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Something is going on in nerve center.
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In the most extreme cases, heart attack.
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Is it true that
they can't find his head?
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00:00:18,918 --> 00:00:21,119
Since I was a young boy,
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00:00:21,220 --> 00:00:23,488
I've been collecting
haunted artifacts,
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00:00:23,589 --> 00:00:27,293
drawn to the dark and mysterious
energy they carry.
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The Manson murders
will go down as one of
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the most heinous crimes
of all time.
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Through my career as
a paranormal investigator,
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I've been able to build
my collection.
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00:00:37,403 --> 00:00:39,672
Now, I'm building a museum.
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The Conjure Chest
is one of the deadliest
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haunted artifacts in existence.
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00:00:43,509 --> 00:00:45,678
Robert the Doll has
affected thousands of people.
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00:00:45,778 --> 00:00:48,614
And providing a
place for people to bring
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00:00:48,715 --> 00:00:51,651
their haunted items
and hear their stories.
17
00:00:51,751 --> 00:00:54,187
We aid people
into coming into the world.
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00:00:54,287 --> 00:00:56,388
Why can't we aid them
in exiting it?
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00:00:57,656 --> 00:01:01,061
These are my deadly possessions.
20
00:01:06,566 --> 00:01:08,401
My name's Jayne Harris
from Stourbridge, England.
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I'm currently the owner
of a doll named Peggy.
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It all started when I posted
a photo of her online
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and received hundreds of
responses from people
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all over the world
who were experiencing
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serious, potentially
fatal health issues
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as a result of seeing her.
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At this point,
we're really not sure what to do next.
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And I would welcome Zak's help.
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Why does the doll
have a sack on its head?
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Honestly, she...
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hasn't been around many people,
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and when she has,
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things have happened,
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so...
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00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,023
In the most extreme cases,
heart attack.
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00:02:10,997 --> 00:02:13,199
So... people,
when they look at the doll,
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they've had a heart attack.
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Had heart attacks, yeah.
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That's interesting, um...
40
00:02:24,194 --> 00:02:25,678
It's interesting,
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00:02:25,778 --> 00:02:29,082
because when I initially showed
a picture online of the doll,
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we had about
30 messages overnight.
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These people are experiencing
these things
44
00:02:34,954 --> 00:02:37,923
just by looking
at a picture of her?
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00:02:38,023 --> 00:02:41,861
We have a folder
of statements from people.
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- I know for sure...
- ...Still have tingling...
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...Had a
sharp pain in my chest.
48
00:02:46,065 --> 00:02:50,002
Over the past year, um,
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00:02:50,102 --> 00:02:53,572
about 200 I would say, I guess.
50
00:02:53,672 --> 00:02:55,007
I got the
feeling I couldn't breathe.
51
00:02:55,108 --> 00:02:56,909
I got a pain in my right eye.
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- Lights turned off-- couldn't see.
- I had to lie down.
53
00:02:58,744 --> 00:03:00,513
I have felt
like someone is in my home.
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00:03:00,613 --> 00:03:03,316
And it was incredible,
because we weren't sharing--
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00:03:03,416 --> 00:03:05,384
we weren't making it public
56
00:03:05,484 --> 00:03:07,286
that anything was going on
for anyone.
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00:03:07,387 --> 00:03:10,389
Who do you believe the doll
is possessed by,
58
00:03:10,489 --> 00:03:13,225
and why was the doll
given the name Peggy?
59
00:03:13,325 --> 00:03:15,695
Back in February,
a psychic medium gave us
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00:03:15,795 --> 00:03:19,298
the name of a lady he was
connecting with called Peggy.
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00:03:19,398 --> 00:03:22,835
How do you think
that this doll has the power
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00:03:22,935 --> 00:03:25,204
to infect those
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00:03:25,304 --> 00:03:27,906
just by looking at a picture
of it on Facebook or online?
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00:03:28,006 --> 00:03:30,577
- I've never seen this before.
- We don't understand that, I mean,
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00:03:30,677 --> 00:03:33,512
whether it's-- whether it's
a case that the spirits
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00:03:33,612 --> 00:03:35,781
are aware when someone takes
an interest in them.
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00:03:35,882 --> 00:03:38,451
While there isn't
a lot of documentation
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00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:42,021
about Peggy's history, we do
know she was made in England
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00:03:42,121 --> 00:03:44,090
in the late 1960s.
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00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:46,226
The original owner
bought the doll,
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um, just at a sale,
and pretty much straightaway,
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things started happening
in her home.
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She would hear footsteps.
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00:03:53,533 --> 00:03:56,268
She would wake up at 3 a.m.
and feel that there was someone
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in the room,
and she became more and more fearful.
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00:03:58,871 --> 00:04:00,572
She lost weight,
she couldn't eat.
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00:04:00,672 --> 00:04:02,575
She had nausea, migraines.
78
00:04:02,675 --> 00:04:06,445
The original owner was
overwhelmed by Peggy's power,
79
00:04:06,545 --> 00:04:10,283
so she sought out someone
to take the doll off her hands.
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00:04:10,383 --> 00:04:13,052
She contacted me,
because she'd been online
81
00:04:13,152 --> 00:04:16,087
googling haunted objects,
came across--
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00:04:16,188 --> 00:04:18,289
it's what we do, I've been
studying this kind of thing
83
00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:20,426
for about 17 years...
experienced a touch...
84
00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:22,461
So you specialize in this.
85
00:04:22,561 --> 00:04:25,798
- I've had some experiences, yeah, nothing like this.
- Okay.
86
00:04:25,898 --> 00:04:28,434
Um... this has kind of thrown out
87
00:04:28,534 --> 00:04:32,037
- all my theories and ideas on what the
spirit world's about -
88
00:04:32,137 --> 00:04:33,672
to be honest.
89
00:04:35,441 --> 00:04:37,542
Is it something dark
that's with the doll?
90
00:04:37,644 --> 00:04:39,378
All of a sudden,
I'm being plagued by flies.
91
00:04:39,478 --> 00:04:42,455
I've never seen flies in here.
92
00:04:45,218 --> 00:04:46,653
So, yeah.
93
00:04:46,654 --> 00:04:48,087
Flies, infestation of flies.
94
00:04:49,722 --> 00:04:52,358
Does Peggy--
does Peggy bring flies with her?
95
00:04:52,458 --> 00:04:55,194
As we're talking
about demonic stuff.
96
00:04:55,294 --> 00:04:57,296
I don't-- I don't know.
97
00:04:57,396 --> 00:04:59,298
There's so much about her
that we don't know,
98
00:04:59,398 --> 00:05:01,033
and as I said,
the longer she's with me,
99
00:05:01,133 --> 00:05:03,335
the more questions
I've got-- I just don't...
100
00:05:03,436 --> 00:05:06,037
it's what's fascinating,
but it's also what's terrifying, as well,
101
00:05:06,139 --> 00:05:08,441
which is the paranormal,
I guess.
102
00:05:08,541 --> 00:05:10,393
That's weird.
103
00:05:10,394 --> 00:05:12,244
Do you see all of them?
104
00:05:12,345 --> 00:05:14,213
- Yeah, I see them flyin' around you.
- They're like...
105
00:05:14,313 --> 00:05:17,182
there's flies all around me--
I've never seen flies in here,
106
00:05:17,282 --> 00:05:19,284
and they're all
just flying around me,
107
00:05:19,384 --> 00:05:21,821
and there's a bunch of them.
108
00:05:21,921 --> 00:05:24,723
Isn't that, there.
109
00:05:24,823 --> 00:05:26,525
There it is, yeah.
110
00:05:26,626 --> 00:05:28,960
It keeps buzzing around me,
and-- and I think
111
00:05:29,061 --> 00:05:31,931
we all know
the manifestation of flies
112
00:05:32,031 --> 00:05:34,700
in demonic presences.
113
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,403
Um... I'm not concluding anything,
however, it is very interesting.
114
00:05:38,504 --> 00:05:41,774
- And you're asking me questions, and maybe it's...
- Yeah.
115
00:05:46,311 --> 00:05:48,212
So I'm a little nervous.
116
00:05:48,313 --> 00:05:51,150
Dolls is one of my phobia.
117
00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:58,191
But just having a doll over
there with a sack over its face
118
00:05:58,291 --> 00:06:01,027
is probably one of the more
unnerving things that I've seen.
119
00:06:01,127 --> 00:06:02,595
Um...
120
00:06:02,596 --> 00:06:04,063
It could get more unnerving.
121
00:06:04,163 --> 00:06:07,367
If you choose to have
a look at her.
122
00:06:11,069 --> 00:06:13,205
Sounds like a challenge.
123
00:06:13,305 --> 00:06:15,474
Could be.
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00:06:15,574 --> 00:06:17,844
Before I see Peggy for myself,
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00:06:17,944 --> 00:06:20,079
I need to know
the risks involved.
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00:06:22,982 --> 00:06:25,017
Katrin Reedik is here to tell me
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00:06:25,117 --> 00:06:27,453
about the heart attack
that almost took her life.
128
00:06:29,555 --> 00:06:31,657
She traveled all the way
to Las Vegas,
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00:06:31,757 --> 00:06:35,160
hoping I can provide some help
to give her closure.
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00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:38,796
Can you tell me,
exactly what happened
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00:06:38,897 --> 00:06:42,200
with-- with you and this Peggy?
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00:06:44,003 --> 00:06:46,906
My heart was racing like
a running racing horse,
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00:06:47,006 --> 00:06:50,208
and I didn't feel good.
134
00:06:51,911 --> 00:06:54,346
How close in proximity
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00:06:54,446 --> 00:06:58,283
to when you saw
this video of Peggy
136
00:06:58,383 --> 00:07:01,385
did you have the heart attack?
137
00:07:01,486 --> 00:07:03,789
Just minutes.
138
00:07:03,889 --> 00:07:05,524
- Just minutes.
- Within minutes?
139
00:07:05,624 --> 00:07:07,092
Yeah, within minutes.
140
00:07:07,192 --> 00:07:09,895
It was so strange.
141
00:07:09,995 --> 00:07:12,732
I went to hospital,
and they confirmed
142
00:07:12,832 --> 00:07:16,534
that there was changes
in my heart.
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00:07:16,635 --> 00:07:18,871
Before the Peggy video,
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00:07:18,971 --> 00:07:21,240
I didn't have any health issues.
145
00:07:23,376 --> 00:07:26,145
And then my GP confirmed
it was heart attack,
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00:07:26,245 --> 00:07:29,181
and I'm still shaking.
147
00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:32,984
Every time I'm speaking
about this, I'm shaking,
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00:07:33,085 --> 00:07:35,688
and I don't feel good.
149
00:07:35,788 --> 00:07:38,590
I can't see any pictures
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00:07:38,690 --> 00:07:41,360
about Peggy or any videos,
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00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:45,130
because I feel I'm going mad
after this.
152
00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:48,134
I have two children
that I need to raise,
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00:07:48,234 --> 00:07:50,469
and they have nobody.
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Sorry.
155
00:07:53,172 --> 00:07:55,208
It's all right.
156
00:07:57,643 --> 00:07:59,512
It's okay.
157
00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:07,920
This has been hard?
158
00:08:09,755 --> 00:08:12,525
It's hard, really hard.
159
00:08:15,328 --> 00:08:17,695
It's hard to explain
to my children
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00:08:17,796 --> 00:08:19,965
what's happening to their mom.
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00:08:20,065 --> 00:08:23,735
Why she's in the hospital,
or what she's really feeling right now.
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00:08:23,835 --> 00:08:25,086
It's hard.
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00:08:25,087 --> 00:08:26,337
Mmhm.
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00:08:26,438 --> 00:08:29,274
They don't understand--
they're too young for this,
165
00:08:29,374 --> 00:08:32,745
but they know that something
is happening to their mom.
166
00:08:35,813 --> 00:08:37,399
Sorry.
167
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,985
It's okay.
168
00:08:42,787 --> 00:08:45,658
But... are you gonna be okay?
169
00:08:45,758 --> 00:08:48,260
Yeah.
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00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,963
I hope.
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00:08:51,063 --> 00:08:53,532
Do you think that...
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00:08:53,632 --> 00:08:56,101
that this doll had something
to do with it?
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00:08:56,201 --> 00:08:58,471
I don't think the doll,
174
00:08:58,571 --> 00:09:00,406
but what's inside it.
175
00:09:03,275 --> 00:09:05,478
You know, at the beginning,
176
00:09:05,578 --> 00:09:08,214
I was going to ask you
177
00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:11,016
to bring Peggy
and all that, but...
178
00:09:13,018 --> 00:09:14,653
- No, no.
- No, I'm not going to.
179
00:09:14,754 --> 00:09:16,622
- No.
- I'm not going to, okay?
180
00:09:18,624 --> 00:09:20,626
- Why don't you get up and take...
- Zak.
181
00:09:20,726 --> 00:09:22,728
Okay, something is
going on in nerve center.
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00:09:34,306 --> 00:09:37,343
I am talking to Jayne
Harris, owner of Peggy the Doll,
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00:09:37,443 --> 00:09:39,611
who is allegedly
responsible for causing
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00:09:39,712 --> 00:09:42,848
serious health problems
all over the world.
185
00:09:42,948 --> 00:09:46,050
So since so many people online
186
00:09:46,151 --> 00:09:49,354
have had these getting sick
187
00:09:49,455 --> 00:09:52,391
and whatnot, I feel like
I have a liability,
188
00:09:52,491 --> 00:09:55,327
like I need to issue
a liability to the camera.
189
00:09:55,427 --> 00:09:59,198
What would happen if we take
the sack off of Peggy's head
190
00:09:59,298 --> 00:10:02,868
and show her face
to our audience
191
00:10:02,968 --> 00:10:05,370
through the video cameras?
Is that...
192
00:10:05,470 --> 00:10:06,922
Why are you shaking
your head for?
193
00:10:06,923 --> 00:10:08,374
It could be interesting.
194
00:10:08,474 --> 00:10:09,875
It could be really interesting.
195
00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:11,276
It would be interesting.
196
00:10:11,376 --> 00:10:14,847
Okay, but... I don't want my
viewers to get sick or anything.
197
00:10:14,947 --> 00:10:16,949
I don't know
what to do right now.
198
00:10:17,049 --> 00:10:19,617
I think, with anything
paranormal,
199
00:10:19,718 --> 00:10:22,688
you... if you don't take
the plunge, you don't get
200
00:10:22,788 --> 00:10:25,057
the answers that maybe you want.
201
00:10:25,157 --> 00:10:27,226
Well, she's already been
listening to me, you know,
202
00:10:27,326 --> 00:10:29,661
so let's... let's do it.
203
00:10:29,761 --> 00:10:31,312
Why don't you get up and take...
204
00:10:31,313 --> 00:10:32,863
Zak... Zak.
205
00:10:32,964 --> 00:10:35,567
Okay, we have a red light
blinking up here right now.
206
00:10:35,667 --> 00:10:38,403
That means that something is
going on in nerve center.
207
00:10:38,503 --> 00:10:40,406
- Will you hold on, please?
- Yes, yeah.
208
00:11:00,992 --> 00:11:02,560
- Are you serious?
- Yeah.
209
00:11:05,531 --> 00:11:07,565
So...
210
00:11:07,666 --> 00:11:09,701
There are cameras
running throughout the museum
211
00:11:09,801 --> 00:11:13,372
at all times, and whenever
I'm conducting an interview,
212
00:11:13,472 --> 00:11:15,707
Billy is here
in the control room,
213
00:11:15,807 --> 00:11:18,177
monitoring these feeds.
214
00:11:18,277 --> 00:11:20,779
When Jayne and I are discussing
removing the sack
215
00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:22,381
from Peggy's head...
216
00:11:22,481 --> 00:11:25,283
I think, with anything
paranormal,
217
00:11:25,384 --> 00:11:27,085
if you don't take the plunge,
you don't get
218
00:11:27,185 --> 00:11:29,220
the answers that maybe you want.
219
00:11:29,321 --> 00:11:32,557
...the feed from the camera in
the ballroom cuts out suddenly
220
00:11:32,657 --> 00:11:35,928
when all the other cameras
continue working perfectly.
221
00:11:36,028 --> 00:11:39,998
I have to wonder if Peggy does
not want us to see her face.
222
00:11:40,098 --> 00:11:42,367
Is this a warning?
223
00:11:42,468 --> 00:11:46,104
If it is, I cannot change
my mind now.
224
00:11:47,606 --> 00:11:50,342
I need to know
what is under this sack.
225
00:11:51,744 --> 00:11:55,080
Everyone that's watching this
right now, um,
226
00:11:55,180 --> 00:11:57,915
Peggy's face is
about to be revealed.
227
00:11:58,016 --> 00:12:00,519
We will film her face,
228
00:12:00,619 --> 00:12:03,055
so you will see it.
229
00:12:03,155 --> 00:12:05,925
Warning to all our viewers,
Peggy the Doll's face
230
00:12:06,025 --> 00:12:08,961
is about to be revealed--
by viewing,
231
00:12:09,061 --> 00:12:11,396
you understand
the risks involved.
232
00:12:11,497 --> 00:12:13,332
Go ahead.
233
00:12:22,107 --> 00:12:24,175
Why don't we flip Peggy around
234
00:12:24,276 --> 00:12:26,777
so everyone can
look at her at home.
235
00:12:26,878 --> 00:12:28,163
You see her, Jay?
236
00:12:28,164 --> 00:12:29,448
Yeah.
237
00:12:29,548 --> 00:12:30,883
- You zoomed in on her?
- Yeah.
238
00:12:30,983 --> 00:12:32,435
She lookin' right at ya?
239
00:12:32,436 --> 00:12:33,886
Straight at me.
240
00:12:33,986 --> 00:12:36,688
So everyone at home...
241
00:12:36,788 --> 00:12:39,291
what are you feeling right now?
242
00:12:42,994 --> 00:12:46,065
Are you feeling anything at all
through your television screen?
243
00:12:46,165 --> 00:12:49,668
Any anxiety?
244
00:12:49,768 --> 00:12:53,506
This is really interactive.
245
00:12:53,606 --> 00:12:56,575
We've never really
had the viewers
246
00:12:56,675 --> 00:12:59,243
take part as much.
247
00:12:59,344 --> 00:13:01,947
At this moment,
I can feel something
248
00:13:02,047 --> 00:13:04,115
that wasn't there before.
249
00:13:04,215 --> 00:13:06,885
I don't want to be
anywhere near Peggy.
250
00:13:06,985 --> 00:13:10,655
The environment
definitely shifted
251
00:13:10,755 --> 00:13:13,525
when that came off of her face,
so... so why don't you go ahead
252
00:13:13,625 --> 00:13:15,527
- and take Peggy.
- Okay.
253
00:13:15,627 --> 00:13:17,997
- And I'll see you in a little bit, okay?
- Okay.
254
00:13:25,037 --> 00:13:27,540
Thank you.
255
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,275
I don't want to
be in this room anymore.
256
00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:33,078
I feel anxious and tense.
257
00:13:35,814 --> 00:13:39,318
Crazy-- very, very cool,
very, very awesome, you know?
258
00:13:39,418 --> 00:13:41,487
But, just gotta be
real cautious.
259
00:13:43,622 --> 00:13:46,058
While most of the crew
takes a break,
260
00:13:46,158 --> 00:13:48,761
Aaron notices that
something isn't right.
261
00:14:17,323 --> 00:14:19,358
I almost put my
hand through this window.
262
00:15:24,844 --> 00:15:27,047
Just wanted to
start punching everything.
263
00:15:27,147 --> 00:15:29,482
You know? It's weird.
264
00:15:30,783 --> 00:15:33,085
I mean, think about it,
if you were the doll,
265
00:15:33,186 --> 00:15:35,387
and you just got flown over and
you have a bag over your head
266
00:15:35,488 --> 00:15:37,557
and it came out, you'd be
confused, frustrated,
267
00:15:37,657 --> 00:15:40,060
a little pissed, and curious.
268
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,194
You probably-- you probably did
feel some sort of emotion
269
00:15:43,296 --> 00:15:44,397
of the doll, I mean...
270
00:15:44,398 --> 00:15:45,498
I felt it enter my body.
271
00:15:45,598 --> 00:15:47,283
You, in a way, made that happen.
272
00:15:47,284 --> 00:15:48,968
I felt it enter my body.
273
00:15:49,068 --> 00:15:50,970
- Enter your body?
- Mmhm.
274
00:15:51,070 --> 00:15:53,573
- You're the one who made the call and made it happen.
- Think about it, think about it.
275
00:15:53,673 --> 00:15:56,810
- The swarm of flies that are just around me.
- That was weird.
276
00:15:56,910 --> 00:15:58,411
That was weird.
277
00:15:58,511 --> 00:16:01,313
Then the feed to the camera
goes out,
278
00:16:01,413 --> 00:16:02,949
only in that room where she is.
279
00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:04,484
Yeah.
280
00:16:04,584 --> 00:16:07,954
- Then the anxiety, and I go **** bat-**** crazy.
- Yeah.
281
00:16:08,054 --> 00:16:10,991
All of a sudden, I come out
here, and I feel better.
282
00:16:14,193 --> 00:16:16,396
After this personal experience,
283
00:16:16,496 --> 00:16:18,631
I'm even more worried
about Katrin.
284
00:16:18,731 --> 00:16:21,266
Although it will be hard,
I believe it is necessary
285
00:16:21,367 --> 00:16:23,803
for her to confront Peggy
one last time,
286
00:16:23,903 --> 00:16:27,439
so I decide to enlist the help
of psychic, Patti Negri,
287
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:29,975
who has assisted
the "Ghost Adventures" crew
288
00:16:30,076 --> 00:16:32,211
on two previous investigations.
289
00:16:36,483 --> 00:16:39,018
He is taunting you.
290
00:16:39,117 --> 00:16:41,253
Are you okay, Patti?
291
00:16:43,089 --> 00:16:46,025
Something entered
that's malicious.
292
00:16:46,126 --> 00:16:49,127
I... interviewed
293
00:16:49,228 --> 00:16:51,531
a couple women from,
294
00:16:51,631 --> 00:16:52,666
the United Kingdom,
295
00:16:52,667 --> 00:16:53,700
Yeah.
296
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,803
and one of the ladies
297
00:16:56,903 --> 00:16:59,506
has a doll, okay.
298
00:16:59,606 --> 00:17:02,741
And I know that you do
a lot with dolls.
299
00:17:02,841 --> 00:17:04,877
- Yes.
- That's why I wanted to call you,
300
00:17:04,977 --> 00:17:07,247
because I need your help.
301
00:17:09,582 --> 00:17:11,918
I'm not gonna tell you
a whole lot about this.
302
00:17:15,054 --> 00:17:17,457
Another lady that is here
303
00:17:17,557 --> 00:17:20,893
was severely affected by
304
00:17:20,993 --> 00:17:23,396
just looking at the doll.
305
00:17:28,234 --> 00:17:30,903
She's never... been in
306
00:17:31,004 --> 00:17:33,106
the presence of the doll, okay?
307
00:17:33,206 --> 00:17:35,407
I need you to try and help,
308
00:17:35,507 --> 00:17:38,511
because she needs closure.
309
00:17:40,679 --> 00:17:43,115
Theo, can you send Katrin in?
310
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:47,387
I've also invited Jay Wasley,
an investigator of mine
311
00:17:47,487 --> 00:17:50,456
on "Ghost Adventures,"
to participate in this séance
312
00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:52,959
as a third party eyewitness.
313
00:17:53,059 --> 00:17:54,511
Hi.
314
00:17:54,512 --> 00:17:55,962
Hi, Katrin.
315
00:17:56,062 --> 00:17:57,831
Do you want to have a seat?
316
00:18:01,301 --> 00:18:03,269
Breathe.
317
00:18:03,369 --> 00:18:05,504
Slow, deep breaths.
318
00:18:19,318 --> 00:18:21,421
If at any time you want
to leave, leave, okay?
319
00:18:21,521 --> 00:18:23,189
I'm serious.
320
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:24,857
No, I want to do it for myself.
321
00:18:24,957 --> 00:18:26,676
Okay.
322
00:18:26,677 --> 00:18:28,394
Because... I know
she's controlling me,
323
00:18:28,495 --> 00:18:29,996
but she can't do it anymore.
324
00:18:29,997 --> 00:18:31,496
Okay.
325
00:18:31,597 --> 00:18:33,966
Okay, if everybody
wouldn't mind just taking hands.
326
00:18:34,066 --> 00:18:36,603
Um, left palm up,
right palm down.
327
00:18:36,703 --> 00:18:38,405
Yeah.
328
00:18:42,474 --> 00:18:45,744
I just want to call a circle of
protection within this space,
329
00:18:45,844 --> 00:18:49,014
a center of light
within this space
330
00:18:49,114 --> 00:18:53,452
as we slowly raise the veil
between the worlds.
331
00:18:53,552 --> 00:18:56,455
Can Peggy manifest physically?
332
00:18:58,757 --> 00:19:00,593
She says she is.
333
00:19:00,693 --> 00:19:02,761
Does anyone notice that
the candles, every now and then,
334
00:19:02,861 --> 00:19:04,763
they just go crazy
as if they're about to go out.
335
00:19:04,863 --> 00:19:06,831
- That one, that tall one.
- Mmhm, yeah.
336
00:19:06,932 --> 00:19:09,535
- Look at it-- it goes from one to the other.
- It's like a hand over the top.
337
00:19:09,635 --> 00:19:11,170
There's no breezes in here.
338
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:13,572
- What's weird, though,
is if you look at these, - Mmhm.
339
00:19:13,672 --> 00:19:17,209
- they don't do that, and they're the same candles.
- Yeah.
340
00:19:17,309 --> 00:19:18,611
But over there, next to her,
341
00:19:18,612 --> 00:19:19,912
By her.
342
00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:23,581
they dance from one
to the other.
343
00:19:23,683 --> 00:19:25,217
See that?
344
00:19:25,317 --> 00:19:28,720
This entity is a bit
of a trickster.
345
00:19:28,820 --> 00:19:31,023
Is that the
typewriter I keep hearing?
346
00:19:31,123 --> 00:19:32,725
It's the typewriter
I keep hearing, yeah.
347
00:19:32,825 --> 00:19:34,477
It's like,
it's typewriter sounds.
348
00:19:34,478 --> 00:19:36,128
Yeah, what is it...
349
00:19:36,228 --> 00:19:37,696
You hear like a
350
00:19:39,264 --> 00:19:41,567
From the moment
I first ask the spirit
351
00:19:41,667 --> 00:19:43,702
within Peggy
to reach out to us...
352
00:19:43,802 --> 00:19:45,602
Can Peggy manifest physically?
353
00:19:45,637 --> 00:19:47,840
...there has been a flurry
of activity,
354
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:49,608
from the candles...
355
00:19:49,708 --> 00:19:51,210
Look at it, it goes
from one to the other.
356
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:53,078
...to audible anomalies.
357
00:19:53,178 --> 00:19:55,247
This entity...
358
00:19:55,347 --> 00:19:57,683
This entity...
359
00:19:57,783 --> 00:20:01,254
Some kind of intelligent
being is definitely here with us.
360
00:20:04,323 --> 00:20:06,459
Are you-- are you okay?
361
00:20:08,060 --> 00:20:11,330
It's okay-- a lot
of energy flying around.
362
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:14,334
It makes people react in lots of
different ways, lots of different ways.
363
00:20:14,434 --> 00:20:16,769
Sorry.
364
00:20:16,869 --> 00:20:18,070
It's okay.
365
00:20:18,170 --> 00:20:21,273
It's obvious that the
energy in the room is having
366
00:20:21,373 --> 00:20:23,409
an effect on Katrin.
367
00:20:23,509 --> 00:20:25,577
If she is ever going to break
away from the hold
368
00:20:25,678 --> 00:20:29,201
that Peggy has on her life,
now is the time.
369
00:20:29,236 --> 00:20:32,409
She needs to confront
her fear alone.
370
00:20:32,444 --> 00:20:34,597
- Can we try something?
- Yeah.
371
00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:38,000
What would you feel
372
00:20:38,224 --> 00:20:42,422
if we all got up
and left you here with her?
373
00:20:48,801 --> 00:20:51,905
Can you come please?
I feel the same stabbing here.
374
00:21:00,902 --> 00:21:03,038
What would you feel
375
00:21:03,138 --> 00:21:05,473
if we all got up
and left you here
376
00:21:05,574 --> 00:21:07,176
with her?
377
00:21:10,712 --> 00:21:12,881
It's, I mean, it's up to you.
378
00:21:12,981 --> 00:21:15,750
I was just only gonna say if--
if we all left,
379
00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:18,286
then you can just...
380
00:21:20,889 --> 00:21:23,725
spend some time alone.
381
00:21:23,826 --> 00:21:25,127
Do you want to try it?
382
00:21:25,128 --> 00:21:26,428
Mmhm.
383
00:21:26,528 --> 00:21:28,430
Let's get up and see.
384
00:21:32,534 --> 00:21:34,369
You're okay.
385
00:21:53,254 --> 00:21:55,023
Crying? Or what?
386
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:05,600
- Do you think it's... the spirits are there in there?
- Yes.
387
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,202
Is that a bad thing?
388
00:22:18,313 --> 00:22:21,216
Katrin's fear has only
made Peggy more powerful.
389
00:22:23,318 --> 00:22:25,954
Whatever the horrible connection
between them is,
390
00:22:26,054 --> 00:22:28,490
we need to destroy it.
391
00:22:31,026 --> 00:22:32,761
You good?
392
00:22:32,861 --> 00:22:34,462
- Okay, okay.
- Can you come, please?
393
00:22:34,562 --> 00:22:36,197
Okay, you did really good.
394
00:22:36,297 --> 00:22:39,201
'Cause I feel
the same stabbing here.
395
00:22:39,301 --> 00:22:41,836
Yeah, but you're-- we're gonna
let go of that, okay.
396
00:22:41,936 --> 00:22:44,072
It grabbed onto you
so we can cut it.
397
00:22:44,172 --> 00:22:46,141
Can you see that? There you go.
398
00:22:48,610 --> 00:22:51,413
Only time will tell
if Katrin has truly escaped
399
00:22:51,513 --> 00:22:53,982
from Peggy's darkness.
400
00:23:09,764 --> 00:23:12,367
As I recover
from my encounter with Peggy,
401
00:23:12,467 --> 00:23:16,604
my mom and Aaron talk to
customers at the museum shop.
402
00:23:16,704 --> 00:23:19,139
This makes me think
you take pictures,
403
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,210
and you save 'em, and then
they're just gonna end up
404
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:24,846
at some antique shop, and then,
after that, it's gonna... you know?
405
00:23:24,946 --> 00:23:26,981
Like this one, you're right.
406
00:23:27,081 --> 00:23:28,166
Hi, Nancy.
407
00:23:28,167 --> 00:23:29,250
Hey, David!
408
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:32,153
- I told Zak about this when you guys were
down buying stuff, - You finally found it.
409
00:23:32,253 --> 00:23:34,355
and I brought you in to let you see it.
410
00:23:34,455 --> 00:23:36,323
- My God!
- My God, that is so crazy!
411
00:23:36,424 --> 00:23:37,709
You know, ooh, okay.
412
00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:38,994
Is that real?
413
00:23:39,094 --> 00:23:40,795
- This one's real.
- If you just wanna lay something on it.
414
00:23:40,895 --> 00:23:42,497
This is crazy.
415
00:23:42,597 --> 00:23:44,799
Wait,
is that a bone that you put bones on?
416
00:23:44,899 --> 00:23:46,533
Yeah, that's a human jawbone.
417
00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:47,802
Really, my...
418
00:23:47,803 --> 00:23:48,970
What the ****?
419
00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:51,273
This is amazing--
where did you get it?
420
00:23:51,373 --> 00:23:55,077
A friend of mine had it
in his coin shop for years,
421
00:23:55,177 --> 00:23:57,745
and it sat up on a shelf
that said "Former Shoplifter."
422
00:23:57,846 --> 00:24:00,215
That was great, that was great.
423
00:24:00,315 --> 00:24:02,617
- Probably was.
- And when he moved, he sold it to me.
424
00:24:02,717 --> 00:24:05,453
- What age is he, do we know?
- He's old-- he's got minerals growing in his teeth.
425
00:24:05,553 --> 00:24:07,189
My God.
426
00:24:07,289 --> 00:24:08,956
You're right.
427
00:24:09,057 --> 00:24:10,892
This-- he's an old skull.
428
00:24:10,992 --> 00:24:12,761
He's been preserved so well.
429
00:24:12,861 --> 00:24:15,030
God, you can hear
how the bone...
430
00:24:15,130 --> 00:24:17,199
We look like that, actually.
431
00:24:17,299 --> 00:24:19,334
I mean, you kinda look
like that right now, but...
432
00:24:19,434 --> 00:24:21,235
My God.
433
00:24:21,335 --> 00:24:24,506
But the last two owners after
they sold it didn't live a year.
434
00:24:26,841 --> 00:24:28,776
So whoever owns it dies?
435
00:24:28,877 --> 00:24:31,146
Well, if you get rid of it,
apparently.
436
00:24:31,246 --> 00:24:34,182
So I figure this one's probably
going to the grave with me.
437
00:24:34,282 --> 00:24:38,419
Well, we'd sure like
to display it.
438
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,872
We could probably do that.
439
00:24:39,873 --> 00:24:41,223
Yeah?
440
00:24:41,323 --> 00:24:42,858
- You think?
- Well, because, I mean, if you don't want to sell,
441
00:24:42,958 --> 00:24:44,358
we'll make sure
you can come back.
442
00:24:44,458 --> 00:24:46,595
You can come in and take it
whenever, it's one of those deals,
443
00:24:46,695 --> 00:24:48,763
- 'cause we'd love to have it.
- I don't even want to touch it, though.
444
00:24:48,863 --> 00:24:50,732
Touch it, it's okay.
445
00:24:50,832 --> 00:24:52,934
It's okay-- no, it's okay.
446
00:25:00,007 --> 00:25:01,909
Eight weeks
after this was filmed,
447
00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:04,613
David Steinke,
who was a friend of my mom's,
448
00:25:04,713 --> 00:25:06,047
passed away.
449
00:25:06,147 --> 00:25:09,251
The whereabouts of
the skull is unknown.
450
00:25:28,570 --> 00:25:30,606
I'm Mary Skinner from
the Tennessee State Museum
451
00:25:30,706 --> 00:25:34,208
in Nashville, Tennessee,
home of a very gruesome item
452
00:25:34,309 --> 00:25:37,846
I'm bringing to Zak Bagans.
453
00:25:37,946 --> 00:25:41,583
This is not so much an exhibit
as it is a part of a human being,
454
00:25:41,684 --> 00:25:44,586
a human being
that was the leader
455
00:25:45,755 --> 00:25:46,822
of hundreds of men
456
00:25:46,922 --> 00:25:50,759
that terrorized the Natchez
Trace in the Mississippi.
457
00:25:50,859 --> 00:25:52,628
This item has reportedly
458
00:25:52,728 --> 00:25:54,863
made some people sick
in the museum,
459
00:25:54,963 --> 00:25:57,599
scared many children,
460
00:25:57,699 --> 00:26:00,402
and I want to bring it
to Zak's attention.
461
00:26:00,502 --> 00:26:03,639
Hopefully, he can fill in some
answers about this mysterious outlaw.
462
00:26:09,712 --> 00:26:11,413
- Hello.
- Hello.
463
00:26:11,513 --> 00:26:13,881
Welcome, come on in.
464
00:26:13,983 --> 00:26:15,450
Whatever you have in your hand,
465
00:26:15,550 --> 00:26:17,286
please place it
on the podium there.
466
00:26:19,454 --> 00:26:21,156
Wow.
467
00:26:21,756 --> 00:26:23,624
Good things
come in small packages?
468
00:26:23,724 --> 00:26:25,159
You could say that.
469
00:26:25,260 --> 00:26:26,912
Is it inside this little coffin?
470
00:26:26,913 --> 00:26:28,563
Yes it is, yes.
471
00:26:28,663 --> 00:26:32,233
- I like surprises.
- Now if you touch it, you have to wear gloves.
472
00:26:32,334 --> 00:26:34,735
Ooh, I have to wear gloves
to touch it?
473
00:26:42,877 --> 00:26:44,446
Is that a...
474
00:26:44,546 --> 00:26:46,248
what am I looking at?
475
00:26:48,116 --> 00:26:51,819
This is a thumb
that belonged to once...
476
00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:52,971
It's a thumb.
477
00:26:52,972 --> 00:26:54,022
It's a thumb.
478
00:26:54,122 --> 00:26:57,558
This is a real human thumb?
479
00:26:57,658 --> 00:26:59,561
Yes.
480
00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:03,198
When he felt like they were
no longer of any use to him,
481
00:27:03,298 --> 00:27:04,766
then he murdered them.
482
00:27:17,545 --> 00:27:19,030
What in the heck?
483
00:27:19,031 --> 00:27:20,515
This is a thumb--
484
00:27:20,615 --> 00:27:23,951
This is a real...
human thumb?
485
00:27:24,551 --> 00:27:27,588
Yes, from a notorious outlaw,
486
00:27:27,688 --> 00:27:29,557
John Murrell.
487
00:27:32,059 --> 00:27:34,628
I believe Mark Twain was,
actually a fan of him.
488
00:27:34,728 --> 00:27:37,699
- He wrote about him in Life on the Mississippi.
- Exactly.
489
00:27:39,733 --> 00:27:42,736
He terrorized people
along the Mississippi.
490
00:27:45,139 --> 00:27:47,541
And there's people that still
believe that his treasure
491
00:27:47,641 --> 00:27:50,010
is buried in caves somewhere
on the Mississippi.
492
00:27:50,110 --> 00:27:52,012
Even today, people still search
493
00:27:52,112 --> 00:27:55,383
for the treasures in the caves,
but Mark Twain wrote about that.
494
00:27:55,483 --> 00:27:57,685
What are Jesse James
495
00:27:57,785 --> 00:28:00,521
and his half dozen
vulgar rascals
496
00:28:00,621 --> 00:28:04,191
compared with this stately
old-time criminal John Murrell
497
00:28:04,291 --> 00:28:07,227
with his sermons
and his majestic following
498
00:28:07,328 --> 00:28:10,764
of ten hundred men
sworn to do evil.
499
00:28:10,864 --> 00:28:14,268
We did an investigation
in Natchez, Mississippi, once.
500
00:28:16,637 --> 00:28:18,773
And I know that that was
his stomping grounds,
501
00:28:18,873 --> 00:28:20,942
the Natchez Trace,
the Devil's Punchbowl.
502
00:28:23,244 --> 00:28:26,347
And I know there's a lot of good stories
associated with him in that area.
503
00:28:26,447 --> 00:28:28,416
He was the son of
a Methodist minister,
504
00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:31,152
and that's how he got the idea
505
00:28:31,252 --> 00:28:34,053
to pull off these, um,
506
00:28:34,154 --> 00:28:36,691
robberies that he was
so famous for.
507
00:28:39,626 --> 00:28:42,497
He would go around
to communities
508
00:28:42,597 --> 00:28:44,764
up and down the Mississippi
River and the Natchez Trace
509
00:28:44,865 --> 00:28:48,402
and pretend to be
a traveling minister.
510
00:28:48,502 --> 00:28:51,639
While he was giving the sermon,
511
00:28:51,739 --> 00:28:55,075
his band of outlaws were out
stealing everybody's horses.
512
00:28:57,577 --> 00:29:01,181
I've always believed
that John Murrell,
513
00:29:01,282 --> 00:29:04,283
pardon the pun, has gotten
buried in history.
514
00:29:04,384 --> 00:29:06,787
He's not as notorious
as Billy the Kid
515
00:29:06,887 --> 00:29:08,522
or Jesse James
516
00:29:08,622 --> 00:29:12,159
Many newspaper articles
wrote about his crimes.
517
00:29:12,259 --> 00:29:14,394
He was a horse thief, a bandit,
518
00:29:14,494 --> 00:29:16,496
um, he was accused
of stealing slaves,
519
00:29:16,597 --> 00:29:19,567
and he was arrested
for stealing a slave.
520
00:29:19,667 --> 00:29:23,470
Some people believe
he would capture slaves,
521
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:25,606
and he would sell them
and resell them,
522
00:29:25,706 --> 00:29:28,476
and then, when he felt like
they were no longer
523
00:29:28,576 --> 00:29:31,012
of any use to him,
then he murdered them.
524
00:29:38,118 --> 00:29:41,388
After only a brief encounter
with John Murrell's thumb,
525
00:29:41,488 --> 00:29:44,692
Sara Harvey was overcome
with physical symptoms
526
00:29:44,792 --> 00:29:47,293
that lingered
long after exposure,
527
00:29:47,394 --> 00:29:49,463
leaving her feeling sick
and drained.
528
00:29:49,563 --> 00:29:52,700
Um, and I assume
you know what that is?
529
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,635
Yes.
530
00:29:54,636 --> 00:29:55,551
You do.
531
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:57,972
Um, does it make you
uncomfortable
532
00:29:58,072 --> 00:30:00,007
- sitting next to it?
- Yes.
533
00:30:00,108 --> 00:30:01,609
It does?
534
00:30:01,709 --> 00:30:04,412
It definitely left a mark.
535
00:30:04,512 --> 00:30:05,797
It was quite memorable.
536
00:30:05,798 --> 00:30:07,081
Tell me exactly what happened.
537
00:30:07,181 --> 00:30:09,683
I could tell where it was
pretty much without anybody
538
00:30:09,783 --> 00:30:11,718
having to tell me,
I was just following
539
00:30:11,819 --> 00:30:14,389
the sense of dread
as it got larger.
540
00:30:14,489 --> 00:30:17,158
What did you start feeling?
541
00:30:17,258 --> 00:30:18,593
What was this dread?
542
00:30:18,594 --> 00:30:19,927
That creepy...
543
00:30:20,027 --> 00:30:21,479
vibe and aura coming off of it,
544
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:22,930
Right.
545
00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:24,198
that you could almost follow.
546
00:30:24,199 --> 00:30:25,366
Mmhm.
547
00:30:25,466 --> 00:30:27,702
And it was very tingling,
548
00:30:27,802 --> 00:30:29,870
a little disorienting.
549
00:30:29,971 --> 00:30:31,839
Were you getting, like,
headaches and stuff?
550
00:30:31,939 --> 00:30:34,942
Kind of a migraine-y, low hum,
551
00:30:35,042 --> 00:30:38,279
vertigo feeling, um,
552
00:30:38,379 --> 00:30:41,415
a feeling of not quite--
not quite knowing
553
00:30:41,515 --> 00:30:43,218
where all your extremities are.
554
00:30:43,318 --> 00:30:45,186
Your feet feel kinda fuzzy
and far away,
555
00:30:45,286 --> 00:30:48,089
and your fingertips,
little pins and needles.
556
00:30:48,189 --> 00:30:51,526
Is he getting gratification
still in the afterlife
557
00:30:51,626 --> 00:30:55,363
by his thumb giving people
like you these reactions?
558
00:30:55,463 --> 00:30:57,966
- The heebie-jeebies?
- Scaring people, making them in fear?
559
00:30:58,066 --> 00:31:00,501
Is he thriving off of this?
560
00:31:00,601 --> 00:31:03,237
Probably--
he is not a nice person.
561
00:31:03,337 --> 00:31:07,242
He was not a-- um,
a good-hearted person in life.
562
00:31:07,342 --> 00:31:10,110
One of the theories
that John Murrell's spirit
563
00:31:10,211 --> 00:31:13,381
is attached to his thumb
is because pieces of him
564
00:31:13,481 --> 00:31:17,251
are literally scattered about,
but this is not the only piece.
565
00:31:17,351 --> 00:31:20,522
Is it true that John Murrell
was also said
566
00:31:20,622 --> 00:31:23,924
to have been decapitated,
and they can't find his head?
567
00:31:24,024 --> 00:31:26,226
That's one of the stories.
568
00:31:26,327 --> 00:31:28,462
He died of a lung disease,
didn't he, or something?
569
00:31:28,563 --> 00:31:29,931
- Tuberculosis.
- Tuberculosis.
570
00:31:30,031 --> 00:31:32,533
And because he was such
a notorious person at the time,
571
00:31:32,633 --> 00:31:36,504
- his body was sent to the
Nashville Medical College, - Mmhm.
572
00:31:36,604 --> 00:31:39,741
and they mummified the body
and put it on display
573
00:31:39,841 --> 00:31:43,011
with his arm extended
574
00:31:43,111 --> 00:31:45,480
as he was going
to shake people's hand.
575
00:31:45,580 --> 00:31:47,880
His body was sent
576
00:31:47,982 --> 00:31:49,000
to the medical college?
577
00:31:49,001 --> 00:31:50,017
Yes.
578
00:31:50,117 --> 00:31:52,887
- At that point, did he still have his thumb and head?
- Yes.
579
00:31:52,987 --> 00:31:54,422
He did.
580
00:31:54,423 --> 00:31:55,857
But the thumb was severed
581
00:31:55,957 --> 00:31:59,327
and sent
to the Historical Society.
582
00:31:59,427 --> 00:32:02,964
- So you have documentation that the thumb was severed.
- Yes.
583
00:32:03,064 --> 00:32:04,833
- We have a letter
- A letter.
584
00:32:04,933 --> 00:32:07,234
from somebody that states
that in the letter, our files.
585
00:32:07,335 --> 00:32:09,637
But this thumb has been
in your possession,
586
00:32:09,738 --> 00:32:11,772
Tennessee Historical Society,
for how long?
587
00:32:11,872 --> 00:32:15,009
Um, since the early 1800s.
588
00:32:15,109 --> 00:32:17,345
So that's his thumb!
589
00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:22,884
I am familiar with some of
John Murrell's ghost stories,
590
00:32:22,984 --> 00:32:26,754
and there are reports that many
people have seen his ghost,
591
00:32:26,854 --> 00:32:29,056
his full apparition,
in the Devil's Punchbowl
592
00:32:29,156 --> 00:32:31,692
in the Natchez Trace area,
593
00:32:31,792 --> 00:32:34,562
and being as John Murrell was,
594
00:32:34,662 --> 00:32:36,865
in his life, an evil man,
595
00:32:39,266 --> 00:32:42,770
if it's true that his head is
also missing from his body,
596
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:45,406
I imagine that,
in the afterlife,
597
00:32:45,506 --> 00:32:48,376
he would be even more vicious
that his body parts
598
00:32:48,476 --> 00:32:51,312
are all over the place.
599
00:32:51,412 --> 00:32:53,547
Do I get to touch it?
600
00:32:53,648 --> 00:32:56,049
John, if this is your thumb,
601
00:32:56,150 --> 00:32:59,387
I'm gettin' ready to pick it up.
602
00:33:03,457 --> 00:33:05,026
- Do you approve?
- Yes.
603
00:33:05,126 --> 00:33:06,795
Okay.
604
00:33:13,801 --> 00:33:16,003
I gotta be careful
not to drop it, right?
605
00:33:16,103 --> 00:33:19,072
So is it, like...
my gosh.
606
00:33:21,275 --> 00:33:23,477
Gosh, so this is mummified,
right?
607
00:33:23,577 --> 00:33:25,213
Yes.
608
00:33:25,214 --> 00:33:26,848
My gosh.
609
00:33:26,947 --> 00:33:29,049
I'm like...
610
00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:31,585
a little nervous right now.
611
00:33:31,685 --> 00:33:34,087
Not gonna lie.
612
00:33:34,188 --> 00:33:37,725
As I hold a piece
of this famous outlaw,
613
00:33:37,824 --> 00:33:40,227
I wonder if his spirit
is watching over me
614
00:33:40,328 --> 00:33:43,331
or if my direct contact
to his DNA
615
00:33:43,431 --> 00:33:47,001
will welcome a new attachment
to the Zak Bagans ghost family.
616
00:33:48,835 --> 00:33:50,937
Wow, that's incredible.
617
00:33:51,038 --> 00:33:54,175
Just to touch this.
618
00:33:54,275 --> 00:33:56,711
You imagine...
619
00:33:56,811 --> 00:34:00,381
how many times he held a gun
with this thumb
620
00:34:00,481 --> 00:34:03,251
or how many times he killed
someone with his gun
621
00:34:03,351 --> 00:34:05,119
or...
622
00:34:07,555 --> 00:34:11,392
John Murrell and his gang left
a trail of bodies in their wake.
623
00:34:11,492 --> 00:34:14,161
Now his descendent,
624
00:34:14,261 --> 00:34:16,998
Jamie Pistel, is here to tell us
625
00:34:17,098 --> 00:34:20,433
about her struggles with
her family's bloody legacy.
626
00:34:20,534 --> 00:34:23,571
Growing up, my father always
told me that I had some--
627
00:34:23,671 --> 00:34:26,640
lots of really good ancestors,
and then lots of ancestors
628
00:34:26,741 --> 00:34:30,177
that were not so good on this
particular one side of the family.
629
00:34:30,277 --> 00:34:34,248
Do you feel anything
in that respect?
630
00:34:34,348 --> 00:34:37,884
Do you feel dark energy
around it or anything like that?
631
00:34:37,985 --> 00:34:41,356
Um... it's really,
um, amazing
632
00:34:41,456 --> 00:34:44,458
that I do feel-- I mean, like,
I'm tearing up now.
633
00:34:44,558 --> 00:34:46,927
It's overwhelming to me, really.
634
00:34:47,027 --> 00:34:49,096
Why are you getting emotional?
635
00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:51,866
I don't know-- I don't know,
I don't have a lot of experience
636
00:34:51,966 --> 00:34:54,402
with this type of thing--
it's probably the energy,
637
00:34:54,502 --> 00:34:56,436
and just, um, the fact
638
00:34:56,537 --> 00:34:58,839
that, um, he did a lot of things
639
00:34:58,940 --> 00:35:01,175
that, you know--
I know you can't--
640
00:35:01,275 --> 00:35:03,311
I can't control
what happened in the past,
641
00:35:03,411 --> 00:35:06,180
but things that I'm not,
you know, proud of.
642
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,117
'Cause the museum, actually,
where his thumb is housed
643
00:35:10,217 --> 00:35:13,087
is walking distance
from where I work,
644
00:35:13,187 --> 00:35:15,589
I spend the majority of my time,
645
00:35:15,689 --> 00:35:17,692
um, and to just know
646
00:35:17,792 --> 00:35:20,728
that there's something
that is on display, um,
647
00:35:20,828 --> 00:35:23,331
is... is hard.
648
00:35:23,431 --> 00:35:26,167
So...
649
00:35:26,267 --> 00:35:29,270
Do you just not-- do you not
like being around this?
650
00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:31,538
Can you-- can you feel
651
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:32,740
things around it?
652
00:35:32,741 --> 00:35:33,841
Yeah, it's real--
653
00:35:33,941 --> 00:35:35,509
I'm just uncomfortable.
654
00:35:35,609 --> 00:35:39,547
I mean, I'm okay-- I mean, I'm
okay, but it's just heaviness.
655
00:35:39,647 --> 00:35:41,515
Mmhm.
656
00:35:41,615 --> 00:35:43,683
If you were to come into contact
657
00:35:43,784 --> 00:35:46,821
with the spirit of
your ancestor, John Murrell,
658
00:35:46,921 --> 00:35:50,256
and you could talk to him
and he could talk back,
659
00:35:50,357 --> 00:35:52,326
what would you ask him?
660
00:35:52,426 --> 00:35:54,361
Why?
661
00:35:54,461 --> 00:35:55,928
Why he did what he did,
662
00:35:56,029 --> 00:35:58,465
and what was so, um,
663
00:35:58,565 --> 00:36:02,136
appealing or enticing
that you felt that you had
664
00:36:02,236 --> 00:36:05,306
to, you know,
do the things that you did.
665
00:36:05,406 --> 00:36:08,942
We were planning on doing some
work around the thumb,
666
00:36:09,043 --> 00:36:12,113
- just to see what happens, we don't know,
- Yeah, yeah.
667
00:36:12,213 --> 00:36:14,348
but, you know, maybe his spirit
will come through,
668
00:36:14,449 --> 00:36:17,151
maybe he won't, but if he does
come through,
669
00:36:17,251 --> 00:36:19,787
I thought maybe that would be
a good opportunity
670
00:36:19,887 --> 00:36:21,822
for you to have some closure.
671
00:36:21,922 --> 00:36:23,958
- Would you like to do that?
- Yes.
672
00:36:24,765 --> 00:36:27,500
Jamie agrees to join us
as we attempt to communicate
673
00:36:27,601 --> 00:36:31,195
with the spirit of
her ancestor, John Murrell.
674
00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:32,821
Hi, Jamie.
675
00:36:32,856 --> 00:36:33,965
- Hi.
- How you doing?
676
00:36:34,107 --> 00:36:34,963
Good, thank you.
677
00:36:34,998 --> 00:36:36,069
Why don't you have a seat?
678
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:37,555
- Hi.
- Hey.
679
00:36:38,511 --> 00:36:41,381
We are using
this blood relative,
680
00:36:41,481 --> 00:36:43,617
along with Murrell's own thumb,
681
00:36:43,717 --> 00:36:46,520
as trigger objects
to provoke a response.
682
00:36:49,089 --> 00:36:52,125
During this, I want you
to ask questions.
683
00:36:52,226 --> 00:36:53,811
You are his ancestor,
684
00:36:53,812 --> 00:36:55,395
Mmhm.
685
00:36:55,495 --> 00:36:59,433
- and there was a lot of emotion,
and I think that we can use that - Mmhm.
686
00:36:59,533 --> 00:37:02,235
to help try to communicate.
687
00:37:02,335 --> 00:37:04,404
For this session,
we are using a device
688
00:37:04,504 --> 00:37:07,806
known as the Paranormal Puck,
which translates
689
00:37:07,907 --> 00:37:10,843
electromagnetic energy fields
into words,
690
00:37:10,944 --> 00:37:13,779
allowing spirits like
this murderous outlaw
691
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,349
to reach out to us
from the past.
692
00:37:16,449 --> 00:37:19,586
So I typed a question in,
it reads the energy around
693
00:37:19,686 --> 00:37:21,788
and selects a word.
694
00:37:21,888 --> 00:37:24,357
Before we can
even begin the session,
695
00:37:24,457 --> 00:37:27,794
while Billy is still testing out
the equipment,
696
00:37:27,894 --> 00:37:30,230
he receives what appears
to be a response
697
00:37:30,330 --> 00:37:33,165
from the spirit attached
to this human thumb.
698
00:37:33,266 --> 00:37:35,168
Whoa.
699
00:37:35,768 --> 00:37:38,304
Do you have a message for Jamie?
That's what I typed.
700
00:37:38,404 --> 00:37:41,106
It says cut.
701
00:37:41,206 --> 00:37:42,842
I'm gonna have you switch.
702
00:37:42,942 --> 00:37:44,643
I want you to see
this as he's doing it,
703
00:37:44,743 --> 00:37:47,045
'cause we're starting
to get-- that's--
704
00:37:47,146 --> 00:37:48,715
It's connected to you.
705
00:37:48,716 --> 00:37:50,283
Cut.
706
00:37:50,383 --> 00:37:52,818
Could that possibly mean
cut thumb?
707
00:37:52,918 --> 00:37:54,654
I don't know.
708
00:37:54,754 --> 00:37:57,489
- Ask another question, watch him type.
- Yeah, I'll type it.
709
00:37:57,590 --> 00:38:00,760
Um, you said "cut" --
what does that mean?
710
00:38:05,197 --> 00:38:07,632
Cave.
711
00:38:07,732 --> 00:38:10,969
There's people that still
believe that his treasure
712
00:38:11,069 --> 00:38:13,505
is buried in caves somewhere
on the Mississippi.
713
00:38:13,605 --> 00:38:15,541
What is hidden in the cave?
714
00:38:15,641 --> 00:38:17,843
Is there something hidden
in the cave?
715
00:38:20,145 --> 00:38:22,375
- Swim.
- Swim?
716
00:38:24,251 --> 00:38:27,187
At this moment, I don't yet
understand the significance
717
00:38:27,287 --> 00:38:29,456
of this response.
718
00:38:29,556 --> 00:38:31,591
Did you commit murder?
719
00:38:31,691 --> 00:38:34,494
Did you commit murder?
720
00:38:34,594 --> 00:38:36,095
Drowned.
721
00:38:36,195 --> 00:38:37,230
It said swim earlier.
722
00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:38,265
Yeah.
723
00:38:38,365 --> 00:38:40,233
We were unsure what this meant,
724
00:38:40,333 --> 00:38:42,535
so I send a crew
to visit the region
725
00:38:42,635 --> 00:38:44,571
where Murrell and his gang
726
00:38:44,671 --> 00:38:47,507
buried bodies
in unmarked graves.
727
00:38:47,607 --> 00:38:50,277
A man offers up a story
728
00:38:50,377 --> 00:38:52,879
with astonishing connections
to this evidence.
729
00:38:52,979 --> 00:38:55,482
I was coming
back from a conference
730
00:38:55,582 --> 00:38:57,917
in South Mississippi
with a friend of mine,
731
00:38:58,017 --> 00:39:00,987
and we looked down here
at the water,
732
00:39:01,087 --> 00:39:02,689
and we could see a guy
standing on the edge
733
00:39:02,789 --> 00:39:04,490
of the riverbank down there,
734
00:39:04,591 --> 00:39:06,625
and there was a couple
more guys in the water
735
00:39:06,727 --> 00:39:08,895
that had a body in between them.
736
00:39:08,995 --> 00:39:10,929
It was kinda foggy that morning,
737
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:13,366
and it was kinda rolling in
and out across the water,
738
00:39:13,466 --> 00:39:16,703
and we didn't know if they were
fishing a dead body out,
739
00:39:16,803 --> 00:39:19,239
you know, a floater, they'd found
a floater in the water, or what.
740
00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:23,443
And, we kinda hollered, you
know, "What are you guys doin'?"
741
00:39:23,543 --> 00:39:25,711
We hollered a few more times,
but they acted like
742
00:39:25,811 --> 00:39:27,514
we just didn't even exist.
743
00:39:28,982 --> 00:39:30,817
And the fog came rolling back
in on the water
744
00:39:30,917 --> 00:39:33,520
and just kinda covered them up,
and they just disappeared into the fog.
745
00:39:36,556 --> 00:39:38,358
I kinda looked at my friend,
and I said, "What the hell?"
746
00:39:38,458 --> 00:39:41,695
And, behind us,
we heard somebody go,
747
00:39:41,795 --> 00:39:43,930
"Not hell."
748
00:39:44,030 --> 00:39:45,498
And of course, we spun around,
it startled us,
749
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:47,167
all these dead leaves
and sticks and stuff,
750
00:39:47,267 --> 00:39:48,869
we didn't think anybody
could sneak up on us,
751
00:39:48,969 --> 00:39:51,838
but... then there was nobody
there-- there wasn't a soul there at all.
752
00:40:01,281 --> 00:40:03,250
Did you commit murder?
753
00:40:03,350 --> 00:40:05,051
Drowned.
754
00:40:05,151 --> 00:40:06,353
It said swim earlier.
755
00:40:06,354 --> 00:40:07,554
Yeah.
756
00:40:07,654 --> 00:40:08,739
Swim.
757
00:40:08,740 --> 00:40:09,823
Swim?
758
00:40:09,923 --> 00:40:11,992
Swim, drowned,
759
00:40:12,092 --> 00:40:15,528
and now these figures appear
on the riverbank.
760
00:40:15,629 --> 00:40:19,699
I can't help but make
the obvious connection
761
00:40:19,799 --> 00:40:22,435
between this eyewitness's
testimony
762
00:40:22,535 --> 00:40:25,939
in John Murrell's old stomping
grounds, the Devil's Punchbowl,
763
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:28,007
and our own evidence,
764
00:40:28,107 --> 00:40:30,009
which seems to confirm
that there is
765
00:40:30,110 --> 00:40:32,612
some kind of intelligent entity
766
00:40:32,712 --> 00:40:34,948
connected
to John Murrell's thumb.
57385
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