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1
00:02:10,665 --> 00:02:13,566
Shake this square world
and blast off for Kicksville.
2
00:02:14,268 --> 00:02:17,103
America's public enemy
number one is drug abuse.
3
00:02:18,506 --> 00:02:20,406
Just say "No".
4
00:02:20,441 --> 00:02:22,441
The mafia is a major
player in the international
5
00:02:22,477 --> 00:02:23,943
drug underworld.
6
00:02:24,545 --> 00:02:26,746
At the end of the day,
it's all about the dollar.
7
00:02:26,781 --> 00:02:28,514
It's all about the dollar.
8
00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:30,983
American people want
the mob and its associates
9
00:02:31,019 --> 00:02:33,352
brought to justice
and their power broken.
10
00:02:34,122 --> 00:02:36,489
There's now an
understanding that the war on
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00:02:36,524 --> 00:02:38,357
drugs was an abject failure.
12
00:02:38,393 --> 00:02:40,159
You have to stop
and ask yourself,
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00:02:40,194 --> 00:02:42,094
"How did we get here?"
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00:02:43,518 --> 00:02:49,718
~subtitles ripped and corrected by~
Rapunzel@addic7ed.com
15
00:02:59,847 --> 00:03:03,115
The first time I took
ecstasy was in Manchester,
16
00:03:05,052 --> 00:03:05,968
thinking, what is this?
17
00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:08,020
This is pretty boring.
18
00:03:08,055 --> 00:03:10,656
Then, all of a sudden, my
knees just completely buckled,
19
00:03:12,726 --> 00:03:14,893
and time just started to stand still.
20
00:03:18,933 --> 00:03:20,499
Woo!
21
00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:24,736
The whole room is just throbbing,
22
00:03:24,772 --> 00:03:26,672
and everybody is
dancing and the music's
23
00:03:26,707 --> 00:03:29,208
just pulsing into my head.
24
00:03:29,243 --> 00:03:32,844
All these beeps and weird noises,
25
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,214
like signals from outer space
that I didn't understand are
26
00:03:35,249 --> 00:03:37,282
now completely making sense.
27
00:03:40,321 --> 00:03:42,654
I never wanted the party
to end after that night.
28
00:03:42,690 --> 00:03:44,756
Raving became my religion.
29
00:03:45,226 --> 00:03:46,425
I'm Shawn Attwood,
30
00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:48,126
known as one of the
biggest ecstasy traffickers
31
00:03:48,162 --> 00:03:49,895
in the US rave scene.
32
00:03:50,531 --> 00:03:52,364
My local nickname was English Shaun.
33
00:03:52,399 --> 00:03:57,352
I was up against one of the Cosa
Nostra's most notorious killers.
34
00:04:07,481 --> 00:04:11,416
As a young person, I set a
goal to be a millionaire by age 30.
35
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,721
"Greed is good" was my mantra.
36
00:04:16,257 --> 00:04:21,360
I flew out to Arizona because
it had dazzled me as a teenager.
37
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,868
The plane comes in, and
you're looking out the window,
38
00:04:29,903 --> 00:04:32,404
and you're seeing all these
swimming pools in people's backyards.
39
00:04:33,507 --> 00:04:35,307
The sun's always shining.
40
00:04:35,342 --> 00:04:38,744
It's almost 50 degrees
in the summer and,
41
00:04:38,779 --> 00:04:40,178
as soon as they hear the english accent,
42
00:04:40,214 --> 00:04:42,047
they roll out the red carpet.
43
00:04:43,484 --> 00:04:47,836
But the rave scene was barely starting.
44
00:04:47,888 --> 00:04:50,022
They didn't even know
what ecstasy was,
45
00:04:50,057 --> 00:04:52,324
so there was this huge
gap in the market.
46
00:05:00,934 --> 00:05:02,467
When I threw my first rave,
47
00:05:02,503 --> 00:05:06,171
looking down at all the
ravers just going off,
48
00:05:07,374 --> 00:05:09,941
with the strobe lights pulsing,
49
00:05:09,977 --> 00:05:12,577
I knew that this was my calling in life.
50
00:05:15,816 --> 00:05:18,617
It's quarter to six in the morning.
51
00:05:20,204 --> 00:05:21,920
As an experiment,
52
00:05:21,955 --> 00:05:24,423
I decided to order
1,000 pills out of LA.
53
00:05:25,926 --> 00:05:28,443
All this stuff goes in one weekend.
54
00:05:30,097 --> 00:05:33,298
I've made thousands of
dollars, just like that.
55
00:05:33,334 --> 00:05:35,367
Partying my ass off.
56
00:05:35,402 --> 00:05:39,504
And that was when I decided
to go full time trafficking.
57
00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:52,017
One thing about my
father, he is a businessman,
58
00:05:52,052 --> 00:05:53,819
outside of being a gangster.
59
00:05:53,854 --> 00:05:55,654
Some people call it a
racketeer, whatever,
60
00:05:55,689 --> 00:05:58,056
I say he was a businessman
because he knew business.
61
00:05:58,359 --> 00:06:00,425
He's gonna make money.
62
00:06:01,362 --> 00:06:02,961
My name's Karen Gravano.
63
00:06:02,996 --> 00:06:05,964
I'm the daughter of Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano.
64
00:06:07,167 --> 00:06:10,535
He was the under boss of the
Gambino organized crime family,
65
00:06:11,305 --> 00:06:13,271
which was the most powerful
organized crime family
66
00:06:13,307 --> 00:06:15,073
in New York City.
67
00:06:26,603 --> 00:06:30,756
Gravano was a mean,
vicious, horrible person.
68
00:06:32,693 --> 00:06:34,659
Better known as "Sammy the Bull",
69
00:06:34,695 --> 00:06:37,529
a man who pleaded
guilty to 19 murders.
70
00:06:46,707 --> 00:06:49,241
My father was
released from prison in 1995.
71
00:06:49,276 --> 00:06:52,611
The FBI wanted him to go
into witness protection,
72
00:06:52,646 --> 00:06:53,879
so he agreed.
73
00:06:54,214 --> 00:06:56,047
He went into the program.
74
00:06:57,818 --> 00:06:59,785
Being a cooperator, and then,
75
00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:01,253
the witness protection program,
76
00:07:01,288 --> 00:07:03,188
and walking away from the mafia life,
77
00:07:03,223 --> 00:07:06,091
very few of them can succeed at it.
78
00:07:06,126 --> 00:07:09,094
It is an enormously difficult task.
79
00:07:11,398 --> 00:07:13,432
There's so many restrictions.
80
00:07:13,467 --> 00:07:16,968
He wasn't able to talk to us
because we didn't go in the program,
81
00:07:19,706 --> 00:07:21,940
so he signed himself out,
82
00:07:21,975 --> 00:07:24,643
and he joined my mother
and my brother in Arizona.
83
00:07:31,285 --> 00:07:33,285
My fathers main thing was construction.
84
00:07:34,455 --> 00:07:36,421
He loved construction.
85
00:07:37,357 --> 00:07:40,025
He started a company
called Marathon Development,
86
00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:41,493
which, in New York,
87
00:07:41,528 --> 00:07:44,396
he actually had Marathon Concrete.
88
00:07:44,998 --> 00:07:48,333
He was in the office every day trying to
build this company from the ground up,
89
00:07:50,504 --> 00:07:53,538
legitimately creating a business.
90
00:07:54,441 --> 00:07:56,441
He wasn't "Sammy the Bull" anymore.
91
00:07:56,477 --> 00:07:59,044
He wasn't Salvatore Gravano,
he was Jimmy Moran.
92
00:07:59,613 --> 00:08:02,881
That was the identity
the government gave him.
93
00:08:17,698 --> 00:08:21,166
Ecstasy was going for $25 to $30 a pill.
94
00:08:21,735 --> 00:08:24,636
I started to source them from
Holland for $2 or $3 a pill.
95
00:08:26,306 --> 00:08:28,373
My smugglers would
bring them over and they went
96
00:08:28,408 --> 00:08:33,578
from Holland to France to
Mexico City to Hermosillo,
97
00:08:35,082 --> 00:08:36,615
and over the border into Arizona.
98
00:08:38,485 --> 00:08:41,019
The most anyone ever brought
on one of those missions
99
00:08:41,054 --> 00:08:42,954
was 40,000 pills.
100
00:08:51,198 --> 00:08:55,166
By 1999 we were a multi-million-dollar
101
00:08:55,202 --> 00:08:58,336
international ecstasy smuggling ring.
102
00:09:00,357 --> 00:09:02,374
Use of the designer drug, ecstasy,
103
00:09:02,409 --> 00:09:04,025
is rising at an alarming rate.
104
00:09:05,012 --> 00:09:09,915
By 1999 seizures
increased 300% to three million.
105
00:09:10,884 --> 00:09:14,152
Ecstasy never carried
that dirty social stigma that
106
00:09:14,187 --> 00:09:16,621
methamphetamine did, or
heroin did, or cocaine did.
107
00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:19,457
So, the younger generation
thought it was ok
108
00:09:19,493 --> 00:09:21,026
to be taking it.
109
00:09:21,328 --> 00:09:22,961
And why not just
go a club and, you know,
110
00:09:22,996 --> 00:09:24,195
be messed up?
111
00:09:24,665 --> 00:09:25,864
How old are you?
112
00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:27,465
16.
113
00:09:28,001 --> 00:09:29,801
Next thing you know,
little Johnny's not coming
114
00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:32,737
home 'til the sun's coming up.
115
00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:37,576
There were times when they'd
start on a Friday night,
116
00:09:37,611 --> 00:09:39,244
and they'd go through Sunday.
117
00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:44,449
Do you know where your teenagers are?
118
00:09:44,685 --> 00:09:46,451
This could be the night
your child ventures into a
119
00:09:46,486 --> 00:09:48,687
secretive and, potentially,
dangerous world.
120
00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:51,706
The world of the rave.
121
00:09:52,626 --> 00:09:54,125
All of a sudden,
we start fielding calls of
122
00:09:54,161 --> 00:09:56,394
complaints from middle class families.
123
00:09:58,298 --> 00:10:00,966
There is reason to be concerned.
124
00:10:01,435 --> 00:10:04,736
Even one pill of ecstasy
can cause dehydration,
125
00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:06,571
anxiety and exhaustion.
126
00:10:15,983 --> 00:10:17,882
When my lieutenant asked for volunteers,
127
00:10:17,918 --> 00:10:20,285
there wasn't one supervisor
that wanted to volunteer for
128
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,687
that mission because
it wasn't one of them
129
00:10:22,723 --> 00:10:24,089
sexy things to do.
130
00:10:25,692 --> 00:10:28,360
We're doing cocaine,
heroin, meth, marijuana.
131
00:10:30,197 --> 00:10:31,963
I'm sergeant Jim Cope,
132
00:10:31,999 --> 00:10:34,399
from the Phoenix police department.
133
00:10:34,968 --> 00:10:37,702
I was the junior drug
enforcement sergeant at the time,
134
00:10:38,038 --> 00:10:40,405
so I got assigned the job.
135
00:10:42,643 --> 00:10:45,477
I drafted Rich Lebel.
136
00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:48,980
He was our lead undercover
in the whole operation.
137
00:10:51,385 --> 00:10:54,986
At the time, the spiked-up hair
with the bleached tips were in,
138
00:10:55,022 --> 00:10:57,122
so we had him spike his hair.
139
00:10:59,126 --> 00:11:00,925
We developed the strategy
to go in the raves and
140
00:11:00,961 --> 00:11:02,961
actually make undercover
purchases at the raves.
141
00:11:08,635 --> 00:11:09,934
You have to dress the part,
142
00:11:09,970 --> 00:11:12,237
and it's certainly not stuff
I would wear on a daily basis.
143
00:11:14,624 --> 00:11:17,108
You walk inside and, right away,
144
00:11:17,144 --> 00:11:20,345
the music makes your insides
vibrate because it's so loud,
145
00:11:21,348 --> 00:11:23,848
and it's thumping over
and over and over,
146
00:11:23,884 --> 00:11:25,984
with strobe lights and lights flashing.
147
00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:29,004
It's all, sort of, hypnotic.
148
00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:37,295
The vibe was peace,
love, unity and respect.
149
00:11:41,168 --> 00:11:42,667
There was no violence.
150
00:11:42,703 --> 00:11:45,704
There was no Scarface level activity.
151
00:11:51,945 --> 00:11:55,080
Once you were inside,
they were super trusting.
152
00:11:56,616 --> 00:11:58,783
Somebody would walk by you,
and they'd ask you,
153
00:11:58,819 --> 00:12:01,286
"Hey, do you need any E?"
154
00:12:01,321 --> 00:12:03,488
And we would just be making buys.
155
00:12:11,681 --> 00:12:14,866
All of a sudden,
I received mass reports of
156
00:12:14,885 --> 00:12:18,403
these guys that
stood out selling ecstasy.
157
00:12:20,574 --> 00:12:26,878
These were big, steroid head
characters in shiny polyester shirts.
158
00:12:29,783 --> 00:12:31,716
I'm wondering,
who the hell are these guys?
159
00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:39,424
They wanted to have a meeting with me.
160
00:12:40,494 --> 00:12:43,261
So, I sit down between these two guys.
161
00:12:43,296 --> 00:12:45,897
The friendlier one, he says,
162
00:12:45,932 --> 00:12:48,833
"English Shaun, why don't you
start moving some of our pills?"
163
00:12:49,236 --> 00:12:51,903
and I say, "Look, I've
got a good reputation.
164
00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:54,239
Why would we wanna be
getting your stuff?"
165
00:12:54,741 --> 00:12:57,308
Then the big guy just jumps
up off the sofa and says,
166
00:12:57,344 --> 00:13:01,179
"Who the **** are you
disrespecting our pills."
167
00:13:03,316 --> 00:13:06,217
He throws out this name, Jimmy Moran,
168
00:13:09,022 --> 00:13:11,823
and I'm not familiar
with that name, and then,
169
00:13:11,858 --> 00:13:13,525
he follows it up with,
170
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,927
"One call to 'Sammy the Bull' and we can
171
00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:18,163
have you taken out to the desert."
172
00:13:19,766 --> 00:13:21,432
Now, that stopped me in my tracks,
173
00:13:21,468 --> 00:13:23,735
because I've seen John Gotti
174
00:13:23,770 --> 00:13:26,371
and "Sammy the Bull" Gravano
on the news.
175
00:13:27,908 --> 00:13:31,376
These guys are the
Gambino crime family.
176
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,906
I went to dinner with my father.
177
00:13:44,941 --> 00:13:47,842
I wanted to sit down
and know all the things
178
00:13:47,878 --> 00:13:50,912
that I never asked before
when I was kid.
179
00:13:52,983 --> 00:13:55,783
I didn't want him to be my
father and try to protect me.
180
00:13:55,819 --> 00:13:58,953
I wanted him to tell me the truth and,
181
00:13:58,989 --> 00:14:00,555
for the first time in my life, like,
182
00:14:00,590 --> 00:14:03,658
my father started telling me
about the mob, and, you know,
183
00:14:03,693 --> 00:14:05,627
about the things that he did.
184
00:14:06,596 --> 00:14:09,397
You know, my father was
accused of 19 murders.
185
00:14:11,268 --> 00:14:13,968
I wanted to know, like,
did you kill someone?
186
00:14:15,305 --> 00:14:17,172
What was is like?
187
00:14:17,807 --> 00:14:19,974
He looked me in the face and was, like,
188
00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:23,144
"It was, honestly, a rush.
189
00:14:25,015 --> 00:14:28,616
It was like an adrenalin rush,
to be able to take another life."
190
00:14:30,053 --> 00:14:32,687
Um, I didn't expect him to say that.
191
00:14:48,838 --> 00:14:51,906
I was probably a little bit
shocked that he got the five.
192
00:14:51,942 --> 00:14:54,275
19 murders, five years.
193
00:14:56,613 --> 00:14:59,414
How can anybody confess to
that many murders and then do
194
00:14:59,449 --> 00:15:01,216
five years in prison?
195
00:15:07,591 --> 00:15:10,225
I think it's clear that "Sammy
the Bull" is a marked man.
196
00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:13,228
There are mob members
that would love to kill him.
197
00:15:13,263 --> 00:15:15,496
There are wannabees that
would love to kill him just
198
00:15:15,532 --> 00:15:17,365
to add to their reputation.
199
00:15:19,302 --> 00:15:23,104
He's basically thrown
all the rules out the window.
200
00:15:23,139 --> 00:15:25,707
But the biggest one is
being omert�, right?
201
00:15:25,742 --> 00:15:28,910
He's destroyed the oath of secrecy.
202
00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:32,547
"Sammy the Bull" is now "Sammy the Rat".
203
00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:39,487
He's still working with us
on cases and information.
204
00:15:41,458 --> 00:15:43,858
It was in my best interest,
as the government,
205
00:15:43,893 --> 00:15:47,528
to make sure that this guy
survived and played by the rules.
206
00:15:58,208 --> 00:16:01,376
With this new breed of ecstasy
dealers infiltrating my raves,
207
00:16:02,479 --> 00:16:05,546
there was this change in
the atmosphere at the party.
208
00:16:07,584 --> 00:16:10,785
Pills were cut with all
kinds of toxic substances.
209
00:16:11,221 --> 00:16:12,954
People were tripping.
210
00:16:12,989 --> 00:16:15,323
People felt like they
were on crystal meth.
211
00:16:15,358 --> 00:16:17,392
All kinds of bad reports were coming in,
212
00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:22,730
and violent episodes occurred.
213
00:16:26,703 --> 00:16:30,505
When my top ecstasy salesperson
got his teeth smashed out,
214
00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:33,741
in the back of my mind then,
I'm thinking
215
00:16:33,777 --> 00:16:36,344
these guys wanna
take me out to the desert.
216
00:16:38,948 --> 00:16:40,948
Sammy the Bull.
217
00:16:40,984 --> 00:16:42,684
You can't mess around
with people who've got
218
00:16:42,719 --> 00:16:44,819
that lethal reputation.
219
00:16:47,657 --> 00:16:51,159
I got so scared I moved over
100 miles to Tucson, Arizona,
220
00:16:51,194 --> 00:16:54,062
to live in a gated, guarded community.
221
00:17:11,948 --> 00:17:16,017
When Rich Lebel was
up to 250 to 500 pill buys,
222
00:17:16,786 --> 00:17:18,419
the suspects we were dealing with said,
223
00:17:18,455 --> 00:17:21,322
"Hey, if you guys are gonna
be players in this market,
224
00:17:21,358 --> 00:17:24,258
you'd better be careful because the
New York guys are running everything,
225
00:17:24,928 --> 00:17:27,261
and you're gonna have to
pay tax on your pills to them."
226
00:17:34,137 --> 00:17:35,470
Rich is from the east coast,
227
00:17:35,505 --> 00:17:37,372
and I'm from the east coast,
and we were both, like,
228
00:17:37,407 --> 00:17:38,773
New York guys.
229
00:17:38,808 --> 00:17:40,575
You know, we're in Arizona, whatever.
230
00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:42,610
We didn't take it serious at all.
231
00:17:44,314 --> 00:17:47,081
You gotta realize, at the time,
The Sopranos was in.
232
00:17:47,117 --> 00:17:49,717
They were all striving to be
some young gangster, you know?
233
00:17:49,753 --> 00:17:51,919
Some mobster.
234
00:17:51,955 --> 00:17:54,088
These are just kids talking.
235
00:18:11,141 --> 00:18:13,508
I got a tip that
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano was
236
00:18:13,543 --> 00:18:16,978
hanging out in Arizona under
the assumed name of Jimmy Moran.
237
00:18:18,748 --> 00:18:23,518
Um, I wasn't sure exactly
how to go about this.
238
00:18:24,254 --> 00:18:26,554
It's not like you got out
and interview Mafia hit men
239
00:18:26,589 --> 00:18:28,289
all the time.
240
00:18:28,892 --> 00:18:31,959
I found that he had a
construction company.
241
00:18:31,995 --> 00:18:35,163
I drove around
Marathon Development, like,
242
00:18:35,198 --> 00:18:38,833
two or three times thinking,
what am I gonna do here?
243
00:18:38,868 --> 00:18:42,003
It was in a big warehouse
district of Phoenix.
244
00:18:42,038 --> 00:18:44,739
Kind of, a junkie area,
and it had a little foyer,
245
00:18:44,774 --> 00:18:46,174
and there was a little bell there,
246
00:18:46,209 --> 00:18:47,575
and there was nobody upfront
247
00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:49,377
at the front desk so I rang the bell.
248
00:18:54,617 --> 00:18:56,984
And, out of the office
walks "Sammy the Bull" Gravano,
249
00:18:57,620 --> 00:19:01,122
and he walked straight up to me,
250
00:19:01,157 --> 00:19:04,091
and he had these
shark-like eyes and he said,
251
00:19:05,662 --> 00:19:07,728
"What the **** do you want?"
252
00:19:08,698 --> 00:19:10,932
And, I said, "Mr. Gravano,
253
00:19:10,967 --> 00:19:13,601
I wanna interview you",
and he kept saying,
254
00:19:13,636 --> 00:19:17,004
"You don't know anything
about me", and I said,
255
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,409
"Well, I know that you're responsible
for something like 18 homicides",
256
00:19:22,212 --> 00:19:25,746
and he says,
"Get your **** facts straight.
257
00:19:25,782 --> 00:19:27,482
It's 19."
258
00:19:27,517 --> 00:19:30,618
And that just blew me away.
259
00:19:31,988 --> 00:19:35,256
He said, "If you do this story,
260
00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:39,126
people are gonna get killed.
It's not a good idea."
261
00:19:48,999 --> 00:19:50,999
My father just came home from prison.
262
00:19:51,224 --> 00:19:53,891
My mother and brother
bought a restaurant.
263
00:19:54,894 --> 00:19:57,195
Everyone always thinks that
we picked the name "Uncle Sal"
264
00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:59,063
as the best kept secret in Scottsdale.
265
00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:01,165
When they bought the restaurant,
266
00:20:01,201 --> 00:20:02,967
it was already called "Uncle Sal's".
267
00:20:03,002 --> 00:20:04,769
I mean, yes, we laughed
about it, and it was, like,
268
00:20:04,804 --> 00:20:06,938
Salvatore Gravano, "Uncle Sal's".
269
00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:10,808
It's ours. We're taking it.
270
00:20:11,377 --> 00:20:16,647
We joke at home, but I think my
mother's the real gangster here.
271
00:20:18,585 --> 00:20:20,685
My mother's name's Debbie.
272
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,870
She came to Arizona with all the money.
273
00:20:23,223 --> 00:20:25,156
So she financed things,
whether it was the restaurant,
274
00:20:25,191 --> 00:20:26,824
or whatever it was.
275
00:20:26,859 --> 00:20:30,027
My brother, Gerard, he was a
chef working in the restaurant.
276
00:20:32,432 --> 00:20:35,733
I'd just had my daughter,
and my brother had a son,
277
00:20:35,768 --> 00:20:36,934
and we were doing good.
278
00:20:36,970 --> 00:20:40,004
We were working hard, we
were staying out of trouble,
279
00:20:40,373 --> 00:20:41,906
and we were just really,
280
00:20:41,941 --> 00:20:43,708
honestly building our family back up.
281
00:20:57,991 --> 00:21:00,258
Word came back to me
that a reporter by the name of
282
00:21:00,293 --> 00:21:02,793
Dennis Wagner was
gonna write a story and we
283
00:21:02,829 --> 00:21:04,328
wanted to stop it.
284
00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:08,833
My publisher was
on a cruise in the Caribbean
285
00:21:08,868 --> 00:21:15,106
and a shore to ship call was
made by the FBI trying to convince my
286
00:21:15,141 --> 00:21:16,641
publisher not to run the story.
287
00:21:18,911 --> 00:21:21,712
You print this story
and expose this guy,
288
00:21:21,748 --> 00:21:23,481
all you're gonna do is get him killed.
289
00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:27,818
The story's not as
important as you think it is.
290
00:21:27,854 --> 00:21:29,620
This guy's life is.
291
00:21:42,869 --> 00:21:44,969
It was picked up by
media all over the world.
292
00:21:46,973 --> 00:21:49,173
It was, kind of, an
explosion in that sense.
293
00:21:59,285 --> 00:22:01,686
We knew the Gambino
family were actively trying to
294
00:22:01,721 --> 00:22:07,224
figure out where he was and
how to set up on him, and now,
295
00:22:07,527 --> 00:22:08,793
all of a sudden,
296
00:22:08,828 --> 00:22:11,529
they were able to
start tracking him down.
297
00:22:13,566 --> 00:22:15,316
Once that newspaper article came out,
298
00:22:15,368 --> 00:22:17,501
it made everyone start looking at us.
299
00:22:19,706 --> 00:22:23,407
That was actually the start
of everything going bad for my
300
00:22:23,443 --> 00:22:25,710
family in Arizona.
301
00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:30,948
All the kids that were,
you knew, mob groupies,
302
00:22:30,983 --> 00:22:32,383
or whatever you wanna call them,
303
00:22:32,418 --> 00:22:34,051
infatuated with that lifestyle.
304
00:22:34,087 --> 00:22:35,252
"Oh, Sammy the Bull's here."
305
00:22:35,288 --> 00:22:37,588
"Oh, his family owns this restaurant."
306
00:22:38,825 --> 00:22:42,426
And that's what drew the
attention of the wrong people.
307
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,167
My brother was
working in the restaurant.
308
00:22:51,003 --> 00:22:54,305
This guy came in, and he
threw $1,000 on the table,
309
00:22:56,409 --> 00:22:58,476
and he told Gerard, "Here,
put this in your pocket.
310
00:22:58,511 --> 00:22:59,910
Come out with us tonight.
311
00:22:59,946 --> 00:23:00,978
We're gonna go to the clubs.
312
00:23:01,013 --> 00:23:03,314
Everything is on me, and, by the way,
313
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:05,383
I love your father."
314
00:23:06,252 --> 00:23:08,619
So, that's how Mike Papa
comes into the whole picture.
315
00:23:09,989 --> 00:23:11,856
That's how this whole
ecstasy thing started.
316
00:23:16,562 --> 00:23:18,329
Mike Papa was a sharp kid.
317
00:23:18,364 --> 00:23:19,597
He dressed nice.
318
00:23:19,632 --> 00:23:21,732
He was a good-looking kid.
He knew how to talk.
319
00:23:21,768 --> 00:23:23,701
He had the New York hustle,
320
00:23:23,736 --> 00:23:25,870
because he was originally from New York.
321
00:23:35,782 --> 00:23:38,449
So, Gerard, building his
friendship with Mike Papa,
322
00:23:38,484 --> 00:23:40,751
started going to clubs with him.
323
00:23:40,787 --> 00:23:42,820
Gerard started seeing
that this guy's, you know,
324
00:23:42,855 --> 00:23:44,989
he's selling pills,
he's selling ecstasy.
325
00:23:47,243 --> 00:23:50,861
Mike Papa was a big, big
person in that rave scene.
326
00:24:06,179 --> 00:24:08,412
As our investigation was progressing,
327
00:24:08,881 --> 00:24:11,015
we kept hearing the rumors
about the New York guys.
328
00:24:12,652 --> 00:24:16,620
I was at the gym working out,
an acquaintance of mine said,
329
00:24:16,923 --> 00:24:20,391
"Hey, do you know anything about
some kind of crazy club drug or...",
330
00:24:20,426 --> 00:24:21,859
he called it a "sex drug".
331
00:24:22,728 --> 00:24:24,328
He goes, "All these
young kids are, at the gym,
332
00:24:24,363 --> 00:24:27,331
bragging about how much money
they're making off these pills",
333
00:24:28,801 --> 00:24:31,635
And he named
Mike Papa, and he goes,
334
00:24:31,671 --> 00:24:34,305
"You're not gonna believe it,
they say they're being backed
335
00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:36,340
by 'Sammy the Bull' Gravano."
336
00:24:43,149 --> 00:24:44,815
When I first started hearing about the
337
00:24:44,851 --> 00:24:46,884
Gravano name being involved
in the ecstasy scene,
338
00:24:46,919 --> 00:24:48,352
you know, I said to myself,
339
00:24:48,387 --> 00:24:50,387
Sammy would be crazy to get
involved in any of this stuff.
340
00:24:59,899 --> 00:25:02,066
I think we have something here.
341
00:25:02,468 --> 00:25:04,702
But I've already had to
convince everybody, hey,
342
00:25:04,737 --> 00:25:07,204
there's something to
this with this drug ecstasy,
343
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,405
you know, and now,
344
00:25:08,441 --> 00:25:10,574
I'm gonna say, "I think
'Sammy the Bull' Gravano,
345
00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:13,444
a legendary mafia
hit man is also involved."
346
00:25:14,747 --> 00:25:16,647
People would think I was crazy.
347
00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:21,051
Mike Papa started to
come into the restaurant and
348
00:25:21,087 --> 00:25:22,820
my father finally met him.
349
00:25:23,256 --> 00:25:25,356
My father was,
you know, "Who is this guy?"
350
00:25:25,391 --> 00:25:28,325
He wasn't introduced to my father as,
351
00:25:28,361 --> 00:25:30,494
"Oh, this is our drug
dealing friend, Mike Papa,
352
00:25:31,063 --> 00:25:33,130
who sells ecstasy at raves."
353
00:25:33,165 --> 00:25:35,266
It's, like,
"This is our friend Mike.
354
00:25:35,301 --> 00:25:37,668
He goes to ASU.
He's a college student.
355
00:25:37,703 --> 00:25:39,570
He's from New York."
356
00:25:41,407 --> 00:25:43,641
My father was anti-drug,
357
00:25:44,644 --> 00:25:48,879
and so adamant about Gerard and I
having the straight and narrow path,
358
00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,918
building a life that is unbreakable.
359
00:25:56,255 --> 00:25:59,456
But, unfortunately, we **** up.
360
00:26:11,020 --> 00:26:13,988
We see ecstasy coming from Canada.
361
00:26:14,290 --> 00:26:16,657
Unfortunately, the ecstasy and molly,
362
00:26:16,692 --> 00:26:18,726
it's actually caused
death, here in Detroit.
363
00:26:30,172 --> 00:26:32,439
Any time where there's drugs involved,
364
00:26:32,475 --> 00:26:34,275
you know, you're dealing
with a lot of money.
365
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:36,176
People tend to use guns.
366
00:26:42,685 --> 00:26:44,818
The DJs are selling
the dope and it's coming
367
00:26:44,854 --> 00:26:47,488
out of the bathroom too.
368
00:26:57,566 --> 00:26:59,333
The door, the door.
369
00:27:02,872 --> 00:27:04,471
Search warrant, gotta go, gotta go.
370
00:27:04,507 --> 00:27:06,073
Move by the door, the door.
371
00:27:06,108 --> 00:27:07,541
Face down. Face down.
372
00:27:07,576 --> 00:27:09,677
Straighten your legs out.
Straighten your legs out.
373
00:27:09,712 --> 00:27:11,145
Face down. Look at the floor.
374
00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:13,414
Don't be looking around.
This ain't entertainment.
375
00:27:13,449 --> 00:27:15,549
Keep your hands
where I can see them.
376
00:27:15,584 --> 00:27:16,784
Wanna get cuffed up?
377
00:27:16,819 --> 00:27:18,552
Look at the floor.
378
00:27:21,490 --> 00:27:22,790
You have any guns on you?
379
00:27:22,825 --> 00:27:24,591
No.
380
00:27:25,328 --> 00:27:27,628
Got a gun right here.
381
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:29,863
It was loaded. I just cleared it.
382
00:27:29,899 --> 00:27:32,499
Put your hands on the floor.
383
00:27:32,535 --> 00:27:33,667
Crawl out now.
384
00:27:33,703 --> 00:27:34,935
Crawl backwards.
Crawl backwards.
385
00:27:34,971 --> 00:27:36,704
Now, move.
386
00:27:37,273 --> 00:27:38,105
What do you have?
387
00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:39,707
Coke in there.
388
00:27:39,742 --> 00:27:41,442
Tried dumping the coke.
389
00:27:41,477 --> 00:27:43,777
Toilet doesn't flush. It didn't work.
390
00:27:50,953 --> 00:27:54,288
Looks like a pretty good
size piece of crystal meth.
391
00:27:54,623 --> 00:27:58,459
Ecstasy. Heroin. Crack cocaine.
392
00:28:00,663 --> 00:28:01,996
Good job, guys.
393
00:28:19,648 --> 00:28:22,383
As we were progressing
and learning that, you know,
394
00:28:22,418 --> 00:28:24,752
there's a possibility
that "Sammy the Bull" Gravano
395
00:28:24,787 --> 00:28:26,387
was involved,
396
00:28:26,422 --> 00:28:29,289
I knew we were gonna have
to take it to another level,
397
00:28:29,325 --> 00:28:31,892
and I said, "You know,
I'm gonna sit down with Ron."
398
00:28:34,864 --> 00:28:36,330
My name's Ron Sterrett,
399
00:28:36,365 --> 00:28:38,699
and I was the lead detective
for the Phoenix police department
400
00:28:38,734 --> 00:28:41,101
in the Gravano ecstasy
trafficking investigation.
401
00:28:44,507 --> 00:28:47,708
I didn't believe that Sammy
would be associating with
402
00:28:47,743 --> 00:28:50,144
college kids selling
drugs, quite honestly.
403
00:28:50,946 --> 00:28:53,147
I thought that was beneath his level.
404
00:28:55,384 --> 00:28:57,918
But, when we obtained
Mike Papa's phone number,
405
00:28:57,953 --> 00:29:00,287
it was subscribed to
Marathon Development.
406
00:29:01,824 --> 00:29:03,991
It, right away,
hit me a business that Sammy
407
00:29:04,026 --> 00:29:06,226
ran back in New York was Marathon.
408
00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:11,698
So, the link was created.
409
00:29:11,967 --> 00:29:15,636
Mike Papa, who was involved in
ecstasy trafficking worked for
410
00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:17,304
Sammy at Marathon Development.
411
00:29:37,293 --> 00:29:39,226
When it comes to the wire tap,
412
00:29:39,261 --> 00:29:42,362
we were going to go up,
initially, on Mike Papa.
413
00:29:53,109 --> 00:29:56,443
He was horribly
undisciplined on the phone and
414
00:29:56,912 --> 00:29:59,713
would talk at length about
their drug trafficking activities.
415
00:30:03,152 --> 00:30:05,385
If the rumors were true that
Sammy Gravano's involved,
416
00:30:06,622 --> 00:30:08,822
Mike Papa and Mike Papa's
phone would walk us directly
417
00:30:08,858 --> 00:30:10,491
into that evidence.
418
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:16,430
But, actually, the link was created
419
00:30:16,465 --> 00:30:18,365
to Gerard Gravano.
420
00:30:29,411 --> 00:30:32,179
When Gerard got involved
in the ecstasy business,
421
00:30:32,214 --> 00:30:34,781
all of a sudden,
it went from the Mike Papa
422
00:30:34,817 --> 00:30:37,050
investigation to the
Gravano investigation,
423
00:30:39,088 --> 00:30:42,322
because they realized that
this is "Sammy the Bull's" son.
424
00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:58,238
During our wiretap I
kept seeing this light-colored
425
00:30:58,274 --> 00:31:00,073
Mercury Marquis out on surveillance.
426
00:31:03,979 --> 00:31:06,747
I would always come into
the wire room and I'd say,
427
00:31:06,782 --> 00:31:09,550
"Hey, I think there's some other
dudes out there following this guy",
428
00:31:10,352 --> 00:31:12,019
and, because of the
shape of the car, I'm, like,
429
00:31:12,054 --> 00:31:13,954
"Maybe it's another cop?"
430
00:31:15,724 --> 00:31:17,791
My father started
feeling like people were
431
00:31:17,826 --> 00:31:20,194
following him, and he said,
432
00:31:20,229 --> 00:31:22,462
"Listen, I don't know if it's the cops,
433
00:31:22,498 --> 00:31:23,897
if it's people from New York,
434
00:31:23,933 --> 00:31:25,966
but I feel like something is going on."
435
00:31:28,971 --> 00:31:30,437
Everybody told me I was crazy.
436
00:31:30,472 --> 00:31:32,673
There's nobody else, and I'm,
like, "I keep seeing this car.
437
00:31:32,708 --> 00:31:34,341
Something's up with this car."
438
00:31:37,046 --> 00:31:39,513
The whole time Sammy was out in Arizona
439
00:31:39,548 --> 00:31:42,849
we knew Gotti had given
the contract on Sammy.
440
00:31:45,054 --> 00:31:47,187
"He screwed us. You gotta go get him."
441
00:32:04,974 --> 00:32:07,674
During the wiretap
the kids made constant
442
00:32:07,710 --> 00:32:09,109
reference to "The Big Guy".
443
00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:14,581
Every now and again somebody
would slip and call him Sammy.
444
00:32:16,752 --> 00:32:19,319
They openly referred
to Gravano, you know,
445
00:32:19,355 --> 00:32:22,389
when they were trying to feel
important or show off to their friends.
446
00:32:36,939 --> 00:32:39,740
Mike Papa is talking about
"'The big man' takes 50 cents,"
447
00:32:40,676 --> 00:32:42,142
so he can't drop the price.
448
00:32:42,177 --> 00:32:43,310
That's Mike saying,
449
00:32:43,345 --> 00:32:44,711
"I'm not gonna drop my price",
450
00:32:44,747 --> 00:32:46,413
and using my father as leverage.
451
00:32:47,616 --> 00:32:49,583
"If you got a problem,
go talk to 'Sammy the Bull'."
452
00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:57,157
We really believed Sammy's
name was being thrown out by
453
00:32:57,192 --> 00:32:59,793
these younger kids as a
point of intimidation.
454
00:33:02,531 --> 00:33:03,997
So, the speculation was always,
455
00:33:04,033 --> 00:33:05,966
are we gonna get to
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano?
456
00:33:23,168 --> 00:33:24,768
In January of 2000,
457
00:33:24,803 --> 00:33:26,470
Ron Sterrett and the investigative team
458
00:33:26,505 --> 00:33:29,773
start intercepting
calls between a supplier in
459
00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:31,391
California and Mike Papa.
460
00:33:37,516 --> 00:33:38,715
As those calls progressed,
461
00:33:38,751 --> 00:33:41,284
we realized a large
shipment of 25,000 pills were
462
00:33:41,303 --> 00:33:43,520
gonna be coming in from LA.
463
00:33:50,596 --> 00:33:54,364
We knew exactly
where the exchange of money
464
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,932
and pills was gonna take place.
465
00:33:59,605 --> 00:34:02,339
They met at a
hamburger place real close to
466
00:34:02,374 --> 00:34:04,007
Arizona State University.
467
00:34:06,945 --> 00:34:09,980
We saw the bag of ecstasy
coming into possession
468
00:34:10,015 --> 00:34:11,331
of Mike Papa.
469
00:34:15,854 --> 00:34:18,955
We followed Mike Papa directly
back to Marathon Development,
470
00:34:20,592 --> 00:34:23,293
and saw Mike Papa carry the bag in.
471
00:34:44,049 --> 00:34:48,785
It was just amazing how
fast those pills were gone.
472
00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:54,191
They were distributed in
the Phoenix metropolitan area,
473
00:34:54,226 --> 00:34:56,960
and I don't think they lasted a week.
474
00:35:07,172 --> 00:35:08,839
It got frustrating because
we weren't getting the
475
00:35:08,874 --> 00:35:10,874
confirmation that Sammy
was involved with this
476
00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:12,876
ecstasy thing that the kids were doing.
477
00:35:18,083 --> 00:35:20,884
All of the ecstasy purchases
were being done by Mike Papa.
478
00:35:22,721 --> 00:35:24,454
Gerard was right there.
479
00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:27,057
He was a distributor that was
giving it to the other parties
480
00:35:27,092 --> 00:35:28,725
that were going out
and selling the pills.
481
00:35:36,468 --> 00:35:38,301
The whole time
I'm dealing with Sammy,
482
00:35:38,971 --> 00:35:41,771
there were no indications he
was doing anything other than
483
00:35:41,807 --> 00:35:43,440
running his business,
484
00:35:43,475 --> 00:35:45,909
helping the family with
the Italian restaurant,
485
00:35:45,944 --> 00:35:47,344
and trying to be legitimate.
486
00:35:48,147 --> 00:35:51,081
I had no doubt that that's
what was going on with him.
487
00:36:33,525 --> 00:36:35,892
That call came in
somewhere between 11:00
488
00:36:35,928 --> 00:36:37,694
in the evening to 1:00 in the morning.
489
00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:41,765
A normal business doesn't
pay somebody at 11:00 in the
490
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,400
evening for a gas receipt.
491
00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:46,803
$70 for gas receipts,
492
00:36:47,439 --> 00:36:50,073
we knew that that
was code for $70,000
493
00:36:50,108 --> 00:36:51,641
for the ecstasy.
494
00:36:54,713 --> 00:36:57,714
Gerard and Mike Papa
needed to ask Sammy
495
00:36:58,984 --> 00:37:01,918
to front the $70,000
for the next shipment.
496
00:37:04,122 --> 00:37:07,357
That brought him right into
the middle of the financing of
497
00:37:07,392 --> 00:37:09,159
the ecstasy organization.
498
00:37:11,964 --> 00:37:14,130
I can't believe
Gravano was so stupid to be
499
00:37:14,166 --> 00:37:17,067
caught doing these types
of things with these kids.
500
00:37:20,505 --> 00:37:22,606
The prosecutor came
down to the wire room and
501
00:37:22,641 --> 00:37:24,107
listened to the phone call.
502
00:37:24,843 --> 00:37:26,643
Can she do it right away?
503
00:37:26,912 --> 00:37:28,812
And said, "We've got
the evidence that I'm looking
504
00:37:28,847 --> 00:37:30,880
for to charge Sammy."
505
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:32,716
Yeah, we got him.
506
00:37:32,751 --> 00:37:34,651
We got enough.
We got enough for everybody.
507
00:37:34,686 --> 00:37:36,353
This whole group is done.
508
00:37:46,398 --> 00:37:49,432
We come to find out
Gotti had sent a hit team down
509
00:37:49,468 --> 00:37:50,634
to Arizona.
510
00:37:54,106 --> 00:37:57,440
There was a plan to kill Sammy
where Sammy parked his car.
511
00:37:59,878 --> 00:38:02,812
The individual was set up in
a position across the street
512
00:38:02,848 --> 00:38:04,347
with a high-powered rifle.
513
00:38:09,187 --> 00:38:11,821
My father would have
never laid down lightly.
514
00:38:13,225 --> 00:38:14,991
It's no secret that,
at that particular time,
515
00:38:15,027 --> 00:38:16,493
he had guns.
516
00:38:17,763 --> 00:38:19,362
If some gun battle was going off,
517
00:38:19,398 --> 00:38:21,931
he's coming out shooting.
518
00:38:24,536 --> 00:38:27,771
Everybody was ready for
whatever was gonna happen.
519
00:38:39,134 --> 00:38:40,900
There was probably
200 tactical officers at
520
00:38:40,936 --> 00:38:42,435
that meeting from different agencies.
521
00:38:44,006 --> 00:38:45,238
So, I have a lot of guys there.
522
00:38:45,273 --> 00:38:47,807
They're not real happy
about being up so early.
523
00:38:47,843 --> 00:38:51,244
But the attention level on
the room definitely heightened
524
00:38:51,279 --> 00:38:53,146
when we told them who was involved,
525
00:38:53,181 --> 00:38:54,681
and what the case was about.
526
00:39:09,231 --> 00:39:12,332
We wanted to use the
cover of darkness to minimize
527
00:39:12,367 --> 00:39:15,802
any potential risk to the
officers or Sammy getting
528
00:39:15,837 --> 00:39:17,203
involved in a shooting.
529
00:39:22,377 --> 00:39:23,643
When they made entry,
530
00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:25,845
Sammy was crawling on the
floor toward getting a gun.
531
00:39:27,549 --> 00:39:31,251
I think he thought it was
the mob coming after him.
532
00:39:33,155 --> 00:39:35,522
He surrendered, was handcuffed,
533
00:39:35,557 --> 00:39:39,059
and brought to the facility
where I was waiting for him.
534
00:39:41,129 --> 00:39:42,829
He was a really sharp guy.
535
00:39:43,098 --> 00:39:46,066
I could tell he was scanning
every document he could to try
536
00:39:46,101 --> 00:39:48,234
to figure out how bad
it is and what's going on.
537
00:39:49,604 --> 00:39:51,938
I told him "You're
being arrested for conspiracy
538
00:39:51,973 --> 00:39:53,673
to distribute dangerous drugs."
539
00:39:54,843 --> 00:39:57,677
And he just kinda leaned his head
back and closed his eyes and sighed,
540
00:39:58,714 --> 00:40:01,047
like, "Jeez, I can't
believe I got caught for this."
541
00:40:02,818 --> 00:40:05,685
But, quite honestly, we feel
we saved Sammy's life by
542
00:40:05,721 --> 00:40:07,220
arresting him a few days before he was
543
00:40:07,255 --> 00:40:08,955
gonna get killed.
544
00:40:10,659 --> 00:40:13,226
He insisted he was a
hard-working businessman,
545
00:40:13,261 --> 00:40:15,195
who had settled into his
new law-abiding life.
546
00:40:16,364 --> 00:40:18,732
But a tiger doesn't change his stripes.
547
00:40:19,768 --> 00:40:21,668
And authorities
say it was a family affair.
548
00:40:27,142 --> 00:40:28,675
I made mistakes.
549
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:31,478
Did I know that there
was ecstasy being sold?
550
00:40:31,813 --> 00:40:32,979
Yes.
551
00:40:33,014 --> 00:40:35,215
Was I involved in,
maybe, some of the talks?
552
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:36,916
Yes.
553
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,587
Me and my brother, we **** up.
554
00:40:42,491 --> 00:40:43,690
The crime ring, allegedly,
555
00:40:43,725 --> 00:40:46,960
distributed up to 30,000 pills
a week of the drug ecstasy.
556
00:40:49,397 --> 00:40:51,331
He beyond stabbed us in the back,
557
00:40:51,366 --> 00:40:52,966
it was betrayal.
558
00:40:53,001 --> 00:40:54,801
I mean, it was the
stupidest thing he could do.
559
00:40:54,836 --> 00:40:57,370
It was the worst thing he could do.
560
00:40:58,073 --> 00:40:59,839
Nobody was gonna save him this time.
561
00:41:01,643 --> 00:41:03,977
The turncoat who
sent so many mobsters to jail
562
00:41:04,012 --> 00:41:06,112
could soon be joining them.
563
00:41:08,016 --> 00:41:09,315
I was over at Mike Papa's residence
564
00:41:09,351 --> 00:41:10,984
when we arrested Mike.
565
00:41:11,019 --> 00:41:15,655
I thought Mike would be one
of the ones who cooperated.
566
00:41:16,491 --> 00:41:19,459
He might just be the
most famous snitch of all time,
567
00:41:19,494 --> 00:41:21,995
but now Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
568
00:41:22,013 --> 00:41:23,963
has had the tables turned.
569
00:41:29,938 --> 00:41:31,938
That's the nature of drug dealing.
570
00:41:31,973 --> 00:41:33,773
People are always gonna
be ratting people out and
571
00:41:33,809 --> 00:41:35,608
pointing fingers at one another.
572
00:41:37,279 --> 00:41:39,746
Once Mike Papa started
cooperating with the government,
573
00:41:39,781 --> 00:41:41,714
they threw everything at us.
574
00:41:42,484 --> 00:41:45,652
They threw charges at my mother.
They threw charges at me.
575
00:41:46,855 --> 00:41:48,755
They threw charges at my brother.
576
00:41:50,058 --> 00:41:52,292
My father's now boxed in.
577
00:41:58,733 --> 00:42:01,201
You know, I don't think
people understand.
578
00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:04,537
My father didn't get involved
in the drug business because
579
00:42:04,573 --> 00:42:06,639
he wanted to sell drugs.
580
00:42:08,210 --> 00:42:11,477
My father stepped in because
he wanted to save my brother.
581
00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:16,182
His biggest fear was Gerard
was gonna get killed on a
582
00:42:16,218 --> 00:42:18,484
drug deal gone bad, and
someone was gonna make a
583
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,154
name for themselves for
killing "Sammy the Bull's" son.
584
00:42:23,658 --> 00:42:25,592
Family's everything to my father.
585
00:42:27,629 --> 00:42:32,165
He would never let us jump in
quicksand without jumping in with us.
586
00:42:33,501 --> 00:42:37,170
And that's why "Sammy the Bull"
got involved in drug dealing.
587
00:42:50,085 --> 00:42:52,919
There was a belief,
when Sammy ultimately took
588
00:42:52,954 --> 00:42:54,687
responsibility for what he did,
589
00:42:55,490 --> 00:42:58,491
that he was doing it on behalf
of his family and, certainly,
590
00:42:58,526 --> 00:43:02,629
that plea agreement did
mitigate Gerard's exposure.
591
00:43:09,804 --> 00:43:11,437
It certainly helped Karen out.
592
00:43:19,381 --> 00:43:22,215
I believe you and this court have
been very fair with me and my family,
593
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:23,549
and I appreciate it very much.
594
00:43:46,541 --> 00:43:49,008
In my view, a lot of the Mafia members,
595
00:43:49,044 --> 00:43:52,946
despite this godfather
script of "We don't get
596
00:43:52,981 --> 00:43:56,416
involved in drugs,"
they get involved in drugs.
597
00:43:56,451 --> 00:43:58,584
They get involved in
anything that makes money,
598
00:43:58,620 --> 00:44:02,455
and drugs is an extremely
fast way to make a lot of money.
599
00:44:03,358 --> 00:44:04,657
I mean, the fact is,
600
00:44:04,693 --> 00:44:07,493
he was a murderer, but we still talk,
601
00:44:08,196 --> 00:44:11,364
and I look forward to
conversations with the guy.
602
00:44:11,933 --> 00:44:13,766
You know, if he
was sitting here today,
603
00:44:13,802 --> 00:44:15,435
he would tell you, straight faced,
604
00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:17,370
"I wasn't a drug dealer."
605
00:44:18,406 --> 00:44:20,540
You got convicted of it.
606
00:44:21,709 --> 00:44:26,008
~subtitles ripped and corrected by~
Rapunzel@addic7ed.com
48279
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