All language subtitles for Fall.River.S01E03

They had
a series of murders

during a satanic ritual
in the woods.

Carl Drew was initially charged
with two murders.

That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.

There's no physical evidence
at all tying Carl Drew
to these crimes.

That night that she was supposed
to have been killed,

I was
at my stepmother's wedding.

I had photos of me there.

Robin was also indicted
for murder.

She turned state's evidence.

Robin was only 17 years old
at the time.

Robin was caught in the middle
of all of this.

The bottom line
is that Carl was a pimp,

and Robin Murphy,
she was trying to be a pimp,

at this time,
in the same area as Carl.

Robin wanted control. She didn't
want to be a prostitute.

Robin could eat pizza
and kill you right after that.

You know, Robin is the one
who was the main character
in putting him away.

Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board

and admitted to them
that she had lied.

Robin masterminded all of this.

You know, you have
to give credit to Robin Murphy.

The only thing you can say
is that she's a lot smarter

than all the fucking people
involved in the case.

And now I'm just not
gonna lie anymore.

The stories I told,
I wanna take personal
responsibility for.

I'm not looking to say,
"Oh, well, the DA did this

and the police officers
did that." I'm not doing that.

I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.

No one cares.

I wish that people really knew
what really happened.

I thought I was all grown up
at a very young age.

Probably because of the things
that happened didn't allow me
to be a kid.

Robin had
a very traumatic childhood.

Um, from, I would say,
pre-teen years on.

I think she kind of
fell through the cracks.

Nowadays, I think Department
of Children and Families

would be involved.

And unfortunately,
that wasn't the case

back in, you know, the '70s.

I met Robin Murphy.

She was 12 and I was 12.

My family pretty much
fell apart when I was ten.

My father became
a very abusive alcoholic.

I ran away.

She gave her mom a phone call.
Her mother didn't even know me.

And she let me stay
at that house.

I met her when I was,
yeah, when I was about 12.

I felt bad for her.

Wanted my mother to take her in.

I think her mother
was working at a bar.

There was no, uh, no parent
in that house at all.
There was no parent.

Like, altogether,
I probably saw her mother
when I was living there

like five times.

With pretty much
having an absent parent,

yeah, I kinda had
to make my own decisions.

And I realized there
was nobody there.

So... there was that clingy
thing to whoever was there.

Her father was living
on County Street in Fall River.

And twice I walked
from one side of the city

with Robin 'cause she wanted
to see her dad.

I told my mother
I wanted to go live
with my father at one point.

Her dad wouldn't
even open the door, said,
"Go away, I'm married."

She wanted to be accepted
by her dad.

And her dad certainly
didn't accept her.

I was like, yeah,
no, I don't do this anymore.

Robin was like the head
of the household at 12.

She was-- she'd be the one
cooking that terrible chicken
with those russet potatoes

and a can of corn
every damn night.

Robin had three brothers.

Bobby, the oldest brother, um,

Mark,

and Kelly.

She was just totally on her own.

12 years old, you know,
Bobby, her brother Bobby,

used to rape her, and nothing...

Yeah, everything was always
hush-hush. Everything
was hush-hush back then.

She said, "I don't wanna get
pregnant from my brother.

My mom... my mom won't
love me anymore."

I think, with Robin,

I think there's a denial factor.

And maybe at that age,
not even knowing it's...
it's wrong.

You know, maybe having
an inkling that this
is inappropriate.

But not really understanding
the gravity of what
was happening.

Did you, uh, try and talk
to people about it?

-I did. Deaf ears.
-Yeah.

Um, my oldest brother
acted like things
never happened.

Bobby was older than Robin.
His birthday was in November.

That's all I remember.
But he was 16. Yeah.

Four years older than Robin.

I think,
as far as parenting goes,
on my mother's side,

she did her best
with what she had.

That's it. How do you deal
with things? I think
in her generation,

you dealt with things by
sweeping them under the carpet.

You don't take them out
into, you know, to other people.

I met Robin, I wanna say
I was 16 or 17 years old.

Which makes this young lady
11 or 12.

Very young.

I had seen her around town
in Fall River.

Because I wasn't too far away
from Fall River,

and I had some friends
in Fall River, you know.

And I had family members
that were in Fall River.

So I would see her
here and there.

And I had heard conversations
about her being around
in my father's life.

Andy Maltais, he was very active
on the street.

I was in front
of the Superior Court House.

Um, lived near there,
about half a block.

And he gave me a ride
down the street.

Um... 11?

Andy was
the strangest character
probably of all.

Uh, you could
walk the streets

of Fall River
for a month,

and you will not see anyone
with cowboy boots

and a buckle that says "Texas"
on it and pill buttons.

Andy Maltais
was dressed that way.

He did wear boots
and he did have a big,
I guess, western belt buckle.

I don't know exactly how
to describe him. We didn't...
we didn't go out to dinner.

He was a character.
He was a character.

He was an older guy.

He lived with his mother,
first of all.

And he was like, uh,
a wimpy guy.

I don't think anyone
thought much of Andy.

I was molested and raped
by Andy Maltais,

starting at age 11.

I wasn't performing
cult meetings
in the Freetown State Forest.

Andy was molesting me
in the Freetown State Forest.

She just ended up, I think,
being revictimized over
and over and over.

Starting at 11.

Andy was
a pedophile, basically.

He liked young girls.

He would drive around
and find these young girls.

And people like that,
they're predators.

He had a pattern of what we
would now say is grooming.

You know, get in her good graces
and get her things
and take her around and,

you know, eventually
sexually abuse her.

He actually took me
to meet his mother at one point.

Which I found very weird.

My dad was always a part
of my life,

whether he was home
or not home.

My mom and him separated

because my dad
would like to go out at night.

He liked younger women.
I mean, I don't know
what to tell you.

But that was just his thing.

I know that
at one point,

the school that
I was going to...

Maybe I was in... jeez.

Seventh grade?

The school called my mother
and wanted to know

who the man was in the red car

that was waiting
for me every day.

And that was Andy Maltais.

My mother asked me
and I told her it
was none of her business.

And that was good enough.

I don't know
if it's she didn't care

or she just didn't know
what to do about it.

No one stood up for her. You
know, she kind of had to learn
to handle things by herself.

Um, and had a very skewed
view of what's appropriate
and what's not appropriate

and very limited trust
in people.

Robin Murphy tried
to find other victims.

So she... would not have
to have any kind of sexual
relationship with Andy Maltais.

Andy Maltais, he was gonna
give me a ride home.

And she told me he'd be safe
and he wasn't.

He raped me.

Repeatedly.

Nobody knows. I guess everybody
who's watching it is gonna know
about me now.

But it's okay.

He tied my hands behind a...

pine tree.

And he was masturbating.

And then broke my virginity.

And then he put a stick
in my vagina...

and told me if I said anything,

my parents and my sister
were gonna be dead.

And I didn't want him
to kill my... kill my parents.

Or kill my sister.

I went to the police station
and told them about Andy.

They wouldn't even take my
statement 'cause I was only 12.

They didn't care.
They didn't care.

I guess it was
something that was overlooked.

And I don't mean
to put men down,

but it seems like men
were always privileged
and women were not.

Nowadays, the lens on that
is much different.

But even through the police
reports and looking at stuff,

it does appear that they really
just were, "No big deal."

No.

No, uh...

Because we were, at that time,

we were just interested in...
in homicides.

Uh...

They didn't care.

They still don't.
They still don't.

The only defense
Robin has

is she was sexually abused
and brutalized as a child.

Uh, and psychologically
that damaged her.

But she isn't fit
to be among society.

I consider her
a dangerous person.

They didn't give a flying fuck.
There you go, I'm sorry.

For God's sakes... oh.

Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.

I don't know, I think
it may have been the time.

People in the '70s
and even the early '80s.

Uh, child rape cases
were not pursued

the way they are today.

They may have thought
that it was consensual.

So it's all okay.

Uh, it's not.

Okay, there was a long
relationship with Andy Maltais.

-Yes, sir.
-About roughly six years?

-Since you were
11 or 12 years old?
-Correct.

-He was 44 at the time, right?
-Okay. I'm really not sure.

Okay. Something regarding
your childhood,

um, and, you know,
uncontroverted trauma

that you experienced
when you were very young.

Um, it accounts for a lot
of your actions.

But there's a...
there are a lot of things

that... that does
not account for.

And, you know, when... when...

A lot of things,
you took it upon yourself

to make this so much
more complicated.

Andy bought me two
puppies after he molested me.

And he did call my
parents' house one time.

And my father
picked up the phone.

My dad knew something was up,
but he didn't say anything.

That made it worse for me.
That made it worse for me.

Andy killed my other puppy
in front of me.

He says, "Now this
is gonna be your father."

That experience has traumatized
my life for the rest of my life.

The nightmares don't go away.

A lot of times kids
who are victimized and abused

continue to be victimized
and abused by other people.

Um, you know, almost like
they have a target on them.

Um, I think with Robin,
it definitely impacted

any form of any close
relationship she had
with anyone.

What did you perceive
as behaviors or character traits

that you needed to address
during your incarceration?

-Um...
-To be rehabilitated.

I would say, um, anger.

But the anger came from hurt.

And that came as a result
of, uh, abuse.

And neglect.

Abuse from male figures.

Um, and neglect
from a mother figure
who was kind of not there.

She was busy trying
to make ends meet
to bring up four kids.

If you don't walk through that
and you don't forgive the past,

then you don't get to grow up.

And you stay angry.

Robin, she got pregnant.

Had a son.

I believe she was barely 16.

I had a gay brother.
He was two years older than me.

When Robin told me
she was pregnant,

I went to the house
and we talked.

She said, "I was raped
and I'm effing pregnant."

And her mom took the child.

I think having a baby
and being gay...

At that point she was gay.

That really messed her head up.

I know she doesn't want
to talk about it.

I think, in a broad term
of, you know, getting pregnant,

I think it kind of forced her
to grow up quicker

than I think any teenage parent
ends up having to do.

Everything spiraled
with Robin.

The older she got,
having a child,

hormones after having a child
at a young age,

depressed all the time.

Sonny Sparda,
she was a friend of Robin's.

And they were allegedly,

they were having
a lesbian relationship.

Sonny Sparda
had a history of prostitution.

And, um, she lived
at Harbor Terrace

which was a housing development
no longer in existence.

Robin was over there
constantly. And Sonny was
friendly with Carl Drew.

She was friendly
with the whole group.

I know that I never
enjoyed the company of men...

sexually.

So we kind of hung
to the gay bars.

I met Sonny there.

Um, she seemed nice.

That got different
really quick, but...

at the time she seemed nice.

We spent a lot of time
in Sonny's apartment.

It was a place for us to meet.

It's hard to understand it.
Why would they wanna... want

the police detectives around
in Sonny Sparda's apartment?

But they thought they could
gather the information from us.

Um, we knew we could get
information from them.

And they were too afraid
to keep us away.

The amount of time we spent
with these girls is incredible.

To me,
they were never cops.

They had badges.

They just didn't operate
like police officers.

There was some concerns
about how Fall River

was getting information
from informants.

They were perceived as hanging
out with them too much.

Um, drinking with them.

Uh, getting too...
the perception was that they
were getting too friendly.

We were given the green light
by our commander at the time.

So anything that we had to do
to do that,

including us bringing alcohol,
marijuana into the apartment,
we did it.

You had girls
being exploited,

and they just weren't
particularly concerned

about the exploitation factor
of those girls.

I was with a friend.

We went to buy marijuana
from someone.

And Carl Drew was seated
on a couch.

'Cause I remember backing up
and saying, "Come on,
I wanna get out of here."

He just had an icy stare.
I didn't like the look of him.

So I end up meeting Robin
at Sonny's.

We didn't get along. She had
an attitude when she talked.

You know, you're supposed
to pay attention to her
or listen to her.

And I was above
and beyond all that stuff.

He was just
a really intimidating guy.

Hearing stories about him...

I didn't believe them.

They just seemed too out there
to be true.

Robin had this disposition
that she tried to act like a man

and we're having
a heated argument.

And I got to a point
where I wanted to punch her.

But I didn't. I end up
open slapping her
and knocking her on her ass.

Carl had come
to Sonny's house.

And Karen Marsden was with him.

And he was upset with her
for some reason.

Karen was seated in a chair
where I couldn't see her.

Carl kept pacing back and forth.
So I got up.

Pissed off,
went in the bathroom.

And she said,
"What's the matter with you?"

I said, "He's a jerk."

Karen Marsden,
she was a sweet person.

She was concerned about her son.

For a 17-year-old, yes,
I loved her. Yes.

It was somebody that was there.

She told me her introduction
to being a prostitute for Carl

was she told me
a story about him

choking her one night
at the Holiday Inn.

She passed out.
And when she woke up,

she was laying on the bed

and he was dripping blood
down on her forehead.

Carl decided he should
take her car

and basically, um,
had her doing drugs.

Very unfortunate.

I took her to
the Corrigan Mental Health Unit.

I needed somebody to look at her
and try to help her.

Um, they gave her Haldol,
Haldol, whatever
the heck that is

and sent her on her way.

Um, that was
how they treated that.

Drugs with more drugs
and more drugs.

I noticed recently that

my involvements with people
have always been
with broken people.

Robin's father
let her down,

for not caring.

Or having the time for her.

Then you got Andy.

And then you got Carl Drew.

They have, you know,
made their case

on Robin being a central figure
in this

and her being
a main perpetrator,

um, instead of a victim.

She fell in with this crowd
of people, Carl Drew included,

who was a known pimp
in Fall River and in his
20s at the time.

So to put it on her,
that she, at 17,

you know, was pimping out
other girls who
were older than her,

I think was very short-sighted.

Robin did a lot of intimidation,
not only with Karen,

who she totally controlled,

but she did a lot of
intimidation with everyone else
who worked the street.

Keep in mind, Robin was only
17 years old at the time.

But, um, a very violent person.

They weren't fully
grasping, you know, that she
was an exploited victim.

She may have been
a child at 17 years old,

or considered a child.

Robin didn't need
any protection.

So there's this group
of prostitutes

and they're being controlled
by Carl Drew,

who's a motorcycle
and tough guy.

-A 16-year-old girl.
-Mm-hm.

-Doesn't seem to fit...
-Just as violent, if not more.

You look at her, you say, "Ooh.

She's sweet and innocent."

That was not the case.

It's very frustrating
to have people

even now refer to her
as a prostitute or as a pimp,

um, when she was clearly
victimized and was
trafficked herself

in with this group of adults.

I was on call
that weekend. Doreen Levesque.

We found her under the bleachers
at Diamond Vocational
High School in Fall River.

She had been severely beaten
and was, you know, killed.

Karen said
that Carl killed a girl
under the bleachers.

I insisted, "Nah. He's just
told you that to, you know,
get you to walk right."

That's Karen
telling you this?
-Karen was telling me that. Yes.

Were you present when,
we're talking about,

do you know the girl that was
found behind the bleachers?

-Yes, that was Doreen Levesque.
-Doreen Levesque. Right.

Karen used to call me on the
phone all the time, you know,

Drew's gonna threaten her.
I said, "Karen,
we'll take care of you.

We'll move you somewhere.
We'll do something for you."

"No, I don't want to go.
I don't want to leave."

So Carl smashed her head in
with rocks.

And she was crying and she
had holy water in her pocket.

Doreen was the first victim.

But the most astonishing thing
is that before
the Karen Marsden murder,

Robin Murphy had been a witness
to the murder
of another young prostitute,

Barbara Raposa.

That homicide
involved Andy Maltais and Robin.

Carl wasn't present.

Uh, none of the other actors
were present.

I don't like
to bring that up, I have to say.

Um, because Andy died.

It was a wooded area
but clearly seen from the road.

You could drive in there.

It was a sort
of a lover's lane.

There was a gentleman
who was walking his beagle dog.

The ground was frozen.

And the dog went over,
was licking the dead body.

That was a Saturday in January.

And it was cold.

And she was frozen solid.

Her face was smashed in.

In the area where we found her,
there were some cement blocks.

A cement block did
serious damage to her face.

She was... severely beaten.

The body was
completely frozen, rock solid,

when we removed it
from that location.

What we did was interviewed
everyone we could think of

that was directly or indirectly
involved with her.

We tied
the connection together
that she was Andy's girlfriend

and it developed from there.

The only time I knew of Barbara
was he spoke with me

about having a female
in his life

and that he had a new woman
in his life

and that he really cared for her
and that she really
needed his help.

She was 17 and he was 40.

And she started dating him.
I tried to...

get her away from him.

But she thought he was great.

'Cause, at first, he was nice.

But then he started, you know,
giving her more and more drugs.

I was best friends with her
sister since second grade.

She told me when Barbara
was five months' pregnant,

that it might be Andy's.

She had a son.

She was younger, so, you know,

a lot of people take that
like that's a bad thing

because it was like probably
a 20 years age difference.

But I have aunts and uncles
today that are that far apart
and they're still married.

Barbara was... I'm gonna cry.

Was a good girl.

She was, um...

In grammar school,
she did all the right things.

That's why I'm here.

I don't remember...

them talking about her
at length ever.

Um...

I don't remember
any pictures of her.

She was a beautiful girl.

And, um,
justice wasn't done for her.

I really didn't know
much about Barbara

until we found her body.

The night
that she disappeared,

she was thinking of leaving,

and she was getting
a clearer head.

And she was finally thinking,
"I have a life to live,

I have a son,
I'm gonna fix this and get out."

And she disappeared.
And she was killed.

Barbara was,
affiliating is probably
the correct word,

with this other guy.

But Andy was jealous
of their relationship.

That's really part
of an abusive relationship.

She wants to leave Fall River.

She wants to move on
with her life,

'cause she is really only a kid.

He doesn't want her to leave.

Andy wasn't the main suspect
in the case.

I was 100 percent convinced

that he didn't murder
Barbara Raposa.

The medical examiner testified

that from the wounds he saw
on Barbara Raposa,

whoever did that would have
been covered with blood.

Andy lived with his mother.

It was a very small apartment.

Andy's mother said she
didn't hear him come in late.

When he came in, she didn't
hear him take a shower.

She didn't find
any bloody clothes.

My father was not there.

He was home in bed.

Just like my mammy said,
she's not gonna lie.

She's a French woman
from Canada.

Andy... really wouldn't...
wouldn't stay away
from the police.

I mean, he was at the police
station all the time saying,

"You know,
I just thought of something,

maybe I can help you out
on this."

And they strung him along.

I think he thought he was some
kind of a junior G-man.
I don't really know.

I found that people
who commit homicide

want to tell someone.

Sounds strange, but they want
to tell you what they did.

Midnight, I think on a Friday
or Saturday evening,

Andy Maltais came
into our office.

Came in with his cowboy boots

and his cowboy buckle
and his shirt.

And he came in holding
a Bible.

I said, "Andy, why the Bible?"

And he said he was with God now.

But prior to that,
he'd been with the devil.

It was crazy. First of
all, he didn't have a lawyer.

And I'm not sure he would
have listened to a lawyer
at that point if he had one.

We gave him
his Miranda warnings.

His rights.

Andy just kept telling
the police, as far as I recall,

"Look, I know what I'm doing."

There was
quite a bit of...

conversation about God
and about Satan,

and I really worked him over
with that.

But that went on
for about, uh, 48 hours.

We had no sleep.
We just kept working
and working that issue.

For whatever reason,

he wanted to...
call it whatever you want,

cooperate, participate.

You know, he wanted to be
involved with the police.

He probably would have stayed
there for 84 hours
if they wanted him to.

Andy, he wasn't too bright.
You know?

But you could talk him into
saying he raped his own mother.

I wanna be careful with my
words, 'cause the police
were just doing their job.

But basically, they played him.

I asked him
to close his eyes,

and I said,
"You know what I see, Andy?

I see you killing Barbara."

And that's when he said,
you know,

"I can see it too.

I can see in my mind
where this body is."

He wanted to take us there.

Obviously, we did that.

When Andy wanted
to go to the scene

of where Barbara Raposa
had been killed,

we took him to the scene
down there. It was a very,
very cold day.

And that's when he said, uh,

talking about
having had his dream

and seeing her smashed
in the face and killed.

He claimed that he saw
her murder in a vision.

He's in a tree or he's hovering
above the murder scene.

And he is witnessing that,
as if he is clairvoyant.

They turn it around against him.

And also because he had a dream.

What, you mean to tell me
if I had a dream last night

that God showed me something
in a dream, which He does speak
to people through dreams...

Don't happen often,
but it does happen.

That's in His word. I'm not God,
but that's His word.

I never
considered it a confession.

I don't consider it
a confession now.

We finally
arrested Andy Maltais.

My dad was my best
friend. I was looking for him.

We had stayed
in constant contact.

You know, I was 19 years old.

And we had plans to hook up

and meet each other
in Fall River.

Well, I went to go meet him,
and he was nowhere to be found.

That's when I found out
that they arrested him.

They arrested him.
I said, "What do you mean
they arrested him?"

"They arrested him for murder."

I said, "You people
are out of your mind!

He didn't kill anybody."

And after Andy admitted to it,
Robin came through
with the full story.

Andy told me that
Barbara was laying dead
somewhere in the woods.

And of course, I told him no,
she's probably just running away
from you.

He said, "No.

She is laying in the woods."

Andy Maltais
told me a story

that angels carried him
over Barbara

while she was being murdered.

He said that Barbara
was bludgeoned to death

before she was found.

That angels carried him over,
she was in a wooded area,

that she was tied up
and beaten to death with a rock.

When I told the police that,

they said he had told them
the same story.

I said, "Well, if I was there,
if I was in the car with him,
is that good?

Does that pick him up?"

And it did.

She turned around and said that
she was in the car with Barbara
and Andy.

Andy's statements
didn't help him.

Without Robin Murphy, they
wouldn't have had a case at all.

I thought she was lying
from the first day I met her.

But I could never get her
into a position

where she was so contradictory

that it was obvious
she was lying.

Andy Maltais' lawyer asked me
if I lied about Andy

because of what he did to me
when I was a kid.

I didn't say he
murdered Barbara

because of what he did to me.

But so that he couldn't
do it to anyone else.

And it worked.

Her coming forward
was definitely

a way of... of fighting back

and regaining some power
in her life.

Andy Maltais abused her,

ruined her life, hurt her,

physically, emotionally,
mentally.

Andy Maltais, he should
have been castrated.

He should have been castrated.

This is the site where the state
says Andre Maltais

beat Barbara Raposa to death
with a rock

back in November of 1979.

The police took me
to where she was found

and basically said,
"So, the car came in this way.

You remember
this bump over here?"

And I just, you know,
"Yep, yep."

Robin,
she was very smart.

The best witness I ever saw.

I used to be
a very good storyteller.

And it got my needs met.

She had gone over
the transcript.

She had figured out
what I was doing.

She was a very,
very smart witness.

We watched him
go in and out of the courthouse
in a wheelchair.

Because through all of this,
he had a stroke.

He had three strokes.

The third one caused his whole
left side to shut down,

so he barely could walk.

He had strange sexual
proclivities, shall we say.

And the prosecution
felt that they really needed

to introduce some of this
equipment in the trial.

Andy Maltais talked
about a bag of tricks
that he had.

A bag of tricks,
all sexual items that he used,

vibrators and rope
and handcuffs.

Gags.

We had court stenographers.
We had little old ladies
in the back row.

And they were shocked.

I know at the trial,
Robin claimed

Maltais had molested her
when she was a child.

Andy Maltais,
I don't know whether
he saw it as wrong.

I think he knew it was wrong,
but it was a wrong
that he could accept.

It's not a wrong that you
or I would accept or most
normal people would accept.

But he was like, "Oh, yeah.
I did that."

And he seemed detached.

His general demeanor

was just almost accepting
of his own behavior.

You know, he didn't see
the world the way you and I do.

It was disturbing to me
to watch a man...

try and make sense of his life.

And he couldn't.

He just couldn't.

It's kind of pathetic.

Andy ended up
in state prison
for the mentally impaired

and died later of a stroke.

He always tried
to be strong for us kids.

But you could
see the brokenness.

You could see the suffering
in him.

Did you ever meet Andy Maltais
before all this happened?

Yeah.

Robin Murphy, you
have her as the key witness

in a homicide case.

And now you have, you know,
the Karen Marsden murder.

Uh...

On February 8th,

uh, Karen and I
were out together.

We parted ways.

Um...

I went to Maureen
Sparda's house, aka Sonny.

Uh-huh.
-Um...

My intent that night
was to cheat on Karen,

uh, with Maureen Sparda.

The next day, Karen...

didn't go back
to her grandmother's.

Um, and I couldn't
find her anywhere.

I had talked
to the state police.

Um, they couldn't
do anything about it.

Carl Drew wasn't
getting arrested

for murdering the woman
who said he was gonna do it.

I really wanted him
to not hurt anybody else.

That's all.

Grand jury
murder indictments
were handed down today

for the death of 20-year-old
Karen Marsden.

Ron Pina was the
district attorney at the time.

I'm sure he was under
a lot of pressure

to get this straightened out.

So he corralled Robin.

We have an individual
who has come forward
and talked to us

and has testified
or spoken to us

and identified exactly what
we feel happened that night.

The night when, uh,
Karen Marsden disappeared.

We finally concocted
a story of how she was killed.

I mean, here...
here they've got one witness

that they can
make one deal with,

that serves up on
a silver platter two murders.

You know, it solves everything.

When they
found the skull,

I went there.

I drove to the scene
with the state trooper.

So I did know the layout.

But not because I had
ever been there before.

Prosecutors have an obligation
to do justice,

not just get convictions.

But this was a DA who had

a bunch of unsolved murders
on his hands

and who was approaching
an election campaign.

And he was far more interested

in answering public outcry

than he was in doing justice.

We were able to determine
that, uh,

there may have been
more than one individual
involved in the crime.

Prosecutors in the mid-1980s

who have been exposed
to this satanic ritual narrative

might be a lot more likely

to assume that there's something
devil-y going on there.

The willingness by police
officers and attorneys

to embrace these stories

is rooted in the fact
that many of them

were already primed
by a literal Bible belief.

The city of Fall River,
we have like nine Catholic
consecrated churches

in the city, which was
one of the largest anywhere
in the United States.

They had been primed
to believe in a God and a devil.

They would naturally drift
into the narrative that, well,
Satan was behind this.

I plead guilty
to murder in the second degree.

Kenny Sullivan.

He told me I'll get out
in 12 years.

And I would like it at first
because I'm gay.

But did I think women would
still want me at the age of 50?

So I pled guilty that day.

You have
a 16, 17-year-old girl

who is very articulate

and who can be prompted
to say pretty much anything
that people wanted her to say

in order to have the headlines
that these Fall River satanic
cult murders were solved.

"Nothing to worry about, folks,
we put the people away."

Without Robin,
the district attorney
didn't have Carl.

It was almost like
she was the prize

to solve this serious crime

and to put Carl away
at whatever cost.

Robin Murphy looked
a lot different in 1980
than she does today.

In 1980, she looked like
an innocent girl next door.

They intentionally dressed
her up to look that part.

You know, she's wearing little
pleated skirts and, you know,

uh, button-up blouses
and her long hair is cascading
over her shoulders

and she's talking about the
horrific abuse she suffered
at the hands of Carl Drew.

I mean, who are you
gonna believe?

Just as we have a God, I do
believe that we have a Satan.

And I also believe that good
always overcomes evil.

It's just how I was raised.

You know,
there's a lot of questions,

and they're probably all going
to remain unanswered.

All right. A little nervous.

I've never
been on camera before, so...

Um...

once.

I was probably about
maybe ten or 11.

My mother's house got raided.

And, um, they had arrested her.

I don't remember
who the cop was,

but I talked to a cop

and I told him about what I saw
and, uh,

I thought it'd get my mother
out of jail.

I don't think
he took me serious.

So when I was probably about,
I don't know, five or six,

I had told my mother that, um...

I had saw these people...

killing... killing a girl.