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What happens when we die?
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Do we simply cease to be?
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Or do we survive
in some form?
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What is it that makes us
unique, conscious beings?
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It's the greatest mystery
of existence,
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a problem seemingly too big
for science to solve.
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But today,
a cluster of biologists,
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physicists, and philosophers
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are closing in on the answer
to the ultimate question.
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Is there life after death?
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Space, time, life itself.
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The secrets of the cosmos
lie through the wormhole.
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♪ Through the Wormhole 02x01 ♪
Is There Life After Death?
Original Air Date on June 7, 2011
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== sync, corrected by elderman ==
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Is death the end?
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Eternal silence?
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Blackness?
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Nothingness?
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Or is there a spark inside of us
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that lives on
beyond our physical selves?
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Philosophers and scientists
have puzzled over that question
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for thousands of years.
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It's the great mystery --
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one that, sooner or later,
we all have to face.
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One morning
when I was 6 years old,
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my grandmother didn't wake up --
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then or ever again.
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It was my first experience
with death.
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How could she be here yesterday
but gone today?
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Was she gone forever?
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Or did some essential part
of her live on?
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Christians and muslims believe
in a heaven for the just
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and a hell for sinners.
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Other religions see death
as a transition
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to an existence
on the higher plane
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or to another life
here on earth.
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All of these beliefs
have one thing in common --
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the body is just a vessel
for the soul,
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and the soul is eternal.
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This is something many believe
in their hearts,
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but is there a way to prove it
or disprove it scientifically?
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Eben Alexander taught
and performed neurosurgery
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at the Harvard Medical School
for 15 years.
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In 2008, his career took
an unexpected turn --
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one that would give him
profound insight
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into the possibility
of life after death.
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He contracted an extremely rare
form of bacterial meningitis
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and fell into a deep coma.
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I think if you were trying
to come up
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with an experimental model
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that would best approach
human death,
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meningitis is perfect
because what it does
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is it attacks the entire
outer surface of the brain.
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These are horizontal images
taken through my skull,
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and you can see the entire
outer surface of the brain
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was coated with pus.
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These bacteria had gotten rid
of all the glucose,
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and now the only thing left
to consumer were my brain cells,
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and so my entire neocortex --
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that part of the brain
that makes us human --
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was completely shut down.
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Freeman: After seven days
of virtual brain death,
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Alexander emerged from the coma.
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Miraculously, within a month,
he was back to normal.
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But something happened to him
while he was away.
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My first recollection
from deep inside the coma
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was that I was --
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it's what I sometimes call the
earthworm-eye view of the world.
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Everything was kind of murky,
brown, red, dark.
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I literally remember roots
over my head.
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And I seemed to be there
for a very, very long time.
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I had no memory whatsoever
of my life.
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No words --
my language was gone.
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I was certainly not aware
of anything going on around me
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in the I.C.U. room.
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And then, in the midst of that,
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there was a little melody that
was spinning in front of me.
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And it just started spinning
and expanded,
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and it ended up clearing away
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all that ugly, foreboding,
gross, muddy realm.
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And all of a sudden,
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I was coming up
into this beautiful meadow.
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I had no body awareness.
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I had no arms, legs,
or anything,
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but I was aware that I was
a speck on a butterfly wing --
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absolutely beautiful butterfly.
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And there were millions
of other colorful butterflies
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looping and swirling
all around us,
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all in this beautiful formation
of flying.
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And then we left this Universe
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and went out
into what I now call the core.
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At first, it seemed
infinitely huge and dark,
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although I was there
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with that beautiful,
warm awareness of the divine,
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which was clearly
what we would call God
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in this place
outside the Universe.
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Basically,
I recall the whole multiverse
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being out in front of me.
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It was very clear that love
was a huge part
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of the constituent
of that whole multiverse.
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Freeman:
Alexander had faced something
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that tens of thousands of people
have reported --
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a near-death experience.
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Nearly all claim something
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that science has so far
been unable to prove --
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that there is another existence
beyond the one we know.
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Dr. Alexander:
This was something
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that was very difficult
for me to explain
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from a neuroscientific
standpoint,
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and the scientific side of me
could not see how that could be,
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and yet it was
a very, very powerful --
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very powerful memory.
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I came up with several models
having to do
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with the neurophysiology
and neuroanatomy.
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And the problem is none of those
models sufficiently explain
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the very powerful memories
that I brought back with me
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from this experience.
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And I ended up at a point
where I do not believe
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that there is a good
neurophysiologic explanation
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for what happened to me.
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Freeman:
Eben Alexander's experience
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was profound and life-altering.
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But it is by no means unique.
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Bruce Greyson is a psychiatrist
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at the University of Virginia
School of Medicine.
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He has investigated
more than 1,000 cases
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of near-death experiences.
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The consistent features
of a near-death experience
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are a sense of profound peace
and well-being,
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a sense of leaving
the physical body,
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a sense of brilliant light
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which seems to radiate warmth
and unconditional love.
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Sometimes people report
encountering other beings,
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including a deity of some kind.
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Sometimes they identify
that deity as God or Christ,
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and sometimes they don't.
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They just say that there was
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this all-powerful being
that they met.
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Freeman: Many scientists dismiss
these experiences
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as nothing more
than hallucinations
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triggered by a brain undergoing
immense physical stress,
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mostly due to the nerve cells
being deprived of oxygen.
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Back in the 1970s,
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experiments
by the U.S. Air Force
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inadvertently tested this idea.
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Scientists spun pilots
in a centrifuge,
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subjecting their bodies
to massive g-forces.
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It caused blood
to drain to their feet
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and left their brains
starved for oxygen.
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They invariably blacked out.
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When they awoke, some pilots
reported seeing a bright light.
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Others said
they left their bodies
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and looked down at themselves
from above --
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experiences similar
to those of people
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who have been
to the brink of death,
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but lacking one key feature.
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In the period
when they were losing oxygen,
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as they were
losing consciousness,
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they had some features
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which bear some similarities
to near-death experiences.
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However, they certainly didn't
ever meet deceased loved ones
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or other entities.
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The problem with all of these
physiological explanations
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is that they don't account
for the complex thinking,
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the memory formation,
the perceptions that take place
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when we know the brain
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is not capable
of doing complex thinking.
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Freeman:
Are near-death experiences
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the final dream of a mind that's
about to wink out of existence?
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Or are they a sign that there is
something beyond death?
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Finding the truth
requires nothing less
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than a scientific quest
to discover the human soul.
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Is the soul a myth
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or one of the fundamental
elements of the Universe?
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For scientists,
the question of life after death
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is inextricably linked
with another question.
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What is consciousness?
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Where does consciousness
come from?
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And where does it go
when we die?
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Dr. Stuart Hameroff
is the director
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of consciousness studies at the
University of Arizona, Tucson.
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He's also a practicing
anesthesiologist.
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Under anesthesia,
patients don't dream --
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even though I said,
"pick out a nice dream."
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We always say that.
But there's no awareness.
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There's no passage of time.
Patients wake up.
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They don't know if they've been
asleep five minutes or five hours.
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Anesthesia takes away
consciousness.
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Brain under anesthesia
is quite active.
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And the difference
is still somewhat mysterious.
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Freeman: Years watching over
patients in the operating room
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made Hameroff obsessed
with understanding the link
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between brain activity
and consciousness.
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Then, 15 years ago,
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he met the great British
physicist, Sir Roger Penrose.
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Together, they developed
a radical new theory
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for how the brain works --
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a theory that has grown
into nothing less
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than a scientific argument
for an eternal soul.
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At its root are tiny structures
inside our brain cells
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called microtubules.
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Dr. Hameroff:
If you look inside a cell,
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you find these
structural components
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that are somewhat like the bones
within our bodies.
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The microtubules develop
literally a forest
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inside each cell,
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which determines
the architecture
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00:11:49,463 --> 00:11:50,830
and the structure of the cell.
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00:11:50,831 --> 00:11:54,401
And we think microtubules
are perfectly designed
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to be the cell's
onboard computer
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and process information
at the molecular level.
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Freeman: Hameroff and Penrose
argue that microtubules
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00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:05,111
allow neurons
and the brain as a whole
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00:12:05,112 --> 00:12:07,947
to function
as a quantum computer,
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00:12:07,948 --> 00:12:10,750
performing operations
in a fundamentally different way
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00:12:10,751 --> 00:12:14,220
from normal computers.
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Dr. Hameroff: So, here we have
a brain with two hemispheres.
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00:12:16,757 --> 00:12:18,124
Most views of the brain
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00:12:18,125 --> 00:12:20,660
are of a collection
of individual neurons.
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00:12:20,661 --> 00:12:22,095
When one neuron fires,
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00:12:22,096 --> 00:12:24,764
it sends a signal
to the next neuron at a synapse.
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00:12:24,765 --> 00:12:27,067
That, in turn,
causes that neuron to fire,
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00:12:27,068 --> 00:12:29,235
and that neuron causes
another neuron to fire,
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00:12:29,236 --> 00:12:30,737
much like dominoes.
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00:12:30,738 --> 00:12:33,706
So, for example,
if a neuron fires here,
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00:12:33,707 --> 00:12:35,241
it's gonna trigger
its neighbors to fire,
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00:12:35,242 --> 00:12:38,545
sending signals
through and around the brain.
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00:12:38,546 --> 00:12:41,014
That's the classical view
of how the brain works.
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00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:46,052
Freeman:
In a conventional computer,
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00:12:46,053 --> 00:12:48,254
signals move around
from place to place
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00:12:48,255 --> 00:12:52,459
along traceable paths.
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00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:55,128
But the microscopic components
of a quantum computer
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00:12:55,129 --> 00:13:01,134
are connected via a mysterious
process called entanglement.
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00:13:01,135 --> 00:13:04,370
Some of us think
that quantum processes
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00:13:04,371 --> 00:13:06,840
play an important role
in consciousness in the brain.
236
00:13:06,841 --> 00:13:09,742
So, for example, if there's
neuronal activity here,
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00:13:09,743 --> 00:13:12,345
it may be coupled through
quantum non-locality
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00:13:12,346 --> 00:13:14,314
to processes over here.
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00:13:14,315 --> 00:13:16,583
These neurons are connected
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00:13:16,584 --> 00:13:18,051
even though
they're spatially separated
241
00:13:18,052 --> 00:13:19,652
so that activity here
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00:13:19,653 --> 00:13:22,856
instantaneously affects
activity over here.
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00:13:22,857 --> 00:13:26,459
Freeman:
Hameroff and Penrose argue
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00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:29,162
that a change in the
microtubules in one brain cell
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00:13:29,163 --> 00:13:31,631
can affect microbules
in another.
246
00:13:31,632 --> 00:13:34,100
But that's not all.
247
00:13:34,101 --> 00:13:37,670
Quantum theory claims that
every single point in space,
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00:13:37,671 --> 00:13:42,375
even empty space,
can contain information.
249
00:13:42,376 --> 00:13:44,410
In the very fine structure
of the universe,
250
00:13:44,411 --> 00:13:47,180
there is information,
quantum information,
251
00:13:47,181 --> 00:13:49,015
not unlike these dominoes,
252
00:13:49,016 --> 00:13:52,886
so that we can have information
up or down, here and here,
253
00:13:52,887 --> 00:13:54,320
but they're connected
254
00:13:54,321 --> 00:13:56,222
so that something
that happens here
255
00:13:56,223 --> 00:13:57,624
influences something here.
256
00:13:57,625 --> 00:14:02,295
Freeman: This means the
information in the microtubules
257
00:14:02,296 --> 00:14:04,430
can connect and become entangled
258
00:14:04,431 --> 00:14:07,534
with the universe
outside the brain.
259
00:14:11,138 --> 00:14:14,274
Dr. Hameroff:
So, just like these two neurons
may be entangled,
260
00:14:14,275 --> 00:14:17,076
it's possible that the
information of consciousness,
261
00:14:17,077 --> 00:14:18,912
of the whole brain,
is entangled
262
00:14:18,913 --> 00:14:21,114
and can exist
in the universe at large.
263
00:14:22,917 --> 00:14:24,751
Freeman:
According to Hameroff,
264
00:14:24,752 --> 00:14:27,153
our souls are built
from something
265
00:14:27,154 --> 00:14:30,123
much more fundamental
than neurons.
266
00:14:30,124 --> 00:14:34,060
They are constructed from
the very fabric of the Universe.
267
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:38,831
Dr. Hameroff:
I think that consciousness
or its immediate precursor --
268
00:14:38,832 --> 00:14:40,633
we'll call it
proto-consciousness,
269
00:14:40,634 --> 00:14:42,435
has been in the Universe
all along,
270
00:14:42,436 --> 00:14:44,404
perhaps from the Big Bang.
271
00:14:49,877 --> 00:14:54,547
Freeman: All of this recalls
the Buddhist and Hindu belief
272
00:14:54,548 --> 00:14:57,550
that consciousness is an
integral part of the Universe,
273
00:14:57,551 --> 00:15:02,222
and perhaps it is all there is
in the Universe.
274
00:15:04,391 --> 00:15:06,960
If consciousness
is a quantum process,
275
00:15:06,961 --> 00:15:09,095
it may solve the mystery
of what happens
276
00:15:09,096 --> 00:15:12,632
during near-death experiences.
277
00:15:12,633 --> 00:15:15,401
Dr. Hameroff: Let's say
the heart stops beating,
278
00:15:15,402 --> 00:15:17,237
the blood stops flowing,
279
00:15:17,238 --> 00:15:19,706
the microtubules lose
their quantum state.
280
00:15:19,707 --> 00:15:24,010
But the quantum information,
which is in the microtubes,
281
00:15:24,011 --> 00:15:25,578
isn't destroyed.
282
00:15:25,579 --> 00:15:26,746
It can't be destroyed.
283
00:15:26,747 --> 00:15:28,581
It just distributes
and dissipates
284
00:15:28,582 --> 00:15:29,949
to the Universe at large.
285
00:15:29,950 --> 00:15:33,353
If the patient
is resuscitated, revived,
286
00:15:33,354 --> 00:15:36,322
this quantum information can go
back into the microtubules,
287
00:15:36,323 --> 00:15:39,225
and the patient says,
"I had a near-death experience.
288
00:15:39,226 --> 00:15:41,394
"I saw white light.
I saw a tunnel.
289
00:15:41,395 --> 00:15:42,862
"I saw my dead relatives.
290
00:15:42,863 --> 00:15:45,164
I maybe even floated
out of my body."
291
00:15:45,165 --> 00:15:48,835
Now, if they're not revived
and the patient dies,
292
00:15:48,836 --> 00:15:51,804
then it's possible
that this quantum information
293
00:15:51,805 --> 00:15:55,441
can exist outside the body,
perhaps indefinitely as a soul.
294
00:15:58,012 --> 00:16:00,313
Freeman: Many scientists
find it difficult to believe
295
00:16:00,314 --> 00:16:02,915
that the soul
is a quantum computer,
296
00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:04,784
hard-wired into the cosmos.
297
00:16:04,785 --> 00:16:09,355
But Hameroff feels that research
is slowly validating his claims.
298
00:16:09,356 --> 00:16:12,492
Quantum effects
have recently been shown
299
00:16:12,493 --> 00:16:15,662
to control several important
biological processes,
300
00:16:15,663 --> 00:16:19,732
from bird navigation
to photosynthesis
301
00:16:19,733 --> 00:16:22,735
to the human sense of smell.
302
00:16:22,736 --> 00:16:26,506
Dr. Hameroff:
So far, nobody has landed
a serious blow to the theory.
303
00:16:26,507 --> 00:16:30,209
We're still very viable,
and evidence continues --
304
00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:33,246
new evidence continues
to support the ideas
305
00:16:33,247 --> 00:16:35,081
that we put forth 15 years ago.
306
00:16:35,082 --> 00:16:37,483
Freeman:
But the truth is
307
00:16:37,484 --> 00:16:40,420
we still don't know
where consciousness comes from
308
00:16:40,421 --> 00:16:43,122
or where it goes when we die.
309
00:16:43,123 --> 00:16:46,826
If there was a way
to measure consciousness,
310
00:16:46,827 --> 00:16:50,430
perhaps we could find
the answers to these questions.
311
00:16:50,431 --> 00:16:52,999
That way may be coming soon,
312
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,670
as one scientist explores
the depths of our minds,
313
00:16:57,671 --> 00:17:01,007
hoping to discover
the mysterious mental pattern
314
00:17:01,008 --> 00:17:03,810
that makes us who we are.
315
00:17:08,038 --> 00:17:10,506
The human brain
isn't very big --
316
00:17:10,507 --> 00:17:13,276
3 pounds of soft tissue.
317
00:17:13,277 --> 00:17:18,247
But it can generate ideas
that transform the world.
318
00:17:18,248 --> 00:17:21,384
It can hold personalities
as diverse
319
00:17:21,385 --> 00:17:25,121
as Martin Luther King
and Genghis Khan.
320
00:17:25,122 --> 00:17:27,590
It even knows what it is.
321
00:17:27,591 --> 00:17:30,660
It's self-aware.
322
00:17:30,661 --> 00:17:34,163
We think it has a soul.
323
00:17:34,164 --> 00:17:37,467
But where does that soul
come from?
324
00:17:37,468 --> 00:17:41,070
Is consciousness
a product of the brain?
325
00:17:41,071 --> 00:17:43,539
And can it outlive the brain?
326
00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:47,610
Studying what happens to
the human brain when people die
327
00:17:47,611 --> 00:17:49,212
is not easy.
328
00:17:49,213 --> 00:17:51,747
Death rarely comes on cue.
329
00:17:51,748 --> 00:17:55,985
But one aspect of death
comes to all of us every day.
330
00:17:55,986 --> 00:18:01,491
Each night when we fall asleep,
our consciousness slips away.
331
00:18:04,161 --> 00:18:07,730
Professor Giulio Tononi
of the University of Wisconsin
332
00:18:07,731 --> 00:18:10,399
is studying
how our brains change
333
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,401
when they lose consciousness,
334
00:18:12,402 --> 00:18:14,403
and in doing so,
335
00:18:14,404 --> 00:18:19,275
he's hoping to unravel
the secret of what makes us us.
336
00:18:19,276 --> 00:18:21,143
The simplest definition
of consciousness --
337
00:18:21,144 --> 00:18:24,380
that which goes away when
you fall into dreamless sleep.
338
00:18:24,381 --> 00:18:25,948
But the fact of the matter is,
339
00:18:25,949 --> 00:18:27,850
the brain doesn't
shut off at all.
340
00:18:27,851 --> 00:18:31,053
The neurons, the nerve cells,
are actually just as active,
341
00:18:31,054 --> 00:18:33,956
in a sense,
as they are when you are awake.
342
00:18:33,957 --> 00:18:37,059
So, it is an interesting
scientific question.
343
00:18:37,060 --> 00:18:39,495
How would it be, then,
that you disappear
344
00:18:39,496 --> 00:18:41,998
when your brain is still there
and buzzing along?
345
00:18:41,999 --> 00:18:44,800
Freeman: Tononi believes
our level of awareness
346
00:18:44,801 --> 00:18:46,903
is determined
by how much information
347
00:18:46,904 --> 00:18:50,072
the different parts of our brain
share with each other.
348
00:18:50,073 --> 00:18:52,575
An experience rich in detail
349
00:18:52,576 --> 00:18:55,745
will generate highly complex
patterns in the brain,
350
00:18:55,746 --> 00:19:00,583
creating unique shapes that
Tononi believes can be measured.
351
00:19:00,584 --> 00:19:04,220
Every experience is essentially
like an extraordinary shape.
352
00:19:04,221 --> 00:19:08,591
Just like a fire
with wonderful flames
353
00:19:08,592 --> 00:19:11,494
is an extraordinary shape
that changes all the time.
354
00:19:11,495 --> 00:19:14,697
Now, it's a shape
which is characterized
355
00:19:14,698 --> 00:19:17,533
by something I would call
informational relationships.
356
00:19:17,534 --> 00:19:20,570
But it's a shape
that shines of inner light.
357
00:19:20,571 --> 00:19:23,372
The fire of consciousness
is a very special fire
358
00:19:23,373 --> 00:19:25,341
that's generated
inside the brain,
359
00:19:25,342 --> 00:19:28,277
and it requires a very special
set of ingredients
360
00:19:28,278 --> 00:19:30,513
in order to be able
to burn and shine.
361
00:19:30,514 --> 00:19:33,883
Freeman: But understanding
when that fire is lit
362
00:19:33,884 --> 00:19:36,185
and when it is extinguished
363
00:19:36,186 --> 00:19:40,423
is far more difficult than
simply reading a brain scan.
364
00:19:40,424 --> 00:19:44,760
So Giulio Tononi built
an entire lab
365
00:19:44,761 --> 00:19:49,265
dedicated to the unconscious
netherworld of dreamless sleep.
366
00:19:49,266 --> 00:19:52,735
And he designed an experiment
to detect how the brain changes
367
00:19:52,736 --> 00:19:54,570
when we lose consciousness.
368
00:19:54,571 --> 00:19:56,572
It's the neurological equivalent
369
00:19:56,573 --> 00:19:59,375
of knocking at the door
of a darkened house
370
00:19:59,376 --> 00:20:01,944
to find out
whether anyone is home.
371
00:20:01,945 --> 00:20:04,380
Tononi:
We use something called
372
00:20:04,381 --> 00:20:06,282
transcranium
magnetic stimulation,
373
00:20:06,283 --> 00:20:10,286
which is a way to inject
a little current in the brain
374
00:20:10,287 --> 00:20:12,221
without having to open it up,
375
00:20:12,222 --> 00:20:14,590
so in a perfectly innocuous way,
376
00:20:14,591 --> 00:20:18,761
and then see how our
cerebral cortex reacts to it.
377
00:20:18,762 --> 00:20:20,963
Freeman: First,
the team runs the experiment
378
00:20:20,964 --> 00:20:23,165
on a volunteer who's awake.
379
00:20:23,166 --> 00:20:25,201
A mesh of electrodes
will keep track
380
00:20:25,202 --> 00:20:27,269
of all activity in his brain.
381
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:31,007
Now a small magnetic coil
is placed on his head.
382
00:20:31,008 --> 00:20:34,443
At the flip of a switch,
it delivers a pulse of magnetism
383
00:20:34,444 --> 00:20:38,748
lasting a tenth of a second
to his cerebral cortex.
384
00:20:38,749 --> 00:20:42,251
The burst causes neurons
in a small patch of the brain
385
00:20:42,252 --> 00:20:43,753
to fire,
386
00:20:43,754 --> 00:20:46,088
and they, in turn,
send signals to other neurons,
387
00:20:46,089 --> 00:20:49,091
making them fire, as well.
388
00:20:49,092 --> 00:20:51,627
This complex pattern
of neural activity
389
00:20:51,628 --> 00:20:55,097
spreads out to cover
about a third of the cortex
390
00:20:55,098 --> 00:20:59,935
and lasts for almost
1/3 of a second.
391
00:20:59,936 --> 00:21:03,205
The conscious brain reverberates
like a ringing bell.
392
00:21:03,206 --> 00:21:06,042
Someone is definitely home.
393
00:21:06,043 --> 00:21:09,645
But what happens
when he's unconscious?
394
00:21:09,646 --> 00:21:11,747
Now that Brady is asleep,
395
00:21:11,748 --> 00:21:14,216
we are going to
ring the bell again
396
00:21:14,217 --> 00:21:19,255
and see how his brain responds
when -- after falling asleep.
397
00:21:21,291 --> 00:21:24,160
Freeman:
Once again, the brain lights up.
398
00:21:24,161 --> 00:21:28,364
But this time,
there is no reverberation.
399
00:21:28,365 --> 00:21:29,932
The ring of the bell dies
400
00:21:29,933 --> 00:21:32,868
as quickly as the pulse
of magnetism shuts off.
401
00:21:32,869 --> 00:21:35,538
The sleeping brain
may be active,
402
00:21:35,539 --> 00:21:38,307
but it has lost the ability
to share information
403
00:21:38,308 --> 00:21:41,677
between one part of the brain
and another.
404
00:21:41,678 --> 00:21:45,214
Tononi believes this
spreading of information
405
00:21:45,215 --> 00:21:48,918
is the key ingredient
of consciousness.
406
00:21:48,919 --> 00:21:51,954
The waking brain
keeps specialized areas
407
00:21:51,955 --> 00:21:53,789
in constant conversation,
408
00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:55,224
like a Cabinet meeting
409
00:21:55,225 --> 00:21:58,260
with the Secretary of State,
Treasury, and Defense
410
00:21:58,261 --> 00:22:01,630
all deciding
on a unified plan of action.
411
00:22:01,631 --> 00:22:04,967
When the brain is asleep,
the meeting adjourns.
412
00:22:04,968 --> 00:22:09,004
The specialists leave,
and nothing gets decided.
413
00:22:09,005 --> 00:22:10,406
Why do you lose consciousness
414
00:22:10,407 --> 00:22:12,608
when you are in deep sleep
early in the night?
415
00:22:12,609 --> 00:22:15,244
The specialists that normally
do talk to each other
416
00:22:15,245 --> 00:22:18,080
when you are awake --
they stop doing so.
417
00:22:18,081 --> 00:22:21,217
There is some mechanism that
comes into place when you sleep
418
00:22:21,218 --> 00:22:22,551
that makes the interaction
419
00:22:22,552 --> 00:22:24,220
between the specialists
difficult.
420
00:22:24,221 --> 00:22:25,621
And, in the end,
421
00:22:25,622 --> 00:22:28,390
it looks like they can't
talk to each other anymore,
422
00:22:28,391 --> 00:22:30,626
and not surprisingly, then,
you lose consciousness.
423
00:22:30,627 --> 00:22:31,961
You're not there anymore.
424
00:22:31,962 --> 00:22:35,030
Freeman: Tononi's ability
to tell the difference
425
00:22:35,031 --> 00:22:37,900
between a brain that's conscious
and one that's not
426
00:22:37,901 --> 00:22:41,904
may soon find application
in a medical setting,
427
00:22:41,905 --> 00:22:46,575
assessing the level of awareness
of coma patients.
428
00:22:46,576 --> 00:22:49,078
Tononi: One of the first things
you would want to know is,
429
00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:50,546
is anybody home?
430
00:22:50,547 --> 00:22:56,051
If that somebody is your wife
or your son or your mother
431
00:22:56,052 --> 00:22:58,220
and you see the eyes are open
432
00:22:58,221 --> 00:23:00,656
and you don't know
whether somebody's there,
433
00:23:00,657 --> 00:23:03,259
maybe even suffering,
how do you go about that?
434
00:23:03,260 --> 00:23:06,195
Freeman:
Giulio Tononi has found a way
435
00:23:06,196 --> 00:23:09,165
to see consciousness
in the human brain,
436
00:23:09,166 --> 00:23:13,702
but exactly how it arises amid
the complex web of neurons --
437
00:23:13,703 --> 00:23:18,040
that remains a mystery at which
he can only begin to guess.
438
00:23:20,177 --> 00:23:22,444
Tononi:
When one says that consciousness
439
00:23:22,445 --> 00:23:26,315
requires a complex system
to support it,
440
00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:28,117
in some sense,
that must be true.
441
00:23:28,118 --> 00:23:30,853
But the Internet
is certainly very complex.
442
00:23:30,854 --> 00:23:33,155
Another example,
you could also say
443
00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:36,792
that a chess-playing program
is very complex.
444
00:23:36,793 --> 00:23:39,628
So there are many things that
people intuitively call complex,
445
00:23:39,629 --> 00:23:41,096
but only a few of them
446
00:23:41,097 --> 00:23:43,199
seem to be able to give rise
to consciousness.
447
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,569
So what you need is
the right kind of complexity,
448
00:23:46,570 --> 00:23:50,072
and only a few structures --
as far as I can tell --
449
00:23:50,073 --> 00:23:53,108
can do that, can pull out
that extraordinary feat.
450
00:23:53,109 --> 00:23:55,277
Our cortex, the cerebral cortex,
451
00:23:55,278 --> 00:23:58,147
seems to be wired up
almost ideally
452
00:23:58,148 --> 00:23:59,882
to achieve exactly that.
453
00:24:04,454 --> 00:24:08,123
Freeman:
But is there a way to discover
the root of consciousness?
454
00:24:08,124 --> 00:24:10,693
And is this sense
of self-awareness
455
00:24:10,694 --> 00:24:12,695
the same as the soul?
456
00:24:12,696 --> 00:24:16,432
This man thinks
he's found the human soul
457
00:24:16,433 --> 00:24:19,802
and knows what happens to it
when we die.
458
00:24:26,111 --> 00:24:28,646
What is the soul?
459
00:24:28,647 --> 00:24:31,416
Is it a field of energy?
460
00:24:31,417 --> 00:24:33,685
Is it something tangible?
461
00:24:33,686 --> 00:24:37,221
Does it have weight?
462
00:24:37,222 --> 00:24:40,758
In 1907,
Dr. Duncan MacDougall determined
463
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:45,630
that the soul weighs
about 3/4 of an ounce,
464
00:24:45,631 --> 00:24:47,832
or 21 grams.
465
00:24:47,833 --> 00:24:52,904
He determined this by weighing
the bodies of dying TB patients.
466
00:24:52,905 --> 00:24:55,440
But in the 100 years since then,
467
00:24:55,441 --> 00:24:59,143
no one has been able
to replicate his findings
468
00:24:59,144 --> 00:25:05,349
because there doesn't seem
to be anything to weigh.
469
00:25:07,486 --> 00:25:13,691
Could there be some elusive
substance that makes you you?
470
00:25:13,692 --> 00:25:16,661
At the smallest levels
of existence,
471
00:25:16,662 --> 00:25:18,996
all matter is made of atoms.
472
00:25:18,997 --> 00:25:22,633
Earth has been recycling atoms
for billions of years.
473
00:25:22,634 --> 00:25:26,070
Carbon moves
from trees to oceans
474
00:25:26,071 --> 00:25:27,805
to the cells in our bodies.
475
00:25:27,806 --> 00:25:33,111
Even the atoms of dead people
get reused.
476
00:25:33,112 --> 00:25:36,280
This means that an atom
in your thigh bone
477
00:25:36,281 --> 00:25:39,650
might have been part
of Cleopatra's lower lip.
478
00:25:39,651 --> 00:25:45,056
And this recycling doesn't just
happen at the atomic level.
479
00:25:45,057 --> 00:25:50,495
You are constantly rebuilding
yourself at the cellular level.
480
00:25:50,496 --> 00:25:55,233
Your body produces 1 billion
new cells every hour.
481
00:25:55,234 --> 00:25:56,934
No matter how old you are,
482
00:25:56,935 --> 00:26:01,606
most of you is no more
than 10 years old.
483
00:26:01,607 --> 00:26:05,676
Christof Koch is a Professor
of biology and engineering
484
00:26:05,677 --> 00:26:07,478
at Caltech.
485
00:26:07,479 --> 00:26:10,081
He believes
that what makes you you
486
00:26:10,082 --> 00:26:13,818
has nothing to do with
individual atoms or cells.
487
00:26:13,819 --> 00:26:17,288
He believes that "you" emerges
from the unique way
488
00:26:17,289 --> 00:26:20,758
the cells in your brain
are organized.
489
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,494
The brain is the most complex
piece of matter
490
00:26:23,495 --> 00:26:25,029
we know in the Universe.
491
00:26:25,030 --> 00:26:27,031
The human brain typically
is on the order
492
00:26:27,032 --> 00:26:29,433
of 100 billion nerve cells.
493
00:26:29,434 --> 00:26:32,937
Each of those is a very
complicated entity by itself.
494
00:26:32,938 --> 00:26:35,039
It's more like
a little computer,
495
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,910
interconnected to 10,000
to 100,000 other nerve cells.
496
00:26:38,911 --> 00:26:43,047
Freeman: Separately,
these neurons aren't conscious.
497
00:26:43,048 --> 00:26:46,250
But when they interact with
each other on a massive scale,
498
00:26:46,251 --> 00:26:49,854
the result is
a self-aware network.
499
00:26:49,855 --> 00:26:52,356
We believe
that consciousness emerges
500
00:26:52,357 --> 00:26:56,227
out of the firing of millions
or possibly billions of neurons.
501
00:26:56,228 --> 00:26:57,962
So that's what my soul is.
502
00:26:57,963 --> 00:27:00,364
That's what my feelings,
my subjective feelings
503
00:27:00,365 --> 00:27:02,500
of pain and pleasure
and of yearning are.
504
00:27:02,501 --> 00:27:04,936
Freeman:
But if, as Koch believes,
505
00:27:04,937 --> 00:27:08,039
who we are stems exclusively
from this fragile
506
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,441
and ever-changing network
of brain cells,
507
00:27:10,442 --> 00:27:13,110
then there can be
no eternal you.
508
00:27:13,111 --> 00:27:14,512
Koch:
We constantly change.
509
00:27:14,513 --> 00:27:16,614
With each experience,
we change a little bit.
510
00:27:16,615 --> 00:27:18,482
With some experiences,
we change more,
511
00:27:18,483 --> 00:27:20,651
and with other experiences,
we change less.
512
00:27:20,652 --> 00:27:22,954
So, that sense,
there's no constant.
513
00:27:22,955 --> 00:27:26,057
And as we age, again,
my mind -- my body,
514
00:27:26,058 --> 00:27:28,626
but also my personality
and my mind changes.
515
00:27:28,627 --> 00:27:32,196
So, that sense,
there's no constant personality.
516
00:27:32,197 --> 00:27:36,133
It's a changing construct
of the brain and by the brain.
517
00:27:36,134 --> 00:27:40,671
Freeman: This view of the brain
is called materialism,
518
00:27:40,672 --> 00:27:42,940
and Koch is its champion.
519
00:27:42,941 --> 00:27:44,375
For materialists,
520
00:27:44,376 --> 00:27:47,178
the soul is nothing more
than a fleeting illusion,
521
00:27:47,179 --> 00:27:49,881
an illusion that cannot outlive
522
00:27:49,882 --> 00:27:52,316
the physical network
from which it arises.
523
00:27:55,354 --> 00:27:58,155
Once that
electrical traffic ceases
524
00:27:58,156 --> 00:28:00,191
because the brain itself
doesn't work anymore
525
00:28:00,192 --> 00:28:02,226
and the neurons stop firing,
526
00:28:02,227 --> 00:28:06,230
then, also, the soul
will cease to exist.
527
00:28:08,467 --> 00:28:12,003
Freeman: But renowned cognitive
scientist Douglas Hofstadter
528
00:28:12,004 --> 00:28:15,606
is not so quick to dismiss the
possibility of life after death.
529
00:28:15,607 --> 00:28:19,243
He believes the soul does not
disappear the moment we die.
530
00:28:19,244 --> 00:28:21,779
Hofstadter: When I was
a graduate student in physics,
531
00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:25,516
I had a professor
who I was very fond of
532
00:28:25,517 --> 00:28:30,521
who was a religious person.
533
00:28:30,522 --> 00:28:36,460
And he believed, to my shock
and surprise and confusion,
534
00:28:36,461 --> 00:28:38,963
that inside the brain,
535
00:28:38,964 --> 00:28:41,532
there were certain kinds
of particles
536
00:28:41,533 --> 00:28:44,001
that we hadn't yet discovered
537
00:28:44,002 --> 00:28:47,405
that gave rise
to soul and consciousness.
538
00:28:47,406 --> 00:28:49,707
Freeman: Hofstadter took
a more scientific approach
539
00:28:49,708 --> 00:28:51,108
to the brain.
540
00:28:51,109 --> 00:28:54,712
He became a pioneer in modeling
complex mental processes.
541
00:28:54,713 --> 00:28:57,715
He thinks about
how people think.
542
00:28:57,716 --> 00:29:01,018
And what humans do best,
in his opinion,
543
00:29:01,019 --> 00:29:04,555
is make mental maps
of the world around them.
544
00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:07,692
The process
of perceiving a world
545
00:29:07,693 --> 00:29:11,662
gives rise to internal
representations of everything.
546
00:29:11,663 --> 00:29:14,198
You know, if I look
at this pepper shaker,
547
00:29:14,199 --> 00:29:17,368
I have an internal model of it.
548
00:29:17,369 --> 00:29:19,036
And I don't need to look at it
549
00:29:19,037 --> 00:29:21,105
because I've seen it
so many times,
550
00:29:21,106 --> 00:29:23,741
I have an internal model of it
that is stable.
551
00:29:23,742 --> 00:29:27,411
Freeman:
All animals make mental maps.
552
00:29:27,412 --> 00:29:31,082
The bigger the animal,
the more complex the map.
553
00:29:31,083 --> 00:29:34,986
A bee knows the position
of the sun and its hive.
554
00:29:34,987 --> 00:29:36,921
A manta ray learns to navigate
555
00:29:36,922 --> 00:29:41,425
the convoluted web
of ocean currents.
556
00:29:41,426 --> 00:29:42,994
A baboon must keep track
557
00:29:42,995 --> 00:29:46,697
of the troop's
social pecking order.
558
00:29:46,698 --> 00:29:48,132
Our maps are built
559
00:29:48,133 --> 00:29:51,202
from a lifetime of objects
and people we've encountered...
560
00:29:51,203 --> 00:29:53,971
And one other crucial element.
561
00:29:53,972 --> 00:29:58,609
Hofstadter: We incorporate
not only the rest of the world,
562
00:29:58,610 --> 00:30:01,045
but we incorporate
our own understanding
563
00:30:01,046 --> 00:30:03,381
of who we are and what we are,
564
00:30:03,382 --> 00:30:07,585
which includes
superficial, physical things
565
00:30:07,586 --> 00:30:09,487
like the fact
that we have two hands
566
00:30:09,488 --> 00:30:11,789
and five fingers on each hand,
567
00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:14,458
what kind of sense of humor
we have,
568
00:30:14,459 --> 00:30:17,661
whether we're good at throwing
free-throws in basketball
569
00:30:17,662 --> 00:30:19,263
or hook shots.
570
00:30:19,264 --> 00:30:25,369
And we create a concept
that reflects who we are.
571
00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:29,006
Freeman: Hofstadter regards
this map of the world
572
00:30:29,007 --> 00:30:31,575
that also includes a map
of the map-maker
573
00:30:31,576 --> 00:30:33,878
as a mental feedback loop.
574
00:30:35,781 --> 00:30:38,783
If you point a television camera
at a television screen
575
00:30:38,784 --> 00:30:41,619
and then the screen
gets put onto itself,
576
00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:43,087
et cetera, et cetera,
577
00:30:43,088 --> 00:30:45,923
and you get a very complex
visual pattern --
578
00:30:45,924 --> 00:30:48,893
the system itself
is perceiving itself.
579
00:30:48,894 --> 00:30:52,163
To me, the soul is
an emergent process,
580
00:30:52,164 --> 00:30:54,565
an emergent entity
that comes out of decades
581
00:30:54,566 --> 00:30:59,136
of perception and feedback.
582
00:30:59,137 --> 00:31:01,939
Freeman:
But this view of consciousness
583
00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:03,908
has a shocking implication.
584
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:07,645
If the soul is just
a strange mental feedback loop,
585
00:31:07,646 --> 00:31:10,614
then it should not be
unique to humans.
586
00:31:10,615 --> 00:31:15,186
Any sufficiently smart network
should be able to experience it,
587
00:31:15,187 --> 00:31:17,421
whatever it is made of.
588
00:31:17,422 --> 00:31:19,890
Which is why
this latter-day Frankenstein
589
00:31:19,891 --> 00:31:22,593
is planning to build a soul.
590
00:31:22,594 --> 00:31:26,363
What he learns could point
the way to a life beyond death.
591
00:31:30,176 --> 00:31:34,279
Religion tells us that our souls
transcend the body.
592
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:40,218
These are just shells that we
walk a around in for a while.
593
00:31:40,219 --> 00:31:43,555
Most scientists
don't believe that.
594
00:31:43,556 --> 00:31:46,691
They say
that what we call the soul
595
00:31:46,692 --> 00:31:49,494
is a self-aware network
of brain connections
596
00:31:49,495 --> 00:31:52,864
that evolved
over millions of years.
597
00:31:52,865 --> 00:31:55,467
If that's true,
598
00:31:55,468 --> 00:32:01,106
then what would happen if we
built a copy of the human brain?
599
00:32:01,107 --> 00:32:03,341
Would it have a soul?
600
00:32:03,342 --> 00:32:06,278
We're on the verge
of finding out.
601
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:08,180
And if the mystery of the mind
602
00:32:08,181 --> 00:32:10,949
is something we can crack
computationally,
603
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:16,521
it would even give us
an escape route from death.
604
00:32:20,159 --> 00:32:23,128
Around the world,
teams of researchers
605
00:32:23,129 --> 00:32:27,732
are attempting to
reverse-engineer a human brain.
606
00:32:27,733 --> 00:32:31,436
It's a tough job,
because for all our research,
607
00:32:31,437 --> 00:32:34,306
the brain is still the most
complicated instrument
608
00:32:34,307 --> 00:32:37,008
in the known Universe.
609
00:32:37,009 --> 00:32:40,212
But mapping the brain
could take decades to complete,
610
00:32:40,213 --> 00:32:42,080
which is why
some rebel scientists
611
00:32:42,081 --> 00:32:43,982
have decided to harness
the firepower
612
00:32:43,983 --> 00:32:47,686
inside living brain cells.
613
00:32:47,687 --> 00:32:49,955
They're trying to crack
the secrets of the soul
614
00:32:49,956 --> 00:32:54,126
by fusing biology
and technology,
615
00:32:54,127 --> 00:32:58,930
taking bits of brain and mating
them to bits of hardware.
616
00:32:58,931 --> 00:33:01,266
Most computer simulations
617
00:33:01,267 --> 00:33:05,637
are limited
to very simplistic neurons.
618
00:33:05,638 --> 00:33:08,039
What we have here
in our culture dishes
619
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,143
with real, live, wet,
squishy neurons
620
00:33:11,144 --> 00:33:12,711
with all their complexity,
621
00:33:12,712 --> 00:33:15,180
is immensely
much more complicated
622
00:33:15,181 --> 00:33:17,449
than anything we can simulate
on today's computers.
623
00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:20,385
Freeman:
Professor Steve Potter
624
00:33:20,386 --> 00:33:22,821
of the Georgia Institute
of Technology
625
00:33:22,822 --> 00:33:25,290
designs and builds brains --
626
00:33:25,291 --> 00:33:28,493
brains that are
half-living, half-machine.
627
00:33:28,494 --> 00:33:33,331
Potter's team takes neurons
cultured from rat embryos
628
00:33:33,332 --> 00:33:36,701
then grows them on miniature
plates of electrodes.
629
00:33:36,702 --> 00:33:39,638
Potter:
Here is a multi-electrode array
culture dish.
630
00:33:39,639 --> 00:33:43,341
You can see some fluorescently
labeled neurons growing on it.
631
00:33:43,342 --> 00:33:45,243
These are the electrodes
632
00:33:45,244 --> 00:33:48,513
with leads heading off
to the electronics
633
00:33:48,514 --> 00:33:52,284
that we use to record from
and stimulate the cells.
634
00:33:52,285 --> 00:33:54,653
These are all the axons
and dendrites
635
00:33:54,654 --> 00:33:57,656
that represent the connections
between the cells.
636
00:33:57,657 --> 00:34:00,659
Those connections form
637
00:34:00,660 --> 00:34:03,328
over the course of the first
four hours in culture.
638
00:34:03,329 --> 00:34:05,830
You can see
on this time lapse here
639
00:34:05,831 --> 00:34:07,699
connections forming.
640
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:10,202
So, those are
the synaptic connections
641
00:34:10,203 --> 00:34:12,337
by which the neurons
talk to each other,
642
00:34:12,338 --> 00:34:15,840
and we can film
that conversation in progress
643
00:34:15,841 --> 00:34:18,543
using a calcium-sensitive dye
here.
644
00:34:18,544 --> 00:34:20,912
So, here you can see
the cells flashing.
645
00:34:20,913 --> 00:34:23,114
Every time the cell sends
a signal to another cell,
646
00:34:23,115 --> 00:34:24,683
it has a little burst
of calcium.
647
00:34:24,684 --> 00:34:27,719
Freeman:
When the brain has grown,
648
00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:31,423
Potter send information to it
through the electrodes,
649
00:34:31,424 --> 00:34:34,259
and the brain responds.
650
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:36,828
Those electrodes
are connected to a computer
651
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:40,665
that's wired up to a robot body,
652
00:34:40,666 --> 00:34:43,535
resulting in a new form of life.
653
00:34:43,536 --> 00:34:46,204
This is hybrot --
654
00:34:46,205 --> 00:34:49,908
a robot controlled
by living brain tissue.
655
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:51,710
Its brains
are in a refrigerator,
656
00:34:51,711 --> 00:34:55,680
but you can see its neurons
react on the computer screen
657
00:34:55,681 --> 00:34:59,417
as its body finds its way
around the lab bench.
658
00:34:59,418 --> 00:35:01,386
Like any animal,
659
00:35:01,387 --> 00:35:04,055
the hybrot has experiences
and learns from them.
660
00:35:04,056 --> 00:35:07,859
In this case, how to navigate
its environment.
661
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:13,298
So, the question is, could
a hybrot ever become conscious?
662
00:35:15,601 --> 00:35:20,171
Whether or not we could ever get
to conscious cultured networks
663
00:35:20,172 --> 00:35:23,875
is a question which I would say
we've already answered "yes."
664
00:35:23,876 --> 00:35:25,410
We have culture dishes
665
00:35:25,411 --> 00:35:27,412
that are receiving inputs
from the environment.
666
00:35:27,413 --> 00:35:29,414
They're responding to them
in complicated ways.
667
00:35:29,415 --> 00:35:32,217
So they're conscious
of their environment
668
00:35:32,218 --> 00:35:33,885
in some very rudimentary
fashion.
669
00:35:33,886 --> 00:35:36,087
Perhaps with
more complicated interactions
670
00:35:36,088 --> 00:35:37,622
between different brain tissues
671
00:35:37,623 --> 00:35:39,624
and between the computer
and the brain tissues,
672
00:35:39,625 --> 00:35:42,027
we could get to something
that people would say
673
00:35:42,028 --> 00:35:45,864
is a high-level cognition,
more like human consciousness.
674
00:35:45,865 --> 00:35:50,068
Freeman: But if one day a hybrot
or a computer wakes up
675
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:52,971
and realizes what and who it is,
676
00:35:52,972 --> 00:35:55,840
if a soul emerges
from those wires,
677
00:35:55,841 --> 00:35:58,576
how would we know?
678
00:35:58,577 --> 00:36:02,047
We'll have to rely
on conversation.
679
00:36:02,048 --> 00:36:05,050
If we asked the artificial
brain, "are you conscious?"
680
00:36:05,051 --> 00:36:07,152
And it persuades us that it is,
681
00:36:07,153 --> 00:36:09,287
we'll just have to
take its word.
682
00:36:09,288 --> 00:36:12,123
But the same thing applies
when we talk to other humans.
683
00:36:12,124 --> 00:36:15,327
We don't actually know
that other people are conscious.
684
00:36:15,328 --> 00:36:19,064
They might just be zombies
who are saying the right thing
685
00:36:19,065 --> 00:36:21,966
but having no private,
subjective experience.
686
00:36:24,136 --> 00:36:27,939
I can put some sort
of an artificial intelligence
687
00:36:27,940 --> 00:36:29,341
into a computer right now
688
00:36:29,342 --> 00:36:31,643
that represents the kind of
decisions I might make
689
00:36:31,644 --> 00:36:35,347
and has, in some sense,
some of my consciousness in it.
690
00:36:35,348 --> 00:36:37,148
So that's not hard to do.
691
00:36:37,149 --> 00:36:38,817
But to get something
that we would say
692
00:36:38,818 --> 00:36:40,585
is a good enough copy
of my consciousness
693
00:36:40,586 --> 00:36:43,321
that if it were put back
in somebody else's body,
694
00:36:43,322 --> 00:36:45,990
people would be fooled
into thinking it was me --
695
00:36:45,991 --> 00:36:48,693
this is something
we haven't even the first clue
696
00:36:48,694 --> 00:36:51,329
of how to do it
in any kind of a detailed way.
697
00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:55,500
Freeman: Building artificial
homes for our souls
698
00:36:55,501 --> 00:36:58,069
may be a long time coming,
699
00:36:58,070 --> 00:37:00,905
so what do we do
in the meantime?
700
00:37:00,906 --> 00:37:02,874
Turns out the ideal vessels
701
00:37:02,875 --> 00:37:05,977
to carry souls
after the death of the body
702
00:37:05,978 --> 00:37:08,580
may already exist.
703
00:37:08,581 --> 00:37:12,250
One could be sitting
right next to you.
704
00:37:16,395 --> 00:37:18,696
Despite our advanced technology,
705
00:37:18,697 --> 00:37:23,668
the riddle of life still seems
a long way from being solved --
706
00:37:23,669 --> 00:37:27,472
or...Is it?
707
00:37:27,473 --> 00:37:30,408
In Bloomington, Indiana,
708
00:37:30,409 --> 00:37:35,480
Douglas Hofstadter says it's
all a matter of perspective.
709
00:37:35,481 --> 00:37:39,016
He believes consciousness
is the inevitable result
710
00:37:39,017 --> 00:37:40,818
of the strange and wonderful way
711
00:37:40,819 --> 00:37:43,221
the brain joins
information together
712
00:37:43,222 --> 00:37:45,590
into patterns of thought.
713
00:37:45,591 --> 00:37:48,626
And the patterns of thought
that form us
714
00:37:48,627 --> 00:37:51,562
are not unique to us.
715
00:37:51,563 --> 00:37:54,465
We are all curious collages
716
00:37:54,466 --> 00:37:57,602
of everyone
we've ever been influenced by,
717
00:37:57,603 --> 00:38:00,137
living or dead.
718
00:38:00,138 --> 00:38:01,739
The pattern of your soul
719
00:38:01,740 --> 00:38:04,976
is the strongest and
most complex in your own brain,
720
00:38:04,977 --> 00:38:08,012
but it can be passed on
to other brains.
721
00:38:11,383 --> 00:38:13,684
Hofstadter:
This is a book of Chopin études.
722
00:38:13,685 --> 00:38:18,189
These black splotches
on white paper
723
00:38:18,190 --> 00:38:22,226
capture some
very, very central pieces
724
00:38:22,227 --> 00:38:23,961
of Chopin's emotionality --
725
00:38:23,962 --> 00:38:28,533
his highs, his lows,
726
00:38:28,534 --> 00:38:30,034
his sense of triumph,
727
00:38:30,035 --> 00:38:34,005
his sense of resignation
or anguish.
728
00:38:34,006 --> 00:38:37,708
Anything that was part of his
emotional makeup comes through,
729
00:38:37,709 --> 00:38:40,611
and one gets a very deep glimpse
of another human being.
730
00:38:40,612 --> 00:38:43,714
Perhaps 150, 160 years
after that person
731
00:38:43,715 --> 00:38:47,718
has officially vanished
from the surface of the earth,
732
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,820
something of their soul persists
733
00:38:49,821 --> 00:38:54,659
and invades the minds and brains
of millions of other people.
734
00:38:54,660 --> 00:38:58,496
Freeman: This is a form
of life after death
735
00:38:58,497 --> 00:39:00,464
that we all experience,
736
00:39:00,465 --> 00:39:03,467
though we may not recognize it
for what it is.
737
00:39:05,537 --> 00:39:09,206
Freeman:
It took a great personal tragedy
for Hofstadter to see this --
738
00:39:09,207 --> 00:39:11,909
the death of his wife, Carol.
739
00:39:14,379 --> 00:39:15,913
We were in Italy,
740
00:39:15,914 --> 00:39:20,184
and it was a very sudden
discovery of a brain tumor.
741
00:39:20,185 --> 00:39:23,487
And we only found out
that she had a brain tumor
742
00:39:23,488 --> 00:39:26,257
on the 11th of December,
743
00:39:26,258 --> 00:39:28,092
and on the 12th of December,
in the evening,
744
00:39:28,093 --> 00:39:30,461
she fell into a coma.
745
00:39:30,462 --> 00:39:35,800
So it was very, very, very fast.
746
00:39:35,801 --> 00:39:38,336
When somebody that
I have been entangled with
747
00:39:38,337 --> 00:39:40,237
for so long and so deeply
748
00:39:40,238 --> 00:39:42,707
is suddenly poofed
out of existence,
749
00:39:42,708 --> 00:39:46,744
I then had to, you know,
confront the question
750
00:39:46,745 --> 00:39:50,147
of what, if anything, survived
751
00:39:50,148 --> 00:39:52,083
and where, if at all,
752
00:39:52,084 --> 00:39:56,520
can a human soul
be transplanted,
753
00:39:56,521 --> 00:39:59,490
uprooted from one brain
to another brain?
754
00:39:59,491 --> 00:40:04,462
And my answer
would have to be,
755
00:40:04,463 --> 00:40:08,065
in a very limited sense, yes.
756
00:40:08,066 --> 00:40:11,902
The degree to which Carol
exists inside me --
757
00:40:11,903 --> 00:40:16,240
it's a much stripped-down
version of her.
758
00:40:16,241 --> 00:40:19,910
It's a crude version.
It's coarse-grained.
759
00:40:19,911 --> 00:40:22,346
It's as if one had a mosaic done
760
00:40:22,347 --> 00:40:27,051
in very, very small,
fine stones --
761
00:40:27,052 --> 00:40:28,552
a million of them.
762
00:40:28,553 --> 00:40:30,788
And then it was a destroyed,
763
00:40:30,789 --> 00:40:32,790
but somebody,
before it was destroyed,
764
00:40:32,791 --> 00:40:36,661
had made a copy of it
but only using 1,000 stones.
765
00:40:36,662 --> 00:40:38,929
And so the 1,000 stones
766
00:40:38,930 --> 00:40:41,565
still have the same colors and
the same kind of arrangement,
767
00:40:41,566 --> 00:40:44,535
but much more coarse-grained,
in a different medium,
768
00:40:44,536 --> 00:40:46,203
in different stones.
769
00:40:46,204 --> 00:40:47,938
The original has been destroyed,
770
00:40:47,939 --> 00:40:53,244
but the copy exists
in a coarse-grained version.
771
00:40:53,245 --> 00:40:56,347
Freeman:
And so, we live on.
772
00:40:56,348 --> 00:40:58,816
A piece of our soul survives
773
00:40:58,817 --> 00:41:01,385
in everyone
we have ever encountered.
774
00:41:01,386 --> 00:41:02,987
That soul fragment
775
00:41:02,988 --> 00:41:06,457
is the strongest,
most recognizable
776
00:41:06,458 --> 00:41:08,392
in the people who loved us.
777
00:41:08,393 --> 00:41:12,430
This form of life after death
is one we can all relate to,
778
00:41:12,431 --> 00:41:14,398
whatever our religion.
779
00:41:14,399 --> 00:41:18,369
But is there some other
resting place for the soul?
780
00:41:18,370 --> 00:41:21,272
Does our consciousness
just shimmer out of existence
781
00:41:21,273 --> 00:41:23,708
in our last moments on earth?
782
00:41:23,709 --> 00:41:27,144
Is the soul nothing more than
a network of neural processes,
783
00:41:27,145 --> 00:41:30,548
something that one day
can be recreated in a machine?
784
00:41:30,549 --> 00:41:33,250
Or does the quantum state
of our brain
785
00:41:33,251 --> 00:41:36,887
get reabsorbed
into the Universe at large?
786
00:41:36,888 --> 00:41:39,990
Scientists believe
they are finally getting close
787
00:41:39,991 --> 00:41:42,159
to solving this puzzle,
788
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,730
even though they passionately
disagree about the answer.
789
00:41:45,731 --> 00:41:47,765
When you lose consciousness,
you lose your soul.
790
00:41:47,766 --> 00:41:49,100
You lose everything.
791
00:41:49,101 --> 00:41:51,168
The world does not
exist anymore for you.
792
00:41:51,169 --> 00:41:53,437
Your friends
don't exist anymore.
793
00:41:53,438 --> 00:41:55,773
You don't exist.
Everything is lost.
794
00:41:55,774 --> 00:41:58,909
If you take these near-death
experiences at face value,
795
00:41:58,910 --> 00:42:03,981
then they suggest that the mind
or the consciousness
796
00:42:03,982 --> 00:42:07,184
seems to function
without the physical body.
797
00:42:07,185 --> 00:42:09,153
Dr. Hameroff:
I think the quantum approach
798
00:42:09,154 --> 00:42:10,855
to consciousness
can, in principle,
799
00:42:10,856 --> 00:42:14,492
explain why we're here
and what our purpose is
800
00:42:14,493 --> 00:42:18,062
and also the possibility of life
after death and reincarnation
801
00:42:18,063 --> 00:42:20,331
and the persistence
of consciousness
802
00:42:20,332 --> 00:42:22,066
after our bodies give up.
803
00:42:22,067 --> 00:42:27,438
Dr. Alexander: I have
great belief and knowledge
804
00:42:27,439 --> 00:42:30,541
that there is
a wonderful existence
805
00:42:30,542 --> 00:42:33,811
for our souls
outside of this earthly realm,
806
00:42:33,812 --> 00:42:37,615
and that is our true reality.
807
00:42:37,616 --> 00:42:41,786
And we all find that out
when we leave this earth.
808
00:42:41,787 --> 00:42:45,656
Ultimately, every one of us
will discover the truth.
809
00:42:45,657 --> 00:42:49,426
But will we ever enter
our final hour
810
00:42:49,427 --> 00:42:52,963
knowing our fate?
811
00:42:52,964 --> 00:42:56,834
Perhaps some things really are
too big for humans to grasp.
812
00:42:56,835 --> 00:43:01,205
That's when we have to shift
from what we know
813
00:43:01,206 --> 00:43:03,474
to what we believe.
814
00:43:03,499 --> 00:43:07,499
== sync, corrected by elderman ==65599
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