All language subtitles for Copia de captions Taking a Stand(1)

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okay awesome okay so I'm just wondering um

Hello and welcome to the fourth annual Bronx
Book Festival presented by The Bronx is Reading.

My name is Leah Clark. My pronouns are she and
hers and I am one of the chairs for the Bronx

Book Festival kid lit committee. I'm thrilled
to introduce this panel. You are tuning in to

Taking a Stand: Empowering Middle Grade Readers
which will be moderated by Aida Salazar. Aida is

an award-winning author and arts activist
whose writings for adults and children

explore issues of identity and social justice. She
is the author of the middle grade verse novels,

The Moon Within, an International Latino
Book Award Winner, Land of the Cranes,

and the biography picture book Jovita Wore
Pants: The Story of a Revolutionary Fighter.

She is slated to co-edit with Yamile Saied
Méndez, Calling the Moon, a middle grade

anthology on menstruation by writers of color. She
is a founding member of Las Musas, a Latinx kidlit

debut author collective. And now I will turn it
over to Aida to introduce our other panelists.

Hello everyone, thank you, thank you so much
um for for having this. I just want to take um

a brief moment before we begin to um to just
acknowledge the the the difficulty that this

world has um has experienced, our worlds have
experienced, in the last year and and just a

gratitude, gratitude for the Ohlone people, from
the people whose land I live on now um and and all

the indigenous people and the Black and and Asian
and Latinx folks who are really, really struggling

these days um in this pandemic. So just wanted to
send love and grounding in that in that gratitude.

So I am so excited to introduce to you uh Ernesto
Cisneros who was born and raised in Santa Ana,

California where he still teaches. He holds an
English degree from the University of California,

Irvine, a teaching credential from
California State University, Long Beach,

as well as a Masters in Fine Arts in Creative
Writing from National University. As an author,

he believes in providing today’s youth with an
honest depiction of characters with whom they can

identify. The real world is filled with amazing
people with diverse backgrounds and perspectives.

His work strives to reflect that. Efrén Divided
is his first book. And you can visit him online

at ernestocisneros.com. Welcome Ernesto, this
is this beautiful book. Hold up your book.

Um and Jessica Kim writes about Asian
American girls finding their way in the

world. Before she was an author, Jessica
studied education at UC Berkeley and spent

ten years teaching third, fourth, and
fifth grades in public schools. Like Yumi,

Jessica lives with her family in
Southern California and can't get enough

Hot Cheetos, stand-up comedy, BTS, and Korean
barbecue. Yum yum, welcome Jessica. Thank you,

thank you for having me. You're welcome. This is a
beautiful book. All right. And last but not least,

Chrystal Giles is an own voices writer, with a
strong focus on creating stories that bring the

hopes and hurdles of African American children
to the mainstream children's book market. She

is a member of SCBWI and was selected as a 2018 We
Need Diverse Books Mentee. One of Chrystal's poems

appears in the poetry anthology, Thanku: Poems of
Gratitude. She lives with her family in Charlotte,

North Carolina. Welcome Chrystal. And this
is her book. All right, so welcome welcome.

Um I fell and I recently read all of these books.
Well I read actually um Efrén Divided quite some

time ago. I read it in arc form and I just fell in
love with Efrén, but I also fell in love with Wes

and I also fell in love with Yumi, and my book,
Land of the Cranes um, is is what we're going

to be talking about. All of these beautiful
books and so I'm so happy about that today.

And so I'm going to kick us off with some
questions um and I'm going to this first question

is going out to Jessica and Chrystal um. Both of
you, and both of your books have a really, really

strong sense of place and they fight against and
the fight against gentrification for marginalized

communities takes center stage. In Stand-up,
Yumi Chang, it is Yumi's parents Korean barbecue

restaurant having to compete with other businesses
changing in the area. And in Take Back the Block

um it is Wes's Kensington Oaks neighborhood
against a big development company trying to

buy a property. So can you tell us why you chose
these particular themes in your books? Why are

these issues vital to share with young readers?
And you can um either, one of you can start.

I'd love to start, um so I set my book Stand-up,
Yumi Chung, in Koreatown, Los Angeles where I used

to live and um Koreatown is a part of Los Angeles
going through a lot of gentrification right now

and so uh families that have owned small
businesses there for decades are having

to compete with all this money that's coming
in from transnational corporations and these,

you know, flashy restaurants are coming up. And
then now um families like Yumi's um that own

like you know the little mom and pop hole in
the wall are having to kind of um find their

feet and kind of pivot and try to survive in
this world. And so iIchose uh that setting

because this story is also about a girl in flux.
So she is 11 years old and like a lot of 11 year

olds she is in middle school and she is a little
shy and a little awkward and having a real tough

time making friends at her private snooty, private
school where she goes. And so um while she's

kind of adapting to her new environment and she's
also growing into her own passions and interests,

and in Yumi's case she's super into stand-up
comedy, she's kind of redefining herself and

trying to figure out how to um compromise what
she wants with what her immigrant Korean, Korean

immigrant parents want. And so it's this whole
collision of things um that is happening inside

of her and I thought what better place to put
this story than in Koreatown, Los Angeles where I

used to live that was also going through um just a
collision of uh traditional and modern and old and

new and um money you know and all these different
um factors that uh Yumi as an eleven-year-old has

no power um to change on her own, but it's through
her um her whole journey of finding herself,

of being her authentic self, that actually saves
the family business. So it was a perfect place and

I was so excited to write about the smells
and sights of a place I consider one of my

hometowns. So I was very very excited to
share my story. What about you, Chrystal?

I absolutely love that um. So just like you I
got really um kind of caught up in the things

happening in my local community. I'm from
Charlotte, North Carolina and it's where um

I was born and raised and I always looked at
gentrification and displacement is like a big city

thing um. My first experience with it was actually
like 10 years ago um, I was on a walking tour in

Harlem and I saw it firsthand. And then I came
home to my city which is much smaller in terms

of population, but many of the communities that
um I frequented as a young person and even areas

of town that I knew were totally changing. And I
realized it's the same thing but just on a smaller

scale. And so um over the years I've just noticed
that my local community is just changing so much

um. Just like Jessica mentioned, a lot of the mom
and pop shops are gone um, particularly though

many of the housing communities lower income inner
city um people are just being completely displaced

from their homes. And it really became an an issue
that was like really burning and um worrisome to

me and it was causing um affordable housing crisis
as well as um people um without homes you know. A

lot of housing insecurity. And so I wanted to look
at what happened to um families and the children

when you're completely displaced from where you
are and where you live. And so I thought about

this story um and it absolutely impacts young
people and families and so I thought it was a

perfect story to really explore with middle grade
um because I think at this age young people are so

aware and they understand they start to understand
what's happening outside of their doorway and how

they can be of service. And so I thought it was
perfect um. My main character Wes is a fashionable

kid and he's kind of cool and um his parents are
activists and he's not interested at all. And so

I thought it would be an interesting story to take
him out of kind of his bubble of fashion and cool

and pull him into what it's like to actually be
of service to his community. So that's kind of the

starting point and why I thought it was a perfect
place to um to explore. Yeah abso- absolutely.

I think in both in both both books um that
very middle grade um uh sense of of of shelter

is is ruptured and in threatened and so it
was it was so beautiful beautiful to to see

um.Aand and I know middle grade readers are going
to just you know really really appreciate that

because they're going to be feel seen. Because
you're right, um the housing crisis is really and

and the changes in gentrification is really really
affecting so many people across the country so.

Um Ernesto you disappeared for a minute, but here
you are, good. Um um so both of our books are are

close uh look really closely at the immigration at
the criminalization of migration, in particular,

right um. And so in your book Efrén
Divided, Efrén's sopermama, or super mom,

gets deported and um he's trying to get her back.
And in my book Land of the Cranes, Betita's father

is deported and then she and her mother are
fighting to be free from a detention center.

Very different, but still
within the umbrella of this

of the immigration issue. So um can you
tell me why it was important to write about

your particular aspect of of migration or the
criminalization of migration? Yes no for sure

that that was definitely something that was on my
mind uh when I was working on the book uh. What I

think one of the most important aspects I wanted
to to focus on was on humanizing the families.

When you criminalize immigrants and we for example
I've been thinking about this as of late and

I noticed that um there's a lot of articles
online about like immigrant families

trying to struggling come across the border and
actually dying and sometimes that would make

the mistakes of reading some of the comments and
people in the comments would usually be something

along the lines of, oh well, that's what
happens. They shouldn't be coming over,

you know, they're risking their families to come
over. And they're no longer seeing them as humans

and I think that's really just very dangerous.
So one of the things I wanted to do was to invite

people to to meet a family so they could
actually get to know them a little better

and you know and see them as actual human beings
and all. Growing up I I also didn't want people

just feeling like, can you imagine feeling you're
living in a country where you feel like you're

not wanted? And just feeling like you're a
second-class citizen and actually not even

a citizen at all uh. So I wanted to address this
for all the kids who were also feeling like that

just like Efrén uh but above all I think I just
really wanted them not to internalize. I want them

to see the beauty in their own culture um and
I want everybody else to see the beauty, too,

and so after they read both their books I'm
hoping that they'll they'll leave with the sense

of uh what an immigrant family really is like and
hopefully have a little bit of empathy as well.

Yeah yeah I think for for me in the in
the same way I was trying to to really um

expose expose the barbarity right that
for me it's just unfathomable that we are

incarcerating children for a misdemeanor.
It's a misdemeanor, it's a civil offense,

it's not even a criminal offense to be in
the United States undocumented or without

authorization. And yet we've got these modern day
concentration camps that are still pretty full,

are still pretty full even though we have had
a change in administration. So I wanted to

point to the barbarity of that and and I think
the way that that kids ask questions and they

uncover information that's new and and you
know I think that they are so good at pointing

out injustice. They're like, that's not right. And
because of their innocence innocence and because

of their kind of like very, very clear sense of a
strong sense of of morality of them having a moral

compass, um uh I you know I wanted to explore
that. And in in doing so from Betita's eyes,

this new very fresh um perspective at the
barbarity, um I was hoping to um to kind of uh

I guess expand that beyond just middle grade
readers. But I wanted families to to consider

this. And um and so yeah I think that that that's
why I chose it because it's just it was just too

tragic for me um a situation. And I wrote it
in 2018 um just as sanctuary cities, the Trump

administration was coming after sanctuary cities,
and I'm formally undocumented. I was brought over

when I was a baby and I was raised in L.A. and and
we didn't get our green cards 'til I was about 13

years old. So um I know very intimately what
it is to fear la migra, to fear you know

being deported. I know I have plenty of family
members who have been incarcerated because of

being undocumented or have been deported or have
been lost on the way you know migrating to the

United States. So all of that kind of informed
why um I wanted to to to write about this this

absurdity in criminalizing migration. And and
I'll say one last thing about that is that

that I use the metaphor of the cranes,
because cranes are these migratory birds and

and they have no borders. And why they
migrate is because they want to have

or you know wellness. They want to be well, they
want to be safe, they want food. And that's no

different from humans. And so I wanted to
point that out in that ways as well. So

um anyway all right so you know in in in
Yumi and in Wes and in Efrén and Betita,

we read characters who are intimately tied to
their families and they rely on their strong

friendships so these qualities of course are found
in many middle grade books. However I think what

is refreshing and powerful about our books is that
they do so from BIPOC lens. So can you talk about

what new information you wanted to convey
about the communities you're writing about?

Jessica, if you want to go ahead go for it?
Sure um I'll talk a little bit about that.

So my book is a deep deeply a family story, so
this story is about Yumi and like I said she's

11. And when you're 11, you're right at that age
where you're kind of realizing for the first time

that some of the stuff that your family does is
not some of the stuff that your friends families

are doing. And she is deeply embarrassed
by some of the stuff that her parents do.

And um I think I can relate to that as a as a
second generation American with immigrant parents

um. They weren't, they weren't like the huggy
kissy like Full House experience, like that's not

their language of love. And sometimes love looks
like a plate of cut fruit when you're studying

late at night and it's different it's a different
dialect of love. And so Yumi because she's 11 and

she's starting to kind of consume um kind of the
dominant ideas that society is telling her about

her family or where she comes from. She's starting
to be a little embarrassed for parents. In the

very first chapter, she's sitting at a hair salon,
she's getting her hair done, and she's feeling

so frustrated that she's uh and loves comedy, but
her mom just doesn't understand her. And she wants

her to study and she doesn't understand why her
parents can't just be like the other white parents

that she sees at school or on TV. And I think this
whole book is almost a journey of Yumi discovering

herself, her roots, what her parents and
what they've experienced and how that um

how their experiences kind of bleed into her
life. And so in a sense this uh story while it

is about comedy and it is about this whole like
um adventure of stealing someone's identity,

it's truly about her coming to kind of see her
parents and kind of understand um and value

what they've been through as immigrants in this
country and that it's not just them being you know

like obsessed with grades for no reason. There's
a reason you know when you're immigrant in this

country with no education to lean on and you're
working a blue collar job, paycheck to paycheck,

trying to feed your children. You're absolutely
going to want to give them every advantage

of education. I wanted to show Yumi and I wanted
to remind myself the beauty of that experience

and how blessed we are to have it. So uh what do
I as a BIPOC person bring to this story? Like I've

seen versions of this story and I don't know if
the creators were of the same marginalizations

of the characters, but often times like
the story becomes like, oh Yumi proves to

her parents that she's this great comedian.
And they go, I'm sorry, I should have known

you know. And then she gets this big win, but
actually that's not Yumi's story. Yumi's parents

are still who they are at the end and Yumi comes
to see that they were right, too, and that um not

it is kind of the blend of her two identities,
that strong individual American you know

side also coupled with this very collective
side of this family that uh you know really

comes together in crisis. And um the wisdom that
they have of their own experiences that gives Yumi

this kind of like 360 view of herself and I think
that's the real win. And she knows herself and

she knows her family and that they as a unit are
growing together and changing together, too. So

I think that's a perspective that we can bring
as people who um have lived this experience,

not just from the outside, but from our
own deep love of our communities. So

I'm so excited about being on this panel and
seeing all the other stories that celebrate that

same kind of tenderness. Yeah fantastic thank you
thank you, Jessica. How about uh you Chrystal? um

Jessica, I so love what you said about the
story not ending in like this perfect way. That

um Yumi was able to borrow some lessons from
her parents and vice versa. I think in my

story Take Back the Block um I think there's a
hopeful ending, but it's by no means perfect.

And I think um people of color tend to understand
that it does not end in this perfect way

right. There's always this constant um push for
more hope. So um I absolutely relate to that

um. Take Back the Block is for sure a community
story. I think just the idea of trying to

keep your home and hold on to what's yours is
automatically kind of like that community feel,

but what I love about um what i was able to create
with The Oaks um, the neighborhood that um Wes is

fighting to keep whole, is that he grew up with
these people. He grew up with his friends from

when they were very young and um over the course
of the story I try to introduce a neighborhood in

a way that the reader is fighting for the story
and and fighting for the neighborhood as well.

And so, as it kind of opens up you learn more and
more about the history than on the neighborhood

and we learned that there's a really strong tie
to Black excellence that is sometimes erased,

and particularly in this country. And um I can't
give away all of it, but it's it's a it's a direct

tie to um Black communities in this country
and how at times we were forced into a space

and there was white flight and um white people
flew away from the spaces because Black people

occupied them. And then now there's a reverse
of like, okay that area is um fashionable again,

right it's trendy, let's go back. And so there is
this very weird um quite painful reality that um

the history of Black people in this country.
And it's this constant displacement. It's not

like a one-time thing. And so that's one of
the things that the community really really

um Wes learns that, that there is a true history
in his community. And so I really wanted to

ground the story in that um. He also has these uh
incredible cast of friends that grew up with him

and he learns that his family is unique in that
they're secure and he has very supportive parents.

And he kind of envies one of his friends who kind
of has a family that's a little bit more well off

and then at some times he
pities one of his friends

who doesn't have as much as he does. And so
Wes, throughout the story, also realizes that

um the community helps each other. And I think he
struggles with that early on, but he eventually

gets it that it's truly a village. And we've got
to um hold hands and be there for each other.

Uh well my book I like to consider
my book an open garage book.

And meaning that I'd like to just open up the
garage and everybody gets to walk, come on into

the home uh. That's the way you come into my
house. And I wanted them not to not only to

see you know peeking through the window, because
I feel like when you peek in through the window,

you gotta, you get a small sampling of what the
house is like inside, but it's the clean part that

you know as we've been taking care of that we want
to be seen uh. By thinking in terms of open garage

book, I feel like you see the messiness, too, and
that's what I wanted people to see of the book,

too. So they could really get us a sense of who
the family was. When I wrote the book I knew

I just wanted to to create it as authentically
as I possibly could and I never really realized

it wasn't like I I've been hearing a lot of
students and interacting with them about the book

how many different themes were in there and
it seems like people there's a little bit for

for everybody and I think that's kind of the
the beauty that the book doesn't really focus on

what's different with our families, it's focused
more on similarities and what we have in common.

And so it's a book about friendship with David
and Efrén who are come from different backgrounds,

but you know. They love each other for if
you know. They acknowledge their differences,

but they they don't think, it's not an issue. It's
something that they just they're like brothers uh.

There's an issue of siblings uh, there's so many
kids out there right now who have younger siblings

who have to help out with them a little bit and
take care of them and do take a little bit of the

parental role, too. There's uh the character of
Lalo who's uh my attempt at breaking stereotypes.

There's a thought there's the relationship with
the mom and the father. There's a little basically

it's a little bit of everything for everybody.
So it's definitely a celebration of family.

And again it's also an attempt
to to humanize the family,

but but to really again focus on what we have in
common with everybody. I know I've I've spoken

with Jessica about this, how you could actually
interchange our parents, the moms in our stories,

and I think they would work perfectly. And you
know I mean how many of us have not haven't

been embarrassed by our moms you know while
we're uh buying clothes for for ourselves um?

Sometimes Efrén I think sees his mom at the
beginning as being overbearing and it's because

she wants to provide everything. That she feels
bad she can't provide enough for him, so the

little she can do uh she does for him, and that
comes in the way of food. And how many of us don't

have memories of our moms you know cooking special
meals for us on our birthdays or when we're sick

right? Uh and so again it's focusing on we have in
common and I think and it's been amazing because

people seem to uh connect with Efrén in so many
different ways and in so many different aspects.

Yeah absolutely um I I love this conversation. I
just love listening to you after spending so much

so much time with your books. It just it feels
like um like, that world that you created Jessica

in in in Koreatown where there was a Salvadoran
cook and called her Cipota and and you know

and the Mexican friend, and so like there's
there's this kind of you know um uh I don't know,

like just kind of multicultural experience that
I had this week, last week with the books and I

just absolutely adored. So anyway um all right
so let's let's go on. The next and the next

question I have for you guys is is a question of
of activism um. All of all of these characters um,

they take a stand. Either either it's in their
personal lives or for the greater good in their

community. And in some cases both. Um can you tell
us why it was important for your characters to

have this kind of agency, this power? Why did you
hope to communicate to readers what their about

their, what did you hope to communicate to readers
about your character's voice or their actions?

My book was more of a personal stand um.
It's a deeply family story and there's

some community in there, but for her her
biggest struggle was with herself. And so she

struggles with uh lack of confidence and so she
says this terribly witty you know funny girl,

but she is so shy that she never says any of
the jokes that live in her brain out loud. And

she you know runs away to the bathroom at lunch
time because she's afraid that she will have no

one to sit with. And so a lot of the time she's
self-rejecting and I think it has a lot to do with

the way that society celebrates a certain kind of
girl. Like if you pick up a book or watch a show,

it's the spunky you know badass girl who's like uh
you know kicking butt and like super courageous,

but what about the shy girls you know? What
about the awkward girls? Like can are they not

heroes you know? Do they not have challenges or do
they not do courageous to overcome them? And so I

really wanted to highlight you know kind of that
marginalization um and kind of that very Western

view of what a hero is. And so Yumi um ends the
story not terribly changed in how she acts. She

doesn't become super outgoing in the end. She's
not like this hysterical person at the end.

She's still her, she's just more comfortable
with who she is. And so I think um yeah in

a sense it is a very personal stand, but it
could be also um seen as like um a way to kind

of overturn of stereotypes and the way people view
us, especially Asian women are perceived to be you

know like who's favorite demure and like arigato
you know like and it's like, hey that's not all of

us, you know? And don't put us in a box and we can
be brilliant and brave in our own way? And uh yeah

for sure it's like rewriting a narrative. What
was the the term that her sister called her?

Was that a term, no? I I I I'm I should
know this because I wrote the book.

Sorry anyway but no I mean I think it is it's
powerful it's a personal um agency right. This

this this power to to overcome um that
stereotype was it's awesome it's brilliant.

How about you, Chrystal? Um I think right away
I wanted um Wes to kind of be in the center of

his story um. When I came up with a general idea,
I knew I wanted it to be um, a Black little boy

and oftentimes we don't always see um Black
people in the center of their stories and then

also being the hero of the story. And so I knew
I wanted that, but I also wanted to make sure

that it was um believable. And I knew I wanted it
to be kind of an activism agency story, but what

Wes does is very different from how his mother
does it um. She's a true community activist um.

It's in her histories and her blood. He does
it a little bit differently. He runs away

at the beginning, he just darts away. So he he
researches, he goes to the library, he studies,

he throws parties, he comes up with a different
way to really show the love of his community.

And um you know when I started, I
wrote this story in 2017 and I think

honestly even then I'm not sure people protesting
and marching was as trendy as it feels now. And I

don't know if that's the proper word, but now I
feel like um it's kind of a thing that families

go do and I think um particularly people of color
have done that for generations. It is what um

civil rights is born on right, the whole activity
of speaking out and and now it feels a bit more

trendy. And um it's great that everyone gets to
come out in families and hold signs and all that,

but I wanted to make sure that I presented
a way that you can talk about activism

that's full. And not everyone stands with signs,
right, some people do the the background work

that you don't see. And it's community
organizing and um it's organizing drives

and food jobs and clothing drives. And so
we get to see Wes do all of these things

and um that eventually gives him the full picture
of what it means to really um support and serve

your community. And those are the kind of things
I did as a young person. I was always at some type

of drive or something like that and sometimes they
were fun and sometimes I didn't want to be there.

But I think um it gave me this general idea
that that is what service looks like. And

so I wanted Wes to get that and I didn't
necessarily want it to be um in the trendy

sense that you hold a sign and you take selfies
and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm yeah, Ernesto? Um

my um my approach was is very similar uh but
to be honest I started writing Efrén Divided in

2016 during the elections and that year I had
three of my students you know let me know that um

that they had lost uh, that a parent was
taken away during the middle of the year.

And there was one particular uh, there was a
boy who asked to speak to me after school and he

comes into my classroom. I'm not sure what was on
his mind at the time he comes in. And he lets me

know that over the weekend they took his father
away. And I was devastated because as a teacher

you kind of we all want to be able to offer some
advice and to help kids and quite honestly I was

at a loss of words. And I didn't really know what
I could do for this for this boy um. And so when

I was writing Efrén Divided, part of the message
I wanted to do was, okay how, what message do I

have for this boy? Um and I wanted to, the thing
I wanted to give him was hope. And and I wanted

to make sure the story was going to be believable,
but you know going back to the whole um when you

write books uh with people of color, we don't
always get that Disney ending that everybody

kind of gets in most books. It's a little bit
different for us. And so I wanted to make sure

the book was realistic, but I also wanted to help
the people. And I wanted, I didn't want him to

feel helpless. And so for all the kids like like
who are going through situations like Efrén's,

I think the biggest thing I could do for
them is let them know that they weren't alone

uh. In the book, Efrén takes on the burden of
every, all the responsibilities that Amá had

before she was taken away. He puts, he places
them on a shoulder. And um and I think that's

the message I want them to know, that you're not
alone in this. That there are teachers out there,

there's counselors, there's a whole bunch of
people in the community that are out there,

there's authors you know who are writing books
about this. And and uh you know and we're trying

to help and we're trying to make a difference and
I guess that's what it is. That there is a support

group for you out there. You're not by yourself
and that you can make a difference, too. Yeah

that's beautiful. Well for for me in Land of the
Cranes, Betita is a poet. She learns how to draw

pictures and accompany them with poems and she
calls them picture poems or crane poems. And she

has this practice from school and inside
the detention center, she teaches others

how to do these picture poems. And those go viral
and that helps change um the situation inside this

detention center along with a hunger strike
and other things. So it's a very sad story,

it's a very sad story, um but but in
that I wanted children to understand

that that they have agency through the arts. That
they can write, they can draw pictures, they can

you know organize um hunger strikes
or any kind of uh in community um

to to you know make a change a positive
change and and towards liberation and freedom

and justice. So I was definitely trying to show
readers that they have not only um ideas, but they

have power in their voice and their creative
um endeavors, whatever that may be. And so

um that was that was the hope with with uh Land of
the Cranes um. I think we still have time to talk

about craft can we talk about craft a little bit
is that okay I love I love to talk about craft.

And as BIPOC, we never get asked about craft.
So let's talk about craft um because writing

books like these are um it it requires a certain
skill set. So Jessica I'll start with you um.

In your book, which is hilarious, it's so
full of comedy, it's folded in so wonderfully

um, can you tell us what kind of research you had
to do to get this element to be pitch perfect? Oh,

thank you. I'm so honored to hear that um I don't
always hear that. It's really good to hear that

because I am not a comedian. I am just a writer
and uh originally, I mean this story was always

about that second generation experience. So in the
first form it was actually a YA novel in the very,

very first iteration. And it was a young adult
novel with this teenager, this girl her name was

Minji and she wanted to be a chef and she lies
and goes to culinary school instead of college

and it was like this whole thing that I queried,
and you know ultimately got rejected. And so

it didn't make it. It didn't see the light of day
um, but uh I got some feedback from a literary

agent who challenged me to see it as a middle
grade novel. He said ,you know your voice is

reading a little young and I was like, could it
be that I taught third, fourth, and fifth grade

for ten years and I have two tweens at home? I
don't know, like I don't know what I was doing in

YA in the first place, but anyway um. As I kind of
re-uh imagined the story, I still wanted that that

that clash. I still wanted her to confront her
her two sides of who she is. But then I kind of

couldn't do the chef thing with 11. It just didn't
quite work. And so um the question became, what is

the Asian parent's worst nightmare? And it's like
for your kids to be comedian um. Yes at the time

uh Ali Wong was huge and on Netflix. I went to
go see her. I got tickets to see her live here

in San Diego and I was just floored. I'm like,
I think I'm older than Ali Wong, but I was like

in tears at the end being like, I want to be
like Ali when I grow up because she was just so

fully authentically herself. She wasn't catering
to anybody and she was just being herself. And

I always just kind of wondere, months afterwards
like, what was she like as a child. And it kind of

birthed this whole um new idea which turned into
Stand-up, Yumi Chung. So comedy was a big part

of it. But I'm not a comedian and so I had to do
a lot of research. Comedy is done really through

a lot of voice and face and like there's a whole
lot to it, but words on a page, it's it's really

difficult to get those big laughs that uh same
way. So it took many drafts and for even 'til the

very end, it was like "funny thing here" you know,
like "joke here" parentheses. I'll figure it out

later. And so we would have to just like rehash
and I have actually, you could see it behind me in

my notebooks, and one of them is filled with jokes
that never made it in the book. So it's definitely

lots of trial and error um and so uh hopefully I
made some readers laugh a few times. But even if I

didn't, I don't really care as long as I made you
feel like you're you know Yumi and her family then

I would say missioned accomplished, so yeah. Thank
you, absolutely absolutely mission accomplished,

so funny. Um all right so um Chrystal and Ernesto,
you both wrote Black and Brown boys and right

now Black and Brown boys nationally are being
demonized and they have the highest incarceration

rates um. And so you both wrote, Chrystal, you
wrote Wes and Ernesto, you wrote Efrén in such

sensitive and with such depths. I I really loved
both those boys so so much. And I want to know,

what was your greatest challenge in writing them
so beautifully vis-a-vis what we see in the media?

Um you know I have a, I have a son and um
he's five, so he's not quite in the middle

grade age range, but he's a Black boy and
unfortunately he's already um experienced

bias and um what I would absolutely call racism.
And so that's a tough tough thing. And so

I think the best thing we can do is make um
Black and Brown boys feel full and realized.

And I wanted to do that on the page. And so
I layered Wes, um and it took many many edits

for him to feel full. And so I wanted him
to, first he was very stylish and a little

bit selfish and a little bit arrogant, and then
um he's kind of nerdy because he likes puzzles.

He also is cool um, he also has a little bit
of jealousness um. And so all of these layers

are what Black boys don't always get the
benefit of right? Like we're complex then

we're layered and our children are, too. We
also we usually get this singular narrative

and it is often a negative singular narrative.
And we don't get a chance to make mistakes and

mess up over and over. Because that's what young
people, do they mess up. And I wanted him to have

an arc where he's not the greatest kid in
the beginning in terms of um being self-aware

and he's a little arrogant, but he gets it. And
so I wanted to layer him and that was challenging

at times because um it takes a while to build a
character that feels complex. But we are complex.

And we we should get the benefit of being complex.
So um I love when people tell me he feels real

because that's like that's all I wanted. I wanted
him to feel like a kid you know who has a really

cool haircut and really cool sneakers and all of
those things that um are important to young boys,

but then I also wanted him to feel real
enough that you'll accept him, too. So yeah

well there was there was a preciousness about
the way his family treated him you know because

he was an only child. And that that also felt
very special and um also how Kari was treated

and and brought in you know because the so
that the idea of family and taking care of

their young Black boys was not just about their
internal family, but kind of an extended family.

Which I thought was really beautiful and I'm
actually getting a little bit emotional because

because I think that that's such a necessary
part of of kind of like the general healing

that we need um to show our youth. Um these
kind of so. I'm glad you said that. Kari,

Kari is in my heart. He touched me um
in the same way that Wes did and um

many times part of the story got edited out and
I kept putting it back in. And so um that that

is what I think community is, particularly
um communities of color. We bring people in

and Kari's story was one that Wes learned from and
oftentimes not enough readers, and the book hasn't

been out long, but not enough readers connect
that. But I find that readers of color connected

and that's so important to me because I love
him so much and I love his story and I think

um his story isn't one that's always told because
it's less glamorous or he's less likable um.

So. But no less valuable. Absolutely. Valuable
and has as much potential as. Absolutely precious,

yes yes. Yeah for sure. Ernesto, what about
you? Efrén is just uh I just he's a love,

he's just a big big heart. So how how did you,
what was your biggest challenge in writing him?

Um, so um the biggest challenge was well, first
of all I wanted to make sure my character was

accessible to everybody. That was really difficult
to be honest. This is a really tricky question for

me to answer because for 14 years I always uh I
was always being rejected for for uh by editors,

and the same, I was always hearing the
same thing: we don't connect with your

character. And I wasn't sure as an author if
it's because my character was a Latino boy

and they just weren't connecting for that reason
and I always questioned myself. Am I, is it,

isn't it my job to make sure people connect to
the characters? And so I felt my I I was kind of,

I wasn't sure how to approach it um. And not
that I have an answer um, but what I decided

to d,o because this book wasn't really made to
be published, it was just for myself and for my

students in my classroom, it wasn't that wasn't
the purpose of it um. I just wrote the way it was

so I kind of embodied I took a little bit of my
son's personality and he's such a kind person and

I was telling my kids the only requirement I have
of them is that they be they grow up to become

good people. And that's it, and I will be proud of
them no matter what else they do with their lives.

As long as you're good people. You you I'm going
to be more than happy um. He's a good role model.

Thank you, but I I definitely I mean there were
things that that I struggled with um. I usually

used to work right in the first pers- first
person point of view and for reference to make

them a little bit more accessible, I actually
had to go down to the to go change it over to

a third-person point of view uh. So we don't get
to hear him speak exactly like he does, like he

normally would. We also don't get to hear the mom
speak all the Spanish as she would. So there's

certain things that we had you know we have to do
to change it uh. The people if if the other mom in

the story spoke exclusively in Spanish, I think
that would not they wouldn't work for the story.

Um so there's a lot of little things that are that
are kind of tricky uh. I just discovered the other

day that um when my my one of my my characters
she says that the mom used to make delicious mole,

but mole in English, reads like
mole. And so I I didn't catch that

until somebody brought it up and they're like,
you eat moles? And and I was like wait what?

uh so it you know, it's tricky uh writing
a character like this was definitely um

I just tried to channel my son and I
kept asking myself, what would my son do?

And also as a teacher I've known so many
kids are so amazing and see the boys

sometimes see the boys and they have their
arms around each other. And they and they lack

that toxic masculinity sometimes and we we never
really talk about how sensitive boys can be, too,

um. And I've seen enough of that too and that
was my son and I just wanted to bring in all the

the the best parts of them. Uh not to say that
they're perfect. I also wanted to make him have

his flaws, but I that that was worrisome too.
I'm like, what happens if I make him you know

too flawed? And I know that as a writer we want
our characters to grow, but I had to also limit

that because I was thinking, this is a kid of color,
I have to be careful how unlikable I make them too.

It was definitely a balancing act, but at the end
of the day every time I had a question in my mind

I just pretty much ask myself, well what
what would my son do in in this situation?

Which is really hard to do because I'm a
method writer so I always just embody whoever

whatever the characters are and I try and
feel what they're feeling at that moment.

And I gotta tell you, tormenting the
way I tormented Efrén in the story

was tormenting my son, and and and that was
really painful, and I really struggled with it.

And same with Amá and all the other characters . It
was the most difficult book I've ever written for

sure. Yeah yeah you know so you said something that
that kind of made me realize that you know you

all have mentioned, that none of our books have
this very cute tight bow at the end and super

super happy. Like in the Land of the Cranes I'm uh,
Betita's family is essentially, they voluntarily

um deport, they self-deport, um and so she doesn't
get to stay in you know in her home where

and so, but so I was thinking about how we all have
these like not perfect endings and and how often a

lot of our work uh because we're writing from
communities who are historically marginalized,

the the there is a personal um challenge, but the
world will always see us as "other." We'll see is

this Black or Asian or Brown you know and Latinx
and and you can't you can't take that off you know,

like you know you you walk with that reality. It's
in our voices, it's in our faces and it's our skin

right. So anyway I just and in some ways you know
you have to kind of empathize with your characters

and not like you know like not treat them too too
badly because our kids have it tough you know. And

and it's it's not usually, and so like to make them
flawed, incredibly flawed, is hard, because the world

is hard on them you know, but and it's not for
no fault of their own. So anyway I it was just a

thought that I was thinking about um and you know.
I wanted to share a little bit of of craft around

Land of the Cranes if I may um. I wrote it in verse. My book is a novel in verse and it's basically um

a string of poems tied together from a beginning
to end. And um and I wrote it because Betita is a

poet. And she um and so I wanted to kind of mimic
that. And when I first wrote the the first 30 pages

um, she came as a poet like without a doubt
and and her world view and and I had a lot of

of I wouldn't say fun, but yeah it's a little
bit of fun writing into that poetry and in the

way that children um right you know are naturally
wordsmiths right if you look. There's this um this

poet Piri Thomas who is now gone, but he's afr-
uh Puerto Rican and he he said every child is

born a poet. And I really believe this. I think kids
have this really funky way of looking and looking

at the world and saying things. If you if you have
children you know they say things so cute and you

don't ever want them to change the way they say
because they invent language and so I kind of like

really um monopolized on on that aspect
of poetry. And then also of course the the

metaphor of the crane and the migration
of all species that that is so natural.

Um anyway well I we have to wrap up um and this
has been so lovely uh to to spend time with you,

but before we go, I want to ask you one final
question um. I want to know if you have a message,

what message um, if you had one message to
give to your readers, what would that be?

I'll start really quick. I'm going
to answer that question, too, but um

I'm a method writer also and I was so tortured
and I felt so bad for Yumi that I gave her a dog.

Like halfway through the story a dog appeared. And
I was like, she needs somebody. It's just too rough.

She's all alone. So anyway I gave her a dog um and
uh if I were to give a message to my readers, it's

just that simply you are enough, as you are. You
are enough and I'm getting a little emotional um,

the community that you come from, your
parents, who you are. It is beautiful and

precious and even if other people are telling
you otherwise you need to know for yourself.

Now I'm getting emotional. I heard it, I
heard it. That's a message for me, too.

Chrystal? Um you know I I think I
would say that um your voice matters,

um your community matters, your issues matter,
the things that um you're passionate about, you

get to use your voice to speak up about, um if
it matters to you. You get to say it out loud.

I think oftentimes um only certain things
are brought to the forefront. So we get we

should be able to talk about um our joys, our
sorrows, our hopes and hurdles and all of it. So

um I I guess I would just say use your voice,
speak up, speak out, um and your voice matters.

Thank you um for me I think it would be that

for kids like Efrén, I just want them to know that
they're not alone and that you have a community

uh to lean on and that there's a lot of people
out here uh wanting to help you and to give you

offer support uh and you don't have to take on
the burden by yourself. And that there is. Yeah.

And for me I would say um that if you look at
Betita, who was able to find a way to use her

poetry and her art in the most difficult of
circumstances, that you too can find a way to

lift yourself out of that darkness um with with
your light. So um so that's what my message would

be. Ah big breath. This has been so emotional and
so beautiful. I've had um a tremendous amount of

you know just amazement and love
and respect for everything that you

all have have brought to the middle grade
space and literature. Thank you so much um

and thank you to the Bronx Book
Festival for having this conversation.

It was my honor to to moderate. Thank you so much
everyone and I hope you stay safe and blessed.