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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:08,675 --> 00:00:11,508 (thunderclap) 2 00:00:13,972 --> 00:00:15,883 - [Narrator's voice echoing] It was like a dream. 3 00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:19,303 A dream that had become fabulous reality. 4 00:00:20,645 --> 00:00:24,889 Here I am in America for the very first time in 1983, 5 00:00:24,899 --> 00:00:28,267 on a mission to get an interview with Patrick McGoohan 6 00:00:28,278 --> 00:00:32,237 about his groundbreaking television series, The Prisoner. 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,572 A dream, because the series had changed my life 8 00:00:34,617 --> 00:00:38,451 back in 1968 when it was first shown in Britain. 9 00:00:38,455 --> 00:00:43,165 A dream that you almost never get: to meet your heroes. 10 00:00:43,168 --> 00:00:45,660 A dream, because an infant Channel 4 Television 11 00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:49,379 in London had commissioned a documentary about its making. 12 00:00:49,382 --> 00:00:51,339 A dream, because I knew nothing about 13 00:00:51,342 --> 00:00:53,709 making television programmes. 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,260 With the help of a director, this would be my first. 15 00:00:58,266 --> 00:01:00,257 McGoohan had always declined to be interviewed 16 00:01:00,268 --> 00:01:03,056 about his masterwork, but for some reason, 17 00:01:03,063 --> 00:01:05,896 he'd responded positively to a two-page begging letter 18 00:01:05,899 --> 00:01:09,358 from me to consider talking about it... 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,145 On camera. 20 00:01:11,196 --> 00:01:14,029 This is the story of what happened on that trip. 21 00:01:14,032 --> 00:01:18,026 Archives have been raided, unseen interviews excavated; memories 22 00:01:18,036 --> 00:01:21,449 long since repressed, some for good reason, 23 00:01:21,498 --> 00:01:23,535 have finally escaped. 24 00:01:23,541 --> 00:01:26,624 35 years later, McGoohan's daughter Catherine 25 00:01:26,628 --> 00:01:27,663 has helped me to understand 26 00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:30,128 much of what I didn't realise back then. 27 00:01:30,173 --> 00:01:34,292 But like father like daughter, it pays to be guarded 28 00:01:34,302 --> 00:01:37,465 when talking to people who want information. 29 00:01:37,472 --> 00:01:39,213 Information, information... 30 00:01:39,224 --> 00:01:43,388 - I took my time to think about whether I should do this. 31 00:01:44,729 --> 00:01:49,348 Because as you know, he rarely gave interviews. 32 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:54,570 But what I feel, is what he couldn't say about himself, 33 00:01:56,574 --> 00:01:59,362 maybe I can say for him. 34 00:01:59,577 --> 00:02:03,286 So that's sort of where I'm at, 35 00:02:03,623 --> 00:02:05,239 and he deserves it. 36 00:02:05,583 --> 00:02:09,042 - [Number Six] I've resigned, 1 will not be pushed, filed, 37 00:02:09,045 --> 00:02:13,130 stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. 38 00:02:17,303 --> 00:02:19,419 - [Narrator] Santa Monica, California. 39 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:22,092 McGoohan had agreed to meet us on neutral ground: 40 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,590 The Huntley Hotel. 41 00:02:24,644 --> 00:02:26,555 I recognised the building immediately 42 00:02:26,563 --> 00:02:29,055 from the exterior elevator - 43 00:02:29,065 --> 00:02:31,022 a significant feature in John Boorman's 44 00:02:31,025 --> 00:02:33,392 gangster movie, Point Blank. 45 00:02:35,363 --> 00:02:38,947 The film's baddie lived here in the penthouse suite. 46 00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:42,318 In reality, this was, and still is, a bar. 47 00:02:42,328 --> 00:02:45,161 McGoohan's chosen rendezvous point. 48 00:02:45,165 --> 00:02:47,577 Not so blank, not so neutral. 49 00:02:48,459 --> 00:02:52,043 (clanging of prison doors) 50 00:02:53,173 --> 00:02:55,005 I imagined him arriving at the Huntley's 51 00:02:55,008 --> 00:02:58,876 underground carpark, determined, angry even, 52 00:02:58,887 --> 00:03:01,379 and with a list of demands written on a letter 53 00:03:01,389 --> 00:03:04,131 ready to be slammed on our table. 54 00:03:05,894 --> 00:03:07,851 (Village horn fanfare) 55 00:03:09,522 --> 00:03:11,433 Suddenly, he was there. 56 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:13,561 McGoohan did have demands. 57 00:03:13,735 --> 00:03:15,317 We must not interview certain people 58 00:03:15,361 --> 00:03:17,102 under any circumstances. 59 00:03:17,113 --> 00:03:19,195 We should definitely interview others. 60 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:22,066 Demands that we couldn't guarantee. 61 00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:24,443 We failed our first audition, but McGoohan 62 00:03:24,495 --> 00:03:27,203 did put us on callback... 63 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:28,618 and then he left. 64 00:03:31,002 --> 00:03:34,290 I already felt like a defeated Number Two 65 00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:35,958 trying to persuade McGoohan to tell us 66 00:03:35,965 --> 00:03:38,548 his version of the Prisoner story. 67 00:03:38,551 --> 00:03:41,293 Something that was very personal to him. 68 00:03:41,304 --> 00:03:44,296 I just didn't realise how personal. 69 00:03:44,307 --> 00:03:46,969 He wasn't going to simply cooperate with us. 70 00:03:46,976 --> 00:03:49,388 When had he ever done that? 71 00:03:49,562 --> 00:03:51,144 - [Number Two] Let's make a deal. 72 00:03:51,147 --> 00:03:53,434 You cooperate, tell us what we want to know. 73 00:03:53,524 --> 00:03:55,390 This can be a very nice place. 74 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:57,733 - [Number Six] I will not make any deals with you. 75 00:03:57,779 --> 00:04:01,022 I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, 76 00:04:01,032 --> 00:04:03,615 briefed, debriefed or numbered. 77 00:04:04,911 --> 00:04:06,401 My life is my own. 78 00:04:08,539 --> 00:04:11,406 - [Narrator] Was Number Six referring to his fictional life, 79 00:04:11,459 --> 00:04:14,417 or to the real life of his creator? 80 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:18,254 McGoohan's daughter Catherine thinks it's both. 81 00:04:18,299 --> 00:04:22,884 - When I revisited The Prisoner many years afterwards, 82 00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:27,928 I had missed a very important detail. 83 00:04:28,893 --> 00:04:33,012 And when I saw it in that opening episode, Arrival, 84 00:04:33,940 --> 00:04:38,309 I went, "Oh, my God." 85 00:04:39,737 --> 00:04:42,479 - The time of my birth is missing. 86 00:04:42,573 --> 00:04:44,985 - His personal birthdate. 87 00:04:46,077 --> 00:04:49,445 - 4:31 AM, 19th of March, 1928. 88 00:04:49,455 --> 00:04:51,992 I have nothing to say; is that clear? 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,162 - He was not playing a character. 90 00:04:54,168 --> 00:04:58,287 Oh, he was playing the character of Number Six. 91 00:04:58,339 --> 00:05:00,797 But that's 100 per cent personal. 92 00:05:03,428 --> 00:05:06,011 - [Narrator] In 1983, without the benefit of either 93 00:05:06,014 --> 00:05:08,597 the internet or YouTube, I wasn't to know 94 00:05:08,641 --> 00:05:10,803 that McGoohan had already spoken about The Prisoner 95 00:05:10,893 --> 00:05:13,385 on television in 1977. 96 00:05:14,897 --> 00:05:17,355 TV Ontario in Canada had successfully lured 97 00:05:17,358 --> 00:05:20,271 him into the studio, along with a small audience 98 00:05:20,278 --> 00:05:24,738 of students studying The Prisoner at university level. 99 00:05:24,741 --> 00:05:28,985 Asking the questions, someone called Warner Troyer. 100 00:05:29,037 --> 00:05:31,654 Answering them, angry Patrick. 101 00:05:32,665 --> 00:05:34,622 - We're run by the Pentagon. 102 00:05:34,625 --> 00:05:36,241 We're run by Madison Avenue, 103 00:05:36,252 --> 00:05:38,368 we're run by television, 104 00:05:38,379 --> 00:05:41,292 and as long as we accept those things, 105 00:05:41,299 --> 00:05:45,543 and don't revolt, we'll have to go along with the stream. 106 00:05:45,678 --> 00:05:47,544 I think it's going on every day, all around us. 107 00:05:47,555 --> 00:05:49,387 I had to sign in to get into this joint. 108 00:05:49,432 --> 00:05:50,012 - [Troyer] Mmhmm. 109 00:05:50,099 --> 00:05:51,134 - Downstairs, yeah. 110 00:05:51,184 --> 00:05:52,800 - [Troyer] Make you angry too? 111 00:05:52,935 --> 00:05:54,892 - Slightly, yes, yes. - (laughing) Right? 112 00:05:54,896 --> 00:05:57,263 - There are pass-keys, you know, "Let's go down to the basement” 113 00:05:57,315 --> 00:06:00,683 and all this, that's prisonership as far as I'm concerned, 114 00:06:00,818 --> 00:06:03,856 and that makes me mad, and that makes me rebel, 115 00:06:03,905 --> 00:06:05,566 and that's what The Prisoner was doing, 116 00:06:05,615 --> 00:06:07,856 was rebelling against that type of thing. 117 00:06:08,326 --> 00:06:10,237 (dramatic music) 118 00:06:10,244 --> 00:06:12,861 - [Narrator] Our next rendezvous was at Santa Monica Pier, 119 00:06:12,955 --> 00:06:14,992 to talk about how we might do our interview 120 00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:16,994 for British television. 121 00:06:20,004 --> 00:06:22,462 I thought McGoohan was just running us around town, 122 00:06:22,465 --> 00:06:24,797 trying to keep us off guard. 123 00:06:27,261 --> 00:06:29,252 Now I know the simple truth, 124 00:06:29,263 --> 00:06:31,004 thanks to Catherine. 125 00:06:31,015 --> 00:06:34,178 - This is a place that he often went to. 126 00:06:34,185 --> 00:06:37,223 He loved this view, he loved this area, 127 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:39,517 he would walk along here, 128 00:06:39,524 --> 00:06:44,018 and he would take in the sights, and he really 129 00:06:44,028 --> 00:06:45,689 enjoyed living here. 130 00:06:46,155 --> 00:06:48,897 (gentle music) 131 00:06:49,158 --> 00:06:51,115 - [Narrator] Was it the sand, the sea, 132 00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:52,985 or the sights on that day, that calmed 133 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:55,282 McGoohan's troubled mind? 134 00:06:55,331 --> 00:06:57,288 All I know was that he finally agreed 135 00:06:57,417 --> 00:06:59,374 to stop running, and start talking. 136 00:07:00,586 --> 00:07:03,078 To give us what we wanted. 137 00:07:03,089 --> 00:07:05,706 Information about The Prisoner. 138 00:07:05,716 --> 00:07:09,129 (haunting music) 139 00:07:09,178 --> 00:07:12,637 (maniacal laughter echoing) 140 00:07:13,558 --> 00:07:15,469 (Village horn fanfare) 141 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,722 - [Village Announcer] Good morning, good morning, good morning, 142 00:07:17,812 --> 00:07:20,474 and what a lovely day it is again. 143 00:07:20,523 --> 00:07:23,060 (soft jazz music) 144 00:07:23,109 --> 00:07:25,225 - [Narrator] It was a lovely morning that day. 145 00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:29,278 The big day; the day of the interview. 146 00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:32,616 This time, we rendezvoused in Laurel Canyon. 147 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:35,322 McGoohan arranged to meet us somewhere in these hills, 148 00:07:35,371 --> 00:07:38,534 exactly where, I don't remember now. 149 00:07:39,542 --> 00:07:42,034 He had access to an empty house, where we could shoot 150 00:07:42,044 --> 00:07:43,785 and not be disturbed. 151 00:07:44,755 --> 00:07:48,043 (music continues) 152 00:07:50,470 --> 00:07:52,928 I knew that he didn't really want to do this, 153 00:07:53,014 --> 00:07:55,631 but for some reason, he'd agreed. 154 00:07:58,144 --> 00:08:00,135 Looking back at the footage now, 155 00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:04,060 it's far more revealing than I remember. 156 00:08:04,066 --> 00:08:05,056 - [McGoohan] How many tapes have you got? 157 00:08:05,067 --> 00:08:06,057 Lot of tapes, aren't there? 158 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:08,272 So we can keep going as much as we want? 159 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:09,269 - [Narrator] Okay, I'm ready. (laughs) 160 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,566 - What, but-- Are you ready? 161 00:08:10,573 --> 00:08:11,608 Come on, then. 162 00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:12,572 (laughter) I'm the one that's scared. 163 00:08:12,617 --> 00:08:14,073 - [Narrator] Me too. 164 00:08:14,076 --> 00:08:15,487 - Well, come on then. 165 00:08:15,536 --> 00:08:17,322 Well, you're smiling a lot, that's all right. 166 00:08:17,371 --> 00:08:20,113 - [Narrator] Actually, can I just... 167 00:08:20,166 --> 00:08:21,952 - You can't see me yet, can you? 168 00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:26,165 Just sort of, see if it's possible to relax at all. 169 00:08:26,964 --> 00:08:29,376 Oh, well, I take a look, walk over from the fireplace, 170 00:08:29,383 --> 00:08:31,044 I look down there, there's the camera and I 171 00:08:31,093 --> 00:08:33,710 have a look at you all, and say: "All set?" 172 00:08:34,055 --> 00:08:34,886 All right. 173 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:38,761 Shoot. 174 00:08:38,768 --> 00:08:41,806 - [Narrator] I started by asking him about Lord Grade. 175 00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:43,219 - Lord Grade? 176 00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:44,312 Lew Grade? 177 00:08:44,357 --> 00:08:46,519 He was Lew then, before he was 178 00:08:46,609 --> 00:08:49,601 er... No. 179 00:08:50,655 --> 00:08:52,612 Start again, sorry. 180 00:08:52,657 --> 00:08:53,397 It's too cute. 181 00:08:53,491 --> 00:08:55,402 Too cute, don't like it. 182 00:08:55,618 --> 00:08:57,700 Once more, same way. 183 00:08:58,412 --> 00:08:59,868 - [Narrator] I didn't know what I could do 184 00:08:59,872 --> 00:09:02,910 to make the whole thing easier. 185 00:09:02,917 --> 00:09:06,501 - All right, let's, uh... 186 00:09:08,422 --> 00:09:09,708 Shoot. 187 00:09:09,715 --> 00:09:11,205 - [Narrator] I asked again about Lew Grade, 188 00:09:11,259 --> 00:09:14,297 but again, he didn't like his answer. 189 00:09:14,303 --> 00:09:15,509 - Let's start again. 190 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:17,550 Start again. 191 00:09:17,557 --> 00:09:18,547 - [Narrator] Okay, cut! 192 00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:19,468 Cut, Chuck! 193 00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:22,433 - Same way, right away, please. 194 00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:23,551 All right there, then... All set? 195 00:09:23,563 --> 00:09:26,180 - [Narrator] How could you tell Patrick McGoohan to relax? 196 00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:28,690 He didn't do relaxed. 197 00:09:28,693 --> 00:09:29,649 - (sighing) Shoot. 198 00:09:29,735 --> 00:09:32,272 - [Narrator] For a third time, Lord Grade. 199 00:09:32,655 --> 00:09:34,237 - Lord Grade. 200 00:09:34,282 --> 00:09:36,819 He was Lew Grade at that time, 201 00:09:36,826 --> 00:09:41,320 and I had been doing a number of TV plays, 202 00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:44,202 a whole string of them, in the days when they were live, 203 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,958 in other words, when it said in the studio, 204 00:09:46,961 --> 00:09:50,249 "Vision on", you were exposed to the millions, 205 00:09:50,256 --> 00:09:52,623 or however many that were watching, and if you made 206 00:09:52,633 --> 00:09:56,092 a mistake, you didn't have the privilege of going 207 00:09:56,095 --> 00:09:58,052 back and picking it up and correcting it, so 208 00:09:58,055 --> 00:10:00,467 it was very exciting, good for the adrenaline. 209 00:10:00,474 --> 00:10:04,217 One of the plays that I did was a play called 210 00:10:04,228 --> 00:10:07,641 The Big Knife, by Clifford Odets, 211 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:11,979 in which I played an ageing movie star. 212 00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:14,853 And Lew Grade saw it, and at the time they were 213 00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:18,778 looking for someone to be in a new series that they 214 00:10:18,868 --> 00:10:22,327 were preparing called Danger Man. 215 00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:25,914 (Danger Man theme) 216 00:10:30,546 --> 00:10:33,288 [Patrick McGoohan: voiceover] Every government has its Secret Service branch. 217 00:10:33,299 --> 00:10:36,337 America, it's CIA, France, Deuxieme Bureau, 218 00:10:36,385 --> 00:10:38,251 England, MI5. 219 00:10:38,346 --> 00:10:41,714 A messy job? Well, that's when they usually call on me, or 220 00:10:41,807 --> 00:10:43,047 someone like me. 221 00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:45,182 Oh, yes, my name is Drake. 222 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:47,556 John Drake. 223 00:10:47,772 --> 00:10:50,935 (dramatic crescendo) 224 00:10:51,567 --> 00:10:54,685 The first script I got had a sequence in it 225 00:10:54,737 --> 00:10:57,729 where I was lying on a bed, 226 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:01,529 and there was a young lady lying beside me on the bed - 227 00:11:01,619 --> 00:11:06,580 on the bed - and there was a piece in the plot 228 00:11:06,957 --> 00:11:12,452 where I had to get at a very pertinent document... 229 00:11:12,546 --> 00:11:16,005 There was a picture behind the bed, 230 00:11:16,008 --> 00:11:20,593 and behind the picture was a safe with a combination, 231 00:11:20,596 --> 00:11:23,964 and in the script, it said that I rolled over 232 00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:26,971 on top of the girl, and said "Excuse me", 233 00:11:27,019 --> 00:11:31,229 in order to work the picture across, get at the 234 00:11:31,232 --> 00:11:34,691 combination, and find the document. 235 00:11:34,694 --> 00:11:38,904 Then read the secrets contained therein. 236 00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:41,064 So I mentioned that this didn't seem to be 237 00:11:41,075 --> 00:11:42,281 a particularly good idea, 238 00:11:42,284 --> 00:11:44,241 it'd be better without, 239 00:11:44,328 --> 00:11:48,162 and, er... in fact we didn't do that. 240 00:11:48,499 --> 00:11:52,163 Nor did we ever do anything like that again. 241 00:11:54,088 --> 00:11:56,295 - [Narrator] If that particular scene was never shot, 242 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:59,423 many others involving women spies and characters were. 243 00:11:59,635 --> 00:12:03,173 McGoohan was in at the birth of what was later termed 244 00:12:03,222 --> 00:12:05,714 the Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang genre. 245 00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:09,309 The age of the handsome, callous secret agent. 246 00:12:09,311 --> 00:12:13,475 But he obviously had a very different moral compass. 247 00:12:14,942 --> 00:12:18,435 - During this time, Bond came along. 248 00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:22,271 And he had been offered that character, that role. 249 00:12:22,283 --> 00:12:26,402 And he had turned it down, for the same reasons 250 00:12:26,495 --> 00:12:30,534 that he didn't like the character in John Drake. 251 00:12:32,543 --> 00:12:38,880 He felt that it was a very stereotypic, Bond-like character, 252 00:12:39,592 --> 00:12:43,301 that was... a womaniser, 253 00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:46,926 carried a gun, and shot people. 254 00:12:47,349 --> 00:12:49,431 (gunshot) 255 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:54,054 He didn't want to play someone that was full of himself, 256 00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:56,932 I can tell you that. 257 00:12:57,193 --> 00:12:59,400 He was good looking, 258 00:12:59,528 --> 00:13:02,486 but it wasn't just his looks. 259 00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:05,983 You knew that he was always thinking, and you could 260 00:13:05,993 --> 00:13:08,735 always see in a scene, he was always 261 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:10,119 working things out. 262 00:13:11,081 --> 00:13:14,824 (urgent music) 263 00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:21,214 He also moved very, very well, in fact, Lew Grade 264 00:13:21,258 --> 00:13:23,841 described it that he moved like a panther. 265 00:13:24,011 --> 00:13:26,048 (growling of a panther) 266 00:13:30,893 --> 00:13:33,806 He was firm and decisive. 267 00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:38,857 Other people have described it as, he was defiant 268 00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:39,815 in every way. 269 00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:42,943 - He can make even the act of putting on his dressing gown 270 00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:45,488 appear as a gesture of defiance. 271 00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:48,150 - I thought that it was proper to do things which 272 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,370 were not offensive, on the television at that time. 273 00:13:52,373 --> 00:13:54,910 Now, of course, they have everything. 274 00:13:54,917 --> 00:13:56,499 The sky's the limit. 275 00:13:56,585 --> 00:13:58,622 But at that time I thought if they wanted to 276 00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:01,254 go out and see something salacious, 277 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:04,128 they could go to a movie theatre that provided 278 00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:06,838 that sort of fare, come home and watch 279 00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:09,383 whatever good clean stuff was going on at the time 280 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:11,222 at home, you know? 281 00:14:11,225 --> 00:14:13,182 That was the general idea anyway, you know. 282 00:14:13,185 --> 00:14:14,926 There's a lot of stuff that's been talked about, 283 00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:16,727 the fact that I'm a prude and I don't believe 284 00:14:16,772 --> 00:14:18,683 in sex and violence and all this sort of nonsense, 285 00:14:18,691 --> 00:14:20,523 well, anyone who says that should go and see a movie 286 00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:23,735 called The Gypsy and the Gentleman, where I 287 00:14:23,821 --> 00:14:27,155 threshed around in the hay with Melina Mercouri for a considerable 288 00:14:27,157 --> 00:14:29,615 amount of time, and another one, I can't remember the 289 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,152 name of it, it was awful, where I had a to rape 290 00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:35,788 the young Canadian girl, but that wasn't for the telly, 291 00:14:35,791 --> 00:14:37,373 as they say. 292 00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:41,536 (water splashing and metal clanging) 293 00:14:43,048 --> 00:14:45,164 (thud of fist on face) 294 00:14:55,477 --> 00:14:58,720 (rustling of clothing) 295 00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:01,848 (romantic music) 296 00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:03,691 - Don't leave me, Jess. 297 00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:08,363 I tried to give you everything. 298 00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:11,073 (romantic music) 299 00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:16,321 - [Narrator] By now, the interview was going well. 300 00:15:16,415 --> 00:15:18,577 Patrick was relaxing, and so was I. 301 00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:20,913 - Just repeat that question to me while (background shout) 302 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,081 they're fixing it. 303 00:15:22,129 --> 00:15:23,619 - [Narrator] But the local crew were constantly 304 00:15:23,672 --> 00:15:26,630 having technical problems that I didn't understand. 305 00:15:26,675 --> 00:15:27,836 Nor did Patrick. 306 00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:29,208 - Chuck? 307 00:15:29,261 --> 00:15:31,172 - I started to feel that we were letting him down, 308 00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:33,512 that this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity 309 00:15:33,515 --> 00:15:36,758 was slipping through our inept fingers. 310 00:15:37,394 --> 00:15:40,762 That's when McGoohan took control. 311 00:15:40,814 --> 00:15:45,775 - How would you feel about a little stretch of the legs? Hmm? 312 00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:49,604 Would you be kind enough to follow me in here? 313 00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:51,398 - [Narrator] He was now directing us. 314 00:15:51,408 --> 00:15:53,445 As he literally started to call the shots. 315 00:15:53,494 --> 00:15:56,282 - Shall we stretch our legs? 316 00:15:56,455 --> 00:15:58,617 If you'll follow me... 317 00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:00,536 They're all ready? 318 00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:02,541 - [Narrator] He was creating his own sequence, 319 00:16:02,586 --> 00:16:06,580 moving the cameraman, and us, from room to room, 320 00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:07,747 to room. 321 00:16:08,217 --> 00:16:10,879 - This is all too muddy, let's start over, 322 00:16:10,928 --> 00:16:14,137 not use this at all, we'll do another lot. 323 00:16:15,975 --> 00:16:17,557 Still rolling? - [Crew] Keep rolling, yes. 324 00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:18,136 - [McGoohan] Keep rolling? 325 00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:20,134 You still rolling? 326 00:16:21,355 --> 00:16:23,471 Let's go, no, let's go. 327 00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:26,691 - [Narrator] Finally, we were getting to the target. 328 00:16:26,819 --> 00:16:29,402 The Prisoner was in our sights. 329 00:16:29,405 --> 00:16:31,237 - I felt like doing something else, 330 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,572 and I looked for something else to do, 331 00:16:33,659 --> 00:16:35,946 and I had, of course, something at the back of my mind, 332 00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:37,326 and that's why we're here, isn't it? 333 00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:41,160 (thunderclap) 334 00:16:43,544 --> 00:16:46,627 (The Prisoner theme music begins) 335 00:16:58,308 --> 00:17:03,553 The general theme of The Prisoner has been with me 336 00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:07,148 for years, since I was a little boy, 337 00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:11,611 being brought up in a very strict, religious household. 338 00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:15,232 Going to school with strict schoolmasters. 339 00:17:15,242 --> 00:17:16,482 - Society. 340 00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:17,491 - Yes, sir? 341 00:17:17,536 --> 00:17:20,153 - Society is a place where people exist together. 342 00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:21,279 - Yes, sir. 343 00:17:21,290 --> 00:17:23,156 The individual little boy, 344 00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:27,536 any little boy up against this sort of a pressure. 345 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,666 - You must conform! - Yes, sir. 346 00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:32,840 - Itis my sworn duty to see that you do conform. 347 00:17:32,926 --> 00:17:34,132 - Yes sir. 348 00:17:34,219 --> 00:17:36,881 And the slight isolation in it, and that's what 349 00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,046 the theme of The Prisoner is, the individual 350 00:17:39,099 --> 00:17:43,013 in revolt against the bureaucracy. 351 00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:46,596 (police sirens wailing) 352 00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:49,144 And it's always been with me, 353 00:17:49,193 --> 00:17:52,777 and I suppose in some respect that sort of rebellion 354 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:55,689 is in everyone, isn't it, in one way or another? 355 00:17:56,325 --> 00:18:00,159 It came to fruition, I had done lots of writing 356 00:18:00,162 --> 00:18:02,153 on that theme, nothing to do with The Prisoner, 357 00:18:02,164 --> 00:18:05,873 but I got the idea of crystallising it, on the first 358 00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:10,336 two weeks of location we did on the 39 half hours 359 00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,500 of Danger Man. 360 00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:16,630 We're in North Wales, and we had to shoot a sequence 361 00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:20,255 at a place called Portmeirion, and I remember 362 00:18:20,265 --> 00:18:23,132 I was driving an Aston Martin car down this little street 363 00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,510 into this village, the like of which I'd never seen, 364 00:18:25,562 --> 00:18:28,680 certainly in the British Isles, 365 00:18:28,732 --> 00:18:32,566 and it was like driving into sunny Italy. 366 00:18:32,778 --> 00:18:36,146 (dreamlike, uplifting music) 367 00:19:03,684 --> 00:19:06,551 I stood there in wonderment, and when we'd done 368 00:19:06,562 --> 00:19:10,100 the sequence, I found out that the place had been 369 00:19:10,107 --> 00:19:12,018 designed by a gentleman by the name of 370 00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,058 Clough Williams-Ellis. 371 00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:15,977 I got together with him, talked about it, 372 00:19:16,029 --> 00:19:18,111 and he told me it was his dream. 373 00:19:18,198 --> 00:19:22,408 Basically designed after Portofino, 374 00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:25,616 and I wandered around, and there were pieces of all 375 00:19:25,622 --> 00:19:28,330 sorts of sculpture from all over the world, 376 00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:30,290 anything, Chinese, Greek, you name it. 377 00:19:30,335 --> 00:19:31,746 It was there. 378 00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,837 And I thought, how strange it hadn't been used 379 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,801 as a setting for a film, or something of that nature. 380 00:19:39,803 --> 00:19:41,510 - [Archive film narration] Swimming or sailing or sitting 381 00:19:41,513 --> 00:19:44,722 and sunning, if you dream of lazy days and lazy ways 382 00:19:44,808 --> 00:19:47,220 of having fun, if you long for the romance 383 00:19:47,227 --> 00:19:50,219 and charm of old Italy, to to Wales. 384 00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:52,392 That's it, go to Wales; to North Wales, 385 00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:54,811 to be exact, to Merionethshire, where 386 00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:56,976 Portmeirion nestles beside Tremadog bay, 387 00:19:56,987 --> 00:19:59,979 as though it were the Mediterranean. 388 00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:05,280 A man's dream transformed it into this warm 389 00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:07,866 Mediterranean village that so surprises the eye 390 00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:11,074 prepared for snowy peaks and lush green valleys. 391 00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,702 A man's dream transformed the coastline that 392 00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:15,794 is now Portmeirion. 393 00:20:15,797 --> 00:20:17,708 Slowly, it became a piece of Italy, 394 00:20:17,716 --> 00:20:20,708 slowly the dream became fabulous reality. 395 00:20:20,719 --> 00:20:25,213 - It could be the miles of beach, and the ocean. 396 00:20:25,224 --> 00:20:28,012 It could be an island, it could be... 397 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,430 a village. 398 00:20:30,646 --> 00:20:32,432 Anywhere in the world. 399 00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:33,562 Isolated. 400 00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:39,231 And I began cooking on my original little 401 00:20:39,446 --> 00:20:46,239 isolation theme set within that place, and of course I talked 402 00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:48,452 to people about it, particularly David Tomblin, 403 00:20:48,538 --> 00:20:50,779 who was the First Assistant Director on all those 404 00:20:50,874 --> 00:20:53,832 Danger Man episodes, and it developed 405 00:20:53,877 --> 00:20:57,370 and it developed and it developed, until such time as some 406 00:20:57,381 --> 00:20:59,088 scribbling was done, 407 00:20:59,549 --> 00:21:05,420 and Danger Man finished, and, er... what happened next? 408 00:21:05,889 --> 00:21:08,927 - [Archive film narration] Perfection here combines with practicality. 409 00:21:08,976 --> 00:21:11,843 Here is an hotel and a town hall, and garages and shops. 410 00:21:12,062 --> 00:21:14,804 (lush, serene orchestral music) 411 00:21:24,783 --> 00:21:27,024 You imagine togaed Romans strolling beneath 412 00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:29,402 these classical colonnades. 413 00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,825 You imagine yourself an ocean away from Wales, 414 00:21:31,832 --> 00:21:34,449 but then Portmeirion is famed for firing imaginations. 415 00:21:34,459 --> 00:21:38,418 Literary imaginations, in particular, have thrived here. 416 00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:41,130 - When my father saw Portmeirion, 417 00:21:42,426 --> 00:21:44,337 he went, "Oh, okay." 418 00:21:45,387 --> 00:21:48,925 (calm, atmospheric music) 419 00:21:56,732 --> 00:22:01,898 You had this place that could've been anywhere in the world, 420 00:22:02,404 --> 00:22:05,112 that was surreal, 421 00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:09,867 that was another world, that was a Neverland. 422 00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:13,238 (calm, gently rhythmic music) 423 00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:26,384 I know for my mother it's a place she can go to 424 00:22:26,428 --> 00:22:28,669 for a couple of days and then 425 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,049 for some reason, there's a sense of uneasiness. 426 00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:35,301 (sinister sting) 427 00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:38,099 But he knew how to use that. 428 00:22:39,566 --> 00:22:43,810 And I'm sure he felt the same the first time he was there 429 00:22:45,238 --> 00:22:48,822 (unearthly, eerie music and camera shutter clicks) 430 00:22:54,247 --> 00:22:56,830 You just want to get out. 431 00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:10,629 - What happened to the scribbles was that I went to see 432 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,297 Lew Grade and said, all right, 433 00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:17,139 shall we sort of say, enough Danger Man? 434 00:23:17,145 --> 00:23:19,728 (pounding of typewriter keys) 435 00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:22,682 - He said, "Come on, Pat, let's keep going", 436 00:23:22,734 --> 00:23:27,194 you know, "We're doing well here, everybody loves you. 437 00:23:27,197 --> 00:23:30,906 "Let's keep making it", and he said "No. 438 00:23:31,076 --> 00:23:32,407 "I'm done." 439 00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:34,109 - He asked me would I do anything else? 440 00:23:34,121 --> 00:23:37,955 And I said, well, you know, I do happen to have 441 00:23:37,999 --> 00:23:42,618 a little idea in my mind, and a few little notes 442 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:44,537 on it, and took my briefcase, opened it, 443 00:23:44,548 --> 00:23:50,089 and took out quite a huge wad of stuff, 444 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:53,212 you know, sort of, this thick. 445 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:58,142 In here, Lew got (clearing throat) an outline 446 00:23:58,145 --> 00:24:02,184 for a story, thing, a setting here, here, here, 447 00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:04,431 and descriptions of things. 448 00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:07,852 I think he became somewhat alarmed when he saw 449 00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:12,699 all these pages going by, and said, "Pat, 450 00:24:12,784 --> 00:24:15,742 "why don't you just tell me about it for a while?" 451 00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:20,156 - So Lew Grade was not very good at reading material, 452 00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:22,499 he kind of wanted to be told and shown. 453 00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:26,374 And so my father gave him the premise. 454 00:24:28,425 --> 00:24:34,888 Okay, what if... What if, not necessarily John Drake, 455 00:24:35,807 --> 00:24:39,846 but a character like John Drake, wants to retire? 456 00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:43,016 What happens if he's not allowed? 457 00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:46,641 (atmospheric piano music) 458 00:24:46,818 --> 00:24:50,152 - He listened, until I'd finished, I sat down, 459 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,318 then he got up, puffed on his cigar, marched around 460 00:24:53,325 --> 00:24:55,032 a little bit, 461 00:24:55,035 --> 00:24:57,527 then he turned on me and said "Pat, you see, 462 00:24:57,579 --> 00:25:01,322 "it's so crazy, it might work. 463 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,037 "When can we start?" 464 00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:06,205 (ominous music) 465 00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:07,995 - [Narrator] McGoohan's concept for The Prisoner 466 00:25:08,131 --> 00:25:11,214 wasn't an easy fit for television, even in the confident, 467 00:25:11,301 --> 00:25:14,464 experimental atmosphere of late '60s Britain. 468 00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:17,554 (distorted sitar music) 469 00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:21,300 Just how inconvenient his initial concept was 470 00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:24,770 is something he had revealed in his Canadian interview 471 00:25:24,814 --> 00:25:25,645 in 1977. 472 00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:29,058 - You didn't initially want to do 17 films? 473 00:25:29,402 --> 00:25:31,359 - No, seven. 474 00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,114 As a serial, as opposed to a series. 475 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,659 I thought that the concept of the thing would sustain 476 00:25:38,662 --> 00:25:40,198 for only seven. 477 00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:43,539 But then Lew Grade wanted to make his sale. 478 00:25:43,583 --> 00:25:48,703 And he wanted 26, and I couldn't conceive of 26 stories, 479 00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:51,080 because it would be spreading it very thin. 480 00:25:51,091 --> 00:25:53,332 But we did manage over a weekend, with my writers 481 00:25:53,343 --> 00:25:57,052 to cook up 10 more outlines, and then eventually we did 482 00:25:57,097 --> 00:25:59,338 17, but it should be seven. 483 00:26:00,267 --> 00:26:02,304 At the time, what was selling very well 484 00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:04,681 was Danger Man, for instance. 485 00:26:04,688 --> 00:26:06,554 Action adventure stuff. 486 00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:10,975 But the thing about Lew Grade was that he was 487 00:26:10,986 --> 00:26:13,068 not limited in his thinking. 488 00:26:13,071 --> 00:26:16,405 He had a broad concept of life, 489 00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:17,944 and he was willing. 490 00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,659 (up-tempo music) 491 00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:22,827 I said, of course, there'll be a little action adventure, 492 00:26:22,831 --> 00:26:25,869 in The Prisoner too, most of it in the mind, but 493 00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:27,286 there'll be some, 494 00:26:29,546 --> 00:26:32,664 but then he said, he just said go. 495 00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:37,669 You see, he has an instinct, he has a feeling for something, 496 00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,636 he lives on instinct. 497 00:26:39,639 --> 00:26:42,552 - I think Lew liked the danger, 498 00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:46,176 and he liked taking a gamble too, 499 00:26:46,187 --> 00:26:49,054 I mean, he was a business man, 500 00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:50,931 but he like taking a gamble. 501 00:26:50,942 --> 00:26:54,310 And he totally took a gamble on The Prisoner. 502 00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:57,029 - From the very moment that he said go, 503 00:26:57,032 --> 00:27:00,070 and shook my hand, we never had a contract, 504 00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:03,694 he never interfered in anything that I did, 505 00:27:03,705 --> 00:27:05,241 never bothered me. 506 00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:10,792 - [Narrator] Whatever difficulties both Patrick 507 00:27:10,795 --> 00:27:13,162 and we were experiencing in trying to film an interview 508 00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:16,211 about The Prisoner, and despite even bigger difficulties 509 00:27:16,217 --> 00:27:19,005 that were waiting for us just around the corner, 510 00:27:19,012 --> 00:27:21,049 he did something very kind. 511 00:27:21,097 --> 00:27:23,304 He called Lew, now Lord Grade, in London, about 512 00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:25,470 doing an interview for us. 513 00:27:26,061 --> 00:27:28,519 I like to think that he told Lew to do it, 514 00:27:28,521 --> 00:27:29,977 rather than asked. 515 00:27:31,524 --> 00:27:34,937 That's the Patrick McGoohan we all loved. 516 00:27:36,029 --> 00:27:37,940 - Somebody once asked me, "How d'you get on with 517 00:27:37,947 --> 00:27:39,062 "Pat McGoohan?" 518 00:27:39,074 --> 00:27:43,659 I said, "Very easily, I have no problems with him at all." 519 00:27:43,662 --> 00:27:45,073 "Well, how do you do it?" 520 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,367 I said "I just give in to him." 521 00:27:50,418 --> 00:27:52,500 I left it entirely in his hands, I was 522 00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:54,245 absolutely contented. 523 00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:57,881 I knew that they had a project in mind, 524 00:27:57,884 --> 00:28:00,091 I loved the concept of it, 525 00:28:00,136 --> 00:28:03,504 I loved the locale, and most important, 526 00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:06,177 I thought Pat McGoohan was a star in whatever 527 00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:07,640 he appeared. 528 00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:09,476 I thought he had a remarkable talent. 529 00:28:09,479 --> 00:28:12,312 He was an outstanding personality. 530 00:28:12,315 --> 00:28:15,899 He was the best leading man we had in the country 531 00:28:15,902 --> 00:28:16,983 at that time. 532 00:28:17,946 --> 00:28:21,689 - There was certainly an intensity about him. 533 00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:25,947 He never compromised himself. 534 00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:29,697 And that, I think, is the way he led his life. 535 00:28:29,708 --> 00:28:32,450 A lot of the times, I think he putin a lot of pressure 536 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:36,454 on himself sometimes, and the people around him. 537 00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:43,132 I think sometimes when you've got these ideas, 538 00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:47,631 and these thoughts, and you know things, 539 00:28:47,642 --> 00:28:51,601 it's sometimes hard to live in the world. 540 00:28:51,604 --> 00:28:56,064 When you see what's going on, and I think 541 00:28:56,151 --> 00:29:00,145 in that respect, there was a sense of isolation. 542 00:29:01,114 --> 00:29:04,482 At periods of time, I'm not saying all the way through. 543 00:29:04,492 --> 00:29:06,028 (Village horn fanfare) 544 00:29:06,035 --> 00:29:08,743 - [Village Announcer] Good morning again! 545 00:29:08,747 --> 00:29:09,782 - Can we go tighter on it, 546 00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:11,700 and then we just exclude that. 547 00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:14,791 Let's go tighter on it, we'll be here all night. 548 00:29:14,878 --> 00:29:18,337 Okay, check a frame on this please, Mike, so that you 549 00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:19,795 exclude all that. 550 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:21,130 We just don't have it. 551 00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:22,541 We got it? 552 00:29:22,552 --> 00:29:24,463 ‘Cause we cut back to the other shot anyway, 553 00:29:24,471 --> 00:29:26,633 so let's do it. This next time. 554 00:29:27,682 --> 00:29:29,673 - [Narrator] By now, it was dark outside. 555 00:29:29,684 --> 00:29:32,392 - [McGoohan] Hope so. - [Narrator] It was dark inside, too. 556 00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:34,641 But Patrick perservered. 557 00:29:34,647 --> 00:29:38,481 With a film crew obviously not up to the job in hand. 558 00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:41,398 In fact, he seemed to become increasingly determined 559 00:29:41,488 --> 00:29:42,603 to have his say. 560 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:46,357 Next question: "You wrote and directed several 561 00:29:46,409 --> 00:29:50,778 "episodes of The Prisoner, sometimes under made-up names. 562 00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:52,746 "Did your role as Executive Producer on the series 563 00:29:52,791 --> 00:29:55,954 "enable you to keep better control of it?" 564 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,247 - The control and the overall look of the thing 565 00:29:58,254 --> 00:30:02,373 had nothing to do with the title of Executive Producer. 566 00:30:03,551 --> 00:30:07,089 Since I had cooked up the idea, I guess that 567 00:30:07,138 --> 00:30:09,630 they referred back to me if they wanted 568 00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:11,473 to know what was going to happen next. 569 00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,218 What was the intention of it all, what was the direction 570 00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:18,264 of it all, what did it mean, and all that sort of stuff. 571 00:30:18,274 --> 00:30:21,141 So the titles had nothing to do with it. 572 00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:24,440 I didn't sort of ask for the Executive Producer role 573 00:30:24,447 --> 00:30:26,563 at all, it was sort of pushed upon me because the lads 574 00:30:26,574 --> 00:30:29,111 sort of said, "Well, you'd better put your name up there as something", 575 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,821 and I didn't have it up there 576 00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:32,820 as the creator, so you'd better stick it up there, 577 00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:34,697 something to do with the other side of production, 578 00:30:34,707 --> 00:30:36,414 as opposed to just acting in it and doing the odd 579 00:30:36,459 --> 00:30:39,372 bit of directing and writing. 580 00:30:39,712 --> 00:30:43,376 - When The Prisoner started, they had this concept, 581 00:30:43,508 --> 00:30:48,969 it was a concept show, and it was very clearly thought out. 582 00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:52,176 None of this was an accident. 583 00:30:52,183 --> 00:30:54,800 And I think my father had written something like 584 00:30:54,811 --> 00:31:00,056 a 40-page outline of everything. Wardrobe. 585 00:31:02,735 --> 00:31:03,566 Sets. 586 00:31:05,905 --> 00:31:07,441 The phones. 587 00:31:09,075 --> 00:31:10,611 The blazers. 588 00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:15,204 But imagine being the director or a writer, 589 00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:18,494 coming onto a show like that, and understanding 590 00:31:18,501 --> 00:31:22,790 immediately what everyone is going for. 591 00:31:22,964 --> 00:31:28,084 So it was important to my father to keep the concept 592 00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:35,224 intact, and to not veer off, 593 00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:39,765 and the last thing that he wanted was to have 594 00:31:39,814 --> 00:31:43,148 just another secret agent show. 595 00:31:45,486 --> 00:31:49,605 So in a way he had to be involved in every aspect of it, 596 00:31:50,533 --> 00:31:52,740 because it was in his mind. 597 00:31:54,078 --> 00:31:55,989 (laughter) 598 00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:59,372 (quietly ominous music) 599 00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:05,996 - [McGoohan] The look of it, yes, going back to the beginning 600 00:32:06,007 --> 00:32:09,045 of the concept of the man in isolation against 601 00:32:09,052 --> 00:32:11,794 the establishment, against the bureaucracy, the best 602 00:32:11,804 --> 00:32:16,549 place to put him is in an area of isolation, 603 00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:20,136 whether an island or a remote village somewhere 604 00:32:20,813 --> 00:32:22,349 in the world. 605 00:32:22,815 --> 00:32:26,558 Then it was best to get down to basics and say 606 00:32:26,694 --> 00:32:29,527 this village; what is this village like? 607 00:32:30,949 --> 00:32:33,190 Well, we knew what it was like architecturally 608 00:32:33,201 --> 00:32:35,317 because we were using Portmeirion. 609 00:32:35,328 --> 00:32:39,071 Then we sort of decided to think about what was 610 00:32:39,082 --> 00:32:41,073 the plumbing like, did it have a newspaper, 611 00:32:41,084 --> 00:32:43,371 if it had a newspaper, what was the newspaper called? 612 00:32:43,586 --> 00:32:47,545 Electricity, television, what communication system? 613 00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:50,173 (Village horn fanfare) 614 00:32:50,218 --> 00:32:53,586 Transport, all that, we worked it out as if researching 615 00:32:53,888 --> 00:32:56,346 how one would build a city. 616 00:32:59,060 --> 00:33:01,518 - [Narrator] In the real world, Portmeirion 617 00:33:01,604 --> 00:33:03,936 was a holiday resort. 618 00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:05,772 So when location shooting on The Prisoner began 619 00:33:05,775 --> 00:33:10,190 in September 1966, the streets were still full 620 00:33:10,196 --> 00:33:11,186 of tourists. 621 00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:15,482 One of them shot the filming of the first episode, Arrival, 622 00:33:15,535 --> 00:33:22,282 at close range, capturing exactly what was being shot by the production. 623 00:33:23,042 --> 00:33:26,285 (dreamlike music) 624 00:33:28,756 --> 00:33:30,246 (whirring) 625 00:33:30,425 --> 00:33:32,507 (engine revving and tyres screeching) 626 00:33:34,012 --> 00:33:35,377 - Where to, sir? 627 00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:37,595 Ou desirez-vous aller? 628 00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:39,222 - Take me to the nearest town. 629 00:33:39,225 --> 00:33:41,637 - [Taxi driver] Oh, we're only the local service. 630 00:33:41,644 --> 00:33:43,885 - Take me as far as you can. 631 00:33:43,938 --> 00:33:45,349 Why did you speak to me in French? 632 00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:46,938 - French is international. 633 00:33:46,941 --> 00:33:48,181 - [Number Six] I suppose it's a waste of time 634 00:33:48,192 --> 00:33:49,523 asking the name of this place? 635 00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:50,858 - As a matter of fact, I thought you might 636 00:33:50,903 --> 00:33:52,439 be Polish, perhaps a Czech. 637 00:33:52,488 --> 00:33:54,479 - [Number Six] What would Poles or Czechs be doing here? 638 00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:55,980 - It's very cosmopolitan. 639 00:33:55,992 --> 00:33:57,733 You never know who you meet next. 640 00:33:57,994 --> 00:34:00,577 (whimsical music) 641 00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:02,116 (tyres screeching) 642 00:34:02,206 --> 00:34:03,412 Be seeing you. 643 00:34:03,458 --> 00:34:06,200 (roar of engine) 644 00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:13,374 - Quite honestly, it's almost as if there is 645 00:34:13,384 --> 00:34:16,422 no Prisoner without Portmeirion. 646 00:34:16,429 --> 00:34:17,840 And vice versa. 647 00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:23,592 They would've come up with something, 648 00:34:23,603 --> 00:34:26,220 and they would've had to have probably built something 649 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:27,561 from scratch. 650 00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:31,684 I don't know if they would've gone to a location. 651 00:34:31,861 --> 00:34:35,070 (suspenseful music) 652 00:34:46,125 --> 00:34:49,743 (musical phrase repeats) 653 00:34:50,963 --> 00:34:53,170 Clough, the architect, 654 00:34:53,216 --> 00:34:57,676 he had only just finished building it. 655 00:34:58,012 --> 00:35:00,253 It was actually maybe still in the process 656 00:35:00,264 --> 00:35:03,973 of being completed when they started filming. 657 00:35:05,686 --> 00:35:08,724 But I can honestly say to you, 658 00:35:08,731 --> 00:35:11,598 I believe it was built for The Prisoner. 659 00:35:11,609 --> 00:35:14,271 (suspenseful percussive music) 660 00:35:21,869 --> 00:35:22,984 - Lovely day. 661 00:35:22,995 --> 00:35:24,406 - Showers later. 662 00:35:24,413 --> 00:35:25,244 - Lovely day. 663 00:35:25,289 --> 00:35:26,871 - Showers later. 664 00:35:26,874 --> 00:35:29,491 (suspenseful music) 665 00:35:30,461 --> 00:35:31,951 - Careful sir, they're new plants. 666 00:35:32,088 --> 00:35:33,294 - (hushed) Sorry. 667 00:35:35,174 --> 00:35:35,959 Goodbye. 668 00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:46,429 - [McGoohan] With regard to the Penny Farthing... 669 00:35:46,435 --> 00:35:50,804 brought images to my mind of a very elegant period. 670 00:35:50,815 --> 00:35:52,476 If you remember those old etchings 671 00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:55,851 with the Penny Farthing and the gentleman 672 00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,188 beautifully dressed, seated atop 673 00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:02,236 the big one of the two - the Penny - 674 00:36:02,243 --> 00:36:05,952 wearing a top hat, moustached, all this sort of thing, 675 00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:09,080 and the fine patent-leather shoes on those wheels, 676 00:36:09,167 --> 00:36:12,080 and it was an era of elegance. 677 00:36:12,461 --> 00:36:14,793 And the Penny Farthing was used to symbolise 678 00:36:14,797 --> 00:36:19,416 progress, which was an ironic comment, I hope, 679 00:36:19,427 --> 00:36:21,919 on the fact that progress perhaps 680 00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:23,966 goes too fast for us sometimes, and we're not 681 00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,010 able to catch up with it. 682 00:36:26,893 --> 00:36:29,760 (playful, slow-paced jazz) 683 00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:32,728 - [Narrator] It had been a long, nerve-jangling day. 684 00:36:32,732 --> 00:36:35,440 Finally, Patrick led us to the empty, cavernous 685 00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:38,435 living room of this mysterious house. 686 00:36:38,446 --> 00:36:41,484 It felt like an abandoned film set, 687 00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:44,403 where he could play his final scene in slow retreat, 688 00:36:44,452 --> 00:36:46,318 and at a safe distance. 689 00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:52,374 But why had all this been so difficult for him, 690 00:36:52,418 --> 00:36:53,283 and for us? 691 00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:58,964 - He was embarrassed to talk about it and to take 692 00:36:58,966 --> 00:37:00,798 credit for everything. 693 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,630 - [McGoohan - echoing] I'm the one that's scared. 694 00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:06,676 - And again it goes back to not wanting to talk 695 00:37:06,682 --> 00:37:08,298 too much about himself. 696 00:37:08,309 --> 00:37:12,519 - [McGoohan - echoing] Just, sort of, see if it's possible to relax at all... 697 00:37:13,648 --> 00:37:16,561 - And not explaining too much 698 00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:19,818 about the meaning of this or that. 699 00:37:20,363 --> 00:37:22,070 He felt... - [McGoohan - echoing] Shoot. 700 00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:25,532 - ...the work spoke for itself, and it was left 701 00:37:25,534 --> 00:37:28,492 for individual interpretation. 702 00:37:28,537 --> 00:37:31,325 - [McGoohan - echoing] Any more explaining to do? 703 00:37:31,374 --> 00:37:32,159 Come on. 704 00:37:33,668 --> 00:37:37,912 - He didn't care for actors talking about themselves. 705 00:37:37,922 --> 00:37:40,630 He thought it was very indulgent. 706 00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:44,630 And he also didn't believe that actors 707 00:37:44,637 --> 00:37:48,005 should give away their secrets. 708 00:37:48,015 --> 00:37:49,881 - [Narrator] I didn't know that then. 709 00:37:49,892 --> 00:37:50,927 I do now. 710 00:37:50,977 --> 00:37:52,183 - [McGoohan] We'll have to ask Chris. 711 00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:54,223 Have to ask Chris. 712 00:37:54,855 --> 00:37:56,061 Why was that? 713 00:37:56,148 --> 00:37:57,730 - [Narrator] By the time it came to talking about 714 00:37:57,817 --> 00:38:00,559 The Prisoner's infamous final episode, Fall Out, 715 00:38:00,653 --> 00:38:02,985 McGoohan was in full sarcastic mode. 716 00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:07,486 He was enjoying teasing us, testing us... 717 00:38:07,493 --> 00:38:09,154 tormenting us. 718 00:38:09,161 --> 00:38:09,992 - [McGoohan] Religious? 719 00:38:11,038 --> 00:38:14,281 What was religious in the last episode? 720 00:38:15,293 --> 00:38:16,909 Religious? 721 00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:19,286 We what? 722 00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,542 Purgatory was in it? 723 00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:22,835 Where was that? 724 00:38:24,969 --> 00:38:28,553 (alarm blaring) # Ezekiel cracked dem dry bones 725 00:38:28,931 --> 00:38:31,639 # Now, hear the word of the Lord. 726 00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:34,517 # Ezekiel connected dem dry bones 727 00:38:34,603 --> 00:38:37,436 # Ezekiel connected dem dry bones 728 00:38:37,481 --> 00:38:42,066 # Ezekiel connected dem dry bones Now, hear the word of the Lord... # 729 00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:44,060 What? Did it? 730 00:38:44,071 --> 00:38:45,527 Really? Oh. 731 00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:49,949 Well... (clearing throat) 732 00:38:49,952 --> 00:38:51,693 it was nice talking to you. 733 00:38:51,746 --> 00:38:52,861 I suppose. 734 00:38:53,873 --> 00:38:56,160 Sure there's nothing else? 735 00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:59,876 Is there anything, any more explaining to do? 736 00:38:59,879 --> 00:39:01,461 Come on. 737 00:39:01,464 --> 00:39:02,954 Must be. 738 00:39:02,965 --> 00:39:05,457 I can't think of anything else, either. 739 00:39:05,468 --> 00:39:09,006 If (clearing throat), perchance, you have 740 00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:12,756 understood anything at all about this... er... 741 00:39:14,226 --> 00:39:18,845 Oh, yes, indeed, if perchance you have understood... 742 00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:21,063 They're pointing at me, those chaps up there... 743 00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:23,104 ...anything at all about this, 744 00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:25,397 it, er... (clearing throat) 745 00:39:25,488 --> 00:39:29,903 will, er... profoundly disappoint me, 746 00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:35,787 because I've done my best to confuse you. 747 00:39:36,415 --> 00:39:39,373 But, you know, we'll, we'll keep trying, won't we? 748 00:39:39,794 --> 00:39:41,785 Be seeing you. 749 00:39:43,255 --> 00:39:45,292 - [Narrator] It was over. (door shuts) 750 00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:48,382 To reward ourselves for surviving, 751 00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:52,175 we drove into the Mojave Desert the very next day. 752 00:39:52,181 --> 00:39:55,219 Along the highway, relaxing resorts with names like 753 00:39:55,267 --> 00:39:58,601 1000 Hot Springs, and Desert Hot Springs. 754 00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:02,852 Our mistake is that we never once looked back. 755 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,397 Our little road trip ended right here, 756 00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:08,691 in this remote desert hotel. 757 00:40:09,782 --> 00:40:14,401 We were in this very room, when the phone rang. 758 00:40:14,412 --> 00:40:16,028 It was McGoohan. (bleeping) 759 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,745 He was already here, waiting for us, someplace nearby. 760 00:40:20,751 --> 00:40:23,368 I'll never know how he found us. 761 00:40:24,547 --> 00:40:27,130 But I do remember his last words. 762 00:40:27,133 --> 00:40:29,465 - [McGoohan - echoing] Be seeing you. 763 00:40:29,468 --> 00:40:32,210 - [Narrator] We met; he'd changed his mind. 764 00:40:32,221 --> 00:40:34,963 He took out his chequebook and signed a blank cheque. 765 00:40:35,015 --> 00:40:38,883 How much did we want to hand all the footage back? 766 00:40:38,894 --> 00:40:39,929 We couldn't. 767 00:40:39,979 --> 00:40:43,938 We needed the interview, or we had no film. 768 00:40:43,941 --> 00:40:46,524 At last, we reached a compromise. 769 00:40:46,527 --> 00:40:51,397 We agreed to do the entire interview all over again. 770 00:40:51,407 --> 00:40:53,398 That's why the material filmed in that mysterious 771 00:40:53,409 --> 00:40:57,528 empty house in Laurel Canyon has never been seen before. 772 00:41:00,791 --> 00:41:03,909 I should've reminded myself that this was the same Patrick McGoohan 773 00:41:03,919 --> 00:41:07,412 who had wowed theatre audiences in 1959 774 00:41:07,423 --> 00:41:11,587 with a blistering performance in Ibsen's play, Brand. 775 00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:16,300 Brand, an uncompromising priest, a man with such 776 00:41:16,307 --> 00:41:19,516 high moral standards, that few people lived up 777 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,267 to his expectations. 778 00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:25,681 A man made lonely by his own all-or-nothing philosophy. 779 00:41:26,942 --> 00:41:30,105 That was the McGoohan Brand. 780 00:41:30,112 --> 00:41:33,400 - [Catherine] Sometimes a role comes along, 781 00:41:33,407 --> 00:41:36,695 and you have the writing, you have the character, 782 00:41:36,702 --> 00:41:42,789 and you have the actor, and it just fits perfectly, 783 00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:47,209 and it's almost as if the material was written for you. 784 00:41:47,254 --> 00:41:51,293 And I think in this case, that was true. 785 00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:58,046 I was lucky enough to see it. 786 00:41:58,974 --> 00:42:01,306 I can hear him right now, actually. 787 00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:03,267 I can still hear his voice. 788 00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:05,807 - [McGoohan] Jesus, give me light. 789 00:42:05,981 --> 00:42:10,145 - And I still remember him striding across the stage. 790 00:42:11,946 --> 00:42:16,315 Calling out, to God, trying to 791 00:42:17,284 --> 00:42:20,242 because... trying to get an answer. 792 00:42:20,329 --> 00:42:23,117 - Unrepentant as she had lived, 793 00:42:23,123 --> 00:42:25,660 Is not this God's finger pointing? 794 00:42:25,668 --> 00:42:28,751 If I weaken now, I am damned tenfold! 795 00:42:28,754 --> 00:42:31,462 Henceforth, I shall fight unflinchingly 796 00:42:31,465 --> 00:42:33,547 for the victory of the spirit over the weakness 797 00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:34,757 of the flesh! 798 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,421 The Lord has armed me with the blade of His word! 799 00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:39,679 Now I stand firm in my will, now I dare, now I can, 800 00:42:39,682 --> 00:42:40,968 crush mountains! 801 00:42:41,016 --> 00:42:42,848 - Put your affairs in order and leave this place. 802 00:42:42,851 --> 00:42:44,637 If the Earth were to tremble I should still remain! 803 00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:47,228 - It was just so powerful. 804 00:42:47,398 --> 00:42:49,560 Peter Sallis was in it with him, 805 00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:53,902 and he said that when he was onstage with my father 806 00:42:53,904 --> 00:42:56,942 and he looked him in the eye, 807 00:42:57,074 --> 00:43:01,739 he realised that he may never see a performance 808 00:43:01,745 --> 00:43:03,076 like this again. 809 00:43:05,958 --> 00:43:11,795 The fact that he was so volatile, and he was... 810 00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:15,131 driven. 811 00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:16,883 He was direct. 812 00:43:18,053 --> 00:43:20,135 He had a purpose. 813 00:43:20,139 --> 00:43:23,131 The undeniable purpose, 814 00:43:24,351 --> 00:43:26,638 and a passion. 815 00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:32,815 And I think all those elements were very much 816 00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:34,772 in Number Six. 817 00:43:36,572 --> 00:43:37,858 - If you insist on living a dream, 818 00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:39,776 you may be taken for mad. 819 00:43:39,783 --> 00:43:41,114 - I like my dream. 820 00:43:41,118 --> 00:43:42,700 - Then you are mad. 821 00:43:42,703 --> 00:43:45,161 This is your world. 822 00:43:45,164 --> 00:43:47,280 I am your world. 823 00:43:50,294 --> 00:43:53,958 (playful keyboard music) 824 00:43:56,133 --> 00:43:58,795 - [Narrator] Our last rendezvous, Patrick's Roadhouse, 825 00:43:58,844 --> 00:44:01,586 on the edge of the Pacific Ocean. 826 00:44:02,473 --> 00:44:05,716 I assumed that this was another piece of McGoohan mischief. 827 00:44:05,726 --> 00:44:09,390 This was his place, his life, and his story. 828 00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:12,438 We talked again about how this day should go. 829 00:44:12,441 --> 00:44:15,934 Inside, I noticed the joke menu. 830 00:44:16,362 --> 00:44:19,195 "Two choices: Take it, or leave it." 831 00:44:20,032 --> 00:44:24,868 Obviously, that was going to be the Special of the Day. 832 00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:27,453 We followed Patrick up into the Hollywood Hills, 833 00:44:27,498 --> 00:44:30,081 high above the smog that squatted on the city 834 00:44:30,084 --> 00:44:32,416 that was now his home. 835 00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,127 This is where he wanted to relax and speak. 836 00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:37,667 This time, about the team that helped him 837 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,167 to realise his dream. 838 00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:43,177 (The Prisoner theme) 839 00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:45,637 - [Number Six] Where am 1? 840 00:44:46,892 --> 00:44:50,476 - [Number Two] In the Village. 841 00:44:50,562 --> 00:44:53,805 (sprightly symphonic music) 842 00:44:59,738 --> 00:45:03,481 (buzzing of door) 843 00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:08,490 (sinister chiming) 844 00:45:08,539 --> 00:45:10,871 - [McGoohan] David Tomblin, we'd become great friends 845 00:45:10,874 --> 00:45:14,162 on the Danger Man thing, he was First Assistant Director on that. 846 00:45:14,169 --> 00:45:17,628 And then I needed him closer to me when we started 847 00:45:17,631 --> 00:45:21,249 doing The Prisoner so he, in fact, produced it 848 00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:25,845 and co-supervised the scripts with George Markstein, 849 00:45:25,931 --> 00:45:29,265 who was brought in as Script Supervisor. 850 00:45:29,268 --> 00:45:30,929 - [Number Six] Who are you? 851 00:45:30,978 --> 00:45:32,594 - [MacGoohan] Then, of course, there was Bernard Williams, 852 00:45:32,646 --> 00:45:36,856 who was our Production Manager, and an extraordinary young man 853 00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,484 He has gone on to much bigger and better things, 854 00:45:40,487 --> 00:45:43,070 I hope; he worked for Stanley Kubrick for a long time. 855 00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:46,611 (unearthly, eerie music) 856 00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:50,449 Our Art Director, Jack Shampan, again, family. 857 00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:56,784 A man that you couldn't stop working - whatever time 858 00:45:56,795 --> 00:45:58,832 you got to the studio, if you got there at six o' clock, 859 00:45:58,839 --> 00:46:00,750 you thought you were early, he'd been there 860 00:46:00,799 --> 00:46:03,086 half an hour before, hunting around, trying to find 861 00:46:03,135 --> 00:46:05,593 little pieces to fit into this set or the other set, to make them 862 00:46:05,637 --> 00:46:09,426 full of the character that he did so well. 863 00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,470 - [Narrator] In 1983 I was lucky enough to interview 864 00:46:11,477 --> 00:46:14,265 Jack Shampan at Pinewood Studios. 865 00:46:14,271 --> 00:46:16,854 Along with Patrick's most valued collaborator, 866 00:46:16,899 --> 00:46:18,435 David Tomblin. 867 00:46:18,442 --> 00:46:20,604 Two men central to the conception and realisation 868 00:46:20,611 --> 00:46:22,193 of The Prisoner. 869 00:46:22,196 --> 00:46:24,233 Men Patrick had referred to affectionately 870 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,855 as "the lads". 871 00:46:25,866 --> 00:46:29,484 - You and Pat had already got a sort of a visual 872 00:46:29,578 --> 00:46:32,696 feeling about the place - not in detail - 873 00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:36,745 of what the sets should be, to suit the... 874 00:46:36,877 --> 00:46:39,585 - It was influenced very heavily by Portmeirion itself. 875 00:46:40,214 --> 00:46:43,502 - Yes, but Portmeirion, as you know, is Mediterranean 876 00:46:43,550 --> 00:46:44,790 architecture. - Mmhmm. 877 00:46:44,843 --> 00:46:47,710 Whereas when we came indoors, 878 00:46:47,805 --> 00:46:51,014 it was all way out, futuristic, almost going back to the days 879 00:46:51,058 --> 00:46:53,766 of Fritz Lang, you know, and M, you know; 880 00:46:54,144 --> 00:46:59,480 Everything was very stylised, and symbolic. 881 00:46:59,733 --> 00:47:01,019 - Where can I make a call? 882 00:47:01,068 --> 00:47:02,775 - Well there's a phone box around the corner. 883 00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:04,106 - Thank you. 884 00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:11,534 (ominous music) 885 00:47:21,213 --> 00:47:23,454 (electronic buzzing) 886 00:47:23,465 --> 00:47:24,455 (high pitched buzz) 887 00:47:24,466 --> 00:47:25,877 - [Female operator] Number, please. 888 00:47:25,884 --> 00:47:27,750 - What exchange is this? 889 00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:28,876 - [Operator] Number, please. 890 00:47:28,887 --> 00:47:30,798 - I want to make a call-- - You could call locally, 891 00:47:30,889 --> 00:47:32,095 what is your number, sir? 892 00:47:33,141 --> 00:47:34,472 - Haven't got a number. 893 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,142 - [Operator] No number, no call. 894 00:47:36,228 --> 00:47:38,469 (low buzz of dead line) 895 00:47:40,357 --> 00:47:43,224 - I had never written before, and Patrick 896 00:47:43,235 --> 00:47:47,194 came in one day and said, "I've seen Lew, we've 897 00:47:47,197 --> 00:47:49,063 "got the money, we got the series." 898 00:47:49,074 --> 00:47:51,566 I said, "Oh, great... what series is that?" 899 00:47:51,743 --> 00:47:53,404 He said, "Well, you know what we talked about 900 00:47:53,412 --> 00:47:55,619 all those years", and so on and so forth. So, 901 00:47:55,914 --> 00:47:58,872 he said "Write the first story." 902 00:47:58,917 --> 00:48:00,703 So I said, "I've never written before." 903 00:48:00,711 --> 00:48:02,201 He said, "Well, you'd better start writing." 904 00:48:02,254 --> 00:48:04,211 So I got hold of George Markstein, 905 00:48:04,339 --> 00:48:06,330 I dragged him in the room, and we sat in there 906 00:48:06,425 --> 00:48:10,965 for some long time and we came up with.. Arrival. 907 00:48:11,221 --> 00:48:14,384 I gave it to Patrick, who read it, got very excited by it, 908 00:48:14,933 --> 00:48:17,516 and then he began to add touches. 909 00:48:17,644 --> 00:48:19,555 He began to stylise it, and 910 00:48:19,563 --> 00:48:23,477 it took on a really quite different look. 911 00:48:23,483 --> 00:48:27,272 And he was going sort of over there, 912 00:48:27,279 --> 00:48:29,691 and I was trying to keep it over here. 913 00:48:29,740 --> 00:48:31,071 And between the two forces, 914 00:48:31,074 --> 00:48:34,283 it ended up as it ended up, really. 915 00:48:34,328 --> 00:48:38,322 And then my uncle here, put his fingers in the pie, 916 00:48:38,415 --> 00:48:42,158 and that's how it all... - Made the thing look visual. 917 00:48:42,419 --> 00:48:45,332 - Being the man he is and being the person I try to be, 918 00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:47,621 we put everything into it. 919 00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:50,125 All our time, in fact, we worked seven days a week, 920 00:48:50,218 --> 00:48:53,961 16 hours a day, and tried to make every episode 921 00:48:54,765 --> 00:48:57,382 really 1000 per cent. 922 00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:01,393 I think it took me personally six months 923 00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:03,979 to recover, before I felt human... 924 00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:08,643 and probably took Patrick longer. 925 00:49:08,654 --> 00:49:10,645 But Jack never had that problem, ‘cause he's 926 00:49:10,739 --> 00:49:15,028 - a very resilient young man. - Yeah. (both chuckling) 927 00:49:19,122 --> 00:49:24,538 - He was conscious of not to make himself feel... 928 00:49:27,130 --> 00:49:29,462 it was a one-man show. 929 00:49:29,549 --> 00:49:32,462 He did not want that. 930 00:49:33,929 --> 00:49:36,796 He loved it, he loved the process. 931 00:49:36,807 --> 00:49:38,639 He loved these people. 932 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,228 It was the best feeling in the world and I know 933 00:49:44,231 --> 00:49:47,690 he couldn't wait to get in and go to work. 934 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,152 He loved being on the set. 935 00:49:55,158 --> 00:49:59,447 He loved the team around him. 936 00:49:59,955 --> 00:50:05,416 He loved when it was good, when it was really good, 937 00:50:05,961 --> 00:50:10,250 and you feel like all your juices are going. 938 00:50:10,716 --> 00:50:11,922 He loved that. 939 00:50:15,762 --> 00:50:20,097 I think it was hard when it stopped, actually. 940 00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:20,931 Yeah. 941 00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:25,394 (wind howling) 942 00:50:26,565 --> 00:50:28,681 - [Narrator] A main architect of the series 943 00:50:28,734 --> 00:50:31,271 was Script Editor, George Markstein, who not only 944 00:50:31,278 --> 00:50:33,485 had a serious falling out with McGoohan over 945 00:50:33,488 --> 00:50:37,152 its drift away from espionage and into psychology, 946 00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:40,738 but would later claim that the idea for The Prisoner was his. 947 00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:44,447 But today, McGoohan was in generous mode. 948 00:50:45,375 --> 00:50:46,206 Almost. 949 00:50:47,252 --> 00:50:51,371 - George brought writers with a particular bent of mind. 950 00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:55,712 They weren't Danger Man writers, none of them were. 951 00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:00,008 They needed this sort of stylistic, futuristic thing, 952 00:51:00,015 --> 00:51:02,097 and he knew a number of them and brought them in, 953 00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:03,807 and I'm grateful to him for that. 954 00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:09,105 First, they didn't jump straight into the Prisoner mould 955 00:51:09,149 --> 00:51:11,732 and say, "Well, George has talked to us, we're going 956 00:51:11,777 --> 00:51:15,270 "to write a script, a Danger Man script, fine." 957 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,567 But a Prisoner script, a little different, 958 00:51:17,657 --> 00:51:19,443 so George had a technique which worked extremely well. 959 00:51:19,451 --> 00:51:21,362 He'd take them out to the best restaurants in London, 960 00:51:21,411 --> 00:51:23,698 wine and dine them, and I don't know what he did, 961 00:51:23,872 --> 00:51:27,786 maybe he force-fed them into a Prisoner concept 962 00:51:27,793 --> 00:51:31,036 but whatever it was, it worked. 963 00:51:31,463 --> 00:51:34,751 - What I think was maybe difficult, 964 00:51:34,758 --> 00:51:39,719 was that these directors and writers coming in 965 00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:42,888 from a couple of other shows on television 966 00:51:42,891 --> 00:51:47,306 at the time, and they think, "Oh, we're gonna do a spy, 967 00:51:47,312 --> 00:51:49,428 "this is a spy show, 968 00:51:49,439 --> 00:51:51,771 "we heard what the premise is, it's a secret agent 969 00:51:51,817 --> 00:51:54,275 "who wants to retire. 970 00:51:54,277 --> 00:51:58,566 "And each episode is going to revolve around that." 971 00:51:58,573 --> 00:52:03,363 So that was the premise, the simple, simple premise. 972 00:52:03,995 --> 00:52:07,283 But then what happened after that, 973 00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:10,499 it was like a tree, the branches, 974 00:52:11,002 --> 00:52:14,211 it then stimulated all sorts 975 00:52:14,339 --> 00:52:16,922 of possibilities. 976 00:52:18,552 --> 00:52:24,013 And then what happened... the series became something else. 977 00:52:26,601 --> 00:52:27,932 - [Narrator] Maybe we could even talk about that 978 00:52:27,978 --> 00:52:32,017 "something else", now that this was a very different Patrick. 979 00:52:32,524 --> 00:52:34,310 He seemed to have relaxed. 980 00:52:34,317 --> 00:52:36,354 Having received a brutal crash course from him 981 00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:41,481 on how to interview, this was also a very different me. 982 00:52:43,785 --> 00:52:46,777 - Of course, I always... 983 00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:50,076 always loved fairy tales, I imagine most of us do, 984 00:52:50,083 --> 00:52:52,825 we like fantasy, our myths, 985 00:52:52,836 --> 00:53:00,084 our legends, and our belief that the impossible is possible, 986 00:53:00,177 --> 00:53:03,545 that anything can happen within the mind. 987 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,388 (Rover shrieks) 988 00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:14,062 It had something of a fairy tale about it. 989 00:53:14,065 --> 00:53:18,309 More than that, to be absolutely specific, 990 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,402 it was an allegory. 991 00:53:20,405 --> 00:53:24,239 An allegory, I think, is defined as a story in which 992 00:53:24,242 --> 00:53:28,657 things, people, places, happenings 993 00:53:28,705 --> 00:53:33,495 conceal a reason... (muted siren wail) 994 00:53:34,669 --> 00:53:36,080 ...or a symbolism. 995 00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:41,457 (ominous western music) 996 00:53:49,392 --> 00:53:52,054 One might say was it too outrageous 997 00:53:52,062 --> 00:53:55,646 to have a western story, and a cowboy movie 998 00:53:55,649 --> 00:53:57,310 in the middle of it, but I don't think so at all. 999 00:53:57,317 --> 00:53:59,854 Because after all, we introduced into it 1000 00:53:59,861 --> 00:54:02,228 cardboard cutouts of various characters 1001 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,527 and they came back from their little meander into 1002 00:54:05,575 --> 00:54:09,193 the six guns and the spurs of the cowboy story 1003 00:54:09,204 --> 00:54:12,287 back to their numbers in the Village. 1004 00:54:14,042 --> 00:54:15,874 - Interesting that he could separate fact 1005 00:54:15,877 --> 00:54:17,709 from fantasy so quickly. 1006 00:54:17,712 --> 00:54:23,674 - So fantasy, certainly. Fairy tales, yes. Allegory, always. 1007 00:54:23,843 --> 00:54:25,299 - Why do you care? 1008 00:54:26,638 --> 00:54:29,676 - And I think it was particularly crystallised 1009 00:54:29,683 --> 00:54:32,425 in what is my favourite episode, which is 1010 00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:33,846 Once Upon a Time. 1011 00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:37,221 A very fairy-tale time. 1012 00:54:37,232 --> 00:54:39,064 And because... 1013 00:54:39,067 --> 00:54:42,401 a little of that was autobiographical. 1014 00:54:42,404 --> 00:54:45,146 So I suppose I got that out of my system. 1015 00:54:45,156 --> 00:54:47,773 Whatever you call that, there's a name for it I suppose, 1016 00:54:47,784 --> 00:54:49,024 but I got it out. 1017 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,616 - You will take six. 1018 00:54:52,205 --> 00:54:53,320 - Six? 1019 00:54:53,540 --> 00:54:55,076 - Of the best. 1020 00:54:55,125 --> 00:54:56,832 - I'm not guilty, sir. 1021 00:54:57,002 --> 00:54:57,582 -10. 1022 00:54:57,669 --> 00:54:58,909 - [Number Six] 12. - What? 1023 00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:00,536 -12, sir. 1024 00:55:00,922 --> 00:55:01,912 So that I can remember. 1025 00:55:01,923 --> 00:55:05,041 (ominous organ music) 1026 00:55:06,344 --> 00:55:10,463 - [Narrator] Once Upon a Time was also my favourite episode. 1027 00:55:10,473 --> 00:55:13,090 An Oedipal battle between McGoohan's Number Six 1028 00:55:13,184 --> 00:55:15,050 and Leo McKern's Number Two. 1029 00:55:15,186 --> 00:55:17,427 A physical and mental struggle for supremacy 1030 00:55:17,439 --> 00:55:20,852 all the way from the cradle to the grave. 1031 00:55:22,068 --> 00:55:24,935 - The set was called the Embryo Room 1032 00:55:24,946 --> 00:55:26,607 for obvious reasons, 1033 00:55:27,824 --> 00:55:33,661 and it was this head-on clash between two people. 1034 00:55:34,331 --> 00:55:36,743 It was do or die. 1035 00:55:37,751 --> 00:55:39,241 And Leo's rhythm's are so terrific, 1036 00:55:39,252 --> 00:55:42,745 you can throw out something... a quite unexpected inflection, 1037 00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:44,417 and he will immediately pick it up, 1038 00:55:44,466 --> 00:55:46,207 and come back with a new one of his own. 1039 00:55:46,259 --> 00:55:46,839 - Jacky. 1040 00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:47,716 - Shall have. 1041 00:55:47,802 --> 00:55:49,793 - A new master... - And you build upon that. 1042 00:55:49,804 --> 00:55:50,760 - Master. - Jacky. 1043 00:55:50,805 --> 00:55:51,294 - Master. 1044 00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:53,009 - Jacky. - It becomes a sort of 1045 00:55:53,016 --> 00:55:54,427 rhythmical duet. 1046 00:55:54,476 --> 00:55:55,261 - Master. - Jacky. 1047 00:55:55,310 --> 00:55:56,015 - Master. - Mother. 1048 00:55:56,061 --> 00:55:58,143 - Master. - Father. 1049 00:55:59,814 --> 00:56:02,476 - You knew that it was going to be hammer and tongs, 1050 00:56:02,484 --> 00:56:04,851 I mean, we were dear friends, 1051 00:56:04,861 --> 00:56:09,071 but we couldn't be dear friends in the midst of the show. 1052 00:56:09,282 --> 00:56:11,319 (screaming) 1053 00:56:11,326 --> 00:56:13,033 - (screaming) - All right, boy. 1054 00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:14,655 - All right, boy? - Yes. 1055 00:56:15,955 --> 00:56:17,161 (groaning) 1056 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,621 - [Narrator] Patrick had demanded that I should 1057 00:56:22,629 --> 00:56:24,540 look him straight in the eye. 1058 00:56:24,547 --> 00:56:25,787 So now I did. 1059 00:56:25,799 --> 00:56:28,086 I asked him about poor Leo McKern. 1060 00:56:28,093 --> 00:56:31,006 - Leo, on Once Upon a Time, this is what you're 1061 00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:32,465 - trying to get out of me, isn't it? - (quiet laughter) 1062 00:56:32,514 --> 00:56:35,882 Leo, on Once Upon a Time, the pressure was... he'd just 1063 00:56:35,892 --> 00:56:38,634 come from a very demanding role in the theatre, 1064 00:56:38,645 --> 00:56:41,763 and he was very tired when he came on, 1065 00:56:41,773 --> 00:56:44,310 he had this sort of... the pressure was so much on him, 1066 00:56:44,317 --> 00:56:49,153 that he really couldn't work for a couple of days. 1067 00:56:49,155 --> 00:56:50,862 - [Narrator] In some circles, you might call that 1068 00:56:50,865 --> 00:56:53,778 a nervous collapse, or a breakdown; something McGoohan 1069 00:56:53,785 --> 00:56:59,280 had been less evasive about in his 1977 Canadian interview. 1070 00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:04,251 - Leo, one lunchtime, 1071 00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:08,422 went up to his dressing room, and I went to see the rushes, 1072 00:57:09,217 --> 00:57:11,083 and I knew he was tired. 1073 00:57:11,136 --> 00:57:13,343 I went up to the dressing room to tell him how 1074 00:57:13,346 --> 00:57:16,338 good I thought he'd been in the rushes, 1075 00:57:16,349 --> 00:57:19,467 and he was curled in the foetus position 1076 00:57:19,477 --> 00:57:21,844 on his couch there. 1077 00:57:21,896 --> 00:57:24,058 And he says, "Go away, go away." 1078 00:57:24,065 --> 00:57:26,557 He says, "I don't want to see you again.” 1079 00:57:26,568 --> 00:57:27,683 I said what are you talking about? 1080 00:57:27,777 --> 00:57:29,313 He says, "I've just ordered two doctors," he said. 1081 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,527 "And they're coming over soon as possible." 1082 00:57:31,573 --> 00:57:33,405 He says, "Go away." 1083 00:57:33,408 --> 00:57:35,069 He'd gone. He'd cracked. 1084 00:57:35,118 --> 00:57:36,404 Which is very interesting. 1085 00:57:36,411 --> 00:57:37,742 There was terrific pressure, you see? 1086 00:57:37,745 --> 00:57:38,860 I know you. 1087 00:57:38,872 --> 00:57:39,862 - You're smart. 1088 00:57:39,873 --> 00:57:40,863 - In my mind. 1089 00:57:40,874 --> 00:57:41,864 - Yeah. 1090 00:57:41,875 --> 00:57:43,707 - In my mind, you're smart! 1091 00:57:43,877 --> 00:57:45,163 - Why did you resign? 1092 00:57:45,170 --> 00:57:46,126 - Yeah, you see? 1093 00:57:46,171 --> 00:57:47,127 - Why did you resign? 1094 00:57:47,172 --> 00:57:48,128 - You know who you are? 1095 00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:49,004 - Who am I? 1096 00:57:49,007 --> 00:57:49,838 - A fool? 1097 00:57:49,841 --> 00:57:50,672 - What? - Yes. 1098 00:57:50,758 --> 00:57:51,964 - No, don't. - Yes. An idiot. 1099 00:57:52,093 --> 00:57:54,050 No-- I'll kill you. 1100 00:57:54,304 --> 00:57:55,260 - I'll die. 1101 00:57:55,346 --> 00:57:56,461 - You're dead. 1102 00:57:58,725 --> 00:58:00,181 - [Narrator] This may be the only surviving 1103 00:58:00,226 --> 00:58:03,218 material evidence of what had happened offscreen. 1104 00:58:03,313 --> 00:58:06,146 A photo of McKern, signed by Patrick, with love, 1105 00:58:06,149 --> 00:58:09,687 and some of those all too familiar numbers. 1106 00:58:11,196 --> 00:58:13,233 Patrick's script for Once Upon a Time 1107 00:58:13,406 --> 00:58:14,396 was full of them. 1108 00:58:14,991 --> 00:58:17,483 How did he go about writing for the series? 1109 00:58:17,535 --> 00:58:19,276 - The writing of the script? 1110 00:58:19,287 --> 00:58:20,903 Well, any of the scripts that I wrote for that, 1111 00:58:20,914 --> 00:58:23,531 I write very fast, it churns around up here 1112 00:58:24,209 --> 00:58:25,665 for a long time, then I just have to... 1113 00:58:25,710 --> 00:58:27,667 When I attack it, 1114 00:58:28,087 --> 00:58:32,206 I have to go through, beat myself through to... 1115 00:58:32,217 --> 00:58:34,003 and then all of the three scripts that I wrote 1116 00:58:34,010 --> 00:58:36,627 for The Prisoner, each one was done in about 1117 00:58:36,638 --> 00:58:38,128 36 hours. 1118 00:58:38,139 --> 00:58:39,721 Once Upon a Time, 1119 00:58:39,724 --> 00:58:42,842 I think I wrote straight down. 1120 00:58:42,894 --> 00:58:44,976 I don't think I changed a word of that. 1121 00:58:44,979 --> 00:58:49,143 One, two, three, four, five. 1122 00:58:49,192 --> 00:58:50,853 Our property man, when he'd looked at it, he said, 1123 00:58:50,860 --> 00:58:52,021 "What idiot wrote this?", 1124 00:58:52,028 --> 00:58:54,941 you see, because there were four pages with nothing on it. 1125 00:58:55,114 --> 00:58:57,025 There was Leo, and there was me. 1126 00:58:57,033 --> 00:58:59,149 We used to write the character of me P, as for Prisoner. 1127 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,618 It was "Leo, P, Leo, P..." 1128 00:59:01,621 --> 00:59:03,157 And for all these pages, all they were saying was... 1129 00:59:03,164 --> 00:59:06,247 - Six, five, six, five, six, five 1130 00:59:06,334 --> 00:59:07,415 - Six and one, six-- - Five. 1131 00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:08,746 - Six and one, six-- - Five. 1132 00:59:08,795 --> 00:59:11,002 - Six, six, six of one, and one of six, 1133 00:59:11,047 --> 00:59:12,708 six over one, into six. 1134 00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:14,665 - [Number Two] Six of one, half dozen the other! 1135 00:59:14,717 --> 00:59:15,957 - Pop goes the weasel. 1136 00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:18,627 "Six, six, six, six, six, a one and a one, 1137 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,717 "and a dozen, and six, six..." 1138 00:59:20,765 --> 00:59:26,010 I don't blame the property master for saying - Mickey O'Toole, 1139 00:59:26,062 --> 00:59:28,429 who is a wicked Irishman with a great sense of humour - 1140 00:59:28,481 --> 00:59:32,475 he said "This rubbish here, whoever..?" Because I didn't have my own name on it, 1141 00:59:32,569 --> 00:59:34,685 the name I had on it when I sent it down onto the set, 1142 00:59:34,737 --> 00:59:36,148 because I knew I would be ridiculed, 1143 00:59:36,197 --> 00:59:40,065 was "Once Upon a Time by Archibald Schwartz." 1144 00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:42,366 So Mickey says, "This Archibald Schwartz..." (laughing) 1145 00:59:42,412 --> 00:59:45,154 -"...where did you find this guy?" - (laughter) 1146 00:59:45,206 --> 00:59:48,119 I said, "Trust me, he's a good lad, Mickey", 1147 00:59:48,167 --> 00:59:50,408 I said, "Trust me, he'll turn out to be all right." 1148 00:59:50,461 --> 00:59:53,078 Two, four, five! 1149 00:59:53,172 --> 00:59:54,378 - Six. - Five! 1150 00:59:54,424 --> 00:59:55,789 - Six! - Five! 1151 00:59:55,883 --> 00:59:57,590 Two, four, six. 1152 00:59:57,635 --> 00:59:59,876 (hushed) Five. That's me. 1153 00:59:59,971 --> 01:00:03,930 - Only Pat could've written those particular scripts. 1154 01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:05,841 And I think they're very good. 1155 01:00:05,852 --> 01:00:09,390 Sad to say. (laughter) 1156 01:00:09,397 --> 01:00:12,185 Yeah, he is a quite good writer, is Pat. 1157 01:00:12,191 --> 01:00:13,932 I wish I could act like he could write. 1158 01:00:16,571 --> 01:00:18,528 (tense music) 1159 01:00:18,573 --> 01:00:19,859 - [Narrator] Television writer Lewis Greifer 1160 01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:21,982 knew McGoohan well, and contributed a script 1161 01:00:21,993 --> 01:00:23,904 to the series. 1162 01:00:23,911 --> 01:00:26,152 When I interviewed him in 1983, 1163 01:00:26,164 --> 01:00:27,905 it seemed he knew about McGoohan's increasing 1164 01:00:27,915 --> 01:00:30,282 obsession with those numbers. 1165 01:00:31,711 --> 01:00:33,372 - Well, first of all, towards the end it was 1166 01:00:33,379 --> 01:00:35,461 totally dominated by Pat. 1167 01:00:37,050 --> 01:00:40,793 Directing, writing, producing, his whole concept, 1168 01:00:40,803 --> 01:00:42,760 I mean, that is a rare phenomenon, because 1169 01:00:42,764 --> 01:00:46,302 most television series are teamwork. 1170 01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:48,095 By now, Pat was the team. 1171 01:00:49,437 --> 01:00:51,599 He was taking the thing very seriously, frankly. 1172 01:00:51,606 --> 01:00:55,725 Too seriously, as far as I was concerned. 1173 01:00:55,777 --> 01:00:58,610 And this Number One and Number Two business was really 1174 01:00:58,613 --> 01:00:59,569 bugging him. 1175 01:01:01,032 --> 01:01:03,820 (eerie, unearthly music) 1176 01:01:03,826 --> 01:01:05,316 I had a personal relationship with Pat, 1177 01:01:05,328 --> 01:01:08,036 and he used to come around here occasionally and say, 1178 01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:09,871 "You are Number Two." 1179 01:01:09,874 --> 01:01:10,955 (chuckling) 1180 01:01:10,958 --> 01:01:14,792 And my wife, I think was also number something or other. 1181 01:01:20,385 --> 01:01:21,170 Number Six. 1182 01:01:21,219 --> 01:01:22,960 Why is Number Six a likeable character? 1183 01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:24,426 Because he is fighting. 1184 01:01:24,722 --> 01:01:27,931 He's not accepting the situation meekly, 1185 01:01:28,059 --> 01:01:31,222 he's not a docile person, he's a man that says 1186 01:01:31,229 --> 01:01:32,685 something is going on! 1187 01:01:33,898 --> 01:01:36,765 And I'd like to know what it is! 1188 01:01:37,652 --> 01:01:42,863 Pat is very much his own person, that's his characteristic. 1189 01:01:45,076 --> 01:01:48,785 Pat doesn't want to be lovable. 1190 01:01:48,788 --> 01:01:52,952 Pat's got no intention of having people love him. 1191 01:01:52,959 --> 01:01:54,541 - [Narrator] But the Patrick now sitting with us 1192 01:01:54,544 --> 01:01:58,082 on that hill above LA was lovable, generous, 1193 01:01:58,131 --> 01:01:59,747 and surprisingly honest. 1194 01:01:59,757 --> 01:02:02,215 Time to ask him about Number One. 1195 01:02:02,260 --> 01:02:04,968 - Yes, I know exactly what you mean by that, 1196 01:02:05,012 --> 01:02:07,219 who was going to be Number One? 1197 01:02:07,223 --> 01:02:09,055 All right, well, I'll level with you on that. 1198 01:02:09,183 --> 01:02:10,844 Nobody knew that. 1199 01:02:10,935 --> 01:02:12,221 Nobody knew that. 1200 01:02:13,312 --> 01:02:16,270 First person to discover that was after I'd dragged 1201 01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,857 myself out of the office and it was complete 1202 01:02:18,860 --> 01:02:22,979 after its 36-hours, childbirth thing, you know, 1203 01:02:23,030 --> 01:02:24,316 a lot of labour... 1204 01:02:25,283 --> 01:02:28,241 We had so much that we had the scripts run off 1205 01:02:28,244 --> 01:02:30,531 very quickly, again, another thing, so I got a copy 1206 01:02:30,580 --> 01:02:34,244 of this thing, and before I caught up a couple of hours' 1207 01:02:34,250 --> 01:02:37,368 sleep before working on Monday morning, 1208 01:02:37,420 --> 01:02:40,833 I sat with David, and we're having some tea or something 1209 01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,673 someplace, some tea room or something. 1210 01:02:43,676 --> 01:02:46,384 I said, you'd better read this. 1211 01:02:46,429 --> 01:02:48,011 And gave it to him. 1212 01:02:49,223 --> 01:02:53,137 And I just sat at another table and sipped tea. 1213 01:02:54,854 --> 01:02:58,848 Until he'd finished, then he gave it back to me. 1214 01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:01,232 And he said I thought it might be you in the end. 1215 01:03:01,319 --> 01:03:03,435 (snorts with laughter) 1216 01:03:03,446 --> 01:03:04,902 ‘Cause there's nowhere else to go! 1217 01:03:04,906 --> 01:03:07,068 Who could it be? 1218 01:03:07,074 --> 01:03:08,235 You know? 1219 01:03:08,284 --> 01:03:10,696 I wasn't going ring up Sean, or Roger, or any 1220 01:03:10,745 --> 01:03:13,157 of these fellas, I mean, you know, who could it be? 1221 01:03:13,247 --> 01:03:14,863 I don't know who it could be. 1222 01:03:14,957 --> 01:03:17,870 (digital chirping) 1223 01:03:20,755 --> 01:03:23,793 - [Narrator] Back in February 1968, this is the moment 1224 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,258 I'd waited 17 weeks for... 1225 01:03:27,678 --> 01:03:30,340 along with 17 million other people. 1226 01:03:30,348 --> 01:03:33,261 (digital chirping) 1227 01:03:39,232 --> 01:03:42,099 - 1 will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, 1228 01:03:42,109 --> 01:03:44,771 briefed, debriefed, or numbered. 1229 01:03:45,738 --> 01:03:48,696 I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, 1230 01:03:48,699 --> 01:03:51,361 briefed, debriefed, or numbered. 1231 01:03:52,495 --> 01:03:54,361 My life is my own. 1232 01:03:54,413 --> 01:03:58,156 I, 1,1, 1,1, I... (thunderous crashing) 1233 01:04:01,879 --> 01:04:05,543 (rising in pitch and speed) LLLLLLL 1234 01:04:05,967 --> 01:04:10,006 LLLLLLLL (breaking into maniacal laughter) 1235 01:04:10,096 --> 01:04:12,758 - Personally, I saw that coming quite a long way away. 1236 01:04:12,807 --> 01:04:16,220 I could see that he was really moving in that direction, 1237 01:04:16,227 --> 01:04:21,518 he really was getting very paranoid towards the end. 1238 01:04:21,524 --> 01:04:26,815 - [Man] We thought you would feel happier as yourself. 1239 01:04:27,363 --> 01:04:30,572 - The inevitability of his thinking was 1240 01:04:31,576 --> 01:04:34,068 the schizophrenic answer, you know, 1241 01:04:34,078 --> 01:04:36,490 Number One and Number Six are going to be the same. 1242 01:04:36,539 --> 01:04:39,782 That was the pressure the series was going towards. 1243 01:04:39,792 --> 01:04:41,783 Again, there was nobody wrote down things on the 1244 01:04:41,794 --> 01:04:44,707 piece of paper, I think it was Pat. 1245 01:04:45,798 --> 01:04:49,086 Actually moving in that direction, correctly. 1246 01:04:49,135 --> 01:04:50,375 Correctly. 1247 01:04:50,386 --> 01:04:52,218 And by that time, toward the end of the series, 1248 01:04:52,221 --> 01:04:53,882 it was Pat's series, totally, 1249 01:04:53,890 --> 01:04:55,631 I mean he had his own concept. 1250 01:04:55,641 --> 01:05:00,181 And yes, I wasn't surprised, because, as a matter 1251 01:05:00,187 --> 01:05:02,975 of fact, quite a long way from that, I thought 1252 01:05:02,982 --> 01:05:05,815 to myself, when are we going to get... 1253 01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:07,396 "Number One is me?" 1254 01:05:07,820 --> 01:05:10,528 (phone ringing) 1255 01:05:11,574 --> 01:05:12,405 Oh. 1256 01:05:15,244 --> 01:05:16,780 Hello? 1257 01:05:16,787 --> 01:05:18,027 - What is the most evil thing on Earth? 1258 01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:18,870 Is it... 1259 01:05:20,416 --> 01:05:24,455 Is it jealously, is it hate, is it revenge, 1260 01:05:24,462 --> 01:05:25,748 is it the bomb? 1261 01:05:26,631 --> 01:05:27,837 What is it? 1262 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,377 When one really searches, it's only one thing, 1263 01:05:30,426 --> 01:05:33,088 it's the evil part of oneself. 1264 01:05:34,096 --> 01:05:38,636 The most evil thing that I could put in there, 1265 01:05:39,226 --> 01:05:42,514 behind those masks, first of all the black and white mask, 1266 01:05:42,563 --> 01:05:44,975 then the mask of the ape, 1267 01:05:45,524 --> 01:05:48,937 and behind that the grinning, evil face, 1268 01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,688 I hope, of myself, just for a split second, 1269 01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:54,606 and then you see it once more, just for a split second, 1270 01:05:54,617 --> 01:05:57,484 and I can't blame audiences saying I wonder what's 1271 01:05:57,495 --> 01:05:59,736 happening, what's going on? 1272 01:06:03,417 --> 01:06:06,284 If that was a cheat, then the whole thing's a cheat. 1273 01:06:06,295 --> 01:06:08,627 Because he could've got out. 1274 01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:12,335 I'd be very, very angry and disappointed 1275 01:06:12,343 --> 01:06:14,710 if they hadn't watched, if they hadn't jammed 1276 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,884 the switchboards at ATV, I would've been outraged. 1277 01:06:18,975 --> 01:06:22,684 I would've slunk around for years with my tail between my legs, 1278 01:06:22,770 --> 01:06:25,307 instead of which, it was just terrific; loved it. 1279 01:06:25,481 --> 01:06:27,017 And if I can do that again, I'll do it again. 1280 01:06:27,024 --> 01:06:28,355 God love 'em, watch it. 1281 01:06:28,359 --> 01:06:30,896 Millions of them, and be outraged. 1282 01:06:31,070 --> 01:06:32,560 As long as people feel something. 1283 01:06:32,571 --> 01:06:35,233 That's the great thing. It's when they're walking around 1284 01:06:35,241 --> 01:06:37,608 not thinking, and not feeling, that's tough, 1285 01:06:37,660 --> 01:06:40,368 that's where all the dangerous stuff is, ‘cause when 1286 01:06:40,371 --> 01:06:42,328 you get a mob like that, you can turn them into 1287 01:06:42,373 --> 01:06:44,410 the sort of gang that Hitler had. 1288 01:06:44,458 --> 01:06:45,789 We don't want that. 1289 01:06:45,793 --> 01:06:47,375 We want people to say, "Hey, now wait a minute, 1290 01:06:47,378 --> 01:06:48,789 "you don't do that to me! 1291 01:06:48,796 --> 01:06:52,164 "I'm gonna call Lord Grade about that." 1292 01:06:52,174 --> 01:06:55,633 - Well, it wasn't very popular, 1293 01:06:56,303 --> 01:07:03,425 and the... you know, the switchboard at the network 1294 01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:06,307 just went crazy, crazy, crazy. 1295 01:07:07,273 --> 01:07:10,857 But in our household, 1296 01:07:10,985 --> 01:07:16,480 I just think that my father, he felt... 1297 01:07:16,866 --> 01:07:21,485 a little self-conscious, and probably that he shouldn't go 1298 01:07:21,579 --> 01:07:24,196 walking down the street for a couple of days. 1299 01:07:24,331 --> 01:07:27,619 People were expecting an answer, 1300 01:07:27,668 --> 01:07:30,000 and they were expecting a conclusion. 1301 01:07:30,046 --> 01:07:35,291 And they were expecting to see a face, for Number One. 1302 01:07:35,593 --> 01:07:38,255 Well, that was never gonna happen. 1303 01:07:38,345 --> 01:07:39,710 Never, never gonna happen. 1304 01:07:39,722 --> 01:07:44,216 And I have to say that I thought he was brave, 1305 01:07:44,226 --> 01:07:47,469 and courageous, because he went for it. 1306 01:07:48,439 --> 01:07:52,933 And he went for an ending that has longevity. 1307 01:07:52,943 --> 01:07:57,232 - I wanted to have controversy, argument. 1308 01:07:57,239 --> 01:07:59,606 Fights, discussions. 1309 01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:02,442 People in anger, waving fists in my face, 1310 01:08:02,495 --> 01:08:03,155 saying "How dare you?" 1311 01:08:03,245 --> 01:08:05,862 "Why don't you do more secret agents that we can understand?" 1312 01:08:06,082 --> 01:08:08,198 I was delighted with that reaction, I think 1313 01:08:08,209 --> 01:08:09,950 it's a very good one. 1314 01:08:12,254 --> 01:08:14,245 I think I was fortunate ever to 1315 01:08:14,465 --> 01:08:18,208 get out of England alive. (discordant music) 1316 01:08:18,260 --> 01:08:19,967 I imagine a lot of people watched the last 1317 01:08:19,970 --> 01:08:21,586 episode and expected a sort of conventional 1318 01:08:21,597 --> 01:08:25,886 end, and the evil person personified as the Number One, 1319 01:08:25,935 --> 01:08:28,017 that we'd never seen, this mystery character 1320 01:08:28,020 --> 01:08:30,352 that brooded over everything. 1321 01:08:30,356 --> 01:08:32,973 What was he gonna be like, what was he, a Jekyll, 1322 01:08:33,067 --> 01:08:35,650 no, not a Jekyll-Hyde, no, I think they expected 1323 01:08:35,694 --> 01:08:40,404 more a sort of James Bond villain at the end. 1324 01:08:40,533 --> 01:08:44,447 And I think they felt that they'd been robbed 1325 01:08:44,620 --> 01:08:46,110 with what they got. 1326 01:08:46,205 --> 01:08:47,695 A lot did. 1327 01:08:47,706 --> 01:08:49,572 Though I would argue against that. 1328 01:08:49,583 --> 01:08:51,995 I don't think they were robbed, because going back 1329 01:08:52,002 --> 01:08:53,333 to the allegory, 1330 01:08:54,922 --> 01:08:56,663 which is what it was, 1331 01:08:57,758 --> 01:09:01,217 so you have to have an allegorical ending. 1332 01:09:02,555 --> 01:09:04,922 I mean, you can't have Sean Connery 1333 01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:08,008 looking at himself at the end, saying "I'm gonna kill you, mate." 1334 01:09:08,060 --> 01:09:09,801 (slips into Cockney accent) You know, you can't do that. 1335 01:09:09,854 --> 01:09:11,310 It don't work for James Bond. 1336 01:09:11,355 --> 01:09:14,438 There's not a lotta mystery in James Bond. 1337 01:09:14,483 --> 01:09:16,565 - I always wanted to know what was going to happen 1338 01:09:16,652 --> 01:09:18,188 with the balloon. 1339 01:09:18,571 --> 01:09:21,984 But... (chuckling) nobody could tell me. 1340 01:09:22,658 --> 01:09:25,150 (whining noise; echoing jolt) 1341 01:09:25,369 --> 01:09:28,703 - [Narrator] Rover the balloon died in Fall Out. 1342 01:09:28,706 --> 01:09:30,617 The series had come a long way since the filming 1343 01:09:30,624 --> 01:09:34,242 of Arrival in Portmeirion, 18 months before. 1344 01:09:34,253 --> 01:09:37,996 We had come a long way too, today without any lights. 1345 01:09:38,007 --> 01:09:40,044 Just enough time to ask Patrick about The Prisoner's 1346 01:09:40,050 --> 01:09:42,587 continuing popularity, even though by now, 1347 01:09:42,595 --> 01:09:44,882 he had become little more than a silhouette 1348 01:09:44,889 --> 01:09:47,802 against the darkening LA skyline. 1349 01:09:47,808 --> 01:09:49,845 - Incredibly long life, well, you see there was 1350 01:09:49,894 --> 01:09:52,727 a thing that I'd always felt, 1351 01:09:52,813 --> 01:09:55,225 that it was sort of designed for 1984. 1352 01:09:55,316 --> 01:09:58,559 And it's ironic in some ways that it's running 1353 01:09:58,569 --> 01:10:00,401 in England again. 1354 01:10:00,404 --> 01:10:06,400 The tail end of '83, and I believe into '84. You know, 1355 01:10:06,493 --> 01:10:09,281 sort of Two Thousand-and-something, I don't know, maybe 1356 01:10:09,288 --> 01:10:13,577 there'll be one or two people who might want to see it then. 1357 01:10:13,584 --> 01:10:17,202 (The Prisoner theme music) 1358 01:10:20,132 --> 01:10:23,215 But the thing one must never do, which is, in some way - 1359 01:10:23,260 --> 01:10:24,341 I'll say this - 1360 01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:30,094 in some ways, maybe I shouldn't be doing this, 1361 01:10:30,434 --> 01:10:35,804 talking to you, and to the people who are going to view it, 1362 01:10:35,898 --> 01:10:38,481 and hear it; to explain The Prisoner. 1363 01:10:38,567 --> 01:10:43,437 because in myself, I am still getting new interpretations, 1364 01:10:43,489 --> 01:10:48,234 and I feel fortunate that in parts of it, 1365 01:10:48,369 --> 01:10:50,110 I hit lucky. 1366 01:10:50,621 --> 01:10:51,611 Be seeing you. 1367 01:10:51,664 --> 01:10:55,783 Those ideas, I hope, one can play with them forever. 1368 01:10:55,876 --> 01:10:59,494 The sky's the limit... isn't it? 1369 01:11:00,756 --> 01:11:04,124 I think the sky is the limit. 1370 01:11:04,718 --> 01:11:06,709 Be seeing you. 1371 01:11:07,596 --> 01:11:09,132 I hope. 1372 01:11:20,109 --> 01:11:23,227 (music: Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star) [Narrator] End of the day, 1373 01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:27,689 end of our final interview, and the end of my trip. 1374 01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:30,442 Patrick seemed pleased with this last performance, 1375 01:11:30,494 --> 01:11:33,452 or maybe he was just relieved that it was all over. 1376 01:11:33,497 --> 01:11:34,453 For now. 1377 01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:38,708 As a fan turned rookie interviewer, 1378 01:11:38,711 --> 01:11:42,249 I was happy not to be returning to London empty-handed. 1379 01:11:42,256 --> 01:11:45,123 But mostly, I was happy because I'd actually met 1380 01:11:45,217 --> 01:11:46,799 Number Six.... 1381 01:11:46,844 --> 01:11:49,757 Once Upon a Time. 1382 01:11:54,935 --> 01:11:56,596 We later flew to Paris to show Patrick 1383 01:11:56,603 --> 01:11:58,219 a cut of the documentary. 1384 01:11:58,564 --> 01:12:01,556 He hated it so much that he yelled at us 1385 01:12:01,608 --> 01:12:04,942 the entire day, in various cafes across the city. 1386 01:12:05,988 --> 01:12:09,322 When he went back to LA, he made his own documentary, 1387 01:12:09,325 --> 01:12:12,113 sent it to us in London, and asked for that to be 1388 01:12:12,119 --> 01:12:13,280 shown instead. 1389 01:12:14,163 --> 01:12:16,245 The original of that film has been lost, 1390 01:12:16,498 --> 01:12:17,909 maybe forever. 1391 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,708 What you're about to see are pieces of a poor pirated 1392 01:12:20,794 --> 01:12:24,162 copy filmed off a television screen in Portmeirion. 1393 01:12:24,256 --> 01:12:27,123 # How many insects find their home 1394 01:12:27,259 --> 01:12:31,298 # In an English country garden? # 1395 01:12:31,388 --> 01:12:35,052 - Patrick's riposte to our film was typically mischievous. 1396 01:12:35,100 --> 01:12:36,886 He went to all the places we had been. 1397 01:12:37,019 --> 01:12:40,228 Santa Monica Beach, The Huntley Hotel. 1398 01:12:40,773 --> 01:12:44,812 He'd added music - Nana Mouskouri singing English folk songs - 1399 01:12:44,902 --> 01:12:47,769 and had his daughter Anne ask him the questions. 1400 01:12:52,201 --> 01:12:54,784 - "Be seeing you" has all sorts of connotations. 1401 01:12:54,828 --> 01:12:59,413 I mean, it can be a sort of "be seeing a friend", a girlfriend, a boyfriend, 1402 01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:03,038 "Be seeing you" with expectation of pleasant times ahead. 1403 01:13:03,295 --> 01:13:07,038 And it can be "seeing you", long journey, somebody going away. 1404 01:13:07,299 --> 01:13:09,586 And it can be a threat, "be seeing you". 1405 01:13:09,718 --> 01:13:12,005 And all sorts of things. 1406 01:13:12,012 --> 01:13:14,470 But mainly the thing about it here, 1407 01:13:14,515 --> 01:13:17,052 in the context of The Prisoner, was that 1408 01:13:17,059 --> 01:13:20,552 it was, "Be seeing you," meaning that there was this 1409 01:13:20,646 --> 01:13:22,762 constant surveillance, 1410 01:13:22,898 --> 01:13:26,562 that when you were asleep, when you were having your dreams, 1411 01:13:26,568 --> 01:13:29,026 someone was picking your dreams in your sleep. 1412 01:13:29,405 --> 01:13:32,648 (soft music) 1413 01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:38,824 # Early one morning just as the sun was rising 1414 01:13:38,831 --> 01:13:44,417 # I heard a young maid sing in the valley below 1415 01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:50,211 # Oh, don't deceive me, oh, never leave me 1416 01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:54,635 # How could you use a poor maiden so? # 1417 01:13:54,638 --> 01:13:56,049 - Did I have any fights in The Prisoner? 1418 01:13:56,140 --> 01:13:57,255 Oh, yes. 1419 01:13:57,599 --> 01:14:01,308 We had a couple of humdingers, and I think 1420 01:14:01,311 --> 01:14:03,473 it's always a good idea to have, 1421 01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:04,970 if you're gonna have a scrap, have a big one. 1422 01:14:04,982 --> 01:14:07,724 And get it out of the way. 1423 01:14:07,734 --> 01:14:10,692 So that everyone knows we're all on the same boat. 1424 01:14:10,696 --> 01:14:12,733 Because if the fight goes the wrong way... 1425 01:14:12,739 --> 01:14:14,946 verbal of course, all verbal... 1426 01:14:15,075 --> 01:14:18,318 then it's time for that person to say, "I'm leaving by another boat." 1427 01:14:18,328 --> 01:14:20,444 But if they're coming on your boat, 1428 01:14:20,497 --> 01:14:23,239 there are certain things that've got to be observed. 1429 01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:25,366 # Oh, don't deceive me 1430 01:14:25,419 --> 01:14:28,127 # Oh, never leave me 1431 01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:35,590 # How could you use a poor maiden so? # 1432 01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:39,218 - [Narrator] Needless to say, Patrick's film didn't go out 1433 01:14:39,224 --> 01:14:42,762 on Channel 4 on January 16th, 1984. 1434 01:14:42,811 --> 01:14:43,767 Ours did. 1435 01:14:43,812 --> 01:14:46,725 (Channel 4 theme) 1436 01:14:49,485 --> 01:14:51,852 - [Announcer] Now on Four, and only on Four, 1437 01:14:51,862 --> 01:14:53,773 the answers to the questions you may have been 1438 01:14:53,780 --> 01:14:56,943 asking since the beginning of The Prisoner. 1439 01:14:56,950 --> 01:15:00,409 (upbeat '80s synth music) 1440 01:15:04,708 --> 01:15:08,576 - [Narrator] Complete with obligatory '80s synth music, 1441 01:15:08,587 --> 01:15:10,373 and those primitive-looking video effects 1442 01:15:10,422 --> 01:15:13,881 of the time, Six Into One, The Prisoner File 1443 01:15:13,884 --> 01:15:17,002 was almost as hard to watch then as it is now. 1444 01:15:17,971 --> 01:15:18,836 So let's not. 1445 01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:21,172 - [Voiceover] Wipe it. Start again. 1446 01:15:24,645 --> 01:15:28,138 - [Narrator] 2017, and a rare opportunity 1447 01:15:28,148 --> 01:15:30,480 to try and put things right. 1448 01:15:30,484 --> 01:15:33,101 The chance to revisit familiar places, 1449 01:15:33,111 --> 01:15:35,773 old interviews, and distant memories. 1450 01:15:35,781 --> 01:15:37,897 The chance to make a new film, 1451 01:15:37,908 --> 01:15:40,696 the film that Patrick McGoohan deserves. 1452 01:15:40,702 --> 01:15:43,785 (ominous percussion) 1453 01:15:45,707 --> 01:15:48,995 (helicopter whine) 1454 01:15:50,879 --> 01:15:53,792 Unfortunately, there is no escape. 1455 01:15:53,799 --> 01:15:55,915 Certainly not from the past. 1456 01:15:55,926 --> 01:15:57,837 We've just seen that. 1457 01:15:57,844 --> 01:16:00,711 But there's also no escaping your destiny. 1458 01:16:00,722 --> 01:16:01,962 Not here. 1459 01:16:02,015 --> 01:16:04,222 Not in the Village. 1460 01:16:04,226 --> 01:16:08,390 (ominous music and engine wailing) 1461 01:16:20,701 --> 01:16:23,614 And so it begins all over again. 1462 01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:28,699 There's no escaping the questions that you ask of yourself. 1463 01:16:28,750 --> 01:16:30,991 - [Interviewer] Did the Prisoner escape? 1464 01:16:31,169 --> 01:16:35,003 - [McGoohan] No, the Prisoner never escapes. 1465 01:16:35,007 --> 01:16:36,793 I mean, you are a prisoner of something. 1466 01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,259 Everyone is a prisoner of something. 1467 01:16:40,262 --> 01:16:44,722 You escape when you're released, I suppose, by death. 1468 01:16:44,725 --> 01:16:47,638 That's the final release, and as to how and where you go, 1469 01:16:47,644 --> 01:16:49,351 and what they're after depends on what sort 1470 01:16:49,354 --> 01:16:50,765 of prisoner you were. 1471 01:16:50,772 --> 01:16:54,891 You could be a prisoner and free, at least on parole. 1472 01:16:56,361 --> 01:16:59,149 - [Interviewer] It's still rattling around in the mind, isn't it? 1473 01:16:59,156 --> 01:17:00,772 - [McGoohan] What, the concept? 1474 01:17:00,782 --> 01:17:03,945 Of course, yes. (sound of bars slamming shut) 1475 01:17:05,495 --> 01:17:08,453 (The Prisoner theme music) 114423

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