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(thunderclap)
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- [Narrator's voice echoing]
It was like a dream.
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A dream that had become fabulous reality.
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Here I am in America for
the very first time in 1983,
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on a mission to get an
interview with Patrick McGoohan
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about his groundbreaking
television series, The Prisoner.
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A dream, because the
series had changed my life
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back in 1968 when it was
first shown in Britain.
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A dream that you almost never get:
to meet your heroes.
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A dream, because an infant
Channel 4 Television
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in London had commissioned a
documentary about its making.
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A dream, because I knew nothing about
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making television programmes.
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With the help of a director,
this would be my first.
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McGoohan had always
declined to be interviewed
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about his masterwork, but for some reason,
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he'd responded positively
to a two-page begging letter
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from me to consider talking about it...
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On camera.
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This is the story of what
happened on that trip.
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Archives have been raided, unseen
interviews excavated; memories
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long since repressed, some
for good reason,
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have finally escaped.
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35 years later, McGoohan's
daughter Catherine
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has helped me to understand
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much of what I didn't realise back then.
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But like father like daughter,
it pays to be guarded
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when talking to people
who want information.
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Information, information...
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- I took my time to think
about whether I should do this.
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Because as you know, he
rarely gave interviews.
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But what I feel, is what he
couldn't say about himself,
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maybe I can say for him.
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So that's sort of where I'm at,
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and he deserves it.
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- [Number Six] I've resigned,
1 will not be pushed, filed,
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stamped, indexed, briefed,
debriefed or numbered.
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- [Narrator] Santa Monica, California.
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McGoohan had agreed to
meet us on neutral ground:
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The Huntley Hotel.
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I recognised the building immediately
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from the exterior elevator -
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a significant feature in John Boorman's
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gangster movie, Point Blank.
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The film's baddie lived
here in the penthouse suite.
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In reality, this was, and still is,
a bar.
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McGoohan's chosen rendezvous point.
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Not so blank, not so neutral.
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(clanging of prison doors)
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I imagined him arriving at the Huntley's
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underground carpark,
determined, angry even,
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and with a list of demands
written on a letter
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ready to be slammed on our table.
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(Village horn fanfare)
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Suddenly, he was there.
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McGoohan did have demands.
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We must not interview certain people
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under any circumstances.
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We should definitely interview others.
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Demands that we couldn't guarantee.
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We failed our first audition, but McGoohan
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did put us on callback...
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and then he left.
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I already felt like
a defeated Number Two
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trying to persuade McGoohan to tell us
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his version of the Prisoner story.
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Something that was very personal to him.
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I just didn't realise how personal.
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He wasn't going to
simply cooperate with us.
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When had he ever done that?
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- [Number Two] Let's make a deal.
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You cooperate, tell us what we
want to know.
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This can be a very nice place.
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- [Number Six] I will not make any
deals with you.
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I will not be pushed,
filed, stamped, indexed,
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briefed, debriefed or numbered.
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My life is my own.
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- [Narrator] Was Number Six
referring to his fictional life,
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or to the real life of his creator?
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McGoohan's daughter
Catherine thinks it's both.
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- When I revisited The Prisoner
many years afterwards,
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I had missed a very important detail.
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And when I saw it in that
opening episode, Arrival,
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I went, "Oh, my God."
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- The time of my birth is missing.
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- His personal birthdate.
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- 4:31 AM, 19th of March, 1928.
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I have nothing to say; is that clear?
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- He was not playing a character.
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Oh, he was playing the
character of Number Six.
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But that's 100 per cent personal.
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- [Narrator] In 1983,
without the benefit of either
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the internet or YouTube, I wasn't to know
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that McGoohan had already
spoken about The Prisoner
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on television in 1977.
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TV Ontario in Canada
had successfully lured
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him into the studio, along
with a small audience
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of students studying The
Prisoner at university level.
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Asking the questions,
someone called Warner Troyer.
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Answering them, angry Patrick.
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- We're run by the Pentagon.
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We're run by Madison Avenue,
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we're run by television,
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and as long as we accept those things,
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and don't revolt, we'll have
to go along with the stream.
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I think it's going on
every day, all around us.
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I had to sign in to get into this joint.
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- [Troyer] Mmhmm.
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- Downstairs, yeah.
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- [Troyer] Make you angry too?
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- Slightly, yes, yes.
- (laughing) Right?
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- There are pass-keys, you know,
"Let's go down to the basement”
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and all this, that's prisonership
as far as I'm concerned,
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and that makes me mad, and that
makes me rebel,
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and that's what The Prisoner
was doing,
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was rebelling against that
type of thing.
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(dramatic music)
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- [Narrator] Our next rendezvous
was at Santa Monica Pier,
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to talk about how we
might do our interview
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for British television.
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I thought McGoohan was just
running us around town,
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trying to keep us off guard.
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Now I know the simple truth,
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thanks to Catherine.
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- This is a place that he often went to.
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He loved this view, he loved this area,
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he would walk along here,
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and he would take in the
sights, and he really
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enjoyed living here.
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(gentle music)
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- [Narrator] Was it the sand, the sea,
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or the sights on that day, that calmed
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McGoohan's troubled mind?
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All I know was that he
finally agreed
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to stop running, and start talking.
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To give us what we wanted.
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Information about The Prisoner.
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(haunting music)
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(maniacal laughter echoing)
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(Village horn fanfare)
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- [Village Announcer] Good morning,
good morning, good morning,
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and what a lovely day it is again.
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(soft jazz music)
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- [Narrator] It was a
lovely morning that day.
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The big day; the day of the interview.
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This time, we rendezvoused
in Laurel Canyon.
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McGoohan arranged to meet
us somewhere in these hills,
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exactly where,
I don't remember now.
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He had access to an empty
house, where we could shoot
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and not be disturbed.
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(music continues)
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I knew that he didn't
really want to do this,
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but for some reason, he'd agreed.
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Looking back at the footage now,
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it's far more revealing than I remember.
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- [McGoohan]
How many tapes have you got?
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Lot of tapes, aren't there?
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So we can keep going
as much as we want?
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- [Narrator] Okay, I'm ready. (laughs)
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- What, but-- Are you ready?
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Come on, then.
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(laughter)
I'm the one that's scared.
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- [Narrator] Me too.
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- Well, come on then.
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Well, you're smiling a lot,
that's all right.
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- [Narrator] Actually, can I just...
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- You can't see me yet, can you?
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Just sort of, see if it's
possible to relax at all.
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Oh, well, I take a look,
walk over from the fireplace,
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I look down there, there's the
camera and I
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have a look at you all, and say:
"All set?"
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All right.
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Shoot.
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- [Narrator] I started by
asking him about Lord Grade.
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- Lord Grade?
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Lew Grade?
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He was Lew then, before he was
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er... No.
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Start again, sorry.
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It's too cute.
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Too cute, don't like it.
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Once more, same way.
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- [Narrator] I didn't know what
I could do
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to make the whole thing easier.
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- All right, let's, uh...
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Shoot.
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- [Narrator] I asked
again about Lew Grade,
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but again, he didn't like his answer.
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- Let's start again.
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Start again.
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- [Narrator] Okay, cut!
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Cut, Chuck!
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- Same way, right away, please.
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All right there, then... All set?
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- [Narrator] How could you tell
Patrick McGoohan to relax?
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He didn't do relaxed.
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- (sighing) Shoot.
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- [Narrator] For a third time,
Lord Grade.
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- Lord Grade.
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He was Lew Grade at that time,
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and I had been doing a number
of TV plays,
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a whole string of them, in
the days when they were live,
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in other words, when
it said in the studio,
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"Vision on", you were exposed
to the millions,
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00:09:50,256 --> 00:09:52,623
or however many that
were watching, and if you made
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00:09:52,633 --> 00:09:56,092
a mistake, you didn't have
the privilege of going
207
00:09:56,095 --> 00:09:58,052
back and picking it up
and correcting it, so
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it was very exciting,
good for the adrenaline.
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00:10:00,474 --> 00:10:04,217
One of the plays that I did
was a play called
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00:10:04,228 --> 00:10:07,641
The Big Knife, by Clifford Odets,
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00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:11,979
in which I played an ageing movie star.
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00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:14,853
And Lew Grade saw it,
and at the time they were
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00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:18,778
looking for someone to be
in a new series that they
214
00:10:18,868 --> 00:10:22,327
were preparing called Danger Man.
215
00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:25,914
(Danger Man theme)
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00:10:30,546 --> 00:10:33,288
[Patrick McGoohan: voiceover] Every government
has its Secret Service branch.
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00:10:33,299 --> 00:10:36,337
America, it's CIA,
France, Deuxieme Bureau,
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00:10:36,385 --> 00:10:38,251
England, MI5.
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00:10:38,346 --> 00:10:41,714
A messy job? Well, that's when they
usually call on me, or
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00:10:41,807 --> 00:10:43,047
someone like me.
221
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:45,182
Oh, yes, my name is Drake.
222
00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:47,556
John Drake.
223
00:10:47,772 --> 00:10:50,935
(dramatic crescendo)
224
00:10:51,567 --> 00:10:54,685
The first script I got
had a sequence in it
225
00:10:54,737 --> 00:10:57,729
where I was lying on a bed,
226
00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:01,529
and there was a young lady
lying beside me on the bed -
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00:11:01,619 --> 00:11:06,580
on the bed - and there was
a piece in the plot
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00:11:06,957 --> 00:11:12,452
where I had to get at a
very pertinent document...
229
00:11:12,546 --> 00:11:16,005
There was a picture behind the bed,
230
00:11:16,008 --> 00:11:20,593
and behind the picture was
a safe with a combination,
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00:11:20,596 --> 00:11:23,964
and in the script, it said that
I rolled over
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00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:26,971
on top of the girl, and said
"Excuse me",
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00:11:27,019 --> 00:11:31,229
in order to work the
picture across, get at the
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combination, and find the document.
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00:11:34,694 --> 00:11:38,904
Then read the secrets contained therein.
236
00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:41,064
So I mentioned that this didn't seem to be
237
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a particularly good idea,
238
00:11:42,284 --> 00:11:44,241
it'd be better without,
239
00:11:44,328 --> 00:11:48,162
and, er... in fact we didn't do that.
240
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Nor did we ever do
anything like that again.
241
00:11:54,088 --> 00:11:56,295
- [Narrator] If that particular
scene was never shot,
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00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:59,423
many others involving women
spies and characters were.
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00:11:59,635 --> 00:12:03,173
McGoohan was in at the birth
of what was later termed
244
00:12:03,222 --> 00:12:05,714
the Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang genre.
245
00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:09,309
The age of the handsome,
callous secret agent.
246
00:12:09,311 --> 00:12:13,475
But he obviously had a very
different moral compass.
247
00:12:14,942 --> 00:12:18,435
- During this time, Bond came along.
248
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:22,271
And he had been offered
that character, that role.
249
00:12:22,283 --> 00:12:26,402
And he had turned it
down, for the same reasons
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that he didn't like the
character in John Drake.
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00:12:32,543 --> 00:12:38,880
He felt that it was a very
stereotypic, Bond-like character,
252
00:12:39,592 --> 00:12:43,301
that was... a womaniser,
253
00:12:44,013 --> 00:12:46,926
carried a gun, and shot people.
254
00:12:47,349 --> 00:12:49,431
(gunshot)
255
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:54,054
He didn't want to play someone
that was full of himself,
256
00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:56,932
I can tell you that.
257
00:12:57,193 --> 00:12:59,400
He was good looking,
258
00:12:59,528 --> 00:13:02,486
but it wasn't just his looks.
259
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:05,983
You knew that he was always
thinking, and you could
260
00:13:05,993 --> 00:13:08,735
always see in a scene,
he was always
261
00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:10,119
working things out.
262
00:13:11,081 --> 00:13:14,824
(urgent music)
263
00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:21,214
He also moved very, very
well, in fact, Lew Grade
264
00:13:21,258 --> 00:13:23,841
described it that he moved
like a panther.
265
00:13:24,011 --> 00:13:26,048
(growling of a panther)
266
00:13:30,893 --> 00:13:33,806
He was firm and decisive.
267
00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:38,857
Other people have described
it as, he was defiant
268
00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:39,815
in every way.
269
00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:42,943
- He can make even the act
of putting on his dressing gown
270
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:45,488
appear as a gesture of defiance.
271
00:13:45,533 --> 00:13:48,150
- I thought that it was
proper to do things which
272
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,370
were not offensive, on the
television at that time.
273
00:13:52,373 --> 00:13:54,910
Now, of course, they have everything.
274
00:13:54,917 --> 00:13:56,499
The sky's the limit.
275
00:13:56,585 --> 00:13:58,622
But at that time I thought
if they wanted to
276
00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:01,254
go out and see something salacious,
277
00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:04,128
they could go to a movie
theatre that provided
278
00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:06,838
that sort of fare, come home
and watch
279
00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:09,383
whatever good clean stuff
was going on at the time
280
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:11,222
at home, you know?
281
00:14:11,225 --> 00:14:13,182
That was the general
idea anyway, you know.
282
00:14:13,185 --> 00:14:14,926
There's a lot of stuff
that's been talked about,
283
00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:16,727
the fact that I'm a
prude and I don't believe
284
00:14:16,772 --> 00:14:18,683
in sex and violence and
all this sort of nonsense,
285
00:14:18,691 --> 00:14:20,523
well, anyone who says that
should go and see a movie
286
00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:23,735
called The Gypsy and the
Gentleman, where I
287
00:14:23,821 --> 00:14:27,155
threshed around in the hay with
Melina Mercouri for a considerable
288
00:14:27,157 --> 00:14:29,615
amount of time, and another one,
I can't remember the
289
00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,152
name of it, it was awful,
where I had a to rape
290
00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:35,788
the young Canadian girl, but
that wasn't for the telly,
291
00:14:35,791 --> 00:14:37,373
as they say.
292
00:14:39,545 --> 00:14:41,536
(water splashing and metal clanging)
293
00:14:43,048 --> 00:14:45,164
(thud of fist on face)
294
00:14:55,477 --> 00:14:58,720
(rustling of clothing)
295
00:14:59,607 --> 00:15:01,848
(romantic music)
296
00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:03,691
- Don't leave me, Jess.
297
00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:08,363
I tried to give you everything.
298
00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:11,073
(romantic music)
299
00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:16,321
- [Narrator] By now, the interview
was going well.
300
00:15:16,415 --> 00:15:18,577
Patrick was relaxing, and so was I.
301
00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:20,913
- Just repeat that question to me while
(background shout)
302
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,081
they're fixing it.
303
00:15:22,129 --> 00:15:23,619
- [Narrator] But the
local crew were constantly
304
00:15:23,672 --> 00:15:26,630
having technical problems
that I didn't understand.
305
00:15:26,675 --> 00:15:27,836
Nor did Patrick.
306
00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:29,208
- Chuck?
307
00:15:29,261 --> 00:15:31,172
- I started to feel
that we were letting him down,
308
00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:33,512
that this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity
309
00:15:33,515 --> 00:15:36,758
was slipping through our inept fingers.
310
00:15:37,394 --> 00:15:40,762
That's when McGoohan took control.
311
00:15:40,814 --> 00:15:45,775
- How would you feel about a
little stretch of the legs? Hmm?
312
00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:49,604
Would you be kind enough
to follow me in here?
313
00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:51,398
- [Narrator] He was now directing us.
314
00:15:51,408 --> 00:15:53,445
As he literally started to call the shots.
315
00:15:53,494 --> 00:15:56,282
- Shall we stretch our legs?
316
00:15:56,455 --> 00:15:58,617
If you'll follow me...
317
00:15:59,375 --> 00:16:00,536
They're all ready?
318
00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:02,541
- [Narrator] He was
creating his own sequence,
319
00:16:02,586 --> 00:16:06,580
moving the cameraman, and
us, from room to room,
320
00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:07,747
to room.
321
00:16:08,217 --> 00:16:10,879
- This is all too muddy, let's start over,
322
00:16:10,928 --> 00:16:14,137
not use this at all, we'll do
another lot.
323
00:16:15,975 --> 00:16:17,557
Still rolling?
- [Crew] Keep rolling, yes.
324
00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:18,136
- [McGoohan] Keep rolling?
325
00:16:18,143 --> 00:16:20,134
You still rolling?
326
00:16:21,355 --> 00:16:23,471
Let's go, no, let's go.
327
00:16:23,482 --> 00:16:26,691
- [Narrator] Finally, we
were getting to the target.
328
00:16:26,819 --> 00:16:29,402
The Prisoner was in our sights.
329
00:16:29,405 --> 00:16:31,237
- I felt like doing something else,
330
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,572
and I looked for something else to do,
331
00:16:33,659 --> 00:16:35,946
and I had, of course, something
at the back of my mind,
332
00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:37,326
and that's why we're here, isn't it?
333
00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:41,160
(thunderclap)
334
00:16:43,544 --> 00:16:46,627
(The Prisoner theme music begins)
335
00:16:58,308 --> 00:17:03,553
The general theme of The
Prisoner has been with me
336
00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:07,148
for years, since I was a little boy,
337
00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:11,611
being brought up in a very
strict, religious household.
338
00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:15,232
Going to school with
strict schoolmasters.
339
00:17:15,242 --> 00:17:16,482
- Society.
340
00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:17,491
- Yes, sir?
341
00:17:17,536 --> 00:17:20,153
- Society is a place where
people exist together.
342
00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:21,279
- Yes, sir.
343
00:17:21,290 --> 00:17:23,156
The individual little boy,
344
00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:27,536
any little boy up against
this sort of a pressure.
345
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,666
- You must conform!
- Yes, sir.
346
00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:32,840
- Itis my sworn duty to
see that you do conform.
347
00:17:32,926 --> 00:17:34,132
- Yes sir.
348
00:17:34,219 --> 00:17:36,881
And the slight isolation
in it, and that's what
349
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,046
the theme of The Prisoner is,
the individual
350
00:17:39,099 --> 00:17:43,013
in revolt against the bureaucracy.
351
00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:46,596
(police sirens wailing)
352
00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:49,144
And it's always been with me,
353
00:17:49,193 --> 00:17:52,777
and I suppose in some respect
that sort of rebellion
354
00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:55,689
is in everyone, isn't it,
in one way or another?
355
00:17:56,325 --> 00:18:00,159
It came to fruition, I
had done lots of writing
356
00:18:00,162 --> 00:18:02,153
on that theme, nothing
to do with The Prisoner,
357
00:18:02,164 --> 00:18:05,873
but I got the idea of
crystallising it, on the first
358
00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:10,336
two weeks of location we
did on the 39 half hours
359
00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:11,500
of Danger Man.
360
00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:16,630
We're in North Wales, and
we had to shoot a sequence
361
00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:20,255
at a place called
Portmeirion, and I remember
362
00:18:20,265 --> 00:18:23,132
I was driving an Aston Martin
car down this little street
363
00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,510
into this village, the
like of which I'd never seen,
364
00:18:25,562 --> 00:18:28,680
certainly in the British Isles,
365
00:18:28,732 --> 00:18:32,566
and it was like driving into
sunny Italy.
366
00:18:32,778 --> 00:18:36,146
(dreamlike, uplifting music)
367
00:19:03,684 --> 00:19:06,551
I stood there in wonderment,
and when we'd done
368
00:19:06,562 --> 00:19:10,100
the sequence, I found out
that the place had been
369
00:19:10,107 --> 00:19:12,018
designed by a gentleman by the name of
370
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,058
Clough Williams-Ellis.
371
00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:15,977
I got together with him, talked
about it,
372
00:19:16,029 --> 00:19:18,111
and he told me it was his dream.
373
00:19:18,198 --> 00:19:22,408
Basically designed after Portofino,
374
00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:25,616
and I wandered around, and
there were pieces of all
375
00:19:25,622 --> 00:19:28,330
sorts of sculpture from
all over the world,
376
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:30,290
anything, Chinese, Greek, you name it.
377
00:19:30,335 --> 00:19:31,746
It was there.
378
00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,837
And I thought, how strange
it hadn't been used
379
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,801
as a setting for a film, or
something of that nature.
380
00:19:39,803 --> 00:19:41,510
- [Archive film narration]
Swimming or sailing or sitting
381
00:19:41,513 --> 00:19:44,722
and sunning, if you dream of
lazy days and lazy ways
382
00:19:44,808 --> 00:19:47,220
of having fun, if you long for
the romance
383
00:19:47,227 --> 00:19:50,219
and charm of old Italy, to to Wales.
384
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:52,392
That's it, go to Wales; to North Wales,
385
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:54,811
to be exact, to Merionethshire, where
386
00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:56,976
Portmeirion nestles beside
Tremadog bay,
387
00:19:56,987 --> 00:19:59,979
as though it were the Mediterranean.
388
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:05,280
A man's dream transformed
it into this warm
389
00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:07,866
Mediterranean village
that so surprises the eye
390
00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:11,074
prepared for snowy peaks
and lush green valleys.
391
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,702
A man's dream transformed
the coastline that
392
00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:15,794
is now Portmeirion.
393
00:20:15,797 --> 00:20:17,708
Slowly, it became a piece of Italy,
394
00:20:17,716 --> 00:20:20,708
slowly the dream became
fabulous reality.
395
00:20:20,719 --> 00:20:25,213
- It could be the miles
of beach, and the ocean.
396
00:20:25,224 --> 00:20:28,012
It could be an island, it could be...
397
00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,430
a village.
398
00:20:30,646 --> 00:20:32,432
Anywhere in the world.
399
00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:33,562
Isolated.
400
00:20:34,316 --> 00:20:39,231
And I began cooking on my
original little
401
00:20:39,446 --> 00:20:46,239
isolation theme set within that place,
and of course I talked
402
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:48,452
to people about it,
particularly David Tomblin,
403
00:20:48,538 --> 00:20:50,779
who was the First Assistant Director
on all those
404
00:20:50,874 --> 00:20:53,832
Danger Man episodes, and it developed
405
00:20:53,877 --> 00:20:57,370
and it developed and it
developed, until such time as some
406
00:20:57,381 --> 00:20:59,088
scribbling was done,
407
00:20:59,549 --> 00:21:05,420
and Danger Man finished,
and, er... what happened next?
408
00:21:05,889 --> 00:21:08,927
- [Archive film narration] Perfection
here combines with practicality.
409
00:21:08,976 --> 00:21:11,843
Here is an hotel and a town
hall, and garages and shops.
410
00:21:12,062 --> 00:21:14,804
(lush, serene orchestral music)
411
00:21:24,783 --> 00:21:27,024
You imagine togaed
Romans strolling beneath
412
00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:29,402
these classical colonnades.
413
00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,825
You imagine yourself an
ocean away from Wales,
414
00:21:31,832 --> 00:21:34,449
but then Portmeirion is famed
for firing imaginations.
415
00:21:34,459 --> 00:21:38,418
Literary imaginations, in
particular, have thrived here.
416
00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:41,130
- When my father saw Portmeirion,
417
00:21:42,426 --> 00:21:44,337
he went, "Oh, okay."
418
00:21:45,387 --> 00:21:48,925
(calm, atmospheric music)
419
00:21:56,732 --> 00:22:01,898
You had this place that could've been
anywhere in the world,
420
00:22:02,404 --> 00:22:05,112
that was surreal,
421
00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:09,867
that was another world,
that was a Neverland.
422
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:13,238
(calm, gently rhythmic music)
423
00:22:22,049 --> 00:22:26,384
I know for my mother it's
a place she can go to
424
00:22:26,428 --> 00:22:28,669
for a couple of days and then
425
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,049
for some reason, there's
a sense of uneasiness.
426
00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:35,301
(sinister sting)
427
00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:38,099
But he knew how to use that.
428
00:22:39,566 --> 00:22:43,810
And I'm sure he felt the same the
first time he was there
429
00:22:45,238 --> 00:22:48,822
(unearthly, eerie music and
camera shutter clicks)
430
00:22:54,247 --> 00:22:56,830
You just want to get out.
431
00:23:06,635 --> 00:23:10,629
- What happened to the
scribbles was that I went to see
432
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,297
Lew Grade and said, all right,
433
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:17,139
shall we sort of say, enough
Danger Man?
434
00:23:17,145 --> 00:23:19,728
(pounding of typewriter keys)
435
00:23:19,940 --> 00:23:22,682
- He said, "Come on,
Pat, let's keep going",
436
00:23:22,734 --> 00:23:27,194
you know, "We're doing well here,
everybody loves you.
437
00:23:27,197 --> 00:23:30,906
"Let's keep making it", and
he said "No.
438
00:23:31,076 --> 00:23:32,407
"I'm done."
439
00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:34,109
- He asked me would I do anything else?
440
00:23:34,121 --> 00:23:37,955
And I said, well, you know, I do
happen to have
441
00:23:37,999 --> 00:23:42,618
a little idea in my mind,
and a few little notes
442
00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:44,537
on it, and took my briefcase,
opened it,
443
00:23:44,548 --> 00:23:50,089
and took out quite a huge
wad of stuff,
444
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:53,212
you know, sort of, this thick.
445
00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:58,142
In here, Lew got (clearing throat)
an outline
446
00:23:58,145 --> 00:24:02,184
for a story, thing, a
setting here, here, here,
447
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:04,431
and descriptions of things.
448
00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:07,852
I think he became somewhat
alarmed when he saw
449
00:24:07,863 --> 00:24:12,699
all these pages going by,
and said, "Pat,
450
00:24:12,784 --> 00:24:15,742
"why don't you just tell me about it
for a while?"
451
00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:20,156
- So Lew Grade was not
very good at reading material,
452
00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:22,499
he kind of wanted to be
told and shown.
453
00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:26,374
And so my father gave him
the premise.
454
00:24:28,425 --> 00:24:34,888
Okay, what if... What if,
not necessarily John Drake,
455
00:24:35,807 --> 00:24:39,846
but a character like John Drake,
wants to retire?
456
00:24:39,853 --> 00:24:43,016
What happens if he's not allowed?
457
00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:46,641
(atmospheric piano music)
458
00:24:46,818 --> 00:24:50,152
- He listened, until I'd
finished, I sat down,
459
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,318
then he got up, puffed on
his cigar, marched around
460
00:24:53,325 --> 00:24:55,032
a little bit,
461
00:24:55,035 --> 00:24:57,527
then he turned on me and
said "Pat, you see,
462
00:24:57,579 --> 00:25:01,322
"it's so crazy, it might work.
463
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,037
"When can we start?"
464
00:25:04,419 --> 00:25:06,205
(ominous music)
465
00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:07,995
- [Narrator] McGoohan's
concept for The Prisoner
466
00:25:08,131 --> 00:25:11,214
wasn't an easy fit for
television, even in the confident,
467
00:25:11,301 --> 00:25:14,464
experimental atmosphere
of late '60s Britain.
468
00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:17,554
(distorted sitar music)
469
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:21,300
Just how inconvenient
his initial concept was
470
00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:24,770
is something he had revealed
in his Canadian interview
471
00:25:24,814 --> 00:25:25,645
in 1977.
472
00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:29,058
- You didn't initially
want to do 17 films?
473
00:25:29,402 --> 00:25:31,359
- No, seven.
474
00:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,114
As a serial, as opposed to a series.
475
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,659
I thought that the concept
of the thing would sustain
476
00:25:38,662 --> 00:25:40,198
for only seven.
477
00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:43,539
But then Lew Grade
wanted to make his sale.
478
00:25:43,583 --> 00:25:48,703
And he wanted 26, and I
couldn't conceive of 26 stories,
479
00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:51,080
because it would be
spreading it very thin.
480
00:25:51,091 --> 00:25:53,332
But we did manage over a
weekend, with my writers
481
00:25:53,343 --> 00:25:57,052
to cook up 10 more outlines,
and then eventually we did
482
00:25:57,097 --> 00:25:59,338
17, but it should be seven.
483
00:26:00,267 --> 00:26:02,304
At the time, what was selling very well
484
00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:04,681
was Danger Man, for instance.
485
00:26:04,688 --> 00:26:06,554
Action adventure stuff.
486
00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:10,975
But the thing about Lew
Grade was that he was
487
00:26:10,986 --> 00:26:13,068
not limited in his thinking.
488
00:26:13,071 --> 00:26:16,405
He had a broad concept of life,
489
00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:17,944
and he was willing.
490
00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,659
(up-tempo music)
491
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:22,827
I said, of course, there'll be
a little action adventure,
492
00:26:22,831 --> 00:26:25,869
in The Prisoner too, most
of it in the mind, but
493
00:26:25,875 --> 00:26:27,286
there'll be some,
494
00:26:29,546 --> 00:26:32,664
but then he said, he just said go.
495
00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:37,669
You see, he has an instinct,
he has a feeling for something,
496
00:26:37,929 --> 00:26:39,636
he lives on instinct.
497
00:26:39,639 --> 00:26:42,552
- I think Lew liked the danger,
498
00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:46,176
and he liked taking a gamble too,
499
00:26:46,187 --> 00:26:49,054
I mean, he was a business man,
500
00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:50,931
but he like taking a gamble.
501
00:26:50,942 --> 00:26:54,310
And he totally took a
gamble on The Prisoner.
502
00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:57,029
- From the very moment that he said go,
503
00:26:57,032 --> 00:27:00,070
and shook my hand, we
never had a contract,
504
00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:03,694
he never interfered in
anything that I did,
505
00:27:03,705 --> 00:27:05,241
never bothered me.
506
00:27:09,336 --> 00:27:10,792
- [Narrator] Whatever
difficulties both Patrick
507
00:27:10,795 --> 00:27:13,162
and we were experiencing in
trying to film an interview
508
00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:16,211
about The Prisoner, and despite
even bigger difficulties
509
00:27:16,217 --> 00:27:19,005
that were waiting for us
just around the corner,
510
00:27:19,012 --> 00:27:21,049
he did something very kind.
511
00:27:21,097 --> 00:27:23,304
He called Lew, now Lord
Grade, in London, about
512
00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:25,470
doing an interview for us.
513
00:27:26,061 --> 00:27:28,519
I like to think that he told Lew
to do it,
514
00:27:28,521 --> 00:27:29,977
rather than asked.
515
00:27:31,524 --> 00:27:34,937
That's the Patrick McGoohan
we all loved.
516
00:27:36,029 --> 00:27:37,940
- Somebody once asked
me, "How d'you get on with
517
00:27:37,947 --> 00:27:39,062
"Pat McGoohan?"
518
00:27:39,074 --> 00:27:43,659
I said, "Very easily, I have
no problems with him at all."
519
00:27:43,662 --> 00:27:45,073
"Well, how do you do it?"
520
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,367
I said "I just give in to him."
521
00:27:50,418 --> 00:27:52,500
I left it entirely in his hands, I was
522
00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:54,245
absolutely contented.
523
00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:57,881
I knew that they had a project in mind,
524
00:27:57,884 --> 00:28:00,091
I loved the concept of it,
525
00:28:00,136 --> 00:28:03,504
I loved the locale, and most important,
526
00:28:03,515 --> 00:28:06,177
I thought Pat McGoohan
was a star in whatever
527
00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:07,640
he appeared.
528
00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:09,476
I thought he had a remarkable talent.
529
00:28:09,479 --> 00:28:12,312
He was an outstanding personality.
530
00:28:12,315 --> 00:28:15,899
He was the best leading
man we had in the country
531
00:28:15,902 --> 00:28:16,983
at that time.
532
00:28:17,946 --> 00:28:21,689
- There was certainly
an intensity about him.
533
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:25,947
He never compromised himself.
534
00:28:25,954 --> 00:28:29,697
And that, I think, is the
way he led his life.
535
00:28:29,708 --> 00:28:32,450
A lot of the times, I think
he putin a lot of pressure
536
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:36,454
on himself sometimes, and
the people around him.
537
00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:43,132
I think sometimes when
you've got these ideas,
538
00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:47,631
and these thoughts, and you
know things,
539
00:28:47,642 --> 00:28:51,601
it's sometimes hard to
live in the world.
540
00:28:51,604 --> 00:28:56,064
When you see what's going on,
and I think
541
00:28:56,151 --> 00:29:00,145
in that respect, there
was a sense of isolation.
542
00:29:01,114 --> 00:29:04,482
At periods of time, I'm not
saying all the way through.
543
00:29:04,492 --> 00:29:06,028
(Village horn fanfare)
544
00:29:06,035 --> 00:29:08,743
- [Village Announcer]
Good morning again!
545
00:29:08,747 --> 00:29:09,782
- Can we go tighter on it,
546
00:29:09,789 --> 00:29:11,700
and then we just exclude that.
547
00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:14,791
Let's go tighter on it,
we'll be here all night.
548
00:29:14,878 --> 00:29:18,337
Okay, check a frame on
this please, Mike, so that you
549
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:19,795
exclude all that.
550
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:21,130
We just don't have it.
551
00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:22,541
We got it?
552
00:29:22,552 --> 00:29:24,463
‘Cause we cut back to
the other shot anyway,
553
00:29:24,471 --> 00:29:26,633
so let's do it.
This next time.
554
00:29:27,682 --> 00:29:29,673
- [Narrator] By now, it was dark outside.
555
00:29:29,684 --> 00:29:32,392
- [McGoohan] Hope so.
- [Narrator] It was dark inside, too.
556
00:29:32,479 --> 00:29:34,641
But Patrick perservered.
557
00:29:34,647 --> 00:29:38,481
With a film crew obviously
not up to the job in hand.
558
00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:41,398
In fact, he seemed to become
increasingly determined
559
00:29:41,488 --> 00:29:42,603
to have his say.
560
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:46,357
Next question: "You wrote
and directed several
561
00:29:46,409 --> 00:29:50,778
"episodes of The Prisoner,
sometimes under made-up names.
562
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:52,746
"Did your role as Executive
Producer on the series
563
00:29:52,791 --> 00:29:55,954
"enable you to keep better control of it?"
564
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,247
- The control and the
overall look of the thing
565
00:29:58,254 --> 00:30:02,373
had nothing to do with the
title of Executive Producer.
566
00:30:03,551 --> 00:30:07,089
Since I had cooked up
the idea, I guess that
567
00:30:07,138 --> 00:30:09,630
they referred back to me if they wanted
568
00:30:09,641 --> 00:30:11,473
to know what was going to
happen next.
569
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,218
What was the intention of it
all, what was the direction
570
00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:18,264
of it all, what did it mean,
and all that sort of stuff.
571
00:30:18,274 --> 00:30:21,141
So the titles had nothing to do with it.
572
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:24,440
I didn't sort of ask for
the Executive Producer role
573
00:30:24,447 --> 00:30:26,563
at all, it was sort of pushed
upon me because the lads
574
00:30:26,574 --> 00:30:29,111
sort of said, "Well, you'd better put
your name up there as something",
575
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,821
and I didn't have it up there
576
00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:32,820
as the creator, so you'd
better stick it up there,
577
00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:34,697
something to do with the
other side of production,
578
00:30:34,707 --> 00:30:36,414
as opposed to just acting
in it and doing the odd
579
00:30:36,459 --> 00:30:39,372
bit of directing and writing.
580
00:30:39,712 --> 00:30:43,376
- When The Prisoner started,
they had this concept,
581
00:30:43,508 --> 00:30:48,969
it was a concept show, and it
was very clearly thought out.
582
00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:52,176
None of this was an accident.
583
00:30:52,183 --> 00:30:54,800
And I think my father had
written something like
584
00:30:54,811 --> 00:31:00,056
a 40-page outline of everything.
Wardrobe.
585
00:31:02,735 --> 00:31:03,566
Sets.
586
00:31:05,905 --> 00:31:07,441
The phones.
587
00:31:09,075 --> 00:31:10,611
The blazers.
588
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:15,204
But imagine being the
director or a writer,
589
00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:18,494
coming onto a show like
that, and understanding
590
00:31:18,501 --> 00:31:22,790
immediately what everyone is going for.
591
00:31:22,964 --> 00:31:28,084
So it was important to my
father to keep the concept
592
00:31:28,636 --> 00:31:35,224
intact, and to not veer off,
593
00:31:35,476 --> 00:31:39,765
and the last thing that
he wanted was to have
594
00:31:39,814 --> 00:31:43,148
just another secret agent show.
595
00:31:45,486 --> 00:31:49,605
So in a way he had to be
involved in every aspect of it,
596
00:31:50,533 --> 00:31:52,740
because it was in his mind.
597
00:31:54,078 --> 00:31:55,989
(laughter)
598
00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:59,372
(quietly ominous music)
599
00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:05,996
- [McGoohan] The look of it, yes,
going back to the beginning
600
00:32:06,007 --> 00:32:09,045
of the concept of the
man in isolation against
601
00:32:09,052 --> 00:32:11,794
the establishment, against
the bureaucracy, the best
602
00:32:11,804 --> 00:32:16,549
place to put him is in
an area of isolation,
603
00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:20,136
whether an island or a
remote village somewhere
604
00:32:20,813 --> 00:32:22,349
in the world.
605
00:32:22,815 --> 00:32:26,558
Then it was best to get
down to basics and say
606
00:32:26,694 --> 00:32:29,527
this village; what is this village like?
607
00:32:30,949 --> 00:32:33,190
Well, we knew what it
was like architecturally
608
00:32:33,201 --> 00:32:35,317
because we were using Portmeirion.
609
00:32:35,328 --> 00:32:39,071
Then we sort of decided
to think about what was
610
00:32:39,082 --> 00:32:41,073
the plumbing like, did
it have a newspaper,
611
00:32:41,084 --> 00:32:43,371
if it had a newspaper, what
was the newspaper called?
612
00:32:43,586 --> 00:32:47,545
Electricity, television,
what communication system?
613
00:32:47,966 --> 00:32:50,173
(Village horn fanfare)
614
00:32:50,218 --> 00:32:53,586
Transport, all that, we worked
it out as if researching
615
00:32:53,888 --> 00:32:56,346
how one would build a city.
616
00:32:59,060 --> 00:33:01,518
- [Narrator] In the real world,
Portmeirion
617
00:33:01,604 --> 00:33:03,936
was a holiday resort.
618
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:05,772
So when location shooting
on The Prisoner began
619
00:33:05,775 --> 00:33:10,190
in September 1966, the
streets were still full
620
00:33:10,196 --> 00:33:11,186
of tourists.
621
00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:15,482
One of them shot the
filming of the first episode, Arrival,
622
00:33:15,535 --> 00:33:22,282
at close range, capturing exactly what
was being shot by the production.
623
00:33:23,042 --> 00:33:26,285
(dreamlike music)
624
00:33:28,756 --> 00:33:30,246
(whirring)
625
00:33:30,425 --> 00:33:32,507
(engine revving and
tyres screeching)
626
00:33:34,012 --> 00:33:35,377
- Where to, sir?
627
00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:37,595
Ou desirez-vous aller?
628
00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:39,222
- Take me to the nearest town.
629
00:33:39,225 --> 00:33:41,637
- [Taxi driver] Oh, we're only the
local service.
630
00:33:41,644 --> 00:33:43,885
- Take me as far as you can.
631
00:33:43,938 --> 00:33:45,349
Why did you speak to me in French?
632
00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:46,938
- French is international.
633
00:33:46,941 --> 00:33:48,181
- [Number Six] I suppose
it's a waste of time
634
00:33:48,192 --> 00:33:49,523
asking the name of this place?
635
00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:50,858
- As a matter of
fact, I thought you might
636
00:33:50,903 --> 00:33:52,439
be Polish, perhaps a Czech.
637
00:33:52,488 --> 00:33:54,479
- [Number Six] What would Poles
or Czechs be doing here?
638
00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:55,980
- It's very cosmopolitan.
639
00:33:55,992 --> 00:33:57,733
You never know who you
meet next.
640
00:33:57,994 --> 00:34:00,577
(whimsical music)
641
00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:02,116
(tyres screeching)
642
00:34:02,206 --> 00:34:03,412
Be seeing you.
643
00:34:03,458 --> 00:34:06,200
(roar of engine)
644
00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:13,374
- Quite honestly, it's
almost as if there is
645
00:34:13,384 --> 00:34:16,422
no Prisoner without Portmeirion.
646
00:34:16,429 --> 00:34:17,840
And vice versa.
647
00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:23,592
They would've come up with something,
648
00:34:23,603 --> 00:34:26,220
and they would've had to have
probably built something
649
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:27,561
from scratch.
650
00:34:27,565 --> 00:34:31,684
I don't know if they
would've gone to a location.
651
00:34:31,861 --> 00:34:35,070
(suspenseful music)
652
00:34:46,125 --> 00:34:49,743
(musical phrase repeats)
653
00:34:50,963 --> 00:34:53,170
Clough, the architect,
654
00:34:53,216 --> 00:34:57,676
he had only just finished building it.
655
00:34:58,012 --> 00:35:00,253
It was actually maybe still
in the process
656
00:35:00,264 --> 00:35:03,973
of being completed when
they started filming.
657
00:35:05,686 --> 00:35:08,724
But I can honestly say to you,
658
00:35:08,731 --> 00:35:11,598
I believe it was built for The Prisoner.
659
00:35:11,609 --> 00:35:14,271
(suspenseful percussive music)
660
00:35:21,869 --> 00:35:22,984
- Lovely day.
661
00:35:22,995 --> 00:35:24,406
- Showers later.
662
00:35:24,413 --> 00:35:25,244
- Lovely day.
663
00:35:25,289 --> 00:35:26,871
- Showers later.
664
00:35:26,874 --> 00:35:29,491
(suspenseful music)
665
00:35:30,461 --> 00:35:31,951
- Careful sir, they're new plants.
666
00:35:32,088 --> 00:35:33,294
- (hushed) Sorry.
667
00:35:35,174 --> 00:35:35,959
Goodbye.
668
00:35:42,765 --> 00:35:46,429
- [McGoohan] With regard to
the Penny Farthing...
669
00:35:46,435 --> 00:35:50,804
brought images to my mind
of a very elegant period.
670
00:35:50,815 --> 00:35:52,476
If you remember those old etchings
671
00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:55,851
with the Penny Farthing and
the gentleman
672
00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,188
beautifully dressed, seated atop
673
00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:02,236
the big one of the two - the Penny -
674
00:36:02,243 --> 00:36:05,952
wearing a top hat, moustached,
all this sort of thing,
675
00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:09,080
and the fine patent-leather
shoes on those wheels,
676
00:36:09,167 --> 00:36:12,080
and it was an era of elegance.
677
00:36:12,461 --> 00:36:14,793
And the Penny Farthing
was used to symbolise
678
00:36:14,797 --> 00:36:19,416
progress, which was an
ironic comment, I hope,
679
00:36:19,427 --> 00:36:21,919
on the fact that progress perhaps
680
00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:23,966
goes too fast for us
sometimes, and we're not
681
00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,010
able to catch up with it.
682
00:36:26,893 --> 00:36:29,760
(playful, slow-paced jazz)
683
00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:32,728
- [Narrator] It had been a
long, nerve-jangling day.
684
00:36:32,732 --> 00:36:35,440
Finally, Patrick led us
to the empty, cavernous
685
00:36:35,443 --> 00:36:38,435
living room of this mysterious house.
686
00:36:38,446 --> 00:36:41,484
It felt like an abandoned film set,
687
00:36:41,490 --> 00:36:44,403
where he could play
his final scene in slow retreat,
688
00:36:44,452 --> 00:36:46,318
and at a safe distance.
689
00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:52,374
But why had all this been
so difficult for him,
690
00:36:52,418 --> 00:36:53,283
and for us?
691
00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:58,964
- He was embarrassed to
talk about it and to take
692
00:36:58,966 --> 00:37:00,798
credit for everything.
693
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,630
- [McGoohan - echoing]
I'm the one that's scared.
694
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:06,676
- And again it goes back
to not wanting to talk
695
00:37:06,682 --> 00:37:08,298
too much about himself.
696
00:37:08,309 --> 00:37:12,519
- [McGoohan - echoing] Just, sort of,
see if it's possible to relax at all...
697
00:37:13,648 --> 00:37:16,561
- And not explaining too much
698
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:19,818
about the meaning of this or that.
699
00:37:20,363 --> 00:37:22,070
He felt...
- [McGoohan - echoing] Shoot.
700
00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:25,532
- ...the work spoke for itself, and
it was left
701
00:37:25,534 --> 00:37:28,492
for individual interpretation.
702
00:37:28,537 --> 00:37:31,325
- [McGoohan - echoing]
Any more explaining to do?
703
00:37:31,374 --> 00:37:32,159
Come on.
704
00:37:33,668 --> 00:37:37,912
- He didn't care for actors
talking about themselves.
705
00:37:37,922 --> 00:37:40,630
He thought it was very indulgent.
706
00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:44,630
And he also didn't believe that actors
707
00:37:44,637 --> 00:37:48,005
should give away their secrets.
708
00:37:48,015 --> 00:37:49,881
- [Narrator] I didn't know that then.
709
00:37:49,892 --> 00:37:50,927
I do now.
710
00:37:50,977 --> 00:37:52,183
- [McGoohan] We'll have to ask Chris.
711
00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:54,223
Have to ask Chris.
712
00:37:54,855 --> 00:37:56,061
Why was that?
713
00:37:56,148 --> 00:37:57,730
- [Narrator] By the time
it came to talking about
714
00:37:57,817 --> 00:38:00,559
The Prisoner's infamous
final episode, Fall Out,
715
00:38:00,653 --> 00:38:02,985
McGoohan was in full sarcastic mode.
716
00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:07,486
He was enjoying teasing us,
testing us...
717
00:38:07,493 --> 00:38:09,154
tormenting us.
718
00:38:09,161 --> 00:38:09,992
- [McGoohan] Religious?
719
00:38:11,038 --> 00:38:14,281
What was religious in the
last episode?
720
00:38:15,293 --> 00:38:16,909
Religious?
721
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:19,286
We what?
722
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:21,542
Purgatory was in it?
723
00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:22,835
Where was that?
724
00:38:24,969 --> 00:38:28,553
(alarm blaring)
# Ezekiel cracked dem dry bones
725
00:38:28,931 --> 00:38:31,639
# Now, hear the word of the Lord.
726
00:38:31,809 --> 00:38:34,517
# Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
727
00:38:34,603 --> 00:38:37,436
# Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
728
00:38:37,481 --> 00:38:42,066
# Ezekiel connected dem dry bones
Now, hear the word of the Lord... #
729
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:44,060
What? Did it?
730
00:38:44,071 --> 00:38:45,527
Really? Oh.
731
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:49,949
Well... (clearing throat)
732
00:38:49,952 --> 00:38:51,693
it was nice talking to you.
733
00:38:51,746 --> 00:38:52,861
I suppose.
734
00:38:53,873 --> 00:38:56,160
Sure there's nothing else?
735
00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:59,876
Is there anything,
any more explaining to do?
736
00:38:59,879 --> 00:39:01,461
Come on.
737
00:39:01,464 --> 00:39:02,954
Must be.
738
00:39:02,965 --> 00:39:05,457
I can't think of anything else, either.
739
00:39:05,468 --> 00:39:09,006
If (clearing throat), perchance,
you have
740
00:39:09,013 --> 00:39:12,756
understood anything at all about this...
er...
741
00:39:14,226 --> 00:39:18,845
Oh, yes, indeed, if perchance
you have understood...
742
00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:21,063
They're pointing at me,
those chaps up there...
743
00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:23,104
...anything at all about this,
744
00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:25,397
it, er... (clearing throat)
745
00:39:25,488 --> 00:39:29,903
will, er... profoundly disappoint me,
746
00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:35,787
because I've done my best to
confuse you.
747
00:39:36,415 --> 00:39:39,373
But, you know, we'll, we'll keep
trying, won't we?
748
00:39:39,794 --> 00:39:41,785
Be seeing you.
749
00:39:43,255 --> 00:39:45,292
- [Narrator] It was over.
(door shuts)
750
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:48,382
To reward ourselves for surviving,
751
00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:52,175
we drove into the Mojave
Desert the very next day.
752
00:39:52,181 --> 00:39:55,219
Along the highway,
relaxing resorts with names like
753
00:39:55,267 --> 00:39:58,601
1000 Hot Springs,
and Desert Hot Springs.
754
00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:02,852
Our mistake is that we
never once looked back.
755
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,397
Our little road trip ended right here,
756
00:40:06,404 --> 00:40:08,691
in this remote desert hotel.
757
00:40:09,782 --> 00:40:14,401
We were in this very room,
when the phone rang.
758
00:40:14,412 --> 00:40:16,028
It was McGoohan.
(bleeping)
759
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,745
He was already here, waiting
for us, someplace nearby.
760
00:40:20,751 --> 00:40:23,368
I'll never know how he found us.
761
00:40:24,547 --> 00:40:27,130
But I do remember his last words.
762
00:40:27,133 --> 00:40:29,465
- [McGoohan - echoing] Be seeing you.
763
00:40:29,468 --> 00:40:32,210
- [Narrator] We met; he'd changed his mind.
764
00:40:32,221 --> 00:40:34,963
He took out his chequebook
and signed a blank cheque.
765
00:40:35,015 --> 00:40:38,883
How much did we want to
hand all the footage back?
766
00:40:38,894 --> 00:40:39,929
We couldn't.
767
00:40:39,979 --> 00:40:43,938
We needed the interview,
or we had no film.
768
00:40:43,941 --> 00:40:46,524
At last, we reached a compromise.
769
00:40:46,527 --> 00:40:51,397
We agreed to do the entire
interview all over again.
770
00:40:51,407 --> 00:40:53,398
That's why the material
filmed in that mysterious
771
00:40:53,409 --> 00:40:57,528
empty house in Laurel Canyon
has never been seen before.
772
00:41:00,791 --> 00:41:03,909
I should've reminded myself that this
was the same Patrick McGoohan
773
00:41:03,919 --> 00:41:07,412
who had wowed theatre audiences
in 1959
774
00:41:07,423 --> 00:41:11,587
with a blistering performance
in Ibsen's play, Brand.
775
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:16,300
Brand, an uncompromising
priest, a man with such
776
00:41:16,307 --> 00:41:19,516
high moral standards,
that few people lived up
777
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,267
to his expectations.
778
00:41:21,312 --> 00:41:25,681
A man made lonely by his own
all-or-nothing philosophy.
779
00:41:26,942 --> 00:41:30,105
That was the McGoohan Brand.
780
00:41:30,112 --> 00:41:33,400
- [Catherine] Sometimes a role
comes along,
781
00:41:33,407 --> 00:41:36,695
and you have the writing,
you have the character,
782
00:41:36,702 --> 00:41:42,789
and you have the actor,
and it just fits perfectly,
783
00:41:43,250 --> 00:41:47,209
and it's almost as if the
material was written for you.
784
00:41:47,254 --> 00:41:51,293
And I think in this case, that was true.
785
00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:58,046
I was lucky enough to see it.
786
00:41:58,974 --> 00:42:01,306
I can hear him right now, actually.
787
00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:03,267
I can still hear his voice.
788
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:05,807
- [McGoohan] Jesus, give me light.
789
00:42:05,981 --> 00:42:10,145
- And I still remember him
striding across the stage.
790
00:42:11,946 --> 00:42:16,315
Calling out, to God, trying to
791
00:42:17,284 --> 00:42:20,242
because... trying to get an answer.
792
00:42:20,329 --> 00:42:23,117
- Unrepentant as she had lived,
793
00:42:23,123 --> 00:42:25,660
Is not this God's finger pointing?
794
00:42:25,668 --> 00:42:28,751
If I weaken now, I am damned tenfold!
795
00:42:28,754 --> 00:42:31,462
Henceforth, I shall fight unflinchingly
796
00:42:31,465 --> 00:42:33,547
for the victory of the
spirit over the weakness
797
00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:34,757
of the flesh!
798
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,421
The Lord has armed me with
the blade of His word!
799
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:39,679
Now I stand firm in my
will, now I dare, now I can,
800
00:42:39,682 --> 00:42:40,968
crush mountains!
801
00:42:41,016 --> 00:42:42,848
- Put your affairs in
order and leave this place.
802
00:42:42,851 --> 00:42:44,637
If the Earth were to tremble
I should still remain!
803
00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:47,228
- It was just so powerful.
804
00:42:47,398 --> 00:42:49,560
Peter Sallis was in it with him,
805
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:53,902
and he said that when he
was onstage with my father
806
00:42:53,904 --> 00:42:56,942
and he looked him in the eye,
807
00:42:57,074 --> 00:43:01,739
he realised that he may
never see a performance
808
00:43:01,745 --> 00:43:03,076
like this again.
809
00:43:05,958 --> 00:43:11,795
The fact that he was so
volatile, and he was...
810
00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:15,131
driven.
811
00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:16,883
He was direct.
812
00:43:18,053 --> 00:43:20,135
He had a purpose.
813
00:43:20,139 --> 00:43:23,131
The undeniable purpose,
814
00:43:24,351 --> 00:43:26,638
and a passion.
815
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:32,815
And I think all those
elements were very much
816
00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:34,772
in Number Six.
817
00:43:36,572 --> 00:43:37,858
- If you insist on living a dream,
818
00:43:37,865 --> 00:43:39,776
you may be taken for mad.
819
00:43:39,783 --> 00:43:41,114
- I like my dream.
820
00:43:41,118 --> 00:43:42,700
- Then you are mad.
821
00:43:42,703 --> 00:43:45,161
This is your world.
822
00:43:45,164 --> 00:43:47,280
I am your world.
823
00:43:50,294 --> 00:43:53,958
(playful keyboard music)
824
00:43:56,133 --> 00:43:58,795
- [Narrator] Our last
rendezvous, Patrick's Roadhouse,
825
00:43:58,844 --> 00:44:01,586
on the edge of the Pacific Ocean.
826
00:44:02,473 --> 00:44:05,716
I assumed that this was another
piece of McGoohan mischief.
827
00:44:05,726 --> 00:44:09,390
This was his place, his life, and his story.
828
00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:12,438
We talked again about
how this day should go.
829
00:44:12,441 --> 00:44:15,934
Inside, I noticed the joke menu.
830
00:44:16,362 --> 00:44:19,195
"Two choices: Take it, or leave it."
831
00:44:20,032 --> 00:44:24,868
Obviously, that was going to
be the Special of the Day.
832
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:27,453
We followed Patrick up
into the Hollywood Hills,
833
00:44:27,498 --> 00:44:30,081
high above the smog that
squatted on the city
834
00:44:30,084 --> 00:44:32,416
that was now his home.
835
00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,127
This is where he wanted
to relax and speak.
836
00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:37,667
This time, about the team that
helped him
837
00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:40,167
to realise his dream.
838
00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:43,177
(The Prisoner theme)
839
00:44:44,556 --> 00:44:45,637
- [Number Six] Where am 1?
840
00:44:46,892 --> 00:44:50,476
- [Number Two] In the Village.
841
00:44:50,562 --> 00:44:53,805
(sprightly symphonic music)
842
00:44:59,738 --> 00:45:03,481
(buzzing of door)
843
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:08,490
(sinister chiming)
844
00:45:08,539 --> 00:45:10,871
- [McGoohan] David Tomblin,
we'd become great friends
845
00:45:10,874 --> 00:45:14,162
on the Danger Man thing, he was
First Assistant Director on that.
846
00:45:14,169 --> 00:45:17,628
And then I needed him
closer to me when we started
847
00:45:17,631 --> 00:45:21,249
doing The Prisoner so
he, in fact, produced it
848
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:25,845
and co-supervised the scripts
with George Markstein,
849
00:45:25,931 --> 00:45:29,265
who was brought in as Script Supervisor.
850
00:45:29,268 --> 00:45:30,929
- [Number Six] Who are you?
851
00:45:30,978 --> 00:45:32,594
- [MacGoohan] Then, of course,
there was Bernard Williams,
852
00:45:32,646 --> 00:45:36,856
who was our Production Manager, and
an extraordinary young man
853
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,484
He has gone on to much
bigger and better things,
854
00:45:40,487 --> 00:45:43,070
I hope; he worked for Stanley
Kubrick for a long time.
855
00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:46,611
(unearthly, eerie music)
856
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:50,449
Our Art Director, Jack
Shampan, again, family.
857
00:45:52,916 --> 00:45:56,784
A man that you couldn't stop
working - whatever time
858
00:45:56,795 --> 00:45:58,832
you got to the studio, if you got
there at six o' clock,
859
00:45:58,839 --> 00:46:00,750
you thought you were early,
he'd been there
860
00:46:00,799 --> 00:46:03,086
half an hour before, hunting
around, trying to find
861
00:46:03,135 --> 00:46:05,593
little pieces to fit into this set or the
other set, to make them
862
00:46:05,637 --> 00:46:09,426
full of the character that he did so well.
863
00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,470
- [Narrator] In 1983 I was
lucky enough to interview
864
00:46:11,477 --> 00:46:14,265
Jack Shampan at Pinewood Studios.
865
00:46:14,271 --> 00:46:16,854
Along with Patrick's
most valued collaborator,
866
00:46:16,899 --> 00:46:18,435
David Tomblin.
867
00:46:18,442 --> 00:46:20,604
Two men central to the
conception and realisation
868
00:46:20,611 --> 00:46:22,193
of The Prisoner.
869
00:46:22,196 --> 00:46:24,233
Men Patrick had referred to
affectionately
870
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,855
as "the lads".
871
00:46:25,866 --> 00:46:29,484
- You and Pat had already
got a sort of a visual
872
00:46:29,578 --> 00:46:32,696
feeling about the place - not in detail -
873
00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:36,745
of what the sets should be,
to suit the...
874
00:46:36,877 --> 00:46:39,585
- It was influenced very heavily by
Portmeirion itself.
875
00:46:40,214 --> 00:46:43,502
- Yes, but Portmeirion, as
you know, is Mediterranean
876
00:46:43,550 --> 00:46:44,790
architecture.
- Mmhmm.
877
00:46:44,843 --> 00:46:47,710
Whereas when we came indoors,
878
00:46:47,805 --> 00:46:51,014
it was all way out, futuristic, almost
going back to the days
879
00:46:51,058 --> 00:46:53,766
of Fritz Lang, you know, and M,
you know;
880
00:46:54,144 --> 00:46:59,480
Everything was
very stylised, and symbolic.
881
00:46:59,733 --> 00:47:01,019
- Where can I make a call?
882
00:47:01,068 --> 00:47:02,775
- Well there's a phone
box around the corner.
883
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:04,106
- Thank you.
884
00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:11,534
(ominous music)
885
00:47:21,213 --> 00:47:23,454
(electronic buzzing)
886
00:47:23,465 --> 00:47:24,455
(high pitched buzz)
887
00:47:24,466 --> 00:47:25,877
- [Female operator] Number, please.
888
00:47:25,884 --> 00:47:27,750
- What exchange is this?
889
00:47:27,761 --> 00:47:28,876
- [Operator] Number, please.
890
00:47:28,887 --> 00:47:30,798
- I want to make a call--
- You could call locally,
891
00:47:30,889 --> 00:47:32,095
what is your number, sir?
892
00:47:33,141 --> 00:47:34,472
- Haven't got a number.
893
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,142
- [Operator] No number, no call.
894
00:47:36,228 --> 00:47:38,469
(low buzz of dead line)
895
00:47:40,357 --> 00:47:43,224
- I had never written before,
and Patrick
896
00:47:43,235 --> 00:47:47,194
came in one day and said,
"I've seen Lew, we've
897
00:47:47,197 --> 00:47:49,063
"got the money, we got the series."
898
00:47:49,074 --> 00:47:51,566
I said, "Oh, great...
what series is that?"
899
00:47:51,743 --> 00:47:53,404
He said, "Well, you know
what we talked about
900
00:47:53,412 --> 00:47:55,619
all those years", and so on
and so forth. So,
901
00:47:55,914 --> 00:47:58,872
he said "Write the first story."
902
00:47:58,917 --> 00:48:00,703
So I said, "I've never written before."
903
00:48:00,711 --> 00:48:02,201
He said, "Well, you'd better start writing."
904
00:48:02,254 --> 00:48:04,211
So I got hold of George Markstein,
905
00:48:04,339 --> 00:48:06,330
I dragged him in the
room, and we sat in there
906
00:48:06,425 --> 00:48:10,965
for some long time and we
came up with.. Arrival.
907
00:48:11,221 --> 00:48:14,384
I gave it to Patrick, who
read it, got very excited by it,
908
00:48:14,933 --> 00:48:17,516
and then he began to add touches.
909
00:48:17,644 --> 00:48:19,555
He began to stylise it, and
910
00:48:19,563 --> 00:48:23,477
it took on a really quite different look.
911
00:48:23,483 --> 00:48:27,272
And he was going sort of
over there,
912
00:48:27,279 --> 00:48:29,691
and I was trying to keep it
over here.
913
00:48:29,740 --> 00:48:31,071
And between the two forces,
914
00:48:31,074 --> 00:48:34,283
it ended up as it ended up, really.
915
00:48:34,328 --> 00:48:38,322
And then my uncle here,
put his fingers in the pie,
916
00:48:38,415 --> 00:48:42,158
and that's how it all...
- Made the thing look visual.
917
00:48:42,419 --> 00:48:45,332
- Being the man he is and
being the person I try to be,
918
00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:47,621
we put everything into it.
919
00:48:47,633 --> 00:48:50,125
All our time, in fact, we
worked seven days a week,
920
00:48:50,218 --> 00:48:53,961
16 hours a day, and tried
to make every episode
921
00:48:54,765 --> 00:48:57,382
really 1000 per cent.
922
00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:01,393
I think it took me personally six months
923
00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:03,979
to recover, before I felt human...
924
00:49:05,275 --> 00:49:08,643
and probably took Patrick longer.
925
00:49:08,654 --> 00:49:10,645
But Jack never had that problem,
‘cause he's
926
00:49:10,739 --> 00:49:15,028
- a very resilient young man.
- Yeah. (both chuckling)
927
00:49:19,122 --> 00:49:24,538
- He was conscious of
not to make himself feel...
928
00:49:27,130 --> 00:49:29,462
it was a one-man show.
929
00:49:29,549 --> 00:49:32,462
He did not want that.
930
00:49:33,929 --> 00:49:36,796
He loved it, he loved the process.
931
00:49:36,807 --> 00:49:38,639
He loved these people.
932
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,228
It was the best feeling
in the world and I know
933
00:49:44,231 --> 00:49:47,690
he couldn't wait to get in
and go to work.
934
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,152
He loved being on the set.
935
00:49:55,158 --> 00:49:59,447
He loved the team around him.
936
00:49:59,955 --> 00:50:05,416
He loved when it was good,
when it was really good,
937
00:50:05,961 --> 00:50:10,250
and you feel like all
your juices are going.
938
00:50:10,716 --> 00:50:11,922
He loved that.
939
00:50:15,762 --> 00:50:20,097
I think it was hard when
it stopped, actually.
940
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:20,931
Yeah.
941
00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:25,394
(wind howling)
942
00:50:26,565 --> 00:50:28,681
- [Narrator] A main
architect of the series
943
00:50:28,734 --> 00:50:31,271
was Script Editor, George
Markstein, who not only
944
00:50:31,278 --> 00:50:33,485
had a serious falling
out with McGoohan over
945
00:50:33,488 --> 00:50:37,152
its drift away from
espionage and into psychology,
946
00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:40,738
but would later claim that
the idea for The Prisoner was his.
947
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:44,447
But today, McGoohan was in
generous mode.
948
00:50:45,375 --> 00:50:46,206
Almost.
949
00:50:47,252 --> 00:50:51,371
- George brought writers
with a particular bent of mind.
950
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:55,712
They weren't Danger Man
writers, none of them were.
951
00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:00,008
They needed this sort
of stylistic, futuristic thing,
952
00:51:00,015 --> 00:51:02,097
and he knew a number
of them and brought them in,
953
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:03,807
and I'm grateful to him for that.
954
00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:09,105
First, they didn't jump
straight into the Prisoner mould
955
00:51:09,149 --> 00:51:11,732
and say, "Well, George has
talked to us, we're going
956
00:51:11,777 --> 00:51:15,270
"to write a script, a
Danger Man script, fine."
957
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,567
But a Prisoner script, a little different,
958
00:51:17,657 --> 00:51:19,443
so George had a technique
which worked extremely well.
959
00:51:19,451 --> 00:51:21,362
He'd take them out to the
best restaurants in London,
960
00:51:21,411 --> 00:51:23,698
wine and dine them, and
I don't know what he did,
961
00:51:23,872 --> 00:51:27,786
maybe he force-fed them
into a Prisoner concept
962
00:51:27,793 --> 00:51:31,036
but whatever it was, it worked.
963
00:51:31,463 --> 00:51:34,751
- What I think was maybe difficult,
964
00:51:34,758 --> 00:51:39,719
was that these directors
and writers coming in
965
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:42,888
from a couple of other shows
on television
966
00:51:42,891 --> 00:51:47,306
at the time, and they think,
"Oh, we're gonna do a spy,
967
00:51:47,312 --> 00:51:49,428
"this is a spy show,
968
00:51:49,439 --> 00:51:51,771
"we heard what the premise
is, it's a secret agent
969
00:51:51,817 --> 00:51:54,275
"who wants to retire.
970
00:51:54,277 --> 00:51:58,566
"And each episode is going to
revolve around that."
971
00:51:58,573 --> 00:52:03,363
So that was the premise,
the simple, simple premise.
972
00:52:03,995 --> 00:52:07,283
But then what happened after that,
973
00:52:07,290 --> 00:52:10,499
it was like a tree, the branches,
974
00:52:11,002 --> 00:52:14,211
it then stimulated all sorts
975
00:52:14,339 --> 00:52:16,922
of possibilities.
976
00:52:18,552 --> 00:52:24,013
And then what happened... the
series became something else.
977
00:52:26,601 --> 00:52:27,932
- [Narrator] Maybe we
could even talk about that
978
00:52:27,978 --> 00:52:32,017
"something else", now that
this was a very different Patrick.
979
00:52:32,524 --> 00:52:34,310
He seemed to have relaxed.
980
00:52:34,317 --> 00:52:36,354
Having received a brutal
crash course from him
981
00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:41,481
on how to interview, this
was also a very different me.
982
00:52:43,785 --> 00:52:46,777
- Of course, I always...
983
00:52:47,539 --> 00:52:50,076
always loved fairy tales,
I imagine most of us do,
984
00:52:50,083 --> 00:52:52,825
we like fantasy, our myths,
985
00:52:52,836 --> 00:53:00,084
our legends, and our belief that
the impossible is possible,
986
00:53:00,177 --> 00:53:03,545
that anything can happen within
the mind.
987
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,388
(Rover shrieks)
988
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:14,062
It had something of a fairy tale about it.
989
00:53:14,065 --> 00:53:18,309
More than that, to be absolutely specific,
990
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,402
it was an allegory.
991
00:53:20,405 --> 00:53:24,239
An allegory, I think, is
defined as a story in which
992
00:53:24,242 --> 00:53:28,657
things, people, places, happenings
993
00:53:28,705 --> 00:53:33,495
conceal a reason...
(muted siren wail)
994
00:53:34,669 --> 00:53:36,080
...or a symbolism.
995
00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:41,457
(ominous western music)
996
00:53:49,392 --> 00:53:52,054
One might say was it too outrageous
997
00:53:52,062 --> 00:53:55,646
to have a western story,
and a cowboy movie
998
00:53:55,649 --> 00:53:57,310
in the middle of it,
but I don't think so at all.
999
00:53:57,317 --> 00:53:59,854
Because after all, we introduced into it
1000
00:53:59,861 --> 00:54:02,228
cardboard cutouts of various characters
1001
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,527
and they came back from
their little meander into
1002
00:54:05,575 --> 00:54:09,193
the six guns and the
spurs of the cowboy story
1003
00:54:09,204 --> 00:54:12,287
back to their numbers in the Village.
1004
00:54:14,042 --> 00:54:15,874
- Interesting that he could separate fact
1005
00:54:15,877 --> 00:54:17,709
from fantasy so quickly.
1006
00:54:17,712 --> 00:54:23,674
- So fantasy, certainly. Fairy tales, yes.
Allegory, always.
1007
00:54:23,843 --> 00:54:25,299
- Why do you care?
1008
00:54:26,638 --> 00:54:29,676
- And I think it was
particularly crystallised
1009
00:54:29,683 --> 00:54:32,425
in what is my favourite episode,
which is
1010
00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:33,846
Once Upon a Time.
1011
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:37,221
A very fairy-tale time.
1012
00:54:37,232 --> 00:54:39,064
And because...
1013
00:54:39,067 --> 00:54:42,401
a little of that was autobiographical.
1014
00:54:42,404 --> 00:54:45,146
So I suppose I got that out of my system.
1015
00:54:45,156 --> 00:54:47,773
Whatever you call that, there's
a name for it I suppose,
1016
00:54:47,784 --> 00:54:49,024
but I got it out.
1017
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,616
- You will take six.
1018
00:54:52,205 --> 00:54:53,320
- Six?
1019
00:54:53,540 --> 00:54:55,076
- Of the best.
1020
00:54:55,125 --> 00:54:56,832
- I'm not guilty, sir.
1021
00:54:57,002 --> 00:54:57,582
-10.
1022
00:54:57,669 --> 00:54:58,909
- [Number Six] 12.
- What?
1023
00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:00,536
-12, sir.
1024
00:55:00,922 --> 00:55:01,912
So that I can remember.
1025
00:55:01,923 --> 00:55:05,041
(ominous organ music)
1026
00:55:06,344 --> 00:55:10,463
- [Narrator] Once Upon a Time
was also my favourite episode.
1027
00:55:10,473 --> 00:55:13,090
An Oedipal battle between
McGoohan's Number Six
1028
00:55:13,184 --> 00:55:15,050
and Leo McKern's Number Two.
1029
00:55:15,186 --> 00:55:17,427
A physical and mental struggle for
supremacy
1030
00:55:17,439 --> 00:55:20,852
all the way from the cradle
to the grave.
1031
00:55:22,068 --> 00:55:24,935
- The set was called the Embryo Room
1032
00:55:24,946 --> 00:55:26,607
for obvious reasons,
1033
00:55:27,824 --> 00:55:33,661
and it was this head-on clash
between two people.
1034
00:55:34,331 --> 00:55:36,743
It was do or die.
1035
00:55:37,751 --> 00:55:39,241
And Leo's rhythm's are so terrific,
1036
00:55:39,252 --> 00:55:42,745
you can throw out something...
a quite unexpected inflection,
1037
00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:44,417
and he will immediately pick it up,
1038
00:55:44,466 --> 00:55:46,207
and come back with a new one
of his own.
1039
00:55:46,259 --> 00:55:46,839
- Jacky.
1040
00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:47,716
- Shall have.
1041
00:55:47,802 --> 00:55:49,793
- A new master...
- And you build upon that.
1042
00:55:49,804 --> 00:55:50,760
- Master.
- Jacky.
1043
00:55:50,805 --> 00:55:51,294
- Master.
1044
00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:53,009
- Jacky.
- It becomes a sort of
1045
00:55:53,016 --> 00:55:54,427
rhythmical duet.
1046
00:55:54,476 --> 00:55:55,261
- Master.
- Jacky.
1047
00:55:55,310 --> 00:55:56,015
- Master.
- Mother.
1048
00:55:56,061 --> 00:55:58,143
- Master.
- Father.
1049
00:55:59,814 --> 00:56:02,476
- You knew that it was going
to be hammer and tongs,
1050
00:56:02,484 --> 00:56:04,851
I mean, we were dear friends,
1051
00:56:04,861 --> 00:56:09,071
but we couldn't be dear friends
in the midst of the show.
1052
00:56:09,282 --> 00:56:11,319
(screaming)
1053
00:56:11,326 --> 00:56:13,033
- (screaming)
- All right, boy.
1054
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:14,655
- All right, boy?
- Yes.
1055
00:56:15,955 --> 00:56:17,161
(groaning)
1056
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,621
- [Narrator] Patrick had
demanded that I should
1057
00:56:22,629 --> 00:56:24,540
look him straight in the eye.
1058
00:56:24,547 --> 00:56:25,787
So now I did.
1059
00:56:25,799 --> 00:56:28,086
I asked him about poor Leo McKern.
1060
00:56:28,093 --> 00:56:31,006
- Leo, on Once Upon a
Time, this is what you're
1061
00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:32,465
- trying to get out of me, isn't it?
- (quiet laughter)
1062
00:56:32,514 --> 00:56:35,882
Leo, on Once Upon a Time, the
pressure was... he'd just
1063
00:56:35,892 --> 00:56:38,634
come from a very demanding
role in the theatre,
1064
00:56:38,645 --> 00:56:41,763
and he was very tired when he came on,
1065
00:56:41,773 --> 00:56:44,310
he had this sort of... the
pressure was so much on him,
1066
00:56:44,317 --> 00:56:49,153
that he really couldn't
work for a couple of days.
1067
00:56:49,155 --> 00:56:50,862
- [Narrator] In some
circles, you might call that
1068
00:56:50,865 --> 00:56:53,778
a nervous collapse, or a
breakdown; something McGoohan
1069
00:56:53,785 --> 00:56:59,280
had been less evasive about
in his 1977 Canadian interview.
1070
00:57:00,542 --> 00:57:04,251
- Leo, one lunchtime,
1071
00:57:04,337 --> 00:57:08,422
went up to his dressing room,
and I went to see the rushes,
1072
00:57:09,217 --> 00:57:11,083
and I knew he was tired.
1073
00:57:11,136 --> 00:57:13,343
I went up to the dressing
room to tell him how
1074
00:57:13,346 --> 00:57:16,338
good I thought he'd been
in the rushes,
1075
00:57:16,349 --> 00:57:19,467
and he was curled in the
foetus position
1076
00:57:19,477 --> 00:57:21,844
on his couch there.
1077
00:57:21,896 --> 00:57:24,058
And he says, "Go away, go away."
1078
00:57:24,065 --> 00:57:26,557
He says, "I don't want to see you again.”
1079
00:57:26,568 --> 00:57:27,683
I said what are you talking about?
1080
00:57:27,777 --> 00:57:29,313
He says, "I've just ordered
two doctors," he said.
1081
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,527
"And they're coming
over soon as possible."
1082
00:57:31,573 --> 00:57:33,405
He says, "Go away."
1083
00:57:33,408 --> 00:57:35,069
He'd gone. He'd cracked.
1084
00:57:35,118 --> 00:57:36,404
Which is very interesting.
1085
00:57:36,411 --> 00:57:37,742
There was terrific pressure,
you see?
1086
00:57:37,745 --> 00:57:38,860
I know you.
1087
00:57:38,872 --> 00:57:39,862
- You're smart.
1088
00:57:39,873 --> 00:57:40,863
- In my mind.
1089
00:57:40,874 --> 00:57:41,864
- Yeah.
1090
00:57:41,875 --> 00:57:43,707
- In my mind, you're smart!
1091
00:57:43,877 --> 00:57:45,163
- Why did you resign?
1092
00:57:45,170 --> 00:57:46,126
- Yeah, you see?
1093
00:57:46,171 --> 00:57:47,127
- Why did you resign?
1094
00:57:47,172 --> 00:57:48,128
- You know who you are?
1095
00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:49,004
- Who am I?
1096
00:57:49,007 --> 00:57:49,838
- A fool?
1097
00:57:49,841 --> 00:57:50,672
- What?
- Yes.
1098
00:57:50,758 --> 00:57:51,964
- No, don't.
- Yes. An idiot.
1099
00:57:52,093 --> 00:57:54,050
No-- I'll kill you.
1100
00:57:54,304 --> 00:57:55,260
- I'll die.
1101
00:57:55,346 --> 00:57:56,461
- You're dead.
1102
00:57:58,725 --> 00:58:00,181
- [Narrator] This may
be the only surviving
1103
00:58:00,226 --> 00:58:03,218
material evidence of what
had happened offscreen.
1104
00:58:03,313 --> 00:58:06,146
A photo of McKern, signed
by Patrick, with love,
1105
00:58:06,149 --> 00:58:09,687
and some of those all
too familiar numbers.
1106
00:58:11,196 --> 00:58:13,233
Patrick's script for Once Upon a Time
1107
00:58:13,406 --> 00:58:14,396
was full of them.
1108
00:58:14,991 --> 00:58:17,483
How did he go about writing
for the series?
1109
00:58:17,535 --> 00:58:19,276
- The writing of the script?
1110
00:58:19,287 --> 00:58:20,903
Well, any of the scripts
that I wrote for that,
1111
00:58:20,914 --> 00:58:23,531
I write very fast, it
churns around up here
1112
00:58:24,209 --> 00:58:25,665
for a long time, then I just have to...
1113
00:58:25,710 --> 00:58:27,667
When I attack it,
1114
00:58:28,087 --> 00:58:32,206
I have to go through,
beat myself through to...
1115
00:58:32,217 --> 00:58:34,003
and then all of the three scripts
that I wrote
1116
00:58:34,010 --> 00:58:36,627
for The Prisoner, each
one was done in about
1117
00:58:36,638 --> 00:58:38,128
36 hours.
1118
00:58:38,139 --> 00:58:39,721
Once Upon a Time,
1119
00:58:39,724 --> 00:58:42,842
I think I wrote straight down.
1120
00:58:42,894 --> 00:58:44,976
I don't think I changed a word of that.
1121
00:58:44,979 --> 00:58:49,143
One, two, three, four, five.
1122
00:58:49,192 --> 00:58:50,853
Our property man, when he'd
looked at it, he said,
1123
00:58:50,860 --> 00:58:52,021
"What idiot wrote this?",
1124
00:58:52,028 --> 00:58:54,941
you see, because there were
four pages with nothing on it.
1125
00:58:55,114 --> 00:58:57,025
There was Leo, and there was me.
1126
00:58:57,033 --> 00:58:59,149
We used to write the character
of me P, as for Prisoner.
1127
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,618
It was "Leo, P, Leo, P..."
1128
00:59:01,621 --> 00:59:03,157
And for all these pages,
all they were saying was...
1129
00:59:03,164 --> 00:59:06,247
- Six, five, six,
five, six, five
1130
00:59:06,334 --> 00:59:07,415
- Six and one, six--
- Five.
1131
00:59:07,460 --> 00:59:08,746
- Six and one, six--
- Five.
1132
00:59:08,795 --> 00:59:11,002
- Six, six, six of one, and one of six,
1133
00:59:11,047 --> 00:59:12,708
six over one, into six.
1134
00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:14,665
- [Number Two] Six of one,
half dozen the other!
1135
00:59:14,717 --> 00:59:15,957
- Pop goes the weasel.
1136
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:18,627
"Six, six, six, six, six,
a one and a one,
1137
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,717
"and a dozen, and six, six..."
1138
00:59:20,765 --> 00:59:26,010
I don't blame the property master
for saying - Mickey O'Toole,
1139
00:59:26,062 --> 00:59:28,429
who is a wicked Irishman
with a great sense of humour -
1140
00:59:28,481 --> 00:59:32,475
he said "This rubbish here, whoever..?"
Because I didn't have my own name on it,
1141
00:59:32,569 --> 00:59:34,685
the name I had on it when
I sent it down onto the set,
1142
00:59:34,737 --> 00:59:36,148
because I knew I would be ridiculed,
1143
00:59:36,197 --> 00:59:40,065
was "Once Upon a Time by
Archibald Schwartz."
1144
00:59:40,159 --> 00:59:42,366
So Mickey says, "This
Archibald Schwartz..." (laughing)
1145
00:59:42,412 --> 00:59:45,154
-"...where did you find this guy?"
- (laughter)
1146
00:59:45,206 --> 00:59:48,119
I said, "Trust me, he's a good lad, Mickey",
1147
00:59:48,167 --> 00:59:50,408
I said, "Trust me, he'll
turn out to be all right."
1148
00:59:50,461 --> 00:59:53,078
Two, four, five!
1149
00:59:53,172 --> 00:59:54,378
- Six.
- Five!
1150
00:59:54,424 --> 00:59:55,789
- Six!
- Five!
1151
00:59:55,883 --> 00:59:57,590
Two, four, six.
1152
00:59:57,635 --> 00:59:59,876
(hushed) Five. That's me.
1153
00:59:59,971 --> 01:00:03,930
- Only Pat could've written
those particular scripts.
1154
01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:05,841
And I think they're very good.
1155
01:00:05,852 --> 01:00:09,390
Sad to say.
(laughter)
1156
01:00:09,397 --> 01:00:12,185
Yeah, he is a quite good writer, is Pat.
1157
01:00:12,191 --> 01:00:13,932
I wish I could act like he could write.
1158
01:00:16,571 --> 01:00:18,528
(tense music)
1159
01:00:18,573 --> 01:00:19,859
- [Narrator] Television writer
Lewis Greifer
1160
01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:21,982
knew McGoohan well, and
contributed a script
1161
01:00:21,993 --> 01:00:23,904
to the series.
1162
01:00:23,911 --> 01:00:26,152
When I interviewed him in 1983,
1163
01:00:26,164 --> 01:00:27,905
it seemed he knew about
McGoohan's increasing
1164
01:00:27,915 --> 01:00:30,282
obsession with those numbers.
1165
01:00:31,711 --> 01:00:33,372
- Well, first of all,
towards the end it was
1166
01:00:33,379 --> 01:00:35,461
totally dominated by Pat.
1167
01:00:37,050 --> 01:00:40,793
Directing, writing,
producing, his whole concept,
1168
01:00:40,803 --> 01:00:42,760
I mean, that is a rare phenomenon, because
1169
01:00:42,764 --> 01:00:46,302
most television series are teamwork.
1170
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:48,095
By now, Pat was the team.
1171
01:00:49,437 --> 01:00:51,599
He was taking the thing
very seriously, frankly.
1172
01:00:51,606 --> 01:00:55,725
Too seriously, as far as I was concerned.
1173
01:00:55,777 --> 01:00:58,610
And this Number One and
Number Two business was really
1174
01:00:58,613 --> 01:00:59,569
bugging him.
1175
01:01:01,032 --> 01:01:03,820
(eerie, unearthly music)
1176
01:01:03,826 --> 01:01:05,316
I had a personal relationship with Pat,
1177
01:01:05,328 --> 01:01:08,036
and he used to come around
here occasionally and say,
1178
01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:09,871
"You are Number Two."
1179
01:01:09,874 --> 01:01:10,955
(chuckling)
1180
01:01:10,958 --> 01:01:14,792
And my wife, I think was
also number something or other.
1181
01:01:20,385 --> 01:01:21,170
Number Six.
1182
01:01:21,219 --> 01:01:22,960
Why is Number Six a likeable character?
1183
01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:24,426
Because he is fighting.
1184
01:01:24,722 --> 01:01:27,931
He's not accepting the situation meekly,
1185
01:01:28,059 --> 01:01:31,222
he's not a docile person,
he's a man that says
1186
01:01:31,229 --> 01:01:32,685
something is going on!
1187
01:01:33,898 --> 01:01:36,765
And I'd like to know what it is!
1188
01:01:37,652 --> 01:01:42,863
Pat is very much his own person,
that's his characteristic.
1189
01:01:45,076 --> 01:01:48,785
Pat doesn't want to be lovable.
1190
01:01:48,788 --> 01:01:52,952
Pat's got no intention of
having people love him.
1191
01:01:52,959 --> 01:01:54,541
- [Narrator] But the
Patrick now sitting with us
1192
01:01:54,544 --> 01:01:58,082
on that hill above LA
was lovable, generous,
1193
01:01:58,131 --> 01:01:59,747
and surprisingly honest.
1194
01:01:59,757 --> 01:02:02,215
Time to ask him about Number One.
1195
01:02:02,260 --> 01:02:04,968
- Yes, I know exactly
what you mean by that,
1196
01:02:05,012 --> 01:02:07,219
who was going to be Number One?
1197
01:02:07,223 --> 01:02:09,055
All right, well, I'll level with you on that.
1198
01:02:09,183 --> 01:02:10,844
Nobody knew that.
1199
01:02:10,935 --> 01:02:12,221
Nobody knew that.
1200
01:02:13,312 --> 01:02:16,270
First person to discover
that was after I'd dragged
1201
01:02:16,274 --> 01:02:18,857
myself out of the office
and it was complete
1202
01:02:18,860 --> 01:02:22,979
after its 36-hours, childbirth thing,
you know,
1203
01:02:23,030 --> 01:02:24,316
a lot of labour...
1204
01:02:25,283 --> 01:02:28,241
We had so much that we
had the scripts run off
1205
01:02:28,244 --> 01:02:30,531
very quickly, again, another thing,
so I got a copy
1206
01:02:30,580 --> 01:02:34,244
of this thing, and before
I caught up a couple of hours'
1207
01:02:34,250 --> 01:02:37,368
sleep before working on Monday morning,
1208
01:02:37,420 --> 01:02:40,833
I sat with David, and we're
having some tea or something
1209
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,673
someplace, some tea room or something.
1210
01:02:43,676 --> 01:02:46,384
I said, you'd better read this.
1211
01:02:46,429 --> 01:02:48,011
And gave it to him.
1212
01:02:49,223 --> 01:02:53,137
And I just sat at another
table and sipped tea.
1213
01:02:54,854 --> 01:02:58,848
Until he'd finished, then
he gave it back to me.
1214
01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:01,232
And he said I thought it
might be you in the end.
1215
01:03:01,319 --> 01:03:03,435
(snorts with laughter)
1216
01:03:03,446 --> 01:03:04,902
‘Cause there's nowhere else to go!
1217
01:03:04,906 --> 01:03:07,068
Who could it be?
1218
01:03:07,074 --> 01:03:08,235
You know?
1219
01:03:08,284 --> 01:03:10,696
I wasn't going ring up
Sean, or Roger, or any
1220
01:03:10,745 --> 01:03:13,157
of these fellas, I mean,
you know, who could it be?
1221
01:03:13,247 --> 01:03:14,863
I don't know who it could be.
1222
01:03:14,957 --> 01:03:17,870
(digital chirping)
1223
01:03:20,755 --> 01:03:23,793
- [Narrator] Back in February
1968, this is the moment
1224
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,258
I'd waited 17 weeks for...
1225
01:03:27,678 --> 01:03:30,340
along with 17 million other people.
1226
01:03:30,348 --> 01:03:33,261
(digital chirping)
1227
01:03:39,232 --> 01:03:42,099
- 1 will not be pushed,
filed, stamped, indexed,
1228
01:03:42,109 --> 01:03:44,771
briefed, debriefed, or numbered.
1229
01:03:45,738 --> 01:03:48,696
I will not be pushed,
filed, stamped, indexed,
1230
01:03:48,699 --> 01:03:51,361
briefed, debriefed, or numbered.
1231
01:03:52,495 --> 01:03:54,361
My life is my own.
1232
01:03:54,413 --> 01:03:58,156
I, 1,1, 1,1, I... (thunderous crashing)
1233
01:04:01,879 --> 01:04:05,543
(rising in pitch and speed)
LLLLLLL
1234
01:04:05,967 --> 01:04:10,006
LLLLLLLL
(breaking into maniacal laughter)
1235
01:04:10,096 --> 01:04:12,758
- Personally, I saw that
coming quite a long way away.
1236
01:04:12,807 --> 01:04:16,220
I could see that he was really
moving in that direction,
1237
01:04:16,227 --> 01:04:21,518
he really was getting very
paranoid towards the end.
1238
01:04:21,524 --> 01:04:26,815
- [Man] We thought you would
feel happier as yourself.
1239
01:04:27,363 --> 01:04:30,572
- The inevitability of his thinking was
1240
01:04:31,576 --> 01:04:34,068
the schizophrenic answer, you know,
1241
01:04:34,078 --> 01:04:36,490
Number One and Number Six
are going to be the same.
1242
01:04:36,539 --> 01:04:39,782
That was the pressure the
series was going towards.
1243
01:04:39,792 --> 01:04:41,783
Again, there was nobody
wrote down things on the
1244
01:04:41,794 --> 01:04:44,707
piece of paper, I think it was Pat.
1245
01:04:45,798 --> 01:04:49,086
Actually moving in that
direction, correctly.
1246
01:04:49,135 --> 01:04:50,375
Correctly.
1247
01:04:50,386 --> 01:04:52,218
And by that time, toward
the end of the series,
1248
01:04:52,221 --> 01:04:53,882
it was Pat's series, totally,
1249
01:04:53,890 --> 01:04:55,631
I mean he had his own concept.
1250
01:04:55,641 --> 01:05:00,181
And yes, I wasn't surprised,
because, as a matter
1251
01:05:00,187 --> 01:05:02,975
of fact, quite a long
way from that, I thought
1252
01:05:02,982 --> 01:05:05,815
to myself, when are we
going to get...
1253
01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:07,396
"Number One is me?"
1254
01:05:07,820 --> 01:05:10,528
(phone ringing)
1255
01:05:11,574 --> 01:05:12,405
Oh.
1256
01:05:15,244 --> 01:05:16,780
Hello?
1257
01:05:16,787 --> 01:05:18,027
- What is the most evil thing on Earth?
1258
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:18,870
Is it...
1259
01:05:20,416 --> 01:05:24,455
Is it jealously, is it
hate, is it revenge,
1260
01:05:24,462 --> 01:05:25,748
is it the bomb?
1261
01:05:26,631 --> 01:05:27,837
What is it?
1262
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,377
When one really searches,
it's only one thing,
1263
01:05:30,426 --> 01:05:33,088
it's the evil part of oneself.
1264
01:05:34,096 --> 01:05:38,636
The most evil thing that
I could put in there,
1265
01:05:39,226 --> 01:05:42,514
behind those masks, first
of all the black and white mask,
1266
01:05:42,563 --> 01:05:44,975
then the mask of the ape,
1267
01:05:45,524 --> 01:05:48,937
and behind that the grinning,
evil face,
1268
01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,688
I hope, of myself, just
for a split second,
1269
01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:54,606
and then you see it once more,
just for a split second,
1270
01:05:54,617 --> 01:05:57,484
and I can't blame audiences
saying I wonder what's
1271
01:05:57,495 --> 01:05:59,736
happening, what's going on?
1272
01:06:03,417 --> 01:06:06,284
If that was a cheat, then
the whole thing's a cheat.
1273
01:06:06,295 --> 01:06:08,627
Because he could've got out.
1274
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:12,335
I'd be very, very angry and disappointed
1275
01:06:12,343 --> 01:06:14,710
if they hadn't watched,
if they hadn't jammed
1276
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,884
the switchboards at ATV,
I would've been outraged.
1277
01:06:18,975 --> 01:06:22,684
I would've slunk around for years
with my tail between my legs,
1278
01:06:22,770 --> 01:06:25,307
instead of which, it was just
terrific; loved it.
1279
01:06:25,481 --> 01:06:27,017
And if I can do that
again, I'll do it again.
1280
01:06:27,024 --> 01:06:28,355
God love 'em, watch it.
1281
01:06:28,359 --> 01:06:30,896
Millions of them, and be outraged.
1282
01:06:31,070 --> 01:06:32,560
As long as people feel something.
1283
01:06:32,571 --> 01:06:35,233
That's the great thing. It's
when they're walking around
1284
01:06:35,241 --> 01:06:37,608
not thinking, and not
feeling, that's tough,
1285
01:06:37,660 --> 01:06:40,368
that's where all the
dangerous stuff is, ‘cause when
1286
01:06:40,371 --> 01:06:42,328
you get a mob like that,
you can turn them into
1287
01:06:42,373 --> 01:06:44,410
the sort of gang that Hitler had.
1288
01:06:44,458 --> 01:06:45,789
We don't want that.
1289
01:06:45,793 --> 01:06:47,375
We want people to say,
"Hey, now wait a minute,
1290
01:06:47,378 --> 01:06:48,789
"you don't do that to me!
1291
01:06:48,796 --> 01:06:52,164
"I'm gonna call Lord Grade about that."
1292
01:06:52,174 --> 01:06:55,633
- Well, it wasn't very popular,
1293
01:06:56,303 --> 01:07:03,425
and the... you know, the switchboard
at the network
1294
01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:06,307
just went crazy, crazy, crazy.
1295
01:07:07,273 --> 01:07:10,857
But in our household,
1296
01:07:10,985 --> 01:07:16,480
I just think that my father,
he felt...
1297
01:07:16,866 --> 01:07:21,485
a little self-conscious, and probably
that he shouldn't go
1298
01:07:21,579 --> 01:07:24,196
walking down the street for
a couple of days.
1299
01:07:24,331 --> 01:07:27,619
People were expecting
an answer,
1300
01:07:27,668 --> 01:07:30,000
and they were expecting a conclusion.
1301
01:07:30,046 --> 01:07:35,291
And they were expecting to
see a face, for Number One.
1302
01:07:35,593 --> 01:07:38,255
Well, that was never gonna happen.
1303
01:07:38,345 --> 01:07:39,710
Never, never gonna happen.
1304
01:07:39,722 --> 01:07:44,216
And I have to say that
I thought he was brave,
1305
01:07:44,226 --> 01:07:47,469
and courageous, because he went for it.
1306
01:07:48,439 --> 01:07:52,933
And he went for an ending
that has longevity.
1307
01:07:52,943 --> 01:07:57,232
- I wanted to have controversy,
argument.
1308
01:07:57,239 --> 01:07:59,606
Fights, discussions.
1309
01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:02,442
People in anger, waving fists
in my face,
1310
01:08:02,495 --> 01:08:03,155
saying "How dare you?"
1311
01:08:03,245 --> 01:08:05,862
"Why don't you do more secret
agents that we can understand?"
1312
01:08:06,082 --> 01:08:08,198
I was delighted with
that reaction, I think
1313
01:08:08,209 --> 01:08:09,950
it's a very good one.
1314
01:08:12,254 --> 01:08:14,245
I think I was fortunate ever to
1315
01:08:14,465 --> 01:08:18,208
get out of England alive.
(discordant music)
1316
01:08:18,260 --> 01:08:19,967
I imagine a lot of people watched the last
1317
01:08:19,970 --> 01:08:21,586
episode and expected
a sort of conventional
1318
01:08:21,597 --> 01:08:25,886
end, and the evil person
personified as the Number One,
1319
01:08:25,935 --> 01:08:28,017
that we'd never seen,
this mystery character
1320
01:08:28,020 --> 01:08:30,352
that brooded over everything.
1321
01:08:30,356 --> 01:08:32,973
What was he gonna be like,
what was he, a Jekyll,
1322
01:08:33,067 --> 01:08:35,650
no, not a Jekyll-Hyde, no, I
think they expected
1323
01:08:35,694 --> 01:08:40,404
more a sort of James Bond villain
at the end.
1324
01:08:40,533 --> 01:08:44,447
And I think they felt
that they'd been robbed
1325
01:08:44,620 --> 01:08:46,110
with what they got.
1326
01:08:46,205 --> 01:08:47,695
A lot did.
1327
01:08:47,706 --> 01:08:49,572
Though I would argue against that.
1328
01:08:49,583 --> 01:08:51,995
I don't think they were
robbed, because going back
1329
01:08:52,002 --> 01:08:53,333
to the allegory,
1330
01:08:54,922 --> 01:08:56,663
which is what it was,
1331
01:08:57,758 --> 01:09:01,217
so you have to have an
allegorical ending.
1332
01:09:02,555 --> 01:09:04,922
I mean, you can't have Sean Connery
1333
01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:08,008
looking at himself at the end, saying
"I'm gonna kill you, mate."
1334
01:09:08,060 --> 01:09:09,801
(slips into Cockney accent)
You know, you can't do that.
1335
01:09:09,854 --> 01:09:11,310
It don't work for James Bond.
1336
01:09:11,355 --> 01:09:14,438
There's not a lotta mystery in
James Bond.
1337
01:09:14,483 --> 01:09:16,565
- I always wanted to know
what was going to happen
1338
01:09:16,652 --> 01:09:18,188
with the balloon.
1339
01:09:18,571 --> 01:09:21,984
But... (chuckling)
nobody could tell me.
1340
01:09:22,658 --> 01:09:25,150
(whining noise; echoing jolt)
1341
01:09:25,369 --> 01:09:28,703
- [Narrator] Rover the
balloon died in Fall Out.
1342
01:09:28,706 --> 01:09:30,617
The series had come a
long way since the filming
1343
01:09:30,624 --> 01:09:34,242
of Arrival in Portmeirion,
18 months before.
1344
01:09:34,253 --> 01:09:37,996
We had come a long way too,
today without any lights.
1345
01:09:38,007 --> 01:09:40,044
Just enough time to ask
Patrick about The Prisoner's
1346
01:09:40,050 --> 01:09:42,587
continuing popularity, even though
by now,
1347
01:09:42,595 --> 01:09:44,882
he had become little
more than a silhouette
1348
01:09:44,889 --> 01:09:47,802
against the darkening LA skyline.
1349
01:09:47,808 --> 01:09:49,845
- Incredibly long life,
well, you see there was
1350
01:09:49,894 --> 01:09:52,727
a thing that I'd always felt,
1351
01:09:52,813 --> 01:09:55,225
that it was sort of designed for 1984.
1352
01:09:55,316 --> 01:09:58,559
And it's ironic in some
ways that it's running
1353
01:09:58,569 --> 01:10:00,401
in England again.
1354
01:10:00,404 --> 01:10:06,400
The tail end of '83, and
I believe into '84. You know,
1355
01:10:06,493 --> 01:10:09,281
sort of Two Thousand-and-something,
I don't know, maybe
1356
01:10:09,288 --> 01:10:13,577
there'll be one or two people who
might want to see it then.
1357
01:10:13,584 --> 01:10:17,202
(The Prisoner theme music)
1358
01:10:20,132 --> 01:10:23,215
But the thing one must never do,
which is, in some way -
1359
01:10:23,260 --> 01:10:24,341
I'll say this -
1360
01:10:25,054 --> 01:10:30,094
in some ways, maybe I
shouldn't be doing this,
1361
01:10:30,434 --> 01:10:35,804
talking to you, and to the people
who are going to view it,
1362
01:10:35,898 --> 01:10:38,481
and hear it; to explain The Prisoner.
1363
01:10:38,567 --> 01:10:43,437
because in myself, I am still
getting new interpretations,
1364
01:10:43,489 --> 01:10:48,234
and I feel fortunate that in parts of it,
1365
01:10:48,369 --> 01:10:50,110
I hit lucky.
1366
01:10:50,621 --> 01:10:51,611
Be seeing you.
1367
01:10:51,664 --> 01:10:55,783
Those ideas, I hope, one can
play with them forever.
1368
01:10:55,876 --> 01:10:59,494
The sky's the limit... isn't it?
1369
01:11:00,756 --> 01:11:04,124
I think the sky is the limit.
1370
01:11:04,718 --> 01:11:06,709
Be seeing you.
1371
01:11:07,596 --> 01:11:09,132
I hope.
1372
01:11:20,109 --> 01:11:23,227
(music: Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star)
[Narrator] End of the day,
1373
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:27,689
end of our final interview,
and the end of my trip.
1374
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:30,442
Patrick seemed pleased
with this last performance,
1375
01:11:30,494 --> 01:11:33,452
or maybe he was just relieved
that it was all over.
1376
01:11:33,497 --> 01:11:34,453
For now.
1377
01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:38,708
As a fan turned rookie interviewer,
1378
01:11:38,711 --> 01:11:42,249
I was happy not to be returning
to London empty-handed.
1379
01:11:42,256 --> 01:11:45,123
But mostly, I was happy
because I'd actually met
1380
01:11:45,217 --> 01:11:46,799
Number Six....
1381
01:11:46,844 --> 01:11:49,757
Once Upon a Time.
1382
01:11:54,935 --> 01:11:56,596
We later flew to Paris to show Patrick
1383
01:11:56,603 --> 01:11:58,219
a cut of the documentary.
1384
01:11:58,564 --> 01:12:01,556
He hated it so much that he yelled at us
1385
01:12:01,608 --> 01:12:04,942
the entire day, in various
cafes across the city.
1386
01:12:05,988 --> 01:12:09,322
When he went back to LA, he
made his own documentary,
1387
01:12:09,325 --> 01:12:12,113
sent it to us in London,
and asked for that to be
1388
01:12:12,119 --> 01:12:13,280
shown instead.
1389
01:12:14,163 --> 01:12:16,245
The original of that film has been lost,
1390
01:12:16,498 --> 01:12:17,909
maybe forever.
1391
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,708
What you're about to see
are pieces of a poor pirated
1392
01:12:20,794 --> 01:12:24,162
copy filmed off a television
screen in Portmeirion.
1393
01:12:24,256 --> 01:12:27,123
# How many insects find their home
1394
01:12:27,259 --> 01:12:31,298
# In an English country garden? #
1395
01:12:31,388 --> 01:12:35,052
- Patrick's riposte to our film was
typically mischievous.
1396
01:12:35,100 --> 01:12:36,886
He went to all the places we had been.
1397
01:12:37,019 --> 01:12:40,228
Santa Monica Beach, The Huntley Hotel.
1398
01:12:40,773 --> 01:12:44,812
He'd added music - Nana Mouskouri
singing English folk songs -
1399
01:12:44,902 --> 01:12:47,769
and had his daughter Anne
ask him the questions.
1400
01:12:52,201 --> 01:12:54,784
- "Be seeing you" has all
sorts of connotations.
1401
01:12:54,828 --> 01:12:59,413
I mean, it can be a sort of "be seeing
a friend", a girlfriend, a boyfriend,
1402
01:12:59,500 --> 01:13:03,038
"Be seeing you" with expectation of
pleasant times ahead.
1403
01:13:03,295 --> 01:13:07,038
And it can be "seeing you", long
journey, somebody going away.
1404
01:13:07,299 --> 01:13:09,586
And it can be a threat,
"be seeing you".
1405
01:13:09,718 --> 01:13:12,005
And all sorts of things.
1406
01:13:12,012 --> 01:13:14,470
But mainly the thing about it here,
1407
01:13:14,515 --> 01:13:17,052
in the context of The Prisoner, was that
1408
01:13:17,059 --> 01:13:20,552
it was, "Be seeing you," meaning
that there was this
1409
01:13:20,646 --> 01:13:22,762
constant surveillance,
1410
01:13:22,898 --> 01:13:26,562
that when you were asleep, when you
were having your dreams,
1411
01:13:26,568 --> 01:13:29,026
someone was picking your
dreams in your sleep.
1412
01:13:29,405 --> 01:13:32,648
(soft music)
1413
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:38,824
# Early one morning just
as the sun was rising
1414
01:13:38,831 --> 01:13:44,417
# I heard a young maid
sing in the valley below
1415
01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:50,211
# Oh, don't deceive me,
oh, never leave me
1416
01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:54,635
# How could you use a poor maiden so? #
1417
01:13:54,638 --> 01:13:56,049
- Did I have any fights in The Prisoner?
1418
01:13:56,140 --> 01:13:57,255
Oh, yes.
1419
01:13:57,599 --> 01:14:01,308
We had a couple of humdingers,
and I think
1420
01:14:01,311 --> 01:14:03,473
it's always a good idea to have,
1421
01:14:03,480 --> 01:14:04,970
if you're gonna have a
scrap, have a big one.
1422
01:14:04,982 --> 01:14:07,724
And get it out of the way.
1423
01:14:07,734 --> 01:14:10,692
So that everyone knows
we're all on the same boat.
1424
01:14:10,696 --> 01:14:12,733
Because if the fight goes the
wrong way...
1425
01:14:12,739 --> 01:14:14,946
verbal of course, all verbal...
1426
01:14:15,075 --> 01:14:18,318
then it's time for that person to say,
"I'm leaving by another boat."
1427
01:14:18,328 --> 01:14:20,444
But if they're coming on your boat,
1428
01:14:20,497 --> 01:14:23,239
there are certain things that've
got to be observed.
1429
01:14:23,250 --> 01:14:25,366
# Oh, don't deceive me
1430
01:14:25,419 --> 01:14:28,127
# Oh, never leave me
1431
01:14:28,547 --> 01:14:35,590
# How could you use a poor maiden so? #
1432
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:39,218
- [Narrator] Needless to say,
Patrick's film didn't go out
1433
01:14:39,224 --> 01:14:42,762
on Channel 4 on January 16th, 1984.
1434
01:14:42,811 --> 01:14:43,767
Ours did.
1435
01:14:43,812 --> 01:14:46,725
(Channel 4 theme)
1436
01:14:49,485 --> 01:14:51,852
- [Announcer] Now on
Four, and only on Four,
1437
01:14:51,862 --> 01:14:53,773
the answers to the
questions you may have been
1438
01:14:53,780 --> 01:14:56,943
asking since the
beginning of The Prisoner.
1439
01:14:56,950 --> 01:15:00,409
(upbeat '80s synth music)
1440
01:15:04,708 --> 01:15:08,576
- [Narrator] Complete with
obligatory '80s synth music,
1441
01:15:08,587 --> 01:15:10,373
and those primitive-looking
video effects
1442
01:15:10,422 --> 01:15:13,881
of the time, Six Into One,
The Prisoner File
1443
01:15:13,884 --> 01:15:17,002
was almost as hard to
watch then as it is now.
1444
01:15:17,971 --> 01:15:18,836
So let's not.
1445
01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:21,172
- [Voiceover] Wipe it. Start again.
1446
01:15:24,645 --> 01:15:28,138
- [Narrator] 2017, and a
rare opportunity
1447
01:15:28,148 --> 01:15:30,480
to try and put things right.
1448
01:15:30,484 --> 01:15:33,101
The chance to revisit familiar places,
1449
01:15:33,111 --> 01:15:35,773
old interviews, and distant memories.
1450
01:15:35,781 --> 01:15:37,897
The chance to make a new film,
1451
01:15:37,908 --> 01:15:40,696
the film that Patrick McGoohan deserves.
1452
01:15:40,702 --> 01:15:43,785
(ominous percussion)
1453
01:15:45,707 --> 01:15:48,995
(helicopter whine)
1454
01:15:50,879 --> 01:15:53,792
Unfortunately, there is no escape.
1455
01:15:53,799 --> 01:15:55,915
Certainly not from the past.
1456
01:15:55,926 --> 01:15:57,837
We've just seen that.
1457
01:15:57,844 --> 01:16:00,711
But there's also no escaping your destiny.
1458
01:16:00,722 --> 01:16:01,962
Not here.
1459
01:16:02,015 --> 01:16:04,222
Not in the Village.
1460
01:16:04,226 --> 01:16:08,390
(ominous music and engine wailing)
1461
01:16:20,701 --> 01:16:23,614
And so it begins all over again.
1462
01:16:24,580 --> 01:16:28,699
There's no escaping the questions
that you ask of yourself.
1463
01:16:28,750 --> 01:16:30,991
- [Interviewer]
Did the Prisoner escape?
1464
01:16:31,169 --> 01:16:35,003
- [McGoohan]
No, the Prisoner never escapes.
1465
01:16:35,007 --> 01:16:36,793
I mean, you are a prisoner of something.
1466
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,259
Everyone is a prisoner of something.
1467
01:16:40,262 --> 01:16:44,722
You escape when you're
released, I suppose, by death.
1468
01:16:44,725 --> 01:16:47,638
That's the final release, and as
to how and where you go,
1469
01:16:47,644 --> 01:16:49,351
and what they're after
depends on what sort
1470
01:16:49,354 --> 01:16:50,765
of prisoner you were.
1471
01:16:50,772 --> 01:16:54,891
You could be a prisoner and
free, at least on parole.
1472
01:16:56,361 --> 01:16:59,149
- [Interviewer] It's still rattling
around in the mind, isn't it?
1473
01:16:59,156 --> 01:17:00,772
- [McGoohan]
What, the concept?
1474
01:17:00,782 --> 01:17:03,945
Of course, yes.
(sound of bars slamming shut)
1475
01:17:05,495 --> 01:17:08,453
(The Prisoner theme music)
114423
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