:07:31,285 --> 00:07:33,285 My fathers main thing was construction. 84 00:07:34,455 --> 00:07:36,421 He loved construction. 85 00:07:37,357 --> 00:07:40,025 He started a company called Marathon Development, 86 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:41,493 which, in New York, 87 00:07:41,528 --> 00:07:44,396 he actually had Marathon Concrete. 88 00:07:44,998 --> 00:07:48,333 He was in the office every day trying to build this company from the ground up, 89 00:07:50,504 --> 00:07:53,538 legitimately creating a business. 90 00:07:54,441 --> 00:07:56,441 He wasn't "Sammy the Bull" anymore. 91 00:07:56,477 --> 00:07:59,044 He wasn't Salvatore Gravano, he was Jimmy Moran. 92 00:07:59,613 --> 00:08:02,881 That was the identity the government gave him. 93 00:08:17,698 --> 00:08:21,166 Ecstasy was going for $25 to $30 a pill. 94 00:08:21,735 --> 00:08:24,636 I started to source them from Holland for $2 or $3 a pill. 95 00:08:26,306 --> 00:08:28,373 My smugglers would bring them over and they went 96 00:08:28,408 --> 00:08:33,578 from Holland to France to Mexico City to Hermosillo, 97 00:08:35,082 --> 00:08:36,615 and over the border into Arizona. 98 00:08:38,485 --> 00:08:41,019 The most anyone ever brought on one of those missions 99 00:08:41,054 --> 00:08:42,954 was 40,000 pills. 100 00:08:51,198 --> 00:08:55,166 By 1999 we were a multi-million-dollar 101 00:08:55,202 --> 00:08:58,336 international ecstasy smuggling ring. 102 00:09:00,357 --> 00:09:02,374 Use of the designer drug, ecstasy, 103 00:09:02,409 --> 00:09:04,025 is rising at an alarming rate. 104 00:09:05,012 --> 00:09:09,915 By 1999 seizures increased 300% to three million. 105 00:09:10,884 --> 00:09:14,152 Ecstasy never carried that dirty social stigma that 106 00:09:14,187 --> 00:09:16,621 methamphetamine did, or heroin did, or cocaine did. 107 00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:19,457 So, the younger generation thought it was ok 108 00:09:19,493 --> 00:09:21,026 to be taking it. 109 00:09:21,328 --> 00:09:22,961 And why not just go a club and, you know, 110 00:09:22,996 --> 00:09:24,195 be messed up? 111 00:09:24,665 --> 00:09:25,864 How old are you? 112 00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:27,465 16. 113 00:09:28,001 --> 00:09:29,801 Next thing you know, little Johnny's not coming 114 00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:32,737 home 'til the sun's coming up. 115 00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:37,576 There were times when they'd start on a Friday night, 116 00:09:37,611 --> 00:09:39,244 and they'd go through Sunday. 117 00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:44,449 Do you know where your teenagers are? 118 00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:46,451 This could be the night your child ventures into a 119 00:09:46,486 --> 00:09:48,687 secretive and, potentially, dangerous world. 120 00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:51,706 The world of the rave. 121 00:09:52,626 --> 00:09:54,125 All of a sudden, we start fielding calls of 122 00:09:54,161 --> 00:09:56,394 complaints from middle class families. 123 00:09:58,298 --> 00:10:00,966 There is reason to be concerned. 124 00:10:01,435 --> 00:10:04,736 Even one pill of ecstasy can cause dehydration, 125 00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:06,571 anxiety and exhaustion. 126 00:10:15,983 --> 00:10:17,882 When my lieutenant asked for volunteers, 127 00:10:17,918 --> 00:10:20,285 there wasn't one supervisor that wanted to volunteer for 128 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,687 that mission because it wasn't one of them 129 00:10:22,723 --> 00:10:24,089 sexy things to do. 130 00:10:25,692 --> 00:10:28,360 We're doing cocaine, heroin, meth, marijuana. 131 00:10:30,197 --> 00:10:31,963 I'm sergeant Jim Cope, 132 00:10:31,999 --> 00:10:34,399 from the Phoenix police department. 133 00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:37,702 I was the junior drug enforcement sergeant at the time, 134 00:10:38,038 --> 00:10:40,405 so I got assigned the job. 135 00:10:42,643 --> 00:10:45,477 I drafted Rich Lebel. 136 00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:48,980 He was our lead undercover in the whole operation. 137 00:10:51,385 --> 00:10:54,986 At the time, the spiked-up hair with the bleached tips were in, 138 00:10:55,022 --> 00:10:57,122 so we had him spike his hair. 139 00:10:59,126 --> 00:11:00,925 We developed the strategy to go in the raves and 140 00:11:00,961 --> 00:11:02,961 actually make undercover purchases at the raves. 141 00:11:08,635 --> 00:11:09,934 You have to dress the part, 142 00:11:09,970 --> 00:11:12,237 and it's certainly not stuff I would wear on a daily basis. 143 00:11:14,624 --> 00:11:17,108 You walk inside and, right away, 144 00:11:17,144 --> 00:11:20,345 the music makes your insides vibrate because it's so loud, 145 00:11:21,348 --> 00:11:23,848 and it's thumping over and over and over, 146 00:11:23,884 --> 00:11:25,984 with strobe lights and lights flashing. 147 00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:29,004 It's all, sort of, hypnotic. 148 00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:37,295 The vibe was peace, love, unity and respect. 149 00:11:41,168 --> 00:11:42,667 There was no violence. 150 00:11:42,703 --> 00:11:45,704 There was no Scarface level activity. 151 00:11:51,945 --> 00:11:55,080 Once you were inside, they were super trusting. 152 00:11:56,616 --> 00:11:58,783 Somebody would walk by you, and they'd ask you, 153 00:11:58,819 --> 00:12:01,286 "Hey, do you need any E?" 154 00:12:01,321 --> 00:12:03,488 And we would just be making buys. 155 00:12:11,681 --> 00:12:14,866 All of a sudden, I received mass reports of 156 00:12:14,885 --> 00:12:18,403 these guys that stood out selling ecstasy. 157 00:12:20,574 --> 00:12:26,878 These were big, steroid head characters in shiny polyester shirts. 158 00:12:29,783 --> 00:12:31,716 I'm wondering, who the hell are these guys? 159 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:39,424 They wanted to have a meeting with me. 160 00:12:40,494 --> 00:12:43,261 So, I sit down between these two guys. 161 00:12:43,296 --> 00:12:45,897 The friendlier one, he says, 162 00:12:45,932 --> 00:12:48,833 "English Shaun, why don't you start moving some of our pills?" 163 00:12:49,236 --> 00:12:51,903 and I say, "Look, I've got a good reputation. 164 00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:54,239 Why would we wanna be getting your stuff?" 165 00:12:54,741 --> 00:12:57,308 Then the big guy just jumps up off the sofa and says, 166 00:12:57,344 --> 00:13:01,179 "Who the **** are you disrespecting our pills." 167 00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:06,217 He throws out this name, Jimmy Moran, 168 00:13:09,022 --> 00:13:11,823 and I'm not familiar with that name, and then, 169 00:13:11,858 --> 00:13:13,525 he follows it up with, 170 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,927 "One call to 'Sammy the Bull' and we can 171 00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:18,163 have you taken out to the desert." 172 00:13:19,766 --> 00:13:21,432 Now, that stopped me in my tracks, 173 00:13:21,468 --> 00:13:23,735 because I've seen John Gotti 174 00:13:23,770 --> 00:13:26,371 and "Sammy the Bull" Gravano on the news. 175 00:13:27,908 --> 00:13:31,376 These guys are the Gambino crime family. 176 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,906 I went to dinner with my father. 177 00:13:44,941 --> 00:13:47,842 I wanted to sit down and know all the things 178 00:13:47,878 --> 00:13:50,912 that I never asked before when I was kid. 179 00:13:52,983 --> 00:13:55,783 I didn't want him to be my father and try to protect me. 180 00:13:55,819 --> 00:13:58,953 I wanted him to tell me the truth and, 181 00:13:58,989 --> 00:14:00,555 for the first time in my life, like, 182 00:14:00,590 --> 00:14:03,658 my father started telling me about the mob, and, you know, 183 00:14:03,693 --> 00:14:05,627 about the things that he did. 184 00:14:06,596 --> 00:14:09,397 You know, my father was accused of 19 murders. 185 00:14:11,268 --> 00:14:13,968 I wanted to know, like, did you kill someone? 186 00:14:15,305 --> 00:14:17,172 What was is like? 187 00:14:17,807 --> 00:14:19,974 He looked me in the face and was, like, 188 00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:23,144 "It was, honestly, a rush. 189 00:14:25,015 --> 00:14:28,616 It was like an adrenalin rush, to be able to take another life." 190 00:14:30,053 --> 00:14:32,687 Um, I didn't expect him to say that. 191 00:14:48,838 --> 00:14:51,906 I was probably a little bit shocked that he got the five. 192 00:14:51,942 --> 00:14:54,275 19 murders, five years. 193 00:14:56,613 --> 00:14:59,414 How can anybody confess to that many murders and then do 194 00:14:59,449 --> 00:15:01,216 five years in prison? 195 00:15:07,591 --> 00:15:10,225 I think it's clear that "Sammy the Bull" is a marked man. 196 00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:13,228 There are mob members that would love to kill him. 197 00:15:13,263 --> 00:15:15,496 There are wannabees that would love to kill him just 198 00:15:15,532 --> 00:15:17,365 to add to their reputation. 199 00:15:19,302 --> 00:15:23,104 He's basically thrown all the rules out the window. 200 00:15:23,139 --> 00:15:25,707 But the biggest one is being omert�, right? 201 00:15:25,742 --> 00:15:28,910 He's destroyed the oath of secrecy. 202 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:32,547 "Sammy the Bull" is now "Sammy the Rat". 203 00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:39,487 He's still working with us on cases and information. 204 00:15:41,458 --> 00:15:43,858 It was in my best interest, as the government, 205 00:15:43,893 --> 00:15:47,528 to make sure that this guy survived and played by the rules. 206 00:15:58,208 --> 00:16:01,376 With this new breed of ecstasy dealers infiltrating my raves, 207 00:16:02,479 --> 00:16:05,546 there was this change in the atmosphere at the party. 208 00:16:07,584 --> 00:16:10,785 Pills were cut with all kinds of toxic substances. 209 00:16:11,221 --> 00:16:12,954 People were tripping. 210 00:16:12,989 --> 00:16:15,323 People felt like they were on crystal meth. 211 00:16:15,358 --> 00:16:17,392 All kinds of bad reports were coming in, 212 00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:22,730 and violent episodes occurred. 213 00:16:26,703 --> 00:16:30,505 When my top ecstasy salesperson got his teeth smashed out, 214 00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:33,741 in the back of my mind then, I'm thinking 215 00:16:33,777 --> 00:16:36,344 these guys wanna take me out to the desert. 216 00:16:38,948 --> 00:16:40,948 Sammy the Bull. 217 00:16:40,984 --> 00:16:42,684 You can't mess around with people who've got 218 00:16:42,719 --> 00:16:44,819 that lethal reputation. 219 00:16:47,657 --> 00:16:51,159 I got so scared I moved over 100 miles to Tucson, Arizona, 220 00:16:51,194 --> 00:16:54,062 to live in a gated, guarded community. 221 00:17:11,948 --> 00:17:16,017 When Rich Lebel was up to 250 to 500 pill buys, 222 00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:18,419 the suspects we were dealing with said, 223 00:17:18,455 --> 00:17:21,322 "Hey, if you guys are gonna be players in this market, 224 00:17:21,358 --> 00:17:24,258 you'd better be careful because the New York guys are running everything, 225 00:17:24,928 --> 00:17:27,261 and you're gonna have to pay tax on your pills to them." 226 00:17:34,137 --> 00:17:35,470 Rich is from the east coast, 227 00:17:35,505 --> 00:17:37,372 and I'm from the east coast, and we were both, like, 228 00:17:37,407 --> 00:17:38,773 New York guys. 229 00:17:38,808 --> 00:17:40,575 You know, we're in Arizona, whatever. 230 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:42,610 We didn't take it serious at all. 231 00:17:44,314 --> 00:17:47,081 You gotta realize, at the time, The Sopranos was in. 232 00:17:47,117 --> 00:17:49,717 They were all striving to be some young gangster, you know? 233 00:17:49,753 --> 00:17:51,919 Some mobster. 234 00:17:51,955 --> 00:17:54,088 These are just kids talking. 235 00:18:11,141 --> 00:18:13,508 I got a tip that "Sammy the Bull" Gravano was 236 00:18:13,543 --> 00:18:16,978 hanging out in Arizona under the assumed name of Jimmy Moran. 237 00:18:18,748 --> 00:18:23,518 Um, I wasn't sure exactly how to go about this. 238 00:18:24,254 --> 00:18:26,554 It's not like you got out and interview Mafia hit men 239 00:18:26,589 --> 00:18:28,289 all the time. 240 00:18:28,892 --> 00:18:31,959 I found that he had a construction company. 241 00:18:31,995 --> 00:18:35,163 I drove around Marathon Development, like, 242 00:18:35,198 --> 00:18:38,833 two or three times thinking, what am I gonna do here? 243 00:18:38,868 --> 00:18:42,003 It was in a big warehouse district of Phoenix. 244 00:18:42,038 --> 00:18:44,739 Kind of, a junkie area, and it had a little foyer, 245 00:18:44,774 --> 00:18:46,174 and there was a little bell there, 246 00:18:46,209 --> 00:18:47,575 and there was nobody upfront 247 00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:49,377 at the front desk so I rang the bell. 248 00:18:54,617 --> 00:18:56,984 And, out of the office walks "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, 249 00:18:57,620 --> 00:19:01,122 and he walked straight up to me, 250 00:19:01,157 --> 00:19:04,091 and he had these shark-like eyes and he said, 251 00:19:05,662 --> 00:19:07,728 "What the **** do you want?" 252 00:19:08,698 --> 00:19:10,932 And, I said, "Mr. Gravano, 253 00:19:10,967 --> 00:19:13,601 I wanna interview you", and he kept saying, 254 00:19:13,636 --> 00:19:17,004 "You don't know anything about me", and I said, 255 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,409 "Well, I know that you're responsible for something like 18 homicides", 256 00:19:22,212 --> 00:19:25,746 and he says, "Get your **** facts straight. 257 00:19:25,782 --> 00:19:27,482 It's 19." 258 00:19:27,517 --> 00:19:30,618 And that just blew me away. 259 00:19:31,988 --> 00:19:35,256 He said, "If you do this story, 260 00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:39,126 people are gonna get killed. It's not a good idea." 261 00:19:48,999 --> 00:19:50,999 My father just came home from prison. 262 00:19:51,224 --> 00:19:53,891 My mother and brother bought a restaurant. 263 00:19:54,894 --> 00:19:57,195 Everyone always thinks that we picked the name "Uncle Sal" 264 00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:59,063 as the best kept secret in Scottsdale. 265 00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:01,165 When they bought the restaurant, 266 00:20:01,201 --> 00:20:02,967 it was already called "Uncle Sal's". 267 00:20:03,002 --> 00:20:04,769 I mean, yes, we laughed about it, and it was, like, 268 00:20:04,804 --> 00:20:06,938 Salvatore Gravano, "Uncle Sal's". 269 00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:10,808 It's ours. We're taking it. 270 00:20:11,377 --> 00:20:16,647 We joke at home, but I think my mother's the real gangster here. 271 00:20:18,585 --> 00:20:20,685 My mother's name's Debbie. 272 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,870 She came to Arizona with all the money. 273 00:20:23,223 --> 00:20:25,156 So she financed things, whether it was the restaurant, 274 00:20:25,191 --> 00:20:26,824 or whatever it was. 275 00:20:26,859 --> 00:20:30,027 My brother, Gerard, he was a chef working in the restaurant. 276 00:20:32,432 --> 00:20:35,733 I'd just had my daughter, and my brother had a son, 277 00:20:35,768 --> 00:20:36,934 and we were doing good. 278 00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:40,004 We were working hard, we were staying out of trouble, 279 00:20:40,373 --> 00:20:41,906 and we were just really, 280 00:20:41,941 --> 00:20:43,708 honestly building our family back up. 281 00:20:57,991 --> 00:21:00,258 Word came back to me that a reporter by the name of 282 00:21:00,293 --> 00:21:02,793 Dennis Wagner was gonna write a story and we 283 00:21:02,829 --> 00:21:04,328 wanted to stop it. 284 00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:08,833 My publisher was on a cruise in the Caribbean 285 00:21:08,868 --> 00:21:15,106 and a shore to ship call was made by the FBI trying to convince my 286 00:21:15,141 --> 00:21:16,641 publisher not to run the story. 287 00:21:18,911 --> 00:21:21,712 You print this story and expose this guy, 288 00:21:21,748 --> 00:21:23,481 all you're gonna do is get him killed. 289 00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:27,818 The story's not as important as you think it is. 290 00:21:27,854 --> 00:21:29,620 This guy's life is. 291 00:21:42,869 --> 00:21:44,969 It was picked up by media all over the world. 292 00:21:46,973 --> 00:21:49,173 It was, kind of, an explosion in that sense. 293 00:21:59,285 --> 00:22:01,686 We knew the Gambino family were actively trying to 294 00:22:01,721 --> 00:22:07,224 figure out where he was and how to set up on him, and now, 295 00:22:07,527 --> 00:22:08,793 all of a sudden, 296 00:22:08,828 --> 00:22:11,529 they were able to start tracking him down. 297 00:22:13,566 --> 00:22:15,316 Once that newspaper article came out, 298 00:22:15,368 --> 00:22:17,501 it made everyone start looking at us. 299 00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:23,407 That was actually the start of everything going bad for my 300 00:22:23,443 --> 00:22:25,710 family in Arizona. 301 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:30,948 All the kids that were, you knew, mob groupies, 302 00:22:30,983 --> 00:22:32,383 or whatever you wanna call them, 303 00:22:32,418 --> 00:22:34,051 infatuated with that lifestyle. 304 00:22:34,087 --> 00:22:35,252 "Oh, Sammy the Bull's here." 305 00:22:35,288 --> 00:22:37,588 "Oh, his family owns this restaurant." 306 00:22:38,825 --> 00:22:42,426 And that's what drew the attention of the wrong people. 307 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,167 My brother was working in the restaurant. 308 00:22:51,003 --> 00:22:54,305 This guy came in, and he threw $1,000 on the table, 309 00:22:56,409 --> 00:22:58,476 and he told Gerard, "Here, put this in your pocket. 310 00:22:58,511 --> 00:22:59,910 Come out with us tonight. 311 00:22:59,946 --> 00:23:00,978 We're gonna go to the clubs. 312 00:23:01,013 --> 00:23:03,314 Everything is on me, and, by the way, 313 00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,383 I love your father." 314 00:23:06,252 --> 00:23:08,619 So, that's how Mike Papa comes into the whole picture. 315 00:23:09,989 --> 00:23:11,856 That's how this whole ecstasy thing started. 316 00:23:16,562 --> 00:23:18,329 Mike Papa was a sharp kid. 317 00:23:18,364 --> 00:23:19,597 He dressed nice. 318 00:23:19,632 --> 00:23:21,732 He was a good-looking kid. He knew how to talk. 319 00:23:21,768 --> 00:23:23,701 He had the New York hustle, 320 00:23:23,736 --> 00:23:25,870 because he was originally from New York. 321 00:23:35,782 --> 00:23:38,449 So, Gerard, building his friendship with Mike Papa, 322 00:23:38,484 --> 00:23:40,751 started going to clubs with him. 323 00:23:40,787 --> 00:23:42,820 Gerard started seeing that this guy's, you know, 324 00:23:42,855 --> 00:23:44,989 he's selling pills, he's selling ecstasy. 325 00:23:47,243 --> 00:23:50,861 Mike Papa was a big, big person in that rave scene. 326 00:24:06,179 --> 00:24:08,412 As our investigation was progressing, 327 00:24:08,881 --> 00:24:11,015 we kept hearing the rumors about the New York guys. 328 00:24:12,652 --> 00:24:16,620 I was at the gym working out, an acquaintance of mine said, 329 00:24:16,923 --> 00:24:20,391 "Hey, do you know anything about some kind of crazy club drug or...", 330 00:24:20,426 --> 00:24:21,859 he called it a "sex drug". 331 00:24:22,728 --> 00:24:24,328 He goes, "All these young kids are, at the gym, 332 00:24:24,363 --> 00:24:27,331 bragging about how much money they're making off these pills", 333 00:24:28,801 --> 00:24:31,635 And he named Mike Papa, and he goes, 334 00:24:31,671 --> 00:24:34,305 "You're not gonna believe it, they say they're being backed 335 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:36,340 by 'Sammy the Bull' Gravano." 336 00:24:43,149 --> 00:24:44,815 When I first started hearing about the 337 00:24:44,851 --> 00:24:46,884 Gravano name being involved in the ecstasy scene, 338 00:24:46,919 --> 00:24:48,352 you know, I said to myself, 339 00:24:48,387 --> 00:24:50,387 Sammy would be crazy to get involved in any of this stuff. 340 00:24:59,899 --> 00:25:02,066 I think we have something here. 341 00:25:02,468 --> 00:25:04,702 But I've already had to convince everybody, hey, 342 00:25:04,737 --> 00:25:07,204 there's something to this with this drug ecstasy, 343 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,405 you know, and now, 344 00:25:08,441 --> 00:25:10,574 I'm gonna say, "I think 'Sammy the Bull' Gravano, 345 00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:13,444 a legendary mafia hit man is also involved." 346 00:25:14,747 --> 00:25:16,647 People would think I was crazy. 347 00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:21,051 Mike Papa started to come into the restaurant and 348 00:25:21,087 --> 00:25:22,820 my father finally met him. 349 00:25:23,256 --> 00:25:25,356 My father was, you know, "Who is this guy?" 350 00:25:25,391 --> 00:25:28,325 He wasn't introduced to my father as, 351 00:25:28,361 --> 00:25:30,494 "Oh, this is our drug dealing friend, Mike Papa, 352 00:25:31,063 --> 00:25:33,130 who sells ecstasy at raves." 353 00:25:33,165 --> 00:25:35,266 It's, like, "This is our friend Mike. 354 00:25:35,301 --> 00:25:37,668 He goes to ASU. He's a college student. 355 00:25:37,703 --> 00:25:39,570 He's from New York." 356 00:25:41,407 --> 00:25:43,641 My father was anti-drug, 357 00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:48,879 and so adamant about Gerard and I having the straight and narrow path, 358 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,918 building a life that is unbreakable. 359 00:25:56,255 --> 00:25:59,456 But, unfortunately, we **** up. 360 00:26:11,020 --> 00:26:13,988 We see ecstasy coming from Canada. 361 00:26:14,290 --> 00:26:16,657 Unfortunately, the ecstasy and molly, 362 00:26:16,692 --> 00:26:18,726 it's actually caused death, here in Detroit. 363 00:26:30,172 --> 00:26:32,439 Any time where there's drugs involved, 364 00:26:32,475 --> 00:26:34,275 you know, you're dealing with a lot of money. 365 00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:36,176 People tend to use guns. 366 00:26:42,685 --> 00:26:44,818 The DJs are selling the dope and it's coming 367 00:26:44,854 --> 00:26:47,488 out of the bathroom too. 368 00:26:57,566 --> 00:26:59,333 The door, the door. 369 00:27:02,872 --> 00:27:04,471 Search warrant, gotta go, gotta go. 370 00:27:04,507 --> 00:27:06,073 Move by the door, the door. 371 00:27:06,108 --> 00:27:07,541 Face down. Face down. 372 00:27:07,576 --> 00:27:09,677 Straighten your legs out. Straighten your legs out. 373 00:27:09,712 --> 00:27:11,145 Face down. Look at the floor. 374 00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:13,414 Don't be looking around. This ain't entertainment. 375 00:27:13,449 --> 00:27:15,549 Keep your hands where I can see them. 376 00:27:15,584 --> 00:27:16,784 Wanna get cuffed up? 377 00:27:16,819 --> 00:27:18,552 Look at the floor. 378 00:27:21,490 --> 00:27:22,790 You have any guns on you? 379 00:27:22,825 --> 00:27:24,591 No. 380 00:27:25,328 --> 00:27:27,628 Got a gun right here. 381 00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:29,863 It was loaded. I just cleared it. 382 00:27:29,899 --> 00:27:32,499 Put your hands on the floor. 383 00:27:32,535 --> 00:27:33,667 Crawl out now. 384 00:27:33,703 --> 00:27:34,935 Crawl backwards. Crawl backwards. 385 00:27:34,971 --> 00:27:36,704 Now, move. 386 00:27:37,273 --> 00:27:38,105 What do you have? 387 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:39,707 Coke in there. 388 00:27:39,742 --> 00:27:41,442 Tried dumping the coke. 389 00:27:41,477 --> 00:27:43,777 Toilet doesn't flush. It didn't work. 390 00:27:50,953 --> 00:27:54,288 Looks like a pretty good size piece of crystal meth. 391 00:27:54,623 --> 00:27:58,459 Ecstasy. Heroin. Crack cocaine. 392 00:28:00,663 --> 00:28:01,996 Good job, guys. 393 00:28:19,648 --> 00:28:22,383 As we were progressing and learning that, you know, 394 00:28:22,418 --> 00:28:24,752 there's a possibility that "Sammy the Bull" Gravano 395 00:28:24,787 --> 00:28:26,387 was involved, 396 00:28:26,422 --> 00:28:29,289 I knew we were gonna have to take it to another level, 397 00:28:29,325 --> 00:28:31,892 and I said, "You know, I'm gonna sit down with Ron." 398 00:28:34,864 --> 00:28:36,330 My name's Ron Sterrett, 399 00:28:36,365 --> 00:28:38,699 and I was the lead detective for the Phoenix police department 400 00:28:38,734 --> 00:28:41,101 in the Gravano ecstasy trafficking investigation. 401 00:28:44,507 --> 00:28:47,708 I didn't believe that Sammy would be associating with 402 00:28:47,743 --> 00:28:50,144 college kids selling drugs, quite honestly. 403 00:28:50,946 --> 00:28:53,147 I thought that was beneath his level. 404 00:28:55,384 --> 00:28:57,918 But, when we obtained Mike Papa's phone number, 405 00:28:57,953 --> 00:29:00,287 it was subscribed to Marathon Development. 406 00:29:01,824 --> 00:29:03,991 It, right away, hit me a business that Sammy 407 00:29:04,026 --> 00:29:06,226 ran back in New York was Marathon. 408 00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:11,698 So, the link was created. 409 00:29:11,967 --> 00:29:15,636 Mike Papa, who was involved in ecstasy trafficking worked for 410 00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:17,304 Sammy at Marathon Development. 411 00:29:37,293 --> 00:29:39,226 When it comes to the wire tap, 412 00:29:39,261 --> 00:29:42,362 we were going to go up, initially, on Mike Papa. 413 00:29:53,109 --> 00:29:56,443 He was horribly undisciplined on the phone and 414 00:29:56,912 --> 00:29:59,713 would talk at length about their drug trafficking activities. 415 00:30:03,152 --> 00:30:05,385 If the rumors were true that Sammy Gravano's involved, 416 00:30:06,622 --> 00:30:08,822 Mike Papa and Mike Papa's phone would walk us directly 417 00:30:08,858 --> 00:30:10,491 into that evidence. 418 00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:16,430 But, actually, the link was created 419 00:30:16,465 --> 00:30:18,365 to Gerard Gravano. 420 00:30:29,411 --> 00:30:32,179 When Gerard got involved in the ecstasy business, 421 00:30:32,214 --> 00:30:34,781 all of a sudden, it went from the Mike Papa 422 00:30:34,817 --> 00:30:37,050 investigation to the Gravano investigation, 423 00:30:39,088 --> 00:30:42,322 because they realized that this is "Sammy the Bull's" son. 424 00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:58,238 During our wiretap I kept seeing this light-colored 425 00:30:58,274 --> 00:31:00,073 Mercury Marquis out on surveillance. 426 00:31:03,979 --> 00:31:06,747 I would always come into the wire room and I'd say, 427 00:31:06,782 --> 00:31:09,550 "Hey, I think there's some other dudes out there following this guy", 428 00:31:10,352 --> 00:31:12,019 and, because of the shape of the car, I'm, like, 429 00:31:12,054 --> 00:31:13,954 "Maybe it's another cop?" 430 00:31:15,724 --> 00:31:17,791 My father started feeling like people were 431 00:31:17,826 --> 00:31:20,194 following him, and he said, 432 00:31:20,229 --> 00:31:22,462 "Listen, I don't know if it's the cops, 433 00:31:22,498 --> 00:31:23,897 if it's people from New York, 434 00:31:23,933 --> 00:31:25,966 but I feel like something is going on." 435 00:31:28,971 --> 00:31:30,437 Everybody told me I was crazy. 436 00:31:30,472 --> 00:31:32,673 There's nobody else, and I'm, like, "I keep seeing this car. 437 00:31:32,708 --> 00:31:34,341 Something's up with this car." 438 00:31:37,046 --> 00:31:39,513 The whole time Sammy was out in Arizona 439 00:31:39,548 --> 00:31:42,849 we knew Gotti had given the contract on Sammy. 440 00:31:45,054 --> 00:31:47,187 "He screwed us. You gotta go get him." 441 00:32:04,974 --> 00:32:07,674 During the wiretap the kids made constant 442 00:32:07,710 --> 00:32:09,109 reference to "The Big Guy". 443 00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:14,581 Every now and again somebody would slip and call him Sammy. 444 00:32:16,752 --> 00:32:19,319 They openly referred to Gravano, you know, 445 00:32:19,355 --> 00:32:22,389 when they were trying to feel important or show off to their friends. 446 00:32:36,939 --> 00:32:39,740 Mike Papa is talking about "'The big man' takes 50 cents," 447 00:32:40,676 --> 00:32:42,142 so he can't drop the price. 448 00:32:42,177 --> 00:32:43,310 That's Mike saying, 449 00:32:43,345 --> 00:32:44,711 "I'm not gonna drop my price", 450 00:32:44,747 --> 00:32:46,413 and using my father as leverage. 451 00:32:47,616 --> 00:32:49,583 "If you got a problem, go talk to 'Sammy the Bull'." 452 00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:57,157 We really believed Sammy's name was being thrown out by 453 00:32:57,192 --> 00:32:59,793 these younger kids as a point of intimidation. 454 00:33:02,531 --> 00:33:03,997 So, the speculation was always, 455 00:33:04,033 --> 00:33:05,966 are we gonna get to "Sammy the Bull" Gravano? 456 00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:24,768 In January of 2000, 457 00:33:24,803 --> 00:33:26,470 Ron Sterrett and the investigative team 458 00:33:26,505 --> 00:33:29,773 start intercepting calls between a supplier in 459 00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:31,391 California and Mike Papa. 460 00:33:37,516 --> 00:33:38,715 As those calls progressed, 461 00:33:38,751 --> 00:33:41,284 we realized a large shipment of 25,000 pills were 462 00:33:41,303 --> 00:33:43,520 gonna be coming in from LA. 463 00:33:50,596 --> 00:33:54,364 We knew exactly where the exchange of money 464 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,932 and pills was gonna take place. 465 00:33:59,605 --> 00:34:02,339 They met at a hamburger place real close to 466 00:34:02,374 --> 00:34:04,007 Arizona State University. 467 00:34:06,945 --> 00:34:09,980 We saw the bag of ecstasy coming into possession 468 00:34:10,015 --> 00:34:11,331 of Mike Papa. 469 00:34:15,854 --> 00:34:18,955 We followed Mike Papa directly back to Marathon Development, 470 00:34:20,592 --> 00:34:23,293 and saw Mike Papa carry the bag in. 471 00:34:44,049 --> 00:34:48,785 It was just amazing how fast those pills were gone. 472 00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:54,191 They were distributed in the Phoenix metropolitan area, 473 00:34:54,226 --> 00:34:56,960 and I don't think they lasted a week. 474 00:35:07,172 --> 00:35:08,839 It got frustrating because we weren't getting the 475 00:35:08,874 --> 00:35:10,874 confirmation that Sammy was involved with this 476 00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:12,876 ecstasy thing that the kids were doing. 477 00:35:18,083 --> 00:35:20,884 All of the ecstasy purchases were being done by Mike Papa. 478 00:35:22,721 --> 00:35:24,454 Gerard was right there. 479 00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:27,057 He was a distributor that was giving it to the other parties 480 00:35:27,092 --> 00:35:28,725 that were going out and selling the pills. 481 00:35:36,468 --> 00:35:38,301 The whole time I'm dealing with Sammy, 482 00:35:38,971 --> 00:35:41,771 there were no indications he was doing anything other than 483 00:35:41,807 --> 00:35:43,440 running his business, 484 00:35:43,475 --> 00:35:45,909 helping the family with the Italian restaurant, 485 00:35:45,944 --> 00:35:47,344 and trying to be legitimate. 486 00:35:48,147 --> 00:35:51,081 I had no doubt that that's what was going on with him. 487 00:36:33,525 --> 00:36:35,892 That call came in somewhere between 11:00 488 00:36:35,928 --> 00:36:37,694 in the evening to 1:00 in the morning. 489 00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:41,765 A normal business doesn't pay somebody at 11:00 in the 490 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,400 evening for a gas receipt. 491 00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:46,803 $70 for gas receipts, 492 00:36:47,439 --> 00:36:50,073 we knew that that was code for $70,000 493 00:36:50,108 --> 00:36:51,641 for the ecstasy. 494 00:36:54,713 --> 00:36:57,714 Gerard and Mike Papa needed to ask Sammy 495 00:36:58,984 --> 00:37:01,918 to front the $70,000 for the next shipment. 496 00:37:04,122 --> 00:37:07,357 That brought him right into the middle of the financing of 497 00:37:07,392 --> 00:37:09,159 the ecstasy organization. 498 00:37:11,964 --> 00:37:14,130 I can't believe Gravano was so stupid to be 499 00:37:14,166 --> 00:37:17,067 caught doing these types of things with these kids. 500 00:37:20,505 --> 00:37:22,606 The prosecutor came down to the wire room and 501 00:37:22,641 --> 00:37:24,107 listened to the phone call. 502 00:37:24,843 --> 00:37:26,643 Can she do it right away? 503 00:37:26,912 --> 00:37:28,812 And said, "We've got the evidence that I'm looking 504 00:37:28,847 --> 00:37:30,880 for to charge Sammy." 505 00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:32,716 Yeah, we got him. 506 00:37:32,751 --> 00:37:34,651 We got enough. We got enough for everybody. 507 00:37:34,686 --> 00:37:36,353 This whole group is done. 508 00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:49,432 We come to find out Gotti had sent a hit team down 509 00:37:49,468 --> 00:37:50,634 to Arizona. 510 00:37:54,106 --> 00:37:57,440 There was a plan to kill Sammy where Sammy parked his car. 511 00:37:59,878 --> 00:38:02,812 The individual was set up in a position across the street 512 00:38:02,848 --> 00:38:04,347 with a high-powered rifle. 513 00:38:09,187 --> 00:38:11,821 My father would have never laid down lightly. 514 00:38:13,225 --> 00:38:14,991 It's no secret that, at that particular time, 515 00:38:15,027 --> 00:38:16,493 he had guns. 516 00:38:17,763 --> 00:38:19,362 If some gun battle was going off, 517 00:38:19,398 --> 00:38:21,931 he's coming out shooting. 518 00:38:24,536 --> 00:38:27,771 Everybody was ready for whatever was gonna happen. 519 00:38:39,134 --> 00:38:40,900 There was probably 200 tactical officers at 520 00:38:40,936 --> 00:38:42,435 that meeting from different agencies. 521 00:38:44,006 --> 00:38:45,238 So, I have a lot of guys there. 522 00:38:45,273 --> 00:38:47,807 They're not real happy about being up so early. 523 00:38:47,843 --> 00:38:51,244 But the attention level on the room definitely heightened 524 00:38:51,279 --> 00:38:53,146 when we told them who was involved, 525 00:38:53,181 --> 00:38:54,681 and what the case was about. 526 00:39:09,231 --> 00:39:12,332 We wanted to use the cover of darkness to minimize 527 00:39:12,367 --> 00:39:15,802 any potential risk to the officers or Sammy getting 528 00:39:15,837 --> 00:39:17,203 involved in a shooting. 529 00:39:22,377 --> 00:39:23,643 When they made entry, 530 00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:25,845 Sammy was crawling on the floor toward getting a gun. 531 00:39:27,549 --> 00:39:31,251 I think he thought it was the mob coming after him. 532 00:39:33,155 --> 00:39:35,522 He surrendered, was handcuffed, 533 00:39:35,557 --> 00:39:39,059 and brought to the facility where I was waiting for him. 534 00:39:41,129 --> 00:39:42,829 He was a really sharp guy. 535 00:39:43,098 --> 00:39:46,066 I could tell he was scanning every document he could to try 536 00:39:46,101 --> 00:39:48,234 to figure out how bad it is and what's going on. 537 00:39:49,604 --> 00:39:51,938 I told him "You're being arrested for conspiracy 538 00:39:51,973 --> 00:39:53,673 to distribute dangerous drugs." 539 00:39:54,843 --> 00:39:57,677 And he just kinda leaned his head back and closed his eyes and sighed, 540 00:39:58,714 --> 00:40:01,047 like, "Jeez, I can't believe I got caught for this." 541 00:40:02,818 --> 00:40:05,685 But, quite honestly, we feel we saved Sammy's life by 542 00:40:05,721 --> 00:40:07,220 arresting him a few days before he was 543 00:40:07,255 --> 00:40:08,955 gonna get killed. 544 00:40:10,659 --> 00:40:13,226 He insisted he was a hard-working businessman, 545 00:40:13,261 --> 00:40:15,195 who had settled into his new law-abiding life. 546 00:40:16,364 --> 00:40:18,732 But a tiger doesn't change his stripes. 547 00:40:19,768 --> 00:40:21,668 And authorities say it was a family affair. 548 00:40:27,142 --> 00:40:28,675 I made mistakes. 549 00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:31,478 Did I know that there was ecstasy being sold? 550 00:40:31,813 --> 00:40:32,979 Yes. 551 00:40:33,014 --> 00:40:35,215 Was I involved in, maybe, some of the talks? 552 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:36,916 Yes. 553 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,587 Me and my brother, we **** up. 554 00:40:42,491 --> 00:40:43,690 The crime ring, allegedly, 555 00:40:43,725 --> 00:40:46,960 distributed up to 30,000 pills a week of the drug ecstasy. 556 00:40:49,397 --> 00:40:51,331 He beyond stabbed us in the back, 557 00:40:51,366 --> 00:40:52,966 it was betrayal. 558 00:40:53,001 --> 00:40:54,801 I mean, it was the stupidest thing he could do. 559 00:40:54,836 --> 00:40:57,370 It was the worst thing he could do. 560 00:40:58,073 --> 00:40:59,839 Nobody was gonna save him this time. 561 00:41:01,643 --> 00:41:03,977 The turncoat who sent so many mobsters to jail 562 00:41:04,012 --> 00:41:06,112 could soon be joining them. 563 00:41:08,016 --> 00:41:09,315 I was over at Mike Papa's residence 564 00:41:09,351 --> 00:41:10,984 when we arrested Mike. 565 00:41:11,019 --> 00:41:15,655 I thought Mike would be one of the ones who cooperated. 566 00:41:16,491 --> 00:41:19,459 He might just be the most famous snitch of all time, 567 00:41:19,494 --> 00:41:21,995 but now Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano 568 00:41:22,013 --> 00:41:23,963 has had the tables turned. 569 00:41:29,938 --> 00:41:31,938 That's the nature of drug dealing. 570 00:41:31,973 --> 00:41:33,773 People are always gonna be ratting people out and 571 00:41:33,809 --> 00:41:35,608 pointing fingers at one another. 572 00:41:37,279 --> 00:41:39,746 Once Mike Papa started cooperating with the government, 573 00:41:39,781 --> 00:41:41,714 they threw everything at us. 574 00:41:42,484 --> 00:41:45,652 They threw charges at my mother. They threw charges at me. 575 00:41:46,855 --> 00:41:48,755 They threw charges at my brother. 576 00:41:50,058 --> 00:41:52,292 My father's now boxed in. 577 00:41:58,733 --> 00:42:01,201 You know, I don't think people understand. 578 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:04,537 My father didn't get involved in the drug business because 579 00:42:04,573 --> 00:42:06,639 he wanted to sell drugs. 580 00:42:08,210 --> 00:42:11,477 My father stepped in because he wanted to save my brother. 581 00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:16,182 His biggest fear was Gerard was gonna get killed on a 582 00:42:16,218 --> 00:42:18,484 drug deal gone bad, and someone was gonna make a 583 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,154 name for themselves for killing "Sammy the Bull's" son. 584 00:42:23,658 --> 00:42:25,592 Family's everything to my father. 585 00:42:27,629 --> 00:42:32,165 He would never let us jump in quicksand without jumping in with us. 586 00:42:33,501 --> 00:42:37,170 And that's why "Sammy the Bull" got involved in drug dealing. 587 00:42:50,085 --> 00:42:52,919 There was a belief, when Sammy ultimately took 588 00:42:52,954 --> 00:42:54,687 responsibility for what he did, 589 00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:58,491 that he was doing it on behalf of his family and, certainly, 590 00:42:58,526 --> 00:43:02,629 that plea agreement did mitigate Gerard's exposure. 591 00:43:09,804 --> 00:43:11,437 It certainly helped Karen out. 592 00:43:19,381 --> 00:43:22,215 I believe you and this court have been very fair with me and my family, 593 00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:23,549 and I appreciate it very much. 594 00:43:46,541 --> 00:43:49,008 In my view, a lot of the Mafia members, 595 00:43:49,044 --> 00:43:52,946 despite this godfather script of "We don't get 596 00:43:52,981 --> 00:43:56,416 involved in drugs," they get involved in drugs. 597 00:43:56,451 --> 00:43:58,584 They get involved in anything that makes money, 598 00:43:58,620 --> 00:44:02,455 and drugs is an extremely fast way to make a lot of money. 599 00:44:03,358 --> 00:44:04,657 I mean, the fact is, 600 00:44:04,693 --> 00:44:07,493 he was a murderer, but we still talk, 601 00:44:08,196 --> 00:44:11,364 and I look forward to conversations with the guy. 602 00:44:11,933 --> 00:44:13,766 You know, if he was sitting here today, 603 00:44:13,802 --> 00:44:15,435 he would tell you, straight faced, 604 00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:17,370 "I wasn't a drug dealer." 605 00:44:18,406 --> 00:44:20,540 You got convicted of it. 606 00:44:21,709 --> 00:44:26,008 ~subtitles ripped and corrected by~ Rapunzel@addic7ed.com 48279

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