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1944, on the morning of June 6th.
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00:00:13,709 --> 00:00:17,834
German occupying forces in France
defend their Atlantic fortifications
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against the vastly superior strength
of the advancing Allies.
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In vain.
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In these bunkers
all the soldiers will die,
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buried in the rubble
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00:00:29,084 --> 00:00:31,542
that collapses all around
and on top of them.
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00:00:32,792 --> 00:00:35,209
My father wasn't one of them.
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Not any more.
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My father is still alive.
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You're still alive, Father.
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You learnt French
and France has always meant a lot to you.
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00:00:47,376 --> 00:00:51,001
Can you tell me a little bit
about what France means to you?
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00:00:56,959 --> 00:00:58,667
Yes, I like the country,
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the sea that almost surrounds France.
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And the French people.
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Their way of life.
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Their politeness.
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HERMANN, MY FATHER
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You also used to read French books.
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Pardon?
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You also used to read French books.
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Yes.
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What did you read?
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Guy de Maupassant, for example.
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"Mademoiselle de La Seiglière."
We read it at school too.
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00:02:04,126 --> 00:02:06,626
And Balzac...
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00:02:07,834 --> 00:02:10,376
I read some of his work.
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And Jules Verne.
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I can just about put them
on an equal footing.
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These were books you read as a boy?
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- Yes.
- You read Flaubert.
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Flaubert too.
Gustave Flaubert, yes.
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Yes, but now,
being here 45 years later,
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the last time I spoke French,
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00:02:38,709 --> 00:02:40,542
it is of course difficult
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00:02:40,667 --> 00:02:42,917
to remember it all again.
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00:02:43,042 --> 00:02:46,001
The older you get,
the worse your memory becomes.
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00:02:47,917 --> 00:02:52,126
And your memory becomes less...
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You forget individual words and then...
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00:02:59,126 --> 00:03:04,292
then it is of course difficult
to speak fluently.
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00:03:04,417 --> 00:03:06,917
It was also very difficult for you
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00:03:08,042 --> 00:03:10,376
to come back to France at all.
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Am I wrong about that?
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Memories of the war never fade.
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They always remain quite vivid.
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And then of course...
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00:03:31,459 --> 00:03:38,126
quite clearly
you have to show some reticence
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towards the people
you have hurt so much.
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My father.
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In 1940, you were a soldier in France.
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In 1944, you were in Greece or Russia.
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Weapons of death and destruction
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that rained down
in this attack on France.
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And finally for the French people,
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freedom.
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Freedom from the German occupiers.
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The Allies landed here.
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From here they advanced
towards the German border.
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The war went on for almost a year
after this devastating raid.
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The occupying forces came here
in June 1940, of course,
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and we were under Nazi occupation
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until the 6th June 1944.
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Was it hard
being under Nazi occupation?
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Yes, it was very hard
and above all oppressive.
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00:06:02,834 --> 00:06:08,417
We had to work
for the occupying forces
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and anyone who refused,
was deported to Germany.
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Sadly, many never returned.
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But you still honour this cemetery
which has lots of Germans in it.
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Yes.
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When soldiers are buried
after they die,
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you have to honour them.
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For the sake of future generations,
this page in history
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must teach them about peace
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and ensure
that they never experience war.
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And it has to be said
that the soldiers who were here
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weren't all Nazis.
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Of course.
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From the contact we've had,
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we found out that many of them
were forcibly enlisted
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00:07:02,584 --> 00:07:06,251
and they were obliged,
as we were,
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to put up with the Nazi regime.
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My father didn't join
the National Socialist Party.
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That's why he was forced
to become a soldier.
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So, as you say,
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it's up to future generations
to make sure they don't repeat...
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- such things.
- The errors.
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00:07:29,251 --> 00:07:33,917
I think the best thing
for future generations
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00:07:34,042 --> 00:07:37,292
is to get to know one another very well
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00:07:37,417 --> 00:07:40,209
and, as others have said,
to love one another.
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So why didn't you join the Party?
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00:07:50,876 --> 00:07:54,792
I was the son
of a primary school teacher.
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And it was common knowledge
that primary school teachers
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00:08:00,334 --> 00:08:02,876
were democratically-minded.
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And that was the case with us as well.
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Other primary school teachers
from neighbouring villages
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00:08:16,209 --> 00:08:20,917
met up with each other socially
every Saturday,
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at a different teacher's house
each time,
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and teachers were not exactly
the most stupid people.
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And therefore I had to admit
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that the comments they made there,
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against the Hitler regime and so on,
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gave me plenty of food for thought
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and for that reason
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I continually put off
joining the Party.
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Although I was put under pressure
from many sides,
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I became convinced,
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00:09:03,126 --> 00:09:07,292
from the conversations
of these teachers with each other,
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00:09:08,417 --> 00:09:18,251
that under Hitler's regime
we would end up at war again.
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And that's why
I didn't join the Party.
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00:09:26,667 --> 00:09:31,126
The consequence of this whole business
was of course that these teachers...
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that one teacher after another
was replaced.
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Including my father.
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His place was taken by a young man
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who was already trained
in Hitler's ideology.
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You were one of the first
to be called up.
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Yes.
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This German military equipment is still
left standing on the Normandy beaches
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to rust away.
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After 40 years.
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Inge?
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00:10:06,917 --> 00:10:09,501
Oh, Inge.
You're there. Good.
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00:10:09,626 --> 00:10:11,876
I'm phoning from this call box...
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00:10:13,501 --> 00:10:16,834
A lifelong love for this woman,
my mother.
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00:10:19,584 --> 00:10:24,001
A love of France whose border
you had to cross like this.
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As a soldier, as the occupier.
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00:10:27,376 --> 00:10:30,959
And witness what your fellow countrymen
created there.
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00:10:31,084 --> 00:10:33,376
A pile of rubble.
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00:10:33,501 --> 00:10:36,959
France, 1940.
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00:11:12,709 --> 00:11:15,667
Entering a country you love
like this.
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00:11:15,792 --> 00:11:20,334
On these vehicles, tanks, machines,
in this uniform.
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00:11:20,459 --> 00:11:23,042
France, 1940.
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00:11:47,917 --> 00:11:51,042
You say you never shot anyone.
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00:11:51,959 --> 00:11:53,834
That's what they all say.
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If nobody had fired their guns
there wouldn't have been this war.
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00:11:58,251 --> 00:12:00,542
Can you enter a country as a soldier
139
00:12:00,667 --> 00:12:04,292
on these tanks, these machines,
without firing your guns?
140
00:12:04,417 --> 00:12:07,917
You must also have been afraid
that you would be shot at
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00:12:08,042 --> 00:12:10,542
when you invade like this.
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00:12:10,667 --> 00:12:13,084
Forgetting Flaubert, Maupassant,
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00:12:13,209 --> 00:12:16,167
forgetting that you thought
you loved this country,
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and you go marching in like this.
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I look for your face here.
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00:12:22,167 --> 00:12:24,417
One of them must be you.
147
00:12:24,542 --> 00:12:26,876
No, you were in a truck
during the invasion,
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setting up lines of communication.
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00:12:29,459 --> 00:12:32,334
Trying as little as possible
to be an enemy.
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00:12:33,501 --> 00:12:38,001
But the others around you came here
as the enemy, and so you did too.
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00:13:40,626 --> 00:13:45,334
Did you find the place
where you were stationed in 1940?
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00:13:45,459 --> 00:13:49,251
I was here in the spring of 1940.
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00:13:49,376 --> 00:13:54,292
There were lots
of these little houses...
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00:13:54,417 --> 00:13:56,917
You tell Philippe Collin
what it was like.
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00:13:57,042 --> 00:13:59,251
It's easier than telling me.
156
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In that house.
Four or six in one house.
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00:14:03,126 --> 00:14:06,209
So these little wooden houses
were fishermen's huts?
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00:14:06,334 --> 00:14:09,709
Yes, perhaps. I don't know.
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00:14:09,834 --> 00:14:13,167
But on the other side of the dunes
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00:14:13,292 --> 00:14:16,084
was the exercise ground.
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00:14:16,209 --> 00:14:18,126
How did the day unfold?
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00:14:18,251 --> 00:14:24,376
What did you do all day
in Coutainville in 1940?
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00:14:24,501 --> 00:14:26,417
At five o'clock in the morning,
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we bathed in the sea
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and at seven o'clock
we had breakfast.
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00:14:39,917 --> 00:14:42,792
Half an hour later,
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00:14:42,917 --> 00:14:50,417
there were exercises
down there.
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00:14:50,542 --> 00:14:51,917
Yes.
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00:14:52,042 --> 00:14:55,167
And the corporal would be like this...
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"Attention!"
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00:15:01,417 --> 00:15:03,209
"Eyes left!"
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Eyes left.
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00:15:07,626 --> 00:15:10,042
No definite article.
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"Eyes right!"
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00:15:13,417 --> 00:15:16,417
"Eyes straight ahead!"
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Yes, and then...
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00:15:23,834 --> 00:15:27,209
...lots of running.
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And, "Lie down!"
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We got down like this
on the ground.
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00:15:34,542 --> 00:15:36,376
And, "Get up!"
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Et cetera, et cetera.
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Three hours non-stop.
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00:15:51,167 --> 00:15:52,209
Look.
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- In a room like this...
- Yes?
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00:16:02,042 --> 00:16:05,417
...there were six or eight soldiers.
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00:16:06,417 --> 00:16:13,251
- But they slept in bunk beds.
- One on top of the other.
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00:16:40,792 --> 00:16:43,959
At the time
you sent these postcards home.
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00:16:44,084 --> 00:16:47,626
French towns lay in ruins
after your invasion.
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00:16:48,376 --> 00:16:50,959
Well, if it doesn't affect
the Germans...
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00:16:51,084 --> 00:16:52,459
It did affect them.
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00:16:52,584 --> 00:16:55,209
As early as 1940. Fear.
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00:16:55,334 --> 00:17:02,126
These photos of Saint-Lô date
from around 1900 to 1920,
193
00:17:02,251 --> 00:17:07,292
but this is the town you knew
and the town I knew too.
194
00:17:07,417 --> 00:17:10,917
I was ten, or nine even.
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00:17:11,042 --> 00:17:15,376
And the houses no longer exist
196
00:17:15,501 --> 00:17:18,834
but the places,
or what we could see of them, existed.
197
00:17:19,501 --> 00:17:24,459
On the wall of this building here,
198
00:17:24,584 --> 00:17:27,584
I remember seeing, in 1940,
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00:17:27,709 --> 00:17:31,001
a black-and-white poster
200
00:17:31,126 --> 00:17:36,667
showing a German soldier
carrying a little boy in his arms
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00:17:36,792 --> 00:17:39,626
and handing him a jam sandwich.
202
00:17:39,751 --> 00:17:43,584
And written on the poster was:
"Trust the German soldiers."
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00:17:45,209 --> 00:17:47,792
In this street here,
204
00:17:48,917 --> 00:17:54,084
the parents of a school friend of mine
ran a newsagent's
205
00:17:55,126 --> 00:17:58,501
and I saw the newspaper there in 1941
206
00:17:58,626 --> 00:18:02,626
when the Germans invaded Russia.
207
00:18:02,751 --> 00:18:04,209
I remember it well.
208
00:18:05,792 --> 00:18:08,751
And you left soon afterwards.
209
00:18:10,167 --> 00:18:13,459
- You left Saint-LG in about 1941?
- Yes.
210
00:18:13,584 --> 00:18:16,709
This is the police station.
You might remember that.
211
00:18:18,876 --> 00:18:21,084
The town hall.
212
00:18:25,334 --> 00:18:30,709
The clothes date from around 1910
213
00:18:30,834 --> 00:18:35,459
but apart from that, nothing changed
between then and 1944.
214
00:18:35,584 --> 00:18:38,084
It still resembled the 19th century
in 1944.
215
00:18:38,209 --> 00:18:41,834
This is the Champ de Mars,
the post office.
216
00:18:41,959 --> 00:18:44,251
- What else is there?
- Ah, the post office?
217
00:18:44,376 --> 00:18:48,126
- Yes.
- The square in front of the post office.
218
00:18:48,251 --> 00:18:50,209
Yes, the Place du Champ de Mars.
219
00:18:50,334 --> 00:18:56,417
I received a telegram
220
00:18:56,542 --> 00:19:00,417
from my father-in-law,
221
00:19:00,542 --> 00:19:07,334
announcing the birth
of my daughter, Emma.
222
00:19:33,126 --> 00:19:36,334
Inge? Oh, good.
223
00:19:36,459 --> 00:19:38,334
Yes, so how are you?
224
00:19:38,459 --> 00:19:39,876
Very well, yes.
225
00:19:40,001 --> 00:19:42,167
It's so nice here.
You wouldn't believe it.
226
00:19:42,292 --> 00:19:43,792
Wonderful!
227
00:19:43,917 --> 00:19:45,834
OK, see you later!
228
00:19:50,959 --> 00:19:53,834
So the French flee
from their ruined homes
229
00:19:53,959 --> 00:19:57,042
at the time I was born, 1940.
230
00:20:07,417 --> 00:20:09,626
My parents were not murderers.
231
00:20:12,001 --> 00:20:14,334
But they couldn't stop the war either,
232
00:20:14,459 --> 00:20:16,084
which affected them
233
00:20:16,209 --> 00:20:18,167
again and again.
234
00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:32,709
One person alone couldn't stop it.
235
00:20:32,834 --> 00:20:35,001
Many wanted to stop it,
as you say.
236
00:20:36,584 --> 00:20:40,876
So could Hitler alone carry on with
the war against the wishes of so many?
237
00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:44,751
What am I meant to believe?
What can I believe?
238
00:20:45,542 --> 00:20:47,709
I'm your daughter.
239
00:21:32,751 --> 00:21:35,251
So, listeners,
240
00:21:35,376 --> 00:21:39,084
at this moment
you represent the nation abroad.
241
00:21:40,417 --> 00:21:43,626
And I'd like to put
ten questions to you,
242
00:21:43,751 --> 00:21:46,834
that you along with the German people
must answer
243
00:21:46,959 --> 00:21:49,667
before the whole world,
but especially our enemies
244
00:21:49,792 --> 00:21:55,126
who are also listening to us
on their radios right now.
245
00:21:55,251 --> 00:21:56,792
Is that what you want?
246
00:22:00,084 --> 00:22:01,959
The British say
247
00:22:02,084 --> 00:22:05,626
that the German people have lost
their faith in victory.
248
00:22:08,209 --> 00:22:09,709
I ask you:
249
00:22:09,834 --> 00:22:12,917
Do you want total war?
250
00:22:22,792 --> 00:22:25,167
If necessary, do you want it
251
00:22:25,292 --> 00:22:27,417
to be more total and extreme
252
00:22:27,542 --> 00:22:30,959
than we could ever imagine it
to be today?
253
00:22:35,917 --> 00:22:39,209
You wore such a uniform too.
254
00:22:39,334 --> 00:22:42,334
When they saw you in it
in occupied countries, they hated you,
255
00:22:42,459 --> 00:22:44,584
not you as a person -
they hated the material,
256
00:22:44,709 --> 00:22:48,209
the uniform, the insignia,
and you hid behind it,
257
00:22:48,334 --> 00:22:51,209
for those who Hitler's war
had conquered,
258
00:22:51,334 --> 00:22:55,042
which wasn't your war
and yet it was your war.
259
00:23:22,292 --> 00:23:24,042
I expect
260
00:23:24,167 --> 00:23:26,334
that the war will end in such a way
261
00:23:26,459 --> 00:23:29,584
that those who can still stand
on two legs
262
00:23:29,709 --> 00:23:32,584
will rob those who are lying
on the ground.
263
00:23:59,709 --> 00:24:03,001
Did you see the Germans arrive?
264
00:24:03,126 --> 00:24:06,459
The Germans? Yes.
I watched out of my kitchen window.
265
00:24:07,417 --> 00:24:12,501
I watched them pass.
There were endless convoys going past.
266
00:24:12,626 --> 00:24:14,709
They were going up to Cherbourg.
267
00:24:14,834 --> 00:24:18,417
That stayed with me.
It's unthinkable.
268
00:24:18,542 --> 00:24:22,834
I remember,
my father was a hunter
269
00:24:22,959 --> 00:24:27,917
and his hunting dog
was on the other side of the road.
270
00:24:28,042 --> 00:24:32,876
And I saw one of the Germans
leave his convoy
271
00:24:33,001 --> 00:24:36,334
to pick up the dog
and take it with him.
272
00:24:36,459 --> 00:24:40,334
My father was a hunter
and he really loved his dog.
273
00:24:40,459 --> 00:24:45,542
Naturally, he thought
things had got off to a bad start.
274
00:24:45,667 --> 00:24:47,667
My parents were farmers.
275
00:24:47,792 --> 00:24:50,834
We had quite a few cattle
276
00:24:50,959 --> 00:24:53,126
and when we came back,
we found none.
277
00:24:53,251 --> 00:24:56,084
Everything had disappeared.
278
00:25:00,251 --> 00:25:04,042
So my brother and I
had to find work after the war.
279
00:25:04,167 --> 00:25:08,792
There was nothing here for us,
so we each took up a profession.
280
00:25:08,917 --> 00:25:13,459
I became a mechanic
and my brother a pastry cook.
281
00:25:13,584 --> 00:25:19,584
I worked as a mechanic
for a number of years
282
00:25:20,584 --> 00:25:26,584
and then I became a sales rep.
283
00:25:26,709 --> 00:25:30,959
I spent my days
driving all over Normandy.
284
00:25:31,084 --> 00:25:35,917
And one day,
I was in a customer's attic.
285
00:25:36,042 --> 00:25:40,334
I was installing a television aerial
286
00:25:40,459 --> 00:25:42,501
and as I passed the wire
over the roof,
287
00:25:42,626 --> 00:25:45,251
I put my hand on a German rifle,
288
00:25:45,376 --> 00:25:46,792
a Mauser.
289
00:25:46,917 --> 00:25:50,917
It brought memories of the war
back to me.
290
00:25:52,751 --> 00:25:59,626
And after, that I collected
anything I found from World War II,
291
00:25:59,751 --> 00:26:02,542
piece by piece,
and I built these models.
292
00:26:03,334 --> 00:26:07,459
And I've ended up
with this museum
293
00:26:07,584 --> 00:26:11,042
with 121 models on display.
294
00:26:11,167 --> 00:26:15,834
So that's how
the collection came about.
295
00:26:23,584 --> 00:26:27,126
Bagnoles-de-l'Orne.
You were stationed here one winter.
296
00:26:37,834 --> 00:26:39,209
I've got my rifle, for example.
297
00:26:39,334 --> 00:26:41,417
Every one of us had a rifle.
298
00:26:41,542 --> 00:26:46,501
But with my rifle I never...
I never fired a single shot!
299
00:26:46,626 --> 00:26:49,626
Throughout the whole war.
300
00:27:17,251 --> 00:27:21,542
You walked through these autumn leaves
in your green uniforms,
301
00:27:22,334 --> 00:27:26,917
longing for leave,
your family, your home,
302
00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:32,334
and carried the war with you
deep into the innocent woods.
303
00:28:06,501 --> 00:28:08,417
Oh, there you are.
304
00:28:08,542 --> 00:28:11,042
Oh, how lovely it is
to hear your voice again.
305
00:28:11,167 --> 00:28:13,626
Yes, I've arrived here in Bagnoles.
306
00:28:15,084 --> 00:28:16,251
Yes, yes.
307
00:28:16,376 --> 00:28:18,584
Everything OK at home?
308
00:28:18,709 --> 00:28:20,834
Yes. Splendid!
309
00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:24,459
So I'll be with you again
in 10 to 14 days.
310
00:28:24,584 --> 00:28:26,709
Goodbye, see you then. Yes.
311
00:28:26,834 --> 00:28:28,584
Goodbye!
312
00:28:41,459 --> 00:28:43,709
How long were you away from Mum
at that time?
313
00:28:43,834 --> 00:28:45,959
6 1/4 years.
314
00:28:46,084 --> 00:28:48,751
And you had leave now and again,
didn't you?
315
00:28:48,876 --> 00:28:52,084
Yes, two weeks once a year.
316
00:28:53,126 --> 00:28:57,876
And the rest of the time you were afraid
you would never see your wife again?
317
00:28:58,001 --> 00:29:01,542
Yes, I was very afraid
before the Russian campaign,
318
00:29:01,667 --> 00:29:05,376
but I was posted just in time
319
00:29:06,209 --> 00:29:09,084
to Greece and then everything was OK.
320
00:29:10,709 --> 00:29:15,084
And then when you came back,
everything had changed terribly.
321
00:29:15,209 --> 00:29:17,209
Yes, it certainly had.
322
00:29:17,334 --> 00:29:19,667
You too?
323
00:29:19,792 --> 00:29:24,084
Yes, one is bound to be changed
by a time like that spent in the army.
324
00:29:25,667 --> 00:29:30,084
Tough military service
changes everyone.
325
00:29:32,917 --> 00:29:34,751
And your wife had changed too?
326
00:29:36,209 --> 00:29:40,834
Yes, I guess she was a bit depressed
after such a long time on her own.
327
00:29:40,959 --> 00:29:43,292
Until I...
328
00:29:44,959 --> 00:29:47,876
Until I was four,
I wasn't really aware of you at all,
329
00:29:48,001 --> 00:29:51,542
and then I only had a father...
because you were away a lot then too,
330
00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:55,959
I only had a father for a very short time.
331
00:29:56,084 --> 00:29:58,001
- Yes, yes.
- Brief moments.
332
00:29:58,126 --> 00:30:00,751
Unfortunately, that was the case.
333
00:30:00,876 --> 00:30:06,334
And therefore
I always really found it so difficult
334
00:30:06,459 --> 00:30:09,667
to imagine what sort of relationship
I could have with you.
335
00:30:09,792 --> 00:30:12,126
Yes, a proper family.
336
00:30:17,709 --> 00:30:20,334
You told me that the kitchen was here.
337
00:30:20,459 --> 00:30:22,417
Yes, the kitchen was here.
338
00:30:23,084 --> 00:30:27,542
Our field kitchen was here.
The big truck with the...
339
00:30:27,667 --> 00:30:30,292
The big truck was here.
340
00:30:30,417 --> 00:30:34,417
And at the back there was a stove
and a field kitchen on it.
341
00:30:35,084 --> 00:30:39,709
And that's where the soldiers got
their meals, the soldiers of my company.
342
00:30:39,834 --> 00:30:42,834
And they just sat all around,
or what was it like?
343
00:30:42,959 --> 00:30:46,959
No, they sat down wherever
they could find somewhere to sit.
344
00:30:47,084 --> 00:30:48,542
They sat down there.
345
00:30:48,667 --> 00:30:52,834
Otherwise, they took
their meals standing up.
346
00:30:52,959 --> 00:30:56,042
- Just standing up?
- Yes, out of their mess tins.
347
00:30:56,167 --> 00:30:57,876
- That's not nice either.
- No.
348
00:30:58,001 --> 00:31:03,042
And spoons and forks
were joined together with a hinge.
349
00:31:03,167 --> 00:31:05,917
Oh, yes, I know that.
350
00:31:07,126 --> 00:31:09,834
Everything was made of aluminium
and quite light.
351
00:31:11,376 --> 00:31:13,001
It was really...
352
00:31:13,917 --> 00:31:16,334
- ...not a very pleasant life.
- No.
353
00:31:17,376 --> 00:31:21,167
- When you think that...
- No, but you get used to it.
354
00:31:23,126 --> 00:31:24,626
The casino.
355
00:31:25,167 --> 00:31:28,501
A place for officers.
Forbidden for ordinary soldiers.
356
00:31:29,501 --> 00:31:32,251
At this time
you were an officer cadet.
357
00:31:32,376 --> 00:31:36,042
You organised supplies
because you spoke the best French.
358
00:31:37,251 --> 00:31:41,417
Wine, beer, champagne for the casino.
359
00:31:41,542 --> 00:31:43,292
Beer for the troops.
360
00:32:12,084 --> 00:32:13,709
Was there dancing here?
361
00:32:13,834 --> 00:32:16,792
Yes, but not very often.
362
00:32:16,917 --> 00:32:18,959
On Saturdays, if at all.
363
00:32:19,084 --> 00:32:21,084
Saturday night to Sunday morning.
364
00:32:22,417 --> 00:32:25,417
What sort of women were here?
Were they from France?
365
00:32:26,376 --> 00:32:27,792
I can't say,
366
00:32:27,917 --> 00:32:33,376
but they came in cars and...
367
00:32:34,917 --> 00:32:37,626
I don't know where they came from.
I can't say.
368
00:32:38,459 --> 00:32:40,209
You weren't here much?
369
00:32:40,334 --> 00:32:44,876
No, I was only here
370
00:32:45,001 --> 00:32:49,876
if there were any special matters
to deal with,
371
00:32:50,001 --> 00:32:51,292
when something happened.
372
00:32:51,417 --> 00:32:58,459
For example, when someone drunkenly
shot and smashed a chandelier,
373
00:32:58,584 --> 00:33:00,834
when they were celebrating a birthday.
374
00:33:00,959 --> 00:33:03,417
Show me this chandelier.
375
00:33:03,542 --> 00:33:07,251
Then I was ordered
to get it repaired.
376
00:33:07,376 --> 00:33:09,001
Everything has changed a lot here,
hasn't it?
377
00:33:09,126 --> 00:33:11,417
Yes, it has changed.
378
00:33:11,542 --> 00:33:14,251
These chairs and these tables?
379
00:33:14,376 --> 00:33:16,834
Yes, I think
they were different as well.
380
00:33:18,376 --> 00:33:20,042
But here...
381
00:33:20,876 --> 00:33:22,167
That's not the chandelier?
382
00:33:22,292 --> 00:33:25,709
These aren't the same chandeliers, no.
383
00:33:26,626 --> 00:33:29,417
They were...
It was different.
384
00:33:35,084 --> 00:33:37,251
Did they play roulette here as well?
385
00:33:38,959 --> 00:33:41,417
Yes, I believe so.
386
00:33:41,542 --> 00:33:43,167
But you were never in the room?
387
00:33:43,292 --> 00:33:45,667
No, I was never there.
388
00:33:50,126 --> 00:33:52,376
And over there was the hotel
you stayed in?
389
00:33:52,501 --> 00:33:54,876
That was the hotel, yes.
390
00:33:55,001 --> 00:33:57,167
Do you know which floor
and what kind of room?
391
00:33:57,292 --> 00:34:00,751
Yes, on the first floor,
third room on the left.
392
00:34:02,001 --> 00:34:05,542
- And now it's...
- ...closed.
393
00:34:32,417 --> 00:34:34,167
Yes, it was here.
394
00:34:36,292 --> 00:34:38,084
Here on the first floor.
395
00:34:39,251 --> 00:34:41,167
The third room.
396
00:34:51,084 --> 00:34:52,917
Have a look along here.
397
00:35:00,959 --> 00:35:03,126
Peter stayed in here. That's right.
398
00:35:04,751 --> 00:35:05,959
Yes.
399
00:35:06,709 --> 00:35:08,751
And Heinrich next door.
400
00:35:12,126 --> 00:35:13,751
All right.
401
00:35:18,251 --> 00:35:19,709
Oh, yes.
402
00:35:23,709 --> 00:35:25,334
Such a long time ago!
403
00:35:27,459 --> 00:35:29,251
Half a lifetime ago.
404
00:35:38,501 --> 00:35:40,126
Grand Hôtel Bagnoles.
405
00:35:40,251 --> 00:35:42,292
Hôtel Des Thermes.
406
00:35:42,417 --> 00:35:47,751
After the French army surrendered
it was handed over to you,
407
00:35:47,876 --> 00:35:49,542
the German occupiers.
408
00:36:34,334 --> 00:36:36,084
- Good day, sir.
- Good day.
409
00:36:36,209 --> 00:36:39,792
- Are you looking for something?
- Yes, yes, yes.
410
00:36:39,917 --> 00:36:42,626
We'll be more comfortable
talking inside.
411
00:36:42,751 --> 00:36:44,417
- Thank you.
- Come in.
412
00:36:52,709 --> 00:36:55,626
- Sit down.
- Thank you very much.
413
00:37:00,084 --> 00:37:03,959
My name is Hermann Sanders.
414
00:37:04,084 --> 00:37:07,334
I'm German, as you know.
415
00:37:07,459 --> 00:37:09,626
- I'm Mr Tertre.
- Yes.
416
00:37:09,751 --> 00:37:11,959
My name is Auguste Tertre.
417
00:37:12,084 --> 00:37:15,042
I was born round here
so I know it well,
418
00:37:15,167 --> 00:37:18,334
and the time when it happened.
419
00:37:18,459 --> 00:37:21,501
During the war
420
00:37:21,626 --> 00:37:25,334
I met a Mr Zolar.
421
00:37:25,459 --> 00:37:29,126
He was a gardener
here in Bagnoles-de-l'Orne.
422
00:37:29,251 --> 00:37:32,501
- He was at the Grand Hôtel.
- Yes.
423
00:37:32,626 --> 00:37:36,834
I was in his garden,
in his big garden.
424
00:37:36,959 --> 00:37:39,376
The big garden on the other side
of the casino.
425
00:37:39,501 --> 00:37:41,751
I like flowers.
426
00:37:41,876 --> 00:37:50,792
- And we got on very well together.
- You became friends?
427
00:37:50,917 --> 00:37:57,751
Did you watch him growing his plants
in the greenhouses?
428
00:37:58,417 --> 00:38:00,792
They left soon afterwards.
429
00:38:00,917 --> 00:38:03,917
- He left?
- They left.
430
00:38:04,042 --> 00:38:09,209
I don't know whether he died here.
I can't remember.
431
00:38:09,334 --> 00:38:14,667
But he was replaced in 1942.
432
00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:16,667
- As early as 1942?
- 1942.
433
00:38:16,792 --> 00:38:19,292
- He was replaced at the Grand Hôtel.
- Right.
434
00:38:22,376 --> 00:38:24,917
Why did Zolar have to go?
435
00:38:25,042 --> 00:38:27,584
Because he had been your friend?
436
00:38:28,251 --> 00:38:29,501
"What sort of times are these
437
00:38:29,626 --> 00:38:34,084
"in which a conversation about trees
is almost a crime,
438
00:38:34,209 --> 00:38:38,417
"because it implies silence
about so many atrocities?",
439
00:38:38,542 --> 00:38:40,334
said Brecht.
440
00:38:45,042 --> 00:38:49,001
I've never seen a tree
quite like that before.
441
00:38:49,126 --> 00:38:53,376
Come and see.
Look at all the branches.
442
00:38:53,501 --> 00:38:57,292
- The trunk and the branches.
- There's hardly any trunk.
443
00:38:57,417 --> 00:39:00,126
The branches start
one metre from the ground.
444
00:39:00,251 --> 00:39:03,417
All the branches start from here.
445
00:39:03,542 --> 00:39:06,626
You can see here.
It's exactly the same.
446
00:39:06,751 --> 00:39:08,876
- Ah, yes.
- All of them.
447
00:39:09,001 --> 00:39:11,667
- These are individual branches.
- How wonderful.
448
00:39:11,792 --> 00:39:13,501
It's not a central trunk.
449
00:39:13,626 --> 00:39:17,334
I've made enquiries
and there are two like this in France.
450
00:39:20,126 --> 00:39:23,126
You who loved the French,
spoke their language,
451
00:39:23,251 --> 00:39:26,751
what did you think
when they went past you like that?
452
00:39:26,876 --> 00:39:29,292
You didn't want to come back here.
453
00:39:29,959 --> 00:39:31,626
You were afraid of the streets
454
00:39:31,751 --> 00:39:34,584
because they were so full
of these memories.
455
00:39:35,751 --> 00:39:37,834
France, 1940.
456
00:39:37,959 --> 00:39:40,834
Germany, 1945.
457
00:39:40,959 --> 00:39:43,001
As if history could have a conscience.
458
00:39:43,126 --> 00:39:44,834
As if there could be revenge.
459
00:39:48,959 --> 00:39:52,584
And it is still easier to talk
about roses than about people.
460
00:39:52,709 --> 00:39:55,292
- Good day, madam.
- Good day, sir.
461
00:39:57,167 --> 00:39:59,001
- Come in.
- May I?
462
00:39:59,126 --> 00:40:04,251
- Yes.
- I see you have red roses.
463
00:40:04,376 --> 00:40:09,334
In my garden in Germany
464
00:40:09,459 --> 00:40:12,001
I have roses too.
465
00:40:12,126 --> 00:40:16,626
- You are German?
- Yes, I am German.
466
00:40:16,751 --> 00:40:23,292
I was here in Bagnoles
in 1940 and 1941.
467
00:40:23,417 --> 00:40:26,959
- Very good.
- For six months.
468
00:40:27,084 --> 00:40:28,292
But..
469
00:40:30,876 --> 00:40:34,834
I think I recognise you.
470
00:40:34,959 --> 00:40:39,042
- That's possible.
- Yes.
471
00:40:39,167 --> 00:40:42,417
- Did you have a laboratory?
- Yes.
472
00:40:42,542 --> 00:40:46,667
And a photography shop.
473
00:40:46,792 --> 00:40:48,334
Photography, perfumes.
474
00:40:48,459 --> 00:40:52,292
So you are Mrs...
475
00:40:53,292 --> 00:40:56,584
- Mrs Chef.
- I am Mrs Chef, yes.
476
00:40:56,709 --> 00:41:01,126
- We always called you that.
- Always Mrs Chef.
477
00:41:01,251 --> 00:41:05,417
- So you left Bagnoles for Russia.
- Yes, Russia.
478
00:41:05,542 --> 00:41:07,417
- In 1941.
- Yes, yes.
479
00:41:07,542 --> 00:41:09,751
- I went to Russia.
- You did.
480
00:41:09,876 --> 00:41:12,292
When you left for Russia
481
00:41:13,376 --> 00:41:16,917
some soldiers came to my shop
482
00:41:17,042 --> 00:41:22,376
to get their photographs
because they were leaving for Russia
483
00:41:22,501 --> 00:41:26,376
and they took lots of blankets
484
00:41:26,501 --> 00:41:29,209
because they were worried
about the cold.
485
00:41:30,001 --> 00:41:31,709
What did you do at the Grand Hôtel?
486
00:41:31,834 --> 00:41:36,417
What was your role?
Your daughter said you had a car.
487
00:41:36,542 --> 00:41:43,209
I had a car, a Buick,
488
00:41:43,334 --> 00:41:48,417
and I used a truck
489
00:41:49,501 --> 00:41:54,751
to buy beer and food.
490
00:41:54,876 --> 00:41:57,959
- Provisions.
- Yes.
491
00:41:58,084 --> 00:42:01,751
I'm trying to imagine you
as a German soldier
492
00:42:01,876 --> 00:42:04,167
with your uniform.
493
00:42:04,292 --> 00:42:07,709
- Did you wear a cap?
- Did you bring any photos?
494
00:42:07,834 --> 00:42:09,584
Did you bring a photo of that?
495
00:42:10,376 --> 00:42:15,792
- A lot of your fellow soldiers died.
- In Russia.
496
00:42:15,917 --> 00:42:18,709
- A lot of soldiers.
- A lot of soldiers, yes.
497
00:42:18,834 --> 00:42:21,626
In your regiment, the 39th?
498
00:42:21,751 --> 00:42:25,084
You were in the 39th regiment?
499
00:42:25,209 --> 00:42:27,459
- I don't know.
- I think you were.
500
00:42:27,584 --> 00:42:30,917
There were 500 soldiers with me.
501
00:42:31,042 --> 00:42:33,876
- That's right.
- One regiment.
502
00:42:35,417 --> 00:42:44,626
- There were between 400 and 500.
- 500 soldiers.
503
00:42:44,751 --> 00:42:49,792
- And when you came back from Russia?
- Three companies.
504
00:42:49,917 --> 00:42:52,834
And how many of you
came back from Russia?
505
00:42:52,959 --> 00:42:55,126
Only me.
506
00:42:55,251 --> 00:42:57,667
- Only you?
- And one other comrade.
507
00:42:57,792 --> 00:43:01,167
- Only two?
- From Thessaloniki to Berlin.
508
00:43:01,292 --> 00:43:04,751
- I see.
- You were lucky to get away.
509
00:43:04,876 --> 00:43:07,876
You were young.
How old were you then?
510
00:43:08,792 --> 00:43:12,626
I was 30.
511
00:43:12,751 --> 00:43:16,709
My husband was called up
512
00:43:17,751 --> 00:43:21,209
in June 1940.
513
00:43:21,334 --> 00:43:23,417
In June 1940?
514
00:43:23,542 --> 00:43:25,709
He was called up in June.
515
00:43:25,834 --> 00:43:29,501
He had already fought
in World War I.
516
00:43:30,709 --> 00:43:32,792
World War I?
517
00:43:32,917 --> 00:43:36,042
He left for the front in 1914,
at the age of 17.
518
00:43:37,417 --> 00:43:41,001
He died on the 11th June 1940.
519
00:43:42,917 --> 00:43:46,709
I had a car then.
520
00:43:47,709 --> 00:43:52,501
I went to the hospital
to see about burying my husband.
521
00:43:53,626 --> 00:43:58,334
And...there were military convoys,
522
00:43:58,459 --> 00:44:02,959
refugees on all sides.
I'd never seen anything quite like it.
523
00:44:03,084 --> 00:44:09,501
I don't know how I got through,
the roads were so busy.
524
00:44:09,626 --> 00:44:13,376
There were military trucks.
There were refugees.
525
00:44:13,501 --> 00:44:16,292
There were the poor children
who were lost.
526
00:44:17,917 --> 00:44:22,209
- I saw a little girl.
- They were all evacuated.
527
00:44:22,334 --> 00:44:25,334
This little girl was looking
for her mummy and daddy.
528
00:44:25,459 --> 00:44:29,209
I said to her, "What are you doing?
Where is your mummy and daddy?"
529
00:44:29,334 --> 00:44:31,876
"I don't know.
I want them. I want them!"
530
00:44:33,376 --> 00:44:36,876
That was the war for you.
531
00:44:38,667 --> 00:44:42,001
Of course I was on my own.
532
00:44:42,126 --> 00:44:45,334
With my daughter.
My daughter was only 11 then.
533
00:44:57,417 --> 00:45:00,251
This is what France looked like in 1940.
534
00:45:00,376 --> 00:45:03,626
Worse still, Russia in 1942.
535
00:45:04,584 --> 00:45:07,459
Every country you invaded
looked like that.
536
00:45:11,501 --> 00:45:15,209
A father, a child from a people
537
00:45:15,334 --> 00:45:18,834
that these countries
have since recognised as murderers.
538
00:45:20,251 --> 00:45:22,084
That's what we are.
539
00:45:48,959 --> 00:45:50,251
You say nothing.
540
00:45:50,376 --> 00:45:52,251
You don't want to speak.
541
00:45:52,376 --> 00:45:54,001
You want to forget.
542
00:45:54,126 --> 00:45:56,834
To grow old, be kind. To forgive.
543
00:45:58,001 --> 00:46:00,001
We are helpless.
544
00:46:05,501 --> 00:46:08,584
- Ah, hello.
- Hello.
545
00:46:08,709 --> 00:46:11,209
How are you?
Did you sleep well?
546
00:46:11,334 --> 00:46:14,459
Yes, I slept well, very well.
547
00:46:14,584 --> 00:46:17,251
- Yes, ten hours.
- Ten hours!
548
00:46:17,376 --> 00:46:20,334
That's a lot. Yes!
549
00:46:40,417 --> 00:46:44,751
The schoolchildren of Bagnoles
are going to recite a poem for you:
550
00:46:44,876 --> 00:46:47,292
"I Salute You, My France"
by Louis Aragon.
551
00:46:53,209 --> 00:46:54,834
"I salute you, my France."
552
00:46:54,959 --> 00:46:57,709
"I Salute You, My France,
with your soft grey eyes
553
00:46:57,834 --> 00:47:01,084
"However great my torment,
my love is undiminished
554
00:47:01,209 --> 00:47:04,209
"My France, my cause,
both old and new
555
00:47:04,334 --> 00:47:07,667
"Soil sewn with heroes,
sky full of sparrows
556
00:47:09,292 --> 00:47:12,376
"I salute you, my France,
where the winds have calmed
557
00:47:12,501 --> 00:47:15,501
"My France of forever,
whose geography
558
00:47:15,626 --> 00:47:18,751
"Opens up like a palm
in the sea breeze
559
00:47:18,876 --> 00:47:22,084
"So the sea birds
can alight safely
560
00:47:23,667 --> 00:47:26,167
"Home to both dove and eagle
561
00:47:26,292 --> 00:47:29,251
"inhabited by valour and song alike
562
00:47:29,376 --> 00:47:32,834
"I salute you, my France,
where the wheat and the rye
563
00:47:32,959 --> 00:47:35,834
"Ripen in the sunshine of diversity
564
00:47:37,042 --> 00:47:39,959
"I salute you, my France,
where the people are skilled
565
00:47:40,084 --> 00:47:42,959
"At jobs which brighten up our days
566
00:47:43,084 --> 00:47:45,751
"People will come from afar
to salute you in your city
567
00:47:45,876 --> 00:47:48,626
"My beloved Paris,
besieged in vain for three years
568
00:47:52,334 --> 00:47:55,876
"Now happy and strong again
and wearing, as a scarf
569
00:47:56,001 --> 00:47:59,334
"This rainbow as a sign
there will be no more thunder
570
00:47:59,459 --> 00:48:02,584
"This freedom
with which the silent harps quiver
571
00:48:02,709 --> 00:48:05,876
"My France from beyond the deluge,
I salute you"
572
00:48:06,001 --> 00:48:07,459
Louis Aragon.
573
00:48:19,501 --> 00:48:22,459
We will now list the dead.
574
00:48:22,584 --> 00:48:24,834
1914 to 1918.
575
00:48:24,959 --> 00:48:27,167
- Gigot.
- Died for France.
576
00:48:27,292 --> 00:48:29,209
- Legeay.
- Died for France.
577
00:48:29,334 --> 00:48:31,209
- Nugues.
- Died for France.
578
00:48:31,334 --> 00:48:33,334
- Vittecocq.
- Died for France.
579
00:48:33,459 --> 00:48:35,542
- Brancherie.
- Died for France.
580
00:48:35,667 --> 00:48:37,626
- Allard.
- Died for France.
581
00:48:37,751 --> 00:48:39,709
- Jardin.
- Died for France.
582
00:48:39,834 --> 00:48:41,959
- Vaugon.
- Died for France.
583
00:48:42,084 --> 00:48:44,501
- Chauvière.
- Died for France.
584
00:48:44,626 --> 00:48:47,167
1939 to 1945.
585
00:48:47,292 --> 00:48:49,542
- Tournelier.
- Died for France.
586
00:48:49,667 --> 00:48:52,376
1948 to 1949.
587
00:48:52,501 --> 00:48:54,376
- Brillant.
- Died for France.
588
00:48:54,501 --> 00:48:58,376
In their memory, we will now observe
a minute's silence.
589
00:50:41,876 --> 00:50:44,334
Ladies and gentlemen, friends.
590
00:50:45,501 --> 00:50:48,626
There are no words
moving enough
591
00:50:48,751 --> 00:50:52,042
to express how happy I am
to be among you today.
592
00:50:53,751 --> 00:50:57,251
I would like to thank the mayor
593
00:50:57,376 --> 00:51:01,167
and all those who have contributed
to the success of this day.
594
00:51:02,834 --> 00:51:05,709
My compliments, too,
to all the ladies
595
00:51:05,834 --> 00:51:09,167
who have embellished,
with their charm and their smiles,
596
00:51:09,292 --> 00:51:12,626
this most enjoyable day.
597
00:51:16,917 --> 00:51:21,584
I raise my glass to friendship,
598
00:51:21,709 --> 00:51:24,834
to the brotherhood of all
and to peace.
599
00:51:28,667 --> 00:51:29,792
Cheers.
600
00:51:34,042 --> 00:51:38,126
One of them was in the resistance
and a prisoner of war in Germany,
601
00:51:39,167 --> 00:51:42,209
the other was part
of the German occupation in France.
602
00:51:44,501 --> 00:51:46,376
That's me in civvies.
603
00:51:47,959 --> 00:51:58,209
Whenever I got a fortnight's leave,
604
00:51:58,334 --> 00:52:00,417
my uniform...
605
00:52:08,709 --> 00:52:13,084
This gentleman says he was working
at the Grand Hôtel when you were there.
606
00:52:13,209 --> 00:52:15,751
Oh, yes.
607
00:52:15,876 --> 00:52:19,459
- Perhaps you recognise him.
- We transported...
608
00:52:19,584 --> 00:52:21,209
- Food?
- Food.
609
00:52:21,334 --> 00:52:22,876
Yes, that was me.
610
00:52:23,001 --> 00:52:24,751
Yes!
611
00:52:27,417 --> 00:52:29,084
Full of life.
612
00:52:29,209 --> 00:52:33,834
And I bought the kitchens
at the Grand Hôtel.
613
00:52:33,959 --> 00:52:36,126
- Yes, yes.
- I live there now.
614
00:52:36,251 --> 00:52:38,751
- You live there?
- Yes.
615
00:52:41,126 --> 00:52:45,376
- My father is delighted to see you.
- This is the lady I told you about.
616
00:52:45,501 --> 00:52:47,501
- She still has her bar.
- We meet at last.
617
00:52:47,626 --> 00:52:51,334
I'm very happy
to see you again.
618
00:52:51,459 --> 00:52:53,792
Me too.
619
00:52:53,917 --> 00:52:57,042
- So you remember him fondly?
- Yes.
620
00:52:57,167 --> 00:53:00,376
- He wasn't a bad man?
- They were no bad men here.
621
00:53:00,501 --> 00:53:03,501
I've told her all about you.
622
00:53:04,417 --> 00:53:07,459
I'm still at the café.
623
00:53:07,584 --> 00:53:09,834
I'm still running my café.
624
00:53:16,501 --> 00:53:20,084
We'll come and visit you.
625
00:53:20,209 --> 00:53:23,209
- Tomorrow.
- I'll bring him in.
626
00:53:23,334 --> 00:53:26,709
- Will you be open tomorrow?
- Yes, yes. Just knock.
627
00:53:39,917 --> 00:53:43,167
- Cheers.
- Cheers.
628
00:53:46,376 --> 00:53:48,876
- Hello.
- Good evening.
629
00:53:49,001 --> 00:53:51,501
- Are you well?
- Yes.
630
00:53:51,626 --> 00:53:53,667
- How are you?
- Very well.
631
00:53:53,792 --> 00:53:55,834
- And you?
- Me too.
632
00:53:55,959 --> 00:53:58,167
- Will you have a drink with us?
- Yes.
633
00:54:12,417 --> 00:54:15,251
You departed from Bagnoles
on these tracks.
634
00:54:15,876 --> 00:54:18,251
On your way to Russia.
635
00:54:19,584 --> 00:54:21,626
You told me very little.
636
00:54:23,001 --> 00:54:24,501
I want to believe you.
637
00:54:25,709 --> 00:54:27,626
It is better for me.
638
00:54:29,376 --> 00:54:31,792
All the same,
I want to be able to love you.
45094
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