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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:37,776 --> 00:00:39,343 If I had a chance to say, 2 00:00:39,474 --> 00:00:41,867 "Would you want an investigation like that again? 3 00:00:41,998 --> 00:00:46,350 Three homicides, connected with satanic cults?" 4 00:00:46,481 --> 00:00:48,700 I'd say, "Are you crazy?" It destroyed my life. 5 00:00:48,831 --> 00:00:51,268 I got divorced in the process, in the middle of it. 6 00:00:51,399 --> 00:00:54,924 It was... it consumed me. 7 00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:58,493 Carl Drew was initially charged with two murders, 8 00:00:58,623 --> 00:01:02,366 that of Doreen Levesque and Karen Marsden. 9 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:15,336 Carl Drew was sentenced for all of his natural life to be in prison. 10 00:01:19,601 --> 00:01:24,432 There were many aspects that corroborated Carl's innocence story 11 00:01:24,562 --> 00:01:28,218 that had been omitted 12 00:01:28,349 --> 00:01:33,093 or trampled under at trial. 13 00:01:38,228 --> 00:01:41,362 Leah Johnson was Carl Drew's girlfriend. 14 00:01:41,492 --> 00:01:45,235 And, uh, she had Karen Marsden's ring. 15 00:01:47,846 --> 00:01:51,459 The ring placed Carl at the scene of the homicide. 16 00:01:51,589 --> 00:01:55,071 We tracked down Leah Johnson and she said, 17 00:01:55,202 --> 00:01:57,639 "Oh, yeah, you know, the whole ring story, that's a bullshit story." 18 00:02:05,734 --> 00:02:07,866 Carol Fletcher, she was another prostitute. 19 00:02:07,997 --> 00:02:10,782 We spoke to her several times. 20 00:02:10,913 --> 00:02:15,265 Carol witnessed Robin Murphy killing Karen Marsden. 21 00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:24,840 They have, you know, made their case on Robin being a central figure in this 22 00:02:24,970 --> 00:02:29,410 and her being a main perpetrator instead of a victim. 23 00:02:29,540 --> 00:02:33,544 Robin had a very rough upbringing, 24 00:02:33,675 --> 00:02:35,155 a very troubled, troubled background. 25 00:02:40,029 --> 00:02:43,554 I was molested and raped by Andy Maltais, starting at age 11. 26 00:02:46,949 --> 00:02:50,300 Andy was a pedophile, basically. 27 00:02:50,431 --> 00:02:52,781 He liked young girls. 28 00:02:52,911 --> 00:02:56,567 Andy Maltais... he was gonna give me a ride home. 29 00:02:58,961 --> 00:03:01,920 He repeatedly raped me. 30 00:03:02,051 --> 00:03:07,448 He would drive around and find these young girls. 31 00:03:07,578 --> 00:03:10,755 People like that, they're predators. 32 00:03:13,367 --> 00:03:15,934 I went to the police station and told them about Andy. 33 00:03:16,065 --> 00:03:19,286 They wouldn't even take my statement 'cause I was only 12. 34 00:03:19,416 --> 00:03:21,462 They didn't care. 35 00:03:24,552 --> 00:03:25,727 No. 36 00:03:25,857 --> 00:03:28,295 You had, you know, girls 37 00:03:28,425 --> 00:03:31,472 being exploited and they just weren't particularly concerned 38 00:03:31,602 --> 00:03:34,997 about the exploitation factor of those girls. 39 00:03:35,127 --> 00:03:38,087 Barbara Raposa had gone to high school with Robin Murphy. 40 00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:41,351 I really didn't know much about Barbara until we found her body. 41 00:03:45,050 --> 00:03:49,185 Andy Maltais, I didn't say he murdered Barbara 42 00:03:49,316 --> 00:03:53,668 because of what he did to me, but so that he couldn't do it to anyone else. 43 00:03:53,798 --> 00:03:56,323 And it worked. 44 00:03:56,453 --> 00:03:59,935 Without Robin Murphy, they wouldn't have had a case at all. 45 00:04:00,065 --> 00:04:04,374 How do we know what is the truth today? 46 00:04:04,505 --> 00:04:06,376 I don't think you do. 47 00:04:09,988 --> 00:04:12,469 It does not stand to reason 48 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,516 that one 17-year-old woman 49 00:04:15,646 --> 00:04:19,476 would be at three separate murders 50 00:04:19,607 --> 00:04:21,652 committed by separate men 51 00:04:21,783 --> 00:04:25,003 at separate times in separate places. 52 00:04:25,134 --> 00:04:27,832 It just doesn't make sense. 53 00:04:27,963 --> 00:04:30,792 How can one person be in all these places? 54 00:04:30,922 --> 00:04:31,836 What is she, Forrest Gump? 55 00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:44,213 Lenny Bruce famously said that in the halls of justice 56 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:46,563 the only justice is in the halls. 57 00:05:46,694 --> 00:05:48,348 And this is one of those cases. 58 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:10,413 Carl Drew went to prison based entirely on the word of these women 59 00:06:10,544 --> 00:06:13,590 whose stories never matched up, not once, not ever. 60 00:06:13,721 --> 00:06:15,026 Not once on the stand, 61 00:06:15,157 --> 00:06:16,854 not once in interviews with the cops, 62 00:06:16,985 --> 00:06:17,986 nothing added up. 63 00:06:22,338 --> 00:06:24,514 Mike Cutler was appointed to me as an attorney, 64 00:06:24,645 --> 00:06:25,733 and he ended up putting 65 00:06:25,863 --> 00:06:27,125 all this stuff together 66 00:06:27,256 --> 00:06:28,779 and we submitted it in the court, you know? 67 00:06:35,177 --> 00:06:37,962 A motion for new trial 68 00:06:38,093 --> 00:06:41,313 is designed to bring new evidence, 69 00:06:41,444 --> 00:06:45,448 or evidence that wasn't admitted at trial, into court 70 00:06:45,579 --> 00:06:48,799 so that a new trial motion judge can look at that evidence. 71 00:06:53,325 --> 00:06:57,242 And the judge granted that motion. 72 00:06:57,373 --> 00:06:58,983 We were granted the evidentiary hearing. 73 00:06:59,114 --> 00:07:00,594 We produced the evidence. 74 00:07:00,724 --> 00:07:02,770 Everybody who said, 75 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:04,946 "This is what happened" recanted and said they were coerced. 76 00:07:22,485 --> 00:07:27,055 I got a call from the assistant district attorney. 77 00:07:27,185 --> 00:07:32,800 He called me and asked me, "Could I go to the trial with them?" And I said, 78 00:07:32,930 --> 00:07:34,889 "Yes, it's too important a case to have to retry." 79 00:07:37,674 --> 00:07:41,417 These cases ultimately, unless you have forensic evidence, 80 00:07:41,548 --> 00:07:44,115 uh, come down to a credibility contest. 81 00:07:47,467 --> 00:07:52,472 The witnesses, Fletcher and Johnson, were in tough shape. 82 00:07:52,602 --> 00:07:54,865 Yet, they kept it together and they showed up. 83 00:08:11,752 --> 00:08:15,277 Carol Fletcher, she said, "Carl shouldn't even be in jail at all." 84 00:08:22,153 --> 00:08:24,199 She said, "He wasn't there, 85 00:08:24,329 --> 00:08:27,463 what happened at the trial was that we were all coerced, 86 00:08:27,594 --> 00:08:31,598 we were all threatened. That, you know, they put us in jail or whatever." 87 00:08:31,728 --> 00:08:34,775 She's like, "And, of course, we all have criminal backgrounds, 88 00:08:34,905 --> 00:08:36,951 we were probably all on probation. 89 00:08:37,081 --> 00:08:39,910 And so we just said whatever it was they wanted us to say." 90 00:08:40,041 --> 00:08:42,913 There is some amount of witness manipulation 91 00:08:43,044 --> 00:08:46,134 that a prosecutor is permitted to do. 92 00:08:46,264 --> 00:08:49,877 It's just that telling someone that you're not gonna send them to prison 93 00:08:50,007 --> 00:08:53,707 if they testify for you is, uh, inherently coercive. 94 00:09:01,018 --> 00:09:03,543 Right. Yeah. Yeah. 95 00:09:07,198 --> 00:09:08,286 This is a class issue. 96 00:09:08,417 --> 00:09:10,419 Where poor people go to prison. 97 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:12,552 They don't have access to defense attorneys, 98 00:09:12,682 --> 00:09:16,207 they don't have people clamoring for their release. 99 00:09:16,338 --> 00:09:19,036 From the very beginning of this case, I've told these people 100 00:09:19,167 --> 00:09:22,257 that I couldn't read and I couldn't write and all that stuff. 101 00:09:22,387 --> 00:09:25,173 And they end up using that and took advantage of that. 102 00:09:25,303 --> 00:09:28,350 Knowing that I couldn't, you know, 103 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,005 I couldn't understand a lot of the stuff that they were telling me about. 104 00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:34,399 This is another example, in this particular case, 105 00:09:34,530 --> 00:09:38,882 you know, we would call it in Boston, here's a poor whiskey tango dude with no family, 106 00:09:39,013 --> 00:09:40,580 and it was very easy to railroad him into prison. 107 00:09:49,676 --> 00:09:52,026 They weren't the greatest witnesses in the world. 108 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:54,942 They were vigorously cross-examined. 109 00:09:55,072 --> 00:09:57,684 Leah Johnson in particular. 110 00:09:57,814 --> 00:10:00,861 And, as I recall correctly, she was sitting in the back of the courtroom, 111 00:10:00,991 --> 00:10:05,213 she nodded out and I think fell over, 112 00:10:05,343 --> 00:10:08,129 uh, which... certainly didn't enhance her credibility. 113 00:10:12,568 --> 00:10:15,615 All of the people who had been involved in the investigation 114 00:10:15,745 --> 00:10:19,096 were brought out of retirement or located. 115 00:10:19,227 --> 00:10:22,099 All these people were brought back to trial and said, you know, 116 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:25,276 "These are all drug-addicted street workers, you can't believe 'em." 117 00:10:44,469 --> 00:10:47,081 She was comfortable with us. 118 00:10:47,211 --> 00:10:48,996 We weren't intimidating her. We didn't have any problems with her. 119 00:10:49,126 --> 00:10:50,040 We got along with her very well. 120 00:11:01,573 --> 00:11:05,534 The testimony of Carol Fletcher and originally Leah, 121 00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:09,669 everything fit in with the evidence that we found at the scene. 122 00:11:26,598 --> 00:11:32,387 We did get the rental car that Carol had driven with that group that night 123 00:11:32,517 --> 00:11:36,260 and had it tested by the state police crime lab for blood. Never found any blood. 124 00:11:47,445 --> 00:11:50,971 Well, if they didn't use that vehicle, if they used another vehicle. 125 00:11:51,101 --> 00:11:53,016 They could have gone back the next day. 126 00:12:01,372 --> 00:12:06,116 That's... we didn't find any blood in the car because she was killed outside the car. 127 00:12:06,247 --> 00:12:09,641 And we didn't find any blood in the car because if the story, 128 00:12:09,772 --> 00:12:14,298 the rumors that we heard, that she had been cut up and thrown in dumpsters... 129 00:12:14,429 --> 00:12:18,128 Yes, you are. 130 00:12:18,259 --> 00:12:22,089 -Absolutely. 131 00:12:22,219 --> 00:12:23,307 But if they... 132 00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:31,576 There's no physical evidence at all tying Carl Drew to these crimes. 133 00:12:31,707 --> 00:12:34,231 Not a single iota of physical evidence. 134 00:12:34,362 --> 00:12:37,104 Karen was killed... where she was killed, 135 00:12:37,234 --> 00:12:39,541 off Roberts Street, Family Beach, in Westport. 136 00:12:39,671 --> 00:12:42,239 That's where her clothing was found, that's where her hair was found. 137 00:12:42,370 --> 00:12:46,156 -No. 138 00:13:00,083 --> 00:13:04,348 That should have reopened this case and earned Carl Drew a new trial. 139 00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,829 But no one wants to relive this case. 140 00:13:16,273 --> 00:13:18,319 I called Robin Murphy as our witness. 141 00:13:18,449 --> 00:13:21,061 I had her parole hearing in which she said she had lied. 142 00:13:30,287 --> 00:13:32,159 There was a palpable sense of evil in the room. 143 00:13:32,289 --> 00:13:34,770 At least, to my perception. 144 00:13:34,901 --> 00:13:39,819 And she... spit out her testimony. 145 00:13:39,949 --> 00:13:43,474 And she couldn't deny the fact that she had 146 00:13:43,605 --> 00:13:45,302 recanted under oath at the parole hearing. 147 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:57,097 But she continued to express hostility towards Carl 148 00:13:57,227 --> 00:13:59,621 and tried to say that he had done it, 149 00:13:59,751 --> 00:14:02,537 uh, despite her saying that he hadn't done it. 150 00:14:05,714 --> 00:14:08,282 If there was a new trial granted, 151 00:14:08,412 --> 00:14:12,939 and you can't count on Robin's reliability and testimony, 152 00:14:13,069 --> 00:14:16,464 and Carol is now a defense witness and Leah is a defense witness, 153 00:14:16,594 --> 00:14:18,466 then what evidence do you have? 154 00:14:18,596 --> 00:14:20,250 'Cause there wasn't a shred of actual evidence. 155 00:14:20,381 --> 00:14:23,819 There's no evidence. 156 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:25,647 There's no evidence that he's guilty. 157 00:14:25,777 --> 00:14:28,824 The only evidence was Robin Murphy and Carol Fletcher 158 00:14:28,955 --> 00:14:31,087 saying that they were there and saw it happen, 159 00:14:31,218 --> 00:14:34,569 uh, and they've both denied it. 160 00:14:34,699 --> 00:14:39,269 I sure thought that, if I had a straight-up judge, 161 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,665 I should have been entitled to the benefit of the doubt. 162 00:14:43,795 --> 00:14:45,014 But I didn't have a straight-up judge. 163 00:14:49,801 --> 00:14:51,151 They just completely shut it down. 164 00:14:59,768 --> 00:15:02,553 Me and Paul and Mike Cutler, we were shocked and amazed. 165 00:15:09,734 --> 00:15:12,694 The judge, um, 166 00:15:12,824 --> 00:15:19,135 who I was trying the new trial motion to, 167 00:15:19,266 --> 00:15:24,227 I later heard rumors was having lunch every day with the former prosecutor on the case, 168 00:15:24,358 --> 00:15:27,361 to be sure that everything was going copacetically. 169 00:15:46,249 --> 00:15:50,514 The judge said, "You know what? A new trial isn't gonna be granted. It's done. 170 00:15:50,645 --> 00:15:52,777 He'll stay in jail forever, 171 00:15:52,908 --> 00:15:56,781 and she'll still be able to go out and get parole if she can. 172 00:15:56,912 --> 00:15:59,219 And that's it. We don't wanna hear it anymore." 173 00:15:59,349 --> 00:16:01,830 It was a fucking huge blunder. 174 00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:05,660 It's been a difficult process for me to get into this case. 175 00:16:05,790 --> 00:16:08,184 A case I worked on for 11 years. 176 00:16:08,315 --> 00:16:10,012 Didn't work out for my client. 177 00:16:10,143 --> 00:16:12,580 Carl's done 40 years for something that he didn't do 178 00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:15,322 and all of these other people have moved on. 179 00:16:15,452 --> 00:16:17,367 Carl's still in prison. 180 00:16:17,498 --> 00:16:20,849 Carl has exhausted his appeals. 181 00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:24,287 He obviously thought he had a good case for an appeal. 182 00:16:24,418 --> 00:16:27,334 That failed. He gets no more bite at the apple. 183 00:16:27,464 --> 00:16:31,164 Unless there's some new evidence that arises. 184 00:17:35,489 --> 00:17:39,493 I lived in Harbor Terrace in the top row, um, 185 00:17:39,623 --> 00:17:44,193 two doors... two entryways down from Sonny. 186 00:17:45,977 --> 00:17:47,979 My father just wasn't in the picture. 187 00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:52,854 And, uh, in the projects that wasn't abnormal. 188 00:17:52,984 --> 00:17:58,599 And my mother, she died June 14, 2013. 189 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:02,559 And when she passed, 190 00:18:02,690 --> 00:18:06,128 I cleaned out her apartment and I found a baby book 191 00:18:06,259 --> 00:18:09,262 which had like my first steps, when my first steps were, 192 00:18:09,392 --> 00:18:13,440 my first toy, and, um... 193 00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:16,095 And a picture of Carl Drew. 194 00:18:19,533 --> 00:18:23,667 He was the first one to come see me in the hospital. 195 00:18:23,798 --> 00:18:27,541 I found a, uh, a Facebook page that Carl had 196 00:18:27,671 --> 00:18:30,370 and he wanted me to go see him. So I did. 197 00:18:33,721 --> 00:18:37,072 I asked him if he might know who my father is. 198 00:18:37,203 --> 00:18:41,250 Um, and then he ended up telling me there's a chance that he could be my father. 199 00:19:17,243 --> 00:19:20,115 My mother wasn't physically abusive. 200 00:19:20,246 --> 00:19:24,598 You know, but she, uh, you know, she was a drug addict and a prostitute. 201 00:19:24,728 --> 00:19:28,819 And, uh, you know, so I witnessed a lot of like fighting, 202 00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:33,781 a lot of... different stuff, and, uh... 203 00:19:33,911 --> 00:19:35,652 I started acting up in school. 204 00:19:35,783 --> 00:19:38,568 And, um... they, uh... 205 00:19:38,699 --> 00:19:43,225 they recommended they put me in like special needs, um... 206 00:19:43,356 --> 00:19:46,228 They didn't know what was wrong with me, they recommended me to do like counseling. 207 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,927 So when I was probably about, I don't know, five or six, 208 00:19:50,058 --> 00:19:53,017 I had told my mother that, um, 209 00:19:53,148 --> 00:19:57,718 I saw these people up on the roof killing a girl. 210 00:20:02,462 --> 00:20:03,854 I saw three for sure. 211 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,990 I'm pretty sure one is Robin. The other two I'm, uh, 212 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,385 100 percent sure was Sonny and Carl Davis. 213 00:20:15,431 --> 00:20:18,478 -There's a lot of commotion, a lot of screaming. 214 00:20:18,608 --> 00:20:20,871 I don't remember how I got up there. 215 00:20:21,002 --> 00:20:23,047 Just a lot of yelling. 216 00:20:23,178 --> 00:20:25,224 I think I was crying. 217 00:20:28,966 --> 00:20:30,794 No, it's kind of a blur. 218 00:20:32,883 --> 00:20:33,536 She would have been dead. 219 00:20:36,626 --> 00:20:39,499 There was a woman on the roof that... 220 00:20:39,629 --> 00:20:40,804 that Carl Davis was holding back. 221 00:20:44,112 --> 00:20:47,376 Well, Carl Davis was probably pulling, um... 222 00:20:48,812 --> 00:20:49,857 Robin off her. 223 00:20:49,987 --> 00:20:51,293 Karen. 224 00:21:04,567 --> 00:21:06,917 I'm waiting for Carl to call. 225 00:21:07,048 --> 00:21:09,877 Um... he has limited access 226 00:21:10,007 --> 00:21:12,009 to email through a prison system, 227 00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,099 so I sent him an email and it takes him a while to get it. 228 00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:16,840 And then I have to wait till he gets phone time. 229 00:21:16,971 --> 00:21:19,016 And then can call me at any minute, 230 00:21:19,147 --> 00:21:21,280 and I just kind of have to be on standby for when he calls. 231 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:29,244 The witness is interesting 'cause I'm not really sure what to believe. 232 00:21:29,375 --> 00:21:33,204 I mean, aside from the interview, I spent the whole day with him. 233 00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:37,208 You know, I was in Fall River, I spent the whole day with him, 234 00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:40,081 I went to lunch with him, I talked to him, I saw his ID. 235 00:21:40,211 --> 00:21:43,606 So there's no question he is who he says he is. 236 00:21:43,737 --> 00:21:50,178 And I really believe that he believes what he's saying. 237 00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:55,096 There's also the issue of him being presumably Carl's son. 238 00:21:55,226 --> 00:21:58,839 You know, so he has that motivation 239 00:21:58,969 --> 00:22:04,018 to kind of at least tailor his memory to want to help Carl. 240 00:22:04,148 --> 00:22:05,889 I don't think he's doing that on purpose. 241 00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:10,024 But, um, it's possible. 242 00:22:10,154 --> 00:22:12,635 I think the challenge in all this is that everybody has a piece of the puzzle. 243 00:22:12,766 --> 00:22:15,159 And we have to step back and look at all the pieces 244 00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:17,597 and put that together into a collective story. 245 00:22:17,727 --> 00:22:20,121 And that's what tells you what happened. 246 00:22:20,251 --> 00:22:23,820 -Okay. This is Carl. 247 00:22:27,084 --> 00:22:30,087 Hello. This is a prepaid collect call from... 248 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:35,702 Carl. Hey. 249 00:22:35,832 --> 00:22:37,878 Carl, can you hear me? 250 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,273 Okay, so I met with the witness. 251 00:22:42,404 --> 00:22:45,842 And, um, he told me about the roof of Harbor Terrace. 252 00:22:45,973 --> 00:22:48,062 And I assume he's told you the same thing? 253 00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:01,510 I do think there's another possibility that I wanna ask you about, I guess. 254 00:23:03,469 --> 00:23:05,906 So starting with Doreen Levesque. 255 00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:07,516 She's the girl under the bleachers. 256 00:23:07,647 --> 00:23:09,692 She's killed first. 257 00:23:13,609 --> 00:23:17,004 Doreen Levesque, her head and face were so badly distorted 258 00:23:17,134 --> 00:23:18,571 from the large stones 259 00:23:18,701 --> 00:23:20,964 that they all threw 260 00:23:21,095 --> 00:23:23,053 at her face. 261 00:23:25,012 --> 00:23:26,927 She was tied up with fishing wire. 262 00:23:27,057 --> 00:23:29,059 Her head was crushed with rocks. 263 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:32,149 She was posed in a sexual position. 264 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,980 This is something that a male serial killer does to a woman, usually. 265 00:23:40,723 --> 00:23:44,727 Then right after Doreen Levesque, like within 25 days, Barbara Raposa is killed. 266 00:23:44,858 --> 00:23:47,904 And those two murders are not just similar. 267 00:23:48,035 --> 00:23:50,167 They are the same. 268 00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:56,086 Her hands were tied behind her back also. 269 00:23:56,217 --> 00:23:58,262 And they had smashed her in the face with a rock 270 00:23:58,393 --> 00:24:00,613 and her face was completely smashed in. 271 00:24:06,096 --> 00:24:07,750 Uh, yes. 272 00:24:10,579 --> 00:24:12,755 What always confused me is that Robin claims 273 00:24:12,886 --> 00:24:15,279 that two different people committed these murders. 274 00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:18,021 Robin said that you killed Doreen Levesque, 275 00:24:18,152 --> 00:24:19,980 and she knows that because Karen told her. 276 00:24:41,262 --> 00:24:44,613 Then she said that Andy killed Barbara Raposa. 277 00:24:48,225 --> 00:24:51,620 Andy Maltais told me a story. 278 00:24:51,751 --> 00:24:55,276 That angels carried him over Barbara while she was being murdered. 279 00:25:08,289 --> 00:25:11,858 Yes, it is. It... it does seem very strange, doesn't it? 280 00:25:11,988 --> 00:25:16,340 You know, Andy, he always said he wasn't there. 281 00:25:16,471 --> 00:25:19,779 I always thought there was something about that that he didn't tell me. 282 00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:20,997 But I couldn't get it out of him. 283 00:25:23,478 --> 00:25:25,872 So I just wanna put this out there. 284 00:25:26,002 --> 00:25:29,223 I think Andy Maltais killed both Doreen and Barbara. 285 00:25:33,923 --> 00:25:35,969 -Stick with me. 286 00:25:36,099 --> 00:25:39,494 So if you look at the location of Barbara and Doreen's murder, 287 00:25:39,625 --> 00:25:41,583 they are within miles of each other. 288 00:25:41,714 --> 00:25:45,195 And Andy Maltais lives directly in the middle of them. 289 00:25:45,326 --> 00:25:46,806 -So that could be a coincidence. 290 00:25:46,936 --> 00:25:49,069 But that would be a huge coincidence 291 00:25:49,199 --> 00:25:53,160 that two young women would be murdered in the exact same way 292 00:25:53,290 --> 00:25:56,685 within six miles of each other and both within two miles of Andy's house. 293 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,037 You met Andy at one point. Right? 294 00:26:05,651 --> 00:26:07,914 Walpole's the name of a prison? Right? 295 00:26:14,311 --> 00:26:15,704 Okay. 296 00:26:24,626 --> 00:26:28,412 Okay. Well, get this. The police knew Andy had a criminal history 297 00:26:28,543 --> 00:26:31,111 that is very similar to these murders. 298 00:26:35,071 --> 00:26:39,293 When I had heard that my dad had raped some woman 299 00:26:39,423 --> 00:26:43,471 and heard that he was a pedophile and mentally unstable, I started researching it. 300 00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:47,127 So I says, "Well, I'm gonna dig a little deeper." 301 00:26:47,257 --> 00:26:48,868 So I called my mother. 302 00:26:52,219 --> 00:26:56,353 She says, "When I got together with your dad," 303 00:26:56,484 --> 00:26:59,400 she said, "he was just coming out of jail." 304 00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:02,272 I said, "Jail? For what?" 305 00:27:02,403 --> 00:27:06,276 And she says, "Well, he got a charge for rape." 306 00:27:06,407 --> 00:27:09,932 Andy had a background of doing things like that. 307 00:27:10,063 --> 00:27:13,544 He was arrested up in the Freetown State Forest 308 00:27:13,675 --> 00:27:17,287 by the state police back in 1957 309 00:27:17,418 --> 00:27:21,030 for picking up girls from a junior high in Fall River 310 00:27:21,161 --> 00:27:23,598 and taking them up to the, what they call the forest, 311 00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:26,296 attempting to rape or raping the girls. 312 00:27:26,427 --> 00:27:30,257 And my former station commander is one of the people that arrested him. 313 00:27:30,387 --> 00:27:32,302 He did some house of correction time on that. 314 00:27:32,433 --> 00:27:36,350 Back then, things would slip through the cracks. 315 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,049 We didn't have the computer databases that we have today. 316 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:44,314 People moved from one town to the next. Not just Andy. 317 00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:46,926 And there was really no way to track them. It just simply got overlooked. 318 00:27:54,150 --> 00:27:56,326 Yeah, and the crazy thing is that both Doreen and Barbara 319 00:27:56,457 --> 00:27:58,938 were tied at their hands and ankles 320 00:27:59,068 --> 00:28:01,418 with what they called a white, twisted twine. 321 00:28:01,549 --> 00:28:05,031 And when you look into it more, it was a white fishing line. 322 00:28:05,161 --> 00:28:08,251 And not only is it the same at both murder scenes, 323 00:28:08,382 --> 00:28:10,340 but Andy had that in the trunk of his car when they searched it. 324 00:28:15,171 --> 00:28:18,131 Andy Maltais, he had a bag of tricks 325 00:28:18,261 --> 00:28:20,350 that were all sexual items that he used-- 326 00:28:20,481 --> 00:28:23,092 vibrators and rope and handcuffs. 327 00:28:28,489 --> 00:28:30,752 And I spoke to one of his victims, 328 00:28:30,883 --> 00:28:33,233 and she said that Andy would do the same thing to her. 329 00:28:39,369 --> 00:28:43,069 Andy had a freshwater fishing pole. I remember that. 330 00:28:43,199 --> 00:28:48,030 He had rope in his trunk of his car, with his sicko sex toys. 331 00:28:53,383 --> 00:28:55,255 He would use rope on me. 332 00:28:55,385 --> 00:28:58,998 Tie me up, my wrists to my ankles. 333 00:28:59,128 --> 00:29:02,001 I was petrified. I was petrified. 334 00:29:06,701 --> 00:29:09,399 So Andy killing both Doreen and Barbara makes sense. 335 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:13,795 Especially considering that he was the one who was originally 336 00:29:13,926 --> 00:29:16,755 suggesting that you were the killer of Doreen Levesque. 337 00:29:25,676 --> 00:29:30,203 He knew a state police officer that I had worked with. 338 00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:32,683 And he went to the state police officer 339 00:29:32,814 --> 00:29:36,383 and said he knew something about the Levesque murder. 340 00:29:36,513 --> 00:29:38,864 So I met him one day. 341 00:29:38,994 --> 00:29:42,389 We snuck him into the state police barracks in Dartmouth and talked to him. 342 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:44,565 And when he got there he said, "Well, I don't really know anything." 343 00:29:48,656 --> 00:29:52,094 Well, yes... 344 00:29:52,225 --> 00:29:55,489 But then he brought Robin and Karen Marsden in. 345 00:29:55,619 --> 00:29:59,798 they came out with the story about Carl Drew having done it. 346 00:30:05,238 --> 00:30:09,546 Andy associated with all those girls-- 347 00:30:09,677 --> 00:30:13,550 Barbara, Robin, Karen Marsden. 348 00:30:13,681 --> 00:30:15,204 I never really understood that. 349 00:30:20,035 --> 00:30:23,865 So if Andy killed Doreen and Barbara, that still leaves us with Karen Marsden. 350 00:30:25,867 --> 00:30:28,304 And the thing about Karen is that she had told 351 00:30:28,435 --> 00:30:32,613 lots of people that she witnessed the first murder. 352 00:31:06,777 --> 00:31:09,432 So in that case, Karen saw Andy kill Doreen Levesque 353 00:31:09,563 --> 00:31:12,305 and could potentially testify against him. 354 00:31:12,435 --> 00:31:15,917 And there's actually a record to support that. 355 00:31:16,048 --> 00:31:19,181 Karen's grandmother actually told the Fall River police 356 00:31:19,312 --> 00:31:23,577 that Andy had threatened Karen before she was killed. 357 00:31:23,707 --> 00:31:29,235 Andy told her that he thought he might be arrested for the murder of Barbara. 358 00:31:29,365 --> 00:31:32,629 And that if he was, he felt Karen's safety was in jeopardy. 359 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,198 So Andy had threatened Karen's grandmother 360 00:31:36,329 --> 00:31:38,766 that Karen might be hurt if he was arrested. 361 00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,290 And the crazy part is that's exactly what happened. 362 00:31:49,646 --> 00:31:52,519 So the police knew that Andy and Karen had this relationship 363 00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:55,609 and that Andy had threatened Karen, but they never investigated. 364 00:31:55,739 --> 00:32:00,962 They thought Andy had an alibi. They thought Andy was in jail at the time of Karen's murder. 365 00:32:01,093 --> 00:32:05,401 But in Massachusetts at the time, if you were arrested you had to be arraigned 366 00:32:05,532 --> 00:32:10,711 within 24 hours, and Andy's lawyer had arranged for bail. 367 00:32:13,757 --> 00:32:18,545 The first time I met Andy, he was already in court. 368 00:32:18,675 --> 00:32:22,157 He was in the prisoners' area. So I went over. I told him who I was. 369 00:32:22,288 --> 00:32:24,464 Told him to be quiet. 370 00:32:24,594 --> 00:32:30,905 Uh, and, um, I told him we either arrange for bail, 371 00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:34,909 or I'd have to go see him at the jail. 372 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,564 But whatever happened, just to be quiet. 373 00:32:37,694 --> 00:32:40,219 And, um, he was arraigned. 374 00:32:40,349 --> 00:32:44,266 And I did arrange for bail for him. 375 00:32:49,141 --> 00:32:50,969 I even called the Fall River District Court, 376 00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:52,971 and they looked up Andy's records for me, 377 00:32:53,101 --> 00:32:56,452 and they confirmed that Andy was released on February 8th, 378 00:32:56,583 --> 00:32:58,237 hours before the murder of Karen Marsden. 379 00:33:00,717 --> 00:33:03,111 Hello? 380 00:33:07,028 --> 00:33:10,162 Andy Maltais, his general demeanor 381 00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:14,253 was just, um... 382 00:33:14,383 --> 00:33:17,778 almost accepting of his own behavior. 383 00:33:17,908 --> 00:33:20,520 You know, didn't... he didn't see the world the way you and I do. 384 00:33:23,566 --> 00:33:26,439 When you look at the autopsy reports for all three women, 385 00:33:26,569 --> 00:33:30,486 even though they never found Karen's body, they found her skull, 386 00:33:30,617 --> 00:33:33,794 and on Karen's skull there was a crush injury. 387 00:33:33,924 --> 00:33:37,841 Essentially, her skull was crushed kind of right on her left forehead. 388 00:33:37,972 --> 00:33:41,497 Which is exactly the same as the other two murders. 389 00:33:41,628 --> 00:33:45,762 All three women died of a skull fracture with a large, blunt object. 390 00:33:45,893 --> 00:33:48,548 So as far as we know, Karen is killed in the exact same way as Doreen, 391 00:33:48,678 --> 00:33:50,767 the exact same way as Barbara, 392 00:33:50,898 --> 00:33:54,945 and Andy has a motive to kill her and no alibi for her murder. 393 00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:57,644 -So that still leaves us with the witness on the roof 394 00:33:57,774 --> 00:33:59,776 of Harbor Terrace. 395 00:34:08,655 --> 00:34:10,700 Yes. He was not there. 396 00:34:13,747 --> 00:34:16,097 Hundred percent sure he was not on that roof. 397 00:34:19,927 --> 00:34:22,930 I know for a fact that Carl Davis and Sonny was on the roof. 398 00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:26,325 Carl Davis was holding somebody. 399 00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:27,543 And... 400 00:34:29,763 --> 00:34:32,070 I'm pretty sure that... that was Robin. 401 00:34:37,684 --> 00:34:39,816 I mean, there's a lot of possibilities there, right? 402 00:34:39,947 --> 00:34:43,429 Maybe the witness got the day wrong. Maybe he's off by a year. 403 00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:45,822 Maybe he was four, not five. 404 00:34:45,953 --> 00:34:48,608 He wasn't even 100 percent sure that Robin was on the roof. 405 00:34:48,738 --> 00:34:52,351 He said he probably... he said it was probably Robin. 406 00:34:52,481 --> 00:34:55,136 -You'd met Carl Davis, right? 407 00:35:01,142 --> 00:35:03,797 Did you know he was involved with Robin or Karen or Andy? 408 00:35:15,722 --> 00:35:19,595 So I've been talking to Robin, um, through email. 409 00:35:19,726 --> 00:35:22,990 -She gets a limited amount of email at the prison. 410 00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:27,603 And I've really, really been pushing her to let me come back in 411 00:35:27,734 --> 00:35:30,084 and interview her on camera, and she's agreed. 412 00:35:30,215 --> 00:35:31,912 -I have not told her all this. 413 00:35:32,042 --> 00:35:34,001 I have not told her about the witness. 414 00:35:34,132 --> 00:35:36,046 I've not told her all this stuff about Andy. 415 00:35:36,177 --> 00:35:38,875 I don't even know if she knows about Andy's criminal history. 416 00:35:39,006 --> 00:35:41,922 -I want to tell her in person 417 00:35:42,052 --> 00:35:45,055 and give her a chance to either explain herself 418 00:35:45,186 --> 00:35:48,015 or maybe fill in something else that we're missing. 419 00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:52,106 Um, she knew Andy the best out of anyone, unfortunately. 420 00:35:52,237 --> 00:35:54,456 -So I'm gonna fly to Boston 421 00:35:54,587 --> 00:35:56,458 -and go back into the prison... 422 00:35:56,589 --> 00:35:59,461 ...and interview her on camera this time. 423 00:35:59,592 --> 00:36:01,159 You have one minute left. 424 00:36:01,289 --> 00:36:04,118 But either way, I mean, to me, I see all this 425 00:36:04,249 --> 00:36:07,948 as just more proof of your innocence. 426 00:36:08,078 --> 00:36:10,864 And so I think we need to get this to someone. 427 00:36:10,994 --> 00:36:14,607 -Okay. Good. 428 00:36:14,737 --> 00:36:17,175 -Thanks, man. Talk to you soon. 429 00:36:42,156 --> 00:36:43,723 There she is. 430 00:36:49,946 --> 00:36:51,905 -Am I turned on? You are. 431 00:36:52,035 --> 00:36:54,734 Okay. -So have you been here for a while? 432 00:36:54,864 --> 00:36:57,911 Well, we got here about noon, so about two hours. 433 00:36:58,041 --> 00:37:00,218 -Yeah. Ready? 434 00:37:02,350 --> 00:37:05,701 So how did you meet Andy in the first place? 435 00:37:05,832 --> 00:37:09,705 Um, Andy gave me a ride one day during a snowstorm. 436 00:37:09,836 --> 00:37:11,968 That's how I met him. 437 00:37:12,099 --> 00:37:14,841 What happened? -Um... 438 00:37:14,971 --> 00:37:18,366 If we could, um... 439 00:37:20,368 --> 00:37:22,805 just move from that, I would appreciate it. 440 00:37:24,024 --> 00:37:27,680 Yeah. 441 00:37:27,810 --> 00:37:31,597 Did you know that Andy had been to prison before he met you? 442 00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:34,077 What? Okay. 443 00:37:34,208 --> 00:37:39,126 I never heard that before until this very moment. 444 00:37:39,257 --> 00:37:42,042 Did you ever suspect that he was involved in the Doreen Levesque...? 445 00:37:42,172 --> 00:37:45,698 -No. -'Cause there are police reports where you 446 00:37:45,828 --> 00:37:49,223 talk about Andy being with Doreen Levesque 447 00:37:49,354 --> 00:37:53,271 and even, um, tell the police that you think Andy killed Doreen Levesque. 448 00:37:58,711 --> 00:38:01,801 -Do you remember that? -I may have felt that way. 449 00:38:01,931 --> 00:38:06,675 Um, I think that period of time involved a lot of, uh, 450 00:38:06,806 --> 00:38:08,938 odd things, a lot of strange things. 451 00:38:09,069 --> 00:38:13,421 Um... uh... 452 00:38:13,552 --> 00:38:18,861 I did my best to sort out what was real and what was scare tactics, I guess. 453 00:38:20,776 --> 00:38:22,735 The specifics and details 454 00:38:22,865 --> 00:38:25,825 about different conversations and things. 455 00:38:25,955 --> 00:38:29,219 Uh, sorry, it was 40 years ago. 456 00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:33,702 Um, kind of hard to keep track of. 457 00:38:33,833 --> 00:38:38,968 It looks to me like he probably killed Doreen Levesque. 458 00:38:39,099 --> 00:38:41,667 Possible. Yes. 459 00:38:41,797 --> 00:38:45,758 The case with Barbara 460 00:38:45,888 --> 00:38:48,978 and Doreen, they are both extremely similar. 461 00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:51,285 When Barbara was missing, 462 00:38:51,416 --> 00:38:54,897 um, he wanted to know if I had seen her 463 00:38:55,028 --> 00:38:58,597 and, uh, he insisted she was missing 464 00:38:58,727 --> 00:39:00,555 and something bad happened to her. 465 00:39:00,686 --> 00:39:02,992 Then he told me about the dream. 466 00:39:03,123 --> 00:39:06,126 He said she was dead, she was tied up, 467 00:39:06,256 --> 00:39:07,997 she was bludgeoned to death with a rock. 468 00:39:08,128 --> 00:39:10,652 He knew everything before they found her. 469 00:39:10,783 --> 00:39:12,001 Everything. 470 00:39:16,005 --> 00:39:18,181 One of the first times you had any contact with police 471 00:39:18,312 --> 00:39:21,750 was when Andy took you and Karen in together, right? 472 00:39:21,881 --> 00:39:26,189 Yes. I know that I thought we were going for one reason, 473 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,106 and it was really something else. It was very odd. 474 00:39:30,237 --> 00:39:33,371 It was very odd. And I do not remember the specifics. 475 00:39:33,501 --> 00:39:35,938 Andy said, "If I'm arrested, something's going to happen to Karen." 476 00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:40,247 Really? 477 00:39:40,378 --> 00:39:43,555 What was Andy's relationship to Karen? 478 00:39:43,685 --> 00:39:46,035 I don't know. 479 00:39:46,166 --> 00:39:48,168 I know that when I was in the hospital, 480 00:39:48,298 --> 00:39:51,432 um, one of the many times I was in the hospital, 481 00:39:51,563 --> 00:39:55,218 Andy came in with Karen, or Karen came in with Andy. 482 00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:59,832 And I was curious how they... what they were doing together. 483 00:39:59,962 --> 00:40:02,269 And she said, "Oh, he just gave me a ride." 484 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,361 Um, I don't know where they met. I don't know any of that. 485 00:40:07,492 --> 00:40:10,669 Did you ever confide in Karen about what had happened with Andy? 486 00:40:10,799 --> 00:40:13,193 -Yes. -What was her reaction? 487 00:40:13,323 --> 00:40:15,413 -Um, I really don't recall. -Yeah. 488 00:40:15,543 --> 00:40:17,937 I know that we, um, we had a few discussions. 489 00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:30,950 I remember seeing him in a one-piece pajama set. 490 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,691 He was knee high to a grasshopper. 491 00:40:32,821 --> 00:40:35,476 I talked to him and he said that 492 00:40:35,607 --> 00:40:40,394 he was on the roof of Harbor Terrace and saw you arguing. 493 00:40:40,525 --> 00:40:46,095 You, Karen, and Sonny, and Carl Davis. 494 00:40:46,226 --> 00:40:49,447 -I have a question, before you go any further. -Yeah, yeah. 495 00:40:49,577 --> 00:40:56,149 His age now versus his age in February of 1980, 496 00:40:56,279 --> 00:40:58,891 is he old enough to be up on a roof? 497 00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:00,066 He would have been extremely young. 498 00:41:00,196 --> 00:41:02,416 It didn't happen. 499 00:41:02,547 --> 00:41:04,897 Um, which is why I just asked you that. 500 00:41:05,027 --> 00:41:06,899 I remember him being really small. 501 00:41:07,029 --> 00:41:08,770 That's why I asked you how old he was. 502 00:41:08,901 --> 00:41:11,860 Um, I've never been on the roof of Harbor Terrace. 503 00:41:11,991 --> 00:41:14,341 So... 504 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:18,127 I've been to-- I was at Sonny's at 5 Harbor Terrace. 505 00:41:18,258 --> 00:41:22,349 Uh, across the next building down, Carol Fletcher lived there. 506 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,048 Somebody sold me weed once on the second floor of that building. 507 00:41:26,179 --> 00:41:29,312 And a woman by the name of Gail lived in the last building. 508 00:41:29,443 --> 00:41:31,489 That's what I know about Harbor Terrace. 509 00:41:31,619 --> 00:41:35,971 I'm not into closets and rooftops and basements. 510 00:41:36,102 --> 00:41:39,453 I don't know anything about that. I'm sorry. 511 00:41:39,584 --> 00:41:42,108 I told a lot of stories a long time ago. 512 00:41:42,238 --> 00:41:46,765 And I don't tell stories anymore. 513 00:41:46,895 --> 00:41:49,811 Some people continue to tell stories. 514 00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:52,031 I don't know why. I don't know what the cause is. 515 00:41:52,161 --> 00:41:54,512 I don't know if they believe their own lies. I don't know. 516 00:41:54,642 --> 00:41:58,994 Um, but I do know that I'm telling the truth. 517 00:41:59,125 --> 00:42:03,346 Um, and I'm sorry if anyone tries to taint that. 518 00:42:03,477 --> 00:42:06,828 Hm. Andy was actually arraigned on February 8th. 519 00:42:06,959 --> 00:42:10,266 And he was released hours before Karen's murder. 520 00:42:10,397 --> 00:42:12,965 I wasn't aware of that neither. 521 00:42:13,095 --> 00:42:15,141 He was arrested. 522 00:42:15,271 --> 00:42:16,446 I'm telling you all this 'cause I'm wondering 523 00:42:16,577 --> 00:42:18,448 if it triggers anything in your memory? 524 00:42:18,579 --> 00:42:20,538 Like, "Wait a sec. Now I do remember?" 525 00:42:20,668 --> 00:42:23,192 No, you're actually blowing my mind with all this information. 526 00:42:23,323 --> 00:42:26,935 Um, I did not... 527 00:42:27,066 --> 00:42:30,025 know any of it and, uh, wasn't aware of it, certainly. 528 00:42:30,156 --> 00:42:33,463 But I didn't... never even considered it. 529 00:42:33,594 --> 00:42:35,030 What do you think now? Do you think it's possible? 530 00:42:35,161 --> 00:42:38,207 I think that, um... 531 00:42:38,338 --> 00:42:41,036 Do I think it's possible? Anything's possible. 532 00:42:41,167 --> 00:42:42,560 Anything at all is possible. 533 00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:46,868 It seems like he had so little insight 534 00:42:46,999 --> 00:42:51,046 into what he was doing that he'd almost traumatized you 535 00:42:51,177 --> 00:42:54,659 to make you feel like you were complicit in what he was doing. 536 00:42:54,789 --> 00:42:57,052 -Right. -You know, is that... you think that's accurate? 537 00:42:57,183 --> 00:42:59,577 Um, I absolutely do. 538 00:42:59,707 --> 00:43:04,364 Before he passed, he sent me a letter from prison. 539 00:43:04,494 --> 00:43:08,716 And he said he only tried to make a woman out of me. 540 00:43:08,847 --> 00:43:12,590 I think that for someone to say that about an 11-year-old, 12-year-old... 541 00:43:15,157 --> 00:43:18,378 You know, he had a rifle in the trunk of the car. 542 00:43:18,508 --> 00:43:21,468 And he took it out one day and shot at my feet. 543 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:24,819 And initially I remember feeling like really afraid. 544 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:26,081 And he was like, "Ah, I was only kidding." 545 00:43:26,212 --> 00:43:27,953 I've never forgotten that. 546 00:43:28,083 --> 00:43:31,957 Uh, and I believe I told the police about that. 547 00:43:32,087 --> 00:43:35,264 Um, and it just didn't matter. 548 00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:38,703 None of that mattered. 549 00:43:38,833 --> 00:43:41,401 And now you're telling me, "Oh, yeah. No, he does that stuff." 550 00:43:41,531 --> 00:43:43,272 What? 551 00:43:43,403 --> 00:43:45,840 That's crazy. 552 00:43:45,971 --> 00:43:48,103 Why didn't he ever kill me? 553 00:43:48,234 --> 00:43:50,323 That is so weird. 554 00:43:50,453 --> 00:43:52,238 When was the last time you saw Karen? 555 00:43:52,368 --> 00:43:56,111 February 8th. 556 00:43:56,242 --> 00:44:01,900 Uh... we parted ways after leaving her son's 557 00:44:02,030 --> 00:44:04,424 foster parents' house. 558 00:44:04,554 --> 00:44:06,948 And that was it? -Never saw her again. 559 00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:10,038 Yeah. -Because I never saw her again... 560 00:44:10,169 --> 00:44:12,998 after going to Sonny's house, 561 00:44:13,128 --> 00:44:16,131 that still haunts me. 562 00:44:16,262 --> 00:44:18,046 A lot. 563 00:44:39,328 --> 00:44:42,505 That's what's so complicated about this entire, 564 00:44:42,636 --> 00:44:46,074 you know, history of the Fall River satanic cult murders. 565 00:44:46,205 --> 00:44:48,686 I mean, who are you gonna believe? 566 00:44:54,387 --> 00:44:58,130 There may be things that I don't wanna talk about, but that's for personal reasons. 567 00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:01,046 Not because I have anything really to hide. 568 00:45:01,176 --> 00:45:04,919 Um... but I... 569 00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:07,052 I've been telling the truth for a long time. 570 00:45:07,182 --> 00:45:08,836 It's not sensational. 571 00:45:14,189 --> 00:45:17,715 You know, they let this girl, Robin Murphy, 572 00:45:17,845 --> 00:45:21,501 manipulate them for her own gain. You know what I mean? 573 00:45:21,631 --> 00:45:25,244 Like I said, and I want that story out there that, you know what I mean? 574 00:45:25,374 --> 00:45:29,422 By her own volition, she admitted that she lied and she made this stuff all up. 575 00:45:36,385 --> 00:45:39,258 The DA acquiesced 576 00:45:39,388 --> 00:45:42,304 to the need for public closure 577 00:45:42,435 --> 00:45:45,307 and didn't necessarily have the interest of justice at heart. 578 00:45:49,703 --> 00:45:52,488 When we find that injustice has been done, 579 00:45:52,619 --> 00:45:55,361 somebody's been wrongly accused, I think we have to commit ourselves 580 00:45:55,491 --> 00:45:58,103 a thousand percent to trying to right that wrong, 581 00:45:58,233 --> 00:46:00,975 to undo the damage, to restore reputations, 582 00:46:01,106 --> 00:46:03,456 to make things whole again. 583 00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:06,867 At the present moment, uh, we have 43 domestic cases of the coronavirus. 584 00:47:06,998 --> 00:47:10,305 Six Americans have lost their life to the coronavirus. 585 00:47:10,436 --> 00:47:13,787 And on behalf of the president and all of the American people, 586 00:47:13,918 --> 00:47:15,615 we extend our deepest condolences. 587 00:47:15,745 --> 00:47:18,313 Because of the president's strong leadership 588 00:47:18,444 --> 00:47:20,838 and all of the hard work that our public health professionals have done 589 00:47:20,968 --> 00:47:24,015 at the local, the state, the federal level, 590 00:47:24,145 --> 00:47:28,846 the immediate risk to any individual American has been and does continue to be low. 591 00:47:40,466 --> 00:47:44,470 What's going on? Are you locked down or...? 592 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,342 Yeah, they only let us out for a half hour a day. 593 00:47:47,473 --> 00:47:49,475 You know, so... yeah. 594 00:48:23,161 --> 00:48:29,515 We've already seen 126,000 deaths with infection rates rising rapidly. 595 00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:48,055 It's going to disappear. One day, it's like a miracle. It will disappear. 596 00:49:45,025 --> 00:49:50,465 So did Carl Drew belong in prison for what he did as a pimp? Absolutely. 597 00:49:50,596 --> 00:49:54,600 Does he belong in prison on the word of a liar with no physical evidence? 598 00:49:54,730 --> 00:49:58,952 Maybe. But at the very least, we should be giving him an opportunity 599 00:49:59,083 --> 00:50:03,696 to be retried with a fair trial and an adequate counsel. 600 00:50:06,525 --> 00:50:08,962 No question in my mind that he is not innocent. 601 00:50:09,093 --> 00:50:11,356 He committed the crimes. He was present. 602 00:50:11,486 --> 00:50:12,705 He committed the crimes. 603 00:50:12,835 --> 00:50:14,576 I believe justice was served. 604 00:50:45,868 --> 00:50:49,568 My first impression was that the case, um, 605 00:50:49,698 --> 00:50:51,613 at trial appeared to be a mess. 606 00:50:53,746 --> 00:50:55,922 And then as we looked into more evidence, 607 00:50:56,053 --> 00:50:59,665 it seemed to raise a lot of red flags and a lot of questions. 608 00:50:59,795 --> 00:51:03,930 I think that the evidence that Carl has uncovered 609 00:51:04,061 --> 00:51:07,325 over the past 30-plus years 610 00:51:07,455 --> 00:51:11,503 and that this documentary has uncovered, 611 00:51:11,633 --> 00:51:14,897 uh, is compelling and significant evidence 612 00:51:15,028 --> 00:51:17,465 that, um, Carl did not commit this crime. 613 00:51:20,816 --> 00:51:23,515 I think that it's worthy to take a look at this case 614 00:51:23,645 --> 00:51:27,736 and to raise some real questions about how something like this 615 00:51:27,867 --> 00:51:29,782 could be prosecuted in the manner that it was. 616 00:51:29,912 --> 00:51:33,438 Legally, Carl is in a tricky situation 617 00:51:33,568 --> 00:51:37,790 because he has to find more evidence and new evidence 618 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,359 and evidence that's different than what was presented in the motion in 2004. 619 00:51:44,362 --> 00:51:47,669 But I think that there is evidence that has been uncovered that is different. 620 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,545 Robin Murphy's statement that she also, uh, 621 00:51:53,675 --> 00:51:55,895 was told on the day of trial by the prosecutor 622 00:51:56,025 --> 00:51:58,637 that she needed to testify to what they agreed to, 623 00:51:58,767 --> 00:52:00,726 even after she was trying to tell them that she lied, 624 00:52:00,856 --> 00:52:03,424 I think is very compelling. 625 00:52:32,801 --> 00:52:36,196 I'm concerned about getting a judge to take it seriously. 626 00:52:36,327 --> 00:52:40,157 Um, being that judge had already discredited Robin Murphy. 627 00:52:40,287 --> 00:52:44,291 But on top of that, from the... what this documentary has uncovered, 628 00:52:44,422 --> 00:52:50,515 um, is that in the police's investigation into the Barbara Raposa murder, 629 00:52:50,645 --> 00:52:54,649 against Andre Maltais, 630 00:52:54,780 --> 00:52:57,957 the police had arrested Andre Maltais in the past, 631 00:52:58,087 --> 00:53:03,919 um, for committing crimes with very similar MO, 632 00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:08,576 very similar method to the way that Doreen Levesque was killed. 633 00:53:12,885 --> 00:53:17,063 This information about Andre Maltais was never turned over to Carl or his defense team. 634 00:53:17,194 --> 00:53:21,763 Before a person is convicted, the defense is supposed to receive all evidence 635 00:53:21,894 --> 00:53:24,853 that is both against them and evidence that may show that they didn't commit the crime. 636 00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:27,900 And when evidence isn't turned over, 637 00:53:28,030 --> 00:53:33,558 the law, uh, essentially supports Carl saying, 638 00:53:33,688 --> 00:53:35,516 "How was I supposed to know that it existed?" 639 00:53:38,693 --> 00:53:41,043 Carl Drew, I think it's hard for him to dispute 640 00:53:41,174 --> 00:53:44,917 that he was a pimp who prostituted little girls. 641 00:53:45,047 --> 00:53:48,747 However, the people who belong in prison have to be put there in the correct way 642 00:53:48,877 --> 00:53:49,878 according to the rule of law. 643 00:53:52,316 --> 00:53:54,013 To overturn his conviction, 644 00:53:54,143 --> 00:53:56,537 I have to show that all of this information 645 00:53:56,668 --> 00:53:59,366 might have made a difference to the jury. 646 00:53:59,497 --> 00:54:02,282 That it would have been a significant factor as they tried to determine, 647 00:54:02,413 --> 00:54:05,111 "Did Carl commit this crime or did someone else?" 648 00:54:05,242 --> 00:54:11,770 One big thing that Carl was lacking was significant evidence of a third-party culprit, 649 00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:14,294 of the other person who may have actually killed her. 650 00:54:14,425 --> 00:54:17,993 And it seems clear from what the documentary has uncovered 651 00:54:18,124 --> 00:54:20,082 that this information about Andre Maltais, 652 00:54:20,213 --> 00:54:23,782 that might be a basis to get Carl back into court 653 00:54:23,912 --> 00:54:25,523 and to overturn his convictions. 654 00:54:31,659 --> 00:54:34,836 We need to file a motion for a new trial. 655 00:55:27,498 --> 00:55:30,936 Robin's history of trauma and also going to prison 656 00:55:31,066 --> 00:55:36,768 at 17, 18 years old and serving most of her life in confinement, 657 00:55:36,898 --> 00:55:39,771 you know, is traumatic in and of itself. 658 00:55:39,901 --> 00:55:43,818 So it's trauma after trauma after trauma and a coping mechanism, 659 00:55:43,949 --> 00:55:48,475 you know, to deal with all of that, you know, 660 00:55:48,606 --> 00:55:52,523 I think she doesn't trust people so therefore she comes off as untrustworthy, 661 00:55:52,653 --> 00:55:54,307 um, to the parole board. 662 00:55:54,438 --> 00:55:58,529 You've woven this web of deceit 663 00:55:58,659 --> 00:56:02,620 and storytelling that... 664 00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:08,147 I can't make heads or tails of what... 665 00:56:08,277 --> 00:56:13,021 even the surface of the truth is in this case. 666 00:56:31,257 --> 00:56:33,781 I think it's evident that she was an abuse victim, 667 00:56:33,912 --> 00:56:36,044 um, by multiple people. 668 00:56:36,175 --> 00:56:38,177 You know, she may have had street smarts, 669 00:56:38,307 --> 00:56:41,136 but that doesn't mean that she had common sense 670 00:56:41,267 --> 00:56:44,270 or that she had the emotional maturity to deal with, you know, 671 00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:46,403 what was going on around her. 672 00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:51,712 I think she deserves re-parole. 673 00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:06,988 Here's what's so sad about this case. 674 00:57:07,119 --> 00:57:09,904 What you absolutely know for a fact 675 00:57:10,035 --> 00:57:13,691 is that you had these men who were victimizing teenage girls. 676 00:57:15,388 --> 00:57:17,999 I mean, that alone should have 677 00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:22,395 provoked some sort of investigation. 678 00:57:22,526 --> 00:57:25,746 These were all girls that should have been offered some sort of protection. 679 00:57:44,025 --> 00:57:47,289 I think what you're doing and what your team's doing here 680 00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:51,424 is the only way, is to shed some light onto it. 681 00:57:51,555 --> 00:57:54,427 Maybe, you know, there's some people 682 00:57:54,558 --> 00:57:57,169 who were former district attorneys 683 00:57:57,299 --> 00:58:01,260 who, you know, feel bad about it. 684 00:58:01,390 --> 00:58:04,219 Maybe there are some people who worked on the case 685 00:58:04,350 --> 00:58:06,439 who would like to make things right. 686 00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:10,138 And if 100,000 people or so see this, 687 00:58:10,269 --> 00:58:13,272 or people in Fall River realize that, hey, 688 00:58:13,402 --> 00:58:16,144 "I think it warrants an investigation into it. 689 00:58:16,275 --> 00:58:18,407 Go ahead, let's test the shit. Why not?" 690 00:58:18,538 --> 00:58:22,107 Why not look up the cases, do due diligence? 691 00:58:22,237 --> 00:58:26,633 And, uh, just get to the truth of the situation. 56073

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