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[calm music]

[Nathan] This is Colorado
Matters from CPR News.

I am Nathan Heffel.

We first spoke with our
next guest, Ben Jenkins,
about a month ago.

At the time he was getting
ready to take a step 500 miles

worth of steps actually back
in time on the Colorado Trail.

Jenkins is a history buff.

His hope was to reenact
the trip a merchant might
have made in the 1860s

and he would wear
clothes and use camping
equipment from that era.

He told us about his careful
research, talked about the
clothes he made by hand

and only once hedged his bet.

[Ben] Fingers crossed we
don't have to stop the Trail.

But just based on the fact
that this has never been
done before in this manner,

there are a lot of things
that we really don't know-

we don't actually know what's
gonna happen out there.

[Nathan] Well, Jenkins
and his partner Aaron Klass

have stopped their hike
several times, in fact.

They have been home in the
Denver area more than a week

while they do kind of a
reset on the trip entirely.

Ben, welcome back.

Thanks so much
for having me back.

So, after all the planning
and the work he put into
planning this 500-mile journey,

how disappointed are you
with what's happened so far?

[motivational music]

All right.

-Say hey!
-Hey, Elly.

All right, let me
load up my gear.

I wanna lay my coat down.

Puppies, come here.

Just in case you
don't understand,
I don't think Charlie does,

I'm not gonna see you
guys for a long, long time.

-But when I come back
it's treats for everyone.
-[laughing]

[Aaron] Yeah, looks great.

[chatting]

[Ben] Yeah, even this morning
waking up and getting in the car
and loading up the packs and

saying the goodbyes, it all kind
of felt like another day hike
that Aaron and I go out and do.

And then to actually
then get here,

having been here before

and kind of knowing
what at least the next
few miles is like,

there's something
about it that feels real.

[Aaron] Feels great.

I'm looking forward
to getting walking.

I've been really restless
for the last couple of days.

So I'm looking forward to
being on my feet for a while.

[Ben] I'd like to lie and say
that I knew what's gonna happen

from this point forward
but I'm not real sure.

It's all part of the adventure
is not really knowing.

And when something does happen
kind of taking it for what it is

and rolling with it and
trying to make it work.

For me that's what these
guys did, so that's kind of
be counterproductive for us

not to try to work through that.

[Aaron] Really the cold and
wet are gonna be our biggest,
biggest enemies definitely.

There are couple of dry
sections around, like,

concerned about water
but will acclimate to that
pretty quickly, I imagine.

Being away from my phone
for a month is gonna be
really good for me, I think.

Ben and I get along just fine
and it will be nice to have,

you know, a little
introspective time.

[motivational music]

There is a lot of things
you can do to me
that I will tolerate.

Having something just
hanging on my teeth
that I can't get out,

it's like the worst thing
on Earth, man.

-Don't wanna use that?
-I can try.

Yeah, just change your--
change your habits, you know.

Even if you still ate the same
way, you got out and you moved,
you walked five miles a day,

you'd lose 20--
still lose 20 pounds.

[Aaron] Oh, yeah, no doubt.

-[Ben] You have to be
consistent with that.
-[Aaron] No doubt, you know.

[water running]

Awesome. Well,
we'll see you guys then.

Yeah, I'm stoked you
guys are doing this-

You're hot.

-I am hot.
-You're starting at 9:45.

Yeah, it was-- it's pretty warm.

-Let them dry out
for a few minutes...
-Yeah.

--and then put on
the clean socks.
Let these ones fully dry.

Yeah, it's not a bad idea.

♪♪♪

Although my feet are staying
dry, my feet are getting-- socks
are getting so full of dirt

and grime that it's like--
it's literally grime and, I
mean my feet are smooth.

Yeah, these pickles
are like lifeblood to me.

Feels like I'm eating Gatorade.

[bird chirping]

We're fucking idiots.

Yeah.

-That's a very good idea.
-Just help me.

Oh, fuck.

♪♪♪

[Ben] Getting up, you know,
before the sun and shivering
while we packed up our-

our gear and then doing
the first two miles by
lantern light was very cool.

Just based off the fact that
we have limited water capacity,
we're gonna try to get

as this far into it as we
can while it's still cool and
before the sun comes up.

By about noon, I'm
guessing it'll reach the 90s.

So we're just trying
to make the biggest
dent in today as we can.

It was a very, very
long night. It's really cold.

I can't believe I'm saying
it when I'm actually pretty
excited to get moving.

I'm pretty-- I'm pretty cold.

We're gonna get moving.

Cool.

[Aaron] Day two was
long, hot, dry, exposed.

[Ben] The first half of section
two is in an old burn area.

So it's dry.

There's no water
for almost 11 miles,
no trees, nothing but sun.

It was very, very hot
and it was pretty brutal.

All right then.

Having to dry my feet
like every two miles

and it's just fucking up
my ability to keep a pace.

Oddly enough, by
using the Colorado Trail
as like a kind of a conduit

to properly express this
thing we had in our head,

it's actually... looks
like it's gonna turn out
to be our worst enemy.

I think being out here
and realizing like am
I truly experiencing

what these guys are
experiencing? And the answer
to that as I have got in,

you know, almost
30 miles is maybe not.

So that's-- that's just
a big question that's kind
of sitting inside my head

and kind of lingering.

So, yeah, who knows?

[woodpecker tapping]

Woodpecker.

It's kind of crazy.

A few funny looks, but
mostly people have been
really kind and supportive

and have shown interest and--
and been genuine about wanting
to learn about the period

and sort of see what their
predecessors were using.

You know it's nice that
it's a crowd that's enthused
by outdoorsmanship

and this is kind of a
cool forum to share
what we've learned about,

the sort of early period at
North American mountaineering.

It's so dirty.
You are really gross.

It should help.

The-- one of the shoulder straps
popped in one of the rivets,

so I just have it slung
across me right now,
pull it off, you can see it.

Uh. Oh! This is homie.

If this kind of stuff would have
happened to us, we would
have stopped in Breckenridge.

-Yeah.
-And we would have
stayed there for a while.

-Right.
-We would have got a hotel and
we would have got syphilis.

Yeah.

-Yeah.
-It's just the way it works.

-So, but anyway--
-Can we still get syphilis?

At least there's something
exciting going on.

-I got this little guy but
it doesn't hurt too bad.
-Oh! Oh, yeah.

This guy's open, has
been since the first day.

This guy is opening up.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I'm just
gonna have to call
it quits on the boots.

-Yeah, yeah, you
seem to be hauling.
-Nothing.

-And, honestly, I think it's
the weight more than like-
-I think it's the weight-

-and the breathing.
-and the fact that
my feet never get hot.

Yeah.

[Ben] Food has been a lot better
than I thought, mostly because
I haven't been eating much.

So I had to down a lot of it.

These first couple of days as
your body kind of adjusted the
heat and the constant movement,

you-- you tend to lose
your appetite a bit.

But the foods we have
been eating are a lot of
dried and dehydrated foods,

foods that would have
been incredibly common
in Colorado in 1860.

Jerkies, dried meats, dried
fruits and vegetables,
dehydrated soups.

I've been doing a lot of like
jerky and salted corn nuts so
that I have some salt on board

just because we've been
doing these long hot sections
and I'm sweating up a storm.

I-- we-- we already went
through our first jar of pickles
and I am missing those dearly.

I slept better-- yeah, woke
up this morning about
probably about 5 o'clock, 5:30,

got a fire started, warming
myself up really good.

And then just lied down here,
just-- just the blanket over me
and I conked out like that.

I was out for like an hour,
an hour or 15 minutes or so.

-It's so great.
-Yeah.

That's about how a good
sleep I got last night.

I feel good this morning though.

I'm tired but body feels good.

-Feet feel good.
-That's good.

Smells about right.

[coughing]

Other than that I
think I'm packed up.

♪ It's a perfect day
For the road ♪

♪ The blue sky
Will take us home ♪

♪ We'll take it easy
We'll take it slow ♪

♪ It's a good day for the road

♪ And time goes so fast

[man] Are you hiking with gear
from the 1800s or something?

[Aaron] Yeah, we're
doing the 1860s.

-[Aaron] Yeah.
-[man] 1860.

[Aaron] It's-- it has
its ups and downs.

-[Ben] These boots are the
downs, let me tell you.
-[Aaron] Yeah, that's good.

[man] I have the same boots.

[Aaron] Huge through
hikes are really a modern
mountaineering trend

and these guys were
not doing huge distances
like this without pack animals.

[Ben+ Almost everything you read
through, whether it's newspaper
articles or letters or diaries

or whatever, there's usually
a mention of the mule
or-- or the ox or whatever.

And we're not doing that,
and I think that that's
posed the biggest challenge

is that we're carrying far more
than these guys would have had
to rely on themselves to carry.

Ben's hauling, but I think
he is fueled by misery.

[chuckles]

Aaron is having a good
bit of foot problem.

He decided to wear his boots,
and so not only are they hot

but they're keeping
his feet really wet,

which has caused a lot
of issues with blisters
and stuff like that.

So, he's trailing behind.

He's probably easily
a good mile behind me,

a good hour, hour and a half
behind me, give or take.

So, yeah, I'm hoping
that once we get the
shoe issue figured out

that things will
move a little quicker.

[Ben] How are your feet doing?

[Aaron] I was actually
thinking about it and I don't
think I got a single step

in today that wasn't painful.

Well, if it makes you
feel any better,

which it's not, I got
my first real blister
on this end stretch.

-Oh, yeah?
-Yeah.

-You gonna be okay?
-[laughing]

[Ben] I hope so.

I may-- it may put me out.

-We know we did 43 miles
in two and a half days-
- Yeah.

-which is pretty
beastly in our quest.
-That's fun.

My only fear is that
the mountains just
get higher and higher.

[Ben] I think there's a lot of
people on the trail this year.

[woman] I was gonna
say I didn't realize
how populated this was.

[Aaron] Very poplar thing.

[Ben] This is-- according to
the Colorado Trail Foundation,

they are-- they're thinking
this is gonna be their most
populated year to date.

-[man] Oh really?
Oh, that's a...
-[Ben] It was-- oh my God,

it was insane those
first couple of days.

I took the inner tie straps off
your pack, did you notice that?

Because they were
getting in my way and-

I just replaced them
with some cordage.

[Ben] Oh. Okay, never mind.

I figured you noticed
that. You look so
dandy in those shoes.

-[Aaron] Thank you.
-Yeah.

I'm not used to wearing
shoes anymore.

-[Ben] Me, I'm--
-[Aaron] I haven't worn
shoes to an event in years.

You know I wear boots all
the time, I'm a boots guy

and so I've just now
gotten used to these.

[Nathan] And the trail
crosses the mountains
from Denver to Durango.

The average elevation
is 10,000 feet.

The director of the Colorado
Trail Foundation Bill Manning
estimates only about half

of the people who
plan on making it 500
miles actually succeed

and they're in modern gear
and some of them make it-- they
actually take it in segments.

But you were planning
to do the entire thing.

[Ben] Yeah. Maybe that
was a little ambitious.

[Nathan] So was it ever doable?
I guess that's the question.

[Ben] Damn shoes.

[Aaron] I'm looking forward
to walking in them.

Probably more than
six pounds lighter.

Probably six pounds lighter
in the pack and then another
five pounds lighter in shoes.

You want to sign the log in?

[Ben] 7/11/1860.

Perfect.

♪♪♪

[water running]

So that's three miles.

-That's three miles?
-[man] You're joking.

If that's Guernsey Creek,
it's three miles now.

Jesus Christ, Shit. That was
a faster move. That's it.

Yeah, dude, we are--
that's-- we are making-

[man] Your new shoes
are working out well?

Yeah, seriously, I'm much,
much more comfortable.

It's much more comfortable.

-You feel good?
-Lead on.

-All right?
-Yeah.

[Ben] --from her collection.

The wedding handkerchief
of Fanny Chamberlain.

-[woman] Eight forty.
-[Ben] Thank you.

-[Ben] Wow. Really?
-[woman] Mm-Hm.

-Eight forty?
-[man] Yeah.

-[Ben] I feel good though, man.
-Me, too.

-[Ben] I don't feel like
I'm rushing at all.
-Nah. Feels good.

-Chocolates, legal?
-Yeah.

[woman chuckles]

Yeah, chocolates are legal.

[Aaron] They are comfy.

I'm sweating into my socks,
but they're breathing.

[Ben] Your canteen getting
less shiny now? Blinding
you every once in a blue moon?

[Aaron] I think so.

A little less shiny,
little patina.

♪♪♪

[water running]

They're like three times as
dry as they would have been.

They are-- yeah, it's the shoes
are making all the difference.

[Aaron] Lean over here.

[Ben] Get a little in groove.

Looks like this is the last
water for-- last good reliable
water for about five miles.

I am losing the weight inching
up on already, man,

inching up on being able to
push the stretch in my belt.

True.

I think I'll almost get to
the other notch I didn't
think I'll get to till halfway.

-And my shirt is holding my
pants up on this-- it's belted.
-I know.

Your pants are already
a little big on you and
you lost some weight.

[Aaron] I know.

[Ben] Hey.

That's incredible,
man, the view.

It is amazing.

[man] Both ways.

I guess it's kind
of pretty up here.

This has been about a
six-and-a-half mile uphill.

It's been gradual but
it's still been exhausting.

So, it will be nice
to get a little downhill.

There's a really good chance
Aaron and I may even get a
good 20-mile day in today.

Oh, man, seriously, my feet
are having a chance to dry.

I don't have hot spots,
I'm not raising blisters.

It's really-- it's
really something.

It also reduced a solid six
pounds off my load just 'cause
those boots are so heavy.

So this is making all
the difference. I'm fine.

That's a big fire.

[Ben] Once we get out of
segment 10, there may be a push
toward the end of segment 10,

maybe getting some
smoke and then have
to skip over 11 and 12,

pick back up the Silver
Creek Trailhead.

♪♪♪

[Ben] Today's really beautiful,
too, it's like long and it
kind of drove a little bit

towards the end but I think it's
because we knew we were gonna be
getting like into Breckenridge.

So, but, yeah, last
night was really bad.

I was like eight hours of
shivering and to the point where
I almost got up in the night

and started hiking.

This morning it was like--
what, how many miles
do you think that was?

Three and a half, four miles
of just straight up, like-- up
like the second we left.

-I think it was just two but it
was at thousand feet-- Wow.
-I felt like four.

-you know so.
-[man] Yeah.

All these every single campsite
10.3, 10.4, 12, 11.6-

[Aaron] Yeah, you are
not gonna be anymore.

♪♪♪

What? I do not, unfortunately.

-I'm just hungry.
-Let's just eat here.

That seems fair.

-[man] What's up?
-Ben died.

[all chuckle]

We-- we had a rough couple
of nights the last-- the last--

well, he had a rough
night last night in particular.

He's been having a hard time
keeping warm in the evenings.

His blanket's just
not thick enough.

I think it's most
of the problem.

I think he hasn't been
getting any sleep at all.

So-- so today we sent him home.

He's gonna procure a
blanket as fast as he can.

I'm gonna stick around here for
a couple of days, take a couple
of zeros, do some day hikes.

On days where I don't feel like
taking zeros and see how fast
we can get him back out here.

And doing it this way
means he's got some
motivation to come back out,

he won't leave me in
the woods, you know.

♪ Tomorrow's never promised

♪ But now is the time

♪ For hopes arising

♪ Tomorrow's never promised

♪ But now is the time

♪ For change that starts today

♪ Whoa

I pulled the shelter off
mine-- off me and I got
swarmed like immediately.

So I put it back over me and
slept for a couple more hours.

I'm gonna walk, I'm
gonna walk as much
as I can. I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna go see Camp Hale,
is down this way where the
10th Mountain did their training

for the Second World War.

Segment 9 runs that way.

And I'll have to walk
on my old Segment 9
every day to get water.

So I'll probably do a couple,
you know, long roundabout
day hikes there too.

So, hopefully, I'll just, you
know, keep-- keep racking up the
miles, that's why I am out here,

you know, is to just
hike as much as I can.

I'm excited to have tons
of food, way too much food,
so I'm looking forward to

offering some trail magic
to people and meeting a
few through hikers also.

It'll be a good time definitely.

I'm, yeah, looking forward
to relaxing a couple of days.

♪♪♪

These are pretty typical
of the late 1870s, 1880s
in terms of manufacture.

The felling ax here
is hand forged and was--

Ben suggested probably
made in the 1850s, 1860s,

but it certainly wasn't brought
to the area until the 1880s.

I found it in the mining
camp over there.

And then all of this is a
railroad grade and every 15, 20
feet there are railroad spikes.

So they pulled the tracks
but left-- left the spikes and
they are littered all along.

Also found bits of mason jars
in purple and blue, which are
colors that are pretty typical

of the latter half
of the 19th century.

So, some-- some archeology
while I was occupied here.

Felling ax was a cool find.

Never found anything
like that quite-- quite
like that in the Rockies.

So, yeah, that
was exciting for me.

Mosquitoes are in the fire pit.

They're staring at me.

I killed some with my knife.

-[Ben] That sounds
pretty brutal.
-There were so many.

-[Ben] You just--
-Yeah.

-Yeah.
-Yeah, that doesn't sound too...

Killed one with the
edge of my knife.

I'm not sure I would expect
a good night's rest but-

-A night's rest.
-A night's rest.

Yeah.

I'll take-- I'll take that.
I am-- at this point I'm--
a night's rest would be-

would be good enough for me.

Eliminate the soups and
stuff from the things

-and we'll just add in maybe
some extra jerky and...
- All right.

-...stuff just to--
-Yeah, yeah, I guess.

So I was able to get my
hands on a blanket, a
much warmer blanket,

and we also were able
to kind of have a few
safety nets for warmth

that we were able
to keep in our kits.

I had the opportunity, I
just was left with a little
surplus of food here, so

I passed out some--
some Trail Magic to
folks and got a chance

to support a few people and
talk a little bit more about
what it is that we're doing.

So it was a-- that was
a cool experience.

Oh my God, my
forehead is brutally bitten.

I can imagine I'll get chilly
tonight but I definitely feel
like this is going to make-

[Aaron] Yeah, I'm curious
to see how you do.

So I got about good,
really good, two hours
of sleep last night.

Okay.

-Again, improvement.
-[both chuckle]

All right, yeah, two
dinners, it should do it.

I don't know, working
the flat weight.

-[Ben] Oh my God,
there is enough of it.
-[Aaron] Yeah.

-Yeah. Good deal.
-So, I think...

-[Aaron] Do you have a bag
of jerky for yourself?
-[Ben] I do, yeah.

-I have a whole bag of jerky.
-[Aaron] Yeah.

Got a couple of muffins
here if you guys want.

They're flacks and
things, right along.

I am pretty good, man.

I feel pretty good about
the next days food-wise.

I mean it's gonna be
bland, but that is what it is.

I'm okay with that.

[Aaron] All right. Here's water.

Oh, beautiful.

[Ben] Yeah, looks
like I can't walk.

It's a nice little
gradual climb.

Yeah, not too bad.

[Ben] Packs, going
down in weight.

We got so used to lighter pack
and then I just added all that
weight, too, it's killing me.

I'm sure a mosquito
is stuck in there.

[Aaron] They're awful.
They're awful.

[Ben] So for the first time

Aaron and I are gonna
be crossing into a
wilderness section.

In 1964 a federal act was
passed that protected
a lot of these areas.

There's nothing mechanized
allowed inside of the area.

Getting film permits
for these sections
was incredibly difficult.

I think we passed through six
or seven wilderness sections.

I'm not a hundred
percent certain.

Unfortunately, we're gonna
have to omit filming
in any of those sections,

which is very unfortunate
because they are some
of the most pristine

untouched areas in the country.

Because there's nothing
mechanized we're
not gonna run into bikes.

We're at a point in the trail
where we're running into few

and fewer day hikers
and through hikers.

I'm looking forward to less
noise pollution, noise and light
pollution in these sections.

You know, no matter
where you go in the Rockies,
there is a road close by.

So, up until now we've
definitely had a lot of ambient,

you know, motor vehicle
noise that I'm looking
forward to escaping.

We will still have airplanes
and things like that

but I expect there
to be very little ambient
light and that's--

that's gonna be something that's
gonna really help pull us out

of this period and back
into the-- the '60s.

♪♪♪

[Aaron] It was nice
going through those
wilderness sections.

The Holy Cross Wilderness
in particular was just
stunningly beautiful.

You know long steep
climbs but totally worth it.

And we passed maybe
10 people on the first
mile of the wilderness

and then didn't see
a soul for the rest of it.

We ended up doing
about 20, a little over
20-mile-day yesterday.

So we were able to get
a room in a local's home.

We each had our own bed.

We were able to get a shower
and a hot meal and we were
able to wake up this morning

in beautiful Twin Lakes
and we were ecstatic.

Because of the fire ban
that's currently in place across
the entire Colorado Trail,

Aaron and I have now had to
completely eliminate campfires

and so we can't
have hot meals now.

And it was definitely
a morale booster,
I think, for both of us.

We were-- we woke up
this morning feeling
like a million bucks.

Great to have a hot meal.

I ate a bunch of pasta and some
of Ben's steak and I'm ready to-
ready to start walking for sure.

Awesome, yeah.

[man] Mine looks very similar.

-Does it?
-[man] Same function.

-Do you know which model it is?
-[man] I could
give it, it's just-

I-- I can tell you
about it, absolutely.

Very nice.

-Do you know anything about it?
-[man] Came with the family
cabin that we had in Wisconsin.

No shit. This is a Remington
Army revolver in .44 caliber.

The model is 1858.

They were manufactured
from 1863 up until about 1873.

[guitar playing]

So, we had some period
maps from the trail.

-[man] Yeah.
-The trail-- it's all the
scalings using the original map.

So, if any of you feel
like there is anybody-

anybody in general
who wants to take one,
they are free to have one.

Now depending on
the year, this state was
technically Texas, right?

-[Ben] It was technically
Kansas-Utah.
-Kansas.

[Ben] Kansas-Utah territory.

So, it wouldn't become
the Colorado territory
until, what, '60? '61.

I don't know if you can
see on the-- all this.

I got like-- I stopped for
water once yesterday,
got like 14 or 15 bites.

Perfect.

I already stink
on the trail, so.

Your shirt is a totally
different color now.

-[Aaron] Oh, yeah.
-He washed his shirt last night.

♪♪♪

Aaron's got a far more leveled
step and so I think he's
gonna get far more miles-

It's that barefoot training,
man, I'm telling you.

-I thought the-- I thought
by now it's much added-
-It's the wave of the future.

I have a little bit of a bow leg
and so because it's gravel, so--
so it's rough and it's like-

it literally is like sandpaper
to these leather soles,
my heel is just rubbed,

I'm now walking at an angle
far more than I should be

because every time I take
a step now it's like rolling
my ankle like naturally.

So, the good news
is if somebody's not
bowlegged like me,

they could easily get
150, 200 miles solid.

-They weren't as big of trash as
I think they're made out to be.
-Yeah.

Because my biggest-- my
actual concern with these was
not the leather or the soles,

it was actually that the
canvas is gonna start busting
because, I mean we're-

we're constantly slamming into
rocks and I don't even have
as much as a snag on these.

They're dirty
but that's about it.

Yeah, I'm really
happy with them.

-Let's go find a little shade.
-Yeah.

-[Ben] But they seem
to be so gross.
-[Aaron] I know.

[Ben] So hot.

-It was pretty quick.
-Yeah, we had food for a while.

Why'd you let me get
an egg sandwich, man?

[Aaron] You told me
what you wanted.

Ugh!

It's like grandma used to
make. I didn't like it then.

[Aaron] In fact, grandma
made that sandwich.

[chuckles]

Need a knife to take
some of that off?

[Ben] Some of that's just-- it's
like dropping it in cat hair.

There's just no saving it.

It's hot today, man.

-This is the hottest day
we've had since we started.
-[Aaron] Yeah, easily.

-The last couple of
days have been easily-
-[Aaron] Very comfortable.

-Easily in the mid-60s.
-Yeah.

-Today it's might be in the 80s.
-Exactly.

Yeah.

Going up on 90.

-No breeze on the first
hundred either.
-No.

It's nice standing on the
breeze here for a minute.

All right, man.

Did me well.

He got some serious
distance out of us.

-Yeah.
-We're not expected.

As most as I
would've liked but--

-How are we doing?
-Yeah, right on time.

[Ben] Busted hole in there.

This last few little
bit was gnarly, man.

It's all sand today.

The sole flared again.

-Yeah?
-[Aaron] Yeah, it's
lanced, so it's nasty.

Never had a blister
quite like this.

First socks.

I know I can't wait to put--
I'm just letting my feet
air up for a minute.

I'm not gonna put
them on until I have to.

My toes are swollen up.
This one, here. What if I
broke it or something? Ow!

It must have been
really hurting me.

-Oh, has it?
-Yeah.

Ow! They're both
like that? Nope.

Wouldn't be surprised
like I've got-- if I got a
couple of micro fractures.

Oh, man.

So it looks like Wednesday
we'll hit the halfway
point if we keep on track.

[man] Does it feel like
you've been halfway?

Feels like I've been
all the way and back.

[man] Think we could
do this one more time?

In my head, it's
always Segment 1.

That way I'll be pleasantly
surprised when it's over.

I still blame Aaron for saying
he would go with me.

Because if he wouldn't have
said he would have I probably
wouldn't have done it.

Two idiots.

-Driving to the backcountry.
-[man] That's another
good title. Yeah.

[Ben] Wearing nothing
but outdated gear that's
outdated for a reason.

Will they survive?
God, we hope not.

We need to eliminate
that part of the gene
pool in those two guys.

The trailer it cuts
through that old lady.

[imitating old lady's voice]
I don't know why they're
on the trail making a movie.

It defeats the purpose,
[imitates explosion]
in theaters.

Oh, yeah.

-I'm moving.
-The belt's perfect.

Actually I pulled
it back a little tighter.

Did you? Good.

-'Cause, just in
case it stretches-
-Little stretch.

Realized your shoes are
laced totally differently.

Yes.

-[Aaron] Is it bothering you?
-Yeah, it will bother me for
about the next six seconds

-I'm gonna leave it.
-I'm gonna remember
that these shoes-

-If I get new shoes,
I'll be lacing--
-You'd purposely do it?

[Ben] What's the bad news?

-[Ben] Did you?
-[man] Yeah.

-[Ben] Okay.
-[man] Good news is
breakfast burritos.

-All right.
-Fuck.

-It'll work for now. Yeah.
-Goddamn. Thank you.

[man] The mediocre news
is either hop into town
trying to get a resupply

or I can leave you with the
food I have tonight then pop out
tomorrow with the resupply.

I'm kind of indifferent.

[man] Figured you've run through
everything since I was along.

-Oh, yeah, we have
literally nothing.
-We have nothing.

When I say nothing, we have--
I have like two small pieces
of pineapple and that's it.

-[man] Yeah.
-This is--

-[Aaron] Thank you.
-[man] No problem.

-Thank you.
-I figure so everything
is still a fire band, so.

[Ben] Aaron's blister between
his toes on his other foot
were fucking gnarly.

[Aaron] Yeah, let me
show you the other one.

[Aaron] I managed to pop this
guy, which helped quite a bit,

and then this guy. This guy
popped a few days ago, hasn't
been bothering me so much.

Me and my feet
are getting tore up.

We wake up in the morning and we
start walking and our feet feel
like we've just walked 23 miles.

-So I think--
-[man] So you're
going back to boots?

I think he's gonna
try the boots.

[Ben] This terrain is just--
it is something else, man.

It's not meant for this.

It's day 14th for me.

-And you?
-I forgot.

I started-- I totally forgot
because I started earlier than
a lot of people on 28th of June

and then I took
my time through it.

I got lost for two
days in Segment 3.

I saw a post on WhiteBlaze
and it was, apparently, Ben.

And then I made the connection
yesterday when I saw him, I'm
like, "Oh, they're not Amish,

these guys-- these guys are
actually the old-timey dudes."

It's mind-blowing really
considering like we're-
-we're complaining and-

and hurt and out
here wearing modern
technology and stuff

and they are trudging on with
all their old school gear and
getting it done just as well so.

It's been-- it's been really
interesting to me to
see your gear because-

well, besides the shoe,
shoes are different,
but for the most part

a lot of this stuff I
have, this kind of have
ultra light cutting-edge

technologies Cuben fiber,
silnylon, the whole bit, you
know, high fill power down.

The designs are very
similar, you know.

Y'all's tent is a catenary cut.

Catenary cuts are still in
production in all the major tarp
or tent-making companies today.

So it's-- there's actually
a lot of similarities
between the gear.

Yeah, you must have had no
idea because with shoes like
that like that's insane, man.

And you're packed like you're
it's still lighter than mine.

I definitely over-pack.

Every time I see-- I mean
just all the gear you have and
everything is very, very smart.

For my next trip, you know, to
pack lighter and definitely and
pack more useful stuff, I guess.

Take care of your
feet with, man.

-[Aaron] I'm gonna do my best.
-Thanks.

-Yeah.
-[man] Good luck
with everything.

Aaron is probably the one
who is, I think, struggling
with the things.

-With the-- with the feet?
-With his feet, yeah.

Mine hurt like hell
but he's-- I think he's
like in genuine pain.

Yeah.

All right.

-But take care of
yourself, man.
-Yeah.

He was talking about getting
some moccasins.

-And I hope--
-Yeah, you know-

-And then the guy is
not getting back from-
-Yeah, so he got back

-to him once, he's like, oh
yeah, I can do them and-
-That was it.

-That was it.
-Yeah.

That was the last of it.
So, well, go get yourself
some food, man.

Enjoy yourselves.

-All right, cool.
-Good luck.

[Ben] And they are really pretty
soft shoes, to begin with.

I'd broken them in about
15 miles before we started.

And they breathe better than
the other boots do when I-

especially when I pull
the trousers over them.

So, let me see here.

Oh man, fuck.

Now I'm getting shooting
nerve pains up my legs
every time I take a step.

It's revolutionary right now.

Really enjoying it.

-Will you stay in
boots till the end?
-I mean we'll see.

I'm curious to see how these
are doing at the end of the day.

But I'll have to just--
just get there.

I got 14 miles to figure it out.

[Nathan] I want to talk
more about the history
of the Colorado Trail.

It's an issue for listeners.

They pointed out after
we last spoke was that
you focused on the 1860s

and white people on
the trail when at this
time Native Americans

were being displaced
from their land and
there was a lot of conflict.

In that era, would you've
encountered lots of Native
Americans on the trail?

[Aaron] Our plan when we
came out here was to
portray businessman

seeking Indian villages
in the Rockies to set up
business deals, trade deals.

And the Ute would have been
all through the route of the
Colorado Trail and elsewhere.

They were all up and
down the Front Range.

On the Plains, you would have
seen Cheyenne-Arapaho, different
bands of Apaches, Crow, Kiowa.

In 1864, there were a series
of major Indian troubles.

The white government raised
Indian fighting regiments

and mostly the Cheyenne but also
the Arapaho and went to war.

And that culminated in
the Sand Creek Massacre,

200 Cheyenne-Arapaho
were murdered by
cavalry from Colorado.

And most of those folks
were displaced to Oklahoma.

Pretty much the Cheyenne-Arapaho
especially have been totally
displaced from Colorado.

There are still Ute
who live here.

You know it's important
to remember that these
communities are not dead

they're still around.

We're definitely aware of
the lack of Indians out here.

It's something that I think
just as white people colonizers
having fun in the wilderness,

it's-- it's important to
remember whose land
this actually is and was.

[man] If you're ready
and willing.

-You're willing?
-I'm willing.

-[man] You're willing to--
-I'm willing.

It's just 14 miles.

It's nothing.

The second shortest day
of the trip mile-wise.

Very hot set.

I could use some water.

If it weren't for the
heat, we'll miss a bath.

Our last few days just can't
get enough water on me, man.

No matter how hard I try.

It's like I can fill up and
I still-- I still don't feel
like I'm getting enough.

Yeah, definitely not.

-The road walk is over,
though. Man, I can't--
-Seriously.

Seriously.

Feet are feeling better.

Still-- still aching
but they feel better.

Yeah.

[Ben] I'm sweating and the
fact that my feet really haven't
been able to dry out much.

[Aaron] They're doing
okay. They're doing okay.

I'm just trying to take every
opportunity I can to
dry them out, you know,

and let them rest, get blood
flowing just to try to prevent
more issues from coming up.

But the nerve pain seems
to have abated at least.
So I'm-- I'm happy about that.

It's gross.

I wonder if I could just
like brain tan it and
make it into a moccasin.

Get enough blisters,
maybe I can.

Talk about a different
kind of conditioning,

a different kind of pain
conditioning involved also

and their feet were
just a different shape
from ours, you know.

But these guys would have grown
up, you know, running 20 miles a
day and barefoot the whole time.

That's just kind of how
children were raised.

So, obviously,
there were cultural
differences between the-

the socio-economic classes
but, you know, poor kids would
kind of get let loose all day.

So, their feet were tough,
their bodies were fit

and they never really
lost that conditioning
just because their--

their livelihoods
depended on their ability to,

you know, move and hunt
and put food on the table.

All right.

Can't see if there are any other
flowers but that's all I see.

♪♪♪

-[man] It's happening?
-Well,

oh, yeah.

-[Aaron] Want me
to knock it out?
-No.

Man.

Well, I had a root canal.

It didn't take.

And so right before I came
out here, he attempted
to redo the root canal

and he still couldn't
get it. So he put just this
temporary crown on there.

And the problem is
that there's very little
of the tooth left

because I've gone
through two root canals.

And I'm just really worried
about that crown breaking,

I'm already having
trouble with it, I think
it's already infected.

Luckily, I had medicine but
still that's gonna kill me, man.

Some antibiotics just
in case I was out here
and this happened, so.

Are out here for a week and
have to leave before we finish.

That's true.

-I'll watch it.
-Think about it.

I'll see how I do
eating as well.

I swallowed that
whole crown, man.

-Yeah, well.
-Yum.

-You'll see that again.
-[laughing]

Yeah, I need to let
my feet out anywhere.

-I'm getting really
bad heat rash.
-Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You got those shoes
on way too long.

I'll take that other one.

-Yeah?
-Yeah.

Thank you, Sir.

Between my feet, they
feel like they got run
over by a semi-truck.

Now my tooth, I mean
my whole face throbbed,
my whole head hurt.

And the fact that they were
both just exhausted, we're
running on fumes for days.

And I know Aaron well enough
to know that it doesn't matter
if his feet literally fall off,

he's not gonna stop.

And I just want to try to keep
pace with him but it's just
he's just moving too slow

which I get it totally
understand hundred
percent, you know.

Guys weren't really traversing
these passes and stuff
like the way we're doing

until later on in the '60s
and early in the '70s

and footwear had been
developed at that point
for this specifically.

And there's just no way we were
gonna know how rough these
shoes were gonna be on her feet

until we actually got out here
and we actually started moving

and we actually started
realizing that,

you know, the toll-- the biggest
toll that's being taken on
us is by far our feet.

[Ben] Just tell him it's kind
of gotten past the point
where it's not even-

this is even more than pestering
anyway this is just stupid.

I have been feeling
stupid for quite some time.

[birds chirping]

[Ben] I just-

[sighs]

I'm not spending 30--another
30 fucking days out here.

And he wants to, like,
do slower days, which
I fully understand.

And he wants to try to--
he says we need to take
care of ourselves better,

which I fully agree
with hundred percent.

There's just no way
to do it like this.

There's just no way.

We could drink.

We don't have the capacity
to carry more water.

So it means stopping
at every stream, drink
as much as we could.

We still won't be
hydrated enough.

Neither one of our packs have
the capacity to carry nearly
the amount of food we need.

We can literally carry nothing
but Snicker bars and we
still wouldn't have enough

calorie intake for
what we'll burn per day.

We've burned six, seven
thousand calories a day.

I'm not doing slower days
and spending more time
going through this yet

over the next-- you know,
adding 10 more days.
Listen, I'm just not doing it.

This doesn't work for me.

So, we disagreed to
disagree and then just
to get through today

as a temporary
solution to everything, so.

At this point the rate
we're going now,
by the time we finish,

we're gonna be in modern
gear with modern shoes
with modern sleeping bags

and we will have just
completed through hike
as a modern through hiker.

The history part we-- almost
kind of abandoned us, not even
us abandon it a long time ago.

And now it's just like
endurance and strength.

This is like whatever.

It's been a long couple of days.

We can't cook food out here.

If it's cold, we can't
even warm ourselves up.

We just have to, you
know, barrel through.

If I can make it over this
pass today, I think at
least I'll feel a little better.

So, hopefully, we only
have another mile, mile
and a half, I'm guessing.

But who knows.

We're moving so much
slower today and yesterday
than we have been.

Our sense of mileage
is completely shot.

All I know is that I guess
I gotta keep walking.

I stopped and slammed
a quick leader.

Definitely feel slow today.

You know, I--

Yeah, I don't know, Ben's
trucking along, but I can't
get him to take care of himself,

I can't get him to
drink water or eat food
or take his shoes off.

So, you know,
it's like, all right.

Today I think he's not
drinking enough water.

I tried. You know, I
was like, "Drink water."

"No, we can't stay hydrated.

"Yeah, if you're not drinking
water, you're not gonna
stay hydrated," you know.

I mean, it's-- I understand
and I-- I'm feeling it, you
know, I'm feeling it, it's fine.

But, yeah, today's hard.

Today's hard for sure.

[Nathan] I want to go
back to the director of
the Trail Foundation,

Bill Manning, for a minute.

We spoke with him last week
and here's what he had
to say about your trip.

[Bill] Anybody who's able to hike a couple hundred miles is--

has sure got a
reason to be proud.

You know, the entire
Colorado Trail involves 89,000 vertical feet of climbing

and his couple of hundred
miles, I think is probably
over 30,000 vertical feet.

It takes a heck of
an effort to do that.

[Nathan] When your equipment
was working and you were on
a good clip and able to hike,

did it- did it live up
to your expectation?

As beautiful as it is, we
should probably move off
before the storms come in.

This is the last place I want
to be if it starts raining.

Me and him talked a good bit.
We talked about everything. We
talked about the trail itself.

We talked about the
experiences we've had.

We've talked about how
we're feeling health-wise.

And I-- I can't speak for Aaron
although we have spoke about it,

but I think the through hike
portion of this is over.

I think regardless of what
goes on from here, we both
need several days to recoup.

What I learned here was
about the physical
conditioning that these people

had under their belts from
childhood that allowed them
to explore these mountains.

It's a totally different kind
of conditioning than what
we've-- what we've got now.

I was the whole time just
experiencing the way that
my body was changing.

I've-- you know, I've easily
lost 20 pounds and I didn't
have 20 pounds to lose.

I think I'm digesting
muscle at this point.

Over the course of two weeks,
I've-- twice I felt like-- I
felt like I was in the period.

I'm not hiking in the gear
as a novelty and that's
what it's become.

-Well, he's doing 200 miles,
a little over 200 miles.
-Two hundred and five.

Two hundred and five.

And I just broke 200 miles
when I-- right up the road.

As miserable as I
feel now, I can't believe
I even made it that far.

I do feel accomplished.

I definitely feel accomplished.

You know, I definitely
don't feel any reservation

about getting what we
got out of this experiment.

The-- the place that we tried
to put ourselves physically,
the-- the-- the wilderness,

this idea of a Western Frontier
exists in the minds of Americans

but it doesn't-- it's not
a real place anymore.

You can't wander into the woods
and be totally removed.

You have to carefully
orchestrate the space
in which that happens.

It's about getting out and
doing it and that's what I
feel like I need to do now.

[Nathan] So after
all the planning

and the work you put into
planning this 500-mile journey,

how disappointed are you
with what's happened so far?

[Aaron] The importance
of slowing down and taking it
in has definitely stuck with me.

[Ben] I'd convinced myself that
wilderness didn't exist because
I didn't spend enough time

in those places for them
to sink in that they
were actually there

'cause I just-- just wanted
to push best time
and coming back out.

And spending five days in the
woods and just taking it and--
and seeing every little rock

I can and every pebble and
every tree and every stream and
every marmot and every pike

and every bird and every
other creature that's out
here is-- has been invaluable.

It was a lesson I learned
back in 2016 that I,
like, I wouldn't change.

[Aaron] When we come out and
do things like this, now doing
less mileage, taking our time,

having some rest time, some
downtime to just take it all in
has made a big difference.

And I think that's something
that I've taken from the trail
in a-- in a very concrete way.

And just trying to be more
about enjoying the journey

even when the journey
is like the most pain
I have ever been in.

[Ben] Emerging comes in in small
moments and those small moments
you have to absorb them

while they happen, and then
they pass on like anything else.

And so my mindset has been
to just, you know, take in those
moments when they happen,

appreciate them,
and then move on.

And I've gotten more
out of living history

and more out of just like
research and education

by doing it that way.

[Aaron] And I do think
there's something to be
said for taking action.

Doing the thing, regardless
of what it is, regardless of
whether you succeed or fail,

failure is gonna outnumber
your successes a million to one

no matter what it is
that you try to do,

but just do the thing
because that's the only way
that, like, anyone makes

any kind of progress
and also the only way
that you grow as a person

is if you just do the
thing even if it sucks,
especially if it sucks.

Do the thing.

I think that's pretty good.
[chuckling]

♪ Is it in your skin
Is it in your bones ♪

♪ All your honor undertow

♪ And there it goes
The middle road ♪

♪ There goes everything untold

♪ Ooohhh, for the love

♪ Ooohhh for the long

♪ Ooohhh, one by one

♪ Your favorite son

♪ It was Arizona, the 17th

♪ The howl of knowing
What's underneath ♪

♪ And I'm so sorry
I couldn't speak ♪

♪ So sweet

♪ A symptom of the overrun

♪ A blinder trust
The whole lump sum ♪

♪ A warmer room
A hallowed flood ♪

♪ A film, a page
Of what's to come ♪

♪ Ooohhh, for the love

♪ Ooohhh, for the long run

♪ Ooohhh, one by one
Your favorite son ♪

♪ It was Arizona, the 17th

♪ The howl of knowing
What's underneath ♪

♪ And I'm so sorry
I couldn't speak ♪

♪ I'm so sorry
I couldn't speak ♪

♪ I'm so sorry
I couldn't speak ♪

♪ So sweet

[music ends]