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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,200 Vincenzo Muccioli's fate is hanging by a cassette tape. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,040 A cassette tape just like this one, 3 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:16,040 containing a conversation recorded in a car 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,840 between the founder of San Patrignano and Walter Delogu, 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,160 his former driver, who's now become his principal accuser. 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,720 I'd decided to leave San Patrignano, 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,920 because I knew that things weren't going well. 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,800 I knew so many things. 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,720 I'd told Tiziana that I wanted to find proof, 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,520 to draw information and reveal who Vincenzo really was. 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,200 I set up a tape recorder, 12 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,520 and I put it under his car seat. 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,960 He sat beside me in the car while I was driving. 14 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,640 It was within touching distance. 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:09,000 All I had to do was this. 16 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,360 When I started recording, I felt uneasy. 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,080 But I didn't have a choice. 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,560 My father understood that Muccioli wasn't the same person 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,360 that he'd relied on in the past. 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,800 So he decided to record him because he was afraid. 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,800 The situation was delicate, 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,880 because we had decided to leave. 23 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,520 At that point, I was scared 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,040 of Vincenzo's powerful friends. 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,840 How could I know how far he was willing to go? 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,800 At that moment, he became a family man 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,160 willing to do anything to protect his daughter and his wife. 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,760 Before leaving, I told him, 29 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,840 "If you treat me unfairly or hurt me, I've taken precautions." 30 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,840 I pressed play and played him the whole tape. 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,440 And he said, "You recorded me?" 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,520 And I said, "Of course. And do you know why? 33 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,880 Because I want to live my life 34 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,880 with my wife and my daughter peacefully. 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,440 But I'll never ever use this tape. 36 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,960 I'll bury it in a drawer. 37 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,400 But be aware, if anything happens to me, 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,800 I will use it." 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,520 So that's what I did. 40 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,520 Why? To save my own life. 41 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,640 It was Robertino Assirelli who told them about the tape. 42 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,480 He spoke with a journalist, and he said, 43 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,360 "There's someone who's been with him these past years, 44 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,720 and he knows everything because he was with him day and night." 45 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:15,800 And he gave my name. 46 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,280 A witness launches strong accusations against the founder of San Patrignano. 47 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,160 Robertino challenged the power structure. 48 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,440 Roberto Assirelli has testified in court that Walter Delogu, 49 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,800 his close friend, told him that after the Maranzano murder, 50 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,320 he'd secretly recorded a conversation between him and the commune leader. 51 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,240 The police came looking for me and arrested me. 52 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,440 They knew that I knew everything. 53 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,640 Walter Delogu has been arrested. 54 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,840 The tape is now in the hands of the public prosecutor. 55 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,720 A tape has emerged… 56 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,560 -What's on the tape? -I don't know. 57 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,160 Did he maybe misunderstand something you said? 58 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,160 I don't know. Once I listen to it, 59 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,400 I'll know, and I can give a logical explanation. 60 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,160 Otherwise-- it's just speculation. 61 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,560 Walter was Vincenzo Muccioli's driver for four years, 62 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,280 always in his white trench coat, with his Blues Brothers' shades and guns. 63 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,000 He was his bodyguard, his very faithful assistant. 64 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:21,680 So it really surprised me. 65 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,280 But I also admired him. 66 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,520 When they played the tape during the trial, 67 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,720 the silence was… embarrassing. 68 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,800 Because the other side of Vincenzo emerged. 69 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,400 Why did he ask me to kill Grizzardi? 70 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,920 Because Grizzardi was one of the witnesses to Maranzano's murder, 71 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,200 and he was dangerous to the commune. 72 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,680 Muccioli, did you recognize the tape? 73 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,000 I've never seen that tape. 74 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,320 We heard "strychnine, heroin." 75 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,400 Do you remember saying those things? 76 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,600 "We should get two grams of heroin, some strychnine. 77 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,240 Make it look like an overdose." 78 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,560 These are Vincenzo Muccioli's own words. 79 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,560 Delogu recorded that tape illegally. 80 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,320 What do I think of someone like that? Two things. 81 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,760 The first is, "This guy is biting the hand that feeds him." 82 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:09,920 But in reality, 83 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,160 he's the man who reveals the facts to the whole of Italy. 84 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,560 Delogu's tape became headline news, 85 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,840 because it was carefully conducted 86 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,360 and placed in a specific media and legal setting 87 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,640 as a top story, a high-profile public opinion piece 88 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,040 which tried to portray Muccioli as an absolute monster. 89 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,840 Muccioli, a symbol of repression… 90 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,760 "A heroin and strychnine overdose." 91 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,880 …the terrible words that sounded like a death sentence. 92 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,120 He spoke of shooting him or giving him an overdose… 93 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,560 …he ordered the murder. 94 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,800 Intrigue and blood at San Patrignano. A massacre in Muccioli's house. 95 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,840 That tape was a turning point, 96 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,560 and the press went crazy over it 97 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,560 with the living proof that Muccioli, 98 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,120 the presumed savior, 99 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,640 was actually ordering the death of certain people. 100 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,280 Should we be suspicious or trustful? 101 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,960 Questions arise once more about San Patrignano. 102 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,400 The media were completely against him. 103 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,360 He'd become an accomplice of murders or even a murderer himself. 104 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:22,960 A monster. 105 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,600 Claudio Sabelli Fioretti, editor of Cuore, 106 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,880 doesn't have a positive opinion on San Patrignano. 107 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,280 -Who is Muccioli? -He's undoubtedly crazy. 108 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:32,800 A dangerous madman. 109 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,720 That was San Patrignano's biggest crisis. 110 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,080 One minute they raise you to the stars, 111 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,920 the next, you're a criminal. 112 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,000 SAINT OR KILLER? 113 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,880 When the tape turned up, recorded by Walter Delogu, 114 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,400 we realized that this could be… 115 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,800 the final blow to Vincenzo Muccioli. 116 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:03,760 But it never happened. 117 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Vincenzo Muccioli claimed to have been blackmailed by Walter Delogu. 118 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,320 Tense and nervous. "I'm not a killer," says Muccioli. 119 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,600 "In the car, Delogu was provoking me 120 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,480 and in order to see what he was up to, I played along." 121 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:30,040 Vincenzo Muccioli says that his words have been twisted. 122 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,560 He claims that he was half-asleep. 123 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,480 Muccioli claims he was half-asleep when he said those words. 124 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,160 He wasn't sleeping. 125 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,360 Muccioli realized he was being provoked, 126 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,400 and he wanted to know what was behind it. 127 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,120 What was the aim of this provocation? 128 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,160 To see 129 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,960 how much was still present… 130 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:01,120 of the self-indulgent rebel, 131 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,880 the fake, petty, fascist thug inside him. 132 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,680 I saw Vincenzo 133 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,040 on all the TV channels: Italia 1, Rai 2, Rai 3, Rai 1… 134 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,480 bad-mouthing me all over Italy. 135 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:20,920 We received severance pay requests. 136 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,880 We were blackmailed, threatened, 137 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,920 by a guy who, after many years living there, 138 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,320 left with his wife and kid who he raised there. 139 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,920 We paid for school fees, clothes, a house, 140 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,720 water, electricity, and gas bills… 141 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,040 It was a devious ploy to say, 142 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,200 "He's an addict, a traitor, he's stupid." 143 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,520 People believed him, but it isn't like that. 144 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:49,520 I paid 150 million lire to prevent a worse outcome, 145 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,720 to protect the guys who were still there. 146 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,960 I've waited years to tell my version of the truth. 147 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Do you know what it is? 148 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,400 I simply told him, "You said you'd give me money. 149 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,520 I have a wife and a daughter. 150 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,440 I know what it's like to leave the commune penniless. 151 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,640 It means having no work and living on the margins." 152 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,600 He said, "Here's the money. 153 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:19,600 You're right. I made a promise, and I wasn't keeping it. Here it is." 154 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,440 When he asked me for money to… 155 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,800 to stop, to… 156 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,280 He took out this tape and said, "I can get you," etc. 157 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:32,600 And I gave it to him. 158 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,200 To me, it seemed the lesser evil. 159 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:36,680 Vincenzo said, 160 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,920 "I gave him money to keep him quiet, and not harm the commune." 161 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,680 I didn't commit any crime, he just gave it to me. 162 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,720 He owed me that money for everything I'd done for him. 163 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,720 There was absolutely no blackmail. 164 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,800 Who is Delogu? What he did speaks for itself about who he is. 165 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,840 -A brief comment about the tape? -None. It's a flop. 166 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,800 Walter Delogu, Muccioli's former driver, is under investigation for extortion. 167 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,720 "It's blackmail," claimed Muccioli. 168 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,280 But the case could be dismissed. 169 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,840 Delogu's tape is a joke, 170 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,520 worthy of the person who made up this joke. 171 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,360 You have no idea how many times I heard my father talking about killing. 172 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:29,120 "We should grab her, put her in acid 173 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,400 and melt her, and then--" 174 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,840 I mean, ever since I was a kid. 175 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,440 It never bothered me. Why? 176 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,120 Because I knew very well that my father-- 177 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,640 He joked and said overblown things. 178 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,080 He loved hyperbole. 179 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,760 He was that type of guy. 180 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:59,000 In the end, that tape, however terrible it made Muccioli look, 181 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,400 from a legal point of view, it was a little… weak. 182 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,560 Walter possibly came across as a manipulator. 183 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,760 The tape played in the Rimini courtroom doesn't prove anything. 184 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,080 The prosecutor, Franco Battaglino, has announced 185 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,240 that Delogu's tape won't be used as evidence in this trial. 186 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,840 I'm judging this incident 187 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,640 as one which took place at a given time and place 188 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,920 in specific personal and environmental circumstances, etc. 189 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,680 Muccioli got what he wanted, 190 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,520 which was clarifying what may have happened. 191 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,640 But, of course, it has no criminal relevance. 192 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,880 The trial is a serious matter. 193 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,800 So, now, let's go to trial. 194 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,120 Let's analyze the facts… 195 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,520 objectively, calmly, without any preconceptions… 196 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,160 After the infamous tape, 197 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,040 the Vincenzo Muccioli trial could hold more surprises. 198 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,120 Punishment can play a part in rehab. 199 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,240 The problem is the measure, the how. 200 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,240 In regard to the Maranzano case, 201 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,400 according to the investigators, 202 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,800 these violent methods weren't just occasional, 203 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,000 but structural. 204 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,600 Muccioli knew exactly how the butchery sector worked. 205 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,560 It was considered a punitive sector. 206 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,480 Our intention was to uphold the law. 207 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,560 Therefore, abusing, beating, and killing 208 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,240 are clearly not acceptable forms of punishment. 209 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,080 New, serious accusations against Vincenzo Muccioli. 210 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,880 Initially accused of aiding and abetting, 211 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,800 he's now accused of manslaughter. 212 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,080 I was convinced that Muccioli was most accountable for 213 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,800 having sent Maranzano to a punitive sector. 214 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,600 The judge, Vincenzo Andreucci, holds him responsible 215 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,640 for having set up a punitive sector, 216 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,360 and tolerating the physical and psychological violence committed there 217 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,080 and for placing at its head, Alfio Russo, an emotionally disturbed man 218 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,040 believed to be the perpetrator of the homicide. 219 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,040 The judiciary had to investigate Muccioli for manslaughter 220 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,040 because Muccioli was responsible 221 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,160 for everything that happened in San Patrignano. 222 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,200 Because if, as I've always claimed, a few slaps are sometimes necessary, 223 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,800 and then I make someone else do the slapping, 224 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,120 and say I don't want to know about it. That's probably what happened. 225 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:48,120 Because in prisons, in secluded places, in totalitarian institutions, 226 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,120 these things happen. There's someone who does the dirty work, 227 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,200 and those in power don't want to know about it. 228 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,400 The judicial concerns aren't over for Vincenzo Muccioli. 229 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,000 At the Rimini police station, 230 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,120 the parade of former guests making new accusations continues. 231 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Walter Delogu, his former driver and author of the infamous recording, 232 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,720 was the first of many to give a voluntary statement. 233 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,600 I was just a bodyguard, a pathetic ex-junkie. 234 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,560 While he was this great saint protecting the world. 235 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Strong accusations from Delogu, not made out of resentment, he says, 236 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,880 or hate towards Muccioli, but only for the sake of truth. 237 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:34,000 Now people have started to speak out about certain events… 238 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,400 that were never mentioned before. 239 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,880 When I saw Walter Delogu on TV saying, 240 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,920 "Any witnesses out there, come forward," 241 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,480 I realized that-- 242 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:51,160 by keeping quiet, I would be obeying a secret code of silence. 243 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,560 The first thing I did after I left was to go and see the judge, 244 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,320 and I testified… 245 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,040 about the Maranzano case and other things. 246 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:11,640 I had witnessed some murky situations within the commune. 247 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,080 When the Maranzano case exploded, 248 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,520 I was called in and questioned by the prosecutor, 249 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,440 and I told him what I knew. 250 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,520 Natalia Berla died after she jumped out of a window in 1989. 251 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,640 Her brother questions the circumstances of her death. 252 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,800 I know she was violently beaten up the night before, 253 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,640 so I have suspicions over the circumstances of my twin's death. 254 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,280 Aldo Toffoli, 41, former guest at San Patrignano, 255 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,520 may reveal several more punitive sectors operating at San Patrignano. 256 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,880 An unexpected statement from the public prosecutor, Battaglino, 257 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,120 "Muccioli must be tried in a higher court 258 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,600 for the serious crime of perpetrating abuse which caused death." 259 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,760 But the court has declared 260 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,800 that the Code doesn't allow for a change in charges at this stage. 261 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,640 "An abnormal decision," claimed the prosecutor. 262 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,960 "The right decision," stated Muccioli's defense. 263 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:16,640 The Rimini judiciary went door-to-door looking for former guests, 264 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,760 often leveraging their criminal records, 265 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,680 and coercing them to testify 266 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,640 that my father was a violent, abusive person. 267 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,920 It was a witch hunt. 268 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,200 They sought out former guests of San Patrignano 269 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,880 and tried to persuade them to make statements 270 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:43,400 supporting the theory that violence was the curative system in San Patrignano. 271 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,000 Do you think the judges are conspiring against you? 272 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,680 I'm not talking about the judges 273 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,480 but about all these guys coming forward, they need to be checked. 274 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,160 What they say needs to be verified. 275 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,480 I experienced those methods for 16 years, 276 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,000 and I used to agree with them. 277 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,280 I'd like to thank Vincenzo 278 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,520 for giving me my life back 279 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,160 and for teaching me so much. 280 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,480 Some people were locked up for as long as a year. 281 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,680 At the time, I was one of those locking people up. I was a guard. 282 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,480 I went after the runaways to bring them back. 283 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,720 I believe that everything I experienced in those years… 284 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,080 wasn't right. 285 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,040 Weaving was a punitive sector. 286 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:38,880 During tricky moments, these women were overseen by a man. 287 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,400 His name was Michelone. 288 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,360 He was very violent all the time. 289 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,480 If he was called to weaving, 290 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,440 it was only to beat someone up. 291 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,480 The testimonies of violence perpetrated within the commune have multiplied. 292 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,280 Today, the judge heard Laura's voluntary statement. 293 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:02,280 She testified to the violence of which she was victim and witness to 294 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:07,120 in maintenance, a punitive sector, according to several witnesses. 295 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,760 Punitive sectors exist. 296 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:14,360 I was a victim myself while I was there only because I dared to criticize them. 297 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,600 I was placed in the most authoritarian sector where the means were-- 298 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,640 -Which one? -Maintenance. 299 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,640 In the maintenance sector, you couldn't just walk in. 300 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,240 It was supervised by these guys, 301 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,640 who were a sort of internal police force. 302 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,080 I was in maintenance when it was run by Francesco Capogreco. 303 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:41,480 He was evil. 304 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,840 Franchino Capogreco. 305 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,080 There are many stories of rape during his management of maintenance. 306 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,280 When I was in the restoration sector, 307 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,640 there was a girl who came from the maintenance sector, 308 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,680 that I'd seen a few times with a black eye. 309 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,880 One day, we were working together in the office, 310 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,360 and Vincenzo arrived, 311 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,000 and she asked him if they could talk urgently. 312 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,880 And she said, "Vincenzo, you need to help me because… 313 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,600 I'm being abused in the maintenance sector." 314 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:19,000 And he said, "I'm not sure I believe you." 315 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,640 He removed his ring and he put it on the table, 316 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,240 and said, "Try to put your finger in the ring. 317 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,120 See? Try again. 318 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,240 Try again." 319 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,480 Try to put the pencil through the ring. 320 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,640 No, I'll hold the pen, you hold the ring. 321 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,440 -Here. Please, put it on. -I can't if you keep moving the pen… 322 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,400 You see? With regards to violence, 323 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,680 if a woman moves, it's difficult to put the ring on. 324 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,880 Maintenance was a sector located in the only house 325 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,680 with a fence of three to four meters around it. 326 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,480 It's not true that there are fences at San Patrignano. 327 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,320 There have never been any. 328 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,000 Fabio, strangely, this fence 329 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,680 topped with barbed wire 330 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,480 looks like one of those fences found in concentration camps. 331 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,120 There are other fences like this in San Patrignano. 332 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:30,680 But it doesn't mean it's a punitive sector as the newspapers are claiming. 333 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,600 Maintenance is very important to us, 334 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,560 because it's the place that welcomes the new arrivals. 335 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,080 The way I was speaking started to show some awkwardness. 336 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,920 I wanted to believe in what I was saying, 337 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,160 but you can hear that... 338 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,080 I wanted to say something different. 339 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,040 That was the beginning of my crisis regarding my role. 340 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,360 The media were pressing us 341 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,320 to give answers to some very serious issues. 342 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:12,840 I knew that at San Patrignano there were sectors… 343 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,520 which were tougher. 344 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,840 Maintenance and the butchery. 345 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720 I didn't know, and I couldn't imagine that… 346 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,600 inside there, beatings were like… 347 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,400 well, almost a daily occurrence. 348 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,320 There is no such thing as a punitive sector. 349 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,680 I've never punished anyone here. I don't need to. 350 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,880 Vincenzo Muccioli and his family 351 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,400 claimed that punitive sectors didn't exist. 352 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,320 -Is there violence at San Patrignano? -Absolutely not. 353 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,760 There's as much as in your house when your kids fight, if you have any, 354 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,320 as much as in army barracks and everywhere else. 355 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Violence is wherever humans are. 356 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,040 I was the sole doctor at San Patrignano for quite a few years. 357 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,480 And I think that if the working method was violence, 358 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 I would have treated many people with injuries. 359 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,720 And I can assure you that this wasn't the case. 360 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,960 I love Antonio Boschini very much because I think he's a good man. 361 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,680 But I remember someone, and I won't mention names, 362 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,080 whose head was smashed by Mandingo. 363 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,120 He smashed it against a corner of the bunk beds. 364 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,600 I will never forget that scene. 365 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,360 He was stitched up in our hospital 366 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,080 either by Antonio Boschini 367 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,720 or by another doctor who was on shift that day. 368 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,240 But how can you tell me, 369 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,920 someone who was there for three and a half years, 370 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,720 that there were no beatings, there was no violence, no fear? 371 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,480 I challenge anyone 372 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,720 to tell me 373 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,520 if ever, inside here, 374 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,680 there have been punitive squads 375 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,160 and abusers. 376 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,480 Where are they? 377 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:07,920 Nowhere! 378 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:09,960 Where are they? 379 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,040 With the Roberto Maranzano homicide, 380 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:16,120 we tried to hide behind the theory of the "loose cannon." 381 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,960 Wherever there are people, there can be a loose cannon! 382 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,840 That's human nature! 383 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,800 As if to say… 384 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,280 "Let's confine this serious event to one singular, unforeseen instance." 385 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,480 But I knew it wasn't like that. I could feel it wasn't true. 386 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,000 Something had gone wrong in the evolution of San Patrignano. 387 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,760 It had something to do with Vincenzo's personality. 388 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,600 He was an extraordinary man, but he was also a megalomaniac. 389 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:56,000 Fabio Cantelli, how do you explain the allegations against Muccioli? 390 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,640 Superficiality, cynicism, people's morbid need… 391 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,360 to see a man praised to the stars one day 392 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,240 and fall to the ground the next. 393 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,160 The gap progressively widened between… 394 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,040 the idea I had of San Patrignano according to my personal experience, 395 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,320 and the image I had to promote 396 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,360 as head of the press office. 397 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000 I had a crisis. 398 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,760 On the one hand, I had feelings for Vincenzo, 399 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,680 and on the other hand… 400 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,440 I couldn't… 401 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,840 I couldn't just… 402 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,040 lie. 403 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,040 I couldn't be a megaphone for the propaganda. 404 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,320 Fabio, how long have you been working closely with Muccioli? 405 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,720 It's been about three years. 406 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,560 I felt like the showcase "former junkie," 407 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,160 because I knew how to speak and I had a good guy's face. 408 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,880 They'd say, "How is it possible that he was a junkie? 409 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,920 They perform miracles in there!" 410 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,480 This is a terrible moment for us, and we don't know when it'll end. 411 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,600 I hope it'll lead to some changes. 412 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,200 At the worst moment for San Patrignano, 413 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,880 while everything was blowing up, Letizia Moratti was there. 414 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,000 Letizia Brichetto Moratti is the new head of RAI. 415 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,960 Letizia Moratti, the elegant, reserved, Milanese businesswoman, 416 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,440 was unanimously nominated as CEO by the board of directors. 417 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,760 In Italy, usually, a change of political majority 418 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,720 is followed by a change of management at the state TV, RAI. 419 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,760 Berlusconi put together his government. 420 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,240 Do you want to continue with a government 421 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,280 which is a permanent hostage to extreme left-wing Communists? 422 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,320 The CEO of RAI and I 423 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,040 have been friends for over 20 years… 424 00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,400 Muccioli had paid a high toll 425 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,200 because the media had been attacking him. 426 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,240 So having someone he trusted at RAI, 427 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,680 who knew San Patrignano well, 428 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,040 was really important to him. 429 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,240 Letizia is a sensible and intelligent woman, 430 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,080 and she knew that if she used her power, 431 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,440 she would have been accused of conflict of interest. 432 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,960 But I can honestly say 433 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,840 that she got favors that she didn't even need to ask for. 434 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,520 I saw a large number of journalists from RAI in those years, 435 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,760 visiting San Patrignano 436 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,080 with the sole intention of reporting 437 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,520 only praise and appreciation for the marvelous commune 438 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,120 because they knew the CEO had an old connection 439 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,160 with San Patrignano. 440 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,760 While Muccioli's fourth hearing for this trial is approaching, 441 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,760 here at San Patrignano, life goes on as usual. 442 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,280 What you perceive when talking to the guys is that the trial is just a digression. 443 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,280 Is the trial light-years away from your world? 444 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,440 Yes. The trial is outside, out there. 445 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,560 In here, we deal with life and death every day. 446 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,200 Facts are one thing, rumors are another. 447 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,160 The facts are clear. 448 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,000 We've taken in about 22,000 youths. 449 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Guys that were given everything 450 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,760 to get their life back on track 451 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,240 so they could reenter society as free men. 452 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,560 My father hitting, plotting, killing and burning people, 453 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,720 or engaging in occult practices, 454 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,120 those were unpleasant accusations 455 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,120 that were never supported by any evidence, ever. 456 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,520 I want inspections, 457 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,600 I want wide-ranging inquiries into San Patrignano 458 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,800 in order to finally eliminate all the gossip 459 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,680 which distorts the facts… 460 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:09,840 In 1994, with the sociology department of the University of Bologna, 461 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,000 following the Maranzano trial, 462 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,640 an extensive research project was carried out 463 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,760 on the therapeutic effectiveness of San Patrignano. 464 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,280 Letizia and Gian Marco Moratti funded those studies to prove, 465 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,000 in light of the Maranzano trial, 466 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,080 that the judges would be judging a rehab center 467 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,400 that had extraordinary results. 468 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,680 Vincenzo Muccioli, we've talked a lot about San Patrignano. 469 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,360 This research examines a group of young people 470 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,480 who were at San Patrignano, 711 of them. 471 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,160 We carried out two studies. 472 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,240 The recovery from drugs, 473 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,240 so drug-free after so many years, was about 70%. 474 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,280 We found employment for 9,000 youths, and we have over 2,000 here now. 475 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,000 And I turned these guys into men. 476 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,040 Thousands of guys have been healed psychologically, physically. 477 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,560 They work and have reentered society. 478 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,920 It needs to be said that this 70% didn't take into account 479 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,600 those people who entered the commune 480 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,760 but decided to leave after one or two months. 481 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,440 From the IT sector, 482 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,360 I noticed that certain data never corresponded 483 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,360 with the data that Muccioli revealed to the public. 484 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,440 The data was multiplied. 485 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,080 He didn't count individuals, but how many times they entered. 486 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,880 So if I came and went four times, it'd be counted as four entries. 487 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,280 There are 2,800 people here now, but thousands… 488 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,640 I felt really unsettled and disappointed when I found out 489 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,720 that the data was provided by the commune itself. 490 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,280 I asked myself, "What scientific value can this have?" 491 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,440 It was a propaganda tool. 492 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,640 I didn't agree anymore with the defense strategy of the commune. 493 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:16,320 I believed that if we'd had the humility to admit 494 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,760 that… 495 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,640 some mistakes were made, 496 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,640 mainly due to the rapid expansion 497 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,880 and growth of the commune, 498 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,240 I think the public would have understood 499 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,760 because it's not as if we were housing… 500 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,920 college students. 501 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,720 But this siege mentality took over. 502 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,360 "Anyone who criticizes us is a dangerous enemy." 503 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,360 "You're either with us or against us." 504 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,400 That's a suicidal attitude. 505 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,920 Today, the long-awaited court ruling in Rimini 506 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,280 on the homicide of Roberto Maranzano. 507 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,880 We're now at the closing arguments in this trial. 508 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,720 Alfio Russo was found guilty. 509 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,560 He was sentenced to eight years in jail. 510 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,520 The jail sentence was converted to house arrest 511 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,080 after being assessed as having impaired mental capacity. 512 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,000 The court found intent to harm but not to kill Roberto Maranzano. 513 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,360 I don't think justice was served. 514 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,480 Even Alfio Russo, who received the highest sentence, 515 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,520 never spent a single day in jail. 516 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,760 Personally, I still think that in reality 517 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,360 the chains killed Maranzano. 518 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,680 The mentality and attitude that laid behind the chains, 519 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,120 this use of coercive and violent methods, 520 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,520 which was the subject of the first trial, 521 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,880 was also what led to Maranzano's death. 522 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,720 I think Muccioli is innocent. 523 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,760 He deserves a monument in Piazza Cavour. 524 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,400 For one person that died, he saved thousands. 525 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,000 WE SUPPORT MUCCIOLI AND THE COMMUNE - TREVISO 526 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,720 Mr. Judge, I beg you! 527 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,000 Vincenzo, 7,000 people are supporting San Patrignano. 528 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,360 This proves San Patrignano means solidarity, not violence. 529 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,920 Today they proved it to me. 530 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,960 Aside from the upcoming verdict, this gives meaning to my life. 531 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,360 This makes me fearless. 532 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:51,280 For Vincenzo, 533 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,680 to face the crux of the matter would have meant questioning his work. 534 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,920 And he was his work. 535 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,800 That's why he tried to defend it tooth and nail. 536 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,440 Even in the face of the evidence. Even when it would have been… 537 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,640 more useful and intelligent to admit he'd made a mistake. 538 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,480 Don't touch Muccioli. 539 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,960 He wanted to protect his 3,000 children! 540 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,760 Muccioli is innocent! 541 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,080 The loud and visible protests from the community, 542 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,400 supported by the media and by politicians, 543 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,320 were aimed at challenging our attempt 544 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,800 to establish if Muccioli had any responsibilities. 545 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,520 As per Article 530 of the criminal code, 546 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,880 Vincenzo Muccioli is acquitted… 547 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,720 of manslaughter for not having committed this crime. 548 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,640 Vincenzo Muccioli isn't guilty of the death of Roberto Maranzano. 549 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:25,040 The court rules Vincenzo Muccioli guilty of aiding and abetting. 550 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,320 The founder of San Patrignano has been acquitted 551 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,040 of the most serious charge, manslaughter. 552 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,240 But he's been sentenced to eight months for aiding and abetting 553 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,640 alongside those responsible for the Maranzano homicide. 554 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,360 Muccioli is deemed virtually innocent, acquitted of manslaughter, 555 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,440 and charged with an eight-month suspended sentence 556 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:45,960 for aiding and abetting. 557 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,080 The judges didn't find Muccioli responsible for the homicide. 558 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,480 He knew about it, but he kept silent not to betray the trust of the addicts. 559 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,840 Vincenzo Muccioli aided and abetted… 560 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,400 in concealing my father's body. 561 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,120 But in my opinion, 562 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,360 he aided and abetted what happened to my father 563 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,920 because he was the one who wanted the punitive sectors. 564 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,880 To me, he's guilty. 565 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,880 He's guilty. 566 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,800 The prosecution accepts this partial defeat 567 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,840 despite having asked for three years. 568 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,280 Yes, he should've been prosecuted further for abuse and mistreatment. 569 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,320 Will there be additional proceedings? 570 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,560 I'm working on it. I work all the time. I'm working. 571 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,320 Clearly, we won't stop and accept an acquittal we disagree with. 572 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,400 The verdict is simply scandalous. 573 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,440 It proves that Mr. Muccioli has very powerful friends, 574 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,000 very influential politicians. 575 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,320 -You're making serious allegations. -Yes. 576 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,400 There are still murky elements. 577 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,320 My father has never been convicted. 578 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,760 Despite 15 years of trials. 579 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,520 Okay? Never. 580 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,000 That is a fact. Period. 581 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:33,880 I'm obviously very pleased with this acquittal. 582 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,200 I've thanked all the guys 583 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,640 for contributing towards keeping the commune calm 584 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:46,000 in spite of all the venom hurled down on us. 585 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,080 The San Patrignano method… 586 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,080 is by no means based on violence. 587 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,840 Despite the acquittal, 588 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,200 after the Maranzano facts were twisted and exploited, 589 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,920 he knew that he had… 590 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,440 he had no way out. 591 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,120 I think Vincenzo was disheartened and depressed, 592 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,320 and he kept brooding on the events 593 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,080 and the fact that many people… 594 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,320 he had trusted and that were close to him suddenly accused him… 595 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,760 of many things. 596 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,600 The betrayal of these people was something so wretched, 597 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,560 so debasing, so sad, 598 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,360 that after happening once, twice, ten, a hundred times, 599 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,560 it inevitably took a psychological toll 600 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,760 and caused deep sadness 601 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,560 to that poor man, my father. 602 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,120 The press is quoting you saying, 603 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,240 "The commune can go on without me…" 604 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,280 No. 605 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,800 -…as if you were leaving it. -No. 606 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,440 "The commune can go on without me" 607 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,960 doesn't mean that I'm leaving it. 608 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:20,320 I will be here till my very last shred of energy. 609 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:21,440 Vincenzo told me, 610 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,600 "They're trying to demolish me but save San Patrignano 611 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,840 as if we were two separate things. 612 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:34,120 And maybe it'll be best for San Patrignano if I'm no longer around." 613 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,720 From the beginning of '95 up until September, 614 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,960 I saw my father as I'd never seen him before. 615 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:42,920 Ever. 616 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,920 I noticed… 617 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,000 he wasn't involved anymore in the daily activities of the commune. 618 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,880 He was often at home, 619 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,400 sitting in his red armchair, 620 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,520 staring into space, 621 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:56,640 in silence. 622 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,080 It was very painful to watch. 623 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,960 The last time I saw Vincenzo Muccioli 624 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,280 was in his office. 625 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,400 He'd make fun of me because I had become a vegetarian. 626 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,040 He said, "I'll cook lunch for you today." 627 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,920 And he went to cook some vegetables. 628 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,480 You're sick. You can tell. 629 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,720 Even now. God, look at him. 630 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,240 Look. 631 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,000 What is that? A stills camera? 632 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,640 It's a video camera. A small movie camera. 633 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,840 After that, he wasn't feeling too well and he went to bed. 634 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,480 I stayed and chatted with Gian Marco and I think Andrea too. 635 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,120 Then I said, "I have to go." 636 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,200 And they said, "We'll wake Vincenzo." I said, "Don't, just say goodbye for me." 637 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,000 I was halfway home when I got a call. It was Vincenzo. 638 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,080 He was upset. He said, "We didn't say goodbye." 639 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,840 "Vincenzo, we didn't say goodbye because you were sleeping." 640 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,520 "You should have woken me up!" 641 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,600 He knew it was the last time we'd see each other. I didn't. 642 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,960 Those were two very difficult years 643 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,360 that left him frustrated and exhausted. 644 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,760 And we, his entourage, 645 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,480 from the spring of 1995, didn't see him anymore. 646 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,240 And we were given vague explanations. 647 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,800 "He's away on business," etc. 648 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,960 It was also a little awkward because he was in high demand 649 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,840 by journalists, TV, lawyers… 650 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,840 And we didn't know how to justify his absence anymore. 651 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,160 FEAR FOR MUCCIOLI'S HEALTH HE'S UNWELL AND LOST WEIGHT 652 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:05,880 One day in the summer of 1995, 653 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,600 an article in the Corriere della Sera 654 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,800 reported that Vincenzo Muccioli was very ill. 655 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:17,960 We were stunned. 656 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,640 Why were we not told something so important? 657 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:25,320 We had to read it in the papers. 658 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,640 As a doctor, 659 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:32,640 when Vincenzo was feeling unwell I would see him every day. 660 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,960 He was undoubtedly depressed, 661 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,120 and kept mulling over the criticism the guys had given him. 662 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,120 Vincenzo Muccioli is very ill. He's lost 20 kilos, 663 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,360 and he's in his house in San Patrignano. 664 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,760 He hasn't been to his commune in over a month. 665 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,000 How's your father? 666 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,000 My father's not very well. 667 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,400 He's drained and has no energy. 668 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,440 What does your husband really have? 669 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,000 He has a broken soul. 670 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,760 He has been ruthlessly attacked. He's mortally wounded. 671 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,480 Who attacked him? 672 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,240 The court initiated three trials against him 673 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,280 and manipulated the weaker guys 674 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:18,000 without thinking of the consequences that those guys will have to face. 675 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,680 Vincenzo Muccioli's condition seems to be hopeless. 676 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,960 Today, his condition has worsened. 677 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,680 My father, a proud warrior, 678 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,960 was fighting to prove his innocence 679 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,600 but also the goodness of San Patrignano. 680 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,320 At a certain point he said, 681 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:45,120 "I need to die so that-- San Patrignano lives on." 682 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,680 Vincenzo Muccioli spent the night with his family and closest friends. 683 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,680 Muccioli has been in a coma since Friday. 684 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,960 He has virtually no brain activity. 685 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,600 One day in September, 686 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,280 all the veterans of the commune were taken to the villa 687 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,840 where Vincenzo lived with his family. 688 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:12,000 Gian Marco and Letizia Moratti were there too. 689 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,640 We were taken to Vincenzo's bedside, 690 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,840 and he was… unconscious. He was dying. 691 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:20,760 And we were told that… 692 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,920 it was only right for us to see him one last time. 693 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,640 I would have preferred to see him… 694 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:37,280 when he could still talk, and tell him… how much I owed him. 695 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,480 But I wasn't allowed, nor was anyone else. It wasn't just me. 696 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,280 That really hurt me. 697 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,560 And in those 15 or 20 days, 698 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,000 I decided I had to leave. 699 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,000 "Once Vincenzo dies, this experience is over for me." 700 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:01,800 I left... 701 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,560 two days before his death. 702 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,000 I'm not scared of death. 703 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,920 I just want to finish, while I'm alive, 704 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,280 everything that I've started, 705 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,160 which is to give these guys hope for their future. 706 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:24,560 Because here they will always have a roof over their heads 707 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,800 in order to continue what I started for them. 708 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,600 Vincenzo Muccioli's long struggle is over. 709 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:38,280 The founder of San Patrignano died two hours ago in his commune, 710 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,360 the largest in Europe for drug addicts. 711 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,720 He wanted to die among his guys. 712 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,760 No reporters nor journalists can film his body. 713 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,120 Only Muccioli's hands are visible, pale and frail. 714 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,560 Muccioli was like family to me. 715 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,480 I'm extremely upset. 716 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,680 We didn't know we had a son before. 717 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,480 But now we have a son. 718 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,640 -We got him back. -We have our son back, thanks to Vincenzo. 719 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,160 Vincenzo's someone who allowed 720 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,960 my parents to die in peace. 721 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,960 Vincenzo gave my family meaning again. 722 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,000 News of Muccioli's death was delivered to the Italian president 723 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,720 by a call from the CEO of RAI, Letizia Moratti. 724 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,640 In a message, the president of the Republic said, 725 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,400 "He was a person who'd suffered a great deal." 726 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,200 The Pope sent his condolences to the commune of San Patrignano 727 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,480 where Muccioli's funeral was held today. 728 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:38,800 I've never known exactly the cause of his death, 729 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,320 and neither did my poor mother, 730 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,600 because nobody ever told us. 731 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,600 Everyone knows what he died of. 732 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,440 But… 733 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,720 But he's dead, so it doesn't… 734 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,920 He's dead. 735 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,600 I don't think you should even ask me that. 736 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,800 At 61, Muccioli died young 737 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,400 killed by an illness known only to his doctors. 738 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,520 Did Vincenzo Muccioli die of AIDS? 739 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,200 I understand you're asking this because it's in the papers. 740 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,840 HEPATITIS C THE CAUSE OF THE ILLNESS, BUT AIDS IS ALSO RUMORED 741 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,080 Why is he being attacked even in death? 742 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:44,120 I don't know why they chose to hide 743 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,360 the illness, AIDS, 744 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,280 that Vincenzo was suffering from. 745 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:59,160 He'd told us that he might've been exposed to it 746 00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:02,600 when he cared for the first guy who died of AIDS, 747 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,560 someone he was very close to, 748 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:06,200 Renzo. 749 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:13,160 He told us he'd contracted the virus through an infected needle, 750 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:14,480 which seems a little… 751 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,280 odd to me. But it can't be ruled out. 752 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,440 It can happen. 753 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,400 The final medical report said brain damage, 754 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,880 death by natural causes. 755 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,880 Despite this, there are… 756 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,240 rumors, mysteries… 757 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,600 And are you saying that all these are unfounded? 758 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,520 Of course. 759 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,440 I was under the impression that, 760 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,080 aside from the more or less substantiated rumors 761 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,360 about Vincenzo's homosexuality, 762 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,400 the idea of such a disease, somehow… 763 00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,040 could compromise his image. 764 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,960 But for me, it could have made him… even more extraordinary. 765 00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,880 For me, Vincenzo had… 766 00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:02,600 confronted life's limits. 767 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,520 Vincenzo clearly came from a different mindset. 768 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,960 The mindset of the Romagna macho man, 769 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,560 the womanizer, the great dancer. 770 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,080 So I'm certain 771 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,960 that Vincenzo never admitted, not even to himself, 772 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,240 his homosexuality, 773 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,880 because for him, it would've been very difficult. 774 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,840 They tried really hard 775 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,720 to damage Vincenzo's credibility. 776 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:37,920 They failed. 777 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,000 So what's left? 778 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,520 The only thing left to do is to say that he's gay. 779 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,160 That's the truth. 780 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,840 The accusation of homosexuality is totally ridiculous. 781 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:53,800 It only circles back to the sheer magnitude of criticism, 782 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,840 vitriol, accusations… 783 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,680 which were gathered from the lowlifes all around Italy. 784 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,480 In the beginning, after I left the commune, 785 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,280 I really struggled 786 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,440 because I missed his presence. 787 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:16,880 I'd think, "Oh God… 788 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,640 It's only me now. I'm alone. I can't… 789 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:24,520 turn to him for advice anymore." 790 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:31,560 Then I wanted to clear the slate of the good and the bad I'd received. 791 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,320 I just wanted to start over. 792 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,160 With my family beside me, I threw myself into work. 793 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,000 I've been a paramedic for ten years. 794 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:50,760 I never imagined I'd be working for the state. 795 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,680 It's incredibly rewarding. 796 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,720 Because you can build a life, 797 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,160 get a mortgage, support your family, 798 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,320 and pay your bills. 799 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,720 Doing things that are normal for a normal person. 800 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,920 But for someone who wasn't in the normal world, 801 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,200 getting to do this is incredible. 802 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,760 And your relationship with society totally changes. 803 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,080 I'm happy to pay taxes. 804 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,960 My biggest satisfaction has been 805 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,200 watching my daughter grow up so well. 806 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:37,560 Andrea Delogu. 807 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:45,040 When I see Andrea on TV, it's an enormous joy. 808 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:46,960 She's the love of my life. 809 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,360 I'm a TV and radio presenter. 810 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,520 I'm an actress and… 811 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,200 I've written a couple of books. 812 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:16,200 I think Vincenzo will always be in my thoughts. 813 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,440 Even though I'm free of him, 814 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,040 he got deep inside me, 815 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,280 and he'll never leave me. 816 00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,120 When my father died, 817 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:43,280 I was overwhelmed by some awful things. 818 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,520 As a 28-year-old guy, 819 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,000 I had no intention of becoming my father's successor. 820 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,360 The commune decided that I should. 821 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,280 Among those trying to figure out if I was up to the task, 822 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,120 "Will he be suitable or not?" 823 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,400 were the investors. 824 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,240 And what did they do? 825 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,000 At some point, they decided that I was up to the task, 826 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:18,240 that I absolutely had to do the job. 827 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,520 Vincenzo Muccioli always said, 828 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,040 "On the one hand, I welcome them, but on the other, I tell the world, 829 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,560 'Guys, you can help them. It's your duty. 830 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,720 Take care of these guys. 831 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,240 They're not trash.' 832 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,920 I welcomed them as if they were my own children. 833 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,000 Look at their humanity. They have a lot to offer." 834 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,640 San Patrignano is a place that needs to be protected. 835 00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,720 You can't just talk about it, you have to experience it. 836 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,000 After I left, though it seemed impossible, 837 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:04,240 I relapsed. 838 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,760 I should have been locked up until 2020. 839 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:13,720 Instead, here I am, honoring Vincenzo, God, 840 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,760 animals, dogs, the guys I train in the gym. 841 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,040 I've been working for 27 years as an addiction therapist. 842 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,000 What I witnessed at San Patrignano, for me, is… 843 00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:39,200 the textbook of what should not be done 844 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,160 in most of the cases. 845 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,840 I don't believe a drug addict will quit for fear of being beaten up. 846 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,520 We say, "We want to have a dialogue with you." 847 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,400 For years Maranzano, Natalia's brother, 848 00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,240 and many others have been asking to be heard. 849 00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,840 They even ask to go to San Patrignano 850 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,400 to have an open conversation all together. 851 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,400 But their requests are not heard. 852 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,720 If I met Muccioli today, 853 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,600 the first thing I'd say is, 854 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,440 "How dare you?" 855 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,600 To Natalia, I'd say… 856 00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,000 "I should have been more present for you." 857 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,000 All the people who accused Muccioli are murderers. 858 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,560 We're talking about Vincenzo Muccioli. 859 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,320 He'll go down in history for what he did. 860 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,160 And what he did is huge. 861 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:42,040 That's why 862 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,320 he should be made a saint. 863 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,400 I couldn't stand people saying everything was good. 864 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,480 I couldn't stand people saying everything was bad either. 865 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,680 Vincenzo Muccioli 866 00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,440 tried to be a father figure to me, 867 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,800 but I prefer to say, "He was a friend." 868 00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:12,160 San Patrignano still has a great reputation. 869 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:21,480 The fact that the dark side of San Patrignano is never shown, 870 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,480 is disheartening. 871 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,560 It's like when there's something bad, 872 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,000 and you turn away because… 873 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,640 because it upsets you, and you only want to see the nice part 874 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,280 and not think about the bad part. 875 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,400 This jewel, San Patrignano, seen as wondrous, 876 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,360 always praised… 877 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,760 is a great advert for Italy. 878 00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,120 The relationship between San Patrignano and the truth broke down 879 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,840 when SanPa decided that its public image 880 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,560 was more important than its inner truth. 881 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,520 Because its public image was striking and more impressive 882 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,840 and made it more popular. 883 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,240 But that's a path to perdition where you lose your soul. 884 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,320 You lose your inner truth, which is an elusive truth, 885 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,440 multifaceted and often contradictory. 886 00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:27,000 But that's life. If you shut the door to that truth, 887 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,400 you stop evolving. 888 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,880 This is not a rhetorical statement, 889 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,800 Vincenzo's always with me. 890 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,200 Who I am today is also thanks to Vincenzo 891 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,040 and also thanks to San Patrignano. 892 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,640 Though I have to acknowledge… 893 00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,400 despite Vincenzo and despite San Patrignano. 69558

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